From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] PRR (S2) Tarnish Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 07:38:31 -0400 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Group, I am in the midst of working on a Brass S2 and the engine is very = tarnished... I am talking Black in some areas... I was looking for ideas = to remove the tarnish and not the details.... Any ideas out there? Thanks SamV ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] PRR (S2) Tarnish Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 07:38:31 -0400 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Group, I am in the midst of working on a Brass S2 and the engine is very = tarnished... I am talking Black in some areas... I was looking for ideas = to remove the tarnish and not the details.... Any ideas out there? Thanks SamV ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR (S2) Tarnish Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 07:49:21 -0700 From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR (S2) Tarnish Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 11:02:36 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Aug 2004 15:01:06.0194 (UTC) FILETIME=[894EFF20:01C478A1] Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Bruce, Dennis, Group, I don't have access to a blaster so I will try the Ajax Cleanser. The model doesn't have clear on is so that might work. thanks SamV ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis" To: "Sam Vastano" ; "PRR-TALK" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 10:49 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR (S2) Tarnish > I have had good luck using Ajax Cleanser and a toothbrush under warm > water. > > Good Luck > > Dennis Terebecki > > > > Group, > > > > I am in the midst of working on a Brass S2 and the engine is very > tarnished... I am talking Black in some areas... I was looking for > ideas to remove the tarnish and not the details.... > > > > Any ideas out there? > > > > Thanks > > > > SamV > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 11:24:17 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR (S2) Tarnish X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 46 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 8/2/04 8:41:52 AM, svastano@hotmail.com writes: << I am in the midst of working on a Brass S2 and the engine is very tarnished... I am talking Black in some areas... I was looking for ideas to remove the tarnish and not the details.... >> Sam - I've never tried it on brass, but when I clean metal, I use the "polishing compound" that is next to the car polish in the auto-motive supply shop. I don't think it is as abrasive as Ajax and shouldn't scratch. The polishing compound has grit in it but it does not seem to scratch. If there is also a splotchy coating, laquer, for example, I'll mix in a splash of mineral spirits. I, too, like to use old toothbrushes and collect them as the family runs through them. But, I use enough of them that I'll stop in a dollar store and, once in a while, pick up inexpensive new brushes for immediate use in the garage. Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 20:21:49 -0400 Subject: [PRR] PRR-Erie RR crossing at Kouts Ind. MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Greetings, Can anyone tell me if there was an Erie RR tower operator working in KOUTS tower along side of the PRR operators or did the PRR control the Erie-PRR mainline crossings alone? I also noticed (from a movie of the PRR-Erie RR crossing) that there are Erie semaphores signals protecting their main crossing. Are those semaphores control from KOUTS Tower? I have a PRR Chicago Division,Western Region interlocking book from the 1960s and it does say the KOUTS Tower is operated PRR 50% and Erie RR 50%, so maybe there was a Erie RR employee working the tower, but I'm not sure. Any info is appreciated,thanks in advance. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 20:31:40 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR E8s on the move east.Left Altoona @ 7:14pm List, 5711 & 5809 are moving east at a rapid pace. They left Altoona at 7:14 pm. Not much daylight left to watch. Pat McKinney [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 20:31:40 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR E8s on the move east.Left Altoona @ 7:14pm X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com List, 5711 & 5809 are moving east at a rapid pace. They left Altoona at 7:14 pm. Not much daylight left to watch. Pat McKinney ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 20:21:49 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR-Erie RR crossing at Kouts Ind. Greetings, Can anyone tell me if there was an Erie RR tower operator working in KOUTS tower along side of the PRR operators or did the PRR control the Erie-PRR mainline crossings alone? I also noticed (from a movie of the PRR-Erie RR crossing) that there are Erie semaphores signals protecting their main crossing. Are those semaphores control from KOUTS Tower? I have a PRR Chicago Division,Western Region interlocking book from the 1960s and it does say the KOUTS Tower is operated PRR 50% and Erie RR 50%, so maybe there was a Erie RR employee working the tower, but I'm not sure. Any info is appreciated,thanks in advance. Dave Hopson ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 20:21:49 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR-Erie RR crossing at Kouts Ind. Greetings, Can anyone tell me if there was an Erie RR tower operator working in KOUTS tower along side of the PRR operators or did the PRR control the Erie-PRR mainline crossings alone? I also noticed (from a movie of the PRR-Erie RR crossing) that there are Erie semaphores signals protecting their main crossing. Are those semaphores control from KOUTS Tower? I have a PRR Chicago Division,Western Region interlocking book from the 1960s and it does say the KOUTS Tower is operated PRR 50% and Erie RR 50%, so maybe there was a Erie RR employee working the tower, but I'm not sure. Any info is appreciated,thanks in advance. Dave Hopson ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR-Erie RR crossing at Kouts Ind. Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 20:55:27 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Dave, I can shed a little light on this as I was the VP-Traffic of the last railroad to operate the old Erie line, The Chicago & Indiana Railroad. The tower operator was a Conrail (by that time) employee and we had to notify CR 8 hours in advance of making a move so that they would be sure to have an employee on duty. I strongly suspect that the PRR always furnished the tower operator, but billed the Erie for half his wages, plus half to the cost of the electricity, light bulbs, pencils, paper, and yes, even toilet paper! We'd tell them we were coming, arrive, flash the headlight, and sound the horn for at least 10 minutes before they'd clear the interlocking, so yes, the tower definitely controlled the Erie signals. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:21 PM Subject: [PRR] PRR-Erie RR crossing at Kouts Ind. > Greetings, > > Can anyone tell me if there was an Erie RR tower operator > working in KOUTS tower along side of the PRR operators or did the PRR > control the Erie-PRR mainline crossings alone? I also noticed (from a > movie of the PRR-Erie RR crossing) that there are Erie semaphores > signals protecting their main crossing. Are those semaphores control > from KOUTS Tower? > I have a PRR Chicago Division,Western Region interlocking book > from the 1960s and it does say the KOUTS Tower is operated PRR 50% and > Erie RR 50%, so maybe there was a Erie RR employee working the tower, > but I'm not sure. > Any info is appreciated,thanks in advance. > > Dave Hopson > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWSNRHS@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 22:53:48 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR E8s on the move east.Left Altoona @ 7:14pm X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com In a message dated 08/02/2004 8:39:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PKMac101@aol.com writes: List, 5711 & 5809 are moving east at a rapid pace. They left Altoona at 7:14 pm. Not much daylight left to watch. Pat McKinney HI PAT I CAUGHT THE TRAIN AT 24TH ST AND 8TH ST JUNIATA BETWEEN 7 PM AND 7:14. . QUITE A SHOW. DOES ANYONE HAVE A LIST OF THE PRIVATE VARNISH IN THE CONSIST? dave seidel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 15:11:13 -0400 Subject: [PRR] "Susquehanna Limited" Excursion Slated From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com The Harrisburg Chapter of the National Railway Historical Society has announced the "Susquehanna Limited" fall foliage excursion for Saturday, October 30th. Bennett's restored PRR E8's will lead an Amtrak fall foliage excursion out of Harrisburg east on the Amtrak main line to Philadelphia, south on the Northeast Corridor to Perryville, north up the "Port Road" through Columbia and across Shocks Mill Bridge, west through Enola, and returning to Harrisburg via the Rockville Bridge. This route was taken a few years ago but was plagued by fog. Here's another chance! Details are on the chapter's web site at http://nrhs-hbg.pennsyrr.com/Events/ ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Prr1187@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 22:47:44 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR E8s on the move east.Left Altoona @ 7:14pm X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Here was the consist in order headed westbound upon arrival at Dennison, Ohio: Engine 5711A Engine 5809A Pointe St. Charles Puget Sound Domed car Sierra Hotel Domed car Caritas Cimarron River Mount Vernon Dover Harbor Warrior Ridge PRR 120 It is my understanding that Pointe St. Charles went from Chicago to Pittsburgh to join the Buckeye Limited at Pittsburgh and was to separate at Pittsburgh on the return and join the Capital Limited back to Chicago. Regards, Dennis Sautters Canton, OH ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 09:18:33 -0400 Subject: [PRR] "Trackside on the PRR in Central Pennsylvania" From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Morning Sun's new book -- "Trackside on the PRR in Central Pennsylvania" -- has shipped. I received mine last evening. I only had time to give it a quick "go through", but I'll toss out these comments: * The MSB ad, despite the title, led you to believe it was more around Horseshoe Curve. Not so. A few pages east of Harrisburg, quite a few of Harrisburg, many up the Buffalo main line, and a lesser quantity out the main line. * Though some photos are out of focus, they are appreciated due to the new/unique content. Many show the structural content of the railroad, rather than just the loco at the head of a train. * Bonus for me... many photos of Harrisburg that I hadn't seen before, including some from October 1954, just one month off from my modeling date! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] "Trackside on the PRR in Central Pennsylvania" Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:04:18 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3501579F8815D511AEC6009027CCB5D35E3EE5@HERZOGMGMT> Return-Path: bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Aug 2004 13:51:02.0519 (UTC) FILETIME=[148C9870:01C47A2A] Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com This is a personal note to Dan Cupper because his a.o.l e-mails from me always "bounce". Dan was requesting information (from me) as to what year the Enola Roundhouse was torn down. My message to Dan is that the photo on page 23 of the subject book shows that by 1968 when the photo was taken, the structure had been razed. Hope this helps. Bill Volkmer -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Britton Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 9:19 AM To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: [PRR] "Trackside on the PRR in Central Pennsylvania" Morning Sun's new book -- "Trackside on the PRR in Central Pennsylvania" -- has shipped. I received mine last evening. I only had time to give it a quick "go through", but I'll toss out these comments: * The MSB ad, despite the title, led you to believe it was more around Horseshoe Curve. Not so. A few pages east of Harrisburg, quite a few of Harrisburg, many up the Buffalo main line, and a lesser quantity out the main line. * Though some photos are out of focus, they are appreciated due to the new/unique content. Many show the structural content of the railroad, rather than just the loco at the head of a train. * Bonus for me... many photos of Harrisburg that I hadn't seen before, including some from October 1954, just one month off from my modeling date! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:02:28 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] "Trackside on the PRR in Central Pennsylvania" From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Wednesday, August 4, 2004, at 10:04 AM, Bill Volkmer wrote: > Dan was requesting information (from me) as to what year the Enola > Roundhouse was torn down. > > My message to Dan is that the photo on page 23 of the subject book > shows > that by 1968 when the photo was taken, the structure had been razed. > Hope this helps. The turntable is still there, and I've seen it in operation, turning diesels! Is it the original bridge, or was it modernized at some point? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:59:15 -0400 Subject: [PRR] TANGENT - John Armstrong Memorial Service From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com If anyone is interested... John Armstrong's Memorial service will be at 3PM on Sunday, August 15th, at Northwood Presbyterian Church in Silver Spring MD. (1200 University Blvd West, at the intersection of University and Arcola.) -- From the LDSIG list. I have seen many PRR layouts based on his plans. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: RE: [PRR] TANGENT - John Armstrong Memorial Service Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 18:28:19 +0000 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 16:50:45 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "sjlash" Subject: [PRR] John Armstrong X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi Guys, I probably missed some "posts" on my end after yesterday aftern= oon's weather. Would you be kind enough to furnish the details again abou= t John Armstrong. = Thanks Jim ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] RSD15 (AS24m) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 07:44:35 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I note Broadway Limited has announced these. What are the major = spotting differences (besides, I surmise, a steam generator) between = these and the RSD7 (APS24ms)? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] RSD15 (AS24m) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 09:20:16 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3501579F8815D511AEC6009027CCB5D35E40C0@HERZOGMGMT> Return-Path: bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Aug 2004 13:06:57.0302 (UTC) FILETIME=[164A4360:01C47AED] Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Externally the RSD-15 did not have the water tank ahead of the fuel tank. Bubt the big difference was INTERNAL. The RSD-7 (APS-24ms) had an (old style) Alco 244-H engine which was a 16 cylinder version of the RS3 or, if you will, a modernized PA-2 engine. The RSD-15 had an Alco 16 cylinder 251 model, which was a stretched RS-11 12-cylinder model. As far as I know, only the C&O and Santa Fe had the 244 models other than the Pennsy. Bill Volkmerm -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bob Zoeller Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:45 AM To: PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] RSD15 (AS24m) I note Broadway Limited has announced these. What are the major spotting differences (besides, I surmise, a steam generator) between these and the RSD7 (APS24ms)? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 06:42:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Daniels Subject: [PRR] Re: Fwd: FW: NEW PRODUCTS: ALCO RSD15 & PRR K4s Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 06:42:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Daniels Subject: [PRR] Re: Fwd: FW: NEW PRODUCTS: ALCO RSD15 & PRR K4s From: "Gatwood, Elden -- Tt, Inc." Subject: RE: [PRR] RSD15 (AS24m) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 07:40:10 -0700 From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bill Volkmer Subject: RE: [PRR] RSD15 (AS24m) From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bob Subject: [PRR] RSD15 (AS24m) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 10:35:30 -0400 Subject: [PRR] BLI K4s Announcement From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Since complete details were not posted, here is a PSA... Broadway Limited Imports, LLC is proud to announce its newest series of=20= products, "Paragon Series Platinum". PSP products are constructed out=20 of diecast metal for greater weight & heft and are detailed even more=20 immaculately than the original Paragon Series=99 products. All products=20= bearing the PSP seal are designed and built with one concept in=20 mind=97"To be, without question, the highest quality model railroading=20= product money can buy." Broadway Limited Imports is confident that the=20= PSP line of products will define the top-tier of model railroading. The first release in the Paragon Series Platinum line is the much=20 requested PRR K4s. The K-4s=92 were the most outstandingly successful = and=20 recognized class of locomotives on the Pennsylvania Railroad. 425 units=20= were built from 1914 to 1928 and were numbered in random order (a=20 Pennsy practice) from #8 to #8378. Serving through both World Wars and beyond, even the modern Duplexes=20 did not replace them as the mainline steam passenger engines. Our K-4s models are being made of die-cast construction with many, many=20= added-on details to rival in appearance models costing 3 times the=20 price. We also supply a spare driver pair with traction tires for those=20= who operate their trains on steep grades. We are expecting a very limited quantity of our HO PRR K-4s models by=20 October of 2004, and of course, they will be fully decorated and=20 feature our Quantum=99 sound and control system! stk# Item Description 321 PRR K-4s #646 w/slatted pilot, headlight on smokebox front, short=20 lettering, HO 322 PRR K-4s #1453 w/slatted pilot, headlight on smokebox front, short=20= lettering, HO 323 PRR K-4s w/slatted pilot, headlight on smokebox front, unlettered,=20= HO 324 PRR K-4s #5451 w/slatted pilot, generator on smokebox front, HO 325 PRR K-4s #7279 w/slatted pilot, generator on smokebox front, HO 326 PRR K-4s w/slatted pilot, generator on smokebox front, unlettered,=20= HO 327 PRR K-4s #5418 w/cast pilot, generator on smokebox front, HO 328 PRR K-4s #1361 w/cast pilot, generator on smokebox front, HO 329 PRR K-4s w/cast pilot, generator on smokebox front, unlettered, HO MSRP - $450 Expected: October 2004. Preordering=A0is highly recommended as quantities will be very limited. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com= ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 11:03:02 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Bennett's E8's on Trains Site! From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <8C3225AC-E6F0-11D8-A168-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com The "Photo of the Day" on the Trains web site features the excursion train led by Bennett's E8's returning from Dennison, Ohio, on August 2nd... http://www.trains.com/photogallery/ gallery_large.asp?idObjectLibraryGUID=%7BDB3B8E93-BA09-4148-8231- 520FAD411FC1%7D ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] O Winston Link Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 15:51:57 +0000 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Nice article on the back page of The Wall Street Journal today regarding the opening of the O. Winston Link museum in Roanoke. Article includes the drive in movie shot with the Y passing in the background. Whoever reviewed his work is admitidly not a railfan but he gushes pretty good about the photography. PRR connection - the railroad station which houses the museum was designed by Raymond Loewy in the forties according to the article and one of my favorite pictures Link shot is of the four side by side GG1 noses from a low angle in Pennsy Power. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 13:17:10 -0400 Subject: [PRR] BLI K4s Road Numbers and 1954 Assignments From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <491838A4-E703-11D8-A168-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I checked the road numbers BLI has selected for their K4s offerings and looked them up in the MP229 from March of 1954. They were assigned as follows: #646 Middle Division #1361 New York Division (later moved to Horseshoe Curve; now being restored) #1453 New York Division #5418 Pittsburgh Division #5451 Eastern Division #7279 Atlantic Division Of course, the 1954 assignments have no bearing on the era that BLI is presenting the road number as. Four of the six road numbers will have the slatted pilots and two the cast pilots. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: [PRR] RSD_15 alco Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 17:28:36 -0400 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com the big alco RSD-15 looks like it will finally be built. YAY !! the = question now is how will they handle the fuel/ water tank arrangement = under the frame. the p.r.r. version had only one ( fuel ) tank under the frame, if i = remember correctly. my guess is that b.l.i. will want to make the = two tank version so that there will be room for the speaker.......then again maybe a smaller = unit could be shoehorned into the single tank. any thoughts on this = ??? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 07:52:08 -0400 From: Don Murphy Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K4s Announcement X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out001.verizon.net from [4.41.106.228] at Fri, 6 Aug 2004 06:52:10 -0500 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I own several BLI engines and think they're great but the $450.00 price tag on the K4 makes me think of what a great deal my PFM and Red Ball K4s are! Don Murphy Jerry Britton wrote: > Since complete details were not posted, here is a PSA... > > Broadway Limited Imports, LLC is proud to announce its newest series > of products, "Paragon Series Platinum". PSP products are constructed > out of diecast metal for greater weight & heft and are detailed even > more immaculately than the original Paragon Series™ products. All > products bearing the PSP seal are designed and built with one concept > in mind—"To be, without question, the highest quality model > railroading product money can buy." Broadway Limited Imports is > confident that the PSP line of products will define the top-tier of > model railroading. > > The first release in the Paragon Series Platinum line is the much > requested PRR K4s. The K-4s’ were the most outstandingly successful > and recognized class of locomotives on the Pennsylvania Railroad. 425 > units were built from 1914 to 1928 and were numbered in random order > (a Pennsy practice) from #8 to #8378. > > Serving through both World Wars and beyond, even the modern Duplexes > did not replace them as the mainline steam passenger engines. > > Our K-4s models are being made of die-cast construction with many, > many added-on details to rival in appearance models costing 3 times > the price. We also supply a spare driver pair with traction tires for > those who operate their trains on steep grades. > > We are expecting a very limited quantity of our HO PRR K-4s models by > October of 2004, and of course, they will be fully decorated and > feature our Quantum™ sound and control system! > > stk# Item Description > > 321 PRR K-4s #646 w/slatted pilot, headlight on smokebox front, short > lettering, HO > > 322 PRR K-4s #1453 w/slatted pilot, headlight on smokebox front, short > lettering, HO > > 323 PRR K-4s w/slatted pilot, headlight on smokebox front, unlettered, HO > > 324 PRR K-4s #5451 w/slatted pilot, generator on smokebox front, HO > > 325 PRR K-4s #7279 w/slatted pilot, generator on smokebox front, HO > > 326 PRR K-4s w/slatted pilot, generator on smokebox front, unlettered, HO > > 327 PRR K-4s #5418 w/cast pilot, generator on smokebox front, HO > > 328 PRR K-4s #1361 w/cast pilot, generator on smokebox front, HO > > 329 PRR K-4s w/cast pilot, generator on smokebox front, unlettered, HO > > MSRP - $450 > > Expected: October 2004. > > Preordering is highly recommended as quantities will be very limited. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K4s Announcement Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 07:52:56 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Murphy" > I own several BLI engines and think they're great but the $450.00 price > tag on the K4 makes me think of what a great deal my PFM and Red Ball > K4s are! The decision to make these "platinum" models at a price 58% higher than the M1b has put me off as well, to the extent I have ordered one instead of the two I had orignally considered. To have to jump $400 (list) over my Bowser or Bachmann to update 50 year old tooling or get a more appropriate tender or pulling power in one loco seems a bit much. This marketing move (further upscale) by BLI has helped me make another decision, though. I had been trying to decide what loco to move my Soundtraxx decoder to from my Bowser M1, now that I have the BLI version. Originally I had hesitated moving it to my I1 as BLI is coming out with one. Since the PFM United I1 runs so flawlessly, now I know. I can only shudder to think what a "platinum" I1 will cost. To those who say the BLI loco is a value, I don't disagree. However, I wonder how closely the two markets, the super-detailed brass collector and the operators, will come together to meet BLI's expectations. I have already cut my purchase in half, being an operator. As previously stated, I don't need superdetail which will get knocked off in operation; I just want an in-scale loco with "satisfactory" detail, appropriate tender, correct driver diameter, and the power to pull more than its own tender. Actually, I originally wanted two of them :-). And by the way, the emphasis on the "limited run" aspect of this offering makes this smell like the collector brass market all over again. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI K4s Announcement Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 09:10:14 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-reply-to: <002301c47bb4$4c2f1420$6401a8c0@userrtilb5vp8t> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcR7tGHlwZhlq3D3QjysxC150MxCtwAAcSpA Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Perhaps BLI would consider a marketing experiment. Release two version of the I1, one a Paragon Platinum, and one a lesser detailed Powerhouse series. They could see which version produces the most total profit for BLI. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bob Zoeller Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 8:53 AM To: PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K4s Announcement ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Murphy" > I own several BLI engines and think they're great but the $450.00 price > tag on the K4 makes me think of what a great deal my PFM and Red Ball > K4s are! The decision to make these "platinum" models at a price 58% higher than the M1b has put me off as well, to the extent I have ordered one instead of the two I had orignally considered. To have to jump $400 (list) over my Bowser or Bachmann to update 50 year old tooling or get a more appropriate tender or pulling power in one loco seems a bit much. This marketing move (further upscale) by BLI has helped me make another decision, though. I had been trying to decide what loco to move my Soundtraxx decoder to from my Bowser M1, now that I have the BLI version. Originally I had hesitated moving it to my I1 as BLI is coming out with one. Since the PFM United I1 runs so flawlessly, now I know. I can only shudder to think what a "platinum" I1 will cost. To those who say the BLI loco is a value, I don't disagree. However, I wonder how closely the two markets, the super-detailed brass collector and the operators, will come together to meet BLI's expectations. I have already cut my purchase in half, being an operator. As previously stated, I don't need superdetail which will get knocked off in operation; I just want an in-scale loco with "satisfactory" detail, appropriate tender, correct driver diameter, and the power to pull more than its own tender. Actually, I originally wanted two of them :-). And by the way, the emphasis on the "limited run" aspect of this offering makes this smell like the collector brass market all over again. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K4s Announcement Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 09:40:48 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Aug 2004 13:39:15.0949 (UTC) FILETIME=[C43A11D0:01C47BBA] Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Maybe this is the marketing experiment? To see how deep people's pockets are? I can't wait for someone else to come out with a decoder/sound that could be retrofitted to brass etc. that will work DCC or DC and see how far BLI's price will drop! Just my 2 cents SamV ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Miller" To: "'Bob Zoeller'" ; Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 9:10 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI K4s Announcement > Perhaps BLI would consider a marketing experiment. Release two version of > the I1, one a Paragon Platinum, and one a lesser detailed Powerhouse series. > They could see which version produces the most total profit for BLI. > > regards, > > Andy Miller > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bob Zoeller > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 8:53 AM > To: PRR-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K4s Announcement > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Murphy" > > > > I own several BLI engines and think they're great but the $450.00 price > > tag on the K4 makes me think of what a great deal my PFM and Red Ball > > K4s are! > > The decision to make these "platinum" models at a price 58% higher than the > M1b has put me off as well, to the extent I have ordered one instead of the > two I had orignally considered. To have to jump $400 (list) over my Bowser > or Bachmann to update 50 year old tooling or get a more appropriate tender > or pulling power in one loco seems a bit much. > > This marketing move (further upscale) by BLI has helped me make another > decision, though. I had been trying to decide what loco to move my > Soundtraxx decoder to from my Bowser M1, now that I have the BLI version. > Originally I had hesitated moving it to my I1 as BLI is coming out with one. > Since the PFM United I1 runs so flawlessly, now I know. I can only shudder > to think what a "platinum" I1 will cost. > > To those who say the BLI loco is a value, I don't disagree. However, I > wonder how closely the two markets, the super-detailed brass collector and > the operators, will come together to meet BLI's expectations. I have > already cut my purchase in half, being an operator. As previously stated, I > don't need superdetail which will get knocked off in operation; I just want > an in-scale loco with "satisfactory" detail, appropriate tender, correct > driver diameter, and the power to pull more than its own tender. Actually, I > originally wanted two of them :-). > > And by the way, the emphasis on the "limited run" aspect of this offering > makes this smell like the collector brass market all over again. > > Bob Zoeller > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K4s Announcement Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 13:44:31 +0000 From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI K4s Announcement Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 10:11:35 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-reply-to: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcR7vDgwvNvr2+A1TmSHXLkFDeZaCAAApJFg Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Sound and DCC decoders mean nothing to collectors. Many of them never open the box. Certainly they NEVER do anything as foolish putting couplers on their engines! So BLI must still see the model RRers as their primary market. How they imagine that model Rrers will flock to $500 locos is beyond me. They good news is that perhaps the traction tired optional driver will be available separately and that with some work it can be fitted to Bachman K4s to help them pull. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Ted Andrews Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 9:45 AM To: bobspf@wi.rr.com; PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K4s Announcement Bob Zoeller wrote: "I have already cut my purchase in half, being an operator. As previously stated, I don't need superdetail which will get knocked off in operation; I just want an in-scale loco with "satisfactory" detail, appropriate tender, correct driver diameter, and the power to pull more than its own tender. Actually, I originally wanted two of them :-)." "And by the way, the emphasis on the "limited run" aspect of this offering makes this smell like the collector brass market all over again." I quite agree. The price is making me reconsider my purchases as well. I was thinking of two and may go down to one as well. The retail price is $450 but the price that you will see it for sale will be in the high $300's....still a salty price. I think that BLI must remember that their market is for modelers who, for the most part, want to run the engines on layouts and are interested in performance. Pricey, highly detailed, limited edition engines are more geared towards collectors who rarely run their engines. Ted Andrews ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Edmund Burbage" Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 10:21:54 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 08:03:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K4s Announcement From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI K4s Announcement Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 11:20:28 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-reply-to: <20040806150322.96671.qmail@web52605.mail.yahoo.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcR7x1UeirBP/O0GSRC9n/cV6ngUzQAAM8ZA Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I bought my PFM K4 for list price $49.95 ! I have bought used Bowser K4s for $25, and rebuilt them. Any of these locos can handle a 17 car train over the long 2% grades at my club. With the traction tire, I am sure the BLI K4 will do as well. But neither the T1 or the M1 can match that. It sure would be nice if BLI or an after market maker(Greenway?) Would offer drivers with traction tires for the older BLI locos. The only problem which must be considered is whether the increase in tractive effort would raise the current draw of the motor above the limit of the QSI receiver. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bill Daniels Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 11:03 AM To: PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K4s Announcement Bob, List and all... I'm not going to defend BLI's pricing on these but I would like to point out a couple of things... First of all, the street price is shaping up to be $350.00 for these, only slightly less than $30.00 over the T1's and J1's. Secondly, I seem to remember some people on this list complaining about the level of cast-on detail on BLI's previous offerings. Now BLI seems to be responding to these complaints by offering a higher level of detail...(and on the premier passenger locomotive of the PRR to boot... wonder how much ruckus would have been raised if BLI had offered this as a NYC J3 instead?) Note to Bob Z...Where oh where are you buying Bowser K4s's at 50 bucks? I remember paying that much for one back in the late 60's. Today the delux kit (which is the only one to get, since it has most of the proper detail supplied) lists for $239.95...then you have to buy a new motor (Helix Humper/Alco/Realistic Lighting/whoever is selling these now), additional details (to supplement what Bowser dosen't offer), DCC controler/sound card, and THEN you either get to build it or have to build it (depending on your prespective), paint it and letter it, and deal with the pie-tin sized rivet detail. Don't get me wrong...I like my Bowser kits. But I most likely won't be getting another one (well...unless BLI does a straight M1 or B6sb) It just ain't worth it. As for brass...just fuggetabout it. 30 to 40 year old brass models (even the PFM models) are very obsolete by todays standards. Many are in serious need of through rebuilding. They remind me of my 72 MGB...spend 3 or 4 grand on an complete engine build, drive it for maybe 50k miles and do it all over again...with NO air, power assisted steering (somebody's getting spoiled), leaks like a sieve (hell, the Brit's drive the things in the rain with the top DOWN!) poor acceleration and handling. And the faithful just go on and on about "charachter". But they are "good enough" for many of us...(I don't drive mine anymore...bought a used Miata last year and don't regret it ONE BIT.) And I just got an update on a street price (literally just came in as I was writing this) of $330.00...(the RSD15's are also down as well). As for "limited run"...face it, that's a fact of life in today's imported market. I don't like it anymore than you do, but when you import "runs" (to use an old brass importer term)(funny thing...nobody whined about brass being limited run) that's the way it is. Nobody in today's market can afford to sit on inventory for any length of time. I remember when a local hobby shop got a desirable model in we would all want it...and when it sold (six months to a year later) whine that "I wanted that"... looking back to those days I can now understand why that shop (like so many these days) is no longer with us. I'm looking forward to my K4s...I need power for my pre-war Broadway. Who knows, maybe BLI will do the streamlined versions. Looks to me that there is just no pleasing some guys... Bill Daniels __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 08:33:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Daniels Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI K4s Announcement > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] > Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K4s Announcement From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K4s Announcement Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 11:27:32 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Miller" > > They good news is that perhaps the traction tired optional driver will be > available separately and that with some work it can be fitted to Bachman K4s > to help them pull. Unfortunately, the Bachmann K4s driver is undersized, which is what makes it look odd. I hope that a $300 plus loco will have the correct diameter drivers :-). Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K4s Announcement Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 11:50:38 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Daniels" > Secondly, I seem to remember some people on this list > complaining about the level of cast-on detail on BLI's > previous offerings. Not I > > Note to Bob Z...Where oh where are you buying Bowser > K4s's at 50 bucks? Of course you are right, Bill. They are no bargain today. I am talking about reviving the one in my storage locker :-). > As for brass...just fuggetabout it. 30 to 40 year old > brass models (even the PFM models) are very obsolete > by todays standards. Many are in serious need of > through rebuilding. If you have any PFM United K4s pre beauty treatment around, let me know. I am assuming they on a par with the I1. A simple remotoring for DCC and you are set. My I1 easily runs on a par with the best Atlas and Stewart diesels. I don't have any recent Key steamers around (and neither do my fellow club members ) to compare it to :-). I agree, though, that old brass is hit or miss. I had excellent luck on Gem J1 (which I am now selling) , G5, and H10, even a Red Ball B6s, but my Gem E6s had a lot of brittle solder joints . Still, nice loco with a little bit of resoldering. On the list to remotor for DCC. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K4s Announcement Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 11:59:41 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Miller" It > sure would be nice if BLI or an after market maker(Greenway?) Would offer > drivers with traction tires for the older BLI locos. The only problem which > must be considered is whether the increase in tractive effort would raise > the current draw of the motor above the limit of the QSI receiver. Want a totally unproven answer?:-) When I asked, BLI at least verbally suggested the article on adding about 9 ounces or so of lead to the M1b to me. I couldn't find a space for more than 4 ounces (which helps considerably by the way) but I would assume if you can add 9 ounces of lead and not fry the receiver, a traction tire shouldn't harm it either. Another unproven assumption I would make (while I am winging it): maybe the receiver in the T1 and M1b has same limits as J1. I'll ask the question on the QSI list. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: [PRR] Motor insulation for DCC (was:BLI K4s Announcement) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 13:08:54 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-reply-to: <002b01c47bd5$80cf8270$6401a8c0@userrtilb5vp8t> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcR71pI+9GS/ef5jSKeu+T4qOtr+TgAAN0fA Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com The only motor requirement for DCC is that both brushes be insulated from the frame. On most older locos, one brush was grounded to the motor chassis. Its usually easy to correct that. Sometimes it means nothing more than slipping a piece of tubing over the brush spring. There may be other reasons to change to a can motor, like better tractive force, lower current draw, or smoother operation. But I wouldn't spend $30 -40 just to insulate a brush. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bob Zoeller Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:51 PM To: PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K4s Announcement ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Daniels" > Secondly, I seem to remember some people on this list complaining > about the level of cast-on detail on BLI's previous offerings. Not I > > Note to Bob Z...Where oh where are you buying Bowser K4s's at 50 > bucks? Of course you are right, Bill. They are no bargain today. I am talking about reviving the one in my storage locker :-). > As for brass...just fuggetabout it. 30 to 40 year old brass models > (even the PFM models) are very obsolete by todays standards. Many are > in serious need of through rebuilding. If you have any PFM United K4s pre beauty treatment around, let me know. I am assuming they on a par with the I1. A simple remotoring for DCC and you are set. My I1 easily runs on a par with the best Atlas and Stewart diesels. I don't have any recent Key steamers around (and neither do my fellow club members ) to compare it to :-). I agree, though, that old brass is hit or miss. I had excellent luck on Gem J1 (which I am now selling) , G5, and H10, even a Red Ball B6s, but my Gem E6s had a lot of brittle solder joints . Still, nice loco with a little bit of resoldering. On the list to remotor for DCC. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI K4s Announcement Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 13:10:54 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-reply-to: <003601c47bd6$c4448860$6401a8c0@userrtilb5vp8t> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcR718jIq2EyTphXQIGHrJSiFXbuIQAAHAFg Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Bob, Where did you put the weight on the M1? The only space I found (and filled with Pb) was behind the motor. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bob Zoeller Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 1:00 PM To: PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K4s Announcement ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Miller" It > sure would be nice if BLI or an after market maker(Greenway?) Would > offer drivers with traction tires for the older BLI locos. The only > problem which > must be considered is whether the increase in tractive effort would > raise the current draw of the motor above the limit of the QSI receiver. Want a totally unproven answer?:-) When I asked, BLI at least verbally suggested the article on adding about 9 ounces or so of lead to the M1b to me. I couldn't find a space for more than 4 ounces (which helps considerably by the way) but I would assume if you can add 9 ounces of lead and not fry the receiver, a traction tire shouldn't harm it either. Another unproven assumption I would make (while I am winging it): maybe the receiver in the T1 and M1b has same limits as J1. I'll ask the question on the QSI list. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: [PRR] PRR Steam loco headlights Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 13:50:48 -0400 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com As I work to convert my many locos to DCC I have at least one problem I have not yet resolved. All of my steam engines have been equipped with diode drop constant voltage headlights. These won't work on both DC and DCC. One of the few solutions which will work is to replace them with white LEDS. But putting LEDs in the PRR modern headlights seems almost impossible. How does one fit the square backs of the LEDs with exposed rigid leads into the headlight casting and keep everything insulted from the body? Has anyone succeeded in this? Modelers of other roads don't have this problem for two reasons: first most headlight housings are drum shaped with a flat back, as were the older PR headlights; and second most RRs mounted their headlights on the center of the smokebox, so the lead can just come straight back into the boiler with minimum exposure. regards, Andy Miller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: [PRR] PRR Steam loco headlights Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 13:50:48 -0400 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com As I work to convert my many locos to DCC I have at least one problem I have not yet resolved. All of my steam engines have been equipped with diode drop constant voltage headlights. These won't work on both DC and DCC. One of the few solutions which will work is to replace them with white LEDS. But putting LEDs in the PRR modern headlights seems almost impossible. How does one fit the square backs of the LEDs with exposed rigid leads into the headlight casting and keep everything insulted from the body? Has anyone succeeded in this? Modelers of other roads don't have this problem for two reasons: first most headlight housings are drum shaped with a flat back, as were the older PR headlights; and second most RRs mounted their headlights on the center of the smokebox, so the lead can just come straight back into the boiler with minimum exposure. regards, Andy Miller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Motor insulation for DCC (was:BLI K4s Announcement) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 13:01:14 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com My J weighs 3 pounds and when it stalled the first time, it had a smoke unit where the decoder was. I replaced that open frame motor with a low-speed high-torque NWSL for nearly $30. Top speed about 65mph. Ditto for my I1. My E6 and a couple others in line will get a $4 can motor. Seems to have good performance on the bench (I got 10 for $40 including shipping), but I'll see how it holds up in use. At $4 my investment risk is low :-). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Miller" To: "'Bob Zoeller'" ; ; Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:08 PM Subject: [PRR] Motor insulation for DCC (was:BLI K4s Announcement) > There may be other reasons to change to a can motor, like better tractive > force, lower current draw, or smoother operation. But I wouldn't spend $30 > -40 just to insulate a brush. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 18:58:45 GMT Subject: [PRR] Models Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 14:55:05 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: BLI K-4s Annoucement From: John Sheets Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 14:55:05 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: BLI K-4s Annoucement From: John Sheets Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 16:11:52 -0400 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI K4s Announcement Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Andy writes... ==============================================================Sound and DCC decoders mean nothing to collectors. Many of them never open the box. Certainly they NEVER do anything as foolish putting couplers on their engines! So BLI must still see the model RRers as their primary market. How they imagine that model Rrers will flock to $500 locos is beyond me. The good news is that perhaps the traction tired optional driver will be available separately and that with some work it can be fitted to Bachman K4s to help them pull. regards, Andy Miller ============================================================== Gize, I am cross posting this to PRR-Modeling as well as these folks need to be informred as well. I sent the announcement to AL so he could do the honors of posting the announcement and it will be in TKM as well. I have know for several days now that the DL600b's and the K4's were coming. The folks I buy my BLI from have announced the K4's at $330.00 and the DL600b's at $197.50 (PRR). Tis makes them a lot more affordable and attractive. You might see them a bit lower we shall see. BLI has obviously taken the market by surprise with the announcement and there are those that will banter the products, I call them non-believers. BLI can caputure much more of the market if their prototype research is enhanced and theuir attenton to detail is more closely monitored than with in the past. I think all you need do is look at what Life Like did with the RS-11 in the Proto 1000 series hitting new heights with the extreme attention to detail. We will pay for detail like door latches, see through steps, cut levers and all that we have come to expect first from the brass importers and then from the plastic manufacturers. WE deserve it! The attention to detail justifies the price, and we can only hope they are watchng as we vote with our dollars in this hobby. Andy you are correct sir... Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 16:37:58 -0400 From: Don Murphy Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K4s Announcement X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out007.verizon.net from [4.41.106.228] at Fri, 6 Aug 2004 15:38:00 -0500 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hearing the street price of 330.00 is OK. Maybe I'll get one. I was planning on three and putting the brass into semi-retirement. Adding a Soundtrax decoder to a $200.00 RedBall or a $250.00 PFM K4 is sounding really good right now. They don't have cast on details and I know I can fix them no matter what happens. I've been cruising Ebay this morning and the depressed price of brass looks so good to me as a buyer compared to the list price on the BLI K4. I won a Sakara(?) PFM B&O 0-4-0 for $80.00 the other day. A deal indeed. Old Varney 0-4-0's with Central Valley valve gear go at times for almost as much. Don Murphy The Docter of Steam Bill Daniels wrote: >Bob, List and all... > >I'm not going to defend BLI's pricing on these but I >would like to point out a couple of things... > >First of all, the street price is shaping up to be >$350.00 for these, only slightly less than $30.00 over >the T1's and J1's. > >Secondly, I seem to remember some people on this list >complaining about the level of cast-on detail on BLI's >previous offerings. Now BLI seems to be responding to >these complaints by offering a higher level of >detail...(and on the premier passenger locomotive of >the PRR to boot... wonder how much ruckus would have >been raised if BLI had offered this as a NYC J3 >instead?) > >Note to Bob Z...Where oh where are you buying Bowser >K4s's at 50 bucks? I remember paying that much for one >back in the late 60's. Today the delux kit (which is >the only one to get, since it has most of the proper >detail supplied) lists for $239.95...then you have to >buy a new motor (Helix Humper/Alco/Realistic >Lighting/whoever is selling these now), additional >details (to supplement what Bowser dosen't offer), DCC >controler/sound card, and THEN you either get to build >it or have to build it (depending on your >prespective), paint it and letter it, and deal with >the pie-tin sized rivet detail. > >Don't get me wrong...I like my Bowser kits. But I most >likely won't be getting another one (well...unless BLI >does a straight M1 or B6sb) It just ain't worth it. > >As for brass...just fuggetabout it. 30 to 40 year old >brass models (even the PFM models) are very obsolete >by todays standards. Many are in serious need of >through rebuilding. They remind me of my 72 >MGB...spend 3 or 4 grand on an complete engine build, >drive it for maybe 50k miles and do it all over >again...with NO air, power assisted steering >(somebody's getting spoiled), leaks like a sieve >(hell, the Brit's drive the things in the rain with >the top DOWN!) poor acceleration and handling. And the >faithful just go on and on about "charachter". But >they are "good enough" for many of us...(I don't drive >mine anymore...bought a used Miata last year and don't >regret it ONE BIT.) > >And I just got an update on a street price (literally >just came in as I was writing this) of $330.00...(the >RSD15's are also down as well). > >As for "limited run"...face it, that's a fact of life >in today's imported market. I don't like it anymore >than you do, but when you import "runs" (to use an old >brass importer term)(funny thing...nobody whined about >brass being limited run) that's the way it is. Nobody >in today's market can afford to sit on inventory for >any length of time. I remember when a local hobby shop >got a desirable model in we would all want it...and >when it sold (six months to a year later) whine that >"I wanted that"... looking back to those days I can >now understand why that shop (like so many these days) >is no longer with us. > >I'm looking forward to my K4s...I need power for my >pre-war Broadway. Who knows, maybe BLI will do the >streamlined versions. Looks to me that there is just >no pleasing some guys... > >Bill Daniels > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! >http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 18:35:11 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: ealauterbach@earthlink.net Subject: [PRR] BLI K7 Stock Car Pictures X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com The Broadway Limited website now has pictures of the upcoming Pennsy based stock car on it. It looks pretty good from the pictures. Speaking of pictures, I wonder how long before pictures are up of the K4 that is coming out. Eric ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Randy Williamson Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 22:25:16 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] RSD-15s Assignments According to the January, 1958 Assignment sheets. 