Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 01:27:00 -0500 From: Dave Freshwater Subject: [PRR] Reply about PRR K4 License Plates I sent a message off to the RR Museum of PA about the K4 license plates, for those of us out of state. Here is their reply. Dave Freshwater North Potomac, Md -----------------------Message Separator----------------------- Subject: RR heritage license plates Date: Thu, 31 Dec 98 12:47:00 -0500 From: david_dunn@phmc.state.pa.us To: Mr. Freshwater: It is our understanding the PennDOT will be soon making a "sample" license plate available for sale. The sample will have four zero's on the plate so people can't tape numbers on and knock over Seven Elevens with a bogus plate. We hope to sell them in the Museum Shop, but no date of availability or price has been mentioned. Check back with us in about two or three months, maybe we will have them by then. David Dunn, Director ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 00:38:03 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR Lettering Phases - Updates for the Website Happy New Year! All of you must have had a great holiday season, as only Terry Stuart picked up the challenge to critique points of accuracy on the Keystone Crossings website freight car lettering "page." Thanks to Jerry Britton for being tolerant of my beefing about fine points of PRR's freight car lettering practices; I appreciate his continuing work in keeping us all communicating via Keystone Crossings and PRR-Talk. As promised, here's my New Year's Eve list of nitpicks on the freight car scheme portion of the Keystone Crossings website. Again, I apologize for being a scale rule Richard (pun intended here), but I've been researching this area pretty hard recently, and Jerry and I both want the posted info to be correct. It's unfortunate that the Summer 1988 Keystone is out of print, as Brady McGuire's article illustrates all the below so well: DESCRIPTIONS 1. NK3 "PENNSYLVANIA" is not double-underlined on any of the NK3 pictures I've found. I've just verified this again from PRR freight car photos in a 1916 Car Builder's Cyclopedia. A one-inch bar is placed between the 7" PENNSYLVANIA and the 7" car number, like PENNSYLVANIA 123456 2. NK4. Says the number is underlined, but "PENNSYLVANIA" is not. More correctly, the 7" reporting marks are bracketed above and below by 1" lines: _____________ PENNSYLVANIA 123456 3. "Don't Stand Me Still" and the calendar script numbers aren't contemporaries, and aren't used on the same car. - DSMS was used only on X29D. In fact, it was used only on 500 of the X29D's that were rebuilt in August 1955, well into the SK1b period. - SK1a was used on just a few cars (February to June 1954): 20 X48's, the first order of 350 H34's, and a few boxcar repaints. - Don't confuse X29D rebuilds with X29B. X29B's rebuilds (1948) were way too early to carry SK1a, although some did carry MS1 Merchandise scheme, which is of course based on the CK scheme. CAR MODELS SHOWN ON THE SITE 4. PRR 913467 has reporting marks of NK3, but carries CK herald. Wonder if this ever happened in real life? No prototype photos like this known to me. 5. PRR 69636 is recognizably SK2b pattern, but the PRR and the 69636 don't look the same size. They should both be 7" letters. 6. PRR 720452 looks like SK2a (not SK2b) to me, because the reporting marks are in Roman. 7. PRR 67402 represents PK, but the numbers 67402 look a little small. According to Brady, these were 10" numerals under a 14" bold Gothic PRR. 8. And from Terry Stuart: PRR 497289 Terry questions the white S in a white box. In every prototype boxcar picture I've seen with this style stores marking, the S is yellow in a yellow box, not white. Terry is also correct that the PRR is not quite the correct lettering style. It should probably be slightly fatter (it's BOLD Gothic) and placed slightly lower, since this is just extra markings (and a nonrevenue car number) on a PK paint scheme. BTW, just to keep the pot boiling, does anybody have a strong opinion of which phase (s) is represented by Bowser's lettering of the F30A flat car? If so, what persuades you it belongs to that phase? Rick Tipton On the Panhandle in Louisville KY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 11:14:05 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser F30A flatcar On Thu, 31 Dec 1998, Jim Six wrote: > Y'all, > > I am trying to learn more about Pennsy freight cars so that I can model them > reasonably accurately. I opened up the box of a Bowser F30A flat car and > want to get started building, detailing and weathering it. I looked ion my > copy of PRR Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment and, like, . . . > there ain't no F30A flat cars in the book. As close as I can come in that > book is an F30H bulkhead end flat. Color Guide 2 shows 2 pages worth, plus one resurrected as a M/W car. I can try to answer specific questions, but I'm not even gonna try to make a general description. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 11:25:50 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Lettering Phases - Updates for the Website (reply list considerably pruned; maybe i shouldn't have, but i feel bad about sending messages here and there...) On Fri, 1 Jan 1999 RickTipton@aol.com wrote: > Happy New Year! > > 8. And from Terry Stuart: PRR 497289 Terry questions the white S in a white > box. In every prototype boxcar picture I've seen with this style stores > marking, the S is yellow in a yellow box, not white. Terry is also correct > that the PRR is not quite the correct lettering style. It should probably be > slightly fatter (it's BOLD Gothic) and placed slightly lower, since this is > just extra markings (and a nonrevenue car number) on a PK paint scheme. I won't argue this, but what was white S, white box? No picture in the color guides illustrates this, which probably means it's a GIF or JPG I saw. Will see if I can find it, again. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 11:15:42 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Lettering Phases - Updates for the Website In a message dated 1/1/99 2:52:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, RickTipton@aol.com writes: > DESCRIPTIONS > 1. NK3 "PENNSYLVANIA" is not double-underlined on any of the NK3 pictures I' > ve > found. I've just verified this again from PRR freight car photos in a 1916 > Car Builder's Cyclopedia. A one-inch bar is placed between the 7" > PENNSYLVANIA and the 7" car number, like > > PENNSYLVANIA > 123456 > > 2. NK4. Says the number is underlined, but "PENNSYLVANIA" is not. More > correctly, the 7" reporting marks are bracketed above and below by 1" lines: > _____________ > PENNSYLVANIA > 123456 > Gize, I see that the system elected to delete the underlines from my above earlier posting -- in two important places. Let's drop back to a more "ASCII" representation. The NK3 (1906-1926) should have the 1" bar between PENNSYLVANIA and the numerals: PENNSYLVANIA (7 inch extended railroad Roman) --------------------- (one inch solid line) 123456 (7 inch extended railroad Roman) NK4 (1926-1930) uses a reporting marks pattern that carries on into CK (1930-1954). Again, all the characters of the reporting mark are in the 7" extended railroad Roman. In this scheme, there is a 1" line spaced 2" above the PENNSYLVANIA, and another 1" line spaced 2" below the numerals. The ASCII approximation: -------------------- PENNSYLVANIA 123456 --------- As always, a prototype photo is the best guide. But the above seems to be good, hard-and-fast PRR practice, and I'd appreciate hearing about any exceptions. Hope the above clears up any confusion. Again, I wish the Keystone was still in print back to Summer 1988, as Brady McGuire's article illustrates all this and more so well. Til the next train out, Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) Operating the Panhandle Route And Remembering PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 21:36:42 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR's "Texas Eagle" The 1999 Morning Sun PRR calendar has a fanciful advertising poster which depicts 12 PRR diesel-powered passenger trains "coming at you" on 12 parallel tracks. The two leaders, in the center, are labelled "Broadway Ltd." and "Liberty Ltd.". The other trains are labelled as the General, Spirit of St.Louis, Trail Blazer, Jeffersonian, Clevelander, Cincinnati Ltd., Admiral, Red Arrow, St.Louisan, and, to my surprise, the "Texas Eagle". I was surprised because I had thought that the assemblage of NY/Washington-Texas cars had always carried the name "Penn Texas". A May 1949 Official Guide, calls PRR No. 3 the "Penn Texas" (and trumpets the new "Texas Eagle" in the Missouri Pacific section). But my previous Guide (August 1948) identifies No. 3 as the "Sunshine Special", which was MP's old, pre-streamlining, St.Louis- Texas train. So logic would indicate that there was a short period during which No. 3 was, indeed, called the "Texas Eagle". Does anyone on here have exact dates, or even just a schedule which shows this train name on PRR lines? Rich Copeland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 01:16:08 -0500 From: Dave Freshwater Subject: [PRR] Tower Paint Schemes When did PRR shift its paint scheme for towers from tan/brown to grey/grey for towers? Dave Freshwater North Potomac, MD ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 18:02:08 EST Subject: [PRR] Unloading Some Pennsy Stuff Folks, Before placing an add in MR, I thought I might offer some odds and ends to you guys first.(Don't worry Jerry, it doesn't include anything Desktop Solutions sells). Amoung other items there's a couple Atlas Pennsy RS11's, CCS R50 kit, 44-tonner, P2K E8, Alpha N5 a/f cabin, books, etc all Pennsy decorated or stlye, and a Walthers MP54 combine/coach set painted and lettered and powered (combine RTR). Also a Gilbert DL600b as used as a passenger helper on Horseshoe (and the model actually runs pretty fair, but is still in demo colors. There's more stuff, too, but I don't want to get too abusive of this list. Please advise offline if interested. Happy New Year and may the Good Lord bless you all. Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alan Buchan" Subject: [PRR] Class GS gons (Bowser) in MW service Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 16:56:04 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE35A7.9E1F1400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Within the past few days somebody posted a message regarding painting a = Bowser class GS gon in yellow w/ black CK logo for MW service. Be careful here if you want to be perfectly prototypical. Ken McCorry, = Paul Backenstose and I have been collaborating on developing an all = time list of PRR non-revenue MW equipment for several years now. The = list is incomplete but growing all the time, one of these days it will = be to the point of completion that it can be published. As far as I can = determine from a quick scan of the list there are no class GS gons on = the incomplete roster. If there is any information out there on class GS = gons in MW service please advise. Thanx. Most all gons in MW service (1940s to the end) were classes GR, GRA, = G-22 and G-26. The later being modified as panelized turnout carriers.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE35A7.9E1F1400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Within the past few days somebody = posted a=20 message regarding painting a Bowser class GS gon in yellow w/ black CK = logo for=20 MW service.
 
Be careful here if you want to be = perfectly=20 prototypical. Ken McCorry, Paul Backenstose and I have been = collaborating =20 on developing an all time list of PRR non-revenue MW equipment for = several years=20 now. The list is incomplete but growing all the time, one of these days = it will=20 be to the point of completion that it can be published. As far as I can=20 determine from a quick scan of the list there are no class GS gons on = the=20 incomplete roster. If there is any information out there on class GS = gons in MW=20 service please advise. Thanx.
 
Most all gons in MW service (1940s = to the end)=20 were classes GR, GRA, G-22 and G-26. The later being modified as = panelized=20 turnout carriers.
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE35A7.9E1F1400-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alan Buchan" Subject: [PRR] S Cars Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 16:38:03 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE35A5.1A103BA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Somebody posted a message within the last day asking about PRR cars with = the white "S" inside the white box. First of all it was a yellow "S" inside a yellow box. The Bowser = printing of this on their X31A and the Middle Division decal sheet that = includes this symbol in white is incorrect. Also because of fading, = light conditions, and color shift in film, pictures of "S-cars" could = give the impression that the symbol was a dirty or off white.=20 The symbol was applied to cars under the control of the material and = stores department that were dedicated to move company material around = the system. The cars included class X-29 and X-31A box cars for all = sorts of materials, H-30 cover hoppers for sand, and F45B flat cars for = wheels. The cars were typically painted freight car red, although some = of the sand cars were painted yellow. Tank cars (gray with black = lettering in later years) were also used to ship oil but they did not = display the S symbol. All cars in these types service were classified = as non-revenue and were numbered within the non-revenue block of car = numbers =20 Although a lot of material was shipped directly to the point of use by = manufacturers much of it was shipped to central warehouses and = distributed from there as required. The "S-cars" were moved from point = to point in revenue freight trains. In the mid 1950s the PRR had over = 175,000 line items, valued at over $70 million stored in over 130 = storehouses, 100 "working stocks" and 320 material yards and minor = storage points. Al ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE35A5.1A103BA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Somebody posted a message within the = last day=20 asking about PRR cars with the white "S" inside the white=20 box.
 
First of all it was a yellow=20 "S" inside a yellow box. The Bowser printing of this on = their=20 X31A and the Middle Division decal sheet that includes this symbol in = white is=20 incorrect. Also because of fading, light conditions, and color = shift in=20 film, pictures of "S-cars" could give the impression that the = symbol=20 was a dirty or off white.
 
The symbol was applied to cars under = the control=20 of the material and stores department that were dedicated to move = company=20 material around the system. The cars included class X-29 and X-31A box = cars for=20 all sorts of materials, H-30 cover hoppers for sand, and F45B flat cars = for=20 wheels. The cars were typically painted freight car red, although some = of the=20 sand cars were painted yellow. Tank cars (gray with black lettering in = later=20 years) were also used to ship oil but they did not display the S symbol. = All=20 cars in these  types service were classified as non-revenue and = were=20 numbered within the non-revenue block of car numbers   =
 
Although a lot of material was = shipped directly=20 to the point of use by manufacturers much of it was shipped to central=20 warehouses and distributed from there as required. The = "S-cars" were=20 moved from point to point in revenue freight trains. In the mid 1950s = the PRR=20 had over 175,000 line items, valued at over $70 million stored in over = 130=20 storehouses, 100 "working stocks" and 320 material yards and = minor=20 storage points.
 
Al
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE35A5.1A103BA0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 12:09:08 EST Subject: [PRR] Am I still on the list? Jerry, I haven't seen any Pennsy or Reading listings since early New Year's Day. What's goin' on? Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 13:06:23 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser F30A flatcar Plans or diagrams of the F30A can be found in the February 1991 issue of Mainline Modeler. A photo and construction drawings are in Train Shed Cyclopedia #17. A thirteen page article with numerous photos and drawings appeared in the Spring 1990 issue of The Keystone. The trucks are certainly not andrews or crown. The trucks were class 2E-F10, except for car # 475265, which ad 2E-F13. The design is described as double truss sideframes, with non-harmonic spring groups. Visible in the photo of the trucks is one coil spring and one leaf spring. In a message dated 12/31/98 4:08:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, jimsix@ncweb.com writes: << I am trying to learn more about Pennsy freight cars so that I can model them reasonably accurately. I opened up the box of a Bowser F30A flat car and want to get started building, detailing and weathering it. I looked ion my copy of PRR Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment and, like, . . . there ain't no F30A flat cars in the book. As close as I can come in that book is an F30H bulkhead end flat. >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 13:57:38 -0500 From: Dave Freshwater Subject: [PRR] B&O M-26A Box Cars I am not a member of the B&O Historical Society; a friend forwarded me this message. And, even though it ain't PRR, yuo have to have some cars from that other road in your consist. So, I decided to forward this on to the list. Some of you might be interested and this will help a good cause. I can't answer any questions beyond what is in the message, except I did order cars from them already (but haven't received them, so no review.) Dave Freshwater North Potomac, MD --------------------- As many B&O Historical Society members already know, we're in the midst of running a project on N-scale boxcars, B&O class M26-a. This style of 40' single door, steel-sheathed boxcar was the B&O's most prevalent class, running from the late 1920's on into the 1960's. We have sold many of these to our members via a reservation process and will offer the rest on public sale beginning at the next Great Scale Train show in Timonium, MD in late January 1999. In the meantime, we'd be happy to fill any orders that come to us by mail. I would ask that you share this info with your N-scale friends. Our cars are made by Red Caboose, well respected for the quality and accuracy of their work. Our society only sells B&O models if they are at minimum 85% accurate to the prototype. We work closely with many model makers to assure quality and correctness of B&O models that reach the marketplace. Proceeds from these projects goes to keeping our archives and the archive building in the black and able to support more projects and the general needs of historians and researchers to have access to the records and such that we possess. Red Caboose is running us a set of cars with 12 different road numbers, and these numbers will be unique to the Society and not available from any other source. The cars will be here later in December, and I will personally ship them asap via Priority Mail. I cannot promise delivery for Christmas, but it will be very close. We are selling the cars in sets of 4, 8 or 12 cars. Prices are: FOUR CAR SETS /__/ $54.00 for a set of 4 cars. /__/ MD residents send $57.00 to cover MD sales tax. EIGHT CAR SETS /__/ $106.00 for a set of 8 cars. /__/ MD residents send $112.00 to cover MD sales tax. TWELVE CAR SETS /__/ $158.00 for a set of 12 cars. /__/ MD residents send $166.00 to cover MD sales tax. Interested N-trakkers should send their check or money order to: N-Scale Boxcar Project B&O RR Historical Society P. O. Box 24068 Baltimore, MD 21227-0568 Buyers can send in a copy of this email with their name & address, plus an email or phone number they can be reached at. All prices include the cost of Priority Mail. Thank you very much! s/Mike Cather V-P Finance & Marketing B&O RR Historical Society ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: locoshop@juno.com Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 12:03:15 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Fw: [SEMRA] Update on LL GP7's Here we go all, this is the new list of next run GP7s all non-dynamic. Jeremy Helms Omaha, Nebraska locoshop@juno.com --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Rich Warner To: SEMRA@LISTSERV.DARTMOUTH.EDU Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 12:03:13 -0500 Subject: [SEMRA] Update on LL GP7's Message-ID: <000101be3671$c95e2ff0$3e246018@400.gte.net> These should be available in April, 1999. Life Like is making the following locomotives: Santa Fe Blue/Yellow Billboards 3 Road Numbers B&O Blue 2 Road Numbers C&NW Green & Yellow 2 Road Numbers CRI&P Red,White,Black 2 Road Numbers FEC Red & Yellow 2 Road Numbers GN Green & Orange 3 Road Numbers IC Black w/ Grn Diamond 2 Road Numbers L&N Black & Cream 2 Road Numbers MP Blue & Gray 2 Road Numbers NYC Lightning Stripe 2 Road Numbers PRR Brunswick Green 2 Road Numbers SAL Green & Cream 2 Road Numbers Undec All locos will be without dynamic brakes and without steam generators. Rich ____________________________________________________________ End of SEMRA message. Postings: SEMRA@LISTSERV.DARTMOUTH.EDU Commands: LISTSERV@LISTSERV.DARTMOUTH.EDU