From: "Wayne Dibert" <102016.1343@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: [PRR] The B&O Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 22:14:12 -0400 Hi guys The B&O never interchanged with the PRR on any part of the Philadelphia Erie Line. The closest that they got to this part of the railroad was through an interchange in Pittsburgh. Then the trains came up through Altoona and the lowgrade branch through Driftwood. The Reading, New York Central, Erie, and PRR all went through Newberry yard and interchanged there. The Reading Came from the East, the New Yrok Centeral came from the north down Pine Creek through Jersey Shore as did the Erie. The PRR would come across the river to interchange with freight. Wayne F. Dibert 102016.1343@worldnet.att.net ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Friday, March 26, 1999 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] NYC Trackage rights to Renovo > Michael, > I've always found the Williamsport-Renovo area to be very appealing, and being > a bit more of a B&O fan than Pennsy, I've looked around for a connection such > as you mention. About as close as I can come with historical data regards > B&O's takeover of the BR&P. I gather that the B&O actually had serious > intentions of building a line between the Clearfield area and a Reading > connection at Newberry, but the railroad was always a bit short of cash and > the depression killed the idea. Doubtlessly there were corporate and political > hurdles stacked up against such a line and nothing ever developed. Sure would > have been fascinating though! And nothing says it can't happen in the > basement. > regards, > Barry Peltier > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: Your RR-related business can sponsor this list. > Contact jerry@dsop.com for details. Thank you. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: Your RR-related business can sponsor this list. Contact jerry@dsop.com for details. Thank you. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne Dibert" <102016.1343@worldnet.att.net> Subject: [PRR] ICQ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 22:14:16 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0123_01BE9356.C9734D80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry, since you have a great mailing going on here with good = interaction, have you ever considered having everyone getting a ICQ = number or AOL instant messenger. It could give us all the opportunity to = talk while we are on the computer at the same time that we are reading = or downloading. Wayne 102016.1343@worldnet.att.net ------=_NextPart_000_0123_01BE9356.C9734D80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jerry, since you have a great = mailing going on=20 here with good interaction, have you ever considered having everyone = getting a=20 ICQ number or AOL instant messenger. It could give us all the = opportunity to=20 talk while we are on the computer at the same time that we are reading = or=20 downloading.

Wayne

102016.1343@worldnet.att.net=

------=_NextPart_000_0123_01BE9356.C9734D80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: Your RR-related business can sponsor this list. Contact jerry@dsop.com for details. Thank you. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 02:40:37 -0500 From: "Marvin E. Crim" Subject: [PRR] IM 'n ICQ Nope...not really, but after all...it is the first of April. ;) -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "I live with 'FEAR' every day, but sometimes she lets me check the calendar." Until Later, Marvin 'n Ellen 'n Misty too MCrim1361@worldnet.att.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Whistle Posts and Crossbucks Date: Wed, 31 Mar 99 23:10:56 -0800 From: David >Hey I didn't think that there was another PRR guy this far North and West of >Pittsburgh, PA. David are you going to make the Salem, Or train Show this >weekend? I'll be there. We need to get together, I have a daughter and son- >in-law in Bremerton, WA. > Greg Martin Hey Greg, Hate to dissapoint, but I am not as much a PRR fan as a Pennsylvania Railroad fan. My favorite RR is the Reading Lines, followed by Strasburg and PRR. And I've already got plans for this weekend, but provided I am not deployed (Navy) I will go to GAT in Puyallup in November. But keep in touch and we can share what we are doing. I am hoping to get benchwork up in the next couple of weeks. I am trying to decide if I should build modular or a sectionalized table. (ie two 5x5 sections or something similiar.) Oak Harbor and Bremerton are on opposite sides of the sound,but wouldn't mind talking or sharing stuff if you get up the area. David Lind Oak Harbor, WA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] RE: Decals Date: Thu, 1 Apr 99 06:32:05 -0500 From: Jerry Bruce: Decals for the pilot are on their way. Two 12" keystones and two 18" keystones per unit, right? ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@dsop.com "Keystone Crossings" http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space available at http://www.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Thomas Fry" Subject: [PRR] TCA show york PA Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:54:27 -0500 Hey List: Who all is going to the show Apr 16-17 in York.. Is there a place where a "Jerry's Boy's" meet at the show..... tom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:07:40 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] X-42 paint scheme Hi Greg, This X42 thread is interesting. Pardon my nitpick of some dates: In a message dated 3/31/99 10:59:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, gas@fastinet.net writes: > My guess! > > The cars were first built in 1950 and probably carried the ball keystone for > one year maybe more before someone decided that since these cars only saw > head end service they should have the gold lettering and stripe scheme. > Certainly they would not have seen the shadow keystone before its' inception > in 1954. First appearing on the 20 X48's from Pullman Standard in February 1954, SK appeared in 4 versions up to June 1961. > Likewise it seems logical to assume that the non shadow keystone scheme > would not have been applied until its' debut , which I believe was the mid > 1960's. Brady McGuire's boxcar article (1988) says the plain keystone started in September 1961. My research on covered hopper lettering (watch future Keystones) shows that the only new covered hoppers built in 4th quarter 1961 still carried SK monograms, but drawings for PK on various covered hopper repaints were issued in early 1962. Of course, plain keystone continued through the mid-1960's and on to February 1968. BTW, I have knowledge of only a very few published photos of the X42. These include: Keystone 1979-1 p28 #2542 in CK (circle keystone) PRR Color Guide p84 #2541 in SK1b CBC 1953 p95 #2542 in passenger stripes (also same picture on p6, The Cars of the Pennsylvania Railroad. This raised the question, did more than this one car ever appear in this scheme?) Keystone 1979-1 p28 #2547 in SK2a Did I miss other photos of the PK (plain keystone) lettering? Rick Tipton ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: Decals (fwd) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:53:50 -0500 (EST) Bruce: > Decals for the pilot are on their way. Two 12" keystones and two 18" > keystones per unit, right? Decals for what? Something for your set of modules? (Should I be responding to PRRMO rather than prr-talk?) -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] TCA show york PA Date: Thu, 1 Apr 99 10:15:51 -0500 From: Jerry On 4/1/99 8:54 AM, Thomas Fry (blackhawk@csi.com) wrote: >Who all is going to the show Apr 16-17 in York.. > >Is there a place where a "Jerry's Boy's" meet at the show..... Sorry, no "Jerry's Kids" get-together...even though it's only 10 miles away. I've never been to this show. Don't know what its like. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRRMO] New Loco Project! (was Module Photos) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 99 10:18:45 -0500 From: Jerry On 4/1/99 9:11 AM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: >Well, I guess its time to 'fess up! A number of you have written private >emails to me asking about the locomotive in the Shellpot Module photos. >Most of you were correct in identifying it as a B-1, electric switcher. >However, several of you assumed, incorrectly that it was a brass model...In >fact, it is the "pilot" model for a resin B-1!!!!!! > >You may remember a number of months ago a thread about electric locos at >Harrisburg. During this time, Jerry identified a need for approximately 4 >B-1 locos to accurately depict the Harrisburg station - prohibitively $$$ >in brass!!! I wanted to scratchbuild a B-1 anyway, so we teamed up with a >resin shell manufacturer who would like to remain anonymous to produce a >limited run of B-1 parts. In order to finance this we are having them >produce approximately 200 shells, and associated parts, and we will be >selling the leftovers to pay for the cost of the run. Approximately 95 >"kits" will be available through Merchandise Service at: > >http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/rat.html Yeah, Bruce really blew it when he had the pilot visible in the photo of his module. We really didn't want to announce until we were a bit further a long. I'll forgive Bruce, eventually! Bruce did a great job of engineering this thing. Hopefully we'll get enough advance reservations to warrant the resin run. Take a look at the above URL for more details. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:11:00 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] New Loco Project! (was Module Photos) Hi Mark and All, Well, I guess its time to 'fess up! A number of you have written private emails to me asking about the locomotive in the Shellpot Module photos. Most of you were correct in identifying it as a B-1, electric switcher. However, several of you assumed, incorrectly that it was a brass model...In fact, it is the "pilot" model for a resin B-1!!!!!! You may remember a number of months ago a thread about electric locos at Harrisburg. During this time, Jerry identified a need for approximately 4 B-1 locos to accurately depict the Harrisburg station - prohibitively $$$ in brass!!! I wanted to scratchbuild a B-1 anyway, so we teamed up with a resin shell manufacturer who would like to remain anonymous to produce a limited run of B-1 parts. In order to finance this we are having them produce approximately 200 shells, and associated parts, and we will be selling the leftovers to pay for the cost of the run. Approximately 95 "kits" will be available through Merchandise Service at: http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/rat.html Jerry and I have set up this web page with a description of the "kit", which will include enough parts for 2 locos, as it uses the drive train parts of a GG-1. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ted.andrews@woolpert.com Date: Thu, 01 Apr 99 08:39:08 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR whistle posts Doug: Thank you for the advise regarding the use of Woodland Scenics latex for a mold and then using low temp metal for casting. I will give that a try later this spring. Also, Bob Zoeller mentioned a company called Signs Galore that has 3 different card stock sign sheets for the PRR. At $3 a sheet, this too could be cost effective. I agree with you to on how modelers have been spoiled over the years with manufacturers building everything for them. I think that modelers of the largest and most popular, such as the PRR, can be the most spoiled. The reason is that there are many PRR prototypes out in plastic, brass, resin, white metal, and wood. That has been going on for years and probably will continue. On the other hand, modelers of railroads such as the Wabash, Grand Trunk, New Haven, etc. are at a big disadvantage since there is not alot modeled in a given scale. It is these modelers who regularly have to kitbash and scratchbuild. I guess the main reason why I posted this thread was to find out if these whistle posts were still available but from someone else. Many times in this hobby, one company manufactures something, goes out of business, and then has its molds and tooling sold to another company which produces them. The Walthers acquistion of the Train Miniature rolling stock is just one example. Since Wabash Valley is out of business, perhaps someone has else has purchased the molds and tooling and is producing them. But your idea about latex molds and low temp metal is a good one and I will pursue it! Once again, thanks!! Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: PRR whistle posts Author: Doug Drew at Internet Date: 3/29/99 10:38 AM Saw your post on PRR-talk. Not familiar with these particular whistle posts (the models, that is). Is the lettering embossed onto the plastic, or are they merely painted on? If the former, have you ever considered making a rubber mold using Woodland Scenics rock casting latex and casting your own whistle posts, using the original part as a pattern? You could use Cerro-Safe (low-temp melting metal) for the casting material, I think, without ruining the molds. If the latter, how difficult would it be to make a photocopy of the part(s), and use those copies as patterns to trim appropriately-sized pieces of styrene? The problem then would be finding lettering of the correct size that "looked right". I wouldn't recommend dry transfer individual letters (for the crossbucks), unless you're into microsurgery. Someone posted a recommendation to use the 'Signs Galore' lettering, but I'm unfamiliar with that, too. I think we model railroaders as a group have become spoiled by having virtually EVERYTHING available already manufactured. Figuring out ways to make your own stuff for less than the exorbitant prices many manufacturers charge (and that's IF you can find it) can be a very rewarding part of the hobby. I plan to cast my PRR signal bridges and signal heads using IHC and Bachmann Plasticville signals/signal bridge parts as masters, as described above. Since most of my railroad will be double or multiple track with a lot of switchwork, $20 a pop for a signal bridge (list for the IHC bridge) can get into some real money, real fast. Hope this helps. -- Doug Drew ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Richard F. Makse" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRRMO] New Loco Project! (was Module Photos) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:39:51 -0500 Jerry wrote: > Bruce did a great job of engineering this thing. Hopefully we'll get > enough advance reservations to warrant the resin run. Take a look at the > above URL for more details. Having examined the details of this very carefully, I would make note that it is NOT necessary to use the GG-1 parts. Two Athearn Hustler drives can be easily utilized. Bruce failed to mention that the kit could further be modified to construct a very creditable B-4. Dick Makse ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: Decals (fwd) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 99 12:19:11 -0500 From: Jerry On 4/1/99 11:53 AM, Mark Bej (bejm@eeg.ccf.org) wrote: >> Decals for the pilot are on their way. Two 12" keystones and two 18" >> keystones per unit, right? > >Decals for what? >Something for your set of modules? > >(Should I be responding to PRRMO rather than prr-talk?) Mark: Bruce inadvertantly let it out of the bag that we've been working on resin B-1 "rat" electric locos. The photos of his PRRMO module clearly show the pilot model. I furthered the error by responding to his message with info about the decals. I did a "reply to sender" but it went to the list! Anyway, you can read about the loco project at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/rat.html ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:23:35 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] X-42 paint scheme In a message dated 4/1/99 10:27:51 AM Central Standard Time, RickTipton@aol.com writes: << CBC 1953 p95 #2542 in passenger stripes (also same picture on p6, The Cars of the Pennsylvania Railroad. This raised the question, did more than this one car ever appear in this scheme?) >> Also PP3, p. 372. You just raised the same question I have been pondering for the last week. Love the scheme, but was it only experimental for one car? I also bought a photo of #2548 in CK from Richard Burg collection. Looks like a bulder photo and date of building is given as 10-50. \Amazing how these cars don't show up in train action photos or videos; only thing scarcer is the silver scheme steel REA car of 1947 (finally caught a glimpse of the latter in Penn Valley Productions "Susquehanna Division" video). Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:49:04 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] X-42 paint scheme In a message dated 4/1/99 11:27:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, RickTipton@aol.com writes: > Did I miss other photos of the PK (plain keystone) lettering? Rick: The plain Keystone version is on page 18 of Vol. II of the Color Guide. It is car 2545 photographed June 1962 in the Spruce St. Coach Yard, Columbus, Oh. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PRRSignals" Subject: [PRR] ***ooops, fergot....** Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:22:01 -0500 ***I forgot to publicly thank all the folks who responded to my request for Altoona info ( passed to the prr-list from my pal al while I was on sabbatical leave...). The time spent in research and verification is very appreciated ! The materials and photos have been forwarded to the printer, and all who assisted will = of course = be mentioned and credited. The Altoona Booklet may be out as soon as July, and certainly will be available for Our August PRR Convention. It should be very informative, educational and interesting for all PRR fans ! Thx again, Bill******* ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PRRSignals" Subject: [PRR] ***Verifying wired trackage...Lines West folks can delete Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:13:24 -0500 ****Hi, all- Jerry has graciously paroled ( not pardoned...) me, so I may temporarily resume PRR discussions. Guess I have to check in each month with the PO ? parole officer ?). Can I nominate Al B., Bob B., Steve B. Barry P. or Dick M. for that position....???? Anyway, RE: the disscussion on electrical operations on the PRR. One method of Verifying electrified trackage on most railroads is to find that section in the ETT. For the PRR, it was typically Special Instruction 1167. This lists every track wired for electrical operation, and the limits if the entire track was not wired ( which is the case in yards such as Harrisburg, Enola, Meadows, etc.) where on some tracks there was just enough wire tracks to allow electric units to back in and couple to a track, etc. Of course, for the NY Div, AC =and DC= operations were listed, so as to also include the LIRR and NYNH&H operations. The CT290 Booklet mentioned previously only provides information regarding electrical operation, and does *not* specify the trackage so equipped, so that is of no help in researching and / or verifying wired trackage. Another verification source our group utilizes is the "Plate Order Diagram Books", which define pictorially each trolley section, and show entire areas, so as to reveal which tracks were wired and thus affected. As I happen to have it handy for other research, in PRR Philadelphia Region ETT #4 of Oct. 27, 1957, the Harrisburg area gets half of page 283. You may borrow if you wish, of course, but I thought that you copied that already from my 1954 PRR ETT...??? Thanks to Dr. Bruce for the B=rat models; wish you could scale them up 3 times for my scale ( G ) , they look great !!!! My GG-1 will have to its own drilling. Bill********** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Diaphragms and radio stickers From: Fred G Rea Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 22:35:29 EST Two rather unrelated questions: 1. I think I remember lots of head end cars with no diaphragms but a buffer at floor level that would contact the bottom of a diaphragm on the next car. Am I dreaming? If not what cars would they have been as I would to include same on some of my HO cars. 2. Why were "radio" stickers placed on later equipment of both PRR and other roads? Were they required if equipped with 2-way communications? Fred Rea ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 08:21:24 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Diaphragms and radio stickers Fred, Head end cars with no end doors, such as express reefers, frequently had those buffers. The part is available from Cal Scale in HO as part of the express reefer brake set. regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Fred G Rea wrote: > > Two rather unrelated questions: > > 1. I think I remember lots of head end cars with no diaphragms but a > buffer at floor level that would contact the bottom of a diaphragm on the > next car. Am I dreaming? If not what cars would they have been as I > would to include same on some of my HO cars. > > 2. Why were "radio" stickers placed on later equipment of both PRR and > other roads? Were they required if equipped with 2-way communications? > > Fred Rea ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Need Photo of Shark #2000 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 99 08:08:18 -0500 From: Jerry A calendar publisher has asked my help in locating a photo of Shark #2000 for use in a calendar for next year. Anyone have one or know of one? She was a BF-16 A unit, built in 1951. I checked Jack Hahn's book (Wither's Publishing) but there aren't any photos of her. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@dsop.com "Keystone Crossings" http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space available at http://www.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Need Two Mileposts Date: Fri, 2 Apr 99 10:22:20 -0500 From: Jerry I need two mile post references for research on my book "The Pennsylvania Railroad in York County, Pennsylvania", to be published by the PRRT&HS for the 2000 convention... First, I need a milepost reference for the Shocks Mill Bridge on the Atglen & Susquehanna Branch. Looking at the CT1000, the west connector with the Columbia Branch is at MP 89.5. The next entry is an "E.B. Back-off Siding" at MP 92.6. I don't know if this was east or west of the bridge. The next entry is Wago Junction at MP 94.6. So, Shocks Mill Bridge is somewhere between MP 89.5 and MP 93 or so. Second, I need a milepost reference for the Frederick Branch. I need to know where it passes from York County into Adams County. Outside of York, the line runs through Graybill, Bair, Spring Grove, Hanover, Sell, Littlestown, and Kingsdale before meeting the Maryland State Line. Somewhere along there is the Adams County line. Again, any photos of the lines in York County would be appreciated. Thanks. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@dsop.com "Keystone Crossings" http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space available at http://www.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:00:14 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] New Loco Project! (was Module Photos) >Bruce >Sounds great but I don't want to scrap one of my Gs . Think you could get >the side frams cast and use the Bowser wheels for the trucks. Well, the problem isn't the sideframes (the only GG1 components used would be the drivers, gears, motors, and perhaps pantographs) and I would have suggested Bowser drivers, except that we need 62" drivers WITHOUT counterweights. As far as I can tell...the only other way to do this would be to actually cast the centers, and buy NS rims...something I wasn't quite up to. Another minor technical point is that the center driver of the B1 was blind and the GG1 set is all flanged. Happy Rails, Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:46:31 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Diaphragms and radio stickers In a message dated 4/1/99 22:46:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, fredrea@juno.com writes: << Why were "radio" stickers placed on later equipment of both PRR and other roads? Were they required if equipped with 2-way communications? >> To the best of my knowledge they were not required but were a means of identifying those units equipped with radios without climbing into the locomotive. They were used on the PRR duirng the transition from Trainphones to radios. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Terminology Opinion Sought Date: Fri, 2 Apr 99 10:45:12 -0500 From: Jerry Another question for my York book: I am dividing the book by branches. The branches in York County are the Northern Central, the Atglen & Susquehanna, the York (former Wrightsville; former Wrightsville, York & Gettysburg), and the Frederick. The Northern Central will, by far, be the largest focus of the book. The confusion comes in for the stretch from Wago Junction north to the county line. The stretch of the Northern Central (originally the York & Cumberland) was the first railroad on this right-of-way. It was expanded to two tracks fairly early on. In 1902, the Atglen & Susquehanna (low-grade) was put it. From the county line southeast to Wago Junction, it shares the same right-of-way. There were four tracks side by side. From Wago on, the A&S carried its own RoW. I don't want duplicate sections in the book, so I want one line to reference "see the other xxx". Question is, where do I place the material and what do I call it? Do I place the Wago to county line section under the Northern Central Branch? I know if would not be appropriate to place it under the A&S, since the NCRy was already there. Or, do I "stop" the NCRy and the A&S at Wago and create a new section for Wago to the county line? In the 1945 CT1000, this stretch is referenced as the "York Haven Line". Interestingly, the York Haven Line and the A&S were operated by the Philadelphia Division; the NCRy, from Wago south, was operated by the Maryland Division (except a brief stint when there was a Harrisburg Division which controlled it to the Maryland state line). Your thoughts? ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@dsop.com "Keystone Crossings" http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space available at http://www.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PRRSignals" Subject: Re: [PRR] Need Two Mileposts Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:48:41 -0500 >I need two mile post references for research on my book "The Pennsylvania >Railroad in York County, Pennsylvania", to be published by the PRRT&HS >for the 2000 convention... > >First, I need a milepost reference for the Shocks Mill Bridge on the >Atglen & Susquehanna Branch. Looking at the CT1000, the west connector >with the Columbia Branch is at MP 89.5. The next entry is an "E.B. >Back-off Siding" at MP 92.6. I don't know if this was east or west of the >bridge. The next entry is Wago Junction at MP 94.6. So, Shocks Mill >Bridge is somewhere between MP 89.5 and MP 93 or so. *********prr phila region ett 4 of 10/27/57 shows (mileage from park, now....you might have to refigure......) shocks...45.4..........which was the interlocking on the east side of the bridge.. lg-54.....48.8 wago junction.....50.6 > >Second, I need a milepost reference for the Frederick Branch. I need to >know where it passes from York County into Adams County. Outside of York, >the line runs through Graybill, Bair, Spring Grove, Hanover, Sell, >Littlestown, and Kingsdale before meeting the Maryland State Line. >Somewhere along there is the Adams County line. > ***sorry, state lines ( at 41.1 ) are ususally shown in ETT's, county lines = need map, local knowledge.....bill** >Again, any photos of the lines in York County would be appreciated. >Thanks. > >----------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton jerry@dsop.com >"Keystone Crossings" http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! >Web space available at http://www.pennsyrr.com >----------------------------------------------- > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce >site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PRRSignals" Subject: Re: [PRR] Terminology Opinion Sought Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:05:06 -0500 ****in 1950 etc, that is referred to as the York Haven Line, and divided into two pairs. Might want to segregate this section as it was referred to individually and distinctly from the branches it then became on the east end. Back In 1936 it was shown as to be unified, as tracks #1-2-3-4. jus my thoughts....billl*** -----Original Message----- From: Jerry To: PRR-Talk Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 11:35 AM Subject: [PRR] Terminology Opinion Sought >Another question for my York book: > >I am dividing the book by branches. The branches in York County are the >Northern Central, the Atglen & Susquehanna, the York (former >Wrightsville; former Wrightsville, York & Gettysburg), and the Frederick. > >The Northern Central will, by far, be the largest focus of the book. The >confusion comes in for the stretch from Wago Junction north to the county >line. The stretch of the Northern Central (originally the York & >Cumberland) was the first railroad on this right-of-way. It was expanded >to two tracks fairly early on. > >In 1902, the Atglen & Susquehanna (low-grade) was put it. From the county >line southeast to Wago Junction, it shares the same right-of-way. There >were four tracks side by side. From Wago on, the A&S carried its own RoW. > >I don't want duplicate sections in the book, so I want one line to >reference "see the other xxx". Question is, where do I place the material >and what do I call it? > >Do I place the Wago to county line section under the Northern Central >Branch? I know if would not be appropriate to place it under the A&S, >since the NCRy was already there. > >Or, do I "stop" the NCRy and the A&S at Wago and create a new section for >Wago to the county line? In the 1945 CT1000, this stretch is referenced >as the "York Haven Line". > >Interestingly, the York Haven Line and the A&S were operated by the >Philadelphia Division; the NCRy, from Wago south, was operated by the >Maryland Division (except a brief stint when there was a Harrisburg >Division which controlled it to the Maryland state line). > >Your thoughts? > >----------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton jerry@dsop.com >"Keystone Crossings" http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! >Web space available at http://www.pennsyrr.com >----------------------------------------------- > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce >site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:32:14 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Diaphragms, BUFFER PLATES and radio stickers I first became aware of the "buffer plates" when building a "Red Ball" - pot metal and wood R50b more than 35 years ago. The kit included small rectangular castings to be mounted to the wood body through the end sill with escutcheon pins - and there were even recesses in both the end sill and buffer plate to hold the springs ! Neat detail for those days Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:21:47 -0600 Subject: [PRR] N-scale decals From: locoshop@juno.com Hello again, All you N scalers out there on this list I have a question for you. Where do you obtain N scale PRR decals? I am looking for sets that would be for hopper cars with the Circle Keystone specifically. I am looking to try and maybe take a bunch of the MDC 3 bay hoppers and paint them up in freight car red and decal them for H21s (please do not shoot me). Or is there a more correct version of hopper car out there to use that I could make a large unit coal train with to run with my pair of L1s (still in the conversion phase as of yet). Thanks. Jeremy Helms Omaha, Nebraska locoshop@juno.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:55:03 EST Subject: [PRR] Lost communications and the Jack Fravert collection (.doc Gize, Computers only let you down when it's important, right? My AOL installation picked Thursday to crash, taking with it all the mail (in and out) about lists of hardware for sale out of the Jack Fravert collection. If you sent me a message in the last few days, please resend it. If you couldn't open the Word documents I sent last time, you might have more luck with the attachment to this document, which is again Word 97. For those of you needing .txt files instead, I'm trying to build a text version; it will be attached to a later posting. Thanks for all your interest in Jack's collection. Keep in mind we're only doing hardware now. Later on there'll be railroad silver, ETT's, and a huge number of public timetables and "tourist pamphlets" issued by railroads. Stay tuned. Rick Tipton Louisville KY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:07:54 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Diaphragms and radio stickers In a message dated 4/1/99 10:46:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, fredrea@juno.com writes: << 2. Why were "radio" stickers placed on later equipment of both PRR and other roads? Were they required if equipped with 2-way communications? >> Indication of UHF radios installed, versus the old low-frequency inductive train phone. It would have been a way to know what locomotive cabs/cabin cars weren't yet converted. Rick Tipton ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 15:01:59 -0500 From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: [PRR] Routing to Altoona Good afternoon PRR listers, I have a question for you south-central PA denizens: I am going to be going to Gettsburg in a week or so for some vacation. Had wanted to get to Altoona while in the "area." Then I was reminded of the typical PA geography and Geology (LaSalle '68) where the valleys run SW to NE. I'd appreciate routing and drive time info. My map shows US30 as a possibility to go "cross-country" before heading North. In my mind there is "direct" mileage and direct "time" when the mileage may be shorter, but the time route is less of a hassle. Your advise is appreciated. To save Jerry disk space/bandwidth/heart attack off list might be a good idea, unless there is some other SPF out there with the same question. Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] N-scale decals Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 14:10:18 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell On 2 Apr, locoshop@juno.com wrote: > All you N scalers out there on this list I have a question for you. > Where do you obtain N scale PRR decals? I am looking for sets > that would be for hopper cars with the Circle Keystone specifically. I believe that CDS makes appropiate dry transfers, but I can't help you on the part numbers. My catalog is behind the counter at the store... :-) > I am looking to try and maybe take a bunch of the MDC 3 bay > hoppers and paint them up in freight car red and decal them for > H21s (please do not shoot me). Aren't those cars closer to the H39? Or is that too late for you (it is for me, and I've been seriously tempted). Nobody makes a reasonable four-bay ribside that I know of. Too bad. > Or is there a more correct version > of hopper car out there to use that I could make a large unit coal > train with to run with my pair of L1s (still in the conversion phase > as of yet). You do know that MT's 56000 and 57000 shells are reasonable versions of the H31, H31A and H31B? If you putty up the plank seams on the 57000 (damned picky job, too), you would get an H31C. MT has produced six H31s and an H31B; they also did a "Buy War Bonds" GLa on the 56000 shell (close, but not real close). Good luck! Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 17:08:08 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Need Two Mileposts In a message dated 99-04-02 11:12:02 EST, jerry@dsop.com writes: << First, I need a milepost reference for the Shocks Mill Bridge >> "PRR 1950 Track Charts, Vol. 1", reproduced by Rails Northeast, McKeesport, PA (date unknown, but I've had it for eons) shows the Susquehanna River bridge to occupy most of the distance between MP 46 and 47 (these would be from Park). The York/ Lancaster county line, presumably mid-river, is shown exactly halfway between the two MP's. The Manchester/Hellam township line and the Codorus Creek undercrossing are shown just barely east of MP 47. Shocks is shown at about MP 45.4 Hope this helps. Unfortunately, the book does not cover the Frederick Branch. But the fact that this type of reproduction, with all the county/township lines, exists would indicate that there must be similar charts of the branch out there somewhere. Rich Copeland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 16:56:15 -0500 From: Drew McGhee Subject: Re: [PRR] Routing to Altoona Tom, US Rt 30 West to I 99 North at Bedford should get you to Altoona from Gettsyburg in around 3 hours. However, I believe that there is ongoing construction of US 30 between Breezewood and Bedford. In that event, just jump on the PA Turnpike, head west and get off at the Bedford / I 99 Exit. I think the toll is even waved for the short jaunt to get folks away from the construction. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA drm6@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ At 03:01 PM 4/2/99 -0500, Tom Mahon wrote: >Good afternoon PRR listers, >I have a question for you south-central PA denizens: I am going to be >going to Gettsburg in a week or so for some vacation. Had wanted to get >to Altoona while in the "area." Then I was reminded of the typical PA >geography and Geology (LaSalle '68) where the valleys run SW to NE. I'd >appreciate routing and drive time info. My map shows US30 as a >possibility to go "cross-country" before heading North. In my mind there >is "direct" mileage and direct "time" when the mileage may be shorter, >but the time route is less of a hassle. Your advise is appreciated. To >save Jerry disk space/bandwidth/heart attack off list might be a good >idea, unless there is some other SPF out there with the same question. > >Tom Mahon >Merrimack, NH ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Thanks for the buffer and radio info From: Fred G Rea Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 17:21:45 EST Thanks to all for the info on buffers and radio stickers. As for the buffers, were they on any of the passenger service merchandize/box cars (X29 etc)? Fred Rea ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Need Two Mileposts Date: Fri, 2 Apr 99 20:22:34 -0500 From: Jerry On 4/2/99 5:08 PM, PRRMAN@aol.com (PRRMAN@aol.com) wrote: > >"PRR 1950 Track Charts, Vol. 1", reproduced by Rails Northeast, >McKeesport, PA (date unknown, but I've had it for eons) shows >the Susquehanna River bridge to occupy most of the distance >between MP 46 and 47 (these would be from Park). The York/ >Lancaster county line, presumably mid-river, is shown exactly >halfway between the two MP's. The Manchester/Hellam township >line and the Codorus Creek undercrossing are shown just barely >east of MP 47. Shocks is shown at about MP 45.4 > >Hope this helps. Unfortunately, the book does not cover the >Frederick Branch. But the fact that this type of reproduction, >with all the county/township lines, exists would indicate that >there must be similar charts of the branch out there somewhere Thanks. Dan Cupper pointed me to a track chart which I have (right under my nose) that shows the mileposts and county lines. Boy, what was I thinking! Shocks Mill data is right on. Frederick Branch appears to hit Adams County around MP 32.8...between Hanover (York Co.) and Littlestown (Adams Co.). ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@dsop.com "Keystone Crossings" http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space available at http://www.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Stephen Bernas" Subject: [PRR] Greetigns from a silent observer Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:58:25 -0500 Greetings all. I have been one of the many silent observes for many months now and have greatly enjoyed the wealth on knowledge I lave learned from this list. Being a computer programmer and starting to write html and asp pages at work I have been toying with the idea of setting up my own little corner of the web with some Pennsy content. Well, finally dove in full throttle and placed some stuff on the web. My first great project is converting my ever growing collection of Pennsy magazines into HTML for easier searching and viewing. So far I have done March and May of 53 and am working on August of 53. The site is located at www.erols.com/bernass1. If you are interested, take a look and tell me what you think. If you're not, you're not missing much. The rest of the site really does nothing. I'm not even sure if I like the layout and the categories but I at least have something up. The Once you are at the site, click on library and go from there. Stephen Bernas Bernass1@erols.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 06:33:58 -0800 From: Frank Bagrash Subject: [PRR] LIRR paint scheme Hi, Atlas has just rereleased the RS-1 (HO scale) letterd for the LIRR and painted in a dark gray with red many-contoured midline stripe going from the end to the nose. Does anybody know during which years the LIRR used this paint scheme? Thanks, Frank -- Frank M. Bagrash, Ph.D. 714-278-2669 Department of Psychology 714-278-7134 (Fax) P.O. Box 6846 California State University Fullerton, California 92834-6846 E-mail: fbagrash@fullerton.edu Boogie gently, babies ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alan Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Need Two Mileposts Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 21:47:21 -0500 -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of PRRMAN@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 02, 1999 5:08 PM To: jerry@dsop.com; prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Need Two Mileposts In a message dated 99-04-02 11:12:02 EST, jerry@dsop.com writes: Rich stated: But the fact that this type of reproduction, with all the county/township lines, exists would indicate that there must be similar charts of the branch out there somewhere. ---------------------------- Municipal, county and state boundaries are usually shown on PRR track charts. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 17:32:35 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] New Loco Project! (was Module Photos) From: Patrick M Egan There might be something British that might give you the drivers you need. They were fond of outside frame inside connected locomotives, and some of their locomotives had pretty big trailing truck wheels. If this is a possible, the scratch build list may hold some promise, since it's ever so British. 63 inches in HO is 55 1/4 inches in OO scale if I did the math right. Pat Egan (no web access) On Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:00:14 -0600 "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." writes: >>Bruce >>Sounds great but I don't want to scrap one of my Gs . Think you could >get >>the side frams cast and use the Bowser wheels for the trucks. > >Well, the problem isn't the sideframes (the only GG1 components used >would >be the drivers, gears, motors, and perhaps pantographs) and I would >have >suggested Bowser drivers, except that we need 62" drivers WITHOUT >counterweights. As far as I can tell...the only other way to do this >would >be to actually cast the centers, and buy NS rims...something I wasn't >quite >up to. Another minor technical point is that the center driver of the >B1 >was blind and the GG1 set is all flanged. > >Happy Rails, >Bruce > >Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. >Scott-Ritchey Research Center >334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) >http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > >There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave >Barry > >PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com > _ _ > / \ / \ > ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ > |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| > | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | > |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| > | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new >eCommerce >site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PRRSignals" Subject: [PRR] ***Rockville Remembered*** Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 23:05:55 -0500 ****The PRR Mutual has reminded us of another project: The movement to get "our" bridge remembered..... The Rockville Bridge U.S.Stamp Committee continues to request your help in an effort in urging the Citizens Advisory Committee to have a U. S. Postage Stamp issued to honor the bridge. Please write a letter to: Citizens Stamp Committee, U. S. Postal Service, Stamp Development, Room 4474-E, 4751 L'Enfant Plaza SW, Washington, DC 20260-2437. Please CC to: Dorothy Hammaker, 116 Williams Street, Marysville, PA 17053. This has the support of Mayor Reed of Harrisburg, among many others !!! Please write !!! In a sad note, Walker K. Hancock passed away at 97 on Dec. 30, 1998. He was the sculptor who concocted the 39 foot high artistic masterpiece, " Angel of Resurrection" that stands in the grand concourse of 30th Street Station, Philadelphia. This was commissioned in 1947 by the PRR to honor WW2 RR employees killed in action. Thanks to friend and NARVRE co-member Tod Beadle for this note. For those of you near Philly, we just went to the Franklin Museum recently things to do while banned from the PRR-LIST....) and the Short Film Subject at the IMAX surround theatre features the face-lifted insides of 30th Street Station, with this statue in prominent view !! The 'operating' Baldwin steam locomotive 60000 is still functioning, and a G scale layout has been added, which visitors may operate !!! A neat place for RR'ers. bill******* ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 23:51:09 -0500 From: John Ryan Subject: [PRR] PRR Video I can't get any response at the Mark I Video site. Has anybody had any luck? Any comments on the two new PRR videos? John Ryan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 21:35:28 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Catenary From: locoshop@juno.com Hello all, I just was looking through my new MR and saw a small ad from Model Memories. They are advertising PRR style catenary. I was wondering if anyone has used them? If so what have been your experiences with it, good or bad. Thanks for any help. This question is spawned by the announced B1s and the possibility of doing a display. Jeremy Helms Omaha, Nebraska locoshop@juno.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PRRSignals" Subject: [PRR] ***PRR Radio freq's..* Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 23:40:40 -0500 ***I may have noted a reference to the PRR Radio frequencies during a discussion, actually they were VHF....160.80 MHz, common road channel, among many others used, all in the VHF Range back then. Yes, the Radio sticker merely ( and proudly !!!) indicated the equipment was installed, locos, cabins and Towers ! This was touted as they 'modernized' the PRR. Bill, WA2HRV******** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 18:57:22 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Routing to Altoona From: locoshop@juno.com Tom, The Bedford exit is number 11 (unless it has changed since my being to Bedford 2 years ago). On Fri, 02 Apr 1999 16:56:15 -0500 Drew McGhee writes: >Tom, > >US Rt 30 West to I 99 North at Bedford should get you to Altoona from >Gettsyburg in around 3 hours. However, I believe that there is >ongoing >construction of US 30 between Breezewood and Bedford. In that event, >just >jump on the PA Turnpike, head west and get off at the Bedford / I 99 >Exit. >I think the toll is even waved for the short jaunt to get folks away >from >the construction. > >Drew R. McGhee >Altoona, PA >drm6@psu.edu >http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ > > >At 03:01 PM 4/2/99 -0500, Tom Mahon wrote: >>Good afternoon PRR listers, >>I have a question for you south-central PA denizens: I am going to >be >>going to Gettsburg in a week or so for some vacation. Had wanted to >get >>to Altoona while in the "area." Then I was reminded of the typical >PA >>geography and Geology (LaSalle '68) where the valleys run SW to NE. >I'd >>appreciate routing and drive time info. My map shows US30 as a >>possibility to go "cross-country" before heading North. In my mind >there >>is "direct" mileage and direct "time" when the mileage may be >shorter, >>but the time route is less of a hassle. Your advise is appreciated. >To >>save Jerry disk space/bandwidth/heart attack off list might be a >good >>idea, unless there is some other SPF out there with the same >question. >> >>Tom Mahon >>Merrimack, NH Jeremy Helms Omaha, Nebraska locoshop@juno.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PRRSignals" Subject: [PRR] ***Follow the Broad Way to Altoona !!*** Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 23:32:21 -0500 ***At the risk of annoying Jerry ( again...) this may be of interest to many, as the August '99 PRR Convention is in Altoona. Tom et al: >From Gettysburg, follow Route 15 North right into Camp Hill, stay with it to west of Duncannon, where you will get on Route 22 west. Follow that all the way out to Water Street ( strange town name...) and then Route 45 to Tyrone. >From there, Route 220 into Altoona. With this routing you will be near ( if not immediately parallel !! ) to the Broad Way for the entire trip. Brief Side trips will get you into RR locations easily along the way. Adjacent highlights include: The Lemoyne junction area, Hbg bridge, Enola Yard, Rockville Bridge, various pacing stretches ! etc. Looks about 4 hours, add for desired detours. Back on 9/29/77, our group of Joisey PRR'ers chased ConRail's Hottest Train, Mail #11 along this route, catching him six times !!!! A real tribute to the Ed Martin / Joe Jack Skool of Driving !!!!!! ( A Rental car, thank Goodness !!). Our mad dash side trip at Thompsontown resulted in the Cover picture for Feb 1978 Rails Northeast, down on from the signal bridge, no less. Taken by skinny Engineer Steve Bonscher, nicknamed "Spider" for some unknown reason...?! The topper was then beating him at MO / Cresson at sundown one last time. You will love this trip !!! Bill****** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 23:32:02 -0500 From: Elliot Fishbein and/or Eileen Kolbasuk Subject: [PRR] LIRR paint scheme Hello, The LIRR paint scheme on the Atlas RS-1 was known as the "World's Fair" scheme. It first appeared at the end of 1963 and was around at least until 1967 or 1968. I hope this helps. Elliot ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 23:58:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRRMO] New Loco Project! (was Module Photos) From: James K Bunger AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AlbertSR@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:51:35 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] New Loco Project! (was Module Photos) In a message dated 4/2/99 9:13:43 AM Central Standard Time, smithbf@mail.auburn.edu writes: << Well, the problem isn't the sideframes (the only GG1 components used would be the drivers, gears, motors, and perhaps pantographs) and I would have suggested Bowser drivers, except that we need 62" drivers WITHOUT counterweights. As far as I can tell...the only other way to do this would be to actually cast the centers, and buy NS rims...something I wasn't quite up to. Another minor technical point is that the center driver of the B1 was blind and the GG1 set is all flanged. Happy Rails, Bruce >> OK, Guys, Time to fess up. The web page I looked at said this was a April fools day joke, But the conversation is now getting serious, we're talking scrapping GG-1's for drive components. Is this a joke or is there ANY remote possibility of these little beauties coming to fruition in resin. If so I definitelty have to get my reservation in. Slobbering all the way Al Stump ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Prr1187@aol.com Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 00:55:23 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] SW-? >From Edwin Alexander's book "The Pennsylvania Railroad", a photo of the class A6b number 3907 is shown along with AA6 number 3909, which clearly shows the short stacks. The former was listed as PRR's first diesel electric, which makes the 3908 the second, etc. Yanosey's books claim the 3907 was built in 1930. It does look very different in that it was short in length and only had 4 wheels. The AA6 numbers 3905 & 3906 (that Cos references) were shown as gasoline electrics by Alexander, the former built 1928 & the later 1929 according to Yanosey. Regards, Dennis S, Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PRRSignals" Subject: [PRR] ***rre: Mark I video...*** Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 01:23:25 -0500 ***John and all- When I was on my NYS&W E unit cab ride near Marc Balkin's vicinity, I had heard that....< rumor has it >....that he was allegedly arrested and had material confiscated due to alleged involvement with porno, underage, etc., types of problems. A pal is searching the old newspapers now for verification. He never did give my engineer pal the tape he made last year and promised him...... billl**** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:29:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] K4s Headlight Guys, Off the top of your head, does anyone know for sure or have a photo showing a K4s besides #1737, with the oil burning headlight? Or am I correct in assuming that after the production runs had begun the electic headlight came into being? I have about 325 of the 425 K4's represented on photos but none if any date into the teens to show proof. Any quaified opinions? Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 08:53:15 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] Catenary Jeremy, Model Memories has had a beautiful display of their products at a number of model rr shows. I am not in HO so can't comment directly - but the have a good looking line that also includes under-running 3d rail and New Haven style catenary. They have a web site at http://www.info-4u.com/modelmemories/mproduct.htm Steve Bartlett Drooling in O scale locoshop@juno.com wrote: > > Hello all, > > I just was looking through my new MR and saw a small > ad from Model Memories. They are advertising PRR style > catenary. I was wondering if anyone has used them? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 09:43:17 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Greetigns from a silent observer Stephen: Site looks good and the Pennsy is a topic not available on other sites. So you are definitely filling a void. One comment, you may not be aware that the correct name of the structure in the opening photograph is Pittsburgh Union Station. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Stephen R. (Steve) Sejda" Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 09:26:20 -0500 Subject: [PRR] USPS Stamps To Feature GG1 Greetings to the Group, I was in the USPS website checking out postal rates and decided to browse the 1999 Stamp Program. The "All Aboard!" series, to be released sometime this year, contains 5 Ted Rose images which includes a GG1 Hauling the Congressional. No release date given. The website 'splains the rest. Here's the link to view the stamps: http://www.usps.gov/images/stamps/99/all_aboard.htm Enjoy! Steve ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 11:34:48 -0500 From: John Ryan Subject: Re: [PRR] USPS Stamps To Feature GG1 I believe I've seen an Aug. 26th release date somewhere on the USPS site. Stephen R. (Steve) Sejda wrote: > > Greetings to the Group, > > I was in the USPS website checking out postal rates and decided > to browse the 1999 Stamp Program. The "All Aboard!" series, to be > released sometime this year, contains 5 Ted Rose images which > includes a GG1 Hauling the Congressional. No release date given. > The website 'splains the rest. > > Here's the link to view the stamps: > > http://www.usps.gov/images/stamps/99/all_aboard.htm > > Enjoy! > > Steve > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce > site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:39:47 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] ***rre: Mark I video...*** In a message dated 4/3/99 1:08:57 AM Central Standard Time, prrsignals@adelphia.net writes: << ..< rumor has it >....that he was allegedly arrested and had material confiscated due to alleged involvement with porno, underage, etc., types of problems. A pal is searching the old newspapers now for verification. >> The press reported he had been arrested in a sting wherein the 14-year-old girl he went to meet on a date set up on the internet turned out to be a male adult FBI agent. That was all that was reported, at least in the newspaper account I saw. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DZJN21A@prodigy.com (MR CHARLES J CHANDLER II) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:52:29, -0500 Subject: [PRR] Catenary Jeremy, I have seen their catenary sys. at my local hobby shop and believe it is the most accurate PRR sys. in HO scale to date. It really builds up into a very nice looking sys. However, I must caution you when installing catenary around curves, esp. if you will be running GG1's along with all other PRR electric motors. The pantographs of the G's hang out farther, making the location of contact wires extremely important.This might be difficult when using their pre-determined lengths of catenary wire, esp. when multi-track curves of model railroading radius are used. Of course, this will not be a problem if you are planning on just a straight line display. Charlie C. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 13:43:19 -0500 From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: Re: [PRR] K4s Headlight Howdy All: Check out Pennsy Power I, pages 166, 175, 182 and 183. And I have a picture of 1120 (?) with train #24 on the Curve somtime in the 191? on my site at - http://www.concentric.net/~wsbcos/Prr.htm . cos wsbcos.com > Guys, > > Off the top of your head, does anyone know for sure or have a > photo showing a K4s besides #1737, with the oil burning headlight? Or am > I correct in assuming that after the production runs had begun the > electic headlight came into being? I have about 325 of the 425 K4's > represented on photos but none if any date into the teens to show > proof. Any quaified opinions? Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RLA0220@webtv.net (RICHARD ADER) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:46:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Keystone Article research Jerry, Mark Bej, and group, Is there anyone out there with information to share about the Bel-Del? (Stretch of the Pennsy form Fair tower off the NEC in Trenton, up the Delaware river to G tower in Belvidere) This in addition to Warren Lee's Book. My specific interest lies with G tower and the closing there of. According to our late friend Jim Lynch, G closed in January of 1972. Can anyone tell me who the last operators of G were/are. Thanks Rich Ader ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 16:41:11 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] ***rre: Mark I video...*** Bill & folks, Someone had made an earlier posting on the subject of Mark I's "temporary suspension of service" (for probably the next seven to ten years). The posting had a scanned copy of the news article and it seems Mark had indeed fallen into an FBI ambush. Upon seeing that the 14 year old of his dreams was actually a gun-toting fed our erstwhile producer of reasonably priced tapes made a bid for freedom that included a short but high speed chase and an attempt to run down an agent. I gather a few well-placed shots brought a little reason into the proceedings, as well as adding some weight to the charges. Mark's wife, when asked for opinions by reporters, declined comment. Ah well, he didn't have that much B&O stuff anyway. Maybe they can find him a job taping the trains of Kosovo . But in all seriousness, I'm glad they got another predator off the streets. Barry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PRRSignals" Subject: [PRR] ***Marc I Video....balkanized !!!!** Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 19:43:04 -0500 ***Thanks, Bob Z... The story I got about Marc Balkan < verbally > from the RR and fan locals *allegedly* involved *gunfire, car chases* and some really strange goings-on. Awaiting a snail mail confirm, I better wait before saying more. " Don't make promises you never intended to keep "...........Bill*** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ted.andrews@woolpert.com Date: Sat, 03 Apr 99 16:42:41 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] ***PRR Radio freq's..* Bill: As far as the PRR's Radio sticker is concerned, do you know the approximate time that this sticker started showing up on equipment? Was is 1965 or 1966? Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: [PRR] ***PRR Radio freq's..* Author: "PRRSignals" at Internet Date: 4/3/99 12:08 AM ***I may have noted a reference to the PRR Radio frequencies during a discussion, actually they were VHF....160.80 MHz, common road channel, among many others used, all in the VHF Range back then. Yes, the Radio sticker merely ( and proudly !!!) indicated the equipment was installed, locos, cabins and Towers ! This was touted as they 'modernized' the PRR. Bill, WA2HRV******** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PRRSignals" Subject: [PRR] ***The Franklin Museum, also for Diesel fans !!!!** Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 23:38:56 -0500 **Thx, and aloha back to you, Eric !!! For the modern diesel fans, they have added a CR half-of-a-loco-cab set-up, control stand and all !!! ( Not a Baldwin shark, sadly....!!!). looks like a second generation GP / SD EMD cab. It was a bit beat up and vandalized, but mostly intact. Bill****** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 17:35:35 -1000 From: "Eric J. Minton" Subject: Re: [PRR] ***Rockville Remembered*** Aloha Nice to here the Baldwin is still there, I first saw it when I was a teenager. Just after I moved away a layout was built, when I next got back in the area it had been removed. This was 6 or 8 years ago. I hope this layout is still there when I get back, before another 30 years goes by. Thanks Eric At 11:05 PM 4/2/99 -0500, PRRSignals wrote: >For those of you near Philly, we just went to the Franklin Museum recently > things to do while banned from the PRR-LIST....) and the Short Film Subject >at the IMAX surround theatre features the face-lifted insides of 30th Street >Station, with this statue in prominent view !! The 'operating' Baldwin steam >locomotive 60000 is still functioning, and a G scale layout has been added, >which visitors may operate !!! A neat place for RR'ers. >bill******* ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PRRSignals" Subject: [PRR] ****Balkanized.....and info on G Tower, Belvidere, NJ...*** Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 22:22:56 -0500 ***Thanks, Barry !!! The info on Marc B. kind of wraps up that rail tale...!!!! And for Rich Ader: possibly I can get in touch with brother PRR Block Operator Dick Forest, who worked "G" Tower near that time, pray he remembers !!! I spent many happy afternoons with Dick, and rides on those pretty L&HR Alco C-420's. Freddy Strausvogel was the regular first trick Opr, will try him also. If not, Our old PRR Tower Assignment clerk is in our NARVRE ( National Association of Retired and Veteran Railway Employees ) group, and *possibly* he might recall. Let you know, all are snail mail contacts, sorry..... BTW, as NARVRE < paid political announcement...