From: KEMACPRR Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 00:04:09 EST Subject: [PRR] New Bachman hoppers Content-Length: 1051 Any late PRR modelers out there might want to take a look at the new 100 ton H-43a hoppers offered by Bachman. I picked up a six pak two weeks ago at a GATS meet and am very impressed with what I got. Metal wheels which are concentric and in gauge. Mc Henry couplers with screw mountings so you can easily change to what ever brand you like. Weights concealed behind the slope sheets like the Bowser. Slope sheet braces installed and interior braces to be installed by you. The painting and lettering is crisp much better than the Bowser versions the only thing possibly wrong is the road numbers on side of car might be a tad small but the yellow ball is sharp and solid. I saw road names of PRR,RDG (speed lettering) CR, N&W, and WM in the gray stone scheme. Quite a shoch for a Bachman product but nice to see. Ken McCorry ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TVPedro Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 00:17:58 EST Subject: [PRR] Height of Head end cars Content-Length: 1043 All of the talk yesterday regarding the hight of AT&SF Express cars and the NY City tunnels brought to my mind how did these cars compare with the old PRR Balloon Top Cars. These cars had a higher height to accommodate sets for broadway shows, and were named for past broadway shows. My father was the first President of ICE CAPADES and I can recall talk in my youth that the show could move with five of these cars where it would require seven normal baggage cars. Since the only way you could get a baggage car was to buy 80 passanger tickets (as I recall). Moving with two less cars was a big saving. I know that Both Ice Capades and Ice Follies would latch on to five of these cars each fall for thr tour of the east and arrange all their travel with the PRR. The trip to Calif. each year was made with two extra cars. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 1 Apr 98 00:42:07 EST From: robs@protocol.zycad.com (Robert Schoenberg) Subject: Re: [PRR] Height of Head end cars Content-Length: 1500 Not sure how high the ATSF cars were but the roofline of the PRR's B60's and B70's & B74's were all 14'-0.5" above the railhead. (The vents on some were 2-6" above the roof - B60-s were 14'6" high to the vents...) Rob >All of the talk yesterday regarding the hight of AT&SF Express cars and the NY >City tunnels brought to my mind how did these cars compare with the old PRR >Balloon Top Cars. These cars had a higher height to accommodate sets for >broadway shows, and were named for past broadway shows. My father was the >first President of ICE CAPADES and I can recall talk in my youth that the show >could move with five of these cars where it would require seven normal baggage >cars. Since the only way you could get a baggage car was to buy 80 passanger >tickets (as I recall). Moving with two less cars was a big saving. I know that >Both Ice Capades and Ice Follies would latch on to five of these cars each >fall for thr tour of the east and arrange all their travel with the PRR. The >trip to Calif. each year was made with two extra cars. > >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 01:18:27 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Decal Answers not Frustrations Content-Length: 1866 In a message dated 98-03-31 06:38:47 EST, you write: << getting them straight after >they are on the car. >> Jerry, Here is my little secret and I trust you can keep it (LOL), it also works on the single stripes for your diesels as well. After you have slid the decal off the well soaked film at a very low angle. Hold the decal at left end of the car (right side if you are left handed) and with a Number 0 paint brush soaked in water slide the paint brush under the decal keeping it in contact with the model and moving away from the stationary end. The decal will naturally lift, so don't prompt it, and adjust the line only slightly to keep it straigth. Also Jerry I did not catch whose decals you are using, but I use only Champ and will continue to until Micro Scale get the color closer to the prototype. I realize that the Champ decals are shorter and require more splicing, but this system works. Remember a couple of things, cut the stripes on a piece of glass with a metal ruler and straight edged razor blade (not an Xacto knife) as the width of the blade is smaller. Let the decal dry completely before you add the diluted decal setting solution, I use Solvaset. Jerry my Meadow Brook car has won a 1st place at NMRA/DENVER `91, RPM/PORTLAND `94 and it was done the very same way. I will be doing an article later this year on a Cascade Series car, would you like me to photograph the technique in the article? Just don't wait til then to do the car, it was a New Years Resolution in MM Jan `98 commentary and you know how they go, LOL . Watching and sharing from LINES way out WEST... Greg Martin ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Disconcerting News Date: Wed, 1 Apr 98 06:13:14 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 2273 I just received a three page letter from Douglas, Madison, & Weibly, a law firm out of Norfolk, Virginia, acting on behalf of an unstated "Client." I'll scan in the letter tonight so everyone can see it, but the gist is this: I am being asked, rather bluntly, to "cease and desist" the following, with regards to "the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, hereafter referred to as 'the Corporation'"... 1. the continued use of the Corporation's 'Keystone' logo, in any form, size, or variation, for any purpose whatsoever (e.g. "Keystone Crossings", http://prr.dsop.com); 2. any other logos attributable to said Corporation, including but not limited to Dark Green Locomotive Enamel, 5 gold pinstripe, circle keystone, shadow keystone, lettering 'PENNSYLVANIA' in Futura or Craw Clarendon fonts, any images of Corporation including but not limited to Grif Teller paintings not in the public domain or privately held, ... (e.g. "Keystone Crossings", http://prr.dsop.com); 3. the continued electronic distribution of any documents published by the Corproation, by CD-ROM, Internet, or other means (e.g. "Keystone Crossings", http://prr.dsop.com); 4. the continued electronic distribution via Internet mailing list (e.g. "PRR-Talk") the implication of being an official source of information regarding the Corporation The letter continues, "full compliance is expected by April 15, 1998 to avert legal action on the part of the Client. This request is being enacted to protect the legal trademarks and copyrights of the Corporation as they pertain to reutilization in the coming months." Did anyone else get one of these? Sounds like we better distribute and download while we can. Perhaps a fire sale on "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings" CD-ROMs? BTW: I'm having my attorney look into it. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 08:05:00 -0500 From: Vincent Troia Subject: [PRR] Pennsy and B&O Content-Length: 5396 To: PRR-TALK@dsop.com I have been investigating If the PRR and the B&O would have had parallel trackage (possibly 4-track) or more specifically, where you may have seen the Pennsy passing the B&O, during the the transition era? I am considering this concept as a model. I would appreciate additional input from the PRR group. A summary of the responses from the B&O list are as follows: 1. Yes, heading north out of Washington DC, both lines were right next to each other out beyond Ivy City, along New York Avenue. There were a few "races" along that stretch. Many photos have been published of these events. And, the Pennsy's freight bypass line, the one that went along the Anacostia River to bypass Union Station, carried freights of both the Pennsy and the B&O. Freight trains rejoined the passenger tracks just outside the 1st Street tunnel and then ran across the Potomac River over the Long Bridge next to the Jefferson Memorial and into Potomac Yard. The B&O normally ran 2-8-2's in Washington freight service. Diesels were F's and FA's when I was watching. 2. Yes, the B&O and PRR shared the C&N Division between Newark, Ohio and Columbus. 3. Seeing as how the B&O and the Pennsy were bitter rivals it would seem unlikely that they would ever share their respective tracks. At least as far as Main Lines. One place they did have parallel tracks was in the Washington D.C. area (from Union Station to Ivy City Yard?) One tack you might take is to model a passenger station that they both used. Another possibility is in the Turtle Creek/Pittsburgh steel mill areas. Many roads were crowded together in these areas. Maybe others will come up with some other locations. With the amount of trackage they both had there must be more. Wish I could be more help since I model both roads, however in different locations (B&O in W.V. and Pennsy from Altoona to Johnstown). I do know that B&O also served Johnstown, Pa. but don't know how close their tracks were. 4. Now it's not 4-track, but don't forget the Columbus & Newark Division. That's 33 miles of track between Columbus and Newark, Ohio. Seemed to have been operated by B&O, but saw far more PRR traffic. Employees' timetable No.26 of 9/24/50 shows 2 B&O passenger trains each way daily and 11 PRR trains. Double track and 70 mph speed limit. 5. While not a four track area the B&O and the Pennsy did share a double track area. This was located on the mainline to Chicago, more specifically between Akron, Ohio and Warwick (Clinton, Ohio), 16 miles I think. One main was B&O's while the other belonged to the Pennsy. This was operated as a double track mainline. 6. B&O used Reading and CNJ rails to get to the NY area from Philadelphia, and used the CNJ's Jersey City terminal. B&O never ran into Penn Station. Running into Penn would have required some additional track connections at Philadelphia or Elizabeth that did not exist, and a change of motive power to electric to access the Hudson River Tunnel and Penn Station. Didn't the B&O use Penn Station, NY for a while? If so, wouldn't they have run over the PRR main from Philadelphia to NY? The B&O did indeed run into Penn Station by edict of the USRA during and after WW I. The public timetable issued November 24, 1918 (USRA/B&O)showed all B&O trains using Penn Station, and stopping at Manhattan Transfer, 8.8 miles out. All but one of the trains had a conditional stop at Bound Brook. By the May 13, 1923 timetable, the trains were still doing this, and most showed a conditional stop at Meeker Street station in Newark, as well as in Bound Brook and Wayne Jct. on the Reading. Same in the timetable of August 1, 1925, with the notation that Meeker Street was the Lehigh Valley station. No mention of the CNJ station or Jersey City in any of these issues. ...by the March 1, 1927 timetable, the B&O was showing in and out of the CNJ Jersey City station, with bus connections to New York City points. Had I not been lazy as I started to write, I could have simply cited Harwood's "Royal Blue Line", which gives the date into Penn Station as April 28, 1918, noting that the routing east of Philadelphia was Reading/LV/PRR. Eviction date is given as September 1, 1926. B&O Baltimore Division East End employees' timetables of August, 1921 and September, 1924 show all trains running to Park Jct.. in Philadelphia, which would verify that they were still operating via the old Reading route. Running into Penn would have required some additional track connections at Philadelphia or Elizabeth that did not exist, This would have been PRR = NYC to Hunter Tower, LV = Hunter to near Bound Brook (possibly Port Reading Jct.., where the 1939 LV employees' timetable shows a "railroad grade crossing", which might have included an interchange track). ...and a change of motive power to electric to access the Hudson River Tunnel and Penn Station. Correct; that was done at Manhattan Transfer. That concludes the summary of the B&O responses. Thank you in advance! Vincent Troia ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Cabin Database Date: Wed, 1 Apr 98 08:12:22 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 934 The source of the data for the Cabin Car database was a freight service report from circa 1957. That explains why it does not include cabins assigned to passenger service. I will collect data on cabins assigned to passenger service and have them added. The SPF database has only one bug left to be resolved; it should be online today. It will be privately linked with the URL added to the footer on "PRR-Talk". That is, it won't be linked to "Keystone Crossings" and I ask that no other web sites link to it. Thank you. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Disconcerting News From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 98 08:37:38 -0500 Content-Length: 3010 Jerry, Sounds like the A/H who tried this some years ago is alive and well and living in Virginia. The last time, he registered the name PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD as his personal property in Indiana , as I recall, and tried to extort money from model manufacturers. He was laughed out of court. Has the PRRT&H Society heard of this? the NMRA? the NHIA? This may be one of the virtues of modeling a fallen flag. If the UP was to try this they might have some standing in court. regards, Andy Miller ============= I just received a three page letter from Douglas, Madison, & Weibly, a law firm out of Norfolk, Virginia, acting on behalf of an unstated "Client." I'll scan in the letter tonight so everyone can see it, but the gist is this: I am being asked, rather bluntly, to "cease and desist" the following, with regards to "the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, hereafter referred to as 'the Corporation'"... 1. the continued use of the Corporation's 'Keystone' logo, in any form, size, or variation, for any purpose whatsoever (e.g. "Keystone Crossings", http://prr.dsop.com); 2. any other logos attributable to said Corporation, including but not limited to Dark Green Locomotive Enamel, 5 gold pinstripe, circle keystone, shadow keystone, lettering 'PENNSYLVANIA' in Futura or Craw Clarendon fonts, any images of Corporation including but not limited to Grif Teller paintings not in the public domain or privately held, ... (e.g. "Keystone Crossings", http://prr.dsop.com); 3. the continued electronic distribution of any documents published by the Corproation, by CD-ROM, Internet, or other means (e.g. "Keystone Crossings", http://prr.dsop.com); 4. the continued electronic distribution via Internet mailing list (e.g. "PRR-Talk") the implication of being an official source of information regarding the Corporation The letter continues, "full compliance is expected by April 15, 1998 to avert legal action on the part of the Client. This request is being enacted to protect the legal trademarks and copyrights of the Corporation as they pertain to reutilization in the coming months." Did anyone else get one of these? Sounds like we better distribute and download while we can. Perhaps a fire sale on "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings" CD-ROMs? BTW: I'm having my attorney look into it. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! - ----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Disconcerting News Date: Wed, 1 Apr 98 08:57:34 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1124 On 4/1/98 9:37 AM, Andrew S. Miller (asmiller@mail11.mitre.org) wrote: >Sounds like the A/H who tried this some years ago is alive and well and >living >in Virginia. The last time, he registered the name PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD as >his personal property in Indiana , as I recall, and tried to extort money >from >model manufacturers. He was laughed out of court. This did come from a law office, however, and not from any individual or business. > >Has the PRRT&H Society heard of this? the NMRA? the NHIA? This may be >one of >the virtues of modeling a fallen flag. If the UP was to try this they might >have some standing in court. Chuck Blardone quietly joined the list a few weeks ago. Chuck? --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Belpaire Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:03:24 EST Subject: [PRR] LIRR Cabin Cars Cont. Content-Length: 524 Still looking for info on the history of the two N5's that went to the LIRR. The only source I have is Cabin Cars of the PRR and LIRR, which shows a picture, but doesn't give any background. Does anyone have an idea where I might be able to find out about these cars? Any help would be appreciated. Roger ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Huber25 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:05:17 EST Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Web Content-Length: 383 Does anyone know what's happening with the PRRT&HS web pages? They haven't been updated since 9/27/97. I've e-mailed them with no response to when other than soon. Roger ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] SALE-Keystone, Vol. 28, #1 - Baltimore Date: Wed, 1 Apr 98 10:26:14 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 926 I just bought the entire volume 28 of "The Keystone". However, that gives me two copies of the Spring 1995 issue which is on Baltimore -- front to back. Condition is good. Copies are still available from the PRRT&HS for $10. I'll part with this one for $8, hand delivered to the PRRT&HS Convention next month (not cost effective to mail at this price). Anyone need it? OR I'll trade for one that I do not have...my index at http://prr.dsop.com/library/keystone.html has an "X" in the last column if I have it. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:28:13 -0600 (CST) From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] Disconcerting News Content-Length: 1193 In message <199804011122.FAA20493@arctic.tamug.tamu.edu> Jerry writes: > I just received a three page letter from Douglas, Madison, & Weibly, a > law firm out of Norfolk, Virginia, acting on behalf of an unstated > "Client." > "cease and desist" the > following, with regards to "the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, hereafter > referred to as 'the Corporation'"... > > 1. the continued use of the Corporation's 'Keystone' logo, in any form, > size, or variation, for any purpose whatsoever (e.g. "Keystone > Crossings", http://prr.dsop.com); If this is valid and upheld, how can Bowser and everyone else manufacturing models of PRR engines and equipment continue to use the keystone emblem or the Pennsylvania decals, and how can the paint manufacturers continue to make "Brunswick Green" (aka DGLE)? Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 harperd@tamug.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Web Date: Wed, 1 Apr 98 10:40:20 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1736 On 4/1/98 11:05 AM, Huber25 (Huber25@aol.com) wrote: >Does anyone know what's happening with the PRRT&HS web pages? They haven't >been updated since 9/27/97. I've e-mailed them with no response to when other >than soon. Jeeeez....this is a good subject to check the "PRR-Talk" searchable archive for!!! Last summer and into the fall we had a very lengthy conversation on this list about the pathetic web site the PRRT&HS has. In fact, since the site's "What's New" page states "The whole site is since October 27" we questioned whether or not they'd have to change the site just to add the year following that statement!!! They didn't, and the content still sucks! Basically, the consensus opinion was that Mark Bej, Bruce Smith, Rob Schoenberg, myself, and perhaps a few others were providing much more valuable content than the society could ever hope to...given the number of volunteers they have and non-profit status. We did question whether or not we (Mark, Bruce, myself, etc.) could have access to the archives to either scan and post the material or at least post a list of what is in the archives. Actually, now that I have a database server online, that would be a great application for it: what IS in the archives! Recently Chuck Blardone joined the list. Care to comment, Chuck? --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 10:31:28 -0500 From: "s.a. mccall" Subject: [PRR] Mergers Content-Length: 490 Greetings, Does anyone know what year the Norfolk Southern corporation moved from Roanoake, va. to Norfolk, Va. Or was it the other way around??? Didn't they get a split with CSX of the Conrail system? Who got what??? Sincerely, S.A. McCall HOSAM Franklin, Va. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 98 12:07:43 CST Subject: [PRR] P2K E7's... Content-Length: 817 Hi, everyone, I seem to recall some of us trying to locate the P2K PRR E7 a and b's in DGLE 5-stripe. My local hobby shop had a number of both as of yesterday. If interested, call Right Track at (708) 388-3008 and talk to Roger, the owner. He's in the south suburbs of Chicago. He usually charges full retail. He's usually open from 11 am to about 7 pm. Hope this helps - I already did mine with CAry carbodies and don't have the heart to replace them. PRR forever! Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 98 12:26:30 CST Subject: [PRR] New HO items... Content-Length: 642 Hi, gang, I had questions about two new items in recent MR's. May issue has an ad for PRR cantenary poles - anyone know more on this product? Also a few issues back was a mention of Ho and O reproductions of PRR builders plates. Again, anyone tried these? Inquiring minds want to know. PRR forever! Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Disconcerting News Date: Wed, 1 Apr 98 11:38:32 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 881 On 4/1/98 11:28 AM, Donald E. Harper, Jr. (harperd@arctic.tamug.tamu.edu) wrote: >If this is valid and upheld, how can Bowser and everyone else manufacturing >models of PRR engines and equipment continue to use the keystone emblem or >the >Pennsylvania decals, and how can the paint manufacturers continue to make >"Brunswick Green" (aka DGLE)? Don't know. Like I said, I have an attorney calling the author of the letter. Hopefully we'll all know more by day's end. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] SPF Database Now Online Date: Wed, 1 Apr 98 11:53:18 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1638 The SPF Database is now online. See http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html This link will not be placed on "Keystone Crossings". I ask also that no other sites link to it. Though there is no way to easily enforce this, I want this to be a private resource for "PRR-Talk" subscribers. Go to the site and bookmark it. Tonight I will add the URL to the footer that appears on all "PRR-Talk" messages. I want to express that participation is completely voluntary. There is no interaction between the listserv subscriber lists and the SPF database. You will not appear in this database unless you add yourself! When you add yourself, you will be asked for a user name and password. You can make up whatever you want. You will need these to edit your personal record at a later date. The system will e-mail your user name and password back to you as a permanent record. If you opt to enter yourself, all fields within the record are also voluntary (except last name, e-mail address, access name, and access password). The only record currently in the database is my own, so you can search for "last name starts with 'b'" if you want to see a quick demo. Enjoy! (Electric Locomotives are next!) --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Michael DiMaio" Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:37:02 -0500 Subject: [PRR] A discussion w/ mr. english of bowser Content-Length: 676 I talked to Mr English of Bowse about aqspects of the T-1. For those who want a non articulated frame, they will issue is sometime before the last judgement (he said don't hold your breath waiting). They are also considered using can motors if they can figure how to create a bracket to mount the motors in th casting...again sometime befor the last judgement. Michael DiMaio, Ph.D. Department of Philosophy Salve Regina University Newport, RI 02920 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:47:47 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Disconcerting News Content-Length: 334 I suppose that the State of Pennslyvania has received a cease and desist from calling itself the Keystone State! Harold ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:01:06 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] MORE Disconcerting News Content-Length: 3214 Hi all, >In message <199804011122.FAA20493@arctic.tamug.tamu.edu> Jerry writes: >> I just received a three page letter from Douglas, Madison, & Weibly, a >> law firm out of Norfolk, Virginia, acting on behalf of an unstated >> "Client." >> > "cease and desist" the >> following, with regards to "the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, hereafter >> referred to as 'the Corporation'"... >> >> 1. the continued use of the Corporation's 'Keystone' logo, in any form, >> size, or variation, for any purpose whatsoever (e.g. "Keystone >> Crossings", http://prr.dsop.com); > > > Don asked: >If this is valid and upheld, how can Bowser and everyone else manufacturing >models of PRR engines and equipment continue to use the keystone emblem or >the >Pennsylvania decals, and how can the paint manufacturers continue to make >"Brunswick Green" (aka DGLE)? Well, I'm afraid that companies can and will do almost anything to protect trademarks. Approximately 10 years ago, one of the major class one railroads threatened the decal and t-shirt manufacturers with trademark infringement. They backed off because of the terrible PR, but the law is on their side. If the rights to the "keystone" are owned, there is no difference between copying that, and MacDonalds or Xerox corporate logos. I'm afraid the law is quite clear and we are s--t out of luck. How do I know this? Well, I've been in meetings with the University Counsel all morning as they recieved a letter very similar to Jerry's. Their opinion? I don't have a legal leg to stand on - the University has asked me to remove all potentially infringing information and images from their computers immediately as they are unwilling to fight what they view as a losing battle for non-University purposes. BTW, since "Brunswick Green" was not trademarked, it can be used freely. It is also doubtful if DGLE was ever trademarked. Bowser may have to resort to selling locomotives and decals without keystones (to be added by you?), or to paying a royalty for the use of a trademarked image in their kits...Glad that T-1 I ordered is in the mail NOW! Oh Unhappy Day! Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:11:34 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] flaming the PRRT&HS Web Content-Length: 2202 >On 4/1/98 11:05 AM, Huber25 (Huber25@aol.com) wrote: > >>Does anyone know what's happening with the PRRT&HS web pages? They haven't >>been updated since 9/27/97. I've e-mailed them with no response to when other >>than soon. Uh, I hate to burst your buble, but that mod date is 9/27/96--THATS NINETY SIX folks, and that is flat out PATHETIC, and EMBARRASING, and... As I recall, we celebrated the one year aniversary of said site LAST September, right here on PRR-talk! Who's betting on 2 years without a mod? Of course given the latest news from our lawyers... You would think that MAYBE we could at least have the schedule for the upcoming convention posted on the site? It would take any decent web author about 10 minutes to do well, and maybe an hour to make it spectacular. However, offers of help for the PRRT&HS web page have seemingly fallen on deaf ears even after a request for help was published in the Keystone! Go figure... Enough flames - maybe we can get something moving at the convention to fix the problem. I'll volunteer in person this time, and maybe we'll get some motion. Happy rails Bruce PRRT&HS member Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Mergers Date: Wed, 1 Apr 98 13:21:32 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 922 On 4/1/98 11:31 AM, s.a. mccall (hosam@gc.net) wrote: > Does anyone know what year the Norfolk Southern corporation moved from >Roanoake, va. to Norfolk, Va. Or was it the other way around??? Didn't >they get a split with CSX of the Conrail system? Who got what??? Hmmm. I hadn't made the connection between Norfolk Southern being in Norfolk and that also being the source of my letter. Interesting. In very simple terms, the NS got most of what was the original PRR; CSX got most of what had been the NYC. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:36:19 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] PRR catenary was (New HO items...) Content-Length: 2702 George asked: >I had questions about two new items in recent MR's. May issue has an ad >for PRR cantenary poles - anyone know more on this product? Also a few >issues back was a mention of Ho and O reproductions of PRR builders >plates. Again, anyone tried these? Inquiring minds want to know. > Hi George, Two sources of PRR catenary: Friedlein's Rail Replicas P.O. Box 262 Medford, OR 97501 MODEL MEMORIES PO Box 692, Bethel CT 06801 (203)798-0544 http://www.info-4u.com/modelmemories/mproduct.htm modelmemor@aol.com Friedlein's used to be based in PA but moved out to Oregon recently. I believ that they are the ones advertising. Their catenary consists of single track I beam vertical support, with an I-beam horizontal and an angled brace. These may be made into double track versions by joining two. Construction is brass and they offer directions for hanging complete catenary. Model Memories has a much more complete line of PRR catenary, as well as other railroads such as New Haven. For PRR they offer two track bridges and 3 or 4 track bridges of a design similar to Friedleins. You can get Model Memories catenary as kits however. In addition, they offer pull off poles, high tension towers to add to the catenary, and premade catenary spans. I have just recieved some premade spans and 2 and 3/4 track kits, as well as high tension tower add-on kits. WOW!!! They are fantastic and will take a central place in my PRRMO modules. The PRR information is not yet on their web page, but they have detailed mailings and I found the folks there very easy to work with. Happy (electric) rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] MORE Disconcerting News Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 14:22:05 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 1509 On 1 Apr, "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." wrote: > >If this is valid and upheld, how can Bowser and everyone else manufacturing > >models of PRR engines and equipment continue to use the keystone emblem or > >the > >Pennsylvania decals, and how can the paint manufacturers continue to make > >"Brunswick Green" (aka DGLE)? > > Well, I'm afraid that companies can and will do almost anything to protect > trademarks. Approximately 10 years ago, one of the major class one > railroads threatened the decal and t-shirt manufacturers with trademark > infringement. CSX, right? > If the rights to the "keystone" are owned, there is no > difference between copying that, and MacDonalds or Xerox corporate logos. This was the point of the earlier lawsuit; this guy incorporated himself as the Pennsylvania Railroad Company and claimed the Pennsy logos as his. I believe that American Premier Underwriters (the rump PC) still owns the rights to the logos, but doesn't care much that it does. Isn't that how it came out? Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 14:43:55 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Disconcerting News Content-Length: 942 In a message dated 98-04-01 10:58:58 EST, Don Harper writes: :<< If this is valid and upheld, how can Bowser and everyone else manufacturing models of PRR engines and equipment continue to use the keystone emblem or the Pennsylvania decals, and how can the paint manufacturers continue to make "Brunswick Green" (aka DGLE)? >> CSX tried this years ago, but apparently saw the light and realized the ill will created among modelers who were best friends of the railroad (I guess, don't know the real facts). Problem is we are not dealing here with an ongoing entity of the size of CSX, from what I surmise. UPS may still be enforcing their ban on use of their name for commercial modeling . Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] flaming the PRRT&HS Web Date: Wed, 1 Apr 98 14:59:21 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1436 On 4/1/98 2:11 PM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: >You would think that MAYBE we could at least have the schedule for the >upcoming convention posted on the site? It would take any decent web >author about 10 minutes to do well, and maybe an hour to make it >spectacular. However, offers of help for the PRRT&HS web page have >seemingly fallen on deaf ears even after a request for help was published >in the Keystone! Go figure... They don't even have the index for "The Keystone" up to date. For that, you need to visit my "Keystone Crossings" or Bruce Smith's page. > >Enough flames - maybe we can get something moving at the convention to fix >the problem. I'll volunteer in person this time, and maybe we'll get some >motion. Others have expressed their opinion in the past that the "management" of the PRRT&HS is older, largely computer illiterate (with Orwellian fobias), and not willing to turn over control of the site to those of us who are technically qualified. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Michael DiMaio" Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 15:16:48 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Officers of the Corporation? Content-Length: 3417 Is the implication of all this that any one who has a keystone on their homepage in deep trouble? one would suspect that the PRR corporation would hae a list of officers and that the lawyers would have to supply it. In any case, remember that the PRR was swallowed up by PennCentral so that they still control all the right of ways. One wonders why this bunch of PRR people did not go after Amtrack for that PRR GG-! it ran years ago? Does this mean that the Penn State Railroad Museum has to eliminate their keystone? What has the Tech society to say oin this matter? > Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:11:34 -0600 > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." > Subject: [PRR] flaming the PRRT&HS Web > >On 4/1/98 11:05 AM, Huber25 (Huber25@aol.com) wrote: > > > >>Does anyone know what's happening with the PRRT&HS web pages? They haven't > >>been updated since 9/27/97. I've e-mailed them with no response to when other > >>than soon. > > Uh, I hate to burst your buble, but that mod date is 9/27/96--THATS NINETY > SIX folks, and that is flat out PATHETIC, and EMBARRASING, and... > > As I recall, we celebrated the one year aniversary of said site LAST > September, right here on PRR-talk! Who's betting on 2 years without a mod? > Of course given the latest news from our lawyers... > > You would think that MAYBE we could at least have the schedule for the > upcoming convention posted on the site? It would take any decent web > author about 10 minutes to do well, and maybe an hour to make it > spectacular. However, offers of help for the PRRT&HS web page have > seemingly fallen on deaf ears even after a request for help was published > in the Keystone! Go figure... > > Enough flames - maybe we can get something moving at the convention to fix > the problem. I'll volunteer in person this time, and maybe we'll get some > motion. > > Happy rails > Bruce > PRRT&HS member > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and > Director, Nucleic Acid Services > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > ******************************************************************************** > Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html > _ _ > / \ / \ > ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ > |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > Michael DiMaio, Ph.D. Department of Philosophy Salve Regina University Newport, RI 02920 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Fess Up Time! Date: Wed, 1 Apr 98 15:25:40 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1614 Ahem, yes, as some of you have figured out, the "letter" I received was indeed an April Fool's joke. Hope nobody is [too] pissed, though the info did make it through some other lists and, apparently a few newsgroups. Whoops! I'd like to thank co-conspirators Bruce Smith and Mark Bej...as well as those who learned along the day and kept silent. Thanks, it's been fun. At present there are over 220 "PRR-Talk" subscribers. Last April 1 there were only around 70. The "veterans" will remember that last year I announced -- in order to consolidate operations and thereby provide better service and increase profits -- I was merging my web site with the Internet's largest New York Central site. Boy did that one raise a stink! Like the Penn Central, my server followed suit with a hard drive crash and burn two months later! My backup failed and all data and the entire subscriber list was lost. We've rebounded and beyond during the last 12 months and -- getting sentimental -- its great having you all here. (BTW: A tape backup now runs nightly at 2 a.m. with rotating tapes and offsite storage!) Hope you enjoyed today's discussion...now, back to flaming the PRRT&HS web site! --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 15:35:11 -0500 From: "s.a. mccall" Subject: Re: [PRR] MORE Disconcerting News Content-Length: 1015 At 12:01 PM 4/1/98 -0600, "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." >BTW, since "Brunswick Green" was not trademarked, it can be used freely. >It is also doubtful if DGLE was ever trademarked. Bowser may have to >resort to selling locomotives and decals without keystones (to be added by >you?), or to paying a royalty for the use of a trademarked image in their >kits...Glad that T-1 I ordered is in the mail NOW! Greetings, Having been a proponnent of "Brunswick Green", I am now receiving a helping hand from the legal side. Never again disparage the use of "Brunswick Green" or you might get a letter from Norfolk or close to Norfolk!! This is to all those DGLE crusaders who may be treading on dangerous ground. Sincerely, S.A. McCall HOSAM Franklin, Va. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 12:58:50 -0800 From: Sharon Edwards Subject: Re: [PRR] Disconcerting News Content-Length: 4263 To All, This is not the first time that this has surfaced in model railroading, in fact it is not the first time concerning the PRR. One occurance as I remember was an effort by I beleive the C&O concerning the use of the Chessie symbol which as I remember was a trade mark. The C&O tried to collect royalties for the use of the trade mark and finally gave up after alot of negitive PR. I got the impression that they might have thought that there was more money to be had than was really available in the model industry. When I was involved in the model industry, the PRR trade marks issue raised its ugly head. I beleive that someone had regestered the PRR names and trade marks and were trying to collect money for the use of them. Seems like this went on about 5 to 7 years ago. How any one could register symbols from an no longer existing railroad that didnot register them itself does not make sense to me. I would bet that this is the same indivudual as before. The wise thing to do would be to send copies of the letter to the major model manufacturers such as Walthers, Micro Trains, Bachman, Atlas, and MRIA(model rr indust. assoc.). someone in the industry no doubt will have info on what happened before and what was done. Getting major players in the industry involved should help. On a side note, I have seen where an individual was able to get truck manufacturers to license their trade marks only to him for toys. He handles all the royalty collection for the current manufacturers such as Peterbilt, Kenworth, etc., for any one that makes a toy with a trademark on it. Doug Edwards Jerry wrote: > > I just received a three page letter from Douglas, Madison, & Weibly, a > law firm out of Norfolk, Virginia, acting on behalf of an unstated > "Client." > > I'll scan in the letter tonight so everyone can see it, but the gist is > this: I am being asked, rather bluntly, to "cease and desist" the > following, with regards to "the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, hereafter > referred to as 'the Corporation'"... > > 1. the continued use of the Corporation's 'Keystone' logo, in any form, > size, or variation, for any purpose whatsoever (e.g. "Keystone > Crossings", http://prr.dsop.com); > > 2. any other logos attributable to said Corporation, including but not > limited to Dark Green Locomotive Enamel, 5 gold pinstripe, circle > keystone, shadow keystone, lettering 'PENNSYLVANIA' in Futura or Craw > Clarendon > fonts, any images of Corporation including but not limited to Grif Teller > paintings not in the public domain or privately held, ... (e.g. "Keystone > Crossings", http://prr.dsop.com); > > 3. the continued electronic distribution of any documents published by > the Corproation, by CD-ROM, Internet, or other means (e.g. "Keystone > Crossings", http://prr.dsop.com); > > 4. the continued electronic distribution via Internet mailing list (e.g. > "PRR-Talk") the implication of being an official source of information > regarding the Corporation > > The letter continues, "full compliance is expected by April 15, 1998 to > avert legal action on the part of the Client. This request is being > enacted to protect the legal trademarks and copyrights of the Corporation > as they pertain to reutilization in the coming months." > > Did anyone else get one of these? > > Sounds like we better distribute and download while we can. Perhaps a > fire sale on "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings" CD-ROMs? > > BTW: I'm having my attorney look into it. > > ----------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton > "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > ----------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Knepper" Subject: Re: [PRR] Mergers Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 17:00:48 -0500 Content-Length: 1087 This has a tingle of " Pennsylvania Southern" ? With a Keystone ? ---------- > From: s.a. mccall > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Mergers > Date: Wednesday, April 01, 1998 10:31 AM > > > Greetings, > > Does anyone know what year the Norfolk Southern corporation moved from > Roanoake, va. to Norfolk, Va. Or was it the other way around??? Didn't > they get a split with CSX of the Conrail system? Who got what??? > Sincerely, > > S.A. McCall HOSAM > Franklin, Va. > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 16:56:59 -0500 From: bobp@tsc.com (Bob Poortinga) Subject: [PRR] Re: Disconcerting News Content-Length: 1157 On Wed, 1 Apr 98 06:13:14 -0400 Jerry writes: ^^^^^ > I just received a three page letter from Douglas, Madison, & Weibly, a > law firm out of Norfolk, Virginia, acting on behalf of an unstated > "Client." > [snip...] > The letter continues, "full compliance is expected by April 15, 1998 to > avert legal action on the part of the Client. This request is being > enacted to protect the legal trademarks and copyrights of the Corporation > as they pertain to reutilization in the coming months." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Before this gets out of hand, I think we should all ask Jerry if he is playing some cruel April Fool's joke on us? -- Bob Poortinga (mailto:bobp@tsc.com) Technology Service Corp. Bloomington, Indiana USA ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 17:01:48 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Disconcerting News Content-Length: 711 Jerry: Have your attorney contact Jim Lynch Sec. Treas. PRRT&HS and an attorney about the case involving that "gentleman" from Indiana and PENNCORP. I do believe that the courts ruled this is all in the public domain because PENN CORP failed to protect the copyright, trademark etc. and because the PRR freely allowed the use by modlers. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 08:07:36 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Re: Cabins in Passenger Service Content-Length: 2028 Hi Jerry, and SPFs, >I believe there was an issue of "The Keystone" in 1996 that featured >Cabins in Passenger Service. Can someone please look and see if there is >a roster? If so, could someone either 1) key in the info for me; 2) >photocopy it and mail it to me; or 3) photocopy and FAX it to me...so I >can add this info to the database. The issue in question is: Summer 1996, Volume 29, Number 2 It is at home, but as I recall, not only was there a roster of these cabins, but there were charts indicating the headend equipment of a number of trains, as well as complete painting diagrams. A partial Keystone index (back to Spring 1996) is available at my web site, and I have added a new feature on Bridges of the PRR, featuring, for now, very old photos of Rockville, Martic Forge and Safe Harbor. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 09:40:33 -0500 From: Conan Evans Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg track Content-Length: 987 Jerry and Friends, With reguards to the thread about the CV bridge and assosiated bridges across the Susquehanna.... The NCRy r-o-w continued northward on the west side of the river to Marysville, where it crossed to the east and continued northward, via a wooden and partially covered bridge. The abutments to this NCRy bridge are still visible from Rt 15. What is the history behind the scaled Statue of Liberty model that is out in the middle of the river. When, who and how did it get out there? In seeing where it resides, I can't help but wonder the trials it faces every time the river rises. Conan Evans ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:50:01 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Some thoughts on PRR-talk and being an SPF was Re: Content-Length: 1353 In a message dated 98-04-01 23:55:32 EST, Tom V writes: << It is up to us modelers to preserve the memory, history and lore of the Standard Railroad of the World. It's hard to railfan a road that's been gone organizationaloly for 30 years and, at least in thjis corner of the Southwest Region, vanished quite literally as Conrail abandoned most of the Pennsy trackage in Southwest Ohio for NYC rouitngs. >> Watching the UP absorb the C&NW locally is a lesson as now just about everybody's favorite line is a fallen flag, with only four major carriers left. At Butler Yard west of Milwaukee , they put a big UP logo up on the yardoffice before the ink was barely dry on the merger documents. This month they just tore the whole building down. So much for the next generation of Northwestern fans trying to find some history. I wonder 30 years from now how much SP, SF, or BN (itself a merger) equipment will be sold. Just off-topic ruminations. Bob Zoeller Fox Point, WI ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:06:23 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS web site suggestions Content-Length: 2931 To: Mr. George Burbage, PRRT&HS Webmaster Dear Mr. Burbage, I am writing to you to offer my services to assist with the PRRT&HS web pages in whatever manner you might find appropriate. As I recall, a request for such assistance was published in a recent issue of the Keystone. In addition, the PRRT&HS web pages have been a subject of recent discussions on the PRR-Talk list run by Jerry Britton. We all feel that these pages have a tremendous potential, however, they have not been updated in over a year, and unless I am mistaken, perhaps not since they were posted in 1996. I, and several others on the PRR-talk list would like to offer the following suggestions for the PRRT&HS pages: 1) A searchable index of the Keystone, including availability and ordering information 2) Information on the Archives, updated frequently as new material is cataloged. This may or may not need to be searchable, but would not be the actual information in the archives, but ratehr a reference as to where to look, whom to ask, etc 3) An updated page of relevant private and commercial PRR related links 4) A modification date on every page consisting of Mo/Da/Yr 5) A timetable of upcoming events. The time and location of the annual meeting as well as chapter meetings should be posted. The entire program of the annual meeting, as well as perhaps a means of registration should be included. I know of several other very competent web authors who would be willing to help implement these ideas. Please let me know how I or they may be of service to the PRRT&HS in this matter, and if you consider it appropriate, I will also gladly re-post your comments to the PRR-talk list. Most Sincerely Yours Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg track Date: Thu, 2 Apr 98 10:15:43 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 2166 On 4/2/98 10:40 AM, Conan Evans (winky@umd5.umd.edu) wrote: >The abutments to this NCRy bridge are still visible from Rt 15. What is the >history behind the scaled Statue of Liberty model that is out in the >middle of the >river. When, who and how did it get out there? The history of the "Harrisburg Statue of Liberty" goes back about 10-12 years. One night, as a joke, some guys went out in a jon boat and installed a statue of liberty that was crafted out of -- of all things -- venetian blinds! They didn't expect it to last long, but it did...for years! It gradually fell apart and everyone wanted to know when it would be fixed! They actually ran a fund raiser in the area for several years and managed -- via the fundraiser and gifts of equipment use, etc. -- to create a permanent statue. They received permission from the railroad (CR) that owns the rights to the abandoned r-o-w and even improved the top surface to which it is attached. It is visible from both sides of the river, and people often stop on the southbound side of 22/322 below Dauphin (just after the RR underpass) to take photos. The "new" statue has been in place for about two years, if I recall. > >In seeing where it resides, I can't help but wonder the trials it faces >every time >the river rises. That portion of the river rarely gets high enough to cover the trestles. I'd bet not since the 1972 flood of Hurricane Agnes. There is more flooding in Harrisburg because of the dam. The area above Rockville is wide and flat...lots of room for the water to spread out rather than rise. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Penn Central startup date (was: Law Letter on the PRR..) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:13:47 -0500 (EST) From: "Ken Reinert" Content-Length: 889 SUVCW ORR wrote: > In a message dated 98-04-01 20:46:50 EST, bubbles@visi.net writes: > << Also this is a reminder (if i'm right) that it was on this day that > Penn Central started....4-1-68 now that WAS a April Fool. >> > Sorry, but you are off by two months. 2-1-68 What nobody mentioned -- not even on the CR list -- was that yesterday was the 22nd anniversary of the startup of Conrail. It's also St. Crispin's Day, if I recall the _Trains_ editorial from way back then. Wow, has it been *that* long? Ken ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 9:12:06 -0600 From: "Laird, Bill (GWise)" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRRT&HS Web Site -Reply Content-Length: 1872 Date: 04/02/1998 03:09 pm (Thursday) From: Bill Laird To: INET.MAIL("PRR-Talk@dsop.com") Subject: [PRR] Re: PRRT&HS Web Site -Reply Brad makes a good point. Th PRRT&HS convention and business meeting is a good venue to address the sorry state of their Web site. Due to distance, or other constraints, not all PRRT&HS members who have a concern about this issue will be able to attend the meeting. I would like to suggest that someone on the prr-talk list who is knowledgeable about the issue and will be attending the meeting volunteer to collect proxys from those of use who will not be attending. A fist full of proxys will add some weight to whoever will champion the cause at the meeting. I, for one, would be happy to send a proxy for my vote to someone who will represent me on this issue. Any takers? Bill Laird Houston, Texas >>> PRR-Talk@dsop.com 04/01/98 07:08pm >>> >Interesting to note how members of the PRR-Talk group get hot about the >PRRT&HS web site inactivity. Well yes, something does need to done. >To change the PRRT&HS's view of the web page, >MEMBERS must seek change and vote on who runs the organization. >The national convention is in several weeks in Lancaster, those who >attend ought to address this issue to the chosen. >There is no better venue to discuss this problem. I >intend to ask about the web page at the business meeting and will have fired >off a letter in advance. So use the opportunity wisely. > >Brad Bower > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS web site suggestions Date: Thu, 2 Apr 98 10:51:29 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1893 On 4/2/98 11:06 AM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: > >1) A searchable index of the Keystone, including availability and ordering >information > >2) Information on the Archives, updated frequently as new material is >cataloged. This may or may not need to be searchable, but would not be the >actual information in the archives, but ratehr a reference as to where to >look, whom to ask, etc My server at "Keystone Crossings" now serves databases. I would be willing to host the society's archive database at no cost to the society if someone else performs the data entry. The data entry task involves placing "tabs" between fields and "carriage returns" at the ends of records. The compiler could easily perform their work in any database and export the results in this format. George: Bruce has seen my work. Take a look at http://prr.dsop.com/databases.html. I have online searchable databases of roster of Cabin Cars, Diesel Locomotives, Electric Locomotives, and past posts to the "PRR-Talk" list. In the future I will be adding Passenger Equipment and Steam Locomotive rosters, as well as PRR reciples and a magazine bibliography. There is no end to the possibilities, just a need for someone with the information at hand to key it into electronic form so I can import it. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] PRR in next MR Date: Thu, 2 Apr 98 11:17:31 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1759 I didn't get it yet, but I was just on MR's web site and saw that the new issue, May, includes: Altoona to Pittsburgh over Horse Shoe Curve: Probably the most famous railroad landmark in North America lies in the hills above Altoona, Pa. It's the Pennsylvania RR's Horse Shoe Curve (now Conrail's) and Doug Taylor's faithful depiction of it forms the heart of his HO Pennsylvana RR. Also featured is the 3-foot gauge East Broad Top. Readers attending the National Model Railroad Association's 1998 national convention will be able to visit this John Armstrong-designed layout in person. I've always been a fan of Tony Koester's layout. It'll be featured again in the June issue: Cover story We get our first look at his new Coal Fork Extension as popular MR columnist and author Tony Koester kicks off a new series on how he planned and built this 13 x 19-foot shelf-style addition to his HO layout. The reader could build the Coal Fork as an addition to his own railroad or as a stand-alone layout in its own right, one that takes advantage of the space above bookshelves and furniture. Tony provides lots of beautiful color photos to get us in the layout-building mood. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Fwd: Spruce Creek bridge article Date: Thu, 2 Apr 98 11:20:02 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1407 This was just posted on the list of the Penn State Model RR Club: ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- Date: 04/02 11:25 AM Received: 04/02 11:18 AM From: Balogh, John, JDB@PSU.EDU Reply-To: L-PSMRRC - Penn State Model Railroad Club, L-PSMRRC@lists.psu.edu Balogh, John, JDB@PSU.EDU To: L-PSMRRC@lists.psu.edu FYI: Coming in April NMRA Bulletin: Page 46 Spruce Creek Learn how to build one of the most unique structures on the railroad - the skewed-arch stone bridge. Bob Beecher has come up with a technique that makes it easy, and shares it here. Although written about an N-scale project, the technique can be applied to any scale. All dimensions are given in scale feet, so large-scaler's need fear not. ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: STEVEGG1 Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 11:34:09 EST Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg area Content-Length: 977 In response to the Statue of Liberty on NCR pier in north of Harrisburg, I think it has been there for over a year, maybe two. Thanks to everyone that answered my Harrisburg questions, but I would like to ask several more. The track on east bank that goes between Rockville bridge and heads north to old Northern central bridge (just that segment) didn't exsist until present day Rockville was built? I got confused when it was said PC built wye off of CV bridge. They did this on west end? One last question, what kind of damage did Shock Mill bridge have from flood? Thanks again to all for help on this. Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 11:39:15 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] Fess Up Time! Content-Length: 724 SUVCW ORR wrote: > > I > << By the way what the heck does SPF stand for >> > > Slobbering Pennsy Fanatic > > It started long ago as a slam on Pennsy fans. the SPFs decided to wear it as > a "Red Badge of Courage" and frequently and endearingly refer to themselves > as SPFs. > Or, some say it means "Slobbering Pennsy Freak." :-) ? Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:41:07 -0600 (CST) From: dsdawdy@mcs.com (Daniel S. Dawdy) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Web Site Suggestions Content-Length: 1210 Hi: >3) E-Commerce. Yes, this requires some setup. For those of us who are >Internet-savvy (all of us reading this), when we want something, "we want >it now". I don't want to get into the middle of this as it's really none of my business, however, as the provider and host for the site I will say that we do offer a secure server for this. We also offer the normal mail forwarding and POP mail. I have also forwarded your Email on to George as I don't think the AOL address is good anymore. Although I don't feel I can discuss the site itself, I would be happy to discuss the features we can help provide. Regards, Daniel Dawdy - Ribbon Rail Productions - World Wide Web Publishing 319 N. Naperville Road, Suite 348 Bolingbrook, IL 60490 Voice 630.969.7837 - Data 630.960.3046 - dsdawdy@mcs.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:45:37 -0600 (CST) From: dsdawdy@mcs.com (Daniel S. Dawdy) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS web site suggestions Content-Length: 1037 >There is no end to the possibilities, just a need for someone with the >information at hand to key it into electronic form so I can import it. One thing to remember is, how much information do you want to give away? Between a full website and this group, many will be able to get their questions answered without needing to join. There is always that balance of what the official web site should have... just enough to peak interest without giving away the store. Dan - Ribbon Rail Productions - World Wide Web Publishing 319 N. Naperville Road, Suite 348 Bolingbrook, IL 60490 Voice 630.969.7837 - Data 630.960.3046 - dsdawdy@mcs.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: carl.haslett@lmco.com Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 12:51:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR in next MR Content-Length: 1351 Just received my MR last night. The Altoona to Pittsburgh over Horse Shoe Curve layout and article are great. As a boy, I saw many a Disney movie in that Capitol Theater that is prominently featured in the downtown section of the layout. And I recognized the Penn-Alto Hotel before I got to the pix with the roof sign! Excellent modeling work by Doug Taylor. And kudos to John Armstrong also for the design. Its got Altoona more or less at the center, with Tyrone and the "Vail wye", Spruce Creek, EBT narrowgauge interchange at Huntingdon to the east and Horseshoe Curve, Gallitzin, Cresson, and Pittsburg to the west. A unique aspect to me about this design is the multi levels of narrow staging, that still enter/exit from the same area of the layout - as opposed to one level that is twice as wide and may be harder to reach or maintain. Excellent idea - almost like having the staged trains sitting on display shelves when not operating out on the layout! Carl Haslett ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:06:37 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg area Content-Length: 1304 On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, STEVEGG1 wrote: > In response to the Statue of Liberty on NCR pier in north of Harrisburg, I > think it has been there for over a year, maybe two. Thanks to everyone that > answered my Harrisburg questions, but I would like to ask several more. The > track on east bank that goes between Rockville bridge and heads north to old > Northern central bridge (just that segment) didn't exsist until present day > Rockville was built? I got confused when it was said PC built wye off of CV > bridge. They did this on west end? One last question, what kind of damage did > Shock Mill bridge have from flood? on the east end of the CV bridge, a leg of track was built connection the bridge to the south, e.g. eastbound line to Royalton and beyond. several spans of the Shocks Mills Bridge were washed away and as I recall from some book put out by state of PA on 1972 flooding were replaced by steel girders -D ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg area Date: Thu, 2 Apr 98 13:27:25 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 3231 On 4/2/98 12:34 PM, STEVEGG1 (STEVEGG1@aol.com) wrote: >In response to the Statue of Liberty on NCR pier in north of Harrisburg, I >think it has been there for over a year, maybe two. Thanks to everyone that >answered my Harrisburg questions, but I would like to ask several more. The >track on east bank that goes between Rockville bridge and heads north to old >Northern central bridge (just that segment) didn't exsist until present day >Rockville was built? That's correct. The NCR came up the west side and crossed at Marysville to a point above Dauphin. The PRR came up the east side and crossed at Rockville below Dauphin. There were about three miles without tracks. When the "joint" bridge was built, the remaining trackage on the east side was built to facilitate the NCRy. >I got confused when it was said PC built wye off of CV >bridge. They did this on west end? Dan (Cupper) must've been "somewhat" mistaken as to why the wye (no pun intended) was put in. I do have early track charts of the east end that do not show the wye, so it indeed could have been added circa 1972. There was -- and is -- a full wye at the east end. At the west end, the tracks went straight across the river and on to Carlisle. The NCRy came up along the west side of the river and had a diamond grade crossing with the CV. This was the site of LEMO tower. The only interface from the bridge to the NCRy line was from the bridge towards the south...a single curved track on a bridge of its own. north, to Enola / || ========================CV=================== harrisburg lemo || / || / || / ||/ south, NCRy to Baltimore Dan said the wye was put in to re-route trains from the Royalton Branch across the CV bridge to reach Enola. Yes, the wye would allow the trains to get from the Royalton Branch onto the CV bridge, but then they'd have to proceed on the CV into Lemoyne and back up several miles into Enola! I doubt they did this...they would have proceeded north on the Royalton Branch, crossed the Rockville Bridge, then come back down the west side. No backing! I believe the wye was added at the east end solely for turning trains. IMHO, sorry Dan. Meanwhile the Atglen & Susquehanna ran parallel to the NCRy, closer to the river, and 30+ feet lower. The CV bridge crosses over the A&S. The A&S and the NCRy met and interlocked about two miles north, just below Enola. >One last question, what kind of damage did >Shock Mill bridge have from flood? During the Agnes 1972 flood, a pier in the center washed away, taking two spans with it. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:31:36 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Fwd: [PRR] Penn Central startup date (was: Law Letter on the Content-Length: 1327

---Ken Reinert wrote: > > SUVCW ORR wrote: > > In a message dated 98-04-01 20:46:50 EST, bubbles@visi.net writes: > > << Also this is a reminder (if i'm right) that it was on this day that > > Penn Central started....4-1-68 now that WAS a April Fool. >> > > Sorry, but you are off by two months. 2-1-68 > > What nobody mentioned -- not even on the CR list -- was that yesterday > was the 22nd anniversary of the startup of Conrail. > > It's also St. Crispin's Day, if I recall the _Trains_ editorial from > way back then. Wow, has it been *that* long? > > Ken

According to the Church of England, St. Crispin's Day is 25th October. See www.ely.anglican.org/~sjk/lit2000/cal/index.htm

Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob

DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at Yahoo! Mail.
------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR in next MR From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 98 13:25:38 -0500 Content-Length: 779 I didn't get it yet, but I was just on MR's web site and saw that the new issue, May, includes: Altoona to Pittsburgh over Horse Shoe Curve: ======== Did you also notice that Sunshine now has models of X37, X37a, nd X37b box cars!! Now, when will C&BT release their X29b's and d's?? :-)) I may yet have an accurate fleet of PRR transition era freight cars (may all my Athearns RIP). regards Andy Miller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR flyovers Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:48:36 -0500 (EST) From: "Ken Reinert" Content-Length: 1513 PRRMAN wrote: > In a message dated 98-03-22 23:20:51 EST, kreinert@erols.com writes: > << er, lessee, the East River tubes is > New York... and I think I'm forgetting something here... >> > > There was (still is!) a place in the East River tubes where > Tracks 2 and 3 crossed over one another while both were > underground. Not a "flyover" in the purest sense, but it > confirms your statement about unequalled engineering. That's *exactly* the feature I was thinking about -- anybody can punch a few tunnels through the ground :-) but what outfit besides the PRR would go to the trouble of doing something like this in order to get trains to their respective proper places _without a conflict_? (Disregard the present day routing at Harold; the original design served two purposes: move PRR trains into/out of Sunnyside Yard, and move LIRR trains -- running trains over Hell Gate was not a major consideration in the design of the Penn Station complex.) The NYC subway system is the only other rail operation that I can think of offhand that might parallel the PRR as far as the number and scope of engineering marvels. Ken ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Richard F. Makse" Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:22:58 -0500 Content-Length: 780 Please. Let's stop all this nonsense. If you are reading this, what does it matter? If you are visiting this and Mark's site (and Bruce's site, et al), what does it matter? Is a group made up of initials? The only initials that count are PRR and I frankly don't care who provides it. This is the Internet. If they (PRRT&HS) don't want to play, then erase your shortcuts. But stop the blather. Dick Makse ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:43:15 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg area Content-Length: 1006 > Dan said the wye was put in to re-route trains from the Royalton Branch > across the CV bridge to reach Enola. Yes, the wye would allow the trains > to get from the Royalton Branch onto the CV bridge, but then they'd have > to proceed on the CV into Lemoyne and back up several miles into Enola! I > doubt they did this...they would have proceeded north on the Royalton > Branch, crossed the Rockville Bridge, then come back down the west side. > No backing! An old Railpace (i'll get a cite tonight) agrees with Dan; The wye leg at the east end of the CV bridge was added in 1972 after the Shocks Mills Bridge failure -D ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 02 Apr 98 15:45:33 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: [PRR] The Marysville Statue of Liberty Content-Length: 622 >One night, as a joke, some guys went out in a jon boat and >installed a statue of liberty that was crafted out of -- of all things -- >venetian blinds! Not only is the universe stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we *can* imagine. -- Doug Drew ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 16:02:05 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Hunter" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR T&HS annual meeting Content-Length: 522 Dear Jerry, I assume you're going to Lancaster for the meeting. How will we recognize you there? Could you add PRR-Talk under your name on your badge? Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 16:04:14 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Hunter" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRRT&HS Web Site -Reply Content-Length: 483 To Whomever, You've got my proxy, even though I'll be at the meeting. Something must be done about the web site. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: [PRR] Cyber chapter (proposed) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 17:03:38 EST Content-Length: 774 Gents: You'll recall the cyber chapter proposal. There's stuff about it both on Jerry's site and on mine. Do y'all still want to do this?? I want to have some feedback between now and the end of the month (PRRTHS convention), before I make a fool of myself proposing the thing, only to have nothing happen between now and this time NEXT year. Speak up and be prepared to volunteer for tasks. -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: [PRR] Law Letter on the PRR... (fwd) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 17:12:07 EST Content-Length: 899 > Hmmmm i don't know about you folks,but i'm not TOO worried about the letter > Jerry got...rememeber today is 4-1-98... > 4-1-98...get it? Sounds more like Jerry is having some fun.... > > Also this is a reminder (if i'm right) that it was on this day that > Penn Central started....4-1-68 now that WAS a April Fool. > > Til Later > Hank Mummert Hank et al., PC started on _Feb_ first. It's Conrail that started in April 1. -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg SoL (Statue of Liberty :-) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 17:18:44 EST Content-Length: 882 > The history of the "Harrisburg Statue of Liberty" goes back about 10-12 > years. One night, as a joke, some guys went out in a jon boat and > installed a statue of liberty that was crafted out of -- of all things -- > venetian blinds! It appeared in Harrisburg between 1985 and 1987. I was living in Hershey at the time and driving 22-322 and 11-15 to Geisinger Medical Center every week for many months. As I recall much rubbernecking resulted from its initial appearance, as well as several wrecks. -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "N Campbell" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR in next MR Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:24:30 -0500 Content-Length: 1238 On April 2 1998 Andy wrote >Did you also notice that Sunshine now has models of X37, X37a, nd X37b box >cars!! Now, when will C&BT release their X29b's and d's?? :-)) I may yet >have an accurate fleet of PRR transition era freight cars (may all my Athearns >RIP). Andy and all, I spoke to the people at C&BT Shops this week and he reports that the X29b molds are being fine tuned . The kits should be ready sometime this summer. On the same line the 50 ft.cars that Branchline Trains have been talking about for the past year have had test shots done and we could have them in the May-June time frame.This car will be a dead ringer for the X44a cars. You are right Andy we may soon have a correct fleet of house cars to ride behind all those great engines that have come out in the past few years. Travel by Rail Neil Campbell ncamp@iname.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "N Campbell" Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Meeting Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:38:14 -0500 Content-Length: 1975 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BD5E66.7F1B1B80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry and group, After reading the scheudel for the Lancaster meeting it looks as if = there is time on Friday afternoon when any Talk group members could get = together informally so we could do a face to face meet. We could discuss = cyber chapter and PRRMO topics.=20 Any Takers Neil Campbell ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BD5E66.7F1B1B80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jerry and group,
 
    After reading the = scheudel=20 for the Lancaster meeting it looks as if there is time on Friday = afternoon when=20 any Talk group members could get together informally so we could do a = face to=20 face meet. We could discuss cyber chapter  and PRRMO topics. =
 
    Any = Takers
Neil = Campbell
------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BD5E66.7F1B1B80-- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 20:05:08 -0500 (EST) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] Clearances and Hudson tunnels Content-Length: 2496 Hi gang... All this talk about the tunnels reminded me of something my dad told me this week. This might shed some light on clearances. As some of you know, Amtrak is or has placed an order with Bombadier for the new High Speed NEC cars for service between Boston and Washington. Since dad works the former PRR NEC section he knows about this. Dad was telling me this to show me how DUMB Amtrak can be. He said the new cars can only use the South tunnel(east bound) into and out of New York as the North tunnel (west bound) clearances are too tight... Theres not a problem with the height...its the width.... The tunnels have knee walls and the knee walls in the North tunnel are tighter than the South tunnel... Apparently Amtrak placed their order before even checking the clearances. This will severely place restictions on their operations and such... ( And this is for the next generation that was supposed to replace conventional trains?) they can't all run through the South tunnel...sheesh... One question i have is this... I thought the two tunnels were identical...i guess not...unless the were modified later... Dad said the knee wall is also a walkway for the tunnel..(makes sense since when they were built there was third rail at track level then and they probably wanted a way for employees to keep from touching it by accident in the dark) (maybe a late design change then) Does anyone know why there is a difference between the two? Dad doubts Amtrak will modify the North tunnel....He said Amtrak will probably operate with the problem...since the order has started and it would be costly to scrap anything already started and/or rebuild cars. Also these same cars were to be able to tilt 8 degrees...for curves... guess what...they will only tilt 4 degrees...this will cut down on there speed...so they already have two things against them already and they are'nt even near being in service yet.... Til Later Hank Mummert ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Knepper" Subject: Re: [PRR] Cyber chapter (proposed) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 20:19:56 -0500 Content-Length: 2043 Mark, I personally think that the cyber chapter is a good idea who's time has come.......for those members that are way out in the country, and can not get to meetings. But I also think that there should be dues.......We should all pay towards getting the archives logged and usable. And I would hate to think what would happen if the wrong person get there fingers on that material..........It needs professional handling, and after seeing the amount of work ahead !!!! it will be some time before we see some of that material. Mark, I'll assist you in any way that I can. Bill Knepper Northern Central Chapter Member PRRT&HS York County Rail/Trail Authority New Freedom Station Project ---------- > From: Mark D Bej > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Cyber chapter (proposed) > Date: Thursday, April 02, 1998 5:03 PM > > > Gents: > > You'll recall the cyber chapter proposal. There's stuff about it both > on Jerry's site and on mine. > > Do y'all still want to do this?? I want to have some feedback between > now and the end of the month (PRRTHS convention), before I make a fool > of myself proposing the thing, only to have nothing happen between now > and this time NEXT year. > > Speak up and be prepared to volunteer for tasks. > > -- > Mark > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 21:52:49 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS web site suggestions Content-Length: 1473 In a message dated 4/2/98 1:53:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, dsdawdy@mcs.com writes: << One thing to remember is, how much information do you want to give away? Between a full website and this group, many will be able to get their questions answered without needing to join. There is always that balance of what the official web site should have... just enough to peak interest without giving away the store. >> the problem is that too many people felt this ingormation was too dear that a lott of people have forgotten it is important.If serious modelers have to labor for years to discern that A. the N6b was the most common cabin car during the late 1950s or B.that the amount of tracks west of Pittsburgh was nearly equal to that east of Pittsburgh, one doesn't have to think long about what will happen -- AND HAS happened --a lot fewer people will choose to model the Pennsy. The value of a modeler's association is not how many secrets can be squirreled away but in the joy and comraderie of its members as they learn more about it, especiallu a fallen flag like the Pennsy. Tom V. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: [PRR] Doug Taylor's PRR/EBT Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:52:20 -0600 Content-Length: 655 There has been some mention of the MR May issue article on Doug Taylor's layout. He seems to have flooded the market; he also has a good article in the May Railmodel Journal which concentrates more on the EBT part of it. There are a good number of decent photos and a trackplan. Steve Hoxie ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR Logo From: ptrmgtsvc@juno.com (Michael E. Allen) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 00:52:47 EST Content-Length: 3540 I was suckered enough yesterday to start researching the law firm et c. because my own company logo is an unabashed knockoff of the PRR logo. [I could just see the lady who does our copyright work licking her lips in anticipation of her fees] The logo, type faces and formating I use on my business cards and stationary is very close to some of the some of those the PRR used historically. I had a copyright lawyer make sure we weren't stepping on anybody's toes. When my assistant saw the first couple messages she showed them to me. I had her check Martindale's [for those of you not familiar with it, Martindale and Hubble is the 'super Yellow Pages' of the legal profession] for the firm or any of its principles. She also called the Norfolk Bar Association. We came up with close to zip. I emailed our copyright lawyer to warn her, sent the messages, and 10 minutes later the phone rang... "Michael, what's today's date?" She had caught the error in the name of the insurance company [i missed it] and reminded me that I should have seen through it right away because they were trying to enforce a copyright on a straight line! Gentlemen, you had me going. Next year keep looking over your shoulders. There are a couple of misconceptions I noticed in the discussion which I want to comment on. I'm speaking first hand on this since we worked with PC on asset disposition for seven years starting in 1974. 1. Conrail is not the successor in due course to the Pennsylvania Railroad. They did not purchase or otherwise acquire the business of the Penn Central Corporation et alia. They acquired some of the physical assets [track, power, cars, et c] and the operating rights. This is the reason that CR went into a painting frenzy putting a little CR on everything. PC continued its corporate existance. The surviving corporation became American Premier Underwriters 2. PC's historic corporate records were in a total shambles [remember they even auctioned some of them off to raise cash]. As examples they were paying property taxes on Exchange Place as a funtional terminal as late as 1980 and actually tried to sell both the Long Bridge in DC and some Central Vermont right-of-way on quit claims based on not knowing they didn't own it. That being the case it is entirely possible that sombody did acquire the rights and could legitimately create such a problem. What I believe was actually decided some years ago was that 1. the gentleman peddling the logo did not hold the rights he was trying to peddle; and 2, that APU, as the corporate sucessor to PC PRR et c., did not have the standing to enforce the rights to the logo since the particular forms in question were public domain. Rgds MEA ______________________________ PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY PTRMgtSvc@Juno.com Management Services Telephone 609-683-0356 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Eichhorn Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 02:32:10 EST Subject: [PRR] Timonium Show, April 4&5 Content-Length: 529 Hi Gang, Anyone plan on attending the Timonium Show? I spent 2 days there in the fall and still didn't get to see it all. Maybe find a DGLE E7B, I'll be lookin'. George ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Knepper" Subject: Re: [PRR] Timonium Show, April 4&5 Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 06:05:57 -0500 Content-Length: 1308 Yes Sir, I'll be working a stand at the show with a friend of mine........Look for the table selling "Green " Northern Central Railroad hats..........Proceeds to the New Freedom Station Fund......... See Ya There.... Bill Knepper ---------- > From: Eichhorn > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Timonium Show, April 4&5 > Date: Friday, April 03, 1998 2:32 AM > > Hi Gang, > Anyone plan on attending the Timonium Show? > I spent 2 days there in the fall and still didn't get > to see it all. Maybe find a DGLE E7B, I'll be lookin'. > > George > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Train engines picture Date: Fri, 3 Apr 98 06:26:38 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1503 Can you help ID a photo? The URL is http://prr.dsop.com/question/TRAINS2.JPG Mike Bezilla: Could this be Bellefonte Central? Let me know, thanks. ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- ...I have an old postcard photo I found among photos of my late grandfather, of two train engines pulled beside each other, frontal view, the train #'s are 4068 and 1664, there is about 25 individuals posing with these trains for the picture. I assume it was taken somewhere in central Pa as my grandfather's ancestors came from Mckean Co, Lycoming Co. Centre Co, Northumberland Co. and Bradford Co. Pa. I am doing our family ancestry and have not found anyone on my grandfather's side of the family associated with railroads. Thought you may be able to help me ID the engines, the RR, the place, date - any info would be appreciated... ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:31:49 -0500 From: mxb13@psu.edu (Michael Bezilla) Subject: Re: [PRR] Train engines picture Content-Length: 1074 >Can you help ID a photo? > >The URL is http://prr.dsop.com/question/TRAINS2.JPG > >Mike Bezilla: Could this be Bellefonte Central? >train #'s are 4068 and 1664 I assume it was taken somewhere in >central Pa as >my >grandfather's ancestors came from Mckean Co, Lycoming Co. Centre Co, >Northumberland Co. and Bradford Co. Pa. Not BFC, even without looking at the photo. BFC steam engines never went higher than 2 digits. The high numbers indicate, I suspect, a big road--PRR, the water level route, BR&P, DL&W, Erie something like that. Now, are these engines Belpaire or radial stay? I can't tell for sure, tho 4068 might be Belpaire. And how about that water tower? Is that a clue? Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 07:36:31 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR T&HS annual meeting Content-Length: 1590 >Dear Jerry, > > I assume you're going to Lancaster for the meeting. How will we >recognize you there? Could you add PRR-Talk under your name on your >badge? > > Jim I am looking at how to print small stickers that say PRRMO or PRR-Talk, which could then be stuck on name badges, to help us identify each other at the meeting. This is done all the time at the NMRA meetings Happy rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Stephen R. Sejda" Subject: Re: [PRR] Law Letter on the PRR... Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:36:41 -0500 Content-Length: 646 Wasn't it Conrail that had April 1 (4/1/76) birthday? Steve Sejda ---------- > << Also this is a reminder (if i'm right) that it was on this day that > Penn Central started....4-1-68 now that WAS a April Fool. >> > Sorry, but you are off by two months. 2-1-68 > > Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Good News on Tape From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 98 08:38:32 -0500 Content-Length: 816 For Jerry (and all others concerned), I stopped by at Charrette in Woburn Mass last night on my way to the North Shore Club. They do still stock 1/64 tape from Lettraset. It is not available in all types, only glossy. For masking purposes - who cares; but its absence in the matte finish lines may be why the clerk told you it was no longer available. It even comes in 6 colors - again - who cares! So let the striping begin! regards, Andy Miller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:18:28 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Bowser goofed AGAIN (T-1) Content-Length: 4083 Hi all, I received my Bowser T-1 a couple of days ago (thanks Joe Zappa/Liberty) - WOW what an improvement over the old one! The boiler casting appears to be much closer to the prototype design, with very appropriate contours, scale rivets, appropraite details (recessed whistle, single oval stack...) etc. The tender is also very clean as it is now a casting rather that a wrapper. HOWEVER, as best I can tell, the tender represents the 1945 as built tender with shrouding all the way to the rear. As early as 1946, some of this shrouding was removed, and the back 1/3 was completely removed by the late 40's. The locomotive represents a very late 1940's or later version for the reasons discussed earlier. Interestingly, the previous tender model was more accurate for the loco depicted! Also, I assume in order to make casting easier, the shrouding is represented by a solid chunk of metal, obscuring the locations of the tender water fill hatches and the drains. So it appears that Bowser is intent on maintaining their policy of always providing the wrong tender with a locomotive!!!!! (Is this like the Amish quilters? I'm told they always include a mistake in a quilt, because only god is perfect) Some quick ideas on Bashing the Bowser T-1 1) Mill the shrouding down to the back deck and: a) model an appropriate later version of the tender (add hatches, drains, etc) b) add brass sheets back as appropriate shrouding for the earliest tender, and add the appropropriate details such as hatches, drains etc. 2) Earlier (porthole {portjole?}) versions of the locomotive: The surgery required for the pilot is pretty serious, but might actually be performed with two straight cuts at 90 degress from each other. Fabrication of the new pilot would be a challenge. Obviously, a casting would be a GREAT addition! 3) Remotoring: Piece of cake! At least two approaches are possible a) Replace Bowser motor with a can motor (just use the same worm gear) This requires a new motor mount to be bent from sheet brass - pretty easy really...Also, consider at this point creating a SEPERATE mount for the bolier attachment, perhaps even one that detaches from the bottom rather than the top of the boiler - fill the holes on the boiler top. b) Use gear towers - this will better hide that big ugle worm gear, but requires appropriate gears, and is more complex. This will also require newe motor mounts to be fabricated. c) Wait for Alco Models to produce a Helix Humper. 4) Rigidizing (that's a word????) the frame: Piece of cake!!! Add a piece of sheet brass, using the last two holes on the front frame and drill two holes on the rear frame - screw brass to each frame - four points of attachment make it rigid! Just be careful not to affect the mounting of the rear cylinders or the motors. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kevin Tully" Subject: [PRR] (Modeling)Lube Plates Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 06:20:25 PST Content-Length: 772 Does anyone know the correct lube plates to be used on Greenville 15 panel 100 ton hoppers (not necessarily PRR)? Kevin J. Tully C.E.O. FOXBURG, MT. JEWETT & CORYDON RAILROAD Co. "The Allegheny Route" A Division Of The PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD CORP. http://www.aimsinc.com/fm&c/ ICQ: 10442115 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] BP20 Sharks / Rails Northeast Date: Fri, 3 Apr 98 10:11:43 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1119 I had published on "Keystone Crossings" several weeks ago the painting and lettering diagrams for BP20 Passenger Sharks, taken from "Pennsy Journal". However, that issue included only schemes 2-4, stating that scheme 1 had previously been published in "Rails Northeast". I have about half of the "Rails Northeast" issues, but not the one with the original Shark diagram in it. Would those with complete collections please look for it. I need to borrow one to scan at high resolution in order to create the decal masters for Liberty Model Productions. Thank you. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser goofed AGAIN (T-1) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 98 10:24:41 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 2231 On 4/3/98 10:18 AM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: >Some quick ideas on Bashing the Bowser T-1 > >1) Mill the shrouding down to the back deck and: > a) model an appropriate later version of the tender (add hatches, >drains, etc) > b) add brass sheets back as appropriate shrouding for the earliest >tender, and add the appropropriate details such as hatches, drains etc. > >2) Earlier (porthole {portjole?}) versions of the locomotive: The surgery >required for the pilot is pretty serious, but might actually be performed >with two straight cuts at 90 degress from each other. Fabrication of the >new pilot would be a challenge. Obviously, a casting would be a GREAT >addition! > >3) Remotoring: Piece of cake! At least two approaches are possible > a) Replace Bowser motor with a can motor (just use the same worm >gear) This requires a new motor mount to be bent from sheet brass - pretty >easy really...Also, consider at this point creating a SEPERATE mount for >the bolier attachment, perhaps even one that detaches from the bottom >rather than the top of the boiler - fill the holes on the boiler top. > b) Use gear towers - this will better hide that big ugle worm >gear, but requires appropriate gears, and is more complex. This will also >require newe motor mounts to be fabricated. > c) Wait for Alco Models to produce a Helix Humper. > Perhaps Joe (Liberty Model Productions) would consider offering this service: He orders the Bowser for you and adds in the custom parts/does the work/etc. I'm confident that if someone creates a master for the pilot he'd be willing to manufacture it for sale. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Michael DiMaio" Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 10:55:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser goofed AGAIN (T-1) Content-Length: 804 Bruce, you are quite right. You may have seen my comments about the super detailing of the tender earlier this week. Remember also the additional weight of the tender may serve to make up for the loss of weight in the loco itself. Worse comes to worse, like any bowser loco, the whole loco would make a great weight for fishing or scuba diving! Michael DiMaio, Ph.D. Department of Philosophy Salve Regina University Newport, RI 02920 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Good News on Tape From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 98 11:03:05 -0500 Content-Length: 1326 Charrette in Woburn is (781) 935-9657. I did not think to ask them for their part numbers, sorry. regards, Andy Miller =========== On 4/3/98 9:38 AM, Andrew S. Miller (asmiller@mail11.mitre.org) wrote: >I stopped by at Charrette in Woburn Mass last night on my way to the North >Shore Club. They do still stock 1/64 tape from Lettraset. It is not >available >in all types, only glossy. For masking purposes - who cares; but its >absence in >the matte finish lines may be why the clerk told you it was no longer >available. It even comes in 6 colors - again - who cares! So let the >striping >begin! To make it much easier for us, would you please post to the list their telephone number (I do have a catalog, somewhere) and part numbers. Thanks a bunch! - --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Red Caboose X29 REA's Date: Fri, 3 Apr 98 12:07:53 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 917 Red Caboose PRR X29's lettered for Railway Express Agency are currently slated for June 1 release. Any reason to believe these won't be highly accurate? I want to order by 12 pack and don't want to be stuck with non-proto kits. I believe the regular X-29's are highly praised, so the unit itself shouldn't be a problem. Question will be paint/lettering for PRR REA. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] N6B in HO? Date: Fri, 3 Apr 98 13:03:44 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 794 Anyone make a good N6B Cabin in HO scale? Bowser offers the N5, N5C; Liberty will have their N8. I checked the Cabin Car database and there were several N6B's in the Chesapeake Region assigned to trains bound for York, Pa., which I am modeling. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Red Caboose X29 REA's Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 13:11:41 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 2008 On 3 Apr, Jerry_Britton wrote: > Red Caboose PRR X29's lettered for Railway Express Agency are currently > slated for June 1 release. > > Any reason to believe these won't be highly accurate? The express X29s had air and steam lines, vertical end grabs, and different trucks than the freight versions. I don't know if RC added these to the kit, or if you have to do that yourself, or even if you care enough to want to go to that level of detail. I'm still thinking whether or not to do that for the N Scale version from Fine N Scale. See The Keystone, Summer 1988 (V21#2) for photos. > I want to order by 12 pack and don't want to be stuck with non-proto > kits. I believe the regular X-29's are highly praised, so the unit itself > shouldn't be a problem. Question will be paint/lettering for PRR REA. The only lettering change from the usual Circle Keystone X29 lettering is the addition of "RAILWAY EXPRESS/AGENCY" centered to the right of the door, and the circle keystone itself is raised about a foot. The road numbers are four digits, but that's easy. Even if RC messed up, Microscale makes REA decals that (I think) could be used. See http://www.microscale.com/Decal_Sheets/871010.html NorthEast decals makes a PRR boxcar sheet that has the REA lettering (although it lacks dimensional and class data) in N; I don't know if they do HO as well. Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Stephen R. Sejda" Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabins in Passenger Service - Need Info Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:15:47 -0500 Content-Length: 1524 Hi Jerry, >From the recently published 1954 Passenger Equipment Roster: 7 cars - Class N5 Crew Express Cars #'s 5001, 5010, 5011, 5012, 5013, 5015, 5018. All are shown w/ class 2A-F5 freight trucks. I'm assuming that the holes in the number series are cabins that were retired Hope this helps. Steve Sejda ---------- > > As previously stated, the source of data for the cabin car database was a > freight department report circa 1957. It DOES NOT include cabins assigned > to passenger service. > > I believe there was an issue of "The Keystone" in 1996 that featured > Cabins in Passenger Service. Can someone please look and see if there is > a roster? If so, could someone either 1) key in the info for me; 2) > photocopy it and mail it to me; or 3) photocopy and FAX it to me...so I > can add this info to the database. > > I joined the PRRT&HS in early 1997 and have not yet bought the back > issues from 1996. Thanks. > > --------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com > Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Red Caboose X29 REA's From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 98 13:37:11 -0500 Content-Length: 1527 Jerry, All their previous paint/letter jobs have been accurate. I don't know why they should drop the ball on this one. But if they do, you can always repaint them. It doesn't even need tape masked striping ;-) regards Andy Miller ============ Red Caboose PRR X29's lettered for Railway Express Agency are currently slated for June 1 release. Any reason to believe these won't be highly accurate? I want to order by 12 pack and don't want to be stuck with non-proto kits. I believe the regular X-29's are highly praised, so the unit itself shouldn't be a problem. Question will be paint/lettering for PRR REA. - --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] N6B in HO? From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 98 13:40:58 -0500 Content-Length: 1557 Jerry, There was a pretty good one available from one of the cheap toy train makers (LifeLike, I think). Some parts, like the steps had to be replaced with available castings, and of course they came painted for every conceivable road but PRR, as long as it was garish. But with very little effort it turned into a very nice N6b - and it was cheap (and inexpensive). regards Andy Miller =========== Anyone make a good N6B Cabin in HO scale? Bowser offers the N5, N5C; Liberty will have their N8. I checked the Cabin Car database and there were several N6B's in the Chesapeake Region assigned to trains bound for York, Pa., which I am modeling. - --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] P2K E7's in DGLE Date: Fri, 3 Apr 98 14:34:42 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 870 I am waiting for confirmation, but I may have a source for P2K E7's in DGLE...including B units. Is there anyone still looking? If so, what units/road #'s do you need? Price would likely be $75 for A's and $40 for B's. This is higher than they have been in the past, but supplies on this run have been extremely short. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:45:53 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] N6B in HO? Content-Length: 479 Gloor Craft names the N6b in HO, N, and O and also offers an N6a and an ND/NDa in HO. All are listed in Walther's. Tom V. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:39:52 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] N6B in HO? Content-Length: 2538 >Anyone make a good N6B Cabin in HO scale? Jerry, It depends on whether you want RTR or a kit. Gloor Craft makes excellent kits of the N6b (also the N6a and the ND). Availability can be a problem sometimes. Tom V. and I have had a long running conversation as we both built one. The kit arrives as a pile of lumber and parts. I always love a kit that can double as a flat car load !!! I think mine looks fantastic (I'm not bragging about my skills, but the quality of the kit). I can provide lots of building hints. Kits cost about $14 at Standard Hobby, and $25 at Walthers. Railworks recently improted a batch of cabins including the N6b with center and offset cupola. Retail is running $130-$160 I think. Gloor Craft parts and kits for PRR cabins as of 4/3/98 (Y=in stock, N=not in stock) 288 869 Caboose step PRR Style 4/ 3.25 Y 288 870 Smoke jack PRR style 2/ 2.25 Y 288 871 Marker light PRR style 4/ 2.25 Y 288 872 Chimney short 2/ 2.25 Y 288 873 Window 2-pane large 3/ 2.25 Y 288 886 Cabin door PRR 2/ 2.25 Y 288 887 Cabin window PRR 2.25 N Unknown 288 893 Step PRR ND type 3.25 Y 288 894 Wheel housing PRR ND 4/ 2.25 Y 288 3100 Caboose PRR class N6A 24.95 Y 288 3101 Caboose PR class N6B 24.95 N Unknown 288 3104 4WH wood caboose PRR ND4 24.95 N Unknown Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] P2K E7 DGLE Source Indeed Found!!! Date: Fri, 3 Apr 98 15:16:49 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1345 I have indeed found a source for Proto 2000 E7's in PRR DGLE (Brunswick Green). The price is excessive, due to the shortage of this run, but both A and B units are still available. A units: #5841A or #5848A, list $90, available for $75 B units: #5844B or #5853B, list $45, available for $40 I will be placing the order first thing on Saturday, April 4 (tomorrow), so e-mail me your order tonight if you want any. Shipping from me to you will be $5, regardless of quantities, and only in the continental U.S. I will not ship elsewhere! Pennsylvania destinations must add 6% sales tax (not including shipping.) Payment prior to shipping (from me to you) will be required, by check payable to "Desktop Solutions" and mailed to same at P.O. Box 189, #191; Etters PA 17319-0189. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Liberty" Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser goofed AGAIN (T-1) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:57:38 -0500 Content-Length: 3201 Jerry and all, As you all know, I am quite busy right now with several major projects. However, should one of you fine craftsmen be willing to create and submit a master for the conversions (below) I would be most anxious to produce it, AND pay a royalty on each set sold ! Any takers ?? Joe Zappa, Liberty Model Productions ---------- > From: Jerry_Britton > To: PRR-Talk > Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser goofed AGAIN (T-1) > Date: Friday, April 03, 1998 9:24 AM > > On 4/3/98 10:18 AM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: > > >Some quick ideas on Bashing the Bowser T-1 > > > >1) Mill the shrouding down to the back deck and: > > a) model an appropriate later version of the tender (add hatches, > >drains, etc) > > b) add brass sheets back as appropriate shrouding for the earliest > >tender, and add the appropropriate details such as hatches, drains etc. > > > >2) Earlier (porthole {portjole?}) versions of the locomotive: The surgery > >required for the pilot is pretty serious, but might actually be performed > >with two straight cuts at 90 degress from each other. Fabrication of the > >new pilot would be a challenge. Obviously, a casting would be a GREAT > >addition! > > > >3) Remotoring: Piece of cake! At least two approaches are possible > > a) Replace Bowser motor with a can motor (just use the same worm > >gear) This requires a new motor mount to be bent from sheet brass - pretty > >easy really...Also, consider at this point creating a SEPERATE mount for > >the bolier attachment, perhaps even one that detaches from the bottom > >rather than the top of the boiler - fill the holes on the boiler top. > > b) Use gear towers - this will better hide that big ugle worm > >gear, but requires appropriate gears, and is more complex. This will also > >require newe motor mounts to be fabricated. > > c) Wait for Alco Models to produce a Helix Humper. > > > Perhaps Joe (Liberty Model Productions) would consider offering this > service: He orders the Bowser for you and adds in the custom parts/does > the work/etc. > > I'm confident that if someone creates a master for the pilot he'd be > willing to manufacture it for sale. > > --------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com > Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 12:17:56 -0800 From: Roger Elliott Subject: [PRR] Plans for #3768 K-4 streamliner Content-Length: 697 Hi Folks, I am starting to figure out ways and means to scratchbuild the K-4 streamliner #3768. I've got some drawings that show the side of the engine but I could use help in finding other drawings of the top view. I'm making the engine in N-scale using a Concor 4-6-2 Pacific. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Roger Elliott ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 98 16:38:15 CST Subject: [PRR] N8 caboose Content-Length: 658 Hi, all, >Bowser offers the N5, N5C; Liberty will have their N8. Am I reading this right? Is Liberty coming out with an HO N8? More info please - I sure hope so. PRR forever, Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 03 Apr 98 15:38:07 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: [PRR] RE: clearances and Hudson River tunnels Content-Length: 3853 Hank Mummert wrote: > Dad was telling me this to show me how DUMB Amtrak can be. Hank, remember, we're talking about the government here. The $400 toilet seat people. > He said the new cars can only use the South tunnel(east bound) > into and out of New York as the North tunnel (west bound) clearances > are too tight... > Theres not a problem with the height...its the width.... > The tunnels have knee walls and the knee walls in the North tunnel > are tighter than the South tunnel... This sounds fishy. Why would PRR intentionally make clearances more restrictive in one tunnel, vs. the other? This would eventually affect operations, and they had to know that. Pennsy men usually thought-through this type of thing. They were engineers, not bureaucrats. > Apparently Amtrak placed their order before even checking the clearances. > This will severely place restictions on their operations and such... > ( And this is for the next generation that was supposed to replace > conventional trains?) > they can't all run through the South tunnel...sheesh... Doesn't Amtrak possess a clearance plate for the corridor, which would include any restrictions such as this? Seems like this would be 'boilerplate' to provide contractors building any equipment to be run into NYP. Wouldn't Bombardier have one, as I thought they had built equipment for Amtrak (or at least other tenants of Penn Station, such as NJT) before? Are the tunnels signalled for bidirectional running? I thought not, but I'm often wrong. > > One question i have is this... > I thought the two tunnels were identical...i guess not...unless > the were modified later... > Dad said the knee wall is also a walkway for the tunnel..(makes sense > since when they were built there was third rail at track level then > and they probably wanted a way for employees to keep from touching > it by accident in the dark) (maybe a late design change then) The tunnels are really metal tubes, with the track sitting on concrete near the bottom of each tube. Due to the curvature of the tube, there would really be no place for a track-level walkway, except between the rails themselves. So concrete knee-walls were built. Cables run on one side, and a walkway runs on the other. I assume the signals are on the walkway side, for maintenance reasons. Must be a tight squeeze, though. > Does anyone know why there is a difference between the two? > > Dad doubts Amtrak will modify the North tunnel....He said Amtrak > will probably operate with the problem...since the order has started > and it would be costly to scrap anything already started and/or rebuild > cars. > Also these same cars were to be able to tilt 8 degrees...for curves... > guess what...they will only tilt 4 degrees...this will cut down on there > speed...so they already have two things against them already and they > are'nt even near being in service yet.... Any idea why the change in plan? Clearances again? Not being able to go their designed speed rather defeats their reason for being, doesn't it? With Amtrak's financial problems, plus the apparent change in the trains performance expectations, the "American Flyer" or whatever may meet the same fate as the "Marlboro train". Why continue to pour money into a whiz-bang train incompatible with all other equipment, if you'd get the same performance out of an AEM7 pulling Amfleet cars? -- Doug Drew ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:37:07 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] N6B in HO? Content-Length: 1967 Andy Miller wrote <> Tom V. wrote <> I believe the plastic one was made by Model Power. In addition to the steps, I'd plan to replace the trucks (or at least the wheelsets), upgrade the end detailing, and replace the cast on grabs. The Gloor Craft kit was originally made by Ambroid. An O scale ND/NDa is or was also available. I've built N6b and NDa in HO scale and ND in O scale. These kits are a lot of fun. Even if you want to use the Model Power for most of your fleet, I'd recommend building at least one Gloor Craft. The G-C has nice drawings and will give you examples of the castings available. As I recall, the Model Power doesn't have the correct detailing on the end railings, so you can use the same methods as on the G-C. However, don't follow the instructions to paint it "Caboose Red." The correct color would be Freight Car Red. I've used 50/50 mix of Floquil Freight Car Red and Zinc Chromate Primer. For a weathered car, you might want to use straight primer. BTW, the O scale kit was the most fun. I put working marker lights on it, using a battery for power. John Keel ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 98 16:52:56 CST Subject: [PRR] Overhead crane question Content-Length: 1375 Hi, all, Here's a question. Does anyone out there have drawings/spec'ns for a standard PRR overhead crane that was frequently used over two tracks to lift loads (often ashes) and dump them into a car? If you look at photos of engine facilities and the stadard powerhouse the PRR used on the Middle Div. at Denholm, water pans at Hawstone, powerplant on the east side of the Gallitzen tunnels. and elsewhere, you see this crane. It appeared to have a small 4-wheel carriage that rode across the top of the crane and moved the cable and hook horizontally. Often these cranes show up with two small wheels at each top end, presumably cables that moved the carriage back and forth. There are a number of photos of it in PRR Power and als in TRIUMPH I (boy, I hate to admit that that book is useful!). I need to model it in HO for my Denholm installation. HELP!! PRR forever! Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:07:08 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] N6B in HO? Content-Length: 3079 This information is for Walthers - Sorry I forgot to add that! >Gloor Craft parts and kits for PRR cabins as of 4/3/98 (Y=in stock, N=not >in stock) > >288 869 Caboose step PRR Style 4/ 3.25 Y >288 870 Smoke jack PRR style 2/ 2.25 Y >288 871 Marker light PRR style 4/ 2.25 Y >288 872 Chimney short 2/ 2.25 Y >288 873 Window 2-pane large 3/ 2.25 Y >288 886 Cabin door PRR 2/ 2.25 Y >288 887 Cabin window PRR 2.25 N Unknown >288 893 Step PRR ND type 3.25 Y >288 894 Wheel housing PRR ND 4/ 2.25 Y >288 3100 Caboose PRR class N6A 24.95 Y >288 3101 Caboose PR class N6B 24.95 N Unknown >288 3104 4WH wood caboose PRR ND4 24.95 N Unknown > >Happy Rails >Bruce > >Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. >Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and >Director, Nucleic Acid Services >Scott-Ritchey Research Center >334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) >http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ >******************************************************************************* >* >Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! >http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html > _ _ > / \ / \ > ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ > |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. >------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Eichhorn Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 16:08:53 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] N6B in HO? Content-Length: 1100 In a message dated 4/3/98 3:48:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, smithbf@mail.auburn.edu writes: << Railworks recently improted a batch of cabins including the N6b with center and offset cupola. Retail is running $130-$160 I think. >> Hi Guys, I picked up a Railworks PRR Wood Cabin Car at Mitchels in Wilmington about a month or so ago. The models are as follows: N-6a Wide Cupola N-6 b Offset Narrow Cupola N-6b Center Narrow Cupola They were priced at $152. Expensive yes, gorgeous yes! The detail on all is superb. They are made in Korea by Woosung Brass Models. I got the Offset Cupola version. All that's required is a little paint and some decals. Project # 42 on the agenda :-) Cheers, George ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 16:13:26 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Hunter" Subject: Re: [PRR] N6B in HO? Content-Length: 1527 Jerry, The only N6b cars I've seen were a wood kit made by Gloorcraft's predecessor, a plastic version once made by Model Power which I reviewed in an old KEYSTONE (it needed work), and various brass models. I believe Iron Horse Models made one about 8 or 10 years ago. Jim On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Jerry_Britton wrote: > Anyone make a good N6B Cabin in HO scale? > > Bowser offers the N5, N5C; Liberty will have their N8. > > I checked the Cabin Car database and there were several N6B's in the > Chesapeake Region assigned to trains bound for York, Pa., which I am > modeling. > > --------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com > Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kevin Tully" Subject: [PRR] GP20/18 Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 13:20:18 PST Content-Length: 741 I am building a master for an RS-1325 for Liberty Models. If someone has an old Tyco/Mantua/Lionel GP20/18 shell laying around and wants to sell/donate it please contact me. The pilots need not be in great shape, as long as the cab and short hood are fine. Kevin ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Plans for #3768 K-4 streamliner Date: Fri, 3 Apr 98 16:48:51 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1055 On 4/3/98 4:17 PM, Roger Elliott (relliott@mail.telis.org) wrote: >I am starting to figure out ways and means to scratchbuild the K-4 >streamliner #3768. I've got some drawings that show the side of the >engine but I could use help in finding other drawings of the top view. >I'm making the engine in N-scale using a Concor 4-6-2 Pacific. Roger: Are you aware that Liberty Model Productions is coming out with this unit...based on a Bowser? See http://liberty.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 03 Apr 98 17:47:29 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: [PRR] re: N6b 'cheapie' model Content-Length: 628 The N6b model I think Andy Miller is referring to is now marketed by Model Power. I think it retails for $5.95 They can be found at the Great American Toy, I mean TRAIN, Store, among other places. For what it is, it ain't bad... especially if you need a fleet. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 14:51:37 -0800 From: Roger Elliott Subject: Re: [PRR] Plans for #3768 K-4 streamliner Content-Length: 1196 Liberty wrote: > Roger, > > We here at Liberty are planning on doing one of these in N scale, but > seeing as how you may be ahead of us, would you care to submit the > master > to us for use in the making of a kit ? We are looking into using the > Mini-Trix chassis, although the Con Cor would do nicely also ! > > Joe Zappa, Liberty Model Productions Hello Joe, Yes, I'd be happy to submit the master, although what I would probably be doing is using the original body and somehow forming the shrouding over it. It's similar to what was done in real life I guess so I though I'd try the same technique. I'll sand down the details and then lay some form of "sheathing" over the body. Any ideas as to what I could use would be greatly appreciated. What do you have in the way of drawings? Thanks! Roger Elliott ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] N8 caboose Date: Fri, 3 Apr 98 17:53:56 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 900 On 4/3/98 6:38 PM, George Pierson (George.Pierson@trnty.edu) wrote: >Am I reading this right? Is Liberty coming out with an HO N8? More info >please - I sure hope so. Yes. Prototype should be at PRRT&HS convention. Shipping units later in May (tentative). Their web site contains more info (http://liberty.dsop.com). ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Knepper" Subject: Re: [PRR] N6B in HO? Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:59:51 -0500 Content-Length: 1439 Jerry, I have a BRASS Kit for sale......Talk to me if your interested. Bill Knepper ---------- > From: Jerry_Britton > To: PRR-Talk > Subject: [PRR] N6B in HO? > Date: Friday, April 03, 1998 12:03 PM > > Anyone make a good N6B Cabin in HO scale? > > Bowser offers the N5, N5C; Liberty will have their N8. > > I checked the Cabin Car database and there were several N6B's in the > Chesapeake Region assigned to trains bound for York, Pa., which I am > modeling. > > --------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com > Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 18:11:00 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] N6B in HO? Content-Length: 931 In a message dated 98-04-03 13:01:37 EST, Jerry writes: << Anyone make a good N6B Cabin in HO scale? >> Did QualityCraft redo this like the ND? Otherwise, the Model Power body is not bad,but like almost all trainset mfrs, they got the ladders and roofwalk reversed -pain in the neck. You would need to totally rebuild the end railings. I picked up one on consignment at Reed's hobbyshop in California on which a guy had done a great job of doing just that.. Major work, but as I say, at least the main body and cupola is a good start (and cheap!). Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Michael DiMaio" Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 01:48:21 -0500 Subject: [PRR] T-1 prototype Content-Length: 608 I bet no one has figured out how to model a diaphram realistically between the T-1 and its tender. If they have, I would be interested in seeing the design. Michael DiMaio, Ph.D. Department of Philosophy Salve Regina University Newport, RI 02920 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Knepper" Subject: Re: [PRR] N6B in HO? Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 06:18:31 -0500 Content-Length: 2317 I'll have a brass kit from "The Car Shop" of an N6b for sale at the train show today ! Bill Knepper PS: Look for the Northern Central Hats ! ---------- > From: James R. Hunter > To: Jerry_Britton > Cc: PRR-Talk > Subject: Re: [PRR] N6B in HO? > Date: Friday, April 03, 1998 4:13 PM > > Jerry, > > The only N6b cars I've seen were a wood kit made by Gloorcraft's > predecessor, a plastic version once made by Model Power which I reviewed > in an old KEYSTONE (it needed work), and various brass models. I believe > Iron Horse Models made one about 8 or 10 years ago. > > Jim > > > > On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Jerry_Britton wrote: > > > Anyone make a good N6B Cabin in HO scale? > > > > Bowser offers the N5, N5C; Liberty will have their N8. > > > > I checked the Cabin Car database and there were several N6B's in the > > Chesapeake Region assigned to trains bound for York, Pa., which I am > > modeling. > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com > > Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com > > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Prr1187 Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 12:01:40 EST Subject: Re: Re: [PRR] N6b cabin Content-Length: 1022 Another easy-to-correct problem with the Model Power PRR N6b cabin involves changing the location of the smokestack to the correct side. The lettering needs changed too, so get an undec. I have re-worked one and added a conductor on the steps. The conductor has a lantern that actually lights. I used a Utah Pacific axial 1.5 volt light. The leads are very thin wire that are only insulated with shellac. I cut grooves up the arms and down the back & legs to inside the cabin where I have a battery. The grooves are "puttied" over just with glue and can't be seen after painting. I have been told that the result is impressive! Dennis Sautters ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 15:14:52 EST Subject: [PRR] [PRRMO] Thoughts: double-tracked mains Content-Length: 1169 Ahem, Now just where does Lines West fit into all of this. I've got the framing done for the Panhandle/DT&I junction at South Charleston,Ohio. I've been watching the PRRMO posts and haven't seen much to convince me that a double tracked main, the standard west of Pittsburgh, will be able to connect into this system. I still think the thing to do is build a "Pittsburgh" module with a four-tracked mainline heading "east" from a representation of Conway yard at the "east" end of the module and a two-tracked main heading west from a representation of either the Fort Wayne's Mongahela River bridge or the Panhandle's Ohio Connecting Bridge at the west end of the Module. Just think how realistic operations will as we try to route all traffic on a single yard. Will I be to hook in? Tom V. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Knepper" Subject: [PRR] Train Show in Md. Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 18:36:37 -0500 Content-Length: 708 To All: Great Show, and lots of good bargains for the SPF ! 1/ Undecked P2k, PA's & PB ( last set 55.00) 2/ Brass PA & PB set , Factory painted asking $ 150.00 ( new) 3/ American Model Builders, Laser Cut's table.... ( New Freedom Station) FULL PRICE ! 4/ Brass Cabin's for Jerry ! etc. Sorry I missed You All ! Bill Knepper ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 18:46:03 -0500 (EST) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] PRR & "Titanic" Content-Length: 1686 Hello folks... Bare with me as this is "PRR" related... As most of you all know the movie "Titanic" has been out for a while. This post my be more for the wives and ladies of the group. Here is some trivia concerning the "Titanic" and the PRR. One of the First class passengers on the "Titanic" was Mr. John B. Thayer Mr. Thayer was second vice President of the PRR in 1912. Another railroad connection was Mr. Charles M. Hays, President of the Grand Trunk RR. J.P. Morgan the millionare owned IMM(international mercantile marine) which in turn owned the White Star line and the "Titanic" Mr. Morgan had many dealings with the PRR, Penn station in New York being one of them(He had known A.J.Cassatte) Also after the sinking and arrival of the "Carpathia" in New York with the survivors the PRR offered free passage to survivors on PRR trains so they could get to their destination or in connection with other railroads. As you all can tell i am also a "Titanic" fan...(well i do work for a large shipyard) If anyone wants references for what i listed above let me know and i'll forward the source. Til Later Hank Mummert P.S. Its a very,very good movie too! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 00:15:02 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Train engines picture Content-Length: 1063 Jerry wrote: > ...I have an old postcard photo I found among photos of my late > grandfather, of two train engines pulled beside each other, frontal view, the> train #'s are 4068 and 1664, there is about 25 individuals posing with> these trains for the picture. Look to be PRR, tho not 100 percent certain. But they seem to fit the numbering pattern: PRR 1664 was an H6 (looks right) and 4068 was an H6a (again, looks right). The only thing that doesn't seem to match exactly for PRR is the boiler fronts, which appear in the photo not to be of the standard PRR type, but I might not be viewing it in the best perspective to see depth. Dan Dan Cupper cupper@ibm.net Isaiah 30:18 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 06:07:44 EDT Subject: [PRR] Railpace Magazine Content-Length: 575 Does anyone know of a source for an index to Railpace Newsmagazine. Searching for articles on the Middle Division and its branches, Pittsburg Division from Altoona to Cresson, and the East Broad Top. Thanks Harold ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 10:01:59 -0400 From: mxb13@psu.edu (Mike Bezilla) Subject: Re: [PRR] Railpace Magazine Content-Length: 494 >Does anyone know of a source for an index to Railpace Newsmagazine. Their index is on their website, railpace.com, it's quite lengthy. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 14:54:46 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: clearances and Hudson River tunnels Content-Length: 928 In a message dated 98-04-03 17:05:32 EST, ddrew@channing-bete.com writes: << Why continue to pour money into a whiz-bang train incompatible with all other equipment, if you'd get the same performance out of an AEM7 pulling Amfleet cars? >> An excellent question. Personally, I find it hard to believe that even Amtrak would make such a colossal goof. This would have the effect of single-tracking the busiest section of the NEC. I will ask around when I get to work (at 30th Street), but my gut feeling is that Hank got some bad information. Rich Copeland ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AJSNGS Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 19:17:09 EDT Subject: [PRR] HO PRR M1a Content-Length: 754 I bought an HO Oriental Limited M1a about ten years ago. It was test run only and has spent most of it's time in the box. Beautiful detail on this locomotive. It comes with long distance tender and full backhead detail in the cab. Also comes with modern style pilot and smokebox front. The original pilot and front are on it. You can model early or late styles. Any interest ? Andy Sentipal ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 21:06:19 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Cyber chapter (proposed) Content-Length: 1760 In a message dated 98-04-02 18:23:04 EST, bejm@eeg.ccf.org writes: << Do y'all still want to do this?? >> What with all the great PRR websites, and this great discussion group (and I mean that!), I have never understood how a remotely- located PRR fan, who is a "national-only" PRRTHS member, could gain access to any additional information about the railroad just by being in a "cyber" chapter. What would this organization actually do? The 24-hour access to PRR-Talk and the websites eliminates the necessity of having on-line meetings, IMHO. Would all of our website owners be willing to consolidate their efforts into one big site? If I had put in the efforts that Jerry, Mark and the others have, I would not personally be willing to do that. My suggestion: If Mark goes ahead and makes his presentation at Lancaster, it will probably turn into a heated discussion about the current PRRTHS website. Why don't we go in with the idea of getting control of that site, establishing links from it to all of the other sites, and keeping it updated? I'm saying "we", but should be saying "you", as I will be unable to attend Lancaster this year. If a cyber chapter is established, I will probably join it just to see what it's like. But, with the exception of the poorly-maintained PRRTHS website, I'm happy with the current state of PRR on-line affairs. Rich Copeland ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 5 Apr 98 23:10:54 EDT From: robs@protocol.zycad.com (Robert Schoenberg) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR in next MR Content-Length: 1337 My guess is that the Sunshine car's will beavailabe at the PRRT&HS convention... They seem to have something new there every year.... Too bad I can't make it this year :( Rob >I didn't get it yet, but I was just on MR's web site and saw that the new >issue, May, includes: > Altoona to Pittsburgh over Horse Shoe Curve: >======== > >Did you also notice that Sunshine now has models of X37, X37a, nd X37b box >cars!! Now, when will C&BT release their X29b's and d's?? :-)) I may yet >have an accurate fleet of PRR transition era freight cars (may all my Athearns >RIP). > >regards >Andy Miller > > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. >------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 23:53:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: [PRR] Letering standard? Content-Length: 947 Hi, Noticed something; In the picture of an ABB set of freight sharks on p 29 of Pennsy Diesel Years 5 note that the spacing of the letters P E N N S Y L V A N I A on the flanks of the B units are spaced differently. One is lettered in a manner rendering the name much more compact that the other. The lead A shark seems to have a spacing in between; the A has the lettering from the cab door back; The non-compact B along the length of the unit, the compact B about comparable in spacing to that of the F units elsewhere on the page. Was there some standard for this? -D ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 06:44:27 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Changing a Light Bulb Content-Length: 3231 ---------------------- Forwarded by Randy Williamson/Marathon on 04/06/98 06:39 AM --------------------------- ---------- Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take to change a light bulb? A: 1,331: 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail list that the light bulb has been changed 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently. 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs. 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs. 53 to flame the spell checkers 156 to write to the list administrator complaining about the light bulb discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list. 41 to correct spelling in the spelling/grammar flames. 109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and to please take this email exchange to alt.lite.bulb 203 to demand that cross posting to alt.grammar, alt.spelling and alt.punctuation about changing light bulbs be stopped. 