Juniata Terminal questions

Atlas has just announced another release of the "GEEP 7"

http://www.atlasrr= .com/HOLoco/hogp72.htm

Evan Leisey
RCT&HS 346
PRRT&HS 7487=
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ 2003

-------------------------------1083634976-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: k4sb@niia.net Subject: [PRR] RailFanning in Central PA Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 03:15:19 -00 From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 07:32:04 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 05/03/04 In a message dated 5/3/04 1:11:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Questions -- Lines West help needed > From: "Dan Cupper" > Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 22:58:49 -0400 > > Greetings to Jerry and the List: > > Am helping a friend who's grappling with the scope of PRR operations in > Chicagoland in preparation for his task of scriptwriting for a PRR video > in the works. Can anyone verify where PRR serviced its passenger steam > engines in Chicago? My assumption is that light engines cut off their > trains at CUS, backed light out past the South Branch Drawbridge, > crossed Alton Jct., and ran to EC, where they left the PFtW&C main line > and used PRR's short (2.3-mile) Englewood Connecting RR to get to 59th > St. Yard, which was over on the Panhandle main line. Is this correct? > > Dan Cupper > Harrisburg, Pa. > Dan, My memory suggests passenger power was serviced fairly close (16th Street enginehouse). However (as you know) my memories only go back into diesel days. If so, this was in the shadow of the St. Charles Airline bridge, at the south end of 12th Street coach yards. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_116.321bf8d8.2dc8d934_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a messa= ge dated 5/3/04 1:11:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:<= BR>

Subject: Questions -- Lines Wes= t help needed
From: "Dan Cupper" <cupper@att.net>
Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 22:58:49 -0400

Greetings to Jerry and the List:

Am helping a friend who's grappling with the scope of PRR operations in
Chicagoland in preparation for his task of scriptwriting for a PRR video in the works. Can anyone verify where PRR serviced its passenger steam
engines in Chicago? My assumption is that light engines cut off their
trains at CUS, backed light out past the South Branch Drawbridge,
crossed Alton Jct., and ran to EC, where they left the PFtW&C main line=20=
and used PRR's short (2.3-mile) Englewood Connecting RR to get to 59th
St. Yard, which was over on the Panhandle main line. Is this correct?

Dan Cupper
Harrisburg, Pa.

Dan,

My memory suggests passenger power was serviced fairly close (16th Street en= ginehouse). However (as you know) my memories only go back into diesel= days. If so, this was in the shadow of the St. Charles Airline bridge= , at the south end of 12th Street coach yards.

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_116.321bf8d8.2dc8d934_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Nesbitt" Subject: [PRR] Juniata Terminal questions Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 09:37:07 -0400 I'm looking for some of the history of Juniata Terminal. Being a railroad history buff this location has my curiosity up. Perhaps someone will be kind enough to tell me... *When was this structure built *What was the original name *What was the original purpose *How was the location switched out *Track plan available? *What is the address of this location I would find any history related to this location helpful. I am considering adding a compressed version to my layout. The next time Mr. Levin has this location open for a tour I would like to attend as well Thanks Kenny ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C431BB.5E467E20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Juniata Terminal questions

I'm looking for some of the history of = Juniata Terminal. Being a railroad history buff this location has = my curiosity up. Perhaps someone will be kind enough to tell = me...

*When was this structure built
*What was the original name
*What was the original purpose
*How was the location switched = out
*Track plan available?
*What is the address of this = location

I would find any history related to = this location helpful. I am considering adding a compressed version to = my layout. The next time Mr. Levin has this location open for a = tour I would like to attend as well

Thanks

Kenny

------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C431BB.5E467E20-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Nesbitt" Subject: [PRR] Juniata Terminal questions Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 09:37:07 -0400 I'm looking for some of the history of Juniata Terminal. Being a railroad history buff this location has my curiosity up. Perhaps someone will be kind enough to tell me... *When was this structure built *What was the original name *What was the original purpose *How was the location switched out *Track plan available? *What is the address of this location I would find any history related to this location helpful. I am considering adding a compressed version to my layout. The next time Mr. Levin has this location open for a tour I would like to attend as well Thanks Kenny ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C431BB.5E467E20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Juniata Terminal questions

I'm looking for some of the history of = Juniata Terminal. Being a railroad history buff this location has = my curiosity up. Perhaps someone will be kind enough to tell = me...

