From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: [PRR] BLI M1b: My View Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 01:22:56 -0600 A couple of months ago, after hearing someone else's Soundtraxx engine = which I was just finishing, my wife, bless her heart, said, "We ought to = have one with sound." My Momma raised no fools, and I instantly leaped = at this opportunity. Ten minutes later my order was in. My 6704 arrived today, and what follows are my observations. No = additional comments on the paint; the lettering is crisp and will show = thru the weathering. The engine runs extremely well on my Digitrax DCC; = the chuff coodinates well with the speed and power required. I found = that about 30% volume is about right for my 13 x 18 foot room. However, = I found two discrepancies: the bell doesn't work and the only = background noise is either the random blowdown or pop off--I can't tell = which. I am missing the "rushing water"/"steam hiss" and air pump = sounds. I also tested for these sounds on DC--no luck. I will be = talking to BLI on Monday. I also will have to get my 1998 Digitrax = DCS100 upgraded so the higher numbered functions can be accessed. A = test on my 180 deg 30 inch radius curve on a 2% grade reveiled 13 cars = is the limit. That is without lube on the valve gear and rods (they = have to be painted first); all cars were 40 ft weighted to NMRA = recommended practice, and all have Kadee trucks. I will be adding = additional weight behind the motor as Andy did. Also I don't think the = weight in the boiler is lead, but I haven't disassembled the engine. = Replacing that weight with one cast in lead should provide a significant = improvement. Without the vast vistas of a club layout (and here in = Northwest Florida we trade no snow for no basement), I will be happy at = 16 or 17 cars. =20 I ran 6704 around and stopped next to my very much modified Gem M1b for = a 1 to 1 visual comparison. The first thing I noticed was the bell. = Nobody does it right. Precision Scale 3155 is the only correct bell I = have seen on or off a HO model for the H/I/K/L/M classes. Before = weathering, the parting line along the boiler top will have to be = smoothed up. Three fairly noticeable lines are missing, but easily = added: the short steam supply line for the generator out the right side = of the steam dome into the boiler jacket, the continuation of this line = out from under the boiler jacket and across the smokebox to the = generator, and the generator exhaust around to the rear of the stack. = Whether to cast details as part of the boiler or attach them separately = was a tradeoff resulting in pros and cons. Pro - The small pipes and = conduits, such as the air lines controlling the sander valves, look good = cast on; in brass any usable wire is too big and the details would be = over done. Also the brackets that attach some of the piping. Con - the = stoker engine and injector could be made to look better, especially the = stoker motor. I may replace those with brass parts. Really on the plus = side is the small pipe or electrical conduit which runs from the air = pump steam supply on the left side all the way over to the right side = and forward until it goes below the walkway just ahead of the power = reverse. I had missed that line completely when I detailed the Gem. = The only thing the tender needs is a red MV lens in each marker. My PRR modeling philosophy has been that my engines must run very, very = well and "look like the picture". Some engines, like that Gem M1b, or = the PFM or Sunset I1's, take a lot of work; others, like the PFM L1 and = K4, take only a little. The BLI M1b is going to take less. It has a = couple of quality control warts (in my case, in the electronics, = probably), but cosmetically and in basic performance out of the box it = is way ahead of any of the brass engines I cited above. =20 I like it a lot. What's next BLI? Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_021F_01C3E861.EC18DCF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
A couple of months ago, after = hearing someone=20 else's Soundtraxx engine which I was just finishing, my wife, bless = her=20 heart, said, "We ought to have one with sound."  My Momma raised no = fools,=20 and I instantly leaped at this opportunity.  Ten minutes later my = order was=20 in.
 
My 6704 arrived today, and what follows = are my=20 observations.  No additional comments on the paint;  the = lettering is=20 crisp and will show thru the weathering.  The engine runs extremely = well on=20 my Digitrax DCC;  the chuff coodinates well with the speed and = power=20 required.  I found that about 30% volume is about right for my 13 x = 18 foot=20 room.  However, I found two discrepancies:  the bell doesn't = work and=20 the only background noise is either the random blowdown or pop off--I = can't tell=20 which.  I am missing the "rushing water"/"steam hiss" and air pump=20 sounds.  I also tested for these sounds on DC--no luck.  I = will be=20 talking to BLI on Monday.  I also will have to get my 1998 Digitrax = DCS100=20 upgraded so the higher numbered functions can be accessed.  A test = on my=20 180 deg 30 inch radius curve on a 2% grade reveiled 13 cars is the = limit. =20 That is without lube on the valve gear and rods (they have to be painted = first);  all cars were 40 ft weighted to NMRA recommended practice, = and all=20 have Kadee trucks.  I will be adding additional weight behind the = motor as=20 Andy did.  Also I don't think the weight in the boiler is lead, but = I=20 haven't disassembled the engine.  Replacing that weight with one = cast in=20 lead should provide a significant improvement.  Without the vast = vistas of=20 a club layout (and here in Northwest Florida we trade no snow for no = basement),=20 I will be happy at 16 or 17 cars. 
 
I ran 6704 around and stopped next to = my very much=20 modified Gem M1b for a 1 to 1 visual comparison.  The first thing I = noticed=20 was the bell.  Nobody does it right.  Precision Scale 3155 is = the only=20 correct bell I have seen on or off a HO model for the H/I/K/L/M = classes. =20 Before weathering, the parting line along the boiler top will have to be = smoothed up.  Three fairly noticeable lines are missing, but easily = added:  the short steam supply line for the generator out the right = side of=20 the steam dome into the boiler jacket, the continuation of this line out = from=20 under the boiler jacket and across the smokebox to the generator, and = the=20 generator exhaust around to the rear of the stack.  Whether to cast = details=20 as part of the boiler or attach them separately was a tradeoff resulting = in pros=20 and cons.  Pro - The small pipes and conduits, such as the air = lines=20 controlling the sander valves, look good cast on;  in brass any = usable wire=20 is too big and the details would be over done. Also the brackets that = attach=20 some of the piping.  Con - the stoker engine and injector could be = made to=20 look better, especially the stoker motor.  I may replace those with = brass=20 parts.  Really on the plus side is the small pipe or electrical = conduit=20 which runs from the air pump steam supply on the left side all the way = over to=20 the right side and forward until it goes below the walkway just ahead of = the=20 power reverse.  I had missed that line completely when I detailed = the=20 Gem.  The only thing the tender needs is a red MV lens in each=20 marker.
 
My PRR modeling philosophy has been = that my engines=20 must run very, very well and "look like the picture".  Some = engines, like=20 that Gem M1b, or the PFM or Sunset I1's, take a lot = of work; =20 others, like the PFM L1 and K4, take only a little.  The BLI M1b is = going=20 to take less.  It has a couple of quality control warts (in my = case, in the=20 electronics, probably), but cosmetically and in basic performance out of = the box=20 it is way ahead of any of the brass engines I cited above.  =
 
I like it a lot.  What's next=20 BLI?
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_021F_01C3E861.EC18DCF0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 07:23:52 EST Subject: [PRR] Merchandise Service banner When did this banner first appear on the box cars? When were the silver edge stripes deleted from the scheme? Thank you, Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1075638231 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
When did this banner first appear on the box cars?  When were the=20= silver edge stripes deleted from the scheme?
 
Thank you,

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1075638231-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Breon" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI M1b: My View Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 08:51:42 -0500 Stephen Hoxie writes: "However, I found two discrepancies: the bell doesn't work and the only = background noise is either the random blowdown or pop off--I can't tell = which. I am missing the "rushing water"/"steam hiss" and air pump = sounds. I also tested for these sounds on DC--no luck. I will be = talking to BLI on Monday." Hi Steve, One thing that you should try before contacting BLI is a "hard reset" as = directed in the manual. I routinely do this to all BLI locomotives prior = to operating them and have experienced no problems. Remove the tender = shell (remember, there's two screws on the underside of the floor that = need to be removed first) and place the locomotive and tender on the = track with no power (make sure the tender wiring harness is plugged into = the back of the locomotive when doing the reset). Remove the small black = jumper device as directed in the manual and then apply power with the = jumper removed. You will hear three "hoots" of the whistle indicating = that the reset is complete. Note that if you apply full power to perform = this function the locomotive may run away after the hoots so only apply = about 6 volts or so. After hearing the three hoots completely turn off = the track power and replace the jumper to its original location. Your = model should now behave properly for you. Give it a try. A few more notes on the BLI M1a/bs. I've noted that on all of mine, they = arrived with quite a bit of lube on the tender axle wipers which may or = may not affect the integrity of the electrical contact. I cleaned most = of it off. Also, for those of you inclined, as I was, to drill an additional hole = in the drawbar to get the tender closer to the cab (I moved my tender = 130" closer), note that when coupled together in the new position the = excess length of the drawbar rubs on the forward tender truck wiper. Not = sure if this would cause electrical or mechanical problems so I trimmed = off the excess drawbar material along with its original hole just to be = sure. Jerry Breon Birdsboro, PA ------=_NextPart_000_0492_01C3E8A0.9D4EBBA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Stephen Hoxie writes:
"However, I found two = discrepancies:  the bell=20 doesn't work and the only background noise is either the random blowdown = or pop=20 off--I can't tell which.  I am missing the "rushing water"/"steam = hiss" and=20 air pump sounds.  I also tested for these sounds on DC--no = luck.  I=20 will be talking to BLI on Monday."
 
Hi Steve,
 
One thing that you should try before contacting = BLI is a=20 "hard reset" as directed in the manual. I routinely do this to all BLI=20 locomotives prior to operating them and have experienced no problems. = Remove the=20 tender shell (remember, there's two screws on the underside of the floor = that=20 need to be removed first) and place the locomotive and tender on the = track with=20 no power (make sure the tender wiring harness is plugged into the back = of the=20 locomotive when doing the reset). Remove the small black jumper device = as=20 directed in the manual and then apply power with the jumper removed. You = will=20 hear three "hoots" of the whistle indicating that the reset is complete. = Note=20 that if you apply full power to perform this function the locomotive may = run=20 away after the hoots so only apply about 6 volts or so. After hearing = the three=20 hoots completely turn off the track power and replace the jumper to its = original=20 location. Your model should now behave properly for you. Give it a=20 try.
 
A few more notes on the BLI M1a/bs. I've noted = that on all=20 of mine, they arrived with quite a bit of lube on the tender axle wipers = which=20 may or may not affect the integrity of the electrical contact. I cleaned = most of=20 it off.
 
Also, for those of you inclined, as I was, to = drill an=20 additional hole in the drawbar to get the tender closer to the cab (I = moved my=20 tender .130" closer), note that when coupled together in the new = position the=20 excess length of the drawbar rubs on the forward tender truck wiper. Not = sure if=20 this would cause electrical or mechanical problems so I trimmed off the = excess=20 drawbar material along with its original hole just to be = sure.
 
Jerry Breon
Birdsboro, PA
------=_NextPart_000_0492_01C3E8A0.9D4EBBA0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] Merchandise Service banner Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 09:45:39 -0500 Evan Leisey asked: "When did this banner first appear on the box cars?" MS1 (Brady McGuire's designation, not the Pennsy's) first appeared = September 1947 on the 100 Class X40B, 300 Class X41B, and an = indeterminate number of Class X29B boxcars. This may have been applied = on a few Class X26C rebuilds, but this is based on an ORER note denoting = cars equipped for LCL service. Photographic evidence has not been = forthcoming.=20 "When were the silver edge stripes deleted from the scheme?" 1950. Only the Class X29 placed into LCL service received the = simplified scheme (MS2). The Toludine red background to the circle = keystone and "Merchandise Service" letters were eliminated as well. In = May 1954, the final version of the "Merchandise Service" appeared which = replaced the circle keystone with a shadow keystone (MS3). Very few = cars received this scheme - the only cars photographed with this scheme = that I've turned up so far are of PRR 504087 (X29) and PRR 37080 (X40B). Ben Hom=20 ------=_NextPart_000_00A2_01C3E8A8.26C377C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Evan Leisey asked:
"When did this banner first appear on = the box=20 cars?"
 
MS1 (Brady McGuire's designation, not = the=20 Pennsy's) first appeared September 1947 on the 100 Class X40B, 300 Class = X41B,=20 and an indeterminate number of Class X29B boxcars.  This may = have been=20 applied on a few Class X26C rebuilds, but this is based on an ORER note = denoting=20 cars equipped for LCL service.  Photographic evidence has not been=20 forthcoming. 
 
"When were the silver edge stripes = deleted from=20 the scheme?"
 
1950.  Only the Class X29 placed = into LCL=20 service received the simplified scheme (MS2).  The Toludine red = background=20 to the circle keystone and "Merchandise Service" letters were eliminated = as=20 well.   In May 1954, the final version of the "Merchandise=20 Service" appeared which replaced the circle keystone with a shadow = keystone=20 (MS3).  Very few cars received this scheme - the only cars=20 photographed with this scheme that I've turned up so far are of PRR = 504087=20 (X29) and PRR 37080 (X40B).
 
 
Ben Hom 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_00A2_01C3E8A8.26C377C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI M1b: My View Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 08:54:57 -0600 Hi Jerry--I have done the "hard reset" twice, but I will try it again. = When I saw the grease on the axle wipers, I thought it looked like = Aerocar's Gear Lubricant. In any event, I have had no electrical ontact = problems. Thanks for your help; I'll let you know how it goes. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_0247_01C3E8A1.1120D950 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Jerry--I have done the "hard reset" twice, = but I will=20 try it again.  When I saw the grease on the axle wipers, I thought = it=20 looked like Aerocar's Gear Lubricant.  In any event, I have had no=20 electrical ontact problems.
 
Thanks for your help;  I'll let you know = how it=20 goes.
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
------=_NextPart_000_0247_01C3E8A1.1120D950-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 10:48:37 -0500 Subject: [PRR] BLI Decoders (was: BLI M1b: my view) From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 12:20:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR J1a exposed sand pipes or not? MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Lists, With some more help via emails, a more complete list can now be assembled of know J1 J1a locos that had the outside Sand Lines. These are Photograph observed showing they had outside lines, not just in text. We are now up to 15 Locomotives. Roger Keyser's article in the Keystone mentioned at least 11 J1 and 3 J1a's so we are pretty much on although he didn't mention all the numbers. To date, so far we have: J1 #'s 6450, 6451, 6453, 6456, 6457, 6459, 6460, 6461, 6464, 6465, 6471, 6472, 6473 J1a #'s 6475 and 6478 Keep on the look out more and if you spot thru photo proof only of any additional J's let me know and we can add it to the list. If you spot any of the listed numbers, check for date of the photo to see how late these sand lines were still exsposed. I spotted one, forget which number now, that still had them exsposed as of 1951. Need to spot some very late photos of the above numbers as well to see if some, if any retained the outside lines til scrapping .....Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 14:26:39 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Loco List? From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: > Where can I find info on which locomotives and rolling stock were in use > in > 1940 on the middle division? > Thanks, > George Rudy > New Bloomfield, Pa. George, Lets split that up... Rolling stock...unless you mean MOW assigned equipment, there was no assignment of equipment to specific divisons, adn of course one wouold expect most of it to roam, both on and off of the railroad. For a listing of car classes around that period see: httP://vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRR carlcasses.html Locos...you need Form 229, Assignment of Locomotives. There is one from 11/1/44 at: http://www.wsbcos.com/mp229/mp229.htm Eric Hirmanski's book Black Gold - Black Diamonds, has a table of motive powe assiognments asa of Sept 1, 1945. However, this table does not allow you to find individual locomotive numbers. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: "George Rudy" , prr-talk@dsop.com From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] Loco List? Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:40:58 -0500 To: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Feb 1, 2004, at 3:26 PM, smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu wrote: > Rolling stock...unless you mean MOW assigned equipment, there was no > assignment of equipment to specific divisons, adn of course one wouold > expect most of it to roam, both on and off of the railroad. For a > listing > of car classes around that period see: > httP://vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRR carlcasses.html Another good tool to use would be to find a copy of the ORER...Official Railway Equipment Register. These show up on eBay fairly regularly. Plus Westerfield sells them on CD-ROM at very reasonable prices. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 15:59:43 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: [PRR] sqaured off position light signals X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: All: I saw oregon rail supply just started offering "squared off" lower position light signals (HO scale). Where/when did the PRR use these? A picture can be found 1/2 way down the page on Oregon Rail Supply site at: http://www.oregonrail.com/newsignal.html Note: they are also offering new PRR signal bridges. Thanks, Jeff Warner > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 16:07:22 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: [PRR] For sale (HO scale) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hello all: I have a list of locomotives and a few cars in HO scale available. They are Athearn diesels and Mantua steam engines in PRR and WM. Several PRR passenger cars are available. Also, some DCC decoders are available. Contact me off-list at jeff@pennsyrr.com if interested. Thanks, Jeff Warner ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-Talk LIST From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] sqaured off position light signals Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 16:31:18 -0500 To: jeff@pennsyrr.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Feb 1, 2004, at 3:59 PM, Jeff Warner wrote: > All: > > I saw oregon rail supply just started offering "squared off" lower > position light signals (HO scale). > Where/when did the PRR use these? These were the lower of the two signal heads on interlocking signals. Non-interlocking signals only had one signal head and it was the regular round version. > > A picture can be found 1/2 way down the page on Oregon Rail Supply > site at: > > http://www.oregonrail.com/newsignal.html > > Note: they are also offering new PRR signal bridges. Yes, one of many new offerings. The Oregon Rail Supply bridge is the "Lines West" style..used west of Pittsburgh, plus a few locations east of Pittsburgh, but west of Altoona, notably MG just west of the Horseshoe Curve. I think -- but could be wrong -- those are the easternmost example. Alkem Scale Models is doing the standard "Lines East" version that was found in eastern, non-electrified territory. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] weathering materials Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 16:33:43 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, Does anyone know what happened to Joe Polchlopek of http://www.joesmodeltrains.com ? He marketed a wonderful "Joes Gel" that you could remove just the lettering from a painted car. He also offered a few weathering chalks. I used to see the listings on Ebay all the time, but he has not listed anything in about 9 months. I am hoping to buy more of his products. Please reply to billlane@comcast.net Thanks, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 17:16:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR J1a exposed sand pipes or not? MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, What a day, nothing to do til the BIG game so I spent the last 4 hours looking at all my books, my Keystones and all my photos to gain more info on these J1/J1a with exposed/nonexposed sandlines. You can add another J1 which at one time had the exposed lines, #6463. I found that one in my album I overlooked earlier. I also started a second list. The following locos at one time had the exposed then later received to inside sand lines as seen proven in Photos. J1's 6451, 6453, 6456, 6457, 6460, 6461, 6464, 6471, 6472, 6473 and J1a 6478. That is 11 of 16 known so far. Still need to locate late era photos of 6450, 6459, 6463, 6465 and 6475 to see if they also received the inside lines. Keep an eye out please. Thanks again, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] sqaured off position light signals Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 17:59:22 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Re: Jerry sez - "Non-interlocking signals only had one signal head and it was the regular round version." That's not entirely correct, many distant signals (which technically were not interlocked) had two heads. In ABS territory it typically take two heads on the distant signal to behind a two headed home signal And in three block, four aspect ABS territory all the automatics had two heads. Now maybe they didn't all have backgrounds - BUT they had two heads. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] At 8:40 pm, on Feburary 1, 2004...... Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 22:18:46 -0500 ....a golden spike (lets just pretend its golden) was driven into = number 1 track just west of Wanatah, Indiana. This signified the = completion of my double track mainline from Fort Wayne to Valparaiso. = While I started on this layout in 1999, a basement sized layout has be a = dream of mine for 30 years.=20 At 8:48pm, a single Bachmann K-4 departed Plymouth heading west. It = completed the 3 scale-mile tour of the mainline at 8:52pm. The trip was = great to see.=20 Now, I need to finish installing Styrofoam panels adjacent to the track = bench work to catch any derailed or errant engines and cars. After that, = I will install some decoders on some Atlas SD-35's and P2K E-8's. Then = after that, another power district. Is there a football game on tonight? Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana (but my mind is in Plymouth) ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C3E911.5C1B1360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
.....a golden spike (lets just pretend its golden) was driven=20 into number 1 track just west of Wanatah, Indiana. This signified = the=20 completion of my double track mainline from Fort Wayne to Valparaiso. = While I=20 started on this layout in 1999, a basement sized layout has be a dream = of mine=20 for 30 years. 
 
At 8:48pm, a single Bachmann K-4 departed Plymouth heading west. It = completed the 3 scale-mile tour of the mainline at 8:52pm. The trip was = great to=20 see.
 
Now, I need to finish installing Styrofoam panels adjacent to the = track=20 bench work to catch any derailed or errant engines and cars. After that, = I will=20 install some decoders on some Atlas  SD-35's and P2K = E-8's. Then=20 after that, another power district.
 
Is there a football game on tonight?
 
 
Ted Andrews
Carmel, Indiana (but my mind is in Plymouth)
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C3E911.5C1B1360-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 22:31:27 -0500 From: Steve Sharpe Subject: Re: [PRR] At 8:40 pm, on Feburary 1, 2004...... X-Rcpt-To: Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: At 10:18 PM -0500 2/1/04, Ted Andrews wrote: >.....a golden spike (lets just pretend its golden) was driven >into number 1 track just west of Wanatah, Indiana. This signified >the completion of my double track mainline from Fort Wayne to >Valparaiso. While I started on this layout in 1999, a basement sized >layout has be a dream of mine for 30 years. > >At 8:48pm, a single Bachmann K-4 departed Plymouth heading west. It >completed the 3 scale-mile tour of the mainline at 8:52pm. The trip >was great to see. > >Now, I need to finish installing Styrofoam panels adjacent to the >track bench work to catch any derailed or errant engines and cars. >After that, I will install some decoders on some Atlas SD-35's and >P2K E-8's. Then after that, another power district. Congratulations! Two weeks ago operations began on the freelanced Ellsworth Division of the PRR when an L2 brought in the first loads to fill the coaling tower in the facility of my as yet unnamed city. I began my layout in 1995. I am still laying track and wiring. I hope to start on the scenery in a few months. -- Steve sbs@milestone-media.com • ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] Bridgeing the Gap In HO (For Sale) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 23:02:25 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gentelmen, I am pleased to announce the recent release of an HO double-track stone arch viaduct by Custom Model Railroads. It is made out of laser-cut acrylic and is modular in deisgn. While not a sepcific PRR prototype is has been observed by clients and passersby at a past trainshow on its similarity to Rockville's stone arch's as well as the stone arch overpasses of the Northern Central between Baltimore and York. CMR is selling these easy to build kits for $75.00 plus s&h. For an additional $35.00 you may purchase the arch add-on kit which if fully modular with the base kit to make your viaduct as long as you please. The viaduct can be viewed at: http://www.cmrtrain.com/viaduct.html To view the rest of our product line you may visit the following: http://www.cmrtrain.com/kits.html One of our past kits is the PRR's Union Station in Baltimore, personally its our easiest kit to build. Thank you for your time gentelmen. -John Frantz Designer and Modeler Custom Model Railroads Baltimore, MD Visit us online at www.cmrtrain.com ! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 02:33:26 -0500 From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI M1b: My View Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: > Stephen Hoxie writes: > "However, I found two discrepancies: the bell doesn't work and the only = > background noise is either the random blowdown or pop off--I can't tell = > which. I am missing the "rushing water"/"steam hiss" and air pump = > sounds. I also tested for these sounds on DC--no luck. I will be = > talking to BLI on Monday." In straight DC with my M1a I also had no bell sound at first power up, although all other sounds in DC, incl. simmering/stationary sounds (hiss/intermittent air compressor/pop off) were there. I "cursored" through to the Reset function with my Side Kick and got the bell sound back. So, an electronic reset might work in DCC, as well, instead of having to get the magnivisor out and crawl into the guts. These BLI/Quantum engines are a puzzle, aren't they?! Nevertheless, I'll take them over InsaniBrass/Franken-Dremel/Soundtraxx add-on any day. Vagel (Gimme-a-BLI-H-Class) Keller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: [PRR] Message to Dan Cupper Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 09:17:44 -0500 Dan: Please contact me off list. E-mails to your att address always bounce. Bill Volkmer ------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C3E96D.6B11EDB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
Dan:
 
Please = contact me=20 off list.  E-mails to your att address always = bounce.
 
Bill=20 Volkmer
------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C3E96D.6B11EDB0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 06:24:30 -0800 From: Peter Weiglin Subject: [PRR] Walther's is wrong Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In a recent post, we read -- That would be because pre-war and post war "tuscan" were different . If you look at Walther's R50B, you'll see the same thing, = = = "Walther's." How many times have we ween it spelled that way? But it's wrong. The family name is "Walthers." No apostrophe. It's not "Walther." So, if we're talking about an item belonging to Walthers, it's " Walthers' " - Not "Walther's." Or it could be the "Walthers Budd 10-6" - a product description that is not a possessive. But NEVER "Walther's." Peter Weiglin San Mateo CA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Lettering Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 09:30:42 -0500 From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Lettering From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:04:14 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] weathering materials Bill, Here is the info. from the last order from him: Joe's Model Trains 820 East 31 St. Erie, Pa. 16504 Ph: 814/434-8667 joepol@stargate.net Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1075734254 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Bill,
 
  Here is the info. from the last order from him:
 
Joe's Model Trains
820 East 31 St.
Erie, Pa.  16504
 
Ph: 814/434-8667
 
 

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1075734254-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] At 8:40 pm, on February 1, 2004...... Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:10:42 -0500
Ted,
 
Congrats on the golden = spike.  Years=20 ago there was a classified in the back of MR from a Jeweler in = Rochester NY who=20 advertised an actual HO scale golden spike.  It was not that=20 expensive.  Never got one with the idea of keeping it until I = finished my=20 layout.  Good luck with the rest of the layout.
 
Chris = Chany
------_=_NextPart_001_01C3E99E.B9EB0E40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:16:01 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] At 8:40 pm, on February 1, 2004...... From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Great news, Ted! Maybe you can shoot some new photos for me for your layout web site on Keystone Crossings? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 09:32:55 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Walther's is wrong From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Monday, February 2, 2004, at 08:24 AM, Peter Weiglin wrote: >> In a recent post, we read -- >> >> That would be because pre-war and post war "tuscan" were different >> . If >> you look at Walther's R50B, you'll see the same thing, > > = = = > > "Walther's." > > How many times have we ween it spelled that way? ^^^^^ > But it's wrong. The family name is "Walthers." No apostrophe. It's > not "Walther." > So, if we're talking about an item belonging to Walthers, it's " > Walthers' " - Not "Walther's." > Or it could be the "Walthers Budd 10-6" - a product description that > is not a possessive. > But NEVER "Walther's." Hi Peter, Well, that's why my published stuff all goes through an editor, eh? I consider it lucky that it wasn't Wlathers, which for some reason is the way it always seems to come out of my keyboard BTW, nice usage of "ween"...at first I thought it was a typo, but upon further consideration, I see that the middle english word ween (to fancy or imagine) fits ;^) I'll have to see if I can work it into casual conversation today... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 13:50:17 -0500 Subject: [PRR] TANGENT: Software Updates Affecting ListServ From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Please do not reply on list. Beginning this evening the mail server at DSOP.COM will begin having some updated filters and new filters installed in order to further combat SPAM. SPAM has not been a problem on the lists, as mail destined for the lists are pre-screened by the mail server. A whopping 90% of the mail received by the server -- about 7,000 messages per week -- is filtered and declared SPAM! With the new filters in place, instead of discarding all of this SPAM, the server will begin blocking it and source domains so that it doesn't use mail server resources. You, as subscribers, should not see anything differently. However, I am alerting you so that if something becomes amiss, you might know to contact me in case I do not know that I "broke" something! If you cannot reach me via e-mail, please call Desktop Solutions at 717-938-4270 to tip me off. These filters will be updated incrementally and a log is maintained at http://www.dsop.com/sitestats/site_log.ws4d Short descriptions of what each of these filters does is available at http://lists.dsop.com/techsupport.ws4d Thank you. ---------------------------------------- Listmaster listmaster@dsop.com Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] PRR tender trade Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 15:04:22 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Guys, Because of a recent trade, I am 1 riveted 12 wheel tender shorter then I was before the trade. Does anyone have a preferably unpainted S Scale Omnicon 12 wheel riveted tender you want to trade even up for an Omnicon 16 wheel smooth side tender? There was a time when you could not find extra 16 wheel tenders anywhere. Here is your chance to swap one out! The 16 wheel tender you would be getting is unpainted and mint. It is compatible with all Omnicon PRR steam engines. This offer is for an even trade only. Thanks, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 15:07:05 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR tender trade From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Monday, February 2, 2004, at 02:04 PM, Bill Lane wrote: > Hi Guys, > > Because of a recent trade, I am 1 riveted 12 wheel tender shorter then > I was > before the trade. Does anyone have a preferably unpainted S Scale > Omnicon 12 > wheel riveted tender you want to trade even up for an Omnicon 16 wheel > smooth side tender? There was a time when you could not find extra 16 > wheel > tenders anywhere. Here is your chance to swap one out! The 16 wheel > tender > you would be getting is unpainted and mint. It is compatible with all > Omnicon PRR steam engines. Bill, For those of us who are learning about what what is available in other scales, which "12 wheel" and "16 wheel" tenders are these (since PRR had a number of classes with each style truck)? Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 16:10:19 EST Subject: [PRR] Coal through Columbus In a message dated 1/29/04 7:27:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 19:02:27 +0000 > From: "Steve Hipes" > Subject: RE: N&W coal on T&OC > > Even though this is a Pennsy list, the whole N&W coal interchange scenario > through Columbus was very interesting and diverse. PRR certainly got the > lion's share of this interchange until the 1964 N&W-NKP merger and Sandusky > Branch sale. Don't forget that a good amount of N&W coal went west on the > Panhandle to Chicago. Most of that business was lost to the "expanded" N&W > but some interchange coal to northern Indiana steel mills continued through > the PC and CR years via the T&OC. Some N&W coal also went east on the > Panhandle to Mingo Junction or Pittsburgh using the symbol COA. The last > photograph of a train I shot on the Panhandle prior to the removal of > through traffic was of a COA extra with N&W coal at Lake Erie crossing in > Newark in early December 1981. > > As an aside and compeltely non-related, the Conrail UBH coal trains to Burns > > Harbor/Bethlehem Steel off the N&W were interchanged at Bannon into the > 80's, then the interchange point was moved to Toledo in the 90's. I don't > know if NS eventually hauled this coal all the way to Indiana and > interchanged it with IHB or if they continued to hand off those trains to CR > > in Toledo until May 31, 1999. > > Steve Hipes > Columbus, Ohio > Thanks for the updates on Columbus coal traffic. Re the Panhandle's Columbus to Chicago line, this has to be one of the most underappreciated parts of the PRR system. Circa 1900, the line from Columbus to Logansport was cut and filled and straightened and double tracked to form a second great PRR artery leading into Chicago. I lack company correspondence on this, but it's obvious that this was done to handle the volume of traffic in general, and especially coal traffic via Columbus. It also provided some relief for Cincinnati coal and freight that otherwise would have had to stagger up the MBS single track from Richmond to Anoka (near Logansport), leaving that line open for the pasenger fleet. Almost unknown except to the locals, this line (part of the Columbus and Logansport Divisions in 1941) had the same huge earthworks and stone arch bridges as the Fort Wayne, or for that matter, the Middle Division. Strange to realize that, had the Pennsy not grabbed the Pittsburgh Fort Wayne & Chicago in 1865? when they did, the main line of the Pennsylvania Railroad might have run Pittsburgh-Columbus-Bradford-Logansport-Chicago. If that had happened, it's possible the Norfolk Southern would be pounding the right-of-way today. Instead, it's just a big scar in the landscape, devoid of rail, ties, or ballast. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_41.398c79e6.2d5016bb_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 1/29/04 7:27:00=20= AM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes:


Message: 6
   Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 19:02:27 +0000
   From: "Steve Hipes" <sthipes@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: N&W coal on T&OC

Even though this is a Pennsy list, the whole N&W coal interchange scenar= io
through Columbus was very interesting and diverse.  PRR certainly got t= he
lion's share of this interchange until the 1964 N&W-NKP merger and Sandu= sky
Branch sale.  Don't forget that a good amount of N&W coal went west= on the
Panhandle to Chicago.  Most of that business was lost to the "expanded"= N&W
but some interchange coal to northern Indiana steel mills continued through=20=
the PC and CR years via the T&OC.  Some N&W coal also went east= on the
Panhandle to Mingo Junction or Pittsburgh using the symbol COA.  The la= st
photograph of a train I shot on the Panhandle prior to the removal of
through traffic was of a COA extra with N&W coal at Lake Erie crossing i= n
Newark in early December 1981.

As an aside and compeltely non-related, the Conrail UBH coal trains to Burns=
Harbor/Bethlehem Steel off the N&W were interchanged at Bannon into the=20=
80's, then the interchange point was moved to Toledo in the 90's.  I do= n't
know if NS eventually hauled this coal all the way to Indiana and
interchanged it with IHB or if they continued to hand off those trains to CR=
in Toledo until May 31, 1999.

Steve Hipes
Columbus, Ohio


Thanks for the updates on Columbus coal traffic.  Re the Panhandle's Co= lumbus to Chicago line, this has to be one of the most underappreciated part= s of the PRR system.  Circa 1900, the line from Columbus to Logansport=20= was cut and filled and straightened and double tracked to form a second grea= t PRR artery leading into Chicago.  I lack company correspondence on th= is, but it's obvious that this was done to handle the volume of traffic in g= eneral, and especially coal traffic via Columbus.  It also provided som= e relief for Cincinnati coal and freight that otherwise would have had to st= agger up the MBS single track from Richmond to Anoka (near Logansport), leav= ing that line open for the pasenger fleet.

Almost unknown except to the locals, this line (part of the Columbus and Log= ansport Divisions in 1941) had the same huge earthworks and stone arch bridg= es as the Fort Wayne, or for that matter, the Middle Division.  Strange= to realize that, had the Pennsy not grabbed the Pittsburgh Fort Wayne &= Chicago in 1865? when they did, the main line of the Pennsylvania Railroad=20= might have run Pittsburgh-Columbus-Bradford-Logansport-Chicago.  If tha= t had happened, it's possible the Norfolk Southern would be pounding the rig= ht-of-way today.  Instead, it's just a big scar in the landscape, devoi= d of rail, ties, or ballast.

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_41.398c79e6.2d5016bb_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Mt. Carmel ore run Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 22:14:01 +0000 From: "Bill Lane" Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 23:19:47 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR convention Hi All, I am already looking forward to the PRR convention. It happens whenever we have nasty winter weather as it has been here for the past month. Most of my friends are flying in a small private plane, or as I call it, a "Pinto with wings." I refuse to crash in a plane with less then 100 people! SO, as a cost saving measure, I may be driving. I was wondering if there is anyone who would split the gas expenses riding with me from the Phila./South Jersey area. I am not sure what day I will be leaving, but I will be driving straight though. I may have some leeway on the return trip, so a small detour could be made for something interesting on the way home. Thanks, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <943FB552-5692-11D8-9B23-000A9570A806@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk , Conrail-talk , Reading-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] TANGENT: List back up Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 16:47:35 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Sorry about that break in programming... we had a "wardrobe malfunction" that... ...uh, sorry, been told that excuse has already been used this week! Server is playing catchup. Please give it about two hours to do its thing. If you don't see your post(s) by then, please resend. Anything sent since 5 pm yesterday is affected. Thanks. ---------------------------------------- Listmaster listmaster@dsop.com Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "L. Heintz" Subject: [PRR] Renovo 66 - 67 Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 12:39:45 -0500 Looking at a photocopy of an RNE article,by Bill Volkmer,about the Alcos = of Renovo. Featured are the RS3' s (30-some) that were assigned there. = The 8445 (PC-5569,LV-211)(hammerhead) is in several shots in both = numbers in old & new paint. If Bill's dating is correct these pics show = 8445 with antenna in June, 1966; in fresh paint w/small keystones and no = antenna in Jan,1967; and in very faded paint, now 5569, on Sept.1,1967. Were all Renovo locos altered at this time ??=20 Was this the time period of removal of the antenna's on all diesels?? =20 Lynn ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3EA52.CDF4DBA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Looking at a photocopy of an RNE = article,by=20 Bill Volkmer,about the Alcos of Renovo. Featured are the RS3' s = (30-some) that=20 were assigned there. The 8445 (PC-5569,LV-211)(hammerhead) is in=20 several shots in both numbers in old & new paint. If Bill's = dating is=20 correct these pics show 8445 with antenna in June, 1966; in fresh paint = w/small=20 keystones and no antenna in Jan,1967; and in very faded paint, now 5569, = on=20 Sept.1,1967.
 
Were all Renovo locos altered at this = time=20 ?? 
 
Was this the time period of removal of = the=20 antenna's on all diesels?? 
 
Lynn
------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3EA52.CDF4DBA0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 13:01:26 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] TANGENT: Software Updates Affecting ListServ Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: SO this means we can't talk about enhancing anything, dropping the rates or eBay...all of which should trigger a SPAM filter? I hope it works for you, Jim McDaniel, calling now for lowest rates in Delmarva ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 18:53:45 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Mt. Carmel ore run I have no factually data other than the dialog off of a video that said the train was handed off to the Lehigh Valley in exchange for an empty ore train. >From all of my experiences with railroad videos, I would not take this info. to heart, but it does seem logical as the train was traveling to Bethelehem Steel in Bethlehem, Pa.. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1075766025 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
I have no factually data other than the dialog off of a video that said= the train was handed off to the Lehigh Valley in exchange for an empty ore=20= train.  From all of my experiences with railroad videos, I would not ta= ke this info. to heart, but it does seem logical as the train was traveling=20= to Bethelehem Steel in Bethlehem, Pa..

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1075766025-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 23:02:47 -0500 From: Steve Sharpe Subject: [PRR] BLI M1b followup Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: When I got home from work tonight there was a UPS box in my door from Broadway Limited Imports. Inside was an entire trailing truck wheel assembly, along with a handwritten note of apology for the inconvenience. To say that I am impressed with the service is an understatement. Now, I have to start saving for a J1!! -- Steve sbs@milestone-media.com • ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] PRR convention Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 23:19:47 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, I am already looking forward to the PRR convention. It happens whenever we have nasty winter weather as it has been here for the past month. Most of my friends are flying in a small private plane, or as I call it, a "Pinto with wings." I refuse to crash in a plane with less then 100 people! SO, as a cost saving measure, I may be driving. I was wondering if there is anyone who would split the gas expenses riding with me from the Phila./South Jersey area. I am not sure what day I will be leaving, but I will be driving straight though. I may have some leeway on the return trip, so a small detour could be made for something interesting on the way home. Thanks, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred in Vt." Subject: [PRR] Troop sleepers Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 21:58:13 -0500 List, Were the pullman troop sleeper/kitchen cars still used in 1953 for = troop movements in the "as built" configuration? Got to wondering if = they may have been used with PUC50R/PUC53R converted heavywieght = sleepers in the same time period, Pittsburg and east. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C3E9D7.A79D2500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
List,
      Were the = pullman=20 troop sleeper/kitchen cars still used in 1953 for troop movements in the = "as=20 built" configuration? Got to wondering if they may have been used with=20 PUC50R/PUC53R converted heavywieght sleepers in the same time period, = Pittsburg=20 and east.
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C3E9D7.A79D2500-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 14:32:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] M1b bummer MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, Anyone turn their M1a/b's into something that looks like something other than a fresh out of the shop Loco yet? I ran into a weathering problem when I went to airbrush the grime and etc on the drivers and rods. With the mechanism running I sprayed my colors on to the turning drivers and moving rods. After I had what I wanted I noticed a bright shiny spot where the main crankpin and crank turn. Seems there is no space between the surfaces of the Main Rod and Crank to keep the surfaces from rubbing. The result is a circular scrape on the surface. Paint will never have a chance to remain. Now it looks like I will have to see if I can get a tiny thin washer in the there. Probably not easy and most likely have to grind some surfaces thinner before the washer get fit in. I can leave as is but it looks stupid! So, I need to look into this.......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred in Vt." Subject: [PRR] pullman troop cars Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 00:25:41 -0500 When in doubt, ask>> =20 Were any pullman troop sleepers/kitchens, in thier original = configuration still in use in 1953? Maybe as supplement to the PUC50R & = PUC53R converted heavy weight sleepers? The Keystone mentioned that PUC = units did run out of Pittsburgh to the east, so why not the troop cars? If not, would it be correct to think that they had all been put into = express/baggage service, or converted to MW cars? The Milwaukee supplier has advertised the forthcomming release of troop = cars, but the budget needs to know how & where they can be used in the = stated time frame. Looks like the kitchen just begs to be kitbashed into = a NH express box. Ideas-------suggestions-------????? Side note: NOAA is forcasting heavy snow for friday, and lingering snow = showers for saturday. If you plan to attend the Springfield, Ma. show, = leave early, or bring lots of coffee with you! This weeks RUMOR, = Branchline pullmans!?!?? ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C3E9EC.41688B70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
When in doubt, ask>>
          &nbs= p;=20
Were any pullman troop = sleepers/kitchens, in thier=20 original configuration still in use in 1953? Maybe as supplement to the = PUC50R=20 & PUC53R converted heavy weight sleepers? The Keystone mentioned = that PUC=20 units did run out of Pittsburgh to the east, so why not the troop=20 cars?
 
If not, would it be correct to think = that they had=20 all been put into express/baggage service, or converted to MW = cars?
The Milwaukee supplier has advertised = the=20 forthcomming release of troop cars, but the budget needs to know how = & where=20 they can be used in the stated time frame. Looks like the kitchen just = begs to=20 be kitbashed into a NH express box. =20 Ideas-------suggestions-------?????
 
Side note: NOAA is forcasting heavy = snow for=20 friday, and lingering snow showers for saturday. If you plan to attend = the=20 Springfield, Ma. show, leave early, or bring lots of coffee with you! = This weeks=20 RUMOR, Branchline pullmans!?!??
------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C3E9EC.41688B70-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] Mt. Carmel ore run Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 00:14:02 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Norm-- Here are a couple of inputs. In Sweetland's Pennsylvania Railroad Color Pictorial Vol. 3, p. 88, there is a photo of 4249 retuning to Norry with mostly empties in 1956. Above it is a photo of the other three engines from the same eastbound returning light. A few months ago I read a discussion on this topic, but I can't remember which list it was on. Someone thought that there was a four way routing of hoppers, and I think this is the way it went: --Erie to Mt. Carmel via Northumberland, then on to Bethlehem Steel with iron ore; --Bethelem to Philly, empty --Philly to Pittsburgh loaded with coal or ore --Pittsburg to Erie, empty Obviously, it didn't happen that way all the time, but it seems reasonable. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <7540B409-5681-11D8-8889-000A95A7412A@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-Talk LIST From: David Wartell Subject: [PRR] PRR Coal Houses circa 1900 Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 14:45:02 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.612) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, As I am getting closer to having my layout in running condition, I will be having some questions for the list. I am modelling the Newtown Square branch of the PRR around 1900 when it was known as the Philadelphia and Delaware County Railroad. As I go over the CT 1000's I have access to, I notice that there entries for 2 coal houses on the branch. One at mile post 8.9 (Llanarch) and one at milepost 15.3 (Newtown Square). I am assuming these are there to refuel the engines if needed. Does any one have a description, picture or drawing of a turn of the century coal house they are willing to share? Dave Wartell djwartel@comcast.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 15:01:03 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi all, A visitor to my website sent me this photo of Iowa Traction Railroad Co.'s plow #30 asking if it was an F22. It sure looks like one to me! Was this a PRR F22? Is so does anyone know any more about it? Like what it's PRR # was etc... Any info would be appreciated! Oops.. almost forgot to add the link to the photo... it's at: http://prr.railfan.net/photos/submitted/IATR30_JohnRichards.jpg Thanks, Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Mt. Carmel ore run Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 08:01:35 -0500 No most of the empties were sent to Philadelphia via LV/RDG and PRR and then loaded with ore in Phila bound for Pittsburgh. Others were loaded with anthracite and shipped east and west from the Hazleton and Pottsville area. The helpers returned to Norry lite. -----Original Message----- From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net] Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 5:14 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Mt. Carmel ore run All the pictures I have seen talk about getting loads uphill. Did the empties return the same route and if so how many engines did that take? Did the helpers run back light? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C3EA2B.F252ECC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
No=20 most of the empties were sent to Philadelphia via LV/RDG and PRR and=20 then loaded with ore in Phila bound for Pittsburgh. Others were = loaded with=20 anthracite and shipped east and west from the Hazleton and Pottsville=20 area.  The helpers returned to Norry lite.
-----Original Message-----
From: = ndbprr@att.net=20 [mailto:ndbprr@att.net]
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 = 5:14=20 PM
To: PRR-Talk
Subject: [PRR] Mt. Carmel ore=20 run

All the pictures I have seen talk about getting = loads=20 uphill.  Did the
empties return the same route and if so how = many=20 engines did that take?  Did
the helpers run back=20 = light?

-----------------------------------------------------------= ------------
For=20 assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

<= /P>

------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C3EA2B.F252ECC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RBurg74133@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:10:36 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] TANGENT: List back up Where is the PRR content? We have 10,000 comedians out of work and Jerry is trying to break into the business. Ray Burghart SPF -------------------------------1075849836 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Where is the PRR content?
 
We have 10,000 comedians out of work and Jerry is trying to break into=20= the=20 business.
 
Ray Burghart SPF
 
 
 -------------------------------1075849836-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] Mt. Carmel ore run Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 08:47:15 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] Mt. Carmel ore run Thread-Index: AcPp3rng6qXHeBMGRfucSKZadntDbAAhabpQ From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: , "PRR-Talk" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Feb 2004 14:47:17.0782 (UTC) FILETIME=[9EC49B60:01C3EA64] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The helpers ran back light, but the hoppers followed a circular path, = picking up a new load at one of the ocean ports. -----Original Message----- From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net] Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 4:14 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Mt. Carmel ore run All the pictures I have seen talk about getting loads uphill. Did the=20 empties return the same route and if so how many engines did that take? = Did=20 the helpers run back light? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Trust Plates, Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 17:19:37 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] PRR Trust Plates, Thread-Index: AcPnrOC9VmmXDZmMSDGZxCSN6SjlPwC/y7fQ From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: , Cc: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Feb 2004 23:19:37.0674 (UTC) FILETIME=[312BE2A0:01C3EAAC] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I think the scrapping had more to do with reducing taxes more than = anything else. -----Original Message----- From: LAMAassoc@aol.com [mailto:LAMAassoc@aol.com] Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 9:36 PM To: aurora7@juno.com; LAMAassoc@aol.com Cc: mittner@webtv.net; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Trust Plates, In a message dated 1/30/04 7:31:17 PM, aurora7@juno.com writes: << What always struck me was the railroad company still paying on these locomotives, huge pieces of complex machinery sitting idle! As soon as they owned them outright, they scrapped them! I know it was done everywhere, but it goes against my Yankee thriftiness. >> ********************** Wasn't this strategy simply a function of the IRS regulations? When the locomotives were fully depreciated, they were "worthless,"=20 especially if they were not in revenue producing service. And, since the = RR didn't=20 owned the engine, the RR probably got paid by the bank/owner to scrap = the engine. Accountants? Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eSCM-MailFrom: From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 15:45:01 -0800 From: Rob Schoenberg [mailto:robsch@optonline.net] Subject: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 19:24:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] M1b bummer MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Guys, I seemed to have come up with my own solution for the rubbing of the rod/crank surfaces. Again, when weathering the loco mechanism, the rubbing of these 2 surfaces resulted in a shiny circular shape around the main rod and main crank. Too obvious to leave alone. Sooooo, I found out that if you take the main crank pin screws out, one sees the crank assembly is in 2 pieces. The Crank has a cast on bearing that slips thru the hole in the main rod, the hole in the drive rods and finally into the mating nub/hole on the driver. The Crank bearing mates with this nub on the driver to keep it locked into one position. I carefully ground the main rod end near the hole thinner using a dremel. I did all this with the rod still attached to the loco because I didn't want to tear everything apart. Once the surface was ground thinner, I had to find a spacer to slip in. I found that the hole in a copper spring that is used in a KD #5 box, is an exact fit to slip over that bearing on the crank. I had to trim that coupler box spring into a shape of a circle, very close with little excess remaining around the hole. When this is slipped between the crank and the main rod, it separates them enough so they keep from rubbing each other. This spacer I made is also small enough in diameter it can barely be seen. Once it was reassembled and weathered again, the problem was fixed and no scrapping evident except for the slight normal wear spots. So I am happy with the result. Takes nerves to do a little surgery. Most probably won't want to bother with. But that shine had to go. *Note* Do not attempt this with out a safety net! I will not be responsible for any goofs that may occur by anyone trying this. I did this on my own due to I couldn't resist. I am a tinker-er. There, that should be good enough. I am now free from any claims I messed up anyone's Broadway Ltd M1a/b 4-8-2 Steam Locomotives. ..........Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] M1b bummer Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:30:10 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gary, you have to watch out as it is a conductor, but I have used Neolube from PBL in such cases. A little shiny (it is a suspension of graphite) but it is darker and of course is designed to be a lubricant. I used a lot of it on my United I1 valve gear and drive rods. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 1:32 PM Subject: [PRR] M1b bummer > List, > > Anyone turn their M1a/b's into something that looks like something > other than a fresh out of the shop Loco yet? I ran into a weathering > problem when I went to airbrush the grime and etc on the drivers and > rods. With the mechanism running I sprayed my colors on to the turning > drivers and moving rods. After I had what I wanted I noticed a bright > shiny spot where the main crankpin and crank turn. Seems there is no > space between the surfaces of the Main Rod and Crank to keep the > surfaces from rubbing. The result is a circular scrape on the surface. > Paint will never have a chance to remain. Now it looks like I will have > to see if I can get a tiny thin washer in the there. Probably not easy > and most likely have to grind some surfaces thinner before the washer > get fit in. I can leave as is but it looks stupid! So, I need to look > into this.......Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work! > > PRR K4s Loco Pics: > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ > > PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > > and...... > > PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 20:01:33 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] M1b bummer Gary, Have you tried to use Blackin it? This chemically blackens the surface. At a minimum it will last longer than paint. Rich Orr -------------------------------1075856493 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Gary,
 
Have you tried to use Blackin it?  This chemically blackens the su= rface.  At a minimum it will last longer than paint.
 
Rich Orr
-------------------------------1075856493-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 20:07:33 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? In a message dated 2/3/2004 6:20:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, robsch@optonline.net writes: A visitor to my website sent me this photo of Iowa Traction Railroad Co.'s plow #30 asking if it was an F22. It sure looks like one to me! Was this a PRR F22? Is so does anyone know any more about it? Like what it's PRR # was etc... Any info would be appreciated! Oops.. almost forgot to add the link to the photo... it's at: http://prr.railfan.net/photos/submitted/IATR30_JohnRichards.jpg Rob: PRR had 119 F22 cars numbers 435287- 435400 and 925516-925535. Five lasted into PC. There is a picture at http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?photo=PRR_435317_925527_F22_ E12573_090440.jpg&fr=clF22 Rich Orr -------------------------------1075856853 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 2/3/2004 6:20:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, robsch@op= tonline.net writes:
A visitor to my website sent me this photo of=20= Iowa Traction Railroad Co.'s
plow #30 asking if it was an F22.  It s= ure looks
like one to me!  Was this a PRR F22?  Is so does anyo= ne know any more about
it?  Like what it's PRR # was etc...  An= y
info would be appreciated!  Oops.. almost forgot to add the link t= o the
photo...  it's at:
http://prr.railfan.net/photos/submitted/= IATR30_JohnRichards.jpg
Rob:
 
PRR had 119 F22 cars numbers 435287- 435400 and 925516-925535.  Fi= ve lasted into PC.  There is a picture at
 
 
Rich Orr
-------------------------------1075856853-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 20:09:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] M1b bummer MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Rich, If Blacken It dosn't penetrate the metal and only blackens the surface, the constant rotating of the 2 pieces that rub, would cause it to be shiny as well. It needs seperation with a washer/spacer as I did. Unless mine is the only one like that? It is a minor design problem I think. At least for those who weather. I will see when I get my second M1b. I used Blacken it once on a set of Sunset M1 Drivers. Unless I didn't do something right, I won't use that stuff again. It turned those drivers Green about a month later......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: k4sb@niia.net Subject: Re: [PRR] M1b bummer Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 02:02:15 -00 >From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) >Subject: Re: [PRR] M1b bummer >Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 20:09:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 21:28:30 -0500 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hey Yuze Gize, Hold On! IIRC the Milwaukee also had cars very similar to this... Which may make more sense... Some pne should offer this up to the Steam Era Freight Car list... But it could be an F22, but we should check. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 21:56:15 -0500 From: Rob Schoenberg Subject: RE: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com [mailto:TGREGMRTN@aol.com] Subject: Re: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] pullman troop cars Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 21:10:54 -0600 The troop sleeper cars were gone by the time you mention. The kitchen = cars were still used (a few of them) in early Korean Police Action. The = New Haven express car was converted from a troop sleeper, I am fairly = sure, not from a kitchen car. The Burlington express cars were = converted from troop kitchen cars in late 40's. More when I get a = chance to do some research.=20 I just got through painting my brass kitchen car for Burlington. I = didn't remove roof vents (in case I ever decide to sell ) which I should = rightly do for the Burlington car. I will post a picture when I get = through putting in windows (slide glass) and cross bars (piano wire). = Been on a binge of getting things done, painting my X42 mail storage car = after sitting for 21 years in the box. All to complete a mail train for = my BLI T1 :-). Next: BCW B74b horse express car. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Fred in Vt.=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 11:25 PM Subject: [PRR] pullman troop cars When in doubt, ask>> =20 Were any pullman troop sleepers/kitchens, in thier original = configuration still in use in 1953? Maybe as supplement to the PUC50R & = PUC53R converted heavy weight sleepers? The Keystone mentioned that PUC = units did run out of Pittsburgh to the east, so why not the troop cars? If not, would it be correct to think that they had all been put into = express/baggage service, or converted to MW cars? The Milwaukee supplier has advertised the forthcomming release of = troop cars, but the budget needs to know how & where they can be used in = the stated time frame. Looks like the kitchen just begs to be kitbashed = into a NH express box. Ideas-------suggestions-------????? Side note: NOAA is forcasting heavy snow for friday, and lingering = snow showers for saturday. If you plan to attend the Springfield, Ma. = show, leave early, or bring lots of coffee with you! This weeks RUMOR, = Branchline pullmans!?!?? ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C3EA9A.35BFC7D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
The troop sleeper cars were gone by the = time you=20 mention.  The kitchen cars were still used (a few of them) in early = Korean=20 Police Action.  The New Haven express car was converted from a = troop=20 sleeper, I am fairly sure, not from a kitchen car.  The Burlington = express=20 cars were converted from troop kitchen cars in late 40's.  More = when I get=20 a chance to do some research. 
 
 I just got through painting my = brass kitchen=20 car for Burlington.  I didn't remove roof vents (in case I ever = decide to=20 sell ) which I should rightly do for the Burlington car.  I will = post a=20 picture when I get through putting in windows (slide glass) and cross = bars=20 (piano wire).  Been on a binge of getting things done, painting my = X42 mail=20 storage car after sitting for 21 years in the box.  All to complete = a mail=20 train for my BLI T1 :-). Next: BCW B74b horse express car.
 
Bob Zoeller
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Fred in = Vt.=20
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 = 11:25=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] pullman troop = cars

When in doubt, = ask>>
          &nbs= p;=20
Were any pullman troop = sleepers/kitchens, in=20 thier original configuration still in use in 1953? Maybe as supplement = to the=20 PUC50R & PUC53R converted heavy weight sleepers? The Keystone = mentioned=20 that PUC units did run out of Pittsburgh to the east, so why not the = troop=20 cars?
 
If not, would it be correct to think = that they=20 had all been put into express/baggage service, or converted to MW=20 cars?
The Milwaukee supplier has advertised = the=20 forthcomming release of troop cars, but the budget needs to know how = &=20 where they can be used in the stated time frame. Looks like the = kitchen just=20 begs to be kitbashed into a NH express box. =20 Ideas-------suggestions-------?????
 
Side note: NOAA is forcasting heavy = snow for=20 friday, and lingering snow showers for saturday. If you plan to attend = the=20 Springfield, Ma. show, leave early, or bring lots of coffee with you! = This=20 weeks RUMOR, Branchline = pullmans!?!??
------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C3EA9A.35BFC7D0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] M1b bummer Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 21:19:37 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" > I used Blacken it once on a set of Sunset M1 Drivers. Unless I > didn't do something right, I won't use that stuff again. It turned those > drivers Green about a month later......Gary Blacken it is some sort of an acid etch that tends to rough up the surface. I had similar bad experience with some Capeline trucks and threw it away. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chuck Friedlein" Subject: [PRR] PB70 trucks Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 22:21:26 -0500 Does anyone know which class of trucks is under PB70 #4769 shown at the = bottom of THE KEYSTONE, Vol. 34, #2, Summer 2001, page24? Are elevation drawings of it available anywhere? Any help is much appreciated. Thanks, Chuck Friedlein ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3EAA4.106E3520 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Does anyone know which class of trucks is under PB70 = #4769=20 shown at the bottom of THE KEYSTONE, Vol. 34, #2, Summer 2001,=20 page24?
 
Are elevation drawings of it available = anywhere?
 
Any help is much appreciated.
Thanks,
Chuck Friedlein

------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3EAA4.106E3520-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 23:32:33 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p5 (Debian) at paonline.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Guys, A friend of mine who grew up in Iowa near there always used to revel in telling about how such-and-such little traction/shortline in Iowa got hold of one of the mighty PRR's flatcars, repainted it and turned it into a snow plow - thus erasing the evidence that they had stolen it. Never saw a photo of it before, but sounds like this must be it. I will ask him if he has any actual proof of this, or whether it is another urban legend. Jack Consoli ----- Original Message ----- From: ELDEN GATWOOD To: ; PRR-talk Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 6:45 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? > Rob; > You know, it does look an awful lot like an F22, and even more like an F23. > The trucks on it certainly look like those furnished on the F23 as-built. > The missing stake pocket is no big deal, but I also think the F22's had a > metal strip where the middle planks would have been located on the deck that > was where the gun "mount" was located and pivoted. It may actually have > been part of the car. I don't think the F23 had one. These flats I know > next to nothing about, though. Ask him if the center of the car appears to > have had a large reinforced center, or just planks. That may be the > give-away. > > Elden > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Schoenberg [mailto:robsch@optonline.net] > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 12:01 PM > To: PRR-talk > Subject: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? > > Hi all, > > A visitor to my website sent me this photo of Iowa Traction Railroad Co.'s > plow #30 asking if it was an F22. It sure looks > like one to me! Was this a PRR F22? Is so does anyone know any more about > it? Like what it's PRR # was etc... Any > info would be appreciated! Oops.. almost forgot to add the link to the > photo... it's at: > http://prr.railfan.net/photos/submitted/IATR30_JohnRichards.jpg > > Thanks, > > Rob > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 00:15:20 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p5 (Debian) at paonline.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: O.K., my friend just re-told me the story on this car: "About the IT flat car: Many years ago, (1967? 1969?) my family visited the Iowa Terminal. The Master Mechanic there told my dad a story about their snowplow. They needed a flat car for some MofW purpose, and when one came in interchange from Pennsylvania, they kept it. Put it way, way back in the weeds behind Emery shops. Faked the paperwork to document its return to the Chicago Great Western interchange. A Pennsy representative did come looking for it but went away empty handed After 15 years (the statute of limitations for theft), they brought it out of the weeds to use it. Eventually it became a plow. Fifteen years. That's planning ahead, no?." Sounds plausible... Jack Consoli ----- Original Message ----- From: ELDEN GATWOOD To: ; PRR-talk Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 6:45 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? > Rob; > You know, it does look an awful lot like an F22, and even more like an F23. > The trucks on it certainly look like those furnished on the F23 as-built. > The missing stake pocket is no big deal, but I also think the F22's had a > metal strip where the middle planks would have been located on the deck that > was where the gun "mount" was located and pivoted. It may actually have > been part of the car. I don't think the F23 had one. These flats I know > next to nothing about, though. Ask him if the center of the car appears to > have had a large reinforced center, or just planks. That may be the > give-away. > > Elden > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Schoenberg [mailto:robsch@optonline.net] > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 12:01 PM > To: PRR-talk > Subject: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? > > Hi all, > > A visitor to my website sent me this photo of Iowa Traction Railroad Co.'s > plow #30 asking if it was an F22. It sure looks > like one to me! Was this a PRR F22? Is so does anyone know any more about > it? Like what it's PRR # was etc... Any > info would be appreciated! Oops.. almost forgot to add the link to the > photo... it's at: > http://prr.railfan.net/photos/submitted/IATR30_JohnRichards.jpg > > Thanks, > > Rob > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 02:22:40 EST Subject: [PRR] M-1 tenders continued Pulled the month of Jan 2004 off my Audio Visual PRR calendar and what should appear to my eyes but M-1b 6758 with a 210F75b tender . It has the small doghouse just like the extra Sunset I-1 tender I have so that tank has found a new home. So far it looks like the 6736 and 6758 had the welded tanks. ------- Ken McCorry --part1_25.43c309d0.2d51f7c0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Pulled the mo= nth of Jan 2004 off my Audio Visual PRR calendar and what should appear to m= y eyes but M-1b 6758 with a 210F75b tender . It has the small doghouse just=20= like the extra Sunset I-1 tender I have so that tank has found a new home. S= o far it looks like the 6736 and 6758 had the welded tanks. ------- Ken McCo= rry --part1_25.43c309d0.2d51f7c0_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Renovo 66 - 67 Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 08:23:08 -0500 The radios began arriving with the SD-40s in 1964. Over the next two to three years radios were applied to the other locos beginning with the second generation road units, then the GP-9s and finally filtered down to the Alco fleet. When radios were installed, the antennae were removed. Yard engines in Philadelphia, New York, and Chicago to name a few places had space radios many years before of course. I am just speaking about the road power. Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of L. Heintz Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 12:40 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Renovo 66 - 67 Looking at a photocopy of an RNE article,by Bill Volkmer,about the Alcos of Renovo. Featured are the RS3' s (30-some) that were assigned there. The 8445 (PC-5569,LV-211)(hammerhead) is in several shots in both numbers in old & new paint. If Bill's dating is correct these pics show 8445 with antenna in June, 1966; in fresh paint w/small keystones and no antenna in Jan,1967; and in very faded paint, now 5569, on Sept.1,1967. Were all Renovo locos altered at this time ?? Was this the time period of removal of the antenna's on all diesels?? Lynn ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C3EAF8.1F12A350 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Message
The=20 radios began arriving with the SD-40s in 1964.  Over the next two = to three=20 years radios were applied to the other locos beginning with the second=20 generation road units, then the GP-9s and finally filtered down to the = Alco=20 fleet.  When radios were installed, the antennae were=20 removed.
 
Yard=20 engines in Philadelphia, New York, and Chicago to name a few places had = space=20 radios many years before of course.  I am just speaking about the = road=20 power.
 
Bill=20 V.
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of L.=20 Heintz
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 12:40 = PM
To:=20 prr-talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] Renovo 66 - = 67

Looking at a photocopy of an RNE = article,by=20 Bill Volkmer,about the Alcos of Renovo. Featured are the RS3' s = (30-some) that=20 were assigned there. The 8445 (PC-5569,LV-211)(hammerhead) is in=20 several shots in both numbers in old & new paint. If Bill's = dating is=20 correct these pics show 8445 with antenna in June, 1966; in fresh = paint=20 w/small keystones and no antenna in Jan,1967; and in very faded paint, = now=20 5569, on Sept.1,1967.
 
Were all Renovo locos altered at this = time=20 ?? 
 
Was this the time period of removal = of the=20 antenna's on all diesels?? 
 
Lynn
------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C3EAF8.1F12A350-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 08:05:38 -0600 Subject: Re: { SPAM 1 }::[PRR] pullman troop cars From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On Monday, February 2, 2004, at 11:25 PM, Fred in Vt. wrote: > When in doubt, ask>> > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 > Were any pullman troop sleepers/kitchens, in thier original=20 > configuration still in use in 1953? Maybe as supplement to the PUC50R=20= > & PUC53R converted heavy weight sleepers? The Keystone mentioned that=20= > PUC units did run out of Pittsburgh to the east, so why not the troop=20= > cars? Its my understanding that a few Kitchen cars (and perhaps some=20 sleepers) were transferred to the military at the end of WWII and that=20= these remained in service through the Korean War. I'm still seeking=20 confirmation of that however, but it would explain the existence of=20 unmodified cars. In addition, some of the Military's cars were=20 converted to other purposes such as crew cars for the SACs bombing=20 simulator. > =A0 > If not, would it be correct to think that they had all been put into=20= > express/baggage service, or converted to MW cars? > The Milwaukee supplier has advertised the forthcomming release of=20 > troop cars, but the budget needs to know how & where they can be used=20= > in the stated time frame. Looks like the kitchen just begs to be=20 > kitbashed into a NH express box.=A0 = Ideas-------suggestions-------????? Absolutely, except that you might wait a few months and see if Walthers=20= had the same idea (VBG) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin=20 Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-2-959574080 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Monday, February 2, 2004, at 11:25 PM, Fred in Vt. wrote: ArialWhen in doubt, = ask>> = Arial=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= ArialWere any pullman troop sleepers/kitchens, in thier original configuration still in use in 1953? Maybe as supplement to the PUC50R & PUC53R converted heavy weight sleepers? The Keystone mentioned that PUC units did run out of Pittsburgh to the east, so why not the troop = cars? Its my understanding that a few Kitchen cars (and perhaps some sleepers) were transferred to the military at the end of WWII and that these remained in service through the Korean War. I'm still seeking confirmation of that however, but it would explain the existence of unmodified cars. In addition, some of the Military's cars were converted to other purposes such as crew cars for the SACs bombing simulator. =A0 ArialIf not, would it be correct to think that they had all been put into express/baggage service, or converted to MW cars? ArialThe Milwaukee supplier has advertised the forthcomming release of troop cars, but the budget needs to know how & where they can be used in the stated time frame. Looks like the kitchen just begs to be kitbashed into a NH express box.=A0 Ideas-------suggestions-------????? Absolutely, except that you might wait a few months and see if Walthers had the same idea (VBG) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. =20 Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-2-959574080-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ARRJERRY@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 09:52:00 EST Subject: [PRR] BLI GG1 Hi all, I just got around to assigning my GG1 and noticed that it has 2 non functioning couplers. Has there been a recommended solution? Thanks much, Jerry --part1_192.255d8784.2d526110_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Hi all,
I just got around to assigning my GG1 and noticed that it has 2 non function= ing couplers. Has there been a recommended solution?
Thanks much,
          Jerry --part1_192.255d8784.2d526110_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI GG1 Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 10:25:31 -0500 Jerry, =20 The GG1 comes with European Std Kadees to snap in. They work, but they = look awful! They look like Kadees with a basketball backboard! =20 I modified a scale Accumate. It fits, looks good, and works. It = required drilling a hole for the screw to hold it in place. =20 regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of ARRJERRY@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 9:52 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] BLI GG1 Hi all, I just got around to assigning my GG1 and noticed that it has 2 non functioning couplers. Has there been a recommended solution? Thanks much, Jerry=20 ------=_NextPart_000_00A0_01C3EB09.37BB4A40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Message
Jerry,
 
The=20 GG1 comes with European Std Kadees to snap in.  They work, but they = look=20 awful!  They look like Kadees with a basketball=20 backboard!
 
I=20 modified a scale Accumate.  It fits, looks good, and works.  = It=20 required drilling a hole for the screw to hold it in = place.
 
regards,
Andy Miller
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of=20 ARRJERRY@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 9:52 = AM
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] BLI=20 GG1

Hi all,
I just got = around to=20 assigning my GG1 and noticed that it has 2 non functioning couplers. = Has there=20 been a recommended solution?
Thanks=20 much,
          = Jerry=20
------=_NextPart_000_00A0_01C3EB09.37BB4A40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 10:35:44 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, As someone who is intimately familiar with the Car Hire Rules, having been deeply involved in the deprescription of same, I can assure you that someone paid the PRR for the car.. Under the car hire rules, PRR either got paid the daily car hire amount, or later, the hourly amount, for that flat car, on a monthly basis, or the car was declared a total loss and salvage value was paid for it. Failure to do one or the other would have brought about an AAR embargo on interchange. Now perhaps the Mason City & Clear Lake, or its successor Iowa Terminal, may have "fudged" and told the PRR the car was destroyed, paying salvage value. The PRR would NOT have gone looking for the car If the traction line got the CGW to sign off on receipt, the CGW would have had to pay the PRR. It would have been the railroad that went looking for the car, as it was the one "on the hook". If US cars didn't return from Cuba or Mexico, it was the interchanging carrier that took the loss, not the owner. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "jconsoli" To: "ELDEN GATWOOD" ; "PRR-talk" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? > O.K., my friend just re-told me the story on this car: > > "About the IT flat car: Many years ago, (1967? 1969?) my family visited > the > Iowa Terminal. The Master Mechanic there told my dad a story about their > snowplow. They needed a flat car for some MofW purpose, and when one came > in > interchange from Pennsylvania, they kept it. Put it way, way back in the > weeds behind Emery shops. Faked the paperwork to document its return to > the > Chicago Great Western interchange. A Pennsy representative did come > looking > for it but went away empty handed > > After 15 years (the statute of limitations for theft), they brought it out > of > the weeds to use it. Eventually it became a plow. > > Fifteen years. That's planning ahead, no?." > > > Sounds plausible... > > > Jack Consoli > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ELDEN GATWOOD > To: ; PRR-talk > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 6:45 PM > Subject: RE: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? > > > > Rob; > > You know, it does look an awful lot like an F22, and even more like an > F23. > > The trucks on it certainly look like those furnished on the F23 as-built. > > The missing stake pocket is no big deal, but I also think the F22's had a > > metal strip where the middle planks would have been located on the deck > that > > was where the gun "mount" was located and pivoted. It may actually have > > been part of the car. I don't think the F23 had one. These flats I know > > next to nothing about, though. Ask him if the center of the car appears > to > > have had a large reinforced center, or just planks. That may be the > > give-away. > > > > Elden > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rob Schoenberg [mailto:robsch@optonline.net] > > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 12:01 PM > > To: PRR-talk > > Subject: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? > > > > Hi all, > > > > A visitor to my website sent me this photo of Iowa Traction Railroad Co.'s > > plow #30 asking if it was an F22. It sure looks > > like one to me! Was this a PRR F22? Is so does anyone know any more > about > > it? Like what it's PRR # was etc... Any > > info would be appreciated! Oops.. almost forgot to add the link to the > > photo... it's at: > > http://prr.railfan.net/photos/submitted/IATR30_JohnRichards.jpg > > > > Thanks, > > > > Rob > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eSCM-MailFrom: From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 08:39:14 -0800 From: jconsoli [mailto:jconsoli@paonline.com] Subject: Re: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? > From: Rob Schoenberg [mailto:robsch@optonline.net] > Subject: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 09:16:27 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: RE: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 11:15:35 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 10:39 AM, ELDEN GATWOOD wrote: > Jack; > What a story! I wonder what the car was being used for when it arrived > there? Most likely as an idler . > Do you think it came with those trucks? Highly doubtful, but possible > So, what do you think? F22 or F23? The tracing for the F22 species "wood floor" whereas the one for the F23 specifies a steel floor car. In addition, there were on 6 F23 listed in the ORER, whereas there were 119 F22s listed (109 Lines East, 10 Lines West #s in 1944)...Hey maybe its the 120th car!! ;^) Capacity of these cuties is listed as 190,000 lbs (as built 150,000 lbs)! I think that these would be a GREAT scratchbuilding project for PRRPro Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 12:20:24 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <771B1E5B26C8EA4BB4523881A34A80C601FE23@isgmx01.ttisg.com> Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jack, Amazing story if it's true! If the trucks are original it appears that it would have had to have been swiped very early on. (Pre 1932) Rationale for this thought... The classification of trucks document, 70003-B (at http://prr.railfan.net/trucks/D70003-B.pdf) from 1923 shows the F22&F23's built before 3/16/1915 as having 2E1F1 trucks which match up pretty well with the trucks on the IATR car in the photo. Here's the truck diagram: http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=2E-F1_2E1F1-48003.gif F22's and F23's built after 1915 had 2F-F1 (crown) trucks. Jumping ahead to the 1932 truck classification that I have 98401-E, all F22 and F23 cars are listed as having 2F-F2 trucks. So for the car to still have arch bars it seems to me that it would have been off the PRR by 1932! Which I guess if the 15 years of storage is true isn't that far fetched. Is there any chance of records of something like this still being around at Harrisburg or Lewistown? ie record of a car being scrapped off-line etc... Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of ELDEN > GATWOOD > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 11:39 AM > To: 'jconsoli'; ELDEN GATWOOD; PRR-talk > Cc: robsch@optonline.net > Subject: RE: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? > > > Jack; > What a story! I wonder what the car was being used for when it arrived > there? Do you think it came with those trucks? > So, what do you think? F22 or F23? > > Elden > > -----Original Message----- > From: jconsoli [mailto:jconsoli@paonline.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 9:15 PM > To: ELDEN GATWOOD; PRR-talk > Cc: robsch@optonline.net > Subject: Re: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? > > O.K., my friend just re-told me the story on this car: > > "About the IT flat car: Many years ago, (1967? 1969?) my family visited > the > Iowa Terminal. The Master Mechanic there told my dad a story about their > snowplow. They needed a flat car for some MofW purpose, and when one came > in > interchange from Pennsylvania, they kept it. Put it way, way back in the > weeds behind Emery shops. Faked the paperwork to document its return to > the > Chicago Great Western interchange. A Pennsy representative did come > looking > for it but went away empty handed > > After 15 years (the statute of limitations for theft), they brought it out > of > the weeds to use it. Eventually it became a plow. > > Fifteen years. That's planning ahead, no?." > > > Sounds plausible... > > > Jack Consoli > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ELDEN GATWOOD > To: ; PRR-talk > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 6:45 PM > Subject: RE: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? > > > > Rob; > > You know, it does look an awful lot like an F22, and even more like an > F23. > > The trucks on it certainly look like those furnished on the F23 > as-built. > > The missing stake pocket is no big deal, but I also think the > F22's had a > > metal strip where the middle planks would have been located on the deck > that > > was where the gun "mount" was located and pivoted. It may actually have > > been part of the car. I don't think the F23 had one. These > flats I know > > next to nothing about, though. Ask him if the center of the car appears > to > > have had a large reinforced center, or just planks. That may be the > > give-away. > > > > Elden > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rob Schoenberg [mailto:robsch@optonline.net] > > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 12:01 PM > > To: PRR-talk > > Subject: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? > > > > Hi all, > > > > A visitor to my website sent me this photo of Iowa Traction > Railroad Co.'s > > plow #30 asking if it was an F22. It sure looks > > like one to me! Was this a PRR F22? Is so does anyone know any more > about > > it? Like what it's PRR # was etc... Any > > info would be appreciated! Oops.. almost forgot to add the link to the > > photo... it's at: > > http://prr.railfan.net/photos/submitted/IATR30_JohnRichards.jpg > > > > Thanks, > > > > Rob > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 14:55:38 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Brickyard/Coburn in Altoona From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <1A7D08B0-574C-11D8-ABF1-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Believe it or not, this guy's never been to the Brickyard crossing in Altoona! Been downtown, the Curve, Cresson, etc., but never to the Brickyard. Looking to go there this weekend. Looking at MapQuest, it looks like the best route (from I-99) is off North Logan Blvd, to Race Street, left on Pine Avenue, which looks like it wraps around to become South 10th Avenue, which leads to the crossing. Is this correct? Alternative would be hard left off of North Logan Blvd onto Broad Avenue, right onto 36th Street, right onto (unmarked street), left onto 35th Street, follow to the crossing. (Looks like 35th doesn't connect all the way to Broad Avenue.) The weather could be a factor, but we intend to spend an hour or so at the Brickyard, then head up to the Jackson Street bridge at Gallitzin, then on to Cresson for several hours. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Brickyard/Coburn in Altoona Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 16:05:05 -0500 RE: [PRR] Brickyard/Coburn in Altoona

Not much at the brickyard crossing anymore.  = Last time I was there one of the Original Silverliners derailed going = up to the curve.  Still a good area for pictures

Chris Chany


------_=_NextPart_001_01C3EB62.8FFB2870-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <39EE6352-575E-11D8-8612-000A9570A806@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] N5 Cabins in Passenger Service Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 17:05:21 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Anyone know of any cases of N5's in passenger service that had trainphone antennas installed? A good reason not to have them is electrified territory. But anyone know of any that did? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 18:34:45 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI GG1 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry: Another option is the Kadee #78 couplers. Remove the NEM coupler or dummy coupler and the "boxes" that they couplers push into by simply pulling down on them with a small pliers. Trim the opening a little so the #78 coupler box fits (very little -- the #78 shaft is narrower than the #5). Attach the #78 using a 1/4" 0-80 screw into the front hole from the old coupler pocket. Jeff Warner ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 20:55:33 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] M1b bummer Gary, We solved this problem by using the synthetic isulation pads used under power transistors. These are not the mica pads but a synthetic material, very thin, not affected by lubricants, and appears that it will wear well. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1075946133 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Gary,
 
  We solved this problem by using the synthetic isulation pads use= d under power transistors.  These are not the mica pads but a synthetic= material, very thin, not affected by lubricants, and appears that it w= ill wear well. 

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1075946133-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "J. Smith" Subject: [PRR] domatory cars Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 17:47:53 -0500 What exactly was used as a dormitory car on PRR passenger trains? Were = they special cars or any old unused sleeper that happened to be = available? Jeff ------=_NextPart_000_00F2_01C3EB47.03FEEE30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
What exactly was used as a dormitory = car on PRR=20 passenger trains?  Were they special cars or any old unused sleeper = that=20 happened to be available?
 
 
Jeff
------=_NextPart_000_00F2_01C3EB47.03FEEE30-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 20:05:15 -0500 From: dave pierson Subject: Re: [PRR] train phones Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: J. Smith wrote: > What year did the PRR start using the train phone in earnest? > > Jeff [belatedly, and not having seen a definitive answer, and without digging...] Development started prewar. I would say 1939ish for 'serious'. More installations postwar, however the developments in technology meant that VHF as we know it rapidly (ok: 10 years...) overtook trainphone. best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 22:08:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Pgh Commuter T1's MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, Need some definitive info on the history of the T1's and their use on the Commuter runs out of Pittsburgh. The following is needed. 1. How far east out of Pennsylvania Station did the Commter T1's run? Greensburg? Derry? Other? 2. Once at their outbound destination, how did the T's turn for the trip back to the "burg" 3. What was the common consists of these trains? P70's, P54's, other? 4. Any known published photos of a T1 and its train in route? I have and seen photos of the T1s sitting with the other Commuter Locos (G5's K4s's) at the ready yard in Pgh. Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 21:17:06 -0500 From: Ken Meyer Subject: [PRR] Train phone Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: When did train phones appear on PRR cabin cars? Ken Meyer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:42:43 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Pgh Commuter T1's Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:52:23 -0600 (CST) Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR]: PB70 trucks From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Chuck asked: >Does anyone know which class of trucks is under PB70 #4769 shown at the bottom of THE KEYSTONE, Vol. 34, #2, Summer 2001, page247? Chuck, The car in question was purchased second hand from the B&LE in December 1942. The text indicates that it was built to NYC specs by Pressed Steel Car Co in 1925 and was scrapped April 25, 1951. Therefore, those aren't PRR trucks under that combine! Now, I'm sure that somewhere PRR gave these one-of-a-kind (at least for them) trucks a designation, but beats me what it would be, and the likelihood of an elevation is pretty slim, I'm afraid. The good news is that they might not be that hard to scratchbuild, given their fabricated appearance... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 16:57:04 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Branchline Pullmans From: Bruce Smith Message-Id: <7339335A-5765-11D8-92E0-000A958DAD46@mail.auburn.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Good Afternoon, I had an email conversation with Bill Schneider of Branchline trains regarding their upcoming Pullmans on the passenger car list and I though I would pass on what I learned. Bill indicated that three Pullmans will be released in quick succession around May, the 8-1-2 (plan 3979a), the 10-1-2 (plan 3585) and the 12-1 (plan 3410, 3410a). Those folks with reserved cars will get kits (and these are KITS, with LOTS of parts) immediately. Those without reservations may have to wait if the first run sells out (and they are basing the run on reservations + some). The PRR cars offered are labeled as "post-war". These cars will come lettered for the post 1948 transfer of ownership, and will be Tuscan with PENNSYLVANIA on the letter boards. Likewise, cars listed for other railroads will come lettered for that road. Bill indicated that he would like to offer the pre 1948 cars painted for specific roads/trains but lettered PULLMAN, but that will be in the "future". I will be painting and decaling mine from undec, or green/unlettered kits, since I'm not going to be able to wait ! I will definitely propose these cars for a PRRPro project when they come out!! Bottom line? If you want to build HO scale Pullmans this summer, get your reservations in NOW! Happy (oh very happy!) Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 16:43:21 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Future Broadway PRR Locos From: Bruce Smith Message-Id: <88C395E3-5763-11D8-92E0-000A958DAD46@mail.auburn.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Afternoon, I was over looking at the QSI site yesterday, and it may provide a clue as to the next PRR release from Broadway. QSI offers sound for "Small PRR Steamers", "Medium PRR Steamers", "Large PRR Steamers" and...drum roll please...PRR S2 turbine. This of course doesn't rule out anyone, but looking at the market appeal (including non-SPFs), that S2 is looking mighty interesting! A close second would be the Large steam (so the I1 would follow a J1 and M1A/B?) since that would not require any re-engineering of the electronics to make it fit. Time will tell! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:40:31 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Pgh Commuter T1's From: "Frank E. Labor" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Coal Houses circa 1900 Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:55:00 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <7540B409-5681-11D8-8889-000A95A7412A@comcast.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 thread-index: AcPqqNSsc3st6tAxTvicZRSvfJVgkwBC+Zag Message-Id: X-ELNK-Trace: 25c1690f04eb91106f36dc87813833b2c1d97e5e02ae7b52e7f721f194427bb66208e8325e7e31b6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Speaking of old coal facilities, my great grandfather ran coal barges up and down the Delaware River. Can any one tell me where Lardner's Point is? I understand that this is where they unloaded the barges. Any e/w street names would be appreciated. Thanx Frank -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of David Wartell Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 12:45 To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: [PRR] PRR Coal Houses circa 1900 List, As I am getting closer to having my layout in running condition, I will be having some questions for the list. I am modelling the Newtown Square branch of the PRR around 1900 when it was known as the Philadelphia and Delaware County Railroad. As I go over the CT 1000's I have access to, I notice that there entries for 2 coal houses on the branch. One at mile post 8.9 (Llanarch) and one at milepost 15.3 (Newtown Square). I am assuming these are there to refuel the engines if needed. Does any one have a description, picture or drawing of a turn of the century coal house they are willing to share? Dave Wartell djwartel@comcast.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 03:25:41 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: [PRR] Off topic post -- ATTN: Wayne Beatty Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Wayne: Could you please contact me off-list? I am getting a rejection on your e-mail address when I try to send directly. It says it is rejected by your server. Thanks, Jeff Warner ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 18:03:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Brickyard/Coburn in Altoona MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry..... Take Broad St. south to 31st street,then make a right turn. Drive toward the mainline (you'll see it ). BEFORE you go underneath the main, make a left and that road (sorry,don't know the name of road) will take you to the Brickyard Crossing. Hope this helps. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: "prr-talk" From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] domatory cars Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 06:26:28 -0500 To: "J. Smith" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Feb 4, 2004, at 5:47 PM, J. Smith wrote: > What exactly was used as a dormitory car on PRR passenger trains?=A0=20= > Were they special cars or any old unused sleeper that happened to be=20= > available? They were used to house crew on many of the longer runs. As of 1954, I=20= know a lot of heavyweight 14 section cars were used as dormitories,=20 including on the Liberty Limited. > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] Future Broadway PRR Locos Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 08:20:32 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] Future Broadway PRR Locos Thread-Index: AcPrn1I0QL0JK+unTKyF60O12O/GNwAU63YQ From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: "Bruce Smith" , "PRR-Talk" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Feb 2004 14:20:33.0032 (UTC) FILETIME=[3716B080:01C3EBF3] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I really hope they devote their efforst to developing models of the I1s = or various H9s, which can be used by almost any PRR modeler, rather than = the S2, which was one of a kind and whose operating life time was very, = very short. -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Smith [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu] Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 4:43 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Future Broadway PRR Locos Afternoon, I was over looking at the QSI site yesterday, and it may provide a clue=20 as to the next PRR release from Broadway. QSI offers sound for "Small=20 PRR Steamers", "Medium PRR Steamers", "Large PRR Steamers" and...drum=20 roll please...PRR S2 turbine. This of course doesn't rule out anyone,=20 but looking at the market appeal (including non-SPFs), that S2 is=20 looking mighty interesting! A close second would be the Large steam=20 (so the I1 would follow a J1 and M1A/B?) since that would not require=20 any re-engineering of the electronics to make it fit. Time will tell! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin=20 Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 09:26:31 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] Future Broadway PRR Locos Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Not to mention the fact a lot of us will buy multiple H's or I's, but noone will probably buy more than 1 S2 (if that)... Jeff Warner Cadwell, Marvin L wrote: >I really hope they devote their efforst to developing models of the I1s or various H9s, which can be used by almost any PRR modeler, rather than the S2, which was one of a kind and whose operating life time was very, very short. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Bruce Smith [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu] >Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 4:43 PM >To: PRR-Talk >Subject: [PRR] Future Broadway PRR Locos > > >Afternoon, > >I was over looking at the QSI site yesterday, and it may provide a clue >as to the next PRR release from Broadway. QSI offers sound for "Small >PRR Steamers", "Medium PRR Steamers", "Large PRR Steamers" and...drum >roll please...PRR S2 turbine. This of course doesn't rule out anyone, >but looking at the market appeal (including non-SPFs), that S2 is >looking mighty interesting! A close second would be the Large steam >(so the I1 would follow a J1 and M1A/B?) since that would not require >any re-engineering of the electronics to make it fit. Time will tell! > >Happy Rails >Bruce > >Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. >Scott-Ritchey Research Center >334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) >http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > >"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin >Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 09:36:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Future Broadway PRR Locos From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 09:20 AM, Cadwell, Marvin L wrote: > I really hope they devote their efforst to developing models of the > I1s or various H9s, which can be used by almost any PRR modeler, > rather than the S2, which was one of a kind and whose operating life > time was very, very short. Don't forget, BLI is not the only QSI customer any longer. Life Like/Canada is planning to use QSI, Atlas will be making their first QSI loco announcement this weekend in Springfield, and Lionel is now in the HO game. Quite frankly, the S2 has Lionel written all over it. I don't think BLI could sell enough S2's to make it worth their while. (No inside info... just a personal opinion.) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 09:44:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE: [PRR] Future Broadway PRR Locos MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bruce, I really don't think what you saw was any indication on what Broadway's plans are . I stopped by QSI's site way back to listen to those sound files. That is all it is. Sound files of the chips they made available for the O Gauge stuff that is on the market. Probably mostly for Lionel and Sunset Third Rail. These sounds weren't designed for BLI products in mind. What this does do is expands the possibilities for wider loco development by BLI. That is if QSI can developed the chips small enough to fit in the smallest of tenders like those found on the B6sb and A5's. If BLI produces an S2 Turbine, I think they are falling into the same problem as the people who think they want these locos. Everyone seems to think big long locos are what is needed. Little do they know, it becomes a premium shelf model in most everyone's collection because of the lack of huge curves needed for these big long beasts. If consumers think long about this, small and average size locos would be in their best interest. Bring on the H's...Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 08:47:54 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Future Broadway PRR Locos From: Bruce Smith In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <47DE6012-57EA-11D8-81C0-000A958DAD46@mail.auburn.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 08:20 AM, Cadwell, Marvin L wrote: > I really hope they devote their efforst to developing models of the > I1s or various H9s, which can be used by almost any PRR modeler, > rather than the S2, which was one of a kind and whose operating life > time was very, very short. I don't think any SPF will disagree, and I hope that the sales of the M1a/b and J1 will encourage them in that direction (since I doubt too many non-SPFs will buy those locos), but from a MARKETING standpoint, the S2 is a killer app...which would you rather do? Sell 4 locos each to 1000 buyers (250 of whom are like me and will criticize the paint, the details, the sound etc as not being correct) or 1 loco to 10,000 buyers (most of whom don't know what DGLE means)??? Sorry, but its a no brainer...The S2 has appeal way way beyond PRR modelers and would likely outsell any of the PRR locos released to date (it is the "Lionel Syndrome"). Jerry did make an excellent point regarding other manufacturers and QSI...so the bottom line is that it may not be BLI., but I'm going to bet we see an S2 soon... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 08:58:30 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Lardner's Point From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 12:55 AM, Frank E. Labor wrote: > Speaking of old coal facilities, my great grandfather ran coal barges=20= > up and > down the Delaware River. Can any one tell me where Lardner's Point=20 > is? I > understand that this is where they unloaded the barges. Any e/w = street > names would be appreciated. Thanx > Frank Frank, Repeat after me ...I LOVE GOOGLE! A quick GOOGLE search hit the=20 following page: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~wdstock/pumping.htm Here it says (with lovely photo illustrations): "Lardner's Point Pumping Station was initially known as The Frankford=20 Pumping Station. " and "An 1877 engineer's sketch showing the route of the 30" water main=20 running from the new Lardner's Point Pumping Station, up Robbins Ave.=20 then south on State Rd., then north on the line of Devereaux St. to the=20= Wentz Farm Reservoir north of Comly St. and Second St. Pike.=A0 The = water=20 main crossed Wissinoming Creek on a 1002' trestle supported by piles.=A0=20= See below.=A0 The first water pumped by the Pumping Station reached the=20= reservoir on December 10, 1877. " and "In 1907, The Lardner's Point Pumping Station burned 17,400 tons of=20 coal to pump 15 billion gallons to water users in Philadelphia. " So, the coal was used to pump Delaware River water to use in=20 Philadelphia... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin=20 Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-4-1049146736 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 12:55 AM, Frank E. Labor wrote: Speaking of old coal facilities, my great grandfather ran coal barges up and down the Delaware River. Can any one tell me where Lardner's Point is? I understand that this is where they unloaded the barges. Any e/w street names would be appreciated. Thanx Frank Frank, Repeat after me <...I LOVE GOOGLE! A quick GOOGLE search hit the following page: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~wdstock/pumping.htm Here it says (with lovely photo illustrations): "3333,3333,9999Lardner's Point Pumping Station was initially known as The Frankford Pumping Station. " and "3333,3333,9999An 1877 engineer's sketch showing the route of the 30" water main running from the new Lardner's Point Pumping Station, up Robbins Ave. then south on State Rd., then north on the line of Devereaux St. to the Wentz Farm Reservoir north of Comly St. and Second St. Pike.=A0 The water main crossed Wissinoming Creek on a 1002' trestle supported by piles.=A0 See below.=A0 The first water pumped by the Pumping Station reached the reservoir on December 10, 1877. " and "3333,3333,9999In 1907, The Lardner's Point Pumping Station burned 17,400 tons of coal to pump 15 billion gallons to water users in Philadelphia. " So, the coal was used to pump Delaware River water to use in Philadelphia... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. =20 Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-4-1049146736-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 07:03:11 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] domatory cars Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:19:51 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] domatory cars From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 10:03 AM, robert netzlof wrote: > > Recall that the 1953 Car Builders Cyclopedia shows interior views of > a "Pennsylvania Baggage - Dormitory Car". Unfortunately, it does not > say where the car was used, nor how many there were, nor show any > exterior views. > > But it would sem that there was at least one "special car". Yes, there were also some cars built for that purpose. Baggage-Dormitory, Class BD85 was built by ACF, four cars, 6691-6694 inclusive. Passenger-Dormitory, Class PD70r Passenger-Dormitory-Baggage, Classed PDB70r, PDB70ar, and PDB70a Passenger-Dormitory-Baggage, Class PDB85r built by Budd, #6700 ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] dormitory cars Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:32:42 -0500 The twin unit Diner on the Broadway. I believe the kitchen car had a dormitory section. Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: robert netzlof [mailto:wb3iqe@rocketmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 10:03 AM To: J. Smith Cc: prr-talk Subject: Re: [PRR] domatory cars --- Jerry@Pennsy, UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR. wrote: > On Feb 4, 2004, at 5:47 PM, J. Smith wrote: >=20 > > What exactly was used as a dormitory car on PRR passenger > trains?=A0=20 > > Were they special cars or any old unused sleeper that happened to > be=20 > > available? Recall that the 1953 Car Builders Cyclopedia shows interior views of a "Pennsylvania Baggage - Dormitory Car". Unfortunately, it does not say where the car was used, nor how many there were, nor show any exterior views. But it would sem that there was at least one "special car". =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3EBFD.4BD995F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: [PRR] dormitory cars

The twin unit Diner on the Broadway.  I believe = the kitchen car had a dormitory section.

Chris Chany

-----Original Message-----
From: robert netzlof [mailto:wb3iqe@rocketmail.com]<= /FONT>
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 10:03 AM
To: J. Smith
Cc: prr-talk
Subject: Re: [PRR] domatory cars


--- Jerry@Pennsy, = UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR. wrote:
> On Feb 4, 2004, at 5:47 PM, J. Smith = wrote:
>
> > What exactly was used as a dormitory car = on PRR passenger
> trains?=A0
> > Were they special cars or any old unused = sleeper that happened to
> be
> > available?

Recall that the 1953 Car Builders Cyclopedia shows = interior views of
a "Pennsylvania Baggage - Dormitory Car". = Unfortunately, it does not
say where the car was used, nor how many there were, = nor show any
exterior views.

But it would sem that there was at least one = "special car".

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing = online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

---------------------------------------------------------------= --------
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C3EBFD.4BD995F0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:38:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] M1b Variation MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, Anyone come acroos this BLI M1b variation? M1b with Footboard Pilot and Modernized Headlight position? A buddy of mine spotted an M1a and M1b at a Hobby Shop yesterday. Both locos had the Foot Board Pilots! The M1a had the as built front end while the M1b had what was as mentioned above. This is interesting. Wonder if this arrangment ever happened on an M1b. Plenty of photos show M1a's with footboards on an otherwise modern front end. In partcular, M1a later turned into M1b #6749. I have seen photos of 6749 still as an M1a in July 1947 with Footboads and Modern frontend. Another photo shows 6749 in 1949 now with Drop Coupler Pilot and is now an M1b. I havn't spotted a prototype M1b yet with Footboards and Modern Front end so BLI quality Control issues has sprung up again and resulted in a possible make believe version? Now, only if they could accidently produce the M1b with Solid Pilot and Original Headlight position. Then the famous 6783 can be modeled......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:46:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] dormitory cars From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 10:32 AM, Chany, Christopher wrote: > The twin unit Diner on the Broadway.=A0 I believe the kitchen car had = a=20 > dormitory section. Yes, the Full Length Diner (D85d) had a dormitory section, though it is=20= not cited in the class designation. So did Diner class D70dr. Good catch! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 07:56:41 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] Future Broadway PRR Locos From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:59:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] My 6749 version, MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, Although not fully completed here is my rendition of M1b 6749, here is a sneak peek. http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/sneak.jpg It represents the 6749 from 1949 to scrapping in 1958. It started out as an unlettered BLI M1b. Certain details were exchanged in favor of finer brass castings. There is a lot one could do do make this loco better than what it is. Just depends on how far you want to go. I may or may not, but probably will, eventually, add the rest of the conduit and jct boxes that should be present around the mid to lower boiler front sides. More on what I did do at a later date. Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:34:39 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] M1b Variation From: Bruce Smith In-Reply-To: <6347-40226361-2018@storefull-3113.bay.webtv.net> Message-Id: <313FADE6-57F9-11D8-81C0-000A958DAD46@mail.auburn.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 09:38 AM, Gary Mittner wrote: > List, > > Anyone come acroos this BLI M1b variation? M1b with Footboard > Pilot and Modernized Headlight position? A buddy of mine spotted an > M1a > and M1b at a Hobby Shop yesterday. Both locos had the Foot Board > Pilots! > The M1a had the as built front end while the M1b had what was as > mentioned above. Gary, Somebody's been swapping parts (ie. someone stole a cast pilot for their M1A) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Douglas Kirkpatrick" Subject: Re: [PRR] Future Broadway PRR Locos Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 08:36:09 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi, Guys, I just joined this list recently and am enjoying the discussion on the incredible new models but they would never fit on my (planned but not constructed yet) modest rendering of the PRR "Springfield branch" in Ohio. Is there a consensus on which are the better quality older loco's, e.g. K4s, etc? In high-quality plastic rather than brass? To be run on a DCC system? With good sound? In my neck of the woods (Oregon) the hobby shops mostly sell Southern Pacific stuff and PRR equipement is rare... Thanks for your input and opinions. Doug Kirkpatrick Medford, OR kirkpat@charter.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 12:13:13 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Guys, John sent me some better photos of the car. For me they nail it as an F22. It even still has the chains for connecting adjacent cars! Here are the links to the photos... 3/4 close up shot of the end: http://prr.railfan.net/photos/submitted/IATR30_plow_001_JohnRichards.jpg 3/4 view: http://prr.railfan.net/photos/submitted/IATR30_plow_002_JohnRichards.jpg Side view: http://prr.railfan.net/photos/submitted/IATR30_plow_003_JohnRichards.jpg Closeup of truck: http://prr.railfan.net/photos/submitted/IATR30_plow_004_JohnRichards.jpg Just a note, the photos are pretty big! Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Schoenberg [mailto:robs@actel.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 12:20 PM > To: ELDEN GATWOOD; 'jconsoli'; PRR-talk > Cc: robsch@optonline.net > Subject: RE: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? > > > Jack, > > Amazing story if it's true! If the trucks are original it appears that it > would > have had to have been swiped very early on. (Pre 1932) Rationale for this > thought... > The classification of trucks document, 70003-B (at > http://prr.railfan.net/trucks/D70003-B.pdf) > from 1923 shows the F22&F23's built before 3/16/1915 as having > 2E1F1 trucks > which > match up pretty well with the trucks on the IATR car in the photo. Here's > the truck diagram: > http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=2E-F1_2E1F1- > 48003.gif > F22's and F23's built after 1915 had 2F-F1 (crown) trucks. > Jumping ahead to > the 1932 truck > classification that I have 98401-E, all F22 and F23 cars are listed as > having 2F-F2 trucks. > So for the car to still have arch bars it seems to me that it would have > been off the PRR > by 1932! Which I guess if the 15 years of storage is true isn't that far > fetched. > > Is there any chance of records of something like this still being > around at > Harrisburg or > Lewistown? ie record of a car being scrapped off-line etc... > > Rob > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Future Broadway PRR Locos Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 12:49:06 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <005e01c3ec06$2ad7a3c0$3933ba44@YOUR2D639F6292> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Doug, Welcome aboard. Other than brass, there are really only two K4s = offered. Bachmann makes a RTR plastic K4. It looks lovely and is relatively inexpensive, but can't manage to pull its own tender up any kind of = grade. The other option is Bowser. Bower's locos are most often available in = kit form. They will take time to build. This is NOT a plastic kit. It is screwdriver, super glue, and paint assembly. With added detail = available from Cal Scale and others it can make up into a beautiful loco, and you = will get a hernia trying to lift all the cars a Bowser K4 can pull up a hill! Mine regularly pull 17 heavyweight cars up a curving two percent grade. They easily outpull my BLI M1 and T1. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Douglas Kirkpatrick Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 11:36 AM To: Bruce Smith; PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] Future Broadway PRR Locos Hi, Guys, I just joined this list recently and am enjoying the discussion on the incredible new models but they would never fit on my (planned but not constructed yet) modest rendering of the PRR "Springfield branch" in = Ohio. Is there a consensus on which are the better quality older loco's, e.g. = K4s, etc? In high-quality plastic rather than brass? To be run on a DCC = system? With good sound? In my neck of the woods (Oregon) the hobby shops mostly sell Southern Pacific stuff and PRR equipement is rare... Thanks for your input and opinions. Doug Kirkpatrick Medford, OR kirkpat@charter.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 11:52:55 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] HO Plastic PRR Steamers From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 10:36 AM, Douglas Kirkpatrick wrote: > Hi, Guys, > > I just joined this list recently and am enjoying the discussion on the > incredible new models but they would never fit on my (planned but not > constructed yet) modest rendering of the PRR "Springfield branch" in > Ohio. > Is there a consensus on which are the better quality older loco's, > e.g. K4s, > etc? In high-quality plastic rather than brass? To be run on a DCC > system? > With good sound? Yes, there is a consensus. There are NONE. No PRR steamers are available w/dcc OR sound in HO except BLI's. So barring an announcement that BLI will do the rest of the PRR steam fleet in the next year, you'll need to look at doing a bit of "fiddly" work...(some of us call it modeling !) For your layout, you will probably want the H10 2-8-0, only available from Bowser and in Brass as well as perhaps the smaller H6 (brass only). The Sunset brass H8, H9 and H10 are relatively inexpensive ($250 on eBay) and make nice starting points for improvements. Bowser and Sunset locos can be adapted to DCC with the Soundtraxx chip for the British tank engine, which is said to be quite close to the PRR banshee whistle for freight locos. The Bowser will also need a new motor. You can consider the N-scale Soundtraxx decoders for really small installations like A5 and B6 switchers. The K4s is available from Bowser, from Botchamn (aka Bachman) in plastic and in brass. The Botchman loco is "DCC ready", but Soundtraxx has never done a plug and play decoder for that loco. The tender space is very awkward for a regular Soundtraxx decoder and beside, Souundtraxx doesn't offer a K4 sound. In fact, Soundtraxx did offer a K4 at one point, but it was apparently quite poor. They did it as a "custom" job and the recording was not to their standards. The Botchman Spectrum K4 has been released in several versions. The original could not pull its tender's shadow. The 2nd and 3rd releases have been improved, but still lack in the pulling department. Finally, the tender chosen is a 110P70, a tender for a hand fired K4s, and while 2 or 3 modelers might find that tender useful, it is wrong for the vast majority of us... An alternative to the K4s would be the E6. These are available in plastic from MDC, but the metal Bowser or brass are better stating points. Note that the MDC tender is perfect...I'll be proposing a Bowser E6 project for the PRR PRojects group after we finish the R50B and X29 projects. The ex N&W Y-3 mallets, PRR class HH1 were release a few years back by LifeLike P2K, and IMHO still hold the prize for the nicest level of detail in a plastic PRR steamer. They were based in Columbus Oh from 1944(5) through scrapping in 1948. DCC sound for these can be obtained from Soundtraxx and although it isn't precisely the right engine (use their N&W class A) and it isn't plug and play, it works well. BTW, for those moaning about BLI's cost, or lack of detail, the total cost of a P2K HH1 + sound is $450-500, SO GET OVER IT! If you want a bit heavier power, like an I1 or L1, you're pretty much looking at Bowser or brass. Two "oddball" engines have come out for PRR in plastic. The Athearn USRA Mike (2-8-2) is PRR class L2, a predominantly "Lines West" class that was quickly reduced to 5 locos after their forced purchase. Also from USRA is the B26 (0-6-0) for which you can use the LL P2K USRA 0-6-0 but once again, this is a relatively rare loco. In addition, both of these locos have the disadvantage of lacking the PRR "look". For a small layout, you want locos that SCREAM "PENNSY" and nothing does that like an H10 with a Lines West tender and an N6B cabin...(or N2s 2-10-2s, but now we're talking only brass...) QSI supplies the DC/DCC and sound components to Broadway for their locomotives, but does not sell components directly, so you cannot use their systems in locos other than those they were purchased with...they are considering opening this market, but I wouldn't count on it any time soon. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] HO Plastic PRR Steamers Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 13:25:25 -0500 From: Bruce Smith [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu] Subject: Re: [PRR] HO Plastic PRR Steamers RE: [PRR] HO Plastic PRR Steamers

What about sound from Dallee electronics.  They = allegedly have chips that connect to a dcc decoder to give real PRR = sounds. There usually at Springfield and was thinking of buying = one.

Chris Chany


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Smith [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 12:53 PM
To: Douglas Kirkpatrick
Cc: PRR-Talk
Subject: Re: [PRR] HO Plastic PRR Steamers



On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 10:36 AM, Douglas = Kirkpatrick wrote:

> Hi, Guys,
>
> I just joined this list recently and am = enjoying the discussion on the
> incredible new models but they would never fit = on my (planned but not
> constructed yet) modest rendering of the PRR = "Springfield branch" in
> Ohio.
> Is there a consensus on which are the better = quality older loco's,
> e.g. K4s,
> etc? In high-quality plastic rather than brass? = To be run on a DCC
> system?
> With good sound?

Yes, there is a consensus.  There are = NONE.  No PRR steamers are
available w/dcc OR sound in HO except BLI's.  = So barring an
announcement that BLI will do the rest of the PRR = steam fleet in the
next year, you'll need to look at doing a bit of = "fiddly" work...(some
of us call it modeling <VBG>!)

For your layout, you will probably want the H10 = 2-8-0, only available
from Bowser and in Brass as well as perhaps the = smaller H6 (brass
only).  The Sunset brass H8, H9 and H10 are = relatively inexpensive
($250 on eBay) and make nice starting points for = improvements. Bowser
and Sunset locos can be adapted to DCC with the = Soundtraxx chip for the
British tank engine, which is said to be quite close = to the PRR banshee
whistle for freight locos.  The Bowser will = also need a new motor.  You
can consider the N-scale Soundtraxx decoders for = really small
installations like A5 and B6 switchers.

The K4s is available from Bowser, from Botchamn (aka = Bachman) in
plastic and in brass.  The Botchman loco is = "DCC ready", but Soundtraxx
has never done a plug and play decoder for that = loco.  The tender space
is very awkward for a regular Soundtraxx decoder and = beside,
Souundtraxx doesn't offer a K4 sound.  In fact, = Soundtraxx did offer a
K4 at one point, but it was apparently quite = poor.  They did it as a
"custom" job and the recording was not to = their standards.  The
Botchman Spectrum K4 has been released in several = versions.  The
original could not pull its tender's shadow.  = The 2nd and 3rd releases
have been improved, but still lack in the pulling = department.  Finally,
the tender chosen is a 110P70, a tender for a hand = fired K4s, and while
2 or 3 modelers might find that tender useful, it is = wrong for the vast
majority of us...

An alternative to the K4s would be the E6.  = These are available in
plastic from MDC, but the metal Bowser or brass are = better stating
points.  Note that the MDC tender is = perfect...I'll be proposing a
Bowser E6 project for the PRR PRojects group after = we finish the R50B
and X29 projects.

The ex N&W Y-3 mallets, PRR class HH1 were = release a few years back by
LifeLike P2K, and IMHO still hold the prize for the = nicest level of
detail in a plastic PRR steamer.  They were = based in Columbus Oh from
1944(5) through scrapping in 1948.  DCC sound = for these can be obtained
from Soundtraxx and although it isn't precisely the = right engine (use
their N&W class A) and it isn't plug and play, = it works well.  BTW, for
those moaning about BLI's cost, or lack of detail, = the total cost of a
P2K HH1 + sound is $450-500, SO GET OVER IT!

If you want a bit heavier power, like an I1 or L1, = you're pretty much
looking at Bowser or brass.

Two "oddball" engines have come out for PRR = in plastic.  The Athearn
USRA Mike (2-8-2) is PRR class L2, a predominantly = "Lines West" class
that was quickly reduced to 5 locos after their = forced purchase.  Also
from USRA is the B26 (0-6-0) for which you can use = the LL P2K USRA
0-6-0 but once again, this is a relatively rare = loco.  In addition,
both of these locos have the disadvantage of lacking = the PRR "look". 
For a small layout, you want locos that SCREAM = "PENNSY" and nothing
does that like an H10 with a Lines West tender and = an N6B cabin...(or
N2s 2-10-2s, but now we're talking only = brass...)

QSI supplies the DC/DCC and sound components to = Broadway for their
locomotives, but does not sell components directly, = so you cannot use
their systems in locos other than those they were = purchased with...they
are considering opening this market, but I wouldn't = count on it any
time soon.

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to = be happy" - Benjamin
Franklin
          &nb= sp;           &nb= sp;     __
          &nb= sp;           &nb= sp;    /  \
   = __<+--+>________________\__/___   = ________________________________
  |- ______/ = O        O \_______ -| | __  = __  __  __  __  __  __  __ |
  | / 4999  PENNSYLVANIA   4999 = \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
  = |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________|
  | O--O     \0  = 0  0  0/    O--O |   = 0-0-0           &= nbsp;        0-0-0


---------------------------------------------------------------= --------
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C3EC15.6C4C1660-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Springfield,Ma. Show Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 14:35:02 -0500 I look forward to seeing LOTS of PRR fanatics at 2 PM in the main bldg = at the left end of the grandstand. I will be wearing a (subtle) keystone collar pin. =20 regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Fred in = Vt. Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 11:01 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Springfield,Ma. Show Fellow SPF's Springfied show is 10 days away. Other than the local = faithful, is anyone from afar planning to attend? This is a fine opportunity to = divest the instant refurnd from your tax preparer; or that holiday cash that = came in the cards! For those who may not have been up this way as yet, consider it as = a possibility. One of the Amherst folk claims this show is 22% larger than last year, with more manufacturers on hand. Make that list of questions = now. Paul Ziesmer is the point man for a group of NE-SPF's who are = trying to promote interest in a NE chapter of the Society; we will be = congregating in the main hall at 2pm. Why not stop by, and meet the local crew. See y'all there---------Fred in Vt ------=_NextPart_000_007C_01C3EBF5.3D710DC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Message
I look=20 forward to seeing LOTS of PRR fanatics at 2 PM in the main bldg at the = left end=20 of the grandstand.  I will be wearing a (subtle) keystone collar=20 pin.
 
regards,
Andy Miller
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Fred = in=20 Vt.
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 11:01 PM
To: = PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] Springfield,Ma.=20 Show

Fellow SPF's
          &nbs= p; =20 Springfied show is 10 days away. Other than the local faithful, is = anyone from=20 afar planning to attend? This is a fine opportunity to divest the = instant=20 refurnd from your tax preparer; or that holiday cash that came in the=20 cards!
      For = those who may=20 not have been up this way as yet, consider it as a possibility. One of = the=20 Amherst folk claims this show is 22% larger than last year, with more=20 manufacturers on hand. Make that list of questions now.
       = Paul Ziesmer=20 is the point man for a group of NE-SPF's who are trying to promote = interest in=20 a NE chapter of the Society; we will be congregating in the main hall = at=20 2pm.
Why not stop by, and meet the local=20 crew.
          &nbs= p;            = ;     =20 See y'all there---------Fred in = Vt
------=_NextPart_000_007C_01C3EBF5.3D710DC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Plastic air hose Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 14:37:53 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, Does anyone have a supplier of the plastic air hose used on most brass models? The hose I would want is approximately .060 O D x .030 ID. I would buy at least a few feet of it. Thanks, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com www.pennsysmodels.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Bachman K4 Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 19:52:44 +0000 From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: RE: [PRR] Lardner's Point Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 18:14:42 -0500 Well! That might explain the very unique taste of Philly water. (Very Big Grin) -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Smith Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 9:59 AM To: Frank E. Labor Cc: 'PRR-Talk LIST' Subject: Re: [PRR] Lardner's Point On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 12:55 AM, Frank E. Labor wrote: Speaking of old coal facilities, my great grandfather ran coal barges up and down the Delaware River. Can any one tell me where Lardner's Point is? I understand that this is where they unloaded the barges. Any e/w street names would be appreciated. Thanx Frank Frank, Repeat after me ...I LOVE GOOGLE! A quick GOOGLE search hit the following page: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~wdstock/pumping.htm Here it says (with lovely photo illustrations): "Lardner's Point Pumping Station was initially known as The Frankford Pumping Station. " and "An 1877 engineer's sketch showing the route of the 30" water main running from the new Lardner's Point Pumping Station, up Robbins Ave. then south on State Rd., then north on the line of Devereaux St. to the Wentz Farm Reservoir north of Comly St. and Second St. Pike. The water main crossed Wissinoming Creek on a 1002' trestle supported by piles. See below. The first water pumped by the Pumping Station reached the reservoir on December 10, 1877. " and "In 1907, The Lardner's Point Pumping Station burned 17,400 tons of coal to pump 15 billion gallons to water users in Philadelphia. " So, the coal was used to pump Delaware River water to use in Philadelphia... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C3EC13.ED3122E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

Well! That might explain the very = unique taste of Philly water. (Very Big Grin)

 

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf = Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Thursday, February = 05, 2004 9:59 AM
To: Frank E. Labor
Cc: 'PRR-Talk LIST'
Subject: Re: [PRR] = Lardner's Point

 


On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 12:55 AM, Frank E. Labor = wrote:

Speaking of old coal facilities, my great = grandfather ran coal barges up and
down the Delaware River. Can any one tell me where Lardner's Point is? = I
understand that this is where they unloaded the barges. Any e/w = street
names would be appreciated. Thanx
Frank


Frank,

Repeat after me <G>...I LOVE GOOGLE! A quick GOOGLE search hit the following page:
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~wdstock/pumping.htm

Here it says (with lovely photo illustrations):
"Lardner's Point Pumping Station was initially known as The Frankford Pumping Station. "
and
"An 1877 engineer's sketch showing = the route of the 30" water main running from the new Lardner's Point = Pumping Station, up Robbins Ave. then south on State Rd., then north on the line = of Devereaux St. to the Wentz Farm Reservoir north of Comly St. and Second = St. Pike.  The water main crossed Wissinoming Creek on a 1002' trestle supported by piles.  See below.  The first water pumped by the Pumping Station reached the reservoir on December 10, 1877. = "
and
"In 1907, The Lardner's Point = Pumping Station burned 17,400 tons of coal to pump 15 billion gallons to water = users in Philadelphia. "

So, the coal was used to pump Delaware River water to use in = Philadelphia...

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - = Benjamin Franklin
__
/ \
__<+--+>________________\__/___ = ________________________________
|- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________\|_|________________________________|
| O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C3EC13.ED3122E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] air hose part 2 Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 18:17:12 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, Thanks to those who have replied. I should have mentioned that purpose of the hose I am looking for. I need the small black hose that is used between the train pipe valve and air hose end/quick disconnect. Again, it is approximately .060 O D x .030 ID. Many brass models have this hose. I am out and need more. Thanks, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com www.pennsysmodels.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "George Rudy" Subject: [PRR] Proto 2000 2-8-8-2? Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 17:30:29 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner-VirusCheck: Found to be clean Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Recently on Ebay I saw a listing for a Proto 2000 heritage PRR 2-8-8-2 . Did the PRR ever use a 2-8-8-2? If so when? Any body have any experience with the Proto 2000? George Rudy New Bloomfield, Pa. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 17:40:49 -0600 From: Randy Subject: [PRR] Madison WI Train Show Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:47:23 -0600 From: Chuck Bowman Subject: [PRR] T1 at Wilkinsburg From: "Bennett Levin" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Coal Houses circa 1900 Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 14:48:14 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Lardner's Point is directly under the south side of the Tacony Bridge. The pumping station is still there. It is just south of Levick Street east of State Road and was the terminus of Lardner Street. In the 1950's Blumberg had a steel scrapping operation adjacent to the pumping station where the mausoleum is now located that scrapped PRR switch engines. Bennett ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank E. Labor" To: "'David Wartell'" ; "'PRR-Talk LIST'" Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 10:55 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Coal Houses circa 1900 > Speaking of old coal facilities, my great grandfather ran coal barges up and > down the Delaware River. Can any one tell me where Lardner's Point is? I > understand that this is where they unloaded the barges. Any e/w street > names would be appreciated. Thanx > Frank > > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of David > Wartell > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 12:45 > To: PRR-Talk LIST > Subject: [PRR] PRR Coal Houses circa 1900 > > List, > > As I am getting closer to having my layout in running condition, I will > be having some questions for the list. I am modelling the Newtown > Square branch of the PRR around 1900 when it was known as the > Philadelphia and Delaware County Railroad. As I go over the CT 1000's I > have access to, I notice that there entries for 2 coal houses on the > branch. One at mile post 8.9 (Llanarch) and one at milepost 15.3 > (Newtown Square). I am assuming these are there to refuel the engines > if needed. Does any one have a description, picture or drawing of a > turn of the century coal house they are willing to share? > > > Dave Wartell > djwartel@comcast.net > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RBurg74133@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 17:54:43 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] dormatory cars- Not Only The BROADWAY!! All PRR twin unit diners had dormitory space in the kitchen car except the twin unit diners on the Congressional which included a bar lounge in the kitchen car. There were a total of 16 kitchen/dorms built by BUDD, ACF and ALTOONA CAR SHOPS The cars included 6 triple bunks and a room for the steward plus showers and lavatory facilities. Ray Burghart SPF -------------------------------1076021682 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
All PRR twin unit diners had dormitory space in the kitchen car except=20= the=20 twin unit diners on the Congressional which included a bar lounge in the kit= chen=20 car. There were a total of 16 kitchen/dorms built by BUDD, ACF and ALTOONA C= AR=20 SHOPS The cars included 6  triple bunks and a room for the steward plus= =20 showers and lavatory facilities.
 
Ray Burghart SPF
 -------------------------------1076021682-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "J. Smith" Subject: [PRR] Z74 business cars Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 17:10:48 -0500 I am interested in knowing if all of the Z74 business cars had their 6 = wheel trucks replaced with 4 wheel trucks. Assuming that they all had 6 = wheel trucks to begin with. Would there have been any other = modifications done to these cars other than trucks?=20 I am particularly interested in car #7507 which was named Maryland. My = plan is to convert my Bachmann prewar car into a c1950 version. Thanks, Jeff Smith ------=_NextPart_000_00D0_01C3EC0B.002891C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
I am interested in knowing if all of = the Z74=20 business cars had their 6 wheel trucks replaced with 4 wheel = trucks. =20 Assuming that they all had 6 wheel trucks to begin with.   = Would there=20 have been any other modifications done to these cars other than trucks?=20
 
I am particularly interested in car = #7507 which was=20 named Maryland.  My plan is to convert my Bachmann prewar car into = a c1950=20 version.
 
 
Thanks,
 
Jeff Smith
------=_NextPart_000_00D0_01C3EC0B.002891C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 22:19:37 EST Subject: [PRR] Springfield Branch -- Springfield to Xenia Ohio In a message dated 2/5/04 2:40:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: [PRR] Future Broadway PRR Locos > From: "Douglas Kirkpatrick" > Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 08:36:09 -0800 > > Hi, Guys, > > I just joined this list recently and am enjoying the discussion on the > incredible new models but they would never fit on my (planned but not > constructed yet) modest rendering of the PRR "Springfield branch" in Ohio. > Is there a consensus on which are the better quality older loco's, e.g. K4s, > etc? In high-quality plastic rather than brass? To be run on a DCC system? > With good sound? > > In my neck of the woods (Oregon) the hobby shops mostly sell Southern > Pacific stuff and PRR equipement is rare... > > Thanks for your input and opinions. > > Doug Kirkpatrick > Hi Doug, Yes, it's exciting -- of course, some days I wonder if PRR-Talk should be named BLI-Talk. But I believe the new arrivals are a big plus to Pennsy modeling in general; they're good for us even if our specific layout can't use them, because they will influence more interest in modeling Pennsy. Not sure of your era, but the Springfield Branch's motive power could be problematical. Also, your target roster will be affected a lot by whether you also model mainline movements at Xenia (as Jim Kendig is in N and I will in HO). Like Cincinnati, Xenia's passenger power went from K2's in the Thirties to K4's in the Forties, with T1's showing up 1947-1950 or so. There was also a doodlebug on the Branch, years unknown. Freight power at Xenia was locals (H6, H8). The Branch probably got the H6sb's, with their lighter axle loadings. Mainline power probably included the usual suspects, although I have no photo evidence of J1's. It helps that you can actually add the locally distinctive N2's and L2's (the five were based in Cincinnati). But the curve at the Xenia end of the Branch alone would have kept anything long-wheelbase from trying for Springfield. Adding insult to injury, the whole Western Region was the poster child for early total dieselization. Steam may have been gone from Xenia as early as 1953. This leaves the Branch operating with one or more Fairbanks-Morse H10-44 switchers, which Walthers offered several years ago (although I may have exhausted the supply). The F-M's were picturesque (I barely remember them), but you have to love them to be able to stomache this period of operation. Thank goodness the Walthers models are heavy and run like tops. Believe a bridge deterioration close to Xenia caused the Springfield Branch to be worked out of Springfield (over New York Central trackage) after 1966. I'm cross-posting this to PennsyWest, where others may be able to add or to correct the above. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_108.2b866c81.2d5461c9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 2/5/04 2:40:34 P= M Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:


Subject: Re: [PRR] Future Broad= way PRR Locos
From: "Douglas Kirkpatrick" <kirkpat@Charter.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 08:36:09 -0800

Hi, Guys,

I just joined this list recently and am enjoying the discussion on the
incredible new models but they would never fit on my (planned but not
constructed yet) modest rendering of the PRR "Springfield branch" in Ohio. Is there a consensus on which are the better quality older loco's, e.g. K4s,=
etc? In high-quality plastic rather than brass? To be run on a DCC system? With good sound?

In my neck of the woods (Oregon) the hobby shops mostly sell Southern
Pacific stuff and PRR equipement is rare...

Thanks for your input and opinions.

Doug Kirkpatrick


Hi Doug,

Yes, it's exciting -- of course, some days I wonder if PRR-Talk should be na= med BLI-Talk.  But I believe the new arrivals are a big plus to Pennsy=20= modeling in general; they're good for us even if our specific layout can't u= se them, because they will influence more interest in modeling Pennsy.

Not sure of your era, but the Springfield Branch's motive power could be pro= blematical.  Also, your target roster will be affected a lot by whether= you also model mainline movements at Xenia (as Jim Kendig is in N and I wil= l in HO).  Like Cincinnati, Xenia's passenger power went from K2's in t= he Thirties to K4's in the Forties, with T1's showing up 1947-1950 or so.&nb= sp; There was also a doodlebug on the Branch, years unknown.

Freight power at Xenia was locals (H6, H8).  The Branch probably got th= e H6sb's, with their lighter axle loadings.  Mainline power probably in= cluded the usual suspects, although I have no photo evidence of J1's. =20= It helps that you can actually add the locally distinctive N2's  and L2= 's (the five were based in Cincinnati).  But the curve at the Xenia end= of the Branch alone would have kept anything long-wheelbase from trying for= Springfield.

Adding insult to injury, the whole Western Region was the poster child for e= arly total dieselization.  Steam may have been gone from Xenia as early= as 1953.  This leaves the Branch operating with one or more Fairbanks-= Morse H10-44 switchers, which Walthers offered several years ago (although I= may have exhausted the supply).  The F-M's were picturesque (I barely=20= remember them), but you have to love them to be able to stomache this period= of operation.  Thank goodness the Walthers models are heavy and run li= ke tops.

Believe a bridge deterioration close to Xenia caused the Springfield Branch=20= to be worked out of Springfield (over New York Central trackage) after 1966.=

I'm cross-posting this to PennsyWest, where others may be able to add or to=20= correct the above.

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_108.2b866c81.2d5461c9_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Douglas Kirkpatrick" Subject: Re: [PRR] Future Broadway PRR Locos Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 22:24:34 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Greg, Thanks. I am a member of PRRT&HS but haven't checked out the Keystone Modeler yet. I'll look for it. In the meantime I opened up an old K4 model kit I bought in 1986 (!) from Bowser. It looks like it's made of cast iron! Is this too old to convert to DCC? Thanks to everyone for your help and suggestions. I'm looking forward to all of this..... Doug Kirkpatrick Medford, OR ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 7:15 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Future Broadway PRR Locos > Doug Kirkpatrick [a newcomer]writes: > > > Hi, Guys, > > > > I just joined this list recently and am enjoying the discussion on the incredible new models but they would never fit on my (planned but not constructed yet) modest rendering of the PRR "Springfield branch" in Ohio. Is there a consensus on which are the better quality older loco's, e.g. K4s, etc? In high-quality plastic rather than brass? To be run on a DCC system? With good sound? > > > In my neck of the woods (Oregon)the hobby shops mostly sell Southern Pacific stuff and PRR equipment is rare... > > > Thanks for your input and opinions. > > > Doug Kirkpatrick > > Medford, OR > > kirkpat@charter.net > > Doug, > > Isn't living in the PNW just great! Seems like all you can find up here is Green, Orange, Red and Gray! > > Just in case you didn't catch the message from earlier, there have been several fine articles written on upgrading some of the available older "kit" steam locomotives from Bowser and one notable article that was written on the Bachmann K4 that comes to mind. If you need to know where they were written just let the group know and we will help you find them... Ben Homm is quick at this... 3^) I think you will find us to be a helpful group and welcome aboard... Has anyone mentioned, that we as Pennsy Modelers, have our own ONLINE magazine? It's THE KEYSTONE MODELER and our next issue is due out at this Friday as a matter of fact. Are you a member of the PRRT&HS? IF NOT I can't think of a better time to become a member...! {some might say a shameless promo...} > > Greg Martin > Salem, OR > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harry Fitch" Subject: [PRR] BLI M1b Reset & Such Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 22:54:42 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Return-Path: prrk4s@msn.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Feb 2004 03:54:44.0542 (UTC) FILETIME=[F4DB8DE0:01C3EC64] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: To the list at large and especially those interested in the BLI M1a/M1b Add one more BLI M1b to the list of those with no response out of the box. I had to do several "remove the jumper" resets to get the loco to respond. Thanks to the tips published on this talk list it was not as painful as it could have been. For one thing the instructions insist that their are "no screws" in the tender shell. WRONG! I defended my decision not to pry the shell off to "Jobs Comforters" at the Club due to the screws that only hold "decoder board components on" because of tips first seen here at PRR-Talk! I also had to get the loco back in the box and away from "well meaning hands" at the model rail club while it was still in warranty. At home and in private with my own NCE system and a DC system I got a chance to Un Program what the next best thing to working by yourself friends had done. End results. After reset and operation on DC. It did program on the programming track with the NCE DCC system. It took a long address very well. I was also able to program the sound system volume level "on the main" at will with CV 49 = 0 and CV51 = (value 1 - 127). I settled on a value of 60 for CV 51 with good volume results. It is interesting to hear the decoder sound system "talk" to you confirming the programming. Color. My Rutland or GN Mountain looked better in mixed lighting at the club layout. At home I see more incandescent lighting and I am right back to Rutland or GN Green. This loco definitely will benefit from some TLC such as painting the blatantly shiny pilot wheels and rods and adding weathering to taste. (Gary Mittners looks good already) The BLI M1b loco is a nice value for what it is but I have a GEM-Olympia H10s that will pull it backwards! (no it is not stock and perhaps not fair, but that is the advantage of brass. Yes Virginia, Gems do indeed run!) Harry Fitch prrk4s@msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 22:15:55 -0500 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Future Broadway PRR Locos Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Doug Kirkpatrick [a newcomer]writes: > Hi, Guys, > > I just joined this list recently and am enjoying the discussion on the incredible new models but they would never fit on my (planned but not constructed yet) modest rendering of the PRR "Springfield branch" in Ohio. Is there a consensus on which are the better quality older loco's, e.g. K4s, etc? In high-quality plastic rather than brass? To be run on a DCC system? With good sound? > In my neck of the woods (Oregon)the hobby shops mostly sell Southern Pacific stuff and PRR equipment is rare... > Thanks for your input and opinions. > Doug Kirkpatrick > Medford, OR > kirkpat@charter.net Doug, Isn't living in the PNW just great! Seems like all you can find up here is Green, Orange, Red and Gray! Just in case you didn't catch the message from earlier, there have been several fine articles written on upgrading some of the available older "kit" steam locomotives from Bowser and one notable article that was written on the Bachmann K4 that comes to mind. If you need to know where they were written just let the group know and we will help you find them... Ben Homm is quick at this... 3^) I think you will find us to be a helpful group and welcome aboard... Has anyone mentioned, that we as Pennsy Modelers, have our own ONLINE magazine? It's THE KEYSTONE MODELER and our next issue is due out at this Friday as a matter of fact. Are you a member of the PRRT&HS? IF NOT I can't think of a better time to become a member...! {some might say a shameless promo...} Greg Martin Salem, OR ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 20:48:23 -0500 From: dave pierson Subject: Re: [PRR] Springfield,Ma. Show Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I'll be with the Assabet Mills RR Club layiout. Or Shopping. Hmmmm. Mayhap pack my PORR Anniversary Sweatshirt... 8)>> best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] Proto 2000 2-8-8-2? Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 21:05:41 -0500 To: "George Rudy" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Feb 5, 2004, at 5:30 PM, George Rudy wrote: > Recently on Ebay I saw a listing for a Proto 2000 heritage PRR 2-8-8-2 > . Did > the PRR ever use a 2-8-8-2? If so when? Any body have any experience > with > the Proto 2000? > George Rudy > New Bloomfield, Pa. These are accurate. The PRR did not build them. They bought them from the N&W during WWII when they needed more motive power. The PRR called them class HH-1. They were scrapped by 1949. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 21:09:02 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Proto 2000 2-8-8-2? From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: > Recently on Ebay I saw a listing for a Proto 2000 heritage PRR 2-8-8-2 . > Did > the PRR ever use a 2-8-8-2? If so when? Any body have any experience with > the Proto 2000? > George Rudy George, As I noted earlier today, the LL P2K model is of the N&W Y-3. In 1943, five Y-3s were "purchased" by the PRR to help with wartime traffic loads. These were classified HH1 (meaning 2 H class, or 2-8-0 engines under one boiler). The 5 locos got quick facelifts, including keystone number plates and PRR builders plates and began to work out of Enola. Mostly, they were used on the line to Hagerstown. Within 2 years they were transferred to Columbus Ohio and only lasted another 3 years or so there (1948) before they were scrapped. The tenders from these locos ended up behind I1 2-10-0s. LifeLike has released the model in both HO and N scale. The LifeLike models are arguably the nicest palstic PRR steamers ever made, although it does have one major oops...they left off the doghouse! #373 is lettered as it would have been in Enola, and has a Y-5 front end. #376 is lettered for service at Columbus and has a Y-3 front end. Note that in HO, P2K release 2 different tenders. The factory painted locos should come with the slightly larger "fishbelly" side sill tender which is accurate for all of the locos sold to PRR. Some folks whine that the HO HH1 doesn't pull as much as it should, but in reality, it seems to be pretty close to what the prototype could pull! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 07:47:36 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Future Broadway PRR Locos From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 12:24 AM, Douglas Kirkpatrick wrote: > Greg, > > Thanks. I am a member of PRRT&HS but haven't checked out the Keystone > Modeler yet. I'll look for it. > > In the meantime I opened up an old K4 model kit I bought in 1986 (!) > from > Bowser. It looks like it's made of cast iron! Is this too old to > convert to > DCC? Doug, Nothing is too old to convert to DCC...its just a question of how! The old Bowsers suffer from the problem that the motor is not isolated from the frame. For DCC this is an absolute must. Fortunately, now there are 2 simple solutions, both involving remotoring the model. The best, IMHO, is to buy a repower kit from Alliance (available from our listmeister at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/ as well as many others). This is a can motor with flywheel and is a "drop in solution". The second alternative is to buy or trade your old DC-71 motor for the new "DCC friendly" DC-71 motor through Bowser. The problem here is that the DC-71 has always been an amperage hog and thus you need to be very careful to get a decoder that can handle it. This becomes especially critical when the decoder has lots of functions (ie sound) that start to eat up amps as well... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] T1 at Wilkinsburg Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 08:44:19 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] T1 at Wilkinsburg Thread-Index: AcPsRAh+6cbfnQodTQ+2ASpGG61pmwAe4D9w From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: "Chuck Bowman" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Feb 2004 14:44:20.0252 (UTC) FILETIME=[B430EDC0:01C3ECBF] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Is not train #54 the Gotham Limited, which would not be a commuter train? -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Bowman [mailto:bowman@spindletop.tamu.edu] Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 3:47 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] T1 at Wilkinsburg There is a photo of a T1 at Wilkinsburg, possibly the one referred to=20 yesterday, in the Phillip Hastings book "Portrait of the Pennsylvania=20 Railroad" on page 69. Its pulling train #54. chuck Lynn Ann Holleran Charles H. Bowman Lah Lah Farm 13350 Hopes Creek Road College Station TX 77845-9250 Phone 979-690-7095 Fax 979-690-8069 Cell 979-587-1386 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harry Fitch" Subject: [PRR] PRR N2s is available in HO Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 09:01:34 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Return-Path: prrk4s@msn.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Feb 2004 14:01:37.0904 (UTC) FILETIME=[BCE9A700:01C3ECB9] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: PRR N2s is available in HO kit form but not the N2sa. The PRR N2s is available in HO without buying brass through the efforts of Bowser and their USRA 2-10-2 kit. It is the PRR N2sa that is not available outside of brass or a fancy kitbash or scratch. The N2sa is the USRA 2-10-2 after the Company re-boilered the N2s class with belpair boilers. Alas, forget the N1s in anything outside of brass. I am sure that panhandle modelers would scoop these up if either or both were available in less expensive forms. If the compromise was inexpensive enough I think that the N's would find their way east on Model Pikes :) I know at least one would to keep company with my other prairie schooner tender equipped engines. For those with better memories than mine, didn't someone make a boiler conversion to make an N2sa 2-10-2? Harry Fitch prrk4s@msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Improving the Bachmann K4 (was Future Broadway PRR Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:10:52 +0000 From: "Jerry Breon" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR N2s is available in HO Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 10:21:13 -0500 Harry Fitch wrote: "For those with better memories than mine, didn't someone make a boiler conversion to make an N2sa 2-10-2?" Harry, I can't comment on the N2sa, but I do recall that Cary Locomotive Works = marketed a conversion kit (boiler, trailing truck, etc.) to convert the = Bowser 2-10-0 to a N1s 2-10-2. I built and super-detailed one of these = models for a gentleman by the name of Walt Weitzel in Shiremanstown, PA = back in the mid-1970's. I often wonder what ever became of this model = and certainly wish that I would have photographed it. Jerry Breon Birdsboro, PA ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01C3EC9A.F2C4AC40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Harry Fitch wrote:
"For those with better memories than mine, didn't someone make a=20 boiler
conversion to make an N2sa 2-10-2?"
 
Harry,
I can't comment on the N2sa, but I do recall that Cary Locomotive = Works=20 marketed a conversion kit (boiler, trailing truck, etc.) to convert the = Bowser=20 2-10-0 to a N1s 2-10-2. I built and super-detailed one of these models = for a=20 gentleman by the name of Walt Weitzel in Shiremanstown, PA back in the=20 mid-1970's. I often wonder what ever became of this model and certainly = wish=20 that I would have photographed it.
 
Jerry Breon
Birdsboro, PA
------=_NextPart_000_005D_01C3EC9A.F2C4AC40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR N2s is available in HO Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 12:03:26 -0500 >From: "Harry Fitch" >Subject: [PRR] PRR N2s is available in HO >Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 09:01:34 -0500 From: PRRTRAINS@aol.com Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 13:23:30 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR N2s is available in HO For those of you with laps memory like me, Penn Line did make the N-1 many many moons ago. I did find a unbuilt kit and have since built it. The cabin has a little to be desired but a little more detail and I feel it 's worth it. I also have the N-2sa and the N-1 in brass.They are both in the process of getting new NW motors and gearboxes and coustom painted. The Bowser 2-10-2 is the lines west model. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;& nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;& nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;& nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;& nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;& nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Bob P&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;& nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;& nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;& nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;& nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;& nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;& nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fairfield ,NJ --part1_17c.2639d149.2d5535a2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" For those of you with laps memory l= ike me, Penn Line did make the N-1 many many moons ago. I did find a unbuilt= kit and have since built it. The cabin has a little to be desired but a lit= tle more detail and I feel it 's worth it. I also have the N-2sa and the N-1= in brass.They are both in the process of getting new NW motors and gearboxe= s and coustom painted. The Bowser 2-10-2 is the lines west model.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n= bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&a= mp;nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs= p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&= ;nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;= &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n= bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&a= mp;nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs= p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&= ;nbsp; Bob P&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&= ;nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;= &nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n= bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&a= mp;nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs= p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&= ;nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;= &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n= bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&a= mp;nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs= p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&= ;nbsp; Fairfield ,NJ --part1_17c.2639d149.2d5535a2_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Can anybody help on this Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 19:05:34 +0000 From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] HO Plastic PRR Steamers Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 19:52:20 +0000 From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 15:11:56 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Can anybody help on this In a message dated 2/6/2004 2:19:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, ndbprr@att.net writes: have no idea what railroads would be involved but does anybody remember anthing about this? I'm trying to get information about a train wreck that occurred in Craigsville, PA some time in the 1960's. Craigsville is a little town on the outskirst of Worthington, PA that is no longer in existence and my friends & I are trying to get some information about when the accidents happened. All of this came about in conversation about a ceramic station sign that one of us own. If anyone knows anything about these accidents, please let me know. Craigsville is in Armstrong County, PA near Worthington. It is on the BR&P formerly B&O trackage. Perhaps they should inquire on the B&O list. Don't have any info on the wreck. Rich Orr -------------------------------1076098316 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 2/6/2004 2:19:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, ndbprr@at= t.net writes:
have no idea what railroads would be involved=20= but does anybody remember
anthing about this?

I'm trying to get i= nformation about a train wreck that occurred in
Craigsville, PA some tim= e in the 1960's. Craigsville is a little town on the
outskirst of Worthi= ngton, PA that is no longer in existence and my friends &
I are tryi= ng to get some information about when the accidents happened. All
of thi= s came about in conversation about a ceramic station sign that one of
us= own. If anyone knows anything about these accidents, please let me know.
Craigsville is in Armstrong County, PA near Worthington.  It is on= the BR&P formerly B&O trackage.  Perhaps they should inquire o= n the B&O list.
 
Don't have any info on the wreck.
Rich Orr
-------------------------------1076098316-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:40:05 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR plastic X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-7 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: aurora7@juno.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I gripe all the time time about Pennsylvania Railroad steam being either unavailable in plastic, or worse, ridiculously expensive when it is available. A simple H-10, and E-6, a G-5, L-1 and K-4. for under $75 is not an unreasonable request. These are all popular mainline locos with broad appeal. Making them affordable would allow modeler to acquire enough of them to satisfy almost all Pennsy cravings. Richard Glueck ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:41:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Open the flood gates MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, Now that sound is readily available in HO for the mass market, enter Atlas with their first release with a Loco with DCC and sound. First up the Trainmasters. http://www.atlasrr.com/Images/HOLocomotives/hotrainmaster/TM-Side.jpg Features QSI sound. Now lets see. got to check the stock market to see if QSI is available to purchase. These guys have the market pretty much cornered and will be no doubt, approached by other companies wanting to offer their locos with sound and dcc as well......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: frbob@clearnet.net (Bob McKay) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR plastic Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 18:22:50 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I submit a few lifetimes and several fortunes still could not satisfy almost all Pennsy cravings! With a hundred diesels in N scale, I have yet to convert 50% to DCC, 80% to any degree of prototype detail, 100% to perfection, and still I shop for new items to fill my roster of 1965. When I was modeling further East in HO, I had a bevy of brass motors, but of course never enough, in kind or depth. It's easy to model my four track mains, but to run ALL of the equipment that traveled over them is more than I have ever wished for. At least, that's my excuse for running the same day in May over and over again. I used to buy those motors for about $79.95, but that was - oh dear! - 40 years ago. Hmmmm. Multiply times 10, and compensate for state of the art additions......... Ain't it fun?? I'm still at it! Bob McKay Susquehanna Div. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 5:40 PM Subject: [PRR] PRR plastic > I gripe all the time time about Pennsylvania Railroad steam being either > unavailable in plastic, or worse, ridiculously expensive when it is > available. A simple H-10, and E-6, a G-5, L-1 and K-4. for under $75 is > not an unreasonable request. These are all popular mainline locos with > broad appeal. Making them affordable would allow modeler to acquire > enough of them to satisfy almost all Pennsy cravings. > > Richard Glueck > > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harry Fitch" Subject: [PRR] BLI News Posting, Maintenance M1a/M1b Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 19:20:05 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Return-Path: prrk4s@msn.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Feb 2004 00:20:09.0261 (UTC) FILETIME=[250155D0:01C3ED10] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: This was posted on the BLI web site- BLI News Posting, Maintenance M1a/M1b 1/30/2004: Maintenance note about PRR M1a/b! Tender shell removal requires loosening of the two screws in the bottom-center of the tender. Harry Fitch prrk4s@msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Weekly Photo Thread Started Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 20:28:12 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: For anyone interested, I've kicked off the weekly Forum photo thread. Both models and proto welcome. http://forum.pennsyrr.com:8010/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=18 (Sorry I missed the boat last week!) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 23:05:12 -0500 From: "Richard Poole" Subject: [PRR] 210F82a TENDER PAINTING From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR N2s is available in HO Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 07:30:48 -0500 >From: "Harry Fitch" >Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR N2s is available in HO >Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 12:17:59 -0500 >From: Sam Vastano [mailto:svastano@hotmail.com] >Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR N2s is available in HO > >From: "Harry Fitch" > >Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR N2s is available in HO > >Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 12:11:52 -0500 > >From: Sam Vastano [mailto:svastano@hotmail.com] > >Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR N2s is available in HO > > >From: "Harry Fitch" > > >Subject: [PRR] PRR N2s is available in HO > > >Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 09:01:34 -0500 From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 07:36:35 EST Subject: [PRR] First without low frequency antennas? In a message dated 2/4/04 12:27:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: RE: [PRR] Renovo 66 - 67 > From: "Bill Volkmer" > Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 08:23:08 -0500 > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C3EAF8.1F12A350 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="US-ASCII" > > The radios began arriving with the SD-40s in 1964. Over the next two to > three years radios were applied to the other locos beginning with the > second generation road units, then the GP-9s and finally filtered down > to the Alco fleet. When radios were installed, the antennae were > removed. One problem -- the SD-40s were part of EMD's "1966" catalog. PRR's first and only order (6040-6104) were delivered in Feb/Mar 1966. Or is Bob Reid's Penn Central System Bi-Annual incorrect here? Perhaps you mean the GP-35's as delivered without trainphones and with the new radios. These came as early as May 1964. We're all familiar with the prominent "handrails" atop the GP-30's, which came first half of '63. I think this was about the last appearance for train phone antennae. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_12f.3b0b0b08.2d5635d3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a messa= ge dated 2/4/04 12:27:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:=


Subject: RE: [PRR] Renovo = 66 - 67
From: "Bill Volkmer" <bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 08:23:08 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=3D_NextPart_000_0025_01C3EAF8.1F12A350
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset=3D"US-ASCII"

The radios began arriving with the SD-40s in 1964.  Over the next two t= o
three years radios were applied to the other locos beginning with the
second generation road units, then the GP-9s and finally filtered down
to the Alco fleet.  When radios were installed, the antennae were
removed.


One problem -- the SD-40s were part of EMD's "1966" catalog.  PRR's fir= st and only order (6040-6104) were delivered in Feb/Mar 1966.  Or is Bo= b Reid's Penn Central System Bi-Annual incorrect here?

Perhaps you mean the GP-35's as delivered without trainphones and with the n= ew radios.  These came as early as May 1964.  We're all familiar w= ith the prominent "handrails" atop the GP-30's, which came first half of '63= .  I think this was about the last appearance for train phone antennae.=

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_12f.3b0b0b08.2d5635d3_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harry Fitch" Subject: [PRR] A good sign - "I gripe all the time" Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 07:41:27 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Return-Path: prrk4s@msn.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Feb 2004 12:41:32.0362 (UTC) FILETIME=[B6FFE2A0:01C3ED77] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The excerpt I lifted from what Richard Glueck sent to the list is a good thing. I borrowed the thought from the military. "How do you know when a GI is alive? "When he is still Griping!" How do you know when a Pennsy modeler is still alive? When he is still Griping! I myself must be very much alive :) No intelligence was used or hurt in making my comment and it was not meant to detract in any way shape or form on Richard's serious post, hwf Harry Fitch prrk4s@msn.com Subject: PRR plastic From: Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:40:05 EST "I gripe all the time" Richard Glueck ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Pattirobpatti@cs.com Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 09:04:17 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR Plastic Steam X-Mailer: CompuServe 2000 32-bit sub 107 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Another alternative for the Bachmann K4 would be to simply remove the motor and use it as a dedicated dummy engine with another K4 (or in front of a brace of E-units; see the front cover of Kalmbach's Heart of the Pennsy book). I have 3 Bachmann K4s from the original run and one burned out its motor vey early on. I removed the motor, added some weight to the tender, put on a Kadee, and parked it in front as a head end helper. (If you have mechanism binding issues, see Kris Kollar's articles in Mainline Modeler, mentioned before in this string). I got the idea from an article in Model Railroader, "How about unpowered steam locomotives? " (March 1979, page 88), by Ron Kuykendall. He un-motored an AHM SP cab forward to use as a permanent helper. Bowser also advertises a kit to replace the Bachmann mechanism. One of these days I'll have to try that (or order the parts from Bowser to convert the Bachmann K4 to an L1, either powered or as a dummy rear helper). Does anyone have experience with the Bowser mechanism kit? Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "James Lucas" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: PRR Plastic Steam Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 15:48:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Return-Path: James.Lucas@blueyonder.co.uk X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Feb 2004 15:48:19.0311 (UTC) FILETIME=[CEDC97F0:01C3ED91] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Rob. For some of us who are not in the know [g], could you expand on 'to convert the Bachmann K4 to an L1' please. Thanks James Lucas -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Pattirobpatti@cs.com Sent: 07 February 2004 14:04 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR Plastic Steam Another alternative for the Bachmann K4 would be to simply remove the motor and use it as a dedicated dummy engine with another K4 (or in front of a brace of E-units; see the front cover of Kalmbach's Heart of the Pennsy book). I have 3 Bachmann K4s from the original run and one burned out its motor vey early on. I removed the motor, added some weight to the tender, put on a Kadee, and parked it in front as a head end helper. (If you have mechanism binding issues, see Kris Kollar's articles in Mainline Modeler, mentioned before in this string). I got the idea from an article in Model Railroader, "How about unpowered steam locomotives? " (March 1979, page 88), by Ron Kuykendall. He un-motored an AHM SP cab forward to use as a permanent helper. Bowser also advertises a kit to replace the Bachmann mechanism. One of these days I'll have to try that (or order the parts from Bowser to convert the Bachmann K4 to an L1, either powered or as a dummy rear helper). Does anyone have experience with the Bowser mechanism kit? Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: PRR Plastic Steam Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 11:18:52 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] Re: PRR Plastic Steam Thread-Index: AcPthOXdABtRoEibS2CnxR717GqCEQAGXBPQ From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Feb 2004 17:18:52.0803 (UTC) FILETIME=[7579AD30:01C3ED9E] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I own a conversion kit. Like a lot of my projects, it's half done. Mechanism assembly is similar to other, totally Bowser, engines. -----Original Message----- From: Pattirobpatti@cs.com [mailto:Pattirobpatti@cs.com] Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 8:04 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR Plastic Steam Another alternative for the Bachmann K4 would be to simply remove the motor=20 and use it as a dedicated dummy engine with another K4 (or in front of a brace=20 of E-units; see the front cover of Kalmbach's Heart of the Pennsy book). I have 3 Bachmann K4s from the original run and one burned out its motor vey=20 early on. I removed the motor, added some weight to the tender, put on a=20 Kadee, and parked it in front as a head end helper. (If you have mechanism=20 binding issues, see Kris Kollar's articles in Mainline Modeler, mentioned before in=20 this string). I got the idea from an article in Model Railroader, "How about unpowered steam locomotives? " (March 1979, page 88), by Ron Kuykendall. He un-motored an=20 AHM SP cab forward to use as a permanent helper. Bowser also advertises a kit to replace the Bachmann mechanism. One of these=20 days I'll have to try that (or order the parts from Bowser to convert the=20 Bachmann K4 to an L1, either powered or as a dummy rear helper). Does anyone=20 have experience with the Bowser mechanism kit? Rob =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Digitrax Help and Question Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 14:16:59 -0500 PRR Gize: I recently converted over to DCC and am in the process of installing a = "plug n play" Digitrax decoder in an Athearn Genesis F-7 in PRR (the = Pennsy content for this post). However, I have run into a problem. It = appears that the Digitrax decoder (DH163AO, the one recommended by = Digitrax for this engine), is about 30-40% thicker than the analog board = that Athearn provided. In addition, the wire slots on the Digitrax board = are slightly wider than the Athearn counterpart. Hence, the black = plastic connector caps that Athearn provided are too small for the = Digitrax board. They cannot be insert without excessive force which = would likely damage/destroy the decoder baord. Has anyone encountered this problem? What did you do to correct it? Does = anyone sell these black plastic caps that can be fit on the Digitrax = boards? Are other decoder manufacturers like Lenz have decoder boards = that are thinner than Digitrax? Any information or advice that any of you can provide me would be = greatly appreciated. Please feel free to contact me off this board since = this really has not much to do with PRR. Ted Andrews ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C3ED85.0CD31820 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
PRR Gize:
 
I recently converted over to DCC and am in the process of = installing a=20 "plug n play" Digitrax decoder in an Athearn Genesis F-7 in PRR (the = Pennsy=20 content for this post). However, I have run into a problem. It appears = that the=20 Digitrax decoder (DH163AO, the one recommended by Digitrax for this = engine), is=20 about 30-40% thicker than the analog board that Athearn provided. In = addition,=20 the wire slots on the Digitrax board are slightly wider than the Athearn = counterpart. Hence, the black plastic connector caps that Athearn = provided are=20 too small for the Digitrax board. They cannot be insert without = excessive force=20 which would likely damage/destroy the decoder baord.
 
Has anyone encountered this problem? What did you do to correct it? = Does=20 anyone sell these black plastic caps that can be fit on the Digitrax = boards? Are=20 other decoder manufacturers like Lenz have decoder boards that are = thinner than=20 Digitrax?
 
Any information or advice that any of you can provide me would be = greatly=20 appreciated. Please feel free to contact me off this board since this = really has=20 not much to do with PRR.
 
 
Ted Andrews
 
------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C3ED85.0CD31820-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 14:55:45 -0500 From: Rail Classics Subject: [PRR] More Rail Classics N5c Versions have arrived From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] website update Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 16:38:09 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, I have made some major revisions to my website http://www.lanestrains.com I have figured out how to do all the work myself. Please give it a look. Thanks, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com http://www.pennsysmodels.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 14:08:35 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Vondruska Subject: [PRR] need Al Buchan's e-mail address Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 15:04:08 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] Repowering Bachmann K4s with Bowser chassis From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] Repowering Bachmann K4s with Bowser chassis Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 18:31:37 -0600 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Doug Kisala" > My repowered K4s can tow a dozen ECW/Bachmann P70s > around 24" curves reliably. That is interesting. I have 3 old Bachmann, 2 new ones (at least the = latter run without a lope and are plug'n'play DCC and run flawlessly through = out entire club layout). Of course they only pull four lightly weighted = cars on level track. I have hesitated fitting the Bachmann body to my Bowser K4 chassis = because I was concerned that the plastic chassis, even with some weight, might not pull much better. It may be that the Bowser chassis is balanced with = more weight over the drivers that helps it achieve that pulling power. BTW, = how much weight were you able to add to the Bachmann boiler? I actually might lose one car since I would be inclined to use the = Bowser tender, crude as it might be, because it at least resembles the tenders = I am used to seeing postwar on a PRR K4. And there is the bonus with the = Bowser chassis of having the better appearance of correct diameter = drivers---the near freight drivers on the Bachmann are one of the biggest downers to = its appearance, besides the non-stoker tender. Bob Zoeller ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C3EDA8.9EC4EBA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

-----=20 Original Message -----
From: "Doug Kisala" <dougkisala@yahoo.com>
> My repowered K4s can tow a dozen ECW/Bachmann = P70s
>=20 around 24" curves reliably.

That is interesting. I have 3 old = Bachmann, 2=20 new ones (at least the latter
run without a lope and are plug'n'play = DCC and=20 run flawlessly through out
entire club layout).  Of course they = only=20 pull four lightly weighted cars on
level track.

I have = hesitated=20 fitting the Bachmann body to my Bowser K4 chassis because I
was = concerned=20 that the plastic chassis, even with some weight, might not
pull much=20 better.  It may be that the Bowser chassis is balanced with = more
weight=20 over the drivers that helps it achieve that pulling power.  BTW,=20 how
much weight were you able to add to the Bachmann boiler?

I = actually  might lose one car since I would be inclined to use the=20 Bowser
tender, crude as it might be, because it at least resembles = the=20 tenders I am
used to seeing postwar on a PRR K4.  And there is = the bonus=20 with the Bowser
chassis of having the better appearance of correct = diameter=20 drivers---the
near freight drivers on the Bachmann are one of the = biggest=20 downers to its
appearance, besides the non-stoker tender.

Bob=20 Zoeller
------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C3EDA8.9EC4EBA0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RGortowski@aol.com Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 22:53:16 EST Subject: [PRR] Broadway Limited T1 Help I received my T1 from Jerry about a week ago and finally had a chance to run it at my friend's layout. I took it out for its maiden voyage hoping to see if it would run backward through the double-slip switches. I took it out, plugged the harness in and placed it on the track. The sound was beautiful, the headlight came on, and...nothing. The engine wouldn't move. We tried on both DCC and analog, and could not get the engine to move. My friend took it over to the programming track (Digitrack) and the error code was PG. It seems that it can't find a connection between the decoder and the motor. Does this mean the decoder is not hooked up correctly? We are at a loss to figure out what to do. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks, Rich Gortowski -------------------------------1076212396 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
I received my T1 from Jerry about a week ago and finally had a chance t= o run it at my friend's layout.  I took it out for its maiden voyage ho= ping to see if it would run backward through the double-slip switches. = I took it out, plugged the harness in and placed it on the track. The sound= was beautiful, the headlight came on, and...nothing.  The engine would= n't move.  We tried on both DCC and analog, and could not get the engin= e to move. 
 
My friend took it over to the programming track (Digitrack) and the err= or code was PG.  It seems that it can't find a connection between the d= ecoder and the motor.  Does this mean the decoder is not hooked up corr= ectly?  We are at a loss to figure out what to do.
 
Anyone have any ideas?
 
Thanks,
 
Rich Gortowski
-------------------------------1076212396-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: [PRR] C-Liner trainphone Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 23:50:03 -0500 I'd like to add the appropriate trainphone antennae to a Proto 1000 C = Liner. My Walthers catalogue is approx. 3 years old and doesn't list an = after market part. Does one exist? If not has anyone attempted to = use/convert one of the existing Cal Scale antennae stanchion sets to = accurately portray that used on the C Liner. Also, I see Detail Associates sells an etched brass fan screen set for = the C Liner. Again, has anyone applied one of these and if so how did = it come out? Lastly, I plan to accurately model the fans on the rear of the engine. = The photos in the Withers book show what's on the model is quite = different than what was on the prototype. Has anyone attempted to = modify after market parts to more closely resemble what was on the real = thing? As always, thanks allot for your help. Kris =20 One more thing. Has anyone used the paint used for R/C model car bodies = to paint the flexible handrails on Proto 2000 engines? I understand = this stuff is supposed to be extremely flexible on not chip/flake off = the handrails. What's the verdict on this stuff? ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C3EDD5.1ADFD700 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
I'd like to add the appropriate = trainphone antennae=20 to a Proto 1000 C Liner.  My Walthers catalogue is approx. 3 years = old and=20 doesn't list an after market part.  Does one exist?  If not = has anyone=20 attempted to use/convert one of the existing Cal Scale antennae = stanchion sets=20 to accurately portray that used on the C Liner.
 
Also, I see Detail Associates sells an = etched brass=20 fan screen set for the C Liner.  Again, has anyone applied one of = these and=20 if so how did it come out?
 
Lastly, I plan to accurately model the = fans on the=20 rear of the engine.  The photos in the Withers book = show what's on the=20 model is quite different than what was on the prototype.  Has = anyone=20 attempted to modify after market parts to more closely resemble = what was on=20 the real thing?
 
As always, thanks allot for your=20 help.
 
Kris 
 
One more thing.  Has anyone used = the paint=20 used for R/C model car bodies to paint the flexible handrails on Proto = 2000=20 engines?  I understand this stuff is supposed to be extremely = flexible on=20 not chip/flake off the handrails.  What's the verdict on this=20 stuff?
------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C3EDD5.1ADFD700-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RGortowski@aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 00:25:00 EST Subject: [PRR] P82R Paint Scheme The P82R coaches 4000-14 were delivered in the FOM paint scheme. The PRT&HS B&T book says "Originally painted in "Fleet of Modernism" colors, this P82R coach #4008, shows the effect of the 1950's economy programs, which included stripping paint off the stainless steel Budd-built cars." Does anyone know if these cars passed through the "standard" Tuscan post war paint scheme prior to the "economy" scheme? I also wonder about the 7 car Budd trainset for the South Wind. I seem to remember some pictures of #1126 Obs-broiler-lounge in the "standard" paint scheme. Thanks, Rich -------------------------------1076217900 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
The P82R coaches 4000-14 were delivered in the FOM paint scheme. =20= The PRT&HS B&T book says "Originally painted in "Fleet of Modernism"= colors, this P82R coach #4008, shows the effect of the 1950's economy progr= ams, which included stripping paint off the stainless steel Budd-built cars.= "  Does anyone know if these cars passed through the "standard" Tuscan=20= post war paint scheme prior to the "economy" scheme?  I also wonder abo= ut the 7 car Budd trainset for the South Wind.  I seem to remember some= pictures of #1126 Obs-broiler-lounge in the "standard" paint scheme.
 
Thanks,
 
Rich
-------------------------------1076217900-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 01:16:27 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] C-Liner trainphone Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Kris: Cal Scale makes induction antenna sets (190-498) and lift rings (190-197) for the Proto C-liners. I can't comment on the Detail Associates parts or fans. I have used the R/C paint you are talking about. It is a special paint for Lexan, but works well on the handrails. It reduces chipping, but does not eliminate it entirely. My only problem with it is that it only comes in limited colors, and the yellow is VERY bright. All colors are actually very gloss also (it's meant to show up brightly). Jeff ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] C-Liner trainphone Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 00:30:30 -0600 Hi Kris--For the antenna supports you need Calscale 190-498; you will = also need 190-497, the rear lift rings. Sorry, can't help with the fans. The paint for R/C cars is better than any other model paint on = handrails. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kris Kollar=20 To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 10:50 PM Subject: [PRR] C-Liner trainphone I'd like to add the appropriate trainphone antennae to a Proto 1000 C = Liner. My Walthers catalogue is approx. 3 years old and doesn't list an = after market part. Does one exist? If not has anyone attempted to = use/convert one of the existing Cal Scale antennae stanchion sets to = accurately portray that used on the C Liner. Also, I see Detail Associates sells an etched brass fan screen set for = the C Liner. Again, has anyone applied one of these and if so how did = it come out? Lastly, I plan to accurately model the fans on the rear of the engine. = The photos in the Withers book show what's on the model is quite = different than what was on the prototype. Has anyone attempted to = modify after market parts to more closely resemble what was on the real = thing? As always, thanks allot for your help. Kris =20 One more thing. Has anyone used the paint used for R/C model car = bodies to paint the flexible handrails on Proto 2000 engines? I = understand this stuff is supposed to be extremely flexible on not = chip/flake off the handrails. What's the verdict on this stuff? ------=_NextPart_000_0646_01C3EDDA.C1C08920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Kris--For the antenna supports you = need Calscale=20 190-498;  you will also need 190-497, the rear lift = rings.
 
Sorry, can't help with the = fans.
 
The paint for R/C cars is better than = any other=20 model paint on handrails.
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Kris = Kollar=20
Sent: Saturday, February 07, = 2004 10:50=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] C-Liner = trainphone

I'd like to add the appropriate = trainphone=20 antennae to a Proto 1000 C Liner.  My Walthers catalogue is = approx. 3=20 years old and doesn't list an after market part.  Does one = exist? =20 If not has anyone attempted to use/convert one of the existing Cal = Scale=20 antennae stanchion sets to accurately portray that used on the C=20 Liner.
 
Also, I see Detail Associates sells = an etched=20 brass fan screen set for the C Liner.  Again, has anyone applied = one of=20 these and if so how did it come out?
 
Lastly, I plan to accurately model = the fans on=20 the rear of the engine.  The photos in the Withers book = show what's=20 on the model is quite different than what was on the prototype.  = Has=20 anyone attempted to modify after market parts to more closely resemble = what was on the real thing?
 
As always, thanks allot for your = help.
 
Kris 
 
One more thing.  Has anyone used = the paint=20 used for R/C model car bodies to paint the flexible handrails on Proto = 2000=20 engines?  I understand this stuff is supposed to be extremely = flexible on=20 not chip/flake off the handrails.  What's the verdict on this=20 stuff?
------=_NextPart_000_0646_01C3EDDA.C1C08920-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: [PRR] proto modelers meet in Valley Forge Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 23:53:30 -0500 Several months back there was a string of emails that discussed an = upcoming proto modelers meet in Valley Forge. I believe it was to be = run in conjunction with an NMRA meet. Does anyone have any info on = this? I don't believe it was affiliated with the group that recently = meet in Cocoa Beach. =20 Contact me off line. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C3EDD5.967E9180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Several months back there was a string = of emails=20 that discussed an upcoming proto modelers meet in Valley Forge.  I = believe=20 it was to be run in conjunction with an NMRA meet.  Does anyone = have any=20 info on this?  I don't believe it was affiliated with the group = that=20 recently meet in Cocoa Beach. 
 
Contact me off = line.
------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C3EDD5.967E9180-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] Calling John Frantz Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 09:49:21 -0500 John Frantz, Please contact me off list at abbuchan1@comcast.net ASAP - I believe you have major problems with your company's website. Thanx. Al ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C3EE28.D3FFE010 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Message
John Frantz,
 
Please contact me off list at = abbuchan1@comcast.net ASAP - I = believe=20 you have major problems with your company's website.
 
Thanx.
 
Al
------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C3EE28.D3FFE010-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] P82R Paint Scheme Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 10:28:39 -0600 Thought I could find a coach photo, but only one I could find was of = D82br 4504. That is the car shown in FOM in the color shot in the = PRRT&HS book. Color photo from Bob's photos shows 4504 in all tuscan = with the even later keystone decal scheme. There might be a coach shot = either in Pennsy Journal or Rails Northeast old issue. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RGortowski@aol.com=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 11:25 PM Subject: [PRR] P82R Paint Scheme The P82R coaches 4000-14 were delivered in the FOM paint scheme. The = PRT&HS B&T book says "Originally painted in "Fleet of Modernism" colors, = this P82R coach #4008, shows the effect of the 1950's economy programs, = which included stripping paint off the stainless steel Budd-built cars." = Does anyone know if these cars passed through the "standard" Tuscan = post war paint scheme prior to the "economy" scheme? I also wonder = about the 7 car Budd trainset for the South Wind. I seem to remember = some pictures of #1126 Obs-broiler-lounge in the "standard" paint = scheme. Thanks, Rich ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C3EE2E.515D9660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thought I could find a coach photo, but only one I could find was = of D82br=20 4504.  That is the car shown in FOM in the color shot in the = PRRT&HS=20 book.  Color photo from Bob's photos shows 4504 in = all tuscan=20 with the even later keystone decal scheme.  There might be a coach = shot=20 either in Pennsy Journal or Rails Northeast old issue.
 
Bob Zoeller
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 RGortowski@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, February 07, = 2004 11:25=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] P82R Paint = Scheme

The P82R coaches 4000-14 were delivered in the FOM paint = scheme. =20 The PRT&HS B&T book says "Originally painted in "Fleet of = Modernism"=20 colors, this P82R coach #4008, shows the effect of the 1950's economy=20 programs, which included stripping paint off the stainless steel = Budd-built=20 cars."  Does anyone know if these cars passed through the = "standard"=20 Tuscan post war paint scheme prior to the "economy" scheme?  I = also=20 wonder about the 7 car Budd trainset for the South Wind.  I seem = to=20 remember some pictures of #1126 Obs-broiler-lounge in the "standard" = paint=20 scheme.
 
Thanks,
 
Rich
------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C3EE2E.515D9660-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:48:37 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: [PRR] Trainmasters Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hello all: As most of you probably already know, Atlas is coming out with HO scale trainmasters in PRR paint with and without sound. These would be PRR class FS24m... I was wondering if anyone could tell me how/where these locos were used by the PRR in the late 1950's. Thanks, Jeff Warner ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:51:39 -0500 From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." Subject: [PRR] Re: C-Liner trainphone Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: --On Sunday, February 8, 2004 1:10 -0500 "Kris Kollar" wrote: > I'd like to add the appropriate trainphone antennae to a Proto 1000 C = > Liner. My Walthers catalogue is approx. 3 years old and doesn't list an = > after market part. Does one exist? Yes. Walthers cat. no. 190-498 Ant Sys PRR C-Liner, $10.95 list You'll also want to install the lift rings to the top-rear of the car-body to complete the "standard" PRR look (190-497). The Antenna support set comes with a 1:1 template and dimensions in inches that take the guess work out of marking and drilling holes and cutting and bending the wire. One of the PRR listers also posted a bunch of pictures of his Brass C-Liner to show where the wire should go into the back of the carbody. I don't have the URL to hand, but it can be found by searching this list's archives. Note: the rear set of antenna supports on the prototype were mounted on the roof overhang. On the P1K carbody, that rear bulkhead is about a scale 6" thick, and I was concerned about having my drill bit making a "gopher trail" just below the outer surface of the rear bulkhead if I drilled according to the template. So I cheated and drilled that pair of holes about 1/16" forward (just inboard of the seam delineating the beginning of the overhang), which put all ACC application points inside the model carbody. 'best, Vagel Keller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:04:20 -0600 From: Randy Subject: Re: [PRR] Trainmasters From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 12:34:01 EST Subject: [PRR] P70 coach seats Assume by their short haul ratings that these cars had the walkover bench type seats? Is there a source of correct seats in HO for the straight P70 and P70fbr coaches? Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1076261640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Assume by their short haul ratings that these cars had the walkover ben= ch type seats?   Is there a source of correct seats in HO for the=20= straight P70 and P70fbr coaches?

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1076261640-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Need pictures of Williamsport in late steam era Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 13:23:39 -0500 Listers, I need pictures of Williamsport PA in the '40's and '50's (or even = '30's) for a presentation I'm putting together. I have some material, = but sure could use some more. Best scenario would be if you could = e-mail them to me as attachments. Second best would be if you could get = them scanned somewhere and e-mail them to me. I can scan photographs, = slides, and negatives, but if we can avoid sending pictures, especially = negatives and slides through the mail, that would be far preferable. I = would, of course, be willing to pay reasonable costs if it's material I = could really use, but let's discuss it by e-mail first. My problem is that I have several pictures of locomotives with captions = stating that they were taken at Williamsport, but nothing to identify = Williamsport in the picture - I'm interested in pictures that have = something that identifies Williamsport - especially structures, along = with the locomotives or rolling stock, or even just the structures = themselves. Please contact me off list if you can help or know where I can find = help. I have been to Williamsport many times and have pretty well = exhausted the resources there - library, historical society, railfans, = modelers, English's Model RR Shop, Bill Coloroso (Elmira Branch author) = etc. And, of course, I will give you full credit in the presentation, or even = let you share the presentation with me if time and place fit your = schedule! TIA! Bill Bigler - 4915 Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C3EE46.C3F2DA60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Listers,
 
I need pictures of Williamsport PA in the = '40's and=20 '50's (or even '30's) for a presentation I'm putting together.  I = have some=20 material, but sure could use some more.  Best scenario would be if = you=20 could e-mail them to me as attachments.  Second best would be if = you could=20 get them scanned somewhere and e-mail them to me.  I can scan = photographs,=20 slides, and negatives, but if we can avoid sending pictures, especially=20 negatives and slides through the mail, that would be far = preferable.  I=20 would, of course, be willing to pay reasonable costs if it's material I = could=20 really use, but let's discuss it by e-mail first.
 
My problem is that I have several pictures of = locomotives=20 with captions stating that they were taken at Williamsport, but nothing = to=20 identify Williamsport in the picture - I'm interested in pictures that = have=20 something that identifies Williamsport - especially structures, along = with the=20 locomotives or rolling stock, or even just the structures=20 themselves.
 
Please contact me off list if you can help or = know where I=20 can find help.  I have been to Williamsport many times and have = pretty well=20 exhausted the resources there - library, historical society, railfans, = modelers,=20 English's Model RR Shop, Bill Coloroso (Elmira Branch author) = etc.
 
And, of course, I will give you full credit in = the=20 presentation, or even let you share the presentation with me if time and = place=20 fit your schedule!
 
TIA!
 
Bill Bigler - 4915
Big Flats NY
Modeling = PRR Renovo=20 &
     Williamsport = WWII
------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C3EE46.C3F2DA60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Breon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: C-Liner trainphone Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 13:56:30 -0500 Vagel wrote: "One of the PRR listers also posted a bunch of pictures=20 of his Brass C-Liner to show where the wire should go into the back of = the=20 carbody. I don't have the URL to hand, but it can be found by searching = this list's archives." I believe Vagel may be referring to me. Here's the link to my KC layout = page: http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layouts/breon/ Scroll down to Model Photos and click on the C-Liners. Jerry Breon Birdsboro, PA ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C3EE4B.5A986300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Vagel wrote:
 
"One of the PRR listers also posted a bunch of pictures
of his = Brass=20 C-Liner to show where the wire should go into the back of the =
carbody. =20 I don't have the URL to hand, but it can be found by searching
this = list's=20 archives."
 
I believe Vagel may be referring to me. Here's the link to my KC = layout=20 page:
Scroll down to Model Photos and click on the C-Liners.
 
Jerry Breon
Birdsboro, PA
------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C3EE4B.5A986300-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mark Taylor" Subject: [PRR] Bachmann P70r Coaches Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 19:24:25 -0500 From: RGortowski@aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 19:33:05 EST Subject: [PRR] South Wind ACL Cars I'm still trying to figure out the South Wind car mess. If you recall, several of us were wondering what coaches other than the 1940 Budd-built 4000 series coaches (part of the original seven car set) were used in the 1950-51 winter season when the South Wind went to running every two days out of three days. Looking at the Goolsby book (Atlantic Coast Line Passenger Service - The Postwar Years), the ACL evidently painted two 1940 Budd 54 seat coaches in the FOM paint scheme with "Atlantic Coast Line" in the PRR-style font (coaches 208 and 209). The book also claims that "FEC contributed at least one such coach too, the Boca Raton". The kicker, though, is the book claims this was done in 1949! This would indicate that the South Wind was still in FOM scheme in 1949. The strange part, is if you look at the Official Guide for November 1950, in the ACL section, they list four 52 seat reclining seat coaches in the consist. We know the PRR coaches were 60 seat coaches and the 208 and 209 from the ACL were 54 seat coaches, so that is a little confusing! I don't see any ACL 52 seat coaches in 1950. As Bob Zoeller said in an earlier post, the ACL and PRR probably contributed coaches for the second consist. I would guess that the PRR probably gave some additional P82R coaches and the ACL probably gave some stainless steel 54 seat coaches from two different series they had. Boy, I would love to find a few 1950 consists for the South Wind! Any thoughts? Rich -------------------------------1076286785 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
I'm still trying to figure out the South Wind car mess.  If y= ou recall, several of us were wondering what coaches other than th= e 1940 Budd-built 4000 series coaches (part of the original seven car s= et) were used in the 1950-51 winter season when the South Wind went to=20= running every two days out of three days.  Looking at the Goolsby book=20= (Atlantic Coast Line Passenger Service - The Postwar Years), the ACL evident= ly painted two 1940 Budd 54 seat coaches in the FOM paint scheme with "Atlan= tic Coast Line" in the PRR-style font (coaches 208 and 209).  The book=20= also claims that  "FEC contributed at least one such coach too, the Boc= a Raton".  The kicker, though, is the book claims this was done in 1949= !  This would indicate that the South Wind was still in FOM scheme = ;in 1949. 
 
The strange part, is if you look at the Official Guide for November 195= 0, in the ACL section, they list four 52 seat reclining seat coaches in the=20= consist.  We know the PRR coaches were 60 seat coaches and the 208 and=20= 209 from the ACL were 54 seat coaches, so that is a little confusing! =20= I don't see any ACL 52 seat coaches in 1950.
 
As Bob Zoeller said in an earlier post, the ACL and PRR probably contri= buted coaches for the second consist.  I would guess that the PRR proba= bly gave some additional P82R coaches and the ACL probably gave some stainle= ss steel 54 seat coaches from two different series they had.  Boy, I wo= uld love to find a few 1950 consists for the South Wind!
 
Any thoughts?
 
Rich
-------------------------------1076286785-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 22:16:26 -0500 From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." Subject: Re: Re: [PRR] Re: C-Liner trainphone Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: --On Sunday, February 8, 2004 19:36 -0500 "Jerry Breon" wrote: > I believe Vagel may be referring to me. Here's the link to my KC layout = > page: > http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layouts/breon/ n/> > Scroll down to Model Photos and click on the C-Liners. Indeed! Thanks, Jerry. Did you ever weather those puppies, or are they still in the "builders photo" mode as are my Hallmark HOn3 EBT mikes? Vagel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: [PRR] Red caboose X29's Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 23:19:36 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Guys I need to locate two kits for the RC X29 REA kit. Does anyone know if there local shop has some. Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963@aol.com Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 05:06:31 EST Subject: [PRR] South Wind ACL Cars In a message dated 2/8/2004 7:36:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, rgortowski@aol.com writes: I'm still trying to figure out the South Wind car mess. If you recall, several of us were wondering what coaches other than the 1940 Budd-built 4000 series coaches (part of the original seven car set) were used in the 1950-51 winter I don't know if this helps but the December 1951 ACL Timetable lists the follow consist for the Sourhwind: Coach SW 6 - 36 Reclining Seats Reserved Seats - Chicago-Miami Sleeper SW 45 - 6 Sec., 4 Rmts., 4 Dble Bdrms - Chicago-Miami Sleeper SW 44 - 13 Dble Bdrms - Chicago-Miami Sleeper SW 43 - 4 Dble Bdrms., 4Cmpts., 2 Drawing Rooms - Chicago-Miami Sleeper SW 42 - 6 Dble Bdrms., Bar-Lounge - Chicago-Miami Diner Sleepers SW 41 - 10 Roomettes, 6 Dble Bdrms. - Chicago-Miami Diner Sleepers SW 40 - 10 Roomettes, 6 Dble Bdrms. - Chicago-Jacksonville Coach SW 5 - 52 Reclining Seats Reserved Seats - Chicago-Jacksonville Coach SW 4 - 52 Reclining Seats Reserved Seats - Chicago-Miami Coach SW 3 - 52 Reclining Seats Reserved Seats - Chicago-Miami Coach SW 2 - 52 Reclining Seats Reserved Seats - Chicago-Miami Tavern-Lounge-Observation I also have the consist for 1949 which is entirely different. If the above helps I can post that also. I am searching my file for the 1950 ACL Schedule. Harold R. McGee Railroad Historian Alachua County (Florida) Historical Commission -------------------------------1076321191 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 2/8/2004 7:36:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, rgortowsk= i@aol.com writes:
I'm still trying to figure out the South Wind=20= car mess.  If you recall,
several of us were wondering what coaches= other than the 1940 Budd-built 4000
series coaches (part of the origina= l seven car set) were used in the 1950-51 winter
I don't know if this helps but the December 1951 ACL Timetable lists th= e follow consist for the Sourhwind:
Coach SW 6 - 36 Reclining Seats Reserved Seats - Chicago-Miami
Sleeper SW 45 - 6 Sec., 4 Rmts., 4 Dble Bdrms - Chicago-Miami
Sleeper SW 44 - 13 Dble Bdrms - Chicago-Miami
Sleeper SW 43 - 4 Dble Bdrms., 4Cmpts., 2 Drawing Rooms - Chicago-= Miami
Sleeper SW 42 - 6 Dble Bdrms., Bar-Lounge - Chicago-Miami
Diner Sleepers SW 41 - 10 Roomettes, 6 Dble Bdrms. - Chicago-Miami
Diner Sleepers SW 40 - 10 Roomettes, 6 Dble Bdrms. - Chicago-Jacksonvil= le
Coach SW 5 - 52 Reclining Seats Reserved Seats - Chicago-Jacksonville
Coach SW 4 - 52 Reclining Seats Reserved Seats - Chicago-Miami
Coach SW 3 - 52 Reclining Seats Reserved Seats - Chicago-Miami
Coach SW 2 - 52 Reclining Seats Reserved Seats - Chicago-Miami
Tavern-Lounge-Observation
 
I also have the consist for 1949 which is entirely different. If the ab= ove helps I can post that also.
 
I am searching my file for the 1950 ACL Schedule.
 
Harold R. McGee
Railroad Historian
Alachua County (Florida) Historical Commission
-------------------------------1076321191-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Z74 business cars Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 08:29:59 -0500 All business cars in the fleet during my watch (1958-68) had four wheel trucks. I seem to remember the 7504 had the most trouble with being a rough rider and they tried several variations of shock absorbers and snubbers. 7507 was either Quaker City or William Penn. I think 7504 was Wm. Penn so 07 would have been Quaker City. 7504 was usually used by Greenough and 120 was Jim Symes. 90, the Delaware was Bevan's car. The only other car in service was 7510 the Pittsburgher which was Mort Smith's car and was based in Pittsburgh. -----Original Message----- From: J. Smith [mailto:stacktalk@dejazzd.com] Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 5:11 PM To: prr-talk Subject: [PRR] Z74 business cars I am interested in knowing if all of the Z74 business cars had their 6 wheel trucks replaced with 4 wheel trucks. Assuming that they all had 6 wheel trucks to begin with. Would there have been any other modifications done to these cars other than trucks? I am particularly interested in car #7507 which was named Maryland. My plan is to convert my Bachmann prewar car into a c1950 version. Thanks, Jeff Smith ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01C3EEE6.E9121130 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
All=20 business cars in the fleet during my watch (1958-68) had four wheel=20 trucks.  I seem to remember the 7504 had the most trouble with = being a=20 rough rider and they tried several variations of shock absorbers and=20 snubbers.   7507 was either Quaker City or William = Penn.  I=20 think 7504 was Wm. Penn so 07 would have been Quaker City.  7504 = was=20 usually used by Greenough and 120 was Jim Symes.  90, the Delaware = was=20 Bevan's car.  The only other car in service was 7510 the = Pittsburgher which=20 was Mort Smith's car and was based in = Pittsburgh.
-----Original Message-----
From: J. = Smith=20 [mailto:stacktalk@dejazzd.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 05, = 2004=20 5:11 PM
To: prr-talk
Subject: [PRR] Z74 business=20 cars

I am interested in knowing if all of = the Z74=20 business cars had their 6 wheel trucks replaced with 4 wheel = trucks. =20 Assuming that they all had 6 wheel trucks to begin with.   = Would=20 there have been any other modifications done to these cars other than = trucks?=20
 
I am particularly interested in car = #7507 which=20 was named Maryland.  My plan is to convert my Bachmann prewar car = into a=20 c1950 version.
 
 
Thanks,
 
Jeff = Smith
------=_NextPart_000_0081_01C3EEE6.E9121130-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] South Wind ACL Cars Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 08:14:01 -0600 From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Who owned sleeper SW 45? It's an unusual floor plan. -----Original Message----- From: Hal6963@aol.com [mailto:Hal6963@aol.com] Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 4:07 AM To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] South Wind ACL Cars In a message dated 2/8/2004 7:36:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, rgortowski@aol.com writes: I'm still trying to figure out the South Wind car mess. If you recall,=20 several of us were wondering what coaches other than the 1940 Budd-built 4000=20 series coaches (part of the original seven car set) were used in the 1950-51 winter=20 I don't know if this helps but the December 1951 ACL Timetable lists the follow consist for the Sourhwind: Coach SW 6 - 36 Reclining Seats Reserved Seats - Chicago-Miami Sleeper SW 45 - 6 Sec., 4 Rmts., 4 Dble Bdrms - Chicago-Miami Sleeper SW 44 - 13 Dble Bdrms - Chicago-Miami Sleeper SW 43 - 4 Dble Bdrms., 4Cmpts., 2 Drawing Rooms - Chicago-Miami Sleeper SW 42 - 6 Dble Bdrms., Bar-Lounge - Chicago-Miami Diner Sleepers SW 41 - 10 Roomettes, 6 Dble Bdrms. - Chicago-Miami Diner Sleepers SW 40 - 10 Roomettes, 6 Dble Bdrms. - Chicago-Jacksonville Coach SW 5 - 52 Reclining Seats Reserved Seats - Chicago-Jacksonville Coach SW 4 - 52 Reclining Seats Reserved Seats - Chicago-Miami Coach SW 3 - 52 Reclining Seats Reserved Seats - Chicago-Miami Coach SW 2 - 52 Reclining Seats Reserved Seats - Chicago-Miami Tavern-Lounge-Observation =20 I also have the consist for 1949 which is entirely different. If the above helps I can post that also. =20 I am searching my file for the 1950 ACL Schedule. =20 Harold R. McGee Railroad Historian Alachua County (Florida) Historical Commission ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3EF16.F7793D6C Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Who owned sleeper SW 45?  = It's an=20 unusual floor plan.
-----Original Message-----
From: = Hal6963@aol.com=20 [mailto:Hal6963@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 = 4:07=20 AM
To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] South Wind = ACL=20 Cars
In a message dated 2/8/2004 7:36:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20 rgortowski@aol.com writes:
I'm still trying to figure out the South Wind car = mess.  If=20 you recall,
several of us were wondering what coaches other than = the=20 1940 Budd-built 4000
series coaches (part of the original seven = car set)=20 were used in the 1950-51 winter
I don't know if this helps but the December 1951 ACL Timetable = lists the=20 follow consist for the Sourhwind:
Coach SW 6 - 36 Reclining Seats Reserved Seats - = Chicago-Miami
Sleeper SW 45 - 6 Sec., 4 Rmts., 4 Dble Bdrms - = Chicago-Miami
Sleeper SW 44 - 13 Dble Bdrms - Chicago-Miami
Sleeper SW 43 - 4 Dble Bdrms., 4Cmpts., 2 Drawing Rooms -=20 Chicago-Miami
Sleeper SW 42 - 6 Dble Bdrms., Bar-Lounge - = Chicago-Miami
Diner Sleepers SW 41 - 10 Roomettes, 6 Dble Bdrms. - = Chicago-Miami
Diner Sleepers SW 40 - 10 Roomettes, 6 Dble Bdrms. -=20 Chicago-Jacksonville
Coach SW 5 - 52 Reclining Seats Reserved Seats -=20 Chicago-Jacksonville
Coach SW 4 - 52 Reclining Seats Reserved Seats - = Chicago-Miami
Coach SW 3 - 52 Reclining Seats Reserved Seats - = Chicago-Miami
Coach SW 2 - 52 Reclining Seats Reserved Seats - = Chicago-Miami
Tavern-Lounge-Observation
 
I also have the consist for 1949 which is entirely different. If = the=20 above helps I can post that also.
 
I am searching my file for the 1950 ACL Schedule.
 
Harold R. McGee
Railroad Historian
Alachua County (Florida) Historical=20 Commission
------_=_NextPart_001_01C3EF16.F7793D6C-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Future Broadway PRR Locos Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 10:25:09 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <05CC2985-58AB-11D8-978B-000A958DAD46@mail.auburn.edu> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The only requirement is that the motor brushes be isolated from the = frame. One side of the DC-71 already is - the side with the wire to the tender. = On many (most?> -all?) Pittman motor, the brushes are held in a fiber or = other non-conducting plate. Current is transmitted to the frame-grounded = brush through the spring which tensions the brushes. The insulated brush = usually has an insulated sleeve over the that spring wire. =20 So the easiest solution is the isolate the other brush by attaching a = piece of plastic wire insulation over the brush tensioning spring where it = leans against the brush. You must then solder a new lead onto the newly = isolated brush arm. Some motor have their brush tensioning done differently, but = the concept of isolating the grounded brush still holds. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bruce = Smith Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 8:48 AM To: Douglas Kirkpatrick Cc: Prr-Talk@dsop.com; TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Future Broadway PRR Locos On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 12:24 AM, Douglas Kirkpatrick wrote: > Greg, > > Thanks. I am a member of PRRT&HS but haven't checked out the Keystone > Modeler yet. I'll look for it. > > In the meantime I opened up an old K4 model kit I bought in 1986 (!)=20 > from > Bowser. It looks like it's made of cast iron! Is this too old to=20 > convert to > DCC? Doug, Nothing is too old to convert to DCC...its just a question of how! The=20 old Bowsers suffer from the problem that the motor is not isolated from=20 the frame. For DCC this is an absolute must. Fortunately, now there=20 are 2 simple solutions, both involving remotoring the model. The best,=20 IMHO, is to buy a repower kit from Alliance (available from our=20 listmeister at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/ as well as many=20 others). This is a can motor with flywheel and is a "drop in=20 solution". The second alternative is to buy or trade your old DC-71=20 motor for the new "DCC friendly" DC-71 motor through Bowser. The=20 problem here is that the DC-71 has always been an amperage hog and thus=20 you need to be very careful to get a decoder that can handle it. This=20 becomes especially critical when the decoder has lots of functions (ie=20 sound) that start to eat up amps as well... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin=20 Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI M1b Reset & Such Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 10:29:22 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I have been able to add almost 3 oz of lead to my M1 in the space behind the motor, It improved the pulling power by about 25%. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Harry Fitch Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 10:55 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] BLI M1b Reset & Such . . . . The BLI M1b loco is a nice value for what it is but I have a GEM-Olympia H10s that will pull it backwards! (no it is not stock and perhaps not fair, but that is the advantage of brass. Yes Virginia, Gems do indeed run!) Harry Fitch prrk4s@msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred in Vt." Subject: [PRR] Springfield show Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 11:09:23 -0500 Good day all--- This show has lived up to it's reputation yet again. If = you have been to the York, Pa. show, then you have an idea of the size = and scope. Notes; Bill Lane would have enjoyed the S-scale layout, haven't seen that much = effort displayed since the 1950's. The quality was something to hold = one's imagination for hours.The one K4s that was run for a short while = had the SPF's mesmerized. Some day I hope to reach that level of skill. = The engine service facility attached to this display reminded me of the = Harrisburg facility when it was FULL. Had to take lots of notes. By far the largest body count at any manufacturers booth was Branchline = Trains. Test shots of the forthcomming pullman series cars were there to = be handled, and commented upon. Having seen first hand, there will be a = large order in the works for May delivery. Most listers will be = impressed with the details, and construction methods. The ambitious will = look at them to figure how to make other PRR heavyweight cars. Were I a = betting man, then I would forcast a 5% tuition increase at the = Veterinary Science Dept. at Auburn Univ.. I can't imagine rebuilding all = those R50b's, and not having the rest of the train to go with them. { = just kidding B. } In any event, most of us will end up with more than a = couple of these. Heavy sellers on saturday were the folks from Tichy and F&C. This was = the kind of sale the wives dream about-------PRR gonds/2 per box >2 = boxes for $30.00; the 120ton crane and the boom car for $25.00. Somebody = has been reading TKM, and making sure we don't get bored finding the = kits. My workbench looks like Eldon's BEFORE he got working! Even Yankee = Clipper was selling in like manner. Found a dealer from Maine who put RC = X29's out for $10.00 ea.. Boy did the SPF's help him out with his = expenses. Serious freight car builders had a field day. Bethlehem Car = Works had some hot deals on the kit bit line, including trucks> 4 pairs = of PRR type for $32.00. The crew from Railway Classics had some current and, pre-production = models for the high end buyers to admire. [ where did I put that lotto = ticket?] Some of us will not have the tax refund very long this year, = too many items to list on the way. The one missing vendor was Al Westerfield. With all the ice in that = area, no doubt a venue closer to home was in order. Oh well, there is = always mail order. Wish I had thought to wear a pedometer, just to know how many miles = traveled for the day. Something new to me>>> DCC instalation while you wait. Tony's Train = Xchange from Essex Jct. Vt. was providing this service, and at a modest = price. Even to the point of adding Digitrax components purchased at the = manufacturer's booth acros the hall. I was impressed!! Hopefully, one = of our list members had camera, and stopped long enough to send some = pix. Those members of the Society who met had a very constructive = session for forming a NE chapter. More on that later. To those we did not see, sorry we missed you. = Thanks for reading------------Fred in Vt=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C3EEFD.2C560F80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Good day all---
          &nbs= p;     =20 This show has lived up to it's reputation yet again. If you have been to = the=20 York, Pa. show, then you have an idea of the size and scope. = Notes;
 
Bill Lane would have enjoyed the = S-scale layout,=20 haven't seen  that much effort displayed since the 1950's. The = quality was=20 something to hold one's imagination for hours.The one K4s that was run = for a=20 short while had the SPF's mesmerized. Some day I hope to reach that = level of=20 skill. The engine service facility attached to this display reminded me = of the=20 Harrisburg facility when it was FULL. Had to take lots of = notes.
 
By far the largest body count at any = manufacturers=20 booth was Branchline Trains. Test shots of the forthcomming pullman = series cars=20 were there to be handled, and commented upon. Having seen first hand, = there will=20 be a large order in the works for May delivery. Most listers will be = impressed=20 with the details, and construction methods. The ambitious will look at = them to=20 figure how to make other PRR heavyweight cars. Were I a betting man, = then I=20 would forcast a 5% tuition increase at the Veterinary Science Dept. at = Auburn=20 Univ.. I can't imagine rebuilding all those R50b's, and not having the = rest of=20 the train to go with them. { just kidding B. } In any event, most of us = will end=20 up with more than a couple of these.
 
Heavy sellers on saturday were the = folks from Tichy=20 and F&C. This was the kind of sale the wives dream about-------PRR = gonds/2=20 per box >2 boxes for $30.00; the 120ton crane and the boom car for = $25.00.=20 Somebody has been reading TKM, and making sure we don't get bored = finding the=20 kits. My workbench looks like Eldon's BEFORE he got working! Even Yankee = Clipper=20 was selling in like manner. Found a dealer from Maine who put RC X29's = out for=20 $10.00 ea.. Boy did the SPF's help him out with his expenses. Serious = freight=20 car builders had a field day. Bethlehem Car Works had some hot deals on = the kit=20 bit line, including trucks> 4 pairs of PRR type for = $32.00.
 
The crew from Railway Classics had some = current=20 and, pre-production models for the high end buyers to admire. [ where = did I put=20 that lotto ticket?] Some of us will not have the tax refund very long = this year,=20 too many items to list on the way.
 
The one missing vendor was Al = Westerfield. With all=20 the ice in that area, no doubt a venue closer to home was in order. Oh = well,=20 there is always mail order.
 
Wish I had thought to wear a pedometer, = just to=20 know how many miles traveled for the day.
 
Something new to me>>> DCC = instalation=20 while you wait. Tony's Train Xchange from Essex Jct. Vt. was = providing=20 this service, and at a modest price. Even to the point of adding = Digitrax=20 components purchased at the manufacturer's booth acros the hall. I = was=20 impressed!!  Hopefully, one of our list members had camera, and = stopped=20 long enough to send some pix. Those members of the Society who met had a = very=20 constructive session for forming a NE chapter. More on that = later.
 
To those we did not see, sorry we = missed=20 you.           &nb= sp;         =20 Thanks for reading------------Fred in Vt 
 
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C3EEFD.2C560F80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] 48 Broadway obs Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 12:21:07 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Michael and All: I've been looking for this book for years. I understand it went out of print some years back with no plans to run again. Has anyone heard differently? Larry Reynolds ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Watnoski" To: Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [PRR-Modeling] 48 Broadway obs > Hi Greg, > > I think the best souce would be the'The offical Pullman Standard > Library, Vol.4,Pennsylvania Railroad' by Randall and Ross. This book > has 11 pages of information, including floor plans, interior photos and > drawings of both sides. > > Michael > > > Gregory Snook wrote: > > > > Hello, > > I picked up a Riverossi smooothside obs at Springfield as I was told it > > is correct for the Mountain and Tower View. Might anybody know of a web > > site or article or other source of information on turning this into a > > respectable, decently detailed model? Thanks in advance, Greg > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark > Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/9MtolB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > Sharing and enjoying our memories and materials and methods to better reproduce the PRR in miniature ! > Yahoo! Groups Links > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR-Modeling/ > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > PRR-Modeling-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 11:21:07 -0600 Subject: Re: { SPAM 1 }::[PRR] Springfield show From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Monday, February 9, 2004, at 10:09 AM, Fred in Vt. wrote: > By far the largest body count at any manufacturers booth was > Branchline Trains. Test shots of the forthcomming pullman series cars > were there to be handled, and commented upon. Having seen first hand, > there will be a large order in the works for May delivery. Most > listers will be impressed with the details, and construction methods. > The ambitious will look at them to figure how to make other PRR > heavyweight cars. Were I a betting man, then I would forcast a 5% > tuition increase at the Veterinary Science Dept. at Auburn Univ.. I > can't imagine rebuilding all those R50b's, and not having the rest of > the train to go with them. { just kidding B. } In any event, most of > us will end up with more than a couple of these. Nah, we'll just charge it to the clients . I was all set to order through Merchandise Service, but Jerry doesn't handle Branchline, so I'll be ordering from my "local" hobby shop (100 miles away). I definitely see these Pullmans as a potential PRRPro project as well. I'm going to be getting an undec 12-1 to repaint as Daniel Webster in FOM (and use some of my FOM decals), and an 8-1-2 to paint as Algonquin Park (I KNOW, AP is listed in the painted version, but I don't want ACL, I want PULLMAN) and a 10-1-2 to paint as "Puerto Rico". Both the latter 2 cars were in the consist of the Champion in 1945. With the addition of the Daniel Webster and perhaps Nocturn or Eventide (Wainting for Greg top write that up) I'll have a nice dose of Pullmans to add to make up the Champion... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-8--744180471 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII On Monday, February 9, 2004, at 10:09 AM, Fred in Vt. wrote: ArialBy far the largest body count at any manufacturers booth was Branchline Trains. Test shots of the forthcomming pullman series cars were there to be handled, and commented upon. Having seen first hand, there will be a large order in the works for May delivery. Most listers will be impressed with the details, and construction methods. The ambitious will look at them to figure how to make other PRR heavyweight cars. Were I a betting man, then I would forcast a 5% tuition increase at the Veterinary Science Dept. at Auburn Univ.. I can't imagine rebuilding all those R50b's, and not having the rest of the train to go with them. { just kidding B. } In any event, most of us will end up with more than a couple of these. Nah, we'll just charge it to the clients <. I was all set to order through Merchandise Service, but Jerry doesn't handle Branchline, so I'll be ordering from my "local" hobby shop (100 miles away). I definitely see these Pullmans as a potential PRRPro project as well. I'm going to be getting an undec 12-1 to repaint as Daniel Webster in FOM (and use some of my FOM decals), and an 8-1-2 to paint as Algonquin Park (I KNOW, AP is listed in the painted version, but I don't want ACL, I want PULLMAN) and a 10-1-2 to paint as "Puerto Rico". Both the latter 2 cars were in the consist of the Champion in 1945. With the addition of the Daniel Webster and perhaps Nocturn or Eventide (Wainting for Greg top write that up) I'll have a nice dose of Pullmans to add to make up the Champion... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-8--744180471-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 12:43:53 -0500 From: Garry Spear Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] 48 Broadway obs Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: eBay seems to be about the only source. Garry Spear Larry Reynolds wrote: > Michael and All: > > I've been looking for this book for years. I understand it went out of > print some years back with no plans to run again. Has anyone heard > differently? > > Larry Reynolds > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Watnoski" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 11:01 AM > Subject: Re: [PRR-Modeling] 48 Broadway obs > > > >>Hi Greg, >> >>I think the best souce would be the'The offical Pullman Standard >>Library, Vol.4,Pennsylvania Railroad' by Randall and Ross. This book >>has 11 pages of information, including floor plans, interior photos and >>drawings of both sides. >> >>Michael >> >> >>Gregory Snook wrote: >> >>>Hello, >>>I picked up a Riverossi smooothside obs at Springfield as I was told it >>>is correct for the Mountain and Tower View. Might anybody know of a web >>>site or article or other source of information on turning this into a >>>respectable, decently detailed model? Thanks in advance, Greg >> >> >> >>------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> >>Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark >>Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. >>http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 >>http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/9MtolB/TM >>---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> >> >>Sharing and enjoying our memories and materials and methods to better > > reproduce the PRR in miniature ! > >>Yahoo! Groups Links >> >><*> To visit your group on the web, go to: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR-Modeling/ >> >><*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> PRR-Modeling-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >><*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >> >> > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Douglas Day" Subject: [PRR] Hammerheads. Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 13:47:46 -0500 List, I'm considering doing a PRR hammerhead and was wondering what their PRR = class number was, how many they had, and the number(s) of them? Did = they sport vertical dual headlights too, as the regular RS3? Who makes = the conversion hood for them? Doug ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C3EF13.4C6C7820 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
List,
 
I'm considering doing a PRR hammerhead = and was=20 wondering what their PRR class number was, how many they had, and the = number(s)=20 of them?  Did they sport vertical dual headlights too, as the = regular=20 RS3?  Who makes the conversion hood for them?
 
Doug
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C3EF13.4C6C7820-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] BLI M1- One Last Trip Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 15:17:56 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gents, I'd just like a refresher on how to replace the dummy pilot coupler on the M1 with a KD. A personal reply would be best to supllant the uneeded volume on the list. Thanx ahead of time. -John Designer & Modeler Custom Model Railroads Baltimore, MD Visit us Online at www.cmrtrain.com ! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Red caboose X29's Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 21:06:51 +0000 From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:14:26 EST Subject: [PRR] BLI M1a Pilot coupler Please include me on that request for an operating coupler. I am contemplating cutting the loop off of a Kadee then drilling it to receive a pin installed from the bottom. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1076361266 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Please include me on that request for an operating coupler.  I am=20= contemplating cutting the loop off of a Kadee then drilling it to receive a=20= pin installed from the bottom.

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1076361266-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: [PRR] Product of Note: Microscale PRR Merchandise Service Boxcar Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 21:17:34 +0000 Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 16:37:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI M1- One Last Trip From: Gene Nowlan X-eSCM-MailFrom: From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR] Hammerheads. Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 13:58:23 -0800 From: Douglas Day [mailto:dougday1951@comcast.net] Subject: [PRR] Hammerheads.

Doug;

The only one the PRR had was 8445; = yes, vertical headlight, equipment boxes, I made my own short hood kit, but = Train Station Products, now Detail Associates markets one.  It does not have all the = proper vents.  I added a dynamic = brake vent grille from another DA set for Alco dynamic set ups.  There are also two pipe vents = on the right side of the roof, plus a square rounded off vent.  Plus the = two side vents that had louvers in them.  I made mine from louver material I bought once, but you could = use GP sides vents stack one on top of another, in a cut out hole.  Check the photos.  The top of the short hood had = a riveted panel I made from 005 sheet with embossed = rivets.  You also need the CalScale antenna set and DA drop steps and a water-cooled turbo stack and the = late steam-equipped tank arrangement.  = I made my own from their parts and styrene.  Oh, the corner number boards came from some pieces Details West = makes with the back filed down to a nice curvature.  Some side vents need to be = sanded off the side doors; see photos.  = I only wish the basic body had been better to start with.  We really need a great RS3 to = begin with.

 

=

Elden

 

=

-----Original = Message-----
From: Douglas Day [mailto:dougday1951@comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, February = 09, 2004 10:48 AM
To: = prr-talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] = Hammerheads.

 

List,

 

I'm considering doing a = PRR hammerhead and was wondering what their PRR class number was, how many = they had, and the number(s) of them?  Did they sport vertical dual = headlights too, as the regular RS3?  Who makes the conversion hood for = them?

 

Doug

------_=_NextPart_001_01C3EF57.D6444F20-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI M1- One Last Trip Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 15:57:52 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] BLI M1- One Last Trip Thread-Index: AcPvVmhh0P/HvskQRZWKcKXokqrOrwAATpow From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: "Gene Nowlan" , "John Frantz" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Feb 2004 21:57:53.0318 (UTC) FILETIME=[C46D0C60:01C3EF57] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Based on the photos from Tony's Train Exchange, the new #78 scale KDs in their own draft gear box might also work without to much effort. -----Original Message----- From: Gene Nowlan [mailto:ENowlan@stny.rr.com] Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 3:38 PM To: John Frantz; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI M1- One Last Trip John Frantz > I'd just like a refresher on how to replace the dummy > pilot coupler on the M1 with a KD. Tony's Train Exchange describes one way of changing the front coupler. Gene Nowlan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 18:22:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] 48 Broadway obs From: "Frederic H. Abendschein" > From: "Michael Watnoski" > Subject: Re: [PRR-Modeling] 48 Broadway obs From: "Christopher Baker" Subject: [PRR] HO-scale plastic interlocking towers Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 20:16:04 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I read somewhere that an interlocking tower in one of the popular HO-scale plastic "toy-train" building kit lines (e.g., Atlas, Con Cor, etc.) is based upon a PRR prototype. Can anyone identify the model I am referring to and what prototype tower was the inspiration for the model? Also I've been told that the Atlas station model is PRR-based but it looks more B&O to me. What's the real story? Thanks in advance, Chris Baker PRRT&HS #1918 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] (PRR) Value of a HO Brass PRR N1 Samhongsa Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 07:59:58 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI M1b Reset & Such Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:36:05 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Harry, The original center of gravity was slightly forward of the second = driver. The additional weight aft moved the c-o-g to a point slightly forward of = the third driver. Ideally it should be right between the two. Getting the = C0o0g centered on the drivers is almost as valuable as adding more weight. The boiler comes off without too much trouble. The instructions on = removing the smokebox front are pretty clear. The only warning I can add is that = the front end of the running boards are fragile and the fireman's side in particular can break off if you are not watching what is happening when = you remove the boiler. Fortunately the plastic boiler glues together very = well and any seam is hidden by my weathering. Yes, sigh, I am speaking from experience. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: Harry Fitch [mailto:prrk4s@msn.com]=20 Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 5:24 PM To: Andrew S. Miller Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI M1b Reset & Such How was it to getting the boiler off Andy? Some of the other plastic is horrible. I have not tried the BLI as this is the only one I have. Did = the loco balance out well with the added weight installed. I have not tried = the stock one yet for balance. Harry -----Original Message----- From: Andrew S. Miller [mailto:asmiller@mitre.org] Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 10:29 AM To: 'Harry Fitch'; 'PRR-Talk' Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI M1b Reset & Such I have been able to add almost 3 oz of lead to my M1 in the space behind = the motor, It improved the pulling power by about 25%. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Harry = Fitch Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 10:55 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] BLI M1b Reset & Such . . . . The BLI M1b loco is a nice value for what it is but I have a GEM-Olympia H10s that will pull it backwards! (no it is not stock and perhaps not = fair, but that is the advantage of brass. Yes Virginia, Gems do indeed run!) Harry Fitch prrk4s@msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: RE: [PRR] (PRR) Value of a HO Brass PRR N1 Samhongsa Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:43:17 +0000 >From: "Sam Vastano" >Subject: [PRR] (PRR) Value of a HO Brass PRR N1 Samhongsa >Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 07:59:58 -0500 From: "PennsyNut" Subject: Re: [PRR] HO-scale plastic interlocking towers Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 11:05:46 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Feb 2004 17:07:08.0631 (UTC) FILETIME=[50FECE70:01C3EFF8] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Chris You betcha. I have both the Interlocking Tower and the Signal Tower. Originally made by Pola, a German Co. Signal part no. 357. Interlocking part no. 354. Then, the molds were picked up by MinikitS. (Caps intentional). Another German Co. Signal part no. 5821. Interlocking part no. 5825:198. The pictures on the boxes look a little European (naturally). But both can be very nice looking PRR towers. How athentic, I don't know, but - as with all projects, find pictures of the prototype you are modeling and adapt the kits. Hope this helps all. Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist, Proud SPF PRRTHS #1204 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Baker" To: Sent: Monday, 09 February, 2004 7:16 PM Subject: [PRR] HO-scale plastic interlocking towers > I read somewhere that an interlocking tower in one of the popular HO-scale > plastic "toy-train" building kit lines (e.g., Atlas, Con Cor, etc.) is based > upon a PRR prototype. Can anyone identify the model I am referring to and > what prototype tower was the inspiration for the model? > > Also I've been told that the Atlas station model is PRR-based but it looks > more B&O to me. What's the real story? > > Thanks in advance, > Chris Baker > PRRT&HS #1918 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.576 / Virus Database: 365 - Release Date: 01/30/2004 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:09:32 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Who Wants MG in N Scale? From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Folks, there is a project underway to produce MG tower in N scale. It will be laser cut to measurements taken off the actual structure. (We have not located actual drawings, which would be preferable.) The target price is in the $30-60 range. Sorry, but the person spearheading the project can't get closer, yet. Timeframe is no earlier than this summer. If you are interested, please e-mail Ian MacMillan ( ian_macmillan@comcast.net ) direct and we will add your name to the list. This will not be a binding order! When released it will be available through many sources, including Merchandise Service. You can purchase through any of these sources that you wish. At this time we are merely gauging interest. We need at least 50 orders. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "L. Heintz" Subject: [PRR] RE: Hammerhead Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:25:17 -0500 Bill Volkmer's photos from 66/67 show the 8445 with a dual headlamps. = The lamp in his photos appears to be a standard bolt in unit. In its present look = a plate has been welded into this opening with just the lamp(s) unit bolted on. When = this change occurred is not clear ,but, there is some speculation that = it may have been delivered with a single lamp. Does anyone have older = photos of this engine ? Tiger Valley Models in Phelps,NY makes all kinds of Alco models and had = them a couple of years ago. Try the link below and email them for parts = info.=20 http://www.lynnet.com/~tigervalley/ In case you don't know the 8445 now LVRR 211 is still alive and = kicking,albeit slightly modified. Check this link and click on the photo = files at the bottom of the page. http://www.rochnrhs.org/rgvrrm_lv211.html Lynn ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C3EFD0.F1C8A380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Bill Volkmer's photos from 66/67 = show the 8445=20 with a dual headlamps. The lamp
in his photos appears to be a = standard bolt in=20 unit. In its present look a plate has
been welded into this opening with just = the lamp(s) unit bolted on. When this change occurred is not = clear=20 ,but, there is some speculation = that it=20 may have been delivered with a single lamp. Does anyone have older = photos of=20 this engine ?
 
Tiger Valley Models in Phelps,NY makes = all kinds of=20 Alco models and had them a couple of years ago. Try the link below and = email=20 them for parts info. 
 
http://www.lynnet.com/~tiger= valley/
 
In case you don't know the 8445 now = LVRR 211 is=20 still alive and kicking,albeit slightly modified. Check this link and = click on=20 the photo files at the bottom of the page.
 
http://www.rochnrhs.or= g/rgvrrm_lv211.html
 
Lynn
 
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C3EFD0.F1C8A380-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Who Wants MG in N Scale? Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:34:56 -0500 From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Subject: [PRR] Who Wants MG in N Scale? RE: [PRR] Who Wants MG in N Scale?

If it is laser cut can the machine be made to make HO = copies?
Chris Chany

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com]=
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 12:10 PM
To: PRR-Talk LIST
Cc: PRR-n_scale
Subject: [PRR] Who Wants MG in N Scale?


Folks, there is a project underway to produce MG = tower in N scale. It
will be laser cut to measurements taken off the = actual structure. (We
have not located actual drawings, which would be = preferable.)

The target price is in the $30-60 range. Sorry, but = the person
spearheading the project can't get closer, yet. = Timeframe is no earlier
than this summer.

If you are interested, please e-mail Ian MacMillan ( =
ian_macmillan@comcast.net ) direct and we will add = your name to the
list. This will not be a binding order! When = released it will be
available through many sources, including = Merchandise Service. You can
purchase through any of these sources that you wish. = At this time we
are merely gauging interest. We need at least 50 = orders.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF   Member, = PRRT&HS   jerry@pennsyrr.com
Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N = Scale.
"Keystone Crossings" - Home of the = "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
     http://kc.pennsyrr.com
"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad = products...
     http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com


---------------------------------------------------------------= --------
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C3EFFC.3327F6C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:41:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Who Wants MG in N Scale? From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, at 12:34 PM, Chany, Christopher wrote: > If it is laser cut can the machine be made to make HO copies? Hey, when's the last time you HO guys jumped at the chance to scale something down to N? Hmmm, okay, get Walthers to do the loco service facility series in N, then we'll do the towers in HO...sound good? (Yes, plural, ALTO will be second!) Seriously, we'll see. Once the engineering is done, should be pretty straightforward. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:04:00 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Who Wants MG in N Scale? From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, at 11:41 AM, Jerry Britton wrote: > On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, at 12:34 PM, Chany, Christopher wrote: > >> If it is laser cut can the machine be made to make HO copies? > > Hey, when's the last time you HO guys jumped at the chance to scale > something down to N? > > Hmmm, okay, get Walthers to do the loco service facility series in N, > then we'll do the towers in HO...sound good? (Yes, plural, ALTO will > be second!) > > Seriously, we'll see. Once the engineering is done, should be pretty > straightforward. The only real difficulty is in scaling the tabs and slots...you cannot just "port" it from N to HO, but it will need some design work as well. That said, all the major work will be done! Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eSCM-MailFrom: From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: Hammerhead Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:15:38 -0800 From: L. Heintz [mailto:lheintz2@rochester.rr.com] Subject: [PRR] RE: Hammerhead

8445 was not one of the = single-lamp RS3's the PRR got.  Those were = the 8900 series ones (I think) that were produced in about '51? 8445 was one of the = last ones before Alco went to the later carbody, and came as-built with the = dual beams in that PRR-ordered vertical configuration.  You can see it in the builders = photos.

 

=

Elden

 

=

-----Original = Message-----
From: L. Heintz = [mailto:lheintz2@rochester.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February = 10, 2004 9:25 AM
To: = prr-talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] RE: = Hammerhead

 

Bill Volkmer's photos from 66/67 show the 8445 with a dual headlamps. The = lamp

in his photos appears = to be a standard bolt in unit. In its present look a plate = has

been welded into this = opening with just the lamp(s) unit bolted on. When this change occurred is = not clear ,but, there is some speculation that it may have been = delivered with a single lamp. Does anyone have older photos of this engine = ?

 

Tiger Valley Models in = Phelps,NY makes all kinds of Alco models and had them a couple of years ago. Try = the link below and email them for parts info. 

 

 

In case you don't know the = 8445 now LVRR 211 is still alive and kicking,albeit slightly modified. Check = this link and click on the photo files at the bottom of the = page.

 

 

Lynn

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01C3F001.E2D37BD0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 13:54:31 EST Subject: [PRR] Queen Mary For those who have modeled this car starting with a Rivarossi car. Which is more suitable, the sleeper or the observation car? I have a stash of New England Rail Service parts ready for this car. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1076439271 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
  For those who have modeled this car starting with a Rivarossi ca= r.  Which is more suitable, the sleeper or the observation car?  I= have a stash of New England Rail Service parts ready for this car.

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1076439271-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Queen Mary Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:22:58 -0500 Evan, =20 While I haven't done a model of the QM, I have to believe you would be better off starting with the Rivarossi 12-1 than with the obs. The Rivarossi HW obs is a signature Santa Fe car and the body will be very different from a Pullman body in such details as riveting and belt rail. =20 BTW you probably know this already, but the Rivarossi 12-1 has one right = end and one wrong one. The wrong one is recessed and has an external brake wheel. It was copied from a HW baggage car. You probably should cut up = that end to create the open platform and leave the correct vestibule end = alone. =20 regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of RDG2124@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 1:55 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Queen Mary For those who have modeled this car starting with a Rivarossi car. = Which is more suitable, the sleeper or the observation car? I have a stash of = New England Rail Service parts ready for this car. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C3EFE1.61E73BD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
Evan,
 
While I = haven't done a=20 model of the QM, I have to believe you would be better off starting with = the=20 Rivarossi 12-1 than with the obs.  The Rivarossi HW obs is a = signature=20 Santa Fe car and the body will be very different from a Pullman body in = such=20 details as riveting and belt rail.
 
BTW you = probably know=20 this already, but the Rivarossi 12-1 has one right end and one wrong = one. =20 The wrong one is recessed and has an external brake wheel. It was copied = from a=20 HW baggage car. You probably should cut up that end to create the open = platform=20 and leave the correct vestibule end alone.
 
regards,
Andy Miller
-----Original Message-----
From: = PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of = RDG2124@aol.com
Sent:=20 Tuesday, February 10, 2004 1:55 PM
To:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] Queen = Mary

  For those who have modeled this car starting with a = Rivarossi=20 car.  Which is more suitable, the sleeper or the observation = car?  I=20 have a stash of New England Rail Service parts ready for this = car.

Evan = Leisey
RCT&HS=20 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) = 2036
CNJ
------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C3EFE1.61E73BD0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] Who wants an HO Brick Tower? Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:35:02 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gents, Since Jerry brought the issue up in N scale, I thought it'd be fair for me to let the Ho gentelmen that I am working on Cut files for an HO 8-20 Lever Machine just like the drawings done in Jeff Sherb's book. I will be making a primary cut to see how scale bricks cut and some other issues in a few weeks. Once cut, i'll be working on an second kity to make one closer in appearance to COLA, BOWIE, HOLMESBURG JCT. I am planning on having an example hopefully by Cinncinatti in the model room. Because a cut hasn't been made yet an approximate cost hasn't been made yet, though i'm looking into having a proceeds of the cost go towards the society or one of its chapters. Best Regards, John Designer & Modeler Custom Model Railroads Baltimore, MD Visit us Online at www.cmrtrain.com ! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Value of a HO Brass PRR N1 Samhongsa Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:04:47 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Sam: I purchased one of these Samhongsa N-1's about five years ago. I paid $300. I have to tell you that it's one of the finest running engines on my roster. Runs just about every session, smoothly and flawlessly. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Vastano" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 7:59 AM Subject: [PRR] (PRR) Value of a HO Brass PRR N1 Samhongsa > Group, > > Since I am not savy of the value of brass, can someone give me a approx > value of one of these? Not painted, Slight tarnish, looks to be almost no > wheel wear. I am looking to buy it not sell it... > > Here is a link to a photo of the model. > http://groups.msn.com/Samstoys/samstrainphotos.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=51 > > Thanks for the input.... > > SamV > > _________________________________________________________________ > Let the advanced features & services of MSN Internet Software maximize your > online time. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200363ave/direct/01/ > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Value of a HO Brass PRR N1 Samhongsa Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:13:01 -0500 >From: "Larry Reynolds" >Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Value of a HO Brass PRR N1 Samhongsa >Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:04:47 -0500 >From: "Sam Vastano" >Subject: [PRR] (PRR) Value of a HO Brass PRR N1 Samhongsa From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Value of a HO Brass PRR N1 Samhongsa Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:24:35 +0000 >From: "Sam Vastano" >Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Value of a HO Brass PRR N1 Samhongsa >Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:13:01 -0500 >>From: "Larry Reynolds" >>Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Value of a HO Brass PRR N1 Samhongsa >>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:04:47 -0500 >>From: "Sam Vastano" >>Subject: [PRR] (PRR) Value of a HO Brass PRR N1 Samhongsa From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Value of a HO Brass PRR N1 Samhongsa Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 21:00:40 +0000 > >From: "Sam Vastano" > >Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Value of a HO Brass PRR N1 Samhongsa > >Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:13:01 -0500 > >>From: "Larry Reynolds" > >>Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Value of a HO Brass PRR N1 Samhongsa > >>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:04:47 -0500 > >>From: "Sam Vastano" > >>Subject: [PRR] (PRR) Value of a HO Brass PRR N1 Samhongsa From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:14:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Value of a HO Brass PRR N1 Samhongsa MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hey Sam, Just now reading your post. Ahhh, I see your adding one of these beasts to your collection. Good Model. Remember, very close to where you live was once the stomping ground for the prototype's at Mahoningtown, Pa. Especially during the winter months when the lakes were froze, these N1s could be found in storage there. Then once the thaw, they came back alive hauling those Hopper Car loads to and from the ports of Lake Erie to Conway among other destinations. I used to have 2 of those Gems N1s. Both nice slow runners. Good for slow drags. In fact I think one was my second Brass purchase ever. Paid $125.00 in 1982 from David Hitt? Paid $100.00 for a second several years later and traded that one for a Gem S2. Deals like that are still around but getting tougher to find. Your $375.00 isn't too bad. I sold mine off and eventually picked up a Westside N1 for $250.00 because to my eye, it looked better overall. Runs about the same as well as it was built by Sammy. Someday I will probably upgrade again. Those Challenger Import N1's sure look good!. A nice N6b would look nice bringing up the rear either on a Caboose Hop or on the tail of one of those drags......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "J. Smith" Subject: [PRR] side rod removal on the BLI M1 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:39:37 -0500 Some of you guys mentioned that you removed the side rods on the BLI M1. = I was wondering what size wrench is needed. I do not have a large = variety of tools, in fact I do not own any nut wrenches yet. Thanks for = your kind response. J ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C3EFF4.78E63F80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Some of you guys mentioned that you = removed the=20 side rods on the BLI M1.  I was wondering what size wrench is = needed. =20 I do not have a large variety of tools, in fact I do not own any = nut=20 wrenches yet.  Thanks for your kind response.
 
J
------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C3EFF4.78E63F80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 17:02:16 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] proto modelers meet in Valley Forge From: Brad Bower From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR-Modeling] Re: [PRR] (PRR) Value of a HO Brass PRR N1 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 17:00:23 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 In-Reply-To: <15290-402949C2-6713@storefull-3116.bay.webtv.net> Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Re: A nice N6b would look nice bringing up the rear either on a Caboose Hop or on the tail of one of those drags Caboose hop? How about with 80 class H21's or 90 class GL's with ex-lake ore from the Erie dock bound for Sharon and two class N1s on the rear shoving! Geeze Sam that will only cost your about $700 more for the motive power. I'm sure the wife would drool over that drag commin down the line. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 17:28:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] side rod removal on the BLI M1 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: J. It may have been me. I needed to remove the main crank pins due to the constant rubbing of the rod surface and crank surface. When weathering, the rubbng kept the paint from staying. Thus a shiney spot circular shape occured. I didn't have the correct size crank pin screw driver in my arsenal of tools either. I used fine needle nose pliers to loosen the crank pin and then used the driver crank wrench from the BLI T1 to remove them entirely. Then reversed the process when putting back in. The little wrench from the T1 wasn't a perfect fit to actually get a good fit to break loose the tightness of the screw so that is why I used needle nose pliers to loosen it. Just be careful you don't squeeze to hard to mar the shape or scratch anything if the pliers slip......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] (PRR) Value of a HO Brass PRR N1 Samhongsa Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:27:48 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] (PRR) Value of a HO Brass PRR N1 Samhongsa Thread-Index: AcPwGkqzXRWnUtaCQGyEfF3TL33WpQACpu2w From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: , "Ted Andrews" , "PRR-Talk" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Feb 2004 22:27:49.0870 (UTC) FILETIME=[1DAAE0E0:01C3F025] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: One of the problems with the early Korean models was quality control. In any given run, some operate like Swiss watches, while others cannot be repaired. So it's hit or miss. -----Original Message----- From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 3:01 PM To: Ted Andrews; PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Value of a HO Brass PRR N1 Samhongsa I bought mine new in either '69 or '70. It was $110.00 and my first brass engine. I made payments on it for about 6 months! Then I got it home and it was a dog. It now sits in pieces in my junk box as I haven't had time to complete fitting a Bowser mechanism into it so it at least completes a lap around the room. I must have gotten the one bad one. > Sam: >=20 > Congrats on the purchase. I know you will enjoy this engine. If divorce is=20 > an outcome of this purchase, please make sure you get the engine in the=20 > settlement! :-P >=20 > Ted >=20 >=20 > >From: "Sam Vastano" > >To: pennsyrr@rcn.com, PRR-Talk@dsop.com, PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Value of a HO Brass PRR N1 Samhongsa > >Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:13:01 -0500 > > > >Larry, Group, > > > >I went and purchased this model... I got it for 375.00 including shipping.=20 > >I have to break the news to the wife tonight!!! Might be in divorce court=20 > >tomorrow!!!! I missed out on one that needed some help at Mitchell's It is=20 > >still on the internet but the salesman said that it was sold over the > >weekend. > > > >Thanks for help in the decision making.... > > > >SamV > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>From: "Larry Reynolds" > >>To: "Sam Vastano"=20 > >>,, > >>Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) Value of a HO Brass PRR N1 Samhongsa > >>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:04:47 -0500 > >> > >>Sam: > >> > >>I purchased one of these Samhongsa N-1's about five years ago. I paid=20 > >>$300. > >>I have to tell you that it's one of the finest running engines on my > >>roster. > >>Runs just about every session, smoothly and flawlessly. > >> > >>Larry > >>----- Original Message ----- > >>From: "Sam Vastano" > >>To: ; > >>Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 7:59 AM > >>Subject: [PRR] (PRR) Value of a HO Brass PRR N1 Samhongsa > >> > >> > >> > Group, > >> > > >> > Since I am not savy of the value of brass, can someone give me a approx > >> > value of one of these? Not painted, Slight tarnish, looks to be almost=20 > >>no > >> > wheel wear. I am looking to buy it not sell it... > >> > > >> > Here is a link to a photo of the model. > >> > > >>http://groups.msn.com/Samstoys/samstrainphotos.msnw?action=3DShowPhoto&= P hotoID=3D5 > 1 > >> > > >> > Thanks for the input.... > >> > > >> > SamV > >> > > >> > _________________________________________________________________ > >> > Let the advanced features & services of MSN Internet Software maximize > >>your > >> > online time. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200363ave/direct/01/ > >> > > >> > > >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > >> > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Create your own personal Web page with the info you use most, at My MSN.=20 > >http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/ > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. >=20 > _________________________________________________________________ > Let the advanced features & services of MSN Internet Software maximize your=20 > online time. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200363ave/direct/01/ >=20 >=20 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PGrace" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: Hammerhead Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:57:48 -0000 Doug, The November 1998 RMC had an article on doing 8445, while it does not = cover all the detail of the trainphone antenna it is=20 fairly useful for most of the conversion... Patrick=20 www.prr.org.uk ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ELDEN GATWOOD=20 To: 'L. Heintz' ; prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 6:15 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: Hammerhead 8445 was not one of the single-lamp RS3's the PRR got. Those were the = 8900 series ones (I think) that were produced in about '51? 8445 was one = of the last ones before Alco went to the later carbody, and came = as-built with the dual beams in that PRR-ordered vertical configuration. = You can see it in the builders photos. =20 Elden =20 -----Original Message----- From: L. Heintz [mailto:lheintz2@rochester.rr.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 9:25 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] RE: Hammerhead =20 Bill Volkmer's photos from 66/67 show the 8445 with a dual headlamps. = The lamp in his photos appears to be a standard bolt in unit. In its present = look a plate has been welded into this opening with just the lamp(s) unit bolted on. = When this change occurred is not clear ,but, there is some speculation = that it may have been delivered with a single lamp. Does anyone have = older photos of this engine ? =20 Tiger Valley Models in Phelps,NY makes all kinds of Alco models and = had them a couple of years ago. Try the link below and email them for = parts info.=20 =20 http://www.lynnet.com/~tigervalley/ =20 In case you don't know the 8445 now LVRR 211 is still alive and = kicking,albeit slightly modified. Check this link and click on the photo = files at the bottom of the page. =20 http://www.rochnrhs.org/rgvrrm_lv211.html =20 Lynn =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C3F029.4D7478F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Doug,
 
The November 1998 RMC had an article on = doing 8445,=20 while it does not cover all the detail of the trainphone antenna it is=20
fairly useful for most of the=20 conversion...
 
Patrick
 
www.prr.org.uk
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 ELDEN=20 GATWOOD
To: 'L. Heintz' ; prr-talk@dsop.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, = 2004 6:15=20 PM
Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: = Hammerhead

8445 was = not one of=20 the single-lamp RS3's the PRR got. =20 Those were the 8900 series ones (I think) that were produced in = about=20 '51? 8445 was one of the last ones before Alco went to the later = carbody, and=20 came as-built with the dual beams in that PRR-ordered vertical=20 configuration.  You can = see it in=20 the builders photos.

 

Elden

 

-----Original=20 Message-----
From: = L. Heintz=20 [mailto:lheintz2@rochester.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, = 2004 9:25=20 AM
To:=20 prr-talk@dsop.com
Subject:=20 [PRR] RE: Hammerhead

 

Bill Volkmer's photos=20 from 66/67 show the 8445 with a dual headlamps. The=20 lamp

in his photos = appears to be a=20 standard bolt in unit. In its present look a plate=20 has

been welded into this = opening with=20 just the lamp(s) unit bolted on. When this change occurred = is not=20 clear ,but, there is some speculation that it may have been=20 delivered with a single lamp. Does anyone have older photos of this = engine=20 ?

 

Tiger Valley Models in = Phelps,NY=20 makes all kinds of Alco models and had them a couple of years ago. Try = the=20 link below and email them for parts=20 info. 

 

http://www.lynnet.com/~tiger= valley/

 

In case you don't know = the 8445=20 now LVRR 211 is still alive and kicking,albeit slightly modified. = Check this=20 link and click on the photo files at the bottom of the=20 page.

 

http://www.rochnrhs.or= g/rgvrrm_lv211.html

 

Lynn

 

= ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C3F029.4D7478F0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Pete Reinhold" Subject: RE: [PRR] Madison WI Train Show Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 17:41:22 -0600 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20040205172813.01c7d7e8@mail.vbe.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Randy and List, This is the second largest train show in Wisconsin with over 300 vendor tables and many, many layouts. Check out the link http://www.scwd-nmra.org/febshow.php Come say hi to Dayna, Randy and myself this weekend. We speak Pennsy. Pete Reinhold ---- Any PRR-Talk listers coming to the Madison show next weekend look for our booth at the show. You never know where your booth will be, but it would be nice if we could get a booth next to fellow PRR-Talk lister Pete Reinhold. Dayna & Randy www.trainstuffllc.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 19:48:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] A possible Trade? MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, I have an idea. Anyone here interested? My second BLI M1b has arrived at my local dealer. I just got a phone call and he said it is an undec M1b. Oh well, I had ordered M1b 6716 or what ever number that was. So, my new idea is. I would now like to model M1b 6783. This loco retained the as built Headlight and Generator configuration wth Solid Drop Coupler Pilot. As is, the BLI M1b comes fully modernized. To get what I what in the 6783, I need the Smokebox and Generator from a BLI M1a. Now, those of you with still undec M1a's. Would you be interested in swapping SmokeBoxes/Headlights/Generators for like same from my M1b? This would give you a second possible M1a version with Footboard Pilots and Modern Headlight/Generator locations which exsisted on many M1a's. This would give me my M1b 6783 features I need as well.. Any takers? Email me off list. This is prelimanry thinking at this point but most likely will be a go. Thanks, Gary PS: If you are afraid of damage to your loco by taking parts off, don't be. The smoke box front is just press fit on as is the generator on top. Of course rewiring for a working headlight bulb will need to be looked into. Myself I do not really care about a working headlight on the 6783. MV lens is fine for me. Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:39:57 EST Subject: [PRR] USRA hopper cars Forgive me if I am the only one who does not know this, but did the PRR have any USRA hopper cars? If so, what was their class number? Lee Rainey --part1_46.4692244a.2d5ae1ed_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Forgive me if I am the only one who= does not know this, but did the PRR have any USRA hopper cars? If so, what=20= was their class number?

Lee Rainey --part1_46.4692244a.2d5ae1ed_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 21:05:12 -0500 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Hammerheads. Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: RWxkZW4sCldoaWNoIFJTMyBkaWQgeW91IHN0YXJ0IHdpdGg/IFRoZSBBdGxhcyB3b3VsZCBi ZSBteSBzZWNvbmQgdG8gbGFzdCBjaG9pY2UuIFdheSB0b28gbW9uYXkgcHJvYmxlbXMgd2l0 aCBtaXN0YWtlcyB0b29sZWQgaW4uIAoKQWxzbyBUaWdlciBWYWxsZXkgbWFrZXMgYSBjb252 ZXJzaW9uIGZvciB0aGUgaGFtbWVyaGVhZCBhbmQgd2lsbCByZWR1Y2UgdGhlIGNvbnZlcnNp b24gdGltZSBhbGJlaXQgbWV0YWwuIExvdCdzIG9mIHdvcmsgcmVnYXJkbGVzcy4gVGhlICJi YXN0YXJkIGNoaWxkIG5ldmVyIiBtYWRlIGl0IHBhc3QgQ29ud2F5IHNvIEkgd2lsbCBub3Qg aGF2ZSB0byBtb2RlbCB0aGF0IEJydXRlLiAKCkdyZWcgTWFydGluIAoKCkVMREVOLkdBVFdP T0RAdHRpc2cuY29tIHdyaXRlczoKCj4gRG91ZzsKPiBUaGUgb25seSBvbmUgdGhlIFBSUiBo YWQgd2FzIDg0NDU7IHllcywgdmVydGljYWwgaGVhZGxpZ2h0LCBlcXVpcG1lbnQgYm94ZXMs IEkgbWFkZSBteSBvd24gc2hvcnQgaG9vZCBraXQsIGJ1dCBUcmFpbiBTdGF0aW9uIFByb2R1 Y3RzLCBub3cgRGV0YWlsIEFzc29jaWF0ZXMgbWFya2V0cyBvbmUuICBJdCBkb2VzIG5vdCBo YXZlIGFsbCB0aGUgcHJvcGVyIHZlbnRzLiAgSSBhZGRlZCBhIGR5bmFtaWMgYnJha2UgdmVu dCBncmlsbGUgZnJvbSBhbm90aGVyIERBIHNldCBmb3IgQWxjbyBkeW5hbWljIHNldCB1cHMu ICBUaGVyZSBhcmUgYWxzbyB0d28gcGlwZSB2ZW50cyBvbiB0aGUgcmlnaHQgc2lkZSBvZiB0 aGUgcm9vZiwgcGx1cyBhIHNxdWFyZSByb3VuZGVkIG9mZiB2ZW50LiAgUGx1cyB0aGUgdHdv IHNpZGUgdmVudHMgdGhhdCBoYWQgbG91dmVycyBpbiB0aGVtLiAgSSBtYWRlIG1pbmUgZnJv bSBsb3V2ZXIgbWF0ZXJpYWwgSSBib3VnaHQgb25jZSwgYnV0IHlvdSBjb3VsZCB1c2UgR1Ag c2lkZXMgdmVudHMgc3RhY2sgb25lIG9uIHRvcCBvZiBhbm90aGVyLCBpbiBhIGN1dCBvdXQg aG9sZS4gIENoZWNrIHRoZSBwaG90b3MuICBUaGUgdG9wIG9mIHRoZSBzaG9ydCBob29kIGhh ZCBhIHJpdmV0ZWQgcGFuZWwgSSBtYWRlIGZyb20gMDA1IHNoZWV0IHdpdGggZW1ib3NzZWQg cml2ZXRzLiAgWW91IGFsc28gbmVlZCB0aGUgQ2FsU2NhbGUgYW50ZW5uYSBzZXQgYW5kIERB IGRyb3Agc3RlcHMgYW5kIGEgd2F0ZXItY29vbGVkIHR1cmJvIHN0YWNrIGFuZCB0aGUgbGF0 ZSBzdGVhbS1lcXVpcHBlZCB0YW5rIGFycmFuZ2VtZW50LiAgSSBtYWRlIG15IG93biBmcm9t IHRoZWlyIHBhcnRzIGFuZCBzdHlyZW5lLiAgT2gsIHRoZSBjb3JuZXIgbnVtYmVyIGJvYXJk cyBjYW1lIGZyb20gc29tZSBwaWVjZXMgRGV0YWlscyBXZXN0IG1ha2VzIHdpdGggdGhlIGJh Y2sgZmlsZWQgZG93biB0byBhIG5pY2UgY3VydmF0dXJlLiAgU29tZSBzaWRlIHZlbnRzIG5l ZWQgdG8gYmUgc2FuZGVkIG9mZiB0aGUgc2lkZSBkb29yczsgc2VlIHBob3Rvcy4gIEkgb25s eSB3aXNoIHRoZSBiYXNpYyBib2R5IGhhZCBiZWVuIGJldHRlciB0byBzdGFydCAKPiB3aXRo LiAgV2UgcmVhbGx5IG5lZWQgYSBncmVhdCBSUzMgdG8gYmVnaW4gd2l0aC4KPiAgCj4gRWxk ZW4K ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] USRA hopper cars Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 21:07:59 -0500 Lee Rainey asked: Forgive me if I am the only one who does not know this, but did the PRR = have any USRA hopper cars? If so, what was their class number? The answer is yes. Class GLd, PRR 220000-220299 (ex-LIRR 5000-5299), = 300 cars. See Teichmoeller, p.140. Ben Hom ------=_NextPart_000_0121_01C3F019.F68B9FA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Lee Rainey asked:
Forgive me if I am the only one who does not know this, but did the = PRR=20 have any USRA hopper cars? If so, what was their class number?
 
The answer is yes.  Class GLd, PRR 220000-220299 (ex-LIRR = 5000-5299),=20 300 cars.  See Teichmoeller, p.140.
 
 
Ben Hom
------=_NextPart_000_0121_01C3F019.F68B9FA0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:04:10 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Hammerheads. From: "Fred in Vt." Subject: [PRR] Craw type face Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:09:10 -0500 List, Vol22-#3 of the Keystone lists the following for Craw Clarendon = type>>>>Scarlet's Letters Inc.,18 East Main St.,Richmond, Va. 23219 = [804]-780-2699. This firm has a phototypositer containing this type, and can provide = headline copy up to 1 inch. Those who need now have one source to try. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3F022.82B09230 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
List,
       = Vol22-#3 of=20 the Keystone lists the following for Craw Clarendon=20 type>>>>Scarlet's Letters Inc.,18 East Main St.,Richmond, = Va.=20 23219  [804]-780-2699.
This firm has a phototypositer = containing this=20 type, and can provide headline copy up to 1 inch.
Those who need  now have one = source to=20 try.
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3F022.82B09230-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] E-unit question Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 00:25:36 -0500 PRR-Listers: What were the PRR E-7's and E-8's geared for? I read that they had gear = ratios to enable them to go as fast as 100 mph. Was this true? TIA Ted Andrews ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3F035.91F52180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
PRR-Listers:
 
What were the PRR E-7's and E-8's geared for? I read that they had = gear=20 ratios to enable them to go as fast as 100 mph. Was this true?
 
TIA
 
Ted Andrews
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3F035.91F52180-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 00:20:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Late Nite Trivia MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, Thought I would throw this question out to the masses. In the PRR scheme of things, what does the term "Glory Barn" refer too? .....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 00:32:17 EST Subject: [PRR] Z74 Maryland In a message dated 2/9/04 12:24:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: RE: [PRR] Z74 business cars > From: "Bill Volkmer" > Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 08:29:59 -0500 > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01C3EEE6.E9121130 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="us-ascii" > > All business cars in the fleet during my watch (1958-68) had four wheel > trucks. I seem to remember the 7504 had the most trouble with being a > rough rider and they tried several variations of shock absorbers and > snubbers. 7507 was either Quaker City or William Penn. I think 7504 > was Wm. Penn so 07 would have been Quaker City. 7504 was usually used > by Greenough and 120 was Jim Symes. 90, the Delaware was Bevan's car. > The only other car in service was 7510 the Pittsburgher which was Mort > Smith's car and was based in Pittsburgh. > > -----Original Message----- > From: J. Smith [mailto:stacktalk@dejazzd.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 5:11 PM > To: prr-talk > Subject: [PRR] Z74 business cars > > > I am interested in knowing if all of the Z74 business cars had their 6 > wheel trucks replaced with 4 wheel trucks. Assuming that they all had 6 > wheel trucks to begin with. Would there have been any other > modifications done to these cars other than trucks? > > I am particularly interested in car #7507 which was named Maryland. My > plan is to convert my Bachmann prewar car into a c1950 version. > > > Thanks, > > Jeff Smith Do anybody's notes but mine show #7505 named the Maryland from 1931 to 1955 (at least)? I show no other number for the name -- which is remarkable among PRR business cars. In 1945 and again in 1955, my notes say the Maryland was assigned to "GM Philadelphia". I can't immediately cite the source of this info... Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_12e.3b600622.2d5b1861_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 2/9/04 12:24:24=20= PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:

Subject: RE: [PRR] Z74 business= cars
From: "Bill Volkmer" <bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 08:29:59 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=3D_NextPart_000_0081_01C3EEE6.E9121130
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset=3D"us-ascii"

All business cars in the fleet during my watch (1958-68) had four wheel
trucks.  I seem to remember the 7504 had the most trouble with being a<= BR> rough rider and they tried several variations of shock absorbers and
snubbers.   7507 was either Quaker City or William Penn.  I t= hink 7504
was Wm. Penn so 07 would have been Quaker City.  7504 was usually used<= BR> by Greenough and 120 was Jim Symes.  90, the Delaware was Bevan's car.<= BR> The only other car in service was 7510 the Pittsburgher which was Mort
Smith's car and was based in Pittsburgh.

-----Original Message-----
From: J. Smith [mailto:stacktalk@dejazzd.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 5:11 PM
To: prr-talk
Subject: [PRR] Z74 business cars


I am interested in knowing if all of the Z74 business cars had their 6
wheel trucks replaced with 4 wheel trucks.  Assuming that they all had=20= 6
wheel trucks to begin with.   Would there have been any other
modifications done to these cars other than trucks?

I am particularly interested in car #7507 which was named Maryland.  My=
plan is to convert my Bachmann prewar car into a c1950 version.


Thanks,

Jeff Smith


Do anybody's notes but mine show #7505 named the Maryland from 1931 to 1955=20= (at least)?  I show no other number for the name -- which is remarkable= among PRR business cars.

In 1945 and again in 1955, my notes say the Maryland was assigned to "GM Phi= ladelphia".  I can't immediately cite the source of this info...

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_12e.3b600622.2d5b1861_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] E-unit question Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 00:49:27 -0500 Ted, The PRR's 109-K Classification and Description of Locomotives and = Tenders of June 2, 1952 lists the maximum locomotive speed for classes = EP-20 (E7) and EP-22 (E8) as 98 m.p.h. Jack Consoli ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ted Andrews=20 To: PRR Talk=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 12:25 AM Subject: [PRR] E-unit question PRR-Listers: What were the PRR E-7's and E-8's geared for? I read that they had = gear ratios to enable them to go as fast as 100 mph. Was this true? TIA Ted Andrews ------=_NextPart_000_015A_01C3F038.E6A7D760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Ted,
 
The PRR's 109-K Classification and Description = of=20 Locomotives and Tenders of June 2, 1952 lists the maximum = locomotive speed=20 for classes EP-20 (E7) and EP-22 (E8) as 98 m.p.h.
 
Jack Consoli
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ted = Andrews=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, = 2004 12:25=20 AM
Subject: [PRR] E-unit = question

PRR-Listers:
 
What were the PRR E-7's and E-8's geared for? I read that they = had gear=20 ratios to enable them to go as fast as 100 mph. Was this true?
 
TIA
 
Ted Andrews
------=_NextPart_000_015A_01C3F038.E6A7D760-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRTRAINS@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 03:43:00 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Trainmasters Pennsy. only had nine of these correct? --part1_190.25a01bbb.2d5b4514_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Pennsy. only had nine of these corr= ect? --part1_190.25a01bbb.2d5b4514_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Trainmasters Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 08:15:41 -0500 That is correct. -----Original Message----- From: PRRTRAINS@aol.com [mailto:PRRTRAINS@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 3:43 AM To: pennsy@vbe.com; jeff@pennsyrr.com; prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Trainmasters Pennsy. only had nine of these correct? ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C3F077.3D914190 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Message
That=20 is correct.
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRRTRAINS@aol.com [mailto:PRRTRAINS@aol.com]
Sent: = Wednesday,=20 February 11, 2004 3:43 AM
To: pennsy@vbe.com; = jeff@pennsyrr.com;=20 prr-talk@dsop.com
Subject: Re: [PRR]=20 Trainmasters

Pennsy. only = had nine of=20 these correct?
------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C3F077.3D914190-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Z74 Maryland Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 08:18:43 -0500 We also had car 180 in Philadelphia circa 1958-63. I believe it was the Pennsylvania but I am not at all sure. Never bothered to write them down or photograph them. -----Original Message----- From: RickTipton@aol.com [mailto:RickTipton@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 12:32 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Z74 Maryland In a message dated 2/9/04 12:24:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: Subject: RE: [PRR] Z74 business cars From: "Bill Volkmer" Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 08:29:59 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01C3EEE6.E9121130 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" All business cars in the fleet during my watch (1958-68) had four wheel trucks. I seem to remember the 7504 had the most trouble with being a rough rider and they tried several variations of shock absorbers and snubbers. 7507 was either Quaker City or William Penn. I think 7504 was Wm. Penn so 07 would have been Quaker City. 7504 was usually used by Greenough and 120 was Jim Symes. 90, the Delaware was Bevan's car. The only other car in service was 7510 the Pittsburgher which was Mort Smith's car and was based in Pittsburgh. -----Original Message----- From: J. Smith [mailto:stacktalk@dejazzd.com] Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 5:11 PM To: prr-talk Subject: [PRR] Z74 business cars I am interested in knowing if all of the Z74 business cars had their 6 wheel trucks replaced with 4 wheel trucks. Assuming that they all had 6 wheel trucks to begin with. Would there have been any other modifications done to these cars other than trucks? I am particularly interested in car #7507 which was named Maryland. My plan is to convert my Bachmann prewar car into a c1950 version. Thanks, Jeff Smith Do anybody's notes but mine show #7505 named the Maryland from 1931 to 1955 (at least)? I show no other number for the name -- which is remarkable among PRR business cars. In 1945 and again in 1955, my notes say the Maryland was assigned to "GM Philadelphia". I can't immediately cite the source of this info... Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01C3F077.AB040E10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Message
We=20 also had car 180 in Philadelphia circa 1958-63.  I believe it was = the=20 Pennsylvania but I am not at all sure.  Never bothered to write = them down=20 or photograph them.
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 RickTipton@aol.com [mailto:RickTipton@aol.com]
Sent: = Wednesday,=20 February 11, 2004 12:32 AM
To: = PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject:=20 [PRR] Z74 Maryland

In a message = dated 2/9/04=20 12:24:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:

Subject: RE: [PRR] Z74 business cars
From: "Bill = Volkmer"=20 <bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 = 08:29:59=20 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME=20 = format.

------=3D_NextPart_000_0081_01C3EEE6.E9121130
Content-T= ype:=20 text/plain;
  = 7bit

All business cars in the fleet during my watch (1958-68) = had=20 four wheel
trucks.  I seem to remember the 7504 had the most = trouble=20 with being a
rough rider and they tried several variations of = shock=20 absorbers and
snubbers.   7507 was either Quaker City = or=20 William Penn.  I think 7504
was Wm. Penn so 07 would have = been=20 Quaker City.  7504 was usually used
by Greenough and 120 was = Jim=20 Symes.  90, the Delaware was Bevan's car.
The only other car = in=20 service was 7510 the Pittsburgher which was Mort
Smith's car and = was=20 based in Pittsburgh.

-----Original Message-----
From: J. = Smith=20 [mailto:stacktalk@dejazzd.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 = 5:11=20 PM
To: prr-talk
Subject: [PRR] Z74 business cars


I = am=20 interested in knowing if all of the Z74 business cars had their = 6
wheel=20 trucks replaced with 4 wheel trucks.  Assuming that they all = had=20 6
wheel trucks to begin with.   Would there have been = any=20 other
modifications done to these cars other than trucks? =

I am=20 particularly interested in car #7507 which was named Maryland.  = My
plan is to convert my Bachmann prewar car into a c1950=20 version.


Thanks,

Jeff Smith


Do = anybody's=20 notes but mine show #7505 named the Maryland from 1931 to 1955 (at=20 least)?  I show no other number for the name -- which is = remarkable among=20 PRR business cars.

In 1945 and again in 1955, my notes say the = Maryland=20 was assigned to "GM Philadelphia".  I can't immediately cite the = source=20 of this info...

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania = Railroad=20 Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania = Railroad=20 and especially PRR Lines West = ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01C3F077.AB040E10-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RBurg74133@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 08:28:19 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] South Wind ACL Cars - About car SW45? This car is a heavyweight rebuilt from plan 3584 or 3584a 10 section drawing room car into plan 4179 6 section 4 roomette 4 double bedroom in 1951. The car names were in the FIR series all were scrapped by the mid 60's Ray Burghart SPF -------------------------------1076506099 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
This car is a heavyweight rebuilt from plan 3584 or 3584a 10 secti= on=20 drawing room car into plan 4179  6 section 4 roomette 4 double bed= room=20 in 1951. The car names were in the FIR series all were scrapped by the mid=20 60's
 
Ray Burghart SPF
 -------------------------------1076506099-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 08:47:14 -0500 From: "J T Roberts" Subject: Re: [PRR] E-unit question From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Trainmasters Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:33:28 -0500 Re: Pennsy. only had nine of these correct? Yes, class FS24m (PC class FRS24) - FM Train Master model H24-66, numbered 8699-8707 inclusive, merger numbers 6700-6708 inclusive. Al ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C3F082.1B91A390 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Message
Re: Pennsy.=20 only had nine of these correct?
 
Yes, = class FS24m (PC=20 class FRS24) - FM Train Master model H24-66, numbered = 8699-8707=20 inclusive, merger numbers 6700-6708 inclusive.
 
Al
 
------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C3F082.1B91A390-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PGrace" Subject: Re: [PRR] Hammerheads. Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:50:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Processed: mail.aspects.net, Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:50:52 +0000 (not processed: spam filter disabled) X-MDRemoteIP: 194.164.15.168 X-Return-Path: pgrace@aspects.net X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Reply-To: pgrace@aspects.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Greg, If you can get the Stewart is easiest as it has separate hoods (ideally you fit a MDC drive unit), and Detail Associates do a high hood conversion kit. Patrick Grace ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 2:05 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Hammerheads. > Elden, > Which RS3 did you start with? The Atlas would be my second to last choice. Way too monay problems with mistakes tooled in. > > Also Tiger Valley makes a conversion for the hammerhead and will reduce the conversion time albeit metal. Lot's of work regardless. The "bastard child never" made it past Conway so I will not have to model that Brute. > > Greg Martin > > > ELDEN.GATWOOD@ttisg.com writes: > > > Doug; > > The only one the PRR had was 8445; yes, vertical headlight, equipment boxes, I made my own short hood kit, but Train Station Products, now Detail Associates markets one. It does not have all the proper vents. I added a dynamic brake vent grille from another DA set for Alco dynamic set ups. There are also two pipe vents on the right side of the roof, plus a square rounded off vent. Plus the two side vents that had louvers in them. I made mine from louver material I bought once, but you could use GP sides vents stack one on top of another, in a cut out hole. Check the photos. The top of the short hood had a riveted panel I made from 005 sheet with embossed rivets. You also need the CalScale antenna set and DA drop steps and a water-cooled turbo stack and the late steam-equipped tank arrangement. I made my own from their parts and styrene. Oh, the corner number boards came from some pieces Details West makes with the back filed down to a nice curvature. Some side vents need to be sanded off the side doors; see photos. I only wish the basic body had been better to start > > with. We really need a great RS3 to begin with. > > > > Elden > SڲȬµ©Ü{­?Øb²X¬¶T^jǯSÈ­?Ûiÿùb²Û²S\ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:09:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Hammerheads. MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, Sorry for this poor pic but some may not know what a Hammerhead RS3 is and no idea what it loos like. I did this model way back when the Atlas RS3's first came out. I don't think any "hammerhead" kit was available at that time. What I did to get this built was used the short hood from a old AHM RS2 I had lying around. Can't remember if I used the top half or the bottom half when mated with the Atlas top or bottom half. The result was a good fit anyway. Too bad I had to put the foriegn paint job on it though...... http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/wm2.jpg ......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:44:09 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Trainmasters X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-7 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: aurora7@juno.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On July 04, 1970, there were three I remember being in Altoona's scrapline. Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "There are no stupid questions, but there are many inquisitive idiots." ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:27:42 -0500 Subject: [PRR] TANGENT: List Admin Comments From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <378E9F62-5CAF-11D8-BC83-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Greetings, all! A few comments... 1. There are a lot of Jerry's on the list these days. I have received many off-list e-mails from folks who think I am the Jerry that was referred to elsewhere. When responding to a "Jerry", please try to use a last initial, or something, that will differentiate. 2. Some lists REQUIRE that you sign your posts with your real name. I have had a few people suggest I do the same. I do not require it, nor am I going to require it at this time. However, I personally see no reason why you cannot sign your name to a post, especially when you use a cryptic e-mail address. Please consider using a signature that includes your name, or at least your first name and initial. Again, not required, but preferred. 3. Since inception in 1996, this list has prefixed message subjects with [PRR]. Unfortunately, the owner of the PENNSYmodeler group on YeeHaw saw fit to use the same prefix for that list when it was created in 2002. There has been some confusion and I have received some off-list e-mails about that list. Sorry, I can't help you there. If you are on that list perhaps you can suggest to the owner that the prefix be changed. No, PRR-talk -- the original PRR prototype/modeling list -- will not be changing its prefix. Thank you! ---------------------------------------- Listmaster listmaster@dsop.com Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:44:52 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Chicago Division Employee Timetables From: John Clark From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:49:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] "Focal Orange" N5C with antenna MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List.... I need help tracking down numbers of the Focal Orange N5C cabin cars with trainphone antenna. I know of three: 477926,477901, and 478015. Any info on this group of cabin cars would be greatly appreciated. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:49:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] "Focal Orange" N5C with antenna List.... I need help tracking down numbers of the Focal Orange N5C cabin cars with trainphone antenna. I know of three: 477926,477901, and 478015. Any info on this group of cabin cars would be greatly appreciated. Dave Hopson ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Send the freshest Valentine's flowers with a FREE vase from only $29.99! Shipped direct from the grower with a 7 day freshness guarantee and prices so low you save 30-55% off retail! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_iAw9B/xdlHAA/3jkFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: List Member From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Bowser H21a CK N Scale Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 21:04:56 -0500 To: PRR-talk , PRR-N-Scale X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.612) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Public Service Announcement... Bowser's N scale H21a hoppers in Circle Keystone livery have been shipped in a 4th series of 12 road numbers. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 21:29:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Late Nite Trivia MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, No guessers for my trivia from last night? A few more hours and I will get back with the answer....Gary In the PRR scheme of things, what does the term "Glory Barn" refer to? Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] KS Tower, Warsaw, Indiana; March 7, 1965 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 22:05:53 -0500 Train 22, the Manhattan Limited arrives at 1:05pm. It then departs to = the east at 1:12pm. It is noted on the tower trainsheet "7504 on rear."=20 Sounds like a business car. The first such report at Warsaw in 1965. More Warsaw tower surprises to come! Ted Andrews ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C3F0EB.378BDE80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Train 22, the Manhattan Limited arrives at 1:05pm. It then departs = to the=20 east at 1:12pm. It is noted on the tower trainsheet "7504 on rear." =
 
Sounds like a business car. The first such report at Warsaw in = 1965.
 
More Warsaw tower surprises to come!
 
 
Ted Andrews
------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C3F0EB.378BDE80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: [PRR] Reconstitute Acrylic Paint Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:50:16 -0500 Seem to remember an article or item somewhere on reconstituting acrylic paint. One of the paint manufacturers even has some stuff labeled for it. Anybody out there remember this or tried this? Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3F0CF.E4033DA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

Seem to remember an article or item somewhere on reconstituting acrylic paint. One of the paint manufacturers even has = some stuff labeled for it. Anybody out there remember this or tried this? =

 

Tom Mahon

Merrimack, NH

 

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3F0CF.E4033DA0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: [PRR] G-30 Composite gondola Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:12:16 -0500 I'm currently building a Funero & Cam. resin G-30 composite gondola. I = can't find a picture of one. Can anyone tell me if they're supposed to = have a foot hold/step in each corner. If so are they simply rectangular = or do that have the diagonal offset in them. =20 The instructions are less than clear and their photo of the kit doesn't = show the step but they include steps with the kit. Any help would be appreciated. Kris ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C3F0F4.7D74D100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

I'm currently building a Funero & = Cam. resin=20 G-30 composite gondola.  I can't find a picture of one.  Can = anyone=20 tell me if they're supposed to have a foot hold/step in each = corner.  If so=20 are they simply rectangular or do that have the diagonal offset in = them. =20
 
The instructions are less than clear = and their=20 photo of the kit doesn't show the step but they include steps with the=20 kit.
 
Any help would be = appreciated.
 
Kris
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C3F0F4.7D74D100-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 20:57:26 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Those watermarked service letters (long) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 21:13:21 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] G-30 Composite gondola From: "L. Heintz" Subject: [PRR] RE: Glory barn Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:30:43 -0500 I read a fiction story in Railroad mag years ago and it mentioned the = "Glorybarn" . I think the writer was referring to the roundhouse. LH ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C3F0FF.73BD0500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
I read a fiction story in Railroad mag = years ago=20 and it mentioned the "Glorybarn" .  I think the writer was = referring to the=20 roundhouse.
LH
------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C3F0FF.73BD0500-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "L. Heintz" Subject: [PRR] Fw: Glory barn Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 01:11:43 -0500 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: L. Heintz=20 To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 12:30 AM Subject: RE: Glory barn I read a fiction story in Railroad mag years ago and it mentioned the = "Glorybarn" . I think the writer was referring to the roundhouse. LH ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C3F105.2D7552E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: L.=20 Heintz
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 12:30 AM
Subject: RE: Glory barn

I read a fiction story in Railroad mag = years ago=20 and it mentioned the "Glorybarn" .  I think the writer was = referring to the=20 roundhouse.
LH
------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C3F105.2D7552E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Lambert passenger cars Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:13:17 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, I received 3 older Lambert HO PRR lightweight passenger cars to strip and repaint. They have white metal trucks that snap on. Just for my curiosity, does anyone know about how old these cars are? MUCH to my surprise, after a few minutes in the blast booth, the car is made entirely of nickel silver! I have never seen a model made of nickel silver. The owner said it was a brass color when he painted it many years ago. I will add photos to my website when they are completed. Thank You, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:32:38 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Spoof warning - Subject line "Hello" Just in case there's still somebody out there who needs to be warned -- I never use subject lines like "Hello", "Hi", or "Hiya". But some happy spammer is generating mail and using my screen name -- I've already gotten back multiple messages that happened to be undeliverable, addressed to other railfans and modelers. Some of these people are not even in my address book -- they're reached only through lists. My virus scan software has just been updated and claims that I harbor no viruses on my machine, so I conclude this stuff is being generated to target those of us on various rail interest lists. Be assured my name is being used without my consent. It amazes me a) on the one hand how screwed up the Internet is, and b) on the other hand, how useful it has become. Good luck... Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:32:32 EST Subject: [PRR] Warsaw IN and the 7504 In a message dated 2/11/04 11:08:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: KS Tower, Warsaw, Indiana; March 7, 1965 > From: "Ted Andrews" > Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 22:05:53 -0500 > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C3F0EB.378BDE80 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > > Train 22, the Manhattan Limited arrives at 1:05pm. It then departs to = > the east at 1:12pm. It is noted on the tower trainsheet "7504 on rear."=20 > > Sounds like a business car. The first such report at Warsaw in 1965. > > More Warsaw tower surprises to come! > > > Ted Andrews Neat stuff, Ted. In the fall, it was hard to leave the office in Fort Wayne and get much farther west before dark than Warsaw. But was often lucky to see traffic there. I'm guessing the 7504 was the William Penn in 1965, renamed from Baltimore in 1960 -- at least that's what my notes say. In 2001, this Z74D was donated to a museum group at Camp Atterbury, north of Columbus IN. The group is only 75 miles from here, but I'm ashamed to say I know very little about the progress of their restoration. Camp Atterbury was 1. a WW2 Army training camp. It still has reserve activities on base today. 2. named after General William Wallace Atterbury, an Indiana native and the only PRR president born on Lines West (The General was also named after WWA). Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_119.2ed9e70e.2d5ccc60_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 2/11/04 11:08:07= PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:

Subject: KS Tower, Warsaw, Indi= ana; March 7, 1965
From: "Ted Andrews" <Ted_Andrews@msn.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 22:05:53 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=3D_NextPart_000_000F_01C3F0EB.378BDE80
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset=3D"iso-8859-1"

Train 22, the Manhattan Limited arrives at 1:05pm. It then departs to =3D the east at 1:12pm. It is noted on the tower trainsheet "7504 on rear."=3D20=

Sounds like a business car. The first such report at Warsaw in 1965.

More Warsaw tower surprises to come!


Ted Andrews


Neat stuff, Ted.  In the fall, it was hard to leave the office in Fort=20= Wayne and get much farther west before dark than Warsaw.  But was often= lucky to see traffic there.

I'm guessing the 7504 was the William Penn in 1965, renamed from B= altimore in 1960 -- at least that's what my notes say.  In 2001, th= is Z74D was donated to a museum group at Camp Atterbury, north of Columbus I= N.  The group is only 75 miles from here, but I'm ashamed to say I know= very little about the progress of their restoration.

Camp Atterbury was
1. a WW2 Army training camp.  It still has reserve activities on base t= oday.
2. named after General William Wallace Atterbury, an Indiana native and the=20= only PRR president born on Lines West (The General was also named aft= er WWA).

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_119.2ed9e70e.2d5ccc60_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:32:38 EST Subject: [PRR] Spoof warning - Subject line "Hello" Just in case there's still somebody out there who needs to be warned -- I never use subject lines like "Hello", "Hi", or "Hiya". But some happy spammer is generating mail and using my screen name -- I've already gotten back multiple messages that happened to be undeliverable, addressed to other railfans and modelers. Some of these people are not even in my address book -- they're reached only through lists. My virus scan software has just been updated and claims that I harbor no viruses on my machine, so I conclude this stuff is being generated to target those of us on various rail interest lists. Be assured my name is being used without my consent. It amazes me a) on the one hand how screwed up the Internet is, and b) on the other hand, how useful it has become. Good luck... Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_172.25530bef.2d5ccc66_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Just in case there's still somebody= out there who needs to be warned --

I never use subject lines like "Hello", "Hi", or "Hiya".  But some happ= y spammer is generating mail and using my screen name -- I've already gotten= back multiple messages that happened to be undeliverable, addressed to othe= r railfans and modelers.  Some of these people are not even in my addre= ss book -- they're reached only through lists.

My virus scan software has just been updated and claims that I harbor no vir= uses on my machine, so I conclude this stuff is being generated to target th= ose of us on various rail interest lists.  Be assured my name is being=20= used without my consent.

It amazes me a) on the one hand how screwed up the Internet is, and b) on th= e other hand, how useful it has become.  Good luck...

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_172.25530bef.2d5ccc66_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:51:34 -0500 Subject: TANGENT Re: [PRR] Spoof warning - Subject line "Hello" From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: All: I am only addressing this as this is one of the more severe SPAM/Virus=20= issues that has plagued the net in quite a while. What Rick describes below is the recent SPAM/virus outbreak that has=20 been going around for about two weeks now. CERT released an advisory=20 on January 27th... http://www.cert.org/incident_notes/IN-2004-01.html No, it is absolutely not going out via my listserv, even though I=20 myself have received copies of it that "appear" to be from PRR-talk! When this virus infects a computer, it sends out e-mail from that=20 system to everyone in that system's address book. But it makes the=20 REPLY TO address a random pick from one of the addresses in the address=20= book. So, if Jim's computer is infected and it's address book has Jerry's,=20 Rick's, and the PRR-talk addresses in it, all three will likely receive=20= the virus, and the return address might be Rick's. Nice, huh? Gotta love Winblows. Thanks, Bill! On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 07:32 AM, RickTipton@aol.com wrote: > Just in case there's still somebody out there who needs to be warned = -- > > I never use subject lines like "Hello", "Hi", or "Hiya".=A0 But some=20= > happy spammer is generating mail and using my screen name -- I've=20 > already gotten back multiple messages that happened to be=20 > undeliverable, addressed to other railfans and modelers.=A0 Some of=20 > these people are not even in my address book -- they're reached only=20= > through lists. > > My virus scan software has just been updated and claims that I harbor=20= > no viruses on my machine, so I conclude this stuff is being generated=20= > to target those of us on various rail interest lists.=A0 Be assured my=20= > name is being used without my consent. > > It amazes me a) on the one hand how screwed up the Internet is, and b)=20= > on the other hand, how useful it has become.=A0 Good luck... > > ---------------------------------------- Listmaster listmaster@dsop.com Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:34:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Late Nite Trivia MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, OK, seems no one could answer this one. I did receive a handful of respones off list too but no one was close. Everyone was thinking BIG! I never heard the term "Glory Barn" until I read ABE's PRR Locomotive Charts. Whle looking at the the diagram for a 250P75 Tender low and behold, in qoutes, is the term "Glory Barn" pointed directly at the Dog House. Yep, the Dog House on the Tender Deck! ...........Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] G30 Composite gondola Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:44:48 +0000 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:03:17 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Camp Atterbury was Warsaw IN and the 7504 From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 06:32 AM, RickTipton@aol.com wrote: > Camp Atterbury was > 1. a WW2 Army training camp.=A0 It still has reserve activities on = base=20 > today. > 2. named after General William Wallace Atterbury, an Indiana native=20 > and the only PRR president born on Lines West (The General was also=20 > named after WWA). 3) A WW2 POW camp for German and Italian POWs (nearly 15,000). 4) The initial stimulus for the PRR to convert X32 box cars to coaches. See http://www.indianamilitary.org/Camp%20Atterbury/ (some interesting=20= RR related stuff there too ) Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin=20 Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-2--496849779 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 06:32 AM, RickTipton@aol.com wrote: ArialCamp Atterbury was 1. a WW2 Army training camp.=A0 It still has reserve activities on base today. 2. named after General William Wallace Atterbury, an Indiana native and the only PRR president born on Lines West (The General was also named after WWA). 3) A WW2 POW camp for German and Italian POWs (nearly 15,000). 4) The initial stimulus for the PRR to convert X32 box cars to coaches. See http://www.indianamilitary.org/Camp%20Atterbury/ (some interesting RR related stuff there too <) Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. =20 Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-2--496849779-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:05:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Lambert passenger cars MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bill, If I recall correctly, those cars are from the mid 1970's. Actually I believe they are nickel silver plated. Its been 20 years since I did mine so I could be wrong but I think under that nickel silver is the brass construction. It is a wonder the plating remained once you blasted. I can no longer check mine to be sure since they were painted inside and out. Maybe someone else can confirm or say otherwise......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:31:42 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] G30 Composite gondola From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 07:44 AM, b.hom@att.net wrote: >> Kris Kollar asked: >> "I'm currently building a Funaro & Cam. resin G-30 composite gondola. >> I >> can't find a picture of one. Can anyone tell me if they're supposed >> to >> have a foot hold/step in each corner?" > > That's an understatement - the weakest part of almost every Funaro kit > are instructions that range from barely adequate to totally useless. > Additionally, it sounds like the photo used is the builder's photo of > PRR 343432, which APPEARS to be missing one of its steps. Many > builder's photos are retouched to hide the background, and apparantly > the retoucher got rid of that step as well. See "War Emergency Gons" > by Ted Culotta (Railroad Model Craftsman, August 2001) and World War > II "War Emergency" Composite Mill Gondolas from Tichy Kits" by Richard > Hendrickson (Railmodel Journal, May 2002) for more photos and > information. Ben, Kris, et al, It looks like the next car that Ted Culotta's virtual modelers group will do may be the war emergency gon. See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/virtualmodelers/ I plan to follow Richard Hendrickson's excellent discussion of the G30 for mine, but I'll be using the tichy car . Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] G30 Composite gondola Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:13:12 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-MDRemoteIP: 192.0.1.150 X-Return-Path: geshick@velocity.net X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: prr-talk@dsop.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I noticed the other night that Burgess & Kennedy used dashes in the Centennial History. ---- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----- Original Message ----- > > Definitely. BTW, NO DASH IN THE CAR CLASS. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:16:59 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Daniels Subject: [PRR] F&C, was G30 Composite gondola Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:40:37 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] F&C H30A, was G30 Composite gondola From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bill, You are correct. I am told that it will be coming soon, but how long that will take is...well its really a random number! If they come, they will do both the H30 and H30A. I always thought that were some significant differences between the two, but TKM #6 seemed to imply that wasn't really true. See I need H30s, not H30As for my time frame and the F&C kit (which has been upgraded and re-released and is supposed to be very nice, for them) is an H30A. On top of all that, Steve Funaro told me 2 years ago that the H30 was coming "soon" from them... Soon is a relative term, like "mother-in-law" Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 09:16 AM, Bill Daniels wrote: > List, > > Saw a F&C PRR covered hopper (H30) the other day and > resisted the temptation to pick it up. Somewhere I > seem to remember reading here that somebody was going > to do them in plastic...and having first-hand > experience with F&C's "quality control" I would rather > not spend the bucks for it. However it it's not that > bad, and no plastic fantastic is coming I will > reconsider...any thoughts? > > Bill Daniels ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] F&C H30A Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:51:14 +0000 From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] G gauge ore cars Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:21:23 +0000 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:40:48 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] F&C H30A From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: So Ben, and anyone else who wants to answer... What are the differences between an H30 and an H30A? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] G gauge ore cars Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:43:42 +0000 From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] F&C H30A Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:50:14 +0000 From: "Fred in Vt." Subject: [PRR] pass ops question Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:51:32 -0500 List, several sources report that an L&N sleeper was attached to an = eastbond train at Steubenville, Oh..My question is: a] was this an empty car held in Mingo yard to be added to this train = each night as a protect service unit----or---- b] did this car work it's way from Memphis or Atlanta to Cincinnati, = and then on the "back road" through Washington CH, to Zanesville, to = Bellaire, Martins Ferry, and Steubenville? the type of car varied from 8-1-3 to a 12-1-----it is well known,only I = can't figure out which answer applies. Does anyone have a clue they are = willing to share? Thanks--------Fred in Vt ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01C3F15E.8EC23D20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
List,
      several = sources=20 report that an L&N sleeper was attached to an eastbond train at=20 Steubenville, Oh..My question is:
 a] was this an empty car held in = Mingo yard=20 to be added to this train each night as a protect service=20 unit----or----
 
 b] did this car work it's way = from Memphis or=20 Atlanta to Cincinnati, and then on the "back road" through Washington = CH, to=20 Zanesville, to Bellaire, Martins Ferry, and Steubenville?
 
the type of car varied from 8-1-3 to a = 12-1-----it=20 is well known,only I can't figure out which answer applies. Does anyone = have a=20 clue they are willing to share?
  Thanks--------Fred in=20 Vt
------=_NextPart_000_0053_01C3F15E.8EC23D20-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] G gauge ore cars Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:05:46 +0000 X-eSCM-MailFrom: From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR] F&C H30A Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:51:05 -0800 From: b.hom@att.net [mailto:b.hom@att.net] Subject: Re: [PRR] F&C H30A From: b.hom@att.net Subject: RE: [PRR] F&C H30A Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 18:00:16 +0000 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:07:51 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] F&C H30A From: Bruce Smith In-Reply-To: <771B1E5B26C8EA4BB4523881A34A80C601FE90@isgmx01.ttisg.com> Message-Id: <5F601CE0-5D86-11D8-83C3-000A958DAD46@mail.auburn.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 11:51 AM, ELDEN GATWOOD wrote: > Guys; > Are we talking about aside from the roofwalk? The H30 has that pressed > steel/non-perforated one, and the H30a looks more like an Apex or > Blawnox, > doesn't it? Doesn't the H30A have a slightly revised hatch hinge/latch > arrangement? Elden, Anything and everything thats different! Obviously, I'm asking because I want to know how easy it is to make an H30 from an H30A. TKM #6 was a bit vague, but Robs site mentions the hatches, and points out that all H30s had cast bolsters and some H30As did (early production, perhaps using spares?) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] F&C H30A Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:15:54 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi guys--Check the Keystone, Autumn 1987, p. 7, for photos looking down on both an H30 and H30a. Great photos to answer this question. From an HO modeler's perspective, the most significant difference is in the roofwalks. The H30 has as its roofwalk a steel plate with cross-hatched extrusions to provide non-skid; it is attached directly to the roof of the car without raised supports. The H30a has a more common Apex walk supported above the roof. The brake platforms have the same material differences. Also the way the roof panels are attached to the sides is different; the H30a has a slight overhang while the H30 seems to be flush with the angles supporting the side sheets. There is a raised seam completely across the roof on either side of the middle hatches on the H30a. I can't detect a difference in the hatch arrangements, but there are some minor detail differences in the tops of the hatches. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:18:14 -0600 Subject: [PRR] PRR P85(R) coach models (1940 Budds, ACL) From: Bruce Smith Message-Id: <343F9132-5D90-11D8-83C3-000A958DAD46@mail.auburn.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hello y'all, Please pardon the cross post, but I wanted input from the PCL and PRR-talk on this. In 1940 the PRR had Budd build 60 seat P85(R) coaches. #4019-4023 were painted in the FOM (two tone, streamline) scheme and assigned to the South Wind (as per our recent PCL discussions), #4024 & 4025 were left stainless and assigned to the Silver Meteor and #4026-4029 were left stainless and assigned to the Champion. I would like to model one or more of these cars in HO and I am thinking of using the ACL-SAL HS approach and making window bands to use with the Walthers Budd cars. In looking over the side diagrams and floor plans at Rob Schoenberg's web site: side: http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/ PRRdiagrams.html?diag=p85.gif&sel=coa&sz=sm&fr= floor: http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/ PRRdiagrams.html?diag=p85_fp.gif&sel=coa&sz=sm&fr= I find that the window bands appear to be identical. That is, unlike most lightweight cars, identical window patterns seems to have been used for the hallways and lavs on opposite ends, resulting in a need for only one style of window insert! 1) Is this right? I've also checked some photos, and it looks correct...but it can't be that easy 2) What was the window arrangement on the RF&P coaches that were purchased at the same time? 3) Does anyone have detailed information on the windows on the cars (ie, radius of corners, height, width, etc)? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] F&C H30A Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:19:11 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <771B1E5B26C8EA4BB4523881A34A80C601FE90@isgmx01.ttisg.com> Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I thought only the first H30 had that unique running board. It has = become famous because the builders photo of that prototype has appeared almost everywhere. However, I thought most, if not all, of the remaining H30s, = and all of the H30a's, had the more traditional running board. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of ELDEN GATWOOD Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 12:51 PM To: 'b.hom@att.net'; prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] F&C H30A Guys; Are we talking about aside from the roofwalk? The H30 has that pressed steel/non-perforated one, and the H30a looks more like an Apex or = Blawnox, doesn't it? Doesn't the H30A have a slightly revised hatch hinge/latch arrangement? Elden -----Original Message----- From: b.hom@att.net [mailto:b.hom@att.net]=20 Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:50 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] F&C H30A Bruce Smith asked: What are the differences between an H30 and an H30A? This is one that I haven't been able to track down. At first I believed = it had=20 to do with cast vs. fabricated bolster assemblies, but Class H30 cars = were built=20 with both types. I'd like to know myself. (That, and why Pennsy lumped both=20 single and double door cars together into Class X31A.) Ben Hom =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] G gauge ore cars Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:22:16 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <021220041643.7314.5d55@att.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: These are similar to what I refer to as the USS steel road's ore jennies - DM&IR, B&LE, ( maybe a few others) plus, CRIP, GN, NP, UP and maybe C&NW. I can't vouch for the accuracy of them for each of these roads, but the style is similar and if not accurate might serve as stand-ins. Lettering is far out not any where near anything the PRR did. Where do these guys come up w/ this stuff? Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eSCM-MailFrom: From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR] F&C H30A Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:25:02 -0800 From: Andrew S. Miller [mailto:asmiller@mitre.org] Subject: RE: [PRR] F&C H30A From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of ELDEN Subject: RE: [PRR] F&C H30A From: b.hom@att.net [mailto:b.hom@att.net] Subject: Re: [PRR] F&C H30A From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] H30 vs H30a Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:17:02 -0500 According to Rob S's excellent website, (my goto resource!)the H30a's were 3 3/8 inches higher than the H30s. see: http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=H30 Note also that the H30s came with no less than 10 different classes of trucks! regards, Andy Miller ------=_NextPart_000_00ED_01C3F17B.440FBF60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
According to Rob S's=20 excellent website, (my goto resource!)the H30a's were 3 3/8 inches = higher than=20 the H30s.
 
see:
http:/= /prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=3DH30
 
Note = also that the=20 H30s came with no less than 10 different classes of = trucks!
 
regards,
Andy Miller
 
------=_NextPart_000_00ED_01C3F17B.440FBF60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] H30 running boards Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:29:41 -0500 Just as soon as I made my statement about the first H30 being the only one I had ever seen with the integral running board, I decided to surf the web and see if I was right. Well here are two H30s, both with the integral running board! http://pc.smellycat.com/pics/equip/pc32349.jpg http://pc.smellycat.com/pics/equip/pc74251.jpg and here's the most famous H30, the preserved one at THE museum: http://www.totalracing.com/ebt/large/P8083143.jpg and it doesn't have the integral running board! So it appears that some H30s had them and some did not. I think I am safe saying no H30a's had integral running boards. Isuspect it was an experiment abandoned after the fisrt few. regards, Andy Miller ------=_NextPart_000_00F2_01C3F17D.0861D0A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
 
http://pc.smellycat.com/pics/equip/pc32= 349.jpg
 
http://pc.smellyc= at.com/pics/equip/pc74251.jpg
 
and = here's the most=20 famous H30, the preserved one at THE museum:
 
http://www.tot= alracing.com/ebt/large/P8083143.jpg
 
and it = doesn't have=20 the integral running board!  So it appears that some H30s had them = and some=20 did not.  I think I am safe saying no H30a's had integral running=20 boards.  Isuspect it was an experiment abandoned after the fisrt=20 few.
 
regards,
Andy Miller
 
------=_NextPart_000_00F2_01C3F17D.0861D0A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] H30s - again Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:33:43 -0500 Geez - I ought to go home! Its been a long day ;-) The car at the = museum is an H30a not an H30! But I HAVE seen photos of H30s with ordinary = running boards. I just haven't found any through Google yet. =20 regards, Andy Miller =20 ------=_NextPart_000_00F7_01C3F17D.98A1EA60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
Geez - = I ought to go=20 home!   Its been a long day ;-) The car at the museum is an = H30a not=20 an H30!  But I HAVE seen photos of H30s with ordinary running=20 boards.   I just haven't found any through Google=20 yet.
 
regards,
Andy Miller
 
------=_NextPart_000_00F7_01C3F17D.98A1EA60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] F&C H30A Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:33:47 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <5F601CE0-5D86-11D8-83C3-000A958DAD46@mail.auburn.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Looking over the equipment diagrams on my site, the outlets on the bottom are drawn differently for both classes. The H30a diagram shows a horizontal connection between all three outlets but the H30 diagram shows a connection from the outlets to the carbody and not between the outlets. Is there a difference in the style of the outlets? The overall size 24"x13" is the same for both cars. The H30 diagram is: http://prr.railfan.net/freight/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=h30.gif The H30a diagram is: http://prr.railfan.net/freight/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=h30a.gif Also, as for the F&C model of the H30a, it is MUCH improved over their older offering. It appears to be correctly sized now. Their old model is quite a bit undersized! I'm about 1/2 done with mine and it builds up fairly well but still requires some work. I put mine aside for now due to problems in getting a good seam between the ends and the roof as the casting for the sides also contains the ends of the roof. This creates a seam in the roof which I haven't been able to hide yet. Has anyone else run into this problem and how was it solved?!?!?! Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Bruce > Smith > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 1:08 PM > To: PRR-Talk > Subject: Re: [PRR] F&C H30A > > > > On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 11:51 AM, ELDEN GATWOOD wrote: > > > Guys; > > Are we talking about aside from the roofwalk? The H30 has that pressed > > steel/non-perforated one, and the H30a looks more like an Apex or > > Blawnox, > > doesn't it? Doesn't the H30A have a slightly revised hatch hinge/latch > > arrangement? > > Elden, > > Anything and everything thats different! Obviously, I'm asking because > I want to know how easy it is to make an H30 from an H30A. TKM #6 was > a bit vague, but Robs site mentions the hatches, and points out that > all H30s had cast bolsters and some H30As did (early production, > perhaps using spares?) > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin > Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: GFPat420@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:29:58 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann P70r Coaches - Handbrakes I haven't worked on that many heavyweight Pullmans so I can't really say whether one or two handbrakes are the rule. I can say that on virtually of the lightweight Pullmans I have worked on, there has only been one handbrake and that is in the vestibule. No some cars with no vestibules, such as diners, I have seen brake wheels either neatly recessed in an interior space, or occasionally in a locker, near the end of the car. Some baggage cars had handbrakes with two brake wheels -- one inside and one outside, on the same axle, so to speak. That was in case it was a sealed mail or express car which couldn't be accessed from inside for some reason. Hope this helps. Can't say about P70's, although the last ones I looked at, up on Coe Rail, in Michigan, only had the handbrake at one end. They were modernized cars, I believe. G.Payne --part1_195.25cdaef5.2d5d5866_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" I haven't worked on that many heavy= weight Pullmans so I can't really say whether one or two handbrakes are the=20= rule. I can say that on virtually of the lightweight Pullmans I have worked=20= on, there has only been one handbrake and that is in the vestibule.  No= some cars with no vestibules, such as diners, I have seen brake wheels eith= er neatly recessed in an interior space, or occasionally in a locker, near t= he end of the car.  Some baggage cars had handbrakes with two brake whe= els -- one inside and one outside, on the same axle, so to speak.  That= was in case it was a sealed mail or express car which couldn't be accessed=20= from inside for some reason.  Hope this helps.  Can't say about P7= 0's, although the last ones I looked at, up on Coe Rail, in Michigan, only h= ad the handbrake at one end.  They were modernized cars, I believe.

G.Payne --part1_195.25cdaef5.2d5d5866_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 18:11:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE: [PRR] G gauge ore cars MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, Al wrote: These are similar to what I refer to as the USS steel road's ore jennies - DM&IR, B&LE, ( maybe a few others) plus, CRIP, GN, NP, UP and maybe C&NW. I can't vouch for the accuracy of them for each of these roads, but the style is similar and if not accurate might serve as stand-ins. Lettering is far out not any where near anything the PRR did. Where do these guys come up w/ this stuff? Al Al, That is G Scale for ya! If they build it, customers will buy it. History shows they did this in every scale since the hobby started. But G Scale is the worse. I guess they think these "G" guys are not really model railroaders but consumers and will nuy anything. I think their right. But not me. That is why I build my own!. My next project, still TOP SECRET, is progressing along, slowly but surely.......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:39:49 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann P70r Coaches From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Sunday, February 8, 2004, at 06:24 PM, Mark Taylor wrote: > I have a handful of the Bachmann Spectrum coaches in Pre-war(metal > trucks) and Post-war(plastic trucks).After looking them over I have > noticed that the Pre-war cars have the hand brake on one end only > while the Post-war cars have the hand brake on both ends. Is this the > way it should be, a second hand brake wheel on the Post-war cars for > saftey.I am modeling cars for the mid 50's so I am trying to get the > appropriate equipment. Thanks as always Mark Mark, GREAT question! It took me a few days to get myself together on this one. I have learned that the most common application of an external brake wheel or lever on passenger equipment was to allow a brakeman riding the car to have access. If there are steps and a vestibule, the general rule is that the brake wheel/lever is INSIDE. I also learned that PULLMAN cars always had a brake wheel/lever on each end, regardless of whether they had a one or two cylinder system. Sooo, armed with my new knowledge, I thought about the P70. I would expect that on classic P70 cars that there should be NO external brake wheel, and on modernized P70s with only one vestibule that there might be a brake wheel on the "blind" end. So, I started to look at photos. So far (a limited sample, I'll admit), I have yet to see a brake wheel on ANY P70 end, blind or otherwise. As far as I can tell, any external brake wheel on a P70 is incorrect... In addition, the tracings on Rob Schoenberg's site (http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?sel=pass&sz=sm&fr=) for the P70s show no sign of a brake wheel, however the tracing for a PB70 shows both ends and a brake wheel on the blind (baggage) end only. I guess thats one more thing to fix on the Botchmans... Comments? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Re: Bowser H21a CK N Scale [PRR-n_scale] Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:56:16 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:02:05 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: Bowser H21a CK N Scale [PRR-n_scale] From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 01:56 PM, Dennis Rockwell wrote: >> Bowser's N scale H21a hoppers in Circle Keystone livery have been >> shipped in a 4th series of 12 road numbers. > > He hasn't updated the web page yet... That may be...but I've got several dozen sitting right in front of me! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:03:29 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Bowser N8 Update From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <2528EDCA-5D8E-11D8-87F7-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Regarding the HO scale N8 cabin car... Lee tells me the bodies are currently being painted, so all appears to be running fairly well on schedule. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Re: Bowser H21a CK N Scale [PRR-n_scale] Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:03:39 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] F&C H30A Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:11:38 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <771B1E5B26C8EA4BB4523881A34A80C601FE95@isgmx01.ttisg.com> Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Eldon, Don't take my word as gospel. I am inferring this because that original builder's photo of the first H30 is the only one I have ever seen with that integral running board! regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: ELDEN GATWOOD [mailto:ELDEN.GATWOOD@ttisg.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 2:25 PM To: 'Andrew S. Miller'; ELDEN GATWOOD; b.hom@att.net; prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] F&C H30A Wow; I had not heard that! I am sure glad I haven't been modeling H30's = the wrong way. Ouch, that'd hurt! You know, there seems to be a common misconcepetion, as I had someone = else tell me that the H30 had an "integral" running board. What does that = mean? Time to do some better research, Elden, you sorry sod. Elden -----Original Message----- From: Andrew S. Miller [mailto:asmiller@mitre.org]=20 Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 11:19 AM To: 'ELDEN GATWOOD'; b.hom@att.net; prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] F&C H30A I thought only the first H30 had that unique running board. It has = become famous because the builders photo of that prototype has appeared almost everywhere. However, I thought most, if not all, of the remaining H30s, = and all of the H30a's, had the more traditional running board. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of ELDEN GATWOOD Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 12:51 PM To: 'b.hom@att.net'; prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] F&C H30A Guys; Are we talking about aside from the roofwalk? The H30 has that pressed steel/non-perforated one, and the H30a looks more like an Apex or = Blawnox, doesn't it? Doesn't the H30A have a slightly revised hatch hinge/latch arrangement? Elden -----Original Message----- From: b.hom@att.net [mailto:b.hom@att.net]=20 Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:50 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] F&C H30A Bruce Smith asked: What are the differences between an H30 and an H30A? This is one that I haven't been able to track down. At first I believed = it had=20 to do with cast vs. fabricated bolster assemblies, but Class H30 cars = were built=20 with both types. I'd like to know myself. (That, and why Pennsy lumped both=20 single and double door cars together into Class X31A.) Ben Hom =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] H30a Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 19:17:59 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, It has been a while since I had a Builders Photo giveaway. So, download and print! http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/H30A_OH.jpg Thank You, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: [PRR] BLI M1b: My View (continued) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 19:31:40 -0600 When last I wrote, my BLI 6704 had only chuff, whistle, and blowdown, = but no other sounds. After talking to BLI's customer service, he had me = call the BLI guy in residence at QSI. He thought the problem was = interesting enough to get the QSI engineers involved. He provided a UPS = number and promised to overnight it back fixed. I sent it last week. I = received it back yesterday evening via UPS. A note was inside, "We = turned up the volume." And now the engine does sound as it should, I am = happy to report. Wow, am I embarrassed. When I first got the engine I had turned down = the volume to just a little less than half way before even putting it on = the track. I had seen a couple of posts from guys who had said it was = too loud. When I could not hear the bell or the background sounds, but = the chuff, whistle, and blow down were ok, I never thought to try = increasing the volume. And the BLI guys I talked to didn't mention it = either. Oh well. Lesson learned. I couldn't be happier with BLI's response and willingness to help. = Their prompt shipment back to me is much appreciated. The M1b is a great product, and the company, in my view, is a class act. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C3F19E.D6908C70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
When last I wrote, my BLI 6704 had only = chuff,=20 whistle, and blowdown, but no other sounds.  After talking to BLI's = customer service, he had me call the BLI guy in residence at QSI.  = He=20 thought the problem was interesting enough to get the QSI engineers=20 involved.  He provided a UPS number and promised to overnight it = back=20 fixed.  I sent it last week. I received it back yesterday = evening via=20 UPS.  A note was inside, "We turned up the volume."  And now = the=20 engine does sound as it should, I am happy to report.
 
Wow, am I embarrassed.  When I = first got the=20 engine I had turned down the volume to just a little less than half way = before=20 even putting it on the track.  I had seen a couple of posts from = guys who=20 had said it was too loud.  When I could not hear the bell or the = background=20 sounds, but the chuff, whistle, and blow down were ok, I never thought = to try=20 increasing the volume.  And the BLI guys I talked to didn't mention = it=20 either.  Oh well.  Lesson learned.
 
 I couldn't be happier with BLI's = response and=20 willingness to help.  Their prompt shipment back to me is much=20 appreciated.
 
The M1b is a great product, and the = company, in my=20 view, is a class act.
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C3F19E.D6908C70-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] 2 more H30 photos Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 21:32:09 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/2_H30_OH.jpg Thank You, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 19:17:59 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] H30a Hi All, It has been a while since I had a Builders Photo giveaway. So, download and print! http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/H30A_OH.jpg Thank You, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Send the freshest Valentine's flowers with a FREE vase from only $29.99! Shipped direct from the grower with a 7 day freshness guarantee and prices so low you save 30-55% off retail! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_iAw9B/xdlHAA/3jkFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 18:47:35 -0800 (PST) From: MICHAEL MERCURE Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI M1b: My View (continued) From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI M1b: My View (continued) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:09:53 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 In-Reply-To: <20040213024735.55813.qmail@web80508.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Re: I ordered and received 2 M1a's and 2 M1b's. One of them was missing one of the small classification lights on the front pilot, The lights on the pilot are marker lights, the lights on the boiler are classification lights. See "The Keystone Modeler," No 4, November 2003, pg. 26 in the PDF edition. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] "Ghost" sighting at Warsaw Tower on the Ft. Wayne Line Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:45:34 -0500 PRr-Listers: On March 13, 1965 mail train 52 blew through Warsaw at 4:43 am. = According to the tower sheet, the lead unit was engine 5824. According = to the roster that I have attached to my shreadsheet, 5824 is a Baldwin = Centipede. However, according the Hahn;s book on Baldwins, all = Centipedes were retired from the Pennsy by September 1962. In looking at = the engine number and how it was written on the CT 233-A train sheet, = the "2" in 5824 looked suspicious. It may have been 5874, an E-7. But = when compared to the hand writing of the same tower operator on 2's and = 7's on other entries, the number in question resembled 5824 than = anything else. Most likely is was a typo. But maybe, just maybe it was a ghost....... Ted Andrews ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C3F1B9.ECE54CC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
PRr-Listers:
 
On March 13, 1965 mail train 52 blew through Warsaw at 4:43 am. = According=20 to the tower sheet, the lead unit was engine 5824. According to the = roster that=20 I have attached to my shreadsheet, 5824 is a Baldwin Centipede. However, = according the Hahn;s book on Baldwins, all Centipedes were retired from = the=20 Pennsy by September 1962. In looking at the engine number and how it was = written=20 on the CT 233-A train sheet, the "2" in 5824 looked suspicious. It may = have been=20 5874, an E-7. But when compared to the hand writing of the same tower = operator=20 on 2's and 7's on other entries, the number in question resembled 5824 = than=20 anything else.
 
Most likely is was a typo. But maybe, just maybe it was a = ghost.......
 
 
Ted Andrews
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C3F1B9.ECE54CC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:33:49 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Bachmann P70r Coaches - Handbrakes Were they possibly ratchet type hand brakes that were placed inside the vestibule above the steps? In a photo of a P70fbr with the door on the platform side open, it appears that there is a ratchet style handle on the other side of the vestibule. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1076643229 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Were they possibly ratchet type hand brakes that were placed inside the= vestibule above the steps?   In a photo of a P70fbr with the= door on the platform side open, it appears that there is a ratchet style ha= ndle on the other side of the vestibule.
 
Evan Leisey
RCT&HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phi= la.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1076643229-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] H30a Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:44:10 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bill, Thanks for posting the builder's photos. They're super. --- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, Chautauqua branches web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Lane" To: "Steam Era Freight cars" ; "PRR Talk" ; "PRR Fax" Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 7:17 PM Subject: [PRR] H30a > Hi All, > > It has been a while since I had a Builders Photo giveaway. So, download and > print! http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/H30A_OH.jpg > > Thank You, > Bill Lane > > http://www.lanestrains.com > http://www.pennsysmodels.com > Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] 2 more H30 photos Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:19:49 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The photo on the left of the H30 is the same one shown in the Keystone of Autumn 1987. Can anyone provide the H30a photo? Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Lane" To: "Steam Era Freight cars" ; "PRR Fax" ; "PRR Talk" Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:32 PM Subject: [PRR] 2 more H30 photos > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/2_H30_OH.jpg > > Thank You, > Bill Lane > > http://www.lanestrains.com > http://www.pennsysmodels.com > Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 21:32:09 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] 2 more H30 photos http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/2_H30_OH.jpg Thank You, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] H30 vs. H30 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 01:07:07 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 In-Reply-To: <021220041650.14176.14fd@att.net> Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: A comment was made that TKM was light on this subject, and I agree. Therefore, TKM will attempt to sort out the H30 vs. H30a dilemma and report on it in the March issue. There appears to be minor dimensional differences, hatch differences, roof/side construction differences as well a difference in the outlet mechanisms. Although the running boards were different (separate vs. integral) I am of the opinion that would not warrant a class differentiation. There is also some bolster differences, which are less clear at this time. Stay tuned, we already have four pages of photos and diagrams and text with some more research to do. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI M1b: My View (continued) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 06:31:31 -0500 To: MICHAEL MERCURE X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.612) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Feb 12, 2004, at 9:47 PM, MICHAEL MERCURE wrote: > My biggest complaint is that I have e-mailed BLI 3 > times (January 31, February 5, and February 10) about > these problems, and have heard NO response. Not good > business practice. The problem with BLI's email is it is generic, so whoever receives it has to manually redirect it to whomever actually needs to receive it. I agree, it is not the best situation. They would be better off not publishing an address than not answering one they publish. > Could you furnish the telephone > no. of BLI's "customer service" that you talked to? I > was trying to refrain from a telephone call since it > is not convenient to call during the day, nor incur > phone charges (if it is not a toll-free no.). Try 540.949.8300. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 08:11:09 -0500 Subject: [PRR] BLI J1 Photos Posted From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <173E896E-5E26-11D8-80AD-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: BLI has posted pre-production photos of the forthcoming PRR J1 on their web site. Note that the link from the main site incorrectly brings up the ATSF photos. You need to go into the Products section, select PRR J1, select Sample Photos. Or just go here... ;-) http://www.broadway-limited.com/products/prrj1samp.htm ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 08:14:35 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] F&C H30A, was G30 Composite gondola Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I am mostly finished with one (recently cast in WHITE resin which is workable). The main issue to a novice like me is the instructions which assume a lot. The main issues that are uncovered are 1) what "part g" might be since not every part is labeled or easily guessed from its name and therefore one has to guess...2)details of the brake and piping are a little vague. IF one has photos, they can be helpful but I didn't until the recent TKM...My effort looks OK to me but then I'm not as picky as many modelers. I do this for fun and relaxation. good luck, Jim McDaniel, Delmarva ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:48:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J1 Photos Posted MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, You gotta admit, that 3/4 view looks pretty dang impressive. http://www.broadway-limited.com/products/images/prrj1/front34.jpg .........Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: Re: [PRR] F&C, was G30 Composite gondola Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:58:58 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Finished mine about 3 weeks ago and it does look good, however the kit is challenging. Not that its exceptionally hard to put together but directions are not clear and they seem to leave out directions for parts that are in the kit. I have some shots of it built up in the unpainted stage. I'll try and shoot them out to you so you can get a look at it. I'd say the challenge was more so because you had to work methodically slow to make sure you didn't miss a step or put something in place that only had to be removed at a later time because it conflicted with later steps. Needless to say, with time (plenty of it), it builds to a nice car. Kris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Daniels" To: Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 10:16 AM Subject: [PRR] F&C, was G30 Composite gondola > List, > > Saw a F&C PRR covered hopper (H30) the other day and > resisted the temptation to pick it up. Somewhere I > seem to remember reading here that somebody was going > to do them in plastic...and having first-hand > experience with F&C's "quality control" I would rather > not spend the bucks for it. However it it's not that > bad, and no plastic fantastic is coming I will > reconsider...any thoughts? > > Bill Daniels > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:56:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J1 Photos Posted MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, But I hope they catch their J1a Builders Plate booboo on this #6170 J1 loco.. ......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] F&C H30A, was G30 Composite gondola Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:05:53 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <402CCDBB.4060905@esva.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jim, et al., Re: If one has photos, they can be helpful but I didn't until the recent TKM.. We are planning on more H30 and H30a photos being in the March TKM. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 07:23:53 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J1 Photos Posted From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI J1 Photos Posted Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:46:19 -0500 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:58:47 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J1 Photos Posted From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, February 13, 2004, at 10:46 AM, Chany, Christopher wrote: > I see from the website, the three J1 road numbers are as follows:=20 > 6170, 6418, 6438. > where were they based out of? > Could these be found on the curve?=A0=A0 If so when? > When were they scrapped? > =A0Is there anything special about any of them?=A0 For a time there were indeed J1's working the east/west slope. Photos=20 are abundant. I know some Phil Hastings photos appear in the 1957=20 article in Trains magazine, as well as in Doug Nelson's book. According to the 3/1954 edition of the MP229, 6170 and 6438 were both=20 assigned to the Pittsburgh Division. Remember, the Pittsburgh Division=20= started at SLOPE, so they could very well have been in helper service=20 at the time. Other J's were assigned to the Conemaugh, Chicago,=20 Southwestern, and Columbus divisions. 6418 is not listed, so it must=20 have been retired by then. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:17:29 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: ealauterbach@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J1 Photos Posted X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: They also have pictures of their upcoming ATSF 4-8-4. Take a look at those and then compare the detail to the J1. The J1 is nice, but the 4-8-4 has a lot more separate details. I wonder if the difference is the China vs. Korea. Eric ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] New Jersey Industry Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:32:03 +0000 From: "Carl Izzo" Subject: [PRR] Re: Reconstitute Acrylic Paint Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:51:55 -0500 Subject: Reconstitute Acrylic Paint From: "Tom Mahon" Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:50:16 -0500 Seem to remember an article or item somewhere on reconstituting acrylic paint. One of the paint manufacturers even has some stuff labeled for it. Anybody out there remember this or tried this? Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3F0CF.E4033DA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

Seem to remember an article or item somewhere on reconstituting acrylic paint. One of the paint manufacturers even has = some stuff labeled for it. Anybody out there remember this or tried this? =

 

Tom Mahon

Merrimack, NH

 

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3F0CF.E4033DA0-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Bowser H21a CK N Scale From: "Jerry @ Pennsy" Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 21:04:56 -0500 Public Service Announcement... Bowser's N scale H21a hoppers in Circle Keystone livery have been shipped in a 4th series of 12 road numbers. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Late Nite Trivia From: "Gary Mittner" Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 21:29:15 -0500 (EST) List, No guessers for my trivia from last night? A few more hours and I will get back with the answer....Gary In the PRR scheme of things, what does the term "Glory Barn" refer to? Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: KS Tower, Warsaw, Indiana; March 7, 1965 From: "Ted Andrews" Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 22:05:53 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C3F0EB.378BDE80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Train 22, the Manhattan Limited arrives at 1:05pm. It then departs to = the east at 1:12pm. It is noted on the tower trainsheet "7504 on rear."=20 Sounds like a business car. The first such report at Warsaw in 1965. More Warsaw tower surprises to come! Ted Andrews ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C3F0EB.378BDE80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Train 22, the Manhattan Limited arrives at 1:05pm. It then departs = to the=20 east at 1:12pm. It is noted on the tower trainsheet "7504 on rear." =
 
Sounds like a business car. The first such report at Warsaw in = 1965.
 
More Warsaw tower surprises to come!
 
 
Ted Andrews
------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C3F0EB.378BDE80-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of PRR-Talk Digest ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:57:38 -0500 Subject: [PRR] BLI - More T1's and M1's Coming! From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Public Service Announcement... BROADWAY LIMITED IMPORTS More HO scale PRR T1's are due in a few days. These will be the same road numbers as those that arrived six weeks ago. More HO scale M1's are due in March. A limited number of all of the original road numbers will be available. IN ADDITION, there will be three new M1a numbers and two new M1b numbers. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Nesbitt" Subject: [PRR] BLI PRR models Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:39:22 -0500 Don't get me wrong here, I am very glad to see BLI putting out all the PRR models, especially at the price they are listing for. They brought the cost of other plastic back into line -no more paying Proto 2000 3 and 4 hunderd bucks for their featureless samples anymore. But I'm a little curious as to why the company is releasing so many PRR models which are very specific to that road and not releasing alot of general usage models like USRA versions. There's really only one other company that makes all the same unique PRR models. Is there a possibility BLI is trying to crush this other company to eliminate competition, then focus on other companys, corner the market the jack their prices up near brass ? Or is it BLI just wants to sell good product at a good price. Thanks Kenny ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C3F22E.6851BAF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
Don't = get me wrong=20 here, I am very glad to see BLI putting out all the PRR models, = especially at=20 the price they are listing for.  They brought the cost of other = plastic=20 back into line   -no more paying Proto 2000 3 and 4 hunderd = bucks for=20 their featureless samples anymore.     But I'm a = little=20 curious as to why the company is releasing so many PRR models which are = very=20 specific to that road and not releasing alot of general usage models = like USRA=20 versions.
There's really only=20 one other company that makes all the same unique PRR models.  = Is there=20 a possibility BLI is trying to crush this other company to eliminate=20 competition, then focus on other companys, corner the market the jack = their=20 prices up near brass ?   Or is it BLI just wants to = sell good=20 product at a good price.
 
Thanks
 
Kenny
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C3F22E.6851BAF0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Jersey Industry Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:38:07 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: What do you mean by "paper converting mill"? Sometimes what are called "box plants" in the corrugated carton industry are referred to as "paper converters". If so, there were several. One I can think of right off was MacMillan Bloedel at Jersey City. Four M had one at Newark as well, although the siding had been removed by the 1990's. In addition to being in charge of traffic for the AN, I also handled it for St. Joe Paper Co., its owner. PRR didn't do badly with St Joe, out of 20 plants, 4 were on PRR, 2 on B&O, and one each on B&M and Erie. This was after my stint with PRR-PC-CR. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 11:32 AM Subject: [PRR] New Jersey Industry > I was asked if there were any paper converting mills on the corridor in New Jersey. I responded I didn't think so but does anybody know of any? Thanks > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J1 Photos Posted Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:50:07 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Where is the J1 to be built? Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: The J1 is nice, but the 4-8-4 has a lot more separate details. I wonder if the difference is the China vs. Korea. > Eric ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Carl Izzo" Subject: [PRR] Fw: Reconstitute Acrylic Paint Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:12:44 -0500 From: "Carl Izzo" Subject: Re: Reconstitute Acrylic Paint > Subject: Reconstitute Acrylic Paint > From: "Tom Mahon" > Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:50:16 -0500 > > Seem to remember an article or item somewhere on reconstituting acrylic > paint. One of the paint manufacturers even has some stuff labeled for > it. Anybody out there remember this or tried this? > > > > Tom Mahon > > Merrimack, NH > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 13:07:35 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI PRR models From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, February 13, 2004, at 12:39 PM, Ken Nesbitt wrote: > Don't get me wrong here, I am very glad to see BLI putting out all the=20= > PRR models, especially at the price they are listing for.=A0 They=20 > brought the cost of other plastic back into line=A0=A0 -no more paying=20= > Proto 2000 3 and 4 hunderd bucks for their featureless samples=20 > anymore.=A0=A0=A0=A0 But I'm a little curious as to why the company is=20= > releasing so many PRR models which are very specific to that road and=20= > not releasing alot of general usage models like USRA versions. > There's really only one other company that makes all the same=A0unique=20= > PRR models.=A0 Is there a possibility BLI is trying to crush this = other=20 > company to eliminate competition, then focus on other companys, corner=20= > the market the jack their prices up near brass ?=A0=A0 Or is it BLI = just=20 > wants to sell=A0good product at a good price. No, I don't think so. I think a lot of it is coincidence. The T1 and M1 original product announcements were spaced well apart.=20 Intermixed with them were several other locos not of direct interest to=20= the typical PRR modeler. Then delays hit. The T1 and M1 were delivered only weeks apart. That=20 definitely was NOT the plan. Furthermore, the J could have been ready=20 for March or so. Given that the T's and M's had just hit, BLI made a=20 decision to delay the J until June. I suspect that the parts are=20 already done and that they just pushed off the painting and assembly.=20 (This info from Tim Nissley, the sales manager at BLI.) E7's and some switchers are coming between now and then, but they are=20 in all sorts of road names and PRR just happens to the be included. So=20= I don't think this was any effort to flood the PRR market either. Now, back to the forthcoming T's and M1's. It was actually known up=20 front that there would be additional T's and M's of the same road=20 numbers. The first batches came express from China/Korea. I suspect=20 this second batch is coming by boat. They are actually FIRST RUN=20 locomotives. I was, however, (pleasantly) surprised a the additional=20 road numbers for the M's. Back to "that other company". Maybe BLI will affect their participation=20= in the locomotive market. Maybe their recent offering will be their=20 last. They do well in freight cars, and I see that continuing.=20 Furthermore, they are a distributor to model railroad retailers,=20 offering several dozen product lines. So, I don't foresee that company=20= disappearing any time soon. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI PRR models Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:55:49 -0600 From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" While P2K models have listed for $3-400, at least around here, no one (including myself) has ever paid that much. Typical discounts are at least between 20 and 40%, which brings their price into a much more reasonable range. And from what I've seen, the P2K and Bachmann plastic models have more individually applied, as opposed to cast in, details than the BLI models. =20 I suspect the reason that BLI has not pursued the USRA route is that many of these models have been available in plastic for some time. P2K has produced the 0-8-0 and 0-6-0, Athearn Genesis the 2-8-2 (now joined by Marklin) and 4-6-2, and Bachmann the 4-8-2 light and heavy, and the 2-6-6-2. One USRA engine not yet produced in plastic is manufactured by BLI, the USRA heavy 2-8-2. =20 I doubt very seriously that BLI is out to "crush" Bowser. Bowser has been around for a long time, despite the suggestion by some on this forum that brass is a better deal considering the price of the kit, and the amount of work required in assembling and detailing the Bowser model. -----Original Message----- From: Ken Nesbitt [mailto:ken.nesbitt@fbcs-inc.com] Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 11:39 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] BLI PRR models=20 Don't get me wrong here, I am very glad to see BLI putting out all the PRR models, especially at the price they are listing for. They brought the cost of other plastic back into line -no more paying Proto 2000 3 and 4 hunderd bucks for their featureless samples anymore. But I'm a little curious as to why the company is releasing so many PRR models which are very specific to that road and not releasing alot of general usage models like USRA versions. There's really only one other company that makes all the same unique PRR models. Is there a possibility BLI is trying to crush this other company to eliminate competition, then focus on other companys, corner the market the jack their prices up near brass ? Or is it BLI just wants to sell good product at a good price. =20 Thanks =20 Kenny =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3F262.FF37CAF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Message
While=20 P2K models have listed for $3-400, at least around here, no one = (including=20 myself) has ever paid that much.  Typical discounts are at least = between 20=20 and 40%, which brings their price into a much more reasonable=20 range.  And from what I've seen, the P2K and Bachmann plastic = models=20 have more individually applied, as opposed to cast in, details than the = BLI=20 models.
 
I=20 suspect the reason that BLI has not pursued the USRA route is that many = of these=20 models have been available in plastic for some time.  P2K has = produced the=20 0-8-0 and 0-6-0, Athearn Genesis the 2-8-2 (now joined by Marklin) and = 4-6-2,=20 and Bachmann the 4-8-2 light and heavy, and the 2-6-6-2.  One = USRA=20 engine not yet produced in plastic is manufactured by BLI, the USRA = heavy=20 2-8-2.
 
I=20 doubt very seriously that BLI is out to "crush" Bowser.  Bowser has = been=20 around for a long time, despite the suggestion by some on this = forum=20 that brass is a better deal considering the price of the kit, and the = amount of=20 work required in assembling and detailing the Bowser=20 model.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Nesbitt=20 [mailto:ken.nesbitt@fbcs-inc.com]
Sent: Friday, February 13, = 2004=20 11:39 AM
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] BLI = PRR=20 models

Don't get me wrong=20 here, I am very glad to see BLI putting out all the PRR models, = especially at=20 the price they are listing for.  They brought the cost of other = plastic=20 back into line   -no more paying Proto 2000 3 and 4 hunderd = bucks=20 for their featureless samples anymore.     But I'm = a=20 little curious as to why the company is releasing so many PRR models = which are=20 very specific to that road and not releasing alot of general usage = models like=20 USRA versions.
There's really=20 only one other company that makes all the same unique PRR = models. =20 Is there a possibility BLI is trying to crush this other company to = eliminate=20 competition, then focus on other companys, corner the market the jack = their=20 prices up near brass ?   Or is it BLI just wants to = sell good=20 product at a good price.
 
Thanks
 
Kenny
 
 
------_=_NextPart_001_01C3F262.FF37CAF0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:56:53 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J1 Photos Posted From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, February 13, 2004, at 08:48 AM, Gary Mittner wrote: > List, > > You gotta admit, that 3/4 view looks pretty dang impressive. > http://www.broadway-limited.com/products/images/prrj1/front34.jpg > .........Gary And how! I've been very good, and not reserved one of these (4 M1As and a T1 ALREADY this year, and the stock cars may be out soon, the Branchline Pullmans are almost here...) but is sure is tempting! I've even tried rationalizing one ... As y'all may know I model the A&S circa June 1944. IIRC Grif Teller painted a J1 on the P&T crossing over the main at Whitford...I am aware that the model was an M1 or I1 but... In addition, I was looking through my ETTs the other day, and unlike the Middle division, where J1s are specifically banned, I could find no mention in the Philadelphia Div ETT. In fact it did mentions the Q1 and gave restrictions, implying that the Q1 could run on that division... OTOH, maybe I'll wait and see if BLI will do a version w/o trainphones...since I'll be busy hacking them off of 4 M1As already Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI PRR models Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 13:57:11 -0500 >From: "Ken Nesbitt" >Subject: [PRR] BLI PRR models Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:39:22 -0500 >Subject: [PRR] BLI PRR models Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:39:22 -0500 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:11:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J1 Photos Posted From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, February 13, 2004, at 01:56 PM, Bruce Smith wrote: > And how! I've been very good, and not reserved one of these (4 M1As > and a T1 ALREADY this year, and the stock cars may be out soon, the > Branchline Pullmans are almost here...) but is sure is tempting! I've > even tried rationalizing one ... I think 2004 is going to be a banner year for Pennsy modelers in HO and N scales. Wow, there is a lot coming! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J1 Photos Posted Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:33:24 +0000 >From: Jerry Britton >Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J1 Photos Posted >Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:11:54 -0500 From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J1 Photos Posted Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:54:45 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry: Very nice, except, I hope they get rid of the red cab roof. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 8:11 AM Subject: [PRR] BLI J1 Photos Posted > BLI has posted pre-production photos of the forthcoming PRR J1 on their > web site. > > Note that the link from the main site incorrectly brings up the ATSF > photos. You need to go into the Products section, select PRR J1, select > Sample Photos. > > Or just go here... ;-) > > http://www.broadway-limited.com/products/prrj1samp.htm > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] G30 Composite gondola Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 17:12:25 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <006601c3f17a$bb2b7f40$960100c0@ges> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Re: Jerry S sez - "I noticed the other night that Burgess & Kennedy used dashes in the Centennial History." Well, yes and no - they are somewhat inconsistent run the use of dashes. There are other inconsistencies and minor errors in the book also. The PRR typically did not use them in the equipment diagrams. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 17:40:31 EST Subject: [PRR] New Milepost for Horseshoe Curve 150th Anniversary List, Here is the link to the article for a New Milepost at the Horseshoe Curve. It is part of the NRHS, Horseshoe Curve Chpt. Coal Bucket. Click on the picture to enlarge it. It was a worth while endeavor. Thanks for looking. Pat McKinney Click here: Horseshoe Curve, NRHS - The Interchange --part1_a9.5128729b.2d5eac5f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" List,
       Here is the link to the article for a N= ew Milepost at the Horseshoe Curve. It is part of the NRHS, Horseshoe Curve=20= Chpt. Coal Bucket. Click on the picture to enlarge it. It was a worth while=20= endeavor. Thanks for looking.

Pat McKinney




Click h= ere: Horseshoe Curve, NRHS - The Interchange --part1_a9.5128729b.2d5eac5f_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: WAMMP236@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 18:47:13 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] pass ops question Fred, Not sure what years you are looking at, but my copy of a September 1953 PRR Timetable shows several possibilities. Westbound Train 33 the St. Louisian carried an 8S 5 Double Bedroom car NYP to Louisville. The same train also carried a 10S DR 2 Dbl Bdrm. car Pittsburgh to New Orleans via Cincinatti and the L&N to New Orleans. Train # 41 THE CINCINATTI LTD. carried a 10RMT. 6DBL. BDRM sleeper NYP to Memphis as well as a 10 RMT. 6DBL BDRM sleeper NYP to Nashville both via the L&N Also the same train carried a NYP Louisville 10-6 via the L&N. Westbound Train 37 , 37-205 and 37-363 ( all the same train) carried a 10sec 2 comp ,DR car NYP to Birmingham via Cincinatti and the L&N Eastbound train #16 The Iron City Express carried a 10S 2comp DR car Birmingham to NYP via the L& N and a 10 RMT 6DBL BDRM car Memphis to NYP via the L&N. Eastbound Train #32 THE SAINT LOUISIAN carried an 8s 5 Dbl Bdrm car Louisville to NYP. Eastbound train # 40 THE CINCINATTI LIMITED 10-6s to both Louisville and Nashville via the L&N Train # 74 THE DUQUESNE carried an 8 section BUFFET LOUNGE CAR Louisville to Pittsburgh. this car went west on train #25 The AFTERNOON STEELER/ METROPOLITAN to Louisville.+ Train # 106-62-54 and 106-462-54 202-32 ( all the same train) carried a New Orleans to Pittsburgh 10sec. DR 2 Dbl Bdrm car. Hope this helps Bill --part1_121.2af7012d.2d5ebc01_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Fred,
        Not sure what years you are looki= ng at, but my copy of a September 1953 PRR Timetable shows several possibili= ties. Westbound Train 33 the St. Louisian carried an 8S 5 Double Bedroom car= NYP to Louisville.  The same train also carried a 10S DR 2 Dbl Bdrm. c= ar Pittsburgh to New Orleans via Cincinatti and the L&N to New Orleans.<= BR> Train # 41 THE CINCINATTI LTD. carried a 10RMT. 6DBL. BDRM sleeper NYP to Me= mphis as well as a 10 RMT. 6DBL BDRM sleeper  NYP to Nashville both via= the L&N  Also the same train carried a NYP Louisville 10-6 via the= L&N.
       Westbound Train 37 , 37-205 and 37-363=20= ( all the same train) carried a 10sec 2 comp ,DR car NYP to Birmingham via C= incinatti and the L&N
       Eastbound train #16 The Iron City Expre= ss carried  a 10S 2comp DR car Birmingham to NYP via the L& N and a= 10 RMT 6DBL BDRM car Memphis to NYP via the L&N.
       Eastbound Train #32 THE SAINT LOUISIAN=20= carried an 8s 5 Dbl Bdrm car Louisville to NYP.
       Eastbound train # 40 THE CINCINATTI LIM= ITED  10-6s to both Louisville and Nashville via the L&N
       Train # 74 THE DUQUESNE carried an 8 se= ction BUFFET LOUNGE CAR Louisville to Pittsburgh. this car went west=20= on train #25 The AFTERNOON STEELER/ METROPOLITAN to Louisville.+
        Train # 106-62-54 and 106-462-54=20= 202-32 ( all the same train) carried a New Orleans to Pittsburgh 10sec. DR 2= Dbl Bdrm car. 
         Hope this helps
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;            =             &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;  Bill --part1_121.2af7012d.2d5ebc01_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Carl Izzo" Subject: Fw: [PRR] Re: Reconstitute Acrylic Paint Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 20:01:24 -0500 From: "Carl Izzo" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Reconstitute Acrylic Paint > From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" > Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: Reconstitute Acrylic Paint > From: Carl Izzo [mailto:cizzo@adelphia.net] > Subject: [PRR] Re: Reconstitute Acrylic Paint > Subject: Reconstitute Acrylic Paint > From: "Tom Mahon" > Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:50:16 -0500 > > Seem to remember an article or item somewhere on reconstituting acrylic > paint. One of the paint manufacturers even has some stuff labeled for > it. Anybody out there remember this or tried this? > > > > Tom Mahon > > Merrimack, NH > > > > > > > > > . > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 22:14:23 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] L&N-painted sleeper? In a message dated 2/12/04 6:17:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: pass ops question > From: "Fred in Vt." > Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:51:32 -0500 > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01C3F15E.8EC23D20 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > > List, > several sources report that an L&N sleeper was attached to an = > eastbond train at Steubenville, Oh..My question is: > a] was this an empty car held in Mingo yard to be added to this train = > each night as a protect service unit----or---- > > b] did this car work it's way from Memphis or Atlanta to Cincinnati, = > and then on the "back road" through Washington CH, to Zanesville, to = > Bellaire, Martins Ferry, and Steubenville? > > the type of car varied from 8-1-3 to a 12-1-----it is well known,only I = > can't figure out which answer applies. Does anyone have a clue they are = > willing to share? > Thanks--------Fred in Vt > Fred, Passenger movements on the "back way" died very early in Pennsy trainoff history. Right out of the box, I'd say you'd have real trouble getting a Pullman across the Cincinnati & Muskingum Valley ("Zanesville Branch") even by WW2. All the parts of it I knew well were a neglected, third-class branch line with very old rail, hazardous enough to navigate with a few freight cars. So "probably not" that way -- and if it had, the car would surely have been added at Trinway, where the C&MV rejoined the Panhandle main. Incidentally, I don't think there was any "back road" via Bellaire -- the only PRR route Zanesville-Bellaire was the Ohio River & Western, and that was 3-foot-gauge until abandonment. I've lost the sense of when this event was observed. Could this be one of the Cincinnati Limited cars off the L&N? These three sleeper lines (typically Memphis- Nashville- and Louisville-to-New York) usually ran on #40 eastbound, but daylight savings time and other factors sometimes slid them around. As Chuck Blardone details in our upcoming book on Cincinnati, the L&N contributed 3 cars to this pool, and when replaced with lightweight 10-6's after WW2, they were painted in tuscan at first. This pool continued until the two roads stopped interchanging sleepers at Cincinnati. BTW -- dig it -- a sleeper was westbound to Cincinnati on the PRR, and then became southbound on the L&N -- even if headed for Memphis. Much more from Chuck in the upcoming PRRT&HS publication. Need I point out that there are plenty of reasons an L&N-painted sleeper could be headed east on the Panhandle on ANY passenger train, including: 1. the regularly assigned PRR or L&N car didn't turn around on the L&N fast enough 2. a regularly assigned PRR or L&N car had to be removed from a consist for repairs. 4. an extra movement east from somewhere on the L&N has made this car available for another extra movement east. PRR cars from the Cincinnati Limited also showed up down here in Kentucky. Jack Fravert took a nice slide of a tuscan 10-6 on the end of an L&N train from Cincinnati entering Louisville's suburbs after a photogenic snow. Of course, a good-looking snow cover in Louisville was probably more unusual than the tuscan sleeper. Incidentally, Louisville used to cancel school every time it snowed -- it usually melted so fast they had no plows. Of course, that was more than 25 years ago, and it snows heavier than when I moved here. Maybe we're getting closer to Indianapolis (can we blame this on Interstate 65?). Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 22:14:23 EST Subject: [PRR] L&N-painted sleeper? In a message dated 2/12/04 6:17:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: pass ops question > From: "Fred in Vt." > Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:51:32 -0500 > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01C3F15E.8EC23D20 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > > List, > several sources report that an L&N sleeper was attached to an = > eastbond train at Steubenville, Oh..My question is: > a] was this an empty car held in Mingo yard to be added to this train = > each night as a protect service unit----or---- > > b] did this car work it's way from Memphis or Atlanta to Cincinnati, = > and then on the "back road" through Washington CH, to Zanesville, to = > Bellaire, Martins Ferry, and Steubenville? > > the type of car varied from 8-1-3 to a 12-1-----it is well known,only I = > can't figure out which answer applies. Does anyone have a clue they are = > willing to share? > Thanks--------Fred in Vt > Fred, Passenger movements on the "back way" died very early in Pennsy trainoff history. Right out of the box, I'd say you'd have real trouble getting a Pullman across the Cincinnati & Muskingum Valley ("Zanesville Branch") even by WW2. All the parts of it I knew well were a neglected, third-class branch line with very old rail, hazardous enough to navigate with a few freight cars. So "probably not" that way -- and if it had, the car would surely have been added at Trinway, where the C&MV rejoined the Panhandle main. Incidentally, I don't think there was any "back road" via Bellaire -- the only PRR route Zanesville-Bellaire was the Ohio River & Western, and that was 3-foot-gauge until abandonment. I've lost the sense of when this event was observed. Could this be one of the Cincinnati Limited cars off the L&N? These three sleeper lines (typically Memphis- Nashville- and Louisville-to-New York) usually ran on #40 eastbound, but daylight savings time and other factors sometimes slid them around. As Chuck Blardone details in our upcoming book on Cincinnati, the L&N contributed 3 cars to this pool, and when replaced with lightweight 10-6's after WW2, they were painted in tuscan at first. This pool continued until the two roads stopped interchanging sleepers at Cincinnati. BTW -- dig it -- a sleeper was westbound to Cincinnati on the PRR, and then became southbound on the L&N -- even if headed for Memphis. Much more from Chuck in the upcoming PRRT&HS publication. Need I point out that there are plenty of reasons an L&N-painted sleeper could be headed east on the Panhandle on ANY passenger train, including: 1. the regularly assigned PRR or L&N car didn't turn around on the L&N fast enough 2. a regularly assigned PRR or L&N car had to be removed from a consist for repairs. 4. an extra movement east from somewhere on the L&N has made this car available for another extra movement east. PRR cars from the Cincinnati Limited also showed up down here in Kentucky. Jack Fravert took a nice slide of a tuscan 10-6 on the end of an L&N train from Cincinnati entering Louisville's suburbs after a photogenic snow. Of course, a good-looking snow cover in Louisville was probably more unusual than the tuscan sleeper. Incidentally, Louisville used to cancel school every time it snowed -- it usually melted so fast they had no plows. Of course, that was more than 25 years ago, and it snows heavier than when I moved here. Maybe we're getting closer to Indianapolis (can we blame this on Interstate 65?). Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_12a.3b711f6f.2d5eec8f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a messa= ge dated 2/12/04 6:17:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:=

Subject: pass ops question
From: "Fred in Vt." <pennsy@sover.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:51:32 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=3D_NextPart_000_0053_01C3F15E.8EC23D20
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset=3D"iso-8859-1"

List,
   several sources report that an L&N sleeper was attached to=20= an =3D
eastbond train at Steubenville, Oh..My question is:
a] was this an empty car held in Mingo yard to be added to this train =3D each night as a protect service unit----or----

b] did this car work it's way from Memphis or Atlanta to Cincinnati, =3D
and then on the "back road" through Washington CH, to Zanesville, to =3D
Bellaire, Martins Ferry, and Steubenville?

the type of car varied from 8-1-3 to a 12-1-----it is well known,only I =3D<= BR> can't figure out which answer applies. Does anyone have a clue they are =3D<= BR> willing to share?
Thanks--------Fred in Vt


Fred,

Passenger movements on the "back way" died very early in Pennsy trainoff his= tory.  Right out of the box, I'd say you'd have real trouble getting a=20= Pullman across the Cincinnati & Muskingum Valley ("Zanesville Branch") e= ven by WW2.  All the parts of it I knew well were a neglected, third-cl= ass branch line with very old rail, hazardous enough to navigate with a few=20= freight cars.  So "probably not" that way -- and if it had, the car wou= ld surely have been added at Trinway, where the C&MV rejoined the Panhan= dle main.

Incidentally, I don't think there was any "back road" via Bellaire -- the on= ly PRR route Zanesville-Bellaire was the Ohio River & Western, and that=20= was 3-foot-gauge until abandonment.

I've lost the sense of when this event was observed.  Could this be one= of the Cincinnati Limited cars off the L&N?  These three sleeper l= ines (typically Memphis- Nashville- and Louisville-to-New York) usually ran=20= on #40 eastbound, but daylight savings time and other factors sometimes slid= them around.

As Chuck Blardone details in our upcoming book on Cincinnati, the L&N co= ntributed 3 cars to this pool, and when replaced with lightweight 10-6's aft= er WW2, they were painted in tuscan at first.  This pool continued unti= l the two roads stopped interchanging sleepers at Cincinnati.  BTW -- d= ig it -- a sleeper was westbound to Cincinnati on the PRR, and then became s= outhbound on the L&N -- even if headed for Memphis.  Much more from= Chuck in the upcoming PRRT&HS publication.

Need I point out that there are plenty of reasons an L&N-painted sleeper= could be headed east on the Panhandle on ANY passenger train, including: 1. the regularly assigned PRR or L&N car didn't turn around on the L&= ;N fast enough
2. a regularly assigned PRR or L&N car had to be removed from a consist=20= for repairs.
4. an extra movement east from somewhere on the L&N has made this car av= ailable for another extra movement east.

PRR cars from the Cincinnati Limited also showed up down here in Kentucky.&n= bsp; Jack Fravert took a nice slide of a tuscan 10-6 on the end of an L&= N train from Cincinnati entering Louisville's suburbs after a photogenic sno= w.  Of course, a good-looking snow cover in Louisville was probably mor= e unusual than the tuscan sleeper.

Incidentally, Louisville used to cancel school every time it snowed -- it us= ually melted so fast they had no plows.  Of course, that was more than=20= 25 years ago, and it snows heavier than when I moved here.  Maybe we're= getting closer to Indianapolis (can we blame this on Interstate 65?).

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_12a.3b711f6f.2d5eec8f_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRTRAINS@aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 00:31:40 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI M1b: My View (continued) After the second E-mail I would have been looking for a PHONE number .I think we are all guilty of leaning on the key board too hard so before you bash BLI think of picking up the PHONE next time and call. NOT GOOD Business. think about it.... &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;& nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;& nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;& nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;& nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;& nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; PRR BOB --part1_126.3af17525.2d5f0cbc_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" After the second E-mail I would hav= e been looking for a PHONE number .I think we are all guilty of leaning on t= he key board too hard so before you bash BLI think of picking up the PHONE n= ext time and call. NOT GOOD Business. think about it....
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n= bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&a= mp;nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs= p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&= ;nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;= &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n= bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&a= mp;nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs= p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&= ;nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; PRR BOB --part1_126.3af17525.2d5f0cbc_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRTRAINS@aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 00:59:47 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI PRR models Gentelman, We seem to forget this is a hobby! This means we buy we build we make it our owne. We are becoming very spoiled. I always bitch about the younger guys they want it but DON"T want to build or work for it. BLI is doing 95% for us all that is left is 5% and all we do is BITCH. I sat thank you BLI now I can detail you and have more time to run and injoy.. Bob P. --part1_fb.4fbd4240.2d5f1353_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Gentelman,
   We seem to forget this is a hobby! This means we buy we build w= e make it our owne. We are becoming very spoiled. I always bitch about the y= ounger guys they want it but DON"T want to build or work for it. BLI  i= s doing 95% for us all that is left is 5% and all we do is BITCH. I sat than= k you BLI now I can detail you and have more time to run and injoy..
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;            = Bob P. --part1_fb.4fbd4240.2d5f1353_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963@aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 10:31:47 EST Subject: [PRR] Horse Shoe Curve Radius Does any one on the list know the approximate radius of the inside track of Horse Shoe Curve. Thanks, Harold -------------------------------1076772706 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Does any one on the list know the approximate radius of the inside trac= k of Horse Shoe Curve.
 
Thanks,
 
Harold
-------------------------------1076772706-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 11:49:03 EST Subject: [PRR] Getting steam up. X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7,11-19 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: aurora7@juno.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I would once again urge all Pennsy fans to check out the "Friends of Locomotive #35 at the URL below. These folks have the custody of one of the last two LIRR G5s 4-6-0's. Currnetly, 35 is disassembled and tended to. She needs to be tubed, flued, and reassembled in order to make her run, and that is likely to happen only with the support of people like us. Her sister locomotive, #39, is supported by the Rail Road Museum of Long Island, and has a grant for rebuilding. We may see #39 running in the next few years, should everything go as planned and scheduled. Pennsy fans can expect to see K4s #1361 run again, but that's it. Running the G's and the K4 would be a prototypical dream. What would you do to see two G5's and a K4 steaming together in a yard, or passing each other, or double-headed? http://www.lirr35.org/ Check out the site. This is modeling on a 1:1 scale. Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "L. Heintz" Subject: [PRR] H30 / H30a - Observations & Questions Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 14:59:12 -0500 Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:28:02 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] H30 / H30a - Observations & Questions Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Greetings to Lynn, Jerry and the List: The Enola Steel Car Shop was opened in the 1920s. New hoppers and gondolas of various classes were built there before WWII, and new hoppers were built there after WWII. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. ----------------------------------------------------------------- L. Heintz wrote: > Were all PRR freight cars built > "new" in Altoona ?? I know that rebuild programs were conducted at other > shops but what about new programs ?? > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN@aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 14:48:57 EST Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] L&N-painted sleeper? Interesting puzzle. At one time there was a Wheeling-New York sleeper. Could PRR have borrowed an L&N car and it ended up in Wheeling one day? If this move at Steubenville was a regular occurrence, then my theory probably won't fly. Rich Copeland Jamison, PA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] G38 Ore test Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:04:15 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, I just bought a bunch of PRR Builders photos. That should not be surprising. There were a few G38 and G39 photos in the lot. Also included were 4 photos of G38 # 15943 that I don't think are real PRR Builders photos, but appear to be showing the car wired for some kind of test. There is a large terminal block on the bolster just above the truck, and wires running all over the car. Any ideas of what is going on here? Thank You, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:04:15 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] G38 Ore test Hi All, I just bought a bunch of PRR Builders photos. That should not be surprising. There were a few G38 and G39 photos in the lot. Also included were 4 photos of G38 # 15943 that I don't think are real PRR Builders photos, but appear to be showing the car wired for some kind of test. There is a large terminal block on the bolster just above the truck, and wires running all over the car. Any ideas of what is going on here? Thank You, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Douglas Nelson" Subject: RE: [PRR] New Milepost for Horseshoe Curve 150th Anniversary Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:33:57 -0800 Great work Pat! Thank you. Doug Nelson -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of PKMac101@aol.com Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 2:41 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] New Milepost for Horseshoe Curve 150th Anniversary List, Here is the link to the article for a New Milepost at the Horseshoe Curve. It is part of the NRHS, Horseshoe Curve Chpt. Coal Bucket. Click on the picture to enlarge it. It was a worth while endeavor. Thanks for looking. Pat McKinney Click here: Horseshoe Curve, NRHS - The Interchange ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3F320.BADBB5D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

Great work Pat!  Thank = you.

 

Doug = Nelson

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf = Of PKMac101@aol.com
Sent: Friday, February = 13, 2004 2:41 PM
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] New = Milepost for Horseshoe Curve 150th Anniversary

 

List,
       Here is the link to the article for = a New Milepost at the Horseshoe Curve. It is part of the NRHS, Horseshoe Curve = Chpt. Coal Bucket. Click on the picture to enlarge it. It was a worth while = endeavor. Thanks for looking.

Pat McKinney




Click = here: Horseshoe Curve, NRHS - The Interchange

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3F320.BADBB5D0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 21:13:29 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Who Wants MG in N Scale? Jerry, Put me down for a "MG" and most definitely a "ALTO". Pat McKinney --part1_1d2.19b26cbd.2d602fc9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Jerry,
         Put me down for a "MG" and=20= most definitely a "ALTO".

Pat McKinney --part1_1d2.19b26cbd.2d602fc9_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 21:32:01 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Horse Shoe Curve Radius Harold, &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am not exactly sure how much tighter the inner #1 trk is verses the former outer #4 trk is. I think that the center line of all four trks was 8 degrees-30 mins on the eastern portion and the western portion was 9 degrees- 25 mins. Total length is 2,270 ft. This from an engineering book field notes of 1-1-62. Pat McKinney Altoona, Pa. --part1_82.54d1b38.2d603421_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Harold,
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n= bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am not exactly sure how much tighter the inner #1= trk is verses the former outer #4 trk is. I think that the center line of a= ll four trks was 8 degrees-30 mins on the eastern portion and the western po= rtion was 9 degrees- 25 mins. Total length is 2,270 ft. This from an enginee= ring book field notes of 1-1-62.

Pat McKinney
Altoona, Pa. --part1_82.54d1b38.2d603421_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 21:49:09 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Some interesting facts for Altoona in 1945/46 List, While looking for notes concerning max. radius for I1s,I found these following notes. Altoona Yard,Cars Handled - 1945 - 4,411,651 or avg. of 367,637 per month. Cars humped at "SCALES" during 1946 - 897,490. Altoona yard - as of 4-1-47 from "BELL" to "SLOPE", Main trks - 28.96 miles of trk. Altoona yard,excl. Altoona Works, 172.70 miles of track. Altoona Works - 32.62 miles of tracks. Pat McKinney Altoona, Pa. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 21:49:09 EST Subject: [PRR] Some interesting facts for Altoona in 1945/46 List, While looking for notes concerning max. radius for I1s,I found these following notes. Altoona Yard,Cars Handled - 1945 - 4,411,651 or avg. of 367,637 per month. Cars humped at "SCALES" during 1946 - 897,490. Altoona yard - as of 4-1-47 from "BELL" to "SLOPE", Main trks - 28.96 miles of trk. Altoona yard,excl. Altoona Works, 172.70 miles of track. Altoona Works - 32.62 miles of tracks. Pat McKinney Altoona, Pa. --part1_1e2.198ea44b.2d603825_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" List,
      While looking for notes concerning max. radiu= s for I1s,I found these following notes.
  Altoona Yard,Cars Handled - 1945 - 4,411,651 or avg. of 367,637 per m= onth.
  Cars humped at "SCALES" during 1946 - 897,490.
  Altoona yard - as of 4-1-47 from "BELL" to "SLOPE", Main trks - 28.96= miles of  trk.
  Altoona yard,excl. Altoona Works, 172.70 miles of track.
  Altoona Works - 32.62 miles of tracks.

Pat McKinney
Altoona, Pa. --part1_1e2.198ea44b.2d603825_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Backup lights on 210F75 & 210F75a tenders Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 22:19:52 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, Did the 210F75 and 210F75a tenders have a backup headlight on them with any frequency? I have never seen a photo, but as we know never say never on the PRR. I am assuming it would be to the right of the doghouse looking from the rear if they existed. I am considering removing the antennas from at least one of my tenders to make it different. ALL of the larger S Scale tenders were made with antennas, including the recent 210F82 for the J1. I realize the hatches will be wrong at that point, but I will have to live with that. I could easily add a back up headlight as an additional detail. Thank You, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 22:19:52 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Backup lights on 210F75 & 210F75a tenders Hi All, Did the 210F75 and 210F75a tenders have a backup headlight on them with any frequency? I have never seen a photo, but as we know never say never on the PRR. I am assuming it would be to the right of the doghouse looking from the rear if they existed. I am considering removing the antennas from at least one of my tenders to make it different. ALL of the larger S Scale tenders were made with antennas, including the recent 210F82 for the J1. I realize the hatches will be wrong at that point, but I will have to live with that. I could easily add a back up headlight as an additional detail. Thank You, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 09:51:50 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR Signals If you haven't heard, Oregon Rail Supply is doing the squared off lower quadrant signal. http://www.oregonrail.com/newsignal.html Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1076856710 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
If you haven't heard,  Oregon Rail Supply is doing the squared off= lower quadrant signal.
 

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1076856710-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 09:55:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] 150 years ago today..... MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: PRR Fans, It was 150 years today the Horseshoe Curve opened to traffic. And the rest is history! Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:07:18 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] 150 years ago today..... In a message dated 2/15/2004 10:02:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, zootowerprr@webtv.net writes: > It was 150 years today the Horseshoe Curve opened to > traffic. And the rest is history! > > Dave Hopson > Well, not ALL the rest. The future, presumably, is not history . . . at least yet. Hmmmm. Lee Rainey --part1_7b.22738733.2d60e526_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 2/15/2004 10:02:= 14 AM Eastern Standard Time, zootowerprr@webtv.net writes:


It was 150 years today the Hors= eshoe Curve opened to
traffic. And the rest is history!

Dave Hopson


Well, not ALL the rest. The future, presumably, is not history . . . at leas= t yet.

Hmmmm.

Lee Rainey

 --part1_7b.22738733.2d60e526_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CENTGA@aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:32:59 EST Subject: [PRR] Pittsburgh What is the significance of the city names and the date 1900 on the inside of the columns of the rotunda at Pitt Union Station? Todd Horton --part1_cf.54babcb.2d61074b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" What is= the significance of the city names and the date 1900 on the inside of the c= olumns of the rotunda at Pitt Union Station?  Todd Horton --part1_cf.54babcb.2d61074b_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: [PRR] PRR C628's in HO and DCC Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:00:46 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Guys, I need some advice on the Stewart C628's. I need to put a decoder in PRR C628's and I am not sure which decoder to use or where to put it. Thanks Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: [PRR] PRR T&HS Keystones for sale Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:03:18 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Guys, I will be selling off my duplicate Keystones within the next month. Most of my dupes are from the mid 1980's to the late 1990's. If anyone is interested in getting a copy of my available issues and prices email me off list and I will send it when I complete it later this month. Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:33:39 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: [PRR] Re: Horse Shoe Curve Radius X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out006.verizon.net from [68.163.100.231] at Sun, 15 Feb 2004 14:33:26 -0600 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Harold, I understand there are different radii on the east and west ends of the curve, and of course there is a slight variation between the different tracks, but John Armstrong, in his book _Creative Layout Design_, gives the radius as 10 degrees, or 573 feet, which works out to 143 inches in O scale, 79 inches in HO, and 43 in N. He does not specify on which track. Steve Bartlett Hal6963 wrote: Does any one on the list know the approximate radius of the inside track of Horse Shoe Curve. Thanks, Harold ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 16:23:07 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] 150 Years Later List, One wonders what the weather was like February15,1854,but today it was cold but sunny with loads of snow on the ground with plenty of good train watching at the Horseshoe Curve and also at the recently widened Allegheny Tunnel at Gallitzin, which also celebreates its 150th anniversary of opening to through traffic. Visted the curve in the early morning, about 8:30am,to catch the 12G eastbound on 2 track and got some good pictures from the bottom of the curve and alas the 12G got the sliding wheel detector at MP241. There was no one else around at the time but Scott Cessna, David Seidel, Jody Kinsel, Dick Charlesworth along with Dan Cupper ventured up to the top a little later for a morning of train watching. Got back to old "SF" on the east side of the Allegheny Tunnel about noon and met Dan Cupper. Got to see eastbound Amtrak No.40. Eastbound Amtrak No. 40 was a little late but looked spectacular coming through the east portal of the Allegheny Tunnel. Would have looked just as spectacular on the Horseshoe but can not be two places at the same time. Down to the Curve about 1pm and walked up the ice crusted deep snow covered steps to the top. Got pictures of a westbound doublestack,westbound Amtrak No.45,an eastbound mixed freight and a eastbound NS 536 loaded coal train. There were others trains headed in both the eastward and westward directions when I left and they should have made more good opportunities for Dan Cupper,Bob Airhart,his friend Phill and an diehard railfan family of 4 that walked to the top to witness train movement 150 years after the opening of the Pennsylvania Railroads through route. Of course the Pittsburgh East train dispatcher more than likely had no idea of what was being celebrated today by the few that ventured up to the Horseshoe Curve to see this magnificent engineering achievement. To him, it was probably just another routine day and could not wait to go home. I'll talk to him later to find out. Pat McKinney Altoona,Pa. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 16:23:07 EST Subject: [PRR] 150 Years Later List, One wonders what the weather was like February15,1854,but today it was cold but sunny with loads of snow on the ground with plenty of good train watching at the Horseshoe Curve and also at the recently widened Allegheny Tunnel at Gallitzin, which also celebreates its 150th anniversary of opening to through traffic. Visted the curve in the early morning, about 8:30am,to catch the 12G eastbound on 2 track and got some good pictures from the bottom of the curve and alas the 12G got the sliding wheel detector at MP241. There was no one else around at the time but Scott Cessna, David Seidel, Jody Kinsel, Dick Charlesworth along with Dan Cupper ventured up to the top a little later for a morning of train watching. Got back to old "SF" on the east side of the Allegheny Tunnel about noon and met Dan Cupper. Got to see eastbound Amtrak No.40. Eastbound Amtrak No. 40 was a little late but looked spectacular coming through the east portal of the Allegheny Tunnel. Would have looked just as spectacular on the Horseshoe but can not be two places at the same time. Down to the Curve about 1pm and walked up the ice crusted deep snow covered steps to the top. Got pictures of a westbound doublestack,westbound Amtrak No.45,an eastbound mixed freight and a eastbound NS 536 loaded coal train. There were others trains headed in both the eastward and westward directions when I left and they should have made more good opportunities for Dan Cupper,Bob Airhart,his friend Phill and an diehard railfan family of 4 that walked to the top to witness train movement 150 years after the opening of the Pennsylvania Railroads through route. Of course the Pittsburgh East train dispatcher more than likely had no idea of what was being celebrated today by the few that ventured up to the Horseshoe Curve to see this magnificent engineering achievement. To him, it was probably just another routine day and could not wait to go home. I'll talk to him later to find out. Pat McKinney Altoona,Pa. --part1_1ed.1923c57c.2d613d3b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" List,
       One wonders what the weather was like F= ebruary15,1854,but today it was cold but sunny with loads of snow on the gro= und with plenty of good train watching at the Horseshoe Curve and also at th= e recently widened Allegheny Tunnel at Gallitzin, which also celebreates its= 150th anniversary of opening to through traffic.
     Visted the curve in the early morning, about 8:30am= ,to catch the 12G eastbound on 2 track and got some good pictures from the b= ottom of the curve and alas the 12G got the sliding wheel detector at MP241.= There was no one else around at the time but Scott Cessna, David Seidel, Jo= dy Kinsel, Dick Charlesworth along with Dan Cupper ventured up to the top a=20= little later for a morning of train watching.
      Got back to old "SF" on the east side of the=20= Allegheny Tunnel about noon and met Dan Cupper. Got to see eastbound Amtrak=20= No.40. Eastbound Amtrak No. 40 was a little late but looked spectacular comi= ng through the east portal of the Allegheny Tunnel.  Would have looked=20= just as spectacular on the Horseshoe but can not be two places at the same t= ime. Down to the Curve about 1pm and walked up the ice crusted deep snow cov= ered steps to the top. Got pictures of a westbound doublestack,westbound Amt= rak No.45,an eastbound mixed freight and a eastbound NS 536 loaded coal trai= n.
    There were others trains headed in both the eastward and=20= westward directions when I left and they should have made more good opportun= ities for Dan Cupper,Bob Airhart,his friend Phill and an diehard railfan fam= ily of 4 that walked to the top to witness train movement 150 years after th= e opening of the Pennsylvania Railroads through route.
    Of course the Pittsburgh East train dispatcher more than=20= likely had no idea of what was being celebrated today by the few that ventur= ed up to the Horseshoe Curve to see this magnificent engineering achievement= . To him, it was probably just another routine day and could not wait to go=20= home. I'll talk to him later to find out.

Pat McKinney
Altoona,Pa. --part1_1ed.1923c57c.2d613d3b_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John and Peg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Horse Shoe Curve Radius Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:10:37 -0500 Harold, Have you been to S. Berliner III's Horseshoe Curve Page? This page covers prototype, HO and N scale dimensions for the curve. As I recall Berliner lists the following radius for "the curve" in HO: Track 1 (inside track) - 83", Track 2 - 85", Center of all 4 tracks - 86", Track 3 - 86", Track 4 (outside) - 87" The author of this page has done a large amount of research and calculations and offers way more info on this topic (including but not limited to satellite images of the curve) and many other topics of interest. Also what I have listed here is from my memory (not always that good) so here the link: http://home.att.net/~Berliner-Ultrasonics/hshucurv.html Please go there and verify this. I think the last time I was at this site the author had suffered from a loss of material, images and links... and was working to restore them although the Horseshoe Curve stuff seemed intact to me. Hope this helps! On a related note (and I may have missed this on the above site). Does anyone know? 1) will these dimensions allow for clearances of HO equipment and 2) how much "super elevation" is recommended on these curves? Thanks, John Dolensky -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Hal6963@aol.com Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 10:32 AM To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Horse Shoe Curve Radius Does any one on the list know the approximate radius of the inside track of Horse Shoe Curve. Thanks, Harold ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C3F3F7.65513B80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Harold,
 
Have you been to S. Berliner III's = Horseshoe=20 Curve Page?  This page covers prototype, HO and N scale dimensions = for the=20 curve.  As I recall Berliner lists the following radius for "the = curve" in=20 HO:
 
Track 1 (inside track) - =  83", Track 2=20 - 85", Center of all 4 tracks - 86", Track 3 - 86", Track 4 = (outside) -=20 87"
 
The author of this page has done a = large=20 amount of research and calculations and offers way more info on this = topic=20 (including but not limited to satellite images of the curve) and many = other=20 topics of interest.  Also what I have listed here is from my memory = (not=20 always that good) so here the link: http://h= ome.att.net/~Berliner-Ultrasonics/hshucurv.html  Please go there=20 and verify this.  I think the last time I was at this site the = author had=20 suffered from a loss of material, images and links... and was working to = restore=20 them although the Horseshoe Curve stuff seemed intact to = me.
 
Hope this helps!
 
On a related note (and I may have = missed=20 this on the above site). Does anyone know? 1) will these = dimensions=20 allow for clearances of HO equipment and 2) how much "super elevation" = is=20 recommended on these curves?
 
Thanks,
 
John Dolensky 
 
 
 
 
 
&nbs= p;
-----Original Message-----
From: = PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of = Hal6963@aol.com
Sent:=20 Saturday, February 14, 2004 10:32 AM
To:=20 Prr-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] Horse Shoe Curve=20 Radius

Does any one on the list know the approximate radius of the = inside track=20 of Horse Shoe Curve.
 
Thanks,
 
Harold
------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C3F3F7.65513B80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 16:25:30 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: RE: [PRR] Horse Shoe Curve Radius From: "John and Peg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Horse Shoe Curve Radius Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 21:07:05 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20040216002530.59908.qmail@web13202.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Ok, Sweet Old Bob is absolutely correct... My bad. I'm pretty sure Track 1 (inside track) - 83", Track 2 - 85" and the Center of all 4 tracks - 86". which must make Track 3 - 87"?, Track 4 (outside) - 89"? ..... Ok I did warn you about my memory...lol Hey Bob, are 2" centers better? John Dolensky, Akron -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of robert netzlof Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 7:26 PM To: John and Peg; Hal6963@aol.com; Prr-Talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] Horse Shoe Curve Radius --- John and Peg wrote: > Harold, > > Have you been to S. Berliner III's Horseshoe Curve Page? This page > covers > prototype, HO and N scale dimensions for the curve. As I recall > Berliner > lists the following radius for "the curve" in HO: > > Track 1 (inside track) - 83", Track 2 - 85", Center of all 4 > tracks - 86", > Track 3 - 86", Track 4 (outside) - 87" > > On a related note (and I may have missed this on the above site). > Does > anyone know? 1) will these dimensions allow for clearances of HO > equipment... Look again at the numbers: Trk 2 - 85" Trk 3 - 86" Trk 4 - 87" One inch from track to track is not going to allow clearance in HO scale, nor can it be a correct reduction from 1:1 scale. It implies the actual curve has tracks spaced 87 inches (7' 3") center to center. That's too close together by 5 or 6 feet (or more). ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <0B02824B-6029-11D8-8852-000A9570A806@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] "SO" (South Fork) Interlocking Plant Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 21:37:20 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.612) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Looking for photos of the SO interlocking plant area, including track work and structures. "Triumph I" is the only source I really have thus far. It has a 1910 track chart. I have a 1958 as well from another source. Unfortunately, Triumph doesn't really have photos of the plant itself. Page 205 features a track chart showing a label for a "Coaling Station" on the north side of the mains. The caption indicates it is for "South Fork Branch power". There is no structure on the chart itself. I doubt it was actually on the north side, as it would make more sense to have it on the south side, at the west stub end of the 0 track coming off the South Fork Branch wye. Anyone know? And does anyone know when this coal tower may have been razed? Did it survive to 1954? Anyone have any other tidbits that might help in modeling this area very accurately? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 23:08:57 EST Subject: [PRR] Need I1sa #4528 picture X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: aurora7@juno.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Can anyone email a clear photo of I1 decapod, #4528? Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "There are no stupid questions, but there are many inquisitive idiots." ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 08:06:24 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Need I1sa #4528 picture From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" >From: aurora7@juno.com >Subject: [PRR] Need I1sa #4528 picture >Date: Sun, Feb 15, 2004, 22:08 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:14:24 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Need I1sa #4528 picture X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,3-10 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: aurora7@juno.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: THANK YOU, DON! I think you sent it to me once before, but a massive technology failure (note: not involving water, coal, or steam) caused my hard drive to go flop. I very much appreciate the second chance. Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "There are no stupid questions, but there are many inquisitive idiots." ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mark Taylor" Subject: [PRR] Truck Use Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:25:13 -0500 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:32:13 -0600 Subject: [PRR] brake wheels on PRR heavyweights From: Bruce Smith Message-Id: <4B573A82-6095-11D8-B09A-000A958DAD46@mail.auburn.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Good Morning, I did some additional investigation regarding the question of (external) brake wheels on P70 coaches, and broadened the scope of the investigation. As of now, I have precisely one photograph showing a P70 with a brake wheel and that photo was circa 1937. Here are some generalizations. P70 (as built w/end windows) - no brake wheel P70 (with blank ends) - ?? (I believe no brake wheel was most common, but as above, some cars may have had at least one) P70 (modernized) - no brake wheel, lever type hand brake in vestibule end Baggage cars (B60B, B70, B74B, etc) - one brake wheel R50B, R60 - one brake wheel PB70 - one brake wheel, on the baggage end, at least through the PB70D class D78 - brake wheels on BOTH ends, at least up to (not including) the "D" subclass. At least one photo of a D78D shows the chain from the old brake wheel led to a lever brake outside the end door (within the diaphragm) on the kitchen end of the car. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:03:54 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Truck Use for M70B From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Monday, February 16, 2004, at 09:25 AM, Mark Taylor wrote: > List; any thoughts or recomendations on a suitable truck to use under > a Bethlehem Car Works M70b RPO.I am considering robbing trucks off of > a Bachmann Spectrum PB70. I also want this truck to be durable enough > for continued operation.Any suggestions? Mark Mark, We've talked about PRR three axle (6 wheel) trucks a number of time (check the archives "3 axle passenger trucks" for the details). For the M70B, the best two trucks are the 3C-P1, which these cars were built with, and which USED to be available from Precision Scale and the 3D-P1/3D7P2. The good news is that Botchman's POST WAR cars have a pretty good 3D-P1/3D7P2. Be careful however, because the pre war combine's trucks are some bastard hybridization and are not accurate. Precision Scale makes a 3D5P2, which is basically a modernized 3C-P1, but I did not find any RPO photos showing this truck. I'll try to remember to check if you can use this truck on the PB70. BTW, a word of warning - I grit blasted the rivet detail right off of my M70B a couple of nights ago, so the plastic is VERY soft. The same was not true of my ECW B60B (before he sold the kit to ECW). Now, this M70B has been through a lot, it is true, this being its 3rd complete stripping. The first two in a variety of different nasties including I think brake fluid, and ELO...which may have damaged the styrene polymer. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:21:16 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] "SO" (South Fork) Interlocking Plant Jerry, I have a photocopy of a 1951 track chart which does not show any coaling facility at SO. There is a waterplug a W on the north side of the flyover track right at the switch. There are two small unidentified structures inside the wye on the 0 track and another south of the flyover track at Grant St. Grant Street is on an overhead bridge. Rich Orr -------------------------------1076948476 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Jerry,
 
I have a photocopy of a 1951 track chart which does not show any coalin= g facility at SO.  There is a waterplug a W on the north side of the fl= yover track right at the switch.  There are two small unidentified stru= ctures inside the wye on the 0 track and another south of the flyover track=20= at Grant St.  Grant Street is on an overhead bridge.
 
Rich Orr
-------------------------------1076948476-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] PBS Blues show Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:15:05 +0000 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:33:40 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI PRR Models From: John Sheets From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Renovo pronunciation Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:51:11 +0000 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:51:37 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Re: 150 years later From: John Sheets From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Truck Use for M70B Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:06:47 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Smith" > Precision Scale makes a 3D5P2, which is basically a modernized 3C-P1, > but I did not find any RPO photos showing this truck. I'll try to > remember to check if you can use this truck on the PB70. My data says PB70 yes, M70B no. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:18:22 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Truck Use for M70B From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Monday, February 16, 2004, at 02:06 PM, Bob Zoeller wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bruce Smith" >> Precision Scale makes a 3D5P2, which is basically a modernized 3C-P1, >> but I did not find any RPO photos showing this truck. I'll try to >> remember to check if you can use this truck on the PB70. > > My data says PB70 yes, M70B no. > > Bob Zoeller Bob, Thats GREAT! So, I'd be interested to hear how the botchman truck swaps over to the BCW M70B and I'll looks at how hard it might be to put the Precision truck under my PB70 (I have too many of these trucks!) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:51:52 EST Subject: [PRR] South Fork coaling tower In a message dated 2/16/04 1:12:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > And does anyone know when this coal tower may have been razed? Did it > survive to 1954? Believe I've seen a photo of Trainmasters under this coaling tower. If so, that would bring it forward to at least 1956. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_121.2b06065e.2d629578_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 2/16/04 1:12:06=20= AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:

And does anyone know when this=20= coal tower may have been razed? Did it
survive to 1954?


Believe I've seen a photo of Trainmasters under this coaling tower.  If= so, that would bring it forward to at least 1956.

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_121.2b06065e.2d629578_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Cprrboss@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:52:12 EST Subject: [PRR] Decoder C628 Subject: PRR C628's in HO and DCC From: "Brian J Carlson" Brian, RE a decoder for Stewart C628. According to Loys Toys website (www.loystoys.com) any wired decoder with NMRA plug and 1 1/2" wire should work. Or, TCS TH150-DP or Digitrax DH163IP are both plug in and simple to install. I prefer TCS-they work fine, are fairly quiet and have a goof proof warranty. Check out the referenced web site for more details. Bob Martin --part1_12a.3ba90e49.2d62958c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

Subject: PRR C628's in HO and DCC
From: "Brian J Carlson" <brian@net.bluemoon.net>

Brian,  

RE a decoder for Stewart C628.  According to Loys Toys website (www= .loystoys.com)  any wired decoder with NMRA plug and 1 1/2" wire should= work.  Or, TCS TH150-DP or Digitrax DH163IP are both plug in and simpl= e to install.  I prefer TCS-they work fine, are fairly quiet and have a= goof proof warranty.  Check out the referenced web site for more detai= ls.

Bob Martin
--part1_12a.3ba90e49.2d62958c_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "J. Smith" Subject: [PRR] BLI M1: great but... Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:38:22 -0500 I am surprised that no one mentioned this before. I noticed that the = steam piping from the smoke box to the cylinders is not modeled. Yikes! = This is an important feature on a steam locomotive. It is going to = drive me nuts now that I noticed it. Otherwise, now that I have the = model weathered and oiled, it is a beauty. Just my opinion, Jeff Smith ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C3F4D5.33723540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
I am surprised that no one mentioned = this=20 before.  I noticed that the steam piping from the smoke box to the=20 cylinders is not modeled.  Yikes!  This is an important = feature on a=20 steam locomotive.  It is going to drive me nuts now that I noticed=20 it.  Otherwise, now that I have the model weathered and oiled, it = is a=20 beauty.
 
 
Just my opinion,
 
Jeff Smith
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C3F4D5.33723540-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:48:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI M1: great but... MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jeff, The BLI Mia/b lacks the steam delivery pipes you mention because the orginal did not have them. You are thinking of the plain M1 which had the external pipes. The M1a/b pipes were internal.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:32:11 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: [PRR] Cabin Car Roof Color Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I am as usual confused...what color roof would an N6 have in the early 1950's? I know, dirty...but what was under the soot? An archive search suggests that it would be black "after about 1940" but another posting says FCC was used on both... JIm McDaniel, Delmarva Cabin car painter ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Renovo pronunciation Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:42:10 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <3501579F8815D511AEC6009027CCB5D34FA8E6@HERZOGMGMT> Importance: Normal Return-Path: bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Feb 2004 13:35:33.0468 (UTC) FILETIME=[EAFAE9C0:01C3F55A] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I woundn't know of any other way to pronounce it but interestingly enough, the station destination sign at Harrisburg Station spelled it RENOVA for years! -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of ndbprr@att.net Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 12:51 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Renovo pronunciation I have always prononced this as Reh-know-vah with the accent on the second sylable. Is this correct? Thanks ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:55:59 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin Car Roof Color From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at 07:32 AM, James L. McDaniel wrote: > I am as usual confused...what color roof would an N6 have in the early > 1950's? I know, dirty...but what was under the soot? > > An archive search suggests that it would be black "after about 1940" > but another posting says FCC was used on both... Jim, Black started to be used on the roofs in the early to mid 1950's. If you look at photos carefully, you can see a LOT of red roofs, especially on N6Bs late into the 1950s. After all, they were mostly in local service and weren't getting repainted too frequently. Circa 1944, ALL my cabins have FCC roofs. For you, a newly repainted cabin MIGHT have a black roof, but your weathered cars should all have red roofs... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:00:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin Car Roof Color MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jim, There is a chance the N6b, or any cabin class for that matter, except for the N8's, in very early 1950's be found with either Black or FCC. As built it would have been FCC. Even N5c's of 1942 when built were FCC roofs. I want to say 1947 was the change over to Black, but of course all didn't get it until painting was actually necessary. So either color is prototypical.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Renovo pronunciation Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:12:17 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: That's how the locals pronounce it. Accent on the second syllable; last syllable vah, not voh. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 12:51 PM Subject: [PRR] Renovo pronunciation > I have always prononced this as Reh-know-vah with the accent on the second sylable. Is this correct? Thanks > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI M1: great but... Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:13:20 -0500 Do you have an M-1b? I believe piping was internal. Bill ----- Original Message -----=20 From: J. Smith=20 To: prr-talk=20 Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 9:38 PM Subject: [PRR] BLI M1: great but... I am surprised that no one mentioned this before. I noticed that the = steam piping from the smoke box to the cylinders is not modeled. Yikes! = This is an important feature on a steam locomotive. It is going to = drive me nuts now that I noticed it. Otherwise, now that I have the = model weathered and oiled, it is a beauty. Just my opinion, Jeff Smith ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C3F53E.AB3599A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Do you have an M-1b?  I believe piping was=20 internal.
 
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 J.=20 Smith
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 = 9:38=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] BLI M1: great = but...

I am surprised that no one mentioned = this=20 before.  I noticed that the steam piping from the smoke box to = the=20 cylinders is not modeled.  Yikes!  This is an important = feature on a=20 steam locomotive.  It is going to drive me nuts now that I = noticed=20 it.  Otherwise, now that I have the model weathered and oiled, it = is a=20 beauty.
 
 
Just my opinion,
 
Jeff = Smith
------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C3F53E.AB3599A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI M1: great but... Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:08:38 -0600 M1 had external piping. M1a and M1b both had internal steam delivery. = Since BLI's current offering doesn't include the M1, all of them have = internal steam delivery, as they should. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message -----=20 From: William Bigler=20 Do you have an M-1b? I believe piping was internal. Bill ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C3F53E.03581EB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
M1 had external piping. M1a and M1b = both had=20 internal steam delivery.  Since BLI's current offering doesn't = include the=20 M1, all of them have internal steam delivery, as they = should.
 
Bob Zoeller
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 William=20 Bigler
 
Do you have an M-1b?  I believe piping = was=20 internal.
 
Bill
 
------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C3F53E.03581EB0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:33:55 -0500
 Listers,
 
 
Does anyone = know if Waddell=20 Mining Company Hoppers could be found on PRR=20 trains?
 
 
 
see this = website for a photo=20 scroll down a little.
 
http://www.the= oldandwearycarshop.com/future.html
=
 
 
Chris=20 Chany

 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3F573.D5D1DA90-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "edmund burbage" Subject: [PRR] question Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:19:26 -0500 Does anyone have a listing of Reporting Marks for Rail Cars? I wanted to know whose cars are marked WMIX? I think Warner Co. in Penna = along the Delaware River myself. leeprrswitchkey@msn.com Lee BURBAGE ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C3F558.AA9C4100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Does anyone have a listing of Reporting Marks for Rail Cars?
 
I wanted to know whose cars are marked WMIX? I think Warner Co. in = Penna=20 along the Delaware River myself.
 
=
 
 
Lee BURBAGE
 
------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C3F558.AA9C4100-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:12:49 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] question From: Paul W Metzger Lee, Can't remember right now where I got the list from (somewhere on the 'net), but here is the one you were asking about: WMIX Waste Management of Illinois Incorporated Paul Metzger On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:19:26 -0500 "edmund burbage" writes: Does anyone have a listing of Reporting Marks for Rail Cars? I wanted to know whose cars are marked WMIX? I think Warner Co. in Penna along the Delaware River myself. leeprrswitchkey@msn.com Lee BURBAGE ----__JNP_000_2532.64fe.3f5f Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Lee,
 
Can't remember right now where I got the list from (somewhere on the '= net),=20 but here is the one you were asking about:
 
WMIX   Waste Management of Illinois=20 Incorporated   
 
Paul Metzger
 
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:19:26 -0500 "edmund burbage" <leeprrswitchkey@msn.com>=20 writes:
Does anyone have a listing of Reporting Marks for Rail Cars?
 
I wanted to know whose cars are marked WMIX? I think Warner Co. in = Penna=20 along the Delaware River myself.
 
 
 
Lee BURBAGE
 
 
----__JNP_000_2532.64fe.3f5f-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] question Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:26:03 -0500 Ed, Try this one: http://www.fulltritty.com/railroading/reporting.html Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: edmund burbage=20 To: PRR-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 1:19 PM Subject: [PRR] question Does anyone have a listing of Reporting Marks for Rail Cars? I wanted to know whose cars are marked WMIX? I think Warner Co. in = Penna along the Delaware River myself. leeprrswitchkey@msn.com Lee BURBAGE ------=_NextPart_000_00A1_01C3F561.F8E69640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Ed,
 
Try this one: http://www.= fulltritty.com/railroading/reporting.html
 
Gregg Mahlkov
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 edmund=20 burbage
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, = 2004 1:19=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] question

Does anyone have a listing of Reporting Marks for Rail = Cars?
 
I wanted to know whose cars are marked WMIX? I think Warner Co. = in Penna=20 along the Delaware River myself.
 
=
 
 
Lee BURBAGE
 
------=_NextPart_000_00A1_01C3F561.F8E69640-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "edmund burbage" Subject: [PRR] question Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 15:05:26 -0500 Thank you all for your help. I found the answer. Thanks again. This is why Railroad Buffs are such great people. Lee Burbage BMCM USCG-Ret. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C3F567.7975B660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thank you all for your help. I found the answer. Thanks = again.
 
This is why Railroad Buffs are such great people.
 
 
Lee Burbage
BMCM USCG-Ret.
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C3F567.7975B660-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:37:55 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "sjlash" Subject: Re: [PRR] (Waddell Miniung hoppers) Chris and list, I can't remeber offhand where this company was but, I have several of these hoppers that were custom painted by the Old and Wea= ry Car shops hobby store. I just figured I'd use them with some of the odd ones offered by Bowser( Panther Creek, etc.) as hauling hard coal for use= by distributors for heating or by a company or railroad for mixing with a kn= own type for better results in heat or gas output, less ash etc. Jim =0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: Chany, Christopher=0D Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 11:42:34 AM=0D To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=0D Subject: [PRR]=0D =0D Listers,=0D =0D =0D Does anyone know if Waddell Mining Company Hoppers could be found on PRR trains?=0D =0D =0D =0D see this website for a photo scroll down a little.=0D =0D http://www.theoldandwearycarshop.com/future.html=0D =0D =0D Chris Chany=0D =0D =0D =20 --------------Boundary-00=_7309QL80000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1"
Chris and list,   I can't remeber offhand where this compa= ny was but,  I have several of these hoppers that were custom painte= d by the Old and Weary Car shops hobby store.  I just figured I'd us= e them with some of the odd ones offered by Bowser( Panther Creek, e= tc.) as hauling hard coal for use by distributors for heating o= r by a company or railroad for mixing with a known type for better r= esults in heat or gas output, less ash etc.   Jim 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: Tuesday, Feb= ruary 17, 2004 11:42:34 AM
Subject: [PRR]
 
&nb= sp;Listers,
 
 
Doe= s anyone know if Waddell Mining Company Hoppers could be found on PRR tra= ins?
 
 
 
see= this website for a photo scroll down a little.
 
 
 
Chr= is Chany
 
--------------Boundary-00=_7309QL80000000000000-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] March 24, 1965; DERAILMENT WEST OF WARSAW Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:12:32 -0500 PRR-Listers: While my family was celebrating my 3rd birthday, the following events = were unfolding on the Fort Wayne line. (Obviously a birthday present I = would not want!) It appears that train NF-6 was involved in a derailment in the vicinity = of Inwood, Indiana located between Plymouth and Warsaw. The approximate = time of derailment was at 10:00 pm on March 24, 1965. The action = unfolded as WC-5 departed Warsaw at 10:06 pm but stopped just east of = Inwood. WC-5 then backed up (as Extra 2254) 16 miles to Warsaw West = siding at 12:36. NF-6, headed by 2354 arrives in Warsaw; in the remarks = column, the operator writes "6 cars." Wreck Ex 7000 arrived from Fort = Wayne at 1:15am and then departs west to the wreck site at 1:24am. The = wreck train is there until it is in the clear at Vandale the next = morning at 10:38am. WC-5 finally departs Warsaw at 9:50 am (March 25). = The first regularly scheduled eastbound train to appear is train 22, the = Manhattan Limited at 1:39pm. The following eastbound trains did not = appear the morning of the 25th: CB-2, TT-8, 54. FW-24, TT-2, 52, GRE-2 = and FW-8. The following westbound trains did not appear that morning: = LCL-1-7, 45, CB-1, 23, 49 (General), 29 (Broadway). It is undocumented = as to where these trains were diverted to. A likely route could be the = B&O main between Tiffin, Ohio and Clarke Jct west of Gary, Indiana. By = looking at the travel speeds, it appears that the eastbound track was = effected in derailment. Unknown about the westbound track however, it = does appear that both main tracks were fouled due to the accident. = Unknown if another train other than NF-6 was involved. Unknown on cause = of accident. One possible cause could be a hot box; these were being = reported and documented by the tower operators on a regular basis. more breaking news on the way! Ted Andrews ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C3F579.3B2F2820 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
PRR-Listers:
 
While my family was celebrating my 3rd birthday, the following = events were=20 unfolding on the Fort Wayne line. (Obviously a birthday present I would = not=20 want!)
 

It appears that train = NF-6 was=20 involved in a derailment in the vicinity of Inwood, Indiana located = between=20 Plymouth and=20 Warsaw. The approximate time = of=20 derailment was at 10:00 pm = on=20 March 24, = 1965. The action=20 unfolded as WC-5 departed = Warsaw at=20 10:06 pm but stopped just = east of=20 Inwood. WC-5 then backed up (as Extra 2254)  16 miles to Warsaw = West siding=20 at 12:36. NF-6, headed by = 2354=20 arrives in Warsaw; in the = remarks=20 column, the operator writes =936 cars.=94 Wreck Ex 7000 arrived from=20 Fort Wayne at 1:15am and then departs west to the wreck site at = 1:24am. =20 The wreck train is there until it is in the clear at Vandale the = next=20 morning at 10:38am. WC-5 = finally=20 departs Warsaw at 9:50 am (March  25). The first regularly = scheduled=20 eastbound train to appear is train 22, the Manhattan Limited at = 1:39pm. The following eastbound = trains did not=20 appear the morning of the 25th: CB-2, TT-8, 54. FW-24, TT-2, = 52,=20 GRE-2 and FW-8. The following westbound trains did not appear that = morning:=20 LCL-1-7, 45, CB-1, 23, 49 (General), 29 (Broadway). It is undocumented = as to=20 where these trains were diverted to. A likely route could be the B&O = main=20 between Tiffin,=20 Ohio and Clarke Jct west of=20 Gary,=20 Indiana. By looking at the travel = speeds, it=20 appears that the eastbound track was effected in derailment.  Unknown about the westbound = track=20 however, it does appear that both main tracks were fouled due to the = accident.=20 Unknown if another train other than NF-6 was involved. Unknown on cause = of=20 accident. One possible cause could be a hot box; these were being = reported and=20 documented by the tower operators on a regular basis.

 

more breaking news on = the=20 way!

 

Ted=20 Andrews

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C3F579.3B2F2820-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:59:03 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "sjlash" Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin Car Roof Color Gary, Am I correct in assuming (very dangerous) that the N8's were delivered from Altoona with the black roofs? By the way, were these pain= ted black or was it some type of tar product over the roof? Thanks Jim =0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: Gary Mittner=0D Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 9:07:01 AM=0D To: jlmcdaniel@esva.net=0D Cc: PRR Talk=0D Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin Car Roof Color=0D =0D Jim,=0D =0D There is a chance the N6b, or any cabin class for that matter,=0D except for the N8's, in very early 1950's be found with either Black or=0D FCC. As built it would have been FCC. Even N5c's of 1942 when built were=0D FCC roofs. I want to say 1947 was the change over to Black, but of=0D course all didn't get it until painting was actually necessary. So=0D either color is prototypical.....Gary=0D =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art=0D Work!=0D =0D PRR K4s Loco Pics:=0D http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/=0D =0D PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.:=0D =0D http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html=0D =0D and......=0D =0D PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models:=0D =0D http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html=0D =0D =0D -----------------------------------------------------------------------=0D For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.=0D =0D =2E --------------Boundary-00=_F219WCW0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1"
Gary,  Am I correct in assuming (very dangerous) that the N8's = were delivered from Altoona with the black roofs?  By the way, = were these painted black or was it some type of tar product over the roof= ?     Thanks Jim 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: Tuesday, Feb= ruary 17, 2004 9:07:01 AM
Subject: Re: [PRR]= Cabin Car Roof Color
 
Jim,
 
      There is a chance the N6b, or any cab= in class for that matter,
except for the N8's, in very early 1950's be found with either Black= or
FCC. As built it would have been FCC. Even N5c's of 1942 when built = were
FCC roofs. I want to say 1947 was the change over to Black, but of
course all didn't get it until painting was actually necessary. So
either color is prototypical.....Gary
 
 
 
 
 
Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art
Work!
 
PRR K4s Loco Pics:
 
PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.:
 
 
and......
 
PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models:
 
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------= ---
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.
 
.
--------------Boundary-00=_F219WCW0000000000000-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:13:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin Car Roof Color MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jim, Yes, I am 99.999% sure the N8's had the Black roofs when built. I will leave that .001% as my escape if I happen to be wrong. (8-) Like I mentioned in my first post, I am thinking 1947 was the date of the change over to black. Being the N8 was built 3 years later, one can assume the Black was applied when built. No idea if it was black paint or a roof coating. I know the N5c we are restoring has layers upon layers of something on the roof. It chips right off leaving the bare metal. Is it dried layers of paint or a tar? Just can't tell.......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] (Waddell Miniung hoppers) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:26:59 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Chris and List, After looking up where Winton,PA was on Terraserver I would surmise that the mining company was not directly served by the PRR. Winton is a town north-east of Scranton the from what it looks like Route 6 goes through part of town. My guesses as to railroads that could have served this mine would be D&H, D,L&W, LV, or even the dreaded NYC. This of curse doesn't mean that you coudln't operate it in a PRR train. Actually if you hold operatiins sessions the only thing you would need is to put it in a yard or staging track in corolation with the nearest interchange point. Hope this helps. John Designer & Modeler Custom Model Railroads Baltimore, MD ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] Cabin car roof color Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:35:19 -0600 Though I initially agreed in general with your dates, Gary, I am = frantically searching photos for the N8 as I had always assumed (usual = comments,don't assume, yada yada) they came new with freight car color roofs. Had that very discussion with Pete Reinhold at Madison, WI, train show over the weekend as we studied the flyer from Bowser , who shows the N8 with = black roof and circle keystone, again something I didn't (maybe incorrectly) think existed. Back to the library! Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Gary Mittner" > Jim, > > Yes, I am 99.999% sure the N8's had the Black roofs when built. I > will leave that .001% as my escape if I happen to be wrong. (8-) = Like > I mentioned in my first post, I am thinking 1947 was the date of the > change over to black. Being the N8 was built 3 years later, one can > assume the Black was applied when built. > > No idea if it was black paint or a roof coating. I know the N5c we > are restoring has layers upon layers of something on the roof. It = chips > right off leaving the bare metal. Is it dried layers of paint or a = tar? > Just can't tell.......Gary ------=_NextPart_000_006D_01C3F584.CB905D70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Though I=20 initially agreed in general with your dates, Gary, I am = frantically
searching=20 photos for the N8 as I had always assumed (usual = comments,don't
assume, yada=20 yada) they came new with freight car color roofs.  Had that
very = discussion with Pete Reinhold at Madison, WI, train show over = the
weekend as=20 we studied the flyer from Bowser , who shows the N8 with black
roof = and=20 circle keystone, again something I didn't  (maybe = incorrectly)
think=20 existed.  Back to the library!

Bob  = Zoeller

-----=20 Original Message -----
From: "Gary Mittner" <mittner@webtv.net>


> = Jim,
>
>     Yes, I=20 am 99.999% sure the N8's had the Black roofs when built.  I
> = will=20 leave that .001% as my escape if I happen to be wrong. (8-)  =20 Like
> I mentioned in my first post, I am thinking 1947 was the = date of=20 the
> change over to black. Being the N8 was built 3 years later, = one=20 can
> assume the Black was applied when=20 built.
>
>     No idea if it was black = paint or=20 a roof coating. I know the N5c we
> are restoring has layers upon = layers=20 of something on the roof. It chips
> right off leaving the bare = metal. Is=20 it dried layers of paint or a tar?
> Just can't=20 tell.......Gary
------=_NextPart_000_006D_01C3F584.CB905D70-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:42:31 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] question Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:53:30 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: RE: [PRR] Renovo pronunciation > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of > Subject: [PRR] Renovo pronunciation From: "Douglas Day" Subject: [PRR] N6b Trucks. Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 20:54:18 -0500 I have a couple of built N6b cabins and I know the trucks on them are = not correct. Would the Bowser single coil spring trucks work? Did they = use leaf springs? I would like to correct them with the right trucks as = there is one Quality Craft one there yet to build. Doug (OH) ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C3F598.35F7EB20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
I have a couple of built N6b cabins and = I know the=20 trucks on them are not correct.  Would the Bowser single coil = spring trucks=20 work?  Did they use leaf springs?  I would like to correct = them with=20 the right trucks as there is one Quality Craft one there yet to=20 build.
 
Doug (OH)
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C3F598.35F7EB20-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] Head-end Oddballs Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:44:25 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gents, I have had a chance to surf around through the diagrams on Rob's site and have some questions I was hoping the vast plethora of knowledge here could answer for me. It all involves Head-end passenger equipment from the 30's mostly as far as I can tell. 1. The R50/R50a, how many were there and how long did they last on the system? The drawing scanned on Rob's site has a last revision date of 7-3-31 2. The R60, how many and how long did they last? 3. The B50, I know there was only one. Numbered 10001, any ideas as to how long it lasted on the system? The drawing scanned on Rob's site has a last revision date of 6-20-31 I am inquiring because aslthough these models are availible in brass I was looking at scratchbuilding at least one of them. Thanks ahead of time for any info. -John Designer & Modeler Custom Model Railroads Baltimore, MD ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 07:58:17 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin Car Roof Color Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Thanks for the help...I'll pick one ... or the other... Jim McDaniel, Delmarva Roofers ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 08:07:28 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin Car Roof Color From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at 04:13 PM, Gary Mittner wrote: > No idea if it was black paint or a roof coating. I know the N5c we > are restoring has layers upon layers of something on the roof. It chips > right off leaving the bare metal. Is it dried layers of paint or a tar? > Just can't tell.......Gary On the N8 it was probably black paint. On earlier cars it may well have been asphaltum or car cement. In fact that may be part of the time line problem. It seems that asphaltum was applied to many roofs over the years, and usually painted over. Black roofs could result from failing to paint the asphaltum or from poor paint adhesion prior to the changeover to black roofs. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:52:36 -0500 From: Drew McGhee Subject: Re: [PRR] Renovo pronunciation From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] (Waddell Mining hoppers) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:02:44 -0500 Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 11:15:27 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Columbia PA loco service facilities From: Bruce Smith Message-Id: <0BD6F6D3-6236-11D8-83DE-000A958DAD46@mail.auburn.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Good Morning, I am looking for any information anyone might have on the locomotive service facilities in Columbia PA circa 1944. Prior to electrification, Columbia was a major service location for steam, but with electrification, much of the facilities were eliminated. I do know that the turntable remained as well as a "double" water tank. In particular, I am looking for any information on the coaling facilities that remained, for helpers and local switch engines. A 1952 map shows some sort of "coal tower" on the lead to the river side of the turntable (this lead dead ends at the substation). I am suspicious that this "tower" might have been similar to those found at the Thorndale helper track, which were small Fairbanks Morse "ash hoists" used to fill tenders and remove ashes. Any info at all (photos, recollections, rumors) would be helpful! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:53:38 -0600 Subject: :[PRR] N6b Trucks. From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at 07:54 PM, Douglas Day wrote: > I have a couple of built N6b cabins and I know the trucks on them are=20= > not correct.=A0 Would the Bowser single coil spring trucks work?=A0 Yes, you can also use Precision Scale #32228 > Did they use leaf springs?=A0 I would like to correct them with the=20 > right trucks as there is one Quality Craft one there yet to build. Yes, both leaf and coil springs can be seen in photos. Happy Rails Bruce --Apple-Mail-10-38970660 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at 07:54 PM, Douglas Day wrote: ArialI have a couple of built N6b cabins and I know the trucks on them are not correct.=A0 Would the Bowser single coil spring trucks work?=A0=20 Yes, you can also use Precision Scale #32228Verdana ArialDid they use leaf springs?=A0 I would like to correct them with the right trucks as there is one Quality Craft one there yet to build. Yes, both leaf and coil springs can be seen in photos. Happy Rails Bruce --Apple-Mail-10-38970660-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 15:31:09 -0500 Subject: [PRR] SO, Summerhill Branch, Argyle Colliery From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <62B267D3-6251-11D8-BAF3-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Follow up to my SO posts from a few days ago... At SO interlocking (South Fork) the west connector of the South Fork Branch connected to the main line onto track 1. At the same location, connecting from the north side onto track 4, was the west connector of the Summerhill Branch. The 1945 CT1000C shows the "Argyle Colliery" located just 1/10 mile east of this connection on the Summerhill Branch. "Triumph I" has a 1995 aerial photo of the area. SO is just out of the photo, but you can clearly see the RoW of the Summerhill Branch. At what I am guessing would be about 1/10 mile from the interlocking is what appears to be a former RoW that would be a trailing point switch (switchback). I'm thinking this was probably the Argyle Colliery. The entire hillside is razed in the photo, so you really can't tell. Anyone know? Was the Argyle Colliery west of its connection to the Summerhill Branch, placing it essentially "above" SO interlocking on the hill? Both the "Travelling the Pennsylvania Railroad" book on the Rau photos (1890's) and Doug Nelson's recent book on the Hastings photos have photos looking southeast from just above the Summerhill Branch. I am guessing that these photos were likely taken from the property of the Argyle Colliery, if it was indeed where I think it was. (Get all that?) And now I am really reaching: Anyone know of any photos of the Argyle Colliery at South Fork? Pat McK.: Do you have a val map of this area that might shed light on this? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Keith Burkey" Subject: RE: [PRR] Who Wants MG in N Scale? Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 18:21:41 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <1d2.19b26cbd.2d602fc9@aol.com> Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Sign me up for an MG. What were WYE's dimensions compared to Alto's? I've heard they were almost identical, but have no photographic proof to speak of. If Wye and Alto are similar, I'll take an Alto as well (maybe two!). Keithy ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 18:43:02 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] SO, Summerhill Branch, Argyle Colliery Jerry, >From 1951 track chart of the Summerhill branch. tipple __________ /___________\ ___ /____________\ /____\ _____ /_____________\ W --/----------------/-------------/------------------------\----------------------------------- SO \______ Total length of branch 1.99 miles Rich Orr -------------------------------1077147782 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Jerry,
 
From 1951 track chart of the Summerhill branch.
 
             &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;            = ;      tipple
             &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;            = ;   __________
             &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;            = ; /___________\
          ___   =             &nbs= p;        /____________\
        /____\    &nb= sp;   _____     /_____________\  &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;            = ;       W
     --/----------------/-------------/------------= ------------\-----------------------------------
SO           &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;            = ;             \_= _____
 
Total length of branch 1.99 miles
 
Rich Orr
-------------------------------1077147782-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 19:08:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE: [PRR] Who Wants MG in N Scale? MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Keith and list... There is a photo of WYE tower in Triumph 1 on page 51. Also, I belive WYE tower was on the cover of The Keystone magazine some years back. Hope this helps. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] 44 Tonner photo Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 20:52:43 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, Does anyone have a good end or sharp 3/4 shot of a 44 Tonner? I am looking for where the lettering is on the ends. Please reply to billlane@comcast.net as I don't receive email from some of my groups. Thank You, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Subject: Re: :[PRR] N6b Trucks. Now Cabin Trucks. Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 19:42:18 -0600 Hi Y'all Of all the photos I've seen, I began to realize one thing above all. A lot of proto cabin trucks are combo leaf and coil spring. A lot are = only leaf spring. The coil only is a minority. This is for all railroads. Including our beloved PRR. And includes N5 = and N6. I am not really familiar with N8. I model before that time. = LOL Now for modeling, how do we do that? Are there any model trucks (HO is = my scale) with both leaf and coil springs? Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist, Proud SPF PRRTHS #1204 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bruce Smith=20 To: Douglas Day=20 Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, 18 February, 2004 12:53 PM Subject: :[PRR] N6b Trucks. On Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at 07:54 PM, Douglas Day wrote: I have a couple of built N6b cabins and I know the trucks on them = are not correct. Would the Bowser single coil spring trucks work? =20 Yes, you can also use Precision Scale #32228=20 Did they use leaf springs? I would like to correct them with the = right trucks as there is one Quality Craft one there yet to build. Yes, both leaf and coil springs can be seen in photos. Happy Rails Bruce --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.585 / Virus Database: 370 - Release Date: 02/11/2004 ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C3F657.518EB340 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Y'all
 
Of all the photos I've seen, I = began to=20 realize one thing above all.
 
A lot of proto cabin trucks are combo leaf = and coil=20 spring.  A lot are only leaf spring.  The coil only is a=20 minority.
 
This is for all railroads.  Including = our beloved=20 PRR.  And includes N5 and N6.  I am not really familiar with = N8. =20 I model before that time.  LOL
 
Now for modeling, how do we do that?  = Are there=20 any model trucks (HO is my scale) with both leaf and coil = springs?
 
Morgan Bilbo
Ferroequinologist, Proud = SPF
PRRTHS=20 #1204
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bruce=20 Smith
Sent: Wednesday, 18 February, = 2004 12:53=20 PM
Subject: :[PRR] N6b = Trucks.

On Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at 07:54 PM, Douglas Day = wrote:

I have a couple of = built=20 N6b cabins and I know the trucks on them are not correct.  = Would the=20 Bowser single coil spring trucks work? =20

Yes, you can also use = Precision=20 Scale #32228

Did they use leaf=20 springs?  I would like to correct them with the right trucks as = there=20 is one Quality Craft one there yet to=20 build.

Yes, both leaf and coil springs can be seen in = photos.

Happy=20 Rails
Bruce
 

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by = AVG=20 anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: = 6.0.585=20 / Virus Database: 370 - Release Date:=20 02/11/2004
------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C3F657.518EB340-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: [PRR] 44 tonner photo's Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 21:06:28 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bill the 3 photo's in "Pennsy Diesels 1924-1968 " show no lettering on the ends other than the region and engine house assignments on the pilot. Note some (not sure if all) had black and white stripped pilots for a time. Mid 1960's shots in the book are no stripped, a 1957 shot is striped. Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Re: [PRR] 44 tonner photo's Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 21:27:52 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: OOPS after sending the first email, I looked into some other sources. Page 92 of "Black Gold Black Diamonds" shows GS4 9312, 3 months after delivery and it has a roadnumber on the right top of the end next to the headlight. Also see pages 26, 27 of PDY Vol 2. the 3 pictures show numbers I guess the engines in the Pennsy Diesels book were dirty. Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian J Carlson" To: Cc: "PRR Talk" Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 9:06 PM Subject: [PRR] 44 tonner photo's > Bill the 3 photo's in "Pennsy Diesels 1924-1968 " show no lettering on the > ends other than the region and engine house assignments on the pilot. Note > some (not sure if all) had black and white stripped pilots for a time. Mid > 1960's shots in the book are no stripped, a 1957 shot is striped. > > Brian J Carlson > Cheektowaga NY > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 20:52:43 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] 44 Tonner photo Hi All, Does anyone have a good end or sharp 3/4 shot of a 44 Tonner? I am looking for where the lettering is on the ends. Please reply to billlane@comcast.net as I don't receive email from some of my groups. Thank You, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jconsoli" Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 21:47:35 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] 44 Tonner photo Bill, There was also the unit's road number just to the right (when facing the end) of the headlight. Jack Consoli ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Lane To: PRR Talk ; PRR Modeling ; PRR Fax Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 8:52 PM Subject: [PRR] 44 Tonner photo > Hi All, > > Does anyone have a good end or sharp 3/4 shot of a 44 Tonner? I am looking > for where the lettering is on the ends. Please reply to billlane@comcast.net > as I don't receive email from some of my groups. > > Thank You, > Bill Lane > > http://www.lanestrains.com > http://www.pennsysmodels.com > Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] 44 Tonner photo Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 21:47:35 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p5 (Debian) at paonline.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bill, There was also the unit's road number just to the right (when facing the end) of the headlight. Jack Consoli ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Lane To: PRR Talk ; PRR Modeling ; PRR Fax Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 8:52 PM Subject: [PRR] 44 Tonner photo > Hi All, > > Does anyone have a good end or sharp 3/4 shot of a 44 Tonner? I am looking > for where the lettering is on the ends. Please reply to billlane@comcast.net > as I don't receive email from some of my groups. > > Thank You, > Bill Lane > > http://www.lanestrains.com > http://www.pennsysmodels.com > Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: Re: :[PRR] N6b Trucks. Now Cabin Trucks. Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 21:48:14 -0600 Morgan Bilbo asked: Now for modeling, how do we do that? Are there any model trucks (HO is = my scale) with both leaf and coil springs? You call yourself an SPF? Bowser puts Class 2D-F12 coil-elliptic spring = trucks in every X31 subclass, X32,and X33 subclass round roof boxcar kit = (Bowser No. 74190, $2.75/pr). Additionally, Tichy No. 3049 ($2.95/pr) = is a coil-elliptic spring truck. Ben Hom ------=_NextPart_000_0234_01C3F668.E8FC8200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Morgan Bilbo asked:
Now for modeling, how do we do that?  Are there any model = trucks (HO=20 is my scale) with both leaf and coil springs?
 
You call yourself an SPF?  Bowser puts Class = 2D-F12 coil-elliptic=20 spring trucks in every X31 subclass, X32,and X33 subclass round roof = boxcar kit=20 (Bowser No. 74190, $2.75/pr).  Additionally, Tichy No. 3049=20 ($2.95/pr) is a coil-elliptic spring truck.
 
 
Ben Hom 
------=_NextPart_000_0234_01C3F668.E8FC8200-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Fred123R@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:00:50 EST Subject: [PRR] Williamsport Just read that the City of Williamsport announced that they have $5.75 million allocated in public and private funds to build the Peter Herdic Transportation Museum, which I believe is to be located in the former PRR-REA building which is still standing behind the former Park Home and next to where the passenger station was. Hopefully they will have some good historical info on the Pennsy and the other railroads that served the town. No word on timing of construction, but it must be soon if the money has been allocated. Fred Ross fred123r@aol.com -------------------------------1077163250 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Just read that the City of W= illiamsport announced that they have $5.75 million allocated in public and p= rivate funds to build the Peter Herdic Transportation Museum, which I believ= e is to be located in the former PRR-REA building which is still standing be= hind the former Park Home and next to where the passenger station was. = Hopefully they will have some good historical info on the Pennsy and the ot= her railroads that served the town.  No word on timing of construction,= but it must be soon if the money has been allocated.
 
Fred Ross
fred123r@aol.com
-------------------------------1077163250-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John and Peg" Subject: RE: [PRR] SO, Summerhill Branch, Argyle Colliery Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:15:42 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <62B267D3-6251-11D8-BAF3-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry and List, Sorry no pictures. I don't recall who sent me this link (it may have been someone on this list) but, site has historical USGS Maps for some states (includes most or all of Pennsylvania). They are scanned jpeg s (I think) with various dates (most from 1900-1950's, it seems to me). Rail lines are shown much better than present day USGS Maps. They seem to show spurs, sidings and number of tracks more accurately (Probably because instead trying tell a logging or forestry road from a rail road using an aerial photo, surveyor walked down the tracks and drew them). At least they have corroborated Employee Time Tables and CT1000C s in the few cases I've studied. Also they were mapped prior to most strip mining operations which destroy evidence of the original contours, structures and RoW. Here are two links, the first what I believe to be your area of interest and second is the "home page" for what I have found be a valuable resource. http://historical.maptech.com/getImage.asp?fname=john07se.jpg&state=PA http://historical.maptech.com/ I have not had the opportunity to view valuation maps or Sanborn Maps, does anyone have an opinion on how they compare and are they available online? John Dolensky, PRRT&HS #7102, Akron -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Jerry Britton Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 3:31 PM To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: [PRR] SO, Summerhill Branch, Argyle Colliery Follow up to my SO posts from a few days ago... At SO interlocking (South Fork) the west connector of the South Fork Branch connected to the main line onto track 1. At the same location, connecting from the north side onto track 4, was the west connector of the Summerhill Branch. The 1945 CT1000C shows the "Argyle Colliery" located just 1/10 mile east of this connection on the Summerhill Branch. "Triumph I" has a 1995 aerial photo of the area. SO is just out of the photo, but you can clearly see the RoW of the Summerhill Branch. At what I am guessing would be about 1/10 mile from the interlocking is what appears to be a former RoW that would be a trailing point switch (switchback). I'm thinking this was probably the Argyle Colliery. The entire hillside is razed in the photo, so you really can't tell. Anyone know? Was the Argyle Colliery west of its connection to the Summerhill Branch, placing it essentially "above" SO interlocking on the hill? Both the "Travelling the Pennsylvania Railroad" book on the Rau photos (1890's) and Doug Nelson's recent book on the Hastings photos have photos looking southeast from just above the Summerhill Branch. I am guessing that these photos were likely taken from the property of the Argyle Colliery, if it was indeed where I think it was. (Get all that?) And now I am really reaching: Anyone know of any photos of the Argyle Colliery at South Fork? Pat McK.: Do you have a val map of this area that might shed light on this? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Introducing the SD-35's! Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:32:59 -0500 PRR-Listers: Warsaw Tower (KS) on the Ft. Wayne line witnessed the arrival of this = new engine class. On March 2, eastbound train GRE-2 was headed by 6003, = an SD-35. The very next day, train GRE-2 was led by another SD-35, 6001. = Given that these engines were the first of the order and they were built = in February in the LaGrange, Ill plant, it is very possible that this = engines were on their maiden trips. Other miscellaneous notes. Train NW-88 showed up on the Ft. Wayne 4 = times in March. This is unusual since this train is a Panhandle train = and usually gets to Chicago via Columbus, Bradford, and Logansport. Another Baldwin Centipede "ghost" showed up pulling 22, the Manhattan = Limited on March 22. The engine number was 5817 and it was clearly = written down on the CT-355A (unlike the first "sighting" of 5824 where = one character was not clearly legible). But CALM down everyone. All = Baldwin Centipedes were retired from the roster in 1962 (weren't they?). = Lastly, I think that the engine in question is 5870, and E-7. Tower = operators would report train symbols and engine number to the downstream = towers via radio. Saying 5870 like "fifty-eight, seventy" sounds very = similar to "fifty-eight, seventeen." But then again, maybe they didn't retire the Centipedes. Or maybe the = tower operators were seeing apparitions of railroad past. I guess they = don't call it "Mad Madness" for nothing! Stay tuned for more updates from KS Tower in Warsaw! Ted Andrews ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C3F677.8B606F80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
PRR-Listers:
 
Warsaw Tower (KS) on the Ft. Wayne line witnessed the arrival of = this new=20 engine class. On March 2, eastbound train GRE-2 was headed by 6003, an = SD-35.=20 The very next day, train GRE-2 was led by another SD-35, 6001. Given = that these=20 engines were the first of the order and they were built in = February in the=20 LaGrange, Ill plant, it is very possible that this engines were on their = maiden=20 trips.
 
Other miscellaneous notes. Train NW-88 showed up on the Ft. Wayne 4 = times=20 in March. This is unusual since this train is a Panhandle train and = usually gets=20 to Chicago via Columbus, Bradford, and Logansport.
 
Another Baldwin Centipede "ghost" showed up pulling 22, the = Manhattan=20 Limited on March 22. The engine number was 5817 and it was clearly = written down=20 on the CT-355A (unlike the first "sighting" of 5824 where one character = was not=20 clearly legible). But CALM down everyone. All Baldwin Centipedes were = retired=20 from the roster in 1962 (weren't they?). Lastly, I think that the engine = in=20 question is 5870, and E-7. Tower operators would report train symbols = and engine=20 number to the downstream towers via radio. Saying 5870 like = "fifty-eight,=20 seventy" sounds very similar to "fifty-eight, seventeen."
 
But then again, maybe they didn't retire the Centipedes. Or maybe = the tower=20 operators were seeing apparitions of railroad past. I guess they don't = call it=20 "Mad Madness" for nothing!
 
Stay tuned for more updates from KS Tower in Warsaw!
 
Ted Andrews
------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C3F677.8B606F80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:40:32 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: RE: [PRR] SO, Summerhill Branch, Argyle Colliery Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 22:50:23 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: :[PRR] N6b Trucks. Now Cabin Trucks. From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Morgan says: > Of all the photos I've seen, I began to realize one thing above all. > > A lot of proto cabin trucks are combo leaf and coil spring. A lot are only leaf spring. The coil only is a minority. > > This is for all railroads. Including our beloved PRR. And includes N5 and N6. I am not really familiar with N8. I model before that time. LOL Morgan, Huh? I did a quick survey of Cabin Car photos in the PRR Color Guide series 1-3. By far the most common truck is the 2A-F5 with the single spring. The truck was originally introduced during N5B production, fitted to the N5c and retrofitted to many N5 and N6B cabins. The next most common truck is the 2A-F4 (labeled 2A-F2 in one caption) with a single elliptical spring. The only photos of cabins with mutiple spring packages were of N8s, and those had 2 springs visible (4 spring package probably). Not one photograph showed a combination elliptical coil spring truck under a cabin car, adn I cannot ever recall having seen such a photo. Not that it didn't happen, but if it did, it was extremely rare, not common. My previous comment was meant to indicate that both types of spring occured, but not in the SAME truck. > Now for modeling, how do we do that? Are there any model trucks (HO is my scale) with both leaf and coil springs? Bowser, as noted, however the coil and leaf are reversed (Bowser strikes yet again!). Happy Rails Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 20:58:01 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: RE: [PRR] SO, Summerhill Branch, Argyle Colliery, antique maps Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 06:30:48 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Columbia PA loco service facilities From: "Frederic H. Abendschein" Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:06:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] SO, Summerhill Branch, Argyle Colliery From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Wednesday, February 18, 2004, at 11:15 PM, John and Peg wrote: > Here are two links, the first what I believe to be your area of =20 > interest and > second is the "home page" for what I have found be a valuable = resource. > > http://historical.maptech.com/getImage.asp?fname=3Djohn07se.jpg&state=3D= PA John: This shows EXACTLY what I was looking for. It was a switchback! On Wednesday, February 18, 2004, at 06:43 PM, SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote: > =46rom 1951 track chart of the Summerhill branch. > =A0 > =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 tipple > =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 __________ > =A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 /___________\ > =A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0___=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 /____________\ > =A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0 /____\=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 _____=A0=A0=A0=A0 =20 > /_____________\=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 W > =A0=A0=A0 =20 > =A0--/----------------/-------------/------------------------=20 > \----------------------------------- > SO=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= \______ > =A0 > Rich: The tipple you are showing at center is to far east of SO and is =20= undoubtedly one of the "other" coal mine on the branch. Per the 1945 =20 CT1000C, in distances from Altoona, on the Summerhill Branch there was: MP 26.2 East Connection to Main Line MP 27.5 Penna. Colls. Nos. 9 & 10 (Penna. C. & C. Corp.) MP 28.1 Priscilla Coll. No. 1 (Hand Coal Co.) MP 28.3 Argyle Coll. No. 4 (Argyle Coal Co.) MP 38.4 West Connection to Main Line The aforementioned map shows what I believe to be the leads to both the =20= Argyle and Priscilla collieries. Thanks, all! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:33:25 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] SO, Summerhill Branch, Argyle Colliery From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 08:06 AM, Jerry Britton wrote: > Rich: The tipple you are showing at center is to far east of SO and is > undoubtedly one of the "other" coal mine on the branch. Per the 1945 > CT1000C, in distances from Altoona, on the Summerhill Branch there > was: > > MP 26.2 East Connection to Main Line > MP 27.5 Penna. Colls. Nos. 9 & 10 (Penna. C. & C. Corp.) > MP 28.1 Priscilla Coll. No. 1 (Hand Coal Co.) > MP 28.3 Argyle Coll. No. 4 (Argyle Coal Co.) > MP 38.4 West Connection to Main Line Sorry, that last entry should have read "MP 28.4". ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 09:17:32 -0500 From: Bob Colquitt Subject: [PRR] Altoona museum news: PRR-Talk - 01/16/04 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Subject: Re: [PRR] Altoona museum news From: Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 17:31:48 EST In a message dated 1/14/04 9:20:42 PM, wb3iqe@rocketmail.com writes: << An item on WTAJ's web site at: says museum is seeking funds from county's hotel tax & museum recently defaulted on 227 kilobuck loan. ************************ Museum's IRS form 990 shows for Fiscal Year Ending 2001, Revenue of $1,391,367, Expenses of $1,707,798, Assets $14,901,303, & Liabilities of $296,653. is press release dated May, 2003 indicates McNit was still Executive Director. Executive Director Cessna apparently took over some time in mid-2003. loan to RI bank was short $36,000 payment. was collateralized w/ gallery in which Lau (sp?) photos are stored/displayed. seems like lot of revenue (in 2001) to default on just 36K. Anyone in area might want to drop in on Museum's principal business off, during normal business hours, & ask to see most recent IRS form 990. Museum is obliged to show you record on request, & provide copy (at reasonable per page charge) upon request. FY 2003 is almost certainly not available but FY 2002 should be. I, for one, would certainly like to see what been spending all revenue on. is unlikely any foundation would provide grant w/o being sure that the new cash was being used for a core Museum purpose. If Mr. Cessna monitors this list, perhaps he'd like to post revenue & spending details for FY 2003. Some members may be able to suggest foundations are especially interested in preserving spirit of American RRing. Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Michael E Allen Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:21:40 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR Frieght Car and Locomotive Blue Prints on E-Bay Noticed these earlier this morning http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2225774519&category=14 45 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2224883038&category=13 0 Mike Allen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:21:40 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PRR Frieght Car and Locomotive Blue Prints on E-Bay X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-4,6-8 From: Michael E Allen Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Noticed these earlier this morning http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2225774519&category=14 45 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2224883038&category=13 0 Mike Allen ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:57:56 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Frieght Car and Locomotive Blue Prints on E-Bay X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-8 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: aurora7@juno.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Noticed also a Pennsy Decapod b\p, from loco #4503. Price? Currently $611, with 9 hours to go. Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "There are no stupid questions, but there are many inquisitive idiots." ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 11:03:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Branchline P Cars MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Lists, Anyone here purchasing Branchline Coaches or the soon to be released Pullmans may want to inspect the boxes prior to buying them if possible. A buddy of mine bought the 3 pack P&LE Coaches. After nearing completeion of 1 car, he went to grab the trucks to start building them. The truck bag only had 3 sideframes and also included 2 freight car trucks with 33" wheel sets. No 36" wheelsets were present. So he looked into the unbuilt kits and the same was true with one of those lacking the correct parts too. Only one kit had the correct amount of parts for the Passenger Trucks and the appropriate 36" wheels. Is this a rare happening? Anyone else having trouble with quality control issues with this company too?.....Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Earl Myers" Subject: [PRR] passenger station "shed" roofs drawing Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 11:37:16 -0500 Gents; Does anybody know where to get a drawing or general dimensions of the = Pennsy pax station shed like roofs, the real long flat roofed structure = on the concrete platform between the tracks??=20 These are the ones that have the curved, eve like diagonal braces and = are riveted together then flat roofed (no peak nor swale pitch). I have = a picture or two but don't want to guess as to the heights/widths. Earl Myers Lines West ------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C3F6DC.B9D52EE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Gents;
 Does anybody know where to get a = drawing or=20 general dimensions of the Pennsy pax station shed like roofs, the real = long flat=20 roofed structure on the concrete platform between the tracks?? =
 These are the ones that have the = curved, eve=20 like diagonal braces and are riveted together then flat roofed (no peak = nor=20 swale pitch). I have a picture or two but don't want to guess as to the=20 heights/widths.
Earl Myers
Lines West
------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C3F6DC.B9D52EE0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Earl Myers" Subject: [PRR] Fw: passenger station "shed" roofs drawing Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 11:40:44 -0500 Gents; Does anybody know where to get a drawing or general dimensions of the = Pennsy pax station shed like roofs, the real long flat roofed structure = on the concrete platform between the tracks??=20 These are the ones that have the curved, eve like diagonal braces and = are riveted together then flat roofed (no peak nor swale pitch). I have = a picture or two but don't want to guess as to the heights/widths. Earl Myers Lines West ------=_NextPart_000_0072_01C3F6DD.356DA7D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
 

Gents;
 Does anybody know where to get a = drawing or=20 general dimensions of the Pennsy pax station shed like roofs, the real = long flat=20 roofed structure on the concrete platform between the tracks?? =
 These are the ones that have the = curved, eve=20 like diagonal braces and are riveted together then flat roofed (no peak = nor=20 swale pitch). I have a picture or two but don't want to guess as to the=20 heights/widths.
Earl Myers
Lines West
------=_NextPart_000_0072_01C3F6DD.356DA7D0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:38:56 -0800 (PST) From: Frank Smith Subject: [PRR] E6 Atlantic 4-4-2 question From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] E6 Atlantic 4-4-2 question Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:14:54 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Frank, According to the roster in Ziel & Foster's "Steel Rails to the Sunrise", none of the E6's leased to the LIRR ever bore LIRR numbers or lettering. By the mid-1920's, the only former PRR power in LIRR markings were the H6's and H10's - the G5's were built directly for LIRR and were never PRR power. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Smith" To: Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:38 AM Subject: [PRR] E6 Atlantic 4-4-2 question > Hello, > > I have a question concerning the E6 Atlantics that > served on the Long Island Railroad. Did any of them > get painted in Long Island livery, or were they always > lettered Pennsy? > > Thanks for any help, > > Frank > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:45:55 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] E6 Atlantic 4-4-2 question X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-8,10-11,14-21 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: aurora7@juno.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: All Pennsy locomotives leased to the LIRR remained in Pennsy lettering and paint, with the exception to K4 Pacifics, which wore the LIRR pre-war graphite smokebox with black smokebox door. Occassionally, Pennsy locomotives would tow a LIRR tender, as was the case with G5 5741, now preserved at Strasburg. Incidentally, K4 3750, E6 460, and G5 5741, all served on the LIRR for extended periods. E6 198 spent a very long time on the Island, and K4 5406 spent almost all but her last 6 years on the Island. LIRR leased Pennsy H-9's, L-1's, B-6's, besides those classes mentioned above. To be highly accurate, keep your Pennsy engines in Pennsy colors and lettering. D-16's H-10's, H-6's, and G-5's all were owned by the LIRR and were lettered as such. Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "There are no stupid questions, but there are many inquisitive idiots." ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Subject: Re: :[PRR] N6b Trucks. Now Cabin Trucks. Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:40:38 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Feb 2004 18:43:43.0175 (UTC) FILETIME=[4C87CD70:01C3F718] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Y'all My apology. And especially Ben. That's what I like about this group. No matter how stupid I may feel after receiving your replies, it's the best darn way to get the correct information. (Ben - maybe I should be a "Stupid Pennsy Fan") Now that the 2AF5 and 2AF4 and 2AF2 have been brought up. Are they available? If Bowser's truck has the springs reversed, then why do we bring them up? We should ignore them. Let's try to be accurate, even if those of us who have some wrong info have to apologize. I have seen many retractions/corrections in the messages. Finally, am I correct in that many PRR cabins (N5 & N6) had coil springs in one truck and leaf in the other? Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist, Proud SPF -- Must be carefull here! PRRTHS #1204 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.585 / Virus Database: 370 - Release Date: 02/11/2004 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:24:20 -0600 Subject: Re: :[PRR] N6b Trucks. Now Cabin Trucks. From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 12:40 PM, PennsyNut wrote: > Now that the 2AF5 and 2AF4 and 2AF2 have been brought up. Are they > available? Morgan, These were the trucks I mentioned in my first post... Bowser makes a single coil spring truck (2A-F5) that it sells with the N5 series of cabins (part #74013). These trucks are accurate. The coil leaf combo trucks from Bowser are the ones that are backassward. I think that the caboose truck could be modified easily to represent the 2A-F4 by removing the spring and adding styrene for the spring leaves. The Precision Scale 2A-F5 is a "sprung" truck, but could also be modified in this way...maybe I'll give it a shot . > > Finally, am I correct in that many PRR cabins (N5 & N6) had coil > springs in > one truck and leaf in the other? I didn't see that in the photos I reviewed, but it might happen...probably more later than earlier. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: :[PRR] N6b Trucks. Now Cabin Trucks. Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 15:15:15 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <37C77A9A-6311-11D8-9475-000A958DAD46@mail.auburn.edu> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: For some more info on the classes of trucks used under cabin cars, see http://prr.railfan.net/freight/PRRFreightCarTrucks.html There are a few truck classification lists which show which classes each truck class was used on... Here's a summary of the cabin car info from C422800-D dated 3/10/1947... Class spring car class 2A-F1 - E - arch bar - NDA, N4, N5 2A-F2 - E - cast steel - NDA, N5 2A-F3 - C&E - cast steel - N5, N5a, N5d 2A-F4 - C&E - cast steel - N5, N5b 2A-F5 - C&E - cast steel - N5b, N5c, N6b, NDA 2B1F2 - E - arch bar - N6a, N6b E=elliptic spring, C&E=coil-elliptic spring (non harmonic) I'm a bit confused here, I thought that coil-elliptic springs were the ones with a coil and leaf spring next to each other but the 2A-F5's look to only have a large coil spring. What's the deal? Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Bruce > Smith > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 2:24 PM > To: PennsyNut > Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: :[PRR] N6b Trucks. Now Cabin Trucks. > > > On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 12:40 PM, PennsyNut wrote: > > Now that the 2AF5 and 2AF4 and 2AF2 have been brought up. Are they > > available? > > Morgan, > > These were the trucks I mentioned in my first post... Bowser makes a > single coil spring truck (2A-F5) that it sells with the N5 series of > cabins (part #74013). These trucks are accurate. The coil leaf combo > trucks from Bowser are the ones that are backassward. I think that the > caboose truck could be modified easily to represent the 2A-F4 by > removing the spring and adding styrene for the spring leaves. The > Precision Scale 2A-F5 is a "sprung" truck, but could also be modified > in this way...maybe I'll give it a shot . > > > > > > Finally, am I correct in that many PRR cabins (N5 & N6) had coil > > springs in > > one truck and leaf in the other? > > I didn't see that in the photos I reviewed, but it might > happen...probably more later than earlier. > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin > Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:30:46 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Daniels Subject: [PRR] Cabin Car Photos? Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 15:45:00 -0500 Subject: [PRR] H&BTM Aerial Tramway From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <7C87EEC1-631C-11D8-A385-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hmm, here's an interesting one... One of the responses on my SO query included a link to historical USGS maps. I was perusing the 1933 series that covers the Huntingdon & Broad Top Mountain RR (which interchanged with PRR at both ends -- there's your PRR content!) and noted that there was an "aerial tramway" from Saxton up over the mountain to Hickory Hill. Anyone know what this was? I figure it wasn't a tourist thing. Perhaps for works to the mines? The railroad did connect the two, but the route was a bit long. Also noted some neat switchbacks on the branch out of Hopewell. Would make a great modeling subject. Too bad the real line closed in 1954. I've composited all the quad maps for the H&BTM into one file. It's 15 MB's in JPEF format. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin Car Photos? Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 15:48:08 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-MDRemoteIP: 192.0.1.150 X-Return-Path: geshick@velocity.net X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Here's one (if you don't mind ugly blue paint): http://crcaboose.railfan.net/ Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Daniels" To: Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 3:30 PM Subject: [PRR] Cabin Car Photos? > An open question to the list... > > Does anyone know of a decent source for photos of > cabin cars? It seems that there is a real shortage of > photographic information on these cars out there...or > am I just looking for photos in all the wrong > places??? (sounds like a country music title... ;P) > > ===== > Bill Daniels > Las Vegas, NV > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:06:09 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin Car Photos? > From: "Bill Daniels" > Subject: [PRR] Cabin Car Photos? Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 15:34:00 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin Car Photos? From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 03:06 PM, Bill Daniels wrote: > What I'm looking for are some PRR inservice photos. > Any more out there hiding in plain sight? Bill, Each of the PRR Color Guides (1-3) has a section on cabin cars that is chock full of color photos and then to top it off, there are several more photos in each MOW section. On top of that there is the Keystone Cabin Car issue (ancient) and additional photos and drawings in many issues of the Keystone (like the complete N5 underbody diagrams with the REA N5 article). Finally, most of the photo dealers have at least a few PRR cabins in their collections (ie Bob's Photos, John LaRue etc...) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 17:24:07 -0500 From: Bob Colquitt Subject: [PRR] Sorry for my errant Altoona post... I'm gettin' old / am Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: All, Please accept my apology for my errant post about the Altoona Museum. I've been reducing my email digest stash down from 130 megs - a lot of email about machine tools AND Railroads! My Yahoo email addy has a safety valve before I post and I got mentally lazy... The museum has a lot more problems than just this missed payment - look at the NMRA situation & you can see if you look hard at the financials - the NMRA is technically bankrupt and living day-to-day.... -=- Bob Colquitt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin Car Photos? Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 17:22:03 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Don't forget "Cabin Cars of the Pennsylvania & Long Island Railroad" published by NJ International, oodles and oodles of Cabin car pics. Sorry Bill I only have one copy of this book. Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 17:28:43 -0500 From: "J T Roberts" Subject: Re: [PRR] Branchline P Cars From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 17:47:02 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: SO, Summerhill Branch, Argyle Colliery Jerry, I can try to get to them and take a look at "SO" and the west end of the Summerhill Br. As I recall there was an area off the Main Br. that continued westward as the main swung slightly southward to meet No. 4 main on its north side. There was a large coal and boney pile in that area and some kind of wooden and metal remnants that may have been a coal loading facilitiy. Whether it was for railroad use or Argyle Coal to load cars I can not say. As for the coal loading station at "SO",the picture on the bottom of pg 205 shows some kind of facility that mentions this. The empties at the bottom of the photo seem like they should be on the mentioned Steinman sdg or on the lead to the Frt house. The Psgr cars seem like they should be on the Mainline with the coaling station overhead. I have this picture and the person who I got it from said this was Mineral Point tower. I begged to differ with him as the railroad is closer to river level here and at Mineral Point the railroad sits a bit higher above river level. His contention was that in the 1880s the railroad sat different than we know it today so I left well enough alone. The tower is on the south side of the tracks as "SO" still is today. Now there are coaling facilities at E. Conemaugh at this time as there is a large engine facility there and it got wiped out in the 1889 flood? Was this facility at South Fork an additional main coaling facility until the flood? Picture says about the mid 1880's and the picture is not clear enough to for me to determine if there is flood damage behind the tower. The South Fork Br. has not been built yet as it went up through breast of the dam some time in the mid 1890's or so. Pat --part1_149.222e9230.2d6696e6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Jerry,
          I can try to get to t= hem and take a look at "SO" and the west end of the Summerhill Br. As I reca= ll there was an area off the Main Br. that continued westward as the main sw= ung slightly southward to meet No. 4 main on its north side. There was a lar= ge coal and boney pile in that area and some kind of wooden and metal remnan= ts that may have been a coal loading facilitiy. Whether it was for railroad=20= use or Argyle Coal to load cars I can not say.
   As for the coal loading station at "SO",the picture on the bott= om of pg 205 shows some kind of facility that mentions this. The empties at=20= the bottom of the photo seem like they should be on the mentioned Steinman s= dg or on the lead to the Frt house. The Psgr cars seem like they should be o= n the Mainline with the coaling station overhead. I have this picture and th= e person who I got it from said this was Mineral Point tower. I begged to di= ffer with him as the railroad is closer to river level here and at Mineral P= oint the railroad sits a bit higher above river level. His contention was th= at in the 1880s the railroad sat different than we know it today so I left w= ell enough alone. The tower is on the south side of the tracks as "SO" still= is today.
   Now there are coaling facilities at E. Conemaugh at this time a= s there is a large engine facility there and it got wiped out in the 1889 fl= ood? Was this facility at South Fork an additional main coaling facility unt= il the flood? Picture says about the mid 1880's and the picture is not clear= enough to for me to determine if there is flood damage behind the tower. Th= e South Fork Br. has not been built yet as it went up through breast of the=20= dam some time in the mid 1890's or so.
  

Pat --part1_149.222e9230.2d6696e6_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kevin Lehman" Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin Car Photos? Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:55:32 -0500 have you tried = http://lib2.clarkstate.edu/Caboose/default.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20 Please visit my homepages =20 The Del-Mar-Va Model Railroad Club Website=20 http://community.webtv.net/PCRR4LIFE/TheDelMarVaModel=20 Kevin S Lehman`s Train & Railroad Equipment Pictures=20 http://community.webtv.net/KEVINLEHMAN/KevinSLehmansTrain/=20 Owner of Railfanning_Delmarva Yahoo Group=20 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Railfanning_Delmarva ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C3F72A.B71EEC10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
 
 
 
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Please visit my homepages  
 

The Del-Mar-Va Model Railroad Club Website
http://com= munity.webtv.net/PCRR4LIFE/TheDelMarVaModel=20
 
Kevin S Lehman`s Train & Railroad Equipment Pictures
http:= //community.webtv.net/KEVINLEHMAN/KevinSLehmansTrain/=20
 
Owner of Railfanning_Delmarva Yahoo Group
http://groups= yahoo.com/group/Railfanning_Delmarva
 
------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C3F72A.B71EEC10-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Keith Burkey" Subject: RE: [PRR] H&BTM Aerial Tramway Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:04:34 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <7C87EEC1-631C-11D8-A385-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: This was the Penn Central Power and Light aerial tramway from the Hickory Hill mine down to their power plant at Saxton. Their plant was located near where Penelec built their Saxton reactor, and was serviced by the H&BTM. I've never seen the reason for building such a long tramway, but certainly the all-rail routing of the Shoups Run and Hickory Hill branch wasn't one of the easiest out there. It's also possible that the H&BT wasn't charging the cheapest of rates. Once came across a mid-1930s Penn Central Power annual report that made mention of the tramway and showed the Saxton facility. These are the only shots I've seen of the tram. Not sure what's left up on the mountains, but the concrete coal silo still remains up top of Hickory Hill. Keith > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Jerry > Britton > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 3:45 PM > To: PRR-Talk LIST > Subject: [PRR] H&BTM Aerial Tramway > > > Hmm, here's an interesting one... > > One of the responses on my SO query included a link to historical USGS > maps. I was perusing the 1933 series that covers the Huntingdon & Broad > Top Mountain RR (which interchanged with PRR at both ends -- there's > your PRR content!) and noted that there was an "aerial tramway" from > Saxton up over the mountain to Hickory Hill. > > Anyone know what this was? I figure it wasn't a tourist thing. Perhaps > for works to the mines? > > The railroad did connect the two, but the route was a bit long. > > Also noted some neat switchbacks on the branch out of Hopewell. Would > make a great modeling subject. Too bad the real line closed in 1954. > > I've composited all the quad maps for the H&BTM into one file. It's 15 > MB's in JPEF format. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:34:24 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Was: H&BTM Aerial Tramway Now: H&BTM trivia From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: [PRR] Re: HO Scale Coil-Elliptic Trucks (was Cabin Trucks) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 07:48:28 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bruce Smith wrote: The coil leaf combo trucks from Bowser are the ones that are backassward. Morgan Bilbo added: If Bowser's truck has the springs reversed, then why do we bring them up? We should ignore them. Let's try to be accurate, even if those of us who have some wrong info have to apologize. I have seen many retractions/corrections in the messages. THE BOWSER COIL LEAF TRUCKS ARE CORRECT. Almost all 1930s builders photos from the Hagley Collection showing cars equipped with these trucks have the leaf spring to the left, which matches the Bowser truck. However, some trucks DID have the leaf spring to the right, so check your photos. Don't dismiss the Bowser truck out of hand. I recommend you check your research - what did you base your call on? Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 07:54:01 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: Was: H&BTM Aerial Tramway Now: H&BTM trivia From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 09:34 PM, robert netzlof wrote: > The H&BTM not only interchanged with PRR at both ends and with no one > else, but: > > 1) For a time it was the only connection between the Bedford Division > and the rest of the PRR True. And one web site I found indicated that the Pennsy tried to buy it out and the H&BTM refused. The Pennsy then built the Bedford Branch and bypassed the H&BTM...sealing its fate. > > 2) It is shown in its entirety in the 1900 CT1000, probably due to 1) > above. Ah, answers my next question...where can I get a list of mines, etc., on the line. I think one of the above is online...maybe even on my own site! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 08:05:55 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: [PRR] T1s on the N&W llist Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I thought you would enjoy this! Jim McDaniel, secret N&W lurker in Delmarva ...and I quote---> Since there has been considerable discussion of the T-1's, I'll chime in with a tale told to me by our old Assistant Superintendent at the time I was transferred to Enola as Night Trainmaster (1981.) It seems that T-1s didn't often operate east of Altoona. One day a T-1 showed up in Harrisburg (late 1940s or early 1950s) and there was no train for it to take back to Altoona. Following Comp'ny protocol that "Engines don't run light," someone in management made the decision to couple the T-1 onto a track of empty hoppers at Harrisburg and send her home. Well, the T-1 couldn't start the 50 hoppers hoppers in the track, so an H-class Consolidation was coupled onto the rear to get the train started out of the yard. A few minutes later, the operator at Rockville Tower reported the train "by" to the train dispatcher, and remarked that the engineer on the "pusher" was waiving his arms and frantically blowing his whistle. By the time the train dispatcher figured out what was going on, the train had already rocketed past Banks Tower at a high rate of speed, and the Middle Division train dispatcher had to be contacted to stop the train at the first tower on his territory (View Tower, at Duncannon, Pa.) Seems that, once the T-1 got the cut of hoppers moving, the little Consolidation at the rear couldn't even shove in the slack so the brakeman could cut away. Oh, mercy... ! -- abram burnett ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 08:24:59 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] T1s on the N&W llist From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, February 20, 2004, at 08:05 AM, James L. McDaniel wrote: > Jim McDaniel, secret N&W lurker in Delmarva > ...and I quote---> > > Since there has been considerable discussion of the T-1's, I'll chime > in with a tale told to me by our old Assistant Superintendent at the > time I was transferred to Enola as Night Trainmaster (1981.) I really have to question this "account"... > > It seems that T-1s didn't often operate east of Altoona. One day a > T-1 showed up in Harrisburg (late 1940s or early 1950s) and there was > no train for it to take back to Altoona. Following Comp'ny protocol > that "Engines don't run light," someone in management made the > decision to couple the T-1 onto a track of empty hoppers at Harrisburg > and send her home. T1's ran from Harrisburg all the time. There are countless photos of them at Harrisburg passenger station and at the Harrisburg locomotive facility. The turntable there was specifically designed to handle them...132'. Not sure why a T1 would have ever entered Enola to begin with. What did it run east into Enola? These were passenger locos. All requisite servicing facilities were across the river at Harrisburg. > > Well, the T-1 couldn't start the 50 hoppers hoppers in the track, so > an H-class Consolidation was coupled onto the rear to get the train > started out of the yard. A few minutes later, the operator at > Rockville Tower reported the train "by" to the train dispatcher, and > remarked that the engineer on the "pusher" was waiving his arms and > frantically blowing his whistle. By the time the train dispatcher > figured out what was going on, the train had already rocketed past > Banks Tower at a high rate of speed, and the Middle Division train > dispatcher had to be contacted to stop the train at the first tower on > his territory (View Tower, at Duncannon, Pa.) Next issue is that a freight train headed west out of Enola would never pass the Rockville tower, which is on the Harrisburg side of the river. First tower out of Enola would be Banks, then View. > > Seems that, once the T-1 got the cut of hoppers moving, the little > Consolidation at the rear couldn't even shove in the slack so the > brakeman could cut away. Oh, mercy... ! The story may be rooted in fact, but some of the key terms and references seem to have changed along the way. Just an opinion...I wasn't there. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 08:38:19 -0500 Subject: [PRR] CT1000 from 1900 From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <0B2F0702-63AA-11D8-A0AD-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In a response on my H&BTM inquiry, it was mentioned that a list of their stations and sidings was included in the 1900 edition of the CT1000. I thought there was a PDF online somewhere, but a check of the usual suspects hasn't revealed it thus far. Anyone know of one online anywhere? I did check the 1923 edition and the H&BTM is not included. Thanks! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 07:46:31 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] T1s on the N&W llist From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, February 20, 2004, at 07:24 AM, Jerry Britton wrote: > Not sure why a T1 would have ever entered Enola to begin with. What > did it run east into Enola? These were passenger locos. All requisite > servicing facilities were across the river at Harrisburg. >> >> Well, the T-1 couldn't start the 50 hoppers hoppers in the track, so >> an H-class Consolidation was coupled onto the rear to get the train >> started out of the yard. A few minutes later, the operator at >> Rockville Tower reported the train "by" to the train dispatcher, and >> remarked that the engineer on the "pusher" was waiving his arms and >> frantically blowing his whistle. By the time the train dispatcher >> figured out what was going on, the train had already rocketed past >> Banks Tower at a high rate of speed, and the Middle Division train >> dispatcher had to be contacted to stop the train at the first tower >> on his territory (View Tower, at Duncannon, Pa.) > > Next issue is that a freight train headed west out of Enola would > never pass the Rockville tower, which is on the Harrisburg side of the > river. First tower out of Enola would be Banks, then View. Jerry, It doesn't actually say that the T1 went to Enola... The story says "Harrisburg" and since hopper trains were sometimes routed via Harrisburg on the main rather than Enola via the A&S, it is at least possible that that a T1 would be turned, pick up empties in Harrisburg (dropped by electrics that would have returned to Enola via LEMO) and left passing Rockville... Of course, I agree that the justification for the whole story is completely implausible. A T1 in Harrisburg shouldn't have been a "surprise" to anyone, and it would have simply gone out on the next mail/express train. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 08:11:58 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: HO Scale Coil-Elliptic Trucks (was Cabin Trucks) From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, February 20, 2004, at 07:48 AM, Benjamin Frank Hom wrote: >> Bruce Smith wrote: >> The coil leaf combo trucks from Bowser are the ones that are >> backassward. >> > THE BOWSER COIL LEAF TRUCKS ARE CORRECT. Almost all 1930s builders > photos > from the Hagley Collection showing cars equipped with these trucks > have the > leaf spring to the left, which matches the Bowser truck. However, some > trucks DID have the leaf spring to the right, so check your photos. > Don't > dismiss the Bowser truck out of hand. I recommend you check your > research - > what did you base your call on? Ben, My research is, as usual, impeccable...my memory however is quite another question ! I quite distinctly remember the rub on the Bowser 2D-F12 trucks when they were released as being backwards. I wanted to use them under the Westerfield Camp Car set and every photo I checked against the trucks I had (color guides 1-3, photos of camp cars, photos of boxcars in service) showed that the spring groups were reversed. I rechecked this just a few months back, when I was trying to decide what to do with a bin full of "spare" trucks. In looking just now, I see that you are correct and that the X32 builders photos on-line all show the spring groups as you indicate. I am left with several possibilities... 1) I screwed up (wouldn't be the first, nor the last time) 2) The spring groups swapped sides at some point 3) Bowser changed its tooling Since #1 and #3 are inconceivable, I'm voting for #2 for now ;^) but I'll check this weekend and get back to y'all... BTW, I noticed that the X31F cars are listed as having 2D-F13 trucks (National B1). Guess I need to start swapping out the Bowsers for some Life Like trucks!! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 06:31:35 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Re: Was: H&BTM Aerial Tramway Now: H&BTM trivia Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:34:28 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: CT1000 from 1900 From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, February 20, 2004, at 08:38 AM, Jerry Britton wrote: > In a response on my H&BTM inquiry, it was mentioned that a list of > their stations and sidings was included in the 1900 edition of the > CT1000. > > I thought there was a PDF online somewhere, but a check of the usual > suspects hasn't revealed it thus far. Anyone know of one online > anywhere? How do you know when your web site is too big? Found it! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:34:57 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: Was: H&BTM Aerial Tramway Now: H&BTM trivia From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, February 20, 2004, at 09:31 AM, robert netzlof wrote: > > Yep. > >> maybe even on my own site! > > Maybe. > > Ask me how I know. Damned, I'm freakin' blind! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: HO Scale Coil-Elliptic Trucks (was Cabin Trucks) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:14:42 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: You could also get the old CapeLine version from Bethlehem Car Works. Very pricey at $9.75, but already include metal wheels,are exceptionally free rolling and good tracking, and give you weight down low. Needless to say, I didn't pay that much for mine many years ago :-). Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Smith" > > BTW, I noticed that the X31F cars are listed as having 2D-F13 trucks > (National B1). Guess I need to start swapping out the Bowsers for some > Life Like trucks!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: HO Scale Coil-Elliptic Trucks Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 15:46:41 +0000 From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: HO Scale Coil-Elliptic Trucks (was Cabin Trucks) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 15:54:54 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 Subject: RE: [PRR] Cabin Car Photos? Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:08:56 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] Cabin Car Photos? Thread-Index: AcP3MWwhA9lY3+RNTK2SW3WMVP2+8QAmkscw From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: "Bruce Smith" , "Bill Daniels" Cc: "Jerry Shickler" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Feb 2004 16:08:56.0774 (UTC) FILETIME=[D7D13660:01C3F7CB] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Some years ago, NJ International published a soft cover book on cabins, and most, of the pictures in the book were in color. -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Smith [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu] Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 3:34 PM To: Bill Daniels Cc: Jerry Shickler; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin Car Photos? On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 03:06 PM, Bill Daniels wrote: > What I'm looking for are some PRR inservice photos. > Any more out there hiding in plain sight? Bill, Each of the PRR Color Guides (1-3) has a section on cabin cars that is=20 chock full of color photos and then to top it off, there are several=20 more photos in each MOW section. On top of that there is the Keystone=20 Cabin Car issue (ancient) and additional photos and drawings in many=20 issues of the Keystone (like the complete N5 underbody diagrams with=20 the REA N5 article). Finally, most of the photo dealers have at least=20 a few PRR cabins in their collections (ie Bob's Photos, John LaRue=20 etc...) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin=20 Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 08:16:31 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] T1s on the N&W llist Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:25:49 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] T1s on the N&W llist From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, February 20, 2004, at 11:16 AM, Bill Daniels wrote: > There might be a perfectly reasonable explanation for > this...in 1956 the PRR leased some Reading 4-8-4's to > make up for a power shortfall, and some of these > operated out of Enola. Of course Reading's class for > these locomotives was T-1... > > This could well have caused some accidental (or > knowing railroaders like I do, deliberate) > confusion... Agreed! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 Subject: RE: [PRR] T1s on the N&W llist Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:36:27 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] T1s on the N&W llist Thread-Index: AcP3zrf9vpC1MKPhTKKAGEaTNOOBtAACRyzg From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: "Bill Daniels" , "PRR Talk" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Feb 2004 17:36:30.0357 (UTC) FILETIME=[13325C50:01C3F7D8] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I believe in the very lengthy preface of the Don Ball book on the Pennsy, there is a story of an unsuccessful attempt by the PRR to interest the N&W in purchasing/leasing some of the T1s. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Daniels [mailto:billinsf@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 10:17 AM To: PRR Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] T1s on the N&W llist Ya know list, There might be a perfectly reasonable explanation for this...in 1956 the PRR leased some Reading 4-8-4's to make up for a power shortfall, and some of these operated out of Enola. Of course Reading's class for these locomotives was T-1... This could well have caused some accidental (or knowing railroaders like I do, deliberate) confusion... Bill Daniels --- Bruce Smith wrote: >=20 > On Friday, February 20, 2004, at 07:24 AM, Jerry > Britton wrote: > > Not sure why a T1 would have ever entered Enola to > begin with. What=20 > > did it run east into Enola? These were passenger > locos. All requisite=20 > > servicing facilities were across the river at > Harrisburg. > >> > >> Well, the T-1 couldn't start the 50 hoppers > hoppers in the track, so=20 > >> an H-class Consolidation was coupled onto the > rear to get the train=20 > >> started out of the yard. A few minutes later, > the operator at=20 > >> Rockville Tower reported the train "by" to the > train dispatcher, and=20 > >> remarked that the engineer on the "pusher" was > waiving his arms and=20 > >> frantically blowing his whistle. By the time the > train dispatcher=20 > >> figured out what was going on, the train had > already rocketed past=20 > >> Banks Tower at a high rate of speed, and the > Middle Division train=20 > >> dispatcher had to be contacted to stop the train > at the first tower=20 > >> on his territory (View Tower, at Duncannon, Pa.) > > > > Next issue is that a freight train headed west out > of Enola would=20 > > never pass the Rockville tower, which is on the > Harrisburg side of the=20 > > river. First tower out of Enola would be Banks, > then View. >=20 > Jerry, >=20 > It doesn't actually say that the T1 went to Enola... > The story says=20 > "Harrisburg" and since hopper trains were sometimes > routed via=20 > Harrisburg on the main rather than Enola via the > A&S, it is at least=20 > possible that that a T1 would be turned, pick up > empties in Harrisburg=20 > (dropped by electrics that would have returned to > Enola via LEMO) and=20 > left passing Rockville... >=20 > Of course, I agree that the justification for the > whole story is=20 > completely implausible. A T1 in Harrisburg > shouldn't have been a=20 > "surprise" to anyone, and it would have simply gone > out on the next=20 > mail/express train. >=20 > Happy Rails > Bruce >=20 > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ >=20 > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be > happy" - Benjamin=20 > Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ =20 > ________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ > __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | > ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > =20 > |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 =20 > 0-0-0 >=20 >=20 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: HO Scale Coil-Elliptic Trucks (was Cabin Trucks) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:51:23 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: ----- Original Message ----- From: > Now where the BCW/Cape Line/Red Ball trucks come in handy for the Pennsy modeler is for the gon classes that had them - for empty open cars where weight is hard to conceal, these trucks help out a lot. True, a little pricey for a boxcar. Mine were purchased for a G29 gon. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: Re: Re: [PRR] T1s on the N&W llist Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 14:02:32 -0500 Message-Id: <20040220190232.GAQN6255.de-fe02.dejazzd.com@de-fe02> Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: A Reading T-1 would have pulled 50 empty hoppers without a problem. Jeff > > From: Jerry Britton > Date: 2004/02/20 Fri AM 11:25:49 EST > To: Bill Daniels > CC: PRR Talk > Subject: Re: [PRR] T1s on the N&W llist > > On Friday, February 20, 2004, at 11:16 AM, Bill Daniels wrote: > > > There might be a perfectly reasonable explanation for > > this...in 1956 the PRR leased some Reading 4-8-4's to > > make up for a power shortfall, and some of these > > operated out of Enola. Of course Reading's class for > > these locomotives was T-1... > > > > This could well have caused some accidental (or > > knowing railroaders like I do, deliberate) > > confusion... > > Agreed! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: HO Scale trucks (was cabin and coil elliptic) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 17:53:36 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: What trucks should I have put under my ECW G26 gons. Years ago I stuck Accurail Bettendorf on them since I didn't know better, would like to swap them out now. Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Zoeller" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: HO Scale Coil-Elliptic Trucks (was Cabin Trucks) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > Now where the BCW/Cape Line/Red Ball trucks come in handy for the Pennsy > modeler is for the gon classes that had them - for empty open cars where > weight is hard to conceal, these trucks help out a lot. > > True, a little pricey for a boxcar. Mine were purchased for a G29 gon. > > Bob Zoeller > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harry Fitch" Subject: [PRR] RDG T-1 blame? Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 18:38:47 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Return-Path: prrk4s@msn.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Feb 2004 23:38:47.0876 (UTC) FILETIME=[AFC48840:01C3F80A] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: It would have to have been some strange circumstances happening to blame a Reading Company T-1 for not being able to start a train consist of 50 hoppers and needing a class H push out of Enola. During the 1956 lease of 2100's by the Pennsy they regularly handled trains in and out of Enola. Photos/movies exist to prove they were capable of loading the entire Rockville bridge full of the PRR's customer merchandise without a pusher. The RDG T-1 was also equipped with a booster truck to aid in starting a train. Harry Fitch prrk4s@msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 15:55:50 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Regulating Railroad Innovation From: Greg Ritacco Message-Id: <4FD94658-6400-11D8-A47B-000A959FDA52@surewest.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK2 0.31-3 ip=216.93.197.156 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, I recently finished "Regulating Railroad Innovation" by Steve Usselman. The book covers the period between 1840 and 1920. Although a book on railroading in general, it is of interest to Pennsy fans because there is in fact a lot of PRR content. This is due to the fact that Pennsy records are well organized at the Hagley, and we can thank Chris Baer for that. Most of the RR books I've read recite a chronology of events relating to the subject railroad. Steve's book goes way beyond that by actually offering up reasons for the railroads doing what they did. And it frames the railroads' behavior within the context of American history. If you are interested in why the PRR did what it did, and from a perspective other than the Pennsy's, then this is your book. There is easily enough information here to cause discussion (and controversy) for months to come. Greg. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: [PRR] Complete index of Keystones Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 19:59:15 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: IS there a complete index of the Keystone online someplace? Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: [PRR] Keystone index Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 20:09:00 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Never mind found the one on Jerry Site. Another case of engaging email before engaging mouse. Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: HO Scale trucks (was cabin and coil elliptic) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 23:22:01 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Brian Carlson asked: What trucks should I have put under my ECW G26 gons. Years ago I stuck Accurail Bettendorf on them since I didn't know better, would like to swap them out now. Here are the trucks documented for Class G26: 2E-F4 http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=2E-F4-E69425.gif&sel=f tk&sz=sm&fr= 2E-F6 http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=2E-F6-E94261.gif&sel=f tk&sz=sm&fr= 2E-F7 (National B-1) http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=2E-F7-E93453.gif&sel=f tk&sz=sm&fr= The Bethlehem Car Works (ex-Cape Line, ex-Red Ball) National B-1 will do for the 2E-F7 truck and has the added benefit of adding weight to the car. The 2E-F4 and 2E-F6 trucks are a little tougher, as accurate model 70-ton trucks are tougher to come by. You can use the Train-Miniature/Walthers "Bettendorf" truck as a stand-in for 2E-F4 as it has the "heavier" appearance of a 70-ton truck, and has a droop sideframe, though not exactly the same as the Pennsy sideframes. It also lacks the three coil spring arrangement. I bought some model trucks with the three coil spring arrangement similar to the 2E-F6 at M.B. Klein last weekend, but they were close-outs from somebody's parts bin with no manufacturer indicated. When all else fails, take a copy of the truck photo or diagram to the hobby shop and compare model trucks to it. I keep a copy of the model truck mug shots from the November 93, December 93, and January 94 issues of Mainline Modeler handy to compare to prototype photos. You often have to look past what's printed on the package to find out what a truck really is. Get a copy of Railroad Prototype Cyclopedia #4 as well for Richard Hendrickson's truck ID article. Save the Accurail trucks - they represent a very common freight car truck and are very useful for other model freight cars. While you're at it, if you haven't lowered your ECW G26, now is the time to do it. It does wonders for the model's appearance. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] M-1's and Trun Trains???? Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:25:19 -0500 PRR -Gize: I was messing around my layout last night. Just for fun, I removed my = F-7 A-B-A set off the point of my 1955 TT-2 (essentially made up of = Walthers 75' F-39 flar cars) and put on a BLI M-1b instead. It was an = interesting site to witness. It got me to thinking, however. The = inaugural Truc Train service has in 1955. The prime freight engines of = the day were F-units and Geeps. I doubt if a Truc Train was ever pulled = by an M-1 in 1955-57 (even in a pinch).=20 But what about LCL trains? In later years, LCL trains did have = piggybacks in their consists. Was that possibly true in the mid-50's? = Would it be possible to see a M-1 pulling a LCL train (circa 1955-6) = with piggybacks in the consists? While it may not have been the norm, it = may be hard to say that it never happened. Ted Andrews ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C3F86D.630806E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
PRR -Gize:
 
I was messing around my layout last night. Just for fun, I removed = my F-7=20 A-B-A set off the point of my 1955 TT-2 (essentially made up of Walthers = 75'=20 F-39 flar cars) and put on a BLI M-1b instead. It was an = interesting site=20 to witness. It got me to thinking, however. The inaugural Truc Train = service has=20 in 1955. The prime freight engines of the day were F-units and Geeps. I = doubt if=20 a Truc Train was ever pulled by an M-1 in 1955-57 (even in a pinch). =
 
But what about LCL trains? In later years, LCL trains did have = piggybacks=20 in their consists. Was that possibly true in the mid-50's? Would it be = possible=20 to see a M-1 pulling a LCL train (circa 1955-6) = with piggybacks in the=20 consists? While it may not have been the norm, it may be hard to = say that=20 it never happened.
 
Ted Andrews
 
------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C3F86D.630806E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:26:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1's and Trun Trains???? MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Ted, A bunch of us were looking at some dispatch and tower sheets last night from 1950 to the merger. LCL trains of the late 50s always had Geeps or F-units. I found BANKS tower sheet from 1956 and it still had quite a few M class locomotives. Also found a surprise entry. Locomotive 1000 on the sheet. At first we couldn't figure out what this was. The train was No. 17. It took us a while then but we relized it was the Areotrain. On the Middle Division dispatch sheet, the dispatcher wrote in "Tin Toy Train" next to his entry. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 13:24:16 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1's and Trun Trains???? X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-15 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: aurora7@juno.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Okay, here's a switch for tried and true Pennsy fans! Speaking of M1's pulling more modern freights, Pennsy pulled one or two M1's off the deadlines for emergency power in the last year or two of steam operations. There is a picture, perhaps even in a Stauffer book, of a thoroughly beaten up M1, rusty smokebox door, where the keystone number plate had been removed, lugging some horredously long freight. There weren't enough Diesels, or the Diesels were just not up to the task, and a reliable locomotive was fired up for the occassion. Not that's a model I'd love to see on somebodies layout. Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "There are no stupid questions, but there are many inquisitive idiots." ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "L. Heintz" Subject: [PRR] Lock Haven Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 13:30:58 -0500 What were the large industries served by the Bald Eagle branch prior to = 1950, on the south side of Lock Haven ?? ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C3F87E.F0A1A900 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
What were the large industries served = by the Bald=20 Eagle branch prior to 1950, on the south side of Lock Haven=20 ??
------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C3F87E.F0A1A900-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "L. Heintz" Subject: [PRR] Lock Haven area. Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 13:40:10 -0500 In 1973 I was in this area following the line to Emporium and found a = r-o-w from which the track had been recently removed. This was closer to = McElhatten. Was this the old NYC line ?? Did PC remove it over from = there to Mill Hall ??=20 ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C3F880.3AB2BB00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
In 1973 I was in this area following = the line to=20 Emporium and found a r-o-w from which the track had = been recently=20 removed. This was closer to McElhatten. Was this the old NYC line = ??  Did=20 PC remove it over from there to Mill Hall = ?? 
------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C3F880.3AB2BB00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 14:34:36 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Lock Haven area. Iheintz2, This could have been the former Beech Creek RR( PRR ties at one time). Pat McKinney --part1_8b.405c8dc.2d690ccc_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Iheintz2,
             Thi= s could have been the former Beech Creek RR( PRR ties at one time).

Pat McKinney --part1_8b.405c8dc.2d690ccc_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 14:12:59 -0600 Subject: [PRR] PRR Talk- off subject-Funero and Camerlengo kits X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: beth capl caples Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I am interested in their HOn30 narrow gauge switcher kit. Cannot locate it at Walther's web page. Does F&C have their own web page? Is there any hobby shops out there that stock this item? Thanks for any advice, John Caples ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Talk- off subject - Funaro and Camerlengo kits Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 20:40:15 +0000 From: "J. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] Z74 business cars Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 16:24:52 -0500 MessageDoes anyone know what type of 4 wheel truck would have been used = on the Z74 business cars? Is there an HO scale truck available? Jeff ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bill Volkmer=20 To: 'J. Smith' ; 'prr-talk'=20 Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 8:29 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] Z74 business cars All business cars in the fleet during my watch (1958-68) had four = wheel trucks. I seem to remember the 7504 had the most trouble with = being a rough rider and they tried several variations of shock absorbers = and snubbers. 7507 was either Quaker City or William Penn. I think = 7504 was Wm. Penn so 07 would have been Quaker City. 7504 was usually = used by Greenough and 120 was Jim Symes. 90, the Delaware was Bevan's = car. The only other car in service was 7510 the Pittsburgher which was = Mort Smith's car and was based in Pittsburgh. -----Original Message----- From: J. Smith [mailto:stacktalk@dejazzd.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 5:11 PM To: prr-talk Subject: [PRR] Z74 business cars I am interested in knowing if all of the Z74 business cars had their = 6 wheel trucks replaced with 4 wheel trucks. Assuming that they all had = 6 wheel trucks to begin with. Would there have been any other = modifications done to these cars other than trucks?=20 I am particularly interested in car #7507 which was named Maryland. = My plan is to convert my Bachmann prewar car into a c1950 version. Thanks, Jeff Smith ------=_NextPart_000_00E7_01C3F897.3BAC3EC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Message
Does anyone know what type of 4 wheel = truck would=20 have been used on the Z74 business cars?  Is there an HO scale = truck=20 available?
 
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bill Volkmer
To: 'J. Smith' ; 'prr-talk'
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 = 8:29=20 AM
Subject: RE: [PRR] Z74 business = cars

All=20 business cars in the fleet during my watch (1958-68) had four wheel=20 trucks.  I seem to remember the 7504 had the most trouble with = being a=20 rough rider and they tried several variations of shock absorbers and=20 snubbers.   7507 was either Quaker City or William = Penn. =20 I think 7504 was Wm. Penn so 07 would have been Quaker City.  = 7504 was=20 usually used by Greenough and 120 was Jim Symes.  90, the = Delaware was=20 Bevan's car.  The only other car in service was 7510 the = Pittsburgher=20 which was Mort Smith's car and was based in=20 Pittsburgh.
-----Original Message-----
From: J. = Smith=20 [mailto:stacktalk@dejazzd.com]
Sent: Thursday, February = 05, 2004=20 5:11 PM
To: prr-talk
Subject: [PRR] Z74 business = cars

I am interested in knowing if all = of the Z74=20 business cars had their 6 wheel trucks replaced with 4 wheel = trucks. =20 Assuming that they all had 6 wheel trucks to begin with.   = Would=20 there have been any other modifications done to these cars other = than=20 trucks?
 
I am particularly interested in car = #7507 which=20 was named Maryland.  My plan is to convert my Bachmann prewar = car into=20 a c1950 version.
 
 
Thanks,
 
Jeff=20 Smith
------=_NextPart_000_00E7_01C3F897.3BAC3EC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:42:25 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Z74 business cars Jeff, The PRR used a 2F-P1 2 axle truck. 6-1/2"x 12" roller bearing,11"x10" brk. cyl., Truck arrgt. A-444531. Should be a commomwealth design although my note book does not say this. Pat McKinney --part1_1db.1aa366da.2d6938d1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Jeff,
        The PRR used a 2F-P1 2 axle truck= . 6-1/2"x 12" roller bearing,11"x10" brk. cyl.,
Truck arrgt. A-444531. Should be a commomwealth design although my note book= does not say this.

Pat McKinney --part1_1db.1aa366da.2d6938d1_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "George Rudy" Subject: [PRR] PA Maps Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 21:27:20 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner-VirusCheck: Found to be clean Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hey all, I just came across this site that has old maps of Pa. towns etc. thought it might be of use. http://www.oldmapsetc.com/old-maps-pennsylvania-towns.html George New Bloomfield, Pa. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Marker lights Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 23:11:23 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, I know there is a significance in the colors of marker light lenses. I am about to finish a M1 that is not modernized. I have in the past put red lenses parallel to the rails, and amber side to side. Is this the most common? I am not really interested in first section and second section etc use. I just need what would have been used most of the time in the most common applications. I also doubt that the lens colors were changed with any frequency even if the assignment and purpose of the locomotive changed. And now a quick diesel question. Was the letter "F" for front white or dulux on the diesels? Thank You, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Marker lights Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 23:28:25 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 In-Reply-To: Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bill, In the later years the markers were one red and one amber, then even later just one red. On the locomotive, the front marker lights are on the pilot beam not on the boiler. The class lights (2 white and 2 green) were on the boiler and depending on the year that you're modeling may or may not have been there. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 23:11:23 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Marker lights Hi All, I know there is a significance in the colors of marker light lenses. I am about to finish a M1 that is not modernized. I have in the past put red lenses parallel to the rails, and amber side to side. Is this the most common? I am not really interested in first section and second section etc use. I just need what would have been used most of the time in the most common applications. I also doubt that the lens colors were changed with any frequency even if the assignment and purpose of the locomotive changed. And now a quick diesel question. Was the letter "F" for front white or dulux on the diesels? Thank You, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 00:00:04 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Marker lights billlane@comcast.net writes: > And now a quick diesel question. Was the letter "F" for front white or > Dulux on the diesels? > Thank You, > Bill Lane Bill, per you diesel question... The "F" signifying the front was neither white nor Dulux it was BUFF PRR SHADE. Greg Martin --part1_156.2e4d6e9a.2d699154_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" billlane@comcast.net=20= writes:


And now a quick diesel question= . Was the letter "F" for front white or Dulux on the diesels?
Thank You,
Bill Lane


Bill,

per you diesel question... The "F" signifying the front was neither white no= r Dulux it was BUFF PRR SHADE.

Greg Martin --part1_156.2e4d6e9a.2d699154_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 23:28:25 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] RE: [PRR] Marker lights Bill, In the later years the markers were one red and one amber, then even later just one red. On the locomotive, the front marker lights are on the pilot beam not on the boiler. The class lights (2 white and 2 green) were on the boiler and depending on the year that you're modeling may or may not have been there. Al ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Earl Myers" Subject: [PRR] yard floodlights Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 01:21:24 -0500 Gents; Anyone have pictures or dimensions of the floodlight towers used in PRR = yards pre 1945??? Earl Myers ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C3F8E2.2FB89870 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Gents;
 Anyone have pictures or = dimensions of the=20 floodlight towers used in PRR yards pre 1945???
Earl Myers
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C3F8E2.2FB89870-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harry Fitch" Subject: [PRR] M1 without number plate Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 05:38:13 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Return-Path: prrk4s@msn.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Feb 2004 10:38:21.0322 (UTC) FILETIME=[FDCAEEA0:01C3F92F] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: M1 without number plate If I remember correctly in the same photograph that Ted Andrews spoke about, someone had unceremoniously scribbled the road number on the smokebox door on this poor class M with white paint. It made the locomotive look like it was minutes away from a date with the oxyacetylene torch when a reprieve came saving it's life for another run. Harry Fitch prrk4s@msn.com On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 Ted Andrews wrote Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1's and Trun Trains???? From: Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 13:24:16 EST Okay, here's a switch for tried and true Pennsy fans! Speaking of M1's pulling more modern freights, Pennsy pulled one or two M1's off the deadlines for emergency power in the last year or two of steam operations. There is a picture, perhaps even in a Stauffer book, of a thoroughly beaten up M1, rusty smokebox door, where the keystone number plate had been removed, lugging some horredously long freight. There weren't enough Diesels, or the Diesels were just not up to the task, and a reliable locomotive was fired up for the occassion. Not that's a model I'd love to see on somebodies layout. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 13:37:19 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: M1 without number plate X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 11,13-19 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: aurora7@juno.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Considering the mourning we all seem to express with regard to PRR steam losses, a little research seems to show that crews and maintainence people were not all of that opinion. I known of a picture of an I1sa, with "JUNK-The Standard" chalked on her cylinder jacket. I wonder if anyone suggested, or dared to attempt, to save or secrete any PRR steam for preservation or utilization in snow-melter service? Did any crews express dislike of the newly arrived Diesels in comparision to steam? And why, in God's name, did the railroad scrap that last little B6sb, #5244, when it finished service after the close of steam? I would have thought that it would have been offered to some museum in some location, somewhere! It was a tiny locomotive, and the railroad never would have even missed it's scrap value. Similarly, did anyone even review the possibility of saving a J, a T, or a Q? Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "There are no stupid questions, but there are many inquisitive idiots." ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred in Vt." Subject: [PRR] pullmans Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:58:34 -0500 List, some time back a member was kind enough to send me a website url = to look up some info on pullmans. As happens in my age group, what I = wrote down is not what was sent. If any one has the link to the site = with the complete pullman listing, would you please forward, on , off = the list. Thanks guys--------FredinVt ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3F954.57D8C920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
List,
      some = time back a=20 member was kind enough to send me a website url to look up some info on=20 pullmans. As happens in my age group, what I wrote down is not what was = sent. If=20 any one has the link to the site with the complete pullman listing, = would you=20 please forward, on , off the list.       = Thanks=20 guys--------FredinVt
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3F954.57D8C920-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] pullmans Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:51:37 -0600 Hi Fred--Try http://www.pullmanproject.com/ Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Fred in Vt.=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 1:58 PM Subject: [PRR] pullmans List, some time back a member was kind enough to send me a website url = to look up some info on pullmans. As happens in my age group, what I = wrote down is not what was sent. If any one has the link to the site = with the complete pullman listing, would you please forward, on , off = the list. Thanks guys--------FredinVt ------=_NextPart_000_048E_01C3F953.5F941D50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Fred--Try http://www.pullmanproject.com/
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Fred in = Vt.=20
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 = 1:58=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] pullmans

List,
      some = time back a=20 member was kind enough to send me a website url to look up some info = on=20 pullmans. As happens in my age group, what I wrote down is not what = was sent.=20 If any one has the link to the site with the complete pullman listing, = would=20 you please forward, on , off the = list.      =20 Thanks guys--------FredinVt
------=_NextPart_000_048E_01C3F953.5F941D50-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:52:01 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Columbia PA loco service facilities From: "Frederic H. Abendschein" Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 08:21:44 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Complete index of Keystones From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, February 20, 2004, at 07:59 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote: > IS there a complete index of the Keystone online someplace? Keystone Crossings, at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/library/ All articles in all issues are included, plus some additional comments. However, the index contains the names of the articles, which aren't always an indicator of the true content. I am in the process of going back and adding commentary. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 08:30:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1's and Trun Trains???? From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Saturday, February 21, 2004, at 11:25 AM, Ted Andrews wrote: > But what about LCL trains? In later years, LCL trains did have=20 > piggybacks in their consists. Was that possibly true in the mid-50's?=20= > Would it be possible to see a M-1 pulling a LCL train=A0(circa 1955-6)=20= > with=A0piggybacks in the consists? While it may not have been the=20 > norm,=A0it may be hard to say that it=A0never happened. When Pennsy's new TOFC service was introduced in June 1954, it ran on=20 the LCL symbol trains. The TT trains were not yet created. Nor was the=20= name "TrucTrain", which was made official in November-December of 1954=20= after an employee contest was held to name the new service. LCL-2's makeup was as follows, as it entered Enola, per the December=20 1954 "Schedule of Arranged Freight Service": Block 1: Jersey City trailers (from Chicago, East St. Louis and=20 Pittsburgh). Block 2: Newark trailers (from Chicago, East St. Louis and Pittsburgh). Block 3: Philadelphia trailers (from Chicago, East St. Louis and=20 Pittsburgh). Block 4: Philadelphia (other than trailers). Block 5: Waverly-Newark (other than trailers), including LCL=20 Merchandise and Forwarder Cars for on and via NYNH&H RR and LI RR. Block 6: Harsimus Cove (other than trailers). Block 7: Harrisburg, Pa., proper. This makes a great opportunity to mix TOFC trailers with "Merchandise=20 Service" box cars! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 08:50:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Button-copy block station signs/Mount Dallas From: Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Does anyone know the timeframe in which the PRR installed block station signs with reflective button-copy lettering? I'm particularly interested in the one which used to stand at Mount Dallas, at the H&BTM/Everett interchange ("DALLAS"). It appears to have a white border with a black background. Is this correct? Would anyone happen to have pictures of this sign or the Mt. Dallas yard area? Thanks, Keith ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 08:15:15 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Columbia PA loco service facilities From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Fred, WOW! You sure can learn a lot from a photo! On Sunday, February 22, 2004, at 05:52 PM, Frederic H. Abendschein wrote: > Bruce et al, > > I'm sending Bruce two jpeg files: > > 1. An annotated scan of a copy I have of the Cola Yard 1952-56 map on > page > 294 of Triumph II. My copy is better than what is printed (probably > because > of the halftone), but Ted Xaras' original may well be the best. As > best as > I can read the map SEEMS to name a "coal wharf" railroad west of the > substation. This is a great map, which is the one I was using when I asked the questions...BTW, there is another track labeled "COAL" behind the engine service facility, and that seems to be pretty clearly a coal dump trestle, not for engine fueling purposes. > 2. A annotated blowup of the "coal wharf" area of the photo I mentioned > earlier that shows a steam engine near the "coal wharf," two P5as, the > substation, and catenary. > > The position the map indicates and what the photo shows for the "coal > wharf" > agree well. I'm still in shock...This photo answers a question that I have had for a long long time!! The "coal wharf" on the map is clearly the object in the photo...it is not a "wharf" as I would normal think of one, but a small open top wood coaling tower. As noted it is right next to the sub station. The tower appears to be square, or nearly so, 15-20' on a side. The supports are a network of pilings and cross members. The "bin" is clearly wood, with the floor angled front to back, and a simple coaling chute on the track side, with a set of "idler wheels" cantilevered out above it to hold the cables to raise and lower it. It is difficult to see any mechanism to lift coal to the top, except that there appears to be the boom of a crane behind the coal wharf just about where "coal pit" appears on the map. The track served by the coal wharf is the yard run around (the old Columbia Branch main, I think) that runs around the north side of North Yard. The steamer parked under it appears to be an H class, perhaps the yard switcher or power for a local. I can't for the life of me see the P5As... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] M1 without number plate Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 08:43:56 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] M1 without number plate Thread-Index: AcP5MIeohLTTR/xcTsWd20aOxdtHHQA6su4g From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: "Harry Fitch" , "PRR-Talk" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Feb 2004 14:43:56.0638 (UTC) FILETIME=[772377E0:01C3FA1B] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The photo is in one of Don Ball's book, either the one on the Pennsy, or = in one of his two "America's Colorful Railroads". -----Original Message----- From: Harry Fitch [mailto:prrk4s@msn.com] Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 4:38 AM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] M1 without number plate M1 without number plate If I remember correctly in the same photograph that Ted Andrews spoke = about, someone had unceremoniously scribbled the road number on the smokebox = door on this poor class M with white paint. It made the locomotive look like = it was minutes away from a date with the oxyacetylene torch when a reprieve came saving it's life for another run. Harry Fitch prrk4s@msn.com On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 Ted Andrews wrote Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1's and Trun Trains???? From: Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 13:24:16 EST Okay, here's a switch for tried and true Pennsy fans! Speaking of M1's pulling more modern freights, Pennsy pulled one or two M1's off the deadlines for emergency power in the last year or two of steam operations. There is a picture, perhaps even in a Stauffer book, of a thoroughly beaten up M1, rusty smokebox door, where the keystone number plate had been removed, lugging some horredously long freight. There weren't enough Diesels, or the Diesels were just not up to the task, and a reliable locomotive was fired up for the occassion. Not that's a = model I'd love to see on somebodies layout. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 10:09:43 -0500 From: Drew McGhee Subject: Re: [PRR] Lock Haven Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 07:33:38 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Daniels Subject: RE: [PRR] Marker lights Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 07:36:21 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Daniels Subject: RE: [PRR] Marker lights Subject: [PRR] Transportation to/from the PRRT&HS hotel and airport. Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:50:40 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Transportation to/from the PRRT&HS hotel and airport. Thread-Index: AcP6JMnSQv7Se16wTYyvvwpGL3sbrQ== From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Feb 2004 15:50:41.0284 (UTC) FILETIME=[CA17F440:01C3FA24] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Has anybody investigated how to go from either aiport to the hotel which = is hosting the PRRT&HS convention? At least for the Cincinnati airport, = there is not complementary shuttle service. Marv Cadwell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Subject: Re: [PRR] Marker lights Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:56:27 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Feb 2004 15:57:55.0621 (UTC) FILETIME=[CCFA8550:01C3FA25] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Gize May I make a request? When making generalizations about these changes. Can you give picture references of what you are talking about - for some of the people on this list may not be as "knowledgeable" as you. (This is not necessarily "just" for me, although I might like to see some of these light placements too). It gets confusing following these messages when they simply state [The early "modern" markers (on the smokebox) had both red and amber capabilities (and were oblong in shape) while the later ones were limited to a red indication, and they were cylindical in shape (of course not all locomotives were changed over...many kept the older "claw" markers on the pilot beam)] Picture references would help. As in Show and Tell. Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist, Proud SPF PRRTHS #1204 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Daniels" To: "Al Buchan" ; "'Bill Lane'" ; "'PRR Talk'" ; "'PRR Fax'" Sent: Monday, 23 February, 2004 9:36 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] Marker lights > Oops...it's Monday morning. Got it backwards...freight > locomotives lost their class lights in 1929, and > Passenger locos lost them in 1939... > > > > ===== > Bill Daniels > Las Vegas, NV > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.585 / Virus Database: 370 - Release Date: 02/11/2004 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:24:49 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] RE: [PRR] Marker lights Bill D, et al. What you said is essentially correct. The info on classification lamps has all be covered in great detail in two of the previous issues of TKM, and we'll wrap up the information on train signals with marker lamps in the April issue. Bill L. wanted a quick answer, I gave him what he wanted at the time and just wanted to make sure he didn't put red and yellow lenses in any smokebox classification lights. Al "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Marker lights Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:24:49 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20040223153338.6534.qmail@web11507.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bill D, et al. What you said is essentially correct. The info on classification lamps has all be covered in great detail in two of the previous issues of TKM, and we'll wrap up the information on train signals with marker lamps in the April issue. Bill L. wanted a quick answer, I gave him what he wanted at the time and just wanted to make sure he didn't put red and yellow lenses in any smokebox classification lights. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 10:24:49 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: HO Scale Coil-Elliptic Trucks (was Cabin Trucks) From: Bruce Smith In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, February 20, 2004, at 08:11 AM, Bruce Smith wrote: > My research is, as usual, impeccable...my memory however is quite > another question ! I quite distinctly remember the rub on the > Bowser 2D-F12 trucks when they were released as being backwards. I > wanted to use them under the Westerfield Camp Car set and every photo > I checked against the trucks I had (color guides 1-3, photos of camp > cars, photos of boxcars in service) showed that the spring groups were > reversed. I rechecked this just a few months back, when I was trying > to decide what to do with a bin full of "spare" trucks. In looking > just now, I see that you are correct and that the X32 builders photos > on-line all show the spring groups as you indicate. I am left with > several possibilities... > > 1) I screwed up (wouldn't be the first, nor the last time) > 2) The spring groups swapped sides at some point > 3) Bowser changed its tooling > > Since #1 and #3 are inconceivable, I'm voting for #2 for now ;^) but > I'll check this weekend and get back to y'all... Interesting thing happened...seems I'm half right (and half...?)...The best camp car photo clearly shows the coil spring on the left and the leaf on the right, just the opposite of the Bowser 2D-F12. HOWEVER, when i got out the microscope and looked, I found another photo of a camp car with the leaf on the left and the coil on the right, just like the Bowser. Further looking showed that the trucks under X31 and X32 class boxcars in service appear by and large to agree with the Bowser truck. So...looks like the Bowser truck is correct for the most part (Thanks Ben for pointing this out!) but, as would be expected, spring packages did get moved around, and so the opposite truck arrangement is possible too. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Marker lights Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:33:40 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Re: It gets confusing following these messages when they simply state [The early "modern" markers (on the smokebox) had both red and amber capabilities (and were oblong in shape) while the later ones were limited to a red indication, and they were cylindrical in shape (of course not all locomotives were changed over...many kept the older "claw" markers on the pilot beam)] As I said in my previous message, same subject, the skinny on marker lamps will be in the April TKM complete with engineering drawings of lamps, mounting, etc. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Transportation to/from the PRRT&HS hotel and airport. Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:49:47 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I'd call or e-mail the hotel - they would know if anyone. Bill Bigler - 4915 Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 10:50 AM Subject: [PRR] Transportation to/from the PRRT&HS hotel and airport. Has anybody investigated how to go from either aiport to the hotel which is hosting the PRRT&HS convention? At least for the Cincinnati airport, there is not complementary shuttle service. Marv Cadwell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] Marker lights Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 14:50:35 -0600 Morgan--Here are some photos to illustrate what Bill mentioned. Claw type on the pilot beam =20 http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr-s6784ahn.jpg Early modern type on the smokebox (red and yellow capable) http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr-s6800ahn.jpg Late modern type on the smokebox (red only) http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr-s6744ahn.jpg Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_04FA_01C3FA1C.64AA0C40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Morgan--Here are some photos to = illustrate=20 what Bill mentioned.
 
Claw type on the pilot beam  =
http://www.rr= -fallenflags.org/prr/prr-s6784ahn.jpg
 
 
Early modern type on the smokebox (red = and yellow=20 capable)
http://www.rr= -fallenflags.org/prr/prr-s6800ahn.jpg
 
 
Late modern type on the smokebox = (red=20 only)
http://www.rr= -fallenflags.org/prr/prr-s6744ahn.jpg
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
------=_NextPart_000_04FA_01C3FA1C.64AA0C40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 19:02:14 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Columbia PA loco service facilities From: "Frederic H. Abendschein" Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 18:26:58 -0600 Subject: [PRR] EP-20 single stripe From: John Sheets From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 19:47:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] EP-20 single stripe MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: John, I may have some info. I have in my personal collection of photos, shots of EP20 B units with the Keystone on the stripe, and photos of B-units with two Keystones along the bottom half of the carbody. The ones with the two Keystone do not have "PENNSYLVANIA" spelled out. But these are the early 1960s to merger paint jobs. I'm sure there are published photos of the E units in this paint. Hope this helps. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:03:25 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Columbia PA loco service facilities From: Bruce Smith In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <36D40C7E-66D2-11D8-BFB8-000A958DAD46@mail.auburn.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Monday, February 23, 2004, at 06:02 PM, Frederic H. Abendschein wrote: > I'll also send a jpeg of the "coal wharf"/tower after I did some > enhancements electronically to it. The enhancements did not reveal > anything > new to me. Hello All, I have posted the photos Fred refers to on my web site (with Fred's permission) The photo credit goes to Tom King. As Fred noted earlier, these are extreme enlargements of small portions of an 8x10 yard shot and are provided because of the details, not because they make great photos . The coal wharf: http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRR/ColaCoalRevA.jpg The P5As http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRR/ColaYdP5as.jpg The P5As appear to be dropping or picking up a cut of cars from the "south yard" and are most likely from an eastbound A&S train. Catenary extended over the yard throat, and Columbia was a common place to add or remove cars for trains in "arranged freight service". Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:22:00 -0800 (PST) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: [PRR] grab irons for cabin cars Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:29:12 -0800 (PST) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: [PRR] modify Rivarossi cars From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] modify Rivarossi cars Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:55:11 -0500 I always used the Grantline queen posts. They are not quite correct, = but are the closest thing I have found to the PRR-unique antenna posts. The = Utah Pacific parts are loco antenna posts for GP30s.. =20 Don't forget to change the trucks! The Rivarossi trucks are way to low = in profile. I have always used the MDC "Commonwealth" truck, but they are getting scarce. You will have to put a pad on the floor and move the = screw hole, because the Rivarossi trucks were swung off center. I have found = that the correct location for the new hole is right where the inboard nut and bolt is on the old body bolster. =20 I also repaint all my Rivarossi cars. Their interpretation of Craw Clarendon is terrible. While I am repainting, I paint the window frames silver. I paint the silver on first, then mask the window corners with gummed labels, then t the "gold", then mask the stripes with 1/64 = charting tape, then paint Tuscan Red. =20 =20 Oh yes, also carve off the heavy prismatic thing on the end of the car = and mount a real diaphragm. =20 While I have never done it, you might consider cutting down the = fishbelly underframe. No (?) streamlined car ever had such. Rivarossi just used = the floor from their 12-1 ! =20 regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Geoffrey = Van Dooren Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 12:29 PM To: PRR talk list Subject: [PRR] modify Rivarossi cars Hi, I want to improve the look of my Rivarossi cars. Which parts are needed? I already listed: Detail Associates: roof and vestibule grab irons Red Cap Line: ashtrays =20 Are the Grandt Line queenposts or the Utah Pacific antennamasts correct = for the antenna on the View cars? =20 Thanks, Geoffrey _____ =20 Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C3FAD5.702D9780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Message
I=20 always used the Grantline queen posts.  They are not quite correct, = but are=20 the closest thing I have found to the PRR-unique antenna posts. The = Utah=20 Pacific parts are loco antenna posts for GP30s..
 
Don't=20 forget to change the trucks!  The Rivarossi trucks are way to low = in=20 profile.   I have always used the MDC "Commonwealth" truck, = but they=20 are getting scarce.  You will have to put a pad on the floor and = move the=20 screw hole, because the Rivarossi trucks were swung off center.  I = have=20 found that the correct location for the new hole is right where the = inboard nut=20 and bolt is on the old body bolster.
 
I also=20 repaint all my Rivarossi cars.  Their interpretation of Craw = Clarendon is=20 terrible. While I am repainting, I paint the window frames silver.  = I paint=20 the silver on first, then mask the window corners with gummed labels, = then t the=20 "gold", then mask the stripes with 1/64 charting tape, then paint Tuscan = Red.
 
 
Oh=20 yes, also carve off the heavy prismatic thing on the end of the car and = mount a=20 real diaphragm.
 
While=20 I have never done it, you might consider cutting down the fishbelly = underframe.=20 No (?) streamlined car ever had such.  Rivarossi just used the = floor from=20 their 12-1 !
 
regards,
Andy Miller
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of = Geoffrey Van=20 Dooren
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 12:29 = PM
To: PRR=20 talk list
Subject: [PRR] modify Rivarossi = cars

Hi,
I want to improve the look of my Rivarossi cars. Which parts are=20 needed?
I already listed:
Detail Associates: roof and vestibule grab irons
Red Cap Line: ashtrays
 
Are the Grandt Line queenposts or the Utah Pacific antennamasts = correct=20 for the antenna on the View cars?
 
Thanks,
Geoffrey

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo!=20 Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you = want.
------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C3FAD5.702D9780-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] E or F unit lift rings in HO scale Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 18:08:39 +0000 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:18:26 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] E or F unit lift rings in HO scale From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:29:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] E or F unit lift rings in HO scale MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Ted, Overland makes some too. But harder to find. I grabbed a handful for future use on my Genesis F's. They are a bit more delicate looking than those from Cal Scale and DA. Not sure which ones scale out the best yet however....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 14:30:20 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] grab irons for cabin cars Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 16:30:25 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Vondruska Subject: [PRR] Mark Bej, are you out there? From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] E or F unit lift rings in HO scale Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 21:33:17 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p5 (Debian) at paonline.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Guys, Bill is probably right about the durability aspect of the two choices of parts, but the DA parts are almost a perfect match in size, the Cal Scale parts are not quite as close. Have never seen the Overland parts. Gary, are they still available? Jack Consoli ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Daniels To: Ted Andrews ; Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] E or F unit lift rings in HO scale > Ted, > > They are both good. The CalScale ones are brass, while > the DA ones are black styrene. It's your choice in > regards to which you prefer...my feeling is that the > Cal Scale ones would be more durable (they are cast > with a bit of sprue left on which would act as a > mounting post), but I've had no problems with the DA > ones. > > > > ===== > Bill Daniels > Las Vegas, NV > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 21:49:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] E or F unit lift rings in HO scale MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jack, I am assuming the nose rings are still available. I got mine last year from the guy (Greco) with decals who sells at all the eastern ohio shows. I suppose these are the parts that Overland used on any and all PRR EMD E and F models. They should be listed in ny Overland catalog...Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 21:57:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] E or F unit lift rings in HO scale MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jack, I just dug the Overland parts out. It is part #9290 Lift Lug......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 22:05:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] E or F unit lift rings in HO scale MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jack, One last post. A Google search came up with several hits. Here is one. Look for part # 9290 here: http://www.modeltrains.com/WEB%20-%20CMT/Overland%20Models/Parts/over-parts.htm They show a drawing, not the actual part...Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] E or F unit lift rings in HO scale Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 00:03:45 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I don't know about accuracy. The CalScale ones seem a little bigger, but I prefer them as they have a mounting lug which makes them last a little longer in use, at least at our club. The Detail Associates are nice but get whacked off like brake wheels and stirrup steps (and cab shades for the more modern era). Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Andrews" > Who makes the most accurate lift rings in HO scale. I believe that Cal Scale > and Detail Associates are the only ones that make them. Are there others? > Which one do you prefer in terms of accuracy and installation? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mark Taylor" Subject: [PRR] Champ Decal Part Number Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:19:35 -0500 From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 13:16:59 EST Subject: [PRR] Jervis Langdon, R.I.P. >From alt.obituaries: ============================================================ Jervis Langdon Jr., a top railroad executive during an era in which the industry was reshaped, died on Monday, February 16, 2004, at his home in Elmira, New York, from congestive heart failure, said his wife, Irene, at the age of 99. During a four-decade career, Mr. Langdon was president of several of the nation's leading railroads, including Penn Central, the Baltimore & Ohio and the Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific. It was an era that began as a boom time for railroads and ended with many railroads in bankruptcy. One of Mr. Langdon's management goals was to have railroads develop realistic cost-accounting procedures that would allow them to analyze how much money their various passenger and freight services were making or losing. Mr. Langdon was a great-nephew of Mark Twain and kept a large picture of him in his office. He grew up in Elmira, and, after graduating from Cornell Law School, went to work in 1931 for the Lehigh Valley Railroad, first in the office of the foreign freight agent and then in the legal department. A decade later, he was hired as a lawyer by the New York Central and, subsequently, by the Chesapeake & Ohio Railroad as a vice president. During World War II, Mr. Langdon was a colonel with the Army Air Forces, flying transport planes in Burma and India. In 1961, after serving for five years as general counsel of the Baltimore & Ohio, he became that railroad's president. By then, consolidation among railroads had begun as passengers increasingly favored cars and airplanes over train travel and railways and truck companies increasingly competed for freight. In 1963, Mr. Langdon left the Baltimore & Ohio after a takeover by the Chesapeake & Ohio. The next year, he became president of the Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific, known as the Rock Island. He was appointed a trustee of the Penn Central Railroad in 1970 during its long-running bankruptcy, and later became its president. He retired in 1976 after Penn Central became part of Conrail. In 1982, he donated a family home in Elmira, known as Quarry Farm, to Elmira College for use as a center for Mark Twain studies. Twain spent several summers at the farm. ============================================================ Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA --part1_62.3ad37ce3.2d6e409b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" From alt.o= bituaries:
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Jervis Langdon Jr., a top railroad executive during an era in which
the industry was reshaped, died on Monday, February 16, 2004, at his
home in Elmira, New York, from congestive heart failure, said his
wife, Irene, at the age of 99.

During a four-decade career, Mr. Langdon was president of several of
the nation's leading railroads, including Penn Central, the Baltimore
& Ohio and the Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific. It was an era tha= t
began as a boom time for railroads and ended with many railroads in
bankruptcy.
   
One of Mr. Langdon's management goals was to have railroads develop
realistic cost-accounting procedures that would allow them to analyze
how much money their various passenger and freight services were
making or losing.

Mr. Langdon was a great-nephew of Mark Twain and kept a large picture
of him in his office. He grew up in Elmira, and, after graduating from
Cornell Law School, went to work in 1931 for the Lehigh Valley
Railroad, first in the office of the foreign freight agent and then in
the legal department.

A decade later, he was hired as a lawyer by the New York Central and,
subsequently, by the Chesapeake & Ohio Railroad as a vice president.
During World War II, Mr. Langdon was a colonel with the Army Air
Forces, flying transport planes in Burma and India.

In 1961, after serving for five years as general counsel of the
Baltimore & Ohio, he became that railroad's president. By then,
consolidation among railroads had begun as passengers increasingly
favored cars and airplanes over train travel and railways and truck
companies increasingly competed for freight.

In 1963, Mr. Langdon left the Baltimore & Ohio after a takeover by t= he
Chesapeake & Ohio. The next year, he became president of the Chicago= ,
Rock Island & Pacific, known as the Rock Island. He was appointed a
trustee of the Penn Central Railroad in 1970 during its long-running
bankruptcy, and later became its president. He retired in 1976 after
Penn Central became part of Conrail.

In 1982, he donated a family home in Elmira, known as Quarry Farm, to
Elmira College for use as a center for Mark Twain studies. Twain spent
several summers at the farm.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA
=20
--part1_62.3ad37ce3.2d6e409b_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:28:45 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Re:T-1's on the NW list From: John Sheets From: "L. Heintz" Subject: [PRR] Coil spring / Leaf spring on camp cars Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:11:03 -0500 Bruce and others, Just a thought. Is it possible that the combination of springs is = assembled so that the side frames are / look symmetrical so that when = you view the other side of the car ,the springs look backwards ?? It = seems that if the springs were indeed backwards from one sideframe to = the other, that strange things might happen when the truck flexes during = use. If this is the case , then, Did the trucks get installed so that one type of spring was toward the = center of the car??=20 Lynn ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C3FBCA.BB679840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Bruce and others,
 
Just a thought. Is it possible that the = combination=20 of springs is assembled so that the side frames are / look symmetrical = so that=20 when you view the other side of the car ,the springs look backwards=20 ??   It seems that if the springs were indeed backwards from = one=20 sideframe to the other, that strange things might happen when the truck = flexes=20 during use.  If this is the case , then,
Did the trucks get installed so that = one type of=20 spring was toward the center of the car?? 
Lynn
------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C3FBCA.BB679840-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] Coil spring / Leaf spring on camp cars Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:37:03 -0600 Lynn Heintz asked: Is it possible that the combination of springs is assembled so that the = side frames are / look symmetrical so that when you view the other side = of the car ,the springs look backwards? It seems that if the springs = were indeed backwards from one sideframe to the other, that strange = things might happen when the truck flexes during use. Not likely. The idea behind the coil-elliptic spring package was that = if you use two springs with different dampening rates, you would cut = down on possible spring harmonics which would cause the car to ride = poorly. You wouldn't want the same spring directly opposite from each = other because of this. Ben Hom ------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C3FBCE.5CCED740 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Lynn Heintz asked:
Is it possible that the = combination of=20 springs is assembled so that the side frames are / look symmetrical so = that when=20 you view the other side of the car ,the springs look = backwards?   It=20 seems that if the springs were indeed backwards from one sideframe to = the other,=20 that strange things might happen when the truck flexes during = use.
 
Not likely.  The idea = behind the=20 coil-elliptic spring package was that if you use two springs with = different=20 dampening rates, you would cut down on possible spring harmonics which = would=20 cause the car to ride poorly.  You wouldn't want the same = spring=20 directly opposite from each other because of this.
 
 
Ben = Hom 
------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C3FBCE.5CCED740-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Website update Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 22:23:03 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, I just updated my website to include another steam engine I just completed. Please give it a look. I have added a S Scale PRR M1a. It is my best weathering job on a steam engine so far. I have been staring at it wishing it were mine I am so pleased with it. But I will be doing a run of my own steam engines before the spring. I will post photos of them as well. I realize my website is a little slow in loading for dial up users. Please give it time to completely load. I will be making some revisions to help out with that soon. Thank You, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 19:56:02 GMT Subject: [PRR] Pass Trains Sunshine Special, TX Eagle, Penn Texas From: Dominic Mazoch X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 20:10:50 GMT Subject: [PRR] Main Rod Problems on K4s From: Dominic Mazoch X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" From: Dominic Mazoch Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 20:10:50 GMT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Main Rod Problems on K4s In the last issue of the Keystone, there was an article about the main rod problem on the K4s. I'm not a steam expert, but I might have an idea about what might be happenning. As the rodding is going back and forth, it goes forward, stops, goes back, stops, goes foreward, in relationship with the track. This constant back and forth could cause the metal to weaken. The use of "slab" metal rods in the area of breakage seems o confirm this. And thse comments do not consider the stress from the track, counterbalancing, et. al. It would cost $$$, but it would be nice to place sensors on the rodding of 1361, and get some answers. Dominic Mazoch ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" From: Dominic Mazoch Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 19:56:02 GMT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Pass Trains Sunshine Special, TX Eagle, Penn Texas I have an interest in the above trains because I am a member of the PRRT&HS Penn Texas Chapter. Chapter name, of couse, is the NYP to STL paseenger train which had connections to the MPL Texas Eagle. With that in mind, I bought the book, PRR Pass. Trains, Consists and Cars, Vol 1, E-W Trains by Harry Stegmaier. Pages 44-48, and 71 cover the PT (Penn Texas) trains. I did see some mistakes, concerning info on the MP side. I also have some questions. Hence I am posting to PRR and MP groups. P44, text. The El Paso car was carried by the MP # 21, the second section of the TE, which operated to Ft.Worth and Dallas. ER, WB, if you are going to El Paso, you go to Dallas first, then Ft. Worth. P45 Pic of MP car Roaring River. Car is in solid blue with a stripe. Captions states the car is painted in "Jenks Blue". Actually, the blue used is Irod (SP?) Blue, a paint color produced by the Dupont Company. The Jenks name is the president who ordered the color cahnge to dark blue on pass. and diesel engines. Question: Did any PRR cars get the solid blue treatment? P46 Pic of T&P Eagle Beach. Car has T&P diamond logo. Some T&P passenger cars did get the "buzzsaw" logo with "Texas Pacific Lines" instead of MPL. Saw this on the TE in New Braunfels TX in the late 1960's before Amtrak. Also, the T&P had to be "independent" by TX state law until the late 1950's. TX required that a RR operating in TX had to hhave its HQ in the state. Corrections wilcomed. Dominic Mazoch ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walter Prusick" Subject: [PRR] B60 truck spacing Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 16:35:29 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Guys, I find that a difference exists of a foot and a half by comparing the distance from car end to centerline of kingpin on Eastern Car Shops B60 (which is "pre-drilled) at 8' 3" with the drawing in PRR HW Passanger and Equip. which shows this distance to be 9' 9.625". I just gotta believe that the model is "incorrect". I'd like some independent confirmation of this observation and whether 9' 9.625" is correct. (and no I don't plan on getting down to 0.625 of an HO inch ;-) Thanks, Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 22:04:02 GMT Subject: [PRR] PRR leading on steam engines. From: Dominic Mazoch From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:52:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR leading on steam engines. MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Dom, Try this..... Picture the main rod crankpins on the Engineers side of a right hand lead non PRR loco. Say they are resting at the 12:00 high position. The Firemens side crankpins would then be at 3:00 position when viewing from that side. For a PRR Left Lead picture this. If viewing the crankpins on the firemans side, say they are resting at the 12:00 high position, then the engineers side crankpins would be resting in the 9:00 Position. I have no idea why the PRR was opposite. Not sure if it had a purpose or not. I don't even think a model has been correctly modeled that way yet. It would be easy to do. Just give the firemens side drivers a full half twist counterclockwise so they would be the lead side......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BillyDee53@aol.com Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:53:56 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR leading on steam engines. If you look at a steam locomotive's driver wheelsets you will see that each wheel has a crankpin, where the side rods attach. The crankpins on each wheelset are 90 degrees of rotation apart from each other. The locomotive has two double acting cylinders connected to the drivers by the side rods. With the crankpins 90 degrees apart, while one piston might be at top or bottom dead center, the other is always in mid-stroke. Steam can be admitted to the cylinder which in mid-stroke, to start the locomotive moving. Most railroads in the USA had the right crankpin ahead of the left; they were right-hand lead. The Penn had the left side ahead; it's locos were left-hand lead. As the drivers turned, the mass of the steel side rods slammed down at the bottom of the wheels revolution, causing a pounding on the track structure. Listen to a loco's exhaust beat and you will hear that the first beat of the four, per revolution, is louder than the rest. The hammering on this stroke was harder too. The Penn ran its trains on the right of multiple tracks. By using left-hand-lead on its locos the dynamic pounding was worst toward the center of the roadbed structure, where the road bed was most able to withstand the forces. Maybe someone else can explain it better...Bill --part1_85.6413033.2d6fd304_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" If you look at a steam locomotive's= driver wheelsets you will see that each wheel has a crankpin, where the sid= e rods attach.  The crankpins on each wheelset are 90 degrees of rotati= on apart from each other.  The locomotive has two double acting cylinde= rs connected to the drivers by the side rods.   With the crankpins= 90 degrees apart, while one piston might be at top or bottom dead center, t= he other is always in mid-stroke.  Steam can be admitted to the cylinde= r which in mid-stroke, to start the locomotive moving.
Most railroads in the USA had the right crankpin ahead of the left;  th= ey were right-hand lead.  The Penn had the left side ahead; it's locos=20= were left-hand lead.
As the drivers turned, the mass of the steel side rods slammed down at the b= ottom of the wheels revolution, causing a pounding on the track structure.&n= bsp; Listen to a loco's exhaust beat and you will hear that the first beat o= f the four, per revolution, is louder than the rest.  The hammering on=20= this stroke was harder too.  The Penn ran its trains on the right of mu= ltiple tracks.  By using left-hand-lead on its locos the dynamic poundi= ng was worst toward the center of the roadbed structure, where the road bed=20= was most able to withstand the forces.  Maybe someone else can explain=20= it better...Bill --part1_85.6413033.2d6fd304_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR leading on steam engines. Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:04:22 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Dominic, As you know, the drivewheels of a steam locomotive have the crankpins set 90 degrees apart on the axle. On most railroads the drivers on the right side lead the drivers on the left by 90 degrees. PRR had the drivers on the left lead the drivers on the right by 90 degrees. (Or, was it the other way around) ;

To: ; Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 5:04 PM Subject: [PRR] PRR leading on steam engines. > > I read that PRR had a different way its steam engines "lead" over other railroads. What does that mean? > > Thanks, > > > Dominic Mazoch > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 23:24:12 GMT Subject: [PRR] Driver "Slam", Left Lead From: Dominic Mazoch X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" From: Dominic Mazoch Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 22:04:02 GMT Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR leading on steam engines. I read that PRR had a different way its steam engines "lead" over other railroads. What does that mean? Thanks, Dominic Mazoch ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:52:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] PRR leading on steam engines. Dom, Try this..... Picture the main rod crankpins on the Engineers side of a right hand lead non PRR loco. Say they are resting at the 12:00 high position. The Firemens side crankpins would then be at 3:00 position when viewing from that side. For a PRR Left Lead picture this. If viewing the crankpins on the firemans side, say they are resting at the 12:00 high position, then the engineers side crankpins would be resting in the 9:00 Position. I have no idea why the PRR was opposite. Not sure if it had a purpose or not. I don't even think a model has been correctly modeled that way yet. It would be easy to do. Just give the firemens side drivers a full half twist counterclockwise so they would be the lead side......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" From: Dominic Mazoch Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 23:24:12 GMT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Driver "Slam", Left Lead Thanks for the posts able the left hand lead. When 3985 (UP) left Houston after the Super Bowl, she cam to a stop just north of Spring Jct. When she started up, you could "feel" and can understand the "slam" on the first stroke after the stop. Of course, the 3985 has two sets of engines, not one on most of PRR power. Dominic Mazoch ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] B60 truck spacing Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:30:10 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Walt--It may depend on what you are measuring on the model. The HW Passenger Equip. book drawing shows a measurement of 9' 9.625" from the kingpin all the way to the pulling face of the coupler. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----- Original Message ----- > Guys, > > I find that a difference exists of a foot and a half by comparing the > distance from car end to centerline of kingpin on Eastern Car Shops B60 > (which is "pre-drilled) at 8' 3" with the drawing in PRR HW Passanger and > Equip. which shows this distance to be 9' 9.625". I just gotta believe that > the model is "incorrect". I'd like some independent confirmation of this > observation and whether 9' 9.625" is correct. (and no I don't plan on > getting down to 0.625 of an HO inch ;-) > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Railroad Prototype Modelers meet Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 21:54:41 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, If you should find yourself in the Philadelphia Pa. area in the last weekend of March, perhaps you would want to attend the Railroad Prototype Modelers meeting. You can find the details here: http://www.phillynmra.org/RPMmeet.htm The models and modelers that will be in attendance are some of the best in the country. There will be clinics and the areas best layouts on tour. This is an all scales all railroads meet with the emphasis being building the best models possible. I am looking forward to going, as it is my first time attending this group's meets. Hopefully my attendance will not have a negative impact on future registrations! (:~\) Thank You, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: [PRR] Jeff Freeman Contact Info Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 22:38:19 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Does anyone have contact info for Jeff Freeman (co-author of the Prototype Modeler X29 articles in 1978-79)? If so, please contact me off list. TIA. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] Champ Decal Part Number Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 22:23:22 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Mark--You need Champ HH-5, Pennsylvania 30" Herald. You will have to trim the keystone out of the circle. I don't have dimensions for the C-liner, but from photos it appears to be the same size. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Taylor" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 9:19 AM Subject: [PRR] Champ Decal Part Number > List; Would anyone on the list possibly have the part number for the large > Keystone that is placed on the side of an Alco FA2 (above the lettering), I > am using the dulux gold set for the lettering and the striping. Would these > also be appropriate for a FM C-Liner as well.As always any help is > appreciated. Mark > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Christopher Baker" Subject: [PRR] Broadway Limited - Art Print Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 00:04:48 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I just received a flyer from The Postal Commemorative Society, announcing a new art print of the Broadway Limited. The illustrations are impressive at first glance, then I realized there are some problems with the image. The train is supposed to be the 1938 edition of the Broadway Limited leaving Chicago Union Station. While the locomotive is depicted fairly well, the consist is not in the "Fleet of Modernism" paint scheme. The cars are painted in the postwar version of solid Tuscan with the gold striping above and below the windows. There are two passenger cars shown resting in the coach yard to the right (fireman's side) of the locomotive. One car (some type of smooth-sided Pullman) is also painted in the postwar scheme and has the short skirting removed and too-modern truck assemblies. The car immiediately adjacent is a corrugated stainless sheathed P-S car with a poorly executed Penn Central logo on it! Too bad -- the print is hailed as an accurate depiction of the famous train. Indeed it is a purely fictional scene.... And they want $140.00 for it! Chris Baker PRRT&HS #1918 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:34:14 GMT Subject: [PRR] Jenks Blue From: Dominic Mazoch X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" From: Dominic Mazoch Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:34:14 GMT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Jenks Blue I got this off the MoPac Yahoo group: No PRR passenger cars were painted into the solid MoPac blue (aka Jenks blue). "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:00:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] M1b 6783 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Folks, There is a small debate (actually not a debat but rather an investigation) between myself and another. This concerns M1b 6783. The question concerns the Dog House on the 6783's Tender. I assume all were built with Wood Dog Houses. Later Steel Dog Houses were used as replacements. I am trying to locate the perfect photo of 6783 during the mid 1950's to show exacly which dog house it had at this late of date. Here is what I found so far. As we know, Don Wood enjoyed taking photos of the 6783. Pictured in his book "I Remember Pennsy" are 3 views of the 6783. Sadly, none of these pics show the rear of the tender. So I was sent scrambling for other photos of the 6783. I found another on page 100 of Pennsy Power 2. With a magnifying glass, to me I believed I was seeing a wood dog house. But an email from Steve H, pointed out a feature found on Steel Dog Houses that was present. So I am in doubt, a little, of this being a wood dog house. Then I found a photo of the 6783 in the M1 book published by NJ International. Page 54 shows a nice color view. Again, with magnifting glass, it apears the roof has the overhang found on Wood Dog Houses. But again, Steve (I say this with a grin) Shoots me down again explaining the mounting detail. So now he has me really doubting what I originally thought. Anyone here want some homework? I have exhausted my books and photo collection looking for that perfect photo of 6783 and it's Dog House. Is there anyone here with more resources or contacts with 6783 photos. Basic question is what type dog house the 6783 had in the mid 1950's. Feel free to give your opinion on the phtos I mentioned above too. Maybe your magnifying glass is stronger than mine or maybe someone out there can help Steve convince me 100% that it was a steel dog house. Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:00:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] M1b 6783 Folks, There is a small debate (actually not a debat but rather an investigation) between myself and another. This concerns M1b 6783. The question concerns the Dog House on the 6783's Tender. I assume all were built with Wood Dog Houses. Later Steel Dog Houses were used as replacements. I am trying to locate the perfect photo of 6783 during the mid 1950's to show exacly which dog house it had at this late of date. Here is what I found so far. As we know, Don Wood enjoyed taking photos of the 6783. Pictured in his book "I Remember Pennsy" are 3 views of the 6783. Sadly, none of these pics show the rear of the tender. So I was sent scrambling for other photos of the 6783. I found another on page 100 of Pennsy Power 2. With a magnifying glass, to me I believed I was seeing a wood dog house. But an email from Steve H, pointed out a feature found on Steel Dog Houses that was present. So I am in doubt, a little, of this being a wood dog house. Then I found a photo of the 6783 in the M1 book published by NJ International. Page 54 shows a nice color view. Again, with magnifting glass, it apears the roof has the overhang found on Wood Dog Houses. But again, Steve (I say this with a grin) Shoots me down again explaining the mounting detail. So now he has me really doubting what I originally thought. Anyone here want some homework? I have exhausted my books and photo collection looking for that perfect photo of 6783 and it's Dog House. Is there anyone here with more resources or contacts with 6783 photos. Basic question is what type dog house the 6783 had in the mid 1950's. Feel free to give your opinion on the phtos I mentioned above too. Maybe your magnifying glass is stronger than mine or maybe someone out there can help Steve convince me 100% that it was a steel dog house. Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "L. Heintz" Subject: [PRR] Canandaigua, NY Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:59:15 -0500 I am reading an account of life in Canandaigua during the early years of = a now resident of Florida. From memory he claims to have been drawn to = the PRR yard by the sound of a steam engine one night in 1957. He says = that the engine was pulling a train of iron ore from Africa that was = being handed over to the NYC in Canan. which (NYC) was then pulling it = to Buffalo(possibly Bethlehem steel ?). What circumstances would have caused this ore train to be routed thru = Canan. and not up the Emporium - Buffalo line ?? Another part of this account was that he became aware of someone taking = flash photos while the engine was being serviced. Upon investigation he = met a man named Phil Hastings,who was working at a local hospital, = taking the photos.The writer claims that one of these photos is on the = cover of a recently published book. Can anyone provide info on this book = ?? =20 Lynn ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C3FD29.1F4E0880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

I am reading an account of life=20 in Canandaigua during the early years of a now resident of Florida. = From=20 memory he claims to have been drawn to the PRR yard by the sound of a = steam=20 engine one night in 1957. He says that the engine was pulling a train of = iron=20 ore from Africa that was being handed over to the NYC in Canan. which = (NYC) was=20 then pulling it to Buffalo(possibly Bethlehem steel ?).
What circumstances would have caused = this ore train=20 to be routed thru Canan. and not up the Emporium - Buffalo line = ??
 
Another part of this account was that = he became=20 aware of someone taking flash photos while the engine was being = serviced. Upon=20 investigation he met a man named Phil Hastings,who was working at a = local=20 hospital, taking the photos.The writer claims that one of these photos = is on the=20 cover of a recently published book. Can anyone provide info on this book = ??  
 
Lynn
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C3FD29.1F4E0880-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:20:47 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] Canandaigua, NY Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:43:16 -0500 From: Owen Thorne Subject: Re: [PRR] Canandaigua, NY X-Spam-Score: -2.8 EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,NOSPAM_INC,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,X_ACCEPT_LANG X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.37 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The book is titled "Philip R. Hastings. Portrait of the Pennsylvania Railroad" by Douglas M. Nelson, c.2002, Pine Tree Press, Los Angeles CA. I believe it is still available from most railroad related booksellers. The book contains some text but mostly large black-and-white photos with extensive captions and is of excellent quality. There are many photos from Hastings' trips to the area in 1956 and 1957 including several night shots, probably from that same evening. Is the mentioned account of life in Canandaigua available anywhere? Thankyou, Owen Thorne Bill Daniels wrote: > Lynn, > > It's most likely that this train came up the Elmira > Branch, which didn't fully dieselize (diseasilize?) > until September of 1957. I can't explain why this > train came up that way...there might have been a > blockage on the Emporium line, a pre-existing > arrangement to ship via NYC by the shipper, or any > other reason. > > The late Dr. Phil Hastings did indeed spend time along > the Elmira branch and the picture you could well be on > the cover of the book recently done on his photography > of the Pennsy (sorry, I can't remember the title off > the top of my head) > > ===== > Bill Daniels > Las Vegas, NV > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. -- Owen Thorne Fairhill, MD owen@udel.edu 1-410-620-2078 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: [PRR] PRR X29 Models (NOT HO Scale) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 17:50:16 +0000 Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:51:29 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] Canandaigua, NY From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Canandaigua, NY Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:10:39 -0500 I doubt seriously that there was a steam locomotive involved on that line since the NYC was all diesel by 1953. However, the PRR and NYC pooled power from Clearfield to Geneva on COAL trains departing the Elmira Branch at Himrods. NYC Alco FAs did the chores for 6 months out of the year and Pennsy whatever they had available did the job in the off six months. Most of the time it was F-7s for the PRR. However, as I remember it, Canandagua was on a short branch line off of the Elmira Branch. No maps at hand to confirm at the moment. Bill Volkmer (not much of a historian) -----Original Message----- From: L. Heintz [mailto:lheintz2@rochester.rr.com] Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 11:59 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Canandaigua, NY I am reading an account of life in Canandaigua during the early years of a now resident of Florida. From memory he claims to have been drawn to the PRR yard by the sound of a steam engine one night in 1957. He says that the engine was pulling a train of iron ore from Africa that was being handed over to the NYC in Canan. which (NYC) was then pulling it to Buffalo(possibly Bethlehem steel ?). What circumstances would have caused this ore train to be routed thru Canan. and not up the Emporium - Buffalo line ?? Another part of this account was that he became aware of someone taking flash photos while the engine was being serviced. Upon investigation he met a man named Phil Hastings,who was working at a local hospital, taking the photos.The writer claims that one of these photos is on the cover of a recently published book. Can anyone provide info on this book ?? Lynn ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C3FD33.19080020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
I=20 doubt seriously that there was a steam locomotive involved on that line = since=20 the NYC was all diesel by 1953.  However, the PRR and NYC pooled = power from=20 Clearfield to Geneva on COAL trains departing the Elmira Branch at=20 Himrods.  NYC Alco FAs did the chores for 6 months out of the year = and=20 Pennsy whatever they had available did the job in the off six = months.  Most=20 of the time it was F-7s for the PRR.  However, as I remember it, = Canandagua=20 was on a short branch line off of the Elmira Branch.  No maps at = hand to=20 confirm at the moment.
 
Bill=20 Volkmer  (not much of a historian)
-----Original Message-----
From: L. = Heintz=20 [mailto:lheintz2@rochester.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, February = 27, 2004=20 11:59 AM
To: prr-talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] = Canandaigua,=20 NY

I am reading an account of life=20 in Canandaigua during the early years of a now resident of = Florida. From=20 memory he claims to have been drawn to the PRR yard by the sound of a = steam=20 engine one night in 1957. He says that the engine was pulling a train = of iron=20 ore from Africa that was being handed over to the NYC in Canan. which = (NYC)=20 was then pulling it to Buffalo(possibly Bethlehem steel = ?).
What circumstances would have caused = this ore=20 train to be routed thru Canan. and not up the Emporium - Buffalo line=20 ??
 
Another part of this account was that = he became=20 aware of someone taking flash photos while the engine was being = serviced. Upon=20 investigation he met a man named Phil Hastings,who was working at a = local=20 hospital, taking the photos.The writer claims that one of these photos = is on=20 the cover of a recently published book. Can anyone provide info on = this book=20 ??  
 
Lynn
------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C3FD33.19080020-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:22:20 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Vondruska Subject: [PRR] mark bej's e-mail address From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR X29 Models (NOT HO Scale) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:29:13 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Ben, Prior to the availability of the Fine-n-Scale and then the Red Caboose X29's in N scale, an approximation could be made from the Model Power boxcar. It was the correct height and had Youngstown doors and dreadnought ends like the later X29's but the roof was wrong. But, replace the running board and brakewheel with those from Micro-Trains and it was a "stand-in" To see what I'm talking about, go to: http://www.gtcom.net/~mahlkov/img27.gif Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 12:50 PM Subject: [PRR] PRR X29 Models (NOT HO Scale) > Looking for input from non-HO scale modelers for the TKM X29 series > regarding what you've been using to model the Class X29 boxcar. > Here's what I have so far: > > O: ? > (Jeff Freeman did an extensive kitbash of a Reynolds [ex-Athearn] > reefer in the October 1978 Prototype Modeler.) > > S: Modified American Flyer > (Brass model coming from Bill Lane) > > N: Red Caboose > Fine-N-Scale > > TIA! > > > Ben Hom > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Canandaigua, NY Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:57:31 -0500 Lynn, et al., The book is "Philip R. Hastings Portrait of the Pennsylvania Railroad," by Douglas M. Nelson. Published by Pine Tree Press, in LA. It's one of the best B&W PRR picture books to come down the pike (track) in some time. I highly recommend it. Al ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3FD39.A4FD1B00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
Lynn, et al.,
 
The book is "Philip R. Hastings = Portrait of=20 the Pennsylvania Railroad," by Douglas M. Nelson. Published by Pine Tree = Press,=20 in LA.
 
It's one of the best B&W PRR = picture=20 books to come down the pike (track) in some time. I highly recommend=20 it.
 
Al
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3FD39.A4FD1B00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Power must have missed this one Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:10:49 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3176675803&category=19154 Eeeck! Gary Mittner must be right. There is no shame (or research for that matter) in G scale! Thank You, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:01:41 -0600 From: Chuck Bowman Subject: [PRR] Hastings book cover photo Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 09:37:20 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Coal in southwestern Pennsylvania From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] PRR Builders Photos negatives Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 10:52:40 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, I have 6 listings on Ebay of 4" x 5" copy negatives of PRR Builders Photos. They are for GR (1) G24 (1) G27(4) F30 (1) and F36 (1). If this link does not work http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid =crazyman762&sort=3&rows=25&since=-1&rd=1 search for Ebay seller I D Crazyman762. I also have a CD with 48 HIGH resolution (9-16 MB JPG each) Builders Photo scans of the FD2 Queen Mary Flat car from the beginning of construction to testing and delivering its first load in Texas. The opening bid equates to a whopping .20 per photo. All of the auctions end tomorrow night. I have recently purchased a collection of 185 first generation 8 x 10 PRR Builders photos. I may receive them today. I will be selling the duplicates when that group has been determined. The collection was heavily slanted towards freight cars. The Ebay and photo sales help me buy MORE photos, which, as most know I am always willing to share with those who need them. My current collection can be viewed here. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/PRRphotos.xls Thank You, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] PRR K4 assignments Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 12:00:44 -0500 Does anyone have a list of which engine houses K4s were assigned for = any times between 1927 and 1940-41? In particular I am looking for K4s assigned to run the Williamsport = Renovo divisions. I would most like to find engines assigned to Sunbury, = Northumberland, Williamsport, Renovo or Emporium roundhouses.(or = anywhere in between). If you have any of this information I would like the engine number(s), = what engine house it was assigned, and the time period it was assigned = there. Thanks, Greg Stone PRRT&HS member focusing on the Renovo yards and the P&E=20 ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C3FDF2.7EA8A3C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Does anyone have  a list of which = engine=20 houses K4s were assigned for any times between 1927 and = 1940-41?
In particular I am looking for K4s = assigned to run=20 the Williamsport Renovo divisions. I would most like to find engines = assigned to=20 Sunbury, Northumberland, Williamsport, Renovo or Emporium = roundhouses.(or=20 anywhere in between).
If you have any of this = information I would=20 like the engine number(s), what engine house it was assigned, = and the=20 time period it was assigned there.
Thanks,
Greg Stone
PRRT&HS member focusing on the = Renovo=20 yards and the P&E 
------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C3FDF2.7EA8A3C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR K4 assignments Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:40:40 -0500 Greg & list, I don't believe I've seen anything that old with locomotive assignments. = There are some guys on the list who have posted websites with form = MP-221's (I think that's the number) of locomotive assignments, but I = don't remember any that old. Also, the books "Black Diamonds, Black = Gold" have some charts of locomotive assignments going back into the = '40's, and I distinctly remember Williamsport and Renovo Divisions. I = don't have them handy at the moment. Also, Chris Baer of the Hagley = Museum, whom I believe is on this list, is an outstanding resource of = PRR information - perhaps he can help or provide some leads. How about = the Society's archives in Lewistown? The Kalmbach Memorial Library in = Nashville (?) will research and copy articles for you for a nominal fee, = but that one may be a little far fetched. Good luck! Bill Bigler - 4915 Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Greg Stone=20 To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 12:00 PM Subject: [PRR] PRR K4 assignments Does anyone have a list of which engine houses K4s were assigned for = any times between 1927 and 1940-41? In particular I am looking for K4s assigned to run the Williamsport = Renovo divisions. I would most like to find engines assigned to Sunbury, = Northumberland, Williamsport, Renovo or Emporium roundhouses.(or = anywhere in between). If you have any of this information I would like the engine number(s), = what engine house it was assigned, and the time period it was assigned = there. Thanks, Greg Stone PRRT&HS member focusing on the Renovo yards and the P&E ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C3FE00.74CF3EA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Greg & list,
 
I don't believe I've seen anything that old with = locomotive assignments.  There are some guys on the list who have = posted=20 websites with form MP-221's (I think that's the number) of locomotive=20 assignments, but I don't remember any that old.  Also, the books = "Black=20 Diamonds, Black Gold" have some charts of locomotive assignments going = back into=20 the '40's, and I distinctly remember Williamsport and Renovo = Divisions.  I=20 don't have them handy at the moment.  Also, Chris Baer of the = Hagley=20 Museum, whom I believe is on this list, is an outstanding resource of = PRR=20 information - perhaps he can help or provide some leads.  How about = the=20 Society's archives in Lewistown?  The Kalmbach Memorial Library in=20 Nashville (?) will research and copy articles for you for a nominal fee, = but=20 that one may be a little far fetched.  Good luck!
 
Bill Bigler - 4915
Big Flats NY
Modeling = PRR Renovo=20 &
     Williamsport WWII
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Greg Stone=20
Sent: Saturday, February 28, = 2004 12:00=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] PRR K4 = assignments

Does anyone have  a list of = which engine=20 houses K4s were assigned for any times between 1927 and = 1940-41?
In particular I am looking for K4s = assigned to=20 run the Williamsport Renovo divisions. I would most like to find = engines=20 assigned to Sunbury, Northumberland, Williamsport, Renovo or Emporium=20 roundhouses.(or anywhere in between).
If you have any of this = information I would=20 like the engine number(s), what engine house it = was assigned, and=20 the time period it was assigned there.
Thanks,
Greg Stone
PRRT&HS member focusing on = the Renovo=20 yards and the P&E 
------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C3FE00.74CF3EA0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR K4 assignments Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 14:24:04 -0500 Greg & List (again), I got to thinking about your question, which prompted me to dig out my = "Black Diamonds, Black Gold" books to check (long past the age of = depending on memory) and I was right. One has locomotive assignment = chart for the entire railroad for 1949, the other for 1945. In essence, = no K-4's were assigned to any of the enginehouses (or divisions) you = asked about. Actually they listed 3 assigned to the Buffalo Division, 2 = to Renovo Division in 1949. Virtually all the rest were New York, = Pittsburgh, or Eastern. Apparently, since K-4's were long distance = passenger engines that ran through across several divisions, they = weren't assigned to the enginehouses except at the beginning and ends of = long passenger runs. They would have made the entire run from = Harrisburg to Buffalo or Erie easily. I'm not sure about the Elmira = Branch, where a K-4 would have presumably run back and forth between = Canandaigua and Williamsport. Perhaps that was one of the ones assigned = to Renovo, as that's where it would have gone for major servicing and = heavy repairs/rebuilding. But I believe they used E-6's on the Elmira = Branch until dieselization started freeing up K-4's quite late in the = game (50's). Hopefully someone on this list can expand on my = conjecture! Bill ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Greg Stone=20 To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 12:00 PM Subject: [PRR] PRR K4 assignments Does anyone have a list of which engine houses K4s were assigned for = any times between 1927 and 1940-41? In particular I am looking for K4s assigned to run the Williamsport = Renovo divisions. I would most like to find engines assigned to Sunbury, = Northumberland, Williamsport, Renovo or Emporium roundhouses.(or = anywhere in between). If you have any of this information I would like the engine number(s), = what engine house it was assigned, and the time period it was assigned = there. Thanks, Greg Stone PRRT&HS member focusing on the Renovo yards and the P&E ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C3FE06.84E588C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Greg & List (again),
 
I got to thinking about your question, which = prompted me=20 to dig out my "Black Diamonds, Black Gold" books to check (long past the = age of=20 depending on memory) and I was right.  One has locomotive = assignment chart=20 for the entire railroad for 1949, the other for 1945.  In essence, = no K-4's=20 were assigned to any of the enginehouses (or divisions) you asked = about. =20 Actually they listed 3 assigned to the Buffalo Division, 2 to Renovo = Division in=20 1949.  Virtually all the rest were New York, Pittsburgh, or = Eastern. =20 Apparently, since K-4's were long distance passenger engines that ran = through=20 across several divisions, they weren't assigned to the enginehouses = except at=20 the beginning and ends of long passenger runs.  They would have = made the=20 entire run from Harrisburg to Buffalo or Erie easily.  I'm not sure = about=20 the Elmira Branch, where a K-4 would have presumably run back and forth = between=20 Canandaigua and Williamsport.  Perhaps that was one of the ones = assigned to=20 Renovo, as that's where it would have gone for major servicing and = heavy=20 repairs/rebuilding.  But I believe they used E-6's on the Elmira = Branch=20 until dieselization started freeing up K-4's quite late in the game=20 (50's).  Hopefully someone on this list can expand on my=20 conjecture!
 
Bill
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Greg Stone=20
Sent: Saturday, February 28, = 2004 12:00=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] PRR K4 = assignments

Does anyone have  a list of = which engine=20 houses K4s were assigned for any times between 1927 and = 1940-41?
In particular I am looking for K4s = assigned to=20 run the Williamsport Renovo divisions. I would most like to find = engines=20 assigned to Sunbury, Northumberland, Williamsport, Renovo or Emporium=20 roundhouses.(or anywhere in between).
If you have any of this = information I would=20 like the engine number(s), what engine house it = was assigned, and=20 the time period it was assigned there.
Thanks,
Greg Stone
PRRT&HS member focusing on = the Renovo=20 yards and the P&E 
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C3FE06.84E588C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:43:09 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: [PRR] smoke unit in BLI M1 Hello all: I have a friend who would like to put a smoke unit in a BLI M1 (and asked me to help). He contacted BLI and they suggested a Seuth #10, but said, "all wiring is your responsibility"... Anyone have any suggestions of how to wire this? Is there a way to wire it so it works on both DC and DCC (he has DC, I have DCC). Thanks for any advice, Jeff Warner --------------010008000504010506050403 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hello all:

I have a friend who would like to put a smoke unit in a BLI M1 (and
asked me to help).  He contacted BLI and they suggested a Seuth #10, but
said, "all wiring is your responsibility"...  Anyone have any
suggestions of how to wire this?  Is there a way to wire it so it works
on both DC and DCC (he has DC, I have DCC).

Thanks for any advice,

Jeff Warner
--------------010008000504010506050403-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 01:24:13 GMT Subject: [PRR] Jenks Blue From: Dominic Mazoch X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 01:27:24 GMT Subject: [PRR] Steam Engine lead. From: Dominic Mazoch X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" From: Dominic Mazoch Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 01:24:13 GMT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Jenks Blue I got this off the MoPac list. The DuPont name is Iron Blue. It is the color MP painted its diesels before they were bought by the UP. The MP went to this because of the two tone Eagle colors did not last in service. Also, any two tone PRR cars were not repainted in the Jenks Blue. Dominic Mazoch ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" From: Dominic Mazoch Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 01:27:24 GMT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Steam Engine lead. With the List info, and looking at my Lionels, I now understand the engine lead question. Thanks. Now, did the DD-1's have left hand lead, considering they had jack drives. Dominic Mazoch ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: [PRR] Wood Kit question Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:33:51 -0500 Evening, Putting together a Gloor-Kraft flat car kit. The instructions talk about drilling the bolster for the truck mounting screw. They do not offer any hints as to the type/size of the screw. I know the plastic kits use 2-56 most of the time. So, wood screw? and if so what size, or other type of screw? Any assistance appreciated. Thanks. Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C3FE42.9278E900 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

Evening,

 

Putting together a Gloor-Kraft flat car kit. The instructions talk about drilling the bolster for the truck mounting = screw. They do not offer any hints as to the type/size of the screw. I  know = the plastic kits use 2-56 most of the time. So, wood screw? and if so what = size, or other type of screw? Any assistance appreciated.

 

Thanks.

 

Tom Mahon

Merrimack, NH

 

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C3FE42.9278E900-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 20:14:33 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Wood Kit question From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 22:22:09 EST Subject: [PRR] Books of NRAB Decisions X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 46 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I've been looking for several of the printed volumes of the decisions of the National Railroad Adjustment Board. They stopped publishing the books in 1972 and released the decisions in some other format. I've just stumbled on a 10 year old message from a librarian at a government depository, offering his set of 177 volumes of the First Division Awards (1st Division was train service and engine service, basically, the BRT, BLE & BLF&E) for the postage only. I hope to find out Monday what happened to them. The 2nd, 3rd and 4th Divisions were much smaller and covered other different unions. Has anyone seen any of these books? Do they come up for sale anywhere? Does anyone know of a library or collector that might still have some? Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: WAMMP236@aol.com Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 09:19:26 EST Subject: [PRR] Pennsy 18 Roomette Sleepers Hello List Would anyone have any information on any company that may manufacture a car in "S" gauge that would come close to the Pennsy pre-war 18 roomette sleeper. Thanks Bill --part1_fb.50a87a7f.2d734eee_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Hello List
             Wou= ld anyone have any information on any company that may manufacture a car in=20= "S" gauge that would come close to the Pennsy pre-war 18 roomette sleeper.             &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;            =             &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;            =     Thanks
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;            =             &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;            =      Bill --part1_fb.50a87a7f.2d734eee_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 09:29:56 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: [PRR] Re: Wood Kit question X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out003.verizon.net from [68.160.164.217] at Sun, 29 Feb 2004 08:29:14 -0600 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Tom, What scale kit? Gloor makes O kits...do they make HO as well? In O I would use a 6-32 _machine_ screw if the truck bolster hole was a reasonable fit (did not require excessive enlarging). In HO maybe a 2-56 or even 4-40. I would recommennd a machine screw rather than a wood screw, which will allow adjusting the truck tightness without the screw getting loose from being backed out a bit. Drill the proper tap drill size or even a bit smaller, and start the thread with a tap if you have one. That gets the screw started more easily. If the screw finishes making its own thread you get a tighter fit. Steve Bartlett Tom Mahon wrote: Putting together a Gloor-Kraft flat car kit. The instructions talk about drilling the bolster for the truck mounting screw. They do not offer any hints as to the type/size of the screw. I know the plastic kits use 2-56 most of the time. So, wood screw? and if so what size, or other type of screw? Any assistance appreciated. Thanks. Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Prr1187@aol.com Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:04:31 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy 18 Roomette Sleepers X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 146 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bill, Laser Horizons produces S scale PRR car sides to be used in conjunction with AM shells. There are two types: replacement or overlay. Regards, Dennis Sautters Laser Horizons In a message dated 2/29/04 9:26:36 AM, WAMMP236@aol.com writes: << Hello List Would anyone have any information on any company that may manufacture a car in "S" gauge that would come close to the Pennsy pre-war 18 roomette sleeper. Thanks Bill >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: [PRR] Wood Kit question Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:19:01 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <4041F764.DB821CDA@verizon.net> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Thanks to all for the swift response and options. It is appreciated. Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Name That Tender! Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:31:04 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, I got my new collection of PRR Builders photos yesterday. This photo was just one of many tasty nuggets in it. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/Name_That_Tender.jpg The photo date is 10-9-41. It a pretty sweet photo of a GS gon as well. This tender has seen better days. Anyone want to hazard a guess what it is( Was)? Don't all reply to just me please! I will be listing a few of the duplicate photos starting tonight on Ebay..... Thank You, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 13:56:26 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Books of NRAB Decisions Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Greetings to Marty and the List: This sounds very much like a group of records that the Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum acquired a couple of years ago. ARMM is closed for the winter at the moment, but should be reopening soon with the arrival of spring. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. LAMAassoc@aol.com wrote: >I've been looking for several of the printed volumes of the decisions of the >National Railroad Adjustment Board. > >They stopped publishing the books in 1972 and released the decisions in some >other format. > >I've just stumbled on a 10 year old message from a librarian at a government >depository, offering his set of 177 volumes of the First Division Awards (1st >Division was train service and engine service, basically, the BRT, BLE & >BLF&E) for the postage only. I hope to find out Monday what happened to them. > >The 2nd, 3rd and 4th Divisions were much smaller and covered other different >unions. > >Has anyone seen any of these books? Do they come up for sale anywhere? Does >anyone know of a library or collector that might still have some? > >Regards, Marty > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 18:52:26 GMT Subject: [PRR] Williams Tower in the St. Louis Area. From: Dominic Mazoch X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" From: Dominic Mazoch Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 18:52:26 GMT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Williams Tower in the St. Louis Area. This is off the KCS List. There is a tower in the St. Louis Area called williams which the KCS crews. Question: Is it ex-PRR? Thanks, Dominic Mazoch ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:31:04 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Name That Tender! Hi All, I got my new collection of PRR Builders photos yesterday. This photo was just one of many tasty nuggets in it. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/Name_That_Tender.jpg The photo date is 10-9-41. It a pretty sweet photo of a GS gon as well. This tender has seen better days. Anyone want to hazard a guess what it is( Was)? Don't all reply to just me please! I will be listing a few of the duplicate photos starting tonight on Ebay..... Thank You, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 18:03:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Septa MU still marked "Pennsy" MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Greetings, Those of you living in the Philadelphia area may have seen this car. There's a ex PRR Pioneer III car this still has "PENNSYLVANIA" spelled out on the side of the car. I think the MU car may be 269 but I'm not sure. Anyone here know what the number of the car is? Thanks in advance, Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Identify these photos Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 19:37:03 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, Out of all of my new PRR Builders photos, I could not identify these 2 photos. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/identify_these_please.jpg They do not have the PRR "E" number on them anywhere. I doubt that the 2 are related to the same car. Can anyone hazard a guess on what car they belong to? Thank You, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 19:46:46 -0500 From: Charlie Cox Subject: [PRR] Civil War Engineers Hi, I have a family letter that states that my ggggreat-grandfather, John Stevens, was an fireman (engineer) for the P.R.R. on one of the first (Union) runs into the South during the Civil War. He was killed during the battle. I have found online that train engineers were not required to enlist in the war - this explain why he is not listed with the National Archives. I am looking for his burial. Does anyone know where engineers would have been buried? My thought is probably somewhere around Philippi. This battle involved troops from Ohio and he was from Cincinnati. Also is there a PRR roster for the Civil War or someone with a list of engineers during that time? thanks, Charlie Cox --------------030106030008000608050608 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi,
    I have a family letter that states that my ggggreat-grandfather, John Stevens, was an fireman (engineer) for the P.R.R. on one of the first (Union) runs into the South during the Civil War. He was killed during the battle. I have found online that train engineers were not required to enlist in the war - this explain why he is not listed with the National Archives.

I am looking for his burial. Does anyone know where engineers would have been buried? My thought is probably somewhere around Philippi. This battle involved troops from Ohio and he was from Cincinnati.

Also is there a PRR roster for the Civil War or someone with a list of engineers during that time?

thanks,
Charlie Cox
 --------------030106030008000608050608-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: [PRR] Pre-1920 locomotive photographs Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 20:12:35 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, I am aware of a couple of PRR locomotive photo lists on the internet, and often look on the northeast rails site, but am curious if anyone is aware of any sites with photos of pre-1920 PRR power, especially used by not fully consolidated subsidiaries like the Vandalia line. There's just enough on the northeast rails site to whet one's appetite for more! Gregg Mahlkov PRRT&HS #7418 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRPaul@aol.com Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 20:21:25 EST Subject: [PRR] Railroad Prototype Modelers-Valley Forge X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 125 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Railroad Prototype Modelers-Valley Forge March 26-28, 2004 Desmond Hotel Malvern, PA Please visit our website, www.phillynmra.org for a revised timetable, updated clinics list and vendors list, as well as hotel and registration information. Be advised that March 15 is the last day to mail your registration. Walk in registration will be available starting at 11 a.m on Friday and 8 a.m. on Saturday. Paul Backenstose ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "L. Heintz" Subject: [PRR] Conductors punch Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 20:37:38 -0500 I have seen a few PRR conductors punches on ebay all made by Allen,Lane = & Scott. They all have been cited as having a different number on them. Is this number assigned to the punch pattern ?? By PRR ?? Does this also identify the conductor using the punch ?? Is all this for audit purposes or was counterfeiting a problem ?? Lynn ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3FF03.DEED8A40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
I have seen a few PRR conductors = punches on ebay=20 all made by Allen,Lane & Scott.  They all have been cited as = having a=20 different number on them.
Is this number assigned to the punch = pattern=20 ??   By PRR ??
Does this also identify the conductor = using the=20 punch ??
Is all this for audit purposes or was=20 counterfeiting a problem ??
 
Lynn
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3FF03.DEED8A40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 21:02:37 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Name That Tender! In a message dated 2/29/2004 10:39:36 AM Mountain Standard Time, billlane@comcast.net writes: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/Name_That_Tender.jpg Can't tell as the tender wasn't treated very tenderly. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1078106557 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 2/29/2004 10:39:36 AM Mountain Standard Time, billla= ne@comcast.net writes:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/Name_That_T= ender.jpg
 
Can't tell as the tender wasn't treated very tenderly.
Evan Leisey
RCT&HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phi= la.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1078106557-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 21:16:29 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Civil War Engineers X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 46 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In a message dated 2/29/04 7:08:02 PM, charlie-cox@cinci.rr.com writes: << I have a family letter that states that my ggggreat-grandfather,=20 John Stevens, was an fireman (engineer) for the P.R.R. on one of the=20 first (Union) runs into the South during the Civil War. He was killed=20 during the battle. I have found online that train engineers were not=20 required to enlist in the war - this explain why he is not listed with=20 the National Archives. I am looking for his burial. Does anyone know where engineers would have=20 been buried? My thought is probably somewhere around Philippi. This=20 battle involved troops from Ohio and he was from Cincinnati. >> ********** Can't answer your questions directly but did find some interesting=20 correspondence about the draft of railroad employees. In August, 1862, Thos.= A. Scott,=20 VP-PRR (there was also a Thomas A, Scott who was acting Secretary of War but= =20 don't know if they were the same) asked that all railroad employees be exemp= t=20 from the draft. He sent the Secretary of War a draft letter and I've not bee= n=20 able to determine if it was actually adopted. The actual correspondence follow: "PITTSBURG, PA., August 6, 1862. Hon. E. M. STANTON,=20 Secretary of War, Washington, D.C.: Can anything be done by the Government to relieve railway employ=E9s from dr= aft=20 in the same manner as telegraph officers? The organization of principal=20 lines, all of which have been declared under Government control, will be ser= iously=20 impaired, if not entirely disorganized, unless the Government will consider=20 employ=E9s exempt from draft. Please answer. THOS. A. SCOTT,=20 Vice-President Pennsylvania Railroad. ****************** WAR DEPARTMENT, Washington, D.C., August 6, 1862. THOMAS A. SCOTT, Esq., Pittsburg: An order similar in principle to that in respect to railroads might be made=20 for those on which Government transportation is carried on, but it ought to=20= be=20 carefully guarded, as too many persons would seek its shelter. I would like=20= to=20 have your notion in the form of an order, and will endeavor to make one that= =20 may meet the case. Adams Express Company encouraged their employ=E9s to enli= st=20 in the service, and I think any order in respect to railroads ought to be as= =20 limited to actual necessity, or it may provoke hostility in the public mind. EDWIN M. STANTON,=20 Secretary of War. ***************** PITTSBURG, PA., August 6, 1862. E. S. SANFORD:=20 The telegraph is a very good thing, but you cannot carry men or munitions of= =20 war. Does not the Secretary think railways as essential to aid prosecuting t= he=20 war as telegraphs, and if so must we not have to work them experts--men of=20 experience and detail--and if so should not this class of men be exempt? I=20 assure you this question is assuming a serious aspect. I hope the Secretary=20= will=20 not consider that I am, like newspapers, assuming to advise. G. W. CASS.=20 ****************** WAR DEPARTMENT, Washington City, D.C., August 6, 1862. GEORGE W. CASS, Esq., Pittsburg:I have for some days been considering the question of military=20 service as to railroad employ=E9s, and recognize the justice of the principl= e so far=20 as it is applicable to them equally as to telegraph operators, provided it=20 can be properly limited. Your views on the subject would be thankfully recei= ved,=20 for I am anxious to be enlightened upon this as upon every other official=20 duty. The principle that exempts telegraph operators is that they serve the=20 Government in a special art known to but few persons, whose places cannot be= =20 supplied. The same principle might justly extend to engineers of locomotives= ,=20 conductors, and brakesmen, but how much further it should go is a point of=20 difficulty on which I would be glad to be informed. EDWIN M. STANTON,=20 Secretary of War. ****************** WASHINGTON, D.C., August 6, 1862. THOMAS A. SCOTT,=20 Vice-President Railroad Company, Pittsburg: Telegraph operators have already been exempted from draft. There is strong=20 opposition to exempting railroad employ=E9s, and I do not know what will be=20= the=20 decision. H. W. HALLECK,=20 General-in-Chief. **************** CHICAGO, August 7, 1862. Hon. E. M. STANTON:=20 As the draft for soldiers is calculated to seriously embarrass the operation= s=20 of the various railroads of the country by obstructing the services of=20 engineers and machinists, which are indispensable, and looking to the vast=20 importance of maintaining without interruption the facilities of the transpo= rtation,=20 not only necessary to the military operations of the Government, but the=20 commerce of the country, we respectfully ask your early consideration of ext= ending an=20 exemption of engineers, machinists, and other experts employed by railroads=20 against draft, which can by no possibility be replaced without months of=20 previous instruction. JAS. ROBB,=20 Receiver Saint Louis, Alton and Chicago Railroad. G. L. DUNLAP,=20 Superintendent Chicago and Northwestern Railroad. MAHONE D. OGDEN,=20 President Chicago and Milwaukee Railroad. E. B. TALCOTT,=20 General Superintendent Galena and Chicago Railroad. C. G. HAMMOND,=20 Gen. Sup. Chicago, Burlington and Quincy Railroad, Chicago, Ill. ************* SARATOGA, N. Y., August 8, 1862. (Received 5.30 p.m.) Hon. EDWIN M. STANTON,=20 Secretary of War, Washington, D.C.: As we find a good deal of excitement among our employes on the subject of=20 drafting, will you please inform me if locomotive engineers, firemen, and=20 conductors who are essential to the running of trains, and of course transpo= rtation=20 of the mail, are subject to draft? Please answer to this place. SAML. SLOAN,=20 President Hudson River Railroad Company. ******************* WAR DEPARTMENT, Washington, August 8, 1862--9.55 p.m. SAMUEL SLOAN, Esq., President Hudson River Railroad, Saratoga, N. Y.: Locomotive engineers will be exempt on the same principle with telegraph=20 operators; no others. By order of the Secretary of War: C. P. BUCKINGHAM,=20 Brigadier-General and Assistant Adjutant-General. **************** PITTSBURG, PA., August 8, 1862. Hon. E. M. STANTON:=20 I wrote you last night from Steubenville, but failed to get it in the mail.=20 It will not reach you before Saturday evening or Sunday morning. The followi= ng=20 form of order, it is believed, will effectually guard all interests and be=20 productive of great good. I submitted it to President Clement, of Cincinnati= ;=20 T.L. Jewett, president Steubenville and Indiana, and J. N. McCullough, presi= dent=20 Cleveland road, all of whom approve and desire speedy action, if it meets yo= ur=20 approval. In my letter you will find some reasons why the necessity for=20 action is pressing: Whereas the President of the United States has been authorized by an act of=20 Congress to take possession of any or all the railways of the country, and s= o=20 control their facilities and employes as might to him seem needful to the=20 interest of the Government; and as it is now important to the Government and= to the=20 general business interests of the country that the organization of all=20 railway companies should be kept in the highest state of efficiency for serv= ice, it=20 is Ordered: 1. That all the officers, agents, engineers, firemen, mechanics, conductors,= =20 brake-men, and other employes that may have been in the service of the=20 respective railway companies for at least three months previous to the date=20= of the=20 last call of the President for troops, the same are hereby exempted from=20 military duty so long as they may remain in such service; provided that all=20= agents=20 and employes between the ages of eighteen and forty-five thus exempted from=20= the=20 provision of the laws authorizing drafting shall enroll themselves, under th= e=20 military laws of the Government, and drill at least once each week, and shal= l=20 in all cases of emergency be subject to military duty in the field when so=20 ordered by the President. 2. Organizations under the order will be furnished arms and accouterments fo= r=20 drilling purposes, but will not be entitled to pay unless called into field=20 for active service. 3. All employes of railway companies that may refuse or neglect to enroll=20 themselves into military organizations, as set forth in this order, within s= ixty=20 days from the date thereof, and all persons that may enter the service of an= y=20 railway company after the date of this order, shall not be deemed or=20 considered as being exempt from military duties. Very respectfully, THOS. A. SCOTT.=20 ***********" Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 21:50:48 -0500 From: Charlie Cox Subject: Re: [PRR] Civil War Engineers This is good to know. I didn't realize that this wasn't proposed until a year after the war started. thanks, Charlie LAMAassoc@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 2/29/04 7:08:02 PM, charlie-cox@cinci.rr.com writes: > ><< I have a family letter that states that my ggggreat-grandfather, >John Stevens, was an fireman (engineer) for the P.R.R. on one of the >first (Union) runs into the South during the Civil War. He was killed >during the battle. I have found online that train engineers were not >required to enlist in the war - this explain why he is not listed with >the National Archives. > >I am looking for his burial. Does anyone know where engineers would have >been buried? My thought is probably somewhere around Philippi. This >battle involved troops from Ohio and he was from Cincinnati. >> > >********** > >Can't answer your questions directly but did find some interesting >correspondence about the draft of railroad employees. In August, 1862, Thos. A. Scott, >VP-PRR (there was also a Thomas A, Scott who was acting Secretary of War but >don't know if they were the same) asked that all railroad employees be exempt >from the draft. He sent the Secretary of War a draft letter and I've not been >able to determine if it was actually adopted. >The actual correspondence follow: > >"PITTSBURG, PA., August 6, 1862. > Hon. E. M. STANTON, >Secretary of War, Washington, D.C.: >Can anything be done by the Government to relieve railway employés from draft >in the same manner as telegraph officers? The organization of principal >lines, all of which have been declared under Government control, will be seriously >impaired, if not entirely disorganized, unless the Government will consider >employés exempt from draft. Please answer. > THOS. A. SCOTT, >Vice-President Pennsylvania Railroad. >****************** >WAR DEPARTMENT, >Washington, D.C., August 6, 1862. > THOMAS A. SCOTT, Esq., >Pittsburg: >An order similar in principle to that in respect to railroads might be made >for those on which Government transportation is carried on, but it ought to be >carefully guarded, as too many persons would seek its shelter. I would like to >have your notion in the form of an order, and will endeavor to make one that >may meet the case. Adams Express Company encouraged their employés to enlist >in the service, and I think any order in respect to railroads ought to be as >limited to actual necessity, or it may provoke hostility in the public mind. > EDWIN M. STANTON, >Secretary of War. >***************** >PITTSBURG, PA., August 6, 1862. > E. S. SANFORD: >The telegraph is a very good thing, but you cannot carry men or munitions of >war. Does not the Secretary think railways as essential to aid prosecuting the >war as telegraphs, and if so must we not have to work them experts--men of >experience and detail--and if so should not this class of men be exempt? I >assure you this question is assuming a serious aspect. I hope the Secretary will >not consider that I am, like newspapers, assuming to advise. > G. W. CASS. >****************** >WAR DEPARTMENT, >Washington City, D.C., August 6, 1862. > GEORGE W. CASS, Esq., >Pittsburg:I have for some days been considering the question of military >service as to railroad employés, and recognize the justice of the principle so far >as it is applicable to them equally as to telegraph operators, provided it >can be properly limited. Your views on the subject would be thankfully received, >for I am anxious to be enlightened upon this as upon every other official >duty. The principle that exempts telegraph operators is that they serve the >Government in a special art known to but few persons, whose places cannot be >supplied. The same principle might justly extend to engineers of locomotives, >conductors, and brakesmen, but how much further it should go is a point of >difficulty on which I would be glad to be informed. > EDWIN M. STANTON, >Secretary of War. >****************** >WASHINGTON, D.C., August 6, 1862. > THOMAS A. SCOTT, >Vice-President Railroad Company, Pittsburg: >Telegraph operators have already been exempted from draft. There is strong >opposition to exempting railroad employés, and I do not know what will be the >decision. > H. W. HALLECK, >General-in-Chief. > >**************** >CHICAGO, August 7, 1862. > Hon. E. M. STANTON: >As the draft for soldiers is calculated to seriously embarrass the operations >of the various railroads of the country by obstructing the services of >engineers and machinists, which are indispensable, and looking to the vast >importance of maintaining without interruption the facilities of the transportation, >not only necessary to the military operations of the Government, but the >commerce of the country, we respectfully ask your early consideration of extending an >exemption of engineers, machinists, and other experts employed by railroads >against draft, which can by no possibility be replaced without months of >previous instruction. > JAS. ROBB, >Receiver Saint Louis, Alton and Chicago Railroad. > G. L. DUNLAP, >Superintendent Chicago and Northwestern Railroad. MAHONE D. OGDEN, >President Chicago and Milwaukee Railroad. > E. B. TALCOTT, >General Superintendent Galena and Chicago Railroad. > C. G. HAMMOND, >Gen. Sup. Chicago, Burlington and Quincy Railroad, Chicago, Ill. >************* >SARATOGA, N. Y., August 8, 1862. >(Received 5.30 p.m.) > Hon. EDWIN M. STANTON, >Secretary of War, Washington, D.C.: >As we find a good deal of excitement among our employes on the subject of >drafting, will you please inform me if locomotive engineers, firemen, and >conductors who are essential to the running of trains, and of course transportation >of the mail, are subject to draft? Please answer to this place. > SAML. SLOAN, >President Hudson River Railroad Company. >******************* >WAR DEPARTMENT, >Washington, August 8, 1862--9.55 p.m. > SAMUEL SLOAN, Esq., >President Hudson River Railroad, Saratoga, N. Y.: >Locomotive engineers will be exempt on the same principle with telegraph >operators; no others. >By order of the Secretary of War: > C. P. BUCKINGHAM, >Brigadier-General and Assistant Adjutant-General. >**************** >PITTSBURG, PA., August 8, 1862. > Hon. E. M. STANTON: >I wrote you last night from Steubenville, but failed to get it in the mail. >It will not reach you before Saturday evening or Sunday morning. The following >form of order, it is believed, will effectually guard all interests and be >productive of great good. I submitted it to President Clement, of Cincinnati; >T.L. Jewett, president Steubenville and Indiana, and J. N. McCullough, president >Cleveland road, all of whom approve and desire speedy action, if it meets your >approval. In my letter you will find some reasons why the necessity for >action is pressing: >Whereas the President of the United States has been authorized by an act of >Congress to take possession of any or all the railways of the country, and so >control their facilities and employes as might to him seem needful to the >interest of the Government; and as it is now important to the Government and to the >general business interests of the country that the organization of all >railway companies should be kept in the highest state of efficiency for service, it >is Ordered: >1. That all the officers, agents, engineers, firemen, mechanics, conductors, >brake-men, and other employes that may have been in the service of the >respective railway companies for at least three months previous to the date of the >last call of the President for troops, the same are hereby exempted from >military duty so long as they may remain in such service; provided that all agents >and employes between the ages of eighteen and forty-five thus exempted from the >provision of the laws authorizing drafting shall enroll themselves, under the >military laws of the Government, and drill at least once each week, and shall >in all cases of emergency be subject to military duty in the field when so >ordered by the President. >2. Organizations under the order will be furnished arms and accouterments for >drilling purposes, but will not be entitled to pay unless called into field >for active service. >3. All employes of railway companies that may refuse or neglect to enroll >themselves into military organizations, as set forth in this order, within sixty >days from the date thereof, and all persons that may enter the service of any >railway company after the date of this order, shall not be deemed or >considered as being exempt from military duties. >Very respectfully, > THOS. A. SCOTT. >***********" > >Regards, Marty > > > --------------090002060802030401080800 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii This is good to know. I didn't realize that this wasn't proposed until a year after the war started.

thanks,
Charlie

LAMAassoc@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 2/29/04 7:08:02 PM, charlie-cox@cinci.rr.com writes:

<< I have a family letter that states that my ggggreat-grandfather, 
John Stevens, was an fireman (engineer) for the P.R.R. on one of the 
first (Union) runs into the South during the Civil War. He was killed 
during the battle. I have found online that train engineers were not 
required to enlist in the war - this explain why he is not listed with 
the National Archives.

I am looking for his burial. Does anyone know where engineers would have 
been buried? My thought is probably somewhere around Philippi. This 
battle involved troops from Ohio and he was from Cincinnati. >>

**********

Can't answer your questions directly but did find some interesting 
correspondence about the draft of railroad employees. In August, 1862, Thos. A. Scott, 
VP-PRR (there was also a Thomas A, Scott who was acting Secretary of War but 
don't know if they were the same) asked that all railroad employees be exempt 
from the draft. He sent the Secretary of War a draft letter and I've not been 
able to determine if it was actually adopted.
The actual correspondence follow:

"PITTSBURG, PA., August 6, 1862.
 Hon. E. M. STANTON, 
Secretary of War, Washington, D.C.:
Can anything be done by the Government to relieve railway employés from draft 
in the same manner as telegraph officers? The organization of principal 
lines, all of which have been declared under Government control, will be seriously 
impaired, if not entirely disorganized, unless the Government will consider 
employés exempt from draft. Please answer.
 THOS. A. SCOTT, 
Vice-President Pennsylvania Railroad.
******************
WAR DEPARTMENT,
Washington, D.C., August 6, 1862.
 THOMAS A. SCOTT,  Esq.,
Pittsburg:
An order similar in principle to that in respect to railroads might be made 
for those on which Government transportation is carried on, but it ought to be 
carefully guarded, as too many persons would seek its shelter. I would like to 
have your notion in the form of an order, and will endeavor to make one that 
may meet the case. Adams Express Company encouraged their employés to enlist 
in the service, and I think any order in respect to railroads ought to be as 
limited to actual necessity, or it may provoke hostility in the public mind.
 EDWIN M. STANTON, 
Secretary of War.
*****************
PITTSBURG, PA., August 6, 1862.
 E. S. SANFORD: 
The telegraph is a very good thing, but you cannot carry men or munitions of 
war. Does not the Secretary think railways as essential to aid prosecuting the 
war as telegraphs, and if so must we not have to work them experts--men of 
experience and detail--and if so should not this class of men be exempt? I 
assure you this question is assuming a serious aspect. I hope the Secretary will 
not consider that I am, like newspapers, assuming to advise.
 G. W. CASS. 
******************
WAR DEPARTMENT,
Washington City, D.C., August 6, 1862.
 GEORGE W. CASS,  Esq.,
Pittsburg:I have for some days been considering the question of military 
service as to railroad employés, and recognize the justice of the principle so far 
as it is applicable to them equally as to telegraph operators, provided it 
can be properly limited. Your views on the subject would be thankfully received, 
for I am anxious to be enlightened upon this as upon every other official 
duty. The principle that exempts telegraph operators is that they serve the 
Government in a special art known to but few persons, whose places cannot be 
supplied. The same principle might justly extend to engineers of locomotives, 
conductors, and brakesmen, but how much further it should go is a point of 
difficulty on which I would be glad to be informed.
 EDWIN M. STANTON, 
Secretary of War.
******************
WASHINGTON, D.C., August 6, 1862.
 THOMAS A. SCOTT, 
Vice-President Railroad Company, Pittsburg:
Telegraph operators have already been exempted from draft. There is strong 
opposition to exempting railroad employés, and I do not know what will be the 
decision.
 H. W. HALLECK, 
General-in-Chief.

****************
CHICAGO, August 7, 1862.
 Hon. E. M. STANTON: 
As the draft for soldiers is calculated to seriously embarrass the operations 
of the various railroads of the country by obstructing the services of 
engineers and machinists, which are indispensable, and looking to the vast 
importance of maintaining without interruption the facilities of the transportation, 
not only necessary to the military operations of the Government, but the 
commerce of the country, we respectfully ask your early consideration of extending an 
exemption of engineers, machinists, and other experts employed by railroads 
against draft, which can by no possibility be replaced without months of 
previous instruction.
 JAS. ROBB, 
Receiver Saint Louis, Alton and Chicago Railroad.
 G. L. DUNLAP, 
Superintendent Chicago and Northwestern Railroad. MAHONE D. OGDEN, 
President Chicago and Milwaukee Railroad.
 E. B. TALCOTT, 
General Superintendent Galena and Chicago Railroad.
 C. G. HAMMOND, 
Gen. Sup. Chicago, Burlington and Quincy Railroad, Chicago, Ill.
*************
SARATOGA, N. Y., August 8, 1862.
(Received 5.30 p.m.)
 Hon. EDWIN M. STANTON, 
Secretary of War, Washington, D.C.:
As we find a good deal of excitement among our employes on the subject of 
drafting, will you please inform me if locomotive engineers, firemen, and 
conductors who are essential to the running of trains, and of course transportation 
of the mail, are subject to draft? Please answer to this place.
 SAML. SLOAN, 
President Hudson River Railroad Company.
*******************
WAR DEPARTMENT,
Washington, August 8, 1862--9.55 p.m.
 SAMUEL SLOAN,  Esq.,
President Hudson River Railroad, Saratoga, N. Y.:
Locomotive engineers will be exempt on the same principle with telegraph 
operators; no others.
By order of the Secretary of War:
 C. P. BUCKINGHAM, 
Brigadier-General and Assistant Adjutant-General.
****************
PITTSBURG, PA., August 8, 1862.
 Hon. E. M. STANTON: 
I wrote you last night from Steubenville, but failed to get it in the mail. 
It will not reach you before Saturday evening or Sunday morning. The following 
form of order, it is believed, will effectually guard all interests and be 
productive of great good. I submitted it to President Clement, of Cincinnati; 
T.L. Jewett, president Steubenville and Indiana, and J. N. McCullough, president 
Cleveland road, all of whom approve and desire speedy action, if it meets your 
approval. In my letter you will find some reasons why the necessity for 
action is pressing:
Whereas the President of the United States has been authorized by an act of 
Congress to take possession of any or all the railways of the country, and so 
control their facilities and employes as might to him seem needful to the 
interest of the Government; and as it is now important to the Government and to the 
general business interests of the country that the organization of all 
railway companies should be kept in the highest state of efficiency for service, it 
is Ordered:
1. That all the officers, agents, engineers, firemen, mechanics, conductors, 
brake-men, and other employes that may have been in the service of the 
respective railway companies for at least three months previous to the date of the 
last call of the President for troops, the same are hereby exempted from 
military duty so long as they may remain in such service; provided that all agents 
and employes between the ages of eighteen and forty-five thus exempted from the 
provision of the laws authorizing drafting shall enroll themselves, under the 
military laws of the Government, and drill at least once each week, and shall 
in all cases of emergency be subject to military duty in the field when so 
ordered by the President.
2. Organizations under the order will be furnished arms and accouterments for 
drilling purposes, but will not be entitled to pay unless called into field 
for active service.
3. All employes of railway companies that may refuse or neglect to enroll 
themselves into military organizations, as set forth in this order, within sixty 
days from the date thereof, and all persons that may enter the service of any 
railway company after the date of this order, shall not be deemed or 
considered as being exempt from military duties.
Very respectfully,
 THOS. A. SCOTT. 
***********"

Regards, Marty
--------------090002060802030401080800-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 19:37:03 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Identify these photos Hi All, Out of all of my new PRR Builders photos, I could not identify these 2 photos. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/identify_these_please.jpg They do not have the PRR "E" number on them anywhere. I doubt that the 2 are related to the same car. Can anyone hazard a guess on what car they belong to? Thank You, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 19:02:27 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Williams Tower in the St. Louis Area. From: AdamCKach@aol.com Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 22:21:37 EST Subject: [PRR] FOR SALE PRR N Scale 628s, MT Stock (3/1/04) Hey folks, I have a few Pennsylvania N Scale items for sale. In parentheses is the price I paid (and in all reality would like to recover) and after the dash is the retail. If the items don't sell within a few days, I will look to OBOs. Please keep all contacting off-message list. You can reach me at AdamCKach@aol.com. MT #108042 PRR 3-pack 100 Ton 3-Bay Hoppers NEW SEALED UNOPENED (SELL FOR $35.00 - [$45.60 LIST]) Atlas #54104 PRR C-628 #6302 NEW UNUSED (never taken out of box) DCC Equipped (SELL FOR $94.95 - [$134.95 LIST]) Atlas #54105 PRR C-628 #6305 NEW UNUSED (never taken out of box) DCC Equipped (SELL FOR $94.95 - [$134.95 LIST]) Shipping vis USPS will depend on the item and if you want insurance. However, you will pay EXACT costs (no inflations or 'handling charges' here). $3.95 will apply to single cars and engines, if you opt for no insurance. Insurance will be based on the MSRP of the item. My shipping zip code will be 18651. You can calculate your cost by going to usps.com and using my Zip code along with the weights (every package will be priced at 1 point since 0 ounces to 1 pound is the same cost and that way I can ensure the correct cost). There you can also select insurance. Combined items will have slightly higher shipping costs due to higher insured value and greater weight. I will quote you a cost, but it will always be the exact cost that the USPS charges. Finally, if you OBO after a few days, PLEASE keep them respectable. I am looking to recover the prices I paid, and all prices paid were at reputable hobby stores giving between 20 and 30 percent discounts on MSRP. WIth this in mine, naturally my asking price is the same. Payment will be by Money Order only. I prefer USPS money orders, but I will also accept bank or credit union orders. I have a digital camera so I can take photos of any items you may want/be interested in so you can rest assured I am trusted. Moreover, my eBay account has over 100 positives and no negatives. I can be trustred. :) I DO NOT accept PayPal because their fees take a significant portion from the selling price. If you absolutely needed to use PayPal, I will - but I will ask for an additional fee to cover their fees. In the end, it's most beneficial to you and me if money orders are used - you pay less especially. IF INTERESTED - PLEASE PUT 'PENNSYLVANIA N SCALE ITEMS' IN THE SUBJECT LINE. I want to be sure my e-mail filter doesn't lose any e-mails. Thank you. Adam AdamCKach@aol.com --part1_138.2bc5c7b3.2d740641_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Hey folks,

I have a few Pennsylvania N Scale items for sale.  In parentheses is th= e price I paid (and in all reality would like to recover) and after the dash= is the retail.  If the items don't sell within a few days, I will look= to OBOs.  Please keep all contacting off-message list.  You can r= each me at AdamCKach@aol.com.

MT #108042 PRR 3-pack 100 Ton 3-Bay Hoppers NEW SEALED UNOPENED (SELL FOR $3= 5.00 - [$45.60 LIST])
Atlas #54104 PRR C-628 #6302 NEW UNUSED (never taken out of box) DCC Equippe= d (SELL FOR $94.95 - [$134.95 LIST])
Atlas #54105 PRR C-628 #6305 NEW UNUSED (never taken out of box) DCC Equippe= d (SELL FOR $94.95 - [$134.95 LIST])

Shipping vis USPS will depend on the item and if you want insurance.  H= owever, you will pay EXACT costs (no inflations or 'handling charges' here).=   $3.95 will apply to single cars and engines, if you opt for no insura= nce.  Insurance will be based on the MSRP of the item.  My shippin= g zip code will be 18651.  You can calculate your cost by going to usps= .com and using my Zip code along with the weights (every package will be pri= ced at 1 point since 0 ounces to 1 pound is the same cost and that way I can= ensure the correct cost).  There you can also select insurance.

Combined items will have slightly higher shipping costs due to higher insure= d value and greater weight.  I will quote you a cost, but it will alway= s be the exact cost that the USPS charges.

Finally, if you OBO after a few days, PLEASE keep them respectable.  I=20= am looking to recover the prices I paid, and all prices paid were at reputab= le hobby stores giving between 20 and 30 percent discounts on MSRP.  WI= th this in mine, naturally my asking price is the same.

Payment will be by Money Order only.  I prefer USPS money orders, but I= will also accept bank or credit union orders.  I have a digital camera= so I can take photos of any items you may want/be interested in so you can=20= rest assured I am trusted.  Moreover, my eBay account has over 100 posi= tives and no negatives.  I can be trustred.  :)  I DO NOT acc= ept PayPal because their fees take a significant portion from the selling pr= ice.  If you absolutely needed to use PayPal, I will - but I will ask f= or an additional fee to cover their fees.  In the end, it's most benefi= cial to you and me if money orders are used - you pay less especially.

IF INTERESTED - PLEASE PUT 'PENNSYLVANIA N SCALE ITEMS' IN THE SUBJECT LINE.=   I want to be sure my e-mail filter doesn't lose any e-mails.

Thank you.

Adam
AdamCKach@aol.com --part1_138.2bc5c7b3.2d740641_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Williams Tower in the St. Louis Area. Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 22:30:35 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Guys, the KCS runs into E. St. Louis, not St. Louis. it operates the former Alton-GM&O from E. St. Louis to Kansas City and crosses the Mississippi upriver at Louisiana, MO. Don't know of any Williams tower on the PRR as I thought it had to go through the TRRA or the A&S to connect with the old Alton. Gregg mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert netzlof" To: "Dominic Mazoch" ; ; ; ; Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 10:02 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Williams Tower in the St. Louis Area. > --- Dominic Mazoch wrote: > > > > There is a tower in the St. Louis Area called williams which the > > KCS crews. > > > > Question: Is it ex-PRR? > > Is the tower on the Missouri side of the river, or the Illinois side? > If the former, then I doubt it would have been PRR since PRR had > access to St. Louis only via the Terminal RR Association tracks and > facilities. > > Or is that mistaken? > > ===== > Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Civil War Engineers Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 22:50:14 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gents, After talking checking with my father on some quick facts. LAMAassoc@aol.com wrote: In August, 1862, Thos. A. Scott, VP-PRR (there was also a Thomas A, Scott who was acting Secretary of War but don't know if they were the same) asked that all railroad employees be exempt from the draft. T.A. Scott was appointed Assistant Secretary of War by Simon Cameron. During this time, not the entire war, Mr. Scott was still serving as VP of the PRR and kept his best interests in the Railroad. Oddly enough Simon Cameron was also President of the Northern Central Railway. I could go on about the relationship of these two Gentelmen and thier role in the Civil War but most of you will be reading it in the next year or so in the Keystone if my father finishes collecting more photos. One final tidbit of useful information. T.A. Scott had a young telegrapher who was 17 at the time. He later made a good name for himself. He was Andrew Carniegie. Best Regards, John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Wood Kit question Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:40:21 -0500 Hi Tom, Assuming your talking about HO scale, I'd recommend using a 2-56 machine screw. If you're using trucks with a large hole like Athearn use a piece of tubing around the screw just long enough so you can tighten the screw and still have enough play in the trucks. I've always used the top of a Kadee coupler box and cut the tube off of it as the diameter is perfect and I seem have a bunch of unused Kadee boxes lying around. On the rare car that rides way too low, the entire box top can be used providing a built in washer! Rob -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Tom Mahon Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 9:34 PM To: PRR Talk Subject: [PRR] Wood Kit question Evening, Putting together a Gloor-Kraft flat car kit. The instructions talk about drilling the bolster for the truck mounting screw. They do not offer any hints as to the type/size of the screw. I know the plastic kits use 2-56 most of the time. So, wood screw? and if so what size, or other type of screw? Any assistance appreciated. Thanks. Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C3FF1D.65797920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Hi=20 Tom,
 
Assuming your talking about HO scale,  I'd recommend using = a 2-56=20 machine screw.  If you're using trucks with a large hole like = Athearn use a=20 piece of tubing around the screw just long enough so you can tighten the = screw=20 and still have enough play in the trucks.  I've always used the top = of a=20 Kadee coupler box and cut the tube off of it as the diameter is perfect = and I=20 seem have a bunch of unused Kadee boxes lying around.  On the=20 rare car that rides way too low, the entire box top can be used = providing a=20 built in washer! 
 
Rob 
-----Original Message-----
From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Tom = Mahon
Sent:=20 Saturday, February 28, 2004 9:34 PM
To: PRR = Talk
Subject:=20 [PRR] Wood Kit question

Evening,

 

Putting together a = Gloor-Kraft=20 flat car kit. The instructions talk about drilling the bolster for the = truck=20 mounting screw. They do not offer any hints as to the type/size of the = screw.=20 I  know the plastic kits use 2-56 most of the time. So, wood = screw? and=20 if so what size, or other type of screw? Any assistance=20 appreciated.

 

Thanks.

 

Tom = Mahon

Merrimack,=20 NH

 

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C3FF1D.65797920-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 21:17:19 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Civil War Engineers