From: TVondruska@aol.com Date: 01 Aug 97 09:34:17 UT Subject: Re: FoM Decals: Need Your Input Content-Length: 373 In a message dated 97-08-01 09:28:05 EDT, you write: << How about laser cut masking tape! Like a one use stencil! Might work for doing the window band at least... It could be cut to match the striping decal precisely... >> Rob, that's an interesting idea. It'd ddefinitely make life easier for a lot of modelers. Quick, run to a patent attorney. Tom V. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 01 Aug 97 10:31:34 UT Subject: Re: FoM Decals: Need Your Input Content-Length: 1336 From: TVondruska@aol.com << How about laser cut masking tape! Like a one use stencil! Might work for doing the window band at least... It could be cut to match the striping decal precisely... >> > Rob, that's an interesting idea. Discussed this idea with a vendor last night. Problem is that we are talking about an 85' mask with (not counting the window panel) six very thin gold stripes. Our thought was that, when removed from shipping backing to be applied over the model for masking purposes, the narrow strips of mask (between the exposed to-be-painted gold stripes) would be very succeptible (sp.) to twisting and alignment problems. You might be better off masking the six gold stripes yourself and using a production mask for the window panel only. However, from a marketing standpoint, it wouldn't seem that enough is being accomplished to warrant the product. A one-piece clear decal would be ideal for beginners. An advanced modeler may opt to use only the window panel of the decal and still hand-mask the gold stripes (thus avoiding the large clear decal areas). Food for thought. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com 1 JPEG = 1K words !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: 01 Aug 97 10:39:02 UT Subject: Re: FoM Decals: Need Your Input Content-Length: 448 Jerry: Could the problems which you identified be resolved by making several decals. E.G 1) he drk marron window band in the correct height slightly longer than the maximum needed which could be cut to size; 2) the gold stripes as one decal (these should not be anymore diffficult to align than the 5 stripe diesels; 3) both versions of the letterboard of appropriate width to fit above the window ban. Just a suggestion. Rich Orr !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: robs@protocol.zycad.com Date: 01 Aug 97 10:52:22 UT Subject: Re: FoM Decals: Need Your Input Content-Length: 2559 I was actually thinking of doing it the other way.... Decal stripes & painted window band... I can't even imagine trying to mask off all those thin stripes.... About the window band being part of the decal and cutting out the window openings.... The Pennsy Retail Research FOM decal instructions call for slitting the decal in an X pattern after it has set. Then you're supposed to rewet the sections over the windows and fold the extra over into the car and use more setting solution to fix it in place. The only caution would be not to use too much setting solution near the windows. A friend decaled a Walthers commuter coach for New Jersey DOT. The cars have a blue window band (like FOM but different color) and on the first side applied a bit too much solution. The decal distorted slightly in one place as it tried to snuggle down into the windows... He went a little lighter on the solution for the second side and it came out great. Guess my point was that the FOM window band can be done as a big decal, just have to be careful about applying it. (Just thinking, a very thin decal like Microscale's might pose more of a problem here...) Just some thoughts.... Rob -original From: TVondruska@aol.com << How about laser cut masking tape! Like a one use stencil! Might work for doing the window band at least... It could be cut to match the striping decal precisely... >> > Rob, that's an interesting idea. Discussed this idea with a vendor last night. Problem is that we are talking about an 85' mask with (not counting the window panel) six very thin gold stripes. Our thought was that, when removed from shipping backing to be applied over the model for masking purposes, the narrow strips of mask (between the exposed to-be-painted gold stripes) would be very succeptible (sp.) to twisting and alignment problems. You might be better off masking the six gold stripes yourself and using a production mask for the window panel only. However, from a marketing standpoint, it wouldn't seem that enough is being accomplished to warrant the product. A one-piece clear decal would be ideal for beginners. An advanced modeler may opt to use only the window panel of the decal and still hand-mask the gold stripes (thus avoiding the large clear decal areas). Food for thought. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com 1 JPEG = 1K words !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: rhensley@ecicnet.org Date: 01 Aug 97 10:56:30 UT Subject: Re: New to the PRR talk list Content-Length: 1015 >From: britton@pit-magnus.com >Date: 01 Aug 97 09:13:42 UT >To: Members of group >Subject: Re: New to the PRR talk list > >From: SteamEngine@webtv.net > >> I am Pennsy fan from Canton Ohio,I have a large layout modeled after the >> state of Pennsyvania. My layout is L shaped , it is *** set out *** >Welcome aboard! "Tom V." will be especially glad you're here, as he is in >the "minority" and will welcome another "Lines Westerner"! Well, he is certainly in the minority, but he isn't the only one from 'Lines West'. :-) >--------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Roger Roger Hensley - 00rphensley@bsuvc.bsu.edu - rhensley@ecicnet.org Information Systems Specialist - Ball State University - Muncie, IN === http://bsuvc.bsu.edu/~00rphensley/cidwelco.html ================ === The Railroads of Madison County, Indiana ======================= !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 01 Aug 97 13:49:15 UT Subject: SERVER MAY BE DOWN AM OF 8/2 Content-Length: 1434 Dear constituents of DSOP.COM: I "may" be taking the server down the morning of August 2 for installation of new server software. If this occurs, the server will be taken partially or totally offline between the hours of 8 a.m. and noon, EST. I recommend that you do not send mail to the lists, use FTP, or try to download files via the Web during these hours. Sending individual mails to the domain DSOP.COM will be fine, as will periodically trying to access the Web server. If you try the Web server and it works, I will not mind your using it. Just be forewarned that you may be cut off at any point to enable a reboot. If I proceed with the installation, the following will occur: 1) An upgrade to our router/proxy server addresses a bug which can cause timeouts and failures to FTP connections via slow speeds. 2) Our FTP server will be replaced. User account names and passwords will remain the same. This is another step towards increasing the stability and performance of the server. In the near future I am planning upgrades to the mail and list server. These changes will allow me to run fewer applications than is currently required to provide all of these services. I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. Thank you. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, hostmaster Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. hostmaster@dsop.com http://www.dsop.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: wa4bpw@Shelby.Net Date: 01 Aug 97 16:12:18 UT Subject: Re: CD-ROM Order Deadline Content-Length: 1142 Not to be a stick in the mud and so to speak off track what are we talking about on the CD Rom and how much is it ---------- > From: eminton@hula.net > To: Members of group > Subject: Re: CD-ROM Order Deadline > Date: Friday, August 01, 1997 1:10 AM > > What is Keystone Crossings? As a new participant I am not aware. I enjoy > this Group very much. > Thank You and Aloha. > Eric > > > britton@pit-magnus.com wrote: > > > Reminder: > > > > Today is the deadline for ordering Volume 1 of "Excerpts from Keystone > > > > Crossings" on CD-ROM. If you still haven't sent a check, do it today > > and > > e-mail me. This weekend I'll post who all I got orders from, so you'll > > be > > able to confirm that I have your order. > > > > Don't fret if you miss this release. Volume 2 (inclusive of Volume 1) > > should > > be announced for December delivery. > > --------------------------------------------- > > Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator > > Progressive Information Technologies > > britton@pit-magnus.com > > http://www.pit-magnus.com > > 1 JPEG = 1K words > > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Eichhorn@aol.com Date: 01 Aug 97 16:36:16 UT Subject: Re: CD-ROM Order Deadline Content-Length: 70 Jerry, Sign me up please. Thanks, George !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 01 Aug 97 17:02:52 UT Subject: Re: CD-ROM Order Deadline Content-Length: 1542 See http://prr.dsop.com/cd.html . ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ---------- From: wa4bpw@Shelby.Net To: Members of group Subject: Re: CD-ROM Order Deadline Date: 01 Aug 97 16:12:18 UT Not to be a stick in the mud and so to speak off track what are we talking about on the CD Rom and how much is it ---------- > From: eminton@hula.net > To: Members of group > Subject: Re: CD-ROM Order Deadline > Date: Friday, August 01, 1997 1:10 AM > > What is Keystone Crossings? As a new participant I am not aware. I enjoy > this Group very much. > Thank You and Aloha. > Eric > > > britton@pit-magnus.com wrote: > > > Reminder: > > > > Today is the deadline for ordering Volume 1 of "Excerpts from Keystone > > > > Crossings" on CD-ROM. If you still haven't sent a check, do it today > > and > > e-mail me. This weekend I'll post who all I got orders from, so you'll > > be > > able to confirm that I have your order. > > > > Don't fret if you miss this release. Volume 2 (inclusive of Volume 1) > > should > > be announced for December delivery. > > --------------------------------------------- > > Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator > > Progressive Information Technologies > > britton@pit-magnus.com > > http://www.pit-magnus.com > > 1 JPEG = 1K words > > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Eichhorn@aol.com Date: 01 Aug 97 17:07:24 UT Subject: Re: CD-ROM Order Deadline Content-Length: 78 Jerry, Would you repost your mailing address please. Thanks, George !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 01 Aug 97 17:23:09 UT Subject: Re: CD-ROM Order Deadline Content-Length: 925 Since there is a last minute flurry for ordering the CD (http://prr.dsop.com/cd.html), I will extend the ordering date until Tuesday, August 5. That's the date the check needs to be to me...so send it overnight mail if you have to. I do not plan to write extra CD's!!! Send to Jerry Britton, Desktop Solutions, P.O. Box 189, #191, Etters PA 17319-0189. Make payable to "Desktop Solutions" for $30 US. PA residents add $1.80 sales tax. Price includes shipping. Thank you. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ---------- From: Eichhorn@aol.com To: Members of group Subject: Re: CD-ROM Order Deadline Date: 01 Aug 97 17:07:24 UT Jerry, Would you repost your mailing address please. Thanks, George !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SteamEngine@webtv.net Date: 01 Aug 97 22:31:26 UT Subject: Re: Information on the Fort Wayne System Content-Length: 303 To Tom Vondruska, The system is still Operating .but down to two tracks,and down to one track west toward Crestline,It is up for sale and Conrail is bidding on it, That's all the information I have on the once 4-track system,that the Pennsy ran on. Ed !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hosam@gc.net Date: 02 Aug 97 08:47:08 UT Subject: Re: Alco FA-1 Content-Length: 1491 At 11:47 PM 8/1/97 UT, you wrote: >I'm in the planning stages of a PRR layout (HO) c. 1950 which will >include steam & the earliest appropriate diesels. Would the Alco FA-1 >have serviced Erie at that time? Does anyone have any thoughts >regarding the accuracy/performance of the Walther's FA-1 (Yes, I saw the >MR article)? I see the Red Caboose advertises one made by E-R Model. >Does anyone know about that company &/or have any of their loco's? >Thanks in advance! >-- >Jerry Shickler > > Greetings, I have ourchased bothe the E-R and Walthers new. Cannot recommend the E-R at all unless you just want the body, it is a good molding, the chassis stinks. The Walthers, at least the A-B-A set I bought run superbly, the body moldings are only fair. If you are going to do a PRR model then do some other body work and I don't think you will be dissapointed. I am a custom builder/painter and have never had anyone ask me to repaint or modify the body on an E-R model. I have repainted several of the Walthers FA's. Walthers offers an FA in the PRR Brunswick Green with single stripe, looks good. HOSAM Custom painted HO scale diesel locomotives & cabooses. S.A. McCall 4094 Carrsville Hwy Franklin, Va. 23851 phone (757)569-9286 for quotes or list w/prices e-mail hosam@gc.net !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TVondruska@aol.com Date: 02 Aug 97 10:59:27 UT Subject: Re: FoM Decals: Need Your Input Content-Length: 574 In a message dated 97-08-01 10:50:07 EDT, you write: << A one-piece clear decal would be ideal for beginners. An advanced modeler may opt to use only the window panel of the decal and still hand-mask the gold stripes (thus avoiding the large clear decal areas). Food for thought. --- >> Actually, I think decals are best for thin striping like the Pennsy used. A laser-cut mask would be beneficial for schemes like the ATSF blue on yellow scheme dicussed in the MR paint shop feature. Just because is qain't Pennsy doesn't mean it's not marketable. Tom V. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TVondruska@aol.com Date: 02 Aug 97 11:00:05 UT Subject: Lines West mtg.? Re: New to the PRR talk list Content-Length: 725 In a message dated 97-08-01 11:42:13 EDT, you write: << Well, he is certainly in the minority, but he isn't the only one from 'Lines West'. :-) >--------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Roger Roger Hensley - 00rphensley@bsuvc.bsu.edu - rhensley@ecicnet.org Information Systems Specialist - Ball State University - Muncie, IN >> And there's several others I haven't heard from since the Wreck of the KC. I've been toying with this idea. If I were to organize a PRR Lines West get together for late winter, early spring far enoughahead to get timely notice in all the mags, would anyone attend? Tom V. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: lpmorgan@iquest.net Date: 02 Aug 97 11:10:12 UT Subject: Lines Further West Content-Length: 772 You can add my wife and myself to the list of "Lines West" fans. We are a little further West in our interests. I am building the first stage of my "O" guage layout, loosely based on the PRR Mountain division in the 1930's. The second stage (in another room, connected by a tunnel) will be PRR, Wabash, and a little Monon in Indiana in the 1950's. I am just beginning to research the Indiana PRR 1950's at this time. Any suggestions for research material would be appreciated. I have one area of my PRR 1930's section which also needs additional help. I would like some COLOR photographs of 1930's era FREIGHT cars, both PRR and any cars labeled for major shippers. -- Larry Morgan lpmorgan@iquest.net Greenfield, IN (near Indianapolis) TCA/TTOS !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: rhensley@ecicnet.org Date: 02 Aug 97 13:09:59 UT Subject: Re: Lines Further West Content-Length: 1418 > From: lpmorgan@iquest.net > Date: 02 Aug 97 11:10:12 UT > Reply-to: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > To: Members of group > Subject: Lines Further West > > I am just beginning to research the Indiana PRR 1950's at this time. > Any suggestions for research material would be appreciated. > > I have one area of my PRR 1930's section which also needs additional > help. I would like some COLOR photographs of 1930's era FREIGHT cars, > both PRR and any cars labeled for major shippers. > -- > Larry Morgan > lpmorgan@iquest.net > Greenfield, IN (near Indianapolis) You might try the NMRA Meet at the Hancock County 4H Fairgrounds in Greenfield on September 28, 1997 from 11am to 4pm. There generally is one or two picture dealers that show up at some of our bigger meets. Most of the older pictures are B&W but some are in color. Since it is in your back yard, it would be an easy place to look. No, you don't have to be an NMRA member to attend. BTW - I live in Anderson and work in Muncie at Ball State. Roger Roger Hensley - 00rphensley@bsuvc.bsu.edu - rhensley@ecicnet.org Information Systems Specialist - Ball State University - Muncie, IN === http://bsuvc.bsu.edu/~00rphensley/cidwelco.html ================ === The Railroads of Madison County, Indiana ======================= !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hostmaster@dsop.com Date: 02 Aug 97 13:28:11 UT Subject: SITE UPDATE SUMMARY Content-Length: 1009 Dear constituents of DSOP.COM: Work on DSOP.COM concluded around noon, today, as planned. DNS, Web service, mail/list service, and AppleSearch service is restored as it was -- perhaps with some speed improvements due to software upgrades for our routing system. FTP is back online, but under a new and faster server. There should be fewer timeouts and failures. All existing accounts are as they were, but logons do not yet map to specific directories; you will "arrive" at the top level and will need to navigate to the subdirectory that you desire. Also, "anonymous" FTP is now available. If you notice any "anomolies" about FTP access or other services, please let me know. It is more likely that you will find problems before I do. Thank you. In a week or two, I will be changing the mail and list servers. This will also be done over a weekend, with advance notice. -------------------- Jerry Britton, hostmaster Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. hostmaster@dsop.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TVondruska@aol.com Date: 02 Aug 97 14:02:12 UT Subject: Re: Lines Further West Content-Length: 1423 In a message dated 97-08-02 11:46:49 EDT, you write: << The second stage (in another room, connected by a tunnel) will be PRR, Wabash, and a little Monon in Indiana in the 1950's. >> Larry, Wabash is a good choice as it was one of the railroads in which the Pennsylvania Railroad owned a majority or controlling interest during the first half of the 20th Century as was the Norfolk & Western and Detroit, Toledo & Ironton. The Pennsylvania's connections to the south, via Ohio River bridges at Cincinnati and Louisville were with the Louisville & Nashville and Norfolk & Western. Further south they were with the Atlantic Coast Line and Seaborad Airlines. Passenger connections west and southwest through St. Louis were with Missouri Pacific, MKT "Katy," and Union Pacific. The Pennsylvania shared Chicago Union Station with the CB&Q, the Gulf, Mobile & Ohio, and the Milkwaukee Road. It shared the suburban Englewood, Ill. station with the New York Central, Nickel Plate Road and the Rock Island. In the magazines you may have seen an ad for Big Four Graphics from Idianapolis. He works most fo the meets and flea markets in this area. He's got a very good selection of photos from early 1960s on, a little late for my transition-era modeling. There's a winter show at a Benedictine center on Indy's east side that was worth traveling 100 miles for the selection. Good Luck. Tom V> !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SteamEngine@webtv.net Date: 02 Aug 97 18:31:42 UT Subject: Re: Information on the Fort Wayne System Content-Length: 302 To Tom Vondruska, The system is still Operating .but down to two tracks,and down to one track west toward Crestline,It is up for sale and Conrail is bidding on it, That's all the information I have on the once 4-track system,that the Pennsy ran on. Ed !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SteamEngine@webtv.net Date: 02 Aug 97 18:35:56 UT Subject: Re: Information on the Fort Wayne System Content-Length: 302 To Tom Vondruska, The system is still Operating .but down to two tracks,and down to one track west toward Crestline,It is up for sale and Conrail is bidding on it, That's all the information I have on the once 4-track system,that the Pennsy ran on. Ed !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: wjhudson@erols.com Date: 02 Aug 97 19:32:16 UT Subject: PRR's Twighlight of Steam Content-Length: 602 Does anyone out there know of a source which lists the classes of steam locomotives that were active in the last years of steam on the Pennsy? I have seen a list for 1947, but is there a later one? Say somewhere between 1952-1956? I would assume such a list would contain engines such as B6s, L1s, K4s, I1s, H9s, and H10s.... It seems like the larger power was the first to go... Was anything else still under steam? When would each of these classes have been phased out? I'd appreciate any comments! Thanks! -- -Jim Hudson wjhudson@erols.com http://www.erols.com/wjhudson/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TVondruska@aol.com Date: 02 Aug 97 21:01:54 UT Subject: Re: PRR's Twighlight of Steam Content-Length: 1247 In a message dated 97-08-02 20:40:34 EDT, you write: << I would assume such a list would contain engines such as B6s, L1s, K4s, I1s, H9s, and H10s.... It seems like the larger power was the first to go... Was anything else still under steam? When would each of these classes have been phased out? I'd appreciate any comments! Thanks! >> What part of the system are you talking about? The Columbus Division was fairly well dieselized by 1951 or 1952 when steam loco service faciliities in Xenia, Ohio, were razed. Yet on the Sandusky branch, the southern terminus of which is about 50 miles east of Xenia, J-1 2-10-4s ruled at the head of the coal drags heading north to the Erie shore until the very end in 1957. Of course, these were among the last new steam units purchased by the Pennsylvania. Mountains and Decapods ran through most of the 1950s in Pennsylvania. The first to go were the oldest, the Atlantics and Pacifics, and the most uneconomical, the maintenence-hungry T-1 4-4-4-4s, the two Q-class engines and the S-2 Turbine. These later units were quickly replaced with the EMD E-units, the ALCO PA1 & PB1 and (a moment of awed silence please) the Baldwin BP-20 sharknoses. Tom V. Tom V. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: lpmorgan@iquest.net Date: 02 Aug 97 23:56:56 UT Subject: Re: Lines West mtg.? Re: New to the PRR talk list Content-Length: 1013 TVondruska@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 97-08-01 11:42:13 EDT, you write: > > << Well, he is certainly in the minority, but he isn't the > only one from 'Lines West'. :-) > > > >--------------------------------------------- > >Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator > > > Roger > > Roger Hensley - 00rphensley@bsuvc.bsu.edu - rhensley@ecicnet.org > Information Systems Specialist - Ball State University - Muncie, IN > >> > And there's several others I haven't heard from since the Wreck of the > KC. > > I've been toying with this idea. If I were to organize a PRR Lines > West get > together for late winter, early spring far enoughahead to get timely > notice > in all the mags, would anyone attend? > > Tom V. Where would you propose meeting? My "range" for a one day event is as far east as Columbus Ohio. I could be interested. -- Larry Morgan lpmorgan@iquest.net Greenfield, IN (near Indianapolis) TCA/TTOS !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: lpmorgan@iquest.net Date: 03 Aug 97 00:16:01 UT Subject: Re: Lines Further West Content-Length: 1988 TVondruska@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 97-08-02 11:46:49 EDT, you write: > > << The second stage (in another room, connected by a tunnel) will be > PRR, > Wabash, and a little Monon in Indiana in the 1950's. > >> > Larry, > > Wabash is a good choice as it was one of the railroads in which the > Pennsylvania Railroad owned a majority or controlling interest during > the > first half of the 20th Century as was the Norfolk & Western and > Detroit, > Toledo & Ironton. The Pennsylvania's connections to the south, via > Ohio River > bridges at Cincinnati and Louisville were with the Louisville & > Nashville and > Norfolk & Western. Further south they were with the Atlantic Coast > Line and > Seaborad Airlines. Passenger connections west and southwest through > St. > Louis were with Missouri Pacific, MKT "Katy," and Union Pacific. > The Pennsylvania shared Chicago Union Station with the CB&Q, the Gulf, > Mobile > & Ohio, and the Milkwaukee Road. It shared the suburban Englewood, > Ill. > station with the New York Central, Nickel Plate Road and the Rock > Island. > > In the magazines you may have seen an ad for Big Four Graphics from > Idianapolis. He works most fo the meets and flea markets in this area. > He's > got a very good selection of photos from early 1960s on, a little late > for my > transition-era modeling. > There's a winter show at a Benedictine center on Indy's east side > that was > worth traveling 100 miles for the selection. > > Good Luck. > > Tom V> 1960's will be a little late for me as well. I will look up Big Four Graphics. You should find me at all the TCA meets at the Benedictine Center. My PRR cap has become a trademark at these meets. Thanks for the additional information. I am going to try to track down the old PRR trackage in Indiana. Looking for any identfying PRR marks. -- Larry Morgan lpmorgan@iquest.net Greenfield, IN (near Indianapolis) TCA/TTOS !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: cupper@ibm.net Date: 03 Aug 97 02:08:35 UT Subject: Re: PRR's Twighlight of Steam Content-Length: 1801 > Does anyone out there know of a source which lists the classes of > steam locomotives that were active in the last years of steam on the > Pennsy? I have seen a list for 1947, but is there a later one? Say > somewhere between 1952-1956? > > I would assume such a list would contain engines such as B6s, L1s, > K4s, I1s, H9s, and H10s.... It seems like the larger power was > the first to go... Was anything else still under steam? When would > each of these classes have been phased out? Keep your eyes open, Jim, at train shows and such -- that list was updated and republished periodically into the early 1950s. I have seen copies of it dated around 1953 and I think even 1956. You're right -- at the end, PRR narrowed the number of steam classes in service to standardize on maintenance and parts. The last to go were B6sb, H9s/H10s, I1s/I1sa, L1s, K4s, M1/M1a/M1b, and J1/J1a, just seven classes. These were kept in certain pockets; for example, a pool of general-purpose L1s was kept at Enola for yard and miscellaneous work, even though the few remaining mainline steam assignments in 1956 and 1957 were held by M-class and on rare occasions, I-class, locomotives. And yes, the complicated large engines were quickly taken out of service -- the greatest fleet casualties being the T1 and the Q2, which were pretty much retired by 1951/52 with the arrival of America's largest fleet of E8s and hordes of F3s/F7s and Sharks. Yet the complex engines weren't the only targets -- some perfectly serviceable and reliable simple steam classes, such as the sturdy 90-member group of G5s, were also sidelined by this time. G5s retirements started in 1949 and all but about eight were gone by the end of 1953. Dan Cupper cupper@ibm.net Psalm 27:8 !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: eminton@hula.net Date: 03 Aug 97 03:04:16 UT Subject: Re: What is Keystone Crossings? Content-Length: 851 Thank You I visited it the other night Very interesting. jerry@dsop.com wrote: > From: eminton@hula.net > > > What is Keystone Crossings? As a new participant I am not aware. I > enjoy > > this Group very much. > > Wow...someone found this list without going through the web site! > > "Keystone Crossings" (a.k.a. "KC") is my Web site dedicated to the > PRR. It > is one of about a half dozen such sites that have "quantities" of PRR > data. > The URL to my site is in my signature, below. If you visit, there is a > > "Links" page with links to the other sites I mentioned. > > Happy surfing! 8-) > ----------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton > "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: eminton@hula.net Date: 03 Aug 97 03:13:03 UT Subject: Re: Lines West mtg.? Re: New to the PRR talk list Content-Length: 950 Aloha, I am much to far west so would not participate unless work had me in the same area at the same time. Thanks, Eric PRR Hawaii Division TVondruska@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 97-08-01 11:42:13 EDT, you write: > > << Well, he is certainly in the minority, but he isn't the > only one from 'Lines West'. :-) > > > >--------------------------------------------- > >Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator > > > Roger > > Roger Hensley - 00rphensley@bsuvc.bsu.edu - rhensley@ecicnet.org > Information Systems Specialist - Ball State University - Muncie, IN > >> > And there's several others I haven't heard from since the Wreck of the > KC. > > I've been toying with this idea. If I were to organize a PRR Lines > West get > together for late winter, early spring far enoughahead to get timely > notice > in all the mags, would anyone attend? > > Tom V. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: sbartlet@capecod.net Date: 03 Aug 97 09:13:09 UT Subject: Re: Lines Further West Content-Length: 536 > > I am just beginning to research the Indiana PRR 1950's at this time. > Any suggestions for research material would be appreciated. > > Larry Morgan > lpmorgan@iquest.net > Greenfield, IN (near Indianapolis) > TCA/TTOS A possible source of ideas for your railroad design might be John Armstrong's HO track plan of a PRR layout centered around Richmond, Indiana. It is in the Kalmbach book _18 Tailor-Made Model Railroad Track Plans_. The text includes some ideas for operation in the 1953 period. Steve Bartlett !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TVondruska@aol.com Date: 03 Aug 97 14:21:48 UT Subject: Re: Lines Further West Content-Length: 1056 In a message dated 97-08-03 09:25:13 EDT, Steve Bartlett writes: << A possible source of ideas for your railroad design might be John Armstrong's HO track plan of a PRR layout centered around Richmond, Indiana. It is in the Kalmbach book _18 Tailor-Made Model Railroad Track Plans_. The text includes some ideas for operation in the 1953 period >> Steve, you're on to something here, especially for passenger operations. Well seasoned railfans ifrom the Dayton area tell me that in the heyday of the PRR, Richmod was considered one of the premeiere Pennsy railfanning hotspots with SIX Pennsy lines converging on it (well, if you extend Richmond just a little bit east to include New Paris, O., just across the state line) with five of the lines carrying varnish. It was where the Panhandle Columbus-St. Louis and Chicago-Cincinnati passenger mains crossed and the Old GR&I headed north to Fort Wayne, Kalamazoo and beyond. About 1960 Model Railroader featured a layout focused on PRR passenger operations at Richmond. Tom V. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN@aol.com Date: 03 Aug 97 16:31:09 UT Subject: Re: PRR's Twighlight of Steam Content-Length: 591 Jim--- PRR employee TT's of the era generally had a section listing which classes of locomotive were banned from various sidings, branches (and even sections of main.) If you have one, or can get one, this would give you a fairly good idea of what classes were still in use. The listing was set up with a column for each class of engine, with the locations listed down one side, and an "X" in the column if the engine were banned. As time went by, steam class columns would disappear one by one, to be replaced by diesel class columns. Rich Copeland Glenside, PA !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: rhensley@ecicnet.org Date: 03 Aug 97 20:49:06 UT Subject: Amtrak Startup Date Content-Length: 429 Hi, I need the startup date of Amtrak. With everything that I have here, I don't seem to find that. :-) Roger Roger Hensley - 00rphensley@bsuvc.bsu.edu - rhensley@ecicnet.org Information Systems Specialist - Ball State University - Muncie, IN === http://ecicnet.org/~rhensley/cidwelco.html ===================== === Homepage of the Central Indiana Division, Midwest Region NMRA == !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bearpair@erols.com Date: 03 Aug 97 21:46:46 UT Subject: Re: Amtrak Startup Date Content-Length: 252 rhensley@ecicnet.org wrote: > > Hi, > > I need the startup date of Amtrak. With everything that I have here, > I don't seem to find that. :-) > > Roger > Roger - AMTRAK started operations on May 1, 1971. Mike Calo Annapolis, MD !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: MCrim1361@aol.com Date: 04 Aug 97 00:23:59 UT Subject: Re: Amtrak Startup Date Content-Length: 124 Amtrak officially took over most of the nation's intercity passenger train service on May 1, 1971. mcrim1361@aol.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 04 Aug 97 08:16:01 UT Subject: Railfanning near Altoona Content-Length: 1363 Posted this a week or so ago and not much response, let me rephrase... I will be in Williamsburg, Pa., this Saturday, about 20 minutes southeast of Altoona. I will have about 3 hours to "escape" for some railfanning. Last year I did Cresson and Tunnel Hill (Gallitzin). I've been to The Curve and to the Railroaders Museum. Though I haven't yet been to The Brickyard, I can't see driving into Altoona just for that. My thought was to check out the line from Water Street (town, not a street) to Tyrone. I think I can get from Williamsburg to Water Street in about 20-25 minutes. From there, it's just a short hop to scenic Spruce Creek. I've been to Spruce Creek before, but I didn't realize its significance as I wasn't as much of a railfan then. Where are the tunnels in relation to where the road crosses the Little Juniata River at Spruce Creek? How frequent are trains there on a Saturday between noon and 2 p.m.? Is Jack's Narrows along the stretch between Water Street and Tyrone? What other spots should I check out between Water Street and Tyrone? In Tyrone, is the junction with the Bald Eagle Branch worth seeing? --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com 1 JPEG = 1K words !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BEMIDJIAN@aol.com Date: 04 Aug 97 08:30:47 UT Subject: Re: Amtrak Startup Date Content-Length: 28 Amtrak startup was 5/1/71. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 04 Aug 97 09:11:55 UT Subject: Union Junction, Baltimore Content-Length: 1900 The Spring 1995 issue of "The Keystone", dedicated to Baltimore, leaves me with a few questions about Union Junction, sitting between Penn Station and the Union Tunnel: A 1912 map of trackage in the area does not show a wye to the trackage to the south (Calvert Station). Coming north out of Calvert, the only route curves northwest into Penn Station. At some point, a wye was added so that a train coming out of Calvert could also curve northeast into the Union Tunnel. This wye is visible on a 1930 photo of the Union Junction model board. The 1955 track diagram no longer shows the wye. Anyone know when it was installed and when it was removed? The Guilford Avenue engine facility was built in the 1800s to service passenger locos. Per a drawing in "The Keystone", it featured a 12-stall roundhouse. One place in the issue states that the roundhouse was removed prior to 1918 (the turntable remained). A photo dated 1912 shows the roundhouse already gone; another shows it there in 1911. A lead from the turntable ran NE towards Penn Station; another ran south towards Calvert. A photo in Gunnarson's "Northern Central" book shows a water pipe to the right of the turntable (when facing NE) on the south lead. Does anyone know what kind of services (coal, ash, etc.) where located at this facility, and where they were located vs. the turntable? There were none on the NW lead, per "The Keystone" photos. Were there any (besides water) on the south lead? Hank Mummert "thinks" this turntable was only used for light servicing. Add to that the obvious use of turning locos for the station. However, I find it hard to believe that coal was not to be had here. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com 1 JPEG = 1K words !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: 04 Aug 97 09:29:21 UT Subject: Re: Amtrak Startup Date Content-Length: 25 Amtrak born May 1, 1971 !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: 04 Aug 97 09:49:14 UT Subject: Re: Railfanning near Altoona Content-Length: 663 In a message dated 97-08-04 08:24:58 EDT, you write: << Juniata River at Spruce Creek? When you go through the underpass the track are about 1/2 mile west of the west portals. When you are on the bridge over the Juniata near the confluence of Spruce Creek and the Juniata you can see the portals upstream. It is difficult to get to the tunnel without getting wet, i.e. wade the river. Also, be careful where you step particularly this time of year, rattlesnakes are populous in the area and like to sun themselves on the right-of-way. Or at least they were 30 years ago when I was a PSU student and able to frequent the area. Rich Orr !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mxb13@psu.edu Date: 04 Aug 97 09:55:27 UT Subject: Re: Railfanning near Altoona Content-Length: 2199 A few thoughts from someone who visits this territory regularly: >I will be in Williamsburg, Pa., this Saturday, about 20 minutes southeast of >Altoona. I will have about 3 hours to "escape" for some railfanning. Last >year I did Cresson and Tunnel Hill (Gallitzin). I've been to The Curve and >to the Railroaders Museum. Though I haven't yet been to The Brickyard, I >can't see driving into Altoona just for that. I could. It's a great place to hang out. You get trains climbing the hill with helpers. Need I say more? >My thought was to check out the line from Water Street (town, not a street) >to Tyrone. I think I can get from Williamsburg to Water Street in about >20-25 minutes. From there, it's just a short hop to scenic Spruce Creek. >I've been to Spruce Creek before, but I didn't realize its significance as I >wasn't as much of a railfan then. >From waterstreet, take rt 45, go under the tracks, turn right, and park near the church on your left. A short walk east will take you to the tunnels. But beware: you risk a heavy fine if cited by CR police. Or you can head north from waterstreet c. 15 min. further to Tyrone. You might catch a UFS coal train on the Bald Eagle branch, as I did last Sat. Always a treat. NBER interchanges here M-W-F only. In between Tyrone & Waterstreet, there are numerous places to pull in & admire the scenery & watch the trains. >How frequent are trains there on a Saturday between noon and 2 p.m.? You should see amtrak 43 c. 1:30-1:45. Maybe 40 if he's running an hour or more late, as sometimes happens. CR traffic is just too variable to predict, maybe 2-3, maybe 7-8. >Is Jack's Narrows along the stretch between Water Street and Tyrone? No, it's between Huntingdon & Mt. Union. You can enter on foot from the village of Mapleton (consult your hi way map). Also a very scenic location, but again, if you want to go there, you'll be trespassing. You might check out Huntingdon & HUNT tower--well worth visiting. Maybe you've been there. The tower may be open on a Sat. afternoon. The Barree straight line between the tunnels and Petersburg also offers good possibilites. Mike !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: sbartlet@capecod.net Date: 04 Aug 97 11:07:21 UT Subject: Re: Railfanning near Altoona Content-Length: 431 Jerry, Railpace Magazine did a series of articles titled "Railfanning Conrail's Pittsburgh Line." The articles include topographic maps showing the area in great detail, as follows: December 1991 - Part 1 - Lewistown to Mt. Union January 1992 - Part 2 - Huntingdon to Spruce Creek February 1992 - Part 3 - Union Furnace to East Altoona May 1992 - - Railfan's Guide to Horseshoe Curve Steve Bartlett !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: dennis@bbn.com Date: 04 Aug 97 11:50:02 UT Subject: fwd: Pennsy Cabin Cars in Passenger Service Content-Length: 1589 Forwarded from the n-scale mailing list. Can anybody help this guy out? I've told him about this list. Dennis ------- Forwarded Message From: Jpk815@aol.com Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 16:39:00 -0400 (EDT) To: n-scale@lists.stanford.edu Subject: [N] Pennsy Cabin Cars in Passenger Service While reading something in a local hobby shop the other day, I discovered that starting in 1926 through the '50s the PRR used cabin cars in passenger service. According to the photos these N-5 variants wore red and gold keysones, had dulux lettering and were numbered in 5000 range. The cabin cars were tuscan red with black roofs and were marked Railway Express Agency or Passenger Service. The pics were quite handsome but they were all stand alone shots. These cars apparently were used as crew cars on long distance passenger trians heavy with mail and express, but were also pressed into frieght service when needed. My question for list members is this: Did these cars ride in the front with the head-end equipment, before the passengers, or did they ride in the rear.... and if they were in the rear, did the PRR string the head-end cars back there as well????????? In constant pursuit of realism on Pennsy Phila. Main Line of the 1940's - -1950's... Yours, JP ************************************************* If you wish to unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message body of "unsubscribe n-scale" to majordomo@lists.stanford.edu ------- End of Forwarded Message !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 04 Aug 97 12:08:03 UT Subject: Re: Pennsy Cabin Cars in Passenger Service Content-Length: 1416 From: dennis@bbn.com (Fwd from n-scale@lists.stanford.edu) > These cars apparently were used as crew cars on long distance passenger > trians heavy with mail and express, but were also pressed into frieght > service when needed. My question for list members is this: Did these cars > ride in the front with the head-end equipment, before the passengers, or did > they ride in the rear.... and if they were in the rear, did the PRR string > the head-end cars back there as well????????? Not sure where these cars rode when mixed with passenger cars, but... Some "all mail" trains ran...classified as passenger consists. While visiting Bill Lewis in York, he played a black and white video of such an "all mail" train going around Horseshoe Curve. Instead of an N5 cabin as a crew car, however, it had some variant of a passenger car at the tail end. Interesting thing was, there were helpers behind this car. Others in attendance stated that this was a "no, no" for safety reasons -- no helpers ever pushing passenger equipment. Group decided there must've been a variance since it was a dedicated mail train. Pennsy Color Guide Vol. 2 has numerous photos of "Crew Express" cars. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com 1 JPEG = 1K words !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TVondruska@aol.com Date: 04 Aug 97 12:21:03 UT Subject: Cabin Car list revised Content-Length: 613 To Rob, Rich and any one else who's interested: I've revised the Cabin Car roster from the December 1973 Keystone, adding information about the single-car N4 class that was featured in the December 1995 Model Railroader. The information is now in two ASCII HTML tables, roster and distribution by region. There is a third file, a text file, that contains a brief description of each of the 14 classes of cabin cars operated by the PRR in 1957 I'll be making this information part of my "Panhandle Pages," now under construction. I'd be happy to send these files to anyone who wants them. Tom V. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 04 Aug 97 13:12:14 UT Subject: RE: fwd: Pennsy Cabin Cars in Passenger Service Content-Length: 794 To the best of my knowledge these cabin cars were never mixed with passenger cars. The only "passenger" trains in which they appeared were all-mail and express trains which had no coaches for the rider crew. The specially assigned cabins ran as crew cars at the rear. The description of the "red and gold" keystones is fascinating. All the photos I've ever seen were black and white and so I never noticed if they were painted any differently than the freight cabooses of the period; except, of course, for the "Railway Express Agency, Assigned to Passenger Service" markings. regards Andy Miller BTW Dennis, While it does neither you nor your friend any good, Bowser offered N5s so painted in HO. I don't believe they were anything but freight car red and white. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: smithbf@mail.auburn.edu Date: 04 Aug 97 14:15:14 UT Subject: RE: Pennsy Cabin Cars in Passenger Service Content-Length: 1797 Hi All, The "Keystone" had a recent in depth article on the cabin cars in passenger service Summer 1996, Volume 29, Number 2: Color photos of the Aerotrain in Harrisburg, on the front and back covers. A review of the Weaver Models O-gauge K4s with Loewy streamlining. "How to Wash A Locomotive" - about a 1943 " runaway H-9. An interview with Clair I. Clugh, Manager, Altoona Works, retired (deceased) with many photographs from the erecting bays, shots of Altoona, and maps. The Centerspread is a painting of T-1 #6111 on Horseshoe curve in May 1942. A story on the first M1 class #4700 with many detailed pictures. >>>>>>>A story describing PRR Crew Express Cabin Cars complete with photos, >>>>>>>paint charts,train numbers and rosters. >From the listing of Keystone Table of Contents on my web page at: http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRR.html Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** "I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!" "Evolution is a fact, get used to it" _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Eichhorn@aol.com Date: 04 Aug 97 14:48:58 UT Subject: IHC/Rivarossi Pax Cars Content-Length: 674 Does anyone know how to disassemble the IHC/Rivarrossi passenger cars? It appears they are held together by a number of clear plastic pieces that extend through the bottom of the car and lock in place in the notches provided. These are 'spring-loaded' and I don't have fingers enough for the six locations. The reason I'm interested in taking them apart is that the Rivarossi's have interiors( which I intend to replicate by molding) thus providing my IHC's( which are empty) with interiors. I've tried all over the place to buy some of the interiors but they aren't available. Any help anyone might provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, George !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: smithbf@mail.auburn.edu Date: 04 Aug 97 15:04:27 UT Subject: FOM paint & decals Content-Length: 2583 With regards to the discussion of FOM decals - here is how I would deal with this problem: 1a) As has been suggested on the, one decal for the right side of the band, one for the left - this can be adjusted for car length. Lay on over the windows, and cut out the windows. Do this on a gloss finished tuscan car (the band is maroon - check the color against a drift card or the colors in the back of the PRRT&HS PRR passneger car book) 1b) Paint the car side maroon, cut a mask the shape of the band from masking tape and apply over the windows. Back spray the edge lightly with maroon to seal, and spray the car Tuscan, and unmask. N.B. I would choose 1b - this is a simple mask - great to learn on (hey do a dummy car side first - ie a sheet of styrene). I will probably paint a P5a modified in this scheme as they carried it in the late 30's and some into the 40's. 2) Use seperate decals for the stripes (one set for upper, one for lower) 3) use seperate decals for the names, numbers etc. Applying on decal over the other is done ALL the time - no gloss coat between needed! 4) Solvaset - required for the decals to sit down flat 5) Follow with Dullcote, or a gloss coat, depending on the condition of your car. Other hints - A) use Poly Scale (NOT Poly S) - they are very fine and provide a good satin finish which doesn't really need a gloss coat before decaling (you could add a little gloss directly to the color if you wish) B) Detail (grab irons etc), Paint and Decal the car sides flat (eg for Eastern Car Works) before assembling the car - this means you aren't crushing the detail on the other side and you don't have to mask the side from the underframe when painting it! Happy rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** "I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!" "Evolution is a fact, get used to it" _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hebnerj@CLARK.CC.OH.US Date: 04 Aug 97 15:13:52 UT Subject: Re: IHC/Rivarossi Pax Cars Content-Length: 144 Have you tried to purchase them directly? IHC/Rivarrossi advertises them all the time. I just saw them in the current mags. Jim Hebner !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 04 Aug 97 15:23:05 UT Subject: RE: IHC/Rivarossi Pax Cars Content-Length: 2039 Rivarossi uses two different schemes for assembling their passenger cars. The heayweights and the "1930" smoothside cars have the roof and windows cast as one clear plasitc piece (the roof is painted) with 6 tabs projecting throu the floor. The secret removing these is to start at one end. With a small screw driver, pry the 2 tabs at one end open slightly, then holding the car so that your fingers prevent the roof from slipping back into the body, pry the center 2 tabs. The last 2 tabs will probably just pop out by themselves! The new fluted R cars are a nightmare! the roof and sides are one piece, the floor is another piece and the window strips form two more pieces, one for each side. Unlike the older cars, the windows are not flat but rather are cast with projections into each window similar to Athearn cars. This overcomes the appearance of the excessive thicknes of the plastic sides as seen in the windows. Unfortunatly R uses this to hold the car together! The window projections "grab" the sides, are held in place at the top by a cast in shelf in the side and then lock the whole thing to the floor with tabs similar to the older cars. To reassemble one of these puppies you need four hands, two of which must be locked inside the car when you are done! Good luck Andy Miller >Does anyone know how to disassemble the IHC/Rivarrossi >passenger cars? It appears they are held together by a >number of clear plastic pieces that extend through the >bottom of the car and lock in place in the notches provided. >These are 'spring-loaded' and I don't have fingers enough for >the six locations. The reason I'm interested in taking them >apart is that the Rivarossi's have interiors( which I intend to >replicate by molding) thus providing my IHC's( which are >empty) with interiors. I've tried all over the place to buy some >of the interiors but they aren't available. Any help anyone might >provide would be greatly appreciated. > >Thanks, > >George > > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 04 Aug 97 15:50:58 UT Subject: Re: FOM paint & decals Content-Length: 895 From: smithbf@mail.auburn.edu: > With regards to the discussion of FOM decals - here is how I would deal > with this problem: > > 1b) Paint the car side maroon, cut a mask the shape of the band from > masking tape and apply over the windows. Back spray the edge lightly with > maroon to seal, and spray the car Tuscan, and unmask. Hmmm. Great approach. Till now, we've been thinking from the outside in. Painting the car Dark Tuscan Red first, then masking the window band out for repainting in Tuscan Red would require a much smaller mask which would be much easier to align. Only thing it doesn't address is that damned narrow gold border around the window band!!! --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com 1 JPEG = 1K words !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 04 Aug 97 15:53:40 UT Subject: Re: IHC/Rivarossi Pax Cars Content-Length: 477 From: hebnerj@CLARK.CC.OH.US > Have you tried to purchase them directly? IHC/Rivarrossi advertises them > all the time. I just saw them in the current mags. Read closely...although the cars are available, the only interior available anymore is for the Combine. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com 1 JPEG = 1K words !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: kkratts@alaska.net Date: 04 Aug 97 15:55:14 UT Subject: Re: IHC/Rivarossi Pax Cars Content-Length: 912 Eichhorn@aol.com wrote: > > Does anyone know how to disassemble the IHC/Rivarrossi > passenger cars? It appears they are held together by a > number of clear plastic pieces that extend through the > bottom of the car and lock in place in the notches provided. > These are 'spring-loaded' and I don't have fingers enough for > the six locations. The reason I'm interested in taking them > apart is that the Rivarossi's have interiors( which I intend to > replicate by molding) thus providing my IHC's( which are > empty) with interiors. I've tried all over the place to buy some > of the interiors but they aren't available. Any help anyone might > provide would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Georgegeorge Yes, these cars are held together by those six or so tabs. As a matter of fact, the roof and windows are all one peice and the pins are part of this assembly. Kevin !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: kkratts@alaska.net Date: 04 Aug 97 16:28:00 UT Subject: Re: IHC/Rivarossi Pax Cars Content-Length: 328 hebnerj@CLARK.CC.OH.US wrote: > > Have you tried to purchase them directly? IHC/Rivarrossi advertises them > all the time. I just saw them in the current mags. > > Jim Hebner No, my road doesn't haul passengers. And the PRR I model is only freight. The closest I come to passenger is mail and express. Kevin !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jpk815@aol.com Date: 04 Aug 97 19:35:39 UT Subject: PRR Newbie Content-Length: 853 Hi PRR list members! My name is J.P. I found out about this list yesterday from Dennis Rockwell who was kind enough to forward an inquiry about PRR Cabin Cars from the N Scale list for me. Thanks for your responses! By way of introduction I'm 36 and live in Alexandria, VA, about 2 miles south of Potomac Yards (RIP). I model the suburban Phila PRR mainline '40's - 50's in N Scale. I caught the Pennsy bug as a kid... I grew up in Radnor, on the Main Line and could hear the trains go by from my room at night. Both my grandfathers worked on the PRR and my dad climbed abord an MU to Suburban Station and went to work downtown every weekday of his adult life. So I've recreated about 6'x4' of my childhood in the basement. I look forward to an enjoyable exchange of info and war stories with all of you. All the best, JP !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DocMorrow@aol.com Date: 04 Aug 97 20:00:14 UT Subject: Re: Amtrak Startup Date Content-Length: 16 APRIL 1st 1976 !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveg@ibm.net Date: 04 Aug 97 20:40:11 UT Subject: Re: Amtrak Startup Date Content-Length: 304 On 04 Aug 97 20:00:14 UT, DocMorrow@aol.com wrote: >APRIL 1st 1976 > BZZZZZZZZZZZZ> Wrong! That was Conrail's startup date. May 1, 1971 for Amtrak. ------------------------------------------------- Steven M. Geisler, steveg@ibm.net P.O. Box 16156, Pittsburgh, PA 15242 (412) 920-1864 !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 04 Aug 97 20:41:14 UT From: cobrandt@eclipse.net Subject: Re: Amtrak Startup Date Content-Length: 406 DocMorrow@aol.com wrote: > APRIL 1st 1976 Was Conrail, yes?Amtrak was 5/1/71 (The only railroad birthday I ever celebrate is April 13, 1846!) -Chris -- _______ __\ /__ ----------\ P /---------- -----------\ R R /----------- ------------\ /------------ \___/ Chris Brandt cobrandt@eclipse.net http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: MCrim1361@aol.com Date: 04 Aug 97 20:55:42 UT Subject: Re: PRR "What IF" Content-Length: 178 Well, Kevin. . . I don't think I can take it much longer. . . I'm ready to see some current motive power with PRR paint and logos on it. . . I could be interested. Marvin !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hfitch@maranatha.net Date: 04 Aug 97 21:00:31 UT Subject: Dates that shall live in infamy. Content-Length: 436 Dates that shall live in infamy. December 7, 1941 Pearl Harbor February 1, 1968 Penn Central May 1, 1971 Amtrak April 1, 1976 Conrail ??????????CSX/NS/Hindenburg ?????????? Union Pacific, only railroad in the 48 States with holdings in the other two states and all territories. ????????? UP sold to foreign investors, no US railroads left. Harry Fitch hfitch@maranatha.net Acts 4:12 !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mjbst73@vms.cis.pitt.edu Date: 04 Aug 97 23:21:51 UT Subject: Tyrone bridge question Content-Length: 250 Not being from the Tyrone area, I'm not familiar with the PRR there. Just outside of Tyrone on Rte. 453 is an old rail span. Does anyone know what it was used for and when it was abandoned? Just need to satisfy my curiosity. Thanks, Matt !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: eminton@hula.net Date: 04 Aug 97 23:31:40 UT Subject: Re: PRR "What IF" Content-Length: 430 Aloha, I Model the Pennsy there wasn't any merger and the RailRoad IS the Standard. Passenger cars are Stainless with Tuscan window bands Red & white PRR Keystones similar to the ones on the Genesis someone has on a web page. Eric kkratts@alaska.net wrote: > Is anyone else doing a "what if the PRR had survived" modeling scheme? > > I've started one on paper. Anyone else interested in this? > > Kevin !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: eminton@hula.net Date: 04 Aug 97 23:38:57 UT Subject: Re: PRR Newbie Content-Length: 1092 Aloha, You don't sound like a "Newbie" to me. My worlds is a 2x8 module featuring Live catenery an GG-1's still operating on the PRRHD Eric Jpk815@aol.com wrote: > Hi PRR list members! > > My name is J.P. I found out about this list yesterday from Dennis > Rockwell > who was kind enough to forward an inquiry about PRR Cabin Cars from > the N > Scale list for me. Thanks for your responses! > > By way of introduction I'm 36 and live in Alexandria, VA, about 2 > miles south > of Potomac Yards (RIP). I model the suburban Phila PRR mainline '40's > - 50's > in N Scale. I caught the Pennsy bug as a kid... I grew up in Radnor, > on the > Main Line and could hear the trains go by from my room at night. Both > my > grandfathers worked on the PRR and my dad climbed abord an MU to > Suburban > Station and went to work downtown every weekday of his adult life. So > I've > recreated about 6'x4' of my childhood in the basement. > > I look forward to an enjoyable exchange of info and war stories with > all of > you. > > All the best, JP !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: cupper@ibm.net Date: 04 Aug 97 23:58:04 UT Subject: Re: Tyrone bridge question Content-Length: 1803 > Not being from the Tyrone area, I'm not familiar with the PRR there. > Just outside of Tyrone on Rte. 453 is an old rail span. Does anyone > know what it was used for and when it was abandoned? Just need to > satisfy my curiosity. This was the former PRR Fairbrook Branch, which ran northeastward from Tyrone through Warriors Mark and Pennsylvania Furnace to Fairbrook, 20.27 miles, where it connected with two smaller PRR branches, the Scotia Branch, 5.3 miles, and the Juniata Branch, 2.03 miles. At its eastern end, the Fairbrook Branch connected with the Bellefonte Central Railroad, and at one point in its later history, PRR sold most of this branch to the BFC. PRR's 1933 Record of Transportation Lines show PRR ownership remaining at only 2-1/2 miles eastward from Tyrone (and this would include the bridge referred to in the post) to a place named Stover, Pa., and a junction there with BFC -- obviously, the remainder of the original Fairbrook Branch. A 1937 Official Guide shows the line under BFC ownership but with the notation "freight service temporarily suspended." I do not know the date of abandonment of any portion of the branch, but it was certainly a long time ago, probably not long after that Official Guide entry. However, on the part you referred to near Tyrone, the bridge actually continued farther east than it now does, extending across the highway, until fairly recently. In about the last 10 years or so, PennDOT straightened the road and removed the abutments as a hazard to motorists. I feel sure that Mike Bezilla would be glad to dip into the research that he is conducting for a book on the BFC and enlighten us as to actual dates of PRR/BFC ownership, etc. Back to you, Mike? Dan Cupper cupper@ibm.net Psalm 27:8 !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mxb13@psu.edu Date: 05 Aug 97 08:24:41 UT Subject: Re: Tyrone bridge question Content-Length: 2439 >> Not being from the Tyrone area, I'm not familiar with the PRR there. >> Just outside of Tyrone on Rte. 453 is an old rail span. Does anyone >> know what it was used for and when it was abandoned? Just need to >> satisfy my curiosity. Dan Cupper wrote: >This was the former PRR Fairbrook Branch, which ran northeastward >from Tyrone through Warriors Mark and Pennsylvania Furnace to >Fairbrook, 20.27 miles... >I do not know the date of abandonment of any portion of the branch, >but it was certainly a long time ago >I feel sure that Mike Bezilla would be glad to dip into the research >that he is conducting for a book on the BFC and enlighten us as to actual >dates of PRR/BFC ownership, etc. Back to you, Mike? OK. First, I'm not sure how old this bridge is -- can't tell if it dates from the original construction of the Fairbrook br, which was in the 1880s. Anyway, as Dan said, this PRR branch did connect w/ the Bellefonte Central, first near the Scotia iron ore pits. It wasn't a true interchange, however. In the late 1920s, BFC built a new connector further west of State College, then bought almost the entire Fairbrook, and got trackage rights the last mile or two including over the bridge in question, to Tyrone. The PRR continued to serve a quarry a short distance east of the bridge, so they didn't want to sell this to the BFC, thus the trackage rights deal. But BFC's running into Tyrone last only c. 1929-32 or so, because the PRR refused to interchange there, they preferred Bellefonte. The BFC abandoned the Fairbrook c. 1940 and pulled up most of the rails for re-lay. However, the bridge stayed in, as the PRR still served the nearby quarry. I am not sure when service to the quarry ended. It may have been PRR or PC. There's still a PRR (quad)? hopper back in the quarry tho the rails have long been pulled up. But the bridge remained in use as a place to dump covered hoppers loaded with--well, I'm not sure. I want to say grain for local feed stores, or ammonium nitrate for explosives in nearby quarries. But I don't know for sure. So, often when driving rt 453, one could look up and see a hopper car or two spotted on the bridge. I think this practice cont'd early into the CR era, then as Dan said, PennDOT had the bridge partially dismantled to improve highway safety. More than you folks ever wanted to know about the bridge, I suspect. Mike !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 05 Aug 97 08:36:43 UT Subject: Re: FOM paint & decals Content-Length: 1206 Painting the minority area first has always been my technique. I have painted many postwar three-stripe PRR cars (and other roads) this way. I paint the PRR car gold first, then I mask the stripes with 1/64" charting tape, then paint the car tuscan. regards Andy Miller >From: smithbf@mail.auburn.edu: > >> With regards to the discussion of FOM decals - here is how I would deal >> with this problem: >> >> 1b) Paint the car side maroon, cut a mask the shape of the band from >> masking tape and apply over the windows. Back spray the edge lightly with >> maroon to seal, and spray the car Tuscan, and unmask. > >Hmmm. Great approach. Till now, we've been thinking from the outside in. >Painting the car Dark Tuscan Red first, then masking the window band out for >repainting in Tuscan Red would require a much smaller mask which would be >much easier to align. > >Only thing it doesn't address is that damned narrow gold border around the >window band!!! >--------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator >Progressive Information Technologies >britton@pit-magnus.com >http://www.pit-magnus.com >1 JPEG = 1K words > > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 05 Aug 97 08:44:58 UT Subject: RE: Dates that shall live in infamy. Content-Length: 621 Harry, You have one of your "events" of infamy wrong: December 7, 1941 "Inauguration of the Empire State Express" ;-) regards Andy Miller >Dates that shall live in infamy. > > >December 7, 1941 Pearl Harbor > >February 1, 1968 Penn Central > >May 1, 1971 Amtrak > >April 1, 1976 Conrail > >??????????CSX/NS/Hindenburg > >?????????? Union Pacific, only railroad >in the 48 States with holdings in the >other two states and all territories. > >????????? UP sold to foreign investors, >no US railroads left. > > > >Harry Fitch >hfitch@maranatha.net >Acts 4:12 > > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: dennis@bbn.com Date: 05 Aug 97 09:02:54 UT Subject: Re: Tyrone bridge question Content-Length: 839 On 5 Aug, mxb13@psu.edu wrote: > [ ... ] the bridge remained in use as a place > to dump covered hoppers loaded with--well, I'm not sure. I want to say > grain for local feed stores, or ammonium nitrate for explosives in nearby > quarries. But I don't know for sure. So, often when driving rt 453, one > could look up and see a hopper car or two spotted on the bridge. Now, I'm intrigued. Did trucks park under the bridge? Was there a chute of some sort, or just laborers with shovels? This sounds as bizarrely Pennsy as the coaling "tower" consisting of a trestle where they spotted coal hoppers. Dennis Rockwell dennis@bbn.com _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: tmahon@cfnh.com Date: 05 Aug 97 09:17:43 UT Subject: FOM Discussion Content-Length: 409 At first, thought this discussion arcane. However, humbly offer apology. The variety of techniques discussed can be of use to me for my more routine/common paint projects. The 1/64 chart tape tripped me over, a common commodity and technique, but one not contemplated by this train head. EUREKA! Keep going, you can compile and edit, and offer as a complex paint scheme primer. Regards, Tom Mahon !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: smithbf@mail.auburn.edu Date: 05 Aug 97 09:35:07 UT Subject: NMRA Convention PRR news Content-Length: 6237 Hi Fellow PRR fans, Well, I've cleared the backlog of snail mail off of my desk so now I have time to tell y'all about Madison, from a PRR perspective. Mostly, I'll focus on the National Train Show, as there wasn't too much PRR specific stuff at the convention (Al Westerfield gave his XL clinic) Model Railroad Stone Works, Langhorne PA, 215-321-1331 - as at PRRT&HS they had their BEAUTIFUL HO stone arch bridges. Next to be released (9/97), a high PRR stone arch bridge modeled after the Trenton cut-off at Langhorne - WOW!!! These people are to PRR fans what Micro engineering is to the rest of the world! Loco Masters (GHQ) They are taking reservations for an N-scale L-1 Mikado conversion for the Kato Mikado mechanism. This has got to be seen to be believed!! About the only thing you keep is the drive train - all new pewter boiler, and tons of detail, for $99.95!! They are also taking reservations for Great Northern Y-1 (boxcab) and Y-1a (EMD cab) electrics and PRR FF-2 "Snapper" electrics. These are also pewter conversion kits designed to use the Rivarossi GG-1 mechanism. They will cost $169.95. They will be available direct from GHQ, 612-374-2693, www.ghqmodels.com Sunshine Models, Box 4997, Springfield MO, 65808-4997, was displaying their new (earlier this year) F30 and FM HO flat car kits. The FM is available with revenue service decals or with company service (MOW) decals, and in a version with a short cabin and side boards. Al Westerfield had his XL Camp Cars, which have been described on this list previoulsly - look for a building update from me soon - I just finished the first kit, and they are great! Red Caboose has released their first version of the X-29 boxcar in HO. This represents the earliest (1925) cars with flat ends. New releases will include multiple different end styles. Multiple (at least 4 that I saw) road numbers will be released. These kits have all seperate details such as grab irons, brake detail etc. I picked one up for $12.00 at a hobby shop booth at the show. C&BT (at least I think that is who it was) was advertising an x-29b. They had the first test shot there, which had some errors in it that they will correct. These cars represent nearly complete rebuilds of the bodies of the X-29. No sign of the Tichy X-29 Walthers was showing off prototypes of their new releases. None of these are specifically PRR prototypes, but may be able to stand in, or be bashed to PRR specs. While I am no fan of their kits (often poorly to completely undetailed, poorly molded, and difficult to assemble), some of these might be worth a second look. An ore dock (YUP! due in Nov) 2 tracks, 44" long, over 10" high with working chutes and a "modular design" that will allow back to back and end to end combos which will completely eat up your layout room!! I would look for a lot of these to show up on modular layouts as stub ended additions. (another company was selling a resin model of the Edmund Fitzgerald - HO scale - about 8 feet long!!!!!). They will also be selling a working Bascule Bridge (Due in Feb, 33.5" long, 11" high), Ore cars (Nov), a double track concrete coaling tower (Jan), Water tank and 2 standpipes (Dec), and a wooden interlocking tower (Sept) Key Imports was showing off their T-1 models in both prototype (6110,6111) and production versions. Listing at $2200.00 - These were well done, with working tender hatches, visible stoker screw, and nice paint/lettering - worth 2k? Almost all of Key's stock has been sold (to dealers who are selling in the range of $1700). Challenger Imports S-1 I didn't actually see one, but Challenger is the ruler when it comes to great brass. I would expect as price in the $1500 - $2000 range, and I would PAY IT NOW!!!!!! These babies will appreciate quickly. BTW, anyone actually run an S-1 on a layout? - The advertisment implies that this is a collectors item for display...(hmm, make that $2000-2500!!!) Railworks - I don't know about anyone else, but I find their dark locomotive enamel (aka Brunswick Green) to be way too GREEN. Anyway, buy unpainted and paint it yourself. They are very close to releasing the MP54 MUs - WOWOWOWOWOW - incredible detail. New projects seem to be focusing on rolling stock. Precision Scale - The big dealers are wispering about Precision because they seem to have adopted a policy of not telling who their builder is. This is good and bad. It is good, because the "great" Korean builders are now sub-contracting a great deal of work, so a "Samhongsa" built loco may have very little Samhongsa work on it. It is bad, because the name on the box adds value - that is to say, part of the value of the locomotive in the future will be that it was built by the craftsmen at "so and so". Anyway, Precision seems to be courting PRR buyers with news of several locomotives in the near future. They will (or have already) release an H8, H9, H10 series, an all new R-1 electric, FF-2 electric and their version of the T-1 (probably more affordable than the Key model above). Well, That's all for now - I'm sure I've missed some items, but hey, I'm only human! Disclaimer (non-lawyers, skip this) - the above list is not intended as an endorsement of any of the products listed, nor is it intended to be complete. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** "I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!" "Evolution is a fact, get used to it" _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: 05 Aug 97 09:36:25 UT Subject: Re: PRR Newbie Content-Length: 93 JP, welcome to the group. We are always glad to have more fans of the Pennsy. Rich Orr !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: 05 Aug 97 10:01:52 UT Subject: Re: Tyrone bridge question Content-Length: 113 I believe you are referring to the Clearfield Branch. CR abandoned it within the last five years. Rich Orr !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: 05 Aug 97 10:06:06 UT Subject: Re: PRR "What IF" Content-Length: 351 I know several people who model the PRR as if it still existed. Ever see a SD70 five stripe in dk green locomotive enamel. Looks great. All of hem have maintained the Dk. green locomotive enamel color. Variations include five stripe, single stripe, no stripe Keystones only. One uses large block PRR on the locomotive long hood. Rich Orr !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: 05 Aug 97 10:10:56 UT Subject: Re: Tyrone bridge question Content-Length: 88 Ok so I was on the wrong side of town. Need to get my internal GPS fixed. Rich Orr !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hfitch@maranatha.net Date: 05 Aug 97 10:24:51 UT Subject: Re: Dates that shall live in infamy. Content-Length: 1954 Please include this in the "Dates of Infamy" plaques on your walls (if you are so minded) Andy is most certainly right! The NYC, Empire State Express, had its inaugural run on 12/07/41. In my original listing of "Dates of Infamy", I wanted a more significant comparison to the extension of the list than anything the Central ever did. Something that would jump out from the page at the reader with no misunderstanding of what I felt of the dates that followed on the list. The "Inauguration of the Empire State Express" did correspond with the December 7. 1941 attack on Hawaii. However, the Empire to be dealt with here was that of Imperial Japan. I felt that the "Inauguration of the Empire State Express" was just a nuisance to the PRR. I can see why some of us would want to add this to the list or give it sub-topic status with Pearl Harbor. In respect to the veterans of our nation, I would not personally post the NYC date with that of the plunging of our nation into world war. Harry Fitch hfitch@maranatha.net Acts 4:12 ---------- > From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org > To: Members of group > Subject: RE: Dates that shall live in infamy. > Date: Tuesday, August 05, 1997 4:44 AM > > Harry, > > You have one of your "events" of infamy wrong: > > December 7, 1941 "Inauguration of the Empire State Express" ;-) > > regards > Andy Miller > > >Dates that shall live in infamy. > > > > > >December 7, 1941 Pearl Harbor > > > >February 1, 1968 Penn Central > > > >May 1, 1971 Amtrak > > > >April 1, 1976 Conrail > > > >??????????CSX/NS/Hindenburg > > > >?????????? Union Pacific, only railroad > >in the 48 States with holdings in the > >other two states and all territories. > > > >????????? UP sold to foreign investors, > >no US railroads left. > > > > > > > >Harry Fitch > >hfitch@maranatha.net > >Acts 4:12 > > > > > > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jlevine@mcls.rochester.lib.ny.us Date: 05 Aug 97 10:44:33 UT Subject: Re: PRR "What IF" Content-Length: 788 kkratts@alaska.net wrote: > > Is anyone else doing a "what if the PRR had survived" modeling scheme? > I've started one on paper. Anyone else interested in this? > > Kevin You mean it dident? Please don't tell the folks in Coal Valley Village. They have been depending on the PRR and the LV to pick up their coal and transport it to the "Big City" for over ten years. This is a three track O-Gauge line with an inter-urban to handle local passenger traffic which uses early year diesels to handle the loads. These people a quite glad that Pennsy still rolls through their town and the kids still love to run to the tracks to watch the geeps and E-9's rumble through. Might even see an occational steam engine too. jeff Levine jlevine@mcls.rochester.lib.ny.us !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: cupper@ibm.net Date: 05 Aug 97 11:30:17 UT Subject: Re: Tyrone bridge question Content-Length: 57 Thanks, Mike. I knew you'd come through. Dan Cupper !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: cupper@ibm.net Date: 05 Aug 97 11:40:47 UT Subject: Re: FOM paint & decals Content-Length: 761 >> From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org > Painting the minority area first has always been my technique. I > have painted many postwar three-stripe PRR cars (and other roads) > this way. I paint the PRR car gold first, then I mask the stripes > with 1/64" charting tape, then paint the car tuscan. Lots of precedent for this procedure. When we painted GG1 4859 (the real one) for display in Harrisburg station, this is exactly how it was done -- primer first, then gold, then red, then dark green locomotive enamel, then pull the tape, stripe by glorious stripe. Those guys at the Strasburg RR shop really knew what they were doing -- it's been 11 years and the paint job still looks great. Dan Cupper cupper@ibm.net John 3:16 !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk@aol.com Date: 05 Aug 97 11:58:05 UT Subject: Re: Tyrone bridge question Content-Length: 405 >> On 5 Aug, mxb13@psu.edu wrote: >> [ ... ] the bridge remained in use as a place >> to dump covered hoppers... and dennis@bbn.com wrote: > This sounds as bizarrely Pennsy as the coaling "tower" > consisting of a trestle where they spotted coal hoppers. Not so. This was pretty common for unloading covered hoppers--especially for industries which didn't receive great quantities. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: 05 Aug 97 13:54:20 UT Subject: PRR X26C underframe Content-Length: 241 Can anyone verify or dispute that the X26C and the X29B have the same underframe? If they are, with the release of the X29B by C&BT shops this fall, the X26C can be modeled by replacing the dreadnaught ends with Murphy ends. Rich Orr !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bnixon@pop.pitt.edu Date: 05 Aug 97 13:56:39 UT Subject: Search for Information for old Engineer Content-Length: 1198 Hi, I got this note from a lady in Georgia who is tracking her history. Can anyone provide any insight for more info? Bill Nixon FROM: Susan Leeds, 161 Dailey Mill Rd., McDonough, GA 30253: My great grandfather, Patrick Findley, worked on the Pennsylvania Railroad for many years, mostly in the late 1800's. He started on the Allegheny - Portage Road, one of the first in the country. He remained until 1862 when after dismantling the road, he was given a position in Pittsburgh. He ran a locomotive on the Pittsburgh & Ohio before it became the Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne & Chicago Rd. In March 1873, he moved to Ashtabula, Ohio and engineered the first passenger engine over the Pittsburgh, Youngstown & Ashtabula Railroad from Ashtabula Harbor to Lawrence Junction. Poor eyesight caused his retirement in 1892. He was also a member of the Voluntary Relief Department for men of the Pennsylvania Railroad. He died in 1909 and was buried in St. Joseph's Cemetery in Ashtabula, OH. Can you please give me any help concerning this man and his long and interesting career for the PRR? Do you know of anyone who could be contacted for information? !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TVondruska@aol.com Date: 05 Aug 97 14:29:10 UT Subject: Re: PRR "What IF" Content-Length: 462 In a message dated 97-08-04 19:46:59 EDT, you write: << Is anyone else doing a "what if the PRR had survived" modeling scheme? I've started one on paper. Anyone else interested in this? >> A while back someone added tuscan coloring and gold keystones to a photo of a GE Genesis cab unit diesel and posted it to his web page. I think it may have been Crhis Brandt. The web's bust now so I can't check. Try: www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/ Tom V. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: kkratts@alaska.net Date: 05 Aug 97 16:36:32 UT Subject: Re: PRR "What IF" Content-Length: 587 eminton@hula.net wrote: > > Aloha, > > I Model the Pennsy there wasn't any merger and the RailRoad IS the > Standard. Passenger cars are Stainless with Tuscan window bands Red & > white PRR Keystones similar to the ones on the Genesis someone has on a > web page. > > Eric > > kkratts@alaska.net wrote: > > > Is anyone else doing a "what if the PRR had survived" modeling scheme? > > > > I've started one on paper. Anyone else interested in this? > > > > Kevin Eric, Sounds great. My email is kkratts@alaska.net. Drop me a line and we'll email. Kevin !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mjbst73@vms.cis.pitt.edu Date: 05 Aug 97 16:53:17 UT Subject: Re: Tyrone bridge question Content-Length: 228 I doubt it, because it spans a river (juniata???). There's a steep hilside, as I remember, where the tracks probably continued, but I couldn't see any signs of that remaining. The bridge does not cross the road anymore. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hfitch@maranatha.net Date: 05 Aug 97 18:13:44 UT Subject: Dates of Infamy Content-Length: 1953 Please include this in the "Dates of Infamy" plaques on your walls (if you are so minded) Andy is most certainly right! The NYC, Empire State Express, had its inaugural run on 12/07/41. In my original listing of "Dates of Infamy", I wanted a more significant comparison to the extension of the list than anything the Central ever did. Something that would jump out from the page at the reader with no misunderstanding of what I felt of the dates that followed on the list. The "Inauguration of the Empire State Express" did correspond with the December 7. 1941 attack on Hawaii. However, the Empire to be dealt with here was that of Imperial Japan. I felt that the "Inauguration of the Empire State Express" was just a nuisance to the PRR. I can see why some of us would want to add this to the list or give it sub-topic status with Pearl Harbor. In respect to the veterans of our nation, I would not personally post the NYC event with the one plunging of our nation into world war. Harry Fitch hfitch@maranatha.net Acts 4:12 ---------- > From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org > To: Members of group > Subject: RE: Dates that shall live in infamy. > Date: Tuesday, August 05, 1997 4:44 AM > > Harry, > > You have one of your "events" of infamy wrong: > > December 7, 1941 "Inauguration of the Empire State Express" ;-) > > regards > Andy Miller > > >Dates that shall live in infamy. > > > > > >December 7, 1941 Pearl Harbor > > > >February 1, 1968 Penn Central > > > >May 1, 1971 Amtrak > > > >April 1, 1976 Conrail > > > >??????????CSX/NS/Hindenburg > > > >?????????? Union Pacific, only railroad > >in the 48 States with holdings in the > >other two states and all territories. > > > >????????? UP sold to foreign investors, > >no US railroads left. > > > > > > > >Harry Fitch > >hfitch@maranatha.net > >Acts 4:12 > > > > > > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TVondruska@aol.com Date: 05 Aug 97 18:51:57 UT Subject: It's called a coal dock.( was Re: Tyrone bridge question ) Content-Length: 830 In a message dated 97-08-05 18:16:22 EDT, you write: << This sounds as bizarrely Pennsy as the coaling "tower" consisting of a trestle where they spotted coal hoppers. >> The proper terminology is "Coal Dock." In hilly areas a trestle would be extended out from a hill so full hoppers could be unloaded by gravity. One of the largest coal docks was at Denholm, Pa. Not all were built out from hills. I've modeled the 500-foot-long inclined coal dock which rose from was at the center of the PRR's flat steam loco service facilities at Xenia, Ohio, until it was razed after dieselization of the Columbus aand Cincinnati divisions circa 1951. Coal docks were not uniquely Pennsy, just unfamiliar in today's relative clear and odorless atmosphere. Tom "I hate the smell of bituminous coal in the morning" V. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TVondruska@aol.com Date: 05 Aug 97 19:01:58 UT Subject: Chris' PRR Genesis fantasies (was Re: what if. . .) Content-Length: 241 Attention members of What if Pennsy SIG, Check out Chris Brandt's Keystone-adorned Ge Genesis that can be viewed at the following URLs: www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/genprr1.jpg www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/genprr2.jpg Enjoy! Tom V. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mjbst73@vms.cis.pitt.edu Date: 05 Aug 97 20:29:54 UT Subject: Re: Tyrone bridge question Content-Length: 47 Thank you very much. I enjoyed your reply. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 23:14:24 -0400 Subject: ALERT TO LIST CONSTITUENTS From: Hostmaster Content-Length: 1194 Not exactly by plan, I upgraded my listserv today to a commercial product. I had been running a beta of a development application, but its development had stalled and I was starting to feel the sting of its shortcomings. I had planned to do this changeover in a week or two, but problems of today forced my hand. I have copied all subscriptions over from the old to the new servers. Everything should be okay. The command and subscriber accounts are the same. I recommend everyone send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com" just to retrieve the instructions so you have them. I will update the instructions on the Web pages over the next few days. It also may take a day or two to discover any anomolies with this new software. NOTE: Your e-mail client will now know the difference between REPLY TO SENDER vs. REPLY TO ALL (the list). Watch what you do! Let me know of any problems or concerns. Thanks. -------------------- Jerry Britton, hostmaster Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. hostmaster@dsop.com For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 23:39:24 -0400 Subject: TEST POST--PLEASE EXCUSE From: Jerry Britton Content-Length: 363 ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 08:37:19 +0100 From: mxb13@psu.edu (Mike Bezilla) Subject: Re: Tyrone bridge question Content-Length: 1331 >Did trucks park under the bridge? Was >there a chute of some sort, or just laborers with shovels? I never saw the unloading in action so I can't speak to this point. But there is/was room for a truck under the bridge. One other point: the Tyrone borough sewerage treatment plant used to be located adjacent to this bridge. Maybe they rec'd some dry material, lime or something, via covered hopper on this bridge. I mention this because just about the time the treatment plant was moved a half mile or so down the road, the hoppers stopped appearing on the bridge. A couple of clarifications: yes, the bridge spans (spanned) the Little Juniata River. And Rich, just fyi, the PRR (PC) ran its last train over the Clearfield Branch between Tyrone and Osceola Mills in June 1969. The track was abandoned shortly thereafter in favor of working out of the water level route's Clearfield yard. The Tyrone-Osceola segment included the legendary "Big Fill" and mini-horseshoe curve and a +2% grade. I don't have my track chart handy but I'm pretty sure it was in the 2.6 - 2.8% range. Mike ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 07:35:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: It's called a coal dock.( was Re: Tyrone bridge question ) Content-Length: 763 > The proper terminology is "Coal Dock." In hilly areas a trestle would be > extended out from a hill so full hoppers could be unloaded by gravity. One of > the largest coal docks was at Denholm, Pa. Not all were built out from hills. > I've modeled the 500-foot-long inclined coal dock which rose from was at the > center of the PRR's flat steam loco service facilities at Xenia, Ohio, until > it was razed after dieselization of the Columbus aand Cincinnati divisions > circa 1951. I thought it was a "Coal wharf"? -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: SORRY, ANOTHER TEST From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 09:14:02 -0400 Content-Length: 491 Sorry folks, made a "tweak" and need to test performance. Thanks. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com 1 JPEG = 1K words ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 09:54:55 -0400 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: Re: It's called a coal dock.( was Re: Tyrone bridge question ) Content-Length: 1127 There are pictures of the coal dock at Erie, PA near the turn of the century, at the following site: http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/mdbquery.html (or follow the link to the American Memory Collection of the Library of Congress on K.C.) Search for "Erie Pennsylvania Railroad" and look at the first four entries. TVondruska@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 97-08-05 18:16:22 EDT, you write: > > << This sounds as bizarrely Pennsy as the coaling "tower" > consisting of a trestle where they spotted coal hoppers. > >> > The proper terminology is "Coal Dock." In hilly areas a trestle would be > extended out from a hill so full hoppers could be unloaded by gravity. One of > the largest coal docks was at Denholm, Pa. Not all were built out from hills. > ... > Tom "I hate the smell of bituminous coal in the morning" V. -- Jerry Shickler Erie, PA geshick@velocity.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 10:07:44 -0400 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: P2K Alco FA1 Content-Length: 365 Did Proto 2000 ever release a PRR Alco FA1/FB1 set? If so, how close to prototype? Thanks! -- Jerry Shickler Erie, PA geshick@velocity.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 15:13:08 +0100 From: mxb13@psu.edu (Mike Bezilla) Subject: Re: Tyrone bridge question Content-Length: 823 Drew wrote: >This access road then crossed the tracks and traveled on to a few homes. I >believe Conrail remove this unprotected crossing (didn't even have >crossbucks) after one of the locals got their car stuck on the tracks and >was hit by a train. This access road near the bridge in question is till there, and the grade crossing of CR's Pittsburgh line is still intact--just west of former FORGE interlocking. Plummer's Crossing, I believe. The road goes nowhere, just to a few hunting camps. It's private and gated once you cross the tracks. But a decent photo location. Mike ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: NMRA Convention PRR news From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 97 10:19:51 -0400 Content-Length: 572 >Precision Scale - . . . They will (or have already) release an H8, H9, H10 >series, an all new R-1 electric, FF-2 electric and their version of the T-1 >(probably more affordable than the Key model above). - ---- I once bought a Volkswagon that was more affordable than the Key T-1! But it was steel, not brass. regards Andy Miller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: P2K Alco FA1 Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 10:36:42 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 896 On 6 Aug, Jerry Shickler wrote: > Did Proto 2000 ever release a PRR Alco FA1/FB1 set? If so, how close to > prototype? Thanks! I believe that P2K/LL released the FA-2 and FB-2, in both HO and N scales. I only have the N scale version. The only problem with the paint job is that the keystone is on the wrong end of one side of the B unit; the sides are identical, rather than reversed. It's also an excellent runner and a great puller. Dennis Rockwell dennis@bbn.com _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: NMRA Convention PRR news From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 97 10:41:44 -0400 Content-Length: 1336 originally posted to PRR-Talk cc: freightcars@fred.photo.tntech.edu Bruce Smith said (in part): >C&BT (at least I think that is who it was) was advertising an x-29b. They >had the first test shot there, which had some errors in it that they will >correct. These cars represent nearly complete rebuilds of the bodies of >the X-29. > - ------- Bruce, Were you able to assess the quality of the C&BT X29b's? Previous C&BT kits were notable for there poor paint jobs and crude castings. They were certainly not in the Intermountain/Red Caboose/P2K/Tichy category. I recently bought one of their revised kits for SFRD rebuilt reeefers and it was vastly improved. Their paint job is now quite commendable and they now include Tichy brake gear and Grandt Line ladders and hinges. Unfortunatly this throws their instructions off as they still refer to the old parts (still included on the sprue!). An obsure note appended to the bottom of the instuctions notifies the customer of the existance of the new parts but gives no further instuctions for their use. regards Andy Miller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 11:43:20 -0400 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: Re: P2K Alco FA1 Content-Length: 563 > > Did Proto 2000 ever release a PRR Alco FA1/FB1 set? If so, how close to > > prototype? Thanks! > > Only FA/FB2, P2K never did a FA/FB1. Paint scheme was right, I have not checked > beyond that. > Does anyone know approximately what years the FA2's ran on the Pennsy? -- Jerry Shickler Erie, PA geshick@velocity.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 11:51:05 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: PRR "What IF" Content-Length: 811 jlevine@mcls.rochester.lib.ny.us wrote: > > the kids still love to run to the tracks to watch the geeps and E-9's > rumble through. Might even see an occational steam engine too. > > jeff Levine jlevine@mcls.rochester.lib.ny.us Jeff, you've got PRR "What If" with those E-9's, too! Pennsy's EP22 class were all E-8's, according to two sources I found handy: Al Staufer's _Pennsy Power II_, and Trains Magazine, April, 1964, "Who's Got the Most Locomotives?" They never got to E-9's. Actually, I would like to be able to be there and watch along with you. Steve Bartlett ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 12:15:00 -0400 (EDT) From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: P2K Alco FA1 Content-Length: 740 In a message dated 97-08-06 11:47:10 EDT, you write: << Does anyone know approximately what years the FA2's ran on the Pennsy? >> The PRR FA2/FB2 locomotives were delivered in 3 batches during 5, 11, 12/51 These were all phase Ib -- no Farr grills and horizonital vents on the battery box. BTW Phase i verticle battery box vents phase 1b horizontal battery box vents Phase 2 Farr grills I do not kno when they disappeared. All of the PC FA2 were fo NYC lineage. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 12:19:43 -0400 From: "Drew R. McGhee" Subject: Re: Tyrone bridge question Content-Length: 2048 Greetings to Dennis and the group, There was reminants of a chute several years ago. Haven't been back that road recently. The dump was on the first or second span before it crossed the Little Juniata River. A truck could pull in under the bridge span and receive it's cargo directly from the car spotted on the bridge. I would agree with Mike B. that the nearby (in Ironville) Tyrone Milling was probably the ones who used it. Access was from a one lane bridge from PA Route 453 just south of Tyrone. This bridge also crosses the Little Juniata. This unloading chute was on the Main Line side of the River not the PA 453 side. There was room on the Main Line side of the River for trucks to manuver around and get under the span. This access road then crossed the tracks and traveled on to a few homes. I believe Conrail remove this unprotected crossing (didn't even have crossbucks) after one of the locals got their car stuck on the tracks and was hit by a train. As I mentioned, haven't been back there for a while though drive past it every time I head to the in-laws. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA At 09:02 AM 8/5/97 UT, you wrote: >On 5 Aug, mxb13@psu.edu wrote: > >> [ ... ] the bridge remained in use as a place >> to dump covered hoppers loaded with--well, I'm not sure. I want to say >> grain for local feed stores, or ammonium nitrate for explosives in nearby >> quarries. But I don't know for sure. So, often when driving rt 453, one >> could look up and see a hopper car or two spotted on the bridge. > >Now, I'm intrigued. Did trucks park under the bridge? Was >there a chute of some sort, or just laborers with shovels? >This sounds as bizarrely Pennsy as the coaling "tower" >consisting of a trestle where they spotted coal hoppers. > >Dennis Rockwell dennis@bbn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 12:35:42 -0400 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: Re: P2K Alco FA1 Content-Length: 932 SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 97-08-06 11:47:10 EDT, you write: > > << Does anyone know approximately what years the FA2's ran on the Pennsy? > >> > The PRR FA2/FB2 locomotives were delivered in 3 batches during 5, 11, 12/51 I believe the FA1/FB1's were made as early as 1947, but looking through the numerical rosters on KC, it appears that PRR didn't acquire them until 1951 as well. Is this correct? I'm looking to acquire the very earliest (late 40's?) appropriate diesels which may have run through Erie, which are reasonably accurate and affordable. (HO scale, not the real thing ;-)) Any other suggestions? -- Jerry Shickler Erie, PA geshick@velocity.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:22:41 -0600 From: smithbf@mail.auburn.edu (Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.) Subject: RE: NMRA Convention PRR news Content-Length: 1571 >Were you able to assess the quality of the C&BT X29b's? Previous C&BT kits >were notable for there poor paint jobs and crude castings. They were certainly >not in the Intermountain/Red Caboose/P2K/Tichy category. The casting they had was the "test shot" and had problems like incorrect side sills, which they pointed out to me, and said would be corrected. The casting was done the night before the convention, so it was a rush job. We'll just have to wait for the real thing (a few months to go yet). Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** "I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!" "Evolution is a fact, get used to it" _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 15:06:26 -0400 (EDT) From: TVondruska@aol.com Subject: Re: P2K Alco FA1 Content-Length: 2688 In a message dated 97-08-06 13:20:22 EDT, you write: << Does anyone know approximately what years the FA2's ran on the Pennsy? > >> > The PRR FA2/FB2 locomotives were delivered in 3 batches during 5, 11, 12/51 I believe the FA1/FB1's were made as early as 1947, but looking through the numerical rosters on KC, it appears that PRR didn't acquire them until 1951 as well. Is this correct? >> Thumbing through "The Diesel Builders, Vol. 2: American Locomotive Works," by John F. Kirkland, I found the following entry on page121 in a section headlined: Model FA-1 and FB-1, Specifications DL208B and DL209B (1,500 hp) ...The manufacture of locomotive in accordance to specifications Specifications DL208B and DL209B began with the delivery of two A-B-B-A sets to the Pennsylvania Railroad in July and August 1948. The A units were numbered 9600A-9603A, c/n 75987-75990; The B Units were numbered 9600B-9603B, c/n 76038-76041 Model FA-1 and FB-1, Specifications DL208C and DL209C. In order to be competitive, Alco increased the rating the 12-cylinder Vee model 244 engine to 1,600 hp in 1949. The maximum speed remained 1,000 rpmand the weights and specifications remained unchanged from specifications DL 208B and DL209B. The first production consisted of a 6,400 hp llocomotive in an A-B-B-A configuration, delivered to the Pennsylvania Railroad in March 1950 and idenbtified by road nos.9604A-9604B-9605B-9605-A and c/ns 77010-76893-76894-77011.\\ According to an article by Dave Peck in the January 1984 Mainline Modeler (pp. 40-49, prototype drawing pp.48-49, the Pennsylvania Railroad took delivery of 24 FA-2 units, numbered 9608-9631 in May, November and December of 1951 and 12 FB-2 units numbered 9608B-9630B (even numbers only) in May, November and December of 1951. Remember, diesels took oover passenger power first. E7s appeared first, circa 1947 close on their heels. Centipedes and BP 20s, the 2,000 hp Passenger Sharks went into service on passenger mains south of Erie in 1947. Dare I say it? Oh, I'll go ahead. how 'bout Fairbanks Morse Erie-Builts. PRR took first delivery of this class in November 1947 afterit was built at the GE works in Erie. You do better with shifters. The first EMD 700 hp shifter went intol service in 1939, the first Baldwin, a VO 660 (hp) model in March 1943. The first FM switchers, the H-10-44 was delivered in June 1948. hop this helps Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 15:10:10 -0400 (EDT) From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: P2K Alco FA1 Content-Length: 1142 In a message dated 97-08-06 13:20:22 EDT, geshick@velocity.net (Jerry Shickler) writes: << I believe the FA1/FB1's were made as early as 1947, but looking through the numerical rosters on KC, it appears that PRR didn't acquire them until 1951 as well. Is this correct? I'm looking to acquire the very earliest (late 40's?) appropriate diesels which may have run through Erie, which are reasonably accurate and affordable. (HO scale, not the real thing ;-)) Any other suggestions? >> PRR diesel acquisition dates 1928 A6 home built 1930 A6b home built 1937 SW 1941 NW2 1942 VO 660, SW1 1943 VO1000 1945 E7A 1947 E7B, DR12-8-3000, S1, F3A, F3B, PA1, PB1, ERIE BUILT A, ERIE BUILT B, 44 TON 1948 DS4-4-660, DS 4-4-1000, H10-44, DR6-4-2000A & B, S2, FA1, FB1, RS1, H20-44 For complete list and exact units see Vol. 3 Pennsy Diesel years pg 126-127 Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 15:24:36 -0400 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: Re: P2K Alco FA1 Content-Length: 865 vember and December of 1951. > ... > Remember, diesels took oover passenger power first. E7s appeared first, > circa 1947 close on their heels. Centipedes and BP 20s, the 2,000 hp > Passenger Sharks went into service on passenger mains south of Erie in 1947. > Dare I say it? Oh, I'll go ahead. how 'bout Fairbanks Morse Erie-Builts. PRR > took first delivery of this class in November 1947 afterit was built at the > GE works in Erie. >... Thanks for all the info! I plan on getting the P2K E7 when it's out. I also was looking for Erie-builts, but can't find one. Any ideas? --- Jerry Shickler Erie, PA geshick@velocity.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: P2K Alco FA1 From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 97 15:43:05 -0400 Content-Length: 1065 I hesitate to mention this, but, there is a company in Canada named NovaTech which makes a cast resin shell for an FM Erie-Built designed to fit on an Athearn PA Chasis. The reason I hesitate to mention it is that all the reviews and comments heard on the net say this company's products are terible. Thus forewarned, their web page URL is: www.novatech.on.ca/modelling/index.html Note that they provide no foto of their A unit model! regards Andy Miller . . . I >also was looking for Erie-builts, but can't find one. Any ideas? >--- >Jerry Shickler >Erie, PA >geshick@velocity.net > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 18:44:48 -0400 Subject: Summary of CD Orders From: Jerry Britton Content-Length: 711 I received CD orders from the following: Gary Baylor Bruce Smith Stephen Bartlett David Freshwater Scott Milligan Harry Fitch George Eichhorn If anyone else had a check in transit and their name does not appear in the list above, alert me IMMEDIATELY! Thanks. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 22:00:46 -0400 (EDT) From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: P2K Alco FA1 Content-Length: 832 In a message dated 97-08-06 15:50:55 EDT, geshick@velocity.net (Jerry Shickler) writes: << Thanks for all the info! I plan on getting the P2K E7 when it's out. I also was looking for Erie-builts, but can't find one. Any ideas? --- >> Erie builts have never been available in plastic. Redball imported then in Brass a few years ago. I think someone is planning them in brass. Not sure. Nov Tech plastic in Knigston Ont. has the shells in resin. Buyer beware. I will never do business with them again. They still owe a $110 refund on returned items. ( have since early May) Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: P2K Alco FA1 From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 97 08:50:32 -0400 Content-Length: 754 >In a message dated 97-08-06 15:50:55 EDT, geshick@velocity.net (Jerry >Shickler) writes: > > . . . I > also was looking for Erie-builts, but can't find one. Any ideas? > --- > Nov Tech plastic in Knigston Ont. has the shells in resin. Buyer beware. > I will never do business with them again. They still owe a $110 refund on >returned items. ( have since early May) > >Rich Orr > Rich, Perhaps if Jerry S buys something from them, they will have the money to send you your refund ;-) regards Andy Miller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 07:49:16 -0600 From: smithbf@mail.auburn.edu (Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.) Subject: Re: PRR X26C underframe Content-Length: 1637 Rich, I didn't want to jump in and say anything without doing my reseaerch, and now...I still don't know! But, I have some suspicions. The X-26 represents a 50 ton, basically USRA design, which was originally single (wood) sheathed. The X-26c is a massive rebuild to an all steel car. While these cars (X-26 and X-29) are the same length, I would be concerned that the X-29 underframe contained many "upgrades" over the X-26 and would therefore not be appropriate (just a guess). Does anyone in the group have detailed technical drawings of the X-26 and/or X-29? Happy rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** "I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!" "Evolution is a fact, get used to it" _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 07:54:39 -0600 From: smithbf@mail.auburn.edu (Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.) Subject: Cabin & wire car drawings Content-Length: 1556 Hi all! Does anyone out there have detailed drawings of the PRR N-4 and/or N6-B cabin car UNDERFRAMES? I am trying to find some to accurately model each class. Also, does anyone have drawings or photographs showing the mechanical details of PRR wire cars? I am looking for details on the equipment and mechanism used on the modified FM flatcars which carried large wooden platforms to service the catenary. These cars are shown in both PRR color guides but the details are obscured Happy Rails, Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** "I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!" "Evolution is a fact, get used to it" _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 12:14:49 -0400 (EDT) From: BEMIDJIAN@aol.com Subject: More re PRR Twilight of Steam Content-Length: 753 NRHS Bulletin in 1982...Lloyd Stagner article...listed status of steam on all major roads still having it in 8/57. In that month, active on PRR were 5 B6, 30 H9 or H10 2-8-0's, 25 L1, 60 I1, 30 J1, 7 M1 and 12 K4s. Total steam ownership 8/31/57, including non-active was 15 b6, 68 assorted 2-8-0, 41 L1, 108 I1, all 125 J1, 23 K4, 45 M1 and one shop 0-6-0T. Serious PRR fans will want "Keystone Steam & Electric" by Bill Edson. Usually see copies of it at area (Toledo) rail flea markets. Don't know if it still in print. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 13:12:26 -0400 From: "Kaiser, Bud" Subject: RE: NMRA Convention PRR news Content-Length: 3991 Hello to all: I just wanted to add some aditional remarks to the great summary of PRR info that Bruce Smith offered. I also was at the convention but did not meet Bruce. Maybe next year we ought to have some meeting point or badge like the rec.models.railroad guys did. Bruce wrote; Model Railroad Stone Works, Langhorne PA, 215-321-1331 - as at PRRT&HS they had their BEAUTIFUL HO stone arch bridges. Next to be released (9/97), a high PRR stone arch bridge modeled after the Trenton cut-off at Langhorne - WOW!!! These people are to PRR fans what Micro engineering is to the rest of the world! Bob Jans is the person who is manufacturing these bridges and he has counted rocks in the original to offer these in kit form. The first one offered is the 30 degree angle skewed stone arch bridge located on the Middle Division east of Tyrone, PA. The kit has 2 arches and either 2 tracks ($49.95), 3 tracks ($54.95), or 4 tracks ($59.95) Al Westerfield had his XL Camp Cars, which have been described on this list previoulsly - look for a building update from me soon - I just finished the first kit, and they are great! I'd be interested in learning what brand and color paint Bruce (or anyone else) used on his model. I asked Westerfield what he used on his samples and he said he thought it was Union Pacific Yellow from Floquil. Anybody have a good choice for the MoW yellow? C&BT (at least I think that is who it was) was advertising an x-29b. They had the first test shot there, which had some errors in it that they will correct. These cars represent nearly complete rebuilds of the bodies of the X-29. It was C&BT Shops and they plan on offering a multitude of paint schemes including the '47, '50', and '54 versions of the Merchandise Service cars. Key Imports was showing off their T-1 models in both prototype (6110,6111) and production versions. Listing at $2200.00 - These were well done, with working tender hatches, visible stoker screw, and nice paint/lettering - worth 2k? Almost all of Key's stock has been sold (to dealers who are selling in the range of $1700). Very near the Key Imports booth was the Bowser booth where they were showing their new T1 boiler with details added. It looks great for the steam guys and at about $200 with details,tender and two DC71 motors should be a great buy. Bowser also showed their new PRR tender for the K4 and other locos. I couldn't find out the class and I don't know enough about them to identify it. It seems to me to be longer that the ones currently available with the kit. The casting looked very good to me. The T1 as well as the new tender will be available before Christmas. They might even have the T1 out in September. Additional items: The Sparrow Point Division of Bethlehem Car Works will be issuing the PRR K-11 all steel stock car before the end of the year. The will basically be a Bowser 40 ft. round roof with brass sides and will list for $24.95 less T&C. Stewart Hobbies has the Baldwin VO-1000 on their offering plate. No date announced. P2000 had their new GP9 on display. These are to be made available shortly. The engines looked great but I was disappointed in the color choice for the PRR version. They chose a lighter shade of green, reminded me of a Reading engine green, that they said would show up better in the low light levels of model realroads. I still prefer the dark loco green that we've seen in the past on models. I'll probably still buy one though. The overall convention was terrific - even got to be the engineer on an SD45 in the Wisconsin Central car shops!! What a thrill for us stay-in-the office-all-day-types. Happy Railroading! Bud Kaiser bud.kaiser@lmco.com Cherry Hill, NJ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Spruce Creek it is! From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 14:16:29 -0400 Content-Length: 1110 Following everyone's excellent feedback on where to railran east of Altoona (that's a "thank you", BTW) and after reading Mike Bezilla's RailPace articles that was FAXed to me, I've decided to spend a few hours this Saturday at Spruce Creek -- weather permitting. Will likely spend some time at the Route 45 over look, other wise anywhere between the tunnels and the "natural area" just west of the town of Spruce Creek. Will try to get the video camera battery to take charge (normally doesn't). Who knows, maybe my kids can sell videos of Conrail as we know salivate over Pennsy videos! Anyone in the area is welcome to join me. Again, thanks for all the feedback. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com 1 JPEG = 1K words ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 12:43:49 -0700 From: Sharon Subject: I1s to I1sa conversion Content-Length: 800 To the group, What were the changes required to change a class I1s to class I1sa? I understand that the cutoff was increased from the original 50%. How much was required to make this change? Was just the valve chamber bushing changed or were there major changes to the valve gear too? I have seen photos of pennsy built I1s engines with airtanks on the sides and alligator crossheads, how long did this configuration last? Were all the Baldwin built I1s engines built with the airtanks on the front and with the multiple bearing crosshead? Doug Edwards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Where do I get chart tape? Etc. From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 16:05:49 -0400 Content-Length: 1168 In a recent post, Bruce Smith (this list's Raymond Leowy Distinguished Professor of Car Painting and Lettering) astonished modelers that he first paints his Pennsy cars gold and then masks out the stripes with 1/64 chart tape and then repaints in Tuscan or Dark Locomotive Enamel. Bruce: Where do I get chart tape? Is this a basic graphic arts item, or do I need to go to an architectural supply store? Seem to recall a preference towards Polly Scale paint (or was it Polly S)...what are the EXACT paint names or numbers of appropriate colors of Tuscan Red, Dark