Online Help: http://www.dartmouth.edu/~dbott/mra_faq.html Web Search: http://listserv.dartmouth.edu/Archives/semra.html Report problems to: SEMRA-Request@LISTSERV.DARTMOUTH.EDU ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 13:13:46 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Six' latest: PRR GS gon Rick, there were three GS' running in revenue service in 1968. Of course, the ORER doesn't give paint scheme info, but sounds reasonable to me. John Keel In a message dated 12/31/98 7:21:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, RickTipton@aol.com writes: << I'll soon have to decide how decrepit to make one of these in SK1b (1954) scheme look in 1968, which is pushing credibility a little. My cowardly but prototypical alternative of course is to go MoW yaller in a circle keystone scheme... Rick Tipton >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 20:52:47 -0800 From: "Eugene E. Deimling" Subject: [PRR] Middle Division I saw a reference to Middle Division decals in a recent email. Are they still in business??? I ahve purchased some cabin car decals years ago in O scale and like them. Gene Deimling ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jim Six" Subject: [PRR] AC&Y logo/herald Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 23:53:21 -0500 HELP! I have a decal manufacturer about to get started on doing an AC&Y freightcar decal set for HO scale. Only thing we need is a scan of the AC&Y logo/herald. If anybody has one that they can scan and send to me ASAP I would appreciate it -- so would a lot of other modelers as well! Jim Six jimsix@ncweb.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 00:14:32 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: [PRR] Clipping the wings of (PRR's) Texas Eagle Greetings to Rich and the list: Rich wrote: > I was surprised because I had thought that the assemblage > of NY/Washington-Texas cars had always carried the > name "Penn Texas". Me too. A check of Form 1 timetables shows that indeed, Nos. 3 and 4 carried the name Sunshine Special in the 7/11/48 issue, but the name was changed to Texas Eagle in the following editions: 8/15/48 9/26/48 10/31/48 By the next issue, that of 12/12/48, the name had been changed to Penn Texas. So it appears that this was an extremely short-lived PRR name train name, lasting perhaps four months. It would be interesting to know why the change was made -- perhaps confusion at St. Louis if, for example, the eastbound/northbound MP Texas Eagle was delayed and the eastbound PRR Texas Eagle left for NY without waiting for the connecting sleepers. I can well imagine the exasperated ticket agent at St. Louis Union answering the query of an equally exasperated passenger: "What do you mean, I missed it? It hasn't even arrived yet!" After all, this wasn't a true inter-railroad train like the California Zephyr, C&NW-UP and C&NW-UP-SP "City" trains, or, for that matter, PRR-RF&P-ACL/SAL/FEC NY-Florida trains. It was a through-car connection, nothing more, nothing less, and certainly not a solid train. That's what I love about this list. The more you think you know about the PRR, the more you discover you don't really know it at all. Dan Dan Cupper dan@cwix.com Psalm 150 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] Prr interchange traffic Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 22:22:58 -0800 I recently could not pass up a deal on two O scale box cars manufactured by Precision Scale. They are PSC number 15559, 50 ft , wood outside braced, fishbelly centerseal, 1&1/2 door boxcars. I model the steam era of the 30s and 40s on the Pennsy. I want these cars to fit in. Does anyone know of a prototype for these cars appropriate for a car in interchange with the pennsy? I believe they may be prototypical for southern pacific. Thanks, Greg Stone ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] More LL GP7's in PRR? Date: Sun, 3 Jan 99 08:46:46 -0500 From: Jerry On 1/2/99 1:03 PM, locoshop@juno.com (locoshop@juno.com) wrote: >Here we go all, this is the new list of next run GP7s all non-dynamic. > >These should be available in April, 1999. > >PRR Brunswick Green 2 Road Numbers Please confirm. They just did three numbers in PRR. Are they really doing two more? ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@dsop.com "Keystone Crossings" http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space available at http://www.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Unloading Some Pennsy Stuff Date: Sun, 3 Jan 99 08:39:40 -0500 From: Jerry On 1/1/99 6:02 PM, BPX29@aol.com (BPX29@aol.com) wrote: >Before placing an add in MR, I thought I might offer some odds and ends to >you >guys first.(Don't worry Jerry, it doesn't include anything Desktop Solutions >sells). Amoung other items there's a couple Atlas Pennsy RS11's, CCS R50 kit, >44-tonner, P2K E8, >Alpha N5 a/f cabin, books, etc all Pennsy decorated or stlye, and a Walthers >MP54 combine/coach set painted and lettered and powered (combine RTR). Also a >Gilbert DL600b as used as a passenger helper on Horseshoe (and the model >actually runs pretty fair, but is still in demo colors. There's more stuff, >too, but I don't want to get too abusive of this list. Please advise offline >if interested. Bruce and others: Posting PRR stuff you want to sell off on this list is appropriate. Merchandise Service does sell PRR stuff, and its proceeds offset costs of running my server and domains. However, I am not trying to corner the market! That little snippet at the bottom of every post is for rent -- when it is not rented it, by default, points folks to my shop. If D&S or any other vendor wants to pay for that snippet space, I'll give it up in a flash. Your use of the list for the above is appropriate. Just the same, thanks for the consideration. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@dsop.com "Keystone Crossings" http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space available at http://www.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Bachman K4 & varnish From: fredrea@juno.com (Fred G Rea) Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 11:44:55 EST In 1995 I began buying equipment for my new layout, PRR in the late 1940's. One of my first purchases was to mail order a Bachman K-4 and 3 cars (diner, combine & coach). I did not know I had a choice and got the gaudy "multi stripe" K-4. Doesn't look like what I remember at all. To make matters worse it is noisy and will barely pull the 3 cars on level track and not at all on my 2.5% grades. I attribute this to poor pulling power of the K-4 and incredible drag from the otherwise beautiful cars. One of the "What I got from Santa" letters referred to new K-4s. The first hobby shop I checked had not heard of any, the second showed me one! It would appear they have redone the K-4 to the standards of their well known 2-8-0. Great! Then my son gave a set of truck from a Bachman obs and one of the new Pullmans. Both the trucks and the pullman roll great. Virtually no drag yet good electrical pick up. I notice Train World uses a new product number for the new K-4. Same old product number on the cars. Have the cars, particularly the trucks, been re-designed? If so, are the new trucks as good looking and PRR style as the old ones? How can I be sure I am getting better rolling if I order more cars, particularly coaches? Can I get new trucks to retro fit the 3 old cars I have? Any suggestions or warnings as I try to remove the gaudy stripes from the old K-4?. I want to weather it and use it as a "helper" with either my Proto 200 Pa+Pb or a newer K-4. The PA will haul 15 passenger cars (including the 3 drag intensive Bachmans) and the dummy PB on my 2.5% with out hesitating! The "helper" would be pure cosmetics. Maybe the old K-4 should just occupy a piece of track in a park! Unfortunately, not yet done in the late 40's. I would also like to blacken the rods on the K-4, a Rivarossi Y6, and 3 Bowser locos. Any ideas or warnings on this. Paint? Hobby Black? Forget it? Thanks Fred Rea NMRA PRRH&TS ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 11:31:48 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] More LL GP7's in PRR? On Sun, 3 Jan 1999, Jerry wrote: > >These should be available in April, 1999. > > > >PRR Brunswick Green 2 Road Numbers > > Please confirm. They just did three numbers in PRR. Are they really doing > two more? those were dynamic. these are not. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ogarasteam@aol.com Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 12:58:32 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachman K4 & varnish I have used gun blueing on Bowser rods and this gives them a nice grimy black look. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ogarasteam@aol.com Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 12:54:51 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachman K4 & varnish You could use the Bowser conversion for the Bachman K4. It will pull 17 passenger cars ( Riv) Did you try and replace the wheels with new KD wheels . Every Hobby Shop that sell thier couplers sell the replacement wheels. Paint the engine & tender Brun.green and then add and extra details and weather.Joe O ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk@aol.com Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 14:01:17 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Middle Division Yes, they're still in business. I bought a PRR blueprint from the owner recently, and asked him the same question. He confirmed that they are still in business. John Keel In a message dated 1/3/99 1:05:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, eedlg@concentric.net writes: << I saw a reference to Middle Division decals in a recent email. Are they still in business??? I ahve purchased some cabin car decals years ago in O scale and like them. Gene Deimling >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 14:18:08 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachman K4 & varnish In a message dated 1/3/99 10:53:27 AM Central Standard Time, fredrea@juno.com writes: << It would appear they have redone the K-4 to the standards of their well known 2-8-0. >> This is the second or third reference to this. Is this really true and is it DCC socket equipped? Anyone on the list know? BTW, I just used chalks to weather two of the K4s. I used mix of green and ash to give it a used look and at least give it a slight hint of DGLE underneath. Used straight ash on the oxide red cab roof and tender cistern top. Had to work like crazy on the 1375 to darken the glossy silver smokebox and ashpan- even oily chalks don't adhere to the paint used there. Of course, an overall weathering with an airbrush would work a little easier, but I wanted to control it better as I went. 1375 with that shininess removed looks great! Reason I ask about the DCC decoder plug is that I tried to take one of the Bachmann K4s apart to requarter the drivers and install a decoder, but 8 jillion parts flew off in every direction. Guess I'll have to get some 4-year-old Chinese kids to put it back together. If you could reach the bottom motor brush lead to clip it and resolder a new wire without disassembly, the project would work. Bob Zoeller Fox Point, WI ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 16:05:16 -0500 From: Brian Brooks Subject: Re: [PRR] Class GS gons (Bowser) in MW service At 04:56 PM 1/1/99 -0500, you wrote: >Ken McCorry, Paul Backenstose and I have been collaborating on developing an all time list of PRR >non-revenue MW equipment for several years now. The list is incomplete but growing all the time, one of >these days it will be to the point of completion that it can be published. As far as I can determine from a >quick scan of the list there are no class GS gons on the incomplete roster. If there is any information out >there on class GS gons in MW service please advise. Thanx. > Alan, There are many modelers who would benefit from your research. Any chance we can twist your collective arms to get at least some of your data on the web? Brian Brooks ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] PRR weight/scale cars Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 12:45:07 -0800 Does anyone no of a decal or transfer company that produces lettering for a wieght/ scale car? Greg Stone PRRT&HS member interested in any information or photos on the Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 16:48:24 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachman K4 & varnish Regarding the new K-4. I picked one up at Mitchells last week during their sale and in comparing it to an original Bachman that I have had for a few years here are the differences. The mechanism is completely new , rear driver is sprung , drivers have much thinner spokes the lead truck has a shorter wheelbase and the front pilot is set up for an operating coupler. The drawbar is also new a neat design allowing really close coupling on a straightaway and allows it to open up on a curve. The tender body is the same as before the frame,drawbar attachment coupler mounting and the wiring plugs are new . Tender trucks are now used for elec. pickup there is a decoder plug inside the tender which will allow me to install the SoundTrax K-4 decoder I've got. The engine weights more than the original so it should pull better I haven't tested this as of yet. The one I have seen test run on DC ran quietly and smoothly. As soon as I insatll the decoder I'll let you all know how it runs on DCC. Joe Gotaskie a list member also picked one up at Mitchells when we were there. We both agreed that the new one is a vast improvement over the original. Some of the detail parts used the bell, whistle and generator are a little heavy sided but with these replaced and a paint job it would be hard to tell from a PFM version from years ago. Now I have to build a B-60 with open doors for the railfans to hang out of on the steam fantrips on my Northern Central. Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] RE: K4 and Varnish Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 12:43:14 -0800 To weather the rods on my O scale steam I used walnut stain by one of the model rr paint makers. I can't remember which one. This gives the rods that oily appearance, not black but like oil comming out of a can. You can add varying degrees of stain to make it darker. It looks just like the rods I have seen on steam still in existance..i.e. the strassburg rr. The rods are still steel color but it takes away the shine and gives it that aged look. Greg Stone PRRT&HS member Interested in any information or photos on the Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 19:00:21 EST Subject: Catching Up: was Re: [PRR] fwd: Millstone Branch? [long] Just catching up on the holiday backlog: back last year, Chris Brandt replied to "contact" with: (QUOTE) Subj: Re: [PRR] fwd: Millstone Branch?[long] Date: 98-12-22 22:57:14 EST From: cobrandt@eclipse.net (Chris Brandt) Sender: PRR-Talk@dsop.com To: contact@nighthawk.nu CC: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Forwarded from misc.transport.rail.americas: > > ------- Forwarded Message > > From: NIGHTHAWK COMMS > Newsgroups: misc.transport.rail.americas > Subject: PRR INFO NEEDED!!!! > Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:32:53 -0500 > > Does anyone know where I can find info on the PRR's Millstone Brach? I > had a huge site site pictures built about it and the damn server caught > fire. Problem is I don't remember who gave me the good info. > This line leaves the NEC 5 miles south of New Brunswick, NJ (NJT's > Jersey Ave station is at the begining) and continued all the way to E > Millstone. CR just replaced all the ties on what is left of the > once-busy branch. Some idiot build his back yard right over the > abandoned section. > Any help would be appriciated!!! > > ------- End of Forwarded Message > Pulled this out from the dusty archive...... (END QUOTE, AND SNIPPED THE REST (MY OLD POSTING)) Gosh, I've been elevated in status from "old farte" to "dusty archive"; glad to see that the stuff we "armatures" post are considered useful enough to save. Right now, I'm saving the matching material recently posted by Doug Hart and Frank Garon on the Reading and PRR in Mercer County, NJ. Best wishes to all for the New Year. Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA and Niles IL !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 19:00:21 EST Subject: Catching Up: was Re: [PRR] fwd: Millstone Branch? [long] Just catching up on the holiday backlog: back last year, Chris Brandt replied to "contact" with: (QUOTE) Subj: Re: [PRR] fwd: Millstone Branch?[long] Date: 98-12-22 22:57:14 EST From: cobrandt@eclipse.net (Chris Brandt) Sender: PRR-Talk@dsop.com To: contact@nighthawk.nu CC: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Forwarded from misc.transport.rail.americas: > > ------- Forwarded Message > > From: NIGHTHAWK COMMS > Newsgroups: misc.transport.rail.americas > Subject: PRR INFO NEEDED!!!! > Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:32:53 -0500 > > Does anyone know where I can find info on the PRR's Millstone Brach? I > had a huge site site pictures built about it and the damn server caught > fire. Problem is I don't remember who gave me the good info. > This line leaves the NEC 5 miles south of New Brunswick, NJ (NJT's > Jersey Ave station is at the begining) and continued all the way to E > Millstone. CR just replaced all the ties on what is left of the > once-busy branch. Some idiot build his back yard right over the > abandoned section. > Any help would be appriciated!!! > > ------- End of Forwarded Message > Pulled this out from the dusty archive...... (END QUOTE, AND SNIPPED THE REST (MY OLD POSTING)) Gosh, I've been elevated in status from "old farte" to "dusty archive"; glad to see that the stuff we "armatures" post are considered useful enough to save. Right now, I'm saving the matching material recently posted by Doug Hart and Frank Garon on the Reading and PRR in Mercer County, NJ. Best wishes to all for the New Year. Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA and Niles IL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 20:09:11 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR]Pass Car Survey out come Andy, Jerry and all, Jerry, to answer your question the R-50b was seen coast to coast as a matter of fact the "War Bonnette" a few months back did an article on headend equipment and this was one of those "must have" cars along with the B-60. Andy, doesn't it surprise you that no one in the group mentioned the Pullman Standard Troop Sleeper in the three different doors. Although Pennsy had it's own vrsion of the "troop sleeper" one can not ignore the fact that the BM and NH sent many of these car west over the P Co. I had a Roller Bearing Models cast resin (very brittle) and just sent it to a friend in hte Chicago area to add to his NH or BM fleet with the Cape Line Allied Full Cushion trucks and all. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Class GS gons (Bowser) in MW service Date: Sun, 3 Jan 99 20:07:44 -0500 From: Jerry On 1/3/99 4:05 PM, Brian Brooks (steelfan@ohio.net) wrote: >There are many modelers who would benefit from your research. Any chance we >can twist your collective arms to get at least some of your data on the web? Ken McCorry had shared with me an early version of the MoW roster for use on Keystone Crossings. Once they deem the project complete -- err, near complete because it is never complete -- if they are still willing to share it, I would place in it a database on KC just as I did with the Diesel Roster and the Cabin Car Roster. Would be searchable by class, car type, road number, etc. BTW: There is some one working on data entry of a steam roster for me, and I am working on Lightweight Passenger Cars. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@dsop.com "Keystone Crossings" http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space available at http://www.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] 1999 Convention & Potential Conflict Date: Sun, 3 Jan 99 20:58:57 -0500 From: Jerry A "heads up" on the 1999 convention in Altoona. It is in late August and was scheduled to coincide with the approximate 150th anniversary of the first revenue run into that town. However, it was also scheduled around Penn State's home football schedule. Since they're less than an hour away, fans book most of the hotel rooms in Altoona on football Saturday's. Being a rabid PSU fan myself -- and listmeister of a "PSUFootball" list -- (you can throw tomatos later!), I tend to keep an eye for PSU-related announcements. Well, there's one in the works that is said will be finalized within two weeks. Many parties -- media, players, etc. -- feel that PSU will have an excellent shot at the MNC (Mythical National Championship) next year. Besides having a strong Big Ten schedule -- the Big Ten went 5-0 in bowls this year -- they also have Miami. Now they are prepared to announce that they will be hosting the 1999 Pigskin Classic vs. Georgia Tech. Normally this game is played over Labor Day weekend. However, LD weekend falls late this year. That means it may be played over the same weekend as the PRRT&HS Convention!!! My suggestion: Book your rooms soon. Anyone up for The Station Inn in Cresson? Then again, let's all stay at Drew's place overlooking Horseshoe Curve! ;-) ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@dsop.com "Keystone Crossings" http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space available at http://www.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 20:53:24 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR GP-7 8512 On Sun, 3 Jan 1999, Wayne S. Betty wrote: > Correct - no original PRR GP7 had dynamic brakes. If by original, you mean the first batch they got, yes (the 8797-8806 batch); Some of the next batch had them (8503-8508) as well as 8554-8582. Note the photos in PDY-1, 69, 89, 100, PDY-5 p 32, etc... > RamblingReck@postoffice.worldnet.att.net wrote: > > > The info I've been able to find suggests that no PRR GP-7's were built > > with dynamics. Is this correct? Does anyone know if Pennsy added > > dynamics? Are there any photos available? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 20:24:33 -0500 From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR GP-7 8512 Correct - no original PRR GP7 had dynamic brakes. cos RamblingReck@postoffice.worldnet.att.net wrote: > The info I've been able to find suggests that no PRR GP-7's were built > with dynamics. Is this correct? Does anyone know if Pennsy added > dynamics? Are there any photos available? > > Wayne S. Betty wrote: > > Howdy All: > The best that I can find - 8512 class ES15m, builders number 16767, > built 8.1952. Renumbered to 5892 class ERS15, no dynamic brakes, twin > 36 inch cooling fans, no steam heat, Train phone antenna installed. > Made it to Penn Central, was not included in the GP8 rebuild program - I > have no information on its disposition. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Knepper" Subject: Re: [PRR] 1999 Convention & Potential Conflict Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 22:59:18 -0500 Jerry, Of course you will be at the convention, and not watching a bunch of guys running around a field chasing a funny shaped ball! PS: If you go to Penn State......stop a see the work that has been done on the station at Lewistown. Looking good! Bill (at the end of the tracks ) "Till NS comes to town!" ---------- > From: Jerry > To: PRR-Talk > Subject: [PRR] 1999 Convention & Potential Conflict > Date: Sunday, January 03, 1999 8:58 PM > > A "heads up" on the 1999 convention in Altoona. It is in late August and > was scheduled to coincide with the approximate 150th anniversary of the > first revenue run into that town. > > However, it was also scheduled around Penn State's home football > schedule. Since they're less than an hour away, fans book most of the > hotel rooms in Altoona on football Saturday's. > > Being a rabid PSU fan myself -- and listmeister of a "PSUFootball" list > -- (you can throw tomatos later!), I tend to keep an eye for PSU-related > announcements. Well, there's one in the works that is said will be > finalized within two weeks. Many parties -- media, players, etc. -- feel > that PSU will have an excellent shot at the MNC (Mythical National > Championship) next year. Besides having a strong Big Ten schedule -- the > Big Ten went 5-0 in bowls this year -- they also have Miami. Now they are > prepared to announce that they will be hosting the 1999 Pigskin Classic > vs. Georgia Tech. Normally this game is played over Labor Day weekend. > However, LD weekend falls late this year. That means it may be played > over the same weekend as the PRRT&HS Convention!!! > > My suggestion: Book your rooms soon. Anyone up for The Station Inn in > Cresson? Then again, let's all stay at Drew's place overlooking Horseshoe > Curve! ;-) > > ----------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton jerry@dsop.com > "Keystone Crossings" http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > Web space available at http://www.pennsyrr.com > ----------------------------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on > special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 00:18:52 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: Stewart RS3( reply correction) In a message dated 1/3/99 5:25:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, wsbcos@cris.com writes: << Howdy All: Sorry I can't answer to the use of dynamic brakes on the WM or LV, but the none of the PRR bought RS1's or RS3's or RSD4's had dynamic brakes. >> Walt and all, Let me clear something up before we all go off thinking that the P Co.'s RS-3's were not equipped with dynamic brakes. Yes, Virginia indeed some were equipped with dynamics and probably the most famous was the 8445 "hammerhead" (delivered 12/53 as a phase 1b) that was not only equipped with dynamics but also with a "Steam heat generator" or Steam generator. Other roads received hammer heads as well. Then there were the following units : 8435 thru 8438 built as phase 1a's 11/53 with dynamic brakes and originally assigned to the Northern Region. 8590 thru 8605 built as phase 3's 12/55 with dynamic brakes and originally assigned to Buckeye Region 8590 & 8591, Lake Region = 8596, Pittsburgh Region =8604 & 8505, Northern Region = 8592, 8593, 8594, 8599, 8600, and 8601, Philadelphia Region = 8597, 8598, 8602 and 8602, Chesapeake Region = 8595 << The RS3's originally had 4 classes: AS16 8914 - 1400 gal fuel AS16m 70 units - 1300 gal fuel AS16ms 43 units - 800 gal fuel and water AS16ms 8837 & 8856 800 gal fuel and 1200 gal water. Later, all non steam equipped units changed to class ARS16 No.'s 5400 to 5471. All steam equipped units changed to class ARS16s No.'s 5537 to 5584. The extra height on the short hood was to accommodate the large Vapor steam heat unit that the PRR ordered. >> Walt and all, the extra room was for the combination of steam heat generator and dynamic brakes. << The RS1 (class AS-10ams & AS-10as). One additional point on the RS3's all but the 8914 delivered with trainphone equipment.>> Walt is this a test or what, check you research there were at least 20 units that never had train phone induction systems (antenna mast). I would recommend that anyone wishing to know more on the PRR's RS units purchase the PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD Diesel Locomotive Pictorial Volume 1 by the late John D. Hahn, Jr. Published by Withers Publishing. I hope this clears up the record. <> Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 23:32:44 -0500 From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR GP-7 8512 --------------F1781F45DFCA18532DB87826 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howdy All: Sorry about that - I only checked my Classification and Description of Locomotives and Tenders June 2, 1952. The list includes only the ES-15m and ES-15ms - they are listed without dynamic brakes. PRR continued to order and EMD continued to deliver GP7's into 1953. Just a thought - since the GP7 was not regularly assigned to road duties ( isn't that what all the new F7's where for), would they have been assigned to the same kind of service (yard and locals) or did they get some for helper service - but not assign an additional class, like the F3's of class EF-15 / EH-15. From my information ( the above listed Classification) all F3's & F7's (class EF-15a) had dynamic brakes (including the FP7's). They (the GP7's) all ended in the same classification (ERS15) and so I generalized and didn't think (!) to go any further. I didn't double check all my sources. I'll go stand in the corner now! cos wsbcos.com Derrick J Brashear wrote: > On Sun, 3 Jan 1999, Wayne S. Betty wrote: > > > Correct - no original PRR GP7 had dynamic brakes. > > If by original, you mean the first batch they got, yes (the 8797-8806 > batch); Some of the next batch had them (8503-8508) as well as 8554-8582. > > Note the photos in PDY-1, 69, 89, 100, PDY-5 p 32, etc... > > > RamblingReck@postoffice.worldnet.att.net wrote: > > > > > The info I've been able to find suggests that no PRR GP-7's were built > > > with dynamics. Is this correct? Does anyone know if Pennsy added > > > dynamics? Are there any photos available? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on > special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". --------------F1781F45DFCA18532DB87826 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howdy All:
Sorry about that - I only checked my Classification and Description of Locomotives and Tenders June 2, 1952.   The list includes only the ES-15m and ES-15ms - they are listed without dynamic brakes.  PRR continued to order and EMD continued to deliver GP7's into 1953.
Just a thought - since the GP7 was not regularly assigned to road duties ( isn't that  what all the new F7's where for),  would they have been  assigned to the same kind of service (yard and locals) or did they get some for helper service - but not assign an additional class, like the F3's of class EF-15 / EH-15.  From my information ( the above listed Classification) all F3's & F7's (class EF-15a) had dynamic brakes (including the FP7's).  They (the GP7's) all ended in the same classification (ERS15) and so I generalized and didn't think (!) to go any further.
I didn't double check all my sources.   I'll go stand in the corner now!

cos
wsbcos.com
 
Derrick J Brashear wrote:

On Sun, 3 Jan 1999, Wayne S. Betty wrote:

> Correct - no original PRR GP7 had dynamic brakes.

If by original, you mean the first batch they got, yes (the 8797-8806
batch); Some of the next batch had them (8503-8508) as well as 8554-8582.

Note the photos in PDY-1, 69, 89, 100, PDY-5 p 32, etc...

> RamblingReck@postoffice.worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
> > The info I've been able to find suggests that no PRR GP-7's were built
> > with dynamics.  Is this correct?  Does anyone know if Pennsy added
> > dynamics?  Are there any photos available?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on
special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to
"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com".

  --------------F1781F45DFCA18532DB87826-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 07:08:13 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Class GS gons (Bowser) in MW service In a message dated 1/2/99 10:37:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, abbuchan@familyconnect.net writes: > > Within the past few days somebody posted a message regarding painting a > Bowser class GS gon in yellow w/ black CK logo for MW service. > That was me -- but that was also an inside joke. My operators know that if I've got a model car that's a real clunker, and won't track, I paint it yellow and put it into my track gang train. I wasn't serious about my repaint comment, but we have to question my sanity in acquiring a GS for a 1968 layout anyway. > Be careful here if you want to be perfectly prototypical. Ken McCorry, Paul > Backenstose and I have been collaborating on developing an all time list of > PRR non-revenue MW equipment for several years now. The list is incomplete > but growing all the time, one of these days it will be to the point of > completion that it can be published. As far as I can determine from a quick > scan of the list there are no class GS gons on the incomplete roster. If > there is any information out there on class GS gons in MW service please > advise. Thanx. > Checked my database, and I have no indication of GS's in MW service either. > Most all gons in MW service (1940s to the end) were classes GR, GRA, G-22 > and G-26. The later being modified as panelized turnout carriers. > My material DOES support the fact that G22's went to MW. Also, the panel turnout carriers were G26L. But were these rebuilt from G26C 65' mill gon rebuilds, or (less likely) from other surviving G26 subclasses? Another question -- sometime in the years of PK markings (1961-1968), passenger car conversions went from black roof to silver roof. Was there a coherent pattern here, or is this just some of the wonderful genetic drift characteristic of MoW paint jobs? For example, in my pix, between 492051-492371, all the heavyweight roofs are black. Between 492373-493004, they can be black or silver. From 493087-493963, they're all silver. Is this true in your research, too? Still another question -- some years ago, Bob Reid did a listing of Pullman cars and the MW number that each had assumed when it was converted. Was Bob's list on-target? Are you working with a similar list? Just curious, as heavyweight Pullmans seem to fascinate all -- even in a coat of yellow paint. Many thanks for the info you offered, and good luck with organizing MW data. Til the next train out, Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) Operating the Panhandle Route And Remembering PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] 1999 Convention & Potential Conflict Date: Mon, 4 Jan 99 06:25:24 -0500 From: Jerry On 1/3/99 10:59 PM, Bill Knepper (boxcar46@nfdc.net) wrote: >Of course you will be at the convention, and not watching a bunch of guys >running around a field chasing a funny shaped ball! I WILL be at the convention from the getgo on Friday...and will stay through Sunday. Just not sure how I'm going to handle the afternoon on Saturday. Depends on how well the convention program is AND how Penn State handles ticket sales. (I am a season ticket holder with four seats.) ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@dsop.com "Keystone Crossings" http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space available at http://www.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 05:41:47 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: Clipping the wings of (PRR's) Texas Eagle In a message dated 99-01-03 00:12:02 EST, dan@cwix.com writes: So it appears that this was an extremely short-lived PRR name train name, lasting perhaps four months. It would be interesting to know why the change was made -- perhaps confusion at St. Louis if, for >> < Over the weekend I had the enjoyment of visiting Ken McCorry's layout and receiving a personal tour (thanks again, Ken!). His layout is club-sized and he had modeled the PRR's Buffalo line circa 1962-68. He has now slid the timetable a little later and is modeling both PRR and PC on the line. What has always amazed me was that, besides modeling the Buffalo line from roughly Millersburg (Enola is staging) to just east of Buffalo, he includes many, many branch lines that are operational. So often we need to just stub end our branches as they meet the end of the layout. Ken is a master of design and found ways to keep these lines alive and hidden long enough to reach staging yards -- even visible in some cases. I'll probably miss one or two, but the layout includes the Shamokin Branch, Wilkes-Barre Branch, Elmira Branch, Bald Eagle Branch (currently not operational), and the Driftwood Secondary. His layout is so convoluted at first glance that it was hard for me to follow while visiting during an open house last spring with my two children in tow. Hence the reason for this visit: to unravel the layout and understand how it all fits together. The design makes tons of sense and I'm sure is a real joy for the 20 or so operators that gather once a month to run it. Ken is also on the verge of expansion. His new 24' by 32' addition will allow Keating Summit to rise even higher. Underneath, on the lower level, will be Harrisburg Passenger Station, freight yard, and locomotive facility. The Bald Eagle Branch will become active from the existing layout and will rejoin the main at a new rendering of Tyrone. A 9' Rockville Bridge will also be a highlight in the new area. If you get a chance, visit during an open house. Need more enticement? Watch for the April 1999 Model Railroader. Ken tells me the layout will be featured and should include the cover shot. Way to go Ken --- and the army of folks who help make this a wonderful layout! See http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layouts/mccorry.html ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CBlood59@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 09:42:38 EST Subject: [PRR] How do I get off this list? Hello, I've lost the "welcome to the list" message. Will someone please tell me how to un-subscribe? Curt Blood ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 06:32:53 -0800 From: "Eugene E. Deimling" Subject: [PRR] H6sb Retirement About a month ago I asked a question about when H6sb ended their careers. While I don't have the definitive word, I did find one reference which I though I might share with the forum. According to Bill Caoroso, author of "Pennsylvania Railroads's Elmira Branch", the last two H6sb engines used on this branch operated until 1955. The last two of this class used on the Marion Branch were #3110 and 2846. Gene Deimling ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 10:21:52 EST Subject: [PRR] January must be PRR month Hey Yuze Gize, January must be Pennsy month in the magazines. I just got my January copy of Mainline Modeler and there is an excellent article on the PRR's Wilmington, DE passenger station by Earl T. Hackett. Some beautiful scale drawings and detail photo's. Then later this month as Model Railroading is late in hitting the news stands there will be another Pennsy article. It will be on the PRR X-45 50' single door box car. We must be in heaven 'cause I'm starting to see Keystones everywhere. 3^) Greg Martin Keep 'um Polished ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] How do I get off this list? Date: Mon, 4 Jan 99 11:14:37 -0500 From: Jerry On 1/4/99 9:42 AM, CBlood59@aol.com (CBlood59@aol.com) wrote: >I've lost the "welcome to the list" message. Will someone please tell me how >to un-subscribe? Send "unsubscribe prr-talk" to "listserv@dsop.com". >... >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". The footer of every message contains the above. The HELP file that results contains the instructions. For advanced users, most e-mail clients allow you to view the "long headers" of a message. Simple systems, like AOL, hide this to make things "easier" for the user. However, the long headers contain the following line: >List-Unsubscribe: I think I have sufficiently covered this subject for today! ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Shadowlining From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 99 10:33:54 -0500 Some time ago I recall a conversation (perhaps on this list) in which mention was made of someone manufacturing decals for shadowlining HO passenger cars. Does anyone know who this might be? Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Annual Sponsorship Message Date: Mon, 4 Jan 99 10:35:27 -0500 From: Jerry Once a year I send out a message about the services provided by my domains and how it is funded. My business, Desktop Solutions, owns the domains DSOP.COM and PENNSYRR.COM. Through these are served "Keystone Crossings" and a few other PRR-related web sites, and the lists PRR-Talk, PRRMO, PRR2000, Conrail-Talk, and Reading-Talk. My company absorbs a portion of the costs of maintaining a dedicated internet presence and expects to make up the rest (about 80%) from sponsorship opportunities. In 1998, we ran about as near to a break-even basis as is possible...which is all I ask for! Also during 1998, I entered the model railroad business as a division of Desktop Solutions. You know this business as "Merchandise Service". Proceeds through this business go toward online expansion and the like (more hard drives, faster connections, fault-tolerant spares, etc.). Now, how do I make up the other 80%? I have a sponsorship page that provides the nitty gritty at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/support.html 1. I do accept outright donations. Consider an annual donation akin to a magazine subscription. 2. Banner advertising -- For each page served from the PENNSYRR.COM, a random ad is pulled from the pool of ad sponsors and appears at the top of the page. 3. Web hosting -- Any business may be served from the DSOP.COM domain or their own domain, using our server. PRR-related businesses may be served from the PENNSYRR.COM domain and will be included in the banner ad pool at no additional cost. 4. List sponsorship -- Sponsoring a list gets the business the 2-3 line text message that appears in the footer of every message. (Lists that are not sponsored will have a "Merchandise Service" message by default.) There it is. Please contact me direct for more information if you'd like to help out. I appreciate the support. Special thanks to these long-time supporters: Digital Image Works and Union Station Products. Also to those list members who have referred businesses to us for web hosting. Thank you! ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:34:38 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] ECW B60 (was MS60 Mail Storage Cars) Sorry to chime in so late, just got back to tacomputerr on which I can actually write answers! >On 12/28/98 1:51 PM, Terry Link (trlink@netcom.ca) wrote: > >>The old Bethlehem Car Works B60 plastic kit is now available from Eastern >>Car Works. Kit #1010. Walthers shows them in stock at $35.00 retail. Jerry asked: >Is that a complete kit? Or sans trucks, wheelsets, couplers, etc.? >Is it painted/lettered or unpainted? as others have said...with trucks, (although I think the casting is drilled lopsided with the axle holes too low on one side of one truck), wheels (which are often very poor quality and should be replaced with kadee or other quality metal wheels) w/o couplers, w/o decals, unpainted. I have both the old BCW and new ECW, and the BCW kit was by far better, in that it included very nice underbody detail and brake rigging which has been left out of the ECW kit. I was annoyed to find that the ECW kit cost more, with less detail and no decals, and flawed trucks. Both kits had seriously warped sides, although it appears the sides are now in styrene. I solved this with interior bracing on my 1st kit. Unlike the BCW M70b, there are no starter divots for the hand rail holes, so you just get to aim wherever. Still, very nice castings and it makes up into a quality car for a lot less than brass. Just add some details and weight and it looks/runs very very nicely! And, as has bween said...you need a FLEET of the suckers! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Robert Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] RESULTS: Passenger Car Survey Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:21:47 -0500 > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Jerry > Sent: Saturday, December 26, 1998 9:08 PM > To: PRR-Talk > Subject: [PRR] RESULTS: Passenger Car Survey > > > The third in our series of surveys on "PRR-Talk" dealt with passenger > cars (including head end equipment). There were 17 respondents of 280+ > subscribers. Here are the results. Where a request was made and a > solution is already available, I have made a notation in ALL CAPS. > > The winner, no contest, was the R50B reefer. Come on, someone make us a > fleet! > > HO SCALE: > > R50b - 6 votes > * Red Caboose quality/price point desired > * need a fleet of these! > * need almost as many as X29's > REA 50 ft steel express reefer -- 1 vote > * either riveted or welded Is this a 6100 series steel reefer? If so, it's on Branchline's list of future kits... (see http://www.branchline-trains.com/feature.htm) > BM85a -- 1 vote snip... > "Other Needs" notes: > * It would be nice if Eastern Car Works did an older heavyweight core it > that would be adaptable to the car sides concept that works so well for > the later pre-war and post-war cars. I can only hope that Branchline will come through with these.... > > * Parts to modify Bachmann P-70 ,PB-70,D-78 cars (for Bachmann cars only) > mostly the P-70 though. Hey Bachmann...sell your trucks separate! ya hear? I'll second this one! Rob > > > ----------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton jerry@dsop.com > "Keystone Crossings" http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > Web space available at http://www.pennsyrr.com > ----------------------------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on > special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Robert Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] MO tower Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:10:33 -0500 When I was in Cresson during the Altoona Railfest last year ('98) there was a sign on the side of the PRR N5c they have there that showed the status of the towns fund raising efforts. It showed their goal and where they were currently. They showed their ultimate goal as rebuilding MO... Even before Conrail tore down the tower, the locals there said that it was too far gone to move and that they were planning on building a replica in their train watching park whenever they can raise the funds. If someone can find out more about the project (like their current fund raising status and where to send donations,) maybe people on the list can help out! Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of RICHARD > ADER > Sent: Sunday, December 27, 1998 12:43 PM > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] MO tower > > > Hey gang, > Just had a wild idea that I shared with a friend > and we feel it worthy of mentioning. > Didn't the town of Cresson install a foundation/slab by the railfan area > in preparation for MO to be relocated for > preservation? Even though MO was structurally poor and had to be > destroyed > what is preventing it from being built anew? > If we as a group each put up 25.00 X 280 > (list members. Is that right Jerry?) would > definately cover materials if not the > entire construction costs. Considering donatins from local > establishments, it is not a far > fetched or unattainable endeavor. All > we would be doing is replacing a rotted > structure with a new one. I'm sure someone got > drawings and measurements for modeling purposes so lets model it 12" to > the foot > scale. (Not guage. haha) > Any takers? > Rich > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on > special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Fw: PRR Block Limit Stations in the 1920's Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 12:07:44 -0500 (EST) Al, many thanks for your very extensive email. I'm not ignoring it by not including parts of it ... it simply does not need much commenting on. > department in the field, Operations Planning at System, Employe and Labor > Relations Department at system (Note that PRR in the 1960s spelled Employe > with one "E", acceptable but not common) Yes, I found that most curious myself. I wonder if someone in PRR was trying to emphasize maleness by using this form?! The word is from the French, of course, and has an accent on the last "e" in "employe". Generally (for some reason lost to history), English has accepted French words in their feminine form, which is how the more common "employee" came to be. That form has the accent on the same e as the male form, i.e., on the second-last. > >And as you know, many executives today, particularly it seems on railroads, > >show precious little concern. > I agree again and always have - and that's why in my humble opinion this > country is going to hell in a hand basket. However, I would not just target > the railroads. Just for clarity, neither was I. This is the down side of large companies in general, be it Big Oil, Big Steel, the Big Three [auto], HMOs, Big Banks, or whoever. > As far as I'm concerned the Health Care Industry, especially > Allegheny in Philadelphia has just about topped everyone. What those > executives did in my opinion borders on criminal. Frankly I hope they swing. I have a brother-in-law-in-law living through this quite directly. Given the (generally Federal) research funds that "disappeared" to keep the operation running, these guys may be facing Federal charges real soon. But we're way off topic. :-) > >Anyway, enough polemics for one day. > Your right - enough polemics = debate, discussion, contention, row, > argument, quarrel, altercation, feud or what ever level your at ----ACTUALLY > FOR THE YEAR. [I was being intentionally excessive in choice of words, for purposes of sarcasm. I hope no offense was taken.] -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Robert Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR weight/scale cars Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 12:48:21 -0500 I haven't found any PRR scale test car sets yet... I have a friend who runs a small decal business who already makes a few scale test car sets (for Erie-Lackawanna...) who says he'll be glad to produce a set if I can get him some good photos to work from. If anyone on the list has some photos that clearly show the lettering that I can borrow to give to him to work from I'd appreciate it! Thanks, Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Greg > Stone > Sent: Sunday, January 03, 1999 3:45 PM > To: PRR talk > Subject: [PRR] PRR weight/scale cars > > > Does anyone no of a decal or transfer company that produces > lettering for a > wieght/ scale car? > Greg Stone > PRRT&HS member > interested in any information or photos on the Renovo Yards > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on > special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Robert Schoenberg" Subject: [PRR] Branchline trains 50' box car kits.... Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:31:53 -0500 Hi all, Well the Branchine cars still aren't out yet but their page explains why... Also on their page is a photo of a production PRR painted carbody. (X44) Looks great to me! Hopefully they'll be out soon! http://www.branchline-trains.com/50'aar.htm Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 14:35:06 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR weight/scale cars On Mon, 4 Jan 1999, Robert Schoenberg wrote: > I haven't found any PRR scale test car sets yet... I have a friend who runs > a small decal business who already makes a few scale test car sets (for > Erie-Lackawanna...) who says he'll be glad to produce a set if I can get > him some good photos to work from. If anyone on the list has some photos > that clearly show the lettering that I can borrow to give to him to work > from I'd appreciate it! I assume what's in Color Guide 2 (p117-118) is not complete enough? -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alan Buchan" Subject: Re: [PRR] S Cars Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:50:52 -0500 snip. >There was an alternate S-mark on a few covered hoppers -- a black S on a >solid yellow rectangle. I don't know the history of this alternate, but an example is on >H30 498053 (p 113 of PRR Color Guide 2). Rick, Thanks for pointing that out. I'm not sure of this alternate symbol either. I just attribute it to the shennagans of the unstandard practices of the Standard Railroad of the World. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alan Buchan" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR Leonard Avenue Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:46:16 -0500 -Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 3:08 PM Subject: PRR Leonard Avenue >Would you have an idea what role the PRR material facility at Leonard Avenue >in Columbus Ohio might have played in PRR days? This building and yard lay >just east of St. Clair Avenue shops on the north side of the PRR main, and was >switched trailing point west. Sorry Rick I can't help on this one. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] New Columnist at KC: Jim Six Date: Mon, 4 Jan 99 15:44:29 -0500 From: Jerry Following list members' prompting, I have invited recent subscriber Jim Six to become a "columnist" for "Keystone Crossings". Jim will be documenting and photographing his PRR modeling efforts. As each car is done, the text and images will be posted to the Modeling section of "KC" and announced to this list. Stay tuned for the first installment. Welcome aboard, Jim! ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:40:18 EST Subject: [PRR] Erik Porch Erik, you signed the Keystone Crossings guest book, but didn't leave an address - are you on here ? Dick Ross ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] MO tower Date: Mon, 4 Jan 99 14:29:42 -0500 From: Jerry On 1/4/99 1:10 PM, Robert Schoenberg (robs@actel.com) wrote: >When I was in Cresson during the Altoona Railfest last year ('98) there was >a sign on the side of the PRR N5c they have there that showed the status of >the towns fund raising efforts. It showed their goal and where they were >currently. They showed their ultimate goal as rebuilding MO... Even >before Conrail tore down the tower, the locals there said that it was too >far gone to move and that they were planning on building a replica in their >train watching park whenever they can raise the funds. If someone can find >out more about the project (like their current fund raising status and where >to send donations,) maybe people on the list can help out! Or maybe PENNSYRR.COM can provide them with an official project status page on the Internet? Rob, if you or anyone tracks them down, point them to me, please! ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:08:11 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] S Cars In a message dated 1/2/99 10:37:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, abbuchan@familyconnect.net writes: > Somebody posted a message within the last day asking about PRR cars with the > white "S" inside the white box. > Terry Stuart asked if it wasn't wrong on his Bowser kit. > First of all it was a yellow "S" inside a yellow box. The Bowser printing of > this on their X31A and the Middle Division decal sheet that includes this > symbol in white is incorrect. Also because of fading, light conditions, and > color shift in film, pictures of "S-cars" could give the impression that the > symbol was a dirty or off white. > > The symbol was applied to cars under the control of the material and stores > department that were dedicated to move company material around the system. > The cars included class X-29 and X31A box cars for all sorts of materials, H- > 30 cover hoppers for sand, and F45B flat cars for wheels. The cars were > typically painted freight car red, although some of the sand cars were > painted yellow. Tank cars (gray with black lettering in later years) were > also used to ship oil but they did not display the S symbol. All cars in > these types service were classified as non-revenue and were numbered within > the non-revenue block of car numbers > > Although a lot of material was shipped directly to the point of use by > manufacturers much of it was shipped to central warehouses and distributed > from there as required. The "S-cars" were moved from point to point in > revenue freight trains. In the mid 1950s the PRR had over 175,000 line items, > valued at over $70 million stored in over 130 storehouses, 100 "working > stocks" and 320 material yards and minor storage points. > I second all the above. There was an alternate S-mark on a few covered hoppers -- a black S on a solid yellow rectangle. I don't know the history of this alternate, but an example is on H30 498053 (p 113 of PRR Color Guide 2). The "standard" scheme is well-represented by X29 499668 (P110 of CG1). I believe that these S-car markings are only found on PK cars, so are in the years 1961-1968. Also, I'm shocked that not one individual on this list has stooped to use some version of "see that S-car go." Maybe that's 'cause this isn't snail mail . Til the next train out, Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) Operating the Panhandle Route And Remembering PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:08:13 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR Leonard Avenue In a message dated 1/2/99 10:37:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, abbuchan@familyconnect.net writes: > Although a lot of material was shipped directly to the point of use by > manufacturers much of it was shipped to central warehouses and distributed > from there as required. The "S-cars" were moved from point to point in > revenue freight trains. In the mid 1950s the PRR had over 175,000 line items, > valued at over $70 million stored in over 130 storehouses, 100 "working > stocks" and 320 material yards and minor storage points. > Al, Would you have an idea what role the PRR material facility at Leonard Avenue in Columbus Ohio might have played in PRR days? This building and yard lay just east of St. Clair Avenue shops on the north side of the PRR main, and was switched trailing point west. Til the next train out, Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) Operating the Panhandle Route And Remembering PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Red Caboose on special during January. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:08:07 EST Subject: [PRR] Monon, PRR, IUS in Indianapolis (corrections) In a previous posting dealing with Indianapolis railroads, I implied that the Monon's terminal facilities were closer to downtown than Belt Junction. Referring to the Dolzalls' book Monon, The Hoosier Line, I can correct that. In 1896 the LNA&C (Louisville New Albany & Chicago, predecessor to the Monon) built new yards, roundhouse, and turntable AT Belt Junction. You can see a color photo of the roundhouse and a Loewy-design passenger-painted Monon F in 1959 on p. 184 of the above book. BTW, the structure color scheme appears to be a medium gray, possibly with white trim (check me on this, Monon fans). The year 1959 is significant because it's the last year Monon varnish ran into Indianapolis. Three more bits of info from Monon, The Hoosier Line: 1) The LNA&C (Monon) was extended from Belt Junction south to Massachusetts Avenue interlocking in 1888. This gave direct interchange to the Lake Erie &Western (Nickel Plate after 1922?) and the Cleveland Cincinnati Chicago & Indianapolis (later part of the Big Four/NYC). 2) The Pennsy's Vincennes Branch was originally a Monon predecessor's project to connect Gosport with Indy. Before W.W.I the PRR operated passenger trains from Indianapolis down to Gosport, and the LNA&C continued them south to Orleans and then down the branch to French Lick. The resort there (French Lick Springs) long featured a casino, which was a major passenger traffic generator for the Monon. 3) The Indianapolis Union Station elevation project was in the 1920's. I believe this makes it slightly later than similar projects in Dayton and elsewhere, but explains the "early art-deco" feel of the NYC-style train shed at IUS. IIRC, the first phase of art deco was set off by archaeological discoveries in Egypt circa 1925-27. This led to a craze (in US definitely. Europe too?) for all things Egyptian according to my late mother. I wish I knew enough about art and architecture to know what I'm talking about here. BTW, the Dolzalls' book includes photos by Louisville railfan photographers Jack Fravert and Tom Smart. Why am I not surprised? Til th