Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin car colors Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 09:23:17 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell On 31 May, ODyard@aol.com wrote: > I am repainting an offset cupola and a center cupola N6b converted from the > Model Power cheapie. I model 1946. One will be painted with for the Renovo > Division and one for the E&A Division. > What is the correct paint to simulate freight car color of the period? I use > Pollyscale and Modelflex. My guess is to use either Modelflex light Tuscan > ore Pollyscale oxide red but I am not sure. A good mix that I'm using is the ModelFlex light tuscan with a drop or three of orange. I used their GN orange only because I had it. This matches quite closely the color on the Red Caboose X29, which is pretty close to correct as far as I've been able to tell. Did I hedge that enough? :-) Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] FW: New Alco Locomotives Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:47:02 -0400 THIS IS NOT NEW NEWS. ---------- > From: Alan Buchan > To: PRR Talk > Subject: [PRR] FW: New Alco Locomotives > Date: Saturday, May 29, 1999 7:31 PM > > > > Okay all you ALCo fans....read on > > New Alcos to be manufactured by....FM! > > Date: Friday, May 28, 1999 10:01 AM > Subject: New Alco Locomotives > > > >Those that thought there should have been more development of the > >ALCO/MLW locomotives take heart. Hume Kading of Railway > >Preservation News Reports: > > > >What caught my attention was that FM has acquired the rights to the ALCo > >251 diesel engine, and now offers new 251s as well as OEM parts and > >service. But, what really got me going was a link on the ALCo engine page > to the ALCo Locomotive Company page! Following that link takes you to a > page that is under construction, but that very much implies there will be > new ALCo diesel locomotives being built. > > > I sent an e-mail to the site specifically asking that question and > >this is the response I got: > > > > FM obtained the manufacturing license to manufacture the ALCO > >engine from General Electric Transportation System, GETS in 1994 and > >moved the Montreal (MLW) facility assets to our factory in Beloit, > >Wisconsin. FM has recently purchased the entire locomotive product line. > >NREC, National Railway Equipment Corporation of southern Illinois > >will manufacture the chassis and main equipment. Globe > >Turbocharger of Nevada will manufacture the ALCO turbochargers. FM will > >manufacture new or remanufacture veteran ALCO diesel engines to new > >FM/ALCO engine specifications. The FM website has a link to our > >FM/ALCO website where you will find more information about that product > line. > > > > Again, the ALCo Locomotive Company page is still under > >construction. But, there it is, there will soon be new ALCos. > > >The web link is: http://www.alcoengine.com > > > >Gary > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Cooper Subject: [PRR] Trip Report - NYC to Princeton Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:04:54 -0700 On my trip back east this weekend, I was able to ride Ex-PRR from NYC to Princeton Jct, and I thought a trip report might be of interrest to some. Forgive me if some of this is old news, as I have not been over this section in about 8 or 10 years. ABS is indeed gone between A tower and Bergen. Rusty brown relay huts appear about every 0.1 mile or so between Bergen and the West River tunnels. A new station is being built between Bergen and Portal. Just west of Bergen, they are installing a new interlocking called Alliance where they will go to 4 tracks. Currently the new track is just unaligned rail on concrete ties with no ballast. Looks like they are building a parking lot on top of the railroad, so it really feels like a snow shed. Go back to 2 tracks to cross the river at Portal. Didn't catch the name but I think it started with an "L". Crossovers at Portal are gone, replaced by high speed crossovers just a little to the west at Swift. (This is old news I'm sure) A few three-light position light signals still survive in this area. Hudson tower still standing Dock tower still standing. Very little has changed here. All signals in Newark station appear to still be 3 light position Hunter tower has been razed and the connection with the old LVRR been reworked. I think most of the switches on the main line have been removed. I think an east bound train can go 1-2 and a west bound can go 3-4, and thats all. A new interlocking has been installed just east of hunter. New crossovers have been added just to the east of Hunter to allow eastbound trains from the LVRR to get from 4 over to 2. They are installing a new airport station between Hunter and Lane. Tracks 5 and 0 west of Hunter have been upgraded to concrete ties as far as this new station. Unclear whether 5 and 0 would connect back with the main to the west. Footings for the eastbound platform is in place. Westbound platform is already in place. Looks like they will connect to airport with a monorail that is already in place between terminals A,B,C and parking lots. New signal bridge is replacing automatics between Hunter and Lane. Signals with bags over them are already in place. Looks like they are installing 261 on all four tracks. Any fans of the Chicago and Eastern Illinois Railroad should check out the pseudo-junkyard immediately west of the Newark Airport Days' Inn Hotel on Rt1. A tractor trailer is sitting there clearly labelled as such. Lane tower has been razed. Looks like tracks 2,3,4 are getting new EB home signals. Signal LB1 at WA is still in place. Hard to tell whether still operational. Elmora has been razed. I think this was done quite some time ago. A small concrete hut, white with grey trim stands in its place. A very distinctive PRR keystone appears above the door. 6 EB home signals. Quite a bit of Conrail activity in the yards west of Linden station. Saw blue unit labelled PRR 6021 in black letterrs on white background just under the cab window. Union tower still standing. Signals right in front of the tower still 3-light position. West end of union is CPL. Lincoln tower still standing. Quite a bit of conrail activity in the yard at Edison. Entrances to mainline still protected by pedistal signals, but intermediate pedistal signals gone. Crossover on main at west end of yard is still there. County tower still standing. Midway tower still standing. Nassau tower still standing. It appears that Amtrak has removed the marker lights on its automatic signals atleast between New Brunswick and Princeton Jct, so that they don't display stop and proceed. Welded rail has been installed from Princeton Jct to Princeton. What a radical improvement. Movements of note: I saw two AEM7 pulling coaches and several baggage cars EB on 3 through P'tonJct. One minute later, Metroliner EB on 2. Our NJT local caught both of them stopped at Midway. Interesting choice of dispatching I must say. The metroliner finally caught up with us again on 2 near County as another metroliner screamed west on 3 and NJT went west on 4. Almost a four-way meet. Three for sure. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: [PRR] OS Report: CIR201 Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 16:51:07 -0400 News from The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP... CIR201, the Ringling Bros. Barnum & Bailey CIRCUS TRAIN, has just passed The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP (across the Beaver River from New Brighton, PA), headed WB on Conrail/NS. The remainder of the train's original published schedule is as follows: >LV Conway CIR201 1745 ET Tue 01-Jun >AR Crestline-NS CIR201 0001 ET Wed 02-Jun >LV Crestline-CSX CIR201 0015 ET Wed 02-Jun >AR Buckeye CIR201 0345 ET Wed 02-Jun >LV Buckeye CIR201 0400 ET Wed 02-Jun >AR Cincinnati-CSX CIR201 1000 ET Wed 02-Jun You will probably have to make the necessary adjustments to the above times. The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP is a railfan B&B, similar to The Station Inn/Cresson, PA, located 15 minutes west of Conway Yard in Fallston, PA. Please e-mail me off-list for printed materials and information. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 19:47:57 -0400 From: Don Macaluso Subject: [PRR] PRR TrucTrain Sign Hello All: I've been referred to your list by a fellow member of the "rrdiana" list. I own an original PRR "TrucTrain" sign. It's in relatively good condition, but needs some restoration to the porcelain. Herein lies my problem; I can't seem to find anyone who does this kind of work. I'm hoping that someone here would be able to point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance, Don Macaluso ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Trip Report - NYC to Princeton From: Michael E Allen Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 23:29:27 EDT Were you by chance here for our annual bacchanal where the campus is walled off and beer is brought in by the trailer load? I was in a very detailed discussion with a returning alum about where the 0/3 milepost is and why. Obligatory PRR content: At one time Princeton University's reunions were Anheuser Busch's largest single sale annually with the occasional exception of the Indianapolis 500. For the uninitiated this event is a week-long series of beer parties, colloquia, beer parties, athletic contests, beer parties, theater performances, beer parties, et cetera [you get the idea] culminating in the Tuesday Morning [today] commencement. In the days before Penn Central, much of the beer consumed was brought right to the campus in insulated box cars and there were frequently private cars in the station. I do not remember beer cars after the mid-sixties and the last PV I'm certain of was 1992. Since NJT "rationalized" the branch and the station trackage there is no room in town for PVs. [The Busch monopoly on providing the beer seems to have ended with the inability to park their PV.] The mile post metioned above was the nominal end of the branch when the station was in its second location below Blair Tower. The University left it in place and now it serves to ocassionally anchor one of the fences used to keep the revelers in check. MEA ________________________________________________________ PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY Telephone 609-683-0356 Management Services Telecopier 609-683-0192 Michael E. Allen meallen@juno.com W.R Allen Associates wrallenassoc@earthlink.net On Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:04:54 -0700 John Cooper writes: >On my trip back east this weekend, I was able to ride Ex-PRR from NYC >to >Princeton Jct, and I thought a trip report might be of interrest to >some. Snipped// //Snipped >John > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:29:54 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1 Decapod Hi, If you search the PRR_talk archives, you will find a complete description of where the loco is and how to find it. In addition, Rick Stiller posted some photos on a web page a couple years ago...they are at: http://members.aol.com/rtsiller/PRRinWNY.html Rick's accompanying text says: "One of the more exciting remnants of the PRR in Western New York is steam locomotive I1sa #4483. According to the builder's plate, #4483 was built by the Baldwin Locomotive Works as #56534 in May of 1923. #4483 currently sits on an old Erie Railroad siding in Hamburg, New York and is the maintained by the Western New York Railway Historical Society. These photos were taken in October '97, so you can see there is a significant amount of work to do if this engine were ever to run again. The boiler jacketing has been removed, presumably to get rid of the asbestos. The main drive rods from the cylinders are missing and the weather has taken its toll. The tender appears in better shape, but notice the ever present I1 tender doghouse is missing. That's because the tender is just a shell. The complete interior has been gutted, no water tank or coal bunker. Hopefully the doghouse is in storage somewhere for future restoration." Happy Rails Bruce >Originally there was an I-1 Decapod in Wilmerding, Pa. It was scheduled to go >to Strasburg, but that fell through. It was finally towed to New York State. >Various stories about its present condition range every where from the fact >that it has been painted and reconditioned, to the more dubious report that >it is rusting away with drivers dismantled. Does anyone know more about this >monster? > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:24:07 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Kudos - Denholm Howdy y'all! Kudos to our colleague George Pierson! His feature on the Denholm coal warf appears in the latest Railroad Model Craftsman ("A Day at Denholm", RMC, July 1999, pp53-58). To subscribers of prr-talk, these models are familiar, but its great to see them going to a wider audience. Keep up the great work George, and thanks for setting the modeling bar so high for the rest of us !!!!!! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: WSpald3557@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:06:08 EDT Subject: [PRR] I-1 Decapod Originally there was an I-1 Decapod in Wilmerding, Pa. It was scheduled to go to Strasburg, but that fell through. It was finally towed to New York State. Various stories about its present condition range every where from the fact that it has been painted and reconditioned, to the more dubious report that it is rusting away with drivers dismantled. Does anyone know more about this monster? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:00:21 -0400 (EDT) From: alcoman Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1 Decapod Hello Basically it is a combination of both the conditions you noted in your mail.....it has been primered in some spots...expecially the tender and the engine itself has not had much work done to it. The drivers are dismantled and it belongs to the Western New York Railway Historical Society. It definitely has NOT been reconditioned in any way. If I get a chance I will get out that way and update the list when I have some time on my hands. Whenever you ask a member of the Society about the locomotive you get the same "when we get the time and the money" answer. Haven't seen it since the fall of 98 so the status has only gone one of 2 ways..it is being worked on or it is just sitting there like it has been for quite awhile. On Wed, 2 Jun 1999 WSpald3557@aol.com wrote: >Originally there was an I-1 Decapod in Wilmerding, Pa. It was scheduled to go >to Strasburg, but that fell through. It was finally towed to New York State. >Various stories about its present condition range every where from the fact >that it has been painted and reconditioned, to the more dubious report that >it is rusting away with drivers dismantled. Does anyone know more about this >monster? > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > W.J. Semanchuk-Enser Co-Network Admin - Technical Support alcoman@bluemoon.net net.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Online System x2 & K56flex/V.90 Access www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network http://www.bluemoon.net mud.bluemoon.net 4000 - MoonMud bbs.bluemoon.net irc.bluemoon.net-ZUHnet Buffalo,NY IRC Server Home Page:http://alcoman.railfan.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:47:25 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1 Decapod In a message dated 6/2/99 8:15:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, WSpald3557@aol.com writes: << Originally there was an I-1 Decapod in Wilmerding, Pa. It was scheduled to go to Strasburg, but that fell through. It was finally towed to New York State. Various stories about its present condition range every where from the fact that it has been painted and reconditioned, to the more dubious report that it is rusting away with drivers dismantled. Does anyone know more about this monster? >> It is under tarps the last I knew. The Pennsylvania Railroad Museum is interested in acquiring this locomotive. They had offered to trade an Erie locomotive for the I but the asking price include more than an even trade even though the Erie would be far more appropriate for the current setting of the I in MHO. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:36:24 -0500 (CDT) From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1 Decapod 4483 is in Hamburg, NY, behind a hobby shop in an old station. I visited her last summer to get photos and trace some of the piping that could not be seen from photos. It is in relatively good shape, considering it is out in the elements. It had a "recent" coat of paint and the cab had been repaired. The boiler jacket is gone. The drivers are only partly disassembled and those removed parts are in the tender. The smokebox numbers were bright gold, as were the numbers on the cab. The "PENNSYLVANIA" letters on the right side of the tender, which faces the street, were painted over, but not on the left side. The right side builders plate is gone. Rick Stiller has photos of 4483 on his web page at http://members.aol.com/rtsiller/PRRinWNY.html Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551-5926 409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 harperd@tamug.tamu.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:43:02 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Red Roofs (AGAIN!) Okay gang, I apologize, but...this is a NEW red roof question! I have recently acquired a Custom NJ Brass FF-2 model (#1) which has a red roof. Now, the only electrics I have seen with red roofs were the DD-1 and B-1 locos. Does anyone have any evidence that the FF-2 actually emerged from the Enola shops with a red roof? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:40:10 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] E6 tenders Hi All, Seeing as I am now the proud owner of a Bowser E6 Atlantic kit, I had a question about the tender that Bowser sells with the kit. I have often heard comments like "it's the wrong tender", or "it was rarely used with the E6" or "the MDC tender is more accurate" etc. From my research (basically Pennsy Power 1 & 2, and the Rail Classics web site), I find the following basic observations (I hope) 1) The E6 was never stoker equipped, leading to a deck height of 66" throughout its carreer 2) The E6 had several tenders, predominantly classes: 70P66 - no raised coal boards 70P66f - slightly raised coal boards - look like about 9-12" 90P66 - larger tank, noticable higher coal boards - look like around 18-24" So my questions are: Based on photos etc, it appears that the Bowser low side tender is a 70P66 (it should be noted that as sold in the kit, the tender has Kiesel trucks, and should be trucked with Dolphins)...is this correct? What version of the tender is the MDC model? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 19:10:55 EDT Subject: [PRR] Q-2 Number 6199 I have just acquired a photograph of this locomotive. Does anyone know where it was stationed? There were 25 built in 1945 and retired between 1953 and 1956. Also a K-4? number 5399 with the top of the smokebox flat on top, very curious. It also has a side plate about 18 inches high with the bottom in line with the bottom of the cab that runs the entire length of the locomotive and turns down approximatelty 30 degrees to meet the pilot in front of the piston housing. Harold Modeling the Middle Division in 1916 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RTSILLER@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 21:34:58 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1 Decapod I had dinner recently at a nice place across from the hobby shop where I-1 4483 resides and had a chance to check up on the old gal to see how winter treated her. Nothing has changed from the original pictures on my web page other than the height of the weeds. Don Harper's report below sums up the engine's current state: << It is in relatively good shape, considering it is out in the elements. It had a "recent" coat of paint and the cab had been repaired. The boiler jacket is gone. The drivers are only partly disassembled and those removed parts are in the tender. The smokebox numbers were bright gold, as were the numbers on the cab. The "PENNSYLVANIA" letters on the right side of the tender, which faces the street, were painted over, but not on the left side. The right side builders plate is gone. >> The right side number plate is, I'm assuming, in the hands of someone from the historical society. They were selling plaster copies of the builder's plate at a recent train show (that's where the image of the builder's plate on my web page came from) that were made from a mold of the original. No updates on any trade rumors or any actual work being done on the engine. I'll try to get an update sometime soon. My web page is in about the same state as the engine, no recent updates. I have some additional pictures of the inside of the cab and some engine detail, so please send me an email if you are looking for any specific part of the engine. Again, in case you missed the address in any of the other messages, it's: http://members.aol.com/rtsiller/PRRinWNY.html Rick Siller (not Stiller) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] P2K GP7's Date: Wed, 2 Jun 99 20:30:35 -0400 From: Jerry I am finally taking my first GP7 out of the box -- #8508 with dynamic brakes. The unit comes with several user-applied parts. I was wondering if all should be applied for the prototypical PRR unit. They are: Extended windows around cab What appear to be "marker stands" for front and rear A grill cover for the rear fan area Sun shades for the side windows Should all of these be applied? How should they be painted? What third party details should be added? (Please supply manufacturer and part number, if possible, as your response will be in the "PRR-Talk" list archive.) Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] TANGENT: D&S Hobbies Date: Wed, 2 Jun 99 22:24:50 -0400 From: Jerry Anyone know what happened to Dennis and D&S Hobbies? Dennis was a frequent contributor to this list, but his e-mail is now bouncing back as "unknown user". I just desubscribed him from the list. The shop was at http://www.onerrave.com, which is now dead. Anyone know what fate befell them? While we're on a tangent subject, "Team PRR" is busy looking for aliens via the SETI@home project (http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/). So far our team has 10 members and has put 309 hr 03 min 56.3 sec into the search for life elsewhere... --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] P2K GP7's Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:50:18 -0500 Jerry--There apparently is a lack of good photos of PRR GP7's, especially when they first went into service. The best I could come up with were in the Pennsy Diesel Years series. Let me give what I believe to be accurate answers to your questions, but please anyone else jump in. > Extended windows around cab > What appear to be "marker stands" for front and rear > A grill cover for the rear fan area > Sun shades for the side windows > >Should all of these be applied? No. Neither the extended windows nor the "grill cover" (winterization hatch) were not generally used (but remember this is the PRR!) Probably what you are calling "marker stands" are "MU stands" for the multiple unit connections. Of the three types provided, PRR used the one with the single MU connector mounted on the thin support which is probably intended to be a conduit. The type with the larger support for two connectors were used on PRR GP9's. I have not seen the third type, the short MU connector, used. If you look carefully on the bottom side of the end platforms, there are locators for drilling hole to attach the stands. Sun shades of the style included by P2K were used on at least some GP7's. >How should they be painted? DGLE >What third party details should be added? (Please supply manufacturer and >part number, if possible, as your response will be in the "PRR-Talk" list >archive.) Eyebolts: Until the GP7, I have not liked the eyebolts that P2K has used, and I have routinely replaced them with Details Associates 101101. However, these seem to have been improved and are less bulky on the GP7's. Footboards: P2K chose to use the footboard style from EMD's earliest production, with the sloping support to the board itself, without the receptacle to retain the ends of the MU hoses. Unfortunately, I have not seen this style in any PRR photos. These should be replaced to look like the P2K GP9 style. Trim off the existing structure and replace with P2K parts, if you can find them, or Detail Associates 2208. Horn: The horn is mounted in the wrong place and is the wrong type. Remember for PRR the long hood is the front. From the scant photos, I believe on the dynamic brake version the horn could either be just in front of or just behind the dynamic brake fan. For the nondynamic models, just ahead of the rear pair of cooling fans. I have been unable to find a good three-trumpet-all-forward horn in brass for GP's or other PRR applications. I have been using CalScale 316 and grinding off the top two small trumpets. I prefer brass just for the strength of the item. Can anyone on the List offer a better idea? Antennas: Some did, some didn't. CalScale 408. If installing antennas, also use Calscale 457 "Receiver" on top of the short end. MU hoses: The included MU hoses are really puny looking. Detail Associates 1508 look good when installed and placed in the footboard receptacles. Grab Irons: Replace with Detail Associates 2202 drop type or equivalent. Cab Seats: Remove and reinstall facing forward. DCC: Lenz LE103XF decoder is one type which fits after removing the P2K circuit board and is an economical choice. Either retain the P2K 3v. bulbs and use 150 ohm resisters, or use 12v, 30ma bulbs without resisters. Have fun! Steve Hoxie Pensacola, FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] **Camden & Amboy South end Canal, Tower and Trestle From: Michael E Allen Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 23:49:55 EDT Is this still on? MEA On Mon, 3 May 1999 23:28:26 -0400 "Bill Strassner" writes: >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BE95BC.A501C720 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >***Since our last Lines East outing ( MG / Trenton and environs south >to = >BOrdentown ) was so informative and entertaining, we cannot wait to = >'mount up' for another tour !!! BO to CB on the C&A ( Heart of the PRR >) = >is being planned for a June departure, between the 11th and 25th. > >This was Real, Factual, Proven and Touchable History of the PRR !!! >Any = >other interested parties are welcome to join us. Thanks to our >resident = >signal experts and historians, maps, diagrams, photos, interlocking = >charts of 'then and now', etc., will be available for this tour >packet, = >also. The 1929 diagram of BO interlocking was fully confirmed by = >physical evidence, which exactly matched the photos from back then >!=20 > >On our last tour ( despite what TVPedro said about 'sliver' not being >a = >railroad term ), we actually found a few ! Our group's MofW expert is >= >anal-yzing them now. We even experienced a 'close encounter' of the = >Conrail kind, luckily NOT on the BO to BD trestle. > >So bring the DEET and the leg-straps and come on out for a PRR day >along = >the Delaware ! Bill > >P.S.: Jerry, might you select a different verb for expressing your = >displeasure with eBay ??? That was not very civil of you....***=20 > >------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BE95BC.A501C720 >Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > >http-equiv=3DContent-Type> > > > > >
***Since our last Lines East outing ( MG / Trenton and environs = >south to=20 >BOrdentown ) was so informative and entertaining, we cannot wait to = >'mount up'=20 >for another tour !!! BO to CB on the C&A ( Heart of the PRR ) is = >being=20 >planned for a June departure, between the 11th and 25th.
>
 
>
This was Real, Factual, Proven and Touchable History of the = >PRR !!!=20 >Any other interested parties are welcome to join us. Thanks to our = >resident=20 >signal experts and historians, maps, diagrams, photos, interlocking = >charts of=20 >'then and now', etc., will be available for this tour packet, also. >The = >1929=20 >diagram of BO interlocking was fully confirmed by physical evidence, = >which=20 >exactly matched the photos from back then !
>
 
>
On our last tour ( despite what TVPedro said about 'sliver' not = >being a=20 >railroad term ), we actually found a few !  Our group's MofW >expert = >is=20 >anal-yzing them now. We even experienced a 'close encounter' of >the = >Conrail=20 >kind, luckily NOT on the BO to BD trestle.
