From: <TGREGMRTN@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 01:46:07 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] NX23, X23, X26 on Lines West (reply)
Content-Length: 782

Ron and all,
   If possible someone should check Mingo Junction. There was always a work
equipment there. The last time I was there it had X-23, X26, and X-29. Some
were still in gray and others in Yellow. Any ex- PRR equipment needs to be
recorded on film, regardless of it's condition. And detail shots of the
underframe and roof and ends should go with out saying. It saves guess work in
the future.
    Greg Martin

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Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 04:53:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: robert netzlof <wb3iqe@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Heads-Up! "Centennial History of PRR" on eBay
Content-Length: 790







---Hal6963@aol.com wrote:
>
> Item number 15729465 
> ending 6/6/98  05:01:48 PDT
> 
> "Printed in 1949, this is the book on the history
of the first hundred 
> years of the PRR.

<snip>

Actually, there are two:

Item 15729465 (as noted) and item 15881898.

Bob Netzlof
_________________________________________________________
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Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg Engine Facility
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 98 08:46:46 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1863

A few questions about the Harrisburg Engine Facility, which primarily 
maintained passenger locomotives:

I have an early Rails Northeast article on the diesel part of the 
facility. It includes a simple chart of trackage. The freight mains, in 
both directions, ran behind (east of) the facility. Between these and the 
facility was a single track labeled "Diesel Inbound". It led into the 
sand/fuel racks.

Was this really an "inbound" only track, or did locos return to service 
via this same track? Or did they proceed north past the throat to the 
diesel shops then return south via tracks on the west side of the 
facility?

The article includes a photo of an electric loco sanding. Some photos of 
the diesel service area indicates that there was catenary above the 
diesel sand/fuel racks and the aforementioned "diesel inbound" track.

Did electrics take on sand at the diesel racks? If so, that would require 
them to return south via the "inbound" track as the rest of the facility 
was not electrified, correct?

Anyone have a complete track plan for this facility -- one which includes 
all the diesel, steam, and electric facilities as well as the lead in 
tracks?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html


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Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 8:13:53 -0500
From: "Laird, Bill (GWise)" <William.Laird@coastalcorp.com>
Subject: [PRR] Track Charts -Reply
Content-Length: 1960

Date:  06/01/1998  08:11 am  (Monday)  
From:  Bill Laird
To:  INET.MAIL("PRR-Talk@dsop.com")
Subject:  [PRR] Track Charts -Reply

Harold,

Check with Dave Cramer, 2114 Sheridan Drive, Madison, WI 53704
(e-mail Trainsite@aol.com).  He publishes a catalog bimonthly ($ 2 a copy
or available by yearly subscription) which includes Track Charts and
Profiles.  The latest edition of the catalog "Railroad Paper Collectibles",
Catalog #39, April-May 1998, shows the following currently available
PRR Track Charts and Profiles:

1945 Eastern Div
1968 Allegheny Div
1943 Eastern Div
1944 Erie & Ashtabula Div
1945 Buffalo Div
1945 Cleveland Div
1945 Renova Div
1951 Pittsburgh Div
1953 Conemaugh Div
1965 Chesapeake Div
1965 New York Div
1966 Fort Wayne Div
1966 Harrisburg Div
1966 Philadelphia Div
1967 Chicago Div
1968 Buckeye Div
1968 Southwestern Div

Soon to be available:

1954 Susquehanna Div
1965 Northern Div
1963 Harrisburg Dist
1965 Susquehanna Div
1910's Type Book: Buildings

He also lists other PRR paper goods including signal charts, signal rules
book, right-of-way and track maps, train schedules, track diagrams, and
various rule books.

Bill Laird
Houston, Texas

>>> PRR-Talk@dsop.com 05/31/98 09:05pm wrote>>>
>Hello All,
>Does anyone have information on PRR Track Charts
>How often were they published?
>What is generally available?
>Sources other than eBay?
>
>I am specifically looking for Middle Division from 1900 through 1920,
however
>I have a general interest in their history.
>
>Harold
>Modeling the Middle Division



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From: <RickTipton@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:13:34 EDT
Subject: [PRR] Re: Chat List System Map Summary 5/31/98
Content-Length: 2363

In a message dated 6/1/98 9:45:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Railliar@aol.com
writes:

> In a message dated 98-05-31 17:04:57 EDT, AllKnow909@aol.com writes:
>  
>  << Eric Lundburg's layout -
>   26. >>
>  
>  A couple of nit pickies, Doug, as it appears I either don't know how to 
> count,
>  ran out of fingers and toes, or can't recognize a town when I see it:
>  Including the narrow gauge division, I've come up with 31 towns sted 26 (
> which
>  seemed like too many when I read it in your post).  These are towns that
>  appear on the time-table and/or figure in the computer-directed car-
> forwarding
>  program (where things get dropped and picked).
>  
>  And my name is supposed to be Lundberg.  But as long as I can cash the
check 
> .
>  . .
>  
>  eric
>  
> 
Eric,
Are these all modeled points?  Or did I mess up the instructions for this
census?  I provided a list of towns modeled, plus towns staged.

OTOH I have 52 destinations for routing purposes in the switchlist program we
currently use on the Panhandle's Columbus Division.

Why so many?
1. The Pennsy was a big system, with complex routings.
2. Some towns had more than one yard.  E.G., Pittsburgh had Pitcairn, Conway,
and Scully (X files fans take note :^)
2. Major passenger stations east and west of us are a separate destination
from freight facilities, for the purpose of switching headend equipment on
passenger trains. E.g., St. Louis Union Station, Indianapolis Union, Columbus
Union, Pittsburgh, and Penn Station New York.
This kind of operational detailing is welcomed by the true foaming railfan.
On the other hand, some of my operators questioned the last set of additions,
on the grounds they didn't want to memorize any more routings (that's when I
posted a printed cheat sheet of all routings, listing city, state, yard name,
assigned track at South Bellefield, etc.).

I guess that makes me                                Rick Tipton, SPF (Serious
Pennsy Foamer) 

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Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:52:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: bubbles@visi.net
Subject: [PRR] Pullmans
Content-Length: 1517


 Hello All...

   In the lastest issue of Model Railroader (June)there is a article by 
   Lee Vande Visse about building a O scale Pullman car.
   In this article he goes on to say that his proto-type for the car was a
   former PRR Pullman Parlor car the "Rotary Club".
   while it does'nt give a PRR car number its safe to say it was probably
   in the 7000 series...The article goes on to say this car is owned by
   to guys from Berea,Ohio. 
   Is this where the car is now? 
   Also there is a old Ex-PRR Pullman near me at Little Creek in Norfolk,Va.
   The name of the car is "Hazelton"..and the car is still in PRR paint...
   It seems this car was a PRR car as you can make out old PRR lettering under
   the current PRR lettering that is on the car now.
   Anyone know what type of Pullman this was and what plan?
   Another mystery to solve....

                                             Til Later
                                             H.Mummert

   P.S. N&W fans...there is also a N&W heavyweight diner and two 60 ft.
        baggage cars sitting along with the "Hazelton"
        ( near PRR B-60 twins i think)


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From: Mark D Bej <bejm@eeg.ccf.org>
Subject: [PRR] Frt. train schedules: Conway
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 13:50:47 EDT
Content-Length: 1056


Guys,
PRR freight train Conway departures are complete on
http://www.neuro.ccf.org/~bejm/Rail/Prr/Frtsched/
but for 3 trains which I'll add this week.

Project for someone who would like it:
Is anyone willing to scan the Conway departures in the pages that are
presently up and develop a schedule of a single 24-hour period, midnight
to midnight, of what left when?  Format would be something like:

Conway Trains by Time of Day, 1960
----------------------------------
       Westbound                                    Eastbound
Pass Thru    Originate          Train#         Originate   Pass Thru
---------    ---------          ------         ---------   ---------


--
Mark

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Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:53:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: alcoman <alcoman@net.bluemoon.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR] Pennsy Days at the RRMPA
Content-Length: 2144

The url you had in this mail was incorrect, see below for the correction

On Fri, 29 May 1998 VVA249@aol.com wrote:

>      Second Jerry's re: RRM of Pa - $25.00 dues for the friends is a bargain
> The newsletter "Mileposts" has a center spread of 4  page articles that are
> building to a looseleaf collection on all Museum pieces - all back issues are
> availible at the Museum store
>      If you live close the free addmission for members and guests should pay
> for itself in a couple of visits.....
>      If you have Railroad ancestors consider memorializing them with a brass
> plaque on the end wall of the new train shed - price was "donation" of $100.00
> when I put my Grandfathers up there a few years back (Edwin F Ross Telegrapher
> P&LE Frank L Kerr Conductor PRR)
>      The Museum's mailing  address  is:
> Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania
> P. O. Box 15
> Strasburg Penn 17579
> 
> Their Web site:
> www.arc.umn.edu/~wes/pennsy/rrmop/

SHOULD be www.arc.umn.edu/~wes/pennsy/rmop/

> 
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William J. Enser          Co-Network Administrator
                          Technical Support & Validations 
alcoman@bluemoon.net      net.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Online System
X2 & K56flex Access       www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network       
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From: <TodEngine@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:44:25 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] Frt. train schedules: Conway
Content-Length: 1042

In a message dated 98-06-01 14:00:23 EDT, you write:

> Guys,
>  PRR freight train Conway departures are complete on
>  http://www.neuro.ccf.org/~bejm/Rail/Prr/Frtsched/
>  but for 3 trains which I'll add this week.

To see the current Conrail train arrivals and departures, go up on the
overpass bridge at the east end of Conway and in a box next to the trash can
you will find the run sheets.  There should be more than one copy but if you
only find one don't take it.  New ones are placed there every day by a local
railfan who works for Conrail.  You can watch trains all day from the bridge
if you like, just don't park on the bridge. 

Rick Rowlands
Youngstown, OH

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Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 19:10:04 -0700
From: Roger Elliott <relliott@mail.telis.org>
Subject: [PRR] Re: T - 1 Question
Content-Length: 2404

Marcggast@aol.com wrote:

> Roger,
>
> I have a T - 1, old with 2 motors.  I am not sure how to tell if it is
> a Penn
> Line or
> Bowser, as I have not been able to find any markings.  I know Bowser
> bought
> out Penn Line, what I guess in the 50's?  Could you help me out as I
> am going
> to sell the T - 1 and Rivorossi Heavyweights.  I won't list while you
> have
> your sale.
>
> Some identifying items on the engine:
>  Dual motors - Pitman I believe.
>  The lower plate which holds the drive wheels in place appears to be
> brass,
>   The headlight bulb is a large socket type.
>
> Your feedback would be appreciated.
>
> Thx,
>
> Marc

  Hello Marc,
I'm afraid my T1 has no markings either.  The person who spotted it for
me 2 years at a model railroaders' auction was told it was a PennLine,
but there's no way to be sure, since it is believed that PennLine first
built their T1s with a single motor and then supposedly went to two
motors later on before Bowser took over and of course the Bowsers have
two motors.  I replaced the light on mine with a better bulb and
purchased from Bowser the correct Boxpok drivers since it came with
spoked drivers which the prototypes never had.

I saw another T1 loco for sale with no cars that was bought for $150 and
it was in terrible shape, not running.  But mine runs like the dickens
and I got ot for only $55. The big expense was the passenger cars. I had
to buy those one at a time, repaint them and decal them, put the proper
size wheels on ($70!), add Kadees and weights. I figured that with all
that work I shoud be able to get around $400.  I may readvertise at a
lower price later on.  Why are you selling yours? My HO club just got
too political.  Got to the point where I couldn't run anymore without
having to dodge the in-house bickering all the time.

Hope I was of some help.  You might try sending an e-mail to Bowser
since they have a website now.  I forget the URL but it comes up easily
with Yahoo.

Thanks,
Roger Elliott


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From: "Greg Stone" <gas@fastinet.net>
Subject: [PRR] NEA cabin car 
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:39:47 -0700
Content-Length: 1675

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BD8D95.08E04180
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ok so the model probably is incorrect especially since it doesn't have =
end ladders. The next question then is does anyone have a good photo and =
or diagram of one showing the doors so I can scratch build for the car? =
Secondly, doe anyone know how long these cars were in service MOW or =
otherwise?

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BD8D95.08E04180
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Ok so the model probably is =
incorrect especially=20
since it doesn't have end ladders. The next question then is does anyone =
have a=20
good photo and or diagram of one showing the doors so I can scratch =
build for=20
the car? Secondly, doe anyone know how long these cars were in service =
MOW or=20
otherwise?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BD8D95.08E04180--


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Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 23:59:41 -0400
From: Chris Brandt <cobrandt@eclipse.net>
Subject: [PRR] Strasburg for the web-heads
Content-Length: 917

I recently visited Strasburg and posted some new photos at

http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/strasburg.html

Please feel free to flame my photography.

--Chris 
          _________
        __\   _   /__
--------\    | )    /-----------------------------------------------
---------\  |}/|}  /---------Chris Brandt---------------------------
----------\ |\ |\ /----------mailto:cobrandt@eclipse.net------------
-----------\ |   /-----------http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/------
------------\___/---------------------------------------------------

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Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 21:28:48 -0700
From: Roger Elliott <relliott@mail.telis.org>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Strasburg for the web-heads
Content-Length: 689

Chris Brandt wrote:

> I recently visited Strasburg and posted some new photos at
>
> http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/strasburg.html
>
> Please feel free to flame my photography.
>
> --Chris
>

Hi Chris,Nice photos!  When you go back get some close up shots of the
vavle gear on those steamers!
Thanks
Roger Elliott


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Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 21:28:48 -0700
From: Roger Elliott <relliott@mail.telis.org>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Strasburg for the web-heads
Content-Length: 334

Chris Brandt wrote:

> I recently visited Strasburg and posted some new photos at
>
> http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/strasburg.html
>
> Please feel free to flame my photography.
>
> --Chris
>

Hi Chris,Nice photos!  When you go back get some close up shots of the
vavle gear on those steamers!
Thanks
Roger Elliott


!!NEXT MESSAGE!!
From: "Bill Knepper" <boxcar46@nfdc.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Strasburg for the web-heads
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 05:08:19 -0500
Content-Length: 1624

Chris,
Whats to flame !!!! Great shots.  What a difference the new train shed make
with the light. Thanks for sharing the shots.
Bill

----------
> From: Chris Brandt <cobrandt@eclipse.net>
> To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
> Subject: [PRR] Strasburg for the web-heads
> Date: Monday, June 01, 1998 10:59 PM
> 
> I recently visited Strasburg and posted some new photos at
> 
> http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/strasburg.html
> 
> Please feel free to flame my photography.
> 
> --Chris 
>           _________
>         __\   _   /__
> --------\    | )    /-----------------------------------------------
> ---------\  |}/|}  /---------Chris Brandt---------------------------
> ----------\ |\ |\ /----------mailto:cobrandt@eclipse.net------------
> -----------\ |   /-----------http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/------
> ------------\___/---------------------------------------------------
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
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> "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com".

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From: "Bill Knepper" <boxcar46@nfdc.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Strasburg for the web-heads
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 05:08:19 -0500
Content-Length: 1269

Chris,
Whats to flame !!!! Great shots.  What a difference the new train shed make
with the light. Thanks for sharing the shots.
Bill

----------
> From: Chris Brandt <cobrandt@eclipse.net>
> To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
> Subject: [PRR] Strasburg for the web-heads
> Date: Monday, June 01, 1998 10:59 PM
> 
> I recently visited Strasburg and posted some new photos at
> 
> http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/strasburg.html
> 
> Please feel free to flame my photography.
> 
> --Chris 
>           _________
>         __\   _   /__
> --------\    | )    /-----------------------------------------------
> ---------\  |}/|}  /---------Chris Brandt---------------------------
> ----------\ |\ |\ /----------mailto:cobrandt@eclipse.net------------
> -----------\ |   /-----------http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/------
> ------------\___/---------------------------------------------------
> 
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Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 04:37:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: robert netzlof <wb3iqe@rocketmail.com>
Subject: [PRR] CT1000's on eBay
Content-Length: 615

There are two 1945 CT1000's on offer on eBay:

CT1000E item 15795297

CT1000C item 16064913


Bob Netzlof





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Subject: [PRR] PRR X46 == 1944 AAR boxcar?
Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 11:26:34 -0400
From: Dennis Rockwell <dennis@bbn.com>
Content-Length: 1242

In perusing PRR Color Guide, Vol 1, page 85, I noticed that
the X46 boxcar looks like the 1944 AAR 40' boxcar which
deLuxe Innovations is producing in N scale.  The differences
I notice are (X46 vs AAR): straight sill vs notched, 8' door
vs 6'.  I can't see the roof of the X46, but it looks like a
different roof (all you can see are the ends of ribs).  I
think that the brake cylinder is mounted sideways, too.  The
side panels, eaves, and ends are correct.

I can pretty easily fix the sill (strip styrene) and door
(MT); I'm not so sure I want to tackle the roof, since
correct PRR roofs aren't readily available in N.  I won't
worry about the brake cylinder.

Am I way off base here?  Is there a better PRR match for the
1944 AAR 40' box?

Thanks!

Dennis Rockwell     SPF(N)    dennis@bbn.com      Cambridge MA

I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning!

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Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:26:52 -0500
From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Bridge model...
Content-Length: 2455

>Hi, everyone,
>
>A friend of mine who attended the PRRT&HS meet gave me a brochure for a
>fellow who's making HO scale skewed (sp?) arch bridges based on Middle Div
>prototypes.  Anyone bought any?  How are they?

Oh yeah!  And are they ever BOOOOOOTIFUL!  One problem I had though was
that they didn't survive the shipping to Alabama (but hey, not much
does...).  Since my problems, apparently the shipping boxes have been
revised to eliminate breakage.

Basically, the kit consists of 2 castings for the arches of the bridge,
about 3 castings for each end, and a center pier casting.  The final parts
are a bunch of pieces of wall board glued togehter each at a slight offset
to make the core of the bridge and to provide the "skew", and a piece of
homosote roadbed.  Personally, I could just as well have saved the weight
in shipping if he had provided a cutout template and instructions for the
wall board.

He was showing prototypes of a high stone arch bridge at Madison last
summer and again at Lancaster, and honestly there didn't seem to have been
much progress.  Reportedly, the guy who is doing this is a perferctionist,
and wants every stone to be perfect (and the available arch bridges ARE!).
I'm waiting for these bridges to become available!

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and
Director, Nucleic Acid Services
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/
********************************************************************************
Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society!
http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com
       _               _
      / \             / \
  ____\_/_____________\_/____   ____________________________________
 |- _______/ O     \_______ -| | __  __  __  __  __  __  __  __  __ |
 | /      PENNSYLVANIA     \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
 |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________|
 | O--O   \0   0   0/   O--O |   0-0-0                        0-0-0  



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From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 98 12:50:41 CST
Subject: [PRR] Bridge model...
Content-Length: 704

Hi, everyone,

A friend of mine who attended the PRRT&HS meet gave me a brochure for a 
fellow who's making HO scale skewed (sp?) arch bridges based on Middle Div 
prototypes.  Anyone bought any?  How are they?

PRR forever!

Sincerely,

George N. Pierson, Ph.D.   george.pierson@trnty.edu
Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College

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Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 18:02:20 -0400
From: Bob Zeolla <zeolla@erols.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Bridge model...
Content-Length: 1781

I also have one of these bridges, and yes they are great.  Mine also broke in
shipment, right at the narrowest part of the arch.  But with some creative painting,
the joint created by gluing it back together just added to the realism.

A word of caution:  These bridges are made in two, three and four track models.  The
center to center spacing he uses is pretty close.  It works if your bridge won't
have a curve coming off either end.  What I did was get the four track model and
only have three tracks going across since I needed the additional spacing for a
curve at one end of my bridge.

I was sort of intrigued by the article in a recent magazine (don't remember which
one, and I'm at work now) about scratch building on of these skewed arch bridges.
It basically used the same technique, except it allowed for a nicer treatment of the
under side of the arches.

Bob Zeolla

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote:

> >Hi, everyone,
> >
> >A friend of mine who attended the PRRT&HS meet gave me a brochure for a
> >fellow who's making HO scale skewed (sp?) arch bridges based on Middle Div
> >prototypes.  Anyone bought any?  How are they?
>
> Oh yeah!  And are they ever BOOOOOOTIFUL!  One problem I had though was
> that they didn't survive the shipping to Alabama (but hey, not much
> does...).  Since my problems, apparently the shipping boxes have been
> revised to eliminate breakage.


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Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 7:52:06 -0500
From: "Laird, Bill (GWise)" <William.Laird@COASTALCORP.COM>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Bridge model... -Reply
Content-Length: 949

Date:  06/03/1998  07:48 am  (Wednesday)  
From:  Bill Laird
To:  INET.MAIL("PRR-Talk@dsop.com")
Subject:  Re: [PRR] Bridge model... -Reply

>>> PRR-Talk@dsop.com 06/02/98 05:02pm wrote, in part>>>
>>>
I was sort of intrigued by the article in a recent magazine (don't
remember which one, and I'm at work now) about scratch building on of
these skewed arch bridges.  It basically used the same technique,
except it allowed for a nicer treatment of the under side of the arches.

Bob Zeolla
>>>

It was a recent (in earlier this year) NMRA Bulletin

Bill Laird
Houston, Texas

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Subject: [PRR] Main Line: STATE to ROY
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 98 14:39:53 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1212

Travelling east on the traditional PRR main line out of Harrisburg (STATE 
interlocking) and heading towards  the freight/passenger split at ROY 
(Royalton), were there any other interlockings in between?

I'd love to model a "classic" interlocking plant, but I won't be modeling 
as far east as ROY (besides, it's not a "classic" design). I may be doing 
parts of the Bethlehem Steel plant at Steelton, and an interlock would 
fit nicely in front of it. Otherwise, I'd just have 12+ feet of four 
straight tracks hugging the Susquehanna River.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html


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Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 20:54:55 +0100
From: J Bruce Andrews <bandrews@apdevint.mv.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Atlas locs
Content-Length: 1086

RICHARD ADER wrote:
> 
> Has anyone tried to use the shell of an RS11 on the chasis of an RSD4/5 to create an RSD12? 
>

Richard,

While I am sure that variations on this have been tried, there is the
basic problem that the RSD12 was 14 inches longer than the RS11. To
further complicate things, the RSD4/5 was 12 inches shorter that the
RS11. What I think has been done before in comercial RSD12 models, is to
use the trucks off an RSD4/5 with an RS11 frame and body. 

A good reference is Pennsylvania Railroad Diesel Locomotive Pictorial
Volime 1 - ALCo RS Series by John D. Hahn, Jr. from Withers Publishing
1995. This book has lots of pictures plus specifications and histories
of the various units.

Bruce

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From: "Bill Knepper" <boxcar46@nfdc.net>
Subject: [PRR] No Mail ?
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:25:47 -0500
Content-Length: 495

Hello Jerry,

Is there a problem or has there been no news in two days ?

Last mail was from Mark D.Bej on 6/2 at 5:50pm ????

Bill 

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From: "Bill Knepper" <boxcar46@nfdc.net>
Subject: [PRR] Cockpit Error !
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:29:31 -0500
Content-Length: 447

Jerry,

Forget the last......Guest on my machine !!!!!!!
Cockpit error fixed now.
Bill

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From: RLA0220@webtv.net (RICHARD ADER)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 18:53:38 -0400
Subject: [PRR] Atlas locs
Content-Length: 596

Has anyone tried to use the shell of an RS11
on the chasis of an RSD4/5 to create an RSD12?  From the photos in
Pennsy Power II
the bodies look alike.  With some detailing would it pass as an accurate
representation?
Thanks
Rich 



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From: <Hal6963@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:05:06 EDT
Subject: [PRR] Sunbury Division ETT (long)
Content-Length: 2284

I received my Sunbury 1919 Employees Timetable today. The full title is:

United States Railroad Administration
Walker D. Hines, Director General of Railroads
PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD
Eastern Lines
CENTRAL DIVISION
SUNBURY DIVISION
TIME TABLE NO. 18

Schedules (1st & 2nd class) include:
Wilkesbarre to Sunbury (12 trains daily)
Pottsville to Nescopeck (20 trains daily)
Sunbury to Lewistown Junction (22 trains daily)
Mt. Carmel to Sunbury (10 trains daily)
Sunday Trains (25)

Special Instructions include:
Standard Time
Signal Rules
Symbols
Bulletin Boards
Movement of Trains
Motor Car Rules
Direction on Branches
Passing Sidings
Movement by Train Orders
Yards and Yard Instructions
Coal and Water
Track Assignment
Manual Block System
Block Offices Open
Controlled Manual Block System
Interlocking Rules
Speed Regulations
Speed Table
Train Regulations at Passenger Stations
Air Brakes
Inspection by Train Crews
Personal Injuries
Equipment Failures
Company Surgeons
Miscellaneous
Station Announcements
Hours of Service Law
Commerce Regulations
Use of Telephones
Location of Telephones
Signal Indications
General Orders

Other interesting items include:
22 interlocking plant track diagrams
2 pages of signal diagrams in color

My primary interest is the Lewistown Branch because of the connection to the
Middle Division at this location.

I plan on scanning the entire TT and posting it to my Web page (see below).



Coming Soon to a Computer Near You  -- A World Wide Web site devoted to the
history, technical aspects, collecting of related railroadiana, and the
modeling of the Pennsylvania Rail Road Middle Division.

The site will focus on the Middle Division, its Branches and the interchange
points with other PRR Divisions, other major railroads, and short lines. 

Projected start-up date is July/August 1998.

Harold
Modeling the Middle Division

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Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 20:02:01 -0400 (EDT)

From: Derrick J Brashear <shadow@DEMENTIA.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Atlas locs
Content-Length: 764

>  Has anyone tried to use the shell of an RS11
>  on the chasis of an RSD4/5 to create an RSD12?  From the photos in
>  Pennsy Power II
>  the bodies look alike.
Yeah, Atlas did! I have one. The RSD-12 is actually a bit shorter (14" or
somesuch) than an RS-11, so it's not exactly accurate. Jim Six did an article
on how to accurately build one, which I can provide a reference to if you like

-D


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Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 20:10:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Derrick J Brashear <shadow@DEMENTIA.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Frt. train schedules: Conway
Content-Length: 879

>  To see the current Conrail train arrivals and departures, go up on the
>  overpass bridge at the east end of Conway and in a box next to the trash can
>  you will find the run sheets.  There should be more than one copy but if you
>  only find one don't take it.  New ones are placed there every day by a local
>  railfan who works for Conrail.  You can watch trains all day from the bridge
>  if you like, just don't park on the bridge. 

None recently; None today in fact. Oh, and the trash can is gone

-D


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Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 20:36:30 -0400
From: "s.a. mccall" <hosam@amaze.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Atlas locs
Content-Length: 1284


Greetings,

  No, I didn't do that.  I put some RSD4/5 trucks on a RS11 chassis to make
a RSD12.  Looks pretty good but is not correct length body for a RS12.  It
does pass but not as an accurate model.....Later....

At 06:53 PM 6/4/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Has anyone tried to use the shell of an RS11
>on the chasis of an RSD4/5 to create an RSD12?  From the photos in
>Pennsy Power II
>the bodies look alike.  With some detailing would it pass as an accurate
>representation?
>Thanks
>Rich 
>
>
>
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>
Sincerely,

S.A. McCall  HOSAM
Franklin, Va.

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Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 05:21:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: robert netzlof <wb3iqe@rocketmail.com>
Subject: [PRR] Official Guide on offer at eBay
Content-Length: 560

December 1942 Official Guide item 16411313

Bob Netzlof





_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


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From: <TVPedro@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 18:32:49 EDT
Subject: [PRR] UP FROM VIRGINIA
Content-Length: 1098



. SEPTA - the Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority that runs the
buses, subways, trolleys and regional rail lines in Greater Philadelphia is on
Strike,
However Buses and Trolleys in the western suburbs, as well as the regional
rail lines of the old PRR and Reading are still operating. This afternoon at
about 4:20 a Septa AEM7 (2302) arrived at the Frazer Yards (on the Amtrak
Harrisburg Line) with a string of Virginia Railway Express coaches and a
couple of MARC coaches.
>From a distance they looked like de-powered Rail Diesel cars.  Since the the
regional rail lines are taxed with extra riders and Septa has an excess of
motive power, it looks like they have borrowed equipment to help during the
strike. 

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From: <Hal6963@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 13:11:53 EDT
Subject: [PRR] Railfest 98
Content-Length: 703

Made my motel reservations today for Railfest 98. Will be in Altoona on
October 3 and 4.

I will be in York on October 1st, Huntingdon October 2nd,  Harrisburg October
5th. Anyone want to get togeather for some "Railfanning."

Anyone else going?

Jerry, are you going to organize us like last year?

Harold
Modeling the Middle Division

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Subject: Re: [PRR] Railfest 98
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 98 14:16:24 -0400
From: Jerry <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1464

On 6/6/98 1:11 PM, Hal6963@aol.com (Hal6963@aol.com) wrote:

>Made my motel reservations today for Railfest 98. Will be in Altoona on
>October 3 and 4.
>
>I will be in York on October 1st, Huntingdon October 2nd,  Harrisburg October
>5th. Anyone want to get togeather for some "Railfanning."

Contact me when it gets closer. I work in York and would be happy to show 
you around. Quite a metropolis, railroad-wise.
>
>Anyone else going?

Would like to, but...
>
>Jerry, are you going to organize us like last year?

I can't look that far ahead for this year. I was one of two Systems 
Administrators at my company...now I am the only one. Will become clearer 
around August 1. Perhaps someone else should take the ball and run with 
it this year. Last year Drew made the arrangements for dinner -- at 
Hoss's -- which worked out well. We had around 16 people if I recall.

-----------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
-----------------------------------------------


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Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 13:40:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Derrick J Brashear <shadow@DEMENTIA.ORG>
Subject: [PRR] HO P2K PAs... out yet?
Content-Length: 519

I note the Proto 2000 PRR PA-1/PB-1 aren't in the Walthers on-line
catalog, yet I have seen none yet. Have they shipped, and Walthers is
already out? 

-D



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From: carl.haslett@lmco.com
Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 17:50:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [PRR] Railfest 98
Content-Length: 930

Harold, Jerry, Drew, and all:

I will gladly help carry the ball this year for coordinating activities 
for PRR-Talkers planning to attend Railfest '98.  Due to non-rail 
family matters, I will need to be in Altoona at least one weekend every 
month from now till then.  So, even helping with background details there 
will be easy.  From the PRR-Talk e-mail archives, I / we can review last 
year's outing and use it as a guideline - so virtual Jerry will be helping.  
And I agree that dinner at Hoss's was an excellent choice worth repeating.

Carl Haslett



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From: <Huber25@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 22:47:29 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] HO P2K PAs... out yet?
Content-Length: 797

I was at Life Like on May 29th and they told me the next run of PA's was on
the way to the dealers as we spoke. I saw the SP "Bloody Nose" version here in
Houston today. The DGLE Pennsy's are due any day. LL said this run would all
be out before the end of the month of June.

I saw the P2K GP-20's while at LL and they are beautiful! I think the EMD Demo
engines were on the Pennsy so we all need to get at least two to run.

Roger

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From: <DAVESRR@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 23:02:59 EDT
Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Days
Content-Length: 463

Hi Guys,
Did anyone attend Pennsy Days today at The Railroad Musuem of Pennsylvania?
How was it?

Dave

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Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 01:29:36 -0400
From: Dan Cupper <cupper@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Days
Content-Length: 2384

DAVESRR@aol.com wrote:
> Hi Guys, Did anyone attend Pennsy Days today at The Railroad Musuem of Pennsylvania? How was it?

Greetings to DAVESRR and the list:

Was there as a vendor today, and so as a result, roaming around was
somewhat limited.  Attended one presentation on "The PRR Histories" by
Al Giannantonio and it was superbly delivered and illustrated.

The freshly delivered PRR-repainted E44 4465 is gleaming and nice; the
GP30 is pretty much in the same condition as it was at Lewisburg and
sitting right behind the E44. Early morning light is best for photos of
both.

Some nice models on display, ranging from Bill Lewis's N-scale layout
with appropriate PRR engines and consists, through the HO-scale
Strasburg model rr club display, very impressive, to the live steam guys
with their 1-inch-to-the-foot (or close) models of PRR steam engines
such as an M1 and a G5s.

A fine job of hospitality by the museum staff and the Friends of the RR
Museum.  Museum Director David Dunn was of course on hand, but also
during the day, Dr. Brent Glass slipped in somewhat incognito (exec
director of Pa. Historical & Museum Commission) in jeans and baseball
cap, not his usual attire.

Turnout seemed light, but then, it's not yet the heaviest tourist season
(that starts in July after school is out).  Weather probably conspired
against it, too. It was a perfect day . . . to be out pursuing railfan
activities somewhere else!

Among PRR-listers sighted: Andrew Harmantas (Sorry I didn't get to meet
you) with beautiful artwork on display, and Steve Sejda (did I spell it
right?).

Maybe someone else can report on Sunday's events. Publisher Paul Withers
will be at the table I was minding (today) on Sunday.  And a shameless
burst of commercialism: His PRR diesel Vol. 4 book (sharks, centipedes,
BLW transfer units) came out this past week and will be available at the
show. Sold quite a few of them Saturday.

All for now.

Dan C.




Dan Cupper
cupper@ibm.net
John 3:16

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Subject: [PRR] Merchandise Service Update
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 98 21:37:03 -0400
From: Jerry <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1098

A few days ago I mentioned that I would be updating the vendor list whose 
products I can supply at discounted prices. The updated list is now 
online at:
     http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html

I can now offer most brands from the Walthers catalog, plus Union Station 
Products, Champ, and Liberty Model Productions.

REMEMBER: When you purchase through "Merchandise Service" you are 
supporting this list and the sites of PENNSYRR.COM!!!

P.S. All Westerfield car kits on special through 6/25 at 20% off.

-----------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
-----------------------------------------------


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Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 23:08:28 -0400
From: Bob Zeolla <zeolla@erols.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] HO P2K PAs... out yet?
Content-Length: 1322

Saw them on Friday at Mitchells in Wilmington, DE.  Beautiful!  They have both PA
and PB, two numbers each.

Huber25@aol.com wrote:

> I was at Life Like on May 29th and they told me the next run of PA's was on
> the way to the dealers as we spoke. I saw the SP "Bloody Nose" version here in
> Houston today. The DGLE Pennsy's are due any day. LL said this run would all
> be out before the end of the month of June.
>
> I saw the P2K GP-20's while at LL and they are beautiful! I think the EMD Demo
> engines were on the Pennsy so we all need to get at least two to run.
>
> Roger
>
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Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 10:12:28 -0400
From: Drew McGhee <drm6@psu.edu>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Railfest 98
Content-Length: 593

Greetings to Harold, Carl, Jerry and the group,

Carl, if you would like to plan any group activities, I can take care of
scheduling Hoss's again. That really was a nice get together we had last year.

Drew R. McGhee
Altoona, PA


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From: <BBReynolds@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 10:18:11 EDT
Subject: FRA Transit: (was Re: [PRR] Re: Repeaters)
Content-Length: 1136

In a message dated 98-05-29 23:31:32 EDT, Gabe wrote:

<< Subj:	 Re: [PRR] Re: Repeaters
 Date:	98-05-29 23:31:32 EDT
 From:	gabe@polymath.com (D. Gabe Gabriel)
 Sender:	PRR-Talk@dsop.com
 To:	bobsin@nac.net, prr-talk@dsop.com
 <SNIP>

 
 >I think this is getting way off-topic for discussing PRR signals...
 >PATH is a color-light transit system - a railroad by FRA definition
 >(and regs - and the only such one in the US, I'm fairly certain),

<SNIP>
 
B&O's Staten Island Rapid Transit was also operated as FRA railroad;
when MTA took over operation and used "standard" NYC subway
cars, they had to obtain a waiver from the FRA requirements, if my
memory still works on that level.

Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA and Niles IL

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From: Mark D Bej <bejm@eeg.ccf.org>
Subject: [PRR] questions on PRR
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 10:42:14 EDT
Content-Length: 511


A bunch more questions, of a multitude of topics, on the PRR are posted on
http://www.neuro.ccf.org/~bejm/Rail/Prr/Questions/

Go at 'em!

--
Mark

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Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Days 
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 98 10:50:47 -0400
From: Rob Schoenberg <robs@gatefield.com>
Content-Length: 1882


DAVESRR@aol.com wrote:
> Hi Guys, Did anyone attend Pennsy Days today at The Railroad Musuem of Pennsylvania? How was it?

A few things to add to Dan Cuppers post about Saturday...

At the Phila Chapter of the PRRT&HS I found out a few items that were news to me at least...
First, the philla chapter is spearheading a project to both create a chapter web site and also get the
national PRRT&HS web site updated also.  They gave out the address of their test page but I can't
remember it right now... maybe it'll come to me.  Plans are to register a domain for the site...
Also, the RR Museum is in the process of acquiring a PRR ND bobber caboose and also a PRR H34 covered hopper for their
collection.  

The weather outside was beautiful so I missed most of the presentations..  The one I made it to was on
how to preserve railroadiana items...  Very interesting and well done.  

Over at the Strasburg I saw the H21...  It's looking pretty sad.  Hopefully they'll get to repainting it
soon!  I was also shocked to see their PRR ND bobber, their other cabin, and two of their coaches loaded
up onto highway trailers!  Heard that they're going to New Mexico for the filming of a movie!  I'd love
to see that caravan driving down the highway!  

To add to Dan's shameless plug, I bought the last copy he had at the table.  It looks great, like the
other three volumes...

I'll put some photos on my site when I get them back...

Rob

robs@gatefield.com  ...  (formerly robs@protocol.zycad.com)


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Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 08:51:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: robert netzlof <wb3iqe@rocketmail.com>
Subject: [PRR] PRR stuff on offer on eBay
Content-Length: 824

Official Guides:
Oct 1972        item 16751225
Aug 1969             16624270
Jan 1970             16623981
* ditto *            16412573
Dec 1942             16411313

CT1000's:
1945 CT1000E         16580800
1945 CT1000          16572230

Track/Interlocking diagram:
Altoona "ROSE"       16450281

Bob Netzlof




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Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 13:22:21 -0400
From: Frank Bagrash <fbagrash@fullerton.edu>
Subject: [PRR] apology
Content-Length: 600

Hi ,

I apologize profusely for sending an entire issue of the freightcars
list when I only wanted to forward one message from Jerry Glow at the
end of the digest. I hope somebody can help me out and please accept my
apology.

Frank



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Subject: [PRR] Opinion Question on modeling a scene vs. a line
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 98 13:42:14 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1827

I'm helping someone with a potential layout design, and I'd like to open 
an "opinion question" to the group:

One of the areas to be modeled is a heavy industrial area that, 
prototypically, has lots of activity. On the one hand, the modeler would 
like to recreate the real thing, but that would take up the entire 
modeling area, short of out-of-sight staging for the main line AND two 
branches that feed into the area.

What are the pros / cons / experiences of modeling one very detailed 
scene which is a "stage" for operations, with lots of traffic passing 
through as well as intense local freight switching, but with no other 
towns VERSUS having the model railroad represent a succession of towns 
along the right-of-way?

The former would offer some dramatic recreations of the real thing that 
space would never allow for otherwise, but would operations grow "boring" 
when a through train comes out of staging, passes through the scene, and 
exits onto staging within a minute?

The latter would offer longer runs of through trains, but would make the 
interchanges "dead" as there would not be room to stage them.

Your thoughts?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html


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Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 15:01:08 -0400
From: "Wayne S. Betty" <wsbcos@cris.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Opinion Question on modeling a scene vs. a line
Content-Length: 6710


--------------8ECBDBA81970C731687479A3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Jerry,
Not to long ago Dean Frytags (sp) layout was featured,  very heavy on the
steel theme.  Lots of heavy duty railroading.  Also, in one of the Great
Model Railroads, was a short segment on an industrial siding ( I forget what
year).

>From the sound of your post, it may be that you'll spend more time staging
than running.  There are some very interesting card/computer systems out
there that move traffic in a realistic way and keep staging to a minimum.
Bruce Chubbs' system on the Sunset Valley comes to mind.  I don't like
spending a lot of time staging things.  On my last layout I had a 3 track
staging yard, but I only used it for overflow storage.

To answer your question, I think the only way you're going to know is to put
some industrial type settings in and see how much you like it.  I like to
sharpen my skills with Train Dispatcher, but I also like to sit and watch my
LS29 stuff run around the fish pond too.
cos

Jerry_Britton wrote:

> I'm helping someone with a potential layout design, and I'd like to open
> an "opinion question" to the group:
>
> One of the areas to be modeled is a heavy industrial area that,
> prototypically, has lots of activity. On the one hand, the modeler would
> like to recreate the real thing, but that would take up the entire
> modeling area, short of out-of-sight staging for the main line AND two
> branches that feed into the area.
>
> What are the pros / cons / experiences of modeling one very detailed
> scene which is a "stage" for operations, with lots of traffic passing
> through as well as intense local freight switching, but with no other
> towns VERSUS having the model railroad represent a succession of towns
> along the right-of-way?
>
> The former would offer some dramatic recreations of the real thing that
> space would never allow for otherwise, but would operations grow "boring"
> when a through train comes out of staging, passes through the scene, and
> exits onto staging within a minute?
>
> The latter would offer longer runs of through trains, but would make the
> interchanges "dead" as there would not be room to stage them.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
> Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
> Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
>
> Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
> http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
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> -------------------------------------------------------------------
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> "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com".



--------------8ECBDBA81970C731687479A3
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
Jerry,
<BR>Not to long ago Dean Frytags (sp) layout was featured,&nbsp; very heavy
on the steel theme.&nbsp; Lots of heavy duty railroading.&nbsp; Also, in
one of the Great Model Railroads, was a short segment on an industrial
siding ( I forget what year).
<BR><BR>
>From the sound of your post, it may be that you'll spend more time staging
than running.&nbsp; There are some very interesting card/computer systems
out there that move traffic in a realistic way and keep staging to a minimum.&nbsp;
Bruce Chubbs' system on the Sunset Valley comes to mind.&nbsp; I don't
like spending a lot of time staging things.&nbsp; On my last layout I had
a 3 track staging yard, but I only used it for overflow storage.

<P>To answer your question, I think the only way you're going to know is
to put some industrial type settings in and see how much you like it.&nbsp;
I like to sharpen my skills with <I>Train Dispatcher, </I>but I also like
to sit and watch my LS29 stuff run around the fish pond too.
<BR>cos

<P>Jerry_Britton wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>I'm helping someone with a potential layout design,
and I'd like to open
<BR>an "opinion question" to the group:

<P>One of the areas to be modeled is a heavy industrial area that,
<BR>prototypically, has lots of activity. On the one hand, the modeler
would
<BR>like to recreate the real thing, but that would take up the entire
<BR>modeling area, short of out-of-sight staging for the main line AND
two
<BR>branches that feed into the area.

<P>What are the pros / cons / experiences of modeling one very detailed
<BR>scene which is a "stage" for operations, with lots of traffic passing
<BR>through as well as intense local freight switching, but with no other
<BR>towns VERSUS having the model railroad represent a succession of towns
<BR>along the right-of-way?

<P>The former would offer some dramatic recreations of the real thing that
<BR>space would never allow for otherwise, but would operations grow "boring"
<BR>when a through train comes out of staging, passes through the scene,
and
<BR>exits onto staging within a minute?

<P>The latter would offer longer runs of through trains, but would make
the
<BR>interchanges "dead" as there would not be room to stage them.

<P>Your thoughts?

<P>-----------------------------------------------------------
<BR>Jerry Britton, SPF&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; jerry@dsop.com
<BR>Visit "Keystone Crossings" at <A HREF="http://kc.pennsyrr.com">http://kc.pennsyrr.com</A>
<BR>Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

<P>Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
<BR><A HREF="http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html">http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html</A>

<P>-------------------------------------------------------------------
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--------------8ECBDBA81970C731687479A3--


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Subject: [PRR] York Railfanning Anyone?
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 98 15:16:01 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1375

Weather permitting, I plan to railfan the Frederick Branch out of York, 
Pa., on Saturday, June 20th. It's Father's Day, and I have an "escape 
from the kids" contract with my wife, who "escaped" on Mother's Day! 
Anyone game to join me?

Time is negotiable. Plan to start just west of the station and head west, 
on foot. To satisfy both modeling and bookwriting curiosities, I will be 
mapping out existing trackage and locations of buildings and current 
tennants. Will have on hand CT1000's for 1923 and 1945 for comparison, as 
well as 1903 Atlas of York, which shows all of the trackage at that time.

Plan to walk 2 miles -- beyond the York Fairgrounds -- doing this, then 
returning. Any takers?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html


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Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 16:42:38 -0400
From: mxb13@psu.edu (Michael Bezilla)
Subject: [PRR] Flyers and Emperors
Content-Length: 746

Did the PRR ever have a passenger  train with the official name "Buffalo
Flyer" between Harrisburg (and points south and/or east) and Buuffalo?
Local folks in the Sunbury and Williamsport areas use this term but I am
skeptical that the PRR itself ever used the title.

Also, what is the derivation of the name "Purple Emperor" that the PRR gave
Enola-Buffalo freight BF3?

Mike



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Subject: [PRR] York Railfanning Anyone?
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 98 15:16:01 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1375

Weather permitting, I plan to railfan the Frederick Branch out of York, 
Pa., on Saturday, June 20th. It's Father's Day, and I have an "escape 
from the kids" contract with my wife, who "escaped" on Mother's Day! 
Anyone game to join me?

Time is negotiable. Plan to start just west of the station and head west, 
on foot. To satisfy both modeling and bookwriting curiosities, I will be 
mapping out existing trackage and locations of buildings and current 
tennants. Will have on hand CT1000's for 1923 and 1945 for comparison, as 
well as 1903 Atlas of York, which shows all of the trackage at that time.

Plan to walk 2 miles -- beyond the York Fairgrounds -- doing this, then 
returning. Any takers?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html


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Subject: Re: [PRR] Flyers and Emperors
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 98 16:52:26 -0400
From: Jerry <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1095

On 6/8/98 4:42 PM, Michael Bezilla (mxb13@psu.edu) wrote:

>Did the PRR ever have a passenger  train with the official name "Buffalo
>Flyer" between Harrisburg (and points south and/or east) and Buuffalo?
>Local folks in the Sunbury and Williamsport areas use this term but I am
>skeptical that the PRR itself ever used the title.
>
>Also, what is the derivation of the name "Purple Emperor" that the PRR gave
>Enola-Buffalo freight BF3?

Buffalo Day Express -- Baltimore to Buffalo, via Harrisburg, Williamsport.

-----------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
-----------------------------------------------


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From: "Richard F. Makse" <maxrail@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: [PRR] CT1000 equivalent
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 16:10:29 -0400
Content-Length: 1046

Hi, all!

Bob Netzlof's recent listing of eBay items prompted me to write about Grand
X's equivalent book--"Stations, Sidings and Interchange Points". The 1925
edition that I recently purchased on eBay, appears to be a Form SCS-263 (the
printing is very much faded) superseding Form CA-60 & CA-61. While not as
sophisticated and detailed as the CT1000, it is a useful reference document.
So, if any of your Tuscan red people do need an obscure question answered
that might be covered by this Water Level book, drop me an email.

I don't want to offend anyone here by pronouncing the N, Y and C words but I
did enjoy some very nice miles on that railroad.

Dick Makse






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Subject: [PRR] Got my PAs today
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 98 16:54:11 -0400
From: Jerry <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 609

Got my PA's today...an ABA set. Nice!

-----------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
-----------------------------------------------


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From: <Hal6963@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 19:16:40 EDT
Subject: [PRR] P2K Ready-To-Run Tank Cars
Content-Length: 1006

8000 Gallon Type 21 introduced by American Tank and Foundry in 1921. This car
holds the record for the largest quantity of  tank cars ever produced.

Available in 6 packs in 10 road names.

I am looking for others to by six packs and set up an exchange so we can get
all road names without buying 60 cars each.

Road names available are CONOCO, DOW, APCO, GATX, HARBOR, KANOTEX, SHELL,
SHPX, UNION, AND UTLX.

I am willing to coordinate this effort. To get all cars you would need to buy
two 6-packs of the same car. We will need 10 modelers to participate to get
this to work. What do you think?

Harold
Modeling the Middle Division

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From: <Da72jmk@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 22:43:24 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] Opinion Question on modeling a scene vs. a line
Content-Length: 1391

In a message dated 98-06-08 15:04:13 EDT, Jerry asks:

<< What are the pros / cons / experiences of modeling one very detailed 
 scene which is a "stage" for operations, with lots of traffic passing 
 through as well as intense local freight switching, but with no other 
 towns VERSUS having the model railroad represent a succession of towns 
 along the right-of-way? >>

I know that some model railroaders want to capture a scene and model it as
accurately as possible.  For those modelers who see themselves primarily as
railfans, watching the action, this approach can work well.

However, I've always believed that you need at least two towns to give the
impression of going somewhere.  That is, of course, what railroads do...move
freight and passengers from one place to another.  Even on the 4 by 8's I used
to build, I always had two towns.  Two towns plus staging will allow you to
represent a very complex network of lines.  So, for operation, I favor the
latter approach.

Just my thoughts.   John Keel

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Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 22:58:05 -0500
From: Jeremy & Soni Helms <trainnut@internetmci.com>
Subject: [PRR] X37 Boxcar Decals?
Content-Length: 2223

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello to all,

I have recently purchased three Intermountain A.A.R. boxcar kits that =
are painted in a rather lack-luster developement of the shadow Keystone. =
 The are labeled as being delivered in 1939.  Is that the correct year =
for the delivery of these cars?  I was also wondering if any decal =
manufacturers make decals that could be used on this car that would be =
the as delivered circle Keystone scheme?  Thanks for any help.

Jeremy Helms

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hello to all,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I have recently purchased three =
Intermountain=20
A.A.R. boxcar kits that are painted in a rather lack-luster developement =
of the=20
shadow Keystone.&nbsp; The are labeled as being delivered in 1939.&nbsp; =
Is that=20
the correct year for the delivery of these cars?&nbsp; I was also =
wondering if=20
any decal manufacturers make decals that could be used on this car that =
would be=20
the as delivered circle Keystone scheme?&nbsp; Thanks for any =
help.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Jeremy =
Helms</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie)
Subject: Re: [PRR] X37 Boxcar Decals?
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 00:13:40 -0500
Content-Length: 4492

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Jeremy--Unfortunately the PRR went its own way when everyone else was =
building the AAR design.  The X37 was not an AAR design.  The =
Intermountain car makes a fair standin; the significant differences are =
in the ends and especially the roof.  The Keystone Vol. XIV, No. 4, =
December 1981, has an article on the X37 and related classes.  Many of =
them were delivered in 1939.  I have seen recent ads from Sunshine =
Models for the X37.  Champ Decals HB-303N would be my choice for the =
circle keystone scheme.  Have fun!=20
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola, FL =20
-----Original Message-----
    From: Jeremy & Soni Helms <trainnut@internetmci.com>
    To: PRR-Talk <PRR-Talk@dsop.com>
    Date: Monday, June 08, 1998 11:22 PM
    Subject: [PRR] X37 Boxcar Decals?
   =20
   =20
    Hello to all,
    =20
    I have recently purchased three Intermountain A.A.R. boxcar kits =
that are painted in a rather lack-luster developement of the shadow =
Keystone.  The are labeled as being delivered in 1939.  Is that the =
correct year for the delivery of these cars?  I was also wondering if =
any decal manufacturers make decals that could be used on this car that =
would be the as delivered circle Keystone scheme?  Thanks for any help.
    =20
    Jeremy Helms

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Jeremy--Unfortunately the PRR went =
its own way=20
when everyone else was building the AAR design.&nbsp; The X37 was not an =
AAR=20
design.&nbsp; The Intermountain car makes a fair standin; the =
significant=20
differences are in the ends and especially the roof.&nbsp; The Keystone =
Vol.=20
XIV, No. 4, December 1981, has an article on the X37 and related =
classes.&nbsp;=20
Many of them were delivered in 1939.&nbsp; I have seen recent ads from =
Sunshine=20
Models for the X37.&nbsp; Champ Decals HB-303N would be my choice for =
the circle=20
keystone scheme.&nbsp; Have fun!&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Steve Hoxie</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Pensacola, FL&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
    </B>Jeremy &amp; Soni Helms &lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:trainnut@internetmci.com">trainnut@internetmci.com</A>&gt;=
<BR><B>To:=20
    </B>PRR-Talk &lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com">PRR-Talk@dsop.com</A>&gt;<BR><B>Date:=20
    </B>Monday, June 08, 1998 11:22 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>[PRR] X37 =
Boxcar=20
    Decals?<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hello to all,</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I have recently purchased three=20
    Intermountain A.A.R. boxcar kits that are painted in a rather =
lack-luster=20
    developement of the shadow Keystone.&nbsp; The are labeled as being=20
    delivered in 1939.&nbsp; Is that the correct year for the delivery =
of these=20
    cars?&nbsp; I was also wondering if any decal manufacturers make =
decals that=20
    could be used on this car that would be the as delivered circle =
Keystone=20
    scheme?&nbsp; Thanks for any help.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Jeremy=20
Helms</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 04:21:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: robert netzlof <wb3iqe@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Flyers and Emperors
Content-Length: 1216







---Michael Bezilla <mxb13@psu.edu> wrote:
>
<snip>
> 
> Also, what is the derivation of the name "Purple
Emperor" that the PRR gave
> Enola-Buffalo freight BF3?
> 
> Mike
>

Rudyard Kipling wrote a story, the title of which
eludes me, based on railroads and railroading, in
which some of the action centered around the Purple
Emperor. This was the crack train on the railroad and
all else either served the Emperor or stayed out of
the way.

Having read the Kipling story first, then
encountering the name of the Buffalo Division train,
I wondered which came first. I would like to think
someone named the PRR train after the Kipling train,
but that's just wishful thinking.

Bob Netzlof
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


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From: "Harmantas, Andrew G." <harmanta@monroe.army.mil>
Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Days
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 08:27:00 -0400 
Content-Length: 519



> Hi Guys,
> Did anyone attend Pennsy Days today at The Railroad Musuem of
> Pennsylvania?
> How was it?
> 
	I did.  It was chilly outside.  Nice inside.

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Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 08:24:40 -0500
From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu>
Subject: Re: [PRR] X37 Boxcar Decals?
Content-Length: 2683

>     Hello to all,   I have recently purchased three Intermountain  A.A.R.
>boxcar kits that are painted in a rather lack-luster developement of the
>shadow Keystone.  The are labeled as being delivered in 1939.  Is that
>the correct year for the delivery of these cars?  I was also wondering if
>any decal manufacturers make decals that could be used on this car that
>would be  the as delivered circle Keystone scheme?  Thanks for any help.  
>Jeremy Helms

jeremy,

shadow keystone?  while built in/around '39, the X37 would have been
delivered in the "circle keystone".  I believe that the shadow keystone
scheme originated in 1953.  BTW, Middle Division makes some very nice sets
of PRR boxcar decals, although mail ordering seems a long term proposition
(my first order took about 2.5 months, and my current order is unfilled and
about 2 mos old).  Important markings to look for are BLT (built), NEW
(last painted - use of this started around 1948), and repacking stencil
dates.  The combination of these tells you if the model is painted
appropriately for your era.  I'm on a campaign to get manufacturers to make
this data more available, like on the box?

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and
Director, Nucleic Acid Services
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/
********************************************************************************
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trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number
of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great
literary works in Braille.
********************************************************************************
Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com
       _               _
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Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 09:45:09 -0400
From: Jim Hebner <hebnerj@clark.cc.oh.us>
Subject: [PRR] N5C restoration
Content-Length: 643

I am starting to restore a former Conrail N5C to PRR.

Does anyone have advice, tips?

Is any one will to answer questions that may arise?

Probably best to e-mail me directly rather than waste bandwidth responding to
the group.

Thanks!

Jim Hebner

hebnerj@clark.cc.oh.us

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Subject: Re: [PRR] X37 Boxcar Decals? 
Date: Tue, 09 Jun 98 09:42:54 -0400
From: Rob Schoenberg <robs@gatefield.com>
Content-Length: 2240

Just thought that I'd add that the Middle division makes two sets for these cars
HBX-1 is shadow keystone and HBX5 is circle keystone.  I'm not sure how easy
to find they'll be though.  Their mailing address is on my web page follow the PRR decals 
link off prr.railfan.net .  

Also for more info on the X37 check out my freight cars pages at
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/dispclass.cgi?class=X37  There's a short
discussion about the intermountain cars there...

Hope this helps...

Rob

robs@gatefield.com FORMERLY robs@protocol.zycad.com


Steve Hoxie replied...------------------
Jeremy--Unfortunately the PRR went its own way when everyone else was =
building the AAR design.  The X37 was not an AAR design.  The =
Intermountain car makes a fair standin; the significant differences are =
in the ends and especially the roof.  The Keystone Vol. XIV, No. 4, =
December 1981, has an article on the X37 and related classes.  Many of =
them were delivered in 1939.  I have seen recent ads from Sunshine =
Models for the X37.  Champ Decals HB-303N would be my choice for the =
circle keystone scheme.  Have fun!=20
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola, FL =20
-----Original Message-----
    From: Jeremy & Soni Helms <trainnut@internetmci.com>
    To: PRR-Talk <PRR-Talk@dsop.com>
    Date: Monday, June 08, 1998 11:22 PM
    Subject: [PRR] X37 Boxcar Decals?
   =20
   =20
    Hello to all,
    =20
    I have recently purchased three Intermountain A.A.R. boxcar kits =
that are painted in a rather lack-luster developement of the shadow =
Keystone.  The are labeled as being delivered in 1939.  Is that the =
correct year for the delivery of these cars?  I was also wondering if =
any decal manufacturers make decals that could be used on this car that =
would be the as delivered circle Keystone scheme?  Thanks for any help.
    =20
    Jeremy Helms

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Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 10:10:10 -0400
From: Drew McGhee <drm6@psu.edu>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Flyers and Emperors
Content-Length: 1714

Greetings to Mike and the group,

Being one of those "local Folks" myself, though from a little further north
at Lock Haven, I too called the north bound Buffalo Day express the Buffalo
Flyer.  I seem to remember everyone calling both the north bound and south
bound day express the Buffalo Flyers. When I got serious about researching
the PRR, I was suprised to find no offical PRR reference to any train
called the Buffalo Flyer. It must be one of those local things unless there
is some connection to a train from the P&E era. Growing up in the Lock
Haven area, many of the more "life experienced" locals still called the
railroad the P&E even into the early 70s. 

Along with Mike's question about train BF 3, does anyone know what train
the "Buffalo Box Car" was? I've seen this train name in print but have yet
to find any PRR documents that use this name.

Drew R. McGhee
Altoona, PA

At 04:42 PM 6/8/98 -0400, Michael Bezilla wrote:
>Did the PRR ever have a passenger  train with the official name "Buffalo
>Flyer" between Harrisburg (and points south and/or east) and Buuffalo?
>Local folks in the Sunbury and Williamsport areas use this term but I am
>skeptical that the PRR itself ever used the title.
>
>Also, what is the derivation of the name "Purple Emperor" that the PRR gave
>Enola-Buffalo freight BF3?
>
>Mike


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From: David Carey <dccareyd@ac1.co.ada.id.us>
Subject: [PRR] PRR:  Baldwin AS-16's on PRSL
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 10:10:58 -0600
Content-Length: 547

	Were the Baldwin AS-16's that operated on the Pennsylvania
Reading Seashore Line ever lettered for the Pennsylvania or were they
always lettered for the PRSL?     Were they black or DGLE?

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Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 14:18:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Derrick J Brashear <shadow@DEMENTIA.ORG>
Subject: [PRR] summer Keystone issue
Content-Length: 557

It was in my mailbox about 20 minutes ago. Various interesting things,
including a review of Triumph 1 and of the HO scale New Freedom depot.

I haven't read much yet, but it looks good....

-D


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From: "Richard F. Makse" <maxrail@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR:  Baldwin AS-16's on PRSL
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 14:24:17 -0400
Content-Length: 1413

David Carey wrote:

> Were the Baldwin AS-16's that operated on the Pennsylvania
>Reading Seashore Line ever lettered for the Pennsylvania or were they
>always lettered for the PRSL?     Were they black or DGLE?

They were built for and lettered PRSL (I believe the PRR bought AS-616's).
What makes it confusing is that 6011-6016 originally came in a dark
green--which was not DGLE but the station green used on PRSL stations. It
always appeared to me, having seen PRR DGLE alongside PRSL motive power,
that the PRSL did use DGLE until the Penn Central years when the PRSL
started repainting its motive power in what I thought was black. At that
point, it looked black to me but I was so used to watching the PRSL's
uniformly unwashed locomotives that it was hard to tell. Maybe someone else
out there can set the total record straight. I only wish that I had a
recording of those Baldwins because they did have a distinctive sound.

Reading AS-16's did, however, run on the PRSL to supplement PRSL power in
the late 50's.

Dick Makse


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From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 98 14:41:49 CST
Subject: Re: [PRR] Opinion Question on modeling a scene vs. a line
Content-Length: 3324

>One of the areas to be modeled is a heavy industrial area that, 
>prototypically, has lots of activity. On the one hand, the modeler would 
>like to recreate the real thing, but that would take up the entire 
>modeling area, short of out-of-sight staging for the main line AND two 
>branches that feed into the area.

Hi, all,

My 2 cents worth - if you plan to operate this layout, your decision might 
in part be based on:

a) the number of operators you want to have working at any one time.  More 
towns (esp. if there is local switching occasionally) keeps more crew 
occupied.  In my experience, a large concentrated area usually needs to be 
run by one, maybe two, people.  Also, if it's very intense, this can drive 
some operators away.  I'm part of four operating groups and there have been 
problems with two layouts in which there is a large yard with much 
activity.  Some guys have stopped coming because that level of intensity is 
not their idea of fun.

b) space considerations.  On both of the above layouts, the aisle size 
makes it difficult for even two people to work this area together.  More 
concentrated operation makes for more concentrated operators.

c) if you plan to operate with a timetable, having one area through which 
everything comes and goes has potential to be an operating bottleneck.  If 
things get screwed up there, everything else on the schedule gets affected.

d) if you really love industrial switching, then go with the built-up 
area.  Another of my operating group (Ed Lorence's L&S Div of the B&O in 
last October's RMC) has built an addition with this sort of switching.  
It's not subject to operating schedules and a couple of our crew love 
nothing better than to loose themselves in the industrial trackage 
switching.

e) Don't know if what follows applies to anyone but me, but in trying to 
recreate (at two places on my layout, Denholm and Port Royal, actual track 
plans, they turn out not to work very well for the kind of operating I and 
my crew enjoy - modest timetable operation with lots of local switching.  
Consequently I modified each area in small ways that have made them more 
fun to operate.  However, in one area of the NG, Blairs Mills, I've pretty 
closely followed the original track plan (condensed).  Here this has 
created challenges - some of the guys start to complain that there isn't 
enough track but many then add "but then the real railroad  didn't have 
enough track either."  If you really want to re-create the actual feel of a 
real place and the railroading it involved, then go with the repolica of 
the real thing.

All of the above is, of course, IMHO.

BUT maybe it would be fun for those of you out there with the operations 
bug to compare notes on how you operate your PRR layout.

PRR forever!

Sincerely,

George N. Pierson, Ph.D.   george.pierson@trnty.edu
Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College

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Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 20:51:00 -0400
From: Christopher Chany <no-soup-4-you@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: [PRR] PRR Engines
Content-Length: 1083

Hi every one,
I'm new to the list so excuse any Faux-pas.  A fewquick questions.

1)Bachman's baby Train master PRR Prototype? If so where found?
2)I heard someone was going to make PRR ballast, if not what is
appropriate for main line application.
3)Anyone know anything about the resin Erie-builts from Novatech Canada?
4)Saw the PRR Pa's at Valley Model trains NY They looked Great! Did PRR
ever have Tuscan red PAs.
5) Finally when i was young I use to take the EB Dusquense(sp?) from
Harrisburg to NY it carried a car that had a small parlor at one end
coach seats in the middle and a snack bar counter at the other end.
What class was it and have plans been published.
Thanks,
Chris
modeling the PRR in Ho

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Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 21:30:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Derrick J Brashear <shadow@DEMENTIA.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Engines
Content-Length: 963


>  1)Bachman's baby Train master PRR Prototype? If so where found?

Nope. Wrong phase, totally different body style. Could be bashed into something
close, but would need a bit of work.
 
>  3)Anyone know anything about the resin Erie-builts from Novatech Canada?

Took them forever to fill the orders. Decent looking, not great, but given that
it's this or brass....

If you can order them through a distributor or shop, that way is better because
these folks are flaky.

>  4)Saw the PRR Pa's at Valley Model trains NY They looked Great! Did PRR
>  ever have Tuscan red PAs.

Yes. 

-D

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Subject: [PRR] Track Fires
From: ptrmgtsvc@juno.com (Michael E. Allen)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 01:10:00 EDT
Content-Length: 1286

After a long discussion w/ the local fire chief  [who was rightfully
paranoid about the wire]  I have a couple of questions to throw out to
the list[s] [especially Eric Sondeen & Rich Dean]:

1. Has anyone out there ever seen a tie fire which they can confirm was
started by a cigarette?

2. What is the consensus [ok, is there a consensus?] on how to handle
them?

[For my purposes a tie fire is a defined as a limit number of ties
contained in the track bed with no critical or hazardous exposures.]

MEA
______________________________
PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY        PTRMgtSvc@Juno.com
Management Services                                   Telephone
609-683-0356

_____________________________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 5:59:46 -0500
From: "Laird, Bill (GWise)" <William.Laird@coastalcorp.com>
Subject: [PRR] PRR Engines -Reply
Content-Length: 1683

Date:  06/10/1998  05:55 am  (Wednesday)  
From:  Bill Laird
To:  INET.MAIL("PRR-Talk@dsop.com")
Subject:  [PRR] PRR Engines -Reply

>>> PRR-Talk@dsop.com  6/9/98, 07:51pm >>>

>3)Anyone know anything about the resin Erie-builts from Novatech
Canada?

DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH NOVATECH!  Their business practices are
awful.  I had to get Model Railroader Magazine (I got them involved
because Novatech advertises there) and the Canadian government to
apply pressure on Novatech to fill my order and it took over 6 months
after they received my full payment for merchandise.  As Derrick
stated the Erie built resin shells are okay but not great.  If you
absolutely must have a Novatech product get a dealer to order from
them and don't pay anything until the merchandise is in your hands. 
My story is not unique.  Others on the internet have posted tails of
having Novatech charge their credit cards and not deliver merchandise
and failure to give refunds to unsatisfied customers (although they
advertise a cheerful refund policy).  I think I spent as much on
international telephone calls trying to get my order from Novatech as
I did on the merchandise.  For months, each time I called them they
lied to me as said the order had just shipped.  KEEP CLEAR OF
NOVATECH.

Bill Laird
Houston, Texas


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From: <Hal6963@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 07:23:52 EDT
Subject: [PRR] Denholm Coaling Station
Content-Length: 539

Does anyone know of a source of information, pictures, etc. for the coaling
station and ash pits at Denholm in the Middle Division?

Thanks

Harold
Modeling the Middle Division

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Subject: Re: [PRR] Denholm Coaling Station
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 98 07:48:25 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1085

On 6/10/98 7:23 AM, Hal6963@aol.com (Hal6963@aol.com) wrote:

>Does anyone know of a source of information, pictures, etc. for the coaling
>station and ash pits at Denholm in the Middle Division?

There is a Rails Northeast issue (have to check which one) that contained 
a track chart for the area.

There are two photos of the station in Kalmbach's "Heart of the 
Pennsylvania Railroad Book".

Just for starters.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html


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From: <Bobspf@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 09:14:47 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Engines
Content-Length: 1756

In a message dated 98-06-09 21:08:25 EDT, Christopher Chaney writes:

<<
 2)I heard someone was going to make PRR ballast, if not what is
 appropriate for main line application.
  4)Saw the PRR Pa's at Valley Model trains NY They looked Great! Did PRR
 ever have Tuscan red PAs.
 5) Finally when i was young I use to take the EB Dusquense(sp?) from
 Harrisburg to NY it carried a car that had a small parlor at one end
 coach seats in the middle and a snack bar counter at the other end.
 What class was it and have plans been published. >>

I'll let others answer 1 and 3.
2. Yes, PRR ballast is available.  I'll get you the name of the vendor next
hobby shop visit or if I can find the wrapper for package at Club where I laid
on an interchange track (to get some Pennsy religion in these Wisconsin guys
:-)).
4. Yes. In both 5-stripe and sngle broad stripe versions.  Also DGLE narrow
stripe on two A units.
5. Pullman plan 4019 and variations A, B, M, N & S. Plans for 6 cars published
in Keystone Vol. 22, NO. 1, Spring 1989.
"Courageous" and "Enterprise" were used on Duquesne.
Bethllehem Car Works has (or had) kit.  Beautiful etched brass sides with
Rivarossi body for base. Haven't studied kit to determine which variation (s)
it represents. No. 37 on my list of projects to complete (just completed an
X32, GLF, and two Sunshine FMs).

Bob Zoeller
Fox Point, WI

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From: <Bobspf@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 09:23:45 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Engines -Reply
Content-Length: 780

In a message dated 98-06-10 07:03:29 EDT, Bill Laird writes:

<< DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH NOVATECH!  Their business practices are
 awful.  >>

For what its worth, there is a vendor who occcasionally appears at the monthly
GMTS in Wheaton, Ill who has some shells for sale.  Maybe he makes it to other
GATS shows. You could avoid the troubles Bill writes about and maybe pick a
shell with best casting.

Bob Zoeller

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From: <SUVCWORR@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 09:51:09 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Engines -Reply
Content-Length: 1526

In a message dated 98-06-10 07:03:29 EDT, William.Laird@coastalcorp.com
writes:

<< DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH NOVATECH!  Their business practices are
 awful.  I had to get Model Railroader Magazine (I got them involved
 because Novatech advertises there) and the Canadian government to
 apply pressure on Novatech to fill my order and it took over 6 months
 after they received my full payment for merchandise.  As Derrick
 stated the Erie built resin shells are okay but not great.  If you
 absolutely must have a Novatech product get a dealer to order from
 them and don't pay anything until the merchandise is in your hands. 
 My story is not unique.  Others on the internet have posted tails of
 having Novatech charge their credit cards and not deliver merchandise
 and failure to give refunds to unsatisfied customers (although they
 advertise a cheerful refund policy).  I think I spent as much on
 international telephone calls trying to get my order from Novatech as
 I did on the merchandise.  For months, each time I called them they
 lied to me as said the order had just shipped.  KEEP CLEAR OF
 NOVATECH.
  >>
Ditto and amen.

Rich Orr

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Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 16:19:49 -0500
From: Dave Pfeiffer <dpfeiffr@mail13.voicenet.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Denholm Coaling Station
Content-Length: 1123

Harold,

        The Keystone had a very good article on the Denholm warf several
years ago.  I'll try to locate the article.

        Dave Pfeiffer


At 07:23 AM 6/10/98 EDT, Hal6963@aol.com wrote:
>Does anyone know of a source of information, pictures, etc. for the coaling
>station and ash pits at Denholm in the Middle Division?
>
>Thanks
>
>Harold
>Modeling the Middle Division
>
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From: pennsy@alphalink.com.au (Mike Molloy)
Subject: Re: [PRR] Track Fires
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:06:17 GMT
Content-Length: 1909

On Wed, 10 Jun 1998 01:10:00 EDT, Michael E. Allen wrote:

>After a long discussion w/ the local fire chief  [who was rightfully
>paranoid about the wire]  I have a couple of questions to throw out to
>the list[s] [especially Eric Sondeen & Rich Dean]:
>
>1. Has anyone out there ever seen a tie fire which they can confirm was
>started by a cigarette?
>
>2. What is the consensus [ok, is there a consensus?] on how to handle
>them?
>
>[For my purposes a tie fire is a defined as a limit number of ties
>contained in the track bed with no critical or hazardous exposures.]
>
>MEA
>______________________________
>PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY        PTRMgtSvc@Juno.com
>Management Services                                   Telephone
>609-683-0356
>

Hi Michael,

I was employed as train crew here in Victoria, Australia for ten
years.

In that time I witnessed many tie (called sleepers here) fires and
nearly all of them were caused by cigarettes that we assumed were
flung from a passing train. All of them were in our summer season.

Our standard response to a fire depended on the location. If we were
near a manned station then we would report it upon arrival. If,
however, we were in a remote location and on a pickup run (local
freight) then we would stop the train and extinguish it ourselves. 

You must remember that our climate is much drier that most of the U.S.
and therefore bushfire (forrest fire) is a much bigger problem here.

Hope this gives you the information which you seek.

Cheers,

Mike

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Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 11:13:32 -0400
From: mxb13@psu.edu (Michael Bezilla)
Subject: Re: [PRR] Flyers and Emperors
Content-Length: 1099

Dan, I'm think if this "flyer" term was in fact used by the PRR, maybe it
had something to do with trains running to the world's fair (exposition) in
Buffalo, that would be c. 1900-1901. -m


>I was skeptical, too, about "Buffalo Flyer" but not long ago saw
>something that seemed to corroborate the existence of this name. Will
>have to try to look it up.
>
>Also, not that it proves anything, but one of the artifacts I acquired
>for use in the Altoona RR museum's new/old facility that just opened was
>a piece of sheet music, circa 1910, with a title something like "Buffalo
>Flyer Two-Step" or maybe "On the Buffalo Flyer."  On the cover was a
>train with the letters P.R.R. prominently displayed on the tender.
>
>Dan



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From: "Liberty" <liberty@infonline.net>
Subject: [PRR] something new.....
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 11:55:10 -0400
Content-Length: 1413

Hi folks,

We are still working on all fronts (K4 Streamline, K5, Sharks, and N8
Cabin,etc.)

However we are going to have to push back the timelines by 4 to 6 months
due to a custom run project we are currently running, that has been
expanded.

The N8 should be up and running within the next 60 - 90 days though.

Also, we have aquired the rights to produce a Pennsy Shark (BP-20) in N
scale
we have the A unit shell running now, and the B unit to follow soon.  These
are designed to fit on a stretched Con Cor PA underbody/mech.  As we only
have to mold and cast these, they will run quickly.  In fact, we will be
incorporating a line of approx. 30 - 40 different N scale shells, that were
mastered by Jim Semikoski of Texas.  Many of these were previously offered
via 'Jim's N Scale Shells.   Liberty Models has reached an agreement with
Jim to produce, market and sell these items !!

If you are interested in N scale diesel shells, please e-mail for more
details.

Thanks,

Joe Zappa & Ray Gill,
Liberty Model Productions


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Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 13:18:43 -0400
From: mxb13@psu.edu (Michael Bezilla)
Subject: Re: [PRR] Flyers and Emperors
Content-Length: 1794

The only Kipling rr story I know is called ".007" so I went back and read
it and sure enough, Bob is right, there is a Purple Emperor in it. On one
page it seems it seems to be a passenger train -- "the millionaires
express" -- but on another, it's the "six-coupled" locomotive that pulls
the express.

Anyway, the short story dates from the 1890s and it is set mostly in a
roundhouse, and the locomotives talk and take on human qualities. The
Purple Emperor is "Master of the Lodge" at the roundhouse, where.007, a
4-4-0, is not accepted by some of the other engines because he is new and
untried. There are a number of references to the PRR. I believe the story
was recently reprinted in an anthology of rr fiction.

But why the PRR would name a freight train after the Purple Emperor,
whether it was a crack passenger train or a passenger locomotive, remains a
mystery.


>Rudyard Kipling wrote a story, the title of which
>eludes me, based on railroads and railroading, in
>which some of the action centered around the Purple
>Emperor. This was the crack train on the railroad and
>all else either served the Emperor or stayed out of
>the way.
>
>Having read the Kipling story first, then
>encountering the name of the Buffalo Division train,
>I wondered which came first. I would like to think
>someone named the PRR train after the Kipling train,
>but that's just wishful thinking.
>
>Bob Netzlof



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Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 12:36:25 -0500
From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu>
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Engines
Content-Length: 2305

Hi Chris, and welcome to the list!

>Hi every one,
>I'm new to the list so excuse any Faux-pas.  A fewquick questions.

>2)I heard someone was going to make PRR ballast, if not what is
>appropriate for main line application.

Arizona Rock & Mineral Co. at:
http://www.northlink.com/~azrock/index.html
They make very nice scale ballast and have a PRR variety that a number of
folks have said is very realistic.  I have had very good service working
directly with these folks.  They also make a lot of different rock products.

>3)Anyone know anything about the resin Erie-builts from Novatech Canada?
>4)Saw the PRR Pa's at Valley Model trains NY They looked Great! Did PRR
>ever have Tuscan red PAs.

Yes, even when regeared for dual service, some of these units maintained
Tuscan paint.

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and
Director, Nucleic Acid Services
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/
********************************************************************************
If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup
trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number
of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great
literary works in Braille.
********************************************************************************
Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com
       _               _
      / \             / \
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Subject: [PRR] If you want PAs...
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 98 16:43:46 -0400
From: Jerry <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 934

Just a head's up:

As with other Proto 200 runs, the PA's are in short supply. Most 
distributors -- who in turn sell to hobby shops -- are already sold out. 
That's it; no more; no chance to reorder!

So, if you want them, order them from your favorite mail order place now. 
I got mine from Train World (see MR). PA's were $52.95 and PB's were 
$27.95.

-----------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
-----------------------------------------------


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From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 98 14:53:31 CST
Subject: Re: [PRR] Denholm Coaling Station
Content-Length: 2047

>Does anyone know of a source of information, pictures, etc. for the coaling
>station and ash pits at Denholm in the Middle Division?

Hi, all,

Yes, there was a complete KEYSTONE article on Denholm from the early 
1980's.  Don't have it in front of me but it's quite complete.  I've built 
a condensed version of Denholm on my layout and in the process was able to 
borrow copies of b&w photos taken in the late 1950's by Joe Henry Kline, a 
long-time area resident.  If you plan to model Denhom, let me know - I 
can share my info.  I believe I have been told that Joe Henry has company 
drawings of Denholm.  The KEYSTONE article included very complete track 
plans and diagrams.

Keep in mind as well that the original steam coaling/watering/sanding 
facility at Thorndale was virtually identical to Denholm but only had track 
entering one end - the other was dead end, whereas Denholm had track 
entering/leaving at both ends.  Sometime c.1945(?) the Thorndale wharf was 
taken down and what steam came through there was serviced with smaller 
equipment.

Denholm itself lasted until the end of steam on the Middle Div and was torn 
down c.1960.  I've briefly explored the site and there is not much to see.  
One stone abutment next to the road is easy to spot but there must be 
more.  You can still see coal in the ground and in the ballast where the 
wharf used to cross twelve tracks.  And Joe Henry told me you can still 
crawl down into the tunnels for the ash conveyors -- if you like snakes! 
(his words, not mine).

PRR forever!

Sincerely,

George N. Pierson, Ph.D.   george.pierson@trnty.edu
Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College

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Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 12:04:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: robert netzlof <wb3iqe@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Flyers and Emperors
Content-Length: 2749

---Michael Bezilla <mxb13@psu.edu> wrote:
>
> The only Kipling rr story I know is called ".007"
so I went back and read
> it and sure enough, Bob is right, there is a Purple
Emperor in it.

<snippety snip>

> Anyway, the short story dates from the 1890s and it
is set mostly in a
> roundhouse, and the locomotives talk and take on
human qualities. The
> Purple Emperor is "Master of the Lodge" at the
roundhouse, where.007, a
> 4-4-0, is not accepted by some of the other engines
because he is new and
> untried.

Sort of "Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends" with
Masonic overtones. (Did Kipling write something which
doesn't have Masonic overtones?)

> There are a number of references to the PRR. I
believe the story
> was recently reprinted in an anthology of rr fiction.
>

Where? Not only did I not remember the name of the
story, I can't recall when nor where I read it, but
would like to read it again. (Regarding the name of
the story, I plead terminal confusion engendered by
Ian Fleming, Sean Connery, and Pierce Brosnan.)
 
> But why the PRR would name a freight train after
the Purple Emperor,
> whether it was a crack passenger train or a
passenger locomotive, remains a
> mystery.
> 
Well, I didn't claim they did, only that I hoped they
did.

I do recall that when I read the story, I surmised
that Kipling was going out into left field to pick a
name which would not infringe on anyone's trade name.
(I do note that there is a Purple Emperor butterfly.
Perhaps one of those flew by Kipling's study window
as he was trying to think of a non-infringing name
for a train/locomotive/lodge master.)

Perhaps someone in Philadelphia (or wherever the
Fourth Vice President for the Selection of the Names
for Named Trains had his office) found the name
amusing.

Perhaps someone thought "Ah, Mr. Kipling, you think
no-one would name a train 'The Purple Emperor'? Think
again, Mr. Kipling."

Perhaps the mythical 4th VP was a Kipling admirer and
chose this way to memorialize the only known Kipling
railroad story.

Of course I have no idea why Kipling chose that name,
nor why the PRR chose it. I do find it hard to
suppose that the two are not connected somehow. 

Bob Netzlof
 
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


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From: <Paintloco@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 20:24:40 EDT
Subject: [PRR] Z scale decals
Content-Length: 504

Greetings!

Does anyone know of a source for Z scale PRR 5 stripe F unit decals and PRR
cabin car decals?  

Don Murphy
The Renovo Dispatcher

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Subject: [PRR] Anyone know of this kind of junction?
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 98 20:33:48 -0400
From: Jerry <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1143

Anyone know of a PRR prototype junction -- probably at the end of a yard 
-- where two dual-track mains come together and one of the tracks from 
one line flies over one of the tracks of the other, then they diverge 
again -- perhaps into a yard -- so that both eastbound tracks and both 
westbound tracks are together?


WB____           ________WB       YARD??????
EB___ \         / _______WB
     \ \_______/ /
      \______   /  __
WB_____________/     \___EB       YARD???
EB_______________________EB


Anyone know of such a proto location on the PRR?

-----------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
-----------------------------------------------


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From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie)
Subject: Re: [PRR] Denholm Coaling Station
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 22:57:31 -0500
Content-Length: 1238

Harold--Try The Keystone Vol. XIII, No. 2, June 1980, for a good article
about Denholm.  Have fun!

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: Hal6963@aol.com <Hal6963@aol.com>
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com <PRR-Talk@dsop.com>
Date: Wednesday, June 10, 1998 6:30 AM
Subject: [PRR] Denholm Coaling Station


>Does anyone know of a source of information, pictures, etc. for the coaling
>station and ash pits at Denholm in the Middle Division?
>
>Thanks
>
>Harold
>Modeling the Middle Division
>
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From: <Prr1187@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 00:01:22 EDT
Subject: Re:  Re: [PRR] Denholm Coaling Station
Content-Length: 437

The Denholm Coal Wharf is in the "Keystone" June 1980 issue.

Enjoy.
Dennis S

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From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie)
Subject: [PRR] PRR in RAILMODEL JOURNAL
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 23:06:18 -0500
Content-Length: 1977

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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To the list--The July 1998 issue of RAILMODEL JOURNAL has an article of =
interest to SPF's by Nicholas Kalis about modeling Sunnyside yard.  =
There are good prototype and model photos.  This is the same author who =
wrote the article about Sunnyside in the Spring 1996 issue of The =
Keystone.  RMJ also gives the PRRT&HS a good plug.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>To the list--The July 1998 issue of =
RAILMODEL=20
JOURNAL has an article of interest to SPF's by Nicholas Kalis about =
modeling=20
Sunnyside yard.&nbsp; There are good prototype and model photos.&nbsp; =
This is=20
the same author who wrote the article about Sunnyside in the Spring 1996 =
issue=20
of The Keystone.&nbsp; RMJ also gives the PRRT&amp;HS a good =
plug.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Steve Hoxie</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Pensacola =
FL</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BD94C4.60518CE0--


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From: <TVPedro@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 00:26:31 EDT
Subject: [PRR] Re: Flyers and Emperors
Content-Length: 1226

Remember when Amtrak started the service from Philadelphia to Atlantic City a
few years ago, one of the papers or TV stations called it the GAMBLERS
EXPRESS.  This name was used before Amtrak even had the tracks in shape to run
the first train.  The train was called the Atlantic City Express by Amtrak,
yet all of the papers and electronic media always referred to the train as the
Gamblers Express in every
wreck, schedule change or publicity story.  They even called it the Gamblers
Express when Amtrak announced they would terminate the service.

No doubt the same happened to the Buffalo Flyer and Purple Emperor.  The Flyer
was probably named after the songs as a local custom and the same is probably
true for the Purple Emperor named after the Kipling Story.  Perhaps a literate
newsman used the term in a story regarding an incident with the train.

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Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 09:54:31 -0400
From: mxb13@psu.edu (Michael Bezilla)
Subject: Re: [PRR] Flyers and Emperors
Content-Length: 1040

>> There are a number of references to the PRR. I
>believe the story
>> was recently reprinted in an anthology of rr fiction.

>Where? Not only did I not remember the name of the
>story, I can't recall when nor where I read it, but
>would like to read it again.



Short Lines : A Collection of Classic American Railroad Stories,
St Martins Press, 1996. Rob Johnson, editor. I recall seeing this in quite
a few bookstores a year or so ago. Maybe a Kipling anthology would have
this story (".007") as well. I believe Kipling wrote this story during his
extended stay in the U.S. (Vermont)--he seems quite at home in his
references to the PRR and other U.S. roads.




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Subject: [PRR] Bachmann Consolidation & K4
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 98 14:29:36 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1055

What is the concensus of the accuracy of the new Bachmann Consolidation, 
painted for PRR.

By most accounts, this unit is revered as "very good", but they don't get 
into road specifics. Is it the right tender for the PRR? What about the 
firebox?

RELATED: The Bachmann K4 that's been out...I know the tender is thought 
of as accurate. What about the firebox and the rest of the loco?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html


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Subject: [PRR] New Product Announcements
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 98 15:20:25 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1556

A few new product announcements with ETAs, from Walthers:

Bachmann
 160-     84013 Steam K4 4-6-2 Pacific Powered -- PRR    H     TBA   
10/31/1998
                #3750 w/Tender Post War w/Modern Pilot  
 160-     84014 Steam K4 4-6-2 Pacific Powered -- PRR    H     TBA   
10/31/1998
                #1361 w/Tender Post War w/Modern Pilot  

932 - Walthers Kits
 932-      1372 Diesel Powered SW1 -- PRR (Brunswick     H  $  79.98 
10/09/1998
                Green w/red & white Keystone herald,    
                #9137)                                  

(All of the IHC passenger cars omitted, as mentioned recently.)

629 - Red Caboose
 629-      7026 X-29 Box Car -- PRR "Merchandise         H  $  14.95 
09/01/1998
                Service"  

Don't hold your breath for Red Caboose. They missed their 6/1 date for 
the "REA" X29s.                              


-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html


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Subject: [PRR] Decal stripe under cast-on ladder?
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 15:20:33 -0400
From: Dennis Rockwell <dennis@bbn.com>
Content-Length: 1672

I'm applying Microscale 60-972 (PRR Merchandise Service
livery) to a Fine N Scale X29 boxcar, and I have a decal
technique question.  The boxcar has molded-on ladders, but
the M/S stripe is supposed to go *under* the freight-car
colored ladder.  On models with separate ladders, this is
easy enough to do, but in this case I was wondering what the
wisdom at large says.

What I'm in the middle of doing is to apply the stripe over
the ladder, and after the Micro Set (blue bottle) dries and
before applying the Micro Sol (red bottle) I have slit the
decal along the "ridgeline" of the ladder uprights and
rungs.  So far, so good, and applications of Micro Sol have
allowed the decal to settle further down into the ladder and
exposed the ladder.  Since this is inexact, I will be
touching up the paint on the ladder with a fine brush once
the decal has fully set.

Does anybody have a better idea?  I must admit that I
haven't the patience for cutting and fitting tiny rectangles
of decal sheet to fit inside the rungs of an N Scale ladder.
I have chiselled off the ladders off a MicroTrains boxcar
and applied spare InterMountain ladders, but I wanted to
avoid that this time, since the measuring is quite finicky.

Thanks!

Dennis Rockwell     SPF(N)    dennis@bbn.com      Cambridge MA

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From: John Cooper <johncoop@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: [PRR] Anyone know of this kind of junction?
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 13:19:59 -0700
Content-Length: 2442

Maybe it's a stretch, but how about 52nd st yard in Philadelphia?  You've
got a flyover right over the center of the yard.  To the west you've got 3
main tracks to Overbrook.  Diverging westward from the center of the yard is
the two-track Schuylkill Branch.  To the east is the wye at Zoo, which at
one point had another yard in the middle of wye.

Another stretch of the imagination might be the west end of the rockville
bridge.  Put enola yard where marysville is really.  I think you come out of
Enola W/W/E/E, right?  Then as you head east from
real-marysville/imaginary-enola, two tracks would turn left and head east
over rockville bridge, two tracks go straight and follow river.

John

> ----------
> From: 	Jerry[SMTP:jerry@dsop.com]
> Sent: 	Wednesday, June 10, 1998 5:33 PM
> To: 	PRR-Talk
> Subject: 	[PRR] Anyone know of this kind of junction?
> 
> Anyone know of a PRR prototype junction -- probably at the end of a yard 
> -- where two dual-track mains come together and one of the tracks from 
> one line flies over one of the tracks of the other, then they diverge 
> again -- perhaps into a yard -- so that both eastbound tracks and both 
> westbound tracks are together?
> 
> 
> WB____           ________WB       YARD??????
> EB___ \         / _______WB
>      \ \_______/ /
>       \______   /  __
> WB_____________/     \___EB       YARD???
> EB_______________________EB
> 
> 
> Anyone know of such a proto location on the PRR?
> 
> -----------------------------------------------
> Jerry Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
> "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/
> Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
> -----------------------------------------------
> 
> 
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From: <Bobspf@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:31:05 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] New Product Announcements
Content-Length: 1315

In a message dated 98-06-11 15:33:20 EDT, Jerry  writes:

<< A few new product announcements with ETAs, from Walthers:
 
 Bachmann
  160-     84013 Steam K4 4-6-2 Pacific Powered -- PRR    H     TBA   
 10/31/1998
                 #3750 w/Tender Post War w/Modern Pilot  
  160-     84014 Steam K4 4-6-2 Pacific Powered -- PRR    H     TBA   
 10/31/1998
                 #1361 w/Tender Post War w/Modern Pilot   >>

Is this a rerun of the previous design or a complete upgrade?  I have three of
the old ones and can't get one to run without a lope, although admittedly I
don't have a driver quarterer.
And of course, it can barely pull its own tender. If I could get two of them
to run OK, I could doublehead them like most of them were on the limiteds
anyway.
Twould be nice if they brought it up to the standards of the 2-8-0 for
performance. 
BTW, the 2-8-0  does not of course remotely resemble anything the Pennsy had.

BobZoeller

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From: <Paintloco@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 20:41:58 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann Consolidation & K4
Content-Length: 969

Jerry,

Regarding your question about the accuracy of the Bacho K4, I think its
academic. If you want a K4 to actually pull cars up a grade and without a
lope, don't buy a Bacho K4. The reworked Bowser K4 when built with the super
detail kit looks as better and it runs and pulls rings around the Bacho. Thus
Bacho's accuracy is moot.
If price counts, used Penn Line and Bowser K4s are plentiful at most fleas and
for less than the Bacho. Usually the need paint and detail though. 
The only good point of the Bach is the tender. If only they would sell them
alone.

Don Murphy
The Renovo Dispatcher 

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Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 19:58:58 -0400
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Engines -Reply
From: padraice@juno.com (Patrick M Egan)
Content-Length: 1656

I have seen the Erie-Built shells at the Wheaton, Illinois shows. The
flaws in the castings persuaded me to hang on to my 25 year old Red Ball
units as far superior.  
Pat Egan


On Wed, 10 Jun 1998 09:23:45 EDT <Bobspf@aol.com> writes:
>In a message dated 98-06-10 07:03:29 EDT, Bill Laird writes:
>
><< DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH NOVATECH!  Their business practices are
> awful.  >>
>
>For what its worth, there is a vendor who occcasionally appears at the 
>monthly
>GMTS in Wheaton, Ill who has some shells for sale.  Maybe he makes it 
>to other
>GATS shows. You could avoid the troubles Bill writes about and maybe 
>pick a
>shell with best casting.
>
>Bob Zoeller
>
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From: <Hal6963@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 21:09:57 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] New Product Announcements
Content-Length: 1142

<< A few new product announcements with ETAs, from Walthers:
 >
> Bachmann 160-84013 Steam K4 4-6-2 Pacific Powered -- PRR    H     TBA   
 10/31/1998 #3750 w/Tender Post War w/Modern Pilot  
 >160-     84014 Steam K4 4-6-2 Pacific Powered -- PRR    H     TBA   
 >10/31/1998
                 #1361 w/Tender Post War w/Modern Pilot   >>
> Is this a rerun of the previous design or a complete upgrade?  I have three 
> of
>  the old ones and can't get one to run without a lope, although admittedly I
>  don't have a driver quarterer.
>  
I have one of the new 2-8-0s and if they rework the K4 to be of the same
quality as their new 2-8-0 Consolidated I will buy at least 6. The 2-8-0 is
just great, unfortunately no Pennsy version.

Harold
Modeling the Middle Division

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Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 20:16:19 -0400
Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann Consolidation & K4
From: padraice@juno.com (Patrick M Egan)
Content-Length: 2404

The consol is a very accurate model - of an Illinois Central 2-8-0.

The Bachmann K4 has some odd shapes to the sides of the Belpaire firebox,
and the under the running board detail is cast in place, and looks like
it.

The K4 tender appears to be a pre-war version of a 110pwhatever with the
original slope sheet, and slope sheet rivets on the sides.  It might be
accurate for a modernized post-war K4 with no stoker.  Were there any? 

Bowser sold a repowering kit.  For the price of the Backmann K4 and the
Bowser repowering kit, are you any better off than buying a Bowser K4, or
a couple of used ones?
Pat Egan


On Thu, 11 Jun 98 14:29:36 -0400 Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com> writes:
>What is the concensus of the accuracy of the new Bachmann 
>Consolidation, 
>painted for PRR.
>
>By most accounts, this unit is revered as "very good", but they don't 
>get 
>into road specifics. Is it the right tender for the PRR? What about 
>the 
>firebox?
>
>RELATED: The Bachmann K4 that's been out...I know the tender is 
>thought 
>of as accurate. What about the firebox and the rest of the loco?
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
>Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
>Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
>
>Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
>http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html
>
>
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From: <KEMACPRR@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 22:58:32 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] New Product Announcements
Content-Length: 733

A thought has any one out there with a new Bachman 2-8-0 tried a Bowser H-9
boiler to see if it will fit over the Bachman mech.  Or how about a Bowser L-1
boiler on the Bachman frame with an added trailing truck. I see some
interesting possibilities here. All we need now is a tender shell and we in HO
can do what the N-scale crowd can do with the Kato Mike.
Ken McCorry

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From: <TGREGMRTN@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 00:35:43 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann Consolidation & K4
Content-Length: 1448

Don and all,
   I have a Bowser.  I bought it when they first introduced the brass frame.
I don't know if your happy with something that looks like a toy, but I wasn't.
It took many many hours of research to rework it to what I would consider an
acceptable level of detail at the time.  It is no where close to acceptable to
my standards today.  Yes, it would pull the paper off the wall, but I still
remember those totally out of scale rivets on the cab.  Yea it did not need to
be requarterd to run well but I remember how much I loved cutting the windows
in the front of the cab, and oh yea the need to create a back for the cab was
loads of fun.  And the best part is that tender, to bad it was not lead I
could have had a mess of sinkers.  If a guy could live in a perfect world we
would all own brass, but I realize that is not possible, so we make choices,
mine is to improve the Bachmann drive, add some weight and let her pull my
fast mail down the Ohio from Conway to Mingo Jct or perhaps over the Bayard
Branch.
    Watching from LINE way out WEST
    Greg Martin 

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From: Mark D Bej <bejm@eeg.ccf.org>
Subject: RE: [PRR] Anyone know of this kind of junction? (fwd)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 1:16:55 EDT
Content-Length: 2973

Jerry asks,
> > Anyone know of a PRR prototype junction -- probably at the end of a yard 
> > -- where two dual-track mains come together and one of the tracks from 
> > one line flies over one of the tracks of the other, then they diverge 
> > again -- perhaps into a yard -- so that both eastbound tracks and both 
> > westbound tracks are together?
> > 
> > 
> > WB____           ________WB       YARD??????
> > EB___ \         / _______WB
> >      \ \_______/ /
> >       \______   /  __
> > WB_____________/     \___EB       YARD???
> > EB_______________________EB


John Cooper responds.
> Maybe it's a stretch, but how about 52nd st yard in Philadelphia?  You've
> got a flyover right over the center of the yard.  To the west you've got 3

52nd St. is a good bit different than Jerry's suggestion above, methinks.

> main tracks to Overbrook.  Diverging westward from the center of the yard is
> the two-track Schuylkill Branch.  To the east is the wye at Zoo, which at
> one point had another yard in the middle of wye.
> 
> Another stretch of the imagination might be the west end of the rockville
> bridge.  Put enola yard where marysville is really.  I think you come out of
> Enola W/W/E/E, right?  Then as you head east from
> real-marysville/imaginary-enola, two tracks would turn left and head east
> over rockville bridge, two tracks go straight and follow river.

A bit of a stretch, as you say.  ROCKVILLE is actually a good bit more
difficult, with _several_ flyovers, now mostly abandoned.

The only place on PRR where the middle 2 tracks swapped places via a
flyover, that I can think of, is the middle 2 tracks of the East River
tunnels.  And that swap was underground?

Jerry, is this for the east end loop? In our early discussion of flyovers,
I mentioned the hens'-teeth-rare number of prototype location to do what
you're drawing above, particularly with the combinations of traffic being
what you specify.

The only place I can think of that _sort of_ fits the scheme above is
the area from THORN east.  Jerry, perhaps if you could give some more
detail as to what you're trying to do ...


--
Mark D. Bej, M.D.
bejm@eeg.ccf.org 

Clinical Associate, Section of Epilepsy & Sleep Disorders
Epilepsy Research Fellow, Section of Neurological Computing
Department of Neurology            Phone      (216) 445-2565
Cleveland Clinic Foundation S-51   Operator   (216) 444-2200 bpr 24095
9500 Euclid Ave.                   Fax        (216) 445-6617 (public)
Cleveland, Ohio 44195 U.S.A.       Voice mail (216) 444-0119 (nonclinical only)

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From: "Liberty" <liberty@infonline.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann Consolidation & K4
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 05:25:59 -0400
Content-Length: 2341

In regards to the Bach K4, ......I see that many prefer the Bowser drive,
but like the detail and Tender of the Bach.

Did you guys know that Bowser sells a drive kit for the Bach. unit ?? 
Don't have the price handy, but it is in the $ 65.00 range I believe.


J. Zappa
----------
> From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com
> To: Paintloco@aol.com; jerry@dsop.com
> Cc: PRR-talk@dsop.com
> Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann Consolidation & K4
> Date: Friday, June 12, 1998 12:35 AM
> 
> Don and all,
>    I have a Bowser.  I bought it when they first introduced the brass
frame.
> I don't know if your happy with something that looks like a toy, but I
wasn't.
> It took many many hours of research to rework it to what I would consider
an
> acceptable level of detail at the time.  It is no where close to
acceptable to
> my standards today.  Yes, it would pull the paper off the wall, but I
still
> remember those totally out of scale rivets on the cab.  Yea it did not
need to
> be requarterd to run well but I remember how much I loved cutting the
windows
> in the front of the cab, and oh yea the need to create a back for the cab
was
> loads of fun.  And the best part is that tender, to bad it was not lead I
> could have had a mess of sinkers.  If a guy could live in a perfect world
we
> would all own brass, but I realize that is not possible, so we make
choices,
> mine is to improve the Bachmann drive, add some weight and let her pull
my
> fast mail down the Ohio from Conway to Mingo Jct or perhaps over the
Bayard
> Branch.
>     Watching from LINE way out WEST
>     Greg Martin 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
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> -------------------------------------------------------------------
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> "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com".


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Subject: RE: [PRR] Anyone know of this kind of junction? (fwd)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 98 06:33:28 -0400
From: Jerry <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 4162

On 6/12/98 1:16 AM, Mark D Bej (bejm@eeg.ccf.org) wrote:

>> > Anyone know of a PRR prototype junction -- probably at the end of a yard 
>> > -- where two dual-track mains come together and one of the tracks from 
>> > one line flies over one of the tracks of the other, then they diverge 
>> > again -- perhaps into a yard -- so that both eastbound tracks and both 
>> > westbound tracks are together?
>> > 
>> > 
>> > WB____           ________WB       YARD??????
>> > EB___ \         / _______WB
>> >      \ \_______/ /
>> >       \______   /  __
>> > WB_____________/     \___EB       YARD???
>> > EB_______________________EB
>
>John Cooper responds.
>> Maybe it's a stretch, but how about 52nd st yard in Philadelphia?  You've
>> got a flyover right over the center of the yard.  To the west you've got 3
>
>52nd St. is a good bit different than Jerry's suggestion above, methinks.

Actually, it's closer than you think. Disregard the "spreads" between the 
incoming and outbound lines. 
>
>> main tracks to Overbrook.  Diverging westward from the center of the yard is
>> the two-track Schuylkill Branch.  To the east is the wye at Zoo, which at
>> one point had another yard in the middle of wye.
>> 
>> Another stretch of the imagination might be the west end of the rockville
>> bridge.  Put enola yard where marysville is really.  I think you come out of
>> Enola W/W/E/E, right?  Then as you head east from
>> real-marysville/imaginary-enola, two tracks would turn left and head east
>> over rockville bridge, two tracks go straight and follow river.
>
>A bit of a stretch, as you say.  ROCKVILLE is actually a good bit more
>difficult, with _several_ flyovers, now mostly abandoned.

Agreed.
>
>Jerry, is this for the east end loop? In our early discussion of flyovers,
>I mentioned the hens'-teeth-rare number of prototype location to do what
>you're drawing above, particularly with the combinations of traffic being
>what you specify.
>
>The only place I can think of that _sort of_ fits the scheme above is
>the area from THORN east.  Jerry, perhaps if you could give some more
>detail as to what you're trying to do ...

This is for a loop on my model railroad (potential new design). It is a 
two track main. Both ends of the layout spill into a staging area at the 
same elevation. That's what's shown at the left edge of my diagram: two 
pairs of tracks, with one in each direction in each pair.

Need a mechanism to turn complete passenger trains. Plus I won't have the 
length for a run-through yard. Have 23' of length. Subtract 3' for turns 
at each end leaves 17'. Subtract throats and I'm too short. 

Thought is to create a flyover so that both EB tracks would become a 
pair, as would both WB tracks. They would then split apart, run the 24' 
wall -- 6' apart -- and loop to meet each other. This would allow two 
things:

First: Continuous run operation in the same direction. An EB could run 
forever EB without interaction. So could a WB.

Second: In the loop end, a turnout to the inside would feed a track that 
trains could then back out of but feed into a stub staging yard inside 
the loop. (Reverted Loop concept). In this manner, trains would always be 
stored with the head-end at the throat of the yard. When they depart, 
they could take either outbound track, aligning them as WB or EB as they 
enter the modeled area. 

This design allows a central staging yard, acts as reversing loops for 
both ends of the line, and also allows continuous run operation on both 
mains.


-----------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
-----------------------------------------------


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Date: Fri, 12 Jun 98 7:20:44 EDT
From: <kkollar@PAMDT.ANG.AF.MIL>
Subject: [PRR] GG1
Content-Length: 1383

Taking the advice of several prr-talkers I went down to the Harrisburg 
train station and asked a friendly Amtrak security officer if I could see 
the GG1 up close.  He gladly opened the locked doors and allowed me to go 
down to the platform.   With no one else on the platform I was really able 
to 'study' the locomotive and noticed the wealth of details.  I began 
thinking about super detailing an IHC GG1.  I have no experience with IHC's 
model and was wondering if anyone could provide some insight.

Are the general shape and body coutours accurate?
Are the pantographs accurate? If not what needs to be done to them.
How's the overall level of detail on the model?
What about the trucks?
How about the pilot? 
Any info on the air intakes/filter openings on the nose?  I do know there 
were several  variations.

Has anyone attempted to do this and if so how successful do you think your 
efforts were?

Any help or advice would be much appreciated.

Have a great weekend.

Kris Kollar sends.


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From: <Bobspf@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 09:13:54 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1
Content-Length: 777

In a message dated 98-06-12 08:26:49 EDT, Kris Kollar writes:

<< Are the general shape and body coutours accurate?
 Are the pantographs accurate? If not what needs to be done to them.
 How's the overall level of detail on the model? >>

I asked this question before, although it is academic to me because I model
Lines West, but isn't the IHC GG1 about 8 scale feet (more than an inch) too
short?

Bob Zoeller

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From: <LINESWEST@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 09:56:37 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann Consolidation & K4
Content-Length: 990

In a message dated 6/12/98 5:31:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
liberty@infonline.net writes:

<< Did you guys know that Bowser sells a drive kit for the Bach. unit ?? 
 Don't have the price handy, but it is in the $65.00 range I believe.
  >>
Yeah.  That's what the guys in Xenia bought.  They can't run it because it
derails on curves, any and all no just the 18"-inch minimums Bowser says this
mechanism is designed to negotiate.They've been too bust building the layout
to trouble shoot.  I've suggested Bachman's plastic body makes the units too
light in front for the pilot to track properly. 

Any thoughts?

Tom V.

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From: <RickTipton@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 10:22:46 EDT
Subject: [PRR] One More Logansport Map
Content-Length: 3989

Steve,
You'll recall my joke about ONE MORE MAP.  Yes - I found another...

The GLE (Great Lakes East) volume of Steam Powered Video's Comprehensive
Railroad Atlas of North America  contains a detail map of the Logansport area,
numbered IN-8c (on page 13).  Interestingly, this map shows:
1) the abandoned diamond and other trackage at VAN, but it's lettered PEORIA
JCT.  Maybe VAN has been renamed?  The Toledo Peoria and Western (second
company of that name if I remember correctly) is shown as coming in from the
west (and ending here?).  
2) an abandoned track is shown coming from the northwest and connecting to the
main immediately west of the switches to the west legs of the twin wyes at
VAN.  Remember the mystery of where the original Chicago line came into town?
Bingo!
3) a little east of VAN the main crosses the Wabash River and then S-curves to
the north (to PRR Logansport station site).  However, this map also shows
abandoned track running straight from the bridge to RACE tower, which may
validate Race siding as the original main line here.  <G>
4) instead of being abandoned, X yard, north of VAN and on the way to FERN is
shown as LERR Yard.  An Appendix to the atlas identifies LERR as the
Logansport & Eel River Short Line.  However, both the Eel River line east and
the South Bend Branch are shown as abandoned beyond FERN :^(
5)  At the east end of the WABASH's yard, on the south side, is a facility
lettered "Transco shops".  I'm guessing they're a little far east to have
anything to do with the old PRR/Panhandle Logansport shops at 18th Street, but
this bears checking out.
6) the part of Yard A south of the main is shown in, and operated by the WSRY
(Winimac Southern?), which goes east and south via Anoka.
7) nothing shown of Yard B (we know it's gone, right?)
8) west of VAN/Peoria Jct., nothing is shown of Yard C.  Kenneth is shown at
the edge of the map, but with no present or past connecting track north.
9) moving off the detail map to IN-6 (northwestern Indiana), just west of
Kenneth an in-service track diverges from the Effner/TP&W line at what is
labeled Trimmer Jct. and heads straight north to Boone.  From Trimmer Jct to
Boone and then from Boone northwest to Winamac (a segment of the original
Chicago line alignment) is shown in service as the ARE (A&R Railway).  Of
course, the abandoned segment of the Chicago line from Boone to Logansport
(VAN?) is also shown. 

Hope that grabs you and other Lines Westerners-- it ties a lot of hints
together, and throws us a couple of new mysteries to work on.

BTW, I can't compliment this atlas series enough.  I understand the
cartographer Mike Walker is British, and when fanning here was disappointed in
the quality of US railroad maps.  Apparently, in Britain, there is a choice of
several competitive series of atlases published just for the railfan (I
brought two different publishers' sets home from a British steam tour). Done
in the style of those British railfan atlases, these Steam Powered Video
atlases have much more detail to offer than the US-printed atlases I own.
Granted, they don't show roads or numbers of tracks, but to misquote Ferris
Bueller's Day Off, "I do recommend you get your hands on one".

Oh yea -- I get mine from Dave Hickox (Dave's Books and Slides) in Delaware
OH.

Til the next train out,
                             Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
                             Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO)
                             Operating the Panhandle Route
                                    And Remembering PRR Lines West 

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From: <LINESWEST@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 10:25:33 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Engines
Content-Length: 1242

In a message dated 6/9/98 9:08:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, no-
soup-4-you@worldnet.att.net writes:

<< 1)Bachman's baby Train master PRR Prototype? If so where found?
  >>

Haven't seen an answer to this so  I'll chime in.

All Fairbanks Morse 1,600 hp road switchers on six-wheeled trucks with all 
wheels powered were H-16-66s but not all H-16-66s were  Baby trainmasters.

Pennsy H-16-66s were early run models I call Phase 1 in that they had
Frederick Lowery's detailing to the car body, best described as a H-20-44 with
a short hood..
Phase 1-A H-16-66s dropped Lowery's details.
Baby Trainmasters are Phase 2 H-16-66s. These had the H-20-44-style radiator
replaced with the distinctive Trainmaster-style  radiators with four caged,
slanted fans.

An accurate PRR model is avaiable only in brass. Converting the Bachman kit
would take a lot of work.

Tom V.

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Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 10:02:32 -0600
From: Dick Taylor <dzt10@amail.amdahl.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1
Content-Length: 1212

Bobspf@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 98-06-12 08:26:49 EDT, Kris Kollar writes:
> 
> << Are the general shape and body coutours accurate?
>  Are the pantographs accurate? If not what needs to be done to them.
>  How's the overall level of detail on the model? >>
> 
> I asked this question before, although it is academic to me because I model
> Lines West, but isn't the IHC GG1 about 8 scale feet (more than an inch) too
> short?
> 
> Bob Zoeller
> 


Bob,
Don't have one handy right now but I believe the IHC/ Ravs were fairly
close to the correct length.(79 feet seems to stick in my rusty, dusty
mind.) I do remember that the old Penn Line metal GG1's were about 10
feet to short.  I thought that the Penn Lines might make a good basis
for an R-1 kitbash, but haven't looked any further at that.

Regards,
Dick Taylor

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From: <KEMACPRR@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 12:11:37 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1
Content-Length: 1855

Measured an old AHM GG-1 and it comes in close to 80' at the pulling face of
couplers. The real ones measure out at 79'6'' so it's damn close. There are 4
plastic versions of GG-1's . the original AHM with the vertical motor which
has a top speed that would make a Metroliner cringe. They will run smooth  but
also have large flanges (code 100 only ) . Pemco did one in the 1980's with a
pancake type motor again not too good a runner. IHC has two versions a single
motor with 8 wheel drive and a double motor with 12 wheel drive. They call the
12 wheel version a Premier. One nice thing about all these G's is the bodies
are all the same and will interchange all have the same level of detail body
wise . I have some of all types the new IHC is the best runner but it has a
height problem. When they put the motors in the noses the body won't fit down
as far as it should and it looks a bit strange. There is no easy way to lower
the motors to get the right height.   The pilots on all models are good for
the 4858-4938 only, these later built motors had drop couplers. the first 58
built had a flat pilot with no drop coupler this is easily fixed with some
sheet styrene if you desire.   Speaking of couplers the new IHC is the easist
to put KD's on the other take a bit of filing and cutting.  The pans on all
G's are fine as is in fact I use them as a replacement on my P-5's. . Sorry to
run on so long but I've been fooling with these motors for years.          Ken
McCorry 

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From: <Paintloco@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 16:38:26 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann Consolidation & K4
Content-Length: 1366

Greetings, again!

Re: Bowser K4 mechanisms derailing on all curves in Xenia- if that happens
then they were not assembled properly. In the last 18 mos I have built 8
Bowser K4s of the new tooling for customers. They run well, look great when
super detailed and beat the Bacho in all departments except the tender. years
ago a tried to make use of the Bacho K4 but I found it is not designed for the
serious modeler. It's best suited on display at the Curve. I was forced to
accept the Bowser K4 and was happy with it.
If you want an under $200.00 K4, Bowser is your only choice.
At flea markets you can often find early PFM United K4's of reasonable prices.
I have upgraded to these. If you look for one with a horrible paint job you
may get a good deal. I found one 3 years ago at a flea for $180.00 covered by
a quarter inch of house paint. I stripped and refinished it. It looks as good
as a $500 PSC unit and runs great. There is no future in Bacho K4's

Don Murphy
The Renovo Dispatcher

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Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 16:01:10 -0400
From: "Wayne S. Betty" <wsbcos@cris.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Track Fires
Content-Length: 2064

Hi Michael:
In ten years of living on the Amtrak main (Phila - HBG) I haven't seen a tie
fire. However, We have had several wire fires - its usually a tree that has
been blown down and shorts out on one of the wires.  Some of the trees hit
the 132k lines, most just hit the trolley wire.  Makes a lot of sparks and
noise too.
cos

Michael E. Allen wrote:

> After a long discussion w/ the local fire chief  [who was rightfully
> paranoid about the wire]  I have a couple of questions to throw out to
> the list[s] [especially Eric Sondeen & Rich Dean]:
>
> 1. Has anyone out there ever seen a tie fire which they can confirm was
> started by a cigarette?
>
> 2. What is the consensus [ok, is there a consensus?] on how to handle
> them?
>
> [For my purposes a tie fire is a defined as a limit number of ties
> contained in the track bed with no critical or hazardous exposures.]
>
> MEA
> ______________________________
> PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY        PTRMgtSvc@Juno.com
> Management Services                                   Telephone
> 609-683-0356
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
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From: David Carey <dccareyd@ac1.co.ada.id.us>
Subject: [PRR] Thank You
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 14:39:55 -0600
Content-Length: 548

	Since I joined this talk group a few months ago, I've asked a
number of basic questions and always have received prompt and
well-informed answers. Thank you all for sharing your expertise.

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Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 13:49:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Derrick J Brashear <shadow@DEMENTIA.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Engines
Content-Length: 1005


>  All Fairbanks Morse 1,600 hp road switchers on six-wheeled trucks with all 
>  wheels powered were H-16-66s but not all H-16-66s were  Baby trainmasters.
>  
>  Pennsy H-16-66s were early run models I call Phase 1 in that they had
>  Frederick Lowery's detailing to the car body, best described as a H-20-44
with
>  a short hood..

Uh, the Pennsy had H-16-44s but not H-16-66's. The Bachmanns are H-16-44s. So
is the Cary/Bowser "Baby Trainmaster", even though more strictly Baby
Trainmasters are only H-16-66s people seem to call both of these H-16-44's baby
trainmasters as well, because they have the right body style....

-D


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Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 13:47:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Derrick J Brashear <shadow@DEMENTIA.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1
Content-Length: 1421

>  Measured an old AHM GG-1 and it comes in close to 80' at the pulling face of
>  couplers. The real ones measure out at 79'6'' so it's damn close. There are
4
>  plastic versions of GG-1's . the original AHM with the vertical motor which
>  has a top speed that would make a Metroliner cringe.

Presumably this is the Rivarossi one.

>  They will run smooth  but
>  also have large flanges (code 100 only ) . Pemco did one in the 1980's with
a
>  pancake type motor again not too good a runner. IHC has two versions a
single
>  motor with 8 wheel drive and a double motor with 12 wheel drive. They call
the
>  12 wheel version a Premier. 

The former is a Mehano, and the latter is apparently the PEMCO shell if not
their mechanism as well.

The PEMCO shell is apparently a clone of the Rivarossi, and I don't know the
lineage of the 4M (Mehano) but while they may be close they're not all the same
mold....

I can tell you more when I dig up my Premier and Mehano units, my PEMCO and
Rivarossi units are next to my desk at home.

-D


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Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 16:22:47 -0500
From: bobp@tsc.com (Bob Poortinga)
Subject: Re: [PRR] One More Logansport Map
Content-Length: 1835

<RickTipton@aol.com> wries:

> You'll recall my joke about ONE MORE MAP.  Yes - I found another...

I just found another one at lunch.  It is actually an atlas  titled
"Maps of Indiana Counties in 1876" published by the Indiana Historical
Society in 1968.  It is a reprint of "Illustrated Historical Atlas of the 
State of Indiana" published by Baskin, Forster & Company, Chicago, 1876.
The ISBN is 0-87195-059-6.  It is softbound, size 17.5 x 14, and costs
less than $20.

> The GLE (Great Lakes East) volume of Steam Powered Video's Comprehensive
> Railroad Atlas of North America  contains a detail map of the Logansport area,
> numbered IN-8c (on page 13).  Interestingly, this map shows:

> 2) an abandoned track is shown coming from the northwest and connecting to the
> main immediately west of the switches to the west legs of the twin wyes at
> VAN.  Remember the mystery of where the original Chicago line came into town?
> Bingo!

According to the 1876 atlas of Cass County, the P.C.&St.L. (Panhandle) main
came into Logansport from the northwest, turned due east for a bit (maybe 
1/2 mile) and then turned almost due south, crossing the Eel River line
about 1/2 mile NORTH of VAN, then joining the Effner branch about 1/3 mile
EAST of VAN.

I will be traveling through the area tomorrow (Saturday) and will try to
research this and the other points that were raised.

-- 
Bob Poortinga  (mailto:bobp@tsc.com)
Bloomington, Indiana  USA

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Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 19:23:58 +0100
From: "John H. Wright" <jhwright@jhwright.demon.co.uk>
Subject: [PRR] Bachmann K4
Content-Length: 2705

I acquired four Bachmann K4s when I first started modelling the Pennsy
some 5 years ago.  As mentioned in Bob Zoeller's posting all of them
exhibited the same annoying side to side oscillation when running and as
I gradually increased my loco stud these K4s were placed in store.  Last
year I decided to see if I could trace the problem and try and make
decent runners out of them.  I had already eliminated quartering faults
and binding rods so as almost a last resort I clamped a chassis on the
workbench, wired it up and sat and watched the wheels turning.
Eventually it dawned on me what was wrong.

For some reason, the Bachmann driving wheel has a very prominent boss
and the rods can't clear it properly as the wheel revolves.  This
results in excessive friction as the rods strive to ride up over the
boss and the dragging motion causes the problems when running.

The solution was to extend the effective length of each crankpin and
keep them proud of the wheel boss by placing  small brass tubes between
the wheels and the coupling rods.  Fortunately the crankpins are long
enough to allow you to do this and still have enough thread left to
screw into each wheel.  The length of tube required is about 1 to 1.5mm.
I used  small brass tube from the K & L range.....and I think this is
also available in the USA.
Running quality is now much better, the wobble has as near as damn it
disappeared and the locos play a full part in my layout schedule.

As far as pulling powers are concerned...each can manage about six
heavyweights on my layout.  The Bachmann K4's pulling power seems to be
severely tested by curves, more so than my other locos.  Fortunately the
minimum radius on the mainline is about 4ft so maybe less of a problem
than for other folks.  As the limiteds on my layout run to 10 or more
heavyweights, when K4s are used they have to be double-headed but that
is getting towards prototype practice in any case.

Regards,
-- 
John H. Wright
Washington
Tyne & Wear
England
Visit the Newcastle & District Model Railway Society's web site at:

            http://www.jhwright.demon.co.uk/index.htm

Descriptions and Views of our Layouts in:
        Z, N, HO (USA), HO (Continental), OO, P4, Ogauge & On16.5
Plus members' layouts and details of our exhibitions, news and events.
     

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Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 19:27:49 +0100
From: "John H. Wright" <jhwright@jhwright.demon.co.uk>
Subject: [PRR] New PRR model pics on the web
Content-Length: 1382

A new page of PRR model pictures has been added to the N & D MRS web
site.
The page's address is: http://www.jhwright.demon.co.uk/fbgalbum.htm

Locos shown include N1, J1, K4 #3876 with smoke deflectors, L1, E6, G5,
an L2 B & O 0-8-0 and a PRR Fairbanks-Morse switcher.



Being resident in these islands I suppose I ought to have something to
add to the Kipling thread, but the only story I know is the one where a
college professor was giving his lecture on the famous writer.  He
turned to a sweet but inattentive young thing in his class and asked her
if she liked Kipling.
"I don't know," she replied, "I've never kipled!"

Regards,
-- 
John H. Wright
Washington
Tyne & Wear
England
Visit the Newcastle & District Model Railway Society's web site at:

            http://www.jhwright.demon.co.uk/index.htm

Descriptions and Views of our Layouts in:
        Z, N, HO (USA), HO (Continental), OO, P4, Ogauge & On16.5
Plus members' layouts and details of our exhibitions, news and events.
     

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Subject: [PRR] fwd: PRR history from NS
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 21:39:53 -0400
From: Dennis Rockwell <dennis@bbn.com>
Content-Length: 1521

NS's press releases usually have a bit of history attached;
this one concerns the Pennsy.
------- Forwarded Message

Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 16:14:57 -0400
from: nsinfo@nscorp.com
subject: Implementation Update, 6/12/1998

Implementation Update
(Available on the World Wide Web at 
http://www.nscorp.com/nscorp/html/update/)

June 12, 1998
Norfolk Southern Public Relations

[ ... ]

Conrail Heritage 
	In March of 1937, the nation was planning President Franklin D. 
Roosevelt's second-term inauguration. For weeks prior, the Pennsylvania 
Railroad, a Conrail predecessor line, planned how to best handle the 
surge of passengers traveling to Washington, D.C., for the event. 
Anticipating more than 50,000 passengers, the railroad decided to halt 
all freight traffic between New York and Washington for 12 hours and 
concentrate on the operation of passenger trains. When the rush was 
over, tabulations showed the Pennsylvania Railroad had provided service 
to more than 68,000 persons in a 24-hour period. 

[ ... ]

- ------------------
Norfolk Southern Corporation
http://www.nscorp.com


------- End of Forwarded Message


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From: <JDPanza@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 22:36:04 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] One More Logansport Map
Content-Length: 1681

In a message dated 98-06-12 10:27:18 EDT, RickTipton@aol.com writes:

<< Subj:	 [PRR] One More Logansport Map
 
 <snip>
 5)  At the east end of the WABASH's yard, on the south side, is a facility
 lettered "Transco shops".  I'm guessing they're a little far east to have
 anything to do with the old PRR/Panhandle Logansport shops at 18th Street,
but
 this bears checking out.
  >>

Ironically, I was at the Transco Railway Products facility yesterday.  They
perform auto rack certifications (repair and complete repaint) on TTX Company
equipment and railroad owned railroad racks.  The facility is the former PRR
shops.  The roundhouse was torn down last year (it was too badly deteriorated
to save).   Some of the rail near the old turntable pit is dated 1901.  The
old main shop building still uses a transfer table that is visible from 18th
St. just south of the NS (Wabash) main line. 

Have you stopped at the museum in the old station?  There are some artifacts
but I'm not sure have much research information is there.  The day I stopped
there last year it was open for selling tickets to their railroad days
festival.  

The shortline you described was in financial difficulty and may have been
taken over by the TP&W.  I can check with my contacts at Transco to verify if
you would like.

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From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie)
Subject: [PRR] More Tenders [was Bachmann Consolidation & K4}
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 22:46:03 -0500
Content-Length: 2820

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0096_01BD9653.E1239760
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Greetings, SPF's--We have all seen recent discussions wrt relative =
performance and appearance of Bachmann and Bowser K4's.  Some seem to =
like the appearance of the Bachmann tender.  I do not;  compared to =
photos of the real thing, the top of the tender side where it =
transitions down from the coal "boards" to the tank top does something =
odd.  The die makers missed it on this one.  However, IMHO it looks =
better than Bowser's.  All this about the sorry state of affairs trying =
to model the tender of our favorite steamer!  Seems like there is a =
market out here.  Liberty, how about it?  Where is that 110P75?  Might =
want to consider the 130P75, too!  Either would also work behind I1's =
and M1's, too.  Just my 2 cents worth.

Steve Hoxie=20
Pensacola, FL

------=_NextPart_000_0096_01BD9653.E1239760
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Greetings, SPF's--We have all seen recent =
discussions wrt=20
relative performance and appearance of Bachmann and Bowser K4's.&nbsp; =
Some seem=20
to like the appearance of the Bachmann tender.&nbsp; I do not;&nbsp; =
compared to=20
photos of the real thing, the top of the tender side where it =
transitions down=20
from the coal &quot;boards&quot; to the tank top does something =
odd.&nbsp; The=20
die makers missed it on this one.&nbsp; However, IMHO it looks better =
than=20
Bowser's.&nbsp; All this about the sorry state of affairs trying to =
model the=20
tender of our favorite steamer!&nbsp; Seems like there is a market out=20
here.&nbsp; Liberty, how about it?&nbsp; Where is that 110P75?&nbsp; =
Might want=20
to consider the 130P75, too!&nbsp; Either would also work behind I1's =
and M1's,=20
too.&nbsp; Just my 2 cents worth.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Steve Hoxie&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Pensacola, FL</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0096_01BD9653.E1239760--


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From: ironhorse@sprintmail.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 21:15:30 -0700
Subject: [PRR] GG-1 models
Content-Length: 3207

Greetings,

Looking at the recent posts regarding the old AHM/Rivarossi GG-1, the
various IHC/Mehano motors and the old PEMCO motors, leads me to add my
$2.00's worth.  Okay, it's a bit much :-) but I used to work for IHC a
few years back, and I know the fellow who worked on the PEMCO model.

First, the AHM/Rivarossi model is correct for road numbers listed by one
of the respondents (my appologies for forgetting your name), and is as
close in length as you'll be able to get unless you buy brass--and then
it's almost imperceptible.  The PEMCO GG-1 is in fact a clone of the
Rivarossi body and pantograph.  

The pantograph is mostly formed stamped metal--not bad for something
designed about 30 years ago, and it works well for live catenary
operation.  If you want higher reach, carefully bend the lock-down tab
(just under the ends of the twin pick-up shoe) down just far enough to
clear the side frame of the pan.  It'll spring way up, so if you're
using live wire make sure it's low enough to keep the pan depressed
enough for good pressure.

Originally, the Pemco model had coupler lift bars as did the Rivarossi
model.  This feature and more have returned or been added to the
IHC/Mehano model.  BTW, now's the time to say that after PEMCO went out
of business, Mehano bought their complete line.  IHC began importing it
when Mehano changed out the pancake motor for a dual shafted single
motor which drove 2 of the 3 drive axles (the 2 inboard ones) on each
side of the articulated frame.  Over time, more weight was added,
coupler lift bars came back, a selector switch was added to run either
from track-only or from overhead with track return, the third drive axle
was powered, and more accurate paint schemes were introduced (so far,
all my doing to this point [hey, if I don't sound my own horn, nobody
else will]).  Later some more paint schemes were added, as was the
remotoring and I think flywheels also, but I don't have the latest
version, so I can't vouch for the flywheels.

There were at least three different pilot shapes on the prototypes, and
of course there were different air intake configurations.  The model is
I guess what one could call the most "classic" rendition.  So-o-o-o,
some of the road numbers and their paint schemes won't be 100% correct.
Also, early on, it was common to make one body with DGLE color and
another with Tuscan, but use the same print pads for the stripes and
road numbers on each color--it was cheaper.

About the only thing I could suggest to improve the model would be to
replace the molded-on handrails and grabs with wire, but then you'd ruin
an otherwise decent paint job.

Hope this answers everybody's questions about the models.

If anybody is interested in getting Pennsy type catenary poles, contact
me off list.

Charlie Fox

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From: <Hal6963@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 08:52:06 EDT
Subject: [PRR] Pennsy GL & GLA Hoppers
Content-Length: 493

Does anyony other than Westerfield manufacture this car? Need to build 30 to
40 cars.

Thanks

Harold
Modeling the Middle Division

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From: <LINESWEST@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 10:04:08 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Engines
Content-Length: 1094

In a message dated 6/12/98 10:43:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
shadow@dementia.org writes:

<< Since you've reminded me, you told me a while ago how you intended to
 model one or both of the H-10-44 and H-12-44, one with a Walthers, and one
 with a Cary; Does that sound right? I lost the mail, but I remember you
 had some ideas which sounded interesting.
 
 -D >>
D-,

Still do. 
	The Cary is correct for PRR H-10-44, Story on modifying Anthearn SW 7/9 frame
in 11/90 Mainline Modeler. I've got a copy.
	I've yet to discern any correct prototype for Walther's FM shifter.  It has
elements of  both H-10 and H-12, For a Pennsy H-12-44 it's very close if you
remove Lowery's "porch roof" and get the re-nose kit.

Tom V.

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Subject: [PRR] Another Year, another Bowser
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 98 10:59:22 -0400
From: Jerry <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 978

Dag, gotta keep my wife around...another anniversary, another Bowser!

Yes, folks, this is year 11. And she got me a Bowser H-9. Of course, I 
had told her that if she ever got it for me I would number it 613...a 
prototype number for an H9 and also our anniversary date!

Those who've been on the list for some time will recall that she got me a 
K-4 for our 10th. Hmmm, maybe an E-6 for next year?

-----------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
-----------------------------------------------


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From: Jim Clay <jclay@paonline.com>
Subject: [PRR] E-7 Horn
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 13:48:37 -0400
Content-Length: 1095

I am considering installing a Soundtrax DCC sound module in a LL P2K E-7 
and was wondering if any of the EMD sounds available  are prototypically 
correct for a PRR E-7  running in 1950.   The options available from 
Soundtraxx are

EMD 1st generation w/WABCO horn
EMD 1st generation w/Leslie 3-chime horn
EMD 1st generation w/Nathan 3-chime horn

I've searched the PRR-Talk archive (great feature Jerry!)  and was unable 
to locate any info on this topic.  Thanks in advance for your help.  BTW 
Soundtraxx's  website has some  sound samples which you can listen to if 
you are interested.  Their address is

http://www.soundtraxx.com

Jim Clay
Attempting to model a portion of 	
the PRR Middle Division from 1950.



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From: <CENTGA@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 20:21:34 EDT
Subject: [PRR] N5C Underframe
Content-Length: 510

Does anyone have drawings for an N5C underframe details?  I bought an Alco
brass model and I want to add the underframe details.   Thanks Todd Horton   

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From: <BBReynolds@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 21:55:56 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] fwd: PRR history from NS
Content-Length: 1262

In a message dated 98-06-12 21:45:38 EDT, you write:

<< June 12, 1998
 Norfolk Southern Public Relations
 
 [ ... ]
 
 Conrail Heritage 
 	In March of 1937, the nation was planning President Franklin D. 
 Roosevelt's second-term inauguration. For weeks prior, the Pennsylvania 
 Railroad, a Conrail predecessor line, planned how to best handle the 
 surge of passengers traveling to Washington, D.C., for the event. 
 Anticipating more than 50,000 passengers, the railroad decided to halt 
 all freight traffic between New York and Washington for 12 hours and 
 concentrate on the operation of passenger trains. When the rush was 
 over, tabulations showed the Pennsylvania Railroad had provided service 
 to more than 68,000 persons in a 24-hour period. 
  >>

NS should have dug a little deeper: I recall that the PRR total NY/DC
passenger count on Xmas eve, 1944 was c. 244,000....

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From: <VVA249@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 22:26:42 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] fwd: PRR history from NS
Content-Length: 935

John Kneiling "The proffesional iconclast" in TRAINS called the PRR during WW
2 "The Big Red Subway" and recounted how other Railroads would run their
scheduled trains and tell the folks still waiting "Come back tommorrow" = The
PRR would keep pulling cars crews and locomotives out of the train yard until
all were served - though you might be sitting on your suitcase or rattan seats
in a 19th century day coach or on wood slats in a converted box car Pennsy
"The Big Red Subway" never left a customer on the platform - sad Kneiling as a
WW 2 rider of trains
Dick Ross

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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 06:34:16 -0700
From: Bill Daniels <bdaniels@rtd.com>
Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 06/14/98
Content-Length: 847

> << June 12, 1998
>  Norfolk Southern Public Relations
>
>  [ ... ]
>
>  Conrail Heritage
>         In March of 1937, the nation was planning President Franklin D.
>  Roosevelt's second-term inauguration.

If I recall correctly, FDR's second-term inauguration was in January, not March. The date
was moved up to January 20 for his first inauguration, where it remains today. Sounds
like NS is getting thier facts from the guy who wrote TRIUMPH ONE.

Bill Daniels
Tucson, AZ


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From: <LINESWEST@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 12:59:02 EDT
Subject: [PRR] A GR&I RR Hist. Soc.! and LW Fan Fest update
Content-Length: 3694

To all:

There's a GR&I RR Historical Society! read this e-mail exchange and get a
update on the PRR Lines West Fan Fest Oct. 17, 1998 in Xenia, Ohio.!

In a message dated 6/13/98 11:38:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
DWilson823@aol.com writes:

<< Just got my notification that next weekend, on 20 June 1998, the Grand
Rapids & Indiana Railroad Historical Society is holding our quarterly
meeting.>>

Saints Preserve Us! I had no idea that such an organization existed for "The
Fishing Line!" please forward membership information to:

Tom Vondruska
326 W. Center College St.
Yellow Springs, Ohio 45387-1406

<<If you could forward all the information available for the West Fest,
(dates, times, locations, and of course costs), I will make sure this
information is passed around the meeting.

	I'm reserving facilities in Xenia, Ohio, for weekend of Oct. 17, 1998, the
center of operations will be at the Greene County (Ohio) Historical Society
Carriage House Museum. h. This is home of the "Operating Diorama of Xenia"s
(Ohio) Railroads," an HO layout accurately decipting the Pennsy lines, yards,
stations\, towers and service facilities in Xenia from the 1920s to 1950.
Xenia was the junction of the Columbus and Cincinnati Divisions where the
Xenia-Cincinnati and Xenia-Dayton-Richmond mainlines and the Springfield
Secondary split off from the Columbus-Xenia mainline and the Columbus-Xenia-
Cincinnati mainline crossed by the B&O's "Dayton & Ironton" Ironton branch.
	Room and lodging package is being prepared. There will be a vendor's area.
Advance single day registration will be $10 and will include a copy of the
Greene Co. Hist. Soc.'s "Next Stop: Xenia," an overview of the Pennsylvania
and other the other raiilroad which served Greene County.
	Some events will be held at "Xenia Station," a recently-completed replica of
the PRR's GW Tower, whcih was also Xenia's last passenger station. If vendor
interest is great enough, I may place the vendor's area at a Nationaol Guard
Armory two blocks from the museum.

Confirmed Seminars

Liberty Models: building cast resin kits featuring their soon to be released
N8 cabin car kit
					making resin castings

Greene County Historical Society: The Pennsylvania RR in Xenia
										   Historically Accurate Modeling

	I plan to have a self-guided tour to Pennsy points of interest in West
Central Ohio and possibly Cincinnati. Am trying to organize a fan trip Sun.
Oct. 18 on the Turtle Creek Valley Railway, the former Indiana & Ohio RR
passenger excursion operation in Monroe, Ohio that uses the ex-PRR Lebanon and
Midlletown Branches between Cincinnati, Dayton and Xenia.
	The GR&I's southern terminus in Richmond isn't too far away. It'd be great to
have some one in your group present a seminar on the Muskegon-Milwaukee ferry
service, serving the Copper mines, "The North Wind," ore something else about
the GR&I.
	And, of course, it'd be great for the GR&I Railroad Hist. Soc. to have an
information table.

	Since I'm a committee of one, I'm purposely trying to keep the Lines West
Fans Fest small. E-mail me a snail mail address so I can get you a brochure..
	  
<<Thank you in advance, and hope to meet you in October, if the boss lets me
have the time off. >>

Thank you for your interest!

Tom V. 

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From: <Prr1187@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 13:06:37 EDT
Subject: Re:  [PRR] Pennsy  GLA Hoppers
Content-Length: 949

Accurail makes a 55 ton twin hopper of 1917 USRA design which is very
close to the PRR GLA.   I purchased a six pack, catalog #2606, which had
six different road numbers.   The GLA car sides were 5 inches shorter
than the USRA, plus the car itself sat 3 inches closer to the rail, which
means that the top cord was 8 inches overall closer to the rail.
The length, width and wheel base were very close.  The cubic ft capacity
of the GLA was 220 less than the USRA.  Since you are building a huge
fleet, the Accurail car would save you much time for the little
differences.

Dennis S.

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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 17:39:48 +0100
From: J Bruce Andrews <bandrews@apdevint.mv.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy  GLA Hoppers
Content-Length: 1277

Prr1187@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Accurail makes a 55 ton twin hopper of 1917 USRA design which is very
> close to the PRR GLA.....The Accurail car would save you much time for
> the little differences.
> 
> Dennis S.
> 

Comparison of the Accurail model with photos of the GLA shows most the
visible differences to be around the ends of the cars, particularly in
the area of the endsill. In my opinion, it would be fairly easy to
kitbash the Accurail into something that looked more like the GLA by
changing only a few things around the ends. I am considering doing this
to a six pack plus 1 of these cars which I have. Although I do not have
any experience yet, but I have seen a few systems for making molds and
casting parts in resin. If one only had to scrape off part of the old
sill then add a new casting, it would be possible to upgrade a fleet of
cars. Anyway, that would be one way to go.

Bruce

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From: <BBReynolds@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 22:12:56 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 06/14/98
Content-Length: 807

In a message dated 98-06-14 09:39:28 EDT, you write:

<< > << June 12, 1998
 >  Norfolk Southern Public Relations
 >
 >  [ ... ]
 >
 >  Conrail Heritage
 >         In March of 1937, the nation was planning President Franklin D.
 >  Roosevelt's second-term inauguration.
  >>

FDR 1st term began 1933-03-04; 2nd term began 1937-01-20; constitutional
amendment (#21???) shortened the "lame duck" period between election and
swearing in...

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From: <KEMACPRR@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 00:48:51 EDT
Subject: [PRR] Keystones
Content-Length: 727

Found the following on one of AOL's newsgroups. 
  For sale 60 issues of the Keystone in excellent condition   $250
     Heavysteam@aol.com
This might be a good way to fill out your Keystone collection. I have dealt
with Heavysteam on previous purchases and had no problems what so ever. 
                                                                 Ken McCorry

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From: "Michael B. Dettinger" <detting@pobox.upenn.edu>
Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 09:41:35 -0400 (EDT)
Content-Length: 1988

Dick,

> Don't have one handy right now but I believe the IHC/ Ravs were fairly
> close to the correct length.(79 feet seems to stick in my rusty, dusty
> mind.) I do remember that the old Penn Line metal GG1's were about 10
> feet to short.  I thought that the Penn Lines might make a good basis
> for an R-1 kitbash, but haven't looked any further at that.

I was also thinking about some use for those "shortie" GG1s as well.  The 
two big problems with the R-1 are the need for a completely new frame and 
all those rivets.  

Probably a better choice would be the DD2.  It had a welded body.  It 
also had an articulated frame like the GG1.  I suspect if you removed the 
middle drivers and reworked the side frames you may get reasonably 
close.  This is all the further I got as well.

Mike

-- 
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Subject: [PRR] K4 Tenders - GREAT NEWS
From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 98 10:13:22 -0400
Content-Length: 1252

As we all know, for years Bowser had an adequate L1 tender which it used both
on the L1 and on the K4.  SPFs floundered around for a correct K4 Tender for
their Bowsers. (My floundering consisted of shortening the I1's long distance
tender)
 Well, the North Shore Model RR Club just bought the latest release of the
Bowser L1 2-8-2, and lo and behold, it comes with a correct 130P75 tender!! It
even has the "canted" rear stirrups used on passenger tenders which had no rear
footboards!  Of course, this tender is wrong for almost all L1s, but I am
guessing that it's Bowsers new standard tender and therefore appears in the K4
kits as well.  So save your old tenders for your L1s and buy the new ones for
the K4s.

BTW, the rivet detail is far more dainty than the old castings.  In general the
130P75 appears to be a real winner!  

Regards,

Andy Miller
asmiller@mitre.org


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Subject: Re: [PRR] K4 Tenders - GREAT NEWS
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 98 11:07:14 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1409

On 6/15/98 10:13 AM, Andrew S. Miller (asmiller@mail11.mitre.org) wrote:

> Well, the North Shore Model RR Club just bought the latest release of the
>Bowser L1 2-8-2, and lo and behold, it comes with a correct 130P75 
>tender!! It
>even has the "canted" rear stirrups used on passenger tenders which had no 
>rear
>footboards!  Of course, this tender is wrong for almost all L1s, but I am
>guessing that it's Bowsers new standard tender and therefore appears in 
>the K4
>kits as well.  So save your old tenders for your L1s and buy the new ones for
>the K4s.
>
>BTW, the rivet detail is far more dainty than the old castings.  In 
>general the
>130P75 appears to be a real winner!  

Anyone know if they are selling it separately?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
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Subject: [PRR] Connections with State College, Pa.
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 98 11:43:09 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1651

Figure this one's for Mike Bezilla, but I'll ask to all:

Seeking clarification on connections to State College, Pa. SC has a 
passenger station right on College Avenue. Trains backed in from the 
west, where there was a turning wye in the area of the present day Agway 
store. I believe that this same line ran out around Scotia, where there 
was iron ore.

Where did this line connect in with the Pennsy? I know it eventually fed 
through the Bald Eagle Branch. I had thought it connected via Bellefonte, 
but now think it was, perhaps, farther west.

The Bald Eagle Branch connected to Bellefonte via Milesburg. A branch out 
of Bellefonte went west to the base of Mt. Nittany where it turned back 
east and headed to Sunbury. This also offered limited passenger traffic 
to State College, but left passengers stranded two miles or so east of 
the town.

In summary, the line that actually entered State College from the west, 
did it connect to the PRR via Bellefonte?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
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From: <SUVCWORR@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:22:09 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] Connections with State College, Pa.
Content-Length: 858

Jerry:

This line was the Belefonte Central.  The tracks approximately paralleled PA
Rt 550 from Scotia into Belefonte where the BC joined the PRR at Belefonte
Jct.  Most passenger service to the State College area was attained at Lemont.
The PRR ran passenger trains over the Belefonte - Lewistown branch into the
50's.  Until air travel became commonplace all the PSU teams traveled by train
from Lemont.  

The BC tracks ran behind OW Houts and also served the PSU power plant.

Rich Orr

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Subject: Re: [PRR] Connections with State College, Pa.
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 98 13:17:15 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1774

On 6/15/98 12:22 PM, SUVCWORR@aol.com (SUVCWORR@aol.com) wrote:

>This line was the Belefonte Central.  The tracks approximately paralleled PA
>Rt 550 from Scotia into Belefonte where the BC joined the PRR at Belefonte
>Jct.  Most passenger service to the State College area was attained at 
>Lemont.
>The PRR ran passenger trains over the Belefonte - Lewistown branch into the
>50's.  Until air travel became commonplace all the PSU teams traveled by 
>train
>from Lemont.  
>
>The BC tracks ran behind OW Houts and also served the PSU power plant.

Did the BC then run like this...

                                Milesburg & PRR
                                /
Scotia                         /
 ------------------------------ Bellefonte
 |                             |
 \                             |
  \                      _____/
   | State College       | Lemont
                         \
                          \_________ to Sunbury

...with both an eastern approach towards State College, ending at Lemont, 
and a western approach, which actually entered State College?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
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Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

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Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:24:18 -0400
From: mxb13@psu.edu (Michael Bezilla)
Subject: Re: [PRR] Connections with State College, Pa.
Content-Length: 2431

>Seeking clarification on connections to State College, Pa. SC has a
>passenger station right on College Avenue. Trains backed in from the
>west, where there was a turning wye in the area of the present day Agway
>store. I believe that this same line ran out around Scotia, where there
>was iron ore.

Yes, all correct. The Bellefonte Central. It ran between Bellefonte & State
College via just the eastern fringe of what is known locally as "the
Barrens," iron ore country at one time, tho it did not run directly thru
the viillage of Scotia, which was located more in the heart of the Barrens.


>Where did this line connect in with the Pennsy? I know it eventually fed
>through the Bald Eagle Branch. I had thought it connected via Bellefonte,
>but now think it was, perhaps, farther west.

Connected at Bellefonte at the east end of the PRR yard there. Not in the
borough proper but in that part of Spring township known as Sunnyside.
Also, for a few years c. 1929-33, BFC interchanged with PRR at Tyrone
(FORGE), the BFC having bought the PRR's Fairbrook branch. But the PRR
wouldn't give BFC any traffic there, and BFC lost an appeal to the ICC, so
Tyrone didn't last as an interchange point.



>The Bald Eagle Branch connected to Bellefonte via Milesburg. A branch out
>of Bellefonte went west to the base of Mt. Nittany where it turned back
>east and headed to Sunbury. This also offered limited passenger traffic
>to State College, but left passengers stranded two miles or so east of
>the town.

Yes, that would be the PRR's L&T, Lewisburg & Tyrone branch. Lots of Penn
State students arrived/departed via Lemont, probably more than used the
in-town BFC, because the BFC train to Bellefonte took a longer than a
bus/cab/carriage ride to Lemont.


>In summary, the line that actually entered State College from the west,
>did it connect to the PRR via Bellefonte?

Yes, see above. The BFC started from Bellefonte heading west, then curved
south through the Barrens, and then entered State College from the west.

Mike



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Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:37:19 -0400
From: mxb13@psu.edu (Michael Bezilla)
Subject: Re: [PRR] Connections with State College, Pa.
Content-Length: 1246

>
>Did the BC then run like this...
>
>                                Milesburg & PRR
>                                /
>Scotia                         /
> ------------------------------ Bellefonte
> |                             |
> \                             |
>  \                      _____/
>   | State College       | Lemont
>                         \
>                          \_________ to Sunbury
>
>...with both an eastern approach towards State College, ending at Lemont,
>and a western approach, which actually entered State College?

No, it approached State College from the west only via Scotia as you have
shown. The PRR tracks ran on a line Milesburg-Bellefonte-Lemont-Sunbury.
The only PRR-BFC connection was at Sunnyside (Bellefonte) as noted in my
earlier post. There was never a connecting track between State College &
Lemont.

Mike




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Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:52:17 -0700
From: Craig Bowman <bowman@fullerton.edu>
Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg track plans
Content-Length: 1260

Does anyone have track plans, valuation plans,
Sanborn Fire Insurance maps, photographs
(aerial or otherwise) or anything else that shows
the area immediately south of the Harrisburg
station around 1956?  Jerry and I have
talked about the location of the REA
services in Harrisburg in the mid-50's,
and we both seem to remember that
there were tracks behind a large building
on Second Street, between the Reading
railroad tracks that crossed the river
and the C.V. tracks into the station. I also
recall that in the early '60's there was a fruit company
in this building.  What did the tracks look
like behind it?  And where exactly was the
REA building?  This whole area was redeveloped
in the early '70's, I think.  The only traces left are the
underpasses in the base of the (former) Reading bridge.

Does anyone from the Harrisburg NRHS know of
any documents?

Craig Bowman



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From: staffsgtyork@juno.com
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:32:28 -0700
Subject: [PRR] Bachman K4 controversy......
Content-Length: 2204

Greetings to all,

I hope I've sent this to the correct address for the PRR chat group. 
I've been a member for 2-3 weeks, and have only sent mail to individuals
on reply because I wasn't a 100% sure if this was the correct address to
"address" the group.

I manage Pro Custom Hobbies in Eldersburg MD (410-549-9169).  One of the
owners gave me the skinny on the Bachman K4 as he is the HO repair man.
I believe they were released in 3 waves, each slightly improved.  The
weight problem should be resolved this Fall, as the Consolidated shows. 
Bachman does learn from their mistakes.  The wobble is probably best
addressed as one member said by the adjustment on the driver's bosses. 
The worst problem with the early releases was a hollow "tube" axle that
would crack and weaken the pulling power.  This was fixed in the last
release, which pulled better and performed well compared to the early
runs.

As for tender accuracy, well, I can't exactly say.  But if you can't or
won't pay for brass, you've got to live with what you can pay for (or
practice the time honored skill of the craftsman scratch builder).  I am
pleased that so many manufacturers are making visible effort to improve
their products.  As a group who wishes to preserve the accuracy of the P
double R, we have insight that these manufactures could use (if kindly
addressed as polite suggestion instead of indignant scathing as some of
my customers like to do).

But on the brightest side of the coin, what choices we have today that
didn't even exist 10 years ago!

Sincerely,

David W. "SGT" York

_____________________________________________________________________
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From: "Greg Stone" <gas@fastinet.net>
Subject: [PRR] X-23 and X-26?
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 16:08:26 -0700
Content-Length: 1322

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_008A_01BD97AE.A9A04AC0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Has anyone been able to check out wether or not the X-23 and X-26 =
boxcars at Cedarville, Ohio are still in existence? Greg Stone=20

------=_NextPart_000_008A_01BD97AE.A9A04AC0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Has anyone been able to check out =
wether or not=20
the X-23 and X-26 boxcars at Cedarville, Ohio are still in existence? =
Greg Stone=20
</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_008A_01BD97AE.A9A04AC0--


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From: "Greg Stone" <gas@fastinet.net>
Subject: [PRR] Two X23 boxcars?
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 15:49:58 -0700
Content-Length: 1683

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BD97AC.15874E80
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am still not clear as to wether or not there are two X23 boxcars being =
preserved. Does anyone know about TWO X23 boxcars being preserved? It is =
clear to me that an X23 at Enola is being shipped via truck to Stasburg. =
Is there another? Where is it? Where is it going and how?  Thanks, Greg =
Stone=20

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I am still not clear as to wether or =
not there=20
are two X23 boxcars being preserved. Does anyone know about TWO X23 =
boxcars=20
being preserved? It is clear to me that an X23 at Enola is being shipped =
via=20
truck to Stasburg. Is there another? Where is it? Where is it going and=20
how?&nbsp; Thanks, Greg Stone </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Greg Stone" <gas@fastinet.net>
Subject: [PRR] NEA Cabin Car
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 15:46:16 -0700
Content-Length: 1475

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Does anyone have a photo or source for a photo of an NEA cabin car. I am =
looking in particular for a photo showing the cupola door. You may =
contact me at GAS@fastinet.net Greg Stone

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Does anyone have a photo or source =
for a photo=20
of an NEA cabin car. I am looking in particular for a photo showing the =
cupola=20
door. You may contact me at <A=20
href=3D"mailto:GAS@fastinet.net">GAS@fastinet.net</A> Greg=20
Stone</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Greg Stone" <gas@fastinet.net>
Subject: [PRR] Renovo
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 15:44:15 -0700
Content-Length: 1531

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am still looking for photos or information on the Renovo yards. Does =
anyone have the book on the Philadelphia and Erie Railroad available for =
sale.You may contact me at GAS@fastinet.net    Greg Stone

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I am still looking for photos or =
information on=20
the Renovo yards. Does anyone have the book on the Philadelphia and Erie =

Railroad available for sale.You may contact me at <A=20
href=3D"mailto:GAS@fastinet.net">GAS@fastinet.net</A>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Greg=20
Stone</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 15:08:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: alcoman <alcoman@net.bluemoon.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Renovo
Content-Length: 1304

Can I make a simple request here, can you please not post to the list in
HTML format, there is a setting in Outlook Express where you can set it
for either HTML or plain text.  HTML comes across in it's raw format when
a person is using a UNIX account in order to read mail.

Thanks


On Sun, 14 Jun 1998, Greg Stone wrote:

> I am still looking for photos or information on the Renovo yards. 
> Does anyone have the book on the Philadelphia and Erie Railroad 
> available for sale.You may contact me at GAS@fastinet.net    Greg Stone
> 

William J. Enser          Co-Network Administrator
                          Technical Support & Validations 
alcoman@bluemoon.net      net.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Online System
X2 & K56flex Access       www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network       
http://www.bluemoon.net   mud.bluemoon.net 4000 - MoonMUD
bbs.bluemoon.net          irc.bluemoon.net - ZUHnet Buffalo, NY IRC Server




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From: Mark D Bej <bejm@eeg.ccf.org>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Renovo (fwd)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 15:47:29 EDT
Content-Length: 1076

> Can I make a simple request here, can you please not post to the list in
> HTML format, there is a setting in Outlook Express where you can set it
> for either HTML or plain text.  HTML comes across in it's raw format when
> a person is using a UNIX account in order to read mail.
> 
> Thanks


What, don't you _like_ getting 2 copies of each email?

Besides, aren't you forgetting that Microsoft _invented_ email and the
Internet and all that stuff?  After all, there's that icon, "The Internet",
plastered right there on the Microsoft Desktop!  Just gotta get with the
program, man!  (Oh, and don't forget to send Uncle Bill that $50 per month
"crash insurance".)

--
Mark D. Bej
bejm@eeg.ccf.org 

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Subject: [PRR] PRR eqipment diagrams...
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 98 16:54:41 -0400
From: Rob Schoenberg <robs@gatefield.com>
Content-Length: 621

Hi all,

I finally have all of the boxcar, flatcar and stockcar equipment diagrams scanned (some of the hoppers
too.)  They're at http://prr.railfan.net/freight/viewdiagram.cgi  I'll be adding more as I get them
finished.

Rob Schoenberg
robs@gatefield.com 

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Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 17:24:43 -0400
From: Chris Brandt <cobrandt@eclipse.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] tangent (was RE: Renovo)
Content-Length: 1355

Mark D Bej wrote:
> What, don't you _like_ getting 2 copies of each email?
> 
> Besides, aren't you forgetting that Microsoft _invented_ email and the
> Internet and all that stuff?  After all, there's that icon, "The Internet",
> plastered right there on the Microsoft Desktop!  Just gotta get with the
> program, man!  (Oh, and don't forget to send Uncle Bill that $50 per month
> "crash insurance".)
> 

Now, let's give ol' Bill some credit. I mean it's not just anyone who
can take the absolutely worst operating system known to man and make it
the industry standard.

-- $0.02         
          _________
        __\   _   /__
--------\    | )    /-----------------------------------------------
---------\  |}/|}  /---------Chris Brandt---------------------------
----------\ |\ |\ /----------mailto:cobrandt@eclipse.net------------
-----------\ |   /-----------http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/------
------------\___/---------------------------------------------------

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From: "Greg Leary" <greglear@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR eqipment diagrams...
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 00:44:25 -0400
Content-Length: 1649

Rob,

     I just wanted to write and say what a terrific site you've developed
(and to anyone else who may have contributed: THANKS!)!!!  This site is
excellent!  Thank you for sharing this wealth of information!  I am sure
this project consumed much of your time.  Again, thank you (and to all
others that helped), in developing this terrific site.

Sincerely,

Greg Leary (electronically signed)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Rob
> Schoenberg
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 1998 4:55 PM
> To: prr-talk@dsop.com
> Subject: [PRR] PRR eqipment diagrams...
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I finally have all of the boxcar, flatcar and stockcar equipment
> diagrams scanned (some of the hoppers
> too.)  They're at http://prr.railfan.net/freight/viewdiagram.cgi
> I'll be adding more as I get them
> finished.
>
> Rob Schoenberg
> robs@gatefield.com
>
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Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 08:50:12 -0400
From: Drew McGhee <drm6@psu.edu>
Subject: P&E Book was Re: [PRR] Renovo
Content-Length: 923

Greetings to Greg and the group,

I got a copy of Rosenberger's P&E book last winter through amazon.com. It's
the first item I ever ordered from them. Took about 8 weeks for them to
track a copy down. Price was around $30.00. I'm 100% satisfied with their
service.

Drew R. McGhee
Altoona, PA


At 03:44 PM 6/14/98 -0700, Greg Stone wrote:
>    I am still looking for photos or information on  the Renovo yards. Does
>anyone have the book on the Philadelphia and Erie  Railroad available for
>sale.You may contact me at GAS@fastinet.net    Greg  Stone 

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Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 00:25:42 -0800
From: Ron Dugas <rond@efn.org>
Subject: [PRR] Kato N-Scale PA's.
Content-Length: 936

Hi All,

If anyone is having trouble locating Kato PA's in Pennsy paint I know
where there is an ABA set (#'s 5752, 5753, 5750B). E-mail me directly
and I'll point you in their direction. They're not mail order
discounters so you'll have to work out your own deal with them.

I've seen the set they ordered in for me and they are beautiful. Can't
wait to get the cash to bring them home. I own an ABA set of ConCor's in
Tuscan 5-stripe that, surprise!, actually run pretty nice, but I've
wanted a set in DGLE ever since I learned they were delivered that way.

Ron.


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Subject: [PRR] Mill Hall, Pa.
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 98 11:06:50 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1171

At Mill Hall, Pa., the Bald Eagle Branch interchanges with the NYC. I 
found the CTC article in Rails Northeast and it contains a track chart of 
the Bald Eagle Branch. Here is Mill Hall:

        ___/
___________\___________
W            /    E to Loch Haven

Question:

How does the NCY interchange?

Is the stub siding an interchange siding with the NCY entering it from 
the switch to the NE shown?

Does the NYC just come alongside the BE, or does it pass over/under it at 
some point here?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html


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Subject: [PRR] Loch Haven to Williamsport
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 98 11:07:38 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 765

Any loco facilities on the Buffalo-Harrisburg line between Loch Haven and 
Williamsport?

Era is 1954.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html


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Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 11:28:45 -0400
From: mxb13@psu.edu (Michael Bezilla)
Subject: Re: [PRR] Loch Haven to Williamsport
Content-Length: 652

>Any loco facilities on the Buffalo-Harrisburg line between Loch Haven and
>Williamsport?
>
>Era is 1954.

Not to my knowledge. Drew, did they have anything over on the south side
there at the wye at Linden? A coaling tower maybe, for thru trains not
going into Newberry/Williamsport?



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From: "Thomas K. Trower" <tktrower@earthlink.net>
Subject: [PRR] Broadway Limited
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 13:01:16 -0400
Content-Length: 517

What can be said about the PRR Broadway Limited, was anybody fortunate enough to ride her?? What was it like? Being 15 I am an Amtrak era person.

Josh Trower

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Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 10:00:53 -0700
From: Bill Daniels <bdaniels@rtd.com>
Subject: [PRR] PRR locomotives for sale
Content-Length: 1061

I have the following PRR steam locomotives for sale...e-mail me for details or offers.
1) Bowser L1s, frame partially assembled, with detail kit and Alco (ex-Helix humper) repowering
kit...$150.00
2) Bowser A5s kit with detail package...$110.00
3) Bowser I1s kit w/ short (L1s) tender...$100.00
4) Bowser E6s kit...$80.00
5) Red Ball K4s (brass) 5497, mint (not original box)...$275.00
6) Atlas AS-10 (S-2) (OK...so it ain't steam. Sue me)...$75.00

Of course, postage is extra. I also have some car kits for sale (some PRR, but also lots of other kits as
well...Intermountain, Tichy, RC, and others). Let me know, and I will e-mail a list (when I get it done
:-)
Bill Daniels
Tucson, AZ



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From: "jbreon" <jbreon@email.msn.com>
Subject: [PRR] HO TrucTrain Models
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 14:46:36 -0400
Content-Length: 735

      Is there anyone out there who could help put me in touch with any of
the Cincinnatti modelers group who attended the PRRT&HS convention in
Lancaster last month? I am interested in information on the PRR TrucTrain
models that were displayed and in particular, am looking for a source for
trailer decals such as "RISS" and "Eastern Express". Thanks.

Jerry Breon




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Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 15:05:50 -0400
From: Drew McGhee <drm6@psu.edu>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Mill Hall, Pa.
Content-Length: 3435

Greatings to Jerry and the group,

The NYC line ducked under the PRR just east of the PRR/NYC interchange
yard.  This duck under and the interchange itself were all just west of
Mill Hall. The order of things is as follows heading east from MP 50 on
PRR's BE Branch; MP 50, interchange yard to the north of the BE Branch,
interchange yard switch (trailing point for east bound PRR trains), the
overpass of the NYC, PRR's Mill Hall Water Street grade crossing and then
immediatly over Fishing Creek. The NYC headed to Beach Creek and points
north from this overpass.

>From the overpass to Browns (between RICH and PINE on the PRR) the NYC
tracks were to the south of the PRR. At Browns, the NYC crossed over the
PRR Buffalo line and the WB Susquehanna to get to Avis. From Avis to
Newberry the NYC tracks were north of the PRR tracks.

The interchange was a two track affair coming together into a stub track.
One of the two tracks connected with the PRR. The other with the NYC. These
two tracks came together to form a stub ended track. The stub is where the
cars to be interchanged were put. An east bound PRR freight would back in
on the southern interchange track and pick-up/set-out interchange cars
off/on the stub.

On the NYC, a southbound (eastward compass direction at this point) would
do likewise. The NYC freight would stop at the trailing point switch (for
south bound NYC trains) back in on the northern interchange yard track and
pick-up/set-out cars off/on the stub track. 

I haven't been able to find any trace of the interchange yard. I haven't
walked the old NYC road bed due to the water and heavy vegatation. I don't
get down that way in the late fall or winter. The PRR overpass of the NYC
is still in place. The NYC tracks made a very sharp and tight 'S' curve as
they swung under the PRR. There is a foot or two of water on the old NYC
roadbed. Maybe this is where the term "Water Level Route" came from. You
can easily get to this overpass. It is just behind the Bald Eagle Nittany
(BEN) High School shop building. I explored this area rather extensively
prior to Conrail's running of the coal trains of the old BE Branch. That
section of the BE Branch was not being used at all then. BE WARNED, those
Conrail coal trains run very fast. I would not do the exploring as I did
then now due to the danger of being surprised by one of those Conrail trains.

Hope this helps and is not too confusing.

Drew R. McGhee
Altoona, PA

At 11:06 AM 6/18/98 -0400, Jerry_Britton wrote:
>At Mill Hall, Pa., the Bald Eagle Branch interchanges with the NYC. I 
>found the CTC article in Rails Northeast and it contains a track chart of 
>the Bald Eagle Branch. Here is Mill Hall:
>
>        ___/
>___________\___________
>W            /    E to Loch Haven
>
>Question:
>
>How does the NCY interchange?
>
>Is the stub siding an interchange siding with the NCY entering it from 
>the switch to the NE shown?
>
>Does the NYC just come alongside the BE, or does it pass over/under it at 
>some point here?


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Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 15:28:26 -0400
From: Drew McGhee <drm6@psu.edu>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Loch Haven to Williamsport
Content-Length: 2209

Greetings to Jerry, Mike and the group,

Lock Haven (Lock like a canal lock, which is how Lock Haven gots its name.)
had a turntable and roundhouse in the early P&E days. These were located
between Bellefont Ave and Fifth Street. Claster's, now Your's, lumber
warehouse is in the old roundhouse. I'm not sure when these steam
facilities were shut down but it was probably well before the 40s. There
was a yard in this area too that incuded a car scall and freight house,
which burnt down in the 70s. This yard turned a storage yard. PP&L's "The
Energy of Man" train set up twice here in the 70s.

I have seen photos, namely in the Reading's Steam Color book, that seem to
show a coaling tower in the yards behind Piper Aircraft (LANE to LOCK
HAVEN). It seems to have been located somewhere near Lock Haven's present
sewer plant. Employee TTs of the early 50s indicate that a water column, at
least, if not a tank was at Lock Haven. I haven't seen photos that indicate
a tank in that area.

Linden had a water column (t least don't know if a tank was there) proabaly
to replenish trains that didn't have to go into Williamsport itself. The
PRR had a turntable/roundhouse coal tower and water column (again don't
know for sure about a tank) at the Williamsport yards, not to be confused
with Newberry where the PRR interchanged with the Reading and NYC. The
Williamsport yards were where Little League Blvd runs now. The Sanborns of
Williamsport show these old stam facilities as well as the yard well.

I'll check my TTs. There was other water facilities between Lock Haven
Williamsport. I'll pass the info along in another post.

Drew R. McGhee
Altoona, PA


At 11:07 AM 6/18/98 -0400, Jerry_Britton wrote:
>Any loco facilities on the Buffalo-Harrisburg line between Loch Haven and 
>Williamsport?
>
>Era is 1954.


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Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 15:57:08 -0400
From: mxb13@psu.edu (Michael Bezilla)
Subject: Re: [PRR] Loch Haven to Williamsport
Content-Length: 1034

Drew wrote:

>Lock Haven (Lock like a canal lock, which is how Lock Haven gots its name.)
>had a turntable and roundhouse in the early P&E days. These were located
>between Bellefont Ave and Fifth Street. Claster's, now Your's, lumber
>warehouse is in the old roundhouse. I'm not sure when these steam
>facilities were shut down but it was probably well before the 40s. There
>was a yard in this area too

Drew, do you know if the PRR distinguished between the 2 Lock Haven yards,
i.e the one at claster's (where the old footbridge was, right?) and the one
further east of Lock Haven station, where there is still a yard? Or was
this all just "Lock Haven yard"?



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Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 16:21:25 -0400
From: Drew McGhee <drm6@psu.edu>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Loch Haven to Williamsport
Content-Length: 1888

Greetings to mike and the group,

The older yard is the one at the old 4th street foot bridge in Lock Haven
and the newer (present) yard was (is) east of the old PRR passenger
station. (The old P&E passenger station was at the Bellefonte Ave grade
crossing.) The newer/present yard was on the south side of the Buffalo main
between LOCK HAVEN and almost LANE. 

The local employees apparently did have a name for the old yard. In my
convesations with a RICH and LOCK HAVEN tower operator, he called the old
yard Lock Haven west or north. I can't remember, I'll have to check my
notes. He said that when switching was done at that yard, it would take an
entire trick for the crew to get it done many times. This would have been
in the early 50s era. I don't seem to remember the PRR's 1923 or 1945 CT
1000 giving the old yard any special name, if it's even mentioned. I would
very much like to get a copy of a early 50s track plan of the old yard, and
newer yard for that matter. The Sanborns do a good job of the old yard but
don't show the newer one at all. The problem with the Sanborns is trusting
what they show in the way of track details.

Drew R. McGhee
Altoona, PA


At 03:57 PM 6/18/98 -0400, Michael Bezilla wrote:
>Drew wrote:
>
>Drew, do you know if the PRR distinguished between the 2 Lock Haven yards,
>i.e the one at claster's (where the old footbridge was, right?) and the one
>further east of Lock Haven station, where there is still a yard? Or was
>this all just "Lock Haven yard"?


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Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 16:46:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr."  <harperd@tamug.tamu.edu>
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR locomotives for sale
Content-Length: 799

> 1) Bowser L1s, frame partially assembled, with detail kit and Alco (ex-Helix 
> humper) repowering

This reminded me that I had been meaning to ask, and kept forgetting, if someone
could direct me to a web page, address, or phone number, of the company that 
makes these Helix motors.  

Thanks


Don Harper
Texas A&M Marine Lab
5007 Avenue U
Galveston, TX  77551-5926
409/740-4540;  fax 409/740-5002
harperd@tamug.tamu.edu


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Subject: Re: [PRR] Loch Haven to Williamsport
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 98 07:59:12 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 2316

On 6/18/98 3:28 PM, Drew McGhee (drm6@psu.edu) wrote:

First, thanks for the thorough feedback.

>Lock Haven (Lock like a canal lock, which is how Lock Haven gots its name.)
>had a turntable and roundhouse in the early P&E days. These were located
>between Bellefont Ave and Fifth Street. Claster's, now Your's, lumber
>warehouse is in the old roundhouse. I'm not sure when these steam
>facilities were shut down but it was probably well before the 40s. There
>was a yard in this area too that incuded a car scall and freight house,
>which burnt down in the 70s. This yard turned a storage yard. PP&L's "The
>Energy of Man" train set up twice here in the 70s.
>
>I have seen photos, namely in the Reading's Steam Color book, that seem to
>show a coaling tower in the yards behind Piper Aircraft (LANE to LOCK
>HAVEN). It seems to have been located somewhere near Lock Haven's present
>sewer plant. Employee TTs of the early 50s indicate that a water column, at
>least, if not a tank was at Lock Haven. I haven't seen photos that indicate
>a tank in that area.

Where was this engine facility in relation to the junction with the BE 
Branch? East/South of it, or to the West/North of it? Was it north or 
south of the Buffalo line?

I saw Piper Aircraft in the CT1000, along the BE branch. If it is next to 
the loco facility and on the BE branch, that might place things like this:

    loco  \ Buffalo line to Buffalo
       fac \
 piper      \
    air     /\
___________/_S\__________Buffalo line to Williamsport
BE branch

The "S" within the wye would indicate the passenger station.

Does the above seem correct?



-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
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Subject: [PRR] Loch Haven Loco Shop
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 98 08:07:43 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 2251

To Rich, Mike, and the family:

We've discussed, both on the list and off, whether or not there were any 
loco facilities between Loch Haven and Williamsport, circa 1954, for a 
potential modeling project.

One account indicated that there was one at Loch Haven, east of the 
junction with the Bald Eagle Branch. This was backed up by a photo 
showing Piper Aircraft in the background.

Another account indicated that there was one at Loch Haven and that the 
roundhouse is now occupied by Clasters ( a home center).

Given these leads, I checked several sources, and found the following:

Travelling west on the Buffalo line, the 1945 CT1000E reads:

MP 63.7 Piper Aircraft
MP 64.2 Station and Junction with Bald Eagle Branch, east connection
MP 64.4 Junction with Bald Eagle Branch, west connection
MP 64.5 Pennsylvania Electric

Travelling west on the Buffalo line, the 1923 CT1000E reads:

MP 63.3 Siding and "RK" Tower
MP 63.7 Madison Textile
MP 64.2 Station and Junction with Bald Eagle Branch
MP 64.5 Loch Haven Electric
MP 64.5 Clinton Ice and Coal
MP 64.7 Claster's
MP 64.9 Bellefonte Avenue
MP 64.9 Engine House
MP 65.0 Freight

It would seem that the wye connection with the Bald Eagle was not present 
in 1923, but was added before 1945. It is also obvious that the Loch 
Haven Electric was purchased by Pennsylvania Electric. The engine house 
was west of the Bald Eagle junction as indicated in 1923, but was removed 
prior to 1945. Piper Aircraft "may" occupy the facility previously home 
to Madison Textile.

Thanks for all the tips!

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html


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From: Mark D Bej <bejm@eeg.ccf.org>
Subject: [PRR] X-23 Donations
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 15:05:03 EDT
Content-Length: 554


The trickle of donations has come to an end.  I will send them, with a cover
letter, this weekend.

Guys, this is not a terribly good showing.  We have 15 donations max, maybe
20.

--
Mark

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Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 15:13:44 -0400
From: Drew McGhee <drm6@psu.edu>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Loch Haven to Williamsport
Content-Length: 2365

Greetings to Jerry and the group,

ASCII art never comes across well to me but Piper was not on the BE branch.
Take another, very close look at the CT 1000. On the Buffalo line, you'll
see it lists the BE branch west connection then the BE branch east
connection, boom that's it, then Piper. Piper was on the north side of the
Buffalo line just east of the Lock Haven tower. 

You need to look elsewhere for the BE branch stuff. It's something like
Penn Woven Wire , Atlantic Richfield Refining, NY and PA Pulp and Paper,
Castanea Paper, American Aniline and the like. That's the list of BE branch
industries from the wye toward Mill Hall. You'll notice that Piper is not
listed there. 

The photo I saw in the Reading color steam book showed what looked to be a
coaling tower on the south side of the Buffalo line east of the BE branch
wye connections.

Both the REA building and the passenger station were within the wye. In the
later years of the PRR the REA building was used as the passenger station.
It still stands.

So the order of things on the Buffalo line from north to south (Buffalo
line directions) BE Branch west connection, Henderson Street grade
crossing, REA building and Passenger station within the wye, BE branch east
connection and Hanna Street grade crossing, Lock Haven tower, yard and
Piper on north side of tracks.

How was that?

Drew R. McGhee
Altoona, PA

>Where was this engine facility in relation to the junction with the BE 
>Branch? East/South of it, or to the West/North of it? Was it north or 
>south of the Buffalo line?
>
>I saw Piper Aircraft in the CT1000, along the BE branch. If it is next to 
>the loco facility and on the BE branch, that might place things like this:
>
>    loco  \ Buffalo line to Buffalo
>       fac \
> piper      \
>    air     /\
>___________/_S\__________Buffalo line to Williamsport
>BE branch
>
>The "S" within the wye would indicate the passenger station.
>
>Does the above seem correct?


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From: Mark D Bej <bejm@eeg.ccf.org>
Subject: [PRR] ASCII art (was: Williamsport)
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 15:48:54 EDT
Content-Length: 933

> ASCII art never comes across well to me but Piper was not on the BE branch.

Drew et al.,
for ASCII art to look ok, you have to use a fixed-width font.

Most 'modern' email readers -- i.e., within the last 2-3 years, including
most browsers -- use a proportional font like Times New Roman or Arial.
This makes the text look nice, but ASCII art looks lousy, 'cause one line
of text won't necessarily match up with the next.

Switch to Courier.  Should work.  This is in the "Settings..." or
"Preferences..." somewhere.  Look around, it should be there.

--
Mark

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Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 15:57:24 -0400
From: Drew McGhee <drm6@psu.edu>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Lock Haven Loco Shop
Content-Length: 3890

Jerry and the group,

I'll put my notes where needed.

>
>Travelling west on the Buffalo line, the 1945 CT1000E reads:
>
>MP 63.7 Piper Aircraft
>MP 64.2 Station and Junction with Bald Eagle Branch, east connection
>MP 64.4 Junction with Bald Eagle Branch, west connection
>MP 64.5 Pennsylvania Electric

This is correct. Only the Buffalo line stuff. No BE branch stuff other than
its connections to the Buffalo line listed above. By the way, the PA
Electric was a coal gasification plant. There was a gas holder and coal
trestle there. The two buildings still stand as well as a portion of the
coal trestle. PP&L used the one building that's on Bald Eagle Street as
offices until they built their service center in McElhattan in the mid 70s.
>
>Travelling west on the Buffalo line, the 1923 CT1000E reads:
>
>MP 63.3 Siding and "RK" Tower

Lock Haven Tower

>MP 63.7 Madison Textile

This is the silk mill that Piper moved in to after they were burned out of
Bradford, PA. Lock Haven was not where Piper started. The silk mill portion
of Piper's Lock Haven complex is still standing. It's the red brick section
that had the word Piper on the roof. For those who saw the back side of
that big red sign from the four lane US Rt 220 and wondered why you saw the
back side. The sign faced old US Rt 220 which went from Lock Haven to
Dunnstown.

>MP 64.2 Station and Junction with Bald Eagle Branch

This would be the same as the east connection above. Looks like the west
connection, that would complete the wye, isn't in yet.

>MP 64.5 Loch Haven Electric

As above. It was on the north side of the tracks and about 2 to 3 blocks away.

>MP 64.5 Clinton Ice and Coal

I believe it was on the same spur to PA Electric. When I was younger, used
to get Clinton Cola there. I don't know why they called it a cola. It was
clear and tasted like 7-Up. They sold block ice and dry ice. It is gone.
Torn down to build the Jay Street Lock Haven Exit of US Rt 220.

>MP 64.7 Claster's

Claster's cinder block plant. There was alot of Claster stuff between here
and Bellefonte Ave.

>MP 64.9 Bellefonte Avenue

Location of old passenger Station on the south side of track east  of
Bellefonte Ave grade crossing.


>MP 64.9 Engine House

Roundhouse was south side of tracks. Still standing. 

>MP 65.0 Freight 

This can be a bit confusing. You would have passed the freight house before
the roundhouse. However, the track to get to the freight house was past the
connection to the roundhouse. The freight station burned down in a
spectacular overnight fire in the 70s. This was where the car scales were
and where the "Energy of Man" exibit tran was set up. A bit more northbound
(toward Renovo) would have been the 4th street foot bridge.

>
>It would seem that the wye connection with the Bald Eagle was not present 
>in 1923, but was added before 1945. It is also obvious that the Loch 
>Haven Electric was purchased by Pennsylvania Electric. The engine house 
>was west of the Bald Eagle junction as indicated in 1923, but was removed 
>prior to 1945. Piper Aircraft "may" occupy the facility previously home 
>to Madison Textile.

The BE branch stuff is in the Tyrone Division section of the 1923 CT 1000.
It existed but as I mentioned above, the wye must not have been completed
at that time. The wye was probably put in to turn the steam engines when
the turntable/engine house at Bellefonte Ave was removed from service.


Drew R. McGhee
Altoona, PA

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From: "Bill Knepper" <boxcar46@nfdc.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] X-23 Donations (OR LACK OF !)
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 15:11:50 -0500
Content-Length: 2233

To all:
MY LOUSY .02 CENTS WORTH !
        What's happened out there ?  Everybody wanted to rebuild an ( X-23
)  and made such a big fuss over were it should come from, and were it
should go to after restoration. And now  Mark, has to hand over a pitiful
response to a group that claims to be "BIG and Powerful".  A group that
wants to change the PRRT&HS,  Take  over the web page, have access to all
the collection, and more.  But we can't even raise a couple of thousand
dollars, to restore the project we came up with!   SAD ISN'T IT !
        Typical of most organizations there is 90% of the people that push
for something, 60% say they will help, 20% pitch in and  10% do the
job........and in this case it's not that good !
This doesn't seam to be a Lines West or Lines East problem........it's a
PRR fan problem...
        Mark, thanks for your efforts to make this group stand tall. And
thanks to all of those who gave, no matter how much, a donation is a
donation.  To all the others .......well just more hot air !

(Waiting for the flames, but don't light the match if you don't want to get
burnt !)

Bill Knepper

 
>To : Mark D. Bej <bejm@eeg.ccf.org>
> To: prr-talk@dsop.com
> Subject: [PRR] X-23 Donations
> Date: Friday, June 19, 1998 2:05 PM
> 
> 
> The trickle of donations has come to an end.  I will send them, with a
cover
> letter, this weekend.
> 
> Guys, this is not a terribly good showing.  We have 15 donations max,
maybe
> 20.
> 
> --
> Mark
> 
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Subject: Re: [PRR] Lock Haven Loco Shop
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 98 16:49:55 -0400
From: Jerry <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 827

On 6/19/98 3:57 PM, Drew McGhee (drm6@psu.edu) wrote:

>>MP 64.9 Engine House
>
>Roundhouse was south side of tracks. Still standing. 

Anyone have any photos? 

Any other info...how many stalls? How big of a coal tower and how many 
tracks? Etc.

-----------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
-----------------------------------------------


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From: <PRRMAN@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 19:55:25 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway Limited
Content-Length: 2224

In a message dated 98-06-18 13:01:47 EDT, tktrower@earthlink.net writes:

 the PRR Broadway Limited, was anybody fortunate enough to ride her?? What was
it like? 
>>I never got to ride as a passenger, although had 3 head-end rides on
No. 28 in GG-1's, and saw the train many times.  I did get inside
it at New York several times.  The elegance was real.  But you can
find that kind of elegance on trains today, if you look hard enough and
pay enough (American Orient Express, for example).

What you can't find today is the total priority which the PRR gave to
getting that train through -- fast, on time, and without any slowdowns,
etc., which would be observable to the passengers.  If there were
problems, the PRR wouldn't hesitate to stop everything else on
the division in order to keep Nos. 28 and 29 moving.  If some
mechanical problem arose with an engine or car before leaving
NY or Chicago, there was a replacement  ready, and it got
drilled into the consist very quickly, in order to protect the on-time
departure.  Mechanics were waiting for the train at crew-change
points (whether or not any problems had been reported) And if
such a problem did arise, the mechanical department people
responsible got a tongue-lashing from the superintendent.

Old PRR men told me that any block operator, train dispatcher,
gang foreman, or train crewman who delayed this train would be
given one day off, without pay, for every minute of delay.  As a
result, you really could set your watch by the Broadway.

Things started to "loosen up" a bit after most of the train's clientele
switched to jets, but the Broadway was given special status all
the way up until its 1967 discontinuance.  Looking back now, I
wish they had retired the name with the train.

Being 15 I am an Amtrak era person.
>>You missed quite a bit!

Rich Copeland

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From: "Greg Stone" <gas@fastinet.net>
Subject: [PRR] X-23 lack of donations
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 17:52:02 -0700
Content-Length: 3424

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What bugs me is that so many so called PRR historians "want" but won't =
"give". They want to be able to see nice restorations and accurate =
models. They want articles and photos and memorabilia.They will spend =
money,sometimes a lot of money,for models etc. which will of course HAVE =
TO BE accurate. Most if not all have lots of money tied up in there PRR =
collections whatever their niche. But ask someone to give back a small =
donation so the PRR heritage can be preserved for others and themselves =
and you can't even get a lousy $15 bucks. Now if you are on a fixed =
income and squeaking by in your retirement and can't afford $15 for your =
own piece of PRR memorabilia OK.  Some guys probably gave before as my =
friends out here did at the convention. As for the rest of you, you owe =
an apologee to the future generations of PRR fans and should stop =
calling yourself historians!
=20
Greg Stone







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<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>What bugs me is that so many so =
called PRR=20
historians &quot;want&quot; but won't &quot;give&quot;. They want to be =
able to=20
see nice restorations and accurate models. They want articles and photos =
and=20
memorabilia.They will spend money,sometimes a lot of money,for models =
etc. which=20
will of course HAVE TO BE accurate. Most if not all have lots of money =
tied up=20
in there PRR collections whatever their niche. But ask someone to give =
back a=20
small donation so the PRR heritage can be preserved for others and =
themselves=20
and you can't even get a lousy $15 bucks. Now if you are on a fixed =
income and=20
squeaking by in your retirement and can't afford $15 for your own piece =
of PRR=20
memorabilia OK.&nbsp; Some guys probably gave before as my friends out =
here did=20
at the convention. As for the rest of you, you owe an apologee to the =
future=20
generations of PRR fans and should stop calling yourself=20
historians!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Greg Stone</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 22:00:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: bubbles@visi.net
Subject: [PRR] Donations
Content-Length: 4102


  Hello to the Group...We'll i thought this might come up...
  Yep there are some who have'nt(or can't ,or will not) send in a donation
  to save the X-23...We all have a reason one or the other...good and bad.

  Well first of all i am going to make something personal and private
  known right here....I am in a chapter 13 bankruptcy right now...
  yup...i'm broke...PCed....Jerry knows about it...now all know.
  And i STILL plan an sending in my share(25.00?)(lord knows when too) to
either 
  Mark if he will still forward it on or to the PRRT&HS under our groups
  heading so the group gets credit for it...I still want to send my share
  even though i could use it myself. I would like to say here that if you can 
  spare even ten bucks...send it in...anything helps when it comes to saving
  and restoring equipment...I know i used to be a member of the Baltimore
  streetcar museum and they used to have a old farebox that was used for public
  donations that went toward restorations...this even though small at times
  bought paint,paint remover,hardware,light bulbs...even helped pay the
  museums electric bill. So anything helps.

  Now it may have been better if All had been asked to see who would have
  actually sent in a share or truely pledged first before actually gathering
  the funds so we would have had a better idea who would have actually
  sent it in and how much.

  One thing i have done even though i'm broke is talk to Joe Zappa
  (and its been a while so i'm not sure i remember this right)
  was since i am possibly getting some thing for what i help develope
  to donate a little to the N.C. Chapter (for their use)or to the National
(this   toward getting some of the documents taken care of that they need
help with)
  even if in the future i can't send anything in i still might be able
  to help in a way.I still need to talk with him more about it.

  Also...If you can't send money...get involved...help clean or paint or
  repair stations and equipment...(ok ,ok..i don't right now...but then again
  i'm 200 miles south of Washington.D.C. and that makes it a little hard
  for me to attend meetings and such. But when i do get up North i try to
  go to sites and see what is happening...i haven't been able to get up to
  New Freedom,Pa. in two years now...or York(since i'm a N.C. modeler)
  But i have kept in touch with Chuck Blardone(for a Keystone article)
  and Ivan Frantz(from the N.C. chapter and finding out whats up with the
  N.C. chapter)

  also since i live near the former Little Creek operation i have been
  documenting what was and is there for others to use. or for modeling info.
  I try to do what i can.

  What i'm trying to say is either try to help,in one way or another or
  be honest and say you can't.
  I can under stand the colledge guy whos money is tight,or a older fellow
  who lives on a fixed income or maybe the guy who has bills and kids
  out the kazoo like me....
  But if you got bucks to spend on the latest Life-like or Bowser...
  remember that even half of what you would spend on it would help
  to save some thing from the Pennsy.... gee even the price of a bowser
  N-5 caboose is a little help.
  Where would the model makers be able to check things if there was no
  stations left or equipment left or even documents.
  Remember how close E-7(EP-20) 5901 came to being scrapped?
  Its now the only EMD E-7 left of hundreds.

  Models can wait in my opinion...the real thing comes first.
  We already have lost too much.
  We'll my two cents worth for what its worth...

                                            Til Later
                                            Hank Mummert


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Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 20:04:20 -0500
From: Ben Kroger <bkroger@earthlink.net>
Subject: [PRR] PRR: Rivarossi GG-1
Content-Length: 762

A recent vacation to Pennsylvania and the RR Museum of PA has me
wondering what I ever really liked about railroads here in Texas, and
I'd like to get into modelling the PRR.  I'd like to start with a GG-1,
and am interested in the consensus opinion on Rivarossi's effort.  Any
input would be appreciated.

Regards,

Ben Kroger
Secretary, Southwest Railroad Historical Society (home of GG-1 4903)

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From: "Liberty" <liberty@infonline.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR locomotives for sale
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 02:49:25 -0400
Content-Length: 1764

Don,

The item you're looking for is from Alco Products, 312 Hunter Forge Rd.,
Macungie, PA. 18062

I don't know of any web site for them.  

Hope this helps !

Joe Zappa

----------
> From: Donald E. Harper, Jr. <harperd@tamug.tamu.edu>
> To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
> Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR locomotives for sale
> Date: Thursday, June 18, 1998 5:46 PM
> 
> > 1) Bowser L1s, frame partially assembled, with detail kit and Alco
(ex-Helix 
> > humper) repowering
> 
> This reminded me that I had been meaning to ask, and kept forgetting, if
someone
> could direct me to a web page, address, or phone number, of the company
that 
> makes these Helix motors.  
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Don Harper
> Texas A&M Marine Lab
> 5007 Avenue U
> Galveston, TX  77551-5926
> 409/740-4540;  fax 409/740-5002
> harperd@tamug.tamu.edu
> 
> 
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Subject: [PRR] X23 Donations
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 98 08:30:20 -0400
From: Jerry <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1244

I'll be one of the first to admit that I "pledged" but didn't give. I had 
all good intentions, but things are tight with an infant in the house and 
all. I thought I could squeeze it out, but I had some computer damage 
during an electical storm. Equipment needed replaced. I had everything on 
a UPS (Uninterruptable Power Supply) which includes a lifetime $25K 
insurance policy. Bottom line: They (APC) are paying for the replacement 
equipment, but I had to front the money until everything clears.

My point is, we may have good intentions, but sometimes valid barriers do 
come up, as in my case. Perhaps I'll donate later, or perhaps on a later 
project.

-----------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
-----------------------------------------------


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From: "Greg Stone" <gas@fastinet.net>
Subject: [PRR] Donations
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 08:19:20 -0700
Content-Length: 5030

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A co-worker of mine, who is a phillipino who loves his country and just =
recently became and american citizen, told me he delayed becomming an =
american citizen because he thought if he was older he couldn't be =
drafted into the military. I asked didn't he want to fight for the =
country he wanted to become his home. He said he would fight to defend =
the USA but didn't want to go fight for some other country the US =
military might send him. My question to him was, "You mean like the =
amercians including my uncles did for the phillipines?" I hoped he would =
rethink his position.
My intentions are the same when I wrote to those of you who did not =
donate to the preservation fund for the X-23. This is not "my" project. =
It is a project of the PRRT&HS and of  this WEB site, I supposed was =
made up of  lovers of the PRR.  I just believe that everyone who claims =
to love the PRR should be willing to help protect what is left of her =
for yourself and future generations. Think about it. Everytime you see a =
piece of preserved equipment it is because someone made an effort for =
you and themselves.
Modelers don't you realize that the best most accurate models are made =
from preserved diagrams but also when the real thing still exist and =
someone can crawl over it and measure it. I want my children to see what =
it was like years ago for real not just in photos. A picture just isn't =
the same as walking up to the real thing. Anyone who has been to the =
museum and strassburg railroad knows what I mean. Even if you aren't =
into freight equipment try to help if you can. And yes I will donate to =
someone elses particular interest of preservation even if it isn't =
necessarily my favorite because if we won't stick together on these =
things than what is left of the PRR will go down in flames literally.-- =
Greg Stone

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>A co-worker of mine, who is a =
phillipino who=20
loves his country and just recently became and american citizen, told me =
he=20
delayed becomming an american citizen because he thought if he was older =
he=20
couldn't be drafted into the military. I asked didn't he want to fight =
for the=20
country he wanted to become his home. He said he would fight to defend =
the USA=20
but didn't want to go fight for some other country the US military might =
send=20
him. My question to him was, &quot;You mean like the amercians including =
my=20
uncles did for the phillipines?&quot; I hoped he would rethink his=20
position.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>My intentions are the same when I =
wrote to those=20
of you who did not donate to the preservation fund for the X-23. This is =
not=20
&quot;my&quot; project. It is a project of the PRRT&amp;HS and of&nbsp; =
this WEB=20
site, I supposed was made up of&nbsp; lovers of the PRR.&nbsp; I just =
believe=20
that everyone who claims to love the PRR should be willing to help =
protect what=20
is left of her for yourself and future generations. Think about it. =
Everytime=20
you see a piece of preserved equipment it is because someone made an =
effort for=20
you and themselves.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Modelers don't you realize that the =
best most=20
accurate models are made from preserved diagrams but also when the real =
thing=20
still exist and someone can crawl over it and measure it. I want my =
children to=20
see what it was like years ago for real not just in photos. A picture =
just isn't=20
the same as walking up to the real thing. Anyone who has been to the =
museum and=20
strassburg railroad knows what I mean. Even if you aren't into freight =
equipment=20
try to help if you can. And yes I will donate to someone elses =
particular=20
interest of preservation even if it isn't necessarily my favorite =
because if we=20
won't stick together on these things than what is left of the PRR will =
go down=20
in flames literally.-- Greg Stone</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Greg Stone" <gas@fastinet.net>
Subject: [PRR] decapod
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 09:12:47 -0700
Content-Length: 1793

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Does anyone the status and condition of the Isa 2-10-0 decapod that was =
part of the PRR collection? Last I spoke with the curator of the museum =
at strassburg they were trying to swap the nickel plate berkshire for =
her. Can anyone provide an update? Are there any recent photos of her? =
Does anyone know if she is visible to the public and where exactly?

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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Does anyone the status and condition =
of the Isa=20
2-10-0 decapod that was part of the PRR collection? Last I spoke with =
the=20
curator of the museum at strassburg they were trying to swap the nickel =
plate=20
berkshire for her. Can anyone provide an update? Are there any recent =
photos of=20
her? Does anyone know if she is visible to the public and where=20
exactly?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: <TVPedro@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 12:38:49 EDT
Subject: [PRR] Re-Donations
Content-Length: 899

The story about the Philippino, regarding the request for donations reminds me
of the 
Pullman custom of using only Philippine Porters on cars which were a
combination
of sleeping accommodations and a beverage service lounge. This was the
practice right up to Amtrak.  I remember returning from FL just before Amtrak
took over, I asked the Porter in my car the location of another car on the
train and he said "it is one car ahead of the Philippino car up front".  The
ways of Pullman company are just history today from an other era.

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From: <Paintloco@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 14:56:49 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] decapod
Content-Length: 1144

The I1s is located in Hamburg, NY just across the tracks from the x-Erie RR
station located about 2 blocks west of Camp Road . The depot is now a hobby
shop. The engine is available for inspection and photos. By late summer the
fireman's side is obscured by weeds and other unergowth. It looks sad. The
90f82 tender is missing its dog house. The firebox, as of last summer, is
missing it's sheathing. 
AM light is best for photography.
A block or two south along the tracks is a PRR Gla hopper in MOW yellow. Its
on the east side of the tracks on a siding. Other pieces of that society's
collection are located there.
I have found her to be a good reference to use when super detailing Bowser
hippos. If you visit her take lots of film.

Don Murphy
 The Renovo Dispatcher


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Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 18:19:17 -1000
From: "Eric J. Minton" <eminton@hula.net>
Subject: [PRR] Toronto PRR or other RR action
Content-Length: 551

Aloha,

My Union is sending me to Toronto July 13 - 25th. Does anyone have any
suggestions re. Rail activity I may be able to do in addition to the work,
Sessions.

Thanks in Advance
Eric

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Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 07:09:46 -0700
From: Bill Daniels <bdaniels@rtd.com>
Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 06/21/98
Content-Length: 1856


--------------2D1A8351BDE05FCE8F038494
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> The story about the Philippino, regarding the request for donations reminds me
> of the
> Pullman custom of using only Philippine Porters on cars which were a
> combination
> of sleeping accommodations and a beverage service lounge.
>
The Pullman Company wasn't the only American institution to practice
discrimination against Phillipinos (as well as African-Americans)...up
until 20 or so years ago, the ONLY place that a Phillipino was allowed
serve in the U.S. Navy was as a steward (officer's servant). This was
also mirrored in the other services as well.

--------------2D1A8351BDE05FCE8F038494
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
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<HTML>

<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<PRE>The story about the Philippino, regarding the request for donations reminds me
of the&nbsp;
Pullman custom of using only Philippine Porters on cars which were a
combination
of sleeping accommodations and a beverage service lounge.</PRE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
The Pullman Company wasn't the only American institution to practice discrimination
against Phillipinos (as well as African-Americans)...up until 20 or so
years ago, the ONLY place that a Phillipino was allowed serve in the U.S.
Navy was as a steward (officer's servant). This was also mirrored in the
other services as well.&nbsp;</HTML>

--------------2D1A8351BDE05FCE8F038494--


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Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 10:50:47 -0400
From: Jerry Shickler <geshick@velocity.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] decapod
Content-Length: 1455

Paintloco@aol.com wrote:
> 
> The I1s is located in Hamburg, NY just across the tracks from the x-Erie RR
> station located about 2 blocks west of Camp Road . The depot is now a hobby
> shop. The engine is available for inspection and photos. By late summer the
> fireman's side is obscured by weeds and other unergowth. It looks sad. The
> 90f82 tender is missing its dog house. The firebox, as of last summer, is
> missing it's sheathing.
> AM light is best for photography.
> A block or two south along the tracks is a PRR Gla hopper in MOW yellow. Its
> on the east side of the tracks on a siding. Other pieces of that society's
> collection are located there.
> I have found her to be a good reference to use when super detailing Bowser
> hippos. If you visit her take lots of film.
> 
> Don Murphy
>  The Renovo Dispatcher
> 

I just saw it yesterday. I didn't have much time to look it over, but
did take a few pictures. I'll post them when I get them back & get them
scanned. Now have to use up the rest of the roll...
-- 
Jerry Shickler
e-mail: geshick@velocity.net

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From: cschlund@sfsu.edu
Date:          Sun, 21 Jun 1998 10:45:02 
Subject: [PRR] Decapod on the web
Content-Length: 1648

Hi Greg & list members,

Greg asked:

> Does anyone the status and condition of the Isa 2-10-0 decapod that was =
> part of the PRR collection? Last I spoke with the curator of the museum =
> at strassburg they were trying to swap the nickel plate berkshire for =
> her. Can anyone provide an update? Are there any recent photos of her? =
> Does anyone know if she is visible to the public and where exactly?

Some info and some pics of the loco exist on the web. Check out

http://members.aol.com/rtsiller/PRRinWNY.html

(Hope I typed that correctly!)

  Till later...  Claus

PS: Greg, any chance you could turn off the HTML feature in your
mailer and use plain ASCII? Some of us use mail clients which do not handle
HTML in mail messages very well... I don't know much about the
mailer you use (appears to be Microsoft Outlook Express), but
perhaps others could help you with this if you don't know where
to find the setting...


-------------------------***{}***-------------------------

Claus Schlund (Shop Foreman, Bernal Heights Car & Foundry)
Modeling steam-era PRR in N scale - San Francisco, CA

Interested in BHC&F products? Check out our no-longer-one-and-only N scale
passenger car kit at http://userwww.sfsu.edu/~cschlund/models/pullman.gif



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From: "Greg Stone" <gas@fastinet.net>
Subject: [PRR] GL? covered hopper
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:28:43 -0700
Content-Length: 570

A question from a firend out here in California:
Does anyone know what happened to the GL? hopper that was converted  to a
covered  hopper  and sat on the siding at Mount Union into the late 1980s?
Greg Stone


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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:06:21 -0500
From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu>
Subject: [PRR] Re: Rivarossi GG-1
Content-Length: 3318

>A recent vacation to Pennsylvania and the RR Museum of PA has me
>wondering what I ever really liked about railroads here in Texas, and
>I'd like to get into modelling the PRR.  I'd like to start with a GG-1,
>and am interested in the consensus opinion on Rivarossi's effort.  Any
>input would be appreciated.

Ben,

I and several others on this list are serious "juice jockeys"...Now since
you didn't mention which scale you were interested in, I can comment on
both (as Rivarossi has the GG-1 available in both HO and N.  If you check
the archives of the list, you will see a reasonably detailed discussion of
the available HO plastic GG-1s, their origins and their failings.  Since I
model HO, I deal with these all the time <G>.  My preference is to add some
extra details such as wire hand rails, stirrup steps, and window grills.  I
have to repaint most of the commercial GG-1 models anyway as they are
trimmed in "dulux gold" and not "bronze gold" and I need the latter for my
era.  If you are going to model PRR electrified, you need to consider all
of the other "motors" which the PRR used.  Unfortunately, that means brass
right now, but Liberty Models (and supposedly yours truely - if I ever find
the time) are working to fix that!  If you haven't already purchased a
copy, I urge you to find two books which are essential to PRR electrified
fans - "Under the Catenary" and "PRR Electric Years".  The variety of
"motors" on the PRR was amazing and is really a lot of fun to model.

The choices in N-scale are much less plentiful, and modeling the
electrified terrritories is quite daunting.  There is of course a very
limited amount of brass, the aforementioned GG-1 and GHQ, known for the L-1
conversion, was marketing an FF-1 snapper conversion (don't know if it
really got made)

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and
Director, Nucleic Acid Services
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/
********************************************************************************
If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup
trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number
of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great
literary works in Braille.
********************************************************************************
Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com
       _               _
      / \             / \
  ____\_/_____________\_/____   ____________________________________
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Subject: [PRR] More Mill Hall Questions
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 98 11:18:16 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1355

More questions about Mill Hall, Pa., on the Bald Eagle Branch:

I've gotten a good drawing of the NYC interchange at Mill Hall -- thanks 
to Rich, Drew, and Mike for all the good info!

The NYC interchange was at MP50, on the north side of the BE Branch. The 
NYC then ducked under the BE east of that location.

There were also Mill Hall industrial sidings east of the interchange. Did 
the NYC do its duckunder between the interchange at MP50 and these 
sidings, or did it duckunder between the Mill Hall sidings and the 
beginning of the Lock Haven plant?

Can anyone provide any further details of the industries at Mill Hall, 
other than the names contained within the CT1000?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html


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Subject: [PRR] Lock Haven to Williamsport
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 98 11:25:12 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 981

The Harrisburg <-> Renovo line, between Lock Haven and Williamsport: Was 
it double-tracked?

The 1945 CT1000 shows a passing siding at LANE. If the line was 
double-tracked, was this passing siding in the center and accessible from 
both mains?

Can anyone point me to photos of the towers at Lock Haven and Lane?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html


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Subject: [PRR] Timonium Shows
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 98 11:38:09 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1007

I didn't realize that this past weekend there was a "Great Scale Model 
Train Show" at Timonium. I mistakenly had it on the "Timetable" at KC as 
July 20-21 (a Monday and Tuesday). Oops!

I have the next one as Oct. 17-18. Anyone know if this is still correct?

Does anyone have a web address for the promoter that might keep current 
info?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html


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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:36:58 -0400
From: mxb13@psu.edu (Michael Bezilla)
Subject: Re: [PRR] More Mill Hall Questions
Content-Length: 1351

>More questions about Mill Hall, Pa., on the Bald Eagle Branch:
<snip>
>There were also Mill Hall industrial sidings east of the interchange. Did
>the NYC do its duckunder between the interchange at MP50 and these
>sidings, or did it duckunder between the Mill Hall sidings and the
>beginning of the Lock Haven plant?

The duckunder was just west of Mill Hall, the sidings were on the east side
of town. (am I correct Drew?)  But the point I would make is that if you
visit the duckunder today, aside from wondering how they ever kept the
water out of it, is how the nyc fit steam locomotives of any size through
it. And yet they did--the L1 and L2 4-8-2's for example, and I believe (tho
I am not sure) the larger L3 and L4 classes--yet an M1 seemingly would
never fit thru this tiny space. Jerry you should check this out in person,
maybe ride the Bellefonte Historical RR dinner train that operates monthly
from Bellefonte to Lock Haven. A good way to see the PRR.

Mike



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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 12:07:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: alcoman <alcoman@net.bluemoon.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Decapod on the web
Content-Length: 3399

Another piece of the PRR that survives in WNY (well now in Southern
Ontario) is PCHR 6101 (dont remember the PRR number of it) Alco C-425 that
was on the NY and Lake Erie for a while.  It now lives and operates on the
Port Colbourn Harbor Railway.  

A picture of it in NYLE colors can be found on my website at
http://alcoman.railfan.net/nyle03.jpg  Plus the NYLE still has PC 5067 on
the property as a parts unit (but it is going downhill fast)

I know someone from the list gave me all the numbers that the units were
previously.  Plus in the yard at Gowanda are 3 CR cabooses.  I will get
the numbers on Saturday 6/27/98 and post them to the list.  I am sure at
least 2 of em were PRR's.  And they also have a hopper car that was
modified for MOW service that still sports it's PC number.  I will do some
further investigation on that as well.


On Sun, 21 Jun 1998 cschlund@sfsu.edu wrote:

> Hi Greg & list members,
> 
> Greg asked:
> 
> > Does anyone the status and condition of the Isa 2-10-0 decapod that was =
> > part of the PRR collection? Last I spoke with the curator of the museum =
> > at strassburg they were trying to swap the nickel plate berkshire for =
> > her. Can anyone provide an update? Are there any recent photos of her? =
> > Does anyone know if she is visible to the public and where exactly?
> 
> Some info and some pics of the loco exist on the web. Check out
> 
> http://members.aol.com/rtsiller/PRRinWNY.html
> 
> (Hope I typed that correctly!)
> 
>   Till later...  Claus
> 
> PS: Greg, any chance you could turn off the HTML feature in your
> mailer and use plain ASCII? Some of us use mail clients which do not handle
> HTML in mail messages very well... I don't know much about the
> mailer you use (appears to be Microsoft Outlook Express), but
> perhaps others could help you with this if you don't know where
> to find the setting...
> 
> 
> -------------------------***{}***-------------------------
> 
> Claus Schlund (Shop Foreman, Bernal Heights Car & Foundry)
> Modeling steam-era PRR in N scale - San Francisco, CA
> 
> Interested in BHC&F products? Check out our no-longer-one-and-only N scale
> passenger car kit at http://userwww.sfsu.edu/~cschlund/models/pullman.gif
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
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> -------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: "Stephen R. Sejda" <srsejda@jaguarsystems.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Timonium Shows
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 12:20:39 -0400
Content-Length: 1687

Hi Jerry,

The Great Scale Model train Show web site is: 

http://www.gsmts.com/

Happy Shopping!

Steve
----------
> From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
> To: PRR-Talk <prr-talk@dsop.com>
> Subject: [PRR] Timonium Shows
> Date: Monday, June 22, 1998 11:38 AM
> 
> I didn't realize that this past weekend there was a "Great Scale Model 
> Train Show" at Timonium. I mistakenly had it on the "Timetable" at KC as 
> July 20-21 (a Monday and Tuesday). Oops!
> 
> I have the next one as Oct. 17-18. Anyone know if this is still correct?
> 
> Does anyone have a web address for the promoter that might keep current 
> info?
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
> Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
> Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
> 
> Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
> http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html
> 
> 
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Subject: Re: [PRR] Timonium Shows
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 98 12:38:00 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 948

On 6/22/98 12:20 PM, Stephen R. Sejda (srsejda@jaguarsystems.com) wrote:

>The Great Scale Model train Show web site is: 
>
>http://www.gsmts.com/

The October date has indeed been changed. Unfortunately, the new dates 
are Oct. 3-4...the same weekend as RailFest '98 in Altoona!!!

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html


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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 98 12:50:32 EDT
From: <kkollar@PAMDT.ANG.AF.MIL>
Subject: [PRR] Sunbury Branch
Content-Length: 628

I need a quick response to this question.

Can someone confirm that line along the Susquehanna River from Sunbury  to 
Wilkes Barre, PA was called the Sunbury Branch.  Also would that be 
considered running North - South or East - West.  Thanks much.

Kris Kollar


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Subject: Re: [PRR] Sunbury Branch
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 98 14:03:23 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1807

On 6/22/98 12:50 PM, kkollar@PAMDT.ANG.AF.MIL (kkollar@PAMDT.ANG.AF.MIL) 
wrote:

>Can someone confirm that line along the Susquehanna River from Sunbury  to 
>Wilkes Barre, PA was called the Sunbury Branch.  

Can't give you a "for certain" answer....

>Also would that be 
>considered running North - South or East - West.  Thanks much.

Prior to the Pennsy's lease of the Northern Central Railway (circa 1913), 
the NCRy had trackage rights from the P&E over this stretch.

The NCRy ran north out of Baltimore, through York to Harrisburg, Pa., 
where it met and crossed the PRR main line. It proceeded north along the 
east shore of the Susquehanna River to Sunbury, where it proceeeded, with 
trackage rights on to Williamsport, Pa. At Williamsport it returned to 
its own trackage, later called the Elmira Branch, north to Elmira and on 
to Sodus Point, NY.

As far as the NCRy was concerned, this was travelling NORTH.

However, the PRR ran many trains via Harrisburg that travelled up this 
line with destinations to Erie, Pa., Buffalo, etc. I believe these were 
all referred to as WEST.

So, both are correct!


-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html


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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:01:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: alcoman <alcoman@net.bluemoon.net>
Subject: [PRR] Check out this guys site when you have time
Content-Length: 903

http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Cabana/3707/r009.html

It is an extremely detailed page dealing with the PRR written from an
English perspective

William J. Enser          Co-Network Administrator
                          Technical Support & Validations 
alcoman@bluemoon.net      net.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Online System
X2 & K56flex Access       www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network       
http://www.bluemoon.net   mud.bluemoon.net 4000 - MoonMUD
bbs.bluemoon.net          irc.bluemoon.net - ZUHnet Buffalo, NY IRC Server



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Subject: Re: [PRR] Check out this guys site when you have time 
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:42:06 -0400
From: Dennis Rockwell <dennis@bbn.com>
Content-Length: 651

On 22 Jun, alcoman wrote:

> http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Cabana/3707/r009.html
> 
> It is an extremely detailed page dealing with the PRR written from an
> English perspective

I wonder what book he got his text and pictures from -- all
of the articles date from 1935.

Dennis

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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 98 16:28:04 EDT
From: <kkollar@PAMDT.ANG.AF.MIL>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Sunbury Branch
Content-Length: 2480

Appreciate the response.  I wrote an article for MR and I needed the info 
for one of the photo captions.  The info went out in today's mail hence the 
desperate request for assistance.


Regards,

Kris Kollar
Hershey
-------------
Original Text
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>, on 6/22/98 2:03 PM:
On 6/22/98 12:50 PM, kkollar@PAMDT.ANG.AF.MIL (kkollar@PAMDT.ANG.AF.MIL) 
wrote:

>Can someone confirm that line along the Susquehanna River from Sunbury  to 
>Wilkes Barre, PA was called the Sunbury Branch.  

Can't give you a "for certain" answer....

>Also would that be 
>considered running North - South or East - West.  Thanks much.

Prior to the Pennsy's lease of the Northern Central Railway (circa 1913), 
the NCRy had trackage rights from the P&E over this stretch.

The NCRy ran north out of Baltimore, through York to Harrisburg, Pa., 
where it met and crossed the PRR main line. It proceeded north along the 
east shore of the Susquehanna River to Sunbury, where it proceeeded, with 
trackage rights on to Williamsport, Pa. At Williamsport it returned to 
its own trackage, later called the Elmira Branch, north to Elmira and on 
to Sodus Point, NY.

As far as the NCRy was concerned, this was travelling NORTH.

However, the PRR ran many trains via Harrisburg that travelled up this 
line with destinations to Erie, Pa., Buffalo, etc. I believe these were 
all referred to as WEST.

So, both are correct!


-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html


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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:40:30 -0400
From: Drew McGhee <drm6@psu.edu>
Subject: [PRR] PRR/NYC Mill Hall Interchange Error
Content-Length: 582

Greetings to the group,

I made an error in describing the PRR/NYC Interchange in Mill Hall. Will
post the corrected info tomorrow. Jerry, will pass along corrected sketch
tomorrow as well. 

Drew R. McGhee
Altoona, PA

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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:45:35 -0400
From: Drew McGhee <drm6@psu.edu>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Lock Haven to Williamsport
Content-Length: 1239

Jerry,

The quick answer is yes. It was double track with passing sidings till the
early 50s. From then on it was converted to single track with passing
sidings from the Sunbury end. It got as far as Lock Haven by the time of
the merger. If anyone has a track chart from Sunbury to Renovo, say, 1950
or late 40s, I would very much like to obtain a photocopy of it. The track
chart I have is 60s era, after most of the line was singled tracked to Lock
Haven.

Drew R. McGhee
Altoona, PA


At 11:25 AM 6/22/98 -0400, Jerry_Britton wrote:
>The Harrisburg <-> Renovo line, between Lock Haven and Williamsport: Was 
>it double-tracked?
>
>The 1945 CT1000 shows a passing siding at LANE. If the line was 
>double-tracked, was this passing siding in the center and accessible from 
>both mains?
>
>Can anyone point me to photos of the towers at Lock Haven and Lane?


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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 98 17:56:26 Central Daylight Time
From: Barry "PENNSY" Peltier <Barry.Peltier@gte.net>
Subject: [PRR] passenger train consists
Content-Length: 884

	
Pennsy folks,
Could anyone help me out regarding consists of trains on the Northern Central area, circa 1954-1957? What 
I'm particularly interested in are the night trains: Northern Exp and the Dominion. Official Guides of that era give 
sleeper and lounge designations, but nothing ,of course about the number of coachs and headend cars.
 I'd like to be able to cobble together some reasonably accurate trainss for the Sunbury-Williamsport-Lock 
Haven area, and any help would be appreciated.
Thanks, Barry Peltier


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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:11:21 -0700
Subject: [PRR] Cape Charles train shed and platform
From: staffsgtyork@juno.com
Content-Length: 1350

Greetings to the group,

	I'm trying to pin-point the date that the passenger platform and
train shed at Cape Charles, Virginia was torn down.  There are pictures
of the PRR's yard on the Delmarva Peninsula circa 1928 in my possesion. 
My photos from 1966 to present day show the car float, but nothing of the
various other structures.  According to RAILS ALONG THE CHESAPEAKE, rail
service south of Delmar ended in 1958 (p.140).
	Any yard plans between the '20s and the '50's are also sought to
aid in my layout planning.
	Info on consists for passenger service equipment on the Delmarva
Express, the Cavalier, and The Furlough from WW2 through early 1960's are
sought as well.
	Thanx to all takers.

Regards,

David W. "SGT" York

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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:02:05 -0400
From: Dan Cupper <cupper@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Sunbury Branch
Content-Length: 1002

kkollar@PAMDT.ANG.AF.MIL wrote:
> 
> I need a quick response to this question.
> 
> Can someone confirm that line along the Susquehanna River from Sunbury  to
> Wilkes Barre, PA was called the Sunbury Branch.  

Kris:

In the 1933 Record of Transportation Lines, it is identified as the
Wilkes-Barre Division Main Line. In 1946, it was still called the
Wilkes-Barre Division main line (from A.D. 80, list of stations).

In a 1950 Susquehanna Division (which didn't last long) ett, it is
called the Wilkes-Barre Branch.  That name stuck through the 1968 Penn
Central merger.

Dan



Dan Cupper
cupper@ibm.net
Proverbs 27:17

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From: <Hal6963@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 05:55:41 EDT
Subject: [PRR] No Mail?
Content-Length: 416

Monday is normally heavy mail day! What happened?

Harold

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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 22:23:39 -0400
From: Stephen Bartlett <sbartlet@capecod.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] passenger train consists
Content-Length: 2398

Barry,	
	This may give you partial help, from Peter Maiken's _Night Trains_. 
Anyone with the appropriate PRR Consist Book should have all the
information.

	Per the book, which referenced _The Official Guide..._, on a
hypothetical March, 1952, at midnight:
 No. 574, the Dominion Express, carried 
	8 Section-Lounge           \ 
	8 Section 5 Double Bedroom  >  Buffalo to Washington
	18 Roomette                /

	10 Section - 5 DBr        \  Buffalo to Philadelphia
	12 Section - Drawing Room /
   A diner and two Detroit-Washington sleepers from the Red Arrow were
added at Harrisburg.

	No. 575, the reverse Dominion, carried the above, plus a
	12S-DR car from Washington to Canandaigua, N. Y., which ran from 
Williamsport to Canandaigua in No. 595.
	He further states that the Dominion Express carried the Washington cars
for the Admiral (for Chicago) and the Penn Texas (for Houston), plus a
Philadelphia-Harrisburg Cafe-coach.

	From the same source, the Northern Express No. 581, carried
   	10 S- 3 DB Philadelphia to Erie
	8S-5 DB New York to Erie
	10S-3 DB Washington to Erie
	12S - DR New York to Emporium (Monday and Thursday)
	Cafe Coach Philadelphia to Erie
		
	The southbound equivalent was No. 580, The Southern Express
        10 S - 3 DB Erie to Philadelphia
	10 S - 3 DB Erie to Washington
	8 S - 5 DB Erie to New York
	10 S - 3 DB Williamsport to New York

Admittedly this does not include all coaches or head end cars, but is
what I have available to offer.

Steve Bartlett

Barry PENNSY Peltier wrote:


> 
> Pennsy folks,
> Could anyone help me out regarding consists of trains on the Northern Central area, circa 1954-1957? What
> I'm particularly interested in are the night trains: Northern Exp and the Dominion. Official Guides of that era give
> sleeper and lounge designations, but nothing ,of course about the number of coachs and headend cars.
>  I'd like to be able to cobble together some reasonably accurate trainss for the Sunbury-Williamsport-Lock
>


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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 08:43:58 -0400
From: Drew McGhee <drm6@psu.edu>
Subject: [PRR] PRR/NYC Mill Hall Interchange Correction
Content-Length: 1653

Greetings to the group,

My memory isn't what it used to be, though I don't think it ever really
was. The interchange was a two track affair but there wasn't a stub track.
According to a NYC 60s era track chart, the switch to the interchange off
of the PRR was a leading point switch for PRR trains heading toward Lock
Haven. The switch off of the NYC was trailing point for NYC trains heading
towards Mill Hall and Castanea. From their respective switches, the tracks
split into the two track interchange yard. The one interchange track was
1112 feet long and the other was 475 feet long. 

Something like this for the interchange but prior to the NYC ducking under
the PRR a bit to the east of this interchange.


________________________________________________NYC toward Mill Hall
                                                    /
                                                 /
                                             /  /
                                           /  /
                                         /  /
                                        /  /
                                        /
________________/______________________________PRR toward Lock haven


Sorry about the earlier, incorrect information.

Drew R. McGhee
Altoona, PA

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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:43:41 -0400
From: Drew McGhee <drm6@psu.edu>
Subject: Re: [PRR] More Mill Hall Questions
Content-Length: 3472

Greetings to Jerry and the group, 

The NYC ducked under the PRR just east of the interchange and prior to any
NYC or PRR sidings in Mill Hall. The first PRR siding was Clinton County
Fire Brick (from 1923 CT 1000). In more recent time this was Champion
Rebuilders. It's the plant in Mill Hall with the rusty white round water
tower. This plant still stands.

For the PRR, immediately after this CC Fire Brick plant, it crossed Water
Street and Fishing Creek. Next for the PRR was the Pennsylvania Ave grade
crossing and the sidings for the PRR station and G. Stover (coal and later
fuel oil distributer) and Contential Condensed Milk. The station and Stover
were on the north side of the tracks. The milk plant was on the south side.
The milk plant later became a Sylvania Plant. The Sylvania building no
longer exists. It was torn down sometime after 1972and the area is still
surounded by chain link fencing with barbed wire. My Mother and Grandmother
worked at the Mill Hall Sylvania plant. When they worked there in the 40s,
it made proximity fuses for artillery shells. The old PRR station still
stands. It is now an Agway store.

Next for the PRR was Mill Hall Clay products. It is still there, on the
south side of the old BE Branch, and still making terra cotta products. You
can see an arial photo of Mill Hall Clay Products at the following url
http://www.kcnet.org/Partners/milhalcl.gif  The old NYC tracks can be seen
in the upper portion of the photo. The shed like red sided buildings on the
middle left is the G. Stover site. It's still a fuel distributer but has a
new name, I believe Wolfe. The present interchange between the ld PRR and
NYC tracks is just out of the photo at the top. Top of the photo is heading
toward Lock Haven. Just out of the photo below would be the old Sylvania
plant site, PRR station and Pennsylvania Ave grade crossing. 

Additional details and history of Mill Hall Clay Products can be found at
http://www.kcnet.org/Partners/mhclay.htm  The NYC used to service Mill Hall
Clay products too. Mill Hall Clay products has an outlet store in
McElhattan. It is next to the gas station at the red light. ( In a million
years, I never thought I'd see a red light in McElhattan. Next it will be
parking meters!) They sell decroative flower pots.

That's it for Mill Hall proper. The old Harbison Walker plant, long gone,
was in Draketown. Draketown is between Mill Hall and the BE branch's
division post at POST. NyPenn/Castanea Paper/Hammermill was east of POST
and in Lock Haven. For a photo and some history of Hammermill try
http://www.kcnet.org/Partners/ip.htm

Drew R. McGhee
Altoona, PA

At 11:18 AM 6/22/98 -0400, Jerry_Britton wrote:
>There were also Mill Hall industrial sidings east of the interchange. Did 
>the NYC do its duckunder between the interchange at MP50 and these 
>sidings, or did it duckunder between the Mill Hall sidings and the 
>beginning of the Lock Haven plant?
>
>Can anyone provide any further details of the industries at Mill Hall, 
>other than the names contained within the CT1000?
>


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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:49:02 -0400
From: Drew McGhee <drm6@psu.edu>
Subject: Re: [PRR] More Mill Hall Questions
Content-Length: 1439

Greetings to the group,

Mike is correct on all of this especially how tight the duck under was. The
duck under is easily accessed from behind the Bald Eagle Nittany (BEN) High
School shop building. Be VERY careful and expect Conrail coal trains. They
are now runing on the old BE Branch and they run very fast! 

Drew R. McGhee
Altoona, PA


At 11:36 AM 6/22/98 -0400, Michael Bezilla wrote:
>The duckunder was just west of Mill Hall, the sidings were on the east side
>of town. (am I correct Drew?)  But the point I would make is that if you
>visit the duckunder today, aside from wondering how they ever kept the
>water out of it, is how the nyc fit steam locomotives of any size through
>it. And yet they did--the L1 and L2 4-8-2's for example, and I believe (tho
>I am not sure) the larger L3 and L4 classes--yet an M1 seemingly would
>never fit thru this tiny space. Jerry you should check this out in person,
>maybe ride the Bellefonte Historical RR dinner train that operates monthly
>from Bellefonte to Lock Haven. A good way to see the PRR.
>
>Mike


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From: <Hal6963@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:37:57 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] Sunbury Branch
Content-Length: 699

In a message dated 98-06-23 11:01:01 EDT, you write:

> > Can someone confirm that line along the Susquehanna River from Sunbury  to
>  > Wilkes Barre, PA was called the Sunbury Branch.  
>  
My 1919 ETT No. 18 identifies this as the Sunbury Division. So perhaps
sometime between 1919 and the early 1930s the name was changed.

Harold

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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:43:03 -0400
From: mxb13@psu.edu (Michael Bezilla)
Subject: Re: [PRR] More Mill Hall Questions
Content-Length: 552

Drew, thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge of the Bald Eagle
Branch-Mill Hall & Lock Haven areas with other list members. A very
interesting & informative look at PRR history.



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From: "tqpj6" <tqpj6@pty.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 17:15:05 -0500
Subject: [PRR] 
Content-Length: 500

First posting on this list hope it gets through.  Please help what is a
I1sa?  All so, anyone out their model the Renovo division?
Thanks MAC

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From: "jbreon" <jbreon@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] 
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:09:30 -0400
Content-Length: 1756

Hi MAC,

      Welcome aboard. Actually, I'm pretty new to this forum also, but have
read a lot of good PRR stuff here. I'm sure you'll get several replies to
this question. Here's mine:
      The PRR designated their 2-10-0 locomotives as the I1 class. The first
one was built in Juniata during December, 1916. They went on to built a
total of 598 of this class. According to Al Staufer's Pennsy Power (which I
consider a great reference) there were 109 I1s and 489 I1sa locomotives in
July, 1947. The small "s" represents a superheater and the "a" indicates a
further revision in 1930 of cylinder steam vents to increase the admission
of steam to the cylinders from 50% to 78% of the stroke. Hope this helps.

Jerry Breon
-----Original Message-----
From: tqpj6 <tqpj6@pty.com>
To: PRR-TALK <prr-talk@dsop.com>
Date: Tuesday, June 23, 1998 6:18 PM
Subject: [PRR]


>First posting on this list hope it gets through.  Please help what is a
>I1sa?  All so, anyone out their model the Renovo division?
>Thanks MAC
>
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 20:58:28 -0500
From: Ben Kroger <bkroger@earthlink.net>
Subject: [PRR] PRR whistles
Content-Length: 538

Does anyone have any .wav files of PRR whistles?  At one time there was
an FTP site with a number of whistles, horns and the sort, but it no
longer exists.

Regards,
Ben Kroger

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From: David Carey <dccareyd@ac1.co.ada.id.us>
Subject: [PRR] N8  Cabin Cars
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:15:12 -0600
Content-Length: 483

	Does anyone out there in radioland know the original regional
assignments of N8 cabin cars 478020  - 478219 ? Thank you. GDC

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Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:17:51 -1000
From: "Eric J. Minton" <eminton@hula.net>
Subject: [PRR] Information Help
Content-Length: 779

Aloha,

I am re-asking this question for a friend. I am surprised that after
several times of asking and various searches on the Web I haven't come
across anyone that knows about the Pullman car that was used by Cabel "Cab"
Calloway. He was the "HI-DE-HI-DE-HO" man. I have found lots of reference
to him, lots of reference to Pullman.  Anybody have  anything to LINK the
two or  another direction?

Thanks,
Eric

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Subject: [PRR] Mifflin & Centre County RR
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 98 20:25:59 -0400
From: Jerry <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1914

According to the "Centennial History of the PRR", the Mifflin & Centre 
County RR was chartered in the 1860s to build a line from the PRR main at 
Lewistown to a point at or near Milesburg, Pa.

The line was started but foundered after only 12 miles of track were 
built, to a point at Milroy, Pa. The line was operated by the PRR.

Portions of this line remain or are still in evidence. The junction at 
Lewistown is in place, for industrial service in the Lewistown area. 
North of the town, the line had ducked under Rt 322 and had beautiful 
white stone ballast. The track was taken up in the 1980s. Part of the 
roadbed is still visible in the Milroy area.

Does anyone know what the proposed route was?

Based on it's heading to Milroy, my guess is that it was destined to 
follow Rt. 322's path through Seven Mountains...which would have required 
very steep grades and perhaps even a Horseshoe Curve of its own! Beyond 
that mountain crossing, it probably would have headed west, curved north 
around Mt. Nittany, through Bellefonte, and on to Milesburg. 

Note that this latter path was later taken by the Lewisburg and some such 
branch, later part of the Bellefonte Branch.

Can anyone guess any other route for this proposed line?

Were there any known mineral deposits along the route...coal, ore, etc.?

-----------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
-----------------------------------------------


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!!NEXT MESSAGE!!
From: <Hal6963@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 22:09:27 EDT
Subject: [PRR] The Purple Emperor and the Refiller
Content-Length: 791

Just picked up PRR 60 named freights on the eBay Auction, should be
interesting reading. See description below

"The Purple Emperor and the Refiller plus 58 others are all there. I'm 
not sure that a PR flak alive today would have the depth of 
understanding of his railroad's markets or the imagination to dream up 
10 names no less 60 names! "

Will post up more info when it arrives.

Harold
Modeling the Middle Division

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Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 22:16:50 -0400
From: Dan Cupper <cupper@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Mifflin & Centre County RR
Content-Length: 1261

Greetings to Jerry and the list:


The line was abandoned between Milroy and Reedsville after the 1972
Agnes flood, though it was possibly out of service before then. The
section from Reedsville to Yeagertown was abandoned about the time you
say, although that portion was operated as a light-density line under
USRA/FRA/state subsidy auspices (by Conrail) for a short time. The line
is still in place as far as Yeagertown, just beyond Burnham, and is
operated as part of the Juniata Valley Railroad, one of the Dick Robey
family of short lines. Power is an ex-Pittsburg & Shawmut SW9 and
service frequency on that specific route is 2-3 times a week (JVRR also
services the stub of the former Lewistown-Selinsgrove route, and, west
of town and via access over the Conrail main line, the Mifflin County
Industrial Park siding).


Dan 



Dan Cupper
cupper@ibm.net
2 Corinthians 5:17

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Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 21:29:29 -0500
From: Andy Cich <ajc5150@net66.com>
Subject: [PRR] New HO P2K Locos
Content-Length: 1046

I just purchased an ABBA set of the PA-1's, and thought with P2Ks next
loco being a GP20, I wouldn't "have to buy" any locos for a while.

I just saw a posting on rec.models.railroad that the PA-1 3rd release
will feature PRR in 5 stripe tuscan.  Two A-units were mentioned, but no
B-units.

If that isn't enough, there also was a mention of the next loco being a
GP-7, Phase II.  Like the GP-9's, there will be 3 PRR road numbers
available.

It was mentioned that the PA-1's would be available in September and the
GP-7's in October.  So start saving now.  Given P2K's ability to meet
their schedules, I hope we see both of these locos by the end of the
year.



Andy C.

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From: <CENTGA@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 22:44:46 EDT
Subject: [PRR] EBT
Content-Length: 393

Is the EBT still running excursions?

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Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 23:28:14 -0700
From: Mark Timmerman <mltimmerman@pol.net>
Subject: [PRR] Dubuque  billboard reefers
Content-Length: 2773

Does anyone have documemtation of Dubuque Packing Company billboard
reefers on the PRR?  If so, when where and which prototypes: Can anyone
provide prototype verification or make corrections and additions to the
following HO model list of Dubuque reefers?

Life Like
     40' wood car made in plastic with yellow-tan sides, brown ends and
black roof
     black outline of state of Iowa with diagonal red DUBUQUE through
center
     Rd# URTX 4750 in blue windowed box labeled Reefer Car Dub Stock
#08534
     Was this ever made by Varney? Included in whose train sets? (Often
found at flea tables)
Ye Olde Huff-N-Puff
     40' wood car/wood kit prepainted sides in yellow with red DUBUQUE
through red Iowa       outline
     Black URTX 1353. remainder unpainted.  Item #13 (or R13?) Tan box.
*Below models feature the company emblem Fleur-de-Lis (Lilly) in red
with Dubuque thru center
Athearn
     40' steel, white sides with brown top & ends URTX 63627 Red FDL Blk
DBQ
     first in red box, later in blue box?
     Later included in Cox train sets with steel wheels?
     50'steel, all white exterior, URTX 63321 Red FDL Blk DBQ
BevBel (Athearn molds)
     40' steel, Lt. grey with black ends & top URTX 63627, Blk FDL Blu
DBQ stock #2337
                                                   
63632                        #2337-1
     from 1996 or 7, Bev-Bel label on blue Athearn box
Train Miniatures?
     40'steel grey roof & sides with Blk ends.  URTX 63851  Blk FDL, Blu
DBQ
     Road # is continuous with WAlther's 63850
Walther's Meat Reefer Series 1996 (Former train Miniatures) 3 road #'s 
     40' steel White w/Blk ends & top URTX 63850 Stock #932-2554 Red FDL
Blk DBQ
                                           63853        932-2554
                                           63859        932-2554
     Multi-pictorial box and red ends, 1996
Intermountain Railway Co. 1996 12 road #'s
     40' steel, white with Blk ends & top. red FDL, Blu DBQ Road # 63396
is item 40525-05
     order of road #'s
63047,63182,63229,63353,63396,63432,63575,63628,63704,63761, 63817,
     63983.  Class R-40-23 red & white box
Sunshine
     Resin kit, not seen
JMC Hobby (Chicago) Empire Builder Series ~1971
     Not seen
     Orange& White Box Serial Number approx JMC 1024
Key DBQ=Dubuque, FDL=Fleur-de-Lis, Blk=black, Rd=Red, Wht=White
Brn=Brown Blu=Blue, Gry=grey

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Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 23:26:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Derrick J Brashear <shadow@DEMENTIA.ORG>
Subject: [PRR] HO P2K PA/PB 3rd run
Content-Length: 522

According to info posted to rec.models.railroad by One Railroad Avenue:
Pennsylvania (#5752A, #5753A) tuscan red, five stripe
Pennsylvania (#5750B, #5752B)

-D


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Subject: Re: [PRR] HO P2K PA/PB 3rd run
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 98 06:20:26 -0400
From: Jerry <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 924

On 6/24/98 11:26 PM, Derrick J Brashear (shadow@DEMENTIA.ORG) wrote:

>According to info posted to rec.models.railroad by One Railroad Avenue:
>Pennsylvania (#5752A, #5753A) tuscan red, five stripe
>Pennsylvania (#5750B, #5752B)

D., please double-check, I believe this run is in N scale. Let us know if 
definitely HO. This would be news to me.

-----------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
-----------------------------------------------


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Subject: [PRR] Bellefonte Branch
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 98 09:54:01 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 926

For a train coming off the Bald Eagle Branch and entering the Bellefonte 
Branch at Milesburg and continuing into Bellefonte...at Bellefonte there 
was a junction with the Bellefonte Central, on the right side. Was this a 
trailing point of facing point junction?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html


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Subject: [PRR] Lewistown
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 98 09:54:36 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 739

Was Lewistown, Pa., generally, a regular stop for all the Blue Ribbon 
trains?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html


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Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:47:50 -0400
From: Dan Cupper <cupper@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Bellefonte Branch
Content-Length: 883

Jerry_Britton wrote:
> 
> For a train coming off the Bald Eagle Branch and entering the Bellefonte Branch at Milesburg and continuing into Bellefonte...at Bellefonte there was a junction with the Bellefonte Central, on the right side. Was this a trailing point of facing point junction?

Greetings to Jerry and the list:

It was, and is, a wye. (Since there's no wye at Milesburg, it's where
the 1361 turned on its Altoona-Tyrone-Bellefonte jaunts in 1987-88.)


Dan



Dan Cupper
cupper@ibm.net
Galatians 2:20

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Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:53:27 -0400
From: Dan Cupper <cupper@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Lewistown
Content-Length: 805

Jerry_Britton wrote:
> 
> Was Lewistown, Pa., generally, a regular stop for all the Blue Ribbon
> trains?


Greetings to Jerry and the list:




No, only in an unusual circumstance. However, it did have plenty of
trains -- even in the bad old days of Penn Central, right up until
Amtrak, Lewistown patrons could board No. 50, 54, 24, 22, 25, 33, 23,
and 31 -- eight trains.


Dan




Dan Cupper
cupper@ibm.net
Galatians 2:20

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Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:07:56 -0400
From: mxb13@psu.edu (Michael Bezilla)
Subject: Re: [PRR] Bellefonte Branch
Content-Length: 1341

>Jerry_Britton wrote:
>>
>> For a train coming off the Bald Eagle Branch and entering the Bellefonte
>>Branch at Milesburg and continuing into Bellefonte...at Bellefonte there
>>was a junction with the Bellefonte Central, on the right side. Was this a
>>trailing point of facing point junction?
>
>Greetings to Jerry and the list:
>
>It was, and is, a wye. (Since there's no wye at Milesburg, it's where
>the 1361 turned on its Altoona-Tyrone-Bellefonte jaunts in 1987-88.)
>
>
>Dan

Dan, the wye is at the engine pit or "oil house" as it's called locally.
The wye does not connect with the BFC. The BFC switch is between the wye
and Sunnyside yard, it was and is a facing point switch. Incidentally,
althought they did turn the K4 there on the wye in 87-88, the PRR generally
avoided this, turning the usual 2-8-0's there that were used for local
swtching, and also the 4-4-2's (and occasional 4-6-0's) that would used on
the L&T trains from Sunbury.

Mike



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Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 13:18:04 -0400
From: Dan Cupper <cupper@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Bellefonte Branch
Content-Length: 1179

Michael Bezilla wrote:
 
> Dan, the wye is at the engine pit or "oil house" as it's called locally. The wye does not connect with the BFC. The BFC switch is between the wye and Sunnyside yard, it was and is a facing point switch.


Ahh, right, Mike, forgot about that. Thanks for the correction.



>>Incidentally, although they did turn the K4 there on the wye in 87-88, the PRR generally avoided this, turning the usual 2-8-0's there that were used for local switching, and also the 4-4-2's (and occasional 4-6-0's) that would be used on the L&T trains from Sunbury.>>>
 
Yes, in fact, the PRR emp tt as I recall specifically prohibited K4s;
though it was ok, I think, for K2-K3 engines. The 1361 sneaked around
there without derailing several times, but at least once, it went on the
ground.

Dan Cupper

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Subject: [PRR] P2K PA's in Tuscan
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 98 15:32:30 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1151

I still find no evidence of HO scale PA's by Life Like Proto 2000 in 
Tuscan.

One Railroad Avenue, the purported source via a rec.model.railroads post, 
doesn't even show it on their web site's newsletter, the Telegraph. They 
always have in the past.

Walthers also does not show it in the "Products Announced" for June, May, 
or April.

The GP20's in HO, and the PA's in N (in Tuscan) are shown.

I believe the post to the newsgroup was in err. If not, I'll bear the 
flames!

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html


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Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 17:15:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: vagelk@usaor.net (Vagel C. Keller)
Subject: Re: [PRR] EBT
Content-Length: 1261

At 10:44 PM 6/24/98 EDT, CENTGA@aol.com wrote:

>Is the EBT still running excursions?
>

Yes, they are!!!  Opening day was June 6.  Trains depart Orbisonia Station
at 11 AM, 1 PM, and 3 PM each Sat and Sun thru mid October.

Vagel Keller                           
Pittsburgh, PA                
vagelk@usaor.net                    
THE INDUSTRIAL HERITAGE HOMEPAGE   
http://www.usaor.net/users/vagelk    
                                     _||_||_
                    ||  ||  ||  ||    || ||\ 
                    ||  ||  ||  ||    ||_||\\
                 /\_||__||__||__||_/\ \\ // \\ 
              o x o x o x o . . .    \/   \  \\
             o      _____             |   |  / \ 
           >][_n_n_|HH] /====___  ________ ________
           (_______|__]_[_______]_|\____/| |\____/|                      
          _/o OOOO  o`   oo   oo  'oo  oo' 'oo  oo'    
   
   


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From: Jim Clay <jclay@paonline.com>
Subject: [PRR] E7 Horns
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:31:41 -0400
Content-Length: 1760

Sometime ago I posted a query to the list aksing what type of horn would be 
found on an E7 in 1950.  The reason for the query was to determine which 
digital sound option offered by SoundTraxx would be appropriate for such an 
engine.

I didn't get any responses from the list so I looked fo other sources to 
answer this question.  In my search for an expert I located Roger Granlund 
who is assembling a history of PRR whistles.  Roger response to my query is 
posted below for members of the list who might be interested.



The e7's were produced from 2/45-4/49 (Second Diesel Spotters Guide) and
the 3-chime horns were not available until about 1949.  Thus, the E7's
would have originally had the Leslie 200 or WABCO E2 single chime horns.
The same book shows a Kansas City Southern E7 with 2 Leslie 200's (one
facing forward, one facing to the rear).

The book Heart of the Pennsylvania Railroad, The Main Line: Philadelphia to
Pittsburgh, by S. McGonigal shows E7 #5846 in July 1952 with a single
Leslie 200 mounted on the right front.

Looking at your photograph again, it also appears to be a Leslie 200.  The
WABCO is the closest sound to the Leslie 200.  WABCO also made some 2 and 3 
chime horns and the WABCO on the Soundtraxx sampler sounds more like   2 or 
3 chime horn than the single chime E2.

Jim Clay
Attempting to model the Middle Division circa 1950


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Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 19:09:08 -0700
Subject: [PRR] P2K products announcement....
From: staffsgtyork@juno.com
Content-Length: 1300

To the group,


This fax came into my shop's (Pro Custom Hobbies) fax machine yesterday. 
New releases are as follows:

PA/ PB 3rd release.....(September release)
#21684  PRR rd# 5752A  TUSCAN 5 stripe
#21685  PRR rd# 5753A         "          "      "

#21686  PRR rd# 5750B        "          "       "       B Unit
#21687  PRR rd# 5752B        "          "       "       B Unit


GP 7 phase II 1st release  (October release date)

#23008  PRR rd# 8510  with dyn. brake  brunswick green
#23044  PRR rd# 8512     "       "         "               "             
"

2nd release 50' single door box cars with late '50's/ early '60's schemes
due in August.

Regards,

SGT. York

_____________________________________________________________________
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From: "jbreon" <jbreon@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] E7 Horns
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 20:47:57 -0400
Content-Length: 2488

Jim,

       Thanks for posting the information you found re: PRR E7 air horns.
Information like this is exactly why I subscribe to this list.

Jerry Breon
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Clay <jclay@paonline.com>
To: 'prr-talk@dsop.com' <prr-talk@dsop.com>
Date: Thursday, June 25, 1998 6:37 PM
Subject: [PRR] E7 Horns


>Sometime ago I posted a query to the list aksing what type of horn would be
>found on an E7 in 1950.  The reason for the query was to determine which
>digital sound option offered by SoundTraxx would be appropriate for such an
>engine.
>
>I didn't get any responses from the list so I looked fo other sources to
>answer this question.  In my search for an expert I located Roger Granlund
>who is assembling a history of PRR whistles.  Roger response to my query is
>posted below for members of the list who might be interested.
>
>
>
>The e7's were produced from 2/45-4/49 (Second Diesel Spotters Guide) and
>the 3-chime horns were not available until about 1949.  Thus, the E7's
>would have originally had the Leslie 200 or WABCO E2 single chime horns.
>The same book shows a Kansas City Southern E7 with 2 Leslie 200's (one
>facing forward, one facing to the rear).
>
>The book Heart of the Pennsylvania Railroad, The Main Line: Philadelphia to
>Pittsburgh, by S. McGonigal shows E7 #5846 in July 1952 with a single
>Leslie 200 mounted on the right front.
>
>Looking at your photograph again, it also appears to be a Leslie 200.  The
>WABCO is the closest sound to the Leslie 200.  WABCO also made some 2 and 3
>chime horns and the WABCO on the Soundtraxx sampler sounds more like   2 or
>3 chime horn than the single chime E2.
>
>Jim Clay
>Attempting to model the Middle Division circa 1950
>
>
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From: "tqpj6" <tqpj6@pty.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 23:26:02 -0500
Subject: [PRR] 
Content-Length: 544

Anyone know what the last steam and first diesel were for the
northern/southern express.  Im also trying to find a photo copy of the
trackage in and around Erie circa 1948.
Thanks Mac.

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Subject: Re: [PRR] P2K products announcement....
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 98 06:17:57 -0400
From: Jerry <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1066

On 6/25/98 10:09 PM, staffsgtyork@juno.com (staffsgtyork@juno.com) wrote:

>This fax came into my shop's (Pro Custom Hobbies) fax machine yesterday. 
>New releases are as follows:
>
>PA/ PB 3rd release.....(September release)
>#21684  PRR rd# 5752A  TUSCAN 5 stripe
>#21685  PRR rd# 5753A         "          "      "
>
>#21686  PRR rd# 5750B        "          "       "       B Unit
>#21687  PRR rd# 5752B        "          "       "       B Unit

Okay, D., my butt's been flamed!!!

-----------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
-----------------------------------------------


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From: cschlund@sfsu.edu
Date:          Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:57:47 
Subject: [PRR] GLe at Mt. Union
Content-Length: 1949

To gas@fastinet.net,PRR-Talk@dsop.com

I was delaying my reply on this item, hoping someone with more knowledge
would reply. As it seems nobody has done so, I will give it a try.

Several days back, Greg asked about the GL-subclass hopper formerly
at Mt. Union, PA. Here is what I've got.

The car was apparently a class GLe - formerly class GLb, then reclassed
GLe when rebuilt as a early covered hopper. An article discussing the
GLe class with photos of this Mt. Union car appeared in RMC 02/85 pg82
with photos, drawings, and text.

Now, I made a trip out to Mt. Union this last May, on one of the days
during the PRRT&HS convention. I went specifically to
photograph the ex-BAR 36-foot single-sheathed box cars that are still
out there. Also in Mt Union you will find the remains of the East Broad Top
fleet rusting away into oblivion. If you've never seen dual-gauge track,
and live out East, Mt Union is the place to go, remember this is where the
(narrow-gauge) EBT interchanged with the PRR.

I walked the entire area, but sadly there
was no sign of the GLe that I could find. So it is unclear
if the car even still exists at all. If I had to guess,
it has probably had a meeting with the scrappers torch.

  -  Claus



-------------------------***{}***-------------------------

Claus Schlund (Shop Foreman, Bernal Heights Car & Foundry)
Modeling steam-era PRR in N scale - San Francisco, CA

Interested in BHC&F products? Check out our no-longer-one-and-only N scale
passenger car kit at http://userwww.sfsu.edu/~cschlund/models/pullman.gif



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!!NEXT MESSAGE!!
From: DZJN21A@prodigy.com (MR CHARLES J CHANDLER II)
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:27:16, -0500
Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Electrics
Content-Length: 1391

Hi to all on the list, I've been mainly a listener since joining the 
list and  enjoy all of the information received  about the Pennsy. 
This info helps me in my modeling of this very unique railroad. 
Presently, I've gotten bit by the electric bug and have been trying 
to get different classes of "motors" under the catenary on my pike. I 
can't afford brass($700-$1500  is just too much) and have been 
searching for other ways to do this. I would like to  exchange 
information with other modelers in this area - (successes & failures) 
so that the average guy doesn't have to take out a 2nd mortgage to 
have something other than a GG1 running under the "wires." I have 
just completed an  MP54- "Bride & Groom" set  and am working on  a E-
2b set and a P-5A (streamlined). All of these are based on plastic 
models"cross-kitted" and found at train shows and hobby shops. I 
believe other classes can be presented with some thought and 
ingenuity. Am I crazy? Anybody else out there just as crazy?   
Charlie C.  

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Subject: [PRR] TAN: Listmaster goes AWOL!!!
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 98 15:30:12 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1335

Your Listmaster of "PRR-Talk", "Conrail-Talk", "PRR2000", and "PRRMO", as 
well as Webmaster of "Keystone Crossings" is going on vacation beginning 
tonite (6/26) and returning on 7/4.

The system is self-recovering in most situations...except when power is 
lost and the UPS fully discarges. In that scenario, a manual restart is 
required. But hey, we never get bad electrical storms do we? (Yet another 
one is passing over me as I right this!)

So nows your chance to flame the heck out of me...I won't be able to 
defend myself for a week!

It's been a pleasure serving ya'll, as these are among the most polite 
lists I've been on...see you in a week.  8-)

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html


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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 12:28:10 -0700
From: Roger Elliott <relliott@mail.telis.org>
Subject: [PRR] For Sale HO P2K E8
Content-Length: 619

I have for sale a LifeLike HO E8 painted in tuscan with a single yellow
strip and a large herald.  Only two years old and seldom run.  Has Kadee
couplers installed.  For sale to
highest bidder.  E-mail me directly please.
Thanks,
Roger Elliott
Arcata, CA


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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:53:40 -0700
Subject: [PRR] Juice jockeys et all.....
From: staffsgtyork@juno.com
Content-Length: 1887

Charlie C wrote:

 I 
can't afford brass($700-$1500  is just too much) and have been 
searching for other ways to do this. I would like to  exchange 
information with other modelers in this area - (successes & failures) 
so that the average guy doesn't have to take out a 2nd mortgage to 
have something other than a GG1 running under the "wires." I have 
just completed an  MP54- "Bride & Groom" set  and am working on  a E-
2b set and a P-5A (streamlined). All of these are based on plastic 
models"cross-kitted" and found at train shows and hobby shops. I 
believe other classes can be presented with some thought and 
ingenuity. Am I crazy? Anybody else out there just as crazy?   
Charlie C.  

NO CHARLIE, YOU AIN'T CRAZY.  HAD A JUICE JOCKEY COME IN MY STORE TO BUY
A MOTOR TO REPOWER HIS ALCO BRASS E33 (THAT IS ALCO BRASS MODELS OF THE
6OS & 70S).  YOU CAN GET 'EM FOR AROUND $200 IF I'M CORRECT.  SHOULD BE
EASY TO BUILD A RESIN MODEL WITH ATHEARN OR COMPARABLE TRUCKS.  THIS
CUSTOMER IS SUPPOSED TO BRING IN THE E33 AND AN E44 TO SEE IF WE CAN
SCRATCH BUILD ONE USING THE MODEL AND PLANS TOGETHER FOR DIMENSIONS. 
ANYONE ELSE CRAZY ENOUGH FOR THAT?  OF COURSE, AFTER I BUILD ONE FOR HIM,
SOME ONE WILL MAKE A KIT BEFORE THE PAINT HAS DRIED.

SGT YORK

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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!!NEXT MESSAGE!!
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:10:45 -0500
From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Electrics
Content-Length: 2143

>just completed an  MP54- "Bride & Groom" set  and am working on  a E-
>2b set and a P-5A (streamlined). All of these are based on plastic
>models"cross-kitted" and found at train shows and hobby shops.

Very cool!  Please, tell us more!  Feel free to post the details right here
- I would like to know all about these projects.  For example, with your
P5a, are you modeling 4770, or a riveted body?  Where do you get drivers?
How did you set up the drive train?

>I believe other classes can be presented with some thought and
>ingenuity. Am I crazy? Anybody else out there just as crazy?

Sure you're crazy, but in a pleasant way!

Happy rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and
Director, Nucleic Acid Services
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/
********************************************************************************
If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup
trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number
of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great
literary works in Braille.
********************************************************************************
Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com
       _               _
      / \             / \
  ____\_/_____________\_/____   ____________________________________
 |- _______/ O     \_______ -| | __  __  __  __  __  __  __  __  __ |
 | /      PENNSYLVANIA     \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
 |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________|
 | O--O   \0   0   0/   O--O |   0-0-0                        0-0-0  



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!!NEXT MESSAGE!!
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 98 15:37:21 Central Daylight Time
From: Barry "PENNSY" Peltier <Barry.Peltier@gte.net>
Subject: [PRR] new models
Content-Length: 1041

folks,	
Seems a while back I heard mention of some new models from Bowser: a Pennsy flat and a gon(I hope a G22).   
Has anyone heard further on this?

Also,Mark Timmerman was making inquiry about Dubuque reefers. It may call for a bit of patience (I work 
kinda slowly), but I think I may be able to track down some info on this, at least to the point of whether the 
prototypes for the cars mentioned are approprite for the paint schemes in question. The only one of the cars I 
have myself is an orange Train Min. car that came in an assorted 3-pack, and I beleive that model is based on a 
RI car. But then, who can resist a neat reefer?
 
Thanks, guys.

Barry Peltier

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From: "Richard F. Makse" <maxrail@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] TAN: Listmaster goes AWOL!!!
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:49:00 -0400
Content-Length: 671

To all:

Thank goodness he's gone.

I thought he was going to start another one of those dreaded Mill Hall or
Bellefonte threads. He should be made to sit in a comfy chair in Lock Haven.

Reading about that stuff is almost like the Spanish Inquisition...

Enjoy your week, Jerry!

Dick Makse







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From: "Terry Link" <trlink@netcom.ca>
Subject: Re: [PRR] new models
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 18:47:41 -0400
Content-Length: 892

-----Original Message-----
From: Barry PENNSY Peltier <Barry.Peltier@gte.net>


>folks,
>Seems a while back I heard mention of some new models from Bowser: a Pennsy
flat and a gon(I hope a G22).
>Has anyone heard further on this?
>

Bowser has both the flat and gondola on their web site - including photos of
sample models.  August delivery quoted.

http://www.bowser-trains.com/

or go directly to the new products page:
http://www.bowser-trains.com/New%20HO.htm

Terry Link
Bramalea, Ontario
TRLINK@netcom.ca



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!!NEXT MESSAGE!!
From: <Hal6963@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:00:28 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] new models
Content-Length: 518

In a message dated 98-06-26 19:06:15 EDT, you write:

> Has anyone heard further on this?

Also see ad in August RMC.

Harold
Modeling the Middle Division

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!!NEXT MESSAGE!!
Subject: Re: [PRR] TAN: Listmaster goes AWOL!!!
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 98 21:11:34 -0400
From: Jerry <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1122

On 6/26/98 4:49 PM, Richard F. Makse (maxrail@worldnet.att.net) wrote:

>Thank goodness he's gone.

(Pythian accent): Oye didn't leave yet!  ;-)
>
>I thought he was going to start another one of those dreaded Mill Hall or
>Bellefonte threads. He should be made to sit in a comfy chair in Lock Haven.

Oh, no, not the Comfy Chair!
>
>Reading about that stuff is almost like the Spanish Inquisition...

Knew I could count on you guys!
>
>Enjoy your week, Jerry!

Thanks...anyone know if I'll get headaches from "PRR-Talk" withdrawal?


-----------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
-----------------------------------------------


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!!NEXT MESSAGE!!
Subject: [PRR] eBay -- Rockville Bridge
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 98 21:19:30 -0400
From: Jerry <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1986

Okay, so I haven't left town yet...

Just posted on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=18977469

65 Original 6-1/2X 4-1/2 photos from glass negatives, by the contractor 
of the famous Pennsylvania Railroad Rockville bridge. In the original 
photo album by H. S. Kerbaugh of Philadelphia.These mint [ no 
duplicates] photographs are outstanding in detail and subject. They show 
the old bridge with steam passenger trains going by,The contractor's 
shoe fly bridge and the "new bridge" under construction. All maner of 
detail of the massive wood works needed for the building of the stone 
piers. This a very rare collection Every shot is a work of art.Add $10 
post and insurance US only. $150 reserve. Serious bidders only please 

Initial bid is to start at $150, but the reserve is higher.


WOWEEEE!!!!!!!!

What do you say we do a group bid and go for it? I'll be away, so I can't 
manage the bidding, but I'm good for $20.

Here's my thought: If we win, I'll scan all 65 photos and supply hi-res 
files to all those who partipate (on ISO-9660 format CD-ROM). As for the 
originals, we can then either split them among ourselves, share them 
among ourselves, or....make a "cyber chapter" donation to the 
PRRT&HS...now that would make a splash!

Someone, please take the lead on this. This IS a worthwhile project! 
These should not be allowed to go!

-----------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
-----------------------------------------------


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!!NEXT MESSAGE!!
Subject: [PRR] RE: eBay ROCKVILLE auction
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 98 21:25:13 -0400
From: Jerry <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 834

Amending my previous commitment to the Rockville Bridge construction 
photos, I'll go up to $50 to secure them in a group purchase...as long as 
everyone pays an equal share.

Again, would someone please follow up on some sort of group bid while I 
am away?

-----------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
-----------------------------------------------


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From: "Larry and Phyllis Morgan" <lpmorgan@iquest.net>
Subject: RE: [PRR] eBay -- Rockville Bridge
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:41:27 -0400
Content-Length: 2631

Put me down for $20 also.
I also have a 35 mm negative and slide scanner.

Larry Morgan

-----Original Message-----
From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Jerry
Sent: Friday, June 26, 1998 8:20 PM
To: PRR-Talk
Subject: [PRR] eBay -- Rockville Bridge


Okay, so I haven't left town yet...

Just posted on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=18977469

65 Original 6-1/2X 4-1/2 photos from glass negatives, by the contractor 
of the famous Pennsylvania Railroad Rockville bridge. In the original 
photo album by H. S. Kerbaugh of Philadelphia.These mint [ no 
duplicates] photographs are outstanding in detail and subject. They show 
the old bridge with steam passenger trains going by,The contractor's 
shoe fly bridge and the "new bridge" under construction. All maner of 
detail of the massive wood works needed for the building of the stone 
piers. This a very rare collection Every shot is a work of art.Add $10 
post and insurance US only. $150 reserve. Serious bidders only please 

Initial bid is to start at $150, but the reserve is higher.


WOWEEEE!!!!!!!!

What do you say we do a group bid and go for it? I'll be away, so I can't 
manage the bidding, but I'm good for $20.

Here's my thought: If we win, I'll scan all 65 photos and supply hi-res 
files to all those who partipate (on ISO-9660 format CD-ROM). As for the 
originals, we can then either split them among ourselves, share them 
among ourselves, or....make a "cyber chapter" donation to the 
PRRT&HS...now that would make a splash!

Someone, please take the lead on this. This IS a worthwhile project! 
These should not be allowed to go!

-----------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
-----------------------------------------------


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!!NEXT MESSAGE!!
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:41:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Derrick J Brashear <shadow@DEMENTIA.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: eBay ROCKVILLE auction
Content-Length: 925

>  Amending my previous commitment to the Rockville Bridge construction 
>  photos, I'll go up to $50 to secure them in a group purchase...as long as 
>  everyone pays an equal share.

Who is this "everyone"? I'm willing to put in whatever my cut ends up being if
it happens, but we didn't have much success the last time we tried this.
Someone figured out that that car would cost $15*number of subscribers to
transport, and someone else noted we probably had starving students in our
midst and suggested twice that... what did we end up with? Mark?

-D



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!!NEXT MESSAGE!!
From: "Greg Stone" <gas@fastinet.net>
Subject: [PRR] rockville bridge
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:32:12 -0700
Content-Length: 1220

I have just placed a bid for the photo's. The reserve is $150.00. My
intention is to get these to the PRRTHS archives one way or another to the
best of my ability. If you guys want to help I'll take whatever help I can
get. There is only six days left. Make a firm commitment. Let me know your
individual contribution limit. If I need help I will try to calculate it so
as many can contribute evenly as possible. This would be so each individual
will have an equal share. The photos if you decide to help will eventually
all end up PRRTHS propertly. Before donating them we can each have copies
made. This would be an additional cost after the purchase cost. If I end up
in this alone and still secure them they will still eventually end at the
PRRTHS archives. This is not a selfish interest. Let me know your
thoughts----Greg Stone GAS@fastinet.net


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From: DZJN21A@prodigy.com (MR CHARLES J CHANDLER II)
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 02:10:00, -0500
Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Electrics
Content-Length: 1817

Hi everyone, As noted earlier, I have been working on building 
different classes of Pennsy electrics in HO scale, by modifying 
products I find available. The MP54 is based on the LifeLike 
heavyweight coach with various modifications -port hole windows, 
headlights & pantograph on roof ect. I used a Bachman doodlebug to 
power it ( very smooth & quiet) with a  Bachman F7A power truck and 
one drive shaft. Equalized trucks from the early 1950's rebuild here 
in Wilm. DE are represented by using modified AHM C-Liner units.   
The E-2b is based on the FA2 from LifeLike. Major modification is in 
roof area and removing detail from sides. If doing another, I would 
just replace the sides with plain styrene and add the very little 
details needed. Pantographs  with insulators are now available 
separately from IHC. P5a is being made from an old Tyco GG1? (other 
makes can be used) Shell is cut in half and shortened. Yes, my first 
version will be the all welded body, but I am toying with adding thin 
brass sheets embossed with rivets. I would like to use the power 
trucks from the GG1 but the wheels are too small and too close 
together. Presently, I am looking at pacific steam engine wheels ( 
they seem to be the correct size) with plastic spokes for easier 
removal of the counter weights. Well, thats where  I am now. I think 
part of the fun is searching for the solutions. Anybody else modeling 
electrics?  Charlie C.

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From: "Larry and Phyllis Morgan" <lpmorgan@iquest.net>
Subject: RE: [PRR] rockville bridge
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:41:47 -0400
Content-Length: 2503

Greg at all:

I said I will contribute $20.00, but that is with the restriction we scan
scan the picutres and make them available ONLINE.
I am okay with the PRRT&HS having the originals, but since I live in
Indiana,
I would never be able to see the pictures unless the were in the KEYSTONE.
Yes, I am a PRRT&HS member, but I cannot afford to come to the conventions.
Judging by the reported politics and hositility to all things CYBER,
I am not sure I would want to.

I may want to print them for my display wall.
If they are ONLINE or if High Level Scans are on one of Jerry's CD's,
I should be able to do that, although I would love to be able to
do my own scanning.

That is My Viewpoint.
Larry Morgan

-----Original Message-----
From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Greg
Stone
Sent: Friday, June 26, 1998 11:32 PM
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] rockville bridge


I have just placed a bid for the photo's. The reserve is $150.00. My
intention is to get these to the PRRTHS archives one way or another to the
best of my ability. If you guys want to help I'll take whatever help I can
get. There is only six days left. Make a firm commitment. Let me know your
individual contribution limit. If I need help I will try to calculate it so
as many can contribute evenly as possible. This would be so each individual
will have an equal share. The photos if you decide to help will eventually
all end up PRRTHS propertly. Before donating them we can each have copies
made. This would be an additional cost after the purchase cost. If I end up
in this alone and still secure them they will still eventually end at the
PRRTHS archives. This is not a selfish interest. Let me know your
thoughts----Greg Stone GAS@fastinet.net


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!!NEXT MESSAGE!!
From: "Greg Stone" <gas@fastinet.net>
Subject: [PRR] rockville bridge 
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:02:02 -0700
Content-Length: 1628

This is not going to be easy to make this fair and equitable. First off, if
I can get them on my own I will try to make scans available to all who
offered to help out. I will do this at cost in whatever manner is easiest
and cheapest and acceptable to those who offer to help. If I am not able to
get them on my own I will attempt to include those who are offering in a
equitable manner. My primary goal is to get them so that they are available
to PRR ethusiast in some form, secondly to altimately have them preserved
i.e. the society.
     A thought has crossed my mind to have them published and use the
proceeds to fund a restoration project or the like. With the bridge comming
up on its' centennial birthday possibly this could be a good time for such a
publication for even non-PRR enthusiast. Proceeds as I said could go to a
PRR restoration project to be decided on by those involved. This is just a
thought!!! I welcome feedback. I fear saying to much about this idea as it
is just a thought. I don't want this to become a debate because the need is
first to get the photos for altimate preservation. If the idea I mentioned
turns you off let me know. You can send  your thoughts directly to me at
GAS@fastinet.net if you wish.  GREG STONE



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From: "Stephen R. Sejda" <srsejda@jaguarsystems.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy GL & GLA Hoppers
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:07:09 -0400
Content-Length: 1800

Hi Harold & the Group,

I'm in the same boat with Harold. In 1952 PRR had 25,469 GLa hoppers on the
roster. I need to buy a bunch of these to mix with my H21 fleet. This was a
recent topic of discussion amongst many of my friends at the Lancaster
convention.

Given the recent success of the X29 I think we, as a group, should heavily
lobby Red Caboose to produce this car in HO. They have proven themselves as
a company willing to produce _affordable_, highly accurate, super-detailed
prototype models and I think their suggestion box is a good place to start.
(They'll even get the freight car red paint right.)

Here's their address:

Red Caboose
P.O. Box 2490
Longmont, CO 80502

Tell 'em how many you need.  

Thanks for listening.

Steve Sejda

----------
> From: Hal6963@aol.com
> To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
> Subject: [PRR] Pennsy GL & GLA Hoppers
> Date: Saturday, June 13, 1998 8:52 AM
> 
> Does anyony other than Westerfield manufacture this car? Need to build 30
to
> 40 cars.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Harold
> Modeling the Middle Division
> 
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From: <CENTGA@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:29:01 EDT
Subject: [PRR] X-29's in REA Paint
Content-Length: 786

I was wondering if anyone could tell me how late the latest run of Red Caboose
X-29's were in passenger service. I'm trying to focus on the year 1957.  Were
there still alot of these cars in this paint scheme in service on PRR
passenger trains?  What about the steam and signal lines?   Were these just
two lengths of tubing running the length of the car, or was there more to it
than that?   Thanks in Advance   Todd Horton

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From: <Bobspf@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 01:03:32 EDT
Subject: [PRR] X31f interior
Content-Length: 542

My understanding was that these turtle-backed  roundroofs were built to haul
Willys jeeps.
Anyone know how these jeeps were stacked in these cars and by what mechanism?

Bob Zoeller

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From: DZJN21A@prodigy.com (MR CHARLES J CHANDLER II)
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 07:11:22, -0500
Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Electrics
Content-Length: 1238

John, I used a system developed by PRRH&TS member Bill Kachel. At one 
of the Phila Chp. meetings several years ago he gave a presentaion on 
how to build it and provided a phamplet detailing the construction. 
This sys. is completely built from scratch and very cheap to build. 
Catenary supports are made from 1/8" & 1/16" brazing rod and code 100 
rail. The catenary is made from piano wire and solid copper 
electrical wire. This sys. can be electified and Bill noted that he 
enjoyed seeing the occasional spark at the pantograph as the train 
went by! If you don't like soldering that much, Model Memories now 
has a complete PRR sys. available. I don't know their web site off 
hand, but you can get it from Model Railroader Magizine. If you want 
any more info. let me know,but I am off to Pittsburgh for the next 
several days. Hope this helps you.  Charlie C.

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Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 09:27:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Derrick J Brashear <shadow@DEMENTIA.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Electrics
Content-Length: 682

>  John, I used a system developed by PRRH&TS member Bill Kachel. At one 
>  of the Phila Chp. meetings several years ago he gave a presentaion on 
>  how to build it and provided a phamplet detailing the construction. 

Anyone know where this pamphlet might be acquired? Does the Philly Chapter
still have them?

-D


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Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 22:32:37 +0100
From: "John H. Wright" <jhwright@jhwright.demon.co.uk>
Subject: [PRR] K4 tenders etc.
Content-Length: 2786

Following the previous thread re Bachmann K4s I have started making some
improvements to one of mine and wonder if anyone in the group could
check out a couple of assumptions I have made before I choose which loco
I am going to copy and it finally goes under the "Knife".  

1) The tender that Bachmann supply appears to be a 110-P-70.  My photo
collection, such as it is, seems to suggest that this type of tender
never ran behind K4s with stokers. When stokers were fitted it appears
that a 110-P-75 or sometimes a 130-P-75 was used. Is this correct or
were there instances of the old 110-P-70 being modified with a higher
deck for stoker use? 

2) When stokers were applied, am I right in assuming that usually a
second steam turret (cylindrical in shape) was added on top of the
firebox between the original turret and the steam dome? There appears to
be a live steam pipe from it to the stoker and a second pipe, the
purpose of which I am uncertain.  I also have a few photos that show
stoker fitted K4s without this extra turret.  Was the live steam taken
directly from the dome in these cases?


Regards,
         JHW

P.S. The talk about PRR electric locos reminds me that last year an
acquaintance of mine sold his beautiful collection of brass Pennsy
diesels and electrics to a dealer in order to buy G-scale stuff (strange
but true).  When I last saw this dealer some 6 weeks ago, all the
diesels had gone but he still had at least one of the electrics
left....I think it was an L5 (Custom Brass/KMT?). 
Dealer was Porter Wynn Models (UK) Tel: 01200 442409 Fax: 01200 442741
if anyone is interested.

It was nice to see, a few weeks back, that someone (it might not have
been in this group) was producing PRR catenary.  From time to time I do
get to see the occasional GG-1 running on layouts over here, but never
under wire...correct or otherwise. It does look rather sad without it.
Are there any PRR layouts in the USA that have catenary? I have not seen
any in the model mags, current or backnumbers.


-- 
John H. Wright
Washington
Tyne & Wear
England
Visit the Newcastle & District Model Railway Society's web site at:

            http://www.jhwright.demon.co.uk/index.htm

Descriptions and Views of our Layouts in:
        Z, N, HO (USA), HO (Continental), OO, P4, Ogauge & On16.5
Plus members' layouts and details of our exhibitions, news and events.
     

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From: "Greg Stone" <gas@fastinet.net>
Subject: [PRR] PRR centenial Hx
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 16:24:25 -0700
Content-Length: 444

E-bay has a centenial history of PRR for sale. WWW.ebay.com  search under
PRR.
Greg


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From: "tqpj6" <tqpj6@pty.com>
Subject: [PRR] PRR ops in Erie Pa
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 21:43:26 -0500
Content-Length: 509

Still looking for info on the PRRs passenger and freight ops in and around
Erie PA, especially a photocopy of a map showing the trackage.

Thanks Mac

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From: "tqpj6" <tqpj6@pty.com>
Subject: [PRR] The broad Way
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 21:45:41 -0500
Content-Length: 469

Anyone know what happened to Mark Bej's great website "The broad way".  I
keep receiving URL NOT FOUND.
Thanks

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Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 22:59:18 -0400
From: Jerry Shickler <geshick@velocity.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] rockville bridge
Content-Length: 1366

Greg Stone wrote:
> ...
>      A thought has crossed my mind to have them published and use the
> proceeds to fund a restoration project or the like. With the bridge 
> coming up on its' centennial birthday possibly this could be a good 
> time for such a publication for even non-PRR enthusiast. Proceeds as I 
> said could go to a PRR restoration project to be decided on by those 
> involved. This is just a thought!!! I welcome feedback.
-- 
I was thinking the same thing. If we get it, scan it & put it out on cd,
with initial proceeds going to pay back those who ponied up the dough. 
The rest could go toward the X23 or whatever. That way those who can't
contribute now can get the cd (and thus donate) when they can afford it.
The originals could then go to the Society, with the understanding that
the cd's will continued being sold. Let's make sure that the brass at
the Society knows about this so that we aren't bidding each other up.

Jerry Shickler
e-mail: geshick@velocity.net

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From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie)
Subject: Re: [PRR] K4 tenders etc.
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 22:07:24 -0500
Content-Length: 4472

John--Your first question:  The Keystone Vol. 21 No. 1, Spring 1988, has a
wonderful pair of articles on these tenders.  In a nutshell, if you can see
a horizontal row of rivets, which supported the tender deck, running into a
diagonal line, which supported the slope sheet, then the tender is not
stoker equipped.  Many of the 110-P-70 tenders were modified to 110-P-75,
but the mods included removing these rivet rows.  Either a 110-P-75 or
130-P-75 would be appropriate behind a K4 in the 40's or 50's.  Your second
question:  What you discribed as a second steam turret is probably the blow
down muffler.  The two lines coming down the left side of the firebox from
this device are not related to the stoker.  Not all K4's were fitted with
this.  The stoker usually was supplied steam from the steam dome via a line
which came down the left side adjacent to the air compressor steam supply
line.  The line then entered the jumble under the walkway.  Note the use of
"usually".  After all, we are talking about the PRR!
Hope this helps.
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
-----Original Message-----
From: John H. Wright <jhwright@jhwright.demon.co.uk>
To: prr-talk@dsop.com <prr-talk@dsop.com>
Date: Sunday, June 28, 1998 5:06 PM
Subject: [PRR] K4 tenders etc.


>Following the previous thread re Bachmann K4s I have started making some
>improvements to one of mine and wonder if anyone in the group could
>check out a couple of assumptions I have made before I choose which loco
>I am going to copy and it finally goes under the "Knife".
>
>1) The tender that Bachmann supply appears to be a 110-P-70.  My photo
>collection, such as it is, seems to suggest that this type of tender
>never ran behind K4s with stokers. When stokers were fitted it appears
>that a 110-P-75 or sometimes a 130-P-75 was used. Is this correct or
>were there instances of the old 110-P-70 being modified with a higher
>deck for stoker use?
>
>2) When stokers were applied, am I right in assuming that usually a
>second steam turret (cylindrical in shape) was added on top of the
>firebox between the original turret and the steam dome? There appears to
>be a live steam pipe from it to the stoker and a second pipe, the
>purpose of which I am uncertain.  I also have a few photos that show
>stoker fitted K4s without this extra turret.  Was the live steam taken
>directly from the dome in these cases?
>
>
>Regards,
>         JHW
>
>P.S. The talk about PRR electric locos reminds me that last year an
>acquaintance of mine sold his beautiful collection of brass Pennsy
>diesels and electrics to a dealer in order to buy G-scale stuff (strange
>but true).  When I last saw this dealer some 6 weeks ago, all the
>diesels had gone but he still had at least one of the electrics
>left....I think it was an L5 (Custom Brass/KMT?).
>Dealer was Porter Wynn Models (UK) Tel: 01200 442409 Fax: 01200 442741
>if anyone is interested.
>
>It was nice to see, a few weeks back, that someone (it might not have
>been in this group) was producing PRR catenary.  From time to time I do
>get to see the occasional GG-1 running on layouts over here, but never
>under wire...correct or otherwise. It does look rather sad without it.
>Are there any PRR layouts in the USA that have catenary? I have not seen
>any in the model mags, current or backnumbers.
>
>
>--
>John H. Wright
>Washington
>Tyne & Wear
>England
>Visit the Newcastle & District Model Railway Society's web site at:
>
>            http://www.jhwright.demon.co.uk/index.htm
>
>Descriptions and Views of our Layouts in:
>        Z, N, HO (USA), HO (Continental), OO, P4, Ogauge & On16.5
>Plus members' layouts and details of our exhibitions, news and events.
>
>
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>"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com".


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From: "tqpj6" <tqpj6@pty.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 22:32:57 -0500
Subject: [PRR] 
Content-Length: 426

What does "Protect connection" on freight schedules mean?
Thanks Mac

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From: "Stephen R. Sejda" <srsejda@jaguarsystems.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Electrics
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 09:01:30 -0400
Content-Length: 1145

Here's the web address for Model Memories:

http://www.info-4u.com/modelmemories/mproduct.htm

Hope this helps.

Steve Sejda


>Model Memories now 
> has a complete PRR sys. available. I don't know their web site off 
> hand, but you can get it from Model Railroader Magizine. If you want 
> any more info. let me know,but I am off to Pittsburgh for the next 
> several days. Hope this helps you.  Charlie C.
> 
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From: <LINESWEST@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 09:09:50 EDT
Subject: [PRR] Bowser website? Lines West Fan Fest update
Content-Length: 811

To all,

If there is a Bowser website, could someone post the URL?

And to anyone interested in the Lines West Fans Fest, I've been fairly sick
for most of June and my activity level was greatly reduced. I'm now feeling
much better and my condition is greaatly improved (still going to hospital
Tuesday for further outpatient testing by I'm reasonably sure everything's
gonna be negative).
Planning for the LWFF will resume in earnest.

Tom V.

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From: "Stephen R. Sejda" <srsejda@jaguarsystems.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser website?
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 10:16:26 -0400
Content-Length: 576

Hi Tom,

Here's the web address of the Bowser web site:

http://www.bowser-trains.com/

Hope this helps.

Steve Sejda

> To all,
> 
> If there is a Bowser website, could someone post the URL?
> 
> Tom V.


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Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy GL & GLA Hoppers
From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 98 10:45:48 -0400
Content-Length: 446

Has anyone tried to kitbash GLa's by shortening a Bowser H21??

regards,
Andy Miller


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Subject: Re: [PRR] The broad Way
From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 98 10:52:42 -0400
Content-Length: 927

I had no trouble using:
http://prr.railfan.net/PRRLinks.html

regards,
Andy Miller
============
Anyone know what happened to Mark Bej's great website "The broad way".  I keep
receiving URL NOT FOUND. Thanks

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Subject: Re: [PRR] The broad Way 
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 12:26:09 -0400
From: Dennis Rockwell <dennis@bbn.com>
Content-Length: 703

On 29 Jun, Andrew S. Miller wrote:

> I had no trouble using:
> http://prr.railfan.net/PRRLinks.html
> 
> regards,
> Andy Miller
> ============
> Anyone know what happened to Mark Bej's great website "The broad way".  I keep
> receiving URL NOT FOUND. Thanks

http://www.neuro.ccf.org/~bejm/Rail/Prr/ works just fine for
me.

Dennis

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Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 10:35:56 -0400
From: Drew McGhee <drm6@psu.edu>
Subject: [PRR] Querry: NYC Version of PRR Form CT 1000
Content-Length: 789

Greetings to the group,

A while back someone posted that the NYC version of PRR's Form CT 1000 was
being auctioned on E-Bay. As I remember, this person indicated that they
had a copy of this NYC document. Could the person who posted the
information or someone who can provide the poster e-mail address contact me
via e-mail?

Thanks.

Drew R. McGhee
Altoona, PA
drm6@psu.edu
http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/

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Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 13:20:46 -0400
From: Chris Brandt <cobrandt@eclipse.net>
Subject: [PRR] PRRTHS Web Page
Content-Length: 894

Eureka!

I just noticed that PRRTHS Web site has actually been updated.
(Or am I just seeing things.)

<http://www.prrths.com>

--Chris 
          _________
        __\   _   /__
--------\    | )    /-----------------------------------------------
---------\  |}/|}  /---------Chris Brandt---------------------------
----------\ |\ |\ /----------mailto:cobrandt@eclipse.net------------
-----------\ |   /-----------http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/------
------------\___/---------------------------------------------------

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Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 12:45:14 -0500
From: Andy Cich <ajc5150@net66.com>
Subject: [PRR] Reweigh Station Symbols
Content-Length: 844

When freight cars were reweighed, the new weights along with the scale
symbols were restenciled on the cars.  I have been applying this detail
to my freight cars.

Does anybody have a cross reference of these reweigh station symbols and
their location?  I know that P50 is Altoona, PA.  Some of my factory
lettered freight cars have P55, P57, and P205.

I would like to write a "modeling tips" article to submit for posting on
one of the PRR web pages.


Thanks,


Andy C.

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From: <Bobspf@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 14:25:49 EDT
Subject: [PRR] Brass P5A
Content-Length: 841

Hey, Lines East guys!
Dreamer's Hobbies in Milwaukee has two Alco P5A boxcabs at $150 each. Original
boxes.  Look to be virtually unused.  Didn't check running--you could ask Jim
Newell at Dreamer's it they run OK.  Don't know if that model in that era
ever ran great, but he would at least tell you if they are mechanically and
electrically OK. 
Dreamer's also has a brass 210F82A tender for $50.
Their website is http://www.execpc.com/~dreamers.

Bob Zoeller
Fox Point, WI

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From: <Bobspf@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 14:28:23 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser website? Lines West Fan Fest update
Content-Length: 520

In a message dated 98-06-29 09:25:35 EDT, Tom V writes:

<< If there is a Bowser website, could someone post the URL? >>
 
www.bowser-trains.com

Bob Zoeller

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Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 14:58:38 -0400
From: Dan Cupper <cupper@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Reweigh Station Symbols
Content-Length: 1094

Andy Cich wrote:
> 
> Does anybody have a cross reference of these reweigh station symbols and their location?  I know that P50 is Altoona, PA.  Some of my factory
> lettered freight cars have P55, P57, and P205.


P50 was Enola.  P55 was Mount Union, Pa.  P57 was East Altoona.  P205
one of the three Pitcairn scales.

A complete systemwide list appears in pages 620-625 of the PRR CT1000
for 1923; Jerry's Keystone Crossings page has at least some portions of
this document available, but I don't know if these pages are included or
not -- it's a big document, with more than 1,042 pages.

If you can't find this info there, e-mail me off-list and I'll try to
help.


Dan



Dan Cupper
cupper@ibm.net
Psalm 84:5

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From: "N Campbell" <rncamp@harford.campus.mci.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy GL & GLA Hoppers
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 15:54:56 -0400
Content-Length: 1115

No, But I ahve used the ends off of a H21 and put them on a Accurail USRA
hopper. This makes a pretty close model. The H21 that you get the ends from
then get the BCW H25 ends. These cars are not perfect but they are very
close to the Prototype and at a scale 35 mph who can tell.

Neil



>Has anyone tried to kitbash GLa's by shortening a Bowser H21??
>
>regards,
>Andy Miller
>
>
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From: "Stephen R. Sejda" <srsejda@jaguarsystems.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Brass P5A
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 16:16:44 -0400
Content-Length: 1513

Save your dime(s). Called them at 4:10pm Eastern Time.....the P5A's were
gone. Were gone in less than an hour of the original post!

Steve S.

----------
> From: Bobspf@aol.com
> To: prr-talk@dsop.com
> Subject: [PRR] Brass P5A
> Date: Monday, June 29, 1998 2:25 PM
> 
> Hey, Lines East guys!
> Dreamer's Hobbies in Milwaukee has two Alco P5A boxcabs at $150 each.
Original
> boxes.  Look to be virtually unused.  Didn't check running--you could ask
Jim
> Newell at Dreamer's it they run OK.  Don't know if that model in that era
> ever ran great, but he would at least tell you if they are mechanically
and
> electrically OK. 
> Dreamer's also has a brass 210F82A tender for $50.
> Their website is http://www.execpc.com/~dreamers.
> 
> Bob Zoeller
> Fox Point, WI
> 
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Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 17:00:18 -0700
Subject: [PRR] Two cents worth..
From: staffsgtyork@juno.com
Content-Length: 1149

Neil Campbell wrote:

>"No, But I ahve used the ends off of a H21 and put them on a Accurail
USRA
>hopper. This makes a pretty close model. The H21 that you get the ends
from
>then get the BCW H25 ends. These cars are not perfect but they are very
>close to the Prototype and at a scale 35 mph who can tell."

May be cheaper to modify the H21 ends and make Alumilite (or other resin)
castings if you already have to buy a fleet of Accurail hoppers to put
them on.  Free idea!  Plus eliminates all the leftover kit parts.

SGT York



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From: <Bobspf@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 01:07:33 EDT
Subject: [PRR] offtopic-abbreviation
Content-Length: 616

Sorry to waste bandwidth, but things seem a little slow anyway.
I thought I knew most of the internet abbreviation lingo.  Can someone on this
list enlighten me to a new one: "TIA" ?

Thanks,

Bob (and I thought the Air Force had mucho acronyms) Zoeller

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Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:10:04 -0700
From: ironhorse@sprintmail.com
Subject: Re: [PRR] offtopic-abbreviation
Content-Length: 1163

Bobspf@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Sorry to waste bandwidth, but things seem a little slow anyway.
> I thought I knew most of the internet abbreviation lingo.  Can someone on this
> list enlighten me to a new one: "TIA" ?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bob (and I thought the Air Force had mucho acronyms) Zoeller
> 
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Bob,
TIA means "Thanks In Advance".

Charlie (you ain't seen acronyms until you've been in Air Force
Communications Command C3I) Fox

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From: <TGREGMRTN@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 03:07:30 EDT
Subject: [PRR]  H-45 a long way from home!
Content-Length: 1839

Hey Gize,
   I was working today (we operate out of the BN station in Salem, OR) and
what should appear at the window but an H-45 in fairly good condition
considering it was built in 11-65 !!!!  Unfortunately it has been remarked in
a private road (NRLX-46181).  You ask how I could tell it was an original PRR
car, well I checked the Trucks for the telltale PRR markings cast into them.
Yep it was Pennsy all right and the trucks are marked ACF F-99 PRR V13092
3-65, on the A end and the truck on the B end was marked in BARBER S-2 dated
9-65 so at some point the trucks were swapped out, perhaps a wreck?  I could
see the remnants of the last two number prior to the NRLX markings, they were
----57.  I could also see the keystone with layers of paint over them. 
     Now for those of you who live in the East I am sure this is no prize
winner, but for us here in the West it is worth every drool !!!!  I will take
detail photo's of the car tomorrow.
     Now If one were to want to build one of these cars where should I start?
Should I  use the FRONT RANGE/MEKEEN-SKYLIM or the ACCURAIL kit?  It seems to
me that the Front Range car was more modern and a plate B car and the ACCURAIL
car is an older plate C car, or do I have it reversed?  I am looking for some
help here Gize, Also it seems to me that drawings of this car were produce
some years back, when and in what magazine?
    Thanks in advance
     Greg Martin    Watching from LINES way out WEST 

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