Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 08:58:36 -0500 (CDT) From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr." Subject: PRR: I-1 sounds Content-Length: 1001 The September issue of Model Railroader has a product review of the DCC decoder with steam sound produced by SoundTraxx. When I originally saw SoundTraxx's ad some months ago there were only about 5 types of engine sounds available. The list is now up to 17, but the only PRR sound available is the K-4. I'm wondering if there are enough of us with I-1 engines that we could lobby for SoundTraxx to make an I-1 recording. I believe they like to record live engines, but the I-1 sounds on the PRR CD I purchased are pretty clear and might be used for recording. Alternatively, does anyone know of another company with I-1 sounds? Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 harperd@tamug.tamu.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 19:07:05 +0200 From: Arne Wangen Subject: Re: SERVER SPEED Content-Length: 687 Hi there I have a small comment to the SERVER SPEED posting. I have another problem with the website, timeout. The last couple of weeks, I have been trying to get the floor-plan gifs for the passenger cars. My best result is around 70% of the picture, before getting a reset by peer-message. This is so frustrating that I will soon forget the website as a whole. This is not meant as a flame, just frustration :-( Arne Wangen Bergen Norway ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: SERVER SPEED Date: Mon, 1 Sep 97 13:48:41 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1308 >I have a small comment to the SERVER SPEED posting. > >I have another problem with the website, timeout. The last couple of >weeks, I have been trying to get the floor-plan gifs for the passenger cars. > >My best result is around 70% of the picture, before getting a reset by >peer-message. I routinely access these pages from a remote site. That site is in York, Pa., which connects to the Internet via Baltimore. My host connects via Harrisburg to Philadelphia to Baltimore. Many hops. Yet I haven't run into this problem with the graphics in question. Yes, it is a problem on significantly larger files, and the bandwidth expansion (when it happens) will resolve a lot of that. Anyone else having problems with smaller (<100K) files from my site? Please respond to "hostmaster@dsop.com" (that's me also) and take this off the list. Thanks. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Michael DiMaio" Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 13:22:18 -0500 Subject: Sound Traxx Content-Length: 406 Does any one have an address for Soundraxx. Email, snailmail or phone would be apprecaited! Michael DiMaio, Ph.D Department of Philosophy Salve Regina University Newport, RI 02840 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 14:48:27 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: Sound Traxx Content-Length: 386 Michael, Soundtraxx, per their ad in MR mag for Sep 97 is at: 555-H Burbank St Broomfield, CO 80020 Tel 303-465-4435, Fax 303-465-4191 Stephen Bartlett ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 14:33:02 -0500 (CDT) From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr." Subject: Re: Sound Traxx Content-Length: 646 In message <199709011723.NAA08321@pobox.ids.net> "Michael DiMaio" writes: > Does any one have an address for Soundraxx. Email, snailmail or phone > would be apprecaited! SoundTraxx is manufactured by: ThrottleUP! P.O. Box 33924 Denver, CO 80233-0924 303/465-4435 Notch8@aol.com Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 harperd@tamug.tamu.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 17:51:23 -0400 (EDT) From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: PRR: I-1 sounds Content-Length: 666 In a message dated 97-09-01 11:57:37 EDT, harperd@arctic.tamug.tamu.edu (Donald E. Harper, Jr.) writes: << I believe they like to record live engines, but the I-1 sounds on the PRR CD I purchased are pretty clear and might be used for recording. >> WARNING These recording are copyrighted by the PRRT&HS. Any use without permission is not legal. This would certainly apply to a for profit venture by Soundtraxx. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harry W. Fitch IV" Subject: Sountraxx from Throttleup, address Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 18:01:26 -0400 Content-Length: 417 For those folks who may want to find a page on Sountraxx from Throttleup, here is an address. http://www.tttrains.com/throttleup/#index Harry Fitch hfitch@maranatha.net Acts 4:12 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 17:14:56 -0500 (CDT) From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr." Subject: Re: PRR: I-1 sounds Content-Length: 1230 In message <970901175007_-932163837@emout14.mail.aol.com> writes: > In a message dated 97-09-01 11:57:37 EDT, harperd@arctic.tamug.tamu.edu > (Donald E. Harper, Jr.) writes: > > << I believe they like to record live > engines, but the I-1 sounds on the PRR CD I purchased are pretty clear and > might > be used for recording. >> > > WARNING > > These recording are copyrighted by the PRRT&HS. Any use without permission > is not legal. This would certainly apply to a for profit venture by > Soundtraxx. > > Rich Orr Those are details to be worked out between the PRRT&HS and the manufacturer. If PRRT&HS and SoundTraxx divided the profits, all three groups (PRRT&HS, SoundTraxx and users of DCC) would benefit. There probably is no other way to make the recording unless the sole surviving I-1 is brought back to operating condition. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 harperd@tamug.tamu.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 00:46:38 -0400 From: Chris Brandt Subject: PRR Millstone Branch Content-Length: 700 Hello Group, Just posted some pictures I took of the Millstone Branch this Sunday. http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/millston.html I hope to add some historical information and pictures to this page in the future. FYI. Chris -- _______ __\ /__ ----------\ P /---------- -----------\ R R /----------- ------------\ /------------ \___/ Chris Brandt cobrandt@eclipse.net http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 02 Sep 1997 09:03:45 -0500 From: Bill.Laird@coastalcorp.com Subject: Re: Jack's Narrows and Spruce -Reply Content-Length: 2476 >>> sbartlet@capecod.net 08/30/97 12:28pm >>> Bill Laird wrote: >I am currently planning construction of a new home and will include a real layout room.....track plan by John Armstrong titled... > >Pennsylvania Railroad Middle and Pittsburg Divisions. I would like to preserve the full 24' by 36' size but do the layout in HO scale, that would result in minimum mainline curves of 48"! > Jerry wrote: > Note that you cannot scale this layout down exactly proportionally. In > S scale, Armstrong has some narrow aisles. If you take it down > proportionately, the aisles will become too narrow. > > Stephen wrote: Bill and Jerry, My interpretation of Bill's aim is that while he plans to build the railroad in HO rather than S, he intends to keep the same room size (24' X 36'). This would shrink the benchwork. Except for points where Bill expands the original areas, the result would be equal or greater aisle space. I'm glad to see you are NOT planning to reduce the curve radii proportionally as well. Keep them large, put in easements equal in length to two passenger cars, and you will have some beautiful trackwork there. Stephen Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Stephen, Your assessment of my intentions is correct. The plan is to keep the full 24' by 36' and use the extra space for more industries, scenery, and wider isles. So far everything is in the early planning stage and actual construction of the new home still 3 to 4 years away (read retirement). I do have the land, an acre overlooking Canyon Lake in the Texas Hill Country, and have built a garage with living quarters above to use as a weekend getaway and to live onsite during the new home construction. Until then I am concentrating on building up a roster of rolling stock and running on our Houston Society of Model Engineers layout (over 600' of mainline double track in our own 40' by 50' building) in Manvel, Texas. The "prr-talk" list is a great resouce, especially for PRR modelers and fans located a long way from the geographic heart of the PRR. I really enjoy all the postings. Bill Laird Houston, Texas email Bill.Laird@coastalcorp.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: Jack's Narrows and Spruce (fwd) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 10:05:00 EDT Content-Length: 4704 > I have been studying a track plan by John Armstrong published in the > Kalmbach book "20 Custom Designed Track Plans" , pages 51-53, titled > Pennsylvania Railroad Middle and Pittsburg Divisions. It is large by most > home layout standards (24' by 36' in S scale) but features several of the > best known landmarks in the PRR assult on the Alleghenies, including > Altoona, Horseshoe Curve, a shortened Rockville Bridge, Jack's > Narrows, and Spruce. I am currently planning construction of a new > home and will include a real layout room. I would like to preserve the full > 24' by 36' size but do the layout in HO scale, that would result in minimum > mainline curves of 48"! Most excellent, dude! > I am familiar with and have visited all the landmarks included in the plan > except Jack's Narrows and Spruce, which are both refered to as > photogenic trackage by mister Armstrong. My questions to the group are > (1) where are Jack's Narrows and Spruce located, and (2) does anyone > have any references to published pictures and descriptions of these two > areas? SPRUCE is very photogenic. JACKS, eh, sort of. The RR is on a ledge cut out of the mountain; in summer (with full leaf), it's quite narrow. At any rate, my 2 cents, given that many others have weighed in. JACKS itself is maybe a mile, maybe a bit less, west of the town of Mount Union. There were 4 mainline tracks, reduced to 3 in the 50s with the removal of #3 track, then to 2 tracks by Conrail. The "5th" track mentioned by someone is probably the spur that turned a bit more to the south (than the mainline went), into the yard in Mount Union. Part of that yard, being the interchange with the East Broad Top, was double-gauged (std. and 3-foot gauge). Most interesting to model, methinks. SPRUCE is a wonderful area. Remember, first off, that the main line was never 4 tracks west of SPRUCE, 'cause the valley was too narrow. It was 3 tracks as far as FORGE tower east of Tyrone, while FORGE was with us (it bit the dust early on, in the 50s, I believe). The tunnels are easily enough seen at SPRUCE, after walking only a mile or so (!). There is a stream, then a farm as one proceeds north from the main line. The RR tunnels cut through the point of Tussey Mountain, which "points" north, and around which it would have been too tough to run the RR (curvature too severe); the stream passes around the mountain. On the west side (which I've been describing), the tunnel portals are rather near one another; the south portal (and tunnel, ipso facto (duh...)) is the newer. SPRUCE tower was at that location, maybe 1/2 mile west of the portals. BUT. The east side is less often seen (by railfans), access being rather more difficult than the west side -- 2 miles or so from the nearest road. The main line is _widely_ split apart here, as there is an angle between the two tunnels. The newer south tunnel remains on the same side of the stream, hugging the mountain, passing a morain, to TUNNEL interlocking and the restart of 4 tracks (or 3, or 2, depending on the era). The north track, after exiting the tunnel portal, crosses the stream on a bridge, passes over a southwardly pointing spit of land, then recrosses to the south side of the stream, where it joins the newer main to proceed to the nearby TUNNEL interlocking. In the 50s, I believe, the tunnels were reduced to 1 centered track each, from 2 tracks, to accommodate higher loads. Thus, it was 4 tracks from Altoona to FORGE, 3 to SPRUCE, only 2 to TUNNEL, then 4 from there on east. >From the 50s to the 90s, one could photograph the _Broadway Limited_ running on what appeared to be _single track"_ because the mains were so far apart. Conrail, in its recent clearance-increasing project, removed the track from the less structurally stable south tunnel, enlarging the tunnel, putting in modern concrete portals, making the tunnel straight- rather than curved-sided, and moving the portals 'into' the mountain a ways. The north tunnel is therefore now double track again. The now unused south portal was shored up a bit with concrete. Personally, I find it interesting that they should make this choice, given that they must also maintain 2 bridges on this routing -- on the other hand, they now need not maintain the south track against the erosion of the outside curve of the Little Juniata ... -- Mark D. Bej bejm@eeg.ccf.