*When was this structure built
*What was the original name
*What was the original purpose
*How was the location switched = out
*Track plan available?
*What is the address of this = location

Thanks

Kenny

------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C431BB.5E467E20-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 11:25:32 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Maintenance Locations Indicated in MP229's From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <488C22BE-9DDF-11D8-80FB-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The MP229's report what locos are assigned to what divisions. The listings include the road number, class, and a number signifying the foreman in charge of maintenance of the loco. The front of the MP229 has a list of all of those foreman numbers and cross references them to the actual names of the foremen. Question is, is there some place that cross references those foremen with the actual location? For instance, foremen codes starting with 0, 1, and 2 are in the Eastern Region. If I go to the Philadelphia Division pages, for instance, I will see foreman codes of 013 and 015. But where are they? I suspect one might be Harrisburg and one might be Enola. I suspect 013 is Enola, as many freight steam locos are indicated that code. And the GG1's bear 015...so I suspect that is Harrisburg. If I go to the Middle Division pages, the passenger locos -- all of which were supposedly serviced at Harrisburg -- show 023. So 023 is likely a Harrisburg location. A lot of the freight locos bear 021, which I suspect is Enola. While a cross reference for the entire system would be nice, if anyone knows all of the codes for Harrisburg and/or Enola, I'd love to hear from you! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 11:25:32 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Maintenance Locations Indicated in MP229's From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <488C22BE-9DDF-11D8-80FB-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The MP229's report what locos are assigned to what divisions. The listings include the road number, class, and a number signifying the foreman in charge of maintenance of the loco. The front of the MP229 has a list of all of those foreman numbers and cross references them to the actual names of the foremen. Question is, is there some place that cross references those foremen with the actual location? For instance, foremen codes starting with 0, 1, and 2 are in the Eastern Region. If I go to the Philadelphia Division pages, for instance, I will see foreman codes of 013 and 015. But where are they? I suspect one might be Harrisburg and one might be Enola. I suspect 013 is Enola, as many freight steam locos are indicated that code. And the GG1's bear 015...so I suspect that is Harrisburg. If I go to the Middle Division pages, the passenger locos -- all of which were supposedly serviced at Harrisburg -- show 023. So 023 is likely a Harrisburg location. A lot of the freight locos bear 021, which I suspect is Enola. While a cross reference for the entire system would be nice, if anyone knows all of the codes for Harrisburg and/or Enola, I'd love to hear from you! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 08:37:20 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Chicks by mail redux Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 13:31:44 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PR freight schedules From: Frederick Ripley X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Subject: [PRR] Updated N.E. Proto Meet info. -- June 4-5 Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:31:06 -0400 Message-ID: <40B640756E867447A01C4C7BFEE454EB05BD00E2@tpc-hrt-exmb1.tribune.ad.trb> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] Who designed the PRR Keystone logo??? Thread-Index: AcQphEemlbiaItgoRDK2n0JKyPZRUwIgYJWQ From: "Owens, David" To: Return-Path: DOwens@courant.