[PRR] Re: [qsi] Digest Number 87

Do they have the G that is parked at the = station? Since it was the first G to get to Harrisburg.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com]=
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 12:29 PM
To: Chany, Christopher
Cc: Prr-talk
Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [qsi] Digest Number 87

Will have to look at the road numbers and compare to = the freight vs.
passenger assignments. I could use some of each, of = course. Considering
that I'll only have about 30' of visible track under = wire -- the rest
being west of Harrisburg -- I won't invest in a huge = fleet!
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF   Member, = PRRT&HS   jerry@pennsyrr.com
Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N = Scale.
"Keystone Crossings" - Home of the = "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
     http://kc.pennsyrr.com
"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad = products...
     http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com

Skip the traction tires at all costs as they will cause more hea= daches then they are worth. Electrical pick up suffers great= ly due to the lose of conductive contact surface and the amount of dirt= that the traction tires will accumulate. First examine the loco's we= ight, balance on the drivers (all drivers making equal contact with the rail= ) and tracking quality. Please describe the loco you are working on. <= /DIV>

I have a mill and a lathe but would not touch milling groves in=20= a wheel that is already mounted. You are either asking for a lot of wo= rk, more money than it is worth for someone else to do it, and you are proba= bly asking for a lot of trouble. Although some of the higher end engin= es have come equipped with traction tires, my experience is that they=20= should only show up on engines in department store quality train s= ets.

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ

-------------------------------1081476418-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 02:23:28 GMT Subject: [PRR] Model Traction From: Dominic Mazoch From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:42:56 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsylvania Introduces Legislation to Step Up Rail Nothing like letting a politician help you run a "private" enterprise, now is there?! Sounds like another knee jerk reaction. My experience with the NS police -- they need little or no help protecting their property. They are doing a very good -- all by their lonesome. :o) Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1081478576 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

Nothing like letting a politician help you run a "private" enterprise,=20= now is there?! Sounds like another knee jerk reaction. &nbs= p; My experience with the NS police -- they need little or no help protectin= g their property. They are doing a very good -- all by their lonesome.= :o)

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ

-------------------------------1081478576-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 19:07:18 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Want a cabin car? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26259&item=3808920648 &rd=1 Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass X29 in S Scale The REA version has been approved for production http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] Traction Tires Part 2 Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 22:50:20 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gents, I've had a few inquiries into what engine i'd like to install tires on. After contacting customer service to see if i could purchase an extra driving set, I was asking to look into doing a set for the PRR M1 from BLI. If i didn't like it i'd have the original set to re-install. BLI is ready to ship my order at a moments notice for an extra set of wheels and tool. I was looking at getting a set of Stewart traction tires and ask around about installation. If I did get the order, it'd be $30 when its said and done. Thought i'd ask the rest ofthe bunch for an opinion. I know some trusted opinions have said no to traction tires, but does anybody on list have a problem with the BLI N&W A Class tires if they have one? Thanx for the opinions gentelmen. -John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mark Evans" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: Bowser N8 Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 20:07:28 -0700 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <22577-40760533-261@storefull-3116.bay.webtv.net> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gary Mittner said [snip]: >>The molded on coupler pockets need to go too as this class cabin featured a cushioned underframe. If I remember correctly, they extend beyond the end sill about 18"s or so, then the coupler head. I will measure a real one Saturday.<< Check out the following: http://prr.railfan.net/freight/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=n8.gif&fr=cl According to the diagram, the coupler pocket striker should project about 17 scale inches from the end sill. Mark T. Evans Anaheim, CA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] Traction Tires Part 2 Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:18:17 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi John--On the BLI M1a/b there is open space right behind the motor for significant additional weight. Adding weight here also improves the balance of the engine. If you want to add more, weight can be attached under the cab roof and in the steam chest (cylinder assembly). Adding weight is by far the better way to go. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:49:32 -0700 Subject: [PRR] true B60 class cars From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:49:32 -0700 Subject: [PRR] true B60 class cars From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 07:29:10 EDT Subject: [PRR] Zee you zere In a message dated 4/7/04 2:20:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: RE: [PRR] Three Weeks And Counting... > From: "Chany, Christopher" > Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:29:28 -0400 > > Well Jerry and the list, > > I'm signed up and I'm coming from 60 miles north of New York City. Yahoo > says a 10 hr drive. I have heard that they have reached the minimum room > nights needed so they will not be penalized by the hotel. I guess the > question comes down to "What is a successful meeting?" > > I would consider it a success if: > > 1)It doesn't lose money. > 2)The meeting doesn't have too many problems. > 3)People have a good time. > > > Chris Chany > See you there! > Gentlemen: IMHO: 1. The biggest hurdle to not losing money -- having enough rooms reserved as PRRT&HS -- has been passed. Thanks to all who "did this the right way". 2. I'm trusting the group of current and retired professionals in Cincinnati to run the meet so that problems can be minimized for the attendees (behind the scenes, all conventions have problems -- I could tell you scary stories all night). These guys are used to running railroads, Proctor & Gamble, major sales dealerships, and hundred-million-dollar highway projects. I don't think they'll get surprised running a 4 day convention. 3. I've never seen an occasion when Pennsy fans got together and didn't have fun. Annual meets and all the things that go on there are just more fun yet. And while I'm at it, I'll add: 4. You always learn a lot at a PRRT&HS meeting. I try hard never to miss one. This time, you're getting a special opportunity to discover "the other Pennsy" from Lines West specialists. Come see how Pennsy was run (and spoken) with a different accent, once the railroad extended its system west of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. 5. Cincinnati is a fun place to visit -- assuming we don't keep you busy from morning to midnight. You might even find the beer is different. 6. Finally, I'm really looking forward to seeing old friends, and putting faces to the names I only know online. I can't wait! Zee you in Zinzinnati, you bet! Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_119.314c200b.2da7e306_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 4/7/04 2:20:19 P= M Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:

Subject: RE: [PRR] Three Weeks=20= And Counting...
From: "Chany, Christopher" <cpc1@westchestergov.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:29:28 -0400

Well Jerry and the list,

I'm signed up and I'm coming from 60 miles north of New York City. Yahoo
says a 10 hr drive. I have heard that they have reached the minimum ro= om
nights needed so they will not be penalized by the hotel. I guess the<= BR> question comes down to "What is a successful meeting?"

I would consider it a success if:

1)It doesn't lose money.
2)The meeting doesn't have too many problems.
3)People have a good time.

Chris Chany
See you there!

Gentlemen: IMHO:

1. The biggest hurdle to not losing money -- having enough rooms reserved as= PRRT&HS -- has been passed. Thanks to all who "did this the right= way".

2. I'm trusting the group of current and retired professionals in Cinc= innati to run the meet so that problems can be minimized for the attendees (= behind the scenes, all conventions have problems -- I could tell you scary s= tories all night). These guys are used to running railroads, Proctor &= amp; Gamble, major sales dealerships, and hundred-million-dollar highway pro= jects. I don't think they'll get surprised running a 4 day convention.=

3. I've never seen an occasion when Pennsy fans got together and didn'= t have fun. Annual meets and all the things that go on there are just=20= more fun yet.

And while I'm at it, I'll add:
4. You always learn a lot at a PRRT&HS meeting. I try hard n= ever to miss one. This time, you're getting a special opportunity to d= iscover "the other Pennsy" from Lines West specialists. Come see how P= ennsy was run (and spoken) with a different accent, once the railroad extend= ed its system west of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

5. Cincinnati is a fun place to visit -- assuming we don't keep you bu= sy from morning to midnight. You might even find the beer is different= .

6. Finally, I'm really looking forward to seeing old friends, and putt= ing faces to the names I only know online. I can't wait!

Zee you in Zinzinnati, you bet!

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_119.314c200b.2da7e306_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Traction Tires Part 2 Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 08:58:31 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Contrary to another post, I am a fan of traction tires. Yes they do get dirty and need cleaning. They will also require replacement. They will = wear out. They are used for the most part on steam engines which have = insulated drivers on the fireman's side, so loss of pickup is not an issue if only = the insulated drivers are tired. =20 I have double powered several of my old AHM GG-1s by cannibalizing one G = to provide a power truck for the other. They pull the way a G should, but = as a result of installing two power trucks, I did lose one set on pick ups = from the former dummy truck, since both power trucks have traction tires. It = was an annoying, but not crippling problem. I had to keep the wheels = cleaner than usual. I eventually solved the problem by putting wipers on the insulated wheels in the lead and trailing trucks . I feel the underlying problem which traction tires solve is selective compression! We need to shorten the length of out mainline = substantially. The longest HO mainline I know of is 28 scale miles (Pasadena), and that = is a compression horizontally of at least 20 to 1. But vertically our compression tends to be no more than 2 to 1. Thus we wind up with = killer grades the prototype could never handle with a single loco and a = moderate length train. Traction tires help this situation substantially. Yes, before installing traction tire, by all means, assure yourself that = the engine is already carrying maximum weight and is properly balanced and running. One often overlooked data point is the center of gravity of = the loco. It should be centered over the middle of the steam loco drivers, = or mid way between the power truck of a diesel. If it is not, then = concentrate on adding weight at the light end. For example, I have substantially increased the pulling power of my Bowser K4s by adding a block of lead behind the front driver. It sits on top of the frame, mostly obscured = from view by the driver. The original loco had a center of gravity almost = all the way back to the rear driver, so the place for additional weight was = up front. Weight like this will provide disproportionately large benefit. Regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of John = Frantz Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 10:50 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Traction Tires Part 2 Gents, I've had a few inquiries into what engine i'd like to=20 install tires on. After contacting customer service to see=20 if i could purchase an extra driving set, I was asking to=20 look into doing a set for the PRR M1 from BLI. If i didn't=20 like it i'd have the original set to re-install. BLI is=20 ready to ship my order at a moments notice for an extra=20 set of wheels and tool. I was looking at getting a set of=20 Stewart traction tires and ask around about installation.=20 If I did get the order, it'd be $30 when its said and=20 done.=20 Thought i'd ask the rest ofthe bunch for an opinion. I=20 know some trusted opinions have said no to traction tires,=20 but does anybody on list have a problem with the BLI N&W A=20 Class tires if they have one? Thanx for the opinions gentelmen. -John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Traction Tires Part 2 Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 09:10:34 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <007501c41de1$4e02ccf0$3590b73f@hoxiecomp> Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Steve, John, I too have found that large cavity behind the motor of the BLI M1, and filled it with lead. It did improve the capacity of my M1 from 17 cars (plus caboose) to about 21-22 cars (plus caboose), up our club's steep = and curving mountain grades. It moved the CoG from slightly forward of the driver center to slightly aft. That means that additional weight should = go up front to move the CoG on center. I had not thought of the steam = chest. Thanx Steve. Now I have another project on my to do list ;-) Regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of STEPHEN HOXIE Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 11:18 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Traction Tires Part 2 Hi John--On the BLI M1a/b there is open space right behind the motor for significant additional weight. Adding weight here also improves the = balance of the engine. If you want to add more, weight can be attached under = the cab roof and in the steam chest (cylinder assembly). Adding weight is = by far the better way to go. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: RE: [PRR] true B60 class cars Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 13:28:36 +0000 From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] true B60 class cars Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 09:59:29 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <040920041328.12762.4076A5040009E230000031DA2160376021FF929097D1@att.net> Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Right you are! The unintended consequence of a spell checker :-( -----Original Message----- From: b.hom@att.net [mailto:b.hom@att.net]=20 Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 9:29 AM To: Andy Miller Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] true B60 class cars Andy Miller wrote: Some Balloon roof cars had the Diesel truck, similar to those found = under K4 tenders. Were these B60b's or a modernized B60? Anyone know? You do mean "Kiesel" truck, right? Those were under Class B60B cars. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Subject: Re: [PRR] Traction Tires Part Duo Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 12:44:05 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Apr 2004 18:08:46.0459 (UTC) FILETIME=[B371D4B0:01C41E5D] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: IMHO There's no way in heaven or h... that I'd ever put, or want, traction tires on a locomotive. If I purchased (by pure accident, I assure you) any such, the first thing I'd do is try to sell it. And if someone gave me one, I'd do the same, sell it! Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist, Proud SPF PRRTHS #1204 President, Penn Texas Chapter ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Frantz" To: Sent: Thursday, 08 April, 2004 9:50 PM Subject: [PRR] Traction Tires Part 2 > Gents, > > I've had a few inquiries into what engine i'd like to > install tires on. After contacting customer service to see > if i could purchase an extra driving set, I was asking to > look into doing a set for the PRR M1 from BLI. If i didn't > like it i'd have the original set to re-install. BLI is > ready to ship my order at a moments notice for an extra > set of wheels and tool. I was looking at getting a set of > Stewart traction tires and ask around about installation. > If I did get the order, it'd be $30 when its said and > done. > > Thought i'd ask the rest ofthe bunch for an opinion. I > know some trusted opinions have said no to traction tires, > but does anybody on list have a problem with the BLI N&W A > Class tires if they have one? > > Thanx for the opinions gentelmen. > > -John --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.654 / Virus Database: 419 - Release Date: 04/06/2004 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ray Breyer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Traction Tires Part Duo Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 14:00:15 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Thread-Index: AcQeXtfUgnrLoUxdTFC7BI1WkO2uaQABIHZA Message-ID: <1130585278-336160944@dsop.com> Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I actually don't have a problem with traction tires, especially on plastic steam which won't otherwise pull for poo. Every plastic steamer I've bought over the past five years has NEEDED traction tires, and I'm glad that BLI is now planning engines with that as an OPTION. Here's an example of traction tires vs. no traction tires. I've got several Rivarossi Berkshires (I'm also a NKP modeler) that can jug about 75 twin hoppers on the flat (about what the real engine could pull). I've never really had a problem with the TT's, which greatly improve the engine's pulling performance. Unfortunately, the Riv Berk looks horrible when compared to the real thing, so I was very glad to see the new Life Like model come out. This engine has the opposite problem. It's detailing and proto fidelity is better than virtually any brass brass Berkshire ever released, but it can barely pull 25 cars on the flat and 17 cars up a 2.25% grade. Adding traction tires to this engine would get it's performance up to prototype standards. Ray Breyer -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of PennsyNut Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 11:44 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Cc: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Traction Tires Part Duo IMHO There's no way in heaven or h... that I'd ever put, or want, traction tires on a locomotive. If I purchased (by pure accident, I assure you) any such, the first thing I'd do is try to sell it. And if someone gave me one, I'd do the same, sell it! Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist, Proud SPF PRRTHS #1204 President, Penn Texas Chapter ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Frantz" To: Sent: Thursday, 08 April, 2004 9:50 PM Subject: [PRR] Traction Tires Part 2 > Gents, > > I've had a few inquiries into what engine i'd like to > install tires on. After contacting customer service to see > if i could purchase an extra driving set, I was asking to > look into doing a set for the PRR M1 from BLI. If i didn't > like it i'd have the original set to re-install. BLI is > ready to ship my order at a moments notice for an extra > set of wheels and tool. I was looking at getting a set of > Stewart traction tires and ask around about installation. > If I did get the order, it'd be $30 when its said and > done. > > Thought i'd ask the rest ofthe bunch for an opinion. I > know some trusted opinions have said no to traction tires, > but does anybody on list have a problem with the BLI N&W A > Class tires if they have one? > > Thanx for the opinions gentelmen. > > -John --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.654 / Virus Database: 419 - Release Date: 04/06/2004 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian Butcher" Subject: [PRR] Kiesel Tender truck vs 2D-P3 Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 07:34:38 -0400 <<<< Andy Miller wrote: Some Balloon roof cars had the Diesel truck, similar to those found = under K4 tenders. Were these B60b's or a modernized B60? Anyone know? You do mean "Kiesel" truck, right? Those were under Class B60B cars. Ben Hom >>>> Ben; Do you mind pointing me to some PRR documentation that states the 2D-P3 = (B60b truck) and Kiesel tender trucks are one and the same?. Because visually, they are not. The sideframes (especially around the = bearing yoke) are considerably different. Another thing I have noticed = from side view is the centerbeam on the Kiesel tenders were much deeper = than the B60b centerbeam.... Show me some proof, please...because I have been looking for it for = years.... Regards; Brian Butcher ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C41ECE.47C47490 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

<<<<

Andy Miller wrote:
Some Balloon roof cars had the Diesel truck, = similar=20 to those found under K4
tenders. Were these B60b's or a = modernized=20 B60? Anyone know?

You do mean "Kiesel" truck, = right? =20 Those were under Class B60B cars.

Ben = Hom
>>>>

Ben;

Do you mind pointing me to some PRR documentation that states the = 2D-P3=20 (B60b truck) and Kiesel tender trucks are one and the same?.

Because visually, they are not. The sideframes (especially around = the=20 bearing yoke) are considerably different. Another thing I have noticed = from side=20 view is the centerbeam on the Kiesel tenders were much deeper than = the B60b=20 centerbeam....

Show me some proof, please...because I have been looking for it for = years....

Regards;

Brian Butcher

<<<<

Ben;

Do you mind pointing me to some PRR documentation that states the = 2D-P3=20 (B60b truck) and Kiesel tender trucks are one and the same?.

Show me some proof, please...because I have been looking for it for = years....

Regards;

Brian Butcher

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C41ECE.47C47490-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Legislation to Step Up Rail Security Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 07:50:06 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, Jerry B was just ahead of me in my thoughts when I read the post. It is somewhat like the advertising business where you highlight or exaggerate an alleged problem that your product fixes or "cures". Whoever is pushing for this legislation will benefit monetarily if it passes. It has nothing to do with keeping Pennsylvania safe. Try to keep us all scared so this it LOOKS like the government is doing something. The reality is the railroad system is too large to properly guard. Period! There is no amount of money that you can throw at it to make it much better. I have done my share of trespassing in the name of railfanning, including circumventing a gate to drive in on the old logging right of way to get to the back side of the curve. I poked my head up over the highly ballasted track to look straight in at the westerly end of the GP9. This of course was pre 9-11. I would not do it again. The pictures did not turn out well because of the lighting and I was too worried to come out of the woods to get a better vantage point. I was in Dearborn in about 1995 for a NASG convention where I set out with a friend to do some railfanning. This was my first real encounter with Norfolk Southern. I parked in the back corner of a supermarket parking lot (PUBLIC ground) that was at ground level to the ladder of an N S yard. We walked in no more then 50 feet on ground that I am still not sure was N S property. The grass was being cut buy someone. We were also at lest 3 tracks away from any action as well. Less then 4 minutes later an N S police officer arrived. He came out brandishing his clipboard asking for name, address and social security number. There was nothing I could do to change his mind. I think that switcher crew alerted him to our presence. THAT is where your security lies. Railroad employees know what is out of the ordinary. Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass PRR X29 in S Scale The REA version has been approved for production http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:37:51 EDT Subject: [PRR] viruses in .pif files X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5,7-15 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: aurora7@juno.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: While opening my PRR-talk mail last week, I received about 5 random .pif files. Apparently one of them put a virus of some kind on my machine, the point of which is to slow the operations to a crawl. I have scanned with Norton and Spybot, but the effect is still apparent. Did anyone else receive these same messages, and if so, have you been able to isolate and destroy them? I am not sending these out to anyone. Thank you for your patience with this. Dick Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "There are no stupid questions, but there are many inquisitive idiots." ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:37:51 EDT Subject: [PRR] viruses in .pif files X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5,7-15 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: aurora7@juno.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: While opening my PRR-talk mail last week, I received about 5 random .pif files. Apparently one of them put a virus of some kind on my machine, the point of which is to slow the operations to a crawl. I have scanned with Norton and Spybot, but the effect is still apparent. Did anyone else receive these same messages, and if so, have you been able to isolate and destroy them? I am not sending these out to anyone. Thank you for your patience with this. Dick Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "There are no stupid questions, but there are many inquisitive idiots." ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] K2 question Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:17:43 -0500 Message-ID: <5C994455E5EBF6469406E3509002BF612AE4F1@heshmon.academic.trnty.edu> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: K2 question Thread-Index: AcQfBpcj3OGP42w7RGiImBcIi9NAdA== From: To: , Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi, everyone, =20 As I contemplate modeling a K2s, a question has come up. I've looked = over lots of photos and read what I could but here's the question. Some = shots of the K2 show the engine with a cylinder saddle without any c.45% = angle steam pipes coming down to the top of the cylinders. Other images = show a more conventional cylinder arrangement, with the common steam = pipe coming down through the running boards onto the valve portion of = the cylinder housing. This variation seems not to be correlated with = any particular dates or class variations, nor does it seem to connect = with the fitting of super-heaters to some of the earlier versions of the = K2. =20 =20 Does anyone know more about this variation? My gut instinct says the = lack of the steam pipes denotes an earlier construction date but your = thoughts would be appreciated. =20 TIA, =20 George Pierson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] K2 question Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:17:43 -0500 Message-ID: <5C994455E5EBF6469406E3509002BF612AE4F1@heshmon.academic.trnty.edu> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: K2 question Thread-Index: AcQfBpcj3OGP42w7RGiImBcIi9NAdA== From: To: , Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi, everyone, =20 As I contemplate modeling a K2s, a question has come up. I've looked = over lots of photos and read what I could but here's the question. Some = shots of the K2 show the engine with a cylinder saddle without any c.45% = angle steam pipes coming down to the top of the cylinders. Other images = show a more conventional cylinder arrangement, with the common steam = pipe coming down through the running boards onto the valve portion of = the cylinder housing. This variation seems not to be correlated with = any particular dates or class variations, nor does it seem to connect = with the fitting of super-heaters to some of the earlier versions of the = K2. =20 =20 Does anyone know more about this variation? My gut instinct says the = lack of the steam pipes denotes an earlier construction date but your = thoughts would be appreciated. =20 TIA, =20 George Pierson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Paper mill in Tyrone Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:21:40 -0500 Message-ID: <5C994455E5EBF6469406E3509002BF612AE4F2@heshmon.academic.trnty.edu> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Paper mill in Tyrone Thread-Index: AcQfByRQQ6hXdWbOTxGPQGS06bpiKw== From: To: , Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hello, all, =20 I know that by the 1923 CT 1000 there were two large paper mills in = Tyrone operated by West Virginia Paper & Pulp. Does anyone know when = these plants began operation? Also were there any other large paper = mills in reasonably close proximity to the Middle Division? I'm asking = because at least one of the smaller feeder lines connecting with the = Middle Div, the Tuscarora Valley at Port Royal, shipped a fair amount of = what appears to be pulp wood to Port Royal for trans-shipment to the PRR = and I was trying to figure out likely places it might have gone. =20 TIA, =20 George Pierson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Paper mill in Tyrone Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:21:40 -0500 Message-ID: <5C994455E5EBF6469406E3509002BF612AE4F2@heshmon.academic.trnty.edu> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Paper mill in Tyrone Thread-Index: AcQfByRQQ6hXdWbOTxGPQGS06bpiKw== From: To: , Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hello, all, =20 I know that by the 1923 CT 1000 there were two large paper mills in = Tyrone operated by West Virginia Paper & Pulp. Does anyone know when = these plants began operation? Also were there any other large paper = mills in reasonably close proximity to the Middle Division? I'm asking = because at least one of the smaller feeder lines connecting with the = Middle Div, the Tuscarora Valley at Port Royal, shipped a fair amount of = what appears to be pulp wood to Port Royal for trans-shipment to the PRR = and I was trying to figure out likely places it might have gone. =20 TIA, =20 George Pierson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 07:50:06 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Legislation to Step Up Rail Security Hi All, Jerry B was just ahead of me in my thoughts when I read the post. It is somewhat like the advertising business where you highlight or exaggerate an alleged problem that your product fixes or "cures". Whoever is pushing for this legislation will benefit monetarily if it passes. It has nothing to do with keeping Pennsylvania safe. Try to keep us all scared so this it LOOKS like the government is doing something. The reality is the railroad system is too large to properly guard. Period! There is no amount of money that you can throw at it to make it much better. I have done my share of trespassing in the name of railfanning, including circumventing a gate to drive in on the old logging right of way to get to the back side of the curve. I poked my head up over the highly ballasted track to look straight in at the westerly end of the GP9. This of course was pre 9-11. I would not do it again. The pictures did not turn out well because of the lighting and I was too worried to come out of the woods to get a better vantage point. I was in Dearborn in about 1995 for a NASG convention where I set out with a friend to do some railfanning. This was my first real encounter with Norfolk Southern. I parked in the back corner of a supermarket parking lot (PUBLIC ground) that was at ground level to the ladder of an N S yard. We walked in no more then 50 feet on ground that I am still not sure was N S property. The grass was being cut buy someone. We were also at lest 3 tracks away from any action as well. Less then 4 minutes later an N S police officer arrived. He came out brandishing his clipboard asking for name, address and social security number. There was nothing I could do to change his mind. I think that switcher crew alerted him to our presence. THAT is where your security lies. Railroad employees know what is out of the ordinary. Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass PRR X29 in S Scale The REA version has been approved for production http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 07:50:06 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Legislation to Step Up Rail Security Hi All, Jerry B was just ahead of me in my thoughts when I read the post. It is somewhat like the advertising business where you highlight or exaggerate an alleged problem that your product fixes or "cures". Whoever is pushing for this legislation will benefit monetarily if it passes. It has nothing to do with keeping Pennsylvania safe. Try to keep us all scared so this it LOOKS like the government is doing something. The reality is the railroad system is too large to properly guard. Period! There is no amount of money that you can throw at it to make it much better. I have done my share of trespassing in the name of railfanning, including circumventing a gate to drive in on the old logging right of way to get to the back side of the curve. I poked my head up over the highly ballasted track to look straight in at the westerly end of the GP9. This of course was pre 9-11. I would not do it again. The pictures did not turn out well because of the lighting and I was too worried to come out of the woods to get a better vantage point. I was in Dearborn in about 1995 for a NASG convention where I set out with a friend to do some railfanning. This was my first real encounter with Norfolk Southern. I parked in the back corner of a supermarket parking lot (PUBLIC ground) that was at ground level to the ladder of an N S yard. We walked in no more then 50 feet on ground that I am still not sure was N S property. The grass was being cut buy someone. We were also at lest 3 tracks away from any action as well. Less then 4 minutes later an N S police officer arrived. He came out brandishing his clipboard asking for name, address and social security number. There was nothing I could do to change his mind. I think that switcher crew alerted him to our presence. THAT is where your security lies. Railroad employees know what is out of the ordinary. Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass PRR X29 in S Scale The REA version has been approved for production http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 11:39:11 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Kiesel Tender truck vs 2D-P3 List, The Kiesel tender truck looks similar to the 2D-P3 but from the photos I have looked at in the many PRR books there are very few of the 2D-P3 trucks under the B60b and those views are not very clear. The Kiesel tender truck has more curve at the bolster and over the journal box area and beyond along with the two holes at both ends of the truck. The 2D-P3 under the B60b appears to be straighter across the top and the area were the journal box is appears to be different in design also. There appears to be only one hole at each end of the truck along the top of the frame. Both trucks seem to be similar with the bolster spring area. The 2D-P3 trucks in the pictures are always in shadows and some of the upper detail is very hard to see. Anyone know of a location of a B60b that has the 2D-P3 trucks that can get a good photo when there is good light? Pat McKinney --part1_85.9223086.2da96f1f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" List,
The Kiesel tender truck looks sim= ilar to the 2D-P3 but from the photos I have looked at in the many PRR books= there are very few of the 2D-P3 trucks under the B60b and those views are n= ot very clear. The Kiesel tender truck has more curve at the bolster and ove= r the journal box area and beyond along with the two holes at both ends of t= he truck. The 2D-P3 under the B60b appears to be straighter across the top a= nd the area were the journal box is appears to be different in design also.=20= There appears to be only one hole at each end of the truck along the top of=20= the frame. Both trucks seem to be similar with the bolster spring area.
The 2D-P3 trucks in the pictures are always in shadows an= d some of the upper detail is very hard to see. Anyone know of a location of= a B60b that has the 2D-P3
trucks that can get a good photo when there is good light?