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Jack's Narrows and Spruce -Reply Date: Tue, 2 Sep 97 10:11:22 -0400 From: "Jerry Britton" Content-Length: 729 Bill Laird (Bill.Laird@coastalcorp.com) of Houston, Texas, wrote: >The "prr-talk" list is a great resouce, especially for PRR modelers and >fans located a long way from the geographic heart of the PRR. I really >enjoy all the postings. > Shall we refer to your layout as "Lines Way West"? 8-) --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com 1 JPEG = 1K words ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 02 Sep 1997 09:12:21 -0500 From: Bill.Laird@coastalcorp.com Subject: Re: P2k E7 color -Reply Content-Length: 1235 >>> KEMACPRR@aol.com 08/30/97 07:34am wrote:>>> All the E-7's were delivered in Brunswick Green with the 5 stripe scheme in gold leaf. Also the first two orders I believe of the E-8's were also delivered in the same scheme. In 1952 ( not sure when ) The official paint color for Passenger units was changed to Tuscan Red as was the striping scheme to 5 stripe dulux gold . The LL E-7 with the small number boards should be painted in the green/gold leaf 5 stripe scheme. I believe that the larger number boards applied by the PRR were done when the units were repainted. Has anyone ever seen a color picture of an E-7 in tuscan 5-stripe with the original number boards?? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In addition the the Tuscan Red five stripe and Brunswick Green five stripe scheme, PRR E-7's also appeared in a Brunswick Green single stripe scheme (with large number boards). Bill Laird Houston, Texas email Bill.Laird@coastalcorp.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 11:04:55 -0400 From: mxb13@psu.edu (Mike Bezilla) Subject: Re: Jack's Narrows and Spruce (fwd) Content-Length: 2267 Mark Bej wrote: >SPRUCE is a wonderful area. Remember, first off, that the main line was >never 4 tracks west of SPRUCE, 'cause the valley was too narrow. It was >3 tracks as far as FORGE tower east of Tyrone, while FORGE was with us >(it bit the dust early on, in the 50s, I believe). FORGE was closed in 1968, I believe. The process started a year or two earlier when PRR ripped out one of the main tracks from FORGE to GRAY, but the first PC central region ett still shows it, albeit in its death throes. Now then, Mark has touched on something of great interest: why the 3-track main SPRUCE to FORGE? Was it because the valley of the Little Juniata was too narrow for 4 tracks? Maybe, but I'm skeptical. If PRR could find space for 4 main tracks up the West Slope and then down the valley of the Conemaugh, surely it could have added a 4th track along the little J. Anyone have any thoughts? In all the literature of the PRR, I don't recall this 3-track stretch being considered an intolerable bottleneck. Those wonderful stone arch bridges across the little J do not seem to have been designed w/ 4 tracks in mind. Why not? >Conrail, in its recent clearance-increasing project, removed the track >from the less structurally stable south tunnel, enlarging the tunnel, >putting in modern concrete portals, making the tunnel straight- rather >than curved-sided, and moving the portals 'into' the mountain a ways. >The north tunnel is therefore now double track again. The now unused >south portal was shored up a bit with concrete. Personally, I find it >interesting that they should make this choice, given that they must >also maintain 2 bridges on this routing -- on the other hand, they now >need not maintain the south track against the erosion of the outside >curve of the Little Juniata ... Erosion is indeed a critical factor here. The '36 flood virtually wiped out this track--I would imagine Agnes was pretty mean too--and it is a continual problem even in the best of conditions. Mike ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:19:23 -0500 (CDT) From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr." Subject: PRR: Test Content-Length: 444 This is a test to determine if my duplicate address has been deleted from the listserver. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 harperd@tamug.tamu.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 02 Sep 1997 10:35:36 -0500 From: Bill.Laird@coastalcorp.com Subject: Re: Jack's Narrows and Spruce -Reply -Reply Content-Length: 491 >>> britton@pit-magnus.com 09/02/97 09:57am wrote >>> Shall we refer to your layout as "Lines Way West"? 8-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerry, Perhaps "Lines Southwest" would be more appropriate. Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: Re: Jack's Narrows and Spruce (fwd) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 12:01:37 EDT Content-Length: 3196 > >SPRUCE is a wonderful area. Remember, first off, that the main line was > >never 4 tracks west of SPRUCE, 'cause the valley was too narrow. It was > >3 tracks as far as FORGE tower east of Tyrone, while FORGE was with us > >(it bit the dust early on, in the 50s, I believe). > > Now then, Mark has touched on something of great interest: why the 3-track > main SPRUCE to FORGE? Was it because the valley of the Little Juniata was > too narrow for 4 tracks? Maybe, but I'm skeptical. If PRR could find space > for 4 main tracks up the West Slope and then down the valley of the > Conemaugh, surely it could have added a 4th track along the little J. > Anyone have any thoughts? In all the literature of the PRR, I don't recall > this 3-track stretch being considered an intolerable bottleneck. Those > wonderful stone arch bridges across the little J do not seem to have been > designed w/ 4 tracks in mind. Why not? Mike, you are right in pointing out the fact that I was parroting what has no doubt been parroted by others in the past. Surely one _could_ fit 4, or 6, or 8 tracks if one _really_ wanted to. The question is, would it be economical to do so? The Mountain clearly required all the tracks they could muster. That is _so_ much of a bottleneck that it is 4 or 5 tracks all the way. ROI (return on investment) is rather clear in that location. But also, there is little in between besides dirt/mountains. The trouble with the Little Juniata section is probably twofold: 1) the valley is narrow, and 2) the (many) bridges were built for 3 tracks. (1) results in the need, should one want to expand from 3 to 4 tracks, to excavate almost continuously for many (?10 ?12) miles. Clearly, a 12-mile excavation will return more if done to the Altoona--Gallitzin section than it will in the FORGE--SPRUCE section. (2) is probably the more major reason, as, though it's bad enough to have to excavate 12 miles of line [sorry, I'm guessing at the distance, hope I'm not too far off], it's worse yet to have to add in stone arch bridgework for the manifold crossings of said Little Juniata. Yet, (2) brings up yet another question, viz., 3) why were the bridges built to 3-track width in the first place. This one I've never seen the answer to, and I can only speculate that the reason is that the guys who rebuilt the bridges (the PRR went on a bridge rebuilding spree in the late 1800s, rebuilding in stone [concrete was not yet popular, much to our present luck and photographic pleasure]) and widened them made the business decision not to bankrupt themselves on that (relatively short) stretch of line, with its many bridges, but to spend wisely on other bridges as well. To boot, there was a bypass route (the New Portage Secondary, from Altoona to Hollidaysburg to Petersburg, east of Spruce Creek and west of Huntingdon) that could be used in a crunch. -- Mark D. Bej bejm@eeg.ccf.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:08:57 -0400 (EDT) From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: P2k E7 color -Reply Content-Length: 853 In a message dated 97-09-02 10:09:22 EDT, Bill.Laird@coastalcorp.com writes: << In addition the the Tuscan Red five stripe and Brunswick Green five stripe scheme, PRR E-7's also appeared in a Brunswick Green single stripe scheme (with large number boards). >> Dark Green Locomotive Enamel paint with a single stripe were all freight units. The passenger diesel schemes were: DGLE five stripe, Tuscan five stripe, Tuscan single stripe, Tuscan no stripe. There are sub-varities of each of the major schemes. To date I have identified 17 different passenger schemes all based on the four primary schemes. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:54:22 -0500 (EST) From: Subject: Re: P2k E7 color Content-Length: 1014 If you are modeling the late '40s, you'll have to paint your E7 green and put the five stripes on it. That's the way the E7 (EP20) and the PA1 (AP20) were delivered. On Fri, 29 Aug 1997, Jerry Shickler wrote: > Walthers says the P2K E7's will be tuscan. I thought that a while back > it was stated here that nothing was painted tuscan until something like > '51. Is my memory fading, is P2K wrong, or does this represent a > repaint & I'm stymied again in trying to model the late 40's? > -- > Jerry Shickler > Erie, PA > geshick@velocity.net > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 14:06:20 -0500 (CDT) From: bob@amsignal.com Content-Length: 2188 LB Received: by bob.amsignal.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BCB7A5.2A918D00@bob.amsignal.com>; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:36:07 -0500 Message-ID: <01BCB7A5.2A918D00@bob.amsignal.com> From: "Bob Zoeller" To: "PRR-Talk@dsop.com" , "'Donald E. Harper, Jr.'" Subject: RE: I-1 sounds Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:36:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dallee has K4, what they call a 3-chime T1 (I just received:haven't = hooked up) and a banshee. I believe some I1's had the latter, but I = assume that isn't what is being sought. Any opinions on the closest (K4 = or T1) to an M1? Bob Zoeller Fox Point, WI bob@amsig.com ---------- From: Donald E. Harper, Jr. Sent: Monday, September 01, 1997 8:58 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: PRR: I-1 sounds The September issue of Model Railroader has a product review of the DCC = decoder=20 with steam sound produced by SoundTraxx. When I originally saw = SoundTraxx's ad=20 some months ago there were only about 5 types of engine sounds = available. The=20 list is now up to 17, but the only PRR sound available is the K-4. I'm=20 wondering if there are enough of us with I-1 engines that we could lobby = for=20 SoundTraxx to make an I-1 recording. I believe they like to record live = engines, but the I-1 sounds on the PRR CD I purchased are pretty clear = and might be used for recording. Alternatively, does anyone know of another company with I-1 sounds? Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 harperd@tamug.tamu.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to=20 "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: P2k E7's Date: Tue, 2 Sep 97 15:12:32 -0400 From: "Jerry Britton" Content-Length: 609 Speaking of the P2k E7's...has anyone seen them in stock anywhere? If so, how much? Although I wouldn't buy them from Walther's (list price), they are showing an ETA of 9/6. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com 1 JPEG = 1K words ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "RIchard F. Makse" Subject: Genuine Position Light Low Home Signal available Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:13:25 -0400 Content-Length: 1059 Hi, everyone: I'm not in the railroadiana business, but for 35 years, I have had a position light low home signal (USS&S), salvaged in 1962 from OZONE interlocking (closed in 1955) of the LIRR. I never could find the time to rewire it and get it up and running but otherwise, it's a good 1930's era signal. It's too darned heavy to keep shuttling from one corner of my garage to the other and after 35 years, I'll never find the time to restore it. You'll even get the official letter of sale. Any takers out there? Make me an offer--I would trade for quality paper (pre 1950 railroad tickets or employee timetables of PRR, PRSL, LIRR,DL&W,CNJ,LV pre-1950 or Eastern roads hardcover books or original Beebe books). Respond privately. But you have to pick it up in Ridgewood, NJ! Richard F. Makse maxrail@att.