RE: [PRR] Layout Room Paint

I did not intend my posting to be read as a slam against t= he train crew doing their job but rather as a personal note of frustration a= t being interrupted at a moment of prime interest. They are performing= their job protecting the passenger in the name of safety, plus protecting A= mtrak. You know drill, if a car runs into the side of train or du= cks through the crossing gates and is struck, it will be rep= orted that the train went several miles out of its way down a dirt road = ;to strike the car. In this case, if I had been hurt or killed, = it would have come out that Amtrak had failed to protect its passenger.

Moving trains have a tendency to kick up ballast and debri= s that have built-in radar for an open window or door, usually those with so= meone standing there. Also, there are clearances which will allow an e= xtended arm, with or without a camera, or a head to come into intimate conta= ct with flanged conveyances on the adjacent track or a relatively=20= rigid line side structure.

Just ruing the fact that I did not have the opportunity to= identify the vintage car(s).

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS 7487
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ 2003<= /DIV> -------------------------------1086902128-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 20:25:10 EDT Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Signals On the recent trip from Harrisburg through Pittsburgh, there were a few signals mounted on signal bridges that had the standard Pennsy position lights with a second signal below it. the lower signal was a vertical row of three white lights. In all cases the lower signal was lit with the signal above lit on the diagonal. Is this the same as yellow over clear? Thank you, Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 -------------------------------1086913509 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

On the recent trip from Harrisburg through Pittsburgh, there were= a few signals mounted on signal bridges that had the standard Pennsy positi= on lights with a second signal below it. the lower signal was a vertic= al row of three white lights. In all cases the lower signal was lit wit= h the signal above lit on the diagonal. Is this the same as yello= w over clear?

Thank you,

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS 7487
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ 2003<= /DIV> -------------------------------1086913509-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 21:07:04 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: "Snappers and Communications In both the steam and diesel era, the air gauge was the key to the pusher as to the headend's progress. Also, the crews knew when the train passed the point where the pushers effort were no longer needed. Steam engineers listened to how hard their loco was working to determine how hard to push. In the diesels and electrics, the ampere meter was watched to determine the amount of push. A common practice was for the brakeman to close the rear angle cock on the caboose then let the pusher cutoff. Have seen several photos of both Pennsy and Reading cabooses equipped with rods fitted to the angle cock to control the valve while the brakeman remained standing on the caboose's platform. On a ride on a Conrail pusher out of Altoona, the radio was used to start the train with the headend calling "train XX ready to start" and the pusher acknowledging with "this is train XX pusher coming up". The pusher started immediately upon getting the ready transmission. After that it was all air gauge and ampere meter until a call from the dispatcher to "ride it through". This had the pusher running through to Pittsburgh instead of returning to Altoona after the tunnels. Track capacity did not allow for the pushers to return solo; the pusher crew went dead on hours in Pitt returning the next day as extra engines on a scheduled freight. Never did ask them what rate they were making with the engines being under the control of another crew. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 -------------------------------1086916024 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

In both the steam and diesel era, the air gauge was the key to the push= er as to the headend's progress. Also, the crews knew when the train p= assed the point where the pushers effort were no longer needed. Steam=20= engineers listened to how hard their loco was working to determine how hard=20= to push. In the diesels and electrics, the ampere meter was watched to deter= mine the amount of push. A common practice was for the brakeman to clo= se the rear angle cock on the caboose then let the pusher cutoff. Have= seen several photos of both Pennsy and Reading cabooses equipped with rods=20= fitted to the angle cock to control the valve while the brakeman remained st= anding on the caboose's platform.

On a ride on a Conrail pusher out of Altoona, the radio was used= to start the train with the headend calling "train XX ready to start" and t= he pusher acknowledging with "this is train XX pusher coming up". The=20= pusher started immediately upon getting the ready transmission. After=20= that it was all air gauge and ampere meter until a call from the dispatcher=20= to "ride it through". This had the pusher running through to Pittsburg= h instead of returning to Altoona after the tunnels. Track capacity di= d not allow for the pushers to return solo; the pusher crew went dead=20= on hours in Pitt returning the next day as extra engines on a scheduled frei= ght. Never did ask them what rate they were making with the engines bei= ng under the control of another crew.

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS 7487
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ 2003<= /DIV> -------------------------------1086916024-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 20:21:47 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Signals From: Frederick Ripley Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 21:36:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Signals From: "E. Mike" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Signals Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 01:37:24 +0000 From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 21:40:56 -0400 Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Signals From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] BLI J1: VERY first impressions Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 21:13:36 -0500 A couple quick comments on the above. I will leave it to the detail = hounds to discuss rivets and piping, et al. 1. Good news. Produced in Korea, not China. I have been quite happy = with my M1b from China, but out of the box the T1 from Korea was = near-perfect and the J1 seems to be a good performer as well, with one = exception noted below. 2. Bad news. BLI is quite careful in the history of the loco to point = out the "clunk" of the steel bell versus the usual "clang" of brass, but = if anything, the bell sound is even higher frequency than the M1b unless = it is my imagination. 3. Jury out. My first impression under natural light was that the DGLE = was exceptionally dark (black) and a great improvement. However, under = strong bench artificial light I am not so sure. I may get a chance to = get to club tomorrow to compare to the M1b. 4. Only glitch: put it on the track. Set address 3 on my NCE. Nada. = On a hunch took tender shell off, loosened and reseated daughter board = on mother board, most of connectors. Voila! That is all she took. = Everything worked like a charm. Tomorrow or Saturday: compare DGLE and give it a load test. I note I have two sets of flanged drivers in the package. As best I can = see, only the middle drivers are unflanged. Am I missing something? = Why two spares? Though I have a brass J1, the mass of this loco still impresses me. I = recall a photo in an old Keystone of a J next to the N&W Y3 Pennsy owned = and remember how the J was so much bigger. Now to double head with the M1b! Bob Zoeller ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C44F2F.CB54B540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

A couple quick comments on the = above. I=20 will leave it to the detail hounds to discuss rivets and piping, et=20 al.

1. Good news. Produced in Korea, = not=20 China. I have been quite happy with my M1b from China, but out of = the box=20 the T1 from Korea was near-perfect and the J1 seems to be a good = performer as=20 well, with one exception noted below.

2. Bad news. BLI is quite careful = in the=20 history of the loco to point out the "clunk" of the steel bell versus = the usual=20 "clang" of brass, but if anything, the bell sound is even higher = frequency than=20 the M1b unless it is my imagination.

3. Jury out. My first = impression under=20 natural light was that the DGLE was exceptionally dark (black) and a = great=20 improvement. However, under strong bench artificial light I am not = so=20 sure. I may get a chance to get to club tomorrow to compare to the = M1b.

4. Only glitch: put it on the = track. =20 Set address 3 on my NCE. Nada. On a hunch took tender = shell=20 off, loosened and reseated daughter board on mother board, most of=20 connectors. Voila! That is all she took. Everything = worked=20 like a charm.

Tomorrow or Saturday: = compare DGLE and=20 give it a load test.

I note I have two sets of flanged = drivers in the=20 package. As best I can see, only the middle drivers are unflanged. = Am I=20 missing something? Why two spares?

Though I have a brass J1, the mass of = this loco=20 still impresses me. I recall a photo in an old Keystone of a J = next to the=20 N&W Y3 Pennsy owned and remember how the J was so much = bigger.

Now to double head with the = M1b!

Bob Zoeller

------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C44F2F.CB54B540-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:57:03 -0400 Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Signals MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Pure PRR PL signals remain on Amtrak's main between Paoli and Harrisburg. Still all amber and still have the "Stop & Proceed" aspect. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:27:52 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Signals From: Frederick Ripley Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 20:54:16 -0700 (PDT) From: MICHAEL MERCURE Subject: [PRR] BLI J-1 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 20:54:16 -0700 (PDT) From: MICHAEL MERCURE Subject: [PRR] BLI J-1 From: "E. Mike" Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Signals Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 05:17:21 +0000 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 01:51:24 EDT Subject: [PRR] Finished photos of Branchline 8-1-2 Hey Yuze Guys! Now that Al Buchan has published, I suppose it is Okay to let you all know that there are completed and in process photos of the upcoming Branchline 8-1-2 Pullman Sleeper in, the hot of the press, June issue of The Keystone Modeler. Here's a link... http://www.prrths.com/Keystone%20Modeler/Keystone_Modeler_N011.htm It was a tough secret to keep, but we managed. I can just say one word ... awesome! There are some fantastic close ups for your review. Bill's photography will speak for itself! Take a look... Then You might want to browse the photos of the models from the PRRT&HS National Convention in Cincy this past month... Greg Martin --part1_ea.50a883bc.2dfaa25c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Hey Yuze Guys!

Now that Al Buchan has published, I suppose it is Okay to let you all know t= hat there are completed and in process photos of the upcoming Branchline 8-1= -2 Pullman Sleeper in, the hot of the press, June issue of The Keystone Mode= ler. Here's a link...

http://www.prrths.com/Keystone%20Modeler/Keystone_Modeler_N011.htm

It was a tough secret to keep, but we managed. I can just say one word ... a= wesome! There are some fantastic close ups for your review. Bill's pho= tography will speak for itself!

Take a look...

Then You might want to browse the photos of the models from the PRRT&HS=20= National Convention in Cincy this past month...

Greg Martin --part1_ea.50a883bc.2dfaa25c_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 01:51:24 EDT Subject: [PRR] Finished photos of Branchline 8-1-2 Hey Yuze Guys! Now that Al Buchan has published, I suppose it is Okay to let you all know that there are completed and in process photos of the upcoming Branchline 8-1-2 Pullman Sleeper in, the hot of the press, June issue of The Keystone Modeler. Here's a link... http://www.prrths.com/Keystone%20Modeler/Keystone_Modeler_N011.htm It was a tough secret to keep, but we managed. I can just say one word ... awesome! There are some fantastic close ups for your review. Bill's photography will speak for itself! Take a look... Then You might want to browse the photos of the models from the PRRT&HS National Convention in Cincy this past month... Greg Martin --part1_ea.50a883bc.2dfaa25c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Hey Yuze Guys!

Now that Al Buchan has published, I suppose it is Okay to let you all know t= hat there are completed and in process photos of the upcoming Branchline 8-1= -2 Pullman Sleeper in, the hot of the press, June issue of The Keystone Mode= ler. Here's a link...

http://www.prrths.com/Keystone%20Modeler/Keystone_Modeler_N011.htm

It was a tough secret to keep, but we managed. I can just say one word ... a= wesome! There are some fantastic close ups for your review. Bill's pho= tography will speak for itself!

Take a look...

Then You might want to browse the photos of the models from the PRRT&HS=20= National Convention in Cincy this past month...

Greg Martin --part1_ea.50a883bc.2dfaa25c_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: Finished photos of Branchline 8-1-2 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:17:00 -0400 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:46:15 -0400 Subject: [PRR] TANGENT -- SPAM From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <171D4569-BBB6-11D8-8C75-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Dear subscribers: As many of you have noted off-list, this morning the dsop.com lists were hit with their first SPAM. The SPAM got through to the list from the mail server because the spoofed address was a valid address (listmaster@dsop.com -- me!). However, the mail server should not have accepted it in the first place. In looking at the "engineering" of the SPAM, and subsequently searching online, I have discovered that this is a pretty new technique (which I won't elaborate on) and discussion on how to thwart it started only yesterday. So I guess my site is on the "leading edge" of what's new!!! We (myself and other sites) think we know how we can plug this hole, and changes on the server will occur throughout the day. You may or may not notice anything going on. Hopefully everything will be transparent. I will report back to you on any changes that "might" affect your use of the system. I will also delete the SPAM from the searchable archive. ---------------------------------------- Listmaster Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:10:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: [PRR] EMD B units lift rings Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:10:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: [PRR] EMD B units lift rings From: "Fred Rea" Subject: [PRR] G32/G32A gons Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:02:15 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: > SUBJECT: Photos of in service G32/G32A gondolas > > All: > > Can anyone tell me of where I can find "in service" photos of shadow or > plain keystone G32 or G32A gondolas (not the later B&C rebuilds)? Books or > even the photo sellers (who and car number would be a big help) would be > fine. I already have some builders photos here, but would still like some > later shots. > > E-mail me directly at Garrett.Rea@att.net > > Thanks- > > Garrett Rea > Nashville, TN > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gatwood, Elden -- Tt, Inc." Subject: [PRR] RE: [STMFC] Finished photos of Branchline 8-1-2 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:32:49 -0700 From: newrail@sover.net [mailto:newrail@sover.net] Subject: Re: [STMFC] Finished photos of Branchline 8-1-2

Don;

Greg is not the guilty = one....

Elden

-----Original = Message-----
From: newrail@sover.net [mailto:newrail@sover.net]
Sent: Friday, June 11, = 2004 5:29 AM
To: = tgregmrtn@aol.com
Cc: PassengerCarList@yahoogroups.com; STMFC@yahoogroups.com; prr-modeling@yahoogroups.com; prr-talk@dsop.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] = Finished photos of Branchline 8-1-2

Quoting = tgregmrtn@aol.com:

> Hey Yuze Guys!
>
> Now that Al Buchan has published, I = suppose it is Okay to let you all
> know
> that there are completed and in = process photos of the upcoming
> Branchline 8-1-2
> Pullman Sleeper in, the hot of the = press, June issue of The Keystone
> Modeler.
> Here's a link...
>
> http://www.prrths.com/Keystone%20Modeler/Keystone_Modeler_N011.htm

My Lord, Greg! How to = ruin a perfectly lovely Alco RS-11. First you
clutter it up with all that unnecessary = crap all over the roof and then
you paint it Pennsy!!!! Shame on = you! <VBG>

Don Valentine

Yahoo! Groups = Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT<= br>

Yahoo! Groups Links

=B7 To visit your = group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/gr= oup/STMFC/

=B7 To unsubscribe = from this group, send an email to:
= STMFC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

=B7 Your use of Yahoo! = Groups is subject to the Yahoo! = Terms of Service.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C44FE2.6B71AB52-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] "Coal Goes To War" Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 19:08:47 +0000 John Frantz asked: "Does anybody make this decal in HO?" C-D-S No. 240, PRR Class GLCA "Coal Goes to War" c. 1942. Also available in other scales. "On these same lines, what classes were covered besides the H21? I was looking at doing a post-war fleet that where some had this painted out and others didn't." The photo that Bruce cited of GLCA 250391 c. October 1942 is in the Hagley collection and was published in the Winter 1991 Keystone. I suspect that Class H31 also received this slogan (built March-June 1942), but haven't seen any photos to support this. Conventional wisdom is cars shopped during WWII received this slogan (or "BUY WAR BONDS") and that there was no specific plan to systematically add them to entire classes. Other roads did paint this slogan on their hopper cars, but the format varied. Interstate did paint a taller version of the Pennsy "Coal Goes to War" slogan on some of their hoppers - Accurail did a special run of these cars in the early 1990s. The slogan on the Montour cars was very flashy. It took up three panels on the right of the car side and was about half as tall as the car. The format was a bold "COAL" above a underlined script "Goes to War". A picture of M 17394 at the Champion Prep Plant c. 1945 with this slogan is on page 138 of Gene Schaffer's "Montour RR". Ben Hom --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_10811_1086980927_0 Content-Type: text/html

John Frantz asked:

"Does anybody make this decal in HO?"

C-D-S No. 240, PRR Class GLCA "Coal Goes to War" c. 1942. Also available in other scales.

"On these same lines, what classes were covered besides the H21? I was looking at doing a post-war fleet that where some had this painted out and others didn't."

The photo that Bruce cited of GLCA 250391 c. October 1942 is in the Hagley collection and was published in the Winter 1991 Keystone. I suspect that Class H31 also received this slogan (built March-June 1942), but haven't seen any photos to support this. Conventional wisdom is cars shopped during WWII received this slogan (or "BUY WAR BONDS") and that there was no specific plan to systematically add them to entire classes.

Other roads did paint this slogan on their hopper cars, but the format varied. Interstate did paint a taller version of the Pennsy "Coal Goes to War" slogan on some of their hoppers - Accurail did a special run of these cars in the early 1990s. The slogan on the Montour cars was very flashy. It took up three panels on the right of the car side and was about half as tall as the car. The format was a bold "COAL" above a underlined script "Goes to War". A picture of M 17394 at the Champion Prep Plant c. 1945 with this slogan is on page 138 of Gene Schaffer's "Montour RR".

Ben Hom

--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_10811_1086980927_0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Philadelphia Hotel Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:21:52 -0400 Philadelphia Hotel

Listers,

Going to Philly for the weekend, Since Drexel = is having its graduation hotels are hard to come by. Got a line = on The Conwell Inn 1331 West Berks Street Philadelphia. According to = the website it says No. Philadelphia. I know that No Philly is = not a great place to be. However is this in THAT part of No. = Philly. It says it's near the Liacouras Center at Temple = University? Is this anywhere near ZOO tower? Otherwise does = anyone know some good B&B's?

Thanks

Chris Chany

------_=_NextPart_001_01C44FE9.59949320-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Philadelphia Hotel Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:21:52 -0400 Philadelphia Hotel

Listers,

Thanks

Chris Chany

------_=_NextPart_001_01C44FE9.59949320-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:09:12 -0400 Subject: [PRR] J1 question MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, Can someone, either a consumer or dealer, confirm this question regarding the BLI J1's. I just need a second source to confirm. BLI lists an "unlettered" J1. What does this mean exactly? When they released the M1a/b's they also listed an "unlettered" version but that only meant no cab number or number in the Keystone Plate on the boiler. The Tender WAS lettered. I inquired about an "unlettered" J1 on an eBay auction and the seller said the J1 lacks lettering completely. Is this true? no PENNSYLVANIA spelled out on the tender? If true, why couldn't they do it the same way as the M1's and include everything but the cab and Keystone numbers. Looks like no "unlettered" J's for me. I will start with a numbered version and renumber the cab, Keystone and Headlight to get what I need.......Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:19:16 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Re: J1 Question MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, Whoops, you can disregard my previous question regarding the J1, I think. Did I confuse the "un-numbered" T1 with the "unlettered" M1a/b? My "unlettered" M1b was quickly modifed and I can't remember if it had the Pennsylvania on the tender or not. Anyone remember? My main point was/is that BLI should have offered the J1 as an unnumbered loco, not an unlettered loco, if that is actually the case and it is according to the eBay seller. It is very difficult to completely hide decal film on a welded tender. Factory printed lettering would be much more pleasing....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:19:16 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Re: J1 Question MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, Whoops, you can disregard my previous question regarding the J1, I think. Did I confuse the "un-numbered" T1 with the "unlettered" M1a/b? My "unlettered" M1b was quickly modifed and I can't remember if it had the Pennsylvania on the tender or not. Anyone remember? My main point was/is that BLI should have offered the J1 as an unnumbered loco, not an unlettered loco, if that is actually the case and it is according to the eBay seller. It is very difficult to completely hide decal film on a welded tender. Factory printed lettering would be much more pleasing....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: J1 Question Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:18:40 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gary: As I remember, the M1a and M1b "unlettered" came without the rr name on the tender. I ordered my engines "lettered", but Jeff Warner ordered un-numbered and has to put the PENNSYLVANIA on the tenders himself. I thought this to be a big mistake by BLI. Don't know what they were thinking as I don't know of too many other prototype roads that had these engines. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" To: Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 4:19 PM Subject: [PRR] Re: J1 Question > List, > > Whoops, you can disregard my previous question regarding the J1, I > think. Did I confuse the "un-numbered" T1 with the "unlettered" M1a/b? > My "unlettered" M1b was quickly modifed and I can't remember if it had > the Pennsylvania on the tender or not. Anyone remember? My main point > was/is that BLI should have offered the J1 as an unnumbered loco, not an > unlettered loco, if that is actually the case and it is according to the > eBay seller. It is very difficult to completely hide decal film on a > welded tender. Factory printed lettering would be much more > pleasing....Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work! > > PRR K4s Loco Pics: > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ > > PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > > and...... > > PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <4C4E4085-BBF4-11D8-A1B7-000A95C04372@dsop.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk , Conrail-talk , Reading-talk From: Listmaster Subject: [PRR] TANGENT - Server Changes Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 18:11:33 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In light of this morning's SPAM, I have effected some new policies on both my firewall and my mail server. Mail and list traffic is currently getting through, but I can't account for all possibilities of flavors of e-mail clients. There could be a small minority who experience side effects. If you do, and you cannot get an e-mail through to this address to report it, you can call Desktop Solutions at 717-938-4270. I will not be returning the calls, but will act upon any information passed. I will try to maintain normal access for all users, but I cannot guarantee it. Thank you. ---------------------------------------- Listmaster listmaster@dsop.com Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: J1 Question Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 18:31:26 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Guys, if I were BLI, I would leave the Pennsy off the painted undec loco. There will be plenty of customers who will buy this cool loco and put another road name on or their own. Ask me how I know. First request I had for the distinctive Sante Fe 4-8-4 was for an undec so a guy could letter for the Soo Line. I had at least one guy considering a T1 with the club logo on it :-). Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Reynolds" To: "Gary Mittner" ; Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 4:18 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: J1 Question > Gary: > > As I remember, the M1a and M1b "unlettered" came without the rr name on the > tender. I ordered my engines "lettered", but Jeff Warner ordered > un-numbered and has to put the PENNSYLVANIA on the tenders himself. > > I thought this to be a big mistake by BLI. Don't know what they were > thinking as I don't know of too many other prototype roads that had these > engines. > > Larry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary Mittner" > To: > Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 4:19 PM > Subject: [PRR] Re: J1 Question > > > > List, > > > > Whoops, you can disregard my previous question regarding the J1, I > > think. Did I confuse the "un-numbered" T1 with the "unlettered" M1a/b? > > My "unlettered" M1b was quickly modifed and I can't remember if it had > > the Pennsylvania on the tender or not. Anyone remember? My main point > > was/is that BLI should have offered the J1 as an unnumbered loco, not an > > unlettered loco, if that is actually the case and it is according to the > > eBay seller. It is very difficult to completely hide decal film on a > > welded tender. Factory printed lettering would be much more > > pleasing....Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > > Work! > > > > PRR K4s Loco Pics: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ > > > > PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > > > > and...... > > > > PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] BLI J-1...some good and bad news.... Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 22:45:29 +0000 From: "DON MURPHY" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: J1 Question Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 20:18:49 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <001001c44ff9$ab6ee8c0$52e3accf@Office> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out011.verizon.net from [4.10.188.41] at Fri, 11 Jun 2004 19:18:52 -0500 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I got an unlettered M1a and a lettered one. The unlettered was completely painted. After applying Microscale decals I wished both of them had been unlettered. As good as the BLI lettering is, Microscale is noticeably sharper with a better overall look. Don Murphy -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Larry Reynolds Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 5:19 PM To: Gary Mittner; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: J1 Question Gary: As I remember, the M1a and M1b "unlettered" came without the rr name on the tender. I ordered my engines "lettered", but Jeff Warner ordered un-numbered and has to put the PENNSYLVANIA on the tenders himself. I thought this to be a big mistake by BLI. Don't know what they were thinking as I don't know of too many other prototype roads that had these engines. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" To: Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 4:19 PM Subject: [PRR] Re: J1 Question > List, > > Whoops, you can disregard my previous question regarding the J1, I > think. Did I confuse the "un-numbered" T1 with the "unlettered" M1a/b? > My "unlettered" M1b was quickly modifed and I can't remember if it had > the Pennsylvania on the tender or not. Anyone remember? My main point > was/is that BLI should have offered the J1 as an unnumbered loco, not an > unlettered loco, if that is actually the case and it is according to the > eBay seller. It is very difficult to completely hide decal film on a > welded tender. Factory printed lettering would be much more > pleasing....Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work! > > PRR K4s Loco Pics: > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ > > PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > > and...... > > PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 20:34:59 -0400 Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: J1 Question MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Don, What Micro Scale decal set did you use on your M1's? I like Micro Scale stuff as they have a thinner film than most others. But I don't recall a set for PRR Steam Freight. Unless they released something new I am unaware about the only "Steam" set they make is the Gold Leaf for Steam Passenger Locos. On my M1b seen in the TKM article of several issues ago, I used the Champ "Long Distance" Steam set. .....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "DON MURPHY" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: J1 Question Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 20:46:30 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <24524-40CA4FB3-1887@storefull-3113.bay.webtv.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out003.verizon.net from [4.10.188.41] at Fri, 11 Jun 2004 19:46:33 -0500 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gary, I used 87-66 which is probably the set you refer to. The long tender roadname is the same length as BLI's. Under workbench lighting the color is a "tad" less yellow that the stock lettering. Under layout lighting I can't see the difference. They are not at all like the Champ gold leaf decal. These observations are after the decals are applied and given a flat ModelMaster overcoat. The size of the lettering is identical to the BLI but sharper and a little less "fat." Tomorrow as time permits I'll shoot a few images and send them along. Don -----Original Message----- From: Gary Mittner [mailto:mittner@webtv.net] Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 8:35 PM To: DON MURPHY Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: J1 Question Hi Don, What Micro Scale decal set did you use on your M1's? I like Micro Scale stuff as they have a thinner film than most others. But I don't recall a set for PRR Steam Freight. Unless they released something new I am unaware about the only "Steam" set they make is the Gold Leaf for Steam Passenger Locos. On my M1b seen in the TKM article of several issues ago, I used the Champ "Long Distance" Steam set. .....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:30:38 -0400 From: Joe Witcofsky Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Signals From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Signals From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Signals

Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:30:38 -0400 From: Joe Witcofsky Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR (?) Hvywt Observation From: RDG2124@aol.com [mailto:RDG2124@aol.com] Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR (?) Hvywt Observation From: RDG2124@aol.com [mailto:RDG2124@aol.com] Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR (?) Hvywt From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 23:20:51 EDT Subject: [PRR] about PRR-Talk Digest In a message dated 6/10/04 3:06:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Digest and format > From: "Harry Fitch" > Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:35:14 -0400 > > To the list at large: > > I enjoy getting the digest version of PRR talk. > It's more often than not the best E-mail I get all day. > However it is getting harder to view because of > the numerous amount of text formatting goop that > comes in every message. > > The E-mail program I use does allow me to select plain text as the default > format > for messages I send to PRR-Talk@dsop.com. I can still send HTML format > messages > to other addresses. > > Is it possible that more list members that do have the option to post their > messages in plain text > could exercise that option for this list? I believe it would make reading > the posts more enjoyable. > > Best Regards to All, > > Harry > Harry, It sure would -- I hate that crap with a purple passion. Unfortunately, my ISP is AOL, and every message I send to PRR-Talk is accompanied by a repeat with HTML? garbage. It turns out the workaround is just too much trouble on my computer for everyday conversation. Thus, I am part of the problem, not part of the solution. My apologies... PS - has anybody figured out why some digests arrive with a green background, and some with a blue? Whatever color, I find turning it off improves readability. Still and all, I love the digest mode of delivery -- I may be late to the party because I only download once a day, but I get to read complete discourses, and often the answer arrives at the same time as its question. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_128.43cddfec.2dfbd093_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 6/10/04 3:06:12=20= PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:

Subject: Digest and format
From: "Harry Fitch" <prrk4s@msn.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:35:14 -0400

To the list at large:

I enjoy getting the digest version of PRR talk.
It's more often than not the best E-mail I get all day.
However it is getting harder to view because of
the numerous amount of text formatting goop that
comes in every message.

