Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2005 00:17:16 +1100 From: "Mick Molloy" Subject: [PRR] Happy New Year Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 12:43:51 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: ealauterbach@earthlink.net Subject: [PRR] For Sale O and HO X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I have the following for sale: 1. Westside HO scale M1a. This engine is unpainted and has only a little run time. I removed the front end appliances with the idea of modifying her into a M1b. I have not put these back on, but I will send ship them with the engine! I also will include a correct generator for behind the stack. The original one is grossly oversized. Original box in good condition. Price: $225 2. MTH Railking K4 with PS1 #1361 and set of 6 Raiking Madison passenger cars. These have been shelf queens, so little run time. I did test the engine, and both the engine and sound work fine. All original boxes included. Price: $300 3. MTH Railking Pennsy S2 Turbine with PS1. This is not the small Lionel "bantham" version, but rather the larger Railking Version. Very little run time, she has also been a shelf queen. Original box included. Price $200. Please contact me off list if interested or if you have any questions. Thanks, Eric Lauterbach 770-596-1866 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 09:05:52 -0500 From: WARDJEFFE@cs.com Subject: [PRR] prr freight train symbols. Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com was there a system as to how the pennsy determined freight train symbols, specificly in the 1960s? i would like to use plausable symbols for trains originating on my layout. also how were the local freight symbols determined? thanks jeffery s ward sr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] prr freight train symbols. Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 10:14:48 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hello Jeff: I am doing an article for the Keystone on train operations in the 1965 = so I have done some research on train symbols. My article is based on = the Fort Wayne Division in Indiana so emphasis is given to train symbols = on the western end of the roadroad. The Pennsy had a fragmented and inconsistent system of naming freights. = This is one area where the Standard Railroad of the World, wasn't. From = what I can tell, the Pennsy had 5 basic categories where freight symbols = could fall under: The first train symbols are Commodity-based. Trains like "TT-1" (an = intermodal Truc-Train), "LCL-1" (Less than CarLoad), "FW-8" (Feed Water = livestock), "NF-6" (Non - Feed water livestock) were all named based on = the commodites that they hauled. However, one cannot tell what the = origin and destination of these trains are just by looking at the = symbols The second train symbols were Origin-Destination based. Trains like CB-1 = / CB-2 were Chicago to Boston and CG-2 was Chicago to Greenville. Note = with these train symbols, one can determine the origin and destination = but cannot determine what the train is hauling.=20 The third category are "semi-destination" train symbols. Westbound = trains like WC-5 stood for "Western Connection" trains. Likewise "SWC-1" = trains on the Panhandle were heading for the "SouthWestern Connection". = These trains did not go all of the way to the coast but rather = interchanged with railroads in Chicago and St. Louis that did. Also, one = cannot tell from the symbol on the EXACT origin and destination of the = train. The fourth category were "divisional" trains. These were typically = locals however, the names were not consistent with other divisions. The = Ft. Wayne Division locals were named FW-13, FW 24, etc. Please note that = this is in conflict with the FW-8 live stock train mentioned above. In a = neighboring division, the Logansport Division trains were named with a = "LD-" prefix; I read somewhere that LD stood for "Logansport Dispatch." The last category is "Other". These are trains symbols like GRE-2, CS-8, = AST-1, 2 and AC-1,2, and 4 in which it is not clear on how they got = their names. The symbols apparently stand for something but so far, no = one has uncovered the meaning. I do know that the "AC" trains ran from = PRR and the CB&Q. I believe that the AC trains began in 1960-61 and by = 1965, AC-4 was added. Also, the WC-1 and especially WC-5 trains did have = allot of blocks for the Santa Fe.=20 And were are talking only about the mid-1960's!!! Pick up a number of = ETT's a few years apart and you will see an alphabet soup of train = symbols that come and go as quickly as the sun sets. I hope that this sheds some like on this interesting subject. On Jerry = Britton's web site, he has a few links to Pennsy train symbols; Mark = Bej's "The Broad Way" site is the most extensive for schedules in = 1959-60. Randy Williamson has a great site too; he is adding onto it and = it is getting more and more detailed. His era is in the late 1950's. Please ask if you have any questions.=20 Ted Andrews ----- Original Message -----=20 From: WARDJEFFE@cs.com=20 To: "PRR-Talk"=20 Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 9:05 AM Subject: [PRR] prr freight train symbols. was there a system as to how the pennsy determined freight train = symbols, specificly in the 1960s? i would like to use plausable symbols = for trains originating on my layout. also how were the local freight = symbols determined? thanks jeffery s ward sr = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit = http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Hough " Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 19:12:31 -0600 Subject: [PRR] New PRR Photos From: MLiebeskin@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 11:45:58 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/03/05 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Ken, Just finished watching uoy pictures. Very nice. Happy New Year. cordially, John Liebeskind ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 14:41:20 EST Subject: [PRR] Pass. Diesels X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Did the Pennsy utilize ALCO RS-3 or EMD GP-7 diesels in passenger service? If so, would they have been used on the Schuylkill Br. through Reading, Pa? Believe pass. service through Reading was abolished in the mid 50's. Many thanks, Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] BLI PRR K7 Question Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:17:18 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Jerry and fellow PRR listers: How many numbers has BLI released for this car? I know that there is a = 4-car set but are they have 2 or 3 versions of the 4-car set with = different numbers? I would like to get a number of these since I will be = modeling train FW-8, Man-O-War!! Ted Andrews ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Pass. Diesels Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 14:58:19 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Evan, Actually they used both. I know the Alco RS3's were=20 classed AS16ms, check the Withers book for assignments.=20 RS3's had an extra stack right behind the cab on the=20 shorthood end for the steam machinery. Ditto on the GP7's=20 for the Witehrs book. -John RDG2124@aol.com wrote: > Did the Pennsy utilize ALCO RS-3 or EMD GP-7 diesels in=20 >passenger service? =20 > If so, would they have been used on the Schuylkill Br.=20 >through Reading, Pa? =20 > Believe pass. service through Reading was abolished in=20 >the mid 50's. >=20 > Many thanks, >=20 > Evan Leisey > RCT&HS 346 > PRRT&HS 7487 > PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 > CNJ 2003 >=20 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit=20 >http://lists.dsop.com. >=20 York, PA Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Western Maryland,=20 and Maryalnd & Pennsylvania. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pass. Diesels Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:24:50 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Evan: The answer for both engines is yes. The GP-7's were primarily used on = commuter service in Chicago while the RS-3's were used in commuter = service in Pittsburgh. The Chic. Terminal Div. did a couple of RS-3's is = steam generators. Once in a while, these engines were used in commuter = service but the GP-7's were favored due to their better acceleration. If you have the Withers books on the Alco and EMD 1st generation hood = units, there is more detail on how and where these engines were used. If = you don't have them, let me know and I will look them up for you. Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RDG2124@aol.com=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 2:41 PM Subject: [PRR] Pass. Diesels Did the Pennsy utilize ALCO RS-3 or EMD GP-7 diesels in passenger = service? =20 If so, would they have been used on the Schuylkill Br. through = Reading, Pa? =20 Believe pass. service through Reading was abolished in the mid 50's. Many thanks, Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit = http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:03:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI PRR K7 Question From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Monday, January 3, 2005, at 03:17 PM, Ted Andrews wrote: > How many numbers has BLI released for this car? I know that there is a > 4-car set but are they have 2 or 3 versions of the 4-car set with > different numbers? I would like to get a number of these since I will > be modeling train FW-8, Man-O-War!! My dealer shipment contained numerous four-car sets. Each set was the same four numbers, leading me to believe they have only released four numbers. Besides, had they released more, it would have been very much in their best interest to say so, so as to increase sales. I would expect -- perhaps I shouldn't -- that the two cars with sound (due later this year) will have two additional numbers and will not duplicate those in the four pack. I, too, need to model FW-8. At least you HO guys have a Pennsy K7a option!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:13:14 -0500 From: "Richard Poole" Subject: [PRR] Accurate G-31c or e Number Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:18:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Pass. Diesels From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com \On Monday, January 3, 2005, at 03:24 PM, Ted Andrews wrote: > The answer for both engines is yes. The GP-7's were primarily used on > commuter service in Chicago while the RS-3's were used in commuter > service in Pittsburgh. The Chic. Terminal Div. did a couple of RS-3's > is steam generators. Once in a while, these engines were used in > commuter service but the GP-7's were favored due to their better > acceleration. There were also five GP7's used for passenger train helper service on the East Slope. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:18:38 EST Subject: [PRR] Early Diesel Period & Huntingdon, PA X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I am looking for information on what diesel locomotives to use on my layout with nothing after 1949. Perhaps someone can steer me to a web site with that information. I am modeling a layout focused on Huntingdon, PA in the Middle Division. I intend to have lots of staging to keep the main line busy while the nitty gritty operation will be the Huntingdon and Broad Top Mountain Railroad and Coal Company. I intend to try to duplicate Huntingdon from just east of the Depot and some of the yard just past Hunt Tower. Thanks Harold R. McGee Gainesville, FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI PRR K7 Question Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:24:52 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcTx0IKckVFbwiqGQTaax8uJM7CmswAAXjAQ In-reply-to: <988C12EE-5DC2-11D9-946B-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Now we need a K8 option! I've been kitbashing the old TM stock car as a stand-in. But it's a lot of work and still not right. I sure would like the "real" thing. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Britton Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 3:04 PM To: Ted Andrews Cc: PRR Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI PRR K7 Question . . . I, too, need to model FW-8. At least you HO guys have a Pennsy K7a option!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:30:51 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Early Diesel Period & Huntingdon, PA From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Monday, January 3, 2005, at 03:18 PM, Hal6963@aol.com wrote: > I am looking for information on what diesel locomotives to use on my > layout > with nothing after 1949. Perhaps someone can steer me to a web site > with that > information. This page on Keystone Crossings lists the first year each locomotive model appeared on the Pennsy... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/motiveops/diesel_xref.html However, the listings of available models is WAY out of date!!! > > I am modeling a layout focused on Huntingdon, PA in the Middle > Division. I > intend to have lots of staging to keep the main line busy while the > nitty > gritty operation will be the Huntingdon and Broad Top Mountain > Railroad and Coal > Company. Now, just because a locomotive was present on the Pennsy doesn't mean it was present on the Middle Division. How accurate do you want to get? What you want to look at next is the MP229, which lists what locomotives were assigned to what divisions. The "General Information" section at the top of this page... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/motiveops/ ...offers several, but not one for 1949. There must be one somewhere!!! There are MP229's linked there from 1944 (way too early), 1954 (considerably too late), and 1957 (really late). But they will at least give you a feel for what the MP229 offers. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Accurate G-31c or e Number Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:33:55 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcTx0biO0E7JEkXFSuCfrzAijG/SOQAAaB+Q In-reply-to: <200501031513.AA534380862@PAnetwork.com> Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com G31C 371200 to 371949 750 cars G31D 375750 to 376949 1200 cars G31E 376950 to 377449 500 cars regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Richard Poole Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 3:13 PM To: PRR TALK Subject: [PRR] Accurate G-31c or e Number Gentlemen, Can anyone give me the series of correct numbers for PRR's G-31c or G-31e Gondolas? If series is broken up within several blocks of numbers, then one good number for each class will do nicely. THANKS!! I just finished a 1 1/2" scale model of this gondola and want to put a good number on it. THANKS Again!! -- DICK POOLE -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Accurate G31c or e Number Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 20:36:18 +0000 Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 14:43:18 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI PRR K7 Question and Cocoa Beach From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com > On Monday, January 3, 2005, at 03:17 PM, Ted Andrews wrote: > >> How many numbers has BLI released for this car? I know that there is a >> 4-car set but are they have 2 or 3 versions of the 4-car set with >> different numbers? I would like to get a number of these since I will >> be modeling train FW-8, Man-O-War!! > > My dealer shipment contained numerous four-car sets. Each set was the > same four numbers, leading me to believe they have only released four > numbers. Besides, had they released more, it would have been very much > in their best interest to say so, so as to increase sales. Yep, just one set of numbers for the 4 pack. BLI is still somewhat clueless... remember, the 4 pack w/o sound was only available because we (PRR modelers) clamored for them! Noe, send your emails to BLI and ask for another 2 or 3 number sets, and while your at it, ask for good trucks and a STANDARD bolster so at the least you can swap their crappyt trucks for the nice Bowser truck. BTW, I'll have one of mine done up nicely (except for the trucks) for Prototype Rails in Cocoa Beach this coming weekend. Hope I see some of y'all there!! Regards Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Broadway Limited K7A stock car Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:54:23 -0500 Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 16:03:45 -0500 From: Zak Subject: Fw: [PRR] Pass. Diesels From: "Zak" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pass. Diesels > From: "Ted Andrews" > Subject: Re: [PRR] Pass. Diesels > From: RDG2124@aol.com > Subject: [PRR] Pass. Diesels From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI PRR K7 Question and Cocoa Beach Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 16:05:12 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcTx1ibUYsEmlQgFRuKylot9wZVFXAAAZfPg In-reply-to: <50505.68.221.205.188.1104784998.squirrel@www.vetmed.auburn.edu> Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com BLI does offer a painted undec set of cars, but they don'y specify which color its painted! The PRR color is a good guess, but it's only a guess. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 3:43 PM To: Jerry Britton Cc: PRR Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI PRR K7 Question and Cocoa Beach > On Monday, January 3, 2005, at 03:17 PM, Ted Andrews wrote: > >> How many numbers has BLI released for this car? I know that there is >> a 4-car set but are they have 2 or 3 versions of the 4-car set with >> different numbers? I would like to get a number of these since I will >> be modeling train FW-8, Man-O-War!! > > My dealer shipment contained numerous four-car sets. Each set was the > same four numbers, leading me to believe they have only released four > numbers. Besides, had they released more, it would have been very much > in their best interest to say so, so as to increase sales. Yep, just one set of numbers for the 4 pack. BLI is still somewhat clueless... remember, the 4 pack w/o sound was only available because we (PRR modelers) clamored for them! Noe, send your emails to BLI and ask for another 2 or 3 number sets, and while your at it, ask for good trucks and a STANDARD bolster so at the least you can swap their crappyt trucks for the nice Bowser truck. BTW, I'll have one of mine done up nicely (except for the trucks) for Prototype Rails in Cocoa Beach this coming weekend. Hope I see some of y'all there!! Regards Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Alex Charyna Subject: Re: [PRR] Pass. Diesels Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 16:42:48 -0500 To: prr-talk@dsop.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Evan, From Triumph III (awesome book) West of Reading, passenger service ended in 1941, to Reading regular service lasted to 1951, Sundays until 1953. There's also a picture of G5 #5716... "These stalwart units had the primary responsibility for passenger trains on the division and continued in service west of electrified territory until discontinuation of service in 1953." Another picture shows Atlantic #1600 about to depart Reading for Philly on it's final run in October 1953. "Pennsy Diesels A-6 to EF-36" shows the RS3's as arriving in August 1950, the GP-7's arrived in January 1952. The book also describes the uses of the GP-7's in passenger service, but no mention of the Schuylkill Branch. Based on that, I'd say no GP-7's possibly an RS-3, but definately a G5. Thanks for persuading me to do some research for my own model railroad. :) Hopefully someone else can add... -alex On Jan 3, 2005, at 2:58 PM, John Frantz wrote: > Evan, > > Actually they used both. I know the Alco RS3's were classed AS16ms, > check the Withers book for assignments. RS3's had an extra stack right > behind the cab on the shorthood end for the steam machinery. Ditto on > the GP7's for the Witehrs book. > > -John > > RDG2124@aol.com wrote: >> Did the Pennsy utilize ALCO RS-3 or EMD GP-7 diesels in passenger >> service? If so, would they have been used on the Schuylkill Br. >> through Reading, Pa? Believe pass. service through Reading was >> abolished in the mid 50's. >> Many thanks, >> Evan Leisey >> RCT&HS 346 >> PRRT&HS 7487 >> PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 >> CNJ 2003 >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > York, PA > Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Western Maryland, and > Maryalnd & Pennsylvania. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 19:14:53 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI PRR K7 Question X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 1/3/2005 3:02:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, Ted_Andrews@msn.com writes: How many numbers has BLI released for this car? I know that there is a 4-car set but are they have 2 or 3 versions of the 4-car set with different numbers? I would like to get a number of these since I will be modeling train FW-8, Man-O-War!! There are a total of 6 numbers -- 4 pack no sound, 1 with hog noise and 1 with cattle noise. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 19:19:07 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI PRR K7 Question and Cocoa Beach X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com The undecs are more like roof brown than the PRR color used on the K7a's. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 21:46:28 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "sjlash" Subject: [PRR] Atlas FM H 16 44 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi Guys, Atlas has announced reservations for the FS16m, the Fairbanks-M= orse H 16 44. Looking at what reference info I have, this looks like the= correct body style for Pennsy. The artwork on the Atlas web site is too= shadowed to tell. Any thoughts from the "experts" would be appreciated.= ( The pair I have now, Spectrum, will probably be set up for the Pgh & W= Virginia) Thanks Jim Lash ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Kgt255@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 21:59:18 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Atlas FM H 16 44 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com ( The pair I have now, Spectrum, will probably be set up for the Pgh & W Virginia) <<>> As are mine, but I don't show 'em off much: the paint's really rough. That end curve on the yellow stripe is a bear. I really wish someone would do an H-20-44 (PRR FS-20 or FS-20m). The P&WV used 'em, and so did the PRR on the Chartiers Branch. I have no evidence that there was ever an FS-16m on the Chartiers Branch. So, I cheat a bit sometimes. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Haines" Subject: [PRR] prr freight train symbols Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 21:59:03 -0800 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com AST-2 was known as the Astronaut. It operated via Logansport and = Columbus. There was also an AST-4 that ran via Ft. Wayne. I don't = recall an AST-1. I think the GR in GRE-2 stood for Grand Rapids. Bill Haines=20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 22:39:36 -0600 (CST) Subject: RE: [PRR] Broadway Limited K7A stock car From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com > > Bruce, > > Is it set up as a double decker or single deck? I know it doesn't have > the > second deck inside but allegedly you can tell from the outside how many > decks a K7 A has. This becomes important if you get one with sound. > > > Chris Chany Chris, Its a double decker. More annoying is the fact that the supports for the second deck are molded into the sides and so you cannot make it a single decker just by removing the inner deck. Regards Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Hough " Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 22:58:58 -0600 Subject: [PRR] More PRR and prototype Photos at Railimages From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 00:05:26 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] prr freight train symbols MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com PRR symbol GR is Grand Rapids. PRR freights GR-6 and 7 operated between Grand Rapids and Cincinnati. Somewhere around here,I have some PRR Enginman's Time Books from the Lines West-Ft. Wayne area with a few of the GR freights. I try to dig them up. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 08:29:54 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: Fw: [PRR] Pass. Diesels Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com FWIW, Easter Shore is ALWAYS capitalized! And horse racing here was harness racing --still is. please send me a copy of the photo. Jim McDaniel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Broadway Limited K7A stock car Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:27:49 -0500 Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:04:37 -0600 (CST) Subject: RE: [PRR] Broadway Limited K7A stock car From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Chris, et al, Yes, double decker is basically for hogs, and can be used for lambs. Cattle would ride on a single decker. In order to convert the BLI K7A to a single decker, you will need to remove the inner deck, and the remove each of the molded in support brackets on the sides as well as the fake edge of the deck. While laborious, this shouldn't be too difficult. In fact, I may get to this before I leave for Cocoa, and if I do, I'll bring an in progress car. Regards Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL > > I assume that means if you get the sound version you have to get the hogs. > Or were cows transported on double deckers? > > Chris Chany > > Bruce Smith wrote: > > Its a double decker. More annoying is the fact that the supports for the > second deck are molded into the sides and so you cannot make it a single > decker just by removing the inner deck. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 15:51:40 -0500 From: "Richard Poole" Subject: [PRR] BALDWIN "SHARK-NOSE" QUESTION From: "John Peters" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pass. Diesels Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 15:27:10 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Used out of Trenton to Camden Locals and GP-7 on Nellie Bly when NY Div engine crews had assignment boomer ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 2:41 PM Subject: [PRR] Pass. Diesels > Did the Pennsy utilize ALCO RS-3 or EMD GP-7 diesels in passenger service? > If so, would they have been used on the Schuylkill Br. through Reading, Pa? > Believe pass. service through Reading was abolished in the mid 50's. > > Many thanks, > > Evan Leisey > RCT&HS 346 > PRRT&HS 7487 > PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 > CNJ 2003 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 17:52:51 -0800 (PST) From: Moose Kunkle Subject: [PRR] Latrobe-Greensburg area (HELP!) From: "Steve Hipes" Subject: [PRR] RE: BAR Geeps on PRR Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 04:55:37 +0000 From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 00:29:02 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: BAR Geeps on PRR X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 46 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 1/4/05 11:09:31 PM, sthipes@hotmail.com writes: >I have heard two different stories regarding PRR's (and later PC and >Conrail) use of Bangor and Aroostock geeps. One story says PRR had partial > >ownership thus the use of the engines over the summer to help with the >heavy >lake mineral traffic while the other simply says PRR leased the units during > >BAR's off season. Are either correct? > ********** I've told the story before. I don't know the terms of use, but in 1965 or 1966, my wife and I went to the wedding of one of her school room mates in Canton, Ohio. Either in Canton or Youngstown, I saw two of the cleanest, prettiest engines I ever saw. Don't know the type, but they were B & A engines, sort of a lavender/purpleish with yellow trim. When I asked about them at the office, I believe I was told they were leased during the summer when they were not needed in Maine to move logs/timber, as they were in winter. Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: BAR Geeps on PRR Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 00:58:11 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at paonline.com Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Steve, While searching through the PRR Letter Agreements of 1900-1967 in the State Archives in Harrisburg, I noted two lease agreements with the BAR for GP7 and GP9 locomotives: #502 dated 3-26-51 to apply to each of the years 1951-1957 was for the BAR to lease 10 1500 HP locos to the PRR to be delivered May 5-15th and returned November 5-15th of each year. Locos to be GP7R or BL2 models. Costs to be $35/day @ up to 132 miles/day.(Cancelled by #572) #572 dated 9-4-58 amending #502 to reduce # of units from 15 to 8 for 1958 & extending this for one year (to 1968). (This was originally an agreement of 5-1-54 to lease 15 units per year through 1967). Locos to be GP7 & GP9. There was more detail, but that was all I noted. Jack Consoli ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Hipes To: Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 11:55 PM Subject: [PRR] RE: BAR Geeps on PRR > I have heard two different stories regarding PRR's (and later PC and > Conrail) use of Bangor and Aroostock geeps. One story says PRR had partial > ownership thus the use of the engines over the summer to help with the heavy > lake mineral traffic while the other simply says PRR leased the units during > BAR's off season. Are either correct? > > Your help is appreciated. > > Regards, > > Steve Hipes > Columbus, Ohio > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: amato@mchsi.com Subject: [PRR] Wilkes-Barre branch towers Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 16:10:57 +0000 Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 12:27:22 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Enola Yard's 100th Anniversary From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <0EE34391-5F3F-11D9-B283-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Two events have been announced to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the Enola Yard, outside of Harrisburg, Pa.: May 14, 2005: Enola Yard Centennial Indoor Railroad Show & Collectors Market - Sponsored by the Historical Society of East Pennsboro. 9 a.m. - 3 p.m. West Enola Fire Hall, 118 Chester Road, Enola, Pa. May 14, 2005: Enola Yard Centennial Festival - Arts & crafts, food, music & kid's activities, fireworks (at 8:30 p.m.). Sponsored by the Historical Society of East Pennsboro. 10 a.m. - 8 p.m. Adams Rici Park, Enola, Pa. Unfortunately (or fortunately) this is the weekend BEFORE the PRRT&HS Annual Meeting in Camp Hill. I am privy to another related event, not on the above dates, that will be announced on March 1. Also, Dan Cupper has a book in the works on the history of the Enola Yards. No ETA yet. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 10:28:14 -0800 Subject: [PRR] PRR Lettering Available From: Greg Ritacco Message-Id: <8FE71C6C-5F47-11D9-848A-000A959FDA52@surewest.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=216.93.194.38 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi, For the last month or so I have been staying out of the cold garage where my workbench is and spending my modeling time on computer based projects. One is that I carefully traced PRR lettering diagrams obtained from the society, to make decals for the P70 and other head end cars I'm working on. Since I went that far, I just compiled the letters into a font I'm calling Pennsy. The UC is the word PENNSYLVANIA, used on early steel passenger cars, numerals are passenger car numerals, and LC is the alphabet in 4" letters, used on U. S. MAIL, ADAMS EXPRESS Etc. I may be fanatical (SPF), but I'm not crazy, so there are no metrics to speak of. I will send you a copy if you want one, all 4 kinds are available. Greg Ritacco ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] diesels in passenger service Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 16:25:24 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/04/05 Thread-Index: AcTyJKDcBBxo3JZaSF+IfN4J/vVWwABSAZkw From: "Drye, John" To: "PRR-Talk" Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Evan asks: Did the Pennsy utilize ALCO RS-3 or EMD GP-7 diesels in passenger = service? =20 If so, would they have been used on the Schuylkill Br. through Reading, = Pa? =20 Believe pass. service through Reading was abolished in the mid 50's. Also used in Passenger service on the Elmira Branch, right at the end, = about 55-56. Great pictures in Caloroso's book on the branch. Although = calling that operation "passenger service" is a bit of a stretch. Often = just the locomotive and one combine. John Drye ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hanel29@att.net Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRRPro] PRR Lettering Available Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 02:56:13 +0000 From: "Ken Hough " Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 21:29:12 -0600 Subject: [PRR] PRR GP7 By Lawrence Line From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg Electrification Room Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 18:52:35 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Listers, Out of sheer curiosity, has anybody ever seen any photos=20 of the inside of the power Directors room on the second=20 floor of the station at Harrisburg? I am aware and have in=20 my collection the pictures taken by the Library of=20 Congress's HABS/HAER records. To see these pictures go this link (HABS/HAER) and so a=20 query for "Harrisburg Station", theyare in the photographs=20 collection. Also, along those lines has anyone seen pictures of where=20 the original passenger subway entrances from the platforms=20 were located? It's obvius from this day in age that they=20 have been covered up, but its another interesting fact. Thanks for any help. Best Regards to all, John York, PA Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Western Maryland,=20 and Maryland & Pennsylvania. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 01:23:49 GMT Subject: [PRR] Passenger Service From: abendschein@comcast.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg Electrification Room Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 01:45:40 +0000 Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 21:07:33 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg Electrification Room Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com John Frantz wrote: > > Also, along those lines has anyone seen pictures of where the original > passenger subway entrances from the platforms were located? It's > obvius from this day in age that they have been covered up, but its > another interesting fact. > Greetings to John, Jerry and the List: They were under the stairways leading from the passenger bridge to the platform, and you can still see the remnants of where the stairwells were (now covered over/filled in). Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 23:29:30 EST Subject: [PRR] RS-3/GP-7 Pass. Units - Thanks X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Many thanks. Once again, more than I had hoped to learn. Now to talk a friend out of his Withers books for the weekend. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: [PRR] BLI K4 Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 10:12:46 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Has anyone found a solution to the BLI K4's "air-ringer" bell? I am finding this sound more and more annoying. regards, Andy Miller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 10:24:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K4 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Andy, annoying in what way? Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K4 Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 10:30:52 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Andy: I don't believe there is a CV that you can change that will alter the cadence of the bell. Isn't the air ringer correct for the K-4? Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Miller" To: ; ; "'PRR Talk'" Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 10:12 AM Subject: [PRR] BLI K4 > Has anyone found a solution to the BLI K4's "air-ringer" bell? I am > finding this sound more and more annoying. > > regards, > > Andy Miller > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI K4 Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 10:39:09 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcT0zkWEvhP3moOFRB+xEyYAb7uzAQAAKXog In-reply-to: <002401c4f4cd$e092b300$d5cca4d8@Office> Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I don't believe any K4's (certainly not the BLI model) ever had an air ringer. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Larry Reynolds Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 10:31 AM To: Andy Miller; PRR@yahoogroups.com; PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com; 'PRR Talk' Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K4 Andy: I don't believe there is a CV that you can change that will alter the cadence of the bell. Isn't the air ringer correct for the K-4? Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Miller" To: ; ; "'PRR Talk'" Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 10:12 AM Subject: [PRR] BLI K4 > Has anyone found a solution to the BLI K4's "air-ringer" bell? I am > finding this sound more and more annoying. > > regards, > > Andy Miller > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 10:52:21 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR-Modeling] RE: [PRR] BLI K4 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Andy,, =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0But the K4s Bell is not a rope pull, it has an air activated motor/piston assembly up inside that moves the clapper, thus the faster rate of clang. Many audio recordings record this. True, when designed, the classic PRR low cradle bells were rope pulls but were soon changed to air pistons. I believe there was also some doccumentaion somewhere that showed an outside piston assembly from an early design as well. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0I think it was Al, Bob Johnson, Bruce and I that had a debate on this subject. We realized that even though the air activated bells of the later era still had the arm for ropes or cable, no one was ever able to come up with a photo that actually showed a rope attached to it. The air prooved to be so reliable......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR-Modeling] RE: [PRR] BLI K4 Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 11:02:26 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcT00Og+hE0q8GwaQhOup+LTaSkifQAAVBWw In-reply-to: <536-41DEB035-10003@storefull-3116.bay.webtv.net> Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Gary, Thank you. I had never heard of this before. Now I have to re-email = BLI and apologize. =20 regards, =20 Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: mittner@webtv.net [mailto:mittner@webtv.net]=20 Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 10:52 AM To: PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com Cc: 'Larry Reynolds'; PRR@yahoogroups.com; PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com; 'PRR Talk' Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR-Modeling] RE: [PRR] BLI K4 Andy,, =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0But the K4s Bell is not a rope pull, it = has an air activated motor/piston assembly up inside that moves the clapper, thus the faster = rate of clang. Many audio recordings record this. True, when designed, the classic PRR low cradle bells were rope pulls but were soon changed to = air pistons. I believe there was also some doccumentaion somewhere that = showed an outside piston assembly from an early design as well.=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0I think it was Al, Bob Johnson, Bruce and I that = had a debate on this subject. We realized that even though the air activated bells of = the later era still had the arm for ropes or cable, no one was ever able to = come up with a photo that actually showed a rope attached to it. The air = prooved to be so reliable......Gary=20 =20 Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->=20 What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Tcy2bD/SOnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~->=20 =20 Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR-Modeling] RE: [PRR] BLI K4 Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 16:08:07 +0000 >From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) >Subject: Re: [PRR-Modeling] RE: [PRR] BLI K4 >Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 10:52:21 -0500 From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 11:27:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR-Modeling] RE: [PRR] BLI K4 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Ted, If I were to hazard a guess, I would estimate sometime in the mid 1920's, if not earlier. Bob Johnson may have better info than I.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 09:25:10 -0800 Subject: [PRR] PRR Lettering From: Greg Ritacco Message-Id: <151D2F1A-60D1-11D9-B789-000A959FDA52@surewest.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=216.93.194.38 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi everyone, There has been a large response to my offer of the Pennsy font. Jerry has very kindly offered to provide space on his site for the font, so I will be moving the project there. I will also make the original EPS files available as well, as most want decals, and EPS is the better way to go. We will post the URL when the font is added. Thanks, Greg ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] Harrisburg Electrification Room Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 11:33:06 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] Harrisburg Electrification Room Thread-Index: AcT0qsy4hMSL0XITQZCmVNpfr+LhGgANBVTQ From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: , "John Frantz" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jan 2005 17:33:06.0175 (UTC) FILETIME=[F28228F0:01C4F4DE] Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Some time ago, the room was open at a PRRT&HS convention held in Camp Hill. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of abendschein@comcast.net Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 7:46 PM To: John Frantz; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg Electrification Room John et al., I had a tour of the Harrisburg Power Director's room on 24 April 1977. =20 At the time the room was not lit as well as it was in the HABS/HAER shots. =20 However, what I remember of it and the photos I did take inside agree well with the HABS/HAER photos. Fred Abendschein > Listers, >=20 > Out of sheer curiosity, has anybody ever seen any photos=20 > of the inside of the power Directors room on the second=20 > floor of the station at Harrisburg? I am aware and have in=20 > my collection the pictures taken by the Library of=20 > Congress's HABS/HAER records. >=20 > To see these pictures go this link (HABS/HAER) and so a=20 > query for "Harrisburg Station", theyare in the photographs=20 > collection. >=20 > Also, along those lines has anyone seen pictures of where=20 > the original passenger subway entrances from the platforms=20 > were located? It's obvius from this day in age that they=20 > have been covered up, but its another interesting fact. >=20 > Thanks for any help. >=20 > Best Regards to all, > John >=20 > York, PA > Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Western Maryland,=20 > and Maryland & Pennsylvania. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. >=20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: [PRR] Air ringer bells (was: BLI K4) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 12:04:06 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcT01rbIoeHK8il2TxClhgzzJyEZNwAA11BA In-reply-to: <537-41DEB85A-8154@storefull-3116.bay.webtv.net> Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Gary, Do you (or anyone else) know what other PRR locos regularly were equipped an with air ringer bell? Returning to my original concern with the BLI model, I notice that the M1, the J1, the T1, and even the GG1 have what sound like rope-pull bells. If the air ringer was such a success on the K4, why were they not installed on later locos? regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Gary Mittner Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 11:27 AM To: Ted Andrews Cc: PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com; pennsyrr@rcn.com; PRR@yahoogroups.com; prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR-Modeling] RE: [PRR] BLI K4 Ted, If I were to hazard a guess, I would estimate sometime in the mid 1920's, if not earlier. Bob Johnson may have better info than I.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 13:30:39 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: Air ringer bells (was: BLI K4) MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Andy, It wasn't just the K4s Bell that was an air ringer, they were all adopted eventually. The low cradle bell was found on C1 E6 G5 H I K L M M1a M1b classes. All were air operated. The A and B class shifters had the pedastal type hanger. Evidence show they were air rung as well. As for the J1 and I believe the GG1, they had no normal hanger/yoke assembly. These were mounted in a hanging position like a K5 Bell but behind the pilots. These were air rung as well, with the same type air motor/clapper assembly where just the clapper swung. As for the speed of the clapper, it may just come down to the amount of air getting into the valve assembly. Maybe they were set at a different presure, maybe they were just sluggish. My K4s Bell when air operated starts working at 60lbs presure. Sounds better at over 100 lbs. My K4s bell maybe sluggush due to ware. My J1 Bell clapper works very well.......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! h=Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:Cc:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=JlzRJ6Dxc364iH4bSXx5OZXqkn7rclOvRr88VDe6npHA3Huj8JOtwIzHNXcgm+7r; h=Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:Cc:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=JlzRJ6Dxc364iH4bSXx5OZXqkn7rclOvRr88VDe6npHA3Huj8JOtwIzHNXcgm+7r; h=Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:Cc:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=JlzRJ6Dxc364iH4bSXx5OZXqkn7rclOvRr88VDe6npHA3Huj8JOtwIzHNXcgm+7r; Message-ID: <00e701c4f4f2$b500d490$cd89aec7@hoxiecomp> Reply-To: "STEPHEN HOXIE" From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" To: "PRR-TALK" Cc: "'Ted Andrews'" , , References: <3851-41DED54F-1865@storefull-3111.bay.webtv.net> Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Air ringer bells (was: BLI K4) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 13:54:30 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 65fbc22f705d6e9971639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94068a24045bc75f78532ce4d44a60e69d5350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 165.121.225.70 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Andy--For HO the only correct bell I have been able to find is Precision Scale 585-3155. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] RE: [PRR] BLI K4 Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 15:04:39 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Gary and Lists, Good estimate - the internal air ringer was made standard on bell arrangement tracing D-79719, drawn 2-12-1926 and issued 2-25-1926 for most classes of steam locomotives with both styles of bell stand. A note on the drawings says "Bell ringer body, clapper and stem through bell and yoke to be purchased from Transportation Devices Corp., Aetna Trust Bldg., Indianapolis." I don't know how rapidly that change occurred. Bob Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Ted Andrews" Cc: ; ; ; Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 11:27 AM Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR-Modeling] RE: [PRR] BLI K4 | | Ted, | | If I were to hazard a guess, I would estimate sometime in the mid | 1920's, if not earlier. Bob Johnson may have better info than I.....Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR-Modeling] Re: [PRR] Re: Air ringer bells (was: BLI K4) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 15:08:34 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcT08vtiKn64rR7KTuyNYaNJftJpdwAAXczQ In-reply-to: <00e701c4f4f2$b500d490$cd89aec7@hoxiecomp> Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Thanx Steve, I just check the Walthers site and its currently not in stock - expected 9 Feb 05. I just may consider ordering some to upgrade all me Bowser locos. They currently have Cal Scale bells. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: STEPHEN HOXIE [mailto:stevehprr@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 2:55 PM To: PRR-TALK Cc: 'Ted Andrews'; PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com; pennsyrr@rcn.com Subject: [PRR-Modeling] Re: [PRR] Re: Air ringer bells (was: BLI K4) Andy--For HO the only correct bell I have been able to find is Precision Scale 585-3155. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Give the gift of life to a sick child. Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's 'Thanks & Giving.' http://us.click.yahoo.com/5iY7fA/6WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/9MtolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR-Modeling/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-Modeling-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! h=Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:Cc:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=OwA1k2kG3f/5CoRcx9z0SSLiyl+WI1C9RKHeXG54RYNoRfyJZa/Kq+6kdK9bmAwM; h=Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:Cc:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=OwA1k2kG3f/5CoRcx9z0SSLiyl+WI1C9RKHeXG54RYNoRfyJZa/Kq+6kdK9bmAwM; h=Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:Cc:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=OwA1k2kG3f/5CoRcx9z0SSLiyl+WI1C9RKHeXG54RYNoRfyJZa/Kq+6kdK9bmAwM; Message-ID: <010601c4f505$22224790$cd89aec7@hoxiecomp> Reply-To: "STEPHEN HOXIE" From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" To: , "'PRR-TALK'" Cc: "'Ted Andrews'" , References: <200501072007.j07K7uM00706@smtp-bedford.mitre.org> Subject: Re: [PRR-Modeling] Re: [PRR] Re: Air ringer bells (was: BLI K4) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 16:05:04 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 65fbc22f705d6e9971639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940a75c58e1e9940ff6d662c9c14fbeb22c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 199.174.135.99 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Andy--Might want to consider ordering direct from PSC. All this bell interest since BLI brought out the M1a/b and the K4 might just use up all the stock. Besides BLI and Bowser, everybody's brass needs this bell, too. Walthers' stock/sell/reorder/wait-for-restock cycle is very extended as it is. And when the I1's hit the market.......... Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Hough " Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 17:15:59 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Branchline sleeper handrails From: "Mark Taylor" Subject: [PRR] Numberboard Numbers Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 21:26:02 -0500 From: "Bill Godby" Subject: [PRR] PRR MoW cars Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 11:33:30 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I recently ran across 2 PRR MoW cars and was wondering if anyone had any = information on them. The one is PRR 492197, it is painted yellow and = looks like it says Track D60. The other one is PRR 490015, Tuscan = Maybe???? I can send scans of these if anyone wants to see them. Thanks, Bill Godby PRRT&HS 7162 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 13:01:10 -0500 From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR MoW cars Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Bill, My list shows 492197 as Dining car D78R #7940 . I have no record of 490015. Where are these cars located? I would like to add them to my list of survivors. Regards, Eddie PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO Bill Godby wrote: > I recently ran across 2 PRR MoW cars and was wondering if anyone had any information on them. The one is PRR 492197, it is painted yellow and looks like it says Track D60. The other one is PRR 490015, Tuscan Maybe???? I can send scans of these if anyone wants to see them. > > Thanks, > Bill Godby PRRT&HS 7162 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 14:13:40 EST Subject: [PRR] Buckeye pronunciation guides? X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 1/6/2005 9:13:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: Message: 1 Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 14:23:17 +0000 From: ernclaw@comcast.net Subject: Re: Scioto Sigh oh toe Ernie Clausing -------------- Original message -------------- > > > And - - - how do you pronounce Scioto? > > Gary E. Heiland > #3242 NCR Chptr > 1. Sigh-oh'-to should be correct, but that's not what I usually heard in Columbus or much of the Scioto River valley. If you are from the southern half of Ohio, it is usually pronounced Sigh-oh'-tah This goes along with the southern Ohio tendency to pronounce with a relieving "ah": Ohio = O-high'-ah, esp. "o-hi'-ah stayt yew-ni-ver'-si-tee" Toledo = Tow-lee'-dah Piqua = Pi-kwah' (never Pik'-way) Please note that this tendency may have disappeared some in the last 30 years, but when I lived in God's country, that's the way it was. 2. Other Buckeyisms: Cadiz = Ka'-diss (never Ka-dizz' like Spain nor Kay'-dizz like Kentucky) Olentangy (a river at Columbus) = Owe-len-tan'-gee Bellefontaine = Bell-fown'-tun Lima = Lye'-ma (Lee'-ma is in the South American country of Peru) Xenia = Zeen'-ya (not Ex-zeen'-ya) Washington = War'shing-tun (as in Warshingtun Court House Route = Rowt (instead of Root) fertilizer = fer-ti-lyz, often without the trailing "r" and soft drinks are "pop". Ask for a soda, and you'll get something with ice cream in it. 3. BTW, I'm always amused at arguments about the correct way to spell American Indian names like Scioto, Chillicothe, Piqua, or Maumee/Miami, since all of these are corruptions of the original tongues in order to Anglicize them. (Same comment for Frenchifications, also). I tried teaching "correct" Buckeye pronunciation of the place names on my layout to my operating group down here in Louisville Kentucky, but it's an uphill battle. Rick Tipton - a southern Ohio native transplanted to Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 14:13:40 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Buckeye pronunciation guides? > Sigh oh toe Ernie Clausing > > And - - - how do you pronounce Scioto? > > Gary E. Heiland > #3242 NCR Chptr > 1. Sigh-oh'-to should be correct, but that's not what I usually heard in Columbus or much of the Scioto River valley. If you are from the southern half of Ohio, it is usually pronounced Sigh-oh'-tah This goes along with the southern Ohio tendency to pronounce with a relieving "ah": Ohio = O-high'-ah, esp. "o-hi'-ah stayt yew-ni-ver'-si-tee" Toledo = Tow-lee'-dah Piqua = Pi-kwah' (never Pik'-way) Please note that this tendency may have disappeared some in the last 30 years, but when I lived in God's country, that's the way it was. 2. Other Buckeyisms: Cadiz = Ka'-diss (never Ka-dizz' like Spain nor Kay'-dizz like Kentucky) Olentangy (a river at Columbus) = Owe-len-tan'-gee Bellefontaine = Bell-fown'-tun Lima = Lye'-ma (Lee'-ma is in the South American country of Peru) Xenia = Zeen'-ya (not Ex-zeen'-ya) Washington = War'shing-tun (as in Warshingtun Court House Route = Rowt (instead of Root) fertilizer = fer-ti-lyz, often without the trailing "r" and soft drinks are "pop". Ask for a soda, and you'll get something with ice cream in it. 3. BTW, I'm always amused at arguments about the correct way to spell American Indian names like Scioto, Chillicothe, Piqua, or Maumee/Miami, since all of these are corruptions of the original tongues in order to Anglicize them. (Same comment for Frenchifications, also). I tried teaching "correct" Buckeye pronunciation of the place names on my layout to my operating group down here in Louisville Kentucky, but it's an uphill battle. Rick Tipton - a southern Ohio native transplanted to Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/EpW3eD/3MnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 12:18:36 -0800 Subject: [PRR] PRR Passenger Cars From: Greg Ritacco Message-Id: <7A2DE5DE-61B2-11D9-BC28-000A959FDA52@surewest.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=216.93.194.38 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Good Afternoon, I have two questions for the group. As a continuance of a previous thread, what was the lettering on MS60 cars that actually were converted B60 cars? My Pass. Eqp. Reg. shows MS60 cars with different car numbers than B60's and Rob's site has a FP for MS60's, stanchions added. The other question was whether P70's were ever lettered for Pennsylvania Lines. Thank you. Greg Ritacco ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 20:50:37 -0500 From: Bob Malberti Subject: [PRR] PRR gas-electric motor cars Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 00:05:29 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: ealauterbach@earthlink.net Subject: [PRR] Classic Metal Works Tractor Trailer X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com The new Classic Metal Works Tractor Trailers for the late steam era are coming out and I am wondering if any of the ones offered actually were seen in and around the Pennsy area. I think someone mention them a while back on the list. Walthers now has them list as in in their new product section. Thanks, Eric ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Fw: [PRR] Classic Metal Works Tractor Trailer Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 02:59:30 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/655/Fri Jan 7 08:54:13 2005 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.bluemoon.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com My dealer had a few today, Mid-States, Cooper-Jarrett, and Chicago Express, Hennis. I know they are also marketing PIE, and Roadway. I have also seen trailers of the first 3 I listed on Pennsy trailer trains. As for seeing them on roads, I guess that would depend on what locale you are interested in. FYI a neat trucking site that may be of interest to some Pennsy modelers can be found at http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/ click on the truck pictures link at the top of the page. Brian J Carlson P.E. Cheektowaga NY ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 12:05 AM > Subject: [PRR] Classic Metal Works Tractor Trailer > > > > The new Classic Metal Works Tractor Trailers for the late steam era are > coming out and I am wondering if any of the ones offered actually were seen > in and around the Pennsy area. I think someone mention them a while back on > the list. Walthers now has them list as in in their new product section. > > Thanks, > > Eric > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: "PRR Talk" From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] Classic Metal Works Tractor Trailer Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 12:08:56 -0500 To: "Brian J Carlson" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Jan 9, 2005, at 12:05 AM, ealauterbach@earthlink.net wrote: > The new Classic Metal Works Tractor Trailers for the late steam era > are coming out and I am wondering if any of the ones offered actually > were seen in and around the Pennsy area. I think someone mention them > a while back on the list. Walthers now has them list as in in their > new product section. On Jan 9, 2005, at 2:59 AM, Brian J Carlson wrote: > My dealer had a few today, Mid-States, Cooper-Jarrett, and Chicago > Express, > Hennis. I know they are also marketing PIE, and Roadway. I have also > seen > trailers of the first 3 I listed on Pennsy trailer trains. I brought this up on the list when Classic Metal Works first announced these trailers several months ago. As Brian cited, the Mid-States, Cooper-Jarrett, and Chicago Express are all appropriate for PRR TrucTrains. The PRR instituted TOFC service in June 1954, adding the flats to symbol LCL trains. In early 1955 they created dedicated TOFC trains under symbol TT. In March 1955 they started hauling third party trailers, such as those cited above. BTW, the "TrucTrain" name was applied to the service late in 1954, following an employee contest to name it. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: RE: [PRR] Classic Metal Works Tractor Trailer Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 12:39:08 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <000401c4f621$26fa2d60$5454c840@b6x9501> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Brian and List: I believe Roadway had a terminal in Camden, NJ. A relative worked for them for many years. I did see Cooper-Jarret and PIE when traveling the turnpike. Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Brian J Carlson Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 3:00 AM To: PRR Talk Subject: Fw: [PRR] Classic Metal Works Tractor Trailer My dealer had a few today, Mid-States, Cooper-Jarrett, and Chicago Express, Hennis. I know they are also marketing PIE, and Roadway. I have also seen trailers of the first 3 I listed on Pennsy trailer trains. As for seeing them on roads, I guess that would depend on what locale you are interested in. FYI a neat trucking site that may be of interest to some Pennsy modelers can be found at http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/ click on the truck pictures link at the top of the page. Brian J Carlson P.E. Cheektowaga NY ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 12:05 AM > Subject: [PRR] Classic Metal Works Tractor Trailer > > > > The new Classic Metal Works Tractor Trailers for the late steam era are > coming out and I am wondering if any of the ones offered actually were seen > in and around the Pennsy area. I think someone mention them a while back on > the list. Walthers now has them list as in in their new product section. > > Thanks, > > Eric > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 12:46:22 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PRR F-Units on NYC Lines. MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hello, Some of PRR F units had New York Central's "Automatic Train Stop" for use on NYC Lines. My question is would these units have GRS or US&S cab signals? Thanks in advance. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 10:11:42 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Conemaugh Division history question. From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR F-Units on NYC Lines. Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 18:33:48 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <12797-41E16DEE-567@storefull-3234.bay.webtv.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-SLUIDL: B8DEB1BA-936B46B2-B954B97E-EDAFF092 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Howdy Dave: Do you mean the EF15a (EMD model F7) 9656A to 9661A and 9666 for use over the NYC in the Erie PA area? They had NYC ITS (Inductive Train Stop) equipment installed on them. Not sure what all equipment this would include. Other then a few mentions here and there, I do not think I have ever seen a picture of one. Maybe Triumph VII, which covers the Erie area, can provide more information. Or are there others? Cos Wayne S. Betty Cos Communications, Inc. Small business IT services. Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone "If we can not have what we like, we must learn to like what we have!" John Paul Jones Building the next generation of Leaders, support your local troop! Troop 53 - Maytown PA Harvest District of the Pennsylvania Dutch Council Beat the Christmas rush - Go to Church now! -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of zootowerprr@webtv.net Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 12:46 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] PRR F-Units on NYC Lines. Hello, Some of PRR F units had New York Central's "Automatic Train Stop" for use on NYC Lines. My question is would these units have GRS or US&S cab signals? Thanks in advance. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Oerm2133@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 18:59:06 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR F-Units on NYC Lines. X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 1/9/05 4:41:25 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cos@mycyberlink.net writes: > PRR-Talk@dsop.com > There may be other pictures but I am looking at one of F7A 1905 on page 83 of "Pennsy Diesels 1924 - 1968" with the ITS visible. D Luke Lower Arizona ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR F-Units on NYC Lines. Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 19:59:40 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Page 47 of Pennsy Diesel Years 4 by Yanosey. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne S. Betty" > Do you mean the EF15a (EMD model F7) 9656A to 9661A and 9666 for use over > the NYC in the Erie PA area? > They had NYC ITS (Inductive Train Stop) equipment installed on them. Not > sure what all equipment this would include. > Other then a few mentions here and there, I do not think I have ever seen a > picture of one. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 08:09:41 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Patriot News Article On Enola Yard From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com The Harrisburg Patriot News has an article on the Enola Yard today... celebrating its 100th year... http://www.pennlive.com/news/patriotnews/index.ssf?/base/news/ 1105352403283341.xml ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 08:33:27 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Lettering Available From: Jerry Britton In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <35819CA8-630C-11D9-8DC4-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Greg's fonts are now available for download from the Art section of Keystone Crossings at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/art/ Thanks, Greg! On Wednesday, January 5, 2005, at 02:13 PM, Greg Ritacco wrote: > This is a generic reply to your request for the Pennsy font. The > upper case letters are PENNSYLVANIA and K. 10 numerals are included. > The lower case letters and & and period are also included. The letters > are traced from: > C-15746 15747 7" letters > D-92250 numerals > C-93642 4" letters > The zip file includes Mac and PC TT and PS files. I've tested them, > but there is no warranty. They are provided for your use and are not > for resale. > I would also like to hear from you about how you like or don't like > them. I did them fast so they kern poorly, that much I know. > > I could also really use letters as used on the last of the wooden > cars, Bd, Bn, Pk, stuff like that, please let me know if you have a > scan available. Enjoy the font. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 08:38:56 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Announcing http://rnetzlof.pennsyrr.com From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Bob Netzlof has been contributing material to a subsection of Mark Bej's Broadway Limited site (broadway.pennsyrr.com). However, due to time constraints on Mark's part since leaving the Cleveland Clinic some time ago, they agreed it would be best to separate the sites. Over the past few weeks Bob has created a new site, which is now active at http://rnetzlof.pennsyrr.com . Bob has been a great contributor to the Keystone Crossings site over the years and will manage this new site on his own. Good luck, Bob! His content on Mark's site will gradually be removed, as Mark's time permits. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR F-Units on NYC Lines. Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 08:34:42 -0600 Message-ID: <2261A19CD8CAD8449EFD62CAA311A7488B3CEB@EXCHANGE.herzogcompanies.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] PRR F-Units on NYC Lines. Thread-Index: AcT2uC2O1s9vzogqQUmCEKhm4TAa6AAaR4iA From: "Bill Volkmer" To: "Bob Zoeller" , Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Several of the Baldwin sharks had these appliances also. We used to refer to them as "the hook units." I'd have to look up the numbers if you want to know which ones. None of the sharks made it into the renumbering but the F units became the 1900 series, what few were left after the 1965 renumbering. Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bob Zoeller Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 9:00 PM To: PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR F-Units on NYC Lines. Page 47 of Pennsy Diesel Years 4 by Yanosey. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Wayne S. Betty" > Do you mean the EF15a (EMD model F7) 9656A to 9661A and 9666 for use over > the NYC in the Erie PA area? > They had NYC ITS (Inductive Train Stop) equipment installed on them. Not > sure what all equipment this would include. > Other then a few mentions here and there, I do not think I have ever seen a > picture of one. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR gas-electric motor cars Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 09:01:46 -0600 To: Bob Malberti X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Jan 8, 2005, at 7:50 PM, Bob Malberti wrote: > My name is Bob Malberti. This is my first time on PRR-talk. I am > trying to obtain the information necessary for scratchbuilding a PRR > gas-electric motor car in HO scale. I hope to build one good enough to > qualify for an NMRA Achievement Certificate. I would appreciate any > info directing me on how to get/copy blueprints or modeling articles > for this. I can be reached at pennsybrat@optonline.net Hi Bob (wasn't there a drinking game.... ), Welcome! Interesting project, and pretty appropriate as the only good models of PRR gas, or more properly diesel-electric railcars are brass models. The first issue is that it would be good to know which class of doodlebug you were interested in modeling. PRR had a variety of cars. Most of these did start out as gas powered (classes were GEW, gas-electric-westinghouse or GEG, gas-electric-GE). These were converted to diesel and re-classed OEW or OEG (oil-electric-Westinghouse/GE). Diagrams of these cars can be found at Rob Schoenberg's site: http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html? sel=gaselectric&sz=sm&fr= Photographs are widely scattered, however at least one PRR doodlebug survives and may be operated (IIRC #4666 on the Black River and Western in NJ) Once you pick a class, we can help locate photos... Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR gas-electric motor cars Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 10:20:03 -0500 From: Bruce Smith [mailto:smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu] Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR gas-electric motor cars Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 11:01:17 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I know some list members went to Cocoa Beach this past weekend. Any Pennsy news worth reporting? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 12:17:09 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Jerry, Yes, I received a "test shot" of the N scale X23 from Mark Gasson on Saturday. Al Westerfield was impressed. Need I say more? BTW, so were Bill Schneider and Stephen Funaro. The PRRT&HS contingent had by far the largest and most impressive model display. Bill Welch gave a great clinic on Fruit Growers Express, too. Of course, Bruce Smith and Ben Hom covered the R50b and X29 superbly, too. For N scalers, Branchline models had a bunch of lasercut structures that are perfect for PRR layouts as the buildings are typical New England-Middle Atlantic design. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 11:01 AM Subject: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? >I know some list members went to Cocoa Beach this past weekend. Any Pennsy >news worth reporting? > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 12:24:40 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Monday, January 10, 2005, at 12:17 PM, Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > Yes, I received a "test shot" of the N scale X23 from Mark Gasson on > Saturday. Al Westerfield was impressed. Need I say more? Yes, please. Impressed as in "you're going to do really well with this" or impressed as in... walk away quietly, scratch head, and tell wife "maybe we ought to take another look at this"??? ;-) > > For N scalers, Branchline models had a bunch of lasercut structures > that are perfect for PRR layouts as the buildings are typical New > England-Middle Atlantic design. There are a whole slew of very nice laser cut models coming out of the woodwork these days... Branchline, Custom Model Railroads, N Scale Architect, etc. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 12:06:10 -0600 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Jan 10, 2005, at 10:01 AM, Jerry Britton wrote: > I know some list members went to Cocoa Beach this past weekend. Any > Pennsy news worth reporting? Well, Prototype Rails 2005, the 5th annual Cocoa Beach Prototype modelers meet is now over. We had a GREAT PRR presence there. We grabbed a corner and we had two tables in either direction of models, plus an adjacent round table for our "non-PRR" models. Ben Hom brought a printed copy of TKM and the Winter 2004 Keystone, as well as a great series of laminated posters showing the PRRPro projects. Modelers displaying included Ben Hom, Greg Martin, Stan Rydarowicz, Kris Kollar, Dave Volkmer, Greg Mahklov and myself, of course (sorry if I left anyone out, my brain is FRIED!). I have photos of most of the models on my camera, as does Ben (I think). We were a HUGE and obvious presence . I think we inspired the AT&SF guys - they think next year will be their year, but they have a long way to go... There were some fantastic clinics as alwasy. Of interest to the PRR-modeler were several including Ben Hom's on the X29, mine on the R50B (PRRPro project), and two by Bill Welch on the FGE/WFE/BRE reefer fleets. Joe Jack presented two "unofficial" clinics Friday and Saturday night after the regular clinics were over with his slides of Conway, and an arial tour of the PRR from near Pittsburgh to Altoona - incredible! The biggest news for me came from two clinics about the Bob Charles photo collection. This collection was purchased by past NMRA president Charles from a widow somewhere in PA, sometime in the 1970s (he can't remember exactly, and there are no photo credits). The collection has been donated to the NMRA Kalmbach library and has sort of sat there until now... What is it? Only somewhere over 500 photographs shot in and around Harrisburg in 1946-48!!!!! Un-believable!!! About 90% of the shots appear to be on the PRR while the remainder are on the Reading. Ted Culotta showed lots of shots of house cars, reefers and a few others, while Larry Kline did the hoppers and gons. NMRA will be releasing a new book edited by Culotta and Kline with over 300 photos (mostly of the non-PRR cars, but with representative PRR photos as well) sometime this summer (hopefully before the convention). This book will be a MUST HAVE for the serious Pennsy modeler, as it will give a "snapshot" of the foreign cars on the road. I wrote down some 15 or more foreign hopper cars and didn't get them all... how about Central of Georgia? There is the potential that the PRR part of the collection could be published as a separate book... Not too much news from the manufacturers. Walthers had test shots of some more of their cars, including the heavyweight diner (Southern prototype) and their new wood express reefer (General American). Both look nice. Bill Wischer of Walthers told me that the B60B molds should begin to be cut soon, and that they look good for a mid-year arrival. Stan Rydarowicz was displaying his model of the single panel side GLF (Bowser GLA with resin panels) which he is selling and of course he had his F30 parts. Bill Schneider was there from Branchline with their cars, although no FOM 12-1 or other tuscan cars other than the John Jay 12-1 that I reviewed in TKM and as noted, some nice structures. Mr. Greene of Bethlehem Car Works was displaying the etched brass sides for the B60A. He had both early (rectangular windows in the sides and doors) and late (porthole window) versions. As most of you know, I'm not an etched brass fan, but he has managed to get 3 levels of detail on these sides - rivets, battens and panels - albeit shallow, and in fact soldering the door behind does give even more depth. He also had his line of trucks there. F & C and Westerfield were both there, although with nothing new on the PRR side. I did talk to Al about the R7 and he indicated that the big hold up is past (he hopes ), so, it is coming. A bunch of us talked about getting a set of decals done for National refrigerator cars, including Kahn's, as the PRR RF reefers were first transferred to FGE and then to National, and some remained in service until at least the late 1940's! Greg Mahlkov has already mentioned the n-scale resin X23 prototype. Finally Ted Culotta was there selling the 1932 AAR boxcar book and some incredibly nice SOUTHERN decals as well as decals for the as-yet-to-be-release IM AT&SF stock car (the kits will be undec). Now I need to get some work done to pay for what I bought! Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:24:58 -0500 Subject: [PRR] HARRIS Tower to be Produced in HO and N Scales! From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Product Announcement... Merchandise Service has commissioned The N Scale Architect to produce HARRIS tower in HO and N scales. The N Scale Architect recently produced ALTO tower and the response was excellent. The HARRIS tower model will only be available through Merchandise Service. More information is available at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/ms_ar.html . Scroll down to "Due in July". Thank you! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 15:24:22 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Jerry, Al Westerfield was very complementary. He said that the X23 was the one car design he did not feel competent to do the master on himself so had help from two professional modelmakers. But this will be up to his standards. There are still a couple of minor "glitches" - like getting the roof to seat properly. But the details are fantastic, like freestanding brake lines, and proper shape and dimensions for all the stamped bracing. It will be a "knock your socks off" model. Mark does not want photos released until it is perfected. BTW, Bruce mentioned the R7's - Fruit Growers still had 114 of these in 1953 per Bill Welch's clinic!!!! Gotta get after Mark about that. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "Gregg Mahlkov" Cc: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? > On Monday, January 10, 2005, at 12:17 PM, Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > >> Yes, I received a "test shot" of the N scale X23 from Mark Gasson on >> Saturday. Al Westerfield was impressed. Need I say more? > > Yes, please. Impressed as in "you're going to do really well with this" or > impressed as in... walk away quietly, scratch head, and tell wife "maybe > we ought to take another look at this"??? ;-) >> >> For N scalers, Branchline models had a bunch of lasercut structures that >> are perfect for PRR layouts as the buildings are typical New >> England-Middle Atlantic design. > > There are a whole slew of very nice laser cut models coming out of the > woodwork these days... Branchline, Custom Model Railroads, N Scale > Architect, etc. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 15:29:07 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Monday, January 10, 2005, at 03:24 PM, Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > Al Westerfield was very complementary. He said that the X23 was the > one car design he did not feel competent to do the master on himself > so had help from two professional modelmakers. But this will be up to > his standards. There are still a couple of minor "glitches" - like > getting the roof to seat properly. But the details are fantastic, like > freestanding brake lines, and proper shape and dimensions for all the > stamped bracing. It will be a "knock your socks off" model. Mark does > not want photos released until it is perfected. I'm not jumping up and down for the X23. Only 12 were remaining in 1954 when I am modeling. That means, if the rail fan was really lucky, ONE might go by!!! Of course, NX23's (?) might be another story! > > BTW, Bruce mentioned the R7's - Fruit Growers still had 114 of these > in 1953 per Bill Welch's clinic!!!! Gotta get after Mark about that. Interesting! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 16:05:17 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <474260F3-6346-11D9-8186-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Re: I'm not jumping up and down for the X23. Only 12 were remaining in 1954 when I am modeling. But there were many in work equipment status. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 21:06:30 +0000 From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR gas-electric motor cars Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:07:09 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I am interested in Images Replicas announced PRR OEW 330 Pullman Gas Electric #4663. http://www.imagesreplicas.com/new.htm (if that link goes through). Anyone know any details? Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Smith" Interesting project, and pretty appropriate as the only good > models of PRR gas, or more properly diesel-electric railcars are brass > models. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KLJURY@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:12:11 EST Subject: [PRR] Classic Metalworks tractor trailer X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I work for Roadway; to the best of my knowledge did not begin using intermodal until the late 1970's (union agreements hadn't been worked out in the 50's). You could still use them for lineside settings for nearly anywhere in the PRR system. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 14:14:07 GMT Subject: [PRR] Harris in "O" Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 09:24:32 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Harris in "O" From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Tuesday, January 11, 2005, at 09:14 AM, Dominic Mazoch wrote: > > How about Harris in "O"? The minimum run is 50 units per scale. I doubt we could raise support for more than 10. No, no O scale version planned at this time. Sorry! > > > Dominic Mazoch > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. > Now includes pop-up blocker! > Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR gas-electric motor cars Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 10:53:49 -0500 From: Bob Zoeller [mailto:bobspf@wi.rr.com] Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR gas-electric motor cars From: "Bruce Smith" From: "Weldon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Harris in "O" Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 13:34:18 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Jerry: Since you are in the business, I hesitate to question your business sense. However based upon a not so recent experience with one of the manufacturers, they decided not to produce a specific model in "O" Scale because it did not receive enough "interest", when it announced the model. They did not state they wanted reservations or other info. This company had produce other items without asking for "interest". I simply awaited arrival of the model which was never produced. Had they asked ANYONE, I would have sent a deposit. Dominic and others, IF YOU WANT THIS MODEL PRODUCED SPEAK UP NOW!!!! I would be willing to put up or shut up by sending a reasonable deposit if this model were to be produced. WOULD SOMEONE ON THE OTRAINS EMAIL LIST FORWARD THIS ON!!!! All the best to you and yours Weldon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "Dominic Mazoch" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Harris in "O" > On Tuesday, January 11, 2005, at 09:14 AM, Dominic Mazoch wrote: > >> >> How about Harris in "O"? > > The minimum run is 50 units per scale. I doubt we could raise support for > more than 10. No, no O scale version planned at this time. Sorry! >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Sheets" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR F Units on NYC Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 13:08:26 -0600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Trian Stop uses a shoe (facing down) mounted on the lead truck, generally on the Engineer side, there is a reverse shoe (facing up) mounted on the ground aginst the outside rail, looks like this: Locomotive [__] Trackside [TT] When the truck passes over the shoe, there is an inductive field created, if the signal is STOP, the field takes away the brake control and stops the train, if CLEAR then nothing happens. Generally, there is no cab signal, the Engineer would be viewing a wayside signal, the TRAIN STOP is used as a protective override if the Engineer does not react properly to the wayside signal John -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.10 - Release Date: 1/10/2005 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: PRR F Units on NYC Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 14:45:53 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <00f301c4f810$ee0840e0$9b00000a@interaccess.com> Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com John, et al., Re: When the truck passes over the shoe, there is an inductive field created, if the signal is STOP, the field takes away the brake control and stops the train, if CLEAR then nothing happens. Actually if the signal is a STOP it causes an audible sound in the cab to which the engineer must acknowledge (forestall). If he forestalls in the appropriate time nothing happens, if he fails to do so then the brake control is taken away and an automatic stop is made. Upon stopping the engineman must reset the ATS relay. The NYC ATS system is better described as an Intermediate Inductive Train Control System not an Inductive Train Control System. The locomotives that had this system installed where those used on trains using the NYC trackage rights between Girard Jct. and Erie, PA. Cab signals were not used in this system. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: PRR F Units on NYC X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 14:26:39 -0600 Message-ID: <2261A19CD8CAD8449EFD62CAA311A7488B3E09@EXCHANGE.herzogcompanies.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] Re: PRR F Units on NYC Thread-Index: AcT4FhDH8+bFlwuRQgSjSZksen2WcQABbY9Q From: "Bill Volkmer" To: "Al Buchan" , "John Sheets" , "PRR-Talk" Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I believe they were also used between Dunkirk and Buffalo also, were they not? -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Al Buchan Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 2:46 PM To: 'John Sheets'; 'PRR-Talk' Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: PRR F Units on NYC John, et al., Re: When the truck passes over the shoe, there is an inductive field created, if the signal is STOP, the field takes away the brake control and stops the train, if CLEAR then nothing happens. Actually if the signal is a STOP it causes an audible sound in the cab to which the engineer must acknowledge (forestall). If he forestalls in the appropriate time nothing happens, if he fails to do so then the brake control is taken away and an automatic stop is made. Upon stopping the engineman must reset the ATS relay. The NYC ATS system is better described as an Intermediate Inductive Train Control System not an Inductive Train Control System. The locomotives that had this system installed where those used on trains using the NYC trackage rights between Girard Jct. and Erie, PA. Cab signals were not used in this system. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Hough " Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 14:45:48 -0600 Subject: [PRR] PRR gas-electric From: Bob Zoeller [mailto:bobspf@wi.rr.com] Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR gas-electric motor cars From: "Bruce Smith" From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: PRR F Units on NYC Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 16:29:02 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <2261A19CD8CAD8449EFD62CAA311A7488B3E09@EXCHANGE.herzogcompanies.com> Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Re: Bill said - I believe they were also used between Dunkirk and Buffalo also, were they not? The Brocton-Buffalo paired-main operation was on the NKP (not NYC), I don't believe NKP had ATS. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-N-Scale From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] InterMountain Pennsy Announcements! Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 20:44:26 -0500 To: PRR-talk X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Public Service Announcement... InterMountain has changed some aspects of their advance reservations procedures. They still announce releases -- for the current month -- early in the month. However, the Coming Soon page on their web site only looks out one month, whereas before it looked out several months, in no particular order. They have moved to a system where dealers are notified of projected releases over the next coming seasons. Also, in their own words... "In every case we will limit the production run to demand plus a reasonable percentage. If demand at release is more than indicated by reservation, some dealers will not receive the product." Translation: If you want it, you better reserve it, cause it likely will never appear on a dealer's shelves if it is a popular release! InterMountain continues "we will be asking you to reserve this product several months in advance. It is already too late to change our production quantities for the spring quarter (March, April, May)." I share that, just so you understand how important it will be to place advance reservations. That said, on to the Pennsy stuff!!! HO Scale: P85b Coach in PENNSYLVANIA scheme, 2nd run -- Spring P85b Coach in KEYSTONE logo scheme, 2nd run -- Spring N Scale: PS 4-4-2 Pre-War Sleeper "IMPERIAL ___" -- Spring PS 10-5 Pre-War Sleeper "CASCADE ___" "Fleet of Modernism" scheme -- Summer PS 18 RMT Pre-War Sleeper "CITY OF ___" "Fleet of Modernism" scheme -- Summer PS 13 DBR Pre-War Sleeper "___ COUNTY" "Fleet of Modernism" scheme -- Summer Note that the number of road numbers/car names has not been announced yet. I would anticipate no fewer than four of each of the sleepers and the KEYSTONE P85b's; hopefully another 12 of the PENNSYLVANIA P85b's. Also, N scale F3's are now scheduled for Summer release (before there was no ETA). So don't delay, see the dealer of your choice so you don't miss out! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-n_scale] InterMountain Pennsy Announcements! Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 20:47:19 -0500 To: PRR-n_scale@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Jan 11, 2005, at 8:44 PM, Jerry @ Pennsy wrote: > However, the Coming Soon page on their web site > only looks out one month, whereas before it looked out several months, > in no particular order. Figures, while I was writing that they updated the Coming Soon page to match what I was writing about! The good news remains... loads of Pennsy varnish coming! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Douglas Nelson" Subject: RE: [PRR] HARRIS Tower to be Produced in HO and N Scales! Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 20:43:55 -0800 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 6b73c4bfaee5d95e1a2467d70233b1a70a9da525759e2654c1e01ab3de355e3799b325048ee852a3bd9aa8b00e01cd47350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 165.121.194.102 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com HARRIS Tower is also very similar to ALAN Tower in Camden, NJ. Doug Nelson -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Britton Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 10:25 AM To: PRR@yahoogroups.com; PRR-Talk LIST; PRR-n_scale; Conrail-Talk LIST; Reading-Talk LIST Cc: prr-Modeling@yahoogroups.com Subject: [PRR] HARRIS Tower to be Produced in HO and N Scales! Product Announcement... Merchandise Service has commissioned The N Scale Architect to produce=20 HARRIS tower in HO and N scales. The N Scale Architect recently=20 produced ALTO tower and the response was excellent. The HARRIS tower=20 model will only be available through Merchandise Service. More information is available at=20 http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/ms_ar.html . Scroll down to "Due in=20 July". Thank you! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone = Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bruce Smith Subject: [PRR] Fwd: Prototype Modeler Meet in Pittsburgh PA March 11-12 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 08:50:03 -0600 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hello folks, Some of you might be interested in attending this meet! Larry gave a=20 great talk last week at Cocoa Beach using photographs of hoppers and=20 gons from the "Bob Charles" collection that was shot in the Harrisburg=20= area. Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin=20 Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 Begin forwarded message: > Railroad Prototype Modelers Seminar - East > =A0=A0=A0=A0 Sponsored by Division 2, MCR-NMRA > > 1:00pm Friday, March 11 through 11:00pm Saturday, March 12, 2005 > > Registration will begin at 10:00am.=A0 Set up any time after 8:00am > > Holiday Inn, Monroeville (Pittsburgh), PA, (Exit 57, PA Turnpike) > Hotel at $69.00 per night. Ph. 412-372-1022 > Mention "Prototype Modeler's Meet" > > - Presentations on prototype and modeling subjects. > - Planned topics include rolling stock, locomotives, RR industries, > =A0=A0 prototype oriented layout design, and operations. > - Coverage of both the steam-to-diesel transition and modern eras > - A display room will be available for models > - Vendors should sign up early, space is limited. Tables are $20.00 > - Layout tours will be available on Sunday, March 13 > - Early Bird operating sessions on Thursday Evening, March 10 > > If you would like to give a talk contact: > Larry Kline > 4130 Bigelow Blvd. > Pittsburgh, PA 15213 > Phone: 412-422-0678 > > For more information contact: > Dick Flock > 337 Elm Drive=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0 > Greensburg, PA 15601=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 > Phone: 724-850-8882=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 > > Please include a self-addressed stamped envelope with your inquiries. > > Registration Form=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Registration Fee: $30.00 > Please make checks payable to:=A0 Dick Flock. > You can memo RPM East on the bottom of your check. > > = Name__________________________________________Email___________________ > > = Address_______________________________________________________________ > > = City_________________________State_____Zip__________Ph._______________ > > Saturday Evening Buffet $25.00=A0=A0 Yes ____ No ____ > Thursday Operating Session=A0=A0 Yes____ No ____ > > Larry Kline > Pittsburgh, PA= ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Cooper" Subject: [PRR] LED color position light signals? Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 17:14:48 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On a recent trip east it appeared to me that between Phila and Wilmington, Amtrak has replaced the incandecent lamps in its color position signals with LED units. The greens appeared to have that very intense green color that you see in traffic lights and the lunar marker lights appear to have the blueish cast of white LED. Can anyone confirm if they are indeed LED CPL? John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 22:33:02 -0500 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Just a note to furhter expand on Bruce's original post... Mark Kerlick had set up some models on the PRR end of the room and Larry Lauder (Sp?) had some 60's era PRR units mixed with his PC display of equipment. We were well represented and hopefully we will see at least the same or more in Pittsburgh in March! Joe Jack was actually a saving grace as he filled in for a gentlemen who had to cancel at the 11th hour and it was Joe to the rescue! I ask Joe to repeat his 3:00pm seminar/slide show "...at my window" of Conway as I had missed it and Joe and I are old friends... Joe did, as usual, a great job and will be in Pittsburgh in March! If we are not as well represented in attendance and content in Pittsburgh, then shame on us... Rally the troops and go! I believe Ben took somewhere in the neighborhood of 160 shots while there and thank goodness as my battery in my digital decide to die before I could get one shot off! I got a close look at the Walthers production schedule through 2006 and we will all be very happy... Thanks to the society folks, we handed off the first set of information for the N6b cabin car and there will be more to do to get this into production, can't say when though... 3^) sooner than one might think. Great time 80º+ every day and the ngiths were a low of 65º... it was hard to take, let me tell you... I was fortunate enought to have dinner with Kris Kollar and what a modeler this young man is! Very Clean Modeling... PRR is King with this young man! Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 23:11:06 -0500 From: Ken Meyer Subject: [PRR] BLI GG1 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Group, Has anyone attempted to change just the numbers on the Broadway GG1 (4905)? What did you use to remove the old one? What decal set did you use for the new numbers? Thanks. Ken ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "E. Mike" Subject: RE: [PRR] LED color position light signals? Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 04:55:37 +0000 >From: "John Cooper" >Subject: [PRR] LED color position light signals? >Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 17:14:48 -0800 From: Ken Meyer Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 23:11:06 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] BLI GG1 Group, Has anyone attempted to change just the numbers on the Broadway GG1 (4905)? What did you use to remove the old one? What decal set did you use for the new numbers? Thanks. Ken ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/EpW3eD/3MnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: Elden Gatwood From: Bruce Smith Subject: [PRR] Models for Camp Hill Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 12:15:58 -0600 To: PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com, PRR-Talk LIST , PRRPro@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi Folks, You know, it isn't too early to start thinking about bringing models to the PRRT&HS annual meeting in Camp Hill PA. Having just come back from Prototype Rails 2005 in Cocoa Beach, where we PRR modelers were an impressive presence, I KNOW we can do even better at our own meeting! Last years total of models (300+) at the PRRT&HS meeting in Cincy was impressive, but many of them were from the Cincinnati group's display of PRR car classes. I'm going to challenge all of you to see if we can get over 300 without that display!! Elden Gatwood, who is in charge of the model room (as well as reigning me in ), says that we have LOTS of space to fill! First, I challenge each and every one of you reading these lists who models PRR to bring ONE model (bringing more is OK too !!!) If you're worried about not being "good enough" for the contest, DON"T WORRY!! I don't enter (ahem, usually ) any of my models either. This isn't about who is the best modeler! This is about seeing what folks are doing, about sharing ideas, and about sharing our love of modeling the PRR. The display models outnumbered the contest models by about 10 to 1 at Cincy. We have a large model room lined up for Camp Hill. For those of you who just can't bear the thought of NOT having a contest, yes, there will be a contest with the usual popular vote format (no NMRA judging here!). Second, if you've participated in the PRRPro group, I especially want you to bring your PRRPro models!! Third, bring projects that are "in progress". Sometimes, these can be the very best displays, as they teach us new techniques. Likely as not, My Bowser I1 will be one of these "in progress" models ;^) Fourth, feel free to bring your "legacy" models. Fifth, the model room will be "the" place to hang out. Stay tuned as we expect to have lots of new and interesting ideas to make it the place you'll want to be. So, start looking over those projects, and deciding what you're going to finish (or not!) in time, and lets see how many models we can get!! BTW, for those with a fear of flying... we can arrange shipping, but I managed to stuff about 30 models in my carry-on luggage to Cocoa (seen that commercial with the guy putting on lots of clothes????). I also learned that dressing nicely doesn't pay... Wear a railroad T-shirt and loudly tell the security folks something like "you wouldn't BELIEVE how many model trains fit in there" as you put your carry-on on the belt. They know you're crazy then, but in a safe way ;^) Finally, since efforts on my part to increase participation have apparently "offended" some folks in the past, I wish to make it clear that I have permission to "rabble rouse" (and that's a quote ). Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 20:00:59 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR Trailers X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com This may have been discussed before and I missed it. Not being much of an expert on trailers, are the new Classic Metal 32' Aerovans correct for any Pennsy version of trailers? If so which paint schemes? TIA Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Trailers Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 20:51:08 -0500 To: SUVCWORR@aol.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Jan 13, 2005, at 8:00 PM, SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote: > This may have been discussed before and I missed it. Not being much > of an > expert on trailers, are the new Classic Metal 32' Aerovans correct for > any > Pennsy version of trailers? If so which paint schemes? I believe the first instance of Pennsy-owned 32' double axle trailers was March 1955. That's just beyond my era, so I never developed the expertise to know if the new CMW trailers are correct or not. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 00:18:48 -0600 Subject: [PRR] heavyweight sleepers in 1960's From: Frederick Ripley Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 02:59:04 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] Resin Trains BP-20 Cc: PRR talk From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] Resin Trains BP-20 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 07:49:07 -0600 To: Doug Kisala X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Doug, Nice report! Did you know that PRRPro is doing a "Sharks" project next? We are set to begin in about a week and it will include both passenger and freight Sharks. Please feel free to join us!! I'll bet some of your questions, like the antenna, can be answered by members of the group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRRPro/ As with all our projects, its open to any scale so if anyone else out there feels like working on N, S, O, G, Z or any other scale Sharks, come on by!! Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 On Jan 14, 2005, at 4:59 AM, Doug Kisala wrote: > Hello list, > > Courtesy of our listmaster, my Resin Trains BP-20 > shell arrived on Wednesday. > > I never saw the older Miracle Castings shell in the > flesh, so I can't comment on any differences between > the two models. > > Frame is cleanly cast, with most flash on the body > shell around the window areas; it cleans up easily > with an Xacto knife. > > Fuel tank is cast separately in resin, and there are > driveline extension components (did I mention the > model is really, really, long?) and a brass clip to > ensure electrical connectivity. > > Kit has about 8 pages (single sided) of instructions > in color, mostly text, with some diagrams. Kit offers > a choice of either small or large numberboards. I'm > probably going to use the large ones (while my main > modeling interest is 1947-50, I like Tuscan red with 5 > stripe passenger diesels). > > I didn't see any starter spots for the antenna set. > Unless anyone has better ideas, I was going to use a > Bowser/Cal Scale freight Shark set as a starting > point. > > I have to find an Athearn PA to power this with. I > was considering using the LifeLike Proto 2000 PA > chassis components because they're more readily > available at this point, but I'm not sure if they'll > fit. > > Doug > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] heavyweight sleepers in 1960's Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 08:06:53 -0600 To: Frederick Ripley X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Jan 14, 2005, at 12:18 AM, Frederick Ripley wrote: > Hello all, > > Of the three heavyweight sleepers that Walthers is making available in > HO > (12-1; 8-1-2; 14-section), does anyone have an opinion which > configuration > tended to last the longest on the PRR? Specifically, which would have > been > most likely to have occasionally operated as an extra car in the 1960's > on one of the secondary Chicago trains? (all three configurations are > listed as regularly-assigned cars through 1955, but after several > trains > were cut in 1956, they were pretty much limited to extra service). > > Thanks, Fred R. Fred, If you read my 12-1 review in TKM 17 (prrths.com/Keystone%20Modeler/Keystone_Modeler.htm) you'll see that 3 of the 8 cars that can be accurately modeled with the Walthers 12-1s lasted into 1964 and 1965. Many, many more that can be modeled by the Branchline car made it as well. What you really need to do however, is to download Tom Madden's PULLMAN CCR database (as I note in my review) http://home.att.net/~pullmanproject/ No PULLMAN modeler can afford to be without this resource. The database is in Excel and is therefore readily searched and sorted. I usually sort first by plan number, so I can find the plan, and then by a secondary search, such as Paint. In your case, you might sort by "Disposition 2" which would then get all the cars sold to PRR in one group, secondarily by "WFL Date" and thirdly by plan number. Looking at the field "WFL Date" gives the date that the cars were withdrawn from lease to PULLMAN. This is a good estimate, but by no means an absolute date for the end of service, as some of these cars were subsequently used directly by PRR and others had been idle for some time before being withdrawn. Doing this I generated 602 PRR cars with WFL dates of 1960 or later and 219 with WFL dates of 1965 or later. Happy hunting! Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bruce Smith Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRRPro] Re: Models for Camp Hill Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 08:45:13 -0600 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Jan 13, 2005, at 8:09 PM, Angela wrote: > As a first-timer, however, I am > curious about the setup.=A0 Is any advance notice required for = putting > stuff on display, and is there a cutoff for adding to the display > (for late arrivers)? Angela, et. al., I'll second what Ben said last night - no notice needed (although, I=20 encourage you to post what you will bring to the group as we get=20 closer!) and models are welcome at any time. I'll also STRESS that the=20= model room is NOT an NMRA "contest room". No "church-like" silence, no=20= reams of paper documentation, no throwing the unwashed masses out so=20 that the judges can judge... Our format is based more on the RPM style=20= display rooms where folks come and go all the time, where discussion is=20= encouraged and often lively, and where you will find that most of the=20 models are labeled in some way, so that you can find the modeler and=20 actually TALK to them (no required anonymity here!). The usual=20 approach is to give models that are entered in the contest a number, so=20= that folks can vote for them. Unlike Cincy, there will be no attempt=20 to segregate "contest" and display models into separate rooms (which=20 ultimately failed in Cincy anyway). Every time in the last few years=20 that someone has tried to organize the models into specific groupings,=20= that too has failed... I know I want all my models together, not spread=20= all over the room!! So, its unlikely that we'll try very hard to=20 "organize" the room in any way other than to have you sign your models=20= in (for insurance reasons). I usually bring 3x5 cards to label the=20 models, and I will bring "PRRPro" stickers that you can add to the=20 cards for the cars that were PRRPro projects if you want to. Typically,=20= my labels give a brief description of the model and what I did to it=20 (e.g. "Red Caboose X29 lettered for express service. Corrected brakes,=20= added steam and signal lines, weathered") Also, it isn't just cars and motive power... dioramas, structures,=20 boats, vehicles... if its a PRR model, BRING IT! I'm sure that folks=20 will remember 2 years ago when Ed Woodings brought his live steam T1...=20= a clear winner for LARGEST model Note: For those of you who never saw Angela's original or Ben's reply,=20= that's because they were on PRRPro, and I have forwarded this to=20 PRR-talk and PRR-Modeling since I hope the information in my response=20 will be helpful to a wider audience ;^) Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin=20 Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 10:19:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Trailers MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi Rich, You might want to check out "The Keystone" Autumn 1992 for "Pennsy's TrucTrain Service" article. Hope this helps. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 10:19:05 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] PRR Trailers Hi Rich, You might want to check out "The Keystone" Autumn 1992 for "Pennsy's TrucTrain Service" article. Hope this helps. Dave Hopson ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Tcy2bD/SOnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Subject: RE: [PRR] heavyweight sleepers in 1960's Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 11:46:55 -0600 Message-ID: <2261A19CD8CAD8449EFD62CAA311A7488B3FD0@EXCHANGE.herzogcompanies.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] heavyweight sleepers in 1960's Thread-Index: AcT6ANyBuHaUnDpAQWu7fTNSMlgmpgANrznw From: "Bill Volkmer" To: "Frederick Ripley" , Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I seem to recall that (about) the last regularly scheduled heavyweight sleepers were on the Southern from New York to Atlanta about 1957 or 1958. When I was working at Penn Coach Yard in Philadelphia, we had two tracks full of them which we used on special events trains. I well remember one such occasion was to the NAACP National Convention in the summer of 1962 when we had to struggle to get those AC systems to work properly after the cars had been in storage for so long. There was one heavyweight sleeper, the James Russell Lowell which ran from Harrisburg to Erie twice a month to carry draftees to and from Erie to Harrisburg and return for their physical exams. It came off about 1966 when they yanked a coupler out of the the car end just west of Renovo station (it was always the last car on the train) and we had to turn the car on the Renovo turntable at 2 AM with all those noses pressed against the glass wondering what the HELL was going on out there! I would venture to say that that represented one of the very last if not THE last operation of a heavyweight sleeper on the entire PRR. That's my story and I am sticking to it. Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Frederick Ripley Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 1:19 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] heavyweight sleepers in 1960's Hello all, Of the three heavyweight sleepers that Walthers is making available in HO (12-1; 8-1-2; 14-section), does anyone have an opinion which configuration tended to last the longest on the PRR? Specifically, which would have been most likely to have occasionally operated as an extra car in the 1960's on one of the secondary Chicago trains? (all three configurations are listed as regularly-assigned cars through 1955, but after several trains were cut in 1956, they were pretty much limited to extra service). Thanks, Fred R. =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Building color Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:49:51 -0500 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 14:18:08 -0500 Subject: [PRR] TANGENT: Life Like Products is on Fire!!! From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <06170F4C-6661-11D9-9A19-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com The LL warehouse in Baltimore is on fire... it's pretty serious. You can read about it here http://www.thewbalchannel.com/news/4083538/detail.html . ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: WAMMP236@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 14:18:32 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] heavyweight sleepers in 1960's X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hello All, By the 1960's the PRR had already discontinued many east west trains. Hence many prewar light weight sleepers became surplus. All east west trains then carried streamlined lightweight sleepers most of which were the post war cars. When extra Pullman car lines operated they had available many pre and post war streamlined cars available to add. To the best of my knowledge it was the early to mid 50s when the last heavyweight operated on an east west train. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:34:26 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] heavyweight sleepers in 1960's From: Frederick Ripley Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 14:35:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] heavyweight sleepers in 1960's From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Friday, January 14, 2005, at 02:18 PM, WAMMP236@aol.com wrote: > By the 1960's the PRR had already discontinued many east > west > trains. Hence many prewar light weight sleepers became surplus. All > east west > trains then carried streamlined lightweight sleepers most of which > were the > post war cars. When extra Pullman car lines operated they had > available many pre > and post war streamlined cars available to add. To the best of my > knowledge > it was the early to mid 50s when the last heavyweight operated on an > east west > train. Even by 1954 a lot of lightweight sleepers were in the Extra Pool, including most of the 4-4-2's that Centralia is about to release in N scale. You can search the unit roster I have online ( http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/varnish/ ) and see how many of the 1954 assignments are known. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] TANGENT: Life Like Products is on Fire!!! Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 14:42:18 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Listers, Just to calm any fears of any melting trains, this isn't=20 their main warehouse which is located in The Hampden=20 section of Baltimore a stones throw from the Northern=20 Centrals Woodbury station. Life-like actually owns quite a=20 few warehouses located around the city, primarily for foam=20 storage. Trains are stored in a harbor warehouse after=20 being taken from container ships. Anybody that wants to make some money selling flooded=20 trains, last year a container fell off a ship that had a=20 life-like shipment in it and is located somewhere in the=20 harbor. :-) -John Jerry Britton wrote: > The LL warehouse in Baltimore is on fire... it's pretty=20 >serious. >=20 > You can read about it here=20 >http://www.thewbalchannel.com/news/4083538/detail.html . > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing=20 >list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com >=20 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit=20 >http://lists.dsop.com. >=20 York, PA Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Western Maryland,=20 and Maryland & Pennsylvania. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Subject: RE: [PRR] TANGENT: Life Like Products is on Fire!!! Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:45:26 -0600 Message-ID: <2261A19CD8CAD8449EFD62CAA311A7488B3FE2@EXCHANGE.herzogcompanies.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] TANGENT: Life Like Products is on Fire!!! Thread-Index: AcT6cRr/8IvAATxaS7e+vKdny7/w1gAAFlJg From: "Bill Volkmer" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Rats. And I was just about to offer all my models up on E-Bay. No justice anymore! -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of John Frantz Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 2:42 PM To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: Re: [PRR] TANGENT: Life Like Products is on Fire!!! Listers, Just to calm any fears of any melting trains, this isn't=20 their main warehouse which is located in The Hampden=20 section of Baltimore a stones throw from the Northern=20 Centrals Woodbury station. Life-like actually owns quite a=20 few warehouses located around the city, primarily for foam=20 storage. Trains are stored in a harbor warehouse after=20 being taken from container ships. Anybody that wants to make some money selling flooded=20 trains, last year a container fell off a ship that had a=20 life-like shipment in it and is located somewhere in the=20 harbor. :-) -John Jerry Britton wrote: > The LL warehouse in Baltimore is on fire... it's pretty=20 >serious. >=20 > You can read about it here=20 >http://www.thewbalchannel.com/news/4083538/detail.html . > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing=20 >list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com >=20 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit=20 >http://lists.dsop.com. >=20 York, PA Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Western Maryland,=20 and Maryland & Pennsylvania. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: RE: [PRR] TANGENT: Life Like Products is on Fire!!! Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 19:47:11 +0000 From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] TANGENT: Life Like Products is on Fire!!! Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 20:32:02 +0000 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I suppose one could advertise claiming your intent would be, "To flood the market" and it wouldn't be misrepresentation. N Bell -------------- Original message from John Frantz : -------------- > Listers, > > Just to calm any fears of any melting trains, this isn't > their main warehouse which is located in The Hampden > section of Baltimore a stones throw from the Northern > Centrals Woodbury station. Life-like actually owns quite a > few warehouses located around the city, primarily for foam > storage. Trains are stored in a harbor warehouse after > being taken from container ships. > > Anybody that wants to make some money selling flooded > trains, last year a container fell off a ship that had a > life-like shipment in it and is located somewhere in the > harbor. :-) > > -John > > > Jerry Britton wrote: > > The LL warehouse in Baltimore is on fire... it's pretty > >serious. > > > > You can read about it here > >http://www.thewbalchannel.com/news/4083538/detail.html . > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing > >list! > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >For assistance with this list, please visit > >http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > York, PA > Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Western Maryland, > and Maryland & Pennsylvania. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 21:04:52 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] TANGENT: Life Like Products is on Fire!!! X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-5,7-28 From: Michael E Allen X-ContentStamp: 10:5:611113840 X-MAIL-INFO:3838f528881111d95cdd5c48c8d8c8fcd959c18c15b588a1c8c889714d71099c699c3c896c25e1559c08195831cdbcb99d7cf53c21e5212d0cf94c1df5081d4ccd4c2ddde18de1393d05cd35c84935cdd1ed81bc813581bccd05a9751ca97ca99538c998f86cf5f8988995c1c971fcd959c18c5971c55d5d0071a15d9c0c688ca13c79aca1d5b1b1b8a17db1193d25797d419d7cf57cad5cdd28d118d9a8d8d8 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Uh, Guys, Uh Far mor important than being one of Life Likes warehouses, the building is a former cable car powerhouse for Baltimore Traction. See Page 458 of Hilton'sThe Cable Car in America MEA On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 14:18:08 -0500 Jerry Britton writes: > The LL warehouse in Baltimore is on fire... it's pretty serious. > > You can read about it here > http://www.thewbalchannel.com/news/4083538/detail.html . > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > Michael E. Allen PTR Management Services Rocky Hill, NJ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] heavyweight sleepers in 1960's Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 21:09:27 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I don't know if it lasted until 1963, but that 14 section on the General ( and Liberty Limited until terminated) was for government personnel not authorized private room expense reimbursement. There were also a lot of such cars listed as "dormitory" in consists. I always wanted to ask this list what cars were used for this service, 14section, 12-1, or ? Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Ripley" . There is a shot of a long "General" > behind a GG1 in 1963, and the first car behind the head end is a heavyweight > sleeper (looks like a 14-section). I wonder if this was for troop movement? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chuck Friedlein" Subject: [PRR] TANGENT--Life-Like Warehouse Fire Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 23:31:30 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Guys, Those of us living in the Baltimore area found this out on the evening = news........ The warehouse was a storage facility for foam products. No model = railroad stuff stored there. BUT---more importantly, no one was in the = building, and there were no deaths or injuries. Cause is still undetermined, but under investigation. The building was the former Baltimore Traction Carbarn. Whether for = cable cars or standard street cars, I don't know. There is part of the = old roof that is structurally unstable after the fire, so a demolition = company will be hired to bring just that part down so as to try to = preserve as much of the historic old structure as possible without = further damage to it. Chuck Friedlein ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Frank Seymour" Subject: [PRR] RE: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/11/05 Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 10:45:22 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <50655.24982@dsop.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out006.verizon.net from [141.158.208.219] at Sat, 15 Jan 2005 09:45:18 -0600 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Bruce - how can I get diagrams of the rural railroad stations, whistle or flag stops on the PRR between 1890 and 1920? This is my first question to PRR talk. I find your talk fascinating. Thanks. Frank Seymour at fismour@verizon.net. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 1:11 AM To: PRR-Talk Subject: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/11/05 PRR-Talk Digest - Tuesday, January 11, 2005 Patriot News Article On Enola Yard by "Jerry Britton" Re: [PRR] PRR Lettering Available by "Jerry Britton" Announcing http://rnetzlof.pennsyrr.com by "Jerry Britton" RE: [PRR] PRR F-Units on NYC Lines. by "Bill Volkmer" Re: [PRR] PRR gas-electric motor cars by "Bruce Smith" RE: [PRR] PRR gas-electric motor cars by "Chany, Christopher" Cocoa Beach Reports? by "Jerry Britton" Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? by "Gregg Mahlkov" Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? by "Jerry Britton" Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? by "Bruce Smith" HARRIS Tower to be Produced in HO and N Scales! by "Jerry Britton" Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? by "Gregg Mahlkov" Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? by "Jerry Britton" RE: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? by "Al Buchan" Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? by Re: [PRR] PRR gas-electric motor cars by "Bob Zoeller" Classic Metalworks tractor trailer by ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Patriot News Article On Enola Yard From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 08:09:41 -0500 The Harrisburg Patriot News has an article on the Enola Yard today... celebrating its 100th year... http://www.pennlive.com/news/patriotnews/index.ssf?/base/news/ 1105352403283341.xml ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Lettering Available From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 08:33:27 -0500 Greg's fonts are now available for download from the Art section of Keystone Crossings at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/art/ Thanks, Greg! On Wednesday, January 5, 2005, at 02:13 PM, Greg Ritacco wrote: > This is a generic reply to your request for the Pennsy font. The > upper case letters are PENNSYLVANIA and K. 10 numerals are included. > The lower case letters and & and period are also included. The letters > are traced from: > C-15746 15747 7" letters > D-92250 numerals > C-93642 4" letters > The zip file includes Mac and PC TT and PS files. I've tested them, > but there is no warranty. They are provided for your use and are not > for resale. > I would also like to hear from you about how you like or don't like > them. I did them fast so they kern poorly, that much I know. > > I could also really use letters as used on the last of the wooden > cars, Bd, Bn, Pk, stuff like that, please let me know if you have a > scan available. Enjoy the font. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Announcing http://rnetzlof.pennsyrr.com From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 08:38:56 -0500 Bob Netzlof has been contributing material to a subsection of Mark Bej's Broadway Limited site (broadway.pennsyrr.com). However, due to time constraints on Mark's part since leaving the Cleveland Clinic some time ago, they agreed it would be best to separate the sites. Over the past few weeks Bob has created a new site, which is now active at http://rnetzlof.pennsyrr.com . Bob has been a great contributor to the Keystone Crossings site over the years and will manage this new site on his own. Good luck, Bob! His content on Mark's site will gradually be removed, as Mark's time permits. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR F-Units on NYC Lines. From: "Bill Volkmer" Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 08:34:42 -0600 Several of the Baldwin sharks had these appliances also. We used to refer to them as "the hook units." I'd have to look up the numbers if you want to know which ones. None of the sharks made it into the renumbering but the F units became the 1900 series, what few were left after the 1965 renumbering. Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bob Zoeller Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 9:00 PM To: PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR F-Units on NYC Lines. Page 47 of Pennsy Diesel Years 4 by Yanosey. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne S. Betty" > Do you mean the EF15a (EMD model F7) 9656A to 9661A and 9666 for use over > the NYC in the Erie PA area? > They had NYC ITS (Inductive Train Stop) equipment installed on them. Not > sure what all equipment this would include. > Other then a few mentions here and there, I do not think I have ever seen a > picture of one. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR gas-electric motor cars From: "Bruce Smith" Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 09:01:46 -0600 On Jan 8, 2005, at 7:50 PM, Bob Malberti wrote: > My name is Bob Malberti. This is my first time on PRR-talk. I am > trying to obtain the information necessary for scratchbuilding a PRR > gas-electric motor car in HO scale. I hope to build one good enough to > qualify for an NMRA Achievement Certificate. I would appreciate any > info directing me on how to get/copy blueprints or modeling articles > for this. I can be reached at pennsybrat@optonline.net Hi Bob (wasn't there a drinking game.... ), Welcome! Interesting project, and pretty appropriate as the only good models of PRR gas, or more properly diesel-electric railcars are brass models. The first issue is that it would be good to know which class of doodlebug you were interested in modeling. PRR had a variety of cars. Most of these did start out as gas powered (classes were GEW, gas-electric-westinghouse or GEG, gas-electric-GE). These were converted to diesel and re-classed OEW or OEG (oil-electric-Westinghouse/GE). Diagrams of these cars can be found at Rob Schoenberg's site: http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html? sel=gaselectric&sz=sm&fr= Photographs are widely scattered, however at least one PRR doodlebug survives and may be operated (IIRC #4666 on the Black River and Western in NJ) Once you pick a class, we can help locate photos... Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR gas-electric motor cars From: "Chany, Christopher" Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 10:20:03 -0500 Isn't there also an operating Gas electric outside of Wilmington DE. The PRRTHS had a ride on it at one meeting Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Smith [mailto:smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu] Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 10:02 AM To: Bob Malberti Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR gas-electric motor cars On Jan 8, 2005, at 7:50 PM, Bob Malberti wrote: > My name is Bob Malberti. This is my first time on PRR-talk. I am > trying to obtain the information necessary for scratchbuilding a PRR > gas-electric motor car in HO scale. I hope to build one good enough to > qualify for an NMRA Achievement Certificate. I would appreciate any > info directing me on how to get/copy blueprints or modeling articles > for this. I can be reached at pennsybrat@optonline.net Hi Bob (wasn't there a drinking game.... ), Welcome! Interesting project, and pretty appropriate as the only good models of PRR gas, or more properly diesel-electric railcars are brass models. The first issue is that it would be good to know which class of doodlebug you were interested in modeling. PRR had a variety of cars. Most of these did start out as gas powered (classes were GEW, gas-electric-westinghouse or GEG, gas-electric-GE). These were converted to diesel and re-classed OEW or OEG (oil-electric-Westinghouse/GE). Diagrams of these cars can be found at Rob Schoenberg's site: http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html? sel=gaselectric&sz=sm&fr= Photographs are widely scattered, however at least one PRR doodlebug survives and may be operated (IIRC #4666 on the Black River and Western in NJ) Once you pick a class, we can help locate photos... Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Cocoa Beach Reports? From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 11:01:17 -0500 I know some list members went to Cocoa Beach this past weekend. Any Pennsy news worth reporting? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 12:17:09 -0500 Jerry, Yes, I received a "test shot" of the N scale X23 from Mark Gasson on Saturday. Al Westerfield was impressed. Need I say more? BTW, so were Bill Schneider and Stephen Funaro. The PRRT&HS contingent had by far the largest and most impressive model display. Bill Welch gave a great clinic on Fruit Growers Express, too. Of course, Bruce Smith and Ben Hom covered the R50b and X29 superbly, too. For N scalers, Branchline models had a bunch of lasercut structures that are perfect for PRR layouts as the buildings are typical New England-Middle Atlantic design. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 11:01 AM Subject: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? >I know some list members went to Cocoa Beach this past weekend. Any Pennsy >news worth reporting? > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 12:24:40 -0500 On Monday, January 10, 2005, at 12:17 PM, Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > Yes, I received a "test shot" of the N scale X23 from Mark Gasson on > Saturday. Al Westerfield was impressed. Need I say more? Yes, please. Impressed as in "you're going to do really well with this" or impressed as in... walk away quietly, scratch head, and tell wife "maybe we ought to take another look at this"??? ;-) > > For N scalers, Branchline models had a bunch of lasercut structures > that are perfect for PRR layouts as the buildings are typical New > England-Middle Atlantic design. There are a whole slew of very nice laser cut models coming out of the woodwork these days... Branchline, Custom Model Railroads, N Scale Architect, etc. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? From: "Bruce Smith" Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 12:06:10 -0600 On Jan 10, 2005, at 10:01 AM, Jerry Britton wrote: > I know some list members went to Cocoa Beach this past weekend. Any > Pennsy news worth reporting? Well, Prototype Rails 2005, the 5th annual Cocoa Beach Prototype modelers meet is now over. We had a GREAT PRR presence there. We grabbed a corner and we had two tables in either direction of models, plus an adjacent round table for our "non-PRR" models. Ben Hom brought a printed copy of TKM and the Winter 2004 Keystone, as well as a great series of laminated posters showing the PRRPro projects. Modelers displaying included Ben Hom, Greg Martin, Stan Rydarowicz, Kris Kollar, Dave Volkmer, Greg Mahklov and myself, of course (sorry if I left anyone out, my brain is FRIED!). I have photos of most of the models on my camera, as does Ben (I think). We were a HUGE and obvious presence . I think we inspired the AT&SF guys - they think next year will be their year, but they have a long way to go... There were some fantastic clinics as alwasy. Of interest to the PRR-modeler were several including Ben Hom's on the X29, mine on the R50B (PRRPro project), and two by Bill Welch on the FGE/WFE/BRE reefer fleets. Joe Jack presented two "unofficial" clinics Friday and Saturday night after the regular clinics were over with his slides of Conway, and an arial tour of the PRR from near Pittsburgh to Altoona - incredible! The biggest news for me came from two clinics about the Bob Charles photo collection. This collection was purchased by past NMRA president Charles from a widow somewhere in PA, sometime in the 1970s (he can't remember exactly, and there are no photo credits). The collection has been donated to the NMRA Kalmbach library and has sort of sat there until now... What is it? Only somewhere over 500 photographs shot in and around Harrisburg in 1946-48!!!!! Un-believable!!! About 90% of the shots appear to be on the PRR while the remainder are on the Reading. Ted Culotta showed lots of shots of house cars, reefers and a few others, while Larry Kline did the hoppers and gons. NMRA will be releasing a new book edited by Culotta and Kline with over 300 photos (mostly of the non-PRR cars, but with representative PRR photos as well) sometime this summer (hopefully before the convention). This book will be a MUST HAVE for the serious Pennsy modeler, as it will give a "snapshot" of the foreign cars on the road. I wrote down some 15 or more foreign hopper cars and didn't get them all... how about Central of Georgia? There is the potential that the PRR part of the collection could be published as a separate book... Not too much news from the manufacturers. Walthers had test shots of some more of their cars, including the heavyweight diner (Southern prototype) and their new wood express reefer (General American). Both look nice. Bill Wischer of Walthers told me that the B60B molds should begin to be cut soon, and that they look good for a mid-year arrival. Stan Rydarowicz was displaying his model of the single panel side GLF (Bowser GLA with resin panels) which he is selling and of course he had his F30 parts. Bill Schneider was there from Branchline with their cars, although no FOM 12-1 or other tuscan cars other than the John Jay 12-1 that I reviewed in TKM and as noted, some nice structures. Mr. Greene of Bethlehem Car Works was displaying the etched brass sides for the B60A. He had both early (rectangular windows in the sides and doors) and late (porthole window) versions. As most of you know, I'm not an etched brass fan, but he has managed to get 3 levels of detail on these sides - rivets, battens and panels - albeit shallow, and in fact soldering the door behind does give even more depth. He also had his line of trucks there. F & C and Westerfield were both there, although with nothing new on the PRR side. I did talk to Al about the R7 and he indicated that the big hold up is past (he hopes ), so, it is coming. A bunch of us talked about getting a set of decals done for National refrigerator cars, including Kahn's, as the PRR RF reefers were first transferred to FGE and then to National, and some remained in service until at least the late 1940's! Greg Mahlkov has already mentioned the n-scale resin X23 prototype. Finally Ted Culotta was there selling the 1932 AAR boxcar book and some incredibly nice SOUTHERN decals as well as decals for the as-yet-to-be-release IM AT&SF stock car (the kits will be undec). Now I need to get some work done to pay for what I bought! Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: HARRIS Tower to be Produced in HO and N Scales! From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:24:58 -0500 Product Announcement... Merchandise Service has commissioned The N Scale Architect to produce HARRIS tower in HO and N scales. The N Scale Architect recently produced ALTO tower and the response was excellent. The HARRIS tower model will only be available through Merchandise Service. More information is available at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/ms_ar.html . Scroll down to "Due in July". Thank you! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 15:24:22 -0500 Jerry, Al Westerfield was very complementary. He said that the X23 was the one car design he did not feel competent to do the master on himself so had help from two professional modelmakers. But this will be up to his standards. There are still a couple of minor "glitches" - like getting the roof to seat properly. But the details are fantastic, like freestanding brake lines, and proper shape and dimensions for all the stamped bracing. It will be a "knock your socks off" model. Mark does not want photos released until it is perfected. BTW, Bruce mentioned the R7's - Fruit Growers still had 114 of these in 1953 per Bill Welch's clinic!!!! Gotta get after Mark about that. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "Gregg Mahlkov" Cc: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? > On Monday, January 10, 2005, at 12:17 PM, Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > >> Yes, I received a "test shot" of the N scale X23 from Mark Gasson on >> Saturday. Al Westerfield was impressed. Need I say more? > > Yes, please. Impressed as in "you're going to do really well with this" or > impressed as in... walk away quietly, scratch head, and tell wife "maybe > we ought to take another look at this"??? ;-) >> >> For N scalers, Branchline models had a bunch of lasercut structures that >> are perfect for PRR layouts as the buildings are typical New >> England-Middle Atlantic design. > > There are a whole slew of very nice laser cut models coming out of the > woodwork these days... Branchline, Custom Model Railroads, N Scale > Architect, etc. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 15:29:07 -0500 On Monday, January 10, 2005, at 03:24 PM, Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > Al Westerfield was very complementary. He said that the X23 was the > one car design he did not feel competent to do the master on himself > so had help from two professional modelmakers. But this will be up to > his standards. There are still a couple of minor "glitches" - like > getting the roof to seat properly. But the details are fantastic, like > freestanding brake lines, and proper shape and dimensions for all the > stamped bracing. It will be a "knock your socks off" model. Mark does > not want photos released until it is perfected. I'm not jumping up and down for the X23. Only 12 were remaining in 1954 when I am modeling. That means, if the rail fan was really lucky, ONE might go by!!! Of course, NX23's (?) might be another story! > > BTW, Bruce mentioned the R7's - Fruit Growers still had 114 of these > in 1953 per Bill Welch's clinic!!!! Gotta get after Mark about that. Interesting! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? From: "Al Buchan" Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 16:05:17 -0500 Re: I'm not jumping up and down for the X23. Only 12 were remaining in 1954 when I am modeling. But there were many in work equipment status. Al ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? From: Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 21:06:30 +0000 Jerry Britton wrote: "I'm not jumping up and down for the X23. Only 12 were remaining in 1954 when I am modeling. That means, if the rail fan was really lucky, ONE might go by!!! Of course, NX23's (?) might be another story!" Maybe not in revenue service, but the mid-1950s PRR modeler can certainly use Class X23 camp and tool cars and Class NX23 cabins in work service. Ben Hom ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR gas-electric motor cars From: "Bob Zoeller" Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:07:09 -0600 I am interested in Images Replicas announced PRR OEW 330 Pullman Gas Electric #4663. http://www.imagesreplicas.com/new.htm (if that link goes through). Anyone know any details? Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Smith" Interesting project, and pretty appropriate as the only good > models of PRR gas, or more properly diesel-electric railcars are brass > models. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Classic Metalworks tractor trailer From: Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:12:11 EST I work for Roadway; to the best of my knowledge did not begin using intermodal until the late 1970's (union agreements hadn't been worked out in the 50's). You could still use them for lineside settings for nearly anywhere in the PRR system. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of PRR-Talk Digest ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: [PRR] Rural Flagstop stations Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 11:40:52 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/665/Fri Jan 14 15:49:38 2005 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.bluemoon.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Frank, there is a book out there by Jeff Scherb titled "Trackside on the Pennsylvania" Standard plans of the Standard Railroad of the World. It contains many Cad drawing from early in the 20th century, including a passenger shelter, towers, and toolhouses but no standard station. However I think you'll find the book interesting. I also believe there is a second volume out. Brian J Carlson P.E. Cheektowaga NY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Seymour" To: Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 10:45 AM Subject: [PRR] RE: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/11/05 > Bruce - how can I get diagrams of the rural railroad stations, whistle > or flag stops on the PRR between 1890 and 1920? This is my first > question to PRR talk. I find your talk fascinating. Thanks. Frank > Seymour at fismour@verizon.net. > > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 1:11 AM > To: PRR-Talk > Subject: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/11/05 > > PRR-Talk Digest - Tuesday, January 11, 2005 > > Patriot News Article On Enola Yard > by "Jerry Britton" > Re: [PRR] PRR Lettering Available > by "Jerry Britton" > Announcing http://rnetzlof.pennsyrr.com > by "Jerry Britton" > RE: [PRR] PRR F-Units on NYC Lines. > by "Bill Volkmer" > Re: [PRR] PRR gas-electric motor cars > by "Bruce Smith" > RE: [PRR] PRR gas-electric motor cars > by "Chany, Christopher" > Cocoa Beach Reports? > by "Jerry Britton" > Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? > by "Gregg Mahlkov" > Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? > by "Jerry Britton" > Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? > by "Bruce Smith" > HARRIS Tower to be Produced in HO and N Scales! > by "Jerry Britton" > Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? > by "Gregg Mahlkov" > Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? > by "Jerry Britton" > RE: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? > by "Al Buchan" > Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? > by > Re: [PRR] PRR gas-electric motor cars > by "Bob Zoeller" > Classic Metalworks tractor trailer > by > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Patriot News Article On Enola Yard > From: "Jerry Britton" > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 08:09:41 -0500 > > The Harrisburg Patriot News has an article on the Enola Yard today... > celebrating its 100th year... > > http://www.pennlive.com/news/patriotnews/index.ssf?/base/news/ > 1105352403283341.xml > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Lettering Available > From: "Jerry Britton" > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 08:33:27 -0500 > > Greg's fonts are now available for download from the Art section of > Keystone Crossings at > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com/art/ > > Thanks, Greg! > > On Wednesday, January 5, 2005, at 02:13 PM, Greg Ritacco wrote: > > > This is a generic reply to your request for the Pennsy font. The > > upper case letters are PENNSYLVANIA and K. 10 numerals are included. > > The lower case letters and & and period are also included. The letters > > > are traced from: > > C-15746 15747 7" letters > > D-92250 numerals > > C-93642 4" letters > > The zip file includes Mac and PC TT and PS files. I've tested them, > > but there is no warranty. They are provided for your use and are not > > for resale. > > I would also like to hear from you about how you like or don't like > > them. I did them fast so they kern poorly, that much I know. > > > > I could also really use letters as used on the last of the wooden > > cars, Bd, Bn, Pk, stuff like that, please let me know if you have a > > scan available. Enjoy the font. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Announcing http://rnetzlof.pennsyrr.com > From: "Jerry Britton" > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 08:38:56 -0500 > > Bob Netzlof has been contributing material to a subsection of Mark > Bej's Broadway Limited site (broadway.pennsyrr.com). However, due to > time constraints on Mark's part since leaving the Cleveland Clinic some > time ago, they agreed it would be best to separate the sites. > > Over the past few weeks Bob has created a new site, which is now active > at http://rnetzlof.pennsyrr.com . Bob has been a great contributor to > the Keystone Crossings site over the years and will manage this new > site on his own. Good luck, Bob! > > His content on Mark's site will gradually be removed, as Mark's time > permits. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR F-Units on NYC Lines. > From: "Bill Volkmer" > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 08:34:42 -0600 > > Several of the Baldwin sharks had these appliances also. We used to > refer to them as "the hook units." I'd have to look up the numbers if > you want to know which ones. None of the sharks made it into the > renumbering but the F units became the 1900 series, what few were left > after the 1965 renumbering. > > Bill V. > > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bob > Zoeller > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 9:00 PM > To: PRR-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR F-Units on NYC Lines. > > Page 47 of Pennsy Diesel Years 4 by Yanosey. > > Bob Zoeller > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wayne S. Betty" > > Do you mean the EF15a (EMD model F7) 9656A to 9661A and 9666 for use > over > > the NYC in the Erie PA area? > > They had NYC ITS (Inductive Train Stop) equipment installed on them. > Not > > sure what all equipment this would include. > > Other then a few mentions here and there, I do not think I have ever > seen > a > > picture of one. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR gas-electric motor cars > From: "Bruce Smith" > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 09:01:46 -0600 > > > On Jan 8, 2005, at 7:50 PM, Bob Malberti wrote: > > > My name is Bob Malberti. This is my first time on PRR-talk. I am > > trying to obtain the information necessary for scratchbuilding a PRR > > gas-electric motor car in HO scale. I hope to build one good enough to > > > qualify for an NMRA Achievement Certificate. I would appreciate any > > info directing me on how to get/copy blueprints or modeling articles > > for this. I can be reached at pennsybrat@optonline.net > > Hi Bob (wasn't there a drinking game.... ), > > Welcome! Interesting project, and pretty appropriate as the only good > models of PRR gas, or more properly diesel-electric railcars are brass > models. The first issue is that it would be good to know which class > of doodlebug you were interested in modeling. PRR had a variety of > cars. Most of these did start out as gas powered (classes were GEW, > gas-electric-westinghouse or GEG, gas-electric-GE). These were > converted to diesel and re-classed OEW or OEG > (oil-electric-Westinghouse/GE). Diagrams of these cars can be found at > > Rob Schoenberg's site: > http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html? > sel=gaselectric&sz=sm&fr= > > Photographs are widely scattered, however at least one PRR doodlebug > survives and may be operated (IIRC #4666 on the Black River and Western > > in NJ) Once you pick a class, we can help locate photos... > > Regards > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith > Auburn, AL > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin > Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR gas-electric motor cars > From: "Chany, Christopher" > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 10:20:03 -0500 > > Isn't there also an operating Gas electric outside of Wilmington DE. The > PRRTHS had a ride on it at one meeting > > Chris Chany > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce Smith [mailto:smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu] > Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 10:02 AM > To: Bob Malberti > Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR gas-electric motor cars > > > > On Jan 8, 2005, at 7:50 PM, Bob Malberti wrote: > > > My name is Bob Malberti. This is my first time on PRR-talk. I am > > trying to obtain the information necessary for scratchbuilding a PRR > > gas-electric motor car in HO scale. I hope to build one good enough to > > > qualify for an NMRA Achievement Certificate. I would appreciate any > > info directing me on how to get/copy blueprints or modeling articles > > for this. I can be reached at pennsybrat@optonline.net > > Hi Bob (wasn't there a drinking game.... ), > > Welcome! Interesting project, and pretty appropriate as the only good > models of PRR gas, or more properly diesel-electric railcars are brass > models. The first issue is that it would be good to know which class > of doodlebug you were interested in modeling. PRR had a variety of > cars. Most of these did start out as gas powered (classes were GEW, > gas-electric-westinghouse or GEG, gas-electric-GE). These were > converted to diesel and re-classed OEW or OEG > (oil-electric-Westinghouse/GE). Diagrams of these cars can be found at > > Rob Schoenberg's site: > http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html? > sel=gaselectric&sz=sm&fr= > > Photographs are widely scattered, however at least one PRR doodlebug > survives and may be operated (IIRC #4666 on the Black River and Western > > in NJ) Once you pick a class, we can help locate photos... > > Regards > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith > Auburn, AL > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin > Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Cocoa Beach Reports? > From: "Jerry Britton" > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 11:01:17 -0500 > > I know some list members went to Cocoa Beach this past weekend. Any > Pennsy news worth reporting? > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? > From: "Gregg Mahlkov" > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 12:17:09 -0500 > > Jerry, > > Yes, I received a "test shot" of the N scale X23 from Mark Gasson on > Saturday. Al Westerfield was impressed. Need I say more? BTW, so were > Bill > Schneider and Stephen Funaro. > > The PRRT&HS contingent had by far the largest and most impressive model > display. Bill Welch gave a great clinic on Fruit Growers Express, too. > Of > course, Bruce Smith and Ben Hom covered the R50b and X29 superbly, too. > > For N scalers, Branchline models had a bunch of lasercut structures that > are > perfect for PRR layouts as the buildings are typical New England-Middle > Atlantic design. > > Gregg Mahlkov > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Britton" > To: "PRR-Talk LIST" > Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 11:01 AM > Subject: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? > > > >I know some list members went to Cocoa Beach this past weekend. Any > Pennsy > >news worth reporting? > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? > From: "Jerry Britton" > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 12:24:40 -0500 > > On Monday, January 10, 2005, at 12:17 PM, Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > > > Yes, I received a "test shot" of the N scale X23 from Mark Gasson on > > Saturday. Al Westerfield was impressed. Need I say more? > > Yes, please. Impressed as in "you're going to do really well with this" > or impressed as in... walk away quietly, scratch head, and tell wife > "maybe we ought to take another look at this"??? ;-) > > > > For N scalers, Branchline models had a bunch of lasercut structures > > that are perfect for PRR layouts as the buildings are typical New > > England-Middle Atlantic design. > > There are a whole slew of very nice laser cut models coming out of the > woodwork these days... Branchline, Custom Model Railroads, N Scale > Architect, etc. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? > From: "Bruce Smith" > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 12:06:10 -0600 > > On Jan 10, 2005, at 10:01 AM, Jerry Britton wrote: > > > I know some list members went to Cocoa Beach this past weekend. Any > > Pennsy news worth reporting? > > Well, Prototype Rails 2005, the 5th annual Cocoa Beach Prototype > modelers meet is now over. We had a GREAT PRR presence there. We > grabbed a corner and we had two tables in either direction of models, > plus an adjacent round table for our "non-PRR" models. Ben Hom brought > a printed copy of TKM and the Winter 2004 Keystone, as well as a great > series of laminated posters showing the PRRPro projects. Modelers > displaying included Ben Hom, Greg Martin, Stan Rydarowicz, Kris Kollar, > Dave Volkmer, Greg Mahklov and myself, of course (sorry if I left > anyone out, my brain is FRIED!). I have photos of most of the models > on my camera, as does Ben (I think). We were a HUGE and obvious > presence . I think we inspired the AT&SF guys - they think next > year will be their year, but they have a long way to go... > > There were some fantastic clinics as alwasy. Of interest to the > PRR-modeler were several including Ben Hom's on the X29, mine on the > R50B (PRRPro project), and two by Bill Welch on the FGE/WFE/BRE reefer > fleets. Joe Jack presented two "unofficial" clinics Friday and > Saturday night after the regular clinics were over with his slides of > Conway, and an arial tour of the PRR from near Pittsburgh to Altoona - > incredible! > > The biggest news for me came from two clinics about the Bob Charles > photo collection. This collection was purchased by past NMRA president > Charles from a widow somewhere in PA, sometime in the 1970s (he can't > remember exactly, and there are no photo credits). The collection has > been donated to the NMRA Kalmbach library and has sort of sat there > until now... What is it? Only somewhere over 500 photographs shot in > and around Harrisburg in 1946-48!!!!! Un-believable!!! About 90% of > the shots appear to be on the PRR while the remainder are on the > Reading. Ted Culotta showed lots of shots of house cars, reefers and a > few others, while Larry Kline did the hoppers and gons. NMRA will be > releasing a new book edited by Culotta and Kline with over 300 photos > (mostly of the non-PRR cars, but with representative PRR photos as > well) sometime this summer (hopefully before the convention). This > book will be a MUST HAVE for the serious Pennsy modeler, as it will > give a "snapshot" of the foreign cars on the road. I wrote down some > 15 or more foreign hopper cars and didn't get them all... how about > Central of Georgia? There is the potential that the PRR part of the > collection could be published as a separate book... > > Not too much news from the manufacturers. Walthers had test shots of > some more of their cars, including the heavyweight diner (Southern > prototype) and their new wood express reefer (General American). Both > look nice. Bill Wischer of Walthers told me that the B60B molds should > begin to be cut soon, and that they look good for a mid-year arrival. > Stan Rydarowicz was displaying his model of the single panel side GLF > (Bowser GLA with resin panels) which he is selling and of course he had > his F30 parts. Bill Schneider was there from Branchline with their > cars, although no FOM 12-1 or other tuscan cars other than the John Jay > 12-1 that I reviewed in TKM and as noted, some nice structures. Mr. > Greene of Bethlehem Car Works was displaying the etched brass sides for > the B60A. He had both early (rectangular windows in the sides and > doors) and late (porthole window) versions. As most of you know, I'm > not an etched brass fan, but he has managed to get 3 levels of detail > on these sides - rivets, battens and panels - albeit shallow, and in > fact soldering the door behind does give even more depth. He also had > his line of trucks there. F & C and Westerfield were both there, > although with nothing new on the PRR side. I did talk to Al about the > R7 and he indicated that the big hold up is past (he hopes ), so, it > is coming. A bunch of us talked about getting a set of decals done for > National refrigerator cars, including Kahn's, as the PRR RF reefers > were first transferred to FGE and then to National, and some remained > in service until at least the late 1940's! Greg Mahlkov has already > mentioned the n-scale resin X23 prototype. Finally Ted Culotta was > there selling the 1932 AAR boxcar book and some incredibly nice > SOUTHERN decals as well as decals for the as-yet-to-be-release IM AT&SF > stock car (the kits will be undec). > > Now I need to get some work done to pay for what I bought! > > Regards > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith > Auburn, AL > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin > Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: HARRIS Tower to be Produced in HO and N Scales! > From: "Jerry Britton" > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:24:58 -0500 > > Product Announcement... > > Merchandise Service has commissioned The N Scale Architect to produce > HARRIS tower in HO and N scales. The N Scale Architect recently > produced ALTO tower and the response was excellent. The HARRIS tower > model will only be available through Merchandise Service. > > More information is available at > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/ms_ar.html . Scroll down to "Due in > July". > > Thank you! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? > From: "Gregg Mahlkov" > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 15:24:22 -0500 > > Jerry, > > Al Westerfield was very complementary. He said that the X23 was the one > car > design he did not feel competent to do the master on himself so had help > > from two professional modelmakers. But this will be up to his standards. > > There are still a couple of minor "glitches" - like getting the roof to > seat > properly. But the details are fantastic, like freestanding brake lines, > and > proper shape and dimensions for all the stamped bracing. It will be a > "knock > your socks off" model. Mark does not want photos released until it is > perfected. > > BTW, Bruce mentioned the R7's - Fruit Growers still had 114 of these in > 1953 > per Bill Welch's clinic!!!! Gotta get after Mark about that. > > Gregg Mahlkov > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Britton" > To: "Gregg Mahlkov" > Cc: "PRR-Talk LIST" > Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 12:24 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? > > > > On Monday, January 10, 2005, at 12:17 PM, Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > > > >> Yes, I received a "test shot" of the N scale X23 from Mark Gasson on > >> Saturday. Al Westerfield was impressed. Need I say more? > > > > Yes, please. Impressed as in "you're going to do really well with > this" or > > impressed as in... walk away quietly, scratch head, and tell wife > "maybe > > we ought to take another look at this"??? ;-) > >> > >> For N scalers, Branchline models had a bunch of lasercut structures > that > >> are perfect for PRR layouts as the buildings are typical New > >> England-Middle Atlantic design. > > > > There are a whole slew of very nice laser cut models coming out of the > > > woodwork these days... Branchline, Custom Model Railroads, N Scale > > Architect, etc. > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? > From: "Jerry Britton" > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 15:29:07 -0500 > > On Monday, January 10, 2005, at 03:24 PM, Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > > > Al Westerfield was very complementary. He said that the X23 was the > > one car design he did not feel competent to do the master on himself > > so had help from two professional modelmakers. But this will be up to > > his standards. There are still a couple of minor "glitches" - like > > getting the roof to seat properly. But the details are fantastic, like > > > freestanding brake lines, and proper shape and dimensions for all the > > stamped bracing. It will be a "knock your socks off" model. Mark does > > not want photos released until it is perfected. > > I'm not jumping up and down for the X23. Only 12 were remaining in 1954 > when I am modeling. That means, if the rail fan was really lucky, ONE > might go by!!! > > Of course, NX23's (?) might be another story! > > > > BTW, Bruce mentioned the R7's - Fruit Growers still had 114 of these > > in 1953 per Bill Welch's clinic!!!! Gotta get after Mark about that. > > Interesting! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: RE: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? > From: "Al Buchan" > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 16:05:17 -0500 > > Re: I'm not jumping up and down for the X23. Only 12 were remaining in > 1954 when I am modeling. > > But there were many in work equipment status. > > Al > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? > From: > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 21:06:30 +0000 > > Jerry Britton wrote: > "I'm not jumping up and down for the X23. Only 12 were remaining in 1954 > > when I am modeling. That means, if the rail fan was really lucky, ONE > might go by!!! Of course, NX23's (?) might be another story!" > > Maybe not in revenue service, but the mid-1950s PRR modeler can > certainly use Class X23 camp and tool cars and Class NX23 cabins in work > service. > > > Ben Hom > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR gas-electric motor cars > From: "Bob Zoeller" > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:07:09 -0600 > > > > > I am interested in Images Replicas announced PRR OEW 330 Pullman Gas > Electric #4663. http://www.imagesreplicas.com/new.htm (if that link goes > through). Anyone know any details? > > Bob Zoeller > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bruce Smith" > Interesting project, and pretty appropriate as the only good > > models of PRR gas, or more properly diesel-electric railcars are brass > > models. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Classic Metalworks tractor trailer > From: > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:12:11 EST > > I work for Roadway; to the best of my knowledge did not begin using > intermodal > until the late 1970's (union agreements hadn't been worked out in the > 50's). > You could still use them for lineside settings for nearly anywhere in > the PRR > system. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > End of PRR-Talk Digest > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 14:53:31 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: [PRR] Enola at 100 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com To all Listmembers: PRR's Enola Yard along the Susquehanna River opened gradually over a period of a few days, January 15-18. The first of those days was January 15, 1905, making today the centenary of the initial stages of its opening. A few milestones: 1930s container yard opened 1938 electrification 1938 eastbound class yard equipped with retarders 1944 westbound class yard equipped with retarders 1947 diesel shop built 1957 last steam operation 1968 Penn Central merger 1976 Conrail merger 1979 last GG1s operated in freight service 1980s end of electrification, end of eastbound class yard 1992 end of westbound class yard 1999 Norfolk Southern purchases property 2002 NS reopens westbound class yard Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] Enola at 100 Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 16:35:42 -0500 To: Dan Cupper X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Jan 15, 2005, at 2:53 PM, Dan Cupper wrote: > PRR's Enola Yard along the Susquehanna River opened gradually over a > period of a few days, January 15-18. The first of those days was > January 15, 1905, making today the centenary of the initial stages of > its opening. And a plug... in a few months Dan will be releasing a book on the Enola yards, much as he did for the centennial of the Rockville Bridge. Look for it later this spring. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Enola at 100 Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 17:49:15 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <683CCECB-673D-11D9-A8D6-000A95C04372@pennsyrr.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Re: in a few months Dan will be releasing a book on the Enola yards, much as he did for the centennial of the Rockville Bridge. Look for it later this spring. We are very pleased that Dan will also be making a presentation on Enola Yard during the PRRT&HS Annual Meeting, May 12-22, 2005. He no doubt will also have copies of his book available so you all can acquire an autographed copy. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hanel29@att.net Subject: [PRR] Resin Trains BP-20 shells Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 01:55:13 +0000 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com List - Can anyone guide me to a place where I might purchase the Resin Trains Bp-20 shells? - Thank you. Hank ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 18:46:38 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] Resin Trains BP-20 shells From: "Ken Hough " Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 21:52:53 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Our Clubs Laser-Cut-Helix From: STEVEGG1@aol.com Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 00:03:02 EST Subject: [PRR] Cockeysville, MD local X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Greetings to everyone, There is a rumor that the local freight that runs from Balto to Cockeysville, MD over former PRR right of way is going to be cancelled. Does anyone know if this is true? Perhaps it is being postponed because of double track construction? Thank you Steve Panopoulos ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Charlie" Subject: [PRR] Looking Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 11:04:20 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Gents, Looking to send a note to Joe Acuri, might anyone have his e-mail address? Thanks. Charlie ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chuck Friedlein" Subject: Re: [PRR] Cockeysville, MD local Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 13:59:34 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Don't think so. The only thing that is shut down is the light rail so single tracked parts can be double tracked. Since the local freight runs at night, it'll probably continue--there's a quarry and a couple of other rail-dependent users on the line. Chuck Friedlein ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 12:03 AM Subject: [PRR] Cockeysville, MD local > Greetings to everyone, > There is a rumor that the local freight that runs from Balto to Cockeysville, > MD over former PRR right of way is going to be cancelled. Does anyone know if > this is true? Perhaps it is being postponed because of double track > construction? > Thank you > Steve Panopoulos > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] Resin Trains BP-20 shells Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 14:47:51 -0500 To: hanel29@att.net X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Jan 15, 2005, at 8:55 PM, hanel29@att.net wrote: > List - Can anyone guide me to a place where I might purchase the Resin > Trains Bp-20 shells? - Thank you. Hank On Jan 15, 2005, at 9:46 PM, Bill Daniels wrote: > You could always try the listmeister's sales site, > Merchandise Service. Check on Jerry's PRR webpage for > a link. Well... Yes, Merchandise Service does offer these shells. Formerly offered by Miracle Castings, then unavailable for several years, one of the original partners revived them through a new company, Resin Trains. However, the new company seems to be no better at keeping promises, ship dates, responding to e-mail, etc. To that end, MS only offers the product on a special order basis and with the disclaimer that lead times can dramatically fluctuate from 4 to 10 weeks!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 15:34:10 -0700 From: Sandra & Peter Dawes Subject: [PRR] 1967 consists and photos X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I'm looking for some assistance. I'm working on a rail travel project which involves compiling my trips = in the form of a travel log featuring train consists. I've developed = surrogate consists prior to beginning to record them early in 1974 but = have actuals from then on. =20 I made three trips on the Pennsylvania way back in November of 1967: = Wilmington-New York (Colonial, No. 170); New York-Philadelphia = (Afternoon Congressional, No. 153); and Philadelphia-Wilmington (Gulf = Coast Special, No. 141). I've been trying (unsuccessfully so far) to = obtain specific consists, or at least train make-ups, for these trains. I've consulted the Keystone Crossings document, OCTOBER 24, 1964 = PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD CONSISTS. The Boston-Washington section shows = (hope this is correct): COLONIAL: entire consist in both directions PRR including: - one Parlor (29 chairs-1 DR); - one Observation-Parlor-Lounge (14 chairs-25 Lounge seats). SENATOR: mixed, with meal cars alternating (NH Grill; PRR Diner) and = through Coaches split between the two; as well as: - two NH Parlors (36 chairs); - one NH Baggage-Parlor-Lounge-Bar (1 DR, 2 Day Roomettes, 14 chairs and = 11 Lounge seats) alternating with one PRR Parlor-Lounge-Buffet (6 Double = Bedrooms and unspecified Lounge seats). PATRIOT: through cars all NH, including: - two NH Parlors (36 chairs); - one NH Parlor-Lounge-Bar (3 DR, 2 Day Roomettes, 28 Lounge seats). Now to 1967. I have PRR's Oct. 29/67 Washington-Philadelphia-Boston = timetable. In the "Passenger Equipment" listing, the notation "Bar = Lounge, Day Roomettes, and Drawing Room" appears for the Colonial, = Senator and Patriot, in both directions (i.e., all Boston-Washington day = trains). This suggests that, by 1967, New Haven Parlors were operating = on all of these trains, probably supplemented by PRR Parlors of various = types on at least some. Does anyone on this list know where I could obtain specific November of = 1967 consists for the trains I took? Or train make-ups equivalent to = those in the 1964 Keystone document? Additionally, I'm having a difficult time finding action photographs of = the Afternoon Congressional and/or Colonial in the last years of the = PRR. Do you know where I might be able to obtain one or two? (I would = of course provide full credit and pay for any associated costs and = reasonable fees.) Thanks for considering this, Peter Dawes Edmonton Alberta Canada ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 20:44:19 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] A question about station names From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 00:03:55 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] A question about station names MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Bob, Interesting question. Can't help with the ones you asked about but here is a for example. The small town of Homewood (not the one in Pittsburgh) but rather the one at mile post 34 west of Pittsburgh on the ft wayne main line is known as Homewood Jct. This is where the Kopple secondary cuts away from the main. In early photographs the Tower sign was a long rectangle probably made of wood which I believe read HOMEWOOD. Can't remember if JCT or JUNCTION was included. I will check. Later there was a cast iron Tower Sign installed in the shape of the famous Keystone. On this sign just the word WOOD appeared. So the examples you gave may actually had variations as well. I can say that I never seen a sign that said JUNC....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Hough " Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 23:08:52 -0600 Subject: [PRR] New Images at Railimages From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: RE: [PRR] Resin Trains BP-20 shells Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:12:22 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <81BEC035-67F7-11D9-AADF-000A95C04372@pennsyrr.com> Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jan 2005 14:12:03.0130 (UTC) FILETIME=[848111A0:01C4FC9E] Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Somebody Remind me what is the mechanism that is used for these? Or better yet which mechanism works best for this unit? Sam Vastano -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Jerry @ Pennsy Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 2:48 PM To: hanel29@att.net Cc: PRR-talk Subject: Re: [PRR] Resin Trains BP-20 shells On Jan 15, 2005, at 8:55 PM, hanel29@att.net wrote: > List - Can anyone guide me to a place where I might purchase the Resin > Trains Bp-20 shells? - Thank you. Hank On Jan 15, 2005, at 9:46 PM, Bill Daniels wrote: > You could always try the listmeister's sales site, > Merchandise Service. Check on Jerry's PRR webpage for > a link. Well... Yes, Merchandise Service does offer these shells. Formerly offered by Miracle Castings, then unavailable for several years, one of the original partners revived them through a new company, Resin Trains. However, the new company seems to be no better at keeping promises, ship dates, responding to e-mail, etc. To that end, MS only offers the product on a special order basis and with the disclaimer that lead times can dramatically fluctuate from 4 to 10 weeks!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:20:31 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Resin Trains BP-20 shells From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Monday, January 17, 2005, at 09:12 AM, Sam Vastano wrote: > Somebody Remind me what is the mechanism that is used for these? Or > better yet which mechanism works best for this unit? Designed for an Athearn PA/PB. Years back, I know some had experimented with LL Proto PA/PB's. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Brass steam DCC articles/resources Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:06:07 +0000 Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:23:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Brass steam DCC articles/resources From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Monday, January 17, 2005, at 10:06 AM, Ted Andrews wrote: > Does anyone know if there are any good articles or on-line references > in converting HO brass steam to DCC? I have several PRR steam engines, > most of them professionally painted by our own Gary Mittner, and I > would like to take a stab at converting some to DCC. > > I am aware that allot of brass steam are from different manufacturers > and that the DCC format may be different. However, I would be looking > at your typical PFM/United, Alco/KTM and Samhongsa brass > engines.......those model builders basically standardized their model > construction and hence DCC should be routine after you do the first > one. > > I know that this is really not PRR content but if any of you can > contact me off list that would be great. If anyone wants to photo-document the process of converting brass PRR locomotives, I'd be happy to host a series of such articles on the Keystone Crossings web site for future users to benefit from. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:31:17 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Schuylkill Div Etched Plates, MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com List, Any one had contact with Doug Jones of Schuylkill Div lately? Havn't had any replys back from my inquiries to him for 3-4 months? Hope all is well. Thanks, Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:13:24 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: RE: [PRR] Resin Trains BP-20 shells Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 08:37:12 -0800 From: Ed Workman Subject: [PRR] PRR standards on the web From: "Frank Seymour" From: "Bill Godby" Subject: [PRR] Bob Lorenz photos Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 13:11:04 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On page 29 of The 50 Best of PRR Book 4 there is a photo of K4s 8278 = that looks like it is heading west to Crestline. The caption is listed = near Mansfield, Ohio? In the background there appears to be a large = house or barn. There are not many roads that cross the line between = Crestline and Mansfield.=20 Does anyone have a copy of this photo that they could send a high rez = scan of?? I just can`t make out very much detail in the book. I am = curious to see if I can locate the location this photo was taken from. Thanks, Bill Godby PRRT&HS #7162 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR standards on the web Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 13:18:28 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20050117083019.030c9758@mail.arrival.net> X-PMX-Version: 4.7.0.111621, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.2.0, Antispam-Data: 2005.1.17.4 X-PerlMx-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIII, Probability=7%, Report='__CT 0, __CTE 0, __CTYPE_CHARSET_QUOTED 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __HAS_MSMAIL_PRI 0, __HAS_X_MAILER 0, __HAS_X_PRIORITY 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __SANE_MSGID 0' Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi all, Unfortunately there really aren't any station plans on my website. The plans show some of the detail for stations but not the stations themselves... Pat McKinney has been selling photocopies of a 1907 PRR station book: PRR Station Plan Book,Copy of 1907 book,71 stations E. of Pgh, a front view, a cross sect. view & shows location, 8 towers, sig bridges-2 thru 8 tracks wide. 90 pgs, 8-1/2 x11 $25 You can e-mail him to see if he still has any... (at PKMac101@aol.com) Rob -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Ed Workman Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 11:37 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] PRR standards on the web Try this site see 54559 and lots more http://prr.railfan.net/standards/ It's an awesome site with links to many other sources of goodstuff From: "Frank Seymour" To: > > Bruce - how can I get diagrams of the rural railroad stations, whistle > > or flag stops on the PRR between 1890 and 1920? and, it would be cool if you could snip the part of the digest you wanted to reply to instead of sending back the whole enchilada regards Ed ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: RE: [PRR] Resin Trains BP-20 shells Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:28:23 +0000 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com This kit inlcudes a new chassis. Basically you use the trucks and motor and extend at least one drive shaft with a supplied part. I don't think you could easily use anything else since the body screws to the chassis and the truck mounting is identical to the Athearn drive. The full instructions are on their website. It doesn't look to hard to do. -------------- Original message from Derrick J Brashear : -------------- > The Athearn PA-1 chassis was what the original directions said. I mean to > use Life-Like's. > > On Mon, 17 Jan 2005, Sam Vastano wrote: > > > Somebody Remind me what is the mechanism that is used for these? Or > > better yet which mechanism works best for this unit? > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Resin Trains BP-20 shells Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:44:30 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I'd find it interestig if you could use a Hobbytown PA1=20 chassis with some modification. All of thier kits are now=20 DCC friendly with can motors. The power chassis kit is=20 only $60.00 www.bearlocomotive.com Regards, John Derrick J Brashear wrote: > The Athearn PA-1 chassis was what the original=20 >directions said. I mean to use Life-Like's. >=20 > On Mon, 17 Jan 2005, Sam Vastano wrote: >=20 >> Somebody Remind me what is the mechanism that is used=20 >>for these? Or >> better yet which mechanism works best for this unit? >> >=20 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit=20 >http://lists.dsop.com. >=20 York, PA Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Western Maryland,=20 and Maryland & Pennsylvania. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:19:16 -0600 Subject: [PRR] (PRR) Pennsy passenger car in Winslow, Arizona? X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-5 From: jeff thomas X-ContentStamp: 2:3:815240625 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I just rode Amtrak to Winslow, Arizona and back this past weekend, (great trip). Next to the S.F. depot there, I saw two old passenger cars in PRR paint. One car is an observation/business car. It has the name, "Louis Sockalexis" on it. Is this an actual ex Pennsy passenger car, or has it possibly just been repainted into a PRR scheme by someone over the years? Jeff Thomas DEnton, Tx. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] PRR Signals From: Ryan Pursel Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 16:15:21 -0500 From: "TCJ Riggs" Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Pennsy passenger car in Winslow, Arizona? Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:23:30 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Have you tried Jerry's passenger car search on his website? That has given me a great deal of information as I try to understand passenger operations better. Tom Riggs ----- Original Message ----- From: "jeff thomas" To: Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 3:19 PM Subject: [PRR] (PRR) Pennsy passenger car in Winslow, Arizona? > I just rode Amtrak to Winslow, Arizona and back this past weekend, (great > trip). Next to the S.F. depot there, I saw two old passenger cars in PRR > paint. One car is an observation/business car. It has the name, "Louis > Sockalexis" on it. Is this an actual ex Pennsy passenger car, or has it > possibly just been repainted into a PRR scheme by someone over the years? > Jeff Thomas > DEnton, Tx. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:04:38 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Buckeye pronunciation guides? X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 1/8/2005 8:31:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, RDG2124 writes: One more Rick, Bucyrus. I have heard at least three different prononciations of this town. Now with your help I'll also be able to correctly pronounce the name of this town from whence the railroad cranes came. Thanks, Evan Leisey Our pronunciation: Bucyrus = Bew-sigh'-rus Also, Lee Rainey comments, <> Linguistically, this split is understandable. Northern Ohio tended to be settled by New Englanders, New Yorkers, and Pennsylvanians. Southern Ohio had a strong component of original settlers from Virginia, resulting in a distinctly different linguistic group. For example, northern Ohioans tend to pronounce "greasy" as grees'-ee, whereas southern Ohioans would say gree'-zee. Of course, moving to Louisville helped me to understand that Southern Ohio is only a transition area in spoken dialect. Living in Louisville, I've become familiar with additional linguistic groups, including 1. Louisvillian (quite distinct from the rest of the state of Kentucky. I offer no credible reason for this, except to observe that lots of Louisvillians are of German extraction) 2. Central Kentuckian (including Lexington) 3. Eastern Kentuckian (not necessarily the same as other Appalachian tongues) 4. Nashville Tennessee area 5. Southern Indiana (when I moved here, you could pick this out even over a train radio -- local Southern Railway employees tended to be from rural Southern Indiana, whereas L&N employees were from out in the state of Kentucky). And so far as I can tell, any of these folks will identify accents from even farther south of them as "Dixie". I'll leave you with this random thought: you haven't lived until one of Louisville's Jewish community wishes you "mazel tov" in a southern accent. Happy New Year, You-all Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:04:38 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Buckeye pronunciation guides? In a message dated 1/8/2005 8:31:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, RDG2124 writes: One more Rick, Bucyrus. I have heard at least three different prononciations of this town. Now with your help I'll also be able to correctly pronounce the name of this town from whence the railroad cranes came. Thanks, Evan Leisey Our pronunciation: Bucyrus = Bew-sigh'-rus Also, Lee Rainey comments, <> Linguistically, this split is understandable. Northern Ohio tended to be settled by New Englanders, New Yorkers, and Pennsylvanians. Southern Ohio had a strong component of original settlers from Virginia, resulting in a distinctly different linguistic group. For example, northern Ohioans tend to pronounce "greasy" as grees'-ee, whereas southern Ohioans would say gree'-zee. Of course, moving to Louisville helped me to understand that Southern Ohio is only a transition area in spoken dialect. Living in Louisville, I've become familiar with additional linguistic groups, including 1. Louisvillian (quite distinct from the rest of the state of Kentucky. I offer no credible reason for this, except to observe that lots of Louisvillians are of German extraction) 2. Central Kentuckian (including Lexington) 3. Eastern Kentuckian (not necessarily the same as other Appalachian tongues) 4. Nashville Tennessee area 5. Southern Indiana (when I moved here, you could pick this out even over a train radio -- local Southern Railway employees tended to be from rural Southern Indiana, whereas L&N employees were from out in the state of Kentucky). And so far as I can tell, any of these folks will identify accents from even farther south of them as "Dixie". I'll leave you with this random thought: you haven't lived until one of Louisville's Jewish community wishes you "mazel tov" in a southern accent. Happy New Year, You-all Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Tcy2bD/SOnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "TCJ Riggs" Subject: Re: [PRR] Buckeye pronunciation guides? Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 21:13:11 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Now THAT is an ear. I was raised east of Pittsburgh in the 50s and 60s and immediately recognized "byew sigh russ", but the rest is amazing.... Tom Riggs ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; ; Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Buckeye pronunciation guides? > In a message dated 1/8/2005 8:31:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, RDG2124 writes: > One more Rick, > > Bucyrus. I have heard at least three different prononciations of this > town. Now with your help I'll also be able to correctly pronounce the name of > this town from whence the railroad cranes came. > > Thanks, > > Evan Leisey > Our pronunciation: > > Bucyrus = Bew-sigh'-rus > > Also, Lee Rainey comments, > > < homeland -- do not agree on all of these. But then we tend to see Ohio south of Rt. > 40 as part of Dixie.>> > > Linguistically, this split is understandable. Northern Ohio tended to be > settled by New Englanders, New Yorkers, and Pennsylvanians. Southern Ohio had a > strong component of original settlers from Virginia, resulting in a distinctly > different linguistic group. For example, northern Ohioans tend to pronounce > "greasy" as grees'-ee, whereas southern Ohioans would say gree'-zee. > > Of course, moving to Louisville helped me to understand that Southern Ohio is > only a transition area in spoken dialect. Living in Louisville, I've become > familiar with additional linguistic groups, including > > 1. Louisvillian (quite distinct from the rest of the state of Kentucky. I > offer no credible reason for this, except to observe that lots of Louisvillians > are of German extraction) > 2. Central Kentuckian (including Lexington) > 3. Eastern Kentuckian (not necessarily the same as other Appalachian tongues) > 4. Nashville Tennessee area > 5. Southern Indiana (when I moved here, you could pick this out even over a > train radio -- local Southern Railway employees tended to be from rural > Southern Indiana, whereas L&N employees were from out in the state of Kentucky). > > And so far as I can tell, any of these folks will identify accents from even > farther south of them as "Dixie". > > I'll leave you with this random thought: you haven't lived until one of > Louisville's Jewish community wishes you "mazel tov" in a southern accent. > > Happy New Year, You-all > > Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky > Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society > Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:19:33 -0800 (PST) From: Moose Kunkle Subject: [PRR] Alexandria Branch question, too From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Buckeye pronunciation guides? Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:09:52 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Rick: Very interesting........I can visualize the comedian Steve Landesburg = doing these voices on stage during one of his stand up routines. While = Steve did impersonate celebrities, he liked to do different dialects = that everyday folk would use. My favorite is his impersonation of what = Jewish farmers in Kansas would say if they encountered a = tornado...."Looouuk, a twistah!!" Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana.....where they pronounce some town names in most = peculiar ways. Such as Galveston. This town is located between = Logansport and Kokomo and is on the Pennsy line from Anoka to = Cincinnati. While most people would pronounce this name as "Gal-ve-ston" = as in the Texas city or the song sung by Glenn Campbell, residents will = politely but firmly tell you that their town is pronounced as = "Gal-VES-ton" with a special emphasis on the 2nd syllable. =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RickTipton@aol.com=20 To: RDG2124@aol.com ; = PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com ; = PRR@yahoogroups.com ; = PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 8:04 PM Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Buckeye pronunciation guides? In a message dated 1/8/2005 8:31:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, RDG2124 = writes: One more Rick, Bucyrus. I have heard at least three different prononciations of = this=20 town. Now with your help I'll also be able to correctly pronounce the = name of=20 this town from whence the railroad cranes came. Thanks, Evan Leisey Our pronunciation: Bucyrus =3D Bew-sigh'-rus Also, Lee Rainey comments, <> Linguistically, this split is understandable. Northern Ohio tended to = be=20 settled by New Englanders, New Yorkers, and Pennsylvanians. Southern = Ohio had a=20 strong component of original settlers from Virginia, resulting in a = distinctly=20 different linguistic group. For example, northern Ohioans tend to = pronounce=20 "greasy" as grees'-ee, whereas southern Ohioans would say gree'-zee. Of course, moving to Louisville helped me to understand that Southern = Ohio is=20 only a transition area in spoken dialect. Living in Louisville, I've = become=20 familiar with additional linguistic groups, including 1. Louisvillian (quite distinct from the rest of the state of = Kentucky. I=20 offer no credible reason for this, except to observe that lots of = Louisvillians=20 are of German extraction) 2. Central Kentuckian (including Lexington) 3. Eastern Kentuckian (not necessarily the same as other Appalachian = tongues) 4. Nashville Tennessee area 5. Southern Indiana (when I moved here, you could pick this out even = over a=20 train radio -- local Southern Railway employees tended to be from = rural=20 Southern Indiana, whereas L&N employees were from out in the state of = Kentucky). And so far as I can tell, any of these folks will identify accents = from even=20 farther south of them as "Dixie".=20 I'll leave you with this random thought: you haven't lived until one = of=20 Louisville's Jewish community wishes you "mazel tov" in a southern = accent. Happy New Year, You-all Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor = --------------------~-->=20 What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! = http://us.click.yahoo.com/Tcy2bD/SOnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM = --------------------------------------------------------------------~->=20 =20 Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: = http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: = http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ron & Marilyn" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Signals Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:47:59 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Ryan, try this site. It is very comprehensive and probably has most of the information you seek. http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Signal/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:05:54 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Alexandria Branch question, too X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com The Alexandria Branch left the mainline at MP 317.82. The branch ran through Sowash, Winthrop, Crabtree, New Alexandria and terminated in Dundale. Between Winthrop and Crabtree, there was a branch to Forbes Road. Sorry, can't help with pictures. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:09:52 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Buckeye pronunciation guides? Rick: Very interesting........I can visualize the comedian Steve Landesburg doing these voices on stage during one of his stand up routines. While Steve did impersonate celebrities, he liked to do different dialects that everyday folk would use. My favorite is his impersonation of what Jewish farmers in Kansas would say if they encountered a tornado...."Looouuk, a twistah!!" Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana.....where they pronounce some town names in most peculiar ways. Such as Galveston. This town is located between Logansport and Kokomo and is on the Pennsy line from Anoka to Cincinnati. While most people would pronounce this name as "Gal-ve-ston" as in the Texas city or the song sung by Glenn Campbell, residents will politely but firmly tell you that their town is pronounced as "Gal-VES-ton" with a special emphasis on the 2nd syllable. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/EpW3eD/3MnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] Alexandria Branch question, too Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:39:38 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at paonline.com Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Alix, I took a quick look at some Pittsburgh Division/Region Employee Timetables to see their listing of the extents of the Alexandria Branch. In all from Pgh Div. ETT #15 of 9-24-1950 through Pgh Reg ETT #7 of 4-26-1959 the Branch is listed as extending from Donohoe (on the mainline) 3.7 miles to Jamison No.2 Jct. Beyond that point it was designated as the Alexandria Secondary Track. It extended 5.5 miles from the Jct. through Crabtree & Greenwald Allsworth. The Jamison No.2 Secondary was listed as extending 3.1 miles from the Jct. through Hannastown to Forbes Road. However, between the Pgh Div ETT's #5 of 9-27-1953 and #6 of 4-25-1954 the listing for both these sections disappeared. Don't know if that meant the tracks were out of service, or they just stopped listing them. General Order #715 effective 8-11-59 states that the Alexandria Branch and the Jamison No.2 Secondary Tracks were downgraded to Industrial Tracks, thus ending their official existence as a "Branch" and "Secondary Track". Not the whole story... but a couple pieces. Jack Consoli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Moose Kunkle" To: Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 9:19 PM Subject: [PRR] Alexandria Branch question, too > Ok, this is basically three things in one, so here goes: > > 1st off, I'd like to thank everyone for helping me with the Latrobe-Greensburg question. And thanks in advance to anyone who helps me with this question. > > 2nd off, I'd like to invite all of you that are interested in the Southwestern Pennsylvania section of the Pennsy to join my new Yahoo group dedicated to the area. Here's the link: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/prrlatrobe > > 3rd off, I have another question. In 1960, where EXACTLY did the Alexandria Branch run from and to? I know the area above my house (previously asked) was part of it at the time, but I have so much information that's spinning me in circles. If anyone could get me a complete list of the line in that time period, that would be excellent. Any sites that you know that have pictures, too, is excellent. > > Thanx a lot, > > Alix K. > ack15650@yahoo.com > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:17:07 -0800 From: Ron Dugas Subject: Re: [PRR] Alexandria Branch question, too Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi Moose, All, I realize it's before your era but to expand on Jack C's info: ETT #12 4/24/49 agrees with his ETTs from the 50's. ETT #31 4/28/40 shows the following: Alexandria Branch Jct. - 0.0 miles Donohoe - 1.9 " Sowash - 2.9 " Winthrop - 4.0 " Jamison No. 2 Br. Jct. - 5.6 " Crab Tree - 6.0 " Greenwald - 6.8 " Dundale Branch Jct. - 9.7 " New Alexandria - 9.9 " Andrico - 10.5 " ----------------------------- Jamison No. 2 Br. Jct. - 5.6 " Hannastown - 7.2 " Forbes Road - 8.5 " ----------------------------- Dundale Branch Jct. - 9.7 " Allsworth - 10.9 " Dundale - 11.5 " I've separated the Jamison and Dundale Branches out for clarity. No Secondary Tracks listed in 1940. Respectfully, Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Frank Seymour" Subject: [PRR] RE: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/18/05 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:54:22 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <55455.4360@dsop.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out003.verizon.net from [70.16.85.13] at Tue, 18 Jan 2005 08:54:22 -0600 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Does anyone in PRR-TALK have resources for information on the Cambria & Clearfield Railroad which ran from Cresson, Pa. to Clearfield, Pa. I am especially interested in the line from Cresson to Patton, to include any structures, towers, tanks, switches, etc, along the route. I would like to put together a visual representation of what this line looked like at the turn of the century. Advance Thanks. Frank Seymour. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 1:11 AM To: PRR-Talk Subject: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/18/05 PRR-Talk Digest - Tuesday, January 18, 2005 Re: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Buckeye pronunciation guides? by "Ted Andrews" Re: [PRR] PRR Signals by "Ron & Marilyn" Re: [PRR] Alexandria Branch question, too by Re: [PRR] Alexandria Branch question, too by "jconsoli" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Buckeye pronunciation guides? From: "Ted Andrews" Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:09:52 -0500 Rick: Very interesting........I can visualize the comedian Steve Landesburg doing these voices on stage during one of his stand up routines. While Steve did impersonate celebrities, he liked to do different dialects that everyday folk would use. My favorite is his impersonation of what Jewish farmers in Kansas would say if they encountered a tornado...."Looouuk, a twistah!!" Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana.....where they pronounce some town names in most peculiar ways. Such as Galveston. This town is located between Logansport and Kokomo and is on the Pennsy line from Anoka to Cincinnati. While most people would pronounce this name as "Gal-ve-ston" as in the Texas city or the song sung by Glenn Campbell, residents will politely but firmly tell you that their town is pronounced as "Gal-VES-ton" with a special emphasis on the 2nd syllable. ----- Original Message ----- From: RickTipton@aol.com To: RDG2124@aol.com ; PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com ; PRR@yahoogroups.com ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 8:04 PM Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Buckeye pronunciation guides? In a message dated 1/8/2005 8:31:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, RDG2124 writes: One more Rick, Bucyrus. I have heard at least three different prononciations of this town. Now with your help I'll also be able to correctly pronounce the name of this town from whence the railroad cranes came. Thanks, Evan Leisey Our pronunciation: Bucyrus = Bew-sigh'-rus Also, Lee Rainey comments, <> Linguistically, this split is understandable. Northern Ohio tended to be settled by New Englanders, New Yorkers, and Pennsylvanians. Southern Ohio had a strong component of original settlers from Virginia, resulting in a distinctly different linguistic group. For example, northern Ohioans tend to pronounce "greasy" as grees'-ee, whereas southern Ohioans would say gree'-zee. Of course, moving to Louisville helped me to understand that Southern Ohio is only a transition area in spoken dialect. Living in Louisville, I've become familiar with additional linguistic groups, including 1. Louisvillian (quite distinct from the rest of the state of Kentucky. I offer no credible reason for this, except to observe that lots of Louisvillians are of German extraction) 2. Central Kentuckian (including Lexington) 3. Eastern Kentuckian (not necessarily the same as other Appalachian tongues) 4. Nashville Tennessee area 5. Southern Indiana (when I moved here, you could pick this out even over a train radio -- local Southern Railway employees tended to be from rural Southern Indiana, whereas L&N employees were from out in the state of Kentucky). And so far as I can tell, any of these folks will identify accents from even farther south of them as "Dixie". I'll leave you with this random thought: you haven't lived until one of Louisville's Jewish community wishes you "mazel tov" in a southern accent. Happy New Year, You-all Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Tcy2bD/SOnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Signals From: "Ron & Marilyn" Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:47:59 -0600 Ryan, try this site. It is very comprehensive and probably has most of the information you seek. http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Signal/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Alexandria Branch question, too From: Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:05:54 EST The Alexandria Branch left the mainline at MP 317.82. The branch ran through Sowash, Winthrop, Crabtree, New Alexandria and terminated in Dundale. Between Winthrop and Crabtree, there was a branch to Forbes Road. Sorry, can't help with pictures. Rich Orr ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Alexandria Branch question, too From: "jconsoli" Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:39:38 -0500 Alix, I took a quick look at some Pittsburgh Division/Region Employee Timetables to see their listing of the extents of the Alexandria Branch. In all from Pgh Div. ETT #15 of 9-24-1950 through Pgh Reg ETT #7 of 4-26-1959 the Branch is listed as extending from Donohoe (on the mainline) 3.7 miles to Jamison No.2 Jct. Beyond that point it was designated as the Alexandria Secondary Track. It extended 5.5 miles from the Jct. through Crabtree & Greenwald Allsworth. The Jamison No.2 Secondary was listed as extending 3.1 miles from the Jct. through Hannastown to Forbes Road. However, between the Pgh Div ETT's #5 of 9-27-1953 and #6 of 4-25-1954 the listing for both these sections disappeared. Don't know if that meant the tracks were out of service, or they just stopped listing them. General Order #715 effective 8-11-59 states that the Alexandria Branch and the Jamison No.2 Secondary Tracks were downgraded to Industrial Tracks, thus ending their official existence as a "Branch" and "Secondary Track". Not the whole story... but a couple pieces. Jack Consoli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Moose Kunkle" To: Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 9:19 PM Subject: [PRR] Alexandria Branch question, too > Ok, this is basically three things in one, so here goes: > > 1st off, I'd like to thank everyone for helping me with the Latrobe-Greensburg question. And thanks in advance to anyone who helps me with this question. > > 2nd off, I'd like to invite all of you that are interested in the Southwestern Pennsylvania section of the Pennsy to join my new Yahoo group dedicated to the area. Here's the link: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/prrlatrobe > > 3rd off, I have another question. In 1960, where EXACTLY did the Alexandria Branch run from and to? I know the area above my house (previously asked) was part of it at the time, but I have so much information that's spinning me in circles. If anyone could get me a complete list of the line in that time period, that would be excellent. Any sites that you know that have pictures, too, is excellent. > > Thanx a lot, > > Alix K. > ack15650@yahoo.com > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of PRR-Talk Digest ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 10:14:36 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/18/05 From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Tuesday, January 18, 2005, at 09:54 AM, Frank Seymour wrote: > Does anyone in PRR-TALK have resources for information on the Cambria & > Clearfield Railroad which ran from Cresson, Pa. to Clearfield, Pa. I > am > especially interested in the line from Cresson to Patton, to include > any > structures, towers, tanks, switches, etc, along the route. I would > like > to put together a visual representation of what this line looked like > at > the turn of the century. Advance Thanks. Frank Seymour. There is a 1931 era track chart in the Maps section of Keystone Crossings. Don't have anything earlier. Don't have the link handy, but there is a web site with historic geologic surveys. You can select from several time periods. I seem to recall that one was from about the turn of the century. You can also check out Sanborn maps in some libraries. As for photos, Arcadia Publishing produced a book called "Around Cresson and the Alleghenies". It has a ton of vintage photos. However, the Arcadia web site no longer lists it so it may be out of print. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:01:11 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Alexandria Branch question, too Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:05:57 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Alexandria Branch question, too From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/18/05 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:44:02 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com The link Jerry is referring to is historical.maptech.com=20 They scanned 15-minutes series topographical maps from=20 near the turn of the 20th century. A great resource for=20 locating old branch lines, etc. -John Jerry Britton wrote: > On Tuesday, January 18, 2005, at 09:54 AM, Frank=20 >Seymour wrote: >=20 >> Does anyone in PRR-TALK have resources for information=20 >>on the Cambria & >> Clearfield Railroad which ran from Cresson, Pa. to=20 >>Clearfield, Pa. I=20 >> am >> especially interested in the line from Cresson to=20 >>Patton, to include=20 >> any >> structures, towers, tanks, switches, etc, along the=20 >>route. I would=20 >> like >> to put together a visual representation of what this=20 >>line looked like=20 >> at >> the turn of the century. Advance Thanks. Frank=20 >>Seymour. >=20 > There is a 1931 era track chart in the Maps section of=20 >Keystone Crossings. Don't have anything earlier. >=20 > Don't have the link handy, but there is a web site with=20 >historic geologic surveys. You can select from several=20 >time periods. I seem to recall that one was from about=20 >the turn of the century. >=20 > You can also check out Sanborn maps in some libraries. >=20 > As for photos, Arcadia Publishing produced a book called=20 >"Around Cresson and the Alleghenies". It has a ton of=20 >vintage photos. However, the Arcadia web site no longer=20 >lists it so it may be out of print. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing=20 >list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com >=20 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit=20 >http://lists.dsop.com. >=20 York, PA Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Western Maryland,=20 and Maryland & Pennsylvania. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:47:07 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/18/05 From: "Ken Hough " Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 14:20:16 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Re: Our Clubs Laser-Cut-Helix Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 18:19:44 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/18/05 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 20:49:14 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Pennsy passenger car in Winslow, Arizona? X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-6,8-42 From: jeff thomas X-ContentStamp: 16:8:3490773908 X-MAIL-INFO:3f90f170b0ed208df1318db0b12d2d55b0652d2411f9316574c4a465f4404014658940dda1b4c489 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I am not familiar with the website you are refering to. What is that website address? Thanks Jeff Thomas Denton, Tx On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:23:30 -0500 "TCJ Riggs" writes: > Have you tried Jerry's passenger car search on his website? That has > given > me a great deal of information as I try to understand passenger > operations > better. > > Tom Riggs > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jeff thomas" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 3:19 PM > Subject: [PRR] (PRR) Pennsy passenger car in Winslow, Arizona? > > > > I just rode Amtrak to Winslow, Arizona and back this past weekend, > (great > > trip). Next to the S.F. depot there, I saw two old passenger cars > in PRR > > paint. One car is an observation/business car. It has the name, > "Louis > > Sockalexis" on it. Is this an actual ex Pennsy passenger car, or > has it > > possibly just been repainted into a PRR scheme by someone over the > years? > > Jeff Thomas > > DEnton, Tx. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit > http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] PRR Form 19 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 22:53:17 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Listers, Is there picture somewhere that I can see what a Form 19=20 looked like? I'm asking because I recently acquired a CT22=20 book for SHORE tower covering April through August of=20 1953. each day, the "number" as they call it starts as 19=20 no. 101, and gives a description of the move, then the=20 next subsequent order is 19 no. 102, etc. Out of curiosity=20 I'd be interested in seeing what such a form looks like. As an example, May 1st, 1953. 19 No. 105 To: Conductor &=20 Engineer passenger extra 4906 West Chelten Ave via North=20 Phila. Pass Extra 4906 West has right over opposing trains=20 on N. 1 track Chelten Ave to North Phila. HDK(Tower=20 Operator) 540A JL (time of operators repetition and=20 initials) 541A CMH (time made complete and train=20 dispatchers initials.) Interestingly enough, that order was never annulled later=20 in the day. Best regards, and thanks for any help. -John York, PA Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Western Maryland,=20 and Maryland & Pennsylvania. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 21:28:36 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Pennsy passenger car in Winslow, Arizona? From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Form 19 Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:21:11 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-PMX-Version: 4.7.0.111621, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.2.0, Antispam-Data: 2005.1.19.3 X-PerlMx-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIII, Probability=7%, Report='__CT 0, __CTE 0, __CTYPE_CHARSET_QUOTED 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __HAS_MSMAIL_PRI 0, __HAS_X_MAILER 0, __HAS_X_PRIORITY 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __SANE_MSGID 0' Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com John, There are example form 19's in many of the PRR rule books. For example, there's one on page 73 of the 1925 rule book which may be found on my website: http://prr.railfan.net/documents/RuleBooks/PennsylvaniaRailroadSystem-BookOf Rules-1925.pdf I think there are examples in later rule books also.. Rob -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of John Frantz Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 10:53 PM To: PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] PRR Form 19 Listers, Is there picture somewhere that I can see what a Form 19 looked like? I'm asking because I recently acquired a CT22 book for SHORE tower covering April through August of 1953. each day, the "number" as they call it starts as 19 no. 101, and gives a description of the move, then the next subsequent order is 19 no. 102, etc. Out of curiosity I'd be interested in seeing what such a form looks like. As an example, May 1st, 1953. 19 No. 105 To: Conductor & Engineer passenger extra 4906 West Chelten Ave via North Phila. Pass Extra 4906 West has right over opposing trains on N. 1 track Chelten Ave to North Phila. HDK(Tower Operator) 540A JL (time of operators repetition and initials) 541A CMH (time made complete and train dispatchers initials.) Interestingly enough, that order was never annulled later in the day. Best regards, and thanks for any help. -John York, PA Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Western Maryland, and Maryland & Pennsylvania. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:44:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Form 19 From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Wednesday, January 19, 2005, at 10:21 AM, Rob Schoenberg wrote: > Is there picture somewhere that I can see what a Form 19 > looked like? I'm asking because I recently acquired a CT22 > book for SHORE tower covering April through August of > 1953. each day, the "number" as they call it starts as 19 > no. 101, and gives a description of the move, then the > next subsequent order is 19 no. 102, etc. Out of curiosity > I'd be interested in seeing what such a form looks like. As Rob indicated, there's a sample in the Book of Rules (page 86 in the 1951 edition, which was re-validated in 1954). I also have a few unused pads of PRR Form 19's. Rule #203 states "Train orders must be numbered consecutively each day, beginning at midnight." That accounts for the numbering you are seeing. Rule #220 states "Train orders once in effect continue so until fulfilled, superseded or annulled. Any part of an order specifying a particular movement may be either superseded or annulled. ... When a conductor or engineman or both are relieved before the completion of a trip, all train orders and instructions held must be delivered to the relieving conductor or engineman." Note that timetable scheduled trains do not require Form 19's, but their authority to run expires 12 hours after their scheduled time. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Peters" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Form 19 Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:50:44 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com As the 19 order was fulfilled, it does not need to be annulled. The form 19 was on transparent yellow paper. It also sounds like your example was issued from Zoo or N. Phila, not Shore ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Schoenberg" To: "John Frantz" ; Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 10:21 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Form 19 > John, > > There are example form 19's in many of the PRR rule books. For example, > there's one on page 73 of the 1925 rule book which may be found on my > website: > http://prr.railfan.net/documents/RuleBooks/PennsylvaniaRailroadSystem-BookOf > Rules-1925.pdf > > I think there are examples in later rule books also.. > > Rob > > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of John > Frantz > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 10:53 PM > To: PRR-talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] PRR Form 19 > > > Listers, > > Is there picture somewhere that I can see what a Form 19 > looked like? I'm asking because I recently acquired a CT22 > book for SHORE tower covering April through August of > 1953. each day, the "number" as they call it starts as 19 > no. 101, and gives a description of the move, then the > next subsequent order is 19 no. 102, etc. Out of curiosity > I'd be interested in seeing what such a form looks like. > > As an example, May 1st, 1953. 19 No. 105 To: Conductor & > Engineer passenger extra 4906 West Chelten Ave via North > Phila. Pass Extra 4906 West has right over opposing trains > on N. 1 track Chelten Ave to North Phila. HDK(Tower > Operator) 540A JL (time of operators repetition and > initials) 541A CMH (time made complete and train > dispatchers initials.) > > Interestingly enough, that order was never annulled later > in the day. > > Best regards, and thanks for any help. > -John > > York, PA > Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Western Maryland, > and Maryland & Pennsylvania. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:30:00 -0500 From: Tom Hayden Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Pennsy passenger car in Winslow, Arizona? > > From: "jeff thomas" > > Subject: [PRR] (PRR) Pennsy passenger car in Winslow, Arizona? From: "Don R. Millbranth" Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Pennsy passenger car in Winslow, Arizona? Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:50:14 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Greetings.. For a picture of the car in question check out http://tomfassett.railspot.com/pics/cars/passenger/passenger.html The owner of the web site might possibly have more info. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Hayden" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Pennsy passenger car in Winslow, Arizona? > Jeff, > > On May 6 , 2004, Dr Freed posted this . > > "Listers- Can anyone provide any info on PRR Obs. Louis Sockalexis? I cannot find it listed > anywhere in my library. TIA. > Regards, Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO " > > Maybe search and see what response he got. I recall some extended discussions. > > By the way, Louis Sockalexis was a Native American baseball player who played around the turn > of the century for Notre Dame and Holy Cross and including a few years with the Cleveland pro > team. The Cleveland team was later named the "Indians" supposedly in honor of Louis. > > Tom Hayden > Native Clevelander ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 20:25:59 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Pennsy passenger car in Winslow, Arizona? X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-6,8-65,68-71,74-78 From: jeff thomas X-ContentStamp: 27:13:2284539956 X-MAIL-INFO:581c4daca51555ec21a1fc7d58ccacfc35ec4508 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I found some photos through Jerry's website. Also did a Google search and got the info. about Louis playing ball. I wonder how that car came to be in winslow, and who the owner is? Jeff Thomas Denton, Tx. On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:30:00 -0500 Tom Hayden writes: > Jeff, > > On May 6 , 2004, Dr Freed posted this . > > "Listers- Can anyone provide any info on PRR Obs. Louis Sockalexis? > I > cannot find it listed anywhere in my library. TIA. > Regards, Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg > & the > C&PD in HO " > > Maybe search and see what response he got. I recall some > extended > discussions. > > By the way, Louis Sockalexis was a Native American baseball player > who > played around the turn of the century for Notre Dame and Holy Cross > and > including a few years with the Cleveland pro team. The Cleveland > team was > later named the "Indians" supposedly in honor of Louis. > > Tom Hayden > Native Clevelander > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "jeff thomas" > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 3:19 PM > > > Subject: [PRR] (PRR) Pennsy passenger car in Winslow, Arizona? > > > > > > > > > > I just rode Amtrak to Winslow, Arizona and back this past > weekend, > > > (great > > > > trip). Next to the S.F. depot there, I saw two old passenger > cars > > > in PRR > > > > paint. One car is an observation/business car. It has the > name, > > > "Louis > > > > Sockalexis" on it. Is this an actual ex Pennsy passenger car, > or > > > has it > > > > possibly just been repainted into a PRR scheme by someone over > the > > > years? > > > > Jeff Thomas > > > > DEnton, Tx. > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________ ____ > Scanned by IBM Email Security Management Services powered by > MessageLabs. For more information please visit > http://www.ers.ibm.com > _________________________________________________________________________ ____ > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 12:01:19 -0500 Subject: [PRR] InterMountain/Centralia Passenger Car Update From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Public Service Announcement... On January 11 I passed on the announcement of some forthcoming InterMountain/Centralia PRR varnish runs. At the time the number of road numbers/car names had not been announced by IM. I have confirmed the following: HO Scale: P85b Coach in PENNSYLVANIA scheme, 2nd run -- Spring -- 12 new numbers P85b Coach in KEYSTONE logo scheme, 2nd run -- Spring -- 12 new numbers N Scale: PS 4-4-2 Pre-War Sleeper "IMPERIAL ___" -- Spring -- 4 names PS 10-5 Pre-War Sleeper "CASCADE ___" "Fleet of Modernism" scheme -- Summer -- 4 names PS 18 RMT Pre-War Sleeper "CITY OF ___" "Fleet of Modernism" scheme -- Summer -- 4 names PS 13 DBR Pre-War Sleeper "___ COUNTY" "Fleet of Modernism" scheme -- Summer -- 4 names Also, InterMountain's web page ( http://www.intermountain-railway.com ) now has photos of the initial paint schemes of the new N scale EMD F3 Phase II locomotives. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] InterMountain/Centralia Passenger Car Update Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 14:16:17 -0500 From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Subject: [PRR] InterMountain/Centralia Passenger Car Update Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 14:18:35 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain/Centralia Passenger Car Update From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Thursday, January 20, 2005, at 02:16 PM, Chany, Christopher wrote: > How about P85 Kits!!!!! SoL!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: [PRR] Pullman plans Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 15:43:45 -0500 Message-Id: <20050120204345.JXFU11723.de-fe01.dejazzd.com@de-fe01> Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Can anyone tell me what Pullman plan 4172 looks like? I am searching for the car type such as 12-1 or 8-1-2. The PRR did not own any, they were Pullman owned and were named Oak _____. Thanks. Jeff Smith ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Weldon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pullman plans Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 20:19:10 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Speaking of Pullman plans!!! I have been told PRR had the largest fleet of heavyweight 12-1 Pullman sleepers. There were, I'm told two basic floor plans 2410 and 3410 with various letter suffixes. Were there exterior spotting feature differences??? Where can one find a list of ALL of the Pullman floor plans including the PRR 12-1's. All the best to you and yours Weldon ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 3:43 PM Subject: [PRR] Pullman plans > Can anyone tell me what Pullman plan 4172 looks > like? I am searching for the car type such as 12-1 or > 8-1-2. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! h=Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=LeToDhRF38UTu+fJ9lq/8QT2LHq87obw3/nAYrIx4TUtKRrLFLkSB0apfHgjtNts; h=Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=LeToDhRF38UTu+fJ9lq/8QT2LHq87obw3/nAYrIx4TUtKRrLFLkSB0apfHgjtNts; h=Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=LeToDhRF38UTu+fJ9lq/8QT2LHq87obw3/nAYrIx4TUtKRrLFLkSB0apfHgjtNts; From: "Tom Flynn" Subject: [PRR] PRR locos sold to DT&I Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 20:48:12 -0500 From: PRRTRAINS@aol.com Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 21:03:37 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Trailers X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Please can anyone help, I just received the new mini metals trailers.era I have 4 undecorated I wanted to do them in penny truck colors. Did penny ever have them this style? Thank you BOB ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 21:33:34 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Pullman plans MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Here's some books that may help you. "The Official PULLMAN-STANDARD Library" Vol 4 PRR. "Passenger Car Catalog-Pullman operated equipment 1912-1949" by Kratville "Pullman Company List of Cars"-Wayner Publications "Car Names,Numbers,and Consist"-Wayner Publications Some of these books can be found at train shows. The "Passenger Car Catalog" will cost you some big bucks if you can find one. It's probably the best book for info on Pullman Heavyweights. Hope this helps. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] Pullman plans Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 21:35:32 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000401c4ff57$370d1b60$6401a8c0@BigTop> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Weldon asked: "Where can one find a list of ALL of the Pullman floor plans including the PRR 12-1's?" We can go one better: Tom Madden's Pullman Project database contains information on all named heavyweight Pullman sleepers that did not become Tourist cars and all Tourist cars up to TC 4335. All Pullman-operated lightweight cars that went off Pullman’s rolls before 1964, and all Pullmans sold to Mexican railroads are included. Not yet included are Tourist cars numbered 4336 and higher, one-third of the heavyweight and lightweight parlor cars, and one-third of the late ‘60s lightweight sleepers. His website is at http://home.att.net/~pullmanproject/ . Click on the "Pullman Car Construction Record Database." Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chuck Friedlein" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR locos sold to DT&I Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:35:16 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Tom, The Pennsy sold two L1s Mikes to the DT&I in July 1941. PRR 1642 became DT&I 315 PRR 3642 became DT&I 317. Chuck Friedlein ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Flynn" To: Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 8:48 PM Subject: [PRR] PRR locos sold to DT&I > This is my first post. I hope I'm doing it right. > > Pennsy sold a number of steam locomotives to the DT&I. Is info available as to what these were? I'd like to know: classes, PRR road nbrs., DT&I road nbrs. and dates. > > Thanks, > > > Tom Flynn > tmflynn12@earthlink.net > http://whiteoakshelties.homestead.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:57:26 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR locos sold to DT&I MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com More than a dozen H Class 2-8-0's were sent to the DT&I as well. PRR 8684 to DT&I 412 8802 to 415 9840 to 416 8664 to 413 8666 to 417 9906 to 410 9909 to 406 9918 to 414 9403 to 404 9395 to 400 8648 to 405 8619 to 408 8615 to 402 8298 to 401 8273 to 409 4272 to 403 8049 to 411 7535 to 407 Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:09:21 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Pullman plans From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Welden asks: > Speaking of Pullman plans!!! > I have been told PRR had the largest fleet of heavyweight 12-1 Pullman > sleepers. > > There were, I'm told two basic floor plans 2410 and 3410 with various > letter suffixes. Were there exterior spotting feature differences??? Yes, although they are not completely consistent. The plan 2410 cars preceeded the plan 3410 cars. As such the early 2410 cars were "gothic" in style, with paired aisle windows (like a section), and round ends. Somewhere around the 2410E subclass, the paired aisle windows were changed to single aisle windows and within a few months, the ends changed to "pedimented". Many early 2410 cars were rebuilt and given new 2410 subclasses such as the 2410I. These rebuilt cars often maintained the paired aisle windows if they were built with them. Additionally, the rivet patterns on gothic and more modern cars differed. When the 3410 came on the scene, they were 1' longer, with the added length in the lavatories. It wasn't until the relatively rare 3410B (supposed close to the Riv 12-1) that small lavatory windows were introduced. Lavatory windows did differ in position between 2410 and 3410 cars, and even between subclasses in each plan. It sould be noted that Tom Madden, noted Pullmanologist, regards the Rivarossi 12-1 as closer to a plan 2410F, which was the mainstay of the Toourist Car and then WWII Troop Sleeper fleets. As Ben indicated, the easiest way to research PRR 12-1 sleepers is to use Tom Madden's Excel database, which can be sorted in many interesting ways... Regards Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! h=Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=cURlLr/P3RpvmQVxNbFaX7FQSYWd3TEsZb08H9KCUepxYjMUm4ChPZUSzZvIhCnD; h=Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=cURlLr/P3RpvmQVxNbFaX7FQSYWd3TEsZb08H9KCUepxYjMUm4ChPZUSzZvIhCnD; h=Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=cURlLr/P3RpvmQVxNbFaX7FQSYWd3TEsZb08H9KCUepxYjMUm4ChPZUSzZvIhCnD; Message-ID: <003c01c4ff6e$f5fd2530$4687aec7@hoxiecomp> Reply-To: "STEPHEN HOXIE" From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" To: References: <20050120204345.JXFU11723.de-fe01.dejazzd.com@de-fe01> <000401c4ff57$370d1b60$6401a8c0@BigTop> Subject: Re: [PRR] Pullman plans Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:09:02 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 65fbc22f705d6e9971639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940b854ecf8f2ab1aaaf154a03d7e3fa66c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 199.174.135.70 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi "stacktalk" and Weldon--This should help. Tom Madden's Pullman Project, which Ben cited, is fabulous, but I have not been able to use it to determine arrangement; i. e., 12-1. For that you need to do is join the e-mail list, Yahoo Groups Passenger Car List, at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PassengerCarList/ After joining, access the Files section and scroll down until you see "Sleeping Car Plan/Diagram/Capacity Listing. This is a listing that tells which floor plan arrangement goes with which Plan Number. Very useful. Using those two sources, here is what I found out about the Plan 4172, Oak _____ cars: they were converted from Plan 3410 12 section - 1 drawing room cars in the 1950 timeframe. They became 12 roomette - 1 single bedroom - 4 double bedroom. I don't know if the conversion resulted in any exterior appearance changes from the original. For the SPF, an absolutely essential resource is Gary Spear's http://prr.railfan.net/passenger/GSPEAR/ This is a comprehensive database of the PRR passenger fleet. Thank you, Gary! Weldon, you were told correctly about the PRR 12-1's. There are some external detail differences between the subclasses. For instance, in HO the Rivarossi 12-1 is closest (but not nearly exact!) to a Plan 3410B because of the window arrangement. For extensive discussion on the Plan differences, go to the archives of the aforementioned Passenger Car List. A warning: the Yahoo Groups search function is awful, but it is what we have. For more much more info on the Pullman 12-1, see The Keystone Modeler, No 17, December 2004, for Bruce Smith's excellent article and review of the state-of-the-art models from Branchline and Walthers. (Yes; when it rains, it pours!) Have fun! Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: WARDJEFFE@cs.com Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 23:37:27 EST Subject: [PRR] colour position light signals? in columbus area? X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com during my time driving crew vans, i happened to ride men who worked the old panhandle line from pittsburgh to columbus. one of them mentioned position light signals in the columbus area which had green lenses for the clear signal. did these exist, perhaps as an experiment, under pennsy or penn central? he swore these were different from the b&o style signals which i assume were in use west of newark(?) on the joint b&o prr line. or was he perhaps referring to the n&w signals which were originally position lights? from the way he talked, i assume these were signals he'd have passed on his run....... jeffery s ward sr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: WARDJEFFE@cs.com Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 01:29:34 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: alexandria branch X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com having grown up in the area, and hiked the main line, perhaps i can shed a little more light on these questions..... it was stated by one that the branch left the main at mp 317.8......this would be at donohoe station. there is a grade there where tracks descended to the branch both east and west of the station area, on the north side of the mainline....another source lists donohoe as mp 1.9 on the branch. the tunnel line asked about ducked under the main at donohoe, then through the tunnel and returned to the main just west of beatty, at about mp 316......so the tunnel would have been part of the branch. there also appears to be a roadbed parallel to the main, at a slightly lower elevation, along the south side as far as george's station, about mp318.5.......slightly further west, on thecurve about mp319, there is a cut in the hill which leaves the main on the north side and rounds a relatively sharp curve before rejoining the main about 1/4 mile further west.......i believe that the first 1.9 miles of the alexanria branch, plus the roadbed to george's station, and the cut at mp319 are all part of the original mainline and that it was straightened at a later date.....this is common in the area. rt 993 from ardara to cavittsville is part of the old mainline, as was the 0 secondary through irwin, and the abandoned radebaugh tunnel. old photos also show a tunnel under downtown greensburg.......and what appears to be part of the tunnel wall is was still visible in the cut just east of greensburg station..... i could go on, but you get the point..... jeffery s ward sr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: zootowerprr@webtv.net, SUVCWORR@aol.com, PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com, PRR-Talk@dsop.com, PRR@yahoogroups.com From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Trailers Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 06:37:57 -0500 To: PRRTRAINS@aol.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Jan 20, 2005, at 9:03 PM, PRRTRAINS@aol.com wrote: > Please can anyone help, I just received the new mini metals > trailers.era I > have 4 undecorated I wanted to do them in penny truck colors. Did > penny ever > have them this style? They're pretty close for the Pennsy's first dual-axle trailers, delivered in March 1955. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jerry @ Pennsy Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 06:37:57 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] PRR Trailers On Jan 20, 2005, at 9:03 PM, PRRTRAINS@aol.com wrote: > Please can anyone help, I just received the new mini metals > trailers.era I > have 4 undecorated I wanted to do them in penny truck colors. Did > penny ever > have them this style? They're pretty close for the Pennsy's first dual-axle trailers, delivered in March 1955. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Rcy2bD/UOnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Signs and Billboards Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:20:37 +0000 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I was just made aware of these two websites that have signs and billboards from many eras. It shouldn't be too difficult to transfer some of the pictures to a photo program and reproduce them for modeling purposes. It is to bad many of the signs are taken at an angle but they are both excellent resources in my opinion. Norm Bell www.signmuseum.org www.billboardsofthepast.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "DBMittner" Subject: [PRR] K Tower photos Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 09:39:55 -0700 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com List, For my next Pennsy painting project, I want to paint a scene = depicting the runaway "Federal" led by GG1 #4876 that crashed into Union = Station at Washington, DC in 1953. Great article in the most recent = "Keystone" pertaining to the wreck itself but what I need are photos of = K Tower and the area around it. This is the location I would like to = place the ill-fated train. So far, I haven't been very successful on = the internet. A couple grainy, blurred photos is all I can find. = Anyone have access to nice photos or know what publications I can find = them in? The closer to that time period the better. The southside of = the structure is probably the view I will end up using since I'll want = an approaching view of the engine. Any help would be greatly = appreciated. Thanks, Dave David B. Mittner PRRT&HS member #6699 Dave's Gallery of Railroad Art. http://www.members.cox.net/dmittner1/davesart.html =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 12:07:10 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Need Photo of PRR F3 #9521 (To Verify Phase) From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com All... I need a reference to a published photo of PRR F3 #9521. I don't have it with me, but I'm told the Withers volume on EMD cab units does not have a photo of 9521. I also lent my Keystone out, so I can't check that! Pages on my web site show 9521 as an F3 Phase III (originally per Greg Martin), with the louvers on the second panel between the portholes. I am trying to confirm this -- vs. it being a Phase II Late with the chicken wire between the portholes. Anyone? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 12:28:49 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] K Tower photos MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com David, As the write up in the Keystone states, the the 4876 was leaning and riding on one side only. Are you going to depict this in the painting? Sparks flying too? A possible source for a photo of "K" Tower could be in the PRR Electric Years(?) series of books. As I am not a traction fan (lines west of Pgh), I have none of these books. Maybe someone here can do some checking.......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Railfan Photography - a helpful resource Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 12:50:12 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Listers, Posts and articles about problems encountered by railfans photographing railroads have lately been appearing in the press and on most of the e-mail lists. There was one on the Operations/Industries Sig website with some useful/helpful information and a really useful website with a guide to photographer's rights: http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm A copy of the complete post follows. One possible issue is whether passenger station platforms are public places or not. Who owns it? Railroad, municipality, etc. I always check first, and virtually always get the "ok" to take pictures. Bill Bigler ----------------------------------------- As long as you are in a public place, you are generally free to photograph whatever you wish, including things that are not of a public nature. However, you can't invade another, non-public area to achieve your goals. An example is trespassing onto railroad property to take a picture of your family in front of a locomotive - it is technically a violation of the railroad's right to control its property. Another example would be using extreme long lenses to photograph secret things . . . like UFO's and the like. As for the railroads, they are seeing the value of having railfans out there, but local police, especially in large, scary cities, get kinda freaky. One of the comments in this story is that terrorists wouldn't come do these things in broad daylight. Wrong. A terrorist with a 'Disneyland' t-shirt and a camera looks just like a railfan with a 'Route of the Phoebe Snow' t-shirt and a camera. The police have a tough job here, so the true railfan will take a very open approach to these guys, who, after all, carry guns and can ruin your day of railfanning in a very permanent way. And, after its all said and done, it will be his word against your now silenced word that you were not in fact chanting quietly under your breath, "Death to America! Praise (Insert God or Prophet of your choice here)!" I suggest you be helpful to these guys, show them your I.D. willingly, and suggest to them that the railfans actually help make their jobs easier, as you know what to look for, and are certainly going to call in the weirdos. It if is a "rent-a-cop", who are often "wannabees" to the regular police force, suggest that you would be glad for them to call in the railroad police or the regular police for clarification. Also, check this link for some legal authority for your hobby: http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm Finally, the ACLU (not my best friend, but handy to know when you get arrested!) has resources to consider when you wish to enjoy your photography hobby. Tom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Tower photos Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 14:50:55 -0500 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:06:44 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Tower photos From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Friday, January 21, 2005, at 02:50 PM, Chany, Christopher wrote: > Speaking of towers anyone have inside photos of Alto? Digital Image Works has a video called "Horseshoe Curve Helpers" (http://www.diwks.com/OBP-2.html) that has a segment of video from inside ALTO. Here are two links to interior shots at the Library of Congress: http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/pa/pa2600/pa2671/photos/142142pr.jpg http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/pa/pa2600/pa2671/photos/142143pr.jpg And I think one of the 1950's issues of Trains magazine had interior shots. I know the 1957 "Mountain Railroad" has interior shots of AR. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:01:09 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] K Tower photos MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hello Dave, There's a photo of "K" Tower in "Trackside of the PRR North of Washington DC" (Morning Sun Books) on page 8. Not the best photo but it may help. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "E. Mike" Subject: RE: [PRR] Tower photos including K Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 23:54:50 +0000 From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] Need Photo of PRR F3 #9521 (To Verify Phase) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 20:32:01 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at paonline.com Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Jerry, See Keystone Autumn 2004, page 18 at the bottom. 9521A was the last of the F3 Phase IIb units. Above it is a shot of 9522A, the first phase III. I tried to include photos of the units on either side of each phase/model change to eliminate any further confusion on these points. Jack Consoli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Cc: "Jack Consoli" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 12:07 PM Subject: [PRR] Need Photo of PRR F3 #9521 (To Verify Phase) > All... > > I need a reference to a published photo of PRR F3 #9521. > > I don't have it with me, but I'm told the Withers volume on EMD cab > units does not have a photo of 9521. I also lent my Keystone out, so I > can't check that! > > Pages on my web site show 9521 as an F3 Phase III (originally per Greg > Martin), with the louvers on the second panel between the portholes. I > am trying to confirm this -- vs. it being a Phase II Late with the > chicken wire between the portholes. > > Anyone? > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: "PRR-Talk LIST" From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] Need Photo of PRR F3 #9521 (To Verify Phase) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 21:13:02 -0500 To: "jconsoli" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Jan 21, 2005, at 8:32 PM, jconsoli wrote: > See Keystone Autumn 2004, page 18 at the bottom. 9521A was the last of > the > F3 Phase IIb units. Above it is a shot of 9522A, the first phase III. I > tried to include photos of the units on either side of each phase/model > change to eliminate any further confusion on these points. Thanks, Jack. Yeah, I got my Keystone back and found that earlier this evening. Interesting path of data... About three years ago I set up a page of "F Unit Spotting Features" on my Keystone Crossings web site. The actual spotting features listed are fine... at least through all of the F3 phases. But Greg Martin provided me with the road numbers for each phase, and some of them -- I discovered today -- weren't right. He had 9520 and 9521 as Phase III's. InterMountain, in announcing road numbers for their forthcoming N scale F3 Phase II's, picked 9521 as one of their four. The flag was raised! Well, in defense of Greg -- who was a great help on that page -- I have found his error IN A PUBLISHED BOOK!!! Turns out that "Pennsylvania Railroad Diesel Locomotive Pictorial, Volume Six, EMD and Alco Freight Cab Units", by Paul Withers, Withers Publishing, shows incorrect info! The book lacks unit photos, but in the caption for #9523 on page 360 it reads "Units 9520-A through 9528-A, 9540A, and 9541A featured screening over the upper air intakes only, with louvered vents replacing the screening between the portholes." Sorry, Paul, not so! The proof is in the photo... thanks, Jack, once again your F unit article in The Keystone comes to the rescue! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] BLI NW2 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 20:44:35 -0600 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Before I go too far with complaints, I need some info. My BLI NW2 has = white handrails. I looked at the BLI website and sure enough the small = paint diagram (not photo) appears to show the same. Is this an as-delivered paint scheme (keeping in mind these were WWII = era units)? Or a figment of someone's imagination, or an oversight? If = they started out with white handrail paint, at what paint diagram date = did they change to safety yellow? BTW, sound at first hearing, is good,especially when volume is scaled = back about 2/3. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 21:58:30 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI NW2 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Bob I think as originally delivered the handrail were dgle. The idea of painting handrails either white or yellow for safety puposes did not come about until later. -Ken McCorry > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 22:16:13 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Tower photos X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com List, That photo from the Library of Congress is not that old. Take a look at the CTC machine and you will notice that "ANTIS" is on the machine. I think the opr is Harold Fulton, and he worked at ALTO after CR closed "MG". I don't have a time line when "ANTIS" was remoted from "ALTO" The "SLOPE" machine appears to have #1 track blacked out compared to the others that are visable. No.2 track was removed starting in 1981. Pat McKinney ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Douglas Nelson" Subject: RE: [PRR] Pullman plans Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 01:04:53 -0800 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20050120204345.JXFU11723.de-fe01.dejazzd.com@de-fe01> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 6b73c4bfaee5d95e1a2467d70233b1a70a9da525759e265434c536caf237dabc932fc6980e2eea5b387f7b89c61deb1d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 165.121.199.197 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Jeff: Pullman plan 4172 was a 12-1-4, that's 12 roomettes - 1 single bedroom - 4 double bedrooms. There were 22 cars of this plan rebuilt and they were among the very last heavyweight rebuilds by Pullman in 1949-50. All were named in the Oak series. Doug Nelson -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of stacktalk@dejazzd.com Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 12:44 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Pullman plans Can anyone tell me what Pullman plan 4172 looks like? I am searching for the car type such as 12-1 or 8-1-2. The PRR did not own any, they were Pullman owned and were named Oak _____. Thanks. Jeff Smith ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 13:19:17 -0600 (CST) Subject: [PRR] Interior colors on PRR Jordan spreaders From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi Folks, I'm trying to figure out what the interior color of PRR's Jorndan SPreaders was. I figure that it might be grey, but I would love some real information. Also, were the control levers painted any particular colors? I'm gearing up to paint my overland spreader and as it has an interior, I'd like to get it right . It will get parked on "mud track" in Columbia along with a 3 car unit of XLs and an X23 tool car (If I can get the wicked warp out), as well as the FXL-FM crawler crane combo to represent a "ditching gang" working in the area. Regards Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <47C2207C-6CAC-11D9-8944-000A95C04372@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] "The Right Paint" Web Page Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 14:31:57 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I've added a new page to Keystone Crossings -- one that is long overdue -- "The Right Paint". This page lists Pennsy paint colors, for locos, rolling stock, structures, etc. And next to them the drift card numbers and recommendations on model paints that match. I welcome "those in the know" to share their paint formulas. I've started the page with several from Greg Martin, Bruce Smith, and Paul Backenstose. Here's the address... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/model/paint.ws4d Thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 11:34:21 -0800 (PST) From: Angela Sutton Subject: Re: [PRR] colour position light signals? in columbus area? Message-Id: <2E7E34C9-6CB3-11D9-8944-000A95C04372@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Sometimes I Hate When I Think! Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:21:21 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com If you look at the design of Level II, there's a narrow shelf just below where the Yardmaster sits. This was to be a fiddle yard where the Yardmaster would prep cars for the Harrisburg local. Today I was taking a quick look at how I might set it up. For background, it's also important to note that I had not planned, due to space reasons, to have the Harrisburg engine terminal, which dealt almost exclusively with passenger power. A revelation occurred to me. I could pre-stage the local train and have it come in from staging via Enola and into Harrisburg. The area where the fiddle yard was to go could now be an abridged locomotive facility. I think I could even give it the look and feel of the diesel end of the Harrisburg facility. A view block going through the engine house itself would bisect (hide) the curve. The other side of the view block would skip the steam facility and would depict the electric loco service area. Hmmm, sometimes I hate when I think! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <9D18A5F2-6CB3-11D9-8944-000A95C04372@dsop.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Listmaster Subject: [PRR] TANGENT - Miss-post Apology Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:24:27 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Listers: My apologies, I appear to be having a local mail issue. I sent a message -- "Sometimes I Hate When I Think" -- which should have gone to my PRR-ER mailing list. Instead it went to PRR-talk. I resent it to PRR-ER. And again it went to PRR-talk. Oy, sorry, you'll have no idea what I am talking about in the post! --Jerry ---------------------------------------- Listmaster listmaster@dsop.com Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Hough " Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 18:09:03 -0600 Subject: [PRR] MOVIES of http://www.railimages.com/gallery/kenhoughOur From: "Keith Burkey" Subject: RE: [PRR] "The Right Paint" Web Page / Phone booths Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 20:14:46 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <47C2207C-6CAC-11D9-8944-000A95C04372@pennsyrr.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcUAuazrZ+X+dqWWSvGmPecJSRIY1wALlYsg Message-Id: <20050123011649.XZRY14945.mta9.adelphia.net@burkeyhome000> Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Jerry, Just in time! Friends of mine has acquired the Pennsylvaina Railroad phone booth from Nanty Glo, PA. It conforms to standard plan 59443 for a 4'x4' phone booth. They're curious the appropriate colors to paint it after restoration. Since the plans call for dark and light "PRR Standard", would this be the same as "Dark Building Paint Priming, Intermediate and Finishing Coats" and "Light Building Paint Priming, Intermediate and Finishing Coats"? How does one acquire the appropriate drift cards? Thanks, Keith Keith Burkey PRRT&HS 7559 www.bbandbrr.com > > This page lists Pennsy paint colors, for locos, rolling stock, > structures, etc. And next to them the drift card numbers and > recommendations on model paints that match. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 17:18:35 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] Decaling the Walthers HO 10-5 From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Decaling the Walthers HO 10-5 Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 22:55:06 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Doug, After taking apart a Walthers 52-seat coach for a=20 project i'm working on for Bruce, I wouldn't recommend=20 removing the windows. What I would do is actually rather elementary. Take a=20 piece of tracing paper, or even regular paper and using=20 the side of a regular pencil make a rubbing of the car=20 side. I'd then scan it if you have the resources and trace=20 the windows. Print these and then use them as a pattern=20 for cutting pieces of masking tape to go over the windows=20 temporarily. I'd suggest using regular masking tape with=20 full stickiness, not drafting tape. This will ensure a=20 good seal with no leakage. I've used techniques similar to=20 this on weathering freight cars. Best of luck, John Doug Kisala wrote: > Hello list, >=20 > After a bit of head scratching, I took the plunge and > decaled my Walthers HO 10-5 lightweight sleeper for > Cascade Echo. >=20 > Since the car is assembled with a flat finish, my > inital thought was to remove the windows and spray the > entire model with a clear gloss for decaling. >=20 > I couldn't figure out how to get the windows out (any > ideas?), so I masked below the windows and added a > clear gloss. I used the Walthers decals provided and > followed a photo from the second PRR Color Guide to >Freight and Passenger Equipment (Morning Sun). >=20 > I hit the model with a clear flat coat after masking > off the windows and uppoer carbody. >=20 > There is a slight demarcation line visible if you look > closely enough below the paired stripes along the > carbody. >=20 > Along the way, I added Kadee 58s, painted the wheel > faces flat black, and oiled the journal bearings. >=20 > There was enough to do on this ready to run car to > make it fun for this confirmed kit builder. >=20 > I have another PRR 10-5 in the Fleet of Modernism > scheme and a 4-4-2 sleeper to do as well. >=20 > Anyone have better ways of doing this? Inquiring > minds want to know. >=20 > Doug >=20 >=20 > =09 > __________________________________=20 > Do you Yahoo!?=20 > Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit=20 >http://lists.dsop.com. >=20 York, PA Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Western Maryland,=20 and Maryland & Pennsylvania. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 00:08:05 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI NW2 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Bob Zoeller writes: If they started out with white handrail paint, at what paint diagram date did they change to safety yellow? Bob, I know you know better than this... They were not delivered with white or yellow handrails, they were black. Yellow was the color the PRR painted them and white was the color the PC repainted them... Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 00:19:00 -0500 From: Rail Classics Subject: [PRR] Rail Classics From: "George Pandelios" Subject: [PRR] Cabin car for H-3 Consolidation Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 08:03:44 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <87455.82969@dsop.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out007.verizon.net from [141.151.221.192] at Sun, 23 Jan 2005 07:03:46 -0600 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com MTH has brought out a Pennsy H-3 consolidation in O gauge. What would be the proper cabin car for use with this engine? There is photo at the top of page 20 of The Pennsy in the Steel City that shows a series of Nb class bobber cabeese sitting on a storage track. The picture bears no date but may be from the 1920s. The authors (great book by the way) are Ken Kobus and Jack Consoli. I think they sometimes frequent this mailing list. Maybe they can shed some light on this? Thanks, George ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 11:08:44 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "sjlash" Subject: [PRR] N8 cabin build dates X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi all, I was wondering if anyone knows where to find the built dates of= these cabin cars, and the location of construction. Thanks Jim ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin car for H-3 Consolidation Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 11:59:34 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at paonline.com Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com George, Those two photos were not dated, but we know that they were earlier than the 1906 photo below. If anyone knows when Nb cabins or Pa or Pc class coaches were built, maybe we can bracket the date, anyway. Jack Consoli ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Pandelios" To: Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 8:03 AM Subject: [PRR] Cabin car for H-3 Consolidation > MTH has brought out a Pennsy H-3 consolidation in O gauge. What would be > the proper cabin car for use with this engine? > > There is photo at the top of page 20 of The Pennsy in the Steel City that > shows a series of Nb class bobber cabeese sitting on a storage track. The > picture bears no date but may be from the 1920s. The authors (great book by > the way) are Ken Kobus and Jack Consoli. I think they sometimes frequent > this mailing list. Maybe they can shed some light on this? > > Thanks, > > George > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:34:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin car for H-3 Consolidation MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Jack, George, A good article on early PRR Cabins is in the Vol 6, No.4 (Dec 1973) issue of the Keystone. Nb cabins were built about 1890 but probably a bit earlier, according to the text. I found nothing yet on early P passenger Car build dates except for Pk's which were built in 1905 or so. George, For an H3 loco, which was introduced about 1888 would seem to have operated with pretty much all the Bobber Cabins (Na, Nb Nc of the same era and later NE and NEa of 1902 and Nd's in 1903) You have little choices in a model of this period. The only one I can think of is the Gloor Craft Nd kit. The NDa non bobber is a stretch for your use due to the later conversion date of 1916. You would need to scratch build any of the others. Should be quite easy however as these are very basic designs.......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Cabin car for H-3 Consolidation Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 14:51:34 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <28801-41F3E03E-762@storefull-3113.bay.webtv.net> X-PMX-Version: 4.7.0.111621, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.2.0, Antispam-Data: 2005.1.23.4 X-PerlMx-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIII, Probability=7%, Report='__CT 0, __CTE 0, __CTYPE_CHARSET_QUOTED 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __HAS_MSMAIL_PRI 0, __HAS_X_MAILER 0, __HAS_X_PRIORITY 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __PORN_PHRASE_15_0 0, __SANE_MSGID 0' Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com PRR circular 146 "Classification of Cars" lists the introduction years for the standard freight and passenger classes. I have a few versions on my web site at http://prr.railfan.net/documents The first version I have online is from 1916.. The cabin classes in existance in 1916 were: Nc 1893 Nd 1903 N4 1915 N5 1914 N6a 1914 N6b 1914 Early passsenger classes are also listed starting with the Pd (1878.) Rob PS: If anyone has a copy of an earlier Circular 146 version (-, A, B, or C) I'd really love to get a copy or scan to add to my website! -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Gary Mittner Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 12:35 PM To: jconsoli Cc: gpandelios@verizon.net; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin car for H-3 Consolidation Jack, George, A good article on early PRR Cabins is in the Vol 6, No.4 (Dec 1973) issue of the Keystone. Nb cabins were built about 1890 but probably a bit earlier, according to the text. I found nothing yet on early P passenger Car build dates except for Pk's which were built in 1905 or so. George, For an H3 loco, which was introduced about 1888 would seem to have operated with pretty much all the Bobber Cabins (Na, Nb Nc of the same era and later NE and NEa of 1902 and Nd's in 1903) You have little choices in a model of this period. The only one I can think of is the Gloor Craft Nd kit. The NDa non bobber is a stretch for your use due to the later conversion date of 1916. You would need to scratch build any of the others. Should be quite easy however as these are very basic designs.......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 14:00:22 -0500 Subject: RE: [PRR] Cabin car for H-3 Consolidation MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Jack, I forgot that Pennsy Power 3 lists early passenger cars. The Pa Pb PF and PK among earlier and later cars are listed. The Pa was first built in 1862, similar the Lincoln funeral car except for the normal 4 wheel trucks.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin car for H-3 Consolidation Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 17:34:39 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com List, In N scale I run a Quality Craft (Gloor Craft) N6b behind my H3's and no one has questioned the choice yet <> There were still 500 H3's in 1920 and the N6b was introduced in 1914. Gregg Mahlkov http://www.railimages.com/gallery/greggmahlkov/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 18:22:01 EST Subject: [PRR] C&N Division X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 1/23/2005 1:14:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: Interestingly enough, the C&N division (joint B&O / PRR Newark-Columbus line) used PRR signals, cab signals, and signal rules, as well as several PRR style Block and Interlocking stations. PRR had by far a greater traffic volume, especially passenger, over this division, which probably accounts for their rules predominating. Further west, Ohio Central still has some PRR position light signals (mostly permanently dark, I'm afraid) on the old Bradford line. There were also a couple of oddballs out around the north end of Buckeye Yard west of town IIRC, but I haven't been out there in a while so I couldn't say much about their operation. Hope this helps, Ang The C&N's PRR signals made a nice counterpoint to the B&O paint on so many of the structures... at least that's what I remember from the 70's. Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 18:22:46 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/23/05 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 1/23/2005 1:14:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: Subject: TANGENT - Miss-post Apology From: "Listmaster" Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:24:27 -0500 Listers: My apologies, I appear to be having a local mail issue. I sent a message -- "Sometimes I Hate When I Think" -- which should have gone to my PRR-ER mailing list. Instead it went to PRR-talk. I resent it to PRR-ER. And again it went to PRR-talk. Oy, sorry, you'll have no idea what I am talking about in the post! --Jerry ---------------------------------------- Listmaster listmaster@dsop.com Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc Better than you think. This is what happens to you when you're building a layout to represent a prototype... Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky Building a new PRR Buckeye Division in HO from Columbus to Xenia 1966-1968 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 18:22:01 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] C&N Division In a message dated 1/23/2005 1:14:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: Interestingly enough, the C&N division (joint B&O / PRR Newark-Columbus line) used PRR signals, cab signals, and signal rules, as well as several PRR style Block and Interlocking stations. PRR had by far a greater traffic volume, especially passenger, over this division, which probably accounts for their rules predominating. Further west, Ohio Central still has some PRR position light signals (mostly permanently dark, I'm afraid) on the old Bradford line. There were also a couple of oddballs out around the north end of Buckeye Yard west of town IIRC, but I haven't been out there in a while so I couldn't say much about their operation. Hope this helps, Ang The C&N's PRR signals made a nice counterpoint to the B&O paint on so many of the structures... at least that's what I remember from the 70's. Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Tcy2bD/SOnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Official Guides (of the Railways) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 16:56:12 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com The thread about tickets on PRR-FAX greatly interested me, and proved very time consuming! You see, I have reprints of Official Guides for June 1916, Jan, 1930, and June 1941. These reprints were sold back in 1978, I remember seeing an ad for them in "Trains and Travel Magazine." There was also a reprint for 1898 which I didn't get for some reason, wish I had! They chose these dates as they represented peak years for railroad passenger travel. I haven't seen them (or any guides) offered for sale since. The reason for this post is provide some information about the Official Guides - a lot of folks on the lists are too young to remember them, and very few people have a copy (or reprint) of old ones. So, some specifics: The publication was called: "The Official Guide of the Railways and Steam Navigation Lines of the United States, Porto Rico, Canada, Mexico, and Cuba. Also Time Tables of Railroads in Central America." (Note Porto Rico is their spelling). The book was 7" x 10" and quite thick. The Jan. 1930 edition, which I'm referring to, is a full 3" thick, and 1760 pages. It came out once/month and was distributed to all passenger stations, agents, etc. Since a new one came out each month, if you were on good terms with an agent, you could pick up old ones for free when the new one arrived. It was published by the National Railway Publication Co, New York. In 1930 an annual subscription was $18.00; $2.00/single copy. There was a quarterly supplement which contained: Inter-Line Settlements-Passenger Accounts; Joint Passenger Tariffs; Railroad Commissions; General Baggage Agents; Railroad Associations-Traffic Associations, etc; and Old and New Names of Roads (complete historical list in Jan. edition, last 10 yrs in the other three. Leafing through it, from the front, are schedules for various airlines (most of which I never heard of, Air Mail Service, followed by lists of Eastbound Trans-Atlantic Passenger Sailings, Trans-Atlantic Steamship Lines, and fares for various classes. Also Trans-Pacific Passenger Conference Sailings. These are followed by railroad passenger timetables, starting with Central & South America, then the US beginning with the east and working west. And these were complete timetables, not only for first class trains but every branch line on the railroad. Needless to say, PRR takes up a lot of room, pages 296-391, nearly 100 pages. For the trains of a particular line it listed accommodations on the various trains, such as sleeping, parlor, dining, coach service and whether the train carried checked baggage and if so between which stations. Note this is not consist information, but just accommodations on the various trains. To use the guide, you usually started by looking up a station or town and going from there. You can see why that thread proved very time consuming - I got out my old guide reprints and started going through them. And of course, one thing led to another, etc. For example, what were the relative advantages of the Milwaukee Road, Great Northern, and Northern Pacific for a trip from Chicago to the Seattle area? Back in the '50's nearly all railfans had a few guides, and railroad clubs used to sponsor contests for their members that involved planning routes. They'd include several towns you had to spend a night in across the US, and you had to plan a route. Objective might be to plan a route with minimum mileage, or fewest railroads, or minimum time, or fewest train changes, etc. Or perhaps they'd require you to plan a route that avoided major terminals like Chicago, St. Louis, etc. Great fun in a day without computers and calculators! Not sure what happened to all those Official Guides and the reprints that came out in '78. Must still be a lot of them around. Anyone run across them anywhere, like shows, e-Bay, etc? Those who have them guard them like the crown jewels. They seem as rare as hen's teeth, and I imagine are dreadfully expensive, when you find one for sale. I "Googled" The Official Guide of the Railways. Kalmbach Memorial Library has a collection covering many years from 1868 - 1993. They list some for sale for $6.00 each from 1964 - 1986. Hope you found this enlightening! Bill Bigler ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Official Guides (of the Railways) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 18:18:07 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com List, I have the following Official Guides, if anyone's interested contact me off list; OFFICIAL RAILWAY GUIDES: 5/90 , 11/69 , 5/85 , 2/69 , 9/85 , 5/72 , 1/86 , 6/68 , 7/86 , 7/76 , 7/86 , 11/79 , 3/87 , 9/80 , 5/87 , 5/69, 2)11/88, 9/75 , 9/72 , 5/74 , 3/74, 7/74 , 9/74 , 2)1/74 , 3/91 , 6/71 , 5/91 , 5/89 , 9/69 , 2)3/89 , 11/74 , 1/89 , 8/70 , 1/90 , 4/70 , 9/90 , 4/71 , 7/89 , 3/90, 1/67 , 3/68 , 7/69 , 1/70 , 2/70 , 10/71 , 3/72 , 5/73 , 9/89 , 7/90 , 12/70 , 5/77 , 7/89 , 1/83 , 7/82 , 3/82 , 11/81 , 7/81 , 1/81 , 7/80, 11/77 , 11/72 , 1/72 The pre-Amtrak one are of course more valuable. The one after 1978 are "The Official Railway Guide Freight Service Edition" No, no PRR era Guides left. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Bigler" To: "PRR-TALK" ; "PRR-FAX" Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 4:56 PM Subject: [PRR] Official Guides (of the Railways) > The thread about tickets on PRR-FAX greatly interested me, and proved very > time consuming! You see, I have reprints of Official Guides for June > 1916, > Jan, 1930, and June 1941. These reprints were sold back in 1978, I > remember > seeing an ad for them in "Trains and Travel Magazine." There was also a > reprint for 1898 which I didn't get for some reason, wish I had! They > chose > these dates as they represented peak years for railroad passenger travel. > I > haven't seen them (or any guides) offered for sale since. > > The reason for this post is provide some information about the Official > Guides - a lot of folks on the lists are too young to remember them, and > very few people have a copy (or reprint) of old ones. So, some specifics: > > The publication was called: "The Official Guide of the Railways and Steam > Navigation Lines of the United States, Porto Rico, Canada, Mexico, and > Cuba. > Also Time Tables of Railroads in Central America." (Note Porto Rico is > their > spelling). > > The book was 7" x 10" and quite thick. The Jan. 1930 edition, which I'm > referring to, is a full 3" thick, and 1760 pages. It came out once/month > and was distributed to all passenger stations, agents, etc. Since a new > one > came out each month, if you were on good terms with an agent, you could > pick > up old ones for free when the new one arrived. It was published by the > National Railway Publication Co, New York. In 1930 an annual subscription > was $18.00; $2.00/single copy. There was a quarterly supplement which > contained: Inter-Line Settlements-Passenger Accounts; Joint Passenger > Tariffs; Railroad Commissions; General Baggage Agents; Railroad > Associations-Traffic Associations, etc; and Old and New Names of Roads > (complete historical list in Jan. edition, last 10 yrs in the other three. > > Leafing through it, from the front, are schedules for various airlines > (most > of which I never heard of, Air Mail Service, followed by lists of > Eastbound > Trans-Atlantic Passenger Sailings, Trans-Atlantic Steamship Lines, and > fares > for > various classes. Also Trans-Pacific Passenger Conference Sailings. These > are followed by railroad passenger timetables, starting with Central & > South > America, then the US beginning with the east and working west. > > And these were complete timetables, not only for first class trains but > every branch line on the railroad. Needless to say, PRR takes up a lot of > room, pages 296-391, nearly 100 pages. For the trains of a particular > line > it listed accommodations on the various trains, such as sleeping, parlor, > dining, coach service and whether the train carried checked baggage and if > so between which stations. Note this is not consist information, but just > accommodations on the various trains. > > To use the guide, you usually started by looking up a station or town and > going from there. You can see why that thread proved very time > consuming - > I got out my old guide reprints and started going through them. And of > course, one thing led to another, etc. For example, what were the > relative > advantages of the Milwaukee Road, Great Northern, and Northern Pacific for > a > trip from Chicago to the Seattle area? > > Back in the '50's nearly all railfans had a few guides, and railroad clubs > used to sponsor contests for their members that involved planning routes. > They'd include several towns you had to spend a night in across the US, > and > you had to plan a route. Objective might be to plan a route with minimum > mileage, or fewest railroads, or minimum time, or fewest train changes, > etc. > Or > perhaps they'd require you to plan a route that avoided major terminals > like > Chicago, St. Louis, etc. Great fun in a day without computers and > calculators! > > Not sure what happened to all those Official Guides and the reprints that > came out in '78. Must still be a lot of them around. Anyone run across > them anywhere, like shows, e-Bay, etc? Those who have them guard them > like > the crown jewels. They seem as rare as hen's teeth, and I imagine are > dreadfully expensive, when you find one for sale. > > I "Googled" The Official Guide of the Railways. Kalmbach Memorial Library > has a collection covering many years from 1868 - 1993. They list some for > sale for $6.00 each from 1964 - 1986. > > Hope you found this enlightening! > > Bill Bigler > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <95F66B98-6E72-11D9-AC43-000A95C04372@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] BLI NW2 Handrail Color Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 20:44:00 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com This topic has been touched upon, but not closed... The newly release BLI PRR NW2's have white handrails. What's the deal? Was this correct for any particular era? I quickly flipped through Morning Suns' Diesel Years series. Found black railings up through @ 1949. Anything railings other than black were yellow. Was there a brief period -- when? -- when the PRR was experimenting with white railings? Or is this a faux pas by BLI? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 20:55:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI NW2 Handrail Color MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com BLI is being BLI again. That should close the case of the handrail goof..... Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hipes" Subject: [PRR] Trains over the Annie Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 04:21:53 +0000 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 22:46:25 -0800 (PST) From: m repka Subject: [PRR] Odd Looking Pennsy Stock Cars From: "Benjamin Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] Odd Looking Pennsy Stock Cars Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 06:02:34 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20050125064625.14875.qmail@web54606.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Mike Repka wrote: "I just got one of those Bowser HO PRR "Livestock Service" cars. When Bowser first came out with that model, I figured that the prototype had to be another Pennsy exclusive! I think it was a 50 ft. car, builders date on the model is 6/36 and the class is a K-9? These looked to be all steel, were the rectangular openings cut out from an existing boxcar, or were they built new that way? With the size of the door openings these cars look like they could have been converted from 50 ft. auto box cars! Lots of them in the class?" The Bowser model is actually a Class K9A double deck stock car (PRR 130000-130103). Starting in 1960, these cars were converted from Class X32A automobile boxcars built in the mid-1930s. A total of 104 Class K9A stock cars were converted. Pennsy also converted Class X32A boxcars into single deck cars, Classes K9 and K9B. See Richard Burg's "The Last Stand of Stock Cars in the East" in the January 1993 Railroad Model Craftsman and my article in the April 2004 The Keystone Modeler for more information on these cars and an article by Greg Martin on upgrading the Bowser model. http://www.prrths.com/Keystone%20Modeler/Keystone_Modeler_NO09.htm Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-Talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] Odd Looking Pennsy Stock Cars Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 06:45:53 -0500 To: m repka X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Jan 25, 2005, at 1:46 AM, m repka wrote: > I just got one of those Bowser HO PRR "Livestock > Service" cars. When Bowser first came out with that > model, I figured that the prototype had to be another > Pennsy exclusive! > I think it was a 50 ft. car, builders date on the > model is 6/36 and the class is a K-9? > These looked to be all steel, were the rectangular > openings cut out from an existing boxcar, or were they > built new that way? > With the size of the door openings these cars look > like they could have been converted from 50 ft. auto > box cars! > Lots of them in the class? Mike Mike, the K9 and K11 stock cars were made from existing box cars. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 04:32:34 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Daniels Subject: RE: [PRR] Odd Looking Pennsy Stock Cars Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 09:10:17 -0800 From: Ed Workman Subject: [PRR] Official Guide reprints From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Winter Keystone Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 17:37:21 +0000 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Has the Winter Keystone been published yet? If it has I didn't get one due to a move and possibly not having my addresss changed in the system in time. What was in it please? Thank you, Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Official Guide reprints Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:43:01 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Cape Ann Train Co.(www.capetrains.com) They have two reprints (Jan '45 & June '54) @ $69 + 6.50 S&H and two 3-CD sets (June '21 & Jan '38) @ $39.95 + 2.50 S&H). Thanks to Rich Copeland on PRR-FAX for the info. Bill Bigler ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Workman" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 12:10 PM Subject: [PRR] Official Guide reprints > I've not seen one of the 1978 era reprints, but check TRAINS magazine > for a little ad for paper and CD reprints. > I bought a 1910 a couple years ago. I recall the outfit is "Cape Anne..." > something > Roughly $80 for paper, but less than half of that for CD, If my brain > dredged that up correctly. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Winter Keystone Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 17:50:17 +0000 X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 14:03:18 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Help! How does it work? Lists, I recently purchased an antique Savage Impact Register. Model "K", serial #K33251 made by Impact Register Company, Champion, Ill. These were used in the railway industry to track the freight car ride while in route. I am assuming the owner of the article being shipped is the one that requests this be mounted on or in the car? I have no photos of it at the present time but picture an old metal domed lunch box but slightly larger. The container is made mostly of pot metal but more likely is aluminum. The top is hinged at the back bottom and when opened, in view is several spools for paper rolls, a centering device that hold a lead point which would mark any vibration or shocks the car receives during its trip. Similar to a seismograph operation. The spools are connected to a spring loaded 16 day windup clock . Once wound the paper turns recording the info for the shipper and shippee. The bottom of the base has 3 brass swing out hinges. These were to be swung out and used as mounting brackets. Either nailed to the roofwalk or inside the car. I have never seen one in use before. This is about all I can find out. Now, I understand how the thing is suppose to work but getting it to do what it is suppose to is the problem. It appears in good working condition. I am guessing 1930-1940 era. I just can't get it to run. I found a key that fits the the clocks but it will not wind either way. Almost feels like it is fully wound, but no evidence of it working. There is only one slide switch that engages the spools to the gears on the clock and I can slide it on and off, and still nothing. Am I missing something? Anyone an x-employee that used these that can enlighten me further of the workings? Boy I find the most darndest things! Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Tcy2bD/SOnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 14:03:18 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Help! How does it work? MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Lists, I recently purchased an antique Savage Impact Register. Model "K", serial #K33251 made by Impact Register Company, Champion, Ill. These were used in the railway industry to track the freight car ride while in route. I am assuming the owner of the article being shipped is the one that requests this be mounted on or in the car? I have no photos of it at the present time but picture an old metal domed lunch box but slightly larger. The container is made mostly of pot metal but more likely is aluminum. The top is hinged at the back bottom and when opened, in view is several spools for paper rolls, a centering device that hold a lead point which would mark any vibration or shocks the car receives during its trip. Similar to a seismograph operation. The spools are connected to a spring loaded 16 day windup clock . Once wound the paper turns recording the info for the shipper and shippee. The bottom of the base has 3 brass swing out hinges. These were to be swung out and used as mounting brackets. Either nailed to the roofwalk or inside the car. I have never seen one in use before. This is about all I can find out. Now, I understand how the thing is suppose to work but getting it to do what it is suppose to is the problem. It appears in good working condition. I am guessing 1930-1940 era. I just can't get it to run. I found a key that fits the the clocks but it will not wind either way. Almost feels like it is fully wound, but no evidence of it working. There is only one slide switch that engages the spools to the gears on the clock and I can slide it on and off, and still nothing. Am I missing something? Anyone an x-employee that used these that can enlighten me further of the workings? Boy I find the most darndest things! Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Help! How does it work? Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 16:14:54 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Gary, Do you have a roll of paper in it? If so, it is not going to tick like a bomb or a clock or anything like that. It may be on and move the paper very slowly - check it after several hours. Or, quite possibly, it's been overwound. You might have a clock repairman familiar with spring wound clocks look at it. Seem to recall though that they did not start running until the first impact when the car was pulled from the siding. Usually, these were placed by a Manager of Damage Prevention and removed by same or a Freight Claim Inspector, not by the shipper and consignee. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 2:03 PM Subject: [PRR] Help! How does it work? > Lists, > > I recently purchased an antique Savage Impact Register. Model "K", > serial #K33251 made by Impact Register Company, Champion, Ill. These > were used in the railway industry to track the freight car ride while in > route. I am assuming the owner of the article being shipped is the one > that requests this be mounted on or in the car? I have no photos of it > at the present time but picture an old metal domed lunch box but > slightly larger. The container is made mostly of pot metal but more > likely is aluminum. The top is hinged at the back bottom and when > opened, in view is several spools for paper rolls, a centering device > that hold a lead point which would mark any vibration or shocks the car > receives during its trip. Similar to a seismograph operation. The spools > are connected to a spring loaded 16 day windup clock . Once wound the > paper turns recording the info for the shipper and shippee. The bottom > of the base has 3 brass swing out hinges. These were to be swung out and > used as mounting brackets. Either nailed to the roofwalk or inside the > car. I have never seen one in use before. This is about all I can find > out. > > Now, I understand how the thing is suppose to work but getting it to > do what it is suppose to is the problem. It appears in good working > condition. I am guessing 1930-1940 era. I just can't get it to run. I > found a key that fits the the clocks but it will not wind either way. > Almost feels like it is fully wound, but no evidence of it working. > There is only one slide switch that engages the spools to the gears on > the clock and I can slide it on and off, and still nothing. Am I missing > something? Anyone an x-employee that used these that can enlighten me > further of the workings? Boy I find the most darndest things! Thanks, > Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work! > > PRR K4s Loco Pics: > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ > > PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > > PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html > > and...... > > PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:09:12 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "sjlash" Subject: [PRR] Eastern Car works web site X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi everyone, I have been trying off and on over the past week or so= to access the Eastern Car Works web site. Has the "address" changed o= r is it something else? I would appreciate any feedback Thanks Ji= m=20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:19:15 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Broadway Ltd. at Harrisburg. MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hello Guys.... Did the Broadway Limited always use the same track/platform when it entered Harrisburg Station westbound during the 1950s,60s? I've been studying photos and movies of the Broadway leaving Harrisburg and it looks like it's always on track 2 or 3 within the station. Even in the PC era it seems to be in that area of the station. The reason I asked this question is because I'm working on some new PRR art that depicts the Broadway in the station. And I want to be sure the train is on the right track. Any info is appreciated. Thanks in advance, Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 16:23:23 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] K4s engines with circulators...what matches the BLI HO K4s Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:34:07 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "sjlash" Subject: Re: [PRR] Eastern Car works web site X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Don, Thanks for the info. But the link from mrrwarehouse leads me to t= he same error type message. Thanks Jim=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: Don R. Millbranth=0D Date: 01/25/05 19:21:58=0D To: sjlash=0D Subject: Re: [PRR] Eastern Car works web site=0D =0D Jim=0D Are you trying http://www.mrrwarehouse com/MRW-Dist/Eastern/Eastern_Car_Works_1.htm=0D don=0D =0D =0D =0D ----- Original Message -----=0D From: "sjlash" =0D To: "PRR Talk" =0D Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 6:09 PM=0D Subject: [PRR] Eastern Car works web site=0D =0D =0D Hi everyone, I have been trying off and on over the past week or so= to access the Eastern=0D Car Works web site. Has the "address" changed or is it something else= ? =20 I would=0D appreciate any feedback Thanks Jim=0D -----------------------------------------------------------------------=0D For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.=0D =0D =0D =0D =0D =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:44:07 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] K4s engines with circulators...what matches the BLI HO MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Doug, The photos of 5497 you mentioned in the book does not match the BLI model. Remember the last of the 5400's, the 5497 included, had the front end frame braces under the smokebox. The TKM modeling committee members already went through many photos of prototype K4s locos. If I recall, very very few locos matched the BLI version. If I recall something like 14-15 photos were found. Granted we can't inspect every photo ever taken but you would think a company such as BLI, or any others for that matter, would produce a more common version of a protoype and not such oddities. As for the pre war version of the BLI, stay away from it if you are not wiling to put the huge effort into it to get it to look proper. Check out the next TKM for a sample. As for the Post War BLI K4s locos, that is your best bet. It is possibe to find a prototype as you have found out. But it does take time finding one......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:19:15 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Broadway Ltd. at Harrisburg. Hello Guys.... Did the Broadway Limited always use the same track/platform when it entered Harrisburg Station westbound during the 1950s,60s? I've been studying photos and movies of the Broadway leaving Harrisburg and it looks like it's always on track 2 or 3 within the station. Even in the PC era it seems to be in that area of the station. The reason I asked this question is because I'm working on some new PRR art that depicts the Broadway in the station. And I want to be sure the train is on the right track. Any info is appreciated. Thanks in advance, Dave Hopson ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Rcy2bD/UOnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:16:20 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Eastern Car works web site From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Jim et al, The ECW web page has been down for somewhere around 2-3 months at least. Of course, it might be difficult for some to notice as the site itself had not been updated in approximately 3 years. Models such as the N&W hopper and PRR F38 were not listed at all. Inquiries around the model world have so far not provided answers. If you want to order ECW stuff, I too suggest MRRW, but don't follow their link back to ECW, rather order the ECW stuff from MRRW. Regards Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL > Don, Thanks for the info. But the link from mrrwarehouse leads me to > the > same error type message. Thanks Jim > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Don R. Millbranth > Date: 01/25/05 19:21:58 > To: sjlash > Subject: Re: [PRR] Eastern Car works web site > > Jim > Are you trying http://www.mrrwarehouse > com/MRW-Dist/Eastern/Eastern_Car_Works_1.htm > don > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "sjlash" > To: "PRR Talk" > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 6:09 PM > Subject: [PRR] Eastern Car works web site > > > Hi everyone, I have been trying off and on over the past week or so > to > access the Eastern > Car Works web site. Has the "address" changed or is it something else? > I would > appreciate any feedback Thanks Jim > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 20:19:27 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] K4s engines with circulators...what matches the BLI HO MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Doug, On page 85 of "The Many Faces of the K-4", K4s 5492 does have the look that I plan on obtaining. Many looked this way in the 40's while operating in Western Pa and Eastern Ohio. Several other possibilties is one with the trainphone but BLI made it very difficult due to the water hatch is cast on. This would need removed, filled in and double hatches mounted lengthwise. Do-able but a lot of work to obtain this version....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] Odd Looking Pennsy Stock Cars Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 20:16:17 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <20050125181255.35258.qmail@web54606.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Mike Repka wrote: "Being 51 years old and born and raised in Pittsburgh Pa., I seem to remember seeing some of these in the 60,s. I think I remember seeing a few on the main line, but my dad worked in what is called the "Strip Dist." of Pittsburgh, (produce dist.) which was right across the river from Herr's Island which was the last slaughter houses in our town, still active until no more than about 1968 or so, but I am trying to jog my memory to remember some of those cars near there which was accessed off of the Conemaugh Line." These cars were most often found on Pennsy's fast stock trains inaugurated in the late 1950s: - NF-6, inaugurated September 1, 1955, daily Chicago - Jersey City on a 29 hour schedule, with setouts at Philadelphia and Newark with some cars continuing to Brooklyn slaughter houses after feeding and watering; and - NF-4, inaugurated October 2, 1958, Monday/Wednesday Chicago-Jersey City, with setouts at Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Trenton, and Newark The Pennsy soon found that its existing K7A and K8 stock cars were inadequate for this new service, and relying on off-line cars wasn't the answer either. The railroad had planned on purchasing new stock cars in Class K10 (proposed number series PRR 127000-127499), but worsening finances led the Pennsy to rebuild obsolescent automobile boxcars instead. See Richard Burg's article in the January 1993 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman for more information. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Rowilki@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 21:17:26 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Trains over the Annie X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 139 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Regarding Trains over the Annie - SC did run as a scheduled train from New Castle to Canton until new Conway yard was opened in the mid 1950's. It was discontinued at about that time.. BEC - Buffalo to Canton and beyond (via Erie and New Castle) . I am not sure when this was discontinued , - some time in the late 50's or maybe as late as 1960. The line had little use until about 1961 or 62 when Republic Steel started shipping coke from its haselton coke ovens to its steel mill in Canton, OH. The PRR hauled this with Pool A from New Castle. It filled the train out with west bound freight and hauled eastbound Youngstown/New Castle freight from Canton - this was in essence SC but was run on "call" from the Pool board. Then about 1965 the GMC Lordstown plant opened and the PRR put on a (I'm stretching my memory) a thru train from Conway to I think Crestline which ran over the "Annie"to carry freight to and from the GMC plant Hope this helps ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 07:45:53 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Eastern Car works web site From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Tuesday, January 25, 2005, at 07:09 PM, sjlash wrote: > Hi everyone, I have been trying off and on over the past week or > so to access the Eastern Car Works web site. Has the "address" > changed or is it something else? I would appreciate any feedback Jim: As a dealer, I started seeing availability issues starting about two months ago. I asked some questions and learned that the owner had moved. Nobody knew what the status of the business was/is at the time. Product availability continues to deteriorate through both of my distributors that handle the Eastern Car Works line. The distributors don't seem to know what's up either. The domain name is registered through 2/06. There is no longer any contact information other than the ISP, Mindspring. If you learn anything, please share. Thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 07:51:07 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway Ltd. at Harrisburg. From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Tuesday, January 25, 2005, at 07:19 PM, zootowerprr@webtv.net wrote: > Did the Broadway Limited always use the same track/platform > when it entered Harrisburg Station westbound during the 1950s,60s? I've > been studying photos and movies of the Broadway leaving Harrisburg and > it looks like it's always on track 2 or 3 within the station. Even in > the PC era it seems to be in that area of the station. Tracks 2 & 3 were typically used by trains coming over the CV bridge (Northern Central). The tracks were numbered from the station building (1) outward (to 10). The longer tracks happened to be the higher numbers. According to the val map, the "main track" westward was track 7, which was the outside of platform 4. I know a lot of the larger trains also used track 8 westward. > The reason I asked this question is because I'm working on > some new PRR art that depicts the Broadway in the station. And I want > to > be sure the train is on the right track. Any info is appreciated. > Thanks in advance, > > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jerry Britton Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 07:51:07 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Broadway Ltd. at Harrisburg. On Tuesday, January 25, 2005, at 07:19 PM, zootowerprr@webtv.net wrote: > Did the Broadway Limited always use the same track/platform > when it entered Harrisburg Station westbound during the 1950s,60s? I've > been studying photos and movies of the Broadway leaving Harrisburg and > it looks like it's always on track 2 or 3 within the station. Even in > the PC era it seems to be in that area of the station. Tracks 2 & 3 were typically used by trains coming over the CV bridge (Northern Central). The tracks were numbered from the station building (1) outward (to 10). The longer tracks happened to be the higher numbers. According to the val map, the "main track" westward was track 7, which was the outside of platform 4. I know a lot of the larger trains also used track 8 westward. > The reason I asked this question is because I'm working on > some new PRR art that depicts the Broadway in the station. And I want > to > be sure the train is on the right track. Any info is appreciated. > Thanks in advance, > > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Tcy2bD/SOnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] Trains over the Annie Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 07:09:54 -0600 From: "Bill Volkmer" X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com When I was at Canton in 1963 we had what we called the "Cherry Tree Turn" which made a daily round trip from Youngstown to Canton. I remember it because the last shark in service in Canton met its waterloo when it hit a gravel truck enroute to Canton. Might this be the Republic Steel train to which you refer/ =20 =20 There is a picture of it (the dead shark) in Canton Diesel Shop in Pennsy Diesel Years Vol 3 if I remember correctly. =20 Bill V. =20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Rowilki@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 9:17 PM To: sthipes@hotmail.com; PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Trains over the Annie =20 Regarding Trains over the Annie - SC did run as a scheduled train from New=20 Castle to Canton until new Conway yard was opened in the mid 1950's. It was=20 discontinued at about that time.. =20 BEC - Buffalo to Canton and beyond (via Erie and New Castle) . I am not=20 sure when this was discontinued , - some time in the late 50's or maybe as late=20 as 1960. =20 The line had little use until about 1961 or 62 when Republic Steel started=20 shipping coke from its haselton coke ovens to its steel mill in Canton, OH. =20 The PRR hauled this with Pool A from New Castle. It filled the train out with=20 west bound freight and hauled eastbound Youngstown/New Castle freight from=20 Canton - this was in essence SC but was run on "call" from the Pool board.=20 =20 Then about 1965 the GMC Lordstown plant opened and the PRR put on a (I'm stretching my memory) a thru train from Conway to I think Crestline which ran over=20 the "Annie"to carry freight to and from the GMC plant=20 =20 Hope this helps ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Breon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Trains over the Annie Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 09:36:23 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com To Bill or anyone else, I'm curious about the phrase "Turn" as used in the reply below. I've = heard this numerous times in reference to freight trains and am = wondering just what it means. Does it refer to scheduled trains that = always return to their point of origin? Thanks. Jerry Breon Birdsboro, PA ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bill Volkmer=20 To: Rowilki@aol.com ; = sthipes@hotmail.com ; = PRR-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 8:09 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] Trains over the Annie When I was at Canton in 1963 we had what we called the "Cherry Tree Turn" which made a daily round trip from Youngstown to Canton. I remember it because the last shark in service in Canton met its waterloo when it hit a gravel truck enroute to Canton. Might this be the Republic Steel train to which you refer/ =20 =20 There is a picture of it (the dead shark) in Canton Diesel Shop in Pennsy Diesel Years Vol 3 if I remember correctly. =20 Bill V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 09:52:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Trains over the Annie From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Wednesday, January 26, 2005, at 09:36 AM, Jerry Breon wrote: > I'm curious about the phrase "Turn" as used in the reply below. I've > heard this numerous times in reference to freight trains and am > wondering just what it means. Does it refer to scheduled trains that > always return to their point of origin? Thanks. Jerry, yes, it's an "out and back" local freight. The "York Haven Turn" went east out of Enola, down the York Haven line to York Haven and back... about 20 miles each way. I don't know that the PRR "officially" called these "turns" as they had numbers assigned to them. But the crews called them turns. An operator of the York Haven Turn resides in York. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] New Haven on the PRR Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 14:54:50 +0000 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Recall as a kid waiting for my father to take the Broadway west from North Philly seeing a train with a lot of New Haven head end equipment come through. Also recall a picture of a New Haven Jet on a train in the Keystone issue about the Baltimore station. How often did New Haven power and rolling stock travel further south then Penn Station in New York? Thank you, Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR talk From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] Trains over the Annie Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 08:51:20 -0600 To: "Jerry Breon" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Jan 26, 2005, at 8:36 AM, Jerry Breon wrote: > To Bill or anyone else, > > I'm curious about the phrase "Turn" as used in the reply below. I've > heard this numerous times in reference to freight trains and am > wondering just what it means. Does it refer to scheduled trains that > always return to their point of origin? Thanks. Jerry, The termn "turn" means a train that returns to its point of origin, generally with the same crew and in the same shift. It need not appear in the ETT as a "scheduled" train however, as many locals were "turns" and were handled as extras. Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: Prr-Talk@dsop.com (PRR-Talk) From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] New Haven on the PRR Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 09:46:04 -0600 To: ndbprr@att.net X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Jan 26, 2005, at 8:54 AM, ndbprr@att.net wrote: > Recall as a kid waiting for my father to take the Broadway west from > North Philly seeing a train with a lot of New Haven head end equipment > come through. Also recall a picture of a New Haven Jet on a train in > the Keystone issue about the Baltimore station. How often did New > Haven power and rolling stock travel further south then Penn Station > in New York? Thank you, Norm Bell Norm, I believe that the presence of the EP-5 jet in Bal'more was due to some testing being done by the PRR. Run through power did not occur until PC/Amtruck. OTOH, many PRR trains had NYNH&H head end equipment, and several trains had run-through NYNH&H passenger cars. A common post WWII sight on the PRR were the NYNH&H converted troop cars in express service. In fact, it seems rare to see a mail and express train without one! Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:03:30 EST Subject: [PRR] Centrailia PRR P85 coaches X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I am in the process of adding and upgrading seats in various HO scale coaches. What are the nearest to prototype commercially available seats for the Centralia Car Shops coaches? Thank you, Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Haven on the PRR Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 15:10:58 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com There were a fair number of Boston-Washington trains beginning with the opening of the Hell Gate bridge and these always had a combination of PRR and New Haven cars on them. Recall some were The Colonial, The Patriot, The Federal, and The Senator. When I worked in Ballamer my son was a real young'un and we used to buy the New Haven's day room in its parlor cars for 10 bucks. My pass was good for the first class fares. Even had etchings of Boston on the walls in the room! Now that's traveling in style. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Smith" To: Cc: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] New Haven on the PRR > > On Jan 26, 2005, at 8:54 AM, ndbprr@att.net wrote: > >> Recall as a kid waiting for my father to take the Broadway west from >> North Philly seeing a train with a lot of New Haven head end equipment >> come through. Also recall a picture of a New Haven Jet on a train in the >> Keystone issue about the Baltimore station. How often did New Haven >> power and rolling stock travel further south then Penn Station in New >> York? Thank you, Norm Bell > > Norm, > > I believe that the presence of the EP-5 jet in Bal'more was due to some > testing being done by the PRR. Run through power did not occur until > PC/Amtruck. OTOH, many PRR trains had NYNH&H head end equipment, and > several trains had run-through NYNH&H passenger cars. A common post WWII > sight on the PRR were the NYNH&H converted troop cars in express service. > In fact, it seems rare to see a mail and express train without one! > > Regards > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith > Auburn, AL > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin > Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] BLI T-1 Question Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 21:33:44 +0000 From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI T-1 Question Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 17:16:40 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Ted: This appears to be a weight and/or balance problem. Is your drawbar hooked properly? If the drawbar is cocked or stiff, you may be getting a slight upward pull at the rear of the loco which would cause loss of traction. Also, check to see if all drivers are hitting the rails. I have had a problem with one of my M-1's that was caused by some missing driver springs. This would also cause loss of traction. Turn the loco over and see if all drivers are sprung. While you're at it, place a steel straight edge across the drivers from front to rear to make sure all drivers are hitting the straight edge. It's possible that one or more drivers is stuck in an up position and not hitting the rails. Also, when the loco is on the tracks, make sure the front and rear trucks are free to move up and down and roll freely. Lastly, check that the tender is rolling free and not causing a drag on the engine. Hope this helps, Larry Reynolds ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Andrews" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 4:33 PM Subject: [PRR] BLI T-1 Question > PRR Listers: > > I have sent the following question into BLI regarding a potentially > defective T-1: > > Over a period of time, I have acquired 3 of your PRR T-1's. Two operate > flawlessly and can pull very long trains. The third one, the un-numbered > one, slips its drivers noticably under the exact same load. By comparing > its performance to my other 2 T-1's, there is a conspicuous difference. My > layout has grades (1.35%) but my other 2 T-1's go up the grades > effortlessly. What do you think is wrong with my 3rd T-1? > > I have emailed BLI but they have not responded. Have any of you had > similar problems with your BLI T-1's > > Thanks in advance! > > Ted Andrews > Carmel, Indiana > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 17:50:22 -0600 From: Morgan Bilbo Subject: Re: [PRR] Eastern Car works web site X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Jerry Britton wrote: > On Tuesday, January 25, 2005, at 07:09 PM, sjlash wrote: > >> Hi everyone, I have been trying off and on over the past week >> or so to access the Eastern Car Works web site. Has the "address" >> changed or is it something else? I would appreciate any feedback > > Jim: > > As a dealer, I started seeing availability issues starting about two > months ago. I asked some questions and learned that the owner had > moved. Nobody knew what the status of the business was/is at the time. > > Product availability continues to deteriorate through both of my > distributors that handle the Eastern Car Works line. The distributors > don't seem to know what's up either. > > The domain name is registered through 2/06. There is no longer any > contact information other than the ISP, Mindspring. > > If you learn anything, please share. Thanks. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop. Hello All IMHO of course. Since we've been bashing ECW for years on this PRR-Talk, what do you expect? He's probably po'd at PRR modelers and decided to go OOB and not bother to tell anyone. Morgan Bilbo, Ferroequinologist, SPF, PRRTHS #1204 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] New Haven on the PRR Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 20:20:44 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <001401c503e3$27b303b0$a8699e0c@DDPXT351> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Norm Bell asked: "How often did New Haven power and rolling stock travel further south then Penn Station in New York?" Gregg Mahlkov answered: "There were a fair number of Boston-Washington trains beginning with the opening of the Hell Gate bridge and these always had a combination of PRR and New Haven cars on them. Recall some were The Colonial, The Patriot, The Federal, and The Senator." Surprised folks didn't pick up on this, seeing that an article on the 1953 Washington Union Station runaway just ran in The Keystone. The runaway was Train #173, The Federal, and New Haven coaches can be seen clearly in the wreck photos: http://www.steamlocomotive.com/GG1/prr4876-crash.jpg http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_prr4876a.jpg Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Rowilki@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 20:36:06 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Trains over the Annie X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 139 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com The question as to the meaning of the word "turn". The "turn" is that when you arrived at the destination the crew would not sign off and take rest but return to its home terminal - with or without a train. I think it was all on one e time slip. On the E&A div. the regular "turns " out of Cherry Street ( New Castle) were - Shenango turn, Girard turn and Canton turn - but it could be to any point. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 21:43:34 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Eastern Car works web site X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 1/26/05 3:56:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, pennsynut@isp.com writes: > All IMHO of course. > Since we've been bashing ECW for years on this PRR-Talk, what do you expect? > He's probably po'd at PRR modelers and decided to go OOB and not bother > to tell anyone. > > Morgan Bilbo, > Ferroequinologist, SPF, PRRTHS #1204 > > ------------------------------------------------ Folks, I agree with Morgan on this point. It's not just on this list though. You should hear some of the ninny whining over on the passenger car list about ECW. Good Lord, you can get some of their cars from the discounters for less than $12 each, and even tossing away the trucks they make a pretty passable 6-6-4, 4-4-2 and GN sleeper type (that nobody else had, model or prototype) with pretty minimal work. And how is anyone, even at the apparently heaven-sent BLI, going to match their line of P70 cars? And at discounter price of less than $20 each? If the fella running ECW has grown tired of all the whining, bitching and lamentations I can't say as I blame him. But I sure hope he hasn't. I'd hate to see someone pick up the dies, send them over to Red China and bring them back ready to run at a mere $60 each. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 00:13:33 -0600 From: Morgan Bilbo Subject: Re: [PRR] Eastern Car works web site X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com BPX29@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/26/05 3:56:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, > pennsynut@isp.com writes: > >> All IMHO of course. >> Since we've been bashing ECW for years on this PRR-Talk, what do you >> expect? He's probably po'd at PRR modelers and decided to go OOB and >> not bother >> to tell anyone. >> >> Morgan Bilbo, >> Ferroequinologist, SPF, PRRTHS #1204 >> > Folks, > I agree with Morgan on this point. It's not just on this list though. > You should hear some of the ninny whining over on the passenger car > list about ECW. Good Lord, you can get some of their cars from the > discounters for less than $12 each, and even tossing away the trucks > they make a pretty passable 6-6-4, 4-4-2 and GN sleeper type (that > nobody else had, model or prototype) with pretty minimal work. And how > is anyone, even at the apparently heaven-sent BLI, going to match > their line of P70 cars? And at discounter price of less than $20 each? > > If the fella running ECW has grown tired of all the whining, bitching > and lamentations I can't say as I blame him. But I sure hope he > hasn't. I'd hate to see someone pick up the dies, send them over to > Red China and bring them back ready to run at a mere $60 each. > Regards, > Barry Peltier Thanks Barry You've added a few points that I overlooked mentioning. I have no budget for RTR Walthers or anyone else. I have several ECW cars picked up at swaps/fleas for $10 or less. A bargain that requires work. But that's what our hobby is all about. Building kits. RTR is for the collectors/operators. Sorry about stepping on toes here. Hobby to me is defined as what you do that makes you happy. "Model Railroading is Fun!" I don't get "fun" out of opening up a box, putting the product on the track and "voilá"! Just don't ask me how many kits I have in unopened boxes awaiting work. LOL As for warped parts, so what. Straighten them out. Bad trucks, change the wheels. Or replace them. But the basic ECW kits are rather nicely done. So if y'all have the money, go ahead and buy those "wonderful" cars at $40 and up. Like I said - IMHO! Morgan Bilbo, Ferroequinologist, SPF, PRRTHS #1204 and Organic Gardener. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: RE: [PRR] Eastern Car works web site Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 07:54:04 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <41F8868D.40809@isp.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jan 2005 12:54:00.0837 (UTC) FILETIME=[45C55B50:01C5046F] Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Morgan, Group, Morgan Said: RTR is for the collectors/operators. I couldn't agree more. I believe that the whole market has shifted compared to 10 years ago. I think it is called instant gratification! What really kills me is the fact that people pay the extravagant prices for the RTR models and then they are not good enough so they end up detailing them more anyway. Looking at the latest issue of MR Mag. Several mail order supply houses are advertising the 2nd run of the BLI M1a & M1b for 144.00 So what happened there? They couldn't unload them at 100.00 more when they came out? A real bargain for someone that wants one but wasn't willing to pay 250.00. I would much rather dig into a Bowser kit and make it look the way I want it to look right from the start..... Just my 2 cents... Sam Vastano You've added a few points that I overlooked mentioning. I have no=20 budget for RTR Walthers or anyone else. I have several ECW cars picked=20 up at swaps/fleas for $10 or less. A bargain that requires work. But=20 that's what our hobby is all about. Sorry about stepping on toes here. Hobby to me=20 is defined as what you do that makes you happy. "Model Railroading is=20 Fun!" I don't get "fun" out of opening up a box, putting the product on the track and "voil=E1"! Just don't ask me how many kits I have in=20 unopened boxes awaiting work. LOL As for warped parts, so what. Straighten them out. Bad trucks, change=20 the wheels. Or replace them. But the basic ECW kits are rather nicely=20 done. So if y'all have the money, go ahead and buy those "wonderful" cars at=20 $40 and up. Like I said - IMHO! Morgan Bilbo, Ferroequinologist, SPF, PRRTHS #1204 and Organic Gardener. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 08:05:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Eastern Car works web site From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Wednesday, January 26, 2005, at 09:24 PM, Ken Hough wrote: > First, he's an over the road trucker. He works for a living. He's a > hobbiest that's providing a service. The molding is done in NJ. > Thats fact. This I've known... > Second: A possible rumor from. Internet hobbies said the ECW P70s > were coming out as RTR in a few months. (the following is conjecture) > Bethlehem Car works did the B60 from ECW parts. Could they be doing > them? The way the market is going, I agree. However, what I'm seeing availability problems with are core kits, clear window sides, sometimes the underbody details... the stuff people need to go with laser cut car sides. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 08:11:33 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Eastern Car works web site From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com > As for warped parts, so what. Straighten them out. Bad trucks, change > the wheels. Or replace them. But the basic ECW kits are rather nicely > done. > > So if y'all have the money, go ahead and buy those "wonderful" cars at > $40 and up. Gee Morgan, by the time I fixed all of the problems with the ECW cars, I'm in at least $40 (see PRRPro where we've been building these kits), so buddy, the cost argument is total BS. BTW, the last ECW roof I got was unfixable it was warped so bad. I'm sorry but that is simply unacceptable. So, I'm supposed to say that ECW is great and their kits are wonderful? Sorry, I was taught back in kindergarden not to lie, so I can't do that for you. Not only that, but every once in a while I hear how folks appreciate an ACCURATE, DESCRIPTIVE product review. You and Barry make a completely fatuous argument about pointing out the defects in models. To call legitimate description of the faults of a model "carping" is simply ridiculous. Frankly, if someone can't take the fact that their models are described accurately, rather than in the fluffy lovey dovey crap pushed by Model Railroader, then that is THEIR problem. To blame the messenger is simply outrageous. I know my reviews for TKM will continue to point out both the good and the bad, so that modelers can make an EDUCATED purchase, whether that be RTR or kit (see for example the 121-1 review) and I REFUSE to pull punches because somebody's feelings might get hurt. Meanwhile, I'll assume that you will be happy to go back to the days when 40' boxcar meant the athearn box, and an athearn coach painted PENNSYLVANIA would do just fine for a P70?? Sincerely. if somewhat grumpily yours Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PowersItBe@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 10:56:37 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR/NYC sideswipe wreck Ashtabula, OH 2/12/1944 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I'm trying to get additional information on this wreck. I have all the newspapr articles and ICC report on it. I need to know why a PRR locomotive that when on duty at Ashtabula just prior to starting a road move needed coal from the NYC tipple at Ashtabula. This was a move via trackage rights with a pilot to shuttle empty hoppers from PRR Ashtabula to Cleveland PRR Whiskey Island docks. I also am curious what instructions the NYC pilot got from the NYC dispatcher about crossing over all 4 main tracks to get to the coal tipple in light of oncoming & overtaking NYC freight & passenger trains. Can any of you offer any insight, or refer me to retirees who recall this event or were told about it by other employees? William J Powers Waxhaw, NC 877-931-0750 toll free 704-843-0743 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 11:33:10 -0600 From: Morgan Bilbo Subject: Re: [PRR] Eastern Car works web site X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu wrote: >>As for warped parts, so what. Straighten them out. Bad trucks, change the wheels. Or replace them. But the basic ECW kits are rather nicely done. >> >>So if y'all have the money, go ahead and buy those "wonderful" cars at $40 and up. >> >> >Gee Morgan, by the time I fixed all of the problems with the ECW cars, I'm in at least $40 (see PRRPro where we've been building these kits), so buddy, the cost argument is total BS. BTW, the last ECW roof I got was unfixable it was warped so bad. I'm sorry but that is simply unacceptable. So, I'm supposed to say that ECW is great and their kits are wonderful? Sorry, I was taught back in kindergarden not to lie, so I can't do that for you. Not only that, but every once in a while I hear >how folks appreciate an ACCURATE, DESCRIPTIVE product review. > >You and Barry make a completely fatuous argument about pointing out the defects in models. To call legitimate description of the faults of a model "carping" is simply ridiculous. Frankly, if someone can't take the fact that their models are described accurately, rather than in the fluffy lovey dovey crap pushed by Model Railroader, then that is THEIR problem. To blame the messenger is simply outrageous. I know my reviews for TKM will continue to point out both the good and the bad, so that modelers can make an EDUCATED purchase, whether that be RTR or kit (see for example the 121-1 review) and I REFUSE to pull punches because somebody's feelings might get hurt. > >Meanwhile, I'll assume that you will be happy to go back to the days when 40' boxcar meant the athearn box, and an athearn coach painted PENNSYLVANIA would do just fine for a P70?? > >Sincerely. if somewhat grumpily yours >Bruce > >Bruce Smith >Auburn, AL > To all in PRR-Talk. I wrote privately to Bruce advising him this is not TKM. Also, what it means to "assume". But for all. I stated in the beginning. This is _In My Humble Opinion_. Now Bruce has stated his. To each his/her own to make his/her opinion. You spends your money, you makes your choice. Maybe I should not express any more of my opinions. It seems that if Barry and Sam wish to agree with me, they too, may need to reconsider expressing an opinion on PRR-Talk where apparently Bruce is "top gun" and un-official spokesperson for all the PRR modelers. This is NOT intended to insult Bruce, I'm only upset because he chose to chastise me for expressing an opinion. I met you, Bruce, in Cincinnati. I thought you were a gentleman. Apparently, your recent health problems have made you a bitter man. I suggest prayer for yourself, you sure need it. I continue to pray for you. Because I believe in prayer healing. My sincere apology to Jerry. This is a PRR site. And I know that ECW makes kits for PRR cars. That was the topic, and I apologize to all (especially Bruce) for instigating this recent thread. Morgan Bilbo, Ferroequinologist, SPF, PRRTHS #1204 Organic Gardener. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 12:43:36 -0500 Subject: LISTMEISTER was Re: [PRR] Eastern Car works web site From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com ALL... Opinions are welcome on PRR-talk, as long as they are noted as such. Today they were, but opposing opinions were at extremes. This doesn't happen often, but it can happen on an unmoderated list. I'd suggest all involved go out to recess for about 30 minutes to run off that excess energy! Back to "civil" discussion, please. Thank you. ---------------------------------------- Listmaster Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 14:49:19 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Eastern Car works web site X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 1/27/2005 8:12:27 AM Central Standard Time, smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu writes: > Meanwhile, I'll assume that you will be happy to go back to the days when > 40' boxcar meant the athearn box, and an athearn coach painted > PENNSYLVANIA would do just fine for a P70?? > > Sincerely. if somewhat grumpily yours > Bruce > ---------------------------------------------. Ya know, there's actually an unintentional grain of wisdom in the quoted remarks above. I've learned to turn off the computer more and it's covies of nitpicking whiners, and to work on the layout more. Now and then I take a break and dig through the older mags stored underneath the benchwork. Sometimes I look over, utter horror of horrors, some of the old copies of Model Trains. Just for, of all thing, to be reminded of how modelers used to know how to have fun and enjoy themselves, without having to crap on the next guy's models. To be reminded of the days when the Athearn plastic boxcar WAS a real break, and the simpler and highly enjoyable modeling of those days. You could, by the way, get several ersatz P70 variants from Walthers at that time as well. What complete morons, eh? Knocking together layouts, working on scernery and scratchbuilding things, using handwritten switch lists for operation, when we could have put our time to good use bitching and whining. And dwelling on email lists instead of working in those dingy ol' basements. We's much smarter now, ain't we, knowing what's all important about the hobby. Of course, it's a slowly declining hobby, which I can't understand. I thought everybody enjoyed constant whining and griping about everything. (Whoops, that's not quite correct. Some brands we never say bad things about excepting the mildest little remarks). Take my word for it. Worry about what's important, not picayune details. And, come to think of it, you'd be surprised what you can do with an Athearn boxcar if you put a little effort into it. And some of those MT articles on structure building are still pretty good reference material. I'd hate like hell to use nails on my layout though, rather than screws! Morgan, you have nothing to apologize for, though I commend your kindly attitude. Now, as for me, I've got to get back downstairs to the layout. I've been doing some reconstruction and haven't enjoyed anything so much in years. Enough time wasted on the computer. Happy modeling gentry. Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 15:22:01 -0800 From: Dennis Subject: [PRR] Branchline to offer RTR Pullmans User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.2 X-Originating-IP: 24.225.144.171 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - venus.euao.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - dsop.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - onerrave.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Here is a copy of the newsletter that I received. The price is to be announced within the next week. The quantities are said to be very limited. They will start taking reservations next week. Delivery is estimated within the next 4 to 6 weeks. >From Branchline: Branchline is now offering a limited number of our 12-1 Pullman sleepers ready to run. These cars feature metal wheels, Kadee #5 couplers, correct underbody details and COMPLETE paint and decoration. Reserve today... PULLMAN - POOL SERVICE (GREEN) 15301 Kern 15302 McClendon 15303 Orange Bay PULLMAN - NEW YORK CENTRAL SERVICE (GREEN) 15306 Brockway 15307 East Oswego 15308 East Rochester SOUTHERN PACIFIC - GREEN 15309 Inyo 15310 Los Angeles 15311 San Francisco PENNSYLVANIA 1947 GOLD "PULLMAN" WITH STRIPES 15313 Lloydville 15314 Oliver Hazard Perry 15315 Thaddeus Stevens PENNSYLVANIA 1948-1953 GOLD "PENNSYLVANIA" WITH STRIPES 15317 Laughlin 15318 Marcus Loew 15319 Timothy Pickering PENNSYLVANIA 1953-1968 BUFF "PENNSYLVANIA" WITH STRIPES 15321 James Logan 15322 Peter Cooper 15323 Senate Dennis D & S Hobbies ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Park Varieties" Subject: [PRR] Re: [PCL] Branchline to offer RTR Pullmans Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 18:50:02 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com MSRP is $64.98. No mention if they are going to put window shades in them. Frank Brua ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis" To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 6:22 PM Subject: [PCL] Branchline to offer RTR Pullmans > > Here is a copy of the newsletter that I received. The price is to be > announced > within the next week. The quantities are said to be very limited. They > will > start taking reservations next week. Delivery is estimated within the > next 4 > to 6 weeks. > >>From Branchline: > > Branchline is now offering a limited number of our 12-1 Pullman sleepers > ready > to run. These cars feature metal wheels, Kadee #5 couplers, correct > underbody > details and COMPLETE paint and decoration. Reserve today... > > > PULLMAN - POOL SERVICE (GREEN) > 15301 Kern > 15302 McClendon > 15303 Orange Bay > > > PULLMAN - NEW YORK CENTRAL SERVICE (GREEN) > 15306 Brockway > 15307 East Oswego > 15308 East Rochester > > > SOUTHERN PACIFIC - GREEN > 15309 Inyo > 15310 Los Angeles > 15311 San Francisco > > > PENNSYLVANIA 1947 > GOLD "PULLMAN" WITH STRIPES > 15313 Lloydville > 15314 Oliver Hazard Perry > 15315 Thaddeus Stevens > > > PENNSYLVANIA 1948-1953 > GOLD "PENNSYLVANIA" WITH STRIPES > 15317 Laughlin > 15318 Marcus Loew > 15319 Timothy Pickering > PENNSYLVANIA 1953-1968 > > > BUFF "PENNSYLVANIA" WITH STRIPES > 15321 James Logan > 15322 Peter Cooper > 15323 Senate > > > Dennis > > D & S Hobbies > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PassengerCarList/ > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > PassengerCarList-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Peters" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Haven on the PRR Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 19:24:16 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com But never NH locomotives, to my knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Benjamin Hom" To: Cc: "'PRR-Talk'" Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 8:20 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] New Haven on the PRR > Norm Bell asked: > "How often did New Haven power and rolling stock travel further south then > Penn Station in New York?" > > Gregg Mahlkov answered: > "There were a fair number of Boston-Washington trains beginning with the > opening of the Hell Gate bridge and these always had a combination of PRR > and New Haven cars on them. Recall some were The Colonial, The Patriot, The > Federal, and The Senator." > > Surprised folks didn't pick up on this, seeing that an article on the 1953 > Washington Union Station runaway just ran in The Keystone. The runaway was > Train #173, The Federal, and New Haven coaches can be seen clearly in the > wreck photos: > > http://www.steamlocomotive.com/GG1/prr4876-crash.jpg > http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_prr4876a.jpg > > > Ben Hom > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "monchie of nyc" Subject: [PRR] Reading on the (Ex-)PRR Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 00:05:29 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com With the thread about New Haven equipment appearing on the PRR, I was reminded of something my father told me about Reading commuter MU cars. = (My late dad worked for the PRR, then PC and Conrail, and finally retired = from SEPTA.) =20 After the Center City commuter tunnel was finished, ex-Reading MU's = started running through onto ex-PRR lines, and vice versa. Now, for the Silverliners, this wasn't a big deal, since they were pretty much the = same design on both railroads, though there may have been some minor = differences. However, for the first time, the then-50-year-old Reading Blueliners ran through onto the ex-PRR - I remember seeing them a few times in rush = hour service in the mid Eighties. But, according to my father, the Blueliners were restricted to one line: the R3 Media/Elwyn. He said the reason was because the Blueliners didn't have cab signals, and Amtrak would not = allow such trains on its tracks. So, since the R3 was the only ex-PRR line = that didn't use Amtrak trackage, in the post-commuter-tunnel era the = Blueliners ran pretty much exclusively on the R3 from West Trenton on the Reading = side to Elwyn on the PRR side. =20 Three further semi-guesses expanding on what my dad told me: 1) PRR's MP54's, which I believe were slightly older than the Blueliners, never = ran through to the Reading side because they'd been retired for several = years by the time the commuter tunnel opened. 2) SEPTA never seriously considered upgrading the Blueliners since they were near retirement anyway. 3) = Although the R3 tracks run directly adjacent to Amtrak's Northeast Corridor line = for a short distance west of University City station, the tracks it uses are owned by SEPTA; back in PRR days, all the trackage in that area was = owned by the Pennsy, but now some is owned by Amtrak, some by SEPTA, and I = believe the tracks leading toward the high line are owned by CSX. =20 Then again I could be talking through my hat :-) =20 =20 - monchie b. monchum =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! h=Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=MIch+aJ3RO4A5z+sbkihGwODFohkLJDSlOEVHm90EOAKnQhaz8ALMFfVut5oQNwM; h=Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=MIch+aJ3RO4A5z+sbkihGwODFohkLJDSlOEVHm90EOAKnQhaz8ALMFfVut5oQNwM; h=Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=MIch+aJ3RO4A5z+sbkihGwODFohkLJDSlOEVHm90EOAKnQhaz8ALMFfVut5oQNwM; Message-ID: <002e01c504fd$de3ace40$4a89aec7@hoxiecomp> Reply-To: "STEPHEN HOXIE" From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" To: "PRR-TALK" References: Subject: Kits, RTR or ? (was Re: [PRR] Eastern Car works web site) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 23:54:43 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 65fbc22f705d6e9971639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9403064dd91684bae5d62e0fb27b4def57e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 199.174.137.113 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Sam, Morgan, Bruce, Listers-- First, Bruce, cheer up! We are making progress--after all, hardly anyone puts dashes in freight car classes anymore! Each of us has his own modeling niche; this expresses my niche and is not intended to disparage anyone else's. Since this started out as an ECW thread, let me begin there. The loss of ECW, if it is happening, will be a major loss to us. The Alco Models, then ECW, P70 model was state of the art when it was introduced. Today, there is still nothing that comes close. Some will say the Bachmann model is out there, but to my eye it lacks crispness of detail and is somewhat coarse in the window treatment. It is true that the ECW clerestory roof is a pain to assemble and get it straight. As I recall, for a while there was a single piece clerestory available. There have been many complaints, all justified, regarding ECW trucks. For a long time they were the only game in town, but that was before one of the axle holes in the mold went out of register. I made several pair work well using KD 36" wheelsets. Some will use MDC trucks, in spite of their not looking like PRR trucks. Some will use Bethlehem Car Works trucks, but I remain unconvinced of the practicality of pot metal sideframes. Some will use brass trucks, but they have a reputation for not being able to roll out of their own way. With all that as background, modeling of PRR passenger trains has just run headlong into the 21st century with the introduction of the very nice Walthers R50b and pre-war PS105, the Centralia P85b, and the gorgeous Branchline Pullman cars. (By all accounts the Walthers Pullman cars are very nice also, but I haven't seen one. By all means, everyone should read Bruce's review in the Dec 04 TKM.) The R50b's are RTR, except for adding grabs. My preference would be for a kit, but it is the only game in town so I have several. Are they perfect? Of course not. They need the couplers moved back and underframe details. For my era, the PS105 has to be bought undec so it comes as a kit. Since I model the Susquehanna Division in 1954, now my P70's without air are way out of place. No P85b's were used on this division. I need P70kR and P70gsR coaches. I don't anticipate anyone producing these as complete models so that means either NKP Car Co. brass sides or Laser Horizons plastic sides mounted on a core with details added. My preference is Laser Horizons, mostly because the sides incorporate the vestiges of the pre-war underbody skirts, which are not on the NKP sides. So now I need several ECW P70 cores (ends, floor, low arch roof). A friend will be looking for derelicts at Timonium next weekend. The point to all this is that, to model what I want to model, I must use RTR, kits, as well as serious kitbashing, whatever it takes. If I have a need for a particular car, I will adapt my modeling capabilities as necessary to accommodate what I can find in the marketplace. Price is always an issue so I am careful where I shop; even if the R50b were offered as a kit, I don't believe it would be significantly cheaper. Lest I give the impression that all is rosy, there is still a crying need for baggage-mail, patlors, and cafe coaches. Now on to baggage cars. The Bethlehem B60b has become a staple. Some criticize the kit because the doors are not inset quite enough. And there is still the ever present truck issue. Sensing a market opportunity, Intermountain has partnered with Bethlehem to produce RTR models. It will no doubt be well done, and the kit will still be available. Now comes Walthers doing a rails up new B60b. My first question is ,"Why?" This is the kind of thing which aggravates me. Why split the PRR B60b market? It would have been so much better for us had Walthers decided to develop a BM70m or (be still my heart!) BM70ka (that's the one with two baggage doors) or a parlor car. When I apply this question to PRR steam engines, I must state that I see things very differently from Sam. (Again, this expresses my niche and is not intended to disparage anyone else's. If its PRR, it must be good!) In my modeling endeavors, I have two equally important objectives: (1) it must operate as good as possible, and (2) it must look as close to a particular prototype as possible. Penn Line (now Bowser) was fine in 1959 when the trusty Lionel was traded in for HO. As my modeling interests began to focus, the L1 and K4 were ok, but the I1 with K4 boiler and H9 and E6 with square firebox just didn't cut it. Then Cary came out with a better I1 boiler, first lead, then bronze. However, I began to realize the thickness of the walkways and other details, the hambuger sized rivets, and the terrible tenders left much to be desired. Then I saw my first PFM L1. Now there is a serious model. I was instantly hooked on brass. Fortunately, as my modeling interests were maturing, life was happening, and I was able to afford careful brass purchases. A PFM K4 followed, but when I looked at the PFM I1, I was disappointed. United had made a major mis-step with the first run, copying Penn Line/Bowser with a K4 sized boiler and several wrong details. Subsequent runs had these errors corrected, but the left side detailing around the feedwater heater followed an earlier era than the early/mid 50's I was beginning to focus on. I wasn't eager to do any bashing on brass.......yet. A disassembled, more or less basket case Gem M1b became available and I soon learned that all brass was not made equal. The need to upgrade various details gave some soldering experience. Can motors were becoming available, and articles in MR and others were extolling their virtues; the bar keeps changing in "operate as good as possible". In the mid 80's Sunset began marketing inexpensive PRR models; finally an H9 was available at a good price. Only a few details needed work, and it had a tender perfect for 1954, but it left much to be desired operationally. A friend convinced me to try installing an idler gearbox with a Sagami can motor, and the performance bar moved again. The first of several I1's followed with detail improvements (what is that thing where the feedwater heater is supposed to be?) and the now standard idler gearbox/Sagami installation. Sunset got the boiler profile, the shape of each of the courses, just right; so with corrected details, it looks even better than the PFM model. Then DCC came along, and the performance bar made a huge jump upward. And now Broadway Limited comes out with their engines. My experience with these has been with the three M1b's I own plus another M1b and T1 that a friend asked me to weather. First, the T1; this is a fabulous engine. I am convinced that this is the finest model of the T1 ever produced--better than Bowser ever dreamed of and way ahead of any brass offerings. I think the M1b's are also fantastic engines. Are they perfect? Of course not. Are they worth the money? Let's see: I spent $220 for my first one; I would have spent that even if it didn't have the electronics. I think the engine is that good. While I was waiting to see what would come out next, the "fire sale" started and I was able to happily pick up two more. I certainly did not buy them because they were ready to run; I bought them because they were good models, with the potential to be made better. That is the same reason I bought brass engines--not because they were RTR. Some details needed upgrading; some weight had to be added--same as brass. The engines have given no problems that were not of my own making, just like the rest of my rolling stock. Yes, they are well worth the money. And it is not a bad thing that the superstructures are plastic. I have detailed Bowser and brass engines; plastic is so much easier to work with. That may be more than you wanted to know; probably a nickel's worth compared to Sam's two cents. Sam, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. Now back to that Pullman.... Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Vastano" To: "'Morgan Bilbo'" ; Cc: Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 6:54 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] Eastern Car works web site Morgan, Group, Morgan Said: RTR is for the collectors/operators. I couldn't agree more. I believe that the whole market has shifted compared to 10 years ago. I think it is called instant gratification! What really kills me is the fact that people pay the extravagant prices for the RTR models and then they are not good enough so they end up detailing them more anyway. Looking at the latest issue of MR Mag. Several mail order supply houses are advertising the 2nd run of the BLI M1a & M1b for 144.00 So what happened there? They couldn't unload them at 100.00 more when they came out? A real bargain for someone that wants one but wasn't willing to pay 250.00. I would much rather dig into a Bowser kit and make it look the way I want it to look right from the start..... Just my 2 cents... Sam Vastano You've added a few points that I overlooked mentioning. I have no budget for RTR Walthers or anyone else. I have several ECW cars picked up at swaps/fleas for $10 or less. A bargain that requires work. But that's what our hobby is all about. Sorry about stepping on toes here. Hobby to me is defined as what you do that makes you happy. "Model Railroading is Fun!" I don't get "fun" out of opening up a box, putting the product on the track and "voilá"! Just don't ask me how many kits I have in unopened boxes awaiting work. LOL As for warped parts, so what. Straighten them out. Bad trucks, change the wheels. Or replace them. But the basic ECW kits are rather nicely done. So if y'all have the money, go ahead and buy those "wonderful" cars at $40 and up. Like I said - IMHO! Morgan Bilbo, Ferroequinologist, SPF, PRRTHS #1204 and Organic Gardener. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Cooper" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Haven on the PRR Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 19:22:06 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com The NH motors wouldn't have had cab signals, right? So they couldn't lead a PRR train. I recall a cab ride in an E60 from New York to New Haven in the late 70's. The cab signal displayed approach-medium the whole way east from New Rochelle. The explaination as I recall was that they used coded track circuits that the cab signals (falsely) detected as approach-medium. I distinctly remember my father's astonishment. Anyone know when the NH installed cab signals in their electrified territory? John ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Peters" To: "Benjamin Hom" ; Cc: "'PRR-Talk'" Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 4:24 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] New Haven on the PRR > But never NH locomotives, to my knowledge. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Benjamin Hom" > To: > Cc: "'PRR-Talk'" > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 8:20 PM > Subject: RE: [PRR] New Haven on the PRR > > > > Norm Bell asked: > > "How often did New Haven power and rolling stock travel further south then > > Penn Station in New York?" > > > > Gregg Mahlkov answered: > > "There were a fair number of Boston-Washington trains beginning with the > > opening of the Hell Gate bridge and these always had a combination of PRR > > and New Haven cars on them. Recall some were The Colonial, The Patriot, > The > > Federal, and The Senator." > > > > Surprised folks didn't pick up on this, seeing that an article on the 1953 > > Washington Union Station runaway just ran in The Keystone. The runaway > was > > Train #173, The Federal, and New Haven coaches can be seen clearly in the > > wreck photos: > > > > http://www.steamlocomotive.com/GG1/prr4876-crash.jpg > > http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_prr4876a.jpg > > > > > > Ben Hom > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Peters" Subject: Re: [PRR] Reading on the (Ex-)PRR Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 02:56:24 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com FYI At one time all RDG Mu's had cab signals a/c needed from Jenkintown to Lansdale. Cab signals taken out sometime in 1960's? Boomer ----- Original Message ----- From: "monchie of nyc" To: Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 12:05 AM Subject: [PRR] Reading on the (Ex-)PRR With the thread about New Haven equipment appearing on the PRR, I was reminded of something my father told me about Reading commuter MU cars. (My late dad worked for the PRR, then PC and Conrail, and finally retired from SEPTA.) After the Center City commuter tunnel was finished, ex-Reading MU's started running through onto ex-PRR lines, and vice versa. Now, for the Silverliners, this wasn't a big deal, since they were pretty much the same design on both railroads, though there may have been some minor differences. However, for the first time, the then-50-year-old Reading Blueliners ran through onto the ex-PRR - I remember seeing them a few times in rush hour service in the mid Eighties. But, according to my father, the Blueliners were restricted to one line: the R3 Media/Elwyn. He said the reason was because the Blueliners didn't have cab signals, and Amtrak would not allow such trains on its tracks. So, since the R3 was the only ex-PRR line that didn't use Amtrak trackage, in the post-commuter-tunnel era the Blueliners ran pretty much exclusively on the R3 from West Trenton on the Reading side to Elwyn on the PRR side. Three further semi-guesses expanding on what my dad told me: 1) PRR's MP54's, which I believe were slightly older than the Blueliners, never ran through to the Reading side because they'd been retired for several years by the time the commuter tunnel opened. 2) SEPTA never seriously considered upgrading the Blueliners since they were near retirement anyway. 3) Although the R3 tracks run directly adjacent to Amtrak's Northeast Corridor line for a short distance west of University City station, the tracks it uses are owned by SEPTA; back in PRR days, all the trackage in that area was owned by the Pennsy, but now some is owned by Amtrak, some by SEPTA, and I believe the tracks leading toward the high line are owned by CSX. Then again I could be talking through my hat :-) - monchie b. monchum ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 13:18:28 GMT Subject: [PRR] PRR/NH run through Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 08:36:45 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "sjlash" Subject: [PRR] ECW again X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi Jerry, and listers, Had I known this would have opened up a can= of worms, or old wounds, I would never have asked the original question.= After reading the various opinions, etc., I will say only this.... := -) ECW is still one of only a few places for P70's. I knew that a b= it of work was needed, either with ECW, Laser Horizons, etc. We all mode= l PRR as this is an ARTISTIC enterprise, "beauty is in the eye of th= e beholder." If you hesitate at this, just look around at our "significan= t others", Again gang my apologies Good Day to" y'uns " and= play nice Jim =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: MLiebeskin@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:08:51 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/28/05. Re: warped parts X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Warped plastic parts seem to be an often enough problem (ECW, whatever) that I offer this remedy that I have used on occasion with success. Place the offending part on a baking sheet and place it in a Warm oven and leave it in just long enough for the part to flatten. Wait for part to thoroughly cool. Extreme caution is advised. I hope this helps. Good luck, John Liebeskind ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: "PRR-TALK" From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: Kits, RTR or ? (was Re: [PRR] Eastern Car works web site) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 09:44:38 -0600 To: "STEPHEN HOXIE" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Jan 27, 2005, at 11:54 PM, STEPHEN HOXIE wrote: > The Bethlehem B60b has become a staple. Some criticize the kit > because the > doors are not inset quite enough. And there is still the ever present > truck > issue. Sensing a market opportunity, Intermountain has partnered with > Bethlehem to produce RTR models. It will no doubt be well done, and > the kit > will still be available. Now comes Walthers doing a rails up new > B60b. My > first question is ,"Why?" This is the kind of thing which aggravates > me. > Why split the PRR B60b market? It would have been so much better for > us had > Walthers decided to develop a BM70m or (be still my heart!) BM70ka > (that's > the one with two baggage doors) or a parlor car. Part of the question is who is REALLY splitting the market. Because it is a ground up new car, the Walthers car was actually in the plans long before the IM/BCW/ECW RTR B60B was announced. So from the Walthers perspective, they were looking at competing with the ECW kit market. The IM/BCW/ECW B60B has not flooded the RTR market with something like 1000 units imported. When Walthers looks to a market, they look at a minimum of 10,000 units to consider diving in. Walthers will sell the B60B to lots of non-PRR modelers who need these cars for run-through, just like the R50B. While I don't disagree that we need a nice BM70something, I wouldn't look to Walthers necessarily to do it. It will only sell to PRR modelers, and in fewer numbers to each modeler. Sounds like a perfect resin project to me. Note that Walthers has sent out surveys to select dealers inquiring about P70s (original and modernized) so a P70 may be on their radar. Now, here's an idea I've been working on... modular PRR passenger cars. What we need is a good postal section (door + window), baggage section (door) and passenger sections (2 and 3 window for P70 and Mp54 respectively). With these, one could assemble many of the different BM classes as well as my elusive favorite, the PBM70A. Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR/NH run through Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 09:59:43 -0600 Message-ID: <2261A19CD8CAD8449EFD62CAA311A7488B45D1@EXCHANGE.herzogcompanies.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] PRR/NH run through Thread-Index: AcUFPBeNL9jUFeO4RDuxPx1Wi/jxdQAFjL3g From: "Bill Volkmer" To: "Dominic Mazoch" , Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Yes - On mail and express trains only and only in the middle of the trains -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Dominic Mazoch Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 8:18 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] PRR/NH run through On some trains, did PRR cabooses run through on the NH, and vise versa? Thanks, Dominic Mazoch ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: Kits, RTR or ? (was Re: [PRR] Eastern Car works web site) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 11:07:06 -0500 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 11:57:40 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Branchline Pullmans in Ready To Run From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Public Service Announcement... As alluded to yesterday, Branchline Trains is doing an EXTREMELY LIMITED RELEASE of HO scale 12-1 Pullman heavyweights in READY-TO-RUN to test the market. Car names run will not duplicate names used on kits. Cars will arrive in batches from late March through April. They are offering 3 of each of the following paint schemes of interest to PRR modelers: Pullman Pool Service - Green PRR - "FLeet of Moderism" - 1941-1947 PRR - Gold lettering with PULLMAN on letterboard - 1947 PRR - Gold lettering with PENNSYLVANIA on letterboard - 1948-1953 PRR - Buff lettering with PENNSYLVANIA on letterboard - 1953-1968 FWIW, they are also doing New York Central and Southern Pacific. Retail is $64.98, but you're likely to find a price lower than that if you shop around! ;-) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 12:21:34 -0600 From: Morgan Bilbo Subject: Re: Kits, RTR or ? (was Re: [PRR] Eastern Car works web site) X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Bruce Smith wrote: > On Jan 27, 2005, at 11:54 PM, STEPHEN HOXIE wrote: > >> The Bethlehem B60b has become a staple. Some criticize the kit >> because the doors are not inset quite enough. And there is still the >> ever present truck issue. Sensing a market opportunity, >> Intermountain has partnered with Bethlehem to produce RTR models. It >> will no doubt be well done, and the kit will still be available. Now >> comes Walthers doing a rails up new B60b. My first question is >> ,"Why?" This is the kind of thing which aggravates me. Why split the >> PRR B60b market? It would have been so much better for us had >> Walthers decided to develop a BM70m or (be still my heart!) BM70ka >> (that's the one with two baggage doors) or a parlor car. > > Part of the question is who is REALLY splitting the market. Because > it is a ground up new car, the Walthers car was actually in the plans > long before the IM/BCW/ECW RTR B60B was announced. So from the > Walthers perspective, they were looking at competing with the ECW kit > market. The IM/BCW/ECW B60B has not flooded the RTR market with > something like 1000 units imported. When Walthers looks to a market, > they look at a minimum of 10,000 units to consider diving in. > Walthers will sell the B60B to lots of non-PRR modelers who need these > cars for run-through, just like the R50B. While I don't disagree that > we need a nice BM70something, I wouldn't look to Walthers necessarily > to do it. It will only sell to PRR modelers, and in fewer numbers to > each modeler. Sounds like a perfect resin project to me. Note that > Walthers has sent out surveys to select dealers inquiring about P70s > (original and modernized) so a P70 may be on their radar. > > Now, here's an idea I've been working on... modular PRR passenger > cars. What we need is a good postal section (door + window), baggage > section (door) and passenger sections (2 and 3 window for P70 and Mp54 > respectively). With these, one could assemble many of the different > BM classes as well as my elusive favorite, the PBM70A. > > Regards > Bruce Well Goll Dangit, Bruce Is this a first?, I can agree 100% with you - modular PRR passenger car parts. Why didn't the manufacturers think of that? LOL Morgan Bilbo, Ferroequinologist, SPF, PRRTHS #1204 Organic Gardener. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Park Varieties" Subject: Re: [PRR] Branchline Pullmans in Ready To Run Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 14:38:55 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Has anyone checked the names being used on the FOM cars to make sure the actual cars didn't have skirts? The names are Chevy Chase, Christopher Columbus and George Armistead. Frank Brua ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 11:57 AM Subject: [PRR] Branchline Pullmans in Ready To Run > Public Service Announcement... > > As alluded to yesterday, Branchline Trains is doing an EXTREMELY LIMITED > RELEASE of HO scale 12-1 Pullman heavyweights in READY-TO-RUN to test the > market. Car names run will not duplicate names used on kits. Cars will > arrive in batches from late March through April. They are offering 3 of > each of the following paint schemes of interest to PRR modelers: > > Pullman Pool Service - Green > PRR - "FLeet of Moderism" - 1941-1947 > PRR - Gold lettering with PULLMAN on letterboard - 1947 > PRR - Gold lettering with PENNSYLVANIA on letterboard - 1948-1953 > PRR - Buff lettering with PENNSYLVANIA on letterboard - 1953-1968 > > FWIW, they are also doing New York Central and Southern Pacific. > > Retail is $64.98, but you're likely to find a price lower than that if you > shop around! ;-) > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Royce Gossett" Subject: [PRR] how do I change my email address for this list? Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 14:27:55 -0600 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I have a new email address. how do I change my address for this list? Thanks Jeff Thomas Denton, Tx. New email - jthomasmet@verizon.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bruce Smith Subject: [PRR] Trix announces PRR GG1, boxcar, N5c cabin in HO Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 14:33:17 -0600 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Folks, Chris Chaney alerted me to the news. See http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/005/694ulxig.asp > Trix Trains has announced several new products scheduled for release > in 2005. Below is a list of the new items that will be coming from > Trix throughout 2005. Prices will be announced at a later date. > > HO scale locomotives > GG1 electric locomotives. Pennsylvania RR nos. 4935 and 4829. Sound > system (horn, bell, blower fans, air brake release, and electrical > relay); die-cast metal chassis and shell; can motor; articulated > frame; directional headlights; separately applied metal grab irons; > Kadee-compatible couplers, and RP-25 metal wheels. > > HO scale freight cars > Class XM 40-foot boxcars. Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe and > Pennsylvania RR. Die-cast metal floor, detailed trucks, metal grab > irons and handrails, Kadee-compatible couplers, and RP-25 metal > wheels. Sold in three-packs. > > Pennsylvania RR class N5c caboose. Die-cast metal floor, detailed > trucks, metal grab irons and handrails, Kadee-compatible couplers, and > RP-25 metal wheels. Wow! Interesting... The GG1 might be better than BLI, but it is diecast too, so handicapped WRT details as well... Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 15:40:08 -0500 (EST) From: Will Enser Subject: Re: [PRR] how do I change my email address for this list? Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 15:48:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] how do I change my email address for this list? From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Friday, January 28, 2005, at 03:40 PM, Will Enser wrote: > Royce > > Follow the instructions at > > http://lists.dsop.com/prr/ > > first unsubscribe from the old address then subscribe from the new one, Ah, refreshing, somebody actually reads that the last line of every post says "For assistance..." Thank you, Will! ---------------------------------------- Listmaster Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR/NH run through Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 21:05:12 +0000 From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] Branchline Pullmans in Ready To Run Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 15:30:59 -0600 To: PRR-Talk LIST X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Jan 28, 2005, at 1:38 PM, Park Varieties wrote: > Has anyone checked the names being used on the FOM cars to make sure > the actual cars didn't have skirts? The names are Chevy Chase, > Christopher Columbus and George Armistead. > Frank Brua Frank, A quick look at the table at the end of my review in TKM vol 17 will give you 2 of the three, but I seem to have left "CHEVY CHASE" off of the list!! (OOPS). All 3 of these cars appear to not have gotten the "betterment" modifications and so should be fine to use. An alternative source of this information is Tom Madden's incredible Pullman CCR database at: http://www.pullmanproject.com/ BTW, while we all use the slang "FOM" or Fleet of Modernism for the paint on these cars, it is called "PRR Streamline colors" in the CCRs. Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 17:00:42 -0700 From: Sandra & Peter Dawes Subject: [PRR] JOINT NEW HAVEN-PRR PASSENGER TRAINS X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I posted a request for assistance back on January 16 regarding consists = and photos of joint New Haven-Pennsylvania corridor services, but no one = who saw it apparently had any information to offer. Given recent posts asking about through services by trains like the = Colonial, I'm repeating my original message below. It provides some = details on how the two railways cooperated in supplying equipment for = through trains. If anyone can answer my questions, or pass me on to = someone who could, I'd really appreciate it. Peter Dawes =20 ----------------------- I'm looking for some assistance. I'm working on a rail travel project which involves compiling my trips = in the form of a travel log featuring train consists. I've developed = surrogate consists prior to beginning to record them early in 1974 but = have actuals from then on. =20 I made three trips on the Pennsylvania way back in November of 1967: = Wilmington-New York (Colonial, No. 170); New York-Philadelphia = (Afternoon Congressional, No. 153); and Philadelphia-Wilmington (Gulf = Coast Special, No. 141). I've been trying (unsuccessfully so far) to = obtain specific consists, or at least train make-ups, for these trains. I've consulted the Keystone Crossings document, OCTOBER 24, 1964 = PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD CONSISTS. The Boston-Washington section shows = (hope this is correct): COLONIAL: entire consist in both directions PRR including: - one Parlor (29 chairs-1 DR); - one Observation-Parlor-Lounge (14 chairs-25 Lounge seats). SENATOR: mixed, with meal cars alternating (NH Grill; PRR Diner) and = through Coaches split between the two; as well as: - two NH Parlors (36 chairs); - one NH Baggage-Parlor-Lounge-Bar (1 DR, 2 Day Roomettes, 14 chairs and = 11 Lounge seats) alternating with one PRR Parlor-Lounge-Buffet (6 Double = Bedrooms and unspecified Lounge seats). PATRIOT: through cars all NH, including: - two NH Parlors (36 chairs); - one NH Parlor-Lounge-Bar (3 DR, 2 Day Roomettes, 28 Lounge seats). Now to 1967. I have PRR's Oct. 29/67 Washington-Philadelphia-Boston = timetable. In the "Passenger Equipment" listing, the notation "Bar = Lounge, Day Roomettes, and Drawing Room" appears for the Colonial, = Senator and Patriot, in both directions (i.e., all Boston-Washington day = trains). This suggests that, by 1967, New Haven Parlors were operating = on all of these trains, probably supplemented by PRR Parlors of various = types on at least some. Does anyone on this list know where I could obtain specific November of = 1967 consists for the trains I took? Or train make-ups equivalent to = those in the 1964 Keystone document? Additionally, I'm having a difficult time finding action photographs of = the Afternoon Congressional and/or Colonial in the last years of the = PRR. Do you know where I might be able to obtain one or two? (I would = of course provide full credit and pay for any associated costs and = reasonable fees.) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 22:49:39 -0700 From: Sandra & Peter Dawes Subject: Fw: [PRR] JOINT NEW HAVEN-PRR PASSENGER TRAINS X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Thanks for the suggestions, Fred. I have good information on the equipment assigned to these trains. What = I'm looking for is train make-up information especially for No. 170 the = Colonial, Washington-New York, late 1967, just before Penn Central came = into being. Thanks to Keystone Crossings, I have access to the OCTOBER 24 1964 = PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD CONSISTS. I guess what I really need is the fall = 1967 version. Does anyone have it? If so, I'd be interested in the = Colonial entries - also those for the Afternoon Congressional and Gulf = Coast Special. Of course, actual consists for this period would be even better, and I'm = looking for one or two good photos of Colonial and Afternoon = Congressional of the same, PRR period. Can anyone assist? Peter ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Fred in Vt.=20 To: Sandra & Peter Dawes=20 Sent: January 28, 2005 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] JOINT NEW HAVEN-PRR PASSENGER TRAINS Peter, First things first, what years are you looking to find info = about? This will determine the range of answers we can supply. PRR had = specially=20 built sets by Budd for the Congressional and Senator in the mid 1950's. = A=20 good source of pix is the PRR Society book by Blardone & Tilp: PRR = Passenger=20 Car Painting and Lettering; also two books from Liljestrand & Sweetland: = Pass. Equip. of the PRR--Vol #1--coaches, and the PRR Parlor Cars. These = will give you fair representations. As for the heavyweight era, there are more places to search, = and=20 the books get $$$. The Congressional Service goes back to the first steel Pullmans, and = some=20 wood cars as well. A valuable resource for the Pullman Co. is Tom = Maddens=20 web site: pullmanproject.home.att.net/ ; it has most everything found listed, in sections. It is downloadable to=20 disc, and I recommend it for future research. Another source could be the NH Society web site [ can't remember = it---try through: www.nmra.com; and look for golden age listing in left=20 column.[ it's a long way down the page] Further research at:=20 http://prr.railfan.net/passenger/GSPEAR/GSPEAR/prrNotes.htm ; this site = has=20 class listing and diagrams. Hope this helps with your quest, you can always post back if you need = help. Fred Freitas/ Pres New England Chapter/ PRRT&HS ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Sandra & Peter Dawes" To: Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 7:00 PM Subject: [PRR] JOINT NEW HAVEN-PRR PASSENGER TRAINS >I posted a request for assistance back on January 16 regarding consists = and=20 >photos of joint New Haven-Pennsylvania corridor services, but no one = who=20 >saw it apparently had any information to offer. > > Given recent posts asking about through services by trains like the=20 > Colonial, I'm repeating my original message below. It provides some=20 > details on how the two railways cooperated in supplying equipment for=20 > through trains. If anyone can answer my questions, or pass me on to=20 > someone who could, I'd really appreciate it. > > Peter Dawes > > ----------------------- > > I'm looking for some assistance. > > I'm working on a rail travel project which involves compiling my trips = in=20 > the form of a travel log featuring train consists. I've developed=20 > surrogate consists prior to beginning to record them early in 1974 but = > have actuals from then on. > > I made three trips on the Pennsylvania way back in November of 1967:=20 > Wilmington-New York (Colonial, No. 170); New York-Philadelphia = (Afternoon=20 > Congressional, No. 153); and Philadelphia-Wilmington (Gulf Coast = Special,=20 > No. 141). I've been trying (unsuccessfully so far) to obtain specific = > consists, or at least train make-ups, for these trains. > > I've consulted the Keystone Crossings document, OCTOBER 24, 1964=20 > PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD CONSISTS. The Boston-Washington section shows = (hope=20 > this is correct): > > COLONIAL: entire consist in both directions PRR including: > - one Parlor (29 chairs-1 DR); > - one Observation-Parlor-Lounge (14 chairs-25 Lounge seats). > > SENATOR: mixed, with meal cars alternating (NH Grill; PRR Diner) and=20 > through Coaches split between the two; as well as: > - two NH Parlors (36 chairs); > - one NH Baggage-Parlor-Lounge-Bar (1 DR, 2 Day Roomettes, 14 chairs = and=20 > 11 Lounge seats) alternating with one PRR Parlor-Lounge-Buffet (6 = Double=20 > Bedrooms and unspecified Lounge seats). > > PATRIOT: through cars all NH, including: > - two NH Parlors (36 chairs); > - one NH Parlor-Lounge-Bar (3 DR, 2 Day Roomettes, 28 Lounge seats). > > Now to 1967. I have PRR's Oct. 29/67 Washington-Philadelphia-Boston=20 > timetable. In the "Passenger Equipment" listing, the notation "Bar=20 > Lounge, Day Roomettes, and Drawing Room" appears for the Colonial, = Senator=20 > and Patriot, in both directions (i.e., all Boston-Washington day = trains).=20 > This suggests that, by 1967, New Haven Parlors were operating on all = of=20 > these trains, probably supplemented by PRR Parlors of various types on = at=20 > least some. > > Does anyone on this list know where I could obtain specific November = of=20 > 1967 consists for the trains I took? Or train make-ups equivalent to=20 > those in the 1964 Keystone document? > > Additionally, I'm having a difficult time finding action photographs = of=20 > the Afternoon Congressional and/or Colonial in the last years of the = PRR.=20 > Do you know where I might be able to obtain one or two? (I would of=20 > course provide full credit and pay for any associated costs and = reasonable=20 > fees.) > > > = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. >=20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 07:30:53 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: Lines West Buildings X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 1/28/2005 3:28:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, JEKBarker@msn.com writes: Dear Rick, Thank you for your including me in the loop. Please advise the others that Mountaineer Precision Products currently has three buildings for sale. They are: 1) Station Class "A" circa 1887, 16 x 40 feet; 2) Tool House, board and batten, fancy trim, tracing 8140, 1899, first class, German siding, 12 feet 4 inches by 16 feet 4 inches; and 3) Watch Box, 1887, 6 feet by 6 feet, vertical and slanted tongue and groove siding. Note that the station and watch boxes do not appear to have tracing numbers. As of January 19, 2005, the station costs under $50.00; the Watch Boxes (packs of 3) costs under $20.00 and the First Class Secion House costs about $15.00 per. In a word, Andy's work is superb. Andy Lester is owner of Mountaineer Precision Products, http://www.mpp-models.com/, and the address is 6166 Ridgewood Ct., Florence, KY 41042. These easily assembled kits can be hyper detailed by using Lines West photos in such books as The Pennsylvania Railroad in Cincinnati, by Tipton and Blardone, pages 19, 23, 32, and 99, just for openers. [Right in your own back yard! Ha!] Very best regards, Jon Thanks, Jon. To all my listmates not aware of these buildings, my friend Rev. Jon Barker and his associates in Cincinnati researched these Lines West structures in prodigious detail, and provided Andy Lester with the info to create the kits. Judging from the PRRT&HS modelers' display at a recent NMRA show in Cincinnati, they build up nicely -- and, as Jon points out, beg to be finished with the detail and colors of a specific prototype building of their classes. Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Lines West Buildings Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 08:17:57 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Listers, For thsoe in the Chesapeake Bay watershed, it has come to=20 my attention that MPP models will be attending the GSMTS=20 in Timonium on the 5th, and 6th of February. I'm already=20 planning on purchasing some of thier fine kits. For more=20 information on the show please visit www.gsmts.com te link=20 to MPP Models is below. Regards, John York, PA Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Western Maryland,=20 and Maryland & Pennsylvania. RickTipton@aol.com wrote: Mountaineer Precision Products currently has three >buildings for sale. They=20 > are: 1) Station Class "A" circa 1887, 16 x 40 feet; 2)=20 >Tool House, board and=20 > batten, fancy trim, tracing 8140, 1899, first class,=20 >German siding, 12 feet 4=20 > inches by 16 feet 4 inches; and 3) Watch Box, 1887, 6=20 >feet by 6 feet, vertical=20 > and slanted tongue and groove siding. Note that the=20 >station and watch boxes do=20 > not appear to have tracing numbers. As of January 19,=20 >2005, the station=20 > costs under $50.00; the Watch Boxes (packs of 3) costs=20 >under $20.00 and the First=20 > Class Secion House costs about $15.00 per. >=20 > In a word, Andy's work is superb. Andy Lester is owner=20 >of Mountaineer=20 > Precision Products, http://www.mpp-models.com/, and the=20 >address is 6166 Ridgewood=20 > Ct., Florence, KY 41042. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 07:30:53 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: Lines West Buildings In a message dated 1/28/2005 3:28:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, JEKBarker@msn.com writes: Dear Rick, Thank you for your including me in the loop. Please advise the others that Mountaineer Precision Products currently has three buildings for sale. They are: 1) Station Class "A" circa 1887, 16 x 40 feet; 2) Tool House, board and batten, fancy trim, tracing 8140, 1899, first class, German siding, 12 feet 4 inches by 16 feet 4 inches; and 3) Watch Box, 1887, 6 feet by 6 feet, vertical and slanted tongue and groove siding. Note that the station and watch boxes do not appear to have tracing numbers. As of January 19, 2005, the station costs under $50.00; the Watch Boxes (packs of 3) costs under $20.00 and the First Class Secion House costs about $15.00 per. In a word, Andy's work is superb. Andy Lester is owner of Mountaineer Precision Products, http://www.mpp-models.com/, and the address is 6166 Ridgewood Ct., Florence, KY 41042. These easily assembled kits can be hyper detailed by using Lines West photos in such books as The Pennsylvania Railroad in Cincinnati, by Tipton and Blardone, pages 19, 23, 32, and 99, just for openers. [Right in your own back yard! Ha!] Very best regards, Jon Thanks, Jon. To all my listmates not aware of these buildings, my friend Rev. Jon Barker and his associates in Cincinnati researched these Lines West structures in prodigious detail, and provided Andy Lester with the info to create the kits. Judging from the PRRT&HS modelers' display at a recent NMRA show in Cincinnati, they build up nicely -- and, as Jon points out, beg to be finished with the detail and colors of a specific prototype building of their classes. Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/EpW3eD/3MnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 16:58:55 -0500 From: Jerry Jordak Subject: [PRR] Special loads in employee timetables Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi all, Most of my PRR and PC employee timetables have a section titled "Engines and Special Load Restrictions," section 1160-A1. There is a chart listing various tracks, followed by five columns titled "class of engines" numbered 1-5, and four more columns titled "special loads" with letters L, M, I, and J. These columns then have letters or numbers in them to designate if/how these locomotives or cars are restricted in operating on the listed tracks. The numbered columns for "class of engines" list different classes of locomotives in each column, so a train crew can tell if their locomotive could operate on a given section of track. However, the "special loads" sections have no other description in them other than the letters. What I'm wondering is: what kind of special loads do L, M, I, and J stand for? Thanks, Jerry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI T-1 Question Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 20:46:25 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-reply-to: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcUD74j4GFzfStlmQTuMNnT+UUS/9gCfDbwQ Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Ted, One phenomenon I have seen with BLI and other locos with nickel plated drivers, is the tendency to get slippery with use. I have had engines which would barely make it over my club's 2.5%+ grades, slipping its drivers as it went, and fifteen minutes late , as it came around the second time to the same grade, with the same train, it could not make it over the hill at all! The reason was that the slipping on the first attempt polished the drivers, lowering their coefficient of friction so that they slipped even more the next time. Once we started down this slippery slope (pun intended) things just get worse. If the engine is put away for a week or two, the tires on the loco will oxidize enough to give them some "bite" and the loco can again handle they train it initially took over the hill. The question then is, did you overload the suspect T1 and let its drivers slip, eventually removing cars to the length of train you knew its sister T1s could pull. If so, all the driver slipping probably polished the drivers and reduced its tractive effort to less than that of the T1s which had never polished their drivers. We all need to lobby BLI to offer traction tired drivers as an after-market upgrade for their original locos, such as the T1, the M1, and the GG1. Their traction tired locos such as the J1 and K4 seem to have no practical limit to their pulling capacity! I just talked to the BLI rep at the Springfield show this afternoon, and while it is not high on their priority list, they did acknowledge think about the idea. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Ted Andrews Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 4:34 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] BLI T-1 Question PRR Listers: I have sent the following question into BLI regarding a potentially defective T-1: Over a period of time, I have acquired 3 of your PRR T-1's. Two operate flawlessly and can pull very long trains. The third one, the un-numbered one, slips its drivers noticably under the exact same load. By comparing its performance to my other 2 T-1's, there is a conspicuous difference. My layout has grades (1.35%) but my other 2 T-1's go up the grades effortlessly. What do you think is wrong with my 3rd T-1? I have emailed BLI but they have not responded. Have any of you had similar problems with your BLI T-1's Thanks in advance! Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 21:16:53 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Spriing field show MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com List, Anyone attend the show and get any feel for what BLI has in mind for their next PRR release?....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] BLI T-1 question Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 20:29:53 -0600 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I have actually had considerable success with the M1 adding about 3-4 = ounces of weight in the front of the boiler. And my T1 will take about 12 = weighted cars up a curving1.5% grade without benefit of traction tires. And this = on a grade where track was "Flitzed", i.e. , had traction cut in half. = OTOH, I am not even sure what the limit is on my traction-tire equipped J1. It = walks up the 2.5% curving grade with 20 cars so easily I don't know what the = real capacity is. There is also a lot of room in the J boiler for more = weight! Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Andy Miller" > We all need to lobby BLI to offer traction tired drivers as an after-market > upgrade for their original locos, such as the T1, the M1, and the GG1. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Trix announces PRR GG1, boxcar, N5c cabin in HO Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 22:03:16 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-reply-to: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcUFecCTjE3rr/f1Rqq+s2iNbDidvwA/WjtA Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com More info at: http://www.rocousa.com/Trix2005newitems.htm They also have photos on their Marklin page of the Marklin GG1. Looks like the G is 395 Euros, the 3 car boxcar set is 80 Euros, and the N5c is 30. What's a Euro worth now? About $1.30? That's a $500 + GG1! - Ouch! It looks like the box car set is one Merchandise Service, one shadow keystone, and one plain keystone. It's a curious mixture of eras. Did the plain keystone and the MS ever co-exist? regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Smith Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 3:33 PM To: prrths_modeling_committee@yahoogroups.com; PRR-TALK talk; PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com Subject: [PRR] Trix announces PRR GG1, boxcar, N5c cabin in HO Folks, Chris Chaney alerted me to the news. See http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/005/694ulxig.asp > Trix Trains has announced several new products scheduled for release > in 2005. Below is a list of the new items that will be coming from > Trix throughout 2005. Prices will be announced at a later date. > > HO scale locomotives > GG1 electric locomotives. Pennsylvania RR nos. 4935 and 4829. Sound > system (horn, bell, blower fans, air brake release, and electrical > relay); die-cast metal chassis and shell; can motor; articulated > frame; directional headlights; separately applied metal grab irons; > Kadee-compatible couplers, and RP-25 metal wheels. > > HO scale freight cars > Class XM 40-foot boxcars. Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe and > Pennsylvania RR. Die-cast metal floor, detailed trucks, metal grab > irons and handrails, Kadee-compatible couplers, and RP-25 metal > wheels. Sold in three-packs. > > Pennsylvania RR class N5c caboose. Die-cast metal floor, detailed > trucks, metal grab irons and handrails, Kadee-compatible couplers, and > RP-25 metal wheels. Wow! Interesting... The GG1 might be better than BLI, but it is diecast too, so handicapped WRT details as well... Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI T-1 question Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 22:28:32 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-reply-to: <002b01c50673$94fcfa60$6401a8c0@userrtilb5vp8t> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcUGdDCGLVThjC0TT52o5ujwv7erFgAB3XCQ Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Bob, Curiously I added weight to my M1 in the firebox behind the motor. I did that because the center of gravity of the original model was slightly forward of the center driver, so I wanted the weight to be aft. I use my T1 in mail and express service and it can handle about 12-13 cars (B60b baggage cars, BM70m RPOs, x29 express cars, R50b express reefers, etc) up our 2.5% grades. But I would like it to do better. With its traction tires, my J1 does not break into a sweat until I exceed 50 freight cars up that grade! I am hesitant to add more weight to a traction tired BLI loco. One can "safe weight" a loco by assuring that its drivers slip when the engine is held back. That protects the $30 can motor. But what protects the $200 QSI receiver from an overload?? regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bob Zoeller Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 9:30 PM To: PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] BLI T-1 question I have actually had considerable success with the M1 adding about 3-4 ounces of weight in the front of the boiler. And my T1 will take about 12 weighted cars up a curving1.5% grade without benefit of traction tires. And this on a grade where track was "Flitzed", i.e. , had traction cut in half. OTOH, I am not even sure what the limit is on my traction-tire equipped J1. It walks up the 2.5% curving grade with 20 cars so easily I don't know what the real capacity is. There is also a lot of room in the J boiler for more weight! Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Miller" > We all need to lobby BLI to offer traction tired drivers as an after-market > upgrade for their original locos, such as the T1, the M1, and the GG1. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 22:35:19 -0600 (CST) Subject: RE: [PRR] Trix announces PRR GG1, boxcar, N5c cabin in HO From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com > More info at: > http://www.rocousa.com/Trix2005newitems.htm > > They also have photos on their Marklin page of the Marklin GG1. Looks > like > the G is 395 Euros, the 3 car boxcar set is 80 Euros, and the N5c is 30. > What's a Euro worth now? About $1.30? That's a $500 + GG1! - Ouch! > > It looks like the box car set is one Merchandise Service, one shadow > keystone, and one plain keystone. It's a curious mixture of eras. Did the > plain keystone and the MS ever co-exist? Yeah, well, I'm not too sure I'd worry too much, since they are releasing the SAME car in AT&SF, meaning that it is likely their UP boxcar and completely useless for us. Regards Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:37:29 -0500 From: Godfrey Hall Subject: Re: [PRR] Trix announces PRR GG1, boxcar, N5c cabin in HO X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Andy Miller wrote: >They also have photos on their Marklin page of the Marklin GG1. Looks like >the G is 395 Euros, the 3 car boxcar set is 80 Euros, and the N5c is 30. >What's a Euro worth now? About $1.30? That's a $500 + GG1! - Ouch! > > > >SATURDAY Jan 29...............$514.73 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Trix announces PRR GG1, boxcar, N5c cabin in HO Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 00:05:29 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Well, the painting diagrams certainly didn't co-exist. But some of the X29bs that got the 1947 Merchandise Service scheme shown survived (rusted and faded, sans Steins load retainers) in the original paint scheme into the 60's, if I remember my photographs correctly. Of course, as Bruce mentioned, that doesn't look like an X29b. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Miller" > It looks like the box car set is one Merchandise Service, one shadow > keystone, and one plain keystone. It's a curious mixture of eras. Did the > plain keystone and the MS ever co-exist? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI T-1 Question Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 00:07:47 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Its been so long I forgot I put some weight back there, too. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Miller" > Curiously I added weight to my M1 in the firebox behind the motor. I did > that because the center of gravity of the original model was slightly > forward of the center driver, so I wanted the weight to be aft. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] Trix announces PRR GG1, boxcar, N5c cabin in HO Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:21:25 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: <001701c50691$b41b9be0$6401a8c0@userrtilb5vp8t> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Andy Miller asked: "It looks like the box car set is one Merchandise Service, one shadow keystone, and one plain keystone. It's a curious mixture of eras. Did the plain keystone and the MS ever co-exist?" Bob Zoeller responded: "Well, the painting diagrams certainly didn't co-exist." Definitely not for PK. The final Merchandise Service paint scheme (MS3) was put into effect May 1954 to conform with the change to Shadow Keystone and was essentially SK1b with a white band. Photos for only two cars with this scheme have come to light - PRR 504087, Class X29 (2 photos in different locations), and PRR 37080, Class X40B. "But some of the X29bs that got the 1947 Merchandise Service scheme shown survived (rusted and faded, sans Steins load retainers) in the original paint scheme into the 60's, if I remember my photographs correctly." True, and not only Class X29B - the latest shot I could find was a January 1963 Paul Winters shot of PRR 118600, Class X41B in a faded MS1. See my article in the October 2004 TKM for more information on the Merchnadise Service boxcars. http://www.prrths.com/Keystone%20Modeler/TKM_Images/Keystone_Modeler_NO15_fi les/TKM%20No.%2015%2010-04%20PDF.pdf Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Atlas GP-7 question Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:03:08 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com PRR Listers: I recently purchased the new Atlas GP-& in PRR No. 8800. I am thinking = of getting converting this engine to passenger service. I will need to = add a steam generator to this unit which would basically involve added = 3-4 items such as vents, etc. to the top of the short hood as well as an = additional tank nozzle on below the side sill for the water tank.=20 Does anyone sell these detail parts or is it something that I will need = to scratch build? Another quick question. These new Atlas units are equipped with LED's = for the head lights. I just put in an Atlas decoder however, only one of = the two lamps work. Does it make a difference on which wires are = attached to the decoder since it is a LED? TIA=20 Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI T-1 Question Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:12:06 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Andy and Bob: I have noticed that too that engines will get more "slippery" has they = are run. I believe that you are right regarding the drivers getting more = polished as the wear; the coefficient of friction would most likely be = effected.=20 I am going to put my sick T-1 on the bench today. I will remove the = plates on the underside to determine if all of the axle springs are = there ( if some were missing, that would effect tractive effort). While = I am at it, I will replace the blind drivers with the flanged ones. I = hope that by doing this, the extra flanges will in turn increase = friction and hence tractive effort. After all, one on my 1.35% grades is = found on two curves (38 inch radius) I will let you know the results. Ted=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andy Miller=20 To: 'Ted Andrews' ; = prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 8:46 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI T-1 Question Ted, One phenomenon I have seen with BLI and other locos with nickel plated drivers, is the tendency to get slippery with use. I have had engines = which would barely make it over my club's 2.5%+ grades, slipping its drivers = as it went, and fifteen minutes late , as it came around the second time to = the same grade, with the same train, it could not make it over the hill at = all! The reason was that the slipping on the first attempt polished the = drivers, lowering their coefficient of friction so that they slipped even more = the next time. Once we started down this slippery slope (pun intended) = things just get worse. If the engine is put away for a week or two, the = tires on the loco will oxidize enough to give them some "bite" and the loco can = again handle they train it initially took over the hill. The question then is, did you overload the suspect T1 and let its = drivers slip, eventually removing cars to the length of train you knew its = sister T1s could pull. If so, all the driver slipping probably polished the drivers and reduced its tractive effort to less than that of the T1s = which had never polished their drivers. We all need to lobby BLI to offer traction tired drivers as an = after-market upgrade for their original locos, such as the T1, the M1, and the GG1. Their traction tired locos such as the J1 and K4 seem to have no = practical limit to their pulling capacity! I just talked to the BLI rep at the Springfield show this afternoon, and while it is not high on their = priority list, they did acknowledge think about the idea. regards, =20 Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com = [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Ted Andrews Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 4:34 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] BLI T-1 Question PRR Listers: I have sent the following question into BLI regarding a potentially defective T-1: Over a period of time, I have acquired 3 of your PRR T-1's. Two = operate flawlessly and can pull very long trains. The third one, the = un-numbered one, slips its drivers noticably under the exact same load. By = comparing its performance to my other 2 T-1's, there is a conspicuous difference. My layout has grades (1.35%) but my other 2 T-1's go up the grades effortlessly. What do you think is wrong with my 3rd T-1? I have emailed BLI but they have not responded. Have any of you had = similar problems with your BLI T-1's Thanks in advance! Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit = http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRTRAINS@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:33:14 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Spriing field show X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I was there yesterday and talked to I think his name was Tim. He did mention the possibility of a antiquated but did not say what. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] Atlas GP-7 question Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:11:15 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Ted Andrews asked: "I recently purchased the new Atlas GP-& in PRR No. 8800. I am thinking of getting converting this engine to passenger service. I will need to add a steam generator to this unit which would basically involve added 3-4 items such as vents, etc. to the top of the short hood as well as an additional tank nozzle on below the side sill for the water tank. Does anyone sell these detail parts or is it something that I will need to scratch build?" Details West #118 will give you the short hood details. http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/235-118 Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:47:12 -0500 From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." Subject: [PRR] Re: Lines West Buildings Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I'm confused (not necessarily an unusual condition for me, I admit) after reading the following and then going to Mountaineer website to look these gems over. > Mountaineer Precision Products currently has three buildings for > sale. They are: 1) Station Class "A" circa 1887, 16 x 40 feet; 2) Tool > House, board and batten, fancy trim, tracing 8140, 1899, first class, > German siding, 12 feet 4 inches by 16 feet 4 inches; and 3) Watch Box, > 1887, 6 feet by 6 feet, vertical and slanted tongue and groove siding. > Note that the station and watch boxes do not appear to have tracing > numbers. As of January 19, 2005, the station costs under $50.00; the > Watch Boxes (packs of 3) costs under $20.00 and the First Class Secion > House costs about $15.00 per. > Rev. Jon Barker and his associates in Cincinnati researched these Lines > West structures in prodigious detail, and provided Andy Lester with the > info to create the kits. Judging from the PRRT&HS modelers' display at > a recent NMRA show in Cincinnati, they build up nicely -- and, as Jon > points out, beg to be finished with the detail and colors of a specific > prototype building of their classes. > > Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky According to the captions witht the photos of the built-up kits on the MPP website, these are B&O prototypes (I may be assuming incorrectly in the case of the station). Am I wrong? Thanks, Vagel Keller Pittsburgh, PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Re: [PRR] Atlas GP-7 question Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:32:12 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.81, clamav-milter version 0.81b on net.bluemoon.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Ted, I had this same headlight problem with when I installed a decoder a new Atlas C40-8. I switched the LED leads and the lights worked fine. Brian J Carlson P.E. Cheektowaga NY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Andrews" To: "PRR Talk" Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 10:03 AM Subject: [PRR] Atlas GP-7 question PRR Listers: I recently purchased the new Atlas GP-& in PRR No. 8800. I am thinking of getting converting this engine to passenger service. I will need to add a steam generator to this unit which would basically involve added 3-4 items such as vents, etc. to the top of the short hood as well as an additional tank nozzle on below the side sill for the water tank. Does anyone sell these detail parts or is it something that I will need to scratch build? Another quick question. These new Atlas units are equipped with LED's for the head lights. I just put in an Atlas decoder however, only one of the two lamps work. Does it make a difference on which wires are attached to the decoder since it is a LED? TIA Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:48:58 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Lines West Buildings X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Vagel inquires: According to the captions with the photos of the built-up kits on the MPP website, these are B&O prototypes (I may be assuming incorrectly in the case of the station). Am I wrong? Thanks, Vagel Keller Pittsburgh, PA Vagel, In my wishes to help promote Mountaineer in my column (...at the Interchange ) I sent a very similar message to Rick Tipton and he told me that the structures he has mentioned ARE NOT listed on the website. So the post is confusing but has it's merits as apparently the structures are quite nicely done. But I am afraid that a buyer might not have the same comfort level buying sight unseen... Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "TCJ Riggs" Subject: [PRR] K4s use in 1954 Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:11:39 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com All, I noticed in Jerry's roster of motive power that in March 1954 the Pittsburgh Division, my focus, still had quite a number of K4s. With the Alco RS-3 being used for commuter service and the intercity trains all dieselized by then, does anyone know the usual use(s) of the K4s engines? (When I was a boy, my father told me a story of seeing a disabled E8 being brought in with its passenger consist by a K4s, but that would have been rare.) BTW, I also noticed on the typed roster of the period that the F3's were already listed as class EH-15 by then (and the hyphen is in the typed list). Tom Riggs, Clearwater, Florida ----- Original Message ----- From: "Benjamin Hom" To: Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 3:21 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] Trix announces PRR GG1, boxcar, N5c cabin in HO > Andy Miller asked: > "It looks like the box car set is one Merchandise Service, one shadow > keystone, and one plain keystone. It's a curious mixture of eras. Did the > plain keystone and the MS ever co-exist?" > > Bob Zoeller responded: > "Well, the painting diagrams certainly didn't co-exist." > > Definitely not for PK. The final Merchandise Service paint scheme (MS3) was > put into effect May 1954 to conform with the change to Shadow Keystone and > was essentially SK1b with a white band. Photos for only two cars with this > scheme have come to light - PRR 504087, Class X29 (2 photos in different > locations), and PRR 37080, Class X40B. > > > "But some of the X29bs that got the 1947 Merchandise Service scheme shown > survived (rusted and faded, sans Steins load retainers) in the original > paint scheme into the 60's, if I remember my photographs correctly." > > True, and not only Class X29B - the latest shot I could find was a January > 1963 Paul Winters shot of PRR 118600, Class X41B in a faded MS1. > > See my article in the October 2004 TKM for more information on the > Merchnadise Service boxcars. > http://www.prrths.com/Keystone%20Modeler/TKM_Images/Keystone_Modeler_NO15_fi > les/TKM%20No.%2015%2010-04%20PDF.pdf > > > Ben Hom > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] K4s use in 1954 Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 18:54:24 -0500 To: "TCJ Riggs" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Jan 30, 2005, at 3:11 PM, TCJ Riggs wrote: > BTW, I also noticed on the typed roster of the period that the F3's > were > already listed as class EH-15 by then (and the hyphen is in the typed > list). Don't misunderstand the classification... The F3's in normal freight service were class EF15. They were stationed out of Enola, but ran to Pittsburgh. Many were bought specifically for helper service and were classed EH15. These ran on the east slope -- Pittsburgh territory -- and were thus in the MP229 as being assigned to the Pittsburgh Division. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Laser Horizons Passenger Car Sides Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:15:09 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Many times the subject has come up about using Laser Horizons (or other) passenger car sides. Paul Dolkos has authored a well-photographed article on using passenger car sides in the March issue of Model Railroader. The article will continue in April. The article features an Erie-Lackawanna car he built using an ECW core kit and Laser Horizons sides purchased through Merchandise Service. It looks excellent, and demonstrates the quality of the LH sides, including curved skirts!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRTRAINS@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:36:02 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Spriing field show X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Articulated ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Amherst Show Report Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:43:14 -0500 To: PRR-N-Scale X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Heard from an N scaler attending the Amherst show that Walthers intends to go heavily into the N scale rolling stock market starting in 2006. His interests were modern, so no "Pennsy appropriate" details were learned. Was anyone else there who may have learned what rolling stock they are most likely to do in N? The heavyweight Pullman line is probably a given, but what about the R50b and the B60b? They previously said nadda on the R50b, but the HO version has done very well and even advanced to additional paint schemes, so maybe they have rethought that. Anyone hearing anything? They do plan to port their modular building parts to N next... followed by a very large structure series. Great news! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI T-1 Question Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 21:33:31 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Ted, I used the flanged drivers on one of the driver sets. It increased the drawbar pull. regards, Andy Miller _____ From: Ted Andrews [mailto:Ted_Andrews@msn.com] Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 10:12 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com; Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI T-1 Question Andy and Bob: I have noticed that too that engines will get more "slippery" has they are run. I believe that you are right regarding the drivers getting more polished as the wear; the coefficient of friction would most likely be effected. I am going to put my sick T-1 on the bench today. I will remove the plates on the underside to determine if all of the axle springs are there ( if some were missing, that would effect tractive effort). While I am at it, I will replace the blind drivers with the flanged ones. I hope that by doing this, the extra flanges will in turn increase friction and hence tractive effort. After all, one on my 1.35% grades is found on two curves (38 inch radius) I will let you know the results. Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: Andy Miller To: 'Ted Andrews' ; prr-talk@dsop.com Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 8:46 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI T-1 Question Ted, One phenomenon I have seen with BLI and other locos with nickel plated drivers, is the tendency to get slippery with use. I have had engines which would barely make it over my club's 2.5%+ grades, slipping its drivers as it went, and fifteen minutes late , as it came around the second time to the same grade, with the same train, it could not make it over the hill at all! The reason was that the slipping on the first attempt polished the drivers, lowering their coefficient of friction so that they slipped even more the next time. Once we started down this slippery slope (pun intended) things just get worse. If the engine is put away for a week or two, the tires on the loco will oxidize enough to give them some "bite" and the loco can again handle they train it initially took over the hill. The question then is, did you overload the suspect T1 and let its drivers slip, eventually removing cars to the length of train you knew its sister T1s could pull. If so, all the driver slipping probably polished the drivers and reduced its tractive effort to less than that of the T1s which had never polished their drivers. We all need to lobby BLI to offer traction tired drivers as an after-market upgrade for their original locos, such as the T1, the M1, and the GG1. Their traction tired locos such as the J1 and K4 seem to have no practical limit to their pulling capacity! I just talked to the BLI rep at the Springfield show this afternoon, and while it is not high on their priority list, they did acknowledge think about the idea. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Ted Andrews Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 4:34 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] BLI T-1 Question PRR Listers: I have sent the following question into BLI regarding a potentially defective T-1: Over a period of time, I have acquired 3 of your PRR T-1's. Two operate flawlessly and can pull very long trains. The third one, the un-numbered one, slips its drivers noticably under the exact same load. By comparing its performance to my other 2 T-1's, there is a conspicuous difference. My layout has grades (1.35%) but my other 2 T-1's go up the grades effortlessly. What do you think is wrong with my 3rd T-1? I have emailed BLI but they have not responded. Have any of you had similar problems with your BLI T-1's Thanks in advance! Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: [PRR] Springfield news Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 22:00:28 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-reply-to: <27635-41FD1772-473@storefull-3117.bay.webtv.net> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcUG8CYJlLqKR0ILSuKPsi+u1UuokQAUJd4Q Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I was talking to Steve Funero at Springfield and he mentioned the an X29b was in the works for this year!! Regards, Andy Miller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 21:05:07 -0600 From: Morgan Bilbo Subject: Re: [PRR] K4s use in 1954 [now F3's] X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Jerry@Pennsy wrote: > On Jan 30, 2005, at 3:11 PM, TCJ Riggs wrote: > >> BTW, I also noticed on the typed roster of the period that the F3's >> were already listed as class EH-15 by then (and the hyphen is in the >> typed list). > > Don't misunderstand the classification... > > The F3's in normal freight service were class EF15. They were > stationed out of Enola, but ran to Pittsburgh. > > Many were bought specifically for helper service and were classed > EH15. These ran on the east slope -- Pittsburgh territory -- and were > thus in the MP229 as being assigned to the Pittsburgh Division. May I jump in with a quick comment. As I recall (I'm too lazy to get the books out. LOL ), but weren't the EF's geared differently than the EH's because of the "intended use"? i.e. EF's geared for Freight service, hence higher speeds, less pulling power. EH's geared for Helper service, hence lower speeds, more pulling power. Similar to what they sell Pick Up Trucks today for. Change the rear-end gear ratio. Etc. So, if the EF15 was changed to EH15, did they actually change out the gears? Sounds like an unnecessary expense, Huh? Maybe someone with more knowledge can clarify this. I sincerely doubt the PRR would spend that kind of money to "change" the locos. More likely, just bought them for what the intended purpose was. Finally, a minor point. From what I can gather, the hyphen was not used by PRR, but by others. Or maybe used in some divisions of the PRR? Morgan Bilbo, PRRTHS #1204 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI T-1 Question Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 22:40:16 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Andy: I just ran my T-1 with the flanged drivers added. It seemed to run = better. However, I will have more time tomorrow evening to test with = heavier trains. It would make sense that it would increase the drawbar = pull.=20 Have you ever tried to add weight in your T-1's? I did take the boiler = top off and it looks like one could add weight on the inside roof of the = boiler just over the drivers. However, if I do that I will need to cover = the long circuit board with electrical tape to eliminate potential = shorts. Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andy Miller=20 To: 'Ted Andrews' ; = prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 9:33 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI T-1 Question Ted, =20 I used the flanged drivers on one of the driver sets. It increased = the drawbar pull. =20 regards, =20 Andy Miller =20 _____ =20 From: Ted Andrews [mailto:Ted_Andrews@msn.com]=20 Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 10:12 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com; Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI T-1 Question Andy and Bob: =20 I have noticed that too that engines will get more "slippery" has they = are run. I believe that you are right regarding the drivers getting more polished as the wear; the coefficient of friction would most likely be effected.=20 =20 I am going to put my sick T-1 on the bench today. I will remove the = plates on the underside to determine if all of the axle springs are there ( = if some were missing, that would effect tractive effort). While I am at it, I = will replace the blind drivers with the flanged ones. I hope that by doing = this, the extra flanges will in turn increase friction and hence tractive = effort. After all, one on my 1.35% grades is found on two curves (38 inch = radius) =20 I will let you know the results. =20 Ted=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andy > = Miller=20 To: 'Ted Andrews' = > ; = prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 8:46 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI T-1 Question Ted, One phenomenon I have seen with BLI and other locos with nickel plated drivers, is the tendency to get slippery with use. I have had engines = which would barely make it over my club's 2.5%+ grades, slipping its drivers = as it went, and fifteen minutes late , as it came around the second time to = the same grade, with the same train, it could not make it over the hill at = all! The reason was that the slipping on the first attempt polished the = drivers, lowering their coefficient of friction so that they slipped even more = the next time. Once we started down this slippery slope (pun intended) = things just get worse. If the engine is put away for a week or two, the = tires on the loco will oxidize enough to give them some "bite" and the loco can = again handle they train it initially took over the hill. The question then is, did you overload the suspect T1 and let its = drivers slip, eventually removing cars to the length of train you knew its = sister T1s could pull. If so, all the driver slipping probably polished the drivers and reduced its tractive effort to less than that of the T1s = which had never polished their drivers. We all need to lobby BLI to offer traction tired drivers as an = after-market upgrade for their original locos, such as the T1, the M1, and the GG1. Their traction tired locos such as the J1 and K4 seem to have no = practical limit to their pulling capacity! I just talked to the BLI rep at the Springfield show this afternoon, and while it is not high on their = priority list, they did acknowledge think about the idea. regards, =20 Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com = [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Ted Andrews Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 4:34 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] BLI T-1 Question PRR Listers: I have sent the following question into BLI regarding a potentially defective T-1: Over a period of time, I have acquired 3 of your PRR T-1's. Two = operate flawlessly and can pull very long trains. The third one, the = un-numbered one, slips its drivers noticably under the exact same load. By = comparing its performance to my other 2 T-1's, there is a conspicuous difference. My layout has grades (1.35%) but my other 2 T-1's go up the grades effortlessly. What do you think is wrong with my 3rd T-1? I have emailed BLI but they have not responded. Have any of you had = similar problems with your BLI T-1's Thanks in advance! Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit = http://lists.dsop.com. = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit = http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] K4s use in 1954 [now F3's] Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 00:32:54 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at paonline.com Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com All, First point: all these questions are answered in the F-unit article in the Fall 2004 Keystone. Glad to see all these issues have been cleared up...... - no F's were ever converted into helper units (EH-15), all 20 A-B-A sets were purchased as such, be it F3 or F7 models. Most EH-15 were later converted to non-helper geared units either EF-15 or EF-15a. -top speed for a helper unit was 50 mph, a road unit was 65 mph -the EH-15 were not used exclusively in helper service, they were also used in slower speed freight service (often mineral service) - this is in keeping with the description of the classification given in the form 109 H = "Freight with lower speed gearing, primarily for helper service". Photos of "helpers" pulling trains appear in the article. -The PRR DID use the hyphens in the Diesel locomotive classes, although one does find in correspondence and files places where they occasionally omitted them. The policy of the Keystone is to omit them to simplify things and cut down on space required in roster tables etc.: well intentioned, but may cause more confusion to the readers than it remedies. Jack Consoli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Morgan Bilbo" To: Cc: "Jerry@Pennsy" ; "TCJ Riggs" Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 10:05 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] K4s use in 1954 [now F3's] > Jerry@Pennsy wrote: > > > On Jan 30, 2005, at 3:11 PM, TCJ Riggs wrote: > > > >> BTW, I also noticed on the typed roster of the period that the F3's > >> were already listed as class EH-15 by then (and the hyphen is in the > >> typed list). > > > > Don't misunderstand the classification... > > > > The F3's in normal freight service were class EF15. They were > > stationed out of Enola, but ran to Pittsburgh. > > > > Many were bought specifically for helper service and were classed > > EH15. These ran on the east slope -- Pittsburgh territory -- and were > > thus in the MP229 as being assigned to the Pittsburgh Division. > > May I jump in with a quick comment. As I recall (I'm too lazy to get > the books out. LOL ), but weren't the EF's geared differently than the > EH's because of the "intended use"? i.e. EF's geared for Freight > service, hence higher speeds, less pulling power. EH's geared for > Helper service, hence lower speeds, more pulling power. > > Similar to what they sell Pick Up Trucks today for. Change the rear-end > gear ratio. Etc. > > So, if the EF15 was changed to EH15, did they actually change out the > gears? Sounds like an unnecessary expense, Huh? > > Maybe someone with more knowledge can clarify this. I sincerely doubt > the PRR would spend that kind of money to "change" the locos. More > likely, just bought them for what the intended purpose was. > > Finally, a minor point. From what I can gather, the hyphen was not used > by PRR, but by others. Or maybe used in some divisions of the PRR? > > Morgan Bilbo, PRRTHS #1204 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 00:47:59 EST Subject: [PRR] Mountaineer website not updated... X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 1/29/2005 2:57:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, TGREGMRTN writes: Rick your forward says: Dear Rick, Thank you for your including me in the loop. Please advise the others that Mountaineer Precision Products currently has three buildings for sale. They are: 1) Station Class "A" circa 1887, 16 x 40 feet; 2) Tool House, board and batten, fancy trim, tracing 8140, 1899, first class, German siding, 12 feet 4 inches by 16 feet 4 inches; and 3) Watch Box, 1887, 6 feet by 6 feet, vertical and slanted tongue and groove siding. Note that the station and watch boxes do not appear to have tracing numbers. As of January 19, 2005, the station costs under $50.00; the Watch Boxes (packs of 3) costs under $20.00 and the First Class Section House costs about $15.00 per. In a word, Andy's work is superb. Andy Lester is owner of Mountaineer Precision Products, http://www.mpp-models.com/, and the address is 6166 Ridgewood, CT., Florence, KY 41042. These easily assembled kits can be hyper detailed by using Lines West photos in such books as The Pennsylvania Railroad in Cincinnati, by Tipton and Blardone, pages 19, 23, 32, and 99, just for openers. [Right in your own back yard! Ha!] Very best regards, Jon Thanks, Jon. To all my listmates not aware of these buildings, my friend Rev. Jon Barker and his associates in Cincinnati researched these Lines West structures in prodigious detail, and provided Andy Lester with the info to create the kits. Judging from the PRRT&HS modelers' display at a recent NMRA show in Cincinnati, they build up nicely -- and, as Jon points out, beg to be finished with the detail and colors of a specific prototype building of their classes. Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh Rick, I guess I am a bit confused are the correct cross reference numbers 902H for the Winton Station, 903H for the B&O Baggage Bldg., and 904 for the Crossing Gate shanty? The last one is a no-brainer but the way the website reads the B&O baggage shanty is very confusing if in fact it is actually a PRR Tool Shed and the station leads you to believe it is a B&O station as well... I ran into this before and wanted to post it in TKM but I don't want to confuse our folks or make Mountaineer look bad by exposing there poor marketing efforts either. I don't mean to be sarcastic I am just a bit confused. Give me an idea of how I should proceed... Free exposure is a good thing but not if it is confusing to the buyer. Also I would love to see them allow the browser to click on some of the smaller building so you can get a closer look. Greg Martin Hi Greg, I wasn't aware of the disconnect until now... 1. "Mountaineer" lives in the Cincinnati area. He's done various B&O structures for the B&O fans, likewise C&O, and more. Those structures from Winton Place ARE B&O prototypes, and were Cincinnati icons -- in fact, the station was moved to a city park and so still exists. 2. The Pennsy structures are his latest issues -- I've both seen them built up (multiple times) and bought the kits (at a show in Cincinnati) -- and they are recognizably Panhandle types I've seen in the Dayton-Cincinnati area. The watch box kit (which I happen to have right here) is #963HO, and one of the three "crossing shanties" in it is a dead ringer for the ones around Dayton Union Station and at Miami City Junction. The other kits (station and tool shed) are packed away, as the basement is currently undergoing backdrop painting. 3. I heard in the past that his latest items were not on his website -- but honestly thought they were now listed. Since this is not true, I owe everyone an apology for forwarding the website link without checking it -- it's my mistake. The truth is, I've been buried lately, between two volumes for Morning Sun and trying to get the model railroad off the ground (floor?). 4. I'll do another "email-cast" when the website is updated. Again, I apologize for passing along the link without vetting it. Thanks for your interest in the LInes West structure project. Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 00:48:10 EST Subject: [PRR] Bomb cars X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 1/30/2005 5:17:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com writes: Message: 5 Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 17:25:04 EST From: TGREGMRTN@AOL.COM Subject: Re: 500-lb. bombs In a message dated 1/28/2005 6:43:24 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, omnibus@datatamers.com writes: 500-lb. bombs? How were they shipped? (I know -- veerrrry carefully... but in what kind of car? Regular boxcar with racks? Peter Weiglin San Mateo, CA They were shipped in boxcars and during the Viet Nam era they were shipped in the last vestiges of 40 foot boxcars. The High School I attended in Southern California was next to the SP branch line that fed cars to the US Naval Seal Beach Armory which loaded the bombs for shipment overseas. We would see lots of older 40-foot cars going by during PE class and Lunchtime. Bill makes reference to the cars that exploded at SP Roseville yard facilities, well the SP never did find all the bombs but in the recent rebuilding the Union Pacific did... 3^) Greg Martin When the Milwaukee Road won trackage rights into Louisville as a condition of the L&N/Monon merger, we learned another new vocabulary. It seems they referred to one or more number series of old 40' boxcars as "bomb cars", signifying that if they blew up, little was lost. BTW, the Milwaukee switched the US Navy's Crane Ammunition Depot up in darkest Indiana (and train crews on the line were subject to FBI security clearance checks). Before gaining trackage rights to Louisville, they probably interchanged these cars to the Monon at Bedford, or perhaps to the Pennsy Louisville line at Seymour Indiana. With Crane Depot traffic passing through Louisville, plus the output of the Indiana Army Ammunition Plant (operated by Dupont) just across the river north of Jeffersonville IN, it's a wonder Louisville wasn't wiped from the face of the earth several times over. Must be proof that unfused artillery shells are relatively safe in the jolting, bumpy, enviroment of railroading. Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 00:48:10 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Bomb cars In a message dated 1/30/2005 5:17:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com writes: Message: 5 Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 17:25:04 EST From: TGREGMRTN@AOL.COM Subject: Re: 500-lb. bombs In a message dated 1/28/2005 6:43:24 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, omnibus@datatamers.com writes: 500-lb. bombs? How were they shipped? (I know -- veerrrry carefully... but in what kind of car? Regular boxcar with racks? Peter Weiglin San Mateo, CA They were shipped in boxcars and during the Viet Nam era they were shipped in the last vestiges of 40 foot boxcars. The High School I attended in Southern California was next to the SP branch line that fed cars to the US Naval Seal Beach Armory which loaded the bombs for shipment overseas. We would see lots of older 40-foot cars going by during PE class and Lunchtime. Bill makes reference to the cars that exploded at SP Roseville yard facilities, well the SP never did find all the bombs but in the recent rebuilding the Union Pacific did... 3^) Greg Martin When the Milwaukee Road won trackage rights into Louisville as a condition of the L&N/Monon merger, we learned another new vocabulary. It seems they referred to one or more number series of old 40' boxcars as "bomb cars", signifying that if they blew up, little was lost. BTW, the Milwaukee switched the US Navy's Crane Ammunition Depot up in darkest Indiana (and train crews on the line were subject to FBI security clearance checks). Before gaining trackage rights to Louisville, they probably interchanged these cars to the Monon at Bedford, or perhaps to the Pennsy Louisville line at Seymour Indiana. With Crane Depot traffic passing through Louisville, plus the output of the Indiana Army Ammunition Plant (operated by Dupont) just across the river north of Jeffersonville IN, it's a wonder Louisville wasn't wiped from the face of the earth several times over. Must be proof that unfused artillery shells are relatively safe in the jolting, bumpy, enviroment of railroading. Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/EpW3eD/3MnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 00:47:59 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Mountaineer website not updated... In a message dated 1/29/2005 2:57:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, TGREGMRTN writes: Rick your forward says: Dear Rick, Thank you for your including me in the loop. Please advise the others that Mountaineer Precision Products currently has three buildings for sale. They are: 1) Station Class "A" circa 1887, 16 x 40 feet; 2) Tool House, board and batten, fancy trim, tracing 8140, 1899, first class, German siding, 12 feet 4 inches by 16 feet 4 inches; and 3) Watch Box, 1887, 6 feet by 6 feet, vertical and slanted tongue and groove siding. Note that the station and watch boxes do not appear to have tracing numbers. As of January 19, 2005, the station costs under $50.00; the Watch Boxes (packs of 3) costs under $20.00 and the First Class Section House costs about $15.00 per. In a word, Andy's work is superb. Andy Lester is owner of Mountaineer Precision Products, http://www.mpp-models.com/, and the address is 6166 Ridgewood, CT., Florence, KY 41042. These easily assembled kits can be hyper detailed by using Lines West photos in such books as The Pennsylvania Railroad in Cincinnati, by Tipton and Blardone, pages 19, 23, 32, and 99, just for openers. [Right in your own back yard! Ha!] Very best regards, Jon Thanks, Jon. To all my listmates not aware of these buildings, my friend Rev. Jon Barker and his associates in Cincinnati researched these Lines West structures in prodigious detail, and provided Andy Lester with the info to create the kits. Judging from the PRRT&HS modelers' display at a recent NMRA show in Cincinnati, they build up nicely -- and, as Jon points out, beg to be finished with the detail and colors of a specific prototype building of their classes. Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh Rick, I guess I am a bit confused are the correct cross reference numbers 902H for the Winton Station, 903H for the B&O Baggage Bldg., and 904 for the Crossing Gate shanty? The last one is a no-brainer but the way the website reads the B&O baggage shanty is very confusing if in fact it is actually a PRR Tool Shed and the station leads you to believe it is a B&O station as well... I ran into this before and wanted to post it in TKM but I don't want to confuse our folks or make Mountaineer look bad by exposing there poor marketing efforts either. I don't mean to be sarcastic I am just a bit confused. Give me an idea of how I should proceed... Free exposure is a good thing but not if it is confusing to the buyer. Also I would love to see them allow the browser to click on some of the smaller building so you can get a closer look. Greg Martin Hi Greg, I wasn't aware of the disconnect until now... 1. "Mountaineer" lives in the Cincinnati area. He's done various B&O structures for the B&O fans, likewise C&O, and more. Those structures from Winton Place ARE B&O prototypes, and were Cincinnati icons -- in fact, the station was moved to a city park and so still exists. 2. The Pennsy structures are his latest issues -- I've both seen them built up (multiple times) and bought the kits (at a show in Cincinnati) -- and they are recognizably Panhandle types I've seen in the Dayton-Cincinnati area. The watch box kit (which I happen to have right here) is #963HO, and one of the three "crossing shanties" in it is a dead ringer for the ones around Dayton Union Station and at Miami City Junction. The other kits (station and tool shed) are packed away, as the basement is currently undergoing backdrop painting. 3. I heard in the past that his latest items were not on his website -- but honestly thought they were now listed. Since this is not true, I owe everyone an apology for forwarding the website link without checking it -- it's my mistake. The truth is, I've been buried lately, between two volumes for Morning Sun and trying to get the model railroad off the ground (floor?). 4. I'll do another "email-cast" when the website is updated. Again, I apologize for passing along the link without vetting it. Thanks for your interest in the LInes West structure project. Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Tcy2bD/SOnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-talk@dsop.com, TCJ Riggs From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Hyphens in Classes (was Re: [PRR] K4s use in 1954 [now F3's]) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 06:44:14 -0500 To: Morgan Bilbo X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Jan 30, 2005, at 10:05 PM, Morgan Bilbo wrote: > > Finally, a minor point.=A0 =46rom what I can gather, the hyphen was = not=20 > used by PRR, but by others.=A0 Or maybe used in some divisions of the=20= > PRR? Despite what some people say, the hyphens were used by the PRR... in=20 some places, and without consistency. I have numerous original=20 documents that show hyphens. But the same classes in other documents=20 don't. So either "can" be correct. As a matter of consistent "style", the PRRT&HS, under the guidance of=20 Chuck Blardone, has established that hyphens are not used in Society=20 publications. Having worked as a director of publications myself for=20 many years, I support the concept of a style guide. Hence, I support=20 what the Society does with its own publications. But for people to look at the Society's style manual and then make a=20 blanket statement that the Pennsy didn't use hyphens is historically=20 inaccurate. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Mountaineer website not updated... Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 07:06:20 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Listers, I e-mailed Andy about the non-updated website awhile back=20 and found out he has a yahoo group with pictures and=20 flyers of his current projects. For more info you can=20 check it at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mpp-models/ Regards, John York, PA Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Western Maryland,=20 and Maryland & Pennsylvania. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "TCJ Riggs" Subject: [PRR] K4s use in 1954 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 07:21:20 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Let me try again, simply--how were the K4s units used on the Pittsburgh Division in early 1954? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 07:54:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] K4s use in 1954 From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Monday, January 31, 2005, at 07:21 AM, TCJ Riggs wrote: > Let me try again, simply--how were the K4s units used on the Pittsburgh > Division in early 1954? Unless someone can come up with dated photos or official assignments from the Pittsburgh offices, conjecture is probably the best you can do. I can tell you that by September 1954 the K4's were no longer assigned to passenger trains heading west out of Harrisburg. And the E units assigned typically ran the distance to their western terminus, I believe. My SWAG is that in Pittsburgh, in 1954, K4's would have been used in commuter service and as protection for main line passenger service (in the event of an E unit failure). ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 05:52:48 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Daniels Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] Bomb cars From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: Hyphens in Classes (was Re: [PRR] K4s use in 1954 [now F3's]) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 08:18:01 -0600 To: PRR-Talk LIST X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Jan 31, 2005, at 5:44 AM, Jerry @ Pennsy wrote: > On Jan 30, 2005, at 10:05 PM, Morgan Bilbo wrote: >> >> Finally, a minor point.=A0 =46rom what I can gather, the hyphen was = not=20 >> used by PRR, but by others.=A0 Or maybe used in some divisions of the=20= >> PRR? > > Despite what some people say, the hyphens were used by the PRR... in=20= > some places, and without consistency. I have numerous original=20 > documents that show hyphens. But the same classes in other documents=20= > don't. So either "can" be correct. Some rules of thumb can be applied, although as Jerry indicates, they=20 weren't always used... The MP229 from 1944 and 1957 are great=20 examples. Here are the "rules" from these documents: 1) Steam locomotive classes were not hyphenated 2) Electric Locomotive classes up to E-44 were not hyphenated 3) pre WII Diesel classes were not hyphenated (e.g. A6b), except=20 perhaps the pre-war EMD purchase. 4) post WWII diesel classes were hyphenated 5) gas-electric/oil-electric classes were not hyphenated 6) sub-classes (a, b, etc) were typed in lower case. Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin=20 Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] Re: Springfield news Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 09:42:28 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 In-reply-to: Thread-index: AcUHR0AieN3591hkQ36FRVKcLe0Z0QAW1TIA Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Ben, Dick has had some very serious health issues and it has impacted his business. F&C apparently have already made the cars for Central Hobbies a few years ago, Central just never advertised them since they sold out their entire allotment to their regular customers. As I understand it, the arrangement with Central is now over and F&C is free to sell the kits under their own name. I think we may really see them this year. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: benjaminfrank_hom [mailto:b.hom@att.net] Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 10:42 PM To: PRR@yahoogroups.com Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: Springfield news Andy Miller wrote: "I was talking to Steve Funaro at Springfield and he mentioned an X29b was in the works for this year!!" That's what Dick Schweiger said about the C&BT X29B - five years ago. And he had test shots already done. I'll believe it when I see it. Ben Hom ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Rcy2bD/UOnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 11:28:27 -0500 From: dave pierson Subject: Signaling..... [PRR] New Haven on the PRR Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com >The NH motors wouldn't have had cab signals, right? So they couldn't lead a >PRR train. > > Some were modified with ATS(?) to suit the tunnel signaling to Penn Station. >Anyone know when the NH installed cab signals in their electrified >territory? > > > My snap answer is 'never', however there were expeiments with an 'automated EMU set' in the mid 50s, so there was some, at least.... best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: John Cooper , John Peters , "'PRR-Talk'" , ndbprr@att.net, Benjamin Hom From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: Signaling..... [PRR] New Haven on the PRR Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 10:40:56 -0600 To: davep@quik.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Jan 31, 2005, at 10:28 AM, dave pierson wrote: > >> The NH motors wouldn't have had cab signals, right? So they couldn't >> lead a >> PRR train. >> > Some were modified with ATS(?) to suit the tunnel signaling to > Penn Station. Since Dave looks like he is looking for clarification ... ATS stands for Automatic Train Stop ATS serves to stop the train if a restricting signal is passed without acknowledgment and reduction of speed. ATS is not the same as "cab signals". Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: amato@mchsi.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Bomb cars Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 20:15:56 +0000 From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Bomb cars Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:43:45 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com There was also an ordnance factory in Scranton, adjacent to the Lackawanna Yard (now Steamtown). I understand they made explosives, such as artillery shells. Don't really know, or whether they made bombs. The building is still there, fenced off, and active. Don't really know whether it's an ordnance munitions factory these days or what. Can anyone help? Bill Bigler ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Bomb cars > Neat post! The Ordnance Works at South Danville (on the Wilkes-Barre branch) > will be a major "industry" on my layout. I'm just starting to lay out the > track arrangement. > > I have yet to determine what was made at/shipped from at South Danville, but > this info is a great overview of high explosive shipments! > > Frank > > > > In a message dated 1/28/2005 6:43:24 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > > omnibus@datatamers.com writes: > > > > 500-lb. bombs? How were they shipped? > > > > (I know -- veerrrry carefully... but in what kind of car? Regular boxcar > > with > > racks? > > > > Peter Weiglin > > San Mateo, CA > > They were shipped in boxcars and during the Viet Nam era they were shipped > > in the last vestiges of 40 foot boxcars. The High School I attended in > > Southern California was next to the SP branch line that fed cars to the US > > Naval > > Seal Beach Armory which loaded the bombs for shipment overseas. We would > > see > > lots of older 40-foot cars going by during PE class and Lunchtime. > > > > Bill makes reference to the cars that exploded at SP Roseville yard > > > facilities, well the SP never did find all the bombs but in the recent > > rebuilding the > > Union Pacific did... 3^) > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:54:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Bomb cars From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Monday, January 31, 2005, at 03:43 PM, William Bigler wrote: > There was also an ordnance factory in I apologize, I haven't been following this whole thread, but there was a bomb factory in Harrisburg... part of the Harrisburg Steel complex. I picked up the site blueprints, etc., on eBay a few years back. The bomb-making part of the complex sat right behind where the passenger steam/diesel facility was until the 1980's when it was razed. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 18:41:47 EST Subject: [PRR] Formatting of classes/styles of railfan English X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 1/31/2005 1:14:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, Jack Consoli writes (in part): -The PRR DID use the hyphens in the Diesel locomotive classes, although one does find in correspondence and files places where they occasionally omitted them. The policy of the Keystone is to omit them to simplify things and cut down on space required in roster tables etc.: well intentioned, but may cause more confusion to the readers than it remedies. Jack Consoli Since omitting the hypens on Pennsy classes IS Keystone (e.g. Chuck Blardone) policy, I have adopted the practice of omitting hyphens on PRR classes and injecting them into EMD model numbers (see our The Pennsylvania Railroad in Cincinnati). Thus, an EH15 is an F-3, etc. This rattles enough cages to be fun. On the same note (rattling cages), I seem to have rotten luck in convincing others that the short name for American Locomotive Company is Alco or ALCO, but not "ALCo." A lot of this really depends on what you're used to. As a kid, I was heavily conditioned by reading the editorial standards of the time in Trains and Model Railroader, and by contrast tend to look askance at the loosey-goosey usages of present-day rail writers and editors. Then several years ago, I spent considerable time auctioning the late Jack Fravert's collection of builder plates, which for example included a goodly number of Alco plates -- none of which said "ALCo," BTW. Probably the best advice is to decide what you like in terms of style and formatting, and then be consistent in your own writing (which makes you more readable). If we're too crabby about the fine points, no one will write to us but the "literary" types. Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 19:19:33 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Formatting of classes/styles of railfan English Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I help with the editing of Diesel Era magazine and Withers Publishing books, and our style is to try to stick as closely as possible to what the manufacturer preferred. Alco units are RS-3s and C-425s, while EMDs are F7s and GP40s. The only observation I can make is that, while some of these model designations seem to be open to variation and interpretation in usage, nobody ever seems to want to add more hyphens to GE model names -- U25B is always U25B, never U25-B, U-25B, or U-25-B, and C30-7 is always C30-7, never C-30-7. Regarding PRR, it's certainly true, as numerous people have already noted, that the railroad was inconsistent in usage, as it's possible to find in primary documents both EF15 and EF-15. Sorting out the minutiae of PRR diesel class nomenclature makes it hard to escape this conclusion: These guys were so used to the PRR itself defining the nature, size, look, and rating of motive power -- steam and electric locomotives -- by designing, testing, and building it, that they seemed to be unable to deal with manufacturers' model names imposed from outside. A diesel unit did not exist on the PRR unless and until the PRR assigned it a PRR-anointed model name. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!!