From: abendschein@comcast.net Subject: [PRR] PRR Calendars - Equivalent Years Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 03:37:31 +0000 From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Steam Locomotive Engineers question Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 00:24:01 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com PRR Listers: What all the neat PRR steam stuff that has come out in HO scale, which = model firm makes the best and most accurate engineer figures to be = placed in the cab?=20 PRR-specific, are there any engineer figures that would be more "Pennsy" = than others? I don't know if I would go as far as to ask if the Pennsy = had a dress code but did they? (vbg) TIA Ted Andrews ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 07:25:38 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Steam Locomotive Engineers question MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Ted, Here is a good photo of what I take as a typical PRR Crew. http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/jcrew.jpg Sadly, no good ones exsist in HO Scale that copies these guys.. Artista however makes some pretty good figures in O Scale.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 09:11:50 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] UP power on NS X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Carl & List, UP power has been traveling east over the former Pennsy lines since Conrail. UP, SOO, CN and BNSF power has been showing up in Reading, Pa. for several years. To reach Reading it comes in from Harrisburg, Pa., which means it comes east on the mainline from Pittsburgh or sometimes off the north-south lines into Harrisburg. Just after the Conrail was split between NS and CSX, my brother took me for a visit to NS's Harrisburg Yard, across the Susquehanna River from Enola Yard. On one TOFC train coming up from Hagerstown, Md. there was a NS unit in the lead followed by a SOO unit and a BNSF unit. I know that UP units began showing up in Pa. during the first months of Conrail as my brother sent me a few snap shots of Conrail trains with foreign power taken at CP Valley. CP Valley is a heavily used junction for Philadelphia and New York City freight traveling east-west. Back in the "good old days" of the Pennsy, it was not uncommon for CB&Q units to be seen running in Pennsy trains through Harrisburg. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 09:17:41 EST Subject: [PRR] Steam Engineer & Fireman X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com LaBelle makes a but very nicely done engineer and fireman in HO. Also, check out Branchline's extensive line of figures as they may also make engine crew figures. Will check the local hobby shop for in-stock engine crewmen and post stock numbers if they fit the bill. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 09:20:46 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] UP power on NS From: Jerry Britton In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <31160ECC-43A4-11D9-968C-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com This subject is a bit too tangent to the intended topic at hand. Please discontinue or move discussion to an NS forum. Thanks. ---------------------------------------- Listmaster Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Personal" Subject: [PRR] Need Colors Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 09:47:14 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Dear Group, I would really appreciate some help. I am taking a Black & White picture that is on my computer, and wanting to add Tuscan Red & the PRR Green that most Diesels came in to the two Diesels in the picture by using Photoshop. Our Daughter is a very accomplished and noted Graphic Designer,=20 who said she would make it a color picture if I could get the = correct/exact Pennsy colors. This is not some kind of authentic anything, it is for my personal = enjoyment. When I get it done, I will post it for everyone's viewing. It is a very rare picture of something that never was, but it looks = really pretty. I paid to have it scanned and sent to me. The help I need from any of you is where can I get the most accurate = color paletts? I would appreciate your help. Website link, if applicable, would be = great. Best regards, Eric Trenga ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: "PRR-Talk" From: Don Harper Subject: Re: [PRR] UP power on NS Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 09:09:25 -0600 To: "Carl Izzo" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Return-Path: harperd@tamug.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Dec 2004 15:12:49.0300 (UTC) FILETIME=[38603540:01C4D7B8] Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I photographed SP power at Rochester, on the Ft. Wayne line in the past. And on the 28th of Nov. I photographed two NS engines pulling a double stack through Alpine in West Texas, on the former SP east-west line. The RR companies lease power back and forth all the time. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 harperd@tamug.edu On Nov 30, 2004, at 8:26 PM, Carl Izzo wrote: > A friend claims to have seen Union Pacific Power pulling a train on > the NS mainline near Greensburg, PA. DId NS buy or lease UP > locomotives? > > Carl Izzo > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: MLiebeskin@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 13:11:04 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 12/01/04: N&W on the PRR X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Al Staufer describes the arrival of a Class A on the PRR in one of his books, the name of which escapes me momentarily. John Liebeskind ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 12/01/04: N&W on the PRR Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 18:26:00 +0000 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com If I'm not mistaken I think Pennsy Power has a picture or two and the Ball book The PRR in the 40's and 50's has a fairly extensive disertation in the beginning regarding the testing of the A class on the PRR and the T1 on the N&W. Since I am in the middle of relocating neither is available to me at the moment. However they are two different topics as the Stauffer pictures are of the y-3's sold to the PRR (HH-1 class?) as I recall. Norm Bell -------------- Original message from MLiebeskin@aol.com: -------------- > Al Staufer describes the arrival of a Class A on the PRR in one of his > books, the name of which escapes me momentarily. John Liebeskind > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 13:41:23 -0500 From: dave pierson Subject: [PRR] PRR On Milwaukee Road Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com PRR Trivia: What was the PRR Clearance Car doing in Montana? ca 1961, Milwaukee Rd embarked on a tunnel lowering project, for auto racks etc. As part of this effort, a PRR Clearance Car was leased to assist. Current 'Milwaukee Railroader' (MRHA magazine) has story of tunnel project, with extended sidebar on PRR 497125. http://www.mrha.com/ best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: dave pierson Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 13:41:23 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR On Milwaukee Road PRR Trivia: What was the PRR Clearance Car doing in Montana? ca 1961, Milwaukee Rd embarked on a tunnel lowering project, for auto racks etc. As part of this effort, a PRR Clearance Car was leased to assist. Current 'Milwaukee Railroader' (MRHA magazine) has story of tunnel project, with extended sidebar on PRR 497125. http://www.mrha.com/ best dwp ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 16:54:05 -0500 From: Drew McGhee Subject: Re: [PRR] What's not in Arranged Freight? From: Tom Kane Subject: [PRR] Re: N&W on the PRR Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 14:08:20 -0800 From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 12/01/04: N&W on the PRR From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 22:55:42 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 12/01/04: N&W on the PRR X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In Don Ball's book on the Pennsy of the 1940s -1950s, he describes the arrival of the N&W Class A loco at Altoona for testing. He goes into a little detail on about the Pennsy's reasons for not pursuing articulate locos. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 00:20:54 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 12/01/04 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 12/1/04 1:12:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: N&W Steam on PRR > From: "Robert Troop" > Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 01:32:00 -0500 > > During May 1943 the Pennsy purchased six 1919 vintage Norfolk &Western class > Y3, 2-8-8-2 Mallets and became PRR class HH1. Staufer's book Pennsy Power > indicates these spent the war years in transfer and hump duty at Enola. Later > they were transferred to Columbus. > > Bob > > Continuing the tradition of sending all the unusual stuff to Lines West. At least in Columbus they had plenty of other N&W power for company -- from little 4-8-0 Mastodons on up. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walter Prusick" Subject: [PRR] Pennsy details Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 07:47:11 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Guys, Does anyone out there have a quick/easy/inexpensive way that they would like to share on fabricating the circular windows seen on Pennsy RPO and baggage car doors? (I'm kit bashing AHM's RPO following the article by Bob Kessler's article in the Nov '95 RMC.) Thanks ahead of time. Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 08:04:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy details MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Walt, Is this a trick question? Just use a round drill bit instead of a square drill bit....... Actually this is what I did on my large scale N5c Cabin Car. I first drilled an appropriate sized whole for the window in the car side. Then I glued a small square sheet of styrene to the back side of the car side at the drilled out opening. Then with a tad smaller drill bit, drill another hole into the center of the first hole. This will give you a window with a window rim. I am guessing the Baggage windows were this type as well. No need for rivet detail as found on the N5c window, at least I don't think so....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 00:20:54 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: N&W Steam on PRR In a message dated 12/1/04 1:12:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: N&W Steam on PRR > From: "Robert Troop" > Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 01:32:00 -0500 > > During May 1943 the Pennsy purchased six 1919 vintage Norfolk &Western class > Y3, 2-8-8-2 Mallets and became PRR class HH1. Staufer's book Pennsy Power > indicates these spent the war years in transfer and hump duty at Enola. Later > they were transferred to Columbus. > > Bob > > Continuing the tradition of sending all the unusual stuff to Lines West. At least in Columbus they had plenty of other N&W power for company -- from little 4-8-0 Mastodons on up. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy details Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 10:53:10 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-reply-to: <004301c4d86d$0bbbabe0$a6699b04@stargate.net> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcTYbVV1OQe1LXqZQUa6cWkXErFU4gAGUVjA Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I understand. If you use a prototypically thin door, drilling a clean hole is very difficult. Paper hole punches are available in a variety of sizes at good crafts stores. The office standard .25" hole is too big, but 3/16 should be about right. Anyone know the diameter of those round windows? regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Walter Prusick Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 7:47 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Pennsy details Guys, Does anyone out there have a quick/easy/inexpensive way that they would like to share on fabricating the circular windows seen on Pennsy RPO and baggage car doors? (I'm kit bashing AHM's RPO following the article by Bob Kessler's article in the Nov '95 RMC.) Thanks ahead of time. Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 16:35:20 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] Steam to Diesel in New Jersey From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] BLI K4s Headlight Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 22:38:04 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Listers, I just recieved my BLI K4s, undec w/slat pilot. I saw the=20 headlight cord was attached when shipped, but not inserted=20 into the boiler front. I know it was designed to ship like=20 this, but how does the headlight weave into the headlght=20 housing. It's obvious that the hole is big enough for it,=20 but without cutting a groove into either the boiler plate=20 or top of the smokebox i don't see how it would fit. Any help is appreciated. Until then i'll be running=20 unsafely for the railroad, sans-headlight. Regards, John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 19:50:34 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K4s Headlight From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 23:15:21 EST Subject: [PRR] Engine Crew Figures X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com This is in response to a list member's request for steam loco crewmen. Precision Scale Co. - Engineer/fireman set 058531281, engineer alone 05855863, fireman alone 05855864. These must be Lines West crewmen as they are too slim for the Lines East engine crews (Have you ever seen a slim Pennsylvania Dutchman? ). The fireman is a little unusual in that he is holding a clipboard. Also, figures are unpainted metal and the engineer has his right arm as a separate piece so that it can be positioned. Branchline's Towns People - 0181101 Engine Bart and 0181114 Fireman Fred are very nice and painted. Fred is shoveling coal. Woodland Scenics - Did not have time to scope out this line but with all the new figure sets released in the past half year there are probably figures suitable for cabs. LaBelle - both steam and diesel loco crews prepainted. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Breon" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K4s Headlight Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 07:27:16 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I would just add to what Bill explained by mentioning that it is = probably best to get the headlight removal started by pushing on the = backside of the headlight mounting pins (they are in thru-holes and = exposed) with a small punch so as not to risk breaking them by pulling = on the plastic headlight casting. These suggestions, of course, refer to = the version with the headlight mounted on the smokebox front. The = versions with the headlight on top of the smokebox come from the factory = with the lamp already in place.=20 Jerry Breon Birdsboro, PA ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bill Daniels=20 To: John Frantz ; = PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 10:50 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K4s Headlight John, The way you do this is to gently remove the headlight and bracket from the smokebox front. It is NOT glued in, just a snug fit. Once the headlight is off, run the bulb and wire through the hole in the smokebox, then put the bulb into the back of the headlight casting, then replace the casting back on the smokebox front. You can then mount the smokebox front onto the boiler (well, actually the smokebox). You should be good to go. Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walter Prusick" Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Details 2 Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 07:46:15 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Ok guys, First off let me thank you for your quick responses. Guess my quandry now has two parts: A) what is the diameter of said windows. All of the drawings show square/rectangular openings. B) I have 6 cars in the paint stripper and the only class of BM which follows the window arrangement of the AHM car is the BM70nb. How "common" were these cars? ( Doing BM70m, ma or n would require modification of the windows, and I doubt my skills on pulling that one off). Thanks again, Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 09:06:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Details 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Walt, Hopefully someone can come up with a drawing showing the true size as I don't seem to have any documentation here. However, I was once told, and not sure how true it is, that all the porthole windows used on the PRR (B60 Baggage, N5c, etc) were all the same size and it happened to coincide with the diameter of the glass used in the electric headlights. I was told 18 inches. I can confirm the diameter of the N5c window tomorrow when I am there for our restoration work session. It may or not be exactly 1 inches but I believe it is very close. I know someone with a B60 Baggage that I can ask for a measurment as well....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Details 2 Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 09:14:34 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-reply-to: <002b01c4d936$14b84ae0$dc699b04@stargate.net> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcTZNtDuipoq/XmDS3C9wyLbh3OTzQACzIhw Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I have built 2 BM70m's from the AHM car. I used Grant Line narrow gauge windows, six wheel trucks, scratch built porthole doors, and the Bethlehem M70 roof. The BM70m was the most common RPO in my era, the early 50s. Now, anyone have clue as to how to do an HO BM70k ? regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Walter Prusick Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 7:46 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Details 2 Ok guys, First off let me thank you for your quick responses. Guess my quandry now has two parts: A) what is the diameter of said windows. All of the drawings show square/rectangular openings. B) I have 6 cars in the paint stripper and the only class of BM which follows the window arrangement of the AHM car is the BM70nb. How "common" were these cars? ( Doing BM70m, ma or n would require modification of the windows, and I doubt my skills on pulling that one off). Thanks again, Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 09:19:03 -0500 From: Rod Schaffter Subject: [PRR] RE: Pennsy details X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0449-1, 12/02/2004), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Assuming you are making the holes in styrene, sharpen the end of a brass tube of proper diameter, and use it with pressure and a wood block backing to punch out the hole. Filing a couple of notches in the end of the tube might enable you to use it as a drill(haven't tried it myself!). Cheers, Rod Schaffter -- "1918's now just another year we won the World Series." -- Red Sox GM Theo Epstein. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 09:23:34 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam A friend of mine recently showed me a picture of an H6sb and asked if I could determine when it was taken. The only clue I could find was the train control box on the fireman's side running board. I told him this made it likely that the picture was taken after WWII. Does anyone know the date when the PRR started to put this device on steam locos? regards, Andy Miller ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: [PRR] Train control on PRR steam Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 09:23:34 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-reply-to: <9b.53e0b3be.2ee0e8b0@aol.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcTY0U+xGY1oxjXMSECIK0EpARSPCwAceFUw Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com A friend of mine recently showed me a picture of an H6sb and asked if I could determine when it was taken. The only clue I could find was the train control box on the fireman's side running board. I told him this made it likely that the picture was taken after WWII. Does anyone know the date when the PRR started to put this device on steam locos? regards, Andy Miller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Broad Street Frieght House Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 16:51:47 +0000 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Does anybody know the approximate date the Broad Street freight house just east of North Philadelphia station was removed from service? This was on the north side of the tracks on the east side of Broad Street and was serviced off the #5 track. Thank you, Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 12:17:59 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-reply-to: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcTZVsNJQjPv1va8Tv+2sNe4Qb4nPQABO0eA Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Lin, Thanx. You answered a lot of my questions. Now the only piece of the puzzle is to identify the box on my friend's H6 picture. Unfortunately, his post cars is not online (yet) but a similar box is on this K4: http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr383.jpg On the running board just aft of the steam delivery pipe. Is that the ASC? regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: H BONGAARDT [mailto:linbongaardt@msn.com] Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 11:27 AM To: PRR@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam Andy, et. al., Some quick answers; I don't have my library here at work. The initial Automatic Train Control (ATC) installation on the PRR was the test setup on the Lewistown Branch installed in about 1923-4. This was a true ATC system in that train speed was controlled as a result of the cab signal aspect received. It also was the earlier "loop system", rather than the later and much more widely used "coder system." There were only three cab signal aspects with this system. It was dismantled in 1926. The first two "production" installations (both with four cab-signal aspects) were on the Northern Central Branch (loop system) and on the West Jersey & Seashore between Camden and Atlantic City (coder system) installed in 1926-7. The coder system was deemed superior and was used in all subsequent installations on the PRR (and soon replaced the loop system on the NC Branch). Interestingly, the Santa Fe had a three-aspect loop system ATC installation without fixed automatic block signals between Pequot and East Fort Madison that was installed in 1925-6 and evidently lasted into the 1960s. The PRR began an extensive installation of cab signals but petitioned the ICC to allow it to install just cab signals without the train control feature, in return for the extensive installation of cabs. The ICC agreed ca. 1931. From ca. 1931 until ca. 1951, there were very few if any engines that had ATC on the PRR. On account of a couple rearend collisions (most recently the Rosemont accident), the PRR decided to install Automatic Speed Control (ASC) on passenger engines only. The installation began in ca. 1951. Note that freight engines were not equipped with ASC, at least not in great numbers with the possible exception of electric engines. Regarding your other questions, the steam-operated turbo-generator on steam engines provided the power for lights and the cab-signal package. When engines were equipped with ATC or the later ASC, they were equipped with a speed recorder that was driven from an axle on the pilot truck. The engine sensed the appropriate speed that it should operate from a pickup bar on the front that received energy from the coded track circuit in the rails. The brakes were applied if the train was exceeding the appropriate speed and crew was warned of the overspeed by a warning whistle. Back to work!! Best regards, Lin Bongaardt >From: "Andy Miller" >Reply-To: PRR@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam >Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 10:34:59 -0500 > > > >Al, > >When I passed you answer to my friend, he asked the interesting >question of how a ATC system worked on a steam loco. AFAIK the only >electrical device was the headlight. How did the ATC sense speed or signals? How did it >control the loco? Did it dump the steam? Apply the air brakes? Or did >it >just alert the crew? > >regards, > >Andy Miller > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 12:17:59 -0500 Subject: RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam Lin, Thanx. You answered a lot of my questions. Now the only piece of the puzzle is to identify the box on my friend's H6 picture. Unfortunately, his post cars is not online (yet) but a similar box is on this K4: http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr383.jpg On the running board just aft of the steam delivery pipe. Is that the ASC? regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: H BONGAARDT [mailto:linbongaardt@msn.com] Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 11:27 AM To: PRR@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam Andy, et. al., Some quick answers; I don't have my library here at work. The initial Automatic Train Control (ATC) installation on the PRR was the test setup on the Lewistown Branch installed in about 1923-4. This was a true ATC system in that train speed was controlled as a result of the cab signal aspect received. It also was the earlier "loop system", rather than the later and much more widely used "coder system." There were only three cab signal aspects with this system. It was dismantled in 1926. The first two "production" installations (both with four cab-signal aspects) were on the Northern Central Branch (loop system) and on the West Jersey & Seashore between Camden and Atlantic City (coder system) installed in 1926-7. The coder system was deemed superior and was used in all subsequent installations on the PRR (and soon replaced the loop system on the NC Branch). Interestingly, the Santa Fe had a three-aspect loop system ATC installation without fixed automatic block signals between Pequot and East Fort Madison that was installed in 1925-6 and evidently lasted into the 1960s. The PRR began an extensive installation of cab signals but petitioned the ICC to allow it to install just cab signals without the train control feature, in return for the extensive installation of cabs. The ICC agreed ca. 1931. From ca. 1931 until ca. 1951, there were very few if any engines that had ATC on the PRR. On account of a couple rearend collisions (most recently the Rosemont accident), the PRR decided to install Automatic Speed Control (ASC) on passenger engines only. The installation began in ca. 1951. Note that freight engines were not equipped with ASC, at least not in great numbers with the possible exception of electric engines. Regarding your other questions, the steam-operated turbo-generator on steam engines provided the power for lights and the cab-signal package. When engines were equipped with ATC or the later ASC, they were equipped with a speed recorder that was driven from an axle on the pilot truck. The engine sensed the appropriate speed that it should operate from a pickup bar on the front that received energy from the coded track circuit in the rails. The brakes were applied if the train was exceeding the appropriate speed and crew was warned of the overspeed by a warning whistle. Back to work!! Best regards, Lin Bongaardt >From: "Andy Miller" >Reply-To: PRR@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam >Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 10:34:59 -0500 > > > >Al, > >When I passed you answer to my friend, he asked the interesting >question of how a ATC system worked on a steam loco. AFAIK the only >electrical device was the headlight. How did the ATC sense speed or signals? How did it >control the loco? Did it dump the steam? Apply the air brakes? Or did >it >just alert the crew? > >regards, > >Andy Miller > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 13:08:30 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-MDRemoteIP: 192.0.1.150 X-Return-Path: geshick@velocity.net X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Could that be the NYC train stop equipment for locos where the PRR had trackage rights? Andy, have you checked to see if the BLI tired driver will work on the Bachmann yet? ----- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Miller" To: ; Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 12:17 PM Subject: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam > Lin, > > Thanx. You answered a lot of my questions. Now the only piece of the > puzzle is to identify the box on my friend's H6 picture. Unfortunately, > his post cars is not online (yet) but a similar box is on this K4: > http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr383.jpg > > On the running board just aft of the steam delivery pipe. Is that the ASC? > > regards, > > Andy Miller > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 13:31:33 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-reply-to: <002401c4d963$18591ee0$960100c0@ges> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcTZY9+fo97+eBu/Sy+oYU1vWfAlZAAAjUWA Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com 1. I don't believe that that box is related to NYC operation. It appears on almost all K4s. The earliest photo I can find of it on-line is 1946. 2. I don't own a Bachman, but the traction tired driver does wonders on my BLI. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Shickler Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 1:09 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam Could that be the NYC train stop equipment for locos where the PRR had trackage rights? Andy, have you checked to see if the BLI tired driver will work on the Bachmann yet? ----- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Miller" To: ; Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 12:17 PM Subject: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam > Lin, > > Thanx. You answered a lot of my questions. Now the only piece of the > puzzle is to identify the box on my friend's H6 picture. Unfortunately, > his post cars is not online (yet) but a similar box is on this K4: > http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr383.jpg > > On the running board just aft of the steam delivery pipe. Is that the ASC? > > regards, > > Andy Miller > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 13:39:05 -0500 Subject: RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam Lin, The earliest photo I can find on-line with that box is dated 1945. http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr5346.jpg It is mounted on the pilot beam rather than the running board. It appears to have been moved to the running board location with the post war front end "beautification" treatment. I can find no photos of locos with that box pre-war. So I think I am safe in telling my friend that his H6sb photo was taken after WWII. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: H BONGAARDT [mailto:linbongaardt@msn.com] Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 1:07 PM To: PRR@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam Andy, Yes, that is the box that contained the cab-signal (also speed control if equipped) apparatus. Lin >From: "Andy Miller" >Reply-To: PRR@yahoogroups.com >To: , >Subject: RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam >Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 12:17:59 -0500 > > > >Lin, > >Thanx. You answered a lot of my questions. Now the only piece of the >puzzle is to identify the box on my friend's H6 picture. Unfortunately, >his post cars is not online (yet) but a similar box is on this K4: >http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr383.jpg > >On the running board just aft of the steam delivery pipe. Is that the ASC? > >regards, > >Andy Miller > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 12:43:57 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam Hi Andy--Here is a photo of a K4 which I think is equipped with the ATC or ASC speed recorder driven from the front axle of the pilot truck. http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/k43747.JPG Lacking the speed recorder drive, I assume the box you are referring to contains the electronics for the cab signals. >From photos I have seen, the vast majority of steam road engines in the 50's were equipped with these boxes. In HO CalScale has an excellent casting which they call a "Train Control Box w/bracket,Union 3-Speed" 190-252. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Miller" To: ; Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 11:17 AM Subject: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam > Lin, > > Thanx. You answered a lot of my questions. Now the only piece of the > puzzle is to identify the box on my friend's H6 picture. Unfortunately, > his post cars is not online (yet) but a similar box is on this K4: > http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr383.jpg > > On the running board just aft of the steam delivery pipe. Is that the ASC? > > regards, > > Andy Miller > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 13:39:05 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-reply-to: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcTZY/ioJFZLEFvnQwufcyi1VNSm6gAAs3EQ Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Lin, The earliest photo I can find on-line with that box is dated 1945. http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr5346.jpg It is mounted on the pilot beam rather than the running board. It appears to have been moved to the running board location with the post war front end "beautification" treatment. I can find no photos of locos with that box pre-war. So I think I am safe in telling my friend that his H6sb photo was taken after WWII. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: H BONGAARDT [mailto:linbongaardt@msn.com] Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 1:07 PM To: PRR@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam Andy, Yes, that is the box that contained the cab-signal (also speed control if equipped) apparatus. Lin >From: "Andy Miller" >Reply-To: PRR@yahoogroups.com >To: , >Subject: RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam >Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 12:17:59 -0500 > > > >Lin, > >Thanx. You answered a lot of my questions. Now the only piece of the >puzzle is to identify the box on my friend's H6 picture. Unfortunately, >his post cars is not online (yet) but a similar box is on this K4: >http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr383.jpg > >On the running board just aft of the steam delivery pipe. Is that the ASC? > >regards, > >Andy Miller > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 12:43:57 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-ELNK-Trace: 65fbc22f705d6e9971639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940f0ae72cb9130a49873ea2acaacd5bca8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 199.174.135.110 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi Andy--Here is a photo of a K4 which I think is equipped with the ATC or ASC speed recorder driven from the front axle of the pilot truck. http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/k43747.JPG Lacking the speed recorder drive, I assume the box you are referring to contains the electronics for the cab signals. >From photos I have seen, the vast majority of steam road engines in the 50's were equipped with these boxes. In HO CalScale has an excellent casting which they call a "Train Control Box w/bracket,Union 3-Speed" 190-252. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Miller" To: ; Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 11:17 AM Subject: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam > Lin, > > Thanx. You answered a lot of my questions. Now the only piece of the > puzzle is to identify the box on my friend's H6 picture. Unfortunately, > his post cars is not online (yet) but a similar box is on this K4: > http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr383.jpg > > On the running board just aft of the steam delivery pipe. Is that the ASC? > > regards, > > Andy Miller > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 13:51:43 -0500 Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam Steve, I use that Cal Scale part on all my super detailed Bowser K4s. But I don't believe the box contains "electronics". This is the 1940s. Transistors are yet to be invented, and vacuum tubes probably can't hold up to the rigors of RR operation. Relays and electromechanical devices are far more likely. And yes AFAIK that box on the lead truck axle end is a speed reading device. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: STEPHEN HOXIE [mailto:stevehprr@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 1:44 PM To: PRR@yahoogroups.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam Hi Andy--Here is a photo of a K4 which I think is equipped with the ATC or ASC speed recorder driven from the front axle of the pilot truck. http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/k43747.JPG Lacking the speed recorder drive, I assume the box you are referring to contains the electronics for the cab signals. >From photos I have seen, the vast majority of steam road engines in the 50's were equipped with these boxes. In HO CalScale has an excellent casting which they call a "Train Control Box w/bracket,Union 3-Speed" 190-252. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Miller" To: ; Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 11:17 AM Subject: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam > Lin, > > Thanx. You answered a lot of my questions. Now the only piece of the > puzzle is to identify the box on my friend's H6 picture. Unfortunately, > his post cars is not online (yet) but a similar box is on this K4: > http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr383.jpg > > On the running board just aft of the steam delivery pipe. Is that the ASC? > > regards, > > Andy Miller > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 12:49:16 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-ELNK-Trace: 65fbc22f705d6e9971639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9400371a1d8418a5c60ed1ec1910abb23bc350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 199.174.135.110 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi Andy--Here is a photo of a K4 which I think is equipped with the ATC or ASC speed recorder driven from the front axle of the pilot truck. http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/k43747.JPG Lacking the speed recorder drive, I assume the box you are referring to contains the electronics for the cab signals. >From photos I have seen, the vast majority of steam road engines in the 50's were equipped with these boxes. In HO CalScale has an excellent casting which they call a "Train Control Box w/bracket,Union 3-Speed" 190-252. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 13:51:43 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-reply-to: <009301c4d968$0d2c74e0$a58baec7@hoxiecomp> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcTZaAzuF9qmOh92STWgCHkYCjwF7wAAIcVg Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Steve, I use that Cal Scale part on all my super detailed Bowser K4s. But I don't believe the box contains "electronics". This is the 1940s. Transistors are yet to be invented, and vacuum tubes probably can't hold up to the rigors of RR operation. Relays and electromechanical devices are far more likely. And yes AFAIK that box on the lead truck axle end is a speed reading device. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: STEPHEN HOXIE [mailto:stevehprr@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 1:44 PM To: PRR@yahoogroups.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam Hi Andy--Here is a photo of a K4 which I think is equipped with the ATC or ASC speed recorder driven from the front axle of the pilot truck. http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/k43747.JPG Lacking the speed recorder drive, I assume the box you are referring to contains the electronics for the cab signals. >From photos I have seen, the vast majority of steam road engines in the 50's were equipped with these boxes. In HO CalScale has an excellent casting which they call a "Train Control Box w/bracket,Union 3-Speed" 190-252. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Miller" To: ; Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 11:17 AM Subject: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam > Lin, > > Thanx. You answered a lot of my questions. Now the only piece of the > puzzle is to identify the box on my friend's H6 picture. Unfortunately, > his post cars is not online (yet) but a similar box is on this K4: > http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr383.jpg > > On the running board just aft of the steam delivery pipe. Is that the ASC? > > regards, > > Andy Miller > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Walthers trucks Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 14:44:23 -0500 From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 15:17:23 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam Hi Andy--I absolutely agree. I was using "electronics" in its very broadest sense. And it is somewhat more concise than "electro-mechanical device." In any event, the CalScale part is a non-operable device....... Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Miller" To: ; Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 12:51 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam > Steve, > > I use that Cal Scale part on all my super detailed Bowser K4s. But I don't > believe the box contains "electronics". This is the 1940s. Transistors are > yet to be invented, and vacuum tubes probably can't hold up to the rigors of > RR operation. Relays and electromechanical devices are far more likely. > And yes AFAIK that box on the lead truck axle end is a speed reading device. > > > regards, > > Andy Miller > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 15:17:23 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-ELNK-Trace: 65fbc22f705d6e9971639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94092cd5da0cb455d8764322885d54015e4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 199.174.137.139 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi Andy--I absolutely agree. I was using "electronics" in its very broadest sense. And it is somewhat more concise than "electro-mechanical device." In any event, the CalScale part is a non-operable device....... Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Miller" To: ; Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 12:51 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam > Steve, > > I use that Cal Scale part on all my super detailed Bowser K4s. But I don't > believe the box contains "electronics". This is the 1940s. Transistors are > yet to be invented, and vacuum tubes probably can't hold up to the rigors of > RR operation. Relays and electromechanical devices are far more likely. > And yes AFAIK that box on the lead truck axle end is a speed reading device. > > > regards, > > Andy Miller > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-Talk From: Don Harper Subject: [PRR] Annual meeting of the Penn Texas chapter Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 17:04:05 -0600 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Return-Path: harperd@tamug.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Dec 2004 23:07:33.0679 (UTC) FILETIME=[DF3703F0:01C4D98C] Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com The Penn Texas chapter of the PRRT&HS will meet at the model railroad club in Galveston, corner of 27th and Market. Set up so far are double headed T1's with passenger consist, double headed M1's with an 80 car hopper consist and and A-B-A Erie built series with a mixed freight consist. We will probably set up double headed K4's with passenger consist. Anyone in the area is welcome to join us at 1 pm for the meeting. Train running will commence about 2:30 PM. This weekend is Dickens on the Strand so street parking may be a problem. The Railroad Museum parking lot will be open. The lot entrance is on 28th Street. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 harperd@tamug.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 22:35:50 EST Subject: [PRR] RE: Pennsy details X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com For window panes, once the inside diameter of the window is known, check out American Model Builders extensive line of laser cut HO scale windows. While they also have offerings (no windows) in N, S and O scales, the windows are only listed under HO. They have window sets for the Bowser PRR cabooses, EMD E & F units, etc. They may just have a round window to fit your model. http://www.laserkit.com/ Don't forget Merchandise Service handles AMB. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2004 09:27:17 -0500 From: dave pierson Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] Train control on PRR steam Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com >This is the 1940s. Transistors are yet to be invented, and vacuum > >tubes probably can't hold up to the rigors of RR operation. Vacuum tubes worked just fine, when suitably mounted and protected. They had been in use, tho not widely, since the 1920s. As to the age of the installation, ICC required 'large' RRs to have 'some' 'ATC' installed, from about 1920 on (I'd need to look it up...), This was an attempt, moderately successful, to 'force grow' the technology. best dave pierson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Atlas Train Master question Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 10:48:43 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com PRR-Listers: I am considering in purchasing one Atlas Train Master in PRR. There are = 2 types. One with a decoder with sound and one that is decoder ready but = with no sound. Depending on where one shops, there is about a $100 = difference between the two.=20 For those of you who have purchased the sound version, how good is it? = Is the sound pretty accurate? I have never heard a Train Master before. = Is it worth the extra $100? If you were to buy it all over again, would = you but the non-sound version? Thanks in advance! Ted Andrews P.S.: I am not an anti-sound modeller. I do have a number of BLI PRR = steam and diesel engines. It is just that I tend to now run them with = the sound off about half of the time. Sound is a neat feature, but I = tend to look at is as an option rather than a requirement. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Atlas Train Master question Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2004 11:54:37 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Ted, I had the chance to play with my friend's on his layout=20 this past week. I think the sound is good, but what's=20 better are they factory installed extras. These take=20 effect in both DC and DCC. Thee is momentum or inertia.=20 Also, when the engine is idling it actually "idles"=20 meaning the engine shakes eough to be noticable. I'd go=20 for it if it fir my era and location, but alas it did not. Regards, John "Ted Andrews" wrote: > PRR-Listers: >=20 > I am considering in purchasing one Atlas Train Master in=20 >PRR. There are 2 types. One with a decoder with sound and=20 >one that is decoder ready but with no sound. Depending on=20 >where one shops, there is about a $100 difference between=20 >the two.=20 >=20 >For those of you who have purchased the sound version,=20 >how good is it? Is the sound pretty accurate? I have=20 >never heard a Train Master before. Is it worth the extra=20 >$100? If you were to buy it all over again, would you but=20 >the non-sound version? >=20 > Thanks in advance! >=20 > Ted Andrews >=20 > P.S.: I am not an anti-sound modeller. I do have a=20 >number of BLI PRR steam and diesel engines. It is just=20 >that I tend to now run them with the sound off about half=20 >of the time. Sound is a neat feature, but I tend to look=20 >at is as an option rather than a requirement. >=20 >=20 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit=20 >http://lists.dsop.com. >=20 Designer, Modeler, Consultant Mount Vernon Shops York, PA www.mountvernonshops.com Specializing in O, HO & N Scale Structures for the Pennsy=20 modeler. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Northcreek28@aol.com Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 15:40:38 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: backup light on M1/M1a/M1b In vol. 22, no. 4 (winter, 1989) Keystone, a great centerspread photo shows a J1a with a large backup light on the tender. Were any M1/M1a/M1b engines so equipped? Also, in the same photo, I believe the device under the tender slope sheet to be a coal pusher and it does appear on other large PRR steam power. Was this essentially a "one size fits all" for six and eight-axle tenders? Thanks for any information. Robert Mohowski ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 16:28:32 -0600 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: backup light on M1/M1a/M1b Hi Bob--I don't recall seeing any photos of M1/M1a/M1b engines with a backup light on the tender, and a cursory look thru my bookshelves confirms that. Note that the large backup light was not standard for the J1. On p. 112 of "Trackside on the PRR in Central Pennsylvania" is a photo of two J1's eastbound on the Curve; one has the large light, the other a smaller light built into the rear of the tank. I have always assumed the device under the slope sheet to be a coal pusher, but I have only seen it on eight wheel tenders. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: [PRR] Re: backup light on M1/M1a/M1b Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 16:28:32 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-ELNK-Trace: 65fbc22f705d6e9971639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9408b50b17cf6418e5fa0a5f8f170c286e2350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 199.174.137.174 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi Bob--I don't recall seeing any photos of M1/M1a/M1b engines with a backup light on the tender, and a cursory look thru my bookshelves confirms that. Note that the large backup light was not standard for the J1. On p. 112 of "Trackside on the PRR in Central Pennsylvania" is a photo of two J1's eastbound on the Curve; one has the large light, the other a smaller light built into the rear of the tank. I have always assumed the device under the slope sheet to be a coal pusher, but I have only seen it on eight wheel tenders. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 21:54:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Details 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Walt, I think you would be safe in making the porthole opening 18 inches, give or take a tad. I measured the window we had cut for our N5c. It measured 18 3/4, probably 18 inch actual viewing area when the gasket is in place. I got word that a BM85 window is 18 inches as well and a B60 porthole is 19 inches where the ring holds the glass in place and the actual opening cut into the door is 20 inches. So you can decide if the little deviations in porthole measurements of several classes is a factor. I would go with 18 inch hole and leave it at that.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: [PRR] On30 Diagram Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 22:44:40 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Evening, Setting up the trains under the tree and encountered a problem. I'm looking for the assembly diagram for the Bachmann On30 passenger car. It is PRR (required content :-) ). The car is shorting out the oval and I need to get it apart to see what the problem is. The inside seat and floor assembly is hanging and I don't want to break it. Any assistance is greatly appreciated. Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: RE: [PRR] On30 Diagram Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 23:15:06 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <28968-41B52AA1-1575@storefull-3117.bay.webtv.net> Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Gary, Thanks for the quick contact. I did pop the tabs and got the body loose from the frame. There is a floor piece and the seats on the floor piece. There are also side tabs that have to be released. My problem is that one end of the floor is free from the frame, but the other end is not. It seems to be hanging up in the truck screw area of one end. I'm trying not to take a "bull in the china shop" approach to disassembly. I'm concerned that end of the floor is anchored by the truck screw. The other aspect of this is, that it's late and I'm tired, so I really don't want to screw it up out of fatigue and impatience; often deadly qualities when I model. Regards, Tom -----Original Message----- From: Gary Mittner [mailto:mittner@webtv.net] Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 10:59 PM To: Tom Mahon Subject: Re: [PRR] On30 Diagram Tom, I too have this set and I looked for the parts sheet/diagram sheet to help you out. There is none. I looked at the bottom of the car and I see 4 tabs that hold the floor on. I didn't try to take mine apart but these are the key for the floor removal. Probably a screw driver or something to push them to release the floor....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred in Vt." Subject: [PRR] interchange cars Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 23:37:33 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Listers, For those of you who are seeking cars for mail & express = trains > NYC to Chicago & St.Louis, there are some fine examples of NH = baggage cars available from the NH Society. Check in at this link; www.nhrhs.com; all info & ordering on line. If you model the Middle Divn.,Pitts. Divn., or the Corridor, = there is something you can use. Most are up-graded F&C kits, and are = worth the effort. Fred Freitas, New England Chapter Lining up projects for snow season! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 23:00:57 -0800 From: Peter Weiglin Subject: [PRR] New Haven baggage cars Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Fred Freitas wrote: For those of you who are seeking cars for mail & express trains > NYC to Chicago & St.Louis, there are some fine examples of NH baggage cars available from the NH Society. Check in at this link; www.nhrhs.com; all info & ordering on line. If you model the Middle Divn.,Pitts. Divn., or the Corridor, there is something you can use. Most are up-graded F&C kits, and are worth the effort. = = = = Great -- except that the New Haven Society's website is http://www.nhrhta.org/ and there's no immediate mention of baggage cars, until you go to the listing on the right and scroll it down to NHRHTA SALES ITEMS - NEW ITEMS. The list of Craftsman kits includes baggage cars. Internet sites are fun! Peter Weiglin San Mateo, CA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: MLiebeskin@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 13:17:18 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 12/07/04 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Tom, Having " been there, done that" I suspect the culprit is probably one or both trucks shorting-out against the chassis. One cure is to install a couple of washers on the truck mounting screw between the chassis and the truck itself. The main drawback with this fix is that you'll probably have to do the same to all the cars. Good luck. John Liebeskind ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 12/07/04 Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 17:44:40 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <27.66ff6fbb.2ee74dae@aol.com> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Thanks for the help. It was one of the wheel sets put in backward. Everything is running. Now to fix the light pick-up. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of MLiebeskin@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 1:17 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 12/07/04 Tom, Having " been there, done that" I suspect the culprit is probably one or both trucks shorting-out against the chassis. One cure is to install a couple of washers on the truck mounting screw between the chassis and the truck itself. The main drawback with this fix is that you'll probably have to do the same to all the cars. Good luck. John Liebeskind ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: [PRR] On30 Diagram Follow-up Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 18:02:23 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Thanks to all for the responses. Turned out to be one wheel set reversed. Duh! In any event, there are roof tabs that get popped to remove the roof. Then you can get inside the car to get at the electrical connections to the car light. The car body is released by two tabs at each end of the car, then press out the side tabs on the car body to release from the frame. Then the screws for the floor and seat section are accessible which then gets you to the wire that got the wheel pick ups. Hope I'm not repeating something here, but Jerry does archive and someone else may benefit. Tom Mahon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: [PRR] FW: On30 Diagram Follow-up Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 18:04:06 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Thanks to all for the responses. Turned out to be one wheel set reversed. Duh! In any event, there are roof tabs that get popped to remove the roof. Then you can get inside the car to get at the electrical connections to the car light. The car body is released by two tabs at each end of the car, then press out the side tabs on the car body to release from the frame. Then the screws for the floor and seat section are accessible which then gets you to the wire that got the wheel pick ups. Hope I'm not repeating something here, but Jerry does archive and someone else may benefit. Tom Mahon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 18:27:27 -0800 (PST) From: MICHAEL MERCURE Subject: [PRR] BLI Offerings From: EMACGIS@aol.com Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:09:03 EST Subject: [PRR] Hammerhead Info Needed X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Quite some time ago I started a project to build an N-Scale Hammerhead. I have searched everywhere I know of for the roof details on the high hood but have been unable to find pictures or drawings. Can anyone help me out with information, pictures or drawings? Please contact me direct at EMACGIS@aol.com or post to this site. Thanks in advance for any help you could provide. E.J. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Re: [PRR] Hammerhead Info Needed Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 23:35:36 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/621/Tue Dec 7 07:55:16 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.bluemoon.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com See pages 52-53 of Pennsy diesel Years V3. All 3 shots show the 8445. Brian J Carlson P.E. Cheektowaga NY ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 10:09 AM Subject: [PRR] Hammerhead Info Needed > Quite some time ago I started a project to build an N-Scale Hammerhead. I > have searched everywhere I know of for the roof details on the high hood but have > been unable to find pictures or drawings. Can anyone help me out with > information, pictures or drawings? Please contact me direct at EMACGIS@aol.com or > post to this site. Thanks in advance > for any help you could provide. E.J. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 02:34:08 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Hammerhead Info Needed X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com E. J., Withers Publishing make a great book that is very reasonable for under 25 bucks that cover the all the PRR ALCo Road switchers. The Hammerhead was an oddball one of a kind for the PRR, others were produced but it was a truly special purpose locomotive. I know that more modelers have produced this unit than ALCo produced RS-3s. Take careful note that the fuel tank was totally different... There are plenty of photos of this unit in PRR, as well it's after life on the LV. It is a lot of work to get it correct ... good luck and invest in the book, it will save you lots of time... Greg Martin brian@net.bluemoon.net writes: See pages 52-53 of Pennsy diesel Years V3. All 3 shots show the 8445. Brian J. Carlson PE Cheektowaga NY ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 10:09 AM Subject: [PRR] Hammerhead Info Needed > Quite some time ago I started a project to build a N-Scale Hammerhead. I have searched everywhere I know of for the roof details on the high hood but have been unable to find pictures or drawings. Can anyone help me out with information, pictures or drawings? Please contact me direct at EMACGIS@aol.com or > post to this site. Thanks in advance for any help you could provide. E. J. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Edmund Lee Burbage" Subject: [PRR] Locomotive Class Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 04:41:44 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Can anyone please tell me what Class Steam Locomotive was assigned PRR = Engine Number 1278 in 1946? Lee Burbage PRRT&HS 1943 leeswitchkey@mchsi.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: abendschein@comcast.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Locomotive Class Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 11:31:26 +0000 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 09:19:10 -0500 From: lheintz2@rochester.rr.com Subject: [PRR] Hammerhead info Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:21:53 -0600 (CST) Subject: [PRR] Stripping Branchline Pullmans From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Good Morning Folks, Just a quick note for those interested in repainting Branchline Pullmans. Having no use for a Pullman letter PENNSYLVANIA, I wanted to strip and repaint my 12-1 into a pre-divestiture Tuscan scheme. I tried stripping one side in denatured alcohol, and that sort of worked, although an overnight submersion resulted in only partial removal of the paint, with the gold striping proving particularly resistent. I then submerged the other side in Windex. Within 30 minutes, about 90% of the paint came off, mostly as little particles. A brisk brushing with an old toothbrush got the rest of the paint off. The windex also got all of the remaining paint off of the first side. Easy, cheap, pretty non-toxic (if you don't drink it!), seems like Windex is the way to go (and you cvan buy the BIG refills at WalMart etc.) Regards Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: [PRR] Dothan, AL, TRAIN SHOW this weekend. Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 11:03:09 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com List members, The Wiregrass Train Show and Sale will be held this weekend, Dec. 11 and 12, at the National Peanut Festival grounds on Highway 231 S. in Dothan, AL. Hours are 9 to 5 on Saturday and 10 to 4 on Sunday. Admission is $4.00 and kids are free. Santa Claus will be there for them. I will have my N scale Pennsylvania Railroad layout there, running mostly steam with possibly a little Diesel. I will be wearing my WGH Ambassador's pin and my Atlas Forum pin. Hope to see some of y'all from the Florida panhandle, South Alabama, and Southwest Georgia there. Gregg Mahlkov ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <326F8527-4A48-11D9-AF54-000A95C04372@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Reminder to PRRT&HS Members Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 20:09:52 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com The new issue of The Keystone is out. The mailer page has the membership renewal form for 2005 on the back. Don't throw it out! Don't set it aside to pay later! Get that check in the mail today! Remember the ruckus from last spring... low renewals were blamed on The Keystone Modeler being made available free of charge online. Take away that excuse before it comes up again! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Reminder to PRRT&HS Members Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 20:51:32 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <326F8527-4A48-11D9-AF54-000A95C04372@pennsyrr.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Re: The new issue of The Keystone is out. The mailer page has the membership renewal form for 2005 on the back. It's also the last page of the December Keystone Modeler. And will be the last page of the December e-NEWS on December 17th. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Edmund Lee Burbage" Subject: [PRR] Picture Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 02:56:41 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Could anyone help me find a picture of a E 6 Locomotive from the = Pennsylvania RR? leeswitchkey@mchsi.com Thank You Lee Burbage PRRT&HS 1943 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: "Group PRR" From: Bill Morlitz Subject: Re: [PRR] Picture Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 04:21:01 -0500 To: "Edmund Lee Burbage" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Dec 10, 2004, at 2:56 AM, Edmund Lee Burbage wrote: > Could anyone help me find a picture of a E 6 Locomotive from the > Pennsylvania RR? > > leeswitchkey@mchsi.com > > > Thank You > > Lee Burbage > PRRT&HS 1943 Lee, Go to Google and type in "PRR E6 Atlantic 460", I came up with 38 different websites of which more than half have pictures. NorhtEast Rails has about 30 pictures alone. Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] Picture Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:53:43 -0600 To: PRR talk X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Dec 10, 2004, at 1:56 AM, Edmund Lee Burbage wrote: > Could anyone help me find a picture of a E 6 Locomotive from the > Pennsylvania RR? > Thank You > > Lee Burbage > PRRT&HS 1943 Lee, Look at the Northeast Railfan site. They have a number of rosters with a huge number of photos. PRR E type steamers, including the E6 are at http://www.northeast.railfan.net/prr_steam3.html Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:21:46 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PRR Eastern Region Update & Invitation From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <1D3BB34A-4AE9-11D9-9DA6-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com After several years of setbacks requiring my time elsewhere, my N scale PRR Eastern Region is going to be getting a lot more attention real soon. In the coming weeks I will be completing the Crew's Lounge -- the wife would call it a Rec Room -- which has been a pre-requisite to regular work sessions on the layout. As of the first of the year, the PRR ER will have weekly work sessions. Sessions are on Wednesday evenings, subject to change once full operating sessions begin. Though construction of benchwork and RoW will continue for another 12-18 months, the first point-to-point operations will be possible in the early spring. Philadelphia/Baltimore/Reading staging connects to Harrisburg which will be connected at Rockville back into Sunbury staging. I can detour trains up the Susquehanna Division in lieu of the Middle/Pittsburgh divisions to allow about half of the planned trains to run until the upper deck is completed later. A few switching areas will also be ready for use. The layout is DCC (Digitrax) and will use a car card system for locals. The many through freights will not use cards. The layout is expected to be open and running for the PRRT&HS annual meeting open house tour in May. Some aspects of its design and construction will be featured in Kalmbach's "Model Railroad Planning 2005", due out in March. With the Crew's Lounge and the layout's lower level done, there is much more room for moving around so I am opening the doors for additional crew. Potential crew need not have N scale experience; I've converted many HO guys!!! I'm located just off I-83 about half way between York and Harrisburg (Pa.). If you are in the general area (30 mile radius) and would like to become a REGULAR for work and operating sessions, please contact me off-list. Thank you. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 19:06:41 -0500 Subject: [PRR] T1 Duplex starring in new movie. MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hey Guys, There is a new movie out called "A Series of Unfortunate Events" which features a scene with a PRR T1 about to hit a car at a grade crossing. There's a quick shot of the T1 in the tv commercials. Also the T1 has a five chime airhorn. I guess Hollywood didn't like the whistle. I don't know what scale or what type of model make used in the movie. You can see the Keystone number plate but the number is hard to read. Keep an eye out for the tv ads for this movie. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:10:01 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] BLI K4s and Digitrax Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 19:40:15 -0500 From: Godfrey Hall Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 Duplex starring in new movie. Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com zootowerprr@webtv.net wrote: Hey Guys, There is a new movie out called "A Series of Unfortunate Events" which features a scene with a PRR T1 about to hit a car at a grade crossing.I don't know what scale or what type of model was used in the movie. Dave Hopson Dave - This is a computer generated image, the same as the train in " Polar Express" - godfrey hall ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 19:58:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 Duplex starring in new movie. MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Thanks Godfrey, There is a couple of shots showing the side of the T1 and the front truck is shaking as it goes down the track, so I thought it was a model. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 19:58:05 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] T1 Duplex starring in new movie. Thanks Godfrey, There is a couple of shots showing the side of the T1 and the front truck is shaking as it goes down the track, so I thought it was a model. Dave ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 19:06:41 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] T1 Duplex starring in new movie. Hey Guys, There is a new movie out called "A Series of Unfortunate Events" which features a scene with a PRR T1 about to hit a car at a grade crossing. There's a quick shot of the T1 in the tv commercials. Also the T1 has a five chime airhorn. I guess Hollywood didn't like the whistle. I don't know what scale or what type of model make used in the movie. You can see the Keystone number plate but the number is hard to read. Keep an eye out for the tv ads for this movie. Dave Hopson ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 23:38:33 EST Subject: [PRR] Altoona Builders Plate X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Correct assumption, Altoona applied the oval builder's plate to the smoke box from day one? Was the Pennsy building locos at another location prior to the Altoona shops? Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 22:17:13 -0500 From: Rod Schaffter Subject: Re: [PRR] Picture X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0450-1, 12/09/2004), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Bill speaketh... > On Dec 10, 2004, at 2:56 AM, Edmund Lee Burbage wrote: >>> Could anyone help me find a picture of a E 6 Locomotive from the >>> Pennsylvania RR? >>> > Lee, > > Go to Google and type in "PRR E6 Atlantic > 460", I came up with 38 different websites of which more than half have > pictures. > > NorhtEast Rails has > about 30 pictures alone. When I saw Lee's quetion I thought "the Pennsy didn't have anything older than E7s, didn't they?" DOH!! I guess I'll get a well deserved lump of coal in my stocking this Christmas! Cheers, Rod Schaffter -- "1918's now just another year we won the World Series." -- Red Sox GM Theo Epstein. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Cprrboss@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 22:35:50 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 12/11/04 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 12/11/04 1:12:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > I've converted many HO guys!!! > HA! Fat chance. OK, so I can't see the small stuff. That doesn't mean I'm small minded. BTW, you have the first eastbound local Sat night. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] Z74 #7503 Francis L Suter, aka Harrisburg Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 09:15:26 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Listers, Can anyone tell me what they know about the current=20 ownership of fromer PRR business car #7503 "Harrisburg",=20 now known as the Francis L. Suter. From what i've heard=20 the current owner is in jail in Lancaster County. I ask=20 because a good friend is interested in purchasing a PV car=20 and liked the lines, and look of this particular car. Thanks for any help. -John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Edmund Lee Burbage" Subject: [PRR] Fw: Useful information/terminology update (jailbreak is my Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 09:22:40 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jay McCarthy=20 To: Craig Hille ; Edmund Lee Burbage ; John Sharp=20 Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 8:44 AM Subject: Useful information/terminology update (jailbreak is my = favorite)] We've all been there but don't like to admit it. We've all kicked back = in our cubicles and suddenly felt something brewing down below. As much = as we try to convince ourselves otherwise, the WORK POOP is inevitable. = For those who hate pooping at work, following is the Survival Guide for = taking a dump at work.=20 CROP DUSTING=20 When farting, you walk briskly around the office so the smell is not in = your area and everyone else gets a whiff but doesn't know where it came = from. Be careful when you do this. Do not stop until the full fart has = been expelled. Walk an extra 30 feet to make sure the smell has left = your pants.=20 FLY BY=20 The act of scouting out a bathroom before pooping. Walk in and check for = other poopers. If there are others in the bathroom, leave and come back = again. Be careful not to become a FREQUENT FLYER. People may become = suspicious if they catch you constantly going into the bathroom.=20 ESCAPEE=20 A fart that slips out while taking a leak at the urinal or forcing a = poop in a stall. This is usually accompanied by a sudden wave of = embarrassment. If you release an escapee, do not acknowledge it. Pretend = it did not happen. If you are standing next to the farter in the urinal, = pretend you did not hear it. No one likes an escapee. It is = uncomfortable for all involved.=20 Making a joke or laughing makes both parties feel uneasy.=20 JAILBREAK=20 When forcing a poop, several farts slip out at a machine gun pace. This = is usually a side effect of diarrhea or a hangover. If this should = happen, do not panic. Remain in the stall until everyone has left the = bathroom to spare everyone the awkwardness of what just occurred.=20 COURTESY FLUSH=20 The act of flushing the toilet the instant the poop hits the water. This = reduces the amount of air time the poop has to stink up the bathroom. = This can help you avoid being caught doing the WALK OF SHAME.=20 WALK OF SHAME=20 Walking from the stall, to the sink, to the door after you have just = stunk up the bathroom. This can be a very uncomfortable moment if = someone walks in and busts you. As with farts, it is best to pretend = that the smell does not exist. Can be avoided with the use of the = COURTESY FLUSH.=20 OUT OF THE CLOSET POOPER=20 A colleague who poops at work and is damn proud of it. You will often = see an Out Of The Closet Pooper enter the bathroom with a newspaper or = magazine under his or her arm. Always look around the office for the Out = Of The Closet Pooper before entering the bathroom.=20 THE POOPING FRIENDS NETWORK (PFN)=20 A group of co-workers who band together to ensure emergency pooping goes = off without incident. This group can help you to monitor the whereabouts = of Out Of The Closet Poopers, and identify SAFE HAVENS.=20 SAFE HAVENS=20 A seldom-used bathroom somewhere in the building where you can least = expect visitors. Try floors that are predominantly of the opposite sex. = This will reduce the odds of a pooper of your sex entering the bathroom. = TURD BURGLAR=20 Someone who does not realize that you are in the stall and tries to = force the door open. This is one of the most shocking and vulnerable = moments that can occur when taking a poop at work. If this occurs, = remain in the stall until the Turd Burglar leaves. This way you will = avoid all uncomfortable eye contact.=20 CAMO-COUGH=20 A phony cough that alerts all new entrants into the bathroom that you = are in a stall. This can be used to cover-up a WATERMELON, or to alert = potential Turd Burglars. Very effective when used in conjunction with an = ASTAIRE.=20 ASTAIRE=20 A subtle toe-tap that is used to alert potential Turd Burglars that you = are occupying a stall. This will remove all doubt that the stall is = occupied. If you hear an Astaire, leave the bathroom immediately so the = pooper can poop in peace.=20 WATERMELON=20 A poop that creates a loud splash when hitting the toilet water. This is = also an embarrassing incident. If you feel a Watermelon coming on, = create a diversion. See CAMO-COUGH.=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Note: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain = confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. The City = of Coconut Creek reserves the right to monitor all e-mail communications = through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, = except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized = to state them to be the views of any such entity. This message has been scanned by Mail Marshal! Thank You.=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 09:36:37 -0500 Subject: LISTMASTER -- Re: [PRR] Fw: Useful information/terminology update From: Jerry Britton In-Reply-To: <006a01c4e11f$34bc2dc0$4a55db0c@mchsi.com> Message-Id: <6551CDDE-4D14-11D9-ADBF-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Listers: I apologize for the message recently posted by Mr. Burbage. He has been notified that it was inappropriate content for the PRR-talk list (even if list traffic is light) and will be removed from the archives. This list is not moderated, which speeds delivery of posts. However, if content becomes objectionable on a regular basis, moderation would need to be considered. Thank you. ---------------------------------------- Listmaster Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] Fw: Useful information/terminology update (jailbreak is my favorite)] Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 08:36:41 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] Fw: Useful information/terminology update (jailbreak is my favorite)] Thread-Index: AcThIL9WV6eTc6B+SdWe/V5jwSDdAQAAFEUg From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: "Edmund Lee Burbage" , "Allan Socea" , "Bob Lewis" , "Charles Craibe" , "Charles Tarter" , "Clay Spurrier" , "Deloris Burbage" , "Ed Retzer" , "George Burbage" , "George Stevenson" , "Group PRR" , "Herb Kern" , "James Trimble" , "Jerry Giaglio" , "Jerry McDonald" , "John Bates" , "Joseph Santuchi" , "Karl Burkhardt" , "Ken Bontemps" , "Mary Jane Megee" , "Phil Moseley" , "Ray Burbage" , "Robert Peters" Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com This message has no business being sendt to members on this list. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Edmund Lee Burbage Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 8:23 AM To: Allan Socea; Bob Lewis; Charles Craibe; Charles Tarter; Clay Spurrier; Deloris Burbage; Ed Retzer; George Burbage; George Stevenson; Group PRR; Herb Kern; James Trimble; Jerry Giaglio; Jerry McDonald; John Bates; Joseph Santuchi; Karl Burkhardt; Ken Bontemps; Mary Jane Megee; Phil Moseley; Ray Burbage; Robert Peters; Steze Zabko; Tammy Collins Subject: [PRR] Fw: Useful information/terminology update (jailbreak is my favorite)] ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jay McCarthy=20 To: Craig Hille ; Edmund Lee Burbage ; John Sharp=20 Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 8:44 AM Subject: Useful information/terminology update (jailbreak is my = favorite)] We've all been there but don't like to admit it. We've all kicked back = in our cubicles and suddenly felt something brewing down below. As much = as we try to convince ourselves otherwise, the WORK POOP is inevitable. = For those who hate pooping at work, following is the Survival Guide for = taking a dump at work.=20 CROP DUSTING=20 When farting, you walk briskly around the office so the smell is not in = your area and everyone else gets a whiff but doesn't know where it came = from. Be careful when you do this. Do not stop until the full fart has = been expelled. Walk an extra 30 feet to make sure the smell has left = your pants.=20 FLY BY=20 The act of scouting out a bathroom before pooping. Walk in and check for = other poopers. If there are others in the bathroom, leave and come back = again. Be careful not to become a FREQUENT FLYER. People may become = suspicious if they catch you constantly going into the bathroom.=20 ESCAPEE=20 A fart that slips out while taking a leak at the urinal or forcing a = poop in a stall. This is usually accompanied by a sudden wave of = embarrassment. If you release an escapee, do not acknowledge it. Pretend = it did not happen. If you are standing next to the farter in the urinal, = pretend you did not hear it. No one likes an escapee. It is = uncomfortable for all involved.=20 Making a joke or laughing makes both parties feel uneasy.=20 JAILBREAK=20 When forcing a poop, several farts slip out at a machine gun pace. This = is usually a side effect of diarrhea or a hangover. If this should = happen, do not panic. Remain in the stall until everyone has left the = bathroom to spare everyone the awkwardness of what just occurred.=20 COURTESY FLUSH=20 The act of flushing the toilet the instant the poop hits the water. This = reduces the amount of air time the poop has to stink up the bathroom. = This can help you avoid being caught doing the WALK OF SHAME.=20 WALK OF SHAME=20 Walking from the stall, to the sink, to the door after you have just = stunk up the bathroom. This can be a very uncomfortable moment if = someone walks in and busts you. As with farts, it is best to pretend = that the smell does not exist. Can be avoided with the use of the = COURTESY FLUSH.=20 OUT OF THE CLOSET POOPER=20 A colleague who poops at work and is damn proud of it. You will often = see an Out Of The Closet Pooper enter the bathroom with a newspaper or = magazine under his or her arm. Always look around the office for the Out = Of The Closet Pooper before entering the bathroom.=20 THE POOPING FRIENDS NETWORK (PFN)=20 A group of co-workers who band together to ensure emergency pooping goes = off without incident. This group can help you to monitor the whereabouts = of Out Of The Closet Poopers, and identify SAFE HAVENS.=20 SAFE HAVENS=20 A seldom-used bathroom somewhere in the building where you can least = expect visitors. Try floors that are predominantly of the opposite sex. = This will reduce the odds of a pooper of your sex entering the bathroom. = TURD BURGLAR=20 Someone who does not realize that you are in the stall and tries to = force the door open. This is one of the most shocking and vulnerable = moments that can occur when taking a poop at work. If this occurs, = remain in the stall until the Turd Burglar leaves. This way you will = avoid all uncomfortable eye contact.=20 CAMO-COUGH=20 A phony cough that alerts all new entrants into the bathroom that you = are in a stall. This can be used to cover-up a WATERMELON, or to alert = potential Turd Burglars. Very effective when used in conjunction with an = ASTAIRE.=20 ASTAIRE=20 A subtle toe-tap that is used to alert potential Turd Burglars that you = are occupying a stall. This will remove all doubt that the stall is = occupied. If you hear an Astaire, leave the bathroom immediately so the = pooper can poop in peace.=20 WATERMELON=20 A poop that creates a loud splash when hitting the toilet water. This is = also an embarrassing incident. If you feel a Watermelon coming on, = create a diversion. See CAMO-COUGH.=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Note: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain = confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. The City = of Coconut Creek reserves the right to monitor all e-mail communications = through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, = except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized = to state them to be the views of any such entity. This message has been scanned by Mail Marshal! Thank You.=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: MLiebeskin@aol.com Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 09:47:23 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 12/10/04 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Thank you for the Windex tip; it's a time abd money saver. John Liebeskind ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Edmund Lee Burbage" Subject: [PRR] Apoligy Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 12:04:30 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I have apoligized to all those who received the message from me. I hit = the wrong button by mistake. I am sure there isn't a one of us who hasn't mad a mistake in life!! Again I truly apoligize to everyone. E L. BURBAGE BMCM USCG-Ret Retired Railroader also ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] PRR F39 Flatcar Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 12:55:43 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Listers, Yesterday I had some time to burn around York before=20 preeping for the railroad club show so i drove over to the=20 old tower to take some detail pictures for my own=20 collection. There's an old flatcar that appeared to be=20 Ex-Pennsy to me so I checked it out, which was 100 feet or=20 so away. It's been whiteluined and purchased by a foundry=20 across the tracks from the tower. One side had been=20 painted over so you coudln't trace any heritage. Upon=20 closer inspection of the other side I gleaned some good=20 news. The class first, appears to be F39a. CR #70506, the=20 trucks are 3F3T4 buckeye's, w/ timkin roller bearings. One=20 of the trucks had PC #77?517, the trucks had a castinmg=20 number of PRR X-18819-A, and X-18819-B. I'll post pictures=20 tonight, but can anyone find me an original PRR number for=20 this car? The car is in bad shape, most of the wood decking is off=20 the car, though with a new deck it could be used. It's in=20 an isolated spur from the foundry. Actually the spur is=20 part of the old main line of the Northern Central. Thanks in advance. Regards, John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 15:30:50 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Re: Z74 #7503 Francis L Suter, aka Harrisburg From: John Sheets From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Altoona Builders Plate Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 18:54:53 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Evan and list, The Pittsburgh Fort Wayne & Chicago had a locomotive erecting shop at Fort Wayne, Indiana, that built locomotives for Pennsylvania Lines West until about the turn of the 20th century. One still exists as Clinchfield No. 1 at the B&O Museum. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 11:38 PM Subject: [PRR] Altoona Builders Plate > Correct assumption, Altoona applied the oval builder's plate to the smoke > box from day one? > > Was the Pennsy building locos at another location prior to the Altoona > shops? > > Evan Leisey > RCT&HS 346 > PRRT&HS 7487 > PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 > CNJ 2003 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 21:54:05 -0500 From: Ken Meyer Subject: [PRR] Automobile Boxcars Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Does anyone know of a book that talks about the shipping of automobiles in the 30s and 40s prior to tri-levels? Ken Meyer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: [PRR] Altoona Freight Car Movement Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 20:47:57 -0600 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com List, I am recreating the yards in Altoona and trying to understand some of the various tracks. I'm hoping some of you that used to work there can help me. On the south side of the tracks in Altoona there are "Freight Transfer Platforms". What kinds of fright were transfered here? LCL? How does the work there differ from the freight house on the north side of the tracks? Thanks in advance. Ron ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ken Meyer Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 21:54:05 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Automobile Boxcars Does anyone know of a book that talks about the shipping of automobiles in the 30s and 40s prior to tri-levels? Ken Meyer ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Automobile Boxcars Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 22:20:03 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Ken, I can't tell you of any literature off the top of my head,=20 though in that era when it came to the PRR, X31's and=20 X32's were used in automobile service as lettered. From=20 what I do know, specialised racks were made for carrying=20 cars. During WW2, Willys jeeps were hauled in "turtle=20 roof" X31f boxcars. The roof was rasied to accomidate the=20 shipping of Jeeps on end. I've seen someone model this=20 before in HO. If I find anything i'll let you know. Best Regards, John Ken Meyer wrote: > Does anyone know of a book that talks about the shipping=20 >of automobiles in the 30s and 40s prior to tri-levels? > Ken Meyer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Hough " Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 21:38:19 -0600 Subject: [PRR] I have Photos of Valparaiso Roundhouse From: MLiebeskin@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 08:52:29 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 12/14/04 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Of what particular relevance is "Useful information........." to PRR-Talk? I think I can take a joke as well as the next fellow but I think this inappropriate. Just my opinion. John Liebeskind ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 09:11:04 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Division Accounting Maps Posted From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Thanks to donor from the list, Keystone Crossings now has a set of early division accounting maps on its Maps page... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/maps/accountingmaps.ws4d These maps are believed to be circa 1920. If anyone familiar with the names of the divisions from early times can pin the date down more accurately, please let me know. My knowledge on the subject starts at 1941. Related, I am still looking for a set of 1951 and 1956 maps for scanning -- or for someone to scan and send me the files. I acquired a set of 1958 maps, which will be scanned at some point. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bruce Smith Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 08:47:30 -0600 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Automobile Boxcars On Dec 13, 2004, at 8:54 PM, Ken Meyer wrote: > Does anyone know of a book that talks about the shipping of > automobiles in the 30s and 40s prior to tri-levels? Ken, I guess the first question is, what do you want to know? I'm not sure of a book reference, but perhaps some of us can help answer specific questions that you might have. Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-Talk , PRR Fax From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] Automobile Boxcars Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 08:47:30 -0600 To: Ken Meyer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Dec 13, 2004, at 8:54 PM, Ken Meyer wrote: > Does anyone know of a book that talks about the shipping of > automobiles in the 30s and 40s prior to tri-levels? Ken, I guess the first question is, what do you want to know? I'm not sure of a book reference, but perhaps some of us can help answer specific questions that you might have. Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:51:11 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Division Accounting Maps Posted X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Jerry, Middle Div ETT No.9 - 4/28/29,G.O.No. 902 -- 4/28/29 Eff. 12:01am, Wed, May 1.1929, The Tyrone Div will be abolished. This at least says that the maps are early 1929 or before. I have a set in a book( with the cover reversed that says Jan.1,1929, with some in very rough cond) that agree exactly with the page numbers shown on the site. I can not access the maps,for some reason they will not come up. The article on the Cambria & Clearfield in RAILS NORTHEAST-Jan 1980,does not have anything referring dates for the abolishment of the Cresson Div, just everything leading up to the formation of it. Middle Div ETT No.3(4-25-26) shows the Tipton Br. Middle Div ETT No.5(4-24-27) no longer carries the Tipton Br. There are no G.O.'s to check. The AD 80 maps I have show the Tipton Br. This may,or may not, be some indication of a time frame of approx.early 1926,but this is just my opinion not having ETT No.4. Pat McKinney ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 18:20:16 +0100 From: "peter@bagge.se" Subject: Re: [PRR] Division Accounting Maps Posted Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com The maps are interesting and useful. It is fine, that competitors' lines are included. Are the files available somewhere as one single .zip-file? Emil Bagge ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:07:46 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Division Accounting Maps Posted From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Tuesday, December 14, 2004, at 12:20 PM, peter@bagge.se wrote: > The maps are interesting and useful. It is fine, that > competitors' lines are included. Are the files available > somewhere as one single .zip-file? No. But I have had requests to downsample them. They were provided and posted "as is", at 72 dpi. I will decrease their sizes. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:20:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Division Accounting Maps Posted From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Tuesday, December 14, 2004, at 11:51 AM, PKMac101@aol.com wrote: > Middle Div ETT No.9 - 4/28/29,G.O.No. 902 -- 4/28/29 > Eff. 12:01am, Wed, May 1.1929, The Tyrone Div will be abolished. > > This at least says that the maps are early 1929 or before. I have a > set in a > book( with the cover reversed that says Jan.1,1929, with some in very > rough > cond) that agree exactly with the page numbers shown on the site. I > can not > access the maps,for some reason they will not come up. > The article on the Cambria & Clearfield in RAILS NORTHEAST-Jan > 1980,does > not have anything referring dates for the abolishment of the Cresson > Div, just > everything leading up to the formation of it. > Middle Div ETT No.3(4-25-26) shows the Tipton Br. Middle Div ETT > No.5(4-24-27) no longer carries the Tipton Br. There are no G.O.'s to > check. The AD 80 > maps I have show the Tipton Br. This may,or may not, be some > indication of a > time frame of approx.early 1926,but this is just my opinion not having > ETT > No.4. Thanks, Pat, I've added this info to the page. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 15:45:23 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Reading's Capitol Interlocking (Harrisburg) From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <139C9C30-4E11-11D9-8DFB-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Fred Wertz of the Harrisburg Chapter NRHS did a PowerPoint presentation on the Reading line at Harrisburg, inclusive of 59 slides which show construction of the new bridges through the area in the early 1920's. Working with Fred, we've converted the PowerPoint presentation into a web-based slide show which you can view on the chapter's web site at http://nrhs-hbg.pennsyrr.com . The slide show lacks some polish -- slide names, notes, etc. -- but Fred plans updates. I am posting this to the PRR list as well, as there are numerous slides which show PRR rolling stock of the era, including a Union Line box car. I was very pleased to find a few shots of the PRR's Harrisburg freight station! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:35:46 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Division Accounting Maps Posted, an early bound on the Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 19:55:13 -0500 From: Ken Meyer Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Automobile Boxcars Bruce, The PRR had an Automobile Warehouse located in Mt. Vernon yard in Baltimore, MD. Was this normal for other railroads to have a warehouse? Ken Bruce Smith wrote: > On Dec 13, 2004, at 8:54 PM, Ken Meyer wrote: > > > Does anyone know of a book that talks about the shipping of > > automobiles in the 30s and 40s prior to tri-levels? > > Ken, > > I guess the first question is, what do you want to know? I'm not sure > of a book reference, but perhaps some of us can help answer specific > questions that you might have. > > Regards > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith > Auburn, AL > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin > Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > --------------030406020705060905060307 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------060303000609020809080302" --------------060303000609020809080302 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Bruce,
The PRR had an Automobile Warehouse located in Mt. Vernon yard in Baltimore, MD.
Was this normal for other railroads to have a warehouse?
Ken

Bruce Smith wrote:
On Dec 13, 2004, at 8:54 PM, Ken Meyer wrote:

> Does anyone know of a book that talks about the shipping of
> automobiles in the 30s and 40s prior to tri-levels?

Ken,

I guess the first question is, what do you want to know?  I'm not sure
of a book reference, but perhaps some of us can help answer specific
questions that you might have.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin
Franklin
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--------------060303000609020809080302-- --------------030406020705060905060307-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 17:46:49 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Division Accounting Maps, early and recent bounds on From: Ken Meyer Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 19:55:13 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Automobile Boxcars Bruce, The PRR had an Automobile Warehouse located in Mt. Vernon yard in Baltimore, MD. Was this normal for other railroads to have a warehouse? Ken Bruce Smith wrote: > On Dec 13, 2004, at 8:54 PM, Ken Meyer wrote: > > > Does anyone know of a book that talks about the shipping of > > automobiles in the 30s and 40s prior to tri-levels? > > Ken, > > I guess the first question is, what do you want to know? I'm not sure > of a book reference, but perhaps some of us can help answer specific > questions that you might have. > > Regards > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith > Auburn, AL > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin > Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] Division Accounting Maps Posted Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 21:32:22 -0500 To: PRR-talk X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Dec 14, 2004, at 1:07 PM, Jerry Britton wrote: > On Tuesday, December 14, 2004, at 12:20 PM, peter@bagge.se wrote: > >> The maps are interesting and useful. It is fine, that >> competitors' lines are included. Are the files available >> somewhere as one single .zip-file? > > No. But I have had requests to downsample them. They were provided and > posted "as is", at 72 dpi. I will decrease their sizes. I must correct myself... they were at 150 dpi! I cropped them tighter, eliminating extra space outside the border of the map, and downsampled them to 100 dpi. The end result was a size reduction > 50%. I apologize... these maps were heavily requested tonight and I interrupted several downloads as I was working. Sorry! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 23:03:43 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Division Accounting Maps, early and recent bounds on X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Bob, We know it was before May1,1929 because that is when the Tyrone Div. was abolished. Looking further,the book has the Richmond Div which was abolished May1,1928. Also found that the Tipton RR was dissolved June 8,1927. So the field is narrowed to between late 1923 to early 1927. Pat ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 07:00:06 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Date bounds on Division maps,, getting narrower Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 10:29:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Division Accounting Maps, early and recent bounds on From: Jerry Britton In-Reply-To: <7B5A5943-4E8F-11D9-AEBB-000A95C04372@pennsyrr.com> Message-Id: <154F9D08-4EAE-11D9-8F25-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com The era of the maps has been narrowed to AFTER 1923 and BEFORE 5/1/28. Clues to this range are shown on the Accounting Maps page, thanks to Pat McKinney and Bob Nezlof. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bruce Smith Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:38:54 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Automobile Boxcars On Dec 14, 2004, at 6:55 PM, Ken Meyer wrote: > Bruce, > The PRR had an Automobile Warehouse located in Mt. Vernon yard in > Baltimore, MD. > Was this normal for other railroads to have a warehouse? Hmmm, that's a good question! I would expect (but I am guessing here) that the warehouse in Baltimore was for the receipt of automobiles and subsequent distribution to dealerships. Thus you would probably only expect to find them in larger cities. Smaller cities and towns would have taken delivery of automobile boxcars on team tracks, usually equipped with a platform or ramp to the side to allow unloading. The contents of one boxcar, 4 to 6 autos, might be consigned to a single dealer, or to multiple dealers. Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-Talk , PRR@yahoogroups.com From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Automobile Boxcars Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:38:54 -0600 To: Ken Meyer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Dec 14, 2004, at 6:55 PM, Ken Meyer wrote: > Bruce, > The PRR had an Automobile Warehouse located in Mt. Vernon yard in > Baltimore, MD. > Was this normal for other railroads to have a warehouse? Hmmm, that's a good question! I would expect (but I am guessing here) that the warehouse in Baltimore was for the receipt of automobiles and subsequent distribution to dealerships. Thus you would probably only expect to find them in larger cities. Smaller cities and towns would have taken delivery of automobile boxcars on team tracks, usually equipped with a platform or ramp to the side to allow unloading. The contents of one boxcar, 4 to 6 autos, might be consigned to a single dealer, or to multiple dealers. Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 10:44:48 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Division Accounting Maps, early and recent bounds on From: Jerry Britton In-Reply-To: <154F9D08-4EAE-11D9-8F25-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> Message-Id: <409A009A-4EB0-11D9-8F25-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Wednesday, December 15, 2004, at 10:29 AM, Jerry Britton wrote: > The era of the maps has been narrowed to AFTER 1923 and BEFORE 5/1/28. > > Clues to this range are shown on the Accounting Maps page, thanks to > Pat McKinney and Bob Nezlof. How quickly things change... These maps are now believed to be AFTER 5/14/24 (probably early 1925) and BEFORE 6/8/27. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 08:03:19 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Division Accounting Maps, early and recent bounds on Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:14:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Division Accounting Maps, early and recent bounds on From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Wednesday, December 15, 2004, at 11:03 AM, robert netzlof wrote: > So, early bound is after 12/10/24. That far into December 1924, one > might as well say 1925. Page has been updated. We've got it narrowed down to a 30 month window... not bad!!! Still looking for a set of 1951 maps!!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:38:47 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Division Accounting Maps, early and recent bounds on X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Jerry and the List, I would like to say THANK YOU to Chris Baer. His General Chronology of the PRR on the PRRT&HS Philadelphia Chapter web site is an outstanding piece of historical information and has helped enormously on this Div. Acct Map thread. You can find almost anything you want for the years he has done so far and it is a continuing process. I did not know it was there until Bob Netzlof mentioned it. Thank you Bob for that. Pat McKinney ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:42:37 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] Division Accounting Maps, Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Good work on the dates...I had them narrowed to after 1920 to 1929 based on the Delmarva information, which is all I know/knew. I turned these turned up on e-Bay via a standing search for "Delmarva" items. They were mislabeled/listed by the seller who didn't know what they were. Neither did I until they showed up in the mail. I hope everyone enjoys them and has a Merry Christmas, chanukah, Kwanza and/or Festivus! Jim McDaniel in Delmarva, where there is a wee bit of snow this morning. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:13:34 -0500 From: Robert Netzlof Subject: [PRR] Speaking of the PRR Chronology... Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com One thing there is bothering me. It seems to me that some time ago I found an item regarding board approval of a connection from the Conemaugh Division near Livermore to the BR&P Ridge Branch below Jacksonville PA. Since the time I saw that, if I really did see that, Chris has reorganized his .pdf's. Since then, I've been trying to find the reference and have been coming up dry. It may be in one of the years which was there and now isn't. It may be a figment of my imagination. It may be that I misread something. Does anyone have any data on such a proposal? As I recall, the date on what I saw was in the 19-teens and pre-WW1, but I could be misremembering (which is why I've been trying to find it again). -- Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Division Accounting Maps, early and recent bounds on Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:08:29 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Re: General Chronology of the PRR on the PRRT&HS Philadelphia Chapter web site This is a fantastic resource that Chris is not completely finished with yet. It is periodically updated when new information is uncovered. Now one can realize one of the many reasons why we honored Chris during our annual meeting in 2002 and made him a lifetime Society member. Actually the chronology is on the National's site and is also linked to the PHL Chapter site. This may be discerned from the logo colors - the national banners carry white lettering on a "Tuscan" back ground, the PHL Chapter banners carry letter lettering on a red background> Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Automobile Boxcars Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:16:31 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com List, I need some more information on this. I was the Sales Representative for the PRR that covered Mt. Vernon Yard in 1965-66. At that time the only structure there was the Pennsylvania Produce Terminal which was built in 1931. There was a depressed track from which automobiles could be unloaded from end-door boxcars and wheeled machinery from flatcars, but no buildings except the PPT. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Smith" To: "Ken Meyer" Cc: "PRR-Talk" ; Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Automobile Boxcars > > On Dec 14, 2004, at 6:55 PM, Ken Meyer wrote: > >> Bruce, >> The PRR had an Automobile Warehouse located in Mt. Vernon yard in >> Baltimore, MD. >> Was this normal for other railroads to have a warehouse? > > Hmmm, that's a good question! I would expect (but I am guessing here) > that the warehouse in Baltimore was for the receipt of automobiles and > subsequent distribution to dealerships. Thus you would probably only > expect to find them in larger cities. Smaller cities and towns would have > taken delivery of automobile boxcars on team tracks, usually equipped with > a platform or ramp to the side to allow unloading. The contents of one > boxcar, 4 to 6 autos, might be consigned to a single dealer, or to > multiple dealers. > > Regards > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith > Auburn, AL > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin > Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Subject: RE: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Automobile Boxcars Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:03:17 -0600 Message-ID: <2261A19CD8CAD8449EFD62CAA311A7485C5C89@EXCHANGE.herzogcompanies.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Automobile Boxcars Thread-Index: AcTi66iplWuMoz3aRteatOO7XXJteQABf3Iw From: "Bill Volkmer" To: "Gregg Mahlkov" , "Bruce Smith" , "Ken Meyer" Cc: "PRR-Talk" , Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com There used to be an "urban legend" of sorts in Altoona, when I worked there that there was a string of automobile boxcars on the scrap line for several years, and when they finally met the torch, one of them contained a load of seven year old Studebakers! Makes a good story anyway. Bill Volkmer -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Gregg Mahlkov Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 4:17 PM To: Bruce Smith; Ken Meyer Cc: PRR-Talk; PRR@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Automobile Boxcars List, I need some more information on this. I was the Sales Representative for the=20 PRR that covered Mt. Vernon Yard in 1965-66. At that time the only structure=20 there was the Pennsylvania Produce Terminal which was built in 1931. There=20 was a depressed track from which automobiles could be unloaded from end-door=20 boxcars and wheeled machinery from flatcars, but no buildings except the PPT. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Bruce Smith" To: "Ken Meyer" Cc: "PRR-Talk" ; Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Automobile Boxcars > > On Dec 14, 2004, at 6:55 PM, Ken Meyer wrote: > >> Bruce, >> The PRR had an Automobile Warehouse located in Mt. Vernon yard in=20 >> Baltimore, MD. >> Was this normal for other railroads to have a warehouse? > > Hmmm, that's a good question! I would expect (but I am guessing here) > that the warehouse in Baltimore was for the receipt of automobiles and > subsequent distribution to dealerships. Thus you would probably only=20 > expect to find them in larger cities. Smaller cities and towns would have=20 > taken delivery of automobile boxcars on team tracks, usually equipped with=20 > a platform or ramp to the side to allow unloading. The contents of one=20 > boxcar, 4 to 6 autos, might be consigned to a single dealer, or to=20 > multiple dealers. > > Regards > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith > Auburn, AL > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin=20 > Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > >=20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 21:43:05 -0500 From: Ken Meyer Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Automobile Boxcars Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Gregg, I'm so glad you joined in, as I knew you worked here in Baltimore. The building I'm talking about was along side the North Avenue/B&O interchange. I have a Sanbord Map that shows its location. It is labeled on the map "PRR unloading shed". CT-1000 shows it as "PRR Automobile Warehouse". I remember the building in the 70s as a gray, wooden structure. Also a friend of mine says he road with a B&O crew and they did some switching there. This was in the late 70s and, of course, it was not being used for automobiles. I plan to model that area and was hoping to get some ideas. Thanks to everyone for your response. Ken Meyer Bel Air, MD Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > List, > > I need some more information on this. I was the Sales Representative > for the PRR that covered Mt. Vernon Yard in 1965-66. At that time the > only structure there was the Pennsylvania Produce Terminal which was > built in 1931. There was a depressed track from which automobiles > could be unloaded from end-door boxcars and wheeled machinery from > flatcars, but no buildings except the PPT. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ken Meyer Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 21:43:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Automobile Boxcars Gregg, I'm so glad you joined in, as I knew you worked here in Baltimore. The building I'm talking about was along side the North Avenue/B&O interchange. I have a Sanbord Map that shows its location. It is labeled on the map "PRR unloading shed". CT-1000 shows it as "PRR Automobile Warehouse". I remember the building in the 70s as a gray, wooden structure. Also a friend of mine says he road with a B&O crew and they did some switching there. This was in the late 70s and, of course, it was not being used for automobiles. I plan to model that area and was hoping to get some ideas. Thanks to everyone for your response. Ken Meyer Bel Air, MD Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > List, > > I need some more information on this. I was the Sales Representative > for the PRR that covered Mt. Vernon Yard in 1965-66. At that time the > only structure there was the Pennsylvania Produce Terminal which was > built in 1931. There was a depressed track from which automobiles > could be unloaded from end-door boxcars and wheeled machinery from > flatcars, but no buildings except the PPT. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 21:08:20 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] PRR masonry question From: "Roy Breon" Subject: [PRR] Elmira Division Accounting Maps Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:06:49 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com The Elmira Division map shows the PRR line going to Canandaigua NY. It also seems to show a short line running part way down the west side of Canandaigua Lake. I was not aware of this line running down the lake. Can anyone provide any information on this? Roy Breon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 9:11 AM Subject: [PRR] Division Accounting Maps Posted > Thanks to donor from the list, Keystone Crossings now has a set of > early division accounting maps on its Maps page... > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com/maps/accountingmaps.ws4d > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 22:01:45 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Elmira Division Accounting Maps Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:12:35 -0500 From: Christopher Hoess Subject: Re: [PRR] Elmira Division Accounting Maps Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:43:41 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Merry Christmas From: Greg Ritacco Message-Id: <2BF6AC12-4FA3-11D9-9FE0-000A959FDA52@surewest.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=216.93.194.38 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi group, Finally, something useful for your iPod. Rob has posted The Keystone Four's Song of the Freight Car as digitized from the original 78. If any of you have any public domain audio or audio you have the rights to and want to post it, I can help with the digitizing part. Not all history is written or photographed. Enjoy the song and happy holidays. Greg. http://prr.railfan.net/AdsImagesandMore.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Northcreek28@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:45:11 EST Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Automobile Boxcars In a message dated 12/15/04 10:46:28 AM, smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu writes: << Smaller cities and towns would have taken delivery of automobile boxcars on team tracks, usually equipped with a platform or ramp to the side to allow unloading. The contents of one boxcar, 4 to 6 autos, might be consigned to a single dealer, or to multiple dealers. >> I will second Bruce Smith's above comments. As a youngster I watched the unloading of autos from double door boxcars at an Erie station. Four autos per car with some kind of rack arrangment to hold the upper level cars. I think the automobiles were moved out under their own power on to the unloading dock. I don't recall any end door unloading nor can I say if these were 40 or 50-foot cars. Bob Mohowski ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roy Breon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Elmira Division Accounting Maps Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 23:23:22 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Yes, there was a track that went right out onto the city pier. Passenger trains met the lake steamboats there. These boats had regular routes making stops at various locations along the lake. Perhaps the map was in error as stated below and there was no railroad line on the west shore. I just saw a nice picture of a train on that pier. I think it was in the new Triumph VII book. Roy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Hoess" To: Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Elmira Division Accounting Maps > On Wed, Dec 15, 2004 at 10:01:45PM -0800, robert netzlof wrote: > > --- Roy Breon wrote: > > > > > The Elmira Division map shows the PRR line going to Canandaigua NY. > > > It also > > > seems to show a short line running part way down the west side of > > > Canandaigua Lake. I was not aware of this line running down the > > > lake. Can > > > anyone provide any information on this? > > > > The 1923 CT1000E, online at Jerry's site, see: > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com/docs/downloads/CT1000E_1923.pdf page 123 > > calls out a Canandaigua Lake Branch, about a mile and a half long. > > Perhaps that is it? > > I think so, but the accounting map is rather badly distorted. The 1903 > topo map from Maptech shows a spur to a large pier at the head of the > lake (the north side). According to the valuation reports you typed up, > Bob, the Canandaigua Lake line was only 1.43 miles, which is consistent > with a line to the head of the lake. Finally, > refers to > "Lake Landing (City Pier) on the Canandaigua Lake branch." So I think the > map has just distorted things a bit in showing a line down the west side > rather than to the north side of the lake. > > -- > Chris Hoess > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 07:51:56 -0500 Subject: [PRR] 1920's Accounting Maps From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <6EEF9C52-502A-11D9-B1C5-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com A lister had noted that one or more of these accounting maps bordered on the Delaware Division, but there was no Delaware Division map. I contacted Jim McDaniel, who had provided the map scans, and he confirmed that there was a Delaware Division map, scanned it, and forwarded it to me. It has now been added to the site. These maps are now believed to be AFTER 12/24 (probably early 1925) and BEFORE 6/8/27 for the reasons cited on the web site. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 08:22:48 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] 1920's Accounting Maps From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Friday, December 17, 2004, at 08:19 AM, robert netzlof wrote: > Whenever I try to view the Tyrone Division map, I get a 404. Is there > something amiss with the file or is it just me? Typo in the file name... fixed. Thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 10:38:56 -0500 From: dave pierson Subject: [PRR] ICC reports ( Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Caution: Speculation enclosed. Based on some 'original' reports (they show up at flea markets...8)>>) Distribution: Seem to have been widely distributed to the industry. Unknown what the 'algorithm' was. Likely: Each RR got 'n' copies, based on size, etc. Reproduction: Varied with time. My impression is they were mostly _printed_. Many organizations had internal 'print shops' for such jobs, pre 'Xerox'. Latterly may have used 'ditto'/'mimeo' techniques. Yeah, the OCR, as any OCR, is less than perfect.. Mostly usable... best dave pierson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: dave pierson Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 10:38:56 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] ICC reports ( Caution: Speculation enclosed. Based on some 'original' reports (they show up at flea markets...8)>>) Distribution: Seem to have been widely distributed to the industry. Unknown what the 'algorithm' was. Likely: Each RR got 'n' copies, based on size, etc. Reproduction: Varied with time. My impression is they were mostly _printed_. Many organizations had internal 'print shops' for such jobs, pre 'Xerox'. Latterly may have used 'ditto'/'mimeo' techniques. Yeah, the OCR, as any OCR, is less than perfect.. Mostly usable... best dave pierson ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 11:56:51 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Membership Form From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Al: I received a question privately for which I do not know the answer. The=20= membership form allows a donation as follows... > ** The Keystone Modeler Donation -I want to help the PRRT&HS preserve=20= > the heritage of the PRR through modeling projects and publications.=A0In= =20 > addition to my membership, I am enclosing my tax-deductible gift (as=20= > permitted by law) to this project. Does this donation go TO "The Keystone Modeler"? Are there expenses? (I=20= know there is a tremendous time expense. This is an excellent=20 publication!) Or does it go to the general fund on BEHALF (as a result) of "The=20 Keystone Modeler"? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRRT&HS Membership Form Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 19:37:08 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Re: Where are the donations to TKM going? The actual cost to produce TKM is rather miniscule However, at the present time the modeling committee has no direct funding and there are projects being considered by them that will incur expenses. The donations made to TKM are actually placed in the general account but we will have a line item in the income section that shows TKM donations, so we will know what a possible budget might be, any excess will be used for general and administrative expenses. Al Buchan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 21:35:25 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR masonry question X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Stone was cut then shipped to the building site. To do otherwise would have resulted in hauling dead weight. Finished blocks would be cut on sight to fit final adjustments. The book on the Rockville bridge gives a lot of information on the stone work. Should you not have this book, check Merchandise Service to see if Jerry can get you this book. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CENTGA@aol.com Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 20:49:05 EST Subject: [PRR] William Volkmer X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Does anyone have contact info for Mr. Volkmer? please reply off list. Thanks in advace Todd Horton ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:57:10 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Circus Trains on the PRR From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <0B6B41EF-528F-11D9-A877-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I'm not a huge fan of circus train modeling, but seems you almost "need" one for holiday open houses! That said, I know the James E. Strates Circus travelled the PRR rails in the 1950's. I just purchased a lot of several dozen Strates photos from the early 1950's on the PRR in the Philly area. Can anyone comment on "anything" about the movement of these trains between Pittsburgh and Philly? Typical routing? Special instructions? Etc. What other circus companies travelled the PRR in this era? Thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:12:01 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Circus Trains on the PRR X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Jerry, Ringling Bros Barnum & Baily traveled by rail. There is a B/W movie that I can not exactly recall but think it was called BIG TOP,but it shows the train getting ready in So. Philly and pulling out with a GG1. It shows a horrific train wreck later on using steam power. Jimmy Stewart played a clown in it who was hiding from the police acccount of his wife being found murdred. Pat McKinney ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:22:20 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Circus Trains on the PRR From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Monday, December 20, 2004, at 09:12 AM, PKMac101@aol.com wrote: > Ringling Bros Barnum & Baily traveled by rail. There is a B/W > movie > that I can not exactly recall but think it was called BIG TOP,but it > shows the > train getting ready in So. Philly and pulling out with a GG1. It shows > a > horrific train wreck later on using steam power. This was probably the wreck west of Altoona. I believe it involved the Strates show. 1940's maybe? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:27:46 -0500 From: Drew McGhee Subject: Re: [PRR] Circus Trains on the PRR From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:29:16 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Circus Trains on the PRR MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Jerry.... Have seen photos and movies of circus trains coming into Phiily(coming west from Harrisburg). Circus trains always used West Phila Elevated (High Line) to Arsenal then east on Delaware Extension to GreenwichYard to set up around the old stadium area. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:35:23 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Circus Trains on the PRR From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Monday, December 20, 2004, at 09:27 AM, Drew McGhee wrote: > _The Greatest Show on Earth_, 1952. Great movie! Available on DVD and > VHS from Amazon for less than $20.00. Thanks, Drew! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Circus Trains on the PRR Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:46:45 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I've seen photos fo the JES circus train unloading in=20 York. Over the years its unloading varied from tying it=20 down on the frederick branch, unloading it with a parade=20 down Philadelphia Street. Other times, they parked the=20 train within the gates of the York fair, which had a few=20 stub-end sidings and parking it there. For those that care, the current trainset of the JES=20 circus train has a POS211 "president" series in it's=20 consist as car number 7. http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/m/jmlaboda/StratesPix.htm Regards, John Jerry Britton wrote: > I'm not a huge fan of circus train modeling, but seems=20 >you almost "need" one for holiday open houses! >=20 > That said, I know the James E. Strates Circus travelled=20 >the PRR rails in the 1950's. I just purchased a lot of=20 >several dozen Strates photos from the early 1950's on the=20 >PRR in the Philly area. >=20 > Can anyone comment on "anything" about the movement of=20 >these trains between Pittsburgh and Philly? Typical=20 >routing? Special instructions? Etc. >=20 > What other circus companies travelled the PRR in this=20 >era? >=20 > Thanks. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing=20 >list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com >=20 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit=20 >http://lists.dsop.com. >=20 Designer, Modeler, Consultant Mount Vernon Shops York, PA www.mountvernonshops.com Specializing in O, HO & N Scale Structures for the Pennsy=20 modeler. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:47:20 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Circus Trains on the PRR X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Jerry, No,not west of Alt. The movie showed the wreck as happening on sgl track. Rear end collision. Power was not PRR. Thanks Drew for remembering it was the "Greatest Show on Earth" Pat ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <3D966965-52AB-11D9-A98E-000A958DAD46@vetmed.auburn.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-Talk talk From: Bruce Smith Subject: [PRR] Ex-Prr cars in show trains Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:19:01 -0600 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Folks, John noted that JES7 (JAMES E STRATES SHOWS) was a "presidents car". IIRC it was the William Wallace Atterbury. Would anyone be able to provide me with a history of when this car was sold and if it was directly to JES, or through other owners fist? Second, in answering a question on the Passenger car list, regarding what appears to be a P70FAR (P70FA), possibly number 39?2, in the consist of the Cetlin & Wilson Shows train circa 1958, I became curious as to the reason that car was present. Can anyone indicate if a P70FAR was sold to this organization? The two best hypotheses so far is that it was either leased, or that it was there to provide a rider car for the PRR train crew. Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 12:25:44 -0800 (PST) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: Re: [PRR] Circus Trains on the PRR Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:10:30 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] Circus Trains on the PRR Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com It's off subject, but why are all the photos from Ft. Eustis ? (Army Transportation Corps HQ, Railroad training, etc. off CSX mainline near Yorktown which is a short ferry ride from PRR in Cape Charles or Norfolk for mandatory PRR content!) Jim McDaniel, mystified in Delmarva, where the circus never came by train as far as I know ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kevin Lehman" Subject: Re: [PRR] Circus Trains on the PRR Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 19:52:20 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Jim McDaniel, mystified in Delmarva, where the circus never came by=20 train as far as I know What about the Delaware State Fair in Harrington , De?=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20 Please visit my homepages =20 The Del-Mar-Va Model Railroad Club Website=20 http://community.webtv.net/PCRR4LIFE/TheDelMarVaModel=20 http://ourworld.cs.com/dmrrclub/ http://www.railimages.com/gallery/kevinlehman Kevin S Lehman`s Train & Railroad Equipment Pictures=20 http://community.webtv.net/KEVINLEHMAN/KevinSLehmansTrain/=20 Owner of Railfanning_Delmarva Yahoo Group=20 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Railfanning_Delmarva ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:59:30 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Pittsburgh From: Greg Ritacco Message-Id: <71DFE8DA-5382-11D9-AC6A-000A959FDA52@surewest.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=216.93.194.38 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi everyone, A question for the group; when did Allegheny City become Pittsburgh? Thanks and happy holidays to all. Greg Ritacco ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: RE: [PRR] Green coaches??? Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 15:00:39 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <71DFE8DA-5382-11D9-AC6A-000A959FDA52@surewest.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Disposition-Notification-To: "Sam Vastano" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Dec 2004 20:01:03.0769 (UTC) FILETIME=[CCF1C090:01C4E797] Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Group, Did the PRR ever have Green passenger coaches???? Lately my daughter has me watching train videos and it looks to me like green coaches occasionally. Am I nuts or is it the poor quality of the video? Thanks Sam Vastano ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 15:03:38 -0500 From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Pittsburgh Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi everyone, A question for the group; when did Allegheny City become Pittsburgh? Thanks and happy holidays to all. Greg Ritacco 1907 Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] Green coaches??? Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 14:22:04 -0600 To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Dec 21, 2004, at 2:00 PM, Sam Vastano wrote: > Group, > > Did the PRR ever have Green passenger coaches???? Lately my daughter > has > me watching train videos and it looks to me like green coaches > occasionally. Am I nuts or is it the poor quality of the video? Sam, Not knowing the specific shot, its hard to tell ;^) AFAIK, no PRR coaches were painted green. As we have said before, 4 Pullman 12-1, plan 2410I cars were painted "Brunswick Green" in 1940-42, but these were assigned to the NYC! I have seen a lot of photos of headend cars that were soooo grimy that they looked green. Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Hough " Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 15:06:56 -0600 Subject: RE: [PRR] Green coaches??? Subject: Re: [PRR] Green coaches??? From: Charles.Burnley@conectiv.com Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 16:25:07 -0500 From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] N scale 2F-P1 Trucks Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 17:14:37 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Listers, Does anyone know if someone has manufactured a truck in N=20 scale similar to the 2F-P1? If not, is there a reasonable=20 stand-in available. Thanks for any help. Best regards towards a joyful holiday season. -John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Green coaches??? Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 18:28:44 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I believe this is heavy grime. The old Pollyscale grimy black with its slight green shade was't bad for this (the new version is SP Lark gray and can't be used for the intended purpose without adding another color or two). We have had this discussion before on X29 REA cars. The latter traveled at high speeds but never got to the car washers. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Vastano" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 2:00 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] Green coaches??? > Group, > > Did the PRR ever have Green passenger coaches???? Lately my daughter has > me watching train videos and it looks to me like green coaches > occasionally. Am I nuts or is it the poor quality of the video? > > Thanks > > Sam Vastano > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: RE: [PRR] Green coaches??? Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 06:53:27 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Dec 2004 11:53:00.0773 (UTC) FILETIME=[C954E950:01C4E81C] Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Bruce & Group, Thanks for the info... I guess it is just they are really grimy.... I have watched it several times and I know it says Pennsylvania across the top of the windows. I would like to somehow get that effect on some of my models without them looking black. Any ideas? Sam Vastano -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Smith [mailto:smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu] Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 3:22 PM To: svastano@hotmail.com Cc: PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Green coaches??? On Dec 21, 2004, at 2:00 PM, Sam Vastano wrote: > Group, > > Did the PRR ever have Green passenger coaches???? Lately my daughter > has > me watching train videos and it looks to me like green coaches > occasionally. Am I nuts or is it the poor quality of the video? Sam, Not knowing the specific shot, its hard to tell ;^) AFAIK, no PRR coaches were painted green. As we have said before, 4 Pullman 12-1, plan 2410I cars were painted "Brunswick Green" in 1940-42, but these were assigned to the NYC! I have seen a lot of photos of headend cars that were soooo grimy that they looked green. Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Carl Izzo" Subject: [PRR] Circus Trains on the PRR Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 21:42:28 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com During the late 1930s and early 1940s Circus Trains used to unload and = were stored at a yard at the Northwest corner of the intersection of = Penn avenue and Fifth Avenue (between Penn Avenue and the PRR Main = Line), in the Point Breeze section of Pittsburgh, PA. My Mother took me = there to see the Circus Trains. The yard was a few blocks East of the East Liberty station. I believe = it was originally used as a stock yard. The last time I looked (30 or = 40 years ago), there was either a Western Electric or a General Electric = Plant on the site. =20 Carl P. Izzo ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 21:16:16 -0600 (CST) Subject: RE: [PRR] Green coaches??? From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com > Bruce & Group, > > Thanks for the info... I guess it is just they are really grimy.... I > have watched it several times and I know it says Pennsylvania across the > top of the windows. I would like to somehow get that effect on some of > my models without them looking black. Any ideas? > > Sam Vastano Sam, As was indicated before, the "old" grimy black was a good start. With new floquil, or better yet, Poly scale paint, I start with a mix of oily black, grimy black, RR tie brown, depot buff and whatever else strickes my fancy. I dilute it out pretty far, say 1 part paint to 1 to 5 parts water, and a touch of a wetting agent (photo flo or soap), and then use repeated thin coats with the airbrush. If you use to much, the paint pools and looks wrong. Use a Q-tip dipped in alcohol (for Poly Scale) to wipe off the reporting marks so that you can read them (looks like the yard clerk did it ) Regards Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 22:54:39 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Circus Trains on the PRR Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 14:11:47 -0500 From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." Subject: [PRR] Re: Pittsburgh Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com --On Wednesday, December 22, 2004 1:10 Greg Ritacco" wrote: > A question for the group; when did Allegheny City become Pittsburgh? > Thanks and happy holidays to all. Pittsburgh annexed Allegheny City on Dec. 7, 1907. It was a hostile take-over that shaped the political landscape in Allegheny County in ways Pittsburgh is still paying for. Pray, what does this have to do with the PRR? Vagel Keller Pittsburgh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Hough " Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 19:29:50 -0600 Subject: [PRR] EMD Es,Fs front lift rings and number boards From: "Frank & Andrea Amato" Subject: [PRR] Wilkes-Barre branch trackage Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 21:04:33 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com PRR listers, Now that John Deere has shut down operations for the holidays, I'm making some steady progress on my Wilkes-Barre branch layout (http://home.mchsi.com/~amato/trains/layout/construction.html). My question is this : was the WB Branch ever double track? I ask this because I need to account for several bridges. I have seen many examples of double track bridges with a single main after a line has been downgraded. My 1965 interlocking diagram book shows a single main w/ sidings, as does the 1965 track chart on Keystone Crossings, but I don't have any references as to the original construction... Thanks in advance, Frank Amato Davenport, IA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:12:06 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Circus Trains on the PRR X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Dallas yd still exists. One through track to a dead end at a former food plant( May have been Nabisco at one time )one run-around and one stub. Looks to have been three or four tracks going back towards that building at one time plus possibly some other sdgs . Comes off the main at CP "HOME" former "CM" at Dallas Ave. East Liberty station would have been west of CM on a curve and the present East Liberty PAT bus stop is just west of this area. Pat ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SD45Bob@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:26:39 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Circus Trains on the PRR X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com During the late 1930s and early 1940s Circus Trains used to unload and were stored at a yard at the Northwest corner of the intersection of Penn Avenue and Fifth Avenue (between Penn Avenue and the PRR Main Line), in the Point Breeze section of Pittsburgh, PA. My Mother took me there to see the Circus Trains. The yard was a few blocks East of the East Liberty station. I believe it was originally used as a stock yard. The last time I looked (30 or 40 years ago), there was either a Western Electric or a General Electric Plant on the site. Carl P. Izzo If I can recall I think the yard you are referring to was part of the yard in Homewood. The West end of the yard also had access to the Brilliant branch as well as the mainline west. Believe it or not most of the yard that hasn't been converted to Busway or small businesses is still there but all of the rail has been removed and just grown up weed and sumac's and maybe some homeless individuals reside there now. At least this is what I saw of it as I passed through on Amtrak a few years ago. Homewood is not a business magnet and is not being developed as well due to it's location. Bob Meier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:05:02 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Wilkes-Barre branch trackage From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com > PRR listers, > > Now that John Deere has shut down operations for the holidays, I'm making > some steady progress on my Wilkes-Barre branch layout > (http://home.mchsi.com/~amato/trains/layout/construction.html). > > My question is this : was the WB Branch ever double track? I ask this > because I need to account for several bridges. I have seen many examples > of > double track bridges with a single main after a line has been downgraded. Frank, An alternative explanation is when a line was graded for douoble track, but never actually doubled. The C&PD is a great example of this. Regards Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:07:39 -0600 (CST) Subject: [PRR] B60B generator From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Folks, A quick B60B question. I noticed a generator under several photos of B60Bs. Most, but not all were messenger cars with the star and vents. Were all/most non-messenger B60Bs equipped with generators? Was this an early or a late phenomenon? Regards Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Hough " Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:36:44 -0600 Subject: [PRR] New PRR Images at Rail Images Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 00:46:37 +1100 From: "Mick Molloy" Subject: [PRR] Greeting of the Season Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Well, here in Australia it is now Christmas Day. Having completed all the Father Christmas duties of parents, we are now= kicking back and enjoying a little peace and quiet (with four kids this is= all to rare!) and a late night coffee. I thought it would be a good opportunity to wish all the listers a safe and= happy Christmas. Eileen and Mick Molloy (Melb, Australia) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] Z74d Underbody Diagram Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 09:31:50 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Listers, I'm in the process of building a Z74d, and I'd like to=20 know where I can find an underbody diagram? I'd rather ask=20 before going on a quest to take pictures and find out one=20 was available. Thanks for any help and may all have a good=20 holiday. Best Regards, John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR] B60B generator Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 09:44:40 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Bruce and lists, All the B60B cars were equipped with generators and battery boxes as built. Rebuilding B60B cars for express messenger service began in September 1948. Bob Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 11:07 PM Subject: [PRR] B60B generator | Folks, | | A quick B60B question. I noticed a generator under several photos of | B60Bs. Most, but not all were messenger cars with the star and vents. | Were all/most non-messenger B60Bs equipped with generators? Was this an | early or a late phenomenon? | | Regards | Bruce | | Bruce Smith | Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] A White Christmas from Lines West! Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 15:09:58 +0000 From: Derrick Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Wilkes-Barre branch trackage Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:02:53 -0500 To: prr-talk@dsop.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/533/Sat Oct 16 21:09:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on 127.0.0.1 X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: -1.665 () BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.48 on 128.2.120.216 X-Greylist: Sender succeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6rc1 (meredith.dementia.org [128.2.120.216]); Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:02:57 -0500 (EST) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com http://prr.dementia.org/documents/wilkes_barre_div_tc_1949.pdf shows substantially single track. The one thing it's missing that I'd like to see is what the Catawissa Branch looked like before the middle of it was abandoned. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 18:05:12 -0500 From: Martin Harriss Subject: [PRR] Re: Wilkes-Barre branch trackage Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com > PRR listers, > > Now that John Deere has shut down operations for the holidays, I'm making > some steady progress on my Wilkes-Barre branch layout > (http://home.mchsi.com/~amato/trains/layout/construction.html). > > My question is this : was the WB Branch ever double track? I ask this > because I need to account for several bridges. I have seen many examples of > double track bridges with a single main after a line has been downgraded. > > My 1965 interlocking diagram book shows a single main w/ sidings, as does > the 1965 track chart on Keystone Crossings, but I don't have any references > as to the original construction... > > Thanks in advance, > > Frank Amato > Davenport, IA My 1956 Northern Region ETT also shows the Wilkes-Barre branch as being single track. Also, Orr mentions the W-B branch being single track in the early thirties. It's interesting to note that at least a couple of other important PRR branches were single track - I'm thinking of the Bald Eagle and the Bel-Del. Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 20:09:35 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Wilkes-Barre branch trackage MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Season's Greetings..... The Wilkes Barre Branch was double tracked between Sunbury and Raven (MP 0 to MP 5) and also between Nescopeck and Nanticoke (MP 35.5 to MP 56) about 1950. Hope this helps. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Happy Holidays & What'd You Get? ;-) Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 10:43:47 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Happy Holidays from Etters, PA! (Where? Between York and Harrisburg!) No snow here... cold and sunny. Santa brought me the new DVD on "Pennsy's West End". Kids got me a few packs of Classic Metal Works vehicles. I was inundated with gift cards for Home Depot, which is great, as my suspended ceiling framing in my train room is waiting on tiles. The tiles are now funded, with room to spare for more plywood and homasote! Though not a gift, my dealer shipment of Atlas Shays arrived on Friday. One was slated for me, painted in PP&L. Though PP&L had Shays, at Harrisburg they had center cab switchers... but I'm going to put a Shay there. Pretty cool loco. How'd you all fare? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 12:19:56 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Happy Holidays & What'd You Get? ;-) From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal References: In-Reply-To: Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Jerry wrote: > Happy Holidays from Etters, PA! (Where? Between York and Harrisburg!) > How'd you all fare? I got time I was just telling Jerry yesterday that I've been very productive and just not on PRR Projects (I need to get some work done on those P70s for PRRPro!). With the "girls" in Colorado (I got left behind because medically I'm not allowed to fly long distance yet) I've spent the last two days with the compressor running from 9am to 9pm... its GREAT! So far, I have a pair of O1c motors dissassembled, and the one that was painted is mostly stripped. I should get both grit blasted today or tomorrow and then they head for the paint shop. I painted the Branchline 12-1 sides I had from the JOHN JAY kit Tuscan and lettered them for PULLMAN and HAWKINS. I cut some windows out of 0.030" styrene, but haven't decided if I will use them, or wait for the laser cut windows from AMB. I have also stripped and painted a P2K NE style caboose from the READING green and yellow to the READING red scheme, and the first coat of paint is on my READING I8 2-8-0. These will be for the READING transfer job to Columbia yard. I did get some neat stuff too I had a Canon Digital Rebel camera under the tree... and as soon as I figure it out, I'll start posting . I also got myselfthe newest digitrax throttle, the UT4R (Thanks Jerry!) and a Westerfield X23 MOW camp car kit. Happy Holidays Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: frbob@clearnet.net (Bob McKay) Subject: Re: [PRR] Happy Holidays & What'd You Get? ;-) Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 17:50:38 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Merry Christmas from DuBois. We missed the snow up here. I now have another Kato EP22 and an Atlas FRS24 and am enjoying Triumph VII. boB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry @ Pennsy" To: "PRR-talk" Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 10:43 AM Subject: [PRR] Happy Holidays & What'd You Get? ;-) > Happy Holidays from Etters, PA! (Where? Between York and Harrisburg!) > > No snow here... cold and sunny. > > Santa brought me the new DVD on "Pennsy's West End". Kids got me a few > packs of Classic Metal Works vehicles. I was inundated with gift cards > for Home Depot, which is great, as my suspended ceiling framing in my > train room is waiting on tiles. The tiles are now funded, with room to > spare for more plywood and homasote! > > Though not a gift, my dealer shipment of Atlas Shays arrived on Friday. > One was slated for me, painted in PP&L. Though PP&L had Shays, at > Harrisburg they had center cab switchers... but I'm going to put a Shay > there. Pretty cool loco. > > How'd you all fare? > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 19:54:30 EST Subject: [PRR] MERRY CHRISTMAS X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL. Pat ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 19:54:30 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] MERRY CHRISTMAS A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL. Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CENTGA@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 20:43:27 EST Subject: [PRR] Merry Christmas and a Horseshoe Question X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I hope everyone had a very Merry Christmas!!! My wife bought me the book "Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger Train Consist and Cars 1952" by Harry Stegmaier, Jr. On page 137 it shows the St. Lousian heading Eastward down Horseshoe curve on the outside middle track! I don't think I've ever seen a shot of this before, all the shots I've looked at show these two tracks as Westbound. Was this extremely rare or did it happen more than I think? Thanks, Todd Horton ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Hom" Subject: [PRR] RE: EMD Es, Fs front lift rings and number boards Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 20:48:13 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <41CAFBF4.19618.2220D53A@localhost> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Ken Hough asked: "Next are the number boards that attach by steel brackets and are about 6" off the surface of the nose. What was the advantage to this design?" Simple - they're easier for towermen and station agents to read. The original EP20 (E-7) and AP20 (PA) were small and were hard to see, especially on a dirty unit. These number boards were NOT installed on EP22 (E-8) as EMD designed them with larger number boards. "Were these added by the PRR or from EMD?" PRR. "If they were added were the original number boards 'blanked out'." Yes. See photos in Withers Vol 7, or Douglas/Weiglin's _Pennsy Diesels_. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 21:11:30 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Happy Holidays & What'd You Get? ;-) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Jerry @ Pennsy wrote: > Happy Holidays from Etters, PA! (Where? Between York and Harrisburg!) > How'd you all fare? A nice illustrated volume on the paintings of Howard Fogg, including several great PRR scenes (GG1, K4, M1), "The Railroad Artistry of Howard Fogg." And in the spirit of the railroad that served... -- Noel, Pa. (Pittsburgh Division); -- Holly Oak, Del. (Maryland Division); -- Star City, Ind. (Logansport Division); and -- Lordstown, Ohio (Cleveland and E&A Divisions). ...best wishes for a blessed Christmas/holiday, and a prosperous 2005 to all. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Frank & Andrea Amato" Subject: [PRR] Model Railroad Stoneworks - N scale??? Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 21:43:50 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Thanks everyone for your replies re: Wilkes-Barre branch trackage. I think I have enough info to continue trackwork up the Susquehanna! On another topic, does anyone know if Model Railroad Stoneworks bridges are available in N scale? In particular, the skewed stone arch? I will need several for my layout. I ask because I see that our listmeister has an N scale version of their Rockville Bridge... Frank ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 21:55:02 -0600 (CST) Subject: [PRR] P70 blind colors From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi Folks, I'm looking at tracing E416571, Passenger Cars, Interior Color Scheme Painting and Furnishings, Jan 14, 1939, updated several times with thelast being 5-6-41 (The Keystone, Vol 29, #3, Autumn 1996). I am trying to figure out the color of the blinds. The blinds are listed as "P.R.R. Curtains - Pantasote - face Groton 8727, back M-321-18. REF 24-3472." So, can anyone interpret this for me ??? Is Groton a color or a manufacturer? Which side is the back (I assume its the window side, which is the one I want). Pantasote was the maker of the blinds, right? Regards Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Douglas Nelson" Subject: RE: [PRR] Merry Christmas and a Horseshoe Question Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 22:01:13 -0800 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <1d5.3276db58.2eff713f@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 6b73c4bfaee5d95e1a2467d70233b1a70a9da525759e2654c047de97d952a81f2036bcb3a92ca941a2d4e88014a4647c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 165.121.167.20 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Todd: Someone may be able to provide more difinitive answer, but I believe = that this was regular practice to run eastbound passenger trains on this = track (3) which was signaled in both directions. This, I believe, was due to = the two northern-most tracks (3 & 4) being the tracks that served the = Altoona passenger station. This is the same practice that is used today, = although there are only three tracks now, with the middle signaled for both directions. The same situation is also shown on page 126 of the same = book. Doug Nelson. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of CENTGA@aol.com Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 5:43 PM To: PRR-TALK@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Merry Christmas and a Horseshoe Question I hope everyone had a very Merry Christmas!!! My wife bought me the = book=20 "Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger Train Consist and Cars 1952" by Harry Stegmaier,=20 Jr. On page 137 it shows the St. Lousian heading Eastward down Horseshoe = curve on the outside middle track! I don't think I've ever seen a shot = of this=20 before, all the shots I've looked at show these two tracks as Westbound. = Was this=20 extremely rare or did it happen more than I think? Thanks, Todd Horton ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 00:02:47 -0800 From: Ron Dugas Subject: Re: [PRR] Merry Christmas and a Horseshoe Question Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi All, Not really more definitive but supporting Doug's statements. Track Chart No. 9756 Pittsburgh Division, Dec. 31, 1953 shows: "MO" to "Slope" No. 4 - Westward Passenger No. 3 - Westward Freight No. 2 - Eastward Passenger No. 1 - Eastward Freight However, the chart does appear to show signaling in both directions on track 3 though the copy I have is a xerox copy and not as clear as it could be. Further evidence is the existence of Eastbound Dragging Equipment Detectors on tracks 1, 2 "&" 3 just west of Burgoon Run and east of the signal bridge at milepost 242.7 and Westbound Dragging Equipment Detectors on tracks 3 & 4 east of the signal bridge at Milepost 241.6 Respectfully, Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CENTGA@aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 08:56:41 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Merry Christmas and a Horseshoe Question X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 12/26/2004 1:06:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, dougnelson@mindspring.com writes: Someone may be able to provide more difinitive answer, but I believe that this was regular practice to run eastbound passenger trains on this track (3) which was signaled in both directions. This, I believe, was due to the two northern-most tracks (3 & 4) being the tracks that served the Altoona passenger station. This is the same practice that is used today, although there are only three tracks now, with the middle signaled for both directions. The same situation is also shown on page 126 of the same book. Doug Nelson. Thanks Doug, I didn't notice the other photo. Was there ever any evidence of Westbound trains using anything other than tracks # 3 & # 4? I assume this would have only happened in an event of a wreck or track work? Thanks for the information. Todd ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: "PRR-Talk LIST" From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] Model Railroad Stoneworks - N scale??? Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 11:22:13 -0500 To: "Frank & Andrea Amato" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Dec 25, 2004, at 10:43 PM, Frank & Andrea Amato wrote: > On another topic, does anyone know if Model Railroad Stoneworks > bridges are > available in N scale? In particular, the skewed stone arch? I will > need > several for my layout. I ask because I see that our listmeister has > an N > scale version of their Rockville Bridge... The Rockville Bridge was done in N, but he quit marketing it due to lack of demand. However, he's since done one for me. Upon people seeing mine, many have asked, and he continues to make them on a special order basis. Contact them for info. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: Re: [PRR] Happy Holidays & What'd You Get? Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 10:29:02 -0600 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to the List, My wonderful wife got me a BLI M1a and a heater for my basement train room! I must have been good this year! Ron ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 12:26:40 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] Digest Number 1929 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 12/26/2004 6:21:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: (Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 21:44:34 -0600 (CST) From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu): I'm looking at tracing E416571, Passenger Cars, Interior Color Scheme Painting and Furnishings, Jan 14, 1939, updated several times with thelast being 5-6-41 (The Keystone, Vol 29, #3, Autumn 1996). I am trying to figure out the color of the blinds. The blinds are listed as "P.R.R. Curtains - Pantasote - face Groton 8727, back M-321-18. REF 24-3472." So, can anyone interpret this for me ??? Is Groton a color or a manufacturer? Which side is the back (I assume its the window side, which is the one I want). Pantasote was the maker of the blinds, right? Pantasote was the manufacturer. The factory in Passaic NJ is long abandoned, but the company is in deep litigation concerning exposure to vinyl cloride. Pantasote was also the trademark for the material used in on the backing side of the shades. The following description from 1906 concerns a different use of the product, but gives some idea of why it would be used on window shades: 09950-01 "PANTASOTE" IMITATION LEATHER: GENERAL INFORMATION PANTASOTE was an imitation leather product used to cover courtroom fly doors in GSA Federal Buildings/Courthouses. The following is a modified entry from the 1906 Sweets Catalog describing thematerial and its uses. NOTE TO READERS: THIS IS A HISTORICAL DESCRIPTION OF PANTASOTEFROM 1906. IT DOES NOT DESCRIBE A CONTEMPORARY PRODUCT. THIS STANDARD IS FOR BACKGROUND ON A MATERIAL WIDELY USED BY GSA. THE PANTASOTE COMPANY Address in 1906: 11 Broadway New York NY Address Today: Pantasote, Inc. Passaic, New Jersey 201/777-8500 The original company dates back to the 1890's. Pantasote, Inc. is still in business in Passaic, New Jersey, however the company has split apart and the wall covering division, among others, is no longer affiliated with the original company. HISTORICAL DESCRIPTION Pantasote is a coined word from Greek derivation, meaning "to serve all purposes". Pantasote leather was originally manufactured for upholstery purposes and was historically used for wall decoration,shades and curtains. Pantasote materials were placed on the marketin 1891 and could often be found in residences, hospitals, yachts, railway cars, electric cars, and on automobile canopy tops, seat upholstery and lap-robes. Pantasote was also frequently mackintoshed (waterproofed with a rubberized cotton coating) for use in making tents, awnings and sporting/camping equipment. Pantasote consisted of two fabrics united firmly together with an intermediate coating of Pantasote gum. The surface was then coated with Pantasote and embossed, giving it a finish resembling hideleather. It was available in a variety of colors and finished witheither ordinary leather grains or a high relief embossing.The composition of Pantasote rendered it insusceptible to anyclimatic conditions. Unlike genuine leather, pantasote did not stretch, bag, dry up or oxidize. It was water-proof, germ-proof, non-flammable, and could be washed or cleaned at any time. In general, it tended to last longer than most hide leather and cost about 1/3 as much. As an upholstery for shades and curtains, it was the most durable and inexpensive material in 1906. Being opaque, the Pantasote surface protected the decorated fabric on the inside of the shadesor curtains (sometimes made of very delicate and artistic silk) from the effects of sun (rotting and fading) and rain. (This from a Federal historical preservation site). Groton 8727 refers to an embossed silk. Groton CT was heavy into the machinery used to make patterned silk. I will assume that "8727" refers to both the pattern and the color. Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] help with P70 blind colors Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 13:23:26 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <50003.65.81.128.92.1104032674.squirrel@www.vetmed.auburn.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Bruce: Pantasote was a very large (now defunct) plastics manufacturing firm. They began waterproofing window shades for Pullman cars ca. 1930 and got more involved in major plastics manufacturing in the ensuring years. I suspect Groton 8727 may be a fabric and/or color. See if someone has a Pantone color chart to verify if this is a legit color name. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Rorie317@aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 16:03:04 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR paint in PC X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Happy Holidays to all Listers! I am in need for some info, or a best guestimate. Approximately how far or long into Penn Central were PRR painted freight locomotives still to be seen in considerable numbers (say 25-35% of total roster)? Late 1968, 1969, 1970, '71? Any help is greatly appreciated. TIA Don Surowitch ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR paint in PC Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 16:46:27 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Don Surowitch asked: "I am in need for some info, or a best guestimate. Approximately how far or long into Penn Central were PRR painted freight locomotives still to be seen in considerable numbers (say 25-35% of total roster)? Late 1968, 1969, 1970, '71?" Depending on what you define as "PRR paint," your cutoff time would be early 1971. In an attempt to break down perceptions of the "red team" and "green team" rivalry, management ordered the "Penn Centralization" of all power. Unfortunately, what this resulted in was some really nasty looking partial repaintings with the predecessor road's name and heralds blacked out and replaced with a PC worm. Some unusual examples surfaced, including GG1s retaining striping but with painted out Keystones and a worm centered on the carbody (4801 was photographed in 1971 with five stripes and a worm), and F7s with scabby remnants of the single stripe scheme, painted out "PENNSYLVANIA" and Keystones, and a small worm on the nose. Units painted in the late "Keystones only" scheme often had their Keystones painted out with only small worms applied. See Robert Yanosey's _Penn Central Power_ for specific examples. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Hough " Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 16:20:05 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR paint in PC Cc: "PRR-Talk" From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] Happy Holidays & What'd You Get? Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 20:56:01 -0500 To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Dec 26, 2004, at 11:29 AM, wrote: > My wonderful wife got me a BLI M1a and a heater for my basement train > room! I must have been good this year! Be careful about using temporary heating solutions if your roadbed is homasote. It will swell and contract with the temperature changes and contort your track out of alignment. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 22:14:54 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Homasote instability again X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 12/26/2004 9:02:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > Be careful about using temporary heating solutions if your roadbed is > homasote. It will swell and contract with the temperature changes and > contort your track out of alignment. > I keep hearing similar claims, but my experience was very different. During my 10 years in Oregon, I had a layout in a basement room heated by a wood stove, which sometimes was fired VERY warm (the way I like it) and sometimes was out completely. I had no problems with homasote creepage (not from all the water-soluable scenery either.) I'm not saying it can't happen, but I am saying it does not always happen. Lee Rainey ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 22:27:15 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] Homasote instability again X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com All: Seems to me there are 2 factors... Heat and humidity. The combination can be very bad for homasote...matter of fact, that's why I used foam... I have seen a local layout in a basement where both heat and humidity can be a problem and I've seen track gaps change over a 1/4" with the seasons. I actually saw 2 ballasted parallel mainlines "life & kink" directly over a baseboard heater... This can be minimized by sealing ALL sides of the homasote with an outdoor paint/waterseal...make sure to paint edges also. Jeff Warner LeeRainey@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 12/26/2004 9:02:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, >jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > > > > >>Be careful about using temporary heating solutions if your roadbed is >>homasote. It will swell and contract with the temperature changes and >>contort your track out of alignment. >> >> >> > >I keep hearing similar claims, but my experience was very different. > >During my 10 years in Oregon, I had a layout in a basement room heated by a >wood stove, which sometimes was fired VERY warm (the way I like it) and >sometimes was out completely. I had no problems with homasote creepage (not from all >the water-soluable scenery either.) > >I'm not saying it can't happen, but I am saying it does not always happen. > >Lee Rainey > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-Talk From: Bill Morlitz Subject: Re: [PRR] Happy Holidays & What'd You Get? Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 23:08:14 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Dec 26, 2004, at 8:56 PM, Jerry @ Pennsy wrote: > On Dec 26, 2004, at 11:29 AM, wrote: > >> My wonderful wife got me a BLI M1a and a heater for my basement train >> room! I must have been good this year! > > Be careful about using temporary heating solutions if your roadbed is > homasote. It will swell and contract with the temperature changes and > contort your track out of alignment. I used Finneran & Haley kitchen/bathroom paint, which seals the surface from moisture penetration, on all sides and edges of my Homasote before I mounted it on my basement benchwork five years ago this month. I have had nary a buckle or contraction and the temperature can vary by 15 degrees. Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Douglas Nelson" Subject: RE: [PRR] Merry Christmas and a Horseshoe Question Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 23:39:42 -0800 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <1e.3b76d768.2f001d19@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 6b73c4bfaee5d95e1a2467d70233b1a70a9da525759e265409dc8eaf89da677fe226279c39b20230a7ce0e8f8d31aa3f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 165.121.168.162 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Todd: I think that most westbound trains did use tracks 3 & 4, but any track = could be used in either direction when necessary.=20 Doug.=20 -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of CENTGA@aol.com Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 5:57 AM To: PRR-TALK@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Merry Christmas and a Horseshoe Question In a message dated 12/26/2004 1:06:42 AM Eastern Standard Time,=20 dougnelson@mindspring.com writes: Someone may be able to provide more difinitive answer, but I believe = that this was regular practice to run eastbound passenger trains on this = track (3) which was signaled in both directions. This, I believe, was due to = the two northern-most tracks (3 & 4) being the tracks that served the = Altoona passenger station. This is the same practice that is used today, = although there are only three tracks now, with the middle signaled for both directions. The same situation is also shown on page 126 of the same = book. Doug Nelson. Thanks Doug, I didn't notice the other photo. Was there ever any = evidence of Westbound trains using anything other than tracks # 3 & # 4? I assume = this=20 would have only happened in an event of a wreck or track work? Thanks = for the=20 information. Todd ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Homasote instability again Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 14:16:10 +0000 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I live in the Chicago area where the temperture has varied from 104 to -27 and the humidity from 100% to about 0% and I have never had a problem with unsealed homasote so there is more to this problem then just humidity and temperature as the sources. I sure don't know what causes it but it hasn't infected me (yet).-------------- Original message from LeeRainey@aol.com: -------------- > In a message dated 12/26/2004 9:02:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > > > > Be careful about using temporary heating solutions if your roadbed is > > homasote. It will swell and contract with the temperature changes and > > contort your track out of alignment. > > > > I keep hearing similar claims, but my experience was very different. > > During my 10 years in Oregon, I had a layout in a basement room heated by a > wood stove, which sometimes was fired VERY warm (the way I like it) and > sometimes was out completely. I had no problems with homasote creepage (not from > all > the water-soluable scenery either.) > > I'm not saying it can't happen, but I am saying it does not always happen. > > Lee Rainey > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Happy Holidays & What'd You Get? ;-) Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 11:43:00 -0500 From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Happy Holidays & What'd You Get? ;-) Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 12:10:17 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcTsM4kMSgKkkk7dTbyvyIIiNuINSQAA07Sw In-reply-to: <2D2CD87071F9FD4194390846164EB54F0117F272@exch004.westchestergov.com> Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com You do! Tell us about it. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Chany, Christopher Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 11:43 AM To: 'PRR-talk' Subject: RE: [PRR] Happy Holidays & What'd You Get? ;-) Listers, Happy Holidays. I got Alto tower kit, A 1920's garage kit, and a book The Last Hurrah of the PRR by Ewalt. Anyone know anything about the book? Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 17:26:10 -0000 Subject: Re: [PRR] Homasote instability again From: From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 12:34:39 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Merry Christmas and a Horseshoe Question X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Todd, Looking in Pgh Div ETT No.7 of Sept.29,1946, G.O.no.709 of 12-6-46 puts rule 261(bi-directional) into effect between "BF" (BENNY) and "MG" on #3 track. G.O 713,12-23-46, between "MG" & "GY" on #3 and G.O. 716,1-6-47,between "GY" & "SLOPE" on #3. I happened to have that ETT out. I think it was done from "BF" westward a little earlier but I can't get to them right now. Pat ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 13:01:47 EST Subject: [PRR] Dimensional Instability of Wood Products with Humidity X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 12/27/2004 1:12:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: Subject: Re: [PRR] Happy Holidays & What'd You Get? From: "Jerry @ Pennsy" Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 20:56:01 -0500 On Dec 26, 2004, at 11:29 AM, wrote: > My wonderful wife got me a BLI M1a and a heater for my basement train > room! I must have been good this year! Be careful about using temporary heating solutions if your roadbed is homasote. It will swell and contract with the temperature changes and contort your track out of alignment. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com On the prototype, it's necessary to lay rail with an allowance for the effects of temperature changes. If this is not done, the rails can get enough longer in hot weather to create "sun kinks". As a physicist and model railroader, let me say this as gently as possible -- neither Homosote nor plywood nor nickel silver rail nor even brass rail is affected perceptibly by temperature changes you will have indoors. The coefficients of expansion are simply too small relative to the cracks at the ends of slabs or joints in one-meter rail segments. OTH, every wiinter something raises hob with model railroads -- this is humidity. As the outside thermometer plunges, the amount of water vapor carried in the air goes down radically. All wood, paper products (including Homosote, which is pressed newsprint), layout dimensional lumber, etc. even pressure treated wood, contains quite a bit of water in its mass, and some of this evaporates when the air in a house dries out. The water loss is reflected in shrinkage. The only way for a wood product to be dimensionally stable with humidity changes is if it has been carefully sealed on all sides, which is why some people (not me) paint their Homosote. On the now-dismantled Columbus Division, the benchwork was solidly fastened to both ends of the basement. The first winter, the benchwork and roadbed shrank away from the middle, leaving me a quarter inch gap in the rails in the middle of a 48 foot unballasted run. I cured this by unsoldering the joints every 2 meters so the track could "float" a little and distribute the shrinking and the summer swelling 6 months later. You can imagine that, if I had this much shrinkage in a semi-air-conditioned basement, humidity affects would be larger if starting from a humid summer basement, or from a leaky garage. Besides sealing everything, one oft-prescribed cure is to run a humidifier in the train room; I had one added to our forced-air system that benefited the whole house in the winter. However, my recommendation is to build a layout, expecting and allowing for humidity affects. My reasoning is that the shrinkage is probably proportional to absolute humitidy change, and it consumes a lot of electrical power to take it out of your air in the summer, or push it into your air in the winter. Beware of trying to make sense out of this problem using "relative humidity" measures from the weather bureau. Relative humidity simply measures the water vapor content against how much air can carry at ambient; the same relative humidity in the summer means radically more water vapor than in the winter. Hope this helps your understanding. I recommend leaving small gaps in the rails unless you're laying track in the "humid season". Also, if you use flextrack, don't ballast it until it's gone one annual cycle without trouble. Happy New Year (and happy model railroading)... Rick Tipton - Louisville Kentucky Building a new PRR Buckeye Division in HO (1966-1968) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 14:10:32 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] Dimensional Instability of Wood Products X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 12/27/2004 1:14:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, RickTipton@aol.com writes: > I recommend leaving small gaps in the rails unless you're laying track in > the "humid season". Also, if you use flextrack, don't ballast it until it's > gone one annual cycle without trouble. > At last! A practical excuse for those large parts of the layout that nevr get sceniced once the trains are running! Lee Rainey ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Triumph VII Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 14:19:16 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I'm surprised I have only seem one brief mention of Triumph VII on either list, and no discussion of it. Either noone got it, or noone has had time to go through it. Interestingly, I haven't seen it advertised, either. I picked my copy up the day before the official release date at English's Model Railroad Supply in Montoursville PA near Williamsport, right in the heart of Triumph VII territory. So, as one extremely interested in the Buffalo line from Williamsport to Keating Summit in particular, plus Erie and Buffalo, I'll offer a few comments to kick things off. To me, the biggest selling point of the Triumph books is the pictures. I've been beating the bushes for a few years for pictures of Williamsport in the steam era, and there were a few in Triumph VII I've never seen before - real gems! Nothing new on Renovo that I haven't seen or don't have, or at least one similar. Not much on Emporium, except for a 1917 (I believe) picture of the huge wooden coal dock that's a real gem. Ah, but Keating Summit - they really covered KS Tower, the station, passing track, the wye, and had some great pictures of both the steam and diesel era - great action shots. And WR tower at Wrights was nicely covered - I'd never seen a picture of it, either. Some good shots of Erie and Buffalo. In general, the book covered well a huge geographical area - the Buffalo line, the P&E to Erie, the lines in Western PA, Elmira Branch, etc - an amazingly large area to cover, and it was covered over a very long historical period - well before 1850 through the Conrail era. Hard to do in one volume and give any one area much attention. However, this is an area that simply hasn't had much attention in print and it's nice to have a book with nice detail and priceless photographs. As I understand the Triumph series, they've been coming out at about the rate of a volume per year. They've now covered well the PRR from Pittsburgh east, so you lines west folks should now have your years of glory. As a Buffalo Line fan who's waited a long, long, time for attention, I imagine you're fairly salivating at the prospect. Congratulations on Triumph VII, another excellent volume! Bill Bigler - 4915 Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 14:33:56 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Triumph VII From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Monday, December 27, 2004, at 02:19 PM, William Bigler wrote: > I'm surprised I have only seem one brief mention of Triumph VII on > either > list, and no discussion of it. Either noone got it, or noone has had > time > to go through it. Interestingly, I haven't seen it advertised, > either. I > picked my copy up the day before the official release date at English's > Model Railroad Supply in Montoursville PA near Williamsport, right in > the > heart of Triumph VII territory. I got it in (for resale) about three weeks ago. I filled reservations and had a few spares which quickly sold out. According to UPS, more are due tomorrow. I made an announcement on the Merchandise Service list, but I typically refrain from such announcements on PRR-talk and PRR-FAX. > > So, as one extremely interested in the Buffalo line from Williamsport > to > Keating Summit in particular, plus Erie and Buffalo, I'll offer a few > comments to kick > things off. To me, the biggest selling point of the Triumph books is > the > pictures. I've been beating the bushes for a few years for pictures of > Williamsport in the steam era, and there were a few in Triumph VII I've > never seen before - real gems! I agree. Where the Triumph series often contains factual errors, there always seem to be some gems of photos in each volume, making each release a "must have". However, on that note, I found volume seven to be the least worthy of them all. The largest fault, I felt, was in its organization. It seems generally disjointed, skipping all over the place. And some aspects of the territory covered weren't covered at all! Like the interchange at Wilkes-Barre with the D&H were the D&H had one of their main produce terminals. Through this interchange came all of those "STATE OF MAINE POTATOS" bound for Philadelphia. I thought the coverage of the Elmira Branch was rather lacking, though Gunnarson did this fairly well in his book, "The History of the Northern Central Railway". So, was the object to be "complete"? Or to "not duplicate"? I suspect they just had to dig harder for content. There were probably a handful of contacts that provided 90% of the content on the previous volumes. Doubt that was the case for the Northern Region. I know years ago I offered val maps of the entire Sodus Point area and was told they weren't needed. Nor were they included. > > As I understand the Triumph series, they've been coming out at about > the > rate of a volume per year. Correct, each fall for several years now. We've known the volume by volume plan for years now, but I've heard nothing beyond the current volume. No insult intended, but west of Pittsburgh the "disjointed" presentation would likely continue. Would additional books be successful? I don't know. Their best bet might be to focus on the western gateways -- Chicago and St. Louis -- as a volume. > > Congratulations on Triumph VII, another excellent volume! > Despite the few "negatives" I pointed out, I still think it's one for the collection. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: WAMMP236@aol.com Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 16:25:21 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Homasote instability again X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hello List, I too have used homasote and have never had problems. Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bill Morlitz Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] Dimensional Instability of Wood Products with Humidity Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 17:37:37 -0500 To: PRR Talk X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Dec 27, 2004, at 2:10 PM, LeeRainey@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/27/2004 1:14:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, > RickTipton@aol.com writes: > > >> I recommend leaving small gaps in the rails unless you're laying >> track in >> the "humid season". Also, if you use flextrack, don't ballast it >> until it's >> gone one annual cycle without trouble. >> > > At last! A practical excuse for those large parts of the layout that > nevr get > sceniced once the trains are running! > > Lee Rainey I should have mentioned that when I put the Homasote on top of the plywood, I left a penny's gap between the pieces to allow for some expansion/contraction. Happy New Year, Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RBurg74133@aol.com Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 18:12:52 EST Subject: [PRR] RE: John Ewalt's Book X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Chris, As I remember the book is a biography of Ewalt and his involvement with the PRR. A lot of financial stuff and his contributions to the Real Estate department which is where he worrked. I knew Mr. Ewalt I used to caddy for him at Aromimink Golf Club Newtown Square, Pa. There were other PRR officials as members i.e. Pete Fox and Lester Gingrich. Hope you enjoy it. Ray Burghart SPF ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Hough " Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 17:54:29 -0600 Subject: [PRR] PRR SD 45 From: "Ken Hough " Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 18:00:25 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Alco PA-FA Photos Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 16:07:20 -0800 Subject: [PRR] PRR Lettering From: Greg Ritacco Message-Id: <712C4706-5864-11D9-86C1-000A959FDA52@surewest.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=216.93.194.38 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi Group, I have three sets of letters and numbers I traced from company drawings. I would like to make each its own font but am too lazy to learn fontographer. Is there someone on this list who mind making the three fonts? PC or Mac, I don't care. Thanks and Happy New Year to all. Greg Ritacco ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Homasote instability again Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 18:21:16 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I have a different theory altogether. I believe a bigger culprit is the plywood. I am talking about extremes here, and I am talking about humidity, not temperature (though related). We have a layout room which is subject to the weather, for all intents and purposes. Hot and humid in the summer. Our landlord shuts his store down in the winter and sets the temperature down to the 40s between our operating sessions. The humidity is very low as any moisture in the building is sucked into the Wisconsin winter air. The plywood shrinks and the forceof the wood contracting exceeds that of homasote re the roadbed and rails. Even the biggest rail gaps sometimes disappear and we have buckling. I believe the homasote is not the prime culprit in many of the other cases and that also may be why the modeler who uses splined homasote doesn't have much problem with it. Of course, if your layout room is even remotely conditioned for temp and humidity, you won't see the problems we do. IMNSHO YMMV Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bill Morlitz Subject: Re: [PRR] Homasote instability again Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 20:36:25 -0500 To: PRR Talk X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Dec 27, 2004, at 7:21 PM, Bob Zoeller wrote: > I have a different theory altogether. I believe a bigger culprit is the > plywood. I am talking about extremes here, and I am talking about > humidity, > not temperature (though related). We have a layout room which is > subject to > the weather, for all intents and purposes. Hot and humid in the > summer. > Our landlord shuts his store down in the winter and sets the > temperature > down to the 40s between our operating sessions. The humidity is very > low as > any moisture in the building is sucked into the Wisconsin winter air. > > The plywood shrinks and the forceof the wood contracting exceeds that > of > homasote re the roadbed and rails. Even the biggest rail gaps sometimes > disappear and we have buckling. > > I believe the homasote is not the prime culprit in many of the other > cases > and that also may be why the modeler who uses splined homasote doesn't > have > much problem with it. > > Of course, if your layout room is even remotely conditioned for temp > and > humidity, you won't see the problems we do. > > IMNSHO YMMV > > Bob Zoeller Bob, I agree that depending on the grade of plywood, it could be more affected than Homasote. I also sealed all exposed edges of the plywood except for the side that I used Liquid Nails on to join the Homasote. Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Hough " Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 19:41:13 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Homasote instability again Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 22:20:01 -0500 (EST) From: Will Enser Subject: Re: [PRR] Alco PA-FA Photos From: "Ken Hough " Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 22:11:54 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Alco PA-FA Photos From: Cprrboss@aol.com Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 19:35:52 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 12/28/04 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 12/28/04 1:12:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Dimensional Instability of Wood Products with Humidity > From: > I have been using homasote laminated to plywood for roadbed for more than 30 years. I agree with and do everything Rick Tipton says. There is one additional "trick" I use that many of you might not agree with but, it works for me. That is where I used new homasote and the track is unseen and unballasted, I pull or leave out some track nails and let the flex track find its own home. If you would climb under my layout and look at certain area's you would see some mighty strange looking track work, sort of like a snake. But, like I said, it works for me and presents no problems. BOB MARTIN, President & Superintendent Central Pennsylvania Railroad (CPRR) (HO Scale) A Penn Family Line cprrboss@aol.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 13:40:36 -0600 From: "Rev. Bob 'Bob' Crispen" Subject: Re: [PRR] Alco PA-FA Photos Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com The voices are telling me Ken Hough said on 12/27/2004 6:00 PM: > I'm a firm believer of the internet. Search engines are great, google > beng the best. But for some reason I'm not finding a site devoted to > ALCo PAs or FAs. Is there one? anyone? I suspect you know all about these, but just on the off chance, there's some information and photos of the Alcos on Keystone Crossings: And there's an Alco/Baldwin/F&M modeling group on Yahoo: And a couple of ALCO prototype groups: And this site turned up in my mammoth list of bookmarks which will soon be updated: Since I'm keeping my bookmarks on a server so Firefox can easily synchronize them between machines and since they're now stored in a variety of XML, I'm going to whip up a little set of XSLT rules and hook them up to a little PHP script so I won't have to extract them from my bookmarks any more (probably more than you wanted to know). Just for laughs you might want to try some of the other search engines. I like dogpile.com and maybe altavista and lycos are still out there? -- Rev. Bob "Bob" Crispen bob at crispen dot org Ex Cathedra Weblog: http://blog.crispen.org/ What we're looking for: destinations. What we end up getting: journeys. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: [PRR] PRR T&HS Discussion Group & National B-1 truck Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 18:28:16 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Lists, I was planning to ask in the PRR Modeling discussion on the PRR = Discussion Group on the PRRT&HS website about the use of National B-1 = trucks on PRR freight cars. But the site appears to be down or "having = upstream server problems" whatever that means. Anyone know what's = happening? Micro-Trains makes the National B-1 truck in N scale and I bought a = pair. I see that this truck was accorded a number of different PRR = classes depending on journal size, but I could not find a reference as = to which cars it was used under. Anyone know if it was in common use on = any particular car class? Thanks for any help here. Gregg Mahlkov, PRRT&HS #7418 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR T&HS Discussion Group & National B-1 truck Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:28:27 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <000601c4edfe$13fdc210$91699e0c@DDPXT351> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Gregg Mahlkov asked: "Micro-Trains makes the National B-1 truck in N scale and I bought a pair. I see that this truck was accorded a number of different PRR classes depending on journal size, but I could not find a reference as to which cars it was used under. Anyone know if it was in common use on any particular car class?" Rob Schoenberg's website has scans of several Freight Car Classification publications listing trucks used by freight car class: http://prr.railfan.net/freight/PRRFreightCarTrucks.html One caution about these publications - if the truck is used by just one car in the class, it's listed under that class. In other words, you can't assume commonality from this list alone. I recommend that you use photos to verify trucks for specific cars. 50-ton National B-1 trucks were the following PRR classes: 2D-F13 2D-F20 Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hipes" Subject: [PRR] Transamerica TrucTrain Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 04:12:06 +0000 From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:05:57 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Transamerica TrucTrain MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi Steve, PRR-Transamerica was symbolled "TT-Spl". The train ran only once a week. I think this train was operated for 2 or 3 years. Hope this helps. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: OhThoseVoices@aol.com Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 04:07:14 EST Subject: [PRR] now accepting custom scratchbuilding orders X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Listers... After a six year sabbatical,I am now back into business making locomotives of the electric type,and other "not found" items in N scale.As a model maker for many years,Basically,I can make anything with the mill and or lathe.My prices are reasonable,and the quality is good.Notify me at ohthosevoices@aol.com or, Jeff Jacobs c/o Model Creations 1341 Mantle Street Parkville,Maryland,21234 410-882-5529 cell..410-292-9052 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Clockers Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:38:12 +0000 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Were clockers P-70's until the end for the most part? What other car types were included? Thank you. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR T&HS Discussion Group & National B-1 truck Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 10:40:49 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <000601c4edfe$13fdc210$91699e0c@DDPXT351> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com PRR Discussion Group on the PRRT&HS is working fine on Thursday morning. E-Z Board may have been doing some maintenance. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 13:18:21 -0600 From: "Rev. Bob 'Bob' Crispen" Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Alco PA-FA Photos Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I jabbered something indecipherable about: > Since I'm keeping my bookmarks on a server so Firefox can easily > synchronize them between machines and since they're now stored in a > variety of XML, I'm going to whip up a little set of XSLT rules and hook > them up to a little PHP script so I won't have to extract them from my > bookmarks any more (probably more than you wanted to know). Here's what I was talking about: . Anybody who wants to play with the code, there's links there to readable versions of the script and the ruleset. And for other folks, feel free to grab them, and if you happen to know of a link that's moved, send it to me and I'll update it in my bookmarks. One of these days I'll have a script that just extracts the railroading links and leaves it in XBEL format so you can merge it with your bookmarks if you want. Give me a little time to think about how to do that. It sounds easy, but may turn out to be tricky. There is a definite PRR connection, besides the links. The background of the page is what I take to be Tuscan Red. -- Rev. Bob "Bob" Crispen bob at crispen dot org Ex Cathedra Weblog: http://blog.crispen.org/ I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education. - Wilson Mizner ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 13:59:32 -0800 (PST) From: Frank Smith Subject: [PRR] PRR whistles Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 17:34:29 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR whistles From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com > Does anyone know a good source to find information on > whistle types used on Pennsylvania locomotives? I'm > especially interested in those used on yard switchers > such as the B class O-6-0 steamers and electrics. Frank, Freight and switching locomotives were equipped with a single chime "banshee" whistle. According to O.P. Orr (Set Up Running) these whistles actually were quite pleasant until boiler pressures were increased. Passenger steam locomotioves were equipped with 3 chime whistles such as can be heard at Gary Mittner's web site (http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/K4s.wav). The only electrics that I know that had whistles for any length of time wer the B1 rats and MP54s. The rest of the electric fleet went with single blat air horns like the ones on the GG1 shortly after they were built. There is some disagreement on the issue of whether the S1 and T1s had horns as well as whistles. Therer is good evidence that the S1 did and reasonable evidence that at least the two prototype T1s had horns in addition to their whistles. Regards Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Joseph Witcofsky" Subject: RE: [PRR] Transamerica TrucTrain Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 18:40:16 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out002.verizon.net from [68.162.55.66] at Thu, 30 Dec 2004 17:40:17 -0600 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com According to Eastern Region TT # 17, 04-26-1964, on Page 286, SI 1157-C1 Note; ......TT, LCL, CB, AST-2, CG-2, CG-8 and Trans. Amer. Special... are permitted to operate at speeds of 60 mph. The Arranged Freight Train Service for the New York, Philadelphia and Harrisburg Divisions shows entries for "TTX Spe". In several locations. As I recall, subsequent Eastern Region TT SI 1157-C1, referred to the train as the Trans American without any further symbol. Same with the Astronaut which did have symbols (AST-2; AST-4). ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 18:55:43 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR whistles MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Frank, list, .....and here is the great music from a PRR freight 'Banshee": http://www.trainweb.org/wnyrhs/I1sa.wav Boy I wish I would have purchased that one when one was offered to me.... .........Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html PRR N5c #477974 Restoration (ongoing) http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 18:00:34 -0600 (CST) Subject: [PRR] Broadway Limited K7A stock car From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hello Folks, A 4 pack of Broadway Limited PRR K7A stock cars arrived in todays mail. I have good news, and I have bad news.... (please excuse the cross posting) Mostly, the news looks pretty good. I haven't taken a micrometer to the car yet, but it appears to be well done. The body is plastic and the underbody is metal. There is moderate underbody detail, although the AB valve is just a blob. The car is equipped with Kadee #5 couplers in a Kadee box (Those of you grinding out H2A boxes will appreciate that!). The paint and lettering is greatly improved over the pre-production model, due to the intervention of PRRT&HS Modeling Committee member Ben Hom. I would judge the color as close to a post WWII FCC. The reweigh dates on all four cars is P330, 10-46. The bad news... The car has opening doors. In order to do this, the upper claws are oversized and the lower rail, which should be a round pipe, is a molded blob. Speaking of molded blobs, lets move on to the trucks. I think I'm being nice when I call these "poor". BLI has provided what appears to be a PRR 2D-F12 truck, which had a combination of coil and leaf springs. A nice HO version of this truck has be available from Bowser for years, so why BLI has released a truck that is orders of magnitude worse is puzzling. Add to that the BLI has used a completely bizarre truck mounting system that makes swapping trucks far more difficult than it should be, and you simply have to ask "HELLO?? Um has anyone at BLI ever heard of RPs and standards????" The trucks have a tall cylinder at the top of the bolster that fits over a cylinder on the bolster. Mounting the Bowser trucks leaves the car far too low, however this ill-conceived bolster arrangement makes it difficult to use washers to get the car to the correct height. I'm sure I'll figure it out tonight, and then those BLI trucks will head for the TRASH, which is exactly where they belong. So, overall, a nice car, but once again BLI hits a double, not a home run... Regards Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR whistles Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 23:29:56 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com First time I ever heard there was any disagreement. I thought it was fairly well documented, but I reserve the right to check the documentation for reliability when I am less sleepy :-). Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: > There is some disagreement on the issue of whether the S1 and T1s had > horns as well as whistles. Therer is good evidence that the S1 did and > reasonable evidence that at least the two prototype T1s had horns in > addition to their whistles. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 12:25:28 GMT Subject: [PRR] Horns and Whistles From: "Ken Hough " Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 10:37:59 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Horns and Whistles Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 09:55:22 -0800 From: Ron Dugas Subject: Re: [PRR] Horns and Whistles Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi All, Pulled out my copy of "Loco Profile 24 - Pennsylvania Duplexii". Two photos of the S1 show quite clearly what I see as an air horn. Photo at bottom of page 265, a front "3/4?" shot of the engineer's side shows it tucked under the nose inboard and a little ahead of the steps up to the running board approximately under where the nose hand rail ends. Head on pic on page 266 concurs and shows the "bell" of the horn to have a diameter approximately equal to rise in the steps though I believe that perspective distorts that and it isn't actually that big. My N-Scale #6100 has the horn in the location pictured in the photos. None of the pics or the prototype or production T1s, including the painting in the center spread, show any horn but we all know that's not conclusive. I would think it would be mounted out in the open so it would be most audible but that's an assumption. Respectfully, Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JWTrains@aol.com Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 14:49:42 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Horns and Whistles X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Also the turbine engine number 6200 had both a horn an a whistle. The S2 turbine 6200 had both a horn and a whistle. I was able to obtain various erection prints from the PRR in the early sixties and the side elevation show a horn behind the air cooler shield. The cross sections show the horn was mounted on the left side while the bell was on the right. Jim Williams ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!!