The E-mail program I use does allow me to select plain text as the default format
for messages I send to PRR-Talk@dsop.com. I can still send HTML format=
messages
to other addresses.

Is it possible that more list members that do have the option to post their<= BR> messages in plain text
could exercise that option for this list? I believe it would make reading the posts more enjoyable.

Best Regards to All,

Harry

Harry,

It sure would -- I hate that crap with a purple passion. Unfortunately= , my ISP is AOL, and every message I send to PRR-Talk is accompanied by a re= peat with HTML? garbage. It turns out the workaround is just too much=20= trouble on my computer for everyday conversation. Thus, I am part of t= he problem, not part of the solution. My apologies...

PS - has anybody figured out why some digests arrive with a green background= , and some with a blue? Whatever color, I find turning it off improves= readability.

Still and all, I love the digest mode of delivery -- I may be late to the pa= rty because I only download once a day, but I get to read complete discourse= s, and often the answer arrives at the same time as its question.

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_128.43cddfec.2dfbd093_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] PRR Watches Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 06:53:00 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, My friend Kent Singer is mentioned on the inside front cover in the = current issue of the Keystone. The poster reprinted on the back cover referencing the dangers of magnetism of your = pocket watch. When I advised Kent that he was mentioned in the he replied with the following. Thanks for the note about the poster and mention in the PRR T&HS = Keystone, I didn't really know about it, although I was aware that the artist who created the poster for the article was = sending it elsewhere. I co-authored the article (actually a column) with a friend. We've got a regular column = in the watch & clock collector's magazine. In fact, the piece about the magnetism scare of the late 1880's was a = two-parter, split over two issues. As much as I was an expert on what you used to call "stick kits" and S Scale = history, I'm one of the top ten experts in the country on railroad watches. Since you're a flamin' Pennsy freak, I've attached a picture of a watch http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/PRR_Watch.jpg that the = PRR bought in the 1860's for its engineers to use. Before you start thinking of getting one, in 40+ years of studying = railroad watches, this is the only one I've seen. The rules at that time (starting in 1849) on the PRR were: "Each engineer will be furnished with a watch which shall be regulated = by the Station Agent at the commencement of each trip and must be deposited with him when the engine returns. If = not returned in as good order as it was received, the Engineer must pay the expense of repairs." Conductors furnished their own watches. I did not see anything that identified the poster as PRR. Kent is a = great person, an accomplished modeler, but is a NYC fan. HIISSSSssssss................ Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass S Scale X29 http://www.pennsysmodels.com Production models of the REA Version arriving July 1st Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 12:08:15 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "sjlash" Subject: [PRR] PRR steam decals microscale Hi Guys, While looking at the Microscale catalog, it showed two differe= nt sheets. The 87-66 and 87 1166. Could someone clarify which would be = used on freight and passenger and the approx dates. I have three unltr'd= and unnumbr'd locos I need to do. Thanks Jim --------------Boundary-00=_R5E7G6G0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi Guys, While looking at the Mi= croscale catalog, it showed two different sheets. The 87-66 and 87 = 1166. Could someone clarify which would be used on freight and pass= enger and the approx dates. I have three unltr'd and unnumbr'd loco= s I need to do. Thanks Jim

--------------Boundary-00=_R5E7G6G0000000000000-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 12:08:15 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "sjlash" Subject: [PRR] PRR steam decals microscale Hi Guys, While looking at the Microscale catalog, it showed two differe= nt sheets. The 87-66 and 87 1166. Could someone clarify which would be = used on freight and passenger and the approx dates. I have three unltr'd= and unnumbr'd locos I need to do. Thanks Jim --------------Boundary-00=_R5E7G6G0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1"

--------------Boundary-00=_R5E7G6G0000000000000-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR steam decals microscale Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 14:23:45 -0400 Jim, The No.. 66 set (I'm in N scale, so it's 60-66) is for older steam power = as everything is in imitation gold leaf The new set No. 1166 provides = for buff lettering as was used on freight power after 1943 I had used = the PRR Hood Units decals for newer steam myself in N scale. BTW, I know there was another reply, but it is in MIME format, and = mail2web cannot read that, so it was deleted here. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: sjlash=20 To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 12:08 PM Subject: [PRR] PRR steam decals microscale Hi Guys, While looking at the Microscale catalog, it showed = two different sheets. The 87-66 and 87 1166. Could someone clarify = which would be used on freight and passenger and the approx dates. I = have three unltr'd and unnumbr'd locos I need to do. Thanks Jim=20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_01E2_01C45088.DE8BE160 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Jim,

The No.. 66 set (I'm in N scale, so it's 60-66) is = for older=20 steam power as everything is in imitation gold leaf The new set No. 1166 = provides for buff lettering as was used on freight power after 1943 I = had =20 used the PRR Hood Units decals for newer steam myself in N = scale.

BTW, I know there was another reply, but it is in = MIME format,=20 and mail2web cannot read that, so it was deleted here.

Gregg Mahlkov

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 sjlash

To: prr-talk@dsop.com

Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 = 12:08=20 PM

Subject: [PRR] PRR steam decals = microscale

Hi Guys, While looking at the = Microscale=20 catalog, it showed two different sheets. The 87-66 and 87=20 1166. Could someone clarify which would be used on freight = and=20 passenger and the approx dates. I have three unltr'd and = unnumbr'd=20 locos I need to do. Thanks Jim

------=_NextPart_000_01E2_01C45088.DE8BE160-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: [PRR] Freight Train Timetables Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 22:38:25 +0000 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Greetings All. I am trying to put together a freight schedule for my Altoona model railroad. I have a few questions I'm hoping you experienced folks can help with. Here's the first: I know coal traffic east was huge through Altoona. As best as I understand. Eastbound coal tied up a number of tracks in many 1950s photo's I've seen. Yet in the freight schedules I've seen, there are no coal trains listed inbound to Altoona. In the 1959 schedule, a number of trains head out to Southport and Baltimore, but none inbound except a couple listed as "fill out". Thanks in advance. Ron Weinland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] PRR HO S1 in Brass??? Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:47:03 -0400 Group, Can anyone tell me who produced these and how many they made? Any = comments on if they were good or bad vs prototype would be = appreciated... Sam V ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C44FBA.93A0B230 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Group,

Can anyone tell me who produced these = and how many=20 they made? Any comments on if they were good or bad vs prototype would = be=20 appreciated...

Sam V

------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C44FBA.93A0B230-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] PRR HO S1 in Brass??? Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:47:03 -0400 Group, Can anyone tell me who produced these and how many they made? Any = comments on if they were good or bad vs prototype would be = appreciated... Sam V ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C44FBA.93A0B230 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Group,

Can anyone tell me who produced these = and how many=20 they made? Any comments on if they were good or bad vs prototype would = be=20 appreciated...

Sam V

------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C44FBA.93A0B230-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AUDIOWIZARD1@aol.com Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 23:06:10 EDT Subject: [PRR] Train Phone Hi all Did they use Train Phone's on the delmarva division? Thanks Gene Proud -------------------------------1087095970 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

Hi all

Did they use Train Phone's on the delmarva division?

Thanks

Gene Proud

-------------------------------1087095970-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: [PRR] Web photograph F1 Mogul (Fireman's side) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 16:02:41 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Lists, Does anyone know where on the web I can find a decent photo the fireman's side of a PRR F1 or F1c Mogul that I can print out. There is a decent one in "Pennsy Power", but I would like one to use on my workbench to modify an MDC Mogul to an approximation of a PRR F1c. I found a good shot of the engineer's side at northeast.railfan.net/PRR_steam but the fireman's side is too small to see when printed! TIA Gregg Mahlkov ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: [PRR] BLI J1 Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 16:17:50 -0400 Group: I picked up two BLI J-1's today and must report that these, IMHO, are = very well done and beautiful locomotives. They run well, sound good and = pull like a champ. =20 The only down side that I've noticed is the exhaust sync. Bad, in my = opinion. The timing of the wheels is such that the wheels run well = ahead of the exhaust cadence. This is, however, better that the exhaust = running ahead of the wheel speed. I've compared this to the sync of the = BLI M-1's and notice that these are much better. Does anyone know of a way to adjust this? I've tried start voltage, = speed tables, etcetera, but nothing changes the poor sync. BTW, these babies have a true working coupler on the pilot. Great for = double heading. The double heading of these engines is not only great = from an esthetic viewpoint, it tends to block out the poor exhaust sync = from your senses. Regards, Larry Reynolds ------=_NextPart_000_0077_01C45161.F8F4D910 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Group:

I picked up two BLI J-1's today and = must report=20 that these, IMHO, are very well done and beautiful = locomotives. They=20 run well, sound good and pull like a champ.

The only down side that I've noticed is = the exhaust=20 sync. Bad, in my opinion. The timing of the wheels is such = that the=20 wheels run well ahead of the exhaust cadence. This is,=20 however, better that the exhaust running ahead of the wheel = speed. =20 I've compared this to the sync of the BLI M-1's and notice=20 that these are much better.

Does anyone know of a way to adjust = this? =20 I've tried start voltage, speed tables, etcetera, but nothing changes = the=20 poor sync.

BTW, these babies have a true working = coupler on=20 the pilot. Great for double heading. The double heading of = these=20 engines is not only great from an esthetic viewpoint, it tends to block = out the=20 poor exhaust sync from your senses.

Regards,

Larry = Reynolds

------=_NextPart_000_0077_01C45161.F8F4D910-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J1 Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 17:38:19 -0500 I agree with the positive of a working front coupler. Also note that = they have three holes in the drawbar for tender spacing. It may be a = function of the tender style, but at no position is there any possible = chance of a shorting that I can see---that could be a problem on other = locos. Downside is that for whatever reason, in a tractor pull, mine would lose = out to a Bachmann K4. It slips with almost no load at all on a 0.5% = grade on a 40 inch radius superelevated curve, slips through the next = stretch of complicated trackwork on a flat and then slips on a 1.5% = straight grade with anything more than 5 cars. Before adding weight = (which I did to my M1b, but not my T1), I decided to try the traction = tire. Unfortunately, I put it in the rear driver position and got not = much better results. I will see if putting it in the front, sprung = driver position will work but first I have to solve the gear stripping = or valve gear lockup that resulted from my "workmanship" when I did = this. I had to put it aside for other things this weekend and will = spend some bench time on it Monday. I am wondering (will ask BLI) if there is something wrong in the = equalization that can be corrected. Re the synchronization, I doubleheaded mine with my M1b. Shouldn't the = two engines with nearly the same driver diameter have the same chuff = rate, albeit out of synch, or am I missing something? I too noticed a = different rate with the J.=20 Following up on a previous post of mine, the DGLE color on the J is = about the same as the M1b. OK with me under clubroom lighting and in = view of the fact that they will eventually be weathered.=20 Only other complaint is there are no directions for changing out the = drivers. I used mine from the M1b. I seem to more predictable results using the doppler effect on the = whistle with the J than with the M1b. Both sound good. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Larry Reynolds=20 I picked up two BLI J-1's today and must report that these, IMHO, are = very well done and beautiful locomotives. They run well, sound good and = pull like a champ. =20 The only down side that I've noticed is the exhaust sync. Bad, in my = opinion. The timing of the wheels is such that the wheels run well = ahead of the exhaust cadence. This is, however, better that the exhaust = running ahead of the wheel speed. I've compared this to the sync of the = BLI M-1's and notice that these are much better. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C4516D.376C8340 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

I agree with the positive of a working = front=20 coupler. Also note that they have three holes in the drawbar = for=20 tender spacing. It may be a function of the tender style, but at = no=20 position is there any possible chance of a shorting that I can = see---that could=20 be a problem on other locos.

Downside is that for whatever reason, = in a tractor=20 pull, mine would lose out to a Bachmann K4. It slips with almost = no load=20 at all on a 0.5% grade on a 40 inch radius superelevated curve, slips = through=20 the next stretch of complicated trackwork on a flat and then slips on a = 1.5%=20 straight grade with anything more than 5 cars. Before adding = weight (which=20 I did to my M1b, but not my T1), I decided to try the traction = tire. =20 Unfortunately, I put it in the rear driver position and got = not much=20 better results. I will see if putting it in the front, sprung = driver=20 position will work but first I have to solve the gear stripping or = valve=20 gear lockup that resulted from my "workmanship" when I did this. I = had to=20 put it aside for other things this weekend and will spend some bench = time on it=20 Monday.

I am wondering (will ask BLI) if there = is something=20 wrong in the equalization that can be corrected.

Re the synchronization, I doubleheaded = mine with my=20 M1b. Shouldn't the two engines with nearly the same driver = diameter have=20 the same chuff rate, albeit out of synch, or am I missing=20 something? I too noticed a different rate with the = J.

Following up on a previous post of = mine, the DGLE=20 color on the J is about the same as the M1b. OK with me under = clubroom=20 lighting and in view of the fact that they will eventually be weathered. =

Only other complaint is there are no = directions for=20 changing out the drivers. I used mine from the M1b.

I seem to more predictable = results using the=20 doppler effect on the whistle with the J than with the M1b. Both = sound=20 good.

Bob Zoeller

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 Larry = Reynolds=20

I picked up two BLI J-1's today and = must report=20 that these, IMHO, are very well done and beautiful = locomotives. =20 They run well, sound good and pull like a champ. =

The only down side that I've noticed = is the=20 exhaust sync. Bad, in my opinion. The timing of the wheels = is such=20 that the wheels run well ahead of the exhaust cadence. This is,=20 however, better that the exhaust running ahead of the wheel = speed. =20 I've compared this to the sync of the BLI M-1's and notice=20 that these are much=20 better.

------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C4516D.376C8340-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:58:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J1 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bob, Prelimanary reports from a BLI J1 owner I know may be the reason your J1 is acting the way it is as well. John placed his J1 on a glass surface and noticed the 4th and 5th drivers were not touching the the surface. Not sure if this is limited to his J1 or a design flaw. He overcome this by adding shims above the bearings to lower the axle to the railhead. All drivers touch the rails now. He will put it to a layout test sometime in the near future. He will at that time test with the traction tire as well. I am gathering the pluses and minuses on this loco for a review in a future TKM. So far the Pluses are winning (G). But the minuses are showing up as well. I will receive my J this week and I can compare mine with the known problems as of now. But, the overall opinion so far is BLI hit the target. May not be a Bullseye but close enough for most modelers.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Rea" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J1 Exhaust sync Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 21:32:52 -0400 I have been double heading my J1 with my M1. I was hoping to get slow = drift into and out of sync with each other. This would be due to the = slight difference in driver diam (70" and 72" I think). But they same = to be about the same. Now this raises a question. Since there is no = cam, the chuff rate must be set by voltage from voltage. Now this could = be track voltage or the motor back EMF voltage. The latter would more = exactly follow the speed of each loco. Back EMF can be deduced by = subtracting an estimate of the armature IR drop from the track voltage. = But, for all this to be able to capture the subtle differences in driver = diameter, some careful adjustment would be required. I suspect, = however, I am getting almost the same cuff per volt on each loco. Any = comments from others re this? Fred Rea PS Please don't banish me to an EE list before I get a reply. Or, does = all this belong in the world of patent litigation? I hope that conflict = is only re using back EMF for speed contol. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Larry Reynolds=20 To: PRR Talk ; Digitrax Group=20 Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 4:17 PM Subject: [PRR] BLI J1 Group: I picked up two BLI J-1's today and must report that these, IMHO, are = very well done and beautiful locomotives. They run well, sound good and = pull like a champ. =20 The only down side that I've noticed is the exhaust sync. Bad, in my = opinion. The timing of the wheels is such that the wheels run well = ahead of the exhaust cadence. This is, however, better that the exhaust = running ahead of the wheel speed. I've compared this to the sync of the = BLI M-1's and notice that these are much better. Does anyone know of a way to adjust this? I've tried start voltage, = speed tables, etcetera, but nothing changes the poor sync. BTW, these babies have a true working coupler on the pilot. Great for = double heading. The double heading of these engines is not only great = from an esthetic viewpoint, it tends to block out the poor exhaust sync = from your senses. Regards, Larry Reynolds ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C4518D.FB622B90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

I have been double heading my J1 with my M1. I = was=20 hoping to get slow drift into and out of sync with each other. = This would=20 be due to the slight difference in driver diam (70" and 72" I=20 think). But they same to be about the same. Now this raises = a=20 question. Since there is no cam, the chuff rate must be set = by=20 voltage from voltage. Now this could be track voltage or the = motor=20 back EMF voltage. The latter would more exactly follow the speed = of each=20 loco. Back EMF can be deduced by subtracting an estimate of the = armature=20 IR drop from the track voltage. But, for all this to be able to = capture=20 the subtle differences in driver diameter, some careful adjustment would = be=20 required. I suspect, however, I am getting almost the same cuff = per volt=20 on each loco. Any comments from others re this?

Fred Rea

PS Please don't banish me to an EE list before I get = a=20 reply. Or, does all this belong in the world of patent litigation? = I hope=20 that conflict is only re using back EMF for speed contol.

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Larry = Reynolds=20
To: PRR Talk ; Digitrax=20 Group

Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 = 4:17 PM

Subject: [PRR] BLI J1

Group:

I picked up two BLI J-1's today and = must report=20 that these, IMHO, are very well done and beautiful = locomotives. =20 They run well, sound good and pull like a champ. =

The only down side that I've noticed = is the=20 exhaust sync. Bad, in my opinion. The timing of the wheels = is such=20 that the wheels run well ahead of the exhaust cadence. This is,=20 however, better that the exhaust running ahead of the wheel = speed. =20 I've compared this to the sync of the BLI M-1's and notice=20 that these are much better.

Does anyone know of a way to adjust = this? =20 I've tried start voltage, speed tables, etcetera, but nothing changes = the=20 poor sync.

BTW, these babies have a true working = coupler on=20 the pilot. Great for double heading. The double heading of = these=20 engines is not only great from an esthetic viewpoint, it tends to = block out=20 the poor exhaust sync from your senses.

Regards,

Larry=20 Reynolds

------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C4518D.FB622B90-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J1 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 08:18:59 -0400 =20 I agree with the positive of a working front coupler. Also note that = they have three holes in the drawbar for tender spacing. It may be a = function of the tender style, but at no position is there any possible = chance of a shorting that I can see---that could be a problem on other = locos. Bob: I really like the three positions of the drawbar holes. I find the = center position to work well. The closest position is too close for = most layouts. Downside is that for whatever reason, in a tractor pull, mine would = lose out to a Bachmann K4. It slips with almost no load at all on a = 0.5% grade on a 40 inch radius superelevated curve, slips through the = next stretch of complicated trackwork on a flat and then slips on a 1.5% = straight grade with anything more than 5 cars. =20 I am wondering (will ask BLI) if there is something wrong in the = equalization that can be corrected. Are we talking the same engine here? I added 28 cars to one engine = and it pulled the train up a 1.5% grade and through two super elevated = curves, (large radius), with no problems. I'll try it again, all the = way up the hill, and report on the test later. Re the synchronization, I double header mine with my M1b. Shouldn't = the two engines with nearly the same driver diameter have the same chuff = rate, albeit out of synch, or am I missing something? I too noticed a = different rate with the J. Yes, the exhaust sync, as I reported, is disappointing. It appears to = be about four chuffs to each 1 1/2 driver revolution. As the speed = increases, the drivers appear to go two revolutions to every four beats = of exhaust. Not Good! I'll probable keep mine double headed. = Possibly put into helper service on the East Slope. Following up on a previous post of mine, the DGLE color on the J is = about the same as the M1b. OK with me under clubroom lighting and in = view of the fact that they will eventually be weathered.=20 The color seems, to me, blacker than the M1s. Regardless, they are = beautiful!=20 The only other bit of disappointment is there seems to no sound = reduction in exhaust when hitting the dynamic brake function, (I believe = function five), which is nice for drifting. Regards, Larry Reynolds =20 I picked up two BLI J-1's today and must report that these, IMHO, = are very well done and beautiful locomotives. They run well, sound good = and pull like a champ. =20 The only down side that I've noticed is the exhaust sync. Bad, in = my opinion. The timing of the wheels is such that the wheels run well = ahead of the exhaust cadence. This is, however, better that the exhaust = running ahead of the wheel speed. I've compared this to the sync of the = BLI M-1's and notice that these are much better. ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01C451E8.3EB9C100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

I agree with the positive of a = working front=20 coupler. Also note that they have three holes in the = drawbar for=20 tender spacing. It may be a function of the tender style, but at = no=20 position is there any possible chance of a shorting that I can = see---that=20 could be a problem on other locos.

Bob:

I really like the three = positions of=20 the drawbar holes. I find the center position to work = well. The=20 closest position is too close for most = layouts.

Downside is that for whatever reason, = in a=20 tractor pull, mine would lose out to a Bachmann K4. It slips = with almost=20 no load at all on a 0.5% grade on a 40 inch radius superelevated = curve, slips=20 through the next stretch of complicated trackwork on a flat and then = slips on=20 a 1.5% straight grade with anything more than 5 cars. =20

I am wondering (will ask BLI) if = there is=20 something wrong in the equalization that can be = corrected.

Are we talking the same = engine=20 here? I added 28 cars to one engine and it pulled the train up a = 1.5%=20 grade and through two super elevated curves, (large radius), with no=20 problems. I'll try it again, all the way up the hill, and report = on the=20 test later.

Re the synchronization, I double = header mine with=20 my M1b. Shouldn't the two engines with nearly the same driver = diameter=20 have the same chuff rate, albeit out of synch, or am = I missing=20 something? I too noticed a different rate with the = J.

Yes, the exhaust sync, as = I reported,=20 is disappointing. It appears to be about four chuffs to each 1 = 1/2=20 driver revolution. As the speed increases, the drivers appear to = go two=20 revolutions to every four beats of exhaust. Not = Good! I'll probable keep mine double = headed. Possibly=20 put into helper service on the East Slope.

Following up on a previous post of = mine, the DGLE=20 color on the J is about the same as the M1b. OK with me under = clubroom=20 lighting and in view of the fact that they will eventually be = weathered.=20

The color seems, to me, = blacker than=20 the M1s. Regardless, they are=20 beautiful!

The only other bit of = disappointment=20 is there seems to no sound reduction in exhaust when hitting the = dynamic brake=20 function, (I believe function five), which is nice for=20 drifting.

Regards,

Larry=20 Reynolds

I picked up two BLI J-1's today and = must report=20 that these, IMHO, are very well done and beautiful = locomotives. =20 They run well, sound good and pull like a champ. =

The only down side that I've = noticed is the=20 exhaust sync. Bad, in my opinion. The timing of the = wheels is=20 such that the wheels run well ahead of the exhaust cadence. = This is,=20 however, better that the exhaust running ahead of the wheel=20 speed. I've compared this to the sync of the BLI M-1's and = notice=20 that these are much=20 better.

------=_NextPart_000_0058_01C451E8.3EB9C100-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Train Phone Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:47:35 -0400 Absolutely. The BS-12ms were the mainstay operating in pairs up until 1965 when they were transferred out. WDV -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of AUDIOWIZARD1@aol.com Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 11:06 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Train Phone Hi all Did they use Train Phone's on the delmarva division? Thanks Gene Proud ------=_NextPart_000_00B4_01C451F4.A8B08FB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message

Absolutely. The BS-12ms were the = mainstay=20 operating in pairs up until 1965 when they were transferred = out.

WDV

-----Original Message-----
From: = PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of=20 AUDIOWIZARD1@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 11:06 = PM
To: prr-talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] Train=20 Phone

Hi all

Did they use Train Phone's on the delmarva division?

Thanks

Gene Proud

------=_NextPart_000_00B4_01C451F4.A8B08FB0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI J1 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:54:27 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-reply-to: <4277-40CCDC12-1889@storefull-3113.bay.webtv.net> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Is the traction tire option included with the J1? If so that's good = new for everyone. Some folks hate traction tires, while others (like = myself) feel they are an acceptable way to get around the fact that we don't = have working sand but do have steep grades. Regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Gary = Mittner Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 6:58 PM To: Bob Zoeller Cc: PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J1 Bob, Prelimanary reports from a BLI J1 owner I know may be the reason your = J1 is acting the way it is as well. John placed his J1 on a glass surface = and noticed the 4th and 5th drivers were not touching the the surface. Not = sure if this is limited to his J1 or a design flaw. He overcome this by = adding shims above the bearings to lower the axle to the railhead. All drivers touch the rails now. He will put it to a layout test sometime in the = near future. He will at that time test with the traction tire as well. I am gathering the pluses and minuses on this loco for a review = in a future TKM. So far the Pluses are winning (G). But the minuses are = showing up as well. I will receive my J this week and I can compare mine with = the known problems as of now. But, the overall opinion so far is BLI hit the target. May not be a Bullseye but close enough for most = modelers.....Gary=20 Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art = Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <348EBFFA-BE0D-11D8-8164-000A958DAD46@mail.auburn.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: "'PRR-Talk LIST'" From: Bruce Smith Subject: [PRR] Intermountain B60B clarification Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:14:53 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Morning Folks, In reviewing recent messages regarding the Intermountain/BCW B60B, there appears to be some misunderstanding about the construction of the model. It is not made with brass car sides. The car is described as having an "injection molded body" on the IM web page (http://www.intermountain-railway.com/). It is not clear if these are parts assembled from ECW B60B kits bought back by BCW (which originally tooled the B60B) or new tooling. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <348EBFFA-BE0D-11D8-8164-000A958DAD46@mail.auburn.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: "'PRR-Talk LIST'" From: Bruce Smith Subject: [PRR] Intermountain B60B clarification Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:14:53 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Morning Folks, In reviewing recent messages regarding the Intermountain/BCW B60B, there appears to be some misunderstanding about the construction of the model. It is not made with brass car sides. The car is described as having an "injection molded body" on the IM web page (http://www.intermountain-railway.com/). It is not clear if these are parts assembled from ECW B60B kits bought back by BCW (which originally tooled the B60B) or new tooling. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Turning GG1's Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 14:27:21 +0000 Other than Sunnyside with the loops are there any other known places where G's were turned? Anybody ever see a picture of one on a turntable? Thanks, N. Bell --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_9002_1087223241_0 Content-Type: text/html Other than Sunnyside with the loops are there any other known places where G's were turned? Anybody ever see a picture of one on a turntable? Thanks, N. Bell --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_9002_1087223241_0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Turning GG1's Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 14:27:21 +0000 Other than Sunnyside with the loops are there any other known places where G's were turned? Anybody ever see a picture of one on a turntable? Thanks, N. Bell --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_9002_1087223241_0 Content-Type: text/html Other than Sunnyside with the loops are there any other known places where G's were turned? Anybody ever see a picture of one on a turntable? Thanks, N. Bell --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_9002_1087223241_0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Turning GG1's Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 11:25:17 -0400 I put plenty of them on the turntable at Enola myself, but I never took a picture of one because the totally round roundhouse wouldn't let me get far enough back. Besides was usually busy with the hostler. The Gs routinely were turned on the table at Ivy City as well. Not often but occasionally. Probably a few were turned at Harrisburg too, if there was a problem on one end or t'other. G's visiting 46th Street in Phila would have been an extremely rare occasion. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of ndbprr@att.net Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 10:27 AM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Turning GG1's Other than Sunnyside with the loops are there any other known places where G's were turned? Anybody ever see a picture of one on a turntable? Thanks, N. Bell ------=_NextPart_000_00CF_01C45202.45AE9CA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message

I put=20 plenty of them on the turntable at Enola myself, but I never took a = picture of=20 one because the totally round roundhouse wouldn't let me get far enough=20 back. Besides was usually busy with the hostler. The Gs = routinely=20 were turned on the table at Ivy City as well. Not often but=20 occasionally. Probably a few were turned at Harrisburg too, if = there was a=20 problem on one end or t'other. G's visiting 46th Street in Phila = would=20 have been an extremely rare occasion.

-----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of=20 ndbprr@att.net
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 10:27=20 AM
To: PRR-Talk
Subject: [PRR] Turning=20 GG1's

Other = than=20 Sunnyside with the loops are there any other known places where G's = were=20 turned? Anybody ever see a picture of one on a turntable? = Thanks,=20 N. Bell

------=_NextPart_000_00CF_01C45202.45AE9CA0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] Turning GG1's Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 12:10:35 -0400 This might sound like a dumb question but what would be the reason to = turn them? I thought the way the cab was situated they could be run in = either direction.... SamV ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ndbprr@att.net=20 To: PRR-Talk=20 Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 10:27 AM Subject: [PRR] Turning GG1's Other than Sunnyside with the loops are there any other known places = where G's were turned? Anybody ever see a picture of one on a = turntable? Thanks, N. Bell ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C45208.993DB2B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

This might sound like a dumb question = but what=20 would be the reason to turn them? I thought the way the cab was situated = they=20 could be run in either direction....

SamV

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 ndbprr@att.net

To: PRR-Talk

Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 = 10:27=20 AM

Subject: [PRR] Turning = GG1's

Other than Sunnyside = with=20 the loops are there any other known places where G's were = turned? =20 Anybody ever see a picture of one on a turntable? Thanks, N. = Bell ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C45208.993DB2B0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Turning GG1's Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 13:14:31 -0400 Even though the Gs were "maintained" at Wilmington Shop where there was no need for a turntable, occasionally one would show up at Enola requiring drop table work (usually drive cups caused by the drivers being out of equalization). To get to the drop table we had to tow the dead motor with a diesel switcher into the house. Also there would be occasions such as an inoperative windshield wiper, cab signal pickup bar etc. requiring the unit to be turned at Harrisburg or Ivy City or Meadows etc. Not often but you asked if they were EVER turned. Answer is "Yes". -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Sam Vastano Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 12:11 PM To: ndbprr@att.net; PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] Turning GG1's This might sound like a dumb question but what would be the reason to turn them? I thought the way the cab was situated they could be run in either direction.... SamV ----- Original Message ----- From: ndbprr@att.net To: PRR-Talk Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 10:27 AM Subject: [PRR] Turning GG1's Other than Sunnyside with the loops are there any other known places where G's were turned? Anybody ever see a picture of one on a turntable? Thanks, N. Bell ------=_NextPart_000_00F5_01C45211.8BFCD1E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message

Even=20 though the Gs were "maintained" at Wilmington Shop where there was no = need for a=20 turntable, occasionally one would show up at Enola requiring drop table = work=20 (usually drive cups caused by the drivers being out of equalization). To = get to=20 the drop table we had to tow the dead motor with a diesel switcher into = the=20 house. Also there would be occasions such as an inoperative = windshield=20 wiper, cab signal pickup bar etc. requiring the unit to be turned at = Harrisburg=20 or Ivy City or Meadows etc. Not often but you asked if they were = EVER=20 turned. Answer is "Yes".

-----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Sam=20 Vastano
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 12:11 PM
To:=20 ndbprr@att.net; PRR-Talk
Subject: Re: [PRR] Turning=20 GG1's

This might sound like a dumb question = but what=20 would be the reason to turn them? I thought the way the cab was = situated they=20 could be run in either direction....

SamV

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 ndbprr@att.net=20
To: PRR-Talk

Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 = 10:27=20 AM

Subject: [PRR] Turning = GG1's

Other than = Sunnyside with=20 the loops are there any other known places where G's were = turned? =20 Anybody ever see a picture of one on a turntable? Thanks, N. = Bell

------=_NextPart_000_00F5_01C45211.8BFCD1E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 14:33:58 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Intermountain B60B clarification These cars are simply the original Bethlehem Car Works kits assembled and painted/decaled. BCW purchased the parts from ECW . The trucks are from the current BCW line and are metal sideframes/bolster with Intermountain wheelsets. It is my understanding that a total of 1500 cars will be produced . ----- Ken McCorry --part1_ba.58b44b30.2dff4996_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" These cars ar= e simply the original Bethlehem Car Works kits assembled and painted/decaled= . BCW purchased the parts from ECW . The trucks are from the current BCW lin= e and are metal sideframes/bolster with Intermountain wheelsets. It is my un= derstanding that a total of 1500 cars will be produced . ----- Ken McCorry --part1_ba.58b44b30.2dff4996_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 14:56:30 -0400 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] St. Louis RPM Meet in TKM Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: John.Golden5@scott.af.mil writes: > Greg, Al, > > Thanks a bunch for the ad space in the latest TKM. I owe you one--let me know if there's anything I can do to repay you. > > Unfortunately there's a typo that needs to be corrected at your earliest convenience. There's a reference in the text that the event will be in O'Fallon, MO. The event is in O'Fallon, IL, not in Missouri. This normally wouldn't be a big deal, but there literally is an O'Fallon, MO right across the river in the St. Louis metro area and I wouldn't want anyone to get confused. > > The latest TKM is smashing, BTW. > > John John and all, My Mistake! Let me appologize right up front. The confucion was on my part entirely, let me explain... We at Cascade Warehouse (my Day Job) ship rail cars to O'Fallon all the time with plywood. I had no idea there was an O'Fallon in both states... YIKES! And it was funny because as I was putting my column together I was talking online with my good friend John Welther and ask him how far the event was from his house and he said about 30 mintutes... But I failed to pick up the fact that the event was in O'FALLON, IL NOT in the "Show Me State". MY mistake and I think that Al may be able to go in and correct it in THE KEYSTONE MODELER (shameless plug). But everyone please NOTE TH CORRECTION and forgive me. Let's make sure John venue is well supported and hopefully becomes an annual event. WE do wish you all the success, John, regardless of the error. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 14:57:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Intermountain B60B clarification From: Jerry Britton In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I was guilty of indicating that the forthcoming B60b would feature newly tooled sides in brass, with new trucks to boot. Needless to say, I was caught a bit off-guard when InterMountain indicated they were plastic and there was conjecture that they were really the ECW kits. I have been privately notified that my original post was correct -- at the time. That was last fall. Since that time BCW backpedalled, knowing that Walthers was going to come out with a B60b. So they changed plans and did indeed go with ECW B60b car parts, BCW trucks, and IM wheelsets. I apologize for the confusion, but the information was correct at the time. I didn't learn otherwise until this week. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Turning GG1's Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:06:49 -0400 From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net] Subject: [PRR] Turning GG1's size=2>-----Original Message-----
From: ndbprr@att.net AM
To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] Turning Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:13:51 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Turning GG1's From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Yes, the Sunnyside loop was for turning entire trains. On Monday, June 14, 2004, at 03:06 PM, Chany, Christopher wrote: > Wasn't the loop for turning whole passenger trains? > =A0 > Chris Chany > > -----Original Message----- > From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net] > Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 10:27 AM > To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Turning GG1's > > Other than Sunnyside with the loops are there any other known places=20= > where G's were turned?=A0 Anybody ever see a picture of one on a=20 > turntable?=A0 Thanks, N. Bell > > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Turning GG1's Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 17:02:02 -0400 That is correct. I believe there is a picture in my Pennsy Electric Years of the pit at Ivy City with the roundhouse (B&O) in the background. Don't have a copy handy to confirm but I recall putting one in the book. At least of the Ivy City facility. By the way, e-mails from me direct to you bounce back undelivered. -----Original Message----- From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net] Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 3:23 PM To: Bill Volkmer Subject: RE: [PRR] Turning GG1's Do I assume correctly that there never was a turrntable with Catenary? -------------- Original message from "Bill Volkmer" : -------------- ------=_NextPart_000_012B_01C45231.50CA8020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message

That=20 is correct. I believe there is a picture in my Pennsy = Electric Years=20 of the pit at Ivy City with the roundhouse (B&O) in the = background. =20 Don't have a copy handy to confirm but I recall putting one in the = book. =20 At least of the Ivy City facility.

By the=20 way, e-mails from me direct to you bounce back = undelivered.

-----Original Message-----
From: = ndbprr@att.net=20 [mailto:ndbprr@att.net]
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 3:23=20 PM
To: Bill Volkmer
Subject: RE: [PRR] Turning=20 GG1's

Do I = assume=20 correctly that there never was a turrntable with Catenary?
--------------=20 Original message from "Bill Volkmer" : = --------------=20

------=_NextPart_000_012B_01C45231.50CA8020-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Weldon" Subject: [PRR] Purchase Pennsy Signals Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 19:05:12 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: With all the recent posts re : PRR signals, can an individual purchase such signals and where can they be purchased? All the best to you and yours Weldon ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 10:57 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Signals > > Pure PRR PL signals remain on Amtrak's main between Paoli > and Harrisburg. Still all amber and still have the "Stop & Proceed" > aspect. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 21:25:05 -0500 From: Randy Williamson Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Get Together at Seattle Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 21:25:05 -0500 From: Randy Williamson Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Get Together at Seattle From: "michael hmel" Subject: [PRR] circus train..... Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 22:27:32 -0400 Hello List , Anyone west of Pittburgh on the list keep your eyes open for the = Ringling Bros Circus train . It came by on the PRR main ( NS ) throught = the South Side of Pittsburgh at @ 10:15 . Quite a long train ..... Its = headed west to Conway and ....... Mike Hmel=20 =20 Member : TCA , PRRT&HS Lists : PRR Talk , PC Modeling , Conrail Talk Lionel Collectors , Toytraintrading E-Mail : michaelhmel@netzero.net=20 E-bay : iron*mah =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C4525E.C8DDA970 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hello List ,

Anyone west of Pittburgh on the list = keep your eyes=20 open for the Ringling Bros Circus train . It came by on the PRR = main ( NS )=20 throught the South Side of Pittsburgh at @ 10:15 . Quite a long = train=20 ..... Its headed west to Conway and .......

Mike Hmel

Member : TCA , = PRRT&HS
Lists :=20 PRR Talk , PC Modeling , Conrail=20 Talk
Lionel = Collectors=20 , Toytraintrading
E-Mail : michaelhmel@netzero.net =
E-bay :=20 iron*mah

=20

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C4525E.C8DDA970-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 23:00:34 -0400 From: Jerry Jordak Subject: [PRR] Re: Turning GG1's Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Norm Bell wrote: > Other than Sunnyside with the loops are there any other known places > where G's were turned? > Anybody ever see a picture of one on a turntable? Yep, there's a picture of 4800 on this page of my Penn Central web site: http://pc.smellycat.com/pics/equip/electric.html It's the fourth picture down the page. -JWJ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Turning GG1's Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 09:43:13 -0400 Norm: I am still unable to reach you off list. If you'd like, call me at 786-367-4887 or remove me from your black list. Bill Volkmer -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of ndbprr@att.net Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 10:27 AM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Turning GG1's Other than Sunnyside with the loops are there any other known places where G's were turned? Anybody ever see a picture of one on a turntable? Thanks, N. Bell ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C452BD.2D864F90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message

Norm:

I am=20 still unable to reach you off list. If you'd like, call me at = 786-367-4887=20 or remove me from your black list.

Bill Volkmer

-----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of=20 ndbprr@att.net
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 10:27=20 AM
To: PRR-Talk
Subject: [PRR] Turning=20 GG1's

Other = than=20 Sunnyside with the loops are there any other known places where G's = were=20 turned? Anybody ever see a picture of one on a turntable? = Thanks,=20 N. Bell

------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C452BD.2D864F90-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:31:52 -0400 From: Tom Hayden Subject: [PRR] RE: Circus Train From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Congo car in Chicago Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:35:20 +0000 From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Congo car in Chicago Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:35:20 +0000 From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] TKM No 11 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:01:54 -0400 From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: [PRR] New Problem With the BLI J-1 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:49:03 -0400 Gents: I discovered a problem in the drive on one of my new J-1s. The drivers = started to bind looking much like a side-rod / main-rod / eccentric-rod = problem. This first occurred after the locomotive came out of a super = elevated curve. Also, it only seemed to jam under load. I noticed that = the #1 driver was lifting and causing the jam. This is not good! I = turned the engine over and put power to the thing and observed that the = #1 driver is VERY close to the steam chest. What is happening here, is = the #1 driver, when being slightly raised, (due to entering super = elevated track or just imperfect track), is jamming against the rear of = the steam chest and causing the wheel to cock and jamb the mechanism. I = also noticed that the driver was wearing a groove, much like a wheel = well, into the steam chest. I gently held down the wheels against the = steam chest and powered the engine in the hope that the "wheel well" = would further increase. This seems to have solved the problem. I hope! = =20 I post this to the Digitrax list due to initial thoughts of a decoder = problem.=20 BTW, I really don't have imperfect track, none of us do.....right! = Larry ------=_NextPart_000_0069_01C452F8.AA0A8640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Gents:

I discovered a problem in the = drive on one of=20 my new J-1s. The drivers started to bind looking much like a = side-rod /=20 main-rod / eccentric-rod problem. This first occurred after = the=20 locomotive came out of a super elevated curve. Also, it only = seemed to jam=20 under load. I noticed that the #1 driver was lifting and causing = the=20 jam. This is not good! I turned the engine over and put = power to the=20 thing and observed that the #1 driver is VERY close to the steam = chest. =20 What is happening here, is the #1 driver, when being slightly raised, = (due to=20 entering super elevated track or just imperfect track), is jamming = against the=20 rear of the steam chest and causing the wheel to cock and jamb the=20 mechanism. I also noticed that the driver was wearing a groove, = much like=20 a wheel well, into the steam chest. I gently held down the wheels = against=20 the steam chest and powered the engine in the hope that the "wheel = well"=20 would further increase. This seems to have solved the = problem. I=20 hope!

I post this to the Digitrax list due=20 to initial thoughts of a decoder problem.

BTW, I really don't have imperfect = track, none of=20 us do.....right! <VBG>

Larry

------=_NextPart_000_0069_01C452F8.AA0A8640-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 20:30:17 -0700 From: Peter Weiglin Subject: [PRR] InterMountain B60b Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bruce Smith wrote: Morning Folks, In reviewing recent messages regarding the Intermountain/BCW B60B, there appears to be some misunderstanding about the construction of the model. It is not made with brass car sides. The car is described as having an "injection molded body" on the IM web page (http://www.intermountain-railway.com/). It is not clear if these are parts assembled from ECW B60B kits bought back by BCW (which originally tooled the B60B) or new tooling. = = = = From the photos, it looks like the baggage doors are not recessed. As I remember, this was a characteristic of the old kits. Whether it's new tooling or not, it seems to perpetuate the lack of depth. Now where did I put that old J-C kit??...it had "shallow door syndrome" too. Peter Weiglin San Mateo, CA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 20:30:17 -0700 From: Peter Weiglin Subject: [PRR] InterMountain B60b Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bruce Smith wrote: Morning Folks, In reviewing recent messages regarding the Intermountain/BCW B60B, there appears to be some misunderstanding about the construction of the model. It is not made with brass car sides. The car is described as having an "injection molded body" on the IM web page (http://www.intermountain-railway.com/). It is not clear if these are parts assembled from ECW B60B kits bought back by BCW (which originally tooled the B60B) or new tooling. = = = = From the photos, it looks like the baggage doors are not recessed. As I remember, this was a characteristic of the old kits. Whether it's new tooling or not, it seems to perpetuate the lack of depth. Now where did I put that old J-C kit??...it had "shallow door syndrome" too. Peter Weiglin San Mateo, CA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 07:58:32 -0400 Subject: [PRR] TANGENT - HTML Appearing In Digests From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <7D313EA6-BF8C-11D8-8B9F-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I have confirmed that for "many e-mail clients" that stray HTML/MIME codes appear in the text, creating a really annoying appearance. I use commercial software, LetterRip, and have been very stable on the 3.x version for several years. Version 4.x has been out for some time, but the main benefit is compatibility with the MacOS X operating system, which I do not run on my server (yet). There are some other benefits of the upgrade, but I have not seen the need for it. I have now confirmed that version 4.x will strip HTML out of the digests. For that reason alone, I will purchase and implement the upgrade. However, as I am going on vacation in a few weeks, I am not going to take the chance of destabilizing the server prior to my departure. Therefore, I will budget for, and install, this upgrade in late July. Thank you for your patience in this regard. ---------------------------------------- Listmaster Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-Talk From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain B60b Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:08:16 -0500 To: Peter Weiglin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Jun 15, 2004, at 10:30 PM, Peter Weiglin wrote: > From the photos, it looks like the baggage doors are not recessed. As > I remember, this was a characteristic of the old kits. Whether it's > new tooling or not, it seems to perpetuate the lack of depth. > > Now where did I put that old J-C kit??...it had "shallow door > syndrome" too. I have plans for my remaining ECW B60B kit... and they include removing the doors! That will give me an opportunity to add the recessed depth as the doors will be behind the sides. Mine will be serving as a kitchen car in a troop train. After getting a good look at the inside arrangements in Juliet, the theatrical scenery car at the Railroad Museum of Greater Cincinnati, I'm ready to put an interior in (not too much to add ) Hopefully, I can get some interior parts from the Walthers Troop Kitchen car, as the US ARMY range will be needed as well. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: [PRR] BLI J-1 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 09:26:55 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-reply-to: <000701c4298f$0b1eda50$6401a8c0@ABBuchan> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I got mine yesterday. Wow! Besides being the beautiful model I = expected, it come with an optional traction tired rear driver. The center of = gravity of the loco is toward the rear (a common situation for steam loco = models). So the rear driver is where the traction tire should do the most good. = As delivered. w/o the traction tire, my J barely managed 17 cars up the = long, curving 2%+ grade at the North Shore Club. With the driver swap-out it easily handled 35. I have not yet found its limit. I just ran out of = time. I had to get home so I could get to work today and earn more money to = spend on trains ;-) There is also plenty of room in the smokebox for = additional weight, but I don't think this loco will need it. If it handles no more than the 35 cars its already done, I'm a happy camper! Now for the down side. Can anyone explain the Byzantine procedure for entering a long address on this beast? I am a computer engineer. I am facile with hex et. Al. It took me four attempts with the aid of a calculator to do the modulo 255 arithmetic. I had to have the tender = shell left off so I could manually reset the decoder (4 times) and start over. = I eventually got through it, but it is enough to convince many others that = DCC is the Devil's invention. Why can't this loco be programmed the same = way others, including other BLI's, are ?? Why won't CV 17 and 18 accept = the long address the way my club's NCE system expects? Nit pick: The model comes with a nice thumbnail history of the PRR J1, including the use of a steel bell. I presume all the country's brass = was then being used for shell casings for functional delivery to Japan and Germany ;-) But the model has a brass bell! It's not like they = didn't know. Regards, Andy Miller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 09:37:24 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Andy They knew all about the Steel Bell this J should have had installed. I can't remember how many times I let them know. All they needed to do was mold it in black plastic or at the least paint the bell black, but that is just as easy for us to do I guess. I also sent them a recording of my J1 Bell. Although their hands were probably tied because it was a QSI sound board. I think I sent it to QSI as well but not sure. I am assuming they just used the Bell sound they aleady had made up from the Lionel J. I havn't had the chance to hear the BLI J Bell yet but read it had a higher "ding" than the Brass M1 and T1 Bells. Should actually be a duller "ding".....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI J-1 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 13:49:56 +0000 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 09:58:08 -0400 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J-1 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Ted/Andy/all: The reason BLI suggests the programming method they do is that these locos need more power on the programming track than many systems can provide. Programming in OPS MODE (on mainline) requires much less power. I have always been able to program the addresses on the programming track of my Digitrax Chief. I don't get feedback of a successful operation, but it works. I have programmed 10+ this way now. After programming the 4 digit address and CV 29 to turn it on, I program the rest (adjust volume, etc) on the main using OPS mode. It is a very bad idea to directly change CV 17/18/29 on the mainline using OPS mode. Last time I tried it, I had 4 engines respond to the new address. That's why BLI has the rather complex method of programming. Jeff Warner > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:01:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J-1 From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Wednesday, June 16, 2004, at 09:49 AM, Ted Andrews wrote: > I agree completely. Nearly all other decoders such as Digitrax and > Altas, readily and easily accept a 4-digit address. For the life of > me, I cannot understand BLI's logic in making the 4-digit address is > as difficult as they are. For now, I am keeping my BLI in 2-digit > addresses (the last 2-digits of the road number) with all of my other > engines 4-digit address. If there is a conflict, I will just use an > adjacent number. Unless I win the lottery, I don't think that I will > run out of the 2-digit numbers anytime soon. ;-) Not so fast, my friend! Atlas, easy? Okay, maybe in HO, but in N scale the factory-equipped decoders are Lenz and they are very difficult to program (Digitrax) in the default Paged mode. The answer from Atlas is to use the method being described for BLI, but I found that switching to Direct mode did the trick on the first try every time. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI J-1 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:53:52 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I'm not so lucky. I belong to a club with lots of DCC-happy members. = So we all are assigned a unique 2-digit prefix and then use the last 2-digits = as we choose (usually the last 2 digits of the loco). So 4-digit = addressing is a must. But neither my BLI GG1, not my BLI T1, not my BLI M1b had this awful process required to enter a long address. I just put the loco on = the track (main or programming) and entered the long address when asked - = done! -----Original Message----- From: Ted Andrews [mailto:ted_andrews@msn.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 9:50 AM To: asmiller@mitre.org; PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com; = PRR@yahoogroups.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI J-1 Andy wrote: >Now for the down side. Can anyone explain the Byzantine procedure for=20 >entering a long address on this beast? I am a computer engineer. I am >facile with hex et. Al. It took me four attempts with the aid of a >calculator to do the modulo 255 arithmetic. I had to have the tender = shell >left off so I could manually reset the decoder (4 times) and start = over. =20 >I >eventually got through it, but it is enough to convince many others=20 >that >DCC >is the Devil's invention. Why can't this loco be programmed the same = way >others, including other BLI's, are ?? Why won't CV 17 and 18 accept = the >long address the way my club's NCE system expects? I agree completely. Nearly all other decoders such as Digitrax and = Altas,=20 readily and easily accept a 4-digit address. For the life of me, I = cannot=20 understand BLI's logic in making the 4-digit address is as difficult as = they are. For now, I am keeping my BLI in 2-digit addresses (the last = 2-digits of the road number) with all of my other engines 4-digit address. If there = is a conflict, I will just use an adjacent number. Unless I win the lottery, = I=20 don't think that I will run out of the 2-digit numbers anytime soon. ;-) Ted ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "michael hmel" Subject: [PRR] varnish on the move .... Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:19:48 -0400 Hello list , In responds to the Congo / Stainless car siting post , I was told that = several cars will be in Pittsburgh at the PRR station for the TCA = convention slated for the week of June 20 to 26 in Monroeville . It is = possible this car is one of them heading east . A few members as far = away as California are using them as transportation to the convention . = I can't confirm any of this info , but I understand there may be at = least on vintage PRR car in the group . I'll keep the list posted . Mike Hmel =20 =20 Member : TCA , PRRT&HS Lists : PRR Talk , PC Modeling , Conrail Talk Lionel Collectors , Toytraintrading E-Mail : michaelhmel@netzero.net=20 E-bay : iron*mah =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C45393.D595AAB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hello list ,

In responds to the Congo / Stainless = car siting=20 post , I was told that several cars will be in Pittsburgh at the PRR = station for=20 the TCA convention slated for the week of June 20 to 26 in Monroeville = . It=20 is possible this car is one of them heading east . A few members as far = away as=20 California are using them as transportation to the convention . I = can't=20 confirm any of this info , but I understand there may be at least on = vintage PRR=20 car in the group . I'll keep the list posted .

Mike Hmel

Member : TCA , = PRRT&HS
Lists :=20 PRR Talk , PC Modeling , Conrail=20 Talk
Lionel = Collectors=20 , Toytraintrading
E-Mail : michaelhmel@netzero.net =
E-bay :=20 iron*mah

=20

------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C45393.D595AAB0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 14:40:13 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve July 4th Celebration From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <9A804316-BFC4-11D8-8B9F-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Haven't heard much on this since the original announcement. And the Altoona Museum's web site isn't really drawing attention to it. Anybody seen any new info? Are there any special events at the museum over that weekend tied in with the lighting event? Anyone going? Should be neat. I had an existing conflict and won't be attending. Hopefully they'll sell photos/video following. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Weldon" Subject: [PRR] Snappers and Communications Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 15:45:17 -0400 I wanted to thank those who replied. This is a fascinating topic, to me anyway. I have several videos showing operations on the "Curve", but have never = seen midtrain snappers!! Someone out there know of a video title which may show midtrain = snappers? Steam or Diesel!!! All the best to you and yours Weldon ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Weldon=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com ; PRR@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 8:38 PM Subject: [PRR] Re: "Snappers and Communications Before radio communication, I assume engine crews communicated by a = series of whistle blasts. As an example, how did the snapper crews know = when to push and how hard? ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C453B8.EC167880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

I wanted to thank those = who=20 replied.

This is a fascinating = topic, to me=20 anyway.

I have several videos = showing=20 operations on the "Curve", but have never seen midtrain = snappers!!

Someone out there know = of a video=20 title which may show midtrain snappers? Steam or = Diesel!!!

All the best to you and = yours Weldon

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Weldon=20
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com ; PRR@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 = 8:38=20 PM

Subject: [PRR] Re: "Snappers = and=20 Communications

Before radio = communication, I=20 assume engine crews communicated by a series of whistle blasts. = As an=20 example, how did the snapper crews know when to push and how=20 hard?

