From: <TGREGMRTN@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 01:46:07 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] NX23, X23, X26 on Lines West (reply)
Content-Length: 782

Ron and all,
   If possible someone should check Mingo Junction. There was always a work
equipment there. The last time I was there it had X-23, X26, and X-29. Some
were still in gray and others in Yellow. Any ex- PRR equipment needs to be
recorded on film, regardless of it's condition. And detail shots of the
underframe and roof and ends should go with out saying. It saves guess work in
the future.
    Greg Martin

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Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 04:53:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: robert netzlof <wb3iqe@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Heads-Up! "Centennial History of PRR" on eBay
Content-Length: 790







---Hal6963@aol.com wrote:
>
> Item number 15729465 
> ending 6/6/98  05:01:48 PDT
> 
> "Printed in 1949, this is the book on the history
of the first hundred 
> years of the PRR.

<snip>

Actually, there are two:

Item 15729465 (as noted) and item 15881898.

Bob Netzlof
_________________________________________________________
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Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg Engine Facility
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 98 08:46:46 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1863

A few questions about the Harrisburg Engine Facility, which primarily 
maintained passenger locomotives:

I have an early Rails Northeast article on the diesel part of the 
facility. It includes a simple chart of trackage. The freight mains, in 
both directions, ran behind (east of) the facility. Between these and the 
facility was a single track labeled "Diesel Inbound". It led into the 
sand/fuel racks.

Was this really an "inbound" only track, or did locos return to service 
via this same track? Or did they proceed north past the throat to the 
diesel shops then return south via tracks on the west side of the 
facility?

The article includes a photo of an electric loco sanding. Some photos of 
the diesel service area indicates that there was catenary above the 
diesel sand/fuel racks and the aforementioned "diesel inbound" track.

Did electrics take on sand at the diesel racks? If so, that would require 
them to return south via the "inbound" track as the rest of the facility 
was not electrified, correct?

Anyone have a complete track plan for this facility -- one which includes 
all the diesel, steam, and electric facilities as well as the lead in 
tracks?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html


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Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 8:13:53 -0500
From: "Laird, Bill (GWise)" <William.Laird@coastalcorp.com>
Subject: [PRR] Track Charts -Reply
Content-Length: 1960

Date:  06/01/1998  08:11 am  (Monday)  
From:  Bill Laird
To:  INET.MAIL("PRR-Talk@dsop.com")
Subject:  [PRR] Track Charts -Reply

Harold,

Check with Dave Cramer, 2114 Sheridan Drive, Madison, WI 53704
(e-mail Trainsite@aol.com).  He publishes a catalog bimonthly ($ 2 a copy
or available by yearly subscription) which includes Track Charts and
Profiles.  The latest edition of the catalog "Railroad Paper Collectibles",
Catalog #39, April-May 1998, shows the following currently available
PRR Track Charts and Profiles:

1945 Eastern Div
1968 Allegheny Div
1943 Eastern Div
1944 Erie & Ashtabula Div
1945 Buffalo Div
1945 Cleveland Div
1945 Renova Div
1951 Pittsburgh Div
1953 Conemaugh Div
1965 Chesapeake Div
1965 New York Div
1966 Fort Wayne Div
1966 Harrisburg Div
1966 Philadelphia Div
1967 Chicago Div
1968 Buckeye Div
1968 Southwestern Div

Soon to be available:

1954 Susquehanna Div
1965 Northern Div
1963 Harrisburg Dist
1965 Susquehanna Div
1910's Type Book: Buildings

He also lists other PRR paper goods including signal charts, signal rules
book, right-of-way and track maps, train schedules, track diagrams, and
various rule books.

Bill Laird
Houston, Texas

>>> PRR-Talk@dsop.com 05/31/98 09:05pm wrote>>>
>Hello All,
>Does anyone have information on PRR Track Charts
>How often were they published?
>What is generally available?
>Sources other than eBay?
>
>I am specifically looking for Middle Division from 1900 through 1920,
however
>I have a general interest in their history.
>
>Harold
>Modeling the Middle Division



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From: <RickTipton@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:13:34 EDT
Subject: [PRR] Re: Chat List System Map Summary 5/31/98
Content-Length: 2363

In a message dated 6/1/98 9:45:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Railliar@aol.com
writes:

> In a message dated 98-05-31 17:04:57 EDT, AllKnow909@aol.com writes:
>  
>  << Eric Lundburg's layout -
>   26. >>
>  
>  A couple of nit pickies, Doug, as it appears I either don't know how to 
> count,
>  ran out of fingers and toes, or can't recognize a town when I see it:
>  Including the narrow gauge division, I've come up with 31 towns sted 26 (
> which
>  seemed like too many when I read it in your post).  These are towns that
>  appear on the time-table and/or figure in the computer-directed car-
> forwarding
>  program (where things get dropped and picked).
>  
>  And my name is supposed to be Lundberg.  But as long as I can cash the
check 
> .
>  . .
>  
>  eric
>  
> 
Eric,
Are these all modeled points?  Or did I mess up the instructions for this
census?  I provided a list of towns modeled, plus towns staged.

OTOH I have 52 destinations for routing purposes in the switchlist program we
currently use on the Panhandle's Columbus Division.

Why so many?
1. The Pennsy was a big system, with complex routings.
2. Some towns had more than one yard.  E.G., Pittsburgh had Pitcairn, Conway,
and Scully (X files fans take note :^)
2. Major passenger stations east and west of us are a separate destination
from freight facilities, for the purpose of switching headend equipment on
passenger trains. E.g., St. Louis Union Station, Indianapolis Union, Columbus
Union, Pittsburgh, and Penn Station New York.
This kind of operational detailing is welcomed by the true foaming railfan.
On the other hand, some of my operators questioned the last set of additions,
on the grounds they didn't want to memorize any more routings (that's when I
posted a printed cheat sheet of all routings, listing city, state, yard name,
assigned track at South Bellefield, etc.).

I guess that makes me                                Rick Tipton, SPF (Serious
Pennsy Foamer) 

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Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:52:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: bubbles@visi.net
Subject: [PRR] Pullmans
Content-Length: 1517


 Hello All...

   In the lastest issue of Model Railroader (June)there is a article by 
   Lee Vande Visse about building a O scale Pullman car.
   In this article he goes on to say that his proto-type for the car was a
   former PRR Pullman Parlor car the "Rotary Club".
   while it does'nt give a PRR car number its safe to say it was probably
   in the 7000 series...The article goes on to say this car is owned by
   to guys from Berea,Ohio. 
   Is this where the car is now? 
   Also there is a old Ex-PRR Pullman near me at Little Creek in Norfolk,Va.
   The name of the car is "Hazelton"..and the car is still in PRR paint...
   It seems this car was a PRR car as you can make out old PRR lettering under
   the current PRR lettering that is on the car now.
   Anyone know what type of Pullman this was and what plan?
   Another mystery to solve....

                                             Til Later
                                             H.Mummert

   P.S. N&W fans...there is also a N&W heavyweight diner and two 60 ft.
        baggage cars sitting along with the "Hazelton"
        ( near PRR B-60 twins i think)


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From: Mark D Bej <bejm@eeg.ccf.org>
Subject: [PRR] Frt. train schedules: Conway
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 13:50:47 EDT
Content-Length: 1056


Guys,
PRR freight train Conway departures are complete on
http://www.neuro.ccf.org/~bejm/Rail/Prr/Frtsched/
but for 3 trains which I'll add this week.

Project for someone who would like it:
Is anyone willing to scan the Conway departures in the pages that are
presently up and develop a schedule of a single 24-hour period, midnight
to midnight, of what left when?  Format would be something like:

Conway Trains by Time of Day, 1960
----------------------------------
       Westbound                                    Eastbound
Pass Thru    Originate          Train#         Originate   Pass Thru
---------    ---------          ------         ---------   ---------


--
Mark

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Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:53:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: alcoman <alcoman@net.bluemoon.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR] Pennsy Days at the RRMPA
Content-Length: 2144

The url you had in this mail was incorrect, see below for the correction

On Fri, 29 May 1998 VVA249@aol.com wrote:

>      Second Jerry's re: RRM of Pa - $25.00 dues for the friends is a bargain
> The newsletter "Mileposts" has a center spread of 4  page articles that are
> building to a looseleaf collection on all Museum pieces - all back issues are
> availible at the Museum store
>      If you live close the free addmission for members and guests should pay
> for itself in a couple of visits.....
>      If you have Railroad ancestors consider memorializing them with a brass
> plaque on the end wall of the new train shed - price was "donation" of $100.00
> when I put my Grandfathers up there a few years back (Edwin F Ross Telegrapher
> P&LE Frank L Kerr Conductor PRR)
>      The Museum's mailing  address  is:
> Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania
> P. O. Box 15
> Strasburg Penn 17579
> 
> Their Web site:
> www.arc.umn.edu/~wes/pennsy/rrmop/

SHOULD be www.arc.umn.edu/~wes/pennsy/rmop/

> 
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William J. Enser          Co-Network Administrator
                          Technical Support & Validations 
alcoman@bluemoon.net      net.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Online System
X2 & K56flex Access       www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network       
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From: <TodEngine@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:44:25 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] Frt. train schedules: Conway
Content-Length: 1042

In a message dated 98-06-01 14:00:23 EDT, you write:

> Guys,
>  PRR freight train Conway departures are complete on
>  http://www.neuro.ccf.org/~bejm/Rail/Prr/Frtsched/
>  but for 3 trains which I'll add this week.

To see the current Conrail train arrivals and departures, go up on the
overpass bridge at the east end of Conway and in a box next to the trash can
you will find the run sheets.  There should be more than one copy but if you
only find one don't take it.  New ones are placed there every day by a local
railfan who works for Conrail.  You can watch trains all day from the bridge
if you like, just don't park on the bridge. 