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:39:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: various HO scale and prototype diesel issues Content-Length: 1655 Hi all, A couple of questions: 1) I have the opportunity to pick up an Atlas U33C pretty cheaply; It's only useful to me if I can steal the power chassis to drop into an e.g. Athearn U30C (or a U28C if I ever get around to getting one and painting it). Are the trucks right for the Pennsy U30C's? Is the spacing between trucks correct? 2) The Athearn SD45 Pennsy paint scheme, aside from being wrong, has a number on it which was never that I can tell an SD45. 8962, I think. That's ok, it's now "parts". 3) The Athearn SD9 has the same number as one of the P2K ones. 4) I've been considering (searching for) Kato GP35's and seeing if Kato makes a Pennsy SD45 and getting one, but I'm curious about phases. For use rivet counters, what's a good source of phase information, and who bought what, or in my case, what the Pennsy bought? 5) I've seen an article suggesting P70's as a possible starting point for an MP54, but the window grouping is wrong. The article also suggested (I believe, I don't have it here) a Bethlehem Car Works CNJ coach; Does anyone know if something closer to an MP54 than a P70 exists in plastic out there? 6) It looks like I'll be headed to Railfest a day later than most of you; I expect to be on the 1:30 Sunday train if anyone cares. (I expect I'll be working on/at my house on the Saturday as Friday and Saturday are about the only times we get anything done) -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:42:24 -0400 From: mxb13@psu.edu (Mike Bezilla) Subject: Re: Jack's Narrows and Spruce (fwd) Content-Length: 1365 >The Mountain clearly required all the tracks they could muster. That is >_so_ much of a bottleneck that it is 4 or 5 tracks all the way. True, Mark. But on the SPRUCE - FORGE segment: no helper moves. no coal tipples, few customers of any kind to make it a bottleneck. In fact, I know of only two possible customers, historically speaking. The quarries around Union Furnace and --maybe -- the shovel factory east of the cut at U.F. Tho there was the station at the village of Spruce Creek. Kind of unusual to have this on a 3 track main. >why were the bridges built to 3-track width in the first place. A real puzzler. Looks like they didn't anticipate much local traffic. >there was a bypass route (the >New Portage Secondary, from Altoona to Hollidaysburg to Petersburg, >east of Spruce Creek and west of Huntingdon) that could be used in a crunch. This may have been a key in the decision-making circa 1900 or so. But given that the H&P never boomed with by-pass traffic -- unlike say, B&O's bypass of Cumberland -- the PRR must not have considered the 3 tracks west from SPRUCE much of a nuisance. Mike ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: P2k E7's Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 15:56:27 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 743 On 2 Sep, "Jerry Britton" wrote: > Speaking of the P2k E7's...has anyone seen them in stock anywhere? > > If so, how much? > > Although I wouldn't buy them from Walther's (list price), they are > showing an ETA of 9/6. Hah! All you guys are working in the wrong scale! I got *my* PRR E7s last weekend. Beautiful ABBA set, Tuscan five-stripe. I'll be running them this Sunday at the Concord (NH) show. The local price is $37.50 (powered A), $18.75 (dummy B). This is N Scale, of course. Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: various HO scale and prototype diesel issues From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 97 16:23:48 -0400 Content-Length: 983 . . . > >5) I've seen an article suggesting P70's as a possible starting point for an >MP54, but the window grouping is wrong. The article also suggested (I believe, >I don't have it here) a Bethlehem Car Works CNJ coach; Does anyone know if >something closer to an MP54 than a P70 exists in plastic out there? > . . . - ------- The only thing I know of is the Funero & Camerlengo LIRR Ping Pong car. Its an accurate MP54 with a arch roof. It is still listed as in stock at Walthers. Very little else of F&C is! But beware, F&C are the toughest resin kits to build. In part because the instructions are awful! However, the MP54 only has 10 parts that you would be interested in, so you might get by. regards Andy Miller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 16:23:56 -0500 From: tmahon@cfnh.com (Tom Mahon) Subject: K8 Photos Content-Length: 572 Wud appreciate URL for K8 photos used for transporting tomatoes. Someone was kind enough to respond to my recent request regarding drawings by referring to the site. I did download the photos a month or so ago but, doing the guy thing, put them in such a safe place I can't find them nor did I bookmark the site. Thanks in advance. Tom Mahon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 21:30:38 -0400 (EDT) From: PRRMAN@aol.com Subject: Re: Jack's Narrows and Spruce (fwd) Content-Length: 715 In a message dated 97-09-02 13:05:20 EDT, mxb13@psu.edu (Mike Bezilla) writes: >In all the literature of the PRR, I don't recall >this 3-track stretch being considered an intolerable bottleneck. No supporting data, but I would venture to say that this segment had the least traffic of any segment between Rockville and Conpitt Jct. And, based on what else the PRR did, they certainly could (and would) have 4-tracked the segment if this was deemed necessary. Rich Copeland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 22:01:02 -0400 (EDT) From: PRRMAN@aol.com Subject: Re: Jack's Narrows and Spruce (fwd) Content-Length: 715 In a message dated 97-09-02 13:05:20 EDT, mxb13@psu.edu (Mike Bezilla) writes: >In all the literature of the PRR, I don't recall >this 3-track stretch being considered an intolerable bottleneck. No supporting data, but I would venture to say that this segment had the least traffic of any segment between Rockville and Conpitt Jct. And, based on what else the PRR did, they certainly could (and would) have 4-tracked the segment if this was deemed necessary. Rich Copeland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: P2K E7 paint schemes Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 09:24:42 -0500 Content-Length: 1774 Not to beat a dead horse, but I have two comments on subject: 1. At Madison, Lifelike hinted to me that Brunswick green scheme might be a future project (The way things go in the model industry, that might be 1999). I asked because I didn't want a repeat of my E8 experience wherein I took two AHM shells, filled in the mars light, ground off dynamic brakes, added lift rings , antennas, and coupler covers and then painted tuscan(bought Protopower chassis), awaiting only decalling, then P2K brought out their E8. I am now in process of adding antennas to P2K undec E7 to do a pre-1952 brunswick scheme. 2.Sometimes I assume erroneously that everyone has copies of everything. For those who missed it, Issue 38, November-December 1988 of Prototype Modeler magazine had plans and construction tips on Pennsy E-units, specifically the original E7 and a very late E8 version. The prototype data included, attributed to Chuck Blardone and the PRRT&HS, gave a lot of the numbers and dates asked for on PRR-chat. Briefly summarizing: E7 switch to tuscan and 5-stripe Buff lettering August 11, 1952 start. Official date for switch to single wide stripe, large keystone, and 16 inch new lettering typeface - July 20, 1956. First 28 E8 delivered 1950-51 were brunswick green, 5-stripe and lettering in gold leaf. Next batch of 24 mid-1952 the same except two to four in tuscan with 5-stripe and lettering in gold leaf. Final 22 unts in late -1952 in tuscan with Buff 5-stripes and lettering. Repaint of green E8's to tuscan began in August 1952. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:35:06 -0400 (EDT) From: JDPanza@aol.com Subject: Re: various HO scale and prototype diesel issues Content-Length: 649 Regarding U30C's, note that the Pennsy's five (6535-6539) have the same car body as the U28C. The main difference between later U30C's and the Pennsy's is the step in the car body width in the radiator area found on the later U30C's. See Pennsy Power II, page 303 (U28C) and 304 (U30C). See page 63 of the Diesel Spotter's Guide Update or page 173 of The Second Diesel Spotters Guide for a photo of a later model U30C. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:31:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Da72jmk@aol.com Subject: Re: PRR: I-1 sounds Content-Length: 478 In a message dated 97-09-01 11:58:17 EDT, Donald E. Harper, Jr. wrote: << I'm wondering if there are enough of us with I-1 engines that we could lobby for SoundTraxx to make an I-1 recording. >> Count me in on wanting sound for an I-1. John Keel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Passenger Car Classes Date: Thu, 4 Sep 97 06:53:02 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 906 Remember those long discussions we had about passenger car classes? With only one exception, the "a" suffix seemed to denote "pre-war". Over the past few weeks I've been adding many class rosters (http://prr.dsop.com/passops) and tonight I did PS106 (10 roomettes, 6DBR). All are "post war". PS106 - "B type" bedrooms PS106a - "parallel type" bedrooms PS106b - Budd-built stainless steel models with "B type" bedrooms Seems there are more "exceptions"! ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harmantas, Andrew G." Subject: RE: P2K E7 paint schemes Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 08:49:16 -0400 Content-Length: 3052 Bob, I prefer the AHM E8 shell to LL/P2K's. Only problem with the AHM shell is the pilot, which I chop off and build my own PRR style out of styrene anyway, so no problemo. I powered mine with chopped and channelled Athearn FP-45 mechanisms, using A-Line's sideframes and fuel tank skirts. The guys at Rivarossi did a super fine job of tooling for the cab/nose on that shell. Finest in the hobby, in my opinion. I got a close look at LL/P2K's E7 A and saw that they blew it right where the windshields meet the nose, just above the number boards. It's a small glitch, but I sure notice it. Problem is, the old Model Power now Con Cor E7 shell has too blunt a nose, so it isn't a preferable option, but it's out there for demented kitbashers like me. Good Pennsy modeling to you, Andrew Harmantas, SPF, among others. >---------- >From: Bob Zoeller[SMTP:bob@amsignal.com] >Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 1997 10:24 AM >To: 'PRRtalk' >Subject: P2K E7 paint schemes > >Not to beat a dead horse, but I have two comments on subject: > >1. At Madison, Lifelike hinted to me that Brunswick green scheme might be a >future project (The way things go in the model industry, that might be 1999). >I asked because I didn't want a repeat of my E8 experience wherein I took two >AHM shells, filled in the mars light, ground off dynamic brakes, added lift >rings , antennas, and coupler covers and then painted tuscan(bought >Protopower chassis), awaiting only decalling, then P2K brought out their E8. >I am now in process of adding antennas to P2K undec E7 to do a pre-1952 >brunswick scheme. > >2.Sometimes I assume erroneously that everyone has copies of everything. For >those who missed it, Issue 38, November-December 1988 of Prototype Modeler >magazine had plans and construction tips on Pennsy E-units, specifically the >original E7 and a very late E8 version. The prototype data included, >attributed to Chuck Blardone and the PRRT&HS, gave a lot of the numbers and >dates asked for on PRR-chat. Briefly summarizing: >E7 switch to tuscan and 5-stripe Buff lettering August 11, 1952 start. >Official date for switch to single wide stripe, large keystone, and 16 inch >new lettering typeface - July 20, 1956. >First 28 E8 delivered 1950-51 were brunswick green, 5-stripe and lettering in >gold leaf. >Next batch of 24 mid-1952 the same except two to four in tuscan with 5-stripe >and lettering in gold leaf. >Final 22 unts in late -1952 in tuscan with Buff 5-stripes and lettering. >Repaint of green E8's to tuscan began in August 1952. > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 04 Sep 1997 07:56:59 -0500 From: Bill.Laird@coastalcorp.com Subject: P2K E7 paint schemes -Reply Content-Length: 1179 >>> bob@amsignal.com 09/03/97 08:39pm wrote>>> ................. I am now in process of adding antennas to P2K undec E7 to do a pre-1952 brunswick scheme. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wanting to do the same (E7 in DGLE) I have been price shopping the ads in the mags for undecs. Longs Model RR Sply ad in Oct 97 MR indicates that the undec E7 A unit (mfr model # 170-21072) has a Mars light. Ad says unit has "Flat # Board". I can't tell if that means the old style small number board or the newer large 45 degree number board. My question is are either of the LL P2K E7 undec A units (old style small number board or newer large 45 deg number board) available without a Mars light? If so, what is the manufacturers part number? I appreciate any responses. Bill Laird Houston, Texas email Bill.Laird@coastalcorp.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: K8 Photos Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 09:04:26 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 732 On 2 Sep, Tom Mahon wrote: > Wud appreciate URL for K8 photos used for transporting tomatoes. Someone > was kind enough to respond to my recent request regarding drawings by > referring to the site. I did download the photos a month or so ago but, > doing the guy thing, put them in such a safe place I can't find them nor > did I bookmark the site. The tomato transport article is at http://www.rrhistorical.com/prths/tomato.html Strip off "tomato.html" to get the the PRRT&HS pages. Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: RE: P2K E7 paint schemes -Reply Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 09:47:19 -0500 Content-Length: 1900 I was puzzled by the reference to Mars light, too, when I picked up the kit I had special ordered. It turns out that P2K has also included an extra blank door in the undec kit, I was relieved to find out (It took me a while to find it). I have flat number board kit. I can let you know part number tomorrow after I check at home tonight. ---------- From: Bill.Laird@coastalcorp.com Sent: Thursday, September 04, 1997 7:56 AM To: Reply requested Subject: P2K E7 paint schemes -Reply >>> bob@amsignal.com 09/03/97 08:39pm wrote>>> ................ I am now in process of adding antennas to P2K undec E7 to do a pre-1952 brunswick scheme. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wanting to do the same (E7 in DGLE) I have been price shopping the ads in the mags for undecs. Longs Model RR Sply ad in Oct 97 MR indicates that the undec E7 A unit (mfr model # 170-21072) has a Mars light. Ad says unit has "Flat # Board". I can't tell if that means the old style small number board or the newer large 45 degree number board. My question is are either of the LL P2K E7 undec A units (old style small number board or newer large 45 deg number board) available without a Mars light? If so, what is the manufacturers part number? I appreciate any responses. Bill Laird Houston, Texas email Bill.Laird@coastalcorp.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: P2K E7 paint schemes -Reply Date: Thu, 04 Sep 97 12:02:37 -0400 From: Rob Schoenberg Content-Length: 2405 Here are the part numbers for the Proto-2000 E7's 433-21072 PROTO E7A undec flat # bd HO 90.00 - old style small # board - both w & w/o mars light 433-21073 PROTO E7B undec HO 45.00 433-21272 PROTO E7A undec 45deg # HO 90.00 - new style large # board - both w & w/o mars light I just finished painting up a B unit in DGLE and it looks great! I'm working on the PRR's first pair of A units and the B unit that was later purchased to go along with them. (The whole set is as delivered- I like the look before all of those extra safety appliances were added. Plus they're just about the only PRR EMD cab units with freight pilots!) Can't wait until I finish the trainphone antennas on the A's and get them painted to match.... Rob --------------- I was puzzled by the reference to Mars light, too, when I picked up the = kit I had special ordered. It turns out that P2K has also included an = extra blank door in the undec kit, I was relieved to find out (It took = me a while to find it). I have flat number board kit. I can let you = know part number tomorrow after I check at home tonight. ---------- From: Bill.Laird@coastalcorp.com Sent: Thursday, September 04, 1997 7:56 AM To: Reply requested Subject: P2K E7 paint schemes -Reply >>> bob@amsignal.com 09/03/97 08:39pm wrote>>> ................ I am now in process of adding antennas to P2K undec E7 to do a pre-1952 brunswick scheme. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Wanting to do the same (E7 in DGLE) I have been price shopping the ads in the mags for undecs. Longs Model RR Sply ad in Oct 97 MR indicates that the undec E7 A unit (mfr model # 170-21072) has a Mars light. Ad says unit has "Flat # Board". I can't tell if that means the old style = small number board or the newer large 45 degree number board. My question is are either of the LL P2K E7 undec A units (old style = small number board or newer large 45 deg number board) available without a Mars light? If so, what is the manufacturers part number? =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:42:17 -0400 (EDT) From: PRRSD45@aol.com Subject: Pre-merger roster needed Content-Length: 482 I needed to find out where I could find a copy of the Pennsylvania Railroad roster for the day of the Penn Central merger. Any help in where to find this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Jeremy Helms Pennsylvania Railroad into the Future ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harmantas, Andrew G." Subject: E unit pilots Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:59:47 -0400 Content-Length: 2268 And now, a few words about pilot swapping. Life Like thankfully markets their E unit pilots as parts. But here it gets tricky. Both the creased (freight style) and smooth (passenger style) pilots that come with the E8 are cast in engineering plastic and are a bit more difficult to kitbash with. The pilots that come with the E7 are in a more easily worked styrene. More comparisons. The E8 pilots--both of them, are really well designed and are near flawlwess representations of their prototypes. The smooth/passenger pilot is a close representation of PRR's E8 pilots, except the SPF might want to fill in some of the great maw where the coupler goesintah. The E8 creased pilot is the best of its type on the market on nay model, but is of little use to SPFs, as the Pennsy had no use for these, as all Fs and E's (except for a couple of the early E7s had smooht pilots. So, as a service to my fellow SPF's, I will take any spare E8 creased pilots off your hands. Both of the E7 pilots, in my opinion, have overly large holes for the couplers and would require patching around the edges for anything that looks reasonable, but this shouldn't be all that hard, as they are cast in styrene. And now for the "but"--the smooth pilot that comes with the E7, except for the coupler area, is a perfect example of the original pilot on Pennsy E7's, which, as every SPF will recognize, is different than the smooth pilot on Pennsy E8s. It's a small, but important distinction. This may be more than some ever wanted to know, but as COL Sherm Potter once said: "I'm glad we had this little talk". Later, Andrew Harmantas, SPF >---------- > >I just finished painting up a B unit in DGLE and it looks great! I'm working >on the PRR's first pair ofA units and the B unit that was later purchased to >go along with them. (The whole set is as delivered-I like the look before >all of those extra safety appliances were added. Plus they're just about the >only PRR EMD cab units with freight pilots!) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Pre-merger roster needed Date: Thu, 4 Sep 97 13:24:15 -0400 From: "Jerry Britton" Content-Length: 749 >I needed to find out where I could find a copy of the Pennsylvania Railroad >roster for the day of the Penn Central merger. Any help in where to find >this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Motive power? Freight cars? Passenger cars? Everything? Motive roster is at http://prr.dsop.com.motiveops --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com 1 JPEG = 1K words ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:27:30 -0500 (CDT) From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr." Subject: PRR: Vehicle color Content-Length: 584 An article in a recent Keystone dealt with the color and lettering of vehicles purchased by the PRR. Nothing was said about the interior colors. Were the interiors and seats various colors, or were they painted Tuscan also??? Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 harperd@tamug.tamu.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: P2K E7's Date: Fri, 5 Sep 97 07:01:50 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1055 I want to purchase an A-B-A set of the new Proto 2000 E7's in Tuscan Red for passenger service. >Here are the part numbers for the Proto-2000 E7's > 433-21072 PROTO E7A undec flat # bd HO 90.00 - old style small # board - both w & w/o mars light > 433-21073 PROTO E7B undec HO 45.00 > 433-21272 PROTO E7A undec 45deg # HO 90.00 - new style large # board - both w & w/o mars light Why use the undec's? Do you plan to paint DGLE and use for freight service, or is the number board style and size wrong for passenger service as supplied on the RTR PRR tuscan units? ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 09:26:12 -0400 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: Re: P2K E7's Content-Length: 845 Jerry Britton wrote: > > I want to purchase an A-B-A set of the new Proto 2000 E7's in Tuscan Red ... > Why use the undec's? Do you plan to paint DGLE and use for freight > service, or is the number board style and size wrong for passenger > service as supplied on the RTR PRR tuscan units? > > Those wishing to model pre-Aug. '52 need to paint passenger locomotives in DGLE. Someone mentioned the other day about LL hinting at a DGLE run in the future. I'll probably wait for that. I noticed Walthers changed the E7 date from Sept. 1 to Indefinite. -- Jerry Shickler Erie, PA geshick@velocity.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 05 Sep 1997 08:35:11 -0500 From: Bill.Laird@coastalcorp.com Subject: P2K E7's -Reply Content-Length: 1656 LL P2K is offering the PRR E7's only in Tuscan Red with 5 stripes and large number boards. PRR had several other paint schemes for E7's including: Brunswick Green (DGLE) 5 stripe Brunswick Green (DGLE) single stripe Tuscan Red 5 stripe Tuscan Red single stripe Tuscan Red no stripe If you want anything other than Tuscan Red 5 stripe you have to "roll your own", thus the undecs. PRR had both the old style small number board and new style 45 degree large number board E7's. All Tuscan Red E7's were the new style. The DGLE painted E7's came in both varieties of number boards, depending on when they were delivered. Bill Laird Houston, Texas email Bill. Laird@coastalcorp.com ======================================================== >>> jerry@dsop.com 09/05/97 06:25am wrote>>> I want to purchase an A-B-A set of the new Proto 2000 E7's in Tuscan Red for passenger service. >Here are the part numbers for the Proto-2000 E7's > 433-21072 PROTO E7A undec flat # bd HO 90.00 - old style small # board - both w & w/o mars light > 433-21073 PROTO E7B undec HO 45.00 > 433-21272 PROTO E7A undec 45deg # HO 90.00 - new style large # board - both w & w/o mars light Why use the undec's? Do you plan to paint DGLE and use for freight service, or is the number board style and size wrong for passenger service as supplied on the RTR PRR tuscan units? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 09:36:39 -0400 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: Stewart F3's Content-Length: 348 I noticed that K.C. shows the Stewart F3's as being "non-Pennsy". How so? -- Jerry Shickler Erie, PA geshick@velocity.