Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 09:34:30 -0500 From: "Larry P. Morgan" Subject: [O-HiRail] Golden State Passenger Train Content-Length: 1554 The GOLDEN STATE was appareently a PRR to Rock Island to Southern Pacific combined effort launched in 1947 and became coast-to-coast pullman service. I would be interested in learning more, if anyone would know and like to share. For instance, it would be logical for a NY to Chicago to ST. Lous to Los Angles routing, but that may not be what happened. I would also like to know how long it lasted. For any O Gaugers out here, K-Line has a good deal on their Collectors Club involving the GOLDEN STATE. There are many options, but most include a passenger and a freight car for $50 - $85 per year. You can get an 18 inch true scale extruded aluminum all metal car, or the 13.5 inch 027 version. Of course they are also selling additonal items. A K4 is planned for 2001, and extra cars are available this year. If you want more information, I will be glad to forward what I have. Please reply directly to me. Please publish any prototypical information about the GOLDEN STATE to PRR-TALK. This was the same type of thing that started the FLEET OF MODERNISM thread a year or so ago. K-Line has apparently done some practical research. I wish they would publish more information with the special collector's club trains. -- Larry Morgan lpmorgan@iquest.net Greenfield, IN (near Indianapolis) TCA/TTOS/PRRT&HS ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 11:05:27 EST Subject: Re: [O-HiRail] Golden State Passenger Train Content-Length: 431 Hey Yuze Gize, I can not think of a good reason why you would go the Chicago first and then to St Louis if you were headed to Los Angeles. But if it would have made sense Pennsy would have done it. Greg Martin ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 10:22:00 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: Intermountain Kits Content-Length: 2150 George, I concur with most of what has already been said about adding grabs to detailed decorated kits (Intermountain, LL P2K, Red Caboose) , but in brief: 1) I use ACC (super glue), spotted onto a piece of glass, and applied with a pin in a pin vise 2) I try to glue from the back side, BUT in some cases, like LL P2K and Intermountain Tank cars, you are better off adding grabs AFTER assembly, so they must be glued from the outside. 3) I ALWAYS drill out the holes first 4) If you do get a little ACC on the outside of the model, DON'T panic! Just let it dry, and overspray with flat finish - and its GONE! (Tenax and Testors may disolve the finish and soften the plastic, which is why I never use them for this) 5) My local hobby shop will not stock Intermountain, and is probably going to drop LL P2K, and Red Caboose because I'm one of the only people who will buy the kits - apparently, the owner gets a lot of complaints that they are TOO DIFFICULT - Pshaw! It takes me about two hours of very pleasurable time to assemble any one of these kits. Happy Gluing Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 11:57:48 EST Subject: Re: Fw: Atlas & Ageing PRR fans Content-Length: 1614 In a message dated 98-02-28 17:34:58 EST, Carl P Izzo writes : << What these pinheads don't realize, it is the ageing PRR fans who have the > money to spend on their hobbies. When I was young, the kids always needed > shoes. >> Amen! Not to brag (well, maybe a little), but I paid for 5 college educations, 5 weddings, and 3 orthodenture bills before I exceeded $1000 cumulative in MRR expenditures. But since then I have averaged $2500/year in purchases. Bought a fleet of Red Caboose X29s and Bowser H21s, and am picking up my ABA P2K E7s this week. Can't wait for Bowser T1 and Stewart VO1000. And ,yes, having bought a half dozen DCC decoders to operate on the club, my starter kit for home use is next on the agenda. Please forgive following off-topic rambling: For those of you with young kids, there is hope! And I don't regret spending more time coaching little league than model railroading in the early days. It turned out my sons in particular were not interested in models-only sports. My daughters, OTOH, liked trains and their sons love them, so grandpa takes them to the club every chance I get. BTW, I don't think everyone should continue this thread with dollar amounts, for security reasons. However, I live in a very secure area (not in prison!) and bulk of collection is stored elsewhere, so I feel safe in this transmission. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 12:38:46 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: Fw: Atlas & Ageing PRR fans Content-Length: 1635 > > I think your Atlas rep has a problem, or his company is run by pinheads! > > I am 65 and have been in HO Scale since 1947. In the past 6 months, I've > > spent about $1,500.00 on my Model railroad. Included in my purchases are > an > > ABBA set of PA's and an ABBA set of E7's, an S.2, a C.1, and numerous > > hoppers and box cars, all lettered for PRR. None of these were > > manufactured by Atlas. I will probably spend and additional $1,500.00 to > > $2,000.00 in the next 6 months. I am going into DCC. Likewise, I see that I have spent probably $3k in the last 18 months, maybe more, on items which were probably 80% Pennsy locos. In the near future, a pair of DGLE E7's, a C628, VO1000, an SD45, one or two sets of passenger Sharks, an RS2, all of these are on my list. If Atlas reintroduced their GP7 or did their S1 or S3 in PRR colors I'd be there in a flash. > > What these pinheads don't realize, it is the ageing PRR fans who have the > > money to spend on their hobbies. When I was young, the kids always > needed > > shoes. I agree (but since I have no kids, I *am* an aging fan... at 25!). When I was 20 I owned no Atlas locos or cars; Since then I've picked up at least one of every Pennsy loco they made save one, and that one I cannot find at all! These are cherished models, obviously, by their lack of availability. *Someone* other than me is buying them. -D ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:21:56 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: [HO] P2K tuscan E7's Content-Length: 451 Hi, If any of you have been having trouble finding those Life-Like Proto 2000 E7's (the Tuscan ones) Al's Hobby in Elmhurst, IL had at least one when I was through the other day; I should have the phone number if anyone cares. -D ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:51:27 EST Subject: Re: [O-HiRail] Golden State Passenger Train Content-Length: 3461 In a message dated 98-03-01 09:57:54 EST, Larry Morgan writes: << The GOLDEN STATE was appareently a PRR to Rock Island to Southern Pacific combined effort launched in 1947 and became coast-to-coast pullman service. I would be interested in learning more, if anyone would know and like to share. For instance, it would be logical for a NY to Chicago to ST. Lous to Los Angles routing, but that may not be what happened. I would also like to know how long it lasted. >> The Golden State was the Rock Island's premier West Coast train (joint with the Southern Pacific) from Chicago to the West Coast, beginning as the Golden State Limited in 1902. I don't know if the train made it all the way to Amrtrak in 1971, but you could check the Rock Island historical society on the web if that was important to you.. For the lightweight train, a through sleeping car via the Pennsylvania RR (don't know about the NYC) ran every other day to New York from 1946 to 1951. To my knowledge (see how cautious I am getting?) connections were always through Chicago. The PRRT&HS Passenger Car and Lettering Guide describes the service, the cars (4 compartment, 4 double bedroom, 2 bedroom) , and the paint schemes on page 88. Briefly, the cars, Imperial Range and Imperial Terrace, started out two-tone gray for two years, were Daylight Red and silver for three, and then repainted two-tone gray for other service for two, before beng repainted in tuscan red in 1953. The car shown in the photo in the Guide has no skirts or has had the skirts removed. The through cars in this service at least started out with full skirting. Rock Island-SP contributed cars as well. I assume about four cars. Two were named Golden Fleece and Golden Cavern That book gives the Golden Arrow as the connecting train at that time and a video (Pennsy glory years, vol 3?)shows the car in that train in the late 40's behind a sharknose diesel, BP-20, near Chicago. That same video shows one of the cars in another train at Englewood. That train also includes a two-tone gray heavyweight and other Pullman green cars. It could have been the Pennsylvania Limited which carried Burlington and Overland cars for San Francisco and the Golden State and a C&NW-UP car for Los Angeles in 1951. Why the other cars were heavyweights (traffic requirements?) or why they would all appear the same day (all except the C&NW-UP car ran alternate days) is a good question. In 1950, the cars were listed in the General both ways, on alternate days. A photo in Don Ball's color Pennsylvania Railroad 1940-1950 book (page 149) shows 2 Golden State cars ahead of the observation car on the Admiral on the Curve. I assume traffic was heavy that day. In HO, MIcroscale decals are 87-122, but the Imperial Range and Imperial Terrace names are not included. I personally have an Eastern Car Works 4-4-2 and the decals to do the car (project No. 197). BTW, it is hard to tell the color of the end from photos. Original cars had full width diaphragms which were painted two-tone on the sides. Best I can tell from photos after removal of the full-width diaphragms, the entire end was painted Daylight red. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 20:59:26 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: Golden State Passenger Train Content-Length: 2395 Greetings to Larry and the list: Here's the briefest of histories of the Golden State passenger train as it relates to the PRR. There were so many variations and permutations of these transcontinental sleeper operations that it would take a small book to document them, but here's a synopsis: American railroads started operating through transcontinental sleeping-car connections in the spring of 1946. On the eastern end of the country, PRR, B&O and NYC did the honors, with the terminating/originating points being New York or Washington, and the West Coast points being San Francisco or L.A., all via Chicago. The same eastern roads also operated a smaller number of Texas/Oklahoma-bound sleepers via St. Louis, connecting with MKT/Frisco/MP. Depending on market, equipment availability, season, and schedule of connecting trains, through sleeping cars ran daily or every other day. At Chicago, PRR trains forwarded sleepers to Santa Fe, Chicago & North Western (for connection with Union Pacific), Burlington (for connection with Rio Grande/Western Pacific; this became the California Zephyr connection when that train began running in 1949), and Rock Island (for connection with Southern Pacific). The Rock Island connection was with the Golden State, an extra-fare train that was operated by SP between Tucumcari, N.M., and L.A. While some of these sleepers continued to run for several years (most were quietly killed in late 1957), the PRR-Golden State through car was discontinued much earlier, in the early summer of 1951. Rock Island continued to run the Golden State, without a connecting car, until finally discontinuing it in the mid-1960s, several years before the coming of Amtrak in 1971. The PRR trains that connected to/from the Golden State did not stay the same from year to year. This is an incomplete list: In 1946, the PRR connection westbound was No. 89, the Golden Arrow, and eastbound it was No. 48, the General. In 1949, it was the Pennsylvanian westbound (79) and the Admiral eastbound (70). In 1951, it was the General in both directions (48/49). Hope this helps. Dan Cupper cupper@ibm.net Romans 10:9-10 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Intermountain Kits Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 21:33:13 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 1427 On 1 Mar, "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." wrote: > 5) My local hobby shop will not stock Intermountain, and is probably going > to drop LL P2K, and Red Caboose because I'm one of the only people who will > buy the kits - apparently, the owner gets a lot of complaints that they are > TOO DIFFICULT - Pshaw! It takes me about two hours of very pleasurable > time to assemble any one of these kits. Offer to hold clinics at this shop on building the kits! Hold it at the busiest time (Saturday, probably); all you should need is a card-table-sized space (display counter?), plus room for the customers. Be prepared to answer the same questions again and again as fresh customers arrive. Focus on the right tools and techniques. The shop sells the tools, cement, and paint, right? I used the spare grabs from the third and fourth kit to finish the first two, but now I have plenty, and I'm using them to superdetail MT and Atlas boxcars. Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 21:35:47 EST Subject: Re: Fw: Atlas & Ageing PRR fans Content-Length: 517 Bob, I admire you for your endeavor to be an SPF. Anfd I love the part that tells me you are passing the hobby into the next generation. I am 42 and a 3rd generation modeler and it was someone just like you Bob that passed that on to me . To you sir I take my hat off. BULLY!!!! Greg Martin ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Atlas & aging PRR fans? Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 21:51:23 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 1698 On 27 Feb, TGREGMRTN wrote: > Perhaps the market is waning for Atlas, but not for other producers, ask > RED CABOOSE. I would have to say that perhaps it is the offerings that they > put on the table that is drying up. I'm a SPF and I'm 42 soon to be 43. But > my next article for Mainline will be a Pennsy offering and what we Pennsy > modelers have to go through to make their (Atlas) offerings correct for > Pennsy. Their market may be off but they can make it better. In N Scale, Atlas' PRR products are an interesting mix of dead-accurate paint jobs on non-PRR cars (PS-1 painted X29, etc). That's why they don't get more of my money. I can see their point; they only want to make things they can put a dozen paint schemes on, and PRR built too many of its own unique cars. Thankfully, we have Fine N Scale making X29, X31 and X32 boxcars, all beautiful models. I do wish he'd make Pennsy roofs for applying to other models! The Intermountain 50' DD boxcars would make a better X38 if they had the right roof (didn't stop me from buying them). Dead-on paint scheme (Automobile Circle Keystone), except that they marked it X38B. BTW, I'm a 43-year-old SPF, modelling the year of my birth. Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Huber25 Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 22:35:35 EST Subject: Z-62 business cars Content-Length: 473 I need help with modeling the Pennsy Z-62 business cars. When were they used, where were they used and most importantly....what names and numbers were used on them. I understand there were 7 cars but that's about all I have on them. Any help out there? Roger ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 02 Mar 98 09:44:19 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: Re: Towers Content-Length: 1628 Were there any two Pennsy towers that were alike? They all seemed to be unique in their construction, in some way. Was there a 'standard' tower design, or designs, for 'modern', wood construction machine-interlocked towers? LInes West guys: were things more standardized out west? Or even less so, than Lines East? Perhaps AMB might include in the instructions photos of towers their kit would be 'close' to, in order to detail it/kitbash it into an accurate replica of a specific installation. At least someone is working on a kit for one. Did Quality-Craft or Gloor-Craft offer a model of one, at one time? -- Doug Drew TGREGMRTN wrote: >Bob, > American Model Builders is working on it. It is not done yet. I have had >several conversations on which tower to do. I do not believe they have come to >a concrete committment yet. But we will have a Pennsy HO Scale Tower that >SPEAKS OF PENNSY. I know the owner personally and we talk all the time. I >have suggested he does not pattern it after any particular tower, but it must >be "typically Pennsy". Care to share your comments I realize I might take some >heat on this, but my shoulders are broad. > Greg Martin > >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 02 Mar 98 10:03:53 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: RE: PRR credit card guy (was legal standing of PRR emblem) Content-Length: 736 First I've heard of this -- what is it, a supposed credit card with a PRR keystone on it? What's the scam? -- Doug Drew cschlund wrote: >Hi Dan & list members, > >The PRR credit card guy is still around, he was working the front entrance >of the San Francisco (Cow Palace) GATS show. Given what I had heard about >all this on the list, I gave him & his booth a wide berth. > > - Claus Schlund (Shop Foreman, Bernal Heights Car & Foundry) > Modeling steam-era PRR in N scale > San Francisco, CA ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 10:32:42 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: Towers Content-Length: 732 Doug Drew wrote: (Referring to PRR Interlocking Towers) > > At least someone is working on a kit for one. Did Quality-Craft or > Gloor-Craft offer a model of one, at one time? > -- Doug Drew > Doug, Quality Craft produced a kit that they claimed was based on the Jack's Run tower, in both O (and HO?). I think they are still produced by Gloor Craft. Various reviews, in The Keystone and elsewhere, pointed out a few correctible discrepancies, but they definitely have the PRR look. Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Atlas & aging PRR fans? Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 10:50:49 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 998 On 1 Mar, Dennis Rockwell wrote: > In N Scale, Atlas' PRR products are an interesting mix of > dead-accurate paint jobs on non-PRR cars (PS-1 painted X29, > etc). I just realized that I should amend my own posting. Atlas' 40' plug-door box (33211) is a dead-on match (number and all) for a car in Color Guide Vol 1, as is one of the two-bay covered hoppers (can't remember which offhand). I didn't mean to ignore the excellent PRR matches that Atlas does make. They're just after my era, so I tend to forget them. Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 98 09:03:19 CST Subject: Re: Towers Content-Length: 1587 On 02 Mar 98 09:44:19 -0500, Doug Drew wrote: >Were there any two Pennsy towers that were alike? They all seemed to be >unique in their construction, in some way. Was there a 'standard' tower >design, or designs, for 'modern', wood construction machine-interlocked >towers? Hi, all, I cannot speak with certainty here but I too have the same impression - that individual towers had a "family resemblance" but were not exact duplicates. The Middle Div., which I know best, is a case in point. >At least someone is working on a kit for one. Did Quality-Craft or >Gloor-Craft offer a model of one, at one time? Yes, this was a wood kit based on JACKS tower in Jacks Narrows east of Lewistown. A nice kit - I have two of them. What would be great would be to have these manufacturers sell their detail parts for these towers separately. In my case, I'm modeling the towers which controlled each end of the trackage at Denholm (west of Mifflin,PA) where the huge coal wharf was. Each was similar to JACKS, esp. in the details like the wiondows, molding, etc. Thus I'm using the Gloorcraft kits and adding material to make the two larger towers which I need. It's the details which give it the PRR look. PRR forever, Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 09:34:30 -0500 From: "Larry P. Morgan" Subject: [O-HiRail] Golden State Passenger Train Content-Length: 1554 The GOLDEN STATE was appareently a PRR to Rock Island to Southern Pacific combined effort launched in 1947 and became coast-to-coast pullman service. I would be interested in learning more, if anyone would know and like to share. For instance, it would be logical for a NY to Chicago to ST. Lous to Los Angles routing, but that may not be what happened. I would also like to know how long it lasted. For any O Gaugers out here, K-Line has a good deal on their Collectors Club involving the GOLDEN STATE. There are many options, but most include a passenger and a freight car for $50 - $85 per year. You can get an 18 inch true scale extruded aluminum all metal car, or the 13.5 inch 027 version. Of course they are also selling additonal items. A K4 is planned for 2001, and extra cars are available this year. If you want more information, I will be glad to forward what I have. Please reply directly to me. Please publish any prototypical information about the GOLDEN STATE to PRR-TALK. This was the same type of thing that started the FLEET OF MODERNISM thread a year or so ago. K-Line has apparently done some practical research. I wish they would publish more information with the special collector's club trains. -- Larry Morgan lpmorgan@iquest.net Greenfield, IN (near Indianapolis) TCA/TTOS/PRRT&HS ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 11:05:27 EST Subject: Re: [O-HiRail] Golden State Passenger Train Content-Length: 431 Hey Yuze Gize, I can not think of a good reason why you would go the Chicago first and then to St Louis if you were headed to Los Angeles. But if it would have made sense Pennsy would have done it. Greg Martin ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 10:22:00 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: Intermountain Kits Content-Length: 2150 George, I concur with most of what has already been said about adding grabs to detailed decorated kits (Intermountain, LL P2K, Red Caboose) , but in brief: 1) I use ACC (super glue), spotted onto a piece of glass, and applied with a pin in a pin vise 2) I try to glue from the back side, BUT in some cases, like LL P2K and Intermountain Tank cars, you are better off adding grabs AFTER assembly, so they must be glued from the outside. 3) I ALWAYS drill out the holes first 4) If you do get a little ACC on the outside of the model, DON'T panic! Just let it dry, and overspray with flat finish - and its GONE! (Tenax and Testors may disolve the finish and soften the plastic, which is why I never use them for this) 5) My local hobby shop will not stock Intermountain, and is probably going to drop LL P2K, and Red Caboose because I'm one of the only people who will buy the kits - apparently, the owner gets a lot of complaints that they are TOO DIFFICULT - Pshaw! It takes me about two hours of very pleasurable time to assemble any one of these kits. Happy Gluing Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 11:57:48 EST Subject: Re: Fw: Atlas & Ageing PRR fans Content-Length: 1614 In a message dated 98-02-28 17:34:58 EST, Carl P Izzo writes : << What these pinheads don't realize, it is the ageing PRR fans who have the > money to spend on their hobbies. When I was young, the kids always needed > shoes. >> Amen! Not to brag (well, maybe a little), but I paid for 5 college educations, 5 weddings, and 3 orthodenture bills before I exceeded $1000 cumulative in MRR expenditures. But since then I have averaged $2500/year in purchases. Bought a fleet of Red Caboose X29s and Bowser H21s, and am picking up my ABA P2K E7s this week. Can't wait for Bowser T1 and Stewart VO1000. And ,yes, having bought a half dozen DCC decoders to operate on the club, my starter kit for home use is next on the agenda. Please forgive following off-topic rambling: For those of you with young kids, there is hope! And I don't regret spending more time coaching little league than model railroading in the early days. It turned out my sons in particular were not interested in models-only sports. My daughters, OTOH, liked trains and their sons love them, so grandpa takes them to the club every chance I get. BTW, I don't think everyone should continue this thread with dollar amounts, for security reasons. However, I live in a very secure area (not in prison!) and bulk of collection is stored elsewhere, so I feel safe in this transmission. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 12:38:46 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: Fw: Atlas & Ageing PRR fans Content-Length: 1635 > > I think your Atlas rep has a problem, or his company is run by pinheads! > > I am 65 and have been in HO Scale since 1947. In the past 6 months, I've > > spent about $1,500.00 on my Model railroad. Included in my purchases are > an > > ABBA set of PA's and an ABBA set of E7's, an S.2, a C.1, and numerous > > hoppers and box cars, all lettered for PRR. None of these were > > manufactured by Atlas. I will probably spend and additional $1,500.00 to > > $2,000.00 in the next 6 months. I am going into DCC. Likewise, I see that I have spent probably $3k in the last 18 months, maybe more, on items which were probably 80% Pennsy locos. In the near future, a pair of DGLE E7's, a C628, VO1000, an SD45, one or two sets of passenger Sharks, an RS2, all of these are on my list. If Atlas reintroduced their GP7 or did their S1 or S3 in PRR colors I'd be there in a flash. > > What these pinheads don't realize, it is the ageing PRR fans who have the > > money to spend on their hobbies. When I was young, the kids always > needed > > shoes. I agree (but since I have no kids, I *am* an aging fan... at 25!). When I was 20 I owned no Atlas locos or cars; Since then I've picked up at least one of every Pennsy loco they made save one, and that one I cannot find at all! These are cherished models, obviously, by their lack of availability. *Someone* other than me is buying them. -D ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:21:56 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: [HO] P2K tuscan E7's Content-Length: 451 Hi, If any of you have been having trouble finding those Life-Like Proto 2000 E7's (the Tuscan ones) Al's Hobby in Elmhurst, IL had at least one when I was through the other day; I should have the phone number if anyone cares. -D ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:51:27 EST Subject: Re: [O-HiRail] Golden State Passenger Train Content-Length: 3461 In a message dated 98-03-01 09:57:54 EST, Larry Morgan writes: << The GOLDEN STATE was appareently a PRR to Rock Island to Southern Pacific combined effort launched in 1947 and became coast-to-coast pullman service. I would be interested in learning more, if anyone would know and like to share. For instance, it would be logical for a NY to Chicago to ST. Lous to Los Angles routing, but that may not be what happened. I would also like to know how long it lasted. >> The Golden State was the Rock Island's premier West Coast train (joint with the Southern Pacific) from Chicago to the West Coast, beginning as the Golden State Limited in 1902. I don't know if the train made it all the way to Amrtrak in 1971, but you could check the Rock Island historical society on the web if that was important to you.. For the lightweight train, a through sleeping car via the Pennsylvania RR (don't know about the NYC) ran every other day to New York from 1946 to 1951. To my knowledge (see how cautious I am getting?) connections were always through Chicago. The PRRT&HS Passenger Car and Lettering Guide describes the service, the cars (4 compartment, 4 double bedroom, 2 bedroom) , and the paint schemes on page 88. Briefly, the cars, Imperial Range and Imperial Terrace, started out two-tone gray for two years, were Daylight Red and silver for three, and then repainted two-tone gray for other service for two, before beng repainted in tuscan red in 1953. The car shown in the photo in the Guide has no skirts or has had the skirts removed. The through cars in this service at least started out with full skirting. Rock Island-SP contributed cars as well. I assume about four cars. Two were named Golden Fleece and Golden Cavern That book gives the Golden Arrow as the connecting train at that time and a video (Pennsy glory years, vol 3?)shows the car in that train in the late 40's behind a sharknose diesel, BP-20, near Chicago. That same video shows one of the cars in another train at Englewood. That train also includes a two-tone gray heavyweight and other Pullman green cars. It could have been the Pennsylvania Limited which carried Burlington and Overland cars for San Francisco and the Golden State and a C&NW-UP car for Los Angeles in 1951. Why the other cars were heavyweights (traffic requirements?) or why they would all appear the same day (all except the C&NW-UP car ran alternate days) is a good question. In 1950, the cars were listed in the General both ways, on alternate days. A photo in Don Ball's color Pennsylvania Railroad 1940-1950 book (page 149) shows 2 Golden State cars ahead of the observation car on the Admiral on the Curve. I assume traffic was heavy that day. In HO, MIcroscale decals are 87-122, but the Imperial Range and Imperial Terrace names are not included. I personally have an Eastern Car Works 4-4-2 and the decals to do the car (project No. 197). BTW, it is hard to tell the color of the end from photos. Original cars had full width diaphragms which were painted two-tone on the sides. Best I can tell from photos after removal of the full-width diaphragms, the entire end was painted Daylight red. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 20:59:26 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: Golden State Passenger Train Content-Length: 2395 Greetings to Larry and the list: Here's the briefest of histories of the Golden State passenger train as it relates to the PRR. There were so many variations and permutations of these transcontinental sleeper operations that it would take a small book to document them, but here's a synopsis: American railroads started operating through transcontinental sleeping-car connections in the spring of 1946. On the eastern end of the country, PRR, B&O and NYC did the honors, with the terminating/originating points being New York or Washington, and the West Coast points being San Francisco or L.A., all via Chicago. The same eastern roads also operated a smaller number of Texas/Oklahoma-bound sleepers via St. Louis, connecting with MKT/Frisco/MP. Depending on market, equipment availability, season, and schedule of connecting trains, through sleeping cars ran daily or every other day. At Chicago, PRR trains forwarded sleepers to Santa Fe, Chicago & North Western (for connection with Union Pacific), Burlington (for connection with Rio Grande/Western Pacific; this became the California Zephyr connection when that train began running in 1949), and Rock Island (for connection with Southern Pacific). The Rock Island connection was with the Golden State, an extra-fare train that was operated by SP between Tucumcari, N.M., and L.A. While some of these sleepers continued to run for several years (most were quietly killed in late 1957), the PRR-Golden State through car was discontinued much earlier, in the early summer of 1951. Rock Island continued to run the Golden State, without a connecting car, until finally discontinuing it in the mid-1960s, several years before the coming of Amtrak in 1971. The PRR trains that connected to/from the Golden State did not stay the same from year to year. This is an incomplete list: In 1946, the PRR connection westbound was No. 89, the Golden Arrow, and eastbound it was No. 48, the General. In 1949, it was the Pennsylvanian westbound (79) and the Admiral eastbound (70). In 1951, it was the General in both directions (48/49). Hope this helps. Dan Cupper cupper@ibm.net Romans 10:9-10 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Intermountain Kits Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 21:33:13 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 1427 On 1 Mar, "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." wrote: > 5) My local hobby shop will not stock Intermountain, and is probably going > to drop LL P2K, and Red Caboose because I'm one of the only people who will > buy the kits - apparently, the owner gets a lot of complaints that they are > TOO DIFFICULT - Pshaw! It takes me about two hours of very pleasurable > time to assemble any one of these kits. Offer to hold clinics at this shop on building the kits! Hold it at the busiest time (Saturday, probably); all you should need is a card-table-sized space (display counter?), plus room for the customers. Be prepared to answer the same questions again and again as fresh customers arrive. Focus on the right tools and techniques. The shop sells the tools, cement, and paint, right? I used the spare grabs from the third and fourth kit to finish the first two, but now I have plenty, and I'm using them to superdetail MT and Atlas boxcars. Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 21:35:47 EST Subject: Re: Fw: Atlas & Ageing PRR fans Content-Length: 517 Bob, I admire you for your endeavor to be an SPF. Anfd I love the part that tells me you are passing the hobby into the next generation. I am 42 and a 3rd generation modeler and it was someone just like you Bob that passed that on to me . To you sir I take my hat off. BULLY!!!! Greg Martin ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Atlas & aging PRR fans? Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 21:51:23 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 1698 On 27 Feb, TGREGMRTN wrote: > Perhaps the market is waning for Atlas, but not for other producers, ask > RED CABOOSE. I would have to say that perhaps it is the offerings that they > put on the table that is drying up. I'm a SPF and I'm 42 soon to be 43. But > my next article for Mainline will be a Pennsy offering and what we Pennsy > modelers have to go through to make their (Atlas) offerings correct for > Pennsy. Their market may be off but they can make it better. In N Scale, Atlas' PRR products are an interesting mix of dead-accurate paint jobs on non-PRR cars (PS-1 painted X29, etc). That's why they don't get more of my money. I can see their point; they only want to make things they can put a dozen paint schemes on, and PRR built too many of its own unique cars. Thankfully, we have Fine N Scale making X29, X31 and X32 boxcars, all beautiful models. I do wish he'd make Pennsy roofs for applying to other models! The Intermountain 50' DD boxcars would make a better X38 if they had the right roof (didn't stop me from buying them). Dead-on paint scheme (Automobile Circle Keystone), except that they marked it X38B. BTW, I'm a 43-year-old SPF, modelling the year of my birth. Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Huber25 Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 22:35:35 EST Subject: Z-62 business cars Content-Length: 473 I need help with modeling the Pennsy Z-62 business cars. When were they used, where were they used and most importantly....what names and numbers were used on them. I understand there were 7 cars but that's about all I have on them. Any help out there? Roger ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 02 Mar 98 09:44:19 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: Re: Towers Content-Length: 1628 Were there any two Pennsy towers that were alike? They all seemed to be unique in their construction, in some way. Was there a 'standard' tower design, or designs, for 'modern', wood construction machine-interlocked towers? LInes West guys: were things more standardized out west? Or even less so, than Lines East? Perhaps AMB might include in the instructions photos of towers their kit would be 'close' to, in order to detail it/kitbash it into an accurate replica of a specific installation. At least someone is working on a kit for one. Did Quality-Craft or Gloor-Craft offer a model of one, at one time? -- Doug Drew TGREGMRTN wrote: >Bob, > American Model Builders is working on it. It is not done yet. I have had >several conversations on which tower to do. I do not believe they have come to >a concrete committment yet. But we will have a Pennsy HO Scale Tower that >SPEAKS OF PENNSY. I know the owner personally and we talk all the time. I >have suggested he does not pattern it after any particular tower, but it must >be "typically Pennsy". Care to share your comments I realize I might take some >heat on this, but my shoulders are broad. > Greg Martin > >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 98 09:03:19 CST Subject: Re: Towers Content-Length: 1587 On 02 Mar 98 09:44:19 -0500, Doug Drew wrote: >Were there any two Pennsy towers that were alike? They all seemed to be >unique in their construction, in some way. Was there a 'standard' tower >design, or designs, for 'modern', wood construction machine-interlocked >towers? Hi, all, I cannot speak with certainty here but I too have the same impression - that individual towers had a "family resemblance" but were not exact duplicates. The Middle Div., which I know best, is a case in point. >At least someone is working on a kit for one. Did Quality-Craft or >Gloor-Craft offer a model of one, at one time? Yes, this was a wood kit based on JACKS tower in Jacks Narrows east of Lewistown. A nice kit - I have two of them. What would be great would be to have these manufacturers sell their detail parts for these towers separately. In my case, I'm modeling the towers which controlled each end of the trackage at Denholm (west of Mifflin,PA) where the huge coal wharf was. Each was similar to JACKS, esp. in the details like the wiondows, molding, etc. Thus I'm using the Gloorcraft kits and adding material to make the two larger towers which I need. It's the details which give it the PRR look. PRR forever, Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 02 Mar 98 10:03:53 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: RE: PRR credit card guy (was legal standing of PRR emblem) Content-Length: 736 First I've heard of this -- what is it, a supposed credit card with a PRR keystone on it? What's the scam? -- Doug Drew cschlund wrote: >Hi Dan & list members, > >The PRR credit card guy is still around, he was working the front entrance >of the San Francisco (Cow Palace) GATS show. Given what I had heard about >all this on the list, I gave him & his booth a wide berth. > > - Claus Schlund (Shop Foreman, Bernal Heights Car & Foundry) > Modeling steam-era PRR in N scale > San Francisco, CA ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 10:32:42 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: Towers Content-Length: 732 Doug Drew wrote: (Referring to PRR Interlocking Towers) > > At least someone is working on a kit for one. Did Quality-Craft or > Gloor-Craft offer a model of one, at one time? > -- Doug Drew > Doug, Quality Craft produced a kit that they claimed was based on the Jack's Run tower, in both O (and HO?). I think they are still produced by Gloor Craft. Various reviews, in The Keystone and elsewhere, pointed out a few correctible discrepancies, but they definitely have the PRR look. Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Atlas & aging PRR fans? Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 10:50:49 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 998 On 1 Mar, Dennis Rockwell wrote: > In N Scale, Atlas' PRR products are an interesting mix of > dead-accurate paint jobs on non-PRR cars (PS-1 painted X29, > etc). I just realized that I should amend my own posting. Atlas' 40' plug-door box (33211) is a dead-on match (number and all) for a car in Color Guide Vol 1, as is one of the two-bay covered hoppers (can't remember which offhand). I didn't mean to ignore the excellent PRR matches that Atlas does make. They're just after my era, so I tend to forget them. Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:43:58 EST Subject: Re: Z-62 business cars Content-Length: 685 Quick response: This subject was covered sometime back in both the Keystone and Rails Northeast, I believe. One thing I remember immediately is that there is a trap -- the same car can have multiple names over time. For example, the Williamsport (7530) at the Ohio Railway Museum had Buffalo under the paint when it was stripped some years back. In 1928, 7531 was the Columbus. And 7528 went to the DT&I (when?). Having trouble finding the source(s) of these facts. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:44:00 EST Subject: Re: Towers alike? Content-Length: 1495 In a message dated 98-03-02 09:47:53 EST, ddrew@channing-bete.com writes: << PRR-Talk@dsop.com (PRR-Talk) >> As a Lines Southwest fan, it seemed to me: 1. A lot of Pennsy towers had definite family resemblances. Occasionally, you would see the same plan multiple places. For example, Piqua Crossing (Piqua Ohio), a brick 2-story, looks identical to Race(?) tower in Logansport and to one in east Columbus near Alum Creek. 2. Taken as a whole, a tower was more likely to be masonry east of Pittsburgh, and wood on Lines West (of course, with enough exceptions to fill up several books). Towers with cantilevered operators bays projecting out the front of the second story are more likely to be "Eastern" (Jacks, Huntington (PA) and many more. 3. On Lines West, there were a great many wood 2 story block towers. By the end of the Pennsy, it seemed the majority had received that "beauty treatment" siding (pastel green asphalt shingling?). 4. A peculiarity of block towers between Crestline and Chicago is that they often had outhouses (still standing in the 70s). We didn't notice this elsewhere on the system. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY PRR Columbus Div. 1968 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249 Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:46:10 EST Subject: Ageing PRR fans Content-Length: 340 ATLAS should ask BOWSER - at last report all variants of the H-21 Hopper and the Round Roof Box cars were sold out............. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:38:22 EST Subject: Re: PRR Freight Trucks Content-Length: 350 Additional information THe Allied Cushion Trucks were calss 2DF23 and used primarily on X38, G29b, P30 and P30a class cars. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 02 Mar 98 17:32:09 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: Re: Towers alike? Content-Length: 500 Rick Tipton wrote: >4. A peculiarity of block towers between Crestline and Chicago is that they >often had outhouses (still standing in the 70s). We didn't notice this >elsewhere on the system. Okay, who can tell me where to find plans for a Standard PRRivy? ; < ) -- Doug Drew ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Huber25 Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 18:34:51 EST Subject: BM-60's Content-Length: 615 Anyone have any information on the BM-60 RPO's? I have been able to find nothing on them during their Pennsy days. Several were sold to the N&W and converted to mail storage cars by closing in the windows. I need numbers for them as I need to paint several models. Does anyone know when they were built, used, retired and where they ran. Very elusive cars-no photos that I've found. Thanks, Roger ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 19:09:01 -0500 From: Chris Brandt Subject: Re: PRRivvy (was Re: Towers alike?) Content-Length: 1987 Doug Drew wrote: > Okay, who can tell me where to find plans for a Standard PRRivy? ; < ) > ^ X X x X X x X X x X X X X X ___________ X X | | | | X | | ___ | | | | _\ /_ | | | | \ / | | /---\ | | \_/ | | / O\ | | | | ( O ) | | | | \O / | | -o| | \---/ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | \\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////\\\\//////\\\\\\\////////////\\\\\\ Signals as follows: Horizontal: Occupied. Vertical: Unoccupied. Diagonal: RR execs only. (I'm voluntarily cauterizing the end of this thread.....zzzzzzzzt!) _________ __\ _ /__ --------\ | ) /----------------------------------------------- ---------\ |}/|} /---------Chris Brandt--------------------------- ----------\ |\ |\ /----------mailto:cobrandt@eclipse.net------------ -----------\ | /-----------http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/------ ------------\___/--------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 17:25:58 -0800 From: Frank Bagrash Subject: Golden State Content-Length: 935 For what it's worth, the 4th flight of HO P2K E7's include the SP in Golden State livery. Some might say that it isn't as "pretty" as the Daylight scheme, but it is truly elegant. (BTW, trains aren't meant to be pretty. They are elegant, impressive, awesome, handsome, etc. Just the way that good coffee is a hearty aromatic meal, not a confection.). At one time, there was a special set of Rivarossi cars painted in the Golden State scheme and Con-Cor did these in N-scale as well. Remember that Rivarossi also released various through cars used on coast-to-coast services. For example, there is a two-toned gray car for a UP train but lettered with a small Pennsylvania at the end of the letterboard. Frank ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 19:34:52 -0600 From: rboydrrs@inlink.com (Robert A. Boyd) Subject: Re: Towers alike? Content-Length: 871 Doug Drew wrote: >Okay, who can tell me where to find plans for a Standard PRRivy? ; < ) ===== You might check with the NMRA; as I recall, there was a brief mention of outhouses (outheese?) in some back issue entitled: ********** A One Evening Project: A Small Rural Structure by, Whit Biffy ********** Rots of ruck. Bob Robert A. Boyd Those Classic Trains "Beginning A Century-Long Tradition Of Fine Modelmaking." ========================================================== "The Limited" On Line - http://www.thoseclassictrains.com The Golden Age Of Railroad Passenger Service ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 18:05:43 -0800 From: ironhorse@sprintmail.com Subject: Cabin Car Trucks Content-Length: 801 Greetings, I'm looking for information on the various trucks used on PRR cabins throughout the years. As a start, I'm especially interested in those used on the N5b cars, but want to collect information on all of them. What I need is the class of each and also where I can get a good, clear photograph of each for reference purposes. Though I have small bits of information on a very few, it's not enough to do anything with in my modeling. I have Bowser's models, but I'm looking for Prototype photos for details. Any help will be much appreciated. TIA Charlie Fox ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 21:26:21 -0500 From: steve long Subject: standard plans Content-Length: 716 Heys guys, I remember seeing plans for a PRR privy, both single and double holers in the 57 Standard Plans from the Pennsylvania Railroad I don't have my copy handy but it does exist. Also in it was demensions for whistleposts, phone booths, handrails, and some track turnouts plus trestles. Don't ask me who published it I just remember the cover being green. Everything I have seen on Pennsy property was confirmed in the book. Steve Long, "Watching over the Vandalia Line, Michigan Division". ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 22:25:54 -0500 From: steve long Subject: I found it and I was wrong Content-Length: 707 It's not in the book, I was wrong, but I have seen it, it does exist. It's easy mistaking a phone booth for a privy. Maybe that's why Ma bell doesn't like me. One thing that's handy is on page 47, it's a font layout for signs and notices, dated Jan. 1911.The book is titled as follows: "57 plans Compiled in the Office of Chief Engineer of Maintenance of Way for the Pennsylvania Railroad", published by Boynton & Associates Clifton House/Clifton ,Va 22024 printed 1967 Steve Long ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 23:11:28 -0500 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: Re: Atlas & aging PRR fans? Content-Length: 1154 Jerry Shickler wrote: > > A few weeks ago, Rob Schoenberg said that an Atlas rep. said that the > Pennsy market is drying up as its fan base ages. I'm interested in > seeing what the average & range of ages of list subscribers is. If those > willing would e-mail me (off list) their ages, I'll post the results, > and also send them to the Atlas rep who lurks at rec.models.railroad. > With 47 people responding, both the average and median age are 45 yrs old. Many people said that they have children, grandchildren, or fellow club members who are also SPF's, but I didn't include those. Roughly a third of the list responded, so for those who haven't and wish to, please e-mail me with your age (I'm 34, BTW). It would be interesting to do a similar survey on the Conrail list, or if there are other modern RR lists, to compare numbers. (I don't subscribe to Conrail). -- Jerry Shickler e-mail: geshick@velocity.net ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 07:56:18 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: Towers alike? Content-Length: 977 Robert A. Boyd wrote: > > Doug Drew wrote: > > >Okay, who can tell me where to find plans for a Standard PRRivy? ; < ) > > ===== > > You might check with the NMRA; as I recall, there was a brief mention of > outhouses (outheese?) in some back issue..." ----------------------------- Gentlemen, If you can go back to NMRA Bulletins from the 1960's, that organization was virtually polarized, almost to the point of secession, by a long and bitter series of articles and letters as to whether outhouses, and the modeling thereof, were a fit subject for the "Bulletin." As I recall, it was sparked by one member's construction article and another's letter of condemnation. Tolerance was not the byword of the day. Steve Bartlett > ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 11:52:13 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: I need photos & drawings! Content-Length: 1820 Hi All, I have several PRR needs - any help would be greatly appreciated: 1) I need photographs or drawings of the Martic Forge Bridge on the A&S branch (I know Jerry has a photo on his web site) 2) I need photographs or drawings of the Safe Harbor bridges over Conestoga Creek (C&PD and A&S branches) (I know Jerry has a photo on his web site) 3) I need photos or drawings of the catenary tower cars which were based on the FM flat car. In particular, I need good views of the mechanical workings. (I know about the photos in the Color Guides 1 & 2) 4) I need photos or drawings of cabin car underbody details. Specifically, the N4 and N6B are of interest. I am looking for DETAILS - locations of all piping, cylinders, levers etc. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 12:50:40 -0600 From: John Subject: Re: Atlas & aging PRR fans? Content-Length: 790 Jerry Shickler wrote: > A few weeks ago, Rob Schoenberg said that an Atlas rep. said that the > Pennsy market is drying up as its fan base ages. I'm interested in > seeing what the average & range of ages of list subscribers is. Ironically, I recently had a similar conversation with the owner of a local hobby shop. He stated the hobby is seeing an upswing in interest and sales but most of the new- comers are older folks. I'm 55 and am returning to the hobby after being away from it since the early 70s. Gee, I wish I had saved all my "stuff". :) John ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 16:31:34 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Hunter" Subject: Re: Atlas & aging PRR fans? Content-Length: 686 Hi there- I'm all of 56 and an SPF. At present, there seems to be more PRR stuff on the market that is correct for the prototype (not just lettered PRR) than ever before. But if all that should cease, I'll just go back to what I used to do: I'll kitbash what I need. If Atlas doesn't want to letter a first generation diesel PRR, then I buy an undec and paint it myself. Usually I'm more satisfied with my own paint jobs and my own lettering anyway. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Stephen R. Sejda" Subject: MP229 Motive Power Assignments Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 18:38:06 -0500 Content-Length: 542 Greetings All! I am looking for a 1952 copy of PRR's "MP229" Motive Power Assignments. If anyone has a copy I will gladly pay for a quality photo copy duplicate plus postage, etc.. (Please reply via private e-mail.) Thanks. Steve Sejda (srsejda@jaguarsystems.com) Hoping to model the Phila. Terminal Division someday. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: GG-1 Sound Effects Date: Tue, 3 Mar 98 20:10:00 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 660 A few months back I recall someone looking for digital sounds for a GG-1. The April 1998 issue of Model Railroader has an ad for one on page 12. The company is Dallee Electronics (http://www.dallee.com) and the price is $109.95. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 19:35:18 EST Subject: Barree in the Middle Division Content-Length: 1049 I sent this message several days ago and don't recall a copy coming back to me, perhaps it never made it through AOL, I may have sent it when the had their big crash last week. If no one responds I will assume the information I seek is not available through PRR-Talk. "Does anyone know of any sources of photographs, magazine articles, and other information for Barree. Particularly need information on the passenger station and other trackside structures. Also E. R Baldrige Co., photos, what did they manufacture? They are listed in the 1923 CT 1000E and the 1945 CT 1000. Their siding is/was located 1.2 miles west of the passenger station which would place it near or just beyond Tunnel Interlocking. The topo maps shows a gravel pit near this location, would this be a Baldrige facility? Harold McGee Gainesville, FL ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 98 19:59:09 CST Subject: Re: Towers Content-Length: 4696 Hi, all, Some thoughts on the Denholm coal wharf. Is the Denholm coaling station the focus point of your layout, or >just part of it? It's something of a focal point, but because of its location and the necessary selective compression (from 12 to 6 tracks wide; much much shorter from interlocking to interlocking) maybe not as much as it might sound. >I haven't seen many photos of the Denholm coaler, or the area in general. >I can only remember one Don Wood photo, and that was focusing on the >engine passing through. I once saw a picture of a crude model of it in an old >Model Railroader. There was a long article with many photos in an issue of the KEYSTONE from the early 1980's. That's where I got most of my info. I also got a glimpse of it in a PRR video, shot from the >rear of a passing train. If this is the Green Frog video and the scene was black & white, then it was not Denholm, but its near-twin at Thorndale. This video identifies this coal wharf as Denholm but it is not because the wharf ends abruptly at the very end of this sequence, whereas Denholm had track running off each end. My understanding is that there was a fairly >substantial yard there, for storage of coal cars. A track diverged from the >yard and 'flew over' the main directly above the coal bins. Hoppers parked >there would dump into the bins. Were the cars above the bins used to store >the coal until it was to be dumped into locomotives, rather than the large >storage hopper setup more usually seen? Yes, cars were run out onto the wharf from a nearby small holding yard, emptied into the bins in the wharf itself and then rolled off by gravity onto a holding track on the other side of the wharf. The KEYSTONE article includes excellent track diagrams. The wharf also had bins for sand, standpipes for water, inspection pits, and ash pits where fires were cleaned and the ashes conveyed up into an adjacent ash house bin by two underground continuous conveyors. There was also a powerhouse adjacent which provided first steam and then electricity. > >Did Denholm have a station where a local passenger train might stop? Yes, up until the 1930s, if memory serves me right. How extensive were the other facilities there -- a freight house, maintenance >of way sheds, etc.? Not much else - there were some houses for employees nearby and a few still stand. In addition, the PRR maintained some reservoirs on the mountain to the south, some of which are still used, I believe, by some of the local towns for water. Obviously, there were towers, as you mentioned. Did >all steam-powered trains stop for coal, or just freights, or did it >'depend'? Mostly west-bound freights and probably mostly for coal - they could scoop water at Hawstone, further west. The wharf was completed c. 1910, when H class 2-8-0s were the standard freight engine, and whose tenders were small and needed frequent replenishment. The sense I have is that fewer passenger trains stopped than freight. > >What are you using for data about the trackage layout, station(s), other >buildings, and the coal wharf itself? The KEYSTONE article is the main source. I worked up simplified plans from the photos. Parts were scratch built but the main steel framework came from two IHC (?) Cheyenne Coaling towers. They were similar enough and a heck of lot easier to built than scratchbuilting all those rivited girders. Denholm stayed in service until the end of steam on the Middle Div. in the late 1950s. It was torn down about 1960. There is still a wide spot in the track at Denholm and one stone abutment from the lead track onto the wharf is easily seen. While in operation, a crew of five or six men were needed for each shift. Sand was unloaded by hand from gons - about one car per shift, I believe. Unlike coaling towers in yards, the release of coal was partially controlled by personnel on the coal wharf. Jerry was kind enough to put my layout trackplan on his website. I guess one of these days I ought to send him a photo of Denholm. Thanks to a friend who works for Union Switch and Signal, one of the towers I'm building will have a complete rod-driven (not working!!) interlocking system - at least, that's the plan! PRR forever, Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: PRR Passenger Equipment Roster Reprint Date: Tue, 3 Mar 98 20:13:09 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 877 The April 1998 issue of Model Railroader, beginning on page 42, in the "Railroader's Library" section, indicates that Wahsatch Backshop (763 Montclair Drive, No. 9, Claymont, DE 19703-3608) has reprinted two PRR documents: The PRR Book of Rules, Sept. 30, 1951, is available for $8 plus $2 shipping. The PRR Passenger Equipment Roster, Oct. 1, 1954, is available for $20 plus $3 shipping. Anyone see the latter? I may be interested. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 22:13:23 EST Subject: Re: MP229 Motive Power Assignments Content-Length: 551 In a message dated 98-03-03 18:42:42 EST, srsejda@jaguarsystems.com writes: << I am looking for a 1952 copy of PRR's "MP229" Motive Power Assignments. If anyone has a copy I will gladly pay for a quality photo copy duplicate plus postage, etc.. >> This would be a great document to see posted to Keystone Crossings!! John Keel ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 2:07:04 -0600 From: "Laird, Bill (GWise)" Subject: Dallee Electronics (was GG-1 Sounds) Content-Length: 1835 Date: 03/04/1998 02:03 am (Wednesday) From: Bill Laird To: INET.MAIL("PRR-Talk@dsop.com") Subject: Dallee Electronics (was GG-1 Sounds) Has anyone on the list had experience with Dallee sound units. A couple of years ago I tried to install one for a friend of mine. The unit never performed as advertised. It made some sounds but not all of the generator, air release, and blow down sounds that the instruction sheet said would be there. The sounds also did not always work when they were supposed to, things like air release when starting the engine from a dead stop. I called Dallee twice and received no help at all in troubleshooting the installation, the attitude was "well, it's supposted to work, guess you did something wrong" and "other people don't have any trouble". I would be interested in other's experiences with Dallee products. Bill Laird Houston, Texas >>> PRR-Talk@dsop.com 3/3/98, 06:10pm wrote>>> A few months back I recall someone looking for digital sounds for a GG-1. The April 1998 issue of Model Railroader has an ad for one on page 12. The company is Dallee Electronics (http://www.dallee.com) and the price is $109.95. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: MP229 Motive Power Assignments Date: Wed, 4 Mar 98 06:25:20 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 787 On 3/3/98 11:13 PM, Da72jmk (Da72jmk@aol.com) wrote: ><< I am looking for a 1952 copy of PRR's "MP229" Motive Power >Assignments. If > anyone has a copy I will gladly pay for a quality photo copy duplicate plus > postage, etc.. >> > >This would be a great document to see posted to Keystone Crossings!! I'll post it if someone can loan me a copy... ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 09:44:26 -0500 From: Drew McGhee Subject: Re: PRR Passenger Equipment Roster Reprint Content-Length: 1245 Greetings to Jerry and the group, I have a copy of this publication and posted a review of it to the group about a year ago. It is not a complete list of PRR passanger equipment as mentioned in the MR review or as implied by its title. It seems to be a listing of equipment that was assigned to a particular region. Was it a worthwhile purchase, yes. Is it the "Holy Grail" of PRR info, no. It is just another good reference to have in your library that may fill in some knowledge gaps. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA http://www.personal.psu.edu/drm6 At 08:13 PM 3/3/98 -0400, Jerry wrote: >The PRR Passenger Equipment Roster, Oct. 1, 1954, is available for $20 >plus $3 shipping. > >Anyone see the latter? I may be interested. > >----------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton >"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ >Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! >----------------------------------------------- Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA http://www.personal.psu.edu/drm6 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:17:46 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: Dallee Electronics (was GG-1 Sounds) Content-Length: 5119 >I would be interested in other's experiences with Dallee products. I ordered the Dallee GG-1 and PRR steam (banshee whistle) sound units a few months ago for use with my DCC system. The following are my observations and comparisons with ThrottleUp! Soundtraxx DCC sound decoders. 1) The Dallee units are BIG, and you have to have space for the DCC decoder too! - In order to fit one in an HO scale GG-1, I had to remove one entire side of the drive down to the floor (interesting problem getting doing this in an IHC/Mehano GG1, but that's another story). You might consider making one GG-1 a dummy and permanently coupling it to a powered unit (remember, these units can't pull their own weight, so this could be fun...but I digress!) The steam unit would not fit in anything smaller than a 110 tender, and maybe not then! The Soundtraxx units are smaller, and incorporate a complete DCC decoder. I can fit the newest ones inside the boiler of a mantua 2-6-6-2T (Narrower than most PRR power) and they will fit most PRR tenders 2) The Dallee speakers are a little better than the the Soundtraxx speakers, but Tony Koester reccommended "edge ported PFM" speakers to me, and I concur - mounted in a tender pointed forward, they make the sound come from the locomotive. 3) All of the sounds were there in my Dallee GG-1 unit BUT (and it is a big but!) they only work one at a time - ie if the bell is ringing, no horn, no blowers etc., AND they are a little fussy. Dallee says "you wouldn't hear more than one sound at a time anyway" - Bull! Oh yeah their solution? Add more sound units!!! (at $100 EACH) Soundtraxx chips have all sounds at all times - the chuff runs, with the bell, and the horn etc. Also, these chips have more directly controllable, and automatic functions (syncopation, freddy the fireman shoveling coal, raking the grate, oiling, etc) 4) For PRR, Dallee offers GG-1, K-4, T-1 (special 3 chime whistle), and Freight (banshee) whistles. For PRR, Soundtraxx offers only a K-4 whistle (and rumors indicate that the whistle may not be appropriate - comments?) 5) Cost? Dallee - $100 plus multifunction DCC decoder ($45) = $145 Sountraxx - list $180, discounted to <$140 at Tony's Train Exchange (WARNING! the units I got from Tony's did not come with the full technical manual, which is ESSENTIAL to program all of the neato cool functions! Also, Tony doesn't like the PRR whistle, and really pushed other units - he is the source of my info about its sound. My conclusion? The Soundtraxx system is far superior to Dallee, but offers fewer PRR whistle choices. My Solution? I would urge each one of you out there to call ThrottleUp! (303/465-4435) and ask them to produce the following sounds: GG-1, PRR Freight Whistle, PRR Three chime (T-1) in order to compete with Dallee. The company is friendly and responsive, and if you contact them, they will resond with the sound units we WANT. As it stands now, I will have one plastic GG-1 with Dallee sound (the unit will never fit in my brass electrics), one I-1 (long haul tender) with Dallee sound, and when the new Bowser T-1 is released I will probably equip that with Dallee sound as well. All other steam units will get Soundtraxx K-4 sound. The catch 22 I face is that those electrics I do not equip with sound right away will get DCC decoders, and therefore, Dallee sound units would be the less expensive option for subsequently adding sound, however the units will not fit! PLEASE NOTE: You can always put the Dallee units in a car trailing the locomotive (with the speaker in the loco). I thought VERY seriously about this in cases where I will have made up passenger trains which do not change consists, but I would really prefer to have more flexibility than permanently coupling headend cars to the loco. This is especially true as, to add operational interest, my passenger trains will have "work to do" as they pass through the layout - adding and dropping headend cars! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 10:25:06 EST Subject: Re: Class PL85 / BL85 Content-Length: 842 In a message dated 98-03-04 09:05:13 EST, Jerry writes: << Not sure if this was a PL85 or BL85, but it's an 85' lightweight baggage/lounge car. Was used on the post-war Liberty Limited. Anyone have elevations and plans for this guy? Who built it? >> Didn't get any attached image with your message, but the July 1951 consist of Liberty Limited included a PLB85. For some reason, the similar cars on the Jeffersonian and Trailblazer were listed as BLB85R--don't know what the R means. Basic dimensions on page 47 of Wayner book PRR Passenger & Freight Car Diagrams. Doesn't give builder. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Carl Izzo" Subject: Re:Plans for a Standard PRR Privey Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 10:26:31 -0500 Content-Length: 1092 Steve: I remember it well. They could have changed the name from NMRA to NSA (National Scatological Society). The Standard Plan probably has a keystone rather than a quarter moon vent cut into the door. Carl P. Izzo ----------------------------- On 3-4-98, Steve Bartlett Wrote > Gentlemen, > > If you can go back to NMRA Bulletins from the 1960's, that organization > was virtually polarized, almost to the point of secession, by a long and > bitter series of articles and letters as to whether outhouses, and the > modeling thereof, were a fit subject for the "Bulletin." As I recall, > it was sparked by one member's construction article and another's letter > of condemnation. > > Tolerance was not the byword of the day. > > Steve Bartlett > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 98 14:14:43 CST Subject: Princeton Content-Length: 1898 Hi, all, Just got back from a conference in Princeton, NJ during which I managed to squeeze in a bit of railfanning. Rode the Dinky train from Princeton to Princeton Jct. and back - not bad railfanning for $2.50. The down side for me was how little of the original PRR was still in evidence. The cantenary poles and all are still PRR but I was half-hoping some PRR buildings still stood at the junction. No such luck - it's all ultra-modern concrete. NASSAU tower still stood but as best I can tell, the interlockings it once controlled have been removed. The most PRR thing in sight were the position light signals but even these have had the center light removed and are colored now - but hey, they're still position lights. The best part was the hour I spent just watching trains at the junction. The track is dead straight here and when an AMTRAK comes through, WOW! I'd forgotten what a sight it is to see a train probably going over 100 mph. I caught about 8 trains in one hour - even three at one time! Where else can you do that? The PRR may be hard to spot today but the plant they built is still awesome. Another first - call me old-fashioned but I've never had my ticket lifted on a train before by a guy with pierced body parts. I was also surprised to see how steep the grade up into Princeton is. It's about 2.5%! Not too many places left today where you can ride scheduled service over that sort of grade. A thought - is this the shortest scheduled train service in the US today? PRR forever! Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Stephen R. Sejda" Subject: Re: PRR Passenger Equipment Roster Reprint Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 12:04:09 -0500 Content-Length: 1281 > The April 1998 issue of Model Railroader, beginning on page 42, in the > "Railroader's Library" section, indicates that Wahsatch Backshop (763 > Montclair Drive, No. 9, Claymont, DE 19703-3608) has reprinted two PRR > documents: > > The PRR Book of Rules, Sept. 30, 1951, is available for $8 plus $2 > shipping. > > The PRR Passenger Equipment Roster, Oct. 1, 1954, is available for $20 > plus $3 shipping. > > Anyone see the latter? I may be interested. I purchased a copy at a Phila. Chapter meeting about a year ago. The book is an excellent resource for anyone interested PRR passenger equipment. It lists equipment by road number, type, class #, type of A/C, type of seats, seating capacity, and truck class. It also lists baggage, mail, and express cars including all the express X29's and N5's along with truck types assigned to each car number. The book is not a reprint of the original but has been enhanced with the truck assignment information. IMO the book is well worth the price. Steve Sejda (srsejda@jaguarsystems.com) ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 12:31:37 -0600 From: Jeff Olsenholler Subject: Chrysler plant, Twinsburg OH, was HO scale PRR signals? Content-Length: 1567 > Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 15:55:42 -0500 (EST) > From: Derrick J Brashear > Subject: HO scale PRR signals? > Content-Length: 1692 > > In other "news" I had the pleasure this past Monday of following the old > Fort Wayne west from East Palestine (where my previous jaunt left off) to > Alliance, and then heading north toward Cleveland, where we visited the > tower at Berea (because my friend, who was driving, wanted to see it and > get some pix... but it was dark by then). > > On the way back we skirted the south of Cleveland and while randomly > picking roads which looked like they paralleled the tracks we went through > a scene i recognized: the lead to the Chrysler stamping plant at Twinsburg > as seen in one of the Pennsy Diesel Years books > My father-in-law worked that plant for the last years of his life. Can anyone tell me which of the Pennsy Diesel Years books has that photograph? Also, can someone recommend some books or other resources that cover the Lake Division from ~1950 through Conrail? Thanks, -- Jeff Olsenholler Manager, Remote Sensing Applications Lab jolsenho@rsal.unomaha.edu Department of Geography and Geology (402) 554-2725 (voice) University Of Nebraska - Omaha (402) 554-3518 (fax) Omaha, NE 68182-0199 http://rsal.unomaha.edu/local.html ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 12:44:05 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: PRR Whistles (was GG-1 sound) Content-Length: 2742 >My Solution? I would urge each one of you out there to call ThrottleUp! >(303/465-4435) and ask them to produce the following sounds: GG-1, PRR >Freight Whistle, PRR Three chime (T-1) in order to compete with Dallee. I just called and that number has been disconnected - try 970-259-0690 instead. Now some GREAT NEWS!!! I spoke with the Soundtraxx people a few minutes ago, and they are doing the following: 1) PRR GG-1 for release this summer! 