111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we are all use light bulbs and therefore the posts **are** relevant to this mail list. 306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique, and what brands are faulty. 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs 14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and to post corrected URLs. 3 to post about links they found from the URLs that are relevant to this list which makes light bulbs relevant to this list. 33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote them including all headers and footers, and then add "Me Too." 12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing because they cannot handle the light bulb controversey. 19 to quote the "Me Too's" to say, "Me Three." 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ. 1 to propose new alt.change.lite.bulb newsgroup. 47 to say this is just what alt.physic.cold_fusion was meant for, leave it here. 143 votes for alt.lite.bulb. MNRail ___ WWW: http://www.visi.com/~mfrahm/mnrail/ ______________________ Minn., S.Dak., N.Dak., n.Iowa, w.Wisc., western Ontario, eastern Manitoba| Posting address: mnrail@lists.visi.com Owner: mfrahm@visi.com| Help: send a message to majordomo@lists.visi.com with "help" as the body| ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Re: Paint You Use For Dulux? From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 98 09:30:48 -0400 Content-Length: 1188 Actually, I have heard it refered to as "Railroad Dulux" but I don't know that it has a real name. I believe Champ Decals calls the two colors "Metalic Gold", and "Dulux Gold". I also believe that "Dulux" is a Dupont trade name. I always called it "mustard"! regards Andy ======== On 4/3/98 5:13 PM, Andrew S. Miller (asmiller@mail11.mitre.org) wrote: >I've always used Floquil. But thats in my airbrush. Some of their color are >available in aerosol cans but only a few. I don't know whether the Dulux >gold >is one of them. Is "Dulux Gold" actually the name of their color? If so, that's easy! - ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! - ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 11:26:29 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] Changing a Light Bulb Content-Length: 779 Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com wrote: > > Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take > to change a light bulb? > A: 1,331:............... OK, Randy, you got us started: Q. How many bluegrass musicians does it take to change a light bulb? A. Four: one to turn the bulb and three to complain that it's electric. BTW, that was great! Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 11:34:53 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Paint You Use For Dulux? Content-Length: 1120 Andrew S. Miller wrote: > > Actually, I have heard it refered to as "Railroad Dulux" but I don't know that > it has a real name. I believe Champ Decals calls the two colors "Metalic > Gold", and "Dulux Gold". I also believe that "Dulux" is a Dupont trade name. I > always called it "mustard"! > Dulux and Duco are DuPont trade names for two types of their lacquer. Back about 1957 I got some Duco MP Eagle Blue and Eagle Gray from the MoP shops in Houston. The man in the paint shop told me, (correctly or not), that they sprayed the Duco and brushed the Dulux. The convention in this hobby seems to have been to refer to the typical non-metallic mustard-colored gold as "Dulux Gold." Champ has been using this term for years. Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:47:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Changing a Light Bulb Content-Length: 1386 It is dedicated to those who take this too seriously. Stephen Bartlett on 04/06/98 10:26:29 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com cc: (bcc: Randy Williamson/Marathon) Subject: Re: [PRR] Changing a Light Bulb Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com wrote: > > Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take > to change a light bulb? > A: 1,331:............... OK, Randy, you got us started: Q. How many bluegrass musicians does it take to change a light bulb? A. Four: one to turn the bulb and three to complain that it's electric. BTW, that was great! Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 20:16:09 EDT Subject: [PRR] (PRR) Riding the Pennsy T-1 Content-Length: 731 Just received a copy of the July 1943 Trains Magazine and there is an 8 page article about a ride in the Cab of 6111 from Pittsburg to Harrisburg, What an adventure! you can almost smell the coal smoke. I recommend that all of you T-1 fans get a copy for your collection and read the article just before you take her out on your layout for a run. Harold Gainesville, FL ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 20:48:15 -0400 From: "R. Vogel" Subject: [PRR] Railroads using Penn Station N.Y. Content-Length: 707 I saw a few minutes of "Man In A Gray Flannel Suit" on the tube yesterday. Gregory Peck was commuting on the New Haven. I missed or they did not show where he caught the train in New York. Did the New Haven go to Penn Station? If not where? Where there any other railroads (besides PRR, LIRR, PC, AMTRAK, & NJT) that were NYP regulars? ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 20:59:16 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Railroads using Penn Station N.Y. Content-Length: 680 In a message dated 98-04-06 20:50:03 EDT, bobv writes: > Where there any other railroads (besides PRR, LIRR, PC, AMTRAK, & NJT) > that were NYP regulars? Seaboard Air Line and Atlantic Coast Line also in conjunction with the PRR (the Florida Trains) Harold Gainesville, FL Yes the Pennsy came through this town! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:24:28 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Railroads using Penn Station N.Y. Content-Length: 1237 ---"R. Vogel" wrote: > > I saw a few minutes of "Man In A Gray Flannel Suit" on the tube > yesterday. Gregory Peck was commuting on the New Haven. I missed or they > did not show where he caught the train in New York. > > Did the New Haven go to Penn Station? If not where? > > Where there any other railroads (besides PRR, LIRR, PC, AMTRAK, & NJT) > that were NYP regulars? > In the fabled good old days, I believe the New Haven had trains in\out of both Grand Central Station and Penn Station. I think the commuter traffic was at Grand Central but there were some joint services like Washington-to-Boston which used Penn Station and the Hell Gate Bridge. Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 21:39:39 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Railroads using Penn Station N.Y. Content-Length: 1874 R. Vogel wrote: > > Did the New Haven go to Penn Station? If not where? > > Where there any other railroads (besides PRR, LIRR, PC, AMTRAK, & NJT) > that were NYP regulars? PRR's Washington-Boston passenger trains, operated jointly with New Haven, used the Hell Gate Bridge and thus NH locomotives and intercity trains did operate into Penn Station. But many NH trains -- principally commuter trains -- used Grand Central Terminal. As to your question, B&O and Lehigh Valley come to mind as other tenants of Penn Station. B&O used Penn Station from World War I up to about 1926, a carryover from the USRA practice of consolidating operations during the war. In fact, PRR Form 79 (NY-Washington) from USRA days does not carry a PRR name or keystone, but rather a heading listing "Time of Trains between NY/Phila. and Balt./Wash. via All Railroads." All railroads, of course, being just two -- PRR and B&O. Once out of the immediate New York/Newark area, B&O trains used Lehigh Valley and Reading to get to Philadelphia and B&O's home rails. When PRR succeeded in kicking B&O out of Penn Station, B&O reverted to using CNJ's Jersey City Terminal. Right up to the end of LV intercity passenger service in 1961, LV trains started using NY Penn. as a result of the same USRA decree that put B&O in there. PRR didn't kick LV out presumably because LV was, after the 1920s, corporately part of the PRR family. Hope this helps. Dan Dan Cupper cupper@ibm.net Romans 10:9-10 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TVPedro Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 21:28:49 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Railroads using Penn Station N.Y. Content-Length: 675 The NH used both Grand Central and NYP. Trains terminating in NY City went to Grand Central. Thru trains for Washington came over Hell Gate into NYP and over to Jersey and south. During WW I, the government took over the rail roads and they allowed other roads into the city via the PRR tunnels, notably the B & O. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 23:41:31 -0500 From: Andy Cich Subject: [PRR] GG1 by IHC Content-Length: 1247 I purchased one of IHC's GG1's a few months ago, and finally got to run it tonight. I gained a lot of respect for it, as I was able to pull 20 Bowser H21's, a 16 pack of Walther's ore cars, 6 P2K gondolas, and a Bowser N5 with no problem (on level track). The GG1 is the new reformulated version with twin motors. While running the model, I got out Pennsy Electric Years and Pennsy Power to look for details I can add. My main observation is the model sits too high. Does anybody out there have drawings for a GG1 and could tell me how high off the railhead the bottom of the body should be? The height to the top of the roof would also be useful. The body appears to sit about 1/8" (a scale foot) too high, but it looks like it can be lowered by that much. Other than the lowering, the only major addition I could find is to add steps below the side doors. Andy C. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2 Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 01:11:33 EDT Subject: [PRR] N-6b Underframe Information Requested. Content-Length: 984 To All, I am scratchbuilding an N-6b for a modeling article. Does anyone know what the underframe on this car looks like? I have built the Quaility Craft Kits(Gloor Craft) but would like more information. There are still a very few of these cars around, has anyone taken photos of the underframe? Can anyone point me in the right direction? I do have a good selection of reference material but nothing that actually shows the underframe or it's components. This is a good chance for us all to learn something more from one another. Please share what you do know. Thank You All In Advance Ed Martin ! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 03:05:16 -0700 From: Sharon Edwards Subject: [PRR] I1s turbo generators Content-Length: 515 Greetings, Does any one know what make and model of turbo generator that was commonly used on the I1 classes and the A-5 class? Thanks Doug Edwards ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 09:42:04 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1 by IHC Content-Length: 1890 Andy Cich wrote: > >...... My main observation is the model > sits too high. Does anybody out there have drawings for a GG1 and could > tell me how high off the railhead the bottom of the body should be? The > height to the top of the roof would also be useful. The body appears to > sit about 1/8" (a scale foot) too high, but it looks like it can be > lowered by that much. > Andy, "Railroad Model Craftsman" magazine for December, 1975, ran extremely detailed drawings of the GG-1. Scaling from the elevation, the bottom outer edge of the body is about 4 ft 7 inches above the top of rail. There appears to be a slightly recessed member below that which is only 4 ft 3 in. above rail, and which angles upward at the nose area over the pilot. This is visible in many photos. The hard part to duplicate with models is that the truck castings sit up inside the carbody, hard to accomplish in the model with thick body castings and wide truck swings. The truck drawings show the top of the main truck casting as about 4 ft 7 1/2 in above rail; this can vary in the prototype as the springs are compressed or relieved. Height to top of the cab roof area scales to about 14 ft 1 1/2 inches. An equipment diagram may give more top dimensions including pantograph height at lock down and at minimum operating height. While I scaled the dimensions given above, I checked some of the dimensioned parts of the drawing and found no discernible deviation from the indicated size. Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Railroads using Penn Station N.Y. From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 98 10:15:44 -0400 Content-Length: 1524 Regular inhabitants of Penn Sta during the Post War era include: PRR (of course), LIRR, NH, ACL, SAL, RF&P, FEC, SOU, C&O, LV, and CN. These were the roads which participated in joint passenger train operations. Only the PRR, LIRR, and NH ever had motive power in PS. Regularly scheduled through sleeping cars could also be found from: UP, SF, RI, StL&SF, MKT, MP, CB&Q, and N&W. BTW What's PC, AMTRAK, & NJT ? ;-) regards Andy Miller ========= I saw a few minutes of "Man In A Gray Flannel Suit" on the tube yesterday. Gregory Peck was commuting on the New Haven. I missed or they did not show where he caught the train in New York. Did the New Haven go to Penn Station? If not where? Where there any other railroads (besides PRR, LIRR, PC, AMTRAK, & NJT) that were NYP regulars? - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 09:37:18 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1 by IHC Content-Length: 3437 Hi Andy, >I purchased one of IHC's GG1's a few months ago, and finally got to run >it tonight. I gained a lot of respect for it, as I was able to pull 20 >Bowser H21's, a 16 pack of Walther's ore cars, 6 P2K gondolas, and a >Bowser N5 with no problem (on level track). The GG1 is the new >reformulated version with twin motors. This is definitely an improvement over the one motor version, which can barely pull its own shadow! In order to make the older units pull at all, you must add weight wherever you can fit it in! >Other than the lowering, the only major addition I could find is to add >steps below the side doors. You're right, but with just a little more effort, you can really jazz up these locos. I'm just finishing up a detailing project on one of the old IHC/Mehano GG-1s. The only problem is that it looks so nice, that now I have to do this on all of them! I've done the following after stripping the original paint job: 1) Scraped off the window bars and replaced with brass wire 2) Scraped off the hand rails on the end and side doors and replaced with brass wire 3) Scraped off the drop step detail (actually not bad) and added drop steps in the "down" position, along with safety "chains" across the end doors 4) added brass steps below the side doors (as you suggest) 5) added window wipers 6) replaced headlamp lenses with better lenses, mounted in a brass tube to control stray light - I'm thinking about cab lights (directional), and step lights as well 7) sanded down the "parting line" from the mold down the center of the loco 8) added the upside down U-shaped handrails to the pilot steps 9) added steam and air lines to the pilots 10) added Kadee couplers (of course!) 11) paint (Poly Scale "Brunswick Green") 12) Decals - Champ BRH-18, GG-1, "Bronze gold" 5 stripe I will probably add view blocks, painted "apple green" within the cab to simulate the electrical equipment which occupied this space in the prototype. I expect to mount a Soundtraxx DCC GG-1 sound decoder in one nose, and a speaker in the center of the cab (or the other nose). The view blocks will provide a channel to route decoder wires out of view through the cab. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:48:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1 by IHC Content-Length: 1516 On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote: > This is definitely an improvement over the one motor version, which can > barely pull its own shadow! In order to make the older units pull at all, > you must add weight wherever you can fit it in! I found in the older units if you got medium-sized wheel weights (those little lead blobs they use to balance your wheels) you can add a good bit, plus I gave mine directional lighting. > You're right, but with just a little more effort, you can really jazz up > these locos. I'm just finishing up a detailing project on one of the old > IHC/Mehano GG-1s. The only problem is that it looks so nice, that now I > have to do this on all of them! I've done the following after stripping > the original paint job: You have more patience than me. My decalling skills are, uh, poor, so I shy from removing factory paint. > 8) added the upside down U-shaped handrails to the pilot steps How did this work? I thought the steps slid under the unit to the extent it would take them off, hence none? > 10) added Kadee couplers (of course!) This, I can say, is a pain. -D ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:34:09 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Re: GG1 by IHC Content-Length: 2863 Derrick noted: >> 8) added the upside down U-shaped handrails to the pilot steps > >How did this work? I thought the steps slid under the unit to the extent >it would take them off, hence none? Well...it depends...if you are running on 18" radii, forget it! However, if you run on something more moderate such as my 28" min radii, this works fine. After all, it works for my brass GG-1! there is at least 1/8" for travel on each side, if not more. If you need to, you can angle the grabs out slightly, but I think it reduces the visual effect. >You have more patience than me. My decalling skills are, uh, poor, so I >shy from removing factory paint. This was the first time I EVER applied PRR 5 stripe decals. I will only admit to using more than one set, and I refuse to disclose the number of times I have stripped and repainted the model to get it "right" on the grounds that it would somewhat dim the aura that I know what I'm doing! I figured that "learning" on a "cheap" plastic model would definitley be the right place to start. Most of my added details are pretty robust, so they take repeated stripping just fine . My advice is stolen from the American Homebrew Association - "Don't worry, have a homebrew" - just relax, and try it. Don't worry if you don't get it right the first time - learn from your mistakes and try again. I have put a model up on my display shelf, only to take it down 2 months later, because the paint or decals just weren't quite right to my eye - strip it - and start over. On the GG-1, the real beast is the thin gold band along the bottom of the carbody. THAT was tough! Happy Painting Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:42:57 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1 by IHC Content-Length: 445 Is this unit the correct length? Don't have one, so I can't measure mysrelf. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 14:55:37 -0500 From: tmahon@cfnh.com (Tom Mahon) Subject: [PRR] Speaking of GG1's Content-Length: 886 Since this thread is on GG1's, I have a small problem. My loving sisters chipped and bought me a Rivorossi GG1 in Tuscan for my 50th. The thing flies and pulls. I put a Kadee 37 on one end per the conversion table, now I can't get the truck to turn properly. I suspect I screwed something up in the dis-/re-assembly of the truck (Considering that you have to grind/cut a part of coupler pocket out to get the 37 to fit!). I'd appreciate any sage (or other) :-) counsel the members of the list may have to offer. Tom Mahon ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 17:27:55 -0400 From: "Robert G. McKeever II" Subject: [PRR] PSMRC Module debut 10 days away... Content-Length: 2544 I wrote a little while back about the debut of the Penn State Model Railroad Club's modular layout. Yes, the show is still on! It is now 10 days from reality, and progress looks good. Mainline is complete on at least 8 straight modules (4' each in length), and (almost) on four corners (one is missing the outside track yet). Altoona members will have 2-3 modules in addition. Of those 12 mentioned above, four or five have some degree of "complete" scenery. I use complete loosely, for they aren't complete, but significantly far enough along that bare wood does not show. One of the ones in progress (unfortunately not one of the four or five referenced above) is a representation of Tyrone, PA. Sorry, it's not PRR era, (well, it only has two tracks at this time, plus a representation of the legs of the old wye) at least for PSMRC purposes, but its scenic design is a neutral 60s such that it could also be used in the PRRMO group without too much incongruity. Not bad, considering six months ago this friday was our last operating session on our old permanent layout in the HUB basement... PSMRRC Spring Show (Free Admission, both shows): April 18-19, 1998 10am-6pm S&S Gallery Lounge Hetzel Union Building University Park PA April 25th, 1998 10am-6pm TV Lounge Slep Student Center Ivyside Park/PSU Altoona Altoona PA The modules may also be displayed at the 1998 Railroad Heritage Conference, June 18-21, 1998 at PSU Altoona. (They like the idea, but the details have yet to be worked out) If you cant attend, please view our modules on the web and sign the virtual visitor's log: http://www.clubs.psu.edu/mrrc/module/index.html Rob McKeever Penn State Model Railroad Club RF&P Historical Society -- Robert G. McKeever, II, KC4VDN rmckeever@psu.edu _____________________________ | ______ |_| | |_||_| | Richmond, Fredericksburg --------------------------|______ and Potomac Railroad ____________123___| | -------/ | | | 1834-1992 _________________|________|______| http://trainweb.com/rf&p ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:53:06 EDT Subject: [PRR] (PRR) Gravel Pits on the PRR Content-Length: 641 Looking for a prototype for a gravel pit. Need to model the E.R. Baldrige Gravel Pit at Barree, PA in the Middle Division. Information on the real thing would be great, however, at this point anything would be a start. Any ideas as to a source? Harold Modeling the Middle Division ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 21:16:11 -0500 From: Andy Cich Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1 by IHC Content-Length: 1987 Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote: > You're right, but with just a little more effort, you can really jazz up > these locos. I'm just finishing up a detailing project on one of the old > IHC/Mehano GG-1s. The only problem is that it looks so nice, that now I > have to do this on all of them! I've done the following after stripping > the original paint job: > > 1) Scraped off the window bars and replaced with brass wire > 2) Scraped off the hand rails on the end and side doors and replaced with > brass wire > 3) Scraped off the drop step detail (actually not bad) and added drop > steps in the "down" position, along with safety "chains" across the end > doors > 4) added brass steps below the side doors (as you suggest) > 5) added window wipers > 6) replaced headlamp lenses with better lenses, mounted in a brass tube to > control stray light - I'm thinking about cab lights (directional), and step > lights as well > 7) sanded down the "parting line" from the mold down the center of the loco > 8) added the upside down U-shaped handrails to the pilot steps > 9) added steam and air lines to the pilots > 10) added Kadee couplers (of course!) > 11) paint (Poly Scale "Brunswick Green") > 12) Decals - Champ BRH-18, GG-1, "Bronze gold" 5 stripe Great tips. I may just have to "do" one this way. My biggest obstacle is decaling over the air intakes. Do you have any tips for this? > >I expect to mount a Soundtraxx DCC GG-1 sound decoder in one > nose, and a speaker in the center of the cab (or the other nose). > What exactly does a GG-1 sound like? Andy C. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Carl Izzo" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/07/98 - Dulux Gold Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 22:20:32 -0400 Content-Length: 3107 I know that Bruce Smith was appointed "Paintmeister" by Jerry. Since Bruce probably does not have the following information available to him, I decided to share it to help clarify the problem. I know he and Jerry will forgive me. Concerning "Dulux Gold", the following information from my archives will help to clear up some of the confusion. Since space does not permit me to discuss all the differences between lacquers and enamels which took me 45 years to learn, I will only mention the types by name. Andrew S. Miller wrote about Dulux > Actually, I have heard it refered to as "Railroad Dulux" but I don't know that > it has a real name. I believe Champ Decals calls the two colors "Metalic > Gold", and "Dulux Gold". I also believe that "Dulux" is a Dupont trade name. I > always called it "mustard"! According to the CRC Handbook of Chemical Synonyms and Trade Name "Dulux" is a DuPont proprietary trade name for alkyd varnish and lacquer resins. On the other hand, according to the aforementioned source, "Duco" is Dupont's proprietary trade name for pyroxylin lacquers, containing cellulose nitrate. You may also be interested in knowing that according to the National Paint, Varnish and Laquer Association's 1969 Trademark Directory, DuPont registered Duco on 6/1/20, Dulux on 8/9/28 and Dulux 100 on 2/13/56. Stephen Bartlett wrote: > Dulux and Duco are DuPont trade names for two types of their lacquer. > Back about 1957 I got some Duco MP Eagle Blue and Eagle Gray from the > MoP shops in Houston. The man in the paint shop told me, (correctly or > not), that they sprayed the Duco and brushed the Dulux. The man at the paint shop was correct, in that they sprayed the "Duco" and brushed the "Dulux". As mentioned above, "Dulux" is an alkyd resin product and "Duco" is a nitrocellulose lacquer. It is difficult to brush nitrocellulose lacquers because they dry so fast. "Dulux" was the name of the alkyd resin based paint used for lettering. The color used for PRR lettering was "Gold". Somewhere along the line, the gold colored "Dulux" enamel became the replacement for the previously used gold leaf (that's real gold). For the record, I have in my archives a one quart can of DuPont "Dulux Gold", product no. 065 D, Gold (it does look like mustard, Andrew). I also have a one quart can of DuPont Mars Red Medium, product no.98-394H, Red. The latter paint is called Toluidine Red. When I got these paints, the product numbers were still listed by DuPont, and may be today as well. These paints were given to me when I was a Fellow Scientist at the Westinghouse Research Labs by a friendly DuPont paint salesman. Carl P. Izzo Industrial Paint Consultant ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/07/98 - Dulux Gold Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 11:58:57 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 748 On 7 Apr, "Carl Izzo" wrote: > For the record, I have in my archives a one quart can of DuPont "Dulux > Gold", product no. 065 D, Gold (it does look like mustard, Andrew). I also > have a one quart can of DuPont Mars Red Medium, product no.98-394H, Red. > The latter paint is called Toluidine Red. Was Toluidine Red used for anything besides Merchandise Service lettering? Dennis ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:45:25 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Fwd: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/07/98 - Dulux Gold Content-Length: 1062 Background of station signs and tower signs, I believe. ---Dennis Rockwell wrote: > > On 7 Apr, "Carl Izzo" wrote: > > > For the record, I have in my archives a one quart can of DuPont "Dulux > > Gold", product no. 065 D, Gold (it does look like mustard, Andrew). I also > > have a one quart can of DuPont Mars Red Medium, product no.98-394H, Red. > > The latter paint is called Toluidine Red. > > Was Toluidine Red used for anything besides Merchandise > Service lettering? > > Dennis > Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Toluidine Red From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 98 12:58:57 -0400 Content-Length: 866 Was Toluidine Red used for anything besides Merchandise Service lettering? Dennis ======= It was the inside color of the keystones on diesels Andy - ---------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. - ---------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harmantas, Andrew G." Subject: RE: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/07/98 - Dulux Gold Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:12:19 -0400 Content-Length: 563 and how about the keystones on locomotives? > ---------- > Background of station signs and tower signs, I believe. > > Was Toluidine Red used for anything besides > Merchandise Service lettering? > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 12:13:24 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Hunter" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/07/98 - Dulux Gold Content-Length: 1381 Dennis, Yes, Toluidine red was used as the basic color of the keystones on the front of K4's and M1's and all the other classes of steam that carried keystone number plates. Jim On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, Dennis Rockwell wrote: > On 7 Apr, "Carl Izzo" wrote: > > > For the record, I have in my archives a one quart can of DuPont "Dulux > > Gold", product no. 065 D, Gold (it does look like mustard, Andrew). I also > > have a one quart can of DuPont Mars Red Medium, product no.98-394H, Red. > > The latter paint is called Toluidine Red. > > Was Toluidine Red used for anything besides Merchandise > Service lettering? > > Dennis > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 13:23:28 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/07/98 - Dulux Gold Content-Length: 588 Dennis Rockwell wrote: > > Was Toluidine Red used for anything besides Merchandise > Service lettering? > I believe it was also specified for the background of the keystone plates and heralds on locomotives. Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 08 Apr 98 13:54:01 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: [PRR] Gallitzin diesel service area Content-Length: 1969 A while ago there was a thread about the diesel servicing facilities at Gallitzin and Cresson. There is a picture supposedly of the Gallitzin facility at: http://pages.prodigy.com/altoonaarchives/rlrdg02.htm I think this is the facility at Cresson, myself. I think Gallitzin's was more substantial than what's shown in the picture, i.e. several sand towers, not just one. But I've been wrong before. There are several good PRR transition-era shots at this site, and apparently you can order prints of the photographs on-line, as well. There are some shots that include the helper turntable that was almost across from Slope tower. One of the photos also answered a question I had raised about where steam helpers were turned and serviced -- there were a couple of coaling towers in the vicinity of the 7th St. bridge that apparently handled helper fueling/sanding. Maybe for mainline through power, too. The T-1's ran through Altoona, didn't they, rather than being turned there? There are also plenty of "50's atmosphere" (i.e. SMOKY) shots of Altoona in the days before urban renewal took down nearly everything trackside in the downtown area. Actually, these are good references for modeling ANY 50's city, not just Altoona specifically. Other goodies: dismantling the 9th St bridge, bus of looky-loos to out to see the "big flash" Sylvania did at Horse Shoe, Truman and Nixon whistle stops, carload of refrigerators being unloaded from an x29, cars and trucks of the era, etc. And yes, there is even a picture of the fabled Altoona brewery. Neat site! -- Doug Drew ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Toluidine Red Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 13:57:01 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 624 On 8 Apr, Andrew S. Miller wrote: > Was Toluidine Red used for anything besides Merchandise Service lettering? > > Dennis > ======= > It was the inside color of the keystones on diesels Pardon me while I whack my forehead... *whack* Thank you. Dennis ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 16:56:55 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/07/98 - Dulux Gold Content-Length: 549 In a message dated 98-04-08 12:41:50 EDT, dennis writes: << Was Toluidine Red used for anything besides Merchandise Service lettering? >> Keystone loco plate backgrounds, Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 22:00:16 -0400 From: Bob Zeolla Subject: [PRR] signals Content-Length: 1100 I'm looking for some advice on what type of signals to use and how to correctly place them on a particular section of my model railroad. There one stretch where the double track main reduces to a single track. I am assuming that there's a need for two signals at either end leading into the turnouts where the tracks converge, one to signal the status of the single track block, and the other to signal the turnout direction. What was typically done on the PRR? Where can I turn to do some research on this? By the way, while riding home tonight from NY on the NEC, I noticed a very prominent PRR keystone in one of the windows of Hudson tower just before Newark, NJ. I guess someone there is proud of his heritage! Bob Zeolla ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: [PRR] Paint Match Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:36:12 -0500 Content-Length: 607 Help! Has anyone successfully matched the Tuscan Red (maybe more maroon than Tuscan) on the P2K PRR E8 with single stripe? I could try all night, but if someone already has, I would be happy to take advantage of your experience. Thanks! Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2 Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 01:43:21 EDT Subject: [PRR] Toluidine Red for Cabin Cars Content-Length: 1688 To All, The Keystone Vol.7, No.4 Painting And Lettering Of Pennsylvania Railroad Cabin Cars by Gary C. Rauch, Robert L. Johnson, and Frederic V. Shaefer page #3. Painting: "The first paint color specifications issued by the PRR, about 1885, were for a standard "Cabin Car Color." The pigment was scarlet lead chromate, specially treated to achieve the bright red color desired for added safety from rear-end collisions. This pigment was chosen as a less-expensive substitute for vermilion, which was probaly used (possibly mixed with other pigments) before 1885 specifications. The cabin car pigment was changed to straight Toluidine red, also a bright red, in 1911; this standard applied to both Lines East and Lines West of Pittsburgh. Although the specification for toluidine red was reprinted as late as 1919, some lettering arrangements for allied lines such as N.Y.P.&N. specify freight car color as of 7-9-1915 and scarlet lead chromate before that." You can see this color was used for things other than signs and keystones. In fact it is part of the fabric and history that is the Pennsylvania Railroad. This is a bit of the "fallout" from my N-6b research. Ed Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 09:17:00 -0400 From: mxb13@psu.edu (Michael Bezilla) Subject: Re: [PRR] Gallitzin diesel service area Content-Length: 749 >A while ago there was a thread about the diesel servicing facilities at >Gallitzin and Cresson. There is a picture supposedly of the Gallitzin >facility at: > >http://pages.prodigy.com/altoonaarchives/rlrdg02.htm > >I think this is the facility at Cresson, myself. No, I'd say this is Gallitzin alright. The locomotives are facing toward AR, UN would be in the background. Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:12:15 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/07/98 - Dulux Gold Content-Length: 554 In a message dated 98-04-08 12:41:50 EDT, dennis@bbn.com writes: << Was Toluidine Red used for anything besides Merchandise Service lettering? >> Yes. Background of the Keystone. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:30:55 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR Reds, Toluidine and other Content-Length: 1010 While we're talking red paint, my understanding is that at one time PRR standards called for red-painted window sashes on company structures. My question: when did the sash standard color change to the same color as window and door frames (PRR "dark tint"). Seems like this would be an important cutoff date to Pennsy modelers of some vintage. Til the next train out, Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) Operating the Panhandle Route ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:59:58 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] water level vote Content-Length: 2303 Hi All, >Do I hear a second? > >After that, I'll turn it over to our esteemed chair to bring it to a vote. Under the operating assumptions we have, based on freemo considerations, I don't think we need to vote on this. I'm not even all that sure exactly what we would vote on. You are free to build the modules you want! Jerry - thank you for organizing a group of individuals to build corners and associated modules for the "water lever route"! This sound spectacular. Mark - are you still building the "west end return"? Now a concern that has been raised by Mark and others is return loop min radius. We had gone with 36" to allow rigid frame T-1 and Q- class locos to run. Do we need to revisit this issue at 30" for the return loop? As designed, can the T and Q classes negotiate the 36" radius 2 track loop? If enough of you wish, we can re-vote on minimum radius - please let me know your opinions. Also, based on the discussion, expect a ballot shortly on end profile for the "water level route" - please suggest any other unfinished business for a ballot! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] water level vote Date: Thu, 9 Apr 98 12:33:00 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 2864 On 4/9/98 11:59 AM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: >Under the operating assumptions we have, based on freemo considerations, I >don't think we need to vote on this. I'm not even all that sure exactly >what we would vote on. You are free to build the modules you want! Well, actually, the two-track loop REQUIRES that modules remain straight...so that the ends can geometrically match up. I don't think anyone will argue this, but it is a necessity and is contrary to FREEMO. The four-track main will be able to be any shape. I have assumed the two-track modules that participate in the "east end" loop would all be the agreed upon 30" wide with centers at 14" and 16". Also, the minimum elevation (per previous vote) -- which would apply to the entire "east end" loop and all two-track modules -- would be 50" to railhead. This, too, must remain firm for the loop to work. > >Jerry - thank you for organizing a group of individuals to build corners >and associated modules for the "water lever route"! This sound spectacular. Your welcome...and it's a great start! > >Mark - are you still building the "west end return"? Hey, we're building west...someone build east!!! > >Now a concern that has been raised by Mark and others is return loop min >radius. We had gone with 36" to allow rigid frame T-1 and Q- class locos >to run. Do we need to revisit this issue at 30" for the return loop? As >designed, can the T and Q classes negotiate the 36" radius 2 track loop? >If enough of you wish, we can re-vote on minimum radius - please let me >know your opinions. I have designed the "east end" loop corners -- and those building have agreed -- with a 36" radius on the inside track. The outside track can either have a larger radius OR have longer leads and a 36" radius as long as the track separation is 2 3/8" or greater (but 2" at module end). That makes the corners 4'9" square (if built square). > >Also, based on the discussion, expect a ballot shortly on end profile for >the "water level route" - please suggest any other unfinished business for >a ballot! Keep profile as previously agreed!!! 30" wide, 50" high, 4' and 6' lengths. Two track centers at 14" and 16". Four-track centers at 12", 14", 16" and 18". --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 15:42:26 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Reds, Toluidine and other Content-Length: 1000 In a message dated 98-04-09 10:46:07 EDT, Rick writes: > While we're talking red paint, my understanding is that at one time PRR > standards called for red-painted window sashes on company structures. My > question: when did the sash standard color change to the same color as > window > and door frames (PRR "dark tint"). Seems like this would be an important > cutoff date to Pennsy modelers of some vintage. Page 154 of Don Ball's The Pennsylvania Railroad 1940s-1950s shows red sash on Hunt and Monon Towers. I suppose this is the red used as background color on station signs also. Harold Modeling the Middle Division ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] signals Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:09:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ken Reinert" Content-Length: 3333 Bob Zeolla wrote: > I'm looking for some advice on what type of signals to use and how to > correctly place them on a particular section of my model railroad. > There one stretch where the double track main reduces to a single > track. I am assuming that there's a need for two signals at either end > leading into the turnouts where the tracks converge, one to signal the > status of the single track block, and the other to signal the turnout > direction. What was typically done on the PRR? Where can I turn to do > some research on this? Pardon the ASCII graphics... It sounds like you have something like this (assume the switch is a fairly fast switch, a #15 or #20 frog [prototype] or a #6 or #8 on the small scale -- since all tracks are considered main tracks, it would be unlikely that a "slow speed" switch would be used): 2LA Auto OO-| O--| ------------------------ westward main / 2LC [Auto] 1/ o| O--| single main ---------------------------------------- eastward main |--O |-OO Auto 2R The most basic interlocking arrangement; one switch controlled by one machine lever (1 -- that's the switch number) and three signals controlled by another lever (2 -- R indicates lever moves to the right; L indicates lever moves to the left; "Stop signal" is displayed when the lever is on center). So, we have one controlled signal eastward (2R), two controlled signals westward (2LA and 2LC) and two or three automatic block signals in advance of the interlocking (Auto). The 2R and 2LA signals would be high position light signals. If the two-track portion of the main line is designed for Rule 261 operation (trains may run in either direction by signal indication), then 2LC is also a high signal, and both 2L signals would probably be mounted on a signal bridge -- also, the [Auto] signal on the eastward main track exists (again, probably, on a signal bridge). If the two main tracks are signalled for operation in one direction only (Rule 251), then signal 2LC is a dwarf signal and the [Auto] signal does NOT exist (and its partner on the westward main track is probably mast-mounted). Now comes the tricky part -- and this depends on how close to the prototype you want to be: determining what signal heads to mount on those masts and bridges. Probably, in order to get the PRR "look and feel", you should put high signals at 2R and 2LA, and a dwarf at 2LC, or if you really have a hankering for a signal bridge, make 2LA and 2LC high signals on a bridge. If you *really* wanted to be nit-picky, we could go into pages of discussion about signal placement, aspects, etc. -- to say "This is PRR territory" though, the above should work fine :-) Ken ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:31:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Diesel Years index Content-Length: 1168 One of my big beefs with Pennsy Diesel Years is the only index available is in volume 4, and covers only volumes 1-4. Last night I typed up that much of the index, and today I started indexing volume 5. I will then do volume 6, and if I get ambitious I'll do Pennsy Steam Years 1-2, Pennsy Electric Years, PRR Hudson to Horseshoe, the 2 Color Guides to Freight and Passenger equipment, Pennsy Power 1,2,3 and Pennsy Diesel Power Review:-) I have no idea what sort of copyright terms apply to the index; If Morning Sun wanted my work I'd give it to them for free in electronic form if they promised to use it; I don't plan to or expect to make money from it, and it would of course only serve to make people want to buy their books, but copyright law is, uh, strange. Commentary welcome. -D ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:39:13 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Hunter" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Diesel Years index Content-Length: 549 Derrick- I think your indexing project would be very useful, but unless you are only going to share it with one or two other people, maybe you should contact Morning Sun Books. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Knepper" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Reds, Toluidine and other Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:12:45 -0500 Content-Length: 2694 To All, PRR red , which ever color ( Toluidine Red Enamel PRR reference no. 47-2627 or Maroon Building Paint PRR reference no. 47-2359 ) was used on windows in stations and other buildings, but the frames were Dark Brown as "J" Tower is.....I have taken my PRR Color Draft Cards to Strausburg, and have matched them against the " J " Tower and they match perfectly. The windows are Maroon Building Paint # 47-2359, The walls are Light Building Paint #47-2321 & 47-2323, The Trim around doors and windows( and other places) was Dark Building Paint # 47-2319 & 47-2325....Earlier around 1940 The base wall color was Buff Building Paint # 47-2369 ( a yellowish tan ). I have a picture (color) of New Freedom station in 1953 / 1954 when the station was Light Gray Building Paint # 47-2362 & Medium Gray Building Paint (Trim) # 47-2365.......Windows still RED ! These Color Draft Cards are available from the PRRT&HS through Ivan Frantz 1126 Hanover Rd. York, Pa. 17404. Price is around 3.00 each card. Bill Knepper New Freedom Station Project York County Northern Central Railway Rail / Trail ---------- > From: Hal6963 > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Reds, Toluidine and other > Date: Thursday, April 09, 1998 2:42 PM > > In a message dated 98-04-09 10:46:07 EDT, Rick writes: > > > While we're talking red paint, my understanding is that at one time PRR > > standards called for red-painted window sashes on company structures. My > > question: when did the sash standard color change to the same color as > > window > > and door frames (PRR "dark tint"). Seems like this would be an important > > cutoff date to Pennsy modelers of some vintage. > Page 154 of Don Ball's The Pennsylvania Railroad 1940s-1950s shows red sash on > Hunt and Monon Towers. > > I suppose this is the red used as background color on station signs also. > > Harold > Modeling the Middle Division > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Huber25 Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:49:51 EDT Subject: [PRR] Morning Sun Books Content-Length: 1105 Has anyone noticed any problems with their Morning Sun books? I have noticed several of my older (10+ years) books having terrible color shifts in the pictures. Pennsy Diesels Vol 1 and Tidewater Triangle seem to be the worst. I'm very concerned as I have most of the books they've published and I don't want to lose all my books or waste money on any more. My books are kept in my spare bedroom on glass shelves and the humidity and temperature are constant. They are not subjected to light or smoke. Also, I have had no problems with books that are older or from different publishers so I'm inclined to believe the problem is with Morning Sun. I would appreciate any feedback I can get form readers as to similar problems. Roger, SPF ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:58:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Morning Sun Books Content-Length: 1251 On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Huber25 wrote: > Has anyone noticed any problems with their Morning Sun books? I have noticed > several of my older (10+ years) books having terrible color shifts in the > pictures. Pennsy Diesels Vol 1 and Tidewater Triangle seem to be the worst. > I'm very concerned as I have most of the books they've published and I don't > want to lose all my books or waste money on any more. I noticed when I got PDY-1 that the color seemed different, but I've had no "shifts" in the colors. > My books are kept in my spare bedroom on glass shelves and the humidity and > temperature are constant. They are not subjected to light or smoke. Also, I > have had no problems with books that are older or from different publishers so > I'm inclined to believe the problem is with Morning Sun. I abuse mine, they see my office, my briefcase, the car, whatever:-) -D ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Paintloco Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:08:22 EDT Subject: [PRR] New Bachman 2-8-0 Content-Length: 980 Sirs, I see on the MR web page that the 6/98 issue will review the Bachman Baldwin 54" drivered 2-8-0. Has anyone seen it in the shops? I heard it was delayed untill 12/98. I plan to letter one for the B&LE to run the Bessy local into Linseville, Pa on my railroad to work the PRR/B&LE interchange. I talked recently to a retired fireman on the Bessy who said they used the 300 series 2-8-0s there as the track on their branch was too light for the 2-10-4s. The train worked as a turn from Albion to Meadville Junction on the Bessemer. He said the PRR interchanged a lot of coal there with the Bessy. Don Murphy ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 23:00:27 -0400 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: Re: [PRR] New Bachman 2-8-0 Content-Length: 1130 Paintloco wrote: > > Sirs, > > I see on the MR web page that the 6/98 issue will review the Bachman Baldwin > 54" drivered 2-8-0. Has anyone seen it in the shops? I heard it was delayed > until 12/98... Ken Patterson, who photographed them for the MR review, said they are VERY nice. Brass-like detail, very smooth & quiet, and heavy. List price about $100, street price should be about $70. Bachmann redid their SD45, and they are said to be every bit as good as the Kato, and can be had for $36. Its good to have another choice. Let's hope they come out with a Pennsy version of the 2-8-0. I could be wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that PRR had more Consolidations than all other rr's combined. -- Jerry Shickler e-mail: geshick@velocity.net ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 Apr 98 00:25:48 EDT From: robs@protocol.zycad.com (Robert Schoenberg) Subject: [PRR] PRR GP30 saved! WOO-HOO! Content-Length: 696 In case you haven't heard.... > >PRR GP30 TO STRASBURG: West Shore GP30 2233 is being readied at >Lewisburg, PA for shipment to the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania at >Strasburg, PA. The unit was donated by West Shore to the museum. (Ed >Brouse/Eastern Rail News - posted 4/08) > >Paul R. Tupaczewski _______________________ Rob ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] signals Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 1:33:05 EDT Content-Length: 4293 > Bob Zeolla wrote: > > I'm looking for some advice on what type of signals to use and how to > > correctly place them on a particular section of my model railroad. > > There one stretch where the double track main reduces to a single > > track. I am assuming that there's a need for two signals at either end > > leading into the turnouts where the tracks converge, one to signal the > > status of the single track block, and the other to signal the turnout > > direction. What was typically done on the PRR? Where can I turn to do > > some research on this? Ken responded: > Pardon the ASCII graphics... > > It sounds like you have something like this (assume the switch is a > fairly fast switch, a #15 or #20 frog [prototype] or a #6 or #8 on the > small scale -- since all tracks are considered main tracks, it would > be unlikely that a "slow speed" switch would be used): I'm now editing Ken's map. The prototype would place insulated joints (blocks) as follows. Noted with --][-- : > > 2LAB Auto Auto > OO-| O=-| O.-| > ----][----------][--------][--- westward main > / 2LC > 1/ o| > ingle main --][-------][----------][----------][--------][--- eastward main > |-=O |-OO |-.O |-.O > Auto 2R Auto Auto > > The 2R and 2LA signals would be high position light signals. If the > two-track portion of the main line is designed for Rule 261 operation > (trains may run in either direction by signal indication), then 2LC is > also a high signal, and both 2L signals would probably be mounted on a > signal bridge -- also, the [Auto] signal on the eastward main track > exists (again, probably, on a signal bridge). If the two main tracks > are signalled for operation in one direction only (Rule 251), then > signal 2LC is a dwarf signal and the [Auto] signal does NOT exist (and > its partner on the westward main track is probably mast-mounted). Exactly. Now for what the signals show. With switch 1 normal, the 3 "auto" signals on #1 Track (single and eastward main) and 2R work like you're accustomed to, 3 vertical for Clear, 3 diagonal for Approach, 3 horizontal for Stop at 2R, 3 horizontal and a single lower marker for Stop and Proceed at the 3 automatics. |-.O represents a signal with a full upper head and a single lower marker. With switch 1 reverse, IF #2 track is signalled for eastbound travel, 2R shows Medium Clear, -- over |. This means that the Auto signal to its left must show Approach Medium, / over |. That's why the signal is shown as |-=O : a full upper head over a vertical set of 3 lights. (ON this signal, for Stop and Proceed, only the middle of the lower 3 lights.) With switch 1 reverse, IF #2 track is NOT signalled, 2R shows Restricting, -- over \ , and the Auto to left of 2R shows Approach, / . 2L has only a partial upper head, with only the 3 horizontals (or 2 reds) on it. That's because you can't have any full speed signal aspects when all routes (the only route) goes thru the reverse side of the switch. The bottom head will have 3 verticals, so the signal will show either Stop, -- , or Medium Clear, -- over | . > Now comes the tricky part -- and this depends on how close to the > prototype you want to be: determining what signal heads to mount on > those masts and bridges. Probably, in order to get the PRR "look and > feel", you should put high signals at 2R and 2LA, and a dwarf at 2LC, > or if you really have a hankering for a signal bridge, make 2LA and > 2LC high signals on a bridge. Even if the above are not _implemented_, I would suggest that the signal have the appropriate lights on it. -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:07:23 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRRMO] Electrical: Turnout control Content-Length: 2050 >Question: There are stationary decoders that can control up to 4 switch >machines. When a decoder is programmed for a specific ID, does that ID >stay with the decoder when everything is disconnected, or must it be >reprogrammed? the decoder "remembers" its ID. plug in another controllewr and the decoder is still addressable. On the idea of "towers" - it has been my experience that having enough people around to operate is often a problem, and this simply adds to the number - now...if we want a "central dispatcher" who handles these chores, we might consider it. I would also suggest then that all mainline turnouts be run by the dispatcher and all sidings be operated by manual ground throws. The dispatcher idea would require all operators to have RADIOS and could be broadcast so that the public HEARD the train orders! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:15:14 -0500 From: tmahon@cfnh.com (Tom Mahon) Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Diesel Years index Content-Length: 1119 James R. Hunter wrote: > > Derrick- > > I think your indexing project would be very useful, but unless you > are only going to share it with one or two other people, maybe you should > contact Morning Sun Books. > > Jim > Derrick, Jim is probably right on this issue. We do a lot of training and before my company got wired to the outside world, we had an intellectual property lawyer come in an brief us on this type of issue. This does hit the fuzzy area of fair use. Of course, Morning Sun will likely tell you it would be a violation of the copyright assuming you don't have the resources to get a decednt opinion on the issue. Then again, they may view this as an opportunity and welcome your offer Tom Mahon. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:38:58 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Bowser T-1 update (was Bowser goofed..) Content-Length: 3998 Michael DiMaio wrote: >well the t-1 tender is done as is detailing the boiler. I actually >built the driver mechanism w/o any screwing around w/ binds in the >mechanism which is usual for a bowser. mount motors later today. >have you decided whether to use th open frasme ones or put in can >ones? Dear Michael, I hope you don't mind, but I though others in PRR-talk might like to hear our progress so I've posted this to the group. Wow, you're moving even faster than I am! I am 3/4 done with the drive mechanism. I put the open frame motors on with just the side rods in place and tried it on my 28" radius test track with the loco shell and tender in place. VERY NICE!!!!. First conclusion: With 28" mins, you don't see the frame articulation, therefore no need to "rigidize" Second conclusion: I've assembled something wrong as somewhere something keeps shorting out the loco on the curves. The insulated wheels are on the correct side of the trucks. These momentary shorts would be no problem with a power pack, but they completely shut down my DCC system for a 5 second reset! I see sparks between the tender and truck side frames, but these should be the same polarity! I am investigating further... Last night I added the main rods, and started on the valve gear. So far, I've been very careful and only had to ream out about 50% of the holes for the rods. I had binds though, but they were caused by the main rods binding against the valve gear hanges, which in my kit arrived as rather mangled pieces (nothing a little rebending didn't fix). The binds were resolved with a little careful manipulation of the hangers. I cannot use the open frame motors with DCC decoders, therefore I will go with a can motor(s). I plan on forming the new motor mount out of brass stock, and at least for now, will simply duplicate the Bowser set-up. The big difference will be the the cans are insulated from the frame, an ABSOLUTE MUST for DCC. I will also add flywheels. Another problem I had was the the "flexible coupling" for the motors wasn't flexible enough for me. Also, the spring for the pilot truck is too stiff, leading to lifting of the front drivers. I am considering a single (big) can motor with universal joints to drive the forward engine drivers. Obviously, some sort of mount will still be required up front to attach the boiler! I have resolved my tender concerns for now - My wife suggested using the Bowser as a "stand in" and then scratch build an accurate version using the Bowser as a guide - I have to love that woman's confidence in my abilities! I am still considering milling the back off of the tender, and detailing it correctly for an early 1950's time frame (perfect for the PRRMO layout). Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRRMO] Electrical: Turnout control Date: Fri, 10 Apr 98 10:03:07 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1317 On 4/10/98 9:07 AM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: >the decoder "remembers" its ID. plug in another controllewr and the >decoder is still addressable. That's good news. I vote DCC whenever possible, especially when it involves main line routing. My idea: On the PRRMO site, we'll maintain a table of DCC ID's that have been assigned to locos and turnouts. I'll create an "operations manual" that is small enough for operators to carry at meets. Each page will show a module along with all of the DCC codes for that module. That way, you can be anywhere along the layout and control any DCC turnout with an advanced throttle. Same "manual" would also list loco IDs. What do you think? ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:58:35 EDT Subject: [PRR] Bowser T-1 update (was Bowser goofed..) Content-Length: 1985 In a message dated 98-04-10 09:41:10 EDT, Bruce writes: << The big difference will be the the cans are insulated from the frame, an ABSOLUTE MUST for DCC. >> On the M1 helix humper motor, I formed a u-shell of .005 styrene between motor and frame and used Kadee nylon 2-56 screws (had to tap one of the holes, since Bowser uses a self-tapping screw). The .005 is thin enough compared to tape, e.g., so it doesn't affect the gear mesh. <> I realize now you want a 1950 version. I did want to reassure you and others that the use of the fully shrouded tender with deportholed and deshrouded locomotive was prototypically correct on a few locomotives in late 40's There is a photo in Pennsy Steam Vol. 1 of a unit fully shrouded at back --photo not good enough to see if the steam line was exposed -- doesn't loook like it. Also, Pennsy Glory Years 3 video shows deshrouded T1 loco on the Curve with fully shrouded tender. OTOH, the photo in Pennsy Power ! which shows the same is a company photo which was probably retouched so I wouldn't use that as my source. Just got my M1 up and running on DCC layout--smooth as silk--even ran through a double slip switch better than P2K diesels. Regards Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Michael DiMaio" Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:10:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser T-1 update (was Bowser goofed..) Content-Length: 3122 I hope you noticed that the valve gear is shown one way in the photographed model, and differently in the exploded drawing oif the same. I resolved the matter byt looking at my 20 year old Bowser T-1 and my Alco brass T-1 which can take 18 inch radii. Follow the photographs. Your problems with the nechanisms were the same as mine. I had a) to rebend the hanger and B) nip off the ends at the farthest point away from the steam chest. The main rods hung up at that point. I had more problems with the rear drivers than the front ones. I have painted the frame and steam chest, reassembled both mechanisms, and mounted both motors. You need six hands to do it. For the front set of drivers, i inserted the motor upside down ina hobby vice, held my breath, and mounted the motor. With the rear drivers, I held the motor and lowered onto the frame. It took several attempts. I tightened the tension until the worm and gear engaged. I have yet to put power on the mechanism, tho I have rotated the armature and the wheels turn and i can feel no binds. Is this loco really manufctured by Bowser? It is going together w/o enough frustartion! I will have my dealer check out the gears to see whether i have engaged them enough. Later today power! BTW, Bruce, did your kit come with a hex head tool for the driver screws? Mine did not. Also you nay have notice that there were no directions for the placing of decals on the tender as thewre were in earlier sets of directions. Hmmm onm thge front truck spring, nip off a bit, you ultimately will have more trouble with the nut that holds the truck in place. It always comes off and does wonders to the mechanism. A drop of locktite, or if you are brave, expoxy or acc will hold the nut in in place.. You could, if you had the equipment make a one piece bracket to replace both s-brackets on top the motors and you would have a rigid frame.. If you do make a bracket, share it with joe Zappa. I personally think that if Bowser did not do it, it won't be an easy task. BTW, if i understand you, the casting was not heavy enough to hold down the errant front spring? Perhaps Bowser should have cast the boiler from depleted uranium! No problem about weight, tho superdetailing mite have been a problem especially since it might take some effort to drill thru the stuff w/ a ny kind of drill!!!! More later today!!! > Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:38:58 -0500 > Dear Michael, > > I hope you don't mind, but I though others in PRR-talk might like to hear > our progress so I've posted this to the group. > Michael DiMaio, Ph.D. Department of Philosophy Salve Regina University Newport, RI 02920 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Michael DiMaio" Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:14:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser T-1 update (was Bowser goofed..) Content-Length: 2878 God, I would love to put cans in mine, but I dont have enough of a machine shop to do so. It would be nice you could share the diagrams for the can project. > From: Bobspf > Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:58:35 EDT > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Bowser T-1 update (was Bowser goofed..) > In a message dated 98-04-10 09:41:10 EDT, Bruce writes: > > << The > big difference will be the the cans are insulated from the frame, an > ABSOLUTE MUST for DCC. >> > > On the M1 helix humper motor, I formed a u-shell of .005 styrene between motor > and frame and used Kadee nylon 2-56 screws (had to tap one of the holes, > since Bowser uses a self-tapping screw). The .005 is thin enough compared to > tape, e.g., so it doesn't affect the gear mesh. > > < Bowser as a "stand in" and then scratch build an accurate version using the > Bowser as a guide - I have to love that woman's confidence in my abilities! > I am still considering milling the back off of the tender, and detailing it > correctly for an early 1950's time frame (perfect for the PRRMO layout).