Rick Rowlands
Youngstown, OH

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Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 19:10:04 -0700
From: Roger Elliott <relliott@mail.telis.org>
Subject: [PRR] Re: T - 1 Question
Content-Length: 2404

Marcggast@aol.com wrote:

> Roger,
>
> I have a T - 1, old with 2 motors.  I am not sure how to tell if it is
> a Penn
> Line or
> Bowser, as I have not been able to find any markings.  I know Bowser
> bought
> out Penn Line, what I guess in the 50's?  Could you help me out as I
> am going
> to sell the T - 1 and Rivorossi Heavyweights.  I won't list while you
> have
> your sale.
>
> Some identifying items on the engine:
>  Dual motors - Pitman I believe.
>  The lower plate which holds the drive wheels in place appears to be
> brass,
>   The headlight bulb is a large socket type.
>
> Your feedback would be appreciated.
>
> Thx,
>
> Marc

  Hello Marc,
I'm afraid my T1 has no markings either.  The person who spotted it for
me 2 years at a model railroaders' auction was told it was a PennLine,
but there's no way to be sure, since it is believed that PennLine first
built their T1s with a single motor and then supposedly went to two
motors later on before Bowser took over and of course the Bowsers have
two motors.  I replaced the light on mine with a better bulb and
purchased from Bowser the correct Boxpok drivers since it came with
spoked drivers which the prototypes never had.

I saw another T1 loco for sale with no cars that was bought for $150 and
it was in terrible shape, not running.  But mine runs like the dickens
and I got ot for only $55. The big expense was the passenger cars. I had
to buy those one at a time, repaint them and decal them, put the proper
size wheels on ($70!), add Kadees and weights. I figured that with all
that work I shoud be able to get around $400.  I may readvertise at a
lower price later on.  Why are you selling yours? My HO club just got
too political.  Got to the point where I couldn't run anymore without
having to dodge the in-house bickering all the time.

Hope I was of some help.  You might try sending an e-mail to Bowser
since they have a website now.  I forget the URL but it comes up easily
with Yahoo.

Thanks,
Roger Elliott


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From: "Greg Stone" <gas@fastinet.net>
Subject: [PRR] NEA cabin car 
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:39:47 -0700
Content-Length: 1675

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BD8D95.08E04180
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ok so the model probably is incorrect especially since it doesn't have =
end ladders. The next question then is does anyone have a good photo and =
or diagram of one showing the doors so I can scratch build for the car? =
Secondly, doe anyone know how long these cars were in service MOW or =
otherwise?

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BD8D95.08E04180
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Ok so the model probably is =
incorrect especially=20
since it doesn't have end ladders. The next question then is does anyone =
have a=20
good photo and or diagram of one showing the doors so I can scratch =
build for=20
the car? Secondly, doe anyone know how long these cars were in service =
MOW or=20
otherwise?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BD8D95.08E04180--


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Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 23:59:41 -0400
From: Chris Brandt <cobrandt@eclipse.net>
Subject: [PRR] Strasburg for the web-heads
Content-Length: 917

I recently visited Strasburg and posted some new photos at

http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/strasburg.html

Please feel free to flame my photography.

--Chris 
          _________
        __\   _   /__
--------\    | )    /-----------------------------------------------
---------\  |}/|}  /---------Chris Brandt---------------------------
----------\ |\ |\ /----------mailto:cobrandt@eclipse.net------------
-----------\ |   /-----------http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/------
------------\___/---------------------------------------------------

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Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 21:28:48 -0700
From: Roger Elliott <relliott@mail.telis.org>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Strasburg for the web-heads
Content-Length: 689

Chris Brandt wrote:

> I recently visited Strasburg and posted some new photos at
>
> http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/strasburg.html
>
> Please feel free to flame my photography.
>
> --Chris
>

Hi Chris,Nice photos!  When you go back get some close up shots of the
vavle gear on those steamers!
Thanks
Roger Elliott


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Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 21:28:48 -0700
From: Roger Elliott <relliott@mail.telis.org>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Strasburg for the web-heads
Content-Length: 334

Chris Brandt wrote:

> I recently visited Strasburg and posted some new photos at
>
> http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/strasburg.html
>
> Please feel free to flame my photography.
>
> --Chris
>

Hi Chris,Nice photos!  When you go back get some close up shots of the
vavle gear on those steamers!
Thanks
Roger Elliott


!!NEXT MESSAGE!!
From: "Bill Knepper" <boxcar46@nfdc.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Strasburg for the web-heads
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 05:08:19 -0500
Content-Length: 1624

Chris,
Whats to flame !!!! Great shots.  What a difference the new train shed make
with the light. Thanks for sharing the shots.
Bill

----------
> From: Chris Brandt <cobrandt@eclipse.net>
> To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
> Subject: [PRR] Strasburg for the web-heads
> Date: Monday, June 01, 1998 10:59 PM
> 
> I recently visited Strasburg and posted some new photos at
> 
> http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/strasburg.html
> 
> Please feel free to flame my photography.
> 
> --Chris 
>           _________
>         __\   _   /__
> --------\    | )    /-----------------------------------------------
> ---------\  |}/|}  /---------Chris Brandt---------------------------
> ----------\ |\ |\ /----------mailto:cobrandt@eclipse.net------------
> -----------\ |   /-----------http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/------
> ------------\___/---------------------------------------------------
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
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> "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com".

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From: "Bill Knepper" <boxcar46@nfdc.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Strasburg for the web-heads
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 05:08:19 -0500
Content-Length: 1269

Chris,
Whats to flame !!!! Great shots.  What a difference the new train shed make
with the light. Thanks for sharing the shots.
Bill

----------
> From: Chris Brandt <cobrandt@eclipse.net>
> To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
> Subject: [PRR] Strasburg for the web-heads
> Date: Monday, June 01, 1998 10:59 PM
> 
> I recently visited Strasburg and posted some new photos at
> 
> http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/strasburg.html
> 
> Please feel free to flame my photography.
> 
> --Chris 
>           _________
>         __\   _   /__
> --------\    | )    /-----------------------------------------------
> ---------\  |}/|}  /---------Chris Brandt---------------------------
> ----------\ |\ |\ /----------mailto:cobrandt@eclipse.net------------
> -----------\ |   /-----------http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/------
> ------------\___/---------------------------------------------------
> 
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Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 04:37:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: robert netzlof <wb3iqe@rocketmail.com>
Subject: [PRR] CT1000's on eBay
Content-Length: 615

There are two 1945 CT1000's on offer on eBay:

CT1000E item 15795297

CT1000C item 16064913


Bob Netzlof





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Subject: [PRR] PRR X46 == 1944 AAR boxcar?
Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 11:26:34 -0400
From: Dennis Rockwell <dennis@bbn.com>
Content-Length: 1242

In perusing PRR Color Guide, Vol 1, page 85, I noticed that
the X46 boxcar looks like the 1944 AAR 40' boxcar which
deLuxe Innovations is producing in N scale.  The differences
I notice are (X46 vs AAR): straight sill vs notched, 8' door
vs 6'.  I can't see the roof of the X46, but it looks like a
different roof (all you can see are the ends of ribs).  I
think that the brake cylinder is mounted sideways, too.  The
side panels, eaves, and ends are correct.

I can pretty easily fix the sill (strip styrene) and door
(MT); I'm not so sure I want to tackle the roof, since
correct PRR roofs aren't readily available in N.  I won't
worry about the brake cylinder.

Am I way off base here?  Is there a better PRR match for the
1944 AAR 40' box?

Thanks!

Dennis Rockwell     SPF(N)    dennis@bbn.com      Cambridge MA

I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning!

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Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:26:52 -0500
From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Bridge model...
Content-Length: 2455

>Hi, everyone,
>
>A friend of mine who attended the PRRT&HS meet gave me a brochure for a
>fellow who's making HO scale skewed (sp?) arch bridges based on Middle Div
>prototypes.  Anyone bought any?  How are they?

Oh yeah!  And are they ever BOOOOOOTIFUL!  One problem I had though was
that they didn't survive the shipping to Alabama (but hey, not much
does...).  Since my problems, apparently the shipping boxes have been
revised to eliminate breakage.

Basically, the kit consists of 2 castings for the arches of the bridge,
about 3 castings for each end, and a center pier casting.  The final parts
are a bunch of pieces of wall board glued togehter each at a slight offset
to make the core of the bridge and to provide the "skew", and a piece of
homosote roadbed.  Personally, I could just as well have saved the weight
in shipping if he had provided a cutout template and instructions for the
wall board.

He was showing prototypes of a high stone arch bridge at Madison last
summer and again at Lancaster, and honestly there didn't seem to have been
much progress.  Reportedly, the guy who is doing this is a perferctionist,
and wants every stone to be perfect (and the available arch bridges ARE!).
I'm waiting for these bridges to become available!

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and
Director, Nucleic Acid Services
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/
********************************************************************************
Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society!
http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com
       _               _
      / \             / \
  ____\_/_____________\_/____   ____________________________________
 |- _______/ O     \_______ -| | __  __  __  __  __  __  __  __  __ |
 | /      PENNSYLVANIA     \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
 |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________|
 | O--O   \0   0   0/   O--O |   0-0-0                        0-0-0  



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From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 98 12:50:41 CST
Subject: [PRR] Bridge model...
Content-Length: 704

Hi, everyone,

A friend of mine who attended the PRRT&HS meet gave me a brochure for a 
fellow who's making HO scale skewed (sp?) arch bridges based on Middle Div 
prototypes.  Anyone bought any?  How are they?

PRR forever!

Sincerely,

George N. Pierson, Ph.D.   george.pierson@trnty.edu
Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College

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Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 18:02:20 -0400
From: Bob Zeolla <zeolla@erols.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Bridge model...
Content-Length: 1781

I also have one of these bridges, and yes they are great.  Mine also broke in
shipment, right at the narrowest part of the arch.  But with some creative painting,
the joint created by gluing it back together just added to the realism.

A word of caution:  These bridges are made in two, three and four track models.  The
center to center spacing he uses is pretty close.  It works if your bridge won't
have a curve coming off either end.  What I did was get the four track model and
only have three tracks going across since I needed the additional spacing for a
curve at one end of my bridge.