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 10:10:20 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: P2K E7's -Reply Content-Length: 1251 Bill.Laird@coastalcorp.com wrote: > > If you want anything other than Tuscan Red 5 stripe you have to > "roll your own", thus the undecs. PRR had both the old style small > number board and new style 45 degree large number board E7's. > All Tuscan Red E7's were the new style. The DGLE painted E7's > came in both varieties of number boards, depending on when they > were delivered. > > Bill Laird Bill, Jerry, & Everyone, If you're going to the large numberboards, don't forget that the Pennsy's were not the semi-flush boards used by EMD, but were mounted external to the surface of the nose sheet metal. _Pennsy Power II_, page 225, shows this well on EP20 Engine 5881. See also page 331. _I Remember Pennsy_, pages 35 (on a PA), and pages 36 & 37, give a few more views. I won't say there were no EMD-design large number boards on any of the PRR EP20s, but I did not find any in these two references. Overland's O scale PRR EP20 featured the external number board. Steve Bartlett ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harmantas, Andrew G." Subject: Number boards (was:RE: P2K E7's -Reply) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:25:12 -0400 Content-Length: 1365 SPFs: The great folks at Bowser/Cal-Scale make the unique Pennsy diesel number bord/class light combination as a brass casting. An easy fix to make your EP-whatever look closer to the truth. Just remember when you use these castings, smooth out the bump on the nose that represents EMD's original placement of the class lights. Then, as we used to say: "you're good to hook". Andrew Harmantas, waiting for the trains at C&O Milepost FM Zero. Nothing moving today. > > >> If you want anything other than Tuscan Red 5 stripe you have to >> "roll your own", thus the undecs. PRR had both the old style small >> number board and new style 45 degree large number board E7's. >> All Tuscan Red E7's were the new style. The DGLE painted E7's >> came in both varieties of number boards, depending on when they >> were delivered. > > > If you're going to the large numberboards, don't forget that the >Pennsy's were not the semi-flush boards used by EMD, but were mounted >external to the surface of the nose sheet metal. _Pennsy Power II_, >page 225, shows this well on EP20 Engine 5881. See also page 331. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 14:01:08 -0400 (EDT) From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: Stewart F3's Content-Length: 451 In a message dated 97-09-05 09:51:49 EDT, geshick@velocity.net writes: << I noticed that K.C. shows the Stewart F3's as being "non-Pennsy". How so? >> Which phase? Some phases are not appropriate for the PRR. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 14:08:49 -0400 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: Re: Stewart F3's Content-Length: 619 SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 97-09-05 09:51:49 EDT, geshick@velocity.net writes: > > << I noticed that K.C. shows the Stewart F3's as being "non-Pennsy". How > so? > >> > Which phase? Some phases are not appropriate for the PRR. > > Rich Orr I'm looking to model '49 in Erie. What phase would be appropriate? -- Jerry Shickler Erie, PA geshick@velocity.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 14:16:07 -0400 (EDT) From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: new screen name Content-Length: 463 Just getting back on-line after extensive system maintenence. Thought I'd accquire a more meaningful screen name and save TVondruska for business. I'm still along the old Little Miami Railroad, the Panhandle's Springfield branch. Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 05 Sep 1997 13:50:37 -0500 From: Bill.Laird@coastalcorp.com Subject: Re: P2K E7's -Reply -Reply Content-Length: 886 Rich I have never seen a DGLE single stripe E8 either. Color photos of single stripe DGLE E7's are in "Pennsy Diesel Years". I don't remember which volume(s) and don't have them here at the office to check. As I am sure you know, index of photos by manufacturer and model for volumes 1 - 4 may be found at the back of volume 4. Bill >>> SUVCWORR@aol.com 09/05/97 01:24pm wrote>>> >Bill: >Where have you ever seen a DGLE single stripe E7 or E8? Can you >direct me to a color photo reference? I have been researching PRR >passenger diesel paint schemes for a number of years and have >never found a single stripe DGLE E7 or E8. >Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:38:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Hal6963@aol.com Subject: Re: RailFest Excursion Slated for 1:30 Saturday Content-Length: 744 I have ordered my Railfest ticket for 1:30 PM excursion train on saturday. On Friday I am going to stop at Strasburg to ride the SRR, tour the museum, and visit several of the bookstores that others have mentioned on this list. Will stay overnight at the Red Caboose Lodge. Leaving early Saturday morning for Altoona via Enola and US 22. Going to try to get a look at the Rockville Bridge. Are there any other "Must See" locations along this route? Will stop at Huntingdon and photograph the HUNT tower. Harold ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: RailFest Excursion Slated for 1:30 Saturday Date: Fri, 5 Sep 97 20:31:36 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 3247 >On Friday I am going to stop at Strasburg to ride the SRR, tour the museum, >and visit several of the bookstores that others have mentioned on this list. >Will stay overnight at the Red Caboose Lodge. Leaving early Saturday morning >for Altoona via Enola and US 22. Going to try to get a look at the Rockville >Bridge. Are there any other "Must See" locations along this route? >Will stop at Huntingdon and photograph the HUNT tower. At Strasburg, there is a gift shop at the museum. However, across the street -- at the Strasburg Railroad -- there's a gift (junk) shop that has a magnificent bookstore on its second floor. You MUST go there. Someone -- I think it may have been Dan Cupper -- mentioned a store. I forget its name, but as you leave the museum and head west towards Strasburg, it's on the right. Something "Attic" I think. It's just past a decent hobby shop on the left. When you head up Rt 22...You will likely take Rt 283 from Lancaster to Harrisburg, then north on I-83 to south on I-81. After being on I-81 for only three miles or so, signs will direct you west onto 22/322 to "State College". DO NOT EXIT; stay on I-81 south! Continue for a few more miles and cross the Susquehanna River. To your right as you cross the river you will see the Rockville Bridge. Take first exit onto Rt 11/15 north. (This route runs up the west side of the river -- parallel to 22/322.) BTW: If you take the second ramp to 11/15 south, you'll immediately be alongside the Enola Yard. It runs about five miles between the road and the river. Easy turnaround to head back north. Anyway, about a mile above I-81 (on 11/15) there will be breaks in the trees and a shoulder where you can pull over and view the Rockville Bridge. Just above that is Marysville station...still standing. Long ago there was a classification yard here...before Enola. Pics in Gunnarson's book on the Northern Central Railway. Just above Marysville the road climbs and curves to the left as it comes around the end of a mountain. Below the road to the right is BANKS interlocking. Tower is gone. Very heavy action in the area...50+ trains a day. About three more miles to town of Cove. There will be a diner on the left, then Susquenita High School. On the right there is a very wide shoulder and almost always railfans with scanners. Just above this is a broad curve to the right. 11/15 climbs and curves around another mountain end. This was the site of the Grif Teller calendar painting of the Aerotrain. You'll pass Duncannon, go about five more miles, then you can rejoin 22/322 west. The detour is worth it!!! I'll turn the next part of the tour over to Mike Bezilla and others. Not a lot to see between Duncannon and Lewistown, however. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 21:33:34 -0400 From: Jerry Jordak Subject: Re: RailFest Excursion Slated for 1:30 Saturday Content-Length: 644 Just curious..... On a somewhat-related event, is anyone going to the East Broad Top Railfan Weekend the weekend after Altoona? Later, -Jer -- Jerry W. Jordak The boxcars and flatbeds, whistle blowin' steam mailto:jer@smellycat.com That was yesterday http://prozac.cwru.edu/jer/ Now those big trains don't come anymore Acts 16:31 <>< -- Restless Heart, "Big Iron Horses" ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 23:12:22 -0400 From: Zeolla Subject: Re: RailFest Excursion Slated for 1:30 Saturday Content-Length: 858 Jerry wrote: > Someone -- I think it may have been Dan Cupper -- mentioned a store. I > forget its name, but as you leave the museum and head west towards > Strasburg, it's on the right. Something "Attic" I think. It's just past a > decent hobby shop on the left. I don't know about anything on the right heading toward Strasburg, but there is a book store in the same building as the hobby shop, on the second floor ("Attic"?). I'll be out that way tomorrow, so I'll get the names of the stores and report bsck. Thanks for the tip on the bookstore above the Strasburg gift shop. I wasn't aware of it. Bob Zeolla ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 23:13:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: RailFest Excursion Slated for 1:30 Saturday Content-Length: 1572 On Fri, 5 Sep 1997, Jerry wrote: > Anyway, about a mile above I-81 (on 11/15) there will be breaks in the > trees and a shoulder where you can pull over and view the Rockville > Bridge. > > Just above that is Marysville station...still standing. Long ago there > was a classification yard here...before Enola. Pics in Gunnarson's book > on the Northern Central Railway. Minor blurb here: I almost feel strongly enough about mentioning heading down to the river, betweemn the river and the tracks, for some pix. Definitely some good opportunities for shots as trains go by overhead onto the bridge where the underpass is, but parking is a pain. What you do to get there: when you get to Marysville, there will be a sign on 11/15 advising of a PA route headed left (west). I forget the number, but it's a 3 digit number, in the 800's or 900's. Turn left onto it. Then go left again, bear right, and make a left into the "subway". (if memory serves... it should all be fairly obvious anyhow once you get into Marysville.) go under the tracks, and then go right. Keep going and you'll come to the bridge. Of course, I didn't actually stay long, so perhaps someone else can comment on whether it's worthwhile or not. I was impressed, but I am easily impressed. -D (headed down to the tracks in a few right now) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 12:18:19 -0400 From: mxb13@psu.edu (Mike Bezilla) Subject: Re: RailFest Excursion Slated for 1:30 Saturday Content-Length: 1352 > Leaving early Saturday morning >>for Altoona via Enola and US 22. Going to try to get a look at the Rockville >>Bridge. Are there any other "Must See" locations along this route? >I'll turn the next part of the tour over to Mike Bezilla and others. Not >a lot to see between Duncannon and Lewistown, however. > Well, without going into a lot of detail, I would point out a few things in this segment. Port Royal. Just follow the exit sign on Rt 322 and 10 minutes later you're in this neat little town with an old (c. early 1900s) concrete hiway bridge over the main, signal masts nearby, you can see where the station was and where the old n.g Tuscarora Valley RR made a connection with the PRR. A delightful location. Also, further west, Mifflin, again just follow the exit sign. Station still standing here, I believe. And just west of here, via a narrow nacadam road on the south side of the rr, was the Denholm coaling station. Nowadays just a real wide spot in the tracks. And speaking of stations, the PRR station at Newport (east of Port Royal) still stands, tho not a pretty sight. Mike ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 13:20:26 -0400 (EDT) From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: in re: PRR F3s Content-Length: 1294 To the person from Erie inquiring about F3 phases purchased by the PRR. It's my understanding that the PRR bought F3s in two blocks. all with dynamic brakes The first purchase, built in 1946 and 1947, was what Stewart made as a Phase I ("chicken wire" side grillls), single headlight, high fans. These were purchases in ABBA sets as a 6,000 hp freight locomotive. The A units would be matched with B units with the same number but ending in a subscript B. Later, in the late 1950s, the B units would be renumbered. The second block, built in 1948 and 1949, were what Stewart sold as Phase III (Stainless steel Farr grills ala the F7), single headlight, low fans. They look very similiar to the F7 but for the two rectangular, screened DB vents behind the cabs. These were purchased in ABA sets as 4,500 hp locomotives dedicated for pusher services. Numbering was the same as the Phase I. This is why I purchased an ABB set of undec Stewart Phase I single headlight with high fans. Am interested in buying the Second A unit to complete my set. Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 15:10:49 -0400 (EDT) From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: in re: PRR F3s Content-Length: 1814 In a message dated 97-09-06 13:21:37 EDT, LINESWEST@aol.com writes: << To the person from Erie inquiring about F3 phases purchased by the PRR. It's my understanding that the PRR bought F3s in two blocks. all with dynamic brakes The first purchase, built in 1946 and 1947, was what Stewart made as a Phase I ("chicken wire" side grillls), single headlight, high fans. These were purchases in ABBA sets as a 6,000 hp freight locomotive. The A units would be matched with B units with the same number but ending in a subscript B. Later, in the late 1950s, the B units would be renumbered. The second block, built in 1948 and 1949, were what Stewart sold as Phase III (Stainless steel Farr grills ala the F7), single headlight, low fans. They look very similiar to the F7 but for the two rectangular, screened DB vents behind the cabs. These were purchased in ABA sets as 4,500 hp locomotives dedicated for pusher services. Numbering was the same as the Phase I. This is why I purchased an ABB set of undec Stewart Phase I single headlight with high fans. Am interested in buying the Second A unit to complete my set. >> Tom's information is correct except that the 1948-49 PRR F3's were sold by Stewart as Phase IV (late) with the stainless steel Farr grills. I just received a current list of available models from Steve Stewart. All F3, F7, and F9 are out of stock. No indication they will be re-run. You will need to find a dealer who has what you are looking for. best bet is one of the large train shows or conventions. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-HELO-From: trains X-Mail-From: trains@redrose.net From: "Brian Brandt" Subject: Re: RailFest Excursion Slated for 1:30 Saturday Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 20:56:11 -0400 Content-Length: 426 The store is called the Depot Attic. From what I have been told, it has a large selection of books and other items. I likve nearby, and pass it often, but forget or in too much of a hurry to go in :( ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: in re: PRR F3s Date: Mon, 08 Sep 97 11:22:43 -0400 From: Rob Schoenberg Content-Length: 2334 Rich, Weren't the PRR's early units what Stewart called Phase II F3's? Those are the ones that he offered as factory painted in PRR at least. If not, what are the differences between Stewart's Phase II units and the PRR's... Also, Stewart offered PRR F7's in two phases (I think they were phase 1 early and late) The only difference is that one has the roof overhang in the back and one doesn't. Which is right for the Pennsy... or did EMD change the design midway through the PRR's orders? (It's awfully hard to see the roof overhang in photos!) Rob -------------- << To the person from Erie inquiring about F3 phases purchased by the PRR. It's my understanding that the PRR bought F3s in two blocks. all with dynamic brakes The first purchase, built in 1946 and 1947, was what Stewart made as a Phase I ("chicken wire" side grillls), single headlight, high fans. These were purchases in ABBA sets as a 6,000 hp freight locomotive. The A units would be matched with B units with the same number but ending in a subscript B. Later, in the late 1950s, the B units would be renumbered. The second block, built in 1948 and 1949, were what Stewart sold as Phase III (Stainless steel Farr grills ala the F7), single headlight, low fans. They look very similiar to the F7 but for the two rectangular, screened DB vents behind the cabs. These were purchased in ABA sets as 4,500 hp locomotives dedicated for pusher services. Numbering was the same as the Phase I. This is why I purchased an ABB set of undec Stewart Phase I single headlight with high fans. Am interested in buying the Second A unit to complete my set. >> Tom's information is correct except that the 1948-49 PRR F3's were sold by Stewart as Phase IV (late) with the stainless steel Farr grills. I just received a current list of available models from Steve Stewart. All F3, F7, and F9 are out of stock. No indication they will be re-run. You will need to find a dealer who has what you are looking for. best bet is one of the large train shows or conventions. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Reminder About Railfest tickets Date: Mon, 8 Sep 97 13:43:49 -0400 From: "Jerry Britton" Content-Length: 1456 Just a reminder if you are joining the group for RailFest 97 on Saturday, Oct. 4: You are responsible for purchasing your RailFest AND excursion ticket directly, on your own, prior to the event. (See http://www.railroadcity.com.) As of over a week ago, the 1:30 excursion the group will be on was 50% sold out! About a week before the event, I will poll the list for those with excursion tickets. I have an arrangement with the museum for a section of seats to be reserved for us!!! I will also be taking dinner reservations at that time. ITINERARY: 9:00 a.m. - Meet at museum. "PRR-Talk" name tags (w/e-mail addresses) disbursed Morning - Tour Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum (new movie) 11:00 a.m. - Informal Lunch (TBD) 1:00 p.m. - Gather at train station for 1:30 excursion 1:30 p.m. - Amtrak excursion up and around Horseshoe Curve to Gallitzin and back Afternoon - Tour Conrail Shops 6:00 p.m. - Dinner, probably at Hoss's (meeting room has railroad motif) Hope to see you there! --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com 1 JPEG = 1K words ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 08 Sep 1997 12:45:00 -0500 From: Bill.Laird@coastalcorp.com Subject: Re: RailFest Excursion Slated for 1:30 Saturday -Reply Content-Length: 1070 >>> jerry@dsop.com 09/05/97 07:57pm wrote>>> Someone -- I think it may have been Dan Cupper -- mentioned a store. I forget its name, but as you leave the museum and head west towards Strasburg, it's on the right. Something "Attic" I think. It's just past a decent hobby shop on the left. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't remember the name of the store but it is full of railroad paper (passes, stock certificates, calendars, timetables, etc.) and lots of other railroad memorabilia including some 12" to the foot scale switch stands, headlights, lanterns, locks, badges, etc.) Definately worth a visit and plan an hour or two for browsing. Bill Laird Houston, Texas email Bill.Laird @coastalcorp.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 14:16:45 -0400 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: Newsgroup HO locomotive survey Content-Length: 692 There is currently a survey in progress in the "rec.models.raiload" newsgroup. You can vote for three diesel locomotives you would like to see produced in HO. It must be a locomotive used by atleast two roadnames for which a quality model does not exist. Here's your chance to let manufacturers know what you want to see. My votes? 1. Baldwin Centipede 2. FM Erie-builts 3. Baldwin Shark -- Jerry Shickler Erie, PA geshick@velocity.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Newsgroup HO locomotive survey Date: Mon, 8 Sep 97 15:47:51 -0400 From: "Jerry Britton" Content-Length: 1061 >There is currently a survey in progress in the "rec.models.raiload" >newsgroup. You can vote for three diesel locomotives you would like to >see produced in HO. It must be a locomotive used by atleast two >roadnames for which a quality model does not exist. I don't do newsgroups, but feel free to pass along my vote... > > Here's your chance to let manufacturers know what you want to see. >My votes? > > 1. Baldwin Centipede > 2. FM Erie-builts > 3. Baldwin Shark Baldwin Centipede and Baldwin Shark..both painted for passenger service. I know other roads used the Sharks, what about the Centipedes? --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com 1 JPEG = 1K words ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 16:03:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: Newsgroup HO locomotive survey Content-Length: 689 > I know other roads used the Sharks, what about the Centipedes? No other roads used the sharks for passenger service, only the freight sharks. The Pennsy version would of course be painted for freight service. The other roads which used DR6-4-2000's (what we think of as passenger sharks) all had the "babyface" version of same. CNJ of course had Babyface double-enders. SBD and NdeM also had Centipedes, but not exactly the same as the Pennsy ones. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 16:16:23 -0400 (EDT) From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: in re: PRR F3s Content-Length: 1319 In a message dated 97-09-08 11:24:02 EDT, robs@protocol.zycad.com writes: << Weren't the PRR's early units what Stewart called Phase II F3's? Those are the ones that he offered as factory painted in PRR at least. If not, what are the differences between Stewart's Phase II units and the PRR's... Also, Stewart offered PRR F7's in two phases (I think they were phase 1 early and late) The only difference is that one has the roof overhang in the back and one doesn't. Which is right for the Pennsy... or did EMD change the design midway through the PRR's orders? (It's awfully hard to see the roof overhang in photos!) >> Rob: The factory painted Stewart F3's are correct for the PRR. There were very few true Phase I F3's built. PRR first order of F3 were Phase II and the second order were Phase IV. BTW phases in locomotives have generally been established in Extra 2000 a publication dedicated to diesel locomotives. PRR also had both the early and late F7's. The change in the roof occurred during the production of the PRR order. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 17:17:12 -0400 From: "C. Conan Evans" Subject: Re: Newsgroup HO locomotive survey Content-Length: 1906 Jerry Britton wrote: > >There is currently a survey in progress in the "rec.models.raiload" > >newsgroup. You can vote for three diesel locomotives you would like > to > >see produced in HO. It must be a locomotive used by atleast two > >roadnames for which a quality model does not exist. > > I don't do newsgroups, but feel free to pass along my vote... > > > > Here's your chance to let manufacturers know what you want to see. > > >My votes? > > > > 1. Baldwin Centipede > > 2. FM Erie-builts > > 3. Baldwin Shark > > Baldwin Centipede and Baldwin Shark..both painted for passenger > service. > > I know other roads used the Sharks, what about the Centipedes? > > Centipedes were also used by the Seaboard and Mexician National RR. > What manufacturers should note is that Pennsy fans need to buy them in > pairs, sortof like the FT from Stewart, with a drawbar connecting the > two. The other railroads used them individually. Trains did an > article about them back in the mid '80s; I'll find it. I'm not following the thread on the news group, but remember, the loco must be marketable in AT&SF. Just about all locos out there in mass production have the Santa Fe war paint on them and if you want a quality model, its prototype must have been on the Santa Fe. Conan Evans member of the Baltimore Society of Model Engineers and the B&O Historical Society and just back from Bayview Yard > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact > "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 17:36:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: more on HO pennsy U-boats Content-Length: 1353 A bit more research has revealed the following: a) indeed as reported here earlier by JD Panza the Pennsy U30Cs had the same carbody as the U28Cs b) what this means is that since Athearn offers the U30C in Pennsy you need to get U28C's! (Of course, Athearn offers *those* in Penn Central. Argh.) c) the sideframes on the Athearn are GSC sideframes, appropriate for the Pennsy U28Cs, but not the U30Cs. Double argh! d) the Pennsy U30Cs used Adirondack trucks. Detail Associates is listed as making Adirondack (AD) sideframes for the Athearn C truck (dash 7 style, but some spot checks revealed they should be the same as on the U boats) in the Walthers paper 1997 catalog, but the part numbers do not exist in the online catalog e) but.... the Atlas U33C/U36C has Adirondack style trucks! Bingo. f) better yet, the Atlas C30-7 is available with either truck style. I ordered spare side frames from Atlas. Maybe I'll get a second U33C and create Atlas-powered Athearn-bodied custom-painted Pennsy U28 and U30Cs with correct trucks. Anyone got pointers to decal numbering that's correct for the GE U-boats? ;-) -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Union Station Products Date: Mon, 8 Sep 97 20:10:52 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1333 Your ad here supports higher bandwidth for "Keystone Crossings". Contact "sales@dsop.com" for details! ----------------------------------------------------------------- Ever since I began selling PRR car sides from Union Station Products, I have been amazed by the number of inquiries I have received from PRR modelers wanting interchange cars with other roads. Rather than continuing to answer these queries individually, I now have the entire Union Station Products catalog online. Feel free to browse the listing at "Merchandise Service" at http://www.dsop.com/merchandise . Next up I will be offering core kits and sides from Eastern Car Works. (The ECW core kits are used to make up the USP cars, so it only makes sense that I offer these as well.) Thanks again to those who have already purchased through me. Proceeds will benefit my crusade for greater bandwidth! ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 22:16:08 -0500 (CDT) From: rboydrrs@inlink.com (Robert A. Boyd) Subject: RE: locomotive survey Content-Length: 918 Your ad here supports higher bandwidth for "Keystone Crossings". Contact "sales@dsop.com" for details! ----------------------------------------------------------------- Recently, Jerry Britton wrote: >I know other roads used the Sharks, what about the Centipedes? They were widely used on the SAL and NdeM (they were the last lot in active use- do any of them exist today, I wonder?) I understand UP was looking at the Centipede at one point- reportedly road numbers 998 and 999 were assigned, but they were never built. Speaking of Sharks: does anyone have a progress report on the HO passenger Shark that a SPF was supposed to be tooling? Bob Boyd Those Classic Trains ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 23:23:57 -0400 (EDT) From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: more on HO pennsy U-boats Content-Length: 718 Your ad here supports higher bandwidth for "Keystone Crossings". Contact "sales@dsop.com" for details! ----------------------------------------------------------------- U-boat info. Builder model PRR class numbers bld date U28C GF28a 6520-6534 9-10/66 U30C GF30a 6535-6539 1/67 Paint scheme was the large calendar numbers, no name, keystones only. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 21:17:06 -1000 From: "Eric J. Minton" Subject: Re: Newsgroup HO locomotive survey Content-Length: 1247 Your ad here supports higher bandwidth for "Keystone Crossings". Contact "sales@dsop.com" for details! ----------------------------------------------------------------- I'll second the Centipede (available in Brass for $1800.00) ant the Shark. Aloha, Eric Jerry Shickler wrote: > There is currently a survey in progress in the "rec.models.raiload" > newsgroup. You can vote for three diesel locomotives you would like > to > see produced in HO. It must be a locomotive used by atleast two > roadnames for which a quality model does not exist. > > Here's your chance to let manufacturers know what you want to see. > My votes? > > 1. Baldwin Centipede > 2. FM Erie-builts > 3. Baldwin Shark > > -- > Jerry Shickler > Erie, PA > geshick@velocity.net > > -------------------- > -------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact > "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harry W. Fitch IV" Subject: Re: locomotive survey Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 07:40:47 -0400 Content-Length: 970 Your ad here supports higher bandwidth for "Keystone Crossings". Contact "sales@dsop.com" for details! ----------------------------------------------------------------- Greetings, Today the only existent Baldwin Cab Units built for the North American market are the two ex NYC RF-16's that gained fame on the D&H. Harry Fitch hfitch@maranatha.net Acts 4:12 ---------- > From: Robert A. Boyd > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: RE: locomotive survey > Date: Monday, September 08, 1997 11:16 PM > use- do any of them(Centipede) exist today, I wonder?) I understand UP was looking > at the Centipede at one point- reportedly road numbers 998 and 999 were > assigned, but they were never built. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 10:03:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: more on HO pennsy U-boats Content-Length: 970 Your ad here supports higher bandwidth for "Keystone Crossings". Contact "sales@dsop.com" for details! ----------------------------------------------------------------- > U-boat info. > > Builder model PRR class numbers bld date > U28C GF28a 6520-6534 9-10/66 > > U30C GF30a 6535-6539 1/67 > > Paint scheme was the large calendar numbers, no name, keystones only. Just like the Athearn scheme....:-) Of course, I still need to get the decals for the numbers. Last night I did some checking... no luck. Actually, has anyone done anything along the lines of compiling a catalog of PRR decals? -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harmantas, Andrew G." Subject: RE: more on HO pennsy U-boats Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 10:14:22 -0400 Content-Length: 1074 Your ad here supports higher bandwidth for "Keystone Crossings". Contact "sales@dsop.com" for details! ----------------------------------------------------------------- Somone on this list does have a listing of Pennsy decals. It was posted many months ago, and I can't get to it from my machine's files. It was rather comprehensive, and I remember e-mailing the author to voice my objection that any decal from Walthers would receive serious consideration by any modeler. He replied, asking me for some critical reviews so he could post some opinions next to each decal he had listed. As with most everything else in my life, I haven't gotten around to it yet. Later, Andrew Harmantas, SPF and dynamic procrastinator > . > > . Actually, has > anyone done anything along the lines of compiling a catalog of PRR > decals? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: more on HO pennsy U-boats Date: Tue, 9 Sep 97 10:19:06 -0400 From: "Jerry Britton" Content-Length: 1125 Your ad here supports higher bandwidth for "Keystone Crossings". Contact "sales@dsop.com" for details! ----------------------------------------------------------------- >Actually, has >anyone done anything along the lines of compiling a catalog of PRR decals? Yes. I have links to it on "KC", but the server's not responding well right now as I am doing a monthly complete backup. (Nightly incrementals are always done at 2 a.m.) When "KC" is accessible, check http://prr.dsop.com/model/index.html . A link is there to a pretty extensive decal cross reference. However, it does not include specifics of what's in a decal set. Provides only the publisher's title for the set. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com 1 JPEG = 1K words ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Proto 2000 Date: Tue, 9 Sep 97 10:29:10 -0400 From: "Jerry Britton" Content-Length: 943 Your ad here supports higher bandwidth for "Keystone Crossings". Contact "sales@dsop.com" for details! ----------------------------------------------------------------- Anyone know if the P2K E7's ever shipped? Walthers had been saying 9/1, then 9/6. The "Railroad Telegraph" made no mention of them in their new issue, nor did they say they arrived. Anyone know? RELATED: Response has been so overwhelming for the P2K PRR GP9's due later this month, that Life Like has announced a third road number!!! --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com 1 JPEG = 1K words ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: more on HO pennsy U-boats Date: Tue, 09 Sep 97 10:37:30 -0400 From: Rob Schoenberg Content-Length: 1143 Your ad here supports higher bandwidth for "Keystone Crossings". Contact "sales@dsop.com" for details! ----------------------------------------------------------------- I have a pretty complete catalog of PRR decals on my web site... http://www.internexus.net/~robs/PRR The Microscale set isn't all that bad.... Rob >> U-boat info. >> >> Builder model PRR class numbers bld date >> U28C GF28a 6520-6534 9-10/66 >> >> U30C GF30a 6535-6539 1/67 >> >> Paint scheme was the large calendar numbers, no name, keystones only. > >Just like the Athearn scheme....:-) Of course, I still need to get the decals >for the numbers. Last night I did some checking... no luck. Actually, has >anyone done anything along the lines of compiling a catalog of PRR decals? > >-D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:03:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: Proto 2000 Content-Length: 1010 Your ad here supports higher bandwidth for "Keystone Crossings". Contact "sales@dsop.com" for details! ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Anyone know if the P2K E7's ever shipped? Walthers had been saying 9/1, > then 9/6. The "Railroad Telegraph" made no mention of them in their new > issue, nor did they say they arrived. Anyone know? > > RELATED: Response has been so overwhelming for the P2K PRR GP9's due > later this month, that Life Like has announced a third road number!!! As of this AM the E7's are listed as "in stock", the GP9s (at least PRR) as 10/01 delivery. So, this is off topic, but the new "ad" is somewhat annoying. I think it would be less so if it were at the bottom, above the footer... Oh well. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roger P. Hensley" Subject: CID, NMRA upcoming Meets Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 10:19:28 -0500 (EST) Content-Length: 2511 Your ad here supports higher bandwidth for "Keystone Crossings". Contact "sales@dsop.com" for details! ----------------------------------------------------------------- Greetings All, The Central Indiana Division of the Midwest Region, NMRA will be holding a September Meet/Sale this month at Greenfield Indiana to the East of Indianapolis followed by a meet in October in Bedford Indiana South of Indy in stone country. Here is a brief description of both meets. September 28, 1997 (Sunday) - Greenfield, Indiana Greenfield - Dealer & Modular Show & Meet Hancock County 4H Fairgrounds - 11 AM to 4 PM Dealer Tables - Dining Car - Layouts - Clinics - Photo, Model & Favorite Train Contests CID's Time Saver Switching Layout and more For more information call: Jim Wilhite at (765) 644-1887 or E-Mail Roger Hensley at rhensley@ecicnet.org October 25, 1997 (Saturday) - Bedford, Indiana Bedford Show & Meet Bedford Jr. High School Gym at the corner of 16th & O street - 11 AM to 4 PM Dealer Tables - Dining Car - Layouts - Clinics - Photo, Model & Favorite Train and Favorite Caboose Contest. (No limit - bring your own track) For more information call: Bill Litkenhous at 812-275-3634 or E-Mail Roger Hensley at rhensley@ecicnet.org Also, I wish to invite you to look over the CIDs web site at: ecicnet.org/~rhensley/cidwelco.html Our site is updated periodically with news and information about activities in the Central Indiana Division area including club information, layouts and articles from our publication, 'The Rusty Spike'. Stop by and check us out or stop by again if it has been awhile. The CID site has been in operation since May of 1995. Roger Roger Hensley - 00rphensley@bsuvc.bsu.edu - rhensley@ecicnet.org Information Systems Specialist - Ball State University - Muncie, IN === http://ecicnet.org/~rhensley/cidwelco.html ===================== === Homepage of the Central Indiana Division, Midwest Region NMRA == ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:24:16 -0400 (EDT) From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: locomotive survey Content-Length: 670 Your ad here supports higher bandwidth for "Keystone Crossings". Contact "sales@dsop.com" for details! ----------------------------------------------------------------- In a message dated 97-09-08 23:21:57 EDT, rboydrrs@inlink.com writes: << Speaking of Sharks: does anyone have a progress report on the HO passenger Shark that a SPF was supposed to be tooling? >> They have been delayed until late this year or early 98. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Ad blurb Date: Tue, 9 Sep 97 13:49:32 -0400 From: "Jerry Britton" Content-Length: 1062 Your ad here supports higher bandwidth for "Keystone Crossings". Contact "sales@dsop.com" for details! ----------------------------------------------------------------- I will give in to the numerous responses I have now received regarding the headers on "PRR-Talk" and "Conrail-Talk". I am looking to increase my bandwidth to 512K, but that triples my monthly connection costs. (Not to mention $1,200 in changeover costs.) I was hoping to offset some of that cost via advertising. It is very hard to justify increased costs when the majority of my "product" is free. However, I will remove the headers this evening. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com 1 JPEG = 1K words ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Ad blurb Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 14:26:02 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 716 On 9 Sep, "Jerry Britton" wrote: > I will give in to the numerous responses I have now received regarding > the headers on "PRR-Talk" and "Conrail-Talk". Having the ad at the beginning of each article renders the scan window of my mail reader useless. The subject is still there, but the rest of the line carries no information. Good luck with your business! As soon as my budget recovers from my N Scale PRR E7 purchase, I'll be buying some car sides to go with them! Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bob@amsignal.com Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 15:15:48 Canada Central Standard Time Subject: None Content-Length: 1985  L  B Received: by bob.amsignal.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BCBD34.4D106380@bob.amsignal.com>; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 15:23:18 -0500 Message-ID: <01BCBD34.4D106380@bob.amsignal.com> From: Bob Zoeller To: "PRR-Talk@dsop.com" , 'Derrick J Brashear' Subject: RE: Proto 2000 Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 15:22:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Confirming, Walthers has 433-21116 E7A, 433-21117 E7A (second number), 433-21118 and 433-21119 (two separate number E7B) in stock. ---------- From: Derrick J Brashear Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 1997 10:03 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: Proto 2000 Your ad here supports higher bandwidth for "Keystone Crossings". Contact "sales@dsop.com" for details! ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Anyone know if the P2K E7's ever shipped? Walthers had been saying 9/1, > then 9/6. The "Railroad Telegraph" made no mention of them in their new > issue, nor did they say they arrived. Anyone know? > > RELATED: Response has been so overwhelming for the P2K PRR GP9's due > later this month, that Life Like has announced a third road number!!! As of this AM the E7's are listed as "in stock", the GP9s (at least PRR) as 10/01 delivery. So, this is off topic, but the new "ad" is somewhat annoying. I think it would be less so if it were at the bottom, above the footer... Oh well. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 09 Sep 1997 14:35:40 -0500 From: Bill.Laird@coastalcorp.com Subject: Decals (was more on HO pennsy U-boats) Content-Length: 2081 Your ad here supports higher bandwidth for "Keystone Crossings". Contact "sales@dsop.com" for details! ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>> shadow@DEMENTIA.ORG 09/09/97 09:29am wrote>>> Just like the Athearn scheme....:-) Of course, I still need to get the decals for the numbers. Last night I did some checking... no luck. Actually, has anyone done anything along the lines of compiling a catalog of PRR decals? -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- A good listing may be found at: www.internexus.net/~robs/PRR/PRRDecals.html Personal experience with Microscale, Champion Decal, and Hearld King has been good. I try to stay away from dry transfer decals, (Clover House and others) as I haven't had much luck in applying them satisfactorly (may well be in my technique or lack thereof). Since I haven't been able to learn to apply dry transfer decals satisfactorly directly on an object, I have developed the following method which I find works for me. I apply dry transfer decals to a sheet of decal paper (Walthers and Clover House both sell it), then cut out around the resulting composite decal and apply it in the same manner as a "traditional" wet decal. I find burnishing the dry transfer decals to the flat surface of the decal paper on a flat countertop much easier than trying to line up a series of separate numbers or letters or logos, etc. on the odd shapes of rolling stock or irregular surfaces of structures. To my way of thinking "wet" decals have a big advantage over "dry" decals in that "wet" decals may be put in on an object and moved around into exact position before lightly blotting with a paper towel to "fix" in place. Once you burnish a "dry" decal it is permanent. Bill Laird Houston, Texas ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 17:41:22 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: IMPORTANT but off topic Re: Ad blurb Content-Length: 2044 Greetings to the group, For what my late input is worth, I didn't find anything objectionable about the headers. Nor did I know that there was any negative comments being sent to Jerry about them. What Jerry provides us with, Keystone Crossing and the PRR and Conrail lists, is a precious resource. And he provides it FREE for goodness sake. What Jerry does to offset his costs, should be up to him. I hope he's not too discouraged by those who may not understand what it costs to provide such a great place for us to get together. I think appologies may be in order. Sorry, but I just had to say this. These opinions are mine and mine alone. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA At 01:49 PM 9/9/97 -0400, you wrote: >Your ad here supports higher bandwidth for "Keystone Crossings". >Contact "sales@dsop.com" for details! >----------------------------------------------------------------- >I will give in to the numerous responses I have now received regarding >the headers on "PRR-Talk" and "Conrail-Talk". > >I am looking to increase my bandwidth to 512K, but that triples my >monthly connection costs. (Not to mention $1,200 in changeover costs.) I >was hoping to offset some of that cost via advertising. It is very hard >to justify increased costs when the majority of my "product" is free. > >However, I will remove the headers this evening. > >--------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator >Progressive Information Technologies >britton@pit-magnus.com >http://www.pit-magnus.com >1 JPEG = 1K words > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harry W. Fitch IV" Subject: Re: IMPORTANT but off topic Re: Ad blurb Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 19:16:44 -0400 Content-Length: 2632 I agree with Drew Harry Fitch hfitch@maranatha.net Acts 4:12 ---------- > From: Drew McGhee > To: prr-talk@dsop.com; conrail-talk@dsop.com > Subject: IMPORTANT but off topic Re: Ad blurb > Date: Tuesday, September 09, 1997 5:41 PM > > Greetings to the group, > > For what my late input is worth, I didn't find anything objectionable about > the headers. Nor did I know that there was any negative comments being sent > to Jerry about them. What Jerry provides us with, Keystone Crossing and the > PRR and Conrail lists, is a precious resource. And he provides it FREE for > goodness sake. What Jerry does to offset his costs, should be up to him. I > hope he's not too discouraged by those who may not understand what it costs > to provide such a great place for us to get together. I think appologies may > be in order. Sorry, but I just had to say this. > > These opinions are mine and mine alone. > > Drew R. McGhee > Altoona, PA > > > At 01:49 PM 9/9/97 -0400, you wrote: > >Your ad here supports higher bandwidth for "Keystone Crossings". > >Contact "sales@dsop.com" for details! > >----------------------------------------------------------------- > >I will give in to the numerous responses I have now received regarding > >the headers on "PRR-Talk" and "Conrail-Talk". > > > >I am looking to increase my bandwidth to 512K, but that triples my > >monthly connection costs. (Not to mention $1,200 in changeover costs.) I > >was hoping to offset some of that cost via advertising. It is very hard > >to justify increased costs when the majority of my "product" is free. > > > >However, I will remove the headers this evening. > > > >--------------------------------------------- > >Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator > >Progressive Information Technologies > >britton@pit-magnus.com > >http://www.pit-magnus.com > >1 JPEG = 1K words > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Nixon" Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 23:47:19 +0000 Subject: FS: New video of Altoona & PRR Content-Length: 2451 At Railfest in beginning of October, the RRers Museum in Altoona will be showing and selling this tape. They are selling it now too. There is a new video "Working on the Railroad", A Story of Altoona, PA. covering the Pennsylvania RR, which is 59 minutes long. I previewed the tape at the Pgh. Chapter NRHS meeting 9/3 and got many favorable comments. This is a tape put out by Penn State WPSX-TV. It is more a documentary about 3/4 of the tape, but has lots of nice, (about 99% black and white) some still photos and a lot of film of Pennsylvania RR steam interspersed, with color video of the interviews. They interview retired railroaders (in 1989), a couple RR consultants, and a business figure in Altoona who cover topics from Altoona building up because of the Pennsy, union and the PRR, wreck of Red Arrow, women working on the railroad, safety, blacks working on the railroad, the demise starting when the Penn Central took over, and the demise of the Penn Central based on opinions of the retired workers telling that the PRR equipment was much better, and more interesting topics. One of the primary themes was to show the PRR was the STANDARD of the world. They show a T-1 4-4-4-4 being rolled out, a shot of a loco on a test bed, with wheel spinning and going nowhere, Red Arrow wreck newsreel clip. I provided them with a black and white shot of Bellefonte Central #20 to use for the cover, only for the cost of giving me one of the first tapes done. As far as I've been told, these tapes will be sold by the Altoona Railroader's Museum and also the Horseshoe Curve gift shop, and myself. If you're a member of the Museum, place your order with them. (Postage should run $3 per indivdual tape, less if there are multiples, and Penna. tax to you PA residents like myself. I am selling the tapes, postpaid, for $29.30 to PA residents, $27.55 to non-PA but US shipments. ) SPECIAL INTRODUCTORY PRICE OF $26.75 postpaid TO PENNA & $25.00 TO OTHER U.S. STATES. email me if interested. bnixon+@pitt.edu I HAVE my first actual shipment other than the "sample" tape. One of the guys said the tape really told how it really was! All the comments were positive. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 19:03:54 -1000 From: "Eric J. Minton" Subject: Re: Ad blurb Content-Length: 1561 Aloha Jerry Things are slow right now but when the Symphony season starts at the end of the month I will be Happy to help and send $10.00 First check month. Eric BTW send me a mail address. Jerry Britton wrote: > Your ad here supports higher bandwidth for "Keystone Crossings". > Contact "sales@dsop.com" for details! > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > I will give in to the numerous responses I have now received regarding > > the headers on "PRR-Talk" and "Conrail-Talk". > > I am looking to increase my bandwidth to 512K, but that triples my > monthly connection costs. (Not to mention $1,200 in changeover costs.) > I > was hoping to offset some of that cost via advertising. It is very > hard > to justify increased costs when the majority of my "product" is free. > > However, I will remove the headers this evening. > > --------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator > Progressive Information Technologies > britton@pit-magnus.com > http://www.pit-magnus.com > 1 JPEG = 1K words > > ----------------- > ----------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact > "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 06:29:04 -0400 (EDT) From: TVPedro@aol.com Subject: DITTO'S Content-Length: 344 DITTO's to: drm6@psu.edu (Drew McGhee), j_lang@csunix1.lvc.edu (J. Alex Lang), and hfitch@maranatha.net (Hfitch) Pete ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:51:22 -0500 (CDT) From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr." Subject: PRR classification lights Content-Length: 613 When did the PRR move lights from the pilot deck to the smokebox? I suspect it was a transition thing that occurred when engines were shopped so the move may have required several years. I am trying to determine where to put the lights on my I-1 model. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 harperd@tamug.tamu.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Doug Maddox Subject: Book by Don Ball, Jr. Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:15:21 -0400 Content-Length: 558 Just got a book out of the local library, "The Pennsylvania Railroad: 1940s - 1950s". Big coffee table thing wi