[PRR] Re: [qsi] Digest Number 87

From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 01:06:35 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Hopper Classes Used For Iron Ore Traffic Jerry the H-21 class was the biggest on the PRR until the H-39 came along in 1960. Since the import ore business started in Phila in 1954 my educated guess would be H-21'a , GLa, H-31, H-35. The PRR knew the H-21 fleet was close to the end of it's economic life in the early 50's. They built or purchased the H-35 in 1956 as a possible replacement for the H-21 fleet. The H-36 and H-37 class were also built as a possible replacement. While most rr's would build a few cars for a test the PRR did it in a big way buying 1000-1500 of some of the pre H-39 classes. By the end of the 50's the 70 ton car was the norm and the H-39 became the replacement for the H-21. The ore business also showed the weakness of hopper doors keeping ore inside the car so thats one of the reasons the G-38's were built. When pellets became the norm the steam lance holes in the 38's would leak a steady stream of pellets along the right of way. The G-38 also cubed out with pellets before it weighed out therefore the G-39 class. ---------------------------- Ken McCorry --part1_10f.2e03719a.2d9d0b6b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Jerry the H-2= 1 class was the biggest on the PRR until the H-39 came along in 1960. Since=20= the import ore business started in Phila in 1954 my educated guess would be=20= H-21'a , GLa, H-31, H-35. The PRR knew the H-21 fleet was close to the end o= f it's economic life in the early 50's. They built or purchased the H-35 in=20= 1956 as a possible replacement for the H-21 fleet. The H-36 and H-37 class w= ere also built as a possible replacement. While most rr's would build a few=20= cars for a test the PRR did it in a big way buying 1000-1500 of some of the=20= pre H-39 classes. By the end of the 50's the 70 ton car was the norm and the= H-39 became the replacement for the H-21. The ore business also showed the=20= weakness of hopper doors keeping ore inside the car so thats one of the reas= ons the G-38's were built. When pellets became the norm the steam lance hole= s in the 38's would leak a steady stream of pellets along the right of way.=20= The G-38 also cubed out with pellets before it weighed out therefore the G-3= 9 class. ---------------------------- Ken McCorry --part1_10f.2e03719a.2d9d0b6b_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: 760331thx@netcourrier.com Subject: [PRR] Re: Never mind the renewal form ... where the H..L is my Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:35:22 CEST Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: ----Message d'origine---- >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:56:20 -0500 >PRR-Talk Digest - Wednesday, March 31, 2004 > Never mind the renewal form ... where the H..L is my Keystone?? >From: =22John H. Wright=22 >ON the subject of the renewal form ... if it wasn't for the PRRTHS websit= e >e-commerce pages I wouldn't have had a renewal form. April Fool's day >tomorrow and I still haven't seen hide nor hair of the Keystone. >Any other Brits in the group having the same trouble? John, Don't know for you on the other side of the Channel, but the Spring issue = made its way to France a few weeks ago... By the way, my Society subscription got a little bit screwed, as I used th= e e-store, but subscribed in December for 2003 (which allowed me to get th= e 2003 Keystone issues) and renewed through the e-store in early 2004. Thanks to the Stanleys (very courteous and efficent), everything seems to = be OK now. Regards, Xavier Thiriet ------------------------------------------------------------- NetCourrier, votre bureau virtuel sur Internet : Mail, Agenda, Clubs, Tool= bar... Web/Wap : www.netcourrier.com T=E9l=E9phone/Fax : 08 92 69 00 21 (0,34 =80 TTC/min) Minitel: 3615 NETCOURRIER (0,16 =80 TTC/min) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: [PRR] ANNOUNCING NEW PRR E-MAIL LIST Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 06:23:31 -0600 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The number of subscribers of PRR-Talk has vastly grown in recent years, and will only continue to grow. Unfortunately, new members have missed out on many great posts from years past. This new e-mail list, PRRTalk-Classic, will enable newer members to enjoy posts from the past. Subscribers will receive messages from the list seven years ago. For instance, on April 4th, they will receive all the messages originally posted on April 4th, 1997. On April 5th, they will receive the messages posted on April 5th, 1997, and so on. To subscribe, simply reply to this message and place the word "SUBSCRIBE" (All CAPS) in the subject line. Messages will contain [PRRTalk-Classic] in the subject line to enable subscribers to sort messages. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: MLiebeskin@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 07:59:33 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/31/04 Thank you for excellent advice on brass storage. I will store all my models accordingly. John Liebeskind -------------------------------1080824373 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

Thank you for excellent advice on brass storage. I will store all my mo= dels accordingly.

John Liebeskind

-------------------------------1080824373-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:24:55 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: [qsi] Digest Number 87 From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Tom: No, I cannot confirm (nor am I under non-disclosure). However, the passenger cars have been confirmed, though they haven't been in a dealer bulletin or on the web site yet either. On Wednesday, March 31, 2004, at 11:53 PM, qsi@yahoogroups.com wrote: > 700 P5a Box Cab w/Sound -- PRR Brunswick Green/Undecorated HO 239.99 > 701 P5a Modified w/Sound -- PRR Brunswick Green/Undecorated HO 239.99 > 702 P5 Box Cab w/Sound -- PRR Brunswick Green #4700 HO 239.99 > 703 P5b Box Cab w/Sound -- PRR Brunswick Green #4702 HO 239.99 > 704 P5a Box Cab w/Sound -- PRR Brunswick Green #4706 HO 239.99 > 705 P5a Box Cab w/Sound -- PRR Brunswick Green #4735 HO 239.99 > 706 P5a Modified w/Sound -- PRR Brunswick Green #4744 HO 239.99 > 707 P5a Modified w/Sound -- PRR Brunswick Green #4753 HO 239.99 > >> 1623 GG-1 w/Sound Pennsy Brunswick Green / Gold Leaf 5-Stripe / >> Clarendon Lettering, #4905 N $229.99 >> 1624 GG-1 w/Sound Pennsy Brunswick Green / 'Buff' Broad Stripe / 16" >> Roman Lettering, #4868 N $229.99 >> 1625 GG-1 w/Sound Pennsy Tuscan Red / Gold Leaf 5-Stripe / Clarendon >> Lettering, #4913 N $229.99 >> 1626 GG-1 w/Sound Pennsy Brunswick Green / Gold Leaf 5-Stripe / >> Futura Lettering, #4862 N $229.99 >> 1627 GG-1 w/Sound Pennsy Tuscan Red / 'Buff' Broad Stripe / 16" Roman >> Lettering, #4916 N $229.99 >> 1628 GG-1 w/Sound Pennsy Silver / Broad Stripe / 16" Roman >> Lettering, #4866 N $229.99 >> 1629 GG-1 w/Sound Pennsy Brunswick Green / 'Buff' 5-Stripe / >> Clarendon Lettering, #4901 N $229.99 >> 1630 GG-1 w/Sound Pennsy Tusca Red / 'Buff' 5-Stripe / Clarendon >> Lettering, #4929 N $229.99 >> 1631 GG-1 w/Sound Pennsy Brunswick Green / Undecorated N $229.99 ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:22:26 -0500 Subject: [PRR] TANGENT - DSOP Sites Hard To Get To From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The web sites and lists of DSOP.COM (which includes the pennsyrr.com domain) has been hard to get to this morning. Our ISP did some sort of maintenance last night ( http://my.epix.net/ ) and things weren't back up to snuff as planned this morning. It is slowly but surely getting better. (Actually, it seems faster!) Sorry for the inconvenience. ---------------------------------------- Listmaster listmaster@dsop.com Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:28:29 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Ore Loads in Hoppers From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Following on yesterdays post, I am looking for photos of ore loads in hoppers (ex. H21a or GLa). I just went through all my books (70+) looking for something last week so now they are all a blur. I know there are one or more "top down" photos of ore loads. References to these pics would be appreciated. If anyone sells photos and has these in their libraries, please contact me with reprint info. Thank you. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:28:29 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Ore Loads in Hoppers From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Following on yesterdays post, I am looking for photos of ore loads in hoppers (ex. H21a or GLa). I just went through all my books (70+) looking for something last week so now they are all a blur. I know there are one or more "top down" photos of ore loads. References to these pics would be appreciated. If anyone sells photos and has these in their libraries, please contact me with reprint info. Thank you. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Ore Loads in Hoppers Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 15:14:41 +0000 From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Ore Loads in Hoppers Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 15:32:34 +0000 Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:51:41 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Ore Loads in Hoppers From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, April 1, 2004, at 10:32 AM, b.hom@att.net wrote: > While you're at it, get a copy of John Teichmoeller's "Pennsylvania > Railroad Steel Open Hopper Cars - A Guide for Enthusiasts." This is > an indispensible reference if you model the Pennsy. If you don't have > it, you're shortchanging yourself on a wealth of information for over > 1/3 of the PRR freight car fleet. > http://www.modelrailroadingmag.com/html/PennHopperCar.htm Have it. Great info on the hoppers, but not on the ore handling. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Rushville Indiana Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:19:24 -0800 From: DAVID FARLOW [mailto:Hudson.Industries@worldnet.att.net] Subject: [PRR] PRR Rushville Indiana

David;

The CT1000 for 1945 shows = Rushville, = Ind. In the Indianapolis Division listed as having a freight = station (MP 19.8) between the City of Rushville Water & Light Plant, and = the NYC&StL connection. = Sorry, no passenger station listed for that date. There was one in Homer, and one in = Falmouth. On = passenger service: Don't know for that early date, but you have to figure on a line that big, back then, pretty certainly YES. It was the only way to get around, unless you had the big $ for = a new Model T or like.

Elden

-----Original = Message-----
From: DAVID FARLOW [mailto:Hudson.Industries@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March = 31, 2004 4:53 PM
To: = PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] PRR = Rushville Indiana

Does anyone know if the = PRR had a passenger depot in Rushville. Some have told me that the B&O = depot located to the east of the PRR diamond was used as the = "tower" and a passenger ticket office by the PRR. That depot was built in = 1911. Would there have been any passenger trains on this PRR line from = Cambridge City / Dublin Junction at that point?

David = Farlow

------_=_NextPart_001_01C41805.18D54670-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:27:14 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] ANNOUNCING NEW PRR E-MAIL LIST Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:51:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] ANNOUNCING NEW PRR E-MAIL LIST From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, April 1, 2004, at 11:27 AM, Derrick J Brashear wrote: > On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Andy Cich wrote: > >> The number of subscribers of PRR-Talk has vastly grown in recent >> years, and >> will only continue to grow. Unfortunately, new members have missed >> out on >> many great posts from years past. This new e-mail list, >> PRRTalk-Classic, >> will enable newer members to enjoy posts from the past. > > You'd think it was April 1st or something. Then there's "PRR-Advanced", the list where you will receive posts from the future! I knew nothing about this in advance and have to say I got a pretty good laugh out of it. Well done! I ran out of April 1st energy years ago. Still grin when I recall announcing that Keystone Crossings was merging with the net's largest NYC site. Nice, huh? ;-) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Re: [qsi] Digest Number 87 Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:14:35 -0500 [PRR] Re: [qsi] Digest Number 87

So Jerry,

Looks got a full stable of G's for your Harrisburg = station. I can't imagine they're doing a P5b since there was only = one. I can't wait to get a modified though!

Chris Chany

> 700   P5a Box Cab w/Sound -- PRR = Brunswick Green/Undecorated HO      = 239.99
> 701   P5a Modified w/Sound -- PRR = Brunswick Green/Undecorated HO      = 239.99
> 702   P5 Box Cab w/Sound -- PRR = Brunswick Green #4700 HO      239.99
> 703   P5b Box Cab w/Sound -- PRR = Brunswick Green #4702        = HO      239.99
> 704   P5a Box Cab w/Sound -- PRR = Brunswick Green #4706        = HO      239.99
> 705   P5a Box Cab w/Sound -- PRR = Brunswick Green #4735        = HO      239.99
> 706   P5a Modified w/Sound -- PRR = Brunswick Green #4744       = HO      239.99
> 707   P5a Modified w/Sound -- PRR = Brunswick Green #4753       = HO      239.99
>
>> 1623 GG-1 w/Sound Pennsy Brunswick Green / = Gold Leaf 5-Stripe /
>> Clarendon Lettering, #4905   = N       $229.99
>> 1624 GG-1 w/Sound Pennsy Brunswick Green / = 'Buff' Broad Stripe / 16"
>> Roman Lettering, = #4868       = N       $229.99
>> 1625 GG-1 w/Sound Pennsy Tuscan Red / Gold = Leaf 5-Stripe / Clarendon
>> Lettering, #4913     = N       $229.99
>> 1626 GG-1 w/Sound Pennsy Brunswick Green / = Gold Leaf 5-Stripe /
>> Futura Lettering, = #4862      = N       $229.99
>> 1627 GG-1 w/Sound Pennsy Tuscan Red / = 'Buff' Broad Stripe / 16" Roman
>> Lettering, #4916     = N       $229.99
>> 1628 GG-1 w/Sound Pennsy Silver / = Broad Stripe / 16" Roman
>> Lettering, #4866     = N       $229.99
>> 1629 GG-1 w/Sound Pennsy Brunswick Green / = 'Buff' 5-Stripe /
>> Clarendon Lettering, #4901   = N       $229.99
>> 1630 GG-1 w/Sound Pennsy Tusca Red / 'Buff' = 5-Stripe / Clarendon
>> Lettering, #4929     = N       $229.99
>> 1631 GG-1 w/Sound Pennsy Brunswick Green / = Undecorated       = N       $229.99

------_=_NextPart_001_01C4180C.CE3301E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:28:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [qsi] Digest Number 87 From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, April 1, 2004, at 12:14 PM, Chany, Christopher wrote: > Looks got a full stable of G's for your Harrisburg station.=A0 Will have to look at the road numbers and compare to the freight vs.=20 passenger assignments. I could use some of each, of course. Considering=20= that I'll only have about 30' of visible track under wire -- the rest=20 being west of Harrisburg -- I won't invest in a huge fleet! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Steam in 2004! Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 17:16:08 +0000 From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: [qsi] Digest Number 87 Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:36:08 -0500 Do they have the G that is parked at the station? Since it was the = first G to get to Harrisburg. Chris -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 12:29 PM To: Chany, Christopher Cc: Prr-talk Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [qsi] Digest Number 87 On Thursday, April 1, 2004, at 12:14 PM, Chany, Christopher wrote: > Looks got a full stable of G's for your Harrisburg station.=A0 Will have to look at the road numbers and compare to the freight vs.=20 passenger assignments. I could use some of each, of course. Considering = that I'll only have about 30' of visible track under wire -- the rest=20 being west of Harrisburg -- I won't invest in a huge fleet! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4180F.D12845B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: [PRR] Re: [qsi] Digest Number 87

Do they have the G that is parked at the = station? Since it was the first G to get to Harrisburg.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com]=
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 12:29 PM
To: Chany, Christopher
Cc: Prr-talk
Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [qsi] Digest Number 87

On Thursday, April 1, 2004, at 12:14 PM, Chany, = Christopher wrote:

> Looks got a full stable of G's for your = Harrisburg station.=A0

Will have to look at the road numbers and compare to = the freight vs.
passenger assignments. I could use some of each, of = course. Considering
that I'll only have about 30' of visible track under = wire -- the rest
being west of Harrisburg -- I won't invest in a huge = fleet!
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF   Member, = PRRT&HS   jerry@pennsyrr.com
Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N = Scale.
"Keystone Crossings" - Home of the = "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
     http://kc.pennsyrr.com
"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad = products...
     http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com

------_=_NextPart_001_01C4180F.D12845B0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Steam in 2004! Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:47:16 -0500 From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net] Subject: [PRR] Steam in 2004! RE: [PRR] Steam in 2004!

Is Sid Finch involved in this undertaking? I = heard he is working for a western railroad since he is done = pitching.

Chris Chany

-----Original Message-----
From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 12:16 PM
To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] Steam in 2004!

Hurry up Scranton we need that K4 now!

4449 to be used in coal versus diesel fuel efficiency = testing

PORTLAND, Ore. - Former Southern Pacific 4-8-4 4449 = will be the guinea pig in a six-month testing cycle to determine the = feasibility of using oil and coal fired steam locomotives to replace = diesels in specific mainline and secondary applications in certain = areas of the country, according to Doyle McCormack of the Daylight = Locomotive & Machine Works.

"A major western railroad, they asked me not to = disclose their name at this time, has approached my firm to conduct = feasibility studies," said McCormack. "I was told that the industry is = exploring every possibility to draw down their dependency on expensive = diesel fuel that shows only signs of increasing in price in = 2004."

The testing, to be completed on a mainline or = secondary mainline radiating out of Portland, will have the 4449 pull a = daily 2,000 ton freight train using oil for three months, and then = after converting the steam engine's tender to coal, using that fuel for = three months in order to make critical efficiency comparisons. Coal = from the Powder River Basin in Wyoming is expected to be brought in. = Down time, servicing and refueling will all be entered into the = equation.

"There are enough large steam engines in this country = that are capable of being returned to operation to make a strong = showing that a regional steam division could be feasible for a = railroad." McCormack says that at the behest of the railroad, he has = been in contact with a number of steam locomotive societies that if the = initial test is a success, perhaps they would be interested in their = locomotive being leased for the extended program.

"I've also been in contact with a group in Michigan = that knows the whereabouts of a former New York Central J-series 4-6-4 = Hudson stored in a trackless roundhouse in the southwestern part of the = state," said McCormack. "If anything could bring politicians trackside, = it would be a combination of the 4449 and that Hudson. East and west. = Would that be a great double-header, or what?"

The program, which will officially kick off today = with a planned steam start up in about two months, is expected to = publish results April 1, 2005.

---------------------------------------------------------------= --------
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C41811.5EF8C990-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:30:24 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Ore Loads in Hoppers Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 14:57:39 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [qsi] Digest Number 87 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Chris: Yes, the first GG1 to arrive in Harrisburg is at Harrisburg's Amtrak station. It will PROBABLY be moved to a different track (one that doesn't connect to the mains) so that Amtrak has more flexibility at the station. It is being taken care of by the Harrisburg Chapter of the NRHS. Jeff Warner ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 15:37:01 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Diner on The Penn Texas From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <5457743E-841C-11D8-816E-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Trying to track down a change in diner assignments for The Penn Texas, trains 3 & 4. The June 1978 issue of Rails Northeast indicates that in 1953 the train had a "Diner (LW)", suggesting a lightweight diner. The September 26, 1954 New York Division "Makeup of Trains" indicates "Diner (LW)". Consistent so far. And the latter source usually points out when a twin unit diner was in place. The Spring 2003 issue of The Keystone, p. 52, indicates that as of 1958, twin unit diners were assigned to the train. Anyone know of when the changeover might have taken place? Anyone have any CT220's (specific train/date consist reports) that show diner car numbers or classes? Back to the single "Diner (LW)"... Can anyone venture an educated guess as to class? Possibilities seem limited to... D82 (2 cars) D82AR, D82BR, D82CR D85a D85ad D85R Earlier (lower numbers in this case) classes would be heavy weights. The following would be excluded: D85c (part of twin unit) D85d (part of twin unit) D85dR (kitchen dorm) D85ed (coffee shop) DL85d (part of twin unit) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] Ore Loads in Hoppers Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 16:31:34 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Jerry--You asked for references for photos of ore in hoppers. Pennsy Steam Years Vol. 1, pg. 70, shows a shot from above an H21 and a "captured" NYC offset side two bay hopper behind, of course, two Decapods. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: Prr-talk , Derrick J Brashear From: David Wartell Subject: Re: [PRR] ANNOUNCING NEW PRR E-MAIL LIST Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:39:16 -0500 To: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I don't know Jerry, are you sure you didn't put him up to it. :-) Dave Wartell djwartel@comcast.net On Apr 1, 2004, at 11:51 AM, Jerry Britton wrote: > On Thursday, April 1, 2004, at 11:27 AM, Derrick J Brashear wrote: > >> On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Andy Cich wrote: >> >>> The number of subscribers of PRR-Talk has vastly grown in recent >>> years, and >>> will only continue to grow. Unfortunately, new members have missed >>> out on >>> many great posts from years past. This new e-mail list, >>> PRRTalk-Classic, >>> will enable newer members to enjoy posts from the past. >> >> You'd think it was April 1st or something. > > Then there's "PRR-Advanced", the list where you will receive posts > from the future! > > I knew nothing about this in advance and have to say I got a pretty > good laugh out of it. Well done! > > I ran out of April 1st energy years ago. Still grin when I recall > announcing that Keystone Crossings was merging with the net's largest > NYC site. Nice, huh? ;-) > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: Prr-talk , Derrick J Brashear From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] ANNOUNCING NEW PRR E-MAIL LIST Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:41:19 -0500 To: David Wartell X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Apr 1, 2004, at 6:39 PM, David Wartell wrote: > I don't know Jerry, are you sure you didn't put him up to it. :-) Swear I didn't! And one of my customers suggested a new list: "Merchandise Announce Advanced", where I announce products that are coming out over the next five years, with an emphasis on eastern roads! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <88F685C0-8441-11D8-9533-000A9581CCA6@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] The Ore Train / Iron Ore Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 20:03:21 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Watching "The Ore Train"... In some views, the ore looks like broken up concrete, with a very washed out color. In others, red. Comments? On the trains in the movie, heading to Mt. Carmel, the ore is, as stated, like broken up concrete chunks. Compare that with what came out of Philadelphia's ore pier following 1954 and headed west. Did it appear the same, or was it the "pellet" form sometimes referred to as -- excuse the spelling -- taconite? Comments? The movie indeed shows a variety of cars. Most of the H21's do have the loading we have been referring to... a scoop over each truck. But the shorter cars -- like the GLa's -- and the gons, are filled to the brim. With the GLa's, I realize this could be a matter of the overall tonnage being the same. But the gons appear to be filled end to end. Comments? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <88F685C0-8441-11D8-9533-000A9581CCA6@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] The Ore Train / Iron Ore Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 20:03:21 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Watching "The Ore Train"... In some views, the ore looks like broken up concrete, with a very washed out color. In others, red. Comments? On the trains in the movie, heading to Mt. Carmel, the ore is, as stated, like broken up concrete chunks. Compare that with what came out of Philadelphia's ore pier following 1954 and headed west. Did it appear the same, or was it the "pellet" form sometimes referred to as -- excuse the spelling -- taconite? Comments? The movie indeed shows a variety of cars. Most of the H21's do have the loading we have been referring to... a scoop over each truck. But the shorter cars -- like the GLa's -- and the gons, are filled to the brim. With the GLa's, I realize this could be a matter of the overall tonnage being the same. But the gons appear to be filled end to end. Comments? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Hess" Subject: [PRR] H9 Decal Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:37:51 -0500 I'm detailing a Bowser H9 locomotive and need some advise. Can anyone = recommend the proper decal brand & # to use? Also, what period of = time did PRR paint the smoke box on the H9 graphite and the cab roof and = tender deck oxide? =20 Any help will be greatly apprediated. Thanks, Bob Hess ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C41820.D1C9CD20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

I'm detailing a Bowser H9 = locomotive and need=20 some advise. Can anyone recommend the proper decal brand = &=20 # to use? Also, what period of time did PRR paint the smoke = box on=20 the H9 graphite and the cab roof and tender deck oxide? =

Any help will be greatly = apprediated.

Thanks,

Bob Hess

------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C41820.D1C9CD20-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: RE: [PRR] ANNOUNCING NEW PRR E-MAIL LIST Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:17:41 -0600 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <1318B234-8436-11D8-9533-000A9581CCA6@pennsyrr.com> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I just got home from work and can assess the damage. No, Jerry didn't put me up to this. It was an idea I cooked up months ago. My previous favorite 4/1 message was the resin B1 electric. If I can pat myself on the back here, I think the real genius of this idea was we could count the number people who were fooled by the number of replies with subscribe in the subject line. There seem to be many on the list, but you should see my inbox. Don't worry, I won't share the names . If anything, maybe I proved there is a demand for this type of list. Also, sign me up for "Merchandise Announce Advanced." I guess while I got everyones attention, if you are in the area please come out to the PRRT&HS Chicago Chapter meeting this saturday. It will be 2:00 pm at the Pullman museum. Andy Cich -----Original Message----- On Apr 1, 2004, at 6:39 PM, David Wartell wrote: > I don't know Jerry, are you sure you didn't put him up to it. :-) Swear I didn't! And one of my customers suggested a new list: "Merchandise Announce Advanced", where I announce products that are coming out over the next five years, with an emphasis on eastern roads! ----------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 20:36:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] H9 Decal MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Bob, http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/Im001231.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/scott.JPG Those 2 photos are of Sunset Models H-9s's. Feel free to use them as a guide. As you see, they are finished in two different ways. It just depends on what you prefer when it comes to cab roof color. Some people like the oxide shade, some don't. I am flexiable. Graphite color also varied greatly but was always used for protection. Neither of those locos are mine, just paint jobs. Champ decals makes the ones you need. EH-9SD is for short tenders and I am caught off guard for the proper set number for the "medium" tender. Check Champs online catalog. Hope this helps a bit......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:27:28 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] The Ore Train / Iron Ore From: PRRTRAINS@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:31:14 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] ANNOUNCING NEW PRR E-MAIL LIST This was GREAT. Happy APRIL FOOLS TO ALL... --part1_be.8fb2221.2d9e2a72_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" This was GREAT. Happy APRIL FOOLS T= O ALL... --part1_be.8fb2221.2d9e2a72_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harry Fitch" Subject: [PRR] April 1, 1976 Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:38:44 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Return-Path: prrk4s@msn.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2004 02:38:48.0044 (UTC) FILETIME=[A01B22C0:01C4185B] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Today is Conrail's birthday. April 1, 1976 Now that is an April 1 story! BTW, There are four NYC Hudsons stored serviceable in Celdomscene Ohio. Three J5's and a J7 All are in Penn Central livery. One is using the tender form the 999. Harry Fitch prrk4s@msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] The Ore Train / Iron Ore Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:50:01 -0500 To: robert netzlof X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Apr 1, 2004, at 9:27 PM, robert netzlof wrote: > There are two chemical species which are "iron ore", hematite which > is red ("hema-" comes from the Greek word for "blood") and magnetite > which is "dark gray with a metallic lustre" (and is magnetic, hence > the name). So both could have been present on "The Ore Train" video to Mt. Carmel. Or the red color could have been the rust you alluded to in a later paragraph. Now, moving to the imported ore through Philly, which could have come from Brazil, Liberia, or any of a half dozen other countries, would/could that have also been both varieties? Or was the imported ore more likely to be of one sort or the other? Bottom line, if you were modeling mid-1950s loads, how would you make them look? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] iron ore Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:23:18 -0600 I seem to have lost the posts in this thread in cyberspace, but just a = couple miscellaneous comments after doing a little research. The switch to hematite as the primary type of ore came in the Korean war = due to the demand drying up other natural ores. The source I found said = that pelletizing came into play in the 60's and 70's. I worked for a big = player in pelletizing plants, Allis-Chalmers, though I did not work in = that group, and in addition to the Iron Range, they did a lot near the = artic circle in Sweden, so imports from that area could certainly be = pellets. In a visit to the shops of the former Wisconsin Central shops in Fon Du = Lac a couple years ago, they were repairing some Ortner cars and I = picked up several of the pellets. They were a dark brownish red, FWIW. = (My new wife thought she had married Dennis the Menace, wondering = whether she would find frogs next in my Levi pockets when she found = those "rocks"). Bob Zoeller ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C4182F.8D4B0510 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

I seem to have lost the posts in this = thread in=20 cyberspace, but just a couple miscellaneous comments after doing a = little=20 research.

The switch to hematite as the primary = type of ore=20 came in the Korean war due to the demand drying up other natural = ores. The=20 source I found said that pelletizing came into play in the 60's and = 70's. I=20 worked for a big player in pelletizing plants, Allis-Chalmers, though I = did not=20 work in that group, and in addition to the Iron Range, they did a lot = near the=20 artic circle in Sweden, so imports from that area could certainly be=20 pellets.

In a visit to the shops of the former = Wisconsin=20 Central shops in Fon Du Lac a couple years ago, they were repairing some = Ortner=20 cars and I picked up several of the pellets. They were a dark = brownish=20 red, FWIW. (My new wife thought she had married Dennis the Menace, = wondering=20 whether she would find frogs next in my Levi pockets when she found = those=20 "rocks").

Bob Zoeller

------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C4182F.8D4B0510-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:42:41 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] The Ore Train / Iron Ore Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:59:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] The Ore Train / Iron Ore From: Jamie Bothwell X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out007.verizon.net from [141.158.1.164] at Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:57:58 -0600 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, April 1, 2004, at 10:42 PM, robert netzlof wrote: > So if I had to say, I'd say that hematite is probably more common > that magnetite everywhere. > As someone with some geologic training I would concur with this statement. Jamie Bothwell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:04:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] The Ore Train / Iron Ore MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry, Woodland Scenic has two grades of ore loads (bags) that looks like raw ore. You might want to look into this. Since you model early ore traffic from the east, I don't think you'll have to worry about pellet loads. Besides, no one makes a pellet load (yet). Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Blackhawk" Subject: RE: [PRR] Steam in 2004! Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 20:17:01 -0800 The program, which will officially kick off today with a planned steam start up in about two months, is expected to publish results April 1, 2005. Sounds very April Foolish to me. Anyone have separate confirmation? David ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C41826.4B83A8C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" RE: [PRR] Steam in 2004!

The program, which will officially kick off = today with a planned steam start up in about two months, is expected to publish = results April 1, 2005.

Sounds very April Foolish to = me. Anyone have separate = confirmation?

David

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C41826.4B83A8C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:09:41 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] The Ore Train / Iron Ore Jerry I just got done watching the Ore Train video twice and while watching was talking with a good friend Jim Kerner who is an expert on the Bethlehem Pa . plant of Beth Steel. The cars filled with what looks like a light gray stone are probably dolomite limestone. This was lighter than ore but heavier than coal. The cars are too full to be carrying iron ore. The gons filled to a heap and the full hoppers are probably bituminous coal as are the hoppers at the back of some of the trains. The power plant at the Betlehem plant burned bituminous which the LV and RDG could not supply. According to Jim most came from the PRR from the Beth Steel mines north of Cresson on the C&I. You'll notice some of the hoppers in the trains were C&I cars. Some of the boxcars in the train are probably interchange with the LV but also could contain foundry sand which the Bethlehem plant used in large quantities. It had to be transported in a closed container to prevent contamination. Boxcars were the types used before covered hoppers became the norm. While some of the S-390 ore trains were unit trains of all ore filled hoppers some were also mixed freights with other materials bound for the Bethlehem plant. Hard to get exact answers 50 some years after the fact but these are pretty good educated type answers. ----- Ken McCorry --part1_108.2de93522.2d9e4f95_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Jerry I just=20= got done watching the Ore Train video twice and while watching was talking w= ith a good friend Jim Kerner who is an expert on the Bethlehem Pa . plant of= Beth Steel. The cars filled with what looks like a light gray stone are pro= bably dolomite limestone. This was lighter than ore but heavier than coal. T= he cars are too full to be carrying iron ore. The gons filled to a heap and=20= the full hoppers are probably bituminous coal as are the hoppers at the back= of some of the trains. The power plant at the Betlehem plant burned bitumin= ous which the LV and RDG could not supply. According to Jim most came from t= he PRR from the Beth Steel mines north of Cresson on the C&I. You'll not= ice some of the hoppers in the trains were C&I cars. Some of the boxcars= in the train are probably interchange with the LV but also could contain fo= undry sand which the Bethlehem plant used in large quantities. It had to be=20= transported in a closed container to prevent contamination. Boxcars were the= types used before covered hoppers became the norm. While some of the S-390=20= ore trains were unit trains of all ore filled hoppers some were also mixed f= reights with other materials bound for the Bethlehem plant. Hard to get exac= t answers 50 some years after the fact but these are pretty good educated ty= pe answers. ----- Ken McCorry --part1_108.2de93522.2d9e4f95_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:07:58 EST Subject: [PRR] Mark Kerlick's N8 Review as promised... > Hey Yuze Gize... > > The following is a review of the new Bowser N8 cabin car I promised you all > on Monday. I deliberately delayed it so it would not hit the street prior to > The Keystone Modeler. > > The fellow doing the review is Mark Kerlick and he did a very good job if I > do say so ... maybe he would like my job at The Keystone Modeler... 3^) > > "Greg, > > Mark stopped at English's on his way to the Valley Forge, PA hobby show and > picked up 3 N8 cabins, one PRR (yellow cupola, Pgh. Region, circa 1963), one > PC (white horizontal stripe w/all black roof and cupola, circa 1969) and a > Conrail (small concentric, circa 1979-1984). > > This review is my OPINION and is based on photographs, side by side > comparison of an Alpha Models N8, another manufacturers views on it's > construction, and my overall years in the hobby. This model is a contradiction is > quality. > > I inspected this model very carefully and came up with the following > observations. I'll give the positive aspects first, followed by the not so good > points last. > The model has some parts which I will call "world class." The grab > irons and handrails are the best I have ever seen. The manufacturer who viewed > them concurred. Absolutely perfect. The roofwalk is also on par with the > KADEE roofwalk. The fit of the cupola to the roof and the roof to the body is > also very crisp. Much nicer IMHO than the brass model. The ends have a very > thin cross section and the roofwalk supports meet the roofwalk end perfectly. > However, the collision posts are solid and not channeled as per the > prototype. > > The body has nice rivet detail and appears to have the overall general > feel of the prototype. The molded on hangar on the body side is square Vs > round, but appears to be the correct thickness. > Paint: It appears to be water base. This can lead to some scuffing and > could be prevented by wrapping the body in tissue (more on packaging later). > The color for the PRR, PC, and Conrail look very convincing. The modeler > will have to paint the steps yellow for PC and black for the PRR and Conrail. > The finish is flatter than what we are accustomed to from Bowser. The paint > covers the model very well. > Lettering: The Pennsylvania script appears to be the correct size font. > The script measures 14' 6" across the body. The compendium says 15"4" on an > N5. The photos that I am looking at would suggest that the latter would be > correct. The shadow keystone looks quite nice. The smaller lettering is very > legible under the opti visor. My only complaint is that the Pittsburgh > lettering is ever so slightly smaller than the Region. Overall I think that a > second run through the print pad would be in order to achieve better opaqueness. > There is no end lettering above the door or on the sills. > Windows: My manufacturing contact who reviewed this model commented on > the windows being tooled as an insert, rather than flat. While it does make > for easier assembly, the concaveness of the clear plastic is a detraction. My > suggestion is to cut the window panes away from the insert and sand and > polish to a clear finish. The openings of the windows in the cupola ends are not > quite as tall as the pictures indicate in the various PRR color guides. > Trucks: These are typical PRR 2DF8 style freight trucks commensurate > with those used on other Bowser products. The wheels are plastic and the axles > brass. There is no known truck for the later PRR,PC, or Conrail version. The > Athearn Single leaf truck is close, but has roller bearings. > Detail Parts: The parts seem to be similar, but not as crisp as those of > the Cal Scale Line. In particular the brakewheel (WHICH IS NOT PAINTED!!!). > There are two different smoke stacks included. The brake gear is very > generic. > Overall. The models retails for $29.95. This is the price of an > assembled Genesis Quality Model. For this price one would hope for metal wheels, a > one piece molded brake system, flush fitting clear windows, separate steps > painted to the prototype colors, and a much better brake wheel, again painted > to match the prototype. The packaging is poor. The parts are loose in the > box allowing them to potentially ruin the painted items. I think at the very > least the body should be protected with tissue. > Many modelers will find that this will meet their needs. The more > sophisticated modeler will want to enhance this to a higher level. For example, The > molded on hand rail at the end of the sides could be replaced with wire or > shaped with a hobby knife. The windows need to be sanded and polished. The > steps and brakewheel need painted to match the prototype. The smoke stacks > could be drilled out to appear to be cored. The yellow molded pins will show > through the inside of the porch ends and should be touched up to match the body > color. The underside of the roof has the locater points for the PRR style > antenna system which is available separately. The model can then be weathered > to the modelers taste. > --part1_ac.546c2049.2d9e6b4e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

Hey Yuze Gize...=

The following is a review of the new Bowser N8 cabin car I promised you all=20= on Monday. I deliberately delayed it so it would not hit the street prior to= The Keystone Modeler.

The fellow doing the review is Mark Kerlick and he did a very good job if I=20= do say so ... maybe he would like my job at The Keystone Modeler... 3^)

"Greg,

Mark stopped at English's on his way to the Valley Forge, PA=20= hobby show and picked up 3 N8 cabins, one PRR (yellow cupola, Pgh. Region, c= irca 1963), one PC (white horizontal stripe w/all black roof and cupola, cir= ca 1969) and a Conrail (small concentric, circa 1979-1984).

       This review is my OPINION and is based=20= on photographs, side by side comparison of an Alpha Models N8, another manuf= acturers views on it's construction, and my overall years in the hobby. This= model is a contradiction is quality.

    I inspected this model very carefully and came up with th= e following observations. I'll give the positive aspects first, followed by=20= the not so good points last.
    The model has some parts which I will call "world class."= The grab irons and handrails are the best I have ever seen. The= manufacturer who viewed them concurred. Absolutely perfect. The roofw= alk is also on par with the KADEE roofwalk. The fit of the cupola to t= he roof and the roof to the body is also very crisp. Much nicer IMHO t= han the brass model. The ends have a very thin cross section and the roofwal= k supports meet the roofwalk end perfectly. However, the collision pos= ts are solid and not channeled as per the prototype.

    The body has nice rivet detail and appears to have the ov= erall general feel of the prototype. The molded on hangar on the body side i= s square Vs round, but appears to be the correct thickness.
    Paint: It appears to be water base. This can lead to some= scuffing and could be prevented by wrapping the body in tissue (more on pac= kaging later). The color for the PRR, PC, and Conrail look very convin= cing. The modeler will have to paint the steps yellow for PC and black= for the PRR and Conrail. The finish is flatter than what we are accustomed=20= to from Bowser. The paint covers the model very well.
    Lettering: The Pennsylvania script appears to be the corr= ect size font. The script measures 14' 6" across the body. The c= ompendium says 15"4" on an N5. The photos that I am looking at would s= uggest that the latter would be correct. The shadow keystone looks quite nic= e. The smaller lettering is very legible under the opti visor. My only= complaint is that the Pittsburgh lettering is ever so slightly smaller than= the Region. Overall I think that a second run through the print pad w= ould be in order to achieve better opaqueness. There is no end lettering abo= ve the door or on the sills.
    Windows: My manufacturing contact who reviewed this model= commented on the windows being tooled as an insert, rather than flat. = While it does make for easier assembly, the concaveness of the clear plasti= c is a detraction. My suggestion is to cut the window panes away from the in= sert and sand and polish to a clear finish. The openings of the windows in t= he cupola ends are not quite as tall as the pictures indicate in the various= PRR color guides.
    Trucks: These are typical PRR 2DF8 style freight trucks c= ommensurate with those used on other Bowser products. The wheels are plastic= and the axles brass. There is no known truck for the later PRR,PC, or Conra= il version. The Athearn Single leaf truck is close, but has roller bea= rings.
    Detail Parts: The parts seem to be similar, but not as cr= isp as those of the Cal Scale Line. In particular the brakewheel (WHIC= H IS NOT PAINTED!!!). There are two different smoke stacks included. T= he brake gear is very generic.
    Overall. The models retails for $29.95. This=20= is the price of an assembled Genesis Quality Model. For this price one= would hope for metal wheels, a one piece molded brake system, flush fitting= clear windows, separate steps painted to the prototype colors, and a much b= etter brake wheel, again painted to match the prototype. The packaging= is poor. The parts are loose in the box allowing them to potentially ruin t= he painted items. I think at the very least the body should be protected wit= h tissue.
    Many modelers will find that this will meet their needs.=20= The more sophisticated modeler will want to enhance this to a higher level.=20= For example, The molded on hand rail at the end of the sides could be replac= ed with wire or shaped with a hobby knife. The windows need to be sand= ed and polished. The steps and brakewheel need painted to match the prototyp= e. The smoke stacks could be drilled out to appear to be cored. The ye= llow molded pins will show through the inside of the porch ends and should b= e touched up to match the body color. The underside of the roof has th= e locater points for the PRR style antenna system which is available separat= ely. The model can then be weathered to the modelers taste.

--part1_ac.546c2049.2d9e6b4e_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <221A1D2D-849B-11D8-825E-000A9581CCA6@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Iron Ore - Thanks Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 06:44:43 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: A wealth of iron ore info overnight! Thank you all! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 08:09:15 -0500 From: PRRTRAINS@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Steam in 2004! Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: What about the (Asbestos factor). The environment officials would have a field day... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] The Ore Train / Iron Ore Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 07:20:24 -0600 Further to the cars that carried the ore, there is a photo on page 41 = of the Horseshoe Curve booklet put out by Bob Reid (Pennsy Journal) of = two J's pulling a Westbound "ore" train up the curve in "July, 1954", = with two J's pushing, per the legend. The reason I put the date in = parentheses is that while the second and fourth cars in the train appear = to be H21 or H25 (hard to tell from photo), the first and third cars = look suspiciously like H35 triple hoppers (again hard to tell from = photos). Since latter were ordered in November 1955, according to John = Teichmoeller's book, this photo may be later. Bob Zoeller ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C41882.F6F82850 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Further to the cars that carried the = ore, there=20 is a photo on page 41 of the Horseshoe Curve booklet put out by Bob = Reid=20 (Pennsy Journal) of two J's pulling a Westbound "ore" train up = the curve=20 in "July, 1954", with two J's pushing, per the legend. The reason I = put the=20 date in parentheses is that while the second and fourth cars in the = train=20 appear to be H21 or H25 (hard to tell from photo), the first and third = cars=20 look suspiciously like H35 triple hoppers (again hard to = tell from=20 photos). Since latter were ordered in November 1955, according = to John=20 Teichmoeller's book, this photo may be later.

Bob = Zoeller

------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C41882.F6F82850-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 08:53:19 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Modeling Iron Ore Traffic Page From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <18F87D37-84AD-11D8-86FF-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The web page I did on Modeling Reefer Traffic was very popular. I am now compiling recent posts (and other materials) for a Modeling Iron Ore Traffic page. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] The Ore Train / Iron Ore Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:29:37 +0000 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:47:32 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Original SYLVANIA Big Shot of Horseshoe Curve (LONG) From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <0E214FAA-84BD-11D8-86FF-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: As previously reported, NS and Sylvania will recreate the "SYLVANIA Big Shot" lighting of the Horseshoe Curve on July 4, 2004. From the December 1954 issue of "The Pennsy", here are some notes from the original event on October 20, 1954... Executed at 10:53 p.m. (Anyone know why that time was picked?) Setup began in September, including construction of a 157 foot tower for the camera. 6,000 six foot stakes were cut to hold the lights, and 12,000 pie pans were used as reflectors. More than 100 state and local police were on hand in case of trouble, as were several fire departments. Three trains were staged for inclusion in the picture. "At the east end on No. 2 track was a special freight train with a consist of newly-painted box cars. At the opposite end of the curve, directly below the camera tower on No. 1 track, was a three unit diesel. The center of the attraction, however, was the third train, No. 49 -- 'The Trail Blazer'. This New York-to-Chicago streamliner had been washed by the car-cleaning gang at Sunnyside Yard, N.Y. until it gleamed. Enroute toward the Curve PRR publicity men handed all the passengers a special leaflet explaining the picture-taking and inviting them to help celebrate the Horseshoe Curve's 100th birthday in the dining car where a huge cake, baked by the chefs at Sunnyside Commissary, was to be served." "In the publicity department's temporary press headquarters at the base of the Horseshoe more than a dozen reporters waited by telephones to relay results of the flash to newspapers and wire services." "TWENTY SECONDS!" "Two hundred and fifty feet above the track, atop the special camera tower, Mr. Mutschmann and four Sylvania photographers stopped shivering in the cold and began opening shutters on their black-and-white, color, stereo, and movie cameras." "TEN SECONDS!" "Hundreds of spectators on the ground below craned to peer over the huge area." "FIVE SECONDS!" "On the special platform near the tower Sgt. T.C. Ketenheim of the PRR police shouted out the count to the 150 guests as it came to him by telephone." "FOUR!" Radio listeners in Altoona heard the second-by-second 'count down' in a direct broadcast by station WFBG." "THREE!" "More camera shutters were opened as the 34 press photographers on the guest platform, who had come from all over the East and as far away as Seattle, Wash., prepared to take their own pictures." "TWO!" "Altoona's Mayor Walter H. Grove stood tensely beside a small red button which would set the whole thing off." "ONE!" "Mayor Grove raised his finger." "ZERO!" "The flashbulbs went off with a rippling wave of light. In just 1/15 of a second -- faster than the blink of an eye -- Horseshoe Curve was imprinted on film. The resulting photograph, now already see in hundreds of newspapers, on television, in LIFE magazine, and many other publications..." What are you doing this July 4th? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Original SYLVANIA Big Shot of Horseshoe Curve (LONG) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:10:18 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Not sure that was the time picked - probably running late and 2253hrs was when they got their act together. Wonder how late they made The Trail Blazer, and how annoyed the passengers got at the delay? Bill Bigler > Executed at 10:53 p.m. (Anyone know why that time was picked?) > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:35:05 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: [PRR] HSC photo request for TRAINS magazine Greetings to all: TRAINS magazine is putting together a Horseshoe Curve special issue and has asked me to help steer them toward photos/contributors. If you're so inclined, please consider sending some of your best to: Matt Van Hattem Associate Editor, Trains Magazine 21027 Crossroads Circle Waukesha, WI 53187-1612 You can e-mail him at: MVanHattem@kalmbach.com The magazine's plans for this coverage have developed somewhat suddenly, and they're now in a rush. They'd like to have everything in hand by next Friday (a week from today) so if you can help, I'm sure they'd appreciate seeing as much material as possible. They're looking for all eras, but do have a shortage of very early views and Conrail and NS views. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. --------------090605000305080404020408 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Greetings to all:

TRAINS magazine is putting together a Horseshoe Curve special issue and has asked me to help steer them toward photos/contributors. If you're so inclined, please consider sending some of your best to:

Matt Van Hattem
Associate Editor, Trains Magazine
21027 Crossroads Circle
Waukesha, WI 53187-1612

You can e-mail him at: MVanHattem@kalmbach.com

The magazine's plans for this coverage have developed somewhat suddenly, and they're now in a rush. They'd like to have everything in hand by next Friday (a week from today) so if you can help, I'm sure they'd appreciate seeing as much material as possible. They're looking for all eras, but do have a shortage of very early views and Conrail and NS views.

Dan Cupper
Harrisburg, Pa. --------------090605000305080404020408-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:33:23 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Original SYLVANIA Big Shot of Horseshoe Curve (LONG) From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, April 2, 2004, at 11:10 AM, William Bigler wrote: > Not sure that was the time picked - probably running late and 2253hrs > was > when they got their act together. Wonder how late they made The Trail > Blazer, and how annoyed the passengers got at the delay? > > Bill Bigler > >> Executed at 10:53 p.m. (Anyone know why that time was picked?) Here's a shot in the dark -- no pun intended -- maybe it was the last passenger train within a reasonable window. The article did mention that The Trail Blazer pulled in just a minute or two before the firing, that a line with additional flashes was handed up to the cab so as to include the interior of a cab in what was lit, and that they wanted to get the shot quickly so as to not have the train fall behind schedule. So, the whole thing was probably scheduled around the timing of The Trail Blazer. I didn't realize it when I made the original post, and The Pennsy did not make mention of it, but by the date of the photo, The Trail Blazer had been combined with The General and appears in the timetables with both names. While the consist may have deviated for this event, the assigned consist for this train as of 9/54 was: Mail Storage.....New York to Chicago or Beyond (MS60) (X) Baggage.....New York to Chicago (B60) Sleeping Car.....New York to Los Angeles (PS442) (To Santa Fe No. 17 at Chicago). Sleeping Car.....New York to Chicago (14 sections) "R. Watterson" OR "A. Squire" Sleeping Car.....New York to Chicago (PS21) "Latrobe Inn" OR "Lewistown Inn" Sleeping Car.....New York to Chicago (PS124) "Chimney Creek" OR "Chippewa Creek" Sleeping Car.....New York to Chicago (PS106) "Blue Rapids" OR "Octora Rapids" Lounge Car.....New York to Chicago (PS6L) "Larch Falls" OR "Catulpa Falls" Dining Car.....New York to Chicago (D85C) Dining Car.....New York to Chicago (D85D) Coaches.....New York to Chicago (P85BR) (Four cars) Observation Lounge Coach (Buffet).....New York to Chicago (POC85) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:03:24 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Charlie Vlk now at Broadway Limited Imports From: Jerry Britton In-Reply-To: <004801c418d3$8dad7de0$6401a8c0@DELL02> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: From the N-Scale-Varnish list... This is good news... Charlie is a great contact... and an N scaler to boot! On Friday, April 2, 2004, at 11:57 AM, Charlie Vlk wrote: > I have been an independent consultant (Railroad Model Resources) and > have done work for Atlas, K-Line, LifeLike, E-R Models, and other > clients since leaving Kato almost two years ago. > Effective April 1, I am working as a regular employee for what was my > main client, Broadway Limited. I have done all their painting and > lettering artwork since their third locomotive, the GG1. > And to answer the next question, yes, I am going to lobby them to do > the California Zephyr in N Scale!!! > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Consist of 1954 Trail Blazer Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 13:26:35 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Sleeping car New York to Los Angeles via Santa Fe # 17. Now those were the days! Bill Bigler ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:55:09 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] FREE-MO now STEAMRA -PRO-MO From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Tuesday, March 30, 2004, at 12:38 PM, TGREGMRTN@aol.com wrote: > Bill Daniels writes: > >> Hi Greg, >> >> I've been interested in the FREE-MO concept ever since I first became >> aware of the concept...never did like the NASA-style modular concept >> (endlessly orbiting the layout...)<But the idea does have >> merit...let's see if we can whip up any enthusiasm for this... > > Again I would love to see something serious develope base on PROTOTYPE > MODELERS standards much like FREE-MO. I would be willing to talk... Bill, Greg, et al., Several years ago we played around with the idea of a PRR modular group. I REALLY wanted it to go FREE-Mo, but there was a lot of resistance. The group has pretty much (OK, completely) fallen apart, but the standards we devised are still on the web on Jerry's site at http://prrths-cc.pennsyrr.com/ho_mod_sig/index.html. These could easily serve as a starting point for a less ambitious, more realistic, FREE-Mo based PRR-Mo. I have 2 modules that are currently in the building stages, Wilmington DE (If I ever get the rest of the station together) and the swing bridge over the Christina river on the Shellpot secondary. The biggest problem with the original group was that there was no geographic core that would get together say monthly and work on building modules...It was just too tough to do it all via electrons at the time. I would 1) drop the 4 track (too much need for roundy-round running or staging to derive traffic) 2) forget about grades for now 3) use code 83 instead of 100 (possibly) 4) encourage "destinations" (sidings) on modules Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 14:54:36 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] FREE-MO now STEAMRA -PRO-MO From: k4sb@niia.net Subject: RE: [PRR] Original SYLVANIA Big Shot of Horseshoe Curve (LONG) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 00:02:58 -00 >From: jerry@pennsyrr.com >Subject: RE: [PRR] Original SYLVANIA Big Shot of Horseshoe Curve >Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:47:32 -0500 Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 20:31:27 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Original SYLVANIA Big Shot of Horseshoe Curve (LONG) From: "Frederic H. Abendschein" From: "Harry Fitch" Subject: [PRR] WSM Samhongsa K2s or K3s Confusion- Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:49:28 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Return-Path: prrk4s@msn.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Apr 2004 03:49:32.0716 (UTC) FILETIME=[AC8A6EC0:01C4192E] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Attention Steam Model Experts: Help Wanted, WSM/Samhongsa K2s or K3s Confusion- Folks, I have two class K pacifics imported by West Side Models and built by Samhongsa. WSM/Samhongsa was the only source for imported brass HO scale K2/K3 pacifics. (They also did the N&W E-3 Pacific, ex PRR K3) The Original West Side Catalog numbers are: MO-111 for the K2 MO-112 for the K3 Here is my question. Which one did WSM Market as a K2s and which one did WSM market as a K3s? OR in other words, did they offer different sand dome and bell variations with the K2 and K3 model? I am so confused from looking at the varieties of K2 and K3 prototype and model photographs that the truth gets kind of lost. Do I have two K2 models with different variations or K3 models ditto. I just don't trust the labels anymore. The Brown Book suggests that both models have a pilot dimension discrepancy. I have not measured them but they look like this could be true just by eye comparison. Another note is that every K2 or K3 class engine that I have ever seen a picture of has had the whistle attached directly to the steam dome on the left hand side of the locomotive. Also, I have no photographic evidence that any K2 or K3 ever had the safety valves encircled by anything such as one of the WSM locomotives has. Samhongsa could have taken some license here. Here is my ID problem children descriptions. MODEL NUMBER 1 This model is pristine unpainted and boxed. The WSM box is labeled K2 but does NOT have the WSM CAT number on it anywhere. The model has the following characteristics. Bell is ahead of the sand dome The valve gear has the long "step" built into it. Whistle is on the boiler behind the steam dome. Builders Plate says - K3 Safety Valves are inside a round shield on top of the firebox Both tenders are identical (Even though this box is marked K2 it could have had a box swap, never say never on boxes) MODEL NUMBER 2 This model is without a box or label and has the following characteristics. This is a painted model that I purchased used but is a never been ran model as well. The pilot wheels are spoked (I believe these to have been swapped out or are out of the N&W E-3 model) The bell is behind the sand dome. The valve gear does not have the long "step" Whistle is on the steam dome Builders Plate says - K3 Safety valves are twin mounted and open on top of the firebox I.E. K4s Both tenders are identical (It is NOT the WSM N&W E-3 engine as the details are incorrect for that version.) What's the consensus members? Can somebody please help me out? OR Will the real K2s please stand up? Thanks in Advance, Harry Fitch prrk4s@msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harry Fitch" Subject: [PRR] WSM Samhongsa K2s or K3s Confusion- Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:49:28 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Return-Path: prrk4s@msn.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Apr 2004 03:49:32.0716 (UTC) FILETIME=[AC8A6EC0:01C4192E] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Attention Steam Model Experts: Help Wanted, WSM/Samhongsa K2s or K3s Confusion- Folks, I have two class K pacifics imported by West Side Models and built by Samhongsa. WSM/Samhongsa was the only source for imported brass HO scale K2/K3 pacifics. (They also did the N&W E-3 Pacific, ex PRR K3) The Original West Side Catalog numbers are: MO-111 for the K2 MO-112 for the K3 Here is my question. Which one did WSM Market as a K2s and which one did WSM market as a K3s? OR in other words, did they offer different sand dome and bell variations with the K2 and K3 model? I am so confused from looking at the varieties of K2 and K3 prototype and model photographs that the truth gets kind of lost. Do I have two K2 models with different variations or K3 models ditto. I just don't trust the labels anymore. The Brown Book suggests that both models have a pilot dimension discrepancy. I have not measured them but they look like this could be true just by eye comparison. Another note is that every K2 or K3 class engine that I have ever seen a picture of has had the whistle attached directly to the steam dome on the left hand side of the locomotive. Also, I have no photographic evidence that any K2 or K3 ever had the safety valves encircled by anything such as one of the WSM locomotives has. Samhongsa could have taken some license here. Here is my ID problem children descriptions. MODEL NUMBER 1 This model is pristine unpainted and boxed. The WSM box is labeled K2 but does NOT have the WSM CAT number on it anywhere. The model has the following characteristics. Bell is ahead of the sand dome The valve gear has the long "step" built into it. Whistle is on the boiler behind the steam dome. Builders Plate says - K3 Safety Valves are inside a round shield on top of the firebox Both tenders are identical (Even though this box is marked K2 it could have had a box swap, never say never on boxes) MODEL NUMBER 2 This model is without a box or label and has the following characteristics. This is a painted model that I purchased used but is a never been ran model as well. The pilot wheels are spoked (I believe these to have been swapped out or are out of the N&W E-3 model) The bell is behind the sand dome. The valve gear does not have the long "step" Whistle is on the steam dome Builders Plate says - K3 Safety valves are twin mounted and open on top of the firebox I.E. K4s Both tenders are identical (It is NOT the WSM N&W E-3 engine as the details are incorrect for that version.) What's the consensus members? Can somebody please help me out? OR Will the real K2s please stand up? Thanks in Advance, Harry Fitch prrk4s@msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] WSM Samhongsa K2s or K3s Confusion- Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 23:37:04 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p5 (Debian) at paonline.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Harry, I only have one, so I don't have anything to get mixed up. My box says K2, with no catalog number either. Everything else agrees with your description of your model #2, except I have solid pilot wheels. I am not the first owner - so I cannot swear it is all "original". Jack Consoli ----- Original Message ----- From: Harry Fitch To: PRR-Talk Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 10:49 PM Subject: [PRR] WSM Samhongsa K2s or K3s Confusion- > Attention Steam Model Experts: > Help Wanted, WSM/Samhongsa K2s or K3s Confusion- > > Folks, I have two class K pacifics imported by West Side Models and built by > Samhongsa.... > > MODEL NUMBER 2 > The pilot wheels are spoked (I believe these to have been swapped out or are > out of the N&W E-3 model) > The bell is behind the sand dome. > The valve gear does not have the long "step" > Whistle is on the steam dome > Builders Plate says - K3 > Safety valves are twin mounted and open on top of the firebox I.E. K4s ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "edmund burbage" Subject: [PRR] question Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 08:48:22 -0500 Steve Sejda, did you receive the photo's I sent to you? E-mail me. Lee Burbage ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C41958.6C1BE380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Steve Sejda, did you receive the photo's I sent to you?

E-mail me.

Lee Burbage

------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C41958.6C1BE380-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] mPB-54 question Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 10:36:27 -0600 Message-ID: <5C994455E5EBF6469406E3509002BF612AE4DB@heshmon.academic.trnty.edu> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: mPB-54 question Thread-Index: AcQZmc83/uDeM/BOQ3OsBQhZwxho3w== From: To: , Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hello, all, =20 I've run across a photo of a former mPB54 in service on the Pittsburg = Shamut & Northern. There's no question that it is former PRR. What's = interesting is that at the passenger end of the car, the car end has = almost full-sized square windows, as was common on the early P70's. = When I think of mP54-class cars, I think of the round end windows. The = car diagram on Rob's PRR website has the round windows, but from the = look of the picture to which I'm referring above, the essentially square = windows look original and certainly the PS&N was in no financial = condition to have done much alteration to such a car. =20 So here's my question - since I know that the early P-class coaches had = these same type of essentially square windows (the P53 at Strasburg is = another example), could these have also been used on early mP-class = cars? This is more than an academic question, since I plan to model = some mP-class coaches in non-electirfied service as they looked in 1920. = Could the round windows have been a later modification? Were they = adopted in conjunction with the increasing use of the mP-class cars in = electirc service? Don't forget that while the mP-class cars were = designed to be electrically powered, many were used in the first half of = the twentieth century in areas (for example, Pittsburgh and on locals on = the Middle Div.) that never would be electrified. =20 Your thoughts?? =20 George Pierson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] mPB-54 question Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 10:36:27 -0600 Message-ID: <5C994455E5EBF6469406E3509002BF612AE4DB@heshmon.academic.trnty.edu> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: mPB-54 question Thread-Index: AcQZmc83/uDeM/BOQ3OsBQhZwxho3w== From: To: , Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hello, all, =20 I've run across a photo of a former mPB54 in service on the Pittsburg = Shamut & Northern. There's no question that it is former PRR. What's = interesting is that at the passenger end of the car, the car end has = almost full-sized square windows, as was common on the early P70's. = When I think of mP54-class cars, I think of the round end windows. The = car diagram on Rob's PRR website has the round windows, but from the = look of the picture to which I'm referring above, the essentially square = windows look original and certainly the PS&N was in no financial = condition to have done much alteration to such a car. =20 So here's my question - since I know that the early P-class coaches had = these same type of essentially square windows (the P53 at Strasburg is = another example), could these have also been used on early mP-class = cars? This is more than an academic question, since I plan to model = some mP-class coaches in non-electirfied service as they looked in 1920. = Could the round windows have been a later modification? Were they = adopted in conjunction with the increasing use of the mP-class cars in = electirc service? Don't forget that while the mP-class cars were = designed to be electrically powered, many were used in the first half of = the twentieth century in areas (for example, Pittsburgh and on locals on = the Middle Div.) that never would be electrified. =20 Your thoughts?? =20 George Pierson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 16:50:44 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Galveston Railroad Museum From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" From: "Christopher Baker" Subject: RE: [PRR] mPB-54 question Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 22:53:48 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <5C994455E5EBF6469406E3509002BF612AE4DB@heshmon.academic.trnty.edu> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The original P54 coaches and associated classes all had the large square end-windows when built. The round windows were installed when some of the P54's were rebuilt for MU electric service on the eastern commuter lines. Later MP54's were built with these features right out of the shops. Chris Baker PRRT&HS #1918 -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of George.Pierson@trnty.edu Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 11:36 AM To: PRR@yahoogroups.com; prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] mPB-54 question Hello, all, I've run across a photo of a former mPB54 in service on the Pittsburg Shamut & Northern. There's no question that it is former PRR. What's interesting is that at the passenger end of the car, the car end has almost full-sized square windows, as was common on the early P70's. When I think of mP54-class cars, I think of the round end windows. The car diagram on Rob's PRR website has the round windows, but from the look of the picture to which I'm referring above, the essentially square windows look original and certainly the PS&N was in no financial condition to have done much alteration to such a car. So here's my question - since I know that the early P-class coaches had these same type of essentially square windows (the P53 at Strasburg is another example), could these have also been used on early mP-class cars? This is more than an academic question, since I plan to model some mP-class coaches in non-electirfied service as they looked in 1920. Could the round windows have been a later modification? Were they adopted in conjunction with the increasing use of the mP-class cars in electirc service? Don't forget that while the mP-class cars were designed to be electrically powered, many were used in the first half of the twentieth century in areas (for example, Pittsburgh and on locals on the Middle Div.) that never would be electrified. Your thoughts?? George Pierson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: k4sb@niia.net Subject: [PRR] Walthers PRR cars Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 05:25:09 -00 From: "David Honner" Subject: [PRR] Track Charts Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 17:39:33 +1000 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Some months ago, I was lucky enough to have somebody on this list get in touch with a friend (off list) who sent me some track charts of the Panhandle from just outside Pittburgh to just west of Trinway. Unfortunately my laptop was stolen so I lost not only the track charts but also this person's e-mail. Can anyone help with this request? Do you know someone with these track charts? Much appreciated. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: WAMMP236@aol.com Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 09:05:30 EDT Subject: [PRR] B60 Hello List, can anyone tell me what the B60 baggage car with a desk and some pigeonholes was used for. And was this a B60M? Would also like to know what the proper interior colors are for a B60? Thanks Bill --part1_1da.1e31cc03.2da1621a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"