Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2005 00:17:16 +1100 From: "Mick Molloy" Subject: [PRR] Happy New Year Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 12:43:51 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: ealauterbach@earthlink.net Subject: [PRR] For Sale O and HO X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I have the following for sale: 1. Westside HO scale M1a. This engine is unpainted and has only a little run time. I removed the front end appliances with the idea of modifying her into a M1b. I have not put these back on, but I will send ship them with the engine! I also will include a correct generator for behind the stack. The original one is grossly oversized. Original box in good condition. Price: $225 2. MTH Railking K4 with PS1 #1361 and set of 6 Raiking Madison passenger cars. These have been shelf queens, so little run time. I did test the engine, and both the engine and sound work fine. All original boxes included. Price: $300 3. MTH Railking Pennsy S2 Turbine with PS1. This is not the small Lionel "bantham" version, but rather the larger Railking Version. Very little run time, she has also been a shelf queen. Original box included. Price $200. Please contact me off list if interested or if you have any questions. Thanks, Eric Lauterbach 770-596-1866 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 09:05:52 -0500 From: WARDJEFFE@cs.com Subject: [PRR] prr freight train symbols. Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com was there a system as to how the pennsy determined freight train symbols, specificly in the 1960s? i would like to use plausable symbols for trains originating on my layout. also how were the local freight symbols determined? thanks jeffery s ward sr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] prr freight train symbols. Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 10:14:48 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hello Jeff: I am doing an article for the Keystone on train operations in the 1965 = so I have done some research on train symbols. My article is based on = the Fort Wayne Division in Indiana so emphasis is given to train symbols = on the western end of the roadroad. The Pennsy had a fragmented and inconsistent system of naming freights. = This is one area where the Standard Railroad of the World, wasn't. From = what I can tell, the Pennsy had 5 basic categories where freight symbols = could fall under: The first train symbols are Commodity-based. Trains like "TT-1" (an = intermodal Truc-Train), "LCL-1" (Less than CarLoad), "FW-8" (Feed Water = livestock), "NF-6" (Non - Feed water livestock) were all named based on = the commodites that they hauled. However, one cannot tell what the = origin and destination of these trains are just by looking at the = symbols The second train symbols were Origin-Destination based. Trains like CB-1 = / CB-2 were Chicago to Boston and CG-2 was Chicago to Greenville. Note = with these train symbols, one can determine the origin and destination = but cannot determine what the train is hauling.=20 The third category are "semi-destination" train symbols. Westbound = trains like WC-5 stood for "Western Connection" trains. Likewise "SWC-1" = trains on the Panhandle were heading for the "SouthWestern Connection". = These trains did not go all of the way to the coast but rather = interchanged with railroads in Chicago and St. Louis that did. Also, one = cannot tell from the symbol on the EXACT origin and destination of the = train. The fourth category were "divisional" trains. These were typically = locals however, the names were not consistent with other divisions. The = Ft. Wayne Division locals were named FW-13, FW 24, etc. Please note that = this is in conflict with the FW-8 live stock train mentioned above. In a = neighboring division, the Logansport Division trains were named with a = "LD-" prefix; I read somewhere that LD stood for "Logansport Dispatch." The last category is "Other". These are trains symbols like GRE-2, CS-8, = AST-1, 2 and AC-1,2, and 4 in which it is not clear on how they got = their names. The symbols apparently stand for something but so far, no = one has uncovered the meaning. I do know that the "AC" trains ran from = PRR and the CB&Q. I believe that the AC trains began in 1960-61 and by = 1965, AC-4 was added. Also, the WC-1 and especially WC-5 trains did have = allot of blocks for the Santa Fe.=20 And were are talking only about the mid-1960's!!! Pick up a number of = ETT's a few years apart and you will see an alphabet soup of train = symbols that come and go as quickly as the sun sets. I hope that this sheds some like on this interesting subject. On Jerry = Britton's web site, he has a few links to Pennsy train symbols; Mark = Bej's "The Broad Way" site is the most extensive for schedules in = 1959-60. Randy Williamson has a great site too; he is adding onto it and = it is getting more and more detailed. His era is in the late 1950's. Please ask if you have any questions.=20 Ted Andrews ----- Original Message -----=20 From: WARDJEFFE@cs.com=20 To: "PRR-Talk"=20 Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 9:05 AM Subject: [PRR] prr freight train symbols. was there a system as to how the pennsy determined freight train = symbols, specificly in the 1960s? i would like to use plausable symbols = for trains originating on my layout. also how were the local freight = symbols determined? thanks jeffery s ward sr = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit = http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Hough " Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 19:12:31 -0600 Subject: [PRR] New PRR Photos From: MLiebeskin@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 11:45:58 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/03/05 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Ken, Just finished watching uoy pictures. Very nice. Happy New Year. cordially, John Liebeskind ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 14:41:20 EST Subject: [PRR] Pass. Diesels X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Did the Pennsy utilize ALCO RS-3 or EMD GP-7 diesels in passenger service? If so, would they have been used on the Schuylkill Br. through Reading, Pa? Believe pass. service through Reading was abolished in the mid 50's. Many thanks, Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] BLI PRR K7 Question Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:17:18 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Jerry and fellow PRR listers: How many numbers has BLI released for this car? I know that there is a = 4-car set but are they have 2 or 3 versions of the 4-car set with = different numbers? I would like to get a number of these since I will be = modeling train FW-8, Man-O-War!! Ted Andrews ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Pass. Diesels Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 14:58:19 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Evan, Actually they used both. I know the Alco RS3's were=20 classed AS16ms, check the Withers book for assignments.=20 RS3's had an extra stack right behind the cab on the=20 shorthood end for the steam machinery. Ditto on the GP7's=20 for the Witehrs book. -John RDG2124@aol.com wrote: > Did the Pennsy utilize ALCO RS-3 or EMD GP-7 diesels in=20 >passenger service? =20 > If so, would they have been used on the Schuylkill Br.=20 >through Reading, Pa? =20 > Believe pass. service through Reading was abolished in=20 >the mid 50's. >=20 > Many thanks, >=20 > Evan Leisey > RCT&HS 346 > PRRT&HS 7487 > PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 > CNJ 2003 >=20 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit=20 >http://lists.dsop.com. >=20 York, PA Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Western Maryland,=20 and Maryalnd & Pennsylvania. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pass. Diesels Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:24:50 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Evan: The answer for both engines is yes. The GP-7's were primarily used on = commuter service in Chicago while the RS-3's were used in commuter = service in Pittsburgh. The Chic. Terminal Div. did a couple of RS-3's is = steam generators. Once in a while, these engines were used in commuter = service but the GP-7's were favored due to their better acceleration. If you have the Withers books on the Alco and EMD 1st generation hood = units, there is more detail on how and where these engines were used. If = you don't have them, let me know and I will look them up for you. Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RDG2124@aol.com=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 2:41 PM Subject: [PRR] Pass. Diesels Did the Pennsy utilize ALCO RS-3 or EMD GP-7 diesels in passenger = service? =20 If so, would they have been used on the Schuylkill Br. through = Reading, Pa? =20 Believe pass. service through Reading was abolished in the mid 50's. Many thanks, Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit = http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:03:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI PRR K7 Question From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Monday, January 3, 2005, at 03:17 PM, Ted Andrews wrote: > How many numbers has BLI released for this car? I know that there is a > 4-car set but are they have 2 or 3 versions of the 4-car set with > different numbers? I would like to get a number of these since I will > be modeling train FW-8, Man-O-War!! My dealer shipment contained numerous four-car sets. Each set was the same four numbers, leading me to believe they have only released four numbers. Besides, had they released more, it would have been very much in their best interest to say so, so as to increase sales. I would expect -- perhaps I shouldn't -- that the two cars with sound (due later this year) will have two additional numbers and will not duplicate those in the four pack. I, too, need to model FW-8. At least you HO guys have a Pennsy K7a option!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:13:14 -0500 From: "Richard Poole" Subject: [PRR] Accurate G-31c or e Number Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:18:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Pass. Diesels From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com \On Monday, January 3, 2005, at 03:24 PM, Ted Andrews wrote: > The answer for both engines is yes. The GP-7's were primarily used on > commuter service in Chicago while the RS-3's were used in commuter > service in Pittsburgh. The Chic. Terminal Div. did a couple of RS-3's > is steam generators. Once in a while, these engines were used in > commuter service but the GP-7's were favored due to their better > acceleration. There were also five GP7's used for passenger train helper service on the East Slope. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:18:38 EST Subject: [PRR] Early Diesel Period & Huntingdon, PA X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I am looking for information on what diesel locomotives to use on my layout with nothing after 1949. Perhaps someone can steer me to a web site with that information. I am modeling a layout focused on Huntingdon, PA in the Middle Division. I intend to have lots of staging to keep the main line busy while the nitty gritty operation will be the Huntingdon and Broad Top Mountain Railroad and Coal Company. I intend to try to duplicate Huntingdon from just east of the Depot and some of the yard just past Hunt Tower. Thanks Harold R. McGee Gainesville, FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI PRR K7 Question Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:24:52 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcTx0IKckVFbwiqGQTaax8uJM7CmswAAXjAQ In-reply-to: <988C12EE-5DC2-11D9-946B-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Now we need a K8 option! I've been kitbashing the old TM stock car as a stand-in. But it's a lot of work and still not right. I sure would like the "real" thing. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Britton Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 3:04 PM To: Ted Andrews Cc: PRR Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI PRR K7 Question . . . I, too, need to model FW-8. At least you HO guys have a Pennsy K7a option!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:30:51 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Early Diesel Period & Huntingdon, PA From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Monday, January 3, 2005, at 03:18 PM, Hal6963@aol.com wrote: > I am looking for information on what diesel locomotives to use on my > layout > with nothing after 1949. Perhaps someone can steer me to a web site > with that > information. This page on Keystone Crossings lists the first year each locomotive model appeared on the Pennsy... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/motiveops/diesel_xref.html However, the listings of available models is WAY out of date!!! > > I am modeling a layout focused on Huntingdon, PA in the Middle > Division. I > intend to have lots of staging to keep the main line busy while the > nitty > gritty operation will be the Huntingdon and Broad Top Mountain > Railroad and Coal > Company. Now, just because a locomotive was present on the Pennsy doesn't mean it was present on the Middle Division. How accurate do you want to get? What you want to look at next is the MP229, which lists what locomotives were assigned to what divisions. The "General Information" section at the top of this page... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/motiveops/ ...offers several, but not one for 1949. There must be one somewhere!!! There are MP229's linked there from 1944 (way too early), 1954 (considerably too late), and 1957 (really late). But they will at least give you a feel for what the MP229 offers. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Accurate G-31c or e Number Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:33:55 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcTx0biO0E7JEkXFSuCfrzAijG/SOQAAaB+Q In-reply-to: <200501031513.AA534380862@PAnetwork.com> Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com G31C 371200 to 371949 750 cars G31D 375750 to 376949 1200 cars G31E 376950 to 377449 500 cars regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Richard Poole Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 3:13 PM To: PRR TALK Subject: [PRR] Accurate G-31c or e Number Gentlemen, Can anyone give me the series of correct numbers for PRR's G-31c or G-31e Gondolas? If series is broken up within several blocks of numbers, then one good number for each class will do nicely. THANKS!! I just finished a 1 1/2" scale model of this gondola and want to put a good number on it. THANKS Again!! -- DICK POOLE -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Accurate G31c or e Number Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 20:36:18 +0000 Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 14:43:18 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI PRR K7 Question and Cocoa Beach From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com > On Monday, January 3, 2005, at 03:17 PM, Ted Andrews wrote: > >> How many numbers has BLI released for this car? I know that there is a >> 4-car set but are they have 2 or 3 versions of the 4-car set with >> different numbers? I would like to get a number of these since I will >> be modeling train FW-8, Man-O-War!! > > My dealer shipment contained numerous four-car sets. Each set was the > same four numbers, leading me to believe they have only released four > numbers. Besides, had they released more, it would have been very much > in their best interest to say so, so as to increase sales. Yep, just one set of numbers for the 4 pack. BLI is still somewhat clueless... remember, the 4 pack w/o sound was only available because we (PRR modelers) clamored for them! Noe, send your emails to BLI and ask for another 2 or 3 number sets, and while your at it, ask for good trucks and a STANDARD bolster so at the least you can swap their crappyt trucks for the nice Bowser truck. BTW, I'll have one of mine done up nicely (except for the trucks) for Prototype Rails in Cocoa Beach this coming weekend. Hope I see some of y'all there!! Regards Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Broadway Limited K7A stock car Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:54:23 -0500 Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 16:03:45 -0500 From: Zak Subject: Fw: [PRR] Pass. Diesels From: "Zak" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pass. Diesels > From: "Ted Andrews" > Subject: Re: [PRR] Pass. Diesels > From: RDG2124@aol.com > Subject: [PRR] Pass. Diesels From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI PRR K7 Question and Cocoa Beach Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 16:05:12 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcTx1ibUYsEmlQgFRuKylot9wZVFXAAAZfPg In-reply-to: <50505.68.221.205.188.1104784998.squirrel@www.vetmed.auburn.edu> Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com BLI does offer a painted undec set of cars, but they don'y specify which color its painted! The PRR color is a good guess, but it's only a guess. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 3:43 PM To: Jerry Britton Cc: PRR Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI PRR K7 Question and Cocoa Beach > On Monday, January 3, 2005, at 03:17 PM, Ted Andrews wrote: > >> How many numbers has BLI released for this car? I know that there is >> a 4-car set but are they have 2 or 3 versions of the 4-car set with >> different numbers? I would like to get a number of these since I will >> be modeling train FW-8, Man-O-War!! > > My dealer shipment contained numerous four-car sets. Each set was the > same four numbers, leading me to believe they have only released four > numbers. Besides, had they released more, it would have been very much > in their best interest to say so, so as to increase sales. Yep, just one set of numbers for the 4 pack. BLI is still somewhat clueless... remember, the 4 pack w/o sound was only available because we (PRR modelers) clamored for them! Noe, send your emails to BLI and ask for another 2 or 3 number sets, and while your at it, ask for good trucks and a STANDARD bolster so at the least you can swap their crappyt trucks for the nice Bowser truck. BTW, I'll have one of mine done up nicely (except for the trucks) for Prototype Rails in Cocoa Beach this coming weekend. Hope I see some of y'all there!! Regards Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Alex Charyna Subject: Re: [PRR] Pass. Diesels Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 16:42:48 -0500 To: prr-talk@dsop.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Evan, From Triumph III (awesome book) West of Reading, passenger service ended in 1941, to Reading regular service lasted to 1951, Sundays until 1953. There's also a picture of G5 #5716... "These stalwart units had the primary responsibility for passenger trains on the division and continued in service west of electrified territory until discontinuation of service in 1953." Another picture shows Atlantic #1600 about to depart Reading for Philly on it's final run in October 1953. "Pennsy Diesels A-6 to EF-36" shows the RS3's as arriving in August 1950, the GP-7's arrived in January 1952. The book also describes the uses of the GP-7's in passenger service, but no mention of the Schuylkill Branch. Based on that, I'd say no GP-7's possibly an RS-3, but definately a G5. Thanks for persuading me to do some research for my own model railroad. :) Hopefully someone else can add... -alex On Jan 3, 2005, at 2:58 PM, John Frantz wrote: > Evan, > > Actually they used both. I know the Alco RS3's were classed AS16ms, > check the Withers book for assignments. RS3's had an extra stack right > behind the cab on the shorthood end for the steam machinery. Ditto on > the GP7's for the Witehrs book. > > -John > > RDG2124@aol.com wrote: >> Did the Pennsy utilize ALCO RS-3 or EMD GP-7 diesels in passenger >> service? If so, would they have been used on the Schuylkill Br. >> through Reading, Pa? Believe pass. service through Reading was >> abolished in the mid 50's. >> Many thanks, >> Evan Leisey >> RCT&HS 346 >> PRRT&HS 7487 >> PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 >> CNJ 2003 >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > York, PA > Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Western Maryland, and > Maryalnd & Pennsylvania. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 19:14:53 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI PRR K7 Question X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 1/3/2005 3:02:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, Ted_Andrews@msn.com writes: How many numbers has BLI released for this car? I know that there is a 4-car set but are they have 2 or 3 versions of the 4-car set with different numbers? I would like to get a number of these since I will be modeling train FW-8, Man-O-War!! There are a total of 6 numbers -- 4 pack no sound, 1 with hog noise and 1 with cattle noise. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 19:19:07 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI PRR K7 Question and Cocoa Beach X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com The undecs are more like roof brown than the PRR color used on the K7a's. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 21:46:28 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "sjlash" Subject: [PRR] Atlas FM H 16 44 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi Guys, Atlas has announced reservations for the FS16m, the Fairbanks-M= orse H 16 44. Looking at what reference info I have, this looks like the= correct body style for Pennsy. The artwork on the Atlas web site is too= shadowed to tell. Any thoughts from the "experts" would be appreciated.= ( The pair I have now, Spectrum, will probably be set up for the Pgh & W= Virginia) Thanks Jim Lash ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Kgt255@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 21:59:18 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Atlas FM H 16 44 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com ( The pair I have now, Spectrum, will probably be set up for the Pgh & W Virginia) <<>> As are mine, but I don't show 'em off much: the paint's really rough. That end curve on the yellow stripe is a bear. I really wish someone would do an H-20-44 (PRR FS-20 or FS-20m). The P&WV used 'em, and so did the PRR on the Chartiers Branch. I have no evidence that there was ever an FS-16m on the Chartiers Branch. So, I cheat a bit sometimes. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Haines" Subject: [PRR] prr freight train symbols Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 21:59:03 -0800 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com AST-2 was known as the Astronaut. It operated via Logansport and = Columbus. There was also an AST-4 that ran via Ft. Wayne. I don't = recall an AST-1. I think the GR in GRE-2 stood for Grand Rapids. Bill Haines=20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 22:39:36 -0600 (CST) Subject: RE: [PRR] Broadway Limited K7A stock car From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com > > Bruce, > > Is it set up as a double decker or single deck? I know it doesn't have > the > second deck inside but allegedly you can tell from the outside how many > decks a K7 A has. This becomes important if you get one with sound. > > > Chris Chany Chris, Its a double decker. More annoying is the fact that the supports for the second deck are molded into the sides and so you cannot make it a single decker just by removing the inner deck. Regards Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Hough " Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 22:58:58 -0600 Subject: [PRR] More PRR and prototype Photos at Railimages From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 00:05:26 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] prr freight train symbols MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com PRR symbol GR is Grand Rapids. PRR freights GR-6 and 7 operated between Grand Rapids and Cincinnati. Somewhere around here,I have some PRR Enginman's Time Books from the Lines West-Ft. Wayne area with a few of the GR freights. I try to dig them up. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 08:29:54 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: Fw: [PRR] Pass. Diesels Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com FWIW, Easter Shore is ALWAYS capitalized! And horse racing here was harness racing --still is. please send me a copy of the photo. Jim McDaniel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Broadway Limited K7A stock car Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:27:49 -0500 Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:04:37 -0600 (CST) Subject: RE: [PRR] Broadway Limited K7A stock car From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Chris, et al, Yes, double decker is basically for hogs, and can be used for lambs. Cattle would ride on a single decker. In order to convert the BLI K7A to a single decker, you will need to remove the inner deck, and the remove each of the molded in support brackets on the sides as well as the fake edge of the deck. While laborious, this shouldn't be too difficult. In fact, I may get to this before I leave for Cocoa, and if I do, I'll bring an in progress car. Regards Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL > > I assume that means if you get the sound version you have to get the hogs. > Or were cows transported on double deckers? > > Chris Chany > > Bruce Smith wrote: > > Its a double decker. More annoying is the fact that the supports for the > second deck are molded into the sides and so you cannot make it a single > decker just by removing the inner deck. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 15:51:40 -0500 From: "Richard Poole" Subject: [PRR] BALDWIN "SHARK-NOSE" QUESTION From: "John Peters" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pass. Diesels Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 15:27:10 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Used out of Trenton to Camden Locals and GP-7 on Nellie Bly when NY Div engine crews had assignment boomer ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 2:41 PM Subject: [PRR] Pass. Diesels > Did the Pennsy utilize ALCO RS-3 or EMD GP-7 diesels in passenger service? > If so, would they have been used on the Schuylkill Br. through Reading, Pa? > Believe pass. service through Reading was abolished in the mid 50's. > > Many thanks, > > Evan Leisey > RCT&HS 346 > PRRT&HS 7487 > PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 > CNJ 2003 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 17:52:51 -0800 (PST) From: Moose Kunkle Subject: [PRR] Latrobe-Greensburg area (HELP!) From: "Steve Hipes" Subject: [PRR] RE: BAR Geeps on PRR Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 04:55:37 +0000 From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 00:29:02 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: BAR Geeps on PRR X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 46 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 1/4/05 11:09:31 PM, sthipes@hotmail.com writes: >I have heard two different stories regarding PRR's (and later PC and >Conrail) use of Bangor and Aroostock geeps. One story says PRR had partial > >ownership thus the use of the engines over the summer to help with the >heavy >lake mineral traffic while the other simply says PRR leased the units during > >BAR's off season. Are either correct? > ********** I've told the story before. I don't know the terms of use, but in 1965 or 1966, my wife and I went to the wedding of one of her school room mates in Canton, Ohio. Either in Canton or Youngstown, I saw two of the cleanest, prettiest engines I ever saw. Don't know the type, but they were B & A engines, sort of a lavender/purpleish with yellow trim. When I asked about them at the office, I believe I was told they were leased during the summer when they were not needed in Maine to move logs/timber, as they were in winter. Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: BAR Geeps on PRR Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 00:58:11 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at paonline.com Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Steve, While searching through the PRR Letter Agreements of 1900-1967 in the State Archives in Harrisburg, I noted two lease agreements with the BAR for GP7 and GP9 locomotives: #502 dated 3-26-51 to apply to each of the years 1951-1957 was for the BAR to lease 10 1500 HP locos to the PRR to be delivered May 5-15th and returned November 5-15th of each year. Locos to be GP7R or BL2 models. Costs to be $35/day @ up to 132 miles/day.(Cancelled by #572) #572 dated 9-4-58 amending #502 to reduce # of units from 15 to 8 for 1958 & extending this for one year (to 1968). (This was originally an agreement of 5-1-54 to lease 15 units per year through 1967). Locos to be GP7 & GP9. There was more detail, but that was all I noted. Jack Consoli ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Hipes To: Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 11:55 PM Subject: [PRR] RE: BAR Geeps on PRR > I have heard two different stories regarding PRR's (and later PC and > Conrail) use of Bangor and Aroostock geeps. One story says PRR had partial > ownership thus the use of the engines over the summer to help with the heavy > lake mineral traffic while the other simply says PRR leased the units during > BAR's off season. Are either correct? > > Your help is appreciated. > > Regards, > > Steve Hipes > Columbus, Ohio > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: amato@mchsi.com Subject: [PRR] Wilkes-Barre branch towers Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 16:10:57 +0000 Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 12:27:22 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Enola Yard's 100th Anniversary From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <0EE34391-5F3F-11D9-B283-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Two events have been announced to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the Enola Yard, outside of Harrisburg, Pa.: May 14, 2005: Enola Yard Centennial Indoor Railroad Show & Collectors Market - Sponsored by the Historical Society of East Pennsboro. 9 a.m. - 3 p.m. West Enola Fire Hall, 118 Chester Road, Enola, Pa. May 14, 2005: Enola Yard Centennial Festival - Arts & crafts, food, music & kid's activities, fireworks (at 8:30 p.m.). Sponsored by the Historical Society of East Pennsboro. 10 a.m. - 8 p.m. Adams Rici Park, Enola, Pa. Unfortunately (or fortunately) this is the weekend BEFORE the PRRT&HS Annual Meeting in Camp Hill. I am privy to another related event, not on the above dates, that will be announced on March 1. Also, Dan Cupper has a book in the works on the history of the Enola Yards. No ETA yet. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 10:28:14 -0800 Subject: [PRR] PRR Lettering Available From: Greg Ritacco Message-Id: <8FE71C6C-5F47-11D9-848A-000A959FDA52@surewest.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=216.93.194.38 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi, For the last month or so I have been staying out of the cold garage where my workbench is and spending my modeling time on computer based projects. One is that I carefully traced PRR lettering diagrams obtained from the society, to make decals for the P70 and other head end cars I'm working on. Since I went that far, I just compiled the letters into a font I'm calling Pennsy. The UC is the word PENNSYLVANIA, used on early steel passenger cars, numerals are passenger car numerals, and LC is the alphabet in 4" letters, used on U. S. MAIL, ADAMS EXPRESS Etc. I may be fanatical (SPF), but I'm not crazy, so there are no metrics to speak of. I will send you a copy if you want one, all 4 kinds are available. Greg Ritacco ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] diesels in passenger service Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 16:25:24 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/04/05 Thread-Index: AcTyJKDcBBxo3JZaSF+IfN4J/vVWwABSAZkw From: "Drye, John" To: "PRR-Talk" Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Evan asks: Did the Pennsy utilize ALCO RS-3 or EMD GP-7 diesels in passenger = service? =20 If so, would they have been used on the Schuylkill Br. through Reading, = Pa? =20 Believe pass. service through Reading was abolished in the mid 50's. Also used in Passenger service on the Elmira Branch, right at the end, = about 55-56. Great pictures in Caloroso's book on the branch. Although = calling that operation "passenger service" is a bit of a stretch. Often = just the locomotive and one combine. John Drye ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hanel29@att.net Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRRPro] PRR Lettering Available Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 02:56:13 +0000 From: "Ken Hough " Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 21:29:12 -0600 Subject: [PRR] PRR GP7 By Lawrence Line From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg Electrification Room Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 18:52:35 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Listers, Out of sheer curiosity, has anybody ever seen any photos=20 of the inside of the power Directors room on the second=20 floor of the station at Harrisburg? I am aware and have in=20 my collection the pictures taken by the Library of=20 Congress's HABS/HAER records. To see these pictures go this link (HABS/HAER) and so a=20 query for "Harrisburg Station", theyare in the photographs=20 collection. Also, along those lines has anyone seen pictures of where=20 the original passenger subway entrances from the platforms=20 were located? It's obvius from this day in age that they=20 have been covered up, but its another interesting fact. Thanks for any help. Best Regards to all, John York, PA Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Western Maryland,=20 and Maryland & Pennsylvania. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 01:23:49 GMT Subject: [PRR] Passenger Service From: abendschein@comcast.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg Electrification Room Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 01:45:40 +0000 Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 21:07:33 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg Electrification Room Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com John Frantz wrote: > > Also, along those lines has anyone seen pictures of where the original > passenger subway entrances from the platforms were located? It's > obvius from this day in age that they have been covered up, but its > another interesting fact. > Greetings to John, Jerry and the List: They were under the stairways leading from the passenger bridge to the platform, and you can still see the remnants of where the stairwells were (now covered over/filled in). Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 23:29:30 EST Subject: [PRR] RS-3/GP-7 Pass. Units - Thanks X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Many thanks. Once again, more than I had hoped to learn. Now to talk a friend out of his Withers books for the weekend. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: [PRR] BLI K4 Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 10:12:46 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Has anyone found a solution to the BLI K4's "air-ringer" bell? I am finding this sound more and more annoying. regards, Andy Miller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 10:24:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K4 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Andy, annoying in what way? Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K4 Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 10:30:52 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Andy: I don't believe there is a CV that you can change that will alter the cadence of the bell. Isn't the air ringer correct for the K-4? Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Miller" To: ; ; "'PRR Talk'" Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 10:12 AM Subject: [PRR] BLI K4 > Has anyone found a solution to the BLI K4's "air-ringer" bell? I am > finding this sound more and more annoying. > > regards, > > Andy Miller > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI K4 Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 10:39:09 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcT0zkWEvhP3moOFRB+xEyYAb7uzAQAAKXog In-reply-to: <002401c4f4cd$e092b300$d5cca4d8@Office> Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I don't believe any K4's (certainly not the BLI model) ever had an air ringer. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Larry Reynolds Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 10:31 AM To: Andy Miller; PRR@yahoogroups.com; PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com; 'PRR Talk' Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K4 Andy: I don't believe there is a CV that you can change that will alter the cadence of the bell. Isn't the air ringer correct for the K-4? Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Miller" To: ; ; "'PRR Talk'" Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 10:12 AM Subject: [PRR] BLI K4 > Has anyone found a solution to the BLI K4's "air-ringer" bell? I am > finding this sound more and more annoying. > > regards, > > Andy Miller > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 10:52:21 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR-Modeling] RE: [PRR] BLI K4 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Andy,, =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0But the K4s Bell is not a rope pull, it has an air activated motor/piston assembly up inside that moves the clapper, thus the faster rate of clang. Many audio recordings record this. True, when designed, the classic PRR low cradle bells were rope pulls but were soon changed to air pistons. I believe there was also some doccumentaion somewhere that showed an outside piston assembly from an early design as well. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0I think it was Al, Bob Johnson, Bruce and I that had a debate on this subject. We realized that even though the air activated bells of the later era still had the arm for ropes or cable, no one was ever able to come up with a photo that actually showed a rope attached to it. The air prooved to be so reliable......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR-Modeling] RE: [PRR] BLI K4 Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 11:02:26 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcT00Og+hE0q8GwaQhOup+LTaSkifQAAVBWw In-reply-to: <536-41DEB035-10003@storefull-3116.bay.webtv.net> Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Gary, Thank you. I had never heard of this before. Now I have to re-email = BLI and apologize. =20 regards, =20 Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: mittner@webtv.net [mailto:mittner@webtv.net]=20 Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 10:52 AM To: PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com Cc: 'Larry Reynolds'; PRR@yahoogroups.com; PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com; 'PRR Talk' Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR-Modeling] RE: [PRR] BLI K4 Andy,, =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0But the K4s Bell is not a rope pull, it = has an air activated motor/piston assembly up inside that moves the clapper, thus the faster = rate of clang. Many audio recordings record this. True, when designed, the classic PRR low cradle bells were rope pulls but were soon changed to = air pistons. I believe there was also some doccumentaion somewhere that = showed an outside piston assembly from an early design as well.=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0I think it was Al, Bob Johnson, Bruce and I that = had a debate on this subject. We realized that even though the air activated bells of = the later era still had the arm for ropes or cable, no one was ever able to = come up with a photo that actually showed a rope attached to it. The air = prooved to be so reliable......Gary=20 =20 Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->=20 What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Tcy2bD/SOnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~->=20 =20 Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR-Modeling] RE: [PRR] BLI K4 Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 16:08:07 +0000 >From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) >Subject: Re: [PRR-Modeling] RE: [PRR] BLI K4 >Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 10:52:21 -0500 From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 11:27:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR-Modeling] RE: [PRR] BLI K4 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Ted, If I were to hazard a guess, I would estimate sometime in the mid 1920's, if not earlier. Bob Johnson may have better info than I.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 09:25:10 -0800 Subject: [PRR] PRR Lettering From: Greg Ritacco Message-Id: <151D2F1A-60D1-11D9-B789-000A959FDA52@surewest.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=216.93.194.38 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi everyone, There has been a large response to my offer of the Pennsy font. Jerry has very kindly offered to provide space on his site for the font, so I will be moving the project there. I will also make the original EPS files available as well, as most want decals, and EPS is the better way to go. We will post the URL when the font is added. Thanks, Greg ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] Harrisburg Electrification Room Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 11:33:06 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] Harrisburg Electrification Room Thread-Index: AcT0qsy4hMSL0XITQZCmVNpfr+LhGgANBVTQ From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: , "John Frantz" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jan 2005 17:33:06.0175 (UTC) FILETIME=[F28228F0:01C4F4DE] Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Some time ago, the room was open at a PRRT&HS convention held in Camp Hill. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of abendschein@comcast.net Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 7:46 PM To: John Frantz; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg Electrification Room John et al., I had a tour of the Harrisburg Power Director's room on 24 April 1977. =20 At the time the room was not lit as well as it was in the HABS/HAER shots. =20 However, what I remember of it and the photos I did take inside agree well with the HABS/HAER photos. Fred Abendschein > Listers, >=20 > Out of sheer curiosity, has anybody ever seen any photos=20 > of the inside of the power Directors room on the second=20 > floor of the station at Harrisburg? I am aware and have in=20 > my collection the pictures taken by the Library of=20 > Congress's HABS/HAER records. >=20 > To see these pictures go this link (HABS/HAER) and so a=20 > query for "Harrisburg Station", theyare in the photographs=20 > collection. >=20 > Also, along those lines has anyone seen pictures of where=20 > the original passenger subway entrances from the platforms=20 > were located? It's obvius from this day in age that they=20 > have been covered up, but its another interesting fact. >=20 > Thanks for any help. >=20 > Best Regards to all, > John >=20 > York, PA > Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Western Maryland,=20 > and Maryland & Pennsylvania. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. >=20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: [PRR] Air ringer bells (was: BLI K4) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 12:04:06 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcT01rbIoeHK8il2TxClhgzzJyEZNwAA11BA In-reply-to: <537-41DEB85A-8154@storefull-3116.bay.webtv.net> Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Gary, Do you (or anyone else) know what other PRR locos regularly were equipped an with air ringer bell? Returning to my original concern with the BLI model, I notice that the M1, the J1, the T1, and even the GG1 have what sound like rope-pull bells. If the air ringer was such a success on the K4, why were they not installed on later locos? regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Gary Mittner Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 11:27 AM To: Ted Andrews Cc: PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com; pennsyrr@rcn.com; PRR@yahoogroups.com; prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR-Modeling] RE: [PRR] BLI K4 Ted, If I were to hazard a guess, I would estimate sometime in the mid 1920's, if not earlier. Bob Johnson may have better info than I.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 13:30:39 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: Air ringer bells (was: BLI K4) MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Andy, It wasn't just the K4s Bell that was an air ringer, they were all adopted eventually. The low cradle bell was found on C1 E6 G5 H I K L M M1a M1b classes. All were air operated. The A and B class shifters had the pedastal type hanger. Evidence show they were air rung as well. As for the J1 and I believe the GG1, they had no normal hanger/yoke assembly. These were mounted in a hanging position like a K5 Bell but behind the pilots. These were air rung as well, with the same type air motor/clapper assembly where just the clapper swung. As for the speed of the clapper, it may just come down to the amount of air getting into the valve assembly. Maybe they were set at a different presure, maybe they were just sluggish. My K4s Bell when air operated starts working at 60lbs presure. Sounds better at over 100 lbs. My K4s bell maybe sluggush due to ware. My J1 Bell clapper works very well.......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! h=Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:Cc:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=JlzRJ6Dxc364iH4bSXx5OZXqkn7rclOvRr88VDe6npHA3Huj8JOtwIzHNXcgm+7r; h=Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:Cc:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=JlzRJ6Dxc364iH4bSXx5OZXqkn7rclOvRr88VDe6npHA3Huj8JOtwIzHNXcgm+7r; h=Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:Cc:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=JlzRJ6Dxc364iH4bSXx5OZXqkn7rclOvRr88VDe6npHA3Huj8JOtwIzHNXcgm+7r; Message-ID: <00e701c4f4f2$b500d490$cd89aec7@hoxiecomp> Reply-To: "STEPHEN HOXIE" From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" To: "PRR-TALK" Cc: "'Ted Andrews'" , , References: <3851-41DED54F-1865@storefull-3111.bay.webtv.net> Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Air ringer bells (was: BLI K4) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 13:54:30 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 65fbc22f705d6e9971639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94068a24045bc75f78532ce4d44a60e69d5350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 165.121.225.70 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Andy--For HO the only correct bell I have been able to find is Precision Scale 585-3155. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] RE: [PRR] BLI K4 Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 15:04:39 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Gary and Lists, Good estimate - the internal air ringer was made standard on bell arrangement tracing D-79719, drawn 2-12-1926 and issued 2-25-1926 for most classes of steam locomotives with both styles of bell stand. A note on the drawings says "Bell ringer body, clapper and stem through bell and yoke to be purchased from Transportation Devices Corp., Aetna Trust Bldg., Indianapolis." I don't know how rapidly that change occurred. Bob Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Ted Andrews" Cc: ; ; ; Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 11:27 AM Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR-Modeling] RE: [PRR] BLI K4 | | Ted, | | If I were to hazard a guess, I would estimate sometime in the mid | 1920's, if not earlier. Bob Johnson may have better info than I.....Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR-Modeling] Re: [PRR] Re: Air ringer bells (was: BLI K4) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 15:08:34 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcT08vtiKn64rR7KTuyNYaNJftJpdwAAXczQ In-reply-to: <00e701c4f4f2$b500d490$cd89aec7@hoxiecomp> Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Thanx Steve, I just check the Walthers site and its currently not in stock - expected 9 Feb 05. I just may consider ordering some to upgrade all me Bowser locos. They currently have Cal Scale bells. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: STEPHEN HOXIE [mailto:stevehprr@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 2:55 PM To: PRR-TALK Cc: 'Ted Andrews'; PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com; pennsyrr@rcn.com Subject: [PRR-Modeling] Re: [PRR] Re: Air ringer bells (was: BLI K4) Andy--For HO the only correct bell I have been able to find is Precision Scale 585-3155. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Give the gift of life to a sick child. Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's 'Thanks & Giving.' http://us.click.yahoo.com/5iY7fA/6WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/9MtolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR-Modeling/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-Modeling-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! h=Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:Cc:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=OwA1k2kG3f/5CoRcx9z0SSLiyl+WI1C9RKHeXG54RYNoRfyJZa/Kq+6kdK9bmAwM; h=Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:Cc:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=OwA1k2kG3f/5CoRcx9z0SSLiyl+WI1C9RKHeXG54RYNoRfyJZa/Kq+6kdK9bmAwM; h=Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:Cc:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=OwA1k2kG3f/5CoRcx9z0SSLiyl+WI1C9RKHeXG54RYNoRfyJZa/Kq+6kdK9bmAwM; Message-ID: <010601c4f505$22224790$cd89aec7@hoxiecomp> Reply-To: "STEPHEN HOXIE" From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" To: , "'PRR-TALK'" Cc: "'Ted Andrews'" , References: <200501072007.j07K7uM00706@smtp-bedford.mitre.org> Subject: Re: [PRR-Modeling] Re: [PRR] Re: Air ringer bells (was: BLI K4) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 16:05:04 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 65fbc22f705d6e9971639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940a75c58e1e9940ff6d662c9c14fbeb22c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 199.174.135.99 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Andy--Might want to consider ordering direct from PSC. All this bell interest since BLI brought out the M1a/b and the K4 might just use up all the stock. Besides BLI and Bowser, everybody's brass needs this bell, too. Walthers' stock/sell/reorder/wait-for-restock cycle is very extended as it is. And when the I1's hit the market.......... Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Hough " Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 17:15:59 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Branchline sleeper handrails From: "Mark Taylor" Subject: [PRR] Numberboard Numbers Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 21:26:02 -0500 From: "Bill Godby" Subject: [PRR] PRR MoW cars Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 11:33:30 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I recently ran across 2 PRR MoW cars and was wondering if anyone had any = information on them. The one is PRR 492197, it is painted yellow and = looks like it says Track D60. The other one is PRR 490015, Tuscan = Maybe???? I can send scans of these if anyone wants to see them. Thanks, Bill Godby PRRT&HS 7162 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 13:01:10 -0500 From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR MoW cars Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Bill, My list shows 492197 as Dining car D78R #7940 . I have no record of 490015. Where are these cars located? I would like to add them to my list of survivors. Regards, Eddie PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO Bill Godby wrote: > I recently ran across 2 PRR MoW cars and was wondering if anyone had any information on them. The one is PRR 492197, it is painted yellow and looks like it says Track D60. The other one is PRR 490015, Tuscan Maybe???? I can send scans of these if anyone wants to see them. > > Thanks, > Bill Godby PRRT&HS 7162 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 14:13:40 EST Subject: [PRR] Buckeye pronunciation guides? X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 1/6/2005 9:13:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: Message: 1 Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 14:23:17 +0000 From: ernclaw@comcast.net Subject: Re: Scioto Sigh oh toe Ernie Clausing -------------- Original message -------------- > > > And - - - how do you pronounce Scioto? > > Gary E. Heiland > #3242 NCR Chptr > 1. Sigh-oh'-to should be correct, but that's not what I usually heard in Columbus or much of the Scioto River valley. If you are from the southern half of Ohio, it is usually pronounced Sigh-oh'-tah This goes along with the southern Ohio tendency to pronounce with a relieving "ah": Ohio = O-high'-ah, esp. "o-hi'-ah stayt yew-ni-ver'-si-tee" Toledo = Tow-lee'-dah Piqua = Pi-kwah' (never Pik'-way) Please note that this tendency may have disappeared some in the last 30 years, but when I lived in God's country, that's the way it was. 2. Other Buckeyisms: Cadiz = Ka'-diss (never Ka-dizz' like Spain nor Kay'-dizz like Kentucky) Olentangy (a river at Columbus) = Owe-len-tan'-gee Bellefontaine = Bell-fown'-tun Lima = Lye'-ma (Lee'-ma is in the South American country of Peru) Xenia = Zeen'-ya (not Ex-zeen'-ya) Washington = War'shing-tun (as in Warshingtun Court House Route = Rowt (instead of Root) fertilizer = fer-ti-lyz, often without the trailing "r" and soft drinks are "pop". Ask for a soda, and you'll get something with ice cream in it. 3. BTW, I'm always amused at arguments about the correct way to spell American Indian names like Scioto, Chillicothe, Piqua, or Maumee/Miami, since all of these are corruptions of the original tongues in order to Anglicize them. (Same comment for Frenchifications, also). I tried teaching "correct" Buckeye pronunciation of the place names on my layout to my operating group down here in Louisville Kentucky, but it's an uphill battle. Rick Tipton - a southern Ohio native transplanted to Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 14:13:40 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Buckeye pronunciation guides? > Sigh oh toe Ernie Clausing > > And - - - how do you pronounce Scioto? > > Gary E. Heiland > #3242 NCR Chptr > 1. Sigh-oh'-to should be correct, but that's not what I usually heard in Columbus or much of the Scioto River valley. If you are from the southern half of Ohio, it is usually pronounced Sigh-oh'-tah This goes along with the southern Ohio tendency to pronounce with a relieving "ah": Ohio = O-high'-ah, esp. "o-hi'-ah stayt yew-ni-ver'-si-tee" Toledo = Tow-lee'-dah Piqua = Pi-kwah' (never Pik'-way) Please note that this tendency may have disappeared some in the last 30 years, but when I lived in God's country, that's the way it was. 2. Other Buckeyisms: Cadiz = Ka'-diss (never Ka-dizz' like Spain nor Kay'-dizz like Kentucky) Olentangy (a river at Columbus) = Owe-len-tan'-gee Bellefontaine = Bell-fown'-tun Lima = Lye'-ma (Lee'-ma is in the South American country of Peru) Xenia = Zeen'-ya (not Ex-zeen'-ya) Washington = War'shing-tun (as in Warshingtun Court House Route = Rowt (instead of Root) fertilizer = fer-ti-lyz, often without the trailing "r" and soft drinks are "pop". Ask for a soda, and you'll get something with ice cream in it. 3. BTW, I'm always amused at arguments about the correct way to spell American Indian names like Scioto, Chillicothe, Piqua, or Maumee/Miami, since all of these are corruptions of the original tongues in order to Anglicize them. (Same comment for Frenchifications, also). I tried teaching "correct" Buckeye pronunciation of the place names on my layout to my operating group down here in Louisville Kentucky, but it's an uphill battle. Rick Tipton - a southern Ohio native transplanted to Louisville Kentucky Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and PRR Lines West of Pittsburgh ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/EpW3eD/3MnJAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 12:18:36 -0800 Subject: [PRR] PRR Passenger Cars From: Greg Ritacco Message-Id: <7A2DE5DE-61B2-11D9-BC28-000A959FDA52@surewest.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=216.93.194.38 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Good Afternoon, I have two questions for the group. As a continuance of a previous thread, what was the lettering on MS60 cars that actually were converted B60 cars? My Pass. Eqp. Reg. shows MS60 cars with different car numbers than B60's and Rob's site has a FP for MS60's, stanchions added. The other question was whether P70's were ever lettered for Pennsylvania Lines. Thank you. Greg Ritacco ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 20:50:37 -0500 From: Bob Malberti Subject: [PRR] PRR gas-electric motor cars Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 00:05:29 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: ealauterbach@earthlink.net Subject: [PRR] Classic Metal Works Tractor Trailer X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com The new Classic Metal Works Tractor Trailers for the late steam era are coming out and I am wondering if any of the ones offered actually were seen in and around the Pennsy area. I think someone mention them a while back on the list. Walthers now has them list as in in their new product section. Thanks, Eric ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Fw: [PRR] Classic Metal Works Tractor Trailer Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 02:59:30 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/655/Fri Jan 7 08:54:13 2005 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.bluemoon.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com My dealer had a few today, Mid-States, Cooper-Jarrett, and Chicago Express, Hennis. I know they are also marketing PIE, and Roadway. I have also seen trailers of the first 3 I listed on Pennsy trailer trains. As for seeing them on roads, I guess that would depend on what locale you are interested in. FYI a neat trucking site that may be of interest to some Pennsy modelers can be found at http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/ click on the truck pictures link at the top of the page. Brian J Carlson P.E. Cheektowaga NY ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 12:05 AM > Subject: [PRR] Classic Metal Works Tractor Trailer > > > > The new Classic Metal Works Tractor Trailers for the late steam era are > coming out and I am wondering if any of the ones offered actually were seen > in and around the Pennsy area. I think someone mention them a while back on > the list. Walthers now has them list as in in their new product section. > > Thanks, > > Eric > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: "PRR Talk" From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] Classic Metal Works Tractor Trailer Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 12:08:56 -0500 To: "Brian J Carlson" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Jan 9, 2005, at 12:05 AM, ealauterbach@earthlink.net wrote: > The new Classic Metal Works Tractor Trailers for the late steam era > are coming out and I am wondering if any of the ones offered actually > were seen in and around the Pennsy area. I think someone mention them > a while back on the list. Walthers now has them list as in in their > new product section. On Jan 9, 2005, at 2:59 AM, Brian J Carlson wrote: > My dealer had a few today, Mid-States, Cooper-Jarrett, and Chicago > Express, > Hennis. I know they are also marketing PIE, and Roadway. I have also > seen > trailers of the first 3 I listed on Pennsy trailer trains. I brought this up on the list when Classic Metal Works first announced these trailers several months ago. As Brian cited, the Mid-States, Cooper-Jarrett, and Chicago Express are all appropriate for PRR TrucTrains. The PRR instituted TOFC service in June 1954, adding the flats to symbol LCL trains. In early 1955 they created dedicated TOFC trains under symbol TT. In March 1955 they started hauling third party trailers, such as those cited above. BTW, the "TrucTrain" name was applied to the service late in 1954, following an employee contest to name it. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: RE: [PRR] Classic Metal Works Tractor Trailer Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 12:39:08 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <000401c4f621$26fa2d60$5454c840@b6x9501> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Brian and List: I believe Roadway had a terminal in Camden, NJ. A relative worked for them for many years. I did see Cooper-Jarret and PIE when traveling the turnpike. Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Brian J Carlson Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 3:00 AM To: PRR Talk Subject: Fw: [PRR] Classic Metal Works Tractor Trailer My dealer had a few today, Mid-States, Cooper-Jarrett, and Chicago Express, Hennis. I know they are also marketing PIE, and Roadway. I have also seen trailers of the first 3 I listed on Pennsy trailer trains. As for seeing them on roads, I guess that would depend on what locale you are interested in. FYI a neat trucking site that may be of interest to some Pennsy modelers can be found at http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/ click on the truck pictures link at the top of the page. Brian J Carlson P.E. Cheektowaga NY ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 12:05 AM > Subject: [PRR] Classic Metal Works Tractor Trailer > > > > The new Classic Metal Works Tractor Trailers for the late steam era are > coming out and I am wondering if any of the ones offered actually were seen > in and around the Pennsy area. I think someone mention them a while back on > the list. Walthers now has them list as in in their new product section. > > Thanks, > > Eric > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 12:46:22 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PRR F-Units on NYC Lines. MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hello, Some of PRR F units had New York Central's "Automatic Train Stop" for use on NYC Lines. My question is would these units have GRS or US&S cab signals? Thanks in advance. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 10:11:42 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Conemaugh Division history question. From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR F-Units on NYC Lines. Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 18:33:48 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <12797-41E16DEE-567@storefull-3234.bay.webtv.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-SLUIDL: B8DEB1BA-936B46B2-B954B97E-EDAFF092 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Howdy Dave: Do you mean the EF15a (EMD model F7) 9656A to 9661A and 9666 for use over the NYC in the Erie PA area? They had NYC ITS (Inductive Train Stop) equipment installed on them. Not sure what all equipment this would include. Other then a few mentions here and there, I do not think I have ever seen a picture of one. Maybe Triumph VII, which covers the Erie area, can provide more information. Or are there others? Cos Wayne S. Betty Cos Communications, Inc. Small business IT services. Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone "If we can not have what we like, we must learn to like what we have!" John Paul Jones Building the next generation of Leaders, support your local troop! Troop 53 - Maytown PA Harvest District of the Pennsylvania Dutch Council Beat the Christmas rush - Go to Church now! -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of zootowerprr@webtv.net Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 12:46 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] PRR F-Units on NYC Lines. Hello, Some of PRR F units had New York Central's "Automatic Train Stop" for use on NYC Lines. My question is would these units have GRS or US&S cab signals? Thanks in advance. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Oerm2133@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 18:59:06 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR F-Units on NYC Lines. X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 1/9/05 4:41:25 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cos@mycyberlink.net writes: > PRR-Talk@dsop.com > There may be other pictures but I am looking at one of F7A 1905 on page 83 of "Pennsy Diesels 1924 - 1968" with the ITS visible. D Luke Lower Arizona ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR F-Units on NYC Lines. Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 19:59:40 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Page 47 of Pennsy Diesel Years 4 by Yanosey. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne S. Betty" > Do you mean the EF15a (EMD model F7) 9656A to 9661A and 9666 for use over > the NYC in the Erie PA area? > They had NYC ITS (Inductive Train Stop) equipment installed on them. Not > sure what all equipment this would include. > Other then a few mentions here and there, I do not think I have ever seen a > picture of one. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 08:09:41 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Patriot News Article On Enola Yard From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com The Harrisburg Patriot News has an article on the Enola Yard today... celebrating its 100th year... http://www.pennlive.com/news/patriotnews/index.ssf?/base/news/ 1105352403283341.xml ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 08:33:27 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Lettering Available From: Jerry Britton In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <35819CA8-630C-11D9-8DC4-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Greg's fonts are now available for download from the Art section of Keystone Crossings at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/art/ Thanks, Greg! On Wednesday, January 5, 2005, at 02:13 PM, Greg Ritacco wrote: > This is a generic reply to your request for the Pennsy font. The > upper case letters are PENNSYLVANIA and K. 10 numerals are included. > The lower case letters and & and period are also included. The letters > are traced from: > C-15746 15747 7" letters > D-92250 numerals > C-93642 4" letters > The zip file includes Mac and PC TT and PS files. I've tested them, > but there is no warranty. They are provided for your use and are not > for resale. > I would also like to hear from you about how you like or don't like > them. I did them fast so they kern poorly, that much I know. > > I could also really use letters as used on the last of the wooden > cars, Bd, Bn, Pk, stuff like that, please let me know if you have a > scan available. Enjoy the font. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 08:38:56 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Announcing http://rnetzlof.pennsyrr.com From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Bob Netzlof has been contributing material to a subsection of Mark Bej's Broadway Limited site (broadway.pennsyrr.com). However, due to time constraints on Mark's part since leaving the Cleveland Clinic some time ago, they agreed it would be best to separate the sites. Over the past few weeks Bob has created a new site, which is now active at http://rnetzlof.pennsyrr.com . Bob has been a great contributor to the Keystone Crossings site over the years and will manage this new site on his own. Good luck, Bob! His content on Mark's site will gradually be removed, as Mark's time permits. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR F-Units on NYC Lines. Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 08:34:42 -0600 Message-ID: <2261A19CD8CAD8449EFD62CAA311A7488B3CEB@EXCHANGE.herzogcompanies.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] PRR F-Units on NYC Lines. Thread-Index: AcT2uC2O1s9vzogqQUmCEKhm4TAa6AAaR4iA From: "Bill Volkmer" To: "Bob Zoeller" , Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Several of the Baldwin sharks had these appliances also. We used to refer to them as "the hook units." I'd have to look up the numbers if you want to know which ones. None of the sharks made it into the renumbering but the F units became the 1900 series, what few were left after the 1965 renumbering. Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bob Zoeller Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 9:00 PM To: PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR F-Units on NYC Lines. Page 47 of Pennsy Diesel Years 4 by Yanosey. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Wayne S. Betty" > Do you mean the EF15a (EMD model F7) 9656A to 9661A and 9666 for use over > the NYC in the Erie PA area? > They had NYC ITS (Inductive Train Stop) equipment installed on them. Not > sure what all equipment this would include. > Other then a few mentions here and there, I do not think I have ever seen a > picture of one. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR gas-electric motor cars Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 09:01:46 -0600 To: Bob Malberti X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Jan 8, 2005, at 7:50 PM, Bob Malberti wrote: > My name is Bob Malberti. This is my first time on PRR-talk. I am > trying to obtain the information necessary for scratchbuilding a PRR > gas-electric motor car in HO scale. I hope to build one good enough to > qualify for an NMRA Achievement Certificate. I would appreciate any > info directing me on how to get/copy blueprints or modeling articles > for this. I can be reached at pennsybrat@optonline.net Hi Bob (wasn't there a drinking game.... ), Welcome! Interesting project, and pretty appropriate as the only good models of PRR gas, or more properly diesel-electric railcars are brass models. The first issue is that it would be good to know which class of doodlebug you were interested in modeling. PRR had a variety of cars. Most of these did start out as gas powered (classes were GEW, gas-electric-westinghouse or GEG, gas-electric-GE). These were converted to diesel and re-classed OEW or OEG (oil-electric-Westinghouse/GE). Diagrams of these cars can be found at Rob Schoenberg's site: http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html? sel=gaselectric&sz=sm&fr= Photographs are widely scattered, however at least one PRR doodlebug survives and may be operated (IIRC #4666 on the Black River and Western in NJ) Once you pick a class, we can help locate photos... Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR gas-electric motor cars Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 10:20:03 -0500 From: Bruce Smith [mailto:smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu] Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR gas-electric motor cars Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 11:01:17 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I know some list members went to Cocoa Beach this past weekend. Any Pennsy news worth reporting? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 12:17:09 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Jerry, Yes, I received a "test shot" of the N scale X23 from Mark Gasson on Saturday. Al Westerfield was impressed. Need I say more? BTW, so were Bill Schneider and Stephen Funaro. The PRRT&HS contingent had by far the largest and most impressive model display. Bill Welch gave a great clinic on Fruit Growers Express, too. Of course, Bruce Smith and Ben Hom covered the R50b and X29 superbly, too. For N scalers, Branchline models had a bunch of lasercut structures that are perfect for PRR layouts as the buildings are typical New England-Middle Atlantic design. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 11:01 AM Subject: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? >I know some list members went to Cocoa Beach this past weekend. Any Pennsy >news worth reporting? > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 12:24:40 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Monday, January 10, 2005, at 12:17 PM, Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > Yes, I received a "test shot" of the N scale X23 from Mark Gasson on > Saturday. Al Westerfield was impressed. Need I say more? Yes, please. Impressed as in "you're going to do really well with this" or impressed as in... walk away quietly, scratch head, and tell wife "maybe we ought to take another look at this"??? ;-) > > For N scalers, Branchline models had a bunch of lasercut structures > that are perfect for PRR layouts as the buildings are typical New > England-Middle Atlantic design. There are a whole slew of very nice laser cut models coming out of the woodwork these days... Branchline, Custom Model Railroads, N Scale Architect, etc. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 12:06:10 -0600 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Jan 10, 2005, at 10:01 AM, Jerry Britton wrote: > I know some list members went to Cocoa Beach this past weekend. Any > Pennsy news worth reporting? Well, Prototype Rails 2005, the 5th annual Cocoa Beach Prototype modelers meet is now over. We had a GREAT PRR presence there. We grabbed a corner and we had two tables in either direction of models, plus an adjacent round table for our "non-PRR" models. Ben Hom brought a printed copy of TKM and the Winter 2004 Keystone, as well as a great series of laminated posters showing the PRRPro projects. Modelers displaying included Ben Hom, Greg Martin, Stan Rydarowicz, Kris Kollar, Dave Volkmer, Greg Mahklov and myself, of course (sorry if I left anyone out, my brain is FRIED!). I have photos of most of the models on my camera, as does Ben (I think). We were a HUGE and obvious presence . I think we inspired the AT&SF guys - they think next year will be their year, but they have a long way to go... There were some fantastic clinics as alwasy. Of interest to the PRR-modeler were several including Ben Hom's on the X29, mine on the R50B (PRRPro project), and two by Bill Welch on the FGE/WFE/BRE reefer fleets. Joe Jack presented two "unofficial" clinics Friday and Saturday night after the regular clinics were over with his slides of Conway, and an arial tour of the PRR from near Pittsburgh to Altoona - incredible! The biggest news for me came from two clinics about the Bob Charles photo collection. This collection was purchased by past NMRA president Charles from a widow somewhere in PA, sometime in the 1970s (he can't remember exactly, and there are no photo credits). The collection has been donated to the NMRA Kalmbach library and has sort of sat there until now... What is it? Only somewhere over 500 photographs shot in and around Harrisburg in 1946-48!!!!! Un-believable!!! About 90% of the shots appear to be on the PRR while the remainder are on the Reading. Ted Culotta showed lots of shots of house cars, reefers and a few others, while Larry Kline did the hoppers and gons. NMRA will be releasing a new book edited by Culotta and Kline with over 300 photos (mostly of the non-PRR cars, but with representative PRR photos as well) sometime this summer (hopefully before the convention). This book will be a MUST HAVE for the serious Pennsy modeler, as it will give a "snapshot" of the foreign cars on the road. I wrote down some 15 or more foreign hopper cars and didn't get them all... how about Central of Georgia? There is the potential that the PRR part of the collection could be published as a separate book... Not too much news from the manufacturers. Walthers had test shots of some more of their cars, including the heavyweight diner (Southern prototype) and their new wood express reefer (General American). Both look nice. Bill Wischer of Walthers told me that the B60B molds should begin to be cut soon, and that they look good for a mid-year arrival. Stan Rydarowicz was displaying his model of the single panel side GLF (Bowser GLA with resin panels) which he is selling and of course he had his F30 parts. Bill Schneider was there from Branchline with their cars, although no FOM 12-1 or other tuscan cars other than the John Jay 12-1 that I reviewed in TKM and as noted, some nice structures. Mr. Greene of Bethlehem Car Works was displaying the etched brass sides for the B60A. He had both early (rectangular windows in the sides and doors) and late (porthole window) versions. As most of you know, I'm not an etched brass fan, but he has managed to get 3 levels of detail on these sides - rivets, battens and panels - albeit shallow, and in fact soldering the door behind does give even more depth. He also had his line of trucks there. F & C and Westerfield were both there, although with nothing new on the PRR side. I did talk to Al about the R7 and he indicated that the big hold up is past (he hopes ), so, it is coming. A bunch of us talked about getting a set of decals done for National refrigerator cars, including Kahn's, as the PRR RF reefers were first transferred to FGE and then to National, and some remained in service until at least the late 1940's! Greg Mahlkov has already mentioned the n-scale resin X23 prototype. Finally Ted Culotta was there selling the 1932 AAR boxcar book and some incredibly nice SOUTHERN decals as well as decals for the as-yet-to-be-release IM AT&SF stock car (the kits will be undec). Now I need to get some work done to pay for what I bought! Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:24:58 -0500 Subject: [PRR] HARRIS Tower to be Produced in HO and N Scales! From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Product Announcement... Merchandise Service has commissioned The N Scale Architect to produce HARRIS tower in HO and N scales. The N Scale Architect recently produced ALTO tower and the response was excellent. The HARRIS tower model will only be available through Merchandise Service. More information is available at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/ms_ar.html . Scroll down to "Due in July". Thank you! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 15:24:22 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Jerry, Al Westerfield was very complementary. He said that the X23 was the one car design he did not feel competent to do the master on himself so had help from two professional modelmakers. But this will be up to his standards. There are still a couple of minor "glitches" - like getting the roof to seat properly. But the details are fantastic, like freestanding brake lines, and proper shape and dimensions for all the stamped bracing. It will be a "knock your socks off" model. Mark does not want photos released until it is perfected. BTW, Bruce mentioned the R7's - Fruit Growers still had 114 of these in 1953 per Bill Welch's clinic!!!! Gotta get after Mark about that. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "Gregg Mahlkov" Cc: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? > On Monday, January 10, 2005, at 12:17 PM, Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > >> Yes, I received a "test shot" of the N scale X23 from Mark Gasson on >> Saturday. Al Westerfield was impressed. Need I say more? > > Yes, please. Impressed as in "you're going to do really well with this" or > impressed as in... walk away quietly, scratch head, and tell wife "maybe > we ought to take another look at this"??? ;-) >> >> For N scalers, Branchline models had a bunch of lasercut structures that >> are perfect for PRR layouts as the buildings are typical New >> England-Middle Atlantic design. > > There are a whole slew of very nice laser cut models coming out of the > woodwork these days... Branchline, Custom Model Railroads, N Scale > Architect, etc. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 15:29:07 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Reports? From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Monday, January 10, 2005, at 03:24 PM, Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > Al Westerfield was very complementary. He said that the X23 was the > one car design he did not feel competent to do the master on himself > so had help from two professional modelmakers. But this will be up to > his st