Pat McKinney --part1_85.9223086.2da96f1f_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John H. Wright" Subject: [PRR] Layout Visits? Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 16:56:52 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Less than 3 weeks to go to Cincinnati. Would anyone out there in Pennsy Lines West territory care to tell us about the layouts on the visit list, please? Regards, John H. Wright Washington, England ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 14:00:09 -0400 From: Zak Subject: [PRR] "short" Heavyweight Cars Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 14:00:09 -0400 From: Zak Subject: [PRR] "short" Heavyweight Cars Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com From: Listmaster Subject: LISTMASTER Re: [PRR] viruses in .pif files Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 14:29:22 -0400 To: aurora7@juno.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Please provide absolute PROOF that you received these through the list before making such accusations. The listserv software has been set up to disallow attachments. IF attachments are going through, I need to know about it, and I need to know which messages they arrived in. MOST viruses arrive via e-mails with forged headers... Translation: It "appears" to come from someone you know -- or PRR-talk -- but that is only because the virus "steals" the return address from an address in the infected computer's address book. That is to say, someone who has "prr-talk@dsop.com" in their address book is infected. Further looking at the "full headers" of the "supposed" email will show what IP address it came from. I will all but guarantee you that it will not trace back to the DSOP.COM servers. Please check and have all the facts. Then contact the listmaster, me, before going public with what I am confident is a misguided accusation. Thank you. On Apr 10, 2004, at 9:37 AM, aurora7@juno.com wrote: > While opening my PRR-talk mail last week, I received about 5 random > .pif > files. Apparently one of them put a virus of some kind on my machine, > the point of which is to slow the operations to a crawl. I have > scanned > with Norton and Spybot, but the effect is still apparent. Did anyone > else receive these same messages, and if so, have you been able to > isolate and destroy them? > I am not sending these out to anyone. Thank you for your patience with > this. ---------------------------------------- Listmaster listmaster@dsop.com Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:56:11 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Cut East of Summerhill MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Can anyone tell me if the PRR Cut East of Summerhill,which now has RT53 running through it was made by the PRR or the portage RR? I found 2 references stating the cut was 1830s Portage RR. Would the PRR have shared the cut in 1854 as they did with the viaduct at Mineral Point? Anyone have a valuation map of the area? Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:56:11 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Cut East of Summerhill MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Can anyone tell me if the PRR Cut East of Summerhill,which now has RT53 running through it was made by the PRR or the portage RR? I found 2 references stating the cut was 1830s Portage RR. Would the PRR have shared the cut in 1854 as they did with the viaduct at Mineral Point? Anyone have a valuation map of the area? Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:59:59 -0400 Subject: [PRR] 1361 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Anyone hear any news on the progress or lack of on 1361? I'm curious if the steam dome has been repaired. Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 18:26:03 EDT Subject: Re: LISTMASTER Re: [PRR] viruses in .pif files X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 6,9-16 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: aurora7@juno.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hopefully the little beast didn't come through the PRRTalk system. My impression is that it came through mail tht came to me labeled as being from the group.. It might well be that another program has stolen addresses and labeled it's time bomb using that designation. I have isolated the infection to a Windows file, "EasyVu.exe", which apparently can not be deleted. The bug is a varient of W32Netzky. I am using Norton 2001 and Spybot to scan. I wasn't trying to ruffle your feathers, I was trying to determine if others had received the same bomb. From the replies I received, I'd say they had. Please don't kill the messenger! Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "There are no stupid questions, but there are many inquisitive idiots." ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 19:02:48 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Cut East of Summerhill MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Thanks Pat. I know the Row swung to the North on the west side of the cut. You can still see the small cut along Rt 53 just East of Summerhill where it joined the existing (1900) RoW. T1 has a 1910 track chart showing both lines in use. Its had to imagine the Portage RR making a cut like that in the 1830s with pick and shovel.Black powder maybe?? On the East side of the cut there was a stone arch bridge. Relatives remember it there when new Rt53 opened. Im certain the Portage RR stayed on North side of the river from the cut to Portage. The Original PRR Row can still be seen on the south side just west of Wilmore. Pat wrote [PRR] Cut East of Summerhill Mark, =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 I am almost sure that the portion of Pa Rt 53 going through that cut was part of the former Portage(which portion,I am not sure) but would need to check the maps later when I can. Seems that when you come out of the cut going west, just as you go over the N.fork of the little Cgh river, that the R/W swung north to the existing PRR R/W through that open field in front of the former coal yard. =A0=A0 I just spent a day there this past week surfacing No.3 track. Pat McKinney ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 19:25:46 -0400 Subject: RE: [PRR] Cut East of Summerhill MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Thanks Doug, Thats what I thought too after reading T1 and checking a map I got from Pat M. However there is a reference in Summerhills Centennial book to the cut being of the Portage RR( book still available 11.00$ if anyone wants one) Also a 1948 newspaper article about the trolly system in the area refers to the cut as the Portage RR Cut. I need to take a trip to Ebensburg and see if I can locate some maps. Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Duane C. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Paper mill in Tyrone Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 23:20:29 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: According to a book that I have, the paper mill in Tyrone opened in 1878. Other paper mills along the PRR in Central Pennsylvania included Lock Haven, Roaring Spring, and Williamsburg. Duane Miller ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 10:21 AM Subject: [PRR] Paper mill in Tyrone Hello, all, I know that by the 1923 CT 1000 there were two large paper mills in Tyrone operated by West Virginia Paper & Pulp. Does anyone know when these plants began operation? Also were there any other large paper mills in reasonably close proximity to the Middle Division? I'm asking because at least one of the smaller feeder lines connecting with the Middle Div, the Tuscarora Valley at Port Royal, shipped a fair amount of what appears to be pulp wood to Port Royal for trans-shipment to the PRR and I was trying to figure out likely places it might have gone. TIA, George Pierson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 23:30:51 EDT Subject: [PRR] Traction tires III In a message dated 4/10/04 1:12:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: RE: [PRR] Traction Tires Part Duo > From: "Ray Breyer" > Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 14:00:15 -0500 > > I actually don't have a problem with traction tires, especially on plastic > steam which won't otherwise pull for poo. Every plastic steamer I've bought > over the past five years has NEEDED traction tires, and I'm glad that BLI is > now planning engines with that as an OPTION. > > Here's an example of traction tires vs. no traction tires. I've got several > Rivarossi Berkshires (I'm also a NKP modeler) that can jug about 75 twin > hoppers on the flat (about what the real engine could pull). I've never > really had a problem with the TT's, which greatly improve the engine's > pulling performance. Unfortunately, the Riv Berk looks horrible when > compared to the real thing, so I was very glad to see the new Life Like > model come out. This engine has the opposite problem. It's detailing and > proto fidelity is better than virtually any brass brass Berkshire ever > released, but it can barely pull 25 cars on the flat and 17 cars up a 2.25% > grade. Adding traction tires to this engine would get it's performance up > to prototype standards. > > Ray Breyer > Next question is, how often do you have to clean your track? I know of no safe way (other than replacement) to get traction tires clean. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_65.269321d1.2daa15eb_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 4/10/04 1:12:05=20= AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:

Subject: RE: [PRR] Traction Tir= es Part Duo
From: "Ray Breyer" <rbreyer@cesinfo.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 14:00:15 -0500

I actually don't have a problem with traction tires, especially on plastic steam which won't otherwise pull for poo. Every plastic steamer I've b= ought
over the past five years has NEEDED traction tires, and I'm glad that BLI is=
now planning engines with that as an OPTION.

Here's an example of traction tires vs. no traction tires. I've got several<= BR> Rivarossi Berkshires (I'm also a NKP modeler) that can jug about 75 twin
hoppers on the flat (about what the real engine could pull). I've neve= r
really had a problem with the TT's, which greatly improve the engine's
pulling performance. Unfortunately, the Riv Berk looks horrible when compared to the real thing, so I was very glad to see the new Life Like
model come out. This engine has the opposite problem. It's detailing a= nd
proto fidelity is better than virtually any brass brass Berkshire ever
released, but it can barely pull 25 cars on the flat and 17 cars up a 2.25%<= BR> grade. Adding traction tires to this engine would get it's performance= up
to prototype standards.

Ray Breyer

Next question is, how often do you have to clean your track? I know of= no safe way (other than replacement) to get traction tires clean.

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_65.269321d1.2daa15eb_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 23:30:51 EDT Subject: [PRR] Traction tires III In a message dated 4/10/04 1:12:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: RE: [PRR] Traction Tires Part Duo > From: "Ray Breyer" > Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 14:00:15 -0500 > > I actually don't have a problem with traction tires, especially on plastic > steam which won't otherwise pull for poo. Every plastic steamer I've bought > over the past five years has NEEDED traction tires, and I'm glad that BLI is > now planning engines with that as an OPTION. > > Here's an example of traction tires vs. no traction tires. I've got several > Rivarossi Berkshires (I'm also a NKP modeler) that can jug about 75 twin > hoppers on the flat (about what the real engine could pull). I've never > really had a problem with the TT's, which greatly improve the engine's > pulling performance. Unfortunately, the Riv Berk looks horrible when > compared to the real thing, so I was very glad to see the new Life Like > model come out. This engine has the opposite problem. It's detailing and > proto fidelity is better than virtually any brass brass Berkshire ever > released, but it can barely pull 25 cars on the flat and 17 cars up a 2.25% > grade. Adding traction tires to this engine would get it's performance up > to prototype standards. > > Ray Breyer > Next question is, how often do you have to clean your track? I know of no safe way (other than replacement) to get traction tires clean. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_65.269321d1.2daa15eb_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 4/10/04 1:12:05=20= AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:

Subject: RE: [PRR] Traction Tir= es Part Duo
From: "Ray Breyer" <rbreyer@cesinfo.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 14:00:15 -0500

I actually don't have a problem with traction tires, especially on plastic steam which won't otherwise pull for poo. Every plastic steamer I've b= ought
over the past five years has NEEDED traction tires, and I'm glad that BLI is=
now planning engines with that as an OPTION.

Here's an example of traction tires vs. no traction tires. I've got several<= BR> Rivarossi Berkshires (I'm also a NKP modeler) that can jug about 75 twin
hoppers on the flat (about what the real engine could pull). I've neve= r
really had a problem with the TT's, which greatly improve the engine's
pulling performance. Unfortunately, the Riv Berk looks horrible when compared to the real thing, so I was very glad to see the new Life Like
model come out. This engine has the opposite problem. It's detailing a= nd
proto fidelity is better than virtually any brass brass Berkshire ever
released, but it can barely pull 25 cars on the flat and 17 cars up a 2.25%<= BR> grade. Adding traction tires to this engine would get it's performance= up
to prototype standards.

Ray Breyer

<<<<

You do mean "Kiesel" truck, right? Those were under Class = B60B=20 cars.

Ben Hom
>>>>

Many thanks to Pat McKinney, who through diligent research, = was able=20 to confirm the identity of the "similar" truck....

K4s (and other) tender application =3D 2F-T2

B60b (and lone P70) application =3D 2D-P3

Indeed, they were different

Regards;

Brian Butcher

------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C41F67.968074F0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian Butcher" Subject: [PRR] More 2F-T2 vs 2D-P3 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 14:58:33 -0400 Sorry if I jump in the middle of something here (I get PRR-Talk in = Digest form), but Pats e-mail got me digging again and I found an = excellent reference photo I had missed before (The Many faces of the = Pennsy K4 - pg. 97 ) with 3/4 train view of a (K4s) 2F-T2 and (B60b) = 2D-P3 back to back... The view clearly shows the different contours of the two sideframes. Brian Butcher ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C41FD5.75D25430 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Sorry if I jump in the middle of something here (I get = PRR-Talk in=20 Digest form), but Pats e-mail got me digging again and I found an = excellent=20 reference photo I had missed before (The Many faces of the Pennsy K4 - = pg.=20 97 ) with 3/4 train view of a (K4s) 2F-T2 and (B60b) 2D-P3 back to=20 back...

The view clearly shows the different contours of the two = sideframes.

Brian Butcher

------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C41FD5.75D25430-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:01:52 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: [PRR] Timetable cover art, then and now Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Greetings to Jerry and the List: In the 1940s and early 1950s, Grif Teller's PRR wall-calendar art was routinely reproduced in glorious four-color printing on the covers of PRR Form 1 timetables. The most recent year's scene to be so used was that of 49 years ago -- Mass Transportation (1955), showing GG1s lined up at the Army-Navy Game in Philadelphia. As a footnote, PRR's final full-color system timetable cover, issued later in 1955, actually used an earlier painting, Horseshoe Curve (1952). Also, the 1956 painting, Dynamic Progress, showing the Aerotrain and a TrucTrain east of Duncannon, was used on timetables in 1956, but it appeared in not-so-glorious black and white. Since that time, no railroad has picked up the torch for using full-color oil-painting art (not illustration) on the cover of its timetables, with the single exception of a Gil Reid Amtrak cover in 1976. All of this to say keep an eye out for the summer 2004 Amtrak system timetable, whose cover will carry an original oil painting of the Empire Builder near Glacier National Park, commemorating the train's 75th anniversary, by Pittsburgh native J. Craig Thorpe. Craig painted Amtrak calendar paintings for 1993 (Olympia, Wash. station), 1995 (Capitol Limited at Harper's Ferry), and 1996 (Talgo). He's no stranger to PRR subjects, having done work for numerous state DOTs, including PennDOT, for which he painted a scene showing the proposed new Amtrak station at Harrisburg International Airport at MP 96 on the electrified Philadelphia-Harrisburg main line. In addition, he painted a scene showing the Swedish X2000 at Gap curve, MP51 on the Philadelphia-Harrisburg main line. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 18:24:52 -0400 From: Rob McKeever Subject: [PRR] RF&P list move X-AOL-IP: 4.10.28.105 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: All, For those that may be interested, the RF&P listserv is in the process of moving to Yahoogroups after a 6 year reign on PSU's servers: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RFandPRR/ Any and all interested in the RF&P, past or present, are welcome. PRR Interchanged with (and part-owned) the RF&P. Rob McKeever robmckii@aol.com Manassas VA http://www.rfandp.org/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Warsaw, Indiana; Palm Sunday 1965 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:41:10 -0500 April 11, 1965 Many of you on this list may not know the significance of this date. But = in the northern midwest, it is very significant. Today is the 39th = anniversary of the super-outbreak of tornadoes in which nearly 50 = tornadoes struck the Great Lakes region on April 11-12, causing 271 = deaths and more than 3,400 injuries. Indiana received the brunt of this = outbreak; 11 tornadoes struck 20 counties in central and northern = Indiana, killing 137 people. More than 1,700 people were injured and = property damage exceeded $30 million. It was, and still is Indiana's = worst tornado disaster. This outbreak also directly effected operations on the Pennsylvania = Railroad. The following is a chronology of events that unfolded at KS = tower in Warsaw, Indiana on the Fort Wayne line. 4:00PM: The weather entry on the CT 355-A at 4pm was cloudy and 72 = degrees, which was very warm for that time of year. In the days leading = to April 11, it was very unseasonably warm with highs averaging in the = mid-60's.=20 The storm front was rapidly approaching from the west and went through = the northern Indiana area from 5-7 pm, traveling north-northeast at 60 = miles per hour.=20 =20 5:30PM: The first reports of tornados in northern Indiana were made. The = first tornado sightings were at Hamlet and Wanatah, both located along = the Ft. Wayne line. Both of these tornadoes touched down south of the = Pennsy and eventually crossed over the mainline. The Wanatah twister = crossed the PRR line half way between Wanatah and Hanna while the Hamlet = tornado crossed the Ft. Wayne line just east of Hamlet and within 1/4 = mile of Hamlet tower.=20 The following picture is the tornado that went though Wanatah and = crossed over the Fort Wayne Line between Wanatah and Hanna: = http://www.mammatus.com/PSO/WANATAH_TOR_1.GIF Within the next hour (5:30-6:30pm), 5 tornadoes would touch down in = northern Indiana especially in the vicinity of Elkhart and Goshen. It = was determined that all of these tornadoes reached the strength of at = least F-4 (on the Fugita scale) during their violent lives. On the Fort = Wayne line, the most intense thunderstorm and tornadic activity was = occurring west of Warsaw between Plymouth and Wanatah. =20 =20 6:50PM: Operations at KS tower in Warsaw appear normal until 6:50pm when = train 53, the westbound Fort Pitt, arrives in Warsaw. This all-coach = train was due at Warsaw at 7:00pm and would typically make a short = station stop. However, the Fort Pitt was then held at Warsaw until = 9:46pm, departing almost 3 hours later.=20 =20 6:58PM: An entry at the bottom of the CT-355-A train sheet reads: "Red = West at Vandale at 6:58pm." Vandale is in Columbia City, east of Warsaw. = This stop condition for westbound traffic may be due to power outages = and downed communication lines west of Warsaw. However, it may have = been a dispatcher order influenced directly by the U.S. Weather Bureau. = For the first time ever in the history of U.S. Weather Bureau, its South = Bend office issued a "Blanket Tornado Warning" for all nine of its = counties under its warning jurisdiction in Indiana and Michigan. This = warning was issued approximately 6-6:30pm due to the numerous tornadoes = on the ground and the severity of the incoming damage reports. Never = before, and not since Palm Sunday 1965, had this extraordinary measure = ever been taken, to ensure the safety of the population against such = life threatening weather conditions. The Fort Wayne line went through = the southern third of these counties.=20 =20 Also, trains 28 (the eastbound Broadway Limited) and train 50 (the = eastbound Admiral) did not appear that evening at Warsaw. In the = Transfer Record section of the CT 355-A for 10:00pm, it is written in = the Overdue Trains section: "No. 28 - 50 Back" Train 28 typically was 41 = minutes behind the 48, "The General," which passed Warsaw at 5:06pm, = just before the weather turned bad. It is possible that Train 28 (The = Broadway Limited) may have been held, like train 53, at Gary or = Valparaiso, west of the storms. Train 50, the Admiral, probably never = left Chicago. Freight trains that did not show at Warsaw included CS-8.=20 =20 1:30AM April 12: A wreck train, pulled by GP-35 2290, passed Warsaw = tower and heads west. It shows up again eastbound at Warsaw at 1:48PM, = over twelve hours later. It is not known the reasons for the wreck = train. According to press reports, there were no known trains that were = caught by the storms. The last westbound freight before the storms was = WC-9 that passed Warsaw at 2:29pm. It is likely that the the wreck train = was heading to Hamlet and maybe to the vicinity of Hanna and Wanatah to = clear downed trees, poles and debris from the tracks where the tornadoes = crossed over the main line. Perhaps the wreck train was also used to = upright freight cars on sidings that were tipped over by the straight = line winds. =20 Train 28, the eastbound Broadway Limited, did eventually run and arrived = in Warsaw at 8:02 am on April 12, almost 12 hours late. Train 50, the = Admiral, did not run until is regularly scheduled time the next evening. = Also on the evening of the April 12, there were two sections of CS-8 = which may have been an attempt to make up for the absence of the train = on the night of the April 11. Trains GRE-2 and FW-8 did run on the = morning of the April 12 but approximately 2-3 hours behind their = regularly scheduled times. By the afternoon of April 12, train = operations at KS tower in Warsaw appear to go back to normal. =20 Attached is a web site photo showing one of these Palm Sunday tornadoes. = http://www.mammatus.com/PSO/HUFFMAN_TOR_4.GIF It is a famous picture that many of you have probably seen before. I = present it because of an unusual railroad reference. The location just = northwest of Goshen, Indiana. The photographer is looking the northwest = towards Dunlap and Elkhart. The roadway in the foreground is US 33 and = the railroad is the New York Central main line. The twin vortex tornado = is traveling northeast (left to right) at a speed of 60 miles per hour. = It is a sobering thought that as this photo was being taken, the F-4 = tornado was ripping through a trailer park, killing 10 including an = entire family of 6. According to newspaper reports, many people in this = area were caught off guard by the fast moving storm; many initially = thought that the sound that they heard was a train on the NYC.=20 For more information on the Palm Sunday tornado outbreak, click on the = following website. It has allot of original articles and a TON of = photographs of the storms.=20 http://www.mammatus.com/outbreak65.html Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C42016.16204740 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