------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C453B8.EC167880-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] Surviving Varnish Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:21:09 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Mike and listers, Without doing some thorough googling I believe that the only PRR car in varnish service based out of CA would be the Colonial Crafts. A 3db, 1dw, lounge car. Off the top of my head surviving varnish cars from PRR service would be : PRR 120 "Pennsylvania"-Z74d Business Car. "Henry Hudson"- 29s, 1 dw, converted to cafeteria car. "Colonial Crafts"- mentioned above. "Dover Harbor"- Oldest heavyweight Pullman in varnish service, served on PRR for a small period of time. Cars i've seen for sale of PRR Heritage are: "Madley" 12-1 heavyweight painted in MOW yellow, interior gutted, i believe asking $12,000. "Mystical? Brook" 12db car from 38 or 39 Broadway, interior is semi-intact painted in NDeM colors, in Mexico. I've seen at least eight B60b's in varying condition usually asking $8,000. I've also seen the ex-PRR "George Washington" AFAIK the interior is intact, though the body is only in stainless steel. It's based out of Arizona and is used for Movie/TV service. Most of this can be found through some searching of AAPRCO site and companies with cars for sale can be found through surfing through AAPRCO's trade members link. I personally find it interesting and think it would be neat to model cars that still exist today. Best Regards, John Designer, Modeler, Consultant Mount Vernon Shops Baltimore, MD Specializing in HO & N scale for the Pennsy modeler. "michael hmel" wrote: Hello list , In responds to the Congo / Stainless car siting post , I was told that several cars will be in Pittsburgh at the PRR station for the TCA convention slated for the week of June 20 to 26 in Monroeville . It is possible this car is one of them heading east . A few members as far away as California are using them as transportation to the convention . I can't confirm any of this info , but I understand there may be at least on vintage PRR car in the group . I'll keep the list posted . Mike Hmel Member : TCA , PRRT&HS Lists : PRR Talk , PC Modeling , Conrail Talk Lionel Collectors , Toytraintrading E-Mail : michaelhmel@netzero.net E-bay : iron*mah ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 16:54:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Varnish From: Frederick Ripley Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:18:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Varnish From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" >From: Frederick Ripley >Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Varnish >Date: Wed, Jun 16, 2004, 16:54 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 19:21:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Varnish From: Jamie Bothwell In-Reply-To: <200406162218.i5GMIcaq018335@arctic.tamug.tamu.edu> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out010.verizon.net from [151.197.190.2] at Wed, 16 Jun 2004 18:19:43 -0500 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, In addition to the cars mentioned previously there are about 35 heavyweight Pullmans of ex-PRR heritage existing at locations around the country. I have a photo of "Alder Falls" taken in 1988, so it should still be around. Both 1948 Broadway observations are still around. One is at Whippany, NJ and the other is at the RR Museum of PA. As recently as three years ago, Altoona had "Jacks Narrows" and "Harbor Springs". Jamie Bothwell PS John, Do you know where "Madley" is? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 18:30:45 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Varnish From: Frederick Ripley From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 20:01:53 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve July 4th Celebration MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The tickets to the park are sold out for the lighting of Horseshoe. All roads to the Curve will be closed. Still tickets left for the parking lot below Horseshoe. You won't be able to see anything from there because no trees have been cut. You can barely see trains from the park. What a shame. Some folks are camping out on the mountain sides to get a better view. I may be one of them. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 20:11:35 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Snappers and Communications MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Weldon...... "Horseshoe Curve Kaleidoscope" and "100 years at Horseshoe" show steam and diesel helpers or snappers. "100 years at Horseshoe" shows midtrain Centipedes on an ore train. These tapes/DVDs are by Revelation Audio-Visuals. Hope this helps. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 20:56:17 EDT Subject: [PRR] Pullman Photos Folks, This is from a posting on the Passenger Car List on Yahoo. Some very interesting photos. With PRR horse car and theatrical car in the works (read on the modeling bench) the one of the open car was of interest. Many good photos for you period modelers. Enjoy, Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 -------------------------------1087433777 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

Folks,

This is from a posting on the Passenger Car List on Yahoo. = Some very interesting photos. With PRR horse car and theatrical= car in the works (read on the modeling bench) the one of the open car was o= f interest. Many good photos for you period modelers.

Enjoy,

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS 7487
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ 2003<= /DIV> -------------------------------1087433777-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Varnish Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:08:58 -0400 To: PRR-talk X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Jun 16, 2004, at 5:54 PM, Frederick Ripley wrote: > In the late '80's, I remember seeing "Catalpa Falls" > in an excursion consist behind N&W 1218. Don't know > who owned it, or if it is still around. The owner of Catalpa Falls is on this list!!!! (I won't name names, to protect privacy.) The car was in lease service on the Northern Central Railway dinner train until it folded a few years ago. Not sure where the car is now. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com (PRR-Talk LIST) From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve July 4th Celebration Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:10:54 -0400 To: zootowerprr@webtv.net X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Jun 16, 2004, at 8:01 PM, zootowerprr@webtv.net wrote: > The tickets to the park are sold out for the lighting of > Horseshoe. All roads to the Curve will be closed. Still tickets left > for > the parking lot below Horseshoe. You won't be able to see anything from > there because no trees have been cut. You can barely see trains from > the > park. What a shame. > Some folks are camping out on the mountain sides to get a better view. > I > may be one of them. The tree issue brings up another point. When the high-angle photo was taken in 1954, the trees weren't grown up yet. You could see the tracks the whole way around and the trains were lighted for the shot. Even if you light the tracks now, won't they be blocked by trees unless you are taking an aerial photo? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Cprrboss@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:35:53 EDT Subject: [PRR] GG1's Turned? List, I don't keep email so I don't know what the primary question was regarding turning GG1's so please forgive me if I'm redundant. But, earlier this evening I had dinner with my father-in-law who is a retired PRR/CR locomotive engineer and spent many years behind the throttle of GG1's motoring between Washington and New York and occasionally into Harrisburg or Enola. I asked him if he remembered a GG1 being turned for any reason. His reply was no, they didn't need to be turned because the GG1 had dual controls for operation in either direction. He said they ran them in whatever direction they were pointed to get to wherever they were going. BTW, I have written an article about the 1953 wreck of The Federal Express and GG1 4861 into Washington's Union Station. The article is to be published in a forthcoming issue of The Keystone. BOB MARTIN, President & Superintendent Central Pennsylvania Railroad (CPRR) (HO Scale) A Penn Family Line --part1_11.2c0db713.2e024f79_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" List,

I don't keep email so I don't know what the primary question was regardi= ng turning GG1's so please forgive me if I'm redundant.

But, earlier this evening I had dinner with my father-in-law who is a re= tired PRR/CR locomotive engineer and spent many years behind the throttle of= GG1's motoring between Washington and New York and occasionally into Harris= burg or Enola. I asked him if he remembered a GG1 being turned for any= reason. His reply was no, they didn't need to be turned because the G= G1 had dual controls for operation in either direction. He said they r= an them in whatever direction they were pointed to get to wherever they were= going.

BTW, I have written an article about the 1953 wreck of The Federal Expre= ss and GG1 4861 into Washington's Union Station. The article is to be=20= published in a forthcoming issue of The Keystone.

BOB MARTIN, President & Superintendent
Central Pennsylvania Railroad (CPRR) (HO Scale<= /FONT>= )
A Penn Family Line

--part1_11.2c0db713.2e024f79_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:50:35 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve July 4th Celebration MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry & List... The only good shot that I could possibly shoot of the Curve would be from the mountain top directly across from the park looking down on the Curve. There was a path in from the old Glen White Run. Or rent a helicopter. Horseshoe is a sad site these days. The GP9 in the park looks worse every year. Hopefully something positive will happen to restore the views. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Varnish Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 22:22:00 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gents, Since i'm home now. The 12 single and 5 double bedroom car is the "Magic Brook". As far as the desciption says, the car has original fixtures, for $12,000 who wants a sleeping car charter service? http://www.trains-trams-trolleys.com/equipment/sleep.dine.lounge/5009/ For a picture of the B60b's for sale: http://www.trains-trams-trolleys.com/equipment/misc/9007/ Jamie asked about the "Madley", which is in sad shape, though it has been converted to roller bearings. http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/new_page_131.htm Another car which i remembered, though not a member of AAPRCO or RPCA is the "Francis Sueter", better known as Ex-PRR Z74? "Harrisburg", which is stored in running condition at the Strasburg Railroad. Last I heard the owner is in jail. If my fathe ror I ever won the lottery we would either like to get this car or the Ex-Norfolk & Western "Blue Ridge". I'm trying to make note of the varnish still in service as opposed to 'museum restored pieces'. As someone on this list has said numerous times, "It's not owning them thats the issue, it's maintenence and upkeep!" Best Regards, John Designer, Modeler, Consultant Mount Vernon Shops Baltimore, MD Specializing in HO & N scale for the Pennsy modeler. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 22:38:19 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve July 4th Celebration List, I would be surprised if there is no security on the surrounding hillside property. Don't forget,it is either railroad property or City of Altoona watershed property. Even where all the four wheeler trails are. Pat --part1_158.37a9dba7.2e025e1b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" List,
I would be surprised if there is no sec= urity on the surrounding hillside property. Don't forget,it is either railro= ad property or City of Altoona watershed property. Even where all the four w= heeler trails are.

Pat --part1_158.37a9dba7.2e025e1b_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Catalpa Falls Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 22:52:43 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Catalpa Falls is alive and well. One of my customers is one of the owners. It is progressing towards full restoration. Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass S Scale X29 http://www.pennsysmodels.com Production models of the REA Version arriving July 1st Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BillyDee53@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 04:06:21 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Varnish Budd diner 4614 (?) exists on the Seminole Gulf, in Fort Myers Florida. Car is in sad shape, and not operable . --part1_115.340ec1e6.2e02aafd_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Budd diner 4614 (?) exists on the S= eminole Gulf, in Fort Myers Florida. Car is in sad shape, and not oper= able . --part1_115.340ec1e6.2e02aafd_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:56:13 -0400 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Varnish Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: "Hazelton" a heavyweight Pullman is stored operable(?) at Little Creek Virginia. My understanding is that it's owned by the Tidewater Chapter or the NRHS. Jim McDaniel, Delmarva ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Don Millbranth" Subject: [PRR] Lost Varnish Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:29:54 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: "TRAINS" magazine (February 1962) carries a rather extensive article on the history of the Broadway Limited. One of the cars mentioned/pictured was called the "Wanatah". It was a 4-compartment library-observation car built by Pullman in 1905. Does anyone have, or know of, any additional information pertaining to this car? Thanks, Don PRRT&HS 7337 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "edmund burbage" Subject: [PRR] Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:12:04 -0400 A couple of weeks ago my Computer was hit by Lighting thru the telephone = line. It is fixed now and I am back on line. If you want to contact me please = do I am ready for your mails. Missed you all and your messages. Lee Burbage ------=_NextPart_000_0160_01C4544B.283A3440 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

A couple of weeks ago my Computer was hit by Lighting thru the = telephone=20 line.

It is fixed now and I am back on line. If you want to contact me = please do=20 I am ready for your mails.

Missed you all and your messages.

Lee Burbage

------=_NextPart_000_0160_01C4544B.283A3440-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Surviving Varnish Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:48:42 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I have not been back to look in a few years, but a Budd single-unit diner, I think from the Senator, used to be attached to a restaurant in Watertown MA. Unfortunately, it is tucked between 2 buildings and the only visible part of the car is (was?) the end, to which they affixed a dummy open platform :-(( However, you could go aboard and eat in the car. Regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of John Frantz Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 5:21 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Cc: michael hmel Subject: [PRR] Surviving Varnish Mike and listers, Without doing some thorough googling I believe that the only PRR car in varnish service based out of CA would be the Colonial Crafts. A 3db, 1dw, lounge car. Off the top of my head surviving varnish cars from PRR service would be : PRR 120 "Pennsylvania"-Z74d Business Car. "Henry Hudson"- 29s, 1 dw, converted to cafeteria car. "Colonial Crafts"- mentioned above. "Dover Harbor"- Oldest heavyweight Pullman in varnish service, served on PRR for a small period of time. Cars i've seen for sale of PRR Heritage are: "Madley" 12-1 heavyweight painted in MOW yellow, interior gutted, i believe asking $12,000. "Mystical? Brook" 12db car from 38 or 39 Broadway, interior is semi-intact painted in NDeM colors, in Mexico. I've seen at least eight B60b's in varying condition usually asking $8,000. I've also seen the ex-PRR "George Washington" AFAIK the interior is intact, though the body is only in stainless steel. It's based out of Arizona and is used for Movie/TV service. Most of this can be found through some searching of AAPRCO site and companies with cars for sale can be found through surfing through AAPRCO's trade members link. I personally find it interesting and think it would be neat to model cars that still exist today. Best Regards, John Designer, Modeler, Consultant Mount Vernon Shops Baltimore, MD Specializing in HO & N scale for the Pennsy modeler. "michael hmel" wrote: Hello list , In responds to the Congo / Stainless car siting post , I was told that several cars will be in Pittsburgh at the PRR station for the TCA convention slated for the week of June 20 to 26 in Monroeville . It is possible this car is one of them heading east . A few members as far away as California are using them as transportation to the convention . I can't confirm any of this info , but I understand there may be at least on vintage PRR car in the group . I'll keep the list posted . Mike Hmel Member : TCA , PRRT&HS Lists : PRR Talk , PC Modeling , Conrail Talk Lionel Collectors , Toytraintrading E-Mail : michaelhmel@netzero.net E-bay : iron*mah ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Cprrboss@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:28:16 EDT Subject: [PRR] Correction List, In my message, yesterday, regarding turning GG1's, I mentioned that I have written an article about the wreck of The Federal Express and GG1 4861. My apologies; my fingers got confused; the locomotive was actually 4876. Sorry about that! BTW I also forgot to mention that my father-in-law was the Fireman on 4876 that day. BOB MARTIN, President & Superintendent Central Pennsylvania Railroad (CPRR) (HO Scale) A Penn Family Line --part1_2d.3efbd7e6.2e031290_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" List,

In my message, yesterday, regarding turning GG1's, I mentioned that I ha= ve written an article about the wreck of The Federal Express and GG1 4861. &= nbsp;My apologies; my fingers got confused; the locomotive was actually 4876= . Sorry about that! BTW I also forgot to mention that my father-= in-law was the Fireman on 4876 that day.=20

BOB MARTIN, President & Superintendent
Central Pennsylvania Railroad (CPRR) (HO Scale<= /FONT>= )
A Penn Family Line
--part1_2d.3efbd7e6.2e031290_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 12:07:25 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Cumberland Valley Station For Sale From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <6C2B6915-C078-11D8-B99D-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Wanna own a railroad station? The ex-Cumberland Valley / ex-PRR railroad station in Mechanicsburg, Pa., is for sale. The current owner is the Borough of Mechanicsburg. See http://www.pennlive.com/news/patriotnews/index.ssf?/base/news/ 10874640353981.xml . ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Pullman Photos Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 13:27:04 -0400 From: RDG2124@aol.com [mailto:RDG2124@aol.com] Subject: [PRR] Pullman Photos face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----
From: RDG2124@aol.com PM
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] Pullman From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Congo car in Chicago Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:47:15 +0000 From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Keystone Number Plate drawings Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:31:53 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, Does anyone have genuine PRR (copies or otherwise) drawings for the Keystone and round number plates, Builder Plates, and tender badges? I would cover all copying and mailing costs. I would want the Keystone plates for the common classes. Please reply to me directly at billlane@comcast.net Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass S Scale PRR X29 http://www.pennsysmodels.com Production models of the REA Version arriving July 1st Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Surviving Varnish Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:50:22 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-PMX-Version: 4.6.0.99824, Antispam-Core: 4.6.0.101390, Antispam-Data: 2004.6.17.104186 X-PerlMx-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIIII, Probability=8%, Report='__TO_MALFORMED_2 0, __OIMO_MSGID 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __SANE_MSGID 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __EVITE_CTYPE 0, __CTYPE_CHARSET_QUOTED 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __CT 0, __CTE 0, __HAS_X_PRIORITY 0, __HAS_MSMAIL_PRI 0, __OIMO_MUA 0, __HAS_X_MAILER 0, __ANY_OUTLOOK_MUA 0, __HAS_OUTLOOK_IN_MAILER 0, __IN_REP_TO 0, __HAS_MIMEOLE 0, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, IN_REP_TO 0' Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The Mountain View is still here in Whippany. It's starting to look real ratty though... Rob -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Frederick Ripley Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 7:31 PM To: Jamie Bothwell; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Varnish Both 1948 Broadway observations are still > around. One is at Whippany, NJ and the other is at the RR Museum of > PA. Now that I think about it, I remember seeing "Mountain View" listed for sale a few years ago- $250,000 I think? Is this the car in NJ? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: WAMMP236@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:22:29 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Varnish The "BIRCH RIVER" resides at the Railroaders Memorial Museum in Altoona The " UNION LEAGUE CLUB" AND THE "DUQUESNE" both heavyweights are owned by the Horseshoe Curve Chapter NRHS and are stored in Altoona. Not servicable. --part1_160.30d7687f.2e036595_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" The "BIRCH RIVER" resides at the Ra= ilroaders Memorial Museum in Altoona
The " UNION LEAGUE CLUB" AND THE "DUQUESNE" both heavyweights are owned by t= he Horseshoe Curve Chapter NRHS and are stored in Altoona. Not servica= ble. --part1_160.30d7687f.2e036595_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Scott Cessna" Subject: [PRR] July 4th at the Curve Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 18:05:49 -0400 Even though it has been covered in Trains Magazine, a full-page ad in = Railpace for 2 months, the internet, and the Associated Press wire = service, the AARP radio network and associated other local media = outlets, here is an update on the Curve lighting. This time the event will last for much more than the 1/15th of a second = that the 1954 experience lasted. As a half-mile long train approaches = an otherwise darkened Curve the beams from 45: 7,000 watt searchlights, = some riding in TTX cars and some based on the ground at the visitor = center, will pierce straight up into the nighttime sky. The surrounding = hillside will begin to systematically illuminate as the locomotive = begins to trace the arc of the Curve. Section by section the entire = landscape will be revealed in a kinetic and dynamic show of lighting = power turning the hillsides red, white and blue. The interior of each = railcar will be illuminated by Sylvania HPL Ultra Plus Halogen lamps. = Additionally a string of 100 theatrically programmed strobe lights will = suggest a 2,500 foot long shimmering necklace of light. The synchronization of this event is a giant challenge of perfect timing = and must be delicately choreographed as to appear effortless in its = motion but will actually be the result of a team of well-rehearsed = people working very hard to make every detail perfect.=20 The day's agenda is a full one. Both the Museum and Curve will be open = for business as usual. There is entertainment scheduled for the Museum = yard all day including a visit from the Sylvania sponsored #29 GM = Goodwrench NASCAR entry of Kevin Harvick. Upon the Curve and Museum = closing, bus transportation to the Curve will begin. The Curve will be = filled with food and entertainment all evening as well. After remarks = from dignitaries, it will be time for the show. Our train-mounted = computerized light show will be ushered into the Curve by the live = sounds of Altoona's own Paul Winter and we are thrilled to have Paul = available to be with us for this occasion. Over 33 million lumens of = light will fill the property. With your average hardware store = flashlight pumping out a whopping 30 to 50 lumens, gather 750,000 of = your closest friends and lets see if we can begin to approach the = spectacle that will take place July 4. =20 And that's not all!! Our friends at Sylvania Lighting Services have = been busy retrofitting the landscape and buildings at the Horseshoe = Curve Visitor Center complex. New technology will adorn the facility = there making it more enjoyable not only on July 4th but for years to = come as Sylvania is graciously leaving all of those improvements behind = permanently. =20 Then to cap the evening, a fireworks show from Zambelli Fireworks = Internationale. They have certainly earned their reputation as the = First Family of Fireworks. A proud Pennsylvania company that has lit = the sky over the White House for President Kennedy, illuminated Mount = Rushmore, and have been featured at celebrations for the Statue of = Liberty and Washington Monument, they will fill the sky over Kittanning = point reservoir with the most spectacular show to ever be seen in this = area. =20 Many have said that because of the trees, the people at the Visitor = Center level will not see anything. That could not be farther from the = truth. This is not about being able to see the train. There is not = that much to see. The 7000 watt searchlights are the same type of = lights used at the World Trade Center memorial and will be pointed = straight up. The hillsides surrounding the Curve will be lit and = certainly the fireworks can be seen from anywhere. Also, If you haven't = been to the Curve in a while then you would know that the statement = about trees not being cut is untrue. The bank on the east side has been = clear-cut from the visitor center to the signal bridge and more of the = trees on our property (the big pines) are coming down. I would also remind you that if you are planning to ride or hike in to = avoid buying an admission, please do it without trespassing. Otherwise, = you may be meeting railroad, local, state and FEDERAL law enforcement = agents as an extensive list of VIPs have been invited. All are equipped = with night vision gear. Also, as I walked the access road between track = 1 and 2 today, the rattlers and copperheads in the area are quite heavy = already. Just a reminder/warning. I hope everyone will consider joining us at this once in a lifetime = event. Scott G. Cessna Executive Director Railroaders Memorial Museum Horseshoe Curve National Historic Landmark ------=_NextPart_000_0279_01C45495.B8950250 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Even though it has been covered in = Trains Magazine,=20 a full-page ad in Railpace for 2 months, the internet, and the = Associated Press=20 wire service, the AARP radio network and associated other local media = outlets,=20 here is an update on the Curve lighting.

This time=20 the event will last for much more than the 1/15^th of a second = that=20 the 1954 experience lasted. As a half-mile long train approaches an otherwise darkened = Curve the=20 beams from 45: 7,000 watt searchlights, some riding in TTX cars and some = based=20 on the ground at the visitor center, will pierce straight up into the = nighttime=20 sky. The surrounding hillside will begin to systematically illuminate as = the=20 locomotive begins to trace the arc of the Curve. Section by section the = entire=20 landscape will be revealed in a kinetic and dynamic show of lighting = power=20 turning the hillsides red, white and blue. The interior of each = railcar will=20 be illuminated by Sylvania HPL Ultra Plus Halogen lamps. Additionally a = string=20 of 100 theatrically programmed strobe lights will suggest a 2,500 foot = long=20 shimmering necklace of light.

The synchronization of this event = is a=20 giant challenge of perfect timing and must be delicately choreographed = as to=20 appear effortless in its motion but will actually be the result of a = team of=20 well-rehearsed people working very hard to make every detail perfect. =

The day=92s = agenda is a full=20 one. Both the Museum and = Curve will=20 be open for business as usual. =20 There is entertainment scheduled for the Museum yard all day = including a=20 visit from the Sylvania sponsored #29 GM Goodwrench = NASCAR entry of=20 Kevin Harvick. Upon the = Curve and=20 Museum closing, bus transportation to the Curve will begin. The Curve will be filled with = food and=20 entertainment all evening as well. =20 After remarks from dignitaries, it will be time for the = show. Our train-mounted computerized = light=20 show will be ushered into the Curve by the live sounds of=20 Altoona=92s own Paul Winter and we are = thrilled to=20 have Paul available to be with us for this occasion. Over 33 million lumens of = light will=20 fill the property. With = your=20 average hardware store flashlight pumping out a whopping 30 to 50 = lumens, gather=20 750,000 of your closest friends and lets see if we can begin to approach = the=20 spectacle that will take place July = 4.

And that=92s = not all!! Our friends at Sylvania = Lighting=20 Services have been busy retrofitting the landscape and buildings at the=20 Horseshoe Curve Visitor Center complex. New technology will adorn the = facility=20 there making it more enjoyable not only on July 4^th but for = years to=20 come as Sylvania is graciously leaving all of = those=20 improvements behind permanently.

Then to cap the = evening, a=20 fireworks show from Zambelli Fireworks Internationale. They have certainly earned = their=20 reputation as the First Family of Fireworks. A proud=20 Pennsylvania company that has lit the sky over = the White=20 House for President Kennedy, illuminated Mount = Rushmore, and have been featured at = celebrations for=20 the Statue of Liberty and Washington Monument, they will fill the sky over = Kittanning=20 point reservoir with the most spectacular show to ever be seen in this=20 area.

Many have said=20 that because of the trees, the people at the Visitor Center level will = not see=20 anything. That could not be farther from the truth. This is = not=20 about being able to see the train. There is not that much to = see. =20 The 7000 watt searchlights are the same type of lights used at the World = Trade=20 Center memorial and will be pointed straight up. The hillsides = surrounding=20 the Curve will be lit and certainly the fireworks can be seen from=20 anywhere. Also, If you haven't been to the Curve in a while then = you would=20 know that the statement about trees not being cut is untrue. The = bank on=20 the east side has been clear-cut from the visitor center to the signal = bridge=20 and more of the trees on our property (the big pines) are coming=20 down.

I = would also remind=20 you that if you are planning to ride or hike in to avoid buying an = admission,=20 please do it without trespassing. Otherwise, you may be = meeting=20 railroad, local, state and FEDERAL law enforcement agents as an = extensive list=20 of VIPs have been invited. All are equipped with night vision = gear. Also,=20 as I walked the access road between track 1 and 2 today, the rattlers = and=20 copperheads in the area are quite heavy already. Just a=20 reminder/warning.

I hope = everyone will=20 consider joining us at this once in a lifetime event.

Scott G.=20 Cessna
Executive Director
Railroaders Memorial Museum
Horseshoe = Curve=20 National Historic Landmark

------=_NextPart_000_0279_01C45495.B8950250-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Scott Cessna" Subject: [PRR] PRR Varnish Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 18:39:44 -0400 The Jacks Narrows (Spirit of St Louis) and the Harbor Springs (Broadway) = are both stored here (not serviceable) in Altoona and owned by the = Railroaders Museum.=20 Scott G. Cessna Executive Director Railroaders Memorial Museum Horseshoe Curve National Historic Landmark ------=_NextPart_000_0293_01C4549A.757D76F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

The Jacks Narrows (Spirit of St = Louis) and the=20 Harbor Springs (Broadway) are both stored here (not = serviceable) in=20 Altoona and owned by the Railroaders Museum.

Scott G. Cessna
Executive=20 Director
Railroaders Memorial Museum
Horseshoe Curve National = Historic=20 Landmark

------=_NextPart_000_0293_01C4549A.757D76F0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: k4sb@niia.net Subject: [PRR] Nice site for Surviving Varnish Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 23:12:33 -0000 From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 22:51:32 EDT Subject: [PRR] Pullman photos Some list members did not have the site come through. Here it is: http://www.ebluce.com/eblucecollection/ Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 -------------------------------1087527092 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

Some list members did not have the site come through. Here it is:=

http://www.ebluce.c= om/eblucecollection/

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS 7487
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ 2003<= /DIV> -------------------------------1087527092-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Northumberland Roundhouse Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 09:21:37 -0400 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Northumberland Roundhouse Thread-Index: AcRVNy8l1gYVz18CTvaGzHXrue7GPw== From: "Gluckman, Robert" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jun 2004 13:21:37.0967 (UTC) FILETIME=[2F6113F0:01C45537] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Anyone know where I could find good pictures of the Northumberland = roundhouse on the web? I'm trying to bring the AHM/ConCor plastic kit = closer to reality and need a good photo. Bob Gluckman ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Christopher Baker" Subject: RE: [PRR] Surviving Varnish Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 18:19:03 -0400 There are numerous Pennsylvania Railroad cars in various uses all along the Northeast Corridor. Some are operable and in use as MOW equipment while others are held stationary and used for storage. For example, there are a number of post office-baggage cars with little if any external modifications that are being used in work train service and there are several B60b baggage cars in Washington and Philadelphia that are used for material storage. There are also some PRR box cars just north of Baltimore-Penn Station that are used for material storage. Chris Baker PRRT&HS #1918 -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of WAMMP236@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 4:22 PM To: robs@actel.com; fjr@mchsi.com; vze4cs43@verizon.net; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Varnish The "BIRCH RIVER" resides at the Railroaders Memorial Museum in Altoona The " UNION LEAGUE CLUB" AND THE "DUQUESNE" both heavyweights are owned by the Horseshoe Curve Chapter NRHS and are stored in Altoona. Not servicable. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C45560.BC7D82E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

There=20 are numerous Pennsylvania Railroad cars in various uses all along the = Northeast=20 Corridor. Some are operable and in use as MOW equipment while = others are=20 held stationary and used for storage. For example, there are a = number of=20 post office-baggage cars with little if any external modifications that = are=20 being used in work train service and there are several B60b baggage cars = in=20 Washington and Philadelphia that are used for material storage. = There are=20 also some PRR box cars just north of Baltimore-Penn Station that are = used for=20 material storage.