>> > > I realize now you want a 1950 version. I did want to reassure you and others > that the use of the fully shrouded tender with deportholed and deshrouded > locomotive was prototypically correct on a few locomotives in late 40's > There is a photo in Pennsy Steam Vol. 1 of a unit fully shrouded at back > --photo not good enough to see if the steam line was exposed -- doesn't loook > like it. > Also, Pennsy Glory Years 3 video shows deshrouded T1 loco on the Curve with > fully shrouded tender. > OTOH, the photo in Pennsy Power ! which shows the same is a company photo > which was probably retouched so I wouldn't use that as my source. > > Just got my M1 up and running on DCC layout--smooth as silk--even ran through > a double slip switch better than P2K diesels. > > Regards > > > Bob Zoeller > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > Michael DiMaio, Ph.D. Department of Philosophy Salve Regina University Newport, RI 02920 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:20:14 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: PRRMO Electrical: Turnout control Content-Length: 598 With heavy traffic, mainline turnout control should probably be by the Dispatcher(s) and siding control by train crews. Imagine the mass confusion with 4 track mainline traffic and individual operators trying to control crossovers! Harold ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Michael DiMaio" Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:14:25 -0500 Subject: [PRR] T-1 decal positioning Content-Length: 893 The new Bowser T-1 directions lack infor on where the ecals on the tender go, something which was present in the older version of the model which goes back to the 80s and earlier. If any one has this set of older directions (specifically the directions on decalling), I would appreciate a fax of them. The fax number is 14019431086. Please call first so I can engage the fax modem. It will be engaged for the next several hours. Michael DiMaio, Ph.D. Department of Philosophy Salve Regina University Newport, RI 02920 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Liberty" Subject: [PRR] Re: Bowser T1 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:29:20 -0400 Content-Length: 1236 Well, Michael and Bruce, you are both ahead of me. So far all I have done was to machine off the grossly over scale steps and sheilds from the pilot area ! I am going to replace these with brass to have the proper scale look and 'flow through' steps. I have studied the T1 kit and photo's, and have got the idea that by cutting off the nose right in front of the stack opening, and just past the 'coves' (side of boiler), that I could then create the 'porthole' pilot/nose as a casting - possibly in pewter, that would slip into the body as a replacement. It would have a flange that would have at least 2 holes to allow one to use screws in conjunction with epoxy to hold the 'new' nose/pilot in place...... Anyone interested ?? I appreciate the information that both of you have shared in the building of your T1's Joe Zappa, Liberty Model Productions ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harmantas, Andrew G." Subject: RE: [PRR] Morning Sun Books Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:46:11 -0400 Content-Length: 1897 > Has anyone noticed any problems with their Morning Sun books? I have > noticed > several of my older (10+ years) books having terrible color shifts in the > pictures. Pennsy Diesels Vol 1 and Tidewater Triangle seem to be the > worst. _____________________ I see the same color shift in the very same Morning Sun books you mentioned, AND in a few others from other publishers. Since you have the same effect in yours, I am assuming it affects the entire edition, so might not be unique to your particular volume. Unless you are leaving your books out in the sunlight all day for months at a time with each page exposed, I doubt that the printed color photos will show any sign of color shift or other deterioration in as short a time as ten years. Color printing is a real fun deal, and is difficult to pull off. I can give you personal horror stories about color printing gone wrong, and finding out about it AFTER ten thousand whatevers have come off the press, dried, been bound shipped, and gone. Generally, if, in the same book, some of the color reproductions are good, while others are weak, it's because that's what the originals looked like. If all the color in the entire book is off, weak, too purple, too light, (or name your own), it's a problem in the production run either in the color separation, or the color lithography. Think carefully back to the time you first looked at the pages of the books in question. I bet the color shift was there at that time. Later, Andrew Harmantas ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:11:39 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser T-1 update (was Bowser goofed..) Content-Length: 1076 In a message dated 98-04-10 12:43:30 EDT, you write: << God, I would love to put cans in mine, but I dont have enough of a machine shop to do so. It would be nice you could share the diagrams for the can project. >> I presume this was directed at Bruce. My can motor was in an M1 (commercially available helix humper motor). I anxiously await if they will do one for the T1. They have done one for an 0-4-0. I presume the T1 would be two 0-4-0s. BTW, I am perhaps naively going on the assumption that the two open frame Pittmans won't blow my 1.5 amp decoder until can motors are available. Anyone know of a source for a nonmetallic 4-40 x 1/4 FH screw to insulate the motor for DCC? Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Michael DiMaio" Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:38:33 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser T-1 update (was Bowser goofed..) Content-Length: 1031 Put each unit of drivers up on block and attached wires to s bracket and ground lead and turned on the juice!! They wroked beautifully. Only one prob..the lubricator on the rear set of drivers. It got booted out of the system. Bent it away from the valve gear reglued and powered it up again and all is ok. Be careful , everyone, with the lubricators on the rear drivers. It bunmps right up gainst the valve gear hanger. Hanger or lubricator has to be adjusted to keep them from making contact with ecah other. Now has any one put in the Seuthe smoke units yet? Michael DiMaio, Ph.D. Department of Philosophy Salve Regina University Newport, RI 02920 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Michael DiMaio" Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:50:28 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Running the T-1 Content-Length: 1561 Well I put the boiler on the mechanism and ran it back and forth on 3 feet of flex track. If you remember, I had detailed the boiler and, because of this I learned the following: 1) if the loco had a rigid frame, it would run with all the detail glued or soldered in the holes drilled by bowser. 2) if one plans to use it articulated, then some creative engineering is needed because the front two drivers hang up on the air pump on the left hand side of the loco( assuming one is in the cab) and because the two lubricators mounted on the left hand side of the boiler prevent a full swing of the rear set of drivers and keep the valve gear from properly working. The problem of the air pump will be cure with a set of rail nippers removing the part of the pump that prevents the swing of the front truck. The two body mountrd lubricators have to be moved or left off. I plan to move them. Another option woulkd be to put a washer between the bushings where the screws from the boiler mate with the s-bracket on the motors. This might make the problem worse. more later. Michael DiMaio, Ph.D. Department of Philosophy Salve Regina University Newport, RI 02920 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 01:32:32 -0400 From: John W Rosenbauer Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser T-1 update (was Bowser goofed..) Content-Length: 611 Bobspf wrote: > Anyone know of a source for a nonmetallic 4-40 x 1/4 FH screw to insulate the > motor for DCC? > > Bob Zoeller Bob, try this. http://www.microfasteners.com/nylons.htm Have fun, John W Rosenbauer Remove NOSPAM to reply. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Cumb Valley Branch Passenger Traffic Date: Sat, 11 Apr 98 13:47:03 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 2008 Trying to find out what kind of passenger traffic went on the Cumberland Valley Branch in the 1954 era. Specifically interested in traffic from Harrisburg station, over the CV bridge, past LEMO tower. This part is represented on my layout and will exit into hidden staging. I checked out Mark Bej's page in the "Hobo's Guide" on "Keystone Crossings". It states that passenger service lasted until "196x". Back to 1954. Anyone know how many trains? What types of consists? Etc. A Sept. 1954 Employee Timetable (Philly Div., I think) would be especially useful. Anyone got one? RELATED: My layout is seeing a lot of improvements. I'll post new designs shortly. Improvements include: * My "west" staging now has seven staging tracks and three stub sidings in addition to the through tracks. There had been only three staging tracks. * Trains south/west out of York, bound for Hanover and Frederick, may now be represented. A hidden turnout leads to a hidden staging yard. * The CV bridge out of Harrisburg now leads to hidden staging beyond LEMO tower, allowing Cumberland Valley Branch consists to be represented * Tracks 3 & 4 in the Harrisburg passenger station now cross-connect and have a lead (per prototype) onto the CV bridge. However, this lead will actually pass out of site behind the CV bridge to hidden staging, allowing me to stage consists for/from Philadelphia, New York, etc. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:43:28 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Cumb Valley Branch Passenger Traffic Content-Length: 1877 Greetings to Jerry and the list: PRR's Cumberland Valley passenger service as of September 26, 1954, consisted of the following two daily trains. They were timed for overnight NY-Roanoke traffic, and the through car was a NY-Roanoke 10/6 sleeper. Westbound/southbound (Connect from Train 1, Pennsylvania Ltd., lv NY Penn at 6:55 pm, ar Hbg. 10:12 pm) Train 645 Lv Harrisburg 10:30 pm Ar Mechanicsburg 10:46 pm Ar Carlisle 11:03 pm Ar Newville 11:25 pm Ar Shippensburg 11:42 pm Ar Chambersburg 12:09 am Ar Greencastle 12:31 am Ar Hagerstown, Md. 12:55 am connect to N&W train Ar Roanoke, Va. 9:25 am Eastbound/northbound Lv Roanoke, Va. 6:30 pm Connect to PRR Train 638 Lv Hagerstown, Md. 1:45 am Ar Greencastle 1:59 am Ar Chambersburg 2:17 am Ar Shippensburg 2:36 am Ar Newville --- Ar Carlisle 3:07 am Ar Mechanicsburg 3:26 am Ar Harrisburg 3:50 am (Connect with No. 60, the Pittsburgher, lv Hbg 4:10 am, ar NY Penn 8 am) Daylight passenger service on the CV ended in 1952 (June 30, 1952, timetable shows the service; Sept. 28, 1952, timetable shows service reduced to the one overnight train (638/645) each way. Daylight service consisted of a morning train (No. 640) inbound to Harrisburg leaving Hagerstown at 4:30 am and arriving Harrisburg at 6:40 am; westbound No. 643 left Harrisburg at 4:14 pm and got to Hagerstown at 6:40 pm. Hope this is what you're looking for. Dan Dan Cupper cupper@ibm.net Happy Easter: "He is risen!" ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:43:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Fwd: Spruce Creek bridge article Content-Length: 912 On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Jerry_Britton wrote: > Coming in April NMRA Bulletin: > > Page 46 Spruce Creek > Learn how to build one of the most unique structures on the railroad - the > skewed-arch stone bridge. Bob Beecher has come up with a technique that > makes it easy, and shares it here. Although written about an N-scale > project, the technique can be applied to any scale. All dimensions are > given in scale feet, so large-scaler's need fear not. Indeed, it arrived today. Quite interesting, looks at least worth a try -D ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:41:33 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] re:MP's N6b Not quite right Content-Length: 1251 Hey yuze gize, Everyone before you storm your local train show for a Model Power N-6B caboose look twice. One of the most glaring errors with the model is not the end detail, not the end sill or the steps, it is the cuppola is too narrow, and the list goes on. Most things we can deal with; however, this error is not so easy to overcome. It comes down to compromise, can you live with it? I think the best thing that could happen is that we see one relesed in resin, agreed? Nonetheless, the N6B is on my work bench for an article utilizing the Model Powers kit, will I correct the cuppola? I can't say at this point. I am not sure that it can be done easily enough that you could model a fleet without using your modelers licsense to get them done. But if someone were to release one in resin I would buy them. Watching from LINES way out WEST, Greg Martin Salem, OR ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 00:54:34 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Letering standard? Content-Length: 748 Derrick, Yes you are right there are 2 different lettering diagrams for the freight sharks. They were published in Rails Noertheast years ago. I modeled an A-B-A set several years back and I did one of the A unit in one scheme and the other in the second scheme. It would be nice to have them both posted on Jerry's webpage. Watching from LINES way out WEST, Greg MArtin Salem, OR ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:00:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Letering standard? Content-Length: 840 On Sun, 12 Apr 1998, TGREGMRTN wrote: > Yes you are right there are 2 different lettering diagrams for the freight > sharks. They were published in Rails Noertheast years ago. I modeled an A-B-A > set several years back and I did one of the A unit in one scheme and the other > in the second scheme. It would be nice to have them both posted on Jerry's > webpage. This is the magazine where there are no back issues, right? :-( Guess I'll work from the photos -D ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BudPCCRR Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 06:24:05 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: Rails Northeast Content-Length: 434 Re: back issues. Any chance they are in the NMRA library? Bud Brock ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 16:31:18 +0100 From: "John H. Wright" Subject: [PRR] T1s 6110 & 6111 (request for info) Content-Length: 1629 (New to prr-talk) I have an old Gem T1 which I'm trying to rebuild so that it can stand beside my Sunset T1 without looking too bad in quality & detail. The loco is running well after re-motoring with a Mashima 18-33 and NWSL drive shafts and will pull a dozen or more heavyweights around my layout. After much thought I have decided that the Gem T1 is probably closest to the original pair in terms of the front fairing & prow than the final 50 though, sadly, it corresponds to neither. I have come to terms with the fact that there will have to be major surgery on the front end and cab windows, but my major concern is lack of photographs. I need to get hold of some decent shots of either 6110 or 6111(I don't mind having to model the booster) in their second condition with original front-end fairing but raised skirts. I have a photo of 6111 in Don Ball Jr's "Pennsylvania Railroad 1940s- 1950s" but that is all. Can anyone suggest sources in mags or books that I might get in the UK, please? Going back to last year's discussion on Bowser locos. If anyone is interested, I have re-motored, re-geared, re-wheeled & detailed an L1 and an I1 and would be happy to pass on my findings. -- John H. Wright Washington Tyne & Wear England ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kevin Tully" Subject: [PRR] [PRRMO] re: Turnouts Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 10:53:03 PDT Content-Length: 4410 To all PRRMO, I've been reading the posts involving this turnout issue, and would like to interject some observations from my own experiance with modular layouts and shows. I would make the suggestion that the switches used be Peco. Here are my reasons: 1. Electrically charged frogs. In my experiance with the last club I belonged to, your always going to get people bringing steam and some diesel (re: brass) that only picks up on one side or the other. The electric frogs delete the problem of the locomotives loosing power while traversing a switch frog. Now, I know you can wire the frogs to be charged on other name brands, but why do more than you have to? 2. Dependability. In the three modular layouts I've helped to build and maintain, Peco switchs are the most dependable, and strongest made. They stand up to moving and being rough handled (whether by members, or in the back of a truck). They pay little attention to humidity levels, and stay in guage no matter what (short of actual destruction). 3. Block control. Now I know the PRRMO layout will be DCC controlled, but the feature of having the actual switch points control the power to a siding/spur is a nice feature. Members who will be using the 0000 code to run a straight DC locomotive (for what ever reason) have the ability to pull into a siding and "turn off" their locomotive without having to remove it from the layout. This allows others without DCC to have their power on the layout, also without having to remove it and allow a like person to run. 4. Overbuilt tiebars, and positive throw. The internal spring in a Peco turnout that "throws" the points is a good advantage if, for nothing else, the point get positivly thrown against eather rail, providing for better contact. Also, the way the tiebars are attached to the points are almost overbuilt, without looking that way. Again, durability. This "positive throw" also eliminates the need for Red Caboose (or a simular product) ground throws. We had a slew of these on our second modular layout, and over the period of five show and a year, most were broken off and replaced, or just plain broken off. 5. Price. For the quality of the turnouts, the Peco beats Shinohara (also Walthers). I would like to remind you all that no matter how carefully modules get handled, they take alot of abuse, and can't be built like an ordinary layout. The handling, shipping in pickup beds, and storage take a toll on modules, and they must be overbuilt to last. I would also like to recommend a connecter for the electrical ends of the modules. We found this to work well, and also stand up to abuse and have good durability. They are simular to a four-flat trailer connecter, but they have only two terminals, one female, one male. Anyone familure with the auto parts store will know what I mean. The advantage to these is that they are universal, and don't cost much. They have a rubber housing, and are easily attached with a couple of but end crimp connecters. As for the way to join the mods together, we got away from the "C" clamp affair, and went to a buckle (simular to what is on a pair of ski boots, or a foot locker). The female/cam end goes on the right side of the mod (as you look at the end) and the mail goes on the left. This allows the device that hold the mods together to be attached to the mod. That way you don't get to a show with not enough "C" clamps. Also, the "cam" action of the connecter alows a firm, positive joining of the mods, and still allows for a slight bit of adjustment. Just some ideas to ponder. The club I belonged to in Alaska is now using these methods, and is now able to set up a trouble free layout of ten modules plus corners in about 30 minutes. The switches ALWAYS work, and assembly is a snap. Kevin ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2 Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 16:24:13 EDT Subject: [PRR] "Painting Of PRR Locomotives And Tenders"/Copies sent Content-Length: 769 To those who asked, I have received only three stamped self addressed envelops for copies of the "The Painting Of P.R.R. Locomotives And Tenders" Special Publication No. 1 by P.R.& I.A. Those of you who e-mailed me for my surface mail address and have not mailed yours yet please get going (there are at least ten more of you out there). John Keel, Andrew Harmantas and Mike Campbell yours are on the way! Ed ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 15:38:55 -0500 From: rboydrrs@inlink.com (Robert A. Boyd) Subject: [PRR] homework assignments Content-Length: 1646 Hello all, I'd like to ask your help on a couple of small projects on "The Limited". First off, I am looking for brief summaries of specific passenger trains: - the primary RPO/express train on Lines East, Lines West-Chicago and Lines West St. Louis. - specific info on the Admiral and Liberty Limited. I am looking to create a thumbnail sketch for each giving their history, routes, consists, clientile and schedules. I have been putting off on following up with details for long enough, and hope to start filling in the all too many blanks in PRR coverage in the next few weeks. Any info you can provide (especially you Lines West types!) will really help. Also: In "Those Classic Trains" there is a public opinion poll on passenger modeling issues. As the site is not all that well known yet, I hope to pull in more input than I have been receiving thus far. Please take a moment to drop by and put in your speak about your passenger modeling interests. Thanks many! Bob Robert A. Boyd Those Classic Trains "Beginning A Century-Long Tradition Of Fine Modelmaking." ========================================================== "The Limited" On Line - http://www.thoseclassictrains.com The Golden Age Of Railroad Passenger Service ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 13:37:54 -0700 From: ironhorse@sprintmail.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Rails Northeast Content-Length: 1300 BudPCCRR wrote: > > Re: back issues. > Any chance they are in the NMRA library? > Bud Brock > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". Greetings, I've been trying to get a few issues myself to fill in some gaps in my collection, but unfortunately have never had any luck at the NMRA having any. Guess they must be too valuable to just give away, because I don't think they buy anything; just take as donations and sell off duplicates. Do what I do and look n the classified sections of the major model RR and prototype RR mags and contact the people who advertise there regularly. Charlie Fox ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Goldsboro PA Date: Mon, 13 Apr 98 09:21:04 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1777 I borrowed a book from the York County (Pa.) Library System on the history of Newberry Township (where I live). There is an aerial photo of Goldsboro and the caption reads "circa 1900". It shows all four tracks in place (2 Northern Central Railway, 2 Atglen & Susquehanna) so it would actually be 1902 or later, I believe. For reference, if we call the track closest to the river track 1, it looks like there is a crossover from track 2 to track 3 when travelling northbound, and from track 3 to track 4 when travelling southbound. I am going to scan the photo to try to get a digital closeup, but I don't think it will be conclusive...given the resolution of the original photo and the distance (from a plane). I don't see any other evidence of crossovers, so it is not an interlocking plant. Note that Cly Interlocking is approximately two miles south of this location. LEMO tower is about 8 miles north. On all later track charts, there is no evidence of any crossovers in the area. Cly Interlocking is the only place until you get to a junction just short of Enola yard (above LEMO). Can anyone shed light on this? Perhaps it was a temporary crossover before Cly Interlocking was completed? --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:47:17 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Rails Northeast Content-Length: 509 The going rate for back issues of Rails Northeast is $7 - 10 per issue when you cna find them. Several of the more rare issues are much more. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 12:02:35 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: [PRR] Yorkrail at Enola Content-Length: 1254 Jerry_Britton wrote: > > YorkRail and Ma&Pa diesels > lashed up together and sitting outside the diesel shop. > Don't know if they were there for service of some sort, or had just > dropped off or were picking up a consist to run down to York. > I believe Conrail normally runs the cars to York, so perhaps they were > both in for service. YorkRail and Ma&Pa are owned by the same company (Emons); Ma&Pa is the union-crew railroad; YorkRail is the nonunion one. Engines from both have shown up at Enola in the past for wheel truing, so perhaps that's what these ones are doing there now. Conrail wouldn't allow Emons to haul freight over CR lines unless there was a very unusual circumstance. For one thing, the CR unionized crews on that line would probably strike, or immediately timecard CR for a day's pay, or both. Dan Dan Cupper cupper@ibm.net Romans 10:9-10 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:56:16 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Hunter" Subject: Re: [PRR] Morning Sun Books Content-Length: 1706 Roger- Color shifts? I haven't noticed any in my copies, and I don't keep mine in a controlled environment. Anybody else having this problem? Jim On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Huber25 wrote: > Has anyone noticed any problems with their Morning Sun books? I have noticed > several of my older (10+ years) books having terrible color shifts in the > pictures. Pennsy Diesels Vol 1 and Tidewater Triangle seem to be the worst. > I'm very concerned as I have most of the books they've published and I don't > want to lose all my books or waste money on any more. > > My books are kept in my spare bedroom on glass shelves and the humidity and > temperature are constant. They are not subjected to light or smoke. Also, I > have had no problems with books that are older or from different publishers so > I'm inclined to believe the problem is with Morning Sun. > > I would appreciate any feedback I can get form readers as to similar problems. > > Roger, SPF > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:04:23 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Hunter" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Bachman 2-8-0 Content-Length: 1742 Jerry- Yes, but Pennsy had all those Belpair boilers! I've seen many plastic steamers lettered PRR, but none with the correct firebox. Jim On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Jerry Shickler wrote: > Paintloco wrote: > > > > Sirs, > > > > I see on the MR web page that the 6/98 issue will review the Bachman Baldwin > > 54" drivered 2-8-0. Has anyone seen it in the shops? I heard it was delayed > > until 12/98... > > Ken Patterson, who photographed them for the MR review, said they are > VERY nice. Brass-like detail, very smooth & quiet, and heavy. List price > about $100, street price should be about $70. Bachmann redid their > SD45, and they are said to be every bit as good as the Kato, and can be > had for $36. Its good to have another choice. Let's hope they come out > with a Pennsy version of the 2-8-0. I could be wrong, but I thought I > read somewhere that PRR had more Consolidations than all other rr's > combined. > > -- > Jerry Shickler > e-mail: geshick@velocity.net > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Looking for NRHS/Harrisburg Contact Date: Mon, 13 Apr 98 12:12:58 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1190 I'm looking for a contact within the Harrisburg Chapter of the NRHS. Are there any online? Specifically, I am looking for access to a track chart on display within HARRIS tower. It's on the tower operator's desk and is under a loose piece of glass. I took a photo of it at a recent Open House, but it did not come out well enough for my needs. Would like to negotiate a loan of it for a few hours for scanning. I am modeling Harrisburg station and this chart would be extremely useful. A portion of the same chart appeared in a recent "Keystone", but it did not have enough detail nor did it include all of what I need. Thanks. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Rails Northeast Date: Mon, 13 Apr 98 12:15:31 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1019 On 4/13/98 11:47 AM, SUVCW ORR (SUVCWORR@aol.com) wrote: >The going rate for back issues of Rails Northeast is $7 - 10 per issue when >you cna find them. Several of the more rare issues are much more. I got extremely lucky. When Jeremy Helms bailed out of all of his PRR stuff, he didn't include his Rails Northeast issues in his list. Instead, it was somewhat hidden within a paragraph of his long post. I acquired half of the issues (around 30-35) for only $30!!! --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] New Bachman 2-8-0 From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 98 13:45:46 -0400 Content-Length: 2351 There are too mant PRR-unique features to mention. Unless they cast a new boiler shell for a PRR H6,8,9,or 10, just lettering their engine PENNSYLVANIA will no more make it a PRR consol than letting UNITED AIRLINES would make it a 767! Andy Miller ========= Jerry- Yes, but Pennsy had all those Belpair boilers! I've seen many plastic steamers lettered PRR, but none with the correct firebox. Jim On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Jerry Shickler wrote: > Paintloco wrote: > > > > Sirs, > > > > I see on the MR web page that the 6/98 issue will review the Bachman Baldwin > > 54" drivered 2-8-0. Has anyone seen it in the shops? I heard it was delayed > > until 12/98... > > Ken Patterson, who photographed them for the MR review, said they are > VERY nice. Brass-like detail, very smooth & quiet, and heavy. List price > about $100, street price should be about $70. Bachmann redid their > SD45, and they are said to be every bit as good as the Kato, and can be > had for $36. Its good to have another choice. Let's hope they come out > with a Pennsy version of the 2-8-0. I could be wrong, but I thought I > read somewhere that PRR had more Consolidations than all other rr's > combined. > > -- > Jerry Shickler > e-mail: geshick@velocity.net > > - ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > - ----------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:06:15 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Morning Sun Books Content-Length: 1080 At first I thought this was another candidate for the Henny Penny awards (just announced nationally) for which we on the PRR-talk list are prone to compete:-) (which is why Jerry's April Fool posting sucked some of us in, at least at first). However, I just checked my Vol. 1 Diesel Years and either it is the power of suggestion or it is true. My Vol. 1 photos, page after page, seem pale and washed out compared to Vol. 5. Other volumes at least have enough high contrast, color rich photos to keep the jury out. Now I just don't know if Vol. 1 ever had any really sharp photos. Question is what to do about it. I was in blissful ignorance before and now I have more dissonance in my life(:-). Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:27:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Morning Sun Books Content-Length: 762 On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, Bobspf wrote: > However, I just checked my Vol. 1 Diesel Years and either it is the power of > suggestion or it is true. My Vol. 1 photos, page after page, seem pale and > washed out compared to Vol. 5. The color printing technique used in every copy of PDY1 I've ever seen looks different from the rest, as you describe, but the book was like that the day I got it. -D ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Morning Sun Books Date: Mon, 13 Apr 98 14:33:24 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 2232 On 4/13/98 2:06 PM, Bobspf (Bobspf@aol.com) wrote: >However, I just checked my Vol. 1 Diesel Years and either it is the power of >suggestion or it is true. My Vol. 1 photos, page after page, seem pale and >washed out compared to Vol. 5. > >Other volumes at least have enough high contrast, color rich photos to keep >the jury out. Now I just don't know if Vol. 1 ever had any really sharp >photos. >Question is what to do about it. I was in blissful ignorance before and now I >have more dissonance in my life(:-). Having spent several years in the production side of the publishing business, I can tell you that this is often caused by one of three factors: the environment, the ink, the paper. The environment you can't always control. However, I don't think it is a factor here. It would cause all of a person's books to fade, perhaps, and not affect others. Here you have a trend of books from the same publisher. As for paper and ink, corners are cut to save costs. Paper can continue to absorb ink for some time, even though dry to the touch. However, it is probably an ink issue. Environmental controls regarding the disposition of "by products" from the printing process has increased costs over the past few decades. Printers must charge more to cover their disposal costs, but publishers aren't always willing to pay more. Often they settle on safe, though less quality inks. One publisher that I occassionally do consulting work for actually has his books printed in Hong Kong...because they still use the better inks but don't have the environmental controls! Sounds like Morning Sun has cut corners...at least in the past. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Huber25 Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:48:18 EDT Subject: [PRR] Faded Books Content-Length: 1211 Thanks for all the responses to my question. I agree that all the copies of PRRDY V1 and Tidewater Triangle that I've ever seen were not as bright, clear, colorful, whatever you want to call them as the following issues and their other books. However now my older MSB's are getting very purple and dull. No other book publisher seems to be exhibiting this tendency so I feel it is a problem common only to MSB and their (hopefully) early printing materials. Time only will tell if their newer books do the same thing. I certainly hope not for all of us but until I get a response from MSB about the situation I can not see wasting $50 on any more of their books. I have a lot of railroad books including almost everything they've produced (missing that NYC stuff) so my books are a large investment to me and I'm very concerned about this. Roger ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:02:54 +0100 From: "John H. Wright" Subject: [PRR] T1s 6110 & 6111 (follow up) Content-Length: 1817 My sincere thanks to those of you who helped me in my search for photos of these two locomotives. Most kind. I have copies of Pennsy Power I & III and can borrow a copy of II, also the Cyclopedia Vol. 1. I've also got Mainline Modeller April 1982 (good photos and drawings) by Bert Pennypacker and the Duplex Loco Profile. I must apologise because, perhaps, it wasn't clear in my original request that I had plenty of photos of 6110 as built (it's always seems to be 6110 in these views) but lacked shots of 6110 & 6111 when they had had their side skirts raised but still had the porthole front fairing. I was pleased to have my attention drawn to PP I, since I had overlooked the picture of 6110 on the Altoona Test Plant. Was the piping over the firebox that different to the other 50 locomotives? I'm very interested in Joe Zappa's posting. As I look at the GEM T1 from where I'm sitting (above & to rear) the front prow actual takes a slight upward curve. It's probably one of those irritating features that only those who are involved with a model ever notice...but its there...its awful...and its got to go. I'm very tempted to put the whole project on hold until Joe's new nose is available when I will have the possibility of making it into any one of the 52. One final question.....the GEM T1 has no whistle it seems, nor any place where one should be. Anyone know? -- John H. Wright Washington Tyne & Wear England ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:09:34 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Hunter" Subject: Re: [PRR] Morning Sun Books Content-Length: 549 Bob- I suspect that the editor of Morning Sun Books simply had access to better quality photos for his later volumes, and perhaps has been able to use better printing processes. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Joe Gotaskie" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Paint You Use For Dulux? Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:02:19 -0400 Content-Length: 436 I've found that Floquil's UP Armor Yellow is a match for Champs Dulux Gold. Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:05:24 -0600 From: Dick Taylor Subject: Re: [PRR] New Bachman 2-8-0 Content-Length: 754 jhunter@iupui.edu wrote: > > Jerry- > > Yes, but Pennsy had all those Belpair boilers! I've seen many > plastic steamers lettered PRR, but none with the correct firebox. > > Jim > Didn't Roundhouse offer a 2-8-0 with a Belpair? I think it had a few other faux pas that might rub a SPF the wrong way, but it did have the right shapped boiler! Dick Taylor ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:26:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] New Bachman 2-8-0 Content-Length: 729 On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, Dick Taylor wrote: > Didn't Roundhouse offer a 2-8-0 with a Belpair? I think it had a few > other faux pas that might rub a SPF the wrong way, but it did have the > right shapped boiler! > If I'm not mistaken Roundhouse still offers a bunch of what they call "Pennsy-style" steamers, which I figure has to be the Belpaire boilers.... -D ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:00:37 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] New Bachman 2-8-0 (Roundhouse) Content-Length: 769 In a message dated 98-04-13 19:39:15 EDT, you write: > > If I'm not mistaken Roundhouse still offers a bunch of what they call > "Pennsy-style" steamers, which I figure has to be the Belpaire boilers.... Roundhouse has 2-6-0 Mogul , 2-6-2 Prairie (a never never engine) 2-8-0 Consolidated, 4-4-2 Atlantic, and a 4-6-0 Ten Wheeler all with the Belpaire fireboxs Harold Modeling the Middle Division ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2 Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:15:50 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Rails Northeast/ God Bless Bob Reid Content-Length: 788 Rich ann All, I can remember talking with Bob Reid of PC Railroader/Rails Northeast years ago and the hobby shops wouldn't pay for the copies they had. Bob drove his car up to Conway to sell me back issues, which he also couldn't move. The poor guy put everything he had into that magazine for years and lost just about everything. Here was a very devoted Pennsy fan, twenty years ahead of his time. Ed Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:14:19 -0400 From: Larry and Phyllis Morgan Subject: [PRR] The Ruben Well and the old Madison Branch Content-Length: 1555 The Indianapolis Children's Museum is upgrading an old exhibit. For a long time the Ruben Wells has been in the basement of the Children's Museum. The Ruben Wells handled the grade at Madison for many years under the flag of the PRR. For those who do not know, the grade at Madison was the steepest in the PRR system, indeed the steepest for a class one railroad in the U. S. The old Madison and Indianapolis Railroad was the first railroad in the state of Indiana. Later the system was a part of the PRR Lines West. The plans call for turning the Ruben Wells into an active participant in an active exhibit. Lighting and sound will make it appear the Ruben Wells is leaving the station and moving to a Garden Scale recreation of "the hill". It will be as though you move from the station to looking down on the grades from a nearby "hill". Phyllis and I are on two committees--fund raising and model back-drops. I am looking for any suggestions, ideas, or places I can contact for appropriate information. I would like to have information about other organizations that may be interested in this project. Thanks! Larry Morgan Larry and Phyllis Morgan TCA/TTOS/PRRT&HS ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 22:00:01 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: [PRR] Varney Aerotrain Car Content-Length: 770 To the list: In light of the recent discussions on the GM Aerotrain, I thought I would mention that there is a Varney Aerotrain Observation Car listed on eBay at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=10508587 The auction runs out at 04/15/98 11:56:44 PDT That would be 2:56:44 PM, Eastern Daylight Time. I'm not bidding; wrong scale for me. Good luck. Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gripp, William [NCS]" Subject: RE: [PRR] Varney Aerotrain Car Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:46:37 -0400 Content-Length: 1485 Thanks for the heads up. I already have just the Varney loco. If I can acquire this obs I'll just be missing the middle! =B^) > ---------- > From: Stephen Bartlett[SMTP:sbartlet@capecod.net] > Sent: Monday, April 13, 1998 10:00 PM > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Varney Aerotrain Car > > To the list: > In light of the recent discussions on the GM Aerotrain, I > thought I > would mention that there is a Varney Aerotrain Observation Car listed > on > eBay at: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=10508587 > > The auction runs out at > 04/15/98 11:56:44 PDT > That would be 2:56:44 PM, Eastern Daylight Time. > > I'm not bidding; wrong scale for me. Good luck. > > Steve Bartlett > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact > "listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:11:12 -0400 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: Re: [PRR] New Bachman 2-8-0 Content-Length: 1246 Andrew S. Miller wrote: > > There are too many PRR-unique features to mention. Unless they cast a new > boiler shell for a PRR H6,8,9,or 10, just lettering their engine PENNSYLVANIA > will no more make it a PRR consol than letting UNITED AIRLINES would make it a > 767! > > On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Jerry Shickler wrote: >... > Let's hope they come out with a Pennsy version of the 2-8-0. >... By 'Pennsy version', I meant that I hoped they had enough of the unique features, especially the Belpaire, to make it close. They already have interchangeable domes, but they would need to do the firebox differently. Great Northern also had Belpaires, correct? That would give them a slightly larger market. It seems like Bachmann wants to be taken more seriously, and a close Pennsy version would convince a lot of us here. -- Jerry Shickler e-mail: geshick@velocity.net ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 14 Apr 98 09:26:00 -0400 From: Doug Drew Subject: [PRR] [PRR} (off-topic) RE: Morning Sun Books fading Content-Length: 3020 The phenomenon people seem be noticing in Morning Sun's books can possibly be accounted for by a couple of things: First, in the time between the first and the latest books, there has been a revolution in the technology that does the color scanning and separation of the slides used in the books. At the time the first book was published, separations required scanning and color correction on very expensive prepress equipment that only places dedicated to doing this work could afford. One paid a bit of the price in each scan and color correction that was done. Since the author/publisher did not know how how well the first book would sell, I suspect they opted to just have the slides scanned as-is, which may account for the color appearing 'off' -- the actual slides had probably faded or taken on a pink or blue cast with age, depending on the film used. These days, a quality scan can be obtained far less expensively on 'desktop' Mac (and maybe even PC) equipment. There is also software now that can do color correction of scan files nearly automatically, without the need for an operator with the training and skill required back in the 'old days' when the PDY series was first published. I have seen near-miraculous examples of a print faded almost completely to magenta-red that was 'saved' and brought back to its original color using this kind of software. Color-corrected scans can now be obtained for far, far less than what they cost when the first 'PDY' came out, and that may account for the difference you are seeing between the newest and oldest volumes. The newest ones are being color-corrected. Another possibility, though more remote, is a phenomenon called 'gas ghosting', where the solvents in the inks on the paper continue to out-gas fumes, which then tend to affect the colors of certain pigments in inks on the page opposite, pressed against the out-gassing page. This would be caused by the printer either using the wrong ink for the paper, or not having a hot enough drying oven to dry the inks on the page completely as they come off the press, and then folding and binding up signatures as soon as a press run was complete. This seems more unlikely than the first possibility, as it would be obvious where the ghosting had occurred if one picture didn't completely overlap another opposite -- there would probably be a defined 'edge' where a picture affected one on the opposite page. I have never heard of this as a long-term problem (i.e. a period of years) but only as a production problem while books and such are being created at the printer. But anything's possible. -- Doug Drew ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] New Bachman 2-8-0 (Roundhouse) From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 98 09:36:04 -0400 Content-Length: 505 Roundhouse also has a PRR low side (8000 gal) tender that looks much better behind a Bowser E6 than anything Bowser makes. regards Andy Miller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Rails Northeast Date: Tue, 14 Apr 98 11:59:43 -0400 From: Rob Schoenberg Content-Length: 621 Hey guys, Does anyone out there have dupes of any Rails Northeast issues? I have 20-30 dupes and I'd be interested in trading issues with others to help fill out my collection.. Let me know what dupes you might have and I'll dig up my list... Anyone? Rob ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: [PRR] Goldsboro PA (fwd) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:22:18 EDT Content-Length: 1102 > For reference, if we call the track closest to the river track 1, it > looks like there is a crossover from track 2 to track 3 when travelling > northbound, and from track 3 to track 4 when travelling southbound. I am Jerry, I don't have the ETT to answer to your specific case. I will answer generally, though. (And yes, for the record, you did _not_ ask a question on this point -- I'm just taking the liberty to comment/answer ANYway. :-) In those cases where the PRR seemed to have 4 tracks but actually named them "x branch" and "y branch" instead, tracks were usually numbered to correspond with the names. Thus, in that location, it almost certainly was A&S track 1, A&S track 2, NC track 1, and NC track 2. -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: [PRR] Looking for NRHS/Harrisburg Contact (fwd) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:25:36 EDT Content-Length: 1184 > I'm looking for a contact within the Harrisburg Chapter of the NRHS. Are > there any online? > > Specifically, I am looking for access to a track chart on display within > HARRIS tower. It's on the tower operator's desk and is under a loose > piece of glass. I took a photo of it at a recent Open House, but it did > not come out well enough for my needs. Would like to negotiate a loan of > it for a few hours for scanning. > > I am modeling Harrisburg station and this chart would be extremely > useful. A portion of the same chart appeared in a recent "Keystone", but > it did not have enough detail nor did it include all of what I need. Jerry, I'm a NRHS-Harrisburg member, and several are online. But why would the interlocking charts of HARRIS and STATE on my web site not suffice? -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:50:30 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] New Bachman 2-8-0 (Roundhouse) Content-Length: 1550 >Roundhouse also has a PRR low side (8000 gal) tender that looks much better >behind a Bowser E6 than anything Bowser makes. The Roundhouse E6 is a pretty realistic model (not havbing built one myself) but you need to replace the drivers with metal ones (theirs are plastic with brass tires). the E6 tender is very tought to come by alone.. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:57:00 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] T-1, 100mph & gear ratios Content-Length: 2058 Hi all! The sign of as sick mind: I was wondering what gear ratios to use to ensure my re-powered Bowser T-1 had a max speed of 100 mph. Here's the math, and at the end, an equation to use for any driver/rpm question! 80" drivers have a 20*pi/3 circumference in feet (approx 21 feet) These drivers rotate 5280/(20*pi/3) times per mile (approx 252 times) 100 mph = 5/3 miles per minute These drivers rotate (5/3)*(5280/(20*pi/3)) times per minute (approx 420 rpm) If I use a 28:1 gear ratio, I require at least 11764 shaft rpm from my motor. If I use a 33:1 gear ratio, I could use 13865 shaft rpm from my motor. Believe it or not, all this "simplifies" to the following equation: G*(1056*Y)/(X*pi) = Z where X = driver diameter in inches Y = max speed in mph Z = motor speed in rpm G = gear ratio Boy, that was FUN! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1, 100mph & gear ratios Date: Tue, 14 Apr 98 15:15:43 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 737 On 4/14/98 2:57 PM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: >Believe it or not, all this "simplifies" to the following equation: > >G*(1056*Y)/(X*pi) = Z Film at 11! --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:37:31 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Hunter" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Bachman 2-8-0 Content-Length: 701 Hi, Jerry, Now I'm getting blasted by everybody who can cite kits that have Belpairs. Okay, so do Bowser kits. Mea culpa. But among plastic RTR locomotives, which is what I thought the original question was about, such features have been at least rare. So I would be surprised if the new Bachman came in a Belpaire variant. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Knepper" Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1, 100mph & gear ratios Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:43:30 -0500 Content-Length: 1556 OK.... How much coal and water did it take to provide the steam to maintain that 100mph for an hour ? Upgrade ! in the rain ! I know who cares.........But it was neet ! Bill ---------- > From: Jerry_Britton > To: Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. ; PRR-Talk > Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1, 100mph & gear ratios > Date: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 2:15 PM > > On 4/14/98 2:57 PM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: > > >Believe it or not, all this "simplifies" to the following equation: > > > >G*(1056*Y)/(X*pi) = Z > > Film at 11! > > --------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com > Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Carl Izzo" Subject: [PRR] April Pgh Chapter Meeting Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:31:45 -0400 Content-Length: 961 Just a short note on even shorter notice!! The next meeting if the Pittsburgh Chapter, PRRT&HS will be held on Friday, Apr 17, 1998, at Good Shepherd Lutheran Church, Monroeville, PA at 7:30 PM. The meeting is free and open to the public. Get off the PA turnpike at Exit 6 going toward Monroeville to the US Route 22/PA Route 48 intersection. Turn right (North) on Route 48. Go one block to the next intersection (Route 48 and Old William Penn Highway). Cross Old William Penn Highway and turn right immediately into the Church parking lot. Carl P. Izzo, Pres. Pittsburgh Chapter, PRRT&HS ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JDPanza Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:33:39 EDT Subject: [PRR] Background of Rose in Altoona Content-Length: 537 Recently a CR employee asked where the name "Rose" originated for the yard office and yard in Altoona (Juniata). Does anyone know where that name originated? Thanks for any input. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Liberty" Subject: [PRR] Re: Something new for the SPF !! Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:45:15 -0400 Content-Length: 1357 Hi All, A quick note to let you know of a unique item we have just released ! (several actually !!) We now have a 'cold cast' bronze PRR wall plaque and switch plate cover ! These are available in white as well ! ( paint the plaques with red and wet sand or paint raised areas white or gold) You can see a picture at our web site; http://liberty.dsop.com The one on the web site is a prototype and contains a flaw, the first 'e' response I get that correctly identifies the 'flaw' will get one like it for free !! (without the flaw of course) Also, by the end of this week, we will begin shipping our Ingot Mold Car ! A 'must have' for steel mill modelers !!! The master for this car was created by Kevin Tully, and he did a fine job ! I in turn have also created the car in N scale for you N scalers out there. These cars are the first efforts in our "American Steel" Series. Thanks for checking them out !! Joe Zappa, Liberty Model Productions ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Paintloco Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 22:24:07 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: Roundhouse Quasi PRR E 6 Content-Length: 918 The Roundhouse "E6" is an attractive model but it is not an E6. The drivers are too small, I think they are 72" instead of eighty, and the valve gear is wrong. The tender is right on. I think it is the best looking, most accurate non-brass PRR tender available. The superstructure is excellent. It's much more an E6 than what Bowser gives you. If you mate the Roundhouse super structure and tender to a Bowser E6 chasis with a decent motor you've got yourself a really nice E6. Model Railroader ran a kitbash article for this about 1984 or so. Don Murphy ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:08:54 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Re: Roundhouse Quasi PRR E 6 From: padraice@juno.com (Patrick M Egan) Content-Length: 2097 The Riundhouse E6 boiler appears meant for an H9. The forward edge of the lower part of an E6 Belpaire is more like that of a K4 or L1, with a pronounced backward slope. That part of the Roundhouse Belpaire is much more vertical. The Great Northern Belpaires are more British than Pennsylvania in appearance, with more rounded tops, and differently shaped sides. Not near as handsome as those on the Standard Railroad Of The World, either. Pat Egan On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 22:24:07 EDT Paintloco writes: >The Roundhouse "E6" is an attractive model but it is not an E6. The >drivers >are too small, I think they are 72" instead of eighty, and the valve >gear is >wrong. The tender is right on. I think it is the best looking, most >accurate >non-brass PRR tender available. The superstructure is excellent. It's >much >more an E6 than what Bowser gives you. >If you mate the Roundhouse super structure and tender to a Bowser E6 >chasis >with a decent motor you've got yourself a really nice E6. Model >Railroader ran >a kitbash article for this about 1984 or so. > >Don Murphy > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. >------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Something new for the SPF !! Date: Wed, 15 Apr 98 06:20:15 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 2046 On 4/14/98 9:45 PM, Liberty (liberty@infonline.net) wrote: >We now have a 'cold cast' bronze PRR wall plaque and switch plate cover ! >These are available in white as well ! ( paint the plaques with red and wet >sand or paint raised areas white or gold) You can see a picture at our web >site; >http://liberty.dsop.com The one on the web site is a >prototype and contains a flaw, the first 'e' response I get that correctly >identifies the 'flaw' will get one like it for free !! (without the flaw of >course) This is a pretty cool item. Joe sent me a prototype as a surprise...and boy was I! It's got a decent weight to it, considering its material, and it does have a real bronze look! I was the one who brought the "flaw" to Joe's attention. Of course his reaction was, "Are You sure?" Now if we could only get a 4" version for the fascia of every PRRMO module! The light switch covers will be great as well, and the price is certainly attractive! > >Also, by the end of this week, we will begin shipping our Ingot Mold Car ! >A 'must have' for steel mill modelers !!! This car is "fab"! I've never had a particular interest in the steel industry, but I am gaining one with the release of this car. The first thing I noticed was its weight...this car "smells of testosterone"! It is a very heavy car...and very close to NMRA standard weight (per Joe). Anyone modeling steel WILL want a string of these! ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Liberty" Subject: [PRR] new SPF item , Flaw contest Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 07:37:00 -0400 Content-Length: 1516 Boy ! Can't put anything past you folks !!! Dan Cupper was the first to reply (11:03pm) !!! Dan, please 'e' me your address so I can send you a wall plaque !! Congrats.!! Also, Andy Cich Don R. Millbranth Richard F. Makse All got the right answer ! Yes, the flaw was the lack of a seperation line between the 'P' and the 'R' on the left side. Thanks to Jerry Britton for pointing this out on a sample (the one in the photo). It has been corrected for the 'production' pieces. For Andy, Don, and Richard; If you guys are interested, I will offer you three a 'consolation' discount of 20% ! Thank you to all that have sent in a response, and for taking the time to check out the web site !!! Some add'l. news- K5 project is reportedly moving ahead smoothly (H. Mummert is doing the master/conversion work). He reports that with the installation of the Alco Products can motor, this baby really moves nicely, and now wants to change over his whole fleet !! We'll have a 'pull' test soon. Progress continues on the other projects, and all seems to be on schedule ! Thanks, Joe Zappa, Liberty Model Productions ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Liberty" Subject: [PRR] best looking coal -HO scale Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 07:56:27 -0400 Content-Length: 454 Who makes the best looking HO scale coal ? Want to load up some tenders and hoppers ! Joe Zappa ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 15 Apr 98 08:52:16 -0400 From: Doug Drew Subject: [PRR] RE: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/15/98 Content-Length: 1147 >Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1, 100mph & gear ratios >From: "Bill Knepper" >Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:43:30 -0500 > >OK.... >How much coal and water did it take to provide the steam to maintain that >100mph for an hour ? Upgrade ! in the rain ! In the latest issue of Vintage Rails in an article about locomotive servicing, William D. Middleton asserts that under power, a large steam locomotive could evaporate a ton and one half of water per minute -- no reference to what type that engine was, or the speed it was traveling. Using a rule of thumb that a gallon of water weighs about 8 pounds, that's 375 gallons per minute. No mention about fuel. I assume at 100 mph, water consumption could be even higher than that. No wonder PRR had to use track pans. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Roundhouse Quasi PRR E 6 From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 98 08:58:12 -0400 Content-Length: 2012 As my previos post said, I concur about using the excellent MDC tender. My PennLine E6 has been running this way for 20 years. The idea of using the MDC plastic superstructure has the merit that the detail is probably better. The PennLine/Bowser cab leaves much to be desired (and improved). But, if you do this then you lose the weight of the metal superstucture, and with it, the fantastic pulling ability of PL/Bowser engines. My E6 regularly hauls 14 car trains over 2.5% grades; and most of these cars are ECW P70s with the old Walthers cast metal seats. They are heavy! Of course E6s were not built for steep grades, but on the flat my E6 is a speed demon , just like the prototype. regards, Andy Miller ========== The Roundhouse "E6" is an attractive model but it is not an E6. The drivers are too small, I think they are 72" instead of eighty, and the valve gear is wrong. The tender is right on. I think it is the best looking, most accurate non-brass PRR tender available. The superstructure is excellent. It's much more an E6 than what Bowser gives you. If you mate the Roundhouse super structure and tender to a Bowser E6 chasis with a decent motor you've got yourself a really nice E6. Model Railroader ran a kitbash article for this about 1984 or so. Don Murphy - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:01:07 -0500 From: tmahon@cfnh.com (Tom Mahon) Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Roundhouse Quasi PRR E 6 Content-Length: 657 Paintloco wrote: . > If you mate the Roundhouse super structure and tender to a Bowser E6 chasis > with a decent motor you've got yourself a really nice E6. Model Railroader ran > a kitbash article for this about 1984 or so. > > Don Murphy See MR 9/78 using MDC and Bowser parts. Tom Mahon ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Huber25 Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:36:38 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] [PRR} (off-topic) RE: Morning Sun Books fading Content-Length: 1226 Doug, Thanks for your response to my question. You seem very knowledgeable on the subject and have given me the best answer so far about the possible cause to my problem. I think you may be right about them using a lesser quality process for their first books due to questionable sales. They were a new company then and the "picture book" format was relatively new to us at the time. We have come to accept it now but who knew what response it would bring then. It's quite possible they did cut corners. I certainly hope that they changed whatever they were doing wrong at the time as I don't want to lose any more books and would hate to not buy any more Morning Sun Books. They are a great source of information and photographs and I really enjoy them immensely. Like I said, I have almost every one they've produced. Thanks all for the answers! Roger ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 10:53:29 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Roundhouse Quasi PRR E 6 Content-Length: 969 In a message dated 98-04-15 09:42:11 EDT,Tom Mahon writes: << See MR 9/78 using MDC and Bowser parts. >> Sorry for off topic, but... Holy tempus fugit, Batman! I can't believe this article is 20 years old. I have it in my files packed away,but I had to check the magazine index on Accurail website because I was sure there was a more recent article. Now I know I will have to relieve my depression at losing 20 years by packing up the video camera and tripod and heading for Colehour Yard to record the last of Conrail. Or build my T1 post haste. Or paint my I1 with Cary boiler. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:02:58 -0400 From: "David R. Campbell" Subject: Re: [PRR] best looking coal -HO scale Content-Length: 1148 Liberty wrote: > > Who makes the best looking HO scale coal ? Want to load up some tenders > and hoppers ! > > Joe Zappa > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". Joe, Here in SW Virginia, we take fines from under belts at the local mines or loadouts and sift it down. It makes great coal loads. Usually I can sweep enough of it out of my Explorer each week to load a hopper....but I have to wash the hydraulic oil out of it. David Campbell Norton, VA ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:56:58 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] best looking coal -HO scale Content-Length: 1938 >Who makes the best looking HO scale coal ? Want to load up some tenders >and hoppers ! Joe, I'll get back to you with the name tommorrow, but I know of at least one company which makes great HO coal, and appropriately in different sizes, just like the real thing. After all stoker coal was diferent than some other mine grades. To have strings of hoppers with DIFFERRENT GRADES of coal in a yard or at a loader is really cool! Tony Koester pays very close attention to this on the AM. BTW, I just checked with Az Rock and Mineral, from whom I am getting my PRR ballast and they have a number of sizes of coal: http://www.northlink.com/~azrock/azrock3.html although these are not divided into the typical "grades" Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:07:35 -0400 From: "s.a. mccall" Subject: [PRR] Water comsumption Content-Length: 2408 Greetings, From A.W. Bruces book "The steam locomotive in America" he makes a comparison of the following. A NYC 4-6-0 in service around 1900 would when operating at 60 miles per hour use all its water(5000 gallons) in about 1.2 hours. This would give a range of 72 miles between water stops. A 6-4-4-6 (PRR S1)in 1950 when operating at 100 miles per hour would use all its water(24,200 gallons) in about 1.5 hours. This would give a range of 150 miles between water stops. These figures are for passenger engines operating on basically level track. I would suspect a steady upgrade would cut these figures in half. On the return a steady downgrade would add considerably to these figures. All would be dependent on the engineers proficiency. Same for rain. At 08:52 AM 4/15/98 -0400, you wrote: >>Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1, 100mph & gear ratios >>From: "Bill Knepper" >>Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:43:30 -0500 >> >>OK.... >>How much coal and water did it take to provide the steam to maintain >that >>100mph for an hour ? Upgrade ! in the rain ! > >In the latest issue of Vintage Rails in an article about locomotive >servicing, William D. Middleton asserts that under power, a large steam >locomotive could evaporate a ton and one half of water per minute -- no reference >to what type that engine was, or the speed it was traveling. Using a rule >of thumb that a gallon of water weighs about 8 pounds, that's 375 gallons >per minute. No mention about fuel. I assume at 100 mph, water consumption >could be even higher than that. No wonder PRR had to use track pans. > > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. >------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > Sincerely, S.A. McCall HOSAM Franklin, Va. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Liberty" Subject: [PRR] Re: scale coal Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:37:14 -0400 Content-Length: 776 Thanks to all of you that provided insight into this, as well as several addresses etc. !!! For those that crush their own and 'grade' it, what size screen do you recommend for doing this ? After this was mentioned, I realized I'm in what used to be an area for the finest grade of Pennsylvania coal ever, and that it shouldn't be any problem to do this myself ! Thanks again for the advice !! Joe Zappa ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 17:35:35 -0400 From: "R. Vogel" Subject: [PRR] Telegraph Photo Content-Length: 787 I came across a picture of a PRR telegraph made in the Altoona shops in the book Old Time Telephones! Technology Restoration and Repair by Ralph Meyer (1995). Its on page 5 fig 1-1. Does anyone out there use telegraphy to transmit orders to their operators? : ) Actually the book has information on easily creating private lines with old (or new) telephones. No need to buy two way radios or intercoms. -Bob Vogel ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Chart Tape Part Numbers and Source Date: Wed, 15 Apr 98 19:52:06 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1222 Charette (800-367-3729) does indeed still have 1/64" chart tape available. It was sacrificed from their catalog for space reasons, however it is not in danger of discontinuation. The part # is 789405. Color is "Black Opaque". Roll is 650" long. Price is $7.60. For those who are wondering why we are discussing chart tape, Andrew Miller suggests it for putting stripes on passenger cars. Instead of fighting to apply decal stripes -- which are hard to align -- Andy paints the whole car side Dulux Gold, then lays down the three stripes with chart tape, overpaints with Tuscan, then removes the tape. Voila, three straight stripes! ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gripp, William [NCS]" Subject: [PRR] PRR and B&LE Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 23:20:08 -0400 Content-Length: 619 A few days ago there was a post regarding using Bachmanns new 2-8-0 as a B&LE steamier in interchange with the PRR. I've lost the original post. Could the original poster please email wgripp@prius.jnj.com? I have something that may be of intereste to you. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 23:59:46 -0400 From: Stan Feldman Subject: [PRR] Photo plaque in 30th street station Content-Length: 1168 Hello; Can anyone answer this question ? Stan Subject: photo plaque in 30th street station Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 22:28:48 EDT From: Dswus To: railpix@philly.infi.net Where is the plaque of W.W. Atterbury in 30th street station located and when was it last painted/cleaned???? He is an important guy so pls take care of him. -- *********************************************************** STAN'S RAILPIX-- Railroad Photo Gallery ! http://www.trainweb.com/railpix ****************************************************** Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it !! *********************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Goldsboro Question - Crossovers Date: Thu, 16 Apr 98 06:23:45 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 2918 The other day, I asked if anyone had any charts showing crossovers at Goldsboro, Pa., around the turn of the century. Goldsboro is located on the Susquehanna River, about two miles above Cly Interlocking and four miles above Wago Junction. Passing through are four tracks: two of the Northern Central Branch (two away from the river) and two of the Atglen & Susquehanna (two closest to the river). I scanned in an aerial photo from a book which is labeled "Aerial photo of Goldsboro around 1900". We know it is later than that because the A&S Branch is present, which would have been at least 1902. Next clue is how the photo was taken. A balloon was possible, but I think someone pointed out that the Wright brothers flight wasn't until 1903. Then you gotta wonder how long after that someone would be photographing Goldsboro from the air. Many have estimated that this photo must have been taken in 191x. Here's the photo URL: http://prr.dsop.com/question/goldsboro_190x.jpeg It's a 100dpi JPEG. Now, I scanned a detail area at 300dpi, then enlarged it to 200%. Here's its URL: http://prr.dsop.com/question/closeup.jpeg You may need to "mousedown" download it rather than open it directly. (125k) Now, Cly Interlocking, one mile south, and the junction north of LEMO (some 10 miles north) "should" be the only interlocks on this stretch of four track main. However, I thought, and the closeup proves, that there were crossovers between many of the tracks. The tracks in the distance are too fuzzy to tell, but there were many turnouts...and no protective signals!!! Here's what I can make out: RIVER __________________________________________________ __________________________\_______________________ SOUTH ____________________________________/_____________ _____________________________\____________________ _______________________/ / depot team track ______________/ feed mill BTW: Signal bridge only appears to have heads on north side, on tracks 2 & 4 if counting out from the river. Most block signal bridges in the area have heads on both sides. This may be the distance signal for southbounds for Cly Interlocking. Does anyone have any additional info to provide? Sure is curious...no signals! ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 08:29:10 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Ho scale coal Content-Length: 1779 Joe, et al. I looked up the maker of the HO scale coal I have last night: HIBALL Products Box 14484 Cincinnati, OH 45250 They make coal in the following sizes: "stoker 1-3 inch" - for stoker equipped steam locomotives "Egg" for hand fired locomotives "Lump" for other applications So remember - hand fired E6's get "egg" whereas stoker equipped classes get "stoker". BTW, this does mean that DIFFERENT grades must be supplied by hopper at your coaling facility, and as I stated before, should be represented by different hoppers at mines, in yards etc... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Ho scale coal Date: Thu, 16 Apr 98 09:56:43 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1137 On 4/16/98 9:29 AM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: >So remember - hand fired E6's get "egg" whereas stoker equipped classes get >"stoker". BTW, this does mean that DIFFERENT grades must be supplied by >hopper at your coaling facility, and as I stated before, should be >represented by different hoppers at mines, in yards etc... Bruce: Rumor has it that you'll be making unannounced inspections of "PRR-Talk" member's layouts for compliance! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale: http://prr.dsop.com/layout/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:39:03 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Photo plaque in 30th street station Content-Length: 950 In a message dated 98-04-16 00:03:34 EDT, railpix@philly.infi.net writes: << Where is the plaque of W.W. Atterbury in 30th street station located and when was it last painted/cleaned???? It's in the north waiting room, along with plaques for Thomson and Cassatt. All are lovingly maintained and clearly visible to anyone passing by. This area is frequently used for banquets and other private functions, and also contains the "Spirit of Progress in Transportation" bas-relief which was rescued from old Broad Street Station when same was torn down. Rich Copeland Glenside, PA ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 16 Apr 98 10:52:38 -0400 From: Doug Drew Subject: [PRR] scale coal and coke Content-Length: 1605 I've always found that real coal crushed down to 'scale size' is too shiny, with little crystalline sparkles that glint as the loaded cars move by and look phony to me. Maybe this is the way the stuff looks fresh from the breaker, but I've never noticed such sparkling shininess by the time the coal gets up here to New England. Chooch coal loads have a duller finish to them that looks better, at least to my eye, if you can afford enough to equip half your cars (assuming you have loads moving one way and empties the other). The other tack would be to make your own fake coal loads from plaster, sized to the interior dimensions of your coal cars. I suppose you could even use a correct-sized manufactured load as a pattern, cast in Woodland Scenics rock-molding rubber. Spray the plaster castings flat black, sprinkle coal fines onto wet 'workable' spray fixative applied on top, and then dullcote the whole shootin' match. I accidently stumbled on a good way to replicate coke -- unburned barbecue charcoal, a bag of which that was left out in the rain. The dampness makes the briquets crumble into realistic-looking, clumpy 'scale' coke. I wouldn't recommend doing this with the 'match light' variety of charcoal, though. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:00:54 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Lancaster - Model Operations Content-Length: 1514 Hi all, I've asked this question of the PRRMO group and I thought to here as well: Is there anyone in the general Lancaster area who would be willing to host an operating session on their model rr during the PRRT&HS convention? I would be happy to try organize such a session, and I do LOVE to operate! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:30:18 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Layout Inspections: was Ho scale coal Content-Length: 3086 >On 4/16/98 9:29 AM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. >(smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: > >>So remember - hand fired E6's get "egg" whereas stoker equipped classes get >>"stoker". BTW, this does mean that DIFFERENT grades must be supplied by >>hopper at your coaling facility, and as I stated before, should be >>represented by different hoppers at mines, in yards etc... > >Bruce: Rumor has it that you'll be making unannounced inspections of >"PRR-Talk" member's layouts for compliance! Other items on the "hit list" include: 1) Layouts using Soundtraxx DCC decoders, where the "Fireman Fred" coal shoveling effect has not been disabled on stoker equipped locomotives! 2) Rolling stock with BLT or NEW dates AFTER the layout's date! 3) Rolling stock painted in shemes initiated AFTER the layout's date! 4) Locomotives purchased AFTER or scrapped BEFORE the layout's date! I wonder if anyone will notice my Oriental K4s, with the modern headlight/gen, slatted pilot, and gold pinstriped 1930 era paint scheme? That, and my "production" T-1 on a June 1944 era layout, N5b and N5c cabins with black roofs, Red Caboose "FM" class flat car (about 3 scale feet too long), and the Proto 2000 Shell tank car (NEW date 1949)! (The K4, N5b and N5c represent painting/detailing projects for some future date) Here's today's puzzler - what is wrong with me running modified (steeple cab) P5a 4770 on my layout? Really, its all in good fun - I try to be very critical with my own modeling, but I would NEVER point such things out to a host, unless I knew them VERY well, and they asked...My local hobby shop owner just can't understand why I won't buy everything that he gets painted "PRR". My motto for layout visits is to always compliment what is there...we all try hard, and hey its YOUR EMPIRE! (and I LOVE to visit and run trains!) Happy Rivet Counting Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Liberty" Subject: [PRR] dimensions needed.... Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:10:51 -0400 Content-Length: 764 Hi folks, I was wondering if one of you that purchased the new PRR livestock car (K9 ?) kit that was recently released could let me know the interior available space dimensions. We are going to prepare some simple (but good detail and relief level) cattle loads - 1pc., to use inside these and other livestock cars. Perhaps some hog loads and ?? Thanks, Joe Zappa, Liberty Model Productions ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Liberty" Subject: Re: [PRR] Layout Inspections: was Ho scale coal Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:14:38 -0400 Content-Length: 2392 Bruce, It's good to hear of your 'healthy' positive attitude !! I like your style. Joe Zappa ---------- > From: Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Layout Inspections: was Ho scale coal > Date: Thursday, April 16, 1998 12:30 PM > ----SNIP----- > Really, its all in good fun - I try to be very critical with my own > modeling, but I would NEVER point such things out to a host, unless I knew > them VERY well, and they asked...My local hobby shop owner just can't > understand why I won't buy everything that he gets painted "PRR". My motto > for layout visits is to always compliment what is there...we all try hard, > and hey its YOUR EMPIRE! (and I LOVE to visit and run trains!) > > Happy Rivet Counting > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and > Director, Nucleic Acid Services > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > **************************************************************************** **** > Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html > _ _ > / \ / \ > ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ > |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Liberty" Subject: [PRR] need some info on marine craft Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:14:16 -0400 Content-Length: 696 Hi folks, Just wanted to see if anyone has plans or detailed info on the car floats, tugs and other marine craft that the Pennsy had or used. The section in PP III has piqued my interest !! I would love to build a model (detail specific) of one or more of these items !! Any help or info would be greatly appreciated ! Joe Zappa ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bud Kaiser Subject: RE: [PRR] Chart Tape Part Numbers and Source Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:21:07 -0400 Content-Length: 998 Jerry wrote: Charette (800-367-3729) does indeed still have 1/64" chart tape available. It was sacrificed from their catalog for space reasons, however it is not in danger of discontinuation. The part # is 789405. Color is "Black Opaque". Roll is 650" long. Price is $7.60. I just got back from my local New Jersey Art Supply store where I picked up 1/64" Chartpak tape, 648"long, for $2.95. They carry the full line including flat and gloss in various colors. The Chartpak part # for the gloss black is BG1501. Sounds like Charrete is bumping the price. Chartpak is out of Leeds, Mass Bud Kaiser bkaiser@voicenet.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Paintloco Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:47:23 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR and B&LE Content-Length: 1633 Bill, I had considered using the IHC Consolidation but it will not run through code 70 turnouts without bottoming in the frog. I believe it has a 60" or so diameter drive. The B & LE 300,s had either 52" or 54 " making the Bacho 2-8-0 look closer. I've also been intigued by what I've read of it in the press especially Mainline Modeler. I had a NPP DM&IR I painted for the Bessey but it was way too much engine for the task. The Bessey didn't run them on the Linesville branch anyway. The engine on my railroad will run between staging and the PRR- B&LE interchange at Linesville pulling the turn that worked out of Albion. I understand that in the '40's PRR sent a lot of coal to the Bessy to a coal prep plant on that line to be graded. The coal was then brought back to the PRR at Linesville and taken to its final destination. I rua retail coal extra out of New Castle pulled by an N1s to Linesville. It drops the train for the Bessy and picks up the hoppers of graded coal Bessy left earlier. Later in the session the Bessy arrives again to pick up the coal and leave more cars for the PRR. Its an very interesting operation to watch and/or work. All this is done using waybills and car cards. Traffic is controlled usig MBS and written Form 19s. Don ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] need some info on marine craft Date: Thu, 16 Apr 98 22:01:13 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1085 On 4/16/98 8:14 PM, Liberty (liberty@infonline.net) wrote: >Just wanted to see if anyone has plans or detailed info on the car floats, >tugs and other marine craft that the Pennsy had or used. The section in PP >III has piqued my interest !! I would love to build a model (detail >specific) of one or more of these items !! > >Any help or info would be greatly appreciated ! Bill Calloroso's book on "The Elmira Branch" has a photo of the PRR tug "Cornelius" that was used at the Sodus Point ore pier. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 08:01:39 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] DGLE passenger cars? Content-Length: 3147 Hi all! I'm forwarding this note from Dennis Dalla-Vincenza. Does anyone have any information on DGLE passenger cars? I have already disabused him of the notion that all prr cars were "pullman green" although I realize that some were ;^) Happy rails Bruce >Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:45:32 -0700 >From: Denise Shuck & Dennis Dalla-Vicenza >Organization: Vancouver Island Model Engineers >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu >Subject: Brunswick Green > >Bruce, > My name is Dennis Dalla-Vicenza and I have a question that >I have been trying to find the answer to for quite a while. >I have been told by an older, I'm 54, railroad fan of a >special train once painted up by the Pennsy in the mid to >late thirties where all the cars are Brunswick Green. > The train was supposedly made up of a K5, a baggage car, 2 >coaches, a diner, and an observation or business car. It was >operated for some important function for some very powerful >people and or politicians. I have been to Strasburg and the >museum but when I was there I was unaware that a train of >this colour once existed. > I now live about as far west of Strasburg as one can get >and still remain in North America. Do you know of any place >on the web that I could search to find if this information >is true. I have a 7 1/2" Gauge K5 and a set of passenger >cars to paint and letter. I know that the standard colour >for the Pennsy passenger equipment was Pullman Green; but if >the Brunswick Green was used even once for passenger >equipment I think that riding cars painted in this fashion >would be a conversation starter in a big way. > Any help or links that you could send to me would be >greatly appreciated, as it is very hard to research an >eastern American railroad in western Canada. >Regards and happy railroading >Dennis Dalla-Vicenza >Newsletter Editor >The Safety valve >Victoria BC. >trainz@ican.net > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 9:28:48 -0500 From: "Laird, Bill (GWise)" Subject: [PRR] need some info on marine craft -Reply Content-Length: 3183 Date: 04/17/1998 03:27 pm (Friday) From: Bill Laird To: INET.MAIL("PRR-Talk@dsop.com") Subject: [PRR] need some info on marine craft -Reply Begin by checking out the Penny Bridge web site at: http://bjr.acf.nyu.edu/railinfo.html In the section titled "Locomotive" you will find links to: Car float service in the NYC area Railroad Car float and ferry service NYC area railroad tugs HO operational car ferry Majority of this information is of general interest to rail/marine fans, however there is some Pennsy specific information. In following the links, BE SURE to read the information on the Rail Marine Information Group (RMIG). The $20 annual dues brings 3 issues a year of the "Transfer", a newsletter/magazine on the subject of rail/marine operations. While not the caliber of the "Keystone", it does have lots of detailed rail/marine information. Previous issues have included detailed plans and drawings of car floats and railroad barges, some Pennsy included. Back issues of the "Transfer" are available. I don't know how good the new Walthers waterfront series car float will be, but check out Crow River Models, P.O. Box 2092, Pawtucket, RI 02861, telephone 401-723-0065 for information on their Car Float Fittings Kit. A phone call or note will bring you the details. The kit contains instructions on scratch building a railroad car float and includes lots of detail white metal castings of car float fittings and equipment. Finally, a past issue of the "Keystone" ran articles on the PRR car float and ferry operations. I don't have an index of back issues handy so I can't quote the specific issue. Check the PRRT&HS web site. Hope this is of some assistance in getting started in this most interesting facet of railroading. I have designed a small HO switching layout (2 1/2' wide by 11' long) centered around railroad Car float operations. I am in the initial stages of construction. Bill Laird Houston, Texas ------------------------ Original message follows --------------------- >>> PRR-Talk@dsop.com 04/16/98 07:14pm >>> Hi folks, Just wanted to see if anyone has plans or detailed info on the car floats, tugs and other marine craft that the Pennsy had or used. The section in PP III has piqued my interest !! I would love to build a model (detail specific) of one or more of these items !! Any help or info would be greatly appreciated ! Joe Zappa ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: cschlund@sfsu.edu Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:18:42 Subject: [PRR] Sights in Phila Content-Length: 1122 Hi everyone, On my way to the PRRT&HS convention, I'll be stuck at the Phila airport for about 3 hours on Thurs morning with nothing to do. As I understand it, there is a rail connection (Silverliners???) from the airport to 30th street station, and maybe beyond. Can anyone suggest a spot I might get to by the train from the airport where I could railfan for an hour or two while I kill some time? Thanks in advance... Claus -------------------------***{}***------------------------- Claus Schlund (Shop Foreman, Bernal Heights Car & Foundry) Modeling steam-era PRR in N scale - San Francisco, CA Interested in BHC&F products? Check out our no-longer-one-and-only passenger car kit at http://userwww.sfsu.edu/~cschlund/models/pullman.gif ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:48:57 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] need some info on marine craft -Reply Content-Length: 1528 >Date: 04/17/1998 03:27 pm (Friday) >From: Bill Laird >To: INET.MAIL("PRR-Talk@dsop.com") >Subject: [PRR] need some info on marine craft -Reply > >Begin by checking out the Penny Bridge web site at: > > http://bjr.acf.nyu.edu/railinfo.html Correct address is: http://bjr.acf.nyu.edu/railinfo/railinfo.html Happy Rails, Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:20:22 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Background of Rose in Altoona Content-Length: 758 In a message dated 98-04-14 22:10:35 EDT, JDPanza@aol.com writes: << Recently a CR employee asked where the name "Rose" originated for the yard office and yard in Altoona (Juniata). Does anyone know where that name originated? Thanks for any input. >> Purely a guess. But at one time the overhead bridge near ROSE was called Rose Red Bridge because of the color it was painted. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:38:41 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Sights in Phila Content-Length: 1949 Greetings to Claus and the list: To see variety in passenger service at Philadelphia, and lots of it, 30th Street Station is the place to be. Silverliners on the SEPTA R1 Airport rail link route take about 20 minutes to get to 30th Street; on weekdays they generally run every half-hour. At 30th Street, walk outside the station and turn north (left if you're leaving the building by the exit near the Angel of Resurrection statue, right if leaving by the exit facing Conrail's High Line). From the parking deck across the street to the north, you can see the engine terminal and the High Line, and watch trains coming into and leaving the station. For photography, it's obviously a shot for southbounds only, approaching the station's lower level, but for sun angles it is generally good all day long. Trains using the lower level include clockers, Metroliners, corridor trains (Boston-DC), Florida trains, other long-hauls such as Vermonter and Three Rivers, Harrisburg trains, and NJT Atlantic City trains. Locomotive types include Amtrak Genesis diesels in both Amtrak and Northeast Corridor paint schemes, NJT rebuilt GP40s, AEM7s, E60s, and on work trains, rebuilt Geeps. The upper level of 30th Street, which is where you'll arrive from the airport, is reasonably OK for photos but the variety is more limited than what you'll find on the lower level, since it's all SEPTA -- either Silverliners or push-pull consists of AEM7-type electric locomotive+Bombardier coaches. Hope this will be of some help. Dan Dan Cupper cupper@ibm.net Romans 10:9-10 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:01:09 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] best looking coal -HO scale Content-Length: 862 This actually depends on what type of coal you are modeling. There are drastic differences in size between mine run coal, lump coal, stoker coal, home heating coal, power generating plant coal and coal for making coke. don't believe the labes on the various types. I have used a micrometer to measure the size available. N scale coal usually mics to the correct size for HO. I use a 2-3 inch size for steam tenders and most hopper loads with an occassional hopper with large size lumps. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Cumberland Valley Bridge Date: Fri, 17 Apr 98 13:23:26 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1099 Early and late track charts of the CV/NCRy junction at LEMO Tower (Lemoyne, Pa./Harrisburg) show the CV's one track intersecting the NCRy's two tracks. However, in one track chart there appears to be two CV tracks. Were there two at one point? Did two tracks cross the bridge into Harrisburg, or only one? The stub that remains on the east side is centered on the bridge, but perhaps there were once two. I'd like to know. Thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale: http://prr.dsop.com/layout/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Seeking info Date: Fri, 17 Apr 98 13:43:21 -0400 From: Rob Schoenberg Content-Length: 2127 Hi guys, I got this from Chas Clague Jr., can someone point him in the right direction? Thanks, Rob ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: ceclague@whidbey.net Return-Path: Received: from islander.whidbey.net by protocol.zycad.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09912; Fri, 17 Apr 98 13:01:13 EDT Received: from [204.57.140.53] (asn164.whidbey.net [204.57.140.53]) by islander.whidbey.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA14561 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:02:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:02:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: ceclague@mail.whidbey.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: robs@protocol.zycad.com From: "Charles E. Clague Jr." Subject: Seeking Info Your deep interest in the Pennsylvania Railroad makes me think you might be able to help. My Grandfather, George Jones COOK worked for the Pennsylvania Railroad . I am trying to trace his birth and parentage. He died in 1926 when I was three years old, so I can't ask him. All of his kids, including my mom, are gone too. He lived 1852?-1926, and family lore says he worked as a Railroad Freight Brakeman and Conductor in the Pittsburgh yards near Manchester and "around the point," probably 30 years or so in the 1880-1920 time frame.. I wrote to the U S Railroad Retirement Board in Chicago a week ago. They answered promptly and said they didn't begin keeping records untill 1936, therefore had no info. Were there Unions or guilds or other groups or record keeping agencies I could query? Where do I go next? Any leads will be appreciated Waiting Chas ------- End of Forwarded Message ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jpk815 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:14:23 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE passenger cars? Content-Length: 842 In a message dated 98-04-17 09:03:30 EDT, you write: << Does anyone have any information on DGLE passenger cars? I have already disabused him of the notion that all prr cars were "pullman green" although I realize that some were ;^) >> I remember from my youth on the Philadelphia Main Line that many of the MP54 MUs were green. I don't rememebr whther they were Pullman Green or DGLE although I suspect they were DGLE because I remember them as dark green JP Alexandria, VA ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:26:03 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Seeking info Content-Length: 644 The PRR employee records all went to Temple University in Philadelphia, PA. They will not generally release information for fear of violating privacy laws. If you contact them (Library) and explain your relationship and why you need the records, they may send copies to you. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Don R. Millbranth" Subject: Re: [PRR] Seeking info Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:16:54 -0500 Content-Length: 1794 Rob, Chas, et al... You might start by checking the vital records in PA. The following is the web site for those records, giving address, cost and records covered for PA. Good Luck don Subject: [PRR] Seeking info >Hi guys, > >I got this from Chas Clague Jr., can someone point him in the right direction? > >Thanks, > >Rob > > >From: "Charles E. Clague Jr." >Subject: Seeking Info > >Your deep interest in the Pennsylvania Railroad makes me think you might be >able to help. > >My Grandfather, George Jones COOK worked for the Pennsylvania Railroad . I >am trying to trace his birth and parentage. He died in 1926 when I was >three years old, so I can't ask him. All of his kids, including my mom, are >gone too. > >He lived 1852?-1926, and family lore says he worked as a Railroad Freight >Brakeman and Conductor in the Pittsburgh yards near Manchester and "around >the point," probably 30 years or so in the 1880-1920 time frame.. > >I wrote to the U S Railroad Retirement Board in Chicago a week ago. They >answered promptly and said they didn't begin keeping records untill 1936, >therefore had no info. > >Were there Unions or guilds or other groups or record keeping agencies I >could query? > >Where do I go next? Any leads will be appreciated > > Waiting Chas >------- End of Forwarded Message > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:48:00 -0500 From: tmahon@cfnh.com (Tom Mahon) Subject: Re: [PRR] need some info on marine craft Content-Length: 511 Another source is "By Rails to the Boardwalk" by Gladulich (Sp?) has several photos of the ferries and ferry facilities from Philly to Camden. Tom Mahon ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: FRANKGARON Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:48:39 EDT Subject: [PRR] Bring back a GG1? Content-Length: 2237 In the very preliminary stages of exploring the possibility of restoring a GG1. Far fetched as it may seem, I do have some contacts that may be able to help pull this off. I need help with the following: Which GG1's still have transformer intact? I hear conflicting info: 4877/4932/4934 do/do not have transformer intact. If all have transformers removed, is it feasable to design/substitute a replacement? I have talked to some people in the restoration movement, it seems possible without an inordinate expense. Who has knowledge of maintainence records of the last G's to run? I would need to figure out which of the available ones had recent work before retirement, best frame, etc in order to identify a viable candidate. I assure you that this is a serious effort. It seems that there are 2 camps out there; No way a G can ever run again/Yes, it can be done for around the cost of a mainline steam restoration. I have not seen this discussed at length anywhere since that black day in 10/83. Let's clear the record once and for all with a formal, realistic, practical examination of the issue. No rabid, unrealistic railfan dreaming here, just can it be done, and for how much. I am no expert, but with the contacts I have, the proper presentation to the railfan and industrial heritage/historical groups, plus a few political contacts/grants, etc it seems the biggest challange would be if a G is still structurally viable to restore/and will NJT or Amtrak help out somehow. Again, this is not one man's railfan daydream, let's keep the discussion realistic, factual and intelligent. No blanket statements, let's talk specifics. I do have the time availability/motivation to kick this thing off, or I would be happy to work with any/all interested parties. I welcome any/all intelligent comments. Frank Garon Perth Amboy, NJ ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RLA0220@webtv.net (RICHARD ADER) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:26:03 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Lamokin Tower Content-Length: 584 Can anyone tell me the status of Lamokin tower? Is it still in operation, or has amtrak razed it? If so, does anyone have pictures? If the building still exists, how do I get to it by car? Please help. Thank you Rich ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Jim Hudson" Subject: [PRR] re: need some info on marine craft Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 19:43:23 -0400 Content-Length: 608 I'm not sure what part of the PRR you're interested in. The Pennsy had an extensive fleet on the Chesapeake between Norfolk and Cape Charles. You might want to check out "Rails Along the Chesapeake" by John Hayman (if you can find a copy). Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Lamokin Tower Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 20:33:30 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ken Reinert" Content-Length: 1084 RICHARD ADER wrote: > Can anyone tell me the status of Lamokin tower? Is it still in > operation, or has amtrak razed it? If so, does anyone have pictures? > If the building still exists, how do I get to it by car? Lamokin has been out of service for quite some time now -- since the early '80s (sorry, I don't have a date handy). Although the structure still stands, it is in bad shape. There is an overhead bridge that is located immediately to the north of the tower (the tower is on the west side of the railroad) which makes it an easy target for *stuff* to be thrown at it (the tower, not the bridge). The neighborhood is not one of the best, so do be careful if you venture around there. Ken ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:53:51 -0700 From: ironhorse@sprintmail.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Bring back a GG1? Content-Length: 3368 FRANKGARON wrote: > > In the very preliminary stages of exploring the possibility of restoring a > GG1. Far fetched as it may seem, I do have some contacts that may be able to > help pull this off. > > I need help with the following: > > Which GG1's still have transformer intact? I hear conflicting info: > 4877/4932/4934 do/do not have transformer intact. > > If all have transformers removed, is it feasable to design/substitute a > replacement? > I have talked to some people in the restoration movement, it seems possible > without an inordinate expense. > > Who has knowledge of maintainence records of the last G's to run? I would need > to figure out which of the available ones had recent work before retirement, > best frame, etc in order to identify a viable candidate. > > I assure you that this is a serious effort. It seems that there are 2 camps > out there; No way a G can ever run again/Yes, it can be done for around the > cost of a mainline steam restoration. I have not seen this discussed at > length anywhere since that black day in 10/83. Let's clear the record once and > for all with a formal, realistic, practical examination of the issue. No > rabid, unrealistic railfan dreaming here, just can it be done, and for how > much. > > I am no expert, but with the contacts I have, the proper presentation to the > railfan and industrial heritage/historical groups, plus a few political > contacts/grants, etc it seems the biggest challange would be if a G is still > structurally viable to restore/and will NJT or Amtrak help out somehow. > > Again, this is not one man's railfan daydream, let's keep the discussion > realistic, factual and intelligent. No blanket statements, let's talk > specifics. I do have the time availability/motivation to kick this thing off, > or I would be happy to work with any/all interested parties. > > I welcome any/all intelligent comments. > > Frank Garon > Perth Amboy, NJ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". Frank, Try contacting the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania in Strasburg, PA, and the B&O Museum in Baltimore, MD. I can't remember if RRMPa has just "Old Rivets" #4800, or more (maybe "Black Jack" #4935), or if they're operable. The B&O Museum has the one that crashed through the Washington DC station (can't remember the # off the top of my head), and they have one other G. When I was there (MD) about 4-5 years ago, they had wanted to restore at least one to operating condition. I don't know if that has happened yet, but maybe either place has some information on the transformers and what might be a suitable substitute. Chuck Friedlein ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 21:40:40 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] GG-1 Content-Length: 873 Hi folks... The Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania had both 4800 and 4935 last i knew of. the B&O museum HAD two GG-1's but one was traded to a museum in wisconsin for a C&O ?engine. 489? the other GG-1 is famous for Washington crash...4876 Last i saw of it, It was in outside storage in south Baltimore at a museum storage site. hope they either get to it or already have...was kinda rusty. Til Later Hank Mummert ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 22:41:50 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Bring back a GG1? From: carl-vic-vogel@juno.com (Carl K Vogel) Content-Length: 2879 Frank: Astonishing! What a way to wake up a Friday night? I love it when sane people have a vision. Thanks, Carl K.Vogel Financially Depleted Chief Engineer Taunton & Tuckerton Railway >> >> In the very preliminary stages of exploring the possibility of >restoring a >> GG1. Far fetched as it may seem, I do have some contacts that may be >able to >> help pull this off. >> >> I need help with the following: >> >> Which GG1's still have transformer intact? I hear conflicting info: >> 4877/4932/4934 do/do not have transformer intact. >> >> If all have transformers removed, is it feasable to >design/substitute a >> replacement? >> I have talked to some people in the restoration movement, it seems >possible >> without an inordinate expense. >> >> Who has knowledge of maintainence records of the last G's to run? I >would need >> to figure out which of the available ones had recent work before >retirement, >> best frame, etc in order to identify a viable candidate. >> >> I assure you that this is a serious effort. It seems that there are >2 camps >> out there; No way a G can ever run again/Yes, it can be done for >around the >> cost of a mainline steam restoration. I have not seen this >discussed at >> length anywhere since that black day in 10/83. Let's clear the >record once and >> for all with a formal, realistic, practical examination of the >issue. No >> rabid, unrealistic railfan dreaming here, just can it be done, and >for how >> much. >> >> I am no expert, but with the contacts I have, the proper >presentation to the >> railfan and industrial heritage/historical groups, plus a few >political >> contacts/grants, etc it seems the biggest challange would be if a G >is still >> structurally viable to restore/and will NJT or Amtrak help out >somehow. >> >> Again, this is not one man's railfan daydream, let's keep the >discussion >> realistic, factual and intelligent. No blanket statements, let's >talk >> specifics. I do have the time availability/motivation to kick this >thing off, >> or I would be happy to work with any/all interested parties. >> >> I welcome any/all intelligent comments. >> >> Frank Garon >> Perth Amboy, NJ >> > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 22:50:17 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Sights in Phila From: carl-vic-vogel@juno.com (Carl K Vogel) Content-Length: 2836 Claus: Here's 2 ideas: You can ride the Septa Airport line to 30th street, or even better, to the underground station that connects the former Pennsy and Reading commuter lines. Walk around, enjoy it! it's part of the Philadelphia Gallery. You can walk up and see the old Reading Terminal, now the Phila Convention Center. The railway cover is now a large auditorium. You can eat on the first floor of the old Reading Terminal. Then, ride the Septa subway to 30th street, catch the next airport train line back to the airport. Or, rent a taxi, and drive to Front Street to see some of the Canadian Pacific, CSX, Conrail, St. Lawrence, Vermont Railway, Delaware & Hudson, diesels work. They are all there (as of 1 month ago). See my old posting. While there, stop at the USS United States, the most beautiful ocean liner ever built. Each way on the Airport line is $5.00. They run every 20 minutes. Thanks, Carl K.Vogel Financially Depleted Chief Engineer Taunton & Tuckerton Railway On Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:18:42 cschlund@sfsu.edu writes: >Hi everyone, > >On my way to the PRRT&HS convention, I'll be stuck at the >Phila airport for about 3 hours on Thurs morning with >nothing to do. As I understand >it, there is a rail connection (Silverliners???) from the airport >to 30th street station, and maybe beyond. Can anyone suggest a spot >I might get to by the train from the airport where I could >railfan for an hour or two while I kill some time? > >Thanks in advance... Claus > > >-------------------------***{}***------------------------- > >Claus Schlund (Shop Foreman, Bernal Heights Car & Foundry) >Modeling steam-era PRR in N scale - San Francisco, CA > >Interested in BHC&F products? Check out our no-longer-one-and-only >passenger car kit at >http://userwww.sfsu.edu/~cschlund/models/pullman.gif > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. >------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 23:52:38 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE passenger cars? Content-Length: 758 In a message dated 98-04-17 14:18:00 EDT, Jpk815@aol.com writes: << I remember from my youth on the Philadelphia Main Line that many of the MP54 MUs were green. I don't rememebr whther they were Pullman Green or DGLE >> Your youth wasn't that long ago! Those cars were the passenger version of Penn Central green! A number of the long distance cars got the same treatment. Rich Copeland ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: STEVEGG1 Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 00:41:25 EDT Subject: [PRR] Phillipsburg, NJ area Content-Length: 798 Greetings all, I was recently railfanning the Phillipsburg, NJ, Bethlehem, Allentown areas and not familiar with the track. I noticed PRR ran north-south line through Phillipsburg. My questions are did PRR just go through Phillipsburg and interchange with other roads there, and did PRR run trains into Bethlehem / Allentown areas via track rights assuming they didn't have their own right of way into these places. Many thanks!! Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Richard F. Makse" Subject: Re: [PRR] Phillipsburg, NJ area Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 07:20:02 -0400 Content-Length: 2216 STEVEGG1 wrote: >I was recently railfanning the Phillipsburg, NJ, Bethlehem, Allentown areas >and not familiar with the track. I noticed PRR ran north-south line through >Phillipsburg. My questions are did PRR just go through Phillipsburg and >interchange with other roads there, and did PRR run trains into Bethlehem / >Allentown areas via track rights assuming they didn't have their own right of >way into these places. The north/south PRR line was the PRR's Belvidere-Delaware Branch, running from Trenton to Manunka Chunk, NJ (along Route 46, north of Belvidere). The PRR had an interchange with the DL&W at Manunka Chunk for freight and also ran passenger trains via trackage rights from Manunka Chunk to Stroudsburg, PA at the edge of the Poconos. At one time, the Philadelphia-Stroudsburg traffic was terrific. I summered along the branch at Manunka Chunk from the early 50's until 1966 and remember the once-a-week passenger train that ran at the end and the Baldwin diesels that handled the interchange Between Belvidere, NJ and Phillipsburg, the L&HR had trackage rights over the PRR and thence over the CNJ to Allentown/Bethlehem. The PRR did its interchange work with the CNJ and the LV at Phillipsburg (Lehigh Junction). In this vicinity, the PRR crossed the Delaware two other times to get into Pennsylvania--once at Brainerd's, NJ-Martin's Creek, PA to tap the cement trade and again at Roxburg to access Pennsylvania Light and Power's Plant near Mt. Pleasant, PA. What's sadly left today is operated by Conrail and Shortline Services. Check Shortline's site at http://www.shortlineservices.com/rrlist.htm There was a history of the branch published in 1987 by Warren F. Lee called Down Along the Old Be-Del A History of the Belvidere Delaware Railroad Company ISBN 0-9616893-0-7 Dick Makse ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RLMower Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 09:39:10 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Cumberland Valley Bridge Content-Length: 1161 In a message dated 98-04-17 13:28:05 EDT, you write: << Early and late track charts of the CV/NCRy junction at LEMO Tower (Lemoyne, Pa./Harrisburg) show the CV's one track intersecting the NCRy's two tracks. However, in one track chart there appears to be two CV tracks. Were there two at one point? Did two tracks cross the bridge into Harrisburg, or only one? The stub that remains on the east side is centered on the bridge, but perhaps there were once two. I'd like to know. Thanks. >> The fifth (current) CVRR bridge was two tracks. When it was built in 1916 the southern longitudinal half supporting one track was completed in Feb 1916. Trains operated over it while the Northern half was under construction. The entire bridge was finished in Dec 1916. Randy ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: David Carey Subject: [PRR] PRR - Brook and Rapids Cars Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 09:35:05 -0600 Content-Length: 508 I don't have access to detailed reference materials. Does anyone have the names of the Brook and Rapids series cars used on the PRR? Thanks, GDC ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:19:46 -0400 From: bobsin@nac.net Subject: [PRR] Steam Trips Content-Length: 777 It's been reliably reported that steam excursions are planned between 30th Street and Harrisburg on September 12, 13, 19, and 20, which spf's should rejoice in. Unfortunately, no PRR power (can't have everything), engine will be the C&O 4-8-4 #614 of Ross Rowland's Iron Horse Enterprises. Trips also planned on ex-Erie lines, but that would be off-topic! John Bobsin NY Chapter NRHS newsletter editor and spf ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 11:33:29 -0700 From: ironhorse@sprintmail.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR - Brook and Rapids Cars Content-Length: 3272 David Carey wrote: > > I don't have access to detailed reference materials. Does anyone > have the names of the Brook and Rapids series cars used on the PRR? > > Thanks, GDC > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". David, The following comes from Vol. 1 #2 of the Pennsy Journal (Spring 1981). It has a list of PRR Pullman & Parlor cars in alphabetical order, so I extracted the "Rapids" and the "Brook" cars from it. Hope I didn't skip any. The color info. came from the PRRT&HS PRR Passenger Car Painting and Lettering book. Most cars were slab/smooth-sided, some were fluted, but not sure of complete breakdown, so haven't tried to pass that info. on here. RAPIDS cars : Allegheny..., Blue..., Buffalo..., Cascade..., Catawissa..., Clarion..., Clearfield..., Conemaugh..., Conestoga..., Conewago.., Fishing..., French..., Genesse..., Green..., Huron..., Illinois..., Juniata..., Kalamazoo..., Kankakee..., Kaskaskia..., Lehigh..., Miami..., Mackinaw..., Mahoning..., Manistee..., Mississippi..., Monongahela..., Muskegon..., Octoraro..., Ohio..., Penns..., Racoon..., Raritan..., Sangamon..., Schulykill..., Scioto..., Shenango..., Sherman..., Silver..., Stoney..., Sturgeon..., Swarta..., Tioga..., Tippecanoe..., Towanda..., Turtle..., Tuscarora..., Wheeling..., Wills... Blue Rapids & Buffalo Rapids (ACF-blt) delivered 9/50 and 10/50, respectively, painted 2-tone gray for PRR-C&NW-UP-SP "Overland" service. Blue Rapids repainted 4/56 to PRR Tuscan. Buffalo Rapids repainted 5/55 to UP yellow, then repainted 6/58 to PRR Tuscan. Silver Rapids (Budd-blt) all stainless for ATSF Cal. Zephyr service. Stoney Rapids delivered 12/48 in UP Yellow. Repainted 7/58 to PRR Tuscan. Swatara Rapids & Tioga Rapids (Pullman-blt) delivered 12/48 painted for "Texas Special. Repainted 5/60 and 10/60 to PRR Tuscan, respectively. Tippecanoe Rapids (Pullman-blt) delivered 12/48 in UP yellow. Repainted to PRR Tuscan in 2/57. BROOK cars: Magic..., Maiden..., Major..., Manor..., Maple..., Mar..., Marsh..., Martin..., May..., Meadow..., Memory..., Middle..., Mill..., Mineral..., Mirror..., Moor..., Morning... Morrow..., Mystic... Note that all the "Brook" cars' complete names started with words whose first letter was an "M". I take no credit for misspellings, (ie: "Swarta" or "Swatara" -- I'm not sure which is correct, but I'd vote for "Swatara") as they were taken straight from my resource material as spelled there. The usual other disclaimers apply :-) Hope this helps. Chuck Friedlein ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2 Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 17:12:23 EDT Subject: [PRR] Rapid Seris Cars Content-Length: 1133 Rapids Series Cars 10-Roomette; 6 Double Bedroom Sciota,Sturgeon both built by Budd Octoraro,Raccoon,Raritan,Sangamon,Schuylkill,Shenango,Sherman,Stoney,Swatara,T ioga,Tippecanoe,Towanda,Tuscarora,Wheeling,Wills,Juniata,Mackinaw,Catawissa,Cl arion,Clearfield,Conemaugh, Conestoga,Fishing,Illinois,Cyrus H. K. Curtis?,Kalamazoo,Kankakee,Kaskaskia,Lehigh,Turtle,Little Miami,Manistee,Monongahela all built by Pullman Standard Allegheny,Mississippi,Ohio,Penns,French,Genesee,Green,Huron,Ligonier, Loyalhanna,Perkimen,Park,Loyalsock,Dayton,Wissahickon,Delaware,Brandywine, Huntingdon,Lycoming,Amon G. Carter?,Fairless,Buffalo,Mahoning all built by AC&F Ed Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 17:20:06 -0400 From: Kent Loudon Subject: [PRR] Phillipsburg NJ Area Content-Length: 2225 Reply to STEVEGG1 Message Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 00:41:25 EDT >>I was recently railfanning the Phillipsburg, NJ, Bethlehem, Allentown areas and not familiar with the track. I noticed PRR ran north-south line through Phillipsburg. My questions are did PRR just go through Phillipsburg and interchange with other roads there, and did PRR run trains into Bethlehem / Allentown areas via track rights assuming they didn't have their own right of way into these places.<< Phillipsburg served mainly as a transfer for through freight between PRR and Lehigh & Hudson River. The actual interchange was Hudson Yard north of the current Rt 22 bridge. L&HR owned its own bridge and had trackage rights into Allentown over the CNJ. On occasion there may have been a run-through to Maybrook, NY as a PRR "detour" of backlog traffic from the NY car floats. P'burg was also an interchange with the CNJ, LV and DL&W (Washington Line), but mostly for local delivery. Except for local service north to Manunka Chunk, PRR freight trains did not normally run past P'burg and did not have trackage rights over any of the other lines. I am not certain if the stretch between Hudson Yard and the L&HR junction was owned by PRR or L&HR. I believe the tower at that point was PRR. Passenger service once operated through with PRR power from Trenton to East Stroudsburg via Manunka Chunk and the DL&W. (Has anyone ever seen a photo of a K4-powered train in the Delaware Water Gap ?) In the 1930's there was a daily through parlor car between Scranton and Philadelphia via this route. Going back earlier, before the completion of Hell Gate Bridge the line was the route of the overnight "Federal Express" and possibly a through day train between Boston & Washington. - Kent Loudon, Somerville, NJ 16:56 18-Apr-98 via OzWin 2.20 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2 Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 17:23:51 EDT Subject: [PRR] Brooks Series Cars Content-Length: 602 Brook Series Cars 5 Bedroom; 12 Duplex Single Rooms Maiden,Major,Maple,Mar,Meadow,Mill,Mineral,Mirror,Morning,Magic,Manor,Martin, May,Middle,Moor,Marsh,Memory,Morrow,Mystic built by Pullman Standard Ed Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 21:49:07 -0400 From: "McKeever, The Ex President" Subject: [PRR] Golden Spike on the PSMRC (Penn State) Modules Content-Length: 2502 LE Extra: 18 April 1998: Today saw the first incarnation of the Penn State Model Railroad Club's new modular layout in operation for the first time, at the Club's Spring 1998 Show. Almost flawless operation was the result, after 12 modules were connected into a 24' x 8' display. The first track was placed into service at about 11am, an hour behind schedule. The second track followed along at about 12:30. This display will be up in University Park/State College through 6pm Sunday April 19th, and again at Penn State Altoona/Ivyside Park's Slep Student Center on April 25th, 1998, from 10am-6pm. (The Altoona show happens to fall on the same day as the dedication of the new building at the Altoona Railroader's Memorial Museum). Admission is free, and some items will be for sale to help raise money for the club. Just six months ago, PSMRRC was in the process of dismantling the Club's fourth HO scale layout, given 25 days to tear out 12 years of work. The University's expansion of the Union Building required our old basement space for utility work. Working space is not availble during the project, so space has to be rented on the weekends. Setup and takedown is tedious, but we have no other choice. By published timeline, it will be at least 2 more years before a permanent home may be had, and if the series of delays is any indication, more than that. Come show your support for the displaced PSMRRC, either by attending, or by viewing our website and by signing our virtual visitors log: http://www.clubs.psu.edu/mrrc/module/index.html http://www.lpage.com/wgb/wgbsign.dbm?owner=psmrrc Rob McKeever Penn State Model Railroad Club http://www.clubs.psu.edu/mrrc/ -- Robert G. McKeever, II, KC4VDN rmckeever@psu.edu _____________________________ | ______ |_| | |_||_| | Richmond, Fredericksburg --------------------------|______ and Potomac Railroad ____________123___| | -------/ | | | 1834-1992 _________________|________|______| http://trainweb.com/rf&p ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2 Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 15:23:07 EDT Subject: [PRR] Altoona "Rose" (RV)Tower Content-Length: 1306 Sorry if this is very late. I found a referance to "Rose" tower in RNE 4-78. Rose interlocking was located beneath the 8th Street bridge in the Altoona Yard. Built Nov.17, 1907, rebuilt Oct. 16, 1939, remote to "Alto" interlocking April 1, 1974. Late in it's service life it was used as a yard office and crew change point. There is a photo by David Oroszi on page 36 of RNE 4-78. Notes from an aricle by Ed Spodobalski , ALTO INTERLOCKING. There also was a "Rose Connection". This permitted the yarding of trains for relay directly from the main line and avoids going down the secondary tracks from Rose to Antis saving running time. On a large map in the same issue, dated Dec. 17th, 1929, "Rose" is indicated by the letters "RV". Beneath "Red Bridge" (O.H. BR. #234.28) aside the East and Westbound Passenger Tracks at the throat of the Westbound Departure Yard and the Westbound Loaded Classification Yard. Ed Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: David Carey Subject: [PRR] PRR - Concor Observation Car Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 13:58:07 -0600 Content-Length: 473 Is the Concor streamlined observation car related to any known PRR prototype, or any other prototype for that matter? ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RLA0220@webtv.net (RICHARD ADER) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 22:41:28 -0400 Subject: [PRR] C Liners Content-Length: 705 I have just completed painting and decaling two AHM/IHC FM C Liner cab units. I have yet to install the radio antenni and the kay-dee couplers. My problem is with the couplers. The #5's do not line up correctly through the pilot. Has anyone mounted kay-dee couplers on these models and if so would you please tell me how? Thank you Rich ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 23:02:09 -0500 From: Andy Cich Subject: [PRR] Got Lucky Today Content-Length: 919 I went to a train show today, and the dealer at the first table had a stack of Proto 2000 locos. I was thumbing through the E8s when lo and behold - there were two PRR with 5 stripes, 5887 and 5898. I had given up on ever finding these. I quickly paid him amd snatched up my prize. I wonder how many others are still out there. I'm sure there are. Good luck to anybody else looking for these engines. There was another dealer with a DGLE E7B for $25. The woman there didn't have a card, otherwise I would have passed it on to this group. Andy C. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR - Concor Observation Car From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 98 08:32:42 -0400 Content-Length: 1056 I believer its an fair model of the Reading Crusader obs and nothing at all like thge PRR. I presume you are talking about the full length car. Talking about the accuracy of a shorty is an oxymoron. ;-) regards, Andy Miller Is the Concor streamlined observation car related to any known PRR prototype, or any other prototype for that matter? - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:02:35 EDT Subject: [PRR] Rapids Series Cars Content-Length: 463 And don't forget the SILVER RAPIDS - buily by BUDD for Pennsy's contribution to Californis Zephyr Dick Ross ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Cargo & "Wire Cloth" plant Date: Mon, 20 Apr 98 10:12:05 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1053 One York, Pa., scene I will be modeling is a "wire cloth" plant. Now I know that wire cloth is basically things like window screens, etc., but what kind of cargos -- and therefore cars -- would such a plant receive and ship? There were two such plants in Mount Wolfe, Pa., on the NCRy. The local history tells that at one point one of these supplied half of the window screens for Pullman! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale: http://prr.dsop.com/layout/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Cargo & "Wire Cloth" plant Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:23:42 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 1612 On 20 Apr, Jerry_Britton wrote: > One York, Pa., scene I will be modeling is a "wire cloth" plant. Now I > know that wire cloth is basically things like window screens, etc., but > what kind of cargos -- and therefore cars -- would such a plant receive > and ship? Well, given the era you're modelling, I'd say boxcars. :-) Seriously, incoming would be wire and ?welding? supplies (these days, larger sizes are spot-welded; I'm guessing about the early fifties), and outgoing would be rolls of wire cloth, and if they were thrifty, an occasional gon of scrap wire, although this can be used for tieing up the outgoing rolls. The inbound would occasionally include random plant equipment, everything from overhead cranes and hand trucks to a new boiler for the heating system. > There were two such plants in Mount Wolfe, Pa., on the NCRy. The local > history tells that at one point one of these supplied half of the window > screens for Pullman! Neat bit of history! Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Rapid Seris Cars From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 98 11:39:47 -0400 Content-Length: 2150 Ed Martin's list of RAPIDS series cars included two cars named for people. He followed this with a question mark. I suppose this indicated his confusion in how they came to exist in the "RAPIDS" series. While I am not sure about AMON G. CARTER, CYRUS H. K. CURTIS was renamed for the PITTSBURGER, all of whose cars were renamed for famous Pittsburg personalities. One other anomilie which is not highlited in his list, is FAIRLESS. While it it a 10-6, it is not technically a RAPIDS series car. The name is FAIRLESS HILLS. It too was a renaming of a car,previously painted in transcontinental service colors. regards, Andy Miller Rapids Series Cars 10-Roomette; 6 Double Bedroom Sciota,Sturgeon both built by Budd Octoraro,Raccoon,Raritan,Sangamon,Schuylkill,Shenango,Sherma n,Stoney,Swatara ,T ioga,Tippecanoe,Towanda,Tuscarora,Wheeling,Wills,Juniata,Mac kinaw,Catawissa, Cl arion,Clearfield,Conemaugh, Conestoga,Fishing,Illinois,Cyrus H. K. Curtis?,Kalamazoo,Kankakee,Kaskaskia,Lehigh,Turtle,Little Miami,Manistee,Monongahela all built by Pullman Standard Allegheny,Mississippi,Ohio,Penns,French,Genesee,Green,Huron, Ligonier, Loyalhanna,Perkimen,Park,Loyalsock,Dayton,Wissahickon,Delawa re,Brandywine, Huntingdon,Lycoming,Amon G. Carter?,Fairless,Buffalo,Mahoning all built by AC&F Ed Martin - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:35:11 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Webmaster Content-Length: 1966 Hi All, As you may recall, I CC:ed a message to Mr. George Burbage, PRRT&HS Webmaster to this group on 4/2/98. I immediately received notice that Mr. Burbage's email account was no longer valid, however the individual who runs the site where the page is located, responded that he had tried to forward the message to Mr. Burbage. Since then, I have not received any further responses. Can you IMAGINE the impression this gives of the PRRT&HS to non-members interested in finding out more? If anyone out there has a more current email address for Mr Burbage, would you please post it to me? Right now, we can't even email the individual supposedly responsible for the web page, as it contains the wrong email address!!!!!! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Webmaster Date: Mon, 20 Apr 98 13:55:14 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 2398 On 4/20/98 1:35 PM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: >As you may recall, I CC:ed a message to Mr. George Burbage, PRRT&HS >Webmaster to this group on 4/2/98. > >I immediately received notice that Mr. Burbage's email account > was no longer valid, however the individual who runs the >site where the page is located, responded that he had tried to forward the >message to Mr. Burbage. Since then, I have not received any further >responses. > >Can you IMAGINE the impression this gives of the PRRT&HS to non-members >interested in finding out more? > >If anyone out there has a more current email address for Mr Burbage, would >you please post it to me? Right now, we can't even email the individual >supposedly responsible for the web page, as it contains the wrong email >address!!!!!! I, too, tried this same route to reach Mr. Burbage. Same result. The society's page still says it is "All New!" yet is 18 months old! The index to "The Keystone" is well out of date, preventing sales of recent back issues. (See my site for an up-to-date index.) There is no mention of the national convention nor of its agenda...which would be a natural! Because of the potential perception of a conflict of interest, I'll stay quiet about it at the convention, but provide support for the person who does bring this to the floor. Someone, please speak up!!! BTW: I plan to distribute "Keystone Crossings" / "PRR-Talk" flyers at the convention. We picked up a lot of subscribers this way via the Altoona RailFest last fall. We're now well over 200! Hopefully they'll let me put them out right at the registration table. I'll be there early Friday morning. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale: http://prr.dsop.com/layout/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:41:48 -0500 (CDT) From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Webmaster Content-Length: 700 I think I remember seeing that Chuck Blardone, editor of the Keystone, joined the group recently. He might have some insight into a means of contacting the webmaster. Chuck's address is: blardone@redrose.net Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 harperd@tamug.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Tod Engine Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:11:08 EDT Subject: [PRR] Bring Back A GG-1 Content-Length: 2057 PRR Talk, I have been working with Frank Garon on the idea to restore a GG-1 to operable condition. I feel that a mechanical restoration is feasible, and we are currently researching the prospects of a G restoration. Actually, restoring a G would be about the same amount of work as restoring a mainline steam locomotive, and just about as expensive. However, the G would require less maintenance, would not pound the rail, have higher reliability and greater versatility than a 4-8-4, thus making it an excellent choice for excursions on the electrified lines of the northeast. I am looking for the mechanical and electrical specifications and drawings used in the construction of the GG-1s, especially the locomotive wiring diagrams. Would anybody know where these documents may exist at today? The Wilmington shops would have had these documents on file for use in their maintenace of the GG-1 fleet as late as 1983, but what happened to them after then? Altoona would also have had a set. Who has the PRR records from Altoona? One of our first objectives is to locate a GG-1 that would be available for restoration. The next step would be to locate or draw up a set of specifications for the main transformer and contact a transformer manufacturer to give us a price for making a new one. Third would be a thorough inspection of the candidate G to determine the amount of restoration work required. Once that is done an estimated cost of restoration can be drawn up and serve as our fundraising goal. Any help in locating the above information would be appreciated. Rick Rowlands Youngstown, OH (and a new member- this is my first post to PRR-Talk!) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Huber25 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:49:32 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Bring Back A GG-1 Content-Length: 700 My hat's off to anyone that can pull off getting a G-motor out and running again. Equally impressive as most steam I've seen! A cab ride in a G or riding behind one was exhilarating to say the least! Can you imagine the fight that's going to take place over the "proper" livery to run it under? That'll be a long topic! Good luck! Roger ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:19:25 +1000 From: Andrew Subject: [PRR] T1 Content-Length: 576 I am not quite sure but I think this may be just for modellers this service but I'll ask anyway... Where & why was P.R.R T1 No. 5547 converted to Walschaerts gear? Any comments appreciated! Regards, Andrew ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kevin Tully" Subject: [PRR] PRR Publications Listing Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 20:07:42 PDT Content-Length: 1917 To all, I am going to host a page on my site that will list publications, owned by private persons who are willing to referance information within those publications for others. If you are willing to do this, please send me your email address, the title of the publication, date of publication, and the referance number of the publication (if it's a PRR magazine, send me the issue and vol. number). Between all of us who are PRR enthusiasts, we should be able to come up with quite a "virtual" library of PRR publications (manuals, books, magazines, etc.) that should make referancing much easier than going through the local library/historical society, all of these to be accompanied by the owners email address. This way, you just look up the publication that has the information you need, click on the owners name, and send out an email with the request for the desired information. Owners should then respond with a quote for any shipping/copying costs the requestee would encoure. The format of the list should be with numbered publications in order, with sub-catagory by date of pub. by number, magazines by date/vol. and books by alpha by title. If anyone has any suggestions on how to make this more efficient, please feel free now, or after the list is up, to make the suggestion. Kevin J. Tully PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD FOREVER http://www.aimsinc.com/fm&c/ ICQ: 10442115 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kevin Tully" Subject: [PRR] U.S. Railway Operating Battalion Update Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 20:15:18 PDT Content-Length: 1041 To all, I've made a few updates to the USROB/RSB page. For those interested, take a look. This project is HUGE, so keep looking back. Alot more information will be updated as soon as I get to Maryland and have access to the archives, and the other warped mind, Tim Moriarty, who is providing a major amount of the information that will go into the page. Thanks Tim. Kevin J. Tully C.E.O. FOXBURG, MT. JEWETT & CORYDON RAILROAD Co. "The Allegheny Route" A Division Of The PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD CORP. http://www.aimsinc.com/fm&c/ ICQ: 10442115 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Leary" Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 23:57:46 +0000 Subject: [PRR] 1948 PRR Broadway Ltd. availalbe Content-Length: 834 If you are interested in acquiring the ten (10) car PRR Broadway Limited set as imported by Oriental Limited, please visit: www.brasstrains.com At this web site, click on "Our Current Catalogue of Rolling Stock." Next, click on " PRR - Pennsylvania Railroad". Or, you may call Howard Zane at (410) 730-1036 [ Days and Evenings, 9am - 11pm ] for details. Please note that pricing is negotiable. Thank you. Sincerely, Greg Leary (electronically signed) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: STEVEGG1 Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 01:46:24 EDT Subject: [PRR] GG1 Content-Length: 702 Rick, In response to restoring a GG1. There is a group in NY that has 2 GG1's at Cooperstown Jct (at least they where there about 5 years ago). Leatherstocking Railway Historical Society. Maybe they can help you out with info you need. If memory serves, one G came from Wilmington & Western RR in Delaware and other came from Steamtown. Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:42:25 +0000 From: jerry@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Interesting item on eBay web site item#11147876: PRR West Content-Length: 1737 This item is at eBay, and the auction closes tomorrow. Would be great if someone snagged it for scanning and posting on "Keystone Crossings". I cannot afford it, as I am currently bidding on a track chart of the Middle Division, which is also for posting on "KC". Title of item: PRR West End Emp Timetable - 266 pages MINT Seller: dasarno@aol.com Starts: 04/15/98 15:32:16 PDT Ends: 04/22/98 15:32:16 PDT Price: Currently $28.00 To bid the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=11147876 Item Description: Mint condition timetable #4, dated April 24, 1966, for the entire west end of the Pennsylvania Railroad. Includes Buckeye, Chicago, Fort Wayne, and Southwestern Divisions. Absolutely perfect condition with page after page of station columns, speed restrictions, hours of station/tower operations, tonnage, interlocking instructions, US Mail work, ticket office hours, arranged freight train schecules, etc. Lots of PRR passenger services into Chicago, Cincinnati, St. Louis, and Louisville shown. At 266 pages, this is as fat a Pennsy timetable as you'll ever find except for the NY and Philadelphia commuter services. A beautiful PRR employee timetable. This monster of information will require high bidder to pay $3.00 postage/handling. The Leading Person-to-Person Auction Community on the Web! http://www.ebay.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:56:40 -0500 (CDT) From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr." Subject: [PRR] PRR: Tender lights Content-Length: 1423 I checked my files dealing with lights and could not find anything relating to this question: Where were the marker lights and backup light mounted on long distance tenders pulled by I-1 engines? Or did the tenders lack these lights? I started doing some detailing of my 6 axle tender last night and was going to mount the lights. I checked all my photos and not a one shows the marker lights on the rear corners of the tenders. Same with all the books I checked. Nor can I see the outline of the back up light mounted on top. Some photos show two I-1 engines, and the rear engine generally has a short tender with lights on the corners. Does this mean the engines never ran in reverse if they had long distance tenders? Or are the lights mounted down on the sill somewhere where they don't show in the photos? The only photo I've seen where a long distance tender had marker lights was behind a M-1. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 harperd@tamug.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Ingot Mold Car Date: Tue, 21 Apr 98 19:23:22 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 710 There are now photos online of Liberty Model Productions' new Ingot Mold Car in HO Scale. See http://liberty.dsop.com She's a beauty! ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:53:44 +1000 From: Andrew Subject: [PRR] T1 Content-Length: 512 Do you know why T1 No. 5500 was converted to the Rotary cam poppets in 1948 please? Thank you liberty for your last respons. Regards, Andrew ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 06:41:06 -0400 From: Frank Bagrash Subject: [PRR] book? Content-Length: 543 Hi, Does anybody know the name of the book that dealt with the narrow gauge line across the panhandle? I believe this railroad eventually was merged into the PRR. Thanks, Frank ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:35:05 -0500 (CDT) From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr." Subject: [PRR] PRR: Long distance tenders Content-Length: 551 Another question: Did long distance tenders have water scoops? Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 harperd@tamug.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:42:11 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 Content-Length: 2575 Dear Andrew, >I am not quite sure but I think this may be just for modellers this >service but I'll ask anyway... > >Where & why was P.R.R T1 No. 5547 converted to Walschaerts gear? > >Do you know why T1 No. 5500 was converted to the Rotary cam poppets in >1948 please? > Paraphrased from the November 1959 Trains article on Duplex Drive locomotives: Baldwin's original design specified Walschaerts valve gear, however the PRR, perhaps blinded by the success of the Franklin rotary poppet valves on K4 #5399 ordered the 6110 and 6111 with these instead. Baldwin asked to build one loco with each to allow direct comparisons and was turned down. With the success of these locos and the fantastic Altoona test plant numbers from 6110, all of the production models were ordered with Walschaerts valve gear. Unfortunately, the location of the rear set was both dirty, and innaccessible, creating a real headache for shop crews. Apparently, the nice clean environment of the Altoona Test Plant failed to appropriately duplicate the running environment of the real world! The 5500 was equipped with Franklin continuous rotary contour cams, and the 5547 with Walschaerts valve gear, in an attempt to solve some of the maintainence and running problems of the T-1. Interestingly, the 5547 also received new cylinders and was classified as a T-1a. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:41:07 -0700 From: Bill Daniels Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/22/98 Content-Length: 2301 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: PRR: Tender lights > From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr." > Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:56:40 -0500 (CDT) > > I checked my files dealing with lights and could not find anything relating to > this question: Where were the marker lights and backup light mounted on long > distance tenders pulled by I-1 engines? Or did the tenders lack these lights? Nah...the marker and backup lights on the newer tenders were mounted on the back wall of the tender and recessed into the tank. No wonder you missed them. > The only photo I've seen where a long distance tender had marker lights was > behind a M-1. This is interesting, since the style of tender that Bowser (and earlier Penn Line) offers with the I1s is actually a design associated with the first style of long distande tender used behind M1a's. It was rarely (if at all) used behind an I1s. This continued a long Penn Line/Bowser tradition of using the wrong design behind their locomotives (but was recitfied when Bowser offered their M1a with this tender some years ago.) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: T1 > From: Andrew > Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:53:44 +1000 > > Do you know why T1 No. 5500 was converted to the Rotary cam poppets in > 1948 please? > > By the late 1940's it was apparent to the Pennsy that the original style of poppets were highly unsatisfactory on the T1's. This was due to the extremely difficult to maintain location of the rear distrubution box (a.k.a steam chest, located UNDER the boiler) as well as the postwar inflation of wages) They tried several different fixes, Continous contour rotary cam poppets on 5500, Walscharts gear on 5547 (resulting in class T1a) but the ultimate fix was found in the E7 (sigh!) > Regards, Bill Daniels ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 98 11:34:21 CST Subject: Re: [PRR] book? Content-Length: 1134 On Wed, 22 Apr 1998 06:41:06 -0400, Frank Bagrash wrote: >Hi, > >Does anybody know the name of the book that dealt with the narrow gauge >line across the panhandle? I believe this railroad eventually was merged >into the PRR. Hi, All, The book was THREE FEET ON THE PANHANDLE by Morgan and Gaevert (I may have the names a little off). It came out in the mid-1980s and is an excellent and complete history of the Waynesburg & Washington RR -- lots of photos, maps, equipment and stations drawings, as well as good history. It's been out of print for some time. If you need more info, like ISBN #, let me know. PRR (narrowly) forever! Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: [PRR] any members ... Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:24:02 EDT Content-Length: 393 Any members in the Minneapolis area ? ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] York, Pa. Businesses Date: Wed, 22 Apr 98 12:35:48 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1697 Looking to model a portion of the York Yard, on the north side of York, Pa. Parallel to the yard were numerous industries and businesses. I am looking for more info on some of these: There was a siding for "D. Eugene Frey". It is noted on the 1945 CT1000E, as well as a 1960s map. Anyone know what type of business this was? There was a siding, which split into two spurs, for an "Eastern States Farmers Exchange". It was also in the 1945 CT1000E and on the map from the 1960s. Anyone know what type of commerce this place did? Logic tells you it could be anything farm-related. Doubt it was cattle, though that would be ideal given the quality of Walther's kit. May have been a grain elevator perhaps? Two others that are fairly obvious, are the "New York Wire Cloth Co." and "York Building Supply". There is also "Cole Steel Co.". I'll have to research this further -- as some of it still stands -- to see what all they made and if the Walther's steel series kits might be applicable. Thanks in advance! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale: http://prr.dsop.com/layout/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:01:33 -0500 From: tmahon@cfnh.com (Tom Mahon) Subject: [PRR] P5a's in O Scale Content-Length: 1045 Greetings, In addition to PRR-Talk, I subscribe to a Trolley list. I am passing this along FYI. Yesterday, a thread started on models of heavy PRR electrics being developed. It seems that Loco Works is working on issueing a kit in O Scale (the only scale they provide products in) for a P5a. The test etchings were being sent for approval this week. Before you deluge me with questions, THAT'S ALL I KNOW! I sent an e-mail to the originator of the thread but have not received a response. If I get more info, I'll pass it along. Perhaps somebody has a more knowledge of this outfit and can get more detailed info, either way, I hope this is not old stuff. Regards, Tom Mahon ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:18:56 -0500 From: "Laird, Bill (GWise)" Subject: CT1000E? (was [PRR] York, Pa. Businesses) Content-Length: 899 Date: 04/22/1998 07:17 pm (Wednesday) From: Bill Laird To: INET.MAIL("PRR-Talk@dsop.com") Subject: CT1000E? (was [PRR] York, Pa. Businesses) What is the 1945 CT1000E? >>> PRR-Talk@dsop.com 04/22/98 11:35am wrote, in part>>> >>>Looking to model a portion of the York Yard, on the north side of York, Pa. Parallel to the yard were numerous industries and businesses. I am looking for more info on some of these: There was a siding for "D. Eugene Frey". It is noted on the 1945 CT1000E <<< remainder of post deleted >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: CT1000E? (was [PRR] York, Pa. Businesses) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 98 14:52:00 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1793 On 4/22/98 2:18 PM, Laird, Bill (GWise) (William.Laird@coastalcorp.com) wrote: >What is the 1945 CT1000E? As the Pennsy "Glossary of Terms" under the FAQs link (http://prr.dsop.com/faqs/) at "Keystone Crossings" reveals, the "CT1000" is a "List of Stations and Sidings..." that was published in 1923 and again in 1945. The "E" suffix indicates that it is a subvolume containing the "eastern" portion of the PRR. There were also "W" (west) and "C" (central) editions. These books contain a list of every siding and station along every main, branch, etc., of the entire PRR! They indicate business names, mileposts, station and telegraph locations, etc. The back portion of the book also contains interchange points and stations having jurisdiction over them. The CT1000E from 1923 and the CT1000C from 1945 are available in Adobe Acrobat format at "Keystone Crossings" (http://prr.dsop.com/docs/) as well as via CD-ROM. I am in the process of scanning and preparing the CT1000E from 1945. As yet, nobody has offered to lend me a CT1000W from 1945, which I would really like to add to complete the set. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale: http://prr.dsop.com/layout/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 14:22:38 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: Re: [PRR] York, Pa. Businesses Content-Length: 1265 Greetings to Jerry and the group, Concerning what industries did, made, received and shipped, a lot of info can be gathered from the Sanborn fire insurance maps. Sometimes the maps indicate what is stored in what area of the building whether raw materials or finished goods. Jerry, I know you get up this way at various times. Try to allow about two to three hours for a stop at Pattee Library at University Park (PSU). They have the complete set of Sanborns for Pennsylvania. I believe you will find the time well spent. The maps will also allow you to make, if you want, a very true to scale model of York. Really, you got to take a look at these things. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA At 12:35 PM 4/22/98 -0400, Jerry_Britton wrote in part: >There was a siding for "D. Eugene Frey". It is noted on the 1945 CT1000E, >as well as a 1960s map. Anyone know what type of business this was? > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:30:14 -0400 From: "s.a. mccall" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Long distance tenders Content-Length: 1256 Greetings, There is a great picture in the MR cyclopedia Steam Locos. pg 181 top shows a water scoop very plainly. The plans at bottom of same page also show a water scoop........................The plans are for the M1 & M1a..... At 08:35 AM 4/22/98 -0500, you wrote: >Another question: Did long distance tenders have water scoops? > >Don Harper >Texas A&M Marine Lab >5007 Avenue U >Galveston, TX 77551 >409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 >harperd@tamug.tamu.edu > > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. >------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > Sincerely, S.A. McCall HOSAM Franklin, Va. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] KCFlyer.PDF Date: Wed, 22 Apr 98 16:59:58 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1493 There is a flyer I created some time ago that advertises both "Keystone Crossings" and "PRR-Talk". I often print a bunch and put them out at shows. We picked up over 50 subscribers this way via RailFest in Altoona last year! Anyway, I am printing 200 for distribution at the PRRT&HS convention next week. I have created an Adobe Acrobat PDF of the file so that anyone can download it and print it for giving to a friend, or for printing a bunch for shows that you go to. The URL of the file is http://prr.dsop.com/KCFlyer.pdf It is only 23K in size. Please consider printing some for shows that you go to. Thanks. BTW: If anyone prints more for the PRRT&HS convention, I'd appreciate it. I'll try to get them located at the registration table (if there is one). Otherwise, perhaps in the vendor's room. It would be appreciated if vendor's would place copies on their tables. Thanks, again! ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:28:10 -0500 From: Dick Taylor Subject: Re: [PRR] any members ... Content-Length: 595 bejm@eeg.ccf.org wrote: > > Any members in the Minneapolis area ? > How "area" do you mean? I live in lovely, suburban Dalbo MN. Halfway between Cambridge and Princeton. Thats about 60 mile norf of MSP. Regards, Dick Taylor ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: carl.haslett@lmco.com Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:12:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Prototype PRR interchanges Content-Length: 1130 Hello to all, I am planning a TWO-track PRRMO corner module and would like to feature an interchange between the PRR and another eastern line. (LV, Erie, EL, CNJ, D&H, B&O, C&O, etc. or PRR branch or shortlines. yeah, OK, even NYC) I would appreciate suggestions or information from anyone on the list about possible prototype locations where such an interchange may have existed, especially if there was some type of curve in the two-track main in the vicinity of that location. I could also work with locations that were a single track main with a passing siding at the interchange, so that a two-track representation is still accurate. Please reply directly to me at: carl.haslett@lmco.com to conserve list bandwidth. Thank you, Carl ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JDPanza Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:20:05 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: Web Site For Rails-To-Trails in PA Content-Length: 695 Barbara@amsignal.com reported that the Pennsylvania Rails-To-Trails site is no longer available. While the site exists, the links that were in this page that lead to the details of each line are no longer active. Any idea why they were discontinued? They were active as of 3/19/98 when I printed out the details for Armstrong County. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Web Site For Rails-To-Trails in PA Date: Wed, 22 Apr 98 21:02:58 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1707 On 4/22/98 8:20 PM, JDPanza (JDPanza@aol.com) wrote: >Barbara@amsignal.com reported that the Pennsylvania Rails-To-Trails site >is no >longer available. While the site exists, the links that were in this page >that lead to the details of each line are no longer active. Any idea why >they >were discontinued? They were active as of 3/19/98 when I printed out the >details for Armstrong County. Bob Zoeller (bob@amsignal.com) was a subscriber to the "PRR-Talk", "Conrail-Talk", and "PRRMO" lists. This Barbara person has been flaming the heck out of my accounts telling me not to send anymore mail -- as if it was coming from me!!! All she had to do was read the damn mail headers which tell you how to unsubscribe! Anyway, I think the "bob" address is now off all the lists. Don't know the story about Bob...if it was a business where he is no longer employed, or what. Was the Rail-Trail site an official PA site or a hobby site? If official, someone should be fixing at the state's end. If it was a private site, the maintainer (probably Bob) could contact me about possible hosting (for free). ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Knepper" Subject: Re: [PRR] book? Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:06:08 -0500 Content-Length: 2271 Three Feet on the Panhandle, by Larry L. Koehler , with Morgan J. Gayvert....1st printing...March 1983, second printing May 1983......Published and distributed by "Railhead Publications"........1308 Harrison Ave. Canton, Ohio 44706 ISBN # 0-9121130-00-6 ( was 29.95 ) And it is a great book on the 3 foot line ( PRR kitty gauge ) W&W # 4 is still at the Green County Historical Society Museum , in Waynesburg, Pa. If you need more info ......I have the book and a copy of the PRRT&HS "Keystone" which also had an article on the #4. Bill Knepper > From: George Pierson > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] book? > Date: Wednesday, April 22, 1998 12:34 PM > > On Wed, 22 Apr 1998 06:41:06 -0400, Frank Bagrash wrote: > > >Hi, > > > >Does anybody know the name of the book that dealt with the narrow gauge > >line across the panhandle? I believe this railroad eventually was merged > >into the PRR. > > > Hi, All, > > The book was THREE FEET ON THE PANHANDLE by Morgan and Gaevert (I may have > the names a little off). It came out in the mid-1980s and is an excellent > and complete history of the Waynesburg & Washington RR -- lots of photos, > maps, equipment and stations drawings, as well as good history. It's been > out of print for some time. If you need more info, like ISBN #, let me > know. > > PRR (narrowly) forever! > > Sincerely, > > George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu > Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Knepper" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Long distance tenders Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:10:16 -0500 Content-Length: 1352 It sure looks like it from the pictures that I have seen.......But the plans for all the tenders are in the Harrisburg Museum........And I know they can give you the answer that you are looking for.....Good Luck Bill Knepper ---------- > From: Donald E. Harper, Jr. > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] PRR: Long distance tenders > Date: Wednesday, April 22, 1998 8:35 AM > > Another question: Did long distance tenders have water scoops? > > Don Harper > Texas A&M Marine Lab > 5007 Avenue U > Galveston, TX 77551 > 409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 > harperd@tamug.tamu.edu > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2 Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 21:43:48 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Long distance tenders/ 6-axles or 8-axles? Content-Length: 1749 Don and All, It seems hard to imagine a Pennsy tender without a water scoop. Especially on the more modern types . Let's all be more specific on this topic. I know for sure the Q-1 & Q-2s all had scoops and the marker/back- up lights recessed into the rear of the (8-axle) tender. I refer you to E.T. Harley's book "The Pennsylvania Railroad Q-2 Duplex". The Q tender class is 180-F-84. Since the new duplex locomotives were pretty much gone in the early 1950s (1/52 thru 12/55) these tenders may have been re-used behind other locomotives. I photographed a tender next to the coal tipple in Hagerstown Md.7/7/75. It was a class 210-F-75A (8-axles) it also had the recessed lights on the back of the tender. I believe this tender was for a M-1a class loco. The J-1s received the 210-F-84 (8-axle) tender also with scoops & recessed lights on the back. The 210-F-75 appears to have been built with 6-axles for the M-1a locos and my have been re-fitted with recessed lights? See "Pennsy Power" by Alvin F. Staufer page #202 (photo by Bob Lorenz). Don, getting back to your question about a 6-axle tenders and did they have recessed lights? I think yes. But not many. I am finding more photos of 8-axle tenders behind Hippos (I-1s) than 6-axle tenders. And yes to the water scoop on these long distance tenders. Anybody jump in here and help if you can help. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 22:08:06 -0500 From: Steve Long Subject: [PRR] here's another narrow gauge book for the Panhandle Content-Length: 531 Here's another one: Narrow Gauge In Ohio by John W. Hauck deals with the Cincinnati, Lebanon and Northern Railway ISBN 0-87108-629-8 Printed 1985 Steve Long ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 22:30:12 -0400 From: David Carl Mallonee Subject: Re: [PRR] GG-1 Content-Length: 992 bubbles@visi.net wrote: > Hi folks... > > The Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania had both 4800 and 4935 last i knew of. > the B&O museum HAD two GG-1's but one was traded to a museum in wisconsin for > a C&O ?engine. 489? the other GG-1 is famous for Washington crash...4876 > Last i saw of it, It was in outside storage in south Baltimore > at a museum storage site. > hope they either get to it or already have...was kinda rusty. > > Til Later > Hank Mummert 4877 is sitting in the yard in Hoboken - Conrail or NJTransit??? ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Tender lights Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 01:46:10 -0500 Content-Length: 4855 Don and everyone: Maybe we can sort the I1 tender situation out. One key to answering the which tender behind an I1 question is "when." Tender application was very much a moving target as requirements changed, new classes of engines and tenders were built, and, later, as engines were retired. I model early fifties so here is what I think I have learned from research on published photos, confining the discussion only to "long distance" tenders and to the early fifties. Generally, tenders with 6 wheel trucks were of riveted construction and classed as 210F82 when fitted out for use with an I1. These were oringinally built with the M1a's but there also was a batch of, I think, 100 built without engines. Generally, tenders with 8 wheel trucks were of welded construction and classed as 210F82a and 210F82b for the I1. (Note the use of "generally"; on the PRR there was an exception to anything! There was at least one welded tender with 6 wheel trucks but I have not seen a photo of it with an I1.) There also were several 250F82 tenders on I1s; these were riveted with 6 wheel trucks and what appears to be a very long tank area behind the coal bunker. Some pictures you might want to look at: Pennsy Power II on page 44 is a good shot of the 250F82 as does Pennsy Steam Years Vol 2, page 90. Pennsy Steam A to T on page 88 shows a 210F82 (that's the riveted type) as does Pennsy Steam Years Vol 2 on page 48, the lower picture. If you look carefully rivet rows are visible at the lower front corners and along the side parallel to and below where the top of the side angles in over the coal. The other I1's on page 48 and on 49 have the welded 210F82a or b. >From an earlier era, judging by the shape of the feedwater heater, in Pennsylvania Railroad's Elmira Branch on page 63 is 4612 with a riveted 210F82. All of these classes could be equipped with either the one man "doghouse" or the three man type. The marker light question is not easy because the rear of tenders was not often photographed, but all the tenders had to be equipped to enable light engine moves or pusher service at night. Generally (there it is again!) the welded tenders had lights built into the back wall of the tender. These were rear facing only; I guess the need to have lenses to the side was eliminated. If photos of the riveted types do not show them mounted on top of the rear wall, as the shorter tenders, they were mounted just below the top of the rear wall. I know I have seen a photo of that installation but I can't put my hand on it readily right now. The Bowser "long distance" tender was not the most common behind an I1, but it very definitely was used there. It is an accurate model; too bad Bowser's other tenders missed the mark by so much. Hope this helps! Steve ---------- > From: Donald E. Harper, Jr. > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] PRR: Tender lights > Date: Tuesday, April 21, 1998 3:56 PM > > I checked my files dealing with lights and could not find anything relating to > this question: Where were the marker lights and backup light mounted on long > distance tenders pulled by I-1 engines? Or did the tenders lack these lights? > > I started doing some detailing of my 6 axle tender last night and was going to > mount the lights. I checked all my photos and not a one shows the marker lights > on the rear corners of the tenders. Same with all the books I checked. Nor can > I see the outline of the back up light mounted on top. > > Some photos show two I-1 engines, and the rear engine generally has a short > tender with lights on the corners. Does this mean the engines never ran in > reverse if they had long distance tenders? Or are the lights mounted down on > the sill somewhere where they don't show in the photos? > > The only photo I've seen where a long distance tender had marker lights was > behind a M-1. > > Don Harper > Texas A&M Marine Lab > 5007 Avenue U > Galveston, TX 77551 > 409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 > harperd@tamug.tamu.edu > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 04:07:33 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Fwd: Re: [PRR] Re: Web Site For Rails-To-Trails in PA Content-Length: 1485 ---Jerry wrote: > > On 4/22/98 8:20 PM, JDPanza (JDPanza@aol.com) wrote: > > >Barbara@amsignal.com reported that the Pennsylvania Rails-To-Trails site > >is no > >longer available. While the site exists, the links that were in this page > >that lead to the details of each line are no longer active. Any idea why > >they > >were discontinued? > Was the Rail-Trail site an official PA site or a hobby site? If official, Don't know what site the above is talking about, but... The Department of Conservation and Natural Resources operates a web site at www.dcnr.state.pa.us. Yes, it is official; yes, it's active; yes, it has a ton-o-stuff on Rails-to-Trails. There are notes there to the effect that the Rails-to-Trails part of it had it's genesis in a project by two students at Shippensburg. Perhaps that one is the one that's finally stopped working? Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 04:21:33 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] A Conemaugh Division question Content-Length: 1911 I've been studying the 1923 CT1000. As someone remarked here the other month, the PRR tended to have a Main Line in each division. I agree, sort of, since the CT1000 usually has one line in each division which is NOT called "xxxxx Branch". (Exception: Tyrone Division, where every track is named " Branch".) So, I have formed a rule "The line which is not named as a branch must be the Main Line." Now I come to the Conemaugh Division. The line from Conpitt Junction down the Conemaugh river to Saltsburg, down the Kiskiminitas to Kiski Junction, across the Allegheny to Freeport and down the west side of Allegheny to Pittsburgh North Side is, by the rule above, the Main Line. But, by 1923, the former Allegheny Valley Railroad/Railway line from Kiski Junction down the east bank of the Allegheny to Pittsburgh (Strip District) had become part of the Conemaugh Division. The CT1000 gives no name for that line, but it seems unlikely that the Conemaugh Division would have 2 Main Lines. (Although with no Main Line in the Tyrone Division, someone would have to have 2 to keep the average up.) So, the question: What did the Pennsylvania Railroad call that line? I recall dimly that The Keystone had an article on that line some time ago, so perhaps someone with a better memory (or better filing system) than mine can tell me. Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:04:53 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: Re: [PRR] Prototype PRR interchanges Content-Length: 3038 Greeting to Carl and the group, On the Bald Eagle Branch, the PRR interchanged cars with the NYC just west of Mill Hall. The PRR and NYC were parallel through Mill Hall and less than a 100 yards or so apart at times. Behind the BEN (Bald Eagle Nittany) High School, the NYC ducked under the PRR. Just east of there was the small, two track interchange. The NYC was single track with a passing siding at Mill Hall. The Bald Eagle Branch, from the mid 40s on, was single track with passing sidings though none at Mill Hall. Here are a couple of former PRR Harrisburg-Buffalo Line interchanges that come quickly to mind. At RICH (McElhattan, PA) the NYC interchanged entire NYC trains with the PRR. The NYC had trackage rights on the PRR from RICH to KEATING (north of Renovo). At one time the NYC line from Avis was double tracked to the double tracked PRR at RICH. Williamsport could be another interchange point. This could be done by hidden stagging. PRR's freight line stayed on the south side of the W. Branch Susquehanna River while its 'main line' or passenger route crossed the river at LINDEN and ALLENS. The main line passed Newberry, Williamsport between Linded and ALLENS. At Newberry the PRR interchanged with the Reading, NYC and EL, which had trackage rights on the NYC. You could have the main come off at Linden, duck behind the backdrop to represent Newberry and Williamsport, then reappear at ALLENS. This would also provide a stagged connection to the Elmira Branch via Newberry. The bridge at ALLENS was removed from service in the early 50s. That was when the wye at Linden was completed with the addition of the 'O' track. Then the line from Linden to South Williamsport became the main line and the line through Newberry and Williamsport became the Williamsport Branch. Passenger trains then headed in to Williamsport from Linden. When their station work was complete the passenger trains had to back up to the wye at Newberry tower to get turned around. In later years, the passenger trains backed the whole way to Linden to use the wye there to get headed in the correct direction. At Milton, the PRR interchanged with the Reading. There was a crossing at grade and everything. The Reading crossed the PRR at grade at Montgomery too but there was not an interchange. PRR's Buffalo line was double track with passing sidings until the early 50s. Begining in the early 50s, the PRR began making the line single track with passing sidings. They began this conversion at the southern end of the line and progressing north. By the time of the merger, they had reached Lock Haven. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:41:32 -0400 From: mxb13@psu.edu (Michael Bezilla) Subject: Re: [PRR] Prototype PRR interchanges Content-Length: 785 >Here are a couple of former PRR Harrisburg-Buffalo Line interchanges that >come quickly to mind. At RICH (McElhattan, PA) the NYC interchanged entire >NYC trains with the PRR. I don't think RICH was an interchange point, it was simply the place where water level route trains got on/got off PRR iron for the trip to/from Keating Jct. Drew, if I'm wrong here, and traffic was actually interchanged, please correct me. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:41:07 +0100 From: "John H. Wright" Subject: [PRR] I1 tenders. Content-Length: 1412 Following the discussion on tenders seems to confirm what I've suspected.....if you model in the 1940s like me, you don't want to put a big tender behind an I1. Just to be sure I've spent this afternoon scouring my books and fast forwarding through videos and I can't find an I1 that has a big tender (other than in the 1950s) apart from a 1943 shot in Pennsy Steam A to T, I think, that shows 4331 at Cleveland, OH coupled to a tender from a N & W Y3. Am I right in thinking that the I1s that ran with big tenders got them from locos that had been withdrawn ( M1/M1a/J1/Q2)? When I first started modelling the Pennsy in 1993 I bought a Bowser I1 and disgarded its twelve wheel tender as I felt it wasn't correct for the period, even with the limited info I had then. I'd love to be wrong about this, however, because I substituted the object that Bowser passes off as a K4 tender and it looks dreadful. Anyone got a confirmed shot of an I1 in the 1940s with a long tender? Regards -- John H. Wright Washington Tyne & Wear England ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:14:21 -0700 From: Craig Bowman Subject: [PRR] 3-rail vs. 2-rail pipe fence Content-Length: 768 Does anyone know why 2-rail pipe fence was used in some locations while 3-rail was used inother locations? Was there any formal policy or other guidelines regarding the use of 2 versus 3 rails? My GUESS is that 3 rails would tend to be used around station areas where relatively greater control of access to the tracks was an issue. Does anyone have any real information about this? Craig Bowman ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:58:55 -0500 From: "Laird, Bill (GWise)" Subject: [PRR] The $5 Pennsy Video Content-Length: 2865 Date: 04/23/1998 07:56 pm (Thursday) From: Bill Laird To: INET.MAIL:"prr-talk@dsop.com" Subject: The $5 Pennsy Video In the mail today I received a flyer from Pentrex announcing a new railroad video series, the "All Aboard Series". The following is excerpted from the Pentrex flyer: "Travel back in time to the glory days of steam and first-generation diesels. The All Aboard Series takes you from coast to coast to witness the greatest moments of railroading history... The footage used to create the All Aboard Series comes from the archives of the series' producer, Green Frog Productions... In putting together this series, which will be aired on PBS stations across the country, they have selected the very best scenes and subject matter available for your entertainment... Our introductory Special allows you to sample Volume I - an hour of Santa Fe and Pennsy action - at the unbelievably low price of just $ 4.95... Volume I is based on the films of noted rail photographer Emery Gulash, Vol. I delivers a nonstop parade of famous locations, trains, and equipment on the Santa Fe and Pennsy railroads from 1952 to 1980." Descriptions of the Pennsy material in Volume I include Tunnel Hill, Hollidaysburg, Hourseshoe Curve, Enola Yard, Conway Yard, Centipedes, Sharks, E and F units, GP9's, SD-40's, RS3's, C636's, GG1's, named trains "Broadway Limited", "St. Louisan", "PA Limited", "Juniata", "Admiral", "Sprirt of St. Louis", "Ft. Pitt", "Colonial" and more. This sounds like material taken from the Green Frog video on The Pennsy released three or four years ago. With the long list of Pennsy material in one half of a one hour video (remember the Santa Fe takes up the other half) I expect each shot to be very brief. The Green Frog video is good and even if it is a rehash of that material, I for one, will send in my $ 4.95 (plus $ 4 s&h) on the off chance that it contains some material not in the original Green Frog video. There is absolutely no mention in the flyer that this is one of those sign up for the series and get the first video at a low price. The Vol. I offer apparently stands on its own. I checked the Pentrex web site (www.pentrex.com) this afternoon and there is no mention of this new series or the $ 4.95 Vol. I offer. Pentrex can be contacted for orders at (800) 950-9333. I will be watching the PBS schedule over the next several months for the "All Aboard Series" to air. Bill Laird Houston, Texas ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:27:03 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] The $5 Pennsy Video Content-Length: 1232 In a message dated 98-04-23 15:01:49 EDT, William Laird writes : << This sounds like material taken from the Green Frog video on The Pennsy released three or four years ago. >> The All Aboard series has been airing for months here on the second public television station. I have filled three video tapes with material (I record at standard speed for quality purposes) . It is all previously issued tapes of Gulash,etc. I don;'t remember seeing any PRR material over and above the Green Frog release. Lately heavy on narrow gauge. But Sante Fe, Norfolk & Western, Rock Island, others as well. And in addition to the D&RGW, the EBT video was great. Don't miss it, SPFs. It is great for a Pennsy fan to pick up great video of other railroads --can't afford to buy all of them since my Pennsy collection in itself takes a lot of money. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 98 15:49:43 CST Subject: Re: [PRR] 3-rail vs. 2-rail pipe fence Content-Length: 1944 Hi, all, >Does anyone know why 2-rail pipe fence was >used in some locations while 3-rail was used >inother locations? Was there any formal policy >or other guidelines regarding the use of 2 versus >3 rails? > >My GUESS is that 3 rails would tend to be used >around station areas where relatively greater >control of access to the tracks was an issue. I don't know if there was an official policy but from looking at lots of photos, my subjective impression is that the 2-pipe fencing was by far the most common (it's on Rockville Bridge, for example, and lines many viaducts, etc.). When the brass model of the 3-rail fencing was available, I recall that it had some kind ograting hanging from the bottom pipe whose job was to protect people from small debris thrown by passing trains. This suggests that the 3-rail was most common on areas with heavy pedestrian traffic (station platform backs and ends, etc.). I also seem to recall that there was a drawing of these two types of fences in one of the repro's of a PRR plan book. The brief data with the drawings might provide additional clues. By the way, anyone know where there's a friendly scrap dealer with some of this fencing for sale? I'd sure like to get my hands on a few of the vertical columns. I seem to recall seeing some in the Kovalcik Salvage yard in Lewistown, PA a few years ago but that's about 500 miles to far east for a quick visit. PRR forever! Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Trains Unlimited (was Re: [PRR] The $5 Pennsy Video) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 98 15:48:17 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1145 On 4/23/98 3:27 PM, Bobspf (Bobspf@aol.com) wrote: >The All Aboard series has been airing for months here on the second public >television station. Anyone now if the "Trains Unlimited" series was renewed for more episodes? I know the initial run was 13 or so episodes, of which I missed only two, and taped the wrong channel for a third! I thought that series, which is still re-running on The History Channel, was very good. Our list's own Dan Cupper made a few appearances! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale: http://prr.dsop.com/layout/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Videos & Raw Footage Date: Thu, 23 Apr 98 15:50:21 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 950 Anyone know of any other video vendors that have unpublished footage? Brad, what about Digital Image Works? Are there more videos in the pipeline? I see your "Pennsy Steam & Electric II" never made it to your web site. I think it was so much better than "I". Any more footage in the closet? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale: http://prr.dsop.com/layout/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:08:25 -0500 From: Sample Subject: [PRR] Model Pulling Power Content-Length: 1614 Hi Guys Not being able to afford some of the fancy road power, I have a question. How many cars would a good pulling Athern or Atlas engine pull on a level grade. I have one F7A that will pull 38 coal cars with one ounce of weight added to each car plus coal load. The engine weight is 16.25 ounce. Is this good or bad? The Atlas RS-3 will pull more like 47 cars and at slower speed. Does this sound like a correct amount? The engine weight is 13 ounce. Are there any new tips that I should know on how to improve performance. Of course I know that I could double head the motive power but one always seems to pull better than the other. I put the best pulling in the lead with the idea that the couples between the engines will stay tight. Any ideas about this from the group. Also my F7A makes a low growing noise at low speed. Could this be a problem or is it fair to realize that a diesel would make a lot of noise when working hard........ Eric Sample janeric@infocom.net Ps I used my computer to shrink down the engin numbers to a size that will fit the order board. On Word you can enter small print that the program shows you...... Pss Hello Lines West Crew....... Are you all ready for the race yet? ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Paintloco Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:28:28 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] I1 tenders. Content-Length: 980 John, Your PRR I1 tender research confirms what I found- few if any long tanks behind I1's until about 1950. Bowser provides no alternatives. I did once research using the old Varney 32' tender as the basis for the long sought after 90f82 all 2-10-0's were built with, except for the prototype, I think. The overall dimensions are close and it is available in plastic from late '50's production of Old Ladies and Casey Jones engines or in metal from Bowser today. I modified one and it was semi-successful and much better than anything from Bowser. At least its a start..... Don Murphy Westside Locomotive Works ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:20:17 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: [PRR] Re: Trains Unlimited Content-Length: 686 > > Anyone now if the "Trains Unlimited" series was renewed for more episodes? Greetings to Jerry and the list. A few weeks ago, the production company that is handling the series called on me to appear in another one -- of all things, it was about New York Central. Dan Dan Cupper cupper@ibm.net John 10:10 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RTSILLER Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:07:52 EDT Subject: Re: Trains Unlimited (was Re: [PRR] The $5 Pennsy Video) Content-Length: 1379 It appears the new set of programs started two weeks ago. I was able to catch the show on Streamlined Passenger Service and caught a nice segment on the "Broadway Limited". I'm sure it will be repeated again soon. An entire show will be dedicated to Penn Station. The following is from the History Channel web site and the program will air May 4th at 10:00 PM EDT, May 5th at 2:00 AM EDT and May 10th at 11:00 AM EDT. "Penn Station: Manhattan Gateway. At the turn of the century, the richest, most powerful rail company, the Pennsylvania Railroad, built the largest monument a corporation ever built to itself. Manhattan's Penn Station had a vaulted hall with masonry derived from the Hermae of Rome. Tragically torn down in 1965, in its 50 years it symbolized U.S. railroading's grandeur. " I'll have my VCR set. Rick Siller In a message dated 4/23/98 4:02:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jerry@dsop.com writes: << Anyone now if the "Trains Unlimited" series was renewed for more episodes? >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Jim Hudson" Subject: [PRR] PRR 1223 Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:56:16 -0400 Content-Length: 1089 Do any listers out there remember what the condition of 1223 was on retirement a few years back? (For those of you unfamiliar with her, the 1223 is a D16sb 4-4-0 American loco who served the first half of her life working on Pennsy branches on the Delmarva Peninsula, and the second half hauling tourists on the Strasburg. She is owned by the Pennsy Museum in Strasburg. The D16sb was the ultimate in 4-4-0 loco design, and the 1223 was one heck of a machine, IMHO.) I seem to recall she was sidelined because of some type of firebox problems. Are the problems on such a scale that it would make her an unlikely candidate for ever running again? While we're on the topic, why was the 7002 retired, too? Thanks! Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 19:10:16 EDT Subject: [PRR] Pennsylvania Railroad Divisions Content-Length: 513 Could someone post a list of the division in Pennsylvania. I am trying to accumulate a complete set of Employee Time-Tables for the state. Thanks Harold ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 19:55:21 EDT Subject: [PRR] Middle Division Locomotives? Content-Length: 777 The 1944 Middle Division Employees Time-Table shows 43 daily passenger trains westward and 32 eastward. Also, 29 daily westward freight and 42 eastward. It is interesting passenger and freight traffic was heavier in opposite directions. Do you suppose they ran the engines light back to the other end of the division or attached them to to other trains as extra motive power? Harold Modeling the Middle Division ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 19:44:14 -0700 From: Roger Elliott Subject: [PRR] Doodlebugs on PRR? Content-Length: 609 Hello! I just received 2 Bachman N-scale Doodlebugs which run really nice and have good detail. I would like to find out if PRR or maybe one of its many branchlines ran them? If so, how should they be painted and decaled? Thanks, Roger Elliott ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JDPanza Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 23:12:43 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] A Conemaugh Division question Content-Length: 1313 In a message dated 98-04-23 07:31:57 EDT, wb3iqe@rocketmail.com wrote regarding name of the line from Kiski Junction down the east bank of the Allegheny to Pittsburgh (Strip District) had become part of the Conemaugh Division. The CT1000 gives no name for that line, but it seems unlikely that the Conemaugh Division would have 2 Main Lines. (Although with no Main Line in the Tyrone Division, someone would have to have 2 to keep the average up.) What did the Pennsylvania Railroad call that line?>> Pennsylvania Railroad System - Central Region - Conemaugh Division ETT No. 8 dated 9/28/24 does give the name of the line, only that it is designated North/South (vs. East/West) for the Conemaugh/former West Penn mainline. PRR Central Region Conemaugh Division ETT No. 14 dated 9/24/50 lists the former Allegheny Valley line as the "Main Line - Valley". The 9/24/50 ETT covered the line from Pittsburgh to Bridge (Oil City). ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 23:27:55 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] 3-rail vs. 2-rail pipe fence Content-Length: 562 Craig and All, Let's not discount the fact that local building codes may have dictated their uses. Even as big as Pennsy was that darn building inspector could have unwilling to back down. Greg Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 00:52:46 -0800 From: Ron Dugas Subject: Re: [PRR] 3-rail vs. 2-rail pipe fence Content-Length: 1106 George wrote: > I also seem to recall that there was a drawing of these two types of > fences in one of the repro's of a PRR plan book. The book is the "57 Plans" book by Hal Smith. Page 13. Drawing shows mesh panels hanging from bottom pipe of both styles. Note states: "Wire mesh panels only to be used when necessary to protect persons below from falling material. Requisition to specify when mesh panels are desired." Info from drawing: Wire mesh described as: No.10 wire 1" square diamond mesh in 3/4" channel frame,-Galvanized. Top pipe=1.5" dia., others= 1.25" dia. 5" expansion sleeve every 200' on pipes. Railings painted black. (not clear re: mesh panels). No info on ends, corners, etc.. Hope this helps, Ron. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 24 Apr 1998 07:05:15 -0400 From: "Gilleran, Brian " Subject: [PRR] Dumb Modeling question #1... Content-Length: 893 Could anyone out there tell me why it is that in this (wonderful) new age of super-detailed plastic diesel locomotive models (P2K, Kato, Stewart, etc.) that the most obvious detail specific to PRR diesels, the trainphone antenna system, is left off? With interchangeable pilots, dynamic brakes/non-dynamics, special winterization hatches for each roadname, etc., why won't the manufacturers include the antennas on their PRR offerings? Or am I just lazy? Thanks, Brian Gilleran No E44s at VIRGINIA tower...still waiting. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Liberty" Subject: Re: [PRR] Dumb Modeling question #1... Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 07:27:30 -0400 Content-Length: 2057 COST. Brian, that is most likely the reason. The manufacturers figure that you and I will buy 'this' locomotive, and if in Pennsy colors, even without this particular component, so why spend the extra money on tooling ? The relatively small (depends on your point of view) amount of purchases of loco 'x' in Pennsy markings, doesn't justify the extra expense. We will be including such parts in our loco/caboose/tender kits or on/with our factory builts ! I agree that such hardware is essential !! Joe Zappa, Liberty Model Productions ---------- > From: Gilleran, Brian > To: IPM Return requested > Subject: [PRR] Dumb Modeling question #1... > Date: Friday, April 24, 1998 7:05 AM > > Could anyone out there tell me why it is that in this > (wonderful) new age of super-detailed plastic diesel > locomotive models (P2K, Kato, Stewart, etc.) that the > most obvious detail specific to PRR diesels, the > trainphone antenna system, is left off? With > interchangeable pilots, dynamic brakes/non-dynamics, > special winterization hatches for each roadname, etc., > why won't the manufacturers include the antennas on > their PRR offerings? > > Or am I just lazy? > > Thanks, > Brian Gilleran > > No E44s at VIRGINIA tower...still waiting. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 98 08:28:04 -0400 Content-Length: 1371 Andrew, The group is for evryone with a keystone tatooed on their heart. I don't know the date offhand (I'm in my ofice, but the reason was that the poppets were a nightmare to maintain and the PRR was experimenting with everything they could think of to save the program. Curiously, with Walshaerts gear, the T-1 became exactly the engine which Baldwin proposed to the PRR many years earlier. regards Andy Miller ========= I am not quite sure but I think this may be just for modellers this service but I'll ask anyway... Where & why was P.R.R T1 No. 5547 converted to Walschaerts gear? Any comments appreciated! Regards, Andrew - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:16:37 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: Re: [PRR] Prototype PRR interchanges Content-Length: 1329 Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:15:27 -0400 To: mxb13@psu.edu (Michael Bezilla) From: Drew McGhee Subject: Re: [PRR] Prototype PRR interchanges Greetings to Mike and the group, Mike is correct. RICH wasn't an interchange point where individual cars were exchanged between the PRR and NYC. It was, as Mike indicates, where the NYC entered and exited the PRR. Hey it was a way to appease those water level types who I'm sure lurk on in this group! Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA At 10:41 AM 4/23/98 -0400, you wrote: >>Here are a couple of former PRR Harrisburg-Buffalo Line interchanges that >>come quickly to mind. At RICH (McElhattan, PA) the NYC interchanged entire >>NYC trains with the PRR. > >I don't think RICH was an interchange point, it was simply the place where >water level route trains got on/got off PRR iron for the trip to/from >Keating Jct. Drew, if I'm wrong here, and traffic was actually >interchanged, please correct me. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 09:20:08 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 Content-Length: 1935 In a message dated 98-04-24 08:38:01 EDT, Andy Miller writes : << The group is for evryone with a keystone tatooed on their heart. I don't know the date offhand (I'm in my ofice, but the reason was that the poppets were a nightmare to maintain and the PRR was experimenting with everything they could think of to save the program. Curiously, with Walshaerts gear, the T-1 became exactly the engine which Baldwin proposed to the PRR many years earlier. >> The project might have been successful,but I believe the diesel invasion stopped any further efforts, once Pennsy realized they weren't going to lose the coal traffic by the decision. As a student of management and organizations, I find myself today questioning a lot of conventional wisdom (just am doing the same thing at our club as reported on LDSIG talk list). We always hear that the duplexes were a failure due to some design flaw. I submit that they might have all been superior to M1, K4, etc, but the oldtimers who resist change and exist in every organization (e.g., "those darned computers will never be able to do this job") had their way at the Pennsy and that is why double-headed K4s (twice as many crews and no learning curve) lasted well into the diesel age and newer T1s were scrapped instead of solving their problems. OTOH, as long as I started this, the decision to go with duplexes rather than articulateds (which might have been useful in the mountains) for freight may have been a Lines West versus Lines East thing. Let the flames begin! :-) Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 09:25:17 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] here's another narrow gauge book for the Panhandle Content-Length: 2348 Steve, It's title is misleading. While Narrow Guage in Ohio is about a line in Southwest Ohio that eventaully became part of the Penmnsylvania Railroad, The Cincinnati, Lebanon & Northern Railway Co. was included in the disjointed Pennsylvania, Ohio & Detroit Railroad Co, not the much bigger PCC&StL. Operationally, the CL&N was a secondary track in the Cincinnati Division that ran from downtown Cincinnati to downtown Dayton via Lebanon. Today the Indiana & Rail system operates on what was the CL&N from Norwood to Blue Ash on Cincinnati's north side and from Monroe through Lebanon to Middletown in Warren and Butler coutnies. Conrail uses about two miles as a spur to service a GM Delphi (Delco) Division plant in Kettering, a suburb of Dayton. The Cincinnati, Lebanon & Northern Ry. was built in the 1870s as a narrow- guage suburban railroad serving Cincinnati's northern fringe but it was standard-gauged in the 1890s before its purchase by the PRR. The PRR's biggest customer on this line was the National Cash Register Co. It ran through NCR's massive Dayton works less than a mile south of its northern terminus at Dayton's Union Terminal Association trackage in Dayton's central business district. An extremely sharp curve at this interchange, located literally on a levee along the east bank of the Great MIami River effectikvely limited motive power on the line to H-10 2-8-0s or smaller. A branch, the Middletown & Cincinnati, serviced the giant ARMCO Steel Co. plant in Middletown, Ohio. The CL&N biggest claim to fame is that its route along the divide separating the valleys of the Great Miami and Little Miami rivers allowed it to be a city's lifeline during major floods, Cincinnati in 1884 and during the 1936-37 Great Ohio River Flood and for Dayton during the March 1913 flood in the Norhtern Ohio Valley which was the only event to disrupt the Pennsy's New York-Chicago service (the only two days misssed between 1869 and 1968). Tom V. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:36:37 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] here's another narrow gauge book for the Panhandle Content-Length: 1117 LINESWEST wrote: the March 1913 flood in the > Norhtern Ohio Valley which was the only event to disrupt the Pennsy's New > York-Chicago service (the only two days missed between 1869 and 1968). > > Tom V. Greetings to Tom and the group: I wonder about this -- during the March 1936 flood, the Middle Division was in ruins, particularly between Tyrone and Huntingdon, Pa., and the line was out of service certainly for more than two days. During that period I believe PRR trains detoured (over the NYC?) -- I think that's alluded to in the 1936 Fortune article. Also, labor disruptions (strikes) also occurred on occasion and these certainly halted all traffic on the PRR. FWIW Dan Dan Cupper cupper@ibm.net Romans 10:9-10 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:29:31 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Dumb Modeling question #1... Content-Length: 1348 In a message dated 98-04-24 07:11:16 EDT, Brian.Gilleran@fhwa.dot.gov writes: << Could anyone out there tell me why it is that in this (wonderful) new age of super-detailed plastic diesel locomotive models (P2K, Kato, Stewart, etc.) that the most obvious detail specific to PRR diesels, the trainphone antenna system, is left off? With interchangeable pilots, dynamic brakes/non-dynamics, special winterization hatches for each roadname, etc., why won't the manufacturers include the antennas on their PRR offerings? >> Because the trainphones are unique to the PRR and the cost of dies etc. is not worth it for manufactures. This is especially true when the supports are readily available as a detail part from Bowser. What they could do that would help is mark the inside of the shell where the supports should be mounted for the particular model. This would be a small expense when cutting the dies and have no negative impact upon any other road. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Dumb Modeling question #1... Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:43:44 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 948 On 24 Apr, "Gilleran, Brian " wrote: > [ ... ] > why won't the manufacturers include the antennas on > their PRR offerings? I would guess because they're little fiddley things, liable to be damaged in handling, would require special packaging in the box, and would take special care to paint right (gotta get the underside). Then again, maybe they know that people like Gold Medal (in N Scale, at least) can make money off such things and so it isn't worth their time and effort for the proud few who would care about them. > Or am I just lazy? Well, maybe... :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 98 13:12:19 CST Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 Content-Length: 1964 HI, all, >The project might have been successful,but I believe the diesel invasion >stopped any further efforts, once Pennsy realized they weren't going to lose >the coal traffic by the decision. >As a student of management and organizations, I find myself today questioning >a lot of conventional wisdom (just am doing the same thing at our club as >reported on LDSIG talk list). >We always hear that the duplexes were a failure due to some design flaw. >I submit that they might have all been superior to M1, K4, etc, but the >oldtimers who resist change and exist in every organization (e.g., "those >darned computers will never be able to do this job") had their way at the >Pennsy and that is why double-headed K4s (twice as many crews and no learning >curve) lasted well into the diesel age and newer T1s were scrapped instead >of solving their problems. I've always understood that part of the reason for the continuation of double- headed K4s was that the PRR had so many of the darned things with little to do in the east after electrification. Do you junk perfectly mechanically sound engines in favor of new designs? Or continue with what you have? I also sense, though, that the PRR management, esp. in the engineering areas, never lacked in complete self- confidence in the superiority of the PRR way of doing things, and the designs they turned out like the K4, I1, and M1s, were conservative even by the standards of their day. PRR forever! Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:36:19 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Hunter" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 1223 Content-Length: 1879 Jim- As I understood the problem, some steel sheet in the firebox had become too thin and would have to be replaced, but the MUseum wouldn't permit that replacement because the new steel wouldn't be a Pennsy part and would make the locomotive less than 100% Pennsy. Personally, I'd rather see her back on Strasburg rails. jIM On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, W. Jim Hudson wrote: > Do any listers out there remember what the condition of 1223 was on > retirement a few years back? (For those of you unfamiliar with her, the > 1223 is a D16sb 4-4-0 American loco who served the first half of her life > working on Pennsy branches on the Delmarva Peninsula, and the second half > hauling tourists on the Strasburg. She is owned by the Pennsy Museum in > Strasburg. The D16sb was the ultimate in 4-4-0 loco design, and the 1223 > was one heck of a machine, IMHO.) I seem to recall she was sidelined > because of some type of firebox problems. Are the problems on such a scale > that it would make her an unlikely candidate for ever running again? While > we're on the topic, why was the 7002 retired, too? > > Thanks! > Jim > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:20:01 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] PRR] 1936 floods Was: here's another narrow gauge book for Content-Length: 2146 ---Dan Cupper wrote: > > LINESWEST wrote: > the March 1913 flood in the > > Norhtern Ohio Valley which was the only event to disrupt the Pennsy's New > > York-Chicago service (the only two days missed between 1869 and 1968). > > > > Tom V. > > > Greetings to Tom and the group: > > I wonder about this -- during the March 1936 flood, the Middle Division > was in ruins, particularly between Tyrone and Huntingdon, Pa., and the > line was out of service certainly for more than two days. During that > period I believe PRR trains detoured (over the NYC?) -- I think that's > alluded to in the 1936 Fortune article. Assuming the damage didn't get quite to Tyrone, I think there would be 2 routes. Both start at Harrisburg by going upstream along the Susquehanna, then along the West Branch to Lock Haven. One route follows the Bald Eagle Valley Branch to Tyrone. The other continues past Lock Haven, to Keating, up the Sinnemahoning to Driftwood and thence takes the Low Grade Branch to the Allegheny river, then to Pittsburgh. Granted, that's only two tracks total to replace 4, but better than none. Don't know if they did it that way, but they could have. Come to think of it though, the same floods may have done a number on tracks along the Susquehanna. I recall seeing a plaque marking the 1936 flood level on a wall in Clearfield several blocks from the West Branch. Also, in the dim past, PRR owned a big piece of B&O. Would PRR have had any pull with B&O in 1936, such that the B&O main could have been used as a detour? Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:36:29 -0500 From: "Laird, Bill (GWise)" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 1223 -Reply Content-Length: 1600 Date: 04/24/1998 08:34 pm (Friday) From: Bill Laird To: INET.MAIL("PRR-Talk@dsop.com") Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 1223 -Reply It is a good thing the aviation community doesn't have this mindset. All of the WWII vintage aircraft you see still flying at airshows have been extensively rebuilt, in many cases with more modern, and certainly not original, components. Many of these aircraft are owned by museums but are kept in flying condition because that is what they did that made them great. I believe Railroad museums should take a similar attitude. Seeing, hearing, and smelling a working locomotive far more enhances the experience than just looking at a stationary exhibit. Anyway, that's one SPF's opinion. Bill Laird Houston, Texas -------------------------- original message follows -------------------------- >>> PRR-Talk@dsop.com 04/24/98 01:36pm wrote>>> >>>Jim- As I understood the problem, some steel sheet in the firebox had become too thin and would have to be replaced, but the MUseum wouldn't permit that replacement because the new steel wouldn't be a Pennsy part and would make the locomotive less than 100% Pennsy. Personally, I'd rather see her back on Strasburg rails. jIM <<< ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:53:55 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Long distance tenders/ 6-axles or 8-axles? Content-Length: 1614 In a message dated 98-04-22 22:22:00 EDT, ELM2 writes: << The J-1s received the 210-F-84 (8-axle) tender also with scoops & recessed lights on the back. >> At least one J1, pictured in the video PRR Power, Vol. 2, had a large backup light mounted on the tender deck next to the doghouse. And yes, only a handful of I1s had 6 axle tenders prior to the 50's, most hand-me-downs or one-of a-kinds. My problem with the 16 wheel tenders (I have an extra brass shell and trucks--only need to build a frame) is that they are tough on my proposed home layout. More important, since I will be modeling a branch and even at the club I would like to use it for heavy yard switching, I prefer the 90F82. That is on my wish list I submitted to Joe Zappa. In the meantime, as I indicated to someone offline, Bowser I1 I picked up on consignment to finish had been started with an L1 tender modified . That is prototypically correct for at least one I1, but a little late for my era modeled. I will look the other way if you will until we (finally) get a model of perhaps the largest class of tenders ever built in one lot by any railroad--the 90F82. Bob (happy I found a spot to put another 4 ounces of lead in my M1 over the drivers) Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:15:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR] 1936 floods Was: here's another narrow gauge book Content-Length: 1138 > Also, in the dim past, PRR owned a big piece of B&O. > Would PRR have had any pull with B&O in 1936, such > that the B&O main could have been used as a detour? IIRC they divested before 1910. I can check details because as I recall the reference I saw was in the Pittsburgh Section American Society of Civil Engineers book on the South Pennsylvania Railroad, in the section where they detailed the usage of right-of-way and the Quemahoning tunnel around 1906 by the Pittsbrugh Westmoreland and Somerset Railroad; The B&O attempted to get the PW&S to desist in constructing the line to Somerset but as they were at the time substantially owned by the PRR the PW&S was instructed to, and did, ignore the interference, at least if this account is to be believed. -D ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] fwd: Enola origin Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:54:36 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 1624 Snipped from a NS press release: ------- Forwarded Message April 24, 1998 Norfolk Southern Public Relations [ ... big snip ... ] Conrail Heritage The derivation of the name Enola, Conrail's yard on the west bank of the Susquehanna opposite Harrisburg, Pa., has attracted considerable notoriety over the years. In 1936, FORTUNE magazine noted "the name is alone spelled backwards." True, but other reports published as early as 1937 are cited as official explanation of how Enola got its name. The Northern Central Railway, a subsidiary of the Pennsylvania Railroad, a Conrail predecessor line, purchased the site for a flagstop in 1888 from Wesley G. Miller and gave Miller the privilege of naming the station. After two unsuccessful tries ("Wesley" and "Longsdorf," his wife's maiden name, were already station names), he submitted the name of his four-year-old daughter, Enola. The daughter had been named after her mother's cousin Enola, whose parents were enchanted by the name given a character in a 19th Century Isaac Kelso novel, The Danger of Darkness. The railroad accepted the name, and when the Pennsy later purchased 100 acres from Miller to build a yard, the flagstop's name carried over. ------- End of Forwarded Message ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Huber25 Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:21:06 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re:PRR #1223 Content-Length: 1118 Personally the "non-Pennsy steel in the firebox" sounds like a lame excuse. I think almost everyone would rather see her pulling trains at Strasburg than sitting dead at the museum. If someone built a brand new D-16sb using no Pennsy parts it would still be worth the trip from here in Texas to see....100% non-Pennsy parts and all! She's a grand engine and always worth seeing and hearing. Bill's comments about the aircraft fraternity ring true. We should be a little more open minded about this. People seem to flock to see the Chineese steamers so why would a small piece of steel in a firebox be so offensive? BTW? Did they use "real" PRR paint when they repainted all the stuff at the Museum? Probably not....now THAT''s offensive! LOL!! Roger ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 20:07:20 -0400 From: "R. Vogel" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re:PRR #1223 Content-Length: 665 > "non-Pennsy steel"...... I would think that original parts which do not work could be removed and stored in case anyone needed to study them in the future. No need to leave them in place. If the GG1 project is successful it won't be with original untouched Pennsy transformers. -Bob Vogel ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 20:40:32 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] here's another narrow gauge book for the Panhandle Content-Length: 2533 To Dan and all: My journalism train instilled in me the caution that "only" and "never" are very had to defend. My source for the statement that the March 1913 Flood was the only event to totaloly disrupt traffic the New York-Chicago lines are PRR-pulished books on the company response to the floods that are in the histroical collection of the Dayton-Montgomery County Libarary. (Dan, one was written by the same guy whio wrote the book on the "1936" Ohio River flood that you have access to. In the eastern Ohio Valley this event is known as the 1936 flood because it occurred at the end of December 1936. In Cincinnati it's known as the 1937 flood because it occurred the first week of January 1937). The 1913 fllod was caused by a combination of an intense low pressure system which stalled oover the Ohio-Indiana border just north of Dayton which poured rain onto a heavier than normal snowpack atop frozen ground. Unexpected, the floods occured after about three days of intense rain flowing a sudden thaw. While the Ohio River did not flood (the storm center moved north into Ontario and Quebec, following a track similar to but just west of that followed by the Jan. 28, 1978 Blizzard). While there was flooding in the Mahoning and Cuyahoga valleys, Pennsylvania was not affected. Also flooded were the valleys of the Muskingum, Scioto, Olentangy, Little Miami, Great Miami, Auglaize, Maumee, Whitewater, White and Wabash rivers. That's ever major river valley from Pennsylvania to Illinois. If the 1936 flood disrupted all Pennsy traffic through Pennsylvania then my absolute statement could be in error. However, since the Mahoning and Cuyahoga valleys were not affected, it is possible that all westbound traffic was routed north to the NYC's water level route along thge south shore of Lake Erie. This alternative not available in 1913 because of highvwater in those valleys and along the Maumee and its tributaries in western Ohio and Eastern Indiana. Only the PFtW&CRW Co. was opened after two days. The Panhandle was out of service for nearly two weeks before limited through traffic to Chicago was reestablished. Tom V. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Tod Engine Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 21:27:18 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re:PRR #1223/ GG-1 Restoration Content-Length: 2467 In a message dated 98-04-24 20:05:26 EDT, you write: > > "non-Pennsy steel"...... > > I would think that original parts which do not work could be removed and > stored > in case anyone needed to study them in the future. No need to leave them in > place. > > If the GG1 project is successful it won't be with original untouched Pennsy > transformers. > That is the reason that I don't want to mess with the 4800 or 4935. Both units are intact with original transformers & wiring, and should be preserved and treated as artifacts. However, there are 14 more Gs out there, some at places they really have no reason to be there, other than the fact that they were cheap to buy and some of the members liked and wanted one. I've been meaning to call the Leatherstocking Chap. NRHS about the two GG-1s at Cooperstown Jct., NY. One is the 4937 and the other 4909 (I think). The 4934 has an interesting story behind its preservation. A letter to the editor in L&RP Sept.- Oct. 1987 issue tells that the unit was purchased in 1982 by Historic Red Clay Valley of Wilmington, Delaware from Amtrak. Apparently there were nine Amtrak Gs that had been shopped and held as reserve power for the Northeast Corridor. The 4934 was in the best shape of all those there. An interesting blurb also states that its transformer was drained of PCBs and flushed, so it may yet be still in the locomotive. Interestingly enough, on page 52 of the same issue is an ad announcing that 4934 was for sale for $20,000. It was sold to Leatherstocking. In the May-June 1990 issue is an article about the Wilmington & Western, which is affiliated with HRCV. In it was mentioned that 4934 was purchased by the Leatherstocking Chapter for "planned operation in New York state." If that was their plan, it would explain why they have two Gs, one for operation and the other for parts. I've been meaning to call the president of their chapter and ask about the 4934, but haven't had a chance this week. I wonder how serious their operation plans are, or were? Rick Rowlands ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 22:50:10 -0400 From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 1223 Content-Length: 2577 Hi Jim. Sorry for the delay in response. I had to look a few things up. One of the main reasons that the SRR gave up the 1223, it was too light for the job. In the year 1985, the SRR carried 362,382 passengers. 1985 also saw the only two mainline outings of the 1223 and 7002 - June and August. Just a personal note, they were thrilling! In 1979 (read1980) the SRR entered into a five year lease with the Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission, to operate the 1223. The 7002 on the other hand had plenty of power. Its trouble wasn't of power but of speed, with a max. speed of about 25, the 7002 never hit its horsepower curve. Both engines had many thousands of miles on them and were due for heavy class inspections and repairs. The SRR than made a decision to purchase a locomotive of its own that was more suited to its needs, i.e.. slow speed, moderate weight with good adhesion characteristics, enter the 475 in 1992. I think I remember that the 1223 is in good shape, while the 7002 needs some heavy work. Hope it helped. cos W. Jim Hudson wrote: > Do any listers out there remember what the condition of 1223 was on > retirement a few years back? (For those of you unfamiliar with her, the > 1223 is a D16sb 4-4-0 American loco who served the first half of her life > working on Pennsy branches on the Delmarva Peninsula, and the second half > hauling tourists on the Strasburg. She is owned by the Pennsy Museum in > Strasburg. The D16sb was the ultimate in 4-4-0 loco design, and the 1223 > was one heck of a machine, IMHO.) I seem to recall she was sidelined > because of some type of firebox problems. Are the problems on such a scale > that it would make her an unlikely candidate for ever running again? While > we're on the topic, why was the 7002 retired, too? > > Thanks! > Jim > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 22:54:58 -0400 From: Chris Brandt Subject: [PRR] GG1 Restoration Content-Length: 1740 OK, perhaps I've consumed one too many Molsons, but I've been reading this thread with cautious optimism. Here's a what-if for y'all. Build a diesel power car which will deliver 11,000V at the necessary current through a pole trolley and drag that sucker right behind said GG1 so she can suck up that juice and go just about anywhere. Here is an ascii rendering (I'm borrowing Mr. Smith's signature G) _ _____________ / \ / \ \ \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ _\__00______________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | D I E S E L P O W E R C A R | |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________|_ | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 Say I'm crazy. Say I'm half drunk. (You would be correct on both assumptions.) I think I'll get some sleep now. -- Chris _________ __\ _ /__ --------\ | ) /----------------------------------------------- ---------\ |}/|} /---------Chris Brandt--------------------------- ----------\ |\ |\ /----------mailto:cobrandt@eclipse.net------------ -----------\ | /-----------http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/------ ------------\___/--------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 21:28:26 -0700 From: Roger Elliott Subject: [PRR] Doodlebugs on PRR? Content-Length: 613 Hello! I just received 2 Bachman N-scale Doodlebugs which run really nice and have good detail. I would like to find out if PRR or maybe one of its many branchlines ran them? If so, how should they be painted and decaled? Thanks, Roger Elliott ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Knepper" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 1223 Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 04:33:55 -0500 Content-Length: 3955 To all, According to Mr Lin Modenger of the SRR ( Chief of Motive Power), The back heads of the 1223 and 7002 are below the "PRR" spec's for operation. And since they were due for lease renewal, and replacing the back head is a very costly job, it was decided to find other power hence 475. If you notice ....SRR only runs perfect equipment ! Lin and his crew are the best around......ask the EBT.....they went up there and got the 4th engine to run for them. The museum commission says that the will not spend money the put the engines in running condition......( Stored pretty forever!) BUT AT LEAST WE STILL HAVE THEM . Anybody have a couple of hundred thousand laying around, that the would like to donate ? Bill Knepper ---------- > From: Wayne S. Betty > To: PRR Talk > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 1223 > Date: Friday, April 24, 1998 9:50 PM > > Hi Jim. Sorry for the delay in response. I had to look a few things up. One > of the main reasons that the SRR gave up the 1223, it was too light for the > job. In the year 1985, the SRR carried 362,382 passengers. 1985 also saw the > only two mainline outings of the 1223 and 7002 - June and August. Just a > personal note, they were thrilling! In 1979 (read1980) the SRR entered into a > five year lease with the Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission, to > operate the 1223. The 7002 on the other hand had plenty of power. Its trouble > wasn't of power but of speed, with a max. speed of about 25, the 7002 never > hit its horsepower curve. Both engines had many thousands of miles on them and > were due for heavy class inspections and repairs. The SRR than made a decision > to purchase a locomotive of its own that was more suited to its needs, i.e.. > slow speed, moderate weight with good adhesion characteristics, enter the 475 > in 1992. I think I remember that the 1223 is in good shape, while the 7002 > needs some heavy work. > Hope it helped. > cos > > W. Jim Hudson wrote: > > > Do any listers out there remember what the condition of 1223 was on > > retirement a few years back? (For those of you unfamiliar with her, the > > 1223 is a D16sb 4-4-0 American loco who served the first half of her life > > working on Pennsy branches on the Delmarva Peninsula, and the second half > > hauling tourists on the Strasburg. She is owned by the Pennsy Museum in > > Strasburg. The D16sb was the ultimate in 4-4-0 loco design, and the 1223 > > was one heck of a machine, IMHO.) I seem to recall she was sidelined > > because of some type of firebox problems. Are the problems on such a scale > > that it would make her an unlikely candidate for ever running again? While > > we're on the topic, why was the 7002 retired, too? > > > > Thanks! > > Jim > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:42:20 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Doodlebugs on PRR? Content-Length: 909 Roger, There were quite a few doodlebugs used by the Pennsy. One usually pulling a trailer provided the last Springfield-Cincinnati passenger service over the old Little Miami Railroad. Iys last run was in 1953. Check Deja News for earlier PRR doodle bug posts for infor. PRR used primarily Brill cars, if i remember right. While it looks nice, the Bachman model is a freelance design based upon a EMD design. There is a Pennsy doodlebug on Display at the Ohio Railway Museum in Worthington. I plan to get some shots of it this summer. Tom V. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:53:33 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1 Restoration Content-Length: 1122 Chris Brandt wrote: > > ... Here's a what-if for y'all.> Build a diesel power car which will > deliver 11,000V at the necessary current through a pole trolley and > drag that sucker right behind said GG1 so she can suck up that juice > and go just about anywhere. > Why not generate the power at traction motor voltage and forgo the transformer entirely? I assume :-) the control components are all in the secondary voltage system. You might need to add ballast to make up for the missing transformer weight if it has been removed, but you would be clear of the high voltage AND the PCB problems once and for all if the rest of the carbody is clean. Remember too, you have to make 25 cycle power, whatever the voltage you generate. Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 09:02:49 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: [PRR] P2K E7-B Units in DGLE Content-Length: 822 As information, Centerline Hobbies in Hyannis, Mass, has 2 P2000 dummy E-7 B units in DGLE five-stripe scheme, one tuscan/5 and an undecorated B. The painted units are $39.95, the undec about 34.95. Close to the NMRA convention, if anyone will be in the area. I think some A units and PA's are also available; I didn't look too closely. I just remembered there had been a lot of interest in the B units. Centerline phone is 508-771-1244. Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:34:05 -0400 From: "s.a. mccall" Subject: [PRR] RE:GG1 restoration-different approach Content-Length: 1506 Greetings, All this talk about restoring a GG1 to operating condition has excited some brain cells. 1. Purchase a GG1 which has no transformer and poor electrics. 2. Completely gut the interior, saving the chassis and body, making basically no changes to the exterior. 3. Purchase a good used U36c. 4. Install the U36 engine, generator(60 cycle AC), controls and traction motors in the gutted GG1 body and chassis. 5. Connect the traction motors to the new power plant 5. You will now have a 3600HP GG1 that could go anywhere. With permission of the NS, who will be in control of the old PRR territory, this engine could be used to tour the entire NS system. This would make the engine available to many who never saw the original. I expect to hear only from those who have 200 reasons why it would not work. Also e-mail from those purists who would only have an original. Keep those cards and letters coming in folks that's what gives me those great ratings. Actually I'm about half serious about this......... Sincerely, S.A. McCall HOSAM Franklin, Va. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:54:47 -0700 From: Roger Elliott Subject: Re: [PRR] Doodlebugs on PRR? Content-Length: 1235 LINESWEST wrote: > Roger, > > There were quite a few doodlebugs used by the Pennsy. One usually > pulling a > trailer provided the last Springfield-Cincinnati passenger service > over the > old Little Miami Railroad. Iys last run was in 1953. > Check Deja News for earlier PRR doodle bug posts for infor. PRR used > primarily > Brill cars, if i remember right. While it looks nice, the Bachman > model is a > freelance design based upon a EMD design. > There is a Pennsy doodlebug on Display at the Ohio Railway Museum in > Worthington. I plan to get some shots of it this summer. > > Tom V. Hello Tom, Thanks for the post! Do you think you could scan and e-mail a copy of one of the photos you plan to take this summer? What's the diffo between the brills you mention and the EMD Design? Any net sites with photos of PRR Doodlebugs? Thanks! Roger ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RLA0220@webtv.net (RICHARD ADER) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:19:12 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Warren Pa. Tracks Content-Length: 875 Hi everybody, Does anyone have, or know where I can get a copy of a track diagram, or map of the Northern Division's Warren Pa track arrangement from IRV to OTTS inclusive. [1950's to PC merger time frame] Where did the NYC line through IRV come from? I know it went to Titisville, but from where? Edwin P Alexander's book "On the Main Line" is a good sourse for tower and station photographs but not interlocking and track configurations. I need this info for modeling purposes. Thankyou. Rich ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:37:10 -0800 From: Ron Dugas Subject: Re: [PRR] Doodlebugs on PRR? Content-Length: 1043 Hi All, This doodlebug talk has jump-started my memory. I'm interested in the Pennsy's McKeen cars. Can anyone point me in the direction of info, plans and, especially, pics of these? The only pic I've ever seen of these are one in Alexander's "Pictorial History", plate 142. It shows PRR #4701 of 1910 and is kinda dark so details aren't very visible. I'm planning to build a 1/8th, 7.5" guage scale operating model of one and need pics showing: rivet patterns, details, etc... Plans would be extremely helpful. If not PRR specific, general McKeen plans would help some, though I understand they were mostly cutom-built to purchasers specs. Thanks in advance, Ron. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:02:21 -0400 From: Stan Feldman Subject: Re: [PRR] Doodlebugs on PRR? Content-Length: 1881 Roger Elliott wrote: > > LINESWEST wrote: > > > Roger, > > > > There were quite a few doodlebugs used by the Pennsy. One usually > > pulling a > > trailer provided the last Springfield-Cincinnati passenger service > > over the > > old Little Miami Railroad. Iys last run was in 1953. > > Check Deja News for earlier PRR doodle bug posts for infor. PRR used > > primarily > > Brill cars, if i remember right. While it looks nice, the Bachman > > model is a > > freelance design based upon a EMD design. > > There is a Pennsy doodlebug on Display at the Ohio Railway Museum in > > Worthington. I plan to get some shots of it this summer. > > > > Tom V. > > Hello Tom, > Thanks for the post! Do you think you could scan and e-mail a copy of > one of the photos you plan to take this summer? What's the diffo > between the brills you mention and the EMD Design? > > Any net sites with photos of PRR Doodlebugs? > > Thanks! > Roger > > Roger; I have 3 pictures of ex- PRR Brill Gas Electric Car #4662 at http://www.trainweb.com/railpix/mispix5.html The car is now run by the Wilmington + Western. Stan *********************************************************** STAN'S RAILPIX-- Railroad Photo Gallery ! http://www.trainweb.com/railpix ****************************************************** Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it !! *********************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Tod Engine Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 18:23:29 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] RE:GG1 restoration-different approach Content-Length: 1898 In a message dated 98-04-25 10:44:14 EDT, you write: > All this talk about restoring a GG1 to operating condition has excited > some brain cells. > 1. Purchase a GG1 which has no transformer and poor electrics. > 2. Completely gut the interior, saving the chassis and body, making > basically no changes to the exterior. > 3. Purchase a good used U36c. > 4. Install the U36 engine, generator(60 cycle AC), controls and traction > motors in the gutted GG1 body and chassis. > 5. Connect the traction motors to the new power plant > 5. You will now have a 3600HP GG1 that could go anywhere. > > With permission of the NS, who will be in control of the old PRR > territory, this engine could be used to tour the entire NS system. This > would make the engine available to many who never saw the original. > > I expect to hear only from those who have 200 reasons why it would not > work. > Also e-mail from those purists who would only have an original. > > Keep those cards and letters coming in folks that's what gives me those > great ratings. > > Actually I'm about half serious about this......... Why a U36B? If we're going to do this, at least use EMD parts, which at least won't fail the first time out of the station. :-) Actually, now that you mention this, the idea doesn't sound all that bad. I know the purists would complain and complain, but so what. Theoretically it should work, politically however.... Rick ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:58:28 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Doodlebugs on PRR? Content-Length: 536 I have a 1910 Post Card (retouched and in color) of 4701 at the Bradford, PA Station. I will scan it on Monday and if someone wants to post it to a Web Site let me know. Harold ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 01:20:13 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Doodlebugs on PRR? Content-Length: 607 In a message dated 98-04-25 16:53:57 EDT, Ron writes (re McKeen cars): << Can anyone point me in the direction of info, plans and, especially, pics of these? >> Pennsy Power III and Black Gold-Black Diamonds books each have a photo. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Paintloco Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 07:47:35 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Warren Pa. Tracks Content-Length: 1063 Sir, The NYC track at IRV originates at Dunkirk, NY and ran south through Falconer to Warren. It ran along side US 62 north of Warren. I believe some of the track and most of the roadbed is still visable there. After some street runnung at Warren it ran just south of the PRR Renovo Div tracks to Irv tower. Just east of where Irv stood the NYC branch's bridge still spans a large creek as do the twin PRR spans. The are no more than 100 ft apart.It turned south there through Garland to Titusville, Pa. My NYC Time Table No 20 dated 10/30/66 calls this the Valley Branch. It interchanged with the PRR at Warren where the A&E still uses a small lenght of its track for an industry. Don Murphy ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Michael DiMaio" Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:49:03 -0500 Subject: [PRR] 1`948 Broadway LTD Content-Length: 822 I need some help in determining which champ decals to order (stripping and lettering) for the 1948 broadway limited. I have a kitchen dormitory car which is part of a twin unit diner. help in this mater would be appreciated so i can order it by the 30th thru Jerry. Michael DiMaio, Ph.D. Department of Philosophy Salve Regina University Newport, RI 02920 Michael DiMaio, Ph.D. Department of Philosophy Salve Regina University Newport, RI 02920 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Michael DiMaio" Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 04:12:26 -0500 Subject: [PRR] 1948 broadway LTD Content-Length: 721 I need some help in determining which champ decals to order (stripping and lettering) for the 1948 broadway limited. I have a kitchen dormitory car which is part of a twin unit diner. help in this mater would be appreciated so i can order it by the 30th thru Jerry. Michael DiMaio, Ph.D. Department of Philosophy Salve Regina University Newport, RI 02920 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:32:06 -0400 From: Frank Bagrash Subject: [PRR] Doodlebugs on the PRR Content-Length: 568 An excellent source of Doodlebug pics and McKeen cars in particular is the Keilty book series, such as Interurbans Without Wires and Doodlebugs. I think there is a PRR McKeen car picture in the former. Frank ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:48:06 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] RE:GG1 restoration-different approach Content-Length: 845 As a Lines Wester, the proposal to run the GG1 from onboard or attached diesel generators has some appeal because it would achieve at least half the goal, getting that beautiful Loewy design rolling cross country. However, having lived a few years on the "mainline" in Philly, one thing would be missing, the hum of the traction motors. The sound would be wrong with the diesel generated power drowning that hum out, losing half the appeal IMHO. Bob Zoeller Fox Point, Wisconsin ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:53:24 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Doodlebugs on PRR? Content-Length: 920 In a message dated 98-04-26 01:33:56 EDT, I wrote: << In a message dated 98-04-25 16:53:57 EDT, Ron writes (re McKeen cars): << Can anyone point me in the direction of info, plans and, especially, pics of these? >> Pennsy Power III and Black Gold-Black Diamonds books each have a photo. >> Also Wayner Publications "The Cars of the Pennsylkvania Railroad has a photo which is same as the broadside view in PPIII. PPIII has a 3/4 view and the Black Gold-Black Diamonds photo is same unit 4701), same side (RH), but different photo. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:51:09 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] 1`948 Broadway LTD Content-Length: 1325 In a message dated 98-04-26 10:51:51 EDT, Michael DiMaio: << I need some help in determining which champ decals to order (stripping and lettering) for the 1948 broadway limited. I have a kitchen dormitory car which is part of a twin unit diner. help in this mater would be appreciated so i can order it by the 30th thru Jerry. >> Just completed the two-unit diner, and AMB laser kit "Harbor" lounge car about a month ago. Used Champ PH-82D Champ set for lettering. I used Microscale 87-892 for the stripes, but previous discussion on this site has evoked opinions in favor of Champ stripes, set S-88, for better color. Others have proposed painting the car your preferred deluxe gold color, masking stripes, and then painting tuscan. Suggest you reference the archives. In order, the best scale dimensions for stripes are Microscale, Champ, and masking. The ability to get them straight is probably in reverse order of that. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:57:36 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR doodlebugs Content-Length: 1185 In a message dated 4/26/98 4:41:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rboydrrs@inlink.com writes: << Tom: could you give me some more details about the doodlebugs on the Little Miami? I hope to get back to "The Limited" fairly soon, and want to start filling in a lot of material. >> >From a couple of shots published in the Greene Co. (Ohio) Historical Society's "Next Stop Xenia!" and eyewitnesses, it was a Brill car was assigned as the last passenger power on the Cincinnati-Springfield run. No road number is legible. It ran over the Cincinnati Division's eastbound main up the Little Miami Valley to Xenia where the run crossed the Columbus Division's "Passenger Line" and continued north on the Springfield Branch (as the Little Miami RR was known). At the end the service was on alternate days. Tom V. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:41:34 -0400 From: Kent Loudon Subject: [PRR] How to bastardize a GG1 Content-Length: 866 s. a. mccall wrote 25 Apr: 3. Purchase a good used U36c. 4. Install the U36 engine, generator(60 cycle AC), controls and traction motors in the gutted GG1 body and chassis. 5. Connect the traction motors to the new power plant 5. You will now have a 3600HP GG1 that could go anywhere. Sorry, this would have to be called be a GGU36 ! The ultimate attribute of the GG1 in my estimation, was its silence ! - Kent Loudon, Somerville, NJ 14:57 26-Apr-98 via OzWin 2.20 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:58:11 -0500 From: Randy & Sharon Mower Subject: Re: [PRR] How to bastardize a GG1 Content-Length: 880 Kent Loudon wrote: > s. a. mccall wrote 25 Apr: > > 3. Purchase a good used U36c. > 4. Install the U36 engine, generator(60 cycle AC), controls and traction > motors in the gutted GG1 body and chassis. > 5. Connect the traction motors to the new power plant > 5. You will now have a 3600HP GG1 that could go anywhere. > > Sorry, this would have to be called be a GGU36 ! > > The ultimate attribute of the GG1 in my estimation, was its silence ! Would'nt it be a U36GG? Randy ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Tod Engine Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 16:02:12 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] How to bastardize a GG1 Content-Length: 1850 In a message dated 98-04-26 15:47:01 EDT, you write: > s. a. mccall wrote 25 Apr: > > 3. Purchase a good used U36c. > 4. Install the U36 engine, generator(60 cycle AC), controls and traction > motors in the gutted GG1 body and chassis. > 5. Connect the traction motors to the new power plant > 5. You will now have a 3600HP GG1 that could go anywhere. > > Sorry, this would have to be called be a GGU36 ! > > The ultimate attribute of the GG1 in my estimation, was its silence ! > GE stopped building good railway equipment the day the last GG-1 was shipped from Erie! I wonder if installing a Cooper Bessemer prime mover into a G would turn it into the rolling earthquake that all U boats had a tendency to become? I doubt that a GG-1 could structurally support a diesel prime mover without very extensive modifications. The only plausible way to make something like this work would be to supply power from a coupled diesel locomotive, remove the 12 traction motors and install six modified DC traction motors to drive the quills. However, the GG-1's legendary speed, quick acceleration, quietness etc. would be gone. But this type of a modification could be done without permanently altering the G, and might be an option to take a restored G off of the NEC and on a tour of nonelectrified territory. For now, let's place this idea in the last boxcar of our GG-1 restoration idea train. :-) Rick Rowlands ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RLA0220@webtv.net (RICHARD ADER) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 16:14:59 -0400 Subject: [PRR] GP9b kitbash Content-Length: 530 To all; Has anyone kitbashed a GP9 b unit? I have never seen one on the market, other than brass so plastic must have to be kitbashed. Where do I begin? Thanks. Rich ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Paintloco Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 17:09:00 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Warren Pa. Tracks Content-Length: 1091 Rich, I'll try to answer your questions as best I can from memory. 1. The PRR and NYC interchanged at the east ent of the PRR yard. That yard is still in use. I do not know if the NYC had a yard there. 2. The A&E is the Alleghany and Eastern Railroad, a regional that operates the x-Renov Div. from OD yard at Erie to Emporium Jct. It is owned by the Genesee and Wyoming, a company that owns several regional railroads. Conrail has trackage rights for its Lock Haven- Erie train HPA-7. 3. One of the bridges at Irv tower is still in use, carring the main of the A&E RR. I model the Renovo Div from OD yard at Erie to Garland, Pa., just a few miles west of Irv. Where are you located? Do you have access to Warren? Don ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 17:48:40 -0400 From: Kent Loudon Subject: Re: [PRR] How to bastardize a GG1 Content-Length: 1484 >From "Randy" (rsmower@earthlink.net): >> Wouldn't it be a U36GG? << Or perhaps a U36GAG1 ! Go ahead and try this on your "virtual" PRR model pike, and while you're at it why not design a GG2 (with pinstriping by Raymond Blooey) ? Hmmm... while we're on this subject, why not use the steam generator to operate a turbine to provide traction power, then rig up the pantographs to provide "hotel power" making it Amfleet compatible, and at the same time completely subverting it's original configuration ! In case you think I'm stretching a point, back in the 60's Penn Central (RIH) de-motored a set of MP54's, leaving one pantograph intact for hotel power. The "pull train", as it was called, was hauled by a (de-boilered ?) GG1 ! I recall many years ago the Electric Railroader's Association operated an MU fantrip on the Lackawanna's electrified lines. The final portion was over the non-electrified Boonton line and the trip flyer stated that this portion would be powered by a "self-generating electric locomotive" ! Really ! - Kent Loudon, Somerville, NJ 17:21 26-Apr-98 via OzWin 2.20 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 17:48:40 -0400 From: Kent Loudon Subject: Re: [PRR] How to bastardize a GG1 Content-Length: 1484 >From "Randy" (rsmower@earthlink.net): >> Wouldn't it be a U36GG? << Or perhaps a U36GAG1 ! Go ahead and try this on your "virtual" PRR model pike, and while you're at it why not design a GG2 (with pinstriping by Raymond Blooey) ? Hmmm... while we're on this subject, why not use the steam generator to operate a turbine to provide traction power, then rig up the pantographs to provide "hotel power" making it Amfleet compatible, and at the same time completely subverting it's original configuration ! In case you think I'm stretching a point, back in the 60's Penn Central (RIH) de-motored a set of MP54's, leaving one pantograph intact for hotel power. The "pull train", as it was called, was hauled by a (de-boilered ?) GG1 ! I recall many years ago the Electric Railroader's Association operated an MU fantrip on the Lackawanna's electrified lines. The final portion was over the non-electrified Boonton line and the trip flyer stated that this portion would be powered by a "self-generating electric locomotive" ! Really ! - Kent Loudon, Somerville, NJ 17:21 26-Apr-98 via OzWin 2.20 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 18:16:43 -0500 From: Andy Cich Subject: Re: [PRR] GP9b kitbash Content-Length: 1437 RICHARD ADER wrote: > > To all; > Has anyone kitbashed a GP9 b unit? I have > never seen one on the market, other than > brass so plastic must have to be kitbashed. > Where do I begin? > Thanks. > Rich Rich, What you need is Hi-Tech Details part # 5011, EMD GP-9 "B" Unit Cab (Retails for $6.95). It is designed to replace the cab on the P2K GP9. Basically you remove the cab and trim the cab steps. I wasn't really planning on making a GP9b, but I saw the part in the hobby store and had to have it. I haven't researched if any other details are required to complete the conversion, but I did a quick scan and found a few photos in Pennsy Power II. They show that the number boards on the hood ends need to be blanked off, and the road number appears on the sidesill alongside the cab. If I can find matching paint, I think I am going to start with a decorated unit. I hope this gives you a start. I found the part at Des Plaines Hobbies, in the Chicago area. The had several and are listed in the back of Model Railroader. Andy C. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 19:53:55 -0400 From: "s.a. mccall" Subject: [PRR] PRR CT1000E May 1945 ---No Reserve---Item #12208655 Content-Length: 456 Greetings, Check it out all you SPF's........... Sincerely, S.A. McCall HOSAM Franklin, Va. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 20:04:45 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Warren Pa. Tracks Content-Length: 747 In a message dated 98-04-25 15:23:16 EDT, RLA0220@webtv.net writes: << snip Where did the NYC line through IRV come from? I know it went to Titisville, but from where? snip >> The NYC tracks ran south from Falconer Jct. with the Erie near Jamestown NY to Warren. The NYC had running rights over the PRR to Garland where the NYC tracks headed SW to Titusville. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DZJN21A@prodigy.com (MR CHARLES J CHANDLER II) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 20:18:00, -0500 Subject: [PRR] Bachman Doodlebugs Content-Length: 1490 HI all, With all the talk of doodlebugs, I went out today and bought a Bachman unit. I know it isn't an exact match for Pennsy #4644, but the price was right and it runs really nice! I think I've found a close match for this car. In" Pennsy Electric Years" by Bill Volkmer on pgs. 119 & 123 you will find #4644 after it was wrecked at 30th st Post Office in Phila. and rebuilt at Wilm. DE into tower car #489502. The Bachman car seems to be a good starting point for this unique car! Anyone know where I might find plans for this car or more detailed pictures of the roof components? I know its a challenge but this car would sure look neat working under my catenary. Also, since #489502 resembles the Bachman car, does anyone have pictures of #4644 before it was wrecked? Could this be an easier conversion of the Bachman car? Thanks, Charles Chandler ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 20:30:54 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] GG-1 power Content-Length: 1318 Hi folks... Hmmmm if were gonna set up some power for a GG-1 to run off of and make it look right....do this.... Take a old express box car or baggage car and put the generating unit in it. That way it would look good behing the engine...Just like it was another car it was pulling.....Put some jumper cable ports on it so they will mate up with the G's cable ports and M.U. the thing. Maybe a set up similar to the HEP cars Amtrak had (has?) could work. Hmmmm....if you used a big enough baggage car you could have two diesels running to supply plenty of power for the G. Remember G's did pull HEP cars at one time,so this may not be a hard thing to do. Still would like to see one run with the wire though... As God and the PRR intended. Well thats my two cents worth.... Til Later as always Hank Mummert ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 20:30:19 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] GP9b kitbash Content-Length: 472 Smokey Valley makes a conversion kit which includes cab, doors which need to be replaced, and hand rails. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:51:16 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Re: GG1 restoration-different approach From: carl-vic-vogel@juno.com (Carl K Vogel) Content-Length: 1579 S.A. Now that we got that problem solved...let's get on to the important issues: #1) What color to paint the doggone thing! I vote DGLE! Thanks, Carl K.Vogel Financially Depleted Chief Engineer Taunton & Tuckerton Railway On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:34:05 -0400 "s.a. mccall" writes: > >Greetings, > > All this talk about restoring a GG1 to operating condition has >excited >some brain cells. > 1. Purchase a GG1 which has no transformer and poor electrics. > 2. Completely gut the interior, saving the chassis and body, making >basically no changes to the exterior. > 3. Purchase a good used U36c. > 4. Install the U36 engine, generator(60 cycle AC), controls and >traction > motors in the gutted GG1 body and chassis. > 5. Connect the traction motors to the new power plant > 5. You will now have a 3600HP GG1 that could go anywhere. > > > >S.A. McCall HOSAM >Franklin, Va. > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Paintloco Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:29:17 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Warren Pa. Tracks Content-Length: 953 Yes, the Erie main from JU to Erie, OD yard is still intact and in use. Conrail's HPA-7 runs Lock Haven to Erie arriving Tues, Thurs and Sat early am. It returns departing Erie about 7:00 pm the same day. Logs to Erie and pulp out along with empty log cars. The A & E runs Tues thru Sat from Warren to Erie arriving Erie about 11:00 am or so. Tankers from the refinery in Warren to Erie, coal for Hammermill and some other freight constitute the traffic. Sometimes this train can exceed 40 cars. The A&E also runs east from Warren to Emporium but I am not familier with the traffic. Don ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] SALE-Champ Decals Date: Mon, 27 Apr 98 06:18:42 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 812 Just a few more days (April 30th) to get orders in to Desktop Solutions for Champ Decals at 20% off. The order will go in May 4th (Monday). The list is at http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html Remember, proceeds support this list! ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:46:44 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Re: GG1 restoration-different approach From: padraice@juno.com (Patrick M Egan) Content-Length: 2406 Ok, but how about a F45, FP45, or F40 or two. Paint it DGLE five stripe or Tuscan, couple it to the G, put a control box in the G, and off you go. Pat Egan On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:34:05 -0400 "s.a. mccall" writes: > >Greetings, > > All this talk about restoring a GG1 to operating condition has >excited >some brain cells. > 1. Purchase a GG1 which has no transformer and poor electrics. > 2. Completely gut the interior, saving the chassis and body, making >basically no changes to the exterior. > 3. Purchase a good used U36c. > 4. Install the U36 engine, generator(60 cycle AC), controls and >traction > motors in the gutted GG1 body and chassis. > 5. Connect the traction motors to the new power plant > 5. You will now have a 3600HP GG1 that could go anywhere. > > With permission of the NS, who will be in control of the old PRR >territory, this engine could be used to tour the entire NS system. >This >would make the engine available to many who never saw the original. > > I expect to hear only from those who have 200 reasons why it would >not work. >Also e-mail from those purists who would only have an original. > > Keep those cards and letters coming in folks that's what gives me >those >great ratings. > > Actually I'm about half serious about this......... > > >Sincerely, > >S.A. McCall HOSAM >Franklin, Va. > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. >------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:17:48 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] GP9b kitbash Content-Length: 1001 Rich and all, By now I hope you all realize that there is a conversion kit for the Life Like GP-9 phase 3. I took a look at it this past weekend and I for one think it is tops. If you can hold on Stuart Thayer (a long time L&N modeler and PRR fan) and I are working on article of the GP-9b and the standard GP-9 both phase 3's. It will be my first time worknig with Stuart and i am looking forward to it . We are both very of the belief that modeling should be accurate and realistic ( I still am trying to avoid the P word). Watching from LINES way out WEST Greg Martin Salem, Or Hometown for A C Gilbert ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 8:43:21 -0500 From: "Laird, Bill (GWise)" Subject: Re: [PRR] GP9b kitbash -Reply Content-Length: 1031 Date: 04/27/1998 02:41 pm (Monday) From: Bill Laird To: INET.MAIL("PRR-Talk@dsop.com") Subject: Re: [PRR] GP9b kitbash -Reply Greg, 1. When is the projected completion date of your article? 2. Where will the article be published? Having given up on E&C Shops GP9b (while still waiting for their GP9a, now a year overdue), I am going the kitbash route for a GP9b. Bill Laird Houston, Texas >>> PRR-Talk@dsop.com 04/27/98 08:17am wrote, in part>>> >>> If you can hold on Stuart Thayer (a long time L&N modeler and PRR fan) and I are working on article of the GP-9b and the standard GP-9 both phase Greg Martin <<< ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:17:16 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Hunter" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 1223 Content-Length: 933 Dear Wayne- Thanks for your explanation. The one about the non-Pennsy steel came from a former official of the Museum, but yours makes some sense from the point of view of the SRR. And yet, they did run it for several years, and I wish it could be used for special events if not for regular service. As much as I like the ex-N&W Mastodon, it's sort of like using a GP9 instead of an FP7 for passenger service. It was done, it can be done now, but a genuine PRR passenger locomotive, there's just something about the appropriateness and mystique of it! Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:33:48 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Hunter" Subject: Re: [PRR] GP9b kitbash Content-Length: 1247 Richard- I think Precision Scale or Smokey Mountain or one of the parts companies made a cab replacement part for a GP9b. Check out a Walther's catalog. You could bash an Athearn, or (my choice) a P2K GP18, or, if you are really gutsey, one of the new P2K GP9s. Jim On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, RICHARD ADER wrote: > To all; > Has anyone kitbashed a GP9 b unit? I have > never seen one on the market, other than > brass so plastic must have to be kitbashed. > Where do I begin? > Thanks. > Rich > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:21:57 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Hunter" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 1223 Content-Length: 539 Dear Bill- Thanks for your information, too. I have the greatest respect for the folks who run the SRR. But we still have this memory of PRR power actually running! Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: FRANKGARON Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:50:20 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] GG-1 power Content-Length: 1898 As the wacko/visionary/genius/fill in the blank that came up with this recent version of the let's restore a G, there is no way in hell that I would want to see a Rube Goldberg contraption with a diesel engine or power car behind it, nor would I personally contribute any time, money or effort to it. However, it is almost a neat (if sick) idea. Maybe you guys can restore a diesel version, and we can have a Railroad version of a tractor pull, our electric G vs. your diesel G. On a serious note, I realize we will have to make compromises in our restoration effort. No way we can keep a G 100% absolutly original and perfect to PRR factory specs. I would like to see it come close, though. IMHO, repaints of let's say a B&LE F7 into CNJ or whatever doesn't get me nearly as excited as a good honest restoration (i.e: the Reading HS's C630). The make believe stuff (the Erie and DLW E8's, for example) looks good, and sounds good, and very definetly serves it's' purpose in drawing $$$ and interest, but if I was to help restore a G, the hum of the traction motors and a real live pantagraph that works would be things I'd want to see. We have discussed the idea (floating a trial balloon here, folks) of repainting our G from time to time (hopefully in the paint schemes that this particular motor wore): PRR green or red pinstripe, PRR large stripe/keystone and horrors, maybe even PC. This may serve to maintain interest over a long period of time, if we rotate paint schemes. Opinions welcome. Frank Garon ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] GG-1 power Date: Mon, 27 Apr 98 13:58:21 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1163 On 4/27/98 12:50 PM, FRANKGARON (FRANKGARON@aol.com) wrote: >We have discussed the idea (floating a trial balloon here, folks) of >repainting our G from time to time (hopefully in the paint schemes that this >particular motor wore): PRR green or red pinstripe, PRR large stripe/keystone >and horrors, maybe even PC. >This may serve to maintain interest over a long period of time, if we rotate >paint schemes. Paint each side in a different scheme, put 'er on a turntable, and keep it spinning! 8-) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale: http://prr.dsop.com/layout/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Huber25 Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:29:40 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 1223 Content-Length: 1624 In regards the Strasburg they are a first class operation using the best maintained equipment I've seen. They are to be commended for restoring such a large amount of hard to maintain wood constructed rolling stock. The fact that in recent years they have elected to letter rolling stock for the appropriate railroads is highly commendable. They'll always be my favorite tourist railroad. As to operating the #1223 they are to be congratulated and thanked for the many years they gave us with her. If you haven't paid attention to the Strasburg's operation it may have slipped your attention that they operate two trains during the peak season and they are pretty long trains now. As much as I'd like to see the Strasburg using the #1223 and the Reading Camelback #4 (#1187) the fact is that both of them are simply too light for the amount of patronage at the Strasburg. The fact that the #1223 isn't owned by them also has a lot to do with the repairs or lack of repairs done to the engine. The RR Museum Of Pennsylvania certainly has the right to "alter" the #1223 or not as they deem. At least there IS a Pennsy D-16sb around for us to look at and ponder her beauty. We weren't so fortunate with the J-1's and many other railroad's engines. Roger ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:43:55 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] GG-1 power Content-Length: 943 On 4/27/98 12:50 PM, FRANKGARON (FRANKGARON@aol.com) wrote: >>We have discussed the idea (floating a trial balloon here, folks) of repainting our G from time to time (hopefully in the paint schemes that this particular motor wore): PRR green or red pinstripe, PRR large stripe/keystone and horrors, maybe even PC. This may serve to maintain interest over a long period of time, if we rotate paint schemes. >> I become totally irrational on this subject. I cannot imagine any other scheme than DGLE 5-stripe! As God and Raymond Loewy intended it. :-) Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Knepper" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: GG1 restoration-different approach Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:25:50 -0500 Content-Length: 2581 Paint it the same as 4935............and I don't care what color you call it ! Bill Knepper PS: The strips were put on 4935 by painting the side of the engine with the striping color, then taping the strips, and then painting the engine with the (DGLE / Brunswick Green) Then the tape was removed showing the stripped areas. ---------- > From: Carl K Vogel > To: hosam@amaze.net > Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Re: GG1 restoration-different approach > Date: Saturday, April 25, 1998 9:51 PM > > S.A. > > Now that we got that problem solved...let's get on to the important > issues: > > #1) What color to paint the doggone thing! > > I vote DGLE! > Thanks, > > Carl K.Vogel > Financially Depleted Chief Engineer > Taunton & Tuckerton Railway > > On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:34:05 -0400 "s.a. mccall" > writes: > > > >Greetings, > > > > All this talk about restoring a GG1 to operating condition has > >excited > >some brain cells. > > 1. Purchase a GG1 which has no transformer and poor electrics. > > 2. Completely gut the interior, saving the chassis and body, making > >basically no changes to the exterior. > > 3. Purchase a good used U36c. > > 4. Install the U36 engine, generator(60 cycle AC), controls and > >traction > > motors in the gutted GG1 body and chassis. > > 5. Connect the traction motors to the new power plant > > 5. You will now have a 3600HP GG1 that could go anywhere. > > > > > > > >S.A. McCall HOSAM > >Franklin, Va. > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Tod Engine Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:34:30 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: GG1 restoration-different approach Content-Length: 1144 In a message dated 98-04-26 21:51:46 EDT, you write: > S.A. > > Now that we got that problem solved...let's get on to the important > issues: > > #1) What color to paint the doggone thing! > > I vote DGLE! What is DGLE? I kinda like the powder puff blue "American Railroads" scheme. :-) Seriously, we had discussed using every paint job. Every so many years repaint it into another version of the paint scheme. In order to avoid a never ending debate as to which color to use first, I propose that we use the schemes in chronological order, starting with Loewys brunswick green & futura lettering, and ending with the Amtrak platinum mist. Let's skip the PC & CR black schemes. This way it gives people a reason to come back and ride again. Rick ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:04:05 -0400 From: "R. Vogel" Subject: Re: [PRR] GG-1 power Content-Length: 1525 > t > We have discussed the idea (floating a trial balloon here, folks) of > repainting our G from time to time (hopefully in the paint schemes that this > particular motor wore): PRR green or red pinstripe, PRR large stripe/keystone > and horrors, maybe even PC. > This may serve to maintain interest over a long period of time, if we rotate > paint schemes. > > Opinions welcome. > > Frank Garon > > I like the idea of rotating the paint scheme chronological order . I would not skip PC. PC colors did not make it any less awesome pulling into Newark NJ where I'd get on. (Of course it made it less beautiful). How often do engines need repainting? (Or should electric locomotives be referred to as motors?) As to the Head End Power. Does anyone have Amtrak compatible cars that rely on steam instead of electricity available for year round excursions? Does Amtrak allow steam heat cars? If only "electric" passenger cars are permitted the G could transform the overhead current into suitable power for heat. If so leave the steam heat boiler in place and leave it turned off. Show it off at open "houses". -Bob Vogel ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:30:01 -0500 From: Randy & Sharon Mower Subject: Re: [PRR] GP9b kitbash Content-Length: 834 RICHARD ADER wrote: > To all; > Has anyone kitbashed a GP9 b unit? I have > never seen one on the market, other than > brass so plastic must have to be kitbashed. > Where do I begin? > Thanks. > Rich > Its really not too tough if you use an Athern GP-9 the cab comes off in just the right spotso all you have to do is make new sides and a top out of styrene and drill two portholes. I made one for a fellow a few years ago (in PC paint though :<) Randy ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Tod Engine Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:06:54 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] GG-1 power Content-Length: 1026 While we're expounding ideas here's a doozie! Get two 20' tri level autoracks. Put a diesel prime mover in one of them. Then couple the GG-1 between the two cars, string a wire from the roof of one auto rack to the other, and then raise the G's pantograph. Start up the diesel engine and abracadabra... diesel powered GG-1 collecting current from cantenary!!! Hehehehe. Whew, whatever is in this bottle here is pretty darn good.:-) Seriously, as Frank Garon stated, we're out to return a GG1 to the service that it was historically designed to do, that is to move passenger trains at high speeds on the NEC and other electrified lines. Rick ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Tod Engine Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:10:42 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] GG-1 power Content-Length: 1021 In a message dated 98-04-27 20:01:18 EDT, you write: > As to the Head End Power. Does anyone have Amtrak compatible cars that rely > on > steam instead of electricity available for year round excursions? Does > Amtrak > allow steam heat cars? > > If only "electric" passenger cars are permitted the G could transform the > overhead current into suitable power for heat. If so leave the steam heat > boiler in place and leave it turned off. Show it off at open "houses". > Since new electricals would be installed it would be no problem to install additional taps to provide the 440 VAC or whatever HEP requires for the train. Rick ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:37:05 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] GG-1 power Content-Length: 1311 R. Vogel wrote: > > ...Does anyone have Amtrak compatible cars that rely on > steam instead of electricity available for year round excursions? Does Amtrak > allow steam heat cars? > I think the steam connections between cars are prohibited by virtue of the fact that they fall below the minimum requirement for clearance above the rail; at least, that was what I heard on the CC&H RR relevant to operating over Conrail back in 1987. BTW, can anyone confirm or rebut my suspicion that the GG-1's were 25 cycle only and would not be compatible with present 60 cycle overhead supply? I am not aware that they were ever converted to dual frequency ability the way later power was built. Another BTW, if anyone seriously considers powering a GG-1 from an on-board generating system, remember that the locomotives use single-phase power and most alternators of sufficient capacity to run a locomotive are 3 phase. Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:20:42 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg infomation Content-Length: 791 Is there anybody who could help a visitor to Harrisburg get some information? I am arriving at the Harrisburg depot on May 9th and then we have to go out to the airport to pick up a rental vehicle. I know this is not a PRR subject per se, but I thought there would be somebody that could point me in the right direction of what there is to see in the Harrisburg area (railfan wise that is). Thanks, Randy Williamson ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:20:20 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] GP9b kitbash Content-Length: 1342 In a message dated 98-04-27 20:35:32 EDT, rsmower@earthlink.net writes: << ts really not too tough if you use an Athern GP-9 the cab comes off in just the right spotso all you have to do is make new sides and a top out of styrene and drill two portholes. I made one for a fellow a few years ago (in PC paint though :<) >> The Athearn body would require major changes to be converted into a PRR GP9b. First the Athearn is a GP7 regardless of what Athearn prints on the box. Second the hood is 3 feet two wide. An early concession by Athearn to fit the original large 5 pole motor into the shell. Front Range GP9 phase III (all PRR GP9b's were phase III) shells can be converted using the Smokey Valley conversion kit ($19.95) . The hood will be the correct width. The cab will be correct, the hood doors will be correct, the battery box vents will be correct, etc. With some minor modifications the kit can be used with the P2K GP9 phase III. Rich Orr. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg infomation Date: Tue, 28 Apr 98 10:23:43 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1983 On 4/28/98 10:20 AM, Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com (Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com) wrote: > Is there anybody who could help a visitor to Harrisburg get some >information? I am arriving at the Harrisburg depot on May 9th and then we >have to go out to the airport to pick up a rental vehicle. I know this is >not a PRR subject per se, but I thought there would be somebody that could >point me in the right direction of what there is to see in the Harrisburg >area (railfan wise that is). I've lived in the greater Harrisburg area all my life (35 years). The subject of railfanning in Harrisburg was discussed a few weeks ago on the list, so check out the online archive for details. In summary, main locations are: * The Harrisburg passenger station where you arrive at. The passenger main obviously passes through, but so does the Royalton Branch for freight traffic. It is also the location where the ex-Reading line connects. * About 7 miles north is the Rockville Bridge. Always a good place...from either side of the river. * Enola Yard on the west side of the river. About 12-15 minutes from the station. Very little classification activity anymore. Mostly parking of unit trains. Lots of diesel service activity, however. Unfortunately, that's about it these days. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale: http://prr.dsop.com/layout/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:25:43 +0100 From: J Bruce Andrews Subject: Re: [PRR] GP9b kitbash Content-Length: 1200 SUVCW ORR wrote: > Front Range GP9 phase III (all PRR GP9b's were phase III) shells can be > converted using the Smokey Valley conversion kit ($19.95) . The hood will be > the correct width. The cab will be correct, the hood doors will be correct, > the battery box vents will be correct, etc. With some minor modifications the > kit can be used with the P2K GP9 phase III. > > Rich Orr. > I am in the process of applying the Smokey Valley conversion kit to a P2K GP18 (along with other backdating to make a GP9b). The modifications I am finding neccessary are not what I would call minor, but I think the result will be worth the effort. It would be a breeze for anyone with a precision milling machine. By the way, does anyone know where I can find tread material to match that on the P2K's walkways. Bruce Andrews ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention Weather Date: Tue, 28 Apr 98 12:10:45 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 921 For those planning to attend the convention this weekend -- which is right down the road from me -- the current forecast is as follows: Thursday: Showers, high of 67 Friday: Rain, high of 67 Saturday: Showers/Sun (clearing?), high of 72 Sunday: not available yet ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale: http://prr.dsop.com/layout/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:01:12 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] I1 tenders. Content-Length: 1970 >Anyone got a confirmed shot of an I1 in the 1940s with a long tender? I looked long and hard, since I like those tenders, but to no avail. There are, of course plenty of shots in the 50's with I1s with 210 tenders. It would appear that a more common locomotive with that tender would be the M1. Plenty of shots, beginning circa 1935, have the long tender. From a practical standpoint, long tenders weren't really needed in the helper sections where I1s worked, since they didn't stray to far from home. However, as steam waned, facilities became fewer and further seperated, and the long tenders became very useful on the I1. BTW, is the Bowser 210 tender a new casting? I had heard that they were going to release a new casting for that tender... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Eichhorn Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:39:03 EDT Subject: [PRR] "The Keystone", Vol 21, No. 1 Content-Length: 1223 Hi Gang, When I was in Timonium for the last brass show, wandering aimlessly, I came upon a book dealer who was selling old copies of "The Keystone" and he happened to have a copy of Vol. 21, No. 1, Spring 1988. This issue contains two articles pertaining to tenders: 13,000 Gal. Tenders, and Kiesel Tenders. If you do not already have a copy in your possession, I highly recommend that if ever you come across one....buy it, it's a SPF's delight. These two articles, spanning 29 pages, contain the nuts, bolts, rivets, etc., of everything you ever wanted to know concerning these tenders and then some. I never realized that there were so many variations of the 110P and 130P class of tenders. Two pages are dedicated to diagrams of the variants. Now, if I can only commit to memory a small portion of what I have read and reread... :-). George ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 17:21:49 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg infomation Content-Length: 2287 There used to be a Truc-Train terminal in Harrisburg. It was to the west of the passenger station. I remember that from way back (at least into PRR days). If that's still there, it might be worth a visit. Also, the Harrisburg engine house was visible from a bridge. There was even a narrow gauge line slag dump from the steel mill that ran nearby. Is any of this still there? Maybe our Harriburg residents can comment on whether these sites (sights) are still there. John Keel In a message dated 98-04-28 10:59:48 EDT, jerry@dsop.com writes: << On 4/28/98 10:20 AM, Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com (Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com) wrote: > Is there anybody who could help a visitor to Harrisburg get some >information? I am arriving at the Harrisburg depot on May 9th and then we >have to go out to the airport to pick up a rental vehicle. I know this is >not a PRR subject per se, but I thought there would be somebody that could >point me in the right direction of what there is to see in the Harrisburg >area (railfan wise that is). I've lived in the greater Harrisburg area all my life (35 years). The subject of railfanning in Harrisburg was discussed a few weeks ago on the list, so check out the online archive for details. In summary, main locations are: * The Harrisburg passenger station where you arrive at. The passenger main obviously passes through, but so does the Royalton Branch for freight traffic. It is also the location where the ex-Reading line connects. * About 7 miles north is the Rockville Bridge. Always a good place...from either side of the river. * Enola Yard on the west side of the river. About 12-15 minutes from the station. Very little classification activity anymore. Mostly parking of unit trains. Lots of diesel service activity, however. Unfortunately, that's about it these days. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Knepper" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: GG1 restoration-different approach Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:29:38 -0500 Content-Length: 1862 After you see the price tag for the paint job.......You'll pick just one... Bill Knepper ---------- > From: Tod Engine > To: carl-vic-vogel@juno.com; prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: GG1 restoration-different approach > Date: Monday, April 27, 1998 3:34 PM > > In a message dated 98-04-26 21:51:46 EDT, you write: > > > S.A. > > > > Now that we got that problem solved...let's get on to the important > > issues: > > > > #1) What color to paint the doggone thing! > > > > I vote DGLE! > > What is DGLE? > > I kinda like the powder puff blue "American Railroads" scheme. :-) > > Seriously, we had discussed using every paint job. Every so many years > repaint it into another version of the paint scheme. In order to avoid a > never ending debate as to which color to use first, I propose that we use the > schemes in chronological order, starting with Loewys brunswick green & futura > lettering, and ending with the Amtrak platinum mist. Let's skip the PC & CR > black schemes. This way it gives people a reason to come back and ride again. > > Rick > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Knepper" Subject: Re: [PRR] GG-1 power Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:39:39 -0500 Content-Length: 2364 You are correct....The GG1 ran on 25 cycle power, if they would have been 60 cycle they surely would be operating today. But remember ...A "G" only looks good under wire ! When they are out from under the wire, they look like there in the scrap yard . And I can't say that I would look forward to seeing a "GG1" on horseshoe curve.......Steam ...yes.......Electric...NO! But then thats my 2 cents. Bill Knepper PS: Spend the money on restoring the M1...... ---------- > From: Stephen Bartlett > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] GG-1 power > Date: Tuesday, April 28, 1998 7:37 AM > > R. Vogel wrote: > > > > ...Does anyone have Amtrak compatible cars that rely on > > steam instead of electricity available for year round excursions? Does Amtrak > > allow steam heat cars? > > > > I think the steam connections between cars are prohibited by virtue of > the fact that they fall below the minimum requirement for clearance > above the rail; at least, that was what I heard on the CC&H RR relevant > to operating over Conrail back in 1987. > > BTW, can anyone confirm or rebut my suspicion that the GG-1's were 25 > cycle only and would not be compatible with present 60 cycle overhead > supply? I am not aware that they were ever converted to dual frequency > ability the way later power was built. > > Another BTW, if anyone seriously considers powering a GG-1 from an > on-board generating system, remember that the locomotives use > single-phase power and most alternators of sufficient capacity to run a > locomotive are 3 phase. > > Steve Bartlett > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 18:05:25 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] GG-1 power Content-Length: 1327 Bill Knepper wrote: > > You are correct....The GG1 ran on 25 cycle power... Bill, Thank you for the response. I agree, The G should be running under wire - not in front of a noisy power car, whether it is providing power or pushing. I don't think the idea of carrying the power supply along is practical. Was just trying to throw in my 2 cents. Also, one of the other reasons for the demise of the G's was metal fatigue in the truck frames. They had been flexed and vibrated over so many miles of operation that they were beginning to fracture. The Chicago Railroad Fair stage pageant in 1948 and 1949 had a Milwaukee bipolar (as I remember) pushed out somehow on a distant track with a wire or rod stretched across the top of the two pans. I think I have a snapshot somewhere - it just didn't look right. I think this is one of those things where "If it's not worth doing right, it's not worth doing at all!" Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Don R. Millbranth" Subject: [PRR] South Bend (IN) Area Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 18:53:12 -0500 Content-Length: 504 Starting tomorrow,at 6 p.m. (IN time) Channel 22 South Bend (IN) will start a program entitled "CRASH COURSE"... actual staged train wrecks... ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:59:54 -0400 From: Chris Brandt Subject: [PRR] Note to Self Content-Length: 834 Note to Self.... North Philadelphia is not a good place to go railfanning. --CB _________ __\ _ /__ --------\ | ) /----------------------------------------------- ---------\ |}/|} /---------Chris Brandt--------------------------- ----------\ |\ |\ /----------mailto:cobrandt@eclipse.net------------ -----------\ | /-----------http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/------ ------------\___/--------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2 Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:16:34 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg infomation/??? Content-Length: 589 Randy & Jerry, I haven't been to Harrisburg in about 22 years but isn't there a GG-1 and an N-5B under the passenger shed at the Harrisburg Station ? How could any self respecting SPF miss these? Ed Martin :^) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Knepper" Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg information/??? Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:23:11 -0500 Content-Length: 1483 Nope ! But there is a "GG1" # 4859, and a N6b # 980016 sitting there on a special track. Access to see it can be obtained from the station master......Tell him that you are a PRR historian, and don't try and get on the equipment........Thats a sure way to leave the property real fast. Bill Knepper ---------- > From: ELM2 > To: jerry@dsop.com; Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com; prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg infomation/??? > Date: Tuesday, April 28, 1998 7:16 PM > > Randy & Jerry, > I haven't been to Harrisburg in about 22 years but isn't > there a GG-1 and an N-5B under the passenger shed at the Harrisburg Station ? > How could any self respecting SPF miss these? Ed Martin :^) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:54:23 -0500 From: Randy & Sharon Mower Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg infomation Content-Length: 1396 Da72jmk wrote: > There used to be a Truc-Train terminal in Harrisburg. It was to the west of > the passenger station. I remember that from way back (at least into PRR > days). If that's still there, it might be worth a visit. > > Also, the Harrisburg engine house was visible from a bridge. There was even a > narrow gauge line slag dump from the steel mill that ran nearby. Is any of > this still there? > > Maybe our Harriburg residents can comment on whether these sites (sights) are > still there. > > John Keel > The "trucktrain terminal" is Conrail's Harrisburg Trailvan terminal (3rd busiest after Chicago and New Jersey). Don't try to visit though, as the terminal is heavily patrolled by CR police. The terminal can be viewed from the I81 bridge. There is also a good vantage point of the west end of the yard that can be viewed from the Rt 39 bridge. The Harrisburg engine terminal is gone it was demolished over the winter. The site is now a parking lot for the intermodal terminal. Randy ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:59:29 -0400 From: Chris Brandt Subject: Re: [PRR] Note to Self Content-Length: 1304 Derrick J Brashear wrote: > > no places to watch, or got accosted or worse? > > -D Nowhere I felt safe even unlocking the door, let alone getting out to take a picture. It was a beautiful day in Philadelphia and I was hoping to take some shots near ZOO, but the DMZ was a little too intimidating. I had never been to this area except on a train and had no idea of what to expect. Now I know better. Its funny how when you have your attention fixed on the tracks you sometimes don't quite notice the neighborhood you're in. Psalm 23 --CB _________ __\ _ /__ --------\ | ) /----------------------------------------------- ---------\ |}/|} /---------Chris Brandt--------------------------- ----------\ |\ |\ /----------mailto:cobrandt@eclipse.net------------ -----------\ | /-----------http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/------ ------------\___/--------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:03:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Note to Self Content-Length: 970 On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Chris Brandt wrote: > Nowhere I felt safe even unlocking the door, let alone getting out to > take a picture. It was a beautiful day in Philadelphia and I was hoping > to take some shots near ZOO, but the DMZ was a little too intimidating. > I had never been to this area except on a train and had no idea of what > to expect. Now I know better. > Its funny how when you have your attention fixed on the tracks you > sometimes don't quite notice the neighborhood you're in. You do when the natives are throwing rocks at the train (between Dallas and Fort Worth last month) -D ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] GP9b kitbash Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 23:00:39 -0500 Content-Length: 2147 A possible solution to the GP9B problem: from the April 98 issue of Model Railroad News, page 8, Hi-Tech Details, P. O. Box 244, Ukiah, California, 95482 has a B unit conversion kit, #5011, for the P2K GP9. Price is $6.95. Steve ---------- > From: SUVCW ORR > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] GP9b kitbash > Date: Tuesday, April 28, 1998 9:20 AM > > In a message dated 98-04-27 20:35:32 EDT, rsmower@earthlink.net writes: > > << ts really not too tough if you use an Athern GP-9 the cab comes off in just > the right spotso all you have to do is make new sides and a top out of > styrene and drill two portholes. I made one for a fellow a few years ago > (in PC paint though :<) > >> > > The Athearn body would require major changes to be converted into a PRR GP9b. > First the Athearn is a GP7 regardless of what Athearn prints on the box. > Second the hood is 3 feet two wide. An early concession by Athearn to fit the > original large 5 pole motor into the shell. > > Front Range GP9 phase III (all PRR GP9b's were phase III) shells can be > converted using the Smokey Valley conversion kit ($19.95) . The hood will be > the correct width. The cab will be correct, the hood doors will be correct, > the battery box vents will be correct, etc. With some minor modifications the > kit can be used with the P2K GP9 phase III. > > Rich Orr. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] I1 tenders. Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 23:22:16 -0500 Content-Length: 3277 More on the quest for I1 long tender photos, confirmed shot. In Bill Caloroso's "Pennsylvania Railroad's Elmira Branch" (1993, Andover Junction Publications, ISBN: 0-944119-12-3), on page 63 is a photo of 4612 approaching Elmira equipped with a 210F82. That is the class with 6 wheel trucks and riveted tank, with deck height for the I1. The photo can be dated as 1940 or prior by two characterisitics: 1. the feedwater heater is the as-built configuration, without the "cutout" at the lower front corner, and the walkway not attached above the air compressor; 2. the "PENNSYLVANIA" on the tender side is the "short" style, not the stretched out style of the post-war years. Steve > From: Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] I1 tenders. > Date: Tuesday, April 28, 1998 1:01 PM > > >Anyone got a confirmed shot of an I1 in the 1940s with a long tender? > > I looked long and hard, since I like those tenders, but to no avail. There > are, of course plenty of shots in the 50's with I1s with 210 tenders. It > would appear that a more common locomotive with that tender would be the > M1. Plenty of shots, beginning circa 1935, have the long tender. From a > practical standpoint, long tenders weren't really needed in the helper > sections where I1s worked, since they didn't stray to far from home. > However, as steam waned, facilities became fewer and further seperated, and > the long tenders became very useful on the I1. > > BTW, is the Bowser 210 tender a new casting? I had heard that they were > going to release a new casting for that tender... > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and > Director, Nucleic Acid Services > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > **************************************************************************** **** > Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html > _ _ > / \ / \ > ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ > |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg infomation Date: Wed, 29 Apr 98 06:18:09 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1140 On 4/28/98 5:21 PM, Da72jmk (Da72jmk@aol.com) wrote: >There used to be a Truc-Train terminal in Harrisburg. It was to the west of >the passenger station. I remember that from way back (at least into PRR >days). If that's still there, it might be worth a visit. Still there. > >Also, the Harrisburg engine house was visible from a bridge. There was >even a >narrow gauge line slag dump from the steel mill that ran nearby. Is any of >this still there? Razed about a year ago. Too bad...180-degree roundhouse and turntable had still been in place. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg infomation/??? Date: Wed, 29 Apr 98 06:19:20 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 928 On 4/28/98 8:16 PM, ELM2 (ELM2@aol.com) wrote: > I haven't been to Harrisburg in about 22 years but >isn't >there a GG-1 and an N-5B under the passenger shed at the Harrisburg Station ? >How could any self respecting SPF miss these? Ed Martin :^) Yes, they are there, restored by the Harrisburg Chapter of the NRHS I believe. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Trains Unlimited Date: Wed, 29 Apr 98 06:22:01 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 737 Next week's (May 4) installment of "Trains Unlimited" (10 a.m. ET) on the History Channel is dedicated to Pennsylvania Station, New York City. Set your VCR! 8-) ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention Weather Update Date: Wed, 29 Apr 98 10:10:11 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 954 Updated weather outlook for the convention: Thursday: Rain, high of 72 Friday: Thunderstorms, high of 65 Saturday: Showers/Sun, high of 64 Sunday: Showers/Sun, high of 65 Well, that sucks! Fortunately, the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania is only a 15 minute drive from the convention site! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale: http://prr.dsop.com/layout/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:33:57 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention Weather Update Content-Length: 1664 Jerry, Are you going to cover the convention for all of us less fortunate people unable to attend? You do have the making of a good reporter. Randy Jerry_Britton on 04/29/98 09:10:11 AM To: "PRR-Talk" cc: (bcc: Randy Williamson/Marathon) Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention Weather Update Updated weather outlook for the convention: Thursday: Rain, high of 72 Friday: Thunderstorms, high of 65 Saturday: Showers/Sun, high of 64 Sunday: Showers/Sun, high of 65 Well, that sucks! Fortunately, the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania is only a 15 minute drive from the convention site! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale: http://prr.dsop.com/layout/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Reporting Date: Wed, 29 Apr 98 11:10:18 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1247 On 4/29/98 10:33 AM, Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com (Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com) wrote: > Are you going to cover the convention for all of us less fortunate >people unable to attend? You do have the making of a good reporter. I will be there Friday for the Columbia session in the morning, as well as the Vendor's Room in the afternoon. I will then have e-mail access later in the day, at which time I will post a report. Though I will be there all day Saturday, I will not have e-mail access again until late Sunday. I will then post a report if nobody else has. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale: http://prr.dsop.com/layout/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Note to Self Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:39:04 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 1090 On 28 Apr, Derrick J Brashear wrote: > On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Chris Brandt wrote: > > Its funny how when you have your attention fixed on the tracks you > > sometimes don't quite notice the neighborhood you're in. > > You do when the natives are throwing rocks at the train (between Dallas > and Fort Worth last month) On the MBTA, you know you've crossed the town line between Cambridge and Belmont when the urchins throw tennis balls instead of rocks at the train! Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:36:43 -0400 (EDT) From: alcoman Subject: Re: [PRR] Note to Self Content-Length: 1347 Care to elaborate on this??? William J. Enser Co-Network Administrator Technical Support & Validations alcoman@bluemoon.net net.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Online System X2 & K56flex Access www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network http://www.bluemoon.net mud.bluemoon.net 4000 - MoonMUD bbs.bluemoon.net irc.bluemoon.net - XWorld Buffalo, NY IRC Server On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Chris Brandt wrote: > Note to Self.... > > North Philadelphia is not a good place to go railfanning. > > --CB > _________ > __\ _ /__ > --------\ | ) /----------------------------------------------- > ---------\ |}/|} /---------Chris Brandt--------------------------- > ----------\ |\ |\ /----------mailto:cobrandt@eclipse.net------------ > -----------\ | /-----------http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/------ > ------------\___/--------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:36:43 -0400 (EDT) From: alcoman Subject: Re: [PRR] Note to Self Content-Length: 1699 Care to elaborate on this??? William J. Enser Co-Network Administrator Technical Support & Validations alcoman@bluemoon.net net.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Online System X2 & K56flex Access www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network http://www.bluemoon.net mud.bluemoon.net 4000 - MoonMUD bbs.bluemoon.net irc.bluemoon.net - XWorld Buffalo, NY IRC Server On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Chris Brandt wrote: > Note to Self.... > > North Philadelphia is not a good place to go railfanning. > > --CB > _________ > __\ _ /__ > --------\ | ) /----------------------------------------------- > ---------\ |}/|} /---------Chris Brandt--------------------------- > ----------\ |\ |\ /----------mailto:cobrandt@eclipse.net------------ > -----------\ | /-----------http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/------ > ------------\___/--------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:04:28 +0000 From: trainnut Subject: [PRR] Preferences Content-Length: 1155 Hello to all again, I was previously on this list and had downloaded all of my Pennsy goodies. I am back again after a short stint to N scale. I am planning to build up my collection of PRR items again from a fresh start. First I would like to try and nail down an era or year to model and am soliciting OPINIONS on what is the best to model. I like any diesel engine (Proto 2000 is my cup of tea) and I1s and M1s steam locos. I am also seeking out interesting branch line operations seeing as how I do not see having enough space for the 4-track "Broad Way" and am looking for suggestions in this area. I am more into freight than passenger operations, but do like a little passenger stuff. Thanks for your help and is good to be back on a more firm foundation. Jeremy Helms ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:57:32 -0400 From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: Re: [PRR] I1 tenders. Content-Length: 3286 Just thumbing through some issues of PC Railroader. On page 8 of the Jan-Feb 1975 issue is a picture of I1sa 4230. Also in the issue is a picture of 4315 with an ex-N&W tender(lettered Pennsylvania). Lots of other good stuff in the issue also. > > From: Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > > Subject: Re: [PRR] I1 tenders. > > Date: Tuesday, April 28, 1998 1:01 PM > > > > >Anyone got a confirmed shot of an I1 in the 1940s with a long tender? > > > > I looked long and hard, since I like those tenders, but to no avail. > There > > are, of course plenty of shots in the 50's with I1s with 210 tenders. It > > would appear that a more common locomotive with that tender would be the > > M1. Plenty of shots, beginning circa 1935, have the long tender. From a > > practical standpoint, long tenders weren't really needed in the helper > > sections where I1s worked, since they didn't stray to far from home. > > However, as steam waned, facilities became fewer and further seperated, > and > > the long tenders became very useful on the I1. > > > > BTW, is the Bowser 210 tender a new casting? I had heard that they were > > going to release a new casting for that tender... > > > > Happy Rails > > Bruce > > > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > > Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and > > Director, Nucleic Acid Services > > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > > **************************************************************************** > **** > > Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! > > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html > > _ _ > > / \ / \ > > ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ > > |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > > | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > > |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| > > | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Knepper" Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg infomation/??? Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:12:12 -0500 Content-Length: 1552 Jerry..........IT's A ( N6b ) not an N5b ! ---------- > From: Jerry > To: PRR-Talk > Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg infomation/??? > Date: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 5:19 AM > > On 4/28/98 8:16 PM, ELM2 (ELM2@aol.com) wrote: > > > I haven't been to Harrisburg in about 22 years but > >isn't > >there a GG-1 and an N-5B under the passenger shed at the Harrisburg Station ? > >How could any self respecting SPF miss these? Ed Martin :^) > > Yes, they are there, restored by the Harrisburg Chapter of the NRHS I > believe. > > ----------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton > "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > ----------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Liberty" Subject: [PRR] Fw: RR books for Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 16:42:01 -0400 Content-Length: 940 Here is a list of books that I got recently sent to me, if anyone is interested, reply to the original sender, as I have nothing to do with it ! Just though there might be something of use to some of you here !! Joe Zappa ---------- > From: SRapa46262 > To: liberty@infonline.net > Subject: Re: RR books for saleboundary="part0_893770032_boundary"boundary="part0_893858518_boundary" > Date: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 10:01 AM > > Hello, Joe, > > Here is another copy of the list. Thanks again for forwarding it! > > Regards, > > Ralph > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 17:26:28 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Preferences Content-Length: 941 In a message dated 98-04-29 14:10:40 EDT, Jeremy Helms writes: > I am also seeking out interesting branch line operations seeing as how I do > not see having enough space for the 4-track "Broad Way" and am looking for > suggestions in this area. I am more into freight than passenger > operations, but do like a little passenger stuff. Lewistown Branch in the Wilkes-Barr Division, 49.6 miles, 7 stations, 22 industries.. Bellefonte Branch in the Williamsport Division, 75.8 miles, 9 stations, 36 industries. to name a couple. Harold Modeling the Middle Division ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Preferences Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:13:56 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 2741 On 29 Apr, trainnut wrote: > I was previously on this list and had downloaded all of my Pennsy goodies. > I am back again after a short stint to N scale. I am planning to build up > my collection of PRR items again from a fresh start. Why did you dump N? I'm a PRR N Scaler, so I'm curious. > First I would like to try and nail down an era or year to model and am > soliciting OPINIONS on what is the best to model. I like any diesel engine > (Proto 2000 is my cup of tea) and I1s and M1s steam locos. Sounds like 1945-1955 (or when did I1s and M1s retire?). Some important events for modellers: 1952 freight car color changed; early 1954 shadow keystone introduced. Personally, I model September 5, 1954, the day I was born, so I get Circle Keystone in two colors, fresh shiny Shadow Keystone, Tuscan five-stripe passenger locos, heavy- and light-weight passenger cars, first-generation diesels for which decals are readily available. Fine N Scale now makes excellent X29, X31, and X32 boxcar models, so I'm all set. > I am also seeking out interesting branch line operations seeing as how I do > not see having enough space for the 4-track "Broad Way" and am looking for > suggestions in this area. I am more into freight than passenger > operations, but do like a little passenger stuff. How about the Cumberland Valley Branch, from Harrisburg (LEMO tower) to Hagerstown, where it interchanges with N&W; the Reids' layout represents part of this line, and the MA&PA interchange therein. Another thought is the Sunbury Branch (is that the right name?) which took off from the Northern Central (Buffalo Line) at Sunbury and went to Wilkes-Barre, where the PRR interchanged with the D&H (and got lots of New England freight traffic). This line will be the main NS-New England connection after Conrail is dissected. I'm sure that the Lines West folks have lots of similar branch-to-interchange instances; having a PRR main line at one end and an interchange at the other gives you lots of off-layout (ie, through) traffic. Do you have a preference for interchange partner? Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:16:22 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Preferences Content-Length: 1870 I'd be remiss if I didn't nominate the Elmira Branch, circa 1955 or 1956. Ran M1 and I1, diesels (that's why I suggest 1956), single track railroading with passing sidings, had a lot of coal traffic (you can simulate a lot of action with two trains of hoppers, one loaded for northbound traffic and the other empties for southbound), one major general freight train a day, one passenger train with a Pullman (into 1955), another local passenger train that was often only one car, an interesting mix of industries, and some neat branches. There was even a portion which featured trains pulled by NYC power. Plus, there is a good book about this line; and other information is available. For more info, see my description of the SB&S on Jerry's Keystone Crossings. This is the line I'm modeling in O scale. John Keel In a message dated 98-04-29 17:43:56 EDT, Hal6963@aol.com writes: << In a message dated 98-04-29 14:10:40 EDT, Jeremy Helms writes: > I am also seeking out interesting branch line operations seeing as how I do > not see having enough space for the 4-track "Broad Way" and am looking for > suggestions in this area. I am more into freight than passenger > operations, but do like a little passenger stuff. Lewistown Branch in the Wilkes-Barr Division, 49.6 miles, 7 stations, 22 industries.. Bellefonte Branch in the Williamsport Division, 75.8 miles, 9 stations, 36 industries. to name a couple. Harold Modeling the Middle Division >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 17:31:22 +0000 From: trainnut Subject: Re: [PRR] Preferences Content-Length: 4718 Dennis and all, Thanks for all your responses. I had actually gotten into N scale because we were trying to purchase a home that had a spare bedroom 10'x12' with 10' high ceilings. We dropped out of the deal before closing on it, had the finance and everything already lined up on it but something did not click on it. As for interchange, I currently do not have the space to model anything more than a run around track just below the ceiling in our dining room and I am going to build up a 1'x8' switching layout that can be set up and torn down. But for interchange partners I am also fond of the Southern Railway and the Lehigh Valley. I am young (only 27) and looking for inspiration for a railroad that totally disappeared before I was born. My preferences line up like yours. I do like the Circle Keystone, shadow Keystone, steam and diesel. I am also a fan of the trainphone antenna system (set PRR diesels apart from the rest). But the delimma also comes from being a fan of SD45s and SD40s and SD35s and the like. As I said I do like the steam, like the Bowser engines, not enough money to purchase brass. I have not decided on Lines East or West. The area I am looking at to study is so I can pick out the proper locomotives (I am pretty picky but not a rivet-counter) and rolling stock. I like the Elmira Branch but am also looking at other ideas. Like snapper operations and rolling hills with trees (currently in Nebraska but transplanted by the military, originally from Bedford, PA). Thanks for the help and any ideas that came or are coming. It is greatly appreciated. Jeremy Helms ---------- > From: Dennis Rockwell > To: PRR-Talk > Cc: trainnut > Subject: Re: [PRR] Preferences > Date: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 10:13 PM > > On 29 Apr, trainnut wrote: > > > I was previously on this list and had downloaded all of my Pennsy goodies. > > I am back again after a short stint to N scale. I am planning to build up > > my collection of PRR items again from a fresh start. > > Why did you dump N? I'm a PRR N Scaler, so I'm curious. > > > First I would like to try and nail down an era or year to model and am > > soliciting OPINIONS on what is the best to model. I like any diesel engine > > (Proto 2000 is my cup of tea) and I1s and M1s steam locos. > > Sounds like 1945-1955 (or when did I1s and M1s retire?). > Some important events for modellers: 1952 freight car color > changed; early 1954 shadow keystone introduced. Personally, > I model September 5, 1954, the day I was born, so I get > Circle Keystone in two colors, fresh shiny Shadow Keystone, > Tuscan five-stripe passenger locos, heavy- and light-weight > passenger cars, first-generation diesels for which decals > are readily available. Fine N Scale now makes excellent > X29, X31, and X32 boxcar models, so I'm all set. > > > I am also seeking out interesting branch line operations seeing as how I do > > not see having enough space for the 4-track "Broad Way" and am looking for > > suggestions in this area. I am more into freight than passenger > > operations, but do like a little passenger stuff. > > How about the Cumberland Valley Branch, from Harrisburg > (LEMO tower) to Hagerstown, where it interchanges with N&W; > the Reids' layout represents part of this line, and the > MA&PA interchange therein. > > Another thought is the Sunbury Branch (is that the right > name?) which took off from the Northern Central (Buffalo > Line) at Sunbury and went to Wilkes-Barre, where the PRR > interchanged with the D&H (and got lots of New England > freight traffic). This line will be the main NS-New England > connection after Conrail is dissected. > > I'm sure that the Lines West folks have lots of similar > branch-to-interchange instances; having a PRR main line at > one end and an interchange at the other gives you lots of > off-layout (ie, through) traffic. > > Do you have a preference for interchange partner? > > Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA > _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ > ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### > > I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] ALERT - PRRT&HS Convention Location Date: Wed, 29 Apr 98 20:01:39 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 847 I gave some directions to a few people -- Bruce Smith included -- to the PRRT&HS convention. However, I just learned that the Days Inn that it is at is not the one I was thinking of!!! >From Route 30, take Route 501 south to the second lite and turn right. Sorry! 8-) ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Preferences Date: Wed, 29 Apr 98 20:04:18 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 947 On 4/29/98 1:31 PM, trainnut (trainnut@internetMCI.com) wrote: >As for interchange, I currently do not have the space to model anything >more than a run around track just below the ceiling in our dining room and >I am going to build up a 1'x8' switching layout that can be set up and torn >down. Why not join PRRMO and build some modules? See http://prrmo.dsop.com ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:31:47 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Preferences Content-Length: 935 So, you'd llke to interchange with the Southern. Try the Cincinnati Division. The sinkgle-tracked main with passing sidings between Richmond and Cincinnati or Cincinnati and Xenia would be like operating a very busy branch with passenger traffic. Cincinnati was a prime interchange point between PRR and Southern, also the L&N, C&O, B&O, N&W and NYC. Modeling the Jeffersonville, Madison & Indianapolis between Indy and Louisville would be similar but there interchange would be Southern, L&N, Illinois Central, Monon and NYC. However much less passenger traffic. Tom V. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "D. Gabe Gabriel" Subject: [PRR] N scale GG1 Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 22:47:05 -0400 Content-Length: 1867 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0229_01BD73C0.BBA1CC60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Quite some time ago (1976 I believe), I purchased a German-made Rapido N = gauge GG1 (PRR red 4800) that has working pantographs (turn of a screw = to switch to catenary or rail power). Two questions.. haven't seen = much else on N gauge catenary power, is anyone running this? ..and can = anyone give me an idea of the curent value of this piece? Thanks Gabe ------=_NextPart_000_0229_01BD73C0.BBA1CC60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Quite some time ago (1976 I believe), I purchased a=20 German-made Rapido N gauge GG1 (PRR red 4800) that has working = pantographs (turn=20 of a screw to switch to catenary or rail power).  Two = questions.. =20 haven't seen much else on N gauge catenary power, is anyone running=20 this?   ..and can anyone give me an idea of the curent value = of this=20 piece?
Thanks
Gabe
------=_NextPart_000_0229_01BD73C0.BBA1CC60-- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Joe Gotaskie" Subject: Re: [PRR] I1 tenders. Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:17:09 -0400 Content-Length: 576 I think, The large tenders may have been added when the locomotives where converted to class I1sa. This is not meant to mean that all that where converted to this sub class received the large tender, just some. Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:47:05 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Preferences Content-Length: 932 << In a message dated 98-04-29 14:10:40 EDT, Jeremy Helms writes: > I am also seeking out interesting branch line operations seeing as how I do > not see having enough space for the 4-track "Broad Way" and am looking for > suggestions in this area. I am more into freight than passenger > operations, but do like a little passenger stuff. >> There is the Grand Rapids Division and the Delmarva line, about which there was a thread a few months ago. And of course you could model Lines West in general. There are "some" hills and tunnels. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 09:13:11 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Preferences Content-Length: 626 In a message dated 98-04-30 08:47:05 EDT, I wrote: << There is the Grand Rapids Division and the Delmarva line, about which there was a thread a few months ago. >> Sorry, Jeremy, I forgot you wanted I1s and M1s. If so, those lines are out. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:16:44 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: Re: [PRR] Preferences Content-Length: 2230 Greetings to Jeremy and the group, Have I got the branch for you. The Bald Eagle Branch from Lock Haven, PA, to Tyrone, PA, has "model me" written all over it. It was a (It is being used its entire lenth once again for Conrail's Strawberry Ridge trains,though now by trackage rights.) 54 miles long single track with passing sidings CTC controlled (after the mid 40s) line that had regular passenger service to about 1950. This line had fast freights and a lot of coal. When there was a problem on the main line, passenger trains would be routed over the Bald Eagle Branch then through Lock Haven, Williamsport, Northumberlund and on to Harrisburg to meet back up with the main line. So you could run the Broadway Limited on it and be prototypically correct! The line served the role of a bridge route for the PRR for the movement of freight from the west to New England. Depending how you modeled it, you could include a portion of PRR's "Broad Way" at Tyrone and a bit of the Northern Division Main Line at Lock Haven. If pressed for space, you could model just the Tyrone end or the Lock Haven end. Both ends had large sprawling paper mills to switch. Westvaco at Tyrone and NyPenn/Hammermill (now International Paper) at Lock Haven. Switiching opportunities abounded at Tyrone, Mill Hall and Lock Haven with other switching along the line. An interchange with the NYC occured just west of Mill Hall. I would be interested in what you eventually decide to model. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA In a message dated 98-04-29 14:10:40 EDT, Jeremy Helms writes: > I am also seeking out interesting branch line operations seeing as how I do > not see having enough space for the 4-track "Broad Way" and am looking for > suggestions in this area. I am more into freight than passenger > operations, but do like a little passenger stuff. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] N scale GG1 Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 10:19:05 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 1586 Pssttt! We don't need HTML email here. Lots of folks can't read it. Yes, I *know* that the Microsoft mailer you're using does it by default. That doesn't make it right. It also makes your postings three times longer than they need to be. On 29 Apr, "D. Gabe Gabriel" wrote: > Quite some time ago (1976 I believe), I purchased a German-made Rapido N > gauge GG1 (PRR red 4800) that has working pantographs (turn of a screw > to switch to catenary or rail power). Two questions.. haven't seen > much else on N gauge catenary power, is anyone running this? ..and can > anyone give me an idea of the curent value of this piece? First of all, check out the NCat folks, who do live catenary on NTrak modules and offer lots of advice: http://www.mindspring.com/~team_savage/ncat.html My GG1 ran on such a module at the NMRA national convention here in Boston several years ago. Second, after Rivarossi bought Rapido they reissued this model, and the local price for a new model is $118-128, depending on the paint scheme (or maybe the price changed during the run). Used GG1s were very hard to come by for many years, but when you could find one, the show price tended to be $80-$100. Dennis ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Final Convention Forecase Date: Thu, 30 Apr 98 10:40:18 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 967 Final forecast for the convention: It's heavy overcast at present. Rained this morning and more is due. High today of 70. Friday: Scattered thunderstorms, high 66 Saturday: Showers/Sun, high 64 Sunday: Showers/Sun, high 65 Hope the vendor's room is full of goodies and the in-house restaurant is good! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale: http://prr.dsop.com/layout/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:38:36 +0000 From: trainnut Subject: [PRR] Bald Eagle Branch Content-Length: 2298 Hello to all, Does anyone have anymore info or books that I could find out more info on the Bald Eagle Branch? Looking for motive power, trains, schedules for somewhere probably between 1952-1956. And the big questions: any I1 and/or M1 steam, F units, RSs, Baldwins? Was this only for 4 axle power or was 6 axle power also used? Thanks for any help. Jeremy Helms (A renewed SPF!!) > Have I got the branch for you. The Bald Eagle Branch from Lock Haven, PA, to > Tyrone, PA, has "model me" written all over it. It was a (It is being used > its entire lenth once again for Conrail's Strawberry Ridge trains,though now > by trackage rights.) 54 miles long single track with passing sidings CTC > controlled (after the mid 40s) line that had regular passenger service to > about 1950. This line had fast freights and a lot of coal. When there was a > problem on the main line, passenger trains would be routed over the Bald > Eagle Branch then through Lock Haven, Williamsport, Northumberlund and on to > Harrisburg to meet back up with the main line. So you could run the Broadway > Limited on it and be prototypically correct! > > The line served the role of a bridge route for the PRR for the movement of > freight from the west to New England. Depending how you modeled it, you > could include a portion of PRR's "Broad Way" at Tyrone and a bit of the > Northern Division Main Line at Lock Haven. If pressed for space, you could > model just the Tyrone end or the Lock Haven end. Both ends had large > sprawling paper mills to switch. Westvaco at Tyrone and NyPenn/Hammermill > (now International Paper) at Lock Haven. Switiching opportunities abounded > at Tyrone, Mill Hall and Lock Haven with other switching along the line. An > interchange with the NYC occured just west of Mill Hall. I would be > interested in what you eventually decide to model. > > Drew R. McGhee > Altoona, PA ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:17:49 -0400 From: mxb13@psu.edu (Michael Bezilla) Subject: Re: [PRR] Bald Eagle Branch Content-Length: 1464 >Does anyone have anymore info or books that I could find out more info on >the Bald Eagle Branch? Looking for motive power, trains, schedules for >somewhere probably between 1952-1956. And the big questions: any I1 and/or >M1 steam, F units, RSs, Baldwins? Was this only for 4 axle power or was 6 >axle power also used? Although in typical PRR fashion this was a "branch," the reality was that it was maintained to main line standards, thus in diesel years six axle power was common. Also, as the Baldwin centipedes neared their retirement, they were used as pushers for eastbounds on the 1 percent from Vail to Dix. Steam days saw the usual mix of 4-8-2's, 2-10-0's, 2-8-2's and K4's, among others. It is said by oldtimers that newly outshopped power often tested on the branch, including the T1, Q2, S1 and S2. CSB7 and CSB8 were the merchandise hotshots. Published photos of trains on the branch, except at the extreme Tyrone and Lock Haven ends, are in my experience just about nil. Don't know why. See the Bald Eagle branch page on Jerry's Keystone Crossings website. Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:29:56 -0500 From: "Laird, Bill (GWise)" Subject: [PRR] Altoona RR Museum Grand Opening Content-Length: 643 Date: 04/30/1998 07:28 pm (Thursday) From: Bill Laird To: INET.MAIL:"prr-talk@dsop.com" Subject: Altoona RR Museum Grand Opening Did anyone on the list attend the Altoona Railroad Museum grand opening last weekend? If so, how about a report? Bill Laird Houston, Texas ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Bald Eagle Branch Modeling Date: Thu, 30 Apr 98 14:43:14 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1879 For Jeremy and the group: There was an issue of Rails Northeast which contained an article on the implementation of CTC on the Bald Eagle Branch. Contained complete schematic with signal info. I'll try to locate it. If it weren't for the fact that York is so interesting and is in my backyard, I'd probably model this branch instead of the Northern Central Railway. Having limited space, it would be easy to have a four-track concealed oval circling the room to represent the "main line". It would then be exposed only at Tyrone, where it meets the Bald Eagle Branch, which would be built on top of the hidden loop. This would simulate lots of mainline through traffic while the branch is the focal point of operations. (See the Pierson layout description on Keystone Crossings to see how this was done with a scene at Port Royal and the Denholm coal wharf.) Besides the Bald Eagle Branch history on Keystone Crossings (Hobo's Guide), you should also check out the Bellefonte Historical Railroad Society which is linked via KC's Real Railroads link. It contains info about portions of a predecessor line which became the Bald Eagle Branch. Also, it provided interchange to the next valley. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! Building the Northern Central Branch of the PRR in HO scale: http://prr.dsop.com/layout/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:27:02 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] Bald Eagle Branch Modeling Content-Length: 632 Jerry_Britton wrote: > > There was an issue of Rails Northeast which contained an article on the > implementation of CTC on the Bald Eagle Branch. Contained complete > schematic with signal info. It was in the May, 1979, "Rails Northeast," pp. 29-35. Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Liberty" Subject: [PRR] Here's the book list..... Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:00:18 -0400 Content-Length: 2545 I don't know what hapeened to the list when I originally posted (forwarded) it, but here it is: Ralph E. Rapa 5200 Lake Loop Rd. e-mail - SRapa46262@aol.com Cooper City, FL. 33330 (954) 252- 0455 All items in 'Like New' or Better Condition !! All prices INCLUDE shipping in the Continental US Check or money order must be recv'd prior to shipment. HB= hardback PB= paperback M= magazine $ 20 Items 3 vol. boxed set- History of the B&O, NYC & Pennsy -HB Railways of the World, B. Hollingsworth -HB Steam Trains, A World Portrait, Collin Garratt - HB $ 15 Items Yonder Comes the Train, by Phillips -HB Railways, by C. Hamilton - HB The Trains We Rode, by Bebe and Clegg -HB American Heritage History of Railroads in America -HB Steam Railways of the World, by P. Whithouse -HB The Spirit of Steam, by W.L. Withuhn -HB London and Its Railways, R. Davies / M.D. Grant -HB Creative Model Railroad Design, by J. Armstrong - PB Robinson Locomotives -HB London Midland Steam -HB Traction Handbook for Model Railroaders -PB The Model Railroaders Catalog - PB The Encycl. of Trains & Loco's - HB The Lore of the Train, -HB The Pictorial History of Railroads, by J. Westwood -HB The World Steam Train Album - J. Westwood -HB $ 12 Items North Amer.'s Great Railroads, by York -HB All Aboard, The Golden Age of American Rail Travel -HB How to Build Realistic Model RR Scenery - PB Railway Express Agency, an Overview - PB 6 HO Railroads You Can Build -New ed. -Kalmbach - PB 48 Top Notch Plans from MR -PB Numerous other track and layout books, scenery books at $ 8.00 and below. Railway Modeler, British -numerous back issues $ 2.50 @ Great Model Railroads, '95, '96, '97, '98 - $ 1.00 @ Model RR Planning '95, '96, '97 - $ 1.00 @ e-mail if you have any questions (to Ralph) !! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:38:27 -0500 From: jlevine@mcls.rochester.lib.ny.us Subject: Re: [PRR] Preferences Content-Length: 768 Concerning passenger service into Lock Haven. Although I was only 10 at the time, I remember going to the Lock Have Passenger Station with my Father to pick up my Aunt and Uncle who were coming in from N.Y.C. My only recolection of the station was that it needed major repairs. I would, therefore, have to assume that passenger service on the Bald Eagle Brance lasted much beyond 1950. Jeff Levine ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:07:29 -0400 From: "R. Vogel" Subject: [PRR] GG1 Paint Schemes Content-Length: 1292 With the recent discussion about paint schemes for a restored GG1 in mind I took a look at the IHC ad for GG1's in Model Railroader. They list 20 versions including the successor roads. Many of them I'm not familiar with and was wondering if any of you have seen these in the prototype or can offer an explanation. [ I'm not about to buy any of these - this is pure curiosity] Black Jack? Bloody Nose? Penn Central -RFK Funeral - Good I imagine if you are modeling a specific day or so in 1968. What did this look like? How long before it was repainted? Spirit of 76 - 2 versions. Were these AMTRAK or CONRAIL? [On the Boston MBTA Green line - 2 PCC cars were painted for the bicentennial so this doesn't seem farfetched.] Washington DC Crash. Lots of scratches? Torch marks from where it was cut up? Or was it done by Earl Sheib? Dark Green stripe version. Is this IHC for DGLE? -Bob Vogel ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:30:43 -0400 From: Kent Loudon Subject: [PRR] PRR-Talk: GG1 Restoration Content-Length: 524 Would converting a GG1 to operate on 60 cycle power be equivalent to converting a K4 to burn propane ? - Kent Loudon, Somerville, NJ 22:53 29-Apr-98 via OzWin 2.20 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:39:58 -0500 From: Andy Cich Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1 Paint Schemes Content-Length: 1018 R. Vogel wrote: > > With the recent discussion about paint schemes for a restored GG1 in > mind I took a look at the IHC ad for GG1's in Model Railroader. They > list 20 versions including the successor roads. Many of them I'm not > familiar with and was wondering if any of you have seen these in the > prototype or can offer an explanation. [ I'm not about to buy any of > these - this is pure curiosity] > > Washington DC Crash. Lots of scratches? Torch marks from where it was > cut up? Or > was it done by Earl Sheib? > I have this model, and it is painted as it appeared 200 ft prior to entering the baggage room. Andy C. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:09:54 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR-Talk: GG1 Restoration Content-Length: 904 Kent Loudon wrote: > > Would converting a GG1 to operate on 60 cycle power be equivalent to > converting a K4 to burn propane ? > More like converting it to burn anthracite (hard coal). Perhaps a wide, Wooten firebox, cab straddling the middle of the boiler, a plate with vestigial roof for the fireman, and a subsequent ICC ban on operation somewhere around 30-40 years ago. As bad as a warbonnet GG1. :-) Actually, running it on 60 cycle power would have quite an effect on the hum it made while starting. Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:23:27 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1 Paint Schemes Content-Length: 591 Andy Cich wrote: > > I have this model, and it is painted as it appeared 200 ft prior to > entering the baggage room. > That would be with red hot wheels and brake shoes, and burned-out traction motors. Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:40:57 -0400 From: Kent Loudon Subject: Re: [PRR] Preferences Content-Length: 1236 In a message dated 98-04-29 14:10:40 EDT, Jeremy Helms writes: > I am also seeking out interesting branch line operations seeing as how I do > not see having enough space for the 4-track "Broad Way" and am looking for > suggestions in this area. I am more into freight than passenger > operations, but do like a little passenger stuff. << If you preferred passenger, the Princeton Jct - Princeton "Dinky" would be ideal. You could probably fit the entire line to scale in a mobile home ! Of course, you would have to be satisfied with watching a single MP54 shuttling back and forth. You COULD model it with double track (1950's) and stage some Princeton football specials on the main line. No good, huh ? Well, there WAS a freight house and team track in downtown Princeton at one time. - Kent Loudon, Somerville, NJ 20:48 30-Apr-98 via OzWin 2.20 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://prr.dsop.com/forms/spf/index.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!!