>
 
>
So bring the DEET and the leg-straps and come on out for a PRR >day = >along=20 >the Delaware !  Bill
>
 
>
P.S.: Jerry, might you select a different verb for expressing >your=20 >displeasure with eBay ??? That was not very civil of=20 >you....*** 
> >------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BE95BC.A501C720-- > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has IHC GG-1's at 25% off >this month! See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] E6 tenders Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:54:45 -0500 Bruce--I admit that I am picky about tenders, but to my eye, the MDC model looks much more accurate than the Bowser "low side", which to me seems much too tall. 70P66 Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ted.andrews@woolpert.com Date: Thu, 03 Jun 99 09:39:54 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Q-2 Number 6199 Harold: I can provide some info on the Q-2 engine. I am not certain about 6199 specifically, but the Q-2 class engines were typically assigned out of Crestline, Ohio and Chicago (59th Street Yard). These long engines were assigned to the Fort Wayne line between Chicago and Conway Yard near Pittsburgh. (Q-2's may have been assigned out of Conway but I am not certian about that). Due to their gigantic dimensions, Q-2's rarely were seen east of Conway primarily due to clearance issues (i.e.: the bridges in downtown Pittsburgh, Horseshoe Curve, etc.) It has been documented that Q-2's did see service on the Panhandle (Chicago - Logansport, IN - Bradford, OH - Columbus) I am not certain on whether Q-2's went to Pittsburh via the Panhandle (via Columbus) or if they went out to Indianapolis and St. Louis. I believe that the Panhandle assignments were not common and the Ft. Wayne Line assignments were more the norm Ted M. Andrews Carmel, Indiana ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: [PRR] Q-2 Number 6199 Author: Hal6963@aol.com at Internet Date: 6/2/99 8:37 PM I have just acquired a photograph of this locomotive. Does anyone know where it was stationed? There were 25 built in 1945 and retired between 1953 and 1956. Also a K-4? number 5399 with the top of the smokebox flat on top, very curious. It also has a side plate about 18 inches high with the bottom in line with the bottom of the cab that runs the entire length of the locomotive and turns down approximatelty 30 degrees to meet the pilot in front of the piston housing. Harold Modeling the Middle Division in 1916 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] X41 vs X41c? Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:12:24 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Can anybody tell me what the difference was between X41 and X41c boxcars? From Rob Schoenberg's scanned in diagrams, (http://PRR.Railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=X41) the dimensions are identical except that the X41c is 1700 lbs. heavier and has another quarter-inch of door opening (but the same distance between doorposts). I might guess that this means loading racks of some sort inside, and that combined with the comment on the diagram that calls the X41 and automobile car, and the X41c just a box car, I might guess that the X41c had parts racks inside. Anybody know? Also, does the lack of panel lines in these diagrams imply welded sides? Thanks! Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 11:34:19 -0400 From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: [PRR] [Tan]Kit Plans I acquired a Tichy PFE Wood Reefer kit, Class R-40-4, kit #4024 at a club auction. There were no plans. If you have them would appreciate a copy. Contact off list for address/fax number. If you can scan attach and e-mail me I should be able to capture the image (I hope). Thanks. Tom Mahon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:02:00 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] X41 vs X41c? In a message dated 6/3/99 5:12:32 PM Central Daylight Time, dennis@bbn.com writes: << Can anybody tell me what the difference was between X41 and X41c boxcars? >> Quoting the Sept 1983 Keystone: "Where the stingers on X41 were 2-9/16x2x1/8 pressed Z sections for the enitre length of the floor,on the X41C the stringers are pressed sections only between the crossbearers, while 3" 6.7 lbs. rolled Z-sections were used betweenthe crossbearers and the end sills. Door openings were slightly different: 14'6-1/4"x 9' 7-1/8" on X41C versus 14'6"x9' 8-1/4" on theX41." So there! Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 22:54:30 -0400 From: Danny Seymour Subject: [PRR] Re: D&S Dennis is having tech difficulties with his server. Page said he would be back tonight (6-3-99). Dan Seymour ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Thomas K. Trower" Subject: [PRR] buildings along the NY&LB Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:45:25 -0400 Are their any accsessible original PRR and CNJ buildings, stations, towers and the like along the NY&LB and the PA&W lines in NJ? Later this month I may be railfanning along these lines and would like to get some historical footage. -Josh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] X41 vs X41c? Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 23:27:26 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell On 3 Jun, Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/3/99 5:12:32 PM Central Daylight Time, dennis@bbn.com > writes: > > << Can anybody tell me what the difference was between X41 and > X41c boxcars? >> > > Quoting the Sept 1983 Keystone: > > "Where the stingers on X41 were 2-9/16x2x1/8 pressed Z sections for the > enitre length of the floor,on the X41C the stringers are pressed sections > only between the crossbearers, while 3" 6.7 lbs. rolled Z-sections were used > betweenthe crossbearers and the end sills. Door openings were slightly > different: 14'6-1/4"x 9' 7-1/8" on X41C versus 14'6"x9' 8-1/4" on theX41." Interesting: the diagrams show the same width difference, but the height is given as 9'8-1/4" (X41, same as given) and 9'8-3/8" (X41c, 1-1/4" taller). > So there! Thanks! Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] Red Roofs (AGAIN!) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 08:20:33 -0400 The FF-2s were painted at Altoona, not Enola and they had brunswick roofs. The red cab roofs were a creature of the steam locomotive era, and to my knowledge not followed after the 1957 demise of the steamers. ---------- > From: Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Red Roofs (AGAIN!) > Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 9:43 AM > > Okay gang, > > I apologize, but...this is a NEW red roof question! I have recently > acquired a Custom NJ Brass FF-2 model (#1) which has a red roof. Now, the > only electrics I have seen with red roofs were the DD-1 and B-1 locos. > Does anyone have any evidence that the FF-2 actually emerged from the Enola > shops with a red roof? > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry > > PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com > _ _ > / \ / \ > ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ > |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| > | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | > |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| > | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "George N Pierson" Subject: [PRR] Some B&O info Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 08:00:53 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BEAE60.5E19DFC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all, Sorry for a question that may be a bit off topic, but can anyone tell me = the Valuation section number (used in the ICC Valuation reports) for the = B&O's line from Butler, PA to Mt. Jewett, PA? Commonly known as the = Northern Sub, it was originally the Pittsburgh & Western. I hope to = access the Valuation maps of this line but will need the section = reference when I visit the National Archives. And there doens't appear = to be a B&O website to help me. Thanks!! George N. Pierson e-mail: george.pierson@trnty.edu ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BEAE60.5E19DFC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,
 
Sorry for a question that may be a bit off topic, = but can=20 anyone tell me the Valuation section number (used in the ICC Valuation = reports)=20 for the B&O's line from Butler, PA to Mt. Jewett, PA?  Commonly = known=20 as the Northern Sub, it was originally the Pittsburgh & = Western.  I=20 hope to access the Valuation maps of this line but will need the section = reference when I visit the National Archives.  And there doens't = appear to=20 be a B&O website to help me.  Thanks!!
 
George N. Pierson
e-mail:  = george.pierson@trnty.edu
------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BEAE60.5E19DFC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 08:53:14 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Painting FW flat cars Hi all, Just took a quick look at ebay and there is an Alco Models HO FW-1 & FW-2 flat car for sale. http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=113033259 The photo of the model shows a VERY odd paint scheme of black or DGLE truck platforms/bolsters, and MOW yellow bodies, with minimal lettering. Is this a real PRR paint scheme for these cars? Or were they, as I always thought, FCC? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JOELPRR@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 13:06:10 EDT Subject: [PRR] MOW color What swould be a good paint color for a MOW car back in the 40's and 50's when they were the grey color? I'd like to stick with PollyScale. Thanks, Joel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 15:16:16 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Thorndale Coal Warf Hi All, As George points out in his RMC article on Denholm, a nearly identical warf was used at Thorndale. However, this warf was torn down around the time of WWII. Does anyone have a date as to when the warf was removed? Did it coincide with electrification (1938)? After the warf was removed, steamers were still coaled at Thorndale (esp helpers) but using small towers that look an awful lot like sand towers. Any help (especially photos of either the warf or the later coaling towers) would be greatly appreciated! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 15:00:02 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] MOW color >What swould be a good paint color for a MOW car back in the 40's and 50's >when they were the grey color? I'd like to stick with PollyScale. Joel, I've been very pleased with Polyscale D&H grey. Use it straight for relatively newly painted equipment, and add some reefer white for a more faded look. I use steam power black, also lightened with a drop of reefer white for the black areas. "I don't need no stinkin yellow" Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 20:37:12 -0400 From: Livingston Subject: Re: [PRR] Red Roofs (AGAIN!) Bruce, I have encountered a great lack of photographic support for the notion that the FF2's were red-roofed. Photographic evidence suggests they were DGLE overall. I am sure you have looked in all the usual places. The red-roof electric paint job seems to be limited to the time when the FF2's were being replaced by E44's, or am I wrong on this? If so, they may not have bothered to repaint them that way. Or, maybe just one or two got the red roofs. What is the number on the model? Maybe it's a copy of some obscure photo....by the way, since there were only seven, have you seen a photo of the elusive No. 1? I think I've got the other six covered. -- Robert Livingston Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote: > > Okay gang, > > I apologize, but...this is a NEW red roof question! I have recently > acquired a Custom NJ Brass FF-2 model (#1) which has a red roof. Now, the > only electrics I have seen with red roofs were the DD-1 and B-1 locos. > Does anyone have any evidence that the FF-2 actually emerged from the Enola > shops with a red roof? > > Happy Rails > Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:28:27 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] question On 5-29-99 Don Macaluso wrote...... Hello All: I've been referred to your list by a fellow member of the "rrdiana" list. I own an original PRR "TrucTrain" sign. It's in relatively good condition, but needs some restoration to the porcelain. Herein lies my problem; I can't seem to find anyone who does this kind of work. I'm hoping that someone here would be able to point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance, Don Macaluso Hmmmm i have a similar question.....anyone know of anyone or a company that restores passenger conductor hat badges. I have a old Pennsy badge that could use cleaning and some work on the black lettering and red keystone. It looks like some kind of epoxy or special plastic was used. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 18:51:45 -0700 From: Roger Elliott Subject: [PRR] Spruce Creek and Fine-N-Scale Hi guys, I was wondering if anyone saw any books or other info on Spruce Creek area. I know Harold has said he would e-mail me some pics he was going to scan and that will help a lot, but if anyone has any other info, I would certainly appreciate it. What were the tunnel portals like? Also I'm trying to find the new phone number for Fine-N-Scale. I want to check iwth Dick Billings on the N5c caboose he was trying to make. Thanks, Roger Elliott ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:13:58 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Compression Brakes (was: Dumb Question of the Day) In a message dated 99-05-22 02:33:16 EDT, John Cooper wrote: << Subj: RE: [PRR] Dumb Question of the Day Obviously dynamic brakes were introduced with the diesel era. But in theory, the same principle should have been possible in the steam era. Instead of using the expansion of steam in the cylinders to power the drivers, the train's momentum via the drivers could have been used to compress air in the cylinders. Does anyone know if there were any attempts at this type of thing? Maybe the valve work would be too complicated, I don't know. Maybe cooling the cylinders would be a problem. >> Sorry for the slow response, but I've had some semi-elective surgery done, and am just now catching up on the listservers: your question gets one paragraph in Alfred W. Bruce's , New York, W. W. Norton, 1952 (there is a Bonanza Books reprint also out there), p. 268: "Cylinder Compression Brakes" "Cylinder compression brakes were much used prior to prehaps 1900. Atmospheric air as a compression medium was at first often used, but owing to it heating tendency and the sucking in of cinders and hot gases from the smokebox, it was soon discarded in favor of steam vapor. The Le Châtelier water brake was perhaps the best known of these brakes and was applied to many engines operating on heavy grades. This brake consisted of a globe regulating value in a pipe line that admitted hot water from the boiler to the exhaust passages of the cylinders. There it immediately formed a heavy vapor which was drawn into the cylinders by the the suction of the pistons. The reverse lever, which had been set in mid-position, was now gradually moved into back gear until the desired braking power was obtained. "The device was simple and effective but was naturally subject to abuse in operation, and cylinder-head relief valves were fitted whenever it was applied. Its purpose was the same as that of the independent air brake, which is to facilitate train speed control and to assist in relieving the train brake shoes from heat on long grades." Trains Magazine had a technical article some number of years ago on the use of the water brake on D&RGW articulateds: assume that it was written by Robert A. LeMassena, who would be one to know the subject. Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA and Niles IL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 4 Jun 99 22:44:33 EDT From: "PETER TYRRELL JR." Subject: [PRR] Thorndale Coal Warf To the best of my recollection it was still in operation in 1948. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 23:01:41 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Spruce Creek and Fine-N-Scale Spruce Creek has 2 seperate stone portals on the east side. One on the west side with 2 seperate bores spread about 75 feet and joined by a stone portal. Harold Modeling the Middle Division in 1916 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:12:43 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] buildings along the NY&LB In a message dated 99-06-03 19:57:42 EDT, Thomas Trower wrote: << Are their any accsessible original PRR and CNJ buildings, stations, towers and the like along the NY&LB and the PA&W lines in NJ? >> Query: what railroad company is "PA&W"??? Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA and Niles IL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 09:08:46 EDT Subject: [PRR] bp20 sharks Has anyone seen the new models put out by Trainstuff of their BP20 A & B units? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Paul W. Schopp" Subject: Re: [PRR] buildings along the NY&LB Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 08:32:29 -0400 Bruce: The PA&W would be the Perth Amboy & Woodbridge, a railroad dating to 1855. During the 1860s, this line operated Grice & Long steam cars--a distant ancestor of the Budd RDC! Best, Paul Schopp spanky@voicenet.com ================================================================== Bruce Reynolds wrote: >In a message dated 99-06-03 19:57:42 EDT, Thomas Trower wrote: > ><< Are their any accsessible original PRR and CNJ buildings, stations, >towers and the like along the NY&LB and the PA&W lines in NJ? >> > >Query: what railroad company is "PA&W"??? > >Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA and Niles IL > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Denholm Wharf From: Michael E Allen Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 13:59:42 EDT Prof. Pierson et alia; Magnificent model and very well done presentation, right down to the subtle inclusion of a triple gauge operations, on the PRR!. Unfortunately, the proofreader/paper grader in me has one nit to pick and it is a nit which, were it to be picked off of a paper turned in by one of my students would result in it being handed back ungraded with the suggestion that he check his side notes. as published: p 58, 2nd column, third para, third line. I can't find it. I have checked every page in the July RMC. If somebody out there will show me where in RMC the track plan is I will write " I will not grade papers without my glasses." one hundred times on my office blackboard. Good job, George mea ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:20:30 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Red Roofs (AGAIN!) The FF2 arrive in '56 and departed in '61 to dead storage at Enola. It is doubtful they were ever painted with red roofs. The model may have been painted following a well weathered model with the GN orange being uncovered or "bleeding" through the DGLE. Just a guess. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] bp20 sharks Date: Sat, 5 Jun 99 20:57:51 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/5/99 9:08 AM, DWa9975062@aol.com (DWa9975062@aol.com) wrote: >Has anyone seen the new models put out by Trainstuff of their BP20 A & B >units? To be fair to members of the list, the poster of the above message "is" Trainstuff! The post certainly follows the parameters of the list, but it would seem deceitful to ask the above question without indicating the "close involvement" with the product. Also, do not confuse the Trainstuff BP20's with the Miracle Castings BP20's which many of us already have. There are entirely different caliber of products, as was discussed several months ago on the list. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Robert Schoenberg" Subject: [PRR] FW: Pennsylvania Railroad - Edgemoor Yards Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 22:13:30 -0400 Hi all, Can anyone help Barbara out? Make sure you send or cc any replies to Barbara at Jhuskey4@aol.com as I don't think she's on the list. Rob -----Original Message----- From: Jhuskey4@aol.com [mailto:Jhuskey4@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 11:16 AM To: robs@railfan.net Subject: Pennsylvania Railroad Hello, My name is Barbara Huskey and I am asking you for help in locating information in regards to the Pennsylvania Railroad and the Edgemoor Yards. My greatgrandfather, John Cavanaugh was an employee there for almost 45 years. He began working there in 1891 as a switchman, was promoted to car inspector in 1917 and was struck by a train there in 1932...he died several days later. I cannot seem to find anything that deals specifically with the Edgemoor Yards during this time frame. Can you point me in the right direction? Thanks, Barbara Huskey jhuskey4@aol.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: endeimling@mindspring.com Subject: [PRR] Trains and Planes Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 19:57:48 -0700 I just picked up a copy of a magazine called "Airways". The July issue has an article on the coast to coast train/airplane service created in 1929 by the Pennsylvania Railroad and Transcontinential Air Transport (TAT). It is worth a read if you like airplanes and trains. Gene Deimling ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Spruce Creek and Fine-N-Scale Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 00:22:35 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell On 4 Jun, Roger Elliott wrote: > Also I'm trying to find the new phone number for Fine-N-Scale. I want > to check iwth Dick Billings on the N5c caboose he was trying to make. The new FNS contact info is: Fine N-Scale Products 4202 Blue Heron Circle Anacortes, WA 98221-3672 (360)299-4527 ph (360)588-0247 fax Please pass along any info you can. Thanks! Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac1@aol.com Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 09:16:37 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR First Aid Kit I am looking for a PRR first aid kit, the metal type painted silver with PRR in the keystone. I would like to trade a new CONRAIL first aid kit of the same type, new still in carton with complete contents. PRR should in very good cond. with contents, not alot of scratchs or paint coming off. E-mail off line please so as not to put alot on the PRR-TALK line. Thank you. PKMac1@aol.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 08:28:09 -0700 From: Frank Bagrash Subject: [PRR] Stewart C-628 Hi, Can anybody comment upon the accuracy of the paint job on the Stewart PRR C-628? Are the truck sideframes and underbody painted accurately? Thanks! Frank -- Frank M. Bagrash, Ph.D. 714-278-2669 Department of Psychology 714-278-7134 (Fax) P.O. Box 6846 California State University Fullerton, California 92834-6846 E-mail: fbagrash@fullerton.edu Boogie gently, babies ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 13:27:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Stewart C-628 On Sun, 6 Jun 1999, Frank Bagrash wrote: > Hi, > > Can anybody comment upon the accuracy of the paint job on the Stewart > PRR C-628? Are the truck sideframes and underbody painted accurately? My unit has molded plastic (unpainted) sideframes; Does yours not? They're black unpainted molded plastic. The keystones have the wrong shade of red (it's closer to Tuscan than Toluidine). No numbering anywhere on the unit, the only "decoration" is the keystones. Seemed odd to me. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 19:03:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Stewart C-628 On Sun, 6 Jun 1999, Bill Laird wrote: > Did not Stewart do the same no road number trick with their F units some > years back? Yeah, but in that case, the box said "no number" or a number (I have an F unit numbered 9501, if i recall, so they did do numbered units as well) This box just claims it's a PRR unit, says nothing about numbered or not. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Laird" Subject: Re: [PRR] Stewart C-628 Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 18:04:37 -0500 Did not Stewart do the same no road number trick with their F units some years back? Bill Laird -----Original Message----- From: Derrick J Brashear Cc: PRR-Talk Date: Sunday, June 06, 1999 3:27 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Stewart C-628 >On Sun, 6 Jun 1999, Frank Bagrash wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Can anybody comment upon the accuracy of the paint job on the Stewart >> PRR C-628? Are the truck sideframes and underbody painted accurately? > >My unit has molded plastic (unpainted) sideframes; Does yours not? >They're black unpainted molded plastic. The keystones have the wrong shade >of red (it's closer to Tuscan than Toluidine). No numbering anywhere on >the unit, the only "decoration" is the keystones. Seemed odd to me. > >-D > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "bowtrolley" Subject: [PRR] NY & LB Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 00:07:34 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BEB079.BE46E080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In Long Branch, a good deal of the Jersey Central right of way is still = walkable, if you dont mind alot of weeds and cutting through some = driveways and backyards. Start off near the present NJ transit line, = near "Richards Deli". You will see the Jersey Central grass patch veer = off towards the ocean. You can follow it to Ocean Boulevard, which looks = to me as though most of it was the former RR alignment. At the exact = point where the NY & LB crossed the Jersey Central (nr Richard's Deli), = there is a boarded up, old industrial building. It is not clear if its = rail-related, although it looks like an old powerhouse for something. = Also, there is another long right of way that cuts all the way through = Long Branch, going east- west. This is about 1-1/2 miles "North" of the = NY & LB. I have no idea of what that was, maybe an old interurban line. = It currently has a power line over it, but the rails are clear at the = grade crossings. You can also see another part of the same Jersey Central line in Red = Bank, NJ. On the main drag of the town, there is a large antique center = located in a really old brick industrial building. Along side is the = weed patch right of way, extending quite a distance. Bob D=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BEB079.BE46E080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In Long Branch, a good deal of the = Jersey=20 Central right of way is still walkable, if you dont mind alot of weeds = and=20 cutting through some driveways and backyards. Start off near the present = NJ=20 transit line, near "Richards Deli". You will see the Jersey = Central=20 grass patch veer off towards the ocean. You can follow it to Ocean = Boulevard,=20 which looks to me as though most of it was the former RR alignment. At = the exact=20 point where the NY & LB crossed the Jersey Central (nr Richard's = Deli),=20 there is a boarded up, old industrial building. It is not clear if its=20 rail-related, although it looks like an old powerhouse for something. = Also,=20 there is another long right of way that cuts all the way through Long = Branch,=20 going east- west. This is about 1-1/2 miles "North" of the NY = &=20 LB. I have no idea of what that was, maybe an old interurban line. It = currently=20 has a power line over it, but the rails are clear at the grade=20 crossings.
 
You can also see another part of the = same Jersey=20 Central line in Red Bank, NJ. On the main drag of the town, there is a = large=20 antique center located in a really old brick industrial building. Along = side is=20 the weed patch right of way, extending quite a distance.
 
Bob = D 
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BEB079.BE46E080-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Stewart C-628 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 99 06:20:22 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/6/99 7:03 PM, Derrick J Brashear (shadow@dementia.org) wrote: >> Did not Stewart do the same no road number trick with their F units some >> years back? > >Yeah, but in that case, the box said "no number" or a number (I have an F >unit numbered 9501, if i recall, so they did do numbered units as well) > >This box just claims it's a PRR unit, says nothing about numbered or not. The C-628's were only offered as "no number", as I found out AFTER I received numerous quantities for my customers. I double checked with my distributor and confirmed this. Sure would be nice if they told you ahead of time! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 03:43:20 EDT Subject: [PRR] TAKING ON AL STAUFFER On Friday night, in front of witnesses, at our "O" scale club Al Stauffer, author of Pennsy Power 1, 2 and 3 made the statement that "no E-6 ever operated in Ohio" I think I can prove him wrong, but not by using HIS books. Following electrification, in the East, E-6s migrated all over the System. Fred Westig's "Apex of the Atlantics" (Kalmbach 1963) Chapter 13 details a run of The Detroit Arrow August 12, 1937, between Fort Wayne and Chicago. It was, at the time, one of the World's fastest trains. The E-6s (# 1649) "supplanted heavier Pacifics" with trains of 5 & 6 cars and was "the first steam schedule at better than 75 MPH for over 100 miles: Fort Wayne to Gary, 123 miles in 98 minutes - 75.3 MPH." Now Fort Wayne to Chicago is not in Ohio - I knew that, but knowing Pennsy geography I'm pretty sure the Locos passed through Ohio to get to Fort Wayne. Al will probably try to "hang his hat" on the word "IN" as in "the E-6 never operated IN Ohio." Does anyone on the list have photo or roster info putting an E-6 IN Ohio - If at least one was based in Fort Wayne did it (they) ever operate east to Crestline which IS in Ohio? Help me win this one with Al - As everyone knows he's really an NYC fan! Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] Trains and Planes Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 08:12:58 -0400 I read that article years ago published somewhere else, but I can't remember where. If I find out, I will let y'all know. Bill V. ---------- > From: endeimling@mindspring.com > To: PRR Forum > Subject: [PRR] Trains and Planes > Date: Saturday, June 05, 1999 10:57 PM > > I just picked up a copy of a magazine called "Airways". The July issue has > an article on the coast to coast train/airplane service created in 1929 by > the Pennsylvania Railroad and Transcontinential Air Transport (TAT). It > is worth a read if you like airplanes and trains. > Gene Deimling > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] Red Roofs (AGAIN!) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 08:08:31 -0400 Either that or he used the blue prints (painting diagrams) for the older electric locos that called for the red roofs. Bill V. ---------- > From: SUVCWORR@aol.com > To: rlivingston01@snet.net; PRR-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Red Roofs (AGAIN!) > Date: Saturday, June 05, 1999 5:20 PM > > The FF2 arrive in '56 and departed in '61 to dead storage at Enola. It is > doubtful they were ever painted with red roofs. The model may have been > painted following a well weathered model with the GN orange being uncovered > or "bleeding" through the DGLE. Just a guess. > > Rich Orr > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 08:14:41 -0400 From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: Re: [PRR] TAKING ON AL STAUFFER I don't know if this will help - but: According to the M.P.229 of 11/1/44, the PRR had a total of 60 active E6s locomotives. (They also had some E3 and E5 types still on the roster along with some K2 and K3's also) Four E6s locomotives where assigned the Fort Wayne Division (1239, 1281, 1649 & 1710). The vast majority where close the Atlantic states (New York, New Jersey, Phia area, and some MD) area, including all the older models. Mr. Stauffer may be correct in stating that no E6s ever operated on a regularly scheduled train in Ohio. The statement might also be made for most of the Lines West States too. I hate to assume anything but it looks like the G, K, M and T's did the all the work west of Harrisburg, except for the Fort Wayne 4. cos wsbcos.com VVA249@aol.com wrote: > On Friday night, in front of witnesses, at our "O" scale club Al > Stauffer, author of Pennsy Power 1, 2 and 3 made the statement that "no E-6 > ever operated in Ohio" > I think I can prove him wrong, but not by using HIS books. Following > electrification, in the East, E-6s migrated all over the System. Fred > Westig's "Apex of the Atlantics" (Kalmbach 1963) Chapter 13 details a run of > The Detroit Arrow August 12, 1937, between Fort Wayne and Chicago. It was, at > the time, one of the World's fastest trains. The E-6s (# 1649) "supplanted > heavier Pacifics" with trains of 5 & 6 cars and was "the first steam schedule > at better than 75 MPH for over 100 miles: Fort Wayne to Gary, 123 miles in 98 > minutes - 75.3 MPH." > Now Fort Wayne to Chicago is not in Ohio - I knew that, but knowing > Pennsy geography I'm pretty sure the Locos passed through Ohio to get to Fort > Wayne. Al will probably try to "hang his hat" on the word "IN" as in "the E-6 > never operated IN Ohio." > Does anyone on the list have photo or roster info putting an E-6 IN > Ohio - If at least one was based in Fort Wayne did it (they) ever operate > east to Crestline which IS in Ohio? > Help me win this one with Al - As everyone knows he's really an NYC > fan! > > Dick Ross > Cleveland > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] Compression Brakes (was: Dumb Question of the Day) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 08:06:41 -0400 I am not old enough to remember, but the old timers told me that the early tractor trailer rigs in the days before air brakes used a vacuum braking system on long grades such that if the engine died going down hill it was "over" for the poor trucker! ---------- > From: BBReynolds@aol.com > To: johncoop@microsoft.com; prr-talk@dsop.com > Cc: BBReynolds@aol.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Compression Brakes (was: Dumb Question of the Day) > Date: Saturday, June 05, 1999 12:13 AM > > In a message dated 99-05-22 02:33:16 EDT, John Cooper wrote: > > << Subj: RE: [PRR] Dumb Question of the Day > > Obviously dynamic brakes were introduced with the diesel era. But in > theory, the same principle should have been possible in the steam era. > Instead of using the expansion of steam in the cylinders to power the > drivers, the train's momentum via the drivers could have been used to > compress air in the cylinders. Does anyone know if there were any attempts > at this type of thing? Maybe the valve work would be too complicated, I > don't know. Maybe cooling the cylinders would be a problem. > >> > > Sorry for the slow response, but I've had some semi-elective surgery done, > and am just now catching up on the listservers: your question gets one > paragraph in Alfred W. Bruce's Development in the Twentieth > Century>, New York, W. W. Norton, 1952 (there is a Bonanza Books reprint also > out there), p. 268: > > "Cylinder Compression Brakes" > > "Cylinder compression brakes were much used prior to prehaps 1900. Atmospheric > air as a compression medium was at first often used, but owing to it heating > tendency and the sucking in of cinders and hot gases from the smokebox, it > was soon discarded in favor of steam vapor. The Le Châtelier water brake was > perhaps the best known of these brakes and was applied to many engines > operating on heavy grades. This brake consisted of a globe regulating value > in a pipe line that admitted hot water from the boiler to the exhaust > passages of the cylinders. There it immediately formed a heavy vapor which > was drawn into the cylinders by the the suction of the pistons. The reverse > lever, which had been set in mid-position, was > now gradually moved into back gear until the desired braking power was > obtained. > "The device was simple and effective but was naturally subject to abuse in > operation, and cylinder-head relief valves were fitted whenever it was > applied. Its purpose was the same as that of the independent air brake, which > is to facilitate train speed control and to assist in relieving the train > brake shoes from heat on long grades." > > Trains Magazine had a technical article some number of years ago on the use > of the water brake on D&RGW articulateds: assume that it was written by > Robert A. LeMassena, who would be one to know the subject. > > Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA and Niles IL > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] TAKING ON AL STAUFFER Date: Mon, 7 Jun 99 11:09:34 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/7/99 9:20 AM, ted.andrews@woolpert.com (ted.andrews@woolpert.com) wrote: > It would be nice to prove Al wrong. Although I really like his books and > use them in reference, he has stated some things in them that I think are > broad generalizations that are not accurate. This basically applies to the > PRR Duplexes (T-1, S-1, Q-1, Q-2). Now that Al's credibility has been questioned, I guess we have to resort to Triumph I for accuracy? I, too, enjoy Al's books. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] July TRAINS Magazine Date: Mon, 7 Jun 99 11:02:45 -0400 From: Jerry Not sure how many of you saw it, but the July issue of TRAINS has an article about Pennsy streamliners... I found it particularly informative and was pleased to discover that it the article was actually a prelude to the July release of the book "Pennsy Streamliners: The Blue Ribbon Fleet", by Joe Welsh. Maybe I was sleeping under a rock -- I often do -- but I wasn't aware of this book in the works. Which reminds me, where the heck is "Triumph II"? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ted.andrews@woolpert.com Date: Mon, 07 Jun 99 08:20:00 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] TAKING ON AL STAUFFER Dick: It is true that E-6's did have to pass through Ohio to get to Indiana. But Al might be referring to E-6's assigned to Ohio. Still, I will keep an eye open and inform you if I come across anything. It would be nice to prove Al wrong. Although I really like his books and use them in reference, he has stated some things in them that I think are broad generalizations that are not accurate. This basically applies to the PRR Duplexes (T-1, S-1, Q-1, Q-2). Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: [PRR] TAKING ON AL STAUFFER Author: VVA249@aol.com at Internet Date: 6/7/99 9:04 AM On Friday night, in front of witnesses, at our "O" scale club Al Stauffer, author of Pennsy Power 1, 2 and 3 made the statement that "no E-6 ever operated in Ohio" I think I can prove him wrong, but not by using HIS books. Following electrification, in the East, E-6s migrated all over the System. Fred Westig's "Apex of the Atlantics" (Kalmbach 1963) Chapter 13 details a run of The Detroit Arrow August 12, 1937, between Fort Wayne and Chicago. It was, at the time, one of the World's fastest trains. The E-6s (# 1649) "supplanted heavier Pacifics" with trains of 5 & 6 cars and was "the first steam schedule at better than 75 MPH for over 100 miles: Fort Wayne to Gary, 123 miles in 98 minutes - 75.3 MPH." Now Fort Wayne to Chicago is not in Ohio - I knew that, but knowing Pennsy geography I'm pretty sure the Locos passed through Ohio to get to Fort Wayne. Al will probably try to "hang his hat" on the word "IN" as in "the E-6 never operated IN Ohio." Does anyone on the list have photo or roster info putting an E-6 IN Ohio - If at least one was based in Fort Wayne did it (they) ever operate east to Crestline which IS in Ohio? Help me win this one with Al - As everyone knows he's really an NYC fan! Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 11:30:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR PHOTO TIME Hello list, Just returned from vacation in Arizona and I am rejoining the list. As many of you know I have been listing PRR Model pics here the last several months. While in AZ. I was able to scan "lots" more from my portfolio. The first of the lot is being posted now. Look for more once a week or so. The first can be seen at: http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/boutique/5089/on6b.jpg This is a scan of an O Scale PRR N6B cabin. I like center cupola versions and that is what I built starting with an older Quality Craft Kit. The cupola was built out of Styrene, the rest is mostly stock kit. I am in the process of placing an interrior in it but really haven't had the time and info to do it yet. It is lettered with the shadow keystone and for the Buckeye Region. Although I am mainly an HO scale collector/modeler, the size of O scale can really be impressive. Next week look for a photo that used to pull this and its train. Enjoy the pic! Thanks, Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] K5 Options in HO Scale Date: Mon, 7 Jun 99 12:34:47 -0400 From: Jerry Since the PRR only produced two K-5 locomotives, it isn't likely that we're going to see one of these in HO scale in non-brass any time soon. I am evaluating the purchase of a brass unit, and I'd like to request feedback from the group... What all manufacturers made brass K-5s? What were their respective flaws (e.g. incorrect tender) or good points? What eras did they represent? Thanks. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] George Pierson's Denholm Date: Mon, 7 Jun 99 11:07:26 -0400 From: Jerry Over the weekend I picked up a copy of July's "Railroad Model Craftsman" (which I don't subscribe to). I want to reiterate to everyone what a fantastic job fellow lister George Pierson has done in capturing the essence of the coal wharf at Denholm. Wow! George's layout serves as a reminder to all of us of how great it is to model accurate depictions of the Pennsy. Now, two observations: 1) The layout is 1951 and there were Tuscan five-stripe E7's. Didn't Tuscan start in 1952? 2) George, George, George!!! There are two back-to-back "Edgar Allen Poe" cars in the one consist!!! Two minor details in an otherwise wonderful layout... --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] K5 Options in HO Scale Date: Mon, 7 Jun 99 14:01:34 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/7/99 1:29 PM, doloris mittner (mittner@webtv.net) wrote: >I can see why you could use one of these. These k5's >worked the Harrisburg-Baltimore run. I have pics of the K5's in >Baltimore and Harrisburg in the 46-50 era, but don't you model the the >52' era in Harrisburg? I'm not sure when they were scrapped, but the K-5 is a "gotta have". I am modeling 1954, but don't we all fudge just a little? ;-) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 13:29:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] K5 Options in HO Scale Jerry, Two importers released the K5's. In the mid 70's Westside Models came out with the walschert, (sorry for the spelling) valve gear verson and in the early 90's Key released several versions. Although the Westside was good for its time, you can't beat the workmanship of the Key's. I don't remmember what I was told but there is a flaw on the Key K5's. I think it has something to do with the boiler length or contour. Someone out there may know for sure. The Westside isn't exactly a "blueprint" job either. The price Tag is also another thing to consider. I bought my Westside K5 around 1980. I believe I paid $160.00 for it. Again not bad a price for back then. Today you have to pay $350.00+ to get one. Key's K5 price is somewhere in the neighborhood of $800.00, painted. You have to decide what fits your needs. I couldn't imagine another importer or plastic manufacturer doing another run of these because of the limited interest. If they do I see the $1200.00 price range in the brass market. There is 1400+ Westside K5's out there and who knows how many Key k5's there are. If I were in the market for one today I would go for the Key K5 even though it will cost dearly. I have other Key Locos and they are some of the best "lookers and runners" out there. I can see why you could use one of these. These k5's worked the Harrisburg-Baltimore run. I have pics of the K5's in Baltimore and Harrisburg in the 46-50 era, but don't you model the the 52' era in Harrisburg? These were scrapped in the 52'-53' time period. If I recall correctly, at least one worked the Pittsburgh-Altoona run in the 30's. Didn't they end up out east, (Del., N.J areas) somewhere during there last days? Need more info on that myself!. Thats my 2 cents, I mean 3 cents worth.....Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 14:11:19 -0400 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: [PRR] 44-tonners Gentlemen (esp. Bill Volkmer!), I know the GE 44-tonners were used on the docks on the eastern end of the system, but were any used in Erie? -- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR P&E and E&P branches web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:10:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] George Pierson's Denholm On Mon, 7 Jun 1999, Jerry wrote: > George's layout serves as a reminder to all of us of how great it is to > model accurate depictions of the Pennsy. > > Now, two observations: [] > 2) George, George, George!!! There are two back-to-back "Edgar Allen Poe" > cars in the one consist!!! Which, if true, would be both 2) and 3), since the gentleman's name was Edgar Allan Poe. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Fw: [PRR] George Pierson's Denholm (long) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 99 15:47:57 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/7/99 3:37 PM, George N Pierson (george.pierson@trnty.edu) wrote: >>1) The layout is 1951 and there were Tuscan five-stripe E7's. Didn't >>Tuscan start in 1952? > > >After all the comments about a certain PRR author whose initials are AS, I >hope I've been not been caught out by him, because on p.225 of PENNSY POWER >II he indicates that EP 22's were built between 1950 and 1952. It is my >understanding that they came from the factory in Tuscan 5-stripe but please >correct this if my info is wrong. The EMD E8 may have been built as early as 1950, but the first PRR unit was #5700, built in 1952. Ouch! Caught again! As such, it certainly could have arrived in Tuscan five-stripe. Don't feel bad, George. You can have your 1952-built E8 in 1951, just as I want to have in 1954 a K5 that was scrapped in 1951-53!!!! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "George N Pierson" Subject: Fw: [PRR] George Pierson's Denholm (long) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:37:37 -0500 Hi, all, >Now, two observations: > >1) The layout is 1951 and there were Tuscan five-stripe E7's. Didn't >Tuscan start in 1952? After all the comments about a certain PRR author whose initials are AS, I hope I've been not been caught out by him, because on p.225 of PENNSY POWER II he indicates that EP 22's were built between 1950 and 1952. It is my understanding that they came from the factory in Tuscan 5-stripe but please correct this if my info is wrong. >2) George, George, George!!! There are two back-to-back "Edgar Allen Poe" cars in the one consist!!! Bugger it -- caught red-handed!! Yes, the Pullman conductor on this train will have a jolly time figuring out who gets what space on which car. In reality, I've always had a thing for the heavyweights which were up-graded with AC but I have been too lazy to modify Rivarossi cars so I took the cheap way out. You still saw a lot of modified heavyweights in 1951. BTW I'm anticipating Branchline Trains coming out with their own line of hw Pullmans - if they are half as good as their reefers, we're in for a treat. What I REALLY wanted to show in the consist (although I'd be pushing the envelope for 1951) would be a few dusty FOM cars which had escaped re-painting but we all know why I didn't. > >Two minor details in an otherwise wonderful layout... Thanks to all for the generous comments. RMC did a great job with what I sent them (although they forgot to edit out references to the trackplan which I sent them but they did not use -- see Jerry's website for the whole thing). It's also a good example of how to lie with a camera. I carefully left out all the raw plaster, bare plywood, etc. nearby. And BTW -- PLEASE DO nit-pick what you see. Because alot of what I modeled was based in my interpretation of photos and educated guesswork, I am sure that there are details that I've either over-looked or are wrong. In the interest of accuracy, have at it. Here are the items on which I personally would like further enlightenment: - the overhead crane with the modified Grandt line mine car at the rear of the powerhouse. I've studied many photos of this more-or-less PRR standard crane but am not confident I got it right. What you see is scratch-built. Ditto on the "ash" car. Any help or suggestions for greater accuracy is welcome. - ditto the sand car on the wharf. I know they used something to move the sand around but I've never seen drawings or photos. What you see is a modified Grandt Line push car. More info, anyone? - the later published photos of Denholm show what I've called whitewash on the stone piers of the wharf. My calling them whitewashed is based on a suggestion by a retired railroader I know. It would make sense to make the ends of these piers more visible at night. But does anyone know for sure? Naturally, about 2 months after I finished the model, I was loaned a set of Joe Henry Kline prints of Denholm which showed three areas I'd never seen before and of course the way I modeled it was wrong. The platform with the "ships wheels" etc. and the warming shed is about twice as wide as I modeled it. Second, the sandhouse built on the wharf deck had hinged openings in the wall next to the track. Apparently the sand arrived pretty much as I modeled it and had to be shoveled through these openings into the sandhouse. Not knowing this, the model lacks these openings. BTW I still can't figure out how they loaded raw sand into the sand tower. Anyone know? The last mistake is harder to spot so I'll let Denholm experts see if they can find it. I visited the sight of Denholm in late March and was surprised at how thoroughly the remains have been obliterated. The stone abutements for the wharf (along with the approach fills) remain, but other than that, you'd never know the rest was ever there. The tunnel entrances for the ash conveyor can still be seen but are filled with chunks of concrete rubble to keep fools like me from crawling down. The whole place must have been pretty interesting when steam still ruled the Middle Division. George N. Pierson e-mail: george.pierson@trnty.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 14:13:25 -0400 From: Livingston Subject: Re: [PRR] Red [electric] Roofs The red roof color scheme is pictured on B1 #4751 in Sunnyside Yard, with the very large helvetica style lettering as found on SD-45's, E44's and other latecomers (san serif, PRR on keystone between center side windows). The roof is definitely painted red and the sides are DGLE. Earlier colors for B1's were the standard gold PENNSYLVANIA with numbered keystone, all DGLE -- nothing mysterious here. Funny thing is, a cursory look at B1 numbers (Staufer) shows none numbered 4751. What gives? The photo is in the NJ International book of electrics locos of several years back. -- Robert Livingston Bill Volkmer wrote: > > Either that or he used the blue prints (painting diagrams) for the older > electric locos that called for the red roofs. > > Bill V. > > ---------- >> The FF2 arrive in '56 and departed in '61 to dead storage at Enola. It > is > > doubtful they were ever painted with red roofs. The model may have been > > painted