Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:38:41 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Novatach Erie-Builts Content-Length: 967 Mine finally arrived this AM. I did get a chance to take a look at them before coming in to work. The detail isn't fantastic, but it's better than some of the trainset-quality stuff I have. Would I buy them if I could have seen them first? Yes Was it worth the wait? Maybe Will I buy their C-Liners? Well, the quality of the Erie-Builts is better than the AHM/IHC C-Liner shell, but I'm not sure if it's worth the extra $$$. If I do I'll try to find a hobby shop willing to order it for me. I don't want to do it myself again. -D ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Boxes Date: Mon, 1 Dec 97 13:27:50 -0400 From: "Jerry Britton" Content-Length: 979 I am (or am about to be) in the process of building numerous passenger cars using parts from numerous vendors...sides from USP, core kits from ECW, trucks from MDC, couplers from Kadee, etc., etc., etc. Does anyone know if anyone sells empty cardboard boxes like those that kits (like Athearn's) come in? They'd need to be 12" plus long. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com 1 JPEG = 1K words ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harmantas, Andrew G." Subject: RE: more on the Florida trains Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:51:39 -0500 Content-Length: 1564 > According to a 1938 ACL Timetable the East Coast Champion originated > in > Boston and traveled to NYC on the NYNH&H, then to Washington on the > PRR > powered by a GG1 I assume, from Washington to Richmond on the RF&P, > and from > Richmond to Miami via the ACL and the FEC via Jacksonville. The > Trains were > diesel powered south of Richmond. > __________________________ > Just one small point that is obvious to most. In fact, all passenger > trains (from all railroads) were diesel powered southbound from Union > Station, Washington, D.C.. The electric overhead continued south to > Potomac Yard where Pennsy (and others) freight trains terminated and > interchanged. Not too long ago, "Pot Yard" was full of Pennsy > traction and an occasional diesel, all in grungy green. The tuscan > stuff was serviced at the Ivy City facility just outside of Union > Station. What a time that was, getting to see Pennsy electrics > pulling long freights on one track, while on a parallel track an RF&P > passenger train whipped by hauled by a Governor class 4-8-4. > Andrew Harmantas, SPF, among others ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Boxes for Completed Kits Date: Mon, 1 Dec 97 14:08:48 -0400 From: "Jerry Britton" Content-Length: 1427 On 12/1/97 2:54 PM, Rob Schoenberg (robs@protocol.zycad.com) wrote: >Well, according to the Walthers web site. Athearn does sell the empty boxes. >Don't remember how much they were though... > >>I am (or am about to be) in the process of building numerous passenger >>cars using parts from numerous vendors...sides from USP, core kits from >>ECW, trucks from MDC, couplers from Kadee, etc., etc., etc. >> >>Does anyone know if anyone sells empty cardboard boxes like those that >>kits (like Athearn's) come in? >> >>They'd need to be 12" plus long. Thank you! (Though they are out of stock!) Athearn Inc 140 76300 Kit box 7.5" H 1.00 Y Athearn Inc 140 76301 Kit box 10.5" H 1.25 N 12/07/1997 Athearn Inc 140 76302 Kit box 12.5" H 1.50 N 12/07/1997 --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com 1 JPEG = 1K words ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:16:11 -0500 Subject: Last GG1 run? From: sjfitch@juno.com (Samuel J Fitch) Content-Length: 682 Dear List Members, Could someone help me with a little information as to when the last run of a GG1 occurred? Was it by NJ Transit? The road number, date and route would be appreciated. Thank You, Samuel J. Fitch sjfitch@juno.com 1John 5:12 ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 01 Dec 97 13:48:42 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: RE: more on the Florida trains Content-Length: 6012 --====54485052515755484951===1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" >> In fact, all passenger >> trains (from all railroads) were diesel powered southbound from Union >> Station, Washington, D.C. Andrew -- note the year referred to in the original message -- 1938. Unless Coast Line (and Seaboard) were running their diesels through to Washington, Florida trains between DC and Richmond were probably STEAM powered, with those beautiful Governor-class 4-8-4's you refer to. I don't believe RF&P had passenger diesels until after the war, but I could be wrong (I am so often!). Harmantas, Andrew G. wrote: > > > > >> According to a 1938 ACL Timetable the East Coast Champion originated >> in >> Boston and traveled to NYC on the NYNH&H, then to Washington on the >> PRR >> powered by a GG1 I assume, from Washington to Richmond on the RF&P, >> and from >> Richmond to Miami via the ACL and the FEC via Jacksonville. The >> Trains were >> diesel powered south of Richmond. >> __________________________ >> Just one small point that is obvious to most. In fact, all passenger >> trains (from all railroads) were diesel powered southbound from Union >> Station, Washington, D.C.. The electric overhead continued south to >> Potomac Yard where Pennsy (and others) freight trains terminated and >> interchanged. Not too long ago, "Pot Yard" was full of Pennsy >> traction and an occasional diesel, all in grungy green. The tuscan >> stuff was serviced at the Ivy City facility just outside of Union >> Station. What a time that was, getting to see Pennsy electrics >> pulling long freights on one track, while on a parallel track an RF&P >> passenger train whipped by hauled by a Governor class 4-8-4. >> > Andrew Harmantas, SPF, among others > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a >cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". --====54485052515755484951===1 Subject: Re: Boxes Date: Mon, 01 Dec 97 13:54:23 -0500 From: Rob Schoenberg Content-Length: 1017 Well, according to the Walthers web site. Athearn does sell the empty boxes. Don't remember how much they were though... Rob >I am (or am about to be) in the process of building numerous passenger >cars using parts from numerous vendors...sides from USP, core kits from >ECW, trucks from MDC, couplers from Kadee, etc., etc., etc. > >Does anyone know if anyone sells empty cardboard boxes like those that >kits (like Athearn's) come in? > >They'd need to be 12" plus long. > >--------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harmantas, Andrew G." Subject: RE: more on the Florida trains Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:00:36 -0500 Content-Length: 1843 I must have missed the 1938 time frame. I doubt any of the southern lines were using diesel power on their trains back then, north or south of Richmond. Slightly off topic point: not all passenger runs between D.C. and Richmond were pulled by RF&P power. I did see both Seaboard and ACL diesels operating through Alexandria and by Pot Yard, along with Southern and C&O trains, all of which used Pennsy tracks between Pot Yard and Union Station. I can tell you, around 1950 the place was very colorful and noisy, with fast moving, non-mufflered diesels (don't know why this thing keeps defaulting to Itallics) and equally fast moving steam, with B&O and Southern and C&O 2-8-2's blowing off steam (literally) on the engine track at Pot Yard. All of this was taken in where Glebe Road intersects with Jefferon-Davis Highway (US Route 1) in Arlington . Wish I had a camera back then--I coulda been another Joe Collias, or a C. W. Witback, or somebody.n tell can tell you---------- > Andrew -- note the year referred to in the original message -- 1938. > Unless Coast Line (and Seaboard) were running their diesels through to > Washington, Florida trains between DC and Richmond were probably STEAM > powered, with those beautiful Governor-class 4-8-4's you refer to. I > don't > believe RF&P had passenger diesels until after the war, but I could be > wrong > (I am so often!). > > ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:37:01 -0500 (EST) From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: PRR box cars Content-Length: 1940 In a message dated 97-12-01 09:14:13 EST, asmiller@mail11.mitre.org writes: << It appears as if among C&BT (X29 rebuids and X43's), Red Caboose(X29's) and Bowser (X31's) almost all of the 40-50's era PRR boxcar need may be met with accurate kits. Now for an X37, hmmm. >> Andy, we also need a good plastic version of the X26, X26c, X28a, X37b, X38, X41b and X44 to cover the major early 1950's classes. The X26 is available fro Tichy in a flat resing kit but thus is not easily assembled. The Accurail versionis actually a CN/CP car and is very wrong for the PRR. Below is a list of total cars by class in 1952. CLASS 1952 ARA 1 X23 34 X23A 37 X23B 257 X24 1 X25 153 X25A 103 X25D 6 X26 4221 X26A 1 X26C 3476 X28A 3785 X29 24533 X29A 1 X29B 4404 X29C 4 X29D UNDER CONSTRUCTION X30 1 X31 447 X31A SGL DOOR 6618 X31A DBL DOOR 605 X31B 1182 X31C 802 X31F 688 X32 58 X32A 693 X32B 879 X32C 113 X33 48 X33A 296 X35 1 X36 1 X37 993 X37A 497 X37B 1485 X38 2297 X38A 595 X38B 1 X40 5 X40A 4 X40B 100 X40C 1 X41 288 X41A 199 X41B 1493 X41C 498 X43 500 X43A 1498 X43B 2995 X43C 1499 X44 1248 Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 15:08:01 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: more on the Florida trains Content-Length: 1175 Harmantas, Andrew G. wrote: > > I must have missed the 1938 time frame. I doubt any of the southern > lines were using diesel power on their trains back then, north or south > of Richmond. > It would have been a few years later, but around 1940, '41, or '42 I rode the Southerner from New Orleans to New York & return. I would have been 4, 5, or 6 years old, so I can't pinpoint the year (it was positively not after 1942), but it was definitely pulled by a diesel - I well recall the horn blowing for all the grade crossings, the first I remember after a lifetime (!) of train riding. If anyone can date the streamlining of the Southerner, that would help pin things down on at least one train south of Wash. D. C. Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: PRR box cars From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 97 15:48:41 -0500 Content-Length: 1670 Rich, Sorry, perhaps I should have said MAJOR classes. Eliminating all of the one-of-a-kinds etc. your list looks like this: >CLASS 1952 >X26 4221 >X26C 3476 >X28A 3785 >X29 24533 >X29B 4404 >X31 447 >X31A SGL DOOR 6618 >X31A DBL DOOR 605 >X31B 1182 >X31C 802 >X31F 688 >X32A 693 >X32B 879 >X37 993 >X37A 497 >X37B 1485 >X38 2297 >X38A 595 >X41B 1493 >X41C 498 >X43 500 >X43A 1498 >X43B 2995 >X43C 1499 >X44 1248 > I was thinking just of the 40 footers; but you are right, there were many 50 footers (and 60!!) as well. Tichy makes a PMcK&Y USRA rebuild which I consider a reasonable stand-in for the X26c. It has the right roof, Youngstown doors and ends and the telltale angle construction at the base of the sides where the new wide box was applied to the old narrow frame; but the car is a foot too low. Perhaps this is a measure of my standards more than anything else. Many of these cars have been made in resin, usually by Sunshine, but I was only considering styrene. regards Andy Miller ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:55:34 -0500 (EST) From: VVA249@aol.com Subject: It's amazing what you run into - when you're not really looking Content-Length: 1130 My College - Mount Union of Alliance Ohio - is in the "final four" of the NCAA Division III (small college) playoffs. I went looking for info on our next opponent Simpson College of Indianola Iowa. What I found was a professor named Dick Tinder who in addition to managing the College's computers, their web site and teaching Computer Sciences also teaches a CREDIT COURSE on "Railfanning in Iowa" Humanities 290 complete with "train watching" and museum visits ! This must be a "labor of love" and in addition to all other assigned duties......... Does anyone know of any College doing anything like this ? Dick Ross ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 17:19:53 -0500 From: Brian Brooks Subject: Re: PRR box cars Content-Length: 2123 At 09:04 AM 12/1/97 -0500, you wrote: >Also under "New Product Announcements" they list their PRR rebuilds, the >X29b's and X29d's :-))). They are listed as "special order". I intend to >have my dealer special order it ASAP! > >I already built one of their X43c's and was impressed with the accuracy. They >have abandonded many of their old, terrible castings, and replaced them with >Tichy stuff. > >It appears as if among C&BT (X29 rebuids and X43's), Red Caboose(X29's) and >Bowser (X31's) almost all of the 40-50's era PRR boxcar need may be met with >accurate kits. Now for an X37, hmmm. > >regards >Andy Miller I was under the impression that the X43 series had diagonal panel roofs. The C&BT kits lettered for the PRR X43c that I've seen did not reflect this. Was this an older release or do I have my details wrong? In any case, I'm definetly going to try the new X29b and X29d kits. A freshly painted X29d with the "Don't Stand Me Still!" slogan would be inspiring. Since the Tichy USRA boxcar kit was mentioned in this string, I have another question. I had intended to build up one of these to represent an X26. However, since I model Autumn 1955, I had some reservations. Was the number of X26 still in revenue service large enough to justify it appearing on my layout? Also, even if I used the Youngstown doors and added AB brakes, wouldn't the as-built roof be incorrect for a car this late in its life? Would lettering it for MoW service be an more plausible option. I haven't ran across any photos of X26 in MoW paint, although I haven't really looked that hard. I'd like to have this kit on my PRR roster. Brian Brooks ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 08:24:11 -0800 From: "Linda T. Miedema - Stafford" Subject: Don't want anymore e-mails Content-Length: 553 Please do not sent me anymore of your e-mails. I don't know how my e-mail address got to you, but please drop it. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: RE: Cabin Cars Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:07:05 -0600 Content-Length: 883 I don't know if they appear elsewhere on lists, but Terre Haute, IN, has an N6B (I am almost sure) in a park and Shipshawana (sp?), IN (Amish country) has an N8 (?? I am really in memory lock on this one, if someone can confirm the model, please) right across from the combination dry goods store and bed and breakfast. Both in good condition. The Shipshawana cabin was open to walk through a couple years ago, at least. Bob Zoeller Fox Point, WI ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: RE: K-5 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:23:53 -0600 Content-Length: 2274 H. Mummert wrote: " maybe they could come out with parts to change bachmanns cars... I.E. roofs,doors,window inserts,etc...like the ones you can get to change ahm-rivarossi-ihc cars.would love to have the arch roof on some of my bachmann P-70 cars." You can buy the arch roofs from Bethlehem car works (I think they are long enough --they were for the M70--will check tonight), or you could buy the whole kit with arch roof from Eastern Car Works(P70FAR and P70FBR - one arch, one streamlined roof --forget which). There was a comment questioning how ECW could continue offering these P70's in face of Bachmann. I tend to agree with the niceties of interiors and lights on Bachmann, but ECW are still finer scale kits, IMHO, and since I don't like the colors on Bachmann, I am into painting anyway. I still own a string of 10 of the Bachman's though, since it was a fast way of getting a long string which would run on 24" curves. I previously mentioned repainting and restriping and lettering the D70 diner --try it --looks spectacular correctly painted,striped and lettered! BTW, the Bachman 30's color scheme they put out did have a better Tuscan (again, IMHO) and the olive underbody and roof under room lighting is not far from a grimy black, so I have been using these P70 and PB70s in with my other make cars. Regards to the faithful. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 18:57:26 -0500 From: Chris Brandt Subject: Re: Last GG1 run? Content-Length: 1520 Samuel J Fitch wrote: > > Dear List Members, > > Could someone help me with a little > information as to when the last run > of a GG1 occurred? > > Was it by NJ Transit? > > The road number, date and route > would be appreciated. > > Thank You, > > Samuel J. Fitch > sjfitch@juno.com > 1John 5:12 The last run of a GG1 was on Saturday, October 29, 1983. There were three ceremonial runs between Matawan and Newark featuring No.s 4877(in tuscan red 5-stripe), 4879(NJT black), and 4882(NJT black). The last scheduled revenue run was on Friday, October 28, 1983. No. 4879(NJT black) hauling train No. 3323, the 5:20 p.m. out of Pennsylvania Station, NY to the locomotive change at South Amboy. Yes, it was NJ Transit. Hope this helps. -Chris -- _______ ____________\ /____________ __________\ P /__________ ___________\ R R /___________ ____________\ /____________ _____________\___/_____________ Chris Brandt cobrandt@eclipse.net http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/ ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 23:25:52 -0800 From: ironhorse@sprintmail.com Subject: Re: Boxes Content-Length: 1557 Jerry Britton wrote: > > I am (or am about to be) in the process of building numerous passenger > cars using parts from numerous vendors...sides from USP, core kits from > ECW, trucks from MDC, couplers from Kadee, etc., etc., etc. > > Does anyone know if anyone sells empty cardboard boxes like those that > kits (like Athearn's) come in? > > They'd need to be 12" plus long. > > --------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator > Progressive Information Technologies > britton@pit-magnus.com > http://www.pit-magnus.com > 1 JPEG = 1K words > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a > cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . > ------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". Jerry, Athearn sells their boxes empty. Write or call and ask for prices. Charlie Fox ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: New "Keystone" Is Out Date: Tue, 2 Dec 97 08:43:19 -0400 From: "Jerry Britton" Content-Length: 1239 Yesterday I received the new (Winter 1997) issue of "The Keystone". It features an article on railfanning around Harrisburg, Pa. 8-) The article is similar to the full issue article on Baltimore that ran a few years back. Not quite as extensive, but still quite good. Rather than approaching the topic from a historical perspective, it is a recollection of the author's memories of Harrisburg. Some excellent photos, some notes on operations, some trackage plans and maps, and a history of the passenger station highlight the article. Hmmm. Maybe I ought to volunteer to write about York.... --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com 1 JPEG = 1K words ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 2 Dec 97 8:25:10 EST From: Subject: re: Cabin Cars Content-Length: 2319 Do you know there is a PRR N5c in the courtyard of the Susquenita Middle School in Duncanon, Pa (at last I think it is Duncannon). I believe the scholl students helped to restore it. I've seen it from a distance and it looks pretty good. Don't know the number though, maybe some one else does. K. Kollar ------------- Original Text From: Roger Kirkpatrick , on 11/30/97 9:17 PM: Hody, A couple of questions concerning preserved cabin cars: Felton, DE, PRR # &/or PC #? Lewes, DE, DCLR 1000, PRR #? Wyoming, DE, #?, location? Winslow, NJ. PRR # &/or Amtrak #? East Emporium, PA, #?, location? Lickville, PA, #?, Rt 72, near I-81; Mill Hall, PA, #?, Station Restaurant; Minorville, PA, #?, near Reading Depot; Pecan, PA, #?, Vision Quest; Newport, RI, #?, Old Colony & Newport. Thanks for any help you can give with these question. Cheers, Roger P.S. Lots more questions in places like IN, MI, NY, and OH! _______ S. Roger Kirkpatrick ______|_____| [ ] |___________ 927 Colegate Drive | | | | Marietta, OH 45750 | | [ ] [ ] | | | | | | Fax - 614-376-4777 |__|______________________|__| Home - 614-374-6732 O<=>O O<=>O ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Robert Johnston Subject: RE: PRR-Talk Digest - 12/02/97 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:27:49 -0500 Content-Length: 536 Is there a list archive ? Is it searchable? Is there interest in having a searchable list archive? TIA rwj ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: PRR box cars From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 97 08:33:38 -0500 Content-Length: 2119 . . . >>It appears as if among C&BT (X29 rebuids and X43's), Red Caboose(X29's) and >>Bowser (X31's) almost all of the 40-50's era PRR boxcar need may be met with >>accurate kits. Now for an X37, hmmm. >> >>regards >>Andy Miller > > >I was under the impression that the X43 series had diagonal panel roofs. >The C&BT kits lettered for the PRR X43c that I've seen did not reflect this. >Was this an older release or do I have my details wrong? In any case, I'm >definetly going to try the new X29b and X29d kits. A freshly painted X29d >with the "Don't Stand Me Still!" slogan would be inspiring. > >Since the Tichy USRA boxcar kit was mentioned in this string, I have another >question. I had intended to build up one of these to represent an X26. >However, since I model Autumn 1955, I had some reservations. Was the number >of X26 still in revenue service large enough to justify it appearing on my >layout? Also, even if I used the Youngstown doors and added AB brakes, >wouldn't the as-built roof be incorrect for a car this late in its life? >Would lettering it for MoW service be an more plausible option. I haven't >ran across any photos of X26 in MoW paint, although I haven't really looked >that hard. I'd like to have this kit on my PRR roster. > >Brian Brooks - ------ Brian, The Tichy car I spoke of was the rebuilt all-steel x26c and some of them were certainly around in 1955. As for the roof of the x43, I'll have to go back to my library and check your assertion that they had a diagonal stamped roof. I thought they were Murphy roofs, like the C&BT kit. Anyone else on line know? (Rich?) regards Andy Miller ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 08:56:55 -0500 From: "s.a. mccall" Subject: Re: more on the Florida trains Content-Length: 801 Greetings, The "Southerner" was a daily all coach train from New York and New Orleans. Service started in early 1941. Power was EMD E6's. Shooting from memory but think it was "streamlined" from the beginning. Used lightweight coaches with stainless steel bodies. If some one has one look in the 42 or 43 Car Builders Cyclopedia. Sincerely, S.A. McCALL hosam ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:39:40 -0500 (EST) From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: PRR box cars Content-Length: 1247 In a message dated 97-12-02 08:58:06 EST, asmiller@mail11.mitre.org writes: << The Tichy car I spoke of was the rebuilt all-steel x26c and some of them were certainly around in 1955. As for the roof of the x43, I'll have to go back to my library and check your assertion that they had a diagonal stamped roof. I thought they were Murphy roofs, like the C&BT kit. Anyone else on line know? (Rich?) >> I am at work and will need to check material at home. Please remember the primary differences among the X43 subclasses was the manufacturer except the X43C which has an 8 foot door instead of the seven on the other cars. Again I don't have the information at hand, but weren't the X43C the cars leased from Chicago car company? This may explain a different roof on the X43C. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: New "Keystone" Is Out Date: Tue, 2 Dec 97 12:25:19 -0400 From: "Jerry Britton" Content-Length: 1987 On 12/2/97 1:11 PM, LINESWEST@aol.com (LINESWEST@aol.com) wrote: >WEll, its good to know that they've finally have appected that this is is the >1990s and the days of hot lead and zinc half-tones dipped inn acid baths are >long over. I hope this guy has heard about HTML. As a recent new member of the PRRT&HS (1997) and as someone who has worked in the publishing business for ten years, I must comment that "The Keystone" is one of the finest magazines out there. The quality of paper and the inks are first rate! I am not so critical of the photos, as we don't know how good the originals are. Remember, the PRR has been gone for 30 years! The design (layout, fonts, etc.) of "The Keystone" are, overall, well planned and pleasing to the eye. "The Keystone", by itself, is worth the cost of membership in the PRRT&HS. As for you last comment, the PRRT&HS already missed the boat, err loco, on the Internet. There was a time when many of us were willing to help. They didn't want it, so we (myself, Mark, others) created our own shrines to the Pennsy. Short of putting past "Keystone"'s on the net (which they won't do, due to the income they bring in otherwise), I don't think there is ANYTHING the PRRT&HS can do on the net that will truly be a "draw" to those of us who have been surfing for the past year or two. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com 1 JPEG = 1K words ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:38:35 -0500 (EST) From: Roger Kirkpatrick Subject: Cabin Cars Content-Length: 1037 I'll add the Terre Haute car to the list. I THINK the Shipshewana car is PRR 478398/PC 19389, anyone know for certain? Thanks, Roger _______ S. Roger Kirkpatrick ______|_____| [ ] |___________ 927 Colegate Drive | | | | Marietta, OH 45750 | | [ ] [ ] | | | | | | Fax - 614-376-4777 |__|______________________|__| Home - 614-374-6732 O<=>O O<=>O ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:11:11 -0500 (EST) From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: Re: New "Keystone" Is Out Content-Length: 943 I also got mine yesterday. I found an interesting tidbit of information on pg. 3: "Flash! Addition to Keystone Staff "Mike Coyne has joined our staff ands has begun providing digital imaging services to enhance presentation. More information on Mike will appear in our next issue." WEll, its good to know that they've finally have appected that this is is the 1990s and the days of hot lead and zinc half-tones dipped inn acid baths are long over. I hope this guy has heard about HTML. Tom Vondruska ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 15:26:27 -0500 From: Brian Brooks Subject: Re: PRR box cars Content-Length: 1941 At 09:39 AM 12/2/97 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 97-12-02 08:58:06 EST, asmiller@mail11.mitre.org writes: > ><< > The Tichy car I spoke of was the rebuilt all-steel x26c and some of them >were > certainly around in 1955. As for the roof of the x43, I'll have to go back > > to my library and check your assertion that they had a diagonal stamped >roof. > I thought they were Murphy roofs, like the C&BT kit. Anyone else on line > know? (Rich?) > >> >I am at work and will need to check material at home. Please remember the >primary differences among the X43 subclasses was the manufacturer except the >X43C which has an 8 foot door instead of the seven on the other cars. Again >I don't have the information at hand, but weren't the X43C the cars leased >from Chicago car company? This may explain a different roof on the X43C. > >Rich Orr Andy and Rich, I went back and checked my references and can definetly vouch for diagonal roofs on the X43a and X43b subclasses. The only photo of an X43c that I have is taken at a low angle, so the roof is anyone's guess. A lettering diagram drawn exclusively for the X43c shows a diagonal roof, but that can't be taken as gospel. I'm sure Rich will have something more definitive. Other than the doors and builders, another visible distinction between the subclasses is that the X43a had 12 panel welded sides while the X43b and c were 10 panel riveted cars. What was the PRR class of trucks? Brian Brooks ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "N Campbell" Subject: Box Cars [X-43] Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:32:31 -0500 Content-Length: 2608 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BCFF37.81C3ACA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all' In following the thread on box cars the question of what type roof the = X43s have came up.From the information I have all of these cars had = diagonal paneled roofs.It appears that all car built or rebuilt after = 1950 had these roofs, except the X48s which were PS1 design cars.My = information also shows that some of the X29b cars were also built with = the newer style roof. My suggestion, if you want to use the C&BT cars the ones with the 4-3-1 = ends and the diagonal paneled roof would be the closest. Travel by Rail Neil Campbell Ncampbell@iname.com ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BCFF37.81C3ACA0 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 18:48:33 -0500 From: jlevine@mcls.rochester.lib.ny.us Subject: K-Line PRR F7 Content-Length: 698 Does anyone have any experience using K-Line's new A-B-A latch-up O-Scale? It also has heavyweight cars to match. It looks great, and got good reviews from Toy Train Journal but I have not yet seen it run. For $450, I'd like someone's opinion. Thanks. Jeff Levine ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: more on the Florida trains Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 21:36:28 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 1235 On 2 Dec, Doug Drew wrote: > >> In fact, all passenger > >> trains (from all railroads) were diesel powered southbound from Union > >> Station, Washington, D.C> > > Andrew -- note the year referred to in the original message -- 1938. > > Unless Coast Line (and Seaboard) were running their diesels through to > Washington, Florida trains between DC and Richmond were probably STEAM > powered, with those beautiful Governor-class 4-8-4's you refer to. I > don't believe RF&P had passenger diesels until after the war, but I could > be wrong (I am so often!). A quick flip through Welsh shows an ACL E3A in 1939. SAL got E4As in December 1939. Seaboard had an E4A in February 1939. Dennis PS: Welsh: By Streamliner New York to Florida, Andover Junction, 1993. ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:57:23 -0600 (CST) From: rboydrrs@inlink.com (Robert A. Boyd) Subject: Re: Florida train power at Wash DC Content-Length: 1093 >On 2 Dec, Doug Drew wrote: > >> In fact, all passenger >> trains (from all railroads) were diesel powered southbound from Union >> Station, Washington, D.C> ===== Check me on this, but if I recall correctly, didn't the PRR electrification extend across to Potomac Yard in Alexandria, where the formal transfer took place to RF&P? Bob Boyd Those Classic Trains "Beginning A Century-Long Tradition Of Fine Modelmaking" ____________________________________________ "The Limited" On Line: http://www.thoseclassictrains.com "The Glorious Age Of Railroad Passenger Service" ____ooo___ooo__oo_0000_o_o__________________ ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:02:37 -0600 (CST) From: rboydrrs@inlink.com (Robert A. Boyd) Subject: HTML? Content-Length: 875 >I hope this guy has heard about HTML. > >Tom Vondruska ===== Um; Harrisburg - Toledo Metropolitan Line, right? Traction line back in the 20s? Psycho Those Classic Trains "Beginning A Century-Long Tradition Of Fine Modelmaking" ____________________________________________ "The Limited" On Line: http://www.thoseclassictrains.com "The Glorious Age Of Railroad Passenger Service" ____ooo___ooo__oo_0000_o_o__________________ ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harry W. Fitch IV" Subject: Re: K-5, now P70's Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:14:37 -0500 Content-Length: 1288 Bob Zoeller wrote: BTW, the Bachman 30's color scheme they put out did have a better Tuscan (again, IMHO) and the olive underbody and roof under room lighting is not far from a grimy black, so I have been using these P70 and PB70s in with my other make cars. I have looked over the "older" ones with the olive paint and they do look nice. I have a set of the original Bachmann offerings because I was dumb enough to believe the reports that they were only going to be run once. If I would have waited and it was true, I guess I would have been even dumber! I have at least one of the P70's made when "Alco Models" was offering them before they sold off the models. There is a distinct difference between the Tuscan on the "Alco" and the more "faded Tuscan" on the Bachmann cars. Harry W. Fitch hfitch@maranatha.net Acts 4:12 ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:48:40 -0500 (EST) From: PRRMAN@aol.com Subject: Toledo Branch questions Content-Length: 1400 1. Prior to the mid-1950's reorganization, on which division was the Toledo Branch? 2. The branch originally ran from Toledo Jct., 6.5 miles west of Mansfield, northwest in almost a straight line to Carrothers, then on to Toledo. A 1956 ETT shows the entire branch to be in service. But the same ETT shows both passenger trains staying on the Chicago main to Colsan (0.3 mile west of Bucyrus), then going north on the Sandusky Branch to Carrothers, at which point they join the Toledo Branch. The next ETT in my possession is 1965, by which time the Toledo Jct.-Carrothers portion was gone. I would say it's safe to assume that the passenger trains ran via Colsan from 1956 until the end of passenger service. But when did they begin running this way? Or did they always run this way? Could it be that the PRR, in 1956, was all ready to abandon Toledo Jct- Carrothers, and had already rerouted the passenger trains off the segment? Rich Copeland ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 08:44:33 -0500 From: "s.a. mccall" Subject: early passenger diesels Content-Length: 1195 Greetings, There has been some discussion concerning dates of dieselization on Florida trains. Here is some information on these trains. With respect to the RF&P operations from Richmond, VA to Washington DC, SAL and ACL diesels were hired by the RF&P for the name trains "Orange Blossom Special", "Silver Meteor" and "Champions". SAl bought their diesels in 1938, ACl bought theirs in 1939. RF&P did not buy any passenger diesels until 1949. The RF&P was at one time owned by 6 railroads equally. These roads were; The Pennsylvania Railroad, Atlantic Coast Railroad, Southern Railway, Chesapeake & Ohio Railway, Seaboard Air Line Railway and the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad. All grand old fallen flags........ Sincerely, S.A. McCALL hosam ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Florida train power at Wash DC From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 97 08:48:07 -0500 Content-Length: 791 >Check me on this, but if I recall correctly, didn't the PRR electrification >extend across to Potomac Yard in Alexandria, where the formal transfer took >place to RF&P? > >Bob Boyd - ------- Bob, I don't know that that is true, but it ,makes sense since it would keep the deisels (and steam) out of the tunnels under the Capitol. regards Andy Miller ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gene Chase" Subject: MP-54's Again Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:49:25 -0500 Content-Length: 889 I recently saw a picture of a MP-54 with red and white keystones. Is this typical or did Pennsy also use red and gold ones? Also, when Pennsy rebuilt nrs. 409-450, MP-54s in the Wilmington shops in 1950-53, did they replace all the Hyatt trucks with newer equalized trucks? Does anyone make these in HO? In the picture of 411, they sort of look like modified Commonwealth ones. Gene Chase Up pantographs and roll the Owl-Eyes, dreaming again. Prov 3:5-6 ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: PRR New Products Date: Wed, 3 Dec 97 09:50:46 -0400 From: "Jerry Britton" Content-Length: 4906 Below are PRR (and other items of interest) excerpts from "The Railroad Telegraph" (http://www.walston1.com/trains/rrtel.htm): PROTO 2000 HO: Proto-2000 has announced the road names for the fourth run of the E-7A and E-7B locomotives. As far as quantities, we quote from the Life-Like release letter. "Due to component availability these locomotives will be even more Œlimited¹ run than normal". E-7A Powered Locomotives * PRR (#5841A & #5848A) - Brunswick Green w/5 Stripes E-7B Dummy Locomotive * PRR (#5844B & #5853B) - Brunswick Green w/5 Stripes Delivery is scheduled for February. Prices will be $90.00 per E-7A and $45.00 per E-7B. Samples of the PA-1/PB-1 Diesel Loco were displayed at the Chicago Hobby Show. INITIAL road names... An Undecorated unit will also be available. Initial road names for the non-powered PB-1... An undecorated PB-1 will also be included. Mars lights and dynamic brakes will be available per the prototype. The A unit number boards will also be either original mount or 45 degree mount depending on the prototype. Price will be $90 for the PA-1 and $45 for the PB-1. The PA-1/PB-1 is scheduled to ship from Baltimore on December 15th. The initial run of Phase III GP-9¹s has been received. We still have most road numbers in stock. The price is $85.00 each. We have received and still have all three numbers of the PRR available. Please check our listing. PROTO 2000 N: Proto-2000 has announced their first release of N Scale SW-9/1200 switchers. Shipment is due in November. The following roads will be part of the first release: * Pennsylvania (#8521 & 8529) Brunswick Green The price is projected to be $65 per unit ATLAS - HO We still have the limited run three pack of PRR PS-2 hoppers in stock. The price is $39.98. The Atlas Classic line will also have reruns of the RS-1, RS-3, RSD4/5, RS-11, RSD-12, C-425, C-424 Phase I and C-424 Phase II. WALTHERS - HO Walthers will be offering a Waterfront scene as their "subscription series" for 1998. A car float and ferry slip are part of this offering. The separate cost is $374.86. If you subscribe for the whole scene, the total cost is $314.86; a savings of $60.00. With the subscription, you pay just $44.98, plus tax, per month for seven months. The following models are part of the subscription. * Railroading Along the Waterfront (book) $49.98 * Pier and Traveling Crane Set $74.98 * Municipal Pier Terminal $59.98 * Carfloat Apron $39.98 * Railroad Carfloat $39.98 * Railroad Tugboat (waterline model) $59.98 * Front Street Warehouse $49.98 In addition, the following items will be offered to compliment the Waterfront. * Pier Add-on Kit $19.98 * SW-1 Powered Locomotive ­ Erie, B&O, SP (tiger stripe),Southern, GN, PRR, CNJ, Undec ­ each $79.98 * Stevadore/Dock Worker Figure Set 10/ $19.99 * Street Track Inserts $11.98 * Tug Boat/Carfloat Crew Figure Set 6/ $14.98 * Idler Car Set ­ 3 Flat Cars w/handrails & steps for crew $21.98 STEWART - HO Stewart will be putting their HO C628 diesel into production later in the year (didn¹t say which year tho...). Initial production will be undecorated followed by the PRR and SP. The LV SnowBird scheme has been bumped in favor of the PRR and SP. The LV will be done at a later date. There will be two different pilots, horizontal or vertical headlights and single or dual sand fillers. They will also be doing a Baldwin VO-1000 in HO scale and a 50¹ RBL freight car. RED CABOOSE - HO The PRR X-29 40¹ boxcar is now stock. The cost is $14.95 per car. The first version is a standard PRR Ball Keystone version with twelve different numbers. Red Caboose is sold out of the first run. They will be producing an additional twelve numbers shortly. We still have a good supply in stock but we no longer have all twelve numbers available. The next variation of the X-29 Boxcar is the PRR Shadow Keystone version. This is now available in twelve different road numbers. This model is now in stock. Two different variations are available in the twelve packs. Four cars have "Calendar" style numbers and eight cars have the "Normal" style numbers. The price is $14.95. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com 1 JPEG = 1K words ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:51:11 -0500 (EST) From: TVPedro@aol.com Subject: Re Trains to Florida Content-Length: 754 I took my first train ride to Wash DC when I was 12 years old in 1940 on the B&O. As we pulled into Union Station I was amazed when I saw Green and Purple Steam locomotives, as they were all black in my world. ACL had to be running over the RF & P to get those purple locomotives into Wash. I don't recall seeing any Deisels. ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: Toledo Branch questions (fwd) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 9:53:23 EST Content-Length: 1724 > 2. The branch originally ran from Toledo Jct., 6.5 miles west > of Mansfield, northwest in almost a straight line to Carrothers, > then on to Toledo. A 1956 ETT shows the entire branch to > be in service. But the same ETT shows both passenger trains > staying on the Chicago main to Colsan (0.3 mile west of Bucyrus), > then going north on the Sandusky Branch to Carrothers, at which > point they join the Toledo Branch. Speculation. There's a sizable passenger station in Bucyrus (COLSAN). Also there's a quite sizable station in Crestline, which the beeline Toledo main would have bypassed (it comes off between Mansfield and Crestline, and finding the exact spot today is NOT easy). Perhaps the passenger trains took the routing you give so as to stop in Crestline. > The next ETT in my possession is 1965, by which time the > Toledo Jct.-Carrothers portion was gone. I would say it's safe > to assume that the passenger trains ran via Colsan from 1956 > until the end of passenger service. But when did they begin > running this way? Or did they always run this way? Could it > be that the PRR, in 1956, was all ready to abandon Toledo Jct- > Carrothers, and had already rerouted the passenger trains off > the segment? -- Mark D. Bej bejm@eeg.ccf.org ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harmantas, Andrew G." Subject: RE: Florida train power at Wash DC Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:04:13 -0500 Content-Length: 1018 > Check me on this, but if I recall correctly, didn't the PRR > electrification > extend across to Potomac Yard in Alexandria, where the formal transfer > took place to RF&P? __________________________________- Yes, it did, for freight traffic going to Pot Yard. Passenger electics changed out for diesels at Union Starion, across the river in Washington, D.C. The passenger power was parked and serviced at Ivy City, just NE of Union Station along New York Avenue, where the B&O and Pennsy mains paralleld for a bit, and was the stage for a few races out of town. Neat stuff. ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 97 09:06:07 CST Subject: Forwarded message... Content-Length: 1445 Check me on this, but if I recall correctly, didn't the PRR electrification extend across to Potomac Yard in Alexandria, where the formal transfer took place to RF&P? Bob Boyd ********* Hi, gang, RE the PRR cantenary crossing the Potomac, it most certainly did and freight trains ran through to the RF&P yard at Alexandria. HOWEVER, I am fairly certain that PASSENGER trains had their power changed at Washington's Union Station. Sure, there would have been smoke in the tunnel but not much since they were not that long. I have certainly seen many photos of the Ivy City engine terminal with RF&P, SAL, and ACL power - both diesel and, I think, steam - which would confirm this. Also if I remember rightly (I used to live near Washingtion) the PRR freight line to Pot Yard cut off from the passenger route to Union Station somewhere below New Carrollton. PRR forever! Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: PRR New Products Date: Wed, 03 Dec 97 10:15:47 -0500 From: Rob Schoenberg Content-Length: 1178 >Below are PRR (and other items of interest) excerpts from "The = >Railroad Telegraph" (http://www.walston1.com/trains/rrtel.htm): >Samples of the PA-1/PB-1 Diesel Loco were displayed at the Chicago Hobby >Show. INITIAL road names... An Undecorated unit will also be available. Unfortunately, the undec units for this run only come with the dynamic brake blister on the roof. I'm almost certain that all of the PRR units didn't have this blister. (I finally dug up an Alco builders photo that shows a smooth roof...) Future runs will have undecs without dynamics though. Also, a friend of a friend helped LifeLike out with the Erie PA's and already has a production sample. The model looks great! Can't wait for a PRR one! - Rob ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 97 09:20:47 CST Subject: Answers and Questions... Content-Length: 1786 Hi, gang, RE the Mike Danneman painting in TRAINS Magazine, I got a reply from MIke indicating that he does NOT have prints available. Forgot to bring his address but maybe we should inundate him with polite requrests to make prints available. And now a question: in reading the review in the latest KEYSTONE of the reprint of the ORER from 1952, the reviewer notes the listing of privately owned cars, some of which are milk cars, like the Supplee cars that were used on the Huntingdon & Broad Top, then sent east to Philly on the end of PRR locals. I happen to know that Breyer Ice Cream had a creamery at Port Royal on the Middle Div. I've always assumed that its purpose was to process local milk and send much of the results to their main plant in Philly (this is the same Breyer you can buy today, although I believe their Philly plant was shut down a few years ago). Anyway, did Breyer have their own milk cars, like Supplee? What other private milk companies shipped over the Middle Div.? I've bitten the bullet and created two General American-Pfaudler cars lettered for Breyers for my layout but sure would like to know how close to prototype such an arrangement was. Any ideas? PRR forever! Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: New Freedom Station Date: Wed, 3 Dec 97 11:23:00 -0400 From: "Jerry Britton" Content-Length: 968 Don't know how I missed it twice, but third time through the new Model Railroader I found an American Model Builder's ad in a lower left corner. (Forget the page number and don't have it with me; check the ad index.) Anyway, there's a photo of the new New Freedom Station model. This station was typical of many built at the time. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com 1 JPEG = 1K words ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: New "Keystone" Is Out Date: Wed, 3 Dec 97 12:24:53 -0400 From: "Jerry Britton" Content-Length: 1789 On 12/3/97 1:13 PM, SUVCWORR@aol.com (SUVCWORR@aol.com) wrote: >I don't often find fault or diagree with any of your comments. But I must >disagree with your last sentence. The wealth of information in the Archives >at Lewistown begs to be placed on the internet. At a minimum the catalog of >material (currently be developed) should be on the 'net as a searchable >database. I would not expect the material (mechanical drawings, track >charts, painting diagrams, photos, etc to be published on the net because the >society intends on selling this material to maintain the archives and the >station. What has been posted through the efforts of a few pales in >comparison to the material which the Society has. Rich: How correct you are!!! I had totally forgotten about the archives! Yes, a searchable archive on the 'net would be fantastic! And, it would yeild sales for the society that aren't there now because nobody knows what's available! I suspect that if I ever got to see the archives in person I would die at that location...unable to ever leave! (Same goes for the archives at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania.) --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com 1 JPEG = 1K words ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 11:28:35 -0500 (EST) From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: PRR box cars Content-Length: 1269 In a message dated 97-12-02 08:58:06 EST, asmiller@mail11.mitre.org writes: << The Tichy car I spoke of was the rebuilt all-steel x26c and some of them were certainly around in 1955. As for the roof of the x43, I'll have to go back to my library and check your assertion that they had a diagonal stamped roof. I thought they were Murphy roofs, like the C&BT kit. Anyone else on line know? (Rich?) >> Andy: I checked all my photos and C&BT cars. The X43, X43a, X43b, and X43c all have diagonal panel roofs. The X43c has an 8 foot door. The X43a were the cars leased from Chicago Car leasing denoted by the white triangle above the car number. This was done so that any repairs were charged back to the leasing company. Any C&BT X43 with other than a diagonal panel roof is a production error. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:13:26 -0500 (EST) From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: New "Keystone" Is Out Content-Length: 1699 In a message dated 97-12-02 15:06:51 EST, britton@pit-magnus.com writes: << As for you last comment, the PRRT&HS already missed the boat, err loco, on the Internet. There was a time when many of us were willing to help. They didn't want it, so we (myself, Mark, others) created our own shrines to the Pennsy. Short of putting past "Keystone"'s on the net (which they won't do, due to the income they bring in otherwise), I don't think there is ANYTHING the PRRT&HS can do on the net that will truly be a "draw" to those of us who have been surfing for the past year or two. >> Jerry: I don't often find fault or diagree with any of your comments. But I must disagree with your last sentence. The wealth of information in the Archives at Lewistown begs to be placed on the internet. At a minimum the catalog of material (currently be developed) should be on the 'net as a searchable database. I would not expect the material (mechanical drawings, track charts, painting diagrams, photos, etc to be published on the net because the society intends on selling this material to maintain the archives and the station. What has been posted through the efforts of a few pales in comparison to the material which the Society has. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: New Freedom Station Date: Wed, 03 Dec 97 12:30:48 -0500 From: Rob Schoenberg Content-Length: 1241 Local shop didn't have the station yet but they did have the American Model Builders PRR standard tool house kit. It's a nice kit. A bit later than the Kitbits version. This one is a bit more "functional" looking, no fancy gingerbread. Just started building it. Does anyone have a paint mix for the PRR's light & dark building colors (cream/brown)? Rob >Don't know how I missed it twice, but third time through the new Model >Railroader I found an American Model Builder's ad in a lower left corner. >(Forget the page number and don't have it with me; check the ad index.) > >Anyway, there's a photo of the new New Freedom Station model. This >station was typical of many built at the time. > >--------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 03 Dec 97 12:43:31 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: RE: Answers and Questions... Content-Length: 6293 --====48525549495550544854===1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" It's too bad Kalmbach chose to print the Horse Shoe Curve painting across the gutter of the magazine, foiling those of us with access to color photocopiers with enlarging capabilities (for our own use ONLY, of course). Danneman is no Howard Fogg (yet) but he certainly captured the power and the glory of the PRR in that image. He's nuts if he doesn't make BIG prints and sell them -- Pennsy fans have to be one of the biggest markets in the railfan universe... George.Pierson wrote: >Hi, gang, > >RE the Mike Danneman painting in TRAINS Magazine, I got a reply from MIke >indicating that he does NOT have prints available. Forgot to bring his >address but maybe we should inundate him with polite requrests to make >prints available. > >And now a question: in reading the review in the latest KEYSTONE of the >reprint of the ORER from 1952, the reviewer notes the listing of privately >owned cars, some of which are milk cars, like the Supplee cars that were >used on the Huntingdon & Broad Top, then sent east to Philly on the end of >PRR locals. I happen to know that Breyer Ice Cream had a creamery at Port >Royal on the Middle Div. I've always assumed that its purpose was to >process local milk and send much of the results to their main plant in >Philly (this is the same Breyer you can buy today, although I believe their >Philly plant was shut down a few years ago). Anyway, did Breyer have their >own milk cars, like Supplee? What other private milk companies shipped >over the Middle Div.? I've bitten the bullet and created two General >American-Pfaudler cars lettered for Breyers for my layout but sure would >like to know how close to prototype such an arrangement was. Any ideas? > >PRR forever! > >Sincerely, > >George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu >Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a >cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". --====48525549495550544854===1 Subject: Re: PRR box cars From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 97 13:02:01 -0500 Content-Length: 996 Rich, My recently purchased C&BT X43 has a Murphy roof. It apparently is a "production error" :-( Thanx for the data. Andy Miller >I checked all my photos and C&BT cars. The X43, X43a, X43b, and X43c all >have diagonal panel roofs. The X43c has an 8 foot door. The X43a were the >cars leased from Chicago Car leasing denoted by the white triangle above the >car number. This was done so that any repairs were charged back to the >leasing company. Any C&BT X43 with other than a diagonal panel roof is a >production error. > >Rich Orr > > ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:06:46 -0500 (EST) From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: Toledo Branch questions (fwd) Content-Length: 991 In a message dated 97-12-03 10:28:19 EST, bejm@eeg.ccf.org writes: << Perhaps the passenger trains took the routing you give so as to stop in Crestline. >> Let us not forget that Crestline was the division point and crew chage point. Also, any attempt to join Chicago to Detroit trains with the NY - Detroit and Pgh - Detroit trains would have been more easily accomplished at Crestline.than Toledo Jct. Several years ago Jim Lynch did an article on the Toledo branch in the "Keystone" I check it when I get home for further information. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harmantas, Andrew G." Subject: RE: Forwarded message... Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:22:11 -0500 Content-Length: 1612 > Also if I remember rightly (I used to live near Washingtion) the PRR > freight line to Pot Yard cut off from the passenger route to Union > Station somewhere below New Carrollton. _____________________ Right. The old Pennsy alignment still exists today. The freight line runs along the Anacostia River, around Capital Hill, and the passenger tracks meet up with it again on the elevated tracks around 1st Street and Virginia Avenue, a block or so from the Botanical Garden. The passenger tracks that come south out of Union Station are below ground and emerge from the 1st street Tunnel just prior to rejoining the freight main. "Back in the days", probably as interesting a place to watch trains as nearly anywhere, since between the junction and Pot Yard, one could see B&O, C&O, RF&P, PENNSY (yay!), Southern, Seaboard, Atlantic Coast Line, and I forget what else--all using the same tracks, including ALL the New York to Florida trains. Today, it's Conrail and CSX, with NS and other stuff. A far cry from where I am right now at C&O Milepost FM Zero, where nothing's moving. Must be a maintenance window, or something. PRR forever! Absolutely! ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:08:24 -0500 (EST) From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: Re: Toledo Branch questions Content-Length: 2157 1. The 135.6-mileToledo Branch, from Toledo Jct. in Richland County, Ohio, (located between Mansfielld, the Richland Co. seat, and Crestline in Wyandot County) through Toledo (in part on ANN Arbor trackage) and Monroe, Mich. (on Pere Marquette/C&O trackage) to Detroit Union Station on Fort Street was the oledo Division after the 1920 reorganization. The toledo Division also inclded the 110-mile Sandusky branch.that ran the the northern edge of Grogan Yard in Columbus to the lakeside classification and automatic coal loders in Sandusky Co. 2. "The Toledo Division in 1942" (The Keystone. Vol. 17, No. 1, Spring 1964, pp.6-27) states that the Toledo Branch tracks between Toledo Jct. and Tiro (between New Washington and vernon, SE of Carrothers, NE of Bucyrus) were removed in 1956.. An Aug. 14, 1955 Form 1 (sysytemwide passenger T.T.) doesn't show how the two listed trains the Red Arrow and the Pittsburgh Express (down rom three in 1942) get from Tiffin to Mansfield. The system map included in the timetable show the line from Toledo Jct. to Carrothers as being open with mainline status. Lter timetables show the dogleg through Bucyrus to Carrothers. I don't have any from 1956. According to information contained in the Winter 1997 issue of the Keystone, back copies of this issue are still available from the PRRT&HS for $8. Price includes postage It also has a roster ofToledo Division Motive power in 1942 and a story on Sandusky branch operations, one of the Pennsy's last bastions of steam in 1956. Theree is a story called "Toledo Triogy" in Vol. 20 #3 Autumn 1987 issue which is also available for $8. PRRT&HS P.O. Box 384 Upper Darby, Pa.,19082 hope this helps. Tom Vondruska ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: PRR box cars Date: Wed, 03 Dec 97 15:55:07 -0500 From: Rob Schoenberg Content-Length: 3836 Hi guys, I found this in while cleaning out my mailbox. It's an old post from the freight cars list that answers some of the X43 questions..... ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: freightcars-request@sunny16.photo.tntech.edu Return-Path: Received: from sunny16.photo.tntech.edu by protocol.zycad.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25950; Mon, 15 Sep 97 20:28:56 EDT Received: from emin23.mail.aol.com (emout35.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.64]) by sunny16.photo.tntech.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA02567 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:36:01 -0500 From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emin23.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id TAA20222; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 19:37:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 19:37:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <970915193404_-901430356@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: jeager@visionol.net, nehrij@rpi.edu Cc: freightcars@sunny16.photo.tntech.edu Subject: Re: Pennsy, D&RGW box cars In a message dated 97-09-14 23:07:34 EDT, jeager@visionol.net writes: << >C&BT has kit no. 10205 as a PRR X43, which I believe was lettered no. >602977 (which I believe was actually a X43a). I have that the PRR bought >their X43's from ACF in 1949 (?), but I have no other specs. such as >ends, roof, door, side panels. The series was 603500-603999, with a 7 >foot wide door. >The PRR's X43b were series 600000-601999, built in '50. Diagonal Panel >roof? (Did the first cars have the rectangular panel?) >PRR 70400-71899, X43c, built in '51. Diagonal Panel, right? >Were all the X29d's banana taper end cars? >Was there an X29c? > >C&BT has a double door set for D&RGW, kit no. 10410. I only know of the Rio >Grande's Dreadnaught end DD box cars. - John John, I show: X43 603500-603999 GRNV 12-50 7ft dr X43A 602000-603499 ACF 12-50=2-51 7ft YSD, diag-pan, R+3/4 early IDE (photo of 602000 in '53 Cyce) X43B 85400-86399 PSC 2-51 7ft 7SSD, diag-pan, R+3/4 early IDE 600000-601999 PSC -50=51 7ft dr, diag-pan, R+3/4 early IDE X43C 70400-71899 MtVC 9-51 8ft YSD, diag-pan, R+3/4 early IDE >> Since my memory short circuited again and Jim posted the above, I will build on his response. X43 - height to eaves was 1" taller than the other classes but the height of the running board was the same. At a minimum the pitch of the roof is different and this may indicate a different roof style. I have no pictures of the X43 roof. X43b - width at eaves is 1" greater than the other classes and the height to the extreme width is 3" less. The latter probably because of the superior vs. Youngstown doors. Both 5 and 7 panel Superior doors were used on this class All cars in the 600000 numbers had the 6" white triangle above the car number. This designated the cars for segregated maintenance. The cars were leased from the Chicago Car Co. and all maintenace cost were charged back to Chicago Car Co. X29c originally 6 cars 93650 - 93656 mechanical designation LC The 1963 ORER shows 93655 - 93683 with a total of 27 cars. It should be noted that the same number series 93650 - 93656 are designated X29c and X29d in various ORER issues. Only after the X29d rebuild are they consistent ly referred to as X29c. Rich Orr ------- End of Forwarded Message ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harry W. Fitch IV" Subject: Re: Re Trains to Florida Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:25:47 -0500 Content-Length: 1645 The Southern green cab units could be seen at Ivy City engine terminal in the District itself. At the time I too thought it was neat to see that difference in color when I was a tadpole. Too bad tadpoles don't have cameras! Harry W. Fitch hfitch@maranatha.net Acts 4:12 ---------- > From: TVPedro@aol.com > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re Trains to Florida > Date: Wednesday, December 03, 1997 8:51 AM > > I took my first train ride to Wash DC when I was 12 years old in 1940 on the > B&O. > As we pulled into Union Station I was amazed when I saw Green and Purple > Steam locomotives, as they were all black in my world. ACL had to be running > over > the RF & P to get those purple locomotives into Wash. I don't recall seeing > any Deisels. > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a > cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . > ------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: PRR in Wash area Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 17:14:57 EST Content-Length: 1307 > RE the PRR cantenary crossing the Potomac, it most certainly did and > freight trains ran through to the RF&P yard at Alexandria. HOWEVER, I am > fairly certain that PASSENGER trains had their power changed at > Washington's Union Station. Sure, there would have been smoke in the > tunnel but not much since they were not that long. I have certainly seen > many photos of the Ivy City engine terminal with RF&P, SAL, and ACL power - > both diesel and, I think, steam - which would confirm this. Also if I > remember rightly (I used to live near Washingtion) the PRR freight line to > Pot Yard cut off from the passenger route to Union Station somewhere below > New Carrollton. George, please see the ASCII map of the Washington area on my PRR questions page, http://www.neuro.ccf.org/~bejm/Rail/Prr/Questions/new.html -- Mark D. Bej bejm@eeg.ccf.org ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: Re: Toledo Branch questions (fwd) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 19:10:25 EST Content-Length: 2234 > << There's a sizable passenger station in Bucyrus (COLSAN). Also there's > a quite sizable station in Crestline, which the beeline Toledo main would > have bypassed >> > But according to my pre-1956 passenger Timetables, as my earlier post states, > show only Tiffin and Mansfield. Thus I must assume that the Detroit-bound > varnish took the "beeline" west from Toledo Jct. for at least as long as thee > my vernable copy of the Aug. 14, 1955 Form 1 was in effect. Tom, a passenger timetable may be insufficient to answer the question. Crestline may have been reached by the train, the crew changed, but there _could_ (in theory) have been no station stop there. (Jerry getting back to your question from a couple of weeks ago on the utility of employee timetables,) this is where the ETT is really needed. ETTs showed station stops with a symbol (I think PRR used "S") next to the time; other times shown are _passing_ times. Toledo Jct. and Crestline are likely to have been shown on the ETT. I don't have one here at work. :-( Anyone have one at home to find out fer sher? Also, anyone have that _Keystone_ with the Toledo Br. article in it (Vol 10, is it?) to find out when the Toledo Jct.--Carrothers section was removed? BTW, I 'fanned this area with Jon Roma this past spring. The RoW is _very_ hard to find anymore, most of it grown up with large trees. IN contrast, the RoW west from Carrothers, abandoned under Conrail in the late 80s, is quite easy to follow (and even drive). Conrail keeps a smidgeon coming out of Toledo to an industry or 2. Still visible from the Ohio Turnpike, just east of Exit 5, are 2 signals whose heads have been turned to the side for going on 10 years -- actually, maybe more like 15. -- Mark D. Bej bejm@eeg.ccf.org ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: Washington-area debate Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 19:19:44 EST Content-Length: 2605 > > Also if I remember rightly (I used to live near Washingtion) the PRR > > freight line to Pot Yard cut off from the passenger route to Union > > Station somewhere below New Carrollton. > _____________________ > Right. The old Pennsy alignment still exists today. The > freight line runs along the Anacostia River, around Capital Hill, and > the passenger tracks meet up with it again on the elevated tracks around > 1st Street and Virginia Avenue, a block or so from the Botanical Garden. I'm going to disagree with you in part. Capitol Hill easily ends before reaching the Anacostia (from the west, that is). The freight line is well east of that. In fact, the freight line never leaves the coastal plain, whereas Capitol Hill is the very beginning of the piedmont of the Alleghenies. (I know, details, details.) In DC proper, the freight line spends all or nearly all of its time travelling compass westbound, having done most of its compass southbound travel outside of city limits. It cuts off the NEC at LANDOVER tower in the town of the same name, and quite close to a stop of the Orange Line. (Plus something - Blue? Line.) You can tell where the junction is very easily, since the high tension lines did not follow the passenger main into Union, but rather followed the freight main to the last substation, which was somewhere along that freight line, don't remember where exactly anymore, but across (on the west side of) the Anacostia River Movable Bridge as I recall. > The passenger tracks that come south out of Union Station are below > ground and emerge from the 1st street Tunnel just prior to rejoining the > freight main. Exactly, at VIRGINIA tower. Freight tracks go thru Virginia St. Tunnel in southeast DC. The tracks that bypass the Capitol are the 2-track passenger line to the south. They actually curve to the east, then back west, ??? to avoid the Capitol's foundation, or other foundations??? VIRGINIA still stood last time I was there (1 year ago), easily seen from the VRE station at L'Enfant Plaza, just south of the Smithsonian's Air and Space Museum. -- Mark D. Bej bejm@eeg.ccf.org ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:58:10 -0600 (CST) From: rboydrrs@inlink.com (Robert A. Boyd) Subject: PRR power in Wash DC Content-Length: 1530 >>Check me on this, but if I recall correctly, didn't the PRR electrification >>extend across to Potomac Yard in Alexandria, where the formal transfer took >>place to RF&P? >> >>Bob Boyd >- ------- > >Bob, >I don't know that that is true, but it ,makes sense since it would keep the >deisels (and steam) out of the tunnels under the Capitol. > > >regards >Andy Miller ====== The thing I find curious is that, if the tunnel clearances at DC were too tight for domes and highliners, how did they get electrics thru there? My guess is they were using the L5s on third rail? Or were the DD-1s assigned there (although I understand the DD-1s were at NYC). If anyone can supply this detail, I am starting to rough in the page on electric power, and it would be useful. Thank you! Bob Boyd Those Classic Trains "Beginning A Century-Long Tradition Of Fine Modelmaking" ____________________________________________ "The Limited" On Line: http://www.thoseclassictrains.com "The Glorious Age Of Railroad Passenger Service" ____ooo___ooo__oo_0000_o_o__________________ ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:58:24 -0600 (CST) From: rboydrrs@inlink.com (Robert A. Boyd) Subject: Re: Re Trains to Florida Content-Length: 1394 TVPedro@aol.com writes: >I took my first train ride to Wash DC when I was 12 years old in 1940 on the >B&O. >As we pulled into Union Station I was amazed when I saw Green and Purple >Steam locomotives, as they were all black in my world. ACL had to be running >over >the RF & P to get those purple locomotives into Wash. I don't recall seeing >any Deisels. > ===== I suspect, as a practical matter, that all the Florida participants motive power wound up going back and forth as need dictated, even if it ment crossing territorial boundrys on occasion. Its a shame the RF&P never electrified: we might have seen GG-1 in Broad Street Station, Richmond! Bob Boyd Those Classic Trains "Beginning A Century-Long Tradition Of Fine Modelmaking" ____________________________________________ "The Limited" On Line: http://www.thoseclassictrains.com "The Glorious Age Of Railroad Passenger Service" ____ooo___ooo__oo_0000_o_o__________________ ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 20:21:53 -0600 From: Bob Webber Subject: Re: PRR power in Wash DC Content-Length: 1515 Just an FYI: If you can find a book titled "Passenger Terminals and Trains (John A. Droege), a Kalmbach book ($7.50 in 1969), you will see: Track layouts for Penn Station New York, Broad St. Station, Pittsburgh , St. Louis Union Station, Sunnnyside yard, Washington DC, and some other, lesser known stations (Grand Central, North Station,etc. hehehe). Under the PRR: Cafe coach, dining car service, efficiency tests, ferry lines in New York, Jersey City station, lunch counter car, sanitary requirements for dining cars, snow