2) PRR steam power - they are working on re-doing the current K-4 (they don't like it all that much apparently), releasing a banshee version, a K-5, and even a T-1 whistle. They base their releases on two factors 1) Customer requests - CALL THEM 2) Available sounds. Here's the biggest problem - their preference is to digitally record the whistle, with the cooperation of the engineer to get the full dynamic range of sounds. Its even better when there are NO other sounds (pumps etc). Thus, they are hoping to be able to record the K-4 whistle from the loco currently at Steamtown (although cooperation is apparently not great - if any of you are connected up there PLEASE help them!). Soundtraxx will use analog recordings if they must, so if any of you have really good quality sounds - let them know! The preference of Soundtraxx is to record PURE whistle sounds - a whistle hooked up to ANY air/steam source will do! Does anyone on this list have, or have access to PRR whistles? What about the whistles in the collection at the RR Museum of PA in Strasburg? Could they be "borrowed" on site for something like this? BTW, Tony's Train Exchange is found at: http://www.ttx-dcc.com Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 14:35:58 -0600 From: rboydrrs@inlink.com (Robert A. Boyd) Subject: Re:Plans for a Standard PRR Privey Content-Length: 918 >I remember it well. They could have changed the name from NMRA to NSA >(National Scatological Society). > >The Standard Plan probably has a keystone rather than a quarter moon vent >cut into the door. > >Carl P. Izzo ===== Indeed: they really got bent out of shape. If they had changed the name, what would their new logo have been (rhetorical question)? Perhaps "Corncobs rampant over a crescent moon?" Bob Robert A. Boyd Those Classic Trains "Beginning A Century-Long Tradition Of Fine Modelmaking." ========================================================== "The Limited" On Line - http://www.thoseclassictrains.com The Golden Age Of Railroad Passenger Service ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 14:35:55 -0600 From: rboydrrs@inlink.com (Robert A. Boyd) Subject: Re: Class PL85 / BL85 Content-Length: 1473 Bob Zoller notes: >Didn't get any attached image with your message, but the July 1951 consist of >Liberty Limited included a PLB85. For some reason, the similar cars on the >Jeffersonian and Trailblazer were listed as BLB85R--don't know what the R >means. >Basic dimensions on page 47 of Wayner book PRR Passenger & Freight Car >Diagrams. Doesn't give builder. ===== The "R" stands for air conditioned. This was added when PRR started A/C installations in the 30s, and was discontinued late 1951 when the entire fleet was effectively equipped (kind of like the "s" on superheated steamers). The "R" designation continued to appear sporadically for years afterward, which is probably why one train was so noted and the others weren't. My set of PRR equipment diagrams shows the PLB85R "Passenger Lounge Baggage 85' A/C" but doesn't give the builder or date. I suspect, based on how it is presented in my diagrams, that it may be an ACF postwar car. Bob Robert A. Boyd Those Classic Trains "Beginning A Century-Long Tradition Of Fine Modelmaking." ========================================================== "The Limited" On Line - http://www.thoseclassictrains.com The Golden Age Of Railroad Passenger Service ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 14:41:33 -0600 (CST) From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr." Subject: Re: Dallee Electronics (was GG-1 Sounds) Content-Length: 1295 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." wrote: They base their releases on two factors 1) Customer requests - CALL THEM 2) Available sounds. Here's the biggest problem - their preference is to digitally record the whistle, with the cooperation of the engineer to get the full dynamic range of sounds. Its even better when there are NO other sounds (pumps etc). I put in a call and requested I-1 sounds. Told them I am superdetailing two of them. When I told the lady what I wanted she laughed; apparently Bruce's post has prompted a number of requests. I also suggested what I proposed on this list some time ago. I told her about the PRRT&HS CD set and suggested they contact the Society about using the sounds and sharing the profits. She said they would check into it. Keep your fingers crossed. I suspect that is the only way some of the sounds will get into electronic form. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 harperd@tamug.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 16:37:38 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Hunter" Subject: Re: Dallee Electronics (was GG-1 Sounds) Content-Length: 1931 Don- Interesting conversation I'm watching about these sounds. It'll be a while before I reach the sound installation stage. But, FYI, I believe the sounds on the PRR T&HS CD were originally recorded by John Prophet, a name that should be familiar to many SPF's. Cheers, Jim On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Donald E. Harper, Jr. wrote: > From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." wrote: > > > > They base their releases on two factors > 1) Customer requests - CALL THEM > 2) Available sounds. Here's the biggest problem - their preference is to > digitally record the whistle, with the cooperation of the engineer to get > the full dynamic range of sounds. Its even better when there are NO other > sounds (pumps etc). > > > I put in a call and requested I-1 sounds. Told them I am superdetailing two of > them. When I told the lady what I wanted she laughed; apparently Bruce's post > has prompted a number of requests. > > I also suggested what I proposed on this list some time ago. I told her about > the PRRT&HS CD set and suggested they contact the Society about using the sounds > and sharing the profits. She said they would check into it. Keep your fingers > crossed. I suspect that is the only way some of the sounds will get into > electronic form. > > Don Harper > Texas A&M Marine Lab > 5007 Avenue U > Galveston, TX 77551 > 409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 > harperd@tamug.tamu.edu > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 21:39:11 EST Subject: Re: Princeton Content-Length: 473 In a message dated 98-03-04 13:15:11 EST, George.Pierson@trnty.edu writes: > is this the shortest scheduled train service in the US today? > I believe so, unless you count subways. The Times Square-Grand Central line would be shorter. Rich Copeland ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jim Clay Subject: DCC Questions Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 22:22:08 -0500 Content-Length: 718 Is there anyone on this list who has some experience with DCC and would be willing to answer questions from a novice trying to wire a small layout. My questions mainly concern the wiring of reverse loops and the best way to handle these situations from a DCC perspective. Please respond to me directly as this topic does not really pertain to the PRR and probably shouldn't be discussed within this list. Thanks in advance for your help. Jim Clay Mechanicsburg, PA jclay@paonline.com ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 21:50:04 -0600 From: rboydrrs@inlink.com (Robert A. Boyd) Subject: Re: shortest scheduled service Content-Length: 1012 >In a message dated 98-03-04 13:15:11 EST, George.Pierson@trnty.edu writes: > >> is this the shortest scheduled train service in the US today? >> >I believe so, unless you count subways. The Times Square-Grand >Central line would be shorter. > >Rich Copeland ===== Well how about intercity service? For instance, there is the Penn Station to Sunnyside run (NYC to New Jersey). I doubt if many passengers get off there, but there is likely still a fair amount of express. Or could I be mistaken? Bob Robert A. Boyd Those Classic Trains "Beginning A Century-Long Tradition Of Fine Modelmaking." ========================================================== "The Limited" On Line - http://www.thoseclassictrains.com The Golden Age Of Railroad Passenger Service ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Princeton From: ptrmgtsvc@juno.com (Michael E. Allen) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 23:04:39 EST Content-Length: 2963 Did you find the three mile marker in Blair Court? 1. Yes, it is the shortest scheduled service. 2. Crossovers were removed 12 or so years ago except for the one trailing point to the branch. Nassau was remoted to Midway [Monmouth Junction] which was then remoted to Fair [Trenton] MEA ______________________________ PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY PTRMgtSvc@Juno.com Management Services Telephone 609-683-0356 On Wed, 4 Mar 98 14:14:43 CST George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) writes: >Hi, all, > >Just got back from a conference in Princeton, NJ during which I managed to >squeeze in a bit of railfanning. Rode the Dinky train from Princeton to >Princeton Jct. and back - not bad railfanning for $2.50. The down side for >me was how little of the original PRR was still in evidence. The cantenary >poles and all are still PRR but I was half-hoping some PRR buildings >still stood at the junction. No such luck - it's all ultra-modern concrete. >NASSAU tower still stood but as best I can tell, the interlockings it >once controlled have been removed. The most PRR thing in sight were >the position light signals but even these have had the center light removed and >are colored now - but hey, they're still position lights. > >The best part was the hour I spent just watching trains at the junction. >The track is dead straight here and when an AMTRAK comes through, WOW! > I'd forgotten what a sight it is to see a train probably going over 100 >mph. I caught about 8 trains in one hour - even three at one time! Where >else can you do that? The PRR may be hard to spot today but the plant they >built is still awesome. > >Another first - call me old-fashioned but I've never had my ticket >lifted on a train before by a guy with pierced body parts. I was also >surprised to see how steep the grade up into Princeton is. It's about 2.5%! >Not too many places left today where you can ride scheduled service over that >sort of grade. > >A thought - is this the shortest scheduled train service in the US today? > >PRR forever! > >Sincerely, > >George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu >Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College > >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: shortest scheduled service From: ptrmgtsvc@juno.com (Michael E. Allen) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 23:57:03 EST Content-Length: 2015 I checked a couple of ETTs to confirm this and, while there is a slight variance over the years, from Princeton Jct to the current Princeton Statation is 2.7 and has never exceeded 2.8 wile from NYP to Sunnyside varies from 3.0 to 3.7 MEA ______________________________ PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY PTRMgtSvc@Juno.com Management Services Telephone 609-683-0356 On Wed, 4 Mar 1998 21:50:04 -0600 rboydrrs@inlink.com (Robert A. Boyd) writes: >>In a message dated 98-03-04 13:15:11 EST, George.Pierson@trnty.edu >writes: >> >>> is this the shortest scheduled train service in the US today? >>> >>I believe so, unless you count subways. The Times Square-Grand >>Central line would be shorter. >> >>Rich Copeland > >===== > >Well how about intercity service? For instance, there is the Penn >Station >to Sunnyside run (NYC to New Jersey). I doubt if many passengers get >off >there, but there is likely still a fair amount of express. Or could >I be >mistaken? > >Bob > > >Robert A. Boyd >Those Classic Trains >"Beginning A Century-Long Tradition Of Fine Modelmaking." > >========================================================== > >"The Limited" On Line - http://www.thoseclassictrains.com >The Golden Age Of Railroad Passenger Service > > > >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 08:41:18 EST Subject: Re: Class PL85 / BL85 Content-Length: 447 In a message dated 98-03-04 11:30:15 EST, I wrote : << For some reason, the similar cars on the Jeffersonian and Trailblazer were listed as BLB85R--don't know what the R means. >> Typo. Should have read PLB85R. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 09:22:41 EST Subject: P2K E7 Content-Length: 624 OK, here is a "duh" question. These units run smooth as glass on DCC, but what in the heck is the white background around the cab entrance steps? I have seen one or two F units which look to be light colored there (sheet metal protection added?) I have seen protective paper there during painting and delivery. "But I have never seen an elephant fly", or an E7 with this. Any help out there? Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 05 Mar 98 09:28:33 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: Re: Princeton area towers Content-Length: 595 >2. Crossovers were removed 12 or so years ago except for the one trailing >point to the branch. Nassau was remoted to Midway [Monmouth Junction] >which was then remoted to Fair [Trenton] > >MEA I thought the corridor was completely controlled by a centralized location (Philadelphia? D.C.?). But this is modern stuff, and this isn't an Amtrak list... -- Doug Drew ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 09:30:27 -0500 From: Drew McGhee Subject: Re: PRR Whistles (was GG-1 sound) Content-Length: 1341 Greetings to the group, One person who has or has access to many of the PRR whistles is Roger Granlund. He puts together the anual whistle blow here in Altoona. This event features whistles, horns and sirens of all types. Ever hear a WWII destroyer steam siren up close? Anyway Roger works here at Penn State, though I think he may have retired this year. His son works here at Altoona with me so he should be rather easy to contact. Roger will be part of Penn State Altoona's "1998 Railroad Heritage Conference, The Railroad in American Life." He will be doing a presentation on whistles and bringing many to actually operate. He uses compressed air. >From what I understand, whistles will sound different with compressed compared to the way they would sound with steam. Has something to do with density, condenstation and warm whistle verses cold. If the sound module companies are serious about recording the actual sounds from the real whistles, Roger would be the guy to talk to. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA http://www.personal.psu.edu Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA http://www.personal.psu.edu/drm6 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 09:42:29 EST Subject: Re: Class PL85 / BL85 Content-Length: 730 In a message dated 98-03-05 09:22:28 EST, Bob Boyd wrote: << I believe they may have had a square end obs after the war, but I am not sure. >> The POC85 (POC85AR in the Wayner book?) listed in the 1950 consist of the Trailblazer does appear to be squareend, replacing the round-end POC70 sometime after the war. Getting back to the PLB85, you deduce that ACF might be the builder. The P85BR coaches were built by PRR and ACF, so I would agree that ACF seems like a good starting point. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Everyone's a PRR modeller Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 10:00:17 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 661 We've seen this going around in various mailing lists, because you see PRR boxcars *everywhere* in photos, but this one struck me just yesterday: in the new "Model Railroad Planning", topleft on page 50, there's a shot of an SP 70-tonner, at Myrtle Point, Oregon (ie, middle of bloody nowhere), and you see a sliver of a shadow keystone on the first car it's pulling. It might even be an X29, since it's no taller than the switcher. Dennis ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Class PLB85 Date: Thu, 5 Mar 98 11:17:09 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 956 On 3/5/98 10:42 AM, Bobspf (Bobspf@aol.com) wrote: >Getting back to the PLB85, you deduce that ACF might be the builder. The >P85BR coaches were built by PRR and ACF, so I would agree that ACF seems >like >a good starting point. I did find an elevation and floor plan for the PLB85. Unfortunately, it doesn't reveal the builder. However, PRR or ACF does sound logical. There's no evidence of fluting on the sides or roof, so it probably was not Budd. Anyway, I now have what I need to have sides made up by Union Station Products. 8-) --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: David Carey Subject: Marginally PRR-related question Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 09:29:39 -0700 Content-Length: 392 Are the Rivarossi-AHM-IHC heavyweight coaches and heavyweight combines based on prototypes or are they the figment of a modelmaker's fertile imagination? The world wants to know. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harmantas, Andrew G." Subject: RE: P2K E7 Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:31:41 -0500 Content-Length: 848 > OK, here is a "duh" question.... butwhat in the heck is the white > background around the cab entrance steps? I don't have one handy, but it may be P2K's rendition of the stainless steel, or aluminum kick plate that most (but not all) RR's specified for the side steps/ladders, and at the bottom of the door. I've seen these on in service units in bright pristine metal, as well as painted over, and various stages in between. A stainless or aluminum kick plate with a brushed finish can appear close to white. Hey! Good a guess as any! Andrew Harmantas, SPF, waiting to see the trains at C&O Milepost FM Zero. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gripp, William [NCS]" Subject: FS: HO Brass - Eastern Steam Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 14:39:23 -0500 Content-Length: 672 Empire Midland NYNH&H "800" 4-6-0. Mint in original box. Missing 1 side rod screw but has all rods. $250 GEM PRR 0-8-0. NOB $300 Alco/Kobra PRR N2sa 2-10-2. Original box, painted but some brass showing in spots. $350 NPP NYO&W 4-6-0 camelback. Original box, factory painted but a couple of bare spots. Missing one rod pin but has all rods. $235 Shipping is additional. Bill Gripp wgripp@prius.jnj.com (908) 429-6118 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 14:31:34 -0500 From: Stan Feldman Subject: N.Y.'s Penn Station To Be Revamped Content-Length: 2318 By RONALD POWERS WASHINGTON - Boosters of the long-running effort to convert the old Farley Post Office on Manhattan's West Side into a new Pennsylvania Station cleared a final hurdle Wednesday when the Postal Service agreed to give up much of the building. ``I am happy to announce that an accord has been reached on Penn Station and plans to restore the James Farley Post Office Building are now under way,'' President Clinton said. Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan, D-N.Y., for the last six years has been working to reclaim some of the city's grace that vanished when the original landmark Penn Station was demolished more than three decades ago. ``There's more than a train station involved; it's a rebirth,'' Moynihan said in an interview. ``I didn't know whether it was ever going to happen.'' It was not immediately clear how much of the huge building - which stretches between Eighth and Ninth avenues - the Postal Service will give up, but Moynihan said it will be a significant amount. Much of the mail sorting and other operations done in the building will be relocated elsewhere in the city. The cost of the project is budgeted at $315 million, and construction on the renovations will begin shortly. The centerpiece of the new station, which will house Amtrak and other rail connections, will be the huge central court under a skylight. It is now a workspace for letter carriers, but will one day be a grand public hall leading to train platforms. ``The concourse will be up and running in five years time,'' Moynihan predicted. The original Penn Station was built in 1910 and was demolished in 1963 to make room for a sleek office tower and Madison Square Garden. *********************************************************** STAN'S RAILPIX-- Railroad Photo Gallery ! http://www.trainweb.com/railpix ****************************************************** Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it !! *********************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gripp, William [NCS]" Subject: FS: Atlas HO PC SD35s Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 15:10:00 -0500 Content-Length: 373 Atlas HO scale SD35s, PC factory paint, mint condition original box. 2 @ $65 each plus shipping. Bill Gripp wgripp@prius.jnj.com (908) 429-6118 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 13:27:35 -0500 From: Charlie Weber Subject: Re: shortest scheduled service Content-Length: 2604 I believe Sunnyside was only a yard facility & did not have a station. No passengers to or from Sunnyside> Charlie -----Original Message----- From: Michael E. Allen To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 11:31 PM Subject: Re: shortest scheduled service >I checked a couple of ETTs to confirm this and, while there is a slight >variance over the years, from Princeton Jct to the current Princeton >Statation is 2.7 and has never exceeded 2.8 wile from NYP to Sunnyside >varies from 3.0 to 3.7 > >MEA >______________________________ >PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY PTRMgtSvc@Juno.com >Management Services Telephone >609-683-0356 > >On Wed, 4 Mar 1998 21:50:04 -0600 rboydrrs@inlink.com (Robert A. Boyd) >writes: >>>In a message dated 98-03-04 13:15:11 EST, George.Pierson@trnty.edu >>writes: >>> >>>> is this the shortest scheduled train service in the US today? >>>> >>>I believe so, unless you count subways. The Times Square-Grand >>>Central line would be shorter. >>> >>>Rich Copeland >> >>===== >> >>Well how about intercity service? For instance, there is the Penn >>Station >>to Sunnyside run (NYC to New Jersey). I doubt if many passengers get >>off >>there, but there is likely still a fair amount of express. Or could >>I be >>mistaken? >> >>Bob >> >> >>Robert A. Boyd >>Those Classic Trains >>"Beginning A Century-Long Tradition Of Fine Modelmaking." >> >>========================================================== >> >>"The Limited" On Line - http://www.thoseclassictrains.com >>The Golden Age Of Railroad Passenger Service >> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------- >>For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >>"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >>"listmaster@dsop.com". >> > >_____________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com >Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Marginally PRR-related question From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 98 15:46:19 -0500 Content-Length: 928 The Rivarossi-AHM-IHC heavyweight coach is (I think)a SOO Line prototype (or some other obsure choice). The Combine is ATSF. In any event neither is PRR. If you want PRR heavyweights, stick to the Bachman cars or the Eastern Car works kits. They are all PRR prototype. regards, Andy Miller - ---------------- Are the Rivarossi-AHM-IHC heavyweight coaches and heavyweight combines based on prototypes or are they the figment of a modelmaker's fertile imagination? The world wants to know. - ------------------------------------------------------------ For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: New mailing list: PRR2000 Date: Thu, 5 Mar 98 15:58:22 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1768 Announcing a new mailing list: On 2/17/98 7:36 PM, Kevin Tully (t1duplex@hotmail.com) wrote: >"PRR2000" >"This is a email talk group to discuss and promote the idea of 'What if >the Pennsylvania Railroad never was merged with New York Central.' We >are working on the promulgation of the PRR and how it would have evolved >into a modern day Class 1." This is run from my server, but having "theoretical" conversations on another list will keep the peace on "PRR-Talk". A digest is available, so those with only a casual interest, I suggest you subscribe to the digest version. It will also help the server out. "PRR-Talk" will continue to address prototype and modeling concerns relative to the REAL Pennsy, which died an aweful death. The exception