I was sort of intrigued by the article in a recent magazine (don't remember which
one, and I'm at work now) about scratch building on of these skewed arch bridges.
It basically used the same technique, except it allowed for a nicer treatment of the
under side of the arches.

Bob Zeolla

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote:

> >Hi, everyone,
> >
> >A friend of mine who attended the PRRT&HS meet gave me a brochure for a
> >fellow who's making HO scale skewed (sp?) arch bridges based on Middle Div
> >prototypes.  Anyone bought any?  How are they?
>
> Oh yeah!  And are they ever BOOOOOOTIFUL!  One problem I had though was
> that they didn't survive the shipping to Alabama (but hey, not much
> does...).  Since my problems, apparently the shipping boxes have been
> revised to eliminate breakage.


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Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 7:52:06 -0500
From: "Laird, Bill (GWise)" <William.Laird@COASTALCORP.COM>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Bridge model... -Reply
Content-Length: 949

Date:  06/03/1998  07:48 am  (Wednesday)  
From:  Bill Laird
To:  INET.MAIL("PRR-Talk@dsop.com")
Subject:  Re: [PRR] Bridge model... -Reply

>>> PRR-Talk@dsop.com 06/02/98 05:02pm wrote, in part>>>
>>>
I was sort of intrigued by the article in a recent magazine (don't
remember which one, and I'm at work now) about scratch building on of
these skewed arch bridges.  It basically used the same technique,
except it allowed for a nicer treatment of the under side of the arches.

Bob Zeolla
>>>

It was a recent (in earlier this year) NMRA Bulletin

Bill Laird
Houston, Texas

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Subject: [PRR] Main Line: STATE to ROY
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 98 14:39:53 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1212

Travelling east on the traditional PRR main line out of Harrisburg (STATE 
interlocking) and heading towards  the freight/passenger split at ROY 
(Royalton), were there any other interlockings in between?

I'd love to model a "classic" interlocking plant, but I won't be modeling 
as far east as ROY (besides, it's not a "classic" design). I may be doing 
parts of the Bethlehem Steel plant at Steelton, and an interlock would 
fit nicely in front of it. Otherwise, I'd just have 12+ feet of four 
straight tracks hugging the Susquehanna River.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html


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Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 20:54:55 +0100
From: J Bruce Andrews <bandrews@apdevint.mv.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Atlas locs
Content-Length: 1086

RICHARD ADER wrote:
> 
> Has anyone tried to use the shell of an RS11 on the chasis of an RSD4/5 to create an RSD12? 
>

Richard,

While I am sure that variations on this have been tried, there is the
basic problem that the RSD12 was 14 inches longer than the RS11. To
further complicate things, the RSD4/5 was 12 inches shorter that the
RS11. What I think has been done before in comercial RSD12 models, is to
use the trucks off an RSD4/5 with an RS11 frame and body. 

A good reference is Pennsylvania Railroad Diesel Locomotive Pictorial
Volime 1 - ALCo RS Series by John D. Hahn, Jr. from Withers Publishing
1995. This book has lots of pictures plus specifications and histories
of the various units.

Bruce

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From: "Bill Knepper" <boxcar46@nfdc.net>
Subject: [PRR] No Mail ?
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:25:47 -0500
Content-Length: 495

Hello Jerry,

Is there a problem or has there been no news in two days ?

Last mail was from Mark D.Bej on 6/2 at 5:50pm ????

Bill 

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From: "Bill Knepper" <boxcar46@nfdc.net>
Subject: [PRR] Cockpit Error !
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:29:31 -0500
Content-Length: 447

Jerry,

Forget the last......Guest on my machine !!!!!!!
Cockpit error fixed now.
Bill

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From: RLA0220@webtv.net (RICHARD ADER)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 18:53:38 -0400
Subject: [PRR] Atlas locs
Content-Length: 596

Has anyone tried to use the shell of an RS11
on the chasis of an RSD4/5 to create an RSD12?  From the photos in
Pennsy Power II
the bodies look alike.  With some detailing would it pass as an accurate
representation?
Thanks
Rich 



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From: <Hal6963@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:05:06 EDT
Subject: [PRR] Sunbury Division ETT (long)
Content-Length: 2284

I received my Sunbury 1919 Employees Timetable today. The full title is:

United States Railroad Administration
Walker D. Hines, Director General of Railroads
PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD
Eastern Lines
CENTRAL DIVISION
SUNBURY DIVISION
TIME TABLE NO. 18

Schedules (1st & 2nd class) include:
Wilkesbarre to Sunbury (12 trains daily)
Pottsville to Nescopeck (20 trains daily)
Sunbury to Lewistown Junction (22 trains daily)
Mt. Carmel to Sunbury (10 trains daily)
Sunday Trains (25)

Special Instructions include:
Standard Time
Signal Rules
Symbols
Bulletin Boards
Movement of Trains
Motor Car Rules
Direction on Branches
Passing Sidings
Movement by Train Orders
Yards and Yard Instructions
Coal and Water
Track Assignment
Manual Block System
Block Offices Open
Controlled Manual Block System
Interlocking Rules
Speed Regulations
Speed Table
Train Regulations at Passenger Stations
Air Brakes
Inspection by Train Crews
Personal Injuries
Equipment Failures
Company Surgeons
Miscellaneous
Station Announcements
Hours of Service Law
Commerce Regulations
Use of Telephones
Location of Telephones
Signal Indications
General Orders

Other interesting items include:
22 interlocking plant track diagrams
2 pages of signal diagrams in color

My primary interest is the Lewistown Branch because of the connection to the
Middle Division at this location.

I plan on scanning the entire TT and posting it to my Web page (see below).



Coming Soon to a Computer Near You  -- A World Wide Web site devoted to the
history, technical aspects, collecting of related railroadiana, and the
modeling of the Pennsylvania Rail Road Middle Division.

The site will focus on the Middle Division, its Branches and the interchange
points with other PRR Divisions, other major railroads, and short lines. 

Projected start-up date is July/August 1998.

Harold
Modeling the Middle Division

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Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 20:02:01 -0400 (EDT)

From: Derrick J Brashear <shadow@DEMENTIA.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Atlas locs
Content-Length: 764

>  Has anyone tried to use the shell of an RS11
>  on the chasis of an RSD4/5 to create an RSD12?  From the photos in
>  Pennsy Power II
>  the bodies look alike.
Yeah, Atlas did! I have one. The RSD-12 is actually a bit shorter (14" or
somesuch) than an RS-11, so it's not exactly accurate. Jim Six did an article
on how to accurately build one, which I can provide a reference to if you like

-D


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Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 20:10:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Derrick J Brashear <shadow@DEMENTIA.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Frt. train schedules: Conway
Content-Length: 879

>  To see the current Conrail train arrivals and departures, go up on the
>  overpass bridge at the east end of Conway and in a box next to the trash can
>  you will find the run sheets.  There should be more than one copy but if you
>  only find one don't take it.  New ones are placed there every day by a local
>  railfan who works for Conrail.  You can watch trains all day from the bridge
>  if you like, just don't park on the bridge. 

None recently; None today in fact. Oh, and the trash can is gone

-D


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Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 20:36:30 -0400
From: "s.a. mccall" <hosam@amaze.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Atlas locs
Content-Length: 1284


Greetings,

  No, I didn't do that.  I put some RSD4/5 trucks on a RS11 chassis to make
a RSD12.  Looks pretty good but is not correct length body for a RS12.  It
does pass but not as an accurate model.....Later....

At 06:53 PM 6/4/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Has anyone tried to use the shell of an RS11
>on the chasis of an RSD4/5 to create an RSD12?  From the photos in
>Pennsy Power II
>the bodies look alike.  With some detailing would it pass as an accurate
>representation?
>Thanks
>Rich 
>
>
>
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>
Sincerely,

S.A. McCall  HOSAM
Franklin, Va.

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Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 05:21:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: robert netzlof <wb3iqe@rocketmail.com>
Subject: [PRR] Official Guide on offer at eBay
Content-Length: 560

December 1942 Official Guide item 16411313

Bob Netzlof





_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


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From: <TVPedro@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 18:32:49 EDT
Subject: [PRR] UP FROM VIRGINIA
Content-Length: 1098



. SEPTA - the Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority that runs the
buses, subways, trolleys and regional rail lines in Greater Philadelphia is on
Strike,
However Buses and Trolleys in the western suburbs, as well as the regional
rail lines of the old PRR and Reading are still operating. This afternoon at
about 4:20 a Septa AEM7 (2302) arrived at the Frazer Yards (on the Amtrak
Harrisburg Line) with a string of Virginia Railway Express coaches and a
couple of MARC coaches.
>From a distance they looked like de-powered Rail Diesel cars.  Since the the
regional rail lines are taxed with extra riders and Septa has an excess of
motive power, it looks like they have borrowed equipment to help during the
strike. 

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From: <Hal6963@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 13:11:53 EDT
Subject: [PRR] Railfest 98
Content-Length: 703

Made my motel reservations today for Railfest 98. Will be in Altoona on
October 3 and 4.

I will be in York on October 1st, Huntingdon October 2nd,  Harrisburg October
5th. Anyone want to get togeather for some "Railfanning."

Anyone else going?

Jerry, are you going to organize us like last year?

Harold
Modeling the Middle Division

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Subject: Re: [PRR] Railfest 98
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 98 14:16:24 -0400
From: Jerry <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1464

On 6/6/98 1:11 PM, Hal6963@aol.com (Hal6963@aol.com) wrote:

>Made my motel reservations today for Railfest 98. Will be in Altoona on
>October 3 and 4.
>
>I will be in York on October 1st, Huntingdon October 2nd,  Harrisburg October
>5th. Anyone want to get togeather for some "Railfanning."

Contact me when it gets closer. I work in York and would be happy to show 
you around. Quite a metropolis, railroad-wise.
>
>Anyone else going?

Would like to, but...
>
>Jerry, are you going to organize us like last year?

I can't look that far ahead for this year. I was one of two Systems 
Administrators at my company...now I am the only one. Will become clearer 
around August 1. Perhaps someone else should take the ball and run with 
it this year. Last year Drew made the arrangements for dinner -- at 
Hoss's -- which worked out well. We had around 16 people if I recall.

-----------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
-----------------------------------------------


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Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 13:40:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Derrick J Brashear <shadow@DEMENTIA.ORG>
Subject: [PRR] HO P2K PAs... out yet?
Content-Length: 519

I note the Proto 2000 PRR PA-1/PB-1 aren't in the Walthers on-line
catalog, yet I have seen none yet. Have they shipped, and Walthers is
already out? 

-D



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From: carl.haslett@lmco.com
Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 17:50:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [PRR] Railfest 98
Content-Length: 930

Harold, Jerry, Drew, and all:

I will gladly help carry the ball this year for coordinating activities 
for PRR-Talkers planning to attend Railfest '98.  Due to non-rail 
family matters, I will need to be in Altoona at least one weekend every 
month from now till then.  So, even helping with background details there 
will be easy.  From the PRR-Talk e-mail archives, I / we can review last 
year's outing and use it as a guideline - so virtual Jerry will be helping.  
And I agree that dinner at Hoss's was an excellent choice worth repeating.

Carl Haslett



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From: <Huber25@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 22:47:29 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] HO P2K PAs... out yet?
Content-Length: 797

I was at Life Like on May 29th and they told me the next run of PA's was on
the way to the dealers as we spoke. I saw the SP "Bloody Nose" version here in
Houston today. The DGLE Pennsy's are due any day. LL said this run would all
be out before the end of the month of June.

I saw the P2K GP-20's while at LL and they are beautiful! I think the EMD Demo
engines were on the Pennsy so we all need to get at least two to run.

Roger

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From: <DAVESRR@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 23:02:59 EDT
Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Days
Content-Length: 463

Hi Guys,
Did anyone attend Pennsy Days today at The Railroad Musuem of Pennsylvania?
How was it?

Dave

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Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 01:29:36 -0400
From: Dan Cupper <cupper@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Days
Content-Length: 2384

DAVESRR@aol.com wrote:
> Hi Guys, Did anyone attend Pennsy Days today at The Railroad Musuem of Pennsylvania? How was it?

Greetings to DAVESRR and the list:

Was there as a vendor today, and so as a result, roaming around was
somewhat limited.  Attended one presentation on "The PRR Histories" by
Al Giannantonio and it was superbly delivered and illustrated.

The freshly delivered PRR-repainted E44 4465 is gleaming and nice; the
GP30 is pretty much in the same condition as it was at Lewisburg and
sitting right behind the E44. Early morning light is best for photos of
both.

Some nice models on display, ranging from Bill Lewis's N-scale layout
with appropriate PRR engines and consists, through the HO-scale
Strasburg model rr club display, very impressive, to the live steam guys
with their 1-inch-to-the-foot (or close) models of PRR steam engines
such as an M1 and a G5s.

A fine job of hospitality by the museum staff and the Friends of the RR
Museum.  Museum Director David Dunn was of course on hand, but also
during the day, Dr. Brent Glass slipped in somewhat incognito (exec
director of Pa. Historical & Museum Commission) in jeans and baseball
cap, not his usual attire.

Turnout seemed light, but then, it's not yet the heaviest tourist season
(that starts in July after school is out).  Weather probably conspired
against it, too. It was a perfect day . . . to be out pursuing railfan
activities somewhere else!

Among PRR-listers sighted: Andrew Harmantas (Sorry I didn't get to meet
you) with beautiful artwork on display, and Steve Sejda (did I spell it
right?).

Maybe someone else can report on Sunday's events. Publisher Paul Withers
will be at the table I was minding (today) on Sunday.  And a shameless
burst of commercialism: His PRR diesel Vol. 4 book (sharks, centipedes,
BLW transfer units) came out this past week and will be available at the
show. Sold quite a few of them Saturday.

All for now.

Dan C.




Dan Cupper
cupper@ibm.net
John 3:16

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Subject: [PRR] Merchandise Service Update
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 98 21:37:03 -0400
From: Jerry <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1098

A few days ago I mentioned that I would be updating the vendor list whose 
products I can supply at discounted prices. The updated list is now 
online at:
     http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html

I can now offer most brands from the Walthers catalog, plus Union Station 
Products, Champ, and Liberty Model Productions.

REMEMBER: When you purchase through "Merchandise Service" you are 
supporting this list and the sites of PENNSYRR.COM!!!

P.S. All Westerfield car kits on special through 6/25 at 20% off.

-----------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
-----------------------------------------------


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Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 23:08:28 -0400
From: Bob Zeolla <zeolla@erols.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] HO P2K PAs... out yet?
Content-Length: 1322

Saw them on Friday at Mitchells in Wilmington, DE.  Beautiful!  They have both PA
and PB, two numbers each.

Huber25@aol.com wrote:

> I was at Life Like on May 29th and they told me the next run of PA's was on
> the way to the dealers as we spoke. I saw the SP "Bloody Nose" version here in
> Houston today. The DGLE Pennsy's are due any day. LL said this run would all
> be out before the end of the month of June.
>
> I saw the P2K GP-20's while at LL and they are beautiful! I think the EMD Demo
> engines were on the Pennsy so we all need to get at least two to run.
>
> Roger
>
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Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 10:12:28 -0400
From: Drew McGhee <drm6@psu.edu>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Railfest 98
Content-Length: 593

Greetings to Harold, Carl, Jerry and the group,

Carl, if you would like to plan any group activities, I can take care of
scheduling Hoss's again. That really was a nice get together we had last year.

Drew R. McGhee
Altoona, PA


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From: <BBReynolds@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 10:18:11 EDT
Subject: FRA Transit: (was Re: [PRR] Re: Repeaters)
Content-Length: 1136

In a message dated 98-05-29 23:31:32 EDT, Gabe wrote:

<< Subj:	 Re: [PRR] Re: Repeaters
 Date:	98-05-29 23:31:32 EDT
 From:	gabe@polymath.com (D. Gabe Gabriel)
 Sender:	PRR-Talk@dsop.com
 To:	bobsin@nac.net, prr-talk@dsop.com
 <SNIP>

 
 >I think this is getting way off-topic for discussing PRR signals...
 >PATH is a color-light transit system - a railroad by FRA definition
 >(and regs - and the only such one in the US, I'm fairly certain),

<SNIP>
 
B&O's Staten Island Rapid Transit was also operated as FRA railroad;
when MTA took over operation and used "standard" NYC subway
cars, they had to obtain a waiver from the FRA requirements, if my
memory still works on that level.

Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA and Niles IL

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From: Mark D Bej <bejm@eeg.ccf.org>
Subject: [PRR] questions on PRR
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 10:42:14 EDT
Content-Length: 511


A bunch more questions, of a multitude of topics, on the PRR are posted on
http://www.neuro.ccf.org/~bejm/Rail/Prr/Questions/

Go at 'em!

--
Mark

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Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Days 
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 98 10:50:47 -0400
From: Rob Schoenberg <robs@gatefield.com>
Content-Length: 1882


DAVESRR@aol.com wrote:
> Hi Guys, Did anyone attend Pennsy Days today at The Railroad Musuem of Pennsylvania? How was it?

A few things to add to Dan Cuppers post about Saturday...

At the Phila Chapter of the PRRT&HS I found out a few items that were news to me at least...
First, the philla chapter is spearheading a project to both create a chapter web site and also get the
national PRRT&HS web site updated also.  They gave out the address of their test page but I can't
remember it right now... maybe it'll come to me.  Plans are to register a domain for the site...
Also, the RR Museum is in the process of acquiring a PRR ND bobber caboose and also a PRR H34 covered hopper for their
collection.  

The weather outside was beautiful so I missed most of the presentations..  The one I made it to was on
how to preserve railroadiana items...  Very interesting and well done.  

Over at the Strasburg I saw the H21...  It's looking pretty sad.  Hopefully they'll get to repainting it
soon!  I was also shocked to see their PRR ND bobber, their other cabin, and two of their coaches loaded
up onto highway trailers!  Heard that they're going to New Mexico for the filming of a movie!  I'd love
to see that caravan driving down the highway!  

To add to Dan's shameless plug, I bought the last copy he had at the table.  It looks great, like the
other three volumes...

I'll put some photos on my site when I get them back...

Rob

robs@gatefield.com  ...  (formerly robs@protocol.zycad.com)


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Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 08:51:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: robert netzlof <wb3iqe@rocketmail.com>
Subject: [PRR] PRR stuff on offer on eBay
Content-Length: 824

Official Guides:
Oct 1972        item 16751225
Aug 1969             16624270
Jan 1970             16623981
* ditto *            16412573
Dec 1942             16411313

CT1000's:
1945 CT1000E         16580800
1945 CT1000          16572230

Track/Interlocking diagram:
Altoona "ROSE"       16450281

Bob Netzlof




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Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 13:22:21 -0400
From: Frank Bagrash <fbagrash@fullerton.edu>
Subject: [PRR] apology
Content-Length: 600

Hi ,

I apologize profusely for sending an entire issue of the freightcars
list when I only wanted to forward one message from Jerry Glow at the
end of the digest. I hope somebody can help me out and please accept my
apology.

Frank



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Subject: [PRR] Opinion Question on modeling a scene vs. a line
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 98 13:42:14 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1827

I'm helping someone with a potential layout design, and I'd like to open 
an "opinion question" to the group:

One of the areas to be modeled is a heavy industrial area that, 
prototypically, has lots of activity. On the one hand, the modeler would 
like to recreate the real thing, but that would take up the entire 
modeling area, short of out-of-sight staging for the main line AND two 
branches that feed into the area.

What are the pros / cons / experiences of modeling one very detailed 
scene which is a "stage" for operations, with lots of traffic passing 
through as well as intense local freight switching, but with no other 
towns VERSUS having the model railroad represent a succession of towns 
along the right-of-way?

The former would offer some dramatic recreations of the real thing that 
space would never allow for otherwise, but would operations grow "boring" 
when a through train comes out of staging, passes through the scene, and 
exits onto staging within a minute?

The latter would offer longer runs of through trains, but would make the 
interchanges "dead" as there would not be room to stage them.

Your thoughts?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html


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Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 15:01:08 -0400
From: "Wayne S. Betty" <wsbcos@cris.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Opinion Question on modeling a scene vs. a line
Content-Length: 6710


--------------8ECBDBA81970C731687479A3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Jerry,
Not to long ago Dean Frytags (sp) layout was featured,  very heavy on the
steel theme.  Lots of heavy duty railroading.  Also, in one of the Great
Model Railroads, was a short segment on an industrial siding ( I forget what
year).

>From the sound of your post, it may be that you'll spend more time staging
than running.  There are some very interesting card/computer systems out
there that move traffic in a realistic way and keep staging to a minimum.
Bruce Chubbs' system on the Sunset Valley comes to mind.  I don't like
spending a lot of time staging things.  On my last layout I had a 3 track
staging yard, but I only used it for overflow storage.

To answer your question, I think the only way you're going to know is to put
some industrial type settings in and see how much you like it.  I like to
sharpen my skills with Train Dispatcher, but I also like to sit and watch my
LS29 stuff run around the fish pond too.
cos

Jerry_Britton wrote:

> I'm helping someone with a potential layout design, and I'd like to open
> an "opinion question" to the group:
>
> One of the areas to be modeled is a heavy industrial area that,
> prototypically, has lots of activity. On the one hand, the modeler would
> like to recreate the real thing, but that would take up the entire
> modeling area, short of out-of-sight staging for the main line AND two
> branches that feed into the area.
>
> What are the pros / cons / experiences of modeling one very detailed
> scene which is a "stage" for operations, with lots of traffic passing
> through as well as intense local freight switching, but with no other
> towns VERSUS having the model railroad represent a succession of towns
> along the right-of-way?
>
> The former would offer some dramatic recreations of the real thing that
> space would never allow for otherwise, but would operations grow "boring"
> when a through train comes out of staging, passes through the scene, and
> exits onto staging within a minute?
>
> The latter would offer longer runs of through trains, but would make the
> interchanges "dead" as there would not be room to stage them.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
> Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
> Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
>
> Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
> http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
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> -------------------------------------------------------------------
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> "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com".



--------------8ECBDBA81970C731687479A3
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
Jerry,
<BR>Not to long ago Dean Frytags (sp) layout was featured,&nbsp; very heavy
on the steel theme.&nbsp; Lots of heavy duty railroading.&nbsp; Also, in
one of the Great Model Railroads, was a short segment on an industrial
siding ( I forget what year).
<BR><BR>
>From the sound of your post, it may be that you'll spend more time staging
than running.&nbsp; There are some very interesting card/computer systems
out there that move traffic in a realistic way and keep staging to a minimum.&nbsp;
Bruce Chubbs' system on the Sunset Valley comes to mind.&nbsp; I don't
like spending a lot of time staging things.&nbsp; On my last layout I had
a 3 track staging yard, but I only used it for overflow storage.

<P>To answer your question, I think the only way you're going to know is
to put some industrial type settings in and see how much you like it.&nbsp;
I like to sharpen my skills with <I>Train Dispatcher, </I>but I also like
to sit and watch my LS29 stuff run around the fish pond too.
<BR>cos

<P>Jerry_Britton wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>I'm helping someone with a potential layout design,
and I'd like to open
<BR>an "opinion question" to the group:

<P>One of the areas to be modeled is a heavy industrial area that,
<BR>prototypically, has lots of activity. On the one hand, the modeler
would
<BR>like to recreate the real thing, but that would take up the entire
<BR>modeling area, short of out-of-sight staging for the main line AND
two
<BR>branches that feed into the area.

<P>What are the pros / cons / experiences of modeling one very detailed
<BR>scene which is a "stage" for operations, with lots of traffic passing
<BR>through as well as intense local freight switching, but with no other
<BR>towns VERSUS having the model railroad represent a succession of towns
<BR>along the right-of-way?

<P>The former would offer some dramatic recreations of the real thing that
<BR>space would never allow for otherwise, but would operations grow "boring"
<BR>when a through train comes out of staging, passes through the scene,
and
<BR>exits onto staging within a minute?

<P>The latter would offer longer runs of through trains, but would make
the
<BR>interchanges "dead" as there would not be room to stage them.

<P>Your thoughts?

<P>-----------------------------------------------------------
<BR>Jerry Britton, SPF&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; jerry@dsop.com
<BR>Visit "Keystone Crossings" at <A HREF="http://kc.pennsyrr.com">http://kc.pennsyrr.com</A>
<BR>Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

<P>Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
<BR><A HREF="http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html">http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html</A>

<P>-------------------------------------------------------------------
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--------------8ECBDBA81970C731687479A3--


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Subject: [PRR] York Railfanning Anyone?
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 98 15:16:01 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1375

Weather permitting, I plan to railfan the Frederick Branch out of York, 
Pa., on Saturday, June 20th. It's Father's Day, and I have an "escape 
from the kids" contract with my wife, who "escaped" on Mother's Day! 
Anyone game to join me?

Time is negotiable. Plan to start just west of the station and head west, 
on foot. To satisfy both modeling and bookwriting curiosities, I will be 
mapping out existing trackage and locations of buildings and current 
tennants. Will have on hand CT1000's for 1923 and 1945 for comparison, as 
well as 1903 Atlas of York, which shows all of the trackage at that time.

Plan to walk 2 miles -- beyond the York Fairgrounds -- doing this, then 
returning. Any takers?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html


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Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 16:42:38 -0400
From: mxb13@psu.edu (Michael Bezilla)
Subject: [PRR] Flyers and Emperors
Content-Length: 746

Did the PRR ever have a passenger  train with the official name "Buffalo
Flyer" between Harrisburg (and points south and/or east) and Buuffalo?
Local folks in the Sunbury and Williamsport areas use this term but I am
skeptical that the PRR itself ever used the title.

Also, what is the derivation of the name "Purple Emperor" that the PRR gave
Enola-Buffalo freight BF3?

Mike



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Subject: [PRR] York Railfanning Anyone?
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 98 15:16:01 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1375

Weather permitting, I plan to railfan the Frederick Branch out of York, 
Pa., on Saturday, June 20th. It's Father's Day, and I have an "escape 
from the kids" contract with my wife, who "escaped" on Mother's Day! 
Anyone game to join me?

Time is negotiable. Plan to start just west of the station and head west, 
on foot. To satisfy both modeling and bookwriting curiosities, I will be 
mapping out existing trackage and locations of buildings and current 
tennants. Will have on hand CT1000's for 1923 and 1945 for comparison, as 
well as 1903 Atlas of York, which shows all of the trackage at that time.

Plan to walk 2 miles -- beyond the York Fairgrounds -- doing this, then 
returning. Any takers?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html


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Subject: Re: [PRR] Flyers and Emperors
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 98 16:52:26 -0400
From: Jerry <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1095

On 6/8/98 4:42 PM, Michael Bezilla (mxb13@psu.edu) wrote:

>Did the PRR ever have a passenger  train with the official name "Buffalo
>Flyer" between Harrisburg (and points south and/or east) and Buuffalo?
>Local folks in the Sunbury and Williamsport areas use this term but I am
>skeptical that the PRR itself ever used the title.
>
>Also, what is the derivation of the name "Purple Emperor" that the PRR gave
>Enola-Buffalo freight BF3?

Buffalo Day Express -- Baltimore to Buffalo, via Harrisburg, Williamsport.

-----------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
-----------------------------------------------


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From: "Richard F. Makse" <maxrail@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: [PRR] CT1000 equivalent
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 16:10:29 -0400
Content-Length: 1046

Hi, all!

Bob Netzlof's recent listing of eBay items prompted me to write about Grand
X's equivalent book--"Stations, Sidings and Interchange Points". The 1925
edition that I recently purchased on eBay, appears to be a Form SCS-263 (the
printing is very much faded) superseding Form CA-60 & CA-61. While not as
sophisticated and detailed as the CT1000, it is a useful reference document.
So, if any of your Tuscan red people do need an obscure question answered
that might be covered by this Water Level book, drop me an email.

I don't want to offend anyone here by pronouncing the N, Y and C words but I
did enjoy some very nice miles on that railroad.

Dick Makse






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Subject: [PRR] Got my PAs today
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 98 16:54:11 -0400
From: Jerry <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 609

Got my PA's today...an ABA set. Nice!

-----------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
-----------------------------------------------


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From: <Hal6963@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 19:16:40 EDT
Subject: [PRR] P2K Ready-To-Run Tank Cars
Content-Length: 1006

8000 Gallon Type 21 introduced by American Tank and Foundry in 1921. This car
holds the record for the largest quantity of  tank cars ever produced.

Available in 6 packs in 10 road names.

I am looking for others to by six packs and set up an exchange so we can get
all road names without buying 60 cars each.

Road names available are CONOCO, DOW, APCO, GATX, HARBOR, KANOTEX, SHELL,
SHPX, UNION, AND UTLX.

I am willing to coordinate this effort. To get all cars you would need to buy
two 6-packs of the same car. We will need 10 modelers to participate to get
this to work. What do you think?

Harold
Modeling the Middle Division

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From: <Da72jmk@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 22:43:24 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] Opinion Question on modeling a scene vs. a line
Content-Length: 1391

In a message dated 98-06-08 15:04:13 EDT, Jerry asks:

<< What are the pros / cons / experiences of modeling one very detailed 
 scene which is a "stage" for operations, with lots of traffic passing 
 through as well as intense local freight switching, but with no other 
 towns VERSUS having the model railroad represent a succession of towns 
 along the right-of-way? >>

I know that some model railroaders want to capture a scene and model it as
accurately as possible.  For those modelers who see themselves primarily as
railfans, watching the action, this approach can work well.

However, I've always believed that you need at least two towns to give the
impression of going somewhere.  That is, of course, what railroads do...move
freight and passengers from one place to another.  Even on the 4 by 8's I used
to build, I always had two towns.  Two towns plus staging will allow you to
represent a very complex network of lines.  So, for operation, I favor the
latter approach.

Just my thoughts.   John Keel

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Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 22:58:05 -0500
From: Jeremy & Soni Helms <trainnut@internetmci.com>
Subject: [PRR] X37 Boxcar Decals?
Content-Length: 2223

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello to all,

I have recently purchased three Intermountain A.A.R. boxcar kits that =
are painted in a rather lack-luster developement of the shadow Keystone. =
 The are labeled as being delivered in 1939.  Is that the correct year =
for the delivery of these cars?  I was also wondering if any decal =
manufacturers make decals that could be used on this car that would be =
the as delivered circle Keystone scheme?  Thanks for any help.

Jeremy Helms

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hello to all,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I have recently purchased three =
Intermountain=20
A.A.R. boxcar kits that are painted in a rather lack-luster developement =
of the=20
shadow Keystone.&nbsp; The are labeled as being delivered in 1939.&nbsp; =
Is that=20
the correct year for the delivery of these cars?&nbsp; I was also =
wondering if=20
any decal manufacturers make decals that could be used on this car that =
would be=20
the as delivered circle Keystone scheme?&nbsp; Thanks for any =
help.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Jeremy =
Helms</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie)
Subject: Re: [PRR] X37 Boxcar Decals?
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 00:13:40 -0500
Content-Length: 4492

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Jeremy--Unfortunately the PRR went its own way when everyone else was =
building the AAR design.  The X37 was not an AAR design.  The =
Intermountain car makes a fair standin; the significant differences are =
in the ends and especially the roof.  The Keystone Vol. XIV, No. 4, =
December 1981, has an article on the X37 and related classes.  Many of =
them were delivered in 1939.  I have seen recent ads from Sunshine =
Models for the X37.  Champ Decals HB-303N would be my choice for the =
circle keystone scheme.  Have fun!=20
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola, FL =20
-----Original Message-----
    From: Jeremy & Soni Helms <trainnut@internetmci.com>
    To: PRR-Talk <PRR-Talk@dsop.com>
    Date: Monday, June 08, 1998 11:22 PM
    Subject: [PRR] X37 Boxcar Decals?
   =20
   =20
    Hello to all,
    =20
    I have recently purchased three Intermountain A.A.R. boxcar kits =
that are painted in a rather lack-luster developement of the shadow =
Keystone.  The are labeled as being delivered in 1939.  Is that the =
correct year for the delivery of these cars?  I was also wondering if =
any decal manufacturers make decals that could be used on this car that =
would be the as delivered circle Keystone scheme?  Thanks for any help.
    =20
    Jeremy Helms

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Jeremy--Unfortunately the PRR went =
its own way=20
when everyone else was building the AAR design.&nbsp; The X37 was not an =
AAR=20
design.&nbsp; The Intermountain car makes a fair standin; the =
significant=20
differences are in the ends and especially the roof.&nbsp; The Keystone =
Vol.=20
XIV, No. 4, December 1981, has an article on the X37 and related =
classes.&nbsp;=20
Many of them were delivered in 1939.&nbsp; I have seen recent ads from =
Sunshine=20
Models for the X37.&nbsp; Champ Decals HB-303N would be my choice for =
the circle=20
keystone scheme.&nbsp; Have fun!&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Steve Hoxie</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Pensacola, FL&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
    </B>Jeremy &amp; Soni Helms &lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:trainnut@internetmci.com">trainnut@internetmci.com</A>&gt;=
<BR><B>To:=20
    </B>PRR-Talk &lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com">PRR-Talk@dsop.com</A>&gt;<BR><B>Date:=20
    </B>Monday, June 08, 1998 11:22 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>[PRR] X37 =
Boxcar=20
    Decals?<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hello to all,</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I have recently purchased three=20
    Intermountain A.A.R. boxcar kits that are painted in a rather =
lack-luster=20
    developement of the shadow Keystone.&nbsp; The are labeled as being=20
    delivered in 1939.&nbsp; Is that the correct year for the delivery =
of these=20
    cars?&nbsp; I was also wondering if any decal manufacturers make =
decals that=20
    could be used on this car that would be the as delivered circle =
Keystone=20
    scheme?&nbsp; Thanks for any help.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Jeremy=20
Helms</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 04:21:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: robert netzlof <wb3iqe@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Flyers and Emperors
Content-Length: 1216







---Michael Bezilla <mxb13@psu.edu> wrote:
>
<snip>
> 
> Also, what is the derivation of the name "Purple
Emperor" that the PRR gave
> Enola-Buffalo freight BF3?
> 
> Mike
>

Rudyard Kipling wrote a story, the title of which
eludes me, based on railroads and railroading, in
which some of the action centered around the Purple
Emperor. This was the crack train on the railroad and
all else either served the Emperor or stayed out of
the way.

Having read the Kipling story first, then
encountering the name of the Buffalo Division train,
I wondered which came first. I would like to think
someone named the PRR train after the Kipling train,
but that's just wishful thinking.

Bob Netzlof
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


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From: "Harmantas, Andrew G." <harmanta@monroe.army.mil>
Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Days
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 08:27:00 -0400 
Content-Length: 519



> Hi Guys,
> Did anyone attend Pennsy Days today at The Railroad Musuem of
> Pennsylvania?
> How was it?
> 
	I did.  It was chilly outside.  Nice inside.

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Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 08:24:40 -0500
From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu>
Subject: Re: [PRR] X37 Boxcar Decals?
Content-Length: 2683

>     Hello to all,   I have recently purchased three Intermountain  A.A.R.
>boxcar kits that are painted in a rather lack-luster developement of the
>shadow Keystone.  The are labeled as being delivered in 1939.  Is that
>the correct year for the delivery of these cars?  I was also wondering if
>any decal manufacturers make decals that could be used on this car that
>would be  the as delivered circle Keystone scheme?  Thanks for any help.  
>Jeremy Helms

jeremy,

shadow keystone?  while built in/around '39, the X37 would have been
delivered in the "circle keystone".  I believe that the shadow keystone
scheme originated in 1953.  BTW, Middle Division makes some very nice sets
of PRR boxcar decals, although mail ordering seems a long term proposition
(my first order took about 2.5 months, and my current order is unfilled and
about 2 mos old).  Important markings to look for are BLT (built), NEW
(last painted - use of this started around 1948), and repacking stencil
dates.  The combination of these tells you if the model is painted
appropriately for your era.  I'm on a campaign to get manufacturers to make
this data more available, like on the box?

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and
Director, Nucleic Acid Services
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/
********************************************************************************
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trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number
of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great
literary works in Braille.
********************************************************************************
Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com
       _               _
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Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 09:45:09 -0400
From: Jim Hebner <hebnerj@clark.cc.oh.us>
Subject: [PRR] N5C restoration
Content-Length: 643

I am starting to restore a former Conrail N5C to PRR.

Does anyone have advice, tips?

Is any one will to answer questions that may arise?

Probably best to e-mail me directly rather than waste bandwidth responding to
the group.

Thanks!

Jim Hebner

hebnerj@clark.cc.oh.us

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Subject: Re: [PRR] X37 Boxcar Decals? 
Date: Tue, 09 Jun 98 09:42:54 -0400
From: Rob Schoenberg <robs@gatefield.com>
Content-Length: 2240

Just thought that I'd add that the Middle division makes two sets for these cars
HBX-1 is shadow keystone and HBX5 is circle keystone.  I'm not sure how easy
to find they'll be though.  Their mailing address is on my web page follow the PRR decals 
link off prr.railfan.net .  

Also for more info on the X37 check out my freight cars pages at
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/dispclass.cgi?class=X37  There's a short
discussion about the intermountain cars there...

Hope this helps...

Rob

robs@gatefield.com FORMERLY robs@protocol.zycad.com


Steve Hoxie replied...------------------
Jeremy--Unfortunately the PRR went its own way when everyone else was =
building the AAR design.  The X37 was not an AAR design.  The =
Intermountain car makes a fair standin; the significant differences are =
in the ends and especially the roof.  The Keystone Vol. XIV, No. 4, =
December 1981, has an article on the X37 and related classes.  Many of =
them were delivered in 1939.  I have seen recent ads from Sunshine =
Models for the X37.  Champ Decals HB-303N would be my choice for the =
circle keystone scheme.  Have fun!=20
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola, FL =20
-----Original Message-----
    From: Jeremy & Soni Helms <trainnut@internetmci.com>
    To: PRR-Talk <PRR-Talk@dsop.com>
    Date: Monday, June 08, 1998 11:22 PM
    Subject: [PRR] X37 Boxcar Decals?
   =20
   =20
    Hello to all,
    =20
    I have recently purchased three Intermountain A.A.R. boxcar kits =
that are painted in a rather lack-luster developement of the shadow =
Keystone.  The are labeled as being delivered in 1939.  Is that the =
correct year for the delivery of these cars?  I was also wondering if =
any decal manufacturers make decals that could be used on this car that =
would be the as delivered circle Keystone scheme?  Thanks for any help.
    =20
    Jeremy Helms

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Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 10:10:10 -0400
From: Drew McGhee <drm6@psu.edu>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Flyers and Emperors
Content-Length: 1714

Greetings to Mike and the group,

Being one of those "local Folks" myself, though from a little further north
at Lock Haven, I too called the north bound Buffalo Day express the Buffalo
Flyer.  I seem to remember everyone calling both the north bound and south
bound day express the Buffalo Flyers. When I got serious about researching
the PRR, I was suprised to find no offical PRR reference to any train
called the Buffalo Flyer. It must be one of those local things unless there
is some connection to a train from the P&E era. Growing up in the Lock
Haven area, many of the more "life experienced" locals still called the
railroad the P&E even into the early 70s. 

Along with Mike's question about train BF 3, does anyone know what train
the "Buffalo Box Car" was? I've seen this train name in print but have yet
to find any PRR documents that use this name.

Drew R. McGhee
Altoona, PA

At 04:42 PM 6/8/98 -0400, Michael Bezilla wrote:
>Did the PRR ever have a passenger  train with the official name "Buffalo
>Flyer" between Harrisburg (and points south and/or east) and Buuffalo?
>Local folks in the Sunbury and Williamsport areas use this term but I am
>skeptical that the PRR itself ever used the title.
>
>Also, what is the derivation of the name "Purple Emperor" that the PRR gave
>Enola-Buffalo freight BF3?
>
>Mike


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From: David Carey <dccareyd@ac1.co.ada.id.us>
Subject: [PRR] PRR:  Baldwin AS-16's on PRSL
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 10:10:58 -0600
Content-Length: 547

	Were the Baldwin AS-16's that operated on the Pennsylvania
Reading Seashore Line ever lettered for the Pennsylvania or were they
always lettered for the PRSL?     Were they black or DGLE?

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Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 14:18:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Derrick J Brashear <shadow@DEMENTIA.ORG>
Subject: [PRR] summer Keystone issue
Content-Length: 557

It was in my mailbox about 20 minutes ago. Various interesting things,
including a review of Triumph 1 and of the HO scale New Freedom depot.

I haven't read much yet, but it looks good....

-D


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From: "Richard F. Makse" <maxrail@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR:  Baldwin AS-16's on PRSL
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 14:24:17 -0400
Content-Length: 1413

David Carey wrote:

> Were the Baldwin AS-16's that operated on the Pennsylvania
>Reading Seashore Line ever lettered for the Pennsylvania or were they
>always lettered for the PRSL?     Were they black or DGLE?

They were built for and lettered PRSL (I believe the PRR bought AS-616's).
What makes it confusing is that 6011-6016 originally came in a dark
green--which was not DGLE but the station green used on PRSL stations. It
always appeared to me, having seen PRR DGLE alongside PRSL motive power,
that the PRSL did use DGLE until the Penn Central years when the PRSL
started repainting its motive power in what I thought was black. At that
point, it looked black to me but I was so used to watching the PRSL's
uniformly unwashed locomotives that it was hard to tell. Maybe someone else
out there can set the total record straight. I only wish that I had a
recording of those Baldwins because they did have a distinctive sound.

Reading AS-16's did, however, run on the PRSL to supplement PRSL power in
the late 50's.

Dick Makse


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From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 98 14:41:49 CST
Subject: Re: [PRR] Opinion Question on modeling a scene vs. a line
Content-Length: 3324

>One of the areas to be modeled is a heavy industrial area that, 
>prototypically, has lots of activity. On the one hand, the modeler would 
>like to recreate the real thing, but that would take up the entire 
>modeling area, short of out-of-sight staging for the main line AND two 
>branches that feed into the area.

Hi, all,

My 2 cents worth - if you plan to operate this layout, your decision might 
in part be based on:

a) the number of operators you want to have working at any one time.  More 
towns (esp. if there is local switching occasionally) keeps more crew 
occupied.  In my experience, a large concentrated area usually needs to be 
run by one, maybe two, people.  Also, if it's very intense, this can drive 
some operators away.  I'm part of four operating groups and there have been 
problems with two layouts in which there is a large yard with much 
activity.  Some guys have stopped coming because that level of intensity is 
not their idea of fun.

b) space considerations.  On both of the above layouts, the aisle size 
makes it difficult for even two people to work this area together.  More 
concentrated operation makes for more concentrated operators.

c) if you plan to operate with a timetable, having one area through which 
everything comes and goes has potential to be an operating bottleneck.  If 
things get screwed up there, everything else on the schedule gets affected.

d) if you really love industrial switching, then go with the built-up 
area.  Another of my operating group (Ed Lorence's L&S Div of the B&O in 
last October's RMC) has built an addition with this sort of switching.  
It's not subject to operating schedules and a couple of our crew love 
nothing better than to loose themselves in the industrial trackage 
switching.

e) Don't know if what follows applies to anyone but me, but in trying to 
recreate (at two places on my layout, Denholm and Port Royal, actual track 
plans, they turn out not to work very well for the kind of operating I and 
my crew enjoy - modest timetable operation with lots of local switching.  
Consequently I modified each area in small ways that have made them more 
fun to operate.  However, in one area of the NG, Blairs Mills, I've pretty 
closely followed the original track plan (condensed).  Here this has 
created challenges - some of the guys start to complain that there isn't 
enough track but many then add "but then the real railroad  didn't have 
enough track either."  If you really want to re-create the actual feel of a 
real place and the railroading it involved, then go with the repolica of 
the real thing.

All of the above is, of course, IMHO.

BUT maybe it would be fun for those of you out there with the operations 
bug to compare notes on how you operate your PRR layout.

PRR forever!

Sincerely,

George N. Pierson, Ph.D.   george.pierson@trnty.edu
Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College

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Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 20:51:00 -0400
From: Christopher Chany <no-soup-4-you@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: [PRR] PRR Engines
Content-Length: 1083

Hi every one,
I'm new to the list so excuse any Faux-pas.  A fewquick questions.

1)Bachman's baby Train master PRR Prototype? If so where found?
2)I heard someone was going to make PRR ballast, if not what is
appropriate for main line application.
3)Anyone know anything about the resin Erie-builts from Novatech Canada?
4)Saw the PRR Pa's at Valley Model trains NY They looked Great! Did PRR
ever have Tuscan red PAs.
5) Finally when i was young I use to take the EB Dusquense(sp?) from
Harrisburg to NY it carried a car that had a small parlor at one end
coach seats in the middle and a snack bar counter at the other end.
What class was it and have plans been published.
Thanks,
Chris
modeling the PRR in Ho

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Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 21:30:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Derrick J Brashear <shadow@DEMENTIA.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Engines
Content-Length: 963


>  1)Bachman's baby Train master PRR Prototype? If so where found?

Nope. Wrong phase, totally different body style. Could be bashed into something
close, but would need a bit of work.
 
>  3)Anyone know anything about the resin Erie-builts from Novatech Canada?

Took them forever to fill the orders. Decent looking, not great, but given that
it's this or brass....

If you can order them through a distributor or shop, that way is better because
these folks are flaky.

>  4)Saw the PRR Pa's at Valley Model trains NY They looked Great! Did PRR
>  ever have Tuscan red PAs.

Yes. 

-D

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Subject: [PRR] Track Fires
From: ptrmgtsvc@juno.com (Michael E. Allen)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 01:10:00 EDT
Content-Length: 1286

After a long discussion w/ the local fire chief  [who was rightfully
paranoid about the wire]  I have a couple of questions to throw out to
the list[s] [especially Eric Sondeen & Rich Dean]:

1. Has anyone out there ever seen a tie fire which they can confirm was
started by a cigarette?

2. What is the consensus [ok, is there a consensus?] on how to handle
them?

[For my purposes a tie fire is a defined as a limit number of ties
contained in the track bed with no critical or hazardous exposures.]

MEA
______________________________
PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY        PTRMgtSvc@Juno.com
Management Services                                   Telephone
609-683-0356

_____________________________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 5:59:46 -0500
From: "Laird, Bill (GWise)" <William.Laird@coastalcorp.com>
Subject: [PRR] PRR Engines -Reply
Content-Length: 1683

Date:  06/10/1998  05:55 am  (Wednesday)  
From:  Bill Laird
To:  INET.MAIL("PRR-Talk@dsop.com")
Subject:  [PRR] PRR Engines -Reply

>>> PRR-Talk@dsop.com  6/9/98, 07:51pm >>>

>3)Anyone know anything about the resin Erie-builts from Novatech
Canada?

DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH NOVATECH!  Their business practices are
awful.  I had to get Model Railroader Magazine (I got them involved
because Novatech advertises there) and the Canadian government to
apply pressure on Novatech to fill my order and it took over 6 months
after they received my full payment for merchandise.  As Derrick
stated the Erie built resin shells are okay but not great.  If you
absolutely must have a Novatech product get a dealer to order from
them and don't pay anything until the merchandise is in your hands. 
My story is not unique.  Others on the internet have posted tails of
having Novatech charge their credit cards and not deliver merchandise
and failure to give refunds to unsatisfied customers (although they
advertise a cheerful refund policy).  I think I spent as much on
international telephone calls trying to get my order from Novatech as
I did on the merchandise.  For months, each time I called them they
lied to me as said the order had just shipped.  KEEP CLEAR OF
NOVATECH.

Bill Laird
Houston, Texas


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From: <Hal6963@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 07:23:52 EDT
Subject: [PRR] Denholm Coaling Station
Content-Length: 539

Does anyone know of a source of information, pictures, etc. for the coaling
station and ash pits at Denholm in the Middle Division?

Thanks

Harold
Modeling the Middle Division

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Subject: Re: [PRR] Denholm Coaling Station
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 98 07:48:25 -0400
From: Jerry_Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 1085

On 6/10/98 7:23 AM, Hal6963@aol.com (Hal6963@aol.com) wrote:

>Does anyone know of a source of information, pictures, etc. for the coaling
>station and ash pits at Denholm in the Middle Division?

There is a Rails Northeast issue (have to check which one) that contained 
a track chart for the area.

There are two photos of the station in Kalmbach's "Heart of the 
Pennsylvania Railroad Book".

Just for starters.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@dsop.com
Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://kc.pennsyrr.com
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!

Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale:
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/index.html


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From: <Bobspf@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 09:14:47 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Engines
Content-Length: 1756

In a message dated 98-06-09 21:08:25 EDT, Christopher Chaney writes:

<<
 2)I heard someone was going to make PRR ballast, if not what is
 appropriate for main line application.
  4)Saw the PRR Pa's at Valley Model trains NY They looked Great! Did PRR
 ever have Tuscan red PAs.
 5) Finally when i was young I use to take the EB Dusquense(sp?) from
 Harrisburg to NY it carried a car that had a small parlor at one end
 coach seats in the middle and a snack bar counter at the other end.
 What class was it and have plans been published. >>

I'll let others answer 1 and 3.
2. Yes, PRR ballast is available.  I'll get you the name of the vendor next
hobby shop visit or if I can find the wrapper for package at Club where I laid
on an interchange track (to get some Pennsy religion in these Wisconsin guys
:-)).
4. Yes. In both 5-stripe and sngle broad stripe versions.  Also DGLE narrow
stripe on two A units.
5. Pullman plan 4019 and variations A, B, M, N & S. Plans for 6 cars published
in Keystone Vol. 22, NO. 1, Spring 1989.
"Courageous" and "Enterprise" were used on Duquesne.
Bethllehem Car Works has (or had) kit.  Beautiful etched brass sides with
Rivarossi body for base. Haven't studied kit to determine which variation (s)
it represents. No. 37 on my list of projects to complete (just completed an
X32, GLF, and two Sunshine FMs).

Bob Zoeller
Fox Point, WI

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From: <Bobspf@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 09:23:45 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Engines -Reply
Content-Length: 780

In a message dated 98-06-10 07:03:29 EDT, Bill Laird writes:

<< DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH NOVATECH!  Their business practices are
 awful.  >>

For what its worth, there is a vendor who occcasionally appears at the monthly
GMTS in Wheaton, Ill who has some shells for sale.  Maybe he makes it to other
GATS shows. You could avoid the troubles Bill writes about and maybe pick a
shell with best casting.

Bob Zoeller

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From: <SUVCWORR@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 09:51:09 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Engines -Reply
Content-Length: 1526

In a message dated 98-06-10 07:03:29 EDT, William.Laird@coastalcorp.com
writes:

<< DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH NOVATECH!  Their business practices are
 awful.  I had to get Model Railroader Magazine (I got them involved
 because Novatech advertises there) and the Canadian government to
 apply pressure on Novatech to fill my order and it took over 6 months
 after they received my full payment for merchandise.  As Derrick
 stated the Erie built resin shells are okay but not great.  If you
 absolutely must have a Novatech product get a dealer to order from
 them and don't pay anything until the merchandise is in your hands. 
 My story is not unique.  Others on the internet have posted tails of
 having Novatech charge their credit cards and not deliver merchandise
 and failure to give refunds to unsatisfied customers (although they
 advertise a cheerful refund policy).  I think I spent as much on
 international telephone calls trying to get my order from Novatech as
 I did on the merchandise.  For months, each time I called them they
 lied to me as said the order had just shipped.  KEEP CLEAR OF
 NOVATECH.
  >>
Ditto and amen.

Rich Orr

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Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 16:19:49 -0500
From: Dave Pfeiffer <dpfeiffr@mail13.voicenet.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Denholm Coaling Station
Content-Length: 1123

Harold,

        The Keystone had a very good article on the Denholm warf several
years ago.  I'll try to locate the article.

        Dave Pfeiffer


At 07:23 AM 6/10/98 EDT, Hal6963@aol.com wrote:
>Does anyone know of a source of information, pictures, etc. for the coaling
>station and ash pits at Denholm in the Middle Division?
>
>Thanks
>
>Harold
>Modeling the Middle Division
>
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From: pennsy@alphalink.com.au (Mike Molloy)
Subject: Re: [PRR] Track Fires
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:06:17 GMT
Content-Length: 1909

On Wed, 10 Jun 1998 01:10:00 EDT, Michael E. Allen wrote:

>After a long discussion w/ the local fire chief  [who was rightfully
>paranoid about the wire]  I have a couple of questions to throw out to
>the list[s] [especially Eric Sondeen & Rich Dean]:
>
>1. Has anyone out there ever seen a tie fire which they can confirm was
>started by a cigarette?
>
>2. What is the consensus [ok, is there a consensus?] on how to handle
>them?
>
>[For my purposes a tie fire is a defined as a limit number of ties
>contained in the track bed with no critical or hazardous exposures.]
>
>MEA
>______________________________
>PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY        PTRMgtSvc@Juno.com
>Management Services                                   Telephone
>609-683-0356
>

Hi Michael,

I was employed as train crew here in Victoria, Australia for ten
years.

In that time I witnessed many tie (called sleepers here) fires and
nearly all of them were caused by cigarettes that we assumed were
flung from a passing train. All of them were in our summer season.

Our standard response to a fire depended on the location. If we were
near a manned station then we would report it upon arrival. If,
however, we were in a remote location and on a pickup run (local
freight) then we would stop the train and extinguish it ourselves. 

You must remember that our climate is much drier that most of the U.S.
and therefore bushfire (forrest fire) is a much bigger problem here.

Hope this gives you the information which you seek.

Cheers,

Mike

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Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 11:13:32 -0400
From: mxb13@psu.edu (Michael Bezilla)
Subject: Re: [PRR] Flyers and Emperors
Content-Length: 1099

Dan, I'm think if this "flyer" term was in fact used by the PRR, maybe it
had something to do with trains running to the world's fair (exposition) in
Buffalo, that would be c. 1900-1901. -m


>I was skeptical, too, about "Buffalo Flyer" but not long ago saw
>something that seemed to corroborate the existence of this name. Will
>have to try to look it up.
>
>Also, not that it proves anything, but one of the artifacts I acquired
>for use in the Altoona RR museum's new/old facility that just opened was
>a piece of sheet music, circa 1910, with a title something like "Buffalo
>Flyer Two-Step" or maybe "On the Buffalo Flyer."  On the cover was a
>train with the letters P.R.R. prominently displayed on the tender.
>
>Dan



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From: "Liberty" <liberty@infonline.net>
Subject: [PRR] something new.....
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 11:55:10 -0400
Content-Length: 1413

Hi folks,

We are still working on all fronts (K4 Streamline, K5, Sharks, and N8
Cabin,etc.)

However we are going to have to push back the timelines by 4 to 6 months
due to a custom run project we are currently running, that has been
expanded.

The N8 should be up and running within the next 60 - 90 days though.

Also, we have aquired the rights to produce a Pennsy Shark (BP-20) in N
scale
we have the A unit shell running now, and the B unit to follow soon.  These
are designed to fit on a stretched Con Cor PA underbody/mech.  As we only
have to mold and cast these, they will run quickly.  In fact, we will be
incorporating a line of approx. 30 - 40 different N scale shells, that were
mastered by Jim Semikoski of Texas.  Many of these were previously offered
via 'Jim's N Scale Shells.   Liberty Models has reached an agreement with
Jim to produce, market and sell these items !!

If you are interested in N scale diesel shells, please e-mail for more
details.

Thanks,

Joe Zappa & Ray Gill,
Liberty Model Productions


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Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 13:18:43 -0400
From: mxb13@psu.edu (Michael Bezilla)
Subject: Re: [PRR] Flyers and Emperors
Content-Length: 1794

The only Kipling rr story I know is called ".007" so I went back and read
it and sure enough, Bob is right, there is a Purple Emperor in it. On one
page it seems it seems to be a passenger train -- "the millionaires
express" -- but on another, it's the "six-coupled" locomotive that pulls
the express.

Anyway, the short story dates from the 1890s and it is set mostly in a
roundhouse, and the locomotives talk and take on human qualities. The
Purple Emperor is "Master of the Lodge" at the roundhouse, where.007, a
4-4-0, is not accepted by some of the other engines because he is new and
untried. There are a number of references to the PRR. I believe the story
was recently reprinted in an anthology of rr fiction.

But why the PRR would name a freight train after the Purple Emperor,
whether it was a crack passenger train or a passenger locomotive, remains a
mystery.


>Rudyard Kipling wrote a story, the title of which
>eludes me, based on railroads and railroading, in
>which some of the action centered around the Purple
>Emperor. This was the crack train on the railroad and
>all else either served the Emperor or stayed out of
>the way.
>
>Having read the Kipling story first, then
>encountering the name of the Buffalo Division train,
>I wondered which came first. I would like to think
>someone named the PRR train after the Kipling train,
>but that's just wishful thinking.
>
>Bob Netzlof



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Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 12:36:25 -0500
From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu>
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Engines
Content-Length: 2305

Hi Chris, and welcome to the list!

>Hi every one,
>I'm new to the list so excuse any Faux-pas.  A fewquick questions.

>2)I heard someone was going to make PRR ballast, if not what is
>appropriate for main line application.

Arizona Rock & Mineral Co. at:
http://www.northlink.com/~azrock/index.html
They make very nice scale ballast and have a PRR variety that a number of
folks have said is very realistic.  I have had very good service working
directly with these folks.  They also make a lot of different rock products.

>3)Anyone know anything about the resin Erie-builts from Novatech Canada?
>4)Saw the PRR Pa's at Valley Model trains NY They looked Great! Did PRR
>ever have Tuscan red PAs.

Yes, even when regeared for dual service, some of these units maintained
Tuscan paint.

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and
Director, Nucleic Acid Services
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/
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Subject: [PRR] If you want PAs...
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 98 16:43:46 -0400
From: Jerry <jerry@dsop.com>
Content-Length: 934

Just a head's up:

As with other Proto 200 runs, the PA's are in short supply. Most 
distributors -- who in turn sell to hobby shops -- are already sold out. 
That's it; no more; no chance to reorder!

So, if you want them, order them from your favorite mail order place now. 
I got mine from Train World (see MR). PA's were $52.95 and PB's were 
$27.95.

-----------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/
Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
-----------------------------------------------


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From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 98 14:53:31 CST
Subject: Re: [PRR] Denholm Coaling Station
Content-Length: 2047

>Does anyone know of a source of information, pictures, etc. for the coaling
>station and ash pits at Denholm in the Middle Division?

Hi, all,

Yes, there was a complete KEYSTONE article on Denholm from the early 
1980's.  Don't have it in front of me but it's quite complete.  I've built 
a condensed version of Denholm on my layout and in the process was able to 
borrow copies of b&w photos taken in the late 1950's by Joe Henry Kline, a 
long-time area resident.  If you plan to model Denhom, let me know - I 
can share my info.  I believe I have been told that Joe Henry has company 
d