> supports and assists ALL railroaders with poltical and pension matters, I strongly suggest that any Rails on this list, active or not, join up !!! Please email me for more info, gladly sent !!! Thx, Bill, treasurer NARVRE Unit #137, red bank, nj...where i get to see and chat with PRR and CNJ RR friends from three decades ago each month !! What a great ( but free...) job !! PRR questions gladly relayed to this resource of information and verification...**** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ted.andrews@woolpert.com Date: Sat, 03 Apr 99 21:26:57 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Need Photo of Shark #2000 Jerry: I think that there was a photo of Number 2000 that appearred in the Keystone. Right around 1990-91, there were 2-3 articles published in the Keystone about "Trainspotting at Thorndale." The articles were written by a former PRR car/high-wide inspector who worked out of Thorndale. I think that one of the photos that he took was Number 2000 roaring through on a freight. I do not have any "Keystones" in front of me so I am drawing all of this out of my feeble memory. Ted Andrews ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: [PRR] Need Photo of Shark #2000 Author: Jerry at Internet Date: 4/2/99 8:08 AM A calendar publisher has asked my help in locating a photo of Shark #2000 for use in a calendar for next year. Anyone have one or know of one? She was a BF-16 A unit, built in 1951. I checked Jack Hahn's book (Wither's Publishing) but there aren't any photos of her. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@dsop.com "Keystone Crossings" http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space available at http://www.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] Strausburg Museum Photos Archives Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 21:35:29 -0800 I am told that there is a photos of the Renovo Roundhouse listed on the list of photos for sale from the museum at Strausburg. If anyone has the list handy could you help me out with the number of this photo or any others they have and the manner to order them? Thanks, Greg Stone PRRT&HS member Special interest in Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PRRSignals" Subject: [PRR] ***Shark #2000....*** Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 00:23:23 -0500 ***Not so feeble a memory, Ted !!! Think that you are right !!! Cannot find it, tho'. I just spent a pleasant hour looking thru my collection of Keystones, but only turned up Frt shark # 2015 on the point of an A-B-A set at Thorndale, photographed by Eugene Foster. ( pg 18, Summer 1995).....bill**** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 11:07:40 -0400 From: Danny Seymour Subject: [PRR] Re: K4s Headlight Gary Page 267 of "The Pennsylvania Railroad A Pictorial History" by Edwin Alexander shows a K4 with the oil lamp. If you don't have a copy email me and I will scan it for you. Dan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 15:03:29 EDT Subject: [PRR] Videos The new Keystone reviews Vol. 4,5, and 6 of Railroad Video Productions PRR offerings. . Lists the content and says they are a worthwhile buy. Not sure what that means. I have Vol. 2 and consider it perhaps the worst video I have in my collection. The content is OK, but the quality of the photography is terrible. Before I buy another (the content of Vol 5 intrigues me) has anyone on the list purchased any of these later volumes and do they have an opinion as to quality of reproduction? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ted.andrews@woolpert.com Date: Sun, 04 Apr 99 12:39:08 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] ***Shark #2000....*** Bill and Jerry: My curiosity got the best of me. I looked too through my Keystones last night. I found it but it was not in the early 1990's. It turned out to be in the Summer 1984 Keystone. The author is Robert Harris who wrote a couple of articles on Thorndale. The photo of #2000 is not the best in quality but the author stated that the train caught him by surprise. Still, it is a photo of 2000 nonetheless Ted Andrews Carmel Indiana ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: [PRR] ***Shark #2000....*** Author: "PRRSignals" at Internet Date: 4/4/99 12:53 AM ***Not so feeble a memory, Ted !!! Think that you are right !!! Cannot find it, tho'. I just spent a pleasant hour looking thru my collection of Keystones, but only turned up Frt shark # 2015 on the point of an A-B-A set at Thorndale, photographed by Eugene Foster. ( pg 18, Summer 1995).....bill**** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 17:25:07 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Videos Bob, I picked up some of their tapes a couple years ago (#'s 3, 29 and others) and have found the quality very dependant on the original films. I think #29 is quite good, and #3 is ok,with my compaint more on the photo work than the video. I guess what I mean is the guy shooting the original didn't frame all the shoots real good, while other parts of the tape are just fine. Their B&O tape is excellant in quality, fully the equal of tapes costing more than twice as much. And their price is good. Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Strausburg Museum Photos Archives Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:43:23 -0400 Greg, I visited the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania in Strasburg today to check on your photo request. Unfortunately, while very polite and helpful, they could not allow me access to the library/archives because of it being both a Sunday and a holiday. I was told that if you call during the week (717) 687-8628 and ask for either George Deeming (curator) or Kurt Bell (archivist), they will help you find what you are looking for. Best of luck. Jerry Breon -----Original Message----- From: Greg Stone To: PRR talk Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 2:46 AM Subject: [PRR] Strausburg Museum Photos Archives >I am told that there is a photos of the Renovo Roundhouse listed on the list >of photos for sale from the museum at Strausburg. If anyone has the list >handy could you help me out with the number of this photo or any others they >have and the manner to order them? >Thanks, > Greg Stone >PRRT&HS member >Special interest in Renovo Yards > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce >site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alan Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Strausburg Museum Photos Archives Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 21:30:45 -0400 -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of jbreon Sent: Sunday, April 04, 1999 6:43 PM To: Greg Stone; PRR talk Subject: Re: [PRR] Strausburg Museum Photos Archives Greg, My experience has been if you want to do research at Strasburg they are available only on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Kurt Bell is an extremely nice guy and very helpful. I would suggest contacting him by e-mail first, letting him know what you want to do and if an appointment is necessary. Kurt Bell = frm@redrose.net Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 20:11:48 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Videos From: Patrick M Egan I had a similar problem. I talked to him on the phone, and was able to return the tape for a later one that he suggested, which was somewhat better. The problem is apparently that the original 8mm is often typical Kodak Brownie quality - OK for a movie of Aunt Sadie walking her poodle, but with the camera state of the art 1947, set at f/8 and permanently focused at 15 feet, doesn't work too well on a T1 (Reading, Pennsy or Northern Pacific, your choice) at 150 feet. Call the man up and complain to him. You might get something you like in exchange. Pat Egan (no web access) On Sun, 4 Apr 1999 15:03:29 EDT Bobspf@aol.com writes: >The new Keystone reviews Vol. 4,5, and 6 of Railroad Video Productions >PRR >offerings. . Lists the content and says they are a worthwhile buy. >Not sure >what that means. >I have Vol. 2 and consider it perhaps the worst video I have in my >collection. The content is OK, but the quality of the photography is >terrible. Before I buy another (the content of Vol 5 intrigues me) >has >anyone on the list purchased any of these later volumes and do they >have an >opinion as to quality of reproduction? > >Bob Zoeller > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new >eCommerce >site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] TAN: Craig Bisgeier's Site? Date: Mon, 5 Apr 99 10:58:51 -0400 From: Jerry Anyone know where Craig Bisgeier's site has moved to? The old URL's return errors; they were at http://www.microdsi.net/cbisgeier/ Craig isn't on the PRR list, but his site has a lot of operations/design stuff that I was linked to. I think he is involved with the Layout Design SIG. Since there are members of the SIG on the list, I was hoping someone could hook us up. Thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:57:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR T1 PRR Modelers, Anyone interesed in a Bowser/Pennline T1? I have one listed on ebay. It can be viewed at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayiSAPi.dll?viewitem&item=86917010 The picture is a little dark but if you read the discription you get the ides what it is. I also plan on listing an HO scale Brass Gem N1 2-10-2 and a J1 2-10-4. I am not sure of the make on this one. Either HO Train Company or AHM. I always thought they were one in the same. Right now this is an unpowered loco with correct 69' drivers. It should go to someone with experiance in tinkering with things. You can expect them to be listed later this week. I am upgrading my equipment and these are becoming disposable. Thanks for your attention. Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PRRSignals" Subject: [PRR] ***Trainphone equipment for the PRR RS-3 in Gscale / Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:23:34 -0400 ***Hi, Gary- "G", another large scale person on the list !!!! ( display or not..) Master modelmaker Stephen Grabowski made O scale trainphone detail parts, really nice but really accurate O scale ( 1/48 ). Since the Aristo model is 1/29, that is a stretch. I have been talking to him, and if there was sufficient interest, he might possibly create parts for us, also. I am very interested in any thoughts for this...Frank Garon, you also ???? May have to home-make, the junction boxes are the hard part, kind of need castings. Ever since I saw the Fogg print of the PRR RS-3 on a Pittsburgh commuter train, I wanted to re-create that exactly !!! Bill Nixon might understand this desire....???!!! Bill***** Please advise if they are others interested, and we can talk to Stephen. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 21:38:08 -0800 From: Ron Dugas Subject: [PRR] SW-? discussion. Hi All, Prr1187@aol.com wrote: > > >From Edwin Alexander's book "The Pennsylvania Railroad", a photo of > the class A6b number 3907 is shown along with AA6 number 3909, > which clearly shows the short stacks. The former was listed > as PRR's first diesel electric, which makes the 3908 the second, etc. > Yanosey's books claim the 3907 was built in 1930. It does look > very different in that it was short in length and only had 4 wheels. > Guess it depends on where you split the hair. According to Staufer's PP2 the 3907 was built in 1930 as a "Gas-Electric" and didn't become a "Diesel" until the installation of a Hamilton 68SA prime mover in 1947. Cross-referencing to the poster's source, Alexander's "The Pennsylvania RR: A Pictorial History: I do see where Alexander's caption states: "No 3907, Class A6b, First diesel engine." However, in the "Motive Power List" on page 244 he includes it in the "Electric" section with the rest of the "Gas-Electrics" with a note stating "Oil-Electric". I believe that I remember reading elsewhere that it was built as an oil-electric but can't remember the reference. Will be looking for it if anyone is interested. So: If you consider gas-electrics and/or oil-electrics as "diesels" then the 3907 would have been the first. If not, then, even though the 3907 was built six or seven years earlier, the 3908 was a "diesel" 10 years before the 3907. I did find a reference in Trains, Dec, 1970, to the difference being that "Diesels" were air injection originally and that "Oil-Electrics" were solid injection. Reference states that after about 1930 the distinction was dropped and they were all called diesels? Yes, I could be nitpicking, but I like these early locos and find studying them to be very interesting. Can anyone shed light on the differences bewtween an "oil-electric" and a "diesel-electric"? As for the 3909 it is interesting that it shows the two short stacks. According to Staufer the 3908 was the only SW? All the rest of the ES6's were SW1s. I was under the belief that all the SW1s had the single tall stack but, evidently, this is not so. Will be looking into this more as it indicates a, possibly, different prime mover. Ah, according to PP2 the 3909 was not an SW of any type. It was an NW2, PRR Class ES10, with only 600hp? using an EMD 567A V-6 prime mover. This is another mystery. As many know the NWs were nominally "900"hp. Delivered 4 years after the 3908 it may have been unique in the NW line in having a Winton prime mover originally? I did find a reference to the Anybody else find these subtle trivias interesting? Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:21:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR RS-3 PRR Modelers, Hello, I purchased the 1/32 scale Aristo Craft PRR RS-3 way back when they first released them. I did a little upgrading, (removing the marker lights, adding chains to the walk ways, etc.) I was hopeing to add the Antenna system to the loco but evidently Cal Scale or any other company never released any sets for this. Did anyone out there add Anteena to thiers and if so how did you go about doing it? Or did I miss a company that did produce these. I see Kadee has finally released a coupler conversion for this also which I plan on purchasing. This is one good looking large scale Loco, even though it is just setting on my shelf for display only. The Antenna system would really add alot. Any help with this? Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:07:12 -0500 (CDT) From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: [PRR] New B-1 loco kit Hi All, By now, most of you should have figured out that the "new B-1" kit was our annaul April Fools prank! It was born of the real (or percieved) need for a kit of this type, a desire not to endanger real projects in the works, and out of many of your reactions to the speculation that Red Caboose MIGHT produce an R50 model! Only about 25 of y'all actually visited the web page providing a disappointing head count for the B-1 :^( Why disappointing? Well if the B-1 "kit" seemed to ring true, its because I have VERY seriously considered this idea. Jerry for example needs several, and to me, it seems perhaps the most straightforward of all the electrics to scratchbuild. As with any PRR electric project, the singularly most difficult piece to find are the spoked drivers, and the GG-1 provided the right ones. The P5a, which was our first nominee for the hoax, has 72" drivers, so the centers would have to be scratchbuilt and cast. Keep yourr eyes on these pages...who knows, perhaps we'll really manage to get a B-1 "kit" together after all !!! Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:30:03 -0500 (CDT) From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr." Subject: [PRR] PRR: I1sa and Soundtraxx We have been through this before, but it never hurts to try again. About a year and a half ago there was a thread about bugging Soundtraxx to produce sound chips for their favorite engines. I, and some others, called Soundtraxx and registered our preference. As far as I know nothing came of this. This afternoon I called Soundtraxx and asked if they had any plans to produce a chip for an I-1. The voice on the other end said they needed the sound. I was ready for him this time. I had run track 1 of the second PRRT&HS CD to the 4:50 mark and put it on hold before I called. I played about 30 seconds of the I-1 starting up from a dead stop and told him sound WAS available and told him about the disk. He immediately said "copyright" and I said I know, but at least contact the PRRT&HS and explore the possibility of using the sound and sharing the profits. I gave him the business office address. He said he would take it up with the owners and I should call back in a couple of weeks. In the meantime I told him I would try to gauge the interest in I-1 sounds. This in no way, no how, implies that anything will happen. If those of you interested in purchasing I-1 sounds would contact me offline I will keep a count and let them know when I call again. Be sure to let me know how MANY systems you would purchase (I want at least 2). Maybe if we can get them to listen to the CD's, they can generate chips for a lot of different engines that are no longer operating. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551-5926 409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 harperd@tamug.tamu.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 14:10:10 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: Re: [PRR] TAN: Craig Bisgeier's Site? Greetings to Jerry and the group, Jerry, it is now located at http://members.microdsi.net/cbisgeier/ Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA drm6@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ At 10:58 AM 4/5/99 -0400, Jerry wrote: >Anyone know where Craig Bisgeier's site has moved to? The old URL's >return errors; they were at http://www.microdsi.net/cbisgeier/ > >Craig isn't on the PRR list, but his site has a lot of operations/design >stuff that I was linked to. I think he is involved with the Layout Design >SIG. Since there are members of the SIG on the list, I was hoping someone >could hook us up. Thanks. > > >------------------------------------------------------------------ >Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PRRSignals" Subject: Re: [PRR] New B-1 loco kit Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:42:50 -0400 ***aaaawwwwww pilgrim.......it still was kind of fun to dream!!!...and we all learned some more information about B1's, I know that I had fun digging thru the stuff for pictures for you, as always...maybe that is why i am not as productive as I wish !!!! get lost in reverie... .hahahah, good one, not too exciting for me, since only HO, not G... now if you teased us large scalers, welll !!!!!! Slowly I turn, step by step,....as the old abbott and costello routine goes !!!!.hahahah, .billl**** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bud Kaiser" Subject: [PRR] Shark 2000 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:02:34 -0400 Forgive me if the original question was answered regarding a photo of PRR Shark 2000. There is a great shot of it in PDY Vol.4, page108. This 1962 photo shows an ABBA combination with all, save one B unit, in single stripe. I used this shot as the inspiration to finally detail the old Model Power Sharks that were buried under the workbench. Hope you all had a Happy Easter or Passover holiday. Bud Kaiser ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PRRSignals" Subject: [PRR] ***The I1s sounds...*** Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 20:00:31 -0400 ***Don, thanks for your efforts in getting us new sound chips, one thing shared by all scales !!! BTW, have you tried Dallee..??? They do PRR also.. If that PRRT&HS CD you referred to was the one produced by Semaphore Records, I can get help on that Copyright ASAP !!! please let me know, and I will get you in contact for this worthy cause ! Bill*** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 20:55:25 -0400 From: Livingston Subject: [PRR] the Rat Motor Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote: >In fact, it is the "pilot" model for a resin B-1!!!!!! Yeah....April Foolz to you too. I was wrackin' my brains trying to recall where I got those British spoked loco drivers WITHOUT counterweights...they have brass rims and hubs, and a brittle black plastic set of spokes, but too closely set (too many spokes) for a B1 Rat. Those GG1 drivers would have quill drive springs and Y-shaped spokes, would they not? I never saw the Pemco GG1 wheels, maybe they're simple spokers. The Brit wheels I bought were available in increments of 3mm or so, all diameters, so I got enough for a true 80" driver'd Atlantic with 50" trailing wheels. I milled out two halves of a bar frame, too. The two halves are still soldered together. All you have to do to those wheels is turn down the flanges to RP 25 contour. I guess as part of the April Fools joke you took delivery of a Brown & Sharp automatic screw machine, eh? -- Robert Livingston ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PRRSignals" Subject: [PRR] ***Radio installations on the PRR*** Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:25:39 -0400 ***Sorry for the delay, Rick..... The first picture that I have with a Radio Decal was taken October 1966, at LINCOLN Tower, Metuchen, NJ. ( Eastern Region). If you have it, the photo ran in Rails Northeast July 1977 issue, along with my LINCOLN track diagram and "Hotbox on #31" Rail Tale. I had just transferred from the PRR Signal Dept to becoming a Block Operator, and was "posting" or learning LINCOLN, with good friend Bill Ellis. My notes show that Bill had told me that these 'new-fangled radios' were brandy new, and were installed all over the System. Although LINCOLN did not have Trainphone, he had mentioned that the Trainphone system was removed from previously equipped towers ( like KARNY and FAIR, etc.) and replaced by Radio at that time also. An amazingly ambitious project all across the System !!! Antennas to be mounted, wiring, installations, etc. In the East, we had the Motran by Motorola equipment, with the tall gray plastic mikes. The radio decals were used to indicate which equipment was equipped. Possibly you and others could confirm this date with Central Region and Western / Lines West folks....???? Bob / Barry / Hal / etc.... Bill******* ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:07:08 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Lettering diagrams From: locoshop@juno.com Hello one and all, I am looking for and trying to find Pennsy lettering diagrams. Are there any out there to be found? I am specifically trying to find ones for the H31s. Although any generic circle keystone scheme will probably do. I would need scale dimensions on the circle keystone and artwork. Reason: looking at the possibility of having these custom made by a custom decal maker in N scale. Would there be others interested in some sheets of these? Probably would do 1 or 2 cars each of the MT 2 bays. Please let me know!! Jeremy Helms locoshop@juno.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:24:04 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] New B-1 loco kit From: James K Bunger You guy don't play fair! I had just priced the Railworks DD1 and need CPR to speak after I was quoted the 1100.00 price! Then I saw a guy at a local show with some New Haven FP-5's (I think they are resin) This seemed like a dream come true. Sniffle, sniffle. Hey, I wonder what the NY, NH & H web site is............ Naw, I guess I have to stick with the PRR. over and out James On Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:07:12 -0500 (CDT) "Bruce F. Smith" writes: >Hi All, > >By now, most of you should have figured out that the "new B-1" kit was >our >annaul April Fools prank! It was born of the real (or percieved) need >for >a kit of this type, a desire not to endanger real projects in the >works, >and out of many of your reactions to the speculation that Red Caboose >MIGHT produce an R50 model! > >Only about 25 of y'all actually visited the web page providing a >disappointing head count for the B-1 :^( > >Why disappointing? Well if the B-1 "kit" seemed to ring true, its >because >I have VERY seriously considered this idea. Jerry for example needs >several, and to me, it seems perhaps the most straightforward of all >the >electrics to scratchbuild. As with any PRR electric project, the >singularly most difficult piece to find are the spoked drivers, and >the >GG-1 provided the right ones. The P5a, which was our first nominee >for >the hoax, has 72" drivers, so the centers would have to be >scratchbuilt >and cast. Keep yourr eyes on these pages...who knows, perhaps we'll >really manage to get a B-1 "kit" together after all !!! > >Happy Rails >Bruce > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new >eCommerce >site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Miracle Castings Inc." Subject: [PRR] Erie-built photos and update: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 00:16:57 -0400 Hi All! I just wanted to give those anxious customers of Jerry's an update on the status of the Erie-built. The kits are in production now, and we should be shipping some to Jerry by next week. You can see some photos of the shell on our web site at http://mc.cyklone.com/erie.htm The photos are not the best, but we will be posting better ones soon. Thanks to all who have ordered the kits, for your patience and your faith in us for ordering in advance. We feel the Erie will meet your expectations, and look forward to your comments. Regards, Pat Lawless Mike White Scott Heiden Miracle Castings Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] PRR in Wilmington, DE Date: Mon, 5 Apr 99 21:20:01 -0800 From: David Can anyone help me with the following information: 1) How many tracks made upthe Main Line through Wilmington? 2) What color ballest did the PRR traditionally use? 3) What large industries did the PRR serve in the Wilmington area? 4) Did the PRR have an interchange with the Reading Lines, the B&O or any other short lines in the Wilmington Area? 5) Are or were there any narrow gauge railroads in the area? _ _ / \ / \ ___\_/___---------------___\_/___ _______________________ /________/0 0\________\ H R E A|D I N|G RR H /======P E N N S Y L V A N I A======\ H | | H /____________H___________H____________\ H_______|_____|_______H #U o-o==(=)=(=)=(=) (=)=(=)=(=)==o-o U## o-o o-o ## ========================================================================= David Lind VAQ-133 two_edge@hotmail.com Oak Harbor, WA FPO AP 96601 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 09:13:09 -0400 From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: [PRR] Routing to Altoona My thanks to all who responded to my request. Your local knowledge is appreciated. Now looking forward to the trip even more. Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] ***Verifying wired trackage...Lines West folks can Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:51:36 -0400 (EDT) > Another verification source our group utilizes is the "Plate Order Diagram > Books", which define pictorially each trolley section, and show entire > areas, so as to reveal which tracks were wired and thus affected. Dang! Rather stupid of me to forget that one, as I have 2 of the books! The ETT can be a rather cryptic resource. The Plate Order book is more easily understood, IMO. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 10:54:25 -0400 From: "John F. Ryan, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR in Wilmington, DE One I remember was Phoenix Steel. It was located where Philadelphia Pike crossed under the Pennsy just north of Claymont. There was actually a station there at one time called Naamen (sp?). When I lived there in the early 70's, I think only one train a day stopped there. There were four tracks from north of Wilmington to Philadelphia, but only two tracks through downtown Wilmington. There was a frieght cutoff, though, called the Shellpot cutoff that had two tracks. I believe there was a flying junction where the Shellpot cutoff rejoined the main line, perhaps between Edgemoor and Claymont. David wrote: > > Can anyone help me with the following information: > > 1) How many tracks made upthe Main Line through Wilmington? > > 2) What color ballest did the PRR traditionally use? > > 3) What large industries did the PRR serve in the Wilmington area? > > 4) Did the PRR have an interchange with the Reading Lines, the B&O or any > other short lines in the Wilmington Area? > > 5) Are or were there any narrow gauge railroads in the area? > > _ _ > / \ / \ > ___\_/___---------------___\_/___ _______________________ > /________/0 0\________\ H R E A|D I N|G RR H > /======P E N N S Y L V A N I A======\ H | | H > /____________H___________H____________\ H_______|_____|_______H > #U o-o==(=)=(=)=(=) (=)=(=)=(=)==o-o U## o-o o-o ## > ========================================================================= > > David Lind VAQ-133 two_edge@hotmail.com > Oak Harbor, WA FPO AP 96601 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce > site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:04:37 -0500 (CDT) From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR in Wilmington, DE David, On Mon, 5 Apr 1999, David wrote: > Can anyone help me with the following information: > 1) How many tracks made upthe Main Line through Wilmington? The "mainline"? I will assume you mean the passenger main and not the freight bypass. Mostly 2 track, although the station has 3 tracks. BTW an EXCELLENT article on the Wilmington Staion in Mainline Modeler a few months ago! > 2) What color ballest did the PRR traditionally use? > Generally a light grey. If you are interested in modeling, I like Arizona Rock and Mineral's #105-2 or 105-3 PRR Ballast. Remember that ballast color changed a lot with weather use, cleaning and location, so getting the "right" color isn't nearly as important as it might seem. Rather, realistic weathering will create the impression that the ballast is "right" > 3) What large industries did the PRR serve in the Wilmington area? > First, lets start with PRR's own facilities. Edgemoor Yards was a reasonable freight yard on the North side of town, and the PRR had a large shop to service electric locos (Now the Amtrak shops). There were a great many other industries in Wilmington served by the PRR, depending on the era, including ship building and heavy manufacturing. The Shellpot Branch, which was the freight bypass makes a fascinating study in itself, with 2 swing bridge across the Christina river, and both the Delmarva and New Castle Secondary, as well as two sererate crossings of Reading track. Industries listed on teh shellpot branch track charts from 1962 include Del Floor products, E. Mal Iron Co., Morm??at (spelling?) Coal and Fuel Co., Greybar Electric Co., and Fibre Processing Co. The area around the Christina river was apparently interlaced with the tracks of the PRR, B&O and Reading, and I for one would love to see an overal map of that area! Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Need Two Mileposts Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:56:35 -0400 (EDT) > >Second, I need a milepost reference for the Frederick Branch. I need to > >know where it passes from York County into Adams County. Outside of York, > >the line runs through Graybill, Bair, Spring Grove, Hanover, Sell, > >Littlestown, and Kingsdale before meeting the Maryland State Line. > >Somewhere along there is the Adams County line. > sorry, state lines ( at 41.1 ) are ususally shown in ETT's, county lines > = need map, local knowledge.....bill** Jerry, I suspect you'll need to find someone who has a track chart of that line. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Need to ID a Harrisburg Industry Date: Tue, 6 Apr 99 13:48:46 -0400 From: Jerry Dan Cupper may be the one to answer this, but here goes to all... I am trying to ID the company and type of industry that occupied an area south of MaClay Street, north of the Herr Street underpass, east of the Harrisburg Locomotive Terminal, and west of the creek that flows down the Cameron Street corridor...I believe it is called Spring Creek. This would be in the large "block" south of the state Farm Show building. If one were to turn down the access road into the loco facility, there were five oil storage tanks between the road and the tracks. These tanks were served by a turnout at the bottom of the access road. From this same turnout location, facing in the opposite direction, was a turnout serving the aforementioned industry. The next "block" down, below Herr Street, is the headquarters of Harrisburg Steel Company (later HARSCO). Behind it was a steel mill. Is the industry in question another part of the Harrisburg Steel Company? In looking at the 1993 satellite photos (TerraServer), the identified building between Herr and State streets looks like a blast-type furnace. The building in question has flat or near flat roof tops, perhaps like an electric furnace or just a manufacturing building. Another problem, and the reason for my question: It looks like I will have room on my layout for the railroad-facing facade of this structure. But I'm not certain that the structure in the 1993 satellite photo is the one that was there in 1954. Anyone know? Then again, I could fudge and move the Harrisburg Steel Company further up the main line, including it, which may be more interesting. Hmmm. BTW: My online layout description is now out of date (again). My lower level will be the Harrisburg locomotive facilities. It'll have a 23' straight run with about a 6' extension, plus another 7' or so of hidden fiddle area representing Harrisburg yards. I am still in desperate need of photos and the previously requested issue of RAILWAY AGE. Anyone know who/what may be the best source for these in the area: Harrisburg Chapter NRHS, Pennsylvania State Library, Dauphin County Library, Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania, etc.? ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR in Wilmington, DE Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 12:57:36 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell On 6 Apr, "John F. Ryan, Jr." wrote: > [ ... ] I > believe there was a flying junction where the Shellpot cutoff rejoined > the main line, perhaps between Edgemoor and Claymont. Is that the flyover alongside I-95 between Philly and Wilmington? I drove past there a few years back and wondered about it... Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone Article research Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:12:30 -0400 (EDT) RICHARD ADER scrivit: > > Jerry, Mark Bej, and group, > Is there anyone out there with information to > share about the Bel-Del? (Stretch of the Pennsy form Fair tower off the > NEC in Trenton, > up the Delaware river to G tower in Belvidere) > This in addition to Warren Lee's Book. My > specific interest lies with G tower and the closing there of. > According to our late friend Jim Lynch, G closed in January of 1972. > Can anyone tell me who the last operators of G were/are. > Thanks > Rich Ader Rich, I was going to suggest that you speak directly with Bill Strassner, but I see that that's already been taken care of. I'm afraid I can't be of any help beyond posting a map of "G" interlocking, which should be up soon. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Routing to Altoona Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:26:12 -0400 (EDT) Tom Mahon scrivit: > > Good afternoon PRR listers, > I have a question for you south-central PA denizens: I am going to be > going to Gettsburg in a week or so for some vacation. Had wanted to get > to Altoona while in the "area." Then I was reminded of the typical PA > geography and Geology (LaSalle '68) where the valleys run SW to NE. I'd > appreciate routing and drive time info. My map shows US30 as a > possibility to go "cross-country" before heading North. In my mind there > is "direct" mileage and direct "time" when the mileage may be shorter, > but the time route is less of a hassle. Your advise is appreciated. To > save Jerry disk space/bandwidth/heart attack off list might be a good > idea, unless there is some other SPF out there with the same question. As you suspect, there is no "good" way across the mountains going your way directly. The "lousy" ways take you through the county seat of Perry County, etc. (Guys who have remained locals: is this STILL the only traffic light in Perry county, the blinking yellow/red? Or do they have a real traffic light now?) I believe Bill Strassner has already commented on a PRR-style routing. There are several variations, viz.: 1. Over (E) to the former NC, thence north [all directions are geographical, not RR] to Enola, thence NW/W to Altoona. 2. W to Chambersburg, thence NE to Enola. Long. Thence as above. 3. N along RDG branch to Carlisle Jct., E to Mechanicsburg and Enola, thence as before. Interesting short-line thru cut in South Mountain, but this portion is nonPRR. 4. W to Chambersburg, S to Marion, then follow CVRR / PRR South Penn Branch thru cut in Blue [North] Mountain, thence over mountain following Vagel Keller's (or Vagel Miller, if you will :-) fictional model RR routing, to East Broad Top (or, for the even more archaeologically adventurous, H&BT) right of way, thence N to the Juniata R., thence W/NW to Altoona. 5. West along the former Indian trail now known as US 30, a route surveyed by one Schlatter and one J. E. Thomson :-) but not chosen for the PRR main, to Bedford, thence north thru various small towns and various cuts thru various mountains to Altoona. I can't recall the PRR name of this branch, but it's the one that ran to Cumberland with some help from the Western Maryland. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:18:53 -0500 (CDT) From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr." Subject: [PRR] PRR: PRRT&HS and Soundtraxx After I sent the message about I-1 sounds, Jerry suggested I contact Chuck Blardone, editor of the Keystone, and see if he would assist in getting the PRRT&HS to agree to Soundtraxx using the CD recordings. Below is Chuck's reply. I will relay this to Soundtraxx when I call back. I hope the Directors think the way he does. - - - - - Hi, Don: Glad you liked the first-person experiences in "The Keystone". Yes, I wish there were more of them; oral history is time-consuming, and none of us are getting any younger. I don't think the PRRT&HS would object to using its I1s recording to produce sound chips. This ain't about a lot of money; it's about fun, and no one's gonna' get rich on a recording, unless it's The Backstreet Boys. To make it official, there should be a written request forwarded to the Altoona business address. I'm not a Director, and have no official "vote", but I can't imagine there'd be any objection. Chuck Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551-5926 409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 harperd@tamug.tamu.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:24:01 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR in Wilmington, DE >On 6 Apr, "John F. Ryan, Jr." wrote: > >> [ ... ] I >> believe there was a flying junction where the Shellpot cutoff rejoined >> the main line, perhaps between Edgemoor and Claymont. > >Is that the flyover alongside I-95 between Philly and >Wilmington? I drove past there a few years back and >wondered about it... This is Bell interlocking along I495 and the Delaware River, North of Edgemoor and south of Claymont (home to CitiSteel) and the Naaman's Road Septa stop. A diagram of the interlocking can be found at on Ken Reinert's pages at: http://members.aol.com/amtrakmaps/F-7.html Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:14:47 -0500 (CDT) From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr." Subject: [PRR] PRR: Railfan killed in Pittsburgh There is a story circulating on the Railspot listserver down here in the southwest about a railfan killed on the W&LE near Bethel Park on Easter Sunday. Latest story is that he was "passed out" on the tracks. His camera was still in its bag. Can you Pittsburghers tell me more about this? Someone was wondering if he was in the wrong part of town and was mugged. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551-5926 409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 harperd@tamug.tamu.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Eichhorn@aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:13:06 EDT Subject: [PRR] Painting LIRR Steam Hi Guys, I have a question concerning the painting of the LIRR, G5s steam locomotives. When delivered, would these engines have had DGLE applied to their boilers and other appropriate areas or would they have been just a "basic" black? Also, once the Pennsy assumed ownership of the LIRR, did any or all LIRR steam acquire a "Pennsy DGLE" paint job when a repaint was necessary? Lastly, some LIRR engines were adorned with a black smokebox door. Would a semi-gloss black be appropriate in this application? Thanks, George ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:14:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PFM K4s Smoke Box Front PRR Modelers, I was just given a PFM PRR K4s that someone needs modified. This is the as built-pre-war version and the fellow wants me to up-date it with the modern front end "beauty treatment". I have two choices to decide on how I want to do it. One is simple and the other involves work. Cal-Scale makes a set of parts to do this. But this involes the work part of it. I would much rather do it the (EASY) second way by replacing the whole boiler front with that of a PFM K4 Modern style Boiler Front. My question is does anyone out there on this list have an extra PFM K4 modern boiler front lying around from a past project? I know some modelers did the exact opposite what I need to do. They back dated their K4s. So hopefully someone out there has one that I can purchase. Let me know if you can be of any help. Thanks in advance! Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR in Wilmington, DE Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 17:14:11 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell On 6 Apr, "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." wrote: >On 6 Apr, "Dennis Rockwell" wrote: > >Is that the flyover alongside I-95 between Philly and > >Wilmington? I drove past there a few years back and > >wondered about it... > > This is Bell interlocking along I495 and the Delaware River, North of > Edgemoor and south of Claymont (home to CitiSteel) and the Naaman's Road > Septa stop. A diagram of the interlocking can be found at on Ken Reinert's > pages at: > http://members.aol.com/amtrakmaps/F-7.html Yep, that looks right. Odd that PRR would build what looks like a bottleneck coming off Shellpot (both Shellpot tracks merging, then joining the No.1 track, which then splits into 1F and 2F to go under the flyover. Thanks! Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963@aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:15:55 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Meeting Does anyone have the date for the meeting in Altoona? Thanks Harold ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 20:30:20 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR in Wilmington, DE From: Roy K Breon OK. Please tell a neophyte what a "flying junction" is. Roy Breon On Tue, 06 Apr 1999 10:54:25 -0400 "John F. Ryan, Jr." writes: >snipped>> >There were four tracks from north of Wilmington to Philadelphia, but >only two tracks through downtown Wilmington. There was a frieght >cutoff, though, called the Shellpot cutoff that had two tracks. I >believe there was a flying junction where the Shellpot cutoff >rejoined >the main line, perhaps between Edgemoor and Claymont. > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PRRSignals" Subject: [PRR] PRR "BELL" Interlocking... Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:47:54 -0400 ***Ohhh, Dennis ! The PRR would *almost never* build it that way, remember, you are looking at "rationalized" plants now. Between Conrail and Amtrak, the "magic word" is minimal power switch movements, whereas the PRR stressed maximum flexibility and operations efficiency ! Built those flyovers all over the system ! BELL in PRR ( and into PC ) days had the dual leads with crossovers and both continued under the #1 track Psgr Flyover. BELL is sort of the Chesapeake Division's operational mirror-reverse of LANE near Newark, the entrance to Waverly Yard, New York Division, with #1 track on a flyover also. Lane got butchered, errr, rationalized in the same manner, down to only one freight move at a time. Both of these plants under PRR could handle inbound and outbound freight movements simultaneously, as it should be ! Without interfering with passenger traffic at all. I can send a sketch if you wish. Bill***** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 20:43:00 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Need to ID a Harrisburg Industry Jerry wrote: > > > I am trying to ID the company and type of industry that occupied an area south of MaClay Street, north of the Herr Street underpass, east of the Harrisburg Locomotive Terminal, and west of the creek that flows down the Cameron Street corridor. In looking at the 1993 satellite photos (TerraServer), the identified building between Herr and State streets looks like a blast-type furnace. > The building in question has flat or near flat roof tops, perhaps like an electric furnace or just a manufacturing building. > I am still in desperate need of photos and the previously requested issue of RAILWAY AGE. Anyone know who/what may be the best source for these in the area: Harrisburg Chapter NRHS, Pennsylvania State Library, Dauphin County Library, Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania, etc.? > ------------------------------------------------------------------ Greetings to Jerry and the list: The area you're describing immediately opposite the Harrisburg diesel terminal was a slag dump for Harrisburg Steel Corp. When I first moved to Harrisburg in 1974 there was still a narrow-gauge in-plant railroad that served that dump. It actually had a grade crossing on Herr Street, just east of the PRR "subway" -- (Herr Street underpass, which is how the Subway bar & restaurant that's still there got its name) PRR-ese for various kinds of underpasses of its tracks. I distinctly remember on a visit to the engine terminal seeing the narrow-gauge diesel with several cars dumping hot metal byproducts. My suspicion is that most of that area was Harrisburg Steel, but how long that was the case, I don't know. I think you're safe with that in 1954, though -- read on: Old maps do show trackage coming off the freight line there into the "Pipe Bending" company, and there may still be a dead-end siding there that crews once used for shuffling cars, and referred to as the "pipe bending switch" and "pipe bending spur" -- of course, this was long after any company of that name had disappeared. This was the Harrisburg Pipe and Pipe Bending Company, a name that appears in the 1923 CT 1000 but not in the 1945 CT 1000. The name Harrisburg Steel Corp., on the other hand, appears in the 1945 CT 1000 but not the 1923 CT 1000. SO Harrisburg Steel may have taken over or been formed in a merger with or including the pipe bending co. You can still see where the siding left PRR property by standing in the parking lot of the office building that's located just north of the abandoned Greyhound station on North Sixth Street. Pull back there, park, and walk a few feet to the tracks -- you're right across from the pullot tracks there and right across the yard from the former site of this industyr. Look at the steam-plant lines and expansion loops, and I think you'll find the one (maybe more, but I'm sure of one) place where the pipe was shaped not like a loop but rather like an inverted letter U to allow room for a track and rolling stock to pass through. Dan Cupper dan@cwix.com Psalm 22 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "DF Cramer" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Railfan killed in Pittsburgh Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 20:38:40 -0400 Yes there was a railfan killed (possible suicide). He had alcohol problems and was found on the tracks with his camera in a plastic bag and some photos and a note. No word as to what was on the note. He was laying on the tracks just around a bend and the engineer had no chance of stopping. He lived above ABCharles & Son Hobbies in Dormont and was an avid trainwatcher. DFCramer--Teacher-Trombonist-Historian-Conductor dfc1@alltel.net www.geocities.com/Vienna/6652 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR in Wilmington, DE Date: Tue, 6 Apr 99 16:30:46 -0800 From: David > Rather, >realistic weathering will create the impression that the ballast is >"right" How do you weather ballast? David _ _ / \ / \ ___\_/___---------------___\_/___ _______________________ /________/0 0\________\ H R E A|D I N|G RR H /======P E N N S Y L V A N I A======\ H | | H /____________H___________H____________\ H_______|_____|_______H #U o-o==(=)=(=)=(=) (=)=(=)=(=)==o-o U## o-o o-o ## ========================================================================= David Lind VAQ-133 two_edge@hotmail.com Oak Harbor, WA FPO AP 96601 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 22:46:55 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] SW-? discussion. Ron, A general distinction between oil and diesel-fueled engines is that oil engines had relatively low compression ratios and used spark ignition, while true diesels have higher compression (ratio around 16:1), which provides adequate temperature rise on compresion to ignite the fuel oil, which is injected (sprayed) into the cylinder after compression of the combustion air. They still required injection of solid fuel (meaning liquid, as opposed to gas vapor) because of the low volatility of fuel oil as compared to gasoline. Steve Bartlett Ron Dugas wrote: > .................... I did find a reference in Trains, Dec, 1970, to the difference being > that "Diesels" were air injection originally and that "Oil-Electrics" > were solid injection. Reference states that after about 1930 the > distinction was dropped and they were all called diesels? > > Yes, I could be nitpicking, but I like these early locos and find > studying them to be very interesting. Can anyone shed light on the > differences bewtween an "oil-electric" and a "diesel-electric"? ...............> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Stephen Foster" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR in Wilmington, DE Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:40:39 -0500 a mixture of cheap rubbing alcohol and india ink brushed or sprayed on gives the dirty aged look . also works nice on most projects, however do not use OVER dullcoat as it will fog it up .... unless that is an effect you want. keep your rails shiny Stephen Visit our Website http://members.tripod.com/~Engine99/apn.htm -----Original Message----- From: David To: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu Cc: PRR Talk Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 8:00 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR in Wilmington, DE >> Rather, >>realistic weathering will create the impression that the ballast is >>"right" > >How do you weather ballast? > >David > > > _ _ > / \ / \ > ___\_/___---------------___\_/___ _______________________ > /________/0 0\________\ H R E A|D I N|G RR H > /======P E N N S Y L V A N I A======\ H | | H > /____________H___________H____________\ H_______|_____|_______H >#U o-o==(=)=(=)=(=) (=)=(=)=(=)==o-o U## o-o o-o ## >========================================================================= > >David Lind VAQ-133 two_edge@hotmail.com >Oak Harbor, WA FPO AP 96601 > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce >site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PRRSignals" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR in Wilmington, DE Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 23:00:29 -0400 ***Hi, Roy- A Flying Junction is typically where one or more tracks "flies over" and / or "ducks under" the other tracks so there is no interference with other train movements. As opposed to having a freight crossover at a flat interlocking, where the freight is moving slowly, and blocking the other ( passenger ) tracks as he crawls into / out of the yard. If you looked at Ken's great maps, this is just north of BELL Tower...between Milepost 21 and 22, where the two frt mains go under #1 passenger main track, which is elevated. Bill**** -----Original Message----- From: Roy K Breon To: prr-talk@dsop.com Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR in Wilmington, DE >OK. Please tell a neophyte what a "flying junction" is. > >Roy Breon > >On Tue, 06 Apr 1999 10:54:25 -0400 "John F. Ryan, Jr." > writes: >>snipped>> > >>There were four tracks from north of Wilmington to Philadelphia, but >>only two tracks through downtown Wilmington. There was a frieght >>cutoff, though, called the Shellpot cutoff that had two tracks. I >>believe there was a flying junction where the Shellpot cutoff >>rejoined >>the main line, perhaps between Edgemoor and Claymont. >> > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce >site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Meeting Date: Wed, 7 Apr 99 06:03:32 -0400 From: Jerry On 4/6/99 7:15 PM, Hal6963@aol.com (Hal6963@aol.com) wrote: >Does anyone have the date for the meeting in Altoona? Details are available at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/timetable.html ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@dsop.com "Keystone Crossings" http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space available at http://www.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Meeting Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:04:54 -0400 Harold, The 1999 PRRT&HS convention in Altoona is August 27-29. Hope to see you there. Jerry Breon -----Original Message----- From: Hal6963@aol.com To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 8:33 PM Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Meeting >Does anyone have the date for the meeting in Altoona? > >Thanks > >Harold > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce >site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:47:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Railfan killed in Pittsburgh Hello, One more thing about this "railfan" that was killed in Pittsburgh. I got this straight from Mr Charles yesterday. While "rialfannig" down by Station Square several years back he fell asleep on the top of a boxar. The next morning he woke up in Maryland. I guess his head was all cut up during the trip. Oh yeah, Alcohol was involved in that one too. Thats the kind of people that give real railfans a bad name. Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 12:55:27 -0400 From: vck@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Railfan killed in Pittsburgh --On Tuesday, April 06, 1999, 2:14 PM -0500 "Donald E. Harper, Jr." wrote: > ... story circulating on the Railspot listserver down here in the > southwest about a railfan killed on the W&LE near Bethel Park on Easter Sunday. > Latest story is that he was "passed out" on the tracks. His camera was still in > its bag. Can you Pittsburghers tell me more about this? Someone was wondering > if he was in the wrong part of town and was mugged. > Haven't seen anything in the paper or on the news ... but, I haven't been watching much other than FOX and CNN lately, if you catch my drift. Doesn't seem plausible that he'd been mugged ... and there ain't no such thing as the "wrong part of town" in Pgh. A) you can get mugged in front of your house in a moderately affluent neighborhood in this town the way the police are demoralized here and, B) muggers take bags. In both cases, I have a mugged wife to substantiate this hypothesis. Vagel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:58:32 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] SW-? discussion. In a message dated 4/6/99 11:06:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sbartlet@capecod.net writes: << Ron, A general distinction between oil and diesel-fueled engines is that oil engines had relatively low compression ratios and used spark ignition, while true diesels have higher compression (ratio around 16:1), which provides adequate temperature rise on compresion to ignite the fuel oil, which is injected (sprayed) into the cylinder after compression of the combustion air. They still required injection of solid fuel (meaning liquid, as opposed to gas vapor) because of the low volatility of fuel oil as compared to gasoline. Steve Bartlett Ron Dugas wrote: > .................... I did find a reference in Trains, Dec, 1970, to the difference being > that "Diesels" were air injection originally and that "Oil-Electrics" > were solid injection. Reference states that after about 1930 the > distinction was dropped and they were all called diesels? > > Yes, I could be nitpicking, but I like these early locos and find > studying them to be very interesting. Can anyone shed light on the > differences bewtween an "oil-electric" and a "diesel-electric"? ...............> >> Gize, Not a good answer to this question -- but over on the New York Central, they seemed to persist in calling all the internal combustion power "oil engines". Thus, I was told the shop at Collinwood was referred to as "the oil engine house" (as opposed to the roundhouse and steam shop). I can easily buy into "diesels" only being those power plants ignited by compression, though. I get the feeling that when Rudolph Diesel was inventing the Diesel engine, there were plenty of other alternatives being looked at, with various ignition systems and probably some truly goofy fuels/fuel mixes. I'm assuming the Diesel rose to prominence in marine use because Diesel fuel was a waste product, therefore really cheap. In any case, the gasoline internal combustion engine was around before 1900, and about 35 more years passed before the diesel started to look like a locomotive prime mover to most American railroads. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Stephen Foster" Subject: Re: [PRR] GASOLINE Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:04:54 -0500 just look at the names this jerk sent out this crap! this gets KEVIN TULLY put in the filter file! -----Original> : Kevin Tully Date: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] GASOLINE >and what does this have to do with PRR??????????????? >-----Original Message----- >From: Kevin Tully >To: americansteel@knoxfirst.com >Cc: bstrauch@alaska.net ; bjorgan@alaskalife.net >; cjchilds@Alaska.NET ; >fred1945@bellatlantic.net ; lvrr@enter.net >; ThinSlab@aol.com ; locoshop@juno.com >; wbrr@bigfoot.com ; >liberty@infonline.net ; Judy_Morris@admin.state.ak.us >; ModelTrains@iname.com >; dlshs@hotmail.com ; >cswrrceo@mtaonline.net ; prr-talk@dsop.com >; PRR2000@dsop.com ; >rossgunn@mtaonline.net ; usa4624@vvm.com >; vangoors@alaskabar.org ; >petrishen@ctos.com ; Tim_Moriarty@tax.org >; Femalemedk@aol.com >Date: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 1:43 PM >Subject: [PRR] GASOLINE > > >>Folks, >>Dont know if this would work, but I'm willing to give it a try. >>Anything >>for a little civil disobedience. >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >> >>It's time we did something about the price of gasoline in America! We >>are all sick and tired of high prices when there are literally >>millions of gallons in storage. >> >>Know what I found out? If there was just ONE day when no one >>purchased any gasoline, prices would drop drastically. The so-called >>oil cartel has decided to slow production by some 2 million barrels >>per day to drive up the price. I have decided to see how many >>Americans we can get to NOT BUY ANY GASOLINE on one particular day! >> >>Let's have a GAS OUT! Do not buy any gasoline on APRIL 30, 1999!!!!! >> >>Buy on Thursday before, or Saturday after. Do not buy any gasoline on >>FRIDAY, APRIL 30, 1999. >> >>Wanna help? Send this message to everyone you know. Ask them to do >>the same. All we need is a few million to participate in order to >>make a difference. >>We CAN make a difference. >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________________________ >>Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com >> >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce >>site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >>"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kevin Tully" Subject: [PRR] GASOLINE Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 10:52:18 PDT Folks, Dont know if this would work, but I'm willing to give it a try. Anything for a little civil disobedience. _________________________________________________________________ It's time we did something about the price of gasoline in America! We are all sick and tired of high prices when there are literally millions of gallons in storage. Know what I found out? If there was just ONE day when no one purchased any gasoline, prices would drop drastically. The so-called oil cartel has decided to slow production by some 2 million barrels per day to drive up the price. I have decided to see how many Americans we can get to NOT BUY ANY GASOLINE on one particular day! Let's have a GAS OUT! Do not buy any gasoline on APRIL 30, 1999!!!!! Buy on Thursday before, or Saturday after. Do not buy any gasoline on FRIDAY, APRIL 30, 1999. Wanna help? Send this message to everyone you know. Ask them to do the same. All we need is a few million to participate in order to make a difference. We CAN make a difference. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Gasoline vs RR transportation From: Fred G Rea Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 17:31:10 EDT I know others agree that Kevin Tulley is so far off topic I can't believe it!. We need software to trap topic key words to allow stuff in the way some traps porn to keep it out. To get my reply "on topic" I have this to say. As long as we have artificiality depressed oil prices we will continue our dependence on automobiles and air for passenger travel and trucks for freight. Only when we price oil to put our consumption near our production will we loose our vulnerability to OPEC. I remember the 1970's and the oil scare! I also remember the 40's and 50's when we had an integrated transport system that included railroads for both freight and passenger traffic. If we claim an interest in the RR industry we must lobby to level the playing field between trains and other modes. Oil prices can do that. I also remember the 39 cent/gal gas AND the INFLATION since then. Gasoline prices are not high. Fred Rea ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TVPedro@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:07:35 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR The Subject Is PRR Trains Doesn't t1duplex@hotmail.com (Kevin Tully) know that he is supposed to stay on the subject. PRR Talk isn't a channel for social change. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ljgurke@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 21:01:22 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR B-62 Baggage Cars Just picked up a Bethlehem Car Works PRR B-62 Baggage car (apparently these were formerly Reading BAu cars sold (?) to the Pennsy). Can anyone give me any background on these cars, such as the date they first appeared on the PRR? The decal set included with the kit features a large P.R.R. and the Red Keystone Decal. Were any of these painted in the earlier scheme, and as a corollary, when was the earliest application of the Keystone decal to PRR passenger equipment? Thanks, Mike Hagan Andover, MA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:30:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Railfan killed in Pittsburgh Don, According to the word going around here, is the guy was known to have had a drinking problem. Several years ago he was down at the old P&LE Station in Pittsburgh doing his kind of "railfanning" which included taking photos and drinking. He climbed atop a boxcar roof, passed out and woke up the next morning in Maryand. How he did not roll off is unknown but he was all cut up from rolling around. What happened on the W&LE tracks was bound to happen. I got this story from the Owner of AB Charles and Son Hobby shop in Dormont. The guy that was killed lived in the upstairs appartment which Mr. Charles rented out to him. Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 00:39:48 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: Railfan killed by train in Pittsburgh 4/4/99 Hey Yuze Gize, Mark Biggart and I had been writing each other for about six years or so. Every since my article on the P&WV box cars were published in Mainline we had shared our interest in the P&WV and he was always willing to share whatever he had with me. I am sorry to hear of his passing. Since my family and I moved to Salem, OR, Mark and I communicated less and less, I now wished I had picked up the phone and made that call instead of waiting from him to call. I never had the opportunity to meet Mark, but my vision of him will always remain, a good one. Along with his passing we will all be a bit less, he had been in contact with J.J. Young, Jr., had received a small collection of B&W's from him. Mark was good enough to share some of them with me, Thanks MARK. Mark Biggard... Gods Speed! and KEEP 'um POLISHED! I'll miss you! Greg Martin From: racer@net.bluemoon.net (Kodi Marlin) >Sad news -- >Mark Biggart, 36 years old and a railfan was struck and killed by a >Wheeling and Lake Erie train near Bethel Park, PA on Easter Sunday >afternoon. > >The news is sketchy, but the local radio and TV station reports say >he was on the tracks and could not get out of the way in time. >Mark shared many photos and stories about trains in the area with >many other railfans, and was always searching for more information on >things like the PRR Panhandle, P&WV and other local roads. >Bill > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Railfan killed in Pittsburgh Date: Thu, 8 Apr 99 06:21:10 -0400 From: Jerry On 4/7/99 11:30 PM, doloris mittner (mittner@webtv.net) wrote: > According to the word going around here, is the guy was known to >have had a drinking problem. Several years ago he was down at the old >P&LE Station in Pittsburgh doing his kind of "railfanning" which >included taking photos and drinking. He climbed atop a boxcar roof, >passed out and woke up the next morning in Maryand. How he did not roll >off is unknown but he was all cut up from rolling around. What happened >on the W&LE tracks was bound to happen. I got this story from the Owner >of AB Charles and Son Hobby shop in Dormont. The guy that was killed >lived in the upstairs appartment which Mr. Charles rented out to him. First off, this is not a PRR issue and this thread should join the same thread in progress on the RAILROAD list. Please discontinue the thread here. Thank you. Second, there was a detailed explanation on the RAILROAD list about the victim's trip on top of a boxcar from Pittsburgh to Maryland. They never determined that he had been drinking, nor that he had climbed on top of the box car. He had been seen prior to the incident on a bridge over the RoW. This is also where the victim's memory of the incident purportedly ends. It is thought that he was robbed and thrown onto a moving train. The story continues that train crews at a checkpoint saw blood draining down the side of a car and found him on top, with his skull shattered and part of his brain missing. He went through substantial rehab, but of course was never the same. Don't know if any or all of this is true, but it is an account from someone who claimed to know him personally. If your interest continues, please follow the story on the RAILROAD list. Thank you. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@dsop.com "Keystone Crossings" http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space available at http://www.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 05:31:23 EDT Subject: [PRR] LWFF Xenia Saturday April 10 I've pulled out all my ugly old slides of the PRR in Dayton and Xenia, and am headed up to Ohio this weekend for the PRR Lines West Fans Fest. My presentation will be "Faded Glory -- The Panhandle Around Dayton". I'm also bringing along some astounding old Lines West maps, timetables, and other references, for those of you that want to puzzle over Panhandle history with me. See you Friday night at Otis's. Or see you all at Xenia's armory (North Detroit Street) Saturday morning. Rick Tipton In a message dated 3/13/99 7:54:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, LINESWEST@aol.com writes: > ATTENTION SERIOUS PENNSY FANS! > The Pennsylvania Railroad > LINES WEST > FANS' FEST > Has MOVED!!! To Xenia's > Ohio National Guard Armory > 39 Weaver St. at North Detroit St. (US 68) > (on the north side of Shawnee Park, 4 blocks north of the > Greene County Courthouse and Main Street (US 35 Business loop) > April 10, 1999 10 am-4pm > General Admission $10 > Advance "SPF" registration $30* > > Payment for 'Advance SPF registration' must be received by April 1, 1999. > Package premiums nuclide Pennsylvania Lines hat and patch, a copy of "The > Pennsylvania Railroad 1846-1996: its place in history" a collection of > essays > and research guide edited by Dan Cupper, and a reception at 5 p. m in "Xenia > Station,' a full scale replica of the Pennsylvania Railroad's XG "Xenia" > tower > opened in 1998 > . > Railfans, model railroaders and rail history buffs are invited to celebrate > the other Pennsylvania Railroad, its 4,500 miles of tracks west of > Pittsburgh > & Erie. Xenia was one of Ohio's first rail centers, the hub of the Little > Miami RR, the oldest rail line to be part of the Pennsylvania Lines. > > During the PRR Lines West Fans Fest you have a chance to: > > See the largest display yet of finely-detailed PRR rolling stock and > locomotive models by the Cincinnati Division Pennsylvania RR Modelers' > craftsmen > Discover the PRR in Michigan's north woods copper country with the Grand > Rapids & Indiana Railroad Historical Society > Find how the Greene Co. Historical Society's accurately modeled Xenia in it > HO scale Operating Diorama of Xenia's Railroads from 1920s to 1950s > Learn about other areas of Pennsy's Lines West from presentations about the > Panhandle Division, the Erie & Pittsburgh Division & "Faded Glory: > Panhandle > railfanning in Dayton" > See Miracle Castings' HOT new HO cast resin 1st generation cab unit shells > Baldwin's BP20 "Passenger Shark" A&B units and the first run of its > Fairbanks > Morse's Erie-Built A units. > Meet noted PRR author Dan Cupper, a Withers Publishing editor, who will be > selling his own works and Wither's latest installment in its PRR motive > power > series on Baldwin cab & transfer diesels. > Dave's Books, Delaware, Ohio, anticipates having in stock the first > installment of Morning Sun Books' all-new PRR series "Pennsylvania, Standard > Railroad of the World; Vol. 1," now slated for an April 1 release. > Browse through LinesWest Vintage Magazines' more than 150 issues of model > railroad magazines -- Mainline Modeler, Model Railroading, Railmodel Journal, > > Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman -- each with information about > the > PRR. A 12-issue lot of Rails Northeast will be sold via silent auction. > > Take a ride on the Cincinnati, Lebanon & Northern Ry. (once the PRR's > Lebanon > and Middletown branches) > Sunday, April 11, 1999 from 3 p.m. 'til we get back! > Departing from the Turtle Creek Valley Ry. depot, > in Mason, Ohio for the regular fare** of $10 > Special Pennsy Lines West Fans' Fest lodging rates are now available! $42.50 > plus $5.10 tax per night, single or double occupancy for reservations placed > on or before March 15, 1999, > The Allendale Inn, 38 S. Allison Ave. > Xenia, Oho, 937-376-8124 > Next to the Perkins' Pancake House at Allison Avenue & West Main Street (US > 35 > Business Loop) 1 mile west of PRR Lines West Fans Fest More than a dozen > restaurants are located within three blocks of the hotel > > `For more information contact : Tom Vondruska, Pennsylvania Lines West Fans > Fest, > 326 W. Center College St., Yellow Springs, Ohio 45387-1406 > 937-767-1903, voice, data & fax e-mail: > lineswest@aol.com > > ** The fare for CL&N excursion on the Turtle Creek Valley Ry. fare is > separate > from other PRR Lines West Fans Fest admission prices > The Pennsylvania Lines West Fans Fest is a not-for profit educational and > recreational activity produced by VonCom/LinesWest, Yellow Springs, Ohio.. > VonCom/LinesWest is solely responsible for the event. and is not affiliated > with nor an agent of, the Greene County Historical Society. nor of the > Turtle > Creek Valley Ry. Any proceeds will be used for preservation of the PRR > Lines > West heritage as decided by a voice vote at the end of the activities on > April > 10,, 1999. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR The Subject Is PRR Trains Date: Thu, 8 Apr 99 06:15:22 -0400 From: Jerry On 4/7/99 4:07 PM, TVPedro@aol.com (TVPedro@aol.com) wrote: >Doesn't t1duplex@hotmail.com (Kevin Tully) know that he is supposed >to stay on the subject. PRR Talk isn't a channel for social change. Since complaints are starting to hit the list, I'll share with the list what I previously told several complainers who "properly" complained off list: Kevin Tully has been warned (re: Gasoline post). This is his first offense in recent time, so no, he does not automatically go in the "penalty box". Please discontinue this thread. Thank you. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@dsop.com "Keystone Crossings" http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space available at http://www.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Thomas Fry" Subject: [PRR] old books question Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:14:37 -0400 Hey List: I have just purchase a large box of magazines, from the 1944 to 1970 range. They are TRAINS, Pennsy Journal, Railfan, Northeast rail etc etc.. They have many track plans, box car and passenger car prints, etc all in like new condition.. The man I got them from said they where from a mail man who just put them in a pile of undelivered mail years ago. I'm I the last one on the list to have a copy of these, should I go through and make a list of major railline etc and post the list one time. Being new to the list I'm just looking for away to help... I enjoy all the information that comes out each day.. Thanks tom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] old books question Date: Thu, 8 Apr 99 08:54:38 -0400 From: Jerry On 4/8/99 8:14 AM, Thomas Fry (blackhawk@csi.com) wrote: >I have just purchase a large box of magazines, from the 1944 to 1970 range. >They are TRAINS, Pennsy Journal, Railfan, Northeast rail etc etc.. > >They have many track plans, box car and passenger car prints, etc all in >like new condition.. The man I got them from said they where from a mail man >who just put them in a pile of undelivered mail years ago. > >I'm I the last one on the list to have a copy of these, should I go through >and make a list of major railline etc and post the list one time. Keystone Crossings already has an index of Pennsy Journal. I am also in the midst of entering the PRR-relevant index from Rails Northeast. No need to duplicate. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:35:53 EDT Subject: [PRR] post LWFF get-to0gether Rick, I'm so scatter brained. Never having organized anything like this I didn't realize how many details there were. I thought I said I'd be at Otis' at 7 p.m. Friday while it has a kitchen There is also a band I've been told, no cover but noise. But there just doesn't seem to be anyplace else in Xenia. I've rented the Xenia Station, the full size replica of XG Tower and the PRR Freight station and am in the process of arranging Cold cut trays and drinks for 25 We have access to the tower, about six blocks south of the Armory off Detroit Street from 5:30 to 9 p.m... I'm working on the program now. Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: [PRR] Conrail tower demolition (fwd) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:56:19 -0400 (EDT) Received via an Illinois friend. > >NS TOWER DEMOLISHED: > > Conrail's ex-PRR tower in Lima, Ohio (call letters "NS") was > demolished > >today, Wednesday, April 7th, 1999. The same contractor who demolished > >Rochester and MO also > >did NS. They will demolish RAVE Tower in Ravenna, Ohio upon completion > >of the Lima project, perhaps as early as Friday. From there, it is on to > >other towers along the Conrail ystem such as AR, MG, Berea, Marion, etc. > > > >Information courtesy of: J.E. Landrum -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ogarasteam@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:33:30 EDT Subject: [PRR] Backmann newest modernized K-4 I don't know if this has been reported in the past but does any member have a fix on keeping the tender on the tracks. I have loosen the screws but this does not seem to help. The wires to the tender have play. I am at the point of pulling the little hair I have left out. The engine looks to nice to throw out. Joe o. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Eichhorn@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:21:53 EDT Subject: [PRR] Timonium, April 17 Hi Guys, Any of the list members planning on attending the Timonium show on the 17th of April? Regards, George ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:59:45 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Backmann newest modernized K-4 In a message dated 4/8/99 11:02:12 AM Central Daylight Time, Ogarasteam@aol.com writes: << I don't know if this has been reported in the past but does any member have a fix on keeping the tender on the tracks. I have loosen the screws but this does not seem to help. The wires to the tender have play. I am at the point of pulling the little hair I have left out. The engine looks to nice to throw out. >> Strangely enough, I haven't had any problem with this loco except lack of pulling power. I seem to vaguely recall putting some weight in the tender (having a senior moment right now). Have had no problem with the derailing problems over switches or any other trackage. Heard some were having problem with it "engine light" so tried that and again no problems. Pulled a 5-car train out of our passenger depot through two Shinohara No. 8 doubleslips without hesitation on a DCC layout. Maybe I just hit it lucky with the model I got. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kevin Tully" Subject: [PRR] Ooooooooookkkkkkaaaaaayyy Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 12:45:00 PDT To all, As I have not posted anything for a LONG time, I can't resist posting back to some of the replies I got. Let me start by saying, OK, I perhaps should not have sent this post about the Gas Out to PRR-Talk. I'M SORRY. SO, from now on, (lets all agree on this) NO MORE POSTS THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PRR. That means no more posts about babies being born, modifications to houses, people that have passed on, or anything else that has NOTHING to do with the Pennsy. Everyone agreed? Ok, now, lets move on. I'm glad to see that everyone on this list is still wonderful people who know how to use the delete button when they get a post they don't want to read. Have a nice day everyone, and remember Jerry, my offer still stands to drive all the way from Columbia Maryland to give you a hand with the layout. Kevin Tully _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Charles E. Whary" Subject: [PRR] PRR Brass Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:52:12 -0400 To all: I have three models remaining from my collection: H-10 U/P, Q-2 P/P, & GG-1 F/P. Any interest please E-mail, Thanx. Charles E. Whary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 18:12:30 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Backmann newest modernized K-4 >From discussion on the AOL RR boards the problem is in the drawbar design. I do not recall the modifications required but it is straight forward. Since you are an AOL member you should be able to reference past messages on the HO forum which covered it in detail. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR Model Photo PRR List, Hello, quiet night tonight! Any reason why? Thought I would post a Pennsy model loco pic to start some action. Photo is of a Westside G-5. It can be found at: www.goodnet.com/~mittner/pennsy1.jpg I will periodically place a photo on these slow nights to keep you all awake. Enjoy! Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PRRSignals" Subject: [PRR] ***that other GG1 wreck...# 4936..* Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:51:34 -0400 ***BTW, I was doing other research, and finally found the "other" GG1 wreck, near Holmesburg Jct, on April 25, 1971...that was discussed previously along with the LANE wreck of the # 4930 that I had already detailed... Details and photos are in Rails Northeast, March 1976 issue........... BGOA30............bill*** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 22:48:18 -0500 From: Andy Cich Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Model Photo doloris mittner wrote: > > PRR List, > > Hello, quiet night tonight! Any reason why? Thought I would post a > Pennsy model loco pic to start some action. Photo is of a Westside G-5. > It can be found at: www.goodnet.com/~mittner/pennsy1.jpg > I will periodically place a photo on these slow nights to keep you all > awake. Enjoy! Gary > Nice model! I like the trackwork detailing too. Keep 'em coming. Thanks, Andy C. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 00:22:07 EDT Subject: [PRR] Final LWFF update and PTT To all: I'm pleased so many of you responded positively to what six months ago seemed like a never attainable pipe dream, a meet devoted to Pennsylvania Lines West. I can'f believe its actually will be happening. Here's a schedule of events as they are lining up right now . Friday, April 9 7 p.m. informal gathering in Otis' restaurant on Detroit Street (US 68) at Market Street across from the Greene County Court House and Xenia Municipal Building. Saturday 8 a. m doors open for set up 10 a.m. Public opening 10:30-11:30 a.m. Faded Glory: The PRR in Dayton, Rick Tipton 11:45 a.m. - 12:45 p.m. The Erie & Pittsburgh Division, Al Buchan 1:00-2:00 p. m, Columbus, hub of the Panhandle; Dan Adair 2:15-3:15 p.m. Building Resin kits and an introduction to Miracle Castings locomotive shells, Pat Lawless of Miracle castings Operating diorama of Xenia's Railroad at the Greene County Historical Society Carriage House Museum, 34 W. Church Street, will be open from 2 to 5 p.m. with a presentation on its planning and construction set for 3 p.m. at the museum. 4 p.m. LWFF closes 4:30 until? get together at Xenia Station, full-size XG tower replica. Main display will be by the Cincinnati Division Modelers. Dave Hickcox will have two tables of Railroadiana, Dick Hoover will have three, both specialize in Pennsy paper, books and artifacts, Don Adair a custom painter and brass dealer will be there, again, he's a Pennsy specialist Pat Lawless and Miracle castings' HO shells are the big draw. They'll have a table and will be doing a presentation. The GR&I RR Hist. Soc. will have a table and there will be a display on the network of bike paths radiating from Xenia using PRR right of ways and I will be selling my magazines with PRR articles and my 12 issues of Rails Northeast. Dan Cupper will be selling his and Withers Pub. books. Sunday 11 a.m. to 4 p.m. Springfield Train Show, Clark County Fairgrounds, Ohio 41 just north of Interstate 70, at second interchange east of US 68 admission $3-$4 (I forget) 3 p.m. Departure of SPF run on the CL&N from the Turtle Creek Valley Ry., Mason, Ohio. Regular $10 fare (NOT included with any LWFF fee) MUST BE PAID AT DEPOT. Directions will be included in program. Need rooms and Allendale Inn Filled, try the Econo Lodge, US 35 at Orchard Lane four miles west of Xenia (937) 426-5822. Directions: >From the east and North Interstate 76 to US 68 South, last Springfield interchange. US 68 souith approx. 20 miles to Xenia. Armory is on east side of the street (left) one long block south of fourth light in Xenia (speedway gas station at light) Recommended way from east: exit I-70 onto US 42 at London and take US 42 to Xenia following C&X Columbus Division RoW nearly the entire way >From the West from Dayton US 35 east to Xenia, take first Xenia exit "W. Main St./US 35 business loop (get in left lane and go straight) At Court House turn north on Detroit Street (US 68). Armory is on right three-four blocks north of Court House on right on the northern edge of the park. >From the South From Cincinnati, I recommend taking Interstate 71 north to the Lebanon/Ohio 48 North, first interchange north of King's Island. Stay on the highway until it dead ends into US 42 North of Lebanon, turn right (north) on to US 42 (don't worry two lane driving lasts only about six miles, most of the way to Xenia is four-lane divided highway). Xenia is about 24 miles north. Stay on US 42 into Xenia. (it becomes Cincinnati Avenue) until Cincinnati dead ends into West Main Street (US 35 Business Loop) Turn right and go east four blocks to Detroit Street (US 68) at the Greene County Courthouse. Turn left (North) onto Detroit Street (US 68). Armory is about four blocks north on the northern edge of Shawnee Park. (the bike path you see two block north of the courthouse is built on the Springfield Branch/Little Miami RR right of way. See all ya'll Saturday, Tom V.. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 06:46:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Backmann newest modernized K-4 Joe, Hi, yes I posted this same quetion about 2 weeks ago. I had several suggestions emailed to me to lossen those screws. But before I recieved any I took that draw bar completely out and made my own "straight" draw bar. NO pivots. I used a piece of styrene 1/4" wide, (wider at the ends) so the screw in the enigine and the screw in the tender can hold it in place. The length can be determined by the old draw bar length + a little longer just to be sure you have enough clearence between engine and tender. WORKED! I can fly 150MPH through all kind of switches. Backwards and forwards! That is the way Bachmann should have done it in the first place. Hope it works for you if you try it. Gary PS: A little bit of wieght in the tender helps also. Be sure you don't short anything out by placing something metal on the electronics in the tender! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:18:58 EDT Subject: [PRR] Is Everyone in Cincinnati All Right? To all, especially those in Cincinnati. Having watched the news from Dayton TV of this morning's twister in northern Hamilton County, Warren and Clinton counties in Ohio, I pray that all our friends in Cincinnati made it through the night all right. The news report says damage is worst along Interstate 275 in Blue Ash and Montgomery. This would place it near the CL&N line and just to the south and east of Mason. I'll contact Tom McOwen at the Turtle Creek Valley Railway this morning to see is his operations are being effected in ways that will impact Sunday's trip. Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ted.andrews@woolpert.com Date: Fri, 09 Apr 99 09:32:54 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Model Photo Gary: Thank you for sharing this engine with us. It looks like you did a GREAT job on the paint and weathering! What engine number is it? A few years ago, I bought a Westside G-5. It was basically in near mint condition. Westside imported these in 1975; they came with a open frame motor. Did you repower your unit? If so, what did you use? Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: [PRR] PRR Model Photo Author: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) at Internet Date: 4/8/99 11:48 PM PRR List, Hello, quiet night tonight! Any reason why? Thought I would post a Pennsy model loco pic to start some action. Photo is of a Westside G-5. It can be found at: www.goodnet.com/~mittner/pennsy1.jpg I will periodically place a photo on these slow nights to keep you all awake. Enjoy! Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:43:28 EDT Subject: [PRR] EXPECT LWFF FAN TRIP TO BE CANCELLED To all: It now appears extremely likely that Sunday's: LWFF FAN TRIP ON THE TURTLE CREEK VALLEY RY WILL BE CANCELED A major tornado, described as an F4 or F5, struck the northern suburbs of Cincinnati with the area of greatest damage being just south and east of Mason, Ohio. More than 200,000 utility customers in Hamilton and Warren counties are without power at this time (10:23 a.m. Friday, April 9). Mason is in Warren County just north of the Hamilton County line. I do not think that things will be settled enough for the Trip to occur. Telephone Service in the area has been disrupt so it will be some time before I would be able to telephone McOwen. No final decision has been made but it don't look good. Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Model Photo Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:53:38 -0400 Gary, Nice job on the engine! Is the trackwork it's on part of your layout? The ballast job is very realistic. Ted, Do you really want to repower it? The Westside M1 I have has an open frame motor and runs very smoothly and can pull like a Bowser. To the guys on the list(btw are there any ladies on prr-talk?) Just got a Sunset B-6, I need to know 2 things? I model 1955->1960 1) proper road number for an engine somewhere near Enola 2) Should it have a red tender deck and cab roof? Thanks in advance. Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Harris Tower Date: Fri, 9 Apr 99 15:19:18 -0400 From: Jerry On 4/9/99 2:00 PM, Chany, Christopher (cpc1@co.westchester.ny.us) wrote: > Probably Jerry can answer this but I'll put it out to the list. > >I need to know a good color to match the brick color of Harris tower. >The last time I saw it I seem to remember it being a brownish red, more >than a brick red. That's probably true...at present. But what era are you modeling? If anything, it probably looks better now than it did 10-15 years ago, since the Harrisburg Chapter of the NRHS purchased it from Amtrak. They've done a lot of work on the outside, perhaps sandblasting, I don't know. I do know they have done a lot of painting around the windows and doors. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Harris Tower Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:00:41 -0400 PRR-Talkers, Probably Jerry can answer this but I'll put it out to the list. I need to know a good color to match the brick color of Harris tower. The last time I saw it I seem to remember it being a brownish red, more than a brick red. Thanks in advance, Chris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Harris Tower Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:41:53 -0400 Sorry Jerry, I modeling Harris tower around 1955->1960. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:53:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Model Photo Chris, Hello, and thanks!. I built a small square platform to take photos on. Roughly 20"x20". Once I get a paint job done I take it outside on this platform and take pictures. One for my record and one goes to my customer. The track is just atlas flex ballasted and weathered. It is better than taking a photo on a wood display stand. I just looked up my B6sb photos and I don't have any showing service in the Enola area. The closet I come is West Philly in 1946 Loco # is 6390. Someone out there will come up with one for you probably. Thanks again, Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ted.andrews@woolpert.com Date: Fri, 09 Apr 99 16:56:38 EST Subject: Re[2]: [PRR] PRR Model Photo Chris: I think that it depends on the engine and motor. I have a Gem Models M-1b (Seiko) that runs like a watch ;) The G-5, on the other hand, draws high amperage when running. It is also kinda slow even at full throttle. I have not taken it apart but it does not appear that anything is binding. Re-powering brass engines is brand new to me but that is what I am leaning towards. One great thing about Japanese PRR brass from the '60's and '70's is that they were solidly built and really caught the conceptual "look" of the prototypes. The detail might be sparce, but these engines are beauties especially when they are painted like how Gary painted his! Also, Japanese PRR brass can be bought at affordable prices if you look around long enough. The G-5, for example, I bought in a suburban Chicago hobby shop (Timeless Hobbies) in 1997 for $170........yes, that's right, $170. I could not believe it myself! One can sometimes find some of these brass units in the $200-$400 range. I know that this can be expensive to alot of modelers but it can also rival the Bowser engines especially in the $200-$300 range. Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Model Photo Author: "Chany, Christopher" at Internet Date: 4/9/99 3:33 PM Gary, Nice job on the engine! Is the trackwork it's on part of your layout? The ballast job is very realistic. Ted, Do you really want to repower it? The Westside M1 I have has an open frame motor and runs very smoothly and can pull like a Bowser. To the guys on the list(btw are there any ladies on prr-talk?) Just got a Sunset B-6, I need to know 2 things? I model 1955->1960 1) proper road number for an engine somewhere near Enola 2) Should it have a red tender deck and cab roof? Thanks in advance. Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:29:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR Photo #2 PRR List, Thanks to all who emailed me saying they enjoyed the G5 photo I listed last night. Some members of the list thought it would be a great idea to continue listing. Well, I am back with another. It can be viewed at the following: http://www.goodnet.com/~mittner/pennsy4.jpg This is a Custom Brass Imports version of a 1940's streamlined K4s. It was painted with my rendition of Brunswick Green and decaled with a combination of manufactures. It was finished with the addition of a nickel plated Keystone Number plate and "The Jeffersonian" Name plate. Runs like a watch! PS: I have been painting locos for quite a few years now and have built up a nice little collection of photos of the completed models. If it is OK with Jerry, I will continue listing these periodically. This maybe the last for awhile until I get the chance to have more photos scanned and placed on the web-page. So until later, enjoy the pic. Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: FarbLand@aol.com Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 00:59:15 EDT Subject: [PRR] I1sa ok I need some information on I1sa specifically number of the ones that had double pumps and tenders off of T-1's (I think the tender was off a T1 anyway since it is welded, I could be mistaken) I have the info here somewhere but I figure someone on the list will be able to answer my questions quicker. Thanks Brian C ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian Brandt" Subject: Re: [PRR] Timonium, April 17 Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:13:01 -0400 How about Sunday April 18? Brian Brandt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Richard F. Makse" Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE question. Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:54:28 -0400 John Rosenbauer writes: > I am involved in a discussion with a gentleman who is claiming there > were 2 shades of DGLE. One was the very dark almost black shade and the > other was more of an olive green. I have a fairly extensive selection of > books on the Pennsy and have never read or heard of this olive green and > do not believe it ever existed but he is adamant. Who is correct?? No, No! Not the dreaded DGLE thread again. Can you imagine a can of paint that is alive! I think I want to write a screenplay for John Carpenter. Need a title: "Hush, hush, sweet Dupont" or "Enamels from Hell" or "Paint my covered Wagon"... sorry, J.W., my medicine is wearing off. :>)) Dick Makse ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:19:54 -0400 From: John W Rosenbauer Subject: [PRR] DGLE question. Folks, I am involved in a discussion with a gentleman who is claiming there were 2 shades of DGLE. One was the very dark almost black shade and the other was more of an olive green. I have a fairly extensive selection of books on the Pennsy and have never read or heard of this olive green and do not believe it ever existed but he is adamant. Who is correct?? Thanks, J.W.Rosenbauer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:45:55 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE question. J.W. There is only one DGLE. The olive color was a figment of the imagination of manufactures who refused to try and match DGLE. They have persisted in this misinformation in an effort to justify there errors. The only PRR color close to "olive" was the Sage Green Building paint ref. No. 43-2371. I repeat this was a building paint not locomotive or rolling stock. The only other use of green paint that I am aware of was on turn of the century passenger cars. This was a fairly bright green combined with a lemon yellow and scarlet red. This scheme can be seen on paintings of the "Yellow Kid" -- the early Pennsylvania Limited. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Laird, Bill" Subject: [PRR] Speeders, Putt-Putts, and Section Cars Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:59:31 -0500 Until recently railroads used section cars (also known as speeders, inspection cars, or putt-putts) to haul MOW and signal maintenance personnel and light equipment and material. We are all familar with these and sometimes model a section house with a speeder set-out next to it. The best known, but not only, manufacturer of these critters was Fairmont. I am constructing a model 7 1/2" guage Fairmont M-19 section car powered by a 3.5 HP gasoline engine, (plans from August 1984 issue of Modeltec Magazine). Yes, it is big enough to ride on and I intend to run it on our club track, (Houston Area Live Steamers). I want to paint and letter it per PRR. Now to my questions. What was the PRR paint scheme for section cars? Where there any PRR unique markings? My research so far, limited to photographs in Pensey Color Guides and in the great series on MOW that Al Buchan did in Model Railroading a few years ago, show them to be painted a solid yellow. Was this Pennsy Camp Car Yellow or some other shade? The only markings I have been able to identify so far are a number on the front, appears to be black letters perhaps 2" high, my guess the equipment "unit" number. Where there any PRR specific markings? Bill, from your work in signals you must have ridden these things many times and Al you must have encountered them daily in MOW work. What do you remember? Any specific recollections or leads to documentation would be greatly appreciated. Bill Laird (old enough to have ridden tuscan coaches behind steam, and yes I did) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BowerPRR@aol.com Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:46:46 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Color Drift Cards Why don't you folks cut to the chase and purchase the PRR color drift cards from the PRRT&HS and end the myths and speculation of what color DLGE or what ever really is!!! Brad Bower ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:48:04 -1000 From: "Eric J. Minton" Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE question. Aloha At 05:54 PM 4/10/99 -0400, Richard F. Make wrote: >John Rosenbauer writes: >I think I want to write a screenplay for John Carpenter. Need a title: >"Hush, hush, sweet Dupont" or "Enamels from Hell" or "Paint my covered >Wagon"... > >sorry, J.W., my medicine is wearing off. :>)) > >Dick Makse But I like these tittles, What about film rights (:>}} Eric ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 00:32:07 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE question. Say, wasn't Charlton Heston in a movie that dealt with this subject? Called "Soilent Green", I think it was. It was a sci-fi flick make back in the 70's. And, hey, what about his ealier movie, from the 50's called "Green Hell" (Remember, where the army ants ate his plantation down yonder in South America?). That one must surely have been based on the "DGLE"/ Brunswick green conflict. Oh boy, it's gotta be bedtime. Too much benchwork for one day. Beam me up, Scotty, BP out. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 00:36:11 -0400 From: John W Rosenbauer Subject: [PRR] DGLE. We can stop now. OK guys, I got the answer I needed, thanks. I don't know if the guy I was trying to convince will believe it but.... Now we can let this thread die. Thanks, J.W.Rosenbauer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 00:12:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE question.***mucking up the prr-barf list.....**** Bill, and fellow DGLE guys, My hands are clean on this one. Or should I say Green. No, I mean CLEAN! No more from me on this subject. I am still licking my wounds from the lashing I took several months back. Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PRRSignals" Subject: Re: [PRR] Speeders, Putt-Putts, and Section Cars Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:53:29 -0400 ****Hi, Bill, and all- I would have loved to have one asigned to us !!!! All's they would give us signal guyze in the mid-1960's was highway vans and trucks, and for rail movements = that aluminum frame, put-together non-power cart for moving switch movements and other heavy parts. Quite a thrill to find a train heading your way, gotta get it clear ASAP !!!! All else done by truck, despite my ( naive and railfannish ) suggestions at the time to utilize Hi-rail vehicles, etc. Driving onto the Bel-Del right-of-way was a real challenge, but the single track Branch Lines were too busy to allow Hi-railers out there ! Only the MofW Dept got the speeders for track patrolling and work, and my memory matches your statements as far as Yellow, black letter numbers, no RR ID at all, since they were pretty captive to a section / area. There were some 'home-made' decorations, akin to the wire train that "smiled", but only unofficial..... During the high speed / Metroliner project prep ( 1966-68 ), they would put together a string of speeders and trailers and all move out to the work site. Later on, Burro cranes were seen more frequently, and speeders less. The Form M was for " TC No. xxx and 25 additional pieces".....a real pain / excuse me, "operating challenge" to get off the ought track and out of COUNTY onto tracks two or three west thereof. Except for an occasional "hitch-hike", most of my Put-put rides were on non-PRR rails, in later years using private speeders on lesser-used trackage ( New Jersey Southern, CNJ, etc.) We will have to wait for PRR Brother Al Buchan to return from Tom's Lines West Fest ! . .Lines East Bill, also old enough !!!! **** >Bill, from your work in signals you must have ridden these things many times >and Al you must have encountered them daily in MOW work. What do you >remember? Any specific recollections or leads to documentation would be >greatly appreciated. > >Bill Laird >(old enough to have ridden tuscan coaches behind steam, and yes I did) > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce >site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 08:58:53 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE question. The day I brought home our first color TV there was a Saturday afternoon horror flick on the air called "The Green Slime." Made quite an impression on all of us --my daughters have never forgotten it... The Heston ant movie was "The Naked Jungle" (retitled???) and was a remake of an earlier (1946-7) radio broadcast titled "Laningen (or Leinengen) and the Ants." In that version he was killed by the ants at the end. Steve Bartlett BPX29@aol.com wrote: > > Say, wasn't Charlton Heston in a movie that dealt with this subject? Called > "Soilent Green", I think it was. It was a sci-fi flick make back in the 70's. > And, hey, what about his ealier movie, from the 50's called "Green Hell" > (Remember, where the army ants ate his plantation down yonder in South > America?). That one must surely have been based on the "DGLE"/ Brunswick > green conflict. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:54:57 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: Final LWFF update and PTT Don't worry. Dan Adair and I are talking about having that 2000 LWFF at the museum in Dennison, Ohio, and having an Ohio Central steam excursion to Gould's tunnel. The guys from the GR&I RRHS are interested about finding a Michigan location for the 2001 LWFF! LWFF 1 attracted 45+ modelers from at least six states and featured the American train show debut of Pat Lawless' Erie built A units, the first sales shot of which were made last week. It's an impressive kit as is the BP20 Passenger shark A &B. I'll be reviewing four hours of view tape and either have it transcribed into text or edited into a marketable tape. Goal is to have some record of the six presentations available for sale at the PRRT&HS convention in August. I'm liquidating my Pennsy holdings so I now have enough money to pay my 1999 T&HS dues. Highlight was the three hours about 20 of us spent swapping lies in Xenia's full size replica of XG tower during our after show "banquet" During which Dan Cupper told of being on the last passenger train to pass through Xenia, the last westward run of the National Limited in October 1979 and Bill Benysh described photographing that last run as chief photographer for the Xenia Daily Gazette. See you in Altoona and then .......DENNISON? Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:30:31 +0100 From: "John H. Wright" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Model Photo In message <9903099237.AA923705960@ccmail-gw.woolpert.com>, ted.andrews@woolpert.com writes >I think that it depends on the engine and motor. I have a Gem Models M-1b > (Seiko) that runs like a watch ;) > > The G-5, on the other hand, draws high amperage when running. It is also > kinda slow even at full throttle. I have not taken it apart but it does > not appear that anything is binding. > > Re-powering brass engines is brand new to me but that is what I am leaning > towards. > > One great thing about Japanese PRR brass from the '60's and '70's is that > they were solidly built and really caught the conceptual "look" of the > prototypes. The detail might be sparce, but these engines are beauties > especially when they are painted like how Gary painted his! > > Also, Japanese PRR brass can be bought at affordable prices if you look > around long enough. The G-5, for example, I bought in a suburban Chicago > hobby shop (Timeless Hobbies) in 1997 for $170........yes, that's right, > $170. I could not believe it myself! One can sometimes find some of these > brass units in the $200-$400 range. I know that this can be expensive to > alot of modelers but it can also rival the Bowser engines especially in > the $200-$300 range. My Westside G5 still retains its open frame motor, one of only a couple of my locos I've not yet replaced with a can. It runs pretty well as is, from a crawl to full speed and at the moment the only reason I can see for replacing the motor is it fills the cab somewhat. A can would occupy less space and a boiler backhead might just be squeezed in. I agree there are still some reasonably priced locos around, but I suppose we're lucky the PRR didn't have too many artics.... it's hard to spot even venerable specimens for under a $1000 these days. Glad I got my T1s and J1 a few years ago, too. But, as has been mentioned, it's still not too bad with the smaller engines. I've recently got a K2 from Caboose Hobbies which has worked out at around 170 GBP for me. If you consider that you simply cannot buy an equivalent quality loco of any U.K prototype for that sort of money then prices take on their correct proportions. I'm in the process of rebuilding this loco into K3s 8656 of which I have a nice photo from a Keystone Special Publication of 1974. Anyone who's got a Westside K2 noted that you can just make out that the builder's plate says K3? Did Samhongsa only do one boiler for their K2/K3 locos, I wonder. I intend taking a Lines West tender off one of my Sunset H10s to run behind 8656 as per photo but would greatly appreciate any remarks from the group as to modifications I might need to make on the tender. As soon as its possible I'll place some photos on the website ....... all the loco modifications have been done so it shouldn't be too long. I'd be very interested to hear about other folks' experiences with their PRR brass, nice to see pictures on the web, too. Regards, -- John H. Wright Visit the Newcastle & District Model Railway Society's web site at: http://www.jhwright.demon.co.uk/index.htm Descriptions and views of our layouts in: Z, N, HO (USA), HO (Continental), OO, P4, and O Gauge Plus members' layouts, exhibitions, fun stuff, building techniques, model railway & railroad links, stories, news and events. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:44:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR N1s PRR List, Just letting everyone know I have listed the PRR N1s on ebay this evening. Type in PRR N1s in search and you will find it. Read and view the pic and decide if it is good enough for your roster. Thank You for your attention, Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:59:53 -0700 From: ironhorse@sprintmail.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Rivarossi Passenger Cars Greetings, The PRR pool service cars that AHM/Rivarossi/IHC did were (by product number)all smoothside 10/6 roomettes: #6613: BLUE RAPIDS 2-tone gray for UP Overland service #6618: IMPERIAL PARK 2-tone gray for ATSF service #6619: BUFFALO RAPIDS in UP yellow scheme I used to work for IHC in the early 1990's and put one or two more of these in the pipeline, but they were never made--I believe because of legal problems with Rivarossi, but I don't know for sure. Chuck Friedlein ted.andrews@woolpert.com wrote: > > Dear PRR list: > > I am looking for a needle in a haystack! I am looking for the PRR service > pool cars that IHC introduced a few years ago. I "believe" that IHC came > out 3 of them: "Buffalo Rapids" 10/6 pullman painted in UP colors (yellow > & gray), "Blue Rapids" 10/6 pullman painted in two tone gray, and > "Imperial" series pullman (it should be a 4/4/2 and not a 10/6) in two > tone gray. Did IHC come out with any more pool cars for the PRR? > > Right now, I am looking for the "Blue Rapids" car. > > In addition, I am looking for the Erie RR 2-tone green Baggage car and > about 3-4 coaches. NOTE: I know that this is a PRR list so I will keep my > comments about these Erie cars at a minimum! > > At any rate, perhaps some of you on this list are in the same situation > that I am in. IHC came out with variety of PRR passenger stuff in > heavyweight, smoothside 1930's lightweight (ACF) and the corrugated 1940's > lightweight (Budd). Model Expo is the current importer of Rivarossi. Last > year, Model Expo announced the reintroduction of individual passenger cars > in addition to their 4-car sets. The arrival of these cars has been pushed > back numerous times; at the time of this writing, the new date is June. > Well, we'll see....... > > Given the uncertain future availability of Rivarossi cars, does anyone out > there know of dealers, hobby shops, individuals, etc., that currently have > a large stock of these cars that they are selling? I have mentioned what I > am looking for above, perhaps someone else on this list is looking for > other PRR cars too. > > If any of you know where an extra "Blue Rapids" car and Erie cars are, > please contact me off line. I would GREATLY appreciate it! > > Thank you! > > Ted Andrews > Carmel, Indiana > > > P.S.: I have looked on Ebay and I have drawn nothing but blanks > > > P.P.S.: Bachmann Spectrum will formally announce the 2nd run of their > Pullman heavyweight car this summer. One roadname of interest is "Pullman" > in Pullman Green. I read somewhere, either in MR or the Keystone, that > this particular car the PRR never had painted in Tuscan Red. The PRR had > just one of these types of pullmans assigned to them and it was painted > Pullman Green. I do not have the article in front of me so if I am in > error, please correct me. At any rate, this car painted Pullman Green > should be a nice addition to one's layout. > > Hmmmm, I wonder if Pullman fans ever have debates over the correct shade > of Pullman Green ;-)~ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce > site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ted.andrews@woolpert.com Date: Sun, 11 Apr 99 21:43:04 EST Subject: [PRR] Rivarossi Passenger Cars Dear PRR list: I am looking for a needle in a haystack! I am looking for the PRR service pool cars that IHC introduced a few years ago. I "believe" that IHC came out 3 of them: "Buffalo Rapids" 10/6 pullman painted in UP colors (yellow & gray), "Blue Rapids" 10/6 pullman painted in two tone gray, and "Imperial" series pullman (it should be a 4/4/2 and not a 10/6) in two tone gray. Did IHC come out with any more pool cars for the PRR? Right now, I am looking for the "Blue Rapids" car. In addition, I am looking for the Erie RR 2-tone green Baggage car and about 3-4 coaches. NOTE: I know that this is a PRR list so I will keep my comments about these Erie cars at a minimum! At any rate, perhaps some of you on this list are in the same situation that I am in. IHC came out with variety of PRR passenger stuff in heavyweight, smoothside 1930's lightweight (ACF) and the corrugated 1940's lightweight (Budd). Model Expo is the current importer of Rivarossi. Last year, Model Expo announced the reintroduction of individual passenger cars in addition to their 4-car sets. The arrival of these cars has been pushed back numerous times; at the time of this writing, the new date is June. Well, we'll see....... Given the uncertain future availability of Rivarossi cars, does anyone out there know of dealers, hobby shops, individuals, etc., that currently have a large stock of these cars that they are selling? I have mentioned what I am looking for above, perhaps someone else on this list is looking for other PRR cars too. If any of you know where an extra "Blue Rapids" car and Erie cars are, please contact me off line. I would GREATLY appreciate it! Thank you! Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana P.S.: I have looked on Ebay and I have drawn nothing but blanks P.P.S.: Bachmann Spectrum will formally announce the 2nd run of their Pullman heavyweight car this summer. One roadname of interest is "Pullman" in Pullman Green. I read somewhere, either in MR or the Keystone, that this particular car the PRR never had painted in Tuscan Red. The PRR had just one of these types of pullmans assigned to them and it was painted Pullman Green. I do not have the article in front of me so if I am in error, please correct me. At any rate, this car painted Pullman Green should be a nice addition to one's layout. Hmmmm, I wonder if Pullman fans ever have debates over the correct shade of Pullman Green ;-)~ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:09:40 -0400 From: Livingston Subject: [PRR] Re: DGLE darker than KCS Black-Green ted.andrews@woolpert.com wrote: > > Dear PRR list: > Hmmmm, I wonder if Pullman fans ever have debates over the correct shade > of Pullman Green ;-)~ Yes, but now that we have the color sample in Dubin's PULLMAN PAINT & LETTERING NOTEBOOK we can throw around references to 70-10 Green like we really know what we are talking about. By the way, Pullmam painted Kansas City Southern cars dark green with red and yellow bands along the lower edge in 1940-41, and for years everyone thought the green was black. The book says DGLE was even darker than the KCS green everyone perceived as black. Also by the way, US Army vehicles from 1942-50 were painted Olive Drab in a commercial shade called "Panama Pullman Green." The Army called it #319. Has anyone ever heard of Panama Pullman Green? Was it the same as the standard Pullman Green #70-10 which was in use from c. 1905 thru the end of the heavyweight era? Was it named for the Illinois Central Panama Limited? (sorry for the heinous digression, but-- I wanna know!) -- Robert Livingston > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:44:03 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE question. Hi All, >Rich Orr said: >There is only one DGLE. The olive color was a figment of the imagination of >manufactures who refused to try and match DGLE. They have persisted in this >misinformation in an effort to justify there errors. The only PRR color >close to "olive" was the Sage Green Building paint ref. No. 43-2371. Awwww Rich, you had me agreeing there, and then you had to say that last line! If you look at your PRR passenger car painting diagrams, "olive" was the color of all PRR passenger car trucks and underbody equipment such as airconditioning airtanks generators etc. up unitl the 50's! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:40:48 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Color Drift Cards >Why don't you folks cut to the chase and purchase the PRR color drift cards >from the PRRT&HS and end the myths and speculation of what color DLGE or what >ever really is!!! Brad, Just a gentle note of reality...the color drift cards are exactly that... cards the allow the "drift" in color to be documented..and are only available for certain years. I believe the current PRRT&HS set is for the 50's and may not be precise representations of earlier shades of the same color. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] PRR Colors Date: Mon, 12 Apr 99 10:00:47 -0400 From: Jerry The PRR color drift cards available from the PRRT&HS are indeed 1950's vintage. Only 13 of the 14 are still available...for $25 a set. Freight Car Color is sold out. Another great source is the Tilp/Blardone book "Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger Car Painting and Lettering" (or some such title) available from the PRRT&HS. The hardback is sold out, but I purchased a softcover for around $30 about three years ago. Besides containing a wealth of information on PRR passenger cars, it contains large paint swatches at the very end of the book. Don't know how well these colors will hold up over time, but it's a real good start. BTW: Andy Miller had recommended Floquil's UP Armor Yellow as a substitute for the PRR's Dulux Gold...I have found it to be very close and more than acceptible. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:58:06 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE question. In a message dated 4/12/99 9:53:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, smithbf@mail.auburn.edu writes: << Awwww Rich, you had me agreeing there, and then you had to say that last line! If you look at your PRR passenger car painting diagrams, "olive" was the color of all PRR passenger car trucks and underbody equipment such as airconditioning airtanks generators etc. up unitl the 50's! >> Hmmmm, I forgot those underbody passenger colors. Are you sure the olive underbody color lasted into the 50's? Need to check Blardone and Tilip's book on that one. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:13:45 -0800 From: Ron Dugas Subject: [PRR] Pool Service Pax Equip? Hi All, In past and recent posts we have discussed the "Pool Service" sleepers that were painted in other roads colors and owned by and lettered for the PRR. This brings up a question: Did the opposite exist, that is, cars that were painted in Pennsy colors but that were owned by and lettered for the other roads? Thanks in advance, Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] DGLE question. Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:44:49 -0400 -----Original Message----- From: Chany, Christopher Sent: Monday, April 12, 1999 11:46 AM To: 'prrr-talk@dsop.com' Subject: RE: [PRR] DGLE question. PRR Talkers, I think one of the other problems with the DGLE color is that a few years ago RMC ran color drawings of a GG1 in a green that was olive in color (certainly lighter than DGLE) the explanation in the text was that this was faded DGLE. If anyone has seen the GG1's at Strasburg after they had been sitting out in the yard for a couple of years they know what I mean. I think however with today's new paints engines such as the GEEP on Horseshoe the engines don't fade as much. Chris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Robert Schoenberg" Subject: [PRR] FW: Schyukill River Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:20:07 -0400 Hi all, I received this inquiry on my web site. Can anyone help Eric out? Please make sure you cc Eric on any replies! -- Rob http://prr.railfan.net -----Original Message----- From: LEECUSHING@aol.com [mailto:LEECUSHING@aol.com] Sent: Friday, April 09, 1999 7:55 PM To: robs@railfan.net Subject: Schyukill River Rob, Do you know anything about the PRR line that ran along the Schuykill River. It ran along Norristown, PA. It is now a bike trail. I think it the tracks were torn up in the early eighties. I cant find any web sites that deal with when rail lines were abonden. There is also a reading line that was torn down along the perkiomen creek in Montgomery County pa. Any info you have would be helpful. Thanx, Eric ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Miracle Castings Inc." Subject: [PRR] Lines West Fan Fest was a big success! Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:32:06 -0400 Hi All! Just wanted to publicly thank Tom for all his hard work in organizing the LWFF. It was a great success in my opinion. Mike and I really enjoyed the event, and made lots of good contacts for Miracle Castings. People got a good look at our models first hand, and it was a good opportunity for them to ask questions about our products. Also, we were very impressed by the layout in the Xenia Historical Society building, as well as by the rest of the museum. Xenia is a nice place, and with a lot of nice people as well. Thanks again, and it was good to meet some of the people that I've corresponded with over this list for the last year. Regards to you all! Pat Lawless ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:25:05 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Pool Service Pax Equip? RF&P "King" series 10-6s L&N 10-6s Anyone know of any others? Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Ron Dugas wrote: > > Hi All, > > In past and recent posts we have discussed the "Pool Service" sleepers > that were painted in other roads colors and owned by and lettered for > the PRR. This brings up a question: Did the opposite exist, that is, > cars that were painted in Pennsy colors but that were owned by and > lettered for the other roads? > > Thanks in advance, > > Ron. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce > site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:45:45 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] Pool Service Pax Equip? Ron, The New Haven owned at least one Pullman car painted for PRR: "Victoria Tower," 8 Section 1 Drawing Room - 3 Compartment, was Tuscan Red with postwar gold striping - single stripe above the windows and a double stripe below the windows. Lettering included the name, "NEW HAVEN" at the letterboard center, and small "PULLMAN" next to the vestibule side doors. I cannot say whether it was metallic or imitation gold. The NH purchased 3 cars of this type from Pullman in 1948. This information is from NHRTHA Data Sheet 5.730. I am sure I have seen at least one more NH car in this scheme, but cannot remember what car(s) or where I have seen them, at this time. Steve Bartlett Ron Dugas wrote: > > Hi All, > > In past and recent posts we have discussed the "Pool Service" sleepers > that were painted in other roads colors and owned by and lettered for > the PRR. This brings up a question: Did the opposite exist, that is, > cars that were painted in Pennsy colors but that were owned by and > lettered for the other roads? > > Thanks in advance, > > Ron. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] FW: Schyukill River Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:14:43 -0400 (EDT) > Rob, > Do you know anything about the PRR line that ran along the Schuykill > River. It ran along Norristown, PA. It is now a bike trail. I think it the > tracks were torn up in the early eighties. The Schuylkill Branch. At one time ran to Norristown, Pottstown, Reading, Pottsville, and 2 (?) places beyond where it connected with the Lehigh Valley, at least. Would have to check a map to give you any more detail. SEPTA (as a concept) killed the line at least in part, since there was no need for direct spitting-distance (right-of-way to right-of-way) competition for commuters with the Reading. I don't know when the outer portions were abandoned, whether that was PRR, PC, or CR. I remember the line as being an R6 line, along with the (immediately parallel) ex-Reading main to Norristown and the coal regions. At that time, SEPTA trains crossed the formerly beautiful, now heavily deteriorating and upon-the-expressway falling, Manayunk bridge, and terminating at Ivy Ridge IIRC. They now do NOT cross that bridge, which has some sort of chicken wire screwed into it to catch falling concrete; the trains terminate at Cynwyd ("Kinwid") station. I also recall that Pottstown to Pottsville RDC was axed in the early 80s, and already by then, the PRR branch was out. Several bridges on the Pennsy branch are out, in particular one over Pa. 61. Other bridges, some visible from US 422, concrete, are standing. What I believe to be the PRR bridges over the Schuylkill at Reading are still standing, visible down the embankment from US 422. A full set of employee timetables would help to elucidate this. BTW, disclaimer to what I wrote above: the PRR branch is abandoned _in general_. Portions of it may be (and I think are) in place, connected to the Reading side, to reach certain industries. (Of what heritage is the Artist Formerly Known as Blue Mountain & Reading, witht the PRR signal on the signal bridge at Shoemakerville? (Tangential question: does that signal actually _do_ anything, or is it the first and only example of a signal fixed at Clear?)) > I cant find any web sites that deal with when rail lines were abonden. Neither can I. :-) > There is also a reading line that was torn down along the perkiomen creek in > Montgomery County pa. Any info you have would be helpful. Thanx, Called the Perkiomen Branch, IIRC, and quite possibly Perkiomen Secondary Track and/or Perkiomen Industrial Track as it was scaled back to zero. > > Eric > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce > site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > -- Mark D. Bej, M.D. bejm@eeg.ccf.org Clinical Associate, Section of Epilepsy & Sleep Disorders Epilepsy Research Fellow, Section of Neurological Computing Department of Neurology Phone (216) 445-2565 Cleveland Clinic Foundation S-51 Operator (216) 444-2200 bpr 24095 9500 Euclid Ave. Fax (216) 445-6617 (public) Cleveland, Ohio 44195 U.S.A. Voice mail (216) 444-0119 (nonclinical only) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:53:11 -0400 From: DDembinski Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Colors Has anyone ever managed to match the PRR colors to the Pantone Marking System (PMS)? This is an extremely well-known color chart system used throughout the printing world. There are thousands of PMS colors, and there must be some matches to PRR colors. Dale Jerry wrote: > The PRR color drift cards available from the PRRT&HS are indeed 1950's > vintage. Only 13 of the 14 are still available...for $25 a set. Freight > Car Color is sold out. > > Another great source is the Tilp/Blardone book "Pennsylvania Railroad > Passenger Car Painting and Lettering" (or some such title) available from > the PRRT&HS. The hardback is sold out, but I purchased a softcover for > around $30 about three years ago. Besides containing a wealth of > information on PRR passenger cars, it contains large paint swatches at > the very end of the book. Don't know how well these colors will hold up > over time, but it's a real good start. > > BTW: Andy Miller had recommended Floquil's UP Armor Yellow as a > substitute for the PRR's Dulux Gold...I have found it to be very close > and more than acceptible. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS > Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. > Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! > The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce > site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Homesignal@aol.com Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:09:29 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] FW: Schyukill River In a message dated 4/12/99 3:28:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bejm@eeg.ccf.org writes: << Manayunk bridge, and terminating at Ivy Ridge IIRC. They now do NOT cross that bridge, which has some sort of chicken wire screwed into it to catch falling concrete; the trains terminate at Cynwyd ("Kinwid") station. >> SEPTA is in the process of rebuilding that pretty bridge. I'm not sure which phase they are in. There are about three or four in the reconstrution process. I get conflicting reports about the progress. I have heard they are planning to consolidate their operation a bit and use it to run Norristown trains into Center City Philadelphia instead of through the old RDG route through 16th Street Junction. I'll keep you posted if you like. ~CDR ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:12:02 -0400 From: vck@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: [PRR] FW: Schyukill River --On Monday, April 12, 1999, 3:14 PM -0400 "Mark Bej" wrote: > The Schuylkill Branch. > At one time ran to Norristown, Pottstown, Reading, Pottsville, and 2 (?) places > beyond where it connected with the Lehigh Valley, at least. Shehandoah Branch Ran from Pottsville to point near St. Clair, thence via trackage rights over Reading to Frackville (top end of Mahanoy Plane), thence via isolated PRR trackage into Shenandoah (freight depot) and cxn w/ Lehigh Valley (PRR passenger trains backed into Lehigh Valley passenger station in Shenandoah). In the valley of Mahanoy Creek, between Frackville and Shenandoah, another branch "branched off" to serve a colliery at/near Girardville. Vagel Keller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Colors Date: Mon, 12 Apr 99 18:41:36 -0400 From: Jerry On 4/12/99 4:53 PM, DDembinski (DDembinski@Centuryinter.net) wrote: >Has anyone ever managed to match the PRR colors to the Pantone Marking >System (PMS)? This >is an extremely well-known color chart system used throughout the printing >world. There >are thousands of PMS colors, and there must be some matches to PRR colors. I don't think anyone has, but I plan to try. I have color-matching capable scanning equipment, PhotoShop, and PMS-matching output. The really tough one will be DGLE...will the scanner recognize the very faint touch of green on an otherwise "black" sample? If it works, I may use my printer to print a "swatch poster" with all available colors on it, along with PMS numbers and RGB and CMYK breakdowns. Stay tuned! ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@dsop.com "Keystone Crossings" http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space available at http://www.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE question. Date: Mon, 12 Apr 99 16:01:07 -0800 From: David >There is only one DGLE Call me a novece, I am. What does DGLE stand for, maybe I missed the original thread? David Lind VAQ-133 two_edge@hotmail.com Oak Harbor, WA FPO AP 96601 Proverbs 22:6 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Homesignal@aol.com Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:38:42 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] FW: Schyukill River In a message dated 4/12/99 3:28:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bejm@eeg.ccf.org writes: << SEPTA (as a concept) killed the line at least in part, since there was no need for direct spitting-distance (right-of-way to right-of-way) competition for commuters with the Reading. I don't know when the outer portions were abandoned, whether that was PRR, PC, or CR. I remember the line as being an R6 line, along with the (immediately parallel) ex-Reading main to Norristown and the coal regions. >> I called a friend of mine who knows a little about the PRR Schuykill Division and the general idea is that passenger service past Manayunk died in the 1960's while under either PRR or PC control. I used to know the exact year but for the life of me can't recall it!!! I hear a fellow in one of the historical societies has quite a cache of photographs and history on the line and is preparing a book as little is out there. I'll keep you posted. I always wondered what kept the two Chestnut Hill lines going together. Perhaps the fact they don't really run parallel for a good part of their journey? I can still recall staring at the abandonded PRR Norristown station platform when riding into Norristown on the old Philadelphia and Western. It was a high-level platorm, island construction in the middle of two tracks, with a third stub-end pocket track on the Norristown end. This was 1979 to 1980. Once in a while I'd see a one or two car freight drill roll by, heading towards some industry west of Norristown. This was one of several segments that survived, connected to the RDG line, for local freight. Sometime after 1980 they leveled the old station platform and eventually build the now-active Norristown Transportation Center. I found some portions of the former PRR line still intact near Spring City, PA, (near Royersford), in the early 1980's but it looked very worn out and dying then. I recall seeing it listed as "Schuykill Industrial Track" on a map at work. A quick phone call to a friend of mine today told me the PRR sections are now completely abandoned except for the portion east of Manayunk and the section the BM&R has. I last recall seeing the lower portion of the Perkiomen Branch intact, though quite dead, in the latter part of 1979 to mid-1980. One weekend it was there, the next it was cleanly swept away. I'm talking the Oaks-Collegeville-Schwenksville vicinity. Sadly, nobody has started a website with the schedules of line abandonments that I know of. I rode the Pottsville RDG line in the last weeks of its life in 1981. RDC service out of Reading Terminal. Classic Reading!!! ~CDR ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:12:22 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pool Service Pax Equip? In a message dated 4/12/99 1:07:38 PM Central Daylight Time, rond@efn.org writes: << Did the opposite exist, that is, cars that were painted in Pennsy colors but that were owned by and lettered for the other roads? >> Yes, at least there were cars in tuscan lettered for the RF&P and N&W for use in through service. Maybe others, but I'll have to research further when I have time. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:11:38 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Colors I never thought I'd see "PMS" discused on the PRR list - I've got some new "O" scale purchases riding around in my trunk right now - waiting for a "safe" time to take them into the house.............. Dick Ross ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:58:12 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Color Drift Cards In a message dated 4/12/99 8:54:12 AM Central Daylight Time, smithbf@mail.auburn.edu writes: << I believe the current PRRT&HS set is for the 50's and may not be precise representations of earlier shades of the same color. >> True, but I suspect the primary difference is in the "freight car color" which they are out of, anyway. I don't know how much change there was in DGLE or Tuscan red over the years. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE question. Date: Mon, 12 Apr 99 20:02:20 -0400 From: Jerry On 4/12/99 8:01 PM, David (lindfam@galaxynet.com) wrote: >>There is only one DGLE > > >Call me a novece, I am. What does DGLE stand for, maybe I missed the >original thread? Aaaaahhhhhh...a "newbie" to pick on! Just kidding. This is a regular subject among new subscribers to the list every few months. Despite the marketing efforts of Life Like, Bachmann, and numerous other model railroad manufacturers, the PRR had no color "Brunswick Green". DGLE is our abbreviation for "Dark Green Locomotive Enamel" which was the color of the PRR's freight diesels and, until 1952, passenger diesels as well. The color is nearly black, but in the right light shows a tinge of green. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@dsop.com "Keystone Crossings" http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space available at http://www.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:54:14 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE question. In a message dated 4/12/99 8:53:37 AM Central Daylight Time, smithbf@mail.auburn.edu writes: << Awwww Rich, you had me agreeing there, and then you had to say that last line! If you look at your PRR passenger car painting diagrams, "olive" was the color of all PRR passenger car trucks and underbody equipment such as airconditioning airtanks generators etc. up unitl the 50's! >> The PRRT&HS painting and lettering guide indicates the official color starting in 1946 was black; not that olive didn't probably last for a while until repainting came up. BTW, I have bought some of the Bachmann cars with that underbody because it looks under normal layout conditions like weathered black,so keeps me happy while the Tuscan red is more satisfactory than their later-era cars. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] "Garrett Rea" : Fw: South From: Fred G Rea Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:19:20 EDT I am fowarding his to the PRR-Talk at the suggestion of my son, Garrett Rea. He thought some of the PRR fans might enjoy the Southwind pAGE. Fred rea --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: "Garrett Rea" To: "Fred Gehret Rea" Subject: Fw: South Wind Page > >>I have a friend who is constructing a page at: >>http://members.aol.com/southwind6/sw1.html >> >>He is going to have a Penn Central section, as well as sections on the >>L&N, SCL and Pennsy. He's just got started, but he already has a picture >>of PC E units in Louisville. >> >>In an unrelated note, there is now a Tennessee Central list at: >>http://tennesseecentral.listbot.com >>This is a great road for Alco diesel fans. >> >>Bryan Turner ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:09:04 -0400 From: Newbeach Subject: Re: [PRR] FW: Schyukill River Robert Schoenberg wrote: > > Hi all, > > I received this inquiry on my web site. Can anyone help Eric out? Please > make sure you cc Eric on any replies! -- Rob http://prr.railfan.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: LEECUSHING@aol.com [mailto:LEECUSHING@aol.com] > Sent: Friday, April 09, 1999 7:55 PM > To: robs@railfan.net > Subject: Schyukill River > > Rob, > Do you know anything about the PRR line that ran along the Schuykill > River. > I cant find any web sites that deal with when rail lines were abonden. > There is also a reading line that was torn down along the perkiomen creek in > Montgomery County pa. Any info you have would be helpful. Thanx, > > Eric > You might try http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/rails/ Under the rail data heading there is some information county by county. You have to click on the routes shown on the county map and it will provide a bit of info. Hope this helps ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:19:40 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE question. In a message dated 4/12/99 7:26:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lindfam@galaxynet.com writes: > What does DGLE stand for Dark Green Locomotive Enamel the official PRR name for locomotive paint. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE question. Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:34:36 -0400 (EDT) > The color is nearly black, but in the right light shows a tinge of green. The "right light" is, of course, sunlight. :-) -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:13:22 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Colors In a message dated 4/12/99 5:24:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DDembinski@Centuryinter.net writes: > Has anyone ever managed to match the PRR colors to the Pantone Marking System > (PMS)? This > is an extremely well-known color chart system used throughout the printing > world. There > are thousands of PMS colors, and there must be some matches to PRR colors. > The PRR used the Bowles Color Drift Control System, Bowles Printing Corporation, 75 Third St., San Francisco, CA. That was there address in 1954. If they exist they may be able to give you the equivalent PMS color codes. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PRRSignals" Subject: [PRR] ***Phinally some philly reports !!!*** Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:38:05 -0400 ***Great to have CDR back active on list !!! We now have some up-to-date Philly Phacts and area information available online !!!! THX !!! Some Schuylkill notes: ETT #5 of 4/27/58 still cards about 1/3 = 3 trains thru to Norristown and Haws Ave Weekdays, and both Sat trains went "all the way" ( wwd service..). Skipping back a dozen years to 1946, ETT #6 shows 2 trains each way each day between Norristown and Reading, with only one RT going into philly on sunday only. I defer to our resident Wilkes-barre div historian, Dick Makse for further details. Bill********* ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PRRSignals" Subject: [PRR] ***olive underframe items ???** Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:21:22 -0400 ***You mean my olive green underframe Aristo "toy" G scale heavyweight PRR passenger cars might be, ahem, accurate ???? I won't believe it until I hear it from Gary M.... Now, He Knows Green !!!... bill* ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] DGLE & Strasburg Date: Mon, 12 Apr 99 22:03:42 -0800 From: David >Despite the marketing efforts of Life Like, Bachmann, and numerous other >model railroad manufacturers, the PRR had no color "Brunswick Green". >DGLE is our abbreviation for "Dark Green Locomotive Enamel" which was the >color of the PRR's freight diesels and, until 1952, passenger diesels as >well. > >The color is nearly black, but in the right light shows a tinge of green. That explains what was going on with my eyes when I was at The PRR Museum in Strasburg back in '96. The 'new' addition was complete and one of their two GG-1s (not "Old Rivets") looked black but something in my head kept saying green and I finally decided it was the light. David Lind VAQ-133 two_edge@hotmail.com Oak Harbor, WA FPO AP 96601 Proverbs 22:6 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:58:03 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Lines West Fan Fest was a big success! Greetings to Jerry and the list! Let me echo Pat's remarks and say that although the event was a modest one, Tom Vondruska deserves several G27 gondolas full of credit for conceiving the idea and pursuing it to completion despite facing a number of roadblocks and unforeseen circumstances. Such as a tornado that visited that corner of Ohio just days before. Already people are talking about next year. Although I'm the kind of PRR enthusiast whose vision starts to blur when he sees fewer than four mainline tracks, I thoroughly enjoyed hearing about and visiting many of the places that had previously been only lines on a map to me. Folks came from Chicago, Louisville, Cincinnati, Canton, Indianapolis, Cleveland, Grand Rapids (former PRRT&HS President Jim Winslow), and Ontario (the Miracle guys, Mike and Pat). Al Buchan (NJ) and I (Harrisburg) represented the remote, isolated reaches of Lines East. It was delightful to meet in the reconstructed Xenia tower/station and see where several PRR lines intersected with a B&O crossing thrown into the middle of it all. Also curious to see that where I rode the National Limited through town is now grass and asphalt, and the fastest thing on those former PRR alignments is neither a K4 nor an SDP40F but a Cannondale. Thanks again to Tom and his son Kevin for their enthusiasm and vision. Dan Cupper ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Homesignal@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:35:04 EDT Subject: [PRR] Bustleton In a message dated 4/13/99, 1:07:08 AM, rfm@twinney.com writes: <> Unfortunately, no. My father passed away, as you know, and assisting with his affairs has taken up most of my time. No time for research trips. I'll dust it off in due time, however! Chris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 06:10:36 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] FW: Schyukill River In a message dated 99-04-12 18:53:54 EDT, Homesignal@aol.com writes: I always wondered what kept the two Chestnut Hill lines going together. Perhaps the fact they don't really run parallel for a good part of their journey? >> < Subject: Re: [PRR] Pool Service Pax Equip? Hi Stephen, All, Stephen Bartlett wrote: > > Ron, > The New Haven owned at least one Pullman car painted for PRR: > "Victoria Tower," 8 Section 1 Drawing Room - 3 Compartment, was Tuscan > Red with postwar gold striping - single stripe above the windows and a > double stripe below the windows. Lettering included the name, "NEW > HAVEN" at the letterboard center, and small "PULLMAN" next to the > vestibule side doors. I cannot say whether it was metallic or imitation > gold. > The NH purchased 3 cars of this type from Pullman in 1948. > This information is from NHRTHA Data Sheet 5.730. > > I am sure I have seen at least one more NH car in this scheme, but > cannot remember what car(s) or where I have seen them, at this time. > > Steve Bartlett Interesting. So far most of the cars referenced seem to be East Coast North/South trains. I should have been a bit more specific. I am looking for pool service cars that would have traveled around The Curve. Where did these NH cars go? Did any of the other equip mentioned (N&W, RF&P, L&N) travel The Curve? An off list post refers to some West Coast cars off the SP and UP that were painted to match Pennsy schemes. To quote: "Heavyweight 10-3 "Villa's" in PRR livery ran through to San Francisco on UP & SP in the late 40's, and from 1940 to after the war the entire Southwind ran from Chicago to Miami in PRR Fleet of Modernism livery." Were these "Villa" cars owned by UP or SP? Any pics anywhere? Does Union Station make carsides for these cars in N-Scale? I'm off to check their site for any info. Was there no counterpart to the "Silver Rapids" that was owned by the Zephyr's owners? N-Scale Modelers Note: I've compared pics of the new ConCor Budd cars, which include a "Silver Rapids", and, to those of you who may be contemplating this car, it's not even close. The windows appear to be all wrong and the CC doesn't even appear to have skirting while the proto had full length skirting. Union Station is the way to go for this car if proto fidelity is your thing. To those that have answered so far, and any others: Can you provide any routing info for the referenced pool arrangements? Someone posted about a section in one of Arthur Dubins books on Pennsy pool arrangements. His brother is a customer of mine and I'll see if he maybe has copies of Arthur's books that I could get a look at. Gotta run to work so have a great day and talk to you later, Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Miracle Castings Inc." Subject: [PRR] Whaddayathink Folks - A 4-Axle Shark????? Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:28:19 -0400 Hi All! This is just a hypothetical question at this point, but we have been asked by a number of people over the last 6 months whether or not we would be making the DR-4-4-15 4-axle freight Shark or not. This is the earlier 4-axle Shark that was run by B&O and Pennsy. The Model Power Shark is the later RF-16. The main differences are in the frame (cast in the case of the early Shark, fabricated (and much thicker) on the later ones), the side grills (louvers on the early, screens on the late), fuel filler location, and other minor details. So, everybody, WHADDAYATHINK???? Pat ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Whaddayathink Folks - A 4-Axle Shark????? Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:23:42 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell On 13 Apr, "Miracle Castings Inc." wrote: > Hi All! This is just a hypothetical question at this point, but we have > been asked by a number of people over the last 6 months whether or not we > would be making the DR-4-4-15 4-axle freight Shark or not. You might ask George Johnsen over at deLuxe Innovations about how well his N Scale freight shark shell has been selling; it fits over a LL FA (and other Alco B-B) mechanism. I *think* that it's the RF-16, and of course it's undec and N Scale, but you may be able to gauge interest that way. I have two, and the mechanisms, and the decals (PRR DLGE five-stripe!) for them, all waiting for my toddler to return some of the round tuits he's borrowed. Good luck! Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:11:45 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] Pool Service Pax Equip? Ron Dugas wrote: > ....... > Where did these NH cars go? ..... > Ron & all: My 1951 NH Consist Book Xerox copy says that Bok Tower, NH #730, and Breslin Tower, NH #731,were assigned to Nos. 172-173, The Federal. These two cars ran Washington, DC, to Springfield, Mass, operating between New Haven and Springfield on Nos. 412 Monday-Saturday and No. 52 on Sunday. Westbound they operated in No. 97 to New Haven. These were unnamed trains at that time. Victoria Tower, NH # 732, was assigned to 186-187, The Quaker, Philadelphia to Boston. The late Jim Bradley had Breslin Tower on his property in Stonington, Connecticut. It was later moved, with most of the rest of the connection, to The Valley Railroad, and may have since been moved again. Steve Bartlett > Stephen Bartlett wrote: > > The New Haven owned at least one Pullman car painted for PRR: > "Victoria Tower," 8 Section 1 Drawing Room - 3 Compartment, ........ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:54:24 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] ***olive underframe items ???** >***You mean my olive green underframe Aristo "toy" G scale heavyweight PRR >passenger cars might be, ahem, accurate ???? Well, actually, to pick a nit, no! The correct underframe color was always black, however, up until around early 1945, the trucks, and underbody equipment such as battery boxes and air tanks were olive green. The underframe, brake gear and generator were black. There was a very short period in mid '44 when the color Tuscan was substituted for olive. Ahhhhh the color wars...so good to back in the saddle Bruce The Honorary Raymond Loewy Professor of Painting and Lettering (so dubbed by our erstwhile listmeister) Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:33:21 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/13/99 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Colors From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:13:22 EDT In a message dated 4/12/99 5:24:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DDembinski@Centuryinter.net writes: > Has anyone ever managed to match the PRR colors to the Pantone Marking System > (PMS)? This > is an extremely well-known color chart system used throughout the printing > world. There > are thousands of PMS colors, and there must be some matches to PRR colors. > The PRR used the Bowles Color Drift Control System, Bowles Printing Corporation, 75 Third St., San Francisco, CA. That was there address in 1954. If they exist they may be able to give you the equivalent PMS color codes. Rich Orr A close friend of mine has the Bowles Color drift cards for the PRR and if anybody is interested I can do some research on what they list. Randy ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:35:42 +0000 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Colors From: "Eugene Nowlan" a) When the Color Drift Cards were prepared, were the colors matched for the Pantone Marking System? b) Jerry, when you get through with computer matching the PRR colors, will you give the rest of the community the values for our computer color wheel so we each can have the correct colors? c) Also, with your computer/scanner/PhotoShop capabilities will you be able to paint a swatch of paper or brass, scan the item, and computer generate how good the match is? Is the computer �eye� more accurate than the human eye? Gene Nowlan ---------- >From: Jerry >Cc: "PRR-Talk" >Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Colors >Date: Mon, Apr 12, 1999, 10:41 PM > > On 4/12/99 4:53 PM, DDembinski (DDembinski@Centuryinter.net) wrote: > >>Has anyone ever managed to match the PRR colors to the Pantone Marking >>System (PMS)? This >>is an extremely well-known color chart system used throughout the printing >>world. There >>are thousands of PMS colors, and there must be some matches to PRR colors. > > I don't think anyone has, but I plan to try. I have color-matching > capable scanning equipment, PhotoShop, and PMS-matching output. The > really tough one will be DGLE...will the scanner recognize the very faint > touch of green on an otherwise "black" sample? > > If it works, I may use my printer to print a "swatch poster" with all > available colors on it, along with PMS numbers and RGB and CMYK > breakdowns. Stay tuned! > > ----------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton jerry@dsop.com > "Keystone Crossings" http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > Web space available at http://www.pennsyrr.com > ----------------------------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce > site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:59:56 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Whaddayathink Folks - A 4-Axle Shark????? Regarding the 4 axle Shark request and Jerry's ideas. I think the new ER Sharks will dilute the demand for any freight sharks irregardless of the BF-15/BF-16 differences. One thing to consider is a reliable and available powertrain. To be correct you can't use Athearn/ Life-Like AAR trucks as the wheelbase is too short and the only ones out there that are correct are the old Model Power trucks but they already come with a Shark body attached. Most people will probably use the shorter wheelbase trucks and not worry about it. Now the Centipedes ,Having owned both HO and O scale sets before Most people will probably NOT be able to run them on their layouts unless they have a minimum radius of 36''. The older Hallmarks would go around 26 in a pinch but with no side ladders and a tooo long drawbar between units to keeep them from hitting. The other and main problem with the Centipedes is the trucks ,there is no commercially available truck with a 4 axle arrangement that will work and using a 3 axle truck with a dummy inside axle will give you problems trying to fit a motor and universals between the gear towers, Been there done that !!! If you want Centipedes buy some brass ones. The P-5's have the same problem with the drive nothing available .Would be great to see it done but I don't think the demand would justify the investment. MP-54's a market exists here !! Since the P-54/MP-54 use the same shell one body can serve two uses a MU unit and the regular passenger coach.. Pantagraphs are available the Athearn/Life-Like trucks are the correct wheelbase the only problem is sideframes and which version to do. This to me has the greatest business potential. E-44/E-33 since Stewart has released the Alco C-628 which has the correct wheelbase trucks this is a doable project. Sideframes with the larger GE equalizers would be nice. The E-33 should be included as the wheelbase and trucks are the same as the E-44 and the RR market is VGN/NW/NH/PC/CR as all owned them. With the recent Athearn announcement of a USRA 2-8-2 and what seems to be a resurgence of steam how about some PRR tender shells and chassis with minimal detail ( Cary already makes all the detail parts needed no nbeed to reinvent the wheel here ) That will utilize the always available Bowser tender trucks and Cary detail parts. Think of this as a steam version of what Rail Power has done. Some of the more COMMON PRR tenders not available from Bowser would fit the bill. Enough rambling back to working on the layout. Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Whaddayathink Folks - A 4-Axle Shark????? Date: Tue, 13 Apr 99 14:00:32 -0400 From: Jerry On 4/13/99 12:28 PM, Miracle Castings Inc. (miracle-castings@on.aibn.com) wrote: >Hi All! This is just a hypothetical question at this point, but we have >been asked by a number of people over the last 6 months whether or not we >would be making the DR-4-4-15 4-axle freight Shark or not. This is the >earlier 4-axle Shark that was run by B&O and Pennsy. The Model Power Shark >is the later RF-16. The main differences are in the frame (cast in the case >of the early Shark, fabricated (and much thicker) on the later ones), the >side grills (louvers on the early, screens on the late), fuel filler >location, and other minor details. So, everybody, WHADDAYATHINK???? Pat: I have no problem selling your kits...they move much faster than I can get them...so sure! However, I'd like to pitch in a few thoughts: 1. The "majority" of PRR modelers will probably be satisfied with the available ER Imports, Model Power, etc., RF-16's that are available. Granted, they are lower in detail, but they are also lower in cost (until all MC costs are considered). You will attract those willing to spend a few extra bucks on a higher detail model if it's their first set...AND, you will definitely attract those few PRR modelers who want to have one of everything (myself included). 2. PRR modelers are screaming for many other locos not currently offered...and the RF-16 is not high on the list (remember the survey we did in December?). Out of 57 respondents, the most requested diesel loco was the Erie-builts (11), which you are doing now. A very close second is the Baldwin BP60 Centipedes (9), followed by C-Liners (7), which Life Like Canada is supposedly considering. There were zero votes for RF-16's!!! While steamers may be out of the realm of your capabilities, what about electrics? There is a high demand for MP54's (10), the family of P5's (9 P5 box, 6 P5a, 3 P5 mods), and finally the E44's (7). I think my points illustrate that the project, though it would have some success, might be better suited to "back burner" status to allow moving another project to the forefront. Bottom line: Whoever gets the Centipede's out will do well in the PRR camp. The only choice is brass so the market is wide open. Not even any discontinued/used resin/plastic units out there! The P5 family might be the best opportunity, however, though you'd need to create three shells, you'd likely only have to create the chassis kit once. IHC markets pantographs, so there's that part.... ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Colors Date: Tue, 13 Apr 99 14:53:54 -0400 From: Jerry On 4/13/99 9:35 AM, Eugene Nowlan (ENowlan@stny.rr.com) wrote: >a) When the Color Drift Cards were prepared, were the colors matched for the >Pantone Marking System? No. > >b) Jerry, when you get through with computer matching the PRR colors, will >you give the rest of the community the values for our computer color wheel >so we each can have the correct colors? Yes. > >c) Also, with your computer/scanner/PhotoShop capabilities will you be able >to paint a swatch of paper or brass, scan the item, and computer generate >how good the match is? Depends on the surface. It needs to be flat. Could make a comparison. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Whaddayathink Folks - A 4-Axle Shark????? Date: Tue, 13 Apr 99 17:04:36 -0400 From: Jerry On 4/13/99 2:59 PM, Ken McCorry (KEMACPRR@aol.com) wrote: >The other and main problem with the Centipedes is the >trucks ,there is no commercially available truck with a 4 axle arrangement >that will work a Ever look at a DD40 truck? ;-) ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@dsop.com "Keystone Crossings" http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space available at http://www.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:58:01 EDT Subject: [PRR] Calendar rights A couple of weeks ago there was a discussion regarding calendar copywrites and Pennsy Power was mentioned. I just looked at that section published in 1962 and Stauffer clearly thanks the PRR for permission to reproduce them. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:55:49 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Whaddayathink Folks - A 4-Axle Shark????? Funny this should come up now. I was just looking through the diesel spotters guide the other day. What is needed is an RF-15 mechanism that could utilize either the shark body or the babyface body that CNJ and some others had. I kind of tend to think that the babyface body would outsell the shark body but that is a hunch not fact. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:48:32 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Whaddayathink Folks - A 4-Axle Shark????? Hi Pat: If you make the early freight shark I will take 4 A units and 2 B units. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:21:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Whaddayathink Folks - A 4-Axle Shark????? On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 KEMACPRR@aol.com wrote: > Regarding the 4 axle Shark request and Jerry's ideas. I think the new ER > Sharks will dilute the demand for any freight sharks irregardless of the > BF-15/BF-16 differences. One thing to consider is a reliable and available > powertrain. To be correct you can't use Athearn/ Life-Like AAR trucks as the > wheelbase is too short and the only ones out there that are correct are the > old Model Power trucks but they already come with a Shark body attached. Most > people will probably use the shorter wheelbase trucks and not worry about it. How old? The MP sharks I have seem to have a compromise truck which was also used on the roco FA1.5:-) -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:54:11 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] I1sa >ok I need some information on I1sa specifically number of the ones that had >double pumps and tenders off of T-1's (I think the tender was off a T1 anyway >since it is welded, I could be mistaken) I have the info here somewhere but I >figure someone on the list will be able to answer my questions quicker. >Thanks Brian C Brian, The tenders from the T-1s only became avaialble in the late 50's. These tenders were class 180P84, and I'm not sure that they were ever used with I1sa locos. I1s did get the 180F84 tenders from the Q2 when they were retired. Other welded long distance tenders were available before that (eg 250p75). Does the tender you are talking about have 6 or 8 wheel trucks? For a quick review of I1 tenders, I have a test web page up at: http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRR/I1tenders.html and a form 109K (1952) Classification of tenmders at http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRR/PRRtenders.html Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:09:49 EDT Subject: Re: [pcl] Re: [PRR] Pool Service Pax Equip? In a message dated 4/13/99 12:44:25 PM Central Daylight Time, klerman@rand.org writes: << Here is a "chapter" in one of the classic passenger books (More Classic Trains maybe) called When in is a Pensy car not a pensy car (or something like that). >> Three Rivers cars in tuscan lettered L&N, three County cars in tuscan lettered N&W, and two King cars in tuscan lettered RF&P are listed in that book. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Neil Campbell" Subject: Re: [PRR] Whaddayathink Folks - A 4-Axle Shark????? Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:36:47 -0400 Pat Go for it This is a much overlooked unit. Neil -----Original Message----- From: Miracle Castings Inc. To: PRR Talk Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 1:47 PM Subject: [PRR] Whaddayathink Folks - A 4-Axle Shark????? >Hi All! This is just a hypothetical question at this point, but we have >been asked by a number of people over the last 6 months whether or not we >would be making the DR-4-4-15 4-axle freight Shark or not. This is the >earlier 4-axle Shark that was run by B&O and Pennsy. The Model Power Shark >is the later RF-16. The main differences are in the frame (cast in the case >of the early Shark, fabricated (and much thicker) on the later ones), the >side grills (louvers on the early, screens on the late), fuel filler >location, and other minor details. So, everybody, WHADDAYATHINK???? > >Pat > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce >site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Whaddayathink Folks - A 4-Axle Shark????? Date: Tue, 13 Apr 99 20:25:16 -0400 From: Jerry On 4/13/99 4:48 PM, SUVCWORR@aol.com (SUVCWORR@aol.com) wrote: >If you make the early freight shark I will take 4 A units and 2 B units. Okay...make 'em, Pat...Rich, call me! ;-) ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@dsop.com "Keystone Crossings" http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space available at http://www.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AJSNGS@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:19:16 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR and RF&P Items Hello, I have the following items for sale on Ebay. PRR Broadway Pattern Teaspoon Ebay # 89928883 PRR Raised Keystone Oyster Fork MINT Ebay #89976226 PRR Raised Keystone Fruit Knife RARE Ebay #89979422 Strip of five unisued RF&P passes 1937-38 Ebay #89842318 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Calendar rights Date: Tue, 13 Apr 99 20:24:32 -0400 From: Jerry On 4/13/99 3:58 PM, NDBPRR@aol.com (NDBPRR@aol.com) wrote: >A couple of weeks ago there was a discussion regarding calendar copywrites >and Pennsy Power was mentioned. I just looked at that section published in >1962 and Stauffer clearly thanks the PRR for permission to reproduce them. Two summary points: 1) The company that owned the copyright at the time was still in business. The PRR owned the copyright. 2) Copyrights expire if not renewed. The PRR "did not" renew the copyright on its keystone logo...we can't know easily for sure, but there's little chance they renewed the artwork when they didn't protect their logo. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@dsop.com "Keystone Crossings" http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space available at http://www.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:55:26 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Whaddayathink Folks - A 4-Axle Shark????? The original Model Power units both used the same mechanism/truck. It was designed as a Baldwin first the they made the infamous FA-1/2 shell to fit the Shark chassis. I have about a dozen MP Sharks stored servicable in Northunmberland at present all with Holland can motors and the original drives. They are good runners. It's a shame that MP screwed up the FA shell as the nose is probably a better representation than all other that have been done. Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:53:04 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Whaddayathink Folks - A 4-Axle Shark????? In a message dated 4/13/99 11:13:35 AM Mountain Daylight Time, miracle-castings@on.aibn.com writes: << Hi All! This is just a hypothetical question at this point, but we have been asked by a number of people over the last 6 months whether or not we would be making the DR-4-4-15 4-axle freight Shark or not. This is the earlier 4-axle Shark that was run by B&O and Pennsy. The Model Power Shark is the later RF-16. The main differences are in the frame (cast in the case of the early Shark, fabricated (and much thicker) on the later ones), the side grills (louvers on the early, screens on the late), fuel filler location, and other minor details. So, everybody, WHADDAYATHINK???? >> The DR-4-4-15 was also shorter then the RF16 by 3-1/2 inches. I don't know if this anything to worry about, with regards to producing a model, but I thought I would mention it. As to whether I think you should do it. ABSOLUTELY! I think a BF-15 would be great. Stuart Thayer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:48:37 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Calendar rights It is [possible that all PRR copyrights have expired. In 1968. I recently checked the status of some material published in 1913 and was told by an archivist that everything copyrighted in 1917 or earlier is now in the public domain. I'm a bit hazy but since 82 is divisible only by 2, 4, 21 and 42. it seems that ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 01:58:31 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Calendar rights LINESWEST@aol.com wrote: > > It is [possible that all PRR copyrights have expired. In > 1968. I recently checked the status of some material published in 1913 and > was told by an archivist that everything copyrighted in 1917 or earlier is > now in the public domain. I'm a bit hazy but since 82 is divisible only by 2, > 4, 21 and 42. it seems that > Re: our earlier thread of March 29-31: The pre-1978 federal copyright law provided for an initial term of 26 years, renewable for a second term of 26 years, for a total of 52 years. Nobody knows for sure whether PRR bothered to renew (See Jerry's previous note of today, which summarizes this point), but the answer is probably not. Dan Cupper ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:31:47 -0500 From: George Pierson Subject: [PRR] Allegheny Valley RR Hi, all, I visited Foxburg, PA on a recent trip to the Keystone state and while my true objective was to check out the remains of the old Pittsbrugh & Western (including a bridge over the Allegheny River with rr on top and one-lane road below), this was also PRR territory. The Allegheny Valley line ran north from Pgh on the east bank of the river. From the look of things at Foxburg, it's been some years since rails were pulled up, although a heavy steel bridge could still be seen south of town. My question is when the PRR tracks were taken up. The P&W trackage (later B&O) was apparently taken up in the late 60's - hardly surprising when you consider that they had to climb out of Foxburg using two switchbacks on 2.7% grades! Also, does anyone have a good map of Foxburg, such as a Valuation track map? Again, I'd really like to have a map of the ex-P&W track (it was taken over by the B&O) but the PRR map would also be helpful -- George Pierson Dept. of Philosophy (george.pierson@trnty.edu) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ted.andrews@woolpert.com Date: Wed, 14 Apr 99 08:36:46 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Whaddayathink Folks - A 4-Axle Shark????? Pat: I think that you should at least come out with the body shell so that it can fit on top of the Model Power chassis. The Model Power shell no only lacks detail but (in my personal opinion) did not get the shark nose right. I think that MP nose is too fat and the windows are wrong. But at any rate, I think that Miracle Castings did a fantastic job on the BP-20. Ditto on the Erie Build (from what I have seen). I think that you can do a great job in producing an accurate shark. After all, the MP shark came out in the early '70's -- maybe it is time for a new shell! I think that the existing MP chassis and drive can be kept as a base for now. It is still available in retail and especially in train shows. It might be more economical to produce just the shell. I have always suspected the Lifelike Proto 2000 will come out with the shark. But given the few number of RR's (PRR, NYC, B&O, etc.) that had them, I doubt it. Pat, if you and Miracle Castings came out with a shell for the 4-axle shark, put me down for 2 A-B-A sets. Ted Andrews Carmel Indiana ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: [PRR] Whaddayathink Folks - A 4-Axle Shark????? Author: "Miracle Castings Inc." at Internet Date: 4/13/99 1:40 PM Hi All! This is just a hypothetical question at this point, but we have been asked by a number of people over the last 6 months whether or not we would be making the DR-4-4-15 4-axle freight Shark or not. This is the earlier 4-axle Shark that was run by B&O and Pennsy. The Model Power Shark is the later RF-16. The main differences are in the frame (cast in the case of the early Shark, fabricated (and much thicker) on the later ones), the side grills (louvers on the early, screens on the late), fuel filler location, and other minor details. So, everybody, WHADDAYATHINK???? Pat ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] PRR N Scale Needs Assessment Survey Date: Wed, 14 Apr 99 13:55:53 -0400 From: Jerry Looks like the time has come, so here goes...the first ever "PRR-Talk" N Scale Needs Assessment Survey! For N scale modelers only, please name the top five models you would like to see produced in each of the following categories. Please include the PRR class of the product as well as your long-term need in quantity. You may also indicate if a shell/side is acceptable. Please send the results directly to me...not to the list!!! I will summarize next week and e-mail the results to the leading N scale manufacturers as well as the smaller resin manufacturers. Thanks. Remember, up to five in each category... STEAM LOCOMOTIVE & TENDERS DIESEL LOCOMOTIVE ELECTRIC LOCOMOTIVE FREIGHT ROLLING STOCK & NON-REVENUE EQUIPMENT PASSENGER ROLLINGS STOCK STRUCTURES OTHER ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:43:14 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Change of e-mail address From: Jeremy C Helms Hello all, Just to let you know that I have changed my e-mail address to jeremyhelms@juno.com from locoshop@juno.com, actually these are 2 different addresses that I had but I am deleting the locoshop account in about a week or so. Thanks. Jeremy Helms ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:40:52 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] N scale from MC From: Jeremy C Helms I would have to agree with a desperate need for good hoppers. I would look at common ones that would be good for just about any era. That being said I would say that the H21s are desperately needed. Time frame would be anything from the 1920s (?) to the 1970s (?). If these years are true it would be the best pick overall due to sheer numbers and years in service in some form. These would also not just sell to Pennsy fans but also surrounding roads also. I have a couple of pictures of H21s in circle keystone out in Wyoming. Just my .02 cents. Jeremy Helms On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:39:06 -0800 Ron Dugas writes: >Hi All, > >With bated breath I await Miracle's announcement of plans for their >first N-Scale release. I'll even make it easier, how about a GL, or >most >common sub-class, hopper shell? Or maybe an H21 "sawtooth" hopper? If >we >had to pick, which hopper class would make the most sense in N-Scale >as >a first effort? I think hoppers would be long-term sellers, think how >many you'd need. Personally, a couple hundred, over time, unless they >end up costing what Westerfield's cost. > >On the other hand we could also use some Pennsy-proto tenders, maybe >even more so than the HOers. > >Sorry, had to ask. Come on N-Scalers. Let them know what we want or >they'll think we're not interested. I believe that Pat did tell me a >while ago that N-Scale was in their future. Don't get me wrong, I do >understand their need to address the larger market in HO first, as >sound >business practice, but that doesn't stop me from hoping (and, since >they >asked...). > >Side trivia note: >Jerry, you might get a chuckle out of this but I have a couple of the >old RivaRossi 8-coupled steamer mechanisms that I keep thinking of for >a >mechanism for a Centipede. They have very small drivers; take off the >drive rods, fill in the spokes with plastic putty or? and link them >with >a drawbar. Haven't figured out, yet, where to get truck sideframes. I >need to dig mine out one of these days and see how close the drivers' >diameter is to the 42" prototype drivers. Also need to compare >wheelbase >specs. Main drawback would be sacrificing four steamers for one BP60. >The DD40 mechanism is also available in N-Scale, though only from >Bachmann, and I'll look at that, also. Possibly the trucks are >available >separately as a repair part from them? > >Thanks, > >Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:39:06 -0800 From: Ron Dugas Subject: Re: [PRR] Whaddayathink Folks - A 4-Axle Shark????? Hi All, With bated breath I await Miracle's announcement of plans for their first N-Scale release. I'll even make it easier, how about a GL, or most common sub-class, hopper shell? Or maybe an H21 "sawtooth" hopper? If we had to pick, which hopper class would make the most sense in N-Scale as a first effort? I think hoppers would be long-term sellers, think how many you'd need. Personally, a couple hundred, over time, unless they end up costing what Westerfield's cost. On the other hand we could also use some Pennsy-proto tenders, maybe even more so than the HOers. Sorry, had to ask. Come on N-Scalers. Let them know what we want or they'll think we're not interested. I believe that Pat did tell me a while ago that N-Scale was in their future. Don't get me wrong, I do understand their need to address the larger market in HO first, as sound business practice, but that doesn't stop me from hoping (and, since they asked...). Side trivia note: Jerry, you might get a chuckle out of this but I have a couple of the old RivaRossi 8-coupled steamer mechanisms that I keep thinking of for a mechanism for a Centipede. They have very small drivers; take off the drive rods, fill in the spokes with plastic putty or? and link them with a drawbar. Haven't figured out, yet, where to get truck sideframes. I need to dig mine out one of these days and see how close the drivers' diameter is to the 42" prototype drivers. Also need to compare wheelbase specs. Main drawback would be sacrificing four steamers for one BP60. The DD40 mechanism is also available in N-Scale, though only from Bachmann, and I'll look at that, also. Possibly the trucks are available separately as a repair part from them? Thanks, Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:50:22 -0800 From: Ron Dugas Subject: [PRR] Rails Northeast Question. Hi All, I'm making arrangements to purchase some Rails NE mags and need some help in determining which issue would have what I need. Could those of you with RNE collections advise me as to which issues contain articles covering the stretch from East Altoona to west of Johnstown, and the branches off that stretch, and detail which issues contain which articles? I've already checked Jerry's site and that helped a bit but there is not enough coverage there yet and with his workload it might be a while before he is able to get all the info up. Thanks in advance, Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:34:53 -0400 (EDT) From: bobr@tridelta.com (Bob Rothrock) Subject: Re: [PRR] Allegheny Valley RR Hi George: I was in Foxburg in August 1975 and the rails (ex-PRR, which PC still used then, as well as ex-P&W, which had not been used for quite a while by the B&O) were in place at that time. Also, the old B&O depots at Foxburg and Parker's Landing were still there. On a visit to East Brady in 1985, I saw that Conrail had been using the the southern extremity of the ex-PRR line through Foxburg, Emlenton, et. al. (which had been known as the Oil City Secondary), for car storage (86-ft. Hi-Cubes), and just recently read that they sold the River Division and 4 miles of the Low Grade to the Allegheny Valley Land Trust in 1992. So evidently, somewhere in that 6-year interval is when things got pulled up. FYI, there's a great photo (by the late Richard J. Cook) from about 1953 of the Foxburg bridge with a B&O local going across behind one of the ex-B&S consolidations in Staufer's "B&O Power", if you haven't already seen it. Another good one of that same bridge (from much earlier) is in "A Locomotive Engineer's Album", by George Abdill. I have some familial ties to that area in that my Grandad was a clerk (and later yardmaster) on the Pennsy at Philipston, PA (below East Brady) from 1906-1930, when he got transferred to Oil City, and finally Erie, as yardmaster at OD, where he retired in '45. I'll need to plunder the archive to see if I have any maps that would be of help to you, and will get back in touch following the search. Bob Rothrock At 09:31 AM 4/14/99 -0500, George.Pierson@trnty.edu wrote: > >My question is when the PRR tracks were taken up. The P&W trackage >(later B&O) was apparently taken up in the late 60's - hardly surprising >when you consider that they had to climb out of Foxburg using two >switchbacks on 2.7% grades! Also, does anyone have a good map of >Foxburg, such as a Valuation track map? Again, I'd really like to have >a map of the ex-P&W track (it was taken over by the B&O) but the PRR map >would also be helpful > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Price" Subject: [PRR] PRR FONTS Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:54:48 -0000 Hi All, I'm new to the list so please forgive if this question has been asked. I'm in the process of making decals and have yet been unable to identify some fonts that PRR used. The large numbers used on Locomotives in the 60's(SD-45, SD-40, GP-35, U-Boats, etc) looks like some type of futura to me. Freight cars of this time also seem to have the same type of font but smaller. Any one know what these fonts are called or perhaps where to get them? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Ed ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] PRR O Scale Needs Assessment Survey Date: Wed, 14 Apr 99 14:33:00 -0400 From: Jerry Can't slight the O-scalers, so here goes...the first ever "PRR-Talk" O Scale Needs Assessment Survey! For O scale modelers only, please name the top five models you would like to see produced in each of the following categories. Please include the PRR class of the product as well as your long-term need in quantity. You may also indicate if a shell/side is acceptable. Please send the results directly to me...not to the list!!! I will summarize next week and e-mail the results to the leading O scale manufacturers as well as the smaller resin manufacturers. Thanks. Remember, up to five in each category... STEAM LOCOMOTIVE & TENDERS DIESEL LOCOMOTIVE ELECTRIC LOCOMOTIVE FREIGHT ROLLING STOCK & NON-REVENUE EQUIPMENT PASSENGER ROLLINGS STOCK STRUCTURES OTHER ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Leaving Soon Date: Wed, 14 Apr 99 21:20:40 -0800 From: David I am going to be leaving soon for a while. When I do I am going to unsubscribe till I get back. Maybe you will see me wave at the Camera on CNN. If anyone wants to drop me a note then, please do it at my hotmail address. I can't subscribe on that because it is too combersome to work through 50-100 list letters everyday. David Lind VAQ-133 two_edge@hotmail.com Oak Harbor, WA FPO AP 96601 Proverbs 22:6 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 03:03:38 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Leaving Soon Via con Dios, Dave. Since the Keystone Division is inactive, you should be easy to spot. Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: [PRR] New Book Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:55:41 -0400 Having just received my copy of Morning Sun's new PRR book "Pennsylvania Railroad, Standard Railroad of the World Volume 1", I thought that I would pass along to the list that I am very pleased with it. My personal collection of PRR books is embarrassingly large and I always fear that soon there will begin to be duplicated photos from one publication to the next. Hasn't happened yet. The new book contains many great new shots, including several full page photos of T1's 6110 and 6111 with the large circle keystones on their tenders. (BTW, they do look green, not black, but that's another thread). There is a particularly nice photo of a very clean K2 still in service during the 1940's. Also, many shots of DGLE BP-20's as well as an interesting photo of a pair of Centipedes with a BP-20 B unit attached to them! Yes, the price has gone up from previous Morning Sun offerings, but I still had to have this one. Unfortunately, I wasn't old enough at the time to remember PRR steam in service. I'm very thankful that I can now witness it through all the fine books and videos that are available to us today. Jerry Breon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Laird, Bill" Subject: RE: [PRR] Leaving Soon Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:32:56 -0500 An open letter to David Lind: Dear Mr. Lind, Thank you. Thank you for your unselfeous duty to this country. Thank you for leaving friends and family safe in this country to go off in harms way to some distant land. Thank you for your commitment to duty, honor, and country. We, the vetrans of previous conflicts, salute you the champions of the present. Thank you. As the PRR did for her employees who went off to war, we will save your position for you until you safely return. Good luck and god speed. Bill Laird > -----Original Message----- > From: David > Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 12:21 AM > To: PRR Talk; Reading Talk > Subject: [PRR] Leaving Soon > > I am going to be leaving soon for a while. When I do I am going to > unsubscribe till I get back. Maybe you will see me wave at the Camera on > CNN. > > If anyone wants to drop me a note then, please do it at my hotmail > address. I can't subscribe on that because it is too combersome to work > through 50-100 list letters everyday. > > David Lind VAQ-133 two_edge@hotmail.com > Oak Harbor, WA FPO AP 96601 Proverbs 22:6 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:27:08 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [prr] A paper about Thomas Scott Yesterday I stumbled over a paper I found interesting. The url is www.furman.edu/~benson/col-tom.html Read a couple things there that I hadn't known before (although it's easy to find things that are news to me). Thought some of you guys might find it interesting too. === Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] New Book Date: Thu, 15 Apr 99 12:19:03 -0400 From: Jerry On 4/15/99 9:55 AM, jbreon (jbreon@email.msn.com) wrote: > Having just received my copy of Morning Sun's new PRR book >"Pennsylvania Railroad, Standard Railroad of the World Volume 1", I thought >that I would pass along to the list that I am very pleased with it. > Yes, the price has gone up from previous Morning Sun offerings, but I >still had to have this one. Unfortunately, I wasn't old enough at the time >to remember PRR steam in service. I'm very thankful that I can now witness >it through all the fine books and videos that are available to us today. This, and all other Morning Sun Books' books, are on sale at 20% off to celebrate the opening of the "Merchandise Service" eCommerce site. I have received several orders for this book already! http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:24:37 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Leaving Soon Dear David: Never doubt that there are millions of Americans who deeply appreciate the sacrifices you make to preserve our liberties and those of a large portion of the rest of the world. You and all active duty personnel deserve no less that the complete support of all Americans. Thank you for what you are doing for us. God Bless You and may He keep you safe. Richard Orr Past Commander-in-Chief Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alan Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Speeders, Putt-Putts, and Section Cars Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:14:44 -0400 Bill, Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. I was engaged in doing mounted and dismounted railroad reconnoitering in western PA for a week and a half and was also at the Lines West fest in Xenia. Regarding PRR speeder colors. The one visible on page 60 of the 4/95 MRG is all yellow w/ silver roof. However, be careful here as that was during PC days. The one on page 48 of 11/95 edition is yellow w/ silver roof with a black chevron on the front, barely visible - look hard. This was more traditional PRR. The series of MW articles you referred to is scheduled to be published as a book (by Highlands Station), hopefully this fall - it was originally supposed to be out last fall, after John Teichmoeller's PRR Hopper book which is now scheduled out this spring. I have added a few new photos in the book version including a PRR speeder. In this added photo, graciously donated by Richard Bradley (Warren, PA), the speeder was all yellow (including roof) with a wide black chevron on the front and back. It started on the lower corner of both sides and met in the middle, the top of the chevron being about even with the bottom of the front window line. I would guess the chevron to be about 8" +/- wide. There were also two small red marker lights outboard beneath the windows and silver numbers on a black background centered over the front windows on each end. This unit was 5178. The front also had a bell (large door bell type - or CNW loco type)and a windshield wiper over what would be, on a locomotive, the fireman's side. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" celebrates its new eCommerce site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com with a 20% off sale. Visit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne Dibert" <102016.1343@worldnet.att.net> Subject: [PRR] Gods Speed Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:42:40 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01BE8788.E2BEA700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable God bless David and may the winds of peace be at your back. We will all = be here for you when you come home.=20 I remember. Wayne F. Dibert ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01BE8788.E2BEA700 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

God bless David and may the winds of = peace be=20 at your back. We will all be here for you when you come home. =

I remember.

Wayne F. Dibert

***If anyone did not get my emails ( account win98, = IE5, etc,=20 reinstalled ) the Lines East Trenton Excursion mounts up at 0900 = Thursday, west=20 side of Trenton Station. Maps and ETT's, etc. provided. Bring shovels to = unearth=20 those canal signals !! Bill***