melting car, Washington DC station. There's a lot more information pertaining to the PRR (and other roads as well). Just the throats shots are worth the price of admission. The prose can be tiring, but the photos are good - and the track layout for Pennsylvania station is a foldout that covers 5 pages - and is an interlocking diagram. Also a great diagram of St Louis station is a foldout. Lots of detail on interlocking plants. Check it out - it should be fairly easy to find... Bob Webber http://www.concentric.net/~Rswebber/ ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:47:52 -0500 Subject: Request Info-Pine Barrens temporary or narrow rail gauge lines From: carl-vic-vogel@juno.com (Carl K Vogel) Content-Length: 1048 Hello everyone: I could use some historical assistance. Does anyone know of temporary, light rail or narrow gauge rail lines that connected with PRR, PRR Shore lines, or other combinations of Reading, PRR, etc? I understand some sand quarrys or logging outfits used light railed vehicles to move materials. Does anyone have any info to back this up? Was there any of the above rail lines that actually connected with PRR, Seashore lines, Reading, etc. in the New Jersey Pine Barrens. It might be an idea worth modelling. Thanks, Carl K.Vogel Recently Reinstated Chief Engineer Taunton & Tuckerton Railway ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Carl Izzo" Subject: Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 12/02/97 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:33:51 -0500 Content-Length: 46121 I finally found my two books about the demise of the PRR. Most of my books have been in boxes since I moved 10 years ago, but these have been purchased since then. Michael Bezilla is right. One of the books is "No way to run a railroad". There is another one. Both books are out of print. However, I bought mine at a "Cancellation" book store. The first book is: The Wreck of the Penn Central; written by Joseph R. Daughen & Peter Binzen; published by Little, Brown and Company; copywrite in 1971. The second book is: No Way to Run a Railroad; written by Stephen Salsbury; published by McGraw-Hill Book Company; copywrite in 1982. Carl P. Izzo ---------- > From: PRR-Talk > To: PRR-Talk > Subject: PRR-Talk Digest - 12/02/97 > Date: Tuesday, December 02, 1997 12:10 AM > > PRR-Talk Digest - Tuesday, December 2, 1997 > > Selling Stuff on this List > by Jerry Britton > Modified P-70s (was K-5) > by Andrew S. Miller > Re: Have the N scalers among us heard? > by Andrew S. Miller > PRR box cars > by Andrew S. Miller > Re: N6a cabin cars > by Andrew S. Miller > Re: PRR box cars > by Jerry Britton > RE: PRR/PC villains > by Doug Drew > Novatach Erie-Builts > by Derrick J Brashear > RE: more on the Florida trains > by Harmantas, Andrew G. > Last GG1 run? > by Samuel J Fitch > Boxes > by Jerry Britton > RE: more on the Florida trains > by Doug Drew > Re: Boxes > by Rob Schoenberg > RE: more on the Florida trains > by Harmantas, Andrew G. > Re: Boxes for Completed Kits > by Jerry Britton > Re: PRR box cars > by > Re: more on the Florida trains > by Stephen Bartlett > Re: PRR box cars > by Andrew S. Miller > It's amazing what you run into - when you're not really looking > by > Re: PRR box cars > by Brian Brooks > Re: Last GG1 run? > by Chris Brandt > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Selling Stuff on this List > From: "Jerry Britton" > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 97 08:31:54 -0400 > > Okay, a few people have asked about selling stuff on this list. To date, > we have not had any problems. Let's do this, subject to change at my > discretion at any time: > > Selling "Pennsylvania Railroad" models and railroadiana on the list IS > fair game. However, non-PRR and "generic rr stuff IS NOT. > > The subject line of the post should begin with "SALE". This allows those > that don't want such mail to quickly delete it or even to build a filter > to auto-delete these messages. > > Posts regarding any particular item should be made only once. If it > doesn't sell, don't repost it...try selling it on eBay. > > Communications between seller and potential buyers should take place off > the list. > > If you have multiple items to sell, put them all in one message. DO NOT > send one message per item. This would be abusive to the listserv (and > could bruise it!). > > Let's see how this works out. I know that not everyone will be agreeable, > but I think the majority will have no problem with it. I will monitor its > use. Thanks. > > --------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator > Progressive Information Technologies > britton@pit-magnus.com > http://www.pit-magnus.com > 1 JPEG = 1K words > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Modified P-70s (was K-5) > From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 97 08:44:23 -0500 > > Kit bashing is easier if you start with the ECW kit for the same car. I have > built single vesibuled, arch roofed, P70fr's and a PC70a cafe coach from > these. > > regards > Andy Miller > > >Hello all.. > > Harry...i have also talked to Ivan Frantz of the N.C. chapter about this... > > he thought it a good idea too....just gotta get the parts....LOL > > Also i am sending a letter to Bowser about it...that plus some ideas > > for new engines they could make from parts they have now... > > also maybe they could come out with parts to change bachmanns cars... > > I.E. roofs,doors,window inserts,etc...like the ones you can get to > > change ahm-rivarossi-ihc cars.would love to have the arch roof on some > > of my bachmann P-70 cars. > > > > H.Mummert > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: Have the N scalers among us heard? > From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 97 08:52:34 -0500 > > >Andrew S. Miller wrote: > > > >> Dennis, > >> I was thinking of you when I read the other day that Red Caboose is > >> entering > >> the N scale market. Their first offering is to be their X29 ! :-)) > >> This news > >> was from Model Railroad News. > >> > >> regards > >> Andy Miller > > > >Hello Andy, > >I am also an N'thusiast. I haven't heard about these new cars. What > >era are they? What are the dimensions and features? > > > >Thanks > >Roger Elliott > >relliott.telis@mail.telis.org > > > - ---- > Roger, > > The x29 was an early 20th century PRR box car. It was 40 ft long and 8 ft 6 > high inside. It will therefore be lower than the classic WWII era box car. > This size was the standard for all box cars up to the 30s. The PRR built > almost 30,000 of them! They appeared almost everywhere as a result. I > believe it was the largest single class of box cars ever built. The ARA > standard box car was very similar (different tuck spacing and a few other > details). Those were built by many other eastern RRs, notably the B&O, RDG, > CRRNJ, LNE. The cars lasted until the early 60s in some cases. > > regards > Andy Miller > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: PRR box cars > From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 97 09:04:22 -0500 > > Copied from the freight car list: > - ------ > >Under Walthers new product announcements listing on their web page, > >for December, they show "unknown mfr" 193, with dozens of freight > >cars listed. The vendor listing on another page shows 193 as being > >C&BT Shops, but a search on 193 yields zilch. > > > >I always thought you couldn't get C&BT stuff from Walthers. Has it > >(or is it going to) change soon? Most of the listed kits have been > >out for a while. > > > >Happy Turkey day. Now don't you guys fight while I'm gone. :^) > > > > > >Timothy O'Connor > >Chelmsford, Massachusetts > >http://www.avici.com/ > - ------- > Also under "New Product Announcements" they list their PRR rebuilds, the > X29b's and X29d's :-))). They are listed as "special order". I intend to > have my dealer special order it ASAP! > > I already built one of their X43c's and was impressed with the accuracy. They > have abandonded many of their old, terrible castings, and replaced them with > Tichy stuff. > > It appears as if among C&BT (X29 rebuids and X43's), Red Caboose(X29's) and > Bowser (X31's) almost all of the 40-50's era PRR boxcar need may be met with > accurate kits. Now for an X37, hmmm. > > regards > Andy Miller > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: N6a cabin cars > From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 97 09:25:41 -0500 > > >> Kris, > >> The trucks you descibe are PRR class 2D-F12. They are available from > Bowser > >> > >> who made them for the X31 and X32 kits. The idea was to have springs with > >> different spring constants so as to minimize natural oscillations and > >> produce a smoother ride. > >> > >> I believe that the N6a was the lines West version of the same N6b designed > >> for the east. Clearances in the east required the sloped sides of the > coupola. > >> > >> The sides of the N6a coupola were vertical. Otherwise I believe the cars > >> were the same. > >> > >> regards > >> Andy Miller > > > > > >For a point of information, the trucks under the cabincar are not 2d-f12 > >trucks. > >In Pennsy nomenclature, the 2 describes 2 axles. the d describes the > >journal size > >which in this case is a 5 1/2 x 10 if memory serves me. the f12 > >describes the > >truck which is the 12th in the series of freight trucks. Tender trucks > >have a t, > >passenger have a P. The D size journal is for a 50 ton car which is > >what the x31 > >and x32 are. The cabin cars didnot use a truck this large, as the > >cabincars > >don't weigh near what the 50 ton cars do loaded. The cabincars would > >take a 2a > >series truck. Having just moved, I can't place my fingers on my list to > >find > >which one. > > > >Doug Edwards > > > - ------- > Doug, > > You are quite correct.. The cabin car truck would certainly be a > 2A-Fsomething. > > However if the trucks are as Kris described, then the 2D-F12s which Bowser > makes will look correct in HO. > > > regards, > > Andy Miller > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: PRR box cars > From: "Jerry Britton" > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 97 09:38:42 -0400 > > On 12/1/97 10:04 AM, Andrew S. Miller (asmiller@mail11.mitre.org) wrote: > > >Copied from the freight car list: > >- ------ > >>Under Walthers new product announcements listing on their web page, > >>for December, they show "unknown mfr" 193, with dozens of freight > >>cars listed. The vendor listing on another page shows 193 as being > >>C&BT Shops, but a search on 193 yields zilch. > >> > >>I always thought you couldn't get C&BT stuff from Walthers. Has it > >>(or is it going to) change soon? Most of the listed kits have been > >>out for a while. > > > >Also under "New Product Announcements" they list their PRR rebuilds, the > >X29b's and X29d's :-))). They are listed as "special order". I intend to > >have my dealer special order it ASAP! > > > >It appears as if among C&BT (X29 rebuids and X43's), Red Caboose(X29's) and > >Bowser (X31's) almost all of the 40-50's era PRR boxcar need may be met with > >accurate kits. Now for an X37, hmmm. > > I can supply C&BT Shops products through "Merchandise Service" > (http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/vendors.html), as well as Red Caboose. > > --------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator > Progressive Information Technologies > britton@pit-magnus.com > http://www.pit-magnus.com > 1 JPEG = 1K words > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: RE: PRR/PC villains > From: Doug Drew > Date: 01 Dec 97 10:50:25 -0500 > > --====49544851524853494852===1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" > > I agree with your assessment of Symes. > Unfortunately, I think he was typical of a lot of railroad management of > that day -- up through the ranks, and thinking that their lines were still > operating in the world of the thirties and forties, rather than the "new > age" of the superhighway and commercial jet airliners. > "No Way..." takes your side about Bevan -- as a clever financial man who > modernized much of PRR's accounting practices and kept its head above > water with diversification long enough to obtain the approval for the merger > with its hated rival. Unfortunately, part of his strategy seemed to be to > drain needed cash from the railroad in order to put it into what seemed to > be more profitable investments. > It could be argued that in the merger game, Pennsy held all the trump > cards, yet misplayed every hand. This can be laid at the feet of Symes, and > also at a regulatory environment that still viewed PRR as "the dominant > railroad in the east", rather than the ailing giant that it was. One wonders, > though, even if they were allowed to merge with N&W and Wabash, would > PRR's fundamental problems have been rectified, or just merely delayed, due > to more infusions of cash? > > Mark D Bej wrote: > > > >'ve been thinking about the discussion here about various so-called > villains. > > > >I read _The Wreck_ twice, once quite a while ago, once recently when I > >acquired a copy of the book. I saw _No Way_ once, briefly -- it looked > >terribly dry. > > > >I did not come away with the impression that Bevan was being villainized > >in and of himself. Sure, he was one of the cronies who invested as a > club, > >lent to themselves, sat on each others' boards. > > > >My take (some tincture of time has been added) is that the villains were > >the directors and the board. The former for their lack of interpersonal > >cooperation and relative inactivity until things began to go bad; the > >latter for their total inactivity until things got terrible. > > > >To be perfectly honest, I think Bevan should be commended for keeping > the > >sinking ship afloat as long as he did. Remember that PRR was losing > >money, N&W making money in 1964. PRR diversifications were by and large > >making money, PRR proper still losing money in 1968. For how many years > >(decades?) can a company remain afloat while hemorrhaging? > > > >I'm still curious about those loans that were to come due just before > the > >bankruptcy declaration. Were these the bonds issued at the time of WW > II? > >ANyone know for sure? > > > >Finally, I think one villain gets scant mention in the book. That, > IMHO, > >is Symes. Symes probably would have been a lackluster, interregnum > >type of president had economic (_railroad_ economic, that is) conditions > >been better. As it is, he presided over the beginning of the end of the > >PRR, which started losing money in 1946 or 7, as I recall. It was he > and > >his staff who failed to grasp the scope of the post-war problem, the > totally > >changed marketplace. It was he who had Penn Station destroyed (rather > than, > >e.g., donating it to the city). It was he who wanted to dump a > profitable > >railroad (N&W) for a marginally profitable one (NYC), just to accomplish > >a vision. It was he who hired Saunders and installed him to complete > this > >vision. > > > >Symes, IMHO, is like the President who raises taxes and stalls the > economy, > >then ends his 2nd term. Saunders et al are hardly blameless but are in > the > >unenviable position of being the 1st-term President during whose term > occurs > >a recession started by the policies of the previous President. > > > >-- > >Mark D. Bej, M.D. > >bejm@eeg.ccf.org > > > >Clinical Associate, Section of Epilepsy & Sleep Disorders > >Epilepsy Research Fellow, Section of Neurological Computing > >Department of Neurology Phone (216) 445-2565 > >Cleveland Clinic Foundation S-51 Operator (216) 444-2200 bpr 24095 > >9500 Euclid Ave. Fax (216) 445-6617 (public) > >Cleveland, Ohio 44195 U.S.A. Voice mail (216) 444-0119 > (nonclinical only) > > > >------------------------------------------------------------- > >Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a > > >cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . > >------------------------------------------------------------- > >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > --====49544851524853494852===1 > Subject: Novatach Erie-Builts > From: Derrick J Brashear > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:38:41 -0500 (EST) > Subject: RE: more on the Florida trains > From: "Harmantas, Andrew G." > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:51:39 -0500 > Subject: Last GG1 run? > From: sjfitch@juno.com (Samuel J Fitch) > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:16:11 -0500 > Subject: Boxes > From: "Jerry Britton" > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 97 13:27:50 -0400 > Subject: RE: more on the Florida trains > From: Doug Drew > Date: 01 Dec 97 13:48:42 -0500 > Subject: Re: Boxes > From: Rob Schoenberg > Date: Mon, 01 Dec 97 13:54:23 -0500 > Subject: RE: more on the Florida trains > From: "Harmantas, Andrew G." > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:00:36 -0500 > Subject: Re: Boxes for Completed Kits > From: "Jerry Britton" > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 97 14:08:48 -0400 > Subject: Re: PRR box cars > From: SUVCWORR@aol.com > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:37:01 -0500 (EST) > Subject: Re: more on the Florida trains > From: Stephen Bartlett > Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 15:08:01 -0500 > Subject: Re: PRR box cars > From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 97 15:48:41 -0500 > Subject: It's amazing what you run into - when you're not really looking > From: VVA249@aol.com > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:55:34 -0500 (EST) > Subject: Re: PRR box cars > From: Brian Brooks > Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 17:19:53 -0500 > Subject: Re: Last GG1 run? > From: Chris Brandt > Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 18:57:26 -0500 From: BowerPRR Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:57:37 EST Subject: Re: Re: New "Keystone" Is Out Content-Length: 1750 Regarding Mr. Vondruska's comments about the new winter issue of the PRRT&HS "Keystone" magazine. I hope that he and others on this forum truly learn to appreciate the efforts and production of this publication. The staff of this historic society along with those of the other regional PRRT&HS chapters are unpaid volunteers. They bring their professional and intellectual talents to bear to bring all of us who are members GREAT and accurate historic documents that are first rate reference materials. I don't think it is in anyone's best interest to snipe or throw stones about their efforts. I understand the society has rebuffed several individuals who offered their digital expertise. Perhaps becoming a member, getting involved at meetings, having a say, casting a vote for officers may prove to be the most direct route to making changes. If that fails, then this forum could elevate itself to become the caliber of publication that would rival the "Keystone". That would require responsible unpaid volunteers! The Philadelphia Chapter PRRT&HS has its next meeting 12/6/97 at the Drexel Hill United Methodist Church in Philadelphia. Starts at 11:30 with a modelers forum: PRR Diesels model contest, followed by the regular meeting and presentations at 1 p.m. Get involved; plan to attend. Brad Bower ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 23:25:20 -0500 From: "Dave 'Fresh' Freshwater" Subject: Re: PRR New Products Content-Length: 2151 Jerry Britton wrote: > > Below are PRR (and other items of interest) excerpts from "The Railroad Telegraph" (http://www.walston1.com/trains/rrtel.htm): > > > PROTO 2000 N: > > Proto-2000 has announced their first release of N Scale SW-9/1200 > switchers. Shipment is due in November. The following roads will be part > of the first release: > * Pennsylvania (#8521 & 8529) Brunswick Green > The price is projected to be $65 per unit > Apparently, these units are delayed; the rumor is the container is hung up in the traffic jam on the west coast. M.B. Klein's in Baltimore (which has a close relationship with Lifelike) was still projecting mid-December on Black Friday. > SNIP< > RED CABOOSE - HO > > The PRR X-29 40¹ boxcar is now stock. The cost is $14.95 per car. The > first version is a standard PRR Ball Keystone version with twelve > different numbers. Red Caboose is sold out of the first run. They will > be producing an additional twelve numbers shortly. We still have a good > supply in stock but we no longer have all twelve numbers available. > > The next variation of the X-29 Boxcar is the PRR Shadow Keystone > version. This is now available in twelve different road numbers. This > model is now in stock. Two different variations are available in the > twelve packs. Four cars have "Calendar" style numbers and eight cars > have the "Normal" style numbers. The price is $14.95. > In a couple of publications recently, Red Cabbose announced that they were going to also do the X-29s in N-Scale. This has caused lots of drooling among us SPFs in the smaller scale. Expected shipping was early 1998. Dave Freshwater North Potomac, MD ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: PRR power in Wash DC Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:28:44 -0500 (EST) From: "Ken Reinert" Content-Length: 1516 Robert A. Boyd wrote: > The thing I find curious is that, if the tunnel clearances at DC were too > tight for domes and highliners, how did they get electrics thru there? My > guess is they were using the L5s on third rail? Or were the DD-1s > assigned there (although I understand the DD-1s were at NYC). They didn't. Passenger trains operating south of Washington changed power from motors to diesels (and vice versa) there. Except for a short part at the north end of the tunnel, they were never equipped to handle any type of electric power. The short stretch of catenary was to allow the motors to cut off of a southbound train so the diesels could couple on without getting a yard crew involved in juggling the train around. Freight trains operating over the "Main Line - Landover to RO" (the *real* main line, as the line into Washington Terminal was called at one time the Magruder Branch, I believe) ran with motors into Potomac Yard. A good portion of the north end of the yard was electrified -- but no wires were to be found on the south end. Ken ------------------------------------------------------------- Now taking orders for Volume II of "Excerpts from Keystone Crossings", a cross-platform CD-ROM. See http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 00:05:27 -0500 From: "Dave 'Fresh' Freshwater" Subject: Re: PRR power in Wash DC Content-Length: 1766 Robert A. Boyd wrote: > > >>Check me on this, but if I recall correctly, didn't the PRR electrification > >>extend across to Potomac Yard in Alexandria, where the formal transfer took > >>place to RF&P? > >> > >>Bob Boyd > >- ------- > > > >Bob, > >I don't know that that is true, but it ,makes sense since it would keep the > >deisels (and steam) out of the tunnels under the Capitol. > > > > > >regards > >Andy Miller > > ====== > > The thing I find curious is that, if the tunnel clearances at DC were too > tight for domes and highliners, how did they get electrics thru there? My > guess is they were using the L5s on third rail? Or were the DD-1s > assigned there (although I understand the DD-1s were at NYC). > > If anyone can supply this detail, I am starting to rough in the page on > electric power, and it would be useful. > > Thank you! > > Bob Boyd Bob, I know they ran GG-1s into Union Station here in DC. Just before Eisenhower's Inagruation, the brakes failed on one that crashed into t