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 May 2004 18:31:07.0781 (UTC) FILETIME=[F7431350:01C43205] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Northeast/New England=09 Prototype Modelers Meet=09 June 4-5, 2004 =20 9 a.m. to 11 p.m. each day =09 Canton Community Center =09 40 Dyer Avenue, Collinsville, CT=09 Meet cost: $20 in advance, $25 at door For more information, contact=20 Dave Owens at dowens@courant.com=20 or 203-757-8663 Please remember that the heart of the meet is the model dislay. Bring = your models, finished and unfinished, to display in the model room. = There's no judging. The goal is to share information and techniques. We'll also have some dealers on Saturday. Also, as a bonus to people arriving early, Bill Schneider of Branchline = Trains will open the Branchline factory for tours on Thursday evening. = Email or call me for details. Scheduled programs include: Prototype weathering with Mike Rose and Ned Carey. Learn Mike's = techniques, and then employ them in a hands-on clinic. Bring a model and = if possible a prototype photo of it. Scratchbuilding basics with Roger Moreau. Roger's scratchbuilt Schnable = car was a big hit last year. This year he's working on a dockside = container crane and will offer a hands-on clinic. Bring tools. Prototype intermodal operations with Ramon C. Rhodes. Ramon will show = how the prototype railroads do it, and how you can do it on your model = railroad. Modeling catenary with Rick Abramson. Rick is a well-known New Haven = modeler whose catenary layout is scheduled to be featured in the August = Model Railroader. The milk market for the PRR, RDG and CNJ with John Greene. John is the = owner of Bethlehem Car Works. Vehicle Modeling with George Barrett. George is the owner of Sheepscot = Scale Models, producer of fine vehicle, structure and maritime kits. The Railway Express Agency with Victor Roseman. You may know Victor as a = first-class modeler and author whose work has graced several magazines. Resin casting with Ben Brown. Ben will reprise his popular clinic from = last year. Cool things to model with Den Lippert. Den will present interesting = things he's spotted on his railfanning journeys. Modeling a MEC/Guilford U18B with Mike Rose. Mike recently completed one = of these GE units and will show you how to build one. The Joy of Scratchbuilding with Mike Tylick. The title says it all.=20 New England milk trains with Don Valentine of New England Rail Service. = Don will also lead a workshop on kitbashing Rivarossi 12-1 sleepers and = other cars. Bring a car to work on! Pullman Cars with Al Hoffman. Al will talk about the cars that each = railroad operated when the feds broke up the Pullman Co.=20 Also featuring Tom Nanos, Bob LaMay, Pete McLachlan, Jeff Hanke, Jim = Tylick, Dave Geisler, Al Westerfield, Neil Gage and J.P. Barger. Northeast/New England=09 Prototype Modelers Meet=09 June 4-5, 2004 =20 9 a.m. to 11 p.m. each day =09 Canton Community Center =09 40 Dyer Avenue, Collinsville, CT=09 Meet cost: $20 in advance, $25 at door For more information, contact=20 Dave Owens at dowens@courant.com=20 or 203-757-8663 Please remember that the heart of the meet is the model dislay. Bring = your models, finished and unfinished, to display in the model room. = There's no judging. The goal is to share information and techniques. We'll also have some dealers on Saturday. Also, as a bonus to people arriving early, Bill Schneider of Branchline = Trains will open the Branchline factory for tours on Thursday evening. = Email or call me for details. Scheduled programs include: Prototype weathering with Mike Rose and Ned Carey. Learn Mike's = techniques, and then employ them in a hands-on clinic. Bring a model and = if possible a prototype photo of it. Scratchbuilding basics with Roger Moreau. Roger's scratchbuilt Schnable = car was a big hit last year. This year he's working on a dockside = container crane and will offer a hands-on clinic. Bring tools. Prototype intermodal operations with Ramon C. Rhodes. Ramon will show = how the prototype railroads do it, and how you can do it on your model = railroad. Modeling catenary with Rick Abramson. Rick is a well-known New Haven = modeler whose catenary layout is scheduled to be featured in the August = Model Railroader. The milk market for the PRR, RDG and CNJ with John Greene. John is the = owner of Bethlehem Car Works. Vehicle Modeling with George Barrett. George is the owner of Sheepscot = Scale Models, producer of fine vehicle, structure and maritime kits. The Railway Express Agency with Victor Roseman. You may know Victor as a = first-class modeler and author whose work has graced several magazines. Resin casting with Ben Brown. Ben will reprise his popular clinic from = last year. Cool things to model with Den Lippert. Den will present interesting = things he's spotted on his railfanning journeys. Modeling a MEC/Guilford U18B with Mike Rose. Mike recently completed one = of these GE units and will show you how to build one. The Joy of Scratchbuilding with Mike Tylick. The title says it all.=20 New England milk trains with Don Valentine of New England Rail Service. = Don will also lead a workshop on kitbashing Rivarossi 12-1 sleepers and = other cars. Bring a car to work on! Pullman Cars with Al Hoffman. Al will talk about the cars that each = railroad operated when the feds broke up the Pullman Co.=20 Also featuring Tom Nanos, Bob LaMay, Pete McLachlan, Jeff Hanke, Jim = Tylick, Dave Geisler, Al Westerfield, Neil Gage and J.P. Barger. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Future Convention Locations Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 15:02:50 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I've seen several posts suggesting that conventions west of Pittsburgh should maybe only be every 5 years or so. I'm curious why so many people seem to think this. The superb convention in Cincinnati was attended by 338, about the same number we get at Camp Hill, if memory serves me (dangerous at my age, of course!). Yes, it's a long drive for we easterners, but hey - our eastern conventions are a long drive for the Lines West folks. So, in my humble opinion, if another Lines West group wants to host a convention, why not, regardless of time between trips west? For conventions of that quality and the fresh information on Lines West, I'd do it again in a heartbeat! Just one SPF's opinion! Bill Bigler - 4915 Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Horseshoe overgrowth Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 19:44:52 +0000 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 16:18:19 -0400 From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR Obs. Louis Sockalexis Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Listers- Can anyone provide any info on PRR Obs. Louis Sockalexis? I cannot find it listed anywhere in my library. TIA. Regards, Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: k4sb@niia.net Subject: [PRR] More RailFanning in Central PA Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 00:18:27 -00 >From: k4sb@niia.net >Subject: RE: [PRR] RailFanning in Central PA >Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 03:15:19 -00 From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 21:40:34 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Questions -- Lines West help needed X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 46 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In a message dated 5/2/04 10:56:03 PM, ajc5150@insightbb.com writes: << Am helping a friend who's grappling with the scope of PRR operations in Chicagoland in preparation for his task of scriptwriting for a PRR video in the works. Can anyone verify where PRR serviced its passenger steam engines in Chicago? My assumption is that light engines cut off their trains at CUS, backed light out past the South Branch Drawbridge, crossed Alton Jct., and ran to EC, where they left the PFtW&C main line and used PRR's short (2.3-mile) Englewood Connecting RR to get to 59th St. Yard, which was over on the Panhandle main line. Is this correct? >> Dan - Don't know if it helps, but I was just clicking through the cable channels and came to AMC. They are running a movie (several times, it appears) called "Silver Streak." It has been a long time since I watched this but, IIRC, there is a scene at the end where the train is moving through a Chicago yard and, eventually, into the terminal (actually, INTO the terminal, ala Washington, DC). I forget whether it is the Pennsy terminal or the other one but it may be of interest, either way. But, I seem to remember that, when I watched the flick, I thought about the times I rode the Pennsy into Chicago. Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] ID this car Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 23:02:18 -0500 Guys (and gals): this car on eBay has me stumped. Is this some kind of = coffee-shop lounge car or what? = http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3D484&item=3D31916= 17459&rd=3D1 Bob Zoeller ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C4322B.D938FE30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Guys (and gals): this car on eBay has = me=20 stumped. Is this some kind of coffee-shop lounge car or = what? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi= ewItem&category=3D484&item=3D3191617459&rd=3D1

Bob Zoeller

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C4322B.D938FE30-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: "PRR-Talk" From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] ID this car Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 06:42:44 -0400 To: "Bob Zoeller" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On May 5, 2004, at 12:02 AM, Bob Zoeller wrote: > Guys (and gals): this car on eBay has me stumped.=A0 Is this some kind = =20 > of coffee-shop lounge car or what?=A0 =20 > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?=20 > ViewItem&category=3D484&item=3D3191617459&rd=3D1 If you can ask and supply the road number we can ascertain what it =20 "purports to be". With a number you can do a lookup in the Varnish =20 database on Keystone Crossings. Several of its characteristics -- the roof shape, the porthole window, =20= etc. -- suggest it is one of the 1938-39 diners. It is NOT one of the =20= P70c/P70d cars. Even for a kitchen area, there are usually more windows down the full =20= length of the car. This one does not have that, opening the door that =20= it might have a dorm in one end. Did you check the elevations on Rob's site? I didn't have the time to =20= do so at present. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Juniata Terminal questions Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 07:10:33 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Ken, Juniata terminal Company was formerly the Frankford Terminal Freight House recieving perishable goods and LCL freight. Most likely built in the 1920's due to its construction, with cranes added later. The location was most likely switched by a local crew, track access is from the "0" Conrail Freight track off of Frankford Junction. As far as the original track arrangement, 3 tracks entered the building as they do now. with a forth paralleling the side of the building where the baggage car and N8 sit now. The unoccupied area north of these tracks and the NEC were probably once a yard. I can't give you an exact address but if you mapquest it its near the intersection of Tioga Ave. and the NEC. Bennett would be able to answer some of these questions at a greater length. From what I know, he has working drawings of the building. Best Regards, John "Ken Nesbitt" wrote: I'm looking for some of the history of Juniata Terminal. Being a railroad history buff this location has my curiosity up. Perhaps someone will be kind enough to tell me... *When was this structure built *What was the original name *What was the original purpose *How was the location switched out *Track plan available? *What is the address of this location I would find any history related to this location helpful. I am considering adding a compressed version to my layout. The next time Mr. Levin has this location open for a tour I would like to attend as well Thanks Kenny ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 07:58:40 -0400 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] Chicks by mail redux Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: My rural, small post office has a poster on the wall listing what you can ship (baby chix, books, some kinds of paint, etc.) and what you can't ( explosives, guns, big chickens, dogs!). FWIW, anything weighing over a pound in weight actually goes on a FedEx or UPS plane, not a passenger airliner. Jim McDaniel, who has no chickens of any kind on the property, in Delmarva ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 07:55:09 -0500 Subject: [PRR] B60b questions From: Frederick Ripley Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 08:11:59 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] ID this car From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Wednesday, May 5, 2004, at 05:42 AM, Jerry @ Pennsy wrote: > On May 5, 2004, at 12:02 AM, Bob Zoeller wrote: > >> Guys (and gals): this car on eBay has me stumped.=A0 Is this some = kind =20 >> of coffee-shop lounge car or what?=A0 =20 >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/=20 >> eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3D484&item=3D3191617459&rd=3D1 > > If you can ask and supply the road number we can ascertain what it =20 > "purports to be". With a number you can do a lookup in the Varnish =20 > database on Keystone Crossings. > > Several of its characteristics -- the roof shape, the porthole window, = =20 > etc. -- suggest it is one of the 1938-39 diners. It is NOT one of the =20= > P70c/P70d cars. > > Even for a kitchen area, there are usually more windows down the full =20= > length of the car. This one does not have that, opening the door that =20= > it might have a dorm in one end. The model appears to have a vestibule on both ends, opening the door =20 that it might not have been a diner at all, but was rebuilt from =20 some P70 class...It certainly would be helpful to have a view of the =20 other side too... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin =20= Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 09:24:16 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] B60b questions From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Wednesday, May 5, 2004, at 08:55 AM, Frederick Ripley wrote: > With the new B60b's coming out, I have a couple of questions: > > -did these handle checked baggage, as well as express? > > -I believe I read/heard that the version with vents on the roof > carried an > express messenger- is this correct? It didn't have to carry a messenger, but could. It was equipped with vents for air flow, a toilet, and a desk. > > -Any other different uses between the two? (vent vs no vents) I think otherwise they were the same. > What were > the respective nos. on the roster? I have the 1954 roster online at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/varnish/ Set the Class = B60b . This will return all B60b's. To find just the vented cars, also set Type = Baggage Express Messenger . To find just the non-vented cars, also set Type = Baggage Express . Again, this is as of 1954. Some of these cars likely did not make it to the mid-1960's, though many (most?) did. > By the mid-60's, which I model, what > would be an appropriate balance between the two? Can't help here. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 10:03:12 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Chicks by mail redux Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 09:12:09 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] B60b questions From: Frederick Ripley From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] B60b questions Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 10:44:37 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-reply-to: <81F7D9CE-9E97-11D8-96A2-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The other differences were: - interior, the car also had a safe - exterior (more to the point for modeling), The car was identified by a star above the "Railway Express" legend Regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Britton Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 9:24 AM To: Frederick Ripley Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] B60b questions On Wednesday, May 5, 2004, at 08:55 AM, Frederick Ripley wrote: > With the new B60b's coming out, I have a couple of questions: > > -did these handle checked baggage, as well as express? > > -I believe I read/heard that the version with vents on the roof > carried an > express messenger- is this correct? It didn't have to carry a messenger, but could. It was equipped with=20 vents for air flow, a toilet, and a desk. > > -Any other different uses between the two? (vent vs no vents) I think otherwise they were the same. > What were > the respective nos. on the roster? I have the 1954 roster online at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/varnish/ Set the Class =3D B60b . This will return all B60b's. To find just the vented cars, also set Type =3D Baggage Express = Messenger=20 . To find just the non-vented cars, also set Type =3D Baggage Express . Again, this is as of 1954. Some of these cars likely did not make it to=20 the mid-1960's, though many (most?) did. > By the mid-60's, which I model, what > would be an appropriate balance between the two? Can't help here. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone = Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: k4sb@niia.net Subject: [PRR] No More RailFanning in Central PA? Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 15:52:33 -00 >From: k4sb@niia.net >Subject: RE: [PRR] More RailFanning in Central PA >Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 00:18:27 -00 >>>From: k4sb@niia.net >>>Subject: RE: [PRR] RailFanning in Central PA >>>Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 03:15:19 -00 From: k4sb@niia.net Subject: [PRR] No More RailFanning in Central PA? Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 15:52:33 -00 >From: k4sb@niia.net >Subject: RE: [PRR] More RailFanning in Central PA >Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 00:18:27 -00 >>>From: k4sb@niia.net >>>Subject: RE: [PRR] RailFanning in Central PA >>>Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 03:15:19 -00 Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 08:53:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Chicks by mail redux From: Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Yep. US Mail still handles sundry live critters. Baby chicks, other bay fowl (pheasants, etc...) do fine in overnight (express.) Live Lobstah, suitably packaged goes express. Sundry Approved Insects (butterflies, etc, with inspections) also travel by mail... best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Prr1187@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 20:38:27 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] ID this car X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 146 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In reading the description, that it was custom PRR painted, my interpretation is that car was some other railroad's prototype, that was custom painted with a PRR scheme in error. Of course the missing box would explain things. Obviously not a normal diner, because no windows for diners. Dennis Sautters, PRRT&HS #1974 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 23:49:55 -0400 Subject: [PRR] ALTO Tower,1964 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Greetings At the PRRT&HS meet in Cincinnati,I picked up some old files on Alto,JD-ConPitt,and Rose interlockings. I just read through some of the files for ALTO Tower and came across some shocking info. In 1964, PRR management had made the decision to tare down ALTO Tower and build a new "fireproof" ALTO Tower directly across the tracks from the old location. The new ALTO would have been a one story Armco metal building. According to the paperwork in this file, the PRR did not want to spend $160.000 to rewire the interlocking and the project was dropped from PRR's 1965 Capital Improvement Program. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] ID this car Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 08:10:55 -0400 From: Prr1187@aol.com [mailto:Prr1187@aol.com] Subject: Re: [PRR] ID this car Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 10:04:43 -0400 Subject: [PRR] "Caps" in Freight Car Classes From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <532E8AC6-9F66-11D8-9087-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Can anyone authoritatively comment on the use of capitals in PRR freight car classes? Specifically, I have seen FM flats as either "FM" or "Fm". And for hoppers, the GLxx subclasses with the "L" both upper or lower, as in GLa vs. Gla GLca vs. Glca ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred in Vt." Subject: Re: [PRR] ID this car Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:15:24 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Chris, If the brown book you refer to is the NJ Intl. passenger plan book, please see page 66. It was one of 5 rebuilt for Jersey commuter service. No doubt this "captive service" unit was not familiar to many of the listers. Just don't get that sort of thing on Lines West !! For those who do not have the book; cars 1105, 1106,1108, 1109,1110, were the ones converted. The seating was in 2 arrangements: 30 coach / 24 dining & 40 coach / 16 dining. Those modeling the Long Branch operations into NYC would find this a unique piece for the collection. Fred in Vt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chany, Christopher" To: Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:10 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] ID this car > > Would this car be in a Brown Book? > > Chris Chany > > -----Original Message----- > From: Prr1187@aol.com [mailto:Prr1187@aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 8:38 PM > To: smithbf@mail.auburn.edu; jerry@pennsyrr.com > Cc: bobspf@wi.rr.com; prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] ID this car > > > In reading the description, that it was custom PRR painted, > my interpretation is that car was some other railroad's prototype, > that was custom painted with a PRR scheme in error. > > Of course the missing box would explain things. > > Obviously not a normal diner, because no windows for diners. > > Dennis Sautters, PRRT&HS #1974 > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] ID this car Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:27:06 -0400 From: Fred in Vt. [mailto:pennsy@sover.net] Subject: Re: [PRR] ID this car From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] ID this car > From: Prr1187@aol.com [mailto:Prr1187@aol.com] > Subject: Re: [PRR] ID this car RE: [PRR] ID this car

Not the Brown Book I was talking about but if it = answered the question do I get the credit? There is a book called = The Brown Book of Brass ... It supposedly has pictures of all the = brass that was imported but it may only be locos. Not sure!

Chris Chany

-----Original Message-----
From: Fred in Vt. [mailto:pennsy@sover.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:15 AM
To: Chany, Christopher; prr-talk@dsop.com
Cc: Bruce F. Smith; Bob Zoeller
Subject: Re: [PRR] ID this car

Chris,
If = the brown book you refer to is the NJ Intl. passenger plan book,
please see page 66. It was one of 5 rebuilt for = Jersey commuter service. No
doubt this "captive service" unit was not = familiar to many of the listers.
Just don't get that sort of thing on Lines West = !!

For = those who do not have the book; cars 1105, 1106,1108,
1109,1110, were the ones converted. The seating was = in 2 arrangements: 30
coach / 24 dining & 40 coach / 16 dining. Those = modeling the Long Branch
operations into NYC would find this a unique piece = for the collection.

Fred in Vt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chany, Christopher" = <cpc1@westchestergov.com>
To: <prr-talk@dsop.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:10 AM
Subject: RE: [PRR] ID this car

>
> Would this car be in a Brown Book?
>
> Chris Chany
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Prr1187@aol.com [mailto:Prr1187@aol.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 8:38 PM
> To: smithbf@mail.auburn.edu; = jerry@pennsyrr.com
> Cc: bobspf@wi.rr.com; prr-talk@dsop.com
> Subject: Re: [PRR] ID this car
>
>
> In reading the description, that it was custom = PRR painted,
> my interpretation is that car was some other = railroad's prototype,
> that was custom painted with a PRR scheme in = error.
>
> Of course the missing box would explain = things.
>
> Obviously not a normal diner, because no = windows for diners.
>
> Dennis Sautters, PRRT&HS #1974
>
>
>
>
> = -----------------------------------------------------------------------<= /FONT>
> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.
>
> = -----------------------------------------------------------------------<= /FONT>
> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.
>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C4337E.96D12000-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:26:28 -0400 Subject: [PRR] 1954 Freight Roster Online From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Yesterday I cumulated all of the data in the January 1955 ORER (which had 10/1/54 data from the Pennsy) to determine how many cars of each class/subclass were in service. This information is useful for filling out layout rosters if you are modeling the 1950's. The URL is http://kc.pennsyrr.com/freightops/54_fleet/ . I'm now adding in known models in HO or N scale, based on the class the manufacturer of the model paints on it (even if its wrong, but noting that). I know I am missing some HO models that I have to dig for -- the Rail Works flats that were released and the Branchline box cars. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:31:07 -0400 Subject: [PRR] H30's -- We Need Them! From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <64E69FDC-9F72-11D8-9087-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In looking over the 1954 roster info (see other post), it became painfully obvious that we need H30 covered hoppers! As of 1954, these were the most prevalent covered hopper (1,325) and there were more than four times as many of these as the next closest subclass (H32 and H34 each of 300). The drawings show these as "Cement Hoppers". Were they used only for cement? I kind of doubt it. Were they built by the PRR? If not, did any other roads have them? Need a dozen in N scale, please! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:31:07 -0400 Subject: [PRR] H30's -- We Need Them! From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <64E69FDC-9F72-11D8-9087-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In looking over the 1954 roster info (see other post), it became painfully obvious that we need H30 covered hoppers! As of 1954, these were the most prevalent covered hopper (1,325) and there were more than four times as many of these as the next closest subclass (H32 and H34 each of 300). The drawings show these as "Cement Hoppers". Were they used only for cement? I kind of doubt it. Were they built by the PRR? If not, did any other roads have them? Need a dozen in N scale, please! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 10:32:56 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] "Caps" in Freight Car Classes From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, May 6, 2004, at 09:04 AM, Jerry Britton wrote: > Can anyone authoritatively comment on the use of capitals in PRR > freight car classes? > > Specifically, I have seen FM flats as either "FM" or "Fm". > > And for hoppers, the GLxx subclasses with the "L" both upper or lower, > as in > Jerry, All caps when lettered on the car, including the subclass, which was a smaller sized stencil. I tend toward all caps when writing the classes in text, when I remember. > > GLa vs. Gla > GLca vs. Glca How about GLA and GLCA Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Convention Photos Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:52:50 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: