From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Re: [PRR] "fishbelly" hoppers Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 00:13:19 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75, clamav-milter version 0.75 on net.bluemoon.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Western Maryland had some also. See top photo page 105 of Ball's Pennsylvania RR 1940's and 50's Brian J Carlson P.E. Cheektowaga NY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Miller" To: "'Walter Prusick'" ; Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 6:33 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] "fishbelly" hoppers > N&W. Class H1, I believe. I have several Stewarts which I run in a N&W cut > with ECW H2a's. > > regards, > > Andy Miller > > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Walter > Prusick > Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 6:25 PM > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] "fishbelly" hoppers > > Guys, > > Did any of the railroads which interchanged with the Pennsy in the Western > PA area have a fishbelly hopper (ala Stewart Hobbies) on/in their roster? If > so which one/s and whom should I contact to get some information? I intended > to do a couple of GLca, until I got around to Mr. Teichmoeller's book. Close > (maybe) but no cigar. > > Thanks in advance, > Walt Prusick > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 02:05:58 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] "fishbelly" hoppers X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Walt writes: Guys, Did any of the railroads which interchanged with the Pennsy in the Western, PA area have a fishbelly hopper (ala Stewart Hobbies) on/in their roster? If so which one/s and whom should I contact to get some information? I intended to do a couple of GLca, until I got around to Mr. Teichmoeller's book. Close (maybe) but no cigar. Thanks in advance, Walt Prusick Walt, The P&WV had cars similar to, but not exactly the same as the Stewart WM "fishbelly" hoppers. I have a photo of the gray P&WV cars with black lettering that were used in limestone service. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: RE: [PRR] "fishbelly" hoppers Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 14:40:29 +0000 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Walt Prusick asked: "Did any of the railroads which interchanged with the Pennsy in the Western PA area have a fishbelly hopper (ala Stewart Hobbies) on/in their roster? If so which one/s and whom should I contact to get some information?" The Stewart model most closely matches WM 10001-10500, built in 1939. WM 10501-10800, 10801-12400, 12401-13400, 13401-14400 can also be modeled from this kit by modifying the model with a Duryea cushion underframe. The kit has ladders, which only matches the WM cars and 100 cars built in 1942 for the AC&Y. Fortunately, the ladders are separate parts, and if you replace the ladders with grab irons, you can model cars from the following roads: C&I D&H LV (C&O secondhand user - 1956) N&W (Class HL, NOT H-1 - modify end supports and add peaked ends) If you carefully remove the rivets, you can model welded cars for the following roads: CNJ/CRP (B&O secondhand user) RDG See Alan Mende's article in the June 1994 Railmodel Journal on modeling these cars. ACL and NS also had these cars. More information on all of these cars can be found on the pay side of the RPI website. http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Hoppers/95-2-Hoppers-fishbelly-side-types.asp "I intended to do a couple of GLca, until I got around to Mr. Teichmoeller's book. Close (maybe) but no cigar." Unless you've had a 12-pack of Guinness, not even close. Wrong number of ribs, side profile, ends, and the model is too large. In the end, you'd put in more work than you would have if you built a Westerfield GLCA. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 18:59:08 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR Items for Sale Part 1 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com List I have the following items for sale. Please contact OFF list with the above subject with questions. Prices DO NOT incl shp. A couple of the items are big and heavy.I do work out of town so responses may not be right away. PRR CT 1000E Nov 1,1923-Very good cond $ 95 PRR CT 1000E 5-1-45,Very Good cond. $35 PRR CT 1000C 5-1-45,Very Good Cond $85 PRR Loco Test Plant Book No.21 for Class E6 $20 PRR Altoona Shops & Yards,Shows shop layout & complete yd $25 PRR Station Plan Book,Copy of 1907 book,71 stations E. of Pgh, a front view, a cross sect. view & shows location, 8 towers, sig bridges-2 thru 8 tracks wide. 90 pgs, 8-1/2 x11 $25 PRR Middle Division Interlocking Plants, Copy of 1914-1917 plans,Banks to Slope, Hollidaysburg Br,Morison Cove Br, 50 pgs,8-1/2 x 14 $25 PRR Map of 1881 MainLine from Alt. to Johnstown,Alleg. Portage RR & inclines, New Portage Br,Blue print copied from original linen. $9 PRR Mine Card & Revenue Waybill,has 3 copies with carbon paper $1 PRR Pocket calenders-1957 & 1960 $ 6 PRR Land Book of 1890 for South West Pennsylvania RailWay $350.00 PRR CT1515 Qualification Card-New,never issued $6 PRR MW200 Machinery Qualification Card- New,never issued $5 PRR MW52(D) Manual of Instructions for MW Equip. NO COVER, dated 1-1-60,very good cond. $21 PRR MW52(D) Unused,Excellent Cond $27 PRR C.E. 78 Manual for construction,unused, excellent cond. $27 PRR Demurrage Card-pad, unused $5 PRR Application for Position-Pad of 100 unused,for bidding on jobs $5 PRR Deposit Slip book-Pad,unused $5 PRR Annual Report-1925 $30 PRR Annual Report-1945 $25 PRR Annual Report-1951 $25 PRR Annual Reports-1953,58 $12 PRR Annual Reports-1952,55,59,60,61,62 $15 PRR 1st Annual Report 1848 (1894 reprint)Front cover loose,pages brittle $45 PRR Mid. Div ETT No.9 4-27-47 $35 PRR Mid. Div ETT No.13 4-24-49 $35 PRR Mid. Div ETT No.3 9-28-52 $30 PRR Mid. Mid. Div No.6 4-25-54 $30 PRR Pgh. Div. ETT No.16, 4-29-51,VG used cond,w/G.O.'s $30 PRR Pgh. Div. ETT No.4, 10-27-57,VG used cond,wG.O.'s $25 PRR Pgh. Div. ETT No.5, 4-27-58,VGused cond w/G.O.'s $25 PRR Pgh. Div. ETT No.8, 10-25-59,VG used cond,not issued $25 PRR Pgh. Div. ETT No.11,10-29-61,VG used cond,w/G.O.'s $20 PRR Pgh. Div. ETT No.12,10-28-62, VG used cond,w/G.O.'s $20 PRR Cent. Reg.ETT No.4, 10-27-67,Good used cond,has all G.O.'s $20 Thank you Pat McKinney ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 19:00:28 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR Items for Sale Part 2 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com List I have the following items for sale. Please contact OFF list with the above subject with questions. Prices DO NOT incl shp. A couple of the items are big and heavy.I do work out of town so responses may not be right away. PRR Elec. Opr. Inst.,1960 rev.,VG cond, unissued $9 PRR Book of Rules,10-28-56,VG cond,unissued $9 PRR Pennsy Electric Years,VG used cond,clean $30 PRR Storage stamps for baggage-full book of 100 - 5 cents, 35 cents, 75 cents $10 ea.bk PRR Leather Conductors wallet (well used)name still visible $5 PRR 25 year Bronze service pin $30 PRR 40 year Silver service pin $30 PRR Adlake Sw Lantern,Good Cond,with font but missing end on wick riser Yel-Yel,Green-wht,lens-targets,heavy $290.00 PRR Lounger Car Smoking Stand,Good used cond,not perfect,as it came out of the lounge car,Heavy $475.00 PRR Flag & Fusee Case $45 PRR Stainless Steel water can,Very Good cond $45 PRR Keystone Whislte Sign,Excellent cond,Repainted( had to before the pigeon dirt corroded it),Heavy $250 PC CT-225-G Haz. Mtl. Reg-plastic cover,good cond $12 PC 1969 Annual Report-Fair cond-water mark $5 PC MW1-New Unused $ 15 PC MW4-Used but excellent cond,field notes on some pages,1section for inspection,2nd section for construction $12 PC MW4 - New cond,no cover $10 PC MW4 - New Cond,unused $15 PC Conductor & Trainman Hat Badges $40 PC Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform $40 PC Stainless Steel water can,VG used cond $45 PC Long neck Journal oil can,VG used cond $40 CR C&S Signal plans,Blue CR logo on cover,NEW,not issued $100 CR Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform $40 CR Annual Report-1982,83,85,86,87 $12 CR MW-4,NEW,never used,has a couple of small rub marks across logo but other wise excellent. $30 CR Safety Committee sewn patch,blue background,white logo and letters $10 CR First Aid Kit,Opened,one or two packets used,VG cond,a must for train room $35 Pullman Brass Car Door handles-From Heavyweight PRR Sleepers,old former camp cars,some dinges and dents mostly to door knob,latch moves,heavy $35 Great Northern Atlas N scale FA1 (2 units)-older stock,not run,tested only $55pr Atlas SD7,w/DB, undec,new ,never run,cracked plastic box $45 Atlas SD9,NKP,no DB,new ,never run,w/plastic box $45 EL ETT #4 2-24-74 $15 1905 Handbook of Railroad Securities, fair cond,spine taped outside but solid inside,back cover broken but is taped,old leather like cover w/gold lettering on front. Stocks,Bonds,Income for various RR's, $25 Thank you. Pat McKinney ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 21:51:37 -0400 From: bearcreekwest@netscape.net Subject: [PRR] GP9 Question Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com While reading the Withers book on Early EMD Road Switchers, noticed comment that the last GP9s ordered (order 5570 with 48" cooling fans)didn't come with Trainphone antenna. Also had noticed previously that none of the GP9s in pictures had Trainphone antenna. Were there any exceptions? Thanks Don Arizona __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 21:55:23 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR Items for Sale Part 2 CORRECTION X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com List, The PC Conductors and Trainman hat badges are $40 ea. Missed that in the checking process.Sorry for any confusion. PM ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] GP9 Question Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 07:36:21 -0500 From: "Bill Volkmer" X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Actually the last order for PRR GP-9s came in two distinct groups with = about a year or so delay between them, as I recall from memory. I = believe the order was for something like 100 units. (Actually there = were 250 units including SD-9s, RSD-15s, and RS-11s). When the first = 50 GP-9s were built (in late 1957 without trainphone equipment) there = was a severe downturn in traffic. Several things happened = simultaneously. A- The last steam was abruptly killed on the Pennsy. = B- The 50 Geeps (7180-7229) were delivered directly to the N&W on lease = since they were not needed on the PRR, and C- THe N&W pretty much = dieselized their whole railroad, using leased Pennsy Geeps. =20 Then in the fall of 1959, business picked up and the following chain of = events occurred. The N&W went back to steam (at least a few), the = leased PRR Geeps came home at last, and the final 40 GP-9s (7230-7269) = and 10 GP-9Bs (7230B-7239B) were delivered directly to the PRR at Enola. =20 What happened in between the two groups of 50 units was a major design = change in the air-brake system. The last group became the first units = on the PRR to have the then new 26c brake equipment, replacing the old = 24RL system. 26 brake equipment remains standard on all railroads to = this day. Trainphone equipment was not installed because of the = impending conversion of the system to radios, the exact type and style = of which would remain under debate until about 1964. =20 There has been some debate over the years as to whether these units were = technically GP-18s, but I believe the PRR units had 567C engines = (standard to all PRR GP-9s) and the GP-18s had 567D engines and none = were bought by the Pennsy. =20 Hope this helps Bill Volkmer ________________________________ From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com on behalf of bearcreekwest@netscape.net Sent: Wed 9/1/2004 8:51 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] GP9 Question While reading the Withers book on Early EMD Road Switchers, noticed = comment that the last GP9s ordered (order 5570 with 48" cooling = fans)didn't come with Trainphone antenna. Also had noticed previously = that none of the GP9s in pictures had Trainphone antenna. Were there = any exceptions? Thanks Don Arizona __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at = http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Whalthers coaches Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 14:02:04 +0000 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Are either the 48 seat or the 52 seat coaches prototypical for the PRR? If so in what service were they used? Thank you, Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Whalthers coaches Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 14:02:04 +0000 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Are either the 48 seat or the 52 seat coaches prototypical for the PRR? If so in what service were they used? Thank you, Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:00:02 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Tower Sheets Still Needed From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <87D6B61A-FD01-11D8-856D-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Semi-annual appeal... I am still looking for a tower sheet from 1954 from a tower west of Harrisburg, but east of Altoona. For the 40+ trains I am attempting to depict as accurately as possible, the tower sheets would provide the loco numbers. While I am not a stickler for the exact numbers, it would tell me the class of motive power, which is what I am really after. BANKS would be the ideal tower, though VIEW and west would provide good info. ROCKVILLE or HARRIS would provide much of the data as well. If you have such a sheet, or a Dispatcher's sheet, please contact me off-list. Thank you. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:59:06 -0400 Subject: [PRR] 1954 Passenger Roster Update From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I've posted another batch of data to the searchable roster of passenger equipment as of 1954. http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/varnish/ All of the known sleeper assignments are now included, as are many of the diner assignments. I'm still working on the diners, then its back to the lightweight sleepers for further data. I also have included references to published photos. So far I have referenced about 40 of my 60 or so books, though the books that will yield the most photos are yet to be indexed. Still, it's a start. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walter Prusick" Subject: [PRR] fishbelly hoppers (reply) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 20:00:14 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Guys, A tip of the hat to those who responded to my question concerning that Stewart hopper. Looks like I'll be going the route of the Western Maryland for interchange purposes. Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 19:13:29 -0500 Subject: [PRR] 1966 train sheets, Crestline-Ft. Wayne From: Frederick Ripley Cc: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] 1966 train sheets, Crestline-Ft. Wayne Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 06:39:45 -0400 To: Frederick Ripley X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Sep 2, 2004, at 8:13 PM, Frederick Ripley wrote: > Jerry's request for 1954 tower sheets reminded me that I would love > to see some from 1966 (or 1967), anywhere between Crestline, OH, and > Adams, > IN (could be Colsan, Upper Sandusky, Forest, Dunkirk, etc.). I know > this > is probably a long shot, but no harm in asking. I'd of course be > happy to > pay for any copy costs, or purchase copies, or trade xeroxes from my > collection. Please contact me off list. Fred: I forget which tower it was, but Ted Andrews gave a presentation at Cincinnati based on his possession of tower sheets for an entire year for one location. It was somewhere on Lines West. Maybe he'll chime in here... ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 07:33:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] 1966 train sheets, Crestline-Ft. Wayne From: Frederick Ripley From: "DON MURPHY" Subject: [PRR] Summer of '82 Model Railroading magazine Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 09:02:31 -0400 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Guys, Does any one have a copy of the summer of '82 Model Railroading magazine?? There is an article on the PS&N in it I need to copy. Please let me know. Thanks. Don ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 11:35:18 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: ealauterbach@earthlink.net Subject: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com With the coaches, sleepers, and baggage cars now coming out in plastic RTR , is there any chance we will see some Pennsy diners or observations. Are the any out there now, besides the Rivarossi tail end car. Thanks, Eric ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 11:46:07 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Friday, September 3, 2004, at 11:35 AM, ealauterbach@earthlink.net wrote: > With the coaches, sleepers, and baggage cars now coming out in plastic > RTR , is there any chance we will see some Pennsy diners or > observations. Are the any out there now, besides the Rivarossi tail > end car. Just an opinion... The P85b coaches often ran several to a train... this translates into a bigger market. The B60b baggage cars often ran several to a train, and sometimes interchanged to other roads... again, this translates into a bigger market. The Pennsy diners were unique to the Pennsy, and only ran one per train... a comparatively limited market. I believe at some point someone will probably do a PRR diner, but I doubt there will be variety. Most likely candidate would be a D78d, with a secondary nod to a D85c/D85d twin unit. If a good modular heavyweight core kit would come along, it would really open the door for laser cut side manufacturers to address the many varieties of D70's and D78's that were out there. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 09:04:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 12:11:24 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Friday, September 3, 2004, at 12:04 PM, Bill Daniels wrote: > From a highly reliable source I have heard that there > is an excellent chance we will be seeing some > additional PRR cars of this type in the near > future...but more than that I cannot comment on at > this time. There is a mid-train lounge in the works. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 09:23:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 12:35:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Friday, September 3, 2004, at 12:23 PM, Bill Daniels wrote: > From what I've heard there is much more than that > coming. I was addressing only single cars from current sources, those being Walthers, Branchline, and InterMountain. I imaging BLI will probably do a complete PRR train, though I am led to believe it will not be a PRR train that follows their current "Zephyr" offering. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-Talk , ealauterbach@earthlink.net From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 11:42:13 -0500 To: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Sep 3, 2004, at 10:46 AM, Jerry Britton opines: > On Friday, September 3, 2004, at 11:35 AM, ealauterbach@earthlink.net > wrote: > >> With the coaches, sleepers, and baggage cars now coming out in >> plastic RTR , is there any chance we will see some Pennsy diners or >> observations. Are the any out there now, besides the Rivarossi tail >> end car. > > Just an opinion... > > The P85b coaches often ran several to a train... this translates into > a bigger market. > > The B60b baggage cars often ran several to a train, and sometimes > interchanged to other roads... again, this translates into a bigger > market. Make that "frequently interchanged" and think of the DURATION of era of those cars. > The Pennsy diners were unique to the Pennsy, and only ran one per > train... a comparatively limited market. As the ad says, "Not exactly" on either count . IIRC, diners assigned to long distance trainsets such as the Southwind did make the entire trip and are therefore of interest to a limited number of modelers of other railroads. In addition, some trains might have more than one diner, for a variety of reasons. One example is the consist of the Champion departing Richmond November 18, 1944 which had 2 ACL dining cars, the Albany (a Budd LW) and the Charleston (a HW) working the consist. In this case, the train represents the combined Florida Special and the Champion, with the LW diner to serve the coaches and the HW to serve the Pullmans. > I believe at some point someone will probably do a PRR diner, but I > doubt there will be variety. Most likely candidate would be a D78d, > with a secondary nod to a D85c/D85d twin unit. Although Eric asked for RTR diners, there are (or were) car sides for a modernized D78. NKP Car Co. (http://www.nkpcarco.com/) sold: Modernized Diner- Low Arch Roof P78-D,F $20.00 Modernized Diner- Clerestory Roof P78-D,DD $20.00. See http://www.nkpcarco.com/prr_diner_c_roof_display.htm for a photo of the sides. Both these appear to be discontinued (I believe that this was mentioned on this list about 6 months ago, to BUY NOW!). A call or email to NKP might find one available... One diner not mentioned is the Botchman, which is a D78C or D78R... Of course there were only three D78Cs, they were all assigned to the Broadway Limited, and the car is only good until they were ACed some time in the 1930s. If you use the Botchman as a D78R, you'll need to add PRR style Ice bunkers, which may be the single biggest missing "link" for the PRR passenger car modeler (ECW makes a part that is supposedly a PRR ice bunker, but it isn't very close). I'm sure we'll talk about this more on the next PRRPro Project, which is the P70 series. Surely you've noticed that Walthers has started to fill out trainsets, and that Broadway Limited is offering complete trains as well? "Patience Grasshopper"! (no, I do not have any information that Walthers or BLI will be doing a PRR diner, but it seems logical) Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 12:54:53 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Friday, September 3, 2004, at 12:42 PM, Bruce Smith wrote: >> The Pennsy diners were unique to the Pennsy, and only ran one per >> train... a comparatively limited market. > > As the ad says, "Not exactly" on either count . IIRC, diners > assigned to long distance trainsets such as the Southwind did make the > entire trip and are therefore of interest to a limited number of > modelers of other railroads. In addition, some trains might have more > than one diner, for a variety of reasons. One example is the consist > of the Champion departing Richmond November 18, 1944 which had 2 ACL > dining cars, the Albany (a Budd LW) and the Charleston (a HW) working > the consist. In this case, the train represents the combined Florida > Special and the Champion, with the LW diner to serve the coaches and > the HW to serve the Pullmans. Excellent case, Bruce, I had overlooked the "interchange" of the Florida trains! > >> I believe at some point someone will probably do a PRR diner, but I >> doubt there will be variety. Most likely candidate would be a D78d, >> with a secondary nod to a D85c/D85d twin unit. > > Although Eric asked for RTR diners, there are (or were) car sides There are a variety of diner sides available from Laser Horizons as well... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/ms_laser.html > > One diner not mentioned is the Botchman, which is a D78C or D78R... Of > course there were only three D78Cs, they were all assigned to the > Broadway Limited, and the car is only good until they were ACed some > time in the 1930s. D78C #'s 4416, 4417, 4418 5/26/32 Frigidaire ice a/c system installed. Between April and June of 1938, these cars were painted in the Leowy two-tone "Fleet of Modernism" scheme and assigned to trains 48 and 49, the Broadway Limited. Above info available from searchable passenger roster on Keystone Crossings at... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/varnish/ ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 20:06:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] BLI K4s tender question Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 20:06:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] BLI K4s tender question From: "Mike Morrow" Subject: [PRR] Morning Sun Book Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 14:30:12 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out004.verizon.net from [141.152.231.157] at Sat, 4 Sep 2004 13:33:55 -0500 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Has anyone on the list reviewed "Trackside Around Sayre-Towanda-Waverly" by Morning Sun Books? Supposedly there is a section on the Elmira Branch in it. Mike Morrow PRRT&HS #6703 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mike Morrow" Subject: [PRR] Morning Sun Book Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 14:30:12 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out004.verizon.net from [141.152.231.157] at Sat, 4 Sep 2004 13:33:55 -0500 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Has anyone on the list reviewed "Trackside Around Sayre-Towanda-Waverly" by Morning Sun Books? Supposedly there is a section on the Elmira Branch in it. Mike Morrow PRRT&HS #6703 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 11:31:37 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: ealauterbach@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Well, since it doesn't look like there is a plastic Pennsy streamline diner on the near horizon, I was looking at some of the brass cars on Ebay. I was looking on eBay and come upon this brass diner: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=484&item=5916401242&rd=1 Is it accurate for the Pennsy? How good of a model is it? And if it is accurate, what era is it accurate for? Thanks, Eric ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Godby" Subject: [PRR] E8 Photos from 8/2/04 Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 11:45:01 -0400 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com If this works, there should be a link that will take you to a few photos = I took of the E8`s as they passed through Crestline and Mansfield, if = anyone cares to look at them. http://www.rrpictures.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3D42152 Bill Godby PRRT&HS 7162 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Godby" Subject: [PRR] E8 Photos from 8/2/04 Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 11:45:01 -0400 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com If this works, there should be a link that will take you to a few photos = I took of the E8`s as they passed through Crestline and Mansfield, if = anyone cares to look at them. http://www.rrpictures.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3D42152 Bill Godby PRRT&HS 7162 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Godby" Subject: [PRR] Re: [PennsyWest] E8 Photos from 8/2/04 Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 11:51:27 -0400 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I see I got the link wrong, it is; http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3D42152 Sorry about that. Bill Godby PRRT&HS 7162 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Bill Godby" To: "PRR-talk" ; "PRR Fax" ; = "PennsyWest" Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 11:45 AM Subject: [PennsyWest] E8 Photos from 8/2/04 > If this works, there should be a link that will take you to a few = photos I took of the E8`s as they passed through Crestline and = Mansfield, if anyone cares to look at them. >=20 > http://www.rrpictures.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3D42152 >=20 > Bill Godby PRRT&HS 7162 >=20 >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >=20 >=20 >=20 > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor = --------------------~-->=20 > Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/8ZCslB/TM > = --------------------------------------------------------------------~->=20 >=20 > =20 > Yahoo! Groups Links >=20 > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PennsyWest/ >=20 > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > PennsyWest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >=20 > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > =20 >=20 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 17:31:43 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Sorry, Eric,Pennsy had nothing even close. I believe it is either a GN or NP prototype, forget which. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: > Well, since it doesn't look like there is a plastic Pennsy streamline diner on the near horizon, I was looking at some of the brass cars on Ebay. I was looking on eBay and come upon this brass diner: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=484&item=5916401242&rd=1 > > Is it accurate for the Pennsy? How good of a model is it? And if it is accurate, what era is it accurate for? > Thanks, > Eric ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] PRR and Logging Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 14:40:22 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Listers, Can anyone tell me places and names of railroads that=20 interchanged as a logging railroad with the PRR? Even in=20 the capacity that the railroad had a sawmill on site that=20 then shipped out cut lumber on the PRR. TIA -John Designer, Modeler, Consultant Mount Vernon Shops York, PA Specializing in HO & N scale for the Pennsy modeler. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR and Logging Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 16:07:11 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I can give you one obscure one that often gets missed: The PRR interchanged with the B&S and Potato Creek, a standard gage logging railroad at Keating Summit. I believe the PC went under around 1912 or 1926. Thomas T. Taber's logging book on that area and the book on the B&S tell all with pictures. The B&S book has a sketch of the track arrangement, the logging book has pictures of the mill and the PC yard (elsewhere) with Shays, etc. The PC was standard gage & ran Shays. Actually the B&S interchanged with the PRR at the summit (KS tower once) at a wye, can still see the right of way for the wye. The PC interchanged with the B&S just beyond the wye in a small 3 or so track yard. The PC had a sawmill a short distance north of Keating Summit. A few miles north of the summit are two huge concrete monoliths on the west side of the highway, on either side of the Pennsy (now NS). They would stand up to a nuclear blast and deflect Abrams tanks! They were the supports for the PC bridge (beautiful, long timber trestle that came across the valley just east of the PRR. Pennsy was taking no chances of a Shay falling on the Buffalo Day Express! Pennsy had sidings and an interchange track with the B&S at the summit, so presumably picked up cars from both B&S & Potato Creek. Hope that helps Bill Bigler - 4915 Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Frantz" To: Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 2:40 PM Subject: [PRR] PRR and Logging Listers, Can anyone tell me places and names of railroads that interchanged as a logging railroad with the PRR? Even in the capacity that the railroad had a sawmill on site that then shipped out cut lumber on the PRR. TIA -John Designer, Modeler, Consultant Mount Vernon Shops York, PA Specializing in HO & N scale for the Pennsy modeler. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Breon" Subject: [PRR] BLI PRR J1 discovery Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 16:26:23 -0400 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I've recently diagnosed and repaired a problem I was having with the = operation of one of my HO scale Broadway Limited Imports PRR J1 models = and thought that perhaps some of you may benefit from my experience. I = was very impressed with how smoothly my model ran right out of the box = and after a reasonable break in period I decided to install the optional = traction tire-equipped driver to increase the model's pulling power. The = installation went smoothly (or so I thought) and I was pleased with the = additional traction available. However, soon after beginning operation = on a 65-car hopper train, I noticed the locomotive had developed a = slight hop with each revolution. It was quite noticeable and also seemed = to introduce a slight bind in the mechanism which would cause the model = to hesitate and stall at the lower speed steps. I had read on one of the = lists about the front pair of drivers contacting the cylinders and had = already noted the same problem on mine and clearanced this area prior to = installing the traction tire. Careful examination of the traction tire = drivers eliminated an out-of-round condition so I decided to switch back = to the original smooth driver to see if the hitch disappeared. Much to = my dismay, the locomotive continued to demonstrate the same hop and = bind. I decided to pull the driver retainer plate off another time and = carefully inspect the drive gear on the center axle. Perhaps a piece of = debris was lodged in one of the teeth. This inspection also showed = nothing. If you're still with me, this is where I found the problem. Each driver axle has a pair of brass or bronze journals similar to = those found in brass imports. They all register in a slot provided in = the locomotive's frame. Unlike brass imports, the journal is not an "H" = section, but rather more of a "T" section and relies on a bushing on the = axle to keep it pushed outboard and properly located in the frame slot. = I noticed that the journal on the engineer's side of the center, = gear-equipped axle was not properly registered. The journal had slid = towards the center gear which allowed the driver axle to cock slightly, = thus creating the hitch and bind with each revolution. All journals = except for this one have a bushing that keeps them slid outboard on = their respective axles and properly registered. I did not see any = provision for retaining the misaligned journal. I was just about to pull = the driver from its axle to install a bushing when I noticed a small = plastic ridge on the underside of the retainer plate. Sure enough, this = ridge was there to retain its corresponding journal in the frame slots. = This time I carefully re-assembled the model taking care to keep the = journal properly registered until the retainer plate was fully secured. = This did it! The model now runs flawlessly without any trace of a hitch = or bind. Hopefully, one of you will benefit from this story. Jerry Breon Birdsboro, PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Breon" Subject: [PRR] BLI PRR J1 discovery Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 16:26:23 -0400 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I've recently diagnosed and repaired a problem I was having with the = operation of one of my HO scale Broadway Limited Imports PRR J1 models = and thought that perhaps some of you may benefit from my experience. I = was very impressed with how smoothly my model ran right out of the box = and after a reasonable break in period I decided to install the optional = traction tire-equipped driver to increase the model's pulling power. The = installation went smoothly (or so I thought) and I was pleased with the = additional traction available. However, soon after beginning operation = on a 65-car hopper train, I noticed the locomotive had developed a = slight hop with each revolution. It was quite noticeable and also seemed = to introduce a slight bind in the mechanism which would cause the model = to hesitate and stall at the lower speed steps. I had read on one of the = lists about the front pair of drivers contacting the cylinders and had = already noted the same problem on mine and clearanced this area prior to = installing the traction tire. Careful examination of the traction tire = drivers eliminated an out-of-round condition so I decided to switch back = to the original smooth driver to see if the hitch disappeared. Much to = my dismay, the locomotive continued to demonstrate the same hop and = bind. I decided to pull the driver retainer plate off another time and = carefully inspect the drive gear on the center axle. Perhaps a piece of = debris was lodged in one of the teeth. This inspection also showed = nothing. If you're still with me, this is where I found the problem. Each driver axle has a pair of brass or bronze journals similar to = those found in brass imports. They all register in a slot provided in = the locomotive's frame. Unlike brass imports, the journal is not an "H" = section, but rather more of a "T" section and relies on a bushing on the = axle to keep it pushed outboard and properly located in the frame slot. = I noticed that the journal on the engineer's side of the center, = gear-equipped axle was not properly registered. The journal had slid = towards the center gear which allowed the driver axle to cock slightly, = thus creating the hitch and bind with each revolution. All journals = except for this one have a bushing that keeps them slid outboard on = their respective axles and properly registered. I did not see any = provision for retaining the misaligned journal. I was just about to pull = the driver from its axle to install a bushing when I noticed a small = plastic ridge on the underside of the retainer plate. Sure enough, this = ridge was there to retain its corresponding journal in the frame slots. = This time I carefully re-assembled the model taking care to keep the = journal properly registered until the retainer plate was fully secured. = This did it! The model now runs flawlessly without any trace of a hitch = or bind. Hopefully, one of you will benefit from this story. Jerry Breon Birdsboro, PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roy Breon" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR and Logging Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 18:37:09 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I'm not sure of the details of the railroad, but Set Up Running states that the Susquehanna & New York joined up with the PRR at Ralston PA. S&NY may have carried logs or lumber. Perhaps someone else on the list can clarify this. Roy Breon Pittsford NY ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Frantz" To: Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 2:40 PM Subject: [PRR] PRR and Logging Listers, Can anyone tell me places and names of railroads that interchanged as a logging railroad with the PRR? Even in the capacity that the railroad had a sawmill on site that then shipped out cut lumber on the PRR. TIA -John Designer, Modeler, Consultant Mount Vernon Shops York, PA Specializing in HO & N scale for the Pennsy modeler. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 19:40:37 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR and Logging > From: "John Frantz" > Subject: [PRR] PRR and Logging From: "Fred Rea" Subject: [PRR] A powered B-unit Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 00:33:39 -0400 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Does any one know where I can get a powered E B unit in PRR colors? I = have two dummy A units carrying a video camera and transmitter in one = and rechargeable batteries in the other. These are Rivarossi units = with the motors removed and NWSL wheels. The system works great and = visitors love to operate by sitting in front of a TV and "riding" in the = cab. The problem is I have no appropriate powered unit to push them and = pull the train. It needs to be a good puller as the train should look = like it needs three units. LLP2K would be great but others might work. If I can't find a PRR unit I'd consider something else and painting it. Fred Rea Columbus, OH ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Rea" Subject: [PRR] A powered B-unit Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 00:33:39 -0400 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Does any one know where I can get a powered E B unit in PRR colors? I = have two dummy A units carrying a video camera and transmitter in one = and rechargeable batteries in the other. These are Rivarossi units = with the motors removed and NWSL wheels. The system works great and = visitors love to operate by sitting in front of a TV and "riding" in the = cab. The problem is I have no appropriate powered unit to push them and = pull the train. It needs to be a good puller as the train should look = like it needs three units. LLP2K would be great but others might work. If I can't find a PRR unit I'd consider something else and painting it. Fred Rea Columbus, OH ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 09:48:33 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-reply-to: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcSR0euXF14vCkA3R0m4ws6UzMrNGgDDxQWQ Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hallelujah! I don't know of any mid train lounges available in HO! Six bedroom lounges were very common on many roads. Of course the PRR had two varieties on FALLS cars, prewar and postwar. Walthers could easily do a FALLS car and paint for 69 roads ;-) regards, Andy Miller The MITRE Corp -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Britton Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 12:11 PM To: Bill Daniels Cc: ealauterbach@earthlink.net; PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car On Friday, September 3, 2004, at 12:04 PM, Bill Daniels wrote: > From a highly reliable source I have heard that there is an excellent > chance we will be seeing some additional PRR cars of this type in the > near future...but more than that I cannot comment on at this time. There is a mid-train lounge in the works. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 09:52:29 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-reply-to: <4A529B3A-FDC7-11D8-8E08-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcSR1G66MJrld3HVQOqnz3NT8XoBVgDDQehQ Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Without any foreknowledge, I am pining my hopes on Walthers following the Super Chief with a Congo! They already do the parlor. They could use a corridor high density coach in their mix. All their current coaches are 50 seat (+/-). No one has ever done a plastic 2-unit diner or a respectable square end fluted obs. And there are a "few" SPFs out in the market place. The Congo has real possibilities for them. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Britton Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 12:36 PM To: Bill Daniels Cc: ealauterbach@earthlink.net; PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car On Friday, September 3, 2004, at 12:23 PM, Bill Daniels wrote: > From what I've heard there is much more than that coming. I was addressing only single cars from current sources, those being Walthers, Branchline, and InterMountain. I imaging BLI will probably do a complete PRR train, though I am led to believe it will not be a PRR train that follows their current "Zephyr" offering. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 10:14:00 -0400 Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Northern Central Chapter Program on 9/12 From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <2A2F0AB8-00D8-11D9-983A-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com This Sunday is the regularly scheduled quarterly meeting of the Northern Central Chapter of the PRRT&HS. The meeting is at 1:30 p.m. and anyone can attend. Otterbein United Methodist Church, 301 W. Philadelphia St., York, Pa. This meeting has a special program and is a joint event with the Susquehanna Division of the National Model Railroad Association (NMRA). The speaker will be John Moyer, the fireman who rode the GG1 into the basement of Washington Union Station when "The Federal" lost its brakes and crashed in 1953. John regularly worked on what is now known as the Northeast Corridor as well as on the Northern Central Branch between Baltimore and Harrisburg. John will speak of the crash and other experiences, as well as answer questions. One account of the wreck is at http://www.steamlocomotive.com/GG1/prr4876-crash.html . ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] A powered B-unit Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 14:17:58 +0000 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Bob Zoeller wrote: "Seems to me that Athearn powered some of their [ALCo PBs]. Body may not be up to P2K standards, but I know the Athearn Alco units I sold on eBay were very smooth runners---just can't remember if the B unit was powered." Athearn does indeed offer powered PBs. The frame and mechanism is the same for both the A and B units. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: [PRR] passenger consists Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 11:45:48 -0400 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com .....and speaking of passenger trains. walthers could easily do a ' = 48 broadway in conjunction with rivarossi. all it would take is an = upgrade of the=20 appropriate cars they have now; a la their U.P. eight car set. that = and three new cars, a mid train lounge, and the two pieces of a twin = unit diner. then sell it piecemeal, or as a set as they've done with the super = chief. tell me that wouldn't sell !!! we've already got = appropriate power from BLI. then again, a full congo consist in plastic would be mighty fine = too.........for those of us who didn't get the challenger offering. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 16:40:57 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR and Logging From: John Sheets Subject: [PRR] EX-Pennsy Engine Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 17:15:35 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: EX-Pennsy Engine Thread-Index: AcSVKDRLqhIaQDPHT325BQoaxCwLnQ== From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Sep 2004 22:15:35.0897 (UTC) FILETIME=[32EEFC90:01C49528] Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Posted on the Fallen Flags website is a picture of an ex-Pennsy = consolidation engine. But what is the railroad? http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-i/ibl-s25asw.jpg Note the quasi-diamond shaped logo on the tender. Marvin L. Cadwell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 21:08:56 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "sjlash" Subject: Re: [PRR] EX-Pennsy Engine X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Marvin, With the C&O hopper behind the tender, I would guess the Lehigh= , Reading, or maybe the Erie. These are strictly a guess. The locomotive = has definitely been rebuilt and upgraded from the original. Note the cylinde= rs, drivers, and the style of the cab. Jim=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: Cadwell, Marvin L=0D Date: 09/07/04 18:25:06=0D To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=0D Subject: [PRR] EX-Pennsy Engine=0D =0D Posted on the Fallen Flags website is a picture of an ex-Pennsy consolidation engine. But what is the railroad?=0D =0D http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-i/ibl-s25asw.jpg=0D =0D Note the quasi-diamond shaped logo on the tender.=0D =0D Marvin L. Cadwell=0D -----------------------------------------------------------------------=0D For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.=0D =0D =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Christopher Baker" Subject: RE: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 21:22:41 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <200409071350.i87DoZD15590@smtp-bedford.mitre.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I would think that Walthers has the Broadway Limited of 1938 in mind rather than the Budd-built Congressional. A larger portion of their existing model inventory would be appropriate for a Broadway in the FOM paint scheme. And the majority of the cars needed for a '38 Broadway would translate well into other road names (like the 1938-version of the 20th Century perhaps). Besides that, it would be a natural eastern counterpart to the Santa Fe Super Chief, even though the two resulting Walthers-assembled trains would be of different eras. Chris Baker -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Andy Miller Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 8:52 AM To: 'Jerry Britton'; 'Bill Daniels' Cc: ealauterbach@earthlink.net; 'PRR-Talk' Subject: RE: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car Without any foreknowledge, I am pining my hopes on Walthers following the Super Chief with a Congo! They already do the parlor. They could use a corridor high density coach in their mix. All their current coaches are 50 seat (+/-). No one has ever done a plastic 2-unit diner or a respectable square end fluted obs. And there are a "few" SPFs out in the market place. The Congo has real possibilities for them. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Britton Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 12:36 PM To: Bill Daniels Cc: ealauterbach@earthlink.net; PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car On Friday, September 3, 2004, at 12:23 PM, Bill Daniels wrote: > From what I've heard there is much more than that coming. I was addressing only single cars from current sources, those being Walthers, Branchline, and InterMountain. I imaging BLI will probably do a complete PRR train, though I am led to believe it will not be a PRR train that follows their current "Zephyr" offering. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 21:30:42 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] EX-Pennsy Engine MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Guys, =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0The loco appears to be x-PRR H9s, probably x PRR1298. The photo depicts operation on the Norfolk & Portsmouth Belt Line that operated in Virginia. Looks like a standard H9s with no modifications, except for the front end ugly treatment. ......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Hough " Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 20:40:16 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] EX-Pennsy Engine From: "Benjamin Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] EX-Pennsy Engine Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 22:04:27 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <413E5BA8.000001.03344@NIKKI> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Jim Lash wrote: "...with the C&O hopper behind the tender, I would guess the Lehigh, Reading, or maybe the Erie. These are strictly a guess." I have to strongly caution against using any freight car capable of interchange as a basis in determining what road a picture was taken. Bruce Chubb's theories of freight car distribution appear logical, but they do not hold up when compared with actual car distribution data. While not as freely interchanged as boxcars during the steam-to-diesel transition, hopper cars did wander within a regional basis. They weren't as captive as many modelers believe. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] EX-Pennsy Engine Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 23:25:48 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Ken, That's a US Army World War II 0-6-0. The Raritan River and the Virginia Blue Ridge used them, but that's neither's logo AFAIK. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Hough " To: Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] EX-Pennsy Engine > Heres the next photo of that series: > http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-i/ibl-s50asw.jpg > Different engine, same logo? > Ken > > > > Guys, > The loco appears to be x-PRR H9s, probably > x PRR1298. The photo depicts operation on the Norfolk & Portsmouth > Belt Line that operated in Virginia. Looks like a standard H9s with > no > modifications, except for the front end ugly treatment. ......Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work! > > PRR K4s Loco Pics: > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ > > PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > > and...... > > PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > Ken Hough Photographic Repair > Specializing in Deardorff repair and refinishing > Shutter repair and Lens recementing > Custom machine work > www.deardorffcameras.0catch.com > 219-462-0281 > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 08:14:47 -0400 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] EX-Pennsy Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com This is one of the ex-Delmarva (IIRC) PRR consolidations that went to the Norfolk and Portsmouth Beltline. The odd looking coal bunker and stack flap are typical of N&PBL engines and they had a diamond shaped logo. (It's better seen on the second photo posted by Gary M.) The sand tower suggests Portlock yard. The N&PBL was founded by AJ Cassatt as the next project after the NYP&N as a jointly owned line by all the tidewater railroads including the NYP&N, C&O, N&W, Southern, Virginia, SAL, ACL and old Norfolk Southern. Its now a NEW NS operation and is still in operation though the players have changed. I can find more details later today if anyone wants them...references at home. Jim McDaniel, happy to see something near Delmarva ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:49:17 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-reply-to: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcSVQlY2hu2gkbOPSBG14QfjtxI9swAZ3y0w Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Unfortunately, I think you are right. The 10-5 and the 4-4-2 (unlike the Super Chief, this time it's the right one!) are already available. From the Rivarossi line they get the RPO and even the 12-5. The B'way never ran them, but painted the FOM (with colors to match the Walthers cars) it fits in many other trains. This means they still need a D78 rebuild, a HARBOR lounge, a VIEW obs, and even an 11 br COUNTY car. The latter is also fair game for several roads. I say "unfortunately" because I model the early 50s, and most (but not all) of these cars are gone or repainted by then. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Baker [mailto:chrisandbelton@comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 9:23 PM To: Andy Miller; 'Jerry Britton'; 'Bill Daniels' Cc: ealauterbach@earthlink.net; 'PRR-Talk' Subject: RE: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car I would think that Walthers has the Broadway Limited of 1938 in mind rather than the Budd-built Congressional. A larger portion of their existing model inventory would be appropriate for a Broadway in the FOM paint scheme. And the majority of the cars needed for a '38 Broadway would translate well into other road names (like the 1938-version of the 20th Century perhaps). Besides that, it would be a natural eastern counterpart to the Santa Fe Super Chief, even though the two resulting Walthers-assembled trains would be of different eras. Chris Baker -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Andy Miller Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 8:52 AM To: 'Jerry Britton'; 'Bill Daniels' Cc: ealauterbach@earthlink.net; 'PRR-Talk' Subject: RE: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car Without any foreknowledge, I am pining my hopes on Walthers following the Super Chief with a Congo! They already do the parlor. They could use a corridor high density coach in their mix. All their current coaches are 50 seat (+/-). No one has ever done a plastic 2-unit diner or a respectable square end fluted obs. And there are a "few" SPFs out in the market place. The Congo has real possibilities for them. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Britton Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 12:36 PM To: Bill Daniels Cc: ealauterbach@earthlink.net; PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car On Friday, September 3, 2004, at 12:23 PM, Bill Daniels wrote: > From what I've heard there is much more than that coming. I was addressing only single cars from current sources, those being Walthers, Branchline, and InterMountain. I imaging BLI will probably do a complete PRR train, though I am led to believe it will not be a PRR train that follows their current "Zephyr" offering. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 10:07:21 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: Ex-Pennsy Engine From: John Sheets Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 10:07:21 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: Ex-Pennsy Engine From: John Sheets Cc: prrths_modeling_committee@yahoogroups.com From: Bruce Smith Subject: [PRR] Broadway Limited K4s Tender Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:28:12 -0500 To: "PRR-Talk TALK''" , PRR@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Good morning folks, A question was raised on PRR-Talk a few days ago regarding the tender to be sold with the Broadway Limited K4s. Based on information I received from Charlie Vlk of BLI, this tender will be a class 110P75A (Type 2) and thus it is also a close match for the 110P75 (Type 2) which was used behind the M1. I gleaned the data below from The Keystone, Vol 21, Number 1 (spring 1988). This issue actually has two fantastic tender articles, one on 13,000 gallon tenders, and the second, on Kiesel Tenders, both by Roger L. Keyser. The class 110P75 (Type 1) had seven side braces (and hence rows of rivets) and a long coal space. About 200 of these were ordered for use with the M1 in 1926. However, in May 1926 the specs were revised to include eight tank side braces (110P75 (Type 2)). It is not clear how many of the Type 1 tenders were built, but Keyser speculates that they "exceeded 20 units" meaning that most were probably Type 2 tenders. Except for the number of side braces, the tenders were identical. The class 110P75A (Type 2) was a modification of class 110P75 (Types 1 and 2). Keyser notes little change between the two except that the 110P75 tenders with 7 side braces were modified to have 8. The 110P75A was first mentioned in 1927, but there appear to have been none so modified until 1936. Because of the date, it is not clear if any 110P75 tenders were used behind K4s before they were reclassified as 110P75A. We have long sought evidence of 110P75 tenders on the M1 into the 1940s, however the existence of this pairing has not been (well) documented, thus it seems likely that most 110P75 tenders were converted to 110P75A tenders and paired with K4s prior to WWII as the long tenders were built for the M1s. The class 110P75A (Type 1) was converted from the short coal space 110P70 tenders already assigned to K4s. These tenders have 8 side braces, a long coal space and a crease in the side of the coal space where the slope sheet used to be, which differentiates them from the 110P75 (Type 2). BTW, the designations "Type 1" and "Type 2" are akin to railfan "phases" and are not official PRR nomenclature. They do not appear anywhere in the Form 109 Classification and Description of Locomotives and Tenders. Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 17:02:10 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: [PRR] Pulpwood Cars at Erie was Re: PRR and Logging Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 14:38:11 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Pulpwood Cars at Erie was Re: PRR and Logging From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 19:10:17 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pulpwood Cars at Erie was Re: PRR and Logging X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 9/8/2004 5:20:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, drm6@psu.edu writes: John and the group, Pulpwood cars at Erie is easy - Hammermill Paper. Pulpwood cars would also be sent to Lock Haven and Ridgeway for the New York and Pennsylvania (Nypen) Pulp and Paper plants there during the PRR era. I would also like to know where the pulpwood would be coming from West Virginia Pulp and Paper had a sizeable plant in Tyrone and was served by the PRR Bald Eagle Branch. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 20:00:16 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pulpwood Cars at Erie was Re: PRR and Logging X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Rich, I think WVP&P made their pulp themselves. I recall Tyrone smelling really foul when passing through there in the 1960's & 70's.Under early Conrail(1979,80,81) there were loads of logs at the east end of the Tyrone Park yd, at the "PARK" end but I think they also made plywood and or particle board at Tyrone. Drew,do you have any idea when they stopped making pulp at Tyrone and the smell started to go away? Can't recall some of these things anymore. Same thing with the plant at Roaring Spring. Pat McKinney ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pulpwood Cars at Erie was Re: PRR and Logging Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 21:39:06 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Here's a photo of PRR gons loaded with pulpwood at Hammermill: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/images/hammer.jpg I always seem to be wrong when I trust my memory, but I think I was told that pulpwood came from Canada by ship to Hammermill's dock in the PRR's lake yards, and was taken by PRR to the mill. The Hammermill dock is shown in this 1936 track chart: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/images/ely_w2.gif I'm sure that in earlier times pulpwood came up the P&E as well. I can check Rosenberg's P&E history for details --- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, Chautauqua branches web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew McGhee" To: "PRR Talk" Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 5:02 PM Subject: [PRR] Pulpwood Cars at Erie was Re: PRR and Logging > John and the group, > > Pulpwood cars at Erie is easy - Hammermill Paper. Pulpwood cars would also > be sent to Lock Haven and Ridgeway for the New York and Pennsylvania > (Nypen) Pulp and Paper plants there during the PRR era. > > I would also like to know where the pulpwood would be coming from. > > Drew R. McGhee > Altoona, PA > drm6@psu.edu > http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ > > At 05:40 PM 9/7/2004, John Sheets wrote: > >John > > > >On one of Clarence Weavers videos c1957, there were a lot of pulpwood loaded > >PRR gons in the yard at Erie, Pa, but not sure where they came from/went to. > > > >John > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "George Rudy" Subject: [PRR] Coal Hoppers Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 22:31:24 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-ctinetworks-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ctinetworks-VirusCheck: Found to be clean X-ctinetworks-SpamCheck: Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Question, In Coal Hoppers, What road names could one expect to find on the PRR middle division in 1942? Thanks, George New Bloomfield, Pa. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "steve pracey" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 09/08/04 Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:01:13 +1000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi all, I am modelling pennsy n scale. I am looking at what liveries were on rsd type Alco`s. I would also like to know if Alco had rsd type locomotives as demonstrators and if so what liveries. Kind regards, Stephen Campbelltown,Sydney,Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "PRR-Talk" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 3:10 PM Subject: PRR-Talk Digest - 09/08/04 PRR-Talk Digest - Wednesday, September 8, 2004 Re: [PRR] A powered B-unit by "Bob Zoeller" RE: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car by "Andy Miller" RE: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car by "Andy Miller" PRRT&HS Northern Central Chapter Program on 9/12 by "Jerry Britton" Re: [PRR] A powered B-unit by passenger consists by Re: PRR and Logging by "John Sheets" EX-Pennsy Engine by "Cadwell, Marvin L" Re: [PRR] EX-Pennsy Engine by "sjlash" RE: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car by "Christopher Baker" Re: [PRR] EX-Pennsy Engine by "Gary Mittner" Re: [PRR] EX-Pennsy Engine by "Ken Hough" RE: [PRR] EX-Pennsy Engine by "Benjamin Hom" Re: [PRR] EX-Pennsy Engine by "Gregg Mahlkov" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] A powered B-unit From: "Bob Zoeller" Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 08:14:03 -0500 You didn't say what era , but you could also run A-A-A or use a powered Alco PB as the prototype did. Seems to me that Athearn powered some of their Bs. Body may not be up to P2K standards, but I know the Athearn Alco units I sold on eBay were very smooth runners---just can't remember if the B unit was powered :-). Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Rea" To: "PRR-Talk" ; Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 11:33 PM Subject: [PRR] A powered B-unit Does any one know where I can get a powered E B unit in PRR colors? I have two dummy A units carrying a video camera and transmitter in one and rechargeable batteries in the other. These are Rivarossi units with the motors removed and NWSL wheels. The system works great and visitors love to operate by sitting in front of a TV and "riding" in the cab. The problem is I have no appropriate powered unit to push them and pull the train. It needs to be a good puller as the train should look like it needs three units. LLP2K would be great but others might work. If I can't find a PRR unit I'd consider something else and painting it. Fred Rea Columbus, OH ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car From: "Andy Miller" Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 09:48:33 -0400 Hallelujah! I don't know of any mid train lounges available in HO! Six bedroom lounges were very common on many roads. Of course the PRR had two varieties on FALLS cars, prewar and postwar. Walthers could easily do a FALLS car and paint for 69 roads ;-) regards, Andy Miller The MITRE Corp -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Britton Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 12:11 PM To: Bill Daniels Cc: ealauterbach@earthlink.net; PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car On Friday, September 3, 2004, at 12:04 PM, Bill Daniels wrote: > From a highly reliable source I have heard that there is an excellent > chance we will be seeing some additional PRR cars of this type in the > near future...but more than that I cannot comment on at this time. There is a mid-train lounge in the works. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car From: "Andy Miller" Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 09:52:29 -0400 Without any foreknowledge, I am pining my hopes on Walthers following the Super Chief with a Congo! They already do the parlor. They could use a corridor high density coach in their mix. All their current coaches are 50 seat (+/-). No one has ever done a plastic 2-unit diner or a respectable square end fluted obs. And there are a "few" SPFs out in the market place. The Congo has real possibilities for them. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Britton Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 12:36 PM To: Bill Daniels Cc: ealauterbach@earthlink.net; PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car On Friday, September 3, 2004, at 12:23 PM, Bill Daniels wrote: > From what I've heard there is much more than that coming. I was addressing only single cars from current sources, those being Walthers, Branchline, and InterMountain. I imaging BLI will probably do a complete PRR train, though I am led to believe it will not be a PRR train that follows their current "Zephyr" offering. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: PRRT&HS Northern Central Chapter Program on 9/12 From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 10:14:00 -0400 This Sunday is the regularly scheduled quarterly meeting of the Northern Central Chapter of the PRRT&HS. The meeting is at 1:30 p.m. and anyone can attend. Otterbein United Methodist Church, 301 W. Philadelphia St., York, Pa. This meeting has a special program and is a joint event with the Susquehanna Division of the National Model Railroad Association (NMRA). The speaker will be John Moyer, the fireman who rode the GG1 into the basement of Washington Union Station when "The Federal" lost its brakes and crashed in 1953. John regularly worked on what is now known as the Northeast Corridor as well as on the Northern Central Branch between Baltimore and Harrisburg. John will speak of the crash and other experiences, as well as answer questions. One account of the wreck is at http://www.steamlocomotive.com/GG1/prr4876-crash.html . ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] A powered B-unit From: Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 14:17:58 +0000 Bob Zoeller wrote: "Seems to me that Athearn powered some of their [ALCo PBs]. Body may not be up to P2K standards, but I know the Athearn Alco units I sold on eBay were very smooth runners---just can't remember if the B unit was powered." Athearn does indeed offer powered PBs. The frame and mechanism is the same for both the A and B units. Ben Hom ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: passenger consists From: Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 11:45:48 -0400 .....and speaking of passenger trains. walthers could easily do a ' 48 broadway in conjunction with rivarossi. all it would take is an upgrade of the appropriate cars they have now; a la their U.P. eight car set. that and three new cars, a mid train lounge, and the two pieces of a twin unit diner. then sell it piecemeal, or as a set as they've done with the super chief. tell me that wouldn't sell !!! we've already got appropriate power from BLI. then again, a full congo consist in plastic would be mighty fine too.........for those of us who didn't get the challenger offering. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: PRR and Logging From: "John Sheets" Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 16:40:57 -0500 John > Can anyone tell me places and names of railroads that > interchanged as a logging railroad with the PRR? Even in > the capacity that the railroad had a sawmill on site that > then shipped out cut lumber on the PRR. On one of Clarence Weavers videos c1957, there were a lot of pulpwood loaded PRR gons in the yard at Erie, Pa, but not sure where they came from/went to. John ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: EX-Pennsy Engine From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 17:15:35 -0500 Posted on the Fallen Flags website is a picture of an ex-Pennsy consolidation engine. But what is the railroad? http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-i/ibl-s25asw.jpg Note the quasi-diamond shaped logo on the tender. Marvin L. Cadwell ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] EX-Pennsy Engine From: "sjlash" Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 21:08:56 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) Marvin, With the C&O hopper behind the tender, I would guess the Lehigh, Reading, or maybe the Erie. These are strictly a guess. The locomotive has definitely been rebuilt and upgraded from the original. Note the cylinders, drivers, and the style of the cab. Jim -------Original Message------- From: Cadwell, Marvin L Date: 09/07/04 18:25:06 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] EX-Pennsy Engine Posted on the Fallen Flags website is a picture of an ex-Pennsy consolidation engine. But what is the railroad? http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-i/ibl-s25asw.jpg Note the quasi-diamond shaped logo on the tender. Marvin L. Cadwell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car From: "Christopher Baker" Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 21:22:41 -0400 I would think that Walthers has the Broadway Limited of 1938 in mind rather than the Budd-built Congressional. A larger portion of their existing model inventory would be appropriate for a Broadway in the FOM paint scheme. And the majority of the cars needed for a '38 Broadway would translate well into other road names (like the 1938-version of the 20th Century perhaps). Besides that, it would be a natural eastern counterpart to the Santa Fe Super Chief, even though the two resulting Walthers-assembled trains would be of different eras. Chris Baker -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Andy Miller Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 8:52 AM To: 'Jerry Britton'; 'Bill Daniels' Cc: ealauterbach@earthlink.net; 'PRR-Talk' Subject: RE: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car Without any foreknowledge, I am pining my hopes on Walthers following the Super Chief with a Congo! They already do the parlor. They could use a corridor high density coach in their mix. All their current coaches are 50 seat (+/-). No one has ever done a plastic 2-unit diner or a respectable square end fluted obs. And there are a "few" SPFs out in the market place. The Congo has real possibilities for them. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Britton Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 12:36 PM To: Bill Daniels Cc: ealauterbach@earthlink.net; PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] Plastic RTR Pennsy Diner and tailend car On Friday, September 3, 2004, at 12:23 PM, Bill Daniels wrote: > From what I've heard there is much more than that coming. I was addressing only single cars from current sources, those being Walthers, Branchline, and InterMountain. I imaging BLI will probably do a complete PRR train, though I am led to believe it will not be a PRR train that follows their current "Zephyr" offering. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] EX-Pennsy Engine From: "Gary Mittner" Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 21:30:42 -0400 Guys, The loco appears to be x-PRR H9s, probably x PRR1298. The photo depicts operation on the Norfolk & Portsmouth Belt Line that operated in Virginia. Looks like a standard H9s with no modifications, except for the front end ugly treatment. ......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] EX-Pennsy Engine From: "Ken Hough" Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 20:40:16 -0500 Heres the next photo of that series: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-i/ibl-s50asw.jpg Different engine, same logo? Ken Guys, The loco appears to be x-PRR H9s, probably x PRR1298. The photo depicts operation on the Norfolk & Portsmouth Belt Line that operated in Virginia. Looks like a standard H9s with no modifications, except for the front end ugly treatment. ......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. Ken Hough Photographic Repair Specializing in Deardorff repair and refinishing Shutter repair and Lens recementing Custom machine work www.deardorffcameras.0catch.com 219-462-0281 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: [PRR] EX-Pennsy Engine From: "Benjamin Hom" Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 22:04:27 -0400 Jim Lash wrote: "...with the C&O hopper behind the tender, I would guess the Lehigh, Reading, or maybe the Erie. These are strictly a guess." I have to strongly caution against using any freight car capable of interchange as a basis in determining what road a picture was taken. Bruce Chubb's theories of freight car distribution appear logical, but they do not hold up when compared with actual car distribution data. While not as freely interchanged as boxcars during the steam-to-diesel transition, hopper cars did wander within a regional basis. They weren't as captive as many modelers believe. Ben Hom ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] EX-Pennsy Engine From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 23:25:48 -0400 Ken, That's a US Army World War II 0-6-0. The Raritan River and the Virginia Blue Ridge used them, but that's neither's logo AFAIK. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Hough " To: Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] EX-Pennsy Engine > Heres the next photo of that series: > http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-i/ibl-s50asw.jpg > Different engine, same logo? > Ken > > > > Guys, > The loco appears to be x-PRR H9s, probably > x PRR1298. The photo depicts operation on the Norfolk & Portsmouth > Belt Line that operated in Virginia. Looks like a standard H9s with > no > modifications, except for the front end ugly treatment. ......Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work! > > PRR K4s Loco Pics: > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ > > PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > > and...... > > PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > Ken Hough Photographic Repair > Specializing in Deardorff repair and refinishing > Shutter repair and Lens recementing > Custom machine work > www.deardorffcameras.0catch.com > 219-462-0281 > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of PRR-Talk Digest ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 01:25:31 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pulpwood Cars at Erie was Re: PRR and Logging X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 9/8/2004 8:00:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PKMac101 writes: I think WVP&P made their pulp themselves. I recall Tyrone smelling really foul when passing through there in the 1960's & 70's.Under early Conrail(1979,80,81) there were loads of logs at the east end of the Tyrone Park yd, at the "PARK" end but I think they also made plywood and or particle board at Tyrone. Drew,do you have any idea when they stopped making pulp at Tyrone and the smell started to go away? Can't recall some of these things anymore. Same thing with the plant at Roaring Spring. Pat McKinney Pat, they were still making pulp at least until May 1972. I passed that plant far too many times going between Penn State and Pittsburgh. When my younger brother graduated from PSU in 72 the plant was still spewing out air pollution. IIRC they stopped making the pulp as part of a consent agreement to end the water and air pollution violations at the facility. It was cheaper to move the pulp making to one of the WV plants with modern pollution controls than to retrofit the Tyrone plant. I may have misunderstood the original post. I thought we were talking about pulpwood loads in Erie being delivered to plants. I was id'ing the Tyrone plant as a receipient of pulpwood not paper pulp. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 07:58:04 -0400 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pulpwood Cars at Erie was Re: PRR and Logging Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Pulpwood in gondolas, what a cool idea for a load or two! I'm used to seeing logs on trucks and bulkhead flats. Jim McDaniel, Delmarva tree farmer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Matt Sichel" Subject: [PRR] Amtrak Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 07:58:43 -0400 Subject: RE: [PRR] Pulpwood Cars at Erie was Re: PRR and Logging Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 07:03:39 -0500 From: "Bill Volkmer" X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I watched them off-load the stuff from the lake boats and stack it up = along the waterfront, so a good guess would be that it came from Canada. Bill Volkmer ________________________________ From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com on behalf of Drew McGhee Sent: Wed 9/8/2004 4:02 PM To: PRR Talk Subject: [PRR] Pulpwood Cars at Erie was Re: PRR and Logging John and the group, Pulpwood cars at Erie is easy - Hammermill Paper. Pulpwood cars would = also be sent to Lock Haven and Ridgeway for the New York and Pennsylvania (Nypen) Pulp and Paper plants there during the PRR era. I would also like to know where the pulpwood would be coming from. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA drm6@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ At 05:40 PM 9/7/2004, John Sheets wrote: >John > >On one of Clarence Weavers videos c1957, there were a lot of pulpwood = loaded >PRR gons in the yard at Erie, Pa, but not sure where they came = from/went to. > >John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bennett Levin" Subject: Re: [PRR] Amtrak Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:37:12 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com And that means it will be a late afternoon train....................... It will never be the same! Write your folks in HBG if you want a day train to be returned. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Sichel" To: Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 7:58 AM Subject: [PRR] Amtrak > Just a note to the listers, if you hadn't heard. Amtrak is reducing and > restructuring Pennsylvania service in the coming months as it exits the mail > business. As of March 1, 2005, there will be no through New > York-Pittsburgh-Chicago service, as Amtrak annuls the Three Rivers and > replaces it and the Pennsylvanian with one train daily each direction from > between New York and Pittsburgh which has yet to be named. Amtrak argues > that to get to Chicago via this route, that passengers may transfer to the > Capitol Limited at Pittsburgh. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to > School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:51:35 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Amtrak From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Thursday, September 9, 2004, at 09:37 AM, Bennett Levin wrote: > And that means it will be a late afternoon train....................... > > It will never be the same! > > Write your folks in HBG if you want a day train to be returned. I suggest Amtrak be totally removed from the Philly to Pittsburgh run... Let the Juniata Terminal E8's take over!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 09:59:45 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: Re: [PRR] Pulpwood Cars at Erie was Re: PRR and Logging From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:09:21 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] EX-Pennsy Engine X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com But what about that tender bunker or is there something in the background above the tender? Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:05:16 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] A powered B-unit X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com There is always the option of three A units. It was not uncommon for the PRR to run three E8 A units, or a mix of E7 and E8's, together. I rode PRR trains in the sixties from Lancaster, Pa to Chicago with three A's a toting. A Broadway Limited E8 would make an excellent pulling unit to go with your E "Camera" 8A's plus it could be the trailing unit avoiding having the battery wires run through a powered unit. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:18:15 EDT Subject: [PRR] Ditto on the wandering hopper cars X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I saw and took a slide of a Pennsy two bay hopper sitting empty next to the passenger station in Tacoma, Wa., summer 1973. Have seen Reading two bay hoppers in Los Angeles, Ca., Leadville, Co. and Tucson, Az. These all between 1972 and June 1974. Later sightings of the 100T hoppers from eastern roads out west are even more prevalent. Even have a photo of a Frisco hopper hauling ungraded coal from a mine to the St. Nicholas Breaker deep in the heart of the Penna. anthracite country. Hoppers got around, too. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] A powered B-unit Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:51:25 +0000 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Apparently the PRR also retained some or all of the PB's in passenger service when the PA's were transferred to freight. The original Pennsy Power shows a PB between two E7's this way. -------------- Original message from RDG2124@aol.com: -------------- > There is always the option of three A units. It was not uncommon for the > PRR to run three E8 A units, or a mix of E7 and E8's, together. I rode PRR > trains in the sixties from Lancaster, Pa to Chicago with three A's a toting. A > Broadway Limited E8 would make an excellent pulling unit to go with your E > "Camera" 8A's plus it could be the trailing unit avoiding having the battery > wires > run through a powered unit. > > > Evan Leisey > RCT&HS 346 > PRRT&HS 7487 > PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 > CNJ 2003 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: [PRR] PRR Cabins on M&E Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:46:46 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-reply-to: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcSU9NiY/M7RJe2sT1uI2dlqTRzEyACT3XVA Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com The PCL thread on NYC rider cars has migrated to why the PRR used cabin cars so often instead of coaches on mail & express trains. It occurs to me that one advantage of a cabin car, besides the desk, is the heat available from the stove. It would not be necessary to connect all the steam lines, or even to use a steam equipped loco, on a M&E train when the rider car was a cabin. regards, Andy Miller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: [PRR] PRR Cabins on M&E Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:46:46 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-reply-to: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcSU9NiY/M7RJe2sT1uI2dlqTRzEyACT3XVA Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com The PCL thread on NYC rider cars has migrated to why the PRR used cabin cars so often instead of coaches on mail & express trains. It occurs to me that one advantage of a cabin car, besides the desk, is the heat available from the stove. It would not be necessary to connect all the steam lines, or even to use a steam equipped loco, on a M&E train when the rider car was a cabin. regards, Andy Miller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Hough " Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:55:31 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] PRR HO Psngr Models.doc again From: "Ken Hough " Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:55:31 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] PRR HO Psngr Models.doc again Cc: "" From: Bruce Smith Subject: [PRR] Re: [PCL] PRR HO Psngr Models.doc again Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:22:59 -0500 To: "'PRR-Talk'" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I've added some kits and comments to Andy's list of models > PRR Class Model Mfr Model Type Comments P70 ALCO kit (OOP) - reportedly the basis of the ECW kit > P70 ECW kit note that the 6 wheel truck version is bogus and the 4 wheel trucks offered with these kits are some of the worst ever made. > P70 Bachmann RTR > P70r > P70fr > P70far ECW kit > P70fbr ECW kit > P70gs Laser Horizons sides P70GS NKP Products k