April = 11,=20 1965

Many = of you on this=20 list may not know the significance of this date. But in the northern = midwest, it=20 is very significant. Today is the 39th anniversary of the super-outbreak = of tornadoes in which nearly 50 tornadoes struck the Great = Lakes=20 region on April 11-12, causing 271 deaths and more than 3,400=20 injuries. Indiana received the brunt of this outbreak; 11 tornadoes = struck=20 20 counties in central and northern Indiana, killing 137 people. More = than 1,700=20 people were injured and property damage exceeded $30 million. It was, = and still=20 is Indiana's worst tornado disaster.

This=20 outbreak also directly effected operations on the Pennsylvania = Railroad.=20 The following is a chronology of events that unfolded at KS = tower in=20 Warsaw, Indiana on the Fort Wayne line.

4:00PM: The weather entry on the CT 355-A at = 4pm was cloudy and 72 degrees, which = was very=20 warm for that time of year. In the days leading to April 11, it was = very=20 unseasonably warm with highs averaging in the mid-60's.

The = storm front was=20 rapidly approaching from the west and went through the northern=20 Indiana area from = 5-7 pm, traveling north-northeast at 60 miles = per=20 hour.

5:30PM: The first reports of tornados in = northern Indiana=20 were made. The first tornado sightings were at Hamlet and Wanatah, both = located=20 along the Ft.=20 Wayne line. Both of these = tornadoes=20 touched down south of the Pennsy and eventually crossed over the = mainline.=20 The Wanatah twister crossed the PRR line half way between Wanatah and = Hanna=20 while the Hamlet tornado crossed the Ft. Wayne line just east of Hamlet = and=20 within 1/4 mile of Hamlet tower.

The = following=20 picture is the tornado that went though Wanatah and crossed over = the Fort=20 Wayne Line between Wanatah and Hanna: http://www.mammatu= s.com/PSO/WANATAH_TOR_1.GIF

Within = the next hour=20 (5:30-6:30pm), 5 tornadoes would touch down in northern=20 Indiana especially in the vicinity of Elkhart and=20 Goshen. It was determined that all of these = tornadoes=20 reached the strength of at least F-4 (on the Fugita scale) during = their=20 violent lives. On the Fort Wayne line, the most intense thunderstorm and = tornadic activity was occurring west of Warsaw between Plymouth and=20 Wanatah.

6:50PM: Operations at KS tower in=20 Warsaw appear normal until = 6:50pm when train 53, the westbound = Fort=20 Pitt, arrives in=20 Warsaw. This all-coach train = was due=20 at Warsaw at 7:00pm and would typically make a short station stop. = However, the=20 Fort Pitt was then held at=20 Warsaw until 9:46pm, departing almost 3 hours later. =

6:58PM: An entry at the bottom of the CT-355-A = train=20 sheet reads: =93Red West at Vandale at 6:58pm.=94 Vandale is in Columbia = City, east of=20 Warsaw. This stop condition = for=20 westbound traffic may be due to power outages and downed communication = lines=20 west of Warsaw. However, it may have been a = dispatcher=20 order influenced directly by the U.S. Weather Bureau. For the first time = ever in=20 the history of U.S. Weather Bureau, its South=20 Bend office issued a "Blanket Tornado Warning" = for all=20 nine of its counties under its warning jurisdiction in=20 Indiana and=20 Michigan. This warning was = issued=20 approximately 6-6:30pm due = to the=20 numerous tornadoes on the ground and the severity of the incoming damage = reports. Never before, and not since Palm Sunday 1965, had this = extraordinary=20 measure ever been taken, to ensure the safety of the population against = such=20 life threatening weather conditions. The=20 Fort Wayne line went through = the=20 southern third of these counties.

Also, = trains 28 (the=20 eastbound Broadway Limited) and train 50 (the eastbound Admiral) did not = appear=20 that evening at Warsaw. In the Transfer Record section of the CT = 355-A for 10:00pm, it is written in the Overdue Trains = section: =93No.=20 28 - 50 Back=94 Train 28 typically was 41 minutes behind the 48, = "The=20 General," which passed = Warsaw at=20 5:06pm, just before the = weather turned=20 bad. It is possible that Train 28 (The Broadway Limited) may have = been=20 held, like train 53, at Gary = or=20 Valparaiso, west of the = storms.=20 Train 50, the Admiral, probably never left=20 Chicago. Freight trains = that=20 did not show at Warsaw = included=20 CS-8.

1:30AM April 12: A wreck train, pulled by GP-35 = 2290,=20 passed Warsaw tower and = heads west.=20 It shows up again eastbound at=20 Warsaw at 1:48PM, over twelve hours later. It is not = known the=20 reasons for the wreck train. According to press reports, there were no = known=20 trains that were caught by the storms. The last westbound freight = before=20 the storms was WC-9 that passed=20 Warsaw at 2:29pm. It is likely that the the wreck = train was=20 heading to Hamlet and maybe to the vicinity of Hanna and Wanatah to = clear downed=20 trees, poles and debris from the tracks where the tornadoes crossed = over=20 the main line. Perhaps the wreck train was also used to upright freight = cars on=20 sidings that were tipped over by the straight line winds.

Train = 28, the=20 eastbound Broadway Limited, did eventually run and arrived in=20 Warsaw at 8:02 am on April 12, almost 12 hours late. Train = 50, the=20 Admiral, did not run until is regularly scheduled time the next evening. = Also on=20 the evening of the April 12, there were two sections of CS-8 which may = have been=20 an attempt to make up for the absence of the train on the night of the = April 11.=20 Trains GRE-2 and FW-8 did run on the morning of the April 12 but = approximately=20 2-3 hours behind their regularly scheduled times. By the afternoon of = April 12,=20 train operations at KS tower in Warsaw appear to go back to = normal.

Attached is a web=20 site photo showing one of these Palm Sunday tornadoes.

http://www.mammatu= s.com/PSO/HUFFMAN_TOR_4.GIF

It is = a famous=20 picture that many of you have probably seen before. I present it because = of an=20 unusual railroad reference. The location just northwest of=20 Goshen,=20 Indiana. The photographer is looking = the=20 northwest towards Dunlap and=20 Elkhart. The roadway in the=20 foreground is US 33 and the railroad is the New=20 York Central main line. = The twin=20 vortex tornado is traveling northeast (left to right) at a speed of 60 = miles per=20 hour. It is a sobering thought that as this photo was being taken, the=20 F-4 tornado was ripping through a trailer park, killing 10 = including an=20 entire family of 6. According to newspaper reports, many people in this = area=20 were caught off guard by the fast moving storm; many initially thought = that the=20 sound that they heard was a train on the NYC.

For = more information=20 on the Palm Sunday tornado outbreak, click on the following website. It = has=20 allot of original articles and a TON of photographs of the storms. =

http://www.mammatus.com/= outbreak65.html

Ted=20 Andrews

Carmel,=20 Indiana

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C42016.16204740-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Warsaw, Indiana; Palm Sunday 1965 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:41:10 -0500 April 11, 1965 Many of you on this list may not know the significance of this date. But = in the northern midwest, it is very significant. Today is the 39th = anniversary of the super-outbreak of tornadoes in which nearly 50 = tornadoes struck the Great Lakes region on April 11-12, causing 271 = deaths and more than 3,400 injuries. Indiana received the brunt of this = outbreak; 11 tornadoes struck 20 counties in central and northern = Indiana, killing 137 people. More than 1,700 people were injured and = property damage exceeded $30 million. It was, and still is Indiana's = worst tornado disaster. This outbreak also directly effected operations on the Pennsylvania = Railroad. The following is a chronology of events that unfolded at KS = tower in Warsaw, Indiana on the Fort Wayne line. 4:00PM: The weather entry on the CT 355-A at 4pm was cloudy and 72 = degrees, which was very warm for that time of year. In the days leading = to April 11, it was very unseasonably warm with highs averaging in the = mid-60's.=20 The storm front was rapidly approaching from the west and went through = the northern Indiana area from 5-7 pm, traveling north-northeast at 60 = miles per hour.=20 =20 5:30PM: The first reports of tornados in northern Indiana were made. The = first tornado sightings were at Hamlet and Wanatah, both located along = the Ft. Wayne line. Both of these tornadoes touched down south of the = Pennsy and eventually crossed over the mainline. The Wanatah twister = crossed the PRR line half way between Wanatah and Hanna while the Hamlet = tornado crossed the Ft. Wayne line just east of Hamlet and within 1/4 = mile of Hamlet tower.=20 The following picture is the tornado that went though Wanatah and = crossed over the Fort Wayne Line between Wanatah and Hanna: = http://www.mammatus.com/PSO/WANATAH_TOR_1.GIF Within the next hour (5:30-6:30pm), 5 tornadoes would touch down in = northern Indiana especially in the vicinity of Elkhart and Goshen. It = was determined that all of these tornadoes reached the strength of at = least F-4 (on the Fugita scale) during their violent lives. On the Fort = Wayne line, the most intense thunderstorm and tornadic activity was = occurring west of Warsaw between Plymouth and Wanatah. =20 =20 6:50PM: Operations at KS tower in Warsaw appear normal until 6:50pm when = train 53, the westbound Fort Pitt, arrives in Warsaw. This all-coach = train was due at Warsaw at 7:00pm and would typically make a short = station stop. However, the Fort Pitt was then held at Warsaw until = 9:46pm, departing almost 3 hours later.=20 =20 6:58PM: An entry at the bottom of the CT-355-A train sheet reads: "Red = West at Vandale at 6:58pm." Vandale is in Columbia City, east of Warsaw. = This stop condition for westbound traffic may be due to power outages = and downed communication lines west of Warsaw. However, it may have = been a dispatcher order influenced directly by the U.S. Weather Bureau. = For the first time ever in the history of U.S. Weather Bureau, its South = Bend office issued a "Blanket Tornado Warning" for all nine of its = counties under its warning jurisdiction in Indiana and Michigan. This = warning was issued approximately 6-6:30pm due to the numerous tornadoes = on the ground and the severity of the incoming damage reports. Never = before, and not since Palm Sunday 1965, had this extraordinary measure = ever been taken, to ensure the safety of the population against such = life threatening weather conditions. The Fort Wayne line went through = the southern third of these counties.=20 =20 Also, trains 28 (the eastbound Broadway Limited) and train 50 (the = eastbound Admiral) did not appear that evening at Warsaw. In the = Transfer Record section of the CT 355-A for 10:00pm, it is written in = the Overdue Trains section: "No. 28 - 50 Back" Train 28 typically was 41 = minutes behind the 48, "The General," which passed Warsaw at 5:06pm, = just before the weather turned bad. It is possible that Train 28 (The = Broadway Limited) may have been held, like train 53, at Gary or = Valparaiso, west of the storms. Train 50, the Admiral, probably never = left Chicago. Freight trains that did not show at Warsaw included CS-8.=20 =20 1:30AM April 12: A wreck train, pulled by GP-35 2290, passed Warsaw = tower and heads west. It shows up again eastbound at Warsaw at 1:48PM, = over twelve hours later. It is not known the reasons for the wreck = train. According to press reports, there were no known trains that were = caught by the storms. The last westbound freight before the storms was = WC-9 that passed Warsaw at 2:29pm. It is likely that the the wreck train = was heading to Hamlet and maybe to the vicinity of Hanna and Wanatah to = clear downed trees, poles and debris from the tracks where the tornadoes = crossed over the main line. Perhaps the wreck train was also used to = upright freight cars on sidings that were tipped over by the straight = line winds. =20 Train 28, the eastbound Broadway Limited, did eventually run and arrived = in Warsaw at 8:02 am on April 12, almost 12 hours late. Train 50, the = Admiral, did not run until is regularly scheduled time the next evening. = Also on the evening of the April 12, there were two sections of CS-8 = which may have been an attempt to make up for the absence of the train = on the night of the April 11. Trains GRE-2 and FW-8 did run on the = morning of the April 12 but approximately 2-3 hours behind their = regularly scheduled times. By the afternoon of April 12, train = operations at KS tower in Warsaw appear to go back to normal. =20 Attached is a web site photo showing one of these Palm Sunday tornadoes. = http://www.mammatus.com/PSO/HUFFMAN_TOR_4.GIF It is a famous picture that many of you have probably seen before. I = present it because of an unusual railroad reference. The location just = northwest of Goshen, Indiana. The photographer is looking the northwest = towards Dunlap and Elkhart. The roadway in the foreground is US 33 and = the railroad is the New York Central main line. The twin vortex tornado = is traveling northeast (left to right) at a speed of 60 miles per hour. = It is a sobering thought that as this photo was being taken, the F-4 = tornado was ripping through a trailer park, killing 10 including an = entire family of 6. According to newspaper reports, many people in this = area were caught off guard by the fast moving storm; many initially = thought that the sound that they heard was a train on the NYC.=20 For more information on the Palm Sunday tornado outbreak, click on the = following website. It has allot of original articles and a TON of = photographs of the storms.=20 http://www.mammatus.com/outbreak65.html Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C42016.16204740 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

April = 11,=20 1965

This=20 outbreak also directly effected operations on the Pennsylvania = Railroad.=20 The following is a chronology of events that unfolded at KS = tower in=20 Warsaw, Indiana on the Fort Wayne line.

The = storm front was=20 rapidly approaching from the west and went through the northern=20 Indiana area from = 5-7 pm, traveling north-northeast at 60 miles = per=20 hour.

The = following=20 picture is the tornado that went though Wanatah and crossed over = the Fort=20 Wayne Line between Wanatah and Hanna: http://www.mammatu= s.com/PSO/WANATAH_TOR_1.GIF

Attached is a web=20 site photo showing one of these Palm Sunday tornadoes.

http://www.mammatu= s.com/PSO/HUFFMAN_TOR_4.GIF

For = more information=20 on the Palm Sunday tornado outbreak, click on the following website. It = has=20 allot of original articles and a TON of photographs of the storms. =

http://www.mammatus.com/= outbreak65.html

Ted=20 Andrews

Carmel,=20 Indiana

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C42016.16204740-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:44:23 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg Steel Co. From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Harrisburg Steel Co., located just (railroad) west of the Harrisburg passenger station, I believe played a significant role during WW II. They had four sidings of their own listed in the 1943 CT1000E, although they had much of their own track internally, and no doubt their own switchers. At some later date -- and I have no clue how much later -- they and other companies merged into HARSCO. I believe this was an acronym for HARrisburg Steel COrporation. Up until at least 15 years ago it included BMY, a company in York that manufactures military vehicles (Abrams, I think, and maybe the Bradley). I think this was spun off since. Anyway, what I am getting at is, does anyone know what the Harrisburg plant's principal product was during the mid-1950's? The probably took coal and coke in, had empty hoppers coming out, but what products were coming out in that time frame? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:19:16 -0400 Subject: [PRR] More Switching for Harrisburg From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I was "thinking outside the box" again last night -- while driving home from the in-laws in Philly -- and came up with some more switching options for Harrisburg. You already know about the area along the aisle west of the station, which will include: * North Street Delivery (team tracks w/gantry) * Swift & Company #1 * United Ice & Coal #1 * Simon Michlovitz (scrap dealer) I realized I can use the area on the opposite side of the mains, underneath the Middle Division above. The clearance is only 6", but visibility is good. No, there will not be room to reach in and manually uncouple. But, with switch magnets, the following sidings were actually there and complete strings of cars could be delivered and another string pulled out... * Pa. Power & Light No. 1 * Pa. Power & Light No. 2 * Hbg. Steel Corp. No. 1 * Hbg. Steel Corp. No. 2 The power plant obviously gets full hoppers in and empties out. The steel plant will also get full hoppers in and empties out. I am also trying to determine the product they produced circa 1954 for additional traffic. And I won't attempt to describe how this connects... but it is an easy connection and a good use of space. I can extend the industry track on the (railroad) north side of the mains -- Farm Show Building side -- to Lucknow, where I can include: * Cattle Car Disinfecting Siding * M. W. Storehouse * Lucknow Scrap Dock * U.S. Government Ground Storage Nos. 1, 2, 3 & 4 The stock car cleaning track will allow for some additional shuffling of cars related to the Swift packing plant. The M.W. Storehouse will be a great spot for several MoW cars and perhaps a wreck train. The Lucknow scrap dock could be pretty active. The US tracks will see the parking of my troop cars that are really to late for the era. Plus some other storage of who knows what. Wow, a total of 11 new industry tracks! And these will likely all be in by late summer or so, so we can actually start playing!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:19:16 -0400 Subject: [PRR] More Switching for Harrisburg From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I was "thinking outside the box" again last night -- while driving home from the in-laws in Philly -- and came up with some more switching options for Harrisburg. You already know about the area along the aisle west of the station, which will include: * North Street Delivery (team tracks w/gantry) * Swift & Company #1 * United Ice & Coal #1 * Simon Michlovitz (scrap dealer) I realized I can use the area on the opposite side of the mains, underneath the Middle Division above. The clearance is only 6", but visibility is good. No, there will not be room to reach in and manually uncouple. But, with switch magnets, the following sidings were actually there and complete strings of cars could be delivered and another string pulled out... * Pa. Power & Light No. 1 * Pa. Power & Light No. 2 * Hbg. Steel Corp. No. 1 * Hbg. Steel Corp. No. 2 The power plant obviously gets full hoppers in and empties out. The steel plant will also get full hoppers in and empties out. I am also trying to determine the product they produced circa 1954 for additional traffic. And I won't attempt to describe how this connects... but it is an easy connection and a good use of space. I can extend the industry track on the (railroad) north side of the mains -- Farm Show Building side -- to Lucknow, where I can include: * Cattle Car Disinfecting Siding * M. W. Storehouse * Lucknow Scrap Dock * U.S. Government Ground Storage Nos. 1, 2, 3 & 4 The stock car cleaning track will allow for some additional shuffling of cars related to the Swift packing plant. The M.W. Storehouse will be a great spot for several MoW cars and perhaps a wreck train. The Lucknow scrap dock could be pretty active. The US tracks will see the parking of my troop cars that are really to late for the era. Plus some other storage of who knows what. Wow, a total of 11 new industry tracks! And these will likely all be in by late summer or so, so we can actually start playing!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:49:06 -0400 From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] More Switching for Harrisburg Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry, When looking at the steel industry don't forget to include delivery of limestone, molybdenium (sp?), zinc (for galvanizing), chrome, scrap steel and otehr additives. By products shipped out anhydrous ammonia, slag, for steel products you need to check what type of storage bldgs they had. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:27:48 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR 1937 Calendar Folks, Just ran across this item up for auction. Grif Teller's "Ready to Go" http://antiques-internet.com/colorado/railroadmemories/dynapage/IP1585.htm Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1081780068 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

Folks,

Just ran across this item up for auction. Grif=20= Teller's "Ready to Go"

http://antiques-internet.com/colorado/railroadmemories= /dynapage/IP1585.htm

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ

-------------------------------1081780068-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:48:40 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Tidbits on Harrisburg Steel From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <7CA0AB12-8C90-11D8-8431-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I'm picking up some tidbits I'll share... 1853 The Harrisburg Car Manufacturing Company, a forerunner to the =20 Harrisburg Steel Corporation, is founded in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania 1890's A successor company, the Harrisburg Pipe and Pipe Bending=20 Company, perfects pipe bending processes that help open the way to=20 large-scale refrigeration and cooling 1900's - 1950's Harrisburg Steel Corporation establishes an=20 international reputation for its high-pressure gas cylinders and other=20= products 1956 Harrisburg Steel becomes Harsco Corporation, marking its entry=20 into diversified international markets and products Harsco's predecessor companies built some of the country's first oil=20 tank cars for the American railroads. Its high-strength manganese steel=20= dredging buckets helped dig the Panama Canal, while its manganese steel=20= trackwork was crucial to the increasingly heavy loads of America's=20 railroads. Its skill at pipe bending and coil making helped open the=20 way to modern refrigeration and cooling. Company engineers were also=20 involved in the development of seamless steel airplane propellers, and=20= one plant even made custom gears for Charles Lindbergh's "Spirit of St.=20= Louis." With the dawn of the 20th century, the company established itself as=20= an internationally-recognized leader in the production of high-pressure=20= gas cylinders, producing America=92s first seamless gas cylinders.=A0=20 Later, the company would begin producing a range of specialty steel=20 products, leading the company to change its name to the Harrisburg=20 Steel Corporation in 1935. (=20 http://www.harsco.com/about1/history/history_of_harsco.html ). Though the article is no longer posted (=20 www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/040405/biztech/5jobs.htm ), the Google=20 synopsis reads "For more than a hundred years it was the site of a=20 Harrisburg Steel factory churning out railroad cars, rails, pipe, and=20 other steel products. " Here's a history of when they made railroad cars under the name=20 Harrisburg Car Company...=20 http://www.ironhorse129.com/rollingstock/builders/harrisburg.htm . One=20= of their customers was the PRR in the 1870's. During WWII they made 500 lb. bombs (=20 http://www.heritageresearch.com/War%20Facilities6.html ). ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com= ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Rea" Subject: [PRR] Coming to Ohio? Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:50:02 -0400 Here are few random thoughts from a PRR fan in Columbus. If you just want to get to Cincy you are probably best to use I-80 then = I-71 or I-68, I-79,I-70 and I 71. Avoid the Pa Tpk if you can. There are not even any rails left in Wheeling. =20 Zanesville can be quite interesting. During the day Ohio Central = operates several 50 car unit coal trains from mines near New Lexington = and Glouster to the power plant in Conesville. They come north into = Zanesville over the newly restored former PRR Zanesville branch, then on = north on the old W&LE line to Trinway and on into Conesville on the = former PRR-Panhandle line. The time of day varies but usually about = noon. Some times CSX shows up with its daily local complete with a = caboose and it is a real hot spot, if only briefly. If you stay on I-70 to Columbus swing north an come into Columbus on = I-670. It is over the old big PRR yards and shops. Nothing left but a = single track and ghosts. If you follow the signs to the airport take = 5th avenue, its the airport southern boundary and is a few feet north of = the Panhandle/B&O joint line, now Ohio Central/CSX. At the SE corner of = the airport you can see the old TAT building, sight of the famous = Rail/Air Xfer. Xenia; also has no track. But the area around the old junction of the = Panhandle lines to Cincy and St. Louis is interesting. On in town is a = nice museum. A road map and/or a SPV Atlas will make all this a bit clearer. Fred Rea ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C4209D.6F6C4F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Here are few random thoughts from a PRR fan in=20 Columbus.

If you just want to get to Cincy you are probably = best to use=20 I-80 then I-71 or I-68, I-79,I-70 and I 71. Avoid the Pa Tpk if = you=20 can.

There are not even any rails left in Wheeling. =

Zanesville can be quite interesting. During = the day Ohio=20 Central operates several 50 car unit coal trains from mines near New = Lexington=20 and Glouster to the power plant in Conesville. They come north = into=20 Zanesville over the newly restored former PRR Zanesville branch, then on = north=20 on the old W&LE line to Trinway and on into Conesville on the former = PRR-Panhandle line. The time of day varies but usually about = noon. =20 Some times CSX shows up with its daily local complete with a caboose and = it is a=20 real hot spot, if only briefly.

If you stay on I-70 to Columbus swing north an come = into=20 Columbus on I-670. It is over the old big PRR yards and = shops. =20 Nothing left but a single track and ghosts. If you follow the = signs to the=20 airport take 5th avenue, its the airport southern boundary and is a few = feet=20 north of the Panhandle/B&O joint line, now Ohio Central/CSX. = At the SE=20 corner of the airport you can see the old TAT building, sight of the = famous=20 Rail/Air Xfer.

Xenia; also has no track. But the area around = the old=20 junction of the Panhandle lines to Cincy and St. Louis is = interesting. On=20 in town is a nice museum.

A road map and/or a SPV Atlas will make all this a = bit=20 clearer.

Fred Rea

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C4209D.6F6C4F60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Rea" Subject: [PRR] Coming to Ohio? Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:50:02 -0400 Here are few random thoughts from a PRR fan in Columbus. If you just want to get to Cincy you are probably best to use I-80 then = I-71 or I-68, I-79,I-70 and I 71. Avoid the Pa Tpk if you can. There are not even any rails left in Wheeling. =20 Zanesville can be quite interesting. During the day Ohio Central = operates several 50 car unit coal trains from mines near New Lexington = and Glouster to the power plant in Conesville. They come north into = Zanesville over the newly restored former PRR Zanesville branch, then on = north on the old W&LE line to Trinway and on into Conesville on the = former PRR-Panhandle line. The time of day varies but usually about = noon. Some times CSX shows up with its daily local complete with a = caboose and it is a real hot spot, if only briefly. If you stay on I-70 to Columbus swing north an come into Columbus on = I-670. It is over the old big PRR yards and shops. Nothing left but a = single track and ghosts. If you follow the signs to the airport take = 5th avenue, its the airport southern boundary and is a few feet north of = the Panhandle/B&O joint line, now Ohio Central/CSX. At the SE corner of = the airport you can see the old TAT building, sight of the famous = Rail/Air Xfer. Xenia; also has no track. But the area around the old junction of the = Panhandle lines to Cincy and St. Louis is interesting. On in town is a = nice museum. A road map and/or a SPV Atlas will make all this a bit clearer. Fred Rea ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C4209D.6F6C4F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Here are few random thoughts from a PRR fan in=20 Columbus.

If you just want to get to Cincy you are probably = best to use=20 I-80 then I-71 or I-68, I-79,I-70 and I 71. Avoid the Pa Tpk if = you=20 can.

There are not even any rails left in Wheeling. =

Xenia; also has no track. But the area around = the old=20 junction of the Panhandle lines to Cincy and St. Louis is = interesting. On=20 in town is a nice museum.

A road map and/or a SPV Atlas will make all this a = bit=20 clearer.

Fred Rea

-----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Fred=20 Rea
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 2:50 PM
To: = PRR-FAX;=20 PRR-Talk
Subject: [PRR] Coming to Ohio?

. . . Avoid the = Pa Tpk if=20 you can.

. . .

Fred Rea

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

After all, it was built by the NYC=20 ;-)

------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C420A4.29FA4750-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Dan Cupper Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:05:05 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Wheeling Fred Rea wrote: > Here are few random thoughts from a PRR fan in Columbus. > > There are not even any rails left in Wheeling. > An addendum: B&O was the kingpin of railroads in Wheeling, but except for the preserved passenger station with no rails, and a rail-trail (with a curved tunnel) on the onetime Wheeling-Pittsburgh line, very little is left of the B&O. Unless it's been abandoned in the last year or so, a small amount of trackage does still exist in Wheeling. It's an ex-PRR line, including an active ex-PRR tunnel, serving a small industrial park that lies due east of the city center. This trackage is the truncated south end of the Wheeling Terminal Railway, a PRR line that once crossed the Ohio on a 2,100-foot-long combination deck and through truss steel bridge from Martin's Ferry. W&LE used this under trackage rights, so many locals there tend to think of it as a W&LE line, but its ownership was PRR. Today the line is connected, only on the south end, to CSX via South Wheeling. By starting at South Wheeling and using the street grid and following the grade crossings north, it's fairly easy to find the tunnel. Two others between the active track and the now-removed Ohio River bridge are abandoned. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:56:55 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Layout Tours on April 28-29th? From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <8CC59F39-8CBB-11D8-8431-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Wanted: Layouts to see on the way to Cincy. Route: PA Turnpike west to I-70 west on Wednesday, April 28th Overnighting somewhere west of Pittsburgh I-70 west to I-71 South at Columbus to Cincinnati on Thursday, April 29th Who: Your listmeister and fellow riders If you're on our route, and retired or already off for the day, and interested in entertaining a few on the way to Cincy, please respond off-list. Thanks! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:56:55 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Layout Tours on April 28-29th? From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <8CC59F39-8CBB-11D8-8431-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Wanted: Layouts to see on the way to Cincy. Route: PA Turnpike west to I-70 west on Wednesday, April 28th Overnighting somewhere west of Pittsburgh I-70 west to I-71 South at Columbus to Cincinnati on Thursday, April 29th Who: Your listmeister and fellow riders If you're on our route, and retired or already off for the day, and interested in entertaining a few on the way to Cincy, please respond off-list. Thanks! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:05:05 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: [PRR] Wheeling Fred Rea wrote: > Here are few random thoughts from a PRR fan in Columbus. > > There are not even any rails left in Wheeling. > An addendum: B&O was the kingpin of railroads in Wheeling, but except for the preserved passenger station with no rails, and a rail-trail (with a curved tunnel) on the onetime Wheeling-Pittsburgh line, very little is left of the B&O. Unless it's been abandoned in the last year or so, a small amount of trackage does still exist in Wheeling. It's an ex-PRR line, including an active ex-PRR tunnel, serving a small industrial park that lies due east of the city center. This trackage is the truncated south end of the Wheeling Terminal Railway, a PRR line that once crossed the Ohio on a 2,100-foot-long combination deck and through truss steel bridge from Martin's Ferry. W&LE used this under trackage rights, so many locals there tend to think of it as a W&LE line, but its ownership was PRR. Today the line is connected, only on the south end, to CSX via South Wheeling. By starting at South Wheeling and using the street grid and following the grade crossings north, it's fairly easy to find the tunnel. Two others between the active track and the now-removed Ohio River bridge are abandoned. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. --------------080206040202040909080201 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Fred Rea wrote:

Here are few random thoughts from a PRR fan in Columbus.

There are not even any rails left in Wheeling.

An addendum: B&O was the kingpin of railroads in Wheeling, but except for the preserved passenger station with no rails, and a rail-trail (with a curved tunnel) on the onetime Wheeling-Pittsburgh line, very little is left of the B&O. Unless it's been abandoned in the last year or so, a small amount of trackage does still exist in Wheeling. It's an ex-PRR line, including an active ex-PRR tunnel, serving a small industrial park that lies due east of the city center. This trackage is the truncated south end of the Wheeling Terminal Railway, a PRR line that once crossed the Ohio on a 2,100-foot-long combination deck and through truss steel bridge from Martin's Ferry. W&LE used this under trackage rights, so many locals there tend to think of it as a W&LE line, but its ownership was PRR. Today the line is connected, only on the south end, to CSX via South Wheeling. By starting at South Wheeling and using the street grid and following the grade crossings north, it's fairly easy to find the tunnel. Two others between the active track and the now-removed Ohio River bridge are abandoned.

Dan Cupper
Harrisburg, Pa.
--------------080206040202040909080201-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Rea" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:50:02 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Coming to Ohio? Here are few random thoughts from a PRR fan in Columbus. If you just want to get to Cincy you are probably best to use I-80 then I-71 or I-68, I-79,I-70 and I 71. Avoid the Pa Tpk if you can. There are not even any rails left in Wheeling. Zanesville can be quite interesting. During the day Ohio Central operates several 50 car unit coal trains from mines near New Lexington and Glouster to the power plant in Conesville. They come north into Zanesville over the newly restored former PRR Zanesville branch, then on north on the old W&LE line to Trinway and on into Conesville on the former PRR-Panhandle line. The time of day varies but usually about noon. Some times CSX shows up with its daily local complete with a caboose and it is a real hot spot, if only briefly. If you stay on I-70 to Columbus swing north an come into Columbus on I-670. It is over the old big PRR yards and shops. Nothing left but a single track and ghosts. If you follow the signs to the airport take 5th avenue, its the airport southern boundary and is a few feet north of the Panhandle/B&O joint line, now Ohio Central/CSX. At the SE corner of the airport you can see the old TAT building, sight of the famous Rail/Air Xfer. Xenia; also has no track. But the area around the old junction of the Panhandle lines to Cincy and St. Louis is interesting. On in town is a nice museum. A road map and/or a SPV Atlas will make all this a bit clearer. Fred Rea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Rea" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:52:50 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Eastern Ohio Shortline & Regional Message Board Here is a great web site for what's happening in Eastern Ohio. Just post an inquiry or two and I am sure you will get a response from those more informed than me. Fred Rea http://members.boardhost.com/WLETS/index.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg Steel Co. / Hickok Mfg. Co. Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:14:46 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Some things just fall into place... Harrisburg Steel Co. occupied two significant "blocks" of property between the PRR r-o-w and Cameron Street in Harrisburg. The first -- and the one I was really asking about earlier today -- was between State Street and Herr Street. The second from Herr Street to Maclay Street. I still have unanswered questions about the first, but I seem to have found a "holy grail" for the second. More in a moment. For the second block, the majority was made up by Harrisburg Steel Co. and, according to the CT1000E of 1945, "Defense Plant Corp." The CT1000 also showed Hickok Mfg. Co., and I was trying to place it amongst everything else. Well, I found out about all I can about this area. I came into receipt of a packet of materials from July through October 1949. It thoroughly documents that the Defense Plant Corp. was run by the U.S Government and built this plant in 1943 to build 500 pound bombs during WWII. But the actual operation of the plant was sub'ed out to Harrisburg Steel Co. When the war was over, the plant shut down. Somewhere along the line it came under the property of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Enter the PRR. Or, more importantly, their subsidiary, Manor Real Estate & Trust. The property was put up for auction and the MRE, on behalf of the PRR, submitted a bid for the property in the amount of $515,000. The bid was secured by check #36049 in the amount of $128,750. However, on September 30th the Commonwealth backed out of the auction and chose not to sell. The PRR had wanted to develop the property since it had rail connections. The packet includes a complete copy of the deed for the property from the Land Title Bank and Trust Company, which includes a very complete description of the borders of the property. A valuation style map is included, and noteworthy is that a portion is owned by Harrisburg Steel Co. and marked "(formerly Hickock Mfg. Co.)". This tells me that Harrisburg Steel acquired Hickok after the 1945 CT1000 was prepared and before the 1949 map. A site map details the exact locations and sizes of each main building and all outbuildings, as well as on-site railroad trackage. A table shows exact specifications and uses for each building. Several photos, including some inside the plant, are included. If anyone else has the same sickness I have for details on this area, let me know. I can always scan and post some of the docs. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <60927F96-8CE9-11D8-AD34-000A9581CCA6@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Herr Street in Harrisburg Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:24:58 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Looking at a valuation map of Harrisburg. Just discovered Herr Street is a bridge and not an underpass! Anyone know what era the underpass was put in? As always, 1954 is the critical year for me...what was there, then? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 03:10:48 GMT Subject: [PRR] Shutting Down Railroad From: Dominic Mazoch Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 01:04:03 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Herr Street in Harrisburg Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Greetings to Jerry and the List: The Herr Street underpass/bridge was built by the contracting firm of Drake & Stratton immediately after it finished work on its half of the Rockville Bridge (the easterly 24 arches). So it has been there since about 1903-04, making it pretty safe for that 1954 era. In a similar vein, the contractor who built the west half of the Rockville Bridge, Harry S. Kerbaugh & Co., also built the Market Street Bridge in Harrisburg, also in 1902-1904. This was following the spring flood of 1902 that wiped out the old Camelback wooden covered bridge at Market Street. The steel Kerbaugh replacement, funded by the Harrisburg Bridge Co., a private toll bridge company, was rebuilt about 1928 with a stone-arch appearance on its easterly portion, but the original steel girders from that portion were barged around the end of City Island and laid adjacent to those on the west side (atop lengthened piers) to double the roadway width. So if you're driving into Harrisburg today from Lemoyne on the Market Street Bridge, you're riding on a Kerbaugh-built structure. Kerbaugh also built much of the Low Grade, as well as many other bridges and right-of-way widening projects on the PRR. Kerbaugh did good work and earned the right to win PRR contracts, but it should also come as no surprise that he was a son-in-law of William Henry Brown, PRR's chief engineer at that time. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. ---------------------------------- Jerry @ Pennsy wrote: > Looking at a valuation map of Harrisburg. Just discovered Herr Street > is a bridge and not an underpass! > > Anyone know what era the underpass was put in? As always, 1954 is the > critical year for me...what was there, then? > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:52:44 -0700 From: Peter Weiglin Subject: [PRR] Horseshoe Hudson Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Andy Miller wrote: I remember visiting the Scioto Valley MRC in Columbus about 8 years ago. They have a model of the Horseshoe Curve with a NYC Hudson in the park!! -sacrilege! = = = Well, if you can't have a K4s or a PRR J1, then a Hudson is definitely preferable to a T1. (Of course, it might have been that Rosebud Kitmaster Hudsons were available for very little...) Peter Weiglin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:52:44 -0700 From: Peter Weiglin Subject: [PRR] Horseshoe Hudson Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Andy Miller wrote: I remember visiting the Scioto Valley MRC in Columbus about 8 years ago. They have a model of the Horseshoe Curve with a NYC Hudson in the park!! -sacrilege! = = = Well, if you can't have a K4s or a PRR J1, then a Hudson is definitely preferable to a T1. (Of course, it might have been that Rosebud Kitmaster Hudsons were available for very little...) Peter Weiglin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] Herr Street in Harrisburg Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 06:27:35 -0400 To: Dan Cupper X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Apr 13, 2004, at 1:04 AM, Dan Cupper wrote: > The Herr Street underpass/bridge was built by the contracting firm of > Drake & Stratton immediately after it finished work on its half of the > Rockville Bridge (the easterly 24 arches). So it has been there since > about 1903-04, making it pretty safe for that 1954 era. Thanks, Dan! It's unreal that valuation maps are constantly updated, but features such as a bridge overpass vs. an underpass are not... and 50 plus years later they remain incorrect! It would be one thing if they were "off railroad", but an underpass is pretty significant! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 14:12:11 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR FM Pass. Trainmasters? SPF, Did the Pennsy ever have the Trainmasters assigned to passenger service? Did they ever test a Trainmaster in pass. service? Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1081879931 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

SPF,

Did the Pennsy ever have the Trainmasters assigned to pass= enger service? Did they ever test a Trainmaster in pass. service?

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ

-------------------------------1081879931-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: RE: [PRR] Herr Street in Harrisburg Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 14:18:06 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <2E619A41-8D35-11D8-A526-000A9581CCA6@pennsyrr.com> X-SLUIDL: 0754C688-C8764206-9C93CC08-B75B3B0D Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: It's been years since I've been though Herr Street, but I seem to recall that one of the concrete retaining walls or beams has a date stamp. I did some network work in the W.O. Hickok bldg about 10 years ago. Great hardwood floors and such. They had and still may have a paymaster window and other neat office touches from way back when. The building is mostly concrete piers and beams with very thick floors. I did not get out back to check the track arrangement, but it did have something along the west side, and then there was and may still be the trestle work along the ROW. I wanted to take some pictures, just never got around to it. Cos Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone "If we can not have what we like, we must learn to like what we have!" John Paul Jones -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Jerry @ Pennsy Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 6:28 AM To: Dan Cupper Cc: PRR-talk Subject: Re: [PRR] Herr Street in Harrisburg On Apr 13, 2004, at 1:04 AM, Dan Cupper wrote: > The Herr Street underpass/bridge was built by the contracting firm of > Drake & Stratton immediately after it finished work on its half of the > Rockville Bridge (the easterly 24 arches). So it has been there since > about 1903-04, making it pretty safe for that 1954 era. Thanks, Dan! It's unreal that valuation maps are constantly updated, but features such as a bridge overpass vs. an underpass are not... and 50 plus years later they remain incorrect! It would be one thing if they were "off railroad", but an underpass is pretty significant! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 14:25:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Herr Street in Harrisburg From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Tuesday, April 13, 2004, at 02:18 PM, Wayne S. Betty wrote: > It's been years since I've been though Herr Street, but I seem to > recall > that one of the concrete retaining walls or beams has a date stamp. > > I did some network work in the W.O. Hickok bldg about 10 years ago. > Great > hardwood floors and such. They had and still may have a paymaster > window > and other neat office touches from way back when. The building is > mostly > concrete piers and beams with very thick floors. I did not get out > back to > check the track arrangement, but it did have something along the west > side, > and then there was and may still be the trestle work along the ROW. I > wanted to take some pictures, just never got around to it. If the weather holds good, I plan to visit and photograph as much of the areas as I can this Saturday. From the State Street bridge north to Herr Street... and perhaps a little further. I don't think (legal) access is that great further west. Last night I made the post about Harrisburg Steel acquiring the Hickok property. As Wayne alludes, they continued in business at one or more locations and, for all I know, are still in business. But the one property I was citing went to Harrisburg Steel before 1954. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:23:40 -0400 From: Jeff Warner Subject: [PRR] AS16a questions Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hello all: I have seen several sources, including Pennsy Power II and Pennsy Power III refer to these as RSD-4's. Other sources (such as Keystone Crossings refers to them as RSD-5's... Anybody know which one they were or what the differences were? Also, KC states that in 1961, MU capability was added making them class AS16am. Before 1961, could they not even MU with each other? Or, could they only not MU to other locos? Finally, after 1961, could they MU with class AS16m (RS-3)? Thanks, Jeff Warner ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR FM Pass. Trainmasters? Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:47:33 -0400 No on both counts. I don't recall even seeing any accounts of the FM demo touring the PRR as it did on the New Haven who bought them. By 1956 PRR was pretty well out of the passenger diesel buying mood. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of RDG2124@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 2:12 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] PRR FM Pass. Trainmasters? SPF, Did the Pennsy ever have the Trainmasters assigned to passenger service? Did they ever test a Trainmaster in pass. service? Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01C4216E.AD2886D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message

No on both counts. I don't = recall even=20 seeing any accounts of the FM demo touring the PRR as it did on the New = Haven=20 who bought them. By 1956 PRR was pretty well out of the = passenger=20 diesel buying mood.

-----Original Message-----
From: = PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of = RDG2124@aol.com
Sent:=20 Tuesday, April 13, 2004 2:12 PM
To:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] PRR FM Pass.=20 Trainmasters?

SPF,

Did the Pennsy ever have the Trainmasters assigned = to=20 passenger service? Did they ever test a Trainmaster in pass.=20 service?

Evan Leisey
RCT&HS = 346
PRRT&HS=20 (Phila.) 2036
CNJ

------=_NextPart_000_0061_01C4216E.AD2886D0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:50:50 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR FM Pass. Trainmasters? From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Tuesday, April 13, 2004, at 03:47 PM, Bill Volkmer wrote: > No on both counts.=A0 I don't recall even seeing any accounts of the = FM=20 > demo touring the PRR as it did on the New Haven who=A0 bought them.=A0 = By=20 > 1956 PRR was pretty well out of the passenger diesel buying mood. > =A0 > =A0=A0 Did the Pennsy ever have the Trainmasters assigned to passenger=20= > service?=A0 Did they ever test a Trainmaster in pass. service? I don't recall what service it was in (passenger vs. freight), but=20 there are photos of the Trainmaster demo units on the Pennsy in=20 Pittsburgh (1954, I think) near the passenger station. I'm not sure of the top of my head what book the pics were in, but it=20 may have been "Pennsy Diesels 1924-1968" by Douglas and Weiglin. If not=20= there, perhaps it was in "Altoona Action". If it's important, I can dig, but the answer is still the same... no=20 TM's purchased for passenger service. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:56:52 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR FM Pass. Trainmasters? X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 46 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In a message dated 4/13/04 1:31:15 PM, RDG2124@aol.com writes: << Did the Pennsy ever have the Trainmasters assigned to passenger service? Did they ever test a Trainmaster in pass. service? >> Don't know about the "ever" part, but, IIRC, in the early 60s, the hands on guys were Assistant Train Masters (ATM). There must have been a Passenger Service ATM at Suburban Station and another at Penn Station in NYC. One of the most interesting career transtions I can recall, involved the ATM in Cincinnati. His name was Walter Rocky. He was ATM went I left Cincinnati and after I was eventually promoted to NYC, the same Walter Rocky became Harbor Master, responsible for the Pennsy fleet of tugs and lighters in New York Harbor. When I learned of the activities in the Harbor and the unions involved, I wondered what in the job of ATM qualified an individual to become Harbor Master. Wasn't there only one Traimaster on the system and weren't the paper train orders all issued in his name? Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR FM Pass. Trainmasters? Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:35:56 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3501579F8815D511AEC6009027CCB5D3553B39@HERZOGMGMT> Return-Path: bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Apr 2004 20:27:42.0560 (UTC) FILETIME=[C5CCE600:01C42195] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Wow! I didn't know that the FM Trainmasters ever had "Assistants". They DID have "babies" however. Some people referred to the H-16-66s as Baby Trainmasters. I guess that the tugboats with FM engines could have been called "Harbormasters". There WERE a bunch of tugs in New York harbor powered by FM. PRR DID buy the Alco version of the trainmaster in the 1956 era with the ARS-24ms class but that was more for the passenger helper mode than hauling commuters a la CNJ. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of LAMAassoc@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 3:57 PM To: RDG2124@aol.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR FM Pass. Trainmasters? In a message dated 4/13/04 1:31:15 PM, RDG2124@aol.com writes: << Did the Pennsy ever have the Trainmasters assigned to passenger service? Did they ever test a Trainmaster in pass. service? >> Don't know about the "ever" part, but, IIRC, in the early 60s, the hands on guys were Assistant Train Masters (ATM). There must have been a Passenger Service ATM at Suburban Station and another at Penn Station in NYC. One of the most interesting career transtions I can recall, involved the ATM in Cincinnati. His name was Walter Rocky. He was ATM went I left Cincinnati and after I was eventually promoted to NYC, the same Walter Rocky became Harbor Master, responsible for the Pennsy fleet of tugs and lighters in New York Harbor. When I learned of the activities in the Harbor and the unions involved, I wondered what in the job of ATM qualified an individual to become Harbor Master. Wasn't there only one Traimaster on the system and weren't the paper train orders all issued in his name? Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:45:51 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR FM Pass. Trainmasters? X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 46 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In a message dated 4/13/04 3:08:54 PM, LAMAassoc@aol.com writes: << << Did the Pennsy ever have the Trainmasters assigned to passenger service? Did they ever test a Trainmaster in pass. service? >> >> I didn't realize that the Pennsy ever utilized an engine called the "Trainmaster." It must have caused a lot of silly humor every time the Road Foreman of Engines (RFE) had to take a "Tranimaster" out of service. Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: RE: [PRR] AS16a questions Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:18:29 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <407C3E3C.3020900@pennsyrr.com> X-SLUIDL: 764C1A74-22154491-A7563D17-B3058B8A Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Howdy Jeff: The big difference between the RSD4 and RSD5 was the main generator. The RSD5 used the same generator as the PA2 The RSD4 was built from 3/51 to 8/52 The RSD5 was built from 3/52 to 3/56 All the PRR units where built after the RSD4 was out of production. MU stuff: As delivered, they ran independently, with no multi unit control. I checked two sources for the conversion date of 1965. By 1965 the MU configuration of the 27pin Electrical and 3 or 4 pneumatic connections was an ARR standard. So the last question would be yes they could mu with the AS16m (ARS16[s]) after the conversion to AS16am (ARS16a) They received their MU capabilities around the time they went north to Renovo. They all went to PC. PPII labels them as RSD4 but based on build date they are all RSD5. So does my PC Bi-Annual I don't know what the spotting differences would be - sorry Cos Wayne S. Betty Cos Communications, Inc. Small business IT services. Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone "If we can not have what we like, we must learn to like what we have!" John Paul Jones -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Warner Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 3:24 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] AS16a questions Hello all: I have seen several sources, including Pennsy Power II and Pennsy Power III refer to these as RSD-4's. Other sources (such as Keystone Crossings refers to them as RSD-5's... Anybody know which one they were or what the differences were? Also, KC states that in 1961, MU capability was added making them class AS16am. Before 1961, could they not even MU with each other? Or, could they only not MU to other locos? Finally, after 1961, could they MU with class AS16m (RS-3)? Thanks, Jeff Warner ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg Yard Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:51:28 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: A few weeks ago I brought up the use of the Harrisburg Yard for discussion. After several posts, I voiced the theory that perhaps most mineral trains -- in both directions -- were routed through Harrisburg to keep them out of Enola to reduce traffic there since classification was not required. In current times, these trains do go through Enola. I suspected this started in the Conrail era. Nobody knew for sure. The March, 1978, issue of "Rails Northeast" contains a reprint of a "Penn Central Merger Study Operational Plan, Part II". It describes Harrisburg as follows: "Harrisburg Yard is entirely a flat switching operation. Other than local industrial activity, its principal function is the relaying of fast preference freight trains, both east and west, as well as relaying heavy eastbound coal trains and westbound ore trains." "After merger the relaying of preference trains will be substantially reduced via Harrisburg -- the remaining trains will be rerouted via Enola. Classification at Enola will remain relatively unchanged. There will be only a slight reduction in switching at Enola by reason of overheading via the Central to and from the New York area. The number of its relay trains will be reduced only slightly." "The diesel maintenance shop will be expanded." So, my theory seems to be the case as of the 1968 merger... which lends support for it being in place in 1954. Though certainly not proving it, by any means. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <0200A5AE-8DAF-11D8-ABC9-000A9581CCA6@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] A Record Day Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:59:39 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Reading the March 1979 issue of Rails Northeast and an article on "1948 Traffic Density on the Pennsy". It reports... "The record day (peak) at Gallitzin was July 25, 1943. On that day 222 freight trains passed through the portals of Gallitzin's tunnels. 5,184 cars eastward and 5,961 cars westward for a record one day total of 11,145 cars. Something like 120 passenger trains were logged that day as well." Wow! 342 trains in one day over four tracks! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:00:27 -0500 From: Randy Subject: RE: [PRR] AS16a questions Subject: [PRR] N.E. Proto Meet, June 4-5, Collinsville, CT Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:16:32 -0400 From: "Owens, David" Folks: Please excuse this intrusion. If it's off topic, please pardon me. 2nd New England/Northeast Prototype Modelers Meet 9 a.m. to late evening June 4-5, (Friday and Saturday) Canton Community Center 40 Dyer Avenue Collinsville, Connecticut Meet cost is $20 in advance, $25 at the door.=20 =20 Two days of clinics, model displays and camaraderie intended to teach = you a few new modeling tricks and to get you excited about doing some model railroading.=20 =20 The ever-evolving list of speakers includes: =20 Mike Rose and Ned Carey, who will do a clinic on prototype weathering = with a hands-on element in which they'll guide participants as they work = on their own models. Bring a freight car and if you're able a prototype = photo that you can use as a guide. =20 Roger Moreau, a magnificent modeler from Winsted, Connecticut, will = demonstrate the scratch building skills he's developed. His = scratch-built Schnable cars were a big hit at last year's meet. Roger is = now working on a dockside container crane. =20 John Greene, of Bethlehem Car Works, will speak about the milk market = served by the Reading, Central of New Jersey and Pennsylvania railroads. =20 Den Lippert, a well-known modeler from Pittsburgh, will present = interesting things to model - photos taken over the past 15 years. =20 Others presenting clinics and slide shows include Mike Tylick, whose = work has been seen in Model Railroader magazine, Jimmy Tylick, Ramon = Rhodes, Pete McLachlan, Al Westerfield, Ben Brown, Dave Geisler, George = Barrett, Jeff Hanke and Bob Lamay.=20 =20 The heart of any prototype meet is the model display and all are = encouraged to bring some models to display - even incomplete models. There are no contests or judging. Come learn, show your models, and share your skills = and techniques with others. =20 For more information, contact me at dowens@courant.com or 203-757-8663. = We're also always looking for new presenters. Please contact me if = you're interested. =20 To preregister, mail a check payable to N.E. Proto Meet to Fran Richard, = 34 Ellsworth Road, West Hartford, CT 06107. =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C421C6.80E087FA Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Folks:

Please excuse this = intrusion. If=20 it’s off topic, please pardon me.

2^nd New=20 England/Northeast Prototype Modelers Meet

9 a.m. to late = evening

June 4-5, (Friday and = Saturday)

Canton Community = Center

40 Dyer Avenue

Collinsville, = Connecticut

Meet cost is $20 in = advance, $25=20 at the door.

Two days of clinics, model displays = and=20 camaraderie intended to teach you a

few new modeling tricks and to get = you=20 excited about doing some model

railroading.

The ever-evolving list of speakers=20 includes:

Mike Rose and Ned Carey, who will = do a clinic=20 on prototype weathering with a hands-on element in which they’ll = guide=20 participants as they work on their own models. Bring a freight car and = if you’re=20 able a prototype photo that you can use as a = guide.

Roger Moreau, a = magnificent=20 modeler from Winsted, Connecticut, will demonstrate the scratch building = skills=20 he’s developed. His scratch-built Schnable cars were a big hit at = last year’s=20 meet. Roger is now working on a dockside container crane.

John Greene, of = Bethlehem Car=20 Works, will speak about the milk market served by the Reading, Central = of New=20 Jersey and Pennsylvania railroads.

Den Lippert, a = well-known modeler=20 from Pittsburgh, will present interesting things to model – photos = taken over=20 the past 15 years.

Others=20 presenting clinics and slide shows include Mike Tylick, whose work has = been seen=20 in Model Railroader magazine, Jimmy Tylick, Ramon Rhodes, Pete = McLachlan, Al=20 Westerfield, Ben Brown, Dave Geisler, George Barrett, Jeff Hanke and Bob = Lamay.=20

The heart of any prototype meet is = the model=20 display and all are encouraged

to bring some models to display - = even=20 incomplete models. There are no

contests or judging. Come learn, = show your=20 models, and share your skills and

techniques with = others.

For more information, contact me at = dowens@courant.com or = 203-757-8663. We’re=20 also always looking for new presenters. Please contact me if = you’re=20 interested.

To preregister, mail a check = payable to N.E.=20 Proto Meet to Fran Richard, 34 Ellsworth Road, West Hartford, CT=20 06107.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C421C6.80E087FA-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:17:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Will Enser Subject: Re: [PRR] A Record Day Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:34:03 -0500 From: Randy Subject: Re: [PRR] A Record Day From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Re: [PRR] A Record Day Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:32:36 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: And that probably doesn't include any pusher moves back and forth. Brian J Carlson P.E. Cheektowaga NY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Enser" To: "Jerry @ Pennsy" Cc: "PRR-talk" Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 10:17 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] A Record Day > > > Just a little quick math here... > > 24 hours x 60 min per hour = 2080 mins > > 2080/342 = avg of 1 train every 4.2 mins (if my math is correct) > > Wow! is right Jerry! > > On Tue, 13 Apr 2004, Jerry @ Pennsy wrote: > > >Reading the March 1979 issue of Rails Northeast and an article on "1948 > >Traffic Density on the Pennsy". It reports... > > > >"The record day (peak) at Gallitzin was July 25, 1943. On that day 222 > >freight trains passed through the portals of Gallitzin's tunnels. 5,184 > >cars eastward and 5,961 cars westward for a record one day total of > >11,145 cars. Something like 120 passenger trains were logged that day > >as well." > > > >Wow! 342 trains in one day over four tracks! > >----------------------------------------------------------- > >Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > >Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > >"Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > >"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > Will Semanchuk-Enser Blue Moon Internet Corp General Manager > www.bluemoon.net Internet Access & Web Hosting > www.railfan.net Railfan Network Services > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:53:29 -0400 From: Ken Meyer Subject: [PRR] John Franz Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Send me your e-mail address. Ken Meyer Bel Air, MD ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian Butcher" Subject: [PRR] Trainmasters Demonstartors TM1 / TM-2 on PRR passenger test Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:02:12 -0400 >>>> Subject: PRR FM Pass. Trainmasters? From: > Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 14:12:11 EDT SPF, Did the Pennsy ever have the Trainmasters assigned to passenger = service? =20 Did they ever test a Trainmaster in pass. service? Evan Leisey <<<<< Train Master Demo locomotives TM-1 / TM-2 are published in PPIII pulling = a "Limited" out of Pittsburgh Station. Photo credited May 19th 1953. Brian Butcher www.yahoogroups.com/group/PRR-n_scale ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C421AB.5B64E680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

>>>>
Subject: PRR FM Pass. Trainmasters?
From: = <RDG2124@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 13 = Apr 2004=20 14:12:11 EDT

SPF,

Did the Pennsy ever have = the=20 Trainmasters assigned to passenger service?
Did they ever test = a=20 Trainmaster in pass. service?

Evan = Leisey
<<<<<

Train Master Demo locomotives TM-1 / TM-2 are published in = PPIII=20 pulling a "Limited" out of Pittsburgh Station. Photo credited May 19th=20 1953.

Brian Butcher

www.yahoogroups.com= /group/PRR-n_scale

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C421AB.5B64E680-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:05:56 -0700 From: Peter Weiglin Subject: [PRR] PRR FM Train Masters and Trainmasters Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: > Evan Leisey wrote: > Did the Pennsy ever have the Trainmasters assigned to passenger service? Did > they ever test a Trainmaster in pass. service? = = = = I'm sure they did have trainmasters in passenger service; but then, a "Trainmaster" wasn't a locomotive. The H24-66 locomotive made by Fairbanks-Morse was named by them the "Train Master," not "Trainmaster. Two words. A "Trainmaster" was (and is) a middle management official, with, it seems, considerably less power than the locomotive. Vas you effer in Zinzinnati? Zee you dere. Peter Weiglin San Mateo, CA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ken Meyer Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:53:29 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] John Franz Send me your e-mail address. Ken Meyer Bel Air, MD ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 08:58:23 EDT Subject: [PRR] Eastern Kentucky Coal via Louisville In a message dated 3/28/04 8:54:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: > Listfellows: > > I was revisiting Jerry Taylor's excellent "Sampling of Penn Central" the > other day when I happened on a reference to L&N coal going via > Louisville and the Louisville branch. And again, I'm a bit baffled, if > only because my understanding was that most of the L&N's coal to the PRR > went by way of Cincinnati. > > If the bulk of this coal came from eastern Kentucky, primarily off the > Hazard and Norton branches of the L&N, why would it have been routed to > Louisville? (Perhaps Brother Tipton--who's L&N connections are > impeccable--can clear this up.) In any event, where am I going wrong on > this? > > Richard Wallis Richard, Spotted this while catching up with emails sent during my vacation. Hazard (KY) is on L&N's Eastern Kentucky Division. Norton (VA) is at the far eastern end of L&N's Cumberland Valley line. Either line might send coal via Louisville due to the vagaries of traffic practice back in the days when multiple-route tariffs were common. Some things to consider: 1. From 1916 until the 1980's, the L&N was an 800-pound gorilla in coal traffic. Its flows were not as large as N&W or C&O's, but a huge amount of coal came out of Eastern Kentucky on both the EK Division and (farther south) the Cumberland Valley Division. 2. Most of this coal went north (mostly downgrade on the L&N) until unit trains began to serve utilities south of Kentucky. 3. Some of this coal went Cincinnati-Xenia-Columbus-Sandusky for shipment up the Great Lakes (often to steel mills right on Lake Michigan). (we were able to put some great N2sa pix in PRRT&HS' new book, The Pennsylvania Railroad in Cincinnati). 4. Some of this coal went onto the B&O or NYC, Cincinnati to Dayton or Lima or Toledo or Detroit, often to generating plants. 5. Some of this coal went Cincinnati-Indianapolis-Chicago (NYC) or Cincinnati-Richmond-Logansport-Chicago (PRR) for rail delivery to Chicago, especially to steel mills 6. But there was still enough to be interchanged to the Pennsy at Jeffersonville Indiana, PRR's yard just across the river from Louisville. EK coal could go Winchester KY-Lexington-Frankfort-Anchorage-Louisville and then to PRR. CV coal could go north from Corbin KY and then divert to the Lebanon Branch, which fed into the L&N main line from Nashville TN and Bowling Green KY, continuing north from Lebanon Jct. KY into Louisville. 7. From Louisville/Jeffersonville, L&N coal was forwarded up the Louisville Branch to Indianapolis, where it either swung west onto Belt trackage at Dale tower or continued north to IU tower and turned west onto the main, passing along the south side of Indianapolis Union Station. On either route, a short trip out to Ben Davis reached the built-in-1916-for-coal-traffic I&F line (Indianapolis & Frankfort) leading north to Frankfort, Logansport, and Chicago. Of course, the facts are that most railfans are aware only of coal movement to Sandusky -- and that because of the Santa Fe 5011-class engines leased to PRR in 1956. All I can say is that media and fan attention to Lines West was spotty -- it's a wonder we have any pictures of the Pennsy in the area at all. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Old Reliable, and its connections with the Pennsylvania Railroad at Cincinnati and Louisville --part1_67.267cb444.2dae8f6f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 3/28/04 8:54:54=20= AM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes:

Listfellows:

I was revisiting Jerry Taylor's excellent "Sampling of Penn Central" the other day when I happened on a reference to L&N coal going via
Louisville and the Louisville branch. And again, I'm a bit baffled, if=
only because my understanding was that most of the L&N's coal to the PRR=
went by way of Cincinnati.

If the bulk of this coal came from eastern Kentucky, primarily off the
Hazard and Norton branches of the L&N, why would it have been routed to=20=
Louisville? (Perhaps Brother Tipton--who's L&N connections are impeccable--can clear this up.) In any event, where am I going wrong o= n
this?

Richard Wallis

Richard,

Spotted this while catching up with emails sent during my vacation. Ha= zard (KY) is on L&N's Eastern Kentucky Division. Norton (VA) is at= the far eastern end of L&N's Cumberland Valley line. Either line=20= might send coal via Louisville due to the vagaries of traffic practice back=20= in the days when multiple-route tariffs were common.

Some things to consider:

1. From 1916 until the 1980's, the L&N was an 800-pound gorilla in= coal traffic. Its flows were not as large as N&W or C&O's, bu= t a huge amount of coal came out of Eastern Kentucky on both the EK Division= and (farther south) the Cumberland Valley Division.

2. Most of this coal went north (mostly downgrade on the L&N) unti= l unit trains began to serve utilities south of Kentucky.

3. Some of this coal went Cincinnati-Xenia-Columbus-Sandusky for shipm= ent up the Great Lakes (often to steel mills right on Lake Michigan). =20= (we were able to put some great N2sa pix in PRRT&HS' new book, The Penns= ylvania Railroad in Cincinnati).

4. Some of this coal went onto the B&O or NYC, Cincinnati to Dayto= n or Lima or Toledo or Detroit, often to generating plants.

5. Some of this coal went Cincinnati-Indianapolis-Chicago (NYC) or Cin= cinnati-Richmond-Logansport-Chicago (PRR) for rail delivery to Chicago, espe= cially to steel mills

6. But there was still enough to be interchanged to the Pennsy at Jeff= ersonville Indiana, PRR's yard just across the river from Louisville. =20= EK coal could go Winchester KY-Lexington-Frankfort-Anchorage-Louisville and=20= then to PRR. CV coal could go north from Corbin KY and then divert to=20= the Lebanon Branch, which fed into the L&N main line from Nashville TN a= nd Bowling Green KY, continuing north from Lebanon Jct. KY into Louisville.<= BR>
7. From Louisville/Jeffersonville, L&N coal was forwarded up the L= ouisville Branch to Indianapolis, where it either swung west onto Belt track= age at Dale tower or continued north to IU tower and turned west onto the ma= in, passing along the south side of Indianapolis Union Station. On eit= her route, a short trip out to Ben Davis reached the built-in-1916-for-coal-= traffic I&F line (Indianapolis & Frankfort) leading north to Frankfo= rt, Logansport, and Chicago.

Of course, the facts are that most railfans are aware only of coal movement=20= to Sandusky -- and that because of the Santa Fe 5011-class engines leased to= PRR in 1956. All I can say is that media and fan attention to Lines W= est was spotty -- it's a wonder we have any pictures of the Pennsy in the ar= ea at all.

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Old Reliable, and its connections with the Pennsylvania Rail= road at Cincinnati and Louisville --part1_67.267cb444.2dae8f6f_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:00:31 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Cabin marker light color From: Bruce Smith Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gang, A simple question this morning...but I can't seem to find the answer I need... What color was the BODY (not the lenses) of the marker lamps used on cabin cars circa 1944...black or yellow? If it was black, when did it change to yellow? Thanks Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:00:31 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Cabin marker light color From: Bruce Smith Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gang, A simple question this morning...but I can't seem to find the answer I need... What color was the BODY (not the lenses) of the marker lamps used on cabin cars circa 1944...black or yellow? If it was black, when did it change to yellow? Thanks Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 10:09:14 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] A Record Day Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:15:19 -0400 Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS and Internet Access From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <11F2B543-8E48-11D8-B6DB-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The Best Western, where the PRRT&HS annual meeting will be held in two weeks, advertises Internet access. Since this can come in numerous forms -- modem ports, ethernet, etc. -- I gave them a call for clarification. Excellent news: The entire hotel, including conference areas, is a wireless "hot spot"!!! Not only will attendees be able to access PRR-talk, but I'll be able to upload photo coverage to Keystone Crossings and... gee, ought to take my web cam along!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Lansing Illinois depot Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:27:45 +0000 Message-Id: <438A4D40-8E73-11D8-956D-000A9581CCA6@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Convention / Harrisburg Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:24:31 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Anyone going to the PRRT&HS annual meeting in two weeks that shares my interest in the historical/prototype aspects of Harrisburg? Maybe we could get together and share notes/photos. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Personal" Subject: [PRR] Need info. on 2 PRR plaques I received Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:54:18 -0400 TODAY I WROTE JERRY THE FOLLOWING; Dear Jerry, I have admired your dedication to the P.R.R. in my recent revival to my = train hobby. Having just joined your "PRR-talk", I was unsure how to post the = following question, so I thought I would run it by your first. I have an engine plate that says that says "General Electric 78685 = 11/'50 My Father-in-Law worked for the P.R.R. all his life, and says it came off a locomotive that was wrecked in North N.J.. He also gave me an oval brass plaque that says "Pennsylvania" across the = top of the arch and the numbers "15815" in the flat polished surface in the middle. Do you have any way that I can find out any history about these pieces ? = i.e. the type of engine this was or what the smaller plaque is, road #, = where to get pictures of it etc. ?=20 Would appreciate any insite you can give, people to contact, web-sites, = reference, etc. ?=20 You can contact me by return e-mail, or if you prefer,=20 call me anytime @ 814-231-3885 and I will return your call.=20 Eric Trenga State College, PA -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- HE RESPONDED; Welcome to the list, Eric! I don't have your answer, but I am confident someone on the list will.=20 Just post away! -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Is there anyone out there that can help me in my question for this = information? ------=_NextPart_000_00B0_01C4226B.090C69B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

TODAY I WROTE JERRY THE=20 FOLLOWING;

Dear Jerry,

I have admired your dedication to the = P.R.R. in my=20 recent revival to my train hobby.

Having just joined your "PRR-talk", I = was unsure=20 how to post the following question,

so I thought I would run it by your=20 first.

I have an engine plate that says that = says "General=20 Electric 78685 11/'50

My Father-in-Law worked for the P.R.R. = all his=20 life, and says it came

off a locomotive that was wrecked in = North=20 N.J..

He also gave me an oval brass plaque that says "Pennsylvania" = across the=20 top of the arch and

the numbers "15815" in the flat polished surface in the = middle.

Do you have any way that I can find out = any history=20 about these pieces ?

i.e. the type of engine this was or = what the=20 smaller plaque is, road #, where to get pictures = of it etc.=20 ?

Would appreciate any insite you can = give, people to=20 contact, web-sites, reference, etc. ?

You can contact me by return e-mail, or = if you=20 prefer,

call me anytime @ 814-231-3885 and I = will return=20 your call.

Eric Trenga

State College, PA

HE RESPONDED;

Welcome to the list, Eric!

I don't have your answer, but I = am=20 confident someone on the list will.
Just post away!

Is there anyone out there that can help me in my question for this=20 information?

------=_NextPart_000_00B0_01C4226B.090C69B0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:01:26 -0400 From: TWRimer@uss.com Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/15/04 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:01:26 -0400 From: TWRimer@uss.com Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/15/04 From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] Junctions (was PRR-Talk Digest - 04/15/04) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 06:41:57 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Too lazy to dig it out of the library, but do Kiskiminitas (sp?) or Mingo Junction qualify? Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: > Did the Pennsy ever use the term "Junction" at the point where a branchline > met the mainline or secondary line, > or was the name used only at points where the PRR connected with another > railroad? I'm looking for an > example of "Junction" being used where a branchline connected to the > another part of the PRR. > Thanks, > T. Rimer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/15/04 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:28:19 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <3501579F8815D511AEC6009027CCB5D3553CC7@HERZOGMGMT> Return-Path: bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Apr 2004 12:20:02.0070 (UTC) FILETIME=[FA03F360:01C422E3] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Howabout Princeton Junction, Frankford Junction, Kiski Junction, Mingo Junction, for openers? -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of TWRimer@uss.com Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 7:01 AM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/15/04 Did the Pennsy ever use the term "Junction" at the point where a branchline met the mainline or secondary line, or was the name used only at points where the PRR connected with another railroad? I'm looking for an example of "Junction" being used where a branchline connected to the another part of the PRR. Thanks, T. Rimer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:20:58 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/15/04 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, And, Homewood Jct, 34 miles west of Pgh on the Ft Wayne Main. And according to reports, the low grade line across the Beaver River will be getting some much needed Bridge repairs in Wampaum which means the single track Kopple Branch at Homewood Jct will be seeing a huge increase of traffic. This is supposed to be done sometime starting in July......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:49:25 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/15/04 In a message dated 4/15/2004 7:17:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, TWRimer@uss.com writes: > I'm looking for an > example of "Junction" being used where a branchline connected to the > another part of the PRR. > Off-the-top-of-the-head: Mantua Junction, Frankford Junction, Monmouth Junction, Princeton Junction were all all-PRR. Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA --part1_83.98b1d31.2dafded5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message=20= dated 4/15/2004 7:17:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, TWRimer@uss.com writes:

I'm looking for an
example of "Junction" being used where a branchline connecte= d to the
another part of the PRR.

Off-the-top-of-the-head: Mantua Junction, Frankford Junction, Monmouth
Junction, Princeton Junction were all all-PRR.

Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA --part1_83.98b1d31.2dafded5_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:50:42 -0400 Subject: [PRR] (Tangent) Train Show MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, Sunday April 18th is the annual spring train show and sale sponsored by the Beaver Valley Model Railroad and Historical Society. The sale will be held at the Center Stage in Center Twp near the Beaver Valley Mall. This is the same location for the past 7-8 years. Hours are 10-3. Aprox 90 tables for dealers and collectors from the local, Ohio and Pittsburgh areas to sale their O, HO, N, Lionel etc goods. The Northern Allegheny Model Railroad Club will also display their modular layout at the sale. At the same time the sale is going on the Beaver Valley Club will be holding an open house. Their headquarters is located in the old P&LE Freight Station in Monaca Pa. near the American Legion. I believe those hours are 12-3or4?. Suppose to be a nice day so get to the show before you start that lawn work and spring garage cleanup. Email for more info......Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:50:42 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] (Tangent) Train Show List, Sunday April 18th is the annual spring train show and sale sponsored by the Beaver Valley Model Railroad and Historical Society. The sale will be held at the Center Stage in Center Twp near the Beaver Valley Mall. This is the same location for the past 7-8 years. Hours are 10-3. Aprox 90 tables for dealers and collectors from the local, Ohio and Pittsburgh areas to sale their O, HO, N, Lionel etc goods. The Northern Allegheny Model Railroad Club will also display their modular layout at the sale. At the same time the sale is going on the Beaver Valley Club will be holding an open house. Their headquarters is located in the old P&LE Freight Station in Monaca Pa. near the American Legion. I believe those hours are 12-3or4?. Suppose to be a nice day so get to the show before you start that lawn work and spring garage cleanup. Email for more info......Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:16:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/15/04 From: Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: New Portage Jct. at Duncansville, where the New Portage Branch and the Hollidaysburg & Petersburg converged. Morrison's Cove Jct. at Hollidaysburg, where the Morrison's Cove Branch left the H&P. Martinsburg Jct. outside of Martinsburg, PA, where the Martinsburg Branch left the Morrison's Cove branch. Keith > Did the Pennsy ever use the term "Junction" at the point where a > branchline met the mainline or secondary line, or was the name used > only at points where the PRR connected with another railroad? I'm > looking for an example of "Junction" being used where a branchline > connected to the another part of the PRR. Thanks, T. Rimer > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: [PRR] PRR Clock Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:49:34 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-MDRemoteIP: 192.0.1.150 X-Return-Path: geshick@velocity.net X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: prr-talk@dsop.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: A visitor to my site asked for info about a PRR clock he has. If you can help, please reply to: miller1982@comcast.net Please also post your reply here. Thanks. "My name is Steven Miller. I am from Hershey, PA. I am trying to trace the history of an old clock that may be linked to the PRR in Altoona in the early 1900's. I bought it from someone who seemed to think it had a very strong link although he had no proof. So, as I begin my search, I'm starting by sending e-mails to addresses I came across on the internet that appear to be possible sources of information. Your address is one I came across. I'll briefly describe the clock and ask you to advise me as best you can as to how to proceed and/or forward my message onto an organization or someone that may be of assistance. The clock is a Seth Thomas #2 Wall Regulator. The classic railroad station clock, historically they were often hung in PRR railroad stations. The dial of the clock has a painted 4 digit number (1119) on it. Historically, railroads often numbered their station clocks in order to identify their age, placement and servicing sequence. There is a hand written date of 8-29-07 along with the initials PRR at the bottom of the dial under the ring. The clock movement, original to the clock and historically from the early 1900's has PRR scratched into a flat part of the metal surface. On the back of the clock, in what appears to be very old writing is "Altoona". I am looking for any possible link, such as the possibility that PRR stations had numbers that may match the number on the clock dial. Perhaps some archive list exists that details all the clocks owned and maintained by the PRR in that time frame. Any advice and direction would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Steve Miller" ----------- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:26:53 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: [PRR] Junction Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Greetings to Jerry and the List: Lewistown Junction Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. TWRimer@uss.com wrote: > > >Did the Pennsy ever use the term "Junction" at the point where a branchline >met the mainline or secondary line, >or was the name used only at points where the PRR connected with another >railroad? I'm looking for an >example of "Junction" being used where a branchline connected to the >another part of the PRR. >Thanks, >T. Rimer > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:39:44 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Junctions From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, April 15, 2004, at 11:26 AM, Dan Cupper wrote: > Greetings to Jerry and the List: > > > Lewistown Junction Wago Junction ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:40:39 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/15/04 From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:48:59 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/15/04 X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 46 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In a message dated 4/15/04 6:17:48 AM, TWRimer@uss.com writes: << Did the Pennsy ever use the term "Junction" at the point where a branchline met the mainline or secondary line, or was the name used only at points where the PRR connected with another railroad? I'm looking for an example of "Junction" being used where a branchline connected to the another part of the PRR. >> "Kiski Junction," "Kiskiminitas (sp?) Junction" ? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:03:55 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Junctions From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <7F854651-8EF6-11D8-9676-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Interesting comment about Wago Junction.... Wago Junction was located in the Philadelphia Division for most of the history of the PRR. The Northern Central branch approached from the south via York and the Atglen & Susquehanna "Low Grade" branch approached from the southeast. They came together along the Susquehanna River at Wago Junction. For the next 20 miles they ran as two parallel, two-track lines to Enola. The point of all of this is, that although the two branches came together at a location called Wago Junction, there was actually no connection between them!!! It was about three miles later that the first interlocking occured, at a location called Cly, which featured a classic Pennsy full, four-track interlocking. Any other examples of "junctions" without connections? The stakes rise!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:03:55 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Junctions From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <7F854651-8EF6-11D8-9676-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Interesting comment about Wago Junction.... Wago Junction was located in the Philadelphia Division for most of the history of the PRR. The Northern Central branch approached from the south via York and the Atglen & Susquehanna "Low Grade" branch approached from the southeast. They came together along the Susquehanna River at Wago Junction. For the next 20 miles they ran as two parallel, two-track lines to Enola. The point of all of this is, that although the two branches came together at a location called Wago Junction, there was actually no connection between them!!! It was about three miles later that the first interlocking occured, at a location called Cly, which featured a classic Pennsy full, four-track interlocking. Any other examples of "junctions" without connections? The stakes rise!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR] Junction Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:05:18 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: To add to Dan's answer, the mainline station for Lewistown, PA was long known as Lewistown Junction. Another station on the branch lines and within the borough limits of Lewistown (on Chestnut Street) was officially Lewistown Station. When branchline passenger service ended, the old Lewistown Station was closed, and Lewistown Junction Station was renamed Lewistown Station. This, of course, is the station that is owned and operated by the PRRT&HS, and is the home of its archives. Old names die hard, though. I'm not sure when the station on Chestnut Street closed, certainly by the late forties, when I saw it, and possibly before WW2. The area around the present Lewistown Station is still known as the Junction and the local fire department is the Junction Fire Company. Bob Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Cupper" To: Cc: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 11:26 AM Subject: [PRR] Junction | Greetings to Jerry and the List: | | | Lewistown Junction | | | Dan Cupper | Harrisburg, Pa. | | | TWRimer@uss.com wrote: | | > | > | >Did the Pennsy ever use the term "Junction" at the point where a branchline | >met the mainline or secondary line, | >or was the name used only at points where the PRR connected with another | >railroad? I'm looking for an | >example of "Junction" being used where a branchline connected to the | >another part of the PRR. | >Thanks, | >T. Rimer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:26:40 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Keystone Warehouse Co. From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <0EBBBDE3-8F02-11D8-9676-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Does anyone know if "Keystone Warehouse Co." was a moniker used for Pennsy freight warehouses? I see these listings in the CT1000 and, for instance, there were two near the passenger station in Harrisburg in 1945. One entry reads, in fact, "Harrisburg Frt. Sta. and Keystone Warehouse Co. No. 1". I'm wondering if, rather than the railroad owning the building, perhaps they were owned by Manor Real Estate (subsidiary of PRR) or some other similar arrangement. Just grasping at straws!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:37:40 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Junction Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Greetings to Bob, Jerry, and the List: I've seen postcards showing this station labeled "borough station" -- a municipally accurate way of defining its location. When two stations existed, only the one on Chestnut Street serving the S&L/M&CC branches was situated within the limits of Lewistown Borough. The mainline station at Lewistown Junction was and is situated in Granvillle Township. S&L passenger service ended sometime in the '30s with the coming of a substitute Pennsylvania Greyhound Lines bus service. Passenger service on the M&CC as far as Reedsville would have ended with the last run of the Kishacoquillas Valley Railroad in early 1940. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. --------------------------------------------------- Bob Johnson wrote: >To add to Dan's answer, the mainline station for Lewistown, PA was long >known as Lewistown Junction. Another station on the branch lines and within >the borough limits of Lewistown (on Chestnut Street) was officially >Lewistown Station. When branchline passenger service ended, the old >Lewistown Station was closed, and Lewistown Junction Station was renamed >Lewistown Station. This, of course, is the station that is owned and >operated by the PRRT&HS, and is the home of its archives. > >Old names die hard, though. I'm not sure when the station on Chestnut >Street closed, certainly by the late forties, when I saw it, and possibly >before WW2. The area around the present Lewistown Station is still known as >the Junction and the local fire department is the Junction Fire Company. > >Bob Johnson > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dan Cupper" >To: >Cc: "PRR-Talk" >Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 11:26 AM >Subject: [PRR] Junction > > >| Greetings to Jerry and the List: >| >| >| Lewistown Junction >| >| >| Dan Cupper >| Harrisburg, Pa. >| >| >| TWRimer@uss.com wrote: >| >| > >| > >| >Did the Pennsy ever use the term "Junction" at the point where a >branchline >| >met the mainline or secondary line, >| >or was the name used only at points where the PRR connected with another >| >railroad? I'm looking for an >| >example of "Junction" being used where a branchline connected to the >| >another part of the PRR. >| >Thanks, >| >T. Rimer > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:39:32 -0400 From: Joe Witcofsky Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/15/04 From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/15/04 From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:38:40 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Junctions MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry, The A&S (Atglen & Susquehanna) and the NC Branch ends at Wago Jct. West towards Enola the line becomes the York Haven Line. Tracks numbered from the south 1-2-3-4 to Stell interlocking. Hope this helps. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] The Pennsylvania Railroad in Cincinnati Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:36:42 -0400 For those of you not going to the PRRT&HS annual meeting in Cincinnati: The Society's book "The Pennsylvania Railroad in Cincinnati" is now for sale at the e-store: http://club-e-stores.com/prr/prrths_store.html Al ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C42320.FBC00E90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Message

For those of you not going to the=20 PRRT&HS annual meeting in Cincinnati: The Society's book "The=20 Pennsylvania Railroad in Cincinnati" is now for sale at the e-store: http://club-e-sto= res.com/prr/prrths_store.html

------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C42320.FBC00E90-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] The Pennsylvania Railroad in Cincinnati Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:36:42 -0400 For those of you not going to the PRRT&HS annual meeting in Cincinnati: The Society's book "The Pennsylvania Railroad in Cincinnati" is now for sale at the e-store: http://club-e-stores.com/prr/prrths_store.html Al ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C42320.FBC00E90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Message

------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C42320.FBC00E90-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: RE: [PRR] Junctions Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:32:58 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <1E1E1360-8EF3-11D8-9676-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In the Chicago Terminal Division there are: Alton Junction Colehour Junction Wolf Lake Junction Beverly Junction Clark Junction Andy Cich -----Original Message----- > Greetings to Jerry and the List: > > > Lewistown Junction Wago Junction ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:03:54 EDT Subject: [PRR] April 1974 tornadoes In a message dated 4/12/04 2:48:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: [PRR] Warsaw, Indiana; Palm Sunday 1965 > From: "Douglas Kirkpatrick" > Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:01:18 -0700 > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_00A3_01C4206C.B79998F0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > > The 1965 Tornados didn't stop at the Indiana line. I was attending = > college at Oberlin College in northern Ohio at that time and my english = > professor was killed when the nearby town of Wellington was wiped out by = > a tornado. > > Then, of course, there's the infamous F5 tornado that devastated Xenia, = > Ohio, in 1974. I wasn't at home in nearby Yellow Springs at the time but = > I suspect the Pennsy facilities in Xenia suffered major damage from that = > storm. > > Doug Kirkpatrick Actually, the tornado seems to have only nicked PRR's facilities in Xenia. At least, the only damage I remember online was that Greene tower had some shingles replaced on the west side. The tornado in question was one of a series as the same storm system roared northeast that day. First flattened was the small town of Brandenburg KY, downriver from Louisville. Then it tore a 12-mile track of destruction through Louisville neighborhoods; I had plenty of friends with damage, but one friend's house was torn off at ground level, with his canceled checks landing near Xenia. Next, Hanover Indiana (halfway from Louisville to Cincinnati) was hit; Hanover College had 23 out of 24 buildings damaged. The storm system continued on a track that passed just northwest of the Pennsy engine terminal at Xenia, stripping those shingles from Greene tower but flattening the western half of downtown Xenia in a minutes' time. One of the buildings ripped up was full of cartons of canceled checks; some were found as far away as Canton OH (up on the Fort Wayne line). I can't remember what additional mischief was wrought, but even though I'd moved away, the loss of half our county seat made quite an impression on me. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_f.26e4cb67.2db0990a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 4/12/04 2:48:30=20= PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:

Subject: Re: [PRR] Warsaw, Indi= ana; Palm Sunday 1965
From: "Douglas Kirkpatrick" <kirkpat@charter.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:01:18 -0700

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=3D_NextPart_000_00A3_01C4206C.B79998F0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=3D"iso-8859-1"

The 1965 Tornados didn't stop at the Indiana line. I was attending =3D
college at Oberlin College in northern Ohio at that time and my english =3D<= BR> professor was killed when the nearby town of Wellington was wiped out by=20= =3D
a tornado.

Then, of course, there's the infamous F5 tornado that devastated Xenia, =3D<= BR> Ohio, in 1974. I wasn't at home in nearby Yellow Springs at the time but=20= =3D
I suspect the Pennsy facilities in Xenia suffered major damage from that=20= =3D
storm.

Doug Kirkpatrick

Actually, the tornado seems to have only nicked PRR's facilities in Xenia.&n= bsp; At least, the only damage I remember online was that Greene tower had s= ome shingles replaced on the west side.

The tornado in question was one of a series as the same storm system roared=20= northeast that day. First flattened was the small town of Brandenburg=20= KY, downriver from Louisville. Then it tore a 12-mile track of destruc= tion through Louisville neighborhoods; I had plenty of friends with damage,=20= but one friend's house was torn off at ground level, with his canceled check= s landing near Xenia. Next, Hanover Indiana (halfway from Louisville t= o Cincinnati) was hit; Hanover College had 23 out of 24 buildings damaged.
The storm system continued on a track that passed just northwest of the Penn= sy engine terminal at Xenia, stripping those shingles from Greene tower but=20= flattening the western half of downtown Xenia in a minutes' time. One=20= of the buildings ripped up was full of cartons of canceled checks; some were= found as far away as Canton OH (up on the Fort Wayne line). I can't r= emember what additional mischief was wrought, but even though I'd moved away= , the loss of half our county seat made quite an impression on me. &nbs= p;

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_f.26e4cb67.2db0990a_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:03:45 EDT Subject: [PRR] Panhandle (PCC&StL) main line In a message dated 4/15/04 1:12:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Lansing, Illinois is located in the south suburbs of Chicago near the > Indiana state line and is on a secondary track that went to among other places > Cedar Lake, Indiana as a reference. Norm, Lansing was on the Panhandle's main into Chicago. One thing I don't know offhand -- back in the Twenties & before, when there was commuter traffic on the Panhandle out of the north end of Chicago Union Station, how far out did the commuter trains run, and where did they tie up at night. A guess might be Dolton Yard, actually about midway between Dolton and Bernice. After the mainline passenger action was diverted into the south end of CUS (via the Bernice Cutoff, still in-town from Lansing), freights through Lansing still held the Panhandle main to reach 59th Street Yard. Trains came in via Logansport from Pittsburgh, Columbus, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, St. Louis, and other Panhandle points. In the Seventies, all this trackage in the Chicago area was still in use, and I think relatively busy. Eventually, of course, the PRR's "back door to Chicago" wasn't needed, and most of it was pulled up. See you in Cincinnati... Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_17.452519b3.2db09901_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a messa= ge dated 4/15/04 1:12:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:=

Lansing, Illinois is located in= the south suburbs of Chicago near the Indiana state line and is on a second= ary track that went to among other places Cedar Lake, Indiana as a reference= .

Norm,

Lansing was on the Panhandle's main into Chicago. One thing I don't kn= ow offhand -- back in the Twenties & before, when there was commuter tra= ffic on the Panhandle out of the north end of Chicago Union Station, how far= out did the commuter trains run, and where did they tie up at night. =20= A guess might be Dolton Yard, actually about midway between Dolton and Berni= ce.

After the mainline passenger action was diverted into the south end of CUS (= via the Bernice Cutoff, still in-town from Lansing), freights through Lansin= g still held the Panhandle main to reach 59th Street Yard. Trains came= in via Logansport from Pittsburgh, Columbus, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, St.=20= Louis, and other Panhandle points.

In the Seventies, all this trackage in the Chicago area was still in use, an= d I think relatively busy. Eventually, of course, the PRR's "back door= to Chicago" wasn't needed, and most of it was pulled up.

See you in Cincinnati...

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_17.452519b3.2db09901_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Alex Charyna Subject: Re: [PRR] Junction Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 21:32:57 -0500 To: prr-talk@dsop.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Philly area... Holmesburg Junction... Frankford Junction... though that kind of connected to the PRSL... -alex On Apr 15, 2004, at 10:26 AM, Dan Cupper wrote: > Greetings to Jerry and the List: > > > Lewistown Junction > > > Dan Cupper > Harrisburg, Pa. > > > TWRimer@uss.com wrote: > >> >> >> Did the Pennsy ever use the term "Junction" at the point where a >> branchline >> met the mainline or secondary line, >> or was the name used only at points where the PRR connected with >> another >> railroad? I'm looking for an >> example of "Junction" being used where a branchline connected to the >> another part of the PRR. >> Thanks, >> T. Rimer >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. >> >> > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Convention transportation Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 08:28:54 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Guys, I decided to fly to the convention at the last minute. I could not take all that driving with minimal cost savings. I have getting to the convention all taken care of. Is anyone flying out on Sunday at the Dayton airport for a 10:30 AM flight? I could use a ride to the airport. My friend called the convention hotel to see if they offered an airport shuttle. The desk clerk asked a coworker where was the Dayton airport. That is a little scary! BTW, if you have not booked your flight yet, my price searches for the past 2 months have consistently shown Dayton to be cheaper. I am going to Los Angeles tomorrow for a week, go to see and hopefully Come On Down on The Price Is Right on Monday, and be back here for a few days before going to the Pennsy Convention! Life is good! Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass PRR X29 in S Scale The REA version has been approved for production http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:42:25 -0500 Subject: [PRR] N-scale N2s From: Bruce Smith Message-Id: <83A43BA0-8FA3-11D8-87E3-000A958DAD46@mail.auburn.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Good morning SPFs, So far, no-one has commented on the Con-Cor advertisement on page 27 of the May issue of MR, but it looks interesting. Con-Cor is showing a USRA heavy 2-10-2 for N-scale, due Summer 2004 and they are releasing it in PENNSYLVANIA (Factory mounted micro-trains couplers, DCC ready, flywheel drive, $298). Now, before y'all go off the deep end on me, I KNOW that Con-Cor is pretty much synonymous with junk, but lately they seem to be turning over a new leaf (galloping goose, CB&Q Zephyrs). These locos were built with radial fireboxes, but IIRC, were modified to Belpair fireboxes by the PRR. While predominantly a Lines West locomotive, prior to WWII there are a number of photos of these in areas such as Wilmington DE. For those of you modeling the immediate post WWI era, especially LW, this looks like it might be an interesting addition, and who knows, it could become fodder for a conversion kit with a Belpair firebox. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:01:35 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] N-scale N2s From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, April 16, 2004, at 08:42 AM, Bruce Smith wrote: > So far, no-one has commented on the Con-Cor advertisement on page 27 > of the May issue of MR, but it looks interesting. Con-Cor is showing > a USRA heavy 2-10-2 for N-scale, due Summer 2004 and they are > releasing it in PENNSYLVANIA (Factory mounted micro-trains couplers, > DCC ready, flywheel drive, $298). This has, in fact, been discussed on the N scale list and on the Atlas N Scale Forum. I think the hesitation has been 1) Con-Cor's reputation; 2) The need for a firebox conversion; 3) How and where the PRR used this locomotive. > > Now, before y'all go off the deep end on me, I KNOW that Con-Cor is > pretty much synonymous with junk, but lately they seem to be turning > over a new leaf (galloping goose, CB&Q Zephyrs). Turning over a new leaf? Bruce, they offered the galloping goose in PRR!!! > > These locos were built with radial fireboxes, but IIRC, were modified > to Belpair fireboxes by the PRR. While predominantly a Lines West > locomotive, prior to WWII there are a number of photos of these in > areas such as Wilmington DE. > > For those of you modeling the immediate post WWI era, especially LW, > this looks like it might be an interesting addition, and who knows, it > could become fodder for a conversion kit with a Belpair firebox. I'll pass, but I am really appreciative that you are keeping an eye on N scale!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Convention side trip Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:37:35 +0000 From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Convention side trip Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:37:35 +0000 From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] A Momentous Occasion! Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:36:17 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, An S Scale record-breaking event happened this past Wednesday night. I ran my K4 pulling an 18-passenger car consist never before assembled in S Scale at my friend Bill Moore's house. You can get a taste of the action here: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/At_Home_On_The_Head_End.jpg The consist was: 1) Phlaudler Milk car River Raisin Models http://riverraisinmodels.com 1) REA X29 Pennsy S Models http://www.pennsysmodels.com 3) R50b Southwind Models http://www.southwindmodels.com/index.html 4) P70r Southwind Models 2) Troop cars River Raisin Models 1) X42 Kitbashed 1 of a kind, and OH the calamity of it all, NOT MINE!! 5) Various P70 Kitbashed from American Flyer cars by Vic Roseman 1) Observation S Helper Service http://www.showcaseline.com/index.html That is 11 brass cars! The K4 got a little slippery when I put the final 2 brass P70 on the train but it did pull it. It ran flawlessly! The River Raisin Troop Kitchen and Sleeper cars knocked me out. They have working diaphragms! It was a wonderful night running trains. Dan will be getting the studio photos of the painted X29 on our website hopefully tonight. The REA version of the X29 is starting production very soon. You can download the PDF order form there. I have also updated my Lanes Trains Website with some recently completed HO and O Scale models. Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass PRR X29 in S Scale The REA version has been approved for production http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 08:45:36 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] N-scale N2s From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, April 16, 2004, at 08:01 AM, Jerry Britton wrote: >> >> Now, before y'all go off the deep end on me, I KNOW that Con-Cor is >> pretty much synonymous with junk, but lately they seem to be turning >> over a new leaf (galloping goose, CB&Q Zephyrs). > > Turning over a new leaf? Bruce, they offered the galloping goose in > PRR!!! Yes, well...that is true but what I MEANT was that these new Con-Cor models are actually accurate scale representations of PROTOTYPE cars, AND have reliable mechanicals. It would be interesting to see the sales figures on those bogus schemes. Things have changed a lot in the past 20 years and I'll bet that not too many PRR geese get sold (Lord I HOPE not!). The rational for these is, of course, that the car would never sell enough in a real paint scheme to pay for the molding. This is why colorful tank car schemes predominate in models. Also, the only way C&NW fans were going to see their "shorty" (60') cars was if Walthers released them in other paints. Now, as predicted, we've started to see the fall-out of folks who are buying the PRR painted cars and then finding out that the scheme is bogus. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] BLI E-7's arriving today!!! Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:30:29 +0000 From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] BLI E-7's arriving today!!! Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:30:29 +0000 From: "Bill Lane" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 08:28:54 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Convention transportation Hi Guys, I decided to fly to the convention at the last minute. I could not take all that driving with minimal cost savings. I have getting to the convention all taken care of. Is anyone flying out on Sunday at the Dayton airport for a 10:30 AM flight? I could use a ride to the airport. My friend called the convention hotel to see if they offered an airport shuttle. The desk clerk asked a coworker where was the Dayton airport. That is a little scary! BTW, if you have not booked your flight yet, my price searches for the past 2 months have consistently shown Dayton to be cheaper. I am going to Los Angeles tomorrow for a week, go to see and hopefully Come On Down on The Price Is Right on Monday, and be back here for a few days before going to the Pennsy Convention! Life is good! Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass PRR X29 in S Scale The REA version has been approved for production http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Personal" Subject: [PRR] Need Help identifying plaques Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:13:57 -0400 Dear members of PRR Talk, I sent out this plea for help earlier this week and have not heard from = anyone. Thought that it might not have gone through. So, I am = resending -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- TODAY I WROTE JERRY THE FOLLOWING; Dear Jerry, I have admired your dedication to the P.R.R. in my recent revival to my = train hobby. Having just joined your "PRR-talk", I was unsure how to post the = following question, so I thought I would run it by your first. I have an engine plate that says that says "General Electric 78685 = 11/'50 My Father-in-Law worked for the P.R.R. all his life, and says it came off a locomotive that was wrecked in North N.J.. He also gave me an oval brass plaque that says "Pennsylvania" across the = top of the arch and the numbers "15815" in the flat polished surface in the middle. Do you have any way that I can find out any history about these pieces ? = i.e. the type of engine this was or what the smaller plaque is, road #, = where to get pictures of it etc. ?=20 Would appreciate any insite you can give, people to contact, web-sites, = reference, etc. ?=20 You can contact me by return e-mail, or if you prefer,=20 call me anytime @ 814-231-3885 and I will return your call.=20 Eric Trenga State College, PA -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- HE RESPONDED; Welcome to the list, Eric! I don't have your answer, but I am confident someone on the list will.=20 Just post away! -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Is there anyone out there that can help me in my quest for information? ------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C423B4.ACE9DEB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Dear members of = PRR=20 Talk,

I sent out this = plea for help=20 earlier this week and have not heard from anyone. Thought that it = might=20 not have gone through. So, I am resending

TODAY I = WROTE JERRY THE=20 FOLLOWING;

Dear Jerry,

I have admired your dedication to the = P.R.R. in my=20 recent revival to my train hobby.

Having just joined your "PRR-talk", I = was unsure=20 how to post the following question,

so I thought I would run it by your=20 first.

I have an engine plate that says that = says "General=20 Electric 78685 11/'50

My Father-in-Law worked for the P.R.R. = all his=20 life, and says it came

off a locomotive that was wrecked in = North=20 N.J..

He also gave me an oval brass plaque that says "Pennsylvania" = across the=20 top of the arch and

the numbers "15815" in the flat polished surface in the = middle.

Do you have any way that I can find out = any history=20 about these pieces ?

i.e. the type of engine this was or = what the=20 smaller plaque is, road #, where to get pictures = of it etc.=20 ?

Would appreciate any insite you can = give, people to=20 contact, web-sites, reference, etc. ?

You can contact me by return e-mail, or = if you=20 prefer,

call me anytime @ 814-231-3885 and I = will return=20 your call.

Eric Trenga

State College, PA

HE RESPONDED;

Welcome to the list, Eric!

I don't have your answer, but I = am=20 confident someone on the list will.
Just post away!

Is there anyone out there that = can help me in=20 my quest for information?

------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C423B4.ACE9DEB0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Personal" Subject: [PRR] Need Help identifying plaques Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:13:57 -0400 Dear members of PRR Talk, I sent out this plea for help earlier this week and have not heard from = anyone. Thought that it might not have gone through. So, I am = resending -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- TODAY I WROTE JERRY THE FOLLOWING; Dear Jerry, I have admired your dedication to the P.R.R. in my recent revival to my = train hobby. Having just joined your "PRR-talk", I was unsure how to post the = following question, so I thought I would run it by your first. I have an engine plate that says that says "General Electric 78685 = 11/'50 My Father-in-Law worked for the P.R.R. all his life, and says it came off a locomotive that was wrecked in North N.J.. He also gave me an oval brass plaque that says "Pennsylvania" across the = top of the arch and the numbers "15815" in the flat polished surface in the middle. Do you have any way that I can find out any history about these pieces ? = i.e. the type of engine this was or what the smaller plaque is, road #, = where to get pictures of it etc. ?=20 Would appreciate any insite you can give, people to contact, web-sites, = reference, etc. ?=20 You can contact me by return e-mail, or if you prefer,=20 call me anytime @ 814-231-3885 and I will return your call.=20 Eric Trenga State College, PA -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- HE RESPONDED; Welcome to the list, Eric! I don't have your answer, but I am confident someone on the list will.=20 Just post away! -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Is there anyone out there that can help me in my quest for information? ------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C423B4.ACE9DEB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Dear members of = PRR=20 Talk,

I sent out this = plea for help=20 earlier this week and have not heard from anyone. Thought that it = might=20 not have gone through. So, I am resending

TODAY I = WROTE JERRY THE=20 FOLLOWING;

Dear Jerry,

I have admired your dedication to the = P.R.R. in my=20 recent revival to my train hobby.

Having just joined your "PRR-talk", I = was unsure=20 how to post the following question,

so I thought I would run it by your=20 first.

I have an engine plate that says that = says "General=20 Electric 78685 11/'50

My Father-in-Law worked for the P.R.R. = all his=20 life, and says it came

off a locomotive that was wrecked in = North=20 N.J..

He also gave me an oval brass plaque that says "Pennsylvania" = across the=20 top of the arch and

the numbers "15815" in the flat polished surface in the = middle.

Do you have any way that I can find out = any history=20 about these pieces ?

i.e. the type of engine this was or = what the=20 smaller plaque is, road #, where to get pictures = of it etc.=20 ?

Would appreciate any insite you can = give, people to=20 contact, web-sites, reference, etc. ?

You can contact me by return e-mail, or = if you=20 prefer,

call me anytime @ 814-231-3885 and I = will return=20 your call.

Eric Trenga

State College, PA

HE RESPONDED;

Welcome to the list, Eric!

I don't have your answer, but I = am=20 confident someone on the list will.
Just post away!

Is there anyone out there that = can help me in=20 my quest for information?

------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C423B4.ACE9DEB0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:04:12 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Pickle Plant in Jeanette, Pa From: John Sheets Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:04:12 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Pickle Plant in Jeanette, Pa From: John Sheets From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] BLI PRR E-7 DGLE.....a quick review.... Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 19:49:54 +0000 From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] BLI PRR E-7 DGLE.....a quick review.... Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 19:49:54 +0000 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:28:29 -0400 From: Ken Meyer Subject: Re: [PRR] Junction Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In Baltimore we have Union Junction and B&P Junction. Alex Charyna wrote: > Philly area... > > Holmesburg Junction... > Frankford Junction... though that kind of connected to the PRSL... > > -alex > > > On Apr 15, 2004, at 10:26 AM, Dan Cupper wrote: > >> Greetings to Jerry and the List: >> >> >> Lewistown Junction >> >> >> Dan Cupper >> Harrisburg, Pa. >> >> >> TWRimer@uss.com wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Did the Pennsy ever use the term "Junction" at the point where a >>> branchline >>> met the mainline or secondary line, >>> or was the name used only at points where the PRR connected with >>> another >>> railroad? I'm looking for an >>> example of "Junction" being used where a branchline connected to the >>> another part of the PRR. >>> Thanks, >>> T. Rimer >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - >>> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. >> > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:51:28 -0400 From: Ken Meyer Subject: [PRR] B&P tunnel Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Friends, Does anyone know of information showing the tracks in B&P tunnel? I've seen and early C. B. Chaney sketch and it appears that the center of the ties were removed. I believe a brick trough runs down the center of the track and is used for drainage. Ken Meyer Bel Air, MD Modeling the PRR in Baltimore during the mid-40s ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] B&P tunnel Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 23:31:52 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Ken, It was not that way in the 1960's. There was a third "gantlet" track in the center to clear TOFC traffic from and to Pot Yd. The construction you describe is standard in many places on the NYCity subway. Gregg Mahlkov . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Meyer" To: "PRR Fax" ; "PRR-Talk" Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 10:51 PM Subject: [PRR] B&P tunnel > Friends, > Does anyone know of information showing the tracks in B&P tunnel? > I've seen and early C. B. Chaney sketch and it appears that the center > of the ties were removed. > I believe a brick trough runs down the center of the track and is used > for drainage. > > Ken Meyer > Bel Air, MD > > Modeling the PRR in Baltimore > during the mid-40s > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 23:35:06 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Junction To add a few more Conpitt Jct. Ebensburg Jct Bradley Jct. Rich Orr -------------------------------1082172906 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

To add a few more

Conpitt Jct.

Ebensburg Jct

Bradley Jct.

Rich Orr

-------------------------------1082172906-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ken Meyer Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:51:28 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] B&P tunnel Friends, Does anyone know of information showing the tracks in B&P tunnel? I've seen and early C. B. Chaney sketch and it appears that the center of the ties were removed. I believe a brick trough runs down the center of the track and is used for drainage. Ken Meyer Bel Air, MD Modeling the PRR in Baltimore during the mid-40s ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Pennsy S Models X29 on Tour Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 06:20:19 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, I have taken a table at the Pennsy convention http://www.prrths.com/PRR_UpCome.html to showcase the X29 pilot model, have some of my PRR Builders Photos for sale, and discuss paintwork. Please stop by to see me. If you have a model you would like painted, please bring it so I can give you a quote. Dan and I will also be stopping by the S Spring Spree http://www.cosg.org/2004%20S%20Spree.html the same weekend. I will not have a table there so please look for us probably on Saturday morning. We will also be at the NASG convention in the end of July with a table. http://www.2004nasgconvention.com Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass PRR X29 in S Scale The REA version has been approved for production http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: GFPat420@aol.com Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 07:16:03 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] B&P tunnel I believe the ties are framed or cut to a precise size, and are embeded or at least nested in concrete. The gauntlet was present on one track through the mid 90's anyway. Don't know if it's still there, as I haven't been through the tunnel in the cab for some years, now. G.F.Payne --part1_1d6.1f09257c.2db26bf3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" I believe the ties are framed or cu= t to a precise size, and are embeded or at least nested in concrete. The gau= ntlet was present on one track through the mid 90's anyway. Don't know if it= 's still there, as I haven't been through the tunnel in the cab for some yea= rs, now.

G.F.Payne --part1_1d6.1f09257c.2db26bf3_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mike Brown" Subject: RE: [PRR] B&P tunnel Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 07:18:49 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <020a01c4242c$89793700$2a6a9e0c@gtcom.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The gauntlet track did not and still does not run the entire length of the B&P tunnel. And yes the B&P tunnel had block ties in various locations of the tunnel, I know cause I replaced them in the 70's and 80's... -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Gregg Mahlkov Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 11:32 PM To: Ken Meyer; PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] B&P tunnel Ken, It was not that way in the 1960's. There was a third "gantlet" track in the center to clear TOFC traffic from and to Pot Yd. The construction you describe is standard in many places on the NYCity subway. Gregg Mahlkov . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Meyer" To: "PRR Fax" ; "PRR-Talk" Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 10:51 PM Subject: [PRR] B&P tunnel > Friends, > Does anyone know of information showing the tracks in B&P tunnel? > I've seen and early C. B. Chaney sketch and it appears that the center > of the ties were removed. > I believe a brick trough runs down the center of the track and is used > for drainage. > > Ken Meyer > Bel Air, MD > > Modeling the PRR in Baltimore > during the mid-40s > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mike Brown" Subject: RE: [PRR] Junction Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 07:22:46 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <4080883D.7050109@comcast.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Don't forget Canton Jct. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Ken Meyer Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 9:28 PM To: Alex Charyna Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Junction In Baltimore we have Union Junction and B&P Junction. Alex Charyna wrote: > Philly area... > > Holmesburg Junction... > Frankford Junction... though that kind of connected to the PRSL... > > -alex > > > On Apr 15, 2004, at 10:26 AM, Dan Cupper wrote: > >> Greetings to Jerry and the List: >> >> >> Lewistown Junction >> >> >> Dan Cupper >> Harrisburg, Pa. >> >> >> TWRimer@uss.com wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Did the Pennsy ever use the term "Junction" at the point where a >>> branchline >>> met the mainline or secondary line, >>> or was the name used only at points where the PRR connected with >>> another >>> railroad? I'm looking for an >>> example of "Junction" being used where a branchline connected to the >>> another part of the PRR. >>> Thanks, >>> T. Rimer >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - >>> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. >> > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Godby" Subject: Re: [PRR] Junction Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 08:05:43 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Here are a couple more. Toledo Jct and Vernon Jct, these were on the Toledo Division. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Brown" To: "'Ken Meyer'" ; "'Alex Charyna'" Cc: Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 7:22 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] Junction > Don't forget Canton Jct. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 09:44:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Junction From: Frederick Ripley From: "Harry Fitch" Subject: [PRR] X42 Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 11:12:20 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Return-Path: prrk4s@msn.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Apr 2004 15:12:19.0214 (UTC) FILETIME=[604272E0:01C4248E] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: When did the X42 make it's first appearance? Harry Fitch prrk4s@msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harry Fitch" Subject: [PRR] X42 Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 11:12:20 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Return-Path: prrk4s@msn.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Apr 2004 15:12:19.0214 (UTC) FILETIME=[604272E0:01C4248E] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: When did the X42 make it's first appearance? Harry Fitch prrk4s@msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Godby" Subject: Re: [PRR] Junction Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 12:33:15 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Vernon Jct. was where the PRR crossed the Big 4 west of Shelby, Ohio. There was a tower there, but I have never seen it. The foundation is still there though. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Ripley" To: "Bill Godby" ; Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 10:44 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Junction > > > > > Toledo Jct and Vernon Jct, these were on the Toledo Division. > > > Where was Vernon Jct.? > > Thanks, Fred R. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 13:57:32 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Dayton: United States Air Force Museum and Deeds/Carillon Historical Park In a message dated 4/16/04 11:36:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Convention side trip > From: > Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:37:35 +0000 > > For those of you planning to go to Dayton on the way home or who were > planning to by-pass Dayton by taking I-71 to Columbus there is a non-PRR item of > interest to some in Dayton. Wright Patterson Air Force base on the NE side of > Dayton is the home of the Air Force museum. Planes on display range from > Wirght Brothers era through the SR-71. Well worth a couple of hours or more of > time. Norm Bell > I second Norm's motion. It's a very long one day drive from the east coast to Cincinnati, but if you leave Wednesday morning and stay overnight on I-70 in Ohio, you have lots of good options for Thursday morning. One of them is to go through Dayton and see USAFA. USAFA (United States Air Force Museum) is Ohio's biggest tourist attraction, and is much bigger than the Smithsonian's wonderful Air and Space Museum on the Mall in D.C. I was employed at Wright Field when the museum moved there circa 1969, and it has only gotten better since. To me, the only thing missing is the Air Force blue GE centercab switcher (45/60ton?) that used to work Wright Field -- alas, it's long gone to razor blades. Realistically, diverting to the Museum will cost you three or more hours. Because of the geometry of I-70, I-71, I-675, and I-75, you're not really adding much to your driving time. The problem is, once you get in, you won't want to get out. On the other hand, if you are really a hard core museum fan, when you're through at USAFA, take Ohio 4's expressway to downtown Dayton, go south on I-75, cross the Miami River, and find Deeds (Carillon) Historic Park. In the park, you will find preserved: 1. a genuine PRR elevated gate tower (from several that stood on the Dayton & amp; Western line in Miami City (later consolidated with the city of Dayton). 2. a Barney & Smith wood private car (Barney & Smith was Dayton's premier car builder until the steel car revolution). 3. a station building (B&O?) 4. a steam switcher (NYC, IIRC) 5. the Wright Brothers Cycle Shop and other buildings and items significant to the history of Dayton. By this time, you're probably 35 miles from the hotel on the north edge of Cincinnati. See you in Cincinnati... PS -- Driving tips... 1. if you're going through Columbus on I-70 (to Dayton or to attractions in Columbus), try to avoid the Columbus rush hour. It's not east-coast-class traffic, but you don't want to lose time in it, so you're ahead to go through at night. 2. if you're just heading for Cincinnati, don't go into Columbus at all. Use the I-270 bypass to the south of downtown. Because of the geometry of I-71, you will actually drive less miles that way, and it's less messy. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 13:57:26 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Ownership, control, and operation In a message dated 4/14/04 5:32:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 14 > Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:36:00 -0500 > From: Richard Wallis > Subject: Re: Newbie - Looking for Info on "New Albany Running Track" > > > > Chris Broughton wrote: > > >When did the Pittsburgh, Chicago, Cincinnati, &St. Louis come into > >the Pennsylvania RR fold? > > > It was always "in the fold." The railroad had separate spheres of > operation east and west of Pittsburgh until WWI. When private operation > was returned, the PRR compacted and consolidated its system by leasing > all the previous independently operated parts. The PCC&StL actually > remained alive--and PRR controlled--until the mid-1950s when it was > merged into the Philadelphia, Baltimore &Washington. I highly > recommend you locate a copy of Burgess &Kennedy. A read through will > give you a good overview of the railroad's history from the beginning up > to 1945. > We probably need to make the sticky distinction between ownership, control, and operation of rail lines. The PCC&StL (actually, first the PC&StL, then two PCC&StL companies) was an "ownership or control" company, leasing lines and over time buying up stock in the companies that still owned these lines. This benefited the PRR in two ways: 1. it was progressively less likely that any other company could take these lines away from the Pennsylvania System, and 2. as stock was bought up, the lease payments were more and more retained within the System. At first, the PCC&StL was also an operating company, but as the operating structures of Lines Northwest and Lines Southwest (and finally Lines West) became more like Lines East, the distinction from an operating company became greater. After 1921 or so, all the PRR lines reported directly to the Pennsylvania Railroad in Philadelphia, and the PCC&StL and several other "ownership" companies remained as corporate shells, usually until their 50-year bonds were paid off. Notice that in many cases the leases they held ("control") were actually transferred to PRR. So the "ownership" companies remained alive but really only of interest to Wall Street's bond community. Of course, they stayed "alive" in Moody's, Standard & Poor's, etc., and on property tax records, where the poor unwary railfan researcher can find them and be confused by them. Personally, I always get a good laugh when somebody consults property maps or track charts and solemnly pronounces that some rusty Indiana branch line was "part of the Philadelphia Baltimore & Washington". Legally owned, yes. Controlled, no. Operated, no. That's a little like saying that Louisville is still part of Virginia -- or maybe France. Go figure. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 13:57:32 EDT Subject: [PRR] Dayton: United States Air Force Museum and Deeds/Carillon In a message dated 4/16/04 11:36:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Convention side trip > From: > Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:37:35 +0000 > > For those of you planning to go to Dayton on the way home or who were > planning to by-pass Dayton by taking I-71 to Columbus there is a non-PRR item of > interest to some in Dayton. Wright Patterson Air Force base on the NE side of > Dayton is the home of the Air Force museum. Planes on display range from > Wirght Brothers era through the SR-71. Well worth a couple of hours or more of > time. Norm Bell > I second Norm's motion. It's a very long one day drive from the east coast to Cincinnati, but if you leave Wednesday morning and stay overnight on I-70 in Ohio, you have lots of good options for Thursday morning. One of them is to go through Dayton and see USAFA. USAFA (United States Air Force Museum) is Ohio's biggest tourist attraction, and is much bigger than the Smithsonian's wonderful Air and Space Museum on the Mall in D.C. I was employed at Wright Field when the museum moved there circa 1969, and it has only gotten better since. To me, the only thing missing is the Air Force blue GE centercab switcher (45/60ton?) that used to work Wright Field -- alas, it's long gone to razor blades. Realistically, diverting to the Museum will cost you three or more hours. Because of the geometry of I-70, I-71, I-675, and I-75, you're not really adding much to your driving time. The problem is, once you get in, you won't want to get out. On the other hand, if you are really a hard core museum fan, when you're through at USAFA, take Ohio 4's expressway to downtown Dayton, go south on I-75, cross the Miami River, and find Deeds (Carillon) Historic Park. In the park, you will find preserved: 1. a genuine PRR elevated gate tower (from several that stood on the Dayton & amp; Western line in Miami City (later consolidated with the city of Dayton). 2. a Barney & Smith wood private car (Barney & Smith was Dayton's premier car builder until the steel car revolution). 3. a station building (B&O?) 4. a steam switcher (NYC, IIRC) 5. the Wright Brothers Cycle Shop and other buildings and items significant to the history of Dayton. By this time, you're probably 35 miles from the hotel on the north edge of Cincinnati. See you in Cincinnati... PS -- Driving tips... 1. if you're going through Columbus on I-70 (to Dayton or to attractions in Columbus), try to avoid the Columbus rush hour. It's not east-coast-class traffic, but you don't want to lose time in it, so you're ahead to go through at night. 2. if you're just heading for Cincinnati, don't go into Columbus at all. Use the I-270 bypass to the south of downtown. Because of the geometry of I-71, you will actually drive less miles that way, and it's less messy. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_dd.843553b.2db2ca0c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a messa= ge dated 4/16/04 11:36:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes= :

Subject: Convention side trip From: <ndbprr@att.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:37:35 +0000

For those of you planning to go to Dayton on the way home or who were planni= ng to by-pass Dayton by taking I-71 to Columbus there is a non-PRR item of i= nterest to some in Dayton. Wright Patterson Air Force base on the NE s= ide of Dayton is the home of the Air Force museum. Planes on display r= ange from Wirght Brothers era through the SR-71. Well worth a couple o= f hours or more of time. Norm Bell

I second Norm's motion. It's a very long one day drive from the east c= oast to Cincinnati, but if you leave Wednesday morning and stay overnight on= I-70 in Ohio, you have lots of good options for Thursday morning. One= of them is to go through Dayton and see USAFA.

USAFA (United States Air Force Museum) is Ohio's biggest tourist attraction,= and is much bigger than the Smithsonian's wonderful Air and Space Museum on= the Mall in D.C. I was employed at Wright Field when the museum moved= there circa 1969, and it has only gotten better since. To me, the onl= y thing missing is the Air Force blue GE centercab switcher (45/60ton?) that= used to work Wright Field -- alas, it's long gone to razor blades.

Realistically, diverting to the Museum will cost you three or more hours.&nb= sp; Because of the geometry of I-70, I-71, I-675, and I-75, you're not reall= y adding much to your driving time. The problem is, once you get in, y= ou won't want to get out.

On the other hand, if you are really a hard core museum fan, when you're thr= ough at USAFA, take Ohio 4's expressway to downtown Dayton, go south on I-75= , cross the Miami River, and find Deeds (Carillon) Historic Park. In t= he park, you will find preserved:

1. a genuine PRR elevated gate tower (from several that stood on the Dayton=20= & Western line in Miami City (later consolidated with the city of Da= yton).
2. a Barney & Smith wood private car (Barney & Smith was Dayton's pr= emier car builder until the steel car revolution).
3. a station building (B&O?)
4. a steam switcher (NYC, IIRC)
5. the Wright Brothers Cycle Shop
and other buildings and items significant to the history of Dayton.

By this time, you're probably 35 miles from the hotel on the north edge of C= incinnati. See you in Cincinnati...

PS -- Driving tips...
1. if you're going through Columbus on I-70 (to Dayton or to attractio= ns in Columbus), try to avoid the Columbus rush hour. It's not east-co= ast-class traffic, but you don't want to lose time in it, so you're ahead to= go through at night.
2. if you're just heading for Cincinnati, don't go into Columbus at al= l. Use the I-270 bypass to the south of downtown. Because of the= geometry of I-71, you will actually drive less miles that way, and it's les= s messy.

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_dd.843553b.2db2ca0c_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 13:57:26 EDT Subject: [PRR] Ownership, control, and operation In a message dated 4/14/04 5:32:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 14 > Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:36:00 -0500 > From: Richard Wallis > Subject: Re: Newbie - Looking for Info on "New Albany Running Track" > > > > Chris Broughton wrote: > > >When did the Pittsburgh, Chicago, Cincinnati, &St. Louis come into > >the Pennsylvania RR fold? > > > It was always "in the fold." The railroad had separate spheres of > operation east and west of Pittsburgh until WWI. When private operation > was returned, the PRR compacted and consolidated its system by leasing > all the previous independently operated parts. The PCC&StL actually > remained alive--and PRR controlled--until the mid-1950s when it was > merged into the Philadelphia, Baltimore &Washington. I highly > recommend you locate a copy of Burgess &Kennedy. A read through will > give you a good overview of the railroad's history from the beginning up > to 1945. > We probably need to make the sticky distinction between ownership, control, and operation of rail lines. The PCC&StL (actually, first the PC&StL, then two PCC&StL companies) was an "ownership or control" company, leasing lines and over time buying up stock in the companies that still owned these lines. This benefited the PRR in two ways: 1. it was progressively less likely that any other company could take these lines away from the Pennsylvania System, and 2. as stock was bought up, the lease payments were more and more retained within the System. At first, the PCC&StL was also an operating company, but as the operating structures of Lines Northwest and Lines Southwest (and finally Lines West) became more like Lines East, the distinction from an operating company became greater. After 1921 or so, all the PRR lines reported directly to the Pennsylvania Railroad in Philadelphia, and the PCC&StL and several other "ownership" companies remained as corporate shells, usually until their 50-year bonds were paid off. Notice that in many cases the leases they held ("control") were actually transferred to PRR. So the "ownership" companies remained alive but really only of interest to Wall Street's bond community. Of course, they stayed "alive" in Moody's, Standard & Poor's, etc., and on property tax records, where the poor unwary railfan researcher can find them and be confused by them. Personally, I always get a good laugh when somebody consults property maps or track charts and solemnly pronounces that some rusty Indiana branch line was "part of the Philadelphia Baltimore & Washington". Legally owned, yes. Controlled, no. Operated, no. That's a little like saying that Louisville is still part of Virginia -- or maybe France. Go figure. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_1d5.1efec2bf.2db2ca06_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 4/14/04 5:32:03=20= PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes:

Message: 14
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:36:00 -0500
From: Richard Wallis <rwallis1@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Newbie - Looking for Info on "New Albany Running Track"

Chris Broughton wrote:

>When did the Pittsburgh, Chicago, Cincinnati, &St. Louis come into <= BR> >the Pennsylvania RR fold?
>
It was always "in the fold." The railroad had separate spheres of
operation east and west of Pittsburgh until WWI. When private operatio= n
was returned, the PRR compacted and consolidated its system by leasing
all the previous independently operated parts. The PCC&StL actuall= y
remained alive--and PRR controlled--until the mid-1950s when it was
merged into the Philadelphia, Baltimore &Washington. I highly
recommend you locate a copy of Burgess &Kennedy. A read through wi= ll
give you a good overview of the railroad's history from the beginning up to 1945.

We probably need to make the sticky distinction between ownership, control,=20= and operation of rail lines. The PCC&StL (actually, first the PC&a= mp;StL, then two PCC&StL companies) was an "ownership or control" compan= y, leasing lines and over time buying up stock in the companies that still o= wned these lines. This benefited the PRR in two ways:
1. it was progressively less likely that any other company could take these=20= lines away from the Pennsylvania System, and
2. as stock was bought up, the lease payments were more and more retained wi= thin the System.

At first, the PCC&StL was also an operating company, but as the operatin= g structures of Lines Northwest and Lines Southwest (and finally Lines West)= became more like Lines East, the distinction from an operating company beca= me greater.

After 1921 or so, all the PRR lines reported directly to the Pennsylvania Ra= ilroad in Philadelphia, and the PCC&StL and several other "ownership" co= mpanies remained as corporate shells, usually until their 50-year bonds were= paid off. Notice that in many cases the leases they held ("control")=20= were actually transferred to PRR. So the "ownership" companies remaine= d alive but really only of interest to Wall Street's bond community. O= f course, they stayed "alive" in Moody's, Standard & Poor's, etc., and o= n property tax records, where the poor unwary railfan researcher can find th= em and be confused by them.

Personally, I always get a good laugh when somebody consults property maps o= r track charts and solemnly pronounces that some rusty Indiana branch line w= as "part of the Philadelphia Baltimore & Washington". Legally owne= d, yes. Controlled, no. Operated, no. That's a little like= saying that Louisville is still part of Virginia -- or maybe France. =20= Go figure.

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_1d5.1efec2bf.2db2ca06_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 13:57:26 EDT Subject: [PRR] Ownership, control, and operation In a message dated 4/14/04 5:32:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 14 > Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:36:00 -0500 > From: Richard Wallis > Subject: Re: Newbie - Looking for Info on "New Albany Running Track" > > > > Chris Broughton wrote: > > >When did the Pittsburgh, Chicago, Cincinnati, &St. Louis come into > >the Pennsylvania RR fold? > > > It was always "in the fold." The railroad had separate spheres of > operation east and west of Pittsburgh until WWI. When private operation > was returned, the PRR compacted and consolidated its system by leasing > all the previous independently operated parts. The PCC&StL actually > remained alive--and PRR controlled--until the mid-1950s when it was > merged into the Philadelphia, Baltimore &Washington. I highly > recommend you locate a copy of Burgess &Kennedy. A read through will > give you a good overview of the railroad's history from the beginning up > to 1945. > We probably need to make the sticky distinction between ownership, control, and operation of rail lines. The PCC&StL (actually, first the PC&StL, then two PCC&StL companies) was an "ownership or control" company, leasing lines and over time buying up stock in the companies that still owned these lines. This benefited the PRR in two ways: 1. it was progressively less likely that any other company could take these lines away from the Pennsylvania System, and 2. as stock was bought up, the lease payments were more and more retained within the System. At first, the PCC&StL was also an operating company, but as the operating structures of Lines Northwest and Lines Southwest (and finally Lines West) became more like Lines East, the distinction from an operating company became greater. After 1921 or so, all the PRR lines reported directly to the Pennsylvania Railroad in Philadelphia, and the PCC&StL and several other "ownership" companies remained as corporate shells, usually until their 50-year bonds were paid off. Notice that in many cases the leases they held ("control") were actually transferred to PRR. So the "ownership" companies remained alive but really only of interest to Wall Street's bond community. Of course, they stayed "alive" in Moody's, Standard & Poor's, etc., and on property tax records, where the poor unwary railfan researcher can find them and be confused by them. Personally, I always get a good laugh when somebody consults property maps or track charts and solemnly pronounces that some rusty Indiana branch line was "part of the Philadelphia Baltimore & Washington". Legally owned, yes. Controlled, no. Operated, no. That's a little like saying that Louisville is still part of Virginia -- or maybe France. Go figure. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_1d5.1efec2bf.2db2ca06_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 4/14/04 5:32:03=20= PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes:

Message: 14
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:36:00 -0500
From: Richard Wallis <rwallis1@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Newbie - Looking for Info on "New Albany Running Track"

Chris Broughton wrote:

>When did the Pittsburgh, Chicago, Cincinnati, &St. Louis come into <= BR> >the Pennsylvania RR fold?
>
It was always "in the fold." The railroad had separate spheres of
operation east and west of Pittsburgh until WWI. When private operatio= n
was returned, the PRR compacted and consolidated its system by leasing
all the previous independently operated parts. The PCC&StL actuall= y
remained alive--and PRR controlled--until the mid-1950s when it was
merged into the Philadelphia, Baltimore &Washington. I highly
recommend you locate a copy of Burgess &Kennedy. A read through wi= ll
give you a good overview of the railroad's history from the beginning up to 1945.

We probably need to make the sticky distinction between ownership, control,=20= and operation of rail lines. The PCC&StL (actually, first the PC&a= mp;StL, then two PCC&StL companies) was an "ownership or control" compan= y, leasing lines and over time buying up stock in the companies that still o= wned these lines. This benefited the PRR in two ways:
1. it was progressively less likely that any other company could take these=20= lines away from the Pennsylvania System, and
2. as stock was bought up, the lease payments were more and more retained wi= thin the System.

At first, the PCC&StL was also an operating company, but as the operatin= g structures of Lines Northwest and Lines Southwest (and finally Lines West)= became more like Lines East, the distinction from an operating company beca= me greater.

After 1921 or so, all the PRR lines reported directly to the Pennsylvania Ra= ilroad in Philadelphia, and the PCC&StL and several other "ownership" co= mpanies remained as corporate shells, usually until their 50-year bonds were= paid off. Notice that in many cases the leases they held ("control")=20= were actually transferred to PRR. So the "ownership" companies remaine= d alive but really only of interest to Wall Street's bond community. O= f course, they stayed "alive" in Moody's, Standard & Poor's, etc., and o= n property tax records, where the poor unwary railfan researcher can find th= em and be confused by them.

Personally, I always get a good laugh when somebody consults property maps o= r track charts and solemnly pronounces that some rusty Indiana branch line w= as "part of the Philadelphia Baltimore & Washington". Legally owne= d, yes. Controlled, no. Operated, no. That's a little like= saying that Louisville is still part of Virginia -- or maybe France. =20= Go figure.

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_1d5.1efec2bf.2db2ca06_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bbreynolds@aol.com Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 14:37:03 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Dayton: United States Air Force Museum and Deeds/Carillon Historica... In a message dated 4/17/2004 2:10:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, RickTipton@aol.com writes: > 1. if you're going through Columbus on I-70 (to Dayton or to attractions > in Columbus), try to avoid the Columbus rush hour. It's not east-coast-class > traffic, but you don't want to lose time in it, so you're ahead to go through > at night. > 2. if you're just heading for Cincinnati, don't go into Columbus at all. > Use the I-270 bypass to the south of downtown. Because of the geometry of > I-71, you will actually drive less miles that way, and it's less messy. > I'll agree on Air Force Museum as being an excellent stop. Hop down from Dayton to Cincinnati is not very long. Likewise, the I-270 loop is best way to get around Columbus, unless your destination is downtown. >From thirty years of trips to the Midwest from the Philadelphia area, I find that a stop at the Lenox Inn, in Reynoldsburg, on I-70, just before the I-270 loop, breaks up the trip very well. The Lenox used to be sort of in the woods, but a Walmart got built in its back yard some time ago. It does have two benefits: quick on-and-off of I-70, and a restaurant that serves real breakfasts on linen tablecloths (no more dinner, but there is a Friday's next door, and plenty of fast food in Reynoldsburg (along US 40)). The decor is original 1960s, but spotlessly maintained. Phone (614-861-7800), Fax (614-759-9059), e-mail (lenoxdb@aol.com). I have no connection to the Lenox, other than as a satisfied customer. The Sunoco station next door also has an excellent reputation. Best wishes to all on their jaunts. Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 14:37:03 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Dayton: United States Air Force Museum and In a message dated 4/17/2004 2:10:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, RickTipton@aol.com writes: > 1. if you're going through Columbus on I-70 (to Dayton or to attractions > in Columbus), try to avoid the Columbus rush hour. It's not east-coast-class > traffic, but you don't want to lose time in it, so you're ahead to go through > at night. > 2. if you're just heading for Cincinnati, don't go into Columbus at all. > Use the I-270 bypass to the south of downtown. Because of the geometry of > I-71, you will actually drive less miles that way, and it's less messy. > I'll agree on Air Force Museum as being an excellent stop. Hop down from Dayton to Cincinnati is not very long. Likewise, the I-270 loop is best way to get around Columbus, unless your destination is downtown. >From thirty years of trips to the Midwest from the Philadelphia area, I find that a stop at the Lenox Inn, in Reynoldsburg, on I-70, just before the I-270 loop, breaks up the trip very well. The Lenox used to be sort of in the woods, but a Walmart got built in its back yard some time ago. It does have two benefits: quick on-and-off of I-70, and a restaurant that serves real breakfasts on linen tablecloths (no more dinner, but there is a Friday's next door, and plenty of fast food in Reynoldsburg (along US 40)). The decor is original 1960s, but spotlessly maintained. Phone (614-861-7800), Fax (614-759-9059), e-mail (lenoxdb@aol.com). I have no connection to the Lenox, other than as a satisfied customer. The Sunoco station next door also has an excellent reputation. Best wishes to all on their jaunts. Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA --part1_54.271fe05b.2db2d34f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 4/17/2004 2:10:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20= RickTipton@aol.com writes:

1. if you're going th= rough Columbus on I-70 (to Dayton or to attractions in Columbus), try to avo= id the Columbus rush hour. It's not east-coast-class traffic, but you=20= don't want to lose time in it, so you're ahead to go through at night.
2. if you're just heading for Cincinnati, don't go into Columbus a= t all. Use the I-270 bypass to the south of downtown. Because of= the geometry of I-71, you will actually drive less miles that way, and it's= less messy.

I'll agree on Air Force Museum as being an excellent stop. Hop down from
Dayton to Cincinnati is not very long. Likewise, the I-270 loop is best=20= way
to get around Columbus, unless your destination is downtown.

From thirty years of trips to the Midwest from the Philadelphia area, I=20= find that
a stop at the Lenox Inn, in Reynoldsburg, on I-70, just before the I-270= loop,
breaks up the trip very well. The Lenox used to be sort of in the woods,= but
a Walmart got built in its back yard some time ago. It does have two ben= efits:
quick on-and-off of I-70, and a restaurant that serves real breakfasts o= n linen
tablecloths (no more dinner, but there is a Friday's next door, and plen= ty of
fast food in Reynoldsburg (along US 40)). The decor is original 1960s, b= ut
spotlessly maintained. Phone (614-861-7800), Fax (614-759-9059), e-mail
(lenoxdb@aol.com). I have no connection to the Lenox, other than as a
satisfied customer. The Sunoco station next door also has an excellent
reputation.=20

Best wishes to all on their jaunts.

Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA --part1_54.271fe05b.2db2d34f_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] X42 Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 14:46:54 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Harry Fitch asked: When did the X42 make its first appearance? 1950. We answered this question in response to your post of 6/20/2003. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:37:38 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] B&P tunnel -- GANTLET X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-10,12-76 From: Michael E Allen Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: