Subject: Re: [PRR] X31f interior Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 08:40:49 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 697 On 30 Jun, Andy Cich wrote: > The Spring, 1984 issue of Pennsy Journal has several pages of tracings > of the X31. Some of them show the auto loading mechanism (Autos - not > jeeps). Right; the X31 and X32 were round-roofs, but the X31f had a higher, more rounded roof than the others, and was indeed for Jeep carriage. Dennis ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 07:14:05 -0700 (PDT) From: andy mulhollen Subject: [PRR] Rockville Bridge Pictures Content-Length: 2095 Greetings All, The Horseshoe Curve Chapter of the NRHS held an Emergency Meeting Sunday. It was decided that we would attempt to obtain the Rockville Bridge Photos on Ebay. Our goal is to publish the photos using the procedes to fund our current and future PRR restoration projects. We are currently restoring the business car Duquesne. We are in the process of obtaining the Solarium car Union League Club and the Bar/Lounge car Nicholas Firestone , for future restoration. I have asked Mr. Greg Stone not to bid against us if you all were just attempting to save the photos. We have no intention of hoarding these photos and not allowing any access to the public. We hope to use them to raise funds however and do intend to keep any copyright privileges so that we may sell the published photos. In the end the original photos will most likely be donated to the Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum. Where they will have proper archival storage and display. I truly hope this is consistant with the goals you all have for these fine photos. If not then we will have some friendly competition for them. All the details will be finalized at our July Meeting held on the fourth tuesday of the month. At our emergency meeting all of the above ideas were discussed but the emphasis of the meeting was to obtain the photos. If you have any questions feel free to contact me. Thanks again for your time! Yours in Pennsy Preservation, Andy J. Mulhollen D.O. Altoona, PA _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] rockville bridge photos Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 19:08:04 -0700 Content-Length: 1005 Hi Guys, Some advice please. How much do you figure it will cost to copy 65 photos of the Rockville Bridge. Then try to figure how much it will cost to ship them. Some guys are offering to help bid but want their copies included in the cost. So how do I figure how much I have to place on the bid at auction. Time is running out guys...less than 1 and 1/2 days left to bid. I need more support if you guys want to get in on this. If we are going to bid, then we are up against the Horseshoe Curve NRHS at least and there is another bidder also. I need communication from you guys one way or the other what do you want to do? Greg Stone ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] Rockville Bridge Photos Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 18:17:52 -0700 Content-Length: 937 Sorry Guys, The bid on the photos is now $950.00 and the auction is not finished. Personally even with everyones help this is too much for me. Personally I am going to see if the Horseshoe Curve NRHS guys need any help. I am not sure who is bidding against them but the HC-NRHS have committed to publishing them and preserving them. Since that is my goal, and I don't know what the other bidders intentions are, I am going to offer them my support. Thanks for all those who offered to help! Greg ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 16:59:23 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: [PRR] Re: Rockville Bridge Photos Content-Length: 730 Greg: Almost forgot to mention . . . Not that it makes much of a difference, but on the Rockville photos, the eBay description was slightly in error. The Kerbaugh construction company was not "the contractor for the bridge," it was the contractor for half the bridge (think it was the west side, but I forget). Drake & Strattan built the other half. Dan Cupper ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 08:14:29 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Atglen and Susquehanna Preservation Content-Length: 2272 Hi all, Jerry recently sent me an article from the Harrisburg Patriot News (Sunday, May 31, 1998, pp F1-2) on the attempts to turn the A&S right of way into a trail. Unfortunately, it seems that this effort has failed miserably, and the article says that Conrail's sale of the ROW to local townships has mandated the demolition of 10 bridges and effectively mandated the demolition of 15 more. Six bridges will be preserved. The state imposed an 18 month moratorium on rail to trail demolitions last October, but the A&S isn't covered by the moratorium. So, my points are: 1) An idea which bridges are coming down? (It seems pretty clear from the article that the Safe Harbor Bridge is a goner for sure) 2) Get those A&S photos NOW! Happy (?) Rails (to Trails?) Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary works in Braille. ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "tqpj6" Subject: [PRR] Renovo division freights Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 14:19:28 -0500 Content-Length: 505 Looking for info on freights W5, W1, EK1, EK2, BEC2, & BEC1 circa 1948. Motive power, schedule, etc. Thanks for your assistance SSG MCWILLIAMS ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 16:52:05 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: [PRR] Re: Rockville Bridge Photos Content-Length: 2300 Hello, Greg . . . . Greg Stone wrote: > > I am a Pennsylvania Railroad Historical Society Member. Me, too. Great magazine PRRTH&S puts out. > May I ask what your intentions are for these photos [Rockville Bridge > construction photos auctioned on the eBay internet site this morning]? > Do you intend to have them published or preserved in any manner so > that general public may benefit from the historic value of these > photos? Greg, I appreciate the fact that you were attempting to get the PRR-Talk group involved in this auction to avoid seeing the collection split up or having it go into a black hole somewhere, never to return. That's my interest and intention, too. To me, the important thing right now is to make sure the sale is completed. Nothing happens, or can happen, until then. You asked about the future -- another person on the list also has inquired about this. For business reasons I don't want to say much until plans are more firm, which may take some time. Hope you'll understand. For now, it's enough to say that I make my livelihood from writing and publishing, and you can draw your own conclusions from that. I've also been deeply involved as a PRR history consultant to the railroad museum and preservation community, and am sensitive to long-term conservation issues. Again, to report what *may* happen would be premature. As noted, the sale isn't even complete, so *everything* is premature at this point. When plans become more certain, I'd be glad to announce them on PRR-Talk, if Jerry would deem that to be appropriate and not a commercial spam-fest. If you have further questions, I'll do my best to answer; sorry to not offer the kind of details that you and possibly many others would like to read, but this is about all I can say for now. In an effort to reduce speculation, I'll post this note to the list as well as to you. Thanks for writing. Dan ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 07:27:06 EDT Subject: [PRR] Why no messages?? Content-Length: 440 It's been at least 2 days since I've recieved any PRR-Talk mail. What's going on? ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 18:35:45 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] H-45 a long way from home! Content-Length: 1832 In a message dated 98-06-30 03:13:41 EDT, TGREGMRTN@aol.com writes: << SNIP You ask how I could tell it was an original PRR car, well I checked the Trucks for the telltale PRR markings cast into them. Yep it was Pennsy all right and the trucks are marked ACF F-99 PRR V13092 3-65, on the A end and the truck on the B end was marked in BARBER S-2 dated 9-65 so at some point the trucks were swapped out, perhaps a wreck? I could see the remnants of the last two number prior to the NRLX markings, they were ----57. I could also see the keystone with layers of paint over them. >> Good find. However, use caution in using the truck casting information to tell a car's history as car owner's (including we at TTX) swap trucks all the time and even buy secondhand truck sideframes and bolsters to add cars to the pool of trucks. The trucks are reconditioned per AAR Rules and then applied to cars at time of program maintenance or even new cars when built. In fact, we have cars in our fleet built in the 1980's and 1990's that have PRR sideframes as well as many other former railroads. Obviously your finding remnents of the keystone verifies it as a PRR car. Most car owners still stamp the car initial and number on the car when built on the center sill, but finding that through 30+ layers of paint and road grime can be difficult. The brake badge plate may also give who the original owner is. Hope this information is helpful. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] We're Back!!! Date: Sat, 4 Jul 98 19:31:52 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1306 We're back!!! We being, me, listmeister, and the four lists. Things don't go as planned, usually, and we had a derailment on Tuesday night, as best I can guess. Based on CNN reports, a pretty bad storm came through. Power must've only "blipped", cause the UPS kept everything running as it should have. However, the telephone line must've been down, and when it came back online, the previously open connection wouldn't terminate and reset. So, the jist of it is that everything was ready, able, and willing to communicate except for some nickel-a-foot piece of wire!!! All back on line now and playing catchup. Looks like 7/2 was last digest. Sorry, but hey, I needed the vacation...good to be back though. 8-) ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "tqpj6" Subject: Re: [PRR] X31f interior Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 06:30:02 -0500 Content-Length: 1601 Speaking of sunshine, does anyone have a current address for them? Thanks, and sorry to digress from the thread. Mac ---------- > From: LINESWEST@aol.com > To: Bobspf@aol.com > Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] X31f interior > Date: Tuesday, June 30, 1998 12:32 PM > > In a message dated 6/28/98 1:06:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bobspf@aol.com > writes: > > << My understanding was that these turtle-backed roundroofs were built to > haul > Willys jeeps. > Anyone know how these jeeps were stacked in these cars and by what mechanism? > > Bob Zoeller >> > Back in 1991 at the NMRA train show in Columbus, I passed up a chance to buy > an HO X-31f resin kit at the Sunshine Models booth. Anybody know if Sunshine > still offers this kit? > What were they used for after the war. Were they still in service in 1952? > > Tom V. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 08:45:20 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] X31f interior Content-Length: 683 In a message dated 98-07-02 08:09:12 EDT, mac writes : << Speaking of sunshine, does anyone have a current address for them? Thanks, and sorry to digress from the thread. Mac >> I thought I posted this to the list in one of my last messages: Sunshine Models Box 4997, Springfield, MO 65808-4997 Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jim Cullen" Subject: [PRR] Type of Pass cars for PA/PB Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 21:01:35 -0400 Content-Length: 3622 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BDA78E.EE830340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a Life Like N-scale PRR PA & PB engine on order; should arrive = the end of this month. I was wondering what type of passenger cars = would look best (be more typical) to ride behind the PA/PB?. The = choices seem to be "smoothside", "heavyweights" or "corrugated". Also, = did PRR use E or F units for freight service? =20 Jim Cullen (jwcullen@erols.com) Model Railroad: http://members.tripod.com/~JimCullen Railroad Pictures: http://www.geocities.com/heartland/pointe/1433 =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to=20 "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BDA78E.EE830340 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 
I have a Life Like N-scale PRR PA = & PB=20 engine on order; should arrive the end of this month.  I was = wondering what=20 type of passenger cars would look best (be more typical) to ride behind = the=20 PA/PB?.  The choices seem to be "smoothside",=20 "heavyweights" or "corrugated".   Also, = did PRR=20 use E or F units for freight service?
 
Jim Cullen (jwcullen@erols.com)
Model = Railroad: http://members.tripod.com/~= JimCullen
Railroad=20 Pictures: http://www.geocit= ies.com/heartland/pointe/1433
 
---------------------------------------------------------= ----------
Join=20 our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.c= om/forms/spf/index.html.
-----------------------------------------= --------------------------
For=20 assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message = "help"=20 to
"listserv@dsop.com". If=20 problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com".
=
 
------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BDA78E.EE830340-- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jim Cullen" Subject: [PRR] Type of Pass cars for PA/PB [N-Scale] Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:30:13 -0400 Content-Length: 3510 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BDA53F.D0BFDF00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a Life Like N-scale PRR PA & PB engine on order; should arrive = the end of this month. I was wondering what type of passenger cars = would look best (be more typical) to ride behind the PA/PB?. The = choices seem to be "smoothside", "heavyweights" or "corrugated". Also, = did PRR ever use E or F units for freight service? Jim Cullen (jwcullen@erols.com) Model Railroad: http://members.tripod.com/~JimCullen Railroad Pictures: http://www.geocities.com/heartland/pointe/1433 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to=20 "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BDA53F.D0BFDF00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have a Life Like N-scale PRR PA = & PB=20 engine on order; should arrive the end of this month.  I was = wondering what=20 type of passenger cars would look best (be more typical) to ride behind = the=20 PA/PB?.  The choices seem to be "smoothside",=20 "heavyweights" or "corrugated".   Also, = did PRR=20 ever use E or F units for freight service?
 
Jim Cullen (jwcullen@erols.com)
Model = Railroad: http://members.tripod.com/~= JimCullen
Railroad=20 Pictures: http://www.geocit= ies.com/heartland/pointe/1433
 
---------------------------------------------------------= ----------
Join=20 our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.c= om/forms/spf/index.html.
-----------------------------------------= --------------------------
For=20 assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message = "help"=20 to
"listserv@dsop.com". If=20 problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com".
=
 
------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BDA53F.D0BFDF00-- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 07:30:15 EDT Subject: [PRR] Why no messages?? Content-Length: 440 It's been at least 2 days since I've recieved any PRR-Talk mail. What's going on? ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: staffsgtyork@juno.com Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 19:45:47 -0700 Subject: [PRR] Happy Fourth!!! Content-Length: 422 Just a quick blessing for a safe and happy Holiday!! SGT. York ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 22:02:29 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] Hi all Content-Length: 561 Hmmmm Jerry must be back...getting a flood of PRR talk mail.... Welcome back Jerry. Til Later H.Mummert ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Leary" Subject: [PRR] Improving the PRR GG-1's from Precision Scale Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 22:21:02 -0400 Content-Length: 664 The brass PRR GG-1's (HO scale) imported by Precision Scale run very slowly. At best, they will do a scale 45 mph speed. Has anyone ever developed a solution to make these engines run at a faster scale speed (for example, 90 mph scale speed)? Thanks in advance for any comments or thoughts on this. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 22:31:29 EDT Subject: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Content-Length: 1554 Hi Y'all, I am starting to model Horseshoe Curve on my RR and would appreciate your help. I have looked hard to find an elevated picture of the Curve and found one in the soft cover book; RAILROAD COLOR HISTORY PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD by Mike Schafer & Brian Soloman. I am modeling the late 50's and hope the picture on page 21 is close. Can anyone help me with the following questions: 1-Would anyone guess the approx. date of the picture? 2-Has anyone seen a better or similar picture? 3-Was the horseshoe on the hillside cement or stones? 4-What class cabin car was on display? 5-To the right of the building there appears to be round cement area connected by a walkway. What is the black object in the center of the circle? 6-Do the stairs (stones) start up at the right of the cement circle? 7- What path do the stairs take? 8-It appears the steps end at the top just left of the horseshoe? 9-What is the small building 1/4 the way up the hill on the right side? 10-At what date was the horseshoe rendition added to the bottom step Entrance? Thanks for any help you can give. Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: staffsgtyork@juno.com Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 19:22:36 -0700 Subject: [PRR] PRR X31 Foxtrot............. Content-Length: 727 Greetings, On the topic of the X31F by Sunshine, does anyone have the current price for this model? Thanx SGT. York _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 07:36:36 -0700 (PDT) From: andy mulhollen Subject: [PRR] Rockville Bridge Photos Content-Length: 1189 Greetings to all, Well the Ebay auction of the Rockville Bridge Photos is over and unfortunatly we were not the high bidders. Dan Cupper placed a bid minutes before the auction ended. His final bid was $1725.00. The Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum had pledged support to our attempt as well. I would like to thank all of you who supported us and those who pledged money. I guess we will have to see what Mr Cupper does with these photos. I'm certain he intends to print them in some form. Thanks again!! Yours in Pennsy Preservation Andy J. Mulhollen D.O. Altoona, PA _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 09:14:34 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Web page Content-Length: 442 Finally updated 7/2/98 - perhaps our comments had something to do with it? Dick Ross ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: [PRR] Re: Sunshine Models Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 09:48:45 -0400 Content-Length: 2749 Hi to the List, Here's the info on Sunshine Models: Sunshine Models Box 4997 Springfield, Mo. 65808-4997 (They don't use phone, fax. or e-mail) The PRR X-31f Jeep Autocar is currently listed as a "Close Out" fit and is priced at $25.00 plus $4.00 shipping for up to 5 kits. Jerry Breon -----Original Message----- From: tqpj6 To: LINESWEST@aol.com ; Bobspf@aol.com Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Saturday, July 04, 1998 11:13 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] X31f interior >Speaking of sunshine, does anyone have a current address for them? Thanks, >and sorry to digress from the thread. Mac > >---------- >> From: LINESWEST@aol.com >> To: Bobspf@aol.com >> Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com >> Subject: Re: [PRR] X31f interior >> Date: Tuesday, June 30, 1998 12:32 PM >> >> In a message dated 6/28/98 1:06:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >Bobspf@aol.com >> writes: >> >> << My understanding was that these turtle-backed roundroofs were built >to >> haul >> Willys jeeps. >> Anyone know how these jeeps were stacked in these cars and by what >mechanism? >> >> Bob Zoeller >> >> Back in 1991 at the NMRA train show in Columbus, I passed up a chance to >buy >> an HO X-31f resin kit at the Sunshine Models booth. Anybody know if >Sunshine >> still offers this kit? >> What were they used for after the war. Were they still in service in >1952? >> >> Tom V. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >> "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 18:57:55 +0100 From: "John H. Wright" Subject: Re: [PRR] We're Back!!! Content-Length: 2056 In message <899606463.1020477.0@cs6-03.pcn.ptd.net>, Jerry writes >We're back!!! We being, me, listmeister, and the four lists. > >Things don't go as planned, usually, and we had a derailment on Tuesday >night, as best I can guess. Based on CNN reports, a pretty bad storm came >through. Power must've only "blipped", cause the UPS kept everything >running as it should have. However, the telephone line must've been down, >and when it came back online, the previously open connection wouldn't >terminate and reset. So, the jist of it is that everything was ready, >able, and willing to communicate except for some nickel-a-foot piece of >wire!!! > >All back on line now and playing catchup. Looks like 7/2 was last digest. >Sorry, but hey, I needed the vacation...good to be back though. This exactly coincided with me making a total b....cks of my mailing software while carrying out some "alterations". You can imagine the fun and games trying to recover mail from this group:-) Murphy and his laws are alive and well and living in N.E. England! Definitely good to be back. Regards, P.S. If any of you are interested in British O Gauge we have just added a new page on our site for one of our member's layouts: http://www.jhwright.demon.co.uk/psmith/waterst.htm -- John H. Wright Washington Tyne & Wear England Visit the Newcastle & District Model Railway Society's web site at: http://www.jhwright/demon/co/uk/index.htm Descriptions and views of our layouts in: Z, N, HO (USA), HO (Continental), OO, P4, O Gauge and On16.5 Plus members' layouts and details of our exhibitions, news and events. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RLA0220@webtv.net (RICHARD ADER) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 16:04:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] General info. Content-Length: 771 To all, I visited Emporium this last Wednesday evening and discovered that PRR flat car #469613 is still there. It has a wooden deck and has a fuel tank mounted on it. Also the Conrail camp cars were in town apparently doing major track work around Keating Summit. Anyone know anything about this? Position light signals still in tact. Does Norfolk Southern have major plans for this route Rich ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 16:25:20 -0700 From: Roger Elliott Subject: [PRR] N-scale T-1 slips Content-Length: 1085 Hi all! Happy 4th! My N-scale T1 is finally negotiating 18 and 19 inch curves very well and can pull 5or 6 Kato smoothside passenger cars pretty well. My layout isn't big enough to really warrant having a full consist of 14 cars, though, but I would like to improve its traction up the grades. I've put in weight where I could and that helped immensely since before it couldn't pull anything! I tried those Vernex traction tires but without the grooves in the drivers, they keep popping off. Is there anyone out there who can groove the wheels for traction tires? I think only one set of drivers need it, really. Any other ideas or tricks of the trade would be appreciated as well. Thanks, Roger Elliott ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Thomas K. Trower" Subject: [PRR] PRR NEC operations Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 20:02:32 -0400 Content-Length: 458 How many trains was the PRR running on what is now the NEC during the 50's and 60's? Josh Trower ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 21:50:33 -0400 From: "Michael L. Wingard" <102361.2253@compuserve.com> Subject: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Content-Length: 3711 ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: INTERNET:ARRJERRY@aol.com, INTERNET:ARRJERRY@aol.com TO: PRR Talk, INTERNET:prr-talk@dsop.com DATE: 7/5/98 2:25 AM RE: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Sender: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Received: from [204.186.21.83] (cs6-03.pcn.ptd.net [204.186.21.83]) by arl-img-6.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.12) with SMTP id CAA15811 for <102361.2253@compuserve.com>; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 02:25:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dsop.com by dsop.com with POP3; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 22:33:31 -0400 From: Message-ID: Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 22:31:29 EDT To: prr-talk@dsop.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.1 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Y'all, I am starting to model Horseshoe Curve on my RR and would appreciate your help. I have looked hard to find an elevated picture of the Curve and found one in the soft cover book; RAILROAD COLOR HISTORY PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD by Mike Schafer & Brian Soloman. I am modeling the late 50's and hope the picture on page 21 is close. Can anyone help me with the following questions: 1-Would anyone guess the approx. date of the picture? ---It appears that the train is led by two SD45's. If this is so, the earliest date would be Oct 1966. That is the first month that the PRR recieved SD45's. My guess is that it is Fall of 1967, because about half of the SD45 were delivered by then. 2-Has anyone seen a better or similar picture? 3-Was the horseshoe on the hillside cement or stones? 4-What class cabin car was on display? ---I beleive that it is a N6B with offset from center capola 5-To the right of the building there appears to be round cement area connected by a walkway. What is the black object in the center of the circle? 6-Do the stairs (stones) start up at the right of the cement circle? 7- What path do the stairs take? ---I don't remember, but I do remember them being uneven and not evenly spaced or have consistant hieghts. 8-It appears the steps end at the top just left of the horseshoe? 9-What is the small building 1/4 the way up the hill on the right side? 10-At what datte was the horseshoe rendition added to the bottom step Entrance? ---There is a good picture of this horse shoe on page 24 of "Horseshoe Heritage" by Dan Cupper and is dated 1952. Thanks for any help you can give. Jerry Hope this helps a little! Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RLA0220@webtv.net (RICHARD ADER) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 22:17:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] MOW Baggage car Content-Length: 869 I recently picked up a PRR ( yellow MOW) Standard steel baggage car by Athearn. I never saw one in shops that I visited and came across this one at a train meet, and at that there was only one. I only paid a couple bucks (5.50 if I remember correctly) for it and thought it would look neat with other MOW stuff I have on a secluded yard track. Was this a good buy or is the car so out of prototype that this guy was anxious to unload it and I was his sucker? Anybody else see or have one? Rich ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 04:14:10 EDT Subject: [PRR] Assistance needed for Panhandle Pages Content-Length: 848 Pardon for going off topic but I need help rounding the learning curve on my HotDog Pro 5.0 web editor in regards to uploading. If you know this software or a similar text web editor, please e-mail me directly. Since I'm notorious for my whing about the PRRT&HS website, It's frustrating that I can't sucessfully upload "The Panhandle Pages." TIA Tom V. (and Ii've got the PRR Lines West Fan Fest to publicize. Oct. 17, 10 a.m.-4p.m. at the Carriage House Museum in Xenia, Ohio.) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: Re: [PRR] MOW Baggage car Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 09:35:55 -0400 Content-Length: 1805 Richard, Knowing Athearn, the baggage car is probably an AT&SF prototype. This is a hobby and if the car looks neat with your other MOW equipment and pleases you, that's all that matters! I personally have several models that probably never saw PRR tracks mixed in with all my exact scale, true to prototype stuff and can still sleep at night. Have fun first! Jerry Breon -----Original Message----- From: RICHARD ADER To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Sunday, July 05, 1998 11:04 PM Subject: [PRR] MOW Baggage car I recently picked up a PRR ( yellow MOW) Standard steel baggage car by Athearn. I never saw one in shops that I visited and came across this one at a train meet, and at that there was only one. I only paid a couple bucks (5.50 if I remember correctly) for it and thought it would look neat with other MOW stuff I have on a secluded yard track. Was this a good buy or is the car so out of prototype that this guy was anxious to unload it and I was his sucker? Anybody else see or have one? Rich ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 02:49:00 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS page update Content-Length: 1235 Hey Guys, Maybe the jawboning at the convention had an effect. I just copied the updated links page from the PRRT&HS web site. Any of these names look familiar? Mark Bej's The Broad Way - What's New •Jerry Britton's Keystone Crossings - Stop by Jerry's PRR-Talk at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/prrtalk.html •Christopher Brandt's Pennsylvania Railroad Page •Lorraine B. Diehl, author; "The Late, Great Pennsylvania Station"  http://members.aol.com//Pennsy •George Elwood's Pennsylvania Railroad Photos •Michael Irlam's History of the Pennsylvania Railroad •Robert Schoenberg 's Pennsylvania Railroad Page •Bruce Smith 's Pennsylvania Railroad Page •Allen Underkofler's The Pennsylvania Pages •Tom Vondruska's The Panhandle Pages •Steve Agostini's Train Tracks Home Page Source for Old PRR Advertisements and Calendar Art Tom V. II Timothy 3:9 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 09:02:30 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] MOW Baggage car Content-Length: 3452 Richard, >I recently picked up a PRR ( yellow MOW) >Standard steel baggage car by Athearn. I >never saw one in shops that I visited and >came across this one at a train meet, and at >that there was only one. I only paid a couple bucks (5.50 if I remember >correctly) for it and >thought it would look neat with other MOW >stuff I have on a secluded yard track. Good place for it!...either that, or hidden staging... >Was this a good buy or is the car so out of prototype >that this guy was anxious to unload it and I >was his sucker? Anybody else see or have one? Bottom line - the athearn cars are not PRR prototypes. They can be used as "stand ins" since PRR prototypes will definitely cost more. The Yellow MOW was a recent (re?) release as I recall. Yellow is appropriate for MOW equipment after 1953. In addition, older heavyweight passenger equipment started replacing the converted XL boxcars about that time. BTW, that price was pretty good! My local hobby shop guy just can't understand why I won't buy this stuff from him! He even tried the guilt trip on me by saying "I know you model PRR so I odered this for you"...HorseS&%T! My response was to ask him to carry Red Caboose, Intermountain and LifeLike P2K if he wanted to do me any favors (He won't because apparently, I'm almost the only person in the Montgomery area who will build these "difficult(?)" kits! My advice? If you model up to the 60's, buy Westerfiled's PRR Camp Car set. It is SPECTACULAR! Never built a resin kit? Scared to death of them? I was too, but Westerfield sells a "how to" video which is SUPER! Buy the video, and build a simple boxcar kit. Then, go hog wild! My work train has moved from the back to the front, because some of my very best models are in it! An added advantage to my "space challenged" railroad was that these cas are only 40 footers as opposed to the 70'+ heavyweight equipment. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary works in Braille. ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS page update Date: Mon, 6 Jul 98 13:13:08 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 2049 On 7/6/98 2:49 AM, LINESWEST@aol.com (LINESWEST@aol.com) wrote: > Maybe the jawboning at the convention had an effect. I just copied >the updated links page from the PRRT&HS web site. Any of these names >look familiar? > >Mark Bej's The Broad Way - What's New > •Jerry Britton's Keystone Crossings - Stop by Jerry's PRR-Talk >at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/prrtalk.html >•Christopher Brandt's Pennsylvania Railroad Page >•Lorraine B. Diehl, author; "The Late, Great Pennsylvania >Station"  http://members.aol.com//Pennsy >•George Elwood's Pennsylvania Railroad Photos >•Michael Irlam's History of the Pennsylvania Railroad >•Robert Schoenberg 's Pennsylvania Railroad Page >•Bruce Smith 's Pennsylvania Railroad Page >•Allen Underkofler's The Pennsylvania Pages >•Tom Vondruska's The Panhandle Pages >•Steve Agostini's Train Tracks Home Page Source for Old PRR Advertisements >and Calendar Art Yeah, in fact, I called them on it. Initially they had my site last. They acknowledged that they "lifted" my links page and added mine to the bottom of the list. I asked them to at least rearrange it into alpha order, as they have, placing "KC" under Mark's "Broad Way". BTW: They did add a few other links as well, my page was just the "starting point". Gee, maybe the committee to spruce up the PRRT&HS site can dupe all of our stuff if given enough time! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale: http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Horseshoe curve from space... Date: Mon, 06 Jul 98 11:04:43 -0400 From: Rob Schoenberg Content-Length: 487 Cool... http://terraserver.microsoft.com/GetPageByXY.asp?XId=4873&YId=12526&SrcId=2&ImgDate=05/31/1990&ImgSize=1&DSize=1 Rob ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] SALE: July Special: Morning Sun Books Date: Mon, 6 Jul 98 14:34:35 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1623 This month's special in support of "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings" is Morning Sun books...you know, "Pennsy Diesel Years x" and so forth... All Morning Sun Books are 25% off retail price (check the Walther's catalog) for prepaid orders received by July 31. A bulk order will go in at that time. This special applies to all of their books that are still available, so now's a great time and a great price to fill out your collection! Please add $3 shipping for the first book; $2 per book thereafter. If Pennsylvania shipping address, add 6% sales tax. Make checks payable to "Desktop Solutions" and mail to same at P.O. Box 189, #191; Etters PA 17319-0189. Send me an advance e-mail order so I know your order is coming. Thank you for your support. BTW: Still no word from Red Caboose on a new release date for the HO "PRR Railway Express Agency" X-29's. They missed their June 1 ship date and have not provided a new ETA. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale: http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] SALE: July Special: Morning Sun Books Date: Mon, 6 Jul 98 15:00:47 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1194 On 7/6/98 2:34 PM, Jerry_Britton (jerry@dsop.com) wrote: >BTW: Still no word from Red Caboose on a new release date for the HO "PRR >Railway Express Agency" X-29's. They missed their June 1 ship date and >have not provided a new ETA. Updating my own post, these HAVE now shipped. I'll confirm availability, then get in touch with those of you who had expressed an interest in purchasing these in support of "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Will be buying by the 12-pack, so I will have different numbers available. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale: http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:08:04 -0700 Subject: [PRR] While we're beatin' the dead horse..... From: staffsgtyork@juno.com Content-Length: 2833 About the Athearn MOW car..... I agree with Jerry Breon.... "This is a hobby and if the car looks neat with your other MOW equipment and pleases you, that's all that matters!" True, you can have accurate models in resin and brass, if it is with-in the range you wish to pay for that particular car. And there will be no doubt as to their accuracy in details. Dr. Smith's advise on the Westerfield kit is excellent advise indeed. Especially the video--good point! WARNING: SOAP BOX ALERT!!! I run a hobby shop and model railroad as well. There is a great thirst for accuracy due to the wonderful parts and model selection that has arisen. This has greatly helped the modeler truely "model" a railroad. It has also given birth to a new breed of rivet counters who have placed a black cloud of "imperfection" over the hobby. Heck-- my Proto 2K sells well initially, then after the dust settles I can't push the stuff out the door at shows for cost!! SO what's the point? Life is short, the market is flooded with more great things than most of us can afford, and we live in fear of scoffers who will overly critique our dream pike. So buy what ya want and run it with the biggest grin you can muster. If you like it, its your empire, that's all that counts! If you spend TOO much time worrying about every freight car's absolute accuracy, you'll be dead before you have enough stuff to run (unless, of course, you are a collector!). Even the great Jim Six builds "close enough" cars to serve as filler vehicles until something better comes along. So Richard...run the Athearn and use the savings to build, say, an X31F or Camp Car in resin. Have the best of both worlds, but enjoy the hobby! This editorial is aimed at no person, but merely the view point of a modeler on Both Sides Of The Retail Fence ;-) And no, I don't do drugs!! Semper Fi, SSGT York Jn. 3: 16 PS--what do you do when you get a rivet counter who wants you to add HO scale bumble bees on your layout? Tell him you'll be glad to when he builds an HO scale locomotive with scale weight!! (150 ton prototype loco would weigh approx. 3448.26 lbs in HO ). Yes, it has been a boring day!!! _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: [PRR] While we're beatin' the dead horse..... (fwd) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 16:12:37 EDT Content-Length: 2166 > "This is a hobby and if the car looks neat with your other MOW equipment > and pleases you, that's all that matters!" > Semper Fi, > SSGT York [additional excellent philosophical discussion abridged] Hear, hear. One nit-pick: > PS--what do you do when you get a rivet counter who wants you to add HO > scale bumble bees on your layout? Tell him you'll be glad to when he > builds an HO scale locomotive with scale weight!! (150 ton prototype > loco would weigh approx. 3448.26 lbs in HO ). Yes, it has been a boring > day!!! I won't comment on the relative boringness of days, but want to point out one minor thing. HO scale is 1/87. This is in *one* dimension. If you decide to model a basketball in HO scale, the radius (or diameter; at any rate, a one-dimensional quantity) will shrink by 1/87, but the VOLUME will shrink much faster. Let's not forget this. That locomotive, being basically a glorified rectangular prism (3-D rectangle) will have _all 3_ dimensions shrink by 1/87. Let's now _assume_ that the weight is indeed proportional to the volume. That makes that 150 ton locomotive's weight shrink by a factor of 1/87 * 1/87 * 1/87 = 1/658503. 150 tons is 150 * 2000 pounds is 300,000 pounds. Divide by 658,503, and you get a much more reasonable 0.456 pounds, or about 7.3 ounces. So, if you really want to criticize someone :-), don't pick locomotive weight. Point out that the speed limit on a 6- or 7-degree prototype curve is about 30 MPH, and that those 24-degree curves you see on that model don't exist in real life except in street-trolley and narrow-gauge coal-mine trackage. Then ask if that shale on the hillside is real, or if it's black paint on plaster... Remember to cluck your tongue. -- Mark D. Bej bejm@eeg.ccf.org ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kevin Tully" Subject: Fwd: [PRR] While we're beatin' the dead horse..... Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 13:18:02 PDT Content-Length: 3929 I would agree whole-heartedly with SSgt. York. It's what originally drove me (and most others in the Private Road Name SIG I would suppose) to develope our "own" roads. When a fellow modeler walks over to a youth at a club to "count rivets" on his prize low buck model, it can leave a bad taste in the kids mouth, or completely drive him/her away from the hobby all together. Even Model Railroader has succomb to the plight of the 90's modeler, in removing the immortal words "Model Railroading is Fun" from their cover. Kevin J. Tully Still remembering that Model Railroading is Fun! About the Athearn MOW car..... I agree with Jerry Breon.... "This is a hobby and if the car looks neat with your other MOW equipment and pleases you, that's all that matters!" True, you can have accurate models in resin and brass, if it is with-in the range you wish to pay for that particular car. And there will be no doubt as to their accuracy in details. Dr. Smith's advise on the Westerfield kit is excellent advise indeed. Especially the video--good point! WARNING: SOAP BOX ALERT!!! I run a hobby shop and model railroad as well. There is a great thirst for accuracy due to the wonderful parts and model selection that has arisen. This has greatly helped the modeler truely "model" a railroad. It has also given birth to a new breed of rivet counters who have placed a black cloud of "imperfection" over the hobby. Heck-- my Proto 2K sells well initially, then after the dust settles I can't push the stuff out the door at shows for cost!! SO what's the point? Life is short, the market is flooded with more great things than most of us can afford, and we live in fear of scoffers who will overly critique our dream pike. So buy what ya want and run it with the biggest grin you can muster. If you like it, its your empire, that's all that counts! If you spend TOO much time worrying about every freight car's absolute accuracy, you'll be dead before you have enough stuff to run (unless, of course, you are a collector!). Even the great Jim Six builds "close enough" cars to serve as filler vehicles until something better comes along. So Richard...run the Athearn and use the savings to build, say, an X31F or Camp Car in resin. Have the best of both worlds, but enjoy the hobby! This editorial is aimed at no person, but merely the view point of a modeler on Both Sides Of The Retail Fence ;-) And no, I don't do drugs!! Semper Fi, SSGT York Jn. 3: 16 PS--what do you do when you get a rivet counter who wants you to add HO scale bumble bees on your layout? Tell him you'll be glad to when he builds an HO scale locomotive with scale weight!! (150 ton prototype loco would weigh approx. 3448.26 lbs in HO ). Yes, it has been a boring day!!! _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Fwd: [PRR] While we're beatin' the dead horse..... Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 17:09:52 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 742 On 6 Jul, "Kevin Tully" wrote: > Even Model Railroader has succomb to the plight of the 90's modeler, in > removing the immortal words "Model Railroading is Fun" from their cover. And I thought that was because they realized they were plugging the competition! Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] While we're beatin' the dead horse..... From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 98 17:08:22 -0400 Content-Length: 1041 SSGT York said: . . . what do you do when you get a rivet counter who wants you to add HO scale bumble bees on your layout? Tell him you'll be glad to when he builds an HO scale locomotive with scale weight!! (150 ton prototype loco would weigh approx. 3448.26 lbs in HO ). Yes, it has been a boring day!!! ========= Its been a slow day for arithmetic also. You divided the weight of the loco by 87. But to get a scale weight you need to divide by 87 cubed. That yields a loco weighing in at a miniscule 7.29 oz. Now tell you rivet counting friend to build his loco with working (hollow) sand pipes - so he can hope to pull something! regards, Andy Miller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 17:14:26 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] MOW Baggage car Content-Length: 1088 In a message dated 98-07-06 13:31:41 EDT, Bruce writes: << ttom line - the athearn cars are not PRR prototypes. They can be used as "stand ins" since PRR prototypes will definitely cost more. >> Although you are right on the price, I have considered building up one of my Bethlehem Car Works B60's for a work train. Trouble is that they look too good in tuscan in a string on a mail and express train! BTW, last time I checked three years ago Conrail had a B60 in MOW gray at Elkhart, probably being used for storage. I agree with Bruce that the Westerfield camp cars make one feel great to be an HO Pennsy fan! But their assembly comes after I finish my T1 with decoder and Dallee sound system. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 21:16:38 -0400 From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: Re: [PRR] Atglen and Susquehanna Preservation Content-Length: 7445 --------------392FB5324AA297E4DE6E830B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howdy all, >From all the local press (Lancaster News Intelligencer Jurnal), the Safe Harbor Dam bridge is not on the endangered list. Some of the "bridges" are the fill tunnels - at Quarryville on US 222 and below Willow Street on 272. other bridges are for roads over the cuts. Some of these will be filled in instead of replaceing the bridges, like on the Reading and Columbia main at Ironville Road outside of Columbia. The bridge at Martic Ford may be on the list. I'll have to check over my clippings and see if the Safe Harbor bridge was included. cos Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote: > Hi all, > > Jerry recently sent me an article from the Harrisburg Patriot News (Sunday, > May 31, 1998, pp F1-2) on the attempts to turn the A&S right of way into a > trail. Unfortunately, it seems that this effort has failed miserably, and > the article says that Conrail's sale of the ROW to local townships has > mandated the demolition of 10 bridges and effectively mandated the > demolition of 15 more. Six bridges will be preserved. The state imposed > an 18 month moratorium on rail to trail demolitions last October, but the > A&S isn't covered by the moratorium. So, my points are: > > 1) An idea which bridges are coming down? (It seems pretty clear from the > article that the Safe Harbor Bridge is a goner for sure) > > 2) Get those A&S photos NOW! > > Happy (?) Rails (to Trails?) > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and > Director, Nucleic Acid Services > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > ******************************************************************************** > If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup > trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number > of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great > literary works in Braille. > ******************************************************************************** > Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com > _ _ > / \ / \ > ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ > |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". --------------392FB5324AA297E4DE6E830B Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howdy all,
From all the local press (Lancaster News Intelligencer Jurnal), the Safe Harbor Dam bridge is not  on the endangered list.  Some of the "bridges" are the fill tunnels - at Quarryville on US 222 and below Willow Street on 272.  other bridges are for roads over the cuts.  Some of these will be filled in instead of replaceing the bridges, like on the Reading and Columbia main at Ironville Road outside of Columbia.   The bridge at Martic Ford may be on the list.  I'll have to check over my clippings and see if the Safe Harbor bridge was included.
cos

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote:

Hi all,

Jerry recently sent me an article from the Harrisburg Patriot News (Sunday,
May 31, 1998, pp F1-2) on the attempts to turn the A&S right of way into a
trail.  Unfortunately, it seems that this effort has failed miserably, and
the article says that Conrail's sale of the ROW to local townships has
mandated the demolition of 10 bridges and effectively mandated the
demolition of 15 more.  Six bridges will be preserved.  The state imposed
an 18 month moratorium on rail to trail demolitions last October, but the
A&S isn't covered by the moratorium.  So, my points are:

1)  An idea which bridges are coming down?  (It seems pretty clear from the
article that the Safe Harbor Bridge is a goner for sure)

2)  Get those A&S photos NOW!

Happy (?) Rails (to Trails?)
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and
Director, Nucleic Acid Services
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/
********************************************************************************
If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup
trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number
of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great
literary works in Braille.
********************************************************************************
Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com
       _               _
      / \             / \
  ____\_/_____________\_/____   ____________________________________
 |- _______/ O     \_______ -| | __  __  __  __  __  __  __  __  __ |
 | /      PENNSYLVANIA     \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
 |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________|
 | O--O   \0   0   0/   O--O |   0-0-0                        0-0-0

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  --------------392FB5324AA297E4DE6E830B-- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 05:46:02 EDT Subject: [PRR] (PRR) On the Main Line" on eBay Content-Length: 664 Hard back book with dustcover in very good condition.ON THE MAIN LINE The PRR in the 19th Century By Edwin P Alexander with over 367 illustrations.310 pages copy right 1971.Book is full of GREAT photos of the PRR. Item #20246307 Ends 07/13/98 13:54:19 PDT This is really a great book. Harold ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 21:15:48 EDT Subject: [PRR] The Purple Emperor and The Refiller Content-Length: 832 Today I received a PRR document titled "The Limiteds of the Pennsylvania Railroad Freight Service." It contains a list of 60 "Named Freight Trains" what they carried, where they originated and their destination. I have keyed in the list and it is available via E-Mail for those who would like to have a copy. I did not post it to PRR Talk because there are 60 lines of text. However I could post it there if Jerry gives the OK. Harold Modeling the Middle Division ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 06:30:19 EDT Subject: [PRR] The Purple Emperor and The Refiller Content-Length: 4506 The Limiteds of the Pennsylvania Freight Service 01. The Bulldog – Merchandise – Akron to Seaboard Cities 02. Flying Cloud – Merchandise – Buffalo to Pittsburg 03. The Bison – Live Stock-Perishable – Buffalo to Seaboard Cities 04. The Crackerjack – Merchandise - Buffalo to Seaboard Cities 05. Man O'War – Live Stock – Chicago to Seaboard Cities 06. The Packer – Perishable Freight - Chicago to Seaboard Cities 07. The Mercury – Merchandise - Chicago to Seaboard Cities 08. The Salesman – Merchandise – Chicago to Buffalo 09. The Mascot – Merchandise – Chicago to Pittsburg 10. The Reliable – Perishable-Merchandise – Chicago to Columbus 11. The Virginian - Perishable-Merchandise – Chicago to Columbus 12. The Derby - Perishable-Merchandise – Chicago to Indianapolis 13. The Colonial - Perishable-Merchandise – Chicago to Louisville 14. The Invincible - Perishable-Merchandise – Chicago to Cincinnati 15. Spark Plug - Live Stock-Perishable – Cincinnati to Pittsburg and Seaboard Cities 16. The Cincinnatus - Merchandise - Cincinnati to Seaboard Cities 17. The Captivator - Merchandise - Cincinnati to Columbus 18. The Straits - Perishable-Merchandise – Cincinnati to Detroit 19. The Forest City - Perishable-Merchandise – Cincinnati to Cleveland 20. The Eagle - - Perishable-Merchandise – Cleveland to Seaboard Cities 21. The Gas Wagon - Merchandise - Detroit to Seaboard Cities 22. The Greyhound – Live Stock – E. St. Louis to Seaboard Cities 23. Uncle Sam - Perishable Freight - E. St. Louis to Seaboard Cities 24. The Eclipse - Merchandise - E. St. Louis to Seaboard Cities 25. The Trailblazer - Merchandise - E. St. Louis to Pittsburg 26. The Thoroughbred - Live Stock - Indianapoils to Pittsburg and Seaboard Cities 27. The Bullet - Perishable Freight - Indianapolis to Seaboard Cities 28. The Cat Bird - Perishable-Merchandise – Norfolk to New York 29. The Premier - Live Stock - Pittsburg to Seaboard Cities 30. The Iron Master - Merchandise - Pittsburg to New York 31. The Champion - Perishable-Merchandise – Pittsburg to Wilkes-Barre 32. The Oriole - Perishable Freight – (from Southern States) Washington to New York 33. The Remus - Perishable Freight – (from Southern States) Washington to Boston 34. The Accelerator – Merchandise – Toledo to Pittsburg 35. The Rocket - Perishable-Merchandise - Seaboard Cities to Cincinnati 36. The Big Smoke – Merchandise – Columbus to Chicago 37. Lightfoot - Perishable Freight - Columbus to Chicago 38. The Valet - Perishable-Merchandise - Seaboard Cities to Louisville 39. The Miami - Merchandise – Detroit – Cincinnati 40. The Purple Emperor - Perishable Freight - (from Southern States) Washington to Buffalo 41. The North Star - Perishable Freight – Pittsburg to Buffalo 42. The White Moth - Perishable-Merchandise - Seaboard Cities to Ft. Wayne 43. The Peerless - Merchandise – Pittsburg to Chicago 44. The Hummer - Merchandise - Pittsburg to St. Louis 45. The Standard - Merchandise - Pittsburg to Detroit 46. The Home Run - Empty Refrigerator and Tank Cars - Seaboard Cities to Chicago 47. The Refiller - Empty Refrigerator and Tank Cars - Seaboard Cities to E. St. Louis 48. The Dividend - Perishable-Merchandise - Wilkes-Barre to Pittsburg 49. The Excelsior - Merchandise – Buffalo to Chcago 50. The Challenger - Perishable-Merchandise – Cincinnati to Chicago 51. The Vamp – Merchandise - Cincinnati to Chicago 52. The Queen City - Merchandise – Cleveland to Cincinnati 53. The Blue Goose - Perishable-Merchandise - Seaboard Cities to Buffalo 54. The Meteor - Perishable-Merchandise - Seaboard Cities to Cleveland 55. The Arrow - Perishable-Merchandise - Seaboard Cities to Detroit 56. Star Union Line - Perishable-Merchandise - Seaboard Cities to Chicago 57. The Yankee - Perishable-Merchandise – New England to Chicago 58. The Comet - Perishable-Merchandise - Seaboard Cities to St. Louis 59. The Ace - Perishable-Merchandise - Seaboard Cities to Pittsburg 60. The Renown - Perishable-Merchandise – Louisville to Chicago Harold Modeling the Middle Division ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry and Phyllis Morgan" Subject: RE: [PRR] While we're beatin' the dead horse..... (fwd) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 21:42:51 -0400 Content-Length: 3580 If a rivet counter does not like my PRR layout with Lionel type hi-rail and tin plate equipment, they can go build their own and count rivets to their hearts content! My wife and I will build our layout to suit ourselves and anyone who does not like can leave to admire their own layout! I do this for FUN!! My fun! Not to impress someone else. If someone likes it, GREAT!! Some have more money and can build a larger accurate layout. GREAT! We want PLAY VALUE, and like some scenic detail. If someone want a lot of detail and only a little play value, that is their choice. DO WHAT PLEASES YOU! Take from what others do and apply what pleases you. There is a lot of room in this hobby. Have FUN! Directed against nobody. Meant to encourage everyone to follow their own star. Larry and Phyllis Morgan -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Mark D Bej Sent: Monday, July 06, 1998 3:13 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] While we're beatin' the dead horse..... (fwd) > "This is a hobby and if the car looks neat with your other MOW equipment > and pleases you, that's all that matters!" > Semper Fi, > SSGT York [additional excellent philosophical discussion abridged] Hear, hear. One nit-pick: > PS--what do you do when you get a rivet counter who wants you to add HO > scale bumble bees on your layout? Tell him you'll be glad to when he > builds an HO scale locomotive with scale weight!! (150 ton prototype > loco would weigh approx. 3448.26 lbs in HO ). Yes, it has been a boring > day!!! I won't comment on the relative boringness of days, but want to point out one minor thing. HO scale is 1/87. This is in *one* dimension. If you decide to model a basketball in HO scale, the radius (or diameter; at any rate, a one-dimensional quantity) will shrink by 1/87, but the VOLUME will shrink much faster. Let's not forget this. That locomotive, being basically a glorified rectangular prism (3-D rectangle) will have _all 3_ dimensions shrink by 1/87. Let's now _assume_ that the weight is indeed proportional to the volume. That makes that 150 ton locomotive's weight shrink by a factor of 1/87 * 1/87 * 1/87 = 1/658503. 150 tons is 150 * 2000 pounds is 300,000 pounds. Divide by 658,503, and you get a much more reasonable 0.456 pounds, or about 7.3 ounces. So, if you really want to criticize someone :-), don't pick locomotive weight. Point out that the speed limit on a 6- or 7-degree prototype curve is about 30 MPH, and that those 24-degree curves you see on that model don't exist in real life except in street-trolley and narrow-gauge coal-mine trackage. Then ask if that shale on the hillside is real, or if it's black paint on plaster... Remember to cluck your tongue. -- Mark D. Bej bejm@eeg.ccf.org ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 7 Jul 98 7:28:16 EDT From: Subject: re: [PRR] The Purple Emperor and The Refiller Content-Length: 5054 Is (are) there specific time frame(s) indicated for this list, ie. 1944, 1957, 1960s, etc Thanks, kris ------------- Original Text From: , on 7/7/98 6:30 AM: The Limiteds of the Pennsylvania Freight Service 01. The Bulldog û Merchandise û Akron to Seaboard Cities 02. Flying Cloud û Merchandise û Buffalo to Pittsburg 03. The Bison û Live Stock-Perishable û Buffalo to Seaboard Cities 04. The Crackerjack û Merchandise - Buffalo to Seaboard Cities 05. Man O'War û Live Stock û Chicago to Seaboard Cities 06. The Packer û Perishable Freight - Chicago to Seaboard Cities 07. The Mercury û Merchandise - Chicago to Seaboard Cities 08. The Salesman û Merchandise û Chicago to Buffalo 09. The Mascot û Merchandise û Chicago to Pittsburg 10. The Reliable û Perishable-Merchandise û Chicago to Columbus 11. The Virginian - Perishable-Merchandise û Chicago to Columbus 12. The Derby - Perishable-Merchandise û Chicago to Indianapolis 13. The Colonial - Perishable-Merchandise û Chicago to Louisville 14. The Invincible - Perishable-Merchandise û Chicago to Cincinnati 15. Spark Plug - Live Stock-Perishable û Cincinnati to Pittsburg and Seaboard Cities 16. The Cincinnatus - Merchandise - Cincinnati to Seaboard Cities 17. The Captivator - Merchandise - Cincinnati to Columbus 18. The Straits - Perishable-Merchandise û Cincinnati to Detroit 19. The Forest City - Perishable-Merchandise û Cincinnati to Cleveland 20. The Eagle - - Perishable-Merchandise û Cleveland to Seaboard Cities 21. The Gas Wagon - Merchandise - Detroit to Seaboard Cities 22. The Greyhound û Live Stock û E. St. Louis to Seaboard Cities 23. Uncle Sam - Perishable Freight - E. St. Louis to Seaboard Cities 24. The Eclipse - Merchandise - E. St. Louis to Seaboard Cities 25. The Trailblazer - Merchandise - E. St. Louis to Pittsburg 26. The Thoroughbred - Live Stock - Indianapoils to Pittsburg and Seaboard Cities 27. The Bullet - Perishable Freight - Indianapolis to Seaboard Cities 28. The Cat Bird - Perishable-Merchandise û Norfolk to New York 29. The Premier - Live Stock - Pittsburg to Seaboard Cities 30. The Iron Master - Merchandise - Pittsburg to New York 31. The Champion - Perishable-Merchandise û Pittsburg to Wilkes-Barre 32. The Oriole - Perishable Freight û (from Southern States) Washington to New York 33. The Remus - Perishable Freight û (from Southern States) Washington to Boston 34. The Accelerator û Merchandise û Toledo to Pittsburg 35. The Rocket - Perishable-Merchandise - Seaboard Cities to Cincinnati 36. The Big Smoke û Merchandise û Columbus to Chicago 37. Lightfoot - Perishable Freight - Columbus to Chicago 38. The Valet - Perishable-Merchandise - Seaboard Cities to Louisville 39. The Miami - Merchandise û Detroit û Cincinnati 40. The Purple Emperor - Perishable Freight - (from Southern States) Washington to Buffalo 41. The North Star - Perishable Freight û Pittsburg to Buffalo 42. The White Moth - Perishable-Merchandise - Seaboard Cities to Ft. Wayne 43. The Peerless - Merchandise û Pittsburg to Chicago 44. The Hummer - Merchandise - Pittsburg to St. Louis 45. The Standard - Merchandise - Pittsburg to Detroit 46. The Home Run - Empty Refrigerator and Tank Cars - Seaboard Cities to Chicago 47. The Refiller - Empty Refrigerator and Tank Cars - Seaboard Cities to E. St. Louis 48. The Dividend - Perishable-Merchandise - Wilkes-Barre to Pittsburg 49. The Excelsior - Merchandise û Buffalo to Chcago 50. The Challenger - Perishable-Merchandise û Cincinnati to Chicago 51. The Vamp û Merchandise - Cincinnati to Chicago 52. The Queen City - Merchandise û Cleveland to Cincinnati 53. The Blue Goose - Perishable-Merchandise - Seaboard Cities to Buffalo 54. The Meteor - Perishable-Merchandise - Seaboard Cities to Cleveland 55. The Arrow - Perishable-Merchandise - Seaboard Cities to Detroit 56. Star Union Line - Perishable-Merchandise - Seaboard Cities to Chicago 57. The Yankee - Perishable-Merchandise û New England to Chicago 58. The Comet - Perishable-Merchandise - Seaboard Cities to St. Louis 59. The Ace - Perishable-Merchandise - Seaboard Cities to Pittsburg 60. The Renown - Perishable-Merchandise û Louisville to Chicago Harold Modeling the Middle Division ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Paul W. Schopp" Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 07:50:48 +0000 Subject: [PRR] Named PRR Freight Trains Content-Length: 1120 SPF's: I enjoyed seeing the list of named PRR freight trains, but was wondering if there were others. My father, who worked for the Pennsy and grew up in Palmyra, NJ (along the former Camden & Amboy) would often recall a train coming through town at night called "The Speed Witch." If I remember correctly, it was a perishable freight operating between Camden and New York bringing fruit and vegetables from South Jersey to market. Was this just a local name or could this have been a name assigned by the PRR? I would appreciate any thoughts on this subject. Regards, Paul W. Schopp, Executive Director Camden County Historical Society Park Boulevard & Euclid Avenue Camden, New Jersey 08103 (609) 964-3333 spanky@voicenet.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 08:08:20 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] satellite photos Content-Length: 2231 Hi all! Don Ball posted the following address for satellite photos of the US on the LDSIG list: http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com You have to check this out! I typed in Columbia PA, and followed the C&PD/A&S south along the river to Safe Harbor, where I downloaded a view of the bridges, and then followed the A&S ROW (BTW you can see that the tracks are gone...) to the Martic Forge bridge. The photos are 1992-93 vintage, some are US, and some are Russian in origin (yes, you have been watched for more than 30 years) The detail isn't top of the line, but this is very useful for following rails, and finding intersecting roads. I would definitely consult this source before my next railfanning expedition! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary works in Braille. ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 09:15:00 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] Named PRR Freight Trains Content-Length: 1368 Andrew Pavlucik, in his book _The New Haven Railroad a Fond Look Back_, has a chapter on "The Speed Witch," describing it as NE-1, a NHRR/PRR train from Boston to Baltimore. The train carried cars from all over eastern Massachusetts, and set out at Newark, Trenton, Philadelphia, and Baltimore, with, at times, additional setouts for New Brunswick, Camdenm, and Wilmington. The details of the chapter make very interesting reading, and are too much to post here (Copyright as well). Steve Bartlett Paul W. Schopp wrote: > > ...My father, who worked for the Pennsy and grew up in Palmyra, NJ (along the former Camden & Amboy) would often recall a train coming through town at night called "The Speed Witch." If I remember correctly, it was a perishable freight operating between Camden and New York bringing fruit and vegetables from South Jersey to market. Was this just a local name or could this have been a name assigned by the PRR? I would appreciate any thoughts on this subject. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 07:37:35 -0700 From: Bill Daniels Subject: [PRR] Scale weight Content-Length: 1574 --------------775B77826CB82E9F2413410A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Re: SST York's comment about scale weight > Tell him you'll be glad to when he > builds an HO scale locomotive with scale weight!! (150 ton prototype > loco would weigh approx. 3448.26 lbs in HO ). > No, that is not true. Weight, being a volumetric quantity would scale down as the cube of the ratio (87.1^3=660.776.311), therefore a 150 ton locomotive would scale down to 0.454 lb or 7.26 oz. Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ --------------775B77826CB82E9F2413410A Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Re: SST York's comment about scale weight 
Tell him you'll be glad to when he
builds an HO scale locomotive with scale weight!!  (150 ton prototype
loco would weigh approx. 3448.26 lbs in HO ).
No, that is not true. Weight, being a volumetric quantity would scale down as the cube of the ratio (87.1^3=660.776.311), therefore a 150 ton locomotive would scale down to 0.454 lb or 7.26 oz.

Bill Daniels
Tucson, AZ --------------775B77826CB82E9F2413410A-- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 10:49:34 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: [PRR] Rockville photos follow-up Content-Length: 2168 Greetings to Jerry and the list: Thanks to all those who wrote with congratulations on the acquisition of the Rockville Bridge construction photos. The sale has been completed (I picked them up last night) and they are destined for a fireproof storage home after the first steps of conservation are implemented. The owner had bought this album from a PRR engineman 32 years ago and sealed it for long-term storage. The photos have not been viewed since then. They are prints, probably contact prints, from glass-plate negatives, which in all probability don't exist anymore. They do indeed show all that the owner posted in his description on eBay -- the 1877 iron Rockville Bridge (with trains passing), the construction of the piers (with dynamite shots going off in the water), the contractor's narrow-gauge railroad construction bridge extending out into the river, gondolas laden with cut stone, the huge wooden falsework erected at each arch in order to lay the arch rings, the traveling steam derricks that rode along the top of the bridge, workers wrestling to position the huge stone blocks, and so on. The album was, as described, a record of the work of H.S. Kerbaugh of Phila., the contractor for the west half of the bridge. The most valuable aspect of the collection is not the individual photos, although there are some very good ones. The value lies in the story it tells, showing the contractor's work pretty much from start to finish. When you finish looking at them, you understand exactly how that structure went together. Finally, an observation on the rarity of this resource: In more than 20 years of living around Harrisburg, I've never seen more than one or two photos of the bridge's construction. Thanks again to all who wrote. Dan Cupper ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] SpeedWitch (was:Named PRR Freight Trains) From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 98 10:47:16 -0400 Content-Length: 1097 Steve Bartlett wrote: Andrew Pavlucik, in his book _The New Haven Railroad a Fond Look Back_, has a chapter on "The Speed Witch," describing it as NE-1, a NHRR/PRR train from Boston to Baltimore. The train carried cars from all over eastern Massachusetts, and set out at Newark, Trenton, Philadelphia, and Baltimore, with, at times, additional setouts for New Brunswick, Camdenm, and Wilmington. ======== How were the cars moved from the NH to the PRR? Did the SpeedWitch go thru Penn Station? Could a perishable train with the word "speed" in its name be carfloated across the Hudson? Did it take the Poughkipsie Bridge? If so weren't other RRs involved to get the cars south to the PRR (LV, LHR, DL&W, Erie, NYS&W)? ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:48:02 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR Signals Content-Length: 1289 I've been attending the annual PRRT&HS meetings for quite a few years and enjoyed the usually excellent lectures given by our fellow members. One subject that has recieved little attention is modeling a working PRR signal system. Would anyone who will be attending the next meeting be interested in a talk outlining the design, building, and cost of a complete installation? This talk would be taylored for the average modeler, no complicated stuff. If anyone would be interested in a talk of this kind, please send me a note. If enough folks express interest, I'll contact the meeting folks with a proposal for the talk. Tha nks for your time Al bert Werner M odeling the Pittsbugh Div. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 22:08:19 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] While we're beatin' the dead horse..... (fwd) From: padraice@juno.com (Patrick M Egan) Content-Length: 3106 When I run into one of the real pain-in-the-backside rivet counters that needs to be cut down, I ask him if his air brakes work. Pat Egan (no web access) On Mon, 06 Jul 1998 16:12:37 EDT Mark D Bej writes: >> "This is a hobby and if the car looks neat with your other MOW >equipment >> and pleases you, that's all that matters!" >> Semper Fi, >> SSGT York > >[additional excellent philosophical discussion abridged] > >Hear, hear. > > >One nit-pick: > >> PS--what do you do when you get a rivet counter who wants you to add >HO >> scale bumble bees on your layout? Tell him you'll be glad to when >he >> builds an HO scale locomotive with scale weight!! (150 ton >prototype >> loco would weigh approx. 3448.26 lbs in HO ). Yes, it has been a >boring >> day!!! > >I won't comment on the relative boringness of days, but want to point >out >one minor thing. HO scale is 1/87. This is in *one* dimension. If >you >decide to model a basketball in HO scale, the radius (or diameter; at >any >rate, a one-dimensional quantity) will shrink by 1/87, but the VOLUME >will >shrink much faster. Let's not forget this. > >That locomotive, being basically a glorified rectangular prism (3-D >rectangle) >will have _all 3_ dimensions shrink by 1/87. Let's now _assume_ that >the >weight is indeed proportional to the volume. That makes that 150 ton >locomotive's weight shrink by a factor of 1/87 * 1/87 * 1/87 = >1/658503. >150 tons is 150 * 2000 pounds is 300,000 pounds. Divide by 658,503, >and >you get a much more reasonable 0.456 pounds, or about 7.3 ounces. > > >So, if you really want to criticize someone :-), don't pick locomotive >weight. >Point out that the speed limit on a 6- or 7-degree prototype curve is >about >30 MPH, and that those 24-degree curves you see on that model don't >exist >in real life except in street-trolley and narrow-gauge coal-mine >trackage. >Then ask if that shale on the hillside is real, or if it's black paint >on >plaster... Remember to cluck your tongue. > >-- >Mark D. Bej >bejm@eeg.ccf.org > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Scale weight Date: Tue, 7 Jul 98 12:02:49 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1221 On 7/7/98 10:37 AM, Bill Daniels (bdaniels@rtd.com) wrote: >Re: SST York's comment about scale weight > >> Tell him you'll be glad to when he >> builds an HO scale locomotive with scale weight!! (150 ton prototype >> loco would weigh approx. 3448.26 lbs in HO ). >> >No, that is not true. Weight, being a volumetric quantity would scale >down as the cube of the ratio (87.1^3=660.776.311), therefore a 150 ton >locomotive would scale down to 0.454 lb or 7.26 oz. Let'see, should we call the new list "PRR-Geeks" or "PRR-Rivet-Counters"? ;-) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale: http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] RE: Dead Horses & Rivet Counters Date: Tue, 7 Jul 98 12:25:30 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 928 For those of you carrying on this "rivet counter" bashing and "dead horse" stuff, please do not include the full text of previous posts in your replies. You are wasting bandwidth and junking up the digest and our permanent archive. Thank you. Heir Listmeister ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale: http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 12:13:48 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] While we're beatin' the dead horse..... (fwd) Content-Length: 3263 >When I run into one of the real pain-in-the-backside rivet counters that >needs to be cut down, I ask him if his air brakes work. Well, since I started this "horse abuse" session with what I considered a perfectly reasonable response to a perfectly reasonable question (Q: IS it PRR prototype? A: NO!), and as a dyed-in-the-wool rivet counter, I feel compelled to point out that in IMHO there is a significant amount of difference between modeling the PRR (being as historically accurate as possible) and owning models painted for the PRR. To digress into questions of functionality is to examine only a tiny into a portion of the whole. (perhaps a more appropriate question would be to ask why that 1920's model has AB brakes? ). What we are striving for in most cases is an accurate VISUAL representation, not an accurate MECHANICAL one (for that I refer you to the 1/8 scale live steam Atlantic at the Lancaster PRRT&HS meeting). You complain bitterly about the PRRT&HS not taking modelers seriously, yet wander off into discussions of "hey, its OK if I want to do it" (It is, but don't claim to be an accurate modeler then). Wake up and smell the brake smoke! If you want to be taken seriously be the Historical Society folks, you need to be as historically accurate as possible. After, that is the purpose of the PRRT&HS (counting rivets, that is). None of us is perfect, and I certainly recognize the flaws in my modeling, but I also see that striving to maintain the utmost in historical accuracy (without being too nasty to the other guy) in my own work IS FUN for me. For goodness sakes stop bashing the rivet counters - we're the ones who result in newer and more accurate models being produced every year. Happy River Counting Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary works in Braille. ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: [PRR] Named PRR Freight Trains (fwd) Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 13:14:15 EDT Content-Length: 1345 > I enjoyed seeing the list of named PRR freight trains, but was > wondering if there were others. My father, who worked for the Pennsy > and grew up in Palmyra, NJ (along the former Camden & Amboy) would > often recall a train coming through town at night called "The Speed > Witch." If I remember correctly, it was a perishable freight > operating between Camden and New York bringing fruit and vegetables > from South Jersey to market. Was this just a local name or could > this have been a name assigned by the PRR? I would appreciate any > thoughts on this subject. See the PRR freight train schedules on my site. They were clearly named by the RR in the original RR document. I've put off till later creating an actual cross-reference list of all the names that existed at the time (1960) of the freight schedules I'm putting up. (That means -- if one of you wants to volunteer and receive credit for your efforts, please step forward.) -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] SALE-P2K Advance Orders Date: Tue, 7 Jul 98 14:24:16 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1437 I am accepting advance reservations for two forthcoming Proto 2000 releases in PRR livery (HO scale). Available will be: SEPTEMBER/OCTOBER: PA1 PRR #5752A Tuscan five stripe PA1 PRR #5753A Tuscan five stripe PB1 PRR #5750B Tuscan five stripe PB1 PRR #5752B Tuscan five stripe OCTOBER/NOVEMBER: GP7 Phase II PRR #8508 GP7 Phase II PRR #8510 GP7 Phase II PRR #8512 I do not have the best pricing, admittedly, but proceeds benefit "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". No monies are due at this time, but I would like e-mail commitments from anyone interested. Please respond direct, not to the list. Pricing: $65 for PAs and $30 for PB's. $60 for GP7's. Add $5 for shipping, any quantity. Pennsylvania residents will have 6% sales tax additional. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale: http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 14:28:30 -0400 From: Bob Zeolla Subject: [PRR] DGLE Nissan F7 Content-Length: 1329 OK, I went ahead and did it....bought a new car based on my interest in anything PRR. Well not really, but the color I picked definitely had the PRR in mind. Nissan offers the Maxima in a very dark green (DGLE?, no they call it Deep Evergreen), and the dealer I happened to shop at had applied gold (dulux?) pinstripes. Its a beauty! Every time someone askes if its green or black, I get a particular satisfaction that I chose the right color! Since I live in PA and we only get one license plate, I am now in search of an appropriate plate for the front of my new car. Does anyone know where I could locate a PRR Keystone front plate??? Do they have them at the museum in Strasburg? I'm not far from there, and would love to make the trip, but would hate to come back empty handed. Anyone know of a website that offers this type of RR stuff? What color was the inside of the cabs on DGLE deisels painted? I hope it was tan..... Bob Zeolla ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] SALE-P2K In Stock Date: Tue, 7 Jul 98 15:01:37 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1595 I have the following Proto 2000 units in stock, out-of-production, brand new in box: PRR Class Road # Type Notes AP20 5754A Alco PA-1 DGLE, five stripe. AP20 5754B Alco PB-1 DGLE, five stripe. AP20 5755A Alco PA-1 DGLE, five stripe. EFS17m 7160 EMD GP9 EFS17m 7206 EMD GP9 EFS17m 7221 EMD GP9 NOTE: The PB must go with one of the two PAs. If the first PA buyer doesn't want it, it will be paired with the second. Prices: PAs $70; PB $40; GP9s $60. Add $5 shipping per order; any quantity. Pennsylvania destinations add 6% sales tax. All orders pre-paid by check or money order payable to "Desktop Solutions" and mailed to same at P.O. Box 189, #191; Etters PA 17319-0189. E-mail orders holds merchandise for up to one week, first-respond, first-serve. PROCEEDS BENEFIT "PRR-Talk". Thank you for your support. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale: http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] While we're beatin' the dead horse..... (fwd) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 98 15:16:06 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1754 On 7/7/98 1:13 PM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: >None of us is perfect, and I certainly recognize the flaws in my modeling, >but I also see that striving to maintain the utmost in historical accuracy >(without being too nasty to the other guy) in my own work IS FUN for me. >For goodness sakes stop bashing the rivet counters - we're the ones who >result in newer and more accurate models being produced every year. Well stated, Bruce. Although I have not yet amassed a large collection of higher quality models (but not brass), I do now consider myself a "rivet counter" of sorts. That is, for my own pleasure and satisfaction, I prefer to purchase accurate models. HOWEVER, when I go to someone elses layout, I am oblivious to whether theirs are accurate or not. To each his own! I also agree with Bruce's point that any support of modeling on the part of the PRRT&HS "needs" to be one of modeling accurately. That is a must, or we'll see Athearn vista domes on the Horseshoe Curve and, worse yet, (barely) under the catenary!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale: http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Hbg-Washington Passenger Service Date: Tue, 7 Jul 98 15:38:01 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1429 In the 1950s, east-west passenger trains on the Washington-Harrisburg leg were often combined. That is, one train on the Northern Central Branch might carry cars that, when they reached Harrisburg, were rearranged into numerous trains out of New York - Philadelphia for the balance of the trip west. In reviewing schedules for the individual trains, the consist for each might be "coach" and "type 'x' sleeper". Question: When one of these trains contains as many as six "named" trains within it (as was actually the case), did it have multiple coaches blocked with its sleeper(s) so that passengers didn't have to relocate at Harrisburg, or was there actually at least one coach per named train so that passengers could continue uninterrupted? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale: http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE Nissan F7 Date: Tue, 7 Jul 98 15:44:48 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1520 On 7/7/98 2:28 PM, Bob Zeolla (zeolla@erols.com) wrote: >Since I live in PA and we only get one license plate, I am now in search >of an appropriate plate for the front of my new car. Are you aware that you can get a (real) K-4 license plate through the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania? They came out with them about a year ago. > >Does anyone know where I could locate a PRR Keystone front plate??? Do >they have them at the museum in Strasburg? I'm not far from there, and >would love to make the trip, but would hate to come back empty handed. >Anyone know of a website that offers this type of RR stuff? Hmmm. Sounds like a job for our buddy Joe at Liberty Model Productions (http://liberty.dsop.com)! > >What color was the inside of the cabs on DGLE deisels painted? I hope >it was tan..... Doubt it. Was "Olive" in steamers. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale: http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 7 Jul 98 16:11:57 EDT From: Subject: re: [PRR] DGLE Nissan F7 Content-Length: 2020 < What color was the inside of the cabs on DGLE deisels painted? I hope it was tan.....> I believe F7 interiors were painted Suede Gray Enamel except the floor which was Indian Red Enamel. Hopefully no one will tell you re-upholster. ------------- Original Text From: Bob Zeolla , on 7/7/98 2:28 PM: OK, I went ahead and did it....bought a new car based on my interest in anything PRR. Well not really, but the color I picked definitely had the PRR in mind. Nissan offers the Maxima in a very dark green (DGLE?, no they call it Deep Evergreen), and the dealer I happened to shop at had applied gold (dulux?) pinstripes. Its a beauty! Every time someone askes if its green or black, I get a particular satisfaction that I chose the right color! Since I live in PA and we only get one license plate, I am now in search of an appropriate plate for the front of my new car. Does anyone know where I could locate a PRR Keystone front plate??? Do they have them at the museum in Strasburg? I'm not far from there, and would love to make the trip, but would hate to come back empty handed. Anyone know of a website that offers this type of RR stuff? What color was the inside of the cabs on DGLE deisels painted? I hope it was tan..... Bob Zeolla ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT