Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 00:04:00 -0800 (PST) From: kenneth broomfield Subject: [PRR] Steam Engine Couplers X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 Subject: [PRR] Mutaul and Pennsy Magazines Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 06:20:03 -0500 Message-ID: <428BC948616D534DA0860EDF33F542AB027A34@INDYSMAIL02.am.thmulti.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] Savannah Prototype Modeelrs Meet April 8 and 9 Thread-Index: AcUeBOV89o5TVcsZRmmc9045UkdkugAS16Vg From: "Colman Gerald \(TTE\)" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Mar 2005 11:20:05.0970 (UTC) FILETIME=[9EC2A320:01C51E50] Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net To List: Wanted: Mutual Magazines March 1956 Isssue of Pennsy Magazine December 1956 Issue of Pennsy Magazine Please contact me off-list if you have any to sell. Thanks, Jerry Colman ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Park Varieties" Subject: [PRR] Bowser Ho Cars For Sale Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 07:50:21 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net I have the following surplus mint Bowser HO undecorated round roof kits = available for sale: 2 #55300 40' single door; inset roof 1 #55310 40' single door; flush roof 1 #55363 40' "turtle roof" single door 1 #55340 40' double door; inset roof 2 #55350 40' double door; flush roof 4 #55400 50' double door; flush roof All cars are $6.75 each plus actual Parcel Post shipping to your ZIP = Code. No minimum quantity requirement. Please respond directly to me = including your ZIP Code so I can quote shipping cost. Buy with = confidence; my curent Ebay rating (parkvarieties) is 950. Thanks. Frank Brua ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <9e0219c9b68a563f6468c0bb39409186@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: Conrail-Talk LIST , PRR-Talk LIST From: Jerry Britton Subject: [PRR] FOR SALE -- HO and N Scale HARRIS Tower Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 08:04:01 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net 1st of the month "For Sale" post... Merchandise Service has commissioned The N Scale Architect to produce HARRIS tower in HO and N scales. The N Scale Architect recently produced ALTO tower and the response was excellent. HARRIS is a brick tower and protected the western end of the Harrisburg, Pa., passenger station. It was built by the PRR and was succeeded by Penn Central and Amtrak. Today it is restored by the Harrisburg Chapter of the NRHS. This will be a limited release and is the first in a series of anticipated tower projects. For more information, please see... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/ms_harris.html Thank you. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] Steam Engine Couplers Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 07:56:07 -0600 To: kenneth broomfield X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 1, 2005, at 2:04 AM, kenneth broomfield wrote: > Hello everyone. I have several steamers in my fleet all from IHC, > Broadway Limited, Mantua, and Spectrum. Is there anyway that you can > put operating couplers instead of the dummy couplers on there? > Obviously it does not matter if they are KD or Horn Hook. Kenneth, Your last comment doesn't really make sense to me, since there are a wide variety of different shanks available in Kadee couplers, but not in "horn hook". In addition, if you are interested in making these conversion, surely you are not using BOTH styles? Finally, each of these makers has different issues, and in fact, sometimes w/in a maker things change, like BLI - who now seems to offer locos with WORKING front couplers (yipee!). So, as a general reference, I suggest the Kadee conversion guide at: http://www.kadee.com/conv/ho.htm And when you have specific questions... just ask! Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Bethlehem Car Works PRR heavyweight Parlor car Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 11:47:48 -0500 From: "Park Varieties" Subject: [PRR] For Sale: BLI N&W Hoppers For Your J1 Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 11:53:10 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Need some N&W hoppers to put behind your J1 for West End coal hauling?=20 I have a consignment sale of three sets of Broadway Limited N&W triple = hoppers from the first production run. These 6-car sets have the 17" = lettering and are new in the box in mint condition. Sets are: #804 (set A), #806 (set C) and #807 (set D) Each set has 6 different car numbers. Price is $99.95 per set plus = Parcel Post to your ZIP Code. You can buy one, two or all three sets.. Please reply to me directly = including your ZIP Code so I can quote shipping cost. Buy with = confidence; my current Ebay rating (parkvarieties) is 950. Thanks. Frank Brua ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 08:54:23 -0800 Subject: Re: [PRR] Sunnyside Yard From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Sunnyside Yard From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] Bethlehem Car Works PRR heavyweight Parlor car Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 12:54:36 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Hi Chris--I just looked at http://www.bethlehemcarworks.com/Products/Craftsman_Kit_Cars/index.html but I didn't see a PRR Parlor Car. Do you know something that isn't on the website? Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chany, Christopher" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 10:47 AM Subject: [PRR] Bethlehem Car Works PRR heavyweight Parlor car > Listers, > > Please excuse if a repeat but I didn't see it post. > > Anyone have a copy of the instructions for the Bethlehem Car Works PRR > heavyweight Parlor car that uses brass sides? > > Thanks > > Chris Chany > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Bethlehem Car Works PRR heavyweight Parlor car Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 14:43:12 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-reply-to: <015f01c51e90$1d434940$6401a8c0@hoxiecomp> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-index: AcUeklYwD+fEw4d1Rh+YFaAail+gRwABAqNg Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net I don't know why its not listed. Perhaps they no longer offer the kit. The car was a PRR Parlor-Restaurant car. Cars in the class were Guardian, Defender, Enterprise, B'nai Brith, and Courageous (variant with end windows). Bethlehem did not offer Courageous. The decals are still listed! regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of STEPHEN HOXIE Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 1:55 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] Bethlehem Car Works PRR heavyweight Parlor car Hi Chris--I just looked at http://www.bethlehemcarworks.com/Products/Craftsman_Kit_Cars/index.html but I didn't see a PRR Parlor Car. Do you know something that isn't on the website? Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chany, Christopher" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 10:47 AM Subject: [PRR] Bethlehem Car Works PRR heavyweight Parlor car > Listers, > > Please excuse if a repeat but I didn't see it post. > > Anyone have a copy of the instructions for the Bethlehem Car Works PRR > heavyweight Parlor car that uses brass sides? > > Thanks > > Chris Chany > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 15:22:16 -0500 From: "Richard Poole" Subject: [PRR] ONE INCH SCALE FREIGHT CARS FOR SALE From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 16:07:23 EST Subject: [PRR] ITEMS for SALE Part 1 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net List I have the following items for sale. Please contact OFF list with the above subject with questions. Prices DO NOT incl shp. A couple of the items are big and heavy.I do work out of town so responses may not be right away. PRR CT 1000E Nov 1,1945 - Good used cond $30 PRR CT 1000E Nov 1,1945 - New ,never issued,Excellent Cond $40 PRR CT 1000E Nov 1,1923-Very good cond $ 95 PRR CT 4001 6-1-1964,Excellent Cond.,never issued $20 PRR Altoona Shops & Yards,1905,Shows shop layout & complete yd $25 PRR Middle Division Interlocking Plants, Copy of 1914-1917 plans,Banks to Slope, Hollidaysburg Br,Morison Cove Br, 50 pgs,8-1/2 x 14 $25 PRR Map of 1881 MainLine from Alt. to Johnstown,Alleg. Portage RR & inclines, New Portage Br,Blue print copied from original linen. $9 PRR Mine Card & Revenue Waybill,has 3 copies with carbon paper $1 PRR Pocket calenders-1957 & 1960 $ 6 PRR Land Book of 1890 for South West Pennsylvania RailWay $350.00 PRR CT1515 Qualification Card-New,never issued $6 PRR MW200 Machinery Qualification Card- New,never issued $5 PRR MW52(D) Manual of Instructions for MW Equip. NO COVER, dated 1-1-60,very good cond. $21 PRR MW52(D) Unused,Excellent Cond $30 PRR C.E. 78 Manual for construction,unused, excellent cond. $30 PRR Gen. Notice No. 207-B, Clearances,7-1-1966, Excellent Cond. $40 PRR Demurrage Card-pad, unused $5 PRR Application for Position-Pad of 100 unused,for bidding on jobs $5 PRR Deposit Slip book-Pad,unused $5 PRR Annual Report-1925 $30 PRR Annual Report-1945 $25 PRR Annual Report - 1945,Hardbound cover,10 page Trans.& Progress,10 color pics incl 1946 cal picture,44 pg annual report,Good used cond. $50 PRR Annual Reports-1953,58 $12 PRR Annual Reports-1952,55,59,60,61,62 $15 PRR 1st Annual Report 1848 (1894 reprint)Front cover loose,pages brittle $45 PRR Locomotive Test Plant Book #18,test of K2sa-1914,Good cond. $25 PRR Locomotive Test Plant Book #32,test of I1s-1924,Good cond. $25 PRR Mid. Div ETT No.30 9-24-39 $40 PRR Mid. Div ETT No.31 4-28-40,Some G.O.'s,VG used $40 PRR Mid. Div ETT No.32 9-29-40,No G.O.'s, VG used $40 PRR Mid. Div ETT No.33 4-27-41,No G.O.'s,VG used $40 PRR Mid. Div ETT No.3 12-6-42,Some G.O.'s VG used $40 PRR Mid. Div ETT No.4 11-14-43,No G.O.'s,VG used $40 PRR Mid. Div ETT No.1 9-30-51,Some G.O.'s,pencil notes & marks,VG used $30 PRR Pgh. Reg. ETT No.5, 4-27-58,G.O.'s,VG used $25 PRR Pgh. Reg. ETT No.6, 10-26-58,VG used,unissued $25 PRR Pgh. Reg. ETT No.8, 10-25-59,VG used cond,not issued $25 PRR Pgh. Reg. ETT No.11,10-29-61,VG used cond,w/G.O.'s $20 PRR Pgh. Reg. ETT No.12,10-28-62, VG used cond,w/G.O.'s $20 PRR Cent. Reg.ETT No.4, 10-27-67,Good used cond,has all G.O.'s $20 PRR Hiring Manual - Nov,1956 Very good cond, $20 PRR Elec. Opr. Inst.,1960 rev.,VG cond, unissued $9 PRR Book of Rules,10-28-56,VG cond,unissued $9 PRR Storage stamps for baggage-full book of 100 - 5 cents, 35 cents, 75 cents $10 ea.bk PRR Grab bag assrtmnt of over 23 items in brown interoffice evlp - $25 PRR Leather Conductors wallet,Excellent Cond,slight wear on gold "RAILROAD" $30 PRR Leather Conductors wallet (well used)name still visible $5 PRR 25 year Bronze service pin $30 PRR 40 year Silver service pin $30 PRR Brite-Star Flashlight,Black,heavily used cond,Name very hard to read but there, works $12 PRR Flag & Fusee Case, Good used cond,Paint chipped from use $45 PRR Lounge Car Smoking Stand,Good used cond,not perfect,as it came out of the lounge car,Heavy $450.00 PRR Stainless Steel water can,Very Good cond $45, also 1 W/O lid - $40 PRR Keystone Whistle Sign,Excellent cond,Repainted( had to as old paint was falling off and was very rusty),Heavy $250 Thank you Pat McKinney PKMac101@aol.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 16:07:28 EST Subject: [PRR] ITEMS for SALE Part2 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net List I have the following items for sale. Please contact OFF list with the above subject with questions. Prices DO NOT incl shp. A couple of the items are big and heavy.I do work out of town so responses may not be right away. PC CT-225-G Haz. Mtl. Reg-plastic cover,good cond $12 PC 1969 Annual Report-Fair cond-water marks on cover only $5 PC 1967 Annual Report - good used cond $10 PC 1968 Annual Report - good used cond $10 PC Cent. Reg. ETT No.4 5-1-70,New,no G.O.'s $17 PC Cent. Reg. ETT No.4 5-1-70,with G.O.'s $15 PC Cent. Reg. ETT No.5 12-15-72,with green vinyl cover $18 PC Leather Conductors Wallet,Well used but still nice cond $10 PC MW1-New Unused $ 15 PC MW4-Used but excellent cond,field notes on some pages,1section for inspection,2nd section for construction $12 PC Grab Bag assrmnt of 14 items in Lrg PC 11 x 14 envlp - $20 PC MW4 - New cond,no cover $10 PC MW4 - New Cond,unused $15 PC Hand towel,Green logo and name sewn in - $18 PC Trainman Hat Badge - Excellent Cond - $45 PC Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform $40 PC Long neck Journal oil can,VG used cond $45 CR C&S Signal plans,Blue CR logo on cover,NEW,not issued $100 CR Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform $40 CR Annual Report-1982,83,85,86,87 $12 CR MW-4,NEW,never used, excellent cond. $30 CR Safety Committee sewn patch,blue background,white logo and letters $10 CR First Aid Kit,Opened,one or two packets used,VG cond,a must for train room $35 Pullman Brass Car Door handles-From Heavyweight PRR Sleepers,old former camp cars,some dinges and dents mostly to door knob,latchs move,heavy $35 Pullman Hand Towel,has PC & UP logo stamped in black ink over ea.other,gd cond - $18 Great Northern Atlas N scale FA1 (2 units)-older stock,not run,tested only $50pr Atlas SD7,w/DB, undec,new ,tested only,cracked plastic box $45 Atlas SD9,NKP,no DB,new ,tested only,w/plastic box $45 Unmarked Kero can,used good cond. - $35 Unmarked Battery Flashing Markers - New, Orange plastic body,yellow lens - $40ea or$70pr Unmarked Battery Flashing Markers,good used cond,not perfect but still work fine,plastic body,1-yellow, 1-orange $30ea or $50pr Unmarked STARR Car Insp blue lite,non-Flashing,orange body - $25 Thank you. Pat McKinney PKMac101@aol.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] September 6, 1965; Warsaw, Indiana Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 22:21:47 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net PRR Listers: Here is a somber entry in the Warsaw Tower (KS) on the Fort Wayne Line = for September 6, 1965: "CG-2 (GP-9 7062) hit auto at Youngs crossing 6:39pm. Killed Brenda = Lombardi psgr. Sent Gerald A. Lombardi sent to hospital. Murphy Medical = Center. Address 1125 Erie St. Logansport, Ind. 1st release 7:25pm 2nd release at 7:52pm" =20 ...these accidents still happen today despite Operation Lifesaver. =20 Ted ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "J W Box" Subject: [PRR] PRR Turntable Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 22:47:18 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4927.1200 In-reply-to: <11952-3EA43264-511@storefull-2113.public.lawson.webtv.net> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Dear Listers: Someday, I'd like to make a PRR turntable. Does anyone know where I can find plans for the table itself? I can find plans for the foundations and the wood decking, but not for the table, the gantry or the control house. Any guidance would be appreciated. Bill Box ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 21:42:13 -0600 (CST) Subject: [PRR] For Sale: Sunset I1 w/long haul tender From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal References: In-Reply-To: Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Hi Folks, I am offering a Sunset Models Prestige Series I1, unpainted for $300 plus shipping and insurance (required). I bought this loco before I knew what a "modern" front end was . This is a GREAT "starter" brass engine. The loco has had very little use and shows no tread wear. It runs well on my test track. Almost no tarnish (see photos). This loco features: -Sprung drivers -Drivers 2,3 and 4 are "blind" -"Modern" front end -air pumps on fireman's and engineer's sides -Long haul tender with 3 man doghouse and 8 wheel trucks -Parallel hatches on tender deck, no train phone (but the correct hatch arrangement for one) -Rear kadee #5, front dummy coupler -Can motor -Stamped backhead detail -Original box (moderate wear) Photos: http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/Models/I101.jpg http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/Models/I102.jpg http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/Models/I103.jpg http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/Models/I104.jpg I want to "thin the herd" a bit, and since this loco is after my time, it needs to go! This might be a great project for you to do when PRRPro starts the I1 project. The easiest approach would be to simply paint it. However, some of the details can be replaced or upgraded to make a truely unique loco, and with that BIG tender, its a cinch for a soundtraxx installation. Regards Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Douglas Nelson" Subject: RE: [PRR] Sunnyside Yard Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 19:46:04 -0800 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <1102426429-19459863@dsop.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 6b73c4bfaee5d95e1a2467d70233b1a70a9da525759e2654c27fa030e395f110330e913a52989da1f966978d6047df59350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 165.121.199.114 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net This is one of Claus' and my favorite subjects, but I may have to = suggest a slight disagreement. I agree that these lattice poles are from the = original 1910 construction of Sunnyside Yard. My initial thought was that they transmitted power for the third rail electrification, but these poles carried 28 closely spaced separate wires that were present at least = through the 1950s, some 30 years after the 1933 conversion to overhead catenary. Therefore, I think that these poles carried telegraph/telephone wires = rather than electric power. Or maybe they carried both? They remain a great relic. Doug Nelson -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Claus Schlund Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 8:54 AM To: Chany, Christopher Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Sunnyside Yard Hi, These were for the 1906 DC electrification. Remember, when Sunnyside first openen, there was no catenary. Everything = was third rail until the early 1930's. There are similar lattice poles at the Hackensack River swing bridge in NJ. They are still there today, but devoid of wires. - Claus From: "Chany, Christopher" To: 'PRR-Talk LIST' Subject: [PRR] Sunnyside Yard Date sent: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 15:52:45 -0500 > Listers, >=20 > A friend was out taking photos of Sunnyside yard the other day. In=20 > the photos there are what look like large telephone pole type=20 > structures. They are higher than the catenary poles, have cross arms = like telephone poles, > but have metal lattice "poles". Currently they have no wires on = them. > Anyone know what they were used for, and when the wires were removed? >=20 >=20 > Chris Chany >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. >=20 >=20 >=20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "J W Box" Subject: [PRR] Loco cab coverings Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 22:57:23 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4927.1200 In-reply-to: <11952-3EA43264-511@storefull-2113.public.lawson.webtv.net> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Listers: I have an old issue of "The High Line" that has a great photo of a B8 and an H class loco (If I remember right) on the turntable in Philadelphia. Both of their cab roofs are clearly covered with a cloth-like material. You can see the wrinkles. Does anyone know if this was standard practice? I have never seen this modeled. It would make for a distinctive feature and almost completely obliterates the rivets. Bill Box ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Hough " Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 21:52:08 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Turntable From: "Robert Kessler" Subject: RE: [PRR] Bethlehem Car Works PRR heavyweight Parlor car Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 20:18:05 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 Thread-Index: AcUeo8tYXBH69jdPQjyxhlZXDmC7YgANfEHw In-Reply-To: <38132.75859@dsop.com> Message-ID: <1102385384-21922790@dsop.com> Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Chris: Bethlehem Car Works listed the car sides as part #441 in the past. They are no longer offered on the web site. The sides were not part of a kit, but, to be used in place of the original sides of the Rivarossi 12-1 Pullman. I will be building my model later this year and visualize the process as being similar to using brass car sides with a "core" kit. Model Railroader has what looks like a pretty good series going on this topic in their March and April 2005 issues. I can answer detailed questions off-list. Bob Kessler ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Peters" Subject: Re: [PRR] Sunnyside Yard Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 08:58:44 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net You may have forgotten the third rail remained in place on many yard tracks into the 1960's inclusing all traversed by LIRR passenger into Penn Sta. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Nelson" To: "'Claus Schlund'" ; "'Chany, Christopher'" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 10:46 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] Sunnyside Yard This is one of Claus' and my favorite subjects, but I may have to suggest a slight disagreement. I agree that these lattice poles are from the original 1910 construction of Sunnyside Yard. My initial thought was that they transmitted power for the third rail electrification, but these poles carried 28 closely spaced separate wires that were present at least through the 1950s, some 30 years after the 1933 conversion to overhead catenary. Therefore, I think that these poles carried telegraph/telephone wires rather than electric power. Or maybe they carried both? They remain a great relic. Doug Nelson -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Claus Schlund Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 8:54 AM To: Chany, Christopher Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Sunnyside Yard Hi, These were for the 1906 DC electrification. Remember, when Sunnyside first openen, there was no catenary. Everything was third rail until the early 1930's. There are similar lattice poles at the Hackensack River swing bridge in NJ. They are still there today, but devoid of wires. - Claus From: "Chany, Christopher" To: 'PRR-Talk LIST' Subject: [PRR] Sunnyside Yard Date sent: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 15:52:45 -0500 > Listers, > > A friend was out taking photos of Sunnyside yard the other day. In > the photos there are what look like large telephone pole type > structures. They are higher than the catenary poles, have cross arms like telephone poles, > but have metal lattice "poles". Currently they have no wires on them. > Anyone know what they were used for, and when the wires were removed? > > > Chris Chany > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] U-25B Question.....THANK YOU Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 21:45:15 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Thank you for all who responded to my question a few days ago. I will = model accordingly. Ted ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Trailer Train question Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 21:52:54 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Listers: While this is not strictly on PRR subject matter, the Pennsy did haul = allot of these cars in their Truc Trains. Does anyone make decals for = Trailer Train flat cars for the mid-60's era? Specifically, I am looking = the those decals used on 85', 86', and 89' long flat cars that were = painted boxcar red. I know that Champ made some (part no. HC-296) but = these are few and far between. One other question on these cars. What was the color used on the top = (wearing) surface of these cars? Some shade of light gray? Also, were = the wooden skids that straddled the fifth wheel painted this gray color = as well? Thanks in advance! ...now off to run my 1965 TT-1 headed by 3 GP-35's! Ted ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] Queen Mary Pix Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 07:15:08 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Listers, I've been trying to find some pictures of the Queen Mary in th 1950's. So far all i've found are ones from the 1960's. I'm trying to see if the letterboard ever had Pennsylvania on it. 1960's pictures show it had two keystones on either end, with standard dulux striping, and its name "Queen Mary" centered on the car. I'm planning on modeling the car based on its 1950's appearance. Thanks for any help. Best Regards, John York, PA Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Western Maryland, and Maryland & Pennsylvania. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Subject: RE: [PRR] Queen Mary Pix Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 07:44:52 -0600 Message-ID: <2261A19CD8CAD8449EFD62CAA311A748D12806@EXCHANGE.herzogcompanies.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] Queen Mary Pix thread-index: AcUf7GeXny9eZbNES1KwfvT//irdegACoqYg From: "Bill Volkmer" To: "John Frantz" Cc: Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net When I was at Penn Coach Yard from April 1961 to April 1962 the QM had the standard Pennsylvania lettering. It was repainted sometime around the middle of 1963, probably in time for the Army Navy Game, about the only place it was ever used after 1960 or so. WDV -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of John Frantz Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 7:15 AM To: PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Queen Mary Pix Listers, I've been trying to find some pictures of the Queen Mary=20 in th 1950's. So far all i've found are ones from the=20 1960's. I'm trying to see if the letterboard ever had=20 Pennsylvania on it. 1960's pictures show it had two=20 keystones on either end, with standard dulux striping, and=20 its name "Queen Mary" centered on the car. I'm planning on=20 modeling the car based on its 1950's appearance. Thanks for any help. Best Regards, John York, PA Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Western Maryland,=20 and Maryland & Pennsylvania. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Queen Mary Pix Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 09:24:51 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Bill, Thanks. My dad has a poster size picture on the wall of a Stockholders Special being pushed into the new warehouse facilities in York, PA of McCrory Stores in 1963. Although consisting of about 5 Budd coaches, the QM was on the rear end. I can check the exact date when I get home. The paint scheme was after the re-paint. Regards, John "Bill Volkmer" wrote: > When I was at Penn Coach Yard from April 1961 to April >1962 the QM had > the standard Pennsylvania lettering. It was repainted >sometime around > the middle of 1963, probably in time for the Army Navy >Game, about the > only place it was ever used after 1960 or so. > > WDV ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Subject: RE: [PRR] Trailer Train question Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 08:26:08 -0600 Message-ID: <2261A19CD8CAD8449EFD62CAA311A748D1281B@EXCHANGE.herzogcompanies.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] Trailer Train question thread-index: AcUfmuMQEgVhPLLpTX+YBfRoUJesOAAYfZJw From: "Bill Volkmer" To: "Ted Andrews" , "PRR Talk" Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Truc Train was started by PRR. JP Newell was VP PRR and Pres. Truc Train. So this is NOT off topic. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Ted Andrews Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 9:53 PM To: PRR Talk Subject: [PRR] Trailer Train question Listers: While this is not strictly on PRR subject matter, the Pennsy did haul allot of these cars in their Truc Trains. Does anyone make decals for Trailer Train flat cars for the mid-60's era? Specifically, I am looking the those decals used on 85', 86', and 89' long flat cars that were painted boxcar red. I know that Champ made some (part no. HC-296) but these are few and far between. One other question on these cars. What was the color used on the top (wearing) surface of these cars? Some shade of light gray? Also, were the wooden skids that straddled the fifth wheel painted this gray color as well? Thanks in advance! ...now off to run my 1965 TT-1 headed by 3 GP-35's! Ted ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: "PRR Talk" , "Ted Andrews" From: Jerry Britton Subject: Re: [PRR] Trailer Train question Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 09:53:07 -0500 To: "Bill Volkmer" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 3, 2005, at 9:26 AM, Bill Volkmer wrote: > Truc Train was started by PRR. JP Newell was VP PRR and Pres. Truc > Train. So this is NOT off topic. Some time ago I started a "Overview of Truc Train" on Keystone Crossings... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/freightops/tructrain_overview.ws4d A formal announcement will be made at the PRRT&HS annual meeting in May that will give cause for prospective N scale TrucTrain modelers to be happy! ;-) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Trailer Train question Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:01:17 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Ted, Microscale makes appropriate decals for the boxcar red cars. http://www.microscale.com/decals/HO_scale/87552.jpg These also cover the TTX reporting that were used on F30d's. Regards, John > -----Original Message----- >From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On >Behalf Of Ted > Andrews > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 9:53 PM > To: PRR Talk > Subject: [PRR] Trailer Train question > > Listers: > > While this is not strictly on PRR subject matter, the >Pennsy did haul > allot of these cars in their Truc Trains. Does anyone >make decals for > Trailer Train flat cars for the mid-60's era? >Specifically, I am looking > the those decals used on 85', 86', and 89' long flat >cars that were > painted boxcar red. I know that Champ made some (part >no. HC-296) but > these are few and far between. > > One other question on these cars. What was the color >used on the top > (wearing) surface of these cars? Some shade of light >gray? Also, were > the wooden skids that straddled the fifth wheel painted >this gray color > as well? > > Thanks in advance! > > ...now off to run my 1965 TT-1 headed by 3 GP-35's! > > Ted > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit >http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit >http://lists.dsop.com. > York, PA Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Western Maryland, and Maryland & Pennsylvania. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Power usage Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 17:46:35 +0000 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net As I understand engine usage the motors were assigned by the Philadelphia power director. Who determined where the steam and diesels were used? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Subject: RE: [PRR] Power usage Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 12:38:34 -0600 Message-ID: <2261A19CD8CAD8449EFD62CAA311A748D12844@EXCHANGE.herzogcompanies.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] Power usage thread-index: AcUgGtiFVcujJyOoRuK5n7n5alp3dgABGfeA From: "Bill Volkmer" To: , "PRR-Talk" Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net There was a diesel bureau in Philadelphia that assigned power to the trains systemwide. They had to keep track of the "due" dates for Monthly inspections and had to make sure, for example, that a GP9 making a turn in Chicago and due for MI in Enola the next day, was not dispatched to Logansport. The power bureau also had to look ahead at the anticipated tonnage in a particular direction which accounted for the need to frequently operate lite engine moves in the electrified territory. I believe that the steam locos were all assigned to a particular division and there was no opportunity for them to stray more than one division point away from their assigned maintenance base. Thus a locomotive at, say, Enola that was assigned to East Altoona, would not be assigned to a train going to Buffalo. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of ndbprr@att.net Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 12:47 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Power usage As I understand engine usage the motors were assigned by the Philadelphia power director. Who determined where the steam and diesels were used? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Bethlehem Car Works PRR heavyweight Parlor car Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 14:14:31 -0500 From: STEPHEN HOXIE [mailto:stevehprr@cox.net] Subject: Re: [PRR] Bethlehem Car Works PRR heavyweight Parlor car From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Bethlehem Car Works PRR heavyweight Parlor car From: "John Peters" Subject: Re: [PRR] Power usage Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 15:15:32 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net The power bureau I remember also took care of motors as well as diesel and covered the entire Eastern Region pass and Freight (1970's). In the '50s and before, Jake Grosmick handled all P-RSL and Altantic Div. from 22 Federal St. Camden and was called "power clerk". I remember the Philly operation was on the 4th floor west side 30th st. and had a large board with magnetic tags for each locomotive and a general layout of assignments and yards............... not to be confused with "power director", another office in charge of the big catenery board ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Volkmer" To: ; "PRR-Talk" Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 1:38 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] Power usage There was a diesel bureau in Philadelphia that assigned power to the trains systemwide. They had to keep track of the "due" dates for Monthly inspections and had to make sure, for example, that a GP9 making a turn in Chicago and due for MI in Enola the next day, was not dispatched to Logansport. The power bureau also had to look ahead at the anticipated tonnage in a particular direction which accounted for the need to frequently operate lite engine moves in the electrified territory. I believe that the steam locos were all assigned to a particular division and there was no opportunity for them to stray more than one division point away from their assigned maintenance base. Thus a locomotive at, say, Enola that was assigned to East Altoona, would not be assigned to a train going to Buffalo. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of ndbprr@att.net Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 12:47 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Power usage As I understand engine usage the motors were assigned by the Philadelphia power director. Who determined where the steam and diesels were used? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Subject: RE: [PRR] Power usage Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 14:35:31 -0600 Message-ID: <2261A19CD8CAD8449EFD62CAA311A748D12864@EXCHANGE.herzogcompanies.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] Power usage thread-index: AcUgLcpGkvQEKhdhS16CQHj2aupd+AAAl6Fg From: "Bill Volkmer" To: "John Peters" , , "PRR-Talk" Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Tom Flanagan, (deceased) was one of the railfans who worked that Bureau. He had an apartment across the street from #6 Penn Center and rode two elevators to and from work. His boss was R.E. Pinkham who later went over to PATCO. -----Original Message----- From: John Peters [mailto:boomerjdpeters@snip.net]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 3:16 PM To: Bill Volkmer; ndbprr@att.net; PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] Power usage The power bureau I remember also took care of motors as well as diesel and=20 covered the entire Eastern Region pass and Freight (1970's). In the '50s and=20 before, Jake Grosmick handled all P-RSL and Altantic Div. from 22 Federal=20 St. Camden and was called "power clerk". I remember the Philly operation was on the 4th floor west side 30th st. and=20 had a large board with magnetic tags for each locomotive and a general=20 layout of assignments and yards............... not to be confused with "power director", another office in charge of the=20 big catenery board ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Bill Volkmer" To: ; "PRR-Talk" Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 1:38 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] Power usage There was a diesel bureau in Philadelphia that assigned power to the trains systemwide. They had to keep track of the "due" dates for Monthly inspections and had to make sure, for example, that a GP9 making a turn in Chicago and due for MI in Enola the next day, was not dispatched to Logansport. The power bureau also had to look ahead at the anticipated tonnage in a particular direction which accounted for the need to frequently operate lite engine moves in the electrified territory. I believe that the steam locos were all assigned to a particular division and there was no opportunity for them to stray more than one division point away from their assigned maintenance base. Thus a locomotive at, say, Enola that was assigned to East Altoona, would not be assigned to a train going to Buffalo. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of ndbprr@att.net Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 12:47 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Power usage As I understand engine usage the motors were assigned by the Philadelphia power director. Who determined where the steam and diesels were used? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 15:37:15 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Power usage - Side Issue X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 46 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net In a message dated 3/3/05 6:41:52 PM, bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com writes: > They had to keep track of the "due" dates for Monthly >inspections ************ Long after the departure of steam, these were still called "boiler washes." In fact, the annual physical that many Pennsy executives had to take were called "boiler washes." Is the term "boiler wash" still used today to mean personal physical examination? Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Subject: [PRR] Annual Boiler Washes (non-locomotive type) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 14:49:35 -0600 Message-ID: <2261A19CD8CAD8449EFD62CAA311A748D12869@EXCHANGE.herzogcompanies.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Annual Boiler Washes (non-locomotive type) thread-index: AcUgMM4+72takqeORHK62opP7PAXDgAAEVpg From: "Bill Volkmer" To: , , Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Long after the departure of steam, these were still called "boiler washes."=20 In fact, the annual physical that many Pennsy executives had to take were=20 called "boiler washes." Is the term "boiler wash" still used today to mean personal physical=20 examination? OK Trivia Buffs, ARE YOU READY FOR ANOTHER bunch of useless PRR trivia? Here goes: The reason that the PRR executives referred to their annual physical exams as "boiler washes" was because everyone over the age of 40 was required to submit themselves to a proctoscope examination as part of the physical. Because the instrument that was used in those days resembled a sword with a light on the end of it, (not today's painless tools) the annual boiler wash was the most dreaded day of the year. Every Pennsy executive over the age of 40 could recite the date of his next "boiler wash" as quickly as he could his wife's birthday or his wedding anniversary! (he could also tell you how many days it was to his next boiler wash) That was one of the reasons I, myself, quit at age 32! My peers said it wouldn't be quite so bad if they didn't keep the danged thing in the FREEZER before they shoved it "home." Now aren't you glad you asked? WDV PS: This is NOT a side issue, it is a rear issue. -----Original Message----- From: LAMAassoc@aol.com [mailto:LAMAassoc@aol.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 3:37 PM To: Bill Volkmer; ndbprr@att.net; Prr-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Power usage - Side Issue In a message dated 3/3/05 6:41:52 PM, bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com writes: > They had to keep track of the "due" dates for Monthly >inspections=20 ************ Long after the departure of steam, these were still called "boiler washes."=20 In fact, the annual physical that many Pennsy executives had to take were=20 called "boiler washes." Is the term "boiler wash" still used today to mean personal physical=20 examination? Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Peters" Subject: Re: [PRR] Power usage Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 15:51:18 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Roger that, another railfan, Larry Pulk (sp), worked in the same department middle trick but he was at 30th St. and that board was manned 24/7. boomer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Volkmer" To: "John Peters" ; ; "PRR-Talk" Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 3:35 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] Power usage Tom Flanagan, (deceased) was one of the railfans who worked that Bureau. He had an apartment across the street from #6 Penn Center and rode two elevators to and from work. His boss was R.E. Pinkham who later went over to PATCO. -----Original Message----- From: John Peters [mailto:boomerjdpeters@snip.net] Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 3:16 PM To: Bill Volkmer; ndbprr@att.net; PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] Power usage The power bureau I remember also took care of motors as well as diesel and covered the entire Eastern Region pass and Freight (1970's). In the '50s and before, Jake Grosmick handled all P-RSL and Altantic Div. from 22 Federal St. Camden and was called "power clerk". I remember the Philly operation was on the 4th floor west side 30th st. and had a large board with magnetic tags for each locomotive and a general layout of assignments and yards............... not to be confused with "power director", another office in charge of the big catenery board ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Volkmer" To: ; "PRR-Talk" Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 1:38 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] Power usage There was a diesel bureau in Philadelphia that assigned power to the trains systemwide. They had to keep track of the "due" dates for Monthly inspections and had to make sure, for example, that a GP9 making a turn in Chicago and due for MI in Enola the next day, was not dispatched to Logansport. The power bureau also had to look ahead at the anticipated tonnage in a particular direction which accounted for the need to frequently operate lite engine moves in the electrified territory. I believe that the steam locos were all assigned to a particular division and there was no opportunity for them to stray more than one division point away from their assigned maintenance base. Thus a locomotive at, say, Enola that was assigned to East Altoona, would not be assigned to a train going to Buffalo. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of ndbprr@att.net Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 12:47 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Power usage As I understand engine usage the motors were assigned by the Philadelphia power director. Who determined where the steam and diesels were used? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Peters" Subject: Re: [PRR] Power usage - Side Issue Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 15:57:49 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Never heard of it in reference to physicals, only locomotives. Also never new officials took physicals......even today they are not subject to random drug tests. FYI When the monthly inspections went from 30 to 92 days we (engine service) lost a lot of work gathering due engines up for inspection............................boomer ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Power usage - Side Issue > > In a message dated 3/3/05 6:41:52 PM, bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com writes: > >> They had to keep track of the "due" dates for Monthly >>inspections > > > ************ > > Long after the departure of steam, these were still called "boiler > washes." > In fact, the annual physical that many Pennsy executives had to take were > called "boiler washes." > > Is the term "boiler wash" still used today to mean personal physical > examination? > > Regards, Marty > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] Bethlehem Car Works PRR Parlor Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 17:25:17 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Chris: I have the kit for "Matchless". I believe this is the parlor car you're referring to. If you give me your address, off list, I'll be glad to copy the instructions and mail them to you. (Some day I'm going to build this kit) Regards, Larry Reynolds ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chany, Christopher" To: "PRR" Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 3:23 PM Subject: [PRR] Bethlehem Car Works PRR Parlor > Listers, > > Anyone have a copy of the instructions for the Bethlehem Car Works PRR > heavyweight Parlor car that uses brass sides? > > Thanks > > Chris Chany > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <35e0f88c492a047bcf60a8d298806aca@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Eastern Car Works Update Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 19:52:18 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net A few weeks ago Eastern Car Works was active in our subject matter. Their status was voiced as "unknown". I had indicated that supply of their product in the wholesale channel had pretty much dried up. Well, after four months of backorders, last week one of my distributors came through with a decent shipment. I all but filled all of my outstanding customer orders. Today I received a significant shipment from another distributor. Now I am caught up and slightly ahead... finally! Yes, ECW has a pulse!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] N Scale GP9b Progress Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 07:19:26 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Listers, For your viewing and modeling pleasure I posted some pictures of my 95% done N scale GP9b model. Things to do after these pictures are shown, is to add spark arrestors, and a single Leslie "Blat" horn. All modifications are noted on the webpage. This is the first of 3 I plan on modeling. http://www.mountvernonshops.com/Models.html Best Regards, John York, PA Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Western Maryland, and Maryland & Pennsylvania. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] N Scale GP9b Progress Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 07:56:16 -0500 From: John Frantz [mailto:johnf2384@suscom.net] Subject: [PRR] N Scale GP9b Progress From: Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/04/05 Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 11:39:28 -0600 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Bill, Was that the purpose for the seperate Middle Div and Pitt Div engine storage tracks in the East Altoona Engine Facility? They were stored there awaiting assignment? Thanks, Ron > Subject: RE: [PRR] Power usage > From: "Bill Volkmer" > Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 12:38:34 -0600 > > There was a diesel bureau in Philadelphia that assigned power to the > trains systemwide. They had to keep track of the "due" dates for Monthly > inspections and had to make sure, for example, that a GP9 making a turn > in Chicago and due for MI in Enola the next day, was not dispatched to > Logansport. > > The power bureau also had to look ahead at the anticipated tonnage in a > particular direction which accounted for the need to frequently operate > lite engine moves in the electrified territory. > > I believe that the steam locos were all assigned to a particular > division and there was no opportunity for them to stray more than one > division point away from their assigned maintenance base. Thus a > locomotive at, say, Enola that was assigned to East Altoona, would not > be assigned to a train going to Buffalo. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Subject: [PRR] RE: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/04/05 Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 12:49:01 -0600 Message-ID: <2261A19CD8CAD8449EFD62CAA311A748D1290F@EXCHANGE.herzogcompanies.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/04/05 thread-index: AcUg4R6TnApPqSCiRgmiX98cu5P5wAACYogw From: "Bill Volkmer" To: , "PRR-Talk" Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net I would assume that is a correct assumption. The J-1s were not allowed east of Altoona. I guess the Bald Eagle trains got Middle Division power but they were all retired by the time I arrived on the scene. -----Original Message----- From: rkweinland@charter.net [mailto:rkweinland@charter.net]=20 Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 12:39 PM To: PRR-Talk Cc: Bill Volkmer Subject: Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/04/05 Bill, Was that the purpose for the seperate Middle Div and Pitt Div engine storage tracks in the East Altoona Engine Facility? They were stored there awaiting assignment? Thanks, Ron > Subject: RE: [PRR] Power usage > From: "Bill Volkmer" > Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 12:38:34 -0600 >=20 > There was a diesel bureau in Philadelphia that assigned power to the > trains systemwide. They had to keep track of the "due" dates for Monthly > inspections and had to make sure, for example, that a GP9 making a turn > in Chicago and due for MI in Enola the next day, was not dispatched to > Logansport. >=20 > The power bureau also had to look ahead at the anticipated tonnage in a > particular direction which accounted for the need to frequently operate > lite engine moves in the electrified territory. >=20 > I believe that the steam locos were all assigned to a particular > division and there was no opportunity for them to stray more than one > division point away from their assigned maintenance base. Thus a > locomotive at, say, Enola that was assigned to East Altoona, would not > be assigned to a train going to Buffalo. >=20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] UPS and the Pennsy Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 19:58:16 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Subject: RE: [PRR] UPS and the Pennsy Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 14:16:30 -0600 Message-ID: <2261A19CD8CAD8449EFD62CAA311A748D1293A@EXCHANGE.herzogcompanies.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] UPS and the Pennsy thread-index: AcUg9l7Ea3eg5fWSRwyxi04DlG+/mgAAIiNw From: "Bill Volkmer" To: "Ted Andrews" , Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net I am not sure UPS even existed in 1968. The "UPS" of the day was REA which did business in Green, not Brown. WDV -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Ted Andrews Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 2:58 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] UPS and the Pennsy Listers: Were UPS trailers ever seen on Pennsy trains? Was UPS using piggyback=20 service before 1968? Thanks! Ted ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: "Ted Andrews" , From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] UPS and the Pennsy Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 15:23:01 -0500 To: "Bill Volkmer" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 4, 2005, at 3:16 PM, Bill Volkmer wrote: > I am not sure UPS even existed in 1968. The "UPS" of the day was REA > which did business in Green, not Brown. That was my first thought also... so I checked the authoritative source... http://www.ups.com/content/corp/about/index.html Founded in 1907!!! I've never seen their trailers in photos of TrucTrains, thought that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Also possible they didn't own the larger trailers -- perhaps owning only local delivery trucks -- and leased generic trailers that travelled by rail. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] UPS and the Pennsy Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 20:42:18 +0000 From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] UPS and the Pennsy Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 21:08:24 +0000 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net A little off subject but I had a friend who worked in long distance moves for North American Van Lines and I asked why they didn't use trains for cross country moves. he said they tried it but the slack action destroyed most of the load and the claims were astornomical. Maybe that is why UPS never went in for it. Now that slack action is minimized it may have changed their thinking. -------------- Original message from Jerry @ Pennsy : -------------- > On Mar 4, 2005, at 3:16 PM, Bill Volkmer wrote: > > > I am not sure UPS even existed in 1968. The "UPS" of the day was REA > > which did business in Green, not Brown. > > That was my first thought also... so I checked the authoritative > source... > > http://www.ups.com/content/corp/about/index.html > > Founded in 1907!!! > > I've never seen their trailers in photos of TrucTrains, thought that > doesn't mean it didn't happen. Also possible they didn't own the larger > trailers -- perhaps owning only local delivery trucks -- and leased > generic trailers that travelled by rail. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jeff Toreki" Subject: RE: [PRR] UPS and the Pennsy Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 15:07:49 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcUg+wCqaVCNnMOkQsOoST6+5B3EIwAAlAzw Message-ID: <1102151772-1653530@dsop.com> Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net I recall reading somewhere that at that time UPS had a contract with EL/N&W for East/West feeder shipments between NY and Chicago, so you probably wouldn't have seen any of their trailers on PRR. Jeff > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Ted Andrews > Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 2:42 PM > To: jerry@pennsyrr.com; bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com > Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] UPS and the Pennsy > > Jerry wrote: > > ..."Also possible they didn't own the larger trailers -- perhaps owning only > local delivery trucks -- and > leased generic trailers that travelled by rail." > > That is what I was suspected too. I just was not sure. > > Ted > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] UPS and the Pennsy Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 16:21:16 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Will, et al., >From my book on the E&P, which hopefully will finally be published one day.. Al "In 1918, the federal government, having already gained control of the railroads through the United States Railroad Administration (USRA), decided to also extend its control over the express business. So, on May 28, 1918, the operating express companies of the day - Adams, American, Southern, Wells-Fargo and the express subsidiaries of the Great Northern, Northern Pacific, and SOO Line were merged into the Consolidated Express Company. This name was short-lived and was changed to the American Railway Express Company (ARE). On June 28, 1918, ARE became the sole express operator on the American railroads. On March 1, 1929 the old USRA contracts with ARE expired and the Railway Express Agency, Inc. (REA), a private company owned cooperatively by the railroads, was formed to take over the business of and acquire the assets of ARE. On August 1, 1938, REA purchased the Southeastern Express Company, which had operated over lines of several southern railroads and was the only other company at that time engaged in the rail express business. REA was designed to attract time sensitive and high value package freight and its traffic moved almost exclusively on solid mail-express trains or as head-end traffic on passenger trains. When passenger began disappearing ca. 1959, REA established its own truck routes as replacements. Its primary competitor was Parcel Post and United Parcel Service but REA accepted larger packages than the post office and also accepted "labeled" commodities such as fireworks, which the post office didn't. REA loaded solid cars from major points to break bulk at other points and performed all of their own transfer service. On local trains they had all of or a portion of a head-end car staffed by a messenger who handled the on and off shipments. REA also operated refrigerator cars in some passenger trains for high priority perishables. However, the railroad handled milk through their baggage operations. In later years they were in the trailer leasing business with reporting marks REAZ. In many small towns that could not support a separate full-time REA staff, the railroad agent also represented the express company. Those agents worked on a commission basis getting ten percent of the gross sale with a few minor exceptions. On the later day E&P this arrangement applied to Wheatland, Jamestown and Linesville. In June 1970 the REA changed its name to REA Express Inc., disassociated itself with the railroads and became involved in the air express business. In 1974 the Civil Aeronautics Board ordered them out of air express operations, which by then accounted for two-thirds of its business. REA Express filed for Chapter 11 on February 18, 1975, and was liquidated on November 11, 1975." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 16:37:18 -0500 Subject: RE: [PRR] UPS and the Pennsy From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] UPS and the Pennsy Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 16:34:36 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net List, UPS was United Parcel Service and initially was the delivery service used by department stores to deliver to customer's homes. Many of you are probably too young to remember when K-Mart and Wal-Mart did not exist. Many grocery stores delivered your groceries not to the car, but to your house, free. Same with department stores. I grew up on Long Island, and if you shopped in Manhattan you had to pay 3 percent sales tax, unless you had the department store deliver to your house on Long Island (by UPS), in which case the sales tax did not apply. When the ICC ruled that REA could not engage in transportation without using railroads for at least part of the haul, UPS applied for and received authority to transport parcels under 70 lbs. nationally. Amtrak absolutely killed REA, as its service was depended on passenger trains. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Enser" To: Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 4:06 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] UPS and the Pennsy > > Can anyone give me a timeline of the REA. When did it actually disappear? > Did it actually "become" UPS or did UPS come after REA was already gone? > Everything I have seen says that REA just sort of "faded" away and UPS > came on the scene after that > > Are there any good books that covers the REA? > > Thanks > > Will in Buffalo > > > On Fri, 4 Mar 2005, Bill Volkmer wrote: > >> I am not sure UPS even existed in 1968. The "UPS" of the day was REA >> which did business in Green, not Brown. >> >> WDV >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Ted >> Andrews >> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 2:58 PM >> To: prr-talk@dsop.com >> Subject: [PRR] UPS and the Pennsy >> >> Listers: >> >> Were UPS trailers ever seen on Pennsy trains? Was UPS using piggyback >> service before 1968? >> >> Thanks! >> >> Ted >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 16:56:03 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] UPS and the Pennsy X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net My first job after high school back in 1967 was in a local speed shop in Berwyn Pa. We used UPS daily to send mail order items out all over the U.S. They did have the brown delivery vans back then but have no recollection of any over the road trucks or rail use. ------------------Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 16:56:36 -0500 (EST) From: Will Enser Subject: RE: [PRR] UPS and the Pennsy From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] UPS and the Pennsy Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 17:39:52 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <142.40d5332c.2f5a3373@aol.com> X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.3.0, Antispam-Data: 2005.3.4.14 X-PerlMx-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIII, Probability=7%, Report='__CT 0, __CTE 0, __CTYPE_CHARSET_QUOTED 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __HAS_MSMAIL_PRI 0, __HAS_X_MAILER 0, __HAS_X_PRIORITY 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __SANE_MSGID 0' Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net UPS started shipping their own trailers on the EL starting sometime around 1970. An EL fan friend mentioned that they used third party trailers over the EL before that but he's not sure of the start date. Rob -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of KEMACPRR@aol.com Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 4:56 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] UPS and the Pennsy My first job after high school back in 1967 was in a local speed shop in Berwyn Pa. We used UPS daily to send mail order items out all over the U.S. They did have the brown delivery vans back then but have no recollection of any over the road trucks or rail use. ------------------Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: k4sb@niia.net Subject: RE: [PRR] UPS and the Pennsy Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 22:51:24 -0000 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net See: http://www=2Eups=2Ecom/content/us/en/about/ UPS has been around nearly 100 years! REA History: http://www=2Etrains=2Ecom/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/003/132swiza=2E= as p Ken Paste both lines > > >---- Original Message ---- >From: alcoman@net=2Ebluemoon=2Enet >To: prr-talk@dsop=2Ecom >Subject: RE: [PRR] UPS and the Pennsy >Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 16:06:03 -0500 (EST) > >> >>Can anyone give me a timeline of the REA=2E When did it actually >disappear=3F=20 >>Did it actually "become" UPS or did UPS come after REA was already >gone=3F=20 >>Everything I have seen says that REA just sort of "faded" away and >UPS=20 >>came on the scene after that >> >>Are there any good books that covers the REA=3F >> >>Thanks >> >>Will in Buffalo >> >> >>On Fri, 4 Mar 2005, Bill Volkmer wrote: >> >>> I am not sure UPS even existed in 1968=2E The "UPS" of the day was >REA >>> which did business in Green, not Brown=2E >>> >>> WDV >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: PRR-Talk@dsop=2Ecom [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop=2Ecom] On Behalf Of >Ted >>> Andrews >>> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 2:58 PM >>> To: prr-talk@dsop=2Ecom >>> Subject: [PRR] UPS and the Pennsy >>> >>> Listers: >>> >>> Were UPS trailers ever seen on Pennsy trains=3F Was UPS using >piggyback >>> service before 1968=3F >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Ted >>> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------- >--- >>For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists=2Edsop=2Ecom=2E= >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 22:00:26 EST Subject: RE: [PRR] UPS and the Pennsy X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Just for the record, United Parcel Service began in 1907 in Seattle, WA as a messenger service. It later expanded to parcels serving the commercial sector (retailers). In 1952 UPS expanded into the common carrier service to tap both the commercial and private sectors. 1975 was the company's "Hallmark Year" when it was granted permission for interstate service. That year was when "Brown" became a familiar coast-to-coast sight on the nations highways. Prior to that, interstate parcels were primarily in the hands of contract cartage companies and could change carriers several times to get to the final destination. They also tried air parcel service in 1929 using commercial carriers but the Depression killed the service the same year. In 1952 or 1954 (cob webs here), the air parcel service was again instituted again using commercial carriers for it parcels. In 1981 UPS bought their first plane. There were UPS deliver trucks but where there UPS semis on the highways before 1975? There were but only in intrastate service. Will have to do some serious research here to pin down the dates UPS semi vans hit the rails. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 20:14:42 -0700 From: Sandra & Peter Dawes Subject: Fw: [PRR] UPS and the Pennsy X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Sandra & Peter Dawes=20 To: Rob Schoenberg=20 Sent: March 4, 2005 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] UPS and the Pennsy Interesting post, Rob, regarding the E-L and its involvement with UPS. Your posts, and the earlier ones by Greg and Al on the ARE Co., rang a = bell. I have the August 1928 Official Guide of the Railways, and there = is this note at the bottom of page 141 in the Eire section: AMERICAN RAILWAY EXPRESS COMPANY The express package service of the Erie Railroad is handled by the = American Railway Express Company. In addition to the express cars on = regular passenger trains, the Eire operates American Railway Express = Trains 13 and 14, as below: Train 13 leaves Jersey City, "Daylight Saving" time, 11 30 p.m. ... = [lists intermediate points]... arrives Chicago 1 30 a.m. Central time. = Train 14 leaves Chicago, Central time, 12 35 p.m. ... [lists = intermediate points] ... arrives Jersey City 12 30 a.m., "Daylight = Saving" time. There is no indication of frequency, so these trains probably ran daily. = Apparently, Jersey City was on "Daylight Saving" time; all the other = places on Standard time, and this note, as well as the actual Eire = tables in this Guide, reflects this. Does anyone recall ever seeing the schedules of other dedicated parcel = express trains (meaning no passengers handled) mentioned in the Guide, = or in public timetables? Peter Dawes=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Rob Schoenberg=20 To: KEMACPRR@aol.com ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: March 4, 2005 3:39 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] UPS and the Pennsy UPS started shipping their own trailers on the EL starting sometime = around 1970. An EL fan friend mentioned that they used third party trailers = over the EL before that but he's not sure of the start date. Rob -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of KEMACPRR@aol.com Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 4:56 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] UPS and the Pennsy My first job after high school back in 1967 was in a local speed shop = in Berwyn Pa. We used UPS daily to send mail order items out all over the = U.S. They did have the brown delivery vans back then but have no recollection of = any over the road trucks or rail use. ------------------Ken McCorry = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 22:59:10 EST Subject: [PRR] REA - and the Pennsy X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net REA Timeline: In 1929 sixty-nine railroads purchased American Railway Express Co. then organized the Railway Express Agency on March 1, 1929. Only the Southern Railway's Southeastern Express Co. remained independent until 1938 when it was absorbed by REA. REA declared bankruptcy Feb. 1, 1975 and was liquidated the same year. There were originally one thousand shares of stock divided amongst the owning railroads on a revenue generating basis. The PRR received over one hundred of these shares. Also, none owner railroads were allowed to participate via routing agreements. RAILWAY EXPRESS An Overview by Victor S. Roseman is an excellent book on the REA. Copyrighted 1992 by Rocky Mountain Publishing, Inc. ISBN 0-9612692-5-1 There supposedly is a "complete" book on the REA being written by a gentlemen in North (or is it South) Carolina, but have heard nothing of this book's progress for a few years. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2005 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 23:59:39 -0800 (PST) From: kenneth broomfield Subject: [PRR] Steam Engine Couplers and other things. Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 00:10:41 -0800 (PST) From: kenneth broomfield Subject: RE: [PRR] UPS and the Pennsy From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 01:30:07 GMT Subject: [PRR] REA From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 01:38:18 GMT Subject: [PRR] UPS From: Prr1187@aol.com Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 12:17:49 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] diner and kitchen car X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net The two PRR cars: full length diner kitchen/dormitory are available in plastic sides from Laser Horizons to be used with core kits like those from Train Station Products and Eastern Car Works. Regards, Dennis Sautters PRRT&HS 1974 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 12:26:03 EST Subject: [PRR] ARE and REA X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net In a message dated 3/5/2005 1:11:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: Subject: REA - and the Pennsy From: Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 22:59:10 EST REA Timeline: In 1929 sixty-nine railroads purchased American Railway Express Co. then organized the Railway Express Agency on March 1, 1929. Only the Southern Railway's Southeastern Express Co. remained independent until 1938 when it was absorbed by REA. REA declared bankruptcy Feb. 1, 1975 and was liquidated the same year. ARE had absorbed all the other express companies (e.g. Adams on the Pennsy) by the Twenties. With motor carrier competition and the Post Office's parcel post operations, ARE's margins were being squeezed. The American Railway Express Company knew before 1929 that the profit was exiting the railroad express business. Thus, they did what good businessmen do -- they sold Railway Express Agency off to the "sixty-nine suckers," changed the company name to American Express, and expanded their financial services, such as travelers' checks. Being married to the passenger train, once Amtrak arrived, Railway Express was in big trouble. REA's been gone for 30 years, but American Express is still pelting me with ads for their @#$$#$# card! I count this 1929 sale and the highly advantageous 1869 lease of the Little Miami Railroad to the supposedly intelligent Pennsy interests as two of the greatest con games in railroad history... The PRR was led by smart operators. But even they could be had from time to time... Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lee French" Subject: [PRR] Buttonwood Train Yard Wilkes Barre Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 17:17:05 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Looking for anyone with pictures or who may have worked/visited the PRR = Buttonwood yard. My relative John Curran worked there for many years = with the PRR, and would be interested in corresponding with anyone who = worked there during that same time frame. Also, the Keystone Crossing site yard diagrams show the ice = house/station near the north western end of the yard, is this where the = stock pens were also located? I believe so, but would like to confirm. Tks for any help it. Lyinel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 12:26:03 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] ARE and REA In a message dated 3/5/2005 1:11:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: Subject: REA - and the Pennsy From: Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 22:59:10 EST REA Timeline: In 1929 sixty-nine railroads purchased American Railway Express Co. then organized the Railway Express Agency on March 1, 1929. Only the Southern Railway's Southeastern Express Co. remained independent until 1938 when it was absorbed by REA. REA declared bankruptcy Feb. 1, 1975 and was liquidated the same year. ARE had absorbed all the other express companies (e.g. Adams on the Pennsy) by the Twenties. With motor carrier competition and the Post Office's parcel post operations, ARE's margins were being squeezed. The American Railway Express Company knew before 1929 that the profit was exiting the railroad express business. Thus, they did what good businessmen do -- they sold Railway Express Agency off to the "sixty-nine suckers," changed the company name to American Express, and expanded their financial services, such as travelers' checks. Being married to the passenger train, once Amtrak arrived, Railway Express was in big trouble. REA's been gone for 30 years, but American Express is still pelting me with ads for their @#$$#$# card! I count this 1929 sale and the highly advantageous 1869 lease of the Little Miami Railroad to the supposedly intelligent Pennsy interests as two of the greatest con games in railroad history... The PRR was led by smart operators. But even they could be had from time to time... Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/EpW3eD/3MnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Hom" Subject: [PRR] The Keystone Modeler - March 2005 Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 18:31:33 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net The March 2005 issue of The Keystone Modeler is available at http://www.prrths.com/Keystone%20Modeler/TKM_Images/Keystone_Modeler_NO20_fi les/TKM%20No.%2020%2003-05%20PDF.pdf Articles of interest include: - Modeling Activities Planned for the 2005 Annual Meeting - Pennsylvania Railroad Class K7A Stock Cars - Broadway Limited Imports K7A Review - Modifying the Broadway Limited Imports K7A - Modeling the Pennsylvania Railroad’s Gondola Fleet Part 13 - G33’s - Locomotive and Tender Electric Marker Lamps Part 2 - Clawfoot Arrangement Drawings for Locomotives - 37th Annual Meeting Program and Registration Forms Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 09:06:48 +0000 From: "John H. Wright" Subject: [PRR] USA 2004 .... pics uploaded Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Just uploaded a big pile of photos from last year's trip to the USA .... Ohio, Indiana, Michigan & Ontario. Subjects include: PRRTHS meeting at Cincinnati : numerous shots including the Railroad Museum where 'they' left me behind for 5 hours. A day at Fostoria, OH Railroad Museums ... Whitewater Valley, Elkhart, Nobelsville Layouts .... Jerry Macri, Doug Tagshold, the Blissfield MRC Short Line .... the Connellsville & Newcastle plus its huge collection of old diesels awaiting repair. Dayton USAF museum Lima NKP display Sarnia yard, Ontario and bits of miscellaneous stuff Go to: http://www.xclent.freeuk.com and click on the 'Scrapbook' button Have fun -- Regards, John H. Wright Washington, England ( Home of the Lucky Wax Dog in a Basket ) Web Site: http://www.xclent.freeuk.con Visit Andy Reichert's Proto 87 Stores: http://www.proto87stores.com -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.1 - Release Date: 27/02/2005 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <7eeeb961fb54d94df2a0d82ef745217c@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Annual Meeting Layout Tours Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 06:34:02 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net The March issue of "The Keystone Modeler" contains information about the Society's annual meeting in May. There is some inaccurate, though not bad, information about the layout tours. It indicates that on Sunday tours run from "Noon to 3 p.m." In fact, tours run from noon through 5 p.m. Most are noon through 4 p.m., but as you get farther from Camp Hill, there are a few that will be open later. This will allow a "logical plan of attack" on the part of the traveller to get in as many layouts as possible on their way home. There is also a comment about the registration for the "sign up required" operating sessions on Saturday. In fact, the layouts involved are still working out the details, so the information in the TKM is premature. The layout tour information will be available online by mid-April so you can preview the schedule and the layouts, many of which have excellent web sites. All for now... ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 12:16:58 GMT Subject: [PRR] Little Miami RR From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 12:17:12 GMT Subject: [PRR] Little Miami RR Cc: Conrail-Talk LIST From: Jerry Britton Subject: [PRR] Train Show in Harrisburg This Saturday (3/12/05) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 07:48:36 -0500 To: PRR-Talk LIST X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net For those of you in the greater Harrisburg (Pa.) area, the Harrisburg Chapter of the National Railway Historical Society (NRHS) sponsors its 19th Annual Railroad Show and Collectors Market. The show runs 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. at the I.W. Abel Unnion Hall (Steelworkers Union) at 200 Gibson Street, Steelton, PA 17113. It's one mile south of I-83 in Harrisburg; use exit 44B, south on 19th Street. Donation at door: $4. Children under 12: Free. There will be railroad/railroadiana vendors, on-site layouts, movies, and workshops and seminars. (This is no Timonium, but if you are close and you want to do "the train thing" it's not a bad place to be!) I'll be there, with two tables, under the "PENNSYRR.COM" sign. Stop by and say hello! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRRT&HS Annual Meeting Layout Tours Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 08:49:48 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <7eeeb961fb54d94df2a0d82ef745217c@pennsyrr.com> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Re: There is some inaccurate, though not bad, information about the layout tours. Thanx for the layout update. That's one of the reasons the schedule sez - "Schedule and locations subject to change." Unfortunately, we also now have one presenter that cannot show up but his program will still go on. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <2b8d4711df293de1fe20e41536c53667@vetmed.auburn.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR talk From: Bruce Smith Subject: [PRR] Ashtabula, 1941 Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 08:01:57 -0600 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Morning Folks, Tim O'Connner posted this link to the STMFC list. I couldn't pass it up! http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P02410.jpg We were talking about variety in PRR hopper trains... There is an H22 along with some H21As and a variety of gons in he empties yard. In the loads yard you can see a GLC/GLCA, H21A, GLA (?), and GS and GR series gons. Also, look at the weathering variations, from the nearly new paint on the GLC to some pretty beat cars! BTW, the search engine for this collection is at: http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/cushman/search/index.jsp Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-Talk LIST From: Jerry Britton Subject: [PRR] Annual Meeting Op Sessions Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 09:40:13 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net As you know, the program and registration materials for the PRRT&HS annual meeting have been released. I'm organizing the layout tours and we should have the layout tour guide available online in about four weeks for your planning purposes. It will be printed for attendees. We have three layouts open for Friday night (7 - 9) and nine open for Sunday afternoon (noon - 5). I'm please to say that we are also trying something new, with the blessing of the BoD... operating sessions on Saturday afternoon! The op sessions are planned to allow the novice to experience what an op session involves... wearing a headset (or using telephones), using a throttle, and performing a task (such as running a through train or switching cars using car cards). Regular crew on the respective layouts will mentor the participants. Because the mentor/participant arrangement will result in a lot of bodies in a basement, these op sessions will require sign-ups in advance, and only those that sign-up will be permitted to attend. There will be no option for spectators. The op sessions will be Saturday afternoon and will last for several hours. If you attend an op session, you will be missing the opportunity to attend the following events back at the annual meeting venue... 1:00-3:00 The PRR in Renovo - Greg Stone 3:15-5:00 Modeling Committee Forum - Elden Gatwood Op sessions would be over by late afternoon, so there would be no conflict with the banquet. The exact sign-up process is still being worked out, but the layouts involved have asked me to gauge interest. If you would be interested in participating, please e-mail me privately. And note that this DOES NOT denote signing up! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: [PRR] A prototype for everything Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 10:23:42 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Note in the following jpeg the PRR box car on the left. It's a single door car with the door on the "wrong side"! Can anyone identify this car and its history? http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P02405.jpg regards, Andy Miller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: "'PRR-Talk'" , From: Jerry Britton Subject: Re: [PRR] A prototype for everything Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 10:35:57 -0500 To: "Andy Miller" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 7, 2005, at 10:23 AM, Andy Miller wrote: > Note in the following jpeg the PRR box car on the left. It's a single > door > car with the door on the "wrong side"! Can anyone identify this car > and its > history? > > http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P02405.jpg > I don't think the door is backwards... I think the negative is!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] A prototype for everything Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 15:39:03 +0000 From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] A prototype for everything Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 15:43:01 +0000 Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 08:43:18 -0800 From: Ed Workman Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/06/05 Cc: PRR talk From: Bill Subject: Re: [PRR] Ashtabula, 1941 Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 17:19:16 -0500 To: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 7, 2005, at 9:01 AM, Bruce Smith wrote: > Morning Folks, > > Tim O'Connner posted this link to the STMFC list. I couldn't pass it > up! > http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P02410.jpg > > We were talking about variety in PRR hopper trains... There is an H22 > along with some H21As and a variety of gons in he empties yard. In > the loads yard you can see a GLC/GLCA, H21A, GLA (?), and GS and GR > series gons. > > Also, look at the weathering variations, from the nearly new paint on > the GLC to some pretty beat cars! > > BTW, the search engine for this collection is at: > http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/cushman/search/index.jsp > > Regards > Bruce > Bruce, Thanks a lot. Great stuff to come home to after a long day at work. Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 18:32:51 -0500 From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Subject: [PRR] Inn Series Conversions to P85L Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Listers, Does anybody have a list of the car numbers assigned to the P85L's after they were converted from the "Inn" series cars? Even some of them would help if the list is not complete. Thanks for any help offered. Regards, Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 18:32:51 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Inn Series Conversions to P85L Listers, Does anybody have a list of the car numbers assigned to the P85L's after they were converted from the "Inn" series cars? Even some of them would help if the list is not complete. Thanks for any help offered. Regards, Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Tcy2bD/SOnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 20:03:12 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net In the March releases from InterMountain, posted today, are two structure kits for the Pennsylvania Railroad. One is called "Lineside Structures" and the other is "Interlocking Cabin". Unfortunately, IM has not detailed "what" they are exactly. I was asked for an opinion several months ago about several options they were considering, based on drawings in the Jeff Serb books, but I am as yet unaware of what their final selections were. Now that the announcement is public, anyone out there "in the know"? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] InterMountain P85b's -- Second Run Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 20:04:36 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Forgot to mention in my last post... Among InterMountain's March releases is the second run of the HO scale P85b's in PENNSYLVANIA scheme... in another 12 road numbers. They'll arrive in about three weeks. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <90df7de0b1c701bc7e74e31b43fac216@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] NMRA Calendar / PRR / 2007 Annual Meeting Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 20:08:47 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Today, for the first time, I was looking ahead on the 2005 NMRA calendar. I was amazed to discover that there were PRR layout photos for 3 of the 12 months! There was also an additional photo of PRR. I was further amazed to see that three pics came from two layouts and that the photo credit for all three was from Greensburg, Pa. So my next speculation is, since the 2007 annual meeting is in Greensburg, does the Pittsburgh Chapter know of these guys in order to arrange layout tours with them? A fourth picture was Dave Johnson's layout out in Solon, Oh. Hmmm, close enough to the annual meeting for a road trip? And then there's Bob McKay, in DuBois, in N scale... now how far away is that from Greensburg? There I go, planning waaaay to far ahead again! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 21:46:19 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Well Jerry, can you share with us the options that they were = considering? ....curious in Indiana (Lines West.....hint hint...) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jerry @ Pennsy=20 To: PRR-talk=20 Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 8:03 PM Subject: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures In the March releases from InterMountain, posted today, are two=20 structure kits for the Pennsylvania Railroad. One is called "Lineside=20 Structures" and the other is "Interlocking Cabin". Unfortunately, IM has not detailed "what" they are exactly. I was = asked=20 for an opinion several months ago about several options they were=20 considering, based on drawings in the Jeff Serb books, but I am as yet = unaware of what their final selections were. Now that the announcement is public, anyone out there "in the know"? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS = jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit = http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: "PRR-talk" From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 21:27:10 -0500 To: "Ted Andrews" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 7, 2005, at 9:46 PM, Ted Andrews wrote: > Well Jerry, can you share with us the options that they were=20 > considering? > =A0 > .....curious in Indiana (Lines West.....hint hint...) Until I hear from IM, I'd rather not. There's always the chance that=20 there is yet another release(s) not alluded to today. I wouldn't want=20 to tip their hand. We did discuss several buildings and groups of=20 buildings. I will say that there weren't any structures that were=20 unique to Lines West. On the other hand, I will give you a hint... think "crescent moon"! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Buttonwood Train Yard Wilkes Barre Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 00:16:27 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 10:45:55 +0100 From: "peter@bagge.se" Subject: [PRR] GG1 electrical diagram Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Can I find a web with the electrical circuit diagram for the GG1? /Emil ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Tom Kane Subject: RE: [PRR] Inn Series Conversions to P85L Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 09:56:11 -0800 From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Edmond Subject: [PRR] Inn Series Conversions to P85L From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 13:42:49 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net FYI - the Society Modeling Committee has been working with IM on this project. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: 'PRR-talk' From: Jerry Britton Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 13:55:19 -0500 To: "Al Buchan" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 8, 2005, at 1:42 PM, Al Buchan wrote: > FYI - the Society Modeling Committee has been working with IM on this > project. Albeit not alone! Do you know what the final selections were? I know some of the initial considerations presented to me were 1880's buildings that were largely replaced by the 1920's. I never followed up with Marty to find out what the final selections were, and he's not been available. You'd think they'd be more likely to sell more if they'd be more descriptive than "Pennsylvania Lineside Structures" and "Pennsylvania Interlocking Cabin". What does that really tell you? The good news is that whatever they are, they were actually pulled from PRR plans... a major step forward! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 14:31:09 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Jerry asked: Do you know what the final selections were? I don't know what their final selection is, and if we did know we would not divulge it before they announce it. Trust is a key element between manufacturers and the Society's Modeling Committee, we are working with several manufacturers right now on products that have not been announced and we will not announce or even acknowledge working on them until they are made public by the manufacturer.. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 19:32:43 +0000 Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 14:42:03 -0500 From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Jerry & Al, For what it is worth my contact has told me that the PRR structures are a tool house and two watch box as a set vintage unknown and a 1-18 lever interlocking cabin again vintage unknown. I'll see if I can get a time frame for the structures. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jerry Britton Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 14:48:02 -0500 To: 'PRR-talk' X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 8, 2005, at 2:31 PM, Al Buchan wrote: > Jerry asked: Do you know what the final selections were? > > I don't know what their final selection is, and if we did know we would > not divulge it before they announce it. The problem here Al is that they DID announce it... it's on their web site. It has no description. The sales people at IM don't know what it is. The research & development people at IM can't be reached. And the product is to be available for shipment to dealers in 2-3 weeks. So what are dealers supposed to tell prospective customers? Are dealers supposed to order blindly and then risk getting stuck with unsellable product? We know these structures come from PRR plans, but if they are 1880-1920 era structures, they aren't going to sell real well. So what are prospective customers supposed to do? Order blind? Rhetorical question, Al, how many of each do you want? "Pennsylvania Lineside Structures" _____ "Pennsylvania Interlocking Cabin" _____ At the risk of receiving something akin to Athearn blue-box Pennsy dome cars and F units in Tuscan five-stripe, I respectfully submit that THIS DOESN'T WORK! > > Trust is a key element between manufacturers and the Society's Modeling > Committee, we are working with several manufacturers right now on > products that have not been announced and we will not announce or even > acknowledge working on them until they are made public by the > manufacturer.. For the record, here are two PUBLIC links showing the announcement... http://www.intermountain-railway.com/new.html http://www.intermountain-railway.com/ho/hostructures.htm Though I discussed this project with IM many months ago, under non-disclosure, I do not feel that I breeched that trust by posting the above URL's. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jerry Britton Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 14:58:12 -0500 To: 'PRR-talk' X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 8, 2005, at 2:42 PM, SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote: > For what it is worth my contact has told me that the PRR structures > are a tool house and two watch box as a set vintage unknown and a 1-18 > lever interlocking cabin again vintage unknown. I'll see if I can get > a time frame for the structures. > On Mar 8, 2005, at 2:41 PM, Park Varieties wrote: > The illustrations in the dealer sheets I just received have two > offerings; a lineside set which includes a tool house and two watch > boxes. Tool house measurements are given as 2 1/4 x 3" and the watch > boxes 1/2 x 1". The second offering is described as a standard > interlocking tower for 1 to 18 levers and looks like the old AHM > model. Dimensions given are 2 x 2". Maybe the mule will deliver my dealer sheets today. I always get them late. No roads go straight through Etters! The first building discussed must have been swapped for what is now the interlocking tower. I won't say what the former was, cause you might see it later! As for the tower, it will be interesting to see what prototype locations it represents. Tool House plan #59326 was discussed, so that must be it (Sherb book, p. 79). The watch boxes may be plan #59329 or 61980 (plans are on Rob's site). Thanks for the info guys! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com From: Jerry Britton Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 14:59:04 -0500 To: "Ted Andrews" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 8, 2005, at 2:32 PM, Ted Andrews wrote: > "On the other hand, I will give you a hint... think "crescent moon"!" > > > A crescent moon???.....hhmmm.......no......NO. It can't be THAT!!! > The "Crescent Moon" was discussed as an element to fill out an overall offering. I do not know if it is included or not. :-) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jerry Britton Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 15:21:54 -0500 To: 'PRR-talk' X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net > On Mar 8, 2005, at 2:41 PM, Park Varieties wrote: > >> The illustrations in the dealer sheets I just received have two >> offerings; a lineside set which includes a tool house and two watch >> boxes. Tool house measurements are given as 2 1/4 x 3" and the watch >> boxes 1/2 x 1". The second offering is described as a standard >> interlocking tower for 1 to 18 levers and looks like the old AHM >> model. Dimensions given are 2 x 2". Additional info is that the above are laser cut wood parts. Separately applied trim panels facilitate easier painting in two-tone. The tower features a "decorative exposed stairway". Can anyone cite examples of this tower on the prototype? It comes from Pennsy plans, so it is authentic, but were was such a tower in place? For clarification, the "Lineside Set" includes one tool house and two watch boxes. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] Ashtabula, 1941 Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 14:38:18 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] Ashtabula, 1941 Thread-Index: AcUjH2X9oNTThw7KTzCHUyivFx3mXAA/yRAg From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: "Bruce Smith" , "PRR talk" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Mar 2005 20:38:18.0271 (UTC) FILETIME=[C29E72F0:01C5241E] Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Check out the pictures under the keyword "Pennsylvania". Many colored slides of Johnstown, Harrisburg, one picture of a train on the curve, and another of a PRR tug in New York. All circa 1941=20 -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Smith Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 8:02 AM To: PRR talk Subject: [PRR] Ashtabula, 1941 Morning Folks, Tim O'Connner posted this link to the STMFC list. I couldn't pass it up! http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P02410.jpg We were talking about variety in PRR hopper trains... There is an H22 along with some H21As and a variety of gons in he empties yard. In the loads yard you can see a GLC/GLCA, H21A, GLA (?), and GS and GR series gons. Also, look at the weathering variations, from the nearly new paint on the GLC to some pretty beat cars! BTW, the search engine for this collection is at: http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/cushman/search/index.jsp Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Craig Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Ashtabula, 1941 Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 17:34:53 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Nice vintage color pictures from pre-war Pennsy-land, one wonders how accurate the colors are rendered (and how well the film emulsions held up over 60 odd years) - the dreary pall does rather capture the essence of Johnstown, and with a healthy wash of smoke & grime, it rings true, although it does seem to have a touch of that "old Kodachrome bluish tinge" - some of the latest film scanners can extract perhaps a slightly more faithful rendition through the magic of software & a proper light source (currently the cream of the crop for Kodachrome seems to be the very pricey Nikon Coolscan 9000, or the less expensive but slow Minolta Dimage 5400) - anyway, the pictures do raise the question of how things really did look back when the smokestack industries were going full blast - perhaps modern day industrial China mimics the pre-EPA days best. The partially denuded hillsides seem rather common in valleys with heavy industry, and it has changed quite dramatically since the mills have all but disappeared, I'd imagine most of the trees were taken for firewood, and output from the smokestacks did the rest (the hillside across the river from the USS Clairton Works was utterly devoid of foliage as late as the 1970's) - quite a change from the way it looks now. A couple of other PRR pix in that collection, including the Kennerdell Tunnel on the way to Oil City: http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P02317.jpg This looks like a trash dump along Route 56 West of Johnstown, with the mainline directly below and Sang Hollow on the other side of the Conemaugh (below what I am guessing is Route 403): http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P02028.jpg This I think is the old Gautier Works of Bethlehem Steel in the center, the Johnstown incline is at far left, and the mainline is curving away to the right (behind Gautier) towards the Johnstown Station, which is just to the right of dead-center in the picture. http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P02031.jpg I think this is looking towards East Conemaugh, C Tower may be somewhere in there, but I need a bigger monitor to see it: http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P02033.jpg A quick glance at Terraserver makes me think the photographer was standing along Frankstown Road for those two shots Great pix & great inspiration for weathering & modeling. Craig Miller Pittsburgh, PA -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Cadwell, Marvin L Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 3:38 PM To: Bruce Smith; PRR talk Subject: RE: [PRR] Ashtabula, 1941 Check out the pictures under the keyword "Pennsylvania". Many colored slides of Johnstown, Harrisburg, one picture of a train on the curve, and another of a PRR tug in New York. All circa 1941 -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Smith Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 8:02 AM To: PRR talk Subject: [PRR] Ashtabula, 1941 Morning Folks, Tim O'Connner posted this link to the STMFC list. I couldn't pass it up! http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P02410.jpg We were talking about variety in PRR hopper trains... There is an H22 along with some H21As and a variety of gons in he empties yard. In the loads yard you can see a GLC/GLCA, H21A, GLA (?), and GS and GR series gons. Also, look at the weathering variations, from the nearly new paint on the GLC to some pretty beat cars! BTW, the search engine for this collection is at: http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/cushman/search/index.jsp Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 15:02:52 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] A note from the past From: "TCJ Riggs" Subject: Re: [PRR] Ashtabula, 1941 Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 18:52:15 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Craig, I was raised in McKeesport in the 1950s and early 60s, and my Grandfather had to strip the black off of the pine tree needles in order to educate me as to their real color. I called pouring slag in the mill--which we could see miles away at night--our Aurora Borealis. Your comments ring true. Remember what Charles Dickens said upon visiting Pittsburgh shortly after the turn of the 19th century (quoted by Ken Kobus and Jack Consoli in "The Pennsy in the Steel City"). "Hell with the lid off." Tom Riggs, now Florida ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Miller" To: "Cadwell, Marvin L" ; "Bruce Smith" ; "PRR talk" Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 5:34 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] Ashtabula, 1941 > Nice vintage color pictures from pre-war Pennsy-land, one wonders how > accurate the colors are rendered (and how well the film emulsions held up > over 60 odd years) - the dreary pall does rather capture the essence of > Johnstown, and with a healthy wash of smoke & grime, it rings true, although > it does seem to have a touch of that "old Kodachrome bluish tinge" - some of > the latest film scanners can extract perhaps a slightly more faithful > rendition through the magic of software & a proper light source (currently > the cream of the crop for Kodachrome seems to be the very pricey Nikon > Coolscan 9000, or the less expensive but slow Minolta Dimage 5400) - anyway, > the pictures do raise the question of how things really did look back when > the smokestack industries were going full blast - perhaps modern day > industrial China mimics the pre-EPA days best. > > The partially denuded hillsides seem rather common in valleys with heavy > industry, and it has changed quite dramatically since the mills have all but > disappeared, I'd imagine most of the trees were taken for firewood, and > output from the smokestacks did the rest (the hillside across the river from > the USS Clairton Works was utterly devoid of foliage as late as the > 1970's) - quite a change from the way it looks now. > > A couple of other PRR pix in that collection, including the Kennerdell > Tunnel on the way to Oil City: > http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P02317.jpg > > This looks like a trash dump along Route 56 West of Johnstown, with the > mainline directly below and Sang Hollow on the other side of the Conemaugh > (below what I am guessing is Route 403): > http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P02028.jpg > > This I think is the old Gautier Works of Bethlehem Steel in the center, the > Johnstown incline is at far left, and the mainline is curving away to the > right (behind Gautier) towards the Johnstown Station, which is just to the > right of dead-center in the picture. > > http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P02031.jpg > > I think this is looking towards East Conemaugh, C Tower may be somewhere in > there, but I need a bigger monitor to see it: > > http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P02033.jpg > > A quick glance at Terraserver makes me think the photographer was standing > along Frankstown Road for those two shots > > Great pix & great inspiration for weathering & modeling. > > Craig Miller > Pittsburgh, PA > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Cadwell, > Marvin L > Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 3:38 PM > To: Bruce Smith; PRR talk > Subject: RE: [PRR] Ashtabula, 1941 > > > Check out the pictures under the keyword "Pennsylvania". Many colored > slides of Johnstown, Harrisburg, one picture of a train on the curve, > and another of a PRR tug in New York. All circa 1941 > > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bruce > Smith > Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 8:02 AM > To: PRR talk > Subject: [PRR] Ashtabula, 1941 > > Morning Folks, > > Tim O'Connner posted this link to the STMFC list. I couldn't pass it > up! > http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P02410.jpg > > We were talking about variety in PRR hopper trains... There is an H22 > along with some H21As and a variety of gons in he empties yard. In the > loads yard you can see a GLC/GLCA, H21A, GLA (?), and GS and GR series > gons. > > Also, look at the weathering variations, from the nearly new paint on > the GLC to some pretty beat cars! > > BTW, the search engine for this collection is at: > http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/cushman/search/index.jsp > > Regards > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith > Auburn, AL > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin > Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 16:56:17 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: mtevans@jps.net Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Jerry, Why don't you direct your ire to the party directly responsible for the confusion, i.e. Intermountain, instead of Mr. Buchan, who is no doubt being both conservative and discreet to protect the integrity of the relationship between the Society Modeling Committee and the hobby manufacturing community? You said yourself that "The sales people at IM don't know what it is. The research & development people at IM can't be reached." How is that Mr. Buchan's problem? Tell your respective customers to call Intermountain themselves and complain. Jeesh, it almost seems like you've got some kind of axe to grind with Mr. Buchan. Hopefully that's not the reason why you appear to be publicly calling him "on the carpet" over an issue that in my opinion is not his responsiblilty. Your truly, Mark T. Evans Anaheim, CA -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton Sent: Mar 8, 2005 11:48 AM To: 'PRR-talk' Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures On Mar 8, 2005, at 2:31 PM, Al Buchan wrote: > Jerry asked: Do you know what the final selections were? > > I don't know what their final selection is, and if we did know we would > not divulge it before they announce it. The problem here Al is that they DID announce it... it's on their web site. It has no description. The sales people at IM don't know what it is. The research & development people at IM can't be reached. And the product is to be available for shipment to dealers in 2-3 weeks. So what are dealers supposed to tell prospective customers? Are dealers supposed to order blindly and then risk getting stuck with unsellable product? We know these structures come from PRR plans, but if they are 1880-1920 era structures, they aren't going to sell real well. So what are prospective customers supposed to do? Order blind? Rhetorical question, Al, how many of each do you want? "Pennsylvania Lineside Structures" _____ "Pennsylvania Interlocking Cabin" _____ At the risk of receiving something akin to Athearn blue-box Pennsy dome cars and F units in Tuscan five-stripe, I respectfully submit that THIS DOESN'T WORK! > > Trust is a key element between manufacturers and the Society's Modeling > Committee, we are working with several manufacturers right now on > products that have not been announced and we will not announce or even > acknowledge working on them until they are made public by the > manufacturer.. For the record, here are two PUBLIC links showing the announcement... http://www.intermountain-railway.com/new.html http://www.intermountain-railway.com/ho/hostructures.htm Though I discussed this project with IM many months ago, under non-disclosure, I do not feel that I breeched that trust by posting the above URL's. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: 'PRR-talk' From: Listmaster Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 20:15:27 -0500 To: mtevans@jps.net X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 8, 2005, at 7:56 PM, mtevans@jps.net wrote: > Why don't you direct your ire to the party directly responsible for > the confusion, i.e. Intermountain, instead of Mr. Buchan, who is no > doubt being both conservative and discreet to protect the integrity of > the relationship between the Society Modeling Committee and the hobby > manufacturing community? > > You said yourself that "The sales people at IM don't know what it is. > The research & development people at IM can't be reached." How is that > Mr. Buchan's problem? Tell your respective customers to call > Intermountain themselves and complain. > > Jeesh, it almost seems like you've got some kind of axe to grind with > Mr. Buchan. Hopefully that's not the reason why you appear to be > publicly calling him "on the carpet" over an issue that in my opinion > is not his responsiblilty. The whole story was not told here... nor will it be. End of discussion. ---------------------------------------- Listmaster listmaster@dsop.com Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Oregon Rail Supply and Athearn Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 21:06:10 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Listers: I have a question about Oregon Rail Supply. Has anyone heard if the = Lines West signal bridge has been released yet? On the website, they = mentioned a January delivery (but they related that they were = experiencing delays). Update on Athearn. I heard on another list is that they are planning on = doing the old MDC RS-3 in RTR. It may be out by the end of the year. I = don't know how accurate this is (afterall, I heard it from an NYC fan) = but if it is true, I would think that the Pennsy would be an eventual = model for them. Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 17:55:39 -0800 From: Ed Workman Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/08/05 From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 21:50:14 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net In a message dated 3/8/2005 3:21:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: The first building discussed must have been swapped for what is now the interlocking tower. I won't say what the former was, cause you might see it later! As for the tower, it will be interesting to see what prototype locations it represents. I checked this against the interlocking diagrams and found only two in the Pittsburgh Region both on the Monongahela Division -- CR at Dravosburg and H at Shire Oaks. The most common interlocking cabin on the West slope was a 23 lever machine with a few having multiple machines. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 21:59:09 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Oregon Rail Supply and Athearn From: Frederick Ripley From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 09:03:16 -0500 Subject: [PRR] NMRA mag cover From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] NMRA mag cover Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 14:26:03 +0000 Subject: Re: [PRR] Buttonwood Train Yard Wilkes Barre Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 11:39:45 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Message-Id: <15cbd93025359d9b89a132c3c6348934@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed To: PRR-Talk LIST From: Jerry Britton Subject: [PRR] BLI EMD Switcher Announcement Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 11:54:25 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net PSA, for those of you who purchased Broadway Limited NW2 or SW7=20 switchers... Some users have experienced sound "shut down" issues when changing=20 directions. BLI has posted a bulletin (yesterday) on this subject. It=20 is available on their web site and states... -------------------(snip)------------------------- 3/8/05 Notice Regarding EMD Switcher: NW2 & SW7 ***This notice applies to certain DCC users only.*** In addition, this notice only applies to those customers with software=20= labeled: ho101f12. On some, but not all, EMD Switcher Units (stk#'s: 632-667), customers=20= may experience a momentary silencing of the sound system and/or a=20 short circuit of the DCC System when changing directions via the DCC=20 System at any throttle setting other than zero (0)--due to a software=20= bug.=A0 This bug exists only in certain units with software labeled=20 ho101f12. Customers who are not experiencing this issue (even when=20 equipped with software ho101f12) are unaffected and no action is=20 necessary at this time. Remedies: Option 1. (Recommended) If you have a unit that is exhibiting the =20 symptoms indicated above: The locomotive will only misbehave in the =20 event that the direction is switched on a Speed Step other than zero =20 (0). Therefore, throttling down to zero (0) prior to changing=20 directions will solve this issue. Option 2. If you have a unit that is exhibiting the symptoms indicated=20= above: A software replacement is available for those who would rather=20= not throttle down prior to changing directions. To have this software=20= sent to you, please first double-check the existing software in your=20 unit. If the label reads "ho101f12", please click here and email BLI=20= for further details on how to receive the software replacement. If you=20= are uncomfortable replacing software yourself, please view Option 3=20 below. Option 3. If you have a unit that is exhibiting the symptoms indicated=20= above: A software replacement is available for those who would rather=20= not throttle down prior to changing directions. To have this software =20= installed, please send your unit to: Broadway Limited Imports, LLC ATTN: Switcher Software Change 601 Shenandoah Village Drive, STE 9E Waynesboro, VA 22980 Please properly insure the unit and include a return shipping address.=20= While the software upgrade is FREE, customers are responsible for=20 freight charges to BLI.=A0 BLI will cover domestic return freight=20 charges via UPS Ground.=A0 Sorry, Option 3 is not available to=20 international customers. ***Customers with units equipped with software labeled "ho101f17 SW7=20= / NW2 (C)2005, QSI" already have the updated software and no action is=20= required at this time.*** ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com= ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 12:37:40 -0500 From: dave pierson Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1 electrical diagram Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net peter@bagge.se wrote: > Can I find a web with the electrical circuit diagram for the GG1? > I dunno. I supplied someone scans from ine a while back. hint. (It runs about 8 pp or more...) best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Subject: RE: [PRR] Buttonwood Train Yard Wilkes Barre Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 11:51:15 -0600 Message-ID: <2261A19CD8CAD8449EFD62CAA311A748D12BE2@EXCHANGE.herzogcompanies.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] Buttonwood Train Yard Wilkes Barre thread-index: AcUkyGX83BB6+xg7QVWPORMpGgHxUQABqbIQ From: "Bill Volkmer" To: "Dennis Rockwell" , "Lee French" , "Pennsy Fans" Cc: "Edward Thomas" Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net To clarify. While I referred to it as the "Buttonwood Car Shop", there was no enclosed car repair building per se........ Like most other PRR car shops, repairs were performed outdoors on a rip track. Quite a few of the money making repairs were performed without removing the cars from the trains such as brake shoes for example. The Buttonwood forces had to carefully inspect every inbound train from the D&H, the LV, the CNJ, and the E-L for open top loads because the Pennsy was very strict on clearance restrictions and very sensitive to loads shifting in the face of numerous passenger trains on adjacent tracks, a phenomenon not entirely familiar to the likes of the CNJ etc. Also, the Erie, having formerly been a broad gauge line apparently didn't have the tight clearances that the PRR had. We rejected lots of open top loads from those guys. One such incident I well remember was when they finished building the New York Thruway, a bunch of road grading machinery was shipped via D&H to a guy in Texas who bought it. We refused to take the cars in interchange at Buttonwood, because they were not properly tied down. The Texas guy showed up at Buttonwood all the way from Laredo in his 10-gallon Stetson and demanded to know why we wouldn't accept his cars. The Buttonwood car foreman walked over to a ditcher on a flat car, reached up and swung the dirt conveyer 90 degrees out over the Texan's head, almost knocking the Stetson to the ground! The Texan said, "I guess y'all are right, I"ll get'em fixed!" He hopped back in his car and rode off into the sunset. AND THAT's NO BULL. WDV -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Rockwell Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 11:40 AM To: Lee French; Pennsy Fans Cc: Edward Thomas Subject: Re: [PRR] Buttonwood Train Yard Wilkes Barre=20 On 8 Mar, "Lee French" wrote: > tks for the info and help. Let's see if I can answer some of the questions=20 > or comments you have raised. Much appreciated! > The web site you've noted is one I found a while back. It's pretty good,=20 > and actually it's the only I've found!! The pictures were a big help. Yep, these are the only pics I've ever seen of Buttonwood and most of the W-B area. > The ice station as best i recall (from the 1960's) is right where the map=20 > shows it. I've been lucky to find another PRR fan, Ed, who I'll foward this=20 > onto. The large bulding with the five roof vents in the panorama i'm not=20 > familiar with, but I don't recall buttonwood having a car shop. Bill Volkmer has posted that in the 1960s, the car shop was a money-maker for PRR, charging for repairs on the foreign through traffic that went by. > Given it's=20 > location in the picture puts it right near the icing siding, just off Ferry=20 > Road. My guess is it's either a warehouse (for the ice?) or something=20 > related. Maybe Ed has some ideas. Is this the IGA building? The ice dock photo shows power lines, so I suspect that the ice was made on the spot. Hmmm.. take another look at that photo! Is the wooden handrail in the right foreground part of the stock pen ramp? http://www.gingerb.com/CNJ%20PRR%20Buttonwood%20Ice%20Platform%20JUN%202 1,%201966.jpg > My recolection was that the stock pens were next to the icing station. Not=20 > sure why, but as as kid i seem to remember alot of low, stock type fencing=20 > in this area of the yard. Interesting! Do you think that the ice dock was on one side of the track (#7 from the diagram), and the stock pens on the other? That'll put them front & center on the layout! > Where did you find the CT1000e? Do you have a copy? I got it from Jerry's pages, at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/docs/index.html#ct1000 > I'll try to offer some help on the other MP's noted below (assuming the map=20 > notation 60 is in the right spot): The bizarre thing is that the CT1000 mileage is off by a mile from the mile markers on the diagram and the track charts I've seen, so we can't really correlate them. A 1962 track chart from Jerry: http://kc.pennsyrr.com/maps/downloads/tc_northern_1962_w-b.pdf and a 1949 chart from Derrick Brashear: http://prr.dementia.org/documents/documents.html http://prr.dementia.org/documents/wilkes_barre_div_tc_1949.pdf > Quin Passing 60.4 (first yard turnout?) - might be one of the classification=20 > tracks, or connecting railroad tracks. Haven't heard this one before, maybe=20 > named after someone?? The CT1000e calls it Quin Passing Track, and Jerry's chart gives that name to track #2 in the receiving yard. > Buttonwood (National Carbon Co) 60.6 (What's there?) - Don't recall this=20 > one, maybe Ed can help > Jct CRR of NJ 60.9 -This one seems off, if the WB Connecting is at 60.7, and=20 > the pens are at 60.8, the CRR should have been at 60.7 or 60.5 or so. If we=20 > back up, the the WB connecting would be at 60.5, the pens would have to be=20 > near the del 4 cars notation, leaving room for the CRR junction at 60.9=20 > Except this means the office was at 70 or so, and I know this can't be > right. I think that this marks the *center* of the CNJ interchange yard; that is, half of each track was PRR and half was CNJ. That makes it line up better. The labelling on the diagram might support this. > And be sure to add lots of dogs to your layout. The yard was famous for=20 > adopting the many strays that always seemed to find a home there, pups,=20 > litters and all. Nice idea! > Dennis, other things I can add that may help. I know there was a caboose=20 > siding near the office. It was probably one of the CRR sidings (maybe the=20 > Louis Cohen too). As a kid I played on them many times so I know they were=20 > there. The engines always seemed to parked on the 6 track near the office.=20 > Also the map shows an engine house track -5- never saw this. My guess is=20 > this is wear the cabeese were parked. Oh, good! I was wondering where they were stored. > Also on the panorama near the maps car repair yard is a building that looks=20 > like the old fire house that was in the area. The two-story building with the full-width garage door just above and to the right of Buttonwood "Tower"? That makes perfect sense. > Hope this helps, anyone else please join in!! >=20 > Lee French, yet another SPF (with pride!) - Collecting PRR in O scale Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA Modelling the PRR Wilkes-Barre Branch in 1954 in N Scale. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Buttonwood Train Yard Wilkes Barre Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 14:10:24 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell From: "Lee French" Subject: [PRR] More Buttonwood Train Yard Wilkes Barre Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 21:59:26 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Dennis, All Maps are just like you noted. Compared to the CT they are 1 mile off. I think Ed noted the RIP track too. I don't recall any other buildings than the ones in the pics, Ed, any recall on this? Great idea on the crew figures etc, I've got a bunch, including a home made welding team, and of course the hobo camp with campfire going. And O Gauge RR mag once ran an article on yards, and pointed out the same idea, lots or junk everywhere!!! Lee ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 23:07:08 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at paonline.com Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Rich, Without having seen the plan, it sounds like it may indeed be like H at Shire Oaks, a simple rectangular building. However, if it matches H, then it necessarily won't match CR, as it had a bay. Jack Consoli ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 9:50 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures > In a message dated 3/8/2005 3:21:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > The first building discussed must have been swapped for what is now the > interlocking tower. I won't say what the former was, cause you might > see it later! As for the tower, it will be interesting to see what > prototype locations it represents. > I checked this against the interlocking diagrams and found only two in the > Pittsburgh Region both on the Monongahela Division -- CR at Dravosburg and H at > Shire Oaks. > > The most common interlocking cabin on the West slope was a 23 lever machine > with a few having multiple machines. > > Rich Orr > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: , From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 06:36:12 -0500 To: "jconsoli" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 9, 2005, at 11:07 PM, jconsoli wrote: > Without having seen the plan, it sounds like it may indeed be like H at > Shire Oaks, a simple rectangular building. However, if it matches H, > then it > necessarily won't match CR, as it had a bay. The dealer mailing includes a very brief sketch of two sides. I cannot find a match in either of the Scherb books, though it is very close to an 1880's era tower in the one book. It is rectangular. No bay showing on the sides shown. The staircase is L shaped and pretty ornate. Not sure how long any of these lasted on the PRR, but it would do well on a freelance PRR layout or, for that matter, on any layout where the era is appropriate. The tool shed matches one in the Scherb book and the watch box looks very close. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 07:57:23 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Jerry and listers, Although these may be structure that were built in 1880's someof these could be seen into at least the end of Pennsy. ALTO was built in 1880 and that was 125 years ago. Granted it's gone through some enlargements and such, but it's still a wood tower. Theres a chance that the tower may closely resemble VIEW when the bay was removed and brick sheathing was applied. With a little bit of bashing the tower could be made to better represent modifications, like removal of the external staircase. Such is the case with J tower. It originally had the staircase, later it was removed in favor of an internal staircase. When purchased and moved by the Lancaster Chapter of the NRHS to Strasburg, the ornate starcase was re-built. I guess in the end we'll have to wait and see. I kow i'll get at least one, maybe two. One for my future layout, the other for my structure library. Best Regards, John Jerry @ Pennsy wrote: > The dealer mailing includes a very brief sketch of two >sides. I cannot find a match in either of the Scherb >books, though it is very close to an 1880's era tower in >the one book. It is rectangular. No bay showing on the >sides shown. The staircase is L shaped and pretty ornate. >Not sure how long any of these lasted on the PRR, but it >would do well on a freelance PRR layout or, for that >matter, on any layout where the era is appropriate. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: From: Jerry Britton Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 08:03:05 -0500 To: John Frantz X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 10, 2005, at 7:57 AM, John Frantz wrote: > Although these may be structure that were built in 1880's someof these > could be seen into at least the end of Pennsy. ALTO was built in 1880 > and that was 125 years ago. Granted it's gone through some > enlargements and such, but it's still a wood tower. There are a few exceptions, but when you see how small this tower is, you'll know they were few and far between. As I explained off-list to another lister, the sketch is hard copy and my scanner is down. I'll try to take a digital pic of it this evening. > > Theres a chance that the tower may closely resemble VIEW when the bay > was removed and brick sheathing was applied. Not even close. > > With a little bit of bashing the tower could be made to better > represent modifications, like removal of the external staircase. Such > is the case with J tower. It originally had the staircase, later it > was removed in favor of an internal staircase. When purchased and > moved by the Lancaster Chapter of the NRHS to Strasburg, the ornate > starcase was re-built. This tower is too small to have an internal staircase. It would have to be U or L shaped and that would take away too much internal room. This is a SMALL tower. > > I guess in the end we'll have to wait and see. I kow i'll get at least > one, maybe two. One for my future layout, the other for my structure > library. > > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 08:04:33 -0500 From: Jerry @ Pennsy [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] P70 interiors Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 13:42:18 +0000 Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com From: Jerry Britton Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 08:45:04 -0500 To: "Chany, Christopher" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 10, 2005, at 8:04 AM, Chany, Christopher wrote: > Could the tower be like Lemo tower that is now at Strasburg RR? It has the general "look and feel" of that tower, but smaller. It has the same pagoda roof, etc., but no evidence of a bay, from the two sides shown on the drawing. I don't have the drawing with me, but the model measures 2" by 2". Do the math. That is 14.5 scale feet square. Pretty small. John Frantz mentioned moving the stairs inside. Based on an 8' ceiling, with 1' between floors, and a 10" tread run on stairs, the stairs would consume 10.8', leaving only 3.7' for the landings (top AND bottom). Make an L or U out of it and there's little room for a desk or equipment. (Note that in those days the bathroom was outside!) I will say that it is a "good looking" structure and will look nice on a well sceniced layout, despite its size and era. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] P70 interiors Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 09:46:06 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-reply-to: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-index: AcUleO89ZCirh2qXTaawydNKOgJ9zAAA48pQ Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Pikestuff seats are bench seats, i.e. they are not individual seats. The P70s had individual, but non-reclining seats. Later P70 rebuilds such as the P70GS or the P70K intended for long distance service had reclining seats. Furthermore, the Pikestuff seats come molded onto a floor piece which spaces them incorrectly for P70 windows. You will need to cut the seats off the floor. The PSC seats are badly undersized, so they too are not usable. I have been using old Walthers metal seats from my stash of ancient artifacts. Having expounded on what not to do, I have only one possible idea for what to do. Bowser still offers the old Selly line of soft metal castings. Among the many castings which Selly stole are the Walthers cast metal seats (Selly part #135). http://www.bowser-trains.com/pdf/selleycastings_ho.pdf So those same seats in my stash may be available through Bowser! I would, however, be wary of one detail. I have noticed that Walthers, at some point, changed the size of the seat. There appear to be large and small versions. I am not sure which is the newer version, and I am not sure which Selly copied. The large size is more suitable. I would love to hear from others as to what available parts they have used. PRRPro recently completed a P70 project. What did people use? regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Ted Andrews Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 8:42 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] P70 interiors Listers: I am just about to start an ECW P70 (original version). What modeling sources would provide a reasonable interior for this car? I am thinking of using the Pikestuff seats as a start. Any thoughts or advice? Thank in advance for guidance and suggestions Ted Andrews ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 10:02:19 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Jerry, In principle, you're correct on your numbers. I'd imagine that being turn of the century structure for non-commercial use, in other words the public wouldn't be using it constantly, that given the ways and means the PRR had thier own standards of building. I wouldn't put it past them to provide an 11 or 12" rise with a 10" tread and 2'-6" stair width. I haven't really thought about it before, but next time i'm in HARRIS, or this spring when I'll be visiting YORK i'll measure the stairs. Most towers that had stairs were built in an 'L' shape. most towers of the era and of that size at a maximum of 18 levers had 16 levers being used in corrolation with a full four track interlocking. 8 levers for crossovers, 8 levers for signals. A few more cents of thought. Regards, John Jerry Britton wrote: > I don't have the drawing with me, but the model measures >2" by 2". Do the math. That is 14.5 scale feet square. >Pretty small. > > John Frantz mentioned moving the stairs inside. Based on >an 8' ceiling, with 1' between floors, and a 10" tread >run on stairs, the stairs would consume 10.8', leaving >only 3.7' for the landings (top AND bottom). Make an L or >U out of it and there's little room for a desk or >equipment. (Note that in those days the bathroom was >outside!) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Peters" Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 10:14:27 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Shore VN in Philly can not be larger than 14 x 14 built 1890's straight outside stairs 23 lever elecronumatic machine.......................boomer ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Frantz" To: "Jerry Britton" Cc: Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures > Jerry, > > In principle, you're correct on your numbers. I'd imagine that being turn > of the century structure for non-commercial use, in other words the public > wouldn't be using it constantly, that given the ways and means the PRR had > thier own standards of building. I wouldn't put it past them to provide an > 11 or 12" rise with a 10" tread and 2'-6" stair width. > > I haven't really thought about it before, but next time i'm in HARRIS, or > this spring when I'll be visiting YORK i'll measure the stairs. Most > towers that had stairs were built in an 'L' shape. most towers of the era > and of that size at a maximum of 18 levers had 16 levers being used in > corrolation with a full four track interlocking. 8 levers for crossovers, > 8 levers for signals. > > A few more cents of thought. > > Regards, > John > > > Jerry Britton wrote: >> I don't have the drawing with me, but the model measures 2" by 2". Do the >> math. That is 14.5 scale feet square. Pretty small. >> >> John Frantz mentioned moving the stairs inside. Based on an 8' ceiling, >> with 1' between floors, and a 10" tread run on stairs, the stairs would >> consume 10.8', leaving only 3.7' for the landings (top AND bottom). Make >> an L or U out of it and there's little room for a desk or equipment. >> (Note that in those days the bathroom was outside!) > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 10:49:17 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] P70 interiors X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Check out Palace Car Company's offerings for pass. car interiors at http://www.palacecarco.com/ Their products come packaged off of the sprue with very little flash to contend with. I have found that once painted and the window glazing and shades installed it is hard to tell what style seat is installed. Precision Scale Co. seats are on the diminutive size for HO scale. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR talk From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] P70 interiors Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 10:08:09 -0600 To: "Andy Miller" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Ted asked: > I am just about to start an ECW P70 (original version). What modeling > sources would provide a reasonable interior for this car? I am > thinking of > using the Pikestuff seats as a start. > > Any thoughts or advice? Andy Miller replied: > Pikestuff seats are bench seats, i.e. they are not individual seats. > The > P70s had individual, but non-reclining seats. Later P70 rebuilds such > as > the P70GS or the P70K intended for long distance service had reclining > seats. > > Furthermore, the Pikestuff seats come molded onto a floor piece which > spaces > them incorrectly for P70 windows. You will need to cut the seats off > the > floor. This is what I did, and posted to PRRPro a few weeks back. You can see my interior at (if you are a member ) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRRPro/files/P70Models/p70interior01.jpg http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRRPro/files/P70Models/p70interior02.jpg I cut the seats off of the base with flush cutting pliers, and then glued them in place using the windows as the guide. Note that I also made dividers to represent a car with lavatories on both sides at both ends. Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Park Varieties" Subject: [PRR] Intermountain Pennsy Structure Pics Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 12:29:43 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net I have scanned the Intermountain dealer sheet for those interested in = seeing what these buildings look like. Go to www.provide.net/~parkvarieties/intmtntower.jpg Frank Brua ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: "PRR-Talk" From: Jerry Britton Subject: Re: [PRR] Intermountain Pennsy Structure Pics Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 12:51:19 -0500 To: "Park Varieties" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 10, 2005, at 12:29 PM, Park Varieties wrote: > I have scanned the Intermountain dealer sheet for those interested in > seeing what these buildings look like. Go to > www.provide.net/~parkvarieties/intmtntower.jpg Thanks, Frank! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 11:35:26 -0800 (PST) From: kenneth broomfield Subject: Re: [PRR] Intermountain Pennsy Structure Pics Cc: PRR From: Jerry Britton Subject: Re: [PRR] Intermountain Pennsy Structure Pics Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 14:58:16 -0500 To: kenneth broomfield X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 10, 2005, at 2:35 PM, kenneth broomfield wrote: > I just checked them out. They are cool looking. Is the tower supposed > to be a modified J-tower in Strasburg? It is the general "look and feel" of J / LEMO. I was going to say that J / LEMO was larger, but comparing the people in the photo (link below) maybe it wasn't! http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/images/keystone_30-3_7.1_t.jpg I will say that J / LEMO had a bay window and more windows all-around. IM makes no mention of a bay (which would be a highlight, one would think) nor do they show it in the sketch. With all the details included, this might be a "starting point" to do J / LEMO. > What would the watch box be fore? Is it one of those that a grade > crossing person would sit in? I believe that was the use (and hence the name). ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR From: Jerry Britton Subject: Re: [PRR] Intermountain Pennsy Structure Pics Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 15:04:32 -0500 To: kenneth broomfield X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 10, 2005, at 2:35 PM, kenneth broomfield wrote: > Is the tower supposed to be a modified J-tower in Strasburg? IM says their model is for a 1-18 lever machine. J / LEMO had a 35 lever frame, with 25 working levers and 10 spares. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 12:06:29 -0800 (PST) From: kenneth broomfield Subject: Re: [PRR] Intermountain Pennsy Structure Pics Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 12:11:00 -0800 (PST) From: kenneth broomfield Subject: [PRR] Tower levers From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] P70 interiors Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 20:12:24 +0000 Cc: PRR talk From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] P70 interiors Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 14:25:40 -0600 To: "Ted Andrews" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 10, 2005, at 2:12 PM, Ted Andrews wrote: > Bruce: > > Thank you for the photo reference to your model. Are you doing a P70 > as originally delivered or a modernzed one that had newer > interiors/seats? > > Ted Ted, As built modernized. Huh? you say... Look at Rob's site for some diagrams. I built the one labeled for cars built after 1926 and P70R before 1936. See: http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html? diag=P70_after1926_P70R_prior1936_fp-E94787.gif My car is intended to be a non-AC P70 circa 1944. My understanding is that on the P70R (AC) one of the lavs was given over to AC equipment. My "hot" P70 includes open windows, since, well, it is June 1944! Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR From: Jerry Britton Subject: Re: [PRR] Intermountain Pennsy Structure Pics Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 15:40:30 -0500 To: kenneth broomfield X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 10, 2005, at 3:06 PM, kenneth broomfield wrote: > On that note was there ever a time that J- tower did not have a bay > window? I don't think so. Many of their towers lost their bays in later years. Only at a recent Northern Central Chapter meeting did I learn why (from a former tower operator)... the advent of hi-cube box cars and other over height cars, and later double-stacks, created clearance issues. That's how close the bays were to the "air space" above the tracks. The bays on BANKS and VIEW were both removed. LEMO probably was spared because the line in front of it would not have handled that kind of traffic. Certainly open for correction or better interpretation. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Intermountain Pennsy Structure Pics Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 20:44:14 +0000 Cc: PRR From: Jerry Britton Subject: Re: [PRR] Tower levers Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 15:53:30 -0500 To: kenneth broomfield X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 10, 2005, at 3:11 PM, kenneth broomfield wrote: > OK with all of this talk of identifying the IM tower how do you tell > from the exterior how many levers the said tower has? It would make > sense to see the switch bars coming out of it an to count them but > with a model how would you tell? Some levers are for the switches, some are for the signals. I don't know that you could ever tell from the outside. During steam years I suppose you could count the pipes to the turnouts, but that wouldn't work in later electric years. The interlocking diagrams (dozens available online) show how many levers each installation had. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] P70 interiors Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 21:13:01 +0000 From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Intermountain Pennsy Structure Pics Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 21:28:07 +0000 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net When I attended the University of Dayton between 1968 and 1970 there was a crossing of about seven tracks on the southwest side that was still controlled by a guy with a stop sign. At that time controls weren't advanced enough to make replacing him cost justifiable. Norm bell -------------- Original message from b.hom@att.net: -------------- > Kenny Broomfield wrote: > "Yeah that is what I thought also. But it would seem smart for them to put a set > of crossing arms with it? But that could just be the fact of them saving money, > to make you buy them your self." > > Not necessarily. Many more of these shanties lacked crossing gates than had > them. A flag or had carried stop sign were sufficient tools for the crossing > guard. > > > Ben Hom > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 17:11:43 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Lines West Volume 2 In a message dated 3/10/2005 10:05:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: Message: 2 Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 04:18:31 -0000 From: "storrs19" Subject: PRR Lines West - Volume 2? Having just received "PRR Lines West - Volume 1: Pittsburgh to Saint Louis" as a gift, I must say I have thoroughly enjoyed perusing it. I sure hope that a volume 2 is in the works and would include the following lines: Pittsburgh-Fort Wayne-Chicago, Columbus-Logansport-Chicago, Vincennes Branch, Terre Haute-Crawfordsville-South Bend, Louisville-Indianapolis-Frankfort, Peoria Branch, GR&I, Logansport-Butler, and other lines that were west of Pittsburgh. Finding information on lines west is very difficult to do and this book does an excellent job with many great photos and maps as well. Chad Hi Chad, Rest assured Lines West - Volume 2 is in the works. My understanding is that Steve and Dave will be doing the Cleveland & Pittsburgh, plus the Fort Wayne as far as Crestline. They showed me a photo of a passenger train at Ravenna OH with an Erie-built on the head end -- good stuff. The remainder will be dealt with in Lines West - Volume 3. I too eagerly await these volumes, and not just because these guys are friends of mine. They're capturing the pix in the 60's and the 70's I wish I'd gotten, but didn't. PS - I consider the chatter that this isn't "pure" PRR to be sniveling. Where else are you going to find color pictures of these structures and right-of-way, most of them unchanged from their PRR days? Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/EpW3eD/3MnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com From: Bruce Smith Subject: ECW roof was Re: [PRR] P70 interiors Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 15:40:23 -0600 To: "Ted Andrews" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 10, 2005, at 3:13 PM, Ted Andrews wrote: > Thanks Bruce! > > Now the $64 question......how did you tackle that crazy 3-piece, > warped roof? Mine is pretty warped and I will be attempting to > straighten it out with the heat of a hair dryer before I attempt to > glue together. If I can speak freely without being accused of bashing ECW or putting them out of business ;^) The roof is a piece of cow byproduct. The one in my kit was so badly warped as to be unsalvageable. I'm still trying to get a replacement for it. In the mean time, I took a somewhat less warped specimen from another kit and assembled it as follows: To remove the warp, I tried immersing it in boiling water for 10 seconds. This helps, but be careful with any heat application as unlike a resin car side, there is no way to lay it down "flat" to cool... so you are likely to add more warps elsewhere. When you are ready to glue, fit one of the clerestory side in place. You may need to sand it a bit, because the fit is, well, "less than optimal". I then tack it into place using fast drying ACC. Start at one end and work to the other. Then do the same for the other side. Once the roof is assembled and you are happy, run the seams with solvent cement to really hold it together. After that, you can add the vents, conduits and other features if needed. Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] Intermountain Pennsy Structure Pics Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 15:49:34 -0600 To: kenneth broomfield X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 10, 2005, at 2:06 PM, kenneth broomfield wrote: > On that note was there ever a time that J- tower did not have a bay > window? > >> What would the watch box be fore? Is it one of those that a grade >> crossing person would sit in? > > I believe that was the use (and hence the name). > > Yea that is what I thought also. But it would seam smart for them to > put a set of crossing arms with it? Kenny, While some crossings were gated, many many crossings were NOT protected by gates, but by a man who carried a sign or flag and stood in the middle of the road. Often that man was a former traincrew or section worker who had been injured (lost a limb). I'm still trying to decide if I am going to model that... > OK with all of this talk of identifying the IM tower how do you tell > from the exterior how many levers the said tower has? It would make > sense to see the switch bars coming out of it an to count them but > with a model how would you tell? Um, count the switch bars? Bill Darnaby has done a spectacular job of modeling a mechanical interlocking complete with bars in HO... makes me glad mine are electro-pneumatic! Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: kenneth broomfield , PRR From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] Tower levers Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 15:55:25 -0600 To: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 10, 2005, at 2:53 PM, Jerry Britton wrote: > On Mar 10, 2005, at 3:11 PM, kenneth broomfield wrote: > >> OK with all of this talk of identifying the IM tower how do you tell >> from the exterior how many levers the said tower has? It would make >> sense to see the switch bars coming out of it an to count them but >> with a model how would you tell? > > Some levers are for the switches, some are for the signals. I don't > know that you could ever tell from the outside. During steam years I > suppose you could count the pipes to the turnouts, but that wouldn't > work in later electric years. Actually, on a mechanical interlocking, you just count the bars, or "pipes" that come out of the tower, since both the signals and the switch points were activated by them. Each bar corresponds to a lever inside, since each lever has to move something. As noted this only applies to mechanical interlocking towers. Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 17:11:43 EST Subject: [PRR] Lines West Volume 2 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net In a message dated 3/10/2005 10:05:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: Message: 2 Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 04:18:31 -0000 From: "storrs19" Subject: PRR Lines West - Volume 2? Having just received "PRR Lines West - Volume 1: Pittsburgh to Saint Louis" as a gift, I must say I have thoroughly enjoyed perusing it. I sure hope that a volume 2 is in the works and would include the following lines: Pittsburgh-Fort Wayne-Chicago, Columbus-Logansport-Chicago, Vincennes Branch, Terre Haute-Crawfordsville-South Bend, Louisville-Indianapolis-Frankfort, Peoria Branch, GR&I, Logansport-Butler, and other lines that were west of Pittsburgh. Finding information on lines west is very difficult to do and this book does an excellent job with many great photos and maps as well. Chad Hi Chad, Rest assured Lines West - Volume 2 is in the works. My understanding is that Steve and Dave will be doing the Cleveland & Pittsburgh, plus the Fort Wayne as far as Crestline. They showed me a photo of a passenger train at Ravenna OH with an Erie-built on the head end -- good stuff. The remainder will be dealt with in Lines West - Volume 3. I too eagerly await these volumes, and not just because these guys are friends of mine. They're capturing the pix in the 60's and the 70's I wish I'd gotten, but didn't. PS - I consider the chatter that this isn't "pure" PRR to be sniveling. Where else are you going to find color pictures of these structures and right-of-way, most of them unchanged from their PRR days? Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "E. Mike" Subject: RE: [PRR] Tower levers Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 22:43:53 +0000 >From: kenneth broomfield >Subject: [PRR] Tower levers >Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 12:11:00 -0800 (PST) From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Tower levers Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 18:09:19 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Ken, Here's by far, the best example I can give you showing corrolation oflevers and interlocking. http://internetcashplanet.com/railroadtowers/PRR-Towers/ClyPAmachine.htm This shows the levers on the interior of CLY, which controlled the confluence of the Northern Central from York, PA and the Atglen & Susquehanna from Columbia. The blue and black levers control switches, while the yellow levers control signals. Each lever threw either one switch, or a full crossover (two switches). In this case CLY had 7 full crossovers, and 2 or 3 single switches. I know someone who did quite a few tours in this tower and was happy that during his tour of duty he never had to throw one certain switch, because it had such a long throw(rod length) that his small frame and body just didn't have enough strength to throw it all the way. Unfortunately CLY was demolished in the late 80's or early 90's, though the foundation still remains as well as evidence of the rod linkage. FWIW, CLY was the next tower geographically south from J. Best Regards, John York, PA Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Western Maryland, and Maryland & Pennsylvania. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 18:42:55 EST Subject: [PRR] Tower size X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net In a message dated 3/10/2005 4:36:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: Subject: Tower levers From: "kenneth broomfield" Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 12:11:00 -0800 (PST) OK with all of this talk of identifying the IM tower how do you tell from the exterior how many levers the said tower has? It would make sense to see the switch bars coming out of it an to count them but with a model how would you tell? Kenny Broomfield Compare, for example, the 1896 PRR Lines West specifications for a tower. Different numbers of levers on a Saxby & Farmer interlocking machine require a different size tower. Notice that the smallest Lines West tower was 12x12 here instead of 14x14 -- and all stairways are shown as external. 4-12 levers 12x12' 16-24 levers 12x17' 28-36 levers 12x22' 40-48 levers 15x27' on up to 88-100 levers 18x49' As a general comment, I'd say most frame Lines West towers I saw, whether built to this plan or a later one, were at least as big as the 36-lever tower. This is probably a reflection of the "islands of CTC" with which PRR would replace a couple of manned towers with remoted controls in a third one. Most of the small towers in my area (west of Columbus) were probably dismantled in such projects circa 1942 (this is a guess -- I'd love to know). PS -- even in 1896, the standard was to include an inside toilet IF running water service was available. Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 19:00:40 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain PRR Structures X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net In a message dated 3/9/2005 11:14:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, jconsoli@paonline.com writes: Rich, Without having seen the plan, it sounds like it may indeed be like H at Shire Oaks, a simple rectangular building. However, if it matches H, then it necessarily won't match CR, as it had a bay. Jack Consoli Hi Jack, Thanks for the additional information. I was only looking at cabins/towers with 1 -18 levers as shown on interlocking diagrams and nothing else regarding the structure. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 18:42:55 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Tower size In a message dated 3/10/2005 4:36:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: Subject: Tower levers From: "kenneth broomfield" Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 12:11:00 -0800 (PST) OK with all of this talk of identifying the IM tower how do you tell from the exterior how many levers the said tower has? It would make sense to see the switch bars coming out of it an to count them but with a model how would you tell? Kenny Broomfield Compare, for example, the 1896 PRR Lines West specifications for a tower. Different numbers of levers on a Saxby & Farmer interlocking machine require a different size tower. Notice that the smallest Lines West tower was 12x12 here instead of 14x14 -- and all stairways are shown as external. 4-12 levers 12x12' 16-24 levers 12x17' 28-36 levers 12x22' 40-48 levers 15x27' on up to 88-100 levers 18x49' As a general comment, I'd say most frame Lines West towers I saw, whether built to this plan or a later one, were at least as big as the 36-lever tower. This is probably a reflection of the "islands of CTC" with which PRR would replace a couple of manned towers with remoted controls in a third one. Most of the small towers in my area (west of Columbus) were probably dismantled in such projects circa 1942 (this is a guess -- I'd love to know). PS -- even in 1896, the standard was to include an inside toilet IF running water service was available. Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/EpW3eD/3MnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <7ccb4933808d8ffc27d3b2b24b101290@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] A Heavenly Experience... Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 20:05:15 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Received the Spring issue of "The Keystone" today... another 64 pages of F units!!! Thanks again, Jack and Chuck, for this second installment of a superb story!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 21:18:27 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Intermountain Pennsy Structure Pics X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net ALTO, HUNT, SG had theirs. Pat McKinney ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "J. Smith" Subject: [PRR] stock car operations in the 50's Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 21:47:47 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net What were stock car operations like in the 50's? Would stock cars = mainly be used in large blocks between cities or could one still find a = car or two on the local country freight? Jeff Smith ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne Betty" Subject: RE: [PRR] Intermountain Pennsy Structure Pics Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 21:53:55 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <002201c52596$bff56620$3f4756d8@FBRUA> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcUlmBSNhQtmfXRPSwmBiAXIwtU5UwATVO2A Message-id: <20050310215252.f633dab9781c4e78912e3aa096be815b.in@mycyberlink.net> X-SLUIDL: C7156DCA-5DA74D9D-966ACEB1-16033F38 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Looks like the original DV (Dillerville Junction) at Lancaster. Cos Wayne S. Betty Cos Communications, Inc. Small business IT services. Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone Subject: [PRR] Intermountain Pennsy Structure Pics I have scanned the Intermountain dealer sheet for those interested in seeing what these buildings look like. Go to www.provide.net/~parkvarieties/intmtntower.jpg Frank Brua ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Hough " Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 22:56:06 -0600 Subject: [PRR] ECW P70 Roofs Cc: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] stock car operations in the 50's Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 06:33:04 -0500 To: "J. Smith" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 10, 2005, at 9:47 PM, J. Smith wrote: > What were stock car operations like in the 50's? Would stock cars > mainly be used in large blocks between cities or could one still find > a car or two on the local country freight? The Freight Ops section of Keystone Crossings has the "Scheduled Freight Service" booklet for several 1950's eras. It lists scheduled freight trains and the blocks that make them up. You will find a few trains that are nearly solid stock cars and others that have a block here or there. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] stock car operations in the 50's Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 09:22:24 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-reply-to: <006e01c525e4$b627a5b0$faed6d42@D7SKK311> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-index: AcUl5kPKYugZzonLR8GfXAa0jXRSlgAXkeaQ Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Richard Burg wrote a great article for RMC in Jan 1993 entitled "Last Stand of Stock Cars in the East". It is mostly about PRR through service from Chicago to NY/Phila. If you can get a copy it may answer many questions. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of J. Smith Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 9:48 PM To: prr-talk Subject: [PRR] stock car operations in the 50's What were stock car operations like in the 50's? Would stock cars mainly be used in large blocks between cities or could one still find a car or two on the local country freight? Jeff Smith ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] ECW P70 Roofs Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 09:29:59 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-reply-to: <4230D086.22755.F60827C@localhost> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-index: AcUl+OyCW7xJNYBATJWz64/3bzyBEwATYlvg Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Ken, I love it! Where were you when PRRPro was building P70s? I will have to try this on my next 50 P70s ;-) I can only suggest that masking tape might work even better than rubber bands and not require any screws. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hough Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 11:56 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] ECW P70 Roofs I've done more of these than I care to think of. Yes they are warped but when held flat, most are straight. What I did: Make a 1/4 in thick plexiglass plate with a 1 inch slot in it. There should be at least 2 inches all around the the slot. The slot is nearly as long as theinside of the roof. Put some 1/4-20 X 1/2 screws along both sides of the roof. Drill and tap them. Lay the roof on the plexi and use rubber bands on the screw heads to hold the roof flat. The slot is where you put your fingers to place the clerestory strips. Apply glue and LET IT SIT a few days. Remove and it should be better and allow you to glue it to the body. DO NOT use heat. You will distort it worse. Ken ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 09:49:53 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Double-slips (was: Tower levers) From: "Ken Hough " Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 10:57:07 -0600 Subject: RE: [PRR] ECW P70 Roofs From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hough Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 11:56 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 10:01:05 -0800 From: Ed Workman Subject: [PRR] The branch from Bellwood Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 11:58:40 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] The branch from Bellwood From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:17:01 EST Subject: [PRR] Brown Street, Dayton, on the CL&N X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net In a message dated 3/11/2005 1:11:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: Subject: Re: [PRR] Intermountain Pennsy Structure Pics From: Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 21:28:07 +0000 When I attended the University of Dayton between 1968 and 1970 there was a crossing of about seven tracks on the southwest side that was still controlled by a guy with a stop sign. At that time controls weren't advanced enough to make replacing him cost justifiable. Norm bell Norm, Would that have been the Brown Street crossing, or one closer to the canal and river? Seven tracks sounds like around NCR. For those of you who didn't live in Dayton, the PRR's former Cincinnati Lebanon & Northern route (3 foot gauge until 1894) entered Dayton from the hills to the south. In the area mentioned, it descends to the valley of the Great Miami River, in a large S curve. In the middle of this curve was Brown Street -- once a station that served both University of Dayton on the hills to the northeast, and the large manufacturing campus of National Cash Register on flat ground to the south and west. In its time (especially during the 20's), this line made it possible to commute daily to jobs at NCR from the farming communities south of Dayton (even all the way from Lebanon). Old pix of NCR show a profusion of tracks in the area, and it was probably the biggest PRR customer in town (notwithstanding some good-sized industries up on the main line). For safety, the plant was switched by 0-4-0 fireless cookers -- the "Rubicon" is preserved nearby at Carillon Historical Park. And yes, photo evidence shows PRR watch boxes still manned in the Dayton area at least through 1973 -- probably later. Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Brown Street, Dayton, on the CL&N Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:58:37 -0500 From: RickTipton@aol.com [mailto:RickTipton@aol.com] Subject: [PRR] Brown Street, Dayton, on the CL&N Subject: Re: [PRR] Intermountain Pennsy Structure Pics From: Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 21:28:07 +0000 Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:07:36 -0800 (PST) From: kenneth broomfield Subject: Re: [PRR] Intermountain Pennsy Structure Pics From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 19:16:38 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] The branch from Bellwood X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Ed, The Bellwood Division was abolished and the division made a branch and put under the Cresson Division. Bellwood had division status in the 1915 CT1000 but was part of the Cresson Division in the 1918 CT1000. Seems I read in Chris Baer's Chronology on the PRRT&HS web site the date but I did not write it down. 1917 comes to mind but you need to check through the site. THe Cresson Division was abolished in 1929 and made a branch of the Pittsburgh Div. The Bellwood Br was abandoned from north of Bellwood to just south of Blandsburg in 1939 according to a map that I have. I have the val maps but don't have a place to unroll them as I think there is a date mentioned. As time went on other segments were aband. and some locations remained and became branches or sidings connected to the Irvona or the Cresson Br. Pat McKinney ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Peters" Subject: Re: [PRR] stock car operations in the 50's Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 21:19:31 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net In the 1950's I remember being at Shore Tower, Philly about 800 Pm and CNY-8 was the hot shot from Chicago to Jersey City All stock, ran via Philly for set off instead of Trenton cutoff. Believe they set off at Zoo...................boomer ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. Smith" To: "prr-talk" Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 9:47 PM Subject: [PRR] stock car operations in the 50's What were stock car operations like in the 50's? Would stock cars mainly be used in large blocks between cities or could one still find a car or two on the local country freight? Jeff Smith ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] stock car operations in the 50's Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 21:54:46 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <002c01c526a9$edcd9950$b850ccd1@your03667082de> Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Re: Boomer said - All stock, ran via Philly for set off instead of Trenton cutoff. Believe they set off at Zoo.. As I recall from walking track in that area there was a slaughter house along the ML between Zoo and Shore - Cross and Cross or Cross Bros.??? There may have been some others also. It's been too long, that was 1964. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Peters" Subject: Re: [PRR] stock car operations in the 50's Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 22:04:05 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net And it was Cross Bros around 2nd Street overpass between N. Phila and Shore off the O track, Next to the Flexible Flyer Sled Co. Sometimes when Zoo was conjested CNY-8 worked at Shore and a yard engine was waiting to take to Cross Bros. MD-18 was always in the area too, all iced reefers solid block Both trains hauled by two P-5 Box or modified.................boomer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Buchan" To: "'John Peters'" ; "'J. Smith'" ; "'prr-talk'" Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 9:54 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] stock car operations in the 50's > Re: Boomer said - All stock, ran via Philly for set off instead of > Trenton cutoff. Believe they set off at Zoo.. > > As I recall from walking track in that area there was a slaughter house > along the ML between Zoo and Shore - Cross and Cross or Cross Bros.??? > There may have been some others also. > > It's been too long, that was 1964. > > Al > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 23:08:19 EST Subject: [PRR] Revese lettering on boxcars X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net In a message dated 3/8/2005 2:50:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: Message: 8 Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 21:59:55 -0000 From: "benjaminfrank_hom" Subject: Re: A prototype for everything Andy Miller wrote: "...Al W shows his X25 with "standard" lettering, name left - keystone right, despite the left side door. Were they done both ways?" You're getting confused between lettering arrangement for the X25 and X25A. Al does NOT show the X25 with reporting marks left, keystone right - they are as they are seen in the prototype photo. Here are the model photos of the X25 again: http://www.westerfield.biz/6151.htm http://www.westerfield.biz/it530004.htm The X25A OTOH is an automobile boxcar. If you go back to the lettering diagrams, automobile cars with right opening main doors are keystone left, reporting marks right. http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html? photo=BuildersPhotos/X31f_81538_B34_BillLane.jpg&fr= http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html? photo=PRR_64732_X37b_E13295_121441_34view.jpg&fr= Because the X25A has a left opening main door, the door opening is skewed the other way, and consequently, the lettering pattern is reversed. http://www.westerfield.biz/6251.htm Ben Hom ************************************** More on reverse lettering (Ben, you may be able to confirm or modify the following): It's been a while, but when I was reviewing "PRR Standard Lettering Phases" on boxcars, to see if they tracked closely with phases on covered hoppers for the Keystone article, I thought I noticed something interesting about this. I'm working here from memory, but it seemed to me that NK3 lettering (1906-1926) was applied reversed whenever the car justified it. The X23 and X25 cars with left-sliding doors got NK3 reversed, presumably as-built. Remember that NK4 (1926-1930), although using the same "alphabets", was a new departure in layout of lettering, both large and data-sized. It seems to me that I observed no reverse lettering in NK4, even where it should have been -- maybe the draftsmen forgot to provide the "reverse" alternative. I have no idea how much mischief this might have created in the four years NK4 was used. Then in 1930, with the simple addition of the circle keystone logo to create CK, we again see "reverse" lettering. Fortunate, as more double-door auto box cars entered the fleet, starting with the X31 and X32 double door variants. So far as I can determine, boxcars and stock cars with a left-sliding door to hide the car number are the only PRR freight cars that used "reverse" lettering. But we can definitely observe reverse-lettered house cars in phases NK3, CK, SK1b, SK2a, and PK. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 23:08:19 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Revese lettering on boxcars In a message dated 3/8/2005 2:50:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: Message: 8 Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 21:59:55 -0000 From: "benjaminfrank_hom" Subject: Re: A prototype for everything Andy Miller wrote: "...Al W shows his X25 with "standard" lettering, name left - keystone right, despite the left side door. Were they done both ways?" You're getting confused between lettering arrangement for the X25 and X25A. Al does NOT show the X25 with reporting marks left, keystone right - they are as they are seen in the prototype photo. Here are the model photos of the X25 again: http://www.westerfield.biz/6151.htm http://www.westerfield.biz/it530004.htm The X25A OTOH is an automobile boxcar. If you go back to the lettering diagrams, automobile cars with right opening main doors are keystone left, reporting marks right. http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html? photo=BuildersPhotos/X31f_81538_B34_BillLane.jpg&fr= http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html? photo=PRR_64732_X37b_E13295_121441_34view.jpg&fr= Because the X25A has a left opening main door, the door opening is skewed the other way, and consequently, the lettering pattern is reversed. http://www.westerfield.biz/6251.htm Ben Hom ************************************** More on reverse lettering (Ben, you may be able to confirm or modify the following): It's been a while, but when I was reviewing "PRR Standard Lettering Phases" on boxcars, to see if they tracked closely with phases on covered hoppers for the Keystone article, I thought I noticed something interesting about this. I'm working here from memory, but it seemed to me that NK3 lettering (1906-1926) was applied reversed whenever the car justified it. The X23 and X25 cars with left-sliding doors got NK3 reversed, presumably as-built. Remember that NK4 (1926-1930), although using the same "alphabets", was a new departure in layout of lettering, both large and data-sized. It seems to me that I observed no reverse lettering in NK4, even where it should have been -- maybe the draftsmen forgot to provide the "reverse" alternative. I have no idea how much mischief this might have created in the four years NK4 was used. Then in 1930, with the simple addition of the circle keystone logo to create CK, we again see "reverse" lettering. Fortunate, as more double-door auto box cars entered the fleet, starting with the X31 and X32 double door variants. So far as I can determine, boxcars and stock cars with a left-sliding door to hide the car number are the only PRR freight cars that used "reverse" lettering. But we can definitely observe reverse-lettered house cars in phases NK3, CK, SK1b, SK2a, and PK. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Tcy2bD/SOnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 09:15:14 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] The branch from Bellwood X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Ed, Found the folowing note on the Bellwood Val maps. Aband. 9-19-1938 from sta. 93+00 (Roots Road crossing ) to sta.582+08 (S. of Blandsburg,MP41.0[as measured from Cresson on the Irvona] old MP 11 as measured from Bellwood). Finance docket No.13091 dated 2-7-41. Although this does not agree with the other small map I have,that smaller map was likely drawn up after the original aband.( most likely when the track was filed for aband.) and the smaller maps says Aband. All Facilities. There is a later map I have that also states aband. of drainage facilities dated 4-8-41. That coincides closely with the finance docket date. The draingae facilities consist mostly of C.I. drain pipes although there are a few stone box culverts and one large 6ft stone arch. I have for years wanted to walk this old line to see how it curved along the hillside but haven't made it. Maybe this will spark some interest in someone else and maybe we can get together sometime to walk it. Pat McKinney ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 09:38:06 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: [PRR] Re: Double-slips (was: Tower levers) Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 09:42:20 -0800 From: Ed Workman Subject: [PRR] Bellwood Branch Message-Id: <3d537116d881e607108acaca8d194381@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Saddler's Time Books -- 1954 -- Who Has Them? Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 21:49:25 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net For those who have a collection of Saddler's Time Books, I'd appreciate if you'd check your collections for books from 1954. If you have any, PLEASE contact me! For accurate modeling, I've been trying to determine the most common power on the 50 or so trains I am modeling (an 8 hour shift). They are about evenly split between freight and passenger. I've perused my collection of books many times. Most don't indicate what train (symbol) you are looking at. Many don't have dates. (I've actually opened my window for photos to 1953-1955.) I've asked many times for tower or dispatcher sheets from 1954. These would record trains by symbol (freight) or number (passenger) along with their locomotive numbers. But nobody has come forth (thus far) with any sheets that I can peruse. With these sheets, I can do a lookup of the locomotive numbers to find out what classes they are. Getting nowhere fast, I started looking to the Saddler's Time Books. The employees that worked locals, in the yards, etc., have more basic books that only record their loco number, start and end times, start and end locations, etc. But the conductors and other employees on road assignments have additional columns that include the train number/symbol. I recently picked up a 30-year lot of time books from a brakeman on the Panhandle Division. At first glance, these would seem of little use to someone modeling in the east, but in the age of diesels, it was common for the locos to stay on the train from start point (or end of electric) to end point... with the crews changing. So a through train in the Panhandle Division would likely have the same power as it did in the Middle Division and Pittsburgh Division. Going through the entries, I was able to analyze the power for about 15-20% of my through freight trains. If you have any 1954 time books for road crews, I'd like to hear from you. You might have data that would be of use to me. Thank you! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: abendschein@comcast.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Tower levers Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 02:50:02 +0000 Message-Id: <02a22fffa598ab4150b35f65b5ab4125@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-Talk LIST From: Jerry Britton Subject: [PRR] Where Is This Yard? Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 07:50:14 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net I have an "Enginemen's Time Book" from a yard engineer from 1954. It's a bit different than a Saddler's time book, in that it doesn't show train assignment. Basically, it's for a local operator that works the same area all day long. In this particular book, the employee did not enter their name, location, etc., so I have no idea where on the Pennsy system they worked! I'm hoping someone can recognize his list of "Start Location" or "End Location" to determine what yard he was working. Entries include: 94N, CW, MS, R Bed, E Pier, Haz, LJ The 94N entry appears the most. The loco number is given for each day, as is the class... all switchers. His role is also shown... "Rd" (road), "Yd" (yard), and sometimes "Host" (hostler). Any ideas? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <006fcc7591632a7c0bcad8b5e7ecc7be@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-Talk LIST From: Jerry Britton Subject: [PRR] Two More Withers Books Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:45:28 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Public Service Announcement... Withers Publishing has announced two more installments in the "Pennsylvania Railroad Diesel Locomotive Pictorial" series. Volume 9, due in May, will deal with "Alco & GE Switchers". Volume 10, due in the fall, will deal with "EMD Switchers". Pricing to be determined. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] InterMountain now has pictures....... Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:03:42 +0000 From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain now has pictures....... Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:50:21 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-MDRemoteIP: 192.0.1.114 X-Return-Path: geshick@velocity.net X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: prr-talk@dsop.com Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Ok, so it doesn't have that cupola on top as was shown in the drawings. That makes it similar to the old MS tower in Corry (wrong # windows) http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/images/cry_ms1.jpg & BS at Pine (wrong # windows, chimney on top). http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/images/bstwr.gif OTTS http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/images/otts.jpg and BRUIN http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/images/bruin_1.jpg have a simpler, but similar look. I wonder if there is an option to place windows in the lower panels. -- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Andrews" To: Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 1:03 PM Subject: [PRR] InterMountain now has pictures....... > .....of the PRR structures on their website: > > http://intermountain-railway.com/new.html > > Enjoy! > > Ted > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:31:31 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Where Is This Yard? Cc: PRR-Talk LIST From: Jerry Britton Subject: Re: [PRR] Where Is This Yard? Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 15:39:38 -0500 To: robert netzlof X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 14, 2005, at 3:31 PM, robert netzlof wrote: > --- Jerry Britton wrote: >> >> I'm hoping someone can recognize his list of "Start Location" or >> "End >> Location" to determine what yard he was working. Entries include: >> >> 94N, CW, MS, R Bed, E Pier, Haz, LJ > > 94N: Cleveland, OH. Kinsman Road Yard > see: CT1000C at kc.pennsyrr.com, page 331 (pdf page 70) > > Have no clue as to the others, although "E Pier" does seem consistent > or at least plausible with Cleveland. They must all be in the proximity of Cleveland then, somehow. This unknown person worked locals, not over the road, and 94N is interspersed with the other entries constantly. Thanks, Bob! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:12:30 -0500 From: "Joseph Witcofsky" Subject: RE: [PRR] Where Is This Yard? From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Where Is This Yard? Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:19:16 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-MDRemoteIP: 192.0.1.114 X-Return-Path: geshick@velocity.net X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: prr-talk@dsop.com Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net MS tower was in Corry, in NW PA. Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "robert netzlof" Cc: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Where Is This Yard? > On Mar 14, 2005, at 3:31 PM, robert netzlof wrote: > > > --- Jerry Britton wrote: > >> > >> I'm hoping someone can recognize his list of "Start Location" or > >> "End > >> Location" to determine what yard he was working. Entries include: > >> > >> 94N, CW, MS, R Bed, E Pier, Haz, LJ > > > > 94N: Cleveland, OH. Kinsman Road Yard > > see: CT1000C at kc.pennsyrr.com, page 331 (pdf page 70) > > > > Have no clue as to the others, although "E Pier" does seem consistent > > or at least plausible with Cleveland. > > They must all be in the proximity of Cleveland then, somehow. This > unknown person worked locals, not over the road, and 94N is > interspersed with the other entries constantly. > > Thanks, Bob! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Where Is This Yard? Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:36:40 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <20050314203132.93579.qmail@web31004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Re: I'm hoping someone can recognize his list of "Start Location" or "End Location" to determine what yard he was working. Entries include: 94N, CW, MS, R Bed, E Pier, Haz, LJ R Bed most likely = River Bed yard, a PRR yard south of the Whiskey Island Ore Dock (a.k.a. West Breakwater yard) and also south of the NYC main, down along the river bed, hence its name. MS may have been a mail shed at the passenger station - but this is only a guess. E Pier may have been the coal dock (pier) which was east of the ore dock, but again speculation. All of these places were relatively close together. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: [PRR] I/M FGEX Reefer Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:41:26 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-reply-to: <20050314213040.91681.qmail@web52301.mail.yahoo.com> Thread-index: AcUo3RVK9xGAPeGCT6uSvIrHvHYlsQAASoyA Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net This month's RMJ has a lengthy article on the FGEX reefers and a description of the forthcoming IM model. No mention is made on the IM website of this car. Does anyone know anything about it beyond what is said in RMJ? regards, Andy Miller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Where Is This Yard? Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:56:11 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-MDRemoteIP: 192.0.1.114 X-Return-Path: geshick@velocity.net X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: prr-talk@dsop.com Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net >From the 1945 CT1000C.. CW - Conway LJ - Lawrence Jnc. (Newcastle PA) --- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 7:50 AM Subject: [PRR] Where Is This Yard? > I have an "Enginemen's Time Book" from a yard engineer from 1954. It's > a bit different than a Saddler's time book, in that it doesn't show > train assignment. Basically, it's for a local operator that works the > same area all day long. > > In this particular book, the employee did not enter their name, > location, etc., so I have no idea where on the Pennsy system they > worked! > > I'm hoping someone can recognize his list of "Start Location" or "End > Location" to determine what yard he was working. Entries include: > > 94N, CW, MS, R Bed, E Pier, Haz, LJ > > The 94N entry appears the most. The loco number is given for each day, > as is the class... all switchers. > > His role is also shown... "Rd" (road), "Yd" (yard), and sometimes > "Host" (hostler). > > Any ideas? > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:17:16 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: RE: [PRR] Where Is This Yard? From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Where Is This Yard? Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:56:46 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <00d101c528e0$a307a620$720100c0@ges> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Re: LJ - Lawrence Jnc. (Newcastle PA) Actually Lawrence Junction was "JU" before it was "Castle." Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain now has pictures....... Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:10:56 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.bluemoon.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net I have one on order that I hope to modify to look like IRV. If that is successful, I'll also do OTTS. Unfortunately I need the newer 1-story Brick MS tower (to use the term loosely) for my 1957 layout. Jerry S correct me if I am wrong. I still need to find pictures of EYE (or in some places it's EY) Brian J Carlson P.E. Cheektowaga NY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Shickler" To: Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 2:50 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain now has pictures....... > Ok, so it doesn't have that cupola on top as was shown in the drawings. > That makes it similar to the old MS tower in Corry (wrong # windows) > http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/images/cry_ms1.jpg > & BS at Pine (wrong # windows, chimney on top). > http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/images/bstwr.gif > > OTTS > http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/images/otts.jpg > and BRUIN http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/images/bruin_1.jpg > have a simpler, but similar look. > > I wonder if there is an option to place windows in the lower panels. > -- > Jerry Shickler > Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: > http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ted Andrews" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 1:03 PM > Subject: [PRR] InterMountain now has pictures....... > > > > .....of the PRR structures on their website: > > > > http://intermountain-railway.com/new.html > > > > Enjoy! > > > > Ted > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] I/M FGEX Reefer Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:51:06 -0500 To: "Andy Miller" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 14, 2005, at 4:41 PM, Andy Miller wrote: > This month's RMJ has a lengthy article on the FGEX reefers and a > description > of the forthcoming IM model. No mention is made on the IM website of > this > car. Does anyone know anything about it beyond what is said in RMJ? I can't speak for the model details on the HO version, but as for an overall impression, it will parallel the N scale version that has been shipping for about 14 months. I don't think they are too far out, since the flat car started shipping. Of course, you also have a stock car coming in HO as well. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 19:07:18 -0500 From: "Frank Seymour" Subject: [PRR] RE: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/13/05 From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] Subject: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/13/05 Subject: Re: [PRR] The branch from Bellwood From: Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 09:15:14 EST Subject: Re: Double-slips (was: Tower levers) From: "Stephen Bartlett" Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 09:38:06 -0500 Subject: Bellwood Branch From: "Ed Workman" Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 09:42:20 -0800 From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 19:31:35 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Where Is This Yard? MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Hi Jerry & list.... Jerry, does your time book have any engine numbers in it? Those numbers can be a big help in trying to figure out where your time book is from. I had the same problem with my time books. That "94N" sounds like a local job. CW may be Conway Yard. I have some Pittsburgh Division time books with "CW to E.Alto" trains so that sounds about right. But then again CW could mean something else. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com (PRR-Talk LIST) From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] Where Is This Yard? Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:03:25 -0500 To: zootowerprr@webtv.net X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 14, 2005, at 7:31 PM, zootowerprr@webtv.net wrote: > Jerry, does your time book have any engine numbers in it? > Those numbers can be a big help in trying to figure out where your time > book is from. I had the same problem with my time books. Ah, I was overlooking the obvious, perhaps... since the time book is 1954, I can look in the MP 229 and figure out at least what division. > That "94N" sounds like a local job. CW may be Conway Yard. I > have some Pittsburgh Division time books with "CW to E.Alto" trains so > that sounds about right. But then again CW could mean something else. 94N was listed in the location column, not a job column. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Rowilki@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:15:34 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Where Is This Yard? X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 139 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Haz could mean Haselton yard at Youngstown - It is often seen as either Hazelton or Haselton. The PRR would run iron ore trains from Cleveland to Youngstown ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jean Gagne" Subject: [PRR] Landover-Potomac Yard Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:20:55 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net By looking at topographic maps, I can see that the Baltimore and Ohio = had a parallel line to the PRR between Landover and what seems to be a = junction with the PRR just before the Ancostia River. Did the B&O use PRR trackage to reach Potomac Yard ? Was this junction = located at Ancostia Interlocking ? Did the B&O have access to Benning Yard ? How many trains during the 50's did the B&O have to Potomac Yard. Johnny ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:47:00 EST Subject: [PRR] Elevated watch box X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net In a message dated 3/12/2005 1:11:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: Subject: RE: [PRR] Brown Street, Dayton, on the CL&N From: "Chany, Christopher" Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:58:37 -0500 Isn't there an elevated PRR watch box at Carillon Park. Saw it last year at the PRRTHS meeting. Chris Chany Yes, although this one is from the "Dayton & Western" on the PRR main, not the CL&N in the area of Brown Street. I don't remember evidence of any elevated watch boxes near NCR -- they were down on the ground. Without researching, I don't know/remember whether the Carillon Park watch box is the one that stood at 3rd Street, or at 5th Street. Both these elevated watch boxes still stood circa 1973 when I photographed them in service. Once upon a time, this part of Dayton west of the Miami River was a separate corporation named "Miami City," with a PRR station by that name near Third Street.. Even after the station and the separate city were gone, PRR timetables still showed that the Dayton Union Station Company property extended west across the river to Miami City Junction, where B&O and NYC peeled off toward Cincinnati, and PRR ownership resumed, headed west northwest toward St. Paris OH, Richmond IN, Indianapolis, and St. Louis. FWIW, PRR Lines West watch boxes on the ground guarded various crossings through Dayton until the elevation project, and one survived into at least PC days on the ground at Miami City Junction. Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:47:00 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Elevated watch box In a message dated 3/12/2005 1:11:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: Subject: RE: [PRR] Brown Street, Dayton, on the CL&N From: "Chany, Christopher" Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:58:37 -0500 Isn't there an elevated PRR watch box at Carillon Park. Saw it last year at the PRRTHS meeting. Chris Chany Yes, although this one is from the "Dayton & Western" on the PRR main, not the CL&N in the area of Brown Street. I don't remember evidence of any elevated watch boxes near NCR -- they were down on the ground. Without researching, I don't know/remember whether the Carillon Park watch box is the one that stood at 3rd Street, or at 5th Street. Both these elevated watch boxes still stood circa 1973 when I photographed them in service. Once upon a time, this part of Dayton west of the Miami River was a separate corporation named "Miami City," with a PRR station by that name near Third Street.. Even after the station and the separate city were gone, PRR timetables still showed that the Dayton Union Station Company property extended west across the river to Miami City Junction, where B&O and NYC peeled off toward Cincinnati, and PRR ownership resumed, headed west northwest toward St. Paris OH, Richmond IN, Indianapolis, and St. Louis. FWIW, PRR Lines West watch boxes on the ground guarded various crossings through Dayton until the elevation project, and one survived into at least PC days on the ground at Miami City Junction. Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/EpW3eD/3MnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:58:11 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [PRR] I/M FGEX Reefer From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Andy Miller asks: > This month's RMJ has a lengthy article on the FGEX reefers and a > description > of the forthcoming IM model. No mention is made on the IM website of this > car. Does anyone know anything about it beyond what is said in RMJ? Based on comments (that I hope I recall correctly) by Bill Welch at Cocoa Beach, as well as posts by Richard and others, this car represents a post war "rebuild" of the 1920's era FGE cars. Included in this is steel reinforcing to the wood sides, visible on the sills as small pads, taller sides (?) and an enlarged (taller) door. This later feature is the most problematic for those of us looking to backdate this offering to a pre-war car. Regards Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 04:58:15 -0500 From: "Joseph Witcofsky" Subject: RE: [PRR] Landover-Potomac Yard From: abendschein@comcast.net Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/13/05 Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:01:14 +0000 > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] > Subject: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/13/05 > Subject: Re: [PRR] The branch from Bellwood > From: > Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 09:15:14 EST > Subject: Re: Double-slips (was: Tower levers) > From: "Stephen Bartlett" > Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 09:38:06 -0500 > Subject: Bellwood Branch > From: "Ed Workman" > Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 09:42:20 -0800 Cc: Conrail-Talk LIST From: Jerry Britton Subject: [PRR] FOR RESERVATION -- HO and N Scale HARRIS Tower Kit Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 07:36:34 -0500 To: PRR-Talk LIST , PRR@yahoogroups.com, PRR-n_scale , n_scale@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Merchandise Service has commissioned The N Scale Architect to produce HARRIS tower in HO and N scales. The N Scale Architect recently produced ALTO tower and the response was excellent. HARRIS is a brick tower and protected the western end of the Harrisburg, Pa., passenger station. It was built by the PRR and was succeeded by Penn Central and Amtrak. Today it is restored by the Harrisburg Chapter of the NRHS. This will be a limited release -- 50 in each scale -- and is the first in a series of anticipated tower projects. The kit will be released to production once 30 of each scale are reserved. (Right now we are in the teens.) We hope to release it during Summer 2005. For more information, please see... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/ms_harris.html Thank you. (This post believed to be in compliance with all lists' rules regarding "for sale" posts either on the "1st/15th of the month" or "sparingly".) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Park Varieties" Subject: [PRR] For Sale; Railworks F49 Flat Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 07:45:41 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net I have for sale one Railworks HO Pennsy F49 well hole flat car, factory = painted and lettered #435460. This model is new in the box in mint = condition. For a picture of this model, go to: www.provide.net/~parkvarieties/rwkswellflat.jpg Selling price is $144.00 plus actual Parcel Post or Priority Mail = shipping costs to your ZIP Code. If interested, please reply to me = directly, including your ZIP Code so I can quote you the shipping costs. = Thanks. Frank Brua ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:07:35 -0500 From: "Richard Poole" Reply-To: To: "CONRAIL TALK" , "LIVE STEAM CHATTERS" , "PRR TALK" Cc: "POOLE, RICHARD" Subject: [PRR] FOR SALE-ONE INCH FREIGHT CARS X-Mailer: X-RBL-Warning: SPAMHEADERS: This E-mail has headers consistent with spam [4000080e]. X-Declude-Sender: dpoole17@PAnetwork.com [127.0.0.1] X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-Spam-Tests-Failed: IPNOTINMX, NOLEGITCONTENT, SPAMHEADERS [3] X-Country-Chain: X-Note: This E-mail was sent from ([127.0.0.1]). X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at paonline.com Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net GENTLEMEN, I have the following ONE INCH SCALE, 4 =BE=94 Gauge freight cars FOR S= ALE: 1) PRR/CB&Q COVERED HOPPER $700 This car is scratch-built mostly of wo= od. It is freight car red and lettered PRR on one side and CB&Q on the oth= er. 2) NYC 40=92 OUTSIDE BRACED BOX CAR $700 This car was scratch-built mos= tly of wood. 3) CNW STOCK CAR $800 This car is an original DECHO kit built by owner.= 4) PRR/CN 40=92 BOX CAR $800 This is an original DECHO kit built by ow= ner. It is lettered PRR on one side and CN on the other. 5) PRR DOUBLE-BOOR 50=92 BOX $850 This is an original DECHO kit built = by owner. 6) UP 40=92 BOX CAR $800 This is an original DECHO kit built by owner.= 7) NW/WM 50=92 BOX CAR $900 This is an original DECHO kit built by own= er. It is lettered NW on one side and WM speed-lettering on the other. 8) PRR 4-POCKET HOPPER $900 This is a scratch built kit by the owner. = It is in the black PRR scheme and permanently loaded with coal. 9) PRR COVERED HOPPER $800 This is a scratch built car mostly of wood.= 10) PRR 50=92 FLAT CAR $1000 This is an original DECHO kit built by the= owner. It is loaded with (10) FORD tractors and is suitable as a riding c= ar if tractors are removed. 11) PRR 40=92 FLAT CAR $600 This is a scratch built car mostly of wood.= Not recommended as riding car. 12) ERIE DEPRESSED-CENTER FLAT CAR $800 This is a scratch built kit by= the owner. It is loaded with a detailer transformer and is constructed mo= stly from metal. It is not recommended as a riding car. 13) SHELL 3-DOME TANK CAR $1000 This is a modified KEDING kit built by = owner. Most all rivet detail added. NOTE: All of the cars mentioned above have been well maintained and are in= good, ready-to-run, condition. Unless otherwise directed, they will be p= ackaged, insured & shipped through the local UPS Store. With the possible = exception of the 50=92 cars, most will ship for around $100. SELLER: RICHARD POOLE 17 South 26th Street Camp Hill, PA 17011-4612 Phone (717)763-0381 E-Mail: Dpoole17@PAnetwork.com PHOTOS: Photographs of all the cars listed can be found in the FOR SALE se= ction of discoverlivesteam.com It is a large site and my listing is fa= irly near the bottom on right-hand side. YOUR INQUIRES & PHONE CALLS WELCOME AT ANY TIME!! -- DICK POOLE -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Park Varieties" Subject: [PRR] Branchline PRR 8-1-2's For Sale Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:43:11 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net I have the following surplus Branchline Pennsy 8-1-2 Pullmans available = for sale: #5020 Centfaun w/ice AC #5021 Centwood w/mech AC #5022 Centhill w/ice AC All kits are factory sealed. Selling price is $23.95 plus actual Parcel Post or Priority Mail cost to = your ZIP Code. If interested, please repsond directly to me including = your ZIP Code so I can quote you shipping costs. Thanks. Frank Brua ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:53:56 -0500 From: centga@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Branchline PRR 8-1-2's For Sale From: Park Varieties Subject: [PRR] Branchline PRR 8-1-2's For Sale From: "Jean Gagne" Subject: Re: [PRR] Landover-Potomac Yard Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 12:13:51 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Mar 2005 17:13:25.0676 (UTC) FILETIME=[4C8D8EC0:01C52982] Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Where did the B&O have access to Benning Yard. Ancostia Interlocking ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Witcofsky" To: "'Jean Gagne'" ; Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 4:58 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] Landover-Potomac Yard > >...."Did the B&O use PRR trackage to reach Potomac Yard ? Was this > junction ......located at Ancostia Interlocking ?" > > A. Yes. > > >....."Did the B&O have access to Benning Yard ?" > > A. There was an interchange for local traffic and later for unit coal > trains at Benning. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: [PRR] PRR "F's" Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:48:34 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net List, Received my Spring "Keystone" today, extremely thorough coverage of PRR's "F's", classed EF15, EH15, and EFP15. Great job, but what I'd really like to see is that kind of treatment for PRR's REAL "F's", the F1 and F3 Moguls and subclasses. Ever since I got my first real model engine, a Mantua "Eight-Ball" Mogul, I've always been partial to that wheel arrangement and from the few photos I've seen of the PRR Moguls they were very handsome machines, and the Vandalia's were large, relatively modern Moguls. Living in Florida, I don't have much access to PRR research materials, and am unaware of any earlier "Keystones" that might have covered them, so can only hope that someone who does have access will considering covering the OTHER PRR "F's". ;<) Gregg Mahlkov PRRT&HS #7418 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <6933a3b7413773e7eceaa1ff7864b443@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-Talk LIST , PRR@yahoogroups.com From: Jerry Britton Subject: [PRR] TrucTrain Service Plan Classifications Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 15:02:05 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net I see references to "PRR Plan II TrucTrain Service" vs. "Plan I", "Plan IV", etc. What do the various "plans" denote? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] FOR SALE P2K Y3's Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 15:59:51 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Listers, I have Two (2) HO Proto 200 Steam Heritage PRR Y3's (PRR Class HH1's) for sale. Both have barely been out of the box. There's no wheel wear, mostly been test run. Numbers are 373 and 376. Price is $255 each or $500 for both. Shipping is $10. These are great stock engines to do the modifications outlined in the August 2004 TKM by John Wright. Please contact me off-list. Best Regards, John York, PA Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Western Maryland, and Maryland & Pennsylvania. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] TrucTrain Service Plan Classifications Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 16:32:00 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Jerry & list, OK, from a former inmate of the PRR Traffic Department: Plan I - motor carrier shipment, motor carrier bills shipper or consignee for freight. PRR got a division of rate. Plan II - railroad shipment, railroad bills shipper or consignee for freight, pays origin and destination draymen (local pickup and delivery). Plan II1/2 - railroad shipment, ramp to ramp only. Shipper handles drayage at origin, consignee at destination. Plan III - railroad performs transportation of two or more trailers owned by someone else only for a flat rate - supposed to be no more that 60 percent of a single commodity in trailer. This was put in for compaines like Universal Carloading and Acme Fast Freight. Plan IV - railroad only performs line haul transportation of trailers and flatcars owned by someone else for a flat rate. Was done because Western roads didn't like Plan III and would not furnish flatcars. Plan V - LTL traffic handled in TOFC Plan IX - United States Mail 's been a while, Jerry, I think I've remembered these correctly. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" ; Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 3:02 PM Subject: [PRR] TrucTrain Service Plan Classifications >I see references to "PRR Plan II TrucTrain Service" vs. "Plan I", "Plan >IV", etc. > > What do the various "plans" denote? > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Edmund Lee Burbage" Subject: [PRR] question Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 16:59:31 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Can anyone tell me where I can find information on Demurage as used by = the Railroads/ leeswitchkey@mchsi.com Lee PRRT&HS 1943 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] question Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:46:19 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Lee, Exactly what information do you want? The governing information was contained in a tariff, RPS 6004-series, Demurrage Rules Tariff. AFAIK, tariffs are now online, but only available to subscribers, being on secure sites. I think that Demurrage now is in individual Class I tariffs, with the short lines publishing one through the American Short Line & Regional Railroad Association. Its Executive Director-Traffic is a personal friend, so how specifc a question have you? Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edmund Lee Burbage" To: "Group PRR" Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 4:59 PM Subject: [PRR] question > Can anyone tell me where I can find information on Demurage as used by the > Railroads/ > > > leeswitchkey@mchsi.com > > Lee > PRRT&HS 1943 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: [PRR] Correction-TrucTrain Plans Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:51:32 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Jerry and List, Correction on Plan V - it is also used to denote a joint rail-truck trailerload movement, where the route was PRR-RDWY, for example, just like PRR-ATSF for all rail. Please pass this on to the Yahoo group as I am not a member. Gregg Mahlkov ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <1ba909b87589975043d3fb176a12d438@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Bowser F30a Flat vs Prototype Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:54:55 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Okay all you HO scale rivet counters... Please compare and contrast the Bowser F30a flat vs. the prototype. I'm working with a manufacturer to create N scale F30a's and F30d's. We have a nice selection of drawings and builders photos. He's asked about the Bowser HO scale F30a as a sample to hold. Is it close, in terms of lines, proportions, lettering (Bowser #55951 as built)? Thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jean Gagne" Subject: [PRR] Benning Yard Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 19:56:01 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Does anyone have information about Benning Yard's operation in the 50's. How did mainline trains work the yard. Did they do their setup/pickup = from mainline (#2 and #3 tracks) and/or secondary tracks (#1 and #4 = tracks). Or did they enter the yard ? What was the length of the yard ? What interlockings were involved with yard operation (if any) ? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 20:59:28 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Benning Yard MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net "Anacostia" interlocking controlled the yard (Old Line). Trains working the yard set out from secondary tracks. B&O entered Benning Yard from their Alexandria Branch. "Landover" interlocking controlled the split of the Old Line (which went south to Pot Yard) and the Magruder Branch which went to Wash. Union Station. Hope this helps. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 21:02:48 -0500 From: tgregmrtn@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser F30a Flat vs Prototype From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Bowser F30a Flat vs Prototype From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser F30a Flat vs Prototype Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 20:28:29 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Which Sunshine correctly modeled in their resin kit. But I agree--- my pet peeve are people who suggest modeling from models (and my major pet peeve is modeling from brass models, which are usually worse than mass produced ones from major suppliers--- anyone want to use a Sunset H21 or H25 as something to even have a supplier look at?) Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: The underframe and center sills are not correct without the holes that were presented in the original casting from GSC. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 01:27:07 -0500 Subject: [PRR] GG1 and Broadway Limited Question (1st Post) From: Michael Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 01:42:36 -0500 Subject: [PRR] GG1 and Broadway Limited Question (1st Post) [Correction] From: Michael Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser F30a Flat vs Prototype Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 06:35:31 -0500 To: tgregmrtn@aol.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 15, 2005, at 9:02 PM, tgregmrtn@aol.com wrote: > If a producer was going to invest in tooling for an N-Scale version of > the F30A (or whatever) why would he want to compare or contrast to the > Bowser Model, especially if he has access to good drawings? the F30D > was a different car as outlined in the archives from Ben Homm. Why > inherit any mistakes? Tell him to ignore the Bowser and work from the > drawings... The underframe and center sills are not correct without > the holes that were presented in the original casting from GSC. Greg, they are not looking to dupe the Bowser model. But the fact that it is 3D gives one the ability to look at it and consider molding approaches (I assume). Yes, we understand the general differences between the F30a ad F30d... most notably the cast vs. welded frame. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1 and Broadway Limited Question (1st Post) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 07:26:24 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Michael: The Broadway would have been pulled by the Brunswick Green GG-1's practically all of the time. The Tuscan Red G's were originally intended for use on the Congressional and Senator trains between New York and Washington. Although, with the Pennsy, anything could have happened. Larry Reynolds Visit the Altoona Area of The Pennsylvania Railroad at http://lreynolds.pennsyrr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 1:42 AM Subject: [PRR] GG1 and Broadway Limited Question (1st Post) [Correction] Sorry-I meant Brunswick Green not Tuscan Green. Mea Culpa, Michael Howdy all, This is my first post. I model Z Scale RR and concentrate on PRR. I live in Long Island, NY. I have a Tuscan green GG1 and the Crimson Broadway Limited passenger car set. I am wondering if the GG1 in that color ever pulled the Broadway Limited? I don¹t have the road number handy but will post it if necessary. If you have any photo links, thank you in advance. Thank you, Michael ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jean Gagne" Subject: Re: [PRR] Benning Yard Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 07:48:28 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Mar 2005 12:47:56.0153 (UTC) FILETIME=[603AFE90:01C52A26] Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On the topographic map, there is a widening of the tracks at Benning on both sides of the mainline. The larger part of it, is on the west side of the mainline, but there is a small widening on the east side. Was the yard located on both sides of the mainline with the main part of the yard located on the east side ? This would allow northbound trains to work the yard from #1 track and not have to crossover to #4 track. Is that right ? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Jean Gagne" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Benning Yard > > "Anacostia" interlocking controlled the yard (Old Line). > Trains working the yard set out from secondary tracks. B&O entered > Benning Yard from their Alexandria Branch. "Landover" interlocking > controlled the split of the Old Line (which went south to Pot Yard) and > the Magruder Branch which went to Wash. Union Station. Hope this helps. > > Dave Hopson > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:02:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1 and Broadway Limited Question (1st Post) From: Michael > From: "Michael" > Subject: [PRR] GG1 and Broadway Limited Question (1st Post) [Correction] Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:43:14 -0800 From: Ed Workman Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/15/05 >From: "Jean Gagne" >Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:20:55 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 15:32:12 -0500 From: tgregmrtn@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser F30a Flat vs Prototype From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser F30a Flat vs Prototype Message-Id: <72d5dc531325751dae5991d0e289d963@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-Talk LIST From: Jerry Britton Subject: [PRR] Pittsburgh Prototype Modelers Meet Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 15:35:04 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Last weekend was the Pittsburgh meet. Have heard nothing about it. Anyone go? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walter Prusick" Subject: [PRR] Branchline PRR 8-1-2's for sale Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 17:23:58 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Frank I'd like to pick up a pair. Please respond to cabincar01@earthlink.net Thanks Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jean Gagne" Subject: Re: [PRR] Benning Yard Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 17:55:43 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Mar 2005 22:55:10.0685 (UTC) FILETIME=[34E760D0:01C52A7B] Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net > located on both sides of the mainline with the main part of the yard located > on the east side ? Should have read West side. My mistake ! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "TCJ Riggs" Subject: [PRR] Monongahela Division Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 19:14:33 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net In a search of the archives of this list, and through both PRRT&HS books on the Pittsburgh area, I have learned a lot about the Monongahela Division that served part of my home town. It is clear that this Division had interchanges south of Dravosburg with the P&WV, and appeared on maps near the B&O and the Montour. My question is whether, through an interchange with the B&O, occasional through freights to and from points south would have run, avoiding the traffic east of Pittsburgh. For example, would B&O, ACL, SAL boxcars have appeared? Maybe even through blocks of FGEX reefers for the Pittsburgh market? Or was it exclusively coal drags and freight for local industries and markets, along with the infrequent commuter train? Tom Riggs ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 20:28:46 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Benning Yard MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net There were two main tracks between LANDOVER and ANACOSTIA interlockings. Nwd Trk 2 and Swd Trk 3. Northbound freights would enter Benning Nwd Receiving Yard which is on the northbound side (eastside) of yard. Mainline tracks (2 & 3) go through the center of the yard. Through the yard there are two secondary tracks, Trk 1 north and Trk 4 south. On the west side of the main is Benning Yards "A" & "B" yard. So to answer you question, yes Benning Yard is on both sides of the freight mains. There was another yard on the other side of the Anacostia River called "Pennsylvania Ave. Yard". You might want to check out "Triumph VI" but I must warn you, the book uses Conrail track charts instead of PRR charts. Hope this helps. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] Monongahela Division Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 20:35:22 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at paonline.com Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Tom, The P&WV's Clairton Branch hooked up with the PRR and the Union RR near the mouth of Peters Creek in Wilson (adjacent to Clairton). The PRR's Peters Creek Branch paralleled the P&WV's branch through Large and out through Gill Hall into Snowden. There at "Gould" it connected end to end with the Montour's Library Branch. The Montour had trackage rights over the last short section of the PRR's Branch from where it split off and climbed a grade to connect with the B&O's Wheeling Branch. The Montour and B&O interchanged there. My understanding is however, that although the PRR and Montour tracks joined, they did not interchange. Thus, there would have been no interchange with the B&O there either. No commuters involved either. Sorry, Jack Consoli ----- Original Message ----- From: "TCJ Riggs" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 7:14 PM Subject: [PRR] Monongahela Division > In a search of the archives of this list, and through both PRRT&HS books on > the Pittsburgh area, I have learned a lot about the Monongahela Division > that served part of my home town. It is clear that this Division had > interchanges south of Dravosburg with the P&WV, and appeared on maps near > the B&O and the Montour. My question is whether, through an interchange > with the B&O, occasional through freights to and from points south would > have run, avoiding the traffic east of Pittsburgh. For example, would B&O, > ACL, SAL boxcars have appeared? Maybe even through blocks of FGEX reefers > for the Pittsburgh market? Or was it exclusively coal drags and freight > for local industries and markets, along with the infrequent commuter train? > > Tom Riggs > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jean Gagne" Subject: Re: [PRR] Benning Yard Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 07:47:24 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Mar 2005 12:46:47.0084 (UTC) FILETIME=[6179A6C0:01C52AEF] Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Would mainline trains do their setout/pickup from #1 and #4 tracks, or would they enter the yard so that those two tracks would be free for another train to use ? Unfortunately, I cannot check Triumph VI. I have only Triumph I. Could not afford to buy the rest of the series... Do you know if there are track charts of the Maryland Division available somewhere on the Web ? Thanks for all the info ! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Jean Gagne" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Benning Yard > > There were two main tracks between LANDOVER and ANACOSTIA > interlockings. Nwd Trk 2 and Swd Trk 3. Northbound freights would enter > Benning Nwd Receiving Yard which is on the northbound side (eastside) of > yard. Mainline tracks (2 & 3) go through the center of the yard. Through > the yard there are two secondary tracks, Trk 1 north and Trk 4 south. > On the west side of the main is Benning Yards "A" & "B" yard. > So to answer you question, yes Benning Yard is on both sides of the > freight mains. There was another yard on the other side of the Anacostia > River called "Pennsylvania Ave. Yard". You might want to check out > "Triumph VI" but I must warn you, the book uses Conrail track charts > instead of PRR charts. Hope this helps. > > Dave Hopson > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 07:52:57 -0800 (PST) From: Angela Sutton Subject: Re: [PRR] Mon Division interchanges Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR@yahoogroups.com, PRR-Talk LIST From: Jerry Britton Subject: [PRR] Division Accounting Maps Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:37:16 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Been about a year since I last asked, perhaps there's a new opportunity out there in cyberspace... I'm looking for a set of 1951 Division Accounting Maps to borrow for the purpose of scanning for use on Keystone Crossings. I already have 1920's and 1941 sets posted... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/maps/accountingmaps.ws4d ...and have the 1958 maps in my possession. If you have a 1951 set, I would really appreciate a short-term loan... or would even purchase them if they are for sale. Thank you for your consideration. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Park Varieties" Subject: [PRR] GP7 Horn Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:45:53 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Can anyone advise of a currently available HO horn suitable for a Pennsy = GP7 as-deliverd? I cannot locate a three-chime horn that has all three = bells facing forward ala Pennsy. TIA. Frank Brua ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Oerm2133@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 19:37:57 EST Subject: [PRR] RE: GP7 Horn X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Frank Brua asks: Can anyone advise of a currently available HO horn suitable for a Pennsy GP7 as-deliverd? I cannot locate a three-chime horn that has all threei bells facing forward ala Pennsy. ********************************************************* Overland Models P/N 9007 Don Lower Arizona PRRT 7555 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 19:37:33 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/15/05 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net In a message dated 3/16/2005 11:44:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, eworkman@arrival.net writes: > During WW2 there was an additional emergency bridge across the Pot, south > of Long Bridge. > It was removed after the war- I probly remember this from an ooooooold > RailRoad Magazine article > Can anyone supply some documentary or photographic evidence to support this? Thank you. Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Douglas M. Day" Subject: [PRR] F7 9766 Horn Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 07:03:48 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Members, Steve Hoxie answered this question a while bacl, but I seem to mabe = misplaced the answer. What type of horn did the 9766 (F7) wear? I have = an Athearn F7 that has been totally re-done including the motors, drive = train, paint, decals, etc. It does not have a horn on it though. That = is all it needs to make it complete. Doug (PRR T&HS 7609) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] F7 9766 Horn Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:56:36 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Hi Doug--I don't remember what I said a while back, but we have all gotten smarter about F units lately. (Thanks, Jack!) According to Jack Consoli's Keystone articles, 9766 should have a Leslie A-125-3E. I am not schooled in all the niceties of the Leslie designation, but photos show all three chimes facing forward with the longest in the center I think there are two choices: Custom Finishes by Bob Rzasa Leslie RS-3L 3 Chime Air Horn Kit 247-222: This is a brass kit so the chimes can be positioned in any position and location on the bracket. Currently in stock at Walthers for $5.95. (Not shown in the 2005 Walthers catalog.) Overland Models P/N 9007: See http://www.overlandmodels.com/ and look in their Parts Catalog. This horn has the longest chime on the left side, but it is a one piece brass casting. Phone 765-289-4257 $3.50 Stteve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:04:10 -0800 From: Ed Workman Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/18/05 Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:13:39 -0500 From: Christopher Hoess Subject: [PRR] WWII B&O Potomac Bridge From: "Park Varieties" Subject: [PRR] Geep Horns (Again) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 19:40:57 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Thanks to all those who offered suggestions on suitable HO horns for = Pennsy Geeps. I now have another question. In looking at photos, I have noticed that = GP7 horns were mounted in two locations facing the long hood or Pennsy = Front; behind the dynamic brake fan and in front of it. Does anyone = know what/how location was determined? Was it by build lot or somehting = else? Any help to pin down location by number series would be = appreciated as roof top shots of Geeps are not too common. Thanks. Frank Brua ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Oerm2133@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 20:09:54 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Geep Horns (Again) X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net I'll take a stab at this based on pictures in Volume Eight, Pennsylvania Railroad Diesel Locomotive Pictorial (Withers), Early EMD Road Switchers. In the pictures, it appears that the horns on GP7scould appear either aft or forward of the dynamic brake blister (or the location it would be in on the locos that didn't have the blister). On page 570 and 571, cab numbers 8507 & 8508, dynamics, hard to tell at angle but appears both have horns aft (between cab & dynamic blister) On page 585, cab number 5844, no dynamics, horns aft On page 585, cab number 5845, no dynamics, horns forward. On same page, cab number 5872, dynamics, horns forward. On the GP9, it appears that the locos with 36 inch fans had the horns forward of the dynamic brake blister whereas the 48 inch fan models had the horns aft of the blister (based on long hood forward) So, as I've heard often, "model from pictures" seems to be the most helpful. Don Luke Lower Arizona PRRT&HS 7555 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 22:48:26 -0800 (PST) From: kenneth broomfield Subject: [PRR] Things to see. From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] Geep Horns (Again) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 00:55:08 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Another stab, again using the Withers book. I think this will work. The horn position depends on which Order Number the engine was built under without regard for whether the engine had dynamic brakes. In typical PRR fashion, the higher numbered engines were built first. Original engine numbers shown below. Order No. 5060 8797 - 8806 1/52 horns aft Order Nos. 5169, 5194, 5195, 5196 8500 - 8512 8/52 horns aft Order Nos. 5290, 5291, 5292, 5293, 5294 8545 - 8587 8 and 9/53 horns forward Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Park Varieties" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 6:40 PM Subject: [PRR] Geep Horns (Again) Thanks to all those who offered suggestions on suitable HO horns for Pennsy Geeps. I now have another question. In looking at photos, I have noticed that GP7 horns were mounted in two locations facing the long hood or Pennsy Front; behind the dynamic brake fan and in front of it. Does anyone know what/how location was determined? Was it by build lot or somehting else? Any help to pin down location by number series would be appreciated as roof top shots of Geeps are not too common. Thanks. Frank Brua ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "J. Smith" Subject: [PRR] heavyweight passenger cars Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 14:02:03 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net I have purchased and built several Branchline Heavyweight passenger cars = and would like to know what color to paint the handrails. The = lightweight cars were obviously a silver metal color and the = heavyweights painted either the car color or black. Should I use black = or the car color to paint the handrails? Also, what color should the diaphram assemblies be? Should I leave them = black or paint all or part of them the car color? Thanks for your help. Jeff Smith ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] heavyweight passenger cars Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 19:35:30 +0000 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Is there a list that tells what trains the named cars were assigned to? Thanks, N Bell -------------- Original message from "J. Smith" : -------------- > I have purchased and built several Branchline Heavyweight passenger cars and > would like to know what color to paint the handrails. The lightweight cars were > obviously a silver metal color and the heavyweights painted either the car color > or black. Should I use black or the car color to paint the handrails? > > Also, what color should the diaphram assemblies be? Should I leave them black > or paint all or part of them the car color? > > > Thanks for your help. > > Jeff Smith > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] heavyweight passenger cars Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 14:32:15 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Handrails were black on the heavyweights and stainless steel on the lightweights. Diaphragms were tuscan red on both. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. Smith" The lightweight cars were obviously a silver metal color and the heavyweights painted either the car color or black. Should I use black or the car color to paint the handrails? Also, what color should the diaphram assemblies be? Should I leave them black or paint all or part of them the car color? Thanks for your help. Jeff Smith ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "andychandler" Subject: [PRR] Lines West building paint colors Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 19:24:39 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Jeff Scherb's latest structure book lists a website that is a handout = from a PRRT&HS meeting, that covers this area. I have not been able to = locate this on a search. Any help? Regards, Andy ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 19:43:56 EST Subject: [PRR] NRAB Awards As A Source Of Model Operating Plans Content-Language: en X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 46 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net PRR Listers - I joined this list 2 or more years ago because of my interest in the Pennsy.= =20 I am not a modeler and have little interest in becoming one. It became clear= ,=20 however, that my Pennsy work experience might be of interest to modelers by=20 leading to =E2=80=9Coperating scripts,=E2=80=9D actual work events that coul= d be duplicated in=20 a complex and sophisticated model set up. I worked for the Pennsy from mid-1960 to late 1966 in positions of increasin= g=20 responsibility (Personnel Apprentice to Chief Examiner Personnel) in Buffalo= ,=20 Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Cleveland and New York. Our job was to represent=20 the company in the face to face, daily dealings with the unions and union=20 members. On the operating side, members of the BRT (trainmen), ORC (conducto= rs), the=20 BLE (engineers) and BLF&E (engineers and firemen) would claim additional pay= =20 under the terms of the collective bargaining agreement (CBA) by submitting a= =20 claim on a time card. Time was, I had large sections of each CBA memorized. A claim would either b= e=20 paid or denied. If denied, it could be appealed through a series of steps to= =20 arbitration at the National Railroad Adjustment Board (NRAB). The NRAB stopp= ed=20 printing awards in 1972. I=E2=80=99ve long thought that copies of these awar= ds would=20 be of interest to modelers who already like to precisely reproduce what the=20 physical railroad looked like. Why not use that physical detail to reproduce= at=20 the model level what actually happened? I have been searching for NRAB awards and have found very few. I thought of=20 the possibility of making a commercial venture of it. I abandoned that idea=20 when Google announced it=E2=80=99s plan to put a billion pages of books on t= he internet.=20 The NRAB decisions would be a perfect application for them. There must be=20 libraries where physical copies of the hundreds of volumes of NRAB awards st= ill=20 exist; I haven=E2=80=99t found any. The law offices of railroad and large un= ions are the=20 most likely places. However, this past week I stumbled on a gold mine. I=E2=80=99d like to share= it with=20 you and see if I was right about the scripts. It appears that the site of th= e=20 United Transportation Union (www.utu.org) has 150 (maybe more) Pennsy NRAB=20 awards (total Pennsy awards, however, should number in the multi-thousands).= The=20 search mechanism can be awkward. I did a search on =E2=80=9CAltoona=E2=80= =9D in all 4=20 Divisions, =E2=80=9Carbitration awards,=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CSpecial Boards= of Adjustment.=E2=80=9D I got 77 hits.=20 This is the front page (and one Exhibit) front each of 3 PRR awards: **************** =E2=80=9CAward No. 13444 Docket No. 18250 FIRST DIVISION NATIONAL RAILROAD ADJUSTMENT BOARD 39 South La Salle St., Chicago 3, Illinois. The First Division consisted of Conductors and Trainmen's Supplemental Board members when award was rendered. PARTIES TO DISPUTE: ORDER OF RAILWAY CONDUCTORS THE PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD COMPANY STATEMENT OF CLAIM: Claim of Passenger Conductor F. H. Andress, November 30, 1943, and Passenger Conductor 0. E. Ruffner, November 21, 1948, December 3 and 14, 1943, and all subsequent dates similar service is=20 performed for Through freight rate of pay account of hauling freight cars,no= t=20 equipped for passenger service, in passenger trains. Regulations F-A-i and=20 4-0-1. EMPLOYES' STATEMENT OF FACTS: On the dates specified in the sub- ject matter the claimants hauled, in their respective passenger trains,=20 freight cars, not equipped for passenger service, and were ordered to run at= =20 freight speed for which claim was presented for the through freight rate of=20= pay unde r Regulations F-A-i and 4-0-1 of the effective Agreement. The claims were presented to and including the highest officer of the Carrier. However, compensation has not been paid. POSITION OF EMPLOYES: On the dates in question the claimants operated Passenger Extras between Pittsburgh, Pa. and Altoona, Pa. The consist of these Passenger Extras included freight cars, not equipped for passenger service, and the conductors received orders from the=20 Super-visory Officer to run these Passenger Extras at freight train speed. Due to hauling the said freight cars, not equipped for passenger service, claims were presented for the freight rate of pay under the provisions of Regulations F-A-i and 4-0-i of the effective Agreement. For your ready reference the above named Regulations are quoted below: "F-A-i. Prescribes the rate for through freight service. 4-0-i. Road trainmen performing more than one class of road service in a tour of duty shall be paid for the entire service at the highest rate applicable to any class of road service performed, with a minimum of a day for the combined service. Overtime shall be paid for on the basis of the rate paid for the entire tour of duty, except that the total earnings shall not be less than the earnings ordinarily accruing to the assignment." Regulation 4-0-i above quoted was agreed upon and incorponted in a joint Schedule of Regulations by the Order of Railway Conductors,=20 Brother-=E2=80=9D [end of page one] ************** =E2=80=9CAward 20182 Docket 32647 NATIONAL RAILROAD ADJUSTMENT BOARD FIRST DIVISION 39 South La Salle Street, Chicago 3, Illinois With Referee Walter L. Gray PARTIES TO DISPUTE: BROTHERHOOD OF RAILROAD TRAINMEN THE PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD COMPANY STATEMENT OF CLAIM: "(Docket No. 715) - PITTSBURGH DIVI- SION - P-597-F: Claim of Passenger Conductor E. H. Ertel, Brakemen M. L. Oliver, H. R. Wilson, C. S. Eaton and A. L. Gray, February 22, 1952, for compensation under Rule 4-fl-i (d) (5), account being required to make lap-back trip between Torrance and Derry while enroute Altoona to Pitts- burgh. EMPLOYES' STATEMENT OF FACTS: Claimants were regularly assigned to Passenger Trains 32 and 13. On February 22, 1952, claimants departed from Altoona on Train No. 13 at 11:50 A. M., and upon arrival at Torrance, at 3:00 P. M., an intermediate point where no yard crews are em-=20 ployed, a drawbar on east end of a car in their train pulled out and it was=20 necessary for claimants to cut a portion of their train at Torrance and haul= the=20 car with the drawbar pulled out to Derry, a distance of 7.4 miles, another=20 intermediate point where yard crews are employed. Derry was the first point=20= west=20 of Torrance at which the shop car could have been set off. After setting off= =20 the shop car at Derry, claimants returned to their train at Torrance, couple= d=20 up, and proceeded on their trip to Pittsburgh, where they were re- lieved fr= om=20 duty at 6:45 P. M., same date. Claim was made for payment of 3-hour lap-back from Torrence to Derry and return. (NOTE: The above facts are the same as the Joint Statement of Agreed-upon Facts in the Joint Submission formulated by the Superintendent, P.R.R., and Local Chairman, B. of R.T. A copy of the Joint Submission is attached, marked Exhibit ? ) POSITION OF EMPLOYES: Rule 4-fl-i of the Agreement is repro- duced in its entirety and is attached, marked Exhibit "B". However, for ready reference we quote below sub-section (c) (3), as well as sub section (d) (5) of Rule 4-fl-i, which are the pertinent portions of the Rule=20 applicable in the instant dispute:=E2=80=9D [end of page one] ************************ =E2=80=9CAward 21153 369 Docket 33781 NATIONAL RAILROAD ADJUSTMENT BOARD FIRST DIVISION 433 W. Van Buren Street, Chicago, Illinois 60607 With Referee Murray M. Rohman PARTIES TO DISPUTE: BROTHERHOOD OF RAILROAD TRAINMEN THE PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD COMPANY STATEMENT OF CLAIM: "(Docket No. 774) -PITTSBURGH DIVI- SION - P-734-G; Claim of various Conductors and Brakemen on various dates between February 2 and March 11, 1953, for a yard day's pay under Rule 4-D-2 (d) (1), account being required to handle their cabin car at Cresson, the initial terminal where yard train crews are employed, at which= =20 terminal it was the practice for yard trainmen to handle cabin cars on=20 Sep-tember 16, 1942, the effective date of the agreement." EMPLOYES' STATEMENT OF FACTS: On February 2, 1953, claim- ants went on duty at Cresson at 10 :00 A. M., in turnaround mine run local sen-ice on the Beliwood Branch. At Cresson, claimants' initial terniinal where yard crews are employed, they drilled out their cabin from the desig-= =20 nated cabin track, placed it on the rear of their train and departed on thei= r=20 road trip. Similar circumstances are involved on the other dates listed. (NOTE: The above facts are the same as the Joint Statement of Agreed-upon Facts in the Joint Submission formulated by the Superintendent, P. I?. R., and the Local Chair- man, B. of R. T. A copy of the Joint Submission is at- tached, marked Exhibit "A".) POSITION OF EMPLOYES: As set forth in the Employes Statement of Facts, the claims in the present dispute were presented on the ground=20 that the claimants, road freight trainmen, on various dates from February 2=20= to=20 March 11, 1953, were required to handle the cabin car of their train at Cres= son,=20 the initial and final terminal of their assignment, where yard train crews=20 are employed, and at which terminal on the effective date of the Agreement.=20 September 16, 1942, yard trainmen handled the cabin car of certain road trai= ns in=20 the making up and disposing of trains. Paragraph (a) (1) of rule 4-D-2 of the Agreement, applicable to road freight trainmen at the initial terminal where yard train crews are em- ployed, reads=E2=80=9D [end of page one] Exhibit from Award 21153, immediately above: "Philadelphia, Pa., March :30, 1954 Mr. H. F. Sites, General Chairman=20 Mr. U. B. Hartman, General Chairman Brotherhood of Railroad Trainmen Brotherhood of Railroad Trainmen Room 1011, City Centre Building Room 107, Wayne Building Philadelphia 7, Pennsylvania Richmond, Indiana Dear Sir: The following subject was discussed at System Meeting held on November 13, 4953: Docket No. Subject 774 PITTSBURGH DIVISION - P-734-G: Claim of va- rious Conductors and Brakemen on various dates be- tween February 2 and March 11, 1953, for a yard day's pay under Rule 4-D-2 (d) (1), account being required to handle their cabin car at Cresson, the initial terminal where yard train crews are employed, at which terminal it was the practice for yard trainmen to handle cabin cars on September 16, 1942, the effective (late of the agreement. The claimants were members of turnaround freight crews \vhich were required to secure their cabin car from the cabin track and place it on rear of trains. The records indicate that road crews at Cresson have handled cabin cars to avid from cabin-car track continuously since prior to September 16, 1942. This is amply supported by the fact that no claims on that account were made from that date until February, 1953. It is significant that the first of such claims were received from brakemen who were employed as such during 1945 and 1946, and not from trainmen who have been working at Cresson since prior to September 16, 1942. Naturally these claimants, who ordinarily worked at Altoona when their seniority permitted, knew nothing about the practice of handling cabin cars at Cresson as of September 16, 1942. Local Chairman Bradley, \vho submitted the `Position of Em- ploycs' contained in the Joint Submission, stresses the switching of cabin cars for the mixed train and drilling of cabin cars first-out for other crews on September 16 and 17. 1942. I-Ic makes no statement to the effect that yard crews moved cabins from the cabin track to the yard, or vice versa, on those dates. Such a statement could not accurately be made because it is a fact that road crews, including the mixed run, handled their cabins between the cabin track and yard. Even if it were a fact that on two specific days yard crews Mvitched cabin cars first-out on cabin track, that would have no bearing on the handling of cabin cars between the cabin track and the yard. 21153-4=E2=80=9D Again, the UTU search mechanism is awkward and there are only a small number= =20 of PRR awards included. But, I believe there is enough of a taste here that=20= we=20 can pursue access to a larger set of the Awards. I can see, for example,=20 searching by engine number, location, class of service, reason for disciplin= ary=20 action and so on. The original awards were in books and, of course, not=20 searchable. We filed key awards by CBA article numbers. Let me know if this approach is of any interest. And, if you know where=20 printed copies of NRAB Awards exist and are available for public review, I l= ike to=20 know about it. Regards, Marty Martin Asdorian Jr., Ph.D. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] Lines West building paint colors Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 20:14:21 -0500 To: "andychandler" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 19, 2005, at 7:24 PM, andychandler wrote: > Jeff Scherb's latest structure book lists a website that is a handout > from a PRRT&HS meeting, that covers this area. I have not been able > to locate this on a search. Any help? Regards, Andy Andy, from recollection, he lists (perhaps among others), Keystone Crossings. Ever heard of it? ;-) The modeling page has the content of the handout from Paul Backenstose's talk fro the 2001 annual meeting on "Pennsyizing your Layout". See http://kc.pennsyrr.com/model/ ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] NRAB Awards As A Source Of Model Operating Plans Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 20:18:24 -0500 To: LAMAassoc@aol.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 19, 2005, at 7:43 PM, LAMAassoc@aol.com wrote: > I joined this list 2 or more years ago because of my interest in the=20= > Pennsy. > I am not a modeler and have little interest in becoming one. It became=20= > clear, > however, that my Pennsy work experience might be of interest to=20 > modelers by > leading to =93operating scripts,=94 actual work events that could be=20= > duplicated in > a complex and sophisticated model set up. Wow! This could hold a trove of info! Thanks for sharing! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 21:35:04 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Things to see. X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net The Railroaders Museum at Altoona is worth the trip even though the outside displays are in rough shape. Horseshoe Curve is a ten minute trip out of Altoona and the tunnels at Gallitzin another ten minutes up the road from the curve. The East Broad Top narrow gauge railroad is an easy shot south of Altoona then a little further south to the PA Turnpike for your trip to Harrisburg. EBT is a very visitor friendly place, if the buildings are open they don't mind if you stroll through. The Harrisburg GG1 is easily accessible from the station platform, don't forget that the restored HARRIS tower is just down the block. Altoona also has a GG1 but two years ago it was in pretty sad shape. Another steam related historical site, just six miles east down the road (U.S. 30) from Strasburg, is the Rough & Tumble Engineer's Museum. They have operable steam tractors (traction engines), old farm machinery, steam driven electric generators, Corliss stationary engines, steam driven ammonia compressors (plant refrigeration), old gas tractors and stationary gas engines, steam cranes, shovels, road-rollers (Buffalo-Springfield) and two miniature trains - one operates on weekends throughout the summer. They have a spring show in May then a week long Threshermens' Reunion the third week of August. Several Pennsy whistles are mounted on the traction engine. The Frick Co. engine owned by the Weaver family has a K4 whistle while another engine has a whistle off of an M1. The 24" gauge Shay style park engine had a Pennsy switcher whistle on it last summer. Enjoy, Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2005 "It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech. It is the soldier not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." ~ Father Dennis Edward. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] ETT Request Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 23:27:14 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Listers: I am looking for a ETT for the Fort Wayne Division that was in effect = from 1945 to 1946. If any of you have this ETT, please contact me off = list. I need you to look for something in the ETT Ted Andrews ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 15:48:26 +0900 From: "Jeremy & Soni Helms" Subject: [PRR] N8 trainphone antenna Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 04:48:58 -0800 (PST) From: kenneth broomfield Subject: [PRR] Bowser From: "michael hmel" Subject: Re: [PRR] N8 trainphone antenna Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 13:32:34 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-ContentStamp: 12:6:949236352 X-MAIL-INFO:06a0710d2de52179b12574490d11a175400031694554b4b18dd531898120543d84a9e1395589098db495951da519a491a58470d0d1d5012434d04134d57d5555bdd5fd556404f441fd2de065fdada0a000fd60a02945e4e0606139318d310979317970913d707070710cbde9f0f081a9a43025a9e144f4d5f47dc5f4c5cd5584cdcd X-UNTD-OriginStamp: jTmkjNShdRGYa700blOSW/reLluNZfiS3wCF5PQ91uauQIdxwTlx6vc3UXI60jLa Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Jeremy , Cal-scale makes a set for an N5 caboose , part # 190 - 455 brass , part # 190-474 plastic . You can see them at : http://www.bowser-trains.com/hocabant.php I'm not sure if these would be correct , actually I don't know if they had train phone antennas on the N8 ? If so you would think that Bowser would have made them ? I searched Bowers site for N8 withs antennas and can't find any . Mike Hmel . Member : TCA , PRRT&HSE Lists : PRR Talk , PC Modeling , Conrail Talk Lionel Collectors , Toytraintrading E-Mail : michaelhmel@netzero.net E-bay : iron*mah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy & Soni Helms" To: Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 1:48 AM Subject: [PRR] N8 trainphone antenna > Greetings all, > > I have just ordered an HO scale N8 cabin car and wondered if there was a > trainphone antenna kit to use on these or do I need to piece-meal it > together? Thanks for any help. > > Jeremy Helms > Okinawa, Japan > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: RE: [PRR] Bowser Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 13:49:32 -0500 >From: kenneth broomfield >Subject: [PRR] Bowser >Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 04:48:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 11:25:43 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] Lighting kits for Bowser HO N5 and N5c From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 16:13:24 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] N8 trainphone antenna MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Jeremy, You would be better off leaving the Bowser N8 a non-trainphone equiped version because the correct antenna masts do not exsist. Cal-Scale's part that was mentioned earlier are for the N5 series of cabins. The N8 mast differed a little bit, mostly on the very top where the pipe passes through. I suppose you could use it if you wish but it isn't right. I believe Bowser said they would not produce the N8 Trainphone system, at least that was their quote when the N8's first come out and whe inquiry's where made for the correct trainphone masts. If you decide to place the trainphone equipment on, be sure to mount the equipment box on the underside. If you leave the trainphone off, leave off the box as well......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Branchline Coach Roof on a P70 Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 18:04:09 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Listers: Has anyone tried this? A coach roof from a Branchline car on a ECW P70? = I don't know if it would be a perfect fit but I was wondering if it = would be easier to start with a Branchline roof rather than wrestling = with a warped ECW roof. Does Branchline sell parts such as the roof separately? ...just having a "light bulb" over the head moment...... Ted Andrews ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: "PRR Talk" , "PRR-Modeling" From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] Branchline Coach Roof on a P70 Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 17:49:45 -0500 To: "Ted Andrews" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 20, 2005, at 6:04 PM, Ted Andrews wrote: > Does Branchline sell parts such as the roof separately? Yes, Branchline offers a variety of parts. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: MLiebeskin@aol.com Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 07:17:56 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/20/05 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net I haven't bought any passenger kits for a long time but CHAMP Pennsy pass. decals used to have a list in each pack which told which cars were in particular consists. If you strike out elsewhere get back to me and I may be able to root through some of these, although, as I recall, these lists were not date-specific. John Liebeskind ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SD45Bob@aol.com Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 08:41:17 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] N8 trainphone antenna X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Jeremy, Cal-scale makes a set for an N5 caboose, part # 190 - 455 brass, part # 190-474 plastic. You can see them at: _http://www.bowser-trains.com/hocabant.php_ (http://www.bowser-trains.com/hocabant.php) I'm not sure if these would be correct, actually I don't know if they had train phone antennas on the N8? If so you would think that Bowser would have made them? I searched Bowers site for N8 with antennas and can't find any. Mike Hmel Yes the PRR N8 cabins had trainphones. The only thing I don't know is if Cal Scale made a separate part number for the N 8 cabins as they were longer than the N 5 series of cabins and might have required more supports. Otherwise they had the same setup as the N 5 series trainphones. Bob Meier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] N8 trainphone antenna Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 08:54:14 -0500 From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 09:47:45 -0500 Subject: RE: [PRR] N8 trainphone antenna MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Chris Chany wrote: The underside of the N8 roof has locating holes for the Antenna supports. Chris Chany Actually take great care if you do install trainphone on your Bowser N8. Yes, the masts are marked on the underside of the roof. These are marked correctly. However, you will also see the dimple marks for the receiving coils. These are not marked correctly. Actually either those or the stack is located on the wrong end. The stack and receiving coils go side by side, more or less, not on oppisite ends of the roof. The radio equipment box (which needs to be scratch built) would then need to be installed to the underside on the same side as the stack and receivers. Check out photos to model this correctly. ..........Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 10:07:12 -0500 Subject: RE: [PRR] N8 trainphone antenna MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net List, I am like a cat, the curiosity got to me. I built a Bowser N8 when they first come out. I chose the non trainphone version. Not rmembering everying about the kit, I had to see for myself what the underside of the roof is like. Here is what I see. The mast locations are indeed located in the correct positions. So is the receiving disc dimples. It is the stack that is located in the wrong end. So, you have 2 options. Use those receiving dimples for drilling and move the stack to this same end, or use the stack hole where is and drill all new holes for the receiving coils. This is your best option as the stack has the base molded into the roof. ......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Alto Tower Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 14:48:27 -0500 From: Subject: [PRR] Altoona Freight Transfer Platforms and Industries Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 13:52:11 -0600 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Does anyone know of a picture of the LCL Frieght Transfer Platforms south of the yard in Altoona? What about the various industries within Altoona Yards Limits? Thanks Listers! Ron ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com From: Jerry Britton Subject: Re: [PRR] Alto Tower Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:14:54 -0500 To: "Chany, Christopher" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net On Mar 21, 2005, at 2:48 PM, Chany, Christopher wrote: > I am working on the N Scale architect's Alto tower. (HO) > I have the following questions. > > At some point the area under the bays was enclosed does anyone know > when? I > have a photo from the mid 50's (PRRTHS book) that shows it covered. > When did the small "awning" roofs around the top of the first floor > disappear? Same time as the bays were enclosed? > There are upside down picket fence trim boards called feather boards > in the > instructions. It says to paint them white. Would they be this color > in the > 1950's or the beigish building paint? > Would the supports that have the decorative circles on them be white > (as > instructions) or the dark brown trim color? > Finally with all the windows it needs an interior since it has an > outside > staircase I was wondering if there were any stairs inside? was the > bathroom > upstairs or down? Don't have the specific answers to your questions at hand, but for some excellent photo references, check out the Library of Congress web site... http://www.loc.gov Click on the American Memories Collection at left. In the following screen there is a Search field at upper right. Enter "ALTO tower". The first link in the results page leads to several 1988 photos that show both the exterior (from several angles) as well as the interior. The bathroom at HARRIS is on the second floor, but it is a larger tower. I have documents that show that MO got a "modern" bathroom in the 1950's. Before then... an outhouse! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 18:30:40 -0500 From: WARDJEFFE@cs.com Subject: [PRR] h37k Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net in the book on pennsy hopper cars, the author makes reference to several penn central h37 subclasses which were rebuilt from new york central (ugh) hoppers. he also made mention of class h37k of which he had no details. i have a photo of one of these cars. it appears to be derived from a pennsy h37b, with the narrow top chord, and the channel side ribs on either end of the car. can anybody shed any more light on this class? jeffery s ward sr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] h37k Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 22:04:04 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <1A238ABE.28B830D0.026BB5AE@cs.com> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Jeffery Ward Sr. asked: "in the book on pennsy hopper cars, the author makes reference to several penn central h37 subclasses which were rebuilt from new york central (ugh) hoppers. he also made mention of class h37k of which he had no details. i have a photo of one of these cars. it appears to be derived from a pennsy h37b, with the narrow top chord, and the channel side ribs on either end of the car. can anybody shed any more light on this class?" PC 460500-460619, 120 cars rebuilt at Sam Rea March 1976. As Jeffery noted, these are ex-PRR cars. See page 73 of Jim Kinkaid's PC Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <41c00588892a8e0db496fc97f708bc60@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed To: PRR-Talk LIST From: Jerry Britton Subject: [PRR] Varnish Database to Include Models (LONG) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 08:28:01 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net The next update (I update batches) to my Varnish database will also=20 note decals, kits, and ready-to-run releases of specific PRR passenger=20= cars. I have most of the N scale handled, but I need some help with HO=20= releases. I have the HO Branchline handled, as well as the current IM=20 (CCS and BCW) releases. The first 12 road numbers of InterMountain / Centralia P85b's, I need=20 the part number (specifically the "-xx" number) and the road number. IM=20= has updated their web site to show only the second 12. Would someone=20 with a complete set please send me this info? Walthers... I need road numbers for the following part numbers: 5881 Pennsylvania Class R50b Express Reefer - Assembled -- Pennsylvania -=20= Prewar Scheme (Light Tuscan, Mineral Brown roof, Olive trucks) 5882 Pennsylvania Class R50b Express Reefer - Assembled -- Pennsylvania -=20= Postwar Scheme (Tuscan body, black roof, trucks & underbody) 5883 Pennsylvania Class R50b Express Reefer - Assembled -- Pennsylvania=20 w/Keystone Heralds (Tuscan body, black roof, trucks & underbody) 5884 Pennsylvania Class R50b Express Reefer - Assembled -- Pennsylvania=20 (1939 Scheme) 5885 Pennsylvania Class R50b Express Reefer - Assembled -- Pennsylvania=20 (Tuscan Red 1943-44 Scheme) 5886 Pennsylvania Class R50b Express Reefer - Assembled -- Pennsylvania=20 (Tuscan Red, No REA Logo 1954) 5887 Pennsylvania Class R50B Express Reefer - Assembled -- Pennsylvania=20 1936-38 Scheme (Tuscan, Olive, Brown, Buff) 5888 Pennsylvania Class R50B Express Reefer - Assembled -- Pennsylvania=20 Summer 1945 Scheme (Medium Tuscan, black, Buff) =A0 25887 Pennsylvania Class R50B Express Reefer - Limited-Run 2-Pack=20 (Assembled) -- Pennsylvania 1936-38 Scheme (Tuscan, Olive, Brown, Buff) 25888 Pennsylvania Class R50B Express Reefer - Limited-Run 2-Pack=20 (Assembled) -- Pennsylvania Summer 1945 Scheme (Medium Tuscan, black,=20 Buff) =A0 Next, the Walthers passenger cars with user applied car names. Would=20 someone list all of the names available from the decal sheet for... 6707 Pullman-Standard 4-4-2 Sleeper - Assembled -- Pennsylvania (Late=20 Scheme) 6747 Pullman Standard 10-5 Sleeper - Assembled -- Pennsylvania (Late = Scheme) 10004 Pullman Heavyweight 12-1 Sleeper - Assembled -- Pennsylvania 10054 Pullman Heavyweight 8-1-2 Sleeper - Assembled -- Pennsylvania Railroad 10204 Pullman Heavyweight 14-Section Sleeper - Assembled -- Pennsylvania=20 Railroad 16742 Pullman Standard 10-5 Sleeper - Assembled -- Pennsylvania - "Fleet of=20= Modernism" Scheme Did I miss any other Walthers releases that are "correct" for PRR? =20 Thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com= ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] P70 Underside Question Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 22:27:58 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Listers: In looking at the parts for the underside of my ECW P70, I have come to = the conclusion that the parts are for a mechanical air conditioning = system. But what about an ice air conditioning system? I have a few = questions on this subject: 1. How long did ice-conditioned P70's last on the Pennsy? 2. Are there any diagrams or drawings of the underside of a P70 for = reference? 3. Are parts available for an ice air conditioned P70 (ice bunkers, = etc). I hope that I am not as redundant questions that have been addressed = previously.....I guess I am a late bloomer! Thanks in advance! Ted Andrews ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 23:03:04 -0600 (CST) Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] P70 Underside Question From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Ted Andrews asks: > In looking at the parts for the underside of my ECW P70, I have come to > the conclusion that the parts are for a mechanical air conditioning > system. But what about an ice air conditioning system? I have a few > questions on this subject: > > 1. How long did ice-conditioned P70's last on the Pennsy? > 2. Are there any diagrams or drawings of the underside of a P70 for > reference? > 3. Are parts available for an ice air conditioned P70 (ice bunkers, etc). > > I hope that I am not as redundant questions that have been addressed > previously.....I guess I am a late bloomer! Ted, First, check out the PRRPro group... we just finished these as our last project. There is some excellent information there on the questions you ask!! Yes, the ECW model details are for a mechanical AC system that is only appropriate for a rebuilt (P70FBR, IIRC). ECW makes an ice bunker, but it is pretty bad. That's it - no other options in HO. We could use a really nice set of PRR ice bunkers (2, 3 and 4 door styles, or more accurately, 3,000, 4,500, 6,000 lbs bunkers). Right now, this is a scratchbuilding project. Regards Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] P70 Underside Question Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 07:11:00 -0600 Message-ID: <2261A19CD8CAD8449EFD62CAA311A748F57823@EXCHANGE.herzogcompanies.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] P70 Underside Question thread-index: AcUvVouD4DtiHCK7Sfenya/fDT5QFAAUokFw From: "Bill Volkmer" To: "Ted Andrews" , "PRR-Modeling" , "PRR Talk" Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net I was at Penn Coach Yard Philadelphia in 1962-63 and we had a few ice-acativated P70s in backup service at that time. I believe that the Buffalo trains and the Delmarva trains were the last to use them in regular service. The Pittsburgh commuters, Pemberton local, and the Valpo had hot P70s as I recall. While at Penn Coach yard we also had several ice-activated Pullman cars that were used on special trains but certainly not in regular service. I would place bets that 1963 was the last year for ice-activated P70s in use on the PRR. WDV -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Ted Andrews Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 10:28 PM To: PRR-Modeling; PRR Talk Subject: [PRR] P70 Underside Question Listers: In looking at the parts for the underside of my ECW P70, I have come to the conclusion that the parts are for a mechanical air conditioning system. But what about an ice air conditioning system? I have a few questions on this subject: 1. How long did ice-conditioned P70's last on the Pennsy? 2. Are there any diagrams or drawings of the underside of a P70 for reference? 3. Are parts available for an ice air conditioned P70 (ice bunkers, etc). I hope that I am not as redundant questions that have been addressed previously.....I guess I am a late bloomer! Thanks in advance! Ted Andrews ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] B28s Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:13:10 +0000 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Anybody have any evidence any of these got slopeback tenders? Thanks, N. Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 09:23:57 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] B28s MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Norm, Off the top of my head, I am going to say probably not. I have many photos 0f the B28s showing a handful of different class tenders but never ever seen a slope back attached to one. Will check later today to confirm again what I have. But I guess there was always a possiblity if the deck height wasn't too far off...Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:46:49 -0800 (PST) From: kenneth broomfield Subject: Re: [PRR] Alto Tower From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 20:44:38 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Alto Tower MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Hello Chris, I would have to check but i'm almost positive that ALTO Tower was still painted gray the 1950s. Light grey with dark grey trim. The window trim was brown. Sometime in the early 1960s, the tower was painted tan with brown trim. Maybe someone else may know for sure. The photos that I have of the inside of ALTO, the walls are tan. I think the bathroom is downstairs. I got slides of the US&S machines (3 Electro-Pneumatics,Atis-Works CTC, Slope "Mini-Box"). Last time I was in ALTO, the floor had a large metal plate under the tower operators desk. The US&S machines are in the center of the floor behind the operator. Not all PRR tower are like this. Hope this helps, Dave Hopson Modeling Altoona PRR,PC ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRTRAINS@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 02:52:01 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Things to see. X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net NOTE, There is also the Altoona model railroad association. It is located in the 5th ward civic center. It sits wright beside the Pennsylvania main line, at the east side approach to the curve. It is a very impressive layout. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] Things to see. Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 06:39:31 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Is this the club that models HO as well as O scale, (S scale, maybe)? If this is the case and my memory serves me well, they have the best collection of drumheads and number plates I've ever seen. Larry Reynolds Visit the Altoona Area of The Pennsylvania Railroad at http://lreynolds.pennsyrr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 2:52 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Things to see. > NOTE, > There is also the Altoona model railroad association. It is located in > the > 5th ward civic center. It sits wright beside the Pennsylvania main line, > at > the east side approach to the curve. It is a very impressive layout. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 07:21:06 -0500 From: "Richard Poole" Subject: [PRR] PRR TM1 or TP1 From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Things to see. Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:21:00 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcUwSCqTiwHa12vzQLudWDAq4p00VAANHSqg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-reply-to: <6a.51cc3fc2.2f73cba1@aol.com> Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Do these folks have a website? regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of PRRTRAINS@aol.com Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 2:52 AM To: RDG2124@aol.com; newtmachineworks@yahoo.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Things to see. NOTE, There is also the Altoona model railroad association. It is located in the 5th ward civic center. It sits wright beside the Pennsylvania main line, at the east side approach to the curve. It is a very impressive layout. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] ECW P70 Roof revisited Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:07:20 +0000 From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR TM1 or TP1 Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:13:38 +0000 Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:07:32 -0500 From: "Richard Poole" Subject: [PRR] PRR TP1 & TM1 FILES FOUND Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:15:43 -0600 Subject: [PRR] RE; PRR Talk tender question X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-6 From: caples5@juno.com X-ContentStamp: 2:3:3656718222 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net The present 7002 (ex 8063) has a tender behind it that I don't think was original. I have searched for months to only find nothing. So my question is 1- is it the tender that belongs to the 8063? 2- what other class loco's shared this same tender? 3- what is that tenders class description? Thanks, John Caples ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: STEVEGG1@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 01:40:47 EST Subject: [PRR] Northern Central Bridge X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Greetings to all, Today while hiking the Northern Central in Balto County, there is a bridge at MP17 (just north of Ashland Rd near Cockeysville). It looks like this bridge is actually 3 bridges. The center main portion is low multi arch concrete structure. The southern part looks to be an add on without an arch (flat concrete) to allow more water to flow under. The interesting thing I found is the north end on the west side only is stone. I am assuming this stone portion is part of the orginal bridge. So, I am wondering if this was a stone arch bridge with low arches as well?? Just curious what the early bridge may have looked like. Thanks! Steve Panopoulos ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne Betty" Subject: RE: [PRR] RE; PRR Talk tender question Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 07:52:51 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <20050324.221544.608.0.caples5@juno.com> Thread-Index: AcUw8mVRhskeBQ1qTBCF5KDW9zzEDQARvpfQ Message-id: <20050325075211.14807bdcf67c4c17944812d8358d11c0.in@mycyberlink.net> X-SLUIDL: AC575324-72484C18-B0D1890C-30D090C0 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Howdy John: This may help a bit. http://www.wsbcos.com/tenders.htm Cos Wayne S. Betty Cos Communications, Inc. Small business IT services. Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone Subject: [PRR] RE; PRR Talk tender question The present 7002 (ex 8063) has a tender behind it that I don't think was original. I have searched for months to only find nothing. So my question is 1- is it the tender that belongs to the 8063? 2- what other class loco's shared this same tender? 3- what is that tenders class description? Thanks, John Caples ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] N8 Trainphone Installations Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:18:52 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net There was some recent talk about the installation of trainphone equipment on the class N8 cabin. The April issue of TKM will have detailed drawings as well as Jim Hunter's article on upgrading the Bowser HO model of this car, which includes trainphone equipment. Jim has created a exceptional model. I have just finished a final edit of the article and the photos and drawings on which Jack Consoli also collaborated.. Al Buchan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JAS3678@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 11:11:00 EST Subject: [PRR] (no subject) X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net im interested in PRR labels to attach to passengers without decals where do I go ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "J. Smith" Subject: [PRR] sleeper shade color Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:23:38 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Looking at photos of PRR heavyweight sleepers, the shades appear brown. = Does anyone know if the shades were brown or am I looking at faded = black? Thanks, J. Smith ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Hough " Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 16:13:01 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] (no subject) From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] (no subject) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 18:05:44 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net Passengers without decals might object to having labels attached to them. I know back when I rode the PRR, mostly on a pass, I didn't have a decal and no one attempted to attach a label to me. I know the paying passengers would certainly been unhappy if the Conductor had attempted to attach a label to them. (I ignored this the first time, but I could not resist, mea culpa.) Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Hough " To: ; Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] (no subject) > What scale, What era? > Put in a subject also please. And Please sign your name > Ken > > im interested in PRR labels to attach to passengers without decals where > do > I go > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For > assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 17:06:26 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] E7s tender question From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 20:20:48 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] E7s tender question MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net John, I have a Key Imports model of 8063. The tender suppled with this loco, according to the Tender Badge Plate attched, it is a 70P58F Class. Similar to the low side E6 tender but has short height coal side sheets: Rear_____/----- Front ....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWSNRHS@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 21:20:16 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Things to see. X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net In a message dated 03/24/2005 2:53:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRRTRAINS@aol.com writes: NOTE, There is also the Altoona model railroad association. It is located in the 5th ward civic center. It sits wright beside the Pennsylvania main line, at the east side approach to the curve. It is a very impressive layout. Actually, its in the 12th Ward Civic Center, 2nd Floor...Altoona Association of Model Railroaders, and yes the layout is most impressive. The Club is usually open Friday nights and their location has one of the most impressive collections of PRR builders/badge plates and number Keystones to be found anywhere. The Altoona Association of Model Railroaders is not to be confused with the Alto Model Train Museum, located not far away at Beale Avenue (rear) and 29th Street, adjacent to the 29th St Bridge over the Hollidaysburg Branch. Fourth Floor. Dave Seidel, Altoona ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jols706@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 23:03:17 EST Subject: [PRR] Loco colors? X-LR-SENT-TO: eclipse.net OK, I'm green as possible. Because my photos are B&W. How many of my locos should be green? E6, G5, H9, I1. 1920 era. Were any of these ever black? Are all cab roofs red, or can some be loco color? Do the tenders for all the above get red on the decks? Doghouse roof? Thank you, jolS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!!