From: Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 10:42:32 EDT Subject: [PRR] Railfest 98, Altoona Content-Length: 443 Who else is planning on attending Railfest 98? Harold Modeling the Middle Division ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Universal What's New page Date: Mon, 3 Aug 98 09:14:20 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 2142 Not unlike my "Works In Progress" page (http://kc.pennsyrr.com/working.html) which intends to list web works in progress from many sites, I was wondering about the feasibility of creating a "Universal What's New" page. My idea is that all who have "substantial" PRR web sites participate. Without near full participation, the concept loses its effectiveness. Each participant will maintain an unlinked site on their page. I will supply a set of custom HTML tags. Between these, the webmeister of the site can include any new items that they have added within the last, say, 30 days. The last item on the list may be a link to a more complete "What's New" page at the site. Meanwhile, on my site, will be the Universal What's New page. Every time someone accesses it, it will serve the header and footer, but in between it will call up and insert all of the mini "What's New" tidbits from around the web. Like this: header new at Jerry Britton's "Keystone Crossings" new at Mark Bej's "The Broad Way" new at Rob Schoenberg's... new at ... new at etc footer Everyone can then check out this one page on a daily basis to see what's been added where. The individual web masters can update their own info without my intervention and it will be updated to the world in real time. To make it work, however, we need a lot of participation. What do y'all think, and who all would be willing to participate? ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: pennsy@alphalink.com.au (Mike Molloy) Subject: [PRR] (PRR) Universal What's New page Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 13:37:55 GMT Content-Length: 609 I think this would be a great idea I don't have a whole lot to offer on my small site, but I'd love to participate when it gets started. And it would be a great way to keep up with all the additions to so many PRR sites! Count me in! Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 8:38:43 -0500 From: "Laird, Bill (GWise)" Subject: [PRR] Railfest 98, Altoona -Reply Content-Length: 784 Date: 08/03/1998 02:36 pm (Monday) From: Bill Laird To: INET.MAIL("PRR-Talk@dsop.com") Subject: [PRR] Railfest 98, Altoona -Reply >>> PRR-Talk@dsop.com 08/02/98 09:42am >>> >Who else is planning on attending Railfest 98? >Harold >Modeling the Middle Division -------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am planning on being there on Sat. Bill Laird Houston, Texas ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Universal What's New page Date: Mon, 3 Aug 98 10:07:49 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1147 On 8/3/98 9:14 AM, Jerry (jerry@dsop.com) wrote: >Meanwhile, on my site, will be the Universal What's New page. Every time >someone accesses it, it will serve the header and footer, but in between >it will call up and insert all of the mini "What's New" tidbits from >around the web. I want to clarify my own statement. This page will not be served from the "Keystone Crossings" (biased) site, but from the generic WWW.PENNSYRR.COM site. In fact, the link is already in place. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] TrucTrain Routing (fwd) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 10:15:36 EDT Content-Length: 1382 > On 7/28/98 6:30 PM, Wayne S. Betty (wsbcos@cris.com) wrote: > >I remember lots of TV traffic through Mount Joy. We moved to Mount Joy in > >1969. One of my favorite places in Mount Joy was the crossing at the Florin Jerry: > Finally, someone that can substantiate TrucTrain traffic on the passenger > main prior to the Conrail merger!!! > Okay, we've got it set in 1969...now if we can just back it up. I need > 1954. > Since nobody has been able to find an ETT for 1954 for the Philly > Division, maybe those with ETT's for the Philly Division later in the > 1950's can take a look at the schedule for any of the TrucTrains. > At introduction, the symbols were LCL-x. Later someone mentioned them as > TT-x. > Follow the route: do STATE or ROY appear? If so, they went the passenger > main through Harrisburg. Do COLA or CLY appear? If so, they went the A&S. Jerry, did you bother to check http://www.neuro.ccf.org/~bejm/Rail/Prr/Frtsched/ ? Your answer is there, for 1960. -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] TrucTrain Routing (fwd) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 10:28:53 EDT Content-Length: 993 > The 1959 Freight Schedules on Mark Bej's site do show STATE. So as of > that date, they did go through Harrisburg. Another response placed them > in Mount Joy (between Lancaster and Middletown) which is also on the > passenger line. I see the problem. >From the perspective of having typed in a large number of these schedules, the stong sense I get is that A&S trains went thru Enola (DAY, CLY), whereas main line trains went thru STATE. The only one seems certain is TT-6, which stops in Lancaster -- though it _could have_, I guess, take the Columbia Branch from Royalton to Columbia to Lancaster...! -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: pennsy@alphalink.com.au (Mike Molloy) Subject: [PRR] Double Posts Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 14:46:23 GMT Content-Length: 544 Hi Jerry, As the subject says! I'm not fussed to much about it as the multiple posts are easily identifed and dropped. However I thought you would like to know. Cheers, Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 11:07:11 -0400 From: "Drew R. McGhee" Subject: [PRR] Concerning Horseshoe Curve was Re: Any Help At All Content-Length: 2406 Greetings to Jerry and the group, As to the date of the photo on page 21 of Schafer's & Soloman's _Pennsylvania Railroad_ book, I would say after 1963. According to Cupper's _Horseshoe Heritage_, the N6b cabin car 980901 was placed at the Curve in 1963. It was destroyed in a 1976 arson fire. The K4 1361 was placed at the Curve in 1957. If you are modeling early 50s, 1361 would not have been on display yet. The gift shop building was built in 1940. The old stone stairs up to track level began behind the clump of trees to the right of the "round cement area" you mentioned. I can't say what that round cement thing was. I moved to Altoona in 1983, which was the first time I visited the Curve. I don't remember it being there then, though it could have been. The stone stairs sort of zig-zaged up to the top. Yes, there were a few landings. Only one, the large one you can see in the photo, was covered. It was large enough for a couple of picnic tables but I don't remember ever seeing tables there from 83 on. The steps did hit the top just to the left, under the fall colored tree, of the stone, white washed, horseshoe. Again, according to Cupper's book, the lower horseshoe and stone retaining wall was installed in 1952. If you would like additional detail on the Curve's history, I recommend Cupper's book. In Kalmbach's _More railroads You Can Model_, there is a John Armstrong PRR track plan of Altoona to Cresson. Although the trackplan is not real close to the prototype, the trackplan article does have a few shots of the Curve. Some were taken before 1361 was in place. Kalmbach's _Heart of the PRR The Main Line Philadelphia to Pittsburgh_ also has some pre-1957 photos of the Curve. Another good photo for a pre-1957 view of the Curve is the lead photo of the April 1957 _Trains_ article "World's Busiest Mountain Railroad" by David P. Morgan. This would be a good article to get a copy of if you are interested in operations around the Curve in the 50s. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Double Posts From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 98 11:15:53 -0400 Content-Length: 499 Jerry, I I too too still still occasionally occasionally get get double double post posts.. regards regards, Andy Andy Miller Miller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:07:15 -0500 From: "Laird, Bill (GWise)" Subject: [PRR] Concerning Horseshoe Curve was Re: Any Help At All -Reply Content-Length: 1212 Date: 08/03/1998 06:04 pm (Monday) From: Bill Laird To: INET.MAIL("PRR-Talk@dsop.com") Subject: [PRR] Concerning Horseshoe Curve was Re: Any Help At All -Reply >>> PRR-Talk@dsop.com 08/03/98 10:07am Drew McGee wrote, in part >>> >In Kalmbach's _More railroads You Can Model_, there is a John >Armstrong PRR track plan of Altoona to Cresson. Although the trackplan >is not real close to the prototype, the trackplan article does have a few >shots of the Curve. Some were taken before 1361 was in place. If someone on the list has this book (currently out of print, originally published in 1978), I would very much like to see a copy of the track plan and accompanying article. I would be very glad to reimburse anyone for copying and postage expenses. Bill Laird email: bill.laird@coastalcorp.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Concerning Horseshoe Curve was Re: Any Help At All Date: Mon, 3 Aug 98 13:20:50 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1883 On 8/3/98 1:07 PM, Laird, Bill (GWise) (William.Laird@coastalcorp.com) wrote: >>In Kalmbach's _More railroads You Can Model_, there is a John >>Armstrong PRR track plan of Altoona to Cresson. Although the trackplan >>is not real close to the prototype, the trackplan article does have a few >>shots of the Curve. Some were taken before 1361 was in place. > > >If someone on the list has this book (currently out of print, originally >published in 1978), I would very much like to see a copy of the track plan >and accompanying article. I would be very glad to reimburse anyone for >copying and postage expenses. At the April PRRT&HS convention, Mark Bej made some very good points about "how bad this layout is" from an operational standpoint. Basically, an eastbound train that wants to enter the Altoona yard, must change to the outer mainline track just after leaving Altoona (heading east) so it can hit the yard on the next pass. There is no crossover anywhere on the mountain. Amazing!!! Actually, Mark was speaking of the layout in the "20 Railroads You Can Model". That Horseshoe layout was based apparently on the one mentioned above, and repeated the error in design, per Mark. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Concerning Horseshoe Curve was Re: Any Help At All (fwd) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 14:59:20 EDT Content-Length: 5405 > On 8/3/98 1:07 PM, Laird, Bill (GWise) (William.Laird@coastalcorp.com) > wrote: > >>In Kalmbach's _More railroads You Can Model_, there is a John > >>Armstrong PRR track plan of Altoona to Cresson. Although the trackplan > >>is not real close to the prototype, the trackplan article does have a few > >>shots of the Curve. Some were taken before 1361 was in place. > > > > > >If someone on the list has this book (currently out of print, originally > >published in 1978), I would very much like to see a copy of the track plan > >and accompanying article. I would be very glad to reimburse anyone for > >copying and postage expenses. Jerry wrote: > At the April PRRT&HS convention, Mark Bej made some very good points > about "how bad this layout is" from an operational standpoint. Basically, > an eastbound train that wants to enter the Altoona yard, must change to > the outer mainline track just after leaving Altoona (heading east) so it > can hit the yard on the next pass. There is no crossover anywhere on the > mountain. Amazing!!! > > Actually, Mark was speaking of the layout in the "20 Railroads You Can > Model". That Horseshoe layout was based apparently on the one mentioned > above, and repeated the error in design, per Mark. What Jerry wrote above captures my basic sentiments about the layout -- though it is not entirely correct. I'm afraid I'd need the layout in front of me to provide the full criticism of it, but here were the basic points: 1) the eastern tunnel portals have the wrong "look". YOu can of course decide whether you want to model 2+1+1 or 1+1+1 tracks, but it should be the northern 2 tracks that are close together, not the southern 2. Moreover, the interesting operational possibilities of full vertical separation that is on the prototype is not used in the model. 2) If we number the tunnel tracks 2,3,4 from south to north, presumably the railroad would run #2 track eastbound, #3 bidirectional, and #4 westbound. Note that 2 track splits just east of the tunnels. Let's call these 1,2,3,4. Note further that the _only_ way to get to Altoona yard is from #1 track. That means the train must be on #2 tunnel track, and your last chance to get to _it_ is way back ... somewhere. I.e. your decision to yard the train must be way way early. This problem would be _fixed_ by adding one crossover the other way at SLOPE/ALTO interlocking, just west of the yard. 1+2) In summary, this MRR is designed for running westbound freights UP the Allegheny grade. 3) As is typical of most MRR designs, there are crossovers/interlockings helter-skelter over the main. There is little rhyme or reason, and contrary to prototype, there is little compaction of the control points. 4) Freight trains remaining on the main E/B must go through the passenger station. Altoona, like most larger stations on PRR, had deliberate passenger/freight separation. Perhaps one can chalk this one up to "MRR selective modelling", but a little more effort would have been nice. 5) There is a helper pocket just east of the station. However, note that the helper pocket is not on the westbound (=uphill) main side, nor between the mains, but rather on the E/B side. To make matters worse, the helper has 2 complicated ways of getting out. Either you use the immediately local crossovers (tying up the E/B main in the process) and do a triple move, through wrong-way crossovers, to get out ... or you go E/B on the E/B main (tying it up, again) to a distant crossover, get on the W/B main, and pull up to your train. Prototypical? I doubt it. Between the mains makes the most sense, with an equilateral switch from the helper pocket to each main W/B. That way, you pull directly against the train; further, coming E/B, you pull directly into the helper pocket. But some research is in order. I for one don't recall a helper pocket at ALTO. Was there one, or did the typical train come thru the yard to pick up its helper? 6) Note that the number of mains drop to 2 (or 1) at Altoona yard. This is moderately acceptable and expected if one is modelling an era when nearly all trains would have stopped for crews. However, it is doubtful that a single main farther east could have generated the traffic to justify four tracks over the mountain. Note that Conrail's ratio is 2 tracks off the hill to 3 tracks on. To justify 4 tracks on the hill, I'd say you'd better have at least 3 tracks off the hill (in some combination of one or more lines). These were my main complaints. The layout is, in Armstrongish style, a mastery of compaction and placing one thing onto another. The ability to run it as a dogbone or as a loop is also quite interesting. Being that it passes the territory of the EBT, I'm surprised no 3' gauge (and dual guage!) trackage was added. -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Concerning Horseshoe Curve was Re: Any Help At All (fwd) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 98 15:21:49 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1393 On 8/3/98 2:59 PM, Mark D Bej (bejm@eeg.ccf.org) wrote: >These were my main complaints. The layout is, in Armstrongish style, a >mastery of compaction and placing one thing onto another. The ability to >run it as a dogbone or as a loop is also quite interesting. Being that it >passes the territory of the EBT, I'm surprised no 3' gauge (and dual guage!) >trackage was added. Glad I didn't get into too much trouble quoting our Dean of Layout Design and Signalling from memory! It's not too often that you can justifiably get critical of Armstrong, but this layout has numerous problems as Mark eludes to. I pore over tons of Armstrong books for ideas of how to do more in less space. They are truly inspirational! ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:54:00 -0500 From: "Laird, Bill (GWise)" Subject: Re: [PRR] Concerning Horseshoe Curve was Re: Any Help At All Content-Length: 1814 Date: 08/03/1998 07:56 pm (Monday) From: Bill Laird To: INET.MAIL("PRR-Talk@dsop.com") Subject: Re: [PRR] Concerning Horseshoe Curve was Re: Any Help At All -Reply -Reply >>> Jerry at PRR-Talk@dsop.com 08/03/98 12:20pm wrote, in part>>> >>>At the April PRRT&HS convention, Mark Bej made some very good points about "how bad this layout is" from an operational standpoint. Basically, an eastbound train that wants to enter the Altoona yard, must change to the outer mainline track just after leaving Altoona (heading east) so it can hit the yard on the next pass. There is no crossover anywhere on the mountain. Amazing!!! Actually, Mark was speaking of the layout in the "20 Railroads You Can Model". That Horseshoe layout was based apparently on the one mentioned above, and repeated the error in design, per Mark. <<< ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ First, let me say that since posting a request earlier today for a copy of the horsehsoe curve trackplan and article from _More Railroads You Can Model_ , I have received several offers. Thank you all. This is another example of just what a great resourse base this list is and just how great the members are in their willingness to share. Second, Jerry's response (above) brings up the question, "is there a good trackplan" that anyone has developed for the horseshoe curve area? Bill Laird ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 16:13:18 -0400 From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: Re: [PRR] TrucTrain Routing (fwd) Content-Length: 2057 The notes on TT-6 mentions that it sets off Block 3 at Lancaster. The Lancaster ramp was deep inside Dillerville yard ( at what is now the west end of the new yard office). I would hazard the guess, that this train came up the Columbia Branch to drop off its Block. The schedule as posted, is from 1959, I would also guess there would have been an increase in TOFC and COFC form the Port of Philadelphia in the later 60's. These are the trains that probably saw passing through Mount Joy. I doubt that they did any work at Lancaster. I do remember seeing TTX cars stored east of the Lancaster Station in the late 60's. cos Mark D Bej wrote: > > The 1959 Freight Schedules on Mark Bej's site do show STATE. So as of > > that date, they did go through Harrisburg. Another response placed them > > in Mount Joy (between Lancaster and Middletown) which is also on the > > passenger line. > > I see the problem. > > >From the perspective of having typed in a large number of these schedules, > the stong sense I get is that A&S trains went thru Enola (DAY, CLY), whereas > main line trains went thru STATE. > > The only one seems certain is TT-6, which stops in Lancaster -- though it > _could have_, I guess, take the Columbia Branch from Royalton to Columbia to > Lancaster...! > > -- > Mark > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Concerning Horseshoe Curve was Re: Any Help At All (fwd) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 16:38:34 EDT Content-Length: 1708 > First, let me say that since posting a request earlier today for a copy of > the horsehsoe curve trackplan and article from _More Railroads You Can > Model_ , I have received several offers. Thank you all. This is another > example of just what a great resourse base this list is and just how great > the members are in their willingness to share. > > Second, Jerry's response (above) brings up the question, "is there a > good trackplan" that anyone has developed for the horseshoe curve > area? Bill, it really depends on what YOU want to model. And what you want to run. Is your primary interest modelling a large yard (Altoona)? Do you prefer small yards and local shifting (Lewistown)? Do you want freights going up hills (bag Altoona yard, do the CURVE!) Do you want to run passenger trains or freights, or a prototypical mix? Do you want to model trackage arrangements accurately, and just run trains? Do you want each freight car to be a work of art (and the track is there only for the car to sit on something, and maybe even run sometimes)? Do you want to scratchbuild/customize lots of engines? (Build the Juniata Works, forget the yard and Curve.) Decide these things, and come up with a basic track plan. Scan it in, or let Jerry post it, and we'll all take turns critiquing it. -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 17:29:02 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] Concerning Horseshoe Curve Content-Length: 741 Laird, Bill (GWise) wrote: > > ...Second, Jerry's response (above) brings up the question, "is there > a good trackplan" that anyone has developed for the horseshoe curve > area? > Model Railroader had an article in the April, 1940, issue on layout ideas for the Gallitzin/Cresson area, which included a detailed trackplan with signals. Any interest? Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Stephen R. Sejda" Subject: [PRR] eBay Heads Up: 1923 CT1000_C_ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 18:20:40 -0400 Content-Length: 577 Greetings to the group. Anybody looking for a 1923 CT1000_C_ ? Someone has a copy up for sale on eBay at this link: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=23925475 Happy Shopping! Steve Sejda ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 18:41:53 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Concerning Horseshoe Curve Content-Length: 1284 In a message dated 98-08-03 17:39:51 EDT, Laird, Bill (GWise) wrote: > ...Second, Jerry's response (above) brings up the question, "is there > a good trackplan" that anyone has developed for the horseshoe curve > area? > At Kansas City I was fortunate to operate on Doug Taylor's PRR Harrisburg (staging) to Crestline (staging). Altoona trackage through Pittsuburgh with several branches is modeled. My understanding was that his layout, designed by John Armstrong, was in a spring issue of MR. His EBT was the cover story on Rail Model Journal recently. He has captured most of the trackage Altoona to Gallitzin and the layout has full-working position light signals. WAs there a layout diagram with the MR article, for those who might have seen it? Also, John Armstrong had a Horseshoe Curve article in an MR in 50's or 60's, I belivieve (check the Accurail website magazine index). Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Concerning Horseshoe Curve Date: Mon, 3 Aug 98 20:16:25 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1618 On 8/3/98 6:41 PM, Bobspf@aol.com (Bobspf@aol.com) wrote: >At Kansas City I was fortunate to operate on Doug Taylor's PRR Harrisburg >(staging) to Crestline (staging). Altoona trackage through Pittsuburgh with >several branches is modeled. My understanding was that his layout, designed >by John Armstrong, was in a spring issue of MR. His EBT was the cover story >on Rail Model Journal recently. He has captured most of the trackage Altoona >to Gallitzin and the layout has full-working position light signals. WAs >there a layout diagram with the MR article, for those who might have seen it? >Also, John Armstrong had a Horseshoe Curve article in an MR in 50's or >60's, I >belivieve (check the Accurail website magazine index). There was a track plan included. Operationally, in generic terms, it looked good. For the Pennsy rivet counter, I feel it is somewhat disappointing. Another case where the tunnels at the summit didn't have much separation (horiz. or vert.), among other problems. Still, quite a setup. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Knepper" Subject: Re: [PRR] Concerning Horseshoe Curve Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 20:34:41 -0500 Content-Length: 2108 Hello, Have any of you ever seen the curve layout at "Pauls Hobbies" in New Oxford before it closed? The layout is still there, just the business closed. It was about 12-14 foot across and 30 foot long as I remember, 4 track all the way..... Bill ---------- > From: Bobspf@aol.com > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Concerning Horseshoe Curve > Date: Monday, August 03, 1998 5:41 PM > > In a message dated 98-08-03 17:39:51 EDT, > Laird, Bill (GWise) wrote: > > > ...Second, Jerry's response (above) brings up the question, "is there > a > good trackplan" that anyone has developed for the horseshoe curve > > area? > > > At Kansas City I was fortunate to operate on Doug Taylor's PRR Harrisburg > (staging) to Crestline (staging). Altoona trackage through Pittsuburgh with > several branches is modeled. My understanding was that his layout, designed > by John Armstrong, was in a spring issue of MR. His EBT was the cover story > on Rail Model Journal recently. He has captured most of the trackage Altoona > to Gallitzin and the layout has full-working position light signals. WAs > there a layout diagram with the MR article, for those who might have seen it? > Also, John Armstrong had a Horseshoe Curve article in an MR in 50's or 60's, I > belivieve (check the Accurail website magazine index). > > Bob Zoeller > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 09:54:10 +0000 From: zeolla@erols.com Subject: [PRR] Interesting item on eBay web site item#23160419: Varney Content-Length: 1164 I saw this item for sale at eBay, the world's largest personal trading community, and thought that you might be interested. Title of item: Varney Aerotrain Seller: dst8596587@aol.com Starts: 07/28/98 12:17:30 PDT Ends: 08/04/98 12:17:30 PDT Price: Currently $71.00 To bid the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=23160419 Item Description: Varney Aerotrain consisting of a powered unit, four coaches and one observation. Color is silver with orange trim. In very good condition with only normal handeling wear. Paint is very good with one very small chip above window post on engine cab. Do not have original boxes. No diaphrams for coaches. Buyer to pay for shipping. Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading Community at http://www.ebay.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 4 Aug 98 8:04:03 EDT From: Subject: fwd: [PRR] St. Louis Content-Length: 2466 Greetings from Hershey, PA. Larry, I used to be stationed at Scott Air Force base outside of St Louis and traveled into the city on numerous occasions. Normally I would make the trip via the interstate highway but one several occasions I would travel through East St Louis (which is on the east side of the Mississippi) to get there. Apparently East St Louis had a major rail yard. There are several concrete bridges that carried the tracks over the roads that have PRR & the Keystone embossed into the concrete. Its been many years since I've been there last and I wasn't very familiar with the streets and roads names/numbers so I can't be of more help with directions. Maybe other list members can be more precise. One thing to keep in mind though is that E. St Louis is not (IMHO) the best section of town to travel in. So beware and have a full tank of gas. ------------- Original Text From: Larry and Phyllis Morgan , on 7/28/98 10:37 AM: To: SMTP@193SOG@PAMDT["PRR-TALK" ] I am planning a short trip with my wife to St. Louis in late August. Any suggestion for PRR related activities. We would like information about: former PRR sites, especially those that are still standing, good places to watch trains, especially former PRR locations, museums with former PRR equipment - the national transportation museum is not mentioned in tourists guides and any information would be useful, railroad bridges across the Mississippi or Missouri, especially former PRR bridges, Alton, Illinois, where we will actually stay, and PRR connections if there are any, anything else this group might suggest. Thanks in advance, Larry Morgan ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] TerraServer Satellite Views Date: Tue, 4 Aug 98 13:14:06 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1527 Some interesting locales on the TerraServer...aerial views of: Shocks Mill Bridge http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/GetPageByXY.asp?XId=9416&YId=3697&SrcI d=1&ImgDate=04/06/1992&ImgSize=2&DSize=0 Columbia, Pa. http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/GetPageByXY.asp?XId=9422&YId=3693&SrcI d=1&ImgDate=04/08/1993&ImgSize=2&DSize=0 Dual Bridges at Safe Harbor http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/GetPageByXY.asp?XId=9428&YId=3684&SrcI d=1&ImgDate=04/06/1992&ImgSize=1&DSize=0 Location of junction of Atglen & Susquehanna Branch and Columbia & Port Deposit Branch http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/GetPageByXY.asp?XId=9429&YId=3682&SrcI d=1&ImgDate=04/23/1992&ImgSize=1&DSize=0 Martic Forge Bridge http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/GetTileByClick.asp?XId=9430&YId=3682&S rcId=1&ImgDate=04/23/1992&ImgSize=0&DSize=0&W=225&H=150&ClickAt=?209,3 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] TAN: Dupes & Plan of Action Date: Tue, 4 Aug 98 14:19:00 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 2458 As many of you know, the duplicate messages are not gone, but do seem to have subsided somewhat. It "seems" that the latest revision of our web server does not get along well with our list server... not unlike adding a kitten to a home with a three year old cat. The two seem to be having some territory problems!!! Anyway, the new rev of the web server must stay due to some long awaited features that will produce income and eventually offset some of the site's operating costs. So, I will continue to "tweak" and do what I can to make things more amiable. Long term, I have been planning to move the list server to its own machine. Many months ago I invested in a separate box which runs the router/gateway/firewall, mail server, and domain name server. That change has been golden. Sometimes I forget that it even exists! Anyway, the original machine runs the web server, ftp server, and list server. The ftp and web server will always be the same, as webmasters need to be able to update their sites. When financially possible, I will be buying a new box to dedicate to the list server. The cost is $400. I'll have a new CD-ROM of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings" coming out in the September time frame and that should yeild enough profit to cover it. CD sales -- and of course on going donations -- will be applied to the new box and, alas, to the hardware required to increase our bandwidth. Yes, we are finally nearing that point!!! So please continue with your patience. If you are particularly affected by the duplicates, please change your subscription to the digest mode for the duration. Again, my apologies. FOR MORE INFO: The new CD: http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/ds/ds/.html Donations: http://kc.pennsyrr.com/support.html ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Satellite Shot of ZOO & 30th Street Station Date: Tue, 4 Aug 98 15:07:23 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 872 More satellite shots from Microsoft's Terra Server... 30th Street Station and ZOO Interlocking: http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/GetPageByXY.asp?XId=9484&YId=3687&SrcI d=1&ImgDate=03/29/1992&ImgSize=1&DSize=1 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:24:33 EDT Subject: [PRR] Concerning Horseshoe Curve Content-Length: 1244 At the South Penn Model RR we are presently constructing a model of the curve in HO. It is approx. 12 x 36 feet, all 4track and will end for this year in a 2track dogbone at the top. Next year we will remove the dogbone and model the tunnels and the loop at Gallitizin with the main continuing WB. Our landlord is comtemplating a fire exit; if this comes to pass we will continue the grade and place Gallitizin at 6'8" with viewing platforms; if not we will put the tunnels and the loop at the present dogbone and proceed downgrade. Only 8 feet of benchwork remains to be done, roadbed is in to the center of the curve, track is complete to the bottom of the curve, and we will begin scenery around Sept. 1. We will be up and running before our show which starts Thanksgiving weekend. Any advice on modeling the tunnels and the loop would be appreciated. TIA Jerry Finefrock ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:46:46 EDT Subject: [PRR] Paul's Hobby Shop - New Oxford... Content-Length: 639 Someone had written in about Paul's PRR HC layout...in the coach. We had stopped by there, while chasing Rdg 2102 with WM FAs on the Dutch line, must have been.....1972..??....Neat trip !! The movies show snow in April... Is the layout still accessible...?? Thanks, Bill. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 20:39:09 EDT Subject: [PRR] The Purple Emperor Content-Length: 2104 Some time back there was a thread about the source of the name for the PRR train The Purple Emperor. Speculation was that it was from a story by Rudyard Kipling and in fact it is. The title of the short story is ".007" written in 1898. 007 is the number of a new 4-4-0 locomotive purchased by a railroad in New York State. In the story the locomotives and cars are alive and talk to each other. The Purple Emperor was the line's crack passenger locomotive and is described as follows: "Now I'll show you something worth." said Pony, an 0-6-0 switcher. "When the Purple Emperor ain't on time, it's about time to amend the constitution. The first stroke of twelve is--" "Boom!" went the clock on the big yard tower, and far away .007 heard a full vibrating "Yah! Yah! Yah!" A headlight twinkled on the horizon like a star, grew to an overpowering blaze, and whooped up the humming track to the roaring music of a happy giant's song: "With a michnai--ghignai--shtingal! "Yah! Yah! Yah! Ein--zwei--drei, Mutter! "Yah! Yah! Yah! She climb upon der shteeple, Und she frighten all der people, Singin' michnai--ghignai--shtingal! "Yah! Yah!" The last defiant "Yah! Yah!" was delivered a mile and a half beyond the passenger depot; but .007 had caught one glimpse of the superb six-wheel coupled racing-locomotive, who hauled the pride and glory of the road--the gilt-edged Purple Emperor, the millionaires' southbound express, laying miles over his shoulder as a man peels shavings from a soft board. The rest was a blur of maroon enamel, a bar of white light from the electrics in the cars, and a flicker of nickel-plated handrail on the rear platform. "Ooh!" said .007 Harold Modeling the Middle Division ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RLA0220@webtv.net (RICHARD ADER) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:19:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Lamokin Tower Content-Length: 673 Hi, Anyone in the Philadelphia area who can give me directions to the old Lamokin Tower? I have been told the building is still there and it is in a bad neighborhood. I was hoping for a possible drive bye photoghaph. As I stated before I only saw it from the rails in my PENN CENTRAL days. Thanks. Rich ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 22:13:42 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] The Purple Emperor Content-Length: 583 Only thing, Harold....there was ' speculation ' among us if that PRR name **Might** have come from this source. Only the PRR Marketing Dept. / clerk / creator back then *knows* for sure.. Neat book, huh...????? ..Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ken Reinert Subject: Re: [PRR] Paul's Hobby Shop - New Oxford... Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 22:58:28 -0400 (EDT) Content-Length: 946 PRRSignals@aol.com wrote: > Someone had written in about Paul's PRR HC layout...in the coach. > > Is the layout still accessible...?? Thanks, Bill. Last I heard, the shop was being sold -- this was, oh, late last year... I've not bothered to go by there on my last few treks up to Reading, since (without the stop in New Oxford) the drive on Route 30 through York and Lancaster is a bear... so I don't know what's left, if anything. (I can stop and railfan all I want, as long as my wife has something else to do, so that precludes taking the "scenic route"...) Ken ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Paul's Hobby Shop - New Oxford... Date: Wed, 5 Aug 98 06:34:36 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1590 On 8/4/98 10:58 PM, Ken Reinert (kreinert@erols.com) wrote: >Last I heard, the shop was being sold -- this was, oh, late last year... >I've not bothered to go by there on my last few treks up to Reading, since >(without the stop in New Oxford) the drive on Route 30 through York and >Lancaster is a bear... so I don't know what's left, if anything. (I can >stop and railfan all I want, as long as my wife has something else to do, >so that precludes taking the "scenic route"...) I went by about a month ago. Both rail cars are still there, with a FOR SALE sign up. It's been closed around a year now. Some time prior to its close, I had stopped by, found the door locked, and a sign saying "Be right back, at xxx up the street". "xxx" was the name of a small shop about a block away that sells Marklin and those other foreign larger scale models. They explained that they had just acquired that shop and would be expanding it. Didn't realize they would be closing the old shop at the time. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 09:48:07 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: [PRR] More Job Evals Content-Length: 1321 Bill, More of the same, with the dupes of your posting deleted, from a Spam-list I seem to be on ("BridgePath): "Quotes from actual Federal Employee performance evaluations: "Since my last report, he has reached rock bottom and has started to dig." "His men would follow him anywhere, but only out of morbid curiosity." "This employee is not so much of a has-been, but more of a definite won't be." "When she opens her mouth, it seems that this is only to change whichever foot was previously in there." "He would be out of his depth in a parking lot puddle." "This young lady has delusions of adequacy." "She sets low personal standards and then consistently fails to achieve them." "This employee should go far-- and the sooner he starts, the better." "This employee is depriving a village somewhere of an idiot." "Not the sharpest knife in the drawer." "Got into the gene pool when the lifeguard wasn't looking." Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrew Harmantas" Subject: [PRR] Re: Fw: REPOWERING MP SHARKS Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 07:04:16 PDT Content-Length: 1503 I have some new Model Power A unit dummies and would like to power them.>has>> anyone repowered these RF-16 Model Power Sharks? I'd like to use Athearn>> motors and trucks or a complete chassis. Anyone have experence with>changing>> over to Athearn or any other chassis. ____________________________ I did something similar by using Athearn F-7 mechanisms. The truck spacing looked close enough to me, and it slips up inside the Model Power shell without too much filing of the frame. I body mount my KD 5's on styrene pads, so remove that part of the frame that Athearn mounts the NMRA coupler (yes, that's what it's called--NMRA coupler). It simplifies getting the shell on and off. Nothing quite like using the same family of power for most of a model railroad. The real 1:1 scale RR's kept re-discovering this truth every few years. Odd-ball, one-of-a-kind drive systems (or power plants), if nothing else, keep the shop forces (or the mechanically inclined modeler) busy. Andrew Harmantas ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 10:18:33 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] More Job Evals Content-Length: 511 *Steve...were those job evaluations of....NYC people working at 6 Penn Center after 2 / 01 / 68.......hahhaha.....A JOKE MAX....A JOKE....hahhaa...bill* ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] REPOWERING MP SHARKS Date: Wed, 5 Aug 98 11:16:40 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1486 On 8/5/98 10:04 AM, Andrew Harmantas (frisco484@hotmail.com) wrote: > I have some new Model Power A unit dummies and would like to power >them.>has>> anyone repowered these RF-16 Model Power Sharks? I'd like to >use Athearn>> motors and trucks or a complete chassis. Anyone have >experence with>changing>> over to Athearn or any other chassis. You can also do as I did: You can (I believe) still get powered Sharks from Walthers in NYC and some other road names. All you gotta do is repaint them, but you'll have to do that anyway as the MP Sharks that came in Pennsy livery were incorrectly painted Tuscan when they should have been DGLE. I picked up two used powered units from eBay which seem to run decent. They are awaiting repainting, along with two unpowered units. Didn't snag any B units, yet. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 11:49:55 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: [PRR] Re: More Job Evals - Apology Content-Length: 553 To the Group, A sincere apology if my totally Non-railroad posting got in the way. I carelessly confused two email addresses, both starting with "PRR." Steve Bartlett Bill, Oops!! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Trains Unlimited Date: Wed, 5 Aug 98 12:37:55 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 808 Anyone know if the "Trains Unlimited" series on The History Channel has been renewed for a third year? (I need to know if I got a fix coming or not!) ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Trains Unlimited From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 98 13:59:35 -0400 Content-Length: 701 Anyone know if the "Trains Unlimited" series on The History Channel has been renewed for a third year? (I need to know if I got a fix coming or not!) - ------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF I believe they have moved it to Thursday nites (The nite my model RR club meets - - thats what VCRs are for) regards Andy Miller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 10:16:12 -0800 From: Ron Dugas Subject: [PRR] "More RR's" Horseshoe Layout. Content-Length: 3323 Hi All, Reading Mark's description of the Horseshoe Curve layout in "20 RR's you can model" leads me to the belief that it is not the same layout as the one in "More RR's you can model". With your indulgence I'll attempt to describe the track layout of the "More RR's" one. In general the layout is a folded figure eight. It leaves Altoona and goes around an approx 100 degree turn to Slope, Goes around the Curve, makes an 180 degree turn to go through the tunnels which hide another 90 degree turn, through Cresson and disappears into a tunnel or cut west of Cresson. In this tunnel it makes a 360 degree loop to emerge at the lower level at the approach to Antis. From Antis it makes another approx. 100 degree turn back to East Altoona. Starting at the approach to Antis the tracks are as follows: 3 tracks out of the loop tunnel. From north, tracks 3, 2 and 1. Just outside the tunnel a signal bridge. Crossover from track 3 to 2. Crossover from track 2 to 1. Crossover from track 1 to 2. At Antis the yard lead diverges from track 1 under a signal bridge. 100 degree curve. At the East end of Altoona track 3 splits into tracks 3 and 4. Tracks 2, 3 and 4 go through the passenger shed at Altoona. Track 1 goes in front of passenger shed. Helper pocket? diverges from track 4. Tracks 1 and 2 converge. Crossover from yard lead to track 1/2 and crossover from 3 to 4 at west signal bridge. Track 1/2 diverges into tracks 1 and 2. 4 tracks around 100 degree turn to Slope. Crossover from 2 to 3. Crossover from 3 to 4. Horseshoe Curve. 180 degree turn. Crossovers from 1 to 2 and from 4 to 3. X Crossover between 2 and 3 at MG. Tracks pairs 1-2 and 3-4 diverge slightly approaching tunnels. No apparent elevation change between track pairs approaching tunnels. Crossover from 3 to 4. Tracks 3 and 4 diverge slightly. Alleghany Tunnel east portals. Crossover from 2 to 1. Portage Tunnel east portal. West portals. Return "balloon" track with loco service facility between tracks 3 and 2. Crossover from 2 to 3. Crossover from 1 to 2 and tracks 3 and 4 converge into one track. Switches from 2 and 3 to a stub track between them. 3 track into tunnel/cut to hidden connection returning to Antis. The yards are fairly vestigial but functional. One runner track off lead, two ladder tracks, one cabin track, another runner track with access to combined steam/diesel engine terminal. Hope this isn't too confusing. All descriptions are from RR East to West and follow the order they appear to Westbound trains. Features in the same sentence are approx. next to each other. Thought about trying to show it in ASCII but gave up. I'll have to try to get a look at the layout in "20 RR's" to compare. All in all this layout seems to be fairly operational and seems to keep important features of the area but I'd like Mark's and other's thoughts on this layout. Anyway, there it is for your perusal. Ron. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Trains Unlimited Date: Wed, 5 Aug 98 14:39:49 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 944 On 8/5/98 1:59 PM, Andrew S. Miller (asmiller@mail11.mitre.org) wrote: >I believe they have moved it to Thursday nites (The nite my model RR club >meets >- - thats what VCRs are for) Works for me....Monday Night Football bekons! ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 11:56:02 -0700 From: Craig Bowman Subject: [PRR] TrucTrain trailers Content-Length: 1327 Now for something truly arcane. In the middle 50's, trailers were loaded on TrucTrains "circus-style", that is, they were backed down the length of the flatcars. Thus the fronts of the trailers faced east on a west-bound train. If no changes occurred, when the trailers were unloaded out west, the trailers would still be facing east. My question: when/where was the train turned, or were the various terminals at each end of the line oriented so that one set of ramps complemented the direction of the others? I've wondered about this ever since I noticed a photo of a west-bound TT somewhere east of Harrisburg with all of the trailers facing east. Another photo from the mid-50's shows F-units pulling a TT or LCL train west out of Enola, and all of the trailers visible are now facing west! (I know, I know; I've got way too much time on my hands!) Can anyone comment on the direction of trailer facings in the mid-50's? Craig Bowman ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Trains Unlimited Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 15:14:37 -0400 Content-Length: 1458 Jerry, Check out http://www.historychannel.com/ and let them know how you feel. Jerry Breon -----Original Message----- From: Jerry To: PRR-Talk Date: Wednesday, August 05, 1998 1:10 PM Subject: [PRR] Trains Unlimited >Anyone know if the "Trains Unlimited" series on The History Channel has >been renewed for a third year? (I need to know if I got a fix coming or >not!) > >------------------------------------------------------------------ >Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com >Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com >Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > >Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com >The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! > > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kevin Tully" Subject: Re: [PRR] REPOWERING MP SHARKS Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 12:45:27 PDT Content-Length: 974 To all, If you are able to restrain yourselves long enough (a few months) Liberty Models will be producing frames for the A and B units that will accept Athearn trucks and be ready to accept Athearn motors, but will come with a cradle that the modeler can use to add weight and use an ALCo Products or NWSL (Sagami) motor. We will also be producing frames for the Model Power C430 and Atlas C424/425 that will accept Athearn trucks/motor. Kevin J. Tully Pennsylvania Tool & Die Co. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 15:01:32 -0500 From: "Laird, Bill (GWise)" Subject: [PRR] PRR Layouts (was Concerning Horseshoe Curve) -Long Content-Length: 7974 Date: 08/05/1998 08:59 pm (Wednesday) From: Bill Laird To: INET.MAIL("PRR-Talk@dsop.com") Subject: [PRR] PRR Layouts (was Concerning Horseshoe Curve) -Long The recent discussions regarding track plans for modeling the horseshoe curve area bring to light a much bigger question of track plans available for modeling the Pennsylvania Railroad. How does one go about capturing the essence of the *Standard Railroad of the World* in a reasonable space, with limited funds and time? There are probably as many answers to that question as there are modelers. One thing that might help a PRR modeler in trying to decide what to model would be a good reference on published track plans that are distinctively Pennsy. I imagine that the members of PRR-Talk collectively possess this information to a greater degree than any other group. I would like to propose that we, the members of PRR-Talk, create such a reference and that Jerry, or one of the other PRR web sites, consider posting the completed list. I will start off by offering a some incomplete references and challenging others to add information about these and others track plans about which they are knowledgeable. *Altoona to Pittsburgh over Horse Shoe Curve*, by Doug Taylor, published in the May 1998 issue of Model Railroader. HO scale. *Lessons of the South Penn*, by Neal Schorr, published in the April 1997 issue of Model Railroader (an earlier article appeared in the May 1990 issue of Model Railroader). Models the never completed South Pennsylvania RR from Conway Yard west of Pittsburgh to Enola Yard near Harrisburg over what is in reality today the Pennsylvania Turnpike. HO scale, 16' by 24', 30" minimum radius curves, number 6 turnouts, 1.8% maximum grade, walk around design. Mid to large size layout. *Pennsylvania Railroad Middle and Pittsburgh Divisions*, by John Armstrong, published in _Twenty Custom Designed Track Plans_, Kalmbach Publishers. Models Harrisburg to Pittsburgh (both represented by loops) over Horseshoe Curve including representation of Altoona. Features Spruce Tunnels, Jacks Narrows along the Juniata River, a steel mill, jumpover track, Rockville Bridge, Cresson, Gallitizin, Allegheny and New Portage Tunnels. S scale, 24' by 32', 48" minimum radius mainline curves, mostly number 6 turnouts, 2.5% maximum grade, walk around design. Large size layout. *A Bedroom-sized HO Pennsy Layout*, by John Winter, published in the March 1997 issue of Model Railroader. HO scale. *Horse Shoe Curve*, by Franklin Doeringer, published in the September 1996 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman. N scale, 8' by 10', circa 1870's. *Pennsylvania Railroad Northeastern Division*, by Dave Messer, published in the June 1996 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman. HO scale. *What If The Pennsylvania Railroad Had Taken Over*, by Dave Messer, published in the October 1995 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman. 23 1/2' by 32'. *Ken McCorry*s Pennsylvania Railroad*, published in the March 1994 issue of Railmodel Journal. HO scale, 31' by 79', bi-level. *The Pennsylvania RR, Eastern Division*, by Bill Gruber, published in the August 1993 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman. HO scale. *Ken McCorry*s Buffalo Line Pennsylvania Railroad*, published in the May 1993 issue of Railmodel Journal (a n earlier article appeared in the November 1992 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman). HO scale, 16' by 32', four levels. *Bob Davis* Pennsylvania Railroad Blue Mountain Division*, published in the March 1993 issue of Railmodel Journal. HO scale. *It*s September 1950 on the PRR*, by Dave Frary, published in the January 1993 issue of Model Railroader. HO scale. *Pennsylvania Railroad*, by Dave Frary, a nine part series published in Model Railroader beginning in January 1993. The series of articles were also later published by Kalmbach as a book _The Pennsy Middle Division in HO Scale_. HO scale, 11' by 16'. *Gary Salzgaber*s HO Pennsylvania Middle Division*, by Jim Hediger, published in the March 1992 issue of Model Railroader (earlier articles appeared in the March 1889 issue of Model Railroading and the March 1981 issue of Model Railroader). HO scale, 22' by 33', *E* shaped layout. *Dave Messer*s Pennsylvania Northern Railroad*, published in the February 1990 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman. HO scale. *Pennsylvania Railroad Harrisburg to Buffalo, New York*, by Mark Olstyn, published in the November 1989 issue of Model Railroading. HO scale. * Remembering the Pennsylvania RR*, by Ken Pearson, published in the November 1988 issue of Model Railroader. HO scale, giant layout. *Joe Folco*s Pennsylvania Railroad*, published in the May 1986 issue of Model Railroading. HO scale, 21' by 22'. *The Central Ontario goes Pennsy*, by Eric Brunger, published in the September 1985 issue of Model Railroader. O scale, 32' by 32'. *Bellefonte Central and Pennsylvania Railroad Interchange*, by Robert Schleicher, published in the March 1985 issue of Model Railroading. HO Scale, 9' by 12'. *Pennsylvania Railroad Mainline*, by Robert Schleicher, published in the March 1985 issue of Model Railroading. N scale, 9' by 12', and HO scale 18' by 24'. *Silk City Model Railroad Club Pennsylvania Railroad*, published in the January 1985 issue of Model Railroading. HO scale, 40' by 100'. *Timefreeze: 1946 on the PRR*, by Jim Schwingle, published in the November 1983 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman. HO scale, 10' by 25'. *Al Notarione*s Pennsylvania and Westbrook Railroad*, by Bram Bailey, published in the November 1982 issue of Model Railroader. HO scale. *North Penn Club*s North Pennsylvania Railroad Company, Ltd.*, by Dave Reichey, published in the March 1982 issue of Model Railroader. HO scale. *Pennsylvania Railroad Seashore Lines*, by Louis Fols, published in the August 1978 issue of Model Railroader. N scale. *Pennsylvania Railroad Scioto Valley Subdivision*, by Lloyd Miller, published in the June 1977 issue of Model Railroader. HO scale, 8' by 22'. *Pennsylvania, Santa Fe and Pacific System*, by David Waddington, published in the October 1976 issue of Model Railroader. O scale. *Dick Kendall*s Pennsylvania Railroad Grayton Road Division*, by Don Coppola, published in the October 1975 issue of Model Railroader. HO scale, includes horseshoe curve. *Richard Bradley*s Pennsylvania and Maryland Railroad*, published in the September 1972 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman. HO scale. *Alex Landesco*s Pennsylvania Model Railroad*, published in the July 1965 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman. HO scale. *Maryland and Pennsylvania*, by Model Railroader Staff, a multi-part series published in Model Railroader beginning in December 1964. HO scale. *A. A. Landesco Jr.*s Pennsylvania Model Railroad*, published in the April 1964 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman. HO scale. *Zoo Junction - A Super Plan for a Club*, by Paul W. Borthwick, published in the December 1958 issue of Model Railroader. HO scale. *Pennsylvania Railroad*, by John Armstrong, published in the July 1954 issue of Model Railroader. HO scale, 12' by 19', includes horseshoe curve. *Roy Wagner*s Pennsylvania Southern*, published in the April 1947 issue of Model Railroader. O scale, 22' by 26' *Gallitizin/Cresson Area*, published in the April 1940 issue of Model Railroader. *The Pennsylvania Model Railroad*, by Harry Albrecht, published in the January 1934 issue of Model Railroader. HO scale. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 15:13:06 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] HO PRR Decals Content-Length: 2044 Hi all, 2 quick qestions: 1) Anyone have a phone # for Middle Division Decals? I sent an order in April and still haven't seen it! On the plus side, the check wasn't cashed either. 2) Anyone have any ideas for sources of HO scale PRR express reefer (R50, R60) decals? The paint on my Railworks R60 looks nice, but some letters would make it look a lot better! I'm looking for pre 1953 gold lettering, and while I can piece everything else together form "headend" sets, the one thing I am missing is "REFRIGERATOR" lettering. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary works in Braille. ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 17:45:32 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] REPOWERING MP SHARKS Content-Length: 1531 In a message dated 98-08-05 17:24:51 EDT, Kevin Tully writes: << If you are able to restrain yourselves long enough (a few months) Liberty Models will be producing frames for the A and B units that will accept Athearn trucks and be ready to accept Athearn motors, but will come with a cradle that the modeler can use to add weight and use an ALCo Products or NWSL (Sagami) motor. We will also be producing frames for the Model Power C430 and Atlas C424/425 that will accept Athearn trucks/motor. >> Not to be a smartass, but why? My Model Power Shark was an infinitely better runner than any Athearn locomotive built before I began tinkering with it to put decoders in (now the A is stil OK, but the B has a little growl--both crawl smoothly). Was later production of poorer quality? I don't have a C424/425: was that chassis worse than Atlas usual best? My RS3 and S2 are among the best running locomotives I have ever run. My biggest complaint about the sharks was that NWSL doesn't supply replacement solid nickel silver wheels like they do for Athearn: I admit keeping the wheels clean is a chore. Bob Zoeller Fox Point, WI ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Thomas K. Trower" Subject: [PRR] philly fanning Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 20:26:51 -0400 Content-Length: 803 I now have a web page, to be updated further soon Tell me what you think: www.geocities.com/motorcity/track/8910/ I will be taking a seven day amtrak ride/railfan trip starting tomorow, we will be through Philly, any good spots to catch SEPTA and AMTK? Our final destination is Sandpatch. Is there a Transit stop(rail or subway]that is close to Zoo Interlocking?? What spots give you a good view of the plant? thanks Josh Trower ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 17:42:45 -0700 From: ironhorse@sprintmail.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: More Job Evals - Apology Content-Length: 1175 Steve, I don't know about anybody else, but I'm no purist when it comes to having the occassional laugh on the list, even if not RR related. Thanks for the mistake, I loved them. Charlie Fox Stephen Bartlett wrote: > > To the Group, > A sincere apology if my totally Non-railroad posting got in the way. I > carelessly confused two email addresses, both starting with "PRR." > > Steve Bartlett > > Bill, > Oops!! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:18:31 EDT Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Track Plans Content-Length: 911 Bill Laird & all Without getting up from my stiff old chair, didn't John Armstrong have a sizable track plan based on the Williamsport/Elmira Branch trackage in , was it "18 Tailor Made Track Plans"? I'll look it up, but it did have some good history . Regrettably, it was set in the early (ugh) Penn Central era. John also featured a Pennsy based layout in "Creative Track Planning", and one of his later books has a layout based on Richmond Ohio in the steam/diesil era. Gotta look closer, now that ya got my curiosity up. Later, Barry Peltier ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 22:16:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] REPOWERING MP SHARKS Content-Length: 851 On Wed, 5 Aug 1998 Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > My Model Power Shark was an infinitely better runner than any Athearn > locomotive built before I began tinkering with it to put decoders in (now the > A is stil OK, but the B has a little growl--both crawl smoothly). Was later > production of poorer quality? Quality of the various runs, well, it varied. Some have those nice powerful "fat" can motors, which others have motors which can barely pull the engine, or so it seems... -D ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 00:31:35 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR Layouts (was Concerning Horseshoe Curve) -Long Content-Length: 937 In a message dated 98-08-05 21:02:21 EDT, Bill Laird writes: << I will start off by offering a some incomplete references and challenging others to add information about these and others track plans about which they are knowledgeable. >> Wonderful job! Thanks. I know of at least one other around the room layout (maybe another John Armstrong) in the 50's or early 60's in MR. Basicly a large oval with a branchline, online coaling station. The magazine is in mover's boxes, but I might be able to find a photocopy in my files which gives the date. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] new Bowser PRR tender From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 98 08:39:47 -0400 Content-Length: 1458 Bowser's website has a picture of a new tender, advertised as a PRR 13,000 gallon car. Has anyone actually seen this? Is it any better than Bowser's previous tenders? Elliot Fishbein ========= It indeed is a 130P?? - THE CORRECT TENDER FOR A K4! For years Bowser (and PennLine) had put an L1 tender behind their K4s. I had kitbashed the 130P?? tender for my K4s from the "long distance" tender (210F??) that they offer with the I1. The new tender is not only correct for a K4, its a much better casting! The rivets are no longer 1950 technology. The irony is that the new tender I saw came with an L1 !! The old tender was the right one for L1s. regards Andy Miller - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Commuters to Harrisburg in 1954 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 98 10:41:14 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1419 I am creating a consolidated list of movements through Harrisburg Station for a 24 hour period in 1954. (This will be on the web when complete.) I have all of the passenger trains (54 of them!) from the Sept. 26 Form 1 Public Timetable of east-west trains (includes north-south trains). Absent are commuter trains between Philadelphia and Harrisburg. What Form # (schedule) would these be on and does anyone have one? I have an ETT coming from a "PRR-Talker" which will provide the freight info needed. I will "guestimate" times for movements of cars between trains and to/from the coach yard. Missing will be head-end car movements -- as these are not documented -- and motive power changes. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:38:36 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] To brass, or not to brass... Content-Length: 902 In a message dated 98-08-09 16:21:32 EDT, staffsgtyork@juno.com writes: << I've noticed that Railworks is bringing out an X50/51 boxcar, and Rail Classics is bringing out an X40 boxcar and a R-50B express reefer. Is there any resin, wood, or plastic kits available for these? >> Assuming you're talking HO, Red Ball made a wood/cast metal kit for the R-50B express reefer. Cast sides and ends were about 1/8" thick. Roof and interior form were solid wood. Made a HEAVY car! I don't think it's still available. John Keel ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RLA0220@webtv.net (RICHARD ADER) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:45:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Jerry's PRR museum note Content-Length: 1312 Gang, Does anyone know if the museum accepts volunteer help? I am a member of the PRRT&HS for three years now, and have offered one full weekend every other month to work at the Lewistown station, picking garbage, mowing lawn, planting/tending flowers, or whatever, numerous times. However my offers have fallen on deaf ears. Mr Kealy said to be patient. How long should I wait? I must admit if it were not for the PRR talkers I would have resigned long ago. At least you guys respond to me. I am willing to make the same offer to the museum if they accept volunteers. As for Lewistown, I wouldnt even pick up a gum wrapper. Any one else have any distastfulness with the Society protocall? (I use that terminology for lack of any other as I have met some very wonderful people in the society and I would be a dung hole to point the finger at those who have no control over such matters). Thanks. You guys are the best. Rich ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:52:33 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Commuters to Harrisburg in 1954 Content-Length: 1953 In a message dated 98-08-10 10:45:45 EDT, you write: << I have all of the passenger trains (54 of them!) from the Sept. 26 Form 1 Public Timetable of east-west trains (includes north-south trains). Absent are commuter trains between Philadelphia and Harrisburg. What Form # (schedule) would these be on and does anyone have one? I have an ETT coming from a "PRR-Talker" which will provide the freight info needed. I will "guestimate" times for movements of cars between trains and to/from the coach yard. Missing will be head-end car movements -- as these are not documented -- and motive power changes. >> ***Jerry, my 1954 PRR ETT will show them, shows all regular trains...it HAS to, to convey schedule authority. The ETT and Rule Book combined is our "Bible"..... And, check with Chuck B. for the 9 / 1954 Consist Book copy...it will show cars / set-outs / pick-ups, as in: Train #11, lists full consist in make-up order, days operated for EACH CAR......and destination of EACH CAR. For example, on #11: Except Sun / Mon, and Hol. " Express X-29, dest. Harrisburg" "Express B-60, dest. Harrisburg" "Express B-60 Gold Star, dest. Pittsburgh Div., To #13 Hbg." No guessing or speculating is needed at all !!!! With the ETT and Consist books, you can re-create >car - for - car< trains and psgr moves....EXACTLY. I did my research for my Northern Central this way... And....The motive power changes are why ALL thru trains had at least a 5 minute Ar/Lv spread. even "no station work" trains like #28 / 29, B'way Ltd. .Bill**** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Commuters to Harrisburg in 1954 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 98 12:22:51 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 2185 On 8/10/98 11:52 AM, PRRSignals@aol.com (PRRSignals@aol.com) wrote: >***Jerry, my 1954 PRR ETT will show them, shows all regular trains...it HAS >to, to convey schedule authority. The ETT and Rule Book combined is our >"Bible"..... Duh!!! With the ETT en route from you, I just didn't think that it would include them...but of course it does! > >And, check with Chuck B. for the 9 / 1954 Consist Book copy...it will show >cars / set-outs / pick-ups, as in: > >Train #11, lists full consist in make-up order, days operated for EACH >CAR......and destination of EACH CAR. Except for head-end cars, this I already have, from the Form 4. This book that you speak of, who published it, how big is it, and how do I go about getting a copy? > >For example, on #11: Except Sun / Mon, and Hol. " Express X-29, dest. >Harrisburg" >"Express B-60, dest. Harrisburg" "Express B-60 Gold Star, dest. Pittsburgh >Div., To #13 Hbg." No guessing or speculating is needed at all !!!! > >With the ETT and Consist books, you can re-create >car - for - car< trains >and psgr moves....EXACTLY. I did my research for my Northern Central this >way... EXACTLY what I am trying to do! The Form 4 shows what passenger cars need to go where, but no mention of baggage or head-end. Thanks for the tip. > >And....The motive power changes are why ALL thru trains had at least a 5 >minute Ar/Lv spread. even "no station work" trains like #28 / 29, B'way Ltd. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Jerry's PRR museum note Date: Mon, 10 Aug 98 13:31:12 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 3374 On 8/10/98 11:45 AM, RICHARD ADER (RLA0220@webtv.net) wrote: >Does anyone know if the museum accepts volunteer help? LOL!!! Yes, they accept...and require...volunteer help. It is volunteers that offer interpretation throughout the museum. It is volunteers that restore the equipment. It is volunteers -- or lack thereof -- that often prevents the outside yard from being open to the public at all times. Their site is at http://www.rrhistorical-2.com/frm/Welcome/welframe.htm There is a page on volunteer opportunities. If nothing else, join the Friends of the Railroad Museum. I did. For $25 a year you'll support the museum, get five issues of "The Milepost" a year (b/w mini-magazine), and free admission to the museum anytime (for yourself, spouse, children, and grandparents of your children!). >I am a member of >the PRRT&HS for three years now, and have offered one full weekend every >other month >to work at the Lewistown station, picking garbage, mowing lawn, >planting/tending flowers, or whatever, numerous times. >However my offers have fallen on deaf ears. >Mr Kealy said to be patient. How long should I wait? I must admit if >it were not for the PRR talkers I would have resigned long ago. At >least you guys respond to me. I am willing to >make the same offer to the museum if they >accept volunteers. As for Lewistown, I wouldnt even pick up a gum >wrapper. Any one >else have any distastfulness with the Society >protocall? (I use that terminology for lack of >any other as I have met some very wonderful people in the society and I >would be a dung hole to point the finger at those who have no control >over such matters). The majority opinion is that the society has deaf ears! Go back to the fact that they want to hear nothing of publishing an index of their archives on the net. That would be "giving away information". I view it as opening up shop to take orders! If I am correct, one must be a member of the society for five years running in order to serve on the board. I am only in year two. IMHO, we, the Internet "PRR-Talk" community, must move towards board representation. That is the only way we will get our ideas across and they will be forced to listen! However, we must also respect those who have served so long and so hard. I am currently writing a book that will be published by the society in 2000. I could not do that on my own. Jim Lynch has lent me images for the book. Chuck Blardone has been instrumental. "The Keystone" is a first class publication. My point: I don't want to burn bridges...I want to reinforce and expand them! ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:02:25 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Hunter" Subject: Re: [PRR] Jerry's PRR museum note Content-Length: 1256 Dear Richard, The museum at Strasburg has a considerable organization of volunteers called Friends of the Railroad Museum of Penna. I've been a member for I can't remember how long, since it started, and my only regret is that I live so far away that participation is impractical. But they get the benefit of my dues, and I have free admission to the museum If you would like to join, I'm sure you could find a member volunteering around there any time the musem is open. By all means, check it out. You could write to them care of the museum, too. Jim ************************************************************* James R. Hunter Department of Sociology Indiana University - Purdue University at Indianapolis 425 University Blvd. Indianapolis, IN 46202 office: 317-274-7998 E-mail: jhunter@iupui.edu ************************************************************* ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:45:29 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Jerry's PRR museum note Content-Length: 631 Write "Friends of the Railroad Museum of Pa" (Lancaster) They would be happy to have your help as a volunteer "Docent" (guide - explainer) or on restoration projects I am a member of the "FRM" also - but from Cleveland my contributions are strictly financial Dick Ross ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:44:32 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Is it real, or . . . Content-Length: 2365 >Can anyone comment on whether the Athearn 34' Cupola Caboose matches any >prototpe PRR cabin cars? There is a picture of it on pg 136 of the 1998 >Walthers HO catalogue. Ed, Sorry, the athearn car isn't a match for any PRR cars. For commercially available kits you have the following choices: N5A Bowser RTR (ready to run, with a few screws) N5C Bowser RTR (ready to run, with a few screws) N6A Gloor Craft wood kit (craftsman style) N6B Gloor Craft wood kit (craftsman style) ND (4 wheel bobber) Gloor Craft wood kit (craftsman style) N8 Pending from Liberty Models...resin kit The Bowser models are nice, but can be greatly improved by simply shaving off the molded on grabs and adding wire or plastic grabs, and windows. Also a repsint to a more appropriately red "Freight Car Color" is in order - the Bowser color is tooooooo brown. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary works in Braille. ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 98 16:02:29 CST Subject: Re: [PRR] Jerry's PRR museum note Content-Length: 1640 On Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:45:41 -0400 (ED, RICHARD ADER wrote: >Gang, >Does anyone know if the museum accepts volunteer help? I am a member of >the PRRT&HS for three years now, and have offered one full weekend every Hi, all, As far as I know, the RR Museum of PA at Strasburg has a very active volunteer program, including a magazine that comes out quarterly (I think). My experience with knowing a few of them leads to believe it's a good bunch. Living outside Chicago precludes my more active involvement (sob!) As for Lewistown, I wouldnt even pick up a gum >wrapper. Any one >else have any distastfulness with the Society >protocall? I don't know what the PRRT&HS did, but a few years ago they really brassed off some of the older local guys who had been "manning" the station, a few of whom I know. The result - some of them are no longer involved. I only heard their side of the story but it left me with the impression that some of the PRRT&HS guys have a talent for this - not wise in a volunteer (or anyother) organization. And trust me...this posting will not be the only one along these lines! PRR forever! Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:04:21 -0700 From: Craig Bowman Subject: [PRR] For Sale: HO Key T-1 Content-Length: 666 For Sale: HO Key/Samhongsa T-1, latest run, coast drive, #6111, with booster, factory paint, big round keystone on tender, correct for 1942. Best offer over $1600. Also, looking for Key H-6 tender only, with double rivet line for coal slope sheet on side. Please contact me off-line. Craig Bowman ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:08:28 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Commuters to Harrisburg in 1954 Content-Length: 670 In a message dated 98-08-10 14:36:40 EDT, Jerry writes: << This book that you speak of, who published it, how big is it, and how do I go about getting a copy? >> Chuck Blardone sells photocopies for various regions, divisions, eras (20's through Amtrak). Prices vary by number of pages. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:05:11 EDT Subject: [PRR] Emporium/ Railpace Content-Length: 1039 Dennis, The Railpace issue with the Emporium/Northern Central coverage is April, 1989. The article was titled "Railfanning Conrail's Buffalo Line", which seems to be a favorite area for many of us Pennsy fans. One fella had contacted them, or at least their website, and it seems they may be out. More than likely you've got a better connection to them than most of us, since the only number I saw listed was an automated one. Could you please post their current address and any good phone number to the Pennsy list? Some of the guys have been asking, and I imagine you could give them a better steer than I could, if I'm not being presumpuous. Thanks much. Barry Peltier ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 20:04:51 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Jerry's PRR museum note Content-Length: 731 I'm a member of the Maryland & Pennsylvania RR Preservation & Historical Society. The Ma&Pa NW-2 that's being restored at the Museum is being done with our memberships help. I would assume the other equipment is being helped along through volunteers. I would suggest contacting the Museum with the question as to when they work and what's required to volunteer. Roger ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 20:47:22 -0400 From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: Re: [PRR] Is it real, or . . . Content-Length: 3384 Howdy all. The old Mantua/Tyco caboose - mid to late 70's - could be kit-bashed into a nice/close N8. The article was in RMC, sorry mine are all packed away. The only major job was to cut the cupola out and turn it around. I still see them at swap meets and shows. Its not an exact match, but for about $20.00 - for the caboose, trucks, couplers, decals and misc detail parts - you can turn the caboose into a cabin. The last brass Alpha N8 I saw, they wanted over $100.00 for it. cos Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote: > >Can anyone comment on whether the Athearn 34' Cupola Caboose matches any > >prototpe PRR cabin cars? There is a picture of it on pg 136 of the 1998 > >Walthers HO catalogue. > > Ed, > > Sorry, the athearn car isn't a match for any PRR cars. For commercially > available kits you have the following choices: > > N5A Bowser RTR (ready to run, with a few screws) > N5C Bowser RTR (ready to run, with a few screws) > N6A Gloor Craft wood kit (craftsman style) > N6B Gloor Craft wood kit (craftsman style) > ND (4 wheel bobber) Gloor Craft wood kit (craftsman style) > > N8 Pending from Liberty Models...resin kit > > The Bowser models are nice, but can be greatly improved by simply shaving > off the molded on grabs and adding wire or plastic grabs, and windows. > Also a repsint to a more appropriately red "Freight Car Color" is in order > - the Bowser color is tooooooo brown. > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and > Director, Nucleic Acid Services > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > ******************************************************************************** > If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup > trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number > of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great > literary works in Braille. > ******************************************************************************** > Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com > _ _ > / \ / \ > ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ > |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:06:10 -0700 Subject: [PRR] PRR X31F From: staffsgtyork@juno.com Content-Length: 812 Hey All! 'Bout to order my X31F, but have a question. Are the 2D F12 trucks that Sunshine sells in white metal the same as the Bowser coil and leaf spring trucks in their X31 kits? Thanks, SSGT York _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:15:50 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] new Bowser PRR tender From: padraice@juno.com (Patrick M Egan) Content-Length: 2889 Actually, if you want to be really correct about it, the old tender appears to be decended from a casting produced by a company whose name I forgot about thirty years ago. It seems the Pennsy H9 2-8-0 castings date back to just after (maybe before) WWII to a company before Penn Line. The old K4/L1 tender was the H9 tender with a tender collar (coal boards) added. It wasn't correct for either the K4 or the L1. It sort of resembled the L1 tender, especially at a distance if you are nearsighted and forgot your glasses. Now, is somebody going to offer deals on the new tenders like Liberty did a few months ago on T1 boilers and tenders? Pat Egan On Mon, 10 Aug 98 08:39:47 -0400 asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) writes: > >Bowser's website has a picture of a new tender, advertised as a PRR >13,000 >gallon car. Has anyone actually seen this? Is it any better than >Bowser's >previous tenders? > >Elliot Fishbein >========= > >It indeed is a 130P?? - THE CORRECT TENDER FOR A K4! For years Bowser >(and >PennLine) had put an L1 tender behind their K4s. I had kitbashed the >130P?? >tender for my K4s from the "long distance" tender (210F??) that they >offer with >the I1. The new tender is not only correct for a K4, its a much >better >casting! The rivets are no longer 1950 technology. The irony is >that the new >tender I saw came with an L1 !! The old tender was the right one for >L1s. > >regards >Andy Miller > >- ----------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF >database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >- ----------------------------------------------------------------- >For >assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > > >Regards, > >Andy Miller >asmiller@mitre.org > > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:15:50 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] new Bowser PRR tender From: padraice@juno.com (Patrick M Egan) Content-Length: 2889 Actually, if you want to be really correct about it, the old tender appears to be decended from a casting produced by a company whose name I forgot about thirty years ago. It seems the Pennsy H9 2-8-0 castings date back to just after (maybe before) WWII to a company before Penn Line. The old K4/L1 tender was the H9 tender with a tender collar (coal boards) added. It wasn't correct for either the K4 or the L1. It sort of resembled the L1 tender, especially at a distance if you are nearsighted and forgot your glasses. Now, is somebody going to offer deals on the new tenders like Liberty did a few months ago on T1 boilers and tenders? Pat Egan On Mon, 10 Aug 98 08:39:47 -0400 asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) writes: > >Bowser's website has a picture of a new tender, advertised as a PRR >13,000 >gallon car. Has anyone actually seen this? Is it any better than >Bowser's >previous tenders? > >Elliot Fishbein >========= > >It indeed is a 130P?? - THE CORRECT TENDER FOR A K4! For years Bowser >(and >PennLine) had put an L1 tender behind their K4s. I had kitbashed the >130P?? >tender for my K4s from the "long distance" tender (210F??) that they >offer with >the I1. The new tender is not only correct for a K4, its a much >better >casting! The rivets are no longer 1950 technology. The irony is >that the new >tender I saw came with an L1 !! The old tender was the right one for >L1s. > >regards >Andy Miller > >- ----------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF >database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >- ----------------------------------------------------------------- >For >assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > > >Regards, > >Andy Miller >asmiller@mitre.org > > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:25:35 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Emporium Content-Length: 1932 Greetings! I have wanted to put my two cents in but have just now found the time. At Emporium the Erie maim line diverged from the Buffalo Division main. It was called, in 1946, the Renovo Division. There were several passenger trains to and from Erie through Emporium. All this is from memory as I don't have time to get out my research so forgive any mistakes. An early am departure from Erie with an all stops local usually with a K4 as power. This train returned in the evening to Erie. it connected at Renovo with the Buffalo Day Express. The Northern and Southern Expresses were the named trains over the Erie main. Usually powered by an M1 it had Pullman service from Erie to New York, Washington and Philadelphia and an Oil City-New York Pullman via a connection at Corry with #970/971(?) known locally as "The Jerk". Freight service was by trains W5 and W2, I think. These were Renovo to Erie trains. General merchandise including reefers from the Purple Emperor. Among the locals was EK, the Erie-Kane turn. An interdivisional train, BEC, Ran Buffalo to Corry and then on the Renovo division to Erie. Then down the E & A to New Castle and Crestline. Much mineral traffic also ran out of Erie to central Pa from the ore docks here. If there is interest and if I can find the time I will put together a more accurate description of the Renovo-Erie traffic circa 1946. I model this line in 1946 and run as much of the actual trains that ran then with accurate power, ect. Don Murphy Recreating operations on the Renovo Division in 1946. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:25:50 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Commuters to Harrisburg in 1954 Content-Length: 1400 In a message dated 98-08-10 14:36:40 EDT, you write: << >And, check with Chuck B. for the 9 / 1954 Consist Book copy...it will show >cars / set-outs / pick-ups, as in: > >Train #11, lists full consist in make-up order, days operated for EACH >CAR......and destination of EACH CAR. Except for head-end cars, this I already have, from the Form 4. This book that you speak of, who published it, how big is it, and how do I go about getting a copy? > >> ***The Consist Books were published by the P R R on a regular basis...at one time, with every ETT date / change. About the size of an ETT, list EVERYTHING about psgr train make-up, every single head end car as per my example with train # 11. Chuck Blardone sells copies of many of these books, spanning 1925 to the < sob > end of the P R R. His address is in the fine KEYSTONE Magazine, of which he is the Editor....and a fine one, at that..!!!! ...I say that honestly, and not just because he publishes my P R R Crossword Puzzles..!!!!......Bill*** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] new Bowser PRR tender Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:10:14 -0500 Content-Length: 2832 More tenders--Although I have not seen one in person yet, the full size picture of Bowser's new 130P?? on their website looks really good. Comparing it to the info presented in The Keystone, Vol. 21, No. 1, Spring 1988, Bowser has done us SPF's a real service. In the 50's the vast majority were used with K4's, but some found their way to M1's (the last of the class to pull passengers), I1's (particularly on the Elmira Branch), and a small number to L1's. Other than with the K4's, a doghouse would have been commonly added. This tender was a good choice because it has wide application. Thanks Bowser. Now if some one will do a 110P??...Liberty, how about it? Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL -----Original Message----- From: Andrew S. Miller To: Elliot Fishbein and/or Eileen Kolbasuk ; prr-talk@dsop.com Date: Monday, August 10, 1998 8:19 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] new Bowser PRR tender > >Bowser's website has a picture of a new tender, advertised as a PRR 13,000 >gallon car. Has anyone actually seen this? Is it any better than Bowser's >previous tenders? > >Elliot Fishbein >========= > >It indeed is a 130P?? - THE CORRECT TENDER FOR A K4! For years Bowser (and >PennLine) had put an L1 tender behind their K4s. I had kitbashed the 130P?? >tender for my K4s from the "long distance" tender (210F??) that they offer with >the I1. The new tender is not only correct for a K4, its a much better >casting! The rivets are no longer 1950 technology. The irony is that the new >tender I saw came with an L1 !! The old tender was the right one for L1s. > >regards >Andy Miller > >- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF >database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >- ----------------------------------------------------------------- For >assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > >Regards, > >Andy Miller >asmiller@mitre.org > > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 00:12:30 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR X31F Content-Length: 985 In a message dated 98-08-10 23:14:07 EDT, SSgt York writes: << Bout to order my X31F, but have a question. Are the 2D F12 trucks that Sunshine sells in white metal the same as the Bowser coil and leaf spring trucks in their X31 kits? >> Unless there is some rivet I failed to count, they are. Although I like the weight of the metal Stewart trucks under an open car like their FM flat kit, the Bowser's are among the freeest rolling mass-produced trucks I have encountered. I put Intermountain metal wheel sets in mine, as I do most of my trucks, but they run just fine with the plastic wheels. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 00:42:03 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] R-50b Content-Length: 818 This is for the guy who was asking about kits for the R-50b. I have a older Walthers catalog so i'm not sure if Walthers still has it or carries it,but They did list a kit made by Wabash Valley for the R-50b. Walthers listed it as... Express,Pennsylvania 772-4385 $15.00 This might be the same as the Red Ball cars. Til Later Hank Mummert ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 08:38:41 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Is it real, or . . . Content-Length: 1340 In a message dated 98-08-11 01:18:31 EDT, Bruce Smith writes: << The old Mantua/Tyco caboose - mid to late 70's - could be kit-bashed into a nice/close N8. The article was in RMC, sorry mine are all packed away. The only major job was to cut the cupola out and turn it around. >> Did that to two of them, but as I recall (mine are in mover's boxes, I',m using a brass version bought at a swap meet for $65 a few years ago) end platforms and ladders are reversed, as (I believe) was done on the Model Power N6b. These reversals of items like this rank up there with the infamous reversed underbody rigging of many early commercial freight car models (apparently there was confusion reading RR blueprints as to whether they were top down or bottom up drawings). They are still around I am working from memory this morning and will check my facts on this, but someone else may have more readily available drawings and models of these cabin cars. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 08:48:16 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b Content-Length: 1352 In a message dated 98-08-11 04:40:10 EDT, Hank Mummert writes: << This is for the guy who was asking about kits for the R-50b. I have a older Walthers catalog so i'm not sure if Walthers still has it or carries it,but They did list a kit made by Wabash Valley for the R-50b. Walthers listed it as... Express,Pennsylvania 772-4385 $15.00 This might be the same as the Red Ball cars. >> I picked up one of these kits on Walther's return shelves many years ago. Red Ball became Wabash Valley later became Cannonball for sides only. Sides and ends were pretty fair resin castings but roof was some sort of thin stamped out plastic material which was terrible--would have been better to replace with a wood piece. No real underframe, but that may have been missing from the kit which was why Walthers put it on the Sale shelf. To call this a craftsman kit is an understatement. Gave up building it and bought a brass one at a swap meet. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 09:06:20 -0400 From: "Robert W. Johnston" Subject: [PRR] ERS27a (SD9) For Trade. Any takers? Content-Length: 646 I have a Proto 2000 ERS27a (EMD SD9) # 7607 mint in box I would like to get rid of. I'm trying to keep my layout Summer of 1956, and theERS27a was brought on-line by the PRR during '57. Ideally I would like to trade this for a SD7 or some other early road switcher. TIA rwj ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 08:42:42 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b Content-Length: 2277 Hank, > This is for the guy who was asking about kits for the R-50b. > I have a older Walthers catalog so i'm not sure if Walthers still > has it or carries it,but They did list a kit made by Wabash Valley > for the R-50b. Walthers listed it as... > > Express,Pennsylvania 772-4385 $15.00 Walthers got out of the "craftsman" kit business about 10 years ago. Walthers passenger car and MU (North Shore, South Shore and MP 54 kits) are no longer available except occaisionally ast swap meets etc. I am curious to know what they did with the masters/patterns etc, as there are a great many parts that are not available from any other source. Mind you, many of these kits would need a great deal of updating to be considered reasonable contemporary models. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary works in Braille. ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 09:27:57 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] new Bowser PRR tender Content-Length: 3449 >Comparing it to the info presented in The Keystone, Vol. 21, No. 1, Spring >1988, Bowser has done us SPF's a real service. In the 50's the vast >majority were used with K4's, but some found their way to M1's (the last of >the class to pull passengers), I1's (particularly on the Elmira Branch), and >a small number to L1's. Hi all, I hate to do this... I REALLY hate to do this... I REALLY REALLY REALLY hate to do this...buuuuuuuuut... A careful examination of the Keystone, vol 21, No1, "13,000 gallon Tenders" by Roger L. Keyser and "The Kiesel Tenders" also by Roger Keyser gives us the following results: Count the vertical rivet lines on the Bowser tender...there are 9 This rules out the 130F82 as built (100 tenders) and the 130P70 as built (2 tenders built for the K5, and having special heavier trucks), effectively ruling out the use of this tender on any layout dated prior to 1936. PRR tender classes 130P75 (types 1-3), the 1936-49 rebuild of all 100 130F82 and the two 130P70 tenders have 9 vertical rivet lines with larger coal bunkers. The coal boards on these classes extended to the fourth rivet line from the rear of the tender. The Bowser tender has the coal boards extending to the FIFTH rivet line from the rear, representing either a smaller bunker...or incorrectly spaced rivet lines...or both. Finally, four 130P75 tenders were converted back to 130F82 tenders in 1953 with a change of deck heights, but all outward spotting characteristics remain the same. Also apparently missing from this tender model is the short line of double rivets at the top of the side of the cistern at the rear centered over the rear axle. So, the inevitable conclusion is that, even with all of the resources available, Mr. English has produced a model without a prototype! Either that, or this photo does not really portray the model (I can hope...) So close, and yet...so BOWSER! Happy Rivet Counting Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary works in Braille. ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] TerraServer links now on web page Date: Tue, 11 Aug 98 10:30:50 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1100 Last week I posted a bunch of TerraServer (satellite photo) links to the list. Some folks have had trouble using them because their e-mail client placed "hard returns" into the middle of the URL's. I have added the links to my Links page http://kc.pennsyrr.com/links.html with descriptions to make it easier. I have also added links for ZOO Interlocking as well as Sunnyside Yards. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Tricks Date: Tue, 11 Aug 98 10:43:32 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1069 I've seen the term "trick" used as a synononym for "shift", as in, "work the second trick". I'm developing a 24-hour chronology of movements around Harrisburg's passenger station in September 1954. This'll be a long document, so I thought splitting it up by "trick" might be an ideal way to divide it. Anyone know what the typical "tricks" were then? ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 10:20:12 -0500 From: "Laird, Bill (GWise)" Subject: [PRR] Is it real, or . . . -Reply Content-Length: 884 Date: 08/11/1998 04:17 pm (Tuesday) From: Bill Laird To: INET.MAIL("PRR-Talk@dsop.com") Subject: [PRR] Is it real, or . . . -Reply >>> Edward F. Turner at PRR-Talk@dsop.com 08/07/98 08:54pm wrote, in part >>> >>> I know Bowser makes some nice N5 series Cabin Cars. I plan on picking some up, I am just wondering if I should banish the Athearn for the sake of realism. <<< Ed, Also check Gloor Craft (see Walthers catalog). They make some of the older PRR cabins. Bill Laird Houston, Texas ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] new Bowser PRR tender Date: Tue, 11 Aug 98 12:45:45 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1389 On 8/11/98 10:27 AM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: >Count the vertical rivet lines on the Bowser tender.. HARRISBURG, PA -- While riding a railfan excursion train powered by the only remaining T-1 locomotive, Bruce F. Smith, of Auburn, apparently fell into the auger feeding coal from the tender into the firebox. Though no remains have been found, to speak of, authorities are ruling the accident "suspicious". Well, at least it's an improvement. I've got one on order through Liberty. Should the "real McCoy" ever appear, this one will just become another "ass sticking out of the roundhouse" to make it appear full! ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 98 11:45:36 CST Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b Content-Length: 1386 Hi, gang, > I have a older Walthers catalog so i'm not sure if Walthers still > has it or carries it,but They did list a kit made by Wabash Valley > for the R-50b. Walthers listed it as... > > Express,Pennsylvania 772-4385 $15.00 > > This might be the same as the Red Ball cars. To my knowledge, this kit has not been available for some years. I picked up a couple off a local hobby shop shelf. The side and end castings are thick and not up to contemporary standards, but once painted and weathered, they should be ok. The roofs are a problem - the kits I have give you a thin plastic moulding with not rivet detail and not very well matched to the assembled carbody. I plan to make my own roofs out of thin styrene or brass. Check around the local hobby shops or modelers flea markets - you might find one. Yes, they are basically the old Red Ball kits. PRR forever! Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 13:50:46 EDT Subject: [PRR] Baldwin Pass. shark Content-Length: 687 Jerry , You might want to take a look at http://mc.cyklone.com/default.htm They are advertising a BP-20 kit in resin with a sample picture. Never heard of the company but they are in Canada maybe Nova-Tech with a different name ????? Ken McCorry ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:43:09 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Tricks Content-Length: 848 The " Standard " Tower tricks up our way < NY Div > were: 7 AM - 3 PM- 11 PM. Hours varied at two-trick only locations, and of course at Agent / Operator situations. Levermen in certain locations < A, Dock, Hunter, Union, Fair, etc. > sometimes had hours that diverged slightly, and could have longer shifts per ICC / FRA Laws. Train Dispatchers similar, sometimes minor shifts to 8 AM - 4 PM - Mid. Ken might have some prior exact knowledge on your end = Hbg........Bill**** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:46:12 EDT Subject: [PRR] CR Operation Lifesaver Train.... Content-Length: 557 ***I just received word that the CR Op Lifesaver train was due in Columbus OH area today......and a ferry move, and then Hbg - Allentown round trips on Aug. 13.....for those younger fans.....Bill*** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 15:23:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: [PRR] Forwarded: [BALDWIN 6-axle SHARK in HO now available!] Content-Length: 996 Just saw this on rec.models.railroad. I figure I'll get one and check it out; I'll be happy to report my findings. -D --- Begin Forwarded Message --- From: miracle-castings@on.aibn.com (Miracle Castings Inc.) Newsgroups: rec.models.railroad Subject: BALDWIN 6-axle SHARK in HO now available! Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 16:20:13 GMT Miracle Castings Inc. is proud to announce the release of their first product, a Baldwin 6-axle Shark, in HO scale! For more info, see our web site at http://mc.cyklone.com/default.htm or e-mail us at miracle-castings@on.aibn.com --- End Forwarded Message --- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] bowser t-1 kit Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 15:44:50 -0400 Content-Length: 672 I just purchased a bowser T-1 kit and I would like to know what the smoke stacks should look like, the picture with the instructions shows 2 distinct holes, but the casting is 1 large oval hole? Which one is correct and where can I find some good photo's to do the detailing? Thanks in advance. Sam Vastano ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 16:47:42 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b Content-Length: 975 Original Red Ball kits had a single piece of "round roof" wood to be shaped by the modeler - as John Keel indicated sides were cast pot metal - softer than Penn Line Ulrich or Bowser Zamac - but not as likely to turn to dust Their REA Express reefers used a 3 part wood roof - wood sides - same instruction sheet = "ask the man who owns them" - The R50b was my first HO car - now over 40 years old ! It also was the project that initiated my interest in PRR research - as I learned (to my chagrin) that my beautiful black tar paper roof was WRONG WRONG WRONG for the R50b Dick Ross Cleveland, Ohio ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 17:08:13 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR X31F Content-Length: 487 The 2DF12 from Sunshine and the Bowser truck are not the same. The Bowser is a 2DF16 if memory serves me correctly. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 18:07:11 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] new Bowser PRR tender Content-Length: 843 In a message dated 98-08-11 11:24:48 EDT, Bruce Smith writer: << So, the inevitable conclusion is that, even with all of the resources available, Mr. English has produced a model without a prototype! Either that, or this photo does not really portray the model (I can hope...) So close, and yet...so BOWSER! Happy Rivet Counting Bruce >> You seem to be the guy to ask how far off one would be using the Spectrum K4 tender behind my Bowser K4 loco. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: David Carey Subject: [PRR] HO models of cabin cars Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 16:16:33 -0600 Content-Length: 591 In addition to the other models previously mentioned, I believe that Model Power still produces a plastic caboose that bears a strong resemblance to an N6b cabin car. The ones I've seen have been lettered for the Santa Fe. GDC ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 22:08:06 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Tricks Content-Length: 1041 In a message dated 98-08-11 14:00:44 EDT, jerry@dsop.com writes: << Anyone know what the typical "tricks" were then? >> As a general rule of thumb, 1st trick (AKA "Daylight") is 7AM-3PM or 8AM-4PM, 2nd trick("MIddle") is 3-11PM or 4PM-12AM, and 3rd trick("Last") is 11PM-7AM or 12-8AM. Various minor alterations existed, particularly with respect to contracts which specified a non-paid lunch period part way through the shift, and thus had equivalent amounts of time overlapping with the following shift. If you really want to be Harrisburg-specific, they called the shifts "A", "B", and "C". I don't know of any other place on the RR that did that. Rich Copeland ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 23:16:56 -0400 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Renovo and the P&E Content-Length: 1099 Greg Stone wrote: > > Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the The Philadelphia and Erie > Railroad by Rosenberg (sp?) I tried Amazon but they can not get it? > Thanks, > Greg > The Erie County (PA) Public Library has a copy - (814)451-6900, http://www.ecls.lib.pa.us/ At one time I found a web site on which you could search all PA libraries, but I don't seem to have bookmarked it. I remember that several had this book. I almost checked it out last Sat., but looking through it I noticed that it only covers up to the time the Pennsy took it over (1907, I think). I'm modeling the late '40s, so I passed & got "No Way To Run A Railroad" instead. -- Jerry Shickler e-mail: geshick@velocity.net ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 22:30:40 -0500 Content-Length: 2454 Since there might be someone who wants one of these: For sale: Built up, painted and decaled PRR 2724, Red Ball R50b. Has original wood roof and floor, cast metal sides and ends. KD couplers and MDC 4 wheel passenger trucks with KD wheels. (That was as close to PRR passenger trucks as we could get not that many years ago.) A real heavy weight, it is justification to doublehead K4's. Since $15 has been mentioned, that's the price including shipping. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL -----Original Message----- From: George Pierson To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Tuesday, August 11, 1998 4:11 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b >Hi, gang, > >> I have a older Walthers catalog so i'm not sure if Walthers still >> has it or carries it,but They did list a kit made by Wabash Valley >> for the R-50b. Walthers listed it as... >> >> Express,Pennsylvania 772-4385 $15.00 >> >> This might be the same as the Red Ball cars. > >To my knowledge, this kit has not been available for some years. I picked >up a couple off a local hobby shop shelf. The side and end castings are >thick and not up to contemporary standards, but once painted and weathered, >they should be ok. The roofs are a problem - the kits I have give you a >thin plastic moulding with not rivet detail and not very well matched to >the assembled carbody. I plan to make my own roofs out of thin styrene or >brass. Check around the local hobby shops or modelers flea markets - you >might find one. > >Yes, they are basically the old Red Ball kits. > >PRR forever! > >Sincerely, > >George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu >Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] new Bowser PRR tender Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 22:44:55 -0500 Content-Length: 4371 Bruce--Thanks for pointing out the inaccuracies in Bowser's new tender. When there is so much info available, why did they have to freelance? But we are still better off than we were without it; I guess they were counting on that. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL -----Original Message----- From: Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Tuesday, August 11, 1998 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] new Bowser PRR tender >>Comparing it to the info presented in The Keystone, Vol. 21, No. 1, Spring >>1988, Bowser has done us SPF's a real service. In the 50's the vast >>majority were used with K4's, but some found their way to M1's (the last of >>the class to pull passengers), I1's (particularly on the Elmira Branch), and >>a small number to L1's. > >Hi all, > >I hate to do this... >I REALLY hate to do this... >I REALLY REALLY REALLY hate to do this...buuuuuuuuut... > >A careful examination of the Keystone, vol 21, No1, "13,000 gallon Tenders" >by Roger L. Keyser and "The Kiesel Tenders" also by Roger Keyser gives us >the following results: > >Count the vertical rivet lines on the Bowser tender...there are 9 >This rules out the 130F82 as built (100 tenders) and the 130P70 as built (2 >tenders built for the K5, and having special heavier trucks), effectively >ruling out the use of this tender on any layout dated prior to 1936. > >PRR tender classes 130P75 (types 1-3), the 1936-49 rebuild of all 100 >130F82 and the two 130P70 tenders have 9 vertical rivet lines with larger >coal bunkers. The coal boards on these classes extended to the fourth >rivet line from the rear of the tender. The Bowser tender has the coal >boards extending to the FIFTH rivet line from the rear, representing either >a smaller bunker...or incorrectly spaced rivet lines...or both. > >Finally, four 130P75 tenders were converted back to 130F82 tenders in 1953 >with a change of deck heights, but all outward spotting characteristics >remain the same. > >Also apparently missing from this tender model is the short line of double >rivets at the top of the side of the cistern at the rear centered over the >rear axle. > >So, the inevitable conclusion is that, even with all of the resources >available, Mr. English has produced a model without a prototype! Either >that, or this photo does not really portray the model (I can hope...) > >So close, and yet...so BOWSER! > >Happy Rivet Counting >Bruce > >Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. >Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and >Director, Nucleic Acid Services >Scott-Ritchey Research Center >334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) >http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ >*************************************************************************** ***** >If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup >trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number >of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great >literary works in Braille. >*************************************************************************** ***** >Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com > _ _ > / \ / \ > ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ > |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Richard F. Makse" Subject: Re: [PRR] Tricks Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 00:36:32 -0400 Content-Length: 1467 Bill wrote: >The " Standard " Tower tricks up our way < NY Div > were: 7 AM - 3 PM- >11 PM. Hours varied at two-trick only locations, and of course at Agent / >Operator situations. Levermen in certain locations < A, Dock, Hunter, Union, >Fair, etc. > sometimes had hours that diverged slightly, and could have longer >shifts per ICC / FRA Laws. > >Train Dispatchers similar, sometimes minor shifts to 8 AM - 4 PM - Mid. Pretty much sums things up. I would go so far as to say that this was "Lines East" practice. The dispatchers were always staggered off the times of the operators since the dispatcher's critical "transfer" of orders and messages across tricks insured that the operators in the field were already up to speed when the "good night" or "good morning" came across the line. And lest anybody think that every operator changed at 7 AM, there was always unwritten wiggle room built into the change of tricks. So a 7 AM might become 6:50 to adjust for inbound and outbound train service and, as Bill said, more variations would be introduced by levermen. Dick Makse ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 01:18:49 EDT Subject: [PRR] for the SERIOUS collector..B. loco cab Content-Length: 437 ***LAST CHANCE FOR A baldwin switcher cab, on ebay #24473196..sb ???....bill*** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 01:36:21 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] bowser tenders Content-Length: 747 Hi All... Hmmmmm look at the Bowser tender and then the 130 P 75 behind the K-5 in the winter 1995 issue of the Keystone on page 29. Looks the same to me. Til Later Hank Mummert P.S. How do we know that the Bowser tender shown was'nt a pre- production sample? ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 08:19:59 -0400 From: mxb13@psu.edu (Michael Bezilla) Subject: Re: [PRR] Tricks Content-Length: 767 ><< Anyone know what the typical "tricks" were then? >> >As a general rule of thumb, 1st trick (AKA "Daylight") is 7AM-3PM >or 8AM-4PM, 2nd trick("MIddle") is 3-11PM or 4PM-12AM, and >3rd trick("Last") is 11PM-7AM or 12-8AM. I think PRR tower and block operators worked 6 am - 2 pm, 2 pm - 10 pm, 10 pm - 6 am, don't know if dispatchers did the same. This routine was common with PC & CR also. -m ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] New Baldwin Passenger Sharks Date: Wed, 12 Aug 98 08:51:12 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1338 In response to the recent news that "Miracle Castings" is producing "Passenger Shark" bodies, I have requested review samples which would, if provided, alleviate any fears that this is another "Nova Tech" operation. The "A" shells are supposedly out, with "B" shells coming in September. The company designed their shell and chassis for use with an Athearn PA for power. To the rivet counters: Is the Athearn PA suitable in terms of "closeness" of the truck...considering the alternatives? Looks like Joe (Liberty) can breath a sigh of relief and concentrate on the K5 and streamlined K4! Centipede's anyone? ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 09:08:49 EDT Subject: [PRR] Miracle Castings Baldwin BP-20A Content-Length: 1243 I eagerly await the first review of this shell by the rivet counters! Everyone whould have to judge for themselves whether an accurate "kit" for a dummy A shell and frame for a limited market is worth $99.95, but my first questions would be as to the accuracy of the shell and the stability of a cast resin frame. It is on my most wanted list and I have the PA mechanisms (and probably a can motor to convert) in my spare parts storage, so my incremental cost above the $99.95 would only consist of a decoder. I try to remain positive, avoid the "Henny Penny" syndrome, and encourage anyone who is willing to invest in a limited market shell if it is accurate. After all, maybe financial success of these people or a Joe Zappa effort would result eventually in the production of a 90F82 tender with doghouse for the I1 which is at the top of my wish list! Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 09:26:31 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Tricks Content-Length: 1127 My father worked second trick around the Harrisburg area for many years--PRR to PC to Conrail. I don't have any knowledge of 1954 (before I was born), but I do know that my earliest memories (probably early 60's) are him working 3 pm to 11 pm. At some point later, the hours switched to 4 pm to 12 midnight. John Keel In a message dated 98-08-11 14:00:44 EDT, jerry@dsop.com writes: << I've seen the term "trick" used as a synononym for "shift", as in, "work the second trick". I'm developing a 24-hour chronology of movements around Harrisburg's passenger station in September 1954. This'll be a long document, so I thought splitting it up by "trick" might be an ideal way to divide it. Anyone know what the typical "tricks" were then? >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 09:49:49 -0400 From: mxb13@psu.edu (Michael Bezilla) Subject: [PRR] crestline roundhouse Content-Length: 562 Does anyone know the status of the PRR roundhouse at Crestline, Ohio? It is still standing, I understand, but is crumbling fast & the turntable pit is filled with water. When did it last see service? ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ken Reinert Subject: Re: [PRR] Tricks Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:12:28 -0400 (EDT) Content-Length: 1196 PRRSignals@aol.com wrote: > Ken might have some prior exact knowledge on your end = Hbg........Bill**** In the Amtrak era, the Train Director's jobs at State and Harris were called for 6:30am/2:30pm/10:30pm -- I don't know for certain if they were the same earlier on, but my suspicions are that they were. Most likely, the other jobs in both towers (Assistant Train Director or Assistant to the Train Director [goat] -- two distinctly different jobs, particularly in the pay rate -- and levermen) probably had slightly different starting times. Similar situation at Zoo (goat was 6a/2p, no last trick; assistant was 6:30a/2:30p, no last trick, leverman and TD were 7a/3p/11p, no leverman on third trick) and Penn (goat was 6:30a/2:30p, no last trick; leverman and TD were 7a/3p/11p, no leverman on third trick). Ken ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:27:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] New Baldwin Passenger Sharks Content-Length: 456 On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Jerry wrote: > Centipede's anyone? What do you use as a drive? -D ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:00:42 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] bowser tenders Content-Length: 3126 Hank Wrote: > > Hmmmmm look at the Bowser tender and then the 130 P 75 behind the K-5 > in the winter 1995 issue of the Keystone on page 29. Looks the same to me. I don't have that issue, so I'm out of luck, but IF the rivet lines are arranged as on the Bowser model and the back of coal boards line up with the fifth rivet line from the back, then Bowser has modeled one of two tenders which were specifically built for the K5, originally as 130P70 and then modified to 130P75. These tenders can be identified by the "oddball" tender trucks (one of kind...well four of a kind, 2 per tender). These trucks were used until late in the service life of the tender, and are not depicted in the Bowser photograph, further limiting this tender to use behind K5 locomotives in the late(?) 1950's! If you wouldn't mind, could someone check the photograph mentioned and let us know when the photo was taken and if the tender in question has standard Kiesel trucks, or trucks with a large, heavy looking, almost straight tops. > P.S. How do we know that the Bowser tender shown was'nt a pre- > production sample? Past experience?!!!! Actually, I will try to call and find out, but my experience with Bowser has often yielded a 1950s-60s mentality that does not jibe well with current modeling practices...for example, try gettin them to consider not molding on the grab irons, or switching to insulated motors to allow easy DCC instalation! My guess is that they would not change the production even if informed of errors, as it is "good enough" and there isn't currently any competition. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary works in Braille. ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:47:20 -0400 From: Charles Ring Subject: Re: [PRR] Tricks Content-Length: 1347 Da72jmk@aol.com wrote: > > My father worked second trick around the Harrisburg area for many years--PRR > to PC to Conrail. I don't have any knowledge of 1954 (before I was born), but > I do know that my earliest memories (probably early 60's) are him working 3 pm > to 11 pm. At some point later, the hours switched to 4 pm to 12 midnight. > John Keel > > In a message dated 98-08-11 14:00:44 EDT, jerry@dsop.com writes: > > << I've seen the term "trick" used as a synononym for "shift", as in, "work > the second trick". > > I'm developing a 24-hour chronology of movements around Harrisburg's > passenger station in September 1954. This'll be a long document, so I > thought splitting it up by "trick" might be an ideal way to divide it. > > Anyone know what the typical "tricks" were then? >> The tricks throughout my father's PRR/PC/CR career (1942-1980), as far as I know, were 7A-3P, 3P-11P, and 11P-7A. He was a Yardmaster in the Youngstown area. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:56:02 -0400 From: Charles Ring Subject: Re: [PRR] Tricks Content-Length: 1602 Charles Ring wrote: > > Da72jmk@aol.com wrote: > > > > My father worked second trick around the Harrisburg area for many years--PRR > > to PC to Conrail. I don't have any knowledge of 1954 (before I was born), but > > I do know that my earliest memories (probably early 60's) are him working 3 pm > > to 11 pm. At some point later, the hours switched to 4 pm to 12 midnight. > > John Keel > > > > In a message dated 98-08-11 14:00:44 EDT, jerry@dsop.com writes: > > > > << I've seen the term "trick" used as a synononym for "shift", as in, "work > > the second trick". > > > > I'm developing a 24-hour chronology of movements around Harrisburg's > > passenger station in September 1954. This'll be a long document, so I > > thought splitting it up by "trick" might be an ideal way to divide it. > > > > Anyone know what the typical "tricks" were then? >> > > The tricks throughout my father's PRR/PC/CR career (1942-1980), as far > as I know, were 7A-3P, 3P-11P, and 11P-7A. He was a Yardmaster in the > Youngstown area. I should also mention that it was customary for employees to show up maybe a half hour before the actual beginning of their trick, and get that half hour back at the end of their trick. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:20:35 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Tricks Content-Length: 687 In a message dated 8/11/98 10:48:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time, PRRMAN@aol.com writes: << llowing shift. If you really want to be Harrisburg-specific, they called the shifts "A", "B", and "C". I don't know of any other place on the RR that did that. Rich Copeland >> ****NY Div PRR also....PT..?...Ken...??....bill** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:37:24 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Tricks Content-Length: 1130 In a message dated 8/12/98 4:22:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time, maxrail@worldnet.att.net writes: << Pretty much sums things up. I would go so far as to say that this was "Lines East" practice. The dispatchers were always staggered off the times of the operators since the dispatcher's critical "transfer" of orders and messages across tricks insured that the operators in the field were already up to speed when the "good night" or "good morning" came across the line >> ***Thanks, Rich, for a reminder. This good, safe PRR < and others > practice was abridged later by sucessor RR operating agencies, with disastrous results.....no back-up for the shift change !!..Both old workers leave, and both new guys are ' in the dark '...Progress..??!!...bill** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:47:40 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Tricks Content-Length: 908 In a message dated 8/12/98 5:23:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, mxb13@psu.edu writes: << I think PRR tower and block operators worked 6 am - 2 pm, 2 pm - 10 pm, 10 pm - 6 am, don't know if dispatchers did the same. This routine was common with PC & CR also. -m >> ***Hi, Mike...where did you see 6-2-10 tricks on the P R R .. just curious, as so far we have NY Div , Hbg and others reporting 7-3-11.... as I noted earlier, latter ' owners ' of P R R properties did alter the schedules. Was it different up the P&E..??...Bill** , ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Liberty" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Baldwin Passenger Sharks Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 14:31:13 -0400 Content-Length: 2865 Hello All ! Yes, very interesting news, as I sit here with a semi-completed Shark set in front of me ! We are still working on production runs of others, but make steady progress on all fields Pennsy ! We are indeed forging ahead with the K5 project, some Pennsy Truc-Train Trailers, the N8 and yes the K4. We will likely take the 'wait and see' attitude with these new 'Sharks' from Miracle castings. Let's see how nice they really are !! **** In addition, I will gladly order in the new Bowser tender kits, and sell them to you at $ 19.95 + $ 4.00 S/H *********( if the new price is indeed $ 24.95) (PA residents must add 6% sales tax !) All orders must include payment, and be here by Aug. 21 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will then order in the correct amount ! (Jerry, yours has been ordered already ! ) Thanks for your continued support, and patience ! J. Zappa, Liberty Model Productions ---------- > From: Jerry > To: PRR-Talk > Subject: [PRR] New Baldwin Passenger Sharks > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 8:51 AM > > In response to the recent news that "Miracle Castings" is producing > "Passenger Shark" bodies, I have requested review samples which would, if > provided, alleviate any fears that this is another "Nova Tech" operation. > > The "A" shells are supposedly out, with "B" shells coming in September. > > The company designed their shell and chassis for use with an Athearn PA > for power. To the rivet counters: Is the Athearn PA suitable in terms of > "closeness" of the truck...considering the alternatives? > > Looks like Joe (Liberty) can breath a sigh of relief and concentrate on > the K5 and streamlined K4! > > Centipede's anyone? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com > Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. > Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com > The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Liberty" Subject: [PRR] regarding Bowser Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 14:44:06 -0400 Content-Length: 3247 Hi gang, While I can certainly appreciate the element of accuracy, and the desire for the same, I think we should allow a certain amount of 'slack' to a company like Bowser,(or any for that matter) and say a little 'Thank You' from time to time. Ok, so not every rivet is exactly where it should be, but stop for a moment and imagine what your collection or layout would be like if Bowser never came along !! How many of you would have T-1's at over a grand @ in brass ! I now have two of them, for less than half of that ! The same goes for the new tender kit at a retail of $ 24.95 ! I challenge you to find something better at this price ! It is my feeling, that for the money, they satisfy a great many modelers ! I would rather buy a couple, maybe modify one to satisfy my lust for accuracy, and send in a nicely written letter, thanking them for a great new kit, but urge them for some more new kits aimed at the SPF !! It certainly works better than slamming them, not buying one, and complaining. They can justify new tooling only if they are making money ! Well, enough of the soap box, and don't take this as some sort of excuse for not getting things just right (for Bowser) and do remember this is a hobby for FUN ! Joe Zappa, Liberty Model Productions ---------- > From: Jerry > To: PRR-Talk > Subject: [PRR] New Baldwin Passenger Sharks > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 8:51 AM > > In response to the recent news that "Miracle Castings" is producing > "Passenger Shark" bodies, I have requested review samples which would, if > provided, alleviate any fears that this is another "Nova Tech" operation. > > The "A" shells are supposedly out, with "B" shells coming in September. > > The company designed their shell and chassis for use with an Athearn PA > for power. To the rivet counters: Is the Athearn PA suitable in terms of > "closeness" of the truck...considering the alternatives? > > Looks like Joe (Liberty) can breath a sigh of relief and concentrate on > the K5 and streamlined K4! > > Centipede's anyone? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com > Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. > Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com > The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bud Kaiser Subject: RE: [PRR] new Bowser PRR tender Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:32:05 -0400 Content-Length: 1370 The original H9 boiler casting was made by John English post WWII and cost $9. Memory has fogged on whether the frame and cylinders were included in that price. He didn't make a tender so I had a Mantua tender behind mine until Penn Line issued their complete kit and made the tender available separately. John English is/was not related to Lee English of Bowser so Lee says. I believe that the English casting formed the beginnings of the whole Penn Line series. Bud Actually, if you want to be really correct about it, the old tender appears to be decended from a casting produced by a company whose name I forgot about thirty years ago. It seems the Pennsy H9 2-8-0 castings date back to just after (maybe before) WWII to a company before Penn Line. The old K4/L1 tender was the H9 tender with a tender collar (coal boards) added. It wasn't correct for either the K4 or the L1. It sort of resembled the L1 tender, especially at a distance if you are nearsighted and forgot your glasses. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 18:21:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] crestline roundhouse Content-Length: 741 On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Michael Bezilla wrote: > > Does anyone know the status of the PRR roundhouse at Crestline, Ohio? It is > still standing, I understand, but is crumbling fast & the turntable pit is > filled with water. When did it last see service? Status as you said. Roundhouse apparantly owned by some local guy/group. Don't know when it saw service. -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 18:30:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Tricks Content-Length: 1649 On Wed, 12 Aug 1998 Da72jmk@aol.com wrote: > My father worked second trick around the Harrisburg area for many years--PRR > to PC to Conrail. I don't have any knowledge of 1954 (before I was born), but > I do know that my earliest memories (probably early 60's) are him working 3 pm > to 11 pm. At some point later, the hours switched to 4 pm to 12 midnight. > John Keel My association was mainly with tower operators. Nearly all the tower operators I met worked 0630-1430, 1430-2230, 2230-0630. It was explained to me that the "tricks" (and I would _love_ to know the etymology of that word) were, in actuality, 7-3, 3-11, and 11-7, but that one showed up half an hour early as a "courtesy" to one's coming-off-shift counterpart. As an aside, how this was a "courtesy" was always beyond me, since that simply meant that, as you work ended half an hour early (the courtesy), so you work _started_ half an hour early (the payback). In practice, the operator going off shift did not simply leave at the appointed time, but rather, anywhere between 5 and 30 minutes were spent getting the new guy up to speed with what was happening out "on the road", in addition to speech prohibited by the rules, such as catching up on the latest ball game, etc. -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 21:05:27 -0400 From: DDembinski Subject: Re: [PRR] crestline roundhouse Content-Length: 1436 I attempted to enter it a few years ago for some picture taking, but as I got close to the building it sounded like it was inhabited by a group of angry and quite hungry dogs. I decided not to go inside, and instead stayed by the road (and my car). By the way, there was a junkyard across the road from the roundhouse that had a PRR boxcar off its trucks, being used for storage of some sort. Is anyone aware of any effort whatsoever to try to save this facility? Michael Bezilla wrote: > Does anyone know the status of the PRR roundhouse at Crestline, Ohio? It is > still standing, I understand, but is crumbling fast & the turntable pit is > filled with water. When did it last see service? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Greg Johnson Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Renovo and the P&E Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 21:28:32 -0500 Content-Length: 2265 Greg, I couldn't find "The Philadelphia & Erie" but I did locate the following: Philadelphia and Erie Railroad: The Celebration of the Opening of the Philadelphia and Erie Rail Road ; PA: Ringwalt & Brown, 1864. booklet, 1st prtg, VG, Railroads/Pennsylvania/File (UR#:MAIN021134I) Offered for sale by 84 Charing Cross, EH? at US$45.00 > Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the The Philadelphia and Erie > Railroad by Rosenberg (sp?) I tried Amazon but they can not get it? > Thanks, > Greg > The Erie County (PA) Public Library has a copy - (814)451-6900, http://www.ecls.lib.pa.us/ At one time I found a web site on which you could search all PA libraries, but I don't seem to have bookmarked it. I remember that several had this book. I almost checked it out last Sat., but looking through it I noticed that it only covers up to the time the Pennsy took it over (1907, I think). I'm modeling the late '40s, so I passed & got "No Way To Run A Railroad" instead. -- Jerry Shickler e-mail: geshick@velocity.net ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 23:48:16 -0300 Subject: [PRR] Where's Waldo Yard and other Jersey City Questions From: fjjaeger@juno.com (Frederick J Jaeger) Content-Length: 1496 In post about a month ago related Harsimus Cove, mention was made of Waldo Yard. Where was this yard? I know where Waldo Tower was and only place that I can figure that a yard that might be Waldo was South and East of the Hudson and Manhattan (PATH) portal. Is This Correct? This yard appears to have been for interchange with the NYC (New Jersey Junction and Connecting RR) and would have been reached by crossing the PRR passenger tracks to Exchange Place. Is this correct? It appears from maps that the NYC ran along the foot (East side) of the palisades and connected with DL&W, Erie ,and PRR. My maps show little South of what I now believe is Waldo yard and wondered how far South this connection went and did interchange occur with other railroads at this point -Waldo ? Specifically DL&W, Erie or Jersey Central? TIA Frederick Jaeger Louisville Colorado _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 21:29:46 -0700 From: Roger Elliott Subject: Re: [PRR] New Baldwin Passenger Sharks Content-Length: 617 Liberty wrote: > Hello All ! > > Yes, very interesting news, as I sit here with a semi-completed Shark > set > in front of me ! Hi Joe, Are you still working on the N-scale BP20? I'm getting just a little closer on the 3768...... Cheers, Roger ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] bowser tenders Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 23:53:03 -0500 Content-Length: 4218 Bruce--The photo of the K5 in the Winter 95 Keystone is of 5699 in Baltimore in 1949. Nearly the same view, but larger print, is in the Spring 88 issue on page 30, dated December 17, 1949. The tender is equipped with the standard Kiesel trucks, so obviously the "oddball" trucks were replaced at some earlier date. It appears to me that the end of the coal boards is nearest the fourth row of riviets from the rear. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL -----Original Message----- From: Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] bowser tenders >Hank Wrote: >> >> Hmmmmm look at the Bowser tender and then the 130 P 75 behind the K-5 >> in the winter 1995 issue of the Keystone on page 29. Looks the same to me. > >I don't have that issue, so I'm out of luck, but IF the rivet lines are >arranged as on the Bowser model and the back of coal boards line up with >the fifth rivet line from the back, then Bowser has modeled one of two >tenders which were specifically built for the K5, originally as 130P70 and >then modified to 130P75. These tenders can be identified by the "oddball" >tender trucks (one of kind...well four of a kind, 2 per tender). These >trucks were used until late in the service life of the tender, and are not >depicted in the Bowser photograph, further limiting this tender to use >behind K5 locomotives in the late(?) 1950's! If you wouldn't mind, could >someone check the photograph mentioned and let us know when the photo was >taken and if the tender in question has standard Kiesel trucks, or trucks >with a large, heavy looking, almost straight tops. > >> P.S. How do we know that the Bowser tender shown was'nt a pre- >> production sample? > >Past experience?!!!! Actually, I will try to call and find out, but my >experience with Bowser has often yielded a 1950s-60s mentality that does >not jibe well with current modeling practices...for example, try gettin >them to consider not molding on the grab irons, or switching to insulated >motors to allow easy DCC instalation! My guess is that they would not >change the production even if informed of errors, as it is "good enough" >and there isn't currently any competition. > >Happy Rails >Bruce > > >Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. >Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and >Director, Nucleic Acid Services >Scott-Ritchey Research Center >334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) >http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ >*************************************************************************** ***** >If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup >trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number >of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great >literary works in Braille. >*************************************************************************** ***** >Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com > _ _ > / \ / \ > ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ > |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 01:40:40 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] PRR Truc Train trailer part II Content-Length: 4686 Hello Folks....this might be long.... A while back i posted about a old PRR Truc Train trailer that i found while looking for parts for my old tired van in a junk yard here in southeastern virginia. I stopped by there again today with the purpose of getting a better look and to get permission to take photos and measurements. When i got home i compared what i had seen to the only source i have as far a PRR Truc Train trailers go..."PRR color guide to freight and passenger equipment". This trailer is very much like the one shown in the back of the book on the TTX 50 ft. flat car. This trailer is red,has a door on both sides and the lettering is about the same. But,the rib spacing is more like the trailers shown in the middle photo on page 44 of the book.And while the lettering is the same color as the lettering on the trailer in the back of the book,its is arranged more like the ones on page 44. This leads me to believe that this trailer was ordered between the two types shown in the book. Also this trailer is missing or never had the round herald like the later Truc Train trailers...This is the way the one in the back of the book is. Now this is what i can relate to you as to what i saw until i get some photos of it. On the two doors at the rear of the trailer there is the trailer number PRR 200698 in white letters.Then there is a colored (not the red and white type,but gold,red,black and white) keystone decal centered on each door. At the front or tractor end of the trailer at the very top is the trailer number...in this case originally it was PRR 200698, but you can see where it was changed to PCZ 200698 most likely because of the merger. Then about one foot or so below this is the word PENNSYLVANIA spelled out in gold,white and black lettering. then again a foot or so below that is a PRR keystone decal in the same colors as the rear doors. Just slightly to the left and below this is a keystone bearing the initials ECSL and then EXCELSIOR LEASING inside this keystone.. On both sides of the trailer toward the front upper corner is the trailer number. Then just forward of the doors on both sides is a old ACI bar code label mounted on a thin aluminium plate. There was some other word or number just to the rear of this on both sides...but i could'nt make it out...this might have been for where to put trailer lift forks. The under carriage(wheels) are arranged like present trailers with the adjustable type carriage. All tires were Firestone tires..( Pennsy must have had some kinda deal going with them.) The whole trailer was Red.(probably original paint)The side doors had metal sheathing over wood. It has a metal frame with wood floor.(as it is with most trailers like this today.) It still has a small thin New York liecense plate at the rear just under the doors. One question i now have comes to mind...Did Pennsy's Truc Train trailers get painted in a color the same as any of the railroad rolling stock or was the red paint on these trailers formulated for just the trailers. The reason i ask this is that while i would'nt call this trailer a museum candidate.(It has rusted badly the first foot up from the bottom.) the rest of the paint while faded is still in good shape. Perhaps i can get a good color sample from a place such as behind a door seal or label plate. Also if interested i could get small samples for folks here on the list and mail them out. One more note...I asked one of the employees there about it...they told me that it had been there ever since he had worked there..which he said had been about ten years,so it must have been retired after the merger and before Conrail was formed. There are no Conrail marks anywhere on it. I know this has been long,but every one here has varied interests in the Pennsy and try to help when i can(as it is this trailer is probably to new for the years i model). So if anyone is interested let me know... In the mean time i'll try to get pictures,measurements and more info on it. til later a very tired Hank Mummert ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 10:47:59 +0000 From: jerry@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Interesting item on eBay web site item#25308236: Content-Length: 1590 I saw this item for sale at eBay, the world's largest personal trading community, and thought that you might be interested. Title of item: PRR-Construction Specification Booklet 1924 Seller: marktakacs@aol.com Starts: 08/12/98 15:41:27 PDT Ends: 08/19/98 15:41:27 PDT Price: Currently $12.00 To bid the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=25308236 Item Description: This booklet from the Pennsylvania Railroad System is on Pole Line Construction and Underground Conduit Construction along with small sections on Maintenance of the Telegraph and Telephone Plant and Operators of Private Branch Exchanges. It is dated from 1924! The pole line section contains 143 pages and the underground conduit section contains 37 pages which are filled with text, tables, and figures. The booklet measures 4" by 7". It is in excellent condition for its age, with the first few pages being a bit darkened and wrinkled, but the rest are in fine shape. See the photos below for a sample of the contents. The high bidder also pays $2.00 for shipping and handling, in the U.S. Money order and check accepted. Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading Community at http://www.ebay.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 07:36:56 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] new Bowser PRR tender From: padraice@juno.com (Patrick M Egan) Content-Length: 2643 I saw one of those casting sets in a hobby store many years ago. I'd forgotten it was English. As I recall, the one I saw had all of the castings, including a soft, lead frame. There were no other parts beyond the castings, and I am vague about whether the tender was there. However, if the tender is Penn Line, it is a 2-8-0 tender, and the modification for use on an L1 and K4 leaves us still with a H9 tender - modified. The new Bowser tender has to be an improvement, wherever the rivets are. Pat Egan On Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:32:05 -0400 Bud Kaiser writes: >The original H9 boiler casting was made by John English post WWII and >= >cost $9. Memory has fogged on whether the frame and cylinders were = >included in that price. He didn't make a tender so I had a Mantua = >tender behind mine until Penn Line issued their complete kit and made >= >the tender available separately. John English is/was not related to >Lee = >English of Bowser so Lee says. I believe that the English casting >formed = >the beginnings of the whole Penn Line series. >Bud > > >Actually, if you want to be really correct about it, the old tender >appears to be decended from a casting produced by a company whose name >I >forgot about thirty years ago. It seems the Pennsy H9 2-8-0 castings >date back to just after (maybe before) WWII to a company before Penn >Line. The old K4/L1 tender was the H9 tender with a tender collar >(coal >boards) added. It wasn't correct for either the K4 or the L1. It >sort >of resembled the L1 tender, especially at a distance if you are >nearsighted and forgot your glasses. > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Truc Train trailer part II Date: Thu, 13 Aug 98 10:27:47 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 2634 On 8/13/98 1:40 AM, Hank Mummert (bubbles@visi.net) wrote: > A while back i posted about a old PRR Truc Train trailer that i found > while looking for parts for my old tired van in a junk yard here > in southeastern virginia. I stopped by there again today with the > purpose of getting a better look and to get permission to take photos > and measurements. How much do they want for the trailer? Perhaps we "should" pursue this for either the Strasburg or Altoona museum, where neither has ANY artifacts from the Pennsy's pioneering effort in Trailer Trains! Yes, get the measurements and photos. I'd like to post them on "Keystone Crossings", if agreeable. > > When i got home i compared what i had seen to the only source i have > as far a PRR Truc Train trailers go..."PRR color guide to freight and >passenger equipment". This trailer is very much like the one > shown in the back of the book on the TTX 50 ft. flat car. This trailer > is red,has a door on both sides and the lettering is about the same. > But,the rib spacing is more like the trailers shown in the middle photo > on page 44 of the book. Be sure to measure the rib spacing...you may have found one of the very early samples. They had ribs very close together...from a photo, I'd guess around 12". Also, the overall length. The Cincinatti modelers group gave a talk on trailers at the PRRT&HS convention in April. The earliest model they covered had ribs around 47" apart...but there was an earlier version of the same length with the close ribbing! I believe the trailers were Freight Car Color, but the underframe -- and I believe the roof -- were some sort of orange. The logos you describe were definitely the earlier variety. Early sides read "PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD" diagonally. It was much later that the round "TrucTrain" circles were applied to the sides instead. What a find! ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 10:45:12 -0400 (EDT) From: alcoman Subject: [PRR] Conrail's OCS Train Disposition (fwd) Content-Length: 6293 Just in case anyone was interested William J. Enser Co-Network Administrator Technical Support & Validations alcoman@bluemoon.net net.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Online System X2 & K56flex Access www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network http://www.bluemoon.net mud.bluemoon.net 4000 - MoonMUD bbs.bluemoon.net irc.bluemoon.net - ZUHnet Buffalo, NY IRC Server ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 21:41:43 -0400 From: Kodi Marlin Subject: Conrail's OCS Train Disposition >Conrail has announced the tentative disposition for the Office Car >Special fleet. I will quote the release that was given to all of the >passengers on OCS-601 from Cincinnati to Columbus on August 11th. > >"Conrail Backgrounder > >Conrail Operation Lifesaver Special: August 11 and 13 > >Consist History > >Locomotive No. 4020 - Built in 1951 by EMD (General Motors) for the >Pennsylvania Railroad and numbered PRR 5809. Transferred to Penn >Central in 1968 and renumbered PC 4309. Amtrak acquired the unit in >1974 and renumbered it AMTK 496. In 1976, Amtrak removed the steam >generators and installed head-end power sets. Conrail purchased the >locomotive from Amtrak in 1984 and renumbered it CR 4020. Currently >assigned to Norfolk Southern. > >Locomotive No. 4021 - Built in 1952 by EMD (General Motors) for the >Pennsylvania Railroad and numbered PRR 5711. Transferred to Penn >Central in 1968 and renumbered PC 4311. Amtrak acquired the unit in >1974 and renumbered it AMTK 317. Amtrak removed the steam generators >and installed head-end power sets. Conrail purchased the locomotive >from Amtrak in 1984 and renumbered it CR 4021. Currently assigned to >CSXT. > >Locomotive No. 4022 - Built in 1951 by EMD (General Motors) for the Erie >Railroad and numbered 833. With the 1960 merger of the Erie and >Lackawanna Railroad companies, it was renumbered EL 833. The unit was >conveyed to Conrail in 1976 and renumbered CR 4022. In 1979, the >locomotive received a major overhaul in Altoona. The gear ratio of >55:22 allows for a top speed of 90 MPH. Currently assigned to CSXT. > >Observation Car No. 10 - Built in 1922 by Pullman for the New York >Central for use as a rear-end observation car. Named the "Queen >Elizabeth". Renamed the "Hudson River," it served the Empire State >Express in the early 1930's. The large rear platform was constructed to >accommodate President Franklin D. Roosevelt's wheelchair. In 1942, it >was renamed the "Kalamazoo River" and served the Twilight Limited. In >1947 it was renamed "Victoria Park" and stored for stand-by service. In >1952, it was placed in company service as an inspection car and numbered >NYC 30. It was part of the funeral train for slain presidential >candidate Robert F. Kennedy. Transferred to Penn Central in 1968 and >renumber PC 30. Briefly renumbered CR 76 before becoming CR 10 in >1977. Currently assigned to CSXT. > >Sleeper No..11 - Built in 1959 by Pullman for the Erie Railroad as a five >double-bedroom/10 roomette sleeper car. Named the "Spirit of >Youngstown." Conveyed to Conrail on April 1, 1976 and number CR 11. >Currently assigned to CSXT. > >Sleeper No. 8 - Built in 1923 by Pullman as a tourist car. Acquired by >the Southern Railway and converted to a couch in 1954 and numbered SOU >1041. Acquired by Conrail in 1983 and renumber CR 24. Converted to an >eight-bedroom sleeper in 1984 and renumbered CR 8. Currently assigned >to CSXT. > >Office Car No. 1 - Built in 1927 by Pullman as a tourist car. In 1948, >it was acquired by the Southern Railway and converted to a >dinette/coach. Its original number was SOU 3102. It was converted to >an office car in 1964 and renumber SOU 10. In 1970, it was renumbered >SOU 3. Acquired by Conrail in 1982 and renumbered CR 1. Currently >assigned to Norfolk Southern. > >Office Car No.4 - Built in 1927 by Pullman as a tourist car. In 1951, >it was acquired by the Southern Railway and converted to an office car >named the "Tennessean." In 1953, it was number SOU 4. Acquired by >Conrail in 1983 and renumbered CR 4. Currently assigned to Norfolk >Southern. > >Office Car No. 5 - Built by Pullman in 1911 for the Norfolk & Western. >Named the "Pocahontas." Norfolk Southern numbered it NS 7 and retained >the name. Conrail purchased the car in 1988 and renamed it the "Boston" >with number CR 100. Renumbered CR 5 in 1994. Currently assigned to >Norfolk Southern. > >Dome Coach No. 55 - Built in 1955 by Budd for the Atchison, Topeka & >Santa Fe and numbered ATSF 552. It was purchased by Auto-Train in 1971 >and renumbered 554. Western Rail Services bought the car in 1982 and >changed the number back to 552. The car was sold to a short line in >1986. Conrail purchased the car in 1988 and renumbered it CR 55. >Currently assigned to Norfolk Southern. > >Coach No. 27 - Built in 1947 by Budd for the New York Central, and >numbered NYC 2949. Transferred to Penn Central in 1968 and renumbered >PC 2949. Acquired by Amtrak in 1974 and renumbered AMTK 5667. Acquired >by Conrail and renumbered CR 27. Currently assigned to Norfolk Southern. > >Conference Car No. 12 - Built in 1951 by Budd for the Pennsylvania >Railroad as a parlor car, numbered PRR 7138. Transferred to Penn >Central in 1968 and renumbered PC 7138. In 1980, it was converted to a >meeting room/board room car and renumbered CR 12. Currently assigned to >CSXT. > >Theater Car No. 9 - Built in 1954 by Pullman for the Canadian National >as a dinette car and numbered CN 428. Conveyed to VIA in 1974 and >renumbered VIA 428. Acquired by Conrail in 1982 and renumbered CR 23. >In 1985, it was converted to a track inspection car and renumbered CR >9. Currently assigned to CSXT. " > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:20:33 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Renovo and the P&E Content-Length: 585 In a message dated 8/12/98 10:15:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time, gjohn195@swbell.net writes: << I got "No Way To Run A Railroad" instead. >> ***be sure to read its companion, " To Hell in a Day Coach"...great..!!!...Bill** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Where's Waldo Yard and other Jersey City Questions Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:22:19 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 749 On 12 Aug, Frederick J Jaeger wrote: > In post about a month ago related Harsimus Cove, mention was made of > Waldo Yard. Where was this yard? [ ... ] Can't you see it, in the back, peeking out from behind other railroad yards? I know there's a lot of them, but Waldo is always recognizable,with that red and white striped tower. Sorry, I just couldn't resist :-) Dennis ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:37:01 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Tricks discussion, cont'd.. Content-Length: 924 In a message dated 8/13/98 2:41:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time, PRRMAN writes: << < .PT..? >> I worked with lots of old PT men, never heard any of them refer to anything other than "daylight, middle, last". >> ****and "first, second, third, relief cycle, swing cycle, cycle relief", etc.....heard from my PRR NY and PT co-workers, incl DS, "40" and "S" offices...as in, " How come a junior man is working first levers @ DOCK ...warm and inside.......while I am out @ Grape putting train orders on subway cars in the snow..????"..........Bill** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:50:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Bej Subject: [PRR] "Broad Way" website Content-Length: 1232 As some have noticed, it's been down. We just completed a conversion from one computer to another. The "old clunker" was an HP 9000 minicomputer, 15 year old technology, running HP-UX (HP Unix). This was replaced with 3 Intel boxes running Red Hat Linux. The Web server resides on one of these, a computer that has no direct connection to any other of our computers and has no user home directories on it. Patient data security considerations, etc. etc. At any rate, I am "as we speak" in the process of tar-ing, ftp-ing, and un-tar-ing all of my web stuff. I only hope that the tar (archive) program does not fill my hard disk drive ... we'll see. At the moment, we're at 36 megs and growing. I will try to get the files over today, if clinical stuff does not prevent me from doing so. Thanks for your patience. -- Mark D. Bej bejm@eeg.ccf.org ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:15:46 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Where's Waldo Yard and other Jersey City Questions Content-Length: 790 In a message dated 8/13/98 8:44:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time, fjjaeger@juno.com writes: << n post about a month ago related Harsimus Cove, mention was made of Waldo Yard. Where was this yard? I know where Waldo Tower was and only place that I can figure that a yard that might be Waldo was South and East of the Hudson and Manhattan (PATH) portal. Is This Correct? >> ****yes...off #29 switch....more later...Bill*** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Richard F. Makse" Subject: Re: [PRR] Where's Waldo Yard and other Jersey City Questions Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:26:37 -0400 Content-Length: 1003 Fred Jaeger wrote: >In post about a month ago related Harsimus Cove, mention was made of >Waldo Yard. Where was this yard? I know where Waldo Tower was and only >place that I can figure that a yard that might be Waldo was South and >East of the Hudson and Manhattan (PATH) portal. Is This Correct? Rather than spend a million words, anyone interested can grab http://www.twinney.com/gifs/waldo4.jpg Be warned it's 196k but this should clarify a great deal about NY's harbor operations. This is excerpted from a rather large PRR NY Harbor Map from 1950 that has been annotated with copious notes. Enjoy! Dick Makse ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:46:42 -0400 From: "Robert W. Johnston" Subject: [PRR] PRR BF-20s (Baldwin Passenger Sharks) by Miracle Castings, Content-Length: 3578 I am not associated with Miracle Castings, Inc., nor have I ever been. I also inquired about an evaluation copy of their product, their return/replacement policy, as well as asked about any relationship w/ Nova-Tech. Below is their response. > Hi Robert! Thanks for your interest in our product. We expect our first > shipments to customers at the end of this week, or Monday at the latest. > Lead times from ordering to shipping will be on the order of a week to 10 > days. We will be providing kits for evaluation and review to recognized > industry magazines directly. ... > > Mike White > Miracle Castings > I followed up with questions about return/replacement policies and Nova-Tech. Their reponse: > A customer may return our product in saleable condition in its original > packaging, for any reason, within 30 days for credit or refund. The > customer must pay the shipping, unless the kit is defective. The customer > should contact us first before returning the kit for a return number. We do > not accept partially built kits for refund, for obvious reasons, unless the > customer is unable to continue building the kit due to a quality problem, or > other factor that is our responsibility. Extenuating circumstances will > always be considered if for some reason the customer cannot meet the above > terms. The bottom line is that we want happy customers, not disgruntled > ones. If there is any problem, however minor, we would very much appreciate > hearing about it. We are in this for the long haul. We have invested a lot > of money to set up this business, including renting and renovating an > industrial unit, hiring a model maker and mold maker, purchasing vacuum > equipment and many tools, computer, etc. etc. etc., and although we expect > the odd growing pain, and no doubt will make some mistakes, we will always > be willing and, indeed, anxious to correct problems and provide the best > product and service we can. ... > > As for NovaTech, we understand your concern about that issue as well. ... > > We do not, nor have we ever, had any business > connection with NovaTech. ... > > We are quite aware of the problems that people encountered > dealing with them, and with companies in general, and in the spirit of > learning from the mistakes of various other companies (instead of repeating > them) we have decided on a few internal policies that I think you will > appreciate: 1) No credit card will be billed before the product is ready > for shipping. 2) No product will be announced until the product is ready > for production. ... > > 3) We encourage our customers and other interested > parties to inform us of innacuracies (if any) that they find in our models.... > > Our intention is to work with the modelling community to make > our products better all the time. No one likes criticism, but we're willing > to accept constructive criticism happily in order to improve our products. ... > > You can feel free to quote us on these issues if you wish. > Regards! > > Mike White CEO, > & Scott Heiden, President, > Miracle Castings Inc. > I believe that it is quite promising. FYI rwj ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 14:58:20 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR Susquehanna Division 9/26/54 Content-Length: 415 ***Jerry, my lists show this, if you still need....Bill*** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 21:51:44 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Tricks Content-Length: 1365 In a message dated 98-08-13 04:02:11 EDT, bejm@gateway.eeg.ccf.org writes: << 7-3, 3-11, and 11-7, but that one showed up half an hour early as a "courtesy" to one's coming-off-shift counterpart. >> I'm trying to remember my dispatching-office days....This same "courtesy" was definitely practiced in Philly's "S" Office. An advantage was that, if the reliever was not there by, say, 6:50, the chief could (a)try to find out if he had overslept or was experiencing commuting difficulties, and (b)get somebody else ready to take over the desk at the prescribed shift change time. (There was always an assistant chief there who was qualified on all desks). Also, I know that two of the three desks had daylight start times of 7:00 and 8:00. Cannot remember the third one's time, but it may well have been 7:30. This prevented the entire division from being simultaneously involved in a turnover. All this was under Amtrak auspices, but I'm sure none of it had changed in years...... ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 22:05:46 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Book: "To Hell in a Day Coach" Content-Length: 538 ***covered the whole, sad story of RR passenger service going to the dawgs....trying to find it..., let you know. WORTH READING, although depressing...true, but still.....Bill*** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 22:46:04 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Is it real, or sumin' else Content-Length: 843 To all yuze gize, The Tyco/Mantua caboose takes a lot more than just hacking off the cupola and turning it around to become an N-8. I've done it, and wrote an article on it in Mainline back in 1990 I think. Al Stump help me out here, check your archives for me and chime in. But it comes out really nice if it is done correctly. At the time I even had to scratch build the train phone antennas. I think it is about time I redid it with some new techniques. Greg Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] New Baldwin Passenger Sharks (reply) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 98 10:26:43 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1585 On 8/14/98 12:34 AM, TGREGMRTN@aol.com (TGREGMRTN@aol.com) wrote: > Before we do anything let's see how accurate these things are. With all >the info Joe has been given we may want to avoid this one altogether and >rally >around Joe's efforts. Let's someone get a look at the shell the other guys >are producing, but agreed no need to reinvent the wheel. No need to spend >good money on toys! I have a dealer application pending with Miracle Castings (through my "Merchandise Service" business). Upon approval, I will immediately be ordering one shell for critical review against photos and drawings. As assembly progresses, I will provide feedback, photos, and make a final recommendation. If the final product meets my expectations, I will offer this product, as well as the B unit to follow and the Athearn PA mechanisms for power. Stay tuned! ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Stephen R. Sejda" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Baldwin Passenger Sharks Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 11:18:53 -0400 Content-Length: 733 > > Centipede's anyone? > > What do you use as a drive? Steal the mechanisms out from under a pair of those BUTT-UGLY brass Hallmark Centipedes. Don't throw those bodies away...... they're great for a scrap yard diorama displaying the centipedes meeting the scrapper's torch! (All you owners of these Hallmark "beauties" know what I'm talking about.) Steve Sejda ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] BP20 Shark Detailing Date: Fri, 14 Aug 98 14:56:15 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1424 What if...the Miracle Castings Passenger Shark turns out to be a winner... It is designed to fit on an Athearn PA mechanism. Jury is still out on how good these trucks will do vs. prototype. But, considering the options... But what else is needed? Cal Scale has a Shark trainphone kit, but does it have enough stanchions for the longer passenger shark, or is it made strickly for the freight shark? Could always purchase a second kit, I suppose, since the wire is additional anyway. I believe both Champ and Microscale offer Baldwin Shark decals. Do they include enough stripe material for the longer passenger sharks, or are two sets needed? What other details are desired and available? ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:33:02 -0700 Subject: [PRR] Lifelike E8 Proto2K From: staffsgtyork@juno.com Content-Length: 854 Hey all, Somebody made a reference last week about the amount of Delrin type plastic used in the undecorated E8 unit. Was the pilot made of this material? Don't care about the grabs as I will replace those with metal anyway. Thanx SSGT York _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 19:37:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] New Baldwin Passenger Sharks (reply) Content-Length: 1093 On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Jerry wrote: > "Merchandise Service" business). Upon approval, I will immediately be > ordering one shell for critical review against photos and drawings. As > assembly progresses, I will provide feedback, photos, and make a final > recommendation. I plan to do the same (actually, I ordered mine already) for another list, and figured I'd also drop a copy of the review here, at least if you don't mind the "competing review" ;-) > If the final product meets my expectations, I will offer this product, as > well as the B unit to follow and the Athearn PA mechanisms for power. Note that it's apparently not a drop-in deal, and possibly even less so than the Novatech Erie-Builts. -D ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RLA0220@webtv.net (RICHARD ADER) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 19:58:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Mortar joints Content-Length: 496 Hey guys, Does anyone know of a way to paint the white cement mortar lines in brick structures? I'm modeling HO guage. Thanks. Rich ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 21:28:39 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Is it real, or sumin' else Content-Length: 898 Greg, Believe your Mantua cabice/N8 (two mantua offset cupola cabeese equal N8 reasonable fascimile) was November 1990 Mainline Modeler, another story br other author was published in also April 1982 Model Railroader. I'vegot done based upon your MM article but using Bowser detail parts for end details and roof walks. Not that difficult really, about the level of a resin kiy assembly with more smoothing. I've got a couple of starts on the updated article with bowser details but never got arolund to finishing it. Tom V. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 23:19:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] New Baldwin Passenger Sharks Content-Length: 917 On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Stephen R. Sejda wrote: > > > Centipede's anyone? > > > > What do you use as a drive? > > Steal the mechanisms out from under a pair of those BUTT-UGLY brass > Hallmark Centipedes. Don't throw those bodies away...... they're great for > a scrap yard diorama displaying the centipedes meeting the scrapper's > torch! (All you owners of these Hallmark "beauties" know what I'm talking > about.) Feh. I'm told such units are obtainable in the $150 range; I haven't yet found any. I'd be happy to actually run them. -D ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 00:19:42 EDT Subject: [PRR] BP60a, possible drivetrain Content-Length: 1023 While I am not a diesel fan, I make an exception fot the baby faces having seen them in my youth, on the Red Arrow, I think. Why not use the frame & drive off the Spectrum DD40AX to provide the D trucks and drive and the frame and wheelsets from a dummy F3 for the B trucks [I know--they were unpowered] and frame extension. If the motor unit can't be shortned, then cut off the outer wheelsets of the aft D truck and fuse them to one of the "Bs" Instead of a 2D+D2 you will have a 2D+4B but it might work. You will have to allow for some lateral motion on the unpowered trucks. Let me know if anyone thinks this will work. Jerry Finefrock, jcfmmf@aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 00:34:07 EDT Subject: [PRR] Books on Ebay...until Sat, Aug 15th. Content-Length: 618 ****I recently mentioned, "To Hell In A Day Coach", by Peter Lyon, 1967. This is offerred on ebay as #24656045, closes 0924 PDT. Also, Schotter's " Growth and Development of the PRR", #24682965, until 1314 PDT. <>......Bill*** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 01:51:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] BP20 Shark Detailing Content-Length: 1507 On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Jerry wrote: > What if...the Miracle Castings Passenger Shark turns out to be a winner... > > It is designed to fit on an Athearn PA mechanism. Jury is still out on > how good these trucks will do vs. prototype. But, considering the > options... Might be amusing to use a P2K mechanism, but I'm not sure how well that will work. > What other details are desired and available? Cal-Scale also has those ugly ladders that appeared on the noses in later years. Note also: 5770 and 5771 were delivered with 2 headlights. 5770 later lost its lower headlight. 5771 did not. All but 5770, 5771 and 5771B had curved plating over the top corners of the vent on each side. As far as I can tell, these units were delivered without and never got it. Also it should be possibly to build a DR4-4-1500 by chopping one of these down. Of course, if Miracle elected to just make a DR4-4-1500 that would work too. -D (is there a problem with the list? i'm seeing like 6 hour turnaround or more whereas I used to see something on the lines of 2 or less hours until a few weeks ago. am i the only one?) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 21:16:14 -1000 From: "Eric J. Minton" Subject: [PRR] Passenger Rail Service Content-Length: 827 Aloha, I know this is a little off the PRR but I was shocked to find out today as I tried to book the next trip I take for my union. They are sending me to Las Vegas on October. The travel agent booked me to LAX and tried to make rail reservations and Amtrak only offer's BUS service. A chance to ride a train and they suggest the BUS. Unless I can find another rout I fly all the way. Anybody know the idiot in this RAILROAD suggestion the BUS. Thanks, Eric ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 06:39:10 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Mortar joints Content-Length: 764 In a message dated 98-08-15 04:00:12 EDT, Rich writes: > Does anyone know of a way to paint the white cement mortar lines in > brick structures? I'm > modeling HO guage. > If the surface has the mortar joints recessed use spackling compound from the hardware store. Simply rub it over the surface, it stays in the joints and rubs off the surface. Harold Modeling the Middle Division (1916) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Mortar joints Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 08:49:17 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 1010 On 14 Aug, RICHARD ADER wrote: > Does anyone know of a way to paint the white cement mortar lines in > brick structures? Assuming there's relief to the casting, the easiest I've found (and I despise painting structures :-) is to paint the whole wall mortar color, then drybrush brick color. Use a couple of different runs of slightly different brick color to create the natural variations found in brick. Some friends have experimented with an ink roller instead of drybrushing, with somewhat variable results, due to windows and surface variations in the brick molding. > I'm modeling HO guage. Doesn't matter; I'm in N. Dennis ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 10:49:48 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Books on Ebay...until Sat, Aug 15th. Content-Length: 781 In a message dated 8/15/98 8:44:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRRSignals@aol.com writes: << Also, Schotter's " Growth and Development of the PRR", #24682965, until 1314 PDT. >> Oh, darn. I hoped use of "Pennsy" would hide my high bid on Schotter's book.. Burgess & Kennedy's 1949 Centennial History is also on the Ebay block until.1315 PDT (that's 3:15 p.m. EDT for you civilian types back in PRR land) Tom V. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 10:03:39 -0500 From: Greg Johnson Subject: Re: [PRR] Books on Ebay...until Sat, Aug 15th. Content-Length: 1246 PRRSignals@aol.com wrote: > > ****I recently mentioned, "To Hell In A Day Coach", by Peter Lyon, 1967. This > is offerred on ebay as #24656045, closes 0924 PDT. > > Also, Schotter's " Growth and Development of the PRR", #24682965, until 1314 > PDT. > <>......Bill*** > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". RE: "To Hell in a Day Coach". If anyone is interested, I know where there are about a dozen copies of this title available on the internet. Average price is about $16. Regards, Greg Johnson gjohn195@swbell.net ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 11:39:00 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Passenger Rail Service and Altoona Railfest Content-Length: 1254 Speaking of rail travel I am going to attend Railfest in Altoona in October and I booked my reservation on Amtrak this morning. Round trip to Philadelphia was only $126. We leave Waldo, FL (10 miles north of Gainesville at 1:30 AM and arrive the same day at 6:30 PM. We could have taken the train all the way to Altoona for additional $40 but we are going to rent a car and railfan the Middle Division for a couple of days before Railfest. As some of you may know I am modeling the Middle Division on my home layout and am also building 4 modules for PRRMO. Photographic stops include Enola, Lewisburg, Mt Union, Huntingdon, and Spruce Creek. Also plan a side trip on the East Broadtop. Heading back we intend to spend a day in Strasburg and visit the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania for the third time in two years. Harold Gainesville, FL Modeling the Middle Division in 1916 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 12:13:45 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Mortar joints Content-Length: 819 In a message dated 98-08-15 11:36:16 EDT, I wrote: > If the surface has the mortar joints recessed use spackling compound from > the > hardware store. Simply rub it over the surface, it stays in the joints and > rubs off the surface. PS: You can also paint the brick in a variety of colors prior to applying the spackling compound, just be sure to let the paint dry for about a week before mortaring. Harold Modeling the Middle Division in 1916 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 12:18:26 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Books on Ebay...until Sat, Aug 15th. Content-Length: 1019 In a message dated 8/15/98 7:49:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, LINESWEST writes: << PDT. >> Oh, darn. I hoped use of "Pennsy" would hide my high bid on Schotter's book.. Burgess & Kennedy's 1949 Centennial History is also on the Ebay block until.1315 PDT (that's 3:15 p.m. EDT for you civilian types back in PRR land) Tom V. >> *****ummmm, ConRail outlawed our common use of 24 hour time, but EL, CNJ and others had it in use. < CR Bosses got 'confused' >. I do believe that " 1315 PDT" translates to +3, = "1615 EDT, -12 = 4:15 pm EDT.......sorry to expose this, Tom, as I did not recognize handle... I am not bidding.....all your'n...Bill*** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 12:31:25 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Passenger Rail Service..??? Content-Length: 767 ****Re: Eric's comment, when Ron McELrath went to ride #570, Bflo Express from Hbg to Bflo in 1970 , the Hbg tkt agent told him, " it is kind of crummy and dirty, why not take the BUS instead". Good personal advice for 'normal' humans, possibly.....but Ron's great audio tape came out of that ride, as he got 'up front'. Only four (?) passengers in the one P70 coach train behind the E7.....Bill*** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] List Delays Date: Sat, 15 Aug 98 13:32:19 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1046 On 8/15/98 1:51 AM, Derrick J Brashear (shadow@DEMENTIA.ORG) wrote: >(is there a problem with the list? i'm seeing like 6 hour turnaround or >more whereas I used to see something on the lines of 2 or less hours until >a few weeks ago. am i the only one?) My ISP had a POP center problem and the list connection was down for over 14 hours. When it came back up, lots of inbounds X 250 subscribers... you know the rest. It's catching up, but there was quite a lag. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RLA0220@webtv.net (RICHARD ADER) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 14:22:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Mortar joints Content-Length: 544 Guys, Thank you to all who responed to my requast for help. I have three buildigs, a church, firehouse, and roundhouse thus far to do. Guess I'll be busy awhile. Thanks again Rich ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrew Harmantas" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Baldwin Passenger Sharks (reply) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 11:45:43 PDT Content-Length: 1136 >If the final product meets my expectations, I will offer this product, as >well as the B unit to follow and the Athearn PA mechanisms for power. _______________________________ Isn't the passenger Shark much longer than the PA? I took two Model Power shells and spliced them together to make what I thought was the correct length body for a Pennsy passenger shark. I had to splice brass bar stock into the Athearn PA mechanism to get the truck spacing extended properly. Does anyone know if the new casting will have something in it that will solve this little problem? Andrew Harmantas, an SPF watching the action at C&O Milepost FM Zero. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrew Harmantas" Subject: Re: [PRR] Lifelike E8 Proto2K Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 12:05:35 PDT Content-Length: 1864 >Somebody made a reference last week about the amount of Delrin type >plastic used in the undecorated E8 unit. Was the pilot made of this >material? __________________________ Yes. The E8 pilots were done in one of those too slick to hold paint for long engineered plastics. The E7 pilots, OTOH, were done in styrene. Now, before you get an idea that you can use the E7 pilots on your E8...well...you sorta can, but there wil be some work out in the shop. First, the mounting pads are different, and, (part B), the two pilots that come with the undec E7's are not the same as those that come with the E8's. While the undec E7 and E8 both come with the near-univeral "creased" pilot, the E7 (in styrene) has a huge opening for the coupler and this has to be patched a bit to look good. But, since it is styrene, this is possible. The original passenger E7 pilot is onlygood for E7's. It differs from the as delivered E8 smooth pilot. And, since we are all Pennsy modelers here, the creased pilot does us no good at all. The P2K E8 smooth pilot is OK for the Pennsy E8--pretty close. The smooth pilot that comes with the E7 is close for these units as delivered, but if you look at photos from latter years, you can see most E7's had a modernized smooth pilot similar to those on the E8's. Sanddard RR....remember? Andrew Harmantas, SPF ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 15:50:50 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] BP20 Shark Detailing Content-Length: 1168 In a message dated 98-08-15 01:38:17 EDT,Jerry writes : << Cal Scale has a Shark trainphone kit, but does it have enough stanchions for the longer passenger shark, or is it made strickly for the freight shark? Could always purchase a second kit, I suppose, since the wire is additional anyway.>> No. There are 18 - 20 (sometimes there are extas) stanchions in kit --need 24. I suppose if you were doing two RF-16's at the same time, you would have enough left over( if there were two exta in each kit) to do a BP20A with one kit. <> Don't know about Champ. Microscale has enough to do two units. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 15:58:04 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] BP20 Shark Detailing Content-Length: 627 In a message dated 98-08-15 09:59:49 EDT, Derrick writes: << Of course, if Miracle elected to just make a DR4-4-1500 that would work too. >> Is this different than the unit that Roco will reintroduce with improvements about the first of the year? Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 16:01:58 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Mortar joints Content-Length: 928 In a message dated 98-08-15 03:59:54 EDT, Rich writes: << Does anyone know of a way to paint the white cement mortar lines in brick structures? I'm modeling HO guage. >> I hesitate to mention this because it probably dates from the 40's, but guy in our club gave a clinic on weathering buildings and used white shoe polish. Daub and wipe, I guess. Reason I hate to mention it is because he has a tendency to use methods which predate many better materials probably available today(I missed his clinic or I would comment on the technique). Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 13:32:01 -0700 Subject: Re: [PRR] Mortar joints From: staffsgtyork@juno.com Content-Length: 1263 On Fri, 14 Aug 1998 19:58:45 -0400 (EDT) RLA0220@webtv.net (RICHARD ADER) writes: >Hey guys, >Does anyone know of a way to paint the white cement mortar lines in >brick structures? Dear Rich, If the structure is molded in a brick colored plastic, brush Modelflex Antique White # 16-02 over the brick with a wide brush, then wipe off the brick surface with a paper towel. Use the paint full strenght. After the paint is wiped off, a slight film will be left that adds a natural weathering to the brick by removing the plastic's sheen. The Antique White has a natural mortar look without looking too flat or too shiny. Sincerely, SSGT York _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] New Baldwin Passenger Sharks (reply) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 98 20:00:35 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1123 On 8/15/98 2:45 PM, Andrew Harmantas (frisco484@hotmail.com) wrote: >Isn't the passenger Shark much longer than the PA? I took two Model >Power shells and spliced them together to make what I thought was the >correct length body for a Pennsy passenger shark. I had to splice brass >bar stock into the Athearn PA mechanism to get the truck spacing >extended properly. Does anyone know if the new casting will have >something in it that will solve this little problem? Miracle Castings web site makes mention that they addressed this. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:56:55 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] Liberty Limited cars,Walthers and Post WWII Content-Length: 1699 Hi Folks.... One of the bosses at work the other day gave me some old magazines and in one of them(Nov.1989 Model Railroader) it had plans for a Heavy weight Pullman saying it was a PRR Heavyweight combine. It goes on to say that these cars were used by the PRR on its name trains. but mostly mentions the Broadway Limited and the Liberty Limited. Here is a list of the car names.... Cars built to Pullman plan 3951 in 1925. Liberty Bell,Liberty Boys,Liberty County,Liberty Grove,Liberty Island, Liberty Park,Liberty Pole and Liberty Tree. Cars built to Pullman plan 3951c in 1926. Liberty Cap,Liberty Colors,Liberty Hill and Liberty Street Car built to Pullman plan 3960 also in 1926? (note this car was a compartment-lounge-observation car) Liberty Hall Now my question is this...were any of these car used after WWII on the Liberty Limited or any other train that might have run on the Northern Central? I am lucky in that i have a old Walthers car that is if not identical then very near identical to the car shown in the plans on page 110-111 or Model Railroader(car shown is Liberty Bell) Does anyone know? Til Later Hank M. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:13:25 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] Pullman Combine Content-Length: 820 Hello again... One more question... Were these heavyweight Pullman cars painted in Pullman Green or were they tuscan? I know some cars owned by Pullman were painted tuscan,but with the Pullman Lettering.This only happened on the Pennsy that i know of because of the amount of Pullman cars Pennsy used and the railroads own clout.Pennsy was a important customer for Pullman. Hank Mummert ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 23:31:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] New Baldwin Passenger Sharks (reply) Content-Length: 1058 On Sat, 15 Aug 1998, Andrew Harmantas wrote: > Isn't the passenger Shark much longer than the PA? I took two Model > Power shells and spliced them together to make what I thought was the > correct length body for a Pennsy passenger shark. I had to splice brass Yeah, but the freight shark is the size of an FA (and what you made was the never-produced RP22; As DR-4-4-1500 is to DR-6-4-2000, so RF16 is to RP22 I guess > bar stock into the Athearn PA mechanism to get the truck spacing > extended properly. Does anyone know if the new casting will have > something in it that will solve this little problem? Their parts list includes a complete (i'm guessing) frame -D ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 00:33:20 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] List Delays Content-Length: 479 ***Derrick, that is why I put my posting time on my note...to see the delay. Thanks for the explanation, Jerry....Bill*** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:37:31 -0700 From: ironhorse@sprintmail.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Lifelike E8 Proto2K Content-Length: 1963 Greetings, I'd bet Life-Like is making the pilot in something on the line of ABS plastic. It's not as brittle/fragile as styrene and can be painted. If it were made from Delrin (R) or Celcon or some other engineering plastic, it wouldn't hold paint worth a (you-know-what). However, another manufacturer, Bachmann, says they've found a paint that'll adhere to the stuff and they've been using it for a couple of years on their G scale trains. Just wish I could find out if it's true and what brand of paint their factory in China is using. It sure would be a boon to those of us who want to paint/repaint the safety bands on the newer models' handrails. CF staffsgtyork@juno.com wrote: > > Hey all, > > Somebody made a reference last week about the amount of Delrin type > plastic used in the undecorated E8 unit. Was the pilot made of this > material? Don't care about the grabs as I will replace those with metal > anyway. > > Thanx > SSGT York > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 02:12:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] BP20 Shark Detailing Content-Length: 990 On Sat, 15 Aug 1998 Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-08-15 09:59:49 EDT, Derrick writes: > > << Of course, if Miracle elected to just make a DR4-4-1500 that would > work too. >> > > Is this different than the unit that Roco will reintroduce with improvements > about the first of the year? Yes. Key differences (pardon my poor lingo:-) a) nose of the RF16 (Roco/E-R model) is ~1ft shorter than the DR4-4-1500 b) less of the "frame" below the batten strip near the lower edge of the body of the DR4-4-15 c) horizontal slatted vents below the roof instead of the gridded screens on the RF16s. -D ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: [PRR] BP20 Sharks Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 10:18:52 -0400 Content-Length: 883 To the group, Here's a few measurements for all you passenger shark modelers: Coupled length: 80'0" A unit, 78'2 1/2" B unit. Rear Truck Centerline to Rear Coupler: 15"11 1/2" A and B units. Front Truck Centerline to Front Coupler: 17'9" A unit, 15'11 1/2" B unit. Front Truck Centerline to Rear Truck Centerline: 46'3 1/2" A and B units. Truck Axle Spacing: 7'9" A and B units. The above measurements are from Alvin Staufer's Pennsylvania Railroad Locomotive Diagrams book. Jerry Breon ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 10:43:58 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] Liberty Limited cars,Walthers and Post WWII Content-Length: 2246 bubbles@visi.net wrote: > > Were these heavyweight Pullman cars painted in Pullman Green or were > they tuscan? I know some cars owned by Pullman were painted tuscan,but > with the Pullman Lettering.This only happened on the Pennsy that i know > of because of the amount of Pullman cars Pennsy used and the railroads > own clout.Pennsy was a important customer for Pullman. > Hank, Referring to the _Pullman Company Descriptive List of Cars, September 1, 1937_, (Wayner Reprint), here is what it says: > Cars built to Pullman plan 3951 in 1925. Liberty Bell,..Boys,..County,..Island,..Park,..Tree. 3951L, PRR colors Liberty Grove - not in the 1937 book Liberty Pole - Plan 3951, PRR Colors > Cars built to Pullman plan 3951C in 1926. Liberty Cap,Liberty Colors,Liberty Hill and Liberty Street Plan 3951G, PRR colors > Car built to Pullman plan 3960 also in 1926? > (note this car was a compartment-lounge-observation car) Liberty Hall - not found - Other ...Hall cars were Plan 3960, PRR Colors Only Liberty Cap shows up in the 1951 book Pullman lists four railroads with custom colors: PRR with "Penna. Std. Red," Milwaukee with C.M.M.St.P.&P. Yellow, Tennessee Central with TC Red, and Wabash with Wabash Blue > I am lucky in that i have a old Walthers car that is if not identical > then very near identical to the car shown in the plans on page 110-111 > or Model Railroader (car shown is Liberty Bell) Walthers produced, in O Scale two versions of the Pullman Club-Baggage. Without trying to look up their prototype eqivalents, one or the other (or both) is at least approximately correct for Broadway and Century service. I am sorry, but I cannot answer your question about their use on the Liberty Limited or other trains. Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 11:15:35 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Liberty Limited cars,Walthers and Post WWII Content-Length: 1614 In a message dated 98-08-16 03:56:12 EDT,Hank M writes: << Now my question is this...were any of these car used after WWII on the Liberty Limited or any other train that might have run on the Northern Central? >> The Liberty Limited was equpped with a lightweight round-end observation in the Fleet of Modernism colors by 1939. Very few open end observations are listed in PRR consists after WWII. The Queen Mary Parlor-observation on the Detroit Arrow may have lasted the longest. There was a 10-section obs-lge listed on the Southland (I have an unbuilt Walthers kit) but that may have really been converted to a solarium car by then --does anyone else know? My recollection from readings is that many "luxury" cars like these heavyweight obs-lges would probably have been removed from most trains during WWII, possibly even used in troop service (?). I am not sure what happened following the war and what the disposition of these Pullmans was. I do know the IC and Wabash retained open end HW observations on Chicago-St. Louis past the war. Again, geezer that I am, I was only a toddler in those days, so I am relying on written sources (except for the Chicago-St. Louis experiences). Bob Zoeller Fox Point, WI ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 11:22:19 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Liberty Limited cars,Walthers and Post WWII Content-Length: 791 In a message dated 98-08-16 03:56:12 EDT, Hank M. writes: << Now my question is this...were any of these car used after WWII on the Liberty Limited or any other train that might have run on the Northern Central? >> Disregard my previous answer to this question. I totally misread and answered a question you didn't ask (about the Federal series observation cars) !. It is early on Sunday morning :-). Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 11:26:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Lifelike E8 Proto2K Content-Length: 878 On Sat, 15 Aug 1998 ironhorse@sprintmail.com wrote: > Greetings, > > I'd bet Life-Like is making the pilot in something on the line of ABS > plastic. It's not as brittle/fragile as styrene and can be painted. If > it were made from Delrin (R) or Celcon or some other engineering > plastic, it wouldn't hold paint worth a (you-know-what). I've heard other complaints (yesterday!) that it doesn't hold paint, and that they ended up using a molded-the-right-color pilot for their E8. (ACL, not PRR) -D ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RLA0220@webtv.net (RICHARD ADER) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 13:39:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] G-72 Content-Length: 986 SPF's, Has anyone experienced a problem trying to reach Mark Bej via email? He requested further information on that time book I found at a church flea mkt. (G-72) that I posted a few weeks back. Mark if you're checking, the info is: The Pennsylvania Railroad G 72 Time Worked Cover is hardbound measuring 10"x141/2" and contains aprox 100 pages of blank time sheet like forms. (all the same front and back and are not perforated) I thought it a good buy at $2.00. Can anyone tell me what it was used for and how? Thanks. Rich ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 08:24:02 -1000 From: "Eric J. Minton" Subject: [PRR] Re: Las Vegas Content-Length: 1513 Aloha. In receipt of your response, but I find your answer incredible. The trip referred to was full, maybe 5 or 6 seats left on a 6 or 7 car train including sleeping car that went past Vegas. This train didn't have a diner but they announced one was going to be added . How do you become self sufficient if you don't operate, no expenses, no revenue, = balanced? Sorry to be so sarcastic but I just don't believe the answer you gave. Eric At 07:07 AM 8/16/98 -0700, you wrote: >Eric J. Minton wrote: >> >> Why is the LA LV route discontinued? I am going to a conference in October >> and I am not about to get of the plane to take a BUS to Vegas. Last time I >> went to the conference in Vegas I had a great TRAIN ride and wanted to do >> so again. This time my Daughter was going with me. She lives in the LA area. >> >> Thanks, >> Eric > > >Thank you for your interest in amtrak, > >Amtrak had to discontinue certain routes for financial reasons.The >decision was based on many factors,ridership,cost to revenue ratio >etc.amtrak is expected to be self sufficient by the year 2002. >customer service center > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RLA0220@webtv.net (RICHARD ADER) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 15:37:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Railfan Content-Length: 856 Guys, I was searching the net last night and came across a funny entry: You know you're an Idot railfan when; 1) You name your cat Chessie 2) You name your dog Conrail 3) You tell your wife you want to dye Conrails' fur blue. 4) The dispatcher calls you at home for the location of a particular lcomotive. It goes on and on. Some real funny ones. And guess what?! I can't find it again. Have any of you seen it and can tell me where it can be brought up? Thanks Rich ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Liberty" Subject: [PRR] New Bowser T1 Rigid Frame conversion ![commercial] Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 16:13:17 -0400 Content-Length: 852 Hi All, We have just run the first production samples of the new Rigid Frame conversion set for the Bowser T1 loco !! We have some fitting and running tests to perform, but so far all looks well ! How many of you would be interested in such a product. It is designed to use the factory (Bowser) hardware. Estimated cost for the two pc. rigid frame conversion is $ 12.00 !! We won't run it unless there is enough interest. Thanks, Joe Zappa, Liberty Model Productions ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] RailFest '98 Date: Sun, 16 Aug 98 19:12:48 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1744 Received my brochure yesterday for RailFest... October 3-4 Adults $12; children 2-12 $4; under free. Excursion train ticket: $12 all ages Features: Walking tours of the Juniata Locomotive Shops Newly opened Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum Horseshoe Curve Excursions (see below) Conrail Business Train (probably last chance to see) The Norfolk Southern Lawmen (music group) Commemorative Stamp Cancellation* *USPS special office for two days will cancel stamps commemorating merger of Conrail into NS. Excursion times: Sat. 11:40, 1:30, 3:20 Sun. 9:50, 11:40, 1:30, 3:20 [Seems like more trains on Sunday this year] REMINDER: Carl Haslett (carl.haslett@lmco.com) is organizing the PRR-Talk contingent this year, which includes a group excursion and dinner together at Hoss's. Carl: Any count yet? What day are you shooting for? There is now a very good chance that I WILL make it, as my brainwashed six year old daughter would like to go as a birthday present ! Would leave very early to arrive at Cresson by sunrise, as I did last year. What a place to be in the chill of the morning eating an egg McMuffin! ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 19:25:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Edward Turner - Atlanta - SSE Subject: [PRR] Where are they now? Content-Length: 1737 As I begin my collection of PRR HO locomotive models (circa 1963) I have an interest in gathering as much info as possible on the particular road numbers in the collection. One thing I am interested in is when locomotives were retired/scrapped and/or otherwise transferred around (post PRR). During the week a lot of talk has gone on about the Baldwin Sharks. That new model looks promising - but my research has shown that in 1962 PRR traded them all in. So that piece of info is important for someone like myself modeling a fairly late time period. Models/Road #'s of particular interest are ones in the LifeLike Proto2000 line (E-7s, E-8's GP9's, etc). If someone has access to the data - I would be willing to sort through it and put together a web page. What other info would be good to document? Maybe we can build a small database on each road number in the Proto2000 line? (for a start anyway!) Any thoughts on the subject?? TIA for any info. Regards, Ed -+-+-===-+-+- -+-+-+-+-=====-+-+-+-+- -+-+-===-+-+- | Edward F. Turner, System Support Engineer ed.turner@east.sun.com | + Sun Microsystems, Inc., Enterprise Services Ph 770 360-6466 + | 3655 North Point Parkway, Alpharetta, GA 30005 Fax 770 360-6460 | -+-+-===-+-+- -+-+-+-+-=====-+-+-+-+- -+-+-===-+-+- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 21:54:41 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Liberty Limited cars,Walthers and Post WWII Content-Length: 1242 Hank, That Walther's car you spoke of was a combine? I don't have the Walthers passenger car plan book in front of me, but it seems that car was a baggage- club type? Seems that would have become obsolete on a high roller like the Liberty Ltd after WWII, but I wonder if it might have been assigned to a lesser train, at least south of harrisburg. Some of the connecting trains running Harrisburg-Baltimore-Washington were pretty respectable(they had to be, to compete with the B&O) but most of the lounge/sleeper service seemed to be provided by 5 and 6 DB-lounges by the early 50's. Still, there may have been a window of years in the late fourties when these could have run. (Wish I woulda bought that 1948 Guide I had in my hands a few years ago, but man the guy sellin' it was a stiff!) Let me snoop around a bit and see what I can find out. Regards, Barry Peltier ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:12:30 +0000 From: jerry@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Interesting item on eBay web site item#25892035: ++PRR CT Content-Length: 1734 I saw this item for sale at eBay, the world's largest personal trading community, and thought that you might be interested. Title of item: ++PRR CT 1000 JULY 1, 1896-YES! ! *1896*++ Seller: railfan23@aol.com Starts: 08/16/98 16:16:37 PDT Ends: 08/23/98 16:16:37 PDT Price: Currently $5.00 To bid the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=25892035 Item Description: This July 1st 1896 CT 1000 of approx. 100 pages is a great collector piece with a wealth of pre-turn of the century information. It is approx. 3 7/8in. by 8 1/4in. and has a plain black cover. There is an 1896 calendar inside the front cover and an 1897 calendar inside the rear cover. 11 of the pages contain a listing of ALL PRR passenger and freight cars by model and number. For example: PRR Passenger Cars for emigrants are numbered 2648-2669. There are also car listings for the Philadelphia and Erie, Northern Central RY, Philadelphia, Wilmington and Baltimore and the West Jersey and Seashore. There is some soiling and writing on the inside, and a few minor tears on the spine but the book is in overall good condition for its age of over a 100 years. Add $2.50 to the final bid for S&H in the continental USA. Thank you and please see our other auctions. Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading Community at http://www.ebay.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] New Bowser T1 Rigid Frame conversion ![commercial] Date: Mon, 17 Aug 98 06:36:05 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1160 On 8/16/98 4:13 PM, Liberty (liberty@infonline.net) wrote: >We have just run the first production samples of the new Rigid Frame >conversion set for the Bowser T1 loco !! > >We have some fitting and running tests to perform, but so far all looks >well ! > >How many of you would be interested in such a product. It is designed to >use the factory (Bowser) hardware. > >Estimated cost for the two pc. rigid frame conversion is $ 12.00 !! > >We won't run it unless there is enough interest. What minimum radius will be required? (Sounds like a reasonable question, eh?) ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Liberty" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Bowser T1 Rigid Frame conversion ![commercial] Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 07:20:59 -0400 Content-Length: 1911 Jerry, Yes, a very Good question ! We haven't done the running trials yet, and this question will be answered then. I would expect it to be no less then around 32" or so. Perhaps even greater. It certainly won't be for everyone. Anyhow, right now I need to know if there is enough interest in this item for us to bother with. "Thank you's" to Dr. Bruce Smith for setting up the master frame set !!! J. Zappa, Liberty Model Productions ---------- > From: Jerry > To: Liberty ; PRR-Talk > Subject: Re: [PRR] New Bowser T1 Rigid Frame conversion ![commercial] > Date: Monday, August 17, 1998 6:36 AM > > On 8/16/98 4:13 PM, Liberty (liberty@infonline.net) wrote: > > >We have just run the first production samples of the new Rigid Frame > >conversion set for the Bowser T1 loco !! > > > >We have some fitting and running tests to perform, but so far all looks > >well ! > > > >How many of you would be interested in such a product. It is designed to > >use the factory (Bowser) hardware. > > > >Estimated cost for the two pc. rigid frame conversion is $ 12.00 !! > > > >We won't run it unless there is enough interest. > > What minimum radius will be required? (Sounds like a reasonable question, > eh?) > > ----------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton > "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > ----------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Where are they now? Date: Mon, 17 Aug 98 07:52:38 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 2087 On 8/16/98 7:25 PM, Edward Turner - Atlanta - SSE (Ed.Turner@East.Sun.COM) wrote: >Models/Road #'s of particular interest are ones in the LifeLike Proto2000 >line >(E-7s, E-8's GP9's, etc). If someone has access to the data - I would be >willing to sort through it and put together a web page. > >What other info would be good to document? Maybe we can build a small >database >on each road number in the Proto2000 line? (for a start anyway!) > >Any thoughts on the subject?? Been there, done that... See http://kc.pennsyrr.com/databases.html Among the databases I have online is the all-time diesel locomotive roster. Search by road # to get many of your answers. I use it every time Proto 2000 makes a release, to insure that it is an accurate number for the model depicted. It also provides the build date, so I know if the unit existed as of the time I am modeling. Many of the units also have photos online. As to the disposition of the units...as I am provided info, I will add it to the database. Why make another web site with redundant info? Send me the data and I'll work it in. Also online: cabin car roster, electric loco roster. I have someone keying in the steam roster data (A's are done but I haven't posted). I will be doing the same with passenger equipment. For freight equipment, see Rob's web pages. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] RailFest 98 Excursion Consist Date: Mon, 17 Aug 98 07:54:55 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1230 The excursion train at RailFest this year WILL NOT be ex-PRR equipment like last year. Here's the news, from a direct source: >While we will have MARC equipment this year it does not >appear that the consist will be MARC I (ex-PRR cars). There are two >competing >events in Maryland (Cumberland & Brunswick) and those sponsors have requested >the MARC I equipment. For sound political reasons MARC officials have >elected >to send the MARC I's to those trips. We will likely use MARC II (Sumitoma) >cars. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:17:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Edward Turner - Atlanta - SSE Subject: Re: [PRR] Where are they now? Content-Length: 3508 Jerry, I am familiar with the databases you have on-line. I really like the job you have done with all the info you have on your Web-Site. What I would like to do is to try to expand the info that is available. If I can put it together I would gladly pass it on so you could increase the info you have. I am NOT looking to set up a new web site. I can barely keep up with the web sites I maintain at work - and I get paid to keep them up to date :) I'm just trying to satisfy my own craving for information and am willing to make sure it gets shared if I can find it. Any other thoughts on what data we can add to Jerry's Locomotive Database and where we might find it? Regards, Ed > Subject: Re: [PRR] Where are they now? > Date: Mon, 17 Aug 98 07:52:38 -0400 > From: Jerry > To: "Edward Turner - Atlanta - SSE" , "PRR-Talk" > Mime-Version: 1.0 > > On 8/16/98 7:25 PM, Edward Turner - Atlanta - SSE > (Ed.Turner@East.Sun.COM) wrote: > > >Models/Road #'s of particular interest are ones in the LifeLike Proto2000 > >line > >(E-7s, E-8's GP9's, etc). If someone has access to the data - I would be > >willing to sort through it and put together a web page. > > > >What other info would be good to document? Maybe we can build a small > >database > >on each road number in the Proto2000 line? (for a start anyway!) > > > >Any thoughts on the subject?? > > Been there, done that... > > See http://kc.pennsyrr.com/databases.html > > Among the databases I have online is the all-time diesel locomotive > roster. Search by road # to get many of your answers. I use it every time > Proto 2000 makes a release, to insure that it is an accurate number for > the model depicted. It also provides the build date, so I know if the > unit existed as of the time I am modeling. Many of the units also have > photos online. > > As to the disposition of the units...as I am provided info, I will add it > to the database. > > Why make another web site with redundant info? Send me the data and I'll > work it in. > > Also online: cabin car roster, electric loco roster. I have someone > keying in the steam roster data (A's are done but I haven't posted). I > will be doing the same with passenger equipment. For freight equipment, > see Rob's web pages. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com > Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. > Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com > The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! > > -+-+-===-+-+- -+-+-+-+-=====-+-+-+-+- -+-+-===-+-+- | Edward F. Turner, System Support Engineer ed.turner@east.sun.com | + Sun Microsystems, Inc., Enterprise Services Ph 770 360-6466 + | 3655 North Point Parkway, Alpharetta, GA 30005 Fax 770 360-6460 | -+-+-===-+-+- -+-+-+-+-=====-+-+-+-+- -+-+-===-+-+- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Lifelike E8 Proto2K From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 98 08:47:07 -0400 Content-Length: 1617 Hey all, Somebody made a reference last week about the amount of Delrin type plastic used in the undecorated E8 unit. Was the pilot made of this material? Don't care about the grabs as I will replace those with metal anyway. Thanx SSGT York ========= It was I. And Yes the pilot is made of acetyl plastic and chips constantly :( It looks like an E6 pilot anyway and has an enormous gaping maw in the front -0 made to take 16in radius turns. I used the freight pilot and glued (with ACC and much frustration and patience) a wrapper over it to produce a much better looking passenger pilot. regards Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ____________________________________________________________ _________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Pullman Combine From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 98 09:13:51 -0400 Content-Length: 1549 Habk, Thjse cars were baggage club cars (with a barber shop) used on the LL and the Bway. They were painted Tuscan. I believe that after the 1938 streamlining of these trains, these cars were recalled by Pullman for conversion to other plans. But I'm not sure, they seem to have just disappeared. regards Andy Miller asmller@mitre.org ====================== Hello again... One more question... Were these heavyweight Pullman cars painted in Pullman Green or were they tuscan? I know some cars owned by Pullman were painted tuscan,but with the Pullman Lettering.This only happened on the Pennsy that i know of because of the amount of Pullman cars Pennsy used and the railroads own clout.Pennsy was a important customer for Pullman. Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:27:35 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] BP20 Shark Drives Content-Length: 2447 >What if...the Miracle Castings Passenger Shark turns out to be a winner... > >It is designed to fit on an Athearn PA mechanism. Jury is still out on >how good these trucks will do vs. prototype. But, considering the >options... I looked over several photos, including some very good "broadside" builders photos of the PA and BP20s. The trucks look identical - same springs, journals curves etc! This couldn't be a coincidence could it? It sure looks like Baldwin got those trucks from Alco (after all, baldwin wasn't in the business of mass producing 6 axle passenger diesels anyway...) The kit contains a complete frame, and drive shaft extensions designed to work with Athern's drive. Seems almost like a "drop in" conversion. With respect to the Centipede drive, the DD40 drive might be a great place to start, and then the kit could contain the Baldwin sideframes (as the DD40's would be all wrong) to add to the trucks. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary works in Braille. ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:54:40 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] unusual P70 question Content-Length: 2229 Hi all, I have an NJ Custom Brass P70 which has a clerestory roof, original windows, and and an interesting feature to one vestiblule...The side windows in the door are larger than normal and are single pane, and there are square windows in the end of the car! It would appear that this particular P70 was set up for train cab controls. I have a suspicion it was used in an early "push-me, pull-you" set up. Now my questions 1) Was it set up for cab controls? If not, why the windows? 2) When was it modified? 3) What number(s) was the car? 4) Where was it used? Copies of ANY photos of said car would be much appreciated! I have just finished painting the car and would like to decal it appropriately. Happy Rails, Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary works in Braille. ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:59:21 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Loco Number question Content-Length: 1960 Hi all, I think it would be interesting for those of us who model PRR to know what locos wore our membership numbers. Jerry Britton is a lucky dog, as he is 6110 or 6111 (i forget which), and therefore gets a prototype T1! I am 5733, which does not show up on a search of KC as a number used for any diesel (just missed the E7 and BP20 series!), and was not used on any electric. My question...Was the number 5733 EVER used on any PRR motive power? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary works in Braille. ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Lifelike E8 Proto2K Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:52:12 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 1074 On 15 Aug, ironhorse@sprintmail.com wrote: > I'd bet Life-Like is making the pilot in something on the line of ABS > plastic. It's not as brittle/fragile as styrene and can be painted. If > it were made from Delrin (R) or Celcon or some other engineering > plastic, it wouldn't hold paint worth a (you-know-what). AccuFlex/ModelFlex sticks pretty well to acetal plastics; unfortunately, they don't produce ready-mixed Tuscan. Anybody got a formula? Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:13:17 EDT Subject: [PRR] Craw/Clendon font Content-Length: 479 Hello all, Whom amonst you is working on developing a Craw-Clarendon font. I'd like to hgear how it's going. Tom V. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: chaslett@cse.l-3com.com Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:14:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] RailFest '98 Content-Length: 1173 Hello to Jerry and all: Yes, the Railfest advance ticket order forms are in the mail to previous Railfest attendees. To date, 10 Listers have expressed interest in attending and getting together for some of the activities. Since the majority have planned on being there Saturday, that will be PRR-Talk day, with the 1:30PM excursion serving as the official group train ride around the Curve and through the Tunnels. If there is anyone else on the list planning to attend that would like to participate with the group on the excursion, shop tour, and / or dinner Saturday evening, please contact me DIRECTLY if you haven't already done so at: chaslett@cse.L-3com.com (Note - the address for me in Jerry's post may no longer work, so please use the one above.) Carl Haslett ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:37:05 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Railfan Content-Length: 586 ***HAHHAHA...good one...although, idiot is spelled with two'i' s...hahhaha And my best pal ever did name a cat found at CNJ Raritan Engine Terminal "Chessie"...since we thought that they would take over our little CNJ. Bill** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Liberty Limited cars,Walthers and Post WWII Date: Mon, 17 Aug 98 11:49:44 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1877 On 8/16/98 9:54 PM, BPX29@aol.com (BPX29@aol.com) wrote: >That Walther's car you spoke of was a combine? I don't have the Walthers >passenger car plan book in front of me, but it seems that car was a baggage- >club type? Seems that would have become obsolete on a high roller like the >Liberty Ltd after WWII, but I wonder if it might have been assigned to a >lesser train, at least south of harrisburg. Some of the connecting trains >running Harrisburg-Baltimore-Washington were pretty respectable(they had to >be, to compete with the B&O) but most of the lounge/sleeper service seemed to >be provided by 5 and 6 DB-lounges by the early 50's. Still, there may have >been a window of years in the late fourties when these could have run. >(Wish I >woulda bought that 1948 Guide I had in my hands a few years ago, but man the >guy sellin' it was a stiff!) In the 1948-49 replacement of equipment, the Liberty Limited received all new equipment EXCEPT that it continued to run one HW 14 section for deadheading crew members. Other than that, it was all new equipment after 1948. Even switched power to an ABA set of E7's once they were available. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Photos of new Bowser PRR cars are up Date: Mon, 17 Aug 98 12:42:08 -0400 From: Rob Schoenberg Content-Length: 450 Lettering (unnumbered, though) and all: http://www.bowser-trains.com/New%20HO.htm Rob ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:24:16 EDT Subject: [PRR] Congressional Content-Length: 893 I just received my new Congressional car set of 18. Can anyone tell me if their were any rules for placement of the cars. Lunch Counter/Tavern Car relative to the Dining Car? Dining Car relative to Kitchen/Bar Lounge Car (Kitchen or Bar Lounge next to the Dining Car)? Conference Parlor Car? Four Chair/Lounge Cars? Five Parlor/Drawing Room Cars? Would anyone have knowledge if Three brass GG1's would pull the 18 cars on 1.5% grade? Has any one checked out the KD coupler # yet? Thanks a lot, Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:27:40 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] Railfan Content-Length: 545 Rich, Tried Infoseek and came up with a web page named "The Idiot Railfan." Not what you described, but interesting: http://www.javanet.com/~railfan/idiotrf.html Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:32:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] RailFest 98 Excursion Consist Content-Length: 1020 > The excursion train at RailFest this year WILL NOT be ex-PRR equipment > like last year. Here's the news, from a direct source: > > >While we will have MARC equipment this year it does not > >appear that the consist will be MARC I (ex-PRR cars). There are two > >competing > >events in Maryland (Cumberland & Brunswick) and those sponsors have requested > >the MARC I equipment. For sound political reasons MARC officials have > >elected > >to send the MARC I's to those trips. We will likely use MARC II (Sumitoma) > >cars. So who knows if these cars have the "window at every other seat" problem like the Marc I's did? -D ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:36:28 -0500 From: bobp@tsc.com (Bob Poortinga) Subject: Re: [PRR] crestline roundhouse Content-Length: 956 mxb13@psu.edu (Michael Bezilla) inquires: > Does anyone know the status of the PRR roundhouse at Crestline, Ohio? It is > still standing, I understand, but is crumbling fast & the turntable pit is > filled with water. When did it last see service? I was there in June '97. Walked all around the place and took some photos, both inside and out. If there is any interest, I'll scan them and post them on my web page. BTW, I also have some shots of the former PRR station in Hobart, IN. Let me know if interested. -- Bob Poortinga (mailto:bobp@tsc.com) Bloomington, Indiana USA ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:44:09 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] Railfan Content-Length: 535 Going further on the Idiot Railfan page, clicking on "Not Sure if you're an idiot Railfan? READ THIS," produces: http://www.javanet.com/~railfan/you_know.html Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:55:31 -0400 From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: Re: [PRR] BP20 Shark Drives Content-Length: 3511 I'll probably get fried on this one, but - The A-1-A truck under the PA and PB20 was made by GSC - General Steel Castings, a one time Baldwin subsidiary. I need to unpack some books, but the book title is ( I think this is the correct title ) "The Diesels that Baldwin Built " Kalmbach was the Publisher. I checked their current list and it is not on it. I think the C type ( three motor trucks ) was also a GSC product. Of course I could be all wrong too. I miss my books. The book had a blue jacket and a picture of a baby face Centipede on the front. cos Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote: > >What if...the Miracle Castings Passenger Shark turns out to be a winner... > > > >It is designed to fit on an Athearn PA mechanism. Jury is still out on > >how good these trucks will do vs. prototype. But, considering the > >options... > > I looked over several photos, including some very good "broadside" builders > photos of the PA and BP20s. The trucks look identical - same springs, > journals curves etc! This couldn't be a coincidence could it? It sure > looks like Baldwin got those trucks from Alco (after all, baldwin wasn't in > the business of mass producing 6 axle passenger diesels anyway...) > > The kit contains a complete frame, and drive shaft extensions designed to > work with Athern's drive. Seems almost like a "drop in" conversion. > > With respect to the Centipede drive, the DD40 drive might be a great place > to start, and then the kit could contain the Baldwin sideframes (as the > DD40's would be all wrong) to add to the trucks. > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and > Director, Nucleic Acid Services > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > ******************************************************************************** > If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup > trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number > of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great > literary works in Braille. > ******************************************************************************** > Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com > _ _ > / \ / \ > ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ > |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 21:17:50 -0400 From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: Re: [PRR] BP20 Shark Drives Content-Length: 2956 I forgot all about this - I must be getting old or something. Check out the first issue of Pennsy Journal Winter, 1981. Exterior views of both A and B units. Interior equipment layouts. Single small strip, 5 strip and wide single letter, striping and painting guides. The as delivered scheme is in Rails Norhteast (sorry mine are all packed), don't know which issue. cos Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote: > >What if...the Miracle Castings Passenger Shark turns out to be a winner... > > > >It is designed to fit on an Athearn PA mechanism. Jury is still out on > >how good these trucks will do vs. prototype. But, considering the > >options... > > I looked over several photos, including some very good "broadside" builders > photos of the PA and BP20s. The trucks look identical - same springs, > journals curves etc! This couldn't be a coincidence could it? It sure > looks like Baldwin got those trucks from Alco (after all, baldwin wasn't in > the business of mass producing 6 axle passenger diesels anyway...) > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and > Director, Nucleic Acid Services > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > ******************************************************************************** > If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup > trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number > of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great > literary works in Braille. > ******************************************************************************** > Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com > _ _ > / \ / \ > ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ > |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 21:42:41 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pullman Combine Content-Length: 914 In a message dated 8/17/98 5:47:51 PM CST, asmiller@mail11.mitre.org writes: > > Thjse cars were baggage club cars (with a barber shop) used on the LL and > the > Bway. They were painted Tuscan. I believe that after the 1938 > streamlining > of these trains, these cars were recalled by Pullman for conversion to other > plans. But I'm not sure, they seem to have just disappeared. > I dont know about the PRR cars, but some of the cars used on the NYC ended up as baggage dorms on the SAL and were still around in the mid 60's. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:18:12 -0400 From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: Re: [PRR] Loco Number question Content-Length: 2687 Hey Bruce, Check out Pennsy Power, page 117. "PRR road numbers were scattered, with one solid block of fifty numbers running No 5700-5749, " Pictures of 5704, 06, 07, 13, 25, 29, 36, 40 and 42 are in Pennsy Power I, II & III. Hope this helps. cos Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote: > Hi all, > > I think it would be interesting for those of us who model PRR to know what > locos wore our membership numbers. Jerry Britton is a lucky dog, as he is > 6110 or 6111 (i forget which), and therefore gets a prototype T1! > > I am 5733, which does not show up on a search of KC as a number used for > any diesel (just missed the E7 and BP20 series!), and was not used on any > electric. My question...Was the number 5733 EVER used on any PRR motive > power? > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and > Director, Nucleic Acid Services > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > ******************************************************************************** > If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup > trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number > of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great > literary works in Braille. > ******************************************************************************** > Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com > _ _ > / \ / \ > ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ > |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:26:00 EDT Subject: [PRR] Liberty Limited/ Unusual P70 Content-Length: 1646 Jerry, Bruce & folks, I'm always glad to see discussion of things passenger on the list. I'm not sure I'm glad to see the 14-section topic again, but let me enter my own observation. It doesn't appear to me that the Liberty Ltd was carrying a single 14-section car for crew use. That seems to have two things going against it. For one, a car not for the use of passengers wouldn't have been listed in the public timetable, any more than a B60 or X29 would have. I've got a summer, 1953 east-west timetable that specificlly mentions "roomy berths", and no other cars listed have section accomodations, other than the 14-section. And grabbing a glance at the Sep, 1952 Guide, the Liberty actually listed two of these cars. That would be some beaucoup dorm space...56 beds! I realize there was an article stating these cars to be strictly dorm service, but Pennsy's own timetable says otherwise. Guess that's my take on it. Bruce, as regards that P70, isn't there a picture of a car in Camden-Pemberton service in one of the Morning Sun books that seems similar to what you've described? Don't recall which book (Painting Guide maybe?), but the car had black and white safety stripes on the "cab" end. Perhaps another fan has a more definite idea. Regards, Barry Peltier ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 21:46:06 -0500 From: Ben Kroger Subject: [PRR] PRR fonts Content-Length: 506 Does anybody have the correct fonts used to letter Pennsy equipment? I'm particulalrly looking for the correct Futura font. Regards, Ben Kroger ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 23:08:32 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Loco Number question Content-Length: 389 Hi 5733 was a G5s Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 00:24:43 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] unusual P70 question Content-Length: 1257 In a message dated 98-08-17 20:38:40 EDT, Bruce Smith writes: << have an NJ Custom Brass P70 which has a clerestory roof, original windows, and and an interesting feature to one vestiblule...The side windows in the door are larger than normal and are single pane, and there are square windows in the end of the car! It would appear that this particular P70 was set up for train cab controls. I have a suspicion it was used in an early "push-me, pull-you" set up >> Actually, it sounds like you have a P70 coach as built in 1907. See page 47 of Pennsylvania Railroad Heavyweight Passenger Equipment Plan and Photo Book, NJ International, Inc., 77 West Nicholai St., Hicksville, NY 11801, copyright 1984. Photos and plan. Long list of numbers: 820-877, 896-1099, 1204-1287, 1289-1649, etc., etc. plus 3xxx, 7xxx, 8xxx, 9xxx series. Regards, Bob Zoeller Fox Point, WI ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Loco Number question Date: Tue, 18 Aug 98 06:29:59 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 922 On 8/17/98 9:59 AM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: >I am 5733, which does not show up on a search of KC as a number used for The steam roster will come, eventually...and you just missed on baggage cars! #5730 was a R60 Refridgerator Express #5737 was a B60 Baggage Express According to the 1954 roster. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Liberty Limited/ Unusual P70 Date: Tue, 18 Aug 98 06:35:48 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 2052 On 8/17/98 10:26 PM, BPX29@aol.com (BPX29@aol.com) wrote: >I'm always glad to see discussion of things passenger on the list. I'm not >sure I'm glad to see the 14-section topic again, but let me enter my own >observation. It doesn't appear to me that the Liberty Ltd was carrying a >single 14-section car for crew use. That seems to have two things going >against it. For one, a car not for the use of passengers wouldn't have been >listed in the public timetable, any more than a B60 or X29 would have. I've >got a summer, 1953 east-west timetable that specificlly mentions "roomy >berths", and no other cars listed have section accomodations, other than the >14-section. And grabbing a glance at the Sep, 1952 Guide, the Liberty >actually >listed two of these cars. That would be some beaucoup dorm space...56 beds! I >realize there was an article stating these cars to be strictly dorm service, >but Pennsy's own timetable says otherwise. Guess that's my take on it. In a Rails Northeast article on the subject, it was a PRR employee that stated something to the effect of "it was listed as a revenue car on the timetable, but that car never made a dog gone dime. It was used by deadheading crews". While Rails Northeast may not be the ultimate authority, it was presented as a quotation and offers at least a plausible explanation as to why one heavyweight car might have been used in a train wholly refitted with lightweights in the later 40s. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 07:18:15 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Photos of new Bowser PRR cars are up Content-Length: 1106 Jerry, Will you be getting the new Bowser cars to sell? Randy SPF in the Fox Cities Rob Schoenberg on 08/17/98 11:42:08 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com cc: (bcc: Randy Williamson/Marathon) Subject: [PRR] Photos of new Bowser PRR cars are up Lettering (unnumbered, though) and all: http://www.bowser-trains.com/New%20HO.htm Rob ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:30:41 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Liberty Limited cars,Walthers and Post WWII Content-Length: 1154 In a message dated 98-08-18 00:30:27 EDT, Jerry writes: << In the 1948-49 replacement of equipment, the Liberty Limited received all new equipment EXCEPT that it continued to run one HW 14 section for deadheading crew members. Other than that, it was all new equipment after 1948. Even switched power to an ABA set of E7's once they were available. >> The 1939 outfitting with the prewar FOM lightweight cars included some heavyweights (probably some streamstyled), but headend was an R50 and PB70 followed by a P82. The Pullman baggage-club cars were no longer listed by 1940. I agree with Andy Miller that these cars seemed to have disappeared and possibly were converted to another configuration. Seems like a good question for the passenger car talk list. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:34:23 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] BP20 Shark Drives Content-Length: 747 In a message dated 98-08-18 03:26:07 EDT, cos writes: << one time Baldwin subsidiary. I need to unpack some books, but the book title is ( I think this is the correct title ) "The Diesels that Baldwin Built " Kalmbach was the Publisher. I checked their current list and it is not on i >> Still fairly common on some hobby dealer shelves and at swap meets. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:46:02 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Liberty Limited/ Unusual P70 Content-Length: 895 In a message dated 98-08-18 04:30:45 EDT, Barry Peltier writes: << It doesn't appear to me that the Liberty Ltd was carrying a single 14-section car for crew use >> I too don't want to totally revisit the topic, but I like theprevious explanation that private rooms were not approved for government employees, so an open section car was included on (say) the Liberty Limited and the General. I will post the question to the passenger car chat list (with one on the baggage club cars) to satisfy my curiosity. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:51:48 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Loco Number question Content-Length: 1106 Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote: < I think it would be interesting for those of us who model PRR to know what locos wore our membership numbers. Jerry Britton is a lucky dog, as he is 6110 or 6111 (i forget which), and therefore gets a prototype T1! I am 5733, which does not show up on a search of KC as a number used for any diesel (just missed the E7 and BP20 series!), and was not used on any electric. My question...Was the number 5733 EVER used on any PRR motive power? > I thought Jerry or someone on the list bought the book with the alltime numbering list of PRR steam locos. I never buy it because it isn't high on the list of my priorities to add to my movers boxes of "stuff". Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 09:36:53 EDT Subject: [PRR] Trucks and Traction Motors for PA's and BP20's Content-Length: 3050 In a message dated 8/17/98 8:03:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, smithbf@mail.auburn.edu writes: > I looked over several photos, including some very good "broadside" builders > photos of the PA and BP20s. The trucks look identical - same springs, > journals curves etc! This couldn't be a coincidence could it? It sure > looks like Baldwin got those trucks from Alco (after all, baldwin wasn't in > the business of mass producing 6 axle passenger diesels anyway...) There's a mystery here. At this point, I have no idea who the vendor for PA and BP20 trucks was, but I'm sure I remember that Alco used GE traction motors exclusively, and that Baldwin used Westinghouse traction motors exclusively. The significance of this is that the Westinghouse traction motor was bigger than the GE. I know that on freight truck applications, the truck for Westinghouse motors had to have a longer wheelbase to make room for the larger motor cases. Maybe the PA-type passenger truck, with a long wheelbase for high speed and having only 2 traction motors, had enough room for either design of motor. BTW - EMD traction motors were evolved from the GE design, so were the same size. BTW2 - I seriously doubt anybody but maybe Baldwin was set up to cast their own trucks. Diesel loco trucks were usually a vendor item. BTW3 - Fairbanks Morse started with Westinghouse, and I believe Westinghouse quit the railroad electrical transmission business early enough FM then had to go to GE. A nightmare according to an electrical engineer friend who was at Beloit then, but at least the smaller motors would fit in the big holes in the trucks. BTW4 - Don't ever forget that at one time the Pennsy looked only to Westinghouse for electrical equipment. GE (a New York company and an NYC online customer) could hardly sell the PRR anything until the government, advancing monies for Pennsy's mainline electrification during the Depression, insisted the business be split between GE and Westinghouse. Thus appeared GG-1's with GE-built electrical equipment. And the Westinghouse hold on the Pennsy was never the same... Hope I remembered all the above correctly. None of the above detracts from the anticipation we all feel of getting a good BP20 model. I can't even use it (1968, remember?), but I'm going to enjoy it on a dozen other layouts in Louisville and Cincinnati. Til the next train out, Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) Operating the Panhandle Route And Remembering PRR Lines West ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 09:47:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Bej Subject: [PRR] PRR in south Jersey (fwd) Content-Length: 4106 When I was in south Jersey on vacation a couple of weeks ago, I attempted some RR achaeology. Primarily, I tried to find the PRR's version of Wildwood Junction. Y'all may remember that there were 2 such creatures: the PRR one (WJ&S) and the Reading one. The PRR side got abandoned when PRSL was created, in the 30s or thereabouts. As one goes west on Rio Grande Ave. (NJ 47) out of Wildwood, one crosses US 9, soon thereafter one crosses the ex-RDG line, now active from Cold Spring to Cape May Court House. About 0.2 mile west one comes to Railroad Avenue - a dinosaur of a name to be sure - and a north-south RoW sporting a pole line. This is the former PRR branch to Cape May. One can ride along much of this line, but the going on a bicycle is tough, owing to the substantial amounts of sand. They (the locals; the Cape May line guys) say that "Wildwood Jct. is all still in", but they mean the RDG version. The PRR version is much harder to find. Here's my best attempt - those of you who are local, please corroborate at your leisure. At some point near where I believe the PRR Wildwood Jct to have been is a N-S road called Shunpike Rd. (Sorry, I don't now recall what it hooks into at its southern end.) Off this road, westbound, goes Oyster Rd. This turns a 90 deg corner to the north and becomes Honeysuckle Rd. This then turns a 90 deg corner to the west and becomes Johnston Rd. Along Honeysuckle, on its eastern side, the same RoW and same pole line are seen. Partway, about 1/3, from Oyster to Johnston, the field to the east widens, and the trees bordering it appear to be basically in a triangle form. I suspect this was the location of the wye. It should be fairly easy to measure this location - in theory - relative to the existing RDG plant and comparing with the relevant maps in the _Keystone_ article. However, finding abandoned portions of the latter _from which one can measure distances_ is not as easy as it sounds. I rode from Shunpike over to US 9, trying to find the location where the PRR Wildwood branch would have crossed that road. There is no obvious location. The whole area is terribly flat, and to make matters worse, has been regraded for the construction of the Garden State Parkway. My best estimate of where the PRR would have crossed US 9 is near what is now a feed store; this is in the area where US 9 and the GSP are immediately parallel with each other. Finding the RDG Wildwood branch was not easy, either, as I alluded to above. A pole line crosses US 9/GSP at right angles, is heavily wooded, and was confirmed by a local as being the place where he, as a child, would walk with his father out to the railroad trestle to go crabbing. Here were the distances as measured on my bike odometer: Odometer(km) Relative distance(mi) Feed Store 84.70 0.0 US 9 veers west 85.39 0.43 US 9 crosses NJ 147 86.40 1.05 US 9 crosses Wiley St 87.40 1.67 Pole line (=RDG Wwd Br) 88.44 2.31 The map in the Summer 1990 _Keystone_ suggests that the PRR Wildwood Jct. and the RDG Wildwood Jct. are about 2 miles apart. I am judging this by estimating the distance from BURLEIGH tower to the RDG Wildwood Jct. The PRR, but not RDG, milepost for BURLEIGH is given. Thus, I estimated based on the distance from Anglesea to Wildwood block station. Does anyone have PRSL ETTs of that era to confirm this estimate, or to provide the exact BURLEIGH--WILDWOOD JCT. distance on the ACRR/RDG? Anyway, the approximate 2 miles from the map would correspond reasonably with my bicycle-based measurements. -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 11:58:34 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] unusual P70 question Content-Length: 1599 Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote: > > I have an NJ Custom Brass P70 which has a clerestory roof, original > windows, and and an interesting feature to one vestiblule...The side > windows in the door are larger than normal and are single pane, and there > are square windows in the end of the car! It would appear that this > particular P70 was set up for train cab controls. I have a suspicion it > was used in an early "push-me, pull-you" set up. Now my questions > > 1) Was it set up for cab controls? If not, why the windows? > 2) When was it modified? > 3) What number(s) was the car? > 4) Where was it used? > Bruce, Adding to Bob Zoeller's answer, which was "Actually, it sounds like you have a P70 coach as built in 1907. See page 47 of Pennsylvania Railroad Heavyweight Passenger Equipment Plan and Photo Book, NJ International, Inc., 77 West Nicholai St., Hicksville, NY 11801, copyright 1984..." Model Railroader Magazine published plans and photos in August, 1963. A good photo of coach 8055 as you described it (windows) is credited to Arthur Dubin. More info might show up in one of his books. MR describes their plans as "...based on one of the early varieties." Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:07:23 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Loco Number question Content-Length: 1315 In a message dated 8/18/98 10:25:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bobspf@aol.com writes: << I thought Jerry or someone on the list bought the book with the alltime numbering list of PRR steam locos. I never buy it because it isn't high on the list of my priorities to add to my movers boxes of "stuff". >> The PRR renumbered steam locomotives so often particularly prior to the merge of all the lines into the one corporate umbrella that it is impossible to have a definitive list of all steam locomotive numbers. Such an undertaking would necessitate coordinating road numbers, construction numbers and serial numbers for every locomotive built. When locomotives were transferred from one division to another they were frequently renumbered. This was especially true when moving from Lines East to Lines West or vice versa. The only true consistent identifying number is the construction/serial number of each locomotive. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] unusual P70 question Date: Tue, 18 Aug 98 13:32:08 -0400 From: Rob Schoenberg Content-Length: 1976 There's a photo of an early PRR car with end windows in the June 1928 issue of "Information" put out by the PRR. It shows one of the ends with the large windows. Not sure what the other end of the car had though. The car was used in fire tests... I have the issue scanned and online. The car in question is on page 10 at the link below..... http://prr.railfan.net/documents/info-6-28/Page10.html Rob > I have an NJ Custom Brass P70 which has a clerestory roof, original > windows, and and an interesting feature to one vestiblule...The side > windows in the door are larger than normal and are single pane, and there > are square windows in the end of the car! It would appear that this > particular P70 was set up for train cab controls. I have a suspicion it > was used in an early "push-me, pull-you" set up. Now my questions > > 1) Was it set up for cab controls? If not, why the windows? > 2) When was it modified? > 3) What number(s) was the car? > 4) Where was it used? > Bruce, Adding to Bob Zoeller's answer, which was "Actually, it sounds like you have a P70 coach as built in 1907. See page 47 of Pennsylvania Railroad Heavyweight Passenger Equipment Plan and Photo Book, NJ International, Inc., 77 West Nicholai St., Hicksville, NY 11801, copyright 1984..." Model Railroader Magazine published plans and photos in August, 1963. A good photo of coach 8055 as you described it (windows) is credited to Arthur Dubin. More info might show up in one of his books. MR describes their plans as "...based on one of the early varieties." Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:15:05 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] unusual P70 question Content-Length: 1895 >There's a photo of an early PRR car with end windows in the June 1928 issue >of "Information" put out by the PRR. It shows one of the ends with the >large windows. Rob, That's the car - thanks! So, it is an "early" P70 coach. Clearly these windows must have been for purposes other than train control, and they don't seem to have lasted too long. Thanks to everyone for their help. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary works in Braille. ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Liberty Limited cars,Walthers and Post WWII Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:30:22 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 534 On 18 Aug, Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > Seems like a good question for the passenger car talk list. Is it my imagination, or has the passenger car list gone extinct? Dennis ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:36:53 EDT Subject: [PRR] Baggage Club Cars Content-Length: 1336 1. Baggage Buffet Club Smoking Cars with barber shop blt in '23 for the PRR were rebuilt into bedroom lg cars in the Dover series. One of these Dover series cars stilloperates and is owned by the NRHS chapter in Washington DC. I think this might have been blt for the NYC though. 2. Many if not all PRR coaches in the 1200 series are ex Bag Buff Club Smoking cars. Sold to the PRR in '42 and converted to coaches at a date after that or right away. I dont know. 3. Also many if not all PRR coaches in the 5100 series are ex BBCSC cars sold to the PRR in '42. This info is from Wayners Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars 1985. This was a quick glance thru the book and I was suprised to see so many slprs that were converted to coaches on the PRR. Also listed were the PRR MOW numbers of cars converted which makes me wonder if anyone has ever done a master list of the ex slprs in work train service. Dick Brundage Tulsa OK bnsftulsa@aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 16:26:20 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Liberty Limited cars,Walthers and Post WWII Content-Length: 666 In a message dated 98-08-18 14:29:48 EDT, Dennis writes: << Is it my imagination, or has the passenger car list gone extinct? >> Seems active to me. Last message besides my own that I received and kept was August 17. All the lists have been quiet the last three weeks in my opinion. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 16:35:45 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Baggage Club Cars Content-Length: 754 In a message dated 98-08-18 15:43:55 EDT, Dick Brundage writes: << lso listed were the PRR MOW numbers of cars converted which makes me wonder if anyone has ever done a master list of the ex slprs in work train service. >> Bob Reid had a list (not sure how complete) on pages 50-51 of Pennsy Journal, Summer, 1983, Vol III No. 3 (Issue 11). Earliest conversion was 6/58. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:40:48 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] BP20 Shark Drives From: padraice@juno.com (Patrick M Egan) Content-Length: 4394 Diesels From Eddystone. Pat Egan (no web access) On Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:55:31 -0400 "Wayne S. Betty" writes: >I'll probably get fried on this one, but - >The A-1-A truck under the PA and PB20 was made by GSC - General Steel >Castings, a >one time Baldwin subsidiary. I need to unpack some books, but the >book title is ( >I think this is the correct title ) "The Diesels that Baldwin Built " >Kalmbach was >the Publisher. I checked their current list and it is not on it. I >think the C >type ( three motor trucks ) was also a GSC product. >Of course I could be all wrong too. I miss my books. The book had a >blue jacket >and a picture of a baby face Centipede on the front. > >cos > > >Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote: > >> >What if...the Miracle Castings Passenger Shark turns out to be a >winner... >> > >> >It is designed to fit on an Athearn PA mechanism. Jury is still out >on >> >how good these trucks will do vs. prototype. But, considering the >> >options... >> >> I looked over several photos, including some very good "broadside" >builders >> photos of the PA and BP20s. The trucks look identical - same >springs, >> journals curves etc! This couldn't be a coincidence could it? It >sure >> looks like Baldwin got those trucks from Alco (after all, baldwin >wasn't in >> the business of mass producing 6 axle passenger diesels anyway...) >> >> The kit contains a complete frame, and drive shaft extensions >designed to >> work with Athern's drive. Seems almost like a "drop in" conversion. >> >> With respect to the Centipede drive, the DD40 drive might be a great >place >> to start, and then the kit could contain the Baldwin sideframes (as >the >> DD40's would be all wrong) to add to the trucks. >> >> Happy Rails >> Bruce >> >> Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. >> Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and >> Director, Nucleic Acid Services >> Scott-Ritchey Research Center >> 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) >> http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ >> >******************************************************************************** >> If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of >pickup >> trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite >number >> of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great >> literary works in Braille. >> >******************************************************************************** >> Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! >http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com >> _ _ >> / \ / \ >> ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ >> |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ >| >> | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | >||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| >> >|/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| >> | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Join our SPF database at >http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >> "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR in south Jersey (fwd) From: ptrmgtsvc@juno.com (Michael E. Allen) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 01:17:25 EDT Content-Length: 5422 Mark et alia, While it has been a few [17?] since I actually had to find those rights of way your numbers sound right. As of April 97 the signal masts for the Reading side of the diamond were standing and the row was visible to either side of the CSML. I would have started my measurements from the diamond. MEA ______________________________ PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY PTRMgtSvc@Juno.com Management Services Telephone 609-683-0356 On Tue, 18 Aug 1998 09:47:07 -0400 (EDT) Mark Bej writes: > > >When I was in south Jersey on vacation a couple of weeks ago, I >attempted >some RR achaeology. Primarily, I tried to find the PRR's version of >Wildwood Junction. Y'all may remember that there were 2 such >creatures: >the PRR one (WJ&S) and the Reading one. The PRR side got abandoned >when >PRSL was created, in the 30s or thereabouts. > >As one goes west on Rio Grande Ave. (NJ 47) out of Wildwood, one >crosses >US 9, soon thereafter one crosses the ex-RDG line, now active from >Cold Spring to Cape May Court House. About 0.2 mile west one comes to >Railroad Avenue - a dinosaur of a name to be sure - and a north-south >RoW sporting a pole line. This is the former PRR branch to Cape May. > >One can ride along much of this line, but the going on a bicycle is >tough, owing to the substantial amounts of sand. They (the locals; >the Cape May line guys) say that "Wildwood Jct. is all still in", but >they mean the RDG version. The PRR version is much harder to find. > >Here's my best attempt - those of you who are local, please >corroborate >at your leisure. > >At some point near where I believe the PRR Wildwood Jct to have been >is >a N-S road called Shunpike Rd. (Sorry, I don't now recall what it >hooks >into at its southern end.) Off this road, westbound, goes Oyster Rd. >This turns a 90 deg corner to the north and becomes Honeysuckle Rd. >This then turns a 90 deg corner to the west and becomes Johnston Rd. >Along Honeysuckle, on its eastern side, the same RoW and same pole >line >are seen. Partway, about 1/3, from Oyster to Johnston, the field to >the >east widens, and the trees bordering it appear to be basically in a >triangle form. I suspect this was the location of the wye. > >It should be fairly easy to measure this location - in theory - >relative >to the existing RDG plant and comparing with the relevant maps in the >_Keystone_ article. However, finding abandoned portions of the latter >_from which one can measure distances_ is not as easy as it sounds. > >I rode from Shunpike over to US 9, trying to find the location where >the >PRR Wildwood branch would have crossed that road. There is no obvious >location. The whole area is terribly flat, and to make matters worse, >has been regraded for the construction of the Garden State Parkway. >My best estimate of where the PRR would have crossed US 9 is near what >is now a feed store; this is in the area where US 9 and the GSP are >immediately parallel with each other. Finding the RDG Wildwood branch >was not easy, either, as I alluded to above. A pole line crosses US >9/GSP >at right angles, is heavily wooded, and was confirmed by a local as >being >the place where he, as a child, would walk with his father out to the >railroad trestle to go crabbing. > >Here were the distances as measured on my bike odometer: > > Odometer(km) Relative distance(mi) >Feed Store 84.70 0.0 >US 9 veers west 85.39 0.43 >US 9 crosses NJ 147 86.40 1.05 >US 9 crosses Wiley St 87.40 1.67 >Pole line (=RDG Wwd Br) 88.44 2.31 > >The map in the Summer 1990 _Keystone_ suggests that the PRR Wildwood >Jct. >and the RDG Wildwood Jct. are about 2 miles apart. I am judging this >by estimating the distance from BURLEIGH tower to the RDG Wildwood >Jct. >The PRR, but not RDG, milepost for BURLEIGH is given. Thus, I >estimated >based on the distance from Anglesea to Wildwood block station. Does >anyone have PRSL ETTs of that era to confirm this estimate, or to >provide >the exact BURLEIGH--WILDWOOD JCT. distance on the ACRR/RDG? Anyway, >the >approximate 2 miles from the map would correspond reasonably with my >bicycle-based measurements. > >-- >Mark > > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] unusual P70 question From: ptrmgtsvc@juno.com (Michael E. Allen) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 01:17:25 EDT Content-Length: 4417 The closest thing to a Push-Pull in regular service using P70s was the "Back-Up" train set used to cover the Camden and Pemberton schedules in the mid/late-60s. This was not a true Push-Pull as the two cars were not train lined and did not have controls other than brake and horn valves. Each car had a headlight, a horn, an end door, and yellow scare strips added to one end. When patronage dropped to the point where two cars were superfluous, one of the cars was set up with the equipment on both ends and the other was returned to the general pool. The conductor or a trainman would ride in the end door blowing the whistle and throwing the train int emergency as appropriate. The engineer and fireman stayed in the engine cab. This train probably had the worst deadhead to revenue milage ratio in the entire system. It was serviced at night at the Pavonia engine house and in the morning would deadhead in reverse to Pemberton [engine on the camden end], make a revenue run to Camden, dead head back out as far as Moorestown, and then make another revenue run to Camden. The engine would then be run around the train so that it was on the Pemberton end and the process would be repeated in reverse in the evening. MEA ______________________________ PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY PTRMgtSvc@Juno.com Management Services Telephone 609-683-0356 On Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:54:40 -0500 "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." writes: >Hi all, > >I have an NJ Custom Brass P70 which has a clerestory roof, original >windows, and and an interesting feature to one vestiblule...The side >windows in the door are larger than normal and are single pane, and >there >are square windows in the end of the car! It would appear that this >particular P70 was set up for train cab controls. I have a suspicion >it >was used in an early "push-me, pull-you" set up. Now my questions > >1) Was it set up for cab controls? If not, why the windows? >2) When was it modified? >3) What number(s) was the car? >4) Where was it used? > >Copies of ANY photos of said car would be much appreciated! I have >just >finished painting the car and would like to decal it appropriately. > >Happy Rails, >Bruce > >Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. >Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and >Director, Nucleic Acid Services >Scott-Ritchey Research Center >334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) >http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ >******************************************************************************** >If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of >pickup >trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number >of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great >literary works in Braille. >******************************************************************************** >Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! >http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com > _ _ > / \ / \ > ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ > |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:14:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR in south Jersey (fwd) Content-Length: 1564 On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Michael E. Allen wrote: > Mark et alia, > > While it has been a few [17?] since I actually had to find those rights > of way your numbers sound right. As of April 97 the signal masts for the > Reading side of the diamond were standing and the row was visible to > either side of the CSML. I would have started my measurements from the > diamond. > > MEA Actually, I should have looked earlier in the Cape May article by the same author. That issue gives the PRR Cape May line mileposts, which gives the distance at 2 point some decimal (?2.3) miles. Sorry, I looked at it at home last night and did not write it down. It strongly implies that the field I saw was, in fact, the old wye. There is a dirt road that proceeds east from that field to Shunpike Rd - probably the old Wildwood Branch. The owners of the house across the street -- clearly of newer vintage than the 1930s abandonment of the PRR side of the Cape May line -- were quite surprised to find out that a RoW quite probably wended its way through their front yard. No one, even their kids, seemed to notice anything resembling an old RR RoW in the woods behind the houses. -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:16:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Bej Subject: [PRR] New uses for PRR signal parts Content-Length: 803 Another observation when I was in south Jersey: the crossing flashers on the Cape May Seashore Lines (if I have the name right) RoW have PRR position-light lamps oriented at the railroad. A RR employee told me these were taken from PRR signals on the Atlantic City line when that line was resignalled. Y'all might guess that they are used to allow the train crew to know that the crossing flashers are, indeed, working. -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:17:32 EDT Subject: [PRR] Passenger car list Content-Length: 579 Since four people so far have asked how to subscribe to the above list, foloowing are instructions: Send to pcl-request@railnet.nshore.org a nearly empty email with only one word in the subject: SUBSCRIBE Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:24:13 EDT Subject: [PRR] Baggage-club cars Content-Length: 2566 For what it is worth (not all referencing PRR cars), following are three responses to my query about above on the passenger car list. The comments about the converstion to Dover series bedroom-buffet-parlor cars might be of most interest: <> <> <> Bob Zoeller Fox Point, WI ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 19:44:39 +0100 From: "John H. Wright" Subject: Re: [PRR] unusual P70 question Content-Length: 1756 In message <199808181732.NAA02992@curly.services.gatefield.com>, Rob Schoenberg writes >There's a photo of an early PRR car with end windows in the June 1928 issue >of "Information" put out by the PRR. It shows one of the ends with the large >windows. >Not sure what the other end of the car had though. The car was used in fire >tests... >I have the issue scanned and online. The car in question is on page 10 at the >link >below..... I doubt there's much of a connection, but there was a vogue for putting end windows in corridor stock in this country around the time in question (c.1910). The North Eastern Railway, for instance, had a number of corridor coaches with end windows in the vestibules, running in its Newcastle to Liverpool consists. The practice came to an end and the windows were taken out due, it is said, to complaints from nervous old ladies (probably of both sexes:-) that they were frightened by seeing the corridor connections bouncing around. Regards, -- John H. Wright Washington Tyne & Wear England Visit the Newcastle & District Model Railway Society's web site at: http://www.jhwright.demon.co.uk/index.htm Descriptions and views of our layouts in: Z, N, HO (USA), HO (Continental), OO, P4, O Gauge and On16.5 Plus members' layouts and details of our exhibitions, news and events. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 14:56:35 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Fwd: TNFH Philatelic Dept: CR Content-Length: 1936 What about the Pennsy? ___________________________________________________________________________ __ WASHINGTON -- The U.S. Postal Service used a stamp dedication ceremony Tuesday to honor Conrail Inc., just days before the rail company gets new owners that want to dissolve it. Allen Kane, the Postal Service's chief marketing officer, said Conrail has been an important partner in transporting mail between hundreds of cities in the Northeast and the Midwest. "Each time, Conrail has consistently measured up to our high transportation standards," Mr. Kane said in prepared remarks. "Conrail's focus on quality operations, customer service and innovative systems and services that satisfy customers' needs is virtually unmatched." Federal rail regulators last month approved a $10 billion plan to carve up Conrail routes and end 22 years of a congressionally created rail monopoly in the Northeast. On Saturday, CSX Corp. and Norfolk Southern Corp. formally take over Conrail's operations, although the companies will not actually split the rail carrier for several more months. According to the Associated Press, the stamp being unveiled was of the aerodynamically streamlined design that stressed efficiency and speed. The train pictured is the 20th Century Limited and was based on a poster given to a New York museum by the New York Central Railroad, a Conrail predecessor. ___________________________________________________________________________ ___ __ DannyB2@concentric.net The Home of Al Tuner's OS List ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Photos of new Bowser PRR cars are up Date: Wed, 19 Aug 98 17:13:30 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 879 On 8/18/98 8:18 AM, Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com (Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com) wrote: > Will you be getting the new Bowser cars to sell? No. My distributor does not handle Bowser and I do not have enough Bowser volume to go direct. Try Liberty Model Productions; they'll fix you up. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Loco Number question Date: Wed, 19 Aug 98 17:14:43 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 951 On 8/18/98 8:51 AM, Bobspf@aol.com (Bobspf@aol.com) wrote: >I thought Jerry or someone on the list bought the book with the alltime >numbering list of PRR steam locos. I never buy it because it isn't high on >the list of my priorities to add to my movers boxes of "stuff". > The data is being keyed in by another subscriber. When completed, it will be posted on "KC". ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Shipper1@webtv.net (none at all) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:38:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Content-Length: 467 anyone know the value of a brass westside prr jia 2-10-4 painted , excellent Ed be sure to write back ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stephen Bernas Subject: RE: [PRR] Fwd: TNFH Philatelic Dept: CR Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 21:11:18 -0400 Content-Length: 2631 I guess New York and the NYC historical societies had better lobbyists. Stephen Bernas Bernass1@erols.com -----Original Message----- From: Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com [SMTP:Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 3:57 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Fwd: TNFH Philatelic Dept: CR What about the Pennsy? ___________________________________________________________________________ __ WASHINGTON -- The U.S. Postal Service used a stamp dedication ceremony Tuesday to honor Conrail Inc., just days before the rail company gets new owners that want to dissolve it. Allen Kane, the Postal Service's chief marketing officer, said Conrail has been an important partner in transporting mail between hundreds of cities in the Northeast and the Midwest. "Each time, Conrail has consistently measured up to our high transportation standards," Mr. Kane said in prepared remarks. "Conrail's focus on quality operations, customer service and innovative systems and services that satisfy customers' needs is virtually unmatched." Federal rail regulators last month approved a $10 billion plan to carve up Conrail routes and end 22 years of a congressionally created rail monopoly in the Northeast. On Saturday, CSX Corp. and Norfolk Southern Corp. formally take over Conrail's operations, although the companies will not actually split the rail carrier for several more months. According to the Associated Press, the stamp being unveiled was of the aerodynamically streamlined design that stressed efficiency and speed. The train pictured is the 20th Century Limited and was based on a poster given to a New York museum by the New York Central Railroad, a Conrail predecessor. ___________________________________________________________________________ ___ __ DannyB2@concentric.net The Home of Al Tuner's OS List ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:15:30 -0400 From: Chris Brandt Subject: Re: [PRR] Fwd: TNFH Philatelic Dept: CR Content-Length: 555 WASHINGTON: The Postal Service has just announced a stamp commemorating Alexander Hamilton. It is a beautiful engraved portrait of Aaron Burr. -- Chris Brandt http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Bowser "Merchandise Service" box car Date: Thu, 20 Aug 98 06:30:25 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 706 I have an opportunity to pick up some Bowser "Merchandise Service" box car kits (#4110) real cheap. How do these fare per prototype? ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] CT1000W Date: Thu, 20 Aug 98 08:28:47 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 848 Thanks to Ken McCorry's original, the 1945 CT1000W is now available from "Keystone Crossings" in Acrobat format. It is in the Documents section and may be downloaded via web. It will also be on the next CD-ROM release with some other "soon to be announced" unique items. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:49:53 -0400 From: "D.J. Mikulec" Subject: Re: [PRR] CT1000W Content-Length: 924 Jerry wrote: > > Thanks to Ken McCorry's original, the 1945 CT1000W is now available from > "Keystone Crossings" in Acrobat format. It is in the Documents section > and may be downloaded via web. It will also be on the next CD-ROM release > with some other "soon to be announced" unique items. While on the subject, I have a May 1, 1945 CT1000 for sale (best offer). Those interested may e-mail me for further details. -D -- David Mikulec DT&I Modelers Page http://DTI.Railfan.net The Nostalgia Trip Homepage http://www.users.mis.net/~shazada/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:37:49 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser "Merchandise Service" box car Content-Length: 1223 Jerry, I remember seeing this car when it first arrived at my local Hobby Shop. I had no idea what it was supposed to represent. It appeared to me at the time to be a car composed of X-31 sides and a more conventional peaked raised panel roof. I checked the Bowser website (which is very nice) after reading your post. They do not show this car in their list of current HO freight cars. One thought since you refer to this as a "Merchandise Service" car is an attempt to reproduce the X-41 class cars. This would be 50' in length but of welded construction. It would have a single door 4/4 ends and a peaked raised panel (Murphy panel) roof. You and others can check the kits dimensions against the X-41 cars by refering to the diagrams on Rob Schoenberg's Pennsy Home Page at http://prr.railfan.net/index.html . Ed Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:17:48 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: [PRR] Rule 45? Content-Length: 1303 A few years ago, at a local NRHS meeting that I attend every few years, I picked up what is supposed to be an old railroad sign, apparently some type of Approach to Stop sign It says APPROACH -------- RULE 45 The "APPROACH" is a line above the "RULE 45", in case it comes through skewed. The sign had a lot of use, holes top & bottom are worn, with the mark of a suport post on the back. Of course, I am also assuming it was a railroad sign. The quoting of a rule number is puzzling. The sign is about 24 X 18 inches, plywood, black letters on a yellow Scotchlight background, so it is probably under 50 years old. May have been New Haven. I have been through every rule book I have, NH, PRR, NYC, B&M, Standard and Uniform Codes, small Track Gang books, no Rule 45. Is anyone familiar with a Rule 45? Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 05:36:27 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR Item on eBay Content-Length: 485 Centennial History of theThe Pennsylvania Railroad Co. 1846-1946 Item #26524708 Harold Modeling the Middle Division in 1916 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 05:40:59 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR Item on eBay "On the Main Line" Content-Length: 528 Edwin P. Alexander "On the Main Line" PA Railroad in the 19th Century-367 b/w Illustrations. Item #26485605. Excellant Harold Modeling the Middle Division in 1916 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 06:07:37 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser "Merchandise Service" box car Content-Length: 2708 In a message dated 8/20/98 3:42:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ELM2@aol.com writes: > Jerry, > I remember seeing this car when it first arrived at my local Hobby > Shop. I had no idea what it was supposed to represent. It appeared to me at > the time to be a car composed of X-31 sides and a more conventional peaked > raised panel roof. > I checked the Bowser website (which is very nice) after reading > your > post. They do not show this car in their list of current HO freight cars. Gize, Perhaps I can help with the mystery here. When a group of us visited Bowser's plant in May of 1997, Lee English showed us around. One of the things he pointed out to us was that, while the serious PRR models like the X31 and X32 were important to the business, a very profitable segment was "custom painted cars", marked with logos of companies, NCAA college teams and pro sports teams. In order to have a "regular" boxcar to paint these on, the modular dies for X31 sides and ends are combined with a die segment for a peaked roof. The injection molded result is a car that looks to us like an X31 with the wrong roof -- because that's what it is. But it looks to everybody else like "a boxcar". These nonprototypical cars are not listed as Bowser -- they are sold by "English's Model Railroad Supply" (Lee's hobby shop there in Montoursville PA). Under the same brand is now available a large variety of paint jobs from many different railroads, much in the same way Bev Bel paints everything on an Athearn 1937 boxcar shell. Some modelers will be bothered by this practice, and some won't. But it didn't take long for me to recognize that the Englishes, father and son, are smart to take advantage of the flexibility in their dies to increase their market share in total toy and model train sales. Far from harming Pennsy modelers, it insures that the money for new products like the F30A and GS projects will continue to be there. So smile when you see them peaked X31s again, pardner... Til the next train out, Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) Operating the Panhandle Route And Remembering PRR Lines West ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 08:18:26 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: Lines West activities Content-Length: 3246 Rick, I've been a bit remiss. I've decided to reschedule LWFF in late winter, early Spring. I've been helping organize a state legislative campaign that's getting serious. I'm about to start working on iy nearly fulltime until Nov. 3. It is not possible for me to do both. I'd like some feedback on dates for reschedule. On the bright side, the additional time gives me time to tie down two incentives I'd like to offer with the premiere registration package, a Pennsy Lines patch or ball cap and a copy of the Philadelphia chapyter's 150th anniversary PRR research guide as an alternative to or an addition to the Greene County HIstorical Society's Next Stop Xenia. Also, If we could get more people involved in planning, the sucess of the event would be less dependent on one person's schedule. This is the second time that my availablity has adversley affected LWFF scheduling. I'll be putting in a notice in "The Call Board," local NMRA newsletter looking for persons to help. Three bridges across the Ohio? I count FOUR, Weirton/Steubenville. Cincinnati, Louisville and the Wheeling connecting bridge between the Cleveland & Pittsburgh's line on the Ohio's west bank at Bellaire, Ohio, and the PRR east bank spur from Wierton to just south of Wheeling. While not a major crossing, it should at least merit an aside. I like the idea about the bridges. As I've said before, I've long wanted to know about the L&N connection so traffic thjrough Xenia can be more accurately modeled. Steubenville/Weirton, the result of nearly two decades of intense effort, was the only 100% PRR project. Since the state lines are the 1792 low water mater on the Ohio bank, all Ohio River bridges west of the Ohio- Pennsylvania state line are the responsibiluty of West Virginia or Kentucky. Given the investment pattern of the Pennsyb boad in the mid1800s, it is quite obivious that thje PRR was a behind the scenes player in the L&N bidge that crossed into Cincinnati from the west bank of the mouth of the Licking River. Again, there was more direct involvement with the Louisville bidge. The Jeffersonville, Madison & Indianapolis' investment in the Louisville Bridge Co. was a consideration in the 1871 decision to lease the JM&I. It may be beyond the scope of the thesis, but the PRR was also involved in twop other major riiver crossings, it was part of the consortium that built the Eads bridge across the Mississippi at St. Louis, the first to cross the mighty rivver. I don't know when the Toledo, Peoria & Western built its bridge across the Mississippi at Keokuk, Iowa but this line was owned by the PRR from 1890 to 1927. Also, any bridge across the Illinois River at Peoria for the Terre Haute & Peoria would be an engineering undertaking of only slightly less magnitude than any Ohio or Mississippi crossing. Good Luck. Tom V. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 08:29:07 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Amtrak Spd Restr signs... Content-Length: 1517 In a message dated 8/21/98 4:05:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time, sbartlet@capecod.net writes:<< My favorite sign is out on the Corridor, approaching several curves. It says, 80 Steve B. >> ****Those are the new ( 5 -(?) years ago..) AMTRAK speed restriction signs, mostly placed in the catenary....I like 'em..!!!! ALL over the NEC... If you ever think that you * really * know the Corridor, try to qualify..... You have to give > oral, CLOSED BOOK < the listing of ALL speeds, max AND restrictions, for each track ( all diff.....such as 80/100/105/80 ) from NYC to PENN. VERY BIG SIGN , very obvious....hey, it gets BORING out there after awhile...up and down, down and up. Railway hypnosis, ESP @ 120 mph in AEM7 sitting @ a DESK. All of my neat trips were GG1s, of course. And , recently, just for a change, we got a...... FLYING BRICK ! NEVER....did I ever think that I would LIKE those E60's.....or GP40s. NOW, they are the " historic power " , so OF COURSE THEY ARE NEAT>>!!!! ..................I need a scanner OR a web site to share this stuff.....nb* ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Shipper1@webtv.net (none at all) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:07:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Content-Length: 1034 Hi I'm new to PRR talk, I live in Canton Ohio. I have a large train layout , modeled after the PRR. It is L shaped with one side 24 ft long and the other 27 ft, and 10 ft wide. I have scenery as they do in Pennsyvania, hilly with houses and buildings on many diffferent levels. I have a oil refinery, industrial area , and wide open spaces that lead into long tunnels. I also have another level where I have a logging company cuting trees. I have a large turntable, with all the PRR diesels with antennas and superdetailed. I have steam engines also all from the 50's that are brass . I just wanted to share that with PRR fans. Ed be sure to write back ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] TAN: Win free web hosting at PENNSYRR.COM Date: Fri, 21 Aug 98 10:56:39 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 2517 The countdown to increased bandwidth for PENNSYRR.COM and DSOP.COM has begun. Funds are banked for the changeover costs as well as new hardware requirements. Estimated implementation is October. As previously stated, I do not currently take in enough hosting income to offset the increased operating costs. My monthly service costs will jump from $105 to $230 per month. I figure it'll take about six months to find and bring new web hosting accounts online. I appreciate the business from those who are already online, but many prospective customers wish to see the increased bandwidth before committing, understandably. So... I am likely to run a deficit for six months or so. I occasionally recieve donations from list subscribers, which I appreciate. On a busy day, my server processes up to 10,000 messages for "PRR-Talk" alone! Add to that "Conrail-Talk", "PRRMO", and "PRR2000" and it really adds up! I've come up with a little promo that will benefit the increase bandwidth and will make someone happy: From now through December 1, all donors who donate $20 or more to the kitty will be entered into a random drawing to be held on December 1. The winner will receive one year of free web hosting (50MB of space with all the bells and whistles) via PENNSYRR.COM (if a PRR site) or DSOP.COM (otherwise) to run from 1/1/99 to 12/31/99. This is a $240 value! To donate, please see http://kc.pennsyrr.com/support.html . Thank you! * I must exclude current web hosting customers from this promo, as that would be counterproductive. However, these customers (who donate) will be entered in the drawing anyway. Should one be chosen, they will receive one hour of free web design work. A runner up will then be drawn to receive the free hosting for a year. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Trucks and Traction Motors for PA's and BP20's From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 98 11:00:03 -0400 Content-Length: 544 To the best of my knowledge the trucks under PAs and BP20 were a standard product of General Steel Castings; and therefore were identical. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:09:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Bej Subject: [PRR] Philly-area question Content-Length: 595 I recently typed in freight train schedules for Thurlow. These are listed, often, as "Thurlow (Chester)". Where is Thurlow? Is it an old name for some town since absorbed by Chester? Or is it an existing town? -- Mark D. Bej ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:29:09 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR] Content-Length: 573 ****saw prize...hmmm... and beg-a -thon..., heck; you are a more worthwhile cause than......ummm...sally struthers....hahhaha. If she would diet, we COULD feed the world..!!!! I AM IN..CK TODAY.Bill*** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Congressional From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 98 12:41:43 -0400 Content-Length: 1812 Jerry wrote : I just received my new Congressional car set of 18. Can anyone tell me if their were any rules for placement of the cars. Lunch Counter/Tavern Car relative to the Dining Car? Dining Car relative to Kitchen/Bar Lounge Car (Kitchen or Bar Lounge next to the Dining Car)? Conference Parlor Car? Four Chair/Lounge Cars? Five Parlor/Drawing Room Cars? Would anyone have knowledge if Three brass GG1's would pull the 18 cars on 1.5% grade? Has any one checked out the KD coupler # yet? Thanks a lot, ======== Jerry, The traditional practice was to segregate the first class passengers from the coach passengers. Whenever possible the coaches would be together, the parlor cars would all be together, and the two groups of cars would be separated buy the diner. Since the observation car serviced the first class passengers, the parlor cars would all be aft of the diner so as to be with the obs. Now I'm guessing, but I think the Lunch Counter/Tavern Car was intended primarily for the coach passengers and therefor would have bee forward of the diner/kitchen-bar lounge. The bar-lounge would have been for first class, so the kitchen-bar lounge would be aft of the dining room car. Yes the kitchen and the dining room car would have to be adjacent. In fact they were a semi-permanently coupled pair. regards Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org BTW What are you doing with the Congo on the North Central?? ;-) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Trains Unlimited Date: Fri, 21 Aug 98 15:51:15 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 929 It's rerun season on The History Channel..as far as Trains Unlimited is concerned, that is. However, this past week was one that I missed: "Railroads in War Time". Caught it on tape. Next week is "Pullman Cars". ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:26:35 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Philly-area question Content-Length: 909 In a message dated 98-08-21 12:32:00 EDT, bejm@gateway.eeg.ccf.org writes: << Where is Thurlow? >> Thurlow was a yard located between what is now Chester(HIghland Avenue) and Marcus Hook. Old timetables show a station called Trainer, which was at Thurlow Yard. The site is clearly visible on the west side of the railroad, but it's abandoned. There might still be one track completely covered with underbrush. Thurlow could well have been within the city limits of Chester, and was certainly the nearest yard to Chester. Rich Copeland ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:17:54 -0400 From: "s.a. mccall" Subject: [PRR] Query Content-Length: 2822 Greetings, A few unusual power sightings on the NEC this morning to make the dull morning commute to the City a little more intersting. I am at work so I do not have my "notes", however I will get this data for you, and update the list. Have someone give you the spec on the sightings or anyone else who knows about it. I am looking for any information any one might have on a bridge. I believe it was a part of the bridge but I can't confirm it. By the way, the bridge is no longer in railroad service. As a comparison, the Titanic sunk on a plateau adjacent to SP/UP's Soledad Canyon line, with mountains all around it. Filmed at night, you'd never know, though for us commuters it was a pretty awsome sight. Each day of the week it's tilt would get a bit higher as it "went down". May refer to Amtrak. Would seem to me that if the handicapped find the handicapped bedroom too expensive--which I can understand--can't they stay in a standard bedroom? What is to stop them from staying in any room for which they can get a reservation? Probably can't get to the toilet! Did this actually happen????? If this did not happen, anyone know what this referred to? Is it usually close to time or is it usually late, if so-how late. A friend is picking me up and I'd like to tell him about when to be there. Thanks in advance! I am afraid my post may have been misunderstood. Please correct if I am wrong on this. Does someone have a shot of this one to confirm the number? It appeared that most equipment has been moved outside. Looks like a great weekend. Dow Jones Industrial Average closed today, will open again tomorrow. Don't make this thing harder than it is. We are talking about the movie industry. It has always cut its teeth on creating the real from the unreal. Has anyone else heard of this as well. I don't know for sure how this would be determined in the case of the Union Pacific. What do I first see..... a rail line going into a building. Then i see a yellow Jigger. Full story can be read at: If Junior answers tell him I said Hello!!!! Above excerpts were from actual(some have been edited to protect the guilty) posts recently (today), thought everyone needed a break from the daily woes, have a nice weekend and keep on railroading........ Sincerely, HOSAM HO models by SAM Franklin, Va. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:40:29 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] PRR talk talent Content-Length: 1452 Hi Folks... This while not exactly railroad related is to congradulate one of our own...Mr. George Pierson for his article in the September issue of Model Railroad Craftsmen on the narrow gauge lines in the east. Now we know where you get your inspiration for your model railroad George. All of us on the PRR Talk list are blessed with all of the folks who are such able writers, such as Mr. Pierson and Mr.Dan Cupper. Also the many folks who while they are not as well known by others outside of this list have been invaluable in their knowledge of both the prototype and modeling of the PRR. All of this makes for some of the reasons we are part of the list to begin with. While there might not be something for everyone all the time,there is something from time to time that each of us can use and learn from. This spirit of comradery is what makes this list such a great place. Well off of my soap box and back to my models.... Til Later Hank Mummert ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] SALE - Westerfield: 3 kits for $45!!! Date: Fri, 21 Aug 98 20:30:36 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1031 Our distributor is having a sale, so so are we!!! Now through Dec. 31, you can get Westerfield HO kits that normally run $26-28 each at the unheard of price of "3 for $45". Limited quantities apply, and only about 100 products are available (not the whole line), so get 'em while the gettin's good! See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/ for details. As always, proceeds benefit the lists and web pages of PENNSYRR.COM and DSOP.COM. Thank you. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 23:03:50 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Congressional Content-Length: 1250 **For Jerry, Andy and all " Congo " fans.....9/54 Tr#131, the Morning Congo": MS-60 / Express B-60 / Express B-60 / P-85-H / Coffee shop tavern / P-85-H / Dining Room - Kitchen// twin unit // Bar-Parlor-Lounge / PL 7 DR-w.phone / PL29 Chair -1DR / PL 29 Chair-1 DR / PL Obs -Bar-Lounge. This consist; couplet A. Car M W Baldwin ( 7 DR Parlor equipped with telephone assigned to this train. Car George Washington - 18 Chair - 25 seat Parlor Obs ass. to this train. (This info from one of Chuck Blardone's available PRR Consist copies; please write if interested. Fantastic data for psgr fans. The Afternoon Congo was longer, couplet J.....For "Jerry"...who will have his consist copy shortly, and I'll let him finish the honors...... I rode this train to work every day in 1965, and it sure beat riding # 3815...red MUs or not..!!.....................Bill*** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 11:45:00 -0500 (CDT) From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr." Subject: [PRR] Travels Content-Length: 2353 Hi everyone I'm back in the office after being gone most of the time between July 20th and August 20th. I signed off PRR-Talk to keep from accumulating 1500 messages and clogging the system as happened a couple of years ago. My wife and I flew to Albany, NY on July 19th and visited an old friend of her mother for a couple of days. On the 22st we boarded Amtrak in Albany and rode to New York City. I poked my nose out of Union Station long enough to learn the air stank and then went back below. We took Amtrak from NYC to Philadelphia riding backwards so we would be riding forward from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh. I really enjoyed all segments of the trip. The Albany to NYC line probably would not be built today as it cuts across marshes, embayments and all manner of habitats that are off limits. Scenery between NYC and Philly was pretty nondescript. The most interesting part of that segment was talking with the conductor who started working when the line belonged to the PRR. One year with PRR, then the years with Penn Central, then Amtrak. He started off riding behind GG1 engines. Beautiful country between Philly and Pittsburgh. I made my first trip around Horseshoe Curve and the view was blocked by a *%$*@ intermodal headed toward Altoona. Oh well. At all times the trains ran on time and were clean as a whistle. We even arrived in Pittsburgh 20 minutes early. Wish the same could be said for passenger service out here. I was back for a week but did not sign on. Spent the 14th through the 20th diving offshore on a Texas Parks and Wildlife project looking at artificial reefs. We got back just in time - the tropical storm blew up right after I got home. On the boat I learned the chief scientist is also a railroad nut, so I hope to get her involved in the Museum here. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551-5926 409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 harperd@tamug.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 98 12:55:02 CST Subject: [PRR] Book alert... Content-Length: 2168 Hi, everyone, I recently received two books from the Old & Weary Carshop (more on them in a minute). In the product list included there was reference to a forthcoming book (late 1998) on the Western New York & Pennsylvania. No author is indicated, although it is listed adjacent to the four volumes by Paul Pietrak on various western PA rr's (see below). Anyway, the blurb says "taking reservations" so I've put my name in. The WNY&PA was the line from Emporium to Buffalo which eventually was folded into the PRR. O&W Carshops are on the web at: http://members.aol.com/AL1HDAGENT/index. html The proprietor (sp?) is Allan Seebach (sp?), whose e-mail address is: AL1HDAGENT@aol.com When I paid a quick visit to the site today, he did not have this info posted (or at least I could not find it), but maybe it's on the way. The books I ordered were two by Paul Pietrak, originally published in the late 1960's/early 70's and out of print for some time. They are a history of the Buffalo & Susquehanna, and a history of the Coudersport & Port Allegany/ New York & Pennsylvania. The C&PA connected with the PRR at Port Allegany. Pietrak also has two other books which I already had on the Buffalo, Rochester & Pittsburgh, and the Pittsburgh, Shawmut & Northern. All are well done with lots of great vintage photos, a good basic history, and maps and rosters. There is not a real direct PRR connection here but they are worth consideration on their own merits. A number of them have good stuff on the area n.g. lines, esp. the PS&N book. They are about $20 a book - see the ad in the Sept. RMC, somewhere around p.97. PRR forever! Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 15:20:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: [PRR] N6b and N8 Content-Length: 679 Today I happened into a shop which had a bunch of "new" Tyco (and Life-Like) N8, *and* Model Power N6b... So now I have some to work on; If anyone's in search of them, let me know. I paid $5 - 25% which I figure is better than I would have done on Ebay.... Now, to dig up those tips people have posted.... -D ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 15:13:53 -0700 From: Roger Elliott Subject: [PRR] Micro-trains coal cars Content-Length: 977 HI there, I happen to have 4 MicroTrains coal cars that have wood sides (I guess....) with vertical and diagonal outside braces. They need to be decaled but trying to put the decals on with all those braces looks like a pain. And in real life, I suspect that painting the lettering on also would have been a pain. So, I thought I remembered a while back that someone mentioned putting a "board" over the bracing on which the lettering could be easily transferred.... Are these cars PRR ptotoype? Where can I find a photo on the web of one? Any help would be appreciated..... Thanks, Roger Elliott ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 21:28:07 -0700 From: ironhorse@sprintmail.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Micro-trains coal cars Content-Length: 2378 Roger, The Micro-Trains composite twin hopper is a USRA prototype. PRR class H31B is the closest I can think of quickly to answer your question, but it's not quite the same. The H31B was a war emergency car with wood side and steel bracing. When the war was over and steel rationing was discontinued, the PRR replaced the wood sides with steel sheet--the resulting car was class H31C (bracing stayed the same). There is a photo of an H31C in PENNSY POWER III on page 407. If I'm not mistaken, while these cars had the wood sides, the would have only worn the circle keystone paint and stencilling, with the letters spaced so they would fit between the braces. It's doubtful the PRR used any letter panels on cars during the war years because of the extra materials needed to make and fasten them to the car sides, not to mention the extra time involved. I can't seem to find a photo of an H31B to verify that one way or the other. Chuck Friedlein Roger Elliott wrote: > > HI there, > I happen to have 4 MicroTrains coal cars that have wood sides (I > guess....) with vertical and diagonal outside braces. They need to be > decaled but trying to put the decals on with all those braces looks like > a pain. And in real life, I suspect that painting the lettering on also > would have been a pain. > > So, I thought I remembered a while back that someone mentioned putting a > "board" over the bracing on which the lettering could be easily > transferred.... > > Are these cars PRR ptotoype? Where can I find a photo on the web of > one? > > Any help would be appreciated..... > Thanks, > Roger Elliott > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 01:16:27 EDT Subject: [PRR] Micro-trains coal cars Content-Length: 980 In a message dated 98-08-23 00:42:12 EDT, Ckhuck Friedlein writes: << It's doubtful the PRR used any letter panels on cars during the war years because of the extra materials needed to make and fasten them to the car sides, not to mention the extra time involved. I can't seem to find a photo of an H31B to verify that one way or the other. >> Summer 1986 Keystone, Vol. 19 No. 2 has three photos of H31b --no letter panels. BTW, the view of H31C which has letter panel is the second lettering scheme. Letter panels were not used in first or third schemes in the photos in that same issue. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:38:14 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] BP20 Shark Drives Content-Length: 1722 In a message dated 8/18/98 12:26:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time, wsbcos@cris.com writes: << I'll probably get fried on this one, but - The A-1-A truck under the PA and PB20 was made by GSC - General Steel Castings, a one time Baldwin subsidiary. I need to unpack some books, but the book title is (I think this is the correct title ) "The Diesels that Baldwin Built " Kalmbach was the Publisher. I checked their current list and it is not on it. I think the C type (three motor trucks) was also a GSC product. Of course I could be all wrong too. I miss my books. The book had a blue jacket and a picture of a baby face Centipede on the front. cos Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote: >> Bruce, I think the ook you are referring to is : DIESELS FROM EDDYSTONE: THE STORY OF THE BALDWIN DIESEL LOCOMOTIVES G. W. Dolzall and Stephen F. Dolzall. Kalmbach is right. It mentions on page 13 that Baldwin did own 25% interest in GSC, which makes good business sense seeing how their plant was "next door" to Baldwin's in EDDYSTONE. So I dug a bit deeper and although the Passenger Shark rode on an A-1-A truck it does not say the truck was produced by GSC as it does on the other trucks for different locomotives. I guess we need to really start digging into it. Watching from LINES way out WEST GREG MARTIN ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 12:50:52 -0700 From: Frank Bagrash Subject: [PRR] PRR E-7's Content-Length: 939 Hi all, For what it's worth, I was recently in a hobby shop that had a few P2K PRR E-7A/B's (HO) for sale at a good discount (about 40% off retail). Most were DGLE, but I think I saw one in Tuscan. There were also some Stewart FT A's (undec) at 50% off. If you are interested this is at: All Aboard Model Railroad Supply in Torrance, California. Phone is 310-791-2637. Ask for Mike (the owner). They are open 7 days/week. I have no financial interest in All Aboard; I just want them to stay in business because it is one of the better hobby shops. Regards, Frank ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 16:08:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Bej Subject: [PRR] Freight schedules Content-Length: 675 The freight train schedules have surpassed the 50% completed mark! http://www.neuro.ccf.org/~bejm/Rail/Prr/Frtsched/ R and T-Z are completed in their entirety. I am still accepting volunteers for typing, if anyone wishes to undertake this. There is additional explanatory text on the main page. -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 16:10:32 EDT Subject: [PRR] Cary K3 boiler Content-Length: 465 Greetings to the group. Does anyone have a Cary K3 boiler they would like to sell or swap?? Don Murphy ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Micro-trains coal cars Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:52:33 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 2426 On 22 Aug, Roger Elliott wrote: > I happen to have 4 MicroTrains coal cars that have wood sides (I > guess....) with vertical and diagonal outside braces. They need to be > decaled but trying to put the decals on with all those braces looks like > a pain. Assuming that these are MT 57000 cars, MT has issued it in H31B "BUY WAR BONDS" guise, MT#57100, road number 220877. In lieu of a scanned photo, please see paint diagram below, drawn by Ron Dugas (I hope he doesn't mind). BTW, what are you using for decals? I'm using an Oddballs PRR X26 set for several MT outside-braced boxcars, and yes, it's quite a bit of fun! You'll feel better if you think of it in terms of hobby hours per dollar. > Are these cars PRR ptotoype? Where can I find a photo on the web of > one? This car is pretty close to the H31B, number series 220842-221341. If you want H31C you can putty in the joints between the planks (no, I haven't done it; it promises to be even more fun than decaling this car!). MT also makes a ribside (56000) which is a close match for the H31, and has issued it in a five-pack and a single. ASCII art by Ron Dugas: In ASCII-(Definately not to scale): H31B- _____________________________________________ | | | \ BUY | \ WAR |BONDS/ | / | |__| | | | P\ ENN|S \ YLV|ANI /A | ck / | | | |__| | \ |220\877| / | / | |__| | | | \ |****\ | / | / | | | |__| | \ |**** \ | / | / ****| |__| | | | \|**** \|/******|/ H31B| |__| |~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\~~| | | |~| ~~~ ~~~ ck=Circle Keystone *=Small Lettering Lines above road name and below road number. Note stirrup and ladder differences. Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 23:39:01 EDT Subject: [PRR] Web Site / space offers.. Content-Length: 906 ****I wish to sincerely thank * ALL * who responded to my plea for web site / space, to share my stuff....PRR, CNJ, NH, signals, towers, maps, etc. I received a H-P scanner as a gift (!), and a great offer for a web page / web site. The offer came from an old contemporary of mine, and a new friend ! He is a professional in the RR field, and understands my desires and my quest for accuracy exactly. He has made me, " ..an offer I can't refuse..."..... ( Yes, he used to be from New Yawk...hahhaha...). Thanks all, details soon, Bill** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 06:57:38 -0400 From: Dave Freshwater Subject: Re: [PRR] Micro-trains coal cars Content-Length: 1596 Roger Elliott wrote: > > HI there, > I happen to have 4 MicroTrains coal cars that have wood sides (I > guess....) with vertical and diagonal outside braces. They need to be > decaled but trying to put the decals on with all those braces looks like > a pain. And in real life, I suspect that painting the lettering on also > would have been a pain. > > So, I thought I remembered a while back that someone mentioned putting a > "board" over the bracing on which the lettering could be easily > transferred.... > > Are these cars PRR ptotoype? Where can I find a photo on the web of > one? > > Any help would be appreciated..... > Thanks, > Roger Elliott > > I've recently done 2 cars like this - using the M-T undecorated hopper as the starting point. They aren't perfect for a PRR H31B, as noted the M-Ts are based on the USRA prototype, but they are close enough for me. I used NorthEast Decals Hopper set, PRR-03, to do my cars. C-D-S also makes a dry transfer set for the H-31Bs, set number N-665. That set includes the "Buy War Bonds" lettering. The lettering diagram included looks like it matches the "bad ASCII art" that has already been provided. Dave Freshwater North Potomac, MD ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] AccuRail 55 Ton PRR Hoppers Date: Mon, 24 Aug 98 10:39:04 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 789 Are the Accurail 55 Ton Hoppers in PRR an accurate prototype? If so, what class? ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] AccuRail 55 Ton PRR Hoppers From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 98 11:20:14 -0400 Content-Length: 713 Are the Accurail 55 Ton Hoppers in PRR an accurate prototype? If so, what class? Jerry Britton, SPF =========== No. No class. They are vaugely similar to the rare H2a class which were really N&W cars the PRR leased. If you want accurate PRR 50t hoppers, look at your Westerfield sale list! Try 2362 and 5701. regards Andy Miller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:33:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Bej Subject: [PRR] Train PT-84/85 Content-Length: 1675 Phila-area guys, a couple of questions. Pick up the freight train schedule for PT-85/PT-84, which you can find at http://gateway.eeg.ccf.org/~bejm/Rail/Prr/Frtsched/pt85_1960.html and follow along. First off, many of the connecting trains are not listed in my freight train schedule binder. Are these all local shifters? In particular, I have yet to see a train schedule with a number greater than 99. What is the significance of these numbers? How were these trains different? The freight schedules constantly talk of this or that "Classification". E.g., they talk about the Conway West Classification, the Conway East Classification, Canton Classification, etc. The usage seems to imply a yard at each location. If correct, where was the North Phila. Classification, referred to under PAVONIA on this schedule, handled? In N. PHila? At Frankford Jct.? Was there some yard west of Frankford Jct. that is no longer much in use or that I don't know about? WHere would the Penrose Classification (block 2) been handled? This block is set off at Penrose. Where (geographically) would this have been done? Was there something there besides the 2 main tracks? Or was the Penrose Classification handled somewhere not very close to Penrose interlocking? Thanks. -- Mark D. Bej ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:19:37 -0400 From: DJMikulec Subject: Re: [PRR] Train PT-84/85 Content-Length: 848 Mark Bej wrote: > > Phila-area guys, a couple of questions. Pick up the freight train schedule for > PT-85/PT-84, which you can find at > http://gateway.eeg.ccf.org/~bejm/Rail/Prr/Frtsched/pt85_1960.html > and follow along. Would anyone on the list have a similar schedule for Saint Paris, Ohio area where the PRR interchanged with the DT&I? -D -- David Mikulec DT&I Modelers Page http://DTI.Railfan.net The Nostalgia Trip Homepage http://www.users.mis.net/~shazada/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] SALE: Westerfield Catalog - follow up Date: Mon, 24 Aug 98 13:35:14 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1263 A few people have had trouble downloading the Westerfield sale catalog. Let me know, and I'll e-mail it to you as an attachment. There are about 100 kits listed. The PRR kits are: 1251 46' Gondola Pennsylvania 1304 36' XL Box PRR/PL 1351 36' XL Modern Box PRR/PL 2361 33' GL/GLC Twin Hop PRR 2752 36' RF Reefer PRR AmRwyExp 2754 36' XM Vent Box PRR Modern 3201 H21A - Hopper Pennsylvania 3202 H21A - Hopper PRR Clamshell 3306 USRA SS Box Car PRR 5701 33' GLA Hopper PRR 6201 40' X25 steel Auto car PRR Sorry, no Camp Cars!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:45:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Train PT-84/85 Content-Length: 1024 On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, DJMikulec wrote: > Would anyone on the list have a similar schedule for Saint Paris, Ohio > area where the PRR interchanged with the DT&I? > > -D > -- > David Mikulec > DT&I Modelers Page David, Since the schedules are all typed, I have no way of searching them (except by hand) for a particular city name. Please look through the index and see which trains may be the passing through the area, and I can check a few specific names. I don't have the time to check all trains not typed in yet. Many additional trains in the SW part of PRR territory will be typed in soon, now that I have another volunteer. -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] AccuRail 55 Ton PRR Hoppers Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:48:23 -0500 Content-Length: 1874 Jerry--The Accurail 55 ton cars are supposed to model USRA hoppers. I have not had one in hand to determine if it is in fact an accurate model; however the Tichy hopper is an extremely accurate model of the USRA car. PRR did in fact have these cars, class GLD, but only about 300, an insignificant number compared to 30,000 H21 or GLCA. See Rob's PRR Home Page, http://prr.railfan.net/index.html for more info. The car which Accurail shows on their webpage does have a good number for this class. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL -----Original Message----- From: Jerry To: PRR-Talk Date: Monday, August 24, 1998 9:53 AM Subject: [PRR] AccuRail 55 Ton PRR Hoppers >Are the Accurail 55 Ton Hoppers in PRR an accurate prototype? If so, what >class? > >------------------------------------------------------------------ >Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com >Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. >Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com >Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > >Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com >The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! > > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Micro-trains coal cars Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:57:50 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 899 On 24 Aug, Dave Freshwater wrote: [ ... regarding MT 56000 as PRR H31B ... ] > I've recently done 2 cars like this - using the M-T undecorated hopper > as the starting point. They aren't perfect for a PRR H31B, as noted the > M-Ts are based on the USRA prototype, but they are close enough for me. Me, too. They're certainly the closest model I know of. > I used NorthEast Decals Hopper set, PRR-03, to do my cars. Does that set include class markings? Their boxcar set doesn't, much to my annoyance. Thanks! Dennis ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:43:50 -0500 From: Greg Johnson Subject: [PRR] Where's The Beef? Content-Length: 806 I am looking for information on the PRR "meat train" that ran from Chicago to New York, train NY-4 I believe. My interest is in that train during the 1966-early PC period. 1) How many stock cars were usually in the train? 2) Whose stock cars (usually) were they? 3) When did the stock cars disappear? 4) Did similar trains run over the panhandle into Pittsburg? Thanks, Greg Johnson (modeling the PRR in Pittsburg) gjohn195@swbell.net ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Reminder - Universal "What's New" page Date: Mon, 24 Aug 98 15:04:57 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1164 Just a reminder, folks, that we set up a universal "What's New" page so you can stop one place -- once a week, or daily -- and find out what's going on in PRR around the net. Both my "Keystone Crossings" and Rob Schoenburg's site post recent updates. Hopefully more PRR webmasters will join in. Should any significant news develop, I'll place it across the top like a newspaper. Any other ideas for this page? See http://www.pennsyrr.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:27:05 -0700 Subject: [PRR] PRR Interchange, Norfolk From: staffsgtyork@juno.com Content-Length: 3869 Greetings, Earthlings! For those who are interested in the Norfolk area, I have several neat things to share. The Pennsy and predecessor ( in the Delmarva and Norfolk area ) New York, Philadelphia,& Norfolk (ol' Nippin' N) moved freight by barge across the Chesapeake Bay to warehouses in the Norfolk area. In 1929 trackage rights over the Norfolk Southern Railway's Virginia Beach route were acquired to reach a new freight house at St. Julian Avenue. At this location the PRR exchanged with the N&W. New track from Little Creek, VA through Camden Heights was built to Coleman Place on the Virginian, where interchange took place there as well. Along this Virginian track the Norfolk & Portsmouth Belt Line performed local switch duties in Norfolk and the Portsmouth area, including Seawells Point. This little road also interchanged with the Pennsy at the Little Creek car float yard. Depending on the era you model, you can have the PRR crossing the Virginian's double main line with 2-8-8-2's pulling battleship gons; or crossing the N&W with their big steamers pulling "black diamonds". Both lines carried passengers trains past the PRR's exchange points. Modern era would contain big 6 axal N&W or NS Corp. diesels with coal, or 4 axles with freight or intermodal traffic. If you are interested in the Norfolk & Portsmouth Belt Line, the PRR shared ownership of the road with the N&W, ACL, SAL, Southern, Norfolk Southern Railway, and the C&O (info from Kurt Reisweber's VIRGINIAN RAILS, 1995 Old Line Graphics). The summer 1998 issue of Locomotive Quarterly has a feature on their steam engines, up through 1954. Several of former Vadalia Lines engines purged by the PRR (MDC 0-6-0's can be used for fairly close replicas with some work) and a couple of H-6 & H-9 PRR consolidations are included. One H-6 is former #3 NYP&N. Two or three issues ago, the PRRT&HS quarterly publication also showed N&PBL engines--all early 1950s purchases from the PRR. For diesels, one can use Proto 2K sw 1200 engines, with undec or any road using yellow grab irons if you are using the plastic ones included. Decals from Micro Scale MC 4068 for the EMD switcher Demo stripes, along with decals from Historic Concepts, 104 Beaton Dr., Portsmouth, VA 23701. Decals are $5 and include postage, prototype photo, and history. One set does two locos--one as delivered (circa 1955) and one modern (1960s until 1987). I spent 2 years looking for these decals, and almost had them made!! The line used 3 PRR NDA cabooses, acquired in 1929. They are former PRR #'s 479809, 479810, and 479811. 479809 became N&PBL # 310 (others #311 & 312). The #310 burned in 1947, and was rebuilt into non PRR caboose #314. I'm not sure what happened to them. The new Railworks brass DL&W caboose makes N&PBL 400 &401 with passenger trucks; 402-404 for cast trucks. I bought one with passenger trucks--my first new brass purchase! (Cigar, anyone?) So--not only did Pennsy have an influence on the N&W, but also the N&PBL. Just wanted to share some PRR related history for those interested (if not, hit delete!). Anyone know where I can get track plans for the area circa 1954? Sincerely, David W. "SSGT" York _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:56:05 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Micro-trains coal cars Content-Length: 650 I have a set of H-31's (H-31 + a b & c) in "O" scale thast I've been procrastinating decalling - a real pain CAN'T IMAGINE it in "N" scale By The way the "letterboards" are correct only for the post war "c' class - convertd from h-31b with the same cross bracing but steel sides Dick Ross ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:57:26 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Where's The Beef? Content-Length: 1341 In a message dated 8/24/98 3:44:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, gjohn195@swbell.net writes: << I am looking for information on the PRR "meat train" that ran from Chicago to New York, train NY-4 I believe. My interest is in that train during the 1966-early PC period. ***I recall the C N Y -4 on the NY Div end; in latter days, TT-4 had stock head out, also, for better handling.** 1) How many stock cars were usually in the train? ****Winding down in late 60's...4 or 5...** 2) Whose stock cars (usually) were they? ***PRR, etc...there was a large slaughterhouse along track 5 between HUNTER and LANE.....a really obnoxious odor during summer with MP-54 windows open....ugh !** 3) When did the stock cars disappear? ***good question...my guess, early 70's....???...have to do more digging.....Bill** 4) Did similar trains run over the panhandle into Pittsburg? Thanks, Greg Johnson (modeling the PRR in Pittsburg) gjohn195@swbell.net >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:15:07 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] AccuRail 55 Ton PRR Hoppers Content-Length: 818 In a message dated 8/24/98 11:19:43 AM Central Daylight Time, asmiller@mail11.mitre.org writes: << Are the Accurail 55 Ton Hoppers in PRR an accurate prototype? If so, what class? Jerry Britton> No. No class. They are vaugely similar to the rare H2a class which were really N&W cars the PRR leased. >> Didn't the Long Island get some of these USRA hoppers (about 500), some of which made their way to the Pennsy? Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:23:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Where's The Beef? Content-Length: 789 Your uncle "nit" says: On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Greg Johnson wrote: > I am looking for information on the PRR "meat train" that ran from > Chicago to New York, train NY-4 I believe. My interest is in that train > during the 1966-early PC period. ... > 4) Did similar trains run over the panhandle into Pittsburg? In 1966, no similar trains ran into Pittsburg, though some may have run to Pittsburgh. Sorry.... -D ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:33:23 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Where's The Beef? Content-Length: 749 Greg, Have you seen that article called "Last of the Eastern Stock cars" in RMC? It has the history of Pennsy's hot stock trains in the 50's-Conrail era, and notes on the various K class cars. I have the issue around somewhere, but I'd taken it to work to make a copy and now I don't know where in hades it is. maybe somebody on the list knows the issue I'm talking about. Barry Peltier ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:46:02 EDT Subject: [PRR] Walthers passenger cars Content-Length: 884 Folks, Seems like someone the other day was wondering about the old Walthers MU cars offered for several roads. (I've got an old catalog that lists NH, Rdg and IC amoung others). Well, I've heard rumors that the owner of , is it Keil-Line, has the old dies. I'm not sure if that's the correct spelling, but the company is in the walthers catalog. I would sure love to get hold of a 6-6 pullman and that horse express car, if nothing else. I might even trade my walthers MP-54 set! daydreams, eh? Regards, Barry Peltier ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:45:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Edward Turner - Atlanta - SSE Subject: Re: [PRR] Where's The Beef? Content-Length: 2047 A search of the Model Train Magazine Index by keyword "stockcar" at http://www.accurail.com/tm.htm show's the article "The Last Stand of the Stock Cars in the East" Model Railroad Craftsman January, 1993, pg 101 It also lists the article "Building Pennsy's Cattle Pullmans" Mainline Modeler August 1995, pg 74 Time to dig through those back issues :) Regards, Ed > From: > Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:33:23 EDT > To: gjohn195@swbell.net > Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Subject: Re: [PRR] Where's The Beef? > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.2 by Fog City Software, Inc. > List-Subscribe: > List-Digest: > List-Unsubscribe: > > Greg, > Have you seen that article called "Last of the Eastern Stock cars" in RMC? It > has the history of Pennsy's hot stock trains in the 50's-Conrail era, and > notes on the various K class cars. I have the issue around somewhere, but I'd > taken it to work to make a copy and now I don't know where in hades it is. > maybe somebody on the list knows the issue I'm talking about. > Barry Peltier > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 00:05:22 -0400 From: Dave Freshwater Subject: Re: [PRR] Micro-trains coal cars Content-Length: 1648 Dennis Rockwell wrote: > > On 24 Aug, Dave Freshwater wrote: > > [ ... regarding MT 56000 as PRR H31B ... ] > > > I've recently done 2 cars like this - using the M-T undecorated hopper > > as the starting point. They aren't perfect for a PRR H31B, as noted the > > M-Ts are based on the USRA prototype, but they are close enough for me. > > Me, too. They're certainly the closest model I know of. > > > I used NorthEast Decals Hopper set, PRR-03, to do my cars. > > Does that set include class markings? Their boxcar set > doesn't, much to my annoyance. > > Thanks! > > Dennis > The NorthEast decal set doesn't have class markings, or end numbers. I took the class markings out of a MicroScale alphabet lettering sheet. End markings either came from there or from leftover MicroScale or Fine N Scale kit decals. There are end numbers and class markings in the C-D-S set. Current plan is to transfer them to decal film, then cut them out of the decal film and do things that way. If I didn't have Geezer Goggles, I couldn't do this. For piecing together end numbers and class markings I have to go to the second magnification level. But, that's better than my ability to get the dry transfer in the cracks and crevices. Dave Freshwater ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Greg Johnson Subject: RE: [PRR] Where's The Beef? Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:21:56 -0500 Content-Length: 1544 Barry, Thanks for the lead. I went to the Accurail magazine index site and found the article: "Last Stand of Stock Cars in the East", RMC, January, 1993. Now all I need to do is find a copy of the magazine! Regards, Greg Johnson -----Original Message----- From: BPX29@aol.com [SMTP:BPX29@aol.com] Sent: Monday, August 24, 1998 9:33 PM To: gjohn195@swbell.net Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Where's The Beef? Greg, Have you seen that article called "Last of the Eastern Stock cars" in RMC? It has the history of Pennsy's hot stock trains in the 50's-Conrail era, and notes on the various K class cars. I have the issue around somewhere, but I'd taken it to work to make a copy and now I don't know where in hades it is. maybe somebody on the list knows the issue I'm talking about. Barry Peltier ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 02:42:45 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Micro-trains coal cars Content-Length: 426 Right - and their sets include one with the "Coal Goes to War" slogan ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 2:22:12 -0500 From: "Laird, Bill (GWise)" Subject: Re: [PRR] Where's The Beef? -Reply Content-Length: 1866 Date: 08/25/1998 02:14 am (Tuesday) From: Bill Laird To: INET.MAIL("PRR-Talk@dsop.com") Subject: Re: [PRR] Where's The Beef? -Reply >>> Ed at PRR-Talk@dsop.com 08/24/98 10:45pm wrote>>> A search of the Model Train Magazine Index by keyword "stockcar" at http://www.accurail.com/tm.htm show's the article "The Last Stand of the Stock Cars in the East" Model Railroad Craftsman January, 1993, pg 101 It also lists the article "Building Pennsy's Cattle Pullmans" Mainline Modeler August 1995, pg 74 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A search of the DataTrain article index by keyword "stockcar" resulted in the following Pennsy specific articles on stockcars in addition to what Ed already listed. Rebuilt X-24 Boxcars PRR Class K7a Mainline Modeler, March 1989, p 42 PRR Open Top Stockcars Railroad Model Craftsman, May 1973, p 24 PRR 40' Wagon Top Class X31b Model Railroader, June 1966, p 32 PRR Class K11 Stockcars Model Railroader, June 1996, p 30 PRR Stockcar #64838 Prototype Drawing Model Railroader, March 1959, p 60 PRR Stockcar #32540 HO Scratchbuilt Railroad Model Craftsman, January 1955, p 30 And a series of general information on railroad stockcars which appeared in Mainline Modeler June - Aug 1990. June 1990, Part 1 - Their Development and Use July 1990, Part 2- Their Use in the East Aug 1990, Part 3 - Their Development and Use, Conclusion Bill Laird ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 05:30:45 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Where's The Beef? Content-Length: 972 In a message dated 98-08-24 18:44:22 EDT, Greg Johnson wrote: > 4) Did similar trains run over the panhandle into Pittsburg? This is the PRR "NAME" Stock Trains: The Bison – Live Stock-Perishable – Buffalo to Seaboard Cities Man O'War – Live Stock – Chicago to Seaboard Cities Spark Plug - Live Stock-Perishable – Cincinnati to Pittsburg and Seaboard Cities The Greyhound – Live Stock – E. St. Louis to Seaboard Cities The Thoroughbred - Live Stock - Indianapoils to Pittsburg and Seaboard Cities The Premier - Live Stock - Pittsburg to Seaboard Cities Harold Modeling the Middle Division in 1916 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 07:27:01 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Interchange, Norfolk Content-Length: 1979 In a message dated 8/24/98 6:11:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, staffsgtyork@juno.com writes: > If you are interested in the Norfolk & Portsmouth Belt Line, the PRR > shared ownership of the road with the N&W, ACL, SAL, Southern, Norfolk > Southern Railway, and the C&O According to a bio of Alexander Johnston Cassatt (End of the Line by Patricia Davis), Cassatt was the prime organizer of the NYP&N. Once the boat link was organized (into Little Ferry?), Cassatt organized the Belt Line and offered the above roads' predecessors equal shares in the Belt at cost. This offer was accepted quickly -- Cassatt was not at that point a PRR official, but was on the Pennsy board. BTW, the book details the 17-year period when Cassatt left the PRR's employment after being passed over for President. The NYP&N was a pet project of his in those years, and was not PRR-owned in his lifetime. But when he was 60, Frank Thompson died suddenly after about 2 years in office, and A.J. was drafted into the presidency by his fellow PRR board members. He then ramrodded the extension into New York City along with other major improvements, but died himself before Penn Station New York opened. Following Cassatt's death in 1906, a statue of him was placed in Penn Station (which somebody once wrote was the biggest affront in history to the power of the Vanderbilt family). And, following the subject of Norfolk, ownership of the NYP&N was purchased by the PRR from his family, I believe for 3 million dollars. Rick Tipton Who thinks "boating on the Chesapeake" took guts -- I've seen that water. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] RailFest Date: Tue, 25 Aug 98 07:54:18 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1509 Carl, others: I am indeed going to make RailFest in Altoona on Oct. 3 (Saturday). I hope to see many of you there. I will be bringing my all-but-6-year-old daughter along, as part of her birthday present...now how did I manage that! 8-) Though Carl is planning for the group to take a later excursion, we will be on the 11:40 train. We're Penn State fans (no flames, please) and we've got a big game -- away -- at Ohio State that day, at 12 noon. We plan to arrive real early to park behind the shopping center so we can set up the TV and tailgate while watching trains after the excursion. Now that's living!!! We will join the group for dinner at Hoss's, tentatively set for 7 p.m. My continued thanks to Carl for his efforts to organize "PRR-Talk"ers for this event. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] AccuRail 55 Ton PRR Hoppers From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 98 08:27:41 -0400 Content-Length: 815 Jerry (and the list), My apologies for misleading info. I was thinking of the Stewart 55t fishbelly hopper, which are N&W. The Accurail cars are accurate USRA 55t cars which were rare to the point of extinction on the PRR, But I suppose could be a stand-in for a GLA. However, if you want GLA's I would suggest trying the Westerfield sale or kitbash a Bowser H21 by cutting out the center 2 hoppers. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrew Harmantas" Subject: Re: [PRR] Where's The Beef? Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 07:09:03 PDT Content-Length: 1352 > I am looking for information on the PRR "meat train" that ran from > Chicago to New York, train NY-4 I believe. __________________________________ The single most significant memory of these trains is--they STANK! Literally. Peeeeeyoouuuu! Woe unto the poor railfan or photographer when at trackside, one of these fast running trains swept by. Man oh man, was that ugly. Made my eyes water. OK, as to the question. The last one I saw in the early 1960's was pulled by former passenger E7's, with stock cars lettered for the CB&Q, C&NW, Pennsy, and maybe others. Some of the Burlington cars were Chinese Red. My eyes begin to water just thinking back to the experience. Ever been downwind from a feed lot? Andrew Harmantas, SPF, waiting to see the trains at C&O Milepst FM Zero. Nothing moving today but the surf from the approaching hurricane. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:11:12 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers passenger cars Content-Length: 725 BPX29@aol.com wrote: > > Well, I've heard rumors that the owner of , is it Keil-Line, > has the old dies. The Walthers tooling punched the windows individually, and probably rolled the rivets and belt rails, etc. They could make up any arrangement desired, subject to the available punches. BTW, they also sold blank sides - no windows. Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:15:57 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers passenger cars Content-Length: 716 The Walthers passenger cars were 99% wood. So there cannot be any dies except for a few detail parts which appeared to be spun cast lead. Spin casting lead is no longer viable because of EPA regulations. I have several of these cars in my collection and have looked everywhere I have been for more. They are very rare in unbuilt condition. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:28:36 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Where's The Beef? Content-Length: 482 I think I can still smell the last stock car train that passed me along the Phila. main line in the late 50's or early 60's. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Interchange, Norfolk Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 13:13:16 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 1020 On 24 Aug, staffsgtyork@juno.com wrote: > If you are interested in the Norfolk & Portsmouth Belt Line, the PRR > shared ownership of the road with the N&W, ACL, SAL, Southern, Norfolk > Southern Railway, and the C&O. [ ... ] Did this line have any of its own revenue freight cars in interchange service? In other words, can we run them on our PRR layouts, even if we don't model the tidewater? Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "tqpj6" Subject: [PRR] Back from PR Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 12:42:58 -0500 Content-Length: 578 Well, my all expenses paid work/vacation to Puerto Rico from the US Army is over. Back to same crap different day routine. Drew, thanks for all the great info. Haven't digested it yet but I hope to this weekend. MAC ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 11:00:06 -0700 From: Roger Kirkpatrick Subject: [PRR] Cabin Cars Content-Length: 889 Hi, I have PRR 477231/CR 46163R listed in 2 places: Carlisle, OH, across from 453 Park Drive, and Ephrata, PA, Doll House Express, Rt 272. The car showed up in Carlilse a bit over a year ago and was reported in Ephrata several years ago. This would allow for it to be the Ephrata car sold and moved to Ohio 1 to 1.5 years ago. Anyone know? Also reported at Ephrata is CR 23210, ex-PRR 478030. However, the CR caboose page indicates CR 23210 was PRR 478201? How about an opinion on this one? Thanks, Roger ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 11:14:49 -0700 From: Roger Kirkpatrick Subject: [PRR] Cabin Car(s) Content-Length: 861 Hi, Another cabin car in 2 places: PRR 477656?/CR 22824, Museum, Maybrook, NY, and PRR 477656/CR 22824/OVHX 1014, Casey's Caboose Stop, Titusville, PA. I have questions about several of the CR numbers reported for the Titusville cars so suspect if one of these numbers is incorrect it is in Titusville. However, the Maybrook number may be in error or the car sold to Titusville. Can anyone confirm which place is correct or the correct numbers for the 2 locations? Thanks, Roger ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] TAN: Your Ideas For Monthly Specials Date: Tue, 25 Aug 98 15:08:32 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1347 We're in the third month of "Monthly Specials" through "Merchandise Service" where your model railroading purchases support this list. The results are beginning to pay off, with numerous folks taking advantage of the specials on Morning Sun Books (July) and now Tichy (August). (Not to mention the Westerfield promo which runs through 12/31 while supplies last.) I'm looking for suggestions on what brands you'd like to see for future monthly specials. Please reply direct, and not to the list. Thanks. The complete list of available vendors is on the "Merchandise Service" web site at http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/ ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:54:50 -0500 From: Greg Johnson Subject: [PRR] Kato engines Content-Length: 665 I am looking for a Kato PRR SD-40 and two PRR GP-35's. Does anyone have these surplus in their inventory or know where I might find them. I do have some PRR brass steam if someone is interested in a trade. If this message is too much off topic, I apologize. Thanks, Greg Johnson gjohn195@swbell.net ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:17:47 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers passenger cars Content-Length: 537 Rich, You must be thinking of an older series of walthers cars than I am. The cars made in the 50's-60's had stamped sides with cast ends and details. Thanks for the input. B.P. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 07:39:44 -0400 From: "s.a. mccall" Subject: [PRR] hobby shops Content-Length: 659 Greetings, Here is a web site that has listings for all known hobby shops which carry model RR equipment. Thought this might be of interest. http://www.mcs.net/~weyand/www/tractronics/hobby_shops/hobby_shops.html Sincerely, HOSAM HO models by SAM 4094 Carrsville Hwy Franklin, Va. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:51:58 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Kato engines From: staffsgtyork@juno.com (David W. York) Content-Length: 841 Dear Greg, I don't have a complete Kato GP 35, but I do have a complete undecorated shell and handrails. Willing to sell if you find a Kato with the wrong road name. The shells are near impossible to strip. Lemme know! SSGT York _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:55:58 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Interchange, Norfolk From: staffsgtyork@juno.com (David W. York) Content-Length: 1337 On Tue, 25 Aug 1998 13:13:16 -0400 Dennis Rockwell writes: >On 24 Aug, staffsgtyork@juno.com wrote: >> If you are interested in the Norfolk & Portsmouth Belt Line, the PRR shared ownership of the road with the N&W, >ACL, SAL, Southern, Norfolk Southern Railway, and the C&O. [ ... ] > >Did this line have any of its own revenue freight cars in >interchange service? In other words, can we run them on our >PRR layouts, even if we don't model the tidewater? > >Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA DENNIS-- TO MY KNOWLEDGE THE ONLY CARS OWNED BY N&PBL WERE CABOOSES. THEY SERVED AS A BRIDGE LINE FOR ALL THE OTHER ROAD'S REVENUE CARS IN THE AREA. THANKS SSGT YORK _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:20:46 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Interchange, Norfolk From: staffsgtyork@juno.com (David W. York) Content-Length: 1834 RICK, THANKS FOR THE INPUT ON CASSATT! DIDN'T KNOW THAT HE ORGANIZED THE N&PBL. KNEW HE DID THE OL' NIP AND N. THE INTERLOCKING TOWER GUARDING THE SWING BRIDGE OVER THE POCOMOKE RIVER IN POCOMOKE MARYLAND (EASTERN SHORE, DELMARVA PENINSULA BELOW SALISBURY) IS NAMED CASSATT TOWER. IT GUARDS THE INTERCHANGE AREA WHERE CONRAIL AND THE EASTERN SHORE RAILROAD MEET TODAY. I BELIEVE IT IS NOT IN USE, BUT STANDING--AND LOOKS TO BE IN GREAT SHAPE. IT IS ALSO A LITTLE DECORATIVE--LOVE THE ROOF LINE ON IT! BELIEVE THAT WAS CASSATT'S INFLUENCE AS WELL. THE NYP&N WENT TO DELMAR, DELAWARE, WHERE UNTIL 1957 THE STATION IN THAT TOWN WAS FRENCH CHATEAU IN STYLE. HIS PREFERENCE, MAYBE? FOR THOSE INTERESTED, A BOOK ON THE NORFOLK AND PORTSMOUTH BELT LINE HISTORY WILL BE OUT IN SEPTEMBER. SHOULD TELL ALL ABOUT ITS PENNSY INFLUENCED LIFE. IF INTERESTED, CONTACT MR. W. HUGH MOOMAW, 113 DITCHLEY ROAD, VIRGINIA BEACH, VA 23451. THE MEN WHO ARE PRODUCING THE DECALS FOR THE BELT LINE ARE ALSO PRODUCING A BOOK COVERING THE BELT LINE FROM A MODELING POINT OF VIEW. SHOULD COVER THE PRR INTERCHANGES. THE LITTLE LINE USES VIRGINIAN TRACKAGE, AND WOULD MAKE SOME PRETTY NEAT "SCALE" RAILFANNING! SSGT YORK _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:28:29 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Interchange, Norfolk From: staffsgtyork@juno.com (David W. York) Content-Length: 2185 On Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:32:41 -0400 (EDT) bubbles@visi.net writes: > I've sent Jerry the first couple of parts for my "Hobo's guide" section for his site on the Delmarva operation. Hes >waiting for me to get what roster information i have sent to him,then hes going to put it in the "Hobo's guide" >under the Delmarva. I'll let you know when he gets it up. WHICH ROSTER ARE YOU WORKING ON? DELMARVA'S PRR? I CAN WORK OUT SOME INFO ON THE N&PBL FORMER PRR ENGINES AND CABINS IF NEEDED. PLEASE DO LET ME KNOW WHEN JERRY'S LIST IS DONE. I HAVE TO USE SOMEONE ELSE'S COMPUTER TO USE THE INTERNET, AND IT WILL GIVE ME THE "HIGH BALL" TO "INTERCHANGE" WITH HIS WEB SITE. Did you know that A.J. Cassatt had a lot to do > with forming the N-P Belt line? Also its one of the few Pennsy > era associated lines that > 1. Are still operating. > 2. Are still in the original name that it was chartered in. > > Also it is interesting that it is still part owned by the two >railroads > that were formed from the original companies that set it up (except > the PRR) I DIDN'T KNOW ALL THAT, BUT IT IS BEING ENTERED INTO MY ARCHIVES AS WE SPEAK. THANKS! SSGT YORK PS-DID I MENTION THAT LAST TIME I WENT TO DELMARVA EARLY THIS MONTH, THAT I SAW THE OLD SWING BRIDGE IN SEAFORD DELAWARE ON THE CONRAIL MAINLINE? IT WAS BUILT IN THE 1890'S, PROBABLY BY THE PRR (WILL HAVE TO ASK THE HISTORIAN WHO SHOWED IT TO ME). WHILE I WAS THERE, THE BRIDGE KEEPER CLOSED THE GAP FOR A SCHEDULED TRAIN. BOY--THEY DON'T BUILD 'EM LIKE THAT ANYMORE! _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "tqpj6" Subject: [PRR] two quick questions Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:31:57 -0500 Content-Length: 701 On page 47 of vol 20, no4, winter 87 of the keystone the top photo is of hopper 717564. Is this an H21 like those IDd in the photo on page 47. secondly, Im trying to find make up's/consits of freights EK-1 and EK-2. That ran from erie to kane on the renovo division. Any help or ideas would be appreciated. thanks SSG McWilliams ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] TAN: Site Crippled Date: Wed, 26 Aug 98 11:54:25 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 971 Please keep list traffic at a minimum until further notice. I had a communications hardware failure last night and am currently operating at only 14.4K. I have taken web and ftp service offline until bandwidth is restored to what it was (or better!). Only list and mail traffic is passing at this time. Please be patient. Thank you. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@dsop.com "Keystone Crossings" http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space available at http://www.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:22:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Where's The Beef? Content-Length: 1476 On Mon, 24 Aug 1998 PRRSignals@aol.com wrote: > > gjohn195@swbell.net writes: > > > > I am looking for information on the PRR "meat train" that ran from > > Chicago to New York, train NY-4 I believe. My interest is in that train > > during the 1966-early PC period. I have just posted the schedule for NY-4 as it appears in my 1960 freight schedule binder. > ***I recall the C N Y -4 on the NY Div end; in latter days, TT-4 had stock > head out, also, for better handling.** My set of schedules (1960, again) list a CNY-2, but no CNY-4. > 4) Did similar trains run over the panhandle into Pittsburg? I know there was another response to this question. A quick search for the word "stock" lists the following trains (for train schedules ***typed in***): CIN-2 CV-60 FW-8 TT-2 TT-4 TT-6 W-2 WC-2 The search is exhaustive for train symbols starting with T through Z, as these letters are complete. Stuff beforehand is not exhaustive right now. CHeck back with me later, or request specific trains to be typed in sooner if you have more/better information. -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gripp, William [NCSUS]" Subject: RE: [PRR] hobby shops Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:46:27 -0400 Content-Length: 1575 Take this list as a decent start. I looked over the NJ section and found shops out of business over a year still there, hobby shops that don't carry RR stuff there, a shop that has moved with its old address and phone number, missing shops, and a mail order only outfit listed. As I said, a good start but don't take all this info as "gospel" > ---------- > From: s.a. mccall[SMTP:hosam@amaze.net] > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 1998 7:39 AM > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] hobby shops > > > Greetings, > > Here is a web site that has listings for all known hobby shops which > carry model RR equipment. Thought this might be of interest. > > http://www.mcs.net/~weyand/www/tractronics/hobby_shops/hobby_shops.html > Sincerely, > > > HOSAM > HO models by SAM > 4094 Carrsville Hwy > Franklin, Va. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:54:05 -0500 From: bobp@tsc.com (Bob Poortinga) Subject: [PRR] Hobart, IN station photos Content-Length: 597 Several people inquired about my photos of the Hobart, IN station. I scanned them and threw together a quick and dirty web page at: http://www.tsc.com/~bobp/hobart -- Bob Poortinga (mailto:bobp@tsc.com) Bloomington, Indiana USA ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] TAN: Site Status - Let's Talk! Date: Thu, 27 Aug 98 06:34:19 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 968 I'm still limping along at 14.4K...replacement hardware due later today. Web and FTP service remains down. However, the listserv has performed admirably at this speed and the queue has been empty. (Perhaps I should always run the list at 14.4!!!) Anyway, go ahead and resume normal list conversation. Thanks for your cooperation. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@dsop.com "Keystone Crossings" http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space available at http://www.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 03:57:22 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: RE: [PRR] hobby shops Content-Length: 1021 === Same story in western Pennsylvania, but it looks more like "over two years". Note also that some of the shops listed are very specialized, such as "Lionel only" or "garden railways only". ---"Gripp, William [NCSUS]" wrote: > > Take this list as a decent start. I looked over the NJ section and found > shops out of business over a year still there, >http://www.mcs.net/~weyand/www/tractronics/hobby_shops/hobby_shops.html Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] BP20 Passenger Sharks Date: Thu, 27 Aug 98 07:57:34 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1333 Just want to pass along the "good news" that "Merchandise Service" has been approved as a dealer for Miracle Castings...the company coming out with the BP20 Passenger Shark bodies. I have an eval unit on order and will pass along info ASAP. The shell is designed to work with an Athearn PA mechanism. I will be offering both plain shells and a bundle with the PA mechanism. Though the web site is down at the moment, more information will be available at http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html Thank you for your ongoing support of "Merchandise Service", which benefits the lists served by DSOP.COM. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Penn Station NY From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 98 08:53:49 -0400 Content-Length: 1485 When first built, Penn Station's lower level (for arriving passengers) did not extend over the tracks at the west side of the station. The earliest fotos show that one could stand at the west side gates and look down two stories to the track. At some point this lower level was extended west. Fotos during WWII show this exposed lower level mezzanine being used as a marshaling site for service men. In all my personal recollection of the station when I was a child, I recall the lower level extending this way to the west end of the station and covering the tracks. When was this west end extension built? Did it coincide with the overhead wire being strung? I imagine that once high voltage wire was hung over the tracks, the safety mavens were horrified at the thought that patrons on the lower level were just a few feet from the exposed wire! The early fotos of the open west end all show third rail operation only. Neither Middleton's book (Manhattan Gateway), nor Deihl's book (The Late Great Penn Sta), nor Westing's book, address this topic. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 09:12:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: [PRR] PRR Diesel Locomotive Pictorial Volume 4: seen it? Content-Length: 649 Ever since Dan Cupper told us of its impending publication I've been keeping my eyes open for this, but I've not yet seen it, nor does Walthers (or Amazon, for that matter) list it even with an expected delivery. Anyone seen it yet, or should I just be being more patient? ;-) -D ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Aug 98 9:34:52 EDT From: Subject: re: [PRR] PRR Diesel Locomotive Pictorial Volume 4: seen it? Content-Length: 1672 Derrick, Got a copy of this book directly from Dan about 2 months ago. Its excellent! He told me when I picked it up that the museum at Altoona carried it and possibly the museum in Strasburg. He also mentioned that it might be possible to purchase it directly from the publisher who lives in Halifax, PA. If your interested I'll look at the copy tonight and get the name and address of the publisher. Let me know. If you like Sharks (passenger & freight) this is the book for you!!!! Also covers Centipedes and center cab units. Kris ------------- Original Text From: Derrick J Brashear , on 8/27/98 9:12 AM: Ever since Dan Cupper told us of its impending publication I've been keeping my eyes open for this, but I've not yet seen it, nor does Walthers (or Amazon, for that matter) list it even with an expected delivery. Anyone seen it yet, or should I just be being more patient? ;-) -D ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 09:35:23 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Diesel Locomotive Pictorial Volume 4: seen it? Content-Length: 895 In a message dated 8/27/98 8:18:38 AM Central Daylight Time, shadow@DEMENTIA.ORG writes: << Anyone seen it yet, or should I just be being more patient? ;-) >> If you are referring to the Withers book on Baldwin covered wagons, they quickly sold out the few they had at their booth at Kansas City and Walthers acts like they don't know it is on its way when I stop by there. I had seen one at a dealer at KC and went back to get it and it had been sold as well :-(. A long distribution channel at work, I guess. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:06:15 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Diesel Locomotive Pictorial Volume 4: seen it? Content-Length: 1212 Derrick J Brashear wrote: > > Ever since Dan Cupper told us of its impending publication I've been > keeping my eyes open for this, but I've not yet seen it, nor does Walthers > (or Amazon, for that matter) list it even with an expected delivery. > > Anyone seen it yet, or should I just be being more patient? ;-) > > -D > Derrick: Jack Hahn's PRR diesel pictorial Volume 4, Baldwin road and transfer units, has been out since June. Several PRR-Talk folks stopped by the Withers Publishing table at the RR Museum of Pa.'s "PRR Days" and bought it there. It was also sold at the NMRA show in Kansas City. If you have trouble finding it locally around your area, you can always call Withers Publishing direct at 717-896-3173. Operators are standing by . . . [OK, OK, make that *operator,* not *operators* :-0 ] Dan Cupper ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] hobby shops Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:18:38 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 1188 On 27 Aug, robert netzlof wrote: > Same story in western Pennsylvania, but it looks more > like "over two years". Note also that some of the > shops listed are very specialized, such as "Lionel > only" or "garden railways only". > > ---"Gripp, William [NCSUS]" wrote: > > > > Take this list as a decent start. I looked over > > the NJ section and found > > shops out of business over a year still there, > > >http://www.mcs.net/~weyand/www/tractronics/hobby_shops/hobby_shops.html Yes? And how many of these corrections have you sent to Rich, via the email address shown on the page? Hmm? Then, who do we have to blame for this? Eh? I would suggest that everybody take the time to review this list for the shops and/or areas you know about, and send in corrections. Dennis ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Aug 98 10:28:22 EDT From: Subject: [PRR] Euro- Rails baldwin Shark Content-Length: 1005 The October edition of MR contains a picture of the Euro-Rails RF-16 Shark intended for release in the future. IMHO it looks exactly like the Model Power version except the number boards can be back lit and there's some kind of 'thing' in the pilot opening. It has the same old 'clunky' grab irons, the fuel tank will need some work, the air horns should be tossed, the rear-side door needs to be recessed, its missing sand hatch fillers on the pilot, etc, etc, etc. But at least it should be readily available. Wonder what the drive mechanism will be like. I hope the upcoming BP-20 Sharks will have better details. Kris ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:57:32 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Penn Station NY Content-Length: 885 In a message dated 8/27/98 5:59:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time, asmiller@mail11.mitre.org writes: << er level were just a few feet from the exposed wire! The early fotos of the open west end all show third rail operation only. Neither Middleton's book (Manhattan Gateway), nor Deihl's book (The Late Great Penn Sta), nor Westing's book, address this topic. Regards, >> ***Good question, Andy. I checked Burgess & Kennedy and Middleton's "..Steam Roads Electrified"...no help there, either. Good luck !..Bill** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gripp, William [NCSUS]" Subject: [PRR] FS: HO brass - PRR Steam Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:43:35 -0400 Content-Length: 670 Have the following surplus brass HO PRR steam locos: PFM PRR L1 2-8-2 $250 Gem PRR 0-8-0 $250 Westside PRR D16sh 4-4-0 $300 Alco PRR N2sa 2-10-2 painted $300 Interested parties please email wgripp@ncsus.jnj.com Bill Gripp wgripp@ncsus.jnj.com wgripp@prius.jnj.com (908) 429-6118 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:36:34 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] Announcements Content-Length: 947 Hello folks... I have two announcements to make... First of all a while back i sent Model Railroader magazine the link to "Keystone Crossings" and today i noticed that they have included it as one of there links (under prototype info i think) Secondly i learned from Chuck Blardone today that the plans i drew up of the B&P Jct. and Union Jct. towers at Baltimore Md. will be published in the winter issue of the "Keystone". Have fun Til Later Hank Mummert ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:25:47 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Euro- Rails baldwin Shark Content-Length: 645 In a message dated 8/27/98 10:23:52 AM Central Daylight Time, kkollar@PAMDT.ANG.AF.MIL writes: << Wonder what the drive mechanism will be like. >> As I previously posted, I had them take the hood off at KC. It has a 5-pole skew-wound motor and has a DCC socket. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:52:49 -0400 From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin Cars Content-Length: 1520 Howdy all, Roger, I'll be up in Ephrata next week ( Monday ) I thought I had a picture of it, but I don't. It was the one over in Chambersburg - N5C number 477951. More later.. cos Roger Kirkpatrick wrote: > Hi, > > I have PRR 477231/CR 46163R listed in 2 places: > > Carlisle, OH, across from 453 Park Drive, and > > Ephrata, PA, Doll House Express, Rt 272. > > The car showed up in Carlilse a bit over a year ago and was reported in > Ephrata several years ago. This would allow for it to be the Ephrata > car sold and moved to Ohio 1 to 1.5 years ago. Anyone know? > > Also reported at Ephrata is CR 23210, ex-PRR 478030. However, the CR > caboose page indicates CR 23210 was PRR 478201? How about an opinion on > this one? > > Thanks, Roger > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:21:35 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] R/T chat Content-Length: 646 Hi.. In case anyone wants to chat with folks in a R/T like chat and you have ICQ here is a place i found for chat. http://jerseyrails.railfan.net/chat.htm have fun... Til Later Hank M. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 1:06:07 -0500 From: "Laird, Bill (GWise)" Subject: [PRR] PRR Diesel Locomotive Pictorial Volume 4: seen it? -Reply Content-Length: 1321 Date: 08/27/1998 11:22 am (Thursday) From: Bill Laird To: INET.MAIL("PRR-Talk@dsop.com") Subject: [PRR] PRR Diesel Locomotive Pictorial Volume 4: seen it? -Reply I picked up a copy at my local Hobby Shop a couple of weeks ago. Bill Laird >>> PRR-Talk@dsop.com 08/27/98 08:12am >>> Ever since Dan Cupper told us of its impending publication I've been keeping my eyes open for this, but I've not yet seen it, nor does Walthers (or Amazon, for that matter) list it even with an expected delivery. Anyone seen it yet, or should I just be being more patient? ;-) -D ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRSignals@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 02:11:07 EDT Subject: [PRR] The Autumn KEYSTONE Crossword #6.... Content-Length: 670 *****In the new KEYSTONE, my Crossword ( #6) is about the Northern Central. It contains one factual error; discovered RIGHT after printing, of course. A free spare copy of the magazine to the first one that finds it, and emails me..!!! Our many NCL fans should find it immediately. ...Enjoy it, Bill**** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] C&O hoppers in interchange? Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:14:58 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 1473 Greetings! As some of you may know, in my early days of modelling PRR, I acquired a twelve-pack of offset quad hoppers, uniquely numbered and painted for PRR (Con-Cor, N Scale). Well, as we all know (now :-), PRR only ever had one (1) offset-side hopper. I have been looking for decal sheets to repaint some or all of these, and now that Microscale has come out with sheet 1045 (C&O markings for these and other hoppers), I was wondering if the PRR carried many of these hoppers. I have been looking at the meager set of photos in the books I have, and I don't see any C&O hoppers. Berwick, sure. NYC, even. But no C&O. Can anybody tell me or point me to a source to discover whether the PRR carried C&O hoppers in any volume? If not, does anybody want twelve C&O offset quads? I'm unwilling to sell them still marked PRR. Thanks! Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:21:09 -0400 From: Elliot Fishbein and/or Eileen Kolbasuk Subject: [PRR] loco data Content-Length: 1334 Hello folks, I need some help from someone who knows more than I do. (That probably includes just about everybody on this list.) I am looking for plans, drawings, photos of the following classes of LIRR locomotives, which I believe are all PRR standard designs: H-10 - What class of tender was used on the LIRR? I have some photos, and I still don't know what it is. G-5 - Again, what I really need is info on the tenders. I know the one I'm after is 110P82A, but what are the dimensions? C-51 - This is the one I'm really after. I have no data other than driver size and that they didn't have Belpaire fireboxes. I already have the three volumes by Ziel and the Morrison collection. I've seen listings for books called Pennsy Power (vols 1 and 2). Would either of these books have what I'm looking for? Are there other sources of information that I've not found? Thanks in advance. Elliot Fishbein ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 17:16:51 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: [pcl] New line of heavyweight passenger cars Content-Length: 1385 I picked up the following message on the Passenger Car List: > There is a company working on a new line of HO scale heavyweight Pullman > Company passenger cars. This company, which I can not name at this time, > will > be seeking information shortly for this project. These cars will be done > with > the same level of detail and accuracy that we have grown used to and demand > in > our freight cars. Interiors will also be available as well. > > So, if you have access to material that may be of interest to this company > please let me know and I will relay this information to the company. > > This is not a hoax. The contract for this project is but signed and the > early > research has been done. > > More on this as it becomes available and I am told that it is OK to say more. > > > Please, don't ask for any additional information because I can not and will > not provide it at this time. > > Denis F. Blake > Harold Modeling the Middle Division (1916) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Passenger Ops at Harrisburg -- new page! Date: Fri, 28 Aug 98 18:08:12 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1465 I'm pleased to unveil a new series of pages at "KC". Go to the Passenger Operations section (http://kc.pennsyrr.com/passops/) and you'll find my latest project, "24 Hours at Harrisburg", which chronicles 24 hours of movements at the Harrisburg passenger station. It includes all of the info from the Form 4 for Sept. 28, 1954. The Form 4 was released on the 26th, a Sunday, and I wanted the first day free of special weekend schedules, so I used Tuesday! The Overview page explains my sources and those yet to be entered. IMHO, it's pretty neat. Enjoy, and let me know your thoughts... The site is still running "crippled" at 14.4K, but the web server is running and these pages load pretty fast (surprisingly) as they are text only. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Paintloco@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 18:24:53 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] two quick questions Content-Length: 977 Sir, In 1949- 1951 power for EK-1 and EK-2 was usually an I1s. In my records I have the dates and actual engine numbers for specific runs of these trains from a fireman's timebook who worked out of Erie. EK-1 ran to Kane from Erie, laid up over night, and returned the next day as EK-2, usually with the same crew I model this train in my 1946 operating session on my Renovo and E&A Division PRR HO railroad. I run it in sections as traffic warrents. I also run W-5, W-2, EP-1, EP-2, the EW's, the BEC's and the passenger trains that ran then; 580/581; 970/971; 980/981, and 415/474 on the E&A. Don Murphy ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 23:32:40 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: [pcl] Re: New line of heavyweight passenger cars Content-Length: 1449 PC Folks, This sounds like great news. There hasn't been a full line of heavyweight sleepers since the days of the Walthers kits, and those were, well, dated, much as I've always liked them. But as the potential builder of these new cars seems to have specified Pullman, could I offer my own wish list? How about some of the popular types that were seen literally coast to coast , but never mass produced such as the 8s-5db, 8s-lounge and 6s-6db? Other good candidates might be the diner and parlor, and for that matter a good standard coach. The only full length heavyweight I can think of is the AHM/IHC/Rivarossi car and that model is far from a common design, at least by the 1940's. I feel that any cars offered should have interchangable roofs for sure for A/C or not versions. Far as underbody detail goes, could this be somewhat optional for the obvious differences of A/C again and the fact that many modellers won't want to pay for something they won't install? In any event, this is a very exciting possibility and I look forward to hearing more. Barry Peltier ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 00:16:52 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] C&O hoppers in interchange? Content-Length: 801 In a message dated 8/28/98 1:31:33 PM Central Daylight Time, dennis@bbn.com writes: << Can anybody tell me or point me to a source to discover whether the PRR carried C&O hoppers in any volume? >> It may take me a while to get the exact locations, because I'll have to go through a lot of videos (a fun job, but time consuming) , but I seem to recall lots of C&O, N&W, and some L&N hoppers on lines west of Pittsburgh. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] two quick questions Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 00:05:06 -0500 Content-Length: 1528 SSG McWilliams--The photo in the Keystone Vol 20 No. 4 is an H21. Another good source for car number info is Rob's Pennsy home page at http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=H21 . This particular page has all the H21 info on it. Enjoy! Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL -----Original Message----- From: tqpj6 To: PRR-TALK Date: Friday, August 28, 1998 11:00 AM Subject: [PRR] two quick questions >On page 47 of vol 20, no4, winter 87 of the keystone the top photo is of >hopper 717564. Is this an H21 like those IDd in the photo on page 47. > >secondly, Im trying to find make up's/consits of freights EK-1 and EK-2. >That ran from erie to kane on the renovo division. Any help or ideas would >be appreciated. > >thanks >SSG McWilliams > > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] loco data Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 00:39:11 -0500 Content-Length: 8473 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00BD_01BDD2E5.70B9A400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Elliot--The LIRR used the same tender as the PRR on H10's with stoker, = at least in the 50's. It was 80F70, but I am not sure if the 70, the = deck height, is correct. However, in HO the deck height does not matter = much. I cannot put my hand on it tonight, but I recall a letter or Q = and A in the Keystone that listed all the H9 and H10 tender classes. = This tender is very similar to the tender used most commonly with the = L1, just 1000 gallons of water smaller. If you are close to the Railroad = Museum of Pennsylvania in Strasburg, PRR 7688, an H10 with stoker, has = this tender.=20 For the LIRR G5 tenders, and there were at least three types used, a = good published source is the Keystone Vol 21 No. 1 of Spring 1988. The = article includes several photos of LIRR tenders as well as a table with = numerous dimensions. If you do not have access to the magazine, I would = be happy to forward the dimensions from the chart. Let me know off = line. The Pennsy Power books you mentioned are valuable sources of pictorial = info, but info contained in the captions is often unreliable. They are = not sources for drawing or dimensional data. Not good for technical = data, but interesting, is a softcover book I picked up some years ago, = "Long Island Rail Road Memories," by Richard J. Harrison, a former = engineman on the LIRR. It was published by Quadrant Press,19 West 44th = St, New York, NY, 10036, (212) 490-1622, in 1981, ISBN-0-915276-36-4. Sorry, I can't help with the C51. Enjoy! Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL =20 -----Original Message----- From: Elliot Fishbein and/or Eileen Kolbasuk To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Friday, August 28, 1998 2:45 PM Subject: [PRR] loco data =20 =20 Hello folks, I need some help from someone who knows more than I do. (That = probably includes just about everybody on this list.) =20 I am looking for plans, drawings, photos of the following classes of = LIRR locomotives, which I believe are all PRR standard designs: =20 H-10 - What class of tender was used on the LIRR? I have some = photos, and I still don't know what it is. =20 G-5 - Again, what I really need is info on the tenders. I know the = one I'm after is 110P82A, but what are the dimensions? =20 C-51 - This is the one I'm really after. I have no data other than = driver size and that they didn't have Belpaire fireboxes. =20 I already have the three volumes by Ziel and the Morrison = collection. I've seen listings for books called Pennsy Power (vols 1 and = 2). Would either of these books have what I'm looking for? Are there = other sources of information that I've not found? =20 Thanks in advance. =20 Elliot Fishbein ------------------------------------------------------------------- = Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. = ------------------------------------------------------------------- For = assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to = "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". = ------=_NextPart_000_00BD_01BDD2E5.70B9A400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Elliot--The LIRR used the same = tender as the PRR=20 on H10's with stoker, at least in the 50's.  It was 80F70, but I am = not=20 sure if the 70, the deck height, is correct.  However, in HO the = deck=20 height does not matter much.  I cannot put my hand on it tonight, = but I=20 recall a letter or Q and A in the Keystone that listed all the H9 and = H10 tender=20 classes.  This tender is very similar to the tender used most = commonly with=20 the L1, just 1000 gallons of water smaller. If you are close to the = Railroad=20 Museum of Pennsylvania in Strasburg, PRR 7688, an H10 with stoker, has = this=20 tender.
 
For the LIRR G5 tenders, and there were at least = three types=20 used, a good published source is the Keystone Vol 21 No. 1 of Spring = 1988. =20 The article includes several photos of LIRR tenders as well as a table = with=20 numerous dimensions.  If you do not have access to the magazine, I = would be=20 happy to forward the dimensions from the chart.  Let me know off=20 line.
 
The Pennsy Power books you mentioned are valuable = sources of=20 pictorial info, but info contained in the captions is often = unreliable. =20 They are not sources for drawing or dimensional data.  Not good for = technical data, but interesting, is a softcover book I picked up some = years ago,=20 "Long Island Rail Road Memories," by Richard J. Harrison, a = former=20 engineman on the LIRR.  It was published by Quadrant Press,19 West = 44th St,=20 New York, NY, 10036, (212) 490-1622, in 1981, = ISBN-0-915276-36-4.
 
Sorry, I can't help with the C51. = Enjoy!
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL 
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Elliot Fishbein and/or Eileen Kolbasuk <fishbein@ezaccess.net>
To:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com = <PRR-Talk@dsop.com>
Date:=20 Friday, August 28, 1998 2:45 PM
Subject: [PRR] loco=20 data

Hello folks,
I need some help from = someone who=20 knows more than I do. (That probably includes just about everybody = on this=20 list.)

I am looking for plans, drawings, photos of the = following=20 classes of LIRR locomotives, which I believe are all PRR standard=20 designs:

H-10 - What class of tender was used on the LIRR? I = have=20 some photos, and I still don't know what it is.

G-5 - Again, = what I=20 really need is info on the tenders. I know the one I'm after is = 110P82A, but=20 what are the dimensions?

C-51 - This is the one I'm really = after. I=20 have no data other than driver size and that they didn't have = Belpaire=20 fireboxes.

I already have the three volumes by Ziel and the = Morrison=20 collection. I've seen listings for books called Pennsy Power = (vols 1=20 and 2). Would either of these books have what I'm looking for? Are = there=20 other sources of information that I've not found?

Thanks in=20 advance.

Elliot=20 = Fishbein
-------------------------------------------------------------= ------=20 Join our SPF database at = http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html.=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------- = For=20 assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message=20 "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems = persist,=20 contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------=_NextPart_000_00BD_01BDD2E5.70B9A400-- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963@aol.com Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 05:06:28 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [pcl] New line of heavyweight passenger cars Content-Length: 913 The (mystery) manufacturer is monitoring the Passenger Car List for the level of interest in the new heavyweights. Perhaps PRR Talk should put togeather a list of Pennsy cars we would like to see and post it to that list. Send me your lists of what you would like to see in the way of Pennsy cars and I will compile and edit for duplications then post our list of cars to the Passenger Car LIst. Also what level of detail is desired? Interchangeable roof for AC and Non-AC? Trucks, underbody detail, etc. Harold Modeling the Middle Division ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 10:09:10 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [pcl] New line of heavyweight passenger cars Content-Length: 870 In a message dated 8/29/98 5:11:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Hal6963@aol.com writes: > The (mystery) manufacturer is monitoring the Passenger Car List for the level > of interest in the new heavyweights. Perhaps PRR Talk should put togeather a > list of Pennsy cars we would like to see and post it to that list. Along with heavyweight passenger cars, I would love to see a steel 50' Railway Express Reefer. There is not a passenger train modeler who doesn't need multiples of these. Rick Tipton ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg and Symbol Freights Date: Sat, 29 Aug 98 10:50:17 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1598 I am looking for information -- names, orig/dest, and consist types -- for the following symbol freights which passed through Harrisburg (STATE tower) per the April 1954 ETT: P-17 HPY-2 M-24 TRS-7 ER-3 M-20 HP-1 M-16 NL-7 I am also looking for additional information on the following symbol freights (which also passed through Harrisburg (STATE tower) per the April 1954 ETT), to expand upon what I gleened from the 2/1/52 "Through Freight Trains Between Principal Points": BF-14, "The Cornucopia", Buffalo to Philadelphia (inc. livestock) BNY-16, "The Ontarian", Buffalo to Harsimus Cove BF-3, "The Purple Emporer", Enola to Buffalo Note that Enola is the orig in 1952, but it passes STATE per the '54 ETT All of the above is per the April '54 ETT. I'd really like to update it to the Sept. '54 ETT if I can locate one. Missing are the initial trailer trains (LCL-1, LCL-2, and LCL-7) which started service in June '54. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@dsop.com "Keystone Crossings" http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space available at http://www.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RLA0220@webtv.net (RICHARD ADER) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 11:23:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Passenger cars Content-Length: 1257 I'm sure I am not the only modeler out here who is at the mercy of the manufacturers when it comes to prototype realism. My work limits the time I can spend kitbashing and super detailing rolling stock and pike stuffs to make an exact match to the real thing. Not to mention the expense for the tools in which to perform these tasks, and any physical handicap (eyesight being mine) one might have, we have to depend on companies catering to a specific need (PRR). Unfortunatly most all PRR items are just plain things lettered PRR and not PRR prototype at all thus making our layouts junk in the eyes of SPFs. Therefor if our mystery manufacturer creates realistic equipment, this would be like Santa Claus for guys like me. I would like to see kits of the Limiteds. Either whole sets or individual cars, along with the REA cars Rick Tipton mentioned. Thanks for listening. Rich ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRSignals@aol.com Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 11:41:40 EDT Subject: [PRR] NECorridor speeds... Content-Length: 1896 ***just a quick snap-shot from a bookshelf grab... Our on-line signal group got into discussing the Metroliners from PRR to Atk; Bob worked on them, and I got to watch some early test runs. In discussing Metroliner speeds; as we all know they were capable of higher speeds, and proved it regularly in testing - some of which I witnessed - but these are the ETT Speed Restrictions used for normal operations.... in very general terms: 12/15/72, PC ETT#9 says: Metros ( 8xx) and Test Cars ( T-x) and our own Jersey Arrow I MUs (1xx): MAX = 100 mph, in designated territory. Max for other equipment = 80 mph. almost a decade later........ 10/25/81,Amtrak ETT#3 says: MAX = 110 mph, and equipment determines what top speed you may go...Metros ONLY =110 mph, most MUs =100 mph, GG1s and E60s= 80 mph, AEM-7 = 125 mph. And car equipment...Amfleet = 125 mph, many coaches = 105 mph, down to CR Cabin car # 18747 = 25 mph. hahahha....NOT used on Metro...!!! Then the push begins to utilize those AEM-7 higher speed capabilities.... Also, a note about in "....NJ. Permananent Speed Restriction Signs, displaying black numerals on rectangular yellow background....will be located at braking distance in advance of the restriction."...< for my dry N.E. pal, .Steve B..> By the 1990s, we got wider use of that 125 mph limit for AEM-7s and Amfleet equipment as the best track territories were rated for 125 mph, max. VERY HARD to try to qualify @ 125 mph.........all a blurrrrrrrrrrr....Bill*** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 12:29:21 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [pcl] New line of heavyweight passenger cars Content-Length: 802 Rick, Amen to the 50' steel REA reefer. I've written to I don't know how many companies suggesting this, including Athearn for inclusion in their Genesis line. They sent a polite, but nebulous reply, but who knows? Someone, someday will have to put this car out. The Ambroid kits that I have are enjoyable projects, but I'm afraid it's harder to make wood look than steel than it is for plastic to look like steel. Oh well. Barry Peltier ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 15:25:00 EDT Subject: [PRR] Head end equiptment Content-Length: 666 To the people waiting for a REA 50' express reefer your patience will be rewarded within a year with a plastic rendition. I've been told it will include the correct trucks. Good things come to those who wait so I've been told. Also waiting , Ken McCorry ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 16:03:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Head end equiptment Content-Length: 847 On Sat, 29 Aug 1998 KEMACPRR@aol.com wrote: > To the people waiting for a REA 50' express reefer your patience will be > rewarded within a year with a plastic rendition. I've been told it will > include the correct trucks. Good things come to those who wait so I've been > told. I suppose this is another deal where we're not allowed to know yet who'll be getting our money? ;-) -D -waiting patiently.... for this, and a GP7, a C628, sharks, VO1000, and so on so on so on ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gabe" Subject: [PRR] Re: NECorridor speeds... Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 16:21:44 -0400 Content-Length: 1875 >***just a quick snap-shot from a bookshelf grab... >Our on-line signal group got into discussing the Metroliners from PRR to Atk; >Bob worked on them, and I got to watch some early test runs. > >In discussing Metroliner speeds; as we all know they were capable of higher >speeds, and proved it regularly in testing - some of which I witnessed - but >these are the ETT Speed Restrictions used for normal operations.... >in very general terms: > >12/15/72, PC ETT#9 says: Metros ( 8xx) and Test Cars ( T-x) and our own Jersey >Arrow I MUs (1xx): >MAX = 100 mph, in designated territory. Max for other equipment = 80 mph. >10/25/81,Amtrak ETT#3 says: MAX = 110 mph, and equipment determines what top >speed you may go...Metros ONLY =110 mph, most MUs =100 mph, GG1s and E60s= 80 >mph, AEM-7 = 125 mph. > And car equipment...Amfleet = 125 mph, many coaches = 105 mph, down to CR >Cabin car # 18747 = 25 mph. hahahha....NOT used on Metro...!!! I appreciate that... but... Did you come across anything on the HIGHEST MAS on NEC from 1972 - 1976? I didn't look at TT's much then, but, I know that they planned on 150 on the NEC for the Metroliners in early 1970's, did the signal design (never installed) for the higher speeds, and in that era I rode head-end 125mph Metroliners and 100mph GG1s... Trying to find documentation of any higher speeds, as the signal system was never installed to support them... Test runs don't count of course... Thanks Bill - Gabe ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 16:27:48 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] Metroliners,Heavyweights and Truc Train trailers Content-Length: 4961 Hi folks... Ok i got a lot of ground to cover in this one e-mail so here goes... Metros....I have a PC ETT (No.2 Dec.1,1968)And this would be for around the time the metros would have been fairly new. It lists the following on page 241. 1157-G-1.Maximum Speeds,unless otherwise restricted Class single unit multiple light with train ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- B-1 25 ------ 25 DD-1 50 ------ 50 E-44 50 60 80 GG-1 4887 to 4938 50 60 100 GG-1 4800 to 4886 50 60 90 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- MU cars except MP 85 (MP-54?) 65 MPH MP 85 No.s 201-219,251-269,294-299 75* MP 85 DE-2 No.s 220-229 75* MP 85 EE-2 No.s 230,231 75* MP 85 FE-2 No.s 232,233 75* MP 85 GE-2 No.s 234,235 75* MP 85 HE-2 No.s 236,237 75* MP 85 JE-2 No.s 238,239 75* MP 85 E-4 No.s 800-830 (metros) ? 160 MPC 85 E-5 No.s 850-869 (metros) ? 160 MPP 85 E-5 No.s 880-889 (metros) ? 160 MP 85 E-6 No.s 100-134 100 MP 85 E-3 No.s T-1,T-2,T-3,T-4 160 (USDOT cars)? RDC multiple units 80 RDC single units 50 Rail Detector cars 50 Rail Motor Car or Cars 65 * when air springs are deflated or over-inflated on,class MP-85 MU cars, the speed of the train must not exceed 30 MPH and diverting movements 15 MPH to the next terminal. Ok...on Heavyweights... I'm open to any prototypical cars that were used on the PRR ... I've had to modify one car using Northeast Rail Service parts to get a PRR solarium parlor car. would like a 6-6 car and others. Ok...on Truc Train trailers.... I made it out to the junk yard today and got some photos of the old TT trailer out there..also took some measurements too.... Here are some notes... PRRZ 200698.... This trailer is identical to those pictured on page 322 (top of page) in "Pennsy Power II" and the red trailers in the middle picture of "PRR Color guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment" on page 44. the trailer is still in the red color. It is 39'11 1/2" long,a flat 8' wide. It is 8'5" high from the top of the box to the bottom of the box and about 12'2" high over all. It has one side door on the right side (looking from back doors) that is 45" wide. The ribs are spaced 18" apart.there are 8 ribs forward of the side door and 13 aft of it. there are 25 ribs on the left or drivers side of it. It has Firestone tires. built by Fruehauf (numbers on the builders plate are.... VJ6-F2-40(model no.?) and AVD-836292 (serial no.?) It has a ACI label plate on both sides between the 6th and 7th rib the ACI label plate is 10 1/2" X 22",there are 13 bars 5 3/4" X 1" with 3/8 spacing between them. There are two "LIFT" labels on each side with the forward one 7'6" from the front and the other 8'6 1/2" from the rear. The "PENNSYLVANIA" name on the front is in a bar 8"high and 6'1" wide, with 7" letters. the side number plates are 7"X 38" with 5" letters. the end number decals are about the same. The PRR keystones are 16 1/2" high X 14 1/2" wide with a 7/16" border. the "P" is 11 1/4" high and the two "R"s are 7". It has a doubler plate on the front and back also the side door which is the width or the doors or front and is 24" high from the bottom. It has two keystones of the same dimentions on the back below number decals. On the inside of the trailer it is painted a light grey.there is a 6" number stenciled near the door about halfway up the side near the door. It still has a N.Y. trailer tag...N.Y. 813446 I will be sending pictures to Jerry to scan for all to see as soon as i can.I plan on making up a line drawing to go with this for those needing this information and some i have'nt included here. Til Later Hank Mummert ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 15:38:48 -0700 Subject: [PRR] Re: [pcl] New line of heavyweight passenger cars From: staffsgtyork@juno.com Content-Length: 1242 On Sat, 29 Aug 1998 05:06:28 EDT Hal6963@aol.com writes: >The (mystery) manufacturer is monitoring the Passenger Car List for >the level of interest in the new heavyweights. >Also what level of detail is desired? I would love to see a set of passenger kits arrive with the window area built as a drop in section. This would allow customizing the kit to match a multitude of plans. Just add prefab window sets, or customized sets of windows with blank spaces within the drop in section. The roof should be a seperate piece in case you wish to model a car whose roof has been modified by merely trading it out. SSGT York _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 15:43:25 -0700 Subject: [PRR] Re: [pcl] New line of heavyweight passenger cars From: staffsgtyork@juno.com Content-Length: 909 On Sat, 29 Aug 1998 10:09:10 EDT RickTipton@aol.com writes: >Along with heavyweight passenger cars, I would love to see a steel 50' >Railway Express Reefer. There is not a passenger train modeler who doesn't >need multiples of these. > >Rick Tipton HEAR HEAR! Very good idea. SSGT York _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 18:54:50 EDT Subject: [PRR] New line of heavyweight passenger cars Content-Length: 1071 In a message dated 8/29/98 9:12:12 AM Central Daylight Time, RickTipton@aol.com writes: << Along with heavyweight passenger cars, I would love to see a steel 50' Railway Express Reefer. There is not a passenger train modeler who doesn't need multiples of these. >> Since Sunshine has the 1947 version in a flat kit, as well as correct trucks, I wouldn't place a high priority on that kit, but I understand building a string of such cars of this type is a little daunting, so after some other models, it might make sense. Or the 1954-5 car would be a good candidate ( the Trains brass versions are not too unreasonable at swap meet, although I am not confident of their accuracy). Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rail Classics" Subject: RE: [PRR] New PRR Web Site Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 19:08:24 -0400 Content-Length: 1265 Hello fellow PRR enthusiast; I would like to introduce myself and my company to you. My name is Eddy Piazza of Rail Classics. We are importers of PRR "HO" Scale Brass. We now have a Web Site at www.railclassics.com. When you have a spare moment visit our site, it will give you an idea what Rail Classics is all about. I just received a fax from our builder that the pilot samples of the R-50b Express Refrigerator Car in 3 Versions are on the way to us. After I review them, I will let you know when the production run will be in the USA. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRSignals@aol.com Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 23:19:14 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: NECorridor speeds... Content-Length: 2026 In a message dated 8/29/98 7:29:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, wahsatch@vaix2.net writes: << Wish I could find my copies of the last PRR ETT & PC #1,2,3 ETT - got legs in Chattannoga! Guess I was wrong but I'll swear we ran at higher speeds - not too many places but there were a few. Bob >> *** " bubbles " had posted (PRR-TALK, fwded to you guys) the max speeds; those restrictions / listings were for equipment ( PRR GO for SI#1157-G1, PRR ETT#23), and showed the Metro's at 160 mph for " test " purposes. These runs were done only under special arrangements; and not for regular service. The speeds that I posted are track speed limits, that we MUST abide by (SI #1157-C1) no matter what the equipment is able to do. Regular speeds in service were held down more by track / signal conditions, not equipment....at that time. Just as your automobile is built to go 100 mph; but you cannot legally in this area. In PC ETT#1, Track speeds have increased, with 100 mph the max. on the Corridor for the eastern / northern end, and a lot of 110 mph territory showing up South of HOOK. SI #1157-C1a has a special notation for..." 160 mph, track #3 only, West end County Interlocking and east end Millham Interlocking for test purposes only". Later on ( as you well know, Westinghouse Bob ) the equipment began to suffer under " pushing " conditions. ( Ben says the GE Metro's were better..!!!!) So, I got to ride on a Keystone decorated Metro in 1968...and worked with them later in the 90's as......retro-fitted push-pull ( non-powered ) Amtrak cab cars....#9640-series. The Circle of Life..!!!!! Bill**** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [pcl] New line of heavyweight passenger cars Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 23:06:05 -0500 Content-Length: 2157 Harold--thanks for compiling an input to the Passenger Car List. My choices for PRR Heavyweights, all with air conditioning: 8 Section-Buffet 8 section-5 Double Bedroom 10 Section-2 Compartment-1 Drawing Room 10 Section-3 Double Bedroom One last choice: 12 Section-1 Drawing Room. I know Rivarossi/IHC et al have marketed this, but no air conditioning. (Adding the roof ductwork from NERS is not a problem, but butchering the underbody to get it right is a pain.) Since this was by far the most common heavyweight on the PRR, it would be nice to have a current technology model with A/C. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL -----Original Message----- From: Hal6963@aol.com To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Saturday, August 29, 1998 4:21 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [pcl] New line of heavyweight passenger cars >The (mystery) manufacturer is monitoring the Passenger Car List for the level >of interest in the new heavyweights. Perhaps PRR Talk should put togeather a >list of Pennsy cars we would like to see and post it to that list. > >Send me your lists of what you would like to see in the way of Pennsy cars and >I will compile and edit for duplications then post our list of cars to the >Passenger Car LIst. > >Also what level of detail is desired? Interchangeable roof for AC and Non-AC? >Trucks, underbody detail, etc. > >Harold >Modeling the Middle Division > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRSignals@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 00:08:07 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Metroliner Speeds, cont'd... Content-Length: 1184 ****PC ETT #2, 12/1/68....top speed was still only 100 mph, track maximum; do not get confused with bubbles quoting the equipment max allowed, as 160 mph .............only on paper for equipment, tests. The Max. Track Speeds govern. The PC ETT SpInstr that governs Metro operational speeds is usually # 1157-C1b. As this was a new combo NYC-PRR ETT, newly defined NJ Division = only to FAIR / Trenton; account of new div/region splits. So I cannot see the south end, which was always higher in speeds..... Eastern Reg PC ETT#3....4/27/69...now i see 115 mph, morris to mp 76....rest 100; and on south end, 115 lotsa' places, with some 120 territory showing up. near bedtime, so I will skip up to PC ETT#8, 4/30/72: Speeds have been reduced..!!!....100 mph max anywhere on NECorridor....hmmm...Bill* ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 04:02:24 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [pcl] New line of heavyweight passenger cars Content-Length: 944 Steve, Amen, I have the photo's of these cars and more just waiting for someone like Branchline, Intermountain or whoever the "mystery guest" is to ask to put them to use. I think that there are some common arrangements that will work for all, but regardless we need to realize that if we want quality as good or better than the brass companies can provide, one we will have to dig deep and in order to keep cost down be willing to provide some "sweat equity" to get the car(s) of our dreams and I am not saying to kitbash it just to make it right either. Greg Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Knepper" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [pcl] New line of heavyweight passenger cars Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 10:20:28 -0500 Content-Length: 1858 Ala Highliners ? ........ ---------- > From: staffsgtyork@juno.com > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Re: [pcl] New line of heavyweight passenger cars > Date: Saturday, August 29, 1998 5:38 PM > > > On Sat, 29 Aug 1998 05:06:28 EDT Hal6963@aol.com writes: > >The (mystery) manufacturer is monitoring the Passenger Car List for > >the level of interest in the new heavyweights. > >Also what level of detail is desired? > > I would love to see a set of passenger kits arrive with the window area > built as a drop in section. This would allow customizing the kit to > match a multitude of plans. Just add prefab window sets, or customized > sets of windows with blank spaces within the drop in section. The roof > should be a seperate piece in case you wish to model a car whose roof has > been modified by merely trading it out. > > SSGT York > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 14:14:14 -0700 Subject: [PRR] Re: [pcl] New line of heavyweight passenger cars From: staffsgtyork@juno.com Content-Length: 748 On Sun, 30 Aug 1998 10:20:28 -0500 "Bill Knepper" writes: >Ala Highliners ? ........ > YOU GOT IT, MAN!!! SSGT YORK _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 17:26:57 EDT Subject: [PRR] Altoona Yard 1946 Content-Length: 1859 I received the 1946 Altoona Yard blueprint last week and here are the statistics for the yard: ALTOONA YARD CORRECT TO JANUARY 1, 1946 ALTOONA, PENNSYLVANIA WESTWARD EMPTY RECEIVING YARD: 853 CARS; 10 TRACKS LOADED RECEIVING YARD: 211 CARS; 6 TRACKS LOADED CLASSIFICATION YARD: 540 CARS; 13 TRACKS EMPTY YARD: 1365 CARS; 25 TRACKS PREFERENCE AND ADVANCE TRACKS: 1502 CARS; 18 TRACKS TOTALS: 4471 CARS; 72 TRACKS EASTWARD RECEIVING YARD: 1791 CARS; 25 TRACKS CLASSIFICATION YARD: 2427 CARS; 32 TRACKS ADVANCE YARD: 578 CARS; 7 TRACKS TOTALS: 4796 CARS; 64 TRACKS TOTAL CAPACITY ALL OTHER TRACKS AND SIDINGS (EXCLUDING 32.62 MILES ALTOONA WORKS INDUSTRIAL SIDINGS): 7698 CARS TOTAL CARS - ALL TRACKS: 16,965 CARS The drawing shows Bell, Antis, Homer, Furnace, Farm, Rose, Works, South, Alto, and Slope Towers. Also schematic of the engine terminal with 12 storage tracks for the Middle Division and 12 tracks for the Pittsburg Division, Full Circle Roundhouse, 3 Turntables, Ash Pits, Coaling Towers, Pittsburg Cabins-5 Tracks, the Water Bridge and lots of miscellaneous structures include various bridges with the Red Bridge specifically identified. Also shown is the 17th Street Yard, Altoona Machine Shop, Passenger Station, Freight Station, Freight Transfer Yard, Scales, M.W. Yard, Car Repair Yard 30 tracks and the Stock Pens. Location of the Car Shops and the Juniata Shops is indicated but without details. Harold Modeling the Middle Division ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 18:33:50 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] LI H-10 tenders Content-Length: 958 Hi... Just something i noticed...In Pennsy Power I there is a shot of the back head of a LI H-10 no. 105. It goes on to say that this was a former PRR engine...No.7558 All of this on page 39. It has a standard stoker. The tender most likely was similar to the type used behind the L-1 class. Another picture of a PRR H-10 with a stoker is shown on page 43...bottom of the page..this is No. 9624. The tender it has is also similar to a L-1 type tender. Til Later Hank Mummert ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Leary" Subject: RE: [PRR] Passenger Ops at Harrisburg -- new page! Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 18:49:05 -0400 Content-Length: 2259 Jerry, Super information, THANKS! This helps me to build proper PRR passenger consists. Again, thanks! Sincerely, Greg Leary (electronically signed) > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Jerry > Sent: Friday, August 28, 1998 6:08 PM > To: PRR-Talk > Subject: [PRR] Passenger Ops at Harrisburg -- new page! > > > I'm pleased to unveil a new series of pages at "KC". Go to the Passenger > Operations section (http://kc.pennsyrr.com/passops/) and you'll find my > latest project, "24 Hours at Harrisburg", which chronicles 24 hours of > movements at the Harrisburg passenger station. > > It includes all of the info from the Form 4 for Sept. 28, 1954. The Form > 4 was released on the 26th, a Sunday, and I wanted the first day free of > special weekend schedules, so I used Tuesday! > > The Overview page explains my sources and those yet to be entered. IMHO, > it's pretty neat. Enjoy, and let me know your thoughts... > > The site is still running "crippled" at 14.4K, but the web server is > running and these pages load pretty fast (surprisingly) as they are text > only. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com > Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. > Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com > The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 18:50:09 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] Metros and speeds... Content-Length: 1720 Hi all... OK duh on my part...i did'nt think of the track restrictions... Again from the Dec.1srt 1968 PC ETT.... 1157-C1. starting on page 215 Philadelphia Division...Main 80 MPH Max.on tracks 1,2,3&4 for passenger trains (basically between Millham and MP 76(also east end Delaware river bridge) MP 76 and shore.................80 MPH shore and N.Philly 50 MPH mostly 50,60 and 75 MPH most other places on the Philadelphia Div. Chesapeake Division.............80 MPH Max. except it varies other places such as bridges,interlockings and near stations. Harrisburg Division.............75 MPH Max. also varies as on the Chesapeake Div. On a related note...how many remember the telephone the metros had for use of passengers,the little metroliner train sets you could get for kids and the copies of Trains magazine in the club cars? My dad worked them as a extra list man just before Amtrak took over service. He had a 4 car train break in half once...told me it took 4-5 miles to stop the thing. Was in the upper speed range (this was after some track improve- ments) in Maryland. Luckly no one was walking between cars when it happened. Til Later Hank Mummert ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 08:11:38 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [pcl] New line of heavyweight passenger cars Content-Length: 1813 >On Sun, 30 Aug 1998 10:20:28 -0500 "Bill Knepper" >writes: >>Ala Highliners ? ........ >> > >YOU GOT IT, MAN!!! > >SSGT YORK Hey! Did y'all see that Athearn bought the Highliner molds? It was printed right there in Model Railroader (along with a photo of a very detailed F unit)! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary works in Braille. ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:09:05 -0500 From: Greg Johnson Subject: [PRR] Changing Eras Content-Length: 1016 I am changing eras from 1956 to 1967-68 and have five pieces of PRR brass available for trade or sale. Perhaps there is someone out there who would like to change eras back to steam from the late PRR era. I am in need of 2nd generation power (some PC power would be acceptable) and additional appropriate rolling stock. All mint TRO: Railworks I-1 #4645 F/P Railworks I-1 #4524 F/P Key (Samhongsa) H8SB #1932 F/P Sunset (Sam.) H-8 #7535 C/P Sunset H-6SA #9828 F/P Also does anyone recommend a good hobby shop that moves a lot of PRR brass on consignment, in case I can't make a trade or two? Thanks, Greg Johnson gjohn195@swbell.net ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Cooper Subject: [PRR] RE: NECorridor speeds... Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:12:35 -0700 Content-Length: 2530 > ---------- > From: Gabe[SMTP:gabe@polymath.com] > Sent: Saturday, August 29, 1998 1:21 PM > To: PRRSignals@aol.com; sbartlet@capecod.net; maxrail@worldnet.att.net; > wahsatch@vaix2.net; Homesignal@aol.com; John Cooper; FRANKGARON@aol.com; > stevephillips@prodigy.net; PRR-talk@dsop.com > Cc: HOLLERFAM@aol.com; bnixon+@pitt.edu; PRRMAN@aol.com; > kreinert@erols.com > Subject: Re: NECorridor speeds... > > >12/15/72, PC ETT#9 says: Metros ( 8xx) and Test Cars ( T-x) and our own > Jersey > >Arrow I MUs (1xx): > >MAX = 100 mph, in designated territory. Max for other equipment = 80 > mph. > >10/25/81,Amtrak ETT#3 says: MAX = 110 mph, and equipment determines what > top > >speed you may go...Metros ONLY =110 mph, most MUs =100 mph, GG1s and > E60s= > 80 > >mph, AEM-7 = 125 mph. > > And car equipment...Amfleet = 125 mph, many coaches = 105 mph, down to > CR > >Cabin car # 18747 = 25 mph. hahahha....NOT used on Metro...!!! > > > I appreciate that... but... Did you come across anything on the HIGHEST > MAS on NEC from 1972 - 1976? > I didn't look at TT's much then, but, I know that they planned on 150 on > the > NEC for the Metroliners in early 1970's, did the signal design (never > installed) for the higher speeds, and in that era I rode head-end 125mph > Metroliners and 100mph GG1s... Trying to find documentation of any higher > speeds, as the signal system was never installed to support them... Test > runs don't count of course... > Thanks Bill - Gabe > > I didn't want to question the authority of the 1972 and 1981 TT you quoted Bill, but I was pretty sure that I once clocked a GG-1 at 36sec/mile (100mph). I'm sure many of you know why the E60 is limited to 80mph, but perhaps it is worth repeating. The E60 was designed to do what the AEM7 do now, ie 125+ mph. But there is a problem with the suspension that causes the unit to oscillate about its yaw axis. (The front goes left while the back does right, and then the opposite.) I saw an E60 running light thru Princeton Jct once, and I've never seen anything zigzag like that before. I took a few extra steps back. John ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:22:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [pcl] New line of heavyweight passenger cars Content-Length: 1036 > >Question..... I wonder why the Miracle Castings is going to usE Athearn > >drive trucks instead of the P2K which most think are better ? Any > >idea ? > > > BECAUSE ATHEARN IS RELEASING THE FULLY POWERED VERSION AS THEIR GENESIS > SERIES (READ: ALL NEW DRIVE TRAIN). MIRACLE CASTINGS WILL RETAIN THE > RIGHT TO SELL JUST THE SHELLS AS THEIR OWN PRODUCT. BEFORE THE RUMOR > MILL GETS ROLLING, THE PHOTOS IN THE LATEST MODEL RAILROADER SHOW THE > SHELLS ON THE STANDARD LINE ATHEARN FRAME. THIS IS FOR DEMONSTRATIVE > PURPOSES. SHELLS LOOK MAHVALOUS!!!! Uh, no, you've confused Highliners (F units) with Miracle Castings (passenger sharks) -D ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] SALE-Westerfield Update Date: Mon, 31 Aug 98 14:09:11 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 7302 Several have indicated an inability to download the Westerfield "specials" PDF file. Here's the list as text...arrows down right side point out PRR units. Please order by part number and confirm description in Walthers catalog (I have some doubts!). The part number will be used in the case of inconsitencies. To recap, now through December 31 (1998), while supplies last, Westerfield kits are available at the unheard of price of "3 for $45". Add $5 per order for shipping. Pa. residents must also add 6% sales tax. Send check payable to "Desktop Solutions" to same at P.O. Box 189, #191; Etters PA 17319-0189. Proceeds benefit operation of the DSOP.COM and PENNSYRR.COM mailing lists and web sites. Thank you for your support 1101 50' A-50-40 Autocar UP 1104 50' A-50-40 Autocar Undec 1151 50' A-50-40 Autocar UP/GTW 1200 46' Gondola Undec Reblt 1250 46' Gondola Undec 1251 46' Gondola Pennsylvania <------------------- 1300 36' XL Box Undec 1304 36' XL Box PRR/PL <------------------- 1305 36' XL Box Anchor Line 1310 36' Vent Box NYP&N 1350 36' XL Modern Box Undec 1351 36' XL Modern Box PRR/PL <------------------- 1400 36' BXZ Box Undec 1401 36' Composite Box ATSF 1402 36' Composite Box Undec 1502 36' Fowler Patent Box GT 1503 36' Fowler Patent Box Mont & Atl 1504 36' Fowler Patent Box CanGovRR 1505 36' Fowler Patent Box InterColonial 1600 HP Hopper Car Undec 1700 B-50-1 Box Car Undec 1703 B-50-1 Box Car Mont&Atl 1704 B-50-1 Box Car CentPac 1705 B-50-1 Box Car Ore&Cal 1706 B-50-1 Box Car Hous&TxCent 1800 R-30-1 Reefer Undec 1801 40' Harriman R-30 1/2 Reefer PFE 1802 40' Harr. R-30 1/2 Rfr PFE Exp Letter 1900 Murphy SS Box Car Undec 2000 Murphy DS Box Car Undec 2100 USRA 70T Hopper Undec 2101 39' USRA 70T Hop Undec 2102 39' USRA 70T Hop Hocking Valley 2103 39' USRA 70T Hop NYC 2150 Modern 70T Hp Undec 2200 36' Coffin Pickle Tank Undec 2300 GL Hpper Car Undec 2302 33' GL/GLC Twin Hop Berwind Wht 2303 33' GL/GLC Twin Hop KeystoneCoal 2305 33' GL/GLC Twin Hop W.Moreland 2306 33' GL/GLC Twin Hop GL NY Coal 2350 33' GL/GLC Twin Hop GLC Undec 2352 33' GL/GLC Twin Hop GLC Ber. Wht 2361 33' GL/GLC Twin Hop PRR <------------------- 2362 33' GL/GLC Twin Hop Berwind Wht 2400 PSC Hopper Car Undec 2401 31' Steel Twin Hopper NYC&SUB 2402 31' Steel Twin Hopper UP 2500 Composite Gondola Undec 2601 42' AC&F type IC reefer Union Reef Trans 2750 Modern RF Reefer Undec 2752 36' RF Reefer PRR AmRwyExp 2753 36' RF Reefer FruitGrowerExp 2754 36' XM Vent Box PRR Modern 2800 50' SS Auto Car Box Undec 2850 GN 50' SS Box Undec 2905 40' USRA Steel Box Cin North 3000 USRA Steel Autocar Undec 3150 WI - Hopper Undec 3200 H21A - Hopper Undec 3201 H21A - Hopper Pennsylvania <------------------- 3202 H21A - Hopper PRR Clamshell <------------------- 3250 H21A - Hopper Undec 3300 USRA SS Box Car Undec 3301 USRA SS Box Car GET data 3303 USRA SS Box Car C&O 3304 USRA SS Box Car C&NW 3305 USRA SS Box Car NYC 3306 USRA SS Box Car PRR <------------------- 3307 USRA SS Box Car SP 3308 USRA SS Box Car B&O 3309 USRA SS Box Car D&H 3310 USRA SS Box Car PR Reading 3312 USRA SS Box Car MC/PMCK&Y 3313 USRA SS Box Car GR&I/NYP&N 3314 USRA SS Box Car Erie 3315 USRA SS Box Car N&W 3402 PSC Ore Car Algoma Cent/LC&M 3450 22' Steel Ore Car Undec 3451 22' Steel Ore Car GN 3452 22' Steel Ore Car YsmtVly&Sierra 3600 BX-3 Box Original Undec 3650 BX-3 Box Modern Undec 3700 IE-X Reefer Undec 3202 40' Composite IE-X ATSF Salt 3801 40' USRA Dbl Sheath Box ATSF 3802 40' USRA Dbl Sheath Box ACL 3804 USRA PS Box C&EI/USA Phantoms 3809 40' USRA Dbl Sheath Box RI 3810 40' USRA Dbl Sheath Box Frisco 3815 40' USRA Dbl Sheath Box GN 3818 40' USRA Dbl Sheath Box NW Pac 3819 40' USRA Dbl Sheath Box SP&S 3820 40' USRA Dbl Sheath Box Wabash 3853 40' USRA Dbl Sheath Box BM Mod. 3855 40' USRA Dbl Sheath Box GN Mod. 3858 40' USRA Dbl Sheath Box NW Pac. 3902 34' Heinz Reefer Baked Beans 3903 34' Heinz Reefer Apple Butter 3905 34' Heinz Reefer India Relish 3906 34' Heinz Reefer Euchred Figs 3907 34' Heinz Reefer Food Products 3908 34' Heinz Reefer Malt Vinegar 4000 Bx-W Box Car Undec 4001 36' Composite Box ATSF Bx-W 4031 36' Composite Box ATSF Bx-Y 4100 36' Composite Box SU Hutchins 4150 36' Composite Box SU T-Brace Undec 4154 36' Composite Box SU T-Brace M&O Rwy 4202 36' Fowler Patent Stk CP 2-brace 4205 36' Fowler Patent Stk CP 4-brace 4302 36' Fowler Patent Box Erie&Susq 4304 36' Fowler Patent Box GT US Assign 4305 36' Fowler Patent Box NC&STL 4306 36' Fowler Patent Box Erie&Susq 4307 36' Fowler Patent Box GT 1912 pro. 4308 36' Fowler Patent Box CT 1913 stl roof 4309 36' Fowler Patent Box GT 1913 wd roof 4310 36' Fowler Patent Box GT 1918 pro. 4354 36' Fowler Patent Box Nash, Chat & SL 4451 40' Fowler Patent Box CNW 4550 GRA Gondola Mod. 4600 Bx-11 Box Car Undec 4601 40' Bx-11 Box Car ATSF 4700 Bx-12 Box Car Undec 4701 Bx-12 Box Car ATSF 4800 Bx-13 Box Car Undec 4801 Bx-13 Box Car ATSF 4902 40' Harriman Reefer PFE R-30-4 4903 40' Harriman Reefer PFE R-30-5 4953 40' Harriman Reefer PFE R-30-5 5101 HR Hopper N&W 5201 36' Harriman Stock S-40-4 SP 5202 36' Harriman Stock S-40-4 UP 5300 36' Harriman Stock S-40-5 Undec 5301 36' Harriman Stock S-40-5 SP 5302 36' Harriman Stock S-40-6 UP & Subsids 5400 36' Harriman Stock S-40-8/9/10 Undec 5701 33' GLA Hopper PRR <------------------- 5752 33' GLA Hopper Berwind White 5753 33' GLA Hopper NewRiver&Pach 5801 50' A-50-6 Auto Car UP 5851 50' A-50-6 Auto Car NYC Mod. 5901 50' B-50-20 cnvt box UP rebilt 5951 50' B-50-20 cnvt box UP AB brk 6001 40' AC&F reefer Union Refr Trans 6003 40' AC&F reefer Amer Refr Trans 6201 40' X25 steel Auto car PRR <------------------- 6401 40' Fowler clone box RI 1913 WSC&F 6402 40' Fowler cln bx RI 1915 Bettendorf 6403 40' Fowler clone box DRG&W 6405 40' Fowler cln bx RI 1915 Haskell & Barker 6453 40' Fowler cln bx DRG&W rebilt 6463 40' Fowler cln bx DRG&W AB brakes 6501 40' AC&F reefer Amer Refr Trans 6605 40' AC&F reefer type II BPDX Bordens 6606 40' AC&F reefer type II CIPX Coll Inn 6609 40' AC&F reefer type II Miller Hi Life 6610 40' AC&F reefer type II Pabst Blue 6652 40' AC&F reefer type II NW mod. 6703 40' AC&F reefer NWX Tracy 6704 40' AC&F reefer Union Reefer Trans 6705 40' AC&F reefer URTX/Milw 6707 40' AC&F reefer NWX/Priebe Poultry 6752 40' AC&F reefer NWX grn & yell ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [pcl] New line of heavyweight passenger cars Date: Mon, 31 Aug 98 14:13:46 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1047 On 8/31/98 9:11 AM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: >Hey! Did y'all see that Athearn bought the Highliner molds? It was >printed right there in Model Railroader (along with a photo of a very >detailed F unit)! Hey, I'll bite...is this a good thing? I'm not familiar with the Highliner products. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 14:29:30 -0400 From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: NECorridor speeds... Content-Length: 1238 John Cooper wrote: > > > I appreciate that... but... Did you come across anything on the HIGHEST > > MAS on NEC from 1972 - 1976? > > I didn't look at TT's much then, but, I know that they planned on 150 on > > the > > NEC for the Metroliners in early 1970's, did the signal design (never > > installed) for the higher speeds, and in that era I rode head-end 125mph > > Metroliners and 100mph GG1s... Trying to find documentation of any higher > > speeds, as the signal system was never installed to support them... Test > > runs don't count of course... > > Thanks Bill - Gabe Gabe, do you know the specifics of the signal design for the higher speeds? Besides potentially respacing the signals, was PRR planning any new speed definitions, any new signal aspects? Or were they planning on having someone slow down from 150 to 45 to 30 to 15? - Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 12:18:19 -0700 Subject: [PRR] Re: [pcl] New line of heavyweight passenger cars From: staffsgtyork@juno.com Content-Length: 1611 On Sun, 30 Aug 1998 20:06:16 -0500 "Bill Knepper" writes: >FYI, >Just read in MRR that Athearn bought the "Highliner" dies for the "F" >and will produce them shortly..... > >Question..... I wonder why the Miracle Castings is going to usE Athearn >drive trucks instead of the P2K which most think are better ? Any >idea ? > BECAUSE ATHEARN IS RELEASING THE FULLY POWERED VERSION AS THEIR GENESIS SERIES (READ: ALL NEW DRIVE TRAIN). MIRACLE CASTINGS WILL RETAIN THE RIGHT TO SELL JUST THE SHELLS AS THEIR OWN PRODUCT. BEFORE THE RUMOR MILL GETS ROLLING, THE PHOTOS IN THE LATEST MODEL RAILROADER SHOW THE SHELLS ON THE STANDARD LINE ATHEARN FRAME. THIS IS FOR DEMONSTRATIVE PURPOSES. SHELLS LOOK MAHVALOUS!!!! AS FOR THE P2K TRUCKS, THEY ARE IMPROVED ATHEARN TRUCKS (IN THE GP SERIES). CHECK EM OUT. SSGT YORK PRO CUSTOM HOBBIES PS--ONE OF OUR FORMER EMPLOYEES WORKS FOR LIFELIKE. WE KEEP PESTERING HIM TO MAKE BALDWIN B TRUCK SHARKS. NOTHING YET. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 15:43:46 -0400 From: "Tom von Trott" Subject: [PRR] PRR 643 operating this week Content-Length: 755 Just thought the group would like to know that ex-PRR 0-6-0 B4a #643 operated on Sunday August 30, and will again operate Wed-Mon of this week. We will most likely be pulling passangers (and giving cab rides) Thursday and Friday evenings, and all day Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. 643 is operated in conjunction with the steam show at Williams Grove amusment park every August. Tom von Trott ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 18:20:03 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] Darn...no money Content-Length: 875 Hi all... It fiqures...theres Mr. Johnson selling his brass engines and i can't even get one..Darn. Would have really liked one of the H class engines especially that H-6...would have fit well with what i'm modeling. oh well there be another day...hopefully... Good luck guys and i hope Mr. Johnson finds a buyer for his engines... Til Later Hank Mummert Its a bummer to be broke....LOL ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] site info From: caylorman@juno.com (E.J. Caylor) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 18:57:34 EDT Content-Length: 936 Could someone help me out with my new website? I am looking for info on the PRR main line from Indianapolis to Terre Haute, with emphasis on towers & detailed info from ETT's. If anyone can help me out, I would really appreciate it. Thanks E.J. Caylor Ghost Railroads of Indiana members.theglobe.com/Caylorman/prrmon.html _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 20:33:52 +0000 From: "R. Vogel" Subject: [PRR] out the window observations Content-Length: 1246 I just returned from a rail jaunt out to Illinois (beyond Chicago) from Boston via New York City. After the Hell Gate Bridge but before Sunnyside there is an old small semaphore signal (for northbound traffic) in the middle of a catanary support bridge. I didn't know semaphores were ever in use here. Has anyone else seen this semaphore who might offer some explanatory words? (How did it survive?) Up in the former NYC territory the PRR is represented with 2 boxcars near Berea Ohio. The have steps leading up to them - obviously some sort of storage shed. These are on the south side of the train. On the north side of the train I spotted a GG1 in a 5 strip scheme. I recollect this as being somewhere in New York. While many Conrail cars had been relabeled as NYC, I didn't see any PRR ones. I assume those can be spotted from the Three Rivers. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Knepper" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [pcl] New line of heavyweight passenger cars Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 19:57:04 -0500 Content-Length: 1682 They are super nice shells ! ---------- > From: Jerry > To: PRR-Talk > Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [pcl] New line of heavyweight passenger cars > Date: Monday, August 31, 1998 1:13 PM > > On 8/31/98 9:11 AM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: > > >Hey! Did y'all see that Athearn bought the Highliner molds? It was > >printed right there in Model Railroader (along with a photo of a very > >detailed F unit)! > > Hey, I'll bite...is this a good thing? > > I'm not familiar with the Highliner products. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com > Building Harrisburg, Pa., in HO scale, circa 1954. > Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > Web space for rent at http://www.pennsyrr.com > The Standard Pennsy Web Site of the World! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRSignals@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 21:47:35 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] out the window observations Content-Length: 704 ****HI, Bob - sounds like a good trip. I suspect that "semaphore" on Hell Gate was one of the " standard " NYNH&H signals....all along their electric lines at one time. Shorter, and with upper quadrant, dropping ccw....opposite of the usual. Take a look at NH Web site = www.NHRHTA.org ...........and see if they look similar. Bill*** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gabe" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: NECorridor speeds... Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 23:29:43 -0400 Content-Length: 1830 >> > I didn't look at TT's much then, but, I know that they planned on 150 on >> > the >> > NEC for the Metroliners in early 1970's, did the signal design (never >> > installed) for the higher speeds, and in that era I rode head-end 125mph >> > Metroliners and 100mph GG1s... Trying to find documentation of any higher >> > speeds, as the signal system was never installed to support them... Test >> > runs don't count of course... >Gabe, >do you know the specifics of the signal design for the higher speeds? Besides >potentially respacing the signals, was PRR planning any new speed definitions, >any new signal aspects? Or were they planning on having someone slow down >from 150 to 45 to 30 to 15? >Mark The HDIS "original design" was completed prior to 1976 to provide for additional cab signal aspects... I can't give you any details on it, but, it was generally a cab-no-wayside, "more aspects" cab system. The BLE killed it on safety reasons... (BRS Signalman's Journal article 1976) While the technology is definitely a tad different now, the original was generally to also install cab-no-wayside with additional aspects to cover the 150 mph Metroliners. I didn't think much on what hadn't happened there - but was hoping to learn a bit more of what did occur... The BLE petitioned the FRA on this, so should be easy to track down quite a bit of docs on what was going on... I only have the signalman's stuff... Gabe ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!!