Chris=20 Baker

PRRT&HS #1918

-----Original Message-----
From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of = WAMMP236@aol.com
Sent:=20 Thursday, June 17, 2004 4:22 PM
To: robs@actel.com; = fjr@mchsi.com;=20 vze4cs43@verizon.net; PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: Re: [PRR] = Surviving=20 Varnish

The "BIRCH RIVER" resides = at the=20 Railroaders Memorial Museum in Altoona
The " UNION LEAGUE CLUB" AND = THE=20 "DUQUESNE" both heavyweights are owned by the Horseshoe Curve Chapter = NRHS and=20 are stored in Altoona. Not servicable.=20

------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C45560.BC7D82E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Cooper" Subject: [PRR] Phila Terminal - Operating session Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 21:42:22 -0700 The Philadelphia Terminal had it's first ever operating session a few = weeks ago. I had some students over from the local technical college = and put them to work as block operators. Each operator had a DCC = throttle and handed trains off to the next operator according to DCC = address almost like the real thing. Two students worked Brill and = Arsenal, two worked Zoo, a few more watched the riverline, highline, and = mainline. We never had any crashes, but the proverbial "Hand of God" = had to lift engines off the rails just a few times. Because the = students had no familiarity with the area, we had metroliners on the = highline and freights in the upper level 30th st. But that's ok, it = just leaves room for improvement next time. As engineering students, = they were really intrigued with the operations of a busy area. If any of you just happen to be wandering around Southern Oregon, stop = in and we'll put you to work. Our listmeister has graciously uploaded some new pictures I took = recently for my webpage on KC. Have a look at = http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layouts/cooper/ John Cooper Klamath Falls, Oregon. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C4557D.232E8220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

The Philadelphia Terminal had it's = first ever=20 operating session a few weeks ago. I had some students over from = the local=20 technical college and put them to work as block operators. Each = operator=20 had a DCC throttle and handed trains off to the next operator according = to DCC=20 address almost like the real thing. Two students worked Brill = and=20 Arsenal, two worked Zoo, a few more watched the riverline, highline, and = mainline. We never had any crashes, but the proverbial "Hand of = God" had=20 to lift engines off the rails just a few times. Because the = students had=20 no familiarity with the area, we had metroliners on the highline and = freights in=20 the upper level 30th st. But that's ok, it just leaves room for=20 improvement next time. As engineering students, they were really = intrigued=20 with the operations of a busy area.

If any of you just happen to be = wandering around=20 Southern Oregon, stop in and we'll put you to work.

Our listmeister has graciously uploaded = some new=20 pictures I took recently for my webpage on KC. Have a look at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/la= youts/cooper/

John Cooper

Klamath Falls, = Oregon.

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C4557D.232E8220-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: [PRR] Freight Train Question #2 Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 12:30:35 +0000 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Thanks to everyone who answered my first question. Here's my second question to try to better represent the Pennsy on my Altoona layout: On the timetables I've seen, there don't appear to be any locals to switch the industries on the Hollidaysburg branch. For that matter, I don't see any locals eastbound or westbound either. Can someone please explain how pennsy handled this in Altoona? Thanks again. Ron ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Earl Myers" Subject: [PRR] passenger car designations Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 12:07:58 -0400 List; The CRPS has just received a huge donation of PRR documents, part of = which are passenger car drawings. The custodian of these documents wants = me to ask this group for an accurate source that can decipher what = "PDB70AR", PUW127", "PDB85R", etc., means by letter/number so they can = start to file these drawings. This collection came from a Charles Ray in = Connecticut......... Earl Myers PRRT&HS member Board Member, CRPS ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C455F6.0F5C75D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

List;

The CRPS has just received a = huge donation=20 of PRR documents, part of which are passenger car drawings. The = custodian of=20 these documents wants me to ask this group for an accurate source = that can=20 decipher what "PDB70AR", PUW127", "PDB85R", etc., means by letter/number = so they=20 can start to file these drawings. This collection came from a Charles = Ray in=20 Connecticut.........

Earl Myers

PRRT&HS member

Board Member, = CRPS

------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C455F6.0F5C75D0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 12:34:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] Working front coupler for BLI M1b? Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 12:34:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] Working front coupler for BLI M1b? From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Pennsy S Models Brass S Scale X29 Update Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 09:07:43 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, I am very happy to announce that the first group of production X29, the = REA version, is COMPLETED! If you have been putting off getting one, this is last call at the preproduction price of = $250.00 Effective July 1st the REA version will be $325.00 The preproduction = price was set over 3 years ago. We have since incurred great expense by using American made master patterns and brass = castings almost exclusively to get the high quality model we promised we would build. Freight car guru Ben Hom stated it is the best brass X29 he has ever = seen in ANY scale. Please go to my Pennsy S Models website and download the PDF order form and get your order = placed.=20 Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass S Scale PRR X29 http://www.pennsysmodels.com Production models of the REA Version arriving July 1st Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "DON MURPHY" Subject: [PRR] BLI J1 electrical issue Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 14:59:54 -0400 My BLI J1 seems to have a power pick up issue. It picks up from the right rail on the front tender truck. The engine stalls when that side of that truck comes to an unpowered Atlas #6 code 83 frog. The engine does not appear to pick up from that rail. The parts package contains two short wires. Do these wires go somewhere? Are they related to the pick up problem? Any help is appreciated. Don Murphy ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C4560E.14F7C6D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" BLI J1 electrical issue

My BLI J1 seems to have a power pick up issue. It picks up = from the right rail on the front tender truck. The engine stalls when that side of that truck comes to an = unpowered Atlas #6 code 83 frog. The engine does not appear to pick up from that = rail. = The parts package contains two short = wires. Do these wires = go somewhere? Are they related to the pick up = problem?

Any = help is appreciated.

Don = Murphy

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C4560E.14F7C6D0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 16:21:56 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J1 electrical issue MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Don, I read your post and was curious so I checked the J1 electrical pick up situation. Indeed, the lead tender truck picks up electric on the engineers side and the rear tender truck picks up electric from the firemans side. Actually, only 3 wheelsets in each truck are electrically active. The loco drivers are live on both sides. You say you stall on a #6 turnout. Are you stalling or shorting? Just want to confirm. I can't imagine you stalling as the wheelbase of the tender truck should be long enough to span the frog area. Do make sure that the outer most wheelsets in the tender trucks are the live ones. If not rearrange so they are. If you are stalling on the point, than maybe the turnout contact is wearing out. I do not know what the 2 short pieces of wires are as of yet. Have you contacted BLI?....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J1 electrical issue From: Don Murphy Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 16:40:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out010.verizon.net from [4.10.188.41] at Sun, 20 Jun 2004 15:40:46 -0500 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gary, I definatly stalled on the frog. It was an open circut. The M1a that was double headed with it kept right on trying to push it. No, I haven't contacted BLI but will email them later. I kave the boiler and tender superstructure off . I am reseting the electronics and then will trace the circut from the engineer's side of the frame to the connector and into the tender. Don On Sun, 2004-06-20 at 16:21, Gary Mittner wrote: > Don, > > I read your post and was curious so I checked the J1 electrical pick > up situation. Indeed, the lead tender truck picks up electric on the > engineers side and the rear tender truck picks up electric from the > firemans side. Actually, only 3 wheelsets in each truck are electrically > active. The loco drivers are live on both sides. > You say you stall on a #6 turnout. Are you stalling or shorting? Just > want to confirm. I can't imagine you stalling as the wheelbase of the > tender truck should be long enough to span the frog area. Do make sure > that the outer most wheelsets in the tender trucks are the live ones. If > not rearrange so they are. If you are stalling on the point, than maybe > the turnout contact is wearing out. > > I do not know what the 2 short pieces of wires are as of yet. Have > you contacted BLI?....Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work! > > PRR K4s Loco Pics: > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ > > PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > > and...... > > PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J1 electrical issue From: Don Murphy Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 17:31:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out005.verizon.net from [4.10.188.41] at Sun, 20 Jun 2004 16:31:12 -0500 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The problem was no contact on the tender end of the #6 jumper from the loco. It's the wire that carries the power from the right side of the engine. I carfully removed it's littler crimped terminal from the pastic connector from the temder end of the jupmer, fussed a bit with it and then reinstalled it. All is well now!! I will write BLI and ask for a new cable and connector set. On Sun, 2004-06-20 at 16:40, Don Murphy wrote: > Gary, > > I definatly stalled on the frog. It was an open circut. The M1a that was > double headed with it kept right on trying to push it. > > No, I haven't contacted BLI but will email them later. > > I kave the boiler and tender superstructure off . I am reseting the > electronics and then will trace the circut from the engineer's side of > the frame to the connector and into the tender. > > Don > > On Sun, 2004-06-20 at 16:21, Gary Mittner wrote: > > Don, > > > > I read your post and was curious so I checked the J1 electrical pick > > up situation. Indeed, the lead tender truck picks up electric on the > > engineers side and the rear tender truck picks up electric from the > > firemans side. Actually, only 3 wheelsets in each truck are electrically > > active. The loco drivers are live on both sides. > > You say you stall on a #6 turnout. Are you stalling or shorting? Just > > want to confirm. I can't imagine you stalling as the wheelbase of the > > tender truck should be long enough to span the frog area. Do make sure > > that the outer most wheelsets in the tender trucks are the live ones. If > > not rearrange so they are. If you are stalling on the point, than maybe > > the turnout contact is wearing out. > > > > I do not know what the 2 short pieces of wires are as of yet. Have > > you contacted BLI?....Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > > Work! > > > > PRR K4s Loco Pics: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ > > > > PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > > > > and...... > > > > PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Working front coupler for BLI M1b? Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 09:15:16 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-reply-to: <20040619193459.5517.qmail@web20022.mail.yahoo.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I left the front coupler on my M1b as a dummy by intent. It is a nice feature when I use the loco as a snapper. Not coupling on to the caboose ahead assures me that the snapper can not accidentally pull on the train. Regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Doug Kisala Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 3:35 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Working front coupler for BLI M1b? Hello list, I finally got a chance to inspect my BLI M1b. I like the engine (haven't had a chance to run it yet, so I can't comment on the sound, etc), but the front coupler is a dummy. Based on some very simple tests, the dummy coupler on the pilot mates with (but not automatically) Kadees and other knuckle couplers. Have any of you converted to working knuckle couplers on the pilot? If so, how'd you do it. Doug __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] passenger car designations Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 09:24:31 -0400 Earl, =20 I can answer 2 out of three. =20 PDB70AR is a Passenger (i.e. coach), dormitory,baggage, 70 ft, = variation "A", air conditioned, i.e. a P70 rebuild PDB85R is a Passenger, dormitory,baggage, 85 ft, variation "A", air conditioned, i.e. a combine variant of the P85b's =20 I've seen the PUW designation before, but remain unsure of its meaning. = My best guess is that it is work equipment, rebuilt from a passenger car. = But I can't begin to guess what the 127 stands for. If it was 125 I would = say it was a former PS built prewar 12 duplex room, 5 dbr sleeper. =20 regards, =20 Andy Miller =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Earl = Myers Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 12:08 PM To: PRR TALK Cc: Matt Link Subject: [PRR] passenger car designations List; The CRPS has just received a huge donation of PRR documents, part of = which are passenger car drawings. The custodian of these documents wants me to = ask this group for an accurate source that can decipher what "PDB70AR", = PUW127", "PDB85R", etc., means by letter/number so they can start to file these drawings. This collection came from a Charles Ray in = Connecticut......... Earl Myers PRRT&HS member Board Member, CRPS ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C45771.8F3431E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Message

Earl,

I can=20 answer 2 out of three.

PDB70AR is a Passenger (i.e. coach), dormitory,baggage, = 70 ft,=20 variation "A", air conditioned, i.e. a P70 = rebuild

PDB85R is a Passenger, = dormitory,baggage, 85 ft,=20 variation "A", air conditioned, i.e. a combine variant of the=20 P85b's

I've=20 seen the PUW designation before, but remain unsure of its meaning. = My best=20 guess is that it is work equipment, rebuilt from a passenger car. = But I=20 can't begin to guess what the 127 stands for. If it was 125 I = would say it=20 was a former PS built prewar 12 duplex room, 5 dbr = sleeper.

regards,

Andy=20 Miller

=20 -----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Earl=20 Myers
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 12:08 PM
To: PRR = TALK
Cc: Matt Link
Subject: [PRR] passenger car=20 designations

List;

The CRPS has just received a = huge donation=20 of PRR documents, part of which are passenger car drawings. The = custodian of=20 these documents wants me to ask this group for an accurate source = that=20 can decipher what "PDB70AR", PUW127", "PDB85R", etc., means by = letter/number=20 so they can start to file these drawings. This collection came from a = Charles=20 Ray in Connecticut.........

Earl Myers

PRRT&HS member

Board Member,=20 CRPS

------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C45771.8F3431E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] passenger car designations Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 09:47:05 -0400 My bad! =20 A PDB85R is obviously not a variation "A". The risks of cut and paste = :-( =20 regards, =20 Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Andy = Miller Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 9:25 AM To: 'Earl Myers'; 'PRR TALK' Cc: 'Matt Link' Subject: RE: [PRR] passenger car designations Earl, =20 I can answer 2 out of three. =20 PDB70AR is a Passenger (i.e. coach), dormitory,baggage, 70 ft, = variation "A", air conditioned, i.e. a P70 rebuild PDB85R is a Passenger, dormitory,baggage, 85 ft, variation "A", air conditioned, i.e. a combine variant of the P85b's =20 I've seen the PUW designation before, but remain unsure of its meaning. = My best guess is that it is work equipment, rebuilt from a passenger car. = But I can't begin to guess what the 127 stands for. If it was 125 I would = say it was a former PS built prewar 12 duplex room, 5 dbr sleeper. =20 regards, =20 Andy Miller =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Earl = Myers Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 12:08 PM To: PRR TALK Cc: Matt Link Subject: [PRR] passenger car designations List; The CRPS has just received a huge donation of PRR documents, part of = which are passenger car drawings. The custodian of these documents wants me to = ask this group for an accurate source that can decipher what "PDB70AR", = PUW127", "PDB85R", etc., means by letter/number so they can start to file these drawings. This collection came from a Charles Ray in = Connecticut......... Earl Myers PRRT&HS member Board Member, CRPS ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C45774.B6445190 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Message

My=20 bad!

A=20 PDB85R is obviously not a variation "A". The risks of cut = and paste=20 :-(

regards,

Andy=20 Miller

-----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Andy=20 Miller
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 9:25 AM
To: = 'Earl=20 Myers'; 'PRR TALK'
Cc: 'Matt Link'
Subject: RE: = [PRR]=20 passenger car designations

Earl,

I=20 can answer 2 out of three.

PDB70AR is a Passenger (i.e. coach), dormitory,baggage, = 70 ft,=20 variation "A", air conditioned, i.e. a P70 = rebuild

PDB85R is a Passenger, = dormitory,baggage, 85 ft,=20 variation "A", air conditioned, i.e. a combine variant of the=20 P85b's

I've=20 seen the PUW designation before, but remain unsure of its = meaning. My=20 best guess is that it is work equipment, rebuilt from a passenger = car. =20 But I can't begin to guess what the 127 stands for. If it was = 125 I=20 would say it was a former PS built prewar 12 duplex room, 5 dbr=20 sleeper.

regards,

Andy=20 Miller

=20 -----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Earl=20 Myers
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 12:08 PM
To: = PRR=20 TALK
Cc: Matt Link
Subject: [PRR] passenger car=20 designations

List;

The CRPS has just received a = huge=20 donation of PRR documents, part of which are passenger car drawings. = The=20 custodian of these documents wants me to ask this group for an=20 accurate source that can decipher what "PDB70AR", PUW127", = "PDB85R",=20 etc., means by letter/number so they can start to file these = drawings. This=20 collection came from a Charles Ray in = Connecticut.........

Earl Myers

PRRT&HS member

Board Member,=20 CRPS

------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C45774.B6445190-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] passenger car designations Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 08:49:02 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed On Jun 21, 2004, at 8:24 AM, Andy Miller wrote: > PDB70AR=A0 is a Passenger (i.e. coach), dormitory,baggage, 70 ft, =20 > variation "A", air conditioned,=A0 i.e. a P70 rebuild Note that the 70' length does not include the vestibule. http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=3DPDB70AR-=20 E423542.gif > PDB85R=A0=A0=A0 is a Passenger, dormitory,baggage,=A085 ft, variation = "A", air =20 > conditioned, i.e. a combine variant of the P85b's ^^^^^^^^ No, it is the initial type These cars were Budd built http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=3DPDB85R-E423540.gif= > I've seen the PUW designation before, but remain unsure of its =20 > meaning.=A0 My best guess is that it is work equipment, rebuilt from a = =20 > passenger car.=A0 But I can't begin to guess what the 127 stands for.=A0= =20 > If it was 125 I would say it was a former PS built prewar 12 duplex =20= > room, 5 dbr sleeper. I don't think so. IIRC PUW 127 is a Pullman observation converted for =20= coach use during WWII with seats for 127 workers (YIKES!). These were =20= really cramped cars... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin =20= Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-1--3123725 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Jun 21, 2004, at 8:24 AM, Andy Miller wrote: = Arial0000,0000,FFFFPDB70AR=A0 is a Passenger (i.e. coach), dormitory,baggage, 70 ft, variation "A", air conditioned,=A0 i.e. a P70 rebuild Note that the 70' length does not include the vestibule. = http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=3DPDB70AR-E423542.gi= f = Arial0000,0000,FFFFPDB85R=A0=A0=A0 is a Passenger, dormitory,baggage,=A085 ft, variation "A", air conditioned, i.e. a combine variant of the = P85b's ^^^^^^^^ No, it is the initial type < These cars were Budd built http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=3DPDB85R-E423540.gif= = Arial0000,0000,FFFFI've seen the PUW designation before, but remain unsure of its meaning.=A0 My best guess is that it is work equipment, rebuilt from a passenger car.=A0 But I can't begin to guess what the 127 stands for.=A0 If it was 125 I would say it was a former PS built prewar 12 duplex room, 5 dbr sleeper. I don't think so. IIRC PUW 127 is a Pullman observation converted for coach use during WWII with seats for 127 workers (YIKES!). These were really cramped cars... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. =20 Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-1--3123725-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 16:20:08 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "sjlash" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Newport News Shipbuilding Built Equipment Jim, Maybe and I mean a BIG maybe, they could have been for the USRA as=20 single sheath box car which I believe became the X 26 on the Pennsy. = Jim =0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: jlmcdaniel@esva.net=0D Date: 06/21/04 07:53:15=0D To: N&W Mailing List; PRR Talk; PRR-FAX=0D Subject: [PRR] Re: Newport News Shipbuilding Built Equipment=0D =0D Someone wrote:=0D =0D So far, I have found that NNS&DDCo. built a total of 5,239 rail cars,=0D including woodracks and cabs for the SAL, boxcars for PRR...=0D =0D And what would these PRR boxes be?=0D =0D Jim McDaniel, in PRR territory on Delmarva=0D =0D =0D -----------------------------------------------------------------------=0D For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.=0D =20 --------------Boundary-00=_KTDOQL80000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1"

Jim, Maybe and I mean a BIG maybe, they could have been for the USRA= as single sheath box car which I believe became the X 2= 6 on the Pennsy. Jim

-------Original Message-------

From: jlmcdaniel@esva.net

Date: 06/21/04 07:= 53:15

To: N&W Mailing List; PRR Talk; = PRR-FAX

Subject: [PRR] Re:= Newport News Shipbuilding Built Equipment

Someone wrote:

So far, I have found that NNS&DDCo. built a total of 5,239 rail = cars,

including woodracks and cabs for the SAL, boxcars for PRR...

And what would these PRR boxes be?

Jim McDaniel, in PRR territory on Delmarva

--------------------------------------------------------------------= ---

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--------------Boundary-00=_KTDOQL80000000000000-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: "'Matt Link'" , "'Earl Myers'" From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] passenger car designations Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 10:42:30 -0500 To: "'PRR TALK'" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Jun 21, 2004, at 8:49 AM, I wrote: > IIRC PUW127 is a Pullman observation converted for coach use during > WWII with seats for 127 workers (YIKES!). These were really cramped > cars... Indeed, upon further study... "P" - passenger (coach) "U" - formerly Pullman "W" - workers car There were 11 cars (#6900-6910) converted from Pullman open platform 10 section sleeper-observation cars (plans 2521, 2521A, 2521C, 2521D, 2521R). Originally the cars sat 129, but were converted to seat 127 within one month. Even more incredible were the 21 3C-2DR-lounge-observation (plans 3950, 3950C 3959) that were converted into class PUW134. These cars were specifically designed to transport factory workers on local hauls and were not supposed to get into regular service. Apparently they did and were seen both in regular and troop service. For more info on these cars and a large number of other wartime coach conversions, see Chuck Blardone's excellent article in the Summer 2001 (vol 34, no 2) Keystone. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Letha Richey" Subject: [PRR] hiListmaster Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 12:08:24 -0600 Listmaster, TOP quality software:

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----062894813589125-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 14:21:57 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 14:24:26 -0400 Resent-Message-Id: <0BA834F5-C479-11D8-B42A-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> Resent-To: PRR-Talk LIST , Reading-Talk LIST Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Subject: [PRR] TANGENT - SPAM Again From: Jerry Britton To: Conrail-Talk LIST Message-Id: <645EFD05-C479-11D8-B42A-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> Resent-From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Before the flood starts... yeah, I know! ---------------------------------------- Listmaster Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] N6 Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 21:00:48 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, I am pretty sure I already know that answer to this. I remember a PRR = convention with a great presentation on Cabin Cars. One of the facts I remember was the N6a (Lines West Extended = Cupola?) were all converted to N6b at some point. I have a N6a that I painted in Shadow Keystone before I saw this = presentation. Has anyone seen proof that a N6a made it to Shadow Keystone? Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass S Scale PRR X29 http://www.pennsysmodels.com Production models of the REA Version arriving July 1st Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:54:41 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk - off subject - Rail Data Services X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: beth capl caples Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I need to get in contact with Chuck Yungkurth of Rail Data Services. Any Information is greatly appreciated! Thanks, John Caples ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 01:59:48 EDT Subject: [PRR] BLI J1 Is anyone having problems negotiating No. 6 turnouts? Received my loco this evening and it immediately went on a friend's layout. Ran well even through double slip switches but has difficulty running into passing sidings where there are No. 6 turnouts and twelve feet between the track centers. Also, twice it went into all sound system but won't run mode and had to be reset via the "remove the jumper" routine. The layout system is Digitrax, the loco was running on the factory default settings, and both times it needed resetting were after it shorted negotiating a turnout. The drawbar was in the third hole back. After the operating session, we noticed that the steam chest had rub marks from the lead drivers. Did not notice any jerkiness or binding when running in the curves. It ran like a charm, except for those blasted decoder resets. Thank you, Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 -------------------------------1087970388 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

Is anyone having problems negotiating No. 6 turnouts? Received my= loco this evening and it immediately went on a friend's layout. Ran w= ell even through double slip switches but has difficulty running into passin= g sidings where there are No. 6 turnouts and twelve feet between the track c= enters.

Also, twice it went into all sound system but won't run mode and=20= had to be reset via the "remove the jumper" routine. The layout=20= system is Digitrax, the loco was running on the factory default settings, an= d both times it needed resetting were after it shorted negotiating = ; a turnout. The drawbar was in the third hole back.

After the operating session, we noticed that the steam chest had rub ma= rks from the lead drivers. Did not notice any jerkiness or binding whe= n running in the curves. It ran like a charm, except for those blasted= decoder resets.

Thank you,

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS 7487
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ 2003<= /DIV> -------------------------------1087970388-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk , Conrail-talk , Reading-talk From: Listmaster Subject: [PRR] TANGENT - SPAM Response Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 06:32:37 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Please do not respond (at least not "on list"). The mail server at DSOP.COM, which handles i/o of e-mail for the listserv, has been further "locked down" against SPAMmers via black list filters specifically indexed against SPAM. I watched the log file in real time last evening for several hours. I was amazed at what was stopped and saw no indications of "false positives". I'm guessing the three filters I installed cut inbound SPAM by about 80%... maybe more. (As a reference, I have identified an average of about 7,500 SPAMs a week coming into all accounts at DSOP.COM. The high had been around 9,500 -- two months ago. After 12 hours of filtering, if the current average holds, it may fall to under 500!) There was only one "exploit" that I have become aware of that has allowed SPAM to get to the lists. I am in the process of blocking that, though the filters may have already done it for me. Why am I telling you all this? Because the opportunity for "false positives" has increased. If you are receiving list mail as a legitimate subscriber but are unable to send -- and receive a sending error message (not to be confused with a bounce message from the listserv) -- please leave a message for me at Merchandise Service at 717-938-4270. Please clearly leave your e-mail address and the date and time that you attempted to send. Without this info, I cannot check the log files to see what happened. ---------------------------------------- Listmaster listmaster@dsop.com Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J1 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 08:30:20 -0400 Evan I have two BLI J-1's and have seen no difficulty with #6 switches. I = ran them through a #6 xover, still, with no difficulty. Your 12' = centers is very close, closer than my tracks, as I have the tracks on = 14.5' centers. (2") =20 Concerning the run mode problem, are you sure someone isn't accidentally = hitting F-9 a couple of time and putting the engine into = disconnect-standby? F-6 should bring the engine back to life without = going into the reset thing. As far as the wheel against the steam chest is concerned, yes this is a = problem that I posted a little while ago. The problem first occurred = after the locomotive came out of a super elevated curve. Also, it only = seemed to occur under load. I noticed that the #1 driver was lifting = and causing a jam. The #1 driver is VERY close to the steam chest. = What is happening here, is the #1 driver, when being slightly raised, = (due to entering super elevated track or just imperfect track), is = hitting the rear of the steam chest and causing the wheel to raise and = jam the mechanism. I also noticed that the driver was wearing a groove, = much like a wheel well, into the steam chest. I held down the wheels = against the steam chest and powered the engine causing the "wheel well" = to increase. This has solved the problem. Also, this problem was only = prevalent in one of the engines. =20 Hope this helps, Larry Reynolds=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RDG2124@aol.com=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 1:59 AM Subject: [PRR] BLI J1 Is anyone having problems negotiating No. 6 turnouts? Received my = loco this evening and it immediately went on a friend's layout. Ran = well even through double slip switches but has difficulty running into = passing sidings where there are No. 6 turnouts and twelve feet between = the track centers. Also, twice it went into all sound system but won't run mode and had = to be reset via the "remove the jumper" routine. The layout system is = Digitrax, the loco was running on the factory default settings, and both = times it needed resetting were after it shorted negotiating a turnout. = The drawbar was in the third hole back. After the operating session, we noticed that the steam chest had rub = marks from the lead drivers. Did not notice any jerkiness or binding = when running in the curves. It ran like a charm, except for those = blasted decoder resets. Thank you, Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 ------=_NextPart_000_006D_01C458FC.52576A80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Evan

I have two BLI J-1's and have seen no difficulty with #6 = switches. I=20 ran them through a #6 xover, still, with no difficulty. Your 12' = centers=20 is very close, closer than my tracks, as I have the tracks on 14.5' = centers. (2")

Concerning the run mode problem, are you sure someone isn't = accidentally=20 hitting F-9 a couple of time and putting the engine into=20 disconnect-standby? F-6 should bring the engine back to life = without going=20 into the reset thing.

As far as the wheel against the steam chest is concerned, yes this = is a=20 problem that I posted a little while ago. The problem = first occurred=20 after the locomotive came out of a super elevated curve. Also, it = only=20 seemed to occur under load. I noticed that the #1 driver was = lifting=20 and causing a jam. The #1 driver is VERY close to the steam=20 chest. What is happening here, is the #1 driver, when being = slightly=20 raised, (due to entering super elevated track or just imperfect track),=20 is hitting the rear of the steam chest and causing the wheel = to raise=20 and jam the mechanism. I also noticed that the driver was wearing = a=20 groove, much like a wheel well, into the steam chest. I held down = the=20 wheels against the steam chest and powered the engine causing the = "wheel=20 well" to increase. This has solved the problem. = Also, this=20 problem was only prevalent in one of the engines.

Hope this helps,

Larry Reynolds

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 RDG2124@aol.com=20

To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com

Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 = 1:59=20 AM

Subject: [PRR] BLI J1

Is anyone having problems negotiating No. 6 turnouts? = Received my=20 loco this evening and it immediately went on a friend's layout. = Ran well=20 even through double slip switches but has difficulty running into = passing=20 sidings where there are No. 6 turnouts and twelve feet between the = track=20 centers.

Also, twice it went into all sound system but won't run = mode and=20 had to be reset via the "remove the jumper" routine. The = layout=20 system is Digitrax, the loco was running on the factory default = settings, and=20 both times it needed resetting were after it shorted = negotiating a=20 turnout. The drawbar was in the third hole back.

After the operating session, we noticed that the steam chest had = rub=20 marks from the lead drivers. Did not notice any jerkiness or = binding=20 when running in the curves. It ran like a charm, except for = those=20 blasted decoder resets.

Thank you,

Evan = Leisey
RCT&HS=20 346
PRRT&HS 7487
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ=20 2003

------=_NextPart_000_006D_01C458FC.52576A80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 11:54:52 -0400 Subject: [PRR] July 4th - Harrisburg Excursion Train From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: My wife saw a blurb on WHTM TV27 (Harrisburg, Pa) this morning that there is a special train -- $50 per ticket -- that will go out onto the Rockville Bridge on July 4th and stop there, for watching the Harrisburg fireworks. I'm amazed that NS is going to let one of their tracks on the bridge be tied up for 25 minutes or so. Anyone know who is running this excursion? Bennett's equipment will be in Altoona, so it's someone else, apparently. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 11:54:52 -0400 Subject: [PRR] July 4th - Harrisburg Excursion Train From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: My wife saw a blurb on WHTM TV27 (Harrisburg, Pa) this morning that there is a special train -- $50 per ticket -- that will go out onto the Rockville Bridge on July 4th and stop there, for watching the Harrisburg fireworks. I'm amazed that NS is going to let one of their tracks on the bridge be tied up for 25 minutes or so. Anyone know who is running this excursion? Bennett's equipment will be in Altoona, so it's someone else, apparently. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <71943DE2-C54F-11D8-AB85-000A958DAD46@mail.auburn.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: "'PRR TALK'" From: Bruce Smith Subject: [PRR] Modeling the B60 and B60A (NOT B) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 14:56:40 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Good Afternoon, In a message on the Passenger Car List, John Greene indicated that BCW is aiming for a release of their B60A cars by the end of the summer. These kits will have brass sides and come in versions with and without windows. Looking at data posted by Bob Johnson, August 1, 2002, we see that the B60A was a relatively rare car: Year B60 B60A B60B 1947 316 42 551 1950 313 42 550 1953 280 39 548 1956 115 38 544 1960 86 29 534 1964 24 11 398 1967 3 3 213 1968 0 0 179 ... so where does that leave us vis a vis the B60? In looking at the tracing diagrams for the B60, B60A, and B60B some items jump out: 1) The B60 and B60A have a 3-2-3 arrangement of side panels (the B60B is 4-3-4) 2) The B60 and B60A have a sill height of 3' 7.5" The B60B has a distinctive sill height of 3' 2.5" 3) Length and width of the car, height to the top of the valence, door centers, door width, truck centers are all the same on the B60 and B60A 4) The overall height is different (all due to different roofs): 14'6" - B60 with clerestory roof 13' 6" for the B60 with round roof 14' 0.5" for the B60A with round roof (note that this is the same as the B60B) 5) The B60A had one end with a door, while the B60 had 2 "normal" ends. To me, it would appear that modeling a B60 from a B60A is extremely do-able! All you would need is a second end, and a 60' clerestory roof, and you would have another signature PRR car. BTW, I specifically asked if BCW was planning a B60 but so far no response... it sure would seem a logical spin off from the B60A, and it would fill an important hole. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] A great night out running trains Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 07:58:51 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, I go out every other Wednesday night to run on the South Jersey = rendition of the Elmira branch in S Scale. There is s good possibility this layout will be on tour for the national NMRA = convention when it comes to Philadelphia. I had another great night out last night running my trains. We were not = trying to duplicate any named train, just run what we brought. I hope to have some of my B60 completed in a month or = so. The head end will go on for miles! Here is a breakdown of the consist: 2) K4, one with sound 3) R50b 3) Bordons Milk Cars 1) Pfaudler Car 3) REA X29 These are PRODUCTION run X29 that were delivered by my = builder yesterday! It was a beautiful thing seeing 3 X29 in one train. 2) Troop cars - 1 sleeper and 1 kitchen 4) P70r coaches 5) Misc custom plastic P70 1) Plastic observation car. I pulled an 18 car train of the above cars with my K4, but it was much = more impressive to se doubleheaded. I will take some photos the next time I run this train. Finally, speaking of head end, was there a "pecking order" for the head = end cars? For instance, would milk be closer to the power with R50b next with X29 and B60 etc. They also would = have not necessarily been grouped together in like class cars, but it does look better way. I have always assumed = that they were random only in order of the pick ups and set outs along the way. Please reply to me directly for = this. Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass S Scale PRR X29 http://www.pennsysmodels.com Production models of the REA Version arriving July 1st Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Brown" Subject: [PRR] Yellow Caboose Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:22:38 -0400 Just a couple of days ago I received a Bowser PRR caboose that has a = yellow cupola. What is the significance of the yellow cupola and when = would this car have been running? Since I model the Reading RR this is = a new subject to me. What type of PRR engine would be appropriate to run at the head of a = train that was pulling this caboose? Greg Brown ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C459CC.CAD84CB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Just a couple of days ago I received a = Bowser PRR=20 caboose that has a yellow cupola. What is the significance of the = yellow=20 cupola and when would this car have been running? Since I model = the=20 Reading RR this is a new subject to me.

What type of PRR engine would be = appropriate to run=20 at the head of a train that was pulling this caboose?

Greg Brown

------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C459CC.CAD84CB0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Yellow [Cupola] Caboose Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 13:34:58 +0000 Greg Brown asked: "Just a couple of days ago I received a Bowser PRR caboose that has a yellow cupola. What is the significance of the yellow cupola and when would this car have been running?" The yellow cupola identifies a cabin car in east-west pool service. Cars in north-south pool service had gray cupolas. These appeared in the early 1960s. (I'm at work and away from my print sources and will post an exact date later this evening.) "What type of PRR engine would be appropriate to run at the head of a train that was pulling this caboose?" Any 1960s freight service locomotives, especially EFS17m (GP9) or second generation freight service units. Ben Hom --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14521_1088084098_0 Content-Type: text/html

Greg Brown asked:

"Just a couple of days ago I received a Bowser PRR caboose that has a yellow cupola. What is the significance of the yellow cupola and when would this car have been running?"

The yellow cupola identifies a cabin car in east-west pool service. Cars in north-south pool service had gray cupolas. These appeared in the early 1960s. (I'm at work and away from my print sources and will post an exact date later this evening.)

"What type of PRR engine would be appropriate to run at the head of a train that was pulling this caboose?"

Any 1960s freight service locomotives, especially EFS17m (GP9) or second generation freight service units.

Ben Hom

--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14521_1088084098_0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Newport News Shipbuilding Built Equipment Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 13:47:52 +0000 Jim Lash wrote: Maybe and I mean a BIG maybe, they could have been for the USRA as single sheath box cars which I believe became the X26 on the Pennsy. NO. The Pennsy's Class X26 boxcars were built by Pullman, AC&F, Bettendorf, and Haskell & Barker. Getting back to Jim McDaniel's original question, 1000 Class X28 automobile boxcars (PRR 28100-29099) were built by Newport News between May and November 1924. Here's a builder's photo of PRR 28100: http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?photo=PRR_28100_X28_34view.jpg&fr= Ben Hom --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_25913_1088084872_0 Content-Type: text/html

Jim Lash wrote:
Maybe and I mean a BIG maybe, they could have been for the USRA as single sheath

 box car  which I believe became the X 26 on the Pennsy.    =

-------Original Message-------=0D
 =0D
From: jlmcdaniel@esva.net=0D
Date: 06/21/04 07:53:15=0D
To: N&W Mailing List; PRR Talk; PRR-FAX=0D
Subject: [PRR] Re: Newport News Shipbuilding Built Equipment=0D
 =0D
Someone wrote:=0D
 =0D
So far, I have found that NNS&DDCo. built a total of 5,239 rail cars,=0D
including woodracks and cabs for the SAL, boxcars for PRR...=0D
 =0D
And what would these PRR boxes be?=0D
 =0D
Jim McDaniel, in PRR territory on Delmarva=0D
 =0D
 =0D

--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_25913_1088084872_0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] H32 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 11:59:59 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, Does anyone have or have you seen a photo of a H32 with the trust plate still on it in Shadow Keystone? If yes can you supply the photo or at least the car number? I am about to paint mine. Please reply to billlane@comcast.net Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass S Scale PRR X29 http://www.pennsysmodels.com Production models of the REA Version arriving July 1st Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Yellow Caboose Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 12:35:42 -0400 Starting in the late 50's the PRR changed the operating procedures for cabin cars (PRR speak for cabooses). Prior to this, each crew was assigned a caboose and it stayed with the crew almost as personal property. As a result, cabin cars had to be changed at each crew change on a train. To speed things up, the PRR instituted "pool" cabin cars. They stayed with the train and each crew took it stuff from cabin car to cabin car. These pool cabin cars were identified by a colored cupola. Cars in E-W pool service had yellow cupolas, while cars in N-S pool service had grey cupolas. I am not familiar with the exact date of this procedural change since it come after my era. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Greg Brown Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 9:23 AM To: Pennsylvania Talk Subject: [PRR] Yellow Caboose Just a couple of days ago I received a Bowser PRR caboose that has a yellow cupola. What is the significance of the yellow cupola and when would this car have been running? Since I model the Reading RR this is a new subject to me. What type of PRR engine would be appropriate to run at the head of a train that was pulling this caboose? Greg Brown ------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01C459E7.C34E69F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Message

Starting in the late 50's the PRR changed the operating = procedures for=20 cabin cars (PRR speak for cabooses). Prior to this, each crew was = assigned a=20 caboose and it stayed with the crew almost as personal property. = As a=20 result, cabin cars had to be changed at each crew change on a = train. =20 To speed things up, the PRR instituted "pool" cabin cars. They stayed = with the=20 train and each crew took it stuff from cabin car to cabin car. = These pool=20 cabin cars were identified by a colored cupola. Cars in E-W pool = service=20 had yellow cupolas, while cars in N-S pool service had grey=20 cupolas.

I am=20 not familiar with the exact date of this procedural change since it come = after=20 my era.

regards,

Andy=20 Miller

-----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Greg=20 Brown
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 9:23 AM
To:=20 Pennsylvania Talk
Subject: [PRR] Yellow = Caboose

Just a couple of days ago I received = a Bowser PRR=20 caboose that has a yellow cupola. What is the significance of = the yellow=20 cupola and when would this car have been running? Since I model = the=20 Reading RR this is a new subject to me.

What type of PRR engine would be = appropriate to=20 run at the head of a train that was pulling this caboose?

Greg = Brown

------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01C459E7.C34E69F0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 12:48:19 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Yellow Caboose From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, June 24, 2004, at 12:35 PM, Andy Miller wrote: > I am not familiar with the exact date of this procedural change since > it come after my era. Definitely after 1956. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 14:45:53 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Yellow Caboose MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, I believe the first date for the Yellow applied to a Cabin roof was March of 1961. However, this yellow was only applied to the 2 outer side sheets of the cupola. Soon after, about 1 month, another paint order came down in which it stated that the entire cupola, (roof, end and sides) were to be painted Yellow for E/W or Gray for N/S service. Check out page 102 of PRR Color Guide 3 to see N8's in both of these practices........Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Brown" Subject: Re: [PRR] Yellow Caboose Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 19:53:56 -0400 Thanks to all of you who answered my question about the yellow cupolaed = cabin car. Notice the use of correct PRR terminology after just one = posting to the sight. Greg ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bruce Smith=20 To: Greg Brown=20 Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Yellow Caboose ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C45A24.FC0E3AD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Thanks to all of you who answered my = question about=20 the yellow cupolaed cabin car. Notice the use of correct PRR = terminology=20 after just one posting to the sight.

Greg

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 Bruce=20 Smith

To: Greg Brown

Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 = 9:37=20 AM

Subject: Re: [PRR] Yellow = Caboose

------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C45A24.FC0E3AD0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 20:09:03 -0400 From: Joe Witcofsky Subject: RE: [PRR] Yellow Caboose From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Andy Miller Subject: RE: [PRR] Yellow Caboose From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Greg Brown Subject: [PRR] Yellow Caboose From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] Yellow Caboose

From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Yellow Caboose

From: "michael hmel" Subject: [PRR] TCA Convention in Pittsburgh .... Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 09:43:06 -0400 Hello List , I just wanted to remind everyone in the Pittsburgh area that the 50th = National Covention of the TCA is in town today and Saturday . Open from = 10 to 5 and 10 to 3 tomorrow . A lot of great PRR items on display in = the manufacturers area which is free to the public . Also some great = layout , with one big enough to dwarf the 50 car train pulled by two PRR = centipedes . Lastly 100 of the rarest trains in the world are on display = . All of this is free to the general public . Hope to see you there ! Thanks , Mike Hmel=20 Member : TCA , PRRT&HS Lists : PRR Talk , PC Modeling , Conrail Talk Lionel Collectors , Toytraintrading E-Mail : michaelhmel@netzero.net=20 E-bay : iron*mah =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01C45A98.D1414120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hello List ,

I just wanted to remind everyone in the = Pittsburgh=20 area that the 50th National Covention of the TCA is in town today and = Saturday .=20 Open from 10 to 5 and 10 to 3 tomorrow . A lot of great PRR items on = display in=20 the manufacturers area which is free to the public . Also some = great layout=20 , with one big enough to dwarf the 50 car train pulled by two PRR = centipedes .=20 Lastly 100 of the rarest trains in the world are on display . All of = this is=20 free to the general public . Hope to see you there !

Thanks , Mike Hmel

Member : TCA , = PRRT&HS
Lists :=20 PRR Talk , PC Modeling , Conrail=20 Talk
Lionel = Collectors=20 , Toytraintrading
E-Mail : michaelhmel@netzero.net =
E-bay :=20 iron*mah

=20

------=_NextPart_000_0087_01C45A98.D1414120-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred in Vt." Subject: [PRR] 2-10-4 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 12:00:00 -0400 The fans in Ohio are getting a holiday treat: BLI has announced the AT&SF 2-10-4 for this winter. Lots of smiles in Lines West = this Dec. list $349.00 Columbus area=20 modelers----order early!! ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C45AAB.F11D4030 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

The fans in Ohio are getting a holiday = treat: BLI=20 has

announced the AT&SF 2-10-4 for this = winter.=20 Lots of smiles in Lines West this Dec. list $349.00 Columbus area =

modelers----order=20 early!!

------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C45AAB.F11D4030-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] 2-10-4 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 12:31:34 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Jun 25, 2004, at 11:00 AM, Fred in Vt. wrote: > The fans in Ohio are getting a holiday treat: BLI has > announced the AT&SF 2-10-4 for this winter. Lots of smiles in Lines > West this Dec. list $349.00 Columbus area > modelers----order early!! Fred, These will be the 3800 series, not the 5000 series so famous for pinch hitting on the PRR. I would have loved one of the 5000's because I could use it as new, dead in tow, being delivered to AT&SF in June 1944. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-6-355828544 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII On Jun 25, 2004, at 11:00 AM, Fred in Vt. wrote: ArialThe fans in Ohio are getting a holiday treat: BLI has Arialannounced the AT&SF 2-10-4 for this winter. Lots of smiles in Lines West this Dec. list $349.00 Columbus area Arial modelers----order early!! Fred, These will be the 3800 series, not the 5000 series so famous for pinch hitting on the PRR. I would have loved one of the 5000's because I could use it as new, dead in tow, being delivered to AT&SF in June 1944. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-6-355828544-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] 2-10-4 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 15:41:39 -0400 Bruce and Fred, AFAIK the BLI locomotive is a 5001-series. The 3800's on the ATSF were = Santa Fe's (2-10-2's). The locomotives PRR leased in 1956 were of the = 5011-series. ATSF had three types of Texases, No. 5000 "Madame Queen", a = one-off, then 5001-5010, which was the large 74" driver machine, but = with a six axle tender like the 3751-series 4-8-4's. The 5011's were the = same locomotive but with the eight axle tender like the 2900-series = 4-8-4's. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bruce Smith=20 To: Fred in Vt.=20 Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] 2-10-4 On Jun 25, 2004, at 11:00 AM, Fred in Vt. wrote: The fans in Ohio are getting a holiday treat: BLI has announced the AT&SF 2-10-4 for this winter. Lots of smiles in Lines = West this Dec. list $349.00 Columbus area modelers----order early!! Fred, These will be the 3800 series, not the 5000 series so famous for pinch = hitting on the PRR. I would have loved one of the 5000's because I could = use it as new, dead in tow, being delivered to AT&SF in June 1944. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.=20 Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin = Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------=_NextPart_000_00A6_01C45ACA.E8751F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Bruce and Fred,

AFAIK the BLI locomotive is a 5001-series. The = 3800's on the=20 ATSF were Santa Fe's (2-10-2's). The locomotives PRR leased in 1956 were = of the=20 5011-series. ATSF had three types of Texases, No. 5000 "Madame Queen", a = one-off, then 5001-5010, which was the large 74" driver machine, = but with=20 a six axle tender like the 3751-series 4-8-4's. The 5011's were the same = locomotive but with the eight axle tender like the 2900-series=20 4-8-4's.

Gregg Mahlkov

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 Bruce=20 Smith

To: Fred in Vt.

Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com

Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 = 1:31 PM

Subject: Re: [PRR] 2-10-4

On Jun 25, 2004, at 11:00 AM, Fred in Vt. = wrote:

The fans in Ohio are=20 getting a holiday treat: BLI = has
announced=20 the AT&SF 2-10-4 for this winter. Lots of smiles in Lines West = this Dec.=20 list $349.00 Columbus = area
modelers----order=20 = early!!

Fred,

These = will=20 be the 3800 series, not the 5000 series so famous for pinch hitting on = the=20 PRR. I would have loved one of the 5000's because I could use it as = new, dead=20 in tow, being delivered to AT&SF in June 1944.

Happy=20 Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. =
Scott-Ritchey=20 Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850=20 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof = that God=20 loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/=20 \
__<+--+>________________\__/___=20 ________________________________
|- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ = __ __=20 __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ |=20 = ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________\|_|= ________________________________|
|=20 O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------=_NextPart_000_00A6_01C45ACA.E8751F60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 15:56:11 -0400 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] The AHM J1 tender Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hey Yuz Gize... No I refuse to take this as gospel due to the source... But, I have been told that the old AHM J1 brass tender was not correct as it's coal space was too small is this true? I was just wondering id this is true? LEt me know what you all haveheard and know to be ture... Perhaps it is true, but is it correct for another class of tender and engine. TIA Greg ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 15:56:11 -0400 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] The AHM J1 tender Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hey Yuz Gize... No I refuse to take this as gospel due to the source... But, I have been told that the old AHM J1 brass tender was not correct as it's coal space was too small is this true? I was just wondering id this is true? LEt me know what you all haveheard and know to be ture... Perhaps it is true, but is it correct for another class of tender and engine. TIA Greg ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 16:07:12 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] 2-10-4 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, This is my understanding as to what BLI is releasing regarding the Santa Fe locos. They announced 2 locomotives. the ATSF 2-10-2 and 2-10-4. The 2-10-2's are 1919 vintage and are numbered 3855, 3856 and 3876. The 2-10-4 will be the 2-10-2 that was converted to a 2-10-4 (the very first of its type) with the addition of a 4 whel trailing truck and will be numbered 3829. So, nothing good here for the PRR fan. Save your money and purchase something PRR that will no doubt be offered soon....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] 2-10-4 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 17:06:46 -0400 Are you talking about the 5011 class Santa Fe engines? Larry Reynolds ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Fred in Vt.=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 12:00 PM Subject: [PRR] 2-10-4 The fans in Ohio are getting a holiday treat: BLI has announced the AT&SF 2-10-4 for this winter. Lots of smiles in Lines = West this Dec. list $349.00 Columbus area=20 modelers----order early!! ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C45AD6.CC39D5A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Are you talking about the 5011 class = Santa Fe=20 engines?

Larry Reynolds

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Fred in = Vt.=20
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com

Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 = 12:00=20 PM

Subject: [PRR] 2-10-4

The fans in Ohio are getting a = holiday treat: BLI=20 has

announced the AT&SF 2-10-4 for = this winter.=20 Lots of smiles in Lines West this Dec. list $349.00 Columbus area=20

modelers----order=20 early!!

------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C45AD6.CC39D5A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] 2-10-4 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 18:11:50 -0400 List, Evidently I misunderstood what was being offered. Seems the ATSF had = FOUR different classes of 2-10-4's. I was familiar with the No. 5000, = "Madame Queen", built in 1930, the 5001-5010, the large wartime 2-10-4's = with 74" drivers but six wheel tender trucks, and the 5011-series, same = as the 5001-5010 but with eight wheel tender trucks.. It was the 5011 = class that PRR leased. Others have said that BLI is actually importing the 3829, a Santa fe = type that had its two wheel trailing truck replaced with an early four = wheel one for a short period a decade before Madame Queen was built.. I = still wonder, as BLI is doing the 3751-series 4-8-4, which had the same = tender and pretty much the same boiler shell as the 5001-series. Hmmm, = anyone know for sure? Gregg Mahlkov ------=_NextPart_000_01E3_01C45ADF.E3487540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

List,

Evidently I misunderstood what was being offered. = Seems the=20 ATSF had FOUR different classes of 2-10-4's. I was familiar with the No. = 5000,=20 "Madame Queen", built in 1930, the 5001-5010, the large wartime 2-10-4's = with=20 74" drivers but six wheel tender trucks, and the 5011-series, same as = the=20 5001-5010 but with eight wheel tender trucks.. It was the 5011 class = that PRR=20 leased.

Others have said that BLI is actually importing the = 3829, a=20 Santa fe type that had its two wheel trailing truck replaced with an = early four=20 wheel one for a short period a decade before Madame Queen was built.. I = still=20 wonder, as BLI is doing the 3751-series 4-8-4, which had the same tender = and=20 pretty much the same boiler shell as the 5001-series. Hmmm, anyone know = for=20 sure?

Gregg Mahlkov

------=_NextPart_000_01E3_01C45ADF.E3487540-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: [PRR] Trip to include RR Museum of PA Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 22:27:04 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry and list, I plan to attend a meeting for new Chapter Chairs of SCORE in Portland, ME, on August 17, 18 and 19. I had tentatively planned to stop in Strasburg, PA on the 16th and drive to Portland the next day, Tuesday. First, is the Museum still closed on Mondays, even in August? If so, I can probably return via Strasburg and do it Saturday. Also, the only accomodations I came up with was the Netherlands Inn in Strasburg. The website looks nice, but I'd like an unbiased opinion.. Also plan to hit the TVRM in Chattanooga and Klein's in Baltimore, but that's about all the RR'ing the better half will let me get away with. TIA for youre help, gang.. Gregg Mahlkov PRRT&HS #7418 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: [PRR] Trip to include RR Museum of PA Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 22:27:04 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry and list, I plan to attend a meeting for new Chapter Chairs of SCORE in Portland, ME, on August 17, 18 and 19. I had tentatively planned to stop in Strasburg, PA on the 16th and drive to Portland the next day, Tuesday. First, is the Museum still closed on Mondays, even in August? If so, I can probably return via Strasburg and do it Saturday. Also, the only accomodations I came up with was the Netherlands Inn in Strasburg. The website looks nice, but I'd like an unbiased opinion.. Also plan to hit the TVRM in Chattanooga and Klein's in Baltimore, but that's about all the RR'ing the better half will let me get away with. TIA for youre help, gang.. Gregg Mahlkov PRRT&HS #7418 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] H32 decals Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 12:43:49 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, Could you please search your used decal sets (who throws them away) for the Shadow Keystone (black lettering) H30 or H32. I am trying to do a specific car and I need the following: "For ash and soda loading only" "Return when empty to Bellefonte PA." I am guessing that HO would be more a appropriate size then O Scale. I actually already have "For ash and soda loading only" on my S Scale set, but figured I should try to match the size. I could use up to 4 of these decal parts if you have them. Please reply directly to billlane@comcast.net Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass S Scale PRR X29 http://www.pennsysmodels.com Production models of the REA Version arriving July 1st Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 22:03:36 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [PRR] Re: [STMFC] Re: Guns for the 30' gun flats. From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal References: <1088008734.2647.1334.m23@yahoogroups.com> <024901c45bc6$52305d10$2a02a8c0@yourivc7xrn4yf> In-Reply-To: <024901c45bc6$52305d10$2a02a8c0@yourivc7xrn4yf> Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: > > Does anyone out there have a Photo of a gun on a Flat car?? > Rich Yoder Gee, sounds a lot like the same question I asked a few days ago . Check the archives - Mike Brock posted several shots in books. In addition, I recieved a pair of photos from a list member today... After picking myself up off the floor, I studies the pictures in depth. Here is what I see: These are offciial PRR photographs, E.12740 and E12741. The two form a single long panoramic image. Shown are 3 F22 flat cars, two with a load of what appears to be a 16" 50 caliber naval rifle, without breech. The cars are numbered 435348 (note only the last three digits are visible but its the only car that fits), 925532 and 435308. Two cars have reweigh dates of 1940, the third has 9-40 specified. Repack data is not legible. The load is secured to cars 925532 and 435308 by wood pieces top and bottom, resting on a metal cradle which in turn is in the center of the span. These cradle are the same as seen at: http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?photo=PRR_435317_925527_F22_E12573_090440.jpg The breech is quite near one cradle, and the second is about 2/3 down the barrel. The end of the barrel overhangs the third car to slightly past the bolster. There is a circular band around the barrel between the cradles (there is fabric between the barrel and the band), and caps on both the breech and muzzle (along with some fabric covers). Wooden braces over the end caps and the center band are secured to the base of the cradle with heavy metal rods (one on each side of the barrel). The load is labeled DO NOT HUMP (du-uh!) on the top of the cradle on the middle car. The trucks and the cars are classic PRR with a leaf spring between two coil springs (2F-??) Car 925532 shows CAPY 190000 (all 3 cars show this CAPY), LD LMT 207700, LT WT 43300. The cars are pictured under catenary, with a GG1 coupled to the breech end. There is a factory in the background Labeled P?RRY C. WEISKITTEL CO. Does anyone have any idea where this might be (I was thinkiing either Eddystone, or Chester). Happy Rails Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 22:03:36 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [PRR] Re: [STMFC] Re: Guns for the 30' gun flats. From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal References: <1088008734.2647.1334.m23@yahoogroups.com> <024901c45bc6$52305d10$2a02a8c0@yourivc7xrn4yf> In-Reply-To: <024901c45bc6$52305d10$2a02a8c0@yourivc7xrn4yf> Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: > > Does anyone out there have a Photo of a gun on a Flat car?? > Rich Yoder Gee, sounds a lot like the same question I asked a few days ago . Check the archives - Mike Brock posted several shots in books. In addition, I recieved a pair of photos from a list member today... After picking myself up off the floor, I studies the pictures in depth. Here is what I see: These are offciial PRR photographs, E.12740 and E12741. The two form a single long panoramic image. Shown are 3 F22 flat cars, two with a load of what appears to be a 16" 50 caliber naval rifle, without breech. The cars are numbered 435348 (note only the last three digits are visible but its the only car that fits), 925532 and 435308. Two cars have reweigh dates of 1940, the third has 9-40 specified. Repack data is not legible. The load is secured to cars 925532 and 435308 by wood pieces top and bottom, resting on a metal cradle which in turn is in the center of the span. These cradle are the same as seen at: http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?photo=PRR_435317_925527_F22_E12573_090440.jpg The breech is quite near one cradle, and the second is about 2/3 down the barrel. The end of the barrel overhangs the third car to slightly past the bolster. There is a circular band around the barrel between the cradles (there is fabric between the barrel and the band), and caps on both the breech and muzzle (along with some fabric covers). Wooden braces over the end caps and the center band are secured to the base of the cradle with heavy metal rods (one on each side of the barrel). The load is labeled DO NOT HUMP (du-uh!) on the top of the cradle on the middle car. The trucks and the cars are classic PRR with a leaf spring between two coil springs (2F-??) Car 925532 shows CAPY 190000 (all 3 cars show this CAPY), LD LMT 207700, LT WT 43300. The cars are pictured under catenary, with a GG1 coupled to the breech end. There is a factory in the background Labeled P?RRY C. WEISKITTEL CO. Does anyone have any idea where this might be (I was thinkiing either Eddystone, or Chester). Happy Rails Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 21:08:42 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [STMFC] Re: Guns for the 30' gun flats. Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 07:06:08 -0400 From: Rail Classics Subject: [PRR] Rail Classics New Projects From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 07:30:30 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR sleeper lines through Cincinnati In a message dated 6/26/04 9:16:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, srj693@comcast.net writes: > Rick and List, > I purchased the book "PRR in Cincinnati" and it is a fascinating piece of > work. $50 is a bit steep for a paperback and is more than I paid for my first > PFM K-4 in 1964! > The book also does not address my first question concerning 1954. How the > 10-6 Pullman that originated on #40 arrive in Cincinnati or what became of > the 10-6 Pullman that terminated in Columbus off of #3. > Daylight Savings time was nothing to do with it. DST was started in Ohio > in 1958. > Does anyone have access to a "make up" of trains for either Cincinnai > and/or Columbus for 1954? > Thanks, > Sid > Sid, Finally I think I understand those two questions -- I'm copying Chuck Blardone and L&N expert Charlie Castner, so they can correct any mistakes I might make... My only PTT of the period is January 18, 1954 (PRR Form 1, of course). It looks like: The Nashville and Louisville 10-6's for New York arrived in Cincinnati at 4:50 pm on L&N's #8, and left on #40 for New York at 5:15 pm. #8 was not named in this period, but had once been "The Eastern Express". >From the PTT, the consist for #40 -- if it ran without a second section at this time -- should be very much like the consist shown for September 26, 1954 on page 134 of "PRR in Cincy". Then at 9:15 pm, L&N's #99, the Pan American arrived at CUT, and PRR's unnamed #202 received a Louisville-New York 8 section-5DBR Pullman along with the Memphis-New York 10-6, leaving for Pittsburgh at 11:20 pm. #202 passed through Columbus at 2 in the morning, 85 minutes ahead of #32 the St. Louisan, but its work along the way got it into Pittsburgh at 7am, giving 60 minutes for the transfer to #32, leaving for New York at 8 am. Going the other way (westbound), I don't know what happened to the 10-6 from New York that #3 dropped off in Columbus. The Penn Texas' job was to make connections with the MoPac's Eagle in St. Louis, and if this 10-6 had a westbound connection at Columbus, I haven't been able to find it. One wonders whether this car was deadheaded to Cincinnati, or if perhaps it left Columbus on an N& W pullman line. Re westbound traffic to Cincinnati and beyond, #203, the Pittsburgh connection off #33 the St. Louisan, carried two Pittsburgh-Cincinnati sleepers (a 10 sec-comp-2DBR, and an 18 roomette), but no cars for Louisville or beyond. The Cincinnati Limited #41 carried all three of the 10-6's connecting to the L&N. Arriving at 8:30 am, the NY-Louisville, NY-Nashville, and NY-Memphis sleepers left for Louisville at 9:00 on #99, L&N's Pan American. Charlie Castner points out that when traffic out of Cincinnati was very heavy, the Pan's Memphis traffic would run from CUT as Second 99, chasing the first section through Louisville and down the Main Stem as far as Bowling Green, KY. In that case, of course, the Memphis 10-6 would be separated from the other two at CUT. Personally, the assymetry of these arrangements interests me. Columbus eats one 10-6. Then Louisville was daily dispatching an 8sec-5DBR car that may not have returned via PRR. This suggests there's more to the story... And L&N fans would be quick to point out that the L&N contributed three "River" 10-6's to these Pullman lines to New York (page 151 shows the Barren River and the Green River, but not the Kentucky River). Early on, these cars were painted tuscan to match the Pennsy trains, and later repainted in L&N blue. The rest of the cars for these operations were supplied by PRR in tuscan. Mixes of PRR and L&N 10-6's on any of these trains would have been the norm. Hope this helps... Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_67.2c97f961.2e1009d6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 6/26/04 9:16:55=20= AM Eastern Daylight Time, srj693@comcast.net writes:

Rick and List,
I purchased the book "PRR in Cincinnati" and it is a fascinating piece of=20= work. $50 is a bit steep for a paperback and is more than I paid for m= y first PFM K-4 in 1964!
The book also does not address my first question concerning 1954. Ho= w the 10-6 Pullman that originated on #40 arrive in Cincinnati or what becam= e of the 10-6 Pullman that terminated in Columbus off of #3.
Daylight Savings time was nothing to do with it. DST was started in=20= Ohio in 1958.
Does anyone have access to a "make up" of trains for either Cincinnai and/= or Columbus for 1954?
Thanks,
Sid

Sid,

Finally I think I understand those two questions -- I'm copying Chuck Blardo= ne and L&N expert Charlie Castner, so they can correct any mistakes I mi= ght make...

My only PTT of the period is January 18, 1954 (PRR Form 1, of course). = It looks like:

The Nashville and Louisville 10-6's for New York arrived in Cincinnati at 4:= 50 pm on L&N's #8, and left on #40 for New York at 5:15 pm. #8 was= not named in this period, but had once been "The Eastern Express".

>From the PTT, the consist for #40 -- if it ran without a second section at t= his time -- should be very much like the consist shown for September 26, 195= 4 on page 134 of "PRR in Cincy".

Then at 9:15 pm, L&N's #99, the Pan American arrived at CUT, and PRR's u= nnamed #202 received a Louisville-New York 8 section-5DBR Pullman along with= the Memphis-New York 10-6, leaving for Pittsburgh at 11:20 pm. #202 p= assed through Columbus at 2 in the morning, 85 minutes ahead of #32 the St.=20= Louisan, but its work along the way got it into Pittsburgh at 7am, giving 60= minutes for the transfer to #32, leaving for New York at 8 am.

Going the other way (westbound), I don't know what happened to the 10-6 from= New York that #3 dropped off in Columbus. The Penn Texas' job was to=20= make connections with the MoPac's Eagle in St. Louis, and if this 10-6 had a= westbound connection at Columbus, I haven't been able to find it. One= wonders whether this car was deadheaded to Cincinnati, or if perhaps it lef= t Columbus on an N&W pullman line.

Re westbound traffic to Cincinnati and beyond, #203, the Pittsburgh connecti= on off #33 the St. Louisan, carried two Pittsburgh-Cincinnati sleepers (a 10= sec-comp-2DBR, and an 18 roomette), but no cars for Louisville or beyond.
The Cincinnati Limited #41 carried all three of the 10-6's connecting to the= L&N. Arriving at 8:30 am, the NY-Louisville, NY-Nashville, and NY= -Memphis sleepers left for Louisville at 9:00 on #99, L&N's Pan American= . Charlie Castner points out that when traffic out of Cincinnati was v= ery heavy, the Pan's Memphis traffic would run from CUT as Second 99, chasin= g the first section through Louisville and down the Main Stem as far as Bowl= ing Green, KY. In that case, of course, the Memphis 10-6 would be sepa= rated from the other two at CUT.

Personally, the assymetry of these arrangements interests me. Columbus= eats one 10-6. Then Louisville was daily dispatching an 8sec-5DBR car= that may not have returned via PRR. This suggests there's more to the= story...

And L&N fans would be quick to point out that the L&N contributed th= ree "River" 10-6's to these Pullman lines to New York (page 151 shows the Ba= rren River and the Green River, but not the Kentucky River). Early on,= these cars were painted tuscan to match the Pennsy trains, and later repain= ted in L&N blue. The rest of the cars for these operations were su= pplied by PRR in tuscan. Mixes of PRR and L&N 10-6's on any of the= se trains would have been the norm.

Hope this helps...

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_67.2c97f961.2e1009d6_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 07:30:30 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR sleeper lines through Cincinnati In a message dated 6/26/04 9:16:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, srj693@comcast.net writes: > Rick and List, > I purchased the book "PRR in Cincinnati" and it is a fascinating piece of > work. $50 is a bit steep for a paperback and is more than I paid for my first > PFM K-4 in 1964! > The book also does not address my first question concerning 1954. How the > 10-6 Pullman that originated on #40 arrive in Cincinnati or what became of > the 10-6 Pullman that terminated in Columbus off of #3. > Daylight Savings time was nothing to do with it. DST was started in Ohio > in 1958. > Does anyone have access to a "make up" of trains for either Cincinnai > and/or Columbus for 1954? > Thanks, > Sid > Sid, Finally I think I understand those two questions -- I'm copying Chuck Blardone and L&N expert Charlie Castner, so they can correct any mistakes I might make... My only PTT of the period is January 18, 1954 (PRR Form 1, of course). It looks like: The Nashville and Louisville 10-6's for New York arrived in Cincinnati at 4:50 pm on L&N's #8, and left on #40 for New York at 5:15 pm. #8 was not named in this period, but had once been "The Eastern Express". >From the PTT, the consist for #40 -- if it ran without a second section at this time -- should be very much like the consist shown for September 26, 1954 on page 134 of "PRR in Cincy". Then at 9:15 pm, L&N's #99, the Pan American arrived at CUT, and PRR's unnamed #202 received a Louisville-New York 8 section-5DBR Pullman along with the Memphis-New York 10-6, leaving for Pittsburgh at 11:20 pm. #202 passed through Columbus at 2 in the morning, 85 minutes ahead of #32 the St. Louisan, but its work along the way got it into Pittsburgh at 7am, giving 60 minutes for the transfer to #32, leaving for New York at 8 am. Going the other way (westbound), I don't know what happened to the 10-6 from New York that #3 dropped off in Columbus. The Penn Texas' job was to make connections with the MoPac's Eagle in St. Louis, and if this 10-6 had a westbound connection at Columbus, I haven't been able to find it. One wonders whether this car was deadheaded to Cincinnati, or if perhaps it left Columbus on an N& W pullman line. Re westbound traffic to Cincinnati and beyond, #203, the Pittsburgh connection off #33 the St. Louisan, carried two Pittsburgh-Cincinnati sleepers (a 10 sec-comp-2DBR, and an 18 roomette), but no cars for Louisville or beyond. The Cincinnati Limited #41 carried all three of the 10-6's connecting to the L&N. Arriving at 8:30 am, the NY-Louisville, NY-Nashville, and NY-Memphis sleepers left for Louisville at 9:00 on #99, L&N's Pan American. Charlie Castner points out that when traffic out of Cincinnati was very heavy, the Pan's Memphis traffic would run from CUT as Second 99, chasing the first section through Louisville and down the Main Stem as far as Bowling Green, KY. In that case, of course, the Memphis 10-6 would be separated from the other two at CUT. Personally, the assymetry of these arrangements interests me. Columbus eats one 10-6. Then Louisville was daily dispatching an 8sec-5DBR car that may not have returned via PRR. This suggests there's more to the story... And L&N fans would be quick to point out that the L&N contributed three "River" 10-6's to these Pullman lines to New York (page 151 shows the Barren River and the Green River, but not the Kentucky River). Early on, these cars were painted tuscan to match the Pennsy trains, and later repainted in L&N blue. The rest of the cars for these operations were supplied by PRR in tuscan. Mixes of PRR and L&N 10-6's on any of these trains would have been the norm. Hope this helps... Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_67.2c97f961.2e1009d6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 6/26/04 9:16:55=20= AM Eastern Daylight Time, srj693@comcast.net writes:

Rick and List,
I purchased the book "PRR in Cincinnati" and it is a fascinating piece of=20= work. $50 is a bit steep for a paperback and is more than I paid for m= y first PFM K-4 in 1964!
The book also does not address my first question concerning 1954. Ho= w the 10-6 Pullman that originated on #40 arrive in Cincinnati or what becam= e of the 10-6 Pullman that terminated in Columbus off of #3.
Daylight Savings time was nothing to do with it. DST was started in=20= Ohio in 1958.
Does anyone have access to a "make up" of trains for either Cincinnai and/= or Columbus for 1954?
Thanks,
Sid

Sid,

Finally I think I understand those two questions -- I'm copying Chuck Blardo= ne and L&N expert Charlie Castner, so they can correct any mistakes I mi= ght make...

My only PTT of the period is January 18, 1954 (PRR Form 1, of course). = It looks like:

The Nashville and Louisville 10-6's for New York arrived in Cincinnati at 4:= 50 pm on L&N's #8, and left on #40 for New York at 5:15 pm. #8 was= not named in this period, but had once been "The Eastern Express".

>From the PTT, the consist for #40 -- if it ran without a second section at t= his time -- should be very much like the consist shown for September 26, 195= 4 on page 134 of "PRR in Cincy".

Then at 9:15 pm, L&N's #99, the Pan American arrived at CUT, and PRR's u= nnamed #202 received a Louisville-New York 8 section-5DBR Pullman along with= the Memphis-New York 10-6, leaving for Pittsburgh at 11:20 pm. #202 p= assed through Columbus at 2 in the morning, 85 minutes ahead of #32 the St.=20= Louisan, but its work along the way got it into Pittsburgh at 7am, giving 60= minutes for the transfer to #32, leaving for New York at 8 am.

Going the other way (westbound), I don't know what happened to the 10-6 from= New York that #3 dropped off in Columbus. The Penn Texas' job was to=20= make connections with the MoPac's Eagle in St. Louis, and if this 10-6 had a= westbound connection at Columbus, I haven't been able to find it. One= wonders whether this car was deadheaded to Cincinnati, or if perhaps it lef= t Columbus on an N&W pullman line.

Re westbound traffic to Cincinnati and beyond, #203, the Pittsburgh connecti= on off #33 the St. Louisan, carried two Pittsburgh-Cincinnati sleepers (a 10= sec-comp-2DBR, and an 18 roomette), but no cars for Louisville or beyond.
The Cincinnati Limited #41 carried all three of the 10-6's connecting to the= L&N. Arriving at 8:30 am, the NY-Louisville, NY-Nashville, and NY= -Memphis sleepers left for Louisville at 9:00 on #99, L&N's Pan American= . Charlie Castner points out that when traffic out of Cincinnati was v= ery heavy, the Pan's Memphis traffic would run from CUT as Second 99, chasin= g the first section through Louisville and down the Main Stem as far as Bowl= ing Green, KY. In that case, of course, the Memphis 10-6 would be sepa= rated from the other two at CUT.

Personally, the assymetry of these arrangements interests me. Columbus= eats one 10-6. Then Louisville was daily dispatching an 8sec-5DBR car= that may not have returned via PRR. This suggests there's more to the= story...

And L&N fans would be quick to point out that the L&N contributed th= ree "River" 10-6's to these Pullman lines to New York (page 151 shows the Ba= rren River and the Green River, but not the Kentucky River). Early on,= these cars were painted tuscan to match the Pennsy trains, and later repain= ted in L&N blue. The rest of the cars for these operations were su= pplied by PRR in tuscan. Mixes of PRR and L&N 10-6's on any of the= se trains would have been the norm.

Hope this helps...

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_67.2c97f961.2e1009d6_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] F22 Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 09:14:18 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, With all the recent chatter on some of the list about F22 and gun barrel = loads, I thought I would throw this out as a freebie. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/EM-1_3_4_View.jpg It = is about 800KB so you will be able to get a sweet 8x10 from it.=20 I have other photos in this series including details. Contact me for = availability.=20 It is taking up a lot of my storage space so I am only keeping it live = for a few days. Download it now! Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass S Scale PRR X29 http://www.pennsysmodels.com Production models of the REA Version arriving July 1st Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] a little brain fade - was F22 Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 10:48:10 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, I was writing 2 emails at once and used the wrong link for the F22. Sorry! Here is the link for the F22 photo. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/F22_Side.jpg BTW, my B & O EM-1 was right out of the box when I took that photo. It has since been weathered. It runs great and will pull what ever you put behind it! Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass S Scale PRR X29 http://www.pennsysmodels.com Production models of the REA Version arriving July 1st Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "michael hmel" Subject: [PRR] Pa trolley museum excursions ..... Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 22:02:31 -0400 Hi List , I picked up some info at the TCA convention in Pittsburgh this weekend . = Its on an excursion train to the PA trolley Museum in Washington . In = the flyer it says the train is ......"expected to be powered by EMD " = FP-9 " cab unit diesel locomotive beautifully repainted in PRR = catwhiskers style paint scheme" . I can't recall an operating FP-9 in = PRR ever being mentioned on the list ! Does anyone know anything about = one ? .=20 Trips are in August from Carnegie PA and Cannonsburg PA to the Trolley = museum in Washington on the former PRR branch line along the Chartiers = Creek valley .=20 If anyone wants info its says you can go to www.pa-trolley.org or call = 724-228-9256 . Thanks , Mike Hmel =20 Member : TCA , PRRT&HS Lists : PRR Talk , PC Modeling , Conrail Talk Lionel Collectors , Toytraintrading E-Mail : michaelhmel@netzero.net=20 E-bay : iron*mah =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0088_01C45C92.71A732A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi List ,

I picked up some info at the TCA = convention in=20 Pittsburgh this weekend . Its on an excursion train to the PA trolley = Museum in=20 Washington . In the flyer it says the train is ......"expected to be = powered by=20 EMD " FP-9 " cab unit diesel locomotive beautifully repainted in PRR = catwhiskers=20 style paint scheme" . I can't recall an operating FP-9 in PRR = ever=20 being mentioned on the list ! Does anyone know anything about one ? .=20

Trips are in August from Carnegie PA = and=20 Cannonsburg PA to the Trolley museum in Washington on the former PRR = branch line=20 along the Chartiers Creek valley .

If anyone wants info its says you can = go to www.pa-trolley.org or call = 724-228-9256=20 .

Thanks ,

Mike Hmel

Member : TCA , = PRRT&HS
Lists :=20 PRR Talk , PC Modeling , Conrail=20 Talk
Lionel = Collectors=20 , Toytraintrading
E-Mail : michaelhmel@netzero.net =
E-bay :=20 iron*mah

=20

------=_NextPart_000_0088_01C45C92.71A732A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 22:34:29 -0400 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] Pa trolley museum excursions ..... Mike: Here's the homepage for the group running the FP9's... http://www.ohiocentral.com/ They do not say where they come from, but as PRR actually never had any, it isn't the Pennsy. Jeff Warner --------------050106010108010004080403 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Mike:

Here's the homepage for the group running the FP9's...

http://www.ohiocentral.com/

They do not say where they come from, but as PRR actually never had any, it isn't the Pennsy.

Jeff Warner

--------------050106010108010004080403-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Prr1187@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 23:58:40 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pa trolley museum excursions ..... The Ohio Central's FP9's were ex Canadian National / VIA engines that were completely rebuilt by VIA in 1990 with essentially GP38-2 guts, 567 prime movers with 645 liners. The electical cabinets have dash-2 style equipment. This came from an article in the December 2002 issue of Railpace Newsmagazine. Regards, Dennis Sautters Canton, OH -------------------------------1088395119 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

The Ohio Central's FP9's were ex Canadian National / VIA engines that w= ere completely rebuilt by VIA in 1990 with essentially GP38-2 guts, 567 prim= e movers with 645 liners. The electical cabinets have dash-2 style equ= ipment. This came from an article in the December 2002 issue of Railpa= ce Newsmagazine.

Regards,

Dennis Sautters

Canton, OH

-------------------------------1088395119-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] PRR sleeper lines through Cincinnati Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:57:14 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <67.2c97f961.2e1009d6@aol.com> Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: -----Original Message----- From: RickTipton@aol.com=20 . . .=20 And L&N fans would be quick to point out that the L&N contributed three=20 "River" 10-6's to these Pullman lines to New York (page 151 shows the = Barren River=20 and the Green River, but not the Kentucky River). Early on, these cars = were painted tuscan to match the Pennsy trains, and later repainted in L&N = blue. The rest of the cars for these operations were supplied by PRR in = tuscan. Mixes=20 of PRR and L&N 10-6's on any of these trains would have been the norm. ------------------- Rick (or anyone who knows), Do you know at what date the L&N repainted the RIVER cars from PRR red = to L&N blue? Regards, Andy Miller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Pa trolley museum excursions ..... Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:07:30 -0400 Here's a photo of the locos. They are definitely NOT PRR. They have a freight pilot, and they are painted the DGLE. The PRR FP7s in 5-stripe = were painted Tuscan. But their heart is in the right place ;-) =20 =20 http://www.ocsteam.com/photos/f-tindall.jpg -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Jeff = Warner Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2004 10:34 PM To: michael hmel Cc: PRR-Talk list Subject: Re: [PRR] Pa trolley museum excursions ..... Mike: Here's the homepage for the group running the FP9's... http://www.ohiocentral.com/ They do not say where they come from, but as PRR actually never had any, = it isn't the Pennsy. Jeff Warner=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C45CEF.577D8700 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message

Here's=20 a photo of the locos. They are definitely NOT PRR. They have = a=20 freight pilot, and they are painted the DGLE. The PRR FP7s in = 5-stripe=20 were painted Tuscan. But their heart is in the right place=20 ;-)

http://www.ocsteam.c= om/photos/f-tindall.jpg

-----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Jeff=20 Warner
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2004 10:34 PM
To: = michael=20 hmel
Cc: PRR-Talk list
Subject: Re: [PRR] Pa = trolley=20 museum excursions .....

Mike:

Here's the = homepage=20 for the group running the FP9's...

http://www.ohiocentral.com/
<= BR>They=20 do not say where they come from, but as PRR actually never had any, it = isn't=20 the Pennsy.

Jeff Warner=20

------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C45CEF.577D8700-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "SID JOHNSON" Subject: [PRR] RE: PRR sleeper lines through Cincinnati Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:44:51 -0400 Chuck, Thank you for the reply. Please remember that the Columbus 10-6 was on #3 not #41. #41 passed thru Columbus about 2 1/2 hours AHEAD of #3. It also does not explain the fact that the Columbus 10-6 could be either a PRR or a N&W car. The path to the truth may be found if anyone could find either the disposition of car 39 at Columbus or the source of car 404 at Cincinnati. Sid -----Original Message----- From: Charles Blardone, Jr. [mailto:blardone@redrose.net] Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 9:26 AM To: srj693@comcast.net Cc: RickTipton@aol.com; lnrr@yahoogroups.com; PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com; PRR@yahoogroups.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com; chascastner@earthlink.net; Chapbob@aol.com Subject: Re: PRR sleeper lines through Cincinnati Sid: Without my spreading all sorts of documents on the table and trying to trace the westbound 10-6, perhaps you already have the answer. If the car made it Columbus westbound, it may have deadheaded in the consist of #41 the rest of the way. The PRR usually didn't list DH cars in its consist books, since space wasn't available on the car. Chuck Blardone SID JOHNSON wrote: Rick and Friends, The source for my question about the 10-6 situation can be found on Page 134 of "PRR in Cincinnati" and also PTT of the time. Note that #40 had a 10-6 originating in Cincinnati as car 404. Also note that #41 did NOT have a 10-6 that terminated in Cincinnati, only the ones connecting to the L&N. Thank you and Charlie for the L&N info. Charlie can tell you how far he and I go back! 39 years is about right. Another situation exists in the PTT of the time. #3, the Penn Texas, had a 10-6 that terminated in Columbus and I can find no listing for ANY 10-6 leaving to any PRR destination.. At this point I purchased CD ROM #4 by Jerry Briton. Its a great source of detailed info of PRR for 1954. On the CD there is a section on Passenger operations. Within that section is a listing called "Make up of trains New York Division #7". Yep, there was a Car #404 10-6 arriving on #40. Note this car turns to #3 for Columbus as car #39. Now look at the "assigned" Pullman section at the end. It notes that car #39 on #3 turns from Car #404 off of #40. Note...This 10-6 can be either a PRR car or N&W car. The big question is how did the PRR get a 10-6 Pullman from the N&W to cover car #404 on #40? Did the 10-6 at Columbus from #3 go to the N&W? Maybe some your N&W friends can shed so light. As an aside, its interesting that the equipment off of #32 turned to #67, same day at New York. The same thing happened with #66's equipment turning to #33. That saved the PRR one whole set of equipment to protect both the American and the St. Louisan! Sid PS: Now that I've typed this note its pretty evident why on the L&N we call Cincinnati just T-110. Sure saved a lot of typing!!! Rick and List, I purchased the book "PRR in Cincinnati" and it is a fascinating piece of work. $50 is a bit steep for a paperback and is more than I paid for my first PFM K-4 in 1964! The book also does not address my first question concerning 1954. How the 10-6 Pullman that originated on #40 arrive in Cincinnati or what became of the 10-6 Pullman that terminated in Columbus off of #3. Daylight Savings time was nothing to do with it. DST was started in Ohio in 1958. Does anyone have access to a "make up" of trains for either Cincinnati and/or Columbus for 1954? Thanks, Sid Sid, Finally I think I understand those two questions -- I'm copying Chuck Blardone and L&N expert Charlie Castner, so they can correct any mistakes I might make... My only PTT of the period is January 18, 1954 (PRR Form 1, of course). It looks like: The Nashville and Louisville 10-6's for New York arrived in Cincinnati at 4:50 pm on L&N's #8, and left on #40 for New York at 5:15 pm. #8 was not named in this period, but had once been "The Eastern Express". From the PTT, the consist for #40 -- if it ran without a second section at this time -- should be very much like the consist shown for September 26, 1954 on page 134 of "PRR in Cincy". Then at 9:15 pm, L&N's #99, the Pan American arrived at CUT, and PRR's unnamed #202 received a Louisville-New York 8 section-5DBR Pullman along with the Memphis-New York 10-6, leaving for Pittsburgh at 11:20 pm. #202 passed through Columbus at 2 in the morning, 85 minutes ahead of #32 the St. Louisan, but its work along the way got it into Pittsburgh at 7am, giving 60 minutes for the transfer to #32, leaving for New York at 8 am. Going the other way (westbound), I don't know what happened to the 10-6 from New York that #3 dropped off in Columbus. The Penn Texas' job was to make connections with the MoPac's Eagle in St. Louis, and if this 10-6 had a westbound connection at Columbus, I haven't been able to find it. One wonders whether this car was deadheaded to Cincinnati, or if perhaps it left Columbus on an N&W Pullman line. Re westbound traffic to Cincinnati and beyond, #203, the Pittsburgh connection off #33 the St. Louisan, carried two Pittsburgh-Cincinnati sleepers (a 10 sec-comp-2DBR, and an 18 roomette), but no cars for Louisville or beyond. The Cincinnati Limited #41 carried all three of the 10-6's connecting to the L&N. Arriving at 8:30 am, the NY-Louisville, NY-Nashville, and NY-Memphis sleepers left for Louisville at 9:00 on #99, L&N's Pan American. Charlie Castner points out that when traffic out of Cincinnati was very heavy, the Pan's Memphis traffic would run from CUT as Second 99, chasing the first section through Louisville and down the Main Stem as far as Bowling Green, KY. In that case, of course, the Memphis 10-6 would be separated from the other two at CUT. Personally, the asymmetry of these arrangements interests me. Columbus eats one 10-6. Then Louisville was daily dispatching an 8sec-5DBR car that may not have returned via PRR. This suggests there's more to the story... And L&N fans would be quick to point out that the L&N contributed three "River" 10-6's to these Pullman lines to New York (page 151 shows the Barren River and the Green River, but not the Kentucky River). Early on, these cars were painted tuscan to match the Pennsy trains, and later repainted in L&N blue. The rest of the cars for these operations were supplied by PRR in tuscan. Mixes of PRR and L&N 10-6's on any of these trains would have been the norm. Hope this helps... Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C45CF4.8F0B8910 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

Chuck,

Thank you for the reply. = Please=20 remember that the Columbus 10-6 was on #3 not #41. #41 passed thru = Columbus about 2 1/2 hours AHEAD of #3. It also does not explain = the fact=20 that the Columbus 10-6 could be either a PRR or a N&W = car.

The path to the truth may be found = if anyone=20 could find either the disposition of car 39 at Columbus or the source of = car 404=20 at Cincinnati.

Sid

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Blardone, = Jr.=20 [mailto:blardone@redrose.net]
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 = 9:26=20 AM
To: srj693@comcast.net
Cc: RickTipton@aol.com;=20 lnrr@yahoogroups.com; PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com; PRR@yahoogroups.com; = PRR-Talk@dsop.com; chascastner@earthlink.net;=20 Chapbob@aol.com
Subject: Re: PRR sleeper lines through=20 Cincinnati

Sid:

Without my spreading all = sorts of=20 documents on the table and trying to trace the westbound 10-6, perhaps = you=20 already have the answer. If the car made it Columbus westbound, = it may=20 have deadheaded in the consist of #41 the rest of the way. The = PRR=20 usually didn't list DH cars in its consist books, since space = wasn't=20 available on the car.

Chuck Blardone

SID JOHNSON = wrote:

Rick and Friends,

The source for my question about the 10-6 situation can be = found on=20 Page 134 of "PRR in Cincinnati" and also PTT of the = time. =20 Note that #40 had a 10-6 originating in Cincinnati as car 404. = Also=20 note that #41 did NOT have a 10-6 that terminated in Cincinnati, = only the=20 ones connecting to the L&N. Thank you and Charlie for the = L&N=20 info. Charlie can tell you how far he and I go back! 39 = years is=20 about right.

Another situation exists in the PTT of the time. #3, = the Penn=20 Texas, had a 10-6 that terminated in Columbus and I = can find=20 no listing for ANY 10-6 leaving to any PRR destination.. At = this point=20 I purchased CD ROM #4 by Jerry Briton. Its a great source of = detailed=20 info of PRR for 1954.

On the CD there is a section on Passenger operations. = Within=20 that section is a listing called "Make up of trains New York = Division=20 #7". Yep, there was a Car #404 10-6 arriving on #40. = Note this=20 car turns to #3 for Columbus as car #39. Now look at the = "assigned"=20 Pullman section at the end. It notes that car #39 on #3 turns = from Car=20 #404 off of #40. Note...This 10-6 can be either a PRR = car or=20 N&W car. The big question is how did = the PRR=20 get a 10-6 Pullman from the N&W to cover car #404 on=20 #40? Did the 10-6 at Columbus from #3 go to the N&W? = Maybe=20 some your N&W friends can shed so = light.

As=20 an aside, its interesting that the equipment off of #32 turned to = #67, same=20 day at New York. The same thing happened with #66's equipment = turning=20 to #33. That saved the PRR one whole set of equipment to = protect both=20 the American and the St. Louisan!

Sid

PS: Now that I've typed this note its pretty evident = why on the=20 L&N we call Cincinnati just T-110. Sure saved a lot of=20 typing!!!

Rick and=20 List,
I = purchased the=20 book "PRR in Cincinnati" and it is a fascinating piece of = work. =20 $50 is a bit steep for a paperback and is more than I paid for = my first=20 PFM K-4 in 1964!
The=20 book also does not address my first question concerning = 1954. How=20 the 10-6 Pullman that originated on #40 arrive in Cincinnati or = what=20 became of the 10-6 Pullman that terminated in Columbus off of=20 #3.
Daylight Savings=20 time was nothing to do with it. DST was started in Ohio in = 1958.
Does anyone have=20 access to a "make up" of trains for either Cincinnati and/or = Columbus=20 for 1954?
Thanks,
Sid

Sid,

Finally I=20 think I understand those two questions -- I'm copying Chuck = Blardone and=20 L&N expert Charlie Castner, so they can correct any mistakes I = might=20 make...

My only PTT of the period is January 18, 1954 (PRR = Form 1,=20 of course). It looks like:

The Nashville and = Louisville=20 10-6's for New York arrived in Cincinnati at 4:50 pm on L&N's = #8, and=20 left on #40 for New York at 5:15 pm. #8 was not named in = this=20 period, but had once been "The Eastern Express".

From the = PTT, the=20 consist for #40 -- if it ran without a second section at this time = --=20 should be very much like the consist shown for September 26, 1954 = on page=20 134 of "PRR in Cincy".

Then at 9:15 pm, L&N's #99, the = Pan=20 American arrived at CUT, and PRR's unnamed #202 received a = Louisville-New=20 York 8 section-5DBR Pullman along with the Memphis-New York 10-6, = leaving=20 for Pittsburgh at 11:20 pm. #202 passed through Columbus at = 2 in the=20 morning, 85 minutes ahead of #32 the St. Louisan, but its work = along the=20 way got it into Pittsburgh at 7am, giving 60 minutes for the = transfer to=20 #32, leaving for New York at 8 am.

Going the other way = (westbound),=20 I don't know what happened to the 10-6 from New York that #3 = dropped off=20 in Columbus. The Penn Texas' job was to make connections = with the=20 MoPac's Eagle in St. Louis, and if this 10-6 had a westbound = connection at=20 Columbus, I haven't been able to find it. One wonders = whether this=20 car was deadheaded to Cincinnati, or if perhaps it left Columbus = on an=20 N&W Pullman line.

Re westbound traffic to Cincinnati = and=20 beyond, #203, the Pittsburgh connection off #33 the St. Louisan, = carried=20 two Pittsburgh-Cincinnati sleepers (a 10 sec-comp-2DBR, and an 18=20 roomette), but no cars for Louisville or beyond.

The = Cincinnati=20 Limited #41 carried all three of the 10-6's connecting to the=20 L&N. Arriving at 8:30 am, the NY-Louisville, = NY-Nashville, and=20 NY-Memphis sleepers left for Louisville at 9:00 on #99, L&N's = Pan=20 American. Charlie Castner points out that when traffic out = of=20 Cincinnati was very heavy, the Pan's Memphis traffic would run = from CUT as=20 Second 99, chasing the first section through Louisville and down = the Main=20 Stem as far as Bowling Green, KY. In that case, of course, = the=20 Memphis 10-6 would be separated from the other two at=20 CUT.

Personally, the asymmetry of these arrangements = interests=20 me. Columbus eats one 10-6. Then Louisville was daily=20 dispatching an 8sec-5DBR car that may not have returned via = PRR. =20 This suggests there's more to the story...

And L&N fans = would=20 be quick to point out that the L&N contributed three "River" = 10-6's to=20 these Pullman lines to New York (page 151 shows the Barren River = and the=20 Green River, but not the Kentucky River). Early on, these = cars were=20 painted tuscan to match the Pennsy trains, and later repainted in = L&N=20 blue. The rest of the cars for these operations were = supplied by PRR=20 in tuscan. Mixes of PRR and L&N 10-6's on any of these = trains=20 would have been the norm.

Hope this = helps...

Rick=20 Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical = &=20 Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and = especially=20 PRR Lines West=20

------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C45CF4.8F0B8910-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "'PRR TALK'" From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [STMFC] Re: Guns for the 30' gun flats. Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:50:16 -0500 To: robert netzlof X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Jun 26, 2004, at 11:08 PM, robert netzlof wrote: > --- smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu wrote: > >> There is a factory in the background Labeled P?RRY C. >> WEISKITTEL CO. >> Does anyone have any idea where this might be (I was thinkiing >> either Eddystone, or Chester). > > 1945 CT1000E, pg 108, Maryland Division, on the Union RR of > Baltimore: > > Henry C. Weiskittel & Co. Inc. at 3.6 miles from the Baltimore > Passenger Station (and about 0.7 miles from Canton Jct.), right in > with Continental Can Co., Orangeville Shops of NCR, and Bay View, Md. Bob, Close... but while the "P" is subject to interpretation, and the "E" is completely blocked by a catenary pole, the "RRY" is clear as can be meaning it can't be "HENRY". Bummer! Baltimore would be an interesting location. I'm still chasing the information down, but it appears that Watervliet Arsenal south of Albany NY was the possible site of manufacture for these guns. The Iowa class BBs were all built in New York (no PRR connection) or Philadelphia Naval Yard (no Baltimore transit). The other possibility is that the rifles are 16"/45 caliber guns for the South Dakota, built at Camden NJ, or the South Dakota class Indiana or Alabama, built at Newport News and Norfolk Navy Yard respectively, or the North Carolina class ship Washington, built at the Philadelphia Navy Yard at around this time. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Pete Reinhold" Subject: [PRR] Rail Classics X30 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:37:00 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <000001c45c36$bf8a5580$a379ba18@eddy> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Thread-Index: AcRcN/69IAc2RPRFRjeN3I9LNdlOBQBBntWg Message-Id: <20040628183706.ZLAX9899.mm-ismta3.bizmailsrvcs.net@pete> Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, I haven't heard about the Rail Classics PRR X30 in some time. Has this been canceled? Pete Reinhold ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 14:49:29 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Rail Classics X30 From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Monday, June 28, 2004, at 02:37 PM, Pete Reinhold wrote: > List, > > I haven't heard about the Rail Classics PRR X30 in some time. Has > this > been canceled? No, just slow. Unlike the larger brass importers, Rail Classics seems to only have one project actually in production at a time. On the X30, they were trying to get plans for a fire engine to go with it. (Since it was used to transport them.) The business cars have also been back-burnered for some time. Very frustrating. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Cprrboss@aol.com Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:03:12 EDT Subject: [PRR] Railroad Museum of PA To whoever inquired about the days of operation of the Railroad Museum of PA. Yes, the Railroad Museum of PA is open on Mondays April through October! I was just there on a Monday about 3 weeks ago. Also, check out their website at: http://www.rrmuseumpa.org/visitors/calendar.htm for hours of operation and other information. The museum is closed Mondays November through March. BOB MARTIN, President & Superintendent Central Pennsylvania Railroad (CPRR) (HO Scale) A Penn Family Line --part1_59.f706326.2e11fdb0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" To whoever inquired about the days of oper= ation of the Railroad Museum of PA.

Yes, the Railroad Museum of PA is open on Mondays April through October!= I was just there on a Monday about 3 weeks ago. Also, check out= their website at: http://www.rrmuseumpa.org/visitors/cale= ndar.htm for hours of operation and other information. The museum is c= losed Mondays November through March.

BOB MARTIN, President & Superintendent
Central Pennsylvania Railroad (CPRR) (HO Scale<= /FONT>= )
A Penn Family Line

--part1_59.f706326.2e11fdb0_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Tower Colors Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:10:10 -0400 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: PRR-Talk Digest - 06/25/04 Thread-Index: AcRac0JWOGfsmjleQwSUs7Xh2vUYSAC8XMFQ From: "Drye, John" To: "PRR-Talk" Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: A careful review of several color books on the Pennsy suggests that = towers were painted in the two-tone grey scheme in the late 40s and = early 50s and that the tan and brown scheme came into use in the 50s. = Can anyone confirm this conclusion and provide a date for the = changeover? Thanks, John Drye Modeling Williamsport ca 1956 in N scale ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gatwood, Elden -- Tt, Inc." Subject: RE: [PRR] Rail Classics X30 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 16:12:07 -0700 From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Subject: Re: [PRR] Rail Classics X30 RE: [PRR] Rail Classics X30

Group;

As Eddy may have explained, there have been some = other intervening products that had perhaps a larger interest = base. Witness the water columns and tanks.

I would also have to say that definitive interest = always ensures manufacturer resources. If few folks reserve and = commit on the X30, then there may be little financial support to = complete that project, despite the obvious interest by Eddy and some = others.

Given Eddy's track record with his products (which is = quality-oriented), and his attention to detail (which requires detailed = plans to implement), these periodic requests for information are = important. If anyone can help him out, it may mean a product = getting done; if not....

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On = Behalf Of Jerry Britton
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 11:49 AM
To: preinhol@unidie.com
Cc: 'PRR Talk'
Subject: Re: [PRR] Rail Classics X30

On Monday, June 28, 2004, at 02:37 PM, Pete = Reinhold wrote:

> List,
>
> I haven't heard about the = Rail Classics PRR X30 in some time. Has
> this
> been canceled?

No, just slow. Unlike the larger brass importers, = Rail Classics seems
to only have one project actually in production at a = time.

On the X30, they were trying to get plans for a fire = engine to go with
it. (Since it was used to transport them.)

The business cars have also been back-burnered for = some time.

Very frustrating.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF   Member, = PRRT&HS
Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N = Scale.
"Keystone Crossings" - Home of the = "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
     http://kc.pennsyrr.com
"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad = products...
     http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com

---------------------------------------------------------------= --------
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C45D65.55022320-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 07:28:04 EDT Subject: [PRR] L2s in Cincinnati In a message dated 6/28/04 12:09:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > Chris: > > The PRR did not own, at any time, any locos referred to as the USRA "HEAVY" > mikados. I also believe (strongly) that they never "used" any of those > locos > either. They did, however own some (5 I think) of the USRA "LIGHT" mikados. > > They were all used in the Lines West portion of the system. I don't recall, > as > I write this, just what division they called "home". > > > ceh On the Cincinnati Division; all 5 were assigned to Pendleton. We put details and photos in The Pennsylvania Railroad in Cincinnati, available at prrths.com. Rick Tipton --part1_11.2d113cc9.2e12ac44_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 6/28/04 12:09:53= PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes:

Chris:

The PRR did not own, at any time, any locos referred to as the USRA "HEAVY"=20=
mikados. I also believe (strongly) that they never "used" any of those= locos
either. They did, however own some (5 I think) of the USRA "LIGHT" mik= ados.
They were all used in the Lines West portion of the system. I don't re= call, as
I write this, just what division they called "home".

<snip>

ceh

On the Cincinnati Division; all 5 were assigned to Pendleton. We put d= etails and photos in The Pennsylvania Railroad in Cincinnati, availab= le at prrths.com.

Rick Tipton
--part1_11.2d113cc9.2e12ac44_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 07:28:13 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] Digest Number 1750 In a message dated 6/28/04 12:09:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:57:14 -0400 > From: "Andy Miller" > Subject: RE: PRR sleeper lines through Cincinnati > > -----Original Message----- > From: RickTipton@aol.com > . . . > > And L&N fans would be quick to point out that the L&N contributed three > "River" 10-6's to these Pullman lines to New York (page 151 shows the Barren > River > and the Green River, but not the Kentucky River). Early on, these cars were > > painted tuscan to match the Pennsy trains, and later repainted in L&N blue. > > The rest of the cars for these operations were supplied by PRR in tuscan. > Mixes > of PRR and L&N 10-6's on any of these trains would have been the norm. > ------------------- > > > Rick (or anyone who knows), > > Do you know at what date the L&N repainted the RIVER cars from PRR red to > L&N blue? > > Regards, > > Andy Miller Actually I don't. There's some indirect evidence -- see page 150 of the Cincinnati book -- Barren River is still in tuscan on April 14, 1963. This is a James J.D. Lynch photo. Also, Chuck Blardone talks about the end of through Pullman services on page 128. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_20.2d1b4349.2e12ac4d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 6/28/04 12:09:53= PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes:

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:57:14 -0400
From: "Andy Miller" <asmiller@mitre.org>
Subject: RE: PRR sleeper lines through Cincinnati

-----Original Message-----
From: RickTipton@aol.com
. . .

And L&N fans would be quick to point out that the L&N contributed th= ree
"River" 10-6's to these Pullman lines to New York (page 151 shows the Barren=
River
and the Green River, but not the Kentucky River). Early on, these cars= were

painted tuscan to match the Pennsy trains, and later repainted in L&N bl= ue.

The rest of the cars for these operations were supplied by PRR in tuscan. Mixes
of PRR and L&N 10-6's on any of these trains would have been the norm. -------------------

Rick (or anyone who knows),

Do you know at what date the L&N repainted the RIVER cars from PRR red t= o
L&N blue?

Regards,

Andy Miller

Actually I don't. There's some indirect evidence -- see page 150 of th= e Cincinnati book -- Barren River is still in tuscan on April 14, 1963. = ; This is a James J.D. Lynch photo.

Also, Chuck Blardone talks about the end of through Pullman services on page= 128.

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_20.2d1b4349.2e12ac4d_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] F22 download/spyware Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 08:20:59 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, I am sending this post at the risk of being put in the penalty box by = Mike and Jerry. Armin was the first person to make me aware of the possible issue. I installed the Ad Aware 6. = http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail/965718306/1 I found no hits on my external G hard drive that I store all my photos. I = am not an expert, but how I could have picked up something going directly from that drive to my Comcast = internet space is beyond me. I also checked all the files in my internet space including that F22 photo and found = nothing. The difficulty in downloading could have come from many users hitting it for the download at the same time. It is = only Comcast, not a website. I run Spybot once a week thinking that was good. If there were any = hidden nasties in that photo it was definitely not intentional. I have been using my laptop that I bought used a year = ago full time for the past month while my desktop is a little sick. That will hopefully be back in service by = Thursday. What I found on the laptop hard drive were cookies and have corrected them. I never had so much trouble giving away something that I bought! Of = course keep any replies and comments on this subject directly to me. Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass S Scale PRR X29 http://www.pennsysmodels.com Production models of the REA Version arriving July 1st Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Curve picture on the Fourth Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 14:24:09 +0000 Cc: "'PRR TALK'" , dgurin@erols.com From: Bruce Smith

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Joe=20 Witcofsky
To: 'Bruce Smith' ; 'PRR-Talk = TALK''=20

Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 = 10:28=20 PM

Subject: RE: [PRR] Pass-through = USRA=20 engines and PRR's "internal standardization"

Last=20 year while visiting Pensacola, = FL, I = observed a=20 preserved steam locomotive in the middle of the main street through = town,=20 enroute from Pensacola beach to = the NAS. I=20 believe it was a 2-8-2 and had a = FRISCO=20 emblem under the headlight, which was lit at night. This sort of = surprised me,=20 and I failed to note the number or get any photos. Could this be = the=20 other?

jw

------=_NextPart_000_0107_01C45EF9.03620680-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <20209D7F-E09C-11D8-AD9F-000A95C04372@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Passenger Car Roofs Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 09:43:36 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-LR-SENT-TO: dsop.com Let's split hairs here on the subject of passenger car roofs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but let's assume all cars built 1938 and following had "streamline" roofs. And I think we all understand the early "clerestory" roofs. But let's talk about "balloon" vs. "arch" vs. "round" roofs. Are they synonymous? If not, how would you characterize each? I think of the B60b as having a "balloon" roof. I think it's taller than some other round (generically used here) roofs. Is the "arch" roof synonymous with a"round" roof, except that it has squared ends? (Examples: P70GS or P70K.) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <20209D7F-E09C-11D8-AD9F-000A95C04372@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Passenger Car Roofs Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 09:43:36 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Sender: Precedence: List List-Software: LetterRip Pro 4.04 by LetterRip Software, LLC. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C45C45.1F513110-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Layout Room Paint Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 14:59:51 -0400 From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Subject: [PRR] Layout Room Paint RE: [PRR] Layout Room Paint

Jerry,

I took a DGLE color card to my local Tru-value and = they made a batch of Benjamin Moore DGLE. I painted it on = Hardboard (masonite) over a white primer and its a dead on match. = The dark color helps high-lite the layout.

Chris Chany

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com]=
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:03 AM
To: PRR-Talk LIST
Subject: [PRR] Layout Room Paint

Would there be any interest with the modelers out = there in having the
PRRT&HS paint committee work with a national = chain -- such as Home
Depot -- to come up with a formulary for Dark Green = Locomotive Enamel
and/or Tuscan Red?

No, I'm not trying to pile work on them, but if = enough people want
decent matches for painting wood in their layout = rooms, perhaps a
standard would be in order so we don't all have to = recreate the wheel.

I've decided DGLE would probably be too dark for the = fascia, but would
work for legs and other lower level benchwork. Then = again, I could just
use black.

I am considering Tuscan Red for the fascia. Pretty = stark contrast to
the green that most use and is pretty standard. Not = sure if I would
like it or not. Has anyone tried it?

Also want to do the wood trim, such as the door. Will = probably go
Tuscan, though this would be a gloss whereas the = fascia would be a flat.

Carl, anything to say on the subject?
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF   Member, = PRRT&HS   jerry@pennsyrr.com
Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N = Scale.
"Keystone Crossings" - Home of the = "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
     http://kc.pennsyrr.com
"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad = products...
     http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com

---------------------------------------------------------------= --------
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C4480A.9E29D130-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 21:05:04 -0400 From: Garry Spear Subject: [PRR] FA: Scratch Built 4 car PRR Streamlined train Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: This week I have a PRR streamline set listed on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5901716670 Garry Spear ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] Historic Marker Dedication Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 23:14:16 -0400 There will be a dedication ceremony for the historical marker at Duffy's Cut Mass Grave on the PRR Philadelphia-Pittsburgh Mainline on Friday, June 18, 2004 at 1 p.m. located at King Road and Sugartown Road near Malvern. There will be a reception following at Immaculata University. RSVP to 610-647-4400 ex. 3491. This subject was covered in the Spring 2004 issue of The Keystone, pp 43-45. Al ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C4482E.298B7F80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message

There = will be a=20 dedication ceremony for the historical marker at Duffy's Cut = Mass Grave on the PRR = Philadelphia-Pittsburgh=20 Mainline on Friday, June 18, 2004 at 1 p.m. located at King Road and = Sugartown=20 Road near Malvern. There will be a reception following at Immaculata=20 University. RSVP to 610-647-4400 ex. 3491.

This subject was covered in the = Spring 2004=20 issue of The Keystone, pp 43-45.

------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C4482E.298B7F80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] Historic Marker Dedication Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 23:14:16 -0400 There will be a dedication ceremony for the historical marker at Duffy's Cut Mass Grave on the PRR Philadelphia-Pittsburgh Mainline on Friday, June 18, 2004 at 1 p.m. located at King Road and Sugartown Road near Malvern. There will be a reception following at Immaculata University. RSVP to 610-647-4400 ex. 3491. This subject was covered in the Spring 2004 issue of The Keystone, pp 43-45. Al ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C4482E.298B7F80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message

This subject was covered in the = Spring 2004=20 issue of The Keystone, pp 43-45.

------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C4482E.298B7F80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 07:57:08 -0400 Subject: [PRR] TANGET -- Site Update From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Well, we're back up...we think! Needless to say, it's been a frustrating week plus. We reported our uplink down on May 20th. It took the ISP/TelCo about 24 hours to get us back online. In hindsight, however, it appears that the problem was misdiagnosed. Following that "repair", noise was introduced onto the line. For the week that followed, the broadband router would frequently reset due to that line noise, causing outages from minutes to hours. On Thursday, May 27th, I elected to contact the TelCo directly, rather than going through the ISP. They said they would send a crew out. I told them to call another number first, as I was about 12 minutes away. I arrived that evening to find a note that said, to the effect of, "we were here and you were not". Gee, thanks! I called the TelCo and they apologized and promised to send someone out first call on May 28th, before 10 a.m. My wife waited, but no show. I called at 11:00 a.m. and they said they tested it from the office and it looked fine. I told them otherwise, and they said they would send someone out again that afternoon. Nothing apparent. Called late Friday. They said they went on-site and tested it from outside and it was fine. I said otherwise. "Hello!!!! Try ringing the doorbell and testing from the inside!!!" While the internal wiring is my responsibility, the line filters and router are their responsibility. Next call they said they would work on it Saturday. On Saturday the line noise would disappear, but still no broadband. Then they threw salt in the wound by closing for a three day weekend! First think Tuesday I was on the phone. They dispatched a crew immediately. The confirmed that my wiring was fine, but suspected some of their equipment "took a hit". (A UPS protects my equipment internally.) They checked the filters, made some changes (I think), then got a satisfactory test out of the line from inside. But the router was failing to test. Because I use SDSL (not ADSL), they didn't have a spare on hand. (SDSL emphasizes pushing data out where ADSL emphasizes inbound traffic.) They called the office from my site, and I confirmed with the person at the other end, that a new router is being shipped overnight to me to arrive today. So why are we having this conversation now? Not sure. The router came to life last night around 8:45 p.m. I'm not holding my breath until the new router arrives, but it seems to be working okay so far. I'm sorry for the outage, as I know how many people are affected, not to mention my own commercial uses. To make light of the matter, I hereby nominate my ISP (Epix) and TelCo (Commonwealth Telephone) for the "Darwin Award". In a few million years, maybe they'll have a clue! ---------------------------------------- Listmaster listmaster@dsop.com Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 08:33:50 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] MicroTrains PRR Tri-Level Auto Racks From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Saturday, May 29, 2004, at 01:59 AM, Douglas Nelson wrote: > MicroTrains has n scale PRR Tri-level auto racks coming in June. Can > anyone tell me what year the PRR first used these cars? Doug: Not sure the year they were introduced, but it was at least very late 1950's, but probably early 1960's. The railroad (PRR) supplied the racks which were affixed to TTX-owned flats. TTX was created in 1956. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] REA Interior Photos Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 09:18:41 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-reply-to: <2440-2200463231124646@niia.net> Importance: Normal Sender: