From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: [PRR] BLI M1b: My View Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 01:22:56 -0600 A couple of months ago, after hearing someone else's Soundtraxx engine = which I was just finishing, my wife, bless her heart, said, "We ought to = have one with sound." My Momma raised no fools, and I instantly leaped = at this opportunity. Ten minutes later my order was in. My 6704 arrived today, and what follows are my observations. No = additional comments on the paint; the lettering is crisp and will show = thru the weathering. The engine runs extremely well on my Digitrax DCC; = the chuff coodinates well with the speed and power required. I found = that about 30% volume is about right for my 13 x 18 foot room. However, = I found two discrepancies: the bell doesn't work and the only = background noise is either the random blowdown or pop off--I can't tell = which. I am missing the "rushing water"/"steam hiss" and air pump = sounds. I also tested for these sounds on DC--no luck. I will be = talking to BLI on Monday. I also will have to get my 1998 Digitrax = DCS100 upgraded so the higher numbered functions can be accessed. A = test on my 180 deg 30 inch radius curve on a 2% grade reveiled 13 cars = is the limit. That is without lube on the valve gear and rods (they = have to be painted first); all cars were 40 ft weighted to NMRA = recommended practice, and all have Kadee trucks. I will be adding = additional weight behind the motor as Andy did. Also I don't think the = weight in the boiler is lead, but I haven't disassembled the engine. = Replacing that weight with one cast in lead should provide a significant = improvement. Without the vast vistas of a club layout (and here in = Northwest Florida we trade no snow for no basement), I will be happy at = 16 or 17 cars. =20 I ran 6704 around and stopped next to my very much modified Gem M1b for = a 1 to 1 visual comparison. The first thing I noticed was the bell. = Nobody does it right. Precision Scale 3155 is the only correct bell I = have seen on or off a HO model for the H/I/K/L/M classes. Before = weathering, the parting line along the boiler top will have to be = smoothed up. Three fairly noticeable lines are missing, but easily = added: the short steam supply line for the generator out the right side = of the steam dome into the boiler jacket, the continuation of this line = out from under the boiler jacket and across the smokebox to the = generator, and the generator exhaust around to the rear of the stack. = Whether to cast details as part of the boiler or attach them separately = was a tradeoff resulting in pros and cons. Pro - The small pipes and = conduits, such as the air lines controlling the sander valves, look good = cast on; in brass any usable wire is too big and the details would be = over done. Also the brackets that attach some of the piping. Con - the = stoker engine and injector could be made to look better, especially the = stoker motor. I may replace those with brass parts. Really on the plus = side is the small pipe or electrical conduit which runs from the air = pump steam supply on the left side all the way over to the right side = and forward until it goes below the walkway just ahead of the power = reverse. I had missed that line completely when I detailed the Gem. = The only thing the tender needs is a red MV lens in each marker. My PRR modeling philosophy has been that my engines must run very, very = well and "look like the picture". Some engines, like that Gem M1b, or = the PFM or Sunset I1's, take a lot of work; others, like the PFM L1 and = K4, take only a little. The BLI M1b is going to take less. It has a = couple of quality control warts (in my case, in the electronics, = probably), but cosmetically and in basic performance out of the box it = is way ahead of any of the brass engines I cited above. =20 I like it a lot. What's next BLI? Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_021F_01C3E861.EC18DCF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
A couple of months ago, after = hearing someone=20 else's Soundtraxx engine which I was just finishing, my wife, bless = her=20 heart, said, "We ought to have one with sound."  My Momma raised no = fools,=20 and I instantly leaped at this opportunity.  Ten minutes later my = order was=20 in.
 
My 6704 arrived today, and what follows = are my=20 observations.  No additional comments on the paint;  the = lettering is=20 crisp and will show thru the weathering.  The engine runs extremely = well on=20 my Digitrax DCC;  the chuff coodinates well with the speed and = power=20 required.  I found that about 30% volume is about right for my 13 x = 18 foot=20 room.  However, I found two discrepancies:  the bell doesn't = work and=20 the only background noise is either the random blowdown or pop off--I = can't tell=20 which.  I am missing the "rushing water"/"steam hiss" and air pump=20 sounds.  I also tested for these sounds on DC--no luck.  I = will be=20 talking to BLI on Monday.  I also will have to get my 1998 Digitrax = DCS100=20 upgraded so the higher numbered functions can be accessed.  A test = on my=20 180 deg 30 inch radius curve on a 2% grade reveiled 13 cars is the = limit. =20 That is without lube on the valve gear and rods (they have to be painted = first);  all cars were 40 ft weighted to NMRA recommended practice, = and all=20 have Kadee trucks.  I will be adding additional weight behind the = motor as=20 Andy did.  Also I don't think the weight in the boiler is lead, but = I=20 haven't disassembled the engine.  Replacing that weight with one = cast in=20 lead should provide a significant improvement.  Without the vast = vistas of=20 a club layout (and here in Northwest Florida we trade no snow for no = basement),=20 I will be happy at 16 or 17 cars. 
 
I ran 6704 around and stopped next to = my very much=20 modified Gem M1b for a 1 to 1 visual comparison.  The first thing I = noticed=20 was the bell.  Nobody does it right.  Precision Scale 3155 is = the only=20 correct bell I have seen on or off a HO model for the H/I/K/L/M = classes. =20 Before weathering, the parting line along the boiler top will have to be = smoothed up.  Three fairly noticeable lines are missing, but easily = added:  the short steam supply line for the generator out the right = side of=20 the steam dome into the boiler jacket, the continuation of this line out = from=20 under the boiler jacket and across the smokebox to the generator, and = the=20 generator exhaust around to the rear of the stack.  Whether to cast = details=20 as part of the boiler or attach them separately was a tradeoff resulting = in pros=20 and cons.  Pro - The small pipes and conduits, such as the air = lines=20 controlling the sander valves, look good cast on;  in brass any = usable wire=20 is too big and the details would be over done. Also the brackets that = attach=20 some of the piping.  Con - the stoker engine and injector could be = made to=20 look better, especially the stoker motor.  I may replace those with = brass=20 parts.  Really on the plus side is the small pipe or electrical = conduit=20 which runs from the air pump steam supply on the left side all the way = over to=20 the right side and forward until it goes below the walkway just ahead of = the=20 power reverse.  I had missed that line completely when I detailed = the=20 Gem.  The only thing the tender needs is a red MV lens in each=20 marker.
 
My PRR modeling philosophy has been = that my engines=20 must run very, very well and "look like the picture".  Some = engines, like=20 that Gem M1b, or the PFM or Sunset I1's, take a lot = of work; =20 others, like the PFM L1 and K4, take only a little.  The BLI M1b is = going=20 to take less.  It has a couple of quality control warts (in my = case, in the=20 electronics, probably), but cosmetically and in basic performance out of = the box=20 it is way ahead of any of the brass engines I cited above.  =
 
I like it a lot.  What's next=20 BLI?
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_021F_01C3E861.EC18DCF0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 07:23:52 EST Subject: [PRR] Merchandise Service banner When did this banner first appear on the box cars? When were the silver edge stripes deleted from the scheme? Thank you, Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1075638231 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
When did this banner first appear on the box cars?  When were the=20= silver edge stripes deleted from the scheme?
 
Thank you,

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1075638231-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Breon" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI M1b: My View Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 08:51:42 -0500 Stephen Hoxie writes: "However, I found two discrepancies: the bell doesn't work and the only = background noise is either the random blowdown or pop off--I can't tell = which. I am missing the "rushing water"/"steam hiss" and air pump = sounds. I also tested for these sounds on DC--no luck. I will be = talking to BLI on Monday." Hi Steve, One thing that you should try before contacting BLI is a "hard reset" as = directed in the manual. I routinely do this to all BLI locomotives prior = to operating them and have experienced no problems. Remove the tender = shell (remember, there's two screws on the underside of the floor that = need to be removed first) and place the locomotive and tender on the = track with no power (make sure the tender wiring harness is plugged into = the back of the locomotive when doing the reset). Remove the small black = jumper device as directed in the manual and then apply power with the = jumper removed. You will hear three "hoots" of the whistle indicating = that the reset is complete. Note that if you apply full power to perform = this function the locomotive may run away after the hoots so only apply = about 6 volts or so. After hearing the three hoots completely turn off = the track power and replace the jumper to its original location. Your = model should now behave properly for you. Give it a try. A few more notes on the BLI M1a/bs. I've noted that on all of mine, they = arrived with quite a bit of lube on the tender axle wipers which may or = may not affect the integrity of the electrical contact. I cleaned most = of it off. Also, for those of you inclined, as I was, to drill an additional hole = in the drawbar to get the tender closer to the cab (I moved my tender = 130" closer), note that when coupled together in the new position the = excess length of the drawbar rubs on the forward tender truck wiper. Not = sure if this would cause electrical or mechanical problems so I trimmed = off the excess drawbar material along with its original hole just to be = sure. Jerry Breon Birdsboro, PA ------=_NextPart_000_0492_01C3E8A0.9D4EBBA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Stephen Hoxie writes:
"However, I found two = discrepancies:  the bell=20 doesn't work and the only background noise is either the random blowdown = or pop=20 off--I can't tell which.  I am missing the "rushing water"/"steam = hiss" and=20 air pump sounds.  I also tested for these sounds on DC--no = luck.  I=20 will be talking to BLI on Monday."
 
Hi Steve,
 
One thing that you should try before contacting = BLI is a=20 "hard reset" as directed in the manual. I routinely do this to all BLI=20 locomotives prior to operating them and have experienced no problems. = Remove the=20 tender shell (remember, there's two screws on the underside of the floor = that=20 need to be removed first) and place the locomotive and tender on the = track with=20 no power (make sure the tender wiring harness is plugged into the back = of the=20 locomotive when doing the reset). Remove the small black jumper device = as=20 directed in the manual and then apply power with the jumper removed. You = will=20 hear three "hoots" of the whistle indicating that the reset is complete. = Note=20 that if you apply full power to perform this function the locomotive may = run=20 away after the hoots so only apply about 6 volts or so. After hearing = the three=20 hoots completely turn off the track power and replace the jumper to its = original=20 location. Your model should now behave properly for you. Give it a=20 try.
 
A few more notes on the BLI M1a/bs. I've noted = that on all=20 of mine, they arrived with quite a bit of lube on the tender axle wipers = which=20 may or may not affect the integrity of the electrical contact. I cleaned = most of=20 it off.
 
Also, for those of you inclined, as I was, to = drill an=20 additional hole in the drawbar to get the tender closer to the cab (I = moved my=20 tender .130" closer), note that when coupled together in the new = position the=20 excess length of the drawbar rubs on the forward tender truck wiper. Not = sure if=20 this would cause electrical or mechanical problems so I trimmed off the = excess=20 drawbar material along with its original hole just to be = sure.
 
Jerry Breon
Birdsboro, PA
------=_NextPart_000_0492_01C3E8A0.9D4EBBA0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] Merchandise Service banner Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 09:45:39 -0500 Evan Leisey asked: "When did this banner first appear on the box cars?" MS1 (Brady McGuire's designation, not the Pennsy's) first appeared = September 1947 on the 100 Class X40B, 300 Class X41B, and an = indeterminate number of Class X29B boxcars. This may have been applied = on a few Class X26C rebuilds, but this is based on an ORER note denoting = cars equipped for LCL service. Photographic evidence has not been = forthcoming.=20 "When were the silver edge stripes deleted from the scheme?" 1950. Only the Class X29 placed into LCL service received the = simplified scheme (MS2). The Toludine red background to the circle = keystone and "Merchandise Service" letters were eliminated as well. In = May 1954, the final version of the "Merchandise Service" appeared which = replaced the circle keystone with a shadow keystone (MS3). Very few = cars received this scheme - the only cars photographed with this scheme = that I've turned up so far are of PRR 504087 (X29) and PRR 37080 (X40B). Ben Hom=20 ------=_NextPart_000_00A2_01C3E8A8.26C377C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Evan Leisey asked:
"When did this banner first appear on = the box=20 cars?"
 
MS1 (Brady McGuire's designation, not = the=20 Pennsy's) first appeared September 1947 on the 100 Class X40B, 300 Class = X41B,=20 and an indeterminate number of Class X29B boxcars.  This may = have been=20 applied on a few Class X26C rebuilds, but this is based on an ORER note = denoting=20 cars equipped for LCL service.  Photographic evidence has not been=20 forthcoming. 
 
"When were the silver edge stripes = deleted from=20 the scheme?"
 
1950.  Only the Class X29 placed = into LCL=20 service received the simplified scheme (MS2).  The Toludine red = background=20 to the circle keystone and "Merchandise Service" letters were eliminated = as=20 well.   In May 1954, the final version of the "Merchandise=20 Service" appeared which replaced the circle keystone with a shadow = keystone=20 (MS3).  Very few cars received this scheme - the only cars=20 photographed with this scheme that I've turned up so far are of PRR = 504087=20 (X29) and PRR 37080 (X40B).
 
 
Ben Hom 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_00A2_01C3E8A8.26C377C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI M1b: My View Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 08:54:57 -0600 Hi Jerry--I have done the "hard reset" twice, but I will try it again. = When I saw the grease on the axle wipers, I thought it looked like = Aerocar's Gear Lubricant. In any event, I have had no electrical ontact = problems. Thanks for your help; I'll let you know how it goes. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_0247_01C3E8A1.1120D950 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Jerry--I have done the "hard reset" twice, = but I will=20 try it again.  When I saw the grease on the axle wipers, I thought = it=20 looked like Aerocar's Gear Lubricant.  In any event, I have had no=20 electrical ontact problems.
 
Thanks for your help;  I'll let you know = how it=20 goes.
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
------=_NextPart_000_0247_01C3E8A1.1120D950-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 10:48:37 -0500 Subject: [PRR] BLI Decoders (was: BLI M1b: my view) From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 12:20:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR J1a exposed sand pipes or not? MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Lists, With some more help via emails, a more complete list can now be assembled of know J1 J1a locos that had the outside Sand Lines. These are Photograph observed showing they had outside lines, not just in text. We are now up to 15 Locomotives. Roger Keyser's article in the Keystone mentioned at least 11 J1 and 3 J1a's so we are pretty much on although he didn't mention all the numbers. To date, so far we have: J1 #'s 6450, 6451, 6453, 6456, 6457, 6459, 6460, 6461, 6464, 6465, 6471, 6472, 6473 J1a #'s 6475 and 6478 Keep on the look out more and if you spot thru photo proof only of any additional J's let me know and we can add it to the list. If you spot any of the listed numbers, check for date of the photo to see how late these sand lines were still exsposed. I spotted one, forget which number now, that still had them exsposed as of 1951. Need to spot some very late photos of the above numbers as well to see if some, if any retained the outside lines til scrapping .....Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 14:26:39 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Loco List? From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: > Where can I find info on which locomotives and rolling stock were in use > in > 1940 on the middle division? > Thanks, > George Rudy > New Bloomfield, Pa. George, Lets split that up... Rolling stock...unless you mean MOW assigned equipment, there was no assignment of equipment to specific divisons, adn of course one wouold expect most of it to roam, both on and off of the railroad. For a listing of car classes around that period see: httP://vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRR carlcasses.html Locos...you need Form 229, Assignment of Locomotives. There is one from 11/1/44 at: http://www.wsbcos.com/mp229/mp229.htm Eric Hirmanski's book Black Gold - Black Diamonds, has a table of motive powe assiognments asa of Sept 1, 1945. However, this table does not allow you to find individual locomotive numbers. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: "George Rudy" , prr-talk@dsop.com From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] Loco List? Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:40:58 -0500 To: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Feb 1, 2004, at 3:26 PM, smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu wrote: > Rolling stock...unless you mean MOW assigned equipment, there was no > assignment of equipment to specific divisons, adn of course one wouold > expect most of it to roam, both on and off of the railroad. For a > listing > of car classes around that period see: > httP://vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRR carlcasses.html Another good tool to use would be to find a copy of the ORER...Official Railway Equipment Register. These show up on eBay fairly regularly. Plus Westerfield sells them on CD-ROM at very reasonable prices. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 15:59:43 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: [PRR] sqaured off position light signals X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: All: I saw oregon rail supply just started offering "squared off" lower position light signals (HO scale). Where/when did the PRR use these? A picture can be found 1/2 way down the page on Oregon Rail Supply site at: http://www.oregonrail.com/newsignal.html Note: they are also offering new PRR signal bridges. Thanks, Jeff Warner > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 16:07:22 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: [PRR] For sale (HO scale) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hello all: I have a list of locomotives and a few cars in HO scale available. They are Athearn diesels and Mantua steam engines in PRR and WM. Several PRR passenger cars are available. Also, some DCC decoders are available. Contact me off-list at jeff@pennsyrr.com if interested. Thanks, Jeff Warner ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-Talk LIST From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] sqaured off position light signals Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 16:31:18 -0500 To: jeff@pennsyrr.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Feb 1, 2004, at 3:59 PM, Jeff Warner wrote: > All: > > I saw oregon rail supply just started offering "squared off" lower > position light signals (HO scale). > Where/when did the PRR use these? These were the lower of the two signal heads on interlocking signals. Non-interlocking signals only had one signal head and it was the regular round version. > > A picture can be found 1/2 way down the page on Oregon Rail Supply > site at: > > http://www.oregonrail.com/newsignal.html > > Note: they are also offering new PRR signal bridges. Yes, one of many new offerings. The Oregon Rail Supply bridge is the "Lines West" style..used west of Pittsburgh, plus a few locations east of Pittsburgh, but west of Altoona, notably MG just west of the Horseshoe Curve. I think -- but could be wrong -- those are the easternmost example. Alkem Scale Models is doing the standard "Lines East" version that was found in eastern, non-electrified territory. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] weathering materials Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 16:33:43 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, Does anyone know what happened to Joe Polchlopek of http://www.joesmodeltrains.com ? He marketed a wonderful "Joes Gel" that you could remove just the lettering from a painted car. He also offered a few weathering chalks. I used to see the listings on Ebay all the time, but he has not listed anything in about 9 months. I am hoping to buy more of his products. Please reply to billlane@comcast.net Thanks, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 17:16:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR J1a exposed sand pipes or not? MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, What a day, nothing to do til the BIG game so I spent the last 4 hours looking at all my books, my Keystones and all my photos to gain more info on these J1/J1a with exposed/nonexposed sandlines. You can add another J1 which at one time had the exposed lines, #6463. I found that one in my album I overlooked earlier. I also started a second list. The following locos at one time had the exposed then later received to inside sand lines as seen proven in Photos. J1's 6451, 6453, 6456, 6457, 6460, 6461, 6464, 6471, 6472, 6473 and J1a 6478. That is 11 of 16 known so far. Still need to locate late era photos of 6450, 6459, 6463, 6465 and 6475 to see if they also received the inside lines. Keep an eye out please. Thanks again, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] sqaured off position light signals Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 17:59:22 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Re: Jerry sez - "Non-interlocking signals only had one signal head and it was the regular round version." That's not entirely correct, many distant signals (which technically were not interlocked) had two heads. In ABS territory it typically take two heads on the distant signal to behind a two headed home signal And in three block, four aspect ABS territory all the automatics had two heads. Now maybe they didn't all have backgrounds - BUT they had two heads. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] At 8:40 pm, on Feburary 1, 2004...... Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 22:18:46 -0500 ....a golden spike (lets just pretend its golden) was driven into = number 1 track just west of Wanatah, Indiana. This signified the = completion of my double track mainline from Fort Wayne to Valparaiso. = While I started on this layout in 1999, a basement sized layout has be a = dream of mine for 30 years.=20 At 8:48pm, a single Bachmann K-4 departed Plymouth heading west. It = completed the 3 scale-mile tour of the mainline at 8:52pm. The trip was = great to see.=20 Now, I need to finish installing Styrofoam panels adjacent to the track = bench work to catch any derailed or errant engines and cars. After that, = I will install some decoders on some Atlas SD-35's and P2K E-8's. Then = after that, another power district. Is there a football game on tonight? Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana (but my mind is in Plymouth) ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C3E911.5C1B1360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
.....a golden spike (lets just pretend its golden) was driven=20 into number 1 track just west of Wanatah, Indiana. This signified = the=20 completion of my double track mainline from Fort Wayne to Valparaiso. = While I=20 started on this layout in 1999, a basement sized layout has be a dream = of mine=20 for 30 years. 
 
At 8:48pm, a single Bachmann K-4 departed Plymouth heading west. It = completed the 3 scale-mile tour of the mainline at 8:52pm. The trip was = great to=20 see.
 
Now, I need to finish installing Styrofoam panels adjacent to the = track=20 bench work to catch any derailed or errant engines and cars. After that, = I will=20 install some decoders on some Atlas  SD-35's and P2K = E-8's. Then=20 after that, another power district.
 
Is there a football game on tonight?
 
 
Ted Andrews
Carmel, Indiana (but my mind is in Plymouth)
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C3E911.5C1B1360-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 22:31:27 -0500 From: Steve Sharpe Subject: Re: [PRR] At 8:40 pm, on Feburary 1, 2004...... X-Rcpt-To: Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: At 10:18 PM -0500 2/1/04, Ted Andrews wrote: >.....a golden spike (lets just pretend its golden) was driven >into number 1 track just west of Wanatah, Indiana. This signified >the completion of my double track mainline from Fort Wayne to >Valparaiso. While I started on this layout in 1999, a basement sized >layout has be a dream of mine for 30 years. > >At 8:48pm, a single Bachmann K-4 departed Plymouth heading west. It >completed the 3 scale-mile tour of the mainline at 8:52pm. The trip >was great to see. > >Now, I need to finish installing Styrofoam panels adjacent to the >track bench work to catch any derailed or errant engines and cars. >After that, I will install some decoders on some Atlas SD-35's and >P2K E-8's. Then after that, another power district. Congratulations! Two weeks ago operations began on the freelanced Ellsworth Division of the PRR when an L2 brought in the first loads to fill the coaling tower in the facility of my as yet unnamed city. I began my layout in 1995. I am still laying track and wiring. I hope to start on the scenery in a few months. -- Steve sbs@milestone-media.com • ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] Bridgeing the Gap In HO (For Sale) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 23:02:25 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gentelmen, I am pleased to announce the recent release of an HO double-track stone arch viaduct by Custom Model Railroads. It is made out of laser-cut acrylic and is modular in deisgn. While not a sepcific PRR prototype is has been observed by clients and passersby at a past trainshow on its similarity to Rockville's stone arch's as well as the stone arch overpasses of the Northern Central between Baltimore and York. CMR is selling these easy to build kits for $75.00 plus s&h. For an additional $35.00 you may purchase the arch add-on kit which if fully modular with the base kit to make your viaduct as long as you please. The viaduct can be viewed at: http://www.cmrtrain.com/viaduct.html To view the rest of our product line you may visit the following: http://www.cmrtrain.com/kits.html One of our past kits is the PRR's Union Station in Baltimore, personally its our easiest kit to build. Thank you for your time gentelmen. -John Frantz Designer and Modeler Custom Model Railroads Baltimore, MD Visit us online at www.cmrtrain.com ! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 02:33:26 -0500 From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI M1b: My View Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: > Stephen Hoxie writes: > "However, I found two discrepancies: the bell doesn't work and the only = > background noise is either the random blowdown or pop off--I can't tell = > which. I am missing the "rushing water"/"steam hiss" and air pump = > sounds. I also tested for these sounds on DC--no luck. I will be = > talking to BLI on Monday." In straight DC with my M1a I also had no bell sound at first power up, although all other sounds in DC, incl. simmering/stationary sounds (hiss/intermittent air compressor/pop off) were there. I "cursored" through to the Reset function with my Side Kick and got the bell sound back. So, an electronic reset might work in DCC, as well, instead of having to get the magnivisor out and crawl into the guts. These BLI/Quantum engines are a puzzle, aren't they?! Nevertheless, I'll take them over InsaniBrass/Franken-Dremel/Soundtraxx add-on any day. Vagel (Gimme-a-BLI-H-Class) Keller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: [PRR] Message to Dan Cupper Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 09:17:44 -0500 Dan: Please contact me off list. E-mails to your att address always bounce. Bill Volkmer ------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C3E96D.6B11EDB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
Dan:
 
Please = contact me=20 off list.  E-mails to your att address always = bounce.
 
Bill=20 Volkmer
------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C3E96D.6B11EDB0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 06:24:30 -0800 From: Peter Weiglin Subject: [PRR] Walther's is wrong Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In a recent post, we read -- That would be because pre-war and post war "tuscan" were different . If you look at Walther's R50B, you'll see the same thing, = = = "Walther's." How many times have we ween it spelled that way? But it's wrong. The family name is "Walthers." No apostrophe. It's not "Walther." So, if we're talking about an item belonging to Walthers, it's " Walthers' " - Not "Walther's." Or it could be the "Walthers Budd 10-6" - a product description that is not a possessive. But NEVER "Walther's." Peter Weiglin San Mateo CA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Lettering Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 09:30:42 -0500 From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Lettering From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:04:14 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] weathering materials Bill, Here is the info. from the last order from him: Joe's Model Trains 820 East 31 St. Erie, Pa. 16504 Ph: 814/434-8667 joepol@stargate.net Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1075734254 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Bill,
 
  Here is the info. from the last order from him:
 
Joe's Model Trains
820 East 31 St.
Erie, Pa.  16504
 
Ph: 814/434-8667
 
 

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1075734254-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] At 8:40 pm, on February 1, 2004...... Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:10:42 -0500
Ted,
 
Congrats on the golden = spike.  Years=20 ago there was a classified in the back of MR from a Jeweler in = Rochester NY who=20 advertised an actual HO scale golden spike.  It was not that=20 expensive.  Never got one with the idea of keeping it until I = finished my=20 layout.  Good luck with the rest of the layout.
 
Chris = Chany
------_=_NextPart_001_01C3E99E.B9EB0E40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:16:01 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] At 8:40 pm, on February 1, 2004...... From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Great news, Ted! Maybe you can shoot some new photos for me for your layout web site on Keystone Crossings? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 09:32:55 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Walther's is wrong From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Monday, February 2, 2004, at 08:24 AM, Peter Weiglin wrote: >> In a recent post, we read -- >> >> That would be because pre-war and post war "tuscan" were different >> . If >> you look at Walther's R50B, you'll see the same thing, > > = = = > > "Walther's." > > How many times have we ween it spelled that way? ^^^^^ > But it's wrong. The family name is "Walthers." No apostrophe. It's > not "Walther." > So, if we're talking about an item belonging to Walthers, it's " > Walthers' " - Not "Walther's." > Or it could be the "Walthers Budd 10-6" - a product description that > is not a possessive. > But NEVER "Walther's." Hi Peter, Well, that's why my published stuff all goes through an editor, eh? I consider it lucky that it wasn't Wlathers, which for some reason is the way it always seems to come out of my keyboard BTW, nice usage of "ween"...at first I thought it was a typo, but upon further consideration, I see that the middle english word ween (to fancy or imagine) fits ;^) I'll have to see if I can work it into casual conversation today... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 13:50:17 -0500 Subject: [PRR] TANGENT: Software Updates Affecting ListServ From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Please do not reply on list. Beginning this evening the mail server at DSOP.COM will begin having some updated filters and new filters installed in order to further combat SPAM. SPAM has not been a problem on the lists, as mail destined for the lists are pre-screened by the mail server. A whopping 90% of the mail received by the server -- about 7,000 messages per week -- is filtered and declared SPAM! With the new filters in place, instead of discarding all of this SPAM, the server will begin blocking it and source domains so that it doesn't use mail server resources. You, as subscribers, should not see anything differently. However, I am alerting you so that if something becomes amiss, you might know to contact me in case I do not know that I "broke" something! If you cannot reach me via e-mail, please call Desktop Solutions at 717-938-4270 to tip me off. These filters will be updated incrementally and a log is maintained at http://www.dsop.com/sitestats/site_log.ws4d Short descriptions of what each of these filters does is available at http://lists.dsop.com/techsupport.ws4d Thank you. ---------------------------------------- Listmaster listmaster@dsop.com Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] PRR tender trade Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 15:04:22 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Guys, Because of a recent trade, I am 1 riveted 12 wheel tender shorter then I was before the trade. Does anyone have a preferably unpainted S Scale Omnicon 12 wheel riveted tender you want to trade even up for an Omnicon 16 wheel smooth side tender? There was a time when you could not find extra 16 wheel tenders anywhere. Here is your chance to swap one out! The 16 wheel tender you would be getting is unpainted and mint. It is compatible with all Omnicon PRR steam engines. This offer is for an even trade only. Thanks, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 15:07:05 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR tender trade From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Monday, February 2, 2004, at 02:04 PM, Bill Lane wrote: > Hi Guys, > > Because of a recent trade, I am 1 riveted 12 wheel tender shorter then > I was > before the trade. Does anyone have a preferably unpainted S Scale > Omnicon 12 > wheel riveted tender you want to trade even up for an Omnicon 16 wheel > smooth side tender? There was a time when you could not find extra 16 > wheel > tenders anywhere. Here is your chance to swap one out! The 16 wheel > tender > you would be getting is unpainted and mint. It is compatible with all > Omnicon PRR steam engines. Bill, For those of us who are learning about what what is available in other scales, which "12 wheel" and "16 wheel" tenders are these (since PRR had a number of classes with each style truck)? Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 16:10:19 EST Subject: [PRR] Coal through Columbus In a message dated 1/29/04 7:27:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 19:02:27 +0000 > From: "Steve Hipes" > Subject: RE: N&W coal on T&OC > > Even though this is a Pennsy list, the whole N&W coal interchange scenario > through Columbus was very interesting and diverse. PRR certainly got the > lion's share of this interchange until the 1964 N&W-NKP merger and Sandusky > Branch sale. Don't forget that a good amount of N&W coal went west on the > Panhandle to Chicago. Most of that business was lost to the "expanded" N&W > but some interchange coal to northern Indiana steel mills continued through > the PC and CR years via the T&OC. Some N&W coal also went east on the > Panhandle to Mingo Junction or Pittsburgh using the symbol COA. The last > photograph of a train I shot on the Panhandle prior to the removal of > through traffic was of a COA extra with N&W coal at Lake Erie crossing in > Newark in early December 1981. > > As an aside and compeltely non-related, the Conrail UBH coal trains to Burns > > Harbor/Bethlehem Steel off the N&W were interchanged at Bannon into the > 80's, then the interchange point was moved to Toledo in the 90's. I don't > know if NS eventually hauled this coal all the way to Indiana and > interchanged it with IHB or if they continued to hand off those trains to CR > > in Toledo until May 31, 1999. > > Steve Hipes > Columbus, Ohio > Thanks for the updates on Columbus coal traffic. Re the Panhandle's Columbus to Chicago line, this has to be one of the most underappreciated parts of the PRR system. Circa 1900, the line from Columbus to Logansport was cut and filled and straightened and double tracked to form a second great PRR artery leading into Chicago. I lack company correspondence on this, but it's obvious that this was done to handle the volume of traffic in general, and especially coal traffic via Columbus. It also provided some relief for Cincinnati coal and freight that otherwise would have had to stagger up the MBS single track from Richmond to Anoka (near Logansport), leaving that line open for the pasenger fleet. Almost unknown except to the locals, this line (part of the Columbus and Logansport Divisions in 1941) had the same huge earthworks and stone arch bridges as the Fort Wayne, or for that matter, the Middle Division. Strange to realize that, had the Pennsy not grabbed the Pittsburgh Fort Wayne & Chicago in 1865? when they did, the main line of the Pennsylvania Railroad might have run Pittsburgh-Columbus-Bradford-Logansport-Chicago. If that had happened, it's possible the Norfolk Southern would be pounding the right-of-way today. Instead, it's just a big scar in the landscape, devoid of rail, ties, or ballast. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_41.398c79e6.2d5016bb_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 1/29/04 7:27:00=20= AM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes:


Message: 6
   Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 19:02:27 +0000
   From: "Steve Hipes" <sthipes@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: N&W coal on T&OC

Even though this is a Pennsy list, the whole N&W coal interchange scenar= io
through Columbus was very interesting and diverse.  PRR certainly got t= he
lion's share of this interchange until the 1964 N&W-NKP merger and Sandu= sky
Branch sale.  Don't forget that a good amount of N&W coal went west= on the
Panhandle to Chicago.  Most of that business was lost to the "expanded"= N&W
but some interchange coal to northern Indiana steel mills continued through=20=
the PC and CR years via the T&OC.  Some N&W coal also went east= on the
Panhandle to Mingo Junction or Pittsburgh using the symbol COA.  The la= st
photograph of a train I shot on the Panhandle prior to the removal of
through traffic was of a COA extra with N&W coal at Lake Erie crossing i= n
Newark in early December 1981.

As an aside and compeltely non-related, the Conrail UBH coal trains to Burns=
Harbor/Bethlehem Steel off the N&W were interchanged at Bannon into the=20=
80's, then the interchange point was moved to Toledo in the 90's.  I do= n't
know if NS eventually hauled this coal all the way to Indiana and
interchanged it with IHB or if they continued to hand off those trains to CR=
in Toledo until May 31, 1999.

Steve Hipes
Columbus, Ohio


Thanks for the updates on Columbus coal traffic.  Re the Panhandle's Co= lumbus to Chicago line, this has to be one of the most underappreciated part= s of the PRR system.  Circa 1900, the line from Columbus to Logansport=20= was cut and filled and straightened and double tracked to form a second grea= t PRR artery leading into Chicago.  I lack company correspondence on th= is, but it's obvious that this was done to handle the volume of traffic in g= eneral, and especially coal traffic via Columbus.  It also provided som= e relief for Cincinnati coal and freight that otherwise would have had to st= agger up the MBS single track from Richmond to Anoka (near Logansport), leav= ing that line open for the pasenger fleet.

Almost unknown except to the locals, this line (part of the Columbus and Log= ansport Divisions in 1941) had the same huge earthworks and stone arch bridg= es as the Fort Wayne, or for that matter, the Middle Division.  Strange= to realize that, had the Pennsy not grabbed the Pittsburgh Fort Wayne &= Chicago in 1865? when they did, the main line of the Pennsylvania Railroad=20= might have run Pittsburgh-Columbus-Bradford-Logansport-Chicago.  If tha= t had happened, it's possible the Norfolk Southern would be pounding the rig= ht-of-way today.  Instead, it's just a big scar in the landscape, devoi= d of rail, ties, or ballast.

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_41.398c79e6.2d5016bb_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Mt. Carmel ore run Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 22:14:01 +0000 From: "Bill Lane" Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 23:19:47 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR convention Hi All, I am already looking forward to the PRR convention. It happens whenever we have nasty winter weather as it has been here for the past month. Most of my friends are flying in a small private plane, or as I call it, a "Pinto with wings." I refuse to crash in a plane with less then 100 people! SO, as a cost saving measure, I may be driving. I was wondering if there is anyone who would split the gas expenses riding with me from the Phila./South Jersey area. I am not sure what day I will be leaving, but I will be driving straight though. I may have some leeway on the return trip, so a small detour could be made for something interesting on the way home. Thanks, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <943FB552-5692-11D8-9B23-000A9570A806@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk , Conrail-talk , Reading-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] TANGENT: List back up Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 16:47:35 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Sorry about that break in programming... we had a "wardrobe malfunction" that... ...uh, sorry, been told that excuse has already been used this week! Server is playing catchup. Please give it about two hours to do its thing. If you don't see your post(s) by then, please resend. Anything sent since 5 pm yesterday is affected. Thanks. ---------------------------------------- Listmaster listmaster@dsop.com Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "L. Heintz" Subject: [PRR] Renovo 66 - 67 Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 12:39:45 -0500 Looking at a photocopy of an RNE article,by Bill Volkmer,about the Alcos = of Renovo. Featured are the RS3' s (30-some) that were assigned there. = The 8445 (PC-5569,LV-211)(hammerhead) is in several shots in both = numbers in old & new paint. If Bill's dating is correct these pics show = 8445 with antenna in June, 1966; in fresh paint w/small keystones and no = antenna in Jan,1967; and in very faded paint, now 5569, on Sept.1,1967. Were all Renovo locos altered at this time ??=20 Was this the time period of removal of the antenna's on all diesels?? =20 Lynn ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3EA52.CDF4DBA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Looking at a photocopy of an RNE = article,by=20 Bill Volkmer,about the Alcos of Renovo. Featured are the RS3' s = (30-some) that=20 were assigned there. The 8445 (PC-5569,LV-211)(hammerhead) is in=20 several shots in both numbers in old & new paint. If Bill's = dating is=20 correct these pics show 8445 with antenna in June, 1966; in fresh paint = w/small=20 keystones and no antenna in Jan,1967; and in very faded paint, now 5569, = on=20 Sept.1,1967.
 
Were all Renovo locos altered at this = time=20 ?? 
 
Was this the time period of removal of = the=20 antenna's on all diesels?? 
 
Lynn
------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3EA52.CDF4DBA0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 13:01:26 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] TANGENT: Software Updates Affecting ListServ Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: SO this means we can't talk about enhancing anything, dropping the rates or eBay...all of which should trigger a SPAM filter? I hope it works for you, Jim McDaniel, calling now for lowest rates in Delmarva ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 18:53:45 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Mt. Carmel ore run I have no factually data other than the dialog off of a video that said the train was handed off to the Lehigh Valley in exchange for an empty ore train. >From all of my experiences with railroad videos, I would not take this info. to heart, but it does seem logical as the train was traveling to Bethelehem Steel in Bethlehem, Pa.. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1075766025 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
I have no factually data other than the dialog off of a video that said= the train was handed off to the Lehigh Valley in exchange for an empty ore=20= train.  From all of my experiences with railroad videos, I would not ta= ke this info. to heart, but it does seem logical as the train was traveling=20= to Bethelehem Steel in Bethlehem, Pa..

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1075766025-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 23:02:47 -0500 From: Steve Sharpe Subject: [PRR] BLI M1b followup Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: When I got home from work tonight there was a UPS box in my door from Broadway Limited Imports. Inside was an entire trailing truck wheel assembly, along with a handwritten note of apology for the inconvenience. To say that I am impressed with the service is an understatement. Now, I have to start saving for a J1!! -- Steve sbs@milestone-media.com • ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] PRR convention Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 23:19:47 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, I am already looking forward to the PRR convention. It happens whenever we have nasty winter weather as it has been here for the past month. Most of my friends are flying in a small private plane, or as I call it, a "Pinto with wings." I refuse to crash in a plane with less then 100 people! SO, as a cost saving measure, I may be driving. I was wondering if there is anyone who would split the gas expenses riding with me from the Phila./South Jersey area. I am not sure what day I will be leaving, but I will be driving straight though. I may have some leeway on the return trip, so a small detour could be made for something interesting on the way home. Thanks, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred in Vt." Subject: [PRR] Troop sleepers Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 21:58:13 -0500 List, Were the pullman troop sleeper/kitchen cars still used in 1953 for = troop movements in the "as built" configuration? Got to wondering if = they may have been used with PUC50R/PUC53R converted heavywieght = sleepers in the same time period, Pittsburg and east. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C3E9D7.A79D2500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
List,
      Were the = pullman=20 troop sleeper/kitchen cars still used in 1953 for troop movements in the = "as=20 built" configuration? Got to wondering if they may have been used with=20 PUC50R/PUC53R converted heavywieght sleepers in the same time period, = Pittsburg=20 and east.
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C3E9D7.A79D2500-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 14:32:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] M1b bummer MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, Anyone turn their M1a/b's into something that looks like something other than a fresh out of the shop Loco yet? I ran into a weathering problem when I went to airbrush the grime and etc on the drivers and rods. With the mechanism running I sprayed my colors on to the turning drivers and moving rods. After I had what I wanted I noticed a bright shiny spot where the main crankpin and crank turn. Seems there is no space between the surfaces of the Main Rod and Crank to keep the surfaces from rubbing. The result is a circular scrape on the surface. Paint will never have a chance to remain. Now it looks like I will have to see if I can get a tiny thin washer in the there. Probably not easy and most likely have to grind some surfaces thinner before the washer get fit in. I can leave as is but it looks stupid! So, I need to look into this.......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred in Vt." Subject: [PRR] pullman troop cars Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 00:25:41 -0500 When in doubt, ask>> =20 Were any pullman troop sleepers/kitchens, in thier original = configuration still in use in 1953? Maybe as supplement to the PUC50R & = PUC53R converted heavy weight sleepers? The Keystone mentioned that PUC = units did run out of Pittsburgh to the east, so why not the troop cars? If not, would it be correct to think that they had all been put into = express/baggage service, or converted to MW cars? The Milwaukee supplier has advertised the forthcomming release of troop = cars, but the budget needs to know how & where they can be used in the = stated time frame. Looks like the kitchen just begs to be kitbashed into = a NH express box. Ideas-------suggestions-------????? Side note: NOAA is forcasting heavy snow for friday, and lingering snow = showers for saturday. If you plan to attend the Springfield, Ma. show, = leave early, or bring lots of coffee with you! This weeks RUMOR, = Branchline pullmans!?!?? ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C3E9EC.41688B70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
When in doubt, ask>>
          &nbs= p;=20
Were any pullman troop = sleepers/kitchens, in thier=20 original configuration still in use in 1953? Maybe as supplement to the = PUC50R=20 & PUC53R converted heavy weight sleepers? The Keystone mentioned = that PUC=20 units did run out of Pittsburgh to the east, so why not the troop=20 cars?
 
If not, would it be correct to think = that they had=20 all been put into express/baggage service, or converted to MW = cars?
The Milwaukee supplier has advertised = the=20 forthcomming release of troop cars, but the budget needs to know how = & where=20 they can be used in the stated time frame. Looks like the kitchen just = begs to=20 be kitbashed into a NH express box. =20 Ideas-------suggestions-------?????
 
Side note: NOAA is forcasting heavy = snow for=20 friday, and lingering snow showers for saturday. If you plan to attend = the=20 Springfield, Ma. show, leave early, or bring lots of coffee with you! = This weeks=20 RUMOR, Branchline pullmans!?!??
------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C3E9EC.41688B70-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] Mt. Carmel ore run Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 00:14:02 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Norm-- Here are a couple of inputs. In Sweetland's Pennsylvania Railroad Color Pictorial Vol. 3, p. 88, there is a photo of 4249 retuning to Norry with mostly empties in 1956. Above it is a photo of the other three engines from the same eastbound returning light. A few months ago I read a discussion on this topic, but I can't remember which list it was on. Someone thought that there was a four way routing of hoppers, and I think this is the way it went: --Erie to Mt. Carmel via Northumberland, then on to Bethlehem Steel with iron ore; --Bethelem to Philly, empty --Philly to Pittsburgh loaded with coal or ore --Pittsburg to Erie, empty Obviously, it didn't happen that way all the time, but it seems reasonable. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <7540B409-5681-11D8-8889-000A95A7412A@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-Talk LIST From: David Wartell Subject: [PRR] PRR Coal Houses circa 1900 Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 14:45:02 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.612) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, As I am getting closer to having my layout in running condition, I will be having some questions for the list. I am modelling the Newtown Square branch of the PRR around 1900 when it was known as the Philadelphia and Delaware County Railroad. As I go over the CT 1000's I have access to, I notice that there entries for 2 coal houses on the branch. One at mile post 8.9 (Llanarch) and one at milepost 15.3 (Newtown Square). I am assuming these are there to refuel the engines if needed. Does any one have a description, picture or drawing of a turn of the century coal house they are willing to share? Dave Wartell djwartel@comcast.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 15:01:03 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi all, A visitor to my website sent me this photo of Iowa Traction Railroad Co.'s plow #30 asking if it was an F22. It sure looks like one to me! Was this a PRR F22? Is so does anyone know any more about it? Like what it's PRR # was etc... Any info would be appreciated! Oops.. almost forgot to add the link to the photo... it's at: http://prr.railfan.net/photos/submitted/IATR30_JohnRichards.jpg Thanks, Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Mt. Carmel ore run Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 08:01:35 -0500 No most of the empties were sent to Philadelphia via LV/RDG and PRR and then loaded with ore in Phila bound for Pittsburgh. Others were loaded with anthracite and shipped east and west from the Hazleton and Pottsville area. The helpers returned to Norry lite. -----Original Message----- From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net] Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 5:14 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Mt. Carmel ore run All the pictures I have seen talk about getting loads uphill. Did the empties return the same route and if so how many engines did that take? Did the helpers run back light? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C3EA2B.F252ECC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
No=20 most of the empties were sent to Philadelphia via LV/RDG and PRR and=20 then loaded with ore in Phila bound for Pittsburgh. Others were = loaded with=20 anthracite and shipped east and west from the Hazleton and Pottsville=20 area.  The helpers returned to Norry lite.
-----Original Message-----
From: = ndbprr@att.net=20 [mailto:ndbprr@att.net]
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 = 5:14=20 PM
To: PRR-Talk
Subject: [PRR] Mt. Carmel ore=20 run

All the pictures I have seen talk about getting = loads=20 uphill.  Did the
empties return the same route and if so how = many=20 engines did that take?  Did
the helpers run back=20 = light?

-----------------------------------------------------------= ------------
For=20 assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

<= /P>

------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C3EA2B.F252ECC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RBurg74133@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:10:36 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] TANGENT: List back up Where is the PRR content? We have 10,000 comedians out of work and Jerry is trying to break into the business. Ray Burghart SPF -------------------------------1075849836 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Where is the PRR content?
 
We have 10,000 comedians out of work and Jerry is trying to break into=20= the=20 business.
 
Ray Burghart SPF
 
 
 -------------------------------1075849836-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] Mt. Carmel ore run Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 08:47:15 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] Mt. Carmel ore run Thread-Index: AcPp3rng6qXHeBMGRfucSKZadntDbAAhabpQ From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: , "PRR-Talk" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Feb 2004 14:47:17.0782 (UTC) FILETIME=[9EC49B60:01C3EA64] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The helpers ran back light, but the hoppers followed a circular path, = picking up a new load at one of the ocean ports. -----Original Message----- From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net] Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 4:14 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Mt. Carmel ore run All the pictures I have seen talk about getting loads uphill. Did the=20 empties return the same route and if so how many engines did that take? = Did=20 the helpers run back light? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Trust Plates, Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 17:19:37 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] PRR Trust Plates, Thread-Index: AcPnrOC9VmmXDZmMSDGZxCSN6SjlPwC/y7fQ From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: , Cc: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Feb 2004 23:19:37.0674 (UTC) FILETIME=[312BE2A0:01C3EAAC] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I think the scrapping had more to do with reducing taxes more than = anything else. -----Original Message----- From: LAMAassoc@aol.com [mailto:LAMAassoc@aol.com] Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 9:36 PM To: aurora7@juno.com; LAMAassoc@aol.com Cc: mittner@webtv.net; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Trust Plates, In a message dated 1/30/04 7:31:17 PM, aurora7@juno.com writes: << What always struck me was the railroad company still paying on these locomotives, huge pieces of complex machinery sitting idle! As soon as they owned them outright, they scrapped them! I know it was done everywhere, but it goes against my Yankee thriftiness. >> ********************** Wasn't this strategy simply a function of the IRS regulations? When the locomotives were fully depreciated, they were "worthless,"=20 especially if they were not in revenue producing service. And, since the = RR didn't=20 owned the engine, the RR probably got paid by the bank/owner to scrap = the engine. Accountants? Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eSCM-MailFrom: From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 15:45:01 -0800 From: Rob Schoenberg [mailto:robsch@optonline.net] Subject: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 19:24:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] M1b bummer MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Guys, I seemed to have come up with my own solution for the rubbing of the rod/crank surfaces. Again, when weathering the loco mechanism, the rubbing of these 2 surfaces resulted in a shiny circular shape around the main rod and main crank. Too obvious to leave alone. Sooooo, I found out that if you take the main crank pin screws out, one sees the crank assembly is in 2 pieces. The Crank has a cast on bearing that slips thru the hole in the main rod, the hole in the drive rods and finally into the mating nub/hole on the driver. The Crank bearing mates with this nub on the driver to keep it locked into one position. I carefully ground the main rod end near the hole thinner using a dremel. I did all this with the rod still attached to the loco because I didn't want to tear everything apart. Once the surface was ground thinner, I had to find a spacer to slip in. I found that the hole in a copper spring that is used in a KD #5 box, is an exact fit to slip over that bearing on the crank. I had to trim that coupler box spring into a shape of a circle, very close with little excess remaining around the hole. When this is slipped between the crank and the main rod, it separates them enough so they keep from rubbing each other. This spacer I made is also small enough in diameter it can barely be seen. Once it was reassembled and weathered again, the problem was fixed and no scrapping evident except for the slight normal wear spots. So I am happy with the result. Takes nerves to do a little surgery. Most probably won't want to bother with. But that shine had to go. *Note* Do not attempt this with out a safety net! I will not be responsible for any goofs that may occur by anyone trying this. I did this on my own due to I couldn't resist. I am a tinker-er. There, that should be good enough. I am now free from any claims I messed up anyone's Broadway Ltd M1a/b 4-8-2 Steam Locomotives. ..........Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] M1b bummer Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:30:10 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gary, you have to watch out as it is a conductor, but I have used Neolube from PBL in such cases. A little shiny (it is a suspension of graphite) but it is darker and of course is designed to be a lubricant. I used a lot of it on my United I1 valve gear and drive rods. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 1:32 PM Subject: [PRR] M1b bummer > List, > > Anyone turn their M1a/b's into something that looks like something > other than a fresh out of the shop Loco yet? I ran into a weathering > problem when I went to airbrush the grime and etc on the drivers and > rods. With the mechanism running I sprayed my colors on to the turning > drivers and moving rods. After I had what I wanted I noticed a bright > shiny spot where the main crankpin and crank turn. Seems there is no > space between the surfaces of the Main Rod and Crank to keep the > surfaces from rubbing. The result is a circular scrape on the surface. > Paint will never have a chance to remain. Now it looks like I will have > to see if I can get a tiny thin washer in the there. Probably not easy > and most likely have to grind some surfaces thinner before the washer > get fit in. I can leave as is but it looks stupid! So, I need to look > into this.......Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work! > > PRR K4s Loco Pics: > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ > > PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > > and...... > > PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 20:01:33 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] M1b bummer Gary, Have you tried to use Blackin it? This chemically blackens the surface. At a minimum it will last longer than paint. Rich Orr -------------------------------1075856493 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Gary,
 
Have you tried to use Blackin it?  This chemically blackens the su= rface.  At a minimum it will last longer than paint.
 
Rich Orr
-------------------------------1075856493-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 20:07:33 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? In a message dated 2/3/2004 6:20:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, robsch@optonline.net writes: A visitor to my website sent me this photo of Iowa Traction Railroad Co.'s plow #30 asking if it was an F22. It sure looks like one to me! Was this a PRR F22? Is so does anyone know any more about it? Like what it's PRR # was etc... Any info would be appreciated! Oops.. almost forgot to add the link to the photo... it's at: http://prr.railfan.net/photos/submitted/IATR30_JohnRichards.jpg Rob: PRR had 119 F22 cars numbers 435287- 435400 and 925516-925535. Five lasted into PC. There is a picture at http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?photo=PRR_435317_925527_F22_ E12573_090440.jpg&fr=clF22 Rich Orr -------------------------------1075856853 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 2/3/2004 6:20:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, robsch@op= tonline.net writes:
A visitor to my website sent me this photo of=20= Iowa Traction Railroad Co.'s
plow #30 asking if it was an F22.  It s= ure looks
like one to me!  Was this a PRR F22?  Is so does anyo= ne know any more about
it?  Like what it's PRR # was etc...  An= y
info would be appreciated!  Oops.. almost forgot to add the link t= o the
photo...  it's at:
http://prr.railfan.net/photos/submitted/= IATR30_JohnRichards.jpg
Rob:
 
PRR had 119 F22 cars numbers 435287- 435400 and 925516-925535.  Fi= ve lasted into PC.  There is a picture at
 
 
Rich Orr
-------------------------------1075856853-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 20:09:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] M1b bummer MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Rich, If Blacken It dosn't penetrate the metal and only blackens the surface, the constant rotating of the 2 pieces that rub, would cause it to be shiny as well. It needs seperation with a washer/spacer as I did. Unless mine is the only one like that? It is a minor design problem I think. At least for those who weather. I will see when I get my second M1b. I used Blacken it once on a set of Sunset M1 Drivers. Unless I didn't do something right, I won't use that stuff again. It turned those drivers Green about a month later......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: k4sb@niia.net Subject: Re: [PRR] M1b bummer Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 02:02:15 -00 >From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) >Subject: Re: [PRR] M1b bummer >Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 20:09:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 21:28:30 -0500 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hey Yuze Gize, Hold On! IIRC the Milwaukee also had cars very similar to this... Which may make more sense... Some pne should offer this up to the Steam Era Freight Car list... But it could be an F22, but we should check. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 21:56:15 -0500 From: Rob Schoenberg Subject: RE: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com [mailto:TGREGMRTN@aol.com] Subject: Re: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] pullman troop cars Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 21:10:54 -0600 The troop sleeper cars were gone by the time you mention. The kitchen = cars were still used (a few of them) in early Korean Police Action. The = New Haven express car was converted from a troop sleeper, I am fairly = sure, not from a kitchen car. The Burlington express cars were = converted from troop kitchen cars in late 40's. More when I get a = chance to do some research.=20 I just got through painting my brass kitchen car for Burlington. I = didn't remove roof vents (in case I ever decide to sell ) which I should = rightly do for the Burlington car. I will post a picture when I get = through putting in windows (slide glass) and cross bars (piano wire). = Been on a binge of getting things done, painting my X42 mail storage car = after sitting for 21 years in the box. All to complete a mail train for = my BLI T1 :-). Next: BCW B74b horse express car. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Fred in Vt.=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 11:25 PM Subject: [PRR] pullman troop cars When in doubt, ask>> =20 Were any pullman troop sleepers/kitchens, in thier original = configuration still in use in 1953? Maybe as supplement to the PUC50R & = PUC53R converted heavy weight sleepers? The Keystone mentioned that PUC = units did run out of Pittsburgh to the east, so why not the troop cars? If not, would it be correct to think that they had all been put into = express/baggage service, or converted to MW cars? The Milwaukee supplier has advertised the forthcomming release of = troop cars, but the budget needs to know how & where they can be used in = the stated time frame. Looks like the kitchen just begs to be kitbashed = into a NH express box. Ideas-------suggestions-------????? Side note: NOAA is forcasting heavy snow for friday, and lingering = snow showers for saturday. If you plan to attend the Springfield, Ma. = show, leave early, or bring lots of coffee with you! This weeks RUMOR, = Branchline pullmans!?!?? ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C3EA9A.35BFC7D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
The troop sleeper cars were gone by the = time you=20 mention.  The kitchen cars were still used (a few of them) in early = Korean=20 Police Action.  The New Haven express car was converted from a = troop=20 sleeper, I am fairly sure, not from a kitchen car.  The Burlington = express=20 cars were converted from troop kitchen cars in late 40's.  More = when I get=20 a chance to do some research. 
 
 I just got through painting my = brass kitchen=20 car for Burlington.  I didn't remove roof vents (in case I ever = decide to=20 sell ) which I should rightly do for the Burlington car.  I will = post a=20 picture when I get through putting in windows (slide glass) and cross = bars=20 (piano wire).  Been on a binge of getting things done, painting my = X42 mail=20 storage car after sitting for 21 years in the box.  All to complete = a mail=20 train for my BLI T1 :-). Next: BCW B74b horse express car.
 
Bob Zoeller
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Fred in = Vt.=20
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 = 11:25=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] pullman troop = cars

When in doubt, = ask>>
          &nbs= p;=20
Were any pullman troop = sleepers/kitchens, in=20 thier original configuration still in use in 1953? Maybe as supplement = to the=20 PUC50R & PUC53R converted heavy weight sleepers? The Keystone = mentioned=20 that PUC units did run out of Pittsburgh to the east, so why not the = troop=20 cars?
 
If not, would it be correct to think = that they=20 had all been put into express/baggage service, or converted to MW=20 cars?
The Milwaukee supplier has advertised = the=20 forthcomming release of troop cars, but the budget needs to know how = &=20 where they can be used in the stated time frame. Looks like the = kitchen just=20 begs to be kitbashed into a NH express box. =20 Ideas-------suggestions-------?????
 
Side note: NOAA is forcasting heavy = snow for=20 friday, and lingering snow showers for saturday. If you plan to attend = the=20 Springfield, Ma. show, leave early, or bring lots of coffee with you! = This=20 weeks RUMOR, Branchline = pullmans!?!??
------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C3EA9A.35BFC7D0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] M1b bummer Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 21:19:37 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" > I used Blacken it once on a set of Sunset M1 Drivers. Unless I > didn't do something right, I won't use that stuff again. It turned those > drivers Green about a month later......Gary Blacken it is some sort of an acid etch that tends to rough up the surface. I had similar bad experience with some Capeline trucks and threw it away. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chuck Friedlein" Subject: [PRR] PB70 trucks Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 22:21:26 -0500 Does anyone know which class of trucks is under PB70 #4769 shown at the = bottom of THE KEYSTONE, Vol. 34, #2, Summer 2001, page24? Are elevation drawings of it available anywhere? Any help is much appreciated. Thanks, Chuck Friedlein ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3EAA4.106E3520 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Does anyone know which class of trucks is under PB70 = #4769=20 shown at the bottom of THE KEYSTONE, Vol. 34, #2, Summer 2001,=20 page24?
 
Are elevation drawings of it available = anywhere?
 
Any help is much appreciated.
Thanks,
Chuck Friedlein

------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3EAA4.106E3520-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 23:32:33 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p5 (Debian) at paonline.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Guys, A friend of mine who grew up in Iowa near there always used to revel in telling about how such-and-such little traction/shortline in Iowa got hold of one of the mighty PRR's flatcars, repainted it and turned it into a snow plow - thus erasing the evidence that they had stolen it. Never saw a photo of it before, but sounds like this must be it. I will ask him if he has any actual proof of this, or whether it is another urban legend. Jack Consoli ----- Original Message ----- From: ELDEN GATWOOD To: ; PRR-talk Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 6:45 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? > Rob; > You know, it does look an awful lot like an F22, and even more like an F23. > The trucks on it certainly look like those furnished on the F23 as-built. > The missing stake pocket is no big deal, but I also think the F22's had a > metal strip where the middle planks would have been located on the deck that > was where the gun "mount" was located and pivoted. It may actually have > been part of the car. I don't think the F23 had one. These flats I know > next to nothing about, though. Ask him if the center of the car appears to > have had a large reinforced center, or just planks. That may be the > give-away. > > Elden > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Schoenberg [mailto:robsch@optonline.net] > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 12:01 PM > To: PRR-talk > Subject: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? > > Hi all, > > A visitor to my website sent me this photo of Iowa Traction Railroad Co.'s > plow #30 asking if it was an F22. It sure looks > like one to me! Was this a PRR F22? Is so does anyone know any more about > it? Like what it's PRR # was etc... Any > info would be appreciated! Oops.. almost forgot to add the link to the > photo... it's at: > http://prr.railfan.net/photos/submitted/IATR30_JohnRichards.jpg > > Thanks, > > Rob > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 00:15:20 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p5 (Debian) at paonline.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: O.K., my friend just re-told me the story on this car: "About the IT flat car: Many years ago, (1967? 1969?) my family visited the Iowa Terminal. The Master Mechanic there told my dad a story about their snowplow. They needed a flat car for some MofW purpose, and when one came in interchange from Pennsylvania, they kept it. Put it way, way back in the weeds behind Emery shops. Faked the paperwork to document its return to the Chicago Great Western interchange. A Pennsy representative did come looking for it but went away empty handed After 15 years (the statute of limitations for theft), they brought it out of the weeds to use it. Eventually it became a plow. Fifteen years. That's planning ahead, no?." Sounds plausible... Jack Consoli ----- Original Message ----- From: ELDEN GATWOOD To: ; PRR-talk Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 6:45 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? > Rob; > You know, it does look an awful lot like an F22, and even more like an F23. > The trucks on it certainly look like those furnished on the F23 as-built. > The missing stake pocket is no big deal, but I also think the F22's had a > metal strip where the middle planks would have been located on the deck that > was where the gun "mount" was located and pivoted. It may actually have > been part of the car. I don't think the F23 had one. These flats I know > next to nothing about, though. Ask him if the center of the car appears to > have had a large reinforced center, or just planks. That may be the > give-away. > > Elden > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Schoenberg [mailto:robsch@optonline.net] > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 12:01 PM > To: PRR-talk > Subject: [PRR] IATR #30.... F22? > > Hi all, > > A visitor to my website sent me this photo of Iowa Traction Railroad Co.'s > plow #30 asking if it was an F22. It sure looks > like one to me! Was this a PRR F22? Is so does anyone know any more about > it? Like what it's PRR # was etc... Any > info would be appreciated! Oops.. almost forgot to add the link to the > photo... it's at: > http://prr.railfan.net/photos/submitted/IATR30_JohnRichards.jpg > > Thanks, > > Rob > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 02:22:40 EST Subject: [PRR] M-1 tenders continued Pulled the month of Jan 2004 off my Audio Visual PRR calendar and what should appear to my eyes but M-1b 6758 with a 210F75b tender . It has the small doghouse just like the extra Sunset I-1 tender I have so that tank has found a new home. So far it looks like the 6736 and 6758 had the welded tanks. ------- Ken McCorry --part1_25.43c309d0.2d51f7c0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Pulled the mo= nth of Jan 2004 off my Audio Visual PRR calendar and what should appear to m= y eyes but M-1b 6758 with a 210F75b tender . It has the small doghouse just=20= like the extra Sunset I-1 tender I have so that tank has found a new home. S= o far it looks like the 6736 and 6758 had the welded tanks. ------- Ken McCo= rry --part1_25.43c309d0.2d51f7c0_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Renovo 66 - 67 Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 08:23:08 -0500 The radios began arriving with the SD-40s in 1964. Over the next two to three years radios were applied to the other locos beginning with the second generation road units, then the GP-9s and finally filtered down to the Alco fleet. When radios were installed, the antennae were removed. Yard engines in Philadelphia, New York, and Chicago to name a few places had space radios many years before of course. I am just speaking about the road power. Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of L. Heintz Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 12:40 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Renovo 66 - 67 Looking at a photocopy of an RNE article,by Bill Volkmer,about the Alcos of Renovo. Featured are the RS3' s (30-some) that were assigned there. The 8445 (PC-5569,LV-211)(hammerhead) is in several shots in both numbers in old & new paint. If Bill's dating is correct these pics show 8445 with antenna in June, 1966; in fresh paint w/small keystones and no antenna in Jan,1967; and in very faded paint, now 5569, on Sept.1,1967. Were all Renovo locos altered at this time ?? Was this the time period of removal of the antenna's on all diesels?? Lynn ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C3EAF8.1F12A350 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Message
The=20 radios began arriving with the SD-40s in 1964.  Over the next two = to three=20 years radios were applied to the other locos beginning with the second=20 generation road units, then the GP-9s and finally filtered down to the = Alco=20 fleet.  When radios were installed, the antennae were=20 removed.
 
Yard=20 engines in Philadelphia, New York, and Chicago to name a few places had = space=20 radios many years before of course.  I am just speaking about the = road=20 power.
 
Bill=20 V.
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of L.=20 Heintz
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 12:40 = PM
To:=20 prr-talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] Renovo 66 - = 67

Looking at a photocopy of an RNE = article,by=20 Bill Volkmer,about the Alcos of Renovo. Featured are the RS3' s = (30-some) that=20 were assigned there. The 8445 (PC-5569,LV-211)(hammerhead) is in=20 several shots in both numbers in old & new paint. If Bill's = dating is=20 correct these pics show 8445 with antenna in June, 1966; in fresh = paint=20 w/small keystones and no antenna in Jan,1967; and in very faded paint, = now=20 5569, on Sept.1,1967.
 
Were all Renovo locos altered at this = time=20 ?? 
 
Was this the time period of removal = of the=20 antenna's on all diesels?? 
 
Lynn
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