Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 00:35:43 -0500 From: "J. R. N. Witmer" Subject: [PRR] Track pans Try to get a copy of FRM Milepost Volume 11, number 1, February 1993. It contains an article by James Alexander, Jr. on the Wilmore track pans. It contains a lot of information about track pans in general, including some pretty good pictures. Captain Jack ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 08:52:57 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] Track Pans & Scooping Water Karl Kantola told me that hoboes riding NY Central trains in winter were often drenched and frozen solid while hanging onto the rear of tenders. If the lead end of the car behind had no door, or a locked door, they were trapped, and too cold to manage climbing up over the tender to the cab. He also mentioned redesigning the scoops and venting for higher speeds - one problem with earlier designs was that side spray sometimes shattered the glass windows of passing trains. Steve Bartlett Huber25@aol.com wrote: > He related as how hobos would be allowed to sleep on the tender decks ...... > That's not even mentioning the sometimes drenching they > would get......... > Roger > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 98 10:13:46 CST Subject: Re: [PRR] water scoops, water troughs Hi, all, >Cisterns or water tanks for mainline trains that >stopped -- primarily freight trains -- were at Perdix/Cove and Longfellow >(perhaps elsewhere, too, but those two are for sure). A minor addition to the above -- the coaling wharf at Denholm had standpipes for all tracks served, with twin water tanks to supply them. Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrew Harmantas" Subject: Re: [PRR] Track Pans & Scooping Water Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 07:22:26 PST Then there was another scoop story about the fireboy that didn't actuate the lift mechanism on the scoop in time, and the scoop tore up several hundred yards of track before they could stop. That must've been quite a ride. Andrew Harmantas, modeling RR's that scooped, all except the NYC, that is. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:18:26 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] USRA BOX CARS Barry and All, Hold back, the Tichy car while beautifully detailed it si no the Pennsy rebuild you are looking for. It is a beautiful reproduction of the P McKY rebuilt cars. The NYC received some cars to as I recall. There is a very well done article in Mainline Modeler of the entire program. Just because Tichy says it's so, don't make it so, they are no different from Red Caboose, I do not begrudge either of the practice. Pennsy's rebuilt cars were taller and wider than the NYC design but of course they happened at two different times also. I have an article forthcoming on the X-26 rebuilds and they are not all that difficult to reproduce in HO Scale. My article will also be the basis for the Santa Fe Rebuilt cars and I will follow up with an article of the Santa Fe cars. They seemed to show up a lot system wide but particularly apparent on the Elmira Branch (see Carroso's book). Greg Martin In a message BPX29@aol.com writes: << Here's a question for the freight car fan: is Tichy's rebuilt USRA box car (Pennsy class X26 in the original form) usable as a Pennsy car? >> Snip <> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:44:49 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Erie Built dynamic brakes? In a message dated 11/30/98 19:33:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, Bobspf@aol.com writes: << Which if any of Pennsy passenger units had dynamic brakes? I never thought about it before now but I dont believe any of the E-units did, so it raises the question about passenger units in general. >> PA's were retro fitted with dynamics when transferred to freight service. The same may have been done to the Erie builts which were quickly moved to freight service. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:42:45 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] USRA BOX CARS The Tichy rebuilt USRA maybe a PRR X26C these were the first rebuild of the X26 (USRA) cars. I have not looked at the Tichy rebuild in some time and do not recall off hand if it is an exact match for the X26C. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:17:44 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Toledo Divison and coaling towers In a message dated 11/30/98 8:38:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, jer@smellycat.com writes: > Yes, the coaling tower north of I-80 is a former PRR tower. Conrail's > Lordstown Secondary (former E&A Branch) runs past it. To the east of > the tower were the ROW's of the B&O (origninal P&W main) and Erie. > Somewhere in there the Lake Erie & Eastern connected with the PRR, but > I don't know if it was north or south of the tower. On the far side of > the river is the current B&O main. I'm not sure if the Youngstown & > Northern got up this far or not. There have been a couple of good shots > of that coaling tower in Railpace that I can recall, one with the Conrail > OCS train(!) passing it, and another with an Ohio Central train. > I could be in the wrong pew, but this sounds like a tower I shot at Girard Yard outside Youngstown. I wish I had visited before it was all rust-belted; must have been magnificent. Til the next train out, Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) Operating the Panhandle Route And Remembering PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Long one...Magazine drawing list From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 98 09:22:07 -0500 'thought of more: P5, O1 plans in MR in the 50s and of course MR published plans for a "T5" in their first issue ;-) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Long one...Magazine drawing list From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 98 09:19:32 -0500 Hank, What a wonderful idea! Your list is a keeper. I certainly hope and expect that others will augment it. Off the top of my head (I'm in my office and not near my library at home) I know MR published plans for COURAGEOUS (parlor-loung-restaurant car) some time in the 60s, and for an H25, a B60 and a BM70x some time in the 50s. The "x" is because I don't remember which subclass it was. The two head end cars were published together in the same issue. They were not identified other than "PRR Head End Cars". If I remember, I will look it up when I get home. (Unless someone beats me to the punch and fills in the blanks today). Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:26:57 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] ETT's Hi Ron, That seems a little high for an employee TT. I have purchased them in the $8-15 range. Maybe I have found dealers that dont know the value of the timetables but it seems a little on the high side. Randy Ron Dugas on 12/01/98 03:59:18 PM To: PRR-Talk cc: (bcc: Randy Williamson/Marathon) Subject: [PRR] ETT's Hi All, Have the oppurtunity to purchase a Pittsburgh Division ETT for $30. Been having a devil of a time finding one for my era/locale and this is the first one in my '39-'59 span that I've seen . Is $30 dollars about what these usually go for? Thanks again, Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 13:49:13 -0800 From: Ron Dugas Subject: Re: [PRR] Water troughs Hi All, Thanks to Dan, Derrick and Jerry, for supplying track pan locations for the Pittsburgh Division. Two locations: one near Latrobe (too far west for my modeling) and one at Wilmore (between Lilly and South Fork, bingo!). Looks like I'll have to model them now. So. Any pic references, anyone? Any idea what type of support facilities (water tanks, heating plant, etc...) were at Wilmore? Wilmore doesn't even appear on most of my maps. Any other PRR facilities at this location? Thanks in advance, Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 22:36:41 -0800 From: Ron Dugas Subject: [PRR] Pittsburgh Division Stations? Hi All, I'm looking for references to articles and photos covering the stations and interlockings between Altoona and West Johnstown. Especially interested in the smaller locales not frequently mentioned: Lilly, Portage, Summerhill, Wilmore, South Fork, Mineral Point?, Etc... I have been to Marc's site repeatedly and am devouring his interlocking diagrams voraciously. Thanks in advance, Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 22:28:19 -0800 From: Ron Dugas Subject: [PRR] Wilmore, Pa. Track Pans Hi Capt. Jack, All, What a list!; the answer to my request for info was posted before my request even made it to the list: "FRM Milepost Volume 11, number 1, February 1993. It contains an article by James Alexander, Jr. on the Wilmore track pans." I'm not familiar with this mag. What is "FRM Milepost" and where can I get a copy of this issue? It was Dan, I believe, that described the model track pans with the "blue" water. I'd agree that blue would probably be too idyllic. Any suggestions for a color that would look realistic? Probably kind of dark with a shiny top surface? In N-Scale I think I'll pass on modeling the overspray. Here's a wild thought: How about a cylinder of compressed water that sprays out through vents on the top of the tender when actuated by devices at the beginning and end of the pans? Lionel would be proud! Would, no doubt, find out why track pans didn't (I think) exist in 3rd rail territory! 8) Thanks and later, Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 13:59:18 -0800 From: Ron Dugas Subject: [PRR] ETT's Hi All, Have the oppurtunity to purchase a Pittsburgh Division ETT for $30. Been having a devil of a time finding one for my era/locale and this is the first one in my '39-'59 span that I've seen . Is $30 dollars about what these usually go for? Thanks again, Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TodEngine@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:24:20 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Wheatland Coaling Tower In a message dated 98-11-30 23:14:27 EST, you write: > The complex houses Yourga Trucking and Bi-State Storage. A long curved > spur goes into the complex off a switch just south of the Ohio Street > crossing (probably not original track--Al, can you confirm?) Its a new track, just put in within the last year or so. Rick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 12:24:37 -0600 From: Andy Cich Subject: Re: [PRR] Long one...Magazine drawing list You can add M-70 Postal Car page 81 1-78 MR Thanks for a very helpful list. I have to find some backissues now. Andy C. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Water troughs Date: Tue, 1 Dec 98 14:53:29 -0500 From: Jerry On 12/1/98 4:49 PM, Ron Dugas (rond@efn.org) wrote: >Thanks to Dan, Derrick and Jerry, for supplying track pan locations for >the Pittsburgh Division. Two locations: one near Latrobe (too far west >for my modeling) and one at Wilmore (between Lilly and South Fork, >bingo!). Looks like I'll have to model them now. So. Any pic references, >anyone? >Any idea what type of support facilities (water tanks, heating plant, >etc...) were at Wilmore? Wilmore doesn't even appear on most of my maps. >Any other PRR facilities at this location? Definitely one or more cisterns nearby. Some photos in Triumph I. As for ideas for modeling the area, South Fork offers a junction and also a flyover. Some interesting possibilities. Again, see Triumph I. Includes photos and track charts. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Wilmore, Pa. Track Pans Date: Tue, 1 Dec 98 14:27:05 -0500 From: Jerry On 12/2/98 1:28 AM, Ron Dugas (rond@efn.org) wrote: >I'm not familiar with this mag. What is "FRM Milepost" and where can I >get a copy of this issue? The "Milepost" is the quarterly newsletter (well done, I might add) of the Friends of the Railroad Museum (FRM) of the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania in Strasburg, Pa. With an annual contribution of only $25, you'll get the "Milepost" plus free admission for yourself, your spouse, your children, and your children's grandparents any time you visit the museum. The "Milepost" alone is probably worth the fee! As for back issues, contact the museum. They might be able to fix you up. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 98 16:07:01 CST Subject: Re: [PRR] Water troughs Hi, all, >...and one at Wilmore (between Lilly and South Fork, >bingo!). Looks like I'll have to model them now. So. Any pic references, >anyone? >Any idea what type of support facilities (water tanks, heating plant, >etc...) were at Wilmore? Wilmore doesn't even appear on most of my maps. >Any other PRR facilities at this location? In spite of all the warts, etc. in TRIUMPH I, it does have good photos, including a number of track-pans. The PRR appeared to have a standard design for a power plant that they used at track pans. I kitbashed one for my Denholm coaling wharf model using the Walthers Vulcan foundry. Check out photos of this standard power plant in TRIUMPH I - it was used, for example, at the east portals of the tunnels at Gallitzen for powering the exhaust fans. I may have some photos of this building on my layout posted on the web soon - I'll mention it if this happens. > >Thanks in advance, > >Ron. > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on >special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:59:20 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Pittsburgh ETT correction. Hi Ron, For an early 40's ETT $30.00 isnt really a bad price. I guess it depends on how much you want the TT. I have paid extra money for some PRR memorbilia but it was something that I wanted so I payed the extra money to get it. I know I have one Pittsburgh ETT from 1960 but could not say if I had another one since I am at work as I write this. Randy Williamson Ron Dugas on 12/01/98 01:35:00 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com cc: (bcc: Randy Williamson/Marathon) Subject: [PRR] Pittsburgh ETT correction. Hi All, Was reminded that I didn't give the date of the ETT: Early 40's, seller wasn't specific about year. Probably in pretty good condition as seller usually discounts ones that are distressed and sells them "as is". So far respondents feel $30 is kinda high, but I've not seen any others. Does anyone have any for this are/locale that they would part with? Thanks again, Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] ETT's Date: Tue, 1 Dec 98 14:41:52 -0500 From: Jerry On 12/1/98 1:26 PM, Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com (Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com) wrote: > That seems a little high for an employee TT. I have purchased them in >the $8-15 range. Maybe I have found dealers that dont know the value of >the timetables but it seems a little on the high side. I agree with the above stated range. However, certain divisions and certain years are very hard to come by. I'd pay $25 for a Sept. 26, 1954 Philadelphia Division ETT. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:35:00 -0800 (PST) From: Ron Dugas Subject: [PRR] Pittsburgh ETT correction. Hi All, Was reminded that I didn't give the date of the ETT: Early 40's, seller wasn't specific about year. Probably in pretty good condition as seller usually discounts ones that are distressed and sells them "as is". So far respondents feel $30 is kinda high, but I've not seen any others. Does anyone have any for this are/locale that they would part with? Thanks again, Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Water troughs Date: Tue, 1 Dec 98 15:12:23 -0500 From: Jerry On 12/1/98 5:07 PM, George Pierson (George.Pierson@trnty.edu) wrote: >In spite of all the warts, etc. in TRIUMPH I, it does have good photos, >including a number of track-pans. The PRR appeared to have a standard >design >for a power plant that they used at track pans. I kitbashed one for my >Denholm >coaling wharf model using the Walthers Vulcan foundry. Check out photos of >this standard power plant in TRIUMPH I - it was used, for example, at the >east >portals of the tunnels at Gallitzen for powering the exhaust fans. I may >have >some photos of this building on my layout posted on the web soon - I'll >mention >it if this happens. That's George's very polite way of saying "C'mon Jerry, scan the damn photos I sent you way back when and post 'em!" With apologies to both George and Hank Mummert, your layout photos will be posted real soon. I have yet to finish one last issue of The Pennsy that I borrowed from John Keel that has taken longer than anticipated (they are oversized). I will be finishing it tomorrow night and then on to the layout scans...and Hank's TrucTrain trailer photos. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Nixon" Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:31:57 EST5EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Water troughs Ron wrote: >Any idea what type of support facilities (water tanks, heating plant, >etc...) were at Wilmore? Wilmore doesn't even appear on most of my maps. >Any other PRR facilities at this location? I met someone recently who said his grandfather used to haul coal for the heaters so they wouldn't freeze in the winter. There also was a story somewhere I read about a load of potatoes getting put in one of the pans and the scoop picked up potatoes and caused somekind of a problem. Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: FarbLand@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:48:41 EST Subject: [PRR] URSA Box So i was wrong about the X26 car from a tichy kit, but I swear I can remember a Mailine Modeler article obout modeling one a year or so ago. I'm only 25 and my memory shouldn't be going this quick. Does anyone remeber the article I'm talking about? I haven't had time to look. Brian C ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:17:14 EST Subject: [PRR] LinesWest Fans Fest update, April 11 CL&N fantrip set Good morning, I just got off the phone with Tom McOwen, owner of the Turtle Creek Valley Ry. He's agreed to schedule an extended version of his 3 p.m. run over the CL&N on April 11 for attendees of the LinesWest Fans Fest at the regular fare of $10. If we can guarantee a larger group than I am willing to commit to (Read this as any group greater than 1), he is willing to do more such as a run down past the remnants of Underfill yard and the Pendleton Engine facility on the Oasis line. If there is strong enough response the original proposal that people are willing to pay in advance, this is a possibility. The dates of April 10 for the meet in Xenia and April 11 for the fan trip out of Mason are still tentative pending approval by the Greene County (Ohio) Historical Society Board at its next scheduled meeting Dec. 7 The Lines West Fans Fest is the first meet held exclusively for the discussion, study and celebration of the Pennsylvania Railroad Lines West of Pittsburgh and Erie. It will be held at the Greene County Historical Society's Carriage House Museum (pending the GCHS board's approval next Monday) on April 10, 1999. If approval is given and if participation exceeds minimum thresholds, I will be offering an advance registration package for $30 that includes preferential rates at a major chain hotel within walking distance of the museum, a Pennsylvania Lines cap and patch, a copy of "Next Stop, Xenia," a GCHS published book on railroads in Xenia and Greene County, Ohio. I have asked the Philadelphia Chapter of the PRRT&HS about offering its The Pennsylvania Railroad, It's Place in History 1846-1996, an excellent research guide and collection of essays edited by Dan Cupper, as part of the advance registration package. That, too, is to be discussed at an early December board meeting. Once the date is set, I'll begin active recruitment seminar presenters. Presentations on any germane subject, be it modeling, historical or modern-day activity involving Lines West, will be welcome. I'd definitely like to see displays or presentations by PRRMO, the GR&I Railroad Historical Society and the PRRT&HS. I'm also hoping to organize a Friday night or Saturday night reception at the recently opened replica of Xenia (XG) tower on the site of the PRR depots, service facilities and yards Like everything else, the prices are still tentative until some decisions are made. There will be a vendors area with a preference to be given to those producing and selling merchandise with a Pennsylvania Lines or general Pennsy focus. Any suggestions and feedback about programing, prices, timing, etc., is appreciated however I am not accepting advance registrations until all prices are final. See you in April ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 18:35:24 -0500 (EST) From: alcoman Subject: Re: [PRR] Water troughs The other problem for the warmer times of the year was FROGS, and NO not the steel kind either. I read somewhere that along the NYC Chicago Line between Buffalo and Syracuse that the scoops would pick up large numbers of the little buggers during the summer months and when they would get to the servicing facility there would literally be 100's of them in the tender. On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Bill Nixon wrote: > Ron wrote: > >Any idea what type of support facilities (water tanks, heating plant, > >etc...) were at Wilmore? Wilmore doesn't even appear on most of my maps. > >Any other PRR facilities at this location? > > I met someone recently who said his grandfather used to haul coal for > the heaters so they wouldn't freeze in the winter. > > There also was a story somewhere I read about a load of potatoes > getting put in one of the pans and the scoop picked up potatoes and > caused somekind of a problem. > Bill > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on > special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > William J. Enser Co-Net Admin - Tech Supp & Validations alcoman@bluemoon.net net.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Online System x2 & K56flex/V.90 Access www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network http://www.bluemoon.net mud.bluemoon.net 4000 - MoonMud bbs.bluemoon.net irc.bluemoon.net-ZUHnet Buffalo,NY IRC Server Home Page:http://alcoman.railfan.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:07:24 -0800 Subject: [PRR] K11 and K9, X29 From: staffsgtyork@juno.com Thanks to all for the reply on my inquiry. Been out of town, so my response has been delayed. About X29s-- 1. When did most of the rebuilds into X29G, F, etc, take place? I think mid fifties. 2. I model WW2 until '54: When do the "patch" panels repairing rust damage on the standard X29 show up? Were they repaired before the shadow keystone repainting? I plan on having dirty, rust patched circle keystones, with a few brand new shadow keystones appearing. I just don't know if the new paint was put over patched sides on the boxcars, or if they received "heavy repairs". 3. Anyone build the Gloorcraft X41A end door boxcar? SGT York (there is a great new book on Alvin C. York for any of you SPF's who love history). ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:30:28 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Long one...Magazine drawing list In a message dated 12/1/98 3:39:16 AM Central Standard Time, bubbles@visi.net writes: << this is a long one...What i'm doing here is listing model railroading magazine drawings that i mostly have...there is one on this list i don't have and have so noted it.Also i have listed a couple of articles on PRR equipment. >> Sorry to not have dates, but I don't have access to my old magazines right now and I know following have appeared: B70 MR 49 or 50 T1 Mainline Modeler I1 MR early 50's Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:37:34 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] ETT's In a message dated 12/1/98 1:01:16 PM Central Standard Time, Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com writes: << Hi Ron, That seems a little high for an employee TT. I have purchased them in the $8-15 range. Maybe I have found dealers that dont know the value of the timetables but it seems a little on the high side. >> Amen. I agree with Randy. About $15 seems top, depending on age and condition. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 23:29:36 -0500 (EST) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] drawing lists Hi again folks... I've gotten a large list from Carl Neustrand...this is for the MR stuff....More is coming in either here or to me. By all means i'm not just limiting these lists to just MR....RMC,Model Railroading and Mainline Modeler have good drawings too. Carl's list is similar to Mr. McCall's list but there are some differences. Here is the list for all..... Hello Hank, In 1992, Kalmbach published an "All-Time Index of Prototype Plans 1934-1992. These plans were almost all originally published in Model Railroading, but some have been published in other Kalmbach pubs, most notably the MR Cyclopedia, Vol I Steam Locomotives. The MR Cyc also has many of the drawings republished in it. The drawings are to various scales, not just to HO. Anyway, here is the PRR section on Locos and Cabins: Locomotives: Lima-Hamilton Transfer Oct 56 pg 40 BP20 Mar 61 pg 38 P5 jan 34 pg 7 DD1 Mar 71 pg 48 O1a Jan 34 pg 7 O1a May 54 pg 38 GG1 Oct 35 pg 266 GG1 Sep 54 pg 38 P5a May 54 pg 38 E2b Oct 68 pg 46 A3 Dec 52 pg 52 A5s Oct 73 pg 48 A5s Jan 74 pg 75 A3a Dec 52 pg 53 B4a Jul 68 pg 42 B6 MR Cyc 1 pg 32 C1 Jan 35 pg 12 I1s Feb 53 pg 46 N1s Nov 69 pg 48 H1 Feb 59 pg 40 H3 Feb 44 pg 78 H6sb Feb 61 pg 52 H6sb Jan 74 pg 76 H9 Dec 45 pg 550 H9s Sep 48 pg 632 R(H3) Nov 86 pg 102 L1s Jun 52 pg 34 D10 Mar 90 pg 86 D13c Mar 56 pg 38 D16sb Sep 40 pg 499 D3 Sep 44 (no page # given) E3 Mar 41 pg 160 E6 Mar 34 pg 10 E6 Sep 62 pg 52 E6 Sep 78 pg 92 T1 Oct 46 pg 662 G5s Jun 39 pg 308 G5s Nov 52 pg 50 K4 Jul 36 pg 186 K4 (plain & streamlined) Jul 43 pg 315 M1a Sep 38 pg 369 M1a Mar 68 pg 40 S2 Mar 48 pg (no page # given) F3 Nov 44 pg 496 M1 May 35 pg 128 Cabin Cars 22 foot Jan 36 pg 17 N5 Jan 36 pg 17 N5b Nov 68 pg 51 N6b Dec 42 pg 564 N8 Oct 61 pg 46 N8 Apr 82 pg 80 ND (4 or 8 wheel) Jul 52 pg 41 No model given, just 4 wheel Sep 60 pg 50 Don't be thrown by some of the page numbers as I believe Kalmbach originally numbered each volume consecutively instead of issue to issue. By the way, I don't have copies of all these issues, but I do happen to have a copy of the N5b drawing. It's a gem as it includes the train phone antennae. If you would like a copy send me a snail mail address and I'll send it to you. Have fun guys..... Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:51:44 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] K11 and K9, X29 In a message dated 12/1/98 7:49:03 PM Central Standard Time, staffsgtyork@juno.com writes: << . Anyone build the Gloorcraft X41A end door boxcar? >> Bought one in the silent auction at Kansas City. Have applied sanding sealer. I will use some Details West doors and Plastruct L-channel for the roof ribs to continue the move to make the car look all steel. Nice-fitting parts. Am looking forward to getting time to finish the kit for an unusual, distinctively Pennsy car. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:52:09 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Track Pans & Scooping Water From: padraice@juno.com (Patrick M Egan) If memory serves, B&O had some pans, too. Pat Egan (no web access) On Tue, 01 Dec 1998 07:22:26 PST "Andrew Harmantas" writes: >Then there was another scoop story about the fireboy that didn't >actuate >the lift mechanism on the scoop in time, and the scoop tore up several > >hundred yards of track before they could stop. That must've been >quite >a ride. > >Andrew Harmantas, modeling RR's that scooped, all except the NYC, that > >is. > > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on >special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:19:43 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Long one...Magazine drawing list From: padraice@juno.com (Patrick M Egan) > K-4 scratchbuilding articles 1949 MR (i have the third part 12-49) > anyone have the others? > You can get copies of the Thornburgh (?) scratchbuild a K4 article from MR. Just call them up on the 800 number in the front of MR, ask for the library, tell the nice lady what you want, and give her a credit card number. It was in 1949 and 1950. The price isn't bad, especially if there's something else you're after to increase the size of the order. You can Pat Egan (no web access) On Mon, 30 Nov 1998 23:53:20 -0500 (EST) bubbles@visi.net writes: > > Ok guys.... > this is a long one...What i'm doing here is listing model >railroading > magazine drawings that i mostly have...there is one on this list i > don't have and have so noted it.Also i have listed a couple of >articles >on PRR equipment. > > One reason I'm listing this is to help folks who have no idea what > drawings there are out there. As with many of you i would love to > have a Locomotive or Car encyclopedia for what i would like to >model > or for reference...but right now i can't. But i still feel they >are > both great for what a modeler needs for reference. But there are >times > also when you don't need all of it and only for one particular > engine or car....this is where having a certain drawing from a > magazine helps. Another reason for this list is that perhaps with >my > start, all of us can add to it and after say a week or so we all > will have a more complete list of what is out there and then it >can > be printed out for reference. While this started out as a list of >only > freight cars due to a question posted here...i decided to expand >it > to include cabin & passenger cars and locomotives....I left any >structures > out....only equipment (there are only so many structure drawings >in > the magazines anyway).Two i would like to have had to added to >this list > would have been the K-4 drawings which i believe were printed in >the > late 1940's by Model Railroader and the GG-1 drawings (which i >used to > have) that were printed in two issues of a early 1970's Railroad > Model Craftsmen. In case anyone on the list is interested i also > have drawings for the Maryland and Pennsylvania 0-6-0,4-4-0,old >2-8-0 > newer 2-8-0 engines and cabin 2002 and if i can find it one of the >baggage > cars. > > Before i get into this i would like to say that while the book > " PRR passenger and freight car diagrams " by Robert Wayner > does'nt have the best in the way of line drawings...it still is > a handy source when you can't find info on a car otherwise. > > Note...to save space.... > > MR= Model Railroader > RMC= Railroad Model Craftsmen > MRing= Model Railroading > > This will be the way i do this..... > > (Sample) BP-60 pages 34-35 2-67 (date) RMC (magazine) > > Locomotives...... > > A-4 page 98 6-94 MR > B-4a page 42 7-68 MR > E-6s pages 92-93 9-78 MR (part of a model conversion article) > G-5s page 50 11-52 MR > H-3 (R) 100-104 11-86 MR > H-6sb page 52 2-61 MR > M-1a page 40 3-68 MR > N-1s page 48 11-69 MR > GG-1 (part of Broadway drawings) pages 84-99 10-94 MR > BP-60 pages 34-35 2-67 RMC > Baldwin 1500hp sharks (PRR) page 38 10-66 MR > K-4 scratchbuilding articles 1949 MR (i have the third part 12-49) > anyone have the others? > > Cabin Cars..... > > NA page 90 10-96 RMC (part of article) > N-4 page 124 12-95 MR > N-5 (a and b) page 51 11-68 MR > N-5c 4-82 ? MR (THIS IS ONE I DON'T HAVE)<----------- > N-8 conversion article in 2-70 RMC > > Pre 1900 cars..... > > GB page 90 10-96 RMC(this and below part of article) > XA page 90 10-96 RMC > KA page 91 10-96 RMC > Tool Car (no class given)page 40 10-59 MR > PF Coach pages 32-33 8-65 MR > > Pre WWII freight cars..... > > H-30 pages 66-67 10-81 MR (part of article) > F-30 (aka commonwealth flat) page 34 3-89 MRing (part of article) > F-33 pages 27-29 4-55 RMC > FM page 42 8-63 MR (also see page 81 10-77 MR) > XL pages 38-39 8-57 MR > XL Camp Car page 56 9-66 MR > R-7 (reefer) pages 40-45 4-58 MR (part of article) > > Post WWII freight cars.... > > G-39 page 47 12-67 RMC > H-2a (N&W H-10) page 39 6-65 MR > > Passenger Cars.... > > PB-54 and MP-54E page 78 10-69 MR > Modernized P-70 No.s 4244-4309 pages 44-45 10-68 RMC > 1920's Pullman Combine (Liberty series plans 3951-3951c)pages >110-111 >11-89MR (These cars for PRR service,later rebuilt) > D-70 page 67 1-55 RMC > B-70 theater cars pages 48-49 7-67 RMC > P-70 and MPB-70 cars page 36 8-63 MR > 1949 Broadway Limited (plus GG-1) pages 84-99 10-94 MR > POS21A (1938) pages 34-35 8-67 RMC > POS21 (1949) (pullman plan 4134) pages 42-43 8-68 RMC > PS106 ("rapids" and "eagle" series cars) page 89 7-96 MR > PS18 ("City of" series cars,1938) pages 48-49 8-67 RMC > P85b page 111 10-95 MR > > (Heavyweight Pullmans) > 12-1 Sleeper pages 40-41 2-66 MR > 12-1 " (pullman plan 2410-1) pages 56-57 12-67 RMC > 8-1-2 " " " 3979A pages 58-59 12-67 RMC > 8-1-1 " " " 2585D pages 34-35 8-68 RMC > 8-3-1 " " " 4090 pages 34-35 8-68 RMC > > > > Well thats all of it....I sincerly hope this helps someone. > > > Til Later > Hank Mummert > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on >special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 02:47:35 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Long one...Magazine drawing list Hank and All, Doesn't anyone out there read mainline Modeler? I know that there are excellent drawings published of the J-1, M-1, and I believe the T-1. I know as for diesels they did the FA/B-1&2 and the PA/B-1 as well as all the RS-3's, DL-600 and GP-7& 9's and the F-3's. For equipment they did the X-26, X-29B, X-31&32 , the GS gondola in all configurations and the GRA and boy I cannot recall what all. I could go into all the passenger cars both streamlined and Heavy weight. If you want to know which issues just contact our good friend on the list Al Stump SR. (ALBERTSR@aol.com) and I think he has a data base for them. And this stuff is just off the top of my head! Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] ETT's From: ptrmgtsvc@juno.com (Michael E. Allen) Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 01:45:02 EST Sounds reasonable. Get on Carl Loucks mailing list. His listings are probably the best market gauge. MEA ______________________________ PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY PTRMgtSvc@Juno.com Management Services Telephone 609-683-0356 On Tue, 01 Dec 1998 13:59:18 -0800 Ron Dugas writes: >Hi All, > >Have the oppurtunity to purchase a Pittsburgh Division ETT for $30. >Been >having a devil of a time finding one for my era/locale and this is the >first one in my '39-'59 span that I've seen . Is $30 dollars about >what >these usually go for? > >Thanks again, > >Ron. > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on >special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 06:08:34 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Fwd: PRR/Panhandle in Dayton (I) In a message dated 11/30/98 11:05:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, LINESWEST@aol.com writes: > While the PRR purchased the CL&N in 1896, two years after the CL&N completed > widening to standard gauge (with help of PRR financing), the CL&N did NOT > purchase the Dayton, Lebanon & Cincinnati RR & Terminal Co., until 1912. This must be the kind of thing that gives real historians fits. There apparently were several stages of the takeover, with John Hauck stating the CL&N was operating through to Dayton over the DL&C in the summer of 1914. Then he says the CL&N's purchase contract for the DL&C was December 14, 1914, with a contract to operate it four days later. Everyone confused now? > The > DL&C was builder and original operator of the line north of Dodds in Warren > County including the branch to Clement which intersected with the B&O > Wellston > sub and what became the mainline serving DESC, NCR and the PRR freight Depot. > Technically, the DL&C didn't build itself. It wound up with the 16.96 mile property in December 1888, six years after it was built by the Toledo, Delphos, and Burlington in 1881 or 1882 -- in other words, it was constructed (very badly) by the 3-foot-gauge operator of the line through LEBANON JUNCTION, at its north end. The TD&B line later was the 3-foot-gauge Dayton Fort Wayne & Chicago (controlled by the Cincinnati Hamilton & Dayton). Later the DFW&C was standard gauged, and the CH&D entered the B&O camp before 1925. That line through LEBANON JUNCTION is the one we know as the Wellston Subdivision (there is a Wellston vaguely near Jackson OH). Just to add to the merriment, that 1925 map of Dayton rail facilities tags it the "Wellington Branch". This latter name is probably an innocent mistake by the consulting engineers who drafted the map; their address is New York City. Interesting that the early owner(s) of the CL&N and of the DL&C were buddies in Cincinnati. Somehow the DL&C owner was unfazed by the fact it lost money every year -- he must have figured he would make out when he sold it. > In 1916 the CL&N was made part of the PRR's disjointed Pennsylvania, Ohio & > Detroit RR. > Again, historian heartburn -- Hauck says the PO&D consolidation agreement was dated June 7, 1924, but it didn't receive ICC approval until December 10, 1925. BTW, interesting 18 month time lag. I know the ICC was notorious for slow work, but I wonder if anyone was contesting this consolidation (sounds really lame)? We'll never know. Til the next train out, Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) Operating the Panhandle Route And Remembering PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 08:17:34 -0500 From: tmahon@cfnh.com (Tom Mahon) Subject: [PRR] Re: [Fwd: the latest NS/GTI rumor] I know that this is off topic, but several subscribers keep track of this kind of stuff. But it is rail stuff and Guilford/Springfield Terminal has a lousy reputation. They've been wrangling with AMTRAK for several years over rights for a Maine to Boston link. Please contact me off list with any info or observations. Thank you for your tolerance. Tom Mahon Ian MacMillan wrote: > > Heres a rummor, that I hope comes true! > > Ian > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: the latest NS/GTI rumor > Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 18:27:05 -0500 > From: BKulik > Reply-To: New England Railroad Discussion List , >      BKulik > To: NERAIL@LISTSERV.AOL.COM > > Brewster Bird just called me and asked to relay the following (his computer > is off line) to NERAIL. I cannot vouch for its accuracy, so take it with > however many grains (or sacks or covered hoppers) of salt you wish. > > Brewster reports that a family friend from NH with relatives working for > Guilford reported to him that STI and Norfolk Southern today have signed an > agreement for NS to purchase the B&M. He wasn't sure, but thinks the deal > is exclusive of any fibre optic transmission rights or other non-rr assets. > > I know how widely the prospect of just such a sale has been discussed on > this list in the recent past. Anyone else heard anything recent that > confirms or denies this? > > Brandon Kulik > kulik01@mint.net > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > New England Railroad Discussion List > to contact the owner send email to: GEMERY@TIAC.NET > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 08:49:25 -0500 From: bobsin@nac.net Subject: [PRR] Magazine drawing list I believe RMC once had (fairly rough) drawings of the E-44. If no one has the reference handy, I may have it buried away somewhere. John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:52:53 EST Subject: [PRR] Long one...Magazine drawing list Please add Prototype Modeler November-December 1988 for EP20 and EP22 drawings and history. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Boilerbob7@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:20:25 EST Subject: [PRR] Pullman Car Company The historic Pullman Car Factory on the south side of Chicago was destroyed in a fire Dec 1. It was to be a railroad museum. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 09:40:59 -0500 From: "s.a. mccall" Subject: Re: [PRR] Water troughs Question-how were the troughs filled and how was the level maintained? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 08:49:25 -0500 From: bobsin@nac.net Subject: [PRR] Magazine drawing list I believe RMC once had (fairly rough) drawings of the E-44. If no one has the reference handy, I may have it buried away somewhere. John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:15:33 -0500 From: thompson@ridgeback.East.Sun.COM (Keith B. Thompson - Sun) Subject: Re: [PRR] Long one...Magazine drawing list I use the online model train magazine index to find plans.... try it out: http://www.accurail.com/tm.htm click on Search... By Keyword and then search with the keywords "PRR plans" my search came up with 153 entries back to MR March 1934 (it seems that most of the interesting, to me, PRR plans are all pre 1950 :( it would be great if MR and others re-published these once in a while) kbt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:19:40 -0500 (EST) From: alcoman Subject: Re: [PRR] Water troughs It was done much like a well is now with a float and valve assembly or like a commode. There was a float valve attached to the side of the trough and when the water was scooped up the valve would drop opening the filler line to the tank. The water would fill to the desired level and then the water would shut off. The same principle is used for self-filling animal water troughs on farms and such. On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, s.a. mccall wrote: > > Question-how were the troughs filled and how was the level maintained? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on > special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > William J. Enser Co-Net Admin - Tech Supp & Validations alcoman@bluemoon.net net.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Online System x2 & K56flex/V.90 Access www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network http://www.bluemoon.net mud.bluemoon.net 4000 - MoonMud bbs.bluemoon.net irc.bluemoon.net-ZUHnet Buffalo,NY IRC Server Home Page:http://alcoman.railfan.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Water troughs Date: Wed, 2 Dec 98 10:01:07 -0500 From: Jerry On 12/2/98 9:40 AM, s.a. mccall (hosam@amaze.net) wrote: >Question-how were the troughs filled and how was the level maintained? I know there were cisterns nearby. In fact, Bill Lewis has told me on numerous ocassions that there is still a cistern existing on the Middle Division, I just forget where. I am sure that they were gravity fed and the level was probably maintained simply via the interaction of gravity & back pressure vs. overflow. All just conjecture on my part. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Miracle Castings Inc." Subject: [PRR] British rail pans Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:30:34 -0500 Hi All! I was just reading a British rail mag I have last night, and they had an article about track pans. Apparently they sometimes had train cancellations because of engine problems, caused by ballast picked up by trains using the track pans. The one set of pans they showed had a 55,000 gal. reservoir tank, and took 2 minutes to refill after a train passed. They also mentioned passengers in trailing cars getting drenched by overflows caused by not raising the scoop fast enough. Seems to me I also remember reading about a derailment caused in the US, by a train's water scoop not retracting properly and catching on a road crossing timber. Sounds like they had their problems with the things...... Pat Lawless ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 11:21:35 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: [PRR] Surviving Cisterns on Middle Division main line >numerous ocassions that there is still a cistern existing on the Middle >Division, I just forget where. Greetings to Jerry and the list: Two that I know of for certain -- at Hawstone, in the Lewistown Narrows, for the track pans and at Longfellow, near McVeytown, for the non-scooping water station. The one at Hawstone is in the woods but the one at Longfellow is *right* beside Route 103, overgrown but right there on the hillside overlooking the long curve at MP 173. BTW, that's a wonderful place to watch trains, Rtoue 103 parallels the railroad off-and-on for a couple of miles. Dan Cupper dan@cwix.com 2 Cor. 9:6-7 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 20:32:29 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] LinesWest Fans Fest update, April 11 CL&N fantrip set In a message dated 12/2/98 6:08:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, RickTipton writes: << Have you thought about photo exhibits (mounted prints)? >> Yes, in fact On two subjects . The Dayton Montgomery County Library and the Wright State University have copies of a PRR published book on the Great 1913 flood, the only event in 99 years to halt all traffic between Pittsburgh and Chicago. It is heavy on photographs. I'd like to store the prints digitally and produce prints for display. The other would be the PRR in Xenia and Greene County drawing from the Greene County, Xenia, Spring Valley, Cedarville, Beavercreek, Yellow Springs, South Charleston historical society, Harry Noble, George McCleland and others. There's shots available to span the entire 140 years that the PRR or its forbears and successors were active in the Little Miami Valley. Also possible is a display on the bike paths and restoration and reconstruction involving the PRR in West Central and South West Ohio Now about history: <> True, but the DL&C DID build a 9+ line from Hempstead, a junction which was located on the present 130+ acre site of the Kettering Meijer store on the Southwest Corner of Stroop Road and Wilmington Pike north through Van Buren Township into Dayton to Dayton Union Terminal where it served the national headquarters and primary manufacturing works of the National Cash Register Co. (the real NCR, Jerry, the North Central Railway is abbreviated NCRy), the Dayton State Hospital and, during and after WWII, Gentile Air Force supply Depot, later the e Defense Electric Supply Center. South of Hempstead the only customers on the line north of Lebanon were the grain elevator and feed mill on Franklin Street (Centerville Station Road in Greene County) and Limestone quarries around Centerville & Lytle. In 1908 delays in completion of the DL&C to NCR sparked a rather amusing feud between NCR founder John Patterson and Dayton Daily News Publisher (later Ohio governor and 1920 Democratic presidential candidate) James M. Cox during which Patterson closed NCR to have more time to spend on his suits against Cox It is interesting to note that the sale was not final until after it was complete. The confusion over dates may stem from the difference between the announcement of an intent to buy and final ICC or Public Utilities Commission approval of the purchase. Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 21:21:22 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Pittsburgh ETT correction. In a message dated 98-12-01 15:50:43 EST, rond@efn.org writes: << So far respondents feel $30 is kinda high, but I've not seen any others >> This is the entire ETT issue in a nutshell. As they become rarer and rarer, prices will soar. I would gladly pay $30 for a pre-1940 ETT in good, excellent, or mint condition, if I needed it. This price is probably about normal for "established" dealers, such as Carl Loucks. You can often do better than this at shows, but your chances of NOT finding what you want at a show are considerable. Rich Copeland P.S. -- does anyone have a Toledo Div they are willing to part with? Preferred(but not required) dates are 4/27/41 or 9/28/47. Please contact me privately. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:36:30 -0500 (EST) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] drawing lists,Mainline Modeler and Jersey electric cars. Hi again folks.... I'm getting some pretty good input for where to find drawings of PRR equipment....I'll check out all the sources and info as i get them, then after about a week (if i get time to get it all in one e-mail) I'll post it all to the group. Maybe perhaps later i'll do a structures list...but for now just the equipment. I have the articles on the RS-3 from Mainline Modeler...but no drawings...drat. BTW...either MM or Model Railroading had a article and some drawings for catenary about a year or so ago...But i think it was for the Virginian Rwy. Very similar to PRR types. Also about a week ago...someone mentioned the electric cars used on the line to Atlantic City.....In " PRR passenger and freight car Diagrams " on page 38 there is a MP-54 like car diagram...classed MPB 54 D with trolley poles shown on top of the car. Also on page 40 there is a diagram for a W.J.& S. RR car...This car is a wooden interurban like coach...shows bases for trolley poles. Looks to be a Brill or Niles type car. til later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 20:19:20 -0500 (EST) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] Hmmmmm perhaps a rethinking of this Hi again folks..... Ok here's whats up...Both Keith Thompson and Dick Ross sent me a URL for Accurail's magazine list. This is a very complete list that i was'nt aware of...There are though some sources that are not listed. Perhaps it would be easier to post the URL here and a bit later list sources that are'nt in Accurail's list. Here below is Accurail's list URL....under KEY WORD type in PRR Drawings. There are 153 PRR drawing listings out of 498 PRR related findings. Have Fun http://www.accurail.com/tm.htm I'll keep you all posted on what happens... Oh...one more thing...Anyone have or could send me a copy of the Oct. 1971 Model Railroader Drawing for the business car " Chesapeake " ( A must for a Baltimore modeler )....Hmmm are there decals for PRR business cars? Thanks you all Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:17:01 EST Subject: [PRR] ALL TIME MAGAZINE LIST This has been posted once - but it was a long time ago: for an "ALL TIME" searchable index of MANY Magazine articles see: Model Train Magazine Index http://www.accurail.com/tm.htm AOL users can go direct to: http:// www.accurail.com/tm_aol.htm Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] FM C-Liners -- What Class? Date: Wed, 2 Dec 98 15:11:10 -0500 From: Jerry Are the FM "C-Liners" and "CF16A/B" one and the same...PRR Class FF16? If not, what model/class is "C-Liner" a nickname for? ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:34:48 -0500 (EST) From: bobr@tridelta.com (Bob Rothrock) Subject: Re: [PRR] Water troughs At 09:40 AM 12/2/98 -0500, s.a. mccall wrote: > >Question-how were the troughs filled and how was the level maintained? > - Can't speak for the PRR, but I have seen blueprints for an NYC track pan installation, which included a pump house with some filtration equipment and steam heating to condition the water year-round. Level control was likely (not sure, though) via sight glass or float mechanism situated in the pump house. Bob Rothrock ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 23:08:45 -0800 From: Ron Dugas Subject: Re: [PRR] Water troughs Hi All, "The other problem for the warmer times of the year was FROGS, ....when they would get to the servicing facility there would literally be 100's of them in the tender." Oh, great. Now the "Ribet Counters" will insist that we model these, complete with authentic sound systems. Does anyone know the correct pitch/tone for Pennsylvania frogs? Thanks, Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] K11 and K9, X29 Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 14:08:45 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell On 1 Dec, staffsgtyork@juno.com wrote: > 2. I model WW2 until '54: When do the "patch" panels repairing rust > damage on the standard X29 show up? Were they repaired before the shadow > keystone repainting? I plan on having dirty, rust patched circle > keystones, with a few brand new shadow keystones appearing. I just don't > know if the new paint was put over patched sides on the boxcars, or if > they received "heavy repairs". They were definitely repaired before SK; there's a photo analysis of Camden Yard in 1948(?) in a very recent RMJ (the sole reason I bought the mag) that clearly shows an X29 with the patches. And yes, they were repainted, or at least patch-painted, and I believe that the cars got reweighed. One of the freightcar list gurus has said that he would find a postwar X29 without the patches less than credible, but you know *them*. :-) Did you see the article (by Bill Darnaby?) in a very recent MR regarding modelling these patches? BTW, our modelling aims coincide quite closely... Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] BP60 and Dynamic Brakes Date: Wed, 2 Dec 98 12:54:36 -0500 From: Jerry To answer a question from a few days ago... According to "Form 109:K Classification and Description of Locomotives and Tenders", Class BP60 (Centipedes) did NOT have dynamic brakes. Nor did Class BH50, the same unit converted to helper service later in life. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:27:52 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] K11 and K9, X29 In a message dated 12/1/98 20:49:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, staffsgtyork@juno.com writes: << About X29s-- 1. When did most of the rebuilds into X29G, F, etc, take place? I think mid fifties. Perhaps this will help. This is a list of the number of the subclasses shown in the ORER for the dates given. CLASS OCT 44 OCT 48 APR 52 OCT 53 OCT 58 OCT 63 APR 68 X29 27696 27468 24533 23336 20533 2212 130 X29A 1 1 1 1 1 X29B 381 4404 4485 4415 4347 2525 X29C 4 6 6 28 3 X29D NEW 999 4075 4018 3055 X29E 100 100 98 X29F NEW 398 395 X29G 898 879 X29H 28 X29K 12 X29L 416 2. I model WW2 until '54: When do the "patch" panels repairing rust damage on the standard X29 show up? 1940's Were they repaired before the shadow keystone repainting? YES I plan on having dirty, rust patched circle keystones, with a few brand new shadow keystones appearing. I just don't know if the new paint was put over patched sides on the boxcars, or if they received "heavy repairs". BOTH HEAVY REPAIRS USUALLY MEANT REBUILD TO A DIFFERENT SUBCLASS IN THE CASE OF THE X29's Rich Orr >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] ETT's Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:21:29 -0500 (EST) > Amen. I agree with Randy. About $15 seems top, depending on age and > condition. > Bob Zoeller As I stated in personal email, I agree with the above assessment. My recent experience at PRRT&HS meetings is that RRiana stuff there is often overpriced, a few particular (and favorite, for me) dealers excepted. I guess they're figuring the audience is captive. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 10:54:04 -0500 From: bobsin@nac.net Subject: [PRR] Magazine drawing list - E44 Following Keith's suggestion to try the Accurail search engine, it appears that the RMC E44 plans may have been either July 1966 or December 1961; I suspect I never saw the '61, so the 7/66 may be it. John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 22:35:27 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] LinesWest Fans Fest update, April 11 CL&N fantrip set On Wed, 2 Dec 1998 LINESWEST@aol.com wrote: > . The Dayton Montgomery County Library and the Wright State University have > copies of a PRR published book on the Great 1913 flood, the only event in 99 > years to halt all traffic between Pittsburgh and Chicago. It is heavy on > photographs. I'd like to store the prints digitally and produce prints for > display. Likewise, the Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh has this book, as well as a PRR book on the floods of 1936 and 1937, also heavy on pix. Maybe someday I'll get a portable scanner. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Magazine drawing list - E44 From: ptrmgtsvc@juno.com (Michael E. Allen) Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 00:53:45 EST While I have not gone into my attic to find it, I believe that the RMC Drawings accompanied an article by Bill Schopp [sic] on converting an AHM U-25C into a pseudo E44 MEA ______________________________ PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY PTRMgtSvc@Juno.com Management Services Telephone 609-683-0356 On Wed, 02 Dec 1998 10:54:04 -0500 bobsin@nac.net writes: >Following Keith's suggestion to try the Accurail search engine, >it appears that the RMC E44 plans may have been either July 1966 >or December 1961; I suspect I never saw the '61, so the 7/66 may >be it. > >John Bobsin > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on >special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 00:40:51 -0500 From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: Re: [PRR] FM C-Liners -- What Class? --------------1B98A2A3F9C8CF7C2C2B96F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howdy All: Yes Jerry the PRR class FF16 (A & B units)is the same as the CFA-16-4 / CFB-16-4. Fairbanks-Morse - Consolidation Line Freight [or Passenger] (A or B) - 16(00 horsepower) - 4 axles. The model was available in 1600, 2000 or 2400 hp. The PRR only bought the 1600 hp freight model. 16 A units (9448A to 9455A and 9492A to 9499A) and 8 B units - even numbers only (9448B to 9454B and 9492B to 9498B). Both A and B units had dynamic brakes. The Consolidation Line was also available in 5 axles models CPA(B)-16, 20 or 24 - 5. The big CPA-24-5 had 2 traction motors on the B end with an A-1-A truck. I have no information as to a Freight version of the -5 model. I had an AHM model of one many years ago - CN wet noddle - can't remember if it had the A-1-A truck or not. All of the FF16's and various versions of FF20's are off the PRR roster by 1965 - however NYC had 8 A's and 4 B's at the time of the merger - they where all retired with out new PC numbers cos wsbcos.com Jerry wrote: > Are the FM "C-Liners" and "CF16A/B" one and the same...PRR Class FF16? > > If not, what model/class is "C-Liner" a nickname for? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com > Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. > Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! > The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on > special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". --------------1B98A2A3F9C8CF7C2C2B96F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howdy All:

Yes Jerry the PRR class FF16 (A & B units)is the same as the CFA-16-4 / CFB-16-4.  Fairbanks-Morse - Consolidation Line Freight [or Passenger] (A or B) - 16(00 horsepower) - 4 axles.  The model was available in 1600, 2000 or 2400 hp.  The PRR only bought the 1600 hp freight model.  16 A units (9448A to 9455A and 9492A to 9499A) and 8 B units - even numbers only (9448B to 9454B and 9492B to 9498B).  Both A and B units had dynamic brakes.

The Consolidation Line was also available in 5 axles models CPA(B)-16, 20 or 24 - 5.  The big CPA-24-5 had 2 traction motors on the B end with an A-1-A truck.  I have no information as to a Freight version of the -5 model.  I had an AHM model of one many years ago - CN wet noddle - can't remember if it had the A-1-A truck or not.

All of the FF16's and various versions of FF20's are off the PRR roster by 1965 - however NYC had 8 A's and 4 B's at the time of the merger - they where all retired with out new PC numbers

cos
wsbcos.com

Jerry wrote:

Are the FM "C-Liners" and "CF16A/B" one and the same...PRR Class FF16?

If not, what model/class is "C-Liner" a nickname for?

------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
   Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954.
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
   Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net!
   The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World!

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  --------------1B98A2A3F9C8CF7C2C2B96F0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] George Pierson Layout Photos Date: Thu, 3 Dec 98 08:23:34 -0500 From: Jerry I have posted several photos of George Pierson's "Middle Division" layout, featuring the Denholm coal wharf. George did a wonderful job modeling this area, and it's worth a look. See http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layouts/ ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gabe" Subject: Re: [PRR] Water troughs Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 07:39:34 -0500 > - Can't speak for the PRR, but I have seen blueprints for an NYC >track pan installation, which included a pump house with some filtration >equipment and steam heating to condition the water year-round. Level control >was likely (not sure, though) via sight glass or float mechanism situated in >the pump house. > >Bob Rothrock I can't offer much technically on this, but can say for certain that PRR did also use steam for the winter trough use - my info comes from a (long ago) conversation with the trough maintenance man at Grundy on NEC. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 07:27:39 -0500 (EST) From: Ed Turner - SE BellSouth District Subject: [PRR] Fire guts last remaining structure of Pullman works Fire guts last remaining structure of Pullman works. Someone mentioned this yesterday on the list. CNN OnLine has a story: http://www.cnn.com/US/9812/03/pullman.01.ap/ Regards, Ed -+-+-===-+-+- -+-+-+-+-=====-+-+-+-+- -+-+-===-+-+- | Edward F. Turner, Systems Engineer ed.turner@east.sun.com | + Sun Microsystems, Inc., Computer Systems Ph 770 360-6466 + | 3655 North Point Parkway, Alpharetta, GA 30005 Fax 770 360-6785 | -+-+-===-+-+- -+-+-+-+-=====-+-+-+-+- -+-+-===-+-+- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:42:35 -0500 From: Michael Bezilla Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Cisterns on Middle Division main line >>numerous ocassions that there is still a cistern existing on the Middle >>Division, I just forget where. In addition to the ones Dan Cupper mentioned at Hawstone & Longfellow, a cistern also survives on the hillside above the tracks in Jacks Narrows (between Mapleton & Mt Union). It fed the Mapleton pans. I think the pans over near Bellwood were not fed from cisterns but from either or both the reservoirs the PRR built at the foot of the mountain above Tipton and Bellwood, these also supplied water to the Juniata shops. Dan, correct me if I'm wrong on this. -mike ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Cisterns on Middle Division main line Date: Thu, 3 Dec 98 10:15:29 -0500 From: Jerry On 12/3/98 8:42 AM, Michael Bezilla (mxb13@psu.edu) wrote: >In addition to the ones Dan Cupper mentioned at Hawstone & Longfellow, a >cistern also survives on the hillside above the tracks in Jacks Narrows >(between Mapleton & Mt Union). Bingo! I'm almost sure the Jacks Narrows cistern was the one that Bill Lewis had originally told me about. He mentioned that it was up on the side of a hill, mostly overgrown with vegetation. I'm sure that was the one. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Modeling Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! WWW.PENNSYRR.COM - See what's new in PRR all over the net! The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:00:10 -0500 From: Michael Bezilla Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Cisterns on Middle Division main line >>In addition to the ones Dan Cupper mentioned at Hawstone & Longfellow, a >>cistern also survives on the hillside above the tracks in Jacks Narrows >>(between Mapleton & Mt Union). > >Bingo! I'm almost sure the Jacks Narrows cistern was the one that Bill >Lewis had originally told me about. He mentioned that it was up on the >side of a hill, mostly overgrown with vegetation. I'm sure that was the >one. Well, the one at Hawstone is on a hillside and overgrown too. It is easily seen--and reached--via Pa. rt. 333 (across the river from US 322). Just literally a stone's throw from 333. The one at Mapleton has no easy access by road. -mike ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 18:38:29 +0000 From: "John H. Wright" Subject: [PRR] Water Troughs and tender aquaria In message <366638FE.6967@efn.org>, Ron Dugas writes >"The other problem for the warmer times of the year was FROGS, ....when >they would get to the servicing facility there would literally be 100's >of them in the tender." > >Oh, great. Now the "Ribet Counters" will insist that we model these, >complete with authentic sound systems. Does anyone know the correct >pitch/tone for Pennsylvania frogs? The frog I ran over last week would B Flat:-) Though not quite on the frog thread, when locomotives used to be assigned to individual drivers some of the British old-timers from the turn of the century were fond of keeping fish in their tenders, eels being the favourite. The theory was they nibbled the vegetation and stuff that grew in the tanks and so kept the sieves clean. Crew would throw them the left-overs from their meals and there are reports of some of these eels growing to prodigious size. Sometimes a new crew would forget about the occupant in the tank and turn steam back to heat the feed-water! Regards, -- John H. Wright Visit the Newcastle & District Model Railway Society's web site at: http://www.jhwright.demon.co.uk/index.htm Descriptions and views of our layouts in: Z, N, HO (USA), HO (Continental), OO, P4, and O Gauge Plus members' layouts, exhibitions, fun stuff, building techniques, model railway & railroad links, stories, news and events. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 13:30:24 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Cisterns on Middle Division main line . I think the pans >over near Bellwood were not fed from cisterns but from either or both the >reservoirs the PRR built at the foot of the mountain above Tipton and >Bellwood, these also supplied water to the Juniata shops. Dan, correct me >if I'm wrong on this. -Mike Bezilla > > Greetings to Mike & the list: Think you must be right -- PRR had an extensive water system, with multiple reservoirs and many miles of water mains, in the Altoona-Juniata-Hollidaysburg area. If I'm remembering correctly, the statistic I recall is that the shops used 1 million gallons of water a day. It would have been relatively easy to extend feeder lines to the track pans at Bellwood, which lay just beyond the east approach to East Altoona yard. Dan Cupper ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:38:33 EST Subject: [PRR] Details for PRR X40 60' Merchandise Serv & Auto box Hey folks, For kicks I'm updating scratch-built Pennsy X40 Merchandise Service and auto boxcars based on a May 1956 MR "dollar model project" construction story and a June 1971 MR story on auto boxes. My questions are: 1. PRR auto box end doors were listed in the 1997 Walther's catalogue as a Westerfield detail part. I'm assuming this was from their X25 outside braced auto box. It's not listed in the 1999 catalogue. Would these doors be correct for the X40B? Is there any accurate after-market part for the end doors? 2. I've got the Champ decal set for the PRR Merchandise Service original scheme (I model 1950 so this would be correct. Champion lists a 40' auto car with a Keystone on the ball herald. Dose any one out there make a complete set for the X40B including data. Thanks in advance, Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 16:08:18 EST Subject: [PRR] Merchandise announcement Jerry, Afraid I accidnetly deleted your announcement before reading it. Could you reissue it, please? Thanks, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:46:41 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Cisterns on Middle Division main line ---Dan Cupper wrote: > ...PRR had an extensive water system, with multiple > reservoirs and many miles of water mains, in the > Altoona-Juniata-Hollidaysburg area. Not just the Middle Division. Pittsburgh Division had a system of reservoirs, pump houses, water mains running from near Johnstown all the way to Pittsburgh. I recall reading in a coal mining reference from the WW 1 era that PRR also had reservoirs in the Indian Creek Valley, complete with a system of wooden flumes to carry mine drainage past their water system. (I was down in the Indian Creek country in the late '40s and saw the remains of the flumes, although at the time I didn't know what I was seeing). More recently, the PRR water works were sold to a water company, which has been making a buck by connecting the old PRR system into municipal water systems when they run low. Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian Brandt" Subject: Re: [PRR] Fire guts last remaining structure of Pullman works Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 18:09:43 -0500 The shame of it is, the history of the Pullman Company is on Trains Unlimited tonight. Brian Brandt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CENTGA@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 18:36:53 EST Subject: [PRR] Altoona Yard Blueprints A couple of months ago someone on the list purchased the Altoona yard blueprints off E-Bay, but I can't remember who, if this applies to you will you please contact me off the list. Thanks Todd Horton ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:51:35 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Re: X29--got it right From: staffsgtyork@juno.com Thanks for all the input! David "SGT" York ----------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has Digitrax and Bowser on special during December. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.