From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] C.T. xxxx Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 14:06:19 +0000 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Most of the paper we are interested in is a C.T. followed by a number. I have right in front of me a C.T 815B Daily Check of Cars and Record of Seals. My question is what does C. T. stand for? Surprisingly I also have a clearance book but it isn't a C. T. It is general notice no. 207-B. Go figure! Thank you, Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Park Varieties" Subject: [PRR] For Sale - Walthers Undec. R50B's Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 09:08:12 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I have for sale 6 Walthers undecorated R50B express reefers (stock = #932-5880). These undec. models do not have any of the detail parts = applied to the body. Price is $13.95 each plus shipping to your ZIP Code depending upon = quantity wanted. Please respond to me off list. Thanks. Frank Brua ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] C.T. xxxx Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 08:10:56 -0600 Message-ID: <2261A19CD8CAD8449EFD62CAA311A748B47342@EXCHANGE.herzogcompanies.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] C.T. xxxx Thread-Index: AcUIZ0kallJtCGVjQNugSGhZqBmqygAAIItg From: "Bill Volkmer" To: , "PRR-Talk" Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com C.T. stood for "Conducting Transportation". -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of ndbprr@att.net Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 9:06 AM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] C.T. xxxx Most of the paper we are interested in is a C.T. followed by a number. I have right in front of me a C.T 815B Daily Check of Cars and Record of Seals. My question is what does C. T. stand for? Surprisingly I also have a clearance book but it isn't a C. T. It is general notice no. 207-B. Go figure! Thank you, Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 09:22:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] C.T. xxxx From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Tuesday, February 1, 2005, at 09:06 AM, ndbprr@att.net wrote: > Most of the paper we are interested in is a C.T. followed by a number. > I have right in front of me a C.T 815B Daily Check of Cars and Record > of Seals. My question is what does C. T. stand for? Surprisingly I > also have a clearance book but it isn't a C. T. It is general notice > no. 207-B. Go figure! I believe all of the CT forms came out of the Transportation department. Could the T be for Transportation? And the C for Conducting or something? Totally guessing. Do not interpret as correct! A listing (probably not complete) of Transportation forms can be found here... http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Prr/Documentation/Forms/ct_forms.html ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 09:55:25 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Frosty Rails 2005 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Lists, Saturday, February 12th, the Beaver Valley Junction Chapter of the NRHS will be hosting "Frosty Rails 2005", an all day Model Railroad and Railfan event. Should be something for everyone. The event is being held at the Homewood Vol, Fire Dept Social Hall. Homewood, Pa. (not the Pgh suburb) is located off the Pa. Turnpike near the interection of route 18 between the towns of Beaver Falls and Kopple. Direction Signs will be posted at various spots to guide you in. For more info on schedule of events, please refer to this site: http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/bvjc3/index.html and the most recent issue of Railpace Homewood Jct (M.P. 34) is located on the x-PRR now NS mainline and plenty of action will be seen right out the back door. Other railfan spots include "Summit Cut" overlook, Conway Yds, New Castle CSX action, Beaver Falls/New Brighton. All main line action. Hope to see you there for this 1st planned of an annual event........Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Acbcbert@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 11:34:04 EST Subject: [PRR] Bomb Cars X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Listers, The numerous responses to this subject triggered some memories. i worked as an Oiler / Greaser on the 3 to 11 shift ( I was still in High School, but, along with two others, were left out of classes early) in the Columbia, PA yards. This was from late summer 1944 to spring 1945. I noticed numerous trains passing through with most ( if not all ) cars marked with the Explosive / Ordinance signs on them All were going either south or east, presumably to a POE at Baltimore , Philadelphia, or Hobokon ( sp?). Cola provide helpers to most going east, either double headers or pushers, or both.. The usual car was a box ( 40' or 50', I don't remember, but a fair number of gondolas, and an occasional flat. ( I once found a live 37 mm shell lying loose in a gondola parked in the Yard, and took it home. Even though I was almost 17 at the time, my Dad beat the living S--- out of me [ the last time he ever did this ] and made me take it back. It was not unusual to have a bunch of these cars sitting in the Yard, albeit for only a very short time. Where they came from, I don't know, but they were soon either shunted onto an existing train or, if enough accumulated, made up into a Special. As a matter of historical trivia, later in life, as a Professional Civil Engineer, I had occasion to work on a couple WWII ordinance Plant conversions to Local Industrial Parks. There was a TNT Factory south of Meadville, an Army Ordinance storage facility south of Williamsport near Allenwood ( where the Federal " Country Club" Prison is now ), a Naval Ordinance Plant east of York ( Harley - Davidson is there now ), an Ordinance storage facility at Lordstown, Ohio ( Chevrolet Motors has two assembly plants there now, and Ordinance facilities at Tobyhanna, Letterkenny, Kittatiny , and probably many others throughout PA. All of which had sidings, probably all PRR. Now, I have a question : I want to refresh my memory as to what types of locomotives were stationed at COLA in the period 1944 - 1945. I have a copy of the M. P. 229 - Assignment of Locomotives ( thanks to Jerry's web site ), but can't tell what locations. Does " ARF" stand for Assistant Road Foreman ? That would give me a cross reference which might be helpful. Thanks in advance. Allen B. Campbell, P. E. "Bert" ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] C.T. xxxx Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 11:56:55 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <2261A19CD8CAD8449EFD62CAA311A748B47342@EXCHANGE.herzogcompanies.com> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Re: C.T. stood for "Conducting Transportation". Mmmmmm, interesting. I always though it stood for Chief of Transportation - i.e. a document put out by the Chief of Transportation's office (an old term). Like the CE documents were those issued by the Chief Engineer.. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Walthers Pullman 3-2 Longe Observation Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 20:42:12 +0000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 15:51:53 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers Pullman 3-2 Longe Observation From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Tuesday, February 1, 2005, at 03:42 PM, Ted Andrews wrote: > I see that Walthers will be coming out with this car in PRR. Is this > car accurate for the Pennsy? The PRR did have a 3-2-Obs car built to plan 3959. Is this the plan Walthers is using? I think there was only one such car... Joel Chandler Harris. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] For Sale: Soho Brass Obs. Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 15:56:40 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Listers, For your buying pleasure. One (1) HO PRR Soho & Co. Brass Undecorated Congressional blunt-end observation car. Stock #1808. PRR Class POC85c. Description: #7126 Parlor-Telephone-Observation, Champ Decals are included, car is mint although missing protective plastic. Original box and foam. Asking for $110, or a fair brass trade. Please contact me for information before Saturday. Regards, John York, PA Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Western Maryland, and Maryland & Pennsylvania. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 13:06:26 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers Pullman 3-2 Longe Observation From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Walthers Pullman 3-2 Longe Observation Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 16:22:23 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-index: AcUIn4voBDAfiMVISrK14gg2dWZsxgABDekg In-reply-to: Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com As I recall the PRR had only one 3-2 Obs which it acquired during WWII and converted for war emergency commuter use. The Walthers diner supposedly is a Southern prototype. Does it also match the SAL cars? The coaches are a B&O prototype. Given 2D-P5 trucks, could they be stand-ins for P70s? regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Ted Andrews Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 3:42 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Walthers Pullman 3-2 Longe Observation Greetings: I see that Walthers will be coming out with this car in PRR. Is this car accurate for the Pennsy? Ted P.S: I would imagine that the 36-seat diner and paired-window coach are not PRR prototypes. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Walthers Pullman 3-2 Longe Observation Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 16:51:09 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 In-Reply-To: <20050201210626.39808.qmail@web52602.mail.yahoo.com> X-PMX-Version: 4.7.0.111621, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.2.0, Antispam-Data: 2005.2.1.7 X-PerlMx-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIII, Probability=7%, Report='__CT 0, __CTE 0, __CTYPE_CHARSET_QUOTED 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __HAS_MSMAIL_PRI 0, __HAS_X_MAILER 0, __HAS_X_PRIORITY 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __SANE_MSGID 0' Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com According to Garry's list: http://prr.railfan.net/passenger/GSPEAR/GSPEAR_PRR_Heavyweight_Pullmans.pdf there were some 3-2's of the same plan 3959 converted into classes PU92R and PUW134 of WWII coaches. So if the Walthers car is a 3959 maybe it can be used for these too? Rob -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Bill Daniels Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 4:06 PM To: Jerry Britton; Ted Andrews Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers Pullman 3-2 Longe Observation "Do'n throw me in that briar patch, B'rer Listmeister!!! B'rer Bill Daniels TooSawn Aridzona! --- Jerry Britton wrote: > > The PRR did have a 3-2-Obs car built to plan 3959. > Is this the plan > Walthers is using? > > I think there was only one such car... Joel Chandler > Harris. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N > Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" > mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit > http://lists.dsop.com. > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Park Varieties" Subject: [PRR] BLI J1 #6170 Overstock Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 17:22:38 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I have too many Brodway Limited #6170 J1's on hand and would like to = move several out at a bargain price of $257.00 which includes UPS = shipping. These engines are new in the box and in mint condition. This special price applies to this engine number only. Please reply to directly to me off list. Thanks. Frank Brua ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "J. Smith" Subject: [PRR] new PRR book Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 19:34:04 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I noticed that there is a new book out by Stewart and Augsberger titled = "The Pennsylvania, The Eastern Lines". Can any one confirm if the = Schuylkill branch and/or the Bel Del are included in this book? How = many pages are dedicated to each? Jeff Smith Manheim, PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 18:22:08 -0800 (PST) From: Angela Sutton Subject: [PRR] division / region lettering on cabins From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] division / region lettering on cabins Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 22:06:30 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at paonline.com Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Angela, >From the paint diagrams in the December 1974 Keystone, the notes on several of them state: Assigned place has been changed from "Div." to "Region", Dec 13, 1940. Jack Consoli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela Sutton" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 9:22 PM Subject: [PRR] division / region lettering on cabins > List, > I've been curious for a while about cabin lettering practices for identifying region and division assignments. The photos I've seen mostly show lettering for regions, though some c. 1940 shots show division instead. Was there an official description of what information was to be shown here, and how might cabins have been lettered in the late '40's? > > Thanks! > > Angela > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 00:15:47 EST Subject: [PRR] Ashland Avenue, Chicago X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 2/1/2005 4:16:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: Message: 1 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 12:13:09 -0800 (PST) From: John Chester Subject: Re: Re: Tickets I recall in the 60's the CJ YM at Ashland Ave. yard stating that all 21 RRs came there to interchange. As I recall most interchanges were one way affairs. Must have been wild. Jack C. Jack, I'm sure it's explained by a combination of the Chicago Junction's location at a nexus of east and west railroads, plus the captive industrial complex there (I'm no longer sure if the name was "Central Manufacturing District" or some other moniker), plus proximity to the stockyards -- but this fact is a grabber. For those not familiar, one durable fixture of PRR, PC, and CR Arranged Freight Schedules was a train out of Ashland Avenue and east over the Pennsy to the east coast. Dare I assume that this traffic was built upon a combination of Chicago meat packing and western-road meat/perishables? (roll those reefers, Jim) Bottom line, an impressive cog in the Pennsy's machinery, especially considering that the Chicago Junction and Chicago River & Indiana guys were longtime NYC-owned operations. ..............................................Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky .....................................................Building a new PRR Buckeye Division .............................................................in HO from Columbus to Xenia, 1966-1968 ...................................................................I'm really looking forward to operating again. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 00:15:47 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Ashland Avenue, Chicago In a message dated 2/1/2005 4:16:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: Message: 1 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 12:13:09 -0800 (PST) From: John Chester Subject: Re: Re: Tickets I recall in the 60's the CJ YM at Ashland Ave. yard stating that all 21 RRs came there to interchange. As I recall most interchanges were one way affairs. Must have been wild. Jack C. Jack, I'm sure it's explained by a combination of the Chicago Junction's location at a nexus of east and west railroads, plus the captive industrial complex there (I'm no longer sure if the name was "Central Manufacturing District" or some other moniker), plus proximity to the stockyards -- but this fact is a grabber. For those not familiar, one durable fixture of PRR, PC, and CR Arranged Freight Schedules was a train out of Ashland Avenue and east over the Pennsy to the east coast. Dare I assume that this traffic was built upon a combination of Chicago meat packing and western-road meat/perishables? (roll those reefers, Jim) Bottom line, an impressive cog in the Pennsy's machinery, especially considering that the Chicago Junction and Chicago River & Indiana guys were longtime NYC-owned operations. ..............................................Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky .....................................................Building a new PRR Buckeye Division .............................................................in HO from Columbus to Xenia, 1966-1968 ...................................................................I'm really looking forward to operating again. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Rcy2bD/UOnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] division / region lettering on cabins Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 06:42:49 -0500 To: Angela Sutton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Feb 1, 2005, at 9:22 PM, Angela Sutton wrote: > I've been curious for a while about cabin lettering practices for > identifying region and division assignments. The photos I've seen > mostly show lettering for regions, though some c. 1940 shots show > division instead. Was there an official description of what > information was to be shown here, and how might cabins have been > lettered in the late '40's? Regions replaced Divisions as the organization entity as of 1956. See http://kc.pennsyrr.com/docs/ for more information on corporate structure. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] Ashland Avenue, Chicago Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 06:55:11 -0600 Message-ID: <2261A19CD8CAD8449EFD62CAA311A748B473FD@EXCHANGE.herzogcompanies.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] Ashland Avenue, Chicago Thread-Index: AcUI5qqJR22CFbLgTE+Haqsgdk2AywAPtyiA From: "Bill Volkmer" To: , , , , Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com If you are talking about the 59th Street yard which laid between Ashland and Western, there was a connecting track that ran parallel to 59th Street over to the 55th Street yard. The track from 59th St south was known as the=20 "Panhandle" and went to Logansport.=20 There was a hump just below 63rd Street where a Lima LS25 did the honors most of the time. When the LS25 was "sick" an H-20-44 filled in. We sent interchange with PRR power to the CNW at Damen Ave. and to the Outer Belt line. I seem to remember the B&O and NKP brought cars to us. The BRRC distributed most of the interchange to the western roads. The CJ was at a place we used to refer to as "the freezers". They had a fleet of Lima switchers. They would get the reefers off the western roads, put them into the "freezers" where vegetable brokers would open the cars and squeeze the lettuce. Then the CJ would give them to us for forwarding to the east coast destinations. The brokers would then phone their counterparts in Philadelphia and New York and recommend what to bid on the car based on their inspections in Chicago. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of RickTipton@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 12:16 AM To: PRR@yahoogroups.com; PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com; sthipes@hotmail.com Subject: [PRR] Ashland Avenue, Chicago In a message dated 2/1/2005 4:16:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20 PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: Message: 1 =20 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 12:13:09 -0800 (PST) From: John Chester Subject: Re: Re: Tickets I recall in the 60's the CJ YM at Ashland Ave. yard stating that all 21 RRs=20 came there to interchange. As I recall most interchanges were one way affairs.=20 Must have been wild. Jack C. Jack, I'm sure it's explained by a combination of the Chicago Junction's location=20 at a nexus of east and west railroads, plus the captive industrial complex=20 there (I'm no longer sure if the name was "Central Manufacturing District" or some=20 other moniker), plus proximity to the stockyards -- but this fact is a=20 grabber. For those not familiar, one durable fixture of PRR, PC, and CR Arranged=20 Freight Schedules was a train out of Ashland Avenue and east over the Pennsy to the=20 east coast. Dare I assume that this traffic was built upon a combination of=20 Chicago meat packing and western-road meat/perishables? (roll those reefers,=20 Jim) Bottom line, an impressive cog in the Pennsy's machinery, especially=20 considering that the Chicago Junction and Chicago River & Indiana guys were longtime=20 NYC-owned operations. ..............................................Rick Tipton - Louisville=20 Kentucky .....................................................Building a new PRR=20 Buckeye Division .............................................................in HO from=20 Columbus to Xenia, 1966-1968 ...................................................................I'm really=20 looking forward to operating again. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: [PRR] BLI K7a's Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 09:38:58 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I got my stock cars yesterday and ran them last night. As previously reported there is good news and bad news. The good news is that the car body itself appears to be very well done. It has separately applied ladders and grabs, but he end grabs on the end sill appear to be cast on and the ladders seem to me to stand off too much. The bad news is the trucks. They roll well enough. I ran the four car in a 17 car freight of mostly stock cars (kit bashed K8s, Mathers, and CV NP cars). They operated flawlessly, but the trucks look pretty poor. The Bowser 2D-F12s are far better. However, a truck swap is VERRY difficult! In their wisdom BLI decided that they could design a better tuck mounting than the usual 2-56 screw. As a result they have screwed everyone ;-) The truck is a one-piece casting with a large diameter tube on top of the bolster which fits, and is keyed into a mating deep hole in the floor with a post in the center to which the truck is screwed. It is held in place by a very small diameter screw with a very broad pan head. The screw is too short to hold any other truck securely and an ordinary 0-80 screw does not have a head large enough to avoid falling through the bolster hole of an NMRA standard truck, such as the Bowser. I found 2 broad head 0-80 (or metric stand-ins) screws in my junk screw bin. I used them and a very thin washer to mount a pair of Bowser trucks with IM code 88 wheels on one of the cars. I don't know where I will be able to find similar screws for the other three cars, but at $25 per car, I should not have to put up with this sort of thing! I wish that BLI had a) used a truck mounting compatible with almost everyone else in the hobby, and b) spent less money on the fancy plastic box now in my trash, and more on the truck appearance. regards, Andy Miller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Park Varieties" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K7a's Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 10:08:30 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com 1-72 screws also will work in mounting Bowser trucks. Frank Brua ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Miller" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 9:38 AM Subject: [PRR] BLI K7a's >I got my stock cars yesterday and ran them last night. As previously > reported there is good news and bad news. The good news is that the car > body itself appears to be very well done. It has separately applied > ladders > and grabs, but he end grabs on the end sill appear to be cast on and the > ladders seem to me to stand off too much. > > The bad news is the trucks. They roll well enough. I ran the four car in > a > 17 car freight of mostly stock cars (kit bashed K8s, Mathers, and CV NP > cars). They operated flawlessly, but the trucks look pretty poor. The > Bowser 2D-F12s are far better. However, a truck swap is VERRY difficult! > In their wisdom BLI decided that they could design a better tuck mounting > than the usual 2-56 screw. As a result they have screwed everyone ;-) > The > truck is a one-piece casting with a large diameter tube on top of the > bolster which fits, and is keyed into a mating deep hole in the floor with > a > post in the center to which the truck is screwed. It is held in place by > a > very small diameter screw with a very broad pan head. The screw is too > short to hold any other truck securely and an ordinary 0-80 screw does not > have a head large enough to avoid falling through the bolster hole of an > NMRA standard truck, such as the Bowser. I found 2 broad head 0-80 (or > metric stand-ins) screws in my junk screw bin. I used them and a very > thin > washer to mount a pair of Bowser trucks with IM code 88 wheels on one of > the > cars. I don't know where I will be able to find similar screws for the > other three cars, but at $25 per car, I should not have to put up with > this > sort of thing! I wish that BLI had a) used a truck mounting compatible > with almost everyone else in the hobby, and b) spent less money on the > fancy > plastic box now in my trash, and more on the truck appearance. > > regards, > > Andy Miller > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Peters" Subject: Re: [PRR] Ashland Avenue, Chicago Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 10:24:43 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I ran on the BRC 1993-94. They had a 900Pm job that took a drag to Ashland every night via the BOCT and returned via the CWI .........a loop as it was, turning the engine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Volkmer" To: ; ; ; ; Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 7:55 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] Ashland Avenue, Chicago If you are talking about the 59th Street yard which laid between Ashland and Western, there was a connecting track that ran parallel to 59th Street over to the 55th Street yard. The track from 59th St south was known as the "Panhandle" and went to Logansport. There was a hump just below 63rd Street where a Lima LS25 did the honors most of the time. When the LS25 was "sick" an H-20-44 filled in. We sent interchange with PRR power to the CNW at Damen Ave. and to the Outer Belt line. I seem to remember the B&O and NKP brought cars to us. The BRRC distributed most of the interchange to the western roads. The CJ was at a place we used to refer to as "the freezers". They had a fleet of Lima switchers. They would get the reefers off the western roads, put them into the "freezers" where vegetable brokers would open the cars and squeeze the lettuce. Then the CJ would give them to us for forwarding to the east coast destinations. The brokers would then phone their counterparts in Philadelphia and New York and recommend what to bid on the car based on their inspections in Chicago. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of RickTipton@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 12:16 AM To: PRR@yahoogroups.com; PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com; sthipes@hotmail.com Subject: [PRR] Ashland Avenue, Chicago In a message dated 2/1/2005 4:16:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: Message: 1 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 12:13:09 -0800 (PST) From: John Chester Subject: Re: Re: Tickets I recall in the 60's the CJ YM at Ashland Ave. yard stating that all 21 RRs came there to interchange. As I recall most interchanges were one way affairs. Must have been wild. Jack C. Jack, I'm sure it's explained by a combination of the Chicago Junction's location at a nexus of east and west railroads, plus the captive industrial complex there (I'm no longer sure if the name was "Central Manufacturing District" or some other moniker), plus proximity to the stockyards -- but this fact is a grabber. For those not familiar, one durable fixture of PRR, PC, and CR Arranged Freight Schedules was a train out of Ashland Avenue and east over the Pennsy to the east coast. Dare I assume that this traffic was built upon a combination of Chicago meat packing and western-road meat/perishables? (roll those reefers, Jim) Bottom line, an impressive cog in the Pennsy's machinery, especially considering that the Chicago Junction and Chicago River & Indiana guys were longtime NYC-owned operations. ..............................................Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky .....................................................Building a new PRR Buckeye Division .............................................................in HO from Columbus to Xenia, 1966-1968 ...................................................................I'm really looking forward to operating again. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bruce Smith Subject: [PRR] Re: BLI K7a's Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 09:41:29 -0600 To: "" , STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "'PRR-Talk' LIST" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Feb 2, 2005, at 8:38 AM, Andy Miller wrote (on PRR-talk & PRR-Modeling): > I got my stock cars yesterday and ran them last night. As previously > reported there is good news and bad news. The good news is that the > car > body itself appears to be very well done. It has separately applied > ladders > and grabs, but he end grabs on the end sill appear to be cast on Actually, most (between 2/3 and 3/4) of the grabs on mine were pulled so tightly to the sides that they were "painted on" to the sides and ends. This appears to be because BLI's assemblers just pull the grab all the way in and then bend it, rather than use a spacing jig to get the grab offset correct. I'll probably want to reset most of them, if not all and then fix the paint. > and the ladders seem to me to stand off too much. I was ready to take BLI to task for this, but a closer examination of photos of the REAL car show the same stand off. It is much less noticeable once the car is weathered. Also, the paint on these cars flakes off very easily. Any handling at all and the ladders start shedding, and the door tracks are just as bad. > > The bad news is the trucks. > In their wisdom BLI decided that they could design a better tuck > mounting > than the usual 2-56 screw. As a result they have screwed everyone ;-) > The > truck is a one-piece casting with a large diameter tube on top of the > bolster which fits, and is keyed into a mating deep hole in the floor > with a > post in the center to which the truck is screwed. I finally realized that BLI must have come up with this ...ahem... "idea" so that they wouldn't have to teach their assemblers about polarity. The keyed lug assures that the two trucks go in with opposite polarities if all the trucks are assembled with insulated wheels on the same side. Remember that this car is supposed to oink (it should NEVER moo, unless you remove the upper deck, which BLI has CAST into the sides... argggggh) > I wish that BLI had a) used a truck mounting compatible > with almost everyone else in the hobby, and b) spent less money on the > fancy > plastic box now in my trash, and more on the truck appearance. I snipped Andy comments on replacing the truck with the Bowser 2d-F12, but as he did, I found that this can be done. It required about 0.06" of homemade styrene washers to get the car to the correct height on my Kadee gauge. I made these with a paper punch and 0.010" styrene that I then drilled holes in the middle to fit over the BLI bolster. I also filled the "moat" around the bolster with putty first, to better support the washers. BTW, look for a review of this car by Ben Hom in TKM (either the Feb or March issue IIRC) and I'm working on an article on improvements to the car already Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Peters" Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 10:24:43 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Ashland Avenue, Chicago I ran on the BRC 1993-94. They had a 900Pm job that took a drag to Ashland every night via the BOCT and returned via the CWI .........a loop as it was, turning the engine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Volkmer" To: ; ; ; ; Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 7:55 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] Ashland Avenue, Chicago If you are talking about the 59th Street yard which laid between Ashland and Western, there was a connecting track that ran parallel to 59th Street over to the 55th Street yard. The track from 59th St south was known as the "Panhandle" and went to Logansport. There was a hump just below 63rd Street where a Lima LS25 did the honors most of the time. When the LS25 was "sick" an H-20-44 filled in. We sent interchange with PRR power to the CNW at Damen Ave. and to the Outer Belt line. I seem to remember the B&O and NKP brought cars to us. The BRRC distributed most of the interchange to the western roads. The CJ was at a place we used to refer to as "the freezers". They had a fleet of Lima switchers. They would get the reefers off the western roads, put them into the "freezers" where vegetable brokers would open the cars and squeeze the lettuce. Then the CJ would give them to us for forwarding to the east coast destinations. The brokers would then phone their counterparts in Philadelphia and New York and recommend what to bid on the car based on their inspections in Chicago. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of RickTipton@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 12:16 AM To: PRR@yahoogroups.com; PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com; sthipes@hotmail.com Subject: [PRR] Ashland Avenue, Chicago In a message dated 2/1/2005 4:16:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: Message: 1 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 12:13:09 -0800 (PST) From: John Chester Subject: Re: Re: Tickets I recall in the 60's the CJ YM at Ashland Ave. yard stating that all 21 RRs came there to interchange. As I recall most interchanges were one way affairs. Must have been wild. Jack C. Jack, I'm sure it's explained by a combination of the Chicago Junction's location at a nexus of east and west railroads, plus the captive industrial complex there (I'm no longer sure if the name was "Central Manufacturing District" or some other moniker), plus proximity to the stockyards -- but this fact is a grabber. For those not familiar, one durable fixture of PRR, PC, and CR Arranged Freight Schedules was a train out of Ashland Avenue and east over the Pennsy to the east coast. Dare I assume that this traffic was built upon a combination of Chicago meat packing and western-road meat/perishables? (roll those reefers, Jim) Bottom line, an impressive cog in the Pennsy's machinery, especially considering that the Chicago Junction and Chicago River & Indiana guys were longtime NYC-owned operations. Rick Tipton ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/EpW3eD/3MnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Park Varieties" Subject: [PRR] Re: [STMFC] Re: BLI K7a's Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 11:26:35 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com ALL of the cars in the four-pack I put aside for myself have the grab = irons pulled tight against the body. Not too difficult to get into body = but indeed be prepared to have the paint flake off the ladders from the = handling. Some of the grabs also broke off as I was rebending them. = Polly Scale Special Oxide Red is a pretty goood match for the BLI paint. Rolling qualities of the trucks in my four-pack varied from crap to = pretty decent. Frank Brua ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bruce Smith=20 To: ; STMFC@yahoogroups.com ; = 'PRR-Talk' LIST=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 10:41 AM Subject: [STMFC] Re: BLI K7a's On Feb 2, 2005, at 8:38 AM, Andy Miller wrote (on PRR-talk &=20 PRR-Modeling): > I got my stock cars yesterday and ran them last night. As = previously > reported there is good news and bad news. The good news is that the = > car > body itself appears to be very well done. It has separately applied = > ladders > and grabs, but he end grabs on the end sill appear to be cast on Actually, most (between 2/3 and 3/4) of the grabs on mine were pulled=20 so tightly to the sides that they were "painted on" to the sides and=20 ends. This appears to be because BLI's assemblers just pull the grab = all the way in and then bend it, rather than use a spacing jig to get=20 the grab offset correct. I'll probably want to reset most of them, if = not all and then fix the paint. > and the ladders seem to me to stand off too much. I was ready to take BLI to task for this, but a closer examination of=20 photos of the REAL car show the same stand off. It is much less=20 noticeable once the car is weathered. Also, the paint on these cars=20 flakes off very easily. Any handling at all and the ladders start=20 shedding, and the door tracks are just as bad. > > The bad news is the trucks. > In their wisdom BLI decided that they could design a better tuck=20 > mounting > than the usual 2-56 screw. As a result they have screwed everyone = ;-)=20 > The > truck is a one-piece casting with a large diameter tube on top of = the > bolster which fits, and is keyed into a mating deep hole in the = floor=20 > with a > post in the center to which the truck is screwed. I finally realized that BLI must have come up with this ...ahem...=20 "idea" so that they wouldn't have to teach their assemblers about=20 polarity. The keyed lug assures that the two trucks go in with=20 opposite polarities if all the trucks are assembled with insulated=20 wheels on the same side. Remember that this car is supposed to oink=20 (it should NEVER moo, unless you remove the upper deck, which BLI has=20 CAST into the sides... argggggh) > I wish that BLI had a) used a truck mounting compatible > with almost everyone else in the hobby, and b) spent less money on = the=20 > fancy > plastic box now in my trash, and more on the truck appearance. I snipped Andy comments on replacing the truck with the Bowser 2d-F12, = but as he did, I found that this can be done. It required about 0.06" = of homemade styrene washers to get the car to the correct height on my = Kadee gauge. I made these with a paper punch and 0.010" styrene that = I=20 then drilled holes in the middle to fit over the BLI bolster. I also=20 filled the "moat" around the bolster with putty first, to better=20 support the washers. BTW, look for a review of this car by Ben Hom in TKM (either the Feb = or=20 March issue IIRC) and I'm working on an article on improvements to the = car already Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin=20 Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/ =20 b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: STMFC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com =20 c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of = Service.=20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: [PRR] RE: [STMFC] Re: BLI K7a's Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 11:30:36 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-index: AcUJPjfg3feOSZOSQduknUCg5k9MBwABgCpQ In-reply-to: <54b2e8b80f2c9f3ed3bd507152bdfc0f@vetmed.auburn.edu> Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Bruce, Your observation about the need to maintain polarity for the sound version is a good one. I wonder how many of the strange features of these trucks are a "sound" idea? Are these cars the unsound version ;-) regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Smith [mailto:smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu] Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 10:41 AM To: ; STMFC@yahoogroups.com; 'PRR-Talk' LIST Subject: [STMFC] Re: BLI K7a's On Feb 2, 2005, at 8:38 AM, Andy Miller wrote (on PRR-talk & PRR-Modeling): > I got my stock cars yesterday and ran them last night. As previously > reported there is good news and bad news. The good news is that the > car body itself appears to be very well done. It has separately > applied ladders and grabs, but he end grabs on the end sill appear to > be cast on Actually, most (between 2/3 and 3/4) of the grabs on mine were pulled so tightly to the sides that they were "painted on" to the sides and ends. This appears to be because BLI's assemblers just pull the grab all the way in and then bend it, rather than use a spacing jig to get the grab offset correct. I'll probably want to reset most of them, if not all and then fix the paint. > and the ladders seem to me to stand off too much. I was ready to take BLI to task for this, but a closer examination of photos of the REAL car show the same stand off. It is much less noticeable once the car is weathered. Also, the paint on these cars flakes off very easily. Any handling at all and the ladders start shedding, and the door tracks are just as bad. > > The bad news is the trucks. > In their wisdom BLI decided that they could design a better tuck > mounting than the usual 2-56 screw. As a result they have screwed > everyone ;-) The truck is a one-piece casting with a large diameter > tube on top of the bolster which fits, and is keyed into a mating deep > hole in the floor with a post in the center to which the truck is > screwed. I finally realized that BLI must have come up with this ...ahem... "idea" so that they wouldn't have to teach their assemblers about polarity. The keyed lug assures that the two trucks go in with opposite polarities if all the trucks are assembled with insulated wheels on the same side. Remember that this car is supposed to oink (it should NEVER moo, unless you remove the upper deck, which BLI has CAST into the sides... argggggh) > I wish that BLI had a) used a truck mounting compatible with almost > everyone else in the hobby, and b) spent less money on the fancy > plastic box now in my trash, and more on the truck appearance. I snipped Andy comments on replacing the truck with the Bowser 2d-F12, but as he did, I found that this can be done. It required about 0.06" of homemade styrene washers to get the car to the correct height on my Kadee gauge. I made these with a paper punch and 0.010" styrene that I then drilled holes in the middle to fit over the BLI bolster. I also filled the "moat" around the bolster with putty first, to better support the washers. BTW, look for a review of this car by Ben Hom in TKM (either the Feb or March issue IIRC) and I'm working on an article on improvements to the car already Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Help save the life of a child. Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's 'Thanks & Giving.' http://us.click.yahoo.com/6iY7fA/5WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/9MtolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: STMFC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: [PRR] RE: [STMFC] Re: BLI K7a's Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 11:40:43 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-index: AcUJRAB05A8vO0KgREmjF45dGpwwZwAAPqrA In-reply-to: <003701c50943$f77313a0$a24656d8@FBRUA> Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com All four of my K7a's rolled well. But that is irrelevant since the truck will all be replaced with Bowser 2D-F12s anyway. On further note, how often did a train consist of mixed animals? These K7a's have the upper deck, indicating they carried smaller animals, pigs or sheep. Other stock car models don't show an upper deck and presumably were for cattle. Would pigs and cattle be handled in the same train? How did they arrange the unloading for feed and water? I realize that in PRR NF trains this was not supposed to be an issue, but if the train ran late, they might need an emergency stop for feed and water. Another question - were the upper decks stored somewhere if not in use? Was it on the car itself? Or were the cars in dedicated service for a particular shipper or animal type and conversion from single to double deck or vice-versa, was very unlikely. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: Park Varieties [mailto:parkvarieties@provide.net] Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 11:27 AM To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com; PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com; 'PRR-Talk' LIST Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: BLI K7a's ALL of the cars in the four-pack I put aside for myself have the grab irons pulled tight against the body. Not too difficult to get into body but indeed be prepared to have the paint flake off the ladders from the handling. Some of the grabs also broke off as I was rebending them. Polly Scale Special Oxide Red is a pretty goood match for the BLI paint. Rolling qualities of the trucks in my four-pack varied from crap to pretty decent. Frank Brua ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce Smith To: ; STMFC@yahoogroups.com ; 'PRR-Talk' LIST Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 10:41 AM Subject: [STMFC] Re: BLI K7a's On Feb 2, 2005, at 8:38 AM, Andy Miller wrote (on PRR-talk & PRR-Modeling): > I got my stock cars yesterday and ran them last night. As previously > reported there is good news and bad news. The good news is that the > car > body itself appears to be very well done. It has separately applied > ladders > and grabs, but he end grabs on the end sill appear to be cast on Actually, most (between 2/3 and 3/4) of the grabs on mine were pulled so tightly to the sides that they were "painted on" to the sides and ends. This appears to be because BLI's assemblers just pull the grab all the way in and then bend it, rather than use a spacing jig to get the grab offset correct. I'll probably want to reset most of them, if not all and then fix the paint. > and the ladders seem to me to stand off too much. I was ready to take BLI to task for this, but a closer examination of photos of the REAL car show the same stand off. It is much less noticeable once the car is weathered. Also, the paint on these cars flakes off very easily. Any handling at all and the ladders start shedding, and the door tracks are just as bad. > > The bad news is the trucks. > In their wisdom BLI decided that they could design a better tuck > mounting > than the usual 2-56 screw. As a result they have screwed everyone ;-) > The > truck is a one-piece casting with a large diameter tube on top of the > bolster which fits, and is keyed into a mating deep hole in the floor > with a > post in the center to which the truck is screwed. I finally realized that BLI must have come up with this ...ahem... "idea" so that they wouldn't have to teach their assemblers about polarity. The keyed lug assures that the two trucks go in with opposite polarities if all the trucks are assembled with insulated wheels on the same side. Remember that this car is supposed to oink (it should NEVER moo, unless you remove the upper deck, which BLI has CAST into the sides... argggggh) > I wish that BLI had a) used a truck mounting compatible > with almost everyone else in the hobby, and b) spent less money on the > fancy > plastic box now in my trash, and more on the truck appearance. I snipped Andy comments on replacing the truck with the Bowser 2d-F12, but as he did, I found that this can be done. It required about 0.06" of homemade styrene washers to get the car to the correct height on my Kadee gauge. I made these with a paper punch and 0.010" styrene that I then drilled holes in the middle to fit over the BLI bolster. I also filled the "moat" around the bolster with putty first, to better support the washers. BTW, look for a review of this car by Ben Hom in TKM (either the Feb or March issue IIRC) and I'm working on an article on improvements to the car already Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: STMFC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Give the gift of life to a sick child. Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's 'Thanks & Giving.' http://us.click.yahoo.com/5iY7fA/6WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/9MtolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: STMFC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 13:26:52 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Broadway Limited Announced in Brass in N Scale From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <02A9489E-7548-11D9-916E-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Railway Classics has announced they are going to do the 1938 Broadway Limited in brass in N scale. It will feature an 8 car main set (two sets of names/numbers) and a 4 car add-on set (two sets of names/numbers). The builder will be Ajin Precision and they will feature interior walls, tinted glass, and MicroTrains couplers. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 17:36:08 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Ashland Avenue, Chicago X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Bill, My previous post was concerning Chicago Junction's Ashland Avenue Yard, a bit west of the Pennsy yards you were mentioning. You are describing PRR's 59th Street Yard, which was the west (and from here north) main Chicago terminal of the Panhandle route, which went to St. Louis, Louisville, Cincinnati, Columbus, and yes, Pittsburgh. PRR's 55th Street was the western terminal of the Fort Wayne line (direct to Pittsburgh), and yes, the two yards were connected by the "EC." However, for really hot traffic out of Chicago, and to handle some high-volume western connections, PRR also originated trains at other points. I believe one of these was IHB's Blue Island Yard, and another was CJ's Ashland Avenue. Never mind that these were NYC affiliates -- that's where the traffic came from onto the Pennsy. In a message dated 2/2/2005 8:00:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com writes: If you are talking about the 59th Street yard which laid between Ashland and Western, there was a connecting track that ran parallel to 59th Street over to the 55th Street yard. The track from 59th St south was known as the "Panhandle" and went to Logansport. There was a hump just below 63rd Street where a Lima LS25 did the honors most of the time. When the LS25 was "sick" an H-20-44 filled in. We sent interchange with PRR power to the CNW at Damen Ave. and to the Outer Belt line. I seem to remember the B&O and NKP brought cars to us. The BRRC distributed most of the interchange to the western roads. The CJ was at a place we used to refer to as "the freezers". They had a fleet of Lima switchers. They would get the reefers off the western roads, put them into the "freezers" where vegetable brokers would open the cars and squeeze the lettuce. Then the CJ would give them to us for forwarding to the east coast destinations. The brokers would then phone their counterparts in Philadelphia and New York and recommend what to bid on the car based on their inspections in Chicago. ..............................................Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky .....................................................Building a new PRR Buckeye Division .............................................................in HO from Columbus to Xenia, 1966-1968 ...................................................................I'm really looking forward to operating again. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Ashland Avenue, Chicago Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 18:05:41 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com List, PRR also had freights originating at Colehour - traffic interchanged at Grand Crossing, Ill., (off IC for example) went via Colehour. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; ; ; Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Ashland Avenue, Chicago > Bill, > > My previous post was concerning Chicago Junction's Ashland Avenue Yard, a > bit > west of the Pennsy yards you were mentioning. > > You are describing PRR's 59th Street Yard, which was the west (and from > here > north) main Chicago terminal of the Panhandle route, which went to St. > Louis, > Louisville, Cincinnati, Columbus, and yes, Pittsburgh. PRR's 55th Street > was > the western terminal of the Fort Wayne line (direct to Pittsburgh), and > yes, > the two yards were connected by the "EC." > > However, for really hot traffic out of Chicago, and to handle some > high-volume western connections, PRR also originated trains at other > points. I believe > one of these was IHB's Blue Island Yard, and another was CJ's Ashland > Avenue. > Never mind that these were NYC affiliates -- that's where the traffic came > from onto the Pennsy. > > In a message dated 2/2/2005 8:00:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, > bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com writes: > If you are talking about the 59th Street yard which laid between Ashland > and Western, there was a connecting track that ran parallel to 59th > Street over to the 55th Street yard. The track from 59th St south was > known as the > "Panhandle" and went to Logansport. > > There was a hump just below 63rd Street where a Lima LS25 did the honors > most of the time. When the LS25 was "sick" an H-20-44 filled in. We > sent interchange with PRR power to the CNW at Damen Ave. and to the > Outer Belt line. I seem to remember the B&O and NKP brought cars to us. > The BRRC distributed most of the interchange to the western roads. The > CJ was at a place we used to refer to as "the freezers". They had a > fleet of Lima switchers. They would get the reefers off the western > roads, put them into the "freezers" where vegetable brokers would open > the cars and squeeze the lettuce. Then the CJ would give them to us for > forwarding to the east coast destinations. > > The brokers would then phone their counterparts in Philadelphia and New > York and recommend what to bid on the car based on their inspections in > Chicago. > > ..............................................Rick Tipton - Louisville > Kentucky > .....................................................Building a new PRR > Buckeye Division > .............................................................in HO from > Columbus to Xenia, 1966-1968 > ...................................................................I'm > really > looking forward to operating again. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RYagodich@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 18:49:48 EST Subject: [PRR] ECW Discussion Revisited Content-Language: en X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com =20 I couldn=E2=80=99t help but enjoy the recent exchange concerning the controv= ersy, =20 that started over the question about how to contact Eastern Car Works. The f= orum=20 membership seemed to have touched on a number of topics in that discussion.= =20 (Boy, I=E2=80=99ll bet the person who asked the original question never expe= cted or =20 intended to start such a ruckus.) Though tempers flared, some very good poin= ts=20 were brought out and some stupid things were said. Let me summarize.=20 *Point Number One. Some of the folks on this forum take themselves way to =20 seriously. Though you may not intend it, you come across as pompous jerks wh= o =20 only participate because you enjoy hearing yourself pontificate and expound=20= on =20 any and every subject PRR. (I repeat, you may not intend to come across that= =20 way, but trust me, you do.)=20 *Point Number Two. You probably need to lighten up on the criticism heaped=20 on the commercial manufacturers, both present and in the past, who build PR= R=20 models out there. We need those large, medium and small companies and =E2= =80=9CMom and=20 Pop=E2=80=9D shops that have been in it for the long haul working their tail= s off to =20 support us. I=E2=80=99ll bet they are doing the best they can with the infor= mation=20 they have or had available at the time and don=E2=80=99t appreciate all the= criticism=20 and nitpicking. Besides, once you=E2=80=99ve pissed off all of the US manuf= acturers=20 and BLI goes under because they saturated the US market, whom are you going= to=20 have then to turn to?=20 A lot of that equipment that the manufacturers made way back then (Though i= t=20 wasn=E2=80=99t quite right for the Pennsy.), still saved us some ugly scrat= ch=20 building and kit bashing projects and ultimately sharpened our modeling ski= lls as a=20 side benefit.=20 *Point Number Three. You folks out there counting all the rivets, =20 criticizing whoever for a missed detail on their new N5C cabin, searching c= onstantly=20 for that elusive freight car color formula or that perfect mix of DGLE, put= =20 down your scale rulers, your photos and your builders drawings, take two st= eps=20 back, a deep breath and relax. Cut yourself and other modelers some slack.=20 Have you ever considered that enough is enough and maybe you need to redire= ct=20 your research efforts into some PRR related task that would have more immed= iate=20 use to yourself and fellow modelers? Have you ever considered that this=20 attention to detail may be driving the manufacturers you hope to support an= d your=20 fellow modelers crazy.=20 Maybe one of the reasons that more modelers don=E2=80=99t show up in the Mod= el Room=20 is because they=E2=80=99re afraid of the criticism that may have to endure f= rom =20 others. I have overheard numerous conversations where self-proclaimed =E2= =80=9Cexperts=E2=80=9D =20 are tearing up someone=E2=80=99s model, yet they have nothing in the model r= oom to show=20 their talent. Might be nice to show a little kindness.=20 I probably have some other relevant comments, but I=E2=80=99m sticking with= what I=20 consider the most important suggestions for improvement. =20 The above opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of Jerry =20 Britton or anyone affiliated with Jerry=E2=80=99s site. Thanks for your at= tention.=20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6556.0 Subject: RE: [PRR] ECW Discussion Revisited Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 19:10:48 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] ECW Discussion Revisited Thread-Index: AcUJgr3Wg/HBJZ9dRBe+pZoaHOa0OQAAO/eg From: "Owens, David" To: Return-Path: DOwens@courant.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Feb 2005 00:10:48.0883 (UTC) FILETIME=[D087F030:01C50984] Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. 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From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Re: [PRR] ECW Discussion Revisited Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 19:15:25 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.81, clamav-milter version 0.81b on net.bluemoon.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I've spent a lot of time in model rooms at PRRH&TS conventions and I have yet to experience anyone tearing into another modeler's model. When I do hear criticism it is usually from the modelers themselves pointing out the flaws in their model or what they would do differently. I had 6 models at Cincinnati this past year. As to "maybe you need to redirect your research efforts into some PRR related task that would have more immediate use to yourself and fellow modelers?" have you been reading TKM over the past year, lots of good stuff there? Finally, you should sign your posts. Brian J Carlson P.E. Cheektowaga NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 17:36:08 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Ashland Avenue, Chicago Bill, My previous post was concerning Chicago Junction's Ashland Avenue Yard, a bit west of the Pennsy yards you were mentioning. You are describing PRR's 59th Street Yard, which was the west (and from here north) main Chicago terminal of the Panhandle route, which went to St. Louis, Louisville, Cincinnati, Columbus, and yes, Pittsburgh. PRR's 55th Street was the western terminal of the Fort Wayne line (direct to Pittsburgh), and yes, the two yards were connected by the "EC." However, for really hot traffic out of Chicago, and to handle some high-volume western connections, PRR also originated trains at other points. I believe one of these was IHB's Blue Island Yard, and another was CJ's Ashland Avenue. Never mind that these were NYC affiliates -- that's where the traffic came from onto the Pennsy. In a message dated 2/2/2005 8:00:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com writes: If you are talking about the 59th Street yard which laid between Ashland and Western, there was a connecting track that ran parallel to 59th Street over to the 55th Street yard. The track from 59th St south was known as the "Panhandle" and went to Logansport. There was a hump just below 63rd Street where a Lima LS25 did the honors most of the time. When the LS25 was "sick" an H-20-44 filled in. We sent interchange with PRR power to the CNW at Damen Ave. and to the Outer Belt line. I seem to remember the B&O and NKP brought cars to us. The BRRC distributed most of the interchange to the western roads. The CJ was at a place we used to refer to as "the freezers". They had a fleet of Lima switchers. They would get the reefers off the western roads, put them into the "freezers" where vegetable brokers would open the cars and squeeze the lettuce. Then the CJ would give them to us for forwarding to the east coast destinations. The brokers would then phone their counterparts in Philadelphia and New York and recommend what to bid on the car based on their inspections in Chicago. ..............................................Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky .....................................................Building a new PRR Buckeye Division .............................................................in HO from Columbus to Xenia, 1966-1968 ...................................................................I'm really looking forward to operating again. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Tcy2bD/SOnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 20:26:47 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: [STMFC] Re: BLI K7a's X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 2/2/2005 11:51:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: Another question - were the upper decks stored somewhere if not in use? Was it on the car itself? Or were the cars in dedicated service for a particular shipper or animal type and conversion from single to double deck or vice-versa, was very unlikely. Andy, I seem to recall reading somewhere that the floors retracted into the roof. I won't bet my life on my memory though. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hanel29@att.net Subject: [PRR] Sharks - paint removal Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 01:41:17 +0000 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com List - Has anyone suggestions for what to use to strip paint from the Model Power sharks ? Thank you. Hank ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Hom" Subject: [PRR] RE: BLI K7a's Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 20:48:12 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Rich Orr wrote: "I seem to recall reading somewhere that the floors retracted into the roof. I won't bet my life on my memory though." That's certainly true for some convertible deck stock cars; however, these cars usually have some sort of lift or hoist mechanism to lift the upper deck into the roof. The most familiar example to modelers are the NYC stock cars rebuilt from USRA SS boxcars, offered in HO by AHM and Roco in N (seemingly in every scheme EXCEPT NYC - including PRR!). http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-757.jpg Class K7A diagrams and photos show no signs of any lift hardware. Richard Hendrickson stated earlier that the upper deck was built in sections, which facilitated removing it if necessary, though you needed a team of guys at the car shop to "covert" the car from a double deck car. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRTRAINS@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 20:52:02 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Sharks - paint removal X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I use brake fluid with success. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AlbertSR@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 21:11:59 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Sharks - paint removal X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 2/2/05 7:48:42 PM Central Standard Time, hanel29@att.net writes: > List - Has anyone suggestions for what to use to strip paint from the Model > Power sharks ? Hi I stripped my 4 Model Power shells with Pine Sol. Al Stump ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 18:22:37 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: BLI K7a's From: "michael hmel" Subject: Re: [PRR] Sharks - paint removal Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 21:26:48 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hello List ,=20 While on the topic of Sharks ....can anyone point me to a web address of = good Shark pics ? I want to add train phone / antenna's and need to know = the location of and the number of supports ( I count 8 on a pic I have = ) . I have two sets of Keil-line ( O scale ) antenna supports and am = looking for additional set , it appears that they are out of stock , = anyone know of a hobbystore that stocks them ? As always , thanks for any help anyone can give me .=20 Mike Hmel=20 =20 Member : TCA , PRRT&HS Lists : PRR Talk , PC Modeling , Conrail Talk Lionel Collectors , Toytraintrading E-Mail : michaelhmel@netzero.net=20 E-bay : iron*mah =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: To: ; Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 8:52 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Sharks - paint removal > I use brake fluid with success. >=20 > = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. >=20 >=20 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 21:44:07 -0500 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] ECW Discussion Revisited Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Wow! What a disertation! I feel like have been lectured to by a school teacher... Let me say this, you (you didn't sign your post) have the some valid points... Some I agree with, some I don't... Here's some observations I have made in this hobby as a pro-active modeler wishing to help the entire modeling and historical community for the benefit for all ...including the manufactures. 1) I have never attended a modeling meet in the recent past that the promotors haven't ask that you,"please check your EGOS at the door!" I go to plenty... Do you or do you just listen to hear-say? 2) We at the PRRT&HS have a body of folks decicated to the preservation of the PRR in miniature... We are pro-acive with most manufactures in a face to face relationships, albeit mostly over the Internet... If the manufacturer makes the choice to use the services we provide... Some have and we as modelers have reaped the benefits and some are transparent at the wishes of that comapany... 3)We do provide samples of what we believe are the correct colors for the The Keystone Modelers out there to anyone that wishes to make use of them... We don't discriminate to any manufacturer Reagardless of the market they are wishing to service. 4) We realize that this hobby is diverse by nature and we appreciate the guy who "counts rivets" and those that don't and help all regardless. Some of us are of the opinion that if you as a manufacturer want to do it right (and most do) then we can provide what it takes, in most cases, to do just that... without reservation or compensation... If someone needs copies of PRRT&HS valued information such as drawings and such we will provide it and the cost to do so are known to all up front. WE don't look to profit from it just recoup the cost in materials... There is even a corparate Memebership just to help defry some of the cost in the intial reproductions and it doesn't stop there it is also available to the individual at the same cost as a Keystone Member. Pretty fair I would say... Does any other historical society do this? Maybe... Please, take a deep breath and listen to these folks, make a value judgement of where you fit and for Heavens Sake share your hobby with others at whatever modelers meet you can find and relax and again...SHARE just as they do. You will find that there is likely no contest, or score cards and no egos. We all just like to share the PRR in miniature... I don't mean to sound like a snot nosed brat, I'm not... Hey, there is a great modelers meet coming up in Pittsburgh, PA if anyone lives close... GO! participate, enjoy, chat, listen and learn just take a sample of your talent with you and enjoy others... Heck, TAKE PILES OF PRR MODELS we are a powerful group... SHOW IT! Thanks, Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RYagodich@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 22:44:37 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: ECW Discussion Revisited X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi Brian, Not a problem. Like yours, my name is my email address. R Yagodich.(Bob). Regards your experiences in the model room, just not at the right place at the right time I guess. I wasn't able to make Cincinnatti and I would have truly enjoyed seeing your models. Your right, the TKM is a fine publication. My comments were not directed to it. Take care. Bob Yagodich ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] Sharks - paint removal Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 21:43:36 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at paonline.com Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hank, I used brake fluid successfully also, but only leave them in there as short a time as required. I saw a friend wreck a couple by leaving them in it too long. They got all mushy. Jack Consoli ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRRT&HS Talk" Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 8:41 PM Subject: [PRR] Sharks - paint removal > List - Has anyone suggestions for what to use to strip paint from the Model Power sharks ? Thank you. Hank > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 22:08:01 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [PRR] ECW Discussion Revisited From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I am repeatedly mystified as to why we continue to see this type of reaction. The first thing they declare is that someone is telling them how to model. HUH? Since no-one here has criticized another person's modeling I cannot understand where this indignation arises. Then after that, they proceed to tell me how to model! Where I come from, we call that hypocrisy. Unlike RYagodich@aol.com I won't try to assume Jerry's role as listmaster, but I thought that part of the attraction of this list was that products could be evaluated fairly, and that the list benefitted by being educated consumers. In fact, I think the results are clear, as more and more manufacturers are now working with the PRRT&HS to produce the most accurate models on the market. I fail to see how knowledge is a bad thing. Calling somethin"crap" isn't helpful, but I see very very little of that on this list. What I see are accurate assessments of models. Its then up to you to decide if you can live with the compromises. Its funny, but it seems that folks like RYagodich@aol.com get upset, because knowledge means that something they thought was good enough, may no longer be that, IN THEIR MINDS. Personally, I love the challenge of trying to model as accurately as I can, but hey, if that's not your cup of tea, RELAX... but DO NOT TELL ME TO STOP. Sincerely Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL > I couldn’t help but enjoy the recent exchange concerning the > controversy, > that started over the question about how to contact Eastern Car Works. The > forum > membership seemed to have touched on a number of topics in that > discussion. > (Boy, I’ll bet the person who asked the original question never expected > or > intended to start such a ruckus.) Though tempers flared, some very good > points > were brought out and some stupid things were said. Let me summarize. > *Point Number One. Some of the folks on this forum take themselves way to > seriously. Though you may not intend it, you come across as pompous jerks > who > only participate because you enjoy hearing yourself pontificate and > expound on > any and every subject PRR. (I repeat, you may not intend to come across > that > way, but trust me, you do.) > *Point Number Two. You probably need to lighten up on the criticism > heaped > on the commercial manufacturers, both present and in the past, who build > PRR > models out there. We need those large, medium and small companies and > “Mom and > Pop� shops that have been in it for the long haul working their tails > off to > support us. I’ll bet they are doing the best they can with the > information > they have or had available at the time and don’t appreciate all the > criticism > and nitpicking. Besides, once you’ve pissed off all of the US > manufacturers > and BLI goes under because they saturated the US market, whom are you > going to > have then to turn to? > A lot of that equipment that the manufacturers made way back then (Though > it > wasn’t quite right for the Pennsy.), still saved us some ugly scratch > building and kit bashing projects and ultimately sharpened our modeling > skills as a > side benefit. > *Point Number Three. You folks out there counting all the rivets, > criticizing whoever for a missed detail on their new N5C cabin, searching > constantly > for that elusive freight car color formula or that perfect mix of DGLE, > put > down your scale rulers, your photos and your builders drawings, take two > steps > back, a deep breath and relax. Cut yourself and other modelers some > slack. > Have you ever considered that enough is enough and maybe you need to > redirect > your research efforts into some PRR related task that would have more > immediate > use to yourself and fellow modelers? Have you ever considered that this > attention to detail may be driving the manufacturers you hope to support > and your > fellow modelers crazy. > Maybe one of the reasons that more modelers don’t show up in the Model > Room > is because they’re afraid of the criticism that may have to endure from > others. I have overheard numerous conversations where self-proclaimed > “experts� > are tearing up someone’s model, yet they have nothing in the model room > to show > their talent. Might be nice to show a little kindness. > I probably have some other relevant comments, but I’m sticking with > what I > consider the most important suggestions for improvement. > The above opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of Jerry > Britton or anyone affiliated with Jerry’s site. Thanks for your > attention. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <5f64ffe2b48599842b320f7aa5fee633@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Tom Vondruska's Passing Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 06:46:59 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I regret to inform the list that long-time subscriber Tom Vondruska passed away on January 29th, 2005. I was notified by a friend of his. Tom had health issues over the past few years and was a Lines West fan. I'm sorry but I do not have any further details at this time. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Listmaster Subject: LISTMASTER Re: [PRR] ECW Discussion Revisited Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 06:53:04 -0500 To: PRR-talk X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Let's cease discussion on this thread as it serves no useful purpose. Some valid points were raised about ECW last week, including availability (by me, fact), quality (by several, perhaps incidental), etc. I think some of the posts last week escalated a bit out of line. However, restarting a bad thread after a week isn't a real good idea either. Thank you for your cooperation in this regard. ---------------------------------------- Listmaster listmaster@dsop.com Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Park Varieties" Subject: [PRR] Walthrers TT Flat Cars Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 08:05:10 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Has anyone successfully relettered a Walthers Pennsy 75' Truc Train flat = car? I want to repaint the ones I have to a more correct freight car = color but have been unable to locate a suitable decal set if I do so. = Thanks. Frank Brua ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers TT Flat Cars Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 13:32:11 +0000 From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] ECW (New Thread) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 14:14:11 +0000 Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 09:18:29 -0500 From: Oerm2133@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers TT Flat Cars Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I would be interested in probably 12 sets of the decals for TT Flat Cars. Don Luke Tucson, AZ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 09:26:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] ECW (New Thread) From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Thursday, February 3, 2005, at 09:14 AM, Ted Andrews wrote: > Based on the possible news/rumor that ECW cars may not be available, > one concern of mine was the availability of "core car" kits that are > used with Brass Car Sides / Union Station Products / Laser Horizons / > etc. models. Does anyone else make core car kits that can be used for > the above mentioned car sides? Although I have no direct experience, I have heard that the core kits from Train Station Products are decent. They offer both a regular Pullman/ACF kit and a Budd kit. Unfortunately, the two distributors that I use that handle Train Station Products are out of the Pullman/ACF version. oh for two!!! I am indeed hoping ECW comes through with more product. They offered a lot of add-ons that are popular -- window glass, PRR underbody details, etc. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] D78 Diner Question Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 15:37:24 +0000 Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 10:55:38 -0500 From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: [PRR] BLI K7a livestock carried Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com While we all can agree that hogs were transported in the K7a in the double deck configuration, were lambs not also transported in these cars in the double deck setup? There were blocks of lambs in several of the dedicated stock trains of the late 40's and early 50's condigned to Bergens in NY. Based on the relative size of the animals, it would seem more efficient to ship lambs in double deck cars. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Douglas Kirkpatrick" Subject: RE: [PRR] Tom Vondruska's Passing Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 08:08:22 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcUJ5so8SmYj+6i0RE6UyiY6/Fps/QAI4lsg In-Reply-To: <5f64ffe2b48599842b320f7aa5fee633@pennsyrr.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com His obituary can be found at: http://www.ysnews.com/obituaries/index.html Douglas Kirkpatrick (born and raised in Yellow Springs, OH) -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Jerry @ Pennsy Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:47 AM To: PRR-talk Subject: [PRR] Tom Vondruska's Passing I regret to inform the list that long-time subscriber Tom Vondruska passed away on January 29th, 2005. I was notified by a friend of his. Tom had health issues over the past few years and was a Lines West fan. I'm sorry but I do not have any further details at this time. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K7a livestock carried Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:21:21 -0600 To: SUVCWORR@aol.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Feb 3, 2005, at 9:55 AM, SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote: > While we all can agree that hogs were transported in the K7a in the > double deck configuration, were lambs not also transported in these > cars in the double deck setup? There were blocks of lambs in several > of the dedicated stock trains of the late 40's and early 50's > condigned to Bergens in NY. Based on the relative size of the > animals, it would seem more efficient to ship lambs in double deck > cars. > > Rich Orr Rich, Absolutely! For an excellent resource on stock car operations, albeit biased to Santa Fe, see Steve Sandifer's page at: http://users2.ev1.net/~jssand/SFHMS/Sand/Stk/02.htm He notes that a 40' car held 150 feeder sheep (60 lbs) per deck and 125 fattened sheep (90 lbs) per deck. Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 08:40:30 -0800 (PST) From: Philip Taylor Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K7a livestock carried From: "Royce Gossett" Subject: [PRR] Problem with receiving messages Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:49:17 -0600 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Ok, I have done what I am supposed to, but I am still receiving messages = at my old email address, and I am NOT receiving them at my NEW email = address.=20 Please delete my OLD address, jthomasmet@juno.com Please add my NEW address, jthomasmet@verizon.net Thank you, Jeff Thomas Denton, Tx jthomasmet@verizon.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] D78 Diner Question Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 11:54:31 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-index: AcUKBz3u9swByzgzRJ6uhmCPQvNBlAACWTDg In-reply-to: Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com They were very common on the NY-Wash trains. They were upgraded into diner- lounges for many of the lesser long distance trains such as the Clevelender-Akronite. The Keystone did an article on them a long time ago. I recently went to look for it when I wanted to upgrade my old Walthers metal sided car. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Ted Andrews Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 10:37 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] D78 Diner Question Listers: I have 3 of these cars from Bachmann. I am planning on repainting one and modernizing another one using a NKP Car Co. kit. One question is that how and where were these diners used on the Pennsy? >From 1938 on, twin unit diners were the norm on the Blue Ribbon Fleet especially the Broadway, General and Pennsylvainia Limited. With that said, what trains did D78's operate on? How long did the celestrial roofs last on these cars? Did these cars last on the PRR in the 1950's and 1960's? I believe that The Keystone had articles on the D70's and D82's but I don't think an article was done on D78's TIA Ted ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 12:05:09 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] D78 Diner Question From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Thursday, February 3, 2005, at 11:54 AM, Andy Miller wrote: > They were very common on the NY-Wash trains. They were upgraded into > diner- lounges for many of the lesser long distance trains such as the > Clevelender-Akronite. The Keystone did an article on them a long time > ago. > I recently went to look for it when I wanted to upgrade my old Walthers > metal sided car. > ... > One question is that how and where were these diners used on the > Pennsy? > From 1938 on, twin unit diners were the norm on the Blue Ribbon Fleet > especially the Broadway, General and Pennsylvainia Limited. With that > said, > what trains did D78's operate on? How long did the celestrial roofs > last on > these cars? Did these cars last on the PRR in the 1950's and 1960's? The Varnish database on Keystone Crossings has many of the D78 train assignments as of 1954. Go to http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/varnish/ And search on Class starts with d78 You might want to change the results per page from 30 to 100 or so. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Park Varieties" Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers TT Flat Cars Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 12:08:25 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Thanks for the good news/bad news info. You can count me in for 6 sets if you can get them produced. Frank Brua ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers TT Flat Cars > Frank Brua asked: > "Has anyone successfully relettered a Walthers Pennsy 75' Truc Train flat > car? I > want to repaint the ones I have to a more correct freight car color but > have > been unable to locate a suitable decal set if I do so." > > Frank, this is a good news/bad news situation. The good news is Middle > Division set HFL-1 is an outstanding decal set for these cars. Gus > Minardi used them in doing his TrucTrain flats and they look great. The > bad news is they're out of production, and Northern Central Supply has > sold out the last of the stock that they acquired from Nick Seaman. > > I know Gus is looking for more of these sets, and I've got about eight of > these things that need to be upgraded. Anyone else have a need for these > sets? If we can get an idea of the demand, we can start exploring other > options. > > > Ben Hom > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: RE: [PRR] D78 Diner Question Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 17:10:53 +0000 From: "Earl Myers" Subject: [PRR] PRR ops Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 15:37:24 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Gents; This is a new guy's question about freight ops during 1944 in = particular.....=20 My layout is to be an HO version of the Canton District, Central = Region. There was a 4 track mainline, huge yard and PLW type A concrete = roundhouse here then and a big back shop with a transfer = table..........we are right in the middle of the Eastern Division here.=20 If I were on the roof of that big 'ole roundhouse watching what was = going on, would I see N5c Cabins marked Eastern Region zipping westbound = on thru freights or would they have been turned around at Conway? I = guess I am asking where the roaming limits were for freight crews then. = Would I have seen Western region N6b's zipping eastbound thru here or = was Crestline their eastern limit? Anyone know the limits of the Canton = District? If a train was made up here in the yards then headed east or west = bound, since we are in the middle of the Region and 50 miles from Conway = or Crestline, how far would our trusty N5's and N6b's have traveled, = just 50 miles to the limits of this Region/Division? Earl Myers ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 15:40:53 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR ops From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Thursday, February 3, 2005, at 03:37 PM, Earl Myers wrote: > My layout is to be an HO version of the Canton District, Central > Region. There was a 4 track mainline, huge yard and PLW type A > concrete roundhouse here then and a big back shop with a transfer > table..........we are right in the middle of the Eastern Division > here. > > If I were on the roof of that big 'ole roundhouse watching what was > going on, would I see N5c Cabins marked Eastern Region zipping > westbound on thru freights or would they have been turned around at > Conway? I guess I am asking where the roaming limits were for freight > crews then. Would I have seen Western region N6b's zipping eastbound > thru here or was Crestline their eastern limit? Anyone know the limits > of the Canton District? > > If a train was made up here in the yards then headed east or west > bound, since we are in the middle of the Region and 50 miles from > Conway or Cre