8611-8616 were assigned to the Philadelphia Region. January 1962 showed 8611 - New York Region, 8612 - Northern Region, 8613 - New York Region, 8614-8616 - Northern Region. By May, 1967, they had be renumbered in the 6811-6816 series and were assigned to Conway. Dayna & Randy Williamson http://prrfreight.trainstuffllc.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/raYplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 22:25:16 -0500 From: Randy Williamson Subject: [PRR] RSD-15s Assignments From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 23:47:12 EDT Subject: [PRR] P70 Coach Wheel Diameter X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com What size wheels were used on these coaches? 36" Dia.? Thank you, Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 23:47:12 EDT Subject: [PRR] P70 Coach Wheel Diameter X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com What size wheels were used on these coaches? 36" Dia.? Thank you, Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] B6 Roster Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 09:10:17 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Listers, Is there an engine roster availible where I can find out=20 which B6 class engines didn't have a slop-back tender in=20 its career? I ask beacuse i'm about to acquire one for a=20 very good price that is DCC equipped.=20 Best Regards, John Designer, Modeler, Consultant Mount Vernon Shops Baltimore, MD Specializing in HO & N scale for the Pennsy modeler. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 14:06:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] Bethlehem/Intermountain B60b in the flesh Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 22:28:33 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K7 Stock Car Pictures From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com > The Broadway Limited website now has pictures of the upcoming Pennsy based > stock car on it. It looks pretty good from the pictures. Speaking of > pictures, I wonder how long before pictures are up of the K4 that is > coming out. > Eric Interesting... I got all paranoid reading the latest RMC review of the N&W H-2A. RMC says that the difference between the Paragon cars (H-2A) and the Powerhouse cars (eg. the K7A) is that the Powerhouse are supposed to have less detail, like molded on grabs... Fortunately, it appears that the K7A has seperate grabs, even if they do look a bit odd on the pre-production model. Issues I do see: 1) Klunky hangers on the top of the door 2) Oversize top and bottom door track 3) Paint color!!!!! Looks way too brown in the photos (could be lighting) Regards Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 23:30:08 EDT Subject: [PRR] Bethlehem/Intermountain B60b in the flesh X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com As I have converted the majority of my cars to the Kadee 58 coupler, the pad the coupler box is mounted to was milled down 0.030" to allow for the 58's. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K4s Announcement Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 23:31:22 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-ELNK-Trace: 65fbc22f705d6e9971639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9405ef60c5887682e6584bbb4d587f9fea7350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 199.174.137.158 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hi Andy--You can put lead in the steam chest if you keep clearance for the "pistons" and attach it to the underside of the cab roof. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Miller" To: "'Bob Zoeller'" ; Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:10 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI K4s Announcement > Bob, > > Where did you put the weight on the M1? The only space I found (and filled > with Pb) was behind the motor. > > regards, > > Andy Miller > > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bob Zoeller > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 1:00 PM > To: PRR-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K4s Announcement > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andy Miller" It > > sure would be nice if BLI or an after market maker(Greenway?) Would > > offer drivers with traction tires for the older BLI locos. The only > > problem > which > > must be considered is whether the increase in tractive effort would > > raise the current draw of the motor above the limit of the QSI receiver. > > Want a totally unproven answer?:-) When I asked, BLI at least verbally > suggested the article on adding about 9 ounces or so of lead to the M1b to > me. I couldn't find a space for more than 4 ounces (which helps > considerably by the way) but I would assume if you can add 9 ounces of lead > and not fry the receiver, a traction tire shouldn't harm it either. Another > unproven assumption I would make (while I am winging it): maybe the > receiver in the T1 and M1b has same limits as J1. I'll ask the question on > the QSI list. > > Bob Zoeller > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K7 Stock Car Pictures Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 00:37:05 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Well, it appears to have the general proportions of a K7A, BUT... I agree with you, Bruce. It looks like it will stand up to the hamhands at our club, like the old Athearns which looked just as clunky. Re the color, say it isn't so! Another Pennsy model in the wrong color. Also a 50 year throwback. However, in fairness it does look closer to the later, darker freight car color (as used by Bowser) than Tuscan which all those PRR models of 50 years ago had. Apologies in advance for being a henny penny---I hate that in others :-). Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: Fortunately, it appears that the K7A > has seperate grabs, even if they do look a bit odd on the pre-production > model. > > Issues I do see: > 1) Klunky hangers on the top of the door > 2) Oversize top and bottom door track > 3) Paint color!!!!! Looks way too brown in the photos (could be lighting) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K7 Stock Car Pictures Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 08:46:55 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Gents, We can only hope that since the stockcars have been=20 designed to have sound, THEN they came without sound. So,=20 the shell should be easy to remove from the chassis. If=20 that's the case, a repaint/decal is in order! The only=20 thing that would be a slight annoyance is cutting the=20 strips for dim data, and making it straight. -John "Bob Zoeller" wrote: Re the color, say it isn't so! Another Pennsy model in=20 the wrong color. Also a 50 year throwback. However, in fairness it does=20 look closer to the later, darker freight car color (as used by Bowser) than=20 Tuscan which all those PRR models of 50 years ago had. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 21:05:08 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR] BLI K7 Stock Car Pictures X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Color the wrong shade? Try an old trick. Use liquid masking to cover the majority of the lettering then over spray with a light coat of the correct color. I have mixed the paint, Floquil and Scalecoat, about 50/50 with thinner then fog the model with an air brush. If that doesn't suit your fancy then you can strip and repaint. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: [PRR] air brake instruction car 492443 Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 23:41:04 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.71, clamav-milter version 0.71 X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On the back cover and Page 120 of the PRR Color Guide to freight and Passenger Equipment Vol. 3 is air brake instruction car 492443. I have a few questions. Is this car a class P70, if so which subclass? The windows in the vestibule and different vestibule doors are throwing me off. The roof looks different also, doesn't have transverse clestory's (I don't know the correct term) near the ends. The picture was taken in 1952, does anyone know how long this car was used as an instruction car? Would instruction be given only at main shops, Enola, Norry, Renovo etc, or did the car travel to outlying terminals also. I assume it was attached to an appropriate passenger train heading to its next destination, however, later on some branches didn't have passenger series, Elmira, Rochester (NY), line to Wilkes Barre. Were there special handling instructions for hauling this car in freight trains? Well, I suppose that's more than a few questions. Thanks for any information. Brian J Carlson P.E. Cheektowaga NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI K7 Stock Car Pictures Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:33:53 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-reply-to: <000901c47d09$bd893500$6401a8c0@userrtilb5vp8t> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-index: AcR9CjVDJ5quRTrSQYy/otFFdi2veQBG12Qw Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hopefully BLI will correct the color before production. But if they don't it appears that rather than repaint, the easiest solution is to buy the GN cars, remove the "Great Northern" letterboards and decal the "PENNSYVANIA" and the keystone on. The filled slats for the keystone appear to cast into the body (much to the chagrin of non-PRR buyers no doubt). regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bob Zoeller Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 1:37 AM To: PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K7 Stock Car Pictures Well, it appears to have the general proportions of a K7A, BUT... I agree with you, Bruce. It looks like it will stand up to the hamhands at our club, like the old Athearns which looked just as clunky. Re the color, say it isn't so! Another Pennsy model in the wrong color. Also a 50 year throwback. However, in fairness it does look closer to the later, darker freight car color (as used by Bowser) than Tuscan which all those PRR models of 50 years ago had. Apologies in advance for being a henny penny---I hate that in others :-). Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: Fortunately, it appears that the K7A > has seperate grabs, even if they do look a bit odd on the > pre-production model. > > Issues I do see: > 1) Klunky hangers on the top of the door > 2) Oversize top and bottom door track > 3) Paint color!!!!! Looks way too brown in the photos (could be > lighting) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI K7 Stock Car Pictures Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:11:09 -0500 To: "Andy Miller" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Aug 9, 2004, at 10:33 AM, Andy Miller wrote: > Hopefully BLI will correct the color before production. But if they > don't > it appears that rather than repaint, the easiest solution is to buy > the GN > cars, remove the "Great Northern" letterboards and decal the > "PENNSYVANIA" > and the keystone on. The filled slats for the keystone appear to cast > into > the body (much to the chagrin of non-PRR buyers no doubt). Another option is use an overspray. Looking at the Broadway web site pictures, I would use an overspray of Poly Scale (or Floquil) Zinc Chromate to get an oranger look on the PRR cars. This will also fade the lettering, giving a nice overall "faded" look to the car which is a good place to start weathering. Interestingly, a nice FCC on the RC X29, when weathered with some darker colors as oversprays (tarnished black, railroad tie brown, rail brown) actually looks pretty close to the Bowser "brown". Of course, the lettering etc is ALSO weathered and lends credibility to the color as a "shift" from the original color as opposed to the stock Bowser paint job, which looks wrong, because it is has fresh lettering on aged paint. An overspray of true FCC can salvage some Bowser paint jobs very nicely, but those that have the incorrect lettering just need to be stripped and repainted. It just would be nice to start with the right base color ... Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 21:12:34 EDT Subject: [PRR] Historic EBT car returns to operation X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Historic Railroad Car Returns to Operation Friends of East Broad Top Complete Restoration Project The Friends of the East Broad Top, Inc. have completed the restoration of historic Caboose No. 28 of the East Broad Top Railroad & Coal Co. and the car will return to service on Saturday, August 14, 2004. Caboose No. 28 was built in 1920 for service on the East Broad Top Railroad, which operated a high-traffic, coal-hauling narrow-gauge main line from Mount Union to Woodvale in Huntingdon County, Pennsylvania. The car was originally assembled in the railroad's Rockhill Furnace shops. Eighty-four years later, the historic car was reconditioned in the same shops by volunteers from the Friends of the East Broad Top. The restoration, which involved almost 900 volunteer hours, began in December 2003 and included extensive metalwork and carpentry to prepare the car for regular operation while at the same time restoring it to its historic appearance. Before beginning the disassembly, the volunteers carefully documented the car with detailed measurements and hundreds of pictures, and then commissioned the creation of custom wood components matching the car's original specifications. "The East Broad Top is special both for its rich history and for the completeness and integrity of what survives to be seen today," said Dr. Lee Rainey, East Broad Top historian and leader of the volunteer caboose restoration project. "We are honored to have had the opportunity to work with the railroad and its owners, the Kovalchick family, to ensure that Caboose No. 28, an important part of Pennsylvania's industrial heritage, will be available for future generations to enjoy." Caboose No. 28 and other historic equipment dating to the 1880s can be viewed and ridden on the steam-powered, narrow-gauge tourist trains of the East Broad Top Railroad. The railroad operates on weekends from June through October. The car's return to service on August 14, 2004, coincides with the railroad's annual Community Appreciation Day. About the Organizations East Broad Top Railroad & Coal Co. Originally chartered in 1856, the East Broad Top began service as a three-foot-gauge common-carrier railroad in 1873. When it ended freight operations in1956, it was the last narrow-gauge railroad east of the Mississippi. Subsequently acquired by the Kovalchick Salvage Company of Indiana, PA, limited train operation resumed in 1960, and steam tourist service has continued in every year since that time. In addition to operating the oldest surviving piece of narrow-gauge trackage in the United States, the railroad's shop complex in Rockhill Furnace, PA, is widely recognized as one of the most significant historic industrial sites in North America. In 1964, the EBT became a U.S. National Historic Landmark. The railroad was named to Preservation Pennsylvania's "Pennsylvania at Risk" list in 1992 and the National Trust for Historic Preservation's list of most endangered historic sites in 1996. For additional information, visit www.ebtrr.com or contact: East Broad Top Railroad, P. O. Box 158, Rockhill Furnace PA 17249; (814) 447-3011 (telephone); (814) 447-3256 (fax). Friends of the East Broad Top, Inc. Friends of the East Broad Top was founded in 1983 to encourage historical research about and to support the preservation and restoration of the East Broad Top Railroad. Currently FEBT has approximately 900 members, who live throughout the US and in several foreign countries. FEBT operates a museum in Robertsdale, PA that has been open to the public since 1991. More information about the museum, FEBT's restoration program, membership, and events can be found at the organization's at www.febt.org. Friends of the East Broad Top, Inc. is not affiliated with the East Broad Top Railroad & Coal Co. For additional information, contact: Lee Rainey, (814) 235-8636. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: [PRR] B60b's and REA Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 21:51:26 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.71, clamav-milter version 0.71 X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On 2-15-1954 the lettering "RAILWAY EXPRESS AGENCY" was crossed off and no longer applied R50b's. Did REA lettering come of B60b's at this same date? Brian J Carlson P.E. Cheektowaga NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] For - Philadelphia Area Train Enthusiasts Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 08:52:50 -0400 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com On Thursday night Aug.19th, 2004 we are having Train Enthusiasts Night at The Morris Arboretum 6:00-8:00pm. This for all scales of trains. Do you think any of our members would like to display their models? We will provide tables, and if needed electric hook-up. For set-up you can arrive any time after 4:30 pm. Or if they just want to come and enjoy the evening with us that is just fine. Any question call Earl Snyder 215-848-1358. Train Enthusiasts Night at The Morris Arboretum Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 6:00-8:00pm. Come enjoy the 'G' scale trains with members of the Southeastern Pennsylvania Garden Railway Society and other train enthusiasts. We will also have Chelten Hills Model Railroad Club, Schuylkill Valley Model RR Club. We would like to make this a night when rail fans can learn about all facets of model railroading. A few of our artists friends will be present displaying their beautifully authentic railroad artwork. There will be various types of equipment demonstrations, including the installation of radio controls in the trains. The building of garden railways and ideas for creating their landscaping will also be available. This fun family event will be held rain or shine. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] BLI cars Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 21:45:00 +0000 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Don't know if this has beenn discussed earlier or not. From the Trains web page at Kalmbach: We just received word that Broadway Limited Imports will be producing HO scale models of General American 53'-6" wood express refrigerator cars with factory-installed grab irons and Kadee couplers in more than a dozen roadnames, and in multiple numbers. Look for complete details in tomorrow evening's News & Products update. Best wishes, Terry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] BLI cars Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 21:45:00 +0000 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Don't know if this has beenn discussed earlier or not. From the Trains web page at Kalmbach: We just received word that Broadway Limited Imports will be producing HO scale models of General American 53'-6" wood express refrigerator cars with factory-installed grab irons and Kadee couplers in more than a dozen roadnames, and in multiple numbers. Look for complete details in tomorrow evening's News & Products update. Best wishes, Terry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] HO and N B60b Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:07:34 -0400 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: PRR-Talk Digest - 08/10/04 Thread-Index: AcR+mJz9D+e4Lk45QgSUQ/CUQ++SawBVs0Ow From: "Drye, John" To: "PRR-Talk" Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com originally posted to PRR N Scale list: Had a chance to talk to Marty McGuirk of InterMountain at the N Scale = Convention in Chantilly this past weekend.=20 He had a sample of the HO B60b on display. Looked great.=20 I asked him if IM had considered doing it in N Scale. He said that they = hadn't planned on it, but had gotten so many questions at the show that = they were considering it. Marty asked if it was worth doing the correct = B60b truck N scale or should they do something "close enough" and = cheaper. I told him that Bowser seemed to do well with the correct PRR = trucks for both the H21s as well as the Cabin Cars. If you have an opinion, you can contact IM at: intermountain@intermountain-railway.com Not associated with IM in any way other than as a consumer (and B60b = customer) John Drye ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:03:07 -0400 From: Bert Decker Subject: [PRR] Circle Keystone Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com G'day all, Does anyone have a measured drawing of the circle keystone herald that was applied to PRR freight equipment that I could beg, borrow or (shudder) pay for? I want to make a full-size copy as wall decoration. TIA Bert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 23:30:37 EDT Subject: [PRR] Caboose-a-thon 04 Thursday eve X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Thursday 9:56 pm: Just 36 hours to the scheduled debut of EBT Caboose No. 28. The 900-hour project that began back in December is rapidly coming to an end. A second coat of red glistens on the platforms, thanks to Frank and Dave. Henry is installing the last tacks on the new seamless roof while Frank works to mount the metal sheathing of the cupola. Lee has completed lettering the numbers and heralds. Bob has repainted the end ladders after Frank welded on the repair parts, and now is scrubbing 84 years of dirt out of the interior of the caboose. Tomorrow Bob will welcome an FEBT relief crew that will mount the last few hardware pieces and do a final touch-up on paint. The caboose will be ready on time! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 21:48:07 -0400 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Test Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Test ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] NEC Corridor Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 20:43:38 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Gents and All, I had to travel yesterday from Baltimore to Philadelphia=20 and i must say that it being the fist time i've riden this=20 stretch that I had a great time. Getting on at penn=20 Satation in baltimore i found a seat in the last car at=20 the seat closest to the rear of the train. As it so=20 happened the conductor was at this end punching tickets. I=20 politely asked if he would mind me standing at the rear=20 door to observe the passing ROW. He had no objections and=20 i rode most of the hour trip watching out the rear door.=20 Not quite the Observation lounge of the 120, but still an=20 experience.=20 I was suprised at the number of brick/wood construction=20 towers that are still standing. One thing that I was sad to see while riding SEPTA north=20 from 30th street was that the B60b and REA car that used=20 to sit at the rear of the power plant in penn Coach have=20 disappeared. Would anybody know what happened to them? A little kindness can still go a long way in cooperating=20 with AMTRAK employees. Regards, John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] NEC Corridor Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 20:43:38 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Gents and All, I had to travel yesterday from Baltimore to Philadelphia=20 and i must say that it being the fist time i've riden this=20 stretch that I had a great time. Getting on at penn=20 Satation in baltimore i found a seat in the last car at=20 the seat closest to the rear of the train. As it so=20 happened the conductor was at this end punching tickets. I=20 politely asked if he would mind me standing at the rear=20 door to observe the passing ROW. He had no objections and=20 i rode most of the hour trip watching out the rear door.=20 Not quite the Observation lounge of the 120, but still an=20 experience.=20 I was suprised at the number of brick/wood construction=20 towers that are still standing. One thing that I was sad to see while riding SEPTA north=20 from 30th street was that the B60b and REA car that used=20 to sit at the rear of the power plant in penn Coach have=20 disappeared. Would anybody know what happened to them? A little kindness can still go a long way in cooperating=20 with AMTRAK employees. Regards, John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 09:55:40 GMT Subject: [PRR] Scale Lionel "O" 3R GG-1 4876 From: Mvbb1000@aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 08:45:47 EDT Subject: [PRR] 1910 Accident in Indiana X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hello, I was wondering if someone could help me with the this> My wifes ggrandfather was killed by accident in a train accident in Indiana, between Dublin and Cambridge City. In an newspaper article that I have received from Indiana it states that he was asleep in the caboose when # 84 a Pennsylvania fast live stock freight train crashed into the caboose and sent it telescoping. In any event I was wondering if it would be possible to find a picture of this accident and or the train? Also if someone could look at this article (I can email it to you) and exp[lain this accident. The article talks about rear of second sections and others it sounds like there may be more then 1 engine involved. Thank you, Mike Maristch ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Godby" Subject: [PRR] Steam engine bell markings Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 09:13:22 -0400 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Hello everyone, A recent off list discussion has come up about the markings on steam = engine bells. I have in my possession a marked bell. (Non PRR) Did the = PRR and other lines mark their bells?? I thought I had heard at one time = that the PRR did mark some. I wouldn`t think that this would be to common of a practice to do.=20 Anyone have any ideas or know something about bell markings from the = different builders?? Lima, Alco, etc. etc..... We are looking for any kind of information at all. Thanks in advance, Bill Godby ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 09:38:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Steam engine bell markings MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Bill, The PRR marked their bells either J.N or A.M.S. or not at all. Many had the loco numbers stamped into them as well, many did not. I once seen a PRR Bell marked with 6 different loco numbers. The only other Bell I seen marked other than those with casting or loco numbers were the EMD diesel Bells which actually had EMD cast into them Those would be the 12" Bells. What size is yours? Photo?....Gary. Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] SD-7 mystery photo Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 10:48:41 -0500 X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com PRR Listers: In Pennsy Diesel Years, Vol. 3, on the bottom of page 119, there is a = rare photo of the roof of SD-7 8589. There are 2 items mounted on top of = the short roof. The one on the right is a vent for the water tank used = of the rail cleaning jets when the engine was working the steep Madison = Hill. The one on the left appears to be a radio antenna. I thought that = these engines were originally delivered with firecracker-type antennae = however this may not be true. The SD-7's were delivered in October 1953 = so I do not know if firecracker antennas existed then. The question is: = what is this item on the left-side of the roof? I looks like a = firecracker antenna but it has cord that is folded over and laying on = the roof. I am postulating the this may be a firecracker type antenna = but with an long receiver to compensate for the very hilly terrain = adjacent to Madison and the Ohio River Valley. There is along photo of this mystery antenna at the top of page 653 of = Pennsylvania Railroad Diesel Locomotive Pictorial, Vol. 8. TIA!! Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana P.S.: What was the type of horn that was delivered to these units? Are = the horns provided in the P2K models accurate? Is there a HO scale horn = currently available that matches the PRR prototypes? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: abendschein@comcast.net Subject: [PRR] Stockyards and Colored Lights Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 16:02:39 +0000 From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Stockyards and Colored Lights Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 14:20:35 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com I remember the Lancaster Stockyards from the Pennsy convention that was held there several years ago. It was near the hotel, and of course, the tracks. It was behind a very good steak house. Fortunately, the steakhouse was upwind while we enjoyed a very good dinner. One afternoon we went over to the stockyards to photograph the place. Being a weekend, it was pretty inactive. However, during the photo session, a tractor trailer pulled in with a load of calves who were having intestinal problems Whew! Even getting upwind didn't help! No idea how people could stand to work in those places. Interesting to find an active, alive, and well stockyard in daily operation here in the east. I guess I thought virtually all meat came from the Midwest, and was slaughtered and packed near where the cattle were raised. But coming to think about it, there are some farms that raise beef cattle in the east. All transportation seems to be by truck now, however. Bill Bigler - 4915 Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII > Just catching up on two threads from last month: > > Lancaster Stockyards: > At one time the PRR owned the stockyards at Lancaster. Reportedly they were the largest ones east of Chicago. They were quite extensive with quarantine pens on the south side of the PRR Main. A tunnel underneath the tracks allowed animals to reach the main part of the stockyards on the north side. Reportedly one reason why the stockyards were so important was that they opened earlier than Chicago and so could be a trend setter with respect to price. > > Home Signals - Colored Lights > To the best of my knowledge and experience "Cola" never had colored lights in its PRR home signals in PRR, Conrail, or NS periods. > > Fred > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 13:32:35 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PRR Talk St. Louis Prototype Modelers Meet X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2 From: caples5@juno.com Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Anyone from this list going to this meet. I would like to meet other PRR fans at this show. See you there, John Caples ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 13:32:35 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PRR Talk St. Louis Prototype Modelers Meet X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2 From: caples5@juno.com Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Anyone from this list going to this meet. I would like to meet other PRR fans at this show. See you there, John Caples ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: RE: [PRR] Stockyards and Colored Lights Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 15:13:49 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 In-Reply-To: <000f01c482f4$ab870440$35d01842@stny.rr.com> Importance: Normal X-SLUIDL: 31948197-98E6484F-BC1CED1F-2B1EA514 Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com If my memory remembers sort of closely - the last of the owners pulled out last year. The area is slowly being demolished. Some of the pens where found to have various deficiencies and what not. There have been several ideas put forth for filling the space - leading currently is another strip mall. Cos Wayne S. Betty Cos Communications, Inc. Small business IT services. Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone "If we can not have what we like, we must learn to like what we have!" John Paul Jones -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of William Bigler Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 2:21 PM To: PRR Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] Stockyards and Colored Lights I remember the Lancaster Stockyards from the Pennsy convention that was held there several years ago. It was near the hotel, and of course, the tracks. It was behind a very good steak house. Fortunately, the steakhouse was upwind while we enjoyed a very good dinner. One afternoon we went over to the stockyards to photograph the place. Being a weekend, it was pretty inactive. However, during the photo session, a tractor trailer pulled in with a load of calves who were having intestinal problems Whew! Even getting upwind didn't help! No idea how people could stand to work in those places. Interesting to find an active, alive, and well stockyard in daily operation here in the east. I guess I thought virtually all meat came from the Midwest, and was slaughtered and packed near where the cattle were raised. But coming to think about it, there are some farms that raise beef cattle in the east. All transportation seems to be by truck now, however. Bill Bigler - 4915 Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII > Just catching up on two threads from last month: > > Lancaster Stockyards: > At one time the PRR owned the stockyards at Lancaster. Reportedly they were the largest ones east of Chicago. They were