Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 02:26:30 +1100 From: "Mick Molloy" Subject: [PRR] [OT] New Year greetz From: "Fred Rea" Subject: [PRR] BLI T1s inOhio too Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 01:22:52 -0500 I got a call from Hobbyland here in Reynoldsburg Ohio that mine had = arrived before noon today, Dec 31. My layout is littered with tools etc = right now so the T1's test run is a day or two away. But, it sure looks = great and feels pretty heavy. Fred Rea ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C3D005.C6D02710 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
I got a call from Hobbyland here in Reynoldsburg = Ohio that=20 mine had arrived before noon today, Dec 31.  My layout is littered = with=20 tools etc right now so the T1's test run is a day or two away.  = But, it=20 sure looks great and feels pretty heavy.
 
Fred Rea
------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C3D005.C6D02710-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 05:46:03 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Iron ore from Venezuela From: CENTGA@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 19:39:01 EST Subject: [PRR] Watkins Glen Question I recently returned from a trip and went by Seneca Lake. The PRR seemed to have a steep grade between Watkins Glen and Himrod. Anyone know what the grade was for this section of the Elmira Branch? Todd Horton --part1_8a.8999e4.2d2617a5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" I recen= tly returned from a trip and went by Seneca Lake. The PRR seemed to have a s= teep grade between Watkins Glen and Himrod. Anyone know what the grade was f= or this section of the Elmira Branch? Todd Horton --part1_8a.8999e4.2d2617a5_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "L. Heintz" Subject: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 22:02:21 -0500 For a few months I have read references to Cocoa Beach .Could someone = please enlighten me as to the particulars of this event ?? regards lah ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C3D0B2.EE34CE20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
For a few months I have read references = to Cocoa=20 Beach .Could someone please enlighten me as to the particulars of = this=20 event ??
regards
lah
------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C3D0B2.EE34CE20-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 23:49:30 -0500 SEE: http://home.brevard.net/~brockm/prototyperails2004/ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: L. Heintz=20 To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 10:02 PM Subject: [PRR] Cocoa Beach For a few months I have read references to Cocoa Beach .Could someone = please enlighten me as to the particulars of this event ?? regards lah ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C3D0C1.E62425A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
SEE:
 
http://home.= brevard.net/~brockm/prototyperails2004/
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 L.=20 Heintz
Sent: Thursday, January 01, = 2004 10:02=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] Cocoa = Beach

For a few months I have read = references to Cocoa=20 Beach .Could someone please enlighten me as to the particulars of = this=20 event ??
regards
lah
------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C3D0C1.E62425A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 12:13:22 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Society's Slavedrivers In a message dated 12/31/03 7:22:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: [PRR] Alco PB's > From: "Jerry Britton" > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:20:59 -0500 > > On Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 03:14 PM, Al Buchan wrote: > > > Check out info on LL PA and PB units in January's TKM, due out on > > 01-02-04. > > > Slavedrivers! The Society prez has the staff working over the > holidays!!! > So? The print Keystone staff worked over the holidays -- Chuck Blardone is hard at work putting the finishing touches on the Spring issue with the printer. (I got copied for the messages). If a lot of people (including Chuck and Al) didn't drive us and themselves hard, the Society would be mediocre. And that's just not gonna happen! Sincere thanks to all of you laboring in our behalf, and a Happy New Year to all... (und zee you in Zinzinnati!)... Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 12:13:22 EST Subject: [PRR] Society's Slavedrivers In a message dated 12/31/03 7:22:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: [PRR] Alco PB's > From: "Jerry Britton" > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:20:59 -0500 > > On Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 03:14 PM, Al Buchan wrote: > > > Check out info on LL PA and PB units in January's TKM, due out on > > 01-02-04. > > > Slavedrivers! The Society prez has the staff working over the > holidays!!! > So? The print Keystone staff worked over the holidays -- Chuck Blardone is hard at work putting the finishing touches on the Spring issue with the printer. (I got copied for the messages). If a lot of people (including Chuck and Al) didn't drive us and themselves hard, the Society would be mediocre. And that's just not gonna happen! Sincere thanks to all of you laboring in our behalf, and a Happy New Year to all... (und zee you in Zinzinnati!)... Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_1dc.17ba4b74.2d2700b2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a messa= ge dated 12/31/03 7:22:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes= :


Subject: Re: [PRR] Alco PB's From: "Jerry Britton" <jerry@pennsyrr.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:20:59 -0500

On Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 03:14  PM, Al Buchan wrote:

> Check out info on LL PA and PB units in January's TKM, due out on
> 01-02-04.
>
Slavedrivers! The Society prez has the staff working over the
holidays!!!


So?  The print Keystone staff worked over the holidays -- Chuck Blardon= e is hard at work putting the finishing touches on the Spring issue with the= printer.  (I got copied for the messages).  If a lot of people (i= ncluding Chuck and Al) didn't drive us and themselves hard, the Society woul= d be mediocre.  And that's just not gonna happen!

Sincere thanks to all of you laboring in our behalf, and a Happy New Year to= all... (und zee you in Zinzinnati!)...

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_1dc.17ba4b74.2d2700b2_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 15:44:13 -0500 From: Rail Classics Subject: [PRR] Rail Classics Production Samples of N5c From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 17:09:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Re: PC: Rail Classics Production Samples of N5c MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Eddy, Took a look at your scans of the N5c. Excellent! I have been involved in the restoration of x-PRR N5c 477974 and I must say after looking at your model and remembering back on our work, you got the underframe down nicely. Just last weeks work session found us removing the last of the steel plate floor from the 477974. All that is seen now is the main center sill, the cross bearers, the angled bearers, appliances, etc. Yours looks really really close! I can't see your center sill very good but it does look correct. Inspecting our center sill last week we seen this was constructed of many pieces. Not just 2 U Channels running the length as originally thought. It is constructed of Angles and Flat Steel all rivited together to form the long Channels.. In HO Scale this would mean very little. But anyway, just wanted to pat you on the back for the details you are building into this model....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <99F524D2-3D7C-11D8-83BF-000A9570A806@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] BLI Update Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 18:37:17 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: T1's arrived today. Wow! Loco weights a ton. Color looks good, but have not yet compared with a drift card. Perhaps later tonight. Connection between loco and tender is among the easiest I have worked with. Sound test on test track good. Running smooth. Will not have chance to run on "real world" track for about a week, but I imagine by then we will hear from an end user who has already put the loco to work. A few days ago I mentioned the new announcement of E7A (single) units, but with road numbers duplicating those in the AB sets. I called BLI on it and requested different A numbers. I received a FAX today confirming that change. So FOUR A-B-A lashup possibilies are now possible. The E7's are due in February. Here is the current lineup: Brunswick Green (their choice of name): 5846A - 5846B 5850A - 5850B 5847A 5851A Tuscan Red: 5840A - 5840B 5842A - 5842B 5841A 5843A M1a/M1b's still slated for late January / early February. NW2 and SW7's are due in late Spring. J1's are due later in 2004. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI Update Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 01:45:21 +0000 >From: Jerry @ Pennsy >Subject: [PRR] BLI Update >Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 18:37:17 -0500 From: "L. Heintz" Subject: [PRR] Watkins Glen - Himrod (Elmira Br) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 22:54:15 -0500 The elevation difference between Watkins Glen and=20 the Starkey wye is 375' for the twelve track miles. This figures to about .06 of 1% overall. Starkey is about 3.5 miles south of Himrod.Himrod sits in a=20 pocket and the line starts climbing again with another pocket at PennYan,finally reaching the summit at Stanley,91' above Starkey. Looking at my track map('56) I find Stanley is only 2 feet higher than Horseheads.Would not have believed it. >From Sodus Point to Stanley ,34 miles,the line climbs south 516' ,with 10 sections of track that climb between .9 - 1.4 %. In the 18 miles from Watkins Glen to Horseheads the line climbs 98% of the difference in only 9 miles. The chart shows it all between .79 and 1.25 % with the exception of two very short,almost flat sections. I would think that they pushed both ways from the Watkins Glen wye. Single track and about 9 pass. sidings, coal,empties, wayfreights,passenger service,to bad I wasn't born sooner ! LAH =20 ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C3D183.58BE66E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
The elevation difference between = Watkins Glen and=20
the Starkey wye is 375' for the twelve = track=20 miles.
This figures to about .06 of 1% = overall. Starkey=20 is
about 3.5 miles south of Himrod.Himrod = sits in a=20
pocket and the line starts climbing again with
another pocket at PennYan,finally = reaching=20 the
summit at=20 Stanley,91' above Starkey.
Looking at my track = map('56) I find Stanley is only
2 feet higher than Horseheads.Would not = have
believed it.
From Sodus Point to Stanley ,34 = miles,the=20 line
climbs south 516' ,with 10 = sections of track=20 that
climb between .9 - 1.4 = %. In the 18 miles from
Watkins Glen to Horseheads the = line climbs=20 98%
of the difference in only 9 miles. The = chart=20 shows
it all between .79 and 1.25 % with the=20 exception
of two very short,almost flat=20 sections.
 
I would think that they pushed = both ways from=20 the
Watkins Glen wye. Single track and = about 9=20 pass.
sidings, coal,empties,=20 wayfreights,passenger
service,to bad I wasn't born sooner = !
 
LAH   
------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C3D183.58BE66E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: [PRR] PRRin Metcalf ILL Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 00:59:18 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I'm looking for some information for a friend on the Pennsy crossing of the NKP in Metcalf ILL near Peoria. I can't even find this location in my 1945 CT1000 or in the later 1964 list of reportable locations. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] F30a photo Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 06:40:40 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi all, Here is your last chance to download an F30a Builders photo under construction. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/F30a.jpg Dial up users beware! It IS chunky! I am removing the photo from the link tomorrow. Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CENTGA@aol.com Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 08:08:04 EST Subject: [PRR] Watkins Glen >From Sodus Point to Stanley ,34 miles,the line climbs south 516' ,with 10 sections of track that climb between .9 - 1.4 %. In the 18 miles from Watkins Glen to Horseheads the line climbs 98% of the difference in only 9 miles. The chart shows it all between .79 and 1.25 % with the exception of two very short,almost flat sections. Thanks for the information. Visually it looked much steeper than this. There's a highway crossing about 10 miles out of Watkins where the elevation really shows up compared to the lake. I imagine Watkins Glen would have been a smoky place in the steam daze. Todd --part1_19c.1eb9848a.2d2818b4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" From So= dus Point to Stanley ,34 miles,the line
climbs south 516' ,with 10 sections of track that
climb between .9 - 1.4 %. In the 18 miles from
Watkins Glen to Horseheads the line climbs 98%
of the difference in only 9 miles. The chart shows
it all between .79 and 1.25 % with the exception
of two very short,almost flat sections.


Thanks for the information. Visually it looked much steeper than this. There= 's a highway crossing about 10 miles out of Watkins where the elevation real= ly shows up compared to the lake. I imagine Watkins Glen would have been a s= moky place in the steam daze. Todd
 --part1_19c.1eb9848a.2d2818b4_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 08:02:09 -0700 From: "Dave Mittner" Subject: [PRR] Name The Painting..2 days left From: "Bill Lane" Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 06:40:40 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] F30a photo Hi all, Here is your last chance to download an F30a Builders photo under construction. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/F30a.jpg Dial up users beware! It IS chunky! I am removing the photo from the link tomorrow. Thanks Bill "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <3632072C-3E02-11D8-834F-000A9570A806@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] More BLI T1 Notes Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 10:33:42 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I managed to muck up the programming on my T1 last night. If you have an advanced throttle -- such as the Digitrax DT400 series -- there are functions 9-12 that aren't directly supported on regular throttles. I was playing with these, and I think I might have preceded one by depressing a key other than FUNC and sent things amiss. After that, it no longer responded to address 3. I tried programming it, but it failed. Programming three CV's to reset its factory state appeared to work, but yielded no end results. The manual indicates a jumper in the tender. You remove power, remove the jumper, power up, power down, add the jumper, power up and you are back to a factory condition. Worked perfectly. Don't know what I did, but this recovery worked fine. Only hard part was figuring how to get the tender open. The manual says "no screws; snap fit", which is correct, but there is no hint as to where the snap-fit locations are that you need to release. Took a few minutes to figure out. All is well now. As to color... against a DGLE drift card the loco is definitely a little more green than the card under florescent light. In my opinion, however, it is a good color and definitely not "too green" as was reported with the GG1's. I think it compares well with recent releases from Atlas and Life Like. There are some tweaks that can be done with the sound, which I have yet to experiment yet. Coupler "clank" is included, which is pretty cool, and when you release you can hear the brake line release. Nice! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Reed Kosmal" Subject: Re: [PRR] Name the Painting Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 10:36:25 -0500 Holiday Bound ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dave Mittner=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 8:08 PM Subject: [PRR] Name the Painting List, I am seeking the help of those knowledgeable and creative minds = subscribing to PRR-talk in an effort to come up with a title for my = latest artwork. I have just finished a 24" by 30" acrylic painting = depicting a T1 bursting through a snow drift. The scene is set = somewhere on the mainline in either Illinois or Indiana with engine = #5514 still in it's original 1946 design. Here is a link that will show = you a pretty decent representation of the painting. CLICK HERE What I would like everyone to do is submit what they feel would be = a good title for this painting. If enough responses are received, I = will choose what I feel are the top five candidates and then have the = entire list vote for the winning entry. The person that submitted this = winning entry will receive a signed print of this painting when they = become available, probably the end of January. After contacting Jerry Britton and getting his blessing for this = endeavor, he became the first participant. The first candidate will be = "Northern Express" submitted by Jerry himself. I will accept your = submissions until the evening of Sunday, January 4th, 2004. You can = contact me personally, off the list, or via PRR-talk. Besides this = lists members, only two other people will have seen this painting. You = will not find it on my web site, so you will need to use the above link = to view the painting. I will periodically re-post details of this contest and any = current submissions throughout this week to insure as many list members = as possible can participate. Thanks for participating and good luck! Sincerely, David B Mittner Dave's Railroad Art Gallery ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C3D1E5.6FE17B70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Holiday Bound
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Dave = Mittner=20
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 = 8:08=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] Name the = Painting

List,
    I am seeking the = help of those=20 knowledgeable and creative minds subscribing to PRR-talk in an effort = to come=20 up with a title for my latest artwork.  I have just finished = a 24"=20 by 30" acrylic painting depicting a T1 bursting through a = snow=20 drift.  The scene is set somewhere on the mainline in = either=20 Illinois or Indiana with engine #5514 still in it's original 1946=20 design.  Here is a link that will show you a pretty decent = representation=20 of the painting.  CLICK = HERE
    What I would like = everyone to=20 do is submit what they feel would be a good title for this=20 painting.  If enough responses are received, I will choose what I = feel=20 are the top five candidates and then have the entire list vote for the = winning=20 entry.  The person that submitted this winning entry will receive = a=20 signed print of this painting when they become available, probably the = end of=20 January.
    After contacting = Jerry Britton=20 and getting his blessing for this endeavor, he became the first = participant.=20 The first candidate will be "Northern Express" submitted by Jerry=20 himself.  I will accept your submissions until the evening of = Sunday,=20 January 4th, 2004.  You can contact me personally, off the=20 list, or via PRR-talk.  Besides this lists members, only two = other=20 people will have seen this painting.  You will not find it on my = web=20 site, so you will need to use the above link to view the=20 painting.
    I will = periodically re-post=20 details of this contest and any current submissions throughout = this week=20 to insure as many list members as possible can = participate.
 
Thanks for participating and good=20 luck!
 
Sincerely, David B = Mittner
 
Dave's = Railroad Art=20 Gallery
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C3D1E5.6FE17B70-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 10:47:40 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Metcalf IL not on Peoria Branch In a message dated 1/3/04 3:06:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 00:59:18 -0500 > From: "Brian J Carlson" > Subject: PRRin Metcalf ILL > > I'm looking for some information for a friend on the Pennsy crossing of the > NKP in Metcalf ILL near Peoria. I can't even find this location in my 1945 > CT1000 or in the later 1964 list of reportable locations. Any help would be > greatly appreciated. > > Brian J Carlson > Cheektowaga NY > The only Metcalf I can find is in eastern Illinois not far from Terre Haute but not on the PRR. In fact, it's where the NKP/Clover Leaf crosses a B&O line -- this is in the NKP territory modeled by Tony Koester. Metcalf is between Cayuga IN (Tony's home town) and Oakland IL (crossing of the Peoria Branch). Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 10:47:40 EST Subject: [PRR] Metcalf IL not on Peoria Branch In a message dated 1/3/04 3:06:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 00:59:18 -0500 > From: "Brian J Carlson" > Subject: PRRin Metcalf ILL > > I'm looking for some information for a friend on the Pennsy crossing of the > NKP in Metcalf ILL near Peoria. I can't even find this location in my 1945 > CT1000 or in the later 1964 list of reportable locations. Any help would be > greatly appreciated. > > Brian J Carlson > Cheektowaga NY > The only Metcalf I can find is in eastern Illinois not far from Terre Haute but not on the PRR. In fact, it's where the NKP/Clover Leaf crosses a B&O line -- this is in the NKP territory modeled by Tony Koester. Metcalf is between Cayuga IN (Tony's home town) and Oakland IL (crossing of the Peoria Branch). Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West --part1_1cc.170ea006.2d283e1c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 1/3/04 3:06:47 A= M Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes:


Message: 5
   Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 00:59:18 -0500
   From: "Brian J Carlson" <brian@net.bluemoon.net>
Subject: PRRin Metcalf ILL

I'm looking for some information for a friend on the Pennsy crossing of the<= BR> NKP in Metcalf ILL near Peoria.  I can't even find this location in my=20= 1945
CT1000 or in the later 1964 list of reportable locations.  Any help wou= ld be
greatly appreciated.

Brian J Carlson
Cheektowaga NY


The only Metcalf I can find is in eastern Illinois not far from Terre Haute=20= but not on the PRR.  In fact, it's where the NKP/Clover Leaf crosses a=20= B&O line -- this is in the NKP territory modeled by Tony Koester. =20= Metcalf is between Cayuga IN (Tony's home town) and Oakland IL (crossing of=20= the Peoria Branch).

           &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO
(Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968)
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   And Remembering PRR Lines West
--part1_1cc.170ea006.2d283e1c_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] Input on "Prototype Modeling" Meets Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 12:11:20 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] Input on "Prototype Modeling" Meets Thread-Index: AcPPGJMpBUSS1pnDR82SjquujYW0MgCdqL4g From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: , , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jan 2004 18:11:22.0928 (UTC) FILETIME=[FEA35B00:01C3D224] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Another nice feature at the Naperville Meet: Presentations are given = two or three times during the meet, so that if you miss it at one time, = you can attend at another.=20 -----Original Message----- From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com [mailto:TGREGMRTN@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 2:41 PM To: PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com; prr-talk@dsop.com; STMFC@yahoogroups.com; prrths_modeling_committee@yahoogroups.com Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] Input on "Prototype Modeling" Meets ELDEN.GATWOOD@ttisg.com writes: > Hi all; > I hope you had, and are having a great holiday period! >=20 > I was hoping that some of you that have attended modeling meets in the = past > might tell me the features of each that you have enjoyed the most. I = am > sure that some of them have events, presentations, awards, and other = aspects > that you thought were particularly well done, and I would very much = like to > hear what you think. Elden, First, I can tell you what does work, I think that is the most = positive way to look at it. 1)Good Prior Planning (DUH!) 2)Good Scheduling of Seminars, with =BD hour between the next. Very = Important for those who do go over... (I think this would make Clark = happy, too)=20 3)Friday, Saturday meets, Sundays only eliminate those who must travel = some distance. 4)A good mix of Modeling Techniques and Prototype.=20 5)Invitation only vendors, swap meets don't work for me at least... 6)Good advance Marketing. 7)Good Fellowship, such as a dinner, or luncheon where most can gather = and share. 8)CHECK THE Egos AT THE DOOR.=20 > I could also use any thoughts as to what doesn't work, what has caused = problems, and what to avoid. A) Avoid scheduling conflicts, at least locally.=20 B) Starting your event too early on Friday leaves some local folks out. C) Avoid Prototype distractions, some may disagree, but your event = should be the attraction.=20 D)CHECK Egos at the door... Did I say that?=20 =20 > Thanks very much for your feedback! >=20 > Elden Gatwood Hope this helps Elden... Greg Martin=20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] InterMountain January Releases Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 18:51:56 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: PSA... Noteworthy releases from InterMountain in January include: HO Scale: PRR P85b coaches in the later Keystone scheme (Centralia Car Shops) Jersey Central PBm coaches (Bethlehem Car Works) N Scale: WFE (large goat) wood reefers ATSF "___ VALLEY" PS 6-6-4 sleepers (Centralia Car Shops) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Peters" Subject: Re: [PRR] Name The Painting..2 days left Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 18:55:18 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Well someone said this train is inbound to Chicago so I would like to add "Windy City arrival"....................boomer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Mittner" To: Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 10:02 AM Subject: [PRR] Name The Painting..2 days left > List, > There are currently 71 title submissions for the "Name the Painting" > contest. They are all listed below in alphabetical order. New suggestions > will continue to be accepted until Sunday night at midnight, AZ time. The > top 5 which I feel represents the painting the best will then be posted > sometime on Monday. Voting by the list will then begin and last until > Wednesday, midnight to determine the winner. > > There is still time to submit that "perfect" title and a chance to win > an > artist signed print of this painting. The job of selecting only 5 finalists > is hard enough, but com'n and make it harder by submitting some more great > suggestions. Once again, here is the link to view the painting that someone > on this list will name: http://www.users.qwest.net/~mittner/T1.jpg > > Thanks and keep up the good work, > > David B Mittner > PRRT&H member #6699 > Dave's Railroad Art Gallery : > http://www.users.qwest.net/~mittner/davesart.html > > > > "A HOT KNIFE THROUGH BUTTER" > > "A KEYSTONE WINTER" > > "...AND WITH A BONE IN HER TEETH" > > "A T1'S WINTER BLAST" > > "A WESTERN WINTER DAY" > > "ALMOST HOME" > > "ALWAYS MOVING" > > "BLUE RIBBON BREAKTHROUGH" > > "BUSTIN' THROUGH" > > "CHRISTMAS RUSH" > > "CINDERS, STEAM AND SNOW" > > "CONQUEST" > > "DASHING DUPLEX" > > "DASHING THROUGH THE SNOW" > > "DAWN BREAKER" > > "EASTERN THOROUGHBRED" > > "ELEMENTS" > > "HEADING HOME FOR THE HOLIDAYS" > > "I'LL BE HOME FOR THE HOLIDAYS" > > "INDIANA SNOW DRIFT" > > "JUST ANOTHER PENNSY DAY" > > "LAKE EFFECT" > > "LAND LINERS" > > "LAND SHARK" > > "LINES WEST CLASS" > > "MASTER OF THE ELEMENTS" > > "MASTERING THE ELEMENTS" > > "MAXIMUM EFFORT" > > "NEITHER SNOW NOR RAIN..." > > "NEVER IN DOUBT" > > "NOR SLEET, NOR SNOW" > > "NORTHERN EXPRESS" > > "ON SCHEDULE" > > "ON THE ADVERTISED" > > "ON TIME- EVERY TIME" > > "PENNSY IRON AND ICE" > > "PENNSY STEAM AT IT'S FINEST" > > "PERFECT PENNSY POWER" > > "PLOWING DOWN THE BROAD WAY" > > "PLOWING PAST" > > "PLOWING THE GREAT WHITE WAY" > > "POPPET, FRESH SNOW" > > "PORTHOLE PLOW" > > "POWER AND RESOLVE" > > "POWER ON DEMAND" > > "ROSEBUD" > > "RUNNING FOR HOME" > > "SNOW AT SPEED" > > "SNOW FIGHTING, PENNSY STYLE" > > "SNOW KING" > > "SNOW SHARK" > > "SNOW, STEEL AND SMOKE- AGAINST THE ODDS" > > "STILL ON TIME" > > "STREAMLINED SNOW" > > "STUDY IN STEAM AND SNOW" > > "T1 DUPLEX vs. OLD MAN WINTER...A TIMETABLE IN THE BALANCE" > > "T1 DUPLEX vs. OLD MAN WINTER...A TIMETABLE ON THE LINE" > > "TEMPTING FATE" > > "THE BRUNSWICK BULLET" > > "THE MAIL WILL GET THROUGH" > > "THE SILVER BULLET" > > "THE SNOW STORM" > > "THROUGH THE MORNING SNOW" > > "THUNDER AND STEEL" > > "TRAIL BLAZER" > > "WE'LL MAKE NEW YORK ON TIME" > > "WINDY CITY DEPARTURE" > > "WINTER ARROW" > > "WINTER DREAMS" > > "WINTER FUN" > > "WINTER THUNDER" > > If there are any submissions I may have left out, please let me know. > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] More BLI T1 Notes Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 18:19:15 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I'm getting antsy waiting for our distributor shipment next week. Questions: 1. How difficult is it to change out the drivers for the flanged versions? 2. I believe Evan on the list mentioned trying that on one version. Anyone got an idea what minimum radius is with the flanged drivers? I think they quote 22 inch on the unflanged ones. 3. I can only compare others' BLI locos as I haven't had a chance to play with one myself, but their sound doesn't sound as good as my Soundtraxx in my Bowser M1. That may be their limited knowledge of how to tweak their new toy. Anyone who has had a chance to play with the BLI care to comment? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2004 11:24:44 +1100 From: "Mick Molloy" Subject: Re: [PRR] Name the Painting Cc: "PRR-Talk" From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] More BLI T1 Notes Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 19:52:57 -0500 To: "Bob Zoeller" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Jan 3, 2004, at 7:19 PM, Bob Zoeller wrote: > I'm getting antsy waiting for our distributor shipment next week. > Questions: > 1. How difficult is it to change out the drivers for the flanged > versions? I've not changed mine yet, but it looks fairly straightforward. A tool is included. > 2. I believe Evan on the list mentioned trying that on one version. > Anyone > got an idea what minimum radius is with the flanged drivers? I think > they > quote 22 inch on the unflanged ones. I'd bet 30" would be in order, but haven't tried yet. > 3. I can only compare others' BLI locos as I haven't had a chance to > play > with one myself, but their sound doesn't sound as good as my > Soundtraxx in > my Bowser M1. That may be their limited knowledge of how to tweak > their new > toy. I was pleased with the sound. It is much better than what was in the N&W Class A. However, the whistle needs tweaked and I haven't gotten to that yet. It comes programmed to work with all power forms but can be tweaked for more advanced systems. For example, if you try to do two shorts, it cuts off the first to play the second, rather than having the first subside with the second bursting over it. > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jean Gagne" Subject: [PRR] Middle Division Trach Chart Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 21:29:53 -0500 I am trying to find a track chart of the Middle Division circa 1955 in = electronic format. Since my finances are pretty tight, I would like a = free copy if possible. If anyone knows where I could find it, please let = me know. Thanks ! Johnny ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C3D240.B9D093A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
I am trying to find a track chart of = the Middle=20 Division circa 1955 in electronic format. Since my finances are pretty = tight, I=20 would like a free copy if possible. If anyone knows where I could find = it,=20 please let me know.
 
Thanks !
 
Johnny
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C3D240.B9D093A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Passenger Extra question Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 22:53:47 -0500 PRR-Listers: In compiling the data from the Warsaw tower train sheets I have = uncovered a different train symbol. On January 3, 1965, 39 years ago = today, PX55 preceded train 55 past Warsaw tower. Train 55 is the = westbound "Pennsylvania Limited". PX55 preceded 55 by 25 minutes. Would = PX55 this be the first or second section of the Pennsylvania Limited? By = 1965, would this train primarily be head-end equipment? The same thing happened with train 49, the westbound General on Jan. 4. = But in that case, the PX49 followed train 49 by 1-1/2 hours. Any thoughts? Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana ------=_NextPart_000_04E3_01C3D24C.72A884E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
PRR-Listers:
 
In compiling the data from the Warsaw tower train sheets I have = uncovered a=20 different train symbol. On January 3, 1965, 39 years ago today, PX55 = preceded=20 train 55 past Warsaw tower. Train 55 is the westbound "Pennsylvania = Limited".=20 PX55 preceded 55 by 25 minutes. Would PX55 this be the first or second = section=20 of the Pennsylvania Limited? By 1965, would this train primarily be = head-end equipment?
 
The same thing happened with train 49, the = westbound General on=20 Jan. 4. But in that case, the PX49 followed train 49 by 1-1/2 = hours.
 
Any thoughts?
 
 
Ted Andrews
Carmel, Indiana 
------=_NextPart_000_04E3_01C3D24C.72A884E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 00:17:13 EST Subject: [PRR] Centralia P85br coach seats Shortly after receiving these cars, I reported that none of the cars I got through Merchandise Service and the ones in stock at the local hobby shop had the curved seat strip problem. I took Andy's method of removing one side to paint and detail the interior of one car. Its seat strip was found attached to the floor and was glued back in after painting and populating. Last week I took another car out to be detail to find out its seats were now curved up at both ends. A check of the last five on the hobby shop's shelf also showed the curve even though they were straight when received. Apparently this is a fleet (tongue in cheek -- production run) problem. As Andy's method of removing a side is fairly easy, the curved seat condition is not a big problem. Hope the future release has had this problem corrected. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1073193433 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
  Shortly after receiving these cars, I reported that none of= the cars I got through Merchandise Service and the ones in stock at the loc= al hobby shop had the curved seat strip problem.  I took Andy's method=20= of removing one side to paint and detail the interior of one car.  Its=20= seat strip was found attached to the floor and was glued back in after paint= ing and populating.  Last week I took another car out to be detail to f= ind out its seats were now curved up at both ends.  A check of the last= five on the hobby shop's shelf also showed the curve even though they were=20= straight when received.  Apparently this is a fleet (tongue in cheek --= production run) problem.  As Andy's method of removing a side is fairl= y easy, the curved seat condition is not a big problem.
 
Hope the future release has had this problem corrected.

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1073193433-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: [PRR] re: South Charleston Station Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 11:47:28 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi There! I am interested in any information concerning the Columbus Division, South Charleston passenger station on the old C&X line. I know it was located on the North side of the main tracks and it sat just West of Church Street. I have track maps showing that between the DT&I diamonds and Church Street, there were only two 'switches' coming off the West bound main to the North. If that is the case, then the 'station' track, was just a short stub? Any information or photos of this area would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Gary Cost gcost@columbus.rr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 13:44:49 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] More BLI T1 Notes Jerry writes... > As to color ... against a DGLE drift card the loco is definitely a little > more green than the card under florescent light. In my opinion, however, it is > a good color and definitely not "too green" as was reported with the GG1's. > I think it compares well with recent releases from Atlas and Life Like I just received notice that mine is in and will ship next week while I am away in Cocoa Beach... I will have the first test shot of the Athearn Genesis F3's with me. There are some corrections that need to be made but the color is a dead match for the originals. I go the Okay to show they regardless of the corrections, which are already in the making. I will compare the A/G to the T1 one and report back. The photos of the Life Like corrected color look very promising ... Now let's see what how BLI stands up... Greg Martin --part1_1c2.1395bb27.2d29b921_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Jerry writes...

As to color ... against a DGLE=20= drift card the loco is definitely a little more green than the card under fl= orescent light. In my opinion, however, it is a good color and definitely no= t "too green" as was reported with the GG1's. I think it compares well with=20= recent releases from Atlas and Life Like


I just received notice that mine is in and will ship next week while I am aw= ay in Cocoa Beach... I will have the first test shot of the Athearn Genesis=20= F3's with me.  There are some corrections that need to be made but the=20= color is a dead match for the originals.  I go the Okay to show they re= gardless of the corrections, which are already in the making.

I will compare the A/G to the T1 one and report back.  The photos of th= e Life Like corrected color look very promising ...

Now let's see what how BLI stands up...

Greg Martin --part1_1c2.1395bb27.2d29b921_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] Passenger Extra question Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 14:30:27 -0500 Bill: In the case of Train 55, The Pennsylvania Limited, it was due at Warsaw = at 1:29pm. On January 3, 1965, Train PX55 departed Warsaw at 1:53pm = while Train 55 departed at 2:18pm.=20 On January 4, Train 49, The General, was due at Warsaw at 6:35am. Train = 49 departed Warsaw at 6:58am while Train PX49 departed on 7:31am.=20 As you can see, both trains are late. That may not be a surprise since = they are on the homestretch of a long trip. But I do concur with you = reasoning that PX55 was predominately mail while PX49 was a coach = section. 49 was the 2nd hottest passenger train on the Ft. Wayne. It = would not make sense for the Pennsy to make it in a mail train = especially when they had 2 dedicated mail trains already. (45 and 52) Ted Warsaw Tower tease of the day: Train FW-24 (Chicago-Ft. Wayne) on Jan 2, = was led by PRR 9722, a SHARK! In the first half of 1965, engines such as = these would appear primarily on locals in Warsaw. By the end of the = year, they were replaced by GP-9's.=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: WAMMP236@aol.com=20 To: Ted_Andrews@msn.com=20 Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Passenger Extra question Hello, In the case of 55, my thought would be it would have been a = mail train. #55 hauled a Post Office car right up untill Amtrak NYP PGH = and was always a heavy mail and express hauler. In 49s case I would think that one section would have been an = all Pullman section and the other an all coach section. I would be interested in the times. The second section of #49 = would have to have left AFTER the scheduled departure time of the First = section as it carried passengers. In the case of #55 the first section = could have left ahead of the scheduled passenger departure since it = carried only mail and express. = Bill = ------=_NextPart_000_04CB_01C3D2CF.4C74EBA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Bill:
 
In the case of Train 55, The Pennsylvania Limited, it was due at = Warsaw at=20 1:29pm. On January 3, 1965, Train PX55 departed Warsaw at 1:53pm while = Train 55=20 departed at 2:18pm.
 
On January 4, Train 49, The General, was due at Warsaw at 6:35am. = Train 49=20 departed Warsaw at 6:58am while Train PX49 departed on 7:31am.
 
As you can see, both trains are late. That may not be a surprise = since they=20 are on the homestretch of a long trip. But I do concur with you = reasoning that=20 PX55 was predominately mail while PX49 was a coach section. 49 was the = 2nd=20 hottest passenger train on the Ft. Wayne. It would not make sense for = the Pennsy=20 to make it in a mail train especially when they had 2 dedicated mail = trains=20 already. (45 and 52)
 
Ted
 
 
Warsaw Tower tease of the day: Train FW-24 (Chicago-Ft. Wayne) on = Jan 2,=20 was led by PRR 9722, a SHARK! In the first half of 1965, engines such as = these=20 would appear primarily on locals in Warsaw. By the end of the=20 year, they were replaced by GP-9's. 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: WAMMP236@aol.com
To: Ted_Andrews@msn.com
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 = 11:12=20 AM
Subject: Re: [PRR] Passenger = Extra=20 question

Hello,
       In the case of 55, my = thought would=20 be it would have been a mail train. #55 hauled a Post Office car right = up=20 untill Amtrak NYP PGH and was always a heavy mail and express = hauler.
        In 49s case I would = think that=20 one section would have been an all Pullman section and the other an = all coach=20 section.
        I would be interested = in the=20 times.  The second section of #49 would have to have left AFTER = the=20 scheduled departure time of the First section as it carried = passengers. =20 In the case of #55 the first section could have left ahead of the = scheduled=20 passenger departure since it carried only mail and express.
=
           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =              = Bill
=
           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;    =20
------=_NextPart_000_04CB_01C3D2CF.4C74EBA0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mark Taylor" Subject: RE: [PRR] Centralia P85br coach seats Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2004 14:43:54 -0500 >From: RDG2124@aol.com >Subject: [PRR] Centralia P85br coach seats >Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 00:17:13 EST Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] More BLI T1 Notes Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 14:59:57 -0500 To: TGREGMRTN@aol.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Jan 4, 2004, at 1:44 PM, TGREGMRTN@aol.com wrote: > > I just received notice that mine is in and will ship next week while I=20= > am away in Cocoa Beach... I will have the first test shot of the=20 > Athearn Genesis F3's with me.=A0 There are some corrections that need = to=20 > be made but the color is a dead match for the originals.=A0 I go the=20= > Okay to show they regardless of the corrections, which are already in=20= > the making. > > I will compare the A/G to the T1 one and report back.=A0 The photos of=20= > the Life Like corrected color look very promising ... > > Now let's see what how BLI stands up... If the USPS cooperates, Bruce Smith will have his T1 at Cocoa Beach.=20 It's shipping out to him tomorrow. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 19:47:47 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Xenia and the Springfield Branch In a message dated 1/3/04 3:51:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 11:16:23 -0800 > From: "Douglas Kirkpatrick" > Subject: Fallen Flags NetSite > > Jim, > > Thanks for the tip to this fascinating site. > > Did one of you guys write the summary about Xenia, OH? > (http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/prr/xenia.html) It hints/says that the Springfield branch of the > PRR actually continued north of Springfield at one time. Do any of you know > about that? > > Thanks. > > Doug Kirkpatrick > Medford, OR > I hadn't seen this before, and am unsure of its author. It wouldn't be either me nor Tom Vondruska. The overall site is owned by George Elwood. Some comments I'd offer: 1. Dayton Union Station is MP 16.0 from Xenia. Therefore the "15 miles apart" is a little off -- although probably accurate via highway. 2. We locals would have said "up Detroit Street", as the Springfield Branch climbed from Xenia's station to the trackage passing Greene County's courthouse. 3. PRR nee Little Miami's Springfield Branch never went north of Springfield. However, trains connected with those of the Mad River & Lake Erie (later Big Four and then NYC) to Sandusky, forming the first through route from Cincinnati to New York City circa 1847. Soon the Little Miami's affiliate Columbus & Xenia reached Columbus, with connections eastward, and most traffic went that way. 4. The interlocking where the B&O crossed the PRR Cincinnati main was just west of Xenia's station and interlocking, but was manned separately as "West Greene". 5. That "fairly good grade" eastward from Dayton was 1.6%, and had apparently been 2% before its last elevation project (involving an underpass at Linden Avenue). The upgrade continued to Clement Yard -- and necessitated either helpers or doubleheaded K4s. The westbound grade into Clement could and did also trap underpowered trains. The line through Beavercreek Township (between Clement and Xenia) did not carry heavy freight traffic, and so was never heavily rebuilt to reduce its grades. 6. The Springfield Branch was cut near Xenia circa 1966 due to a bridge problem. The whole Branch was superfluous with the Penn Central merger. 7. The Cincinnati line lost its signals in 1974; traffic shifted at that time to PRR Columbus-Xenia-Dayton-NYC Cincinnati or PRR Columbus-London-NYC Springfield-Dayton-Cincinnati. More on the PRR's Cincinnati Division in the upcoming Keystone -- guess who drew the short straw to write that article? Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 19:47:43 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Some Cincinnati plans In a message dated 1/3/04 4:04:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20 weiglin@sbcglobal.net writes: > Rick -- >=20 > I have been trying to get location information for the Cincinnati PRRT&HS= =20 > convention, and was told that the info would be out in early March. >=20 > That's relatively short notice. (I'd also like to mention it in the=20 > magazine.)=20 > Do you know at what hotel/facility the convention will be? >=20 > Peter Weiglin > San Mateo, CA > (Associate Editor, Mainline Modeler) Hi Peter, I see you're with us on the program. The Society has released the followin= g=20 (which can be found at=20 http://www.prrths.com/E%20News/PRR_e-News-Nov2003-N38.html): ***************************************************************************= *** ***************** 2004 Cincinnati Chairman Rick Bailey has provided KeN with the following=20 preliminary information about the 2004 annual meeting in Cincinnati (subjec= t to=20 change in final planning). Looks like a great program is coming together fo= r=20 this first ever, west of Pittsburgh event, mark this weekend on your calend= ar now=20 - Thursday April 29th =E2=80=93 Sunday May 2nd. =C2=B7 Programs Gib Youngblut Cincinnati Union=20 Terminal Al Westerfield XL Box Cars Rick Tipton PRR in Louisvill= e=20 or PRR in Dayton (I'm augmenting the Louisville one) Ron Widman PRR in Columbus James Hunter PRR in Indianapol= is Rich Berg Freight Cars Gary Shaffer Pittsburgh,=20 Youngstown and Ashtabula Mike Havron Colsan and Sandusk= y=20 Branch Bill Harvey and Gary Salzgaber Passenger Equipment Jack White Origins of PRR i= n=20 Cincinnati Jon Barker Lines West Woode= n=20 Structures Ted Andrews PRR in Warsaw India= na Peter Weiglin Pennsy Diesels Richard Wallace Rail facilities=20 around Terre Haute (1 =C2=BD hours) Elden Gatwood and Al Buchan Modeling Committee Forum Bob Johnson Annual Station and= =20 Archives Report =C2=B7 Banquet Speakers Dan Finfrock Railroads in=20 Cincinnati DonWood The Sandusky Branch =C2=B7 = =20=20=20=20 Railfan Tours o Rail Expo in Latonia Guided tours of the museum. Will try and have the PRR equipment set up=20 together.Date: Friday, April 30 Time: First run @ 9:30. Second @ 11:00 = =C2=B7=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Non-Rail Tours=20 Riverboat Cruise with Lunch and Aquarium Lunch on a B&B Riverboat, Tour=20 Aquarium, and sightsee Newport on the Levee and the riverfrontDate: Friday= , April=20 30 Time: 10:00 to 6:00=20 Lebanon, Ohio Lunch at the Golden Lamb and self-guided tour of antique=20 storesDate: Saturday May 1 Time: 9:30 =E2=80=93 1:30=C2=B7 = =20 Banquet Cincinnati Union Terminal =E2=80=93 Dinner and presentations Grif Teller Exhibition Cincinnati In Motion (historical museum exhibit with themed scale scenes) Tower A at CUT (Cincinnati Railroad Club's eagles' nest high above the rail= =20 yards in the Mill Creek Valley) ***************************************************************************= *** ***************** I know there's more plans than this now finalized. For example, our hotel= =20 will be the Best Western Springdale, which I stayed at as recently as last= =20 spring. I believe the negotiated price is $71, a good one for that part of= =20 northern Cincinnati. You should be able to get additional info from Rick B= ailey at=20 513-523-1034 or his email . Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remember= ing Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to =3D PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com=20 Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=20 !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 19:47:47 EST Subject: [PRR] Xenia and the Springfield Branch In a message dated 1/3/04 3:51:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 11:16:23 -0800 > From: "Douglas Kirkpatrick" > Subject: Fallen Flags NetSite > > Jim, > > Thanks for the tip to this fascinating site. > > Did one of you guys write the summary about Xenia, OH? > (http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/prr/xenia.html) It hints/says that the Springfield branch of the > PRR actually continued north of Springfield at one time. Do any of you know > about that? > > Thanks. > > Doug Kirkpatrick > Medford, OR > I hadn't seen this before, and am unsure of its author. It wouldn't be either me nor Tom Vondruska. The overall site is owned by George Elwood. Some comments I'd offer: 1. Dayton Union Station is MP 16.0 from Xenia. Therefore the "15 miles apart" is a little off -- although probably accurate via highway. 2. We locals would have said "up Detroit Street", as the Springfield Branch climbed from Xenia's station to the trackage passing Greene County's courthouse. 3. PRR nee Little Miami's Springfield Branch never went north of Springfield. However, trains connected with those of the Mad River & Lake Erie (later Big Four and then NYC) to Sandusky, forming the first through route from Cincinnati to New York City circa 1847. Soon the Little Miami's affiliate Columbus & Xenia reached Columbus, with connections eastward, and most traffic went that way. 4. The interlocking where the B&O crossed the PRR Cincinnati main was just west of Xenia's station and interlocking, but was manned separately as "West Greene". 5. That "fairly good grade" eastward from Dayton was 1.6%, and had apparently been 2% before its last elevation project (involving an underpass at Linden Avenue). The upgrade continued to Clement Yard -- and necessitated either helpers or doubleheaded K4s. The westbound grade into Clement could and did also trap underpowered trains. The line through Beavercreek Township (between Clement and Xenia) did not carry heavy freight traffic, and so was never heavily rebuilt to reduce its grades. 6. The Springfield Branch was cut near Xenia circa 1966 due to a bridge problem. The whole Branch was superfluous with the Penn Central merger. 7. The Cincinnati line lost its signals in 1974; traffic shifted at that time to PRR Columbus-Xenia-Dayton-NYC Cincinnati or PRR Columbus-London-NYC Springfield-Dayton-Cincinnati. More on the PRR's Cincinnati Division in the upcoming Keystone -- guess who drew the short straw to write that article? Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West --part1_129.38a93565.2d2a0e33_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 1/3/04 3:51:38 P= M Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes:


Message: 3
   Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 11:16:23 -0800
   From: "Douglas Kirkpatrick" <kirkpat@charter.net>
Subject: Fallen Flags NetSite

Jim,

Thanks for the tip to this fascinating site.

Did one of you guys write the summary about Xenia, OH? (http://www.rr-fallen= flags.org/prr/xenia.html) It hints/says that the Springfield branch of the P= RR actually continued north of Springfield at one time. Do any of you know a= bout that?

Thanks.

Doug Kirkpatrick
Medford, OR


I hadn't seen this before, and am unsure of its author.  It wouldn't be= either me nor Tom Vondruska.  The overall site is owned by George Elwo= od.

Some comments I'd offer:

1. Dayton Union Station is MP 16.0 from Xenia.  Therefore the "15 miles= apart" is a little off -- although probably accurate via highway.

2. We locals would have said "up Detroit Street", as the Springfield Branch=20= climbed from Xenia's station to the trackage passing Greene County's courtho= use.

3. PRR nee Little Miami's Springfield Branch never went north of Springfield= .  However, trains connected with those of the Mad River & Lake Eri= e (later Big Four and then NYC) to Sandusky, forming the first through route= from Cincinnati to New York City circa 1847.  Soon the Little Miami's=20= affiliate Columbus & Xenia reached Columbus, with connections eastward,=20= and most traffic went that way.

4. The interlocking where the B&O crossed the PRR Cincinnati main was ju= st west of Xenia's station and interlocking, but was manned separately as "W= est Greene".

5. That "fairly good grade" eastward from Dayton was 1.6%, and had apparentl= y been 2% before its last elevation project (involving an underpass at Linde= n Avenue).  The upgrade continued to Clement Yard -- and necessitated e= ither helpers or doubleheaded K4s.  The westbound grade into Clement co= uld and did also trap underpowered trains.  The line through Beavercree= k Township (between Clement and Xenia) did not carry heavy freight traffic,=20= and so was never heavily rebuilt to reduce its grades.

6.  The Springfield Branch was cut near Xenia circa 1966 due to a bridg= e problem.  The whole Branch was superfluous with the Penn Central merg= er.

7.  The Cincinnati line lost its signals in 1974; traffic shifted at th= at time to PRR Columbus-Xenia-Dayton-NYC Cincinnati or PRR Columbus-London-N= YC Springfield-Dayton-Cincinnati.  More on the PRR's Cincinnati Divisio= n in the upcoming Keystone -- guess who drew the short straw to write that a= rticle?

           &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO
(Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968)
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   And Remembering PRR Lines West
--part1_129.38a93565.2d2a0e33_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 19:47:43 EST Subject: [PRR] Some Cincinnati plans Content-Language: en In a message dated 1/3/04 4:04:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20 weiglin@sbcglobal.net writes: > Rick -- >=20 > I have been trying to get location information for the Cincinnati PRRT&HS=20 > convention, and was told that the info would be out in early March. >=20 > That's relatively short notice. (I'd also like to mention it in the=20 > magazine.)=20 > Do you know at what hotel/facility the convention will be? >=20 > Peter Weiglin > San Mateo, CA > (Associate Editor, Mainline Modeler) Hi Peter, I see you're with us on the program. The Society has released the following= =20 (which can be found at=20 http://www.prrths.com/E%20News/PRR_e-News-Nov2003-N38.html): ****************************************************************************= ** ***************** 2004 Cincinnati Chairman Rick Bailey has provided KeN with the following=20 preliminary information about the 2004 annual meeting in Cincinnati (subject= to=20 change in final planning). Looks like a great program is coming together for= =20 this first ever, west of Pittsburgh event, mark this weekend on your calenda= r now=20 - Thursday April 29th =E2=80=93 Sunday May 2nd. =C2=B7 Programs Gib Youngblut Cincinnati Union=20 Terminal Al Westerfield XL Box Cars Rick Tipton PRR in Louisville= =20 or PRR in Dayton (I'm augmenting the Louisville one) Ron Widman PRR in Columbus James Hunter PRR in Indianapoli= s Rich Berg Freight Cars Gary Shaffer Pittsburgh,=20 Youngstown and Ashtabula Mike Havron Colsan and Sandusky= =20 Branch Bill Harvey and Gary Salzgaber Passenger Equipment Jack White Origins of PRR in= =20 Cincinnati Jon Barker Lines West Wooden= =20 Structures Ted Andrews PRR in Warsaw Indian= a Peter Weiglin Pennsy Diesels Richard Wallace Rail facilities=20 around Terre Haute (1 =C2=BD hours) Elden Gatwood and Al Buchan Modeling Committee Forum Bob Johnson Annual Station and=20 Archives Report =C2=B7 Banquet Speakers Dan Finfrock Railroads in=20 Cincinnati DonWood The Sandusky Branch =C2=B7 =20= =20 Railfan Tours o Rail Expo in Latonia Guided tours of the museum. Will try and have the PRR equipment set up=20 together.Date: Friday, April 30 Time: First run @ 9:30. Second @ 11:00=20= =C2=B7 =20 Non-Rail Tours=20 Riverboat Cruise with Lunch and Aquarium Lunch on a B&B Riverboat, Tour=20 Aquarium, and sightsee Newport on the Levee and the riverfrontDate: Friday,= April=20 30 Time: 10:00 to 6:00=20 Lebanon, Ohio Lunch at the Golden Lamb and self-guided tour of antique=20 storesDate: Saturday May 1 Time: 9:30 =E2=80=93 1:30=C2=B7 =20 Banquet Cincinnati Union Terminal =E2=80=93 Dinner and presentations Grif Teller Exhibition Cincinnati In Motion (historical museum exhibit with themed scale scenes) Tower A at CUT (Cincinnati Railroad Club's eagles' nest high above the rail=20 yards in the Mill Creek Valley) ****************************************************************************= ** ***************** I know there's more plans than this now finalized. For example, our hotel=20 will be the Best Western Springdale, which I stayed at as recently as last=20 spring. I believe the negotiated price is $71, a good one for that part of=20 northern Cincinnati. You should be able to get additional info from Rick Ba= iley at=20 513-523-1034 or his email . Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West=20 --part1_41.389dc9bf.2d2a0e2f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Language: en In a message dated 1/3/04 4:04:19 P= M Eastern Standard Time, weiglin@sbcglobal.net writes:


Rick --

I have been trying to get location information for the Cincinnati PRRT&H= S
convention, and was told that the info would be out in early March.

That's relatively short notice.  (I'd also like to mention it in the ma= gazine.)
Do you know at what hotel/facility the convention will be?

Peter Weiglin
San Mateo, CA
(Associate Editor, Mainline Modeler)


Hi Peter,

I see you're with us on the program.  The Society has released the foll= owing (which can be found at http://www.prrths.com/E%20News/PRR_e-News-Nov20= 03-N38.html):

****************************************************************************= *******************

2004 Cincinnati Chairman Rick Bailey has provided KeN with the= following preliminary information about the 2004 annual meeting in Cincinna= ti (subject to change in final planning). Looks like a great program is comi= ng together for this first ever, west of Pittsburgh event, mark this weekend= on your calendar now - Thursday April 29th  =E2=80=93 Sunday May 2nd.<= /FONT>=

=C2=B7        Programs

Gib Youngblut       &= nbsp;            = ;            &nb= sp;           Cincinnati U= nion Terminal
Al Westerfield          &n= bsp;            =             &nbs= p;        XL Box Cars
Rick Tipton           = ;            &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;           PRR in Lou= isville or PRR in Dayton (I'm augmenting the Louisville one)
Ron Widman           =             &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;         PRR in Columbus
James Hunter          &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;            =           PRR in Indianapolis Rich Berg           &= nbsp;            = ;            &nb= sp;            &= nbsp; Freight Cars
Gary Shaffer          &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;            =            Pittsburgh, You= ngstown and Ashtabula
Mike Havron           = ;            &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;         Colsan and Sandusky Br= anch
Bill Harvey and Gary Salzgaber     Passenger Equipment Jack White           =             &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;            Origi= ns of PRR in Cincinnati
Jon Barker           =             &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;            Lines= West Wooden Structures
Ted Andrews           = ;            &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;        PRR in Warsaw Indiana
Peter Weiglin          &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;            = ;          Pennsy Diesels
Richard Wallace          &= nbsp;            = ;            &nb= sp;     Rail facilities around Terre Haute  (1 =C2= =BD hours)
Elden Gatwood and Al Buchan       Modeling Com= mittee Forum
Bob Johnson           = ;            &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;         Annual Station and Arc= hives Report

=C2=B7        Banquet Speakers=

Dan Finfrock          =             &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;          Railroads in Cinc= innati
DonWood           &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;            = ; The Sandusky Branch =C2=B7       = ;
Railfan Tours
o       Rail Expo in Latonia
Guided tours of the museum.  Will try and have the PRR equipment se= t up together.Date:  Friday, April 30 Time:  First run @ 9:30.&nbs= p; Second @ 11:00 =C2=B7      &n= bsp;

Non-Rail Tours
Riverboat Cruise with Lunch and Aquarium Lunch on a B&B Riverboat, Tour=20= Aquarium, and sightsee Newport on the Levee and the riverfrontDate:  Fr= iday, April 30 Time:  10:00 to 6:00

Lebanon, Ohio Lunch at the Golden Lamb and self-guided tour of antique store= sDate:  Saturday May 1 Time:   9:30 =E2=80=93 1:30=C2=B7 = ;      

Banquet

Cincinnati Union Terminal =E2=80=93 Dinner and presentations
Grif Teller Exhibition
Cincinnati In Motion (historical museum exhibit with themed scale scenes) Tower A at CUT (Cincinnati Railroad Club's eagles' nest high above the rail=20= yards in the Mill Creek Valley)

****************************************************************************= *******************

I know there's more plans than this now finalized.  For example, our ho= tel will be the Best Western Springdale, which I stayed at as recently as la= st spring.  I believe the negotiated price is $71, a good one for that=20= part of northern Cincinnati.  You should be able to get additional info= from Rick Bailey at 513-523-1034 or his email <rb@woh.rr.com>.


           &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO
(Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968)
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   And Remembering PRR Lines West






































































--part1_41.389dc9bf.2d2a0e2f_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 20:04:53 -0500 Subject: RE: [PRR-FAX] Some Cincinnati plans More details on the meeting will be posted on the PRRT&HS website as soon as they are received. I talked with Rick Bailey the other day. They're having a planning meeting today (01-04). I'll try to make contact with Rick tomorrow. More info will hopefully be forthcoming with the January e-NEWS due out 01-16. Al -----Original Message----- From: RickTipton@aol.com [mailto:RickTipton@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 7:48 PM To: weiglin@sbcglobal.net Cc: Rick Bailey; abbuchan1@comcast.net; CandOrail@att.net; jhediger@mrmag.com; davesbooks43015@yahoo.com; jhunter@iupui.edu; LCklarue@aol.com; Larry and Phyllis Morgan; Ogarasteam@aol.com; Vic Paynter; PennsyWest@egroups.com; PRR@yahoogroups.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com; f40ph@fuse.net; Gary Rauch; monon@uscom.com; Patrick.Rose@ae.ge.com; prrsignals@adelphia.net; rmighpr@erols.com; Stuthayer@aol.com; ELTSk8@aol.com; KTTipton@aol.com; Keith Vande Stadt; Tom Vondruska Subject: [PRR-FAX] Some Cincinnati plans In a message dated 1/3/04 4:04:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, weiglin@sbcglobal.net writes: > Rick -- > > I have been trying to get location information for the Cincinnati > PRRT&HS > convention, and was told that the info would be out in early March. > > That's relatively short notice. (I'd also like to mention it in the > magazine.) > Do you know at what hotel/facility the convention will be? > > Peter Weiglin > San Mateo, CA > (Associate Editor, Mainline Modeler) Hi Peter, I see you're with us on the program. The Society has released the following (which can be found at http://www.prrths.com/E%20News/PRR_e-News-Nov2003-N38.html): ************************************************************************ ****** ***************** 2004 Cincinnati Chairman Rick Bailey has provided KeN with the following preliminary information about the 2004 annual meeting in Cincinnati (subject to change in final planning). Looks like a great program is coming together for this first ever, west of Pittsburgh event, mark this weekend on your calendar now - Thursday April 29th - Sunday May 2nd. . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] RE: [PRR-FAX] Some Cincinnati plans Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 20:04:53 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 In-Reply-To: <41.389dc9bf.2d2a0e2f@aol.com> Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: More details on the meeting will be posted on the PRRT&HS website as soon as they are received. I talked with Rick Bailey the other day. They're having a planning meeting today (01-04). I'll try to make contact with Rick tomorrow. More info will hopefully be forthcoming with the January e-NEWS due out 01-16. Al -----Original Message----- From: RickTipton@aol.com [mailto:RickTipton@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 7:48 PM To: weiglin@sbcglobal.net Cc: Rick Bailey; abbuchan1@comcast.net; CandOrail@att.net; jhediger@mrmag.com; davesbooks43015@yahoo.com; jhunter@iupui.edu; LCklarue@aol.com; Larry and Phyllis Morgan; Ogarasteam@aol.com; Vic Paynter; PennsyWest@egroups.com; PRR@yahoogroups.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com; f40ph@fuse.net; Gary Rauch; monon@uscom.com; Patrick.Rose@ae.ge.com; prrsignals@adelphia.net; rmighpr@erols.com; Stuthayer@aol.com; ELTSk8@aol.com; KTTipton@aol.com; Keith Vande Stadt; Tom Vondruska Subject: [PRR-FAX] Some Cincinnati plans In a message dated 1/3/04 4:04:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, weiglin@sbcglobal.net writes: > Rick -- > > I have been trying to get location information for the Cincinnati > PRRT&HS > convention, and was told that the info would be out in early March. > > That's relatively short notice. (I'd also like to mention it in the > magazine.) > Do you know at what hotel/facility the convention will be? > > Peter Weiglin > San Mateo, CA > (Associate Editor, Mainline Modeler) Hi Peter, I see you're with us on the program. The Society has released the following (which can be found at http://www.prrths.com/E%20News/PRR_e-News-Nov2003-N38.html): ************************************************************************ ****** ***************** 2004 Cincinnati Chairman Rick Bailey has provided KeN with the following preliminary information about the 2004 annual meeting in Cincinnati (subject to change in final planning). Looks like a great program is coming together for this first ever, west of Pittsburgh event, mark this weekend on your calendar now - Thursday April 29th - Sunday May 2nd. . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 20:28:05 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR P85br coaches Is anyone installing lighting in the new Centralia coaches (HO) that is compatible with DCC? Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1073266085 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
  Is anyone installing lighting in the new Centralia coaches (HO)=20= that is compatible with DCC?

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1073266085-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 21:37:31 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR GP35 phases I need a little help. The first GP35's which the PRR ordered were phase 1a. Where in the GP35 number series did the phase 1a body types end. TIA Rich Orr --part1_47.37aa4e40.2d2a27eb_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" I need a little help.  The fir= st GP35's which the PRR ordered were phase 1a.  Where in the GP35 numbe= r series did the phase 1a body types end.

TIA

Rich Orr --part1_47.37aa4e40.2d2a27eb_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Alco PB's Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 08:28:52 -0500 I seem to remember the 5756B as being a single stripe Tuscan paint job, not 5758B. Could be wrong, but it'll be the first time. -----Original Message----- From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com [mailto:TGREGMRTN@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 3:27 PM To: ndbprr@att.net; Prr-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Alco PB's Norm Bell writes: > Did these remain DGLE with five stripes for their entire life or were they repainted? Did any ever make it to DGLE single stripe? > Thanks Norm and all, All the ALCo PB_1's started out in DGLE 5 stripes and were repainted into Tuscan with 5 stripe with on unit repainted into Sinle Broad Stripe/Billboard lettering. None were painted DGLE single stripe. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C3D365.F44E5DC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
I seem=20 to remember the 5756B as being a single stripe Tuscan paint job, not=20 5758B.  Could be wrong, but it'll be the first = time.
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 TGREGMRTN@aol.com [mailto:TGREGMRTN@aol.com]
Sent: = Wednesday,=20 December 31, 2003 3:27 PM
To: ndbprr@att.net;=20 Prr-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: Re: [PRR] Alco = PB's

Norm Bell writes:

> Did these remain DGLE = with five=20 stripes for their entire life or were they repainted?  Did any = ever make=20 it to DGLE single stripe? 
> Thanks

Norm and = all,

All=20 the ALCo PB_1's started out in DGLE 5 stripes and were repainted into = Tuscan=20 with 5 stripe with on unit repainted into Sinle Broad Stripe/Billboard = lettering. None were painted DGLE single stripe.

Greg=20 = Martin 

-----------------------------------------------------= ------------------
For=20 assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

<= /P>

------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C3D365.F44E5DC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 09:17:17 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Forum for Southcentral Pennsylvania Model Railroads From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: By request, I've added a forum for "Southcentral Pennsylvania Model Railroads" to my new Forum site... http://forum.pennsyrr.com:8010/forum/ This new forum is a place where layout operators within 30 miles of Harrisburg, York, and Lancaster can share experiences and announce work sessions, operating sessions, and open houses. A few of us have discussed creating in southcentral Pennsylvania an annual open house tour event like the one held in southeastern, Pa., every November. They are now over 100 layouts. This new forum will be a venue to find out what other layouts are out there... regardless of road modeled. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 06:21:34 -0800 From: Peter Weiglin Subject: [PRR] Re: Some Cincinnati plans Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Thank you, guys. I hope that by now you know that BOTH Kenneth Douglas and Peter Weiglin (who co-authored the book) will be presenting the clinic on Pennsy Diesels. Please add Ken's name to the list of presenters; I feel lonely on that list. I am looking forward to this meeting! It'll also give me a chance to see how Cincinnati has changed snce we lived there. Peter Weiglin San Mateo, CA = = = = RickTipton@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/3/04 4:04:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, > weiglin@sbcglobal.net writes: > > >>Rick -- >> >>I have been trying to get location information for the Cincinnati PRRT&HS >>convention, and was told that the info would be out in early March. >> >>That's relatively short notice. (I'd also like to mention it in the >>magazine.) >>Do you know at what hotel/facility the convention will be? >> >>Peter Weiglin >>San Mateo, CA >>(Associate Editor, Mainline Modeler) > > > Hi Peter, > > I see you're with us on the program. The Society has released the following > (which can be found at > http://www.prrths.com/E%20News/PRR_e-News-Nov2003-N38.html): > > ****************************************************************************** > ***************** > > 2004 Cincinnati Chairman Rick Bailey has provided KeN with the following > preliminary information about the 2004 annual meeting in Cincinnati (subject to > change in final planning). Looks like a great program is coming together for > this first ever, west of Pittsburgh event, mark this weekend on your calendar now > - Thursday April 29th – Sunday May 2nd. > > · Programs > > Gib Youngblut Cincinnati Union > Terminal > Al Westerfield XL Box Cars > Rick Tipton PRR in Louisville > or PRR in Dayton (I'm augmenting the Louisville one) > Ron Widman PRR in Columbus > James Hunter PRR in Indianapolis > Rich Berg Freight Cars > Gary Shaffer Pittsburgh, > Youngstown and Ashtabula > Mike Havron Colsan and Sandusky > Branch > Bill Harvey and Gary Salzgaber Passenger Equipment > Jack White Origins of PRR in > Cincinnati > Jon Barker Lines West Wooden > Structures > Ted Andrews PRR in Warsaw Indiana > Peter Weiglin Pennsy Diesels > Richard Wallace Rail facilities > around Terre Haute (1 ½ hours) > Elden Gatwood and Al Buchan Modeling Committee Forum > Bob Johnson Annual Station and > Archives Report > > · Banquet Speakers > > Dan Finfrock Railroads in > Cincinnati > DonWood The Sandusky Branch · > Railfan Tours > o Rail Expo in Latonia > Guided tours of the museum. Will try and have the PRR equipment set up > together.Date: Friday, April 30 Time: First run @ 9:30. Second @ 11:00 · > > Non-Rail Tours > Riverboat Cruise with Lunch and Aquarium Lunch on a B&B Riverboat, Tour > Aquarium, and sightsee Newport on the Levee and the riverfrontDate: Friday, April > 30 Time: 10:00 to 6:00 > > Lebanon, Ohio Lunch at the Golden Lamb and self-guided tour of antique > storesDate: Saturday May 1 Time: 9:30 – 1:30· > > Banquet > > Cincinnati Union Terminal – Dinner and presentations > Grif Teller Exhibition > Cincinnati In Motion (historical museum exhibit with themed scale scenes) > Tower A at CUT (Cincinnati Railroad Club's eagles' nest high above the rail > yards in the Mill Creek Valley) > > ****************************************************************************** > ***************** > > I know there's more plans than this now finalized. For example, our hotel > will be the Best Western Springdale, which I stayed at as recently as last > spring. I believe the negotiated price is $71, a good one for that part of > northern Cincinnati. You should be able to get additional info from Rick Bailey at > 513-523-1034 or his email . > > > Rick Tipton - Louisville KY > Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO > (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) > And Remembering PRR Lines West > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Peter Weiglin Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 06:21:34 -0800 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: Some Cincinnati plans Thank you, guys. I hope that by now you know that BOTH Kenneth Douglas and Peter Weiglin (who co-authored the book) will be presenting the clinic on Pennsy Diesels. Please add Ken's name to the list of presenters; I feel lonely on that list. I am looking forward to this meeting! It'll also give me a chance to see how Cincinnati has changed snce we lived there. Peter Weiglin San Mateo, CA = = = = "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: [PRR] Feedback on Clinics at Meets Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:07:06 -0800 Feedback on Clinics at Meets

Hi all!
I hope you all had a great weekend and = holidays.

Also, I hope you all have a chance to look at the = latest issue of TKM. Tell us what you think, and what you'd like to see = in the future.

I am also very interested in what types of = clinics/presentations you all like best.  What would you like to = learn about?  Building kits?  Scratchbuilding?  = Kitbashing?  Weathering? Detailing?  Research?  Who = really lit your fire?

Thanks for any feedback!

Elden

------_=_NextPart_001_01C3D3BF.1C3140B0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: [PRR] RE: PRR "one-off" cars Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:21:43 -0800

Hi = folks;

 

=

I was wondering if any of you knew anything about a few PRR cars that were modified for = other-than-original service, and where one might see a photo or obtain some info?

 

=

PRR GTC26 (door openings): = Apparently these cars might have had door openings made from old running = boards.  Or not!  Anyone know or have seen a photo of same with the door filled in with whatever?  Does anyone know where I could = get a pre-one-piece-body Westy X26 = kit?

 

=

"Pulpwood" G28 with extended sides and ends:  Ditto for = this guy, except the ends are stated as having been running boards.  Were the sides ex-H21a sides like the scrap gons?  Ever seen a photo of this rare = bird?

 

=

How about the X31's with the roof removed for coke service.  = Anyone seen a photo of these oddballs?  = I know someone made a resin kit of this car.  Did it have a photo with the kit?  Anyone have one?

 

=

Thanks for any = feedback!

 

=

Elden = Gatwood

 

=

 


------_=_NextPart_001_01C3D3C1.27477850-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Cprrboss@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 16:29:19 EST Subject: [PRR] X-54 Boxcar - Bob Martin In case any of you missed it, the RR Museum of PA has acquired a PRR X-54 Boxcar in remarkably good condition. Here's a link. Click here: RR Museum of PA - X-54 Boxcar BOB MARTIN, President & Superintendent Central Pennsylvania Railroad (CPRR) (HO Scale) --part1_8.4333274e.2d2b312f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In case any of you missed it, the RR Muse= um of PA has acquired a PRR X-54 Boxcar in remarkably good condition.  = Here's a link.

Click her= e: RR Museum of PA - X-54 Boxcar


BOB MARTIN, President & Superintendent
Central Pennsylvania Railroad (CPRR) (HO Scale<= /FONT>= )

    
--part1_8.4333274e.2d2b312f_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRR "one-off" cars Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 21:39:52 +0000 From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: PRR "one-off" cars Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 13:57:14 -0800 From: b.hom@att.net [mailto:b.hom@att.net] Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRR "one-off" cars RE: [PRR] RE: PRR "one-off" cars

Thank you, Ben!  Well done!  I will keep = all that in mind as I look.

Oh, I am now thinking that that X31 was a West Shore = (sp?) kit?

Elden

-----Original Message-----
From: b.hom@att.net [mailto:b.hom@att.net]
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 1:40 PM
To: ELDEN GATWOOD
Cc: 'PRR Talk'
Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRR "one-off" = cars

Elden Gatwood asked:
"PRR GTC26 (door openings): Does anyone know = where I could get a pre-one-
piece-body Westy X26 kit?"

Al Westerfield bought back Walthers' stock of his = kits, so he might still
have some in stock (westerfield@multipro.com).  = The kits also pop up on eBay
every now and then, and there are still some here = and there lurking on dusty
hobby shop shelves out there.  Two notes of = caution:

- If you go into the secondary market, beware early = production run kits made
of the old resin material, which is very dark gray = in color and not very
flexible compared with later castings.  It will = still build into an
outstanding kit, but this material is more brittle = and a little more
difficult to work with.

- You'll need to cut a door opening into the = sides.
 
Al sells his X26 decals separately, so any roadname = will do if you're
planning on setting aside the roof and doors and = doing an AB brake upgrade. 
(You can use the kit's decals for another project, = especially a Tichy USRA SS
boxcar as they came without decals!)  The Tichy = car is another option.  The
kitbash is more complicated than using a flat kit = because you'll have to cut
away the roof, but the door openings are already = there.  The Tichy kits
definitely lurk on those dusty shelves - it seems = every hobby shop has at
least one in dead stock.  ;-)


"How about the X31's with the roof removed for = coke service?  I know someone
made a resin kit of this car.  Did it have a = photo with the kit?  Anyone have
one?"

If anyone made a resin kit of the X31 coke service = cars, it's news to me. 
Sunshine offered a series of resin Class X31 cars = (10.1 - 10.8) which have
long been discontinued.  Though he included = both single and double door
versions and a Class X31F car, Martin never offered = the coke service cars.

---------------------------------------------------------------= --------
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C3D3D6.E0CD7850-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 15:10:58 -0700 From: "Dave Mittner" Subject: [PRR] Name the Painting...Time to Vote List, The time for submitting title names for the painting is over, and I = apologize for not being able to pare the list of 87 excellent entries = down to only 5 for the voting stage. Instead, I offer my selection of, = what I think are, the 11 best candidates. Each and every submission = I've received has had its own credibility to be the name for this piece. = I've gotten chuckles, chills and deep emotions from what this list has = offered. Several title submissions have even inspired me to create = future work specifically for them. I thank all of you who participated. = It was nice to even see some list members join in who rarely = participate in the daily conversations that take place in this great = format. Your job is not done yet. Over the next couple of days you are = being asked to vote for one of the eleven names listed below. Voting = will commence from the time you receive this posting until midnight = (Arizona time) on Wednesday the 7th. I would like you to place your = vote through PRR-talk so that all votes are seen by the members, but if = you wish to remain anonymous, you can also contact me off-list with the = assurance that all votes will be accounted for. Please ONE vote per = member only. Except for the first title listed in a posting with = multiple choices, all subsequent titles will be ignored. If you would = like to tell why you voted for a particular title, feel free to do so. = Here is the link to the painting if you need to view it again before = making your final decision: =20 http://www.users.qwest.net/~mittner/T1.jpg I will post the results of the voting on Thursday. In case of a = tie, I will cast the deciding vote. Good luck to the finalists and may = the best title win. David B Mittner PRRT&HS member #6699 Dave's Railroad Art Gallery : = http://www.users.qwest.net/~mittner/davesart.html =20 =20 In no particular order, here are my final candidates with a bit of an = explanation why: -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- "...And With A Bone In Her Teeth" Usually used as a nautical analogy referring to the shape of the white = roiling water being sliced by the hull of a fast moving vessel, I see = where this title would accurately describe the spraying snow seen in = front of this powerful T1. "A Keystone Winter" The definitive symbol of the PRR and the fact that it is a prominent = element in the painting itself makes it a fitting title. "Dashing Through The Snow" Simple, to the point and perfect for the title of a Christmas card = image. My challenge to you though, is to try and say it without out = singing it or wanting to finish the song. LOL "Christmas Rush" Usually I don't pay attention to anything my brother Gary says, but I = will make an exception in this case. His suggestion not only would make = another great title for an image used as a Christmas card, but the fact = that I wanted to finish this painting before Christmas gives it a double = meaning for me. "Heading Home For The Holidays" & "Almost Home" Not only are these two more great Christmas card candidates but they = also spark that nostalgic feeling people experience at that time of = year. "Trail Blazer" Very fitting since this painting could very well be depicting Train #77 = or #78 of the same name. This title also describes the image nicely. "Winter Thunder" & "Power And Resolve" Both, wonderful. Powerful and dramatic names for a powerful and = dramatic scene. Describes the Pennsy T1 to a T. (Pardon the pun.) "Still On Time" When I read this suggestion for the first time, I got the shivers. This = title obviously refers to the fact that even while struggling with the = elements, the train will ultimately make its arrival on schedule. = However, with "On Time", painted in 1932, being one of my favorite Grif = Teller paintings, I would almost feel obligated to change the title to = read "Still "ON TIME"" if it were chosen. "Plowing Down the Broad Way" Another powerful suggestion that captures the essence of the = Pennsylvania Railroad. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Recap of the eleven names you will be voting on: Listed in this order only because it portrays the contour of a T1s nose = as seen from above.(Must be the artist in me) "PLOWING DOWN THE BROAD WAY" "DASHING THROUGH THE SNOW" "A KEYSTONE WINTER" "CHRISTMAS RUSH" "STILL ON TIME" "TRAIL BLAZER" "ALMOST HOME" "WINTER THUNDER" "POWER AND RESOLVE" "..AND WITH A BONE IN HER TEETH" "HEADING HOME FOR THE HOLIDAYS" ------=_NextPart_000_07FA_01C3D39E.1FCFC730 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
List,
    The=20 time for submitting title names for the painting is over, and I = apologize=20 for not being able to pare the list of 87 excellent entries down to only = 5 for=20 the voting stage.  Instead, I offer my selection of, what I think = are, the=20 11 best candidates.  Each and every submission I've received has = had its=20 own credibility to be the name for this piece.  I've gotten = chuckles,=20 chills and deep emotions from what this list has offered.  Several = title=20 submissions have even inspired me to create future work = specifically for=20 them.  I thank all of you who participated.  It was nice = to=20 even see some list members join in who rarely participate in the = daily=20 conversations that take place in this great format.
    Your=20 job is not done yet.  Over the next couple of days you are = being asked=20 to vote for one of the eleven names listed below.  Voting will = commence=20 from the time you receive this posting until midnight (Arizona time) on=20 Wednesday the 7th.  I would like you to place your vote = through=20 PRR-talk so that all votes are seen by the members, but if you wish to = remain=20 anonymous, you can also contact me off-list with the assurance that all = votes=20 will be accounted for. Please ONE vote per member only.  = Except for=20 the first title listed in a posting with multiple choices, all=20 subsequent titles will be ignored.  If you would like to tell = why you=20 voted for a particular title, feel free to do so.  Here is the link = to the=20 painting if you need to view it again before making your final=20 decision:  
http://www.users.qwes= t.net/~mittner/T1.jpg
    I will=20 post the results of the voting on Thursday.  In case of a tie, I = will cast=20 the deciding vote. Good=20 luck to the finalists and may the best title win.
 
David B=20 Mittner
PRRT&HS  member=20 #6699
Dave's Railroad = Art=20 Gallery :  http://www.use= rs.qwest.net/~mittner/davesart.html =20
 
 =20

In = no=20 particular order, here are my final candidates with a bit of an = explanation=20 why:

 

 

 

"...And = With A Bone=20 In Her Teeth"

 

Usually used as a nautical = analogy=20 referring to the shape of the white roiling water being sliced by the = hull of a=20 fast moving vessel, I see where this title would accurately = describe=20 the spraying snow seen in front of this powerful T1.

 

"A = Keystone=20 Winter"

 

The definitive symbol of = the PRR and=20 the fact that it is a prominent element in the painting itself makes it = a=20 fitting title.

 

"Dashing = Through=20 The Snow"

 

Simple, to the point and = perfect for=20 the title of a Christmas card image.  My challenge to you though, = is to try=20 and say it without out singing it or wanting to finish the song. =20 LOL

 

"Christmas=20 Rush"

 

Usually I don't pay = attention to=20 anything my brother Gary says, but I will make an = exception=20 in this case.  His suggestion not only would make another great = title for=20 an image used as a Christmas card, but the fact that I wanted to = finish=20 this painting before Christmas gives it a double meaning for=20 me.

 

"Heading = Home For=20 The Holidays"   &  =20 "Almost Home"

 

Not only are these two=20 more great Christmas card candidates but they also spark that = nostalgic=20 feeling people experience at that time of year.

 

"Trail=20 Blazer"

 

Very fitting = since this=20 painting could very well be depicting Train #77 or #78 of = the=20 same name. This title also describes the image = nicely.

 

"Winter=20 Thunder"   &   "Power=20 And Resolve"

 

Both, wonderful.  = Powerful and=20 dramatic names for a powerful and dramatic scene.  Describes the = Pennsy T1=20 to a T. (Pardon the pun.)

 

"Still On = Time"

 

When I read this = suggestion for the=20 first time, I got the shivers.  This title obviously refers to the = fact=20 that even while struggling with the elements, the train will = ultimately=20 make its arrival on schedule.  However, with "On Time", painted in = 1932,=20 being one of my favorite Grif Teller paintings, I would almost feel = obligated to=20 change the title to read "Still "ON TIME"" if it were chosen.

 

"Plowing = Down the=20 Broad=20 Way"

 

Another powerful = suggestion=20 that  captures the essence  of the Pennsylvania = Railroad.

 

 

Recap of the eleven names = you will=20 be voting on:

Listed in this order only = because it=20 portrays the contour of a T1s nose as seen from above.(Must be the = artist=20 in me)

 

 

"PLOWING   DOWN  THE  = BROAD=20 WAY"
"DASHING  THROUGH  THE=20 SNOW"
"A KEYSTONE WINTER"

"CHRISTMAS RUSH"
"STILL  ON TIME"
"TRAIL=20 BLAZER"
"ALMOST HOME"
"WINTER THUNDER"
"POWER AND = RESOLVE"
"..AND=20 WITH A BONE IN HER TEETH"
"HEADING  HOME  FOR =  THE =20 HOLIDAYS"
------=_NextPart_000_07FA_01C3D39E.1FCFC730-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:35:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] X-54 Boxcar - Bob Martin MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bob.. Thanks for the info. That boxcar sat in PRR's old Midvale (Phila, next to the Budd Co.) yard for years. It was set out on an old siding during the early PC days. I work right across the street from the yard and one day it was gone. Glad it's got a new home. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KLJURY@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:55:24 EST Subject: [PRR] Name the painting I vote for "Power and Resolve" -------------------------------1073343323 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" I vote for "Power and Resolve" -------------------------------1073343323-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Frank Brua" Subject: [PRR] HO P85 Trucks Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:56:30 -0500 Latest Intermountain dealer newsletter advises that the CCS trucks used = on the HO P85 coaches will be made available separately. Are there = other Pennsy lightweight cars these trucks are suitable for? Thanks. Frank Brua ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C3D3BD.A14D8E40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Latest Intermountain dealer newsletter = advises that=20 the CCS trucks used on the HO P85 coaches will be made available=20 separately.  Are there other  Pennsy lightweight cars these = trucks are=20 suitable for?  Thanks.
 
Frank Brua
------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C3D3BD.A14D8E40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:27:11 -0500 From: Dale Dembinski Subject: Re: [PRR] Name the Painting...Time to Vote One vote for: Still "ON TIME" I thought this was an appropriate name for the painting because it works at several levels, just like the painting's scene can be interpreted in different ways: 1. To the PRR-knowledgeable, the painting title draws great strength from a sort of continuation/update from the 1932 "On Time" painting. Grif Teller's "On Time" painting showed K4 engines from the early 1930s....and yet ten or so years later in this painting, with new T1 power at the head end, during a snowstorm, the PRR's passenger service continues the legacy - and is Still "ON TIME". 2. From a general viewpoint, being "On Time" was a matter of performance and immense pride by the crew - synchronizing watches, following schedules, and pushing the speed limits when necessary. This painting shows the efforts by the locomotive and crew to make this particular run during adverse weather conditions. The weather might be making the job more difficult than usual, but they are rushing along, struggling to remain Still "ON TIME". 3. The locomotive is clean, but not freshly painted and shiny. So perhaps this painting is capturing a scene during the war years, or when diesel power had started to appear, and spit-and-polish cleaning just wasn't happening anymore on the T1's. But the locomotive was still performing as Altoona intended, still doing its job, and Still "ON TIME". I have to say that all of the submissions were absolutely excellent. Dave, thanks for the opportunity to participate. This is fun! Dale Dave Mittner wrote: > List, > The time for submitting title names for the painting is over, and > I apologize for not being able to pare the list of 87 excellent > entries down to only 5 for the voting stage. Instead, I offer my > selection of, what I think are, the 11 best candidates. Each and > every submission I've received has had its own credibility to be the > name for this piece. I've gotten chuckles, chills and deep emotions > from what this list has offered. Several title submissions have even > inspired me to create future work specifically for them. I thank all > of you who participated. It was nice to even see some list members > join in who rarely participate in the daily conversations that take > place in this great format. > Your job is not done yet. Over the next couple of days you are > being asked to vote for one of the eleven names listed below. Voting > will commence from the time you receive this posting until midnight > (Arizona time) on Wednesday the 7th. I would like you to place your > vote through PRR-talk so that all votes are seen by the members, but > if you wish to remain anonymous, you can also contact me off-list with > the assurance that all votes will be accounted for. Please ONE vote > per member only. Except for the first title listed in a posting with > multiple choices, all subsequent titles will be ignored. If you would > like to tell why you voted for a particular title, feel free to do > so. Here is the link to the painting if you need to view it again > before making your final decision: > http://www.users.qwest.net/~mittner/T1.jpg > > I will post the results of the voting on Thursday. In case of a > tie, I will cast the deciding vote. Good luck to the finalists and may > the best title win. > > David B Mittner > PRRT&HS member #6699 > Dave's Railroad Art Gallery : > http://www.users.qwest.net/~mittner/davesart.html > > > > > *In no particular order, here are my final candidates with a bit of an > explanation why:* > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > *"...And With A Bone In Her Teeth"* > > > > Usually used as a nautical analogy referring to the shape of the white > roiling water being sliced by the hull of a fast moving vessel, I see > where this title would accurately describe the spraying snow seen in > front of this powerful T1. > > > > *"A Keystone Winter"* > > > > The definitive symbol of the PRR and the fact that it is a prominent > element in the painting itself makes it a fitting title. > > > > *"Dashing Through The Snow"* > > > > Simple, to the point and perfect for the title of a Christmas card > image. My challenge to you though, is to try and say it without out > singing it or wanting to finish the song. LOL > > > > *"Christmas Rush"* > > > > Usually I don't pay attention to anything my brother Gary says, but I > will make an exception in this case. His suggestion not only would > make another great title for an image used as a Christmas card, but > the fact that I wanted to finish this painting before Christmas gives > it a double meaning for me. > > > > *"Heading Home For The Holidays" *&* "Almost Home"* > > > > Not only are these two more great Christmas card candidates but they > also spark that nostalgic feeling people experience at that time of year. > > > > *"Trail Blazer"* > > > > Very fitting since this painting could very well be depicting Train > #77 or #78 of the same name. This title also describes the image nicely. > > > > *"Winter Thunder" *&* "Power And Resolve"* > > > > Both, wonderful. Powerful and dramatic names for a powerful and > dramatic scene. Describes the Pennsy T1 to a T. (Pardon the pun.) > > > > *"Still On Time"* > > > > When I read this suggestion for the first time, I got the shivers. > This title obviously refers to the fact that even while struggling > with the elements, the train will ultimately make its arrival on > schedule. However, with "On Time", painted in 1932, being one of my > favorite Grif Teller paintings, I would almost feel obligated to > change the title to read "Still "ON TIME"" if it were chosen. > > > > *"Plowing Down the **Broad Way**"* > > > > Another powerful suggestion that captures the essence of the > Pennsylvania Railroad. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > *Recap of the eleven names you will be voting on:* > > Listed in this order only because it portrays the contour of a T1s > nose as seen from above.(Must be the artist in me) > > > > > > "PLOWING DOWN THE BROAD WAY" > "DASHING THROUGH THE SNOW" > "A KEYSTONE WINTER" > > "CHRISTMAS RUSH" > "STILL ON TIME" > "TRAIL BLAZER" > "ALMOST HOME" > "WINTER THUNDER" > "POWER AND RESOLVE" > "..AND WITH A BONE IN HER TEETH" > "HEADING HOME FOR THE HOLIDAYS" --------------080203040909080305000301 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii One vote for:

Still "ON TIME"

I thought this was an appropriate name for the painting because it works at several levels, just like the painting's scene can be interpreted in different ways:

1.  To the PRR-knowledgeable, the painting title draws great strength from a sort of continuation/update from the 1932 "On Time" painting.  Grif Teller's "On Time" painting showed K4 engines from the early 1930s....and yet ten or so years later in this painting, with new T1 power at the head end, during a snowstorm, the PRR's passenger service continues the legacy - and is Still "ON TIME". 

2. From a general viewpoint, being "On Time" was a matter of performance and immense pride by the crew - synchronizing watches, following schedules, and pushing the speed limits when necessary. This painting shows the efforts by the locomotive and crew to make this particular run during adverse weather conditions.  The weather might be making the job more difficult than usual, but they are rushing along, struggling to remain Still "ON TIME".

3.  The locomotive is clean, but not freshly painted and shiny.  So perhaps this painting is capturing a scene during the war years, or when diesel power had started to appear, and spit-and-polish cleaning just wasn't happening anymore on the T1's.  But the locomotive was still performing as Altoona intended, still doing its job, and Still "ON TIME".

I have to say that all of the submissions were absolutely excellent.

Dave, thanks for the opportunity to participate.  This is fun!

Dale

Dave Mittner wrote:
List,
    The time for submitting title names for the painting is over, and I apologize for not being able to pare the list of 87 excellent entries down to only 5 for the voting stage.  Instead, I offer my selection of, what I think are, the 11 best candidates.  Each and every submission I've received has had its own credibility to be the name for this piece.  I've gotten chuckles, chills and deep emotions from what this list has offered.  Several title submissions have even inspired me to create future work specifically for them.  I thank all of you who participated.  It was nice to even see some list members join in who rarely participate in the daily conversations that take place in this great format.
    Your job is not done yet.  Over the next couple of days you are being asked to vote for one of the eleven names listed below.  Voting will commence from the time you receive this posting until midnight (Arizona time) on Wednesday the 7th.  I would like you to place your vote through PRR-talk so that all votes are seen by the members, but if you wish to remain anonymous, you can also contact me off-list with the assurance that all votes will be accounted for. Please ONE vote per member only.  Except for the first title listed in a posting with multiple choices, all subsequent titles will be ignored.  If you would like to tell why you voted for a particular title, feel free to do so.  Here is the link to the painting if you need to view it again before making your final decision:  
    I will post the results of the voting on Thursday.  In case of a tie, I will cast the deciding vote. Good luck to the finalists and may the best title win.
 
David B Mittner
PRRT&HS  member #6699
Dave's Railroad Art Gallery :  http://www.users.qwest.net/~mittner/davesart.html 
 
 

In no particular order, here are my final candidates with a bit of an explanation why:

 

 

 

"...And With A Bone In Her Teeth"

 

Usually used as a nautical analogy referring to the shape of the white roiling water being sliced by the hull of a fast moving vessel, I see where this title would accurately describe the spraying snow seen in front of this powerful T1.

 

"A Keystone Winter"

 

The definitive symbol of the PRR and the fact that it is a prominent element in the painting itself makes it a fitting title.

 

"Dashing Through The Snow"

 

Simple, to the point and perfect for the title of a Christmas card image.  My challenge to you though, is to try and say it without out singing it or wanting to finish the song.  LOL

 

"Christmas Rush"

 

Usually I don't pay attention to anything my brother Gary says, but I will make an exception in this case.  His suggestion not only would make another great title for an image used as a Christmas card, but the fact that I wanted to finish this painting before Christmas gives it a double meaning for me.

 

"Heading Home For The Holidays"   &   "Almost Home"

 

Not only are these two more great Christmas card candidates but they also spark that nostalgic feeling people experience at that time of year.

 

"Trail Blazer"

 

Very fitting since this painting could very well be depicting Train #77 or #78 of the same name. This title also describes the image nicely.

 

"Winter Thunder"   &   "Power And Resolve"

 

Both, wonderful.  Powerful and dramatic names for a powerful and dramatic scene.  Describes the Pennsy T1 to a T. (Pardon the pun.)

 

"Still On Time"

 

When I read this suggestion for the first time, I got the shivers.  This title obviously refers to the fact that even while struggling with the elements, the train will ultimately make its arrival on schedule.  However, with "On Time", painted in 1932, being one of my favorite Grif Teller paintings, I would almost feel obligated to change the title to read "Still "ON TIME"" if it were chosen.

 

"Plowing Down the Broad Way"

 

Another powerful suggestion that  captures the essence  of the Pennsylvania Railroad.

 

 

Recap of the eleven names you will be voting on:

Listed in this order only because it portrays the contour of a T1s nose as seen from above.(Must be the artist in me)

 

 

"PLOWING   DOWN  THE  BROAD WAY"
"DASHING  THROUGH  THE SNOW"
"A KEYSTONE WINTER"

"CHRISTMAS RUSH"
"STILL  ON TIME"
"TRAIL BLAZER"
"ALMOST HOME"
"WINTER THUNDER"
"POWER AND RESOLVE"
"..AND WITH A BONE IN HER TEETH"
"HEADING  HOME  FOR  THE  HOLIDAYS"
--------------080203040909080305000301-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:28:42 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR station at South Charleston In a message dated 1/4/04 7:58:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: re: South Charleston Station > From: > Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 11:47:28 -0500 > > Hi There! I am interested in any information concerning the Columbus > Division, South Charleston passenger station on the old C&X line. I know it > was located on the North side of the main tracks and it sat just West of > Church Street. I have track maps showing that between the DT&I diamonds > and Church Street, there were only two 'switches' coming off the West bound > main to the North. If that is the case, then the 'station' track, was just > a short stub? Any information or photos of this area would be greatly > appreciated. > > Thanks > > Gary Cost > Gary, I will keep you in mind. S. Charleston's station was brick. Right now my slides from Columbus to Xenia are buried, but they will have to come out soon -- I'm developing a layout plan for said stretch. OTOH, any station pix I have are from the '70s. Hope there are more (earlier) pictures out there somewhere. Do you have good pix of the South Charleston tower? I'd sure like to see images of it showing the wood sheathing and framing in the era preceding the pale green asbestos siding (although that's all I ever knew). Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_1d8.17e4591d.2d2b5b3a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 1/4/04 7:58:13 P= M Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:


Subject: re: South Charleston S= tation
From: <GCOST@columbus.rr.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 11:47:28 -0500

Hi There!  I am interested in any information concerning the Columbus Division, South Charleston passenger station on the old C&X line. =20= I know it
was located on the North side of the main tracks and it sat just West of
Church Street.  I have track maps  showing that between the DT&= ;I diamonds
and Church Street,  there were only two 'switches' coming off the West=20= bound
main to the North.  If that is the case, then the 'station' track, was=20= just
a short stub?  Any information or photos of this area would be greatly<= BR> appreciated.

Thanks

Gary Cost


Gary,

I will keep you in mind.  S. Charleston's station was brick.  Righ= t now my slides from Columbus to Xenia are buried, but they will have to com= e out soon -- I'm developing a layout plan for said stretch.

OTOH, any station pix I have are from the '70s.  Hope there are more (e= arlier) pictures out there somewhere.  Do you have good pix of the Sout= h Charleston tower?  I'd sure like to see images of it showing the wood= sheathing and framing in the era preceding the pale green asbestos siding (= although that's all I ever knew).

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_1d8.17e4591d.2d2b5b3a_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chuck Friedlein" Subject: [PRR] Name the Painting Vote Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:39:35 -0500 My choice is DASHING THROUGH THE SNOW ------=_NextPart_000_0097_01C3D3C3.A5CA7C20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
My choice is  DASHING THROUGH THE = SNOW

------=_NextPart_000_0097_01C3D3C3.A5CA7C20-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dave West" Subject: [PRR] Name the picture vote Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:58:34 -0600 Message-Id: <1A1F4865-3FE5-11D8-9A2F-000A9570A806@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Athearn Has Been Acquired Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:10:22 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Athearn has been acquired by a wholesaler. While I don't give a rat's=20 butt about the regular Athearn line, I worry about the Athearn Genesis=20= line. My experience with manufacturers owned by wholesalers is that it is a=20 bad combo. They make the lines exclusive, then provide crappy wholesale=20= service. Case in point: Branchline is owned by Hobby Stores=20 Distributing. Notice I don't carry Branchline...HSD is populated by=20 arrogant idiots! Original source: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: HORIZON HOBBY, INC. ACQUIRES ATHEARN TRAINS 01.05.04 Champaign, IL=97Horizon Hobby, Inc. is pleased to announce that it has purchased Athearn Trains of Compton, CA, a leading manufacturer of model train products. Athearn=92s headquarters will remain in southern=20 California under the continued leadership of its President, Tim Geddes, who has=20 been an executive at Athearn since 1994. Product support and warranty repair service will also remain in the Athearn facility, along with product development and manufacturing. Athearn=92s management and staff will remain the same and Athearn=92s=20 production and new release plans will continue uninterrupted throughout the=20 transition, including the production of Athearn=92s traditional =93blue box=94 kits = and=20 it=92s Ready-to-Roll=99, Genesis=99 and Athearn N scale products. The=20 development and production of the exciting, new products is continuing as planned,=20 including the recently announced sound-equipped HO scale =93Challenger=94 steam locomotive, the HO scale SD70 MAC locomotive, the N scale Coalporter=20 and the N scale Automax. The only significant change resulting from the=20 acquisition is that after March 1, 2004, Horizon will become the exclusive=20 distributor of all subsequently released Athearn products and all new production of existing Athearn products. This new business combination, allows two leading companies in the model railroad industry to join together in a unique way. In commenting on=20 this new acquisition and alliance, Horizon Chairman Rick Stephens stated,=20 =93Since we began distributing model train products in 1996, we have been=20 committed to providing model train retailers with the best service and selection.=20= The acquisition of Athearn truly emphasizes how seriously we take that commitment. =46rom its inception in 1943, Athearn has had a reputation = as=20 a pioneer and an innovator serving the model train hobbyist. Athearn=92s sixty-year history of developing and delivering quality and value in=20 model railroading is a perfect fit with Horizon=92s focus on innovation and=20 service. It=92s exciting to think about adding our marketing strengths to the=20 knowledge and expertise of the people of Athearn. We expect great things to come=20= out of this for dealers and the industry, as well as Horizon.=94 Tim Geddes the President of Athearn, Inc. commented, =93We are extremely=20= proud and pleased to be able to form this affiliation and permanent=20 relationship with Horizon Hobby, as we feel it will help Athearn best realize its=20 future potential. Under this new arrangement and structure, we will be able to turn over the major advertising, marketing and distribution efforts to Horizon and use their outstanding expertise for those important=20 activities. We will be able to focus our energies and attention on the continued enhancement and expansion of our product line and on the careful and detailed development of new products to meet the wishes of our=20 customers. As we are maintaining a significant continued involvement in Athearn=92s future, we are especially pleased to join with a company who shares our strong commitment to customer service.=94 ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com= ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRR "one-off" cars Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:23:14 -0500 RE: [PRR] RE: PRR "one-off" carsElden Gatwood asked: "Oh, I am now thinking that that X31 was a West Shore (sp?) kit?" Central Hobby Shop (Syracuse, NY) did indeed offer Class X31F and X32 = kits in their West Shore Line. These are done for them by Funaro, who = did the Sunshine 10-series kits. The West Shore X31F kit might have = been the same kit as the Sunshine kit. At any rate, judging from the builder's photos provided by Bill Lane, a = resin kit would be a poor starting point due to the thickness of the = roof casting. A better course of action would be to start from a Bowser = kit with an inset roof, cut away the roof sections as seen in the photo, = and use a Red Caboose X29 roof (RP-7000-03, $2.75, = http://www.red-caboose.com) for the removable roof sections. You'll = need to cut out the door openings and do some work to the doors to = represent the inside corrugations, but since the rest of the car = retained its wood interior lining, you can simply model that with wood = or styrene. Ben Hom ------=_NextPart_000_0070_01C3D3C9.BEF1A2E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: [PRR] RE: PRR "one-off" cars
Elden Gatwood = asked:
"Oh, I am now thinking that = that X31 was a=20 West Shore (sp?) kit?"
 
Central Hobby Shop (Syracuse, = NY) did=20 indeed offer Class X31F and X32 kits in their West Shore Line.  = These are=20 done for them by Funaro, who did the Sunshine 10-series kits.  The = West=20 Shore X31F kit might have been the same kit as the Sunshine = kit.
 
At any rate, judging from the = builder's=20 photos provided by Bill Lane, a resin kit would be a poor starting point = due to=20 the thickness of the roof casting.  A better course of action would = be to=20 start from a Bowser kit with an inset roof, cut away the roof = sections as=20 seen in the photo, and use a Red Caboose X29 roof (RP-7000-03, = $2.75, http://www.red-caboose.com) for = the=20 removable roof sections.  You'll need to cut out the door = openings and=20 do some work to the doors to represent the inside corrugations, but = since=20 the rest of the car retained its wood interior lining, you can simply = model that=20 with wood or styrene.
 
 
Ben = Hom
------=_NextPart_000_0070_01C3D3C9.BEF1A2E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] Alco PB's Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 21:09:55 -0500 MessageBill, I just checked the one color slide I have of a wide stripe B-unit and it = is 5758B.=20 Jack Consoli=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bill Volkmer=20 To: TGREGMRTN@aol.com ; ndbprr@att.net ; Prr-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 8:28 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] Alco PB's I seem to remember the 5756B as being a single stripe Tuscan paint = job, not 5758B. Could be wrong, but it'll be the first time. -----Original Message----- From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com [mailto:TGREGMRTN@aol.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 3:27 PM To: ndbprr@att.net; Prr-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Alco PB's Norm Bell writes: > Did these remain DGLE with five stripes for their entire life or = were they repainted? Did any ever make it to DGLE single stripe?=20 > Thanks Norm and all, All the ALCo PB_1's started out in DGLE 5 stripes and were repainted = into Tuscan with 5 stripe with on unit repainted into Sinle Broad = Stripe/Billboard lettering. None were painted DGLE single stripe. Greg Martin=20 = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C3D3D0.4496D5E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Message
Bill,
 
I just checked the one color = slide I have=20 of a wide stripe B-unit and it is = 5758B. 
 
Jack Consoli 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bill Volkmer
To: TGREGMRTN@aol.com ; ndbprr@att.net ; Prr-Talk@dsop.com=20
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 = 8:28=20 AM
Subject: RE: [PRR] Alco = PB's

I=20 seem to remember the 5756B as being a single stripe Tuscan paint job, = not=20 5758B.  Could be wrong, but it'll be the first = time.
-----Original Message-----
From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com [mailto:TGREGMRTN@aol.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 3:27 PM
To: = ndbprr@att.net; Prr-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: Re:=20 [PRR] Alco PB's

Norm Bell writes:

> Did these remain = DGLE with=20 five stripes for their entire life or were they repainted?  Did = any=20 ever make it to DGLE single stripe? 
> Thanks

Norm = and=20 all,

All the ALCo PB_1's started out in DGLE 5 stripes and = were=20 repainted into Tuscan with 5 stripe with on unit repainted into = Sinle Broad=20 Stripe/Billboard lettering. None were painted DGLE single=20 stripe.

Greg=20 = Martin 

-----------------------------------------------------= ------------------
For=20 assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

<= /P>

------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C3D3D0.4496D5E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn Has Been Acquired Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 21:20:36 -0500 From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] Registration for 2005 Annual Meeting - Cincinnati Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 21:39:53 -0500 Folks, I just finished talking with Rick Bailey this evening about the 2005 Annual Meeting in Cincinnati. He gave me the following information about room reservations - The event will be held at the Best Western Springdale Hotel and Conference Center, 11911 Sheraton Lane, Springfield, OH 45246 For room reservations call toll free 877-573-6612 and ask for the PRRT&HS rooms @ $75.00/night. Make sure they know it's for the Society event so we don't run into the problem we had last year in Philadelphia. For those flying the hotel is equidistant between the Dayton and Cincinnati airport so go for the best airfare deal. Event registration will be posted as soon as received. Al ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3D3D4.75DC5F90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
Folks,
 
I just finished talking with Rick = Bailey=20 this evening about the 2005 Annual Meeting in Cincinnati.
 
He gave me the following = information about=20 room reservations -
 
The event will be held at the Best = Western=20 Springdale Hotel and Conference Center, 11911 Sheraton Lane, = Springfield, OH=20 45246
 
For room reservations call toll = free=20 877-573-6612 and ask for the PRRT&HS rooms @ $75.00/night. Make sure = they=20 know it's for the Society event so we don't run into the problem we had = last=20 year in Philadelphia.
 
For those flying the hotel is = equidistant=20 between the Dayton and Cincinnati airport so go for the best airfare=20 deal.
 
Event registration will be posted = as soon as=20 received.
 
Al
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3D3D4.75DC5F90-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Reed Kosmal" Subject: Re: [PRR] Name the Painting...Time to Vote Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 21:36:04 -0500 Dave, Thank you for letting us have an advanced showing and a chance to vote = on the name. Reed Kosmal My vote! "Almost Home" ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01C3D3D3.EBD2D950 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dave,
 
Thank you for letting us have an advanced showing and a chance to vote on the=20 name.
 
Reed Kosmal
 
My vote!  "Almost Home"

 

------=_NextPart_000_0040_01C3D3D3.EBD2D950-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] Alco PB's Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 21:40:24 -0500 MessageBill Volkmer wrote: I seem to remember the 5756B as being a single stripe Tuscan paint job, = not 5758B. Could be wrong, but it'll be the first time. There's a first time for everything, Bill. PDY Vol 4, p 70, two David = Sweetland photos of 5758B at Altoona, 12/61 and 1/62. Ben Hom ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C3D3D4.86D465E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Message
Bill Volkmer wrote:
I seem to remember the 5756B as = being a=20 single stripe Tuscan paint job, not 5758B.  Could be wrong, but = it'll be=20 the first time.
 
There's a first time for = everything,=20 Bill.  PDY Vol 4, p 70, two David Sweetland photos of 5758B at = Altoona,=20 12/61 and 1/62.
 
 
Ben Hom
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C3D3D4.86D465E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roy Breon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Name the Painting...Time to Vote Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 21:39:37 -0500 I liked "... And With a Bone in Her Teeth" since I have done some = sailing and am interested in nautical history. However, I feel that a = lot of "viewers" may not appreciate the meaning of that proposed title. = Therefore, I choose "Dashing Through the Snow". Everyone will = understand that one. =20 Roy Breon ------=_NextPart_000_008C_01C3D3D4.6AF870A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
I liked "... And With a Bone in Her = Teeth" =20 since I have done some sailing and am interested in nautical = history. =20 However, I feel that a lot of "viewers" may not appreciate the meaning = of that=20 proposed title.  Therefore, I choose "Dashing Through the = Snow". =20 Everyone will understand that one. 
 
Roy Breon
------=_NextPart_000_008C_01C3D3D4.6AF870A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roy Breon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Name the Painting...Time to Vote Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 21:46:10 -0500 I liked "... And With a Bone in Her Teeth" since I have done some = sailing and am interested in nautical history. However, I feel that a = lot of "viewers" may not appreciate the meaning of that proposed title. = Therefore, I choose "Dashing Through the Snow". Everyone will = understand that one. =20 Roy Breon ------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01C3D3D5.54C1FD00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
I liked "... And With a Bone in Her = Teeth" =20 since I have done some sailing and am interested in nautical = history. =20 However, I feel that a lot of "viewers" may not appreciate the meaning = of that=20 proposed title.  Therefore, I choose "Dashing Through the = Snow". =20 Everyone will understand that one. 
 
Roy Breon
------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01C3D3D5.54C1FD00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KLJURY@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:02:39 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR 643 update Here's an update on the 643 from the January 2004 newsletter of the Harrisburg Chapter NRHS: Williams Grove Historical Steam Engine Assoc. no.643 has been down for rebuilding for over a year. The ex-PRR 0-6-0 B4a was first diagnosed with a bad crown sheet, so the boiler was removed and sent to a shop near Lancaster (not Strasburg's) for work. Once there, a problem with the firebox was also found, so it will be repaired at the same time. Another major repair will be to have the frame straightened. This problem came with the 643 when it was obtained from Phoenix Steel in 1960 and has been around ever since. It explains why the front and rear (cab) of the locomotive always appeared to sag. Since the boiler is off the group decided to fix the frame. Estimated costs of all these projects is $150,000.00 and the Association is requesting donations. Mail them to: WGHSEA, P.O. Box 509, Mechanicsburg, Pa 17055 It looks like this small group of volunteers may be able to get the 643 back under steam again as the only operating PRR steam locomotive long before the 1361!!! -------------------------------1073358159 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Here's an update on the 643 from the January 2004 newsletter of the Har= risburg Chapter
NRHS:
  Williams Grove Historical Steam Engine Assoc. no.643 has been do= wn for rebuilding for
over a year. The ex-PRR 0-6-0 B4a was first diagnosed with a bad crown=20= sheet, so the boiler was removed and sent to a shop near Lancaster (not Stra= sburg's) for work. Once
there, a problem with the firebox was also found, so it will be repaire= d at the same time.
Another major repair will be to have the frame straightened. This probl= em came with the 643 when it was obtained from Phoenix Steel in 1960 and has= been around ever since. It explains why the front and rear (cab) of the loc= omotive always appeared to sag. Since the boiler is off the group decided to= fix the frame. Estimated costs of all these projects is $150,000.00 and the= Association is requesting donations. Mail them to:
WGHSEA, P.O. Box 509, Mechanicsburg, Pa 17055
 
   It looks like this small group of volunteers may be a= ble to get the 643 back under steam
again as the only operating PRR steam locomotive long before the 1361!!= !
-------------------------------1073358159-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "J. Smith" Subject: [PRR] Rivarossi Streamlined Coach Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:03:19 -0500 Any comments on the new, retooled, Rivarossi Smoothside Streamlined = coach? How close is this car to a PRR rebuilt P70 coach? Jeff ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C3D3D7.BA4B43F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Any comments on the new, retooled, = Rivarossi=20 Smoothside Streamlined coach?  How close is this car to a PRR = rebuilt P70=20 coach?
 
Jeff
------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C3D3D7.BA4B43F0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 21:39:53 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Registration for 2005 Annual Meeting - Cincinnati Folks, I just finished talking with Rick Bailey this evening about the 2005 Annual Meeting in Cincinnati. He gave me the following information about room reservations - The event will be held at the Best Western Springdale Hotel and Conference Center, 11911 Sheraton Lane, Springfield, OH 45246 For room reservations call toll free 877-573-6612 and ask for the PRRT&HS rooms @ $75.00/night. Make sure they know it's for the Society event so we don't run into the problem we had last year in Philadelphia. For those flying the hotel is equidistant between the Dayton and Cincinnati airport so go for the best airfare deal. Event registration will be posted as soon as received. Al [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roy Breon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Name the Painting...Time to Vote Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 21:46:10 -0500 I liked "... And With a Bone in Her Teeth" since I have done some = sailing and am interested in nautical history. However, I feel that a = lot of "viewers" may not appreciate the meaning of that proposed title. = Therefore, I choose "Dashing Through the Snow". Everyone will = understand that one. =20 Roy Breon ------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01C3D3D5.54C1FD00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
I liked "... And With a Bone in Her = Teeth" =20 since I have done some sailing and am interested in nautical = history. =20 However, I feel that a lot of "viewers" may not appreciate the meaning = of that=20 proposed title.  Therefore, I choose "Dashing Through the = Snow". =20 Everyone will understand that one. 
 
Roy Breon
------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01C3D3D5.54C1FD00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWSNRHS@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 23:02:48 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Name the Painting...Time to Vote VOTE: Trail Blazer. Aside from a similar "named" train, this painting obviously is blazing a trail to it's destination. Dave Seidel, Altoona, PA -------------------------------1073361768 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
VOTE:   Trail Blazer.=20= Aside from a similar "named" train, this painting obviously is blazing a tra= il to it's destination.
Dave Seidel, Altoona, PA
-------------------------------1073361768-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Christopher Baker" Subject: RE: [PRR] Rivarossi Streamlined Coach Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 00:10:20 -0500 I'm pretty sure it's inspired by an ACF-built Union Pacific smoothside car. Not very close to anything Pennsy AFAIK. Chris Baker PRRT&HS #1918 -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of J. Smith Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:03 PM To: prr-talk Subject: [PRR] Rivarossi Streamlined Coach Any comments on the new, retooled, Rivarossi Smoothside Streamlined coach? How close is this car to a PRR rebuilt P70 coach? Jeff ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3D3E9.78CB5CA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
I'm=20 pretty sure it's inspired by an ACF-built Union Pacific smoothside=20 car.  Not very close to anything Pennsy AFAIK.
 
Chris=20 Baker
PRRT&HS #1918
-----Original Message-----
From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of J. Smith
Sent: = Monday,=20 January 05, 2004 10:03 PM
To: prr-talk
Subject: = [PRR]=20 Rivarossi Streamlined Coach

Any comments on the new, retooled, = Rivarossi=20 Smoothside Streamlined coach?  How close is this car to a PRR = rebuilt P70=20 coach?
 
Jeff
------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3D3E9.78CB5CA0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:13:03 +1100 From: "Mick Molloy" Subject: Re: [PRR] Name the Painting...Time to Vote Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, I would like to record my vote for "Winter Thunder" Reasons: I like the play on the words. If, in real life, we were standing= as close to the line as the painting suggests, we would indeed be= experiencing the thunder of the T as it covered us with snow (winter). Cheers, Mick Molloy ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 07:37:24 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] RE: Registration for 2005 Annual Meeting - Cincinnati RE: The event will be held at the Best Western Springdale Hotel and Conference Center, 11911 Sheraton Lane, Springfield, OH 45246 Sorry for the typo in the city location it should read Springdale not Springfield,OH. All else is okay. Al [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] RE: Registration for 2005 Annual Meeting - Cincinnati Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 07:37:24 -0500 RE: The event will be held at the Best Western Springdale Hotel and Conference Center, 11911 Sheraton Lane, Springfield, OH 45246 Sorry for the typo in the city location it should read Springdale not Springfield,OH. All else is okay. Al ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C3D427.ED886D60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Message
RE: The event=20 will be held at the Best Western Springdale Hotel and Conference Center, = 11911=20 Sheraton Lane, Springfield, OH 45246
 
 
Sorry for the typo in the city = location it=20 should read Springdale not Springfield,OH. All else is = okay.
 
Al
 
= ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C3D427.ED886D60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 07:43:26 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] RE: Registration for 2005 Annual Meeting - Cincinnati Re: message subject: Registration for 2005 Annual Meeting - Cincinnati I'm really getting old and senile - it should have read 2004. I keep thinking it's next year and now that it is next year it's really this year. Oh well. Thanx. Al [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] RE: Registration for 2005 Annual Meeting - Cincinnati Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 07:43:26 -0500 Re: message subject: Registration for 2005 Annual Meeting - Cincinnati I'm really getting old and senile - it should have read 2004. I keep thinking it's next year and now that it is next year it's really this year. Oh well. Thanx. Al ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C3D428.C680B550 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Message
Re: message subject: Registration for 2005 Annual Meeting - = Cincinnati
 
I'm really getting old and senile - it = should have=20 read 2004. I keep thinking it's next year and now that it is next year = it's=20 really this year. Oh well.
 
Thanx.
 
Al
 
------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C3D428.C680B550-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Yet ANOTHER PRR Builders Photo giveaway! Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 07:44:15 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, Since the PRR X31d was the hot topic of the second on some of the lists yesterday, I thought I would share a few photos with everyone. It is the PRR X31d with and without the roof sections. There are 2 photos spliced together, 8 x 10 at 300 DPI. That makes about a 1.5 MB download. All you have to do is cut them in half again and print them out. You should be able to get at least a good 5 x 7 and possibly an 8 x 10 from it. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/X31d.jpg I will offer the same photos at full strength 600 DPI at 8 x 10 to the first 4 people who respond. Here are the rules for the full size giveaway. 1. NO Hotmail! You will need a 10 MB inbox. 2. No dial up connections. 3. If it bounces once I am not resending them. 4. If you do not hear from me you were not in the first 4 respondents. Enjoy! Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 07:44:15 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Yet ANOTHER PRR Builders Photo giveaway! Hi All, Since the PRR X31d was the hot topic of the second on some of the lists yesterday, I thought I would share a few photos with everyone. It is the PRR X31d with and without the roof sections. There are 2 photos spliced together, 8 x 10 at 300 DPI. That makes about a 1.5 MB download. All you have to do is cut them in half again and print them out. You should be able to get at least a good 5 x 7 and possibly an 8 x 10 from it. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/X31d.jpg I will offer the same photos at full strength 600 DPI at 8 x 10 to the first 4 people who respond. Here are the rules for the full size giveaway. 1. NO Hotmail! You will need a 10 MB inbox. 2. No dial up connections. 3. If it bounces once I am not resending them. 4. If you do not hear from me you were not in the first 4 respondents. Enjoy! Bill "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 08:37:54 -0600 From: "Colm Chomicky" Subject: [PRR] Name that Painting Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Dave, They are all so good, it is a tough choice. Record my vote for "Winter Thunder". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Yet ANOTHER PRR Builders Photo giveaway! Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:52:03 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The offer is now closed. Congrats to the winners on being retired or being able to get personal email at work! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:52:03 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Yet ANOTHER PRR Builders Photo giveaway! The offer is now closed. Congrats to the winners on being retired or being able to get personal email at work! "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrew S. Miller" Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 11:19:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] Registration for 2005 Annual Meeting - Cincinnati Beware of possible confusion re "Dayton". There is a Dayton KY, just over the river from Cincinnati OH, but I suspect the airport Al is referring to is Dayton OH, 1-2 hours North of Cincy. I don't believe Dayton KY is big enough to have an airport. Regards, Andrew S. Miller ======================================================= Al Buchan wrote: > Folks, > > I just finished talking with Rick Bailey this evening about the 2005 > Annual Meeting in Cincinnati. > > He gave me the following information about room reservations - > > The event will be held at the Best Western Springdale Hotel and > Conference Center, 11911 Sheraton Lane, Springfield, OH 45246 > > For room reservations call toll free 877-573-6612 and ask for the > PRRT&HS rooms @ $75.00/night. Make sure they know it's for the Society > event so we don't run into the problem we had last year in Philadelphia. > > For those flying the hotel is equidistant between the Dayton and > Cincinnati airport so go for the best airfare deal. > > Event registration will be posted as soon as received. > > Al "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 11:19:12 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] Registration for 2005 Annual Meeting - Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Beware of possible confusion re "Dayton". There is a Dayton KY, just over the river from Cincinnati OH, but I suspect the airport Al is referring to is Dayton OH, 1-2 hours North of Cincy. I don't believe Dayton KY is big enough to have an airport. Regards, Andrew S. Miller ======================================================= Al Buchan wrote: > Folks, > > I just finished talking with Rick Bailey this evening about the 2005 > Annual Meeting in Cincinnati. > > He gave me the following information about room reservations - > > The event will be held at the Best Western Springdale Hotel and > Conference Center, 11911 Sheraton Lane, Springfield, OH 45246 > > For room reservations call toll free 877-573-6612 and ask for the > PRRT&HS rooms @ $75.00/night. Make sure they know it's for the Society > event so we don't run into the problem we had last year in Philadelphia. > > For those flying the hotel is equidistant between the Dayton and > Cincinnati airport so go for the best airfare deal. > > Event registration will be posted as soon as received. > > Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] Registration for 2005 Annual Meeting - Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:44:56 -0500 From: Andrew S. Miller [mailto:asmiller@mitre.org] Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] Registration for 2005 Annual Meeting - From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] Registration for 2005 Annual Meeting - Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 17:10:41 +0000 > From: Andrew S. Miller [mailto:asmiller@mitre.org] > Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] Registration for 2005 Annual Meeting - From: "Fred Rea" Subject: [PRR] Getting to the convention Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:26:17 -0500 Let me put in a plug for another way to get to Cincy. Fly into Port = Columbus, here in Columbus. Here are some good reasons to try this: 1-Use Southwest as they are very low cost and very reasonable for things = like one-way tickets. For the best prices use their web site, = www.iflyswa.com but, for the senior discount, call 1-800-IFLYSWA. They = fly here from BWI on the East coast and Midway in Chicago. They are a = bare bones operation but they do it well. And, they make a profit! I = fly them to BWI or Midway to catch Amtrak. 2-It would only be about 1:45(non rush hour) to drive to the convention = hotel. 3-As you leave the airport, go around to the SE corner of the field and = see the beautifully restored original airport as pictured in the = Keystone article on the Air-Train service. 4-Eat at the TAT Restaurant. It is a nice Italian family restaurant = operated by the family that did the catering for the airport during = Air-Train. I showed the mgr a copy of the Keystone. He loved it and he = said he planned to join the PRRT&HS. If you want to find it, let me = know. I'll post directions.=20 Fred Rea ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C3D450.4890D7B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Let me put in a plug for another way to get to = Cincy. =20 Fly into Port Columbus, here in Columbus.
 
Here are some good reasons to try this:
 
1-Use Southwest as they are very low cost and very = reasonable=20 for things like one-way tickets.  For the best prices use their web = site,=20 www.iflyswa.com but,  for = the senior=20 discount, call 1-800-IFLYSWA.  They fly here from BWI on the East = coast and=20 Midway in Chicago.  They are a bare bones operation but they do it=20 well.  And, they make a profit!  I fly them to BWI or Midway = to catch=20 Amtrak.
 
2-It would only be about 1:45(non rush hour) to = drive to=20 the convention hotel.
 
3-As you leave the airport, go around to the SE = corner of the=20 field and see the beautifully restored original airport as pictured in = the=20 Keystone article on the Air-Train service.
 
4-Eat at the TAT Restaurant.  It is a nice = Italian family=20 restaurant operated by the family that did the catering for the airport = during=20 Air-Train.  I showed the mgr a copy of the Keystone. He loved it = and he=20 said he planned to join the PRRT&HS.  If you want to find = it, let=20 me know.  I'll post directions. 
 
 
Fred Rea
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C3D450.4890D7B0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] Registration for 2005 Annual Meeting - Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:23:13 -0500 From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net] Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] Registration for 2005 Annual Meeting - > From: Andrew S. Miller [mailto:asmiller@mitre.org] > Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] Registration for 2005 Annual Meeting -
From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net]
Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] Registration for 2005 Annual Meeting -
> From: Andrew S. Miller [mailto:asmiller@mitre.org]
> Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] Registration for 2005 Annual Meeting - From: b.hom@att.net Subject: RE: [PRR] Registration for 2005 Annual Meeting - Cincinnati Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 17:51:10 +0000 From: "PGrace" Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn Has Been Acquired Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 19:02:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Spam-Processed: aspects.net, Tue, 06 Jan 2004 19:05:18 +0000 (not processed: spam filter disabled) X-MDRemoteIP: 194.164.78.244 X-Return-Path: pgrace@aspects.net X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Reply-To: pgrace@aspects.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: If this means the end of Walthers distributing the line it means that it will be no longer available here in the UK. What a gift for Bachmann! Patrick Grace ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" To: "Jerry Britton" ; Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 2:20 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn Has Been Acquired > Fellow PRR'ers, > > We have been dealing with Horizon Hobby Distributors (HHD) for several years > now. I too am somewhat apprehensive about the acquisition of Athearn and > what it will mean to the hobby. These views are from a DEALERS perspective > (mine) and are based on our dealings with Athearn and Horizon over the > years. > > Horizon DOES stock more Athearn products than most other wholesalers > including Walthers. They have made a conscious attempt to stock the product > after they sell out of their initial shipment of a new product. Most other > distributors DROPPED an item after the initial shipment. So, they have first > hand experience in the sales potential of the Athearn product line on a long > term, continuous basis. > > However, in my opinion, Horizon does NOT have personnel that are savvy in the > Model Railroad industry. They did not have any kind of presence in the Model > Railroad hobby until about five or six years ago. At that time, they decided > that they wanted a piece of the Model Railroad industry and made an effort to > stock more of the quality line (Athearn, Stewart, Bar Mills, Micro Scale, > etc.) and less reliance on the "bulk lines" (regular Life Like, Bachmann, > Model Power, etc.). For the lines that they have decided to stock, they have > done a pretty credible job up to a point. > > When they added the Micro Scale line of decals, they started out by carrying > the ENTIRE line of decals. While there are road names that are not major > sellers across the country, they do generate interest and we look for > suppliers that stock the entire line to obtain what we need for our > customers. Many orders were directed to Horizon because I could get the one > or two decal sets I needed as well as other major items. Within the last > year, too many of the Micro Scale decals are shown on their inventory lists > as "Discontinued by HHD" - meaning that they have decided that they do not > have sales to justify stocking the decals. Now, here's where the lack of > savvy kicks in. They have discontinued virtually ALL of the HO Heavyweight > Pullman / Passenger Car decals on the eve of Branchline finally getting their > act together and actually releasing their line of Heavyweight cars. Cars are > being produced that will finally REQUIRE the HW decals that they, not Micro > Scale, are discontinuing. > > In several other lines, the inventory also lists too many products IMHO > as "Discontinued by HHD". In my opinion, they seem to be committed to the > high volume, fast turn over items within a line. Unfortunately, there are > too many products in Model railroading that ARE low volume items. It remains > to be seen how the Athearn Blue-Box line of kits will fit into their future > sales. > > Based on the press release, HHD will become the exclusive distributor of > Athearn products. This means that ALL other sources will dry up for any new > products. If your dealer has Athearn products reserved for you, they may not > receive what they have ordered. This may or may not be a problem depending > on how your dealer handles your reservation. If it is something that you > HAVE to have, start talking to your dealer NOW! Again, HHD has stocked MORE > Athearn products than most other distributors in the past. But, I believe > they did that to establish a competitive advantage for dealers looking for > Athearn. I know that it worked with us. They had more Athearn product when > I needed it than any other source. > > However, and you know there's always a however, I do not know if they will > continue the same level of stocking now that the line is proprietary to HHD. > As it now stands, if you want Athearn, you HAVE to go to HHD. If that is the > case, there is not the SAME incentive for them to have a deep stock of > Athearn products. I hope I am wrong, but I see HHD eventually going to more > preorder and less stocking. After all, if they're the only ones with the > product, I'll have to get it when they offer it. > > For many years (decades?), Athearn has been THE premier line for getting > newbies into the hobby. They have a large variety of products that are > reasonably priced and easy to assemble. They also have their Ready-To-Run > line for the MANY hobbyists that do not want to assemble ANYTHING - and our > experience shows that the ratio is at least 5 to 1 for those preferring the > RTR. The key was that dealers could get products from virtually any supplier > that offered Model Railroad items. That has now changed. Instead of being > able to add Athearn items to any order that I have to any supplier, I now > have only one supplier. This is not the end of the world. But, it does mean > that I have to do a little more planning if I want to stock new Athearn > products. And, I still believe that Athearn is THE line to bring newbies > into the hobby. > > Time will tell. I believe that this is a major change in the hobby. Of > course, this is all my opinion and I could be wrong. > > Dennis > > www.onerrave.com > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Rea" Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:26:17 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Getting to the convention Let me put in a plug for another way to get to Cincy. Fly into Port Columbus, here in Columbus. Here are some good reasons to try this: 1-Use Southwest as they are very low cost and very reasonable for things like one-way tickets. For the best prices use their web site, www.iflyswa.com but, for the senior discount, call 1-800-IFLYSWA. They fly here from BWI on the East coast and Midway in Chicago. They are a bare bones operation but they do it well. And, they make a profit! I fly them to BWI or Midway to catch Amtrak. 2-It would only be about 1:45(non rush hour) to drive to the convention hotel. 3-As you leave the airport, go around to the SE corner of the field and see the beautifully restored original airport as pictured in the Keystone article on the Air-Train service. 4-Eat at the TAT Restaurant. It is a nice Italian family restaurant operated by the family that did the catering for the airport during Air-Train. I showed the mgr a copy of the Keystone. He loved it and he said he planned to join the PRRT&HS. If you want to find it, let me know. I'll post directions. Fred Rea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 15:10:57 -0500 From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn Has Been Acquired Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: It also means the end of those who only sell via the internet or at train shows. Horizon Hobby has a strict policy of selling only to hobby dealers with a physical store. They require a picture of the store front including the surrounding area. I just spoke with them and currently there are no plans to change their position. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] 2004 convention Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 20:20:35 +0000 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:20:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn Has Been Acquired From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Tuesday, January 6, 2004, at 03:10 PM, SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote: > It also means the end of those who only sell via the internet or at > train shows. Horizon Hobby has a strict policy of selling only to > hobby dealers with a physical store. They require a picture of the > store front including the surrounding area. I just spoke with them > and currently there are no plans to change their position. A lot of wholesalers profess that, but they are slowly and quietly revising their policies. They have to. The policies were put in place to protect physical dealers. Okay, a good idea! But unfortunately, the economic climate is forcing many physical dealers out of business. Many can't afford the overhead. And there aren't many young people starting up new shops. Older owners retire and their stores go with them. Sad but true. And statistics are showing that more and more people PREFER to shop online when offered a choice. While the argument of "try before you buy" may be admirable, so many of the products now are limited run that you aren't going to get them unless you reserve them --- taking away the advantage a local dealer may have held. Sooner or later, wholesalers will adjust to the new climate of business. My two cents. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] Dimensions of Keystone Number plate. Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:06:06 -0500 From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Dimensions of Keystone Number plate. Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:41:34 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Sam, Conviniently enough i measured the one in my basement on Sunday. The base dimenions are 18" by 18" I didn't get farther than that though. Mainly because dad yelled that i would scratch the paint with the tape or knock it off the wall. -John Sam wrote: Group, I am in need of the dimensions of the keystone number plate on the front of one of the Pennsy locos. I would like to create a house number using aluminum plate and brass. If anyone has these dimensions I would appreciate an e-mail. I know there are people making them but I have the availiblity of the materials and don't really want to spend a fortune to make it exact... Thanks SamV _________________________________________________________________ Expand your wine savvy ? and get some great new recipes ? at MSN Wine. http://wine.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] Keystone Records Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:46:36 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gents, Since the subject of keystones came up I thought of something. Would recoreds exist anywhere in the case that a machine shop had milled off the existing number to put a new one on. I ask because the railroad club i belong to recieved two number plates from the Pennsy. One retained its number, K4s 3667, on the second, the "P" co. milled off the number and cast the numbers of our street address. Unfortunately, we have no record of the original number. -John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Rea" Subject: Re: [PRR] 2004 convention Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 18:06:35 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Neat idea. Maybe even a bus over and a walking tour if no train service is possible. There is also a large live steam club layout some where in the hills between Cincy and Madison. Fred Rea ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 3:20 PM Subject: [PRR] 2004 convention > Madison is only 30-50 miles west of Cincy. I wonder if anyone is planning to > visit while in the area. Wouldn't it be cool if the group could arrange to > ride up and down the grade pulled by one of the ex PRR SD's! They are still > used there aren't they? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jamesfclay" Subject: RE: [PRR] Name the Painting...Time to Vote Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 18:42:25 -0500 Winter Thunder is my vote. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C3D484.D776E210 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Message
Winter=20 Thunder is my vote.
------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C3D484.D776E210-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 20:55:06 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Origin of the name Cincinnati I think I remember... In Roman history/mythology, a man named Cincinnatus was called from plowing his field to lead Rome's military during an emergency. Having done his civic duty and saved the day, instead of making himself a senator, proconsul, or emperor (in other words, an overpriced CEO), Cincinnatus modestly returned to his farm and took up his plow again. For some reason, this story appealed to officers of Washington's army, and after the American Revolution was successfully over and peace was negotiated, they formed an "Order of the Cincinnati". Soon, southwest Ohio was being settled by some of these gentlemen, and they named the town on the Ohio River "Cincinnati". Maybe a Latin scholar can tell me if Cincinnati is the plural possessive; I'm assuming this means the members of the order were saying they were Cincinnatus' kind of man. Lest you snicker, those wig-wearing gentlemen with the blue coats and tight white pants were serious about their classics, and expected to create a new civilization out of the wilderness. North of Cincinnati and between what are now Dayton and Xenia, they established their first town away from the river and named it "Alpha" (Greek for first). The PRR and its predecessors passed through Alpha for some 120 years, finally turning into a bike path in the "postindustrial" era. **************************************************************** Looking forward to seeing you at the PRRT&HS convention in Cincinnati this spring... Rick Tipton [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 20:49:01 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Dimensions of Keystone Number plate. X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-11,14-22 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: aurora7@juno.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Sam: These are the Keystone measurements I took off the 460's keystone, in the vaults of the RMPa. Top to bottom 17" Side to side 19" Width across top 16.5" Width across base 11.25" Distance from top to identation 3" Depth of indentation 3.5, making the indentation width 9.5" Length of long sloping side 14.75" I made two of these with house numbers from plywood. They really look nice, too. I scaled it way down and had the school shop cast a pair for me for my mailbox, using aluminum scrap off the local dump Dick . Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "There are no stupid questions, but there are many inquisitive idiots." ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: RE: [PRR] Yet ANOTHER PRR Builders Photo giveaway! Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 19:40:32 -0600 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bill, Thank you very much for making the photo available. FYI, that is the same photo that is on the cover of Pennsy Journal, Vol 1 #4. Andy Cich ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 20:55:06 EST Subject: [PRR] Origin of the name Cincinnati I think I remember... In Roman history/mythology, a man named Cincinnatus was called from plowing his field to lead Rome's military during an emergency. Having done his civic duty and saved the day, instead of making himself a senator, proconsul, or emperor (in other words, an overpriced CEO), Cincinnatus modestly returned to his farm and took up his plow again. For some reason, this story appealed to officers of Washington's army, and after the American Revolution was successfully over and peace was negotiated, they formed an "Order of the Cincinnati". Soon, southwest Ohio was being settled by some of these gentlemen, and they named the town on the Ohio River "Cincinnati". Maybe a Latin scholar can tell me if Cincinnati is the plural possessive; I'm assuming this means the members of the order were saying they were Cincinnatus' kind of man. Lest you snicker, those wig-wearing gentlemen with the blue coats and tight white pants were serious about their classics, and expected to create a new civilization out of the wilderness. North of Cincinnati and between what are now Dayton and Xenia, they established their first town away from the river and named it "Alpha" (Greek for first). The PRR and its predecessors passed through Alpha for some 120 years, finally turning into a bike path in the "postindustrial" era. **************************************************************** Looking forward to seeing you at the PRRT&HS convention in Cincinnati this spring... Rick Tipton --part1_2b.4e51b1ae.2d2cc0fa_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" I think I remember...

In Roman history/mythology, a man named Cincinnatus was called from plowing=20= his field to lead Rome's military during an emergency.  Having done his= civic duty and saved the day, instead of making himself a senator, proconsu= l, or emperor (in other words, an overpriced CEO), Cincinnatus modestly retu= rned to his farm and took up his plow again.  For some reason, this sto= ry appealed to officers of Washington's army, and after the American Revolut= ion was successfully over and peace was negotiated, they formed an "Order of= the Cincinnati".  Soon, southwest Ohio was being settled by some of th= ese gentlemen, and they named the town on the Ohio River "Cincinnati". = Maybe a Latin scholar can tell me if Cincinnati is the plural possessive; I= 'm assuming this means the members of the order were saying they were Cincin= natus' kind of man.

Lest you snicker, those wig-wearing gentlemen with the blue coats and tight=20= white pants were serious about their classics, and expected to create a new=20= civilization out of the wilderness.  North of Cincinnati and between wh= at are now Dayton and Xenia, they established their first town away from the= river and named it "Alpha" (Greek for first).  The PRR and its predece= ssors passed through Alpha for some 120 years, finally turning into a bike p= ath in the "postindustrial" era.

****************************************************************

Looking forward to seeing you at the PRRT&HS convention in Cincinnati th= is spring...

           &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    Rick Tipton
 --part1_2b.4e51b1ae.2d2cc0fa_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 21:44:58 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Origin of the name Cincinnati True. but there is more to the story. The original settlement at today's Cincy was named Losantiville (dunno why). When Gen. Arthur St. Clair, a prime mover in the Society of Cincinnati, was sent west to become territorial governor (and ultimately to lead the the western troops into one of the worst defeats ever suffered by an American army), he insisted the town fathers rename the place Cincinnati to give it a stature befitting his capital and his rank. As Paul Harvey used to say, "and that's the rest of the story." Lee Rainey In a message dated 1/6/2004 9:24:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, RickTipton@aol.com writes: > I think I remember... > > In Roman history/mythology, a man named Cincinnatus was called from plowing > his field to lead Rome's military during an emergency. Having done his civic > duty and saved the day, instead of making himself a senator, proconsul, or > emperor (in other words, an overpriced CEO), Cincinnatus modestly returned to > his farm and took up his plow again. For some reason, this story appealed to > officers of Washington's army, and after the American Revolution was > successfully over and peace was negotiated, they formed an "Order of the > Cincinnati". Soon, southwest Ohio was being settled by some of these gentlemen, and > they named the town on the Ohio River "Cincinnati". Maybe a Latin scholar can > tell me if Cincinnati is the plural possessive; I'm assuming this means the > members of the order were saying they were Cincinnatus' kind of man. > > Lest you snicker, those wig-wearing gentlemen with the blue coats and tight > white pants were serious about their classics, and expected to create a new > civilization out of the wilderness. North of Cincinnati and between what are > now Dayton and Xenia, they established their first town away from the river > and named it "Alpha" (Greek for first). The PRR and its predecessors passed > through Alpha for some 120 years, finally turning into a bike path in the > "postindustrial" era. > --part1_137.29a728b5.2d2cccaa_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" True. but there is more to the stor= y. The original settlement at today's Cincy was named Losantiville (dunno wh= y). When Gen. Arthur St. Clair, a prime mover in the Society of Cincinnati,=20= was sent west to become territorial governor (and ultimately to lead the the= western troops into one of the worst defeats ever suffered by an American a= rmy), he insisted the town fathers rename the place Cincinnati to give it a=20= stature befitting his capital and his rank.

As Paul Harvey used to say, "and that's the rest of the story."

Lee Rainey


In a message dated 1/6/2004 9:24:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, RickTipton@aol= .com writes:


I think I remember...

In Roman history/mythology, a man named Cincinnatus was called from plowing=20= his field to lead Rome's military during an emergency.  Having done his= civic duty and saved the day, instead of making himself a senator, proconsu= l, or emperor (in other words, an overpriced CEO), Cincinnatus modestly retu= rned to his farm and took up his plow again.  For some reason, this sto= ry appealed to officers of Washington's army, and after the American Revolut= ion was successfully over and peace was negotiated, they formed an "Order of= the Cincinnati".  Soon, southwest Ohio was being settled by some of th= ese gentlemen, and they named the town on the Ohio River "Cincinnati". = Maybe a Latin scholar can tell me if Cincinnati is the plural possessive; I= 'm assuming this means the members of the order were saying they were Cincin= natus' kind of man.

Lest you snicker, those wig-wearing gentlemen with the blue coats and tight=20= white pants were serious about their classics, and expected to create a new=20= civilization out of the wilderness.  North of Cincinnati and between wh= at are now Dayton and Xenia, they established their first town away from the= river and named it "Alpha" (Greek for first).  The PRR and its predece= ssors passed through Alpha for some 120 years, finally turning into a bike p= ath in the "postindustrial" era.


 --part1_137.29a728b5.2d2cccaa_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn Has Been Acquired Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 21:18:08 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" > Sooner or later, wholesalers will adjust to the new climate of > business. My two cents. You are correct to a point, Jerry. However, I have to ask the question: I know you carry the main items ( I have bought a few things from you myself) but how many detail parts do you carry? How many do any of the no-store-front people like you carry? (given that the store-front people, including ourselves, primarily a large R/C shop, don't carry them either) Question is, as Walthers works down their detail parts inventory and never replaces the lines, what will happen to those parts in general? Will the model railroad world evolve into the European and U.S. tinplate model of RTR (BLI is the harbinger of HO going that way, IMO)? We are living in changing times and, though I am definitely the anthithesis of a Henny-Penny, I really wonder if all those neat things in my storage drawers (antenna masts?)will be available in the future. Just some mental meanderings. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 23:18:10 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/06/04 In a message dated 1/6/04 12:59:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Al Buchan wrote: > > > Folks, > > > > I just finished talking with Rick Bailey this evening about the 2005 > > Annual Meeting in Cincinnati. > > > > He gave me the following information about room reservations - > > > > The event will be held at the Best Western Springdale Hotel and > > Conference Center, 11911 Sheraton Lane, Springfield, OH 45246 > > > > For room reservations call toll free 877-573-6612 and ask for the > > PRRT&HS rooms @ $75.00/night. Make sure they know it's for the Society > > event so we don't run into the problem we had last year in Philadelphia. > > > > For those flying the hotel is equidistant between the Dayton and > > Cincinnati airport so go for the best airfare deal. > > > > Event registration will be posted as soon as received. > > > > Al Gize Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_1d3.17624e67.2d2ce282_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a messa= ge dated 1/6/04 12:59:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:=


Al Buchan wrote:

> Folks,
>
> I just finished talking with Rick Bailey this evening about the 2005 > Annual Meeting in Cincinnati.
>
> He gave me the following information about room reservations -
>
> The event will be held at the Best Western Springdale Hotel and
> Conference Center, 11911 Sheraton Lane, Springfield, OH 45246
>
> For room reservations call toll free 877-573-6612 and ask for the
> PRRT&HS rooms @ $75.00/night. Make sure they know it's for the Soci= ety
> event so we don't run into the problem we had last year in Philadelphia= .
>
> For those flying the hotel is equidistant between the Dayton and
> Cincinnati airport so go for the best airfare deal.
>
> Event registration will be posted as soon as received.
>
> Al


Gize
Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_1d3.17624e67.2d2ce282_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 00:24:51 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Origin of the name Cincinnati In a message dated 1/6/04 9:44:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, LeeRainey writes: > True. but there is more to the story. The original settlement at today's > Cincy was named Losantiville (dunno why). When Gen. Arthur St. Clair, a prime > mover in the Society of Cincinnati, was sent west to become territorial > governor (and ultimately to lead the the western troops into one of the worst > defeats ever suffered by an American army), he insisted the town fathers rename > the place Cincinnati to give it a stature befitting his capital and his rank. > > As Paul Harvey used to say, "and that's the rest of the story." > > Lee Rainey Lee, Yep, it was called Losantiville, someone's madeup name meaning "the town opposite the mouth of the Licking River" -- although that's a yarn that even some classisists have trouble with. No one records what most of the locals thought of this foolishness. And before that, it was called Fort Washington, after the Army's stockade there. But, as you say, it's been Cincinnati for a long time now. I always wonder why Arthur St. Clair had been sent out here as governor/military leader. In any case, the Indians handed him a first rate shellacking, and the settlers were in big trouble until "Mad Anthony" Wayne took command and convinced the local Indians (e.g. Miami and Shawnee) to "seek opportunities elsewhere". Eventually, of course, "the land between the Miami (Rivers)" became peaceful enough to sprout farms, canals and (required PRR content) railroads, some of which later became part of the Pennsy System. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_f.1fe6b017.2d2cf223_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 1/6/04 9:44:58 P= M Eastern Standard Time, LeeRainey writes:


True. but there is more to the=20= story. The original settlement at today's Cincy was named Losantiville (dunn= o why). When Gen. Arthur St. Clair, a prime mover in the Society of Cincinna= ti, was sent west to become territorial governor (and ultimately to lead the= the western troops into one of the worst defeats ever suffered by an Americ= an army), he insisted the town fathers rename the place Cincinnati to give i= t a stature befitting his capital and his rank.

As Paul Harvey used to say, "and that's the rest of the story."

Lee Rainey


Lee,

Yep, it was called Losantiville, someone's madeup name meaning "the town opp= osite the mouth of the Licking River" -- although that's a yarn that even so= me classisists have trouble with.  No one records what most of the loca= ls thought of this foolishness.  And before that, it was called Fort Wa= shington, after the Army's stockade there.  But, as you say, it's been=20= Cincinnati for a long time now.

I always wonder why Arthur St. Clair had been sent out here as governor/mili= tary leader.  In any case, the Indians handed him a first rate shellack= ing, and the settlers were in big trouble until "Mad Anthony" Wayne took com= mand and convinced the local Indians (e.g. Miami and Shawnee) to "seek oppor= tunities elsewhere".

Eventually, of course, "the land between the Miami (Rivers)" became peaceful= enough to sprout farms, canals and (required PRR content) railroads, some o= f which later became part of the Pennsy System.

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_f.1fe6b017.2d2cf223_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 01:51:41 EST Subject: [PRR] 1947 Freedom Train PRR coaches After examining several photos of the three P70 coaches used on this train as exhibition cars, I cannot determine how the windows were covered over. My best guess is that sheet steel was welded over the entire length of the windows. Does anyone know exactly what was done to cover or replace the windows? I am using ECW kits to model these three cars. Also, those "darned" people who toured the train had the bad habit of being photographed blocking the view of the cars' underbody and trucks. Does anyone know what color the underbody and trucks were? From the little bit that does show, it appears to be a medium shade of gray. BTW, NKP Car Co. just announced the release of an AT&SF 70' baggage car kit that is of the same type as used on the Freedom Train, the only modification would be to add the end doors such as the PRR's theatrical and horse cars had. Thank you, Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1073458301 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
After examining several photos of the three P70 coaches used on this tr= ain as exhibition cars,  I cannot determine how the windows were c= overed over.  My best guess is that sheet steel was welded over the ent= ire length of the windows.  Does anyone know exactly what was done to c= over or replace the windows?  I am using ECW kits to model these three=20= cars.
 
Also, those "darned" people who toured the train had the bad habit= of being photographed blocking the view of the cars' underbody and tru= cks.  Does anyone know what color the underbody and trucks were?  = >From the little bit that does show, it appears to be a medium shade of gray.=
 
BTW,  NKP Car Co. just announced the release of an AT&SF=20= 70' baggage car kit that is of the same type as used on the Freedom Train, t= he only modification would be to add the end doors such as the PRR's theatri= cal and horse cars had.
 
Thank you,

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1073458301-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: "PRR-Talk" From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn Has Been Acquired Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 06:51:46 -0500 To: "Bob Zoeller" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Jan 6, 2004, at 10:18 PM, Bob Zoeller wrote: > From: "Jerry Britton" >> Sooner or later, wholesalers will adjust to the new climate of >> business. My two cents. > > You are correct to a point, Jerry. However, I have to ask the > question: I > know you carry the main items ( I have bought a few things from you > myself) > but how many detail parts do you carry? Merchandise Service carries the most popular detail parts from Bowser, Cal Scale, and Eastern Car Works, but that's it. Not that MS doesn't want to, but there has never been enough demand to warrant it. As for Athearn, MS only ever stocked the Genesis line. Rather than add yet another distributor for just one line, MS has elected to drop Athearn altogether. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 08:01:26 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: [PRR] Re: Internet shopping Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The internet or even old fashioned telephoning -- is also essential to those of us who live in areas without hobby shops! None here in my part of Delmarva (unless you want plastic stockcar models and tropical fish...) I e-order or take want-list on one of my trips to the big city of Richmond which has a couple of good places to buy RR stuff. Norfolk-VA Beach has a few shops but not any that carry detail parts, PRR items, RED Caboose, Bowser or the better quality items. Jim McDaniel, with Two cents worth from Delmarva and the boonies ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 08:16:17 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: Internet shopping From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Wednesday, January 7, 2004, at 08:01 AM, James L. McDaniel wrote: > The internet or even old fashioned telephoning -- is also essential to > those of us who live in areas without hobby shops! None here in my > part of Delmarva (unless you want plastic stockcar models and tropical > fish...) That's a good point that wholesalers (that only sell to brick n mortar shops) don't take into consideration. Quite frankly, I'll bet that 50% of the modeling population doesn't have a good hobby shop within 50 miles! > > I e-order or take want-list on one of my trips to the big city of > Richmond which has a couple of good places to buy RR stuff. Norfolk-VA > Beach has a few shops but not any that carry detail parts, PRR items, > RED Caboose, Bowser or the better quality items. And even some very well known and popular hobby shops don't stock the better brands. Since I was a kid I was a frequent customer at The Station in New Cumberland, Pa. It is a family owned business and they are a great group of people. They have a wide variety of stock, but you will not find any Red Caboose or InterMountain products, nor are they willing to special order. Many years ago I wanted to order 72 Red Caboose X29 kits and they would not take the order. (Desktop Solutions spawned the Merchandise Service division later that day!) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] 1947 Freedom Train PRR coaches Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 08:42:11 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Even, Have you looked around at www.freedomtrain.org? I'd guess that they used sheet metal that was cut to fit between the bottom and top sills of the car. I'm not trying to sound dumb though because of that being obvious. That's how Juniata Terminal Company solved the problem of what to do with the currugated BUDD side of what is not the Warrior Ridge. The simply covered it up. My 5 cents. -John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mark Taylor" Subject: [PRR] Name The Painting Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 08:42:27 -0500 From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] ] Re: Internet shopping Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 07:46:50 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" > That's a good point that wholesalers (that only sell to brick n mortar > shops) don't take into consideration. Quite frankly, I'll bet that 50% > of the modeling population doesn't have a good hobby shop within 50 > miles! That is a good point. We see it with R/C when people arrive for a race---people stock up on their visits as I do for rail stuff on trips to Des Plaines Hobbies, Ram Hobbies, etc, in Chicago. Problem with internet or mail order shopping is the shipping charges. Its great if you are buying dozens of cars at a crack, but if you want one car from Westerfield or Sunshine or $10 worth of parts from Bowser, or even just one particular Branchline or Red Caboose car, you are adding considerably to the costs (one of the reasons I was disappointed Westerfield was not at Milwaukee Trainfest this year). OTOH, I am one of the guys who says there is no free lunch and I guess I should be willing to pay for the convenience of point and click:-). OTOHOH, I really like Sunshine kits,but wow, what a chore to order one! Sorry to continue a somewhat off-topic thread. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 08:25:43 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] TAN: Internet shopping From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Wednesday, January 7, 2004, at 07:16 AM, Jerry Britton wrote: > On Wednesday, January 7, 2004, at 08:01 AM, James L. McDaniel wrote: > >> The internet or even old fashioned telephoning -- is also essential >> to those of us who live in areas without hobby shops! None here in >> my part of Delmarva (unless you want plastic stockcar models and >> tropical fish...) > > That's a good point that wholesalers (that only sell to brick n mortar > shops) don't take into consideration. Quite frankly, I'll bet that 50% > of the modeling population doesn't have a good hobby shop within 50 > miles! Note that Horizon's policy does not mean no internet sales...you will just have to buy THROUGH an internet entity with a physical storefront. For an example of how this might work, consider Walthers. To pick up Walthers stuff at a discount I found several places that I "order" through and get 10-20% off the price I would pay from Terminal Hobbies, or my "local" shop (100 miles away). As for detail parts and other items that seem to be a "problem" for distributors to stock like decals...order direct. I now order all of my Precision Scale parts direct from Precision. 2-3 week delivery, they take credit cards and nearly everything is "in stock". Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-2-689063027 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII On Wednesday, January 7, 2004, at 07:16 AM, Jerry Britton wrote: On Wednesday, January 7, 2004, at 08:01 AM, James L. McDaniel wrote: The internet or even old fashioned telephoning -- is also essential to those of us who live in areas without hobby shops! None here in my part of Delmarva (unless you want plastic stockcar models and tropical fish...) That's a good point that wholesalers (that only sell to brick n mortar shops) don't take into consideration. Quite frankly, I'll bet that 50% of the modeling population doesn't have a good hobby shop within 50 miles! Note that Horizon's policy does not mean no internet sales...you will just have to buy THROUGH an internet entity with a physical storefront. For an example of how this might work, consider Walthers. To pick up Walthers stuff at a discount I found several places that I "order" through and get 10-20% off the price I would pay from Terminal Hobbies, or my "local" shop (100 miles away). As for detail parts and other items that seem to be a "problem" for distributors to stock like decals...order direct. I now order all of my Precision Scale parts direct from Precision. 2-3 week delivery, they take credit cards and nearly everything is "in stock". Happy Rails Bruce HelveticaBruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-2-689063027-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 09:51:11 -0500 From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn Has Been Acquired Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In a message dated 1/6/2004 3:20:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, Jerry Britton writes: >On Tuesday, January 6, 2004, at 03:10  PM, SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote: > >> It also means the end of those who only sell via the internet or at >> train shows.  Horizon Hobby has a strict policy of selling only to >> hobby dealers with a physical store.  They require a picture of the >> store front including the surrounding area.  I just spoke with them >> and currently there are no plans to change their position. > >A lot of wholesalers profess that, but they are slowly and quietly >revising their policies. They have to. > >The policies were put in place to protect physical dealers. Okay, a >good idea! > >But unfortunately, the economic climate is forcing many physical >dealers out of business. Many can't afford the overhead. And there >aren't many young people starting up new shops. Older owners retire and >their stores go with them. Sad but true. > >And statistics are showing that more and more people PREFER to shop >online when offered a choice. While the argument of "try before you >buy" may be admirable, so many of the products now are limited run that >you aren't going to get them unless you reserve them --- taking away >the advantage a local dealer may have held. > >Sooner or later, wholesalers will adjust to the new climate of >business. My two cents. >----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry, I agree with you but until Hobby Horizon sees the light, those without a physical store will be unable to obtain Athearn products. As for change in philosophy, the sales rep with whom I spoke said they have heard it all about losing sales by freezing out those with internet businesses. Their position is that enough of the hobby shops also sell on the itnernet to keep and even increase their sales. So don't hold your breath waiting for a change by Hobby Horizon. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Athearn sale Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:16:49 +0000 From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Athearn sale Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:17:59 +0000 From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn sale Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:37:34 +0000 Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 12:26:24 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Internet shopping Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry wrote: [snip] > And even some very well known and popular hobby shops don't stock the > better brands. Since I was a kid I was a frequent customer at The > Station in New Cumberland, Pa. It is a family owned business and they > are a great group of people. They have a wide variety of stock, but > you will not find any Red Caboose or InterMountain products, nor are > they willing to special order. Many years ago I wanted to order 72 Red > Caboose X29 kits and they would not take the order. (Desktop Solutions > spawned the Merchandise Service division later that day!) To be fair to The Station, their policy has changed over the years. At the time, they had one distributor only and only could get what they carried. They have 4+ distributors today and I personally have gotten a few InterMoutain and Red Caboose cars from them (both special order, their customer base is such that they don't stock either brand normally). My point here (other than to clarify what The Station carries) is that this is what makes any business successful -- the willingness to change with the times. I feel there is a place for both mail order and hobby shops in today's market... Jeff Warner ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jean Gagne" Subject: [PRR] Retaining Valve on Middle Division Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:54:19 -0500 The 1955 Middle Division ETT mentions that eastbound freight trains not = equipped with dynamic brakes and pressure maintaining brake valve were = required to use retaining valves when descending the grade from Alttona = to Pete. My questions are : - What percentage of trains were equipped with dynamic brakes and = pressure maintaining brake valves in 1955 ? - How much time did it take for a train (say 1 mile long) to set or = reset the retaining valves ? - Were all freight trains affected by this ? In other words, were there = some trains not equipped with dynamic brakes and pressure maintaining = brake valves that were NOT required to use retaining valves on the = descending grade ? Thanks ! John ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C3D51D.5D361860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
The 1955 Middle Division ETT mentions = that=20 eastbound freight trains not equipped with dynamic brakes and pressure=20 maintaining brake valve were required to use retaining valves when = descending=20 the grade from Alttona to Pete. My questions are :
 
- What percentage of trains were = equipped with=20 dynamic brakes and pressure maintaining brake valves in 1955 = ?
 
- How much time did it take for a  = train (say=20 1 mile long) to set or reset the retaining valves ?
 
- Were all freight trains affected by = this ? In=20 other words, were there some trains not equipped with dynamic brakes and = pressure maintaining brake valves that were NOT required to use = retaining=20 valves on the descending grade ?
 
Thanks !
 
John
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C3D51D.5D361860-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Athearn and the Pennsy Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 18:31:05 +0000 Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 13:54:31 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: [PRR] Re: Getting to the convention Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Ken and all who are looking for PRR sites en route to Cincinnati: -- The ex-Panhandle 1926 bridge over the Ohio at Steubenville, Ohio/Weirton, W.Va., is accessible and you can even somewhat approximate the perspective of the 1953 calendar painting. (For those sticking to I-70, this is a few dozen miles out of the way). -- Three ex-PRR tunnels in the Wheeling, W.Va., area, still exist, and the last time I was in that area, one of them was still used to provide rail service to a small industrial park. Finding these require some navigating through the local street grid once you've debarked from I-70 or I-270. The two unused ones are viewable at a distance -- one of them from a local road just off U.S. 40, and the other from State Route 2 (River Road) north of the downtown area. The one that is still active is near a grade crossing in the south part of Wheeling. This active ex-PRR trackage is connected only on the south end, to former B&O trackage. Also, it parallels and crosses under the former B&O Pittsburgh-Wheeling line, now abandoned in this vicinity and converted to a biking trail (including a B&O tunnel). Also, the ex-B&O passenger station in Wheeling -- with no tracks -- was still there the last time I was in town. The ex-PRR bridge over the Ohio to Martins Ferry, Ohio, is gone, but by viewing the northerly portal of the northerly tunnel from River Road as noted above, you can get an idea of how it crossed. -- A PRR station in Newark, Ohio, a few miles off I-70, has been restored and when I last saw it, was being used by a local business or maybe a foundation. It had gold PRR keystones on some of the window glass. -- The already mentioned Port Columbus/TAT air terminal is easy to get to (just find the southeasterly corner of airport property) and easy to photograph. Standing on the site and seeing the Ohio Central (or more properly, Columbus & Ohio River, formerly the Panhandle main) just across the street makes it easy to understand how the rail-air connection worked. -- Between Columbus and Indianapolis, the abandoned ex-PRR right of way is visible at many points along U.S. 40, along with many bridges and underpasses, and the ruins of a tower near, IIRC, Greenfield, Ind. -- Tom Vondruska should be able to add some notes on the sites around Xenia, including the recreated tower there and the trail routes that follow abandoned lines. -- OR&W fans may be able to add to this list, as I-70 touches the ex-OR&W endpoints (Bellaire and Zanesville, Ohio), but otherwise parallels the right-of-way many miles to the north. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 14:03:16 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Getting to the convention From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Wednesday, January 7, 2004, at 01:54 PM, Dan Cupper wrote: > Ken and all who are looking for PRR sites en route to Cincinnati: Good post, Dan! I imagine a large majority of the attendees will be traveling to the land of Lines West for their first time. I might be fun to put together a "scavenger list" of things to find west of Pittsburgh! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: Getting to the convention Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 13:17:11 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] Re: Getting to the convention Thread-Index: AcPVUIvgYz2pQbC5S8u8OY8hyebSNwAAd7Vg From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: "Dan Cupper" , , "PRR-Talk" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jan 2004 19:17:12.0548 (UTC) FILETIME=[DA728A40:01C3D552] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Add the Denison, Ohio station, which has been restored and has a variety of semi-restored passenger and freight cars in addition to a C&O 2-8-4. Several of the passenger cars are at least painted PRR, I'm not sure how many of them were actually used by the RR. -----Original Message----- From: Dan Cupper [mailto:cupper@att.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 12:55 PM To: PRR@yahoogroups.com; PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Re: Getting to the convention Ken and all who are looking for PRR sites en route to Cincinnati: -- The ex-Panhandle 1926 bridge over the Ohio at Steubenville,=20 Ohio/Weirton, W.Va., is accessible and you can even somewhat approximate the perspective of the 1953 calendar painting. (For those sticking to=20 I-70, this is a few dozen miles out of the way). -- Three ex-PRR tunnels in the Wheeling, W.Va., area, still exist, and=20 the last time I was in that area, one of them was still used to provide=20 rail service to a small industrial park. Finding these require some=20 navigating through the local street grid once you've debarked from I-70=20 or I-270. The two unused ones are viewable at a distance -- one of them from a local road just off U.S. 40, and the other from State Route 2=20 (River Road) north of the downtown area. The one that is still active is near a grade crossing in the south part of Wheeling. This active ex-PRR=20 trackage is connected only on the south end, to former B&O trackage.=20 Also, it parallels and crosses under the former B&O Pittsburgh-Wheeling=20 line, now abandoned in this vicinity and converted to a biking trail=20 (including a B&O tunnel). Also, the ex-B&O passenger station in Wheeling -- with no tracks -- was still there the last time I was in town. The=20 ex-PRR bridge over the Ohio to Martins Ferry, Ohio, is gone, but by=20 viewing the northerly portal of the northerly tunnel from River Road as=20 noted above, you can get an idea of how it crossed. -- A PRR station in Newark, Ohio, a few miles off I-70, has been=20 restored and when I last saw it, was being used by a local business or=20 maybe a foundation. It had gold PRR keystones on some of the window glass. -- The already mentioned Port Columbus/TAT air terminal is easy to get=20 to (just find the southeasterly corner of airport property) and easy to=20 photograph. Standing on the site and seeing the Ohio Central (or more=20 properly, Columbus & Ohio River, formerly the Panhandle main) just=20 across the street makes it easy to understand how the rail-air=20 connection worked. -- Between Columbus and Indianapolis, the abandoned ex-PRR right of way=20 is visible at many points along U.S. 40, along with many bridges and=20 underpasses, and the ruins of a tower near, IIRC, Greenfield, Ind. -- Tom Vondruska should be able to add some notes on the sites around=20 Xenia, including the recreated tower there and the trail routes that=20 follow abandoned lines. -- OR&W fans may be able to add to this list, as I-70 touches the=20 ex-OR&W endpoints (Bellaire and Zanesville, Ohio), but otherwise=20 parallels the right-of-way many miles to the north. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Craig Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn and the Pennsy Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 14:30:07 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I think Athearn did a tremendous service to the industry by offering reasonably-priced, good-running models at a time when offerings from other vendors were quite limited (compare them to old Tyco, AHM, Bachmann, Life-Like etc.) True, there were liberties taken with detailing & painting, but the technology of the time was less well developed and the knowledge base was certainly not as extensive as it is today. It got a lot of people started in the hobby with something beyond a mere toy, and as one's interest develops, a modeler moves to more well-rendered models. For some, they provided a great starting point, where a few details and repaint could offer a credible model. I would hope that Athearn continues this "entry-level" effort, while continuing to offer the Genesis product to more advanced modelers. In a (manufacturers from the old days) related vein, whatever happened to the stillborn Tyco J1? I still have a catalog or two with it on the cover. Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Andrews" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 1:31 PM Subject: [PRR] Athearn and the Pennsy > PRR-Listers: > > I hope that the acquistion does work and is a net positive for the hobby. I > hope the Horizon Hobbies is not too big and diversified ( there are really > into RC stuff) that they will loose "focus" of the the model railroading and > only provide high turnover products. For years, Athearn has been the > mainstay in this hobby, providing inexpensive, easy to assemble cars and > engines. Also, many of the parts that Athearn offered were used by nearly > everyone who kitbashed cars or re-powered engines. That really helped make > the hobby and it would be sad if that stopped. > > However, we must all admit that Athearn's production of PRR equipment has > had allot to be desired. While Atheard 40', 50', 86' boxcars, and 34' > hoppers painted PRR were passable to many, the other rolling stock was not > PRR based. I never bought a ATSF style caboose painted PRR. The flat cars > and gondolas also were not PRR prototypes. > > Next, the engines painted PRR by Athearn. This has been a pet peeve of mine > for years. Athearn apparenly never looked at any of the Al Stauffer books > for reference because almost every PRR engine they painted was not > consistent with the rest. Lets go down the list: > > F-7's: The Pennsy NEVER had these engines with 5 stripes! (exception FP-7) > Also no F-3 or F-7 were ever painted in tuscan red (also exception FP-7). > > SW-1200: Athearn painted these with a big keystone on the cab sides......no > prototypical. The lettering on the hood was also wrong. > > PA-1's: Did produce in tuscan red 5-stripe but did a poor job of combining > the stripes that the nose of the engines. > > DD-40: Painted reasonably for PRR 1960's. The only problem is that the PRR > never owned them > > SD-45: ??? Athearn essentially used lettering that I think came off of a PRR > tender. WHY???? I personally think this is worse than the F-7's > > U-30-C: Here Athearn gets it pretty close.....again, why didn't they do the > same thing for the SD-45?? It would have been easy! > > S-12: Here Athearn does a reasonably good job. > > SD-9: Ditto. This follows the prototype well. > > Trainmaster: This is somewhat prototypical; the lettering on the long hood > is pretty accurate. Yet, Athearn did a little free-lancing and placed a > keystone on the short hoods (a la SD-9). To be honest, I like this > treatment! I know that may be sacrelige, but I have two TM's this way and > the keystone on the short hood enhances the engine...I think. > > I don't want to come across as too critical. But I think that if Athearn > attempted to be more accurate in PRR-related stuff, that would have helped > people model the Pennsy more easily over the years. I never bought PRR F-7's > from Athearn because of this. > > my 2 cents. > > > Ted > > _________________________________________________________________ > Make your home warm and cozy this winter with tips from MSN House & Home. > http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Rea" Subject: [PRR] Getting to the convention Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 14:40:32 -0500 Let me add another sight worth catching. A nicely restored PRR cabin. = It is along US-40 a few miles East of Cambridge, and a mile or so north = of I-70. =20 It belongs to society member Dan Adair and is on a short piece of track = on his brother's farm. Fred Rea ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C3D52C.33D3C620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Let me add another sight worth catching.  A = nicely=20 restored PRR cabin.  It is along US-40 a few miles East of = Cambridge, and a=20 mile or so north of I-70. 
 
It belongs to society member Dan Adair and is on a = short piece=20 of track on his brother's farm.
 
Fred Rea
------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C3D52C.33D3C620-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 14:50:17 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn and the Pennsy From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Getting to the convention Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 19:55:06 +0000 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 13:59:36 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn and the Pennsy From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Wednesday, January 7, 2004, at 01:30 PM, Craig Miller wrote: > In a (manufacturers from the old days) related vein, whatever happened > to > the stillborn Tyco J1? I still have a catalog or two with it on the > cover. Same thing that happened to the Bowser J1? ;^) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-4-709095770 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII On Wednesday, January 7, 2004, at 01:30 PM, Craig Miller wrote: In a (manufacturers from the old days) related vein, whatever happened to the stillborn Tyco J1? I still have a catalog or two with it on the cover. Same thing that happened to the Bowser J1? ;^) Happy Rails Bruce HelveticaBruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-4-709095770-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 15:12:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn and the Pennsy From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Wednesday, January 7, 2004, at 02:59 PM, Bruce Smith wrote: > On Wednesday, January 7, 2004, at 01:30 PM, Craig Miller wrote: >> In a (manufacturers from the old days) related vein, whatever >> happened to >> the stillborn Tyco J1? I still have a catalog or two with it on the >> cover. > > Same thing that happened to the Bowser J1? ;^) I don't recall the timeframe of the Tyco J1, but there was a very good reason for the Bowser cancellation... a new company called Broadway Limited Imports! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PGrace" Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn and the Pennsy Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 20:16:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Spam-Processed: aspects.net, Wed, 07 Jan 2004 20:19:20 +0000 (not processed: spam filter disabled) X-MDRemoteIP: 194.164.118.182 X-Return-Path: pgrace@aspects.net X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Reply-To: pgrace@aspects.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I agree the advantage with the blue box line was it was cheap and effectively ready to run. I was discussing the news with a friend here in the UK and our feeling is that the "Ready to Roll" and "Genesis" ranges will survive as limited run items and the rest will go. Patrick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Miller" To: "Ted Andrews" ; Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 7:30 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn and the Pennsy > I think Athearn did a tremendous service to the industry by offering > reasonably-priced, good-running models at a time when offerings from other > vendors were quite limited (compare them to old Tyco, AHM, Bachmann, > Life-Like etc.) True, there were liberties taken with detailing & painting, > but the technology of the time was less well developed and the knowledge > base was certainly not as extensive as it is today. It got a lot of people > started in the hobby with something beyond a mere toy, and as one's interest > develops, a modeler moves to more well-rendered models. For some, they > provided a great starting point, where a few details and repaint could offer > a credible model. I would hope that Athearn continues this "entry-level" > effort, while continuing to offer the Genesis product to more advanced > modelers. > > In a (manufacturers from the old days) related vein, whatever happened to > the stillborn Tyco J1? I still have a catalog or two with it on the cover. > > Craig > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ted Andrews" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 1:31 PM > Subject: [PRR] Athearn and the Pennsy > > > > PRR-Listers: > > > > I hope that the acquistion does work and is a net positive for the hobby. > I > > hope the Horizon Hobbies is not too big and diversified ( there are really > > into RC stuff) that they will loose "focus" of the the model railroading > and > > only provide high turnover products. For years, Athearn has been the > > mainstay in this hobby, providing inexpensive, easy to assemble cars and > > engines. Also, many of the parts that Athearn offered were used by nearly > > everyone who kitbashed cars or re-powered engines. That really helped make > > the hobby and it would be sad if that stopped. > > > > However, we must all admit that Athearn's production of PRR equipment has > > had allot to be desired. While Atheard 40', 50', 86' boxcars, and 34' > > hoppers painted PRR were passable to many, the other rolling stock was not > > PRR based. I never bought a ATSF style caboose painted PRR. The flat cars > > and gondolas also were not PRR prototypes. > > > > Next, the engines painted PRR by Athearn. This has been a pet peeve of > mine > > for years. Athearn apparenly never looked at any of the Al Stauffer books > > for reference because almost every PRR engine they painted was not > > consistent with the rest. Lets go down the list: > > > > F-7's: The Pennsy NEVER had these engines with 5 stripes! (exception FP-7) > > Also no F-3 or F-7 were ever painted in tuscan red (also exception FP-7). > > > > SW-1200: Athearn painted these with a big keystone on the cab > sides......no > > prototypical. The lettering on the hood was also wrong. > > > > PA-1's: Did produce in tuscan red 5-stripe but did a poor job of combining > > the stripes that the nose of the engines. > > > > DD-40: Painted reasonably for PRR 1960's. The only problem is that the PRR > > never owned them > > > > SD-45: ??? Athearn essentially used lettering that I think came off of a > PRR > > tender. WHY???? I personally think this is worse than the F-7's > > > > U-30-C: Here Athearn gets it pretty close.....again, why didn't they do > the > > same thing for the SD-45?? It would have been easy! > > > > S-12: Here Athearn does a reasonably good job. > > > > SD-9: Ditto. This follows the prototype well. > > > > Trainmaster: This is somewhat prototypical; the lettering on the long hood > > is pretty accurate. Yet, Athearn did a little free-lancing and placed a > > keystone on the short hoods (a la SD-9). To be honest, I like this > > treatment! I know that may be sacrelige, but I have two TM's this way and > > the keystone on the short hood enhances the engine...I think. > > > > I don't want to come across as too critical. But I think that if Athearn > > attempted to be more accurate in PRR-related stuff, that would have helped > > people model the Pennsy more easily over the years. I never bought PRR > F-7's > > from Athearn because of this. > > > > my 2 cents. > > > > > > Ted > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Make your home warm and cozy this winter with tips from MSN House & Home. > > http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn and the Pennsy Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 20:39:14 +0000 >From: Derrick J Brashear >Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn and the Pennsy >Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 14:50:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 15:47:41 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn and the Pennsy From: "Fred Rea" Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 14:40:32 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Getting to the convention Let me add another sight worth catching. A nicely restored PRR cabin. It is along US-40 a few miles East of Cambridge, and a mile or so north of I-70. It belongs to society member Dan Adair and is on a short piece of track on his brother's farm. Fred Rea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Pittsburgh area info from the Trains Web site Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 21:01:52 +0000 From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn and the Pennsy Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 21:05:40 +0000 >From: Derrick J Brashear >Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn and the Pennsy >Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 15:47:41 -0500 (EST) From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn and the Pennsy Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:16:06 -0500 From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn and the Pennsy Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 21:17:47 +0000 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:21:54 -0700 From: "Dave Mittner" Subject: [PRR] Voting Ends Tonight--HURRY! List, Midnight tonight is the deadline for placing your vote in the Name = the Painting contest. As I type this posting, there is no run-away = leader. Of the 11 names nominated the votes are 4,4,3,3,3,3,2,1,0,0,0. = Of course I will not influence any additional voting by placing the = titles next to the number of votes they have received. Final results = will be posted tomorrow afternoon. Please take a couple of minutes and use your influence in naming = this painting :http://www.users.qwest.net/~mittner/T1.jpg (even if you = were not involved in the name suggesting phase)=20 Again the nominations are(in no particular order: "Plowing Down the Broadway" "Dashing Through the Snow" "A Keystone Winter" "Christmas Rush" "Trail Blazer" "Still On Time" "Winter Thunder" "Power and Resolve" "...and with a Bone in Her Teeth" "Heading Home for the Holidays" "Almost Home" Thanks, Dave PRRT&HS #6699 Dave's Railroad Art Gallery : = http://www.users.qwest.net/~mittner/davesart.html ------=_NextPart_000_0FE5_01C3D53A.5D9F8260 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
List,
    Midnight tonight is = the deadline=20 for placing your vote in the Name the Painting contest.  As I type = this=20 posting, there is no run-away leader.  Of the 11 names nominated = the votes=20 are 4,4,3,3,3,3,2,1,0,0,0.  Of course I will not influence any = additional=20 voting by placing the titles next to the number of votes they have=20 received.  Final results will be posted tomorrow = afternoon.
    Please take a couple = of minutes=20 and use your influence in naming this painting :http://www.users.qwes= t.net/~mittner/T1.jpg (even if you were not involved in the name=20 suggesting phase) 
 
 
Again the nominations are(in no = particular=20 order:
 
 
"Plowing Down the=20 Broadway"         "Dashing Through the Snow"
 
"A Keystone=20 Winter"           =             "= Christmas Rush"
 
"Trail=20 Blazer"           =             &= nbsp;          "= Still On Time"
 
"Winter=20 Thunder"           = ;            =       "Power and Resolve"
 
"...and with a Bone in Her=20 Teeth"      "Heading=20 Home for the Holidays"
 
"Almost Home"
 
 
Thanks,  Dave
PRRT&HS #6699
Dave's Railroad Art Gallery :  http://www.use= rs.qwest.net/~mittner/davesart.html =20
------=_NextPart_000_0FE5_01C3D53A.5D9F8260-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Craig Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pittsburgh area info from the Trains Web site Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 18:38:44 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: EB 54W (Conway to Altoona?) derailed, local news (Pgh) has shown scenes of the mishap: 3 locos derailed (2 GE's & one EMD...NS 9371-NS 8311-NS 6596), two at least partially in the Kiskiminetas River (NS 8311, in Conrail paint, other 2 locos in NS black), 13 cars said to be off the tracks, carrying grain or corn, oil slick from diesel fuel (3000 gallons reported, initially reported as 9000) was in the Kiski & the Allegheny. Cause is initially reported as ground giving way following 2-4" of rain over the past few days. Engineer & conductor OK. This occurred at or near Truxall, which brings up a question: When was the old PRR coaling tower at Truxall removed? I was told once that it was sometime in the 80's. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 4:01 PM Subject: [PRR] Pittsburgh area info from the Trains Web site > Norfolk Southern train derails in Pennsylvania > > APOLLO, Pa. - A Norfolk Southern eastbound freight train from Conway Yard > near Pittsburgh to Altoona, Pa., derailed 3 locomotives and 16 of its 107 > cars Monday about 5 a.m. while crossing the Kiskiminetas ("Kiski") River on > the Conemaugh Line. One unit landed on the riverbank, and a second wound up > partway into the river, according to NS spokesman Rudy Husband. The freight > cars were loaded with corn. No one was injured. > > Oil retention booms were placed on the river to contain 3000 gallons of > diesel fuel and 600 gallons of lubricating oil, according to Betsy Mallison, > spokeswoman for the state Department of Environmental Protection. > > "It wasn't all contained," said Mallison. "The only point of containment was > at the wreckage site. Much of the material went down the river, then into the > Allegheny [River]. Once it went over the dams it was diluted and there were > no problems." Apollo is about 30 miles northeast of Pittsburgh. The Conemaugh > is an alternate freight line used by NS mostly for eastbound trains, so > Amtrak trains, which use the main line to the south between Pittsburgh and > Johnstown, were not affected. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Don E. Anderson, Jr." Subject: [PRR] Name The Painting Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 18:40:48 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: My vote is "A Keystone Winter". Thanks! Regards, Don ------------------------------------------ Don E. Anderson, Jr. Mailto:andersond@bellsouth.net All outgoing email and attachments checked with Norton Anti-Virus ------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: RE: [PRR] Voting Ends Tonight--HURRY! Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 19:01:42 -0500 From: Prr1187@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:47:06 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: Getting to the convention X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 146 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: At Dennison, the passenger car number 7007 was the ex PRR Lamb's Club, which the Dennison Depot Museum acquired from the Midwest Railway Preservation Society. Dennis In a message dated 1/7/04 2:27:04 PM, cadwelml@bp.com writes: << Add the Denison, Ohio station, which has been restored and has a variety of semi-restored passenger and freight cars in addition to a C&O 2-8-4. Several of the passenger cars are at least painted PRR, I'm not sure how many of them were actually used by the RR. -----Original Message----- From: Dan Cupper [mailto:cupper@att.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 12:55 PM To: PRR@yahoogroups.com; PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Re: Getting to the convention >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mike Brown" Subject: RE: [PRR] Voting Ends Tonight--HURRY! Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:47:15 -0500 I vote for "Still on Time". -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Dave Mittner Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 6:22 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Voting Ends Tonight--HURRY! List, Midnight tonight is the deadline for placing your vote in the Name the Painting contest. As I type this posting, there is no run-away leader. Of the 11 names nominated the votes are 4,4,3,3,3,3,2,1,0,0,0. Of course I will not influence any additional voting by placing the titles next to the number of votes they have received. Final results will be posted tomorrow afternoon. Please take a couple of minutes and use your influence in naming this painting :http://www.users.qwest.net/~mittner/T1.jpg (even if you were not involved in the name suggesting phase) Again the nominations are(in no particular order: "Plowing Down the Broadway" "Dashing Through the Snow" "A Keystone Winter" "Christmas Rush" "Trail Blazer" "Still On Time" "Winter Thunder" "Power and Resolve" "...and with a Bone in Her Teeth" "Heading Home for the Holidays" "Almost Home" Thanks, Dave PRRT&HS #6699 Dave's Railroad Art Gallery : http://www.users.qwest.net/~mittner/davesart.html ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3D557.0DD5C3D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

I vote for “Still on = Time”…

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf = Of Dave Mittner
Sent: Wednesday, January = 07, 2004 6:22 PM
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] Voting = Ends Tonight--HURRY!

 

List,

    Midnight = tonight is the deadline for placing your vote in the Name the Painting = contest.  As I type this posting, there is no run-away leader.  Of the 11 = names nominated the votes are 4,4,3,3,3,3,2,1,0,0,0.  Of course I will = not influence any additional voting by placing the titles next to the number = of votes they have received.  Final results will be posted tomorrow afternoon.

    Please = take a couple of minutes and use your influence in naming this painting = :http://www.users.qwes= t.net/~mittner/T1.jpg (even if you were not involved in the name = suggesting phase) 

 

 

Again the nominations = are(in no particular order:

 

 

"Plowing Down the Broadway"         = "Dashing Through the Snow"

 

"A Keystone Winter"          &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;"Christmas Rush"

 

"Trail Blazer"          &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &qu= ot;Still On Time"

 

"Winter Thunder"          =             &= nbsp;      "Power and Resolve"

 

"...and with a Bone in = Her Teeth"      "Heading Home for the Holidays"

 

"Almost = Home"

 

 

Thanks,  = Dave

PRRT&HS = #6699

Dave's Railroad Art Gallery = :  http://www.use= rs.qwest.net/~mittner/davesart.html 

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3D557.0DD5C3D0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 21:41:46 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] No SDs in Madison In a message dated 1/7/04 12:34:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: 2004 convention > From: > Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 20:20:35 +0000 > > Madison is only 30-50 miles west of Cincy. I wonder if anyone is planning > to > visit while in the area. Wouldn't it be cool if the group could arrange to > ride up and down the grade pulled by one of the ex PRR SD's! They are still > > used there aren't they? Hi Norm, Alas, the only two SD7's PRR ever had left when Conrail let the line go. If they are still alive somewhere, they would be 50 years old now. Their place was taken by much less remarkable EMD 4-motors, sans Pennsy heritage. The Madison Railroad is still very much alive to serve customers above The Hill, but has not run down the grade since 1993. The only customer remaining down on the river is the power plant, and 1993 was the last time they needed to move any equipment. The Hill was rehabbed for that move, including cutting down trees growing between the rails. As you might expect, since then, young trees are again taking over the track, particularly in the long cut. The good news is that the town of Madison Indiana is interesting to visit and an antiquer's magnet. Their reproduction? of the "octagonal" depot is a museum, with a nice selection of pictures of rail operations in the 19th century. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 21:41:46 EST Subject: [PRR] No SDs in Madison In a message dated 1/7/04 12:34:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: 2004 convention > From: > Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 20:20:35 +0000 > > Madison is only 30-50 miles west of Cincy. I wonder if anyone is planning > to > visit while in the area. Wouldn't it be cool if the group could arrange to > ride up and down the grade pulled by one of the ex PRR SD's! They are still > > used there aren't they? Hi Norm, Alas, the only two SD7's PRR ever had left when Conrail let the line go. If they are still alive somewhere, they would be 50 years old now. Their place was taken by much less remarkable EMD 4-motors, sans Pennsy heritage. The Madison Railroad is still very much alive to serve customers above The Hill, but has not run down the grade since 1993. The only customer remaining down on the river is the power plant, and 1993 was the last time they needed to move any equipment. The Hill was rehabbed for that move, including cutting down trees growing between the rails. As you might expect, since then, young trees are again taking over the track, particularly in the long cut. The good news is that the town of Madison Indiana is interesting to visit and an antiquer's magnet. Their reproduction? of the "octagonal" depot is a museum, with a nice selection of pictures of rail operations in the 19th century. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_149.1fd48b88.2d2e1d6a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 1/7/04 12:34:23=20= AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:


Subject: 2004 convention
From: <ndbprr@att.net>
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 20:20:35 +0000

Madison is only 30-50 miles west of Cincy.  I wonder if anyone is plann= ing to
visit while in the area.  Wouldn't it be cool if the group could arrang= e to
ride up and down the grade pulled by one of the ex PRR SD's!  They are=20= still
used there aren't they?


Hi Norm,

Alas, the only two SD7's PRR ever had left when Conrail let the line go.&nbs= p; If they are still alive somewhere, they would be 50 years old now. =20= Their place was taken by much less remarkable EMD 4-motors, sans Pennsy heri= tage.

The Madison Railroad is still very much alive to serve customers above The H= ill, but has not run down the grade since 1993.  The only customer rema= ining down on the river is the power plant, and 1993 was the last time they=20= needed to move any equipment.  The Hill was rehabbed for that move, inc= luding cutting down trees growing between the rails.

As you might expect, since then, young trees are again taking over the track= , particularly in the long cut.

The good news is that the town of Madison Indiana is interesting to visit an= d an antiquer's magnet.  Their reproduction? of the "octagonal" depot i= s a museum, with a nice selection of pictures of rail operations in the 19th= century.

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_149.1fd48b88.2d2e1d6a_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jean Gagne" Subject: [PRR] Passenger trains in 1960 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 22:00:15 -0500 I have a book mentionning that there were 21 passenger trains travelling = on the Middle Division in 1960. Can anyone tell me which ones ? I only = have the 1955 ETT and there were more than twice that number. Thanks ! John ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3D569.A1AF2BC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
I have a book mentionning that there = were 21=20 passenger trains travelling on the Middle Division in 1960. Can anyone = tell me=20 which ones ? I only have the 1955 ETT and there were more than twice = that=20 number.
 
Thanks !
 
John
 
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3D569.A1AF2BC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Subject: Re: [PRR] Voting Ends Tonight--HURRY! Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 20:08:45 -0600 Hi Dave I have not voted yet, so let me add my two cents worth. My vote: "Dashing Through the Snow" Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist, Proud SPF PRRTHS #1204 President Penn Texas Chapter ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dave Mittner=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, 07 January, 2004 5:21 PM Subject: [PRR] Voting Ends Tonight--HURRY! List, Midnight tonight is the deadline for placing your vote in the Name = the Painting contest. As I type this posting, there is no run-away = leader. Of the 11 names nominated the votes are 4,4,3,3,3,3,2,1,0,0,0. = Of course I will not influence any additional voting by placing the = titles next to the number of votes they have received. Final results = will be posted tomorrow afternoon. Please take a couple of minutes and use your influence in naming = this painting :http://www.users.qwest.net/~mittner/T1.jpg (even if you = were not involved in the name suggesting phase)=20 Again the nominations are(in no particular order: "Plowing Down the Broadway" "Dashing Through the Snow" "A Keystone Winter" "Christmas Rush" "Trail Blazer" "Still On Time" "Winter Thunder" "Power and Resolve" "...and with a Bone in Her Teeth" "Heading Home for the Holidays" "Almost Home" Thanks, Dave PRRT&HS #6699 Dave's Railroad Art Gallery : = http://www.users.qwest.net/~mittner/davesart.html ------=_NextPart_000_006A_01C3D55A.0E4E6EE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Dave
 
I have not voted yet, so let me add my two cents=20 worth.
 
My vote:  "Dashing Through the = Snow"
 
Morgan Bilbo
Ferroequinologist, Proud = SPF
PRRTHS=20 #1204
President Penn Texas Chapter
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Dave = Mittner=20
Sent: Wednesday, 07 January, = 2004 5:21=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] Voting Ends=20 Tonight--HURRY!

List,
    Midnight tonight = is the=20 deadline for placing your vote in the Name the Painting contest.  = As I=20 type this posting, there is no run-away leader.  Of the 11 names=20 nominated the votes are 4,4,3,3,3,3,2,1,0,0,0.  Of course I will = not=20 influence any additional voting by placing the titles next to the = number of=20 votes they have received.  Final results will be posted tomorrow=20 afternoon.
    Please take a = couple of=20 minutes and use your influence in naming this painting :http://www.users.qwes= t.net/~mittner/T1.jpg (even if you were not involved in the name = suggesting phase) 
 
 
Again the nominations are(in no = particular=20 order:
 
 
"Plowing Down the=20 Broadway"         = "Dashing Through the Snow"
 
"A Keystone=20 = Winter"           =             "= Christmas Rush"
 
"Trail=20 = Blazer"           =             &= nbsp;          "= Still On Time"
 
"Winter=20 = Thunder"           = ;            =       "Power and Resolve"
 
"...and with a Bone in Her=20 Teeth"      "Heading=20 Home for the Holidays"
 
"Almost Home"
 
 
Thanks,  Dave
PRRT&HS #6699
Dave's Railroad Art Gallery :  = http://www.use= rs.qwest.net/~mittner/davesart.html =20
------=_NextPart_000_006A_01C3D55A.0E4E6EE0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 22:32:44 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Passenger trains in 1960 John, Hope this helps. From the October 29, 1961 Pittsburgh Region Time Table No. 11 55, 61, 13, 25, 9, 33, 23, 31, 49, 29, 39, 37, 17, 3 (Harrisburg - Pittsburgh) 48, 28, 30, 50, 32, 10, 16, 12, 24, 18, 22, 60, 4 (Pittsburgh - Harrisburg) Rich Orr --part1_170.2860e1d4.2d2e295c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" John,

Hope this helps.  From the October 29, 1961 Pittsburgh Region Time Tabl= e No. 11

55, 61, 13, 25, 9, 33, 23, 31, 49, 29, 39, 37, 17, 3  (Harrisburg - Pit= tsburgh)
48, 28, 30, 50, 32, 10, 16, 12, 24, 18, 22, 60, 4 (Pittsburgh - Harrisburg)<= BR>
Rich Orr --part1_170.2860e1d4.2d2e295c_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 23:01:43 EST Subject: [PRR] Brick'n Mortar vs. Mail Order Houses As one PRR-Talk member said, hitting the subject squarely on the head, "you have to be willing to change." As with any other business, a hobby shop has to make a profit which means in today's market getting a piece of the mail order and internet sales and carrying other hobby items outside of the shop's main fair. At a major (formerly trains only) hobby shop, where I have worked part-time since 97, almost seventy per cent of their business comes from mail order, internet and phone order customers. Also, to keep the shop financially sound, the shop now carries slot cars, die cast metal models and some introductory level R/C airplanes. Another noticeable change is that the large amount of stagnant shelf stock no longer exists, which has freed cash for the purchase of new releases. While stuffed shelves are impressive to the modeler, they are bad business resulting in the owner's ledger filling with red ink. Oh yes, then there is the factor of ready-to-run versus kits and scratchbuilding supplies. Unfortunately for those of us who love to assemble kits, scratchbuild and custom decorate our models, the meat of the hobby is now firmly in the hands of the ready-to-run customer. Are we doomed to enjoy our hobby only as operators? I hope not. BTW, the official word from Athearn is that they will still be offering their "blue box" kits. Red Caboose also orders some kits with most of their ready-to-run production runs. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1073534503 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
    As one PRR-Talk member said, hitting the subject&nbs= p;squarely on the head,  "you have to be willing to change."  = ; As with any other business, a hobby shop has to make a profit which means=20= in today's market getting a piece of the mail order and internet sales=20= and carrying other hobby items outside of the shop's main fair.  At a m= ajor (formerly trains only) hobby shop, where I have worked part-time since=20= 97, almost seventy per cent of their business comes from mail order, interne= t and phone order customers.  Also, to keep the shop financially s= ound, the shop now carries slot cars, die cast metal models and some introdu= ctory level R/C airplanes.  Another noticeable change is that the large= amount of stagnant shelf stock no longer exists, which has freed = cash for the purchase of new releases. While stuffed shelves are impres= sive to the modeler,  they are bad business resulting in the owner's le= dger filling with red ink.
 
  Oh yes, then there is the factor of ready-to-run versus kits and= scratchbuilding supplies.  Unfortunately for those of us who love to a= ssemble kits, scratchbuild and custom decorate our models,  the meat of= the hobby is now firmly in the hands of the ready-to-run customer.  Ar= e we doomed to enjoy our hobby only as operators?  I hope not.
 
  BTW, the official word from Athearn is that they will still be o= ffering their "blue box" kits.  Red Caboose also orders some kits with=20= most of their ready-to-run production runs. 
 
Evan Leisey
RCT&HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phi= la.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1073534503-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 23:06:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] T1 Mail Trains, MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, Now that many people are waiting the arrival of their BLI T1, one will need to tie a train on the rear of the tender. Decisions Decisions. Which way to go? Being this is a very late 40's looking loco (pretty hard to back date with that cut down tender) one can choose from 1: a downgraded Passenger Extra, 2: maybe a last hold out mainline Blue Ribbon Train (Manhattan Ltd?) or 3: what I plan on using it for, that ever present Mail Train. Info is now needed to share with all what exactly these T1's pulled in the 1948-1949ish time period. That is info I do not have. Many people need some help here. Anyone want to share their "make up of trains" or consist info for these type trains powered by a T1? The mail train will most likely be the simplist to replicate. But any consist info is greatly appreciated. Now if we can talk BLI into another run in the next year or so that represents a T1 in it's 1946 looking shroud with the portholes. Send your request for that loco to BLI. ..........Thanks, .Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Michael Hauk" Subject: [PRR] RE: Name the Painting Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 23:35:18 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <1138592441-517570772@dsop.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I vote for my own submission: "...And with a Bone in Her Teeth." I still like that title, for a number of reasons I won't bore the list with; although I would be first to acknowledge that this would certainly be an obscure title for a Christmas card. Mike H. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "prr643" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 643 update Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 23:26:25 -0500 Hello all. I'm a member of the group at Williams Grove. I just wanted = to let you all know we now have a website for our overhaul of 643. In = fact I just updated it today with new pictures of the work, including = the boiler being lifted off the frame. The boiler is currently in = Landisville awaiting space in the shop. To try and keep costs down the = work is being down as filler. We don't have a timeframe for completion = yet, and there are still much in the way of funds to be raised, but we = are pressing on. The optomists in the group hope for Steam show 2005, = but that may be to much to hope for. Please check out the site at = http://www.williamsgrove.org/643 Thanks all who have supported us, and = we ask for your contiued support in the long road ahead. Tom von Trott=20 =20 From: KLJURY@aol.com=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:02 PM Subject: [PRR] PRR 643 update Here's an update on the 643 from the January 2004 newsletter of the = Harrisburg Chapter NRHS: Williams Grove Historical Steam Engine Assoc. no.643 has been down = for rebuilding for over a year. The ex-PRR 0-6-0 B4a was first diagnosed with a bad crown = sheet, so the boiler was removed and sent to a shop near Lancaster (not = Strasburg's) for work. Once there, a problem with the firebox was also found, so it will be = repaired at the same time. Another major repair will be to have the frame straightened. This = problem came with the 643 when it was obtained from Phoenix Steel in = 1960 and has been around ever since. It explains why the front and rear = (cab) of the locomotive always appeared to sag. Since the boiler is off = the group decided to fix the frame. Estimated costs of all these = projects is $150,000.00 and the Association is requesting donations. = Mail them to: WGHSEA, P.O. Box 509, Mechanicsburg, Pa 17055 It looks like this small group of volunteers may be able to get the = 643 back under steam again as the only operating PRR steam locomotive long before the = 1361!!! ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C3D575.AAD68020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello all. I'm a member of the group at Williams Grove.  I = just wanted=20 to let you all know we now have a website for our overhaul of 643.  = In fact=20 I just updated it today with new pictures of the work, including the = boiler=20 being lifted off the frame.  The boiler is currently in Landisville = awaiting space in the shop. To try and keep costs down the work is being = down as=20 filler.  We don't have a timeframe for completion yet, = and there=20 are still much in the way of funds to be raised, but we are pressing = on. =20 The optomists in the group hope for Steam show 2005, but that may = be to=20 much to hope for.  Please check out the site at http://www.williamsgrove.org/64= 3=20 Thanks all who have supported us, and we ask for your = contiued=20 support in the long road ahead.
 
Tom von Trott
 
  
From:=20 KLJURY@aol.com
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 = 10:02=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] PRR 643 = update

Here's an update on the 643 from the January 2004 newsletter of = the=20 Harrisburg Chapter
NRHS:
  Williams Grove Historical Steam Engine Assoc. no.643 has = been down=20 for rebuilding for
over a year. The ex-PRR 0-6-0 B4a was first diagnosed with a bad = crown=20 sheet, so the boiler was removed and sent to a shop near Lancaster = (not=20 Strasburg's) for work. Once
there, a problem with the firebox was also found, so it will be = repaired=20 at the same time.
Another major repair will be to have the frame straightened. This = problem=20 came with the 643 when it was obtained from Phoenix Steel in 1960 and = has been=20 around ever since. It explains why the front and rear (cab) of the = locomotive=20 always appeared to sag. Since the boiler is off the group decided to = fix the=20 frame. Estimated costs of all these projects is $150,000.00 and the=20 Association is requesting donations. Mail them to:
WGHSEA, P.O. Box 509, Mechanicsburg, Pa 17055
 
   It looks like this small group of volunteers = may be=20 able to get the 643 back under steam
again as the only operating PRR steam locomotive long before the=20 1361!!!
------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C3D575.AAD68020-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "prr643" Subject: [PRR] URL for PRR 643 site Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 23:38:03 -0500 Opps, the URL for this site was not quite right in my message, it is = actually http://www.williamsgrovesteam.org/643 sorry about that. Tom von Trott ----- Original Message -----=20 From: prr643=20 To: KLJURY@aol.com ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 11:26 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 643 update Hello all. I'm a member of the group at Williams Grove. I just wanted = to let you all know we now have a website for our overhaul of 643. In = fact I just updated it today with new pictures of the work, including = the boiler being lifted off the frame. The boiler is currently in = Landisville awaiting space in the shop. To try and keep costs down the = work is being down as filler. We don't have a timeframe for completion = yet, and there are still much in the way of funds to be raised, but we = are pressing on. The optomists in the group hope for Steam show 2005, = but that may be to much to hope for. Please check out the site at = http://www.williamsgrove.org/643 Thanks all who have supported us, and = we ask for your contiued support in the long road ahead. Tom von Trott=20 =20 From: KLJURY@aol.com=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:02 PM Subject: [PRR] PRR 643 update Here's an update on the 643 from the January 2004 newsletter of the = Harrisburg Chapter NRHS: Williams Grove Historical Steam Engine Assoc. no.643 has been down = for rebuilding for over a year. The ex-PRR 0-6-0 B4a was first diagnosed with a bad = crown sheet, so the boiler was removed and sent to a shop near Lancaster = (not Strasburg's) for work. Once there, a problem with the firebox was also found, so it will be = repaired at the same time. Another major repair will be to have the frame straightened. This = problem came with the 643 when it was obtained from Phoenix Steel in = 1960 and has been around ever since. It explains why the front and rear = (cab) of the locomotive always appeared to sag. Since the boiler is off = the group decided to fix the frame. Estimated costs of all these = projects is $150,000.00 and the Association is requesting donations. = Mail them to: WGHSEA, P.O. Box 509, Mechanicsburg, Pa 17055 It looks like this small group of volunteers may be able to get = the 643 back under steam again as the only operating PRR steam locomotive long before the = 1361!!! ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C3D577.4B30CDE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Opps, the URL for this site was not quite right in my message, it = is=20 actually http://www.williamsgrovest= eam.org/643=20 sorry about that.
 
Tom von Trott
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 prr643
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, = 2004 11:26=20 PM
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 643 = update

Hello all. I'm a member of the group at Williams Grove.  I = just=20 wanted to let you all know we now have a website for our overhaul of=20 643.  In fact I just updated it today with new pictures of the = work,=20 including the boiler being lifted off the frame.  The boiler is = currently=20 in Landisville awaiting space in the shop. To try and keep costs down = the work=20 is being down as filler.  We don't have a timeframe for = completion yet, and there are still much in the way of funds to be = raised, but=20 we are pressing on.  The optomists in the group hope for Steam = show 2005,=20 but that may be to much to hope for.  Please check out the = site at=20 http://www.williamsgrove.org/64= 3=20 Thanks all who have supported us, and we ask for your = contiued=20 support in the long road ahead.
 
Tom von Trott
 
  
From:=20 KLJURY@aol.com=20
Sent: Monday, January 05, = 2004 10:02=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] PRR 643 = update

Here's an update on the 643 from the January 2004 newsletter of = the=20 Harrisburg Chapter
NRHS:
  Williams Grove Historical Steam Engine Assoc. no.643 has = been=20 down for rebuilding for
over a year. The ex-PRR 0-6-0 B4a was first diagnosed with a = bad crown=20 sheet, so the boiler was removed and sent to a shop near Lancaster = (not=20 Strasburg's) for work. Once
there, a problem with the firebox was also found, so it will be = repaired at the same time.
Another major repair will be to have the frame straightened. = This=20 problem came with the 643 when it was obtained from Phoenix Steel in = 1960=20 and has been around ever since. It explains why the front and rear = (cab) of=20 the locomotive always appeared to sag. Since the boiler is off the = group=20 decided to fix the frame. Estimated costs of all these projects is=20 $150,000.00 and the Association is requesting donations. Mail them = to:
WGHSEA, P.O. Box 509, Mechanicsburg, Pa 17055
 
   It looks like this small group of volunteers = may be=20 able to get the 643 back under steam
again as the only operating PRR steam locomotive long before = the=20 1361!!!
------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C3D577.4B30CDE0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] BLI T1 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 23:40:45 -0600 Ran my new T1 at the club today. A few comments. First, the only real negative I found so far: I challenge someone from = BLI to get their friggin' tender body off the chassis using the = instructions included. I gave up to avoid doing damage to the tender. Minor point: to me the loco is just a tad too green,not bad, but not = perfect either, whatever that is (depends on the viewer). I like the flexibility of changing the volume on all functions = individually. Very easy on the main in Ops mode programming. Its a good = thing---see my first comments above about accessing the master volume = control in the tender. Once the loco has the sounds tuned down in volume so they are not = overdriving the speakers to distortion (a common failing in the default = settings on current sound systems in RTR locos), the sound was quite = good. =20 The low to top speed motor control is spectacularly smooth. I backed a = 10 car passenger train down a 2.5% curving grade to staging and felt = secure. Backing 70 feet with bell ringing and four cylinders chuffing = at a steady 5 mph or so sure is a turn-on. The loco pulled those 10 cars (3 brass plus 7 NMRA weighted plastic = cars) out of the 2.5% grade on the straightaway very smoothly. When it = reached a final curve at the crest of the grade it began to slip---might = also have been uneven track. On the visible 1.5% curving grade it never = hesitated. When I got my manual stating it was "for nonarticulated locos" I = panicked that the four-cylinder effect wouldn't be there. Not only was = it there, it was awesome. Fellow club members were impressed with the = front and rear cylinders going in and out of synch, especially on = accelerating under load. They were similarly very impressed, as I was, = with the Doppler effect of the whistle. I still have to learn how to = play with that more. I don't know how accurate the whistle is to a = T1's---sounds great to me, though. Only other glitch is that I have to reprogram the bell button on my NCE = system to the bell---the default is to the uncoupling sound on the BLI = decoder---a minor programming step. The light coming up to full brightness as the generator winds up is = impressive---dunno if that is prototypical or exaggerated. It would = have been a nice touch if the fog light was working and individually = controllable---don't think it is unless I missed the fine print in the = manual (gotta download the full manual from the web) I am still wondering what the minimum radius is for the loco with the = optional flanged middle drivers installed. The blind drivers looked = like they were on the edge on our 37.5 and 40 inch radius curves so I = left well enough alone. They are sprung which might account for the = fairly reliable tracking and contact continuity. A great experience overall. Can't wait to learn all the subtleties of = operating my new toy. That T1 with a train including a few of the latest Walthers FOM cars and = the through two-tone gray Pullman sleeper Imperial Point with full = skirts shows we've come a long way, baby, in Pennsy modeling since my = teen years in the 50's. Bob Zoeller ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C3D577.ABE3BF80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Ran my new T1 at the club today.  = A few=20 comments.
 
First, the only real negative I found = so far: =20 I challenge someone from BLI to get their friggin' tender body off the = chassis=20 using the instructions included.  I gave up to avoid doing damage = to the=20 tender.
 
Minor point: to me the loco is just a = tad too=20 green,not bad, but not perfect either, whatever that is (depends on the=20 viewer).
 
I like the flexibility of changing the = volume on=20 all functions individually.  Very easy on the main in Ops mode = programming.=20 Its a good thing---see my first comments above about accessing the = master volume=20 control in the tender.
 
Once the loco has the sounds tuned down = in volume=20 so they are not overdriving the speakers to distortion (a common failing = in the=20 default settings on current sound systems in RTR locos), the sound was = quite=20 good. 
 
The low to top speed motor control is = spectacularly=20 smooth.  I backed a 10 car passenger train down a 2.5% curving = grade to=20 staging and felt secure.  Backing 70 feet with bell ringing and = four=20 cylinders chuffing at a steady 5 mph or so sure is a = turn-on.
 
The loco pulled those 10 cars (3 brass = plus 7 NMRA=20 weighted plastic cars) out of the 2.5% grade on the straightaway very=20 smoothly.  When it reached a final curve at the crest of the grade = it began=20 to slip---might also have been uneven track.  On the visible 1.5% = curving=20 grade it never hesitated.
 
When I got my manual stating it = was  "for=20 nonarticulated locos" I panicked that the four-cylinder effect wouldn't = be=20 there.  Not only was it there, it was awesome. Fellow club members = were=20 impressed with the front and rear cylinders going in and out of synch,=20 especially on accelerating under load.  They were similarly very = impressed,=20 as I was, with the Doppler effect of the whistle.  I still have to = learn=20 how to play with that more.  I don't know how accurate the whistle = is to a=20 T1's---sounds great to me, though.
 
Only other glitch is that I have to = reprogram the=20 bell button on my NCE system to the bell---the default is to the = uncoupling=20 sound on the BLI decoder---a minor programming step.
 
The light coming up to full brightness = as the=20 generator winds up is impressive---dunno if that is prototypical or=20 exaggerated.  It would have been a nice touch if the fog light was = working=20 and individually controllable---don't think it is unless I missed the = fine print=20 in the manual (gotta download the full manual from the web)
 
I am still wondering what the minimum = radius is for=20 the loco with the optional flanged middle drivers installed.  The = blind=20 drivers looked like they were on the edge on our 37.5 and 40 inch radius = curves=20 so I left well enough alone. They are sprung which might account for the = fairly=20 reliable tracking and contact continuity.
 
A great experience overall.  Can't = wait to=20 learn all the subtleties of operating my new toy.
That T1 with a train including a few of = the latest=20 Walthers FOM cars and the through two-tone gray Pullman sleeper Imperial = Point with  full skirts shows we've come a long way, = baby, in=20 Pennsy modeling since my teen years in the 50's.
 
Bob = Zoeller
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C3D577.ABE3BF80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Listmaster Subject: [PRR] TANGENT - Francis Treves Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 06:28:07 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Francis Treves, if you are out there, please contact me. ---------------------------------------- Listmaster listmaster@dsop.com Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-Modeling@egroups.com, PRR-Talk@dsop.com From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 Mail Trains, Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 06:33:55 -0500 To: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Jan 7, 2004, at 11:06 PM, Gary Mittner wrote: > Info is now needed to share with all what exactly these T1's pulled > in the 1948-1949ish time period. Gary: At this time the E7's would have just shown up and have been placed on the main "Blue Ribbon" trains (B'way Limited, Liberty Limited, etc.). The T1's would have still been in favor, I would think. Likely candidates might be The General, The Trailblazer, The Jeffersonian, etc. Also in this time frame would have been the brand new P85b coaches (Centralia/InterMountain). Walthers R50b's and Red Caboose REA X29's are good fits for head end. One manufacturer has indicated to me that B60b baggage cars will be coming in RtR. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 08:00:10 EST Subject: [PRR] BLI PRR T1 Ditto Bob Z's report on this loco. The programming is still not complete and the adjustment of the individual sounds is a very neat feature. Yes, the lights coming up slowly when the generator is applied is prototypical. On the prototype with the electrical load off, the generator comes up fast but with a load it is noticeably slower in reaching speed. Saw the same with the blind drivers, 40" radius appears to be the minimum reliable curve with a train. On tighter curves the lead driver on the first engine was seen to be raising off of the railhead. The loco that was to have had the flanged drivers installed was not ready in time for the trials. Also very noticeable was the improved handling of curves where easement and super elevation occurred. It tracked flawlessly through these curves while it slowed when tracking through a flat curve without easement approaching the coach yard. Hum...probably wouldn't have seen a T running into the coach yard anyway. Out on the mainline with a minimum radius of 45", this model is awesome when viewed at eye level. Pulling power will lift any prototype length train very, very smoothly. Put your Big Boys and Challengers away boys, a T rules the main! :o) Over all, all present were favorably impressed with this loco. Now to hope for the loco to be done in the "as built" version as Gary M. has mentioned. I have emailed BLI with a request for another run in the "as built" configuration. Anyone else interested in seeing an "as built" version of this model? Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1073566810 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
   Ditto Bob Z's report on this loco.  The programm= ing is still not complete and the adjustment of the individual sounds is a v= ery neat feature.
 
  Yes, the lights coming up slowly when the generator is applied i= s prototypical.  On the prototype with the electrical load off, the gen= erator comes up fast but with a load it is noticeably slower in reachin= g speed.
 
  Saw the same with the blind drivers,  40" radius appears to= be the minimum reliable curve with a train.  On tighter curves the lea= d driver on the first engine was seen to be raising off of the railhead.&nbs= p; The loco that was to have had the flanged drivers installed was not ready= in time for the trials.  Also very noticeable was the improved handlin= g of curves where easement and super elevation occurred.  It tracked fl= awlessly through these curves while it slowed when tracking through a flat c= urve without easement approaching the coach yard.  Hum...probably would= n't have seen a T running into the coach yard anyway.    Out=20= on the mainline with a minimum radius of 45", this model is awesome whe= n viewed at eye level.  Pulling power will lift any prototype = ;length train very, very smoothly. Put your Big Boys and Challenge= rs away boys, a T rules the main!  :o)
 
  Over all, all present were favorably impressed with this loco.&n= bsp; Now to hope for the loco to be done in the "as built" version= as Gary M. has mentioned.  I have emailed BLI with a request for anoth= er run in the "as built" configuration.  Anyone else interested in seei= ng an "as built" version of this model?
 

Evan Leisey
RCT&HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila= .) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1073566810-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 08:10:07 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] TAN: Internet shopping Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bruce: their address and how to order please... Jim McDaniel, boonies, Virginia ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 08:46:11 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 Mail Trains, Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: B60b baggage cars KITS in HO have been available from Bethlehem, and then ECW for some time. However, the rumored Walthers B60b could be a major improvement (better trucks, properly recessed doors). Also worth consideration are the forthcoming Branchline REA Express reefers. While Walthers did the 1955 version, Branchline is doing the 1948 version. Other candidates for a PRR mail train are the Bethlehem M70b and the Rivarossi BM70n(?). The Rivarossi's kitbash nicely into the far more common BM70m. (Grantline windows, Bethlehem roof, Keystone Loco Works 6 wheel trucks). If a converted troop sleeper ever appears in HO (P2K?), you could use one from the NH. I can't recall ever seeing a picture of a PRR mail train without a NH mail storage car. I have been running 20-25 car mail trains at the North Shore Club for a long time, usually behind E7/8s or K4s. I am looking forward to using the new T1. Regards, Andy Miller ======================================================= "Jerry @ Pennsy" wrote: > On Jan 7, 2004, at 11:06 PM, Gary Mittner wrote: > > > Info is now needed to share with all what exactly these T1's pulled > > in the 1948-1949ish time period. > > Gary: > > At this time the E7's would have just shown up and have been placed on > the main "Blue Ribbon" trains (B'way Limited, Liberty Limited, etc.). > The T1's would have still been in favor, I would think. Likely > candidates might be The General, The Trailblazer, The Jeffersonian, > etc. > > Also in this time frame would have been the brand new P85b coaches > (Centralia/InterMountain). Walthers R50b's and Red Caboose REA X29's > are good fits for head end. One manufacturer has indicated to me that > B60b baggage cars will be coming in RtR. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 08:47:07 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 Mail Trains, Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: B60b baggage cars KITS in HO have been available from Bethlehem, and then ECW for some time. However, the rumored Walthers B60b could be a major improvement (better trucks, properly recessed doors). Also worth consideration are the forthcoming Branchline REA Express reefers. While Walthers did the 1955 version, Branchline is doing the 1948 version. Other candidates for a PRR mail train are the Bethlehem M70b and the Rivarossi BM70n(?). The Rivarossi's kitbash nicely into the far more common BM70m. (Grantline windows, Bethlehem roof, Keystone Loco Works 6 wheel trucks). If a converted troop sleeper ever appears in HO (P2K?), you could use one from the NH. I can't recall ever seeing a picture of a PRR mail train without a NH mail storage car. I have been running 20-25 car mail trains at the North Shore Club for a long time, usually behind E7/8s or K4s. I am looking forward to using the new T1. Regards, Andy Miller ======================================================= "Jerry @ Pennsy" wrote: > On Jan 7, 2004, at 11:06 PM, Gary Mittner wrote: > > > Info is now needed to share with all what exactly these T1's pulled > > in the 1948-1949ish time period. > > Gary: > > At this time the E7's would have just shown up and have been placed on > the main "Blue Ribbon" trains (B'way Limited, Liberty Limited, etc.). > The T1's would have still been in favor, I would think. Likely > candidates might be The General, The Trailblazer, The Jeffersonian, > etc. > > Also in this time frame would have been the brand new P85b coaches > (Centralia/InterMountain). Walthers R50b's and Red Caboose REA X29's > are good fits for head end. One manufacturer has indicated to me that > B60b baggage cars will be coming in RtR. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] OT-Randy Williamson Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 07:49:20 -0600 Randy, could you contact me offline at bobspf@wi.rr.com. ? I lost your = email address. TIA Bob Zoeller Bayside, WI ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C3D5BB.ECCD3D20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Randy, could you contact me offline at = bobspf@wi.rr.com. ?  I lost = your email=20 address.
 
TIA
 
Bob Zoeller
Bayside, WI
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C3D5BB.ECCD3D20-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 08:50:43 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 Mail Trains, Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: B60b baggage cars KITS in HO have been available from Bethlehem, and then ECW for some time. However, the rumored Walthers B60b could be a major improvement (better trucks, properly recessed doors). Also worth consideration are the forthcoming Branchline REA Express reefers. While Walthers did the 1955 version, Branchline is doing the 1948 version. Other candidates for a PRR mail train are the Bethlehem M70b and the Rivarossi BM70n(?). The Rivarossi's kitbash nicely into the far more common BM70m. (Grantline windows, Bethlehem roof, Keystone Loco Works 6 wheel trucks). If a converted troop sleeper ever appears in HO (P2K?), you could use one from the NH. I can't recall ever seeing a picture of a PRR mail train without a NH mail storage car. I have been running 20-25 car mail trains at the North Shore Club for a long time, usually behind E7/8s or K4s. I am looking forward to using the new T1. Regards, Andy Miller ======================================================= "Jerry @ Pennsy" wrote: > On Jan 7, 2004, at 11:06 PM, Gary Mittner wrote: > > > Info is now needed to share with all what exactly these T1's pulled > > in the 1948-1949ish time period. > > Gary: > > At this time the E7's would have just shown up and have been placed on > the main "Blue Ribbon" trains (B'way Limited, Liberty Limited, etc.). > The T1's would have still been in favor, I would think. Likely > candidates might be The General, The Trailblazer, The Jeffersonian, > etc. > > Also in this time frame would have been the brand new P85b coaches > (Centralia/InterMountain). Walthers R50b's and Red Caboose REA X29's > are good fits for head end. One manufacturer has indicated to me that > B60b baggage cars will be coming in RtR. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 08:58:57 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 Mail Trains, From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, January 8, 2004, at 08:47 AM, Andrew S. Miller wrote: > B60b baggage cars KITS in HO have been available from Bethlehem, and > then ECW > for some time. However, the rumored Walthers B60b could be a major > improvement (better trucks, properly recessed doors). While the Walthers B60b has indeed been rumored, I was referring to a different manufacturer, FWIW, so there may actually be two such projects in the works. I've been told that the parts are already overseas for assembly. > Also worth > consideration are the forthcoming Branchline REA Express reefers. > While > Walthers did the 1955 version, Branchline is doing the 1948 version. > Other > candidates for a PRR mail train are the Bethlehem M70b and the > Rivarossi > BM70n(?). The Rivarossi's kitbash nicely into the far more common > BM70m. A BM70m would be an excellent choice for some manufacturer to do in RtR. It would be popular in both HO and N. It was also the class that ran on the Broadway Limited. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI PRR T1 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 14:04:56 +0000 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 09:23:13 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 Mail Trains, Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry Britton wrote: > On Thursday, January 8, 2004, at 08:47 AM, Andrew S. Miller wrote: > > > B60b baggage cars KITS in HO have been available from Bethlehem, and > > then ECW > > for some time. However, the rumored Walthers B60b could be a major > > improvement (better trucks, properly recessed doors). > > While the Walthers B60b has indeed been rumored, I was referring to a > different manufacturer, FWIW, so there may actually be two such > projects in the works. I've been told that the parts are already > overseas for assembly. I'm sorry to hear that. I would much prefer that the parts were in boxes with instructions ready to be sold! > > > > Also worth > > consideration are the forthcoming Branchline REA Express reefers. > > While > > Walthers did the 1955 version, Branchline is doing the 1948 version. > > Other > > candidates for a PRR mail train are the Bethlehem M70b and the > > Rivarossi > > BM70n(?). The Rivarossi's kitbash nicely into the far more common > > BM70m. > > A BM70m would be an excellent choice for some manufacturer to do in > RtR. It would be popular in both HO and N. It was also the class that > ran on the Broadway Limited. I believe that the BM70n was the more common car on the Broadway, but the BM70m was the more numerous and likely to be seen on all the other trains. BM70k's with their 30 ft mail apartment, were the dominant RPO on branch lines and short runs. I am still waiting for one of those in HO. While I agree that a BM70m would be a good choice in HO, I hope that it would be available as kit. I'd hate to add to the long list of cars I passed on because they were only available if I let some Chinese girl enjoy my hobby for me. I still don't own any P85b's other than the ones I scratch built several years ago. Regards, Andrew S. Miller ======================================================= > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 10:32:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 Mail Trains, From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, January 8, 2004, at 09:23 AM, Andrew S. Miller wrote: >> A BM70m would be an excellent choice for some manufacturer to do in >> RtR. It would be popular in both HO and N. It was also the class that >> ran on the Broadway Limited. > > I believe that the BM70n was the more common car on the Broadway, but > the > BM70m was the more numerous and likely to be seen on all the other > trains. In 1953 and 1954, it was definitely a BM70m that was specified for the Broadway. I don't have the new TLC on hand at the moment, but my recollection is -- and I specifically looked -- that in 1952 it was also a BM70m. > BM70k's with their 30 ft mail apartment, were the dominant RPO on > branch > lines and short runs. I was shocked when Hell Gate Models chose to do the BM70k over the BM70m. But a quick look at the roster revealed that these cars were darn near in numbers. The k's were indeed more often seen on branches. Rostered as of 9/54: (46) BM70m, (56) BM70k, and only (15) BM70n. Note: You'll get higher quantities if you consider further subclassifications, such as BM70ka and BM70nb, etc. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 08:02:08 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 Mail Trains, From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Cincinnati Convention Dates Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 13:54:38 -0500 Would someone please sent me the new, updated dates for this years = convention in Cincinnati? I have so many messages with dates, date = changes, messages correcting errors, etc, that I have no confidence = whatsoever that I'm sure just what dates to plan for and make = reservations for. I also have numerous messages from others alluding to = errors on the website. Is it now correct? Thanks! Confused in Big Flats. Bill Bigler - 4915 Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C3D5EE.F529DCC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Would someone please sent me the new, updated dates = for this=20 years convention in Cincinnati?  I have so many messages with = dates, date=20 changes, messages correcting errors, etc, that I have no confidence = whatsoever=20 that I'm sure just what dates to plan for and make reservations = for.  I=20 also have numerous messages from others alluding to errors on the = website. =20 Is it now correct?
 
Thanks!
 
Confused in Big Flats.
 
Bill Bigler - 4915
Big Flats NY
Modeling PRR = Renovo=20 &
     Williamsport = WWII
------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C3D5EE.F529DCC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 14:05:37 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Cincinnati Convention Dates From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, January 8, 2004, at 01:54 PM, William Bigler wrote: > Would someone please sent me the new, updated dates for this years=20 > convention in Cincinnati?=A0 I have so many messages with dates, date=20= > changes, messages correcting errors, etc, that I have no confidence=20 > whatsoever that I'm sure just what dates to plan for and make=20 > reservations for.=A0 I also have numerous messages from others = alluding=20 > to errors on the website.=A0 Is it now correct? All the current dates for the next several conventions, including the=20 hotel info for 2004 (with URL), are available on the Timetable page of=20= Keystone Crossings at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/timetable.ws4d . ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 14:11:02 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 Mail Trains, From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, January 8, 2004, at 10:32 AM, Jerry Britton wrote: > On Thursday, January 8, 2004, at 09:23 AM, Andrew S. Miller wrote: > >>> A BM70m would be an excellent choice for some manufacturer to do in >>> RtR. It would be popular in both HO and N. It was also the class that >>> ran on the Broadway Limited. >> >> I believe that the BM70n was the more common car on the Broadway, but >> the >> BM70m was the more numerous and likely to be seen on all the other >> trains. > > In 1953 and 1954, it was definitely a BM70m that was specified for the > Broadway. I don't have the new TLC on hand at the moment, but my > recollection is -- and I specifically looked -- that in 1952 it was > also a BM70m. I can add that the 1943 Makeup of Trains specified BM70m for the Broadway as well. Have yet to find reference to BM70n in said service. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 Mail Trains, Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 14:37:27 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry and List, You can check the RPO issue of the Keystone written by Chuck. The BM70m was actually named the Robert E. Hannegan. Champ included this name as part of thier head-end equipment decals in HO. -John On Thursday, January 8, 2004, at 10:32 AM, Jerry Britton wrote: > On Thursday, January 8, 2004, at 09:23 AM, Andrew S. >Miller wrote: > >>> A BM70m would be an excellent choice for some >>>manufacturer to do in >>> RtR. It would be popular in both HO and N. It was also >>>the class that >>> ran on the Broadway Limited. >> >> I believe that the BM70n was the more common car on the >>Broadway, but >> the >> BM70m was the more numerous and likely to be seen on all >>the other >> trains. > > In 1953 and 1954, it was definitely a BM70m that was >specified for the > Broadway. I don't have the new TLC on hand at the moment, >but my > recollection is -- and I specifically looked -- that in >1952 it was > also a BM70m. I can add that the 1943 Makeup of Trains specified BM70m for the Broadway as well. Have yet to find reference to BM70n in said service. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 14:36:48 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] RPOs on the Broadway (was: T1 Mail Trains) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry, I don't think the "n"s were converted until after the war. I thought they were part of the 1948-49 re-equipping. So you wouldn't find any reference to them in 1943. I always assumed the BM70nb's were built specifically for the high speed service on the Broadway. That's why the 41-N trucks. This is all from the top of my head while at work. There is a whole Keystone issue on the subject of RPOs which might shed some more light on this topic. Regards, Andy Miller ======================================================= Jerry Britton wrote: > On Thursday, January 8, 2004, at 10:32 AM, Jerry Britton wrote: > > > On Thursday, January 8, 2004, at 09:23 AM, Andrew S. Miller wrote: > > > >>> A BM70m would be an excellent choice for some manufacturer to do in > >>> RtR. It would be popular in both HO and N. It was also the class that > >>> ran on the Broadway Limited. > >> > >> I believe that the BM70n was the more common car on the Broadway, but > >> the > >> BM70m was the more numerous and likely to be seen on all the other > >> trains. > > > > In 1953 and 1954, it was definitely a BM70m that was specified for the > > Broadway. I don't have the new TLC on hand at the moment, but my > > recollection is -- and I specifically looked -- that in 1952 it was > > also a BM70m. > > I can add that the 1943 Makeup of Trains specified BM70m for the > Broadway as well. Have yet to find reference to BM70n in said service. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mike Brown" Subject: [PRR] PRR in Kentucky Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 15:56:43 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I am going on a business trip to Covington Track work Plant in Taylor Mill, KY. next week...This is an old L&N shop where they repair rail cars and construct new track work.....I was wondering if there was any ex-PRR sites in the area...The plant is approximately 20-30 minutes from Cincininati... -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Listmaster Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 6:28 AM To: PRR-talk Subject: [PRR] TANGENT - Francis Treves Francis Treves, if you are out there, please contact me. ---------------------------------------- Listmaster listmaster@dsop.com Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Randy Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 15:25:32 -0600 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PennsyWest] Registration for 2005 Annual Meeting - I just made my reservations for the convention and the hotel was out of king size rooms for the convention rate. Randy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 15:25:32 -0600 From: Randy Subject: [PRR] Re: [PennsyWest] Registration for 2005 Annual Meeting - Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 15:30:00 -0600 From: Chuck Bowman Subject: [PRR] Vote From: "Jean Gagne" Subject: Re: [PRR] Passenger trains in 1960 Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 18:57:23 -0500 Yes it does. Thank you very much ! John ----- Original Message -----=20 From: SUVCWORR@aol.com=20 To: jean_gagne_555@hotmail.com ; prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Passenger trains in 1960 John, Hope this helps. From the October 29, 1961 Pittsburgh Region Time = Table No. 11=20 55, 61, 13, 25, 9, 33, 23, 31, 49, 29, 39, 37, 17, 3 (Harrisburg - = Pittsburgh) 48, 28, 30, 50, 32, 10, 16, 12, 24, 18, 22, 60, 4 (Pittsburgh - = Harrisburg) Rich Orr=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C3D619.403A60C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Yes it does. Thank you very much = !
 
John
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 SUVCWORR@aol.com=20
To: jean_gagne_555@hotmail.com ; prr-talk@dsop.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, = 2004 10:32=20 PM
Subject: Re: [PRR] Passenger = trains in=20 1960

John,

Hope this helps.  = >From the=20 October 29, 1961 Pittsburgh Region Time Table No. 11

55, 61, = 13, 25,=20 9, 33, 23, 31, 49, 29, 39, 37, 17, 3  (Harrisburg - = Pittsburgh)
48,=20 28, 30, 50, 32, 10, 16, 12, 24, 18, 22, 60, 4 (Pittsburgh -=20 Harrisburg)

Rich Orr ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C3D619.403A60C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 Mail Trains, Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 18:35:26 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew S. Miller" Other > candidates for a PRR mail train are the Bethlehem M70b and the Rivarossi > BM70n(?). Or the B74B and B70 horse-express and scenery-express cars. >If > a converted troop sleeper ever appears in HO (P2K?), you could use one from > the NH. I can't recall ever seeing a picture of a PRR mail train without a > NH mail storage car. The NH car was more common, but don't overlook the Burlington converted kitchen car in EW trains, as I have previously indicated. The recent article in Railmodel Journal gave some tips on the Sante Fe express boxcar. If you can find the old Ambroid/Gloor/QualityCraft MP 70 footer, it would have come up from St. Louis through Pittsburgh as well. I will include the Rivarossi MOP baggage-express as a standin for a more accurate car. Plus the Sunshine wood REA car if you can still find one (that is what I have, one). I have the Central Hobby Supply/Westshore REA car with brass sides of a converted troop sleeper as well. The latter two I have to build; the 1947 steel REA car from Sunshine is ready to go. I love passenger trains but I am infatuated with headend cars, as you can tell. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 18:01:31 -0700 From: "Dave Mittner" Subject: [PRR] And the Winner Is....... "Dashing Through the Snow" List, The vote casting for the "Name the Painting" contest was as varied = as the title suggestions themselves, but the of victory for "Dashing = Through The Snow" was a clear cut one. It received 23% of all the votes = cast. "Still On Time" was second with 15%. "Trail Blazer" and "Winter = Thunder" tied for third, each receiving 13% of the vote. Congratulations to Chuck Friedlein who came up with this title as = his one and only suggestion. I guess you can't improve on perfection. = He will receive the first signed print of this painting when they become = available. I couldn't be more pleased with the results. "Dashing Through The = Snow" suits this painting perfectly. As far as "Still On Time" = goes...well, I think I'll reserve this title for a future project. A = tribute painting to K4 #1361 maybe?....once she's under steam again? I want to thank everyone who participated in this contest and I hope = it was enjoyable for you as much as it was for me. Over the next week = or so, I want to personally contact those of you who had comments, = questions and suggestions in some of your postings. I have been = overwhelmed with the kind words. Maybe we'll do this again sometime. Thanks again, Dave David B Mittner PRRT&HS Member #6699 Dave's Railroad Art Gallery : = http://www.users.qwest.net/~mittner/davesart.html =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0110_01C3D611.7264E9B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
"Dashing Through the=20 Snow"
List,
 
    The vote casting for the "Name the = Painting"=20 contest was as varied as the title suggestions themselves, but the of = victory=20 for "Dashing Through The Snow" was a clear cut one.  It received = 23% of all=20 the votes cast.  "Still On Time" was second with 15%.  "Trail = Blazer"=20 and "Winter Thunder" tied for third, each receiving 13% of the = vote.
 
    Congratulations to Chuck Friedlein who came up = with this=20 title as his one and only suggestion.  I guess you can't = improve on=20 perfection.  He will receive the first signed print of this = painting when=20 they become available.
 
    I couldn't be more pleased with the = results. =20 "Dashing Through The Snow" suits this painting perfectly.  As far = as "Still=20 On Time" goes...well, I think I'll reserve this title for a future=20 project.  A tribute painting to K4 #1361 maybe?....once she's under = steam=20 again?
 
    I want to thank everyone who participated in = this=20 contest and I hope it was enjoyable for you as much as it was for = me.  Over=20 the next week or so, I want to personally contact those of you who had = comments,=20 questions and suggestions in some of your postings.  I have been=20 overwhelmed with the kind words.  Maybe we'll do this again = sometime.
 
 
Thanks again, Dave
 
David B Mittner
PRRT&HS  Member #6699
Dave's Railroad Art Gallery :  http://www.use= rs.qwest.net/~mittner/davesart.html =20    
 
 ------=_NextPart_000_0110_01C3D611.7264E9B0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 20:05:27 -0500 From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 Mail Trains Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: --- Gary Mittner wrote: > Info is now needed to share with all what exactly these T1's pulled in > the 1948-1949ish time period. "Hello. My name is Vagel Keller, and I'm coming out of the closet!" I tell everyone I'm a dedicated 1930's modeler. But I've secretly been collecting 1st Gen. Pennsy diseasals in my attic, and now I've just put down a deposit for the T1 that I fon ... , er, inspected at my hobby shop on Saturday. And funnily enough, I've had the same idea as Gary. I don't have any specific consists to share, but a review of my picture books found the following info to narrow the field in captions for photos of T1's a la BLI, = '47 - '52: Nelson, _Philip R. Hastings: Portrait of the Pennsylvania Railroad_ p. 69: From Hastings' notebook for Aug. 22, 1948: "shots at E. Liberty, 5500 Class T1, E #54, Gotham Ltd" Ball, _The Pennsylvania Railroad, 1940's =3F 1950's_ p. 106: Spring 1947: T1 heading W #33, St. Louisan, departing Harrisburg. Head-end: two X29's (first one with plate ends) and what looks like a B60 w/ clerestory followed by a "streamlined PB-70 and rest of = consist too far back to identify. p. 148: double-headed T1's with #95 W (Mail and Express) approaching the Curve. Five head-end cars visible: B60, B60b, possible horse car, two B60's. No dates given, but photo on opposite page taken same day, same location showed #13 W (Mail and Express) pulled by AP-20's in A-B-A lash-up = with ES-15 (running short-hood fwd!) helping, so 1952-53. The consist for #95 in the period the third photo was taken is going to be listed in Harry Stegmaier's book. BTW, when I asked Harry for his thoughts, he reminded me that T1's pulled the Derry-Pgh commuter trains for = a time just before before their demise. Now _there's_ a Christmas Tree trainset: A BLI T1 and three or four Bachmann P70s! I'm there! Hope this helps in the search, Vagel "my wife said 'OK' but _NO_ M's or J's!" Keller Pittsburgh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWilson823@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 20:13:53 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: BLI T1 Took mine to the club today. The sounds are incredible!! And seeing/hearing it charge out of a tunnel at speed.... There are no words. Only catch I had today was, as it slowly moved through the yard the lead truck derailed. Bad enough, but before I could get to it, the lead truck had caught fire. Seems the spring on the lead truck shorted on derail and lit the plastic truck on fire. (some realistic smoke / weathering) All damage is invisible but you better believe I will pay closer attention every time it makes an unscheduled stop! A great model of a great engine. Dorman Wilson Kalamazoo, MI PRRTHS 5535 (where are the decals? T1 5533 is only one digit off....) -------------------------------1073610833 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Took mine to the club today.
 
The sounds are incredible!!
 
And seeing/hearing it charge out of a tunnel at speed.... There are no=20= words.
 
Only catch I had today was, as it slowly moved through the yard the lea= d truck derailed.
 
Bad enough, but before I could get to it, the lead truck had=20= caught fire.
 
Seems the spring on the lead truck shorted on derail and lit the plasti= c  truck on fire. (some realistic smoke / weathering)
 
All damage is invisible but you better believe I will pay closer attent= ion every time it makes an unscheduled stop!
 
A great model of a great engine.
 
Dorman Wilson
Kalamazoo, MI
PRRTHS 5535
(where are the decals? T1 5533 is only one digit off....)
 
 
-------------------------------1073610833-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 20:25:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 Mail Trains MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Vagel, After my post last night I remembered those Derry T1 Runs. I have several photos of several T1s sitting with K4s's and G5s's on the ready tracks in Pgh. I have to see what dates are on those. I wanted to post that info this morning but forgot all about it. Yep, a T1 and 5-6 P70's or P54's would work nicely too. Did the T1 Commuter runs run west to Beaver Falls as well or were those handled by G5s and later RS3's only? My dad never mentioned about seeing a T1 being turned on the Homewood Jct Wye on the afternoon trip and overnight parking at the Beaver Falls Station sidings for the next mornings run back to Pgh. Only G5's. Those he used to climb in when he was a kid. The overnight hostler allowed him up in the train... Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chuck Friedlein" Subject: Re: [PRR] And the Winner Is....... Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 23:33:11 -0500 Dave and the List, Please accept my humble thanks to all who voted for "Dashing Through = the Snow" as the winning title for Dave's outstanding T1 painting. Even more so, thanks to Dave; first for having created such a = beautiful work of railroad art, and second for allowing us to share in = the fun of naming it. The signed print will have a place of honor in our home. Many thanks! Chuck Friedlein ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dave Mittner To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 8:01 PM Subject: [PRR] And the Winner Is....... "Dashing Through the Snow" List, The vote casting for the "Name the Painting" contest was as = varied as the title suggestions themselves, but the of victory for = "Dashing Through The Snow" was a clear cut one. It received 23% of all = the votes cast. "Still On Time" was second with 15%. "Trail Blazer" = and "Winter Thunder" tied for third, each receiving 13% of the vote. Congratulations to Chuck Friedlein who came up with this title = as his one and only suggestion. I guess you can't improve on = perfection. He will receive the first signed print of this painting = when they become available. I couldn't be more pleased with the results. "Dashing Through = The Snow" suits this painting perfectly. As far as "Still On Time" = goes...well, I think I'll reserve this title for a future project. A = tribute painting to K4 #1361 maybe?....once she's under steam again? I want to thank everyone who participated in this contest and I = hope it was enjoyable for you as much as it was for me. Over the next = week or so, I want to personally contact those of you who had comments, = questions and suggestions in some of your postings. I have been = overwhelmed with the kind words. Maybe we'll do this again sometime. Thanks again, Dave David B Mittner PRRT&HS Member #6699 Dave's Railroad Art Gallery : = http://www.users.qwest.net/~mittner/davesart.html =20 ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01C3D63F.C77197E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dave and the List,
 
Please accept my humble thanks to all who voted = for "Dashing=20 Through the Snow" as the winning title for Dave's outstanding T1=20 painting.
 
Even more so, thanks to Dave; first for = having created=20 such a beautiful work of railroad art, and second for allowing us = to=20 share in the fun of naming it.
 
The signed print will have a place of honor in our = home.  Many thanks!
 
Chuck Friedlein
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Dave Mittner
Sent: Thursday, January 08, = 2004 8:01=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] And the Winner = Is.......

"Dashing Through = the=20 Snow"
List,
 
    The vote casting for the "Name the = Painting" contest was as varied as the title suggestions themselves, = but the=20 of victory for "Dashing Through The Snow" was a clear cut one.  = It=20 received 23% of all the votes cast.  "Still On Time" was second = with=20 15%.  "Trail Blazer" and "Winter Thunder" tied for third, each=20 receiving 13% of the vote.
 
    Congratulations to Chuck Friedlein who came = up with=20 this title as his one and only suggestion.  I guess you = can't=20 improve on perfection.  He will receive the first signed print = of this=20 painting when they become available.
 
    I couldn't be more pleased with the = results. =20 "Dashing Through The Snow" suits this painting perfectly.  As = far as=20 "Still On Time" goes...well, I think I'll reserve this title for a = future=20 project.  A tribute painting to K4 #1361 maybe?....once she's = under=20 steam again?
 
    I want to thank everyone who participated in = this=20 contest and I hope it was enjoyable for you as much as it was for = me. =20 Over the next week or so, I want to personally contact those of you = who had=20 comments, questions and suggestions in some of your postings.  = I have=20 been overwhelmed with the kind words.  Maybe we'll do this = again=20 sometime.
 
 
Thanks again, Dave
 
David B Mittner
PRRT&HS  Member #6699
Dave's Railroad Art Gallery :  http://www.use= rs.qwest.net/~mittner/davesart.html =20    
 

------=_NextPart_000_005D_01C3D63F.C77197E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] BLI T1 Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 00:32:48 -0600 As a followup to my previous post, part two being "Reading Directions", = I left the impression I couldn't change the system volume of this loco = without removing the tender shell. That is not true, as even a cursory = read of the directions would have told me. For analog users, apparently = one can remove a water hatch to screwdriver adjust the system volume. In = DCC, I can program the system volume by software on the main or on the = programming track. Duh. Bob Zoeller ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C3D648.1B933F10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
As a followup to my previous post, part = two being=20 "Reading Directions", I left the impression I couldn't change the system = volume=20 of this loco without removing the tender shell.  That is not true, = as even=20 a cursory read of the directions would have told me.  For analog = users,=20 apparently one can remove a water hatch to screwdriver adjust the system = volume.=20 In DCC, I can program the system volume  by software on the main or = on the=20 programming track.  Duh.
 
Bob = Zoeller 
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C3D648.1B933F10-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 13:15:23 GMT Subject: [PRR] Head End Cars From: Dominic Mazoch From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: RE: [PRR] Head End Cars Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 13:49:30 +0000 >From: Dominic Mazoch >Subject: [PRR] Head End Cars >Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 13:15:23 GMT From: Andrisd@aol.com Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:00:06 EST Subject: RE: [PRR] Head End Cars On the subject of foriegn roads, how about the private owner (dairy) express reefers? Would thay have been included in the consists? Thanks Andy Cole -------------------------------1073656806 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
On the subject of foriegn roads, how about the pri= vate owner (dairy) express reefers?  Would thay have been included in t= he consists?
 
Thanks   Andy Cole
-------------------------------1073656806-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] A surprise on January 18, 1965 Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 14:09:37 +0000 Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 09:16:31 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Head End Cars Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Ted, The PRR was too big to have just one system-wide answer. Photo evidence seems to suggest a strong regionality. It was highly dependent on the roads with direct passenger interchange. In the east, NH was very common. On the corridor, the various southern connections (ACL, SEAB, SOU, C&O) were also common. Out west, I suspect that lines like CB&Q, MoPac, and Santa Fe dominated. In my own fleet I have a NH converted troop sleeper, baggage cars from Southern and ACL, an ACL baggage-RPO combine and a Seaboard express box car. Regards, Andrew S. Miller ======================================================= Ted Andrews wrote: > In terms of road names, what were the most common on PRR east-west trains? > > Ted > > >From: Dominic Mazoch > >To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > >Subject: [PRR] Head End Cars > >Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 13:15:23 GMT > > > > > >The nice thing about Head End Cars is that you can model ONE car from > >another road, and have it on your train, and it would be "correct". > >Example: I like the GN Empire Builder green and orange, but can't aford > >the whole train. But, I can have a GN express car in a PRR mail train or > >as a head end car, and it would be "correct". > > > > > >Dominic Mazoch ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 11:20:06 EST Subject: [PRR] Some Cincinnati sites In a message dated 1/9/04 1:12:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: PRR in Kentucky > From: "Mike Brown" > Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 15:56:43 -0500 > > I am going on a business trip to Covington Track work Plant in Taylor > Mill, KY. next week...This is an old L&N shop where they repair rail > cars and construct new track work.....I was wondering if there was any > ex-PRR sites in the area...The plant is approximately 20-30 minutes from > Cincininati... Most PRR sites in Cincinnati are tough to find and the structures have been razed by now. Best bet is to go to Cincinnati Union Terminal, explore it, and find out when Tower A atop it is open. Much more work is to find East Norwood, where the B&O main and a PRR branch crossed. Work your way east along the north side of the B&O, and you may uncover PRR's little-known Norwood suburban station, now home of a fraternal organization. Then just west of the station there is a wye and three bridges that should still have PRR markings. Esoteric, but still there, is the ancient wood station at Milford, an eastern suburb of Cincinnati. The town is on the east side of the Little Miami River, but the railroad (now a bike path) is on the west side. Also, if you're a modeler, try to catch Davis Electronics open -- all scales and heavily stocked. BTW, there's an excellent chance the shop you're going to is the remnants of L&N's 1963 car repair facility at DeCoursey Yard. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY --part1_182.2545254d.2d302eb6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a messa= ge dated 1/9/04 1:12:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:<= BR>

Subject: PRR in Kentucky
From: "Mike Brown" <RRMan620@comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 15:56:43 -0500

I am going on a business trip to Covington Track work Plant in Taylor
Mill, KY. next week...This is an old L&N shop where they repair rail
cars and construct new track work.....I was wondering if there was any
ex-PRR sites in the area...The plant is approximately 20-30 minutes from
Cincininati...


Most PRR sites in Cincinnati are tough to find and the structures have been=20= razed by now.  Best bet is to go to Cincinnati Union Terminal, explore=20= it, and find out when Tower A atop it is open.

Much more work is to find East Norwood, where the B&O main and a PRR bra= nch crossed.  Work your way east along the north side of the B&O, a= nd you may uncover PRR's little-known Norwood suburban station, now home of=20= a fraternal organization.  Then just west of the station there is a wye= and three bridges that should still have PRR markings.

Esoteric, but still there, is the ancient wood station at Milford, an easter= n suburb of Cincinnati.  The town is on the east side of the Little Mia= mi River, but the railroad (now a bike path) is on the west side.  Also= , if you're a modeler, try to catch Davis Electronics open -- all scales and= heavily stocked.

BTW, there's an excellent chance the shop you're going to is the remnants of= L&N's 1963 car repair facility at DeCoursey Yard.

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
 --part1_182.2545254d.2d302eb6_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Cincinatti sightings Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 16:43:08 +0000 From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] H21a "Coal Goes To War" Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:02:04 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, Does anyone have proof that the "Coal Goes To War" logo was ever applied to the PRR H21a? I have never seen it. Please reply ASAP, as I am finishing up a bunch of O scale cars today. Only 4 more to go out of 30 in 1 week! Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:02:04 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] H21a "Coal Goes To War" Hi All, Does anyone have proof that the "Coal Goes To War" logo was ever applied to the PRR H21a? I have never seen it. Please reply ASAP, as I am finishing up a bunch of O scale cars today. Only 4 more to go out of 30 in 1 week! Thanks Bill "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 21:53:28 GMT Subject: RE: [PRR] Head End Cars From: Dominic Mazoch From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Head End Cars Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:51:39 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Don't overlook PFE express reefers. Seems to me I have also seen MOP and ATSF cars on the Ft. Wayne line but I'm not sure where I'd start to dig for those photos or videos. I also don't know how many milk cars made it how far East from Chicago and the mix of R50bs and other roads or private owners. I know some were listed with destinations as far as Philly from Chicago in consist books. BTW, as we all know, it works both ways with the X29 REA cars and B60s roaming the country. I had a nice calendar shot last year of a B60 in LaSalle St. station (NYC-RI-NKP) express yards in Chicago. I am looking for an excuse to add one of the new resin Harriman headend cars to my box of things to do. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dominic Mazoch" To: ; Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 3:53 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] Head End Cars > > The following are a guess: > > Via St. Louis: MoPac Lines, ATSF, MKT. > > Via Chicago: The "Q", GN, NP ("Hill Lines"), Milw, Overland Route (CNW, UP LInes, SP) > > Either: Any cars with REA reporting marks. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: [PRR] ex PRR H&M cars as reef & request for car info.. Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 18:01:09 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi all, I got this request for info via my website. Interesting end for an ex PRR H&M car. Can anyone help Jennifer out? You can respond to me and I'll forward anything on to her... The photos she sent are on my website @ http://prr.railfan.net/photos/PathCarsForReef_JD.pdf Rob Dear Mr. Schoenberg, I’ m writing in regards to subway cars that we sank on an ocean reef in 1990. This was done by the Department of Environmental Protection as part of the State’s ocean reef program. The cars in question were part of the K-car fleet (the "TUBES") built by St. Louis Car Company in 1958. The serial numbers of the cars deployed are 1233W, 1202W and 1290W. They were sold by PATH to SEPTA for spare parts. Origionaly the car 1202W was owned by Pennsylvania Railroad and 1202W owned by H&M. We also sank 250 New York subway cars in 2003. We are doing a comparative study to see how long each type of car lasts in seawater. The dimensions we have are the actual size and weight of each car: 51x9x12’ weighing 69,300 lbs. If you can, please provide the following information for these cars used: Thickness or gauge of sheet metal of the inside walls? Thickness of the end caps? Was asbestos sprayed on the inside walls? Was asbestos present in any form in those cars? The form of asbestos used? Please provide details. If you can not help me, but know of someone who may be of help, please provide the name and his or her email and/or phone number. Thank you for your time, Jennifer Daetsch NJ Div. of Fish & Wildlife ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 20:56:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] BLI T1's MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, Well, like many in the past few days I am sure, I received my BLI T1 today. Here is my review. WOW! No, seriously, no review from me on this one. Be sure to catch Bruce Smiths writeup in an upcoming issue of a TKM. But I would like to say a few words if I may. I just got off the phone from another PRR fan that received his BLI T1 today as well. He has higher detail standards than I and he has a friend, who received one several days ago that has higher standards then he, and everyone seems happy with this model. The bottom line, this T1 is VERY GOOD! It may not compare with the $1500.00 Brass Imports detail wise but pretty much everything is done rather well. A nice little touch is the working coupler on the pilot for double heading. A good reason to look into purchasing a second T1! Although we didn't go over the model with a fine tooth comb, yet, we did comment on several items. First, the tender does have the visible Steam Lines on the lower edge. Something we thought may have been done rather late on a T1. Photo evidence shows this being done as early as 1948, possibly earlier. So now we are looking at a T1 that represents mid 1947 (due to the cut down tender, but need to check photos of specific T1 numbers 5517 5528 and 5533) to scrap line era. That's a nice reasonable modeling span. Other things like the Trust Plates, Tender Plates, Builders Plates and Keystone Plates are done very nicely. However, this is where we found the only booboo so far. The culprit......The Builders Plate. The T1's that both I and my Phone call contact have is T1 #5528. T1's 5500-5524 were Altoona built Locos and 5525-5549 were Baldwin Built. Our T1 5528 has a builders plate inscribed for Altoona Works ;>( But the build date and construction number match the 5528 records. A little oversite by BLI I guess. BLI's other T1's #5517 most likely has the correct builders plate info for Altoona and we assume 5533 has the incorrect builder inscribed as well. Oh well, these plates are hard to read but it may naw at some. Another little oversite was the lack of oxide on the back of the slopesheet. Other details we need to do more research on to see what was correct is the window trim. DGLE or that odd yellow/orange as seen on J's? How about that appliance between the 2 air tanks on the tender deck. Oxide or DGLE, either? Those are our observations after having the model in our hands for less than 5 hours. For those who are wanting one but are hesitating, don't hesitate too long. These are that good. BLI has come a long way, mechanically, since the NYC J1e release. Can't wait for M1b and especially the Mighty J's. This really wasn't a review now was it?......Thanks, Gary. Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI T1's Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 21:36:42 -0500 From: "Jerry Breon" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI T1's Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 21:51:05 -0500 Eric, It is possible that the two center (blind) drivers may have briefly = dropped off the rail on your 36" radius curve and contacted the side of = the rail, thus causing the bind. I operated my T1 tonight for the first = time and noted that even on my 42" radius trackage the blind drivers = were only contacting about 1/2 of the width of the rail head. I'm not = sure I'll even try to fit the replacement flanged drivers included with = the model. =20 Jerry Breon Birdsboro, PA ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Eric Lauterbach=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 9:36 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI T1's I got my T1 today. It may very well be the best plastic HO scale steam engine produced up to this point, except for maybe the Bachmann Shay. = I did have a weird experience with it when I first tried to operate her. She stalled on my 36 inch curves, which surprised me because my Sunset T1 = does fine on them. This happen about three time, so I just ran her on the straight for a little while. After about 15 minutes of playing with = the sound and watching her go back and forth on a four foot straight = section, I tried the curve again and she did just fine. I can't explain why this happen, I just hope that I am not hurting the engine by having her run = on 36 inch curves. Eric Lauterbach ------=_NextPart_000_0489_01C3D6FA.AE892F20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Eric,
 
It is possible that the two center (blind) drivers may have briefly = dropped=20 off the rail on your 36" radius curve and contacted the side of the = rail, thus=20 causing the bind. I operated my T1 tonight for the first time and noted = that=20 even on my 42" radius trackage the blind drivers were only contacting = about 1/2=20 of the width of the rail head. I'm not sure I'll even try to fit the = replacement=20 flanged drivers included with the model.  
 
Jerry Breon
Birdsboro, PA
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Lauterbach
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 = 9:36=20 PM
Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI = T1's

I got my T1 today. It may very well be the best plastic = HO=20 scale steam
engine produced up to this point, except for maybe the = Bachmann=20 Shay. I did
have a weird experience with it when I first tried to = operate=20 her. She
stalled on my 36 inch curves, which surprised me because = my Sunset=20 T1 does
fine on them. This happen about three time, so I just ran = her on=20 the
straight for a little while. After about 15 minutes of playing = with=20 the
sound and watching her go back and forth on a four foot = straight=20 section, I
tried the curve again and she did just fine. I can't = explain why=20 this
happen, I just hope that I am not hurting the engine by having = her run=20 on
36 inch curves.
Eric = Lauterbach
------=_NextPart_000_0489_01C3D6FA.AE892F20-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 21:53:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI T1's MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, I forgot to ask a question during my last post. This goes out to any dealers here.. Jerry, Dennis, whomever. BLI list a 4th T1 as an unlettered version. What does this mean. No Number, No Keystone, No Stripes, No Plates. No Pennsylvania on the Tender, no what? What they should have offered if this was the case was just an unnumbered version complete with all details above. Can someone clearify? Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ron Widman" Subject: Re: [PRR] Some Cincinnati sites and Crestline, Ohio. Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 22:12:29 -0500 Guys,=20 While in Ohio, on your way to the annual meeting or just traveling = around, don't forget to check out the PRR Crestline roundhouse on the = Fort Wayne line in Crestline.=20 Crestline is between Cleveland and Columbus and west of I-71 about 15 = miles on Route #30. Between Mansfield and Bucyrus. The brick tower is still standing in Crestline also, just south of = downtown. (Former Big 4 tower, but we won't hold that against them.) Ron, Columbus. =20 See the web site @ =20 http://crestline.pennsyrr.com =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RickTipton@aol.com=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com ; RRMan620@comcast.net=20 Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 11:20 AM Subject: [PRR] Some Cincinnati sites In a message dated 1/9/04 1:12:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, = PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: Subject: PRR in Kentucky From: "Mike Brown" Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 15:56:43 -0500 I am going on a business trip to Covington Track work Plant in = Taylor Mill, KY. next week...This is an old L&N shop where they repair rail cars and construct new track work.....I was wondering if there was = any ex-PRR sites in the area...The plant is approximately 20-30 minutes = from Cincininati... Most PRR sites in Cincinnati are tough to find and the structures have = been razed by now. Best bet is to go to Cincinnati Union Terminal, = explore it, and find out when Tower A atop it is open. Much more work is to find East Norwood, where the B&O main and a PRR = branch crossed. Work your way east along the north side of the B&O, and = you may uncover PRR's little-known Norwood suburban station, now home of = a fraternal organization. Then just west of the station there is a wye = and three bridges that should still have PRR markings. Esoteric, but still there, is the ancient wood station at Milford, an = eastern suburb of Cincinnati. The town is on the east side of the = Little Miami River, but the railroad (now a bike path) is on the west = side. Also, if you're a modeler, try to catch Davis Electronics open -- = all scales and heavily stocked. BTW, there's an excellent chance the shop you're going to is the = remnants of L&N's 1963 car repair facility at DeCoursey Yard. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C3D6FD.ABCA7CF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Guys,
 
While in Ohio, on your way to the annual meeting or just traveling = around,=20 don't forget to check out the PRR Crestline roundhouse on the Fort Wayne = line in=20 Crestline.
Crestline is between Cleveland and Columbus and west of I-71 about = 15 miles=20 on Route #30. Between Mansfield and Bucyrus.
The brick tower is still standing in Crestline also, just south of=20 downtown. (Former Big 4 tower, but we won't hold that against = them.)
 
Ron, Columbus.  
 
See the web site @  
 
http://crestline.pennsyrr.com &= nbsp;   =20
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 RickTipton@aol.com
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com ; RRMan620@comcast.net
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 = 11:20=20 AM
Subject: [PRR] Some Cincinnati=20 sites

In a message dated 1/9/04 1:12:21 = AM Eastern=20 Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 writes:


Subject: PRR in Kentucky
From: "Mike Brown" <RRMan620@comcast.net>
Date= :=20 Thu, 8 Jan 2004 15:56:43 -0500

I am going on a business trip = to=20 Covington Track work Plant in Taylor
Mill, KY. next week...This = is an old=20 L&N shop where they repair rail
cars and construct new track=20 work.....I was wondering if there was any
ex-PRR sites in the = area...The=20 plant is approximately 20-30 minutes=20 from
Cincininati...

Most PRR sites in = Cincinnati are=20 tough to find and the structures have been razed by now.  Best = bet is to=20 go to Cincinnati Union Terminal, explore it, and find out when Tower A = atop it=20 is open.

Much more work is to find East Norwood, where the = B&O main=20 and a PRR branch crossed.  Work your way east along the north = side of the=20 B&O, and you may uncover PRR's little-known Norwood suburban = station, now=20 home of a fraternal organization.  Then just west of the station = there is=20 a wye and three bridges that should still have PRR = markings.

Esoteric,=20 but still there, is the ancient wood station at Milford, an eastern = suburb of=20 Cincinnati.  The town is on the east side of the Little Miami = River, but=20 the railroad (now a bike path) is on the west side.  Also, if = you're a=20 modeler, try to catch Davis Electronics open -- all scales and heavily = stocked.

BTW, there's an excellent chance the shop you're going = to is=20 the remnants of L&N's 1963 car repair facility at DeCoursey=20 Yard.

Rick Tipton - Louisville=20 KY
 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C3D6FD.ABCA7CF0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI T1's Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 23:56:10 -0500 Gary and the List: I have one. I just got it from Jerry today. It is like the numbered = ones......it has everything except for the numbers (on the cab sides, = keystone, and tender back). The paint, striping, and builders plates are = all there, just no numbers. However, BLI does not include a decal sheet to letter the engine. I hope = the Micro Scale decals match! Ted Andrews P.S.: I concur with your review..........WOW!!! ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gary Mittner=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 9:53 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI T1's List, I forgot to ask a question during my last post. This goes out to = any dealers here.. Jerry, Dennis, whomever. BLI list a 4th T1 as an unlettered version. What does this mean. No Number, No Keystone, No Stripes, No Plates. No Pennsylvania on the Tender, no what? What = they should have offered if this was the case was just an unnumbered = version complete with all details above. Can someone clearify? Thanks, Gary=20 Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_000_03F1_01C3D70C.281BDD40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Gary and the List:
 
I have one. I just got it from Jerry today. It is like the numbered = ones......it has everything except for the numbers (on the cab sides, = keystone,=20 and tender back). The paint, striping, and builders plates are all = there, just=20 no numbers.
However, BLI does not include a decal sheet to letter the engine. I = hope=20 the Micro Scale decals match!
 
Ted Andrews
 
P.S.: I concur with your review..........WOW!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Mittner
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 = 9:53=20 PM
Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI = T1's

List,

   I forgot to ask a question = during my=20 last post. This goes out to any
dealers here.. Jerry, Dennis,=20 whomever.   BLI list a 4th  T1 as an
unlettered = version.=20 What does this mean. No Number, No Keystone, No
Stripes, No = Plates. =20 No Pennsylvania on the Tender, no what?  What they
should have = offered=20 if this was the case was just an unnumbered version
complete with = all=20 details above. Can someone clearify? Thanks, Gary =





Come=20 visit my PRR Pages:  Photos, Models, Historical Items and =20 Art
Work!

PRR K4s Loco Pics:
http://www.angelfire.com/= film/prrpics/

PRR=20 G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.:

http:/= /www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html

and......<= BR>
PRR=20 Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models:

http://www.= angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html


----------------= -------------------------------------------------------
For=20 assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.
------=_NextPart_000_03F1_01C3D70C.281BDD40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "David R. Campbell" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI T1's Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 00:11:30 -0500 Some of you have mentioned that you are having problems with the T-1 = running on curves less than approximately 40" with the flanged drivers = on the first and fourth positions. Would it be possible to move the = rear flanged driver to the third position reducing the center to center = distance of the flanged sets and possibly allowing the loco to negotiate = smaller radius curves? This may be impossible to do or may cause = another problem... what do you think? David Campbell Norton, VA=20 ------=_NextPart_000_00F7_01C3D70E.4C1319A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Some of you have mentioned that = you are=20 having problems with the T-1 running on curves less than approximately = 40" with=20 the flanged drivers on the first and fourth positions.  Would it be = possible to move the rear flanged driver to the third position = reducing the=20 center to center distance of the flanged sets and possibly allowing the = loco to=20 negotiate smaller radius curves?  This may be impossible to do = or may=20 cause another problem... what do you think?
 
David Campbell
Norton, VA 
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_00F7_01C3D70E.4C1319A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 02:26:00 -0500 From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." Subject: [PRR] BLI T1 System Volume Programming in DC Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: --On Friday, January 9, 2004 22:16 -0500 PRR-Talk wrote: Bob Zoeller wrote: > As a followup to my previous post, part two being "Reading Directions", > I left the impression I couldn't change the system volume of this loco > without removing the tender shell. That is not true, as even a cursory > read of the directions would have told me. For analog users, apparently > one can remove a water hatch to screwdriver adjust the system volume. Actually, you can program several functions of this beauty in straight DC from your basic powerpack by creative use of the direction switch according to the printed abridged ref. manual supplied with the loco. Within 5 seconds of applying sufficient voltage (approx. 45%) to activate the sound, quickly toggle the direction switch back and forth to get the bell sound. Then w/in 3 seconds do it again ... another bell sound ... w/in another 3 seconds do it yet again ... bell sound then a little guy's voice says "programming" or words to that effect. You're automatically in the volume program mode and you can adjust the volume down step by step from default level 15 of max. 16 by switching the direction switch to reverse and back again ... each time you get that little guy saying 'level 14,' 'level 13,' and so on. I find level 12 to be a good level with no distortion and sufficient to just let her sit there simmering, air compressors chanting every couple minutes, injectors coming on and going off, while I take a nap. What a GREAT lunch break! Vagel Keller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Frank Brua" Subject: [PRR] More On BLI T1's Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 07:55:24 -0500 The BLI #019 uncorated T1 should have actually been marketed as painted = and lettered with no number. A big mistake on their part IMHO. Can anyone tell me the last year the T1's would have seen mainline = service on mail trains or snapper service or whatever? Thanks. Frank Brua ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01C3D74F.1A58EED0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
The BLI  #019 uncorated T1 should = have=20 actually been marketed as painted and lettered with no number.  A = big=20 mistake on their part IMHO.
 
Can anyone tell me the last year the = T1's would=20 have seen mainline service on mail trains or snapper service or = whatever? =20 Thanks.
 
Frank Brua
------=_NextPart_000_005B_01C3D74F.1A58EED0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harry Fitch" Subject: [PRR] BLI T1 advertised spec vs. actual performance Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 12:23:23 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Return-Path: prrk4s@msn.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2004 17:23:24.0854 (UTC) FILETIME=[74105D60:01C3D79E] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: To the list at large, Those folks with practical experience with the BLI PRR T1 model have been posting things concerning negotiation concerns with curvature and the use of blind drivers. Below is a quote from the BLI web site. How does this match against the actual measured performance of the production model. (it is a given that this model will look much better on wide sweeping curves, hwf) "The models will be able to negotiate 22” radius curves and pull a long string of cars, as their prototypes did. " BLI Post what you have learned. Regards, Harry prrk4s@msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Rea" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI T1 advertised spec vs. actual performance Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 16:26:38 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I have been very happy with the performance of my BLI T1. Foremost, its pulling power is comparable to my two can motor Bowser T1. On a friends Santa Fe layout it pulled a 9 car train up and over Raton Pass. That is 30" radius and 3.4%. It slipped a bit near the top. The train was a Walthers El Capitan (RPO, Baggage, 6 coaches and a diner). It probably did better than the prototype would. I have a 30" minimum radius but mostly 36" and I have no plans to switch the drivers. It is not he curves. It is my #6 turnouts. It is clear, when you watch the blind drivers, flanges won't work. It tracks very well, very very few derailments. All of those attributable to my track work. I would love it, even if it did not have sound. It is ideal for the mail train on my 36/38" radius double track line with 2.5% max grade. The Bowser will serve as protection and grace my engine yard for a while. I can't wait for my M1 and J1. Fred Rea ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Fitch" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 12:23 PM Subject: [PRR] BLI T1 advertised spec vs. actual performance > > To the list at large, > > > Those folks with practical experience with the BLI PRR T1 model have been > posting things concerning negotiation concerns with curvature and the use of > blind drivers. Below is a quote from the BLI web site. How does this match > against the actual measured performance of the production model. (it is a > given that this model will look much better on wide sweeping curves, hwf) > > "The models will be able to negotiate 22" radius curves and pull a long > string of cars, as their prototypes did. " BLI > > Post what you have learned. > > Regards, > > Harry > > prrk4s@msn.com > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 17:15:18 -0600 From: gpierson@trnty.edu Subject: [PRR] BLI T1 on curves User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.0 Return-Path: gpierson@trnty.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2004 23:09:18.0147 (UTC) FILETIME=[C5FD9130:01C3D7CE] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi, All, Just put my T1 on the rails yesterday and here's what it did. It took 22" curves just fine, including (I think) squeeling flang noise! I had nine full- sized passenger cars behind - two of the new Walthers FOM cars, five Rivarossi HW Pullmans, and two Athearn HW baggage cars. It pulled this train just fine on the straights and handled c. 2% grades fine. Where there were curves on a grade, the sharper the curve the slower the train (but all traims do this) but it would still do fine if operating around a scale 40 MPH. At slower speeds it would sometimes stall, also on a curve where I have superelevated the track. The SE looks cool but the engine stalled at slower speeds. A bit more throttle and it was OK. The only reason it stalled was because on the sharper curves the # 2 and 3 blind drivers were far enough off the the rail to temporarily reduce the engine to a 4-2-2-4. BTW I'm operating it on analogue DC. But I am over-all VERY pleased with the model. Once I make some adjustments to the sound levels, it will be even better. I would have prefered slightly less green in the DGLE paint, but it is much better than the GG1. The sound, even with an analogue system, is really cool! I for one am a pleased customer - now how am I going to explain a T1 running on my 1920-era PRR layout??? George Pierson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 20:36:53 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI T1 on curves X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-7,9-18 From: Michael E Allen Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Use the excuse I do for similar anomalies in the time-space continuum - The PRR's Research and Testing people discovered a worm hole somewhere between Altoona and Pittsburgh. Mike Allen On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 17:15:18 -0600 gpierson@trnty.edu writes: > Hi, All, >>>>> snpped <<<<< > ... (N)ow how am I going to explain a T1 running on my 1920-era PRR layout??? > > George Pierson > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Rea" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI T1 on curves Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 21:39:30 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: A special visit by a "Train of tomorrow" concept demostration. Fred Rea ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 6:15 PM Subject: [PRR] BLI T1 on curves > ..................I for one am a pleased customer - now how am I going to explain a T1 running > on my 1920-era PRR layout??? > > George Pierson > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 01:42:18 -0500 From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." Subject: [PRR] Re: T1 Time Warp (was: BLI T1 on curves) Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: --On Sunday, January 11, 2004 gpierson@trnty.edu wrote: > I for one am a pleased customer - now how am I going to explain a T1 > running on my 1920-era PRR layout??? George (and, by extension, the List), "Rubber Era's, my friend, Rubber Eras." The ca. 1938 Blacklog & Shade Gap Eastern/Pennsy So. Penn Branch has just done the time-warp thing, too! It'll make a nice transition to those re-geared Genesis EH15's, those P2K AF16's, and those P1K FF16's -- sitting silently :( -- on the shelf. For the time being (FTTB), I've rigged up a DC throttle to the display shelf in my attic study. T1 5528 is, as I type, simmering in the background. Can you say, "therapy"? Here's a problem I DON'T have, George: justify a completely unnecessary fuel stop at Denholm! Heh, heh. To paraphrase Mel Brooks, "It's good to be a Pennsy modeler!" But it's better to be the credit card company of a Pennsy modeler. Vagel Keller Pittsburgh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 02:02:41 -0800 (PST) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: [PRR] PRR 498133 communication and signal instruction From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] BLI T1 Wow! Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 07:19:55 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Guys, As many of you know, I have been in S Scale for about 15 years know. In that time I have never once considered returning to HO. It has also been a very rare occasion that I saw a new product in HO that impressed me, until yesterday. I saw the new BLI T1 for the first time. It made me say WOW out loud, and even had a BRIEF flash of envy. You guys just better STOP any complaints you have. It is an amazing piece. So it won't go around a tight radius. Neither will the passenger cars it is supposed to be pulling. If my scan of the thousands of posts about it is correct, BLI did not articulate it. That is just as God and the mighty PRR intended it to be! The only way I will buy one though is if someone can provide me conclusive proof that it will grow 33% if I soak it in water. (:->) Thanks, Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Athearn Has Been Acquired/Hobby Shop survival Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 08:14:42 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, I know that there are at least a few train show dealers and some hobby shop owners on the lists. The following is not a shot at anyone. However, with the ever-changing modes of business, I sincerely hope that having a well-stocked local train store or hobby shop OPEN for business is NOT going the way of the Dinosaur, LeCar and sealing wax. I needed to get LOTS of Testors Dullcoat to finish the hopper cars by today. If my local hobby shop were but a faint memory, it would not have been possible to order something and get it in time. When I was at this well-known South Jersey hobby shop yesterday, I mentioned the sale of Athearn to the owner. He replied that it is rare today to find a company that is looking out for the independent hobby shop owner. I have to agree. Another well-known S J Hobby shop, Ted's Engine House is going out of business after 35 years. That leaves a precious few in my area. I know that are some of you who have none in your area. We all like to try and save money on our trains and supplies. But it is the Hobby Shops that is there for us when we need something, promote the hobby and new products in a see it and touch it setting. It is also a means of support for it's owners and employees. Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] DCC (Bus - Feeder) quesiton Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:21:19 -0500 PRR Gize: I am just about to start installing DCC system on my layout. The = 14-gauge bus lines have already been strung out under the main line and = I am ready to connect the feeders from the bus to the track. I have a = few questions:=20 1.. Someone recommended that I install terminal strips on each feeder = lead. The track feeder could quickly be disconnected while trouble = shooting. Has anyone tried this? Is it a good idea to do? Sounds good to = me.=20 2.. If terminal strips are the way to go, where would be the best = place to get them? I would think that buying them individually from = Radio Shack could be pricey. Is there a good place that one can get them = in bulk?=20 3.. Can terminal strips be used to simply connects between the bus and = the track? For example, one set of feeders can be used to connect the = bus with the terminal strip. Then jumper wires could be used at the = terminal strip to feed the 2nd mainline track or passing sidings? Would = this work or could it reduce the effectiveness of the DCC? The following is given for the above questions: Bus wires are 14 gauge, = feeders are 22 gauge, the typical length of feeder (from bus to track) = is approximately 1 foot.=20 Any information that you can provide me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!! Ted Andrews ------=_NextPart_000_0360_01C3D84E.2E7564C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
PRR Gize:
 
I am just about to start installing DCC system on my layout. The = 14-gauge=20 bus lines have already been strung out under the main line and I am = ready to=20 connect the feeders from the bus to the track. I have a few questions: =
 
  1. Someone recommended that I install terminal strips on each feeder = lead.=20 The track feeder could quickly be disconnected while trouble shooting. = Has=20 anyone tried this? Is it a good idea to do? Sounds good to me.=20
  2. If terminal strips are the way to go, where would be the best = place to get=20 them? I would think that buying them individually from Radio Shack = could be=20 pricey. Is there a good place that one can get them in bulk?=20
  3. Can terminal strips be used to simply connects between the bus and = the=20 track? For example, one set of feeders can be used to connect the bus = with the=20 terminal strip. Then jumper wires could be used at the terminal strip = to feed=20 the 2nd mainline track or passing sidings? Would this work or could it = reduce=20 the effectiveness of the DCC?
The following is given for the above questions: Bus wires are 14 = gauge,=20 feeders are 22 gauge, the typical length of feeder (from bus to track) = is=20 approximately 1 foot.
 
Any information that you can provide me would be greatly = appreciated!
 
Thanks!!
 
 
Ted Andrews
 
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0360_01C3D84E.2E7564C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:58:57 -0600 From: Randy Subject: [PRR] Smith & Son Ballast From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:14:16 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Smith & Son Ballast In a message dated 1/11/2004 7:03:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, pennsy@vbe.com writes: > I received the catalog from Smith & Son Ballast and I would like to know if > > anyone has used their ballast and which type of ballast do they recommend > for a Pennsy layout. I have used their coal and coke. It is excellent. I cannot comment on the ballast, as I use Highball. Lee Rainey --part1_19d.1f4bba59.2d334ee8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 1/11/2004 7:03:5= 0 PM Eastern Standard Time, pennsy@vbe.com writes:


I received the catalog from Smi= th & Son Ballast and I would like to know if
anyone has used their ballast and which type of ballast do they recommend for a Pennsy layout.


I have used their coal and coke. It is excellent. I cannot comment on the ba= llast, as I use Highball.

Lee Rainey --part1_19d.1f4bba59.2d334ee8_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RGortowski@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:44:20 EST Subject: [PRR] Bachmann Spectrum Coachs/Combines I have five PRR P70's (four pre-war, one post-war) and two PRR Combines I'd like to get rid of. The whole lot to the first person who offers me $50 plus $5 shipping. All in new, unused condition. Thanks, Rich -------------------------------1073871860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
I have five PRR P70's (four pre-war, one post-war) and two PRR Combines= I'd like to get rid of.  The whole lot to the first person who of= fers me $50 plus $5 shipping.  All in new, unused condition.
 
Thanks,
 
Rich
-------------------------------1073871860-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:49:50 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] DCC (Bus - Feeder) quesiton 1) Forget the terminal strips and section the layout into electircally insultated blocks with toggle switches to isolate them from rest of the layout. Then one section at a time can be turned off to find a problem. All of the members of our group have Romex run underneath the layout with just enough insulation removed to solder feeder wires at the desired points that run directly to the track above. 2) Discount and surplus electronics mail order houses are the best source as they sell at great bulk prices. Once again our group get together combined orders that allow us to order bulk quantities. Radio Shack? Haven't won the Power Ball, yet. Usually buy a half a dozen to ten pieces for the same price that one would cost at Radio Shack. 3) Yes, you can feed as many tracks as you want as long as you aren't running them too far. Usually not more than a few feet. The only thing to watch out for are reverse loop and wye configuration. One of our group found out that he had a hidden wye in his trackwork after everything was wired up. Still an easy rework using DCC; if it had been block wiring it would have been a major rework. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1073872190 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
1)  Forget the terminal strips and section the layout into electir= cally insultated blocks with toggle switches to isolate them from=20= rest of the layout.  Then one section at a time can be turned off to fi= nd a problem.   All of the members of our group have Romex run und= erneath the layout with just enough insulation removed to solder feeder wire= s at the desired points that run directly to the track above.
 
2)  Discount and surplus electronics mail order houses are the bes= t source as they sell at great bulk prices.  Once again our group get t= ogether combined orders that allow us to order bulk quantities.  Radio=20= Shack?  Haven't won the Power Ball, yet. <BG>   Us= ually buy a half a dozen to ten pieces for the same price that one would cos= t at Radio Shack. 
3)  Yes, you can feed as many tracks as you want as long as you ar= en't running them too far.  Usually not more than a few feet.  The= only thing to watch out for are reverse loop and wye configuration.  O= ne of our group found out that he had a hidden wye in his trackwork after ev= erything was wired up.  Still an easy rework using DCC; if it had been=20= block wiring it would have been a major rework.

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1073872190-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] (PRR)Imperial Models Q2 Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:33:04 -0500 Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:51:32 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI T1 Wow! From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bill Says: > If my scan of the thousands of posts about it is correct, BLI did not articulate > it. That is just as God and the mighty PRR intended it to be! I'll save all of my detailed comments on this model for the next issue of TKM (that's called a "teaser" in da biz), but the short version is that I am much more impressed than I was with the GG1. Yes, that beaut is rigid, and yes it does take 22" radii. I ran it on the approximately 28" radii of the Orlando HO modular layout at Prototype Rails in Cocoa, pulling a 13 car passenger train (brass resin and plastic cars)...and it ran GREAT! The sound had 'em drooling on the layout, and the look...the look...I just get misty eyed. I will have some suggested "improvements" in TKM...but there ain't too much to do on this one . The color is much closer (although still too green IMHO), absolutely damning the color on the GG1s...(which we said was, and is awful). > The only way I will buy one though is if someone can provide me conclusive > proof that it will grow 33% if I soak it in water. (:->) Sorry, no can do...but how about using HO for the rear track on the layout for forced perspective?? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:59:50 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Report? From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <9703CC26-4507-11D8-83E5-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: To Bruce, Greg, and others who attended the Cocoa Beach Prototype Modelers Meet, anything to report of interest to the PRR savvy? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:03:02 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Weekly Photo Sharing Thread? From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <08FBFFBC-4508-11D8-83E5-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On the Atlas Forums, HO and N scale respectively, they have weekly forums to share photographs. The N scale forum happens to be Sunday evening. Here is last night's thread as an example: http://forum.atlasrr.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=34810 Six pages of photos and comments on those photos! Was wondering if there would be an interest in doing a weekly stint in on my web-based PRR forum where we could share photos of the prototypes and models -- all scales -- on a weekly basis? If so, what night? I can tell you that on the Atlas Forums, members really look forward to it each week. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:12:53 -0600 From: Randy Subject: [PRR] Weekly Photo Sharing Thread? From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:30:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Weekly Photo Sharing Thread? MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry, Go for it! When I first joined this group back in 98 or so, remember I would post a photo of a recently completed model, usually paint jobs. I think I used to post one each Friday Night for awhile. It be nice to see more involved. I say Friday nghts cause that is a slow email night......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:36:43 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Weekly Photo Sharing Thread? From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Monday, January 12, 2004, at 09:30 AM, Gary Mittner wrote: > Go for it! When I first joined this group back in 98 or so, > remember I would post a photo of a recently completed model, usually > paint jobs. I think I used to post one each Friday Night for awhile. > It > be nice to see more involved. I say Friday nghts cause that is a slow > email night......Gary Friday nights also tend to be a bad television night for adults! With the web-based format, you can actually keep posting perpetually, so it could actually become an "all weekend" thing. I'll start a post this Friday and we'll see how it goes. It'll be late afternoon, but really designed for evening enjoyment. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:06:26 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Weekly Photo Sharing Thread? Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry, I think its a super idea. I have no personal website, and lists such as this usually do not allow attaching photos. So my options for disseminating and receiving pix is limited. I love to see the work of other modelers and would like to post some of my own on such a foto-forum. Regards, Andrew S. Miller ======================================================= Jerry Britton wrote: > On the Atlas Forums, HO and N scale respectively, they have weekly > forums to share photographs. The N scale forum happens to be Sunday > evening. Here is last night's thread as an example: > > http://forum.atlasrr.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=34810 > > Six pages of photos and comments on those photos! > > Was wondering if there would be an interest in doing a weekly stint in > on my web-based PRR forum where we could share photos of the prototypes > and models -- all scales -- on a weekly basis? > > If so, what night? > > I can tell you that on the Atlas Forums, members really look forward to > it each week. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:12:56 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Weekly Photo Sharing Thread? Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I think its a great idea! Regards, Andy Miller ======================================================= Jerry Britton wrote: > On the Atlas Forums, HO and N scale respectively, they have weekly > forums to share photographs. The N scale forum happens to be Sunday > evening. Here is last night's thread as an example: > > http://forum.atlasrr.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=34810 > > Six pages of photos and comments on those photos! > > Was wondering if there would be an interest in doing a weekly stint in > on my web-based PRR forum where we could share photos of the prototypes > and models -- all scales -- on a weekly basis? > > If so, what night? > > I can tell you that on the Atlas Forums, members really look forward to > it each week. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:06:18 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Cocoa Beach Report From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Monday, January 12, 2004, at 07:59 AM, Jerry Britton wrote: > To Bruce, Greg, and others who attended the Cocoa Beach Prototype > Modelers Meet, anything to report of interest to the PRR savvy? Greg probably isn't awake yet ! As always, Mike Brock and friends organized a great meet. Jeff Aley, a left coast modeler, was in charge of "facilitating" clinics, and managed to come down with the flu 24 hours before the start. Somehow, Mike managed to draft a couple of guys to pinch hit, and the clinics came off with nary a hitch (they NEVER come off without a hitch, right?). We had a good showing of PRR folks, including PRRT&HS prez Al Buchan, who was probably pretty glad to escape the east coast ice box! In the clinics I saw there were a number of PRR related items. Richard Hendrickson gave excellent clinics on Gons (Elden, you should have been there!) and open loads that featured many different cars including Pennsy. Tony Thompson gave a great clinic on "How to model Pennsy without brain damage"..too late for some of us ;^) The point of his clinic was that everyone is a PRR modeler, no matter what road they model and you can give a "Pennsy" impression pretty easily (esp in HO scale). This was a great reference for your non-SPF friends to get them up to speed. Clinics with less PRR content, but still really interesting were abundant. PRR-talk lister Ben Hom's clinic focused on modeling the boxcar fleet appropriately. As usual, Ben was busy trying to shatter some fundamental myths of the model RR hobby ! As a neat twist, Ben showed how you could do this without resorting to resin kits, for those of you with incurable "Westerfear" (although, hopefully the PRRPro group will cure some of ya'll). Larry Kline, an O scaler and WM modeler gave a seminar looking at the national boxcar fleet and comparing it to late steam ear photos and film. He showed some stunningly good film clips and stills that emphasize the "national" nature of the pool. John Roberts, a C&O modeler and another O scaler gave a fascinating talk on coal operations, which while focusing on C&O had lots of interesting stuff...biggest take home point for me was to remind me that coal came in many different sizes and to therefore vary my loads. For modelers of mines, he had great ideas about track arrangements. Tom Madden, the guru of all things Pullman gave a serious rivet counting clinic...could turn me into a Pullman modeler yet! Mike Brock amazed me with a clinic on modifying plastic steam locos to specific prototypes...his first rule is that he will not repaint the loco (just touch up the modifications)...you would not believe the amount of work he has done and still preserved the factory paint! As always, the model room was the focus of attention. Plenty of models to look at, and lots of chatter, from the moment the doors opened 'til they locked 'em at midnight! I brought a bunch of stuff, including the F30A flats from the PRRPro group project that I had done, the Broadway GG1 and T1, some P5As, my in progress FXL/FM/Crawler Crane project (which seemed to generate a lot of questions) and a dozen or so freight cars (some PRR, but mostly tank cars and military loads, to support my clinics). Greg Martin and Ben Hom also had sizable PRR models collections on display. Ben had a "mini-clinic" on cheap improvements to the Walthers X29 (coming soon to TKM!). Scales included N, HO, HON3, S, SN3, O, ON3, ON2.5, and there were lots of steamers. O, HO an N scale modular layouts were also running nearly all the time. There were a number of dealers etc there. As usual Bob's Photos was there to provide just the right print(s). Al and Patricia Westerfield were also present and selling their wares (I did not leave their booth empty handed). Stan Rydarowicz was there selling his variety of goods and indicated that he had sold a large number (nearly 100) of the F30 decals (must be PRRPro people!) recently. As for hot new stuff, I didn't get to see too much. IM was there with some N-scale tunnel motors. Southern Car and Foundry had their new HO resin Harriman RPO and Baggage cars...very nice! Branchline had the coach kits and test shots of the Pullmans...also very nice! About the only hot rumor I got was that we may see an HO resin kit of a Standard Tank Car vertical course tank car (with those funky bolsters) in the next year or so...I quickly volunteered to be a beta-tester! In my chats with the manufacturers present, the consensus on Athearn sale seemed to be that the buyer is going to have a very hard time keeping sales figures anywhere near the current levels. The feeling was mostly that the group hit hardest by this will be the wholesalers with no retail business who used to handle Athearn. Bottom line? Speculation is useless...we need to wait and see. We skipped the layout tours on Sunday, except a quick stop at Mike's, so that we could make the 8 hour drive at a reasonable hour, but I've seen most of the layouts anyway, and they have a concentration of fine ones in that area! All in all another incredible Prototype Rails meet! Happy rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-8--1020385906 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII On Monday, January 12, 2004, at 07:59 AM, Jerry Britton wrote: To Bruce, Greg, and others who attended the Cocoa Beach Prototype Modelers Meet, anything to report of interest to the PRR savvy? Greg probably isn't awake yet <! As always, Mike Brock and friends organized a great meet. Jeff Aley, a left coast modeler, was in charge of "facilitating" clinics, and managed to come down with the flu 24 hours before the start. Somehow, Mike managed to draft a couple of guys to pinch hit, and the clinics came off with nary a hitch (they NEVER come off without a hitch, right?). We had a good showing of PRR folks, including PRRT&HS prez Al Buchan, who was probably pretty glad to escape the east coast ice box! In the clinics I saw there were a number of PRR related items. Richard Hendrickson gave excellent clinics on Gons (Elden, you should have been there!) and open loads that featured many different cars including Pennsy. Tony Thompson gave a great clinic on "How to model Pennsy without brain damage"..too late for some of us ;^) The point of his clinic was that everyone is a PRR modeler, no matter what road they model and you can give a "Pennsy" impression pretty easily (esp in HO scale). This was a great reference for your non-SPF friends to get them up to speed. Clinics with less PRR content, but still really interesting were abundant. PRR-talk lister Ben Hom's clinic focused on modeling the boxcar fleet appropriately. As usual, Ben was busy trying to shatter some fundamental myths of the model RR hobby <! As a neat twist, Ben showed how you could do this without resorting to resin kits, for those of you with incurable "Westerfear" (although, hopefully the PRRPro group will cure some of ya'll). Larry Kline, an O scaler and WM modeler gave a seminar looking at the national boxcar fleet and comparing it to late steam ear photos and film. He showed some stunningly good film clips and stills that emphasize the "national" nature of the pool. John Roberts, a C&O modeler and another O scaler gave a fascinating talk on coal operations, which while focusing on C&O had lots of interesting stuff...biggest take home point for me was to remind me that coal came in many different sizes and to therefore vary my loads. For modelers of mines, he had great ideas about track arrangements. Tom Madden, the guru of all things Pullman gave a serious rivet counting clinic...could turn me into a Pullman modeler yet! Mike Brock amazed me with a clinic on modifying plastic steam locos to specific prototypes...his first rule is that he will not repaint the loco (just touch up the modifications)...you would not believe the amount of work he has done and still preserved the factory paint! As always, the model room was the focus of attention. Plenty of models to look at, and lots of chatter, from the moment the doors opened 'til they locked 'em at midnight! I brought a bunch of stuff, including the F30A flats from the PRRPro group project that I had done, the Broadway GG1 and T1, some P5As, my in progress FXL/FM/Crawler Crane project (which seemed to generate a lot of questions) and a dozen or so freight cars (some PRR, but mostly tank cars and military loads, to support my clinics). Greg Martin and Ben Hom also had sizable PRR models collections on display. Ben had a "mini-clinic" on cheap improvements to the Walthers X29 (coming soon to TKM!). Scales included N, HO, HON3, S, SN3, O, ON3, ON2.5, and there were lots of steamers. O, HO an N scale modular layouts were also running nearly all the time. There were a number of dealers etc there. As usual Bob's Photos was there to provide just the right print(s). Al and Patricia Westerfield were also present and selling their wares (I did not leave their booth empty handed). Stan Rydarowicz was there selling his variety of goods and indicated that he had sold a large number (nearly 100) of the F30 decals (must be PRRPro people!) recently. As for hot new stuff, I didn't get to see too much. IM was there with some N-scale tunnel motors. Southern Car and Foundry had their new HO resin Harriman RPO and Baggage cars...very nice! Branchline had the coach kits and test shots of the Pullmans...also very nice! About the only hot rumor I got was that we may see an HO resin kit of a Standard Tank Car vertical course tank car (with those funky bolsters) in the next year or so...I quickly volunteered to be a beta-tester! In my chats with the manufacturers present, the consensus on Athearn sale seemed to be that the buyer is going to have a very hard time keeping sales figures anywhere near the current levels. The feeling was mostly that the group hit hardest by this will be the wholesalers with no retail business who used to handle Athearn. Bottom line? Speculation is useless...we need to wait and see. We skipped the layout tours on Sunday, except a quick stop at Mike's, so that we could make the 8 hour drive at a reasonable hour, but I've seen most of the layouts anyway, and they have a concentration of fine ones in that area! All in all another incredible Prototype Rails meet! Happy rails Bruce HelveticaBruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-8--1020385906-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] PRR in South Bend Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:46:26 +0000 X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:40:00 GMT Subject: [PRR] METRORail Signaling (Houston) From: Dominic Mazoch X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:43:01 GMT Subject: [PRR] REA/Head End From: Dominic Mazoch X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:50:13 GMT Subject: [PRR] H class 2-8-0 From: Dominic Mazoch Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:53:15 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "sjlash" Subject: [PRR] Mantua Gp's/SD's List, Mantua, like Irv Athearn, took quite a leap with "modeler's licens= e" with their product lines. Does anyone remember if Mantua painted a tr= io of GP7/9's or SD7/9's in both PRR and Erie-Lackawana schemes. Thanks= Jim --------------Boundary-00=_R0AEG6G0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1"
List,  Mantua, like Irv Athearn, took q= uite a leap with "modeler's license" with their product lines.  Does= anyone remember if Mantua painted a trio of GP7/9's  or SD7/9's in = both PRR and Erie-Lackawana schemes.  Thanks  Jim
--------------Boundary-00=_R0AEG6G0000000000000-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" From: Dominic Mazoch Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:50:13 GMT Subject: [PRR-FAX] H class 2-8-0 Were these locomotives to the PRR what the GP7 later was? All purpose locomotive? That is the feeling I get from reading the Keystone. I have one in 3R O, and wander what types of trains they were on? I don't think they were the road power for the Blue Ribbon fleet; I was thinking more of a branchline passenger, freight, MOW, and snapper type locomotive. Dominic Mazoch "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] H class 2-8-0 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:18:12 +0000 From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Mantua Gp's/SD's Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:13:09 +0000 From: "Ken Nesbitt" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR in South Bend Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:53:21 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <7A98AC657D327C4180A836ED9FA027A71D2E4B@fbpa1mx1.fbcs-inc.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: That big center-cab is something. I've never seen one like that before -it's huge! Kenny -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of ndbprr@att.net Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 2:46 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] PRR in South Bend This URL was posted by Richard Wallis on the Pennsy West page on Yahoo. Some interesting pictures including a Lima or Baldwin transfer engine in South Bend. http://kepshire.tripod.com/rr/vandaliaprr.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _____________________________________________________ This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:05:10 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "sjlash" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR in South Bend Ken, If I'm not mistaken, that is a Lima, a little to early for the Baldwin's Jim=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: Ken Nesbitt=0D Date: Monday, January 12, 2004 4:58:19 PM=0D To: 'PRR-Talk'=0D Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR in South Bend=0D =0D That big center-cab is something. I've never seen one like that before=0D -it's huge!=0D =0D =0D =0D Kenny=0D =0D =0D -----Original Message-----=0D From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of=0D ndbprr@att.net=0D Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 2:46 PM=0D To: PRR-Talk=0D Subject: [PRR] PRR in South Bend=0D =0D =0D This URL was posted by Richard Wallis on the Pennsy West page on Yahoo.=0D Some=0D interesting pictures including a Lima or Baldwin transfer engine in=0D South=0D Bend.=0D =0D http://kepshire.tripod.com/rr/vandaliaprr.html=0D =0D -----------------------------------------------------------------------=0D For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.=0D =0D =0D _____________________________________________________=0D This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm=0D =0D =0D =0D -----------------------------------------------------------------------=0D For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.=0D =0D =2E --------------Boundary-00=_MWIEQL80000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1"
 Ken,  If I'm not mistaken, that is a Lima, a little to ea= rly for the Baldwin's    Jim
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: Monday, Janu= ary 12, 2004 4:58:19 PM
Subject: RE: [PRR]= PRR in South Bend
 
That big center-cab is something. I've never seen one like that befo= re
-it's huge!
 
 
 
Kenny
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behal= f Of
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 2:46 PM
To: PRR-Talk
Subject: [PRR] PRR in South Bend
 
 
This URL was posted by Richard Wallis on the Pennsy West page on Yah= oo.
Some
interesting pictures including a Lima or Baldwin transfer engine in<= /DIV>
South
Bend.
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------= ---
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_____________________________________________________
This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm
 
 
 
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.
--------------Boundary-00=_MWIEQL80000000000000-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR in South Bend Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:25:55 -0600 Hi Guys Yes, it's a Lima. When I was little, living in Chicago, I used to go to = the 59th St Yard at 71st St. Watched the H9 or H10 shoving cars in and = out of the yard. Then, one day, I saw this big Lima. Boy, was I = surprised. Stared at it for hours. A monster to a little boy of 15 or = so. (Or so it seems to me now). Memories! Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist, Proud SPF PRRTHS #1204 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 01/02/2004 ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C3D941.E67477C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Guys
 
Yes, it's a Lima.  When I was little, living in = Chicago,=20 I used to go to the 59th St Yard at 71st St.  Watched the H9 or H10 = shoving=20 cars in and out of the yard.  Then, one day, I saw this big = Lima. =20 Boy, was I surprised.  Stared at it for hours.  A monster to a = little=20 boy of 15 or so.  (Or so it seems to me now).  = Memories!
 
Morgan Bilbo
Ferroequinologist, Proud = SPF
PRRTHS=20 #1204
 

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus = Free.
Checked=20 by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: = 6.0.558 /=20 Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: = 01/02/2004
------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C3D941.E67477C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: RE: [PRR] LS25 5672 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:59:12 -0500 Three great spotting points: 3. Full height cooling section with outside louvers. 2. The number is the second best indicator. 1.The number one best spotting feature  that little diamond on the cab  under the unit number. What a piece of history that Lima builders plate would be if it survived Others would be those GSC Commonwealth trucks with that massive brake cylinder between the 1 and 2 axial. Yes the RT624 (BS24) had the GSC Commonwealth truck also but it was reversed from the LS25. The Limas also had one large sealed beam headlight. The Baldwins had twin sealed headlights. The Limas have those large number boards on the ends of the hood. The Baldwins had tiny little painted on numbers on the end of the units, along with lighted number boards on the side of the hoods. The Limas had most of its louvers in the doors, while the Baldwins had them mostly in the cowling over the doors. The first group of Baldwins also had that distinctive Baldwin bulge in the hood, the second group did not have the bulge but had most everything else. Lima also had those really neat grab irons on the end of the hood. The Baldwins did not have any hood mounted grabs. The Limas had their exhaust stack at the ends of the hood  by the radiator section. The Baldwins exhaust was in towards the cabs There is a lot more too  but enough for now. Great picture  nice and clear, great color and those zebra strips are white! Cos Wayne S. Betty Cos Communications, Inc. Small business IT services. Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone Ken, If I'm not mistaken, that is a Lima, a little to early for the Baldwin's Jim -------Original Message------- From: Ken Nesbitt Date: Monday, January 12, 2004 4:58:19 PM To: 'PRR-Talk' Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR in South Bend That big center-cab is something. I've never seen one like that before -it's huge! Kenny -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [ mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of ndbprr@att.net Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 2:46 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] PRR in South Bend This URL was posted by Richard Wallis on the Pennsy West page on Yahoo. Some interesting pictures including a Lima or Baldwin transfer engine in South Bend. Tracking #: 2F79C39CB8AD2B4299EC575392F9765E94AB50F0 ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C3D94E.EE4E9630 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Th= ree great spotting points:

 

3.= Full height cooling section with outside = louvers.

2.= The number is the second best indicator.

1.= The number one best spotting feature – that little diamond on the cab = – under the unit number.

What a piece of history that Lima builders plate would be if it = survived

 

Others would be those GSC Commonwealth trucks with that massive = brake cylinder between the 1 and 2 axial.

Yes the RT624 (BS24) had the GSC Commonwealth truck also but it = was reversed from the LS25.  =

The Lima’s also had one large sealed beam headlight. The = Baldwin’s had twin sealed headlights.

The Lima’s have those large number boards on the ends of = the hood.

The Baldwin’s had tiny little painted on numbers on the end = of the units, along with lighted number boards on the side of the = hoods.

The Lima’s had most of its louvers in the doors, while the = Baldwin’s had them mostly in the cowling over the = doors.

The first group of Baldwin’s also had that distinctive = Baldwin bulge in the hood, the second group did not have the bulge but had most = everything else.

 

Lima also had those really neat grab irons on the end of the = hood.  The Baldwin’s did not = have any hood mounted grabs.

The Lima’s had their exhaust stack at the ends of the hood = – by the radiator section.  The = Baldwin’s exhaust was in towards the cabs

There is a lot more too – but enough for = now.

Great picture – nice and clear, great color and those zebra = strips are white!

 

Cos

=

Wayne S. = Betty

Cos Communications, Inc.

=

Small = business IT services.

=

 

Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road

=

NMRA, = MER, Susquehanna Div, 11

=

NHRS, = Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061

=

http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm

at the = west end of the PRR electrified zone

=

<= span class=3DEmailStyle17> 

 

 Ken, = If I'm not mistaken, that is a Lima, a little to early for the Baldwin's    Jim

 

-------Original Message-------

 

From: Ken = Nesbitt

Date: Monday, January 12, 2004 4:58:19 PM

To: 'PRR-Talk'

Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR in South Bend

 

That big = center-cab is something. I've never seen one like that before

-it's = huge!

 

 

 

Kenny

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On = Behalf Of

ndbprr@att.net

Sent: Monday, = January 12, 2004 2:46 PM

To: = PRR-Talk

Subject: = [PRR] PRR in South Bend

=

 

 

This URL was = posted by Richard Wallis on the Pennsy West page on Yahoo.

Some

interesting = pictures including a Lima or Baldwin transfer engine in

South

Bend.

 

 

 

 <= /p>

------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C3D94E.EE4E9630-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] (PRR)Imperial Models Q2 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:53:25 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Sam: I also have an Imperial Q2, but it has no problems through switches. It will go through a #6 xover very smoothly. Check the lateral movement of the drivers. Sometimes the bearing flanges are a bit larger then they should be which could restrict lateral movement. Also, check the front to rear alignment of the drivers. Turn the engine up side down and run a steel straight edge on the rim of the tires. (Where the tires would touch the track) See if there's any gap between the tire and the straight edge. If there is a gap on the front wheel, this could be the problem. (This problem also causes some locos to climb the rails on normal curves.) To solve this problem you can loosen the front screw on the axle cover plate and put a small shim between the cover plate and the frame. This shim should be the same size as the gap between the wheel and the straight edge. The bearing springs will then push the bearings down against the cover plate and bring the wheel-set into the proper alignment. Hope this helps, Larry Reynolds ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Vastano" To: ; Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 9:33 PM Subject: [PRR-Modeling] (PRR)Imperial Models Q2 > Group, > > I was wondering what size turnout I should use for this engine? I tried a > #6 but the front driver seems to be climbing the frog. Should I be using a > #8? It seems like the front of that engine is light, I was thinking about > adding weight. Anybody have any ideas? > > > Thanks > > SamV > > _________________________________________________________________ > High-speed users-be more efficient online with the new MSN Premium Internet > Software. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1 > > > > Sharing and enjoying our memories and materials and methods to better reproduce the PRR in miniature ! > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR-Modeling/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > PRR-Modeling-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 05:29:38 -0800 (PST) From: Joseph Andrews Subject: [PRR] Athearn Sale Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 09:50:43 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] PRR photos and drawings in the 1953 CBC (freight) From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] BLI T1 uncovered Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:02:59 +0000 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:42:36 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] PRR photos and drawings in the 1953 CBC (company service) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:48:33 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR photos and drawings in the 1953 CBC (company From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 01:04:30 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Droege's Freight Trains and Terminals In a message dated 1/13/04 8:51:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:41:55 -0000 > From: "George Neat" > Subject: Youngwood First Gravity Hump? > > The Youngwood Railroad Museum (PRR Museum) located in Youngwood, PA > is located in the former PRR Youngwood Depot. We are under the > understanding that the SW Branch leading from Greensburg to the > Youngwood Yard was the first gravity hump. We are trying to locate > any information that may be able to help us prove this so it may be > marked as histroical. We have some leads that we are working on. One > lead is a book by, John A. Droege, titled "Freight Terminals and > Trains". We are trying to locate this out of print book or any > information that may help us in proving and getting it marked as > historical so that it is preserved for future generations. Any and > all help will greatly be welcomed. Thank you, George Neat, General > Manager Youngwood Railroad Museum. > That Droege book was published in 1912. Don't confuse it with Passenger Trains and Terminals, circa 1916, which was once reprinted in a Kalmbach hardback edition. Youngwood is not indexed in FTT (cited above), but does appear as one line of data in a table "Tabulated Summary of Hump or Summit Grades". With a grade from the summit of 1.74 per cent over 80 feet, the total drop was only 1.4 feet, with an exit velocity of 5.4 mph. No offense, but this is only a mini-hump, the kind of switching assist many railroaders termed "a pimple". The other data seems to say that most of the traffic at Youngwood was coal and coke (no surprise there), that the ladder tracks were grades at 1.3% and the bowl at 0.3%, and the direction of humping was westward. Sorry there isn't more -- the table doesn't even indicate how many bowl tracks there were, or their capacity. And no indication of its possible seniority over other gravity yards. For the rest of you SPF's, this table includes quite a few of PRR's greatest hits, along with some points I know were on the New York Central System (Dewitt and both Elkharts). I'm not really sure of the location of yards shown as Honey Pot, or Sheridan, or Linwood. Clues: 1. somewhere I've heard of a Honey Pot on the PRR, not to be confused with Pot (Potomac) yard at Alexandria on the RF&P. 2. Sheridan (Wyoming?) was on the Burlington, not the UP. Nor has Wyoming (to my knowledge) ever had a hump yard. 3. Linwood OH is a Cincinnati suburb next to Undercliff Yard. Wherever the tabulated Linwood was, it humped westbound and had a 656 car bowl. A parting shot -- my impression is that Columbus Yards A and B were vastly expanded circa 1916 -- and definitely some time after 1893. Still, the circa 1912 yard at Columbus had two humps and 3402 car capacity. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 01:04:30 EST Subject: [PRR] Droege's Freight Trains and Terminals In a message dated 1/13/04 8:51:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:41:55 -0000 > From: "George Neat" > Subject: Youngwood First Gravity Hump? > > The Youngwood Railroad Museum (PRR Museum) located in Youngwood, PA > is located in the former PRR Youngwood Depot. We are under the > understanding that the SW Branch leading from Greensburg to the > Youngwood Yard was the first gravity hump. We are trying to locate > any information that may be able to help us prove this so it may be > marked as histroical. We have some leads that we are working on. One > lead is a book by, John A. Droege, titled "Freight Terminals and > Trains". We are trying to locate this out of print book or any > information that may help us in proving and getting it marked as > historical so that it is preserved for future generations. Any and > all help will greatly be welcomed. Thank you, George Neat, General > Manager Youngwood Railroad Museum. > That Droege book was published in 1912. Don't confuse it with Passenger Trains and Terminals, circa 1916, which was once reprinted in a Kalmbach hardback edition. Youngwood is not indexed in FTT (cited above), but does appear as one line of data in a table "Tabulated Summary of Hump or Summit Grades". With a grade from the summit of 1.74 per cent over 80 feet, the total drop was only 1.4 feet, with an exit velocity of 5.4 mph. No offense, but this is only a mini-hump, the kind of switching assist many railroaders termed "a pimple". The other data seems to say that most of the traffic at Youngwood was coal and coke (no surprise there), that the ladder tracks were grades at 1.3% and the bowl at 0.3%, and the direction of humping was westward. Sorry there isn't more -- the table doesn't even indicate how many bowl tracks there were, or their capacity. And no indication of its possible seniority over other gravity yards. For the rest of you SPF's, this table includes quite a few of PRR's greatest hits, along with some points I know were on the New York Central System (Dewitt and both Elkharts). I'm not really sure of the location of yards shown as Honey Pot, or Sheridan, or Linwood. Clues: 1. somewhere I've heard of a Honey Pot on the PRR, not to be confused with Pot (Potomac) yard at Alexandria on the RF&P. 2. Sheridan (Wyoming?) was on the Burlington, not the UP. Nor has Wyoming (to my knowledge) ever had a hump yard. 3. Linwood OH is a Cincinnati suburb next to Undercliff Yard. Wherever the tabulated Linwood was, it humped westbound and had a 656 car bowl. A parting shot -- my impression is that Columbus Yards A and B were vastly expanded circa 1916 -- and definitely some time after 1893. Still, the circa 1912 yard at Columbus had two humps and 3402 car capacity. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West --part1_94.420db801.2d3635ee_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 1/13/04 8:51:18=20= PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes:


Message: 7
   Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:41:55 -0000
   From: "George Neat" <g.neatjr@comcast.net>
Subject: Youngwood First Gravity Hump?

The Youngwood Railroad Museum (PRR Museum) located in Youngwood, PA
is located in the former PRR Youngwood Depot. We are under the
understanding that the SW Branch leading from Greensburg to the
Youngwood Yard was the first gravity hump. We are trying to locate
any information that may be able to help us prove this so it may be
marked as histroical. We have some leads that we are working on. One
lead is a book by, John A. Droege, titled "Freight Terminals and
Trains". We are trying to locate this out of print book or any
information that may help us in proving and getting it marked as
historical so that it is preserved for future generations. Any and
all help will greatly be welcomed. Thank you, George Neat, General
Manager Youngwood Railroad Museum.


That Droege book was published in 1912.  Don't confuse it with Passe= nger Trains and Terminals, circa 1916, which was once reprinted in a Kal= mbach hardback edition. 

Youngwood is not indexed in FTT (cited above), but does appear as one= line of data in a table "Tabulated Summary of Hump or Summit Grades". = With a grade from the summit of 1.74 per cent over 80 feet, the total drop=20= was only 1.4 feet, with an exit velocity of 5.4 mph.  No offense, but t= his is only a mini-hump, the kind of switching assist many railroaders terme= d "a pimple".

The other data seems to say that most of the traffic at Youngwood was coal a= nd coke (no surprise there), that the ladder tracks were grades at 1.3% and=20= the bowl at 0.3%, and the direction of humping was westward.  Sorry the= re isn't more -- the table doesn't even indicate how many bowl tracks there=20= were, or their capacity.  And no indication of its possible seniority o= ver other gravity yards.

For the rest of you SPF's, this table includes quite a few of PRR's greatest= hits, along with some points I know were on the New York Central System (De= witt and both Elkharts).  I'm not really sure of the location of yards=20= shown as Honey Pot, or Sheridan, or Linwood.  Clues:
1.  somewhere I've heard of a Honey Pot on the PRR, not to be confused=20= with Pot (Potomac) yard at Alexandria on the RF&P.
2.  Sheridan (Wyoming?) was on the Burlington, not the UP.  Nor ha= s Wyoming (to my knowledge) ever had a hump yard.
3.  Linwood OH is a Cincinnati suburb next to Undercliff Yard.  Wh= erever the tabulated Linwood was, it humped westbound and had a 656 car bowl= .

A parting shot -- my impression is that Columbus Yards A and B were vastly e= xpanded circa 1916 -- and definitely some time after 1893.  Still, the=20= circa 1912 yard at Columbus had two humps and 3402 car capacity.

           &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO
(Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968)
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   And Remembering PRR Lines West
--part1_94.420db801.2d3635ee_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:57:42 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI T1 uncovered Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I got that view myself last night. I just picked up my T1 from my dealer yesterday and after drooling all over it at work in the afternoon, I took it down to the club last night. After four laps around the North Shore Club with a 15 car mail and express train, the rear unit stopped turning. My investigations led to removing the boiler shell (easy - follow the directions from BLI). I discovered that the drive is similar to the classic Athearn, a central motor with a gear box tower on each end connected by a universal. The pins on the rear universal had broken! Has anyone else had this problem? I am trying to determine if the problem is endemic to the T1's, and I will have to rebuild the universals to get the loco to work, or did I just get a lemon. I was disappointed in the pulling power. The 14 car train was all plastic and almost all on Reboxx or I/M wheels, but the T1 still had trouble on the grades. Friends kept reminding me that the prototype was not designed as a mountain hauler, but this is the RR I have to live with, and if the T1 is going to traverse the NS Club layout, it will need to handle those grades. I did not think 15 cars was asking too much of a T1. Perhaps it will do better with all the drivers flanged. The makeup of my mail/express (not necessarily in this order): 3 Red Caboose X29 5 Bethlehem B60b 2 kitbashed REA express reefers 1 Cannonball Car Shops converted troop sleeper (NH) 2 Walthers R50bs 1 AHM BM60nb w ECW 6 wheel trucks and Reboxx wheels 1 ECW P70fbr w MDC "Commonwealth" trucks with Reboxx wheels The NH car was the only clunker. It runs on Cape Line Allied Full Cushion trucks Well, back to my dealer today and get a working T1 Other than that the loco is gorgeous and sounds fantastic! Regards, Andrew S. Miller ======================================================= ndbprr@att.net wrote: > Tony's train exchange has pictures of the BLI T1 with the boiler shell and > tender shells removed showing the internals and printed circuit cards if > anyone is interested. The motor is between the two drives and dirves both > from either end. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 09:33:47 EST Subject: [PRR] BLI T1 Drive problem Andrew S. Miller posted that the pins broke off of the drive coupling. The test we did on one of these locos with the blind drivers encountered the same problem causing the rear drivers to intermittently stall. When the loco entered a curve the stalling drivers climbed the railhead and derailed. A few nights later we tested another out-of-box model with the blind drivers finding it to track flawlessly through 24" radius curves, 22" curves showed a little bucking. The test of the loco with the flanged drivers installed was postponed until next week. All in all, this model rates very high with all of us, even the none Pennsy fans. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1074090827 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
  Andrew S. Miller posted that the pins broke off of the drive cou= pling. 
 
  The test we did on one of these locos with the blind drivers enc= ountered the same problem causing the rear drivers to intermittently stall.&= nbsp; When the loco entered a curve the stalling drivers climbed the railhea= d and derailed.   A few nights later we tested another out-of-box=20= model with the blind drivers finding it to track flawlessly through 24"= radius curves, 22" curves showed a little bucking.
 
  The test of the loco with the flanged drivers installed was post= poned until next week.  All in all,  this model rates very high wi= th all of us, even the none Pennsy fans.

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1074090827-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:43:08 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI T1 uncovered From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Wednesday, January 14, 2004, at 07:57 AM, Andrew S. Miller wrote: > I got that view myself last night. I just picked up my T1 from my > dealer > yesterday and after drooling all over it at work in the afternoon, I > took it > down to the club last night. > I was disappointed in the pulling power. The 14 car train was all > plastic and > almost all on Reboxx or I/M wheels, but the T1 still had trouble on the > grades. Andrew, What is the % of that grade? Seems like a helper might be in order...just like the prototype . > Perhaps it will do better > with all the drivers flanged. I don't know! What is the min radius of the layout? It seems pretty clear that somewhere around a 40" min is required for the flanged drivers. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-4--852575886 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII On Wednesday, January 14, 2004, at 07:57 AM, Andrew S. Miller wrote: I got that view myself last night. I just picked up my T1 from my dealer yesterday and after drooling all over it at work in the afternoon, I took it down to the club last night. < I was disappointed in the pulling power. The 14 car train was all plastic and almost all on Reboxx or I/M wheels, but the T1 still had trouble on the grades. Andrew, What is the % of that grade? Seems like a helper might be in order...just like the prototype <. < Perhaps it will do better with all the drivers flanged. I don't know! What is the min radius of the layout? It seems pretty clear that somewhere around a 40" min is required for the flanged drivers. Happy Rails Bruce HelveticaBruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-4--852575886-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] BLI T1 uncovered Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:52:42 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew S. Miller" I discovered that the > drive is similar to the classic Athearn, a central motor with a gear box tower > on each end connected by a universal. The pins on the rear universal had > broken! Has anyone else had this problem? No problem so far, but that is a classic Athearn type problem---two of my Genesis F units suffered fractures of the new, smaller dogbones in the universal---replaced quickly by Athearn customer service. Are the T1 dogbones as small as the new Genesis? > I was disappointed in the pulling power. The 14 car train was all plastic and > almost all on Reboxx or I/M wheels, but the T1 still had trouble on the > grades. Just out of curiosity, what percent grade are you dealing with? Mine takes 14 cars (4 brass) or 15 cars (3 brass) up a 1.5% straight grade. It slips on the superelevated 37.5" radius curve at the top. > Perhaps it will do better > with all the drivers flanged. If your trouble is on a straightaway, maybe not. If it is on a curve similar to the above, as George Pierson mentioned the middle drivers aren't making much contact and it is operating as a 4-2-2-4, in which opinion I concur. In that case the flanged drives might help, though my next question is what is the minimum radius you are talking about? I don't know how they get the loco to operate on 22 inch radius curves out of the box. They surely are flat and must be absolutely kink-free (I have operated my Gem 2-10-4 on 24 inch perfect radius curves successfully). I can't imagine what the minimum radius is for this loco with all drivers flanged. > The NH car was the only clunker. It runs on Cape Line Allied Full Cushion > trucks > Maybe a clunker compared to your other trucks,but my Cape Line Allied trucks (and my Cape Line 2DP5s on my B60) are exceptionally easy runners. Those 2DP5s have been operating for 8 years on the club layout without a derailment. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:36:44 -0500 From: Tom Hayden Subject: [PRR] Re: Youngwood First Gravity Hump? Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:47:24 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Set Up Running From: timpaniman Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:50:55 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI T1 uncovered Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The club's max grade is around 2%. No one has accurately measured it, but 2% is the designed our building standards are good enough that I doubt its off by more than 1/10 %. The problem is that, like most model RRs, it also incorporates a long sharp curve. Entire 75 car freights can be on the curve and grade. Certainly the 15 car M&E train was entirely on the curve (around 36"r) and on the grade when it would slip its drivers. Interestingly, the universal pin broke later, when on the flat! I had been running it with one flanged driver installed on the front unit. It handled all our curves (36"r and perhaps a little less), and it did improve its traction. Regards, Andrew S. Miller ======================================================= Bob Zoeller wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andrew S. Miller" > I discovered that the > > drive is similar to the classic Athearn, a central motor with a gear box > tower > > on each end connected by a universal. The pins on the rear universal had > > broken! Has anyone else had this problem? > > No problem so far, but that is a classic Athearn type problem---two of my > Genesis F units suffered fractures of the new, smaller dogbones in the > universal---replaced quickly by Athearn customer service. Are the T1 > dogbones as small as the new Genesis? > > > I was disappointed in the pulling power. The 14 car train was all plastic > and > > almost all on Reboxx or I/M wheels, but the T1 still had trouble on the > > grades. > > Just out of curiosity, what percent grade are you dealing with? Mine takes > 14 cars (4 brass) or 15 cars (3 brass) up a 1.5% straight grade. It slips on > the superelevated 37.5" radius curve at the top. > > > Perhaps it will do better > > with all the drivers flanged. > > If your trouble is on a straightaway, maybe not. If it is on a curve > similar to the above, as George Pierson mentioned the middle drivers aren't > making much contact and it is operating as a 4-2-2-4, in which opinion I > concur. In that case the flanged drives might help, though my next question > is what is the minimum radius you are talking about? I don't know how they > get the loco to operate on 22 inch radius curves out of the box. They > surely are flat and must be absolutely kink-free (I have operated my Gem > 2-10-4 on 24 inch perfect radius curves successfully). I can't imagine what > the minimum radius is for this loco with all drivers flanged. > > > The NH car was the only clunker. It runs on Cape Line Allied Full Cushion > > trucks > > > Maybe a clunker compared to your other trucks,but my Cape Line Allied > trucks (and my Cape Line 2DP5s on my B60) are exceptionally easy runners. > Those 2DP5s have been operating for 8 years on the club layout without a > derailment. > > Bob Zoeller > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. -- Regards, Andrew S. Miller ======================================================= ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] T-1 assignments Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:25:10 +0000 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:25:04 -0500 From: Ike Subject: Re: [PRR] Set Up Running Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: timpaniman wrote: > Hi SPF's > > I would like to recommend the book, "Set Up Running."by John W. Orr, son of > PRR engineer Oscar P. Orr. > Set Up Running tells the story of a Pennsylvania Railroad Engineer,who > operated steam-powered freight and passenger trains throughout central > Pennsylvania and South Central New York.From 1904 t0 1949. Orr sat at the > controls of many famous steam locomotives;moved trains loaded with > coal,perishables,and other freight; and encountered virtually every > situation a locomotive engineer of that era could expect to see. > > John W.(Jack) Orr, Oscar's son, tells his father's story,which begins at the > Central Steam Heating Plant in Bellefont, Pennsylvania. Oscar operated > nearly every kind of steam locomotive the PRR owned,working from the bottom > of the roster to the top position (number one in seniority) Orr has an ear > for detail,and a vivid memory. He tells about his father's first encounter > with an automobile along the right-of-way,about what it was like tooperate a > train in a blizzard, and about the difficulties railroadmen encountered in > stopping a train load of loaded with oilin order to take on water and > coal-among many other stories in the author's large memory bank. Most of > the book takes place on the Bald Eagle Branch. > I got my copy from Amazon. > Doug Jones PRRT&HS #524 > > > I'll second that- Living near the Williamsport Division makes it all the more interesting. Orr even did time in nearby Lykens at the anthracite mines in Lykens, Williamstown and Wiconisco- making the daily coal run on the Lykens branch to the main at Millersburg. -- Yours, Troy ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bennett Levin" Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1 assignments Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:34:59 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Is it really an Urban Ledgend that Eric and I have one stored under tarps at Fairhill................MP83 NEC Bennett ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 8:25 AM Subject: [PRR] T-1 assignments > Is there any chance a T1 could have been used on the PRSL runs? That's about > the only way I am going to have to justify one of the beasts unless I use > some other figment of someones imagination for a reason for one to be on the > corridor in North philadelphia. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:59:56 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] PRR photos and drawings in the 1953 CBC (passenger) From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1 assignments Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:06:31 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-MDRemoteIP: 192.0.1.150 X-Return-Path: geshick@velocity.net X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bennett Levin" To: ; "PRR-Talk" Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 11:34 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1 assignments > Is it really an Urban Ledgend that Eric and I have one stored under tarps at > Fairhill................MP83 NEC > > > Bennett ... and you're planning another excursion up the P&E with it. drool --- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:30:54 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1 assignments Bennett: Yes, and isn't it the elusive 6112, the lone *Lima* T1 that was delivered to PRR, moved from enginehouse to enginehouse only at night, and then stored for years in a secret pocket track inside Gallitzin Tunnel? And was discovered about 1962 by Randy McDougal, the teenage hero of "When the Long Trains Roll," after he grew up, got furloughed by the PRR and started an appliance-repair shop a mile east of the Forest Zoo at Gallitzin in the abandoned hunting cabin where the Nazi saboteur collaborators had left him unconscious? :-) Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. Bennett Levin wrote: >Is it really an Urban Ledgend that Eric and I have one stored under tarps at >Fairhill................MP83 NEC > > >Bennett >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: "PRR-Talk" >Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 8:25 AM >Subject: [PRR] T-1 assignments > > > > >>Is there any chance a T1 could have been used on the PRSL runs? That's >> >> >about > > >>the only way I am going to have to justify one of the beasts unless I use >>some other figment of someones imagination for a reason for one to be on >> >> >the > > >>corridor in North philadelphia. >> >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. >> >> >> > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > --------------050002060805020100030807 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Bennett:

Yes, and isn't it the elusive 6112, the lone *Lima* T1 that was delivered to PRR, moved from enginehouse to enginehouse only at night, and then stored for years in a secret pocket track inside Gallitzin Tunnel? And was discovered about 1962 by Randy McDougal, the teenage hero of "When the Long Trains Roll," after he grew up, got furloughed by the PRR and started an appliance-repair shop a mile east of the Forest Zoo at Gallitzin in the abandoned hunting cabin where the Nazi saboteur collaborators had left him unconscious?

:-)

Dan Cupper
Harrisburg, Pa.



Bennett Levin wrote:
Is it really an Urban Ledgend that Eric and I have one stored under tarps at
Fairhill................MP83 NEC


Bennett
----- Original Message -----
From: <ndbprr@att.net>
To: "PRR-Talk" <Prr-Talk@dsop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 8:25 AM
Subject: [PRR] T-1 assignments


  
Is there any chance a T1 could have been used on the PRSL runs?  That's
    
about
  
the only way I am going to have to justify one of the beasts unless I use
some other figment of someones imagination for a reason for one to be on
    
the
  
corridor in North philadelphia.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

    



-----------------------------------------------------------------------
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

--------------050002060805020100030807-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Craig Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Droege's Freight Trains and Terminals Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:29:32 -0500 A quick perusal of my copy of the Droege book (1912, 1st edition, 3rd = impression) yielded the following: "So far as can be learned, the first summit yard in this country was = constructed by the Pennsylvania Road in 1882 at Huffs Station, 2 miles = south of Greenbush, Va." (p65) There are tests referred to in 1899 at the Honey Pot Yard (Sunbury Div.) Perhaps someone confused Greenbush with Greensburg? (a few miles North = of Youngwood) HTH Craig Miller somewhere north of east Pittsburgh ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RickTipton@aol.com=20 To: PRR@yahoogroups.com ; PennsyWest@egroups.com ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 1:04 AM Subject: [PRR] Droege's Freight Trains and Terminals In a message dated 1/13/04 8:51:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, = PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: Message: 7 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:41:55 -0000 From: "George Neat" Subject: Youngwood First Gravity Hump? The Youngwood Railroad Museum (PRR Museum) located in Youngwood, PA is located in the former PRR Youngwood Depot. We are under the understanding that the SW Branch leading from Greensburg to the Youngwood Yard was the first gravity hump. We are trying to locate any information that may be able to help us prove this so it may be marked as histroical. We have some leads that we are working on. One lead is a book by, John A. Droege, titled "Freight Terminals and Trains". We are trying to locate this out of print book or any information that may help us in proving and getting it marked as historical so that it is preserved for future generations. Any and all help will greatly be welcomed. Thank you, George Neat, General Manager Youngwood Railroad Museum. That Droege book was published in 1912. Don't confuse it with = Passenger Trains and Terminals, circa 1916, which was once reprinted in = a Kalmbach hardback edition. =20 Youngwood is not indexed in FTT (cited above), but does appear as one = line of data in a table "Tabulated Summary of Hump or Summit Grades". = With a grade from the summit of 1.74 per cent over 80 feet, the total = drop was only 1.4 feet, with an exit velocity of 5.4 mph. No offense, = but this is only a mini-hump, the kind of switching assist many = railroaders termed "a pimple". The other data seems to say that most of the traffic at Youngwood was = coal and coke (no surprise there), that the ladder tracks were grades at = 1.3% and the bowl at 0.3%, and the direction of humping was westward. = Sorry there isn't more -- the table doesn't even indicate how many bowl = tracks there were, or their capacity. And no indication of its possible = seniority over other gravity yards. For the rest of you SPF's, this table includes quite a few of PRR's = greatest hits, along with some points I know were on the New York = Central System (Dewitt and both Elkharts). I'm not really sure of the = location of yards shown as Honey Pot, or Sheridan, or Linwood. Clues: 1. somewhere I've heard of a Honey Pot on the PRR, not to be confused = with Pot (Potomac) yard at Alexandria on the RF&P. 2. Sheridan (Wyoming?) was on the Burlington, not the UP. Nor has = Wyoming (to my knowledge) ever had a hump yard. 3. Linwood OH is a Cincinnati suburb next to Undercliff Yard. = Wherever the tabulated Linwood was, it humped westbound and had a 656 = car bowl. A parting shot -- my impression is that Columbus Yards A and B were = vastly expanded circa 1916 -- and definitely some time after 1893. = Still, the circa 1912 yard at Columbus had two humps and 3402 car = capacity. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C3DA9A.0FCF79E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
A quick perusal of my copy of the = Droege book=20 (1912, 1st edition, 3rd impression) yielded the following:
 
"So far as can be learned, the first = summit yard in=20 this country was constructed by the Pennsylvania Road in 1882 at Huffs = Station,=20 2 miles south of Greenbush, Va."
 
(p65)
 
There are tests referred to in 1899 at = the Honey=20 Pot Yard (Sunbury Div.)
 
Perhaps someone confused Greenbush with = Greensburg?=20 (a few miles North of Youngwood)
 
HTH
Craig Miller
 
somewhere north of east = Pittsburgh
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 RickTipton@aol.com
To: PRR@yahoogroups.com ; PennsyWest@egroups.com ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, = 2004 1:04=20 AM
Subject: [PRR] Droege's Freight = Trains=20 and Terminals

In a message dated 1/13/04 8:51:18 = PM Eastern=20 Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com=20 writes:


Message: 7
   Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 = 22:41:55=20 -0000
   From: "George Neat" <g.neatjr@comcast.net>
Subj= ect:=20 Youngwood First Gravity Hump?

The Youngwood Railroad Museum = (PRR=20 Museum) located in Youngwood, PA
is located in the former PRR = Youngwood=20 Depot. We are under the
understanding that the SW Branch leading = from=20 Greensburg to the
Youngwood Yard was the first gravity hump. We = are=20 trying to locate
any information that may be able to help us = prove this=20 so it may be
marked as histroical. We have some leads that we are = working=20 on. One
lead is a book by, John A. Droege, titled "Freight = Terminals=20 and
Trains". We are trying to locate this out of print book or=20 any
information that may help us in proving and getting it marked = as
historical so that it is preserved for future generations. Any = and
all help will greatly be welcomed. Thank you, George Neat,=20 General
Manager Youngwood Railroad = Museum.


That=20 Droege book was published in 1912.  Don't confuse it with = Passenger=20 Trains and Terminals, circa 1916, which was once reprinted in a = Kalmbach=20 hardback edition. 

Youngwood is not indexed in FTT = (cited=20 above), but does appear as one line of data in a table "Tabulated = Summary of=20 Hump or Summit Grades".  With a grade from the summit of 1.74 per = cent=20 over 80 feet, the total drop was only 1.4 feet, with an exit velocity = of 5.4=20 mph.  No offense, but this is only a mini-hump, the kind of = switching=20 assist many railroaders termed "a pimple".

The other data seems = to say=20 that most of the traffic at Youngwood was coal and coke (no surprise = there),=20 that the ladder tracks were grades at 1.3% and the bowl at 0.3%, and = the=20 direction of humping was westward.  Sorry there isn't more -- the = table=20 doesn't even indicate how many bowl tracks there were, or their=20 capacity.  And no indication of its possible seniority over other = gravity=20 yards.

For the rest of you SPF's, this table includes quite a = few of=20 PRR's greatest hits, along with some points I know were on the New = York=20 Central System (Dewitt and both Elkharts).  I'm not really sure = of the=20 location of yards shown as Honey Pot, or Sheridan, or Linwood. =20 Clues:
1.  somewhere I've heard of a Honey Pot on the PRR, not = to be=20 confused with Pot (Potomac) yard at Alexandria on the = RF&P.
2. =20 Sheridan (Wyoming?) was on the Burlington, not the UP.  Nor has = Wyoming=20 (to my knowledge) ever had a hump yard.
3.  Linwood OH is a = Cincinnati=20 suburb next to Undercliff Yard.  Wherever the tabulated Linwood = was, it=20 humped westbound and had a 656 car bowl.

A parting shot -- my=20 impression is that Columbus Yards A and B were vastly expanded circa = 1916 --=20 and definitely some time after 1893.  Still, the circa 1912 yard = at=20 Columbus had two humps and 3402 car capacity.

         &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;      =20 Rick Tipton - Louisville=20 = KY
           &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;    =20 Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO
(Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div.=20 = 1966-1968)
          = ;            =       =20 And Remembering PRR Lines West =
------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C3DA9A.0FCF79E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bennett Levin" Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1 assignments Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 09:41:23 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: One was being planned with 3 B60's with open doors and a dozen P85FBR coaches and a twin unit diner off of #28 or #29. But then they severed the track at Emporium Jct. Sorry, Bennett ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Shickler" To: "Bennett Levin" ; ; "PRR-Talk" Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1 assignments > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bennett Levin" > To: ; "PRR-Talk" > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 11:34 AM > Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1 assignments > > > > Is it really an Urban Ledgend that Eric and I have one stored under tarps > at > > Fairhill................MP83 NEC > > > > > > Bennett > > ... and you're planning another excursion up the P&E with it. > > > drool > > > --- > Jerry Shickler > Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: > http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bennett Levin" Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1 assignments Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 09:42:35 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: One was being planned with 3 B60's with open doors and a dozen P85FBR coaches and a twin unit diner off of #28 or #29. But then they severed the track at Emporium Jct. Sorry, Bennett ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Shickler" To: "Bennett Levin" ; ; "PRR-Talk" Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1 assignments > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bennett Levin" > To: ; "PRR-Talk" > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 11:34 AM > Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1 assignments > > > > Is it really an Urban Ledgend that Eric and I have one stored under tarps > at > > Fairhill................MP83 NEC > > > > > > Bennett > > ... and you're planning another excursion up the P&E with it. > > > drool > > > --- > Jerry Shickler > Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: > http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:29:01 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Former P&E, decline and fall Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:36:39 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Droege's Freight Trains and Terminals Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 13:49:09 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Arizona Rock & Mineral ballast From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <568523AC-46C2-11D8-84E8-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Arizona Rock & Mineral has been reported in the past as a supplier of ballast that represents the PRR well. Over in the Atlas Forum there are reports of customers receiving shipments with notes that they are closing down operations and that if you want any more of the product you had better order immediately. FYI. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] RS1, GP7 question Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:59:55 +0000 From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: RE: [PRR] Arizona Rock & Mineral ballast Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:25:36 +0000 >From: Jerry Britton >Subject: [PRR] Arizona Rock & Mineral ballast >Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 13:49:09 -0500 From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] RS1, GP7 question Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:39:43 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Norm, From what i know i can tell you that some were capable of passenger service, usually commuter runs. I do know that RS1 5906 was equiped for passenger service on the Chesapeake Region and usually was the power for the Parkton Local. GP7's usually had a pair of "torpedo tubes" on the top of the hood. AFAIK some were assigned to the Philadelphia Region for commuter service. While on the subject of commuter engines, RS3 8445 usually referred to as the "hammerhead" had a tall shorthood to accomidate a steam boiler for commuter service on the Northern Division. Hope this helps. -John PS-The book Pennsy Diesels A to Z helps a lot. Norm wrote: Did these engines have boilers? Were they capable of passenger service? Thank you ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] RS1, GP7 question Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:59:11 -0500 Some RS-1s and some GP-7s had steam generators. Not all were equipped. Only selected units purchased to pull passenger trains. -----Original Message----- From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 3:00 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] RS1, GP7 question Did these engines have boilers? Were they capable of passenger service? Thank you ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01C3DAB7.5A590680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
Some=20 RS-1s and some GP-7s had steam generators.  Not all were = equipped. =20 Only selected units purchased to pull passenger = trains.
-----Original Message-----
From: = ndbprr@att.net=20 [mailto:ndbprr@att.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 = 3:00=20 PM
To: PRR-Talk
Subject: [PRR] RS1, GP7=20 question

Did these engines have boilers?  Were they = capable of=20 passenger service? 
Thank=20 = you

--------------------------------------------------------------= ---------
For=20 assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

<= /P>

------=_NextPart_000_0058_01C3DAB7.5A590680-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] RS1, GP7 question Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:02:49 -0500 8445, the hammerhead was NOT used in commuter service. It spent almost its entire life as a helper on Keating Summit out of Emporium PA northward towards Olean and Buffalo. On occasion it subbed for the ailing E-8 on the Emporium to Erie daily passenger train. It had its monthly inspections done at Renovo and dailys at Emporium enginehouse which was closed down in the early 1960s. -----Original Message----- From: John Frantz [mailto:johnf2384@suscom.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 3:40 PM To: ndbprr@att.net Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] RS1, GP7 question Norm, From what i know i can tell you that some were capable of passenger service, usually commuter runs. I do know that RS1 5906 was equiped for passenger service on the Chesapeake Region and usually was the power for the Parkton Local. GP7's usually had a pair of "torpedo tubes" on the top of the hood. AFAIK some were assigned to the Philadelphia Region for commuter service. While on the subject of commuter engines, RS3 8445 usually referred to as the "hammerhead" had a tall shorthood to accomidate a steam boiler for commuter service on the Northern Division. Hope this helps. -John PS-The book Pennsy Diesels A to Z helps a lot. Norm wrote: Did these engines have boilers? Were they capable of passenger service? Thank you ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01C3DAB7.DC55D9B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
8445,=20 the hammerhead was NOT used in commuter service.  It spent almost = its=20 entire life as a helper on Keating Summit out of Emporium PA northward = towards=20 Olean and Buffalo.  On occasion it subbed for the ailing E-8 on the = Emporium to Erie daily passenger train.  It had its monthly = inspections=20 done at Renovo and dailys at Emporium enginehouse which was closed down = in the=20 early 1960s.
-----Original Message-----
From: John = Frantz=20 [mailto:johnf2384@suscom.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, = 2004=20 3:40 PM
To: ndbprr@att.net
Cc:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: Re: [PRR] RS1, GP7=20 question

Norm,

 From what i know i can tell you = that some=20 were capable of
passenger service, usually commuter runs. I do know = that
RS1 5906 was equiped for passenger service on = the
Chesapeake Region=20 and usually was the power for the
Parkton Local. GP7's usually had = a pair=20 of "torpedo tubes"
on the top of the hood. AFAIK some were assigned = to=20 the
Philadelphia Region for commuter service. While on = the
subject of=20 commuter engines, RS3 8445 usually referred to
as the "hammerhead" = had a=20 tall shorthood to accomidate a
steam boiler for commuter service on = the=20 Northern
Division.

Hope this helps.
-John

PS-The = book=20 Pennsy Diesels A to Z helps a lot.


Norm wrote:
Did these = engines=20 have boilers?  Were they capable of
passenger = service? 
Thank=20 = you

--------------------------------------------------------------= ---------
For=20 assistance with this list, please visit
http://lists.dsop.com.

--------= ---------------------------------------------------------------
For=20 assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

<= /P>

------=_NextPart_000_0061_01C3DAB7.DC55D9B0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] RS1, GP7 question Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:03:05 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bill, I recalled seeing a picture somewhere with a string of passenger equipment behind it. As to whether it was in "commuter serivce" in the picture is something I do not know. -John Bill wrote: 8445, the hammerhead was NOT used in commuter service. It spent almost its entire life as a helper on Keating Summit out of Emporium PA northward towards Olean and Buffalo. On occasion it subbed for the ailing E-8 on the Emporium to Erie daily passenger train. It had its monthly inspections done at Renovo and dailys at Emporium enginehouse which was closed down in the early 1960s. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] RS1, GP7 question Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:23:30 -0500 The picture you saw was (mine) pulling Buffalo to Harrisburg passenger train 570 after the normally assigned E8 had crapped out along the way. See Trains Mag Jan. 2004 Page 66. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bill Volkmer Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 4:03 PM To: 'John Frantz'; ndbprr@att.net Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] RS1, GP7 question 8445, the hammerhead was NOT used in commuter service. It spent almost its entire life as a helper on Keating Summit out of Emporium PA northward towards Olean and Buffalo. On occasion it subbed for the ailing E-8 on the Emporium to Erie daily passenger train. It had its monthly inspections done at Renovo and dailys at Emporium enginehouse which was closed down in the early 1960s. -----Original Message----- From: John Frantz [mailto:johnf2384@suscom.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 3:40 PM To: ndbprr@att.net Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] RS1, GP7 question Norm, From what i know i can tell you that some were capable of passenger service, usually commuter runs. I do know that RS1 5906 was equiped for passenger service on the Chesapeake Region and usually was the power for the Parkton Local. GP7's usually had a pair of "torpedo tubes" on the top of the hood. AFAIK some were assigned to the Philadelphia Region for commuter service. While on the subject of commuter engines, RS3 8445 usually referred to as the "hammerhead" had a tall shorthood to accomidate a steam boiler for commuter service on the Northern Division. Hope this helps. -John PS-The book Pennsy Diesels A to Z helps a lot. Norm wrote: Did these engines have boilers? Were they capable of passenger service? Thank you ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C3DABA.BFEB0A90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
The=20 picture you saw was (mine) pulling Buffalo to Harrisburg passenger train = 570=20 after the normally assigned E8 had crapped out along the way.  See = Trains=20 Mag Jan. 2004 Page 66.
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bill=20 Volkmer
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 4:03 = PM
To:=20 'John Frantz'; ndbprr@att.net
Cc:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: RE: [PRR] RS1, GP7=20 question

8445, the hammerhead was NOT used in commuter service.  = It spent=20 almost its entire life as a helper on Keating Summit out of Emporium = PA=20 northward towards Olean and Buffalo.  On occasion it subbed for = the=20 ailing E-8 on the Emporium to Erie daily passenger train.  It had = its=20 monthly inspections done at Renovo and dailys at Emporium enginehouse = which=20 was closed down in the early 1960s.
-----Original Message-----
From: = John Frantz=20 [mailto:johnf2384@suscom.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January = 14, 2004=20 3:40 PM
To: ndbprr@att.net
Cc:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: Re: [PRR] RS1, GP7=20 question

Norm,

 From what i know i can tell you = that some=20 were capable of
passenger service, usually commuter runs. I do = know=20 that
RS1 5906 was equiped for passenger service on = the
Chesapeake=20 Region and usually was the power for the
Parkton Local. GP7's = usually had=20 a pair of "torpedo tubes"
on the top of the hood. AFAIK some were = assigned to the
Philadelphia Region for commuter service. While = on=20 the
subject of commuter engines, RS3 8445 usually referred = to
as the=20 "hammerhead" had a tall shorthood to accomidate a
steam boiler = for=20 commuter service on the Northern
Division.

Hope this=20 helps.
-John

PS-The book Pennsy Diesels A to Z helps a=20 lot.


Norm wrote:
Did these engines have boilers?  = Were=20 they capable of
passenger service? 
Thank=20 = you

--------------------------------------------------------------= ---------
For=20 assistance with this list, please visit
http://lists.dsop.com.

--------= ---------------------------------------------------------------
For=20 assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

<= /P>

------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C3DABA.BFEB0A90-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:50:28 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1 assignments X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-5,7-41 From: Michael E Allen Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: At Fairhill? I thought you had it hidden under the Newtown Bypass. After all the Phila. Newtown & NY was briefly PRR. MEA On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:34:59 -0800 "Bennett Levin" writes: > Is it really an Urban Ledgend that Eric and I have one stored under > tarps at > Fairhill................MP83 NEC > > > Bennett > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "PRR-Talk" > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 8:25 AM > Subject: [PRR] T-1 assignments > > > > Is there any chance a T1 could have been used on the PRSL runs? > That's > about > > the only way I am going to have to justify one of the beasts > unless I use > > some other figment of someones imagination for a reason for one to > be on > the > > corridor in North philadelphia. > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit > http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 13:58:11 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Former P&E, decline and fall From: "Jim Hawk" Subject: Re: [PRR] Droege's Freight Trains and Terminals Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:02:13 -0500 >From: robert netzlof >Subject: Re: [PRR] Droege's Freight Trains and Terminals >Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:36:39 -0800 (PST) From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] RS1, GP7 question Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:43:21 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The Valpo dummies were sometimes pulled by nondyamic brake GP7s with steam generators and air tanks on the roof to allow more room for larger water tanks under body. I have had an old Atlas (Kato mechanism) GP7 around for an eternity to add the antennas and the tanks (which kit I also have) to duplicate it. But I would have to modify the underframe to satisfy any rivet counters out there. Those first GP7s may have also had dual controls. I am in my usual lazy mode of not looking these things up, Norm, so take my memory with a grain of salt. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 1:59 PM Subject: [PRR] RS1, GP7 question > Did these engines have boilers? Were they capable of passenger service? > Thank you > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:59:31 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] PRR photos and drawings in the 1953 CBC (freight) Further Message-Id: <557950DE-4700-11D8-B1D3-000A9570A806@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Broadway Limited M1's Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:12:56 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hope those who have ordered both have enjoyed their time with the T1's... cause the M1's are coming! I spoke with BLI this evening and was told that the M1's should be ready to ship (to dealers) in about 10 days. In a way it's counterproductive for modelers... the announcements were spaced out nicely, but then you get T1's in early January, M1's in later January, E7's in March, NW2's, SW7's, and J1's in late spring. A bit too much to digest at one time! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:12:32 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Altoona museum news From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:45:34 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/14/04 In a message dated 1/14/04 12:33:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: Youngwood First Gravity Hump? > From: "Tom Hayden" > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:36:44 -0500 > > > >Rick, > > There is also a Linwood yard in Cleveland, the southwest side, near the > airport, about this size. It was a NYC, then Conrail, now NS. But I do not > think it had/has a hump, but I could be wrong. Are you sure this is not the > Linwood referred to in the book? > > Tom Hayden > > >3. Linwood OH is a Cincinnati suburb next to Undercliff Yard. Wherever > the > >tabulated Linwood was, it humped westbound and had a 656 car bowl. > Tom, There's absolutely no way of telling -- the table references neither state nor railroad nor nearby city. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_cf.317a787.2d3766de_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 1/14/04 12:33:20= PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:


Subject: Re: Youngwood First Gr= avity Hump?
From: "Tom Hayden" <thayden@keithley.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:36:44 -0500


>Rick,

There is also a Linwood yard in Cleveland, the southwest side, near the
airport, about this size. It was a NYC, then Conrail, now NS. But I do not <= BR> think it had/has a hump, but I could be wrong. Are you sure this is not the=20=
Linwood referred to in the book?

Tom Hayden

>3.  Linwood OH is a Cincinnati suburb next to Undercliff Yard. = ; Wherever the
>tabulated Linwood was, it humped westbound and had a 656 car bowl.


Tom,

There's absolutely no way of telling -- the table references neither state n= or railroad nor nearby city.

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_cf.317a787.2d3766de_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] RS1, GP7 question Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:29:28 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Let me add a little GP-7 info to Bob's reply, using Withers Vol. 8 as my source. Only 8551, 8552, and 8553 had the air tanks mounted on top of the long hood. PRR required that these engines have cab signals; the electronic boxes for this system were installed in the short hood on GP-7's which were required to have them, but with the steam generator installation for passenger ops, there was no room. Obviously, they settled on mounting them where the crosswise air tanks were mounted below the frame and moved the tanks to the roof. Other GP-7's which had steam generator equipment, but no cab signals and thus no torpedo tubes, were 8500, 8501, and 8583 - 8587. Fuel capacity of the passenger engines was reduced compared to their freight counter parts because the water tank was carried adjacent to the fuel tanks. From a modeler's perspective it makes no difference. Except for the water fillers located over the second slot from the front on the skirts, of course. Hopefully, I avoided any rivet counting. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 1:59 PM Subject: [PRR] RS1, GP7 question > Did these engines have boilers? Were they capable of passenger service? > Thank you > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 23:40:05 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] NP Vista dome -- Mixing it up on the South Wind In a message dated 1/13/04 3:39:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > Randolph Harrison wrote: > > >I believe I already know the answer to this, but, I figured verification > was always good. Is my impression correct that the PRR had no vista-dome type > passenger coaches on their roster? > > > Note that, during the 1959-60 winter season, the South Wind carried a > Chicago-Miami VistaDome sleeper with 4 Roomettes, 4 Duplex rooms and 4 > Double bedrooms. What railroad supplied these cars? > > Richard Wallis Northern Pacific (also other years in the early and mid Sixties). It ran in NP colors on the South Wind, but I'm not really sure if PRR was the leasee here. Need I point out it was a winter season lease, because winter traffic was low on the NP's snowy route. Remember that by that time the Wind was a mixture of PRR tuscan, ACL stainless, and FEC stainless. The original immaculate sets (ACL and PRR) began to be mixed together almost right away, according to photos shown by the Louisville local fans. Funny thing about this is that L&N was the link between PRR and ACL; our local interest is that L&N took the train over from PRR at Louisville Union Station. But L&N contributed no cars to the train -- L&N baggages are possible, but I'd have trouble finding evidence. BTW, found a picture today of L&N E units on a southbound South Wind in Louisville Union Station. Of course, L&N power (295 and 277) were normal in days of steam, but these E-7's must have been substitute power for ailing PRR E's. Returning to the original thread, I think most PRR fans would say Vista Domes and catenary don't mix... that's at least one reason PRR didn't roster 'Domes. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 23:40:05 EST Subject: [PRR] NP Vista dome -- Mixing it up on the South Wind In a message dated 1/13/04 3:39:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > Randolph Harrison wrote: > > >I believe I already know the answer to this, but, I figured verification > was always good. Is my impression correct that the PRR had no vista-dome type > passenger coaches on their roster? > > > Note that, during the 1959-60 winter season, the South Wind carried a > Chicago-Miami VistaDome sleeper with 4 Roomettes, 4 Duplex rooms and 4 > Double bedrooms. What railroad supplied these cars? > > Richard Wallis Northern Pacific (also other years in the early and mid Sixties). It ran in NP colors on the South Wind, but I'm not really sure if PRR was the leasee here. Need I point out it was a winter season lease, because winter traffic was low on the NP's snowy route. Remember that by that time the Wind was a mixture of PRR tuscan, ACL stainless, and FEC stainless. The original immaculate sets (ACL and PRR) began to be mixed together almost right away, according to photos shown by the Louisville local fans. Funny thing about this is that L&N was the link between PRR and ACL; our local interest is that L&N took the train over from PRR at Louisville Union Station. But L&N contributed no cars to the train -- L&N baggages are possible, but I'd have trouble finding evidence. BTW, found a picture today of L&N E units on a southbound South Wind in Louisville Union Station. Of course, L&N power (295 and 277) were normal in days of steam, but these E-7's must have been substitute power for ailing PRR E's. Returning to the original thread, I think most PRR fans would say Vista Domes and catenary don't mix... that's at least one reason PRR didn't roster 'Domes. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_105.3da760db.2d3773a5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 1/13/04 3:39:46=20= AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes:


Randolph Harrison wrote:

>I believe I already know the answer to this, but, I figured verification= was always good. Is my impression correct that the PRR had no vista-dome ty= pe passenger coaches on their roster?
>
Note that, during the 1959-60 winter season, the South Wind carried a
Chicago-Miami VistaDome sleeper with 4 Roomettes, 4 Duplex rooms and 4
Double bedrooms.  What railroad supplied these cars?

Richard Wallis


Northern Pacific (also other years in the early and mid Sixties).  It r= an in NP colors on the South Wind, but I'm not really sure if PRR was the le= asee here.  Need I point out it was a winter season lease, because wint= er traffic was low on the NP's snowy route.

Remember that by that time the Wind was a mixture of PRR tuscan, ACL stainle= ss, and FEC stainless.  The original immaculate sets (ACL and PRR) bega= n to be mixed together almost right away, according to photos shown by the L= ouisville local fans.

Funny thing about this is that L&N was the link between PRR and ACL; our= local interest is that L&N took the train over from PRR at Louisville U= nion Station.  But L&N contributed no cars to the train -- L&N=20= baggages are possible, but I'd have trouble finding evidence.

BTW, found a picture today of L&N E units on a southbound South Wind in=20= Louisville Union Station.  Of course, L&N power (295 and 277) were=20= normal in days of steam, but these E-7's must have been substitute power for= ailing PRR E's.

Returning to the original thread, I think most PRR fans would say Vista Dome= s and catenary don't mix... that's at least one reason PRR didn't roster 'Do= mes.

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_105.3da760db.2d3773a5_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] Altoona museum news Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 06:25:24 -0500 To: robert netzlof X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Jan 14, 2004, at 10:12 PM, robert netzlof wrote: > An item on WTAJ's web site at: > > http://www.wtajtv.com/ > > says the museum is seeking funds from the county's hotel tax and that > the museum recently defaulted on a 227 kilobuck loan. Not good. I thought I had a good idea for the museum, but it turns out someone else is doing it. Every Christmas my kids enjoy sitting down and reading "The Polar Express". In this classic story, a boy travels to the North Pole on Christmas eve on a steam train. Since there are "Hollywood types" involved in the museum, by idea was to do a live action movie of the book, pulling the train with #1361. Then market the museum as the "Home of the Polar Express". I thought it was a great idea! Then my wife returned from taking my kids to the movie theater over the holidays. They saw the trailer for the movie -- due out November 2004 -- as an animated version with Tom Hanks as the conductor. Oh, well! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] (PRR)Imperial Models Q2 Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:28:49 -0500 >From: "Larry Reynolds" >Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] (PRR)Imperial Models Q2 >Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:53:25 -0500 >From: "Sam Vastano" >Subject: [PRR-Modeling] (PRR)Imperial Models Q2 From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Lanes Trains Custom Painting is open for Business (:->) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:44:06 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, We are already in the third week of the New Year. Lanes Trains was opened for business full time at 4:01 PM on 1-2-04 when I quit my job. My first job was decaling and applying Dullcoat on 30 O Scale PRR H21a hoppers for Rich Yoder Models. http://www.richyodermodels.com The job was completed 10 days later. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/O_Scale_H21a.jpg I don't know how to make a website, but I put something together here. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/Lanes_Trains.doc Hopefully you all have Word to open it. I currently have openings in 2 weeks so I can turn your piece right around for you. This is paying the bills right now, so I can't procrastinate here! Please reply to billlane@comcast.net with what you want done. Important info to include is what scale, and if you already have the decals or dry transfers, or even if they are available. Do you want weathering? If it is not a PRR piece, a photo would be nice to have for quoting. If it is a locomotive, do you want DCC and sound? Include any other info that you feel is important to you in getting the model finished exactly as you want. Thank You, Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:05:37 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1 assignments Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Is Elvis going to be along for the ride as well? Jim McDaniel, Delmarva, where T-1s never were ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:54:09 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] BLI T1 uncovered Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Mine handled 15 cars up to 1.5% without any trouble. It slipped its drivers (just like a T1!) at 2% (+/-) on a long grade with 36"r turn. Then on the flat it broke its universal. My dealer (Charles Ro) came through like a champ! They exchanged the T1 for a new one. That's why Charlie gets my business. Those of us in the Boston area are lucky to live near a hobby shop like that. Regards, Andy Miller ======================================================= Bill Weiss wrote: > I am running my T-1 on a test loop of Kato 24" radius track. It is > pulling 8 of the new Walthers Budd cars, a Rivarosi RPO, and 8 > Walthers express reefers, and although the track is flat (except for > a small bump over a split) the T hasn't even broken a sweat! > > Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:00:32 -0600 Subject: [PRR] T1 driver lead From: Bruce Smith Message-Id: <90D3948D-476B-11D8-B127-000A958DAD46@mail.auburn.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Good Morning, Did the T1 conform to the PRR left hand lead rule for driver quartering? TIA, Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:29:15 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Altoona museum news X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 46 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In a message dated 1/14/04 9:20:42 PM, wb3iqe@rocketmail.com writes: << An item on WTAJ's web site at: http://www.wtajtv.com/ says the museum is seeking funds from the county's hotel tax and that the museum recently defaulted on a 227 kilobuck loan. >> ************* I've not been following the Museum management issue closely but, were I on the county commission that allocates the hotel tax revenues, I'd want to see how and on what the Museum spent the money they had before I authorized any public money. Public money is seldom spent as wisely as private money. Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:52:30 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] Altoona museum news From: "L. Heintz" Subject: [PRR] Lines West Fans Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:10:39 -0500 Recently some of you were commenting on the lack of info on the Lines = West. A copy of the Pennsylvania Lines-West of Pittsburgh ,Vol. V, 1899 ; is = up for auction on ebay. It looks like a great source of predecessor = info. Item # 221721851 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C3DB60.978F4C40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Recently some of you were commenting on = the lack of=20 info on the Lines West.
A copy of the Pennsylvania Lines-West = of=20 Pittsburgh ,Vol. V, 1899 ; is up for auction on ebay. It looks like = a great=20 source of predecessor info.
Item # 221721851
 
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C3DB60.978F4C40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:05:33 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Altoona museum news Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:26:09 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Altoona museum news From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, January 15, 2004, at 01:05 PM, robert netzlof wrote: > Without agreeing or disagreeing with your comment, I would note that, > as I recall, the act authorizing a county hotel tax in PA is intended > to provide funds to promote tourism. So, the request would seem to be > in accord with the intent of the act. Bob, you are correct. I see this in Harrisburg, and it's come up in the news in Lancaster regarding construction of a new convention center. > > More worrisome is the note about having defaulted on a substantial > loan. Agreed. WTAJ wrote "The museum needs to find new sources of money or face shutting down. Last month, the museum said it had defaulted on a 227-thousand dollar loan." I reiterate, it is their words suggesting "shutting down", not mine. BUT, if the museum were to shut down, I wonder what would happen to Horseshoe Curve? The tourist operation is run by the museum, I believe, under contract with the Feds. I suspect that there would be some down time until the Feds could get their own staff -- or another subcontractor -- re-established to reopen. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Lines West Fans Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:08:49 -0500 Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:13:57 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve etc. Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry Britton wrote: > if the museum were to shut down, I wonder what would happen to > Horseshoe Curve? The tourist operation is run by the museum, I > believe, under contract with the Feds. I suspect that there would be > some down time until the Feds could get their own staff -- or another > subcontractor -- re-established to reopen. Jerry and all: The federal government has no continuing involvement. The National Park Service put some federal capital money into the construction of the visitor center and the site improvements, but does not have any ownership stake. The land is still owned by the railroad, and a long-term lease/usage agreement exists between the museum and CR-now-NS. The museum is the sole operator/administrator of the site. If it closes, NPS does not have staff, money, or legal standing to step in without some kind of emergency provision. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:20:41 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: Horseshoe Curve etc. From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, January 15, 2004, at 03:13 PM, Dan Cupper wrote: > The federal government has no continuing involvement. The National > Park Service put some federal capital money into the construction of > the visitor center and the site improvements, but does not have any > ownership stake. The land is still owned by the railroad, and a > long-term lease/usage agreement exists between the museum and > CR-now-NS. The museum is the sole operator/administrator of the site. > If it closes, NPS does not have staff, money, or legal standing to > step in without some kind of emergency provision. I didn't realize that. Interesting to know. So, does the railroad own all the way down to the road then? Just curious. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:27:50 -0800 (PST) From: ealauterbach@earthlink.net Subject: [PRR] Bowser N8 X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Any word on the Bowser N8's? No pictures on the Bowser website yet, but says they will be out this month. Eric Lauterbach ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve etc. Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 20:31:01 +0000 Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:43:27 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser N8 From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, January 15, 2004, at 03:27 PM, ealauterbach@earthlink.net wrote: > Any word on the Bowser N8's? No pictures on the Bowser website yet, > but says they will be out this month. They're close. I've had a test shot in my hands for well over six weeks now. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:46:39 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve etc. Norm and all: I don't know. Currently, the practice is for the gates to be opened after business hours. As an offhand guess, I suppose what you suggest would depend on whether the museum's liability insurance were paid up. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. ndbprr@att.net wrote: >So if I interpret correctly opening the stairs to those of us still capable >of knowing how to use them would not be an option. > > >>Jerry Britton wrote: >> >> >> >>> if the museum were to shut down, I wonder what would happen to >>>Horseshoe Curve? The tourist operation is run by the museum, I >>>believe, under contract with the Feds. I suspect that there would be >>>some down time until the Feds could get their own staff -- or another >>>subcontractor -- re-established to reopen. >>> >>> >>Jerry and all: >> >>The federal government has no continuing involvement. The National Park >>Service put some federal capital money into the construction of the >>visitor center and the site improvements, but does not have any >>ownership stake. The land is still owned by the railroad, and a >>long-term lease/usage agreement exists between the museum and CR-now-NS. >>The museum is the sole operator/administrator of the site. If it closes, >>NPS does not have staff, money, or legal standing to step in without >>some kind of emergency provision. >> >>Dan Cupper >>Harrisburg, Pa. >> >> >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. >> >> > > > --------------050407090007070402070902 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Norm and all:

I don't know. Currently, the practice is for the gates to be opened after business hours. As an offhand guess, I suppose what you suggest would depend on whether the museum's liability insurance were paid up.

Dan Cupper
Harrisburg, Pa.



ndbprr@att.net wrote:
So if I interpret correctly opening the stairs to those of us still capable 
of knowing how to use them would not be an option.
  
Jerry Britton wrote:

    
 if the museum were to shut down, I wonder what would happen to 
Horseshoe Curve? The tourist operation is run by the museum, I 
believe, under contract with the Feds. I suspect that there would be 
some down time until the Feds could get their own staff -- or another 
subcontractor -- re-established to reopen. 
      
Jerry and all:

The federal government has no continuing involvement. The National Park 
Service put some federal capital money into the construction of the 
visitor center and the site improvements, but does not have any 
ownership stake. The land is still owned by the railroad, and a 
long-term lease/usage agreement exists between the museum and CR-now-NS. 
The museum is the sole operator/administrator of the site. If it closes, 
NPS does not have staff, money, or legal standing to step in without 
some kind of emergency provision.

Dan Cupper
Harrisburg, Pa.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

--------------050407090007070402070902-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ray Breyer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve etc. Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:44:07 -0800 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <011520042031.13329.1cc8@att.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I always thought that you could use the stairs when the park entrance was closed. I've been up there several times after closing, and I've never had any of Altoona's finest chase me off. Ray Breyer -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of ndbprr@att.net Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 12:31 PM To: PRR-Talk; Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve etc. So if I interpret correctly opening the stairs to those of us still capable of knowing how to use them would not be an option. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 16:10:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] PRR Coaling Tower MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, I have the privaledge (or depending on how you look at it, the horror) of painting that great looking PRR Concrete Coaling Tower that was imported by Overland some time back. Upon openng the box, I wondered what I got myself into. Pretty intimidating. Anyone ever paint one? Does it come apart in sub assemblies for easier handling? I havn't done anything yet. I supose the first step is to unscrew it from the base. Looks like one has to airbrush everything first with Concrete color then go back and hand brush all the steel work. Boy, looks like this is fun. Should have this with me for quite some time. Any pointers is appreciated.......Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RBurg74133@aol.com Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 17:28:57 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] NP Vista dome -- Mixing it up on the South Wind ADDENDUM According to a copy of the consist book. They were still running during the winter of 64/65. They were from an order for 10 cars built by BUDD in 1954? to plan 9535 Lot 9669-141 and included the 24 rooms mentioned and 24 seats in the dome. They were split between CB&Q, SP&S and NP Ray Burghart SPF INFO from CAR NAMES NUMBERS AND CONSISTS By WAYNER -------------------------------1074205737 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
 According to a copy of the co= nsist book. They were still running during the winter of 64/65. They were fr= om an order for 10 cars built by BUDD in 1954? to plan 9535 Lot 9669-14= 1 and included the 24 rooms mentioned and 24 seats in the dome. They were sp= lit between CB&Q, SP&S and NP 
Ray Burghart SPF
INFO from CAR NAMES NUMBERS AND CONS= ISTS By WAYNER
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
-------------------------------1074205737-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 17:31:48 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Altoona museum news X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 46 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In a message dated 1/14/04 9:20:42 PM, wb3iqe@rocketmail.com writes: << An item on WTAJ's web site at: http://www.wtajtv.com/ says the museum is seeking funds from the county's hotel tax and that the museum recently defaulted on a 227 kilobuck loan. >> ************************ The Museum's IRS form 990 shows for the Fiscal Year Ending 2001, Revenue of $1,391,367, Expenses of $1,707,798, Assets $14,901,303, and Liabilities of $296,653. There is a press release dated May, 2003 that indicates the McNit was still Executive Director. Executive Director Cessna apparently took over some time in mid-2003. The loan to the RI bank was short a $36,000 payment. It was collateralized with the gallery in which the Lau (sp?) photos are stored/displayed. That seems like a lot of revenue (in 2001) to default on just 36K. Anyone in the area might want to drop in on the Museum's principal business office, during normal business hours, and ask to see the most recent IRS form 990. The Museum is obliged to show you this record on request, and provide a copy (at a reasonable per page charge) upon request. The FY 2003 is almost certainly not available but the FY 2002 should be. I, for one, would certainly like to see what they've been spending all that revenue on. It is unlikely that any foundation would provide a grant without being sure that the new cash was being used for a core Museum purpose. If Mr. Cessna monitors this list, perhaps he'd like to post the revenue and spending details for FY 2003. Some members may be able to suggest foundations that are especially interested in preserving the spirit of American railroading. Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: [PRR] [FS-kind of] BLI freight cars... Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 17:13:07 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hey all, Ok, so Broadway Limited's only running the PRR painted N&W H2a hoppers in six packs and the K7a stock cars w/o sound in four packs and I only need one or two of each. Does anyone else want less than a full set? Want to split a set with me? I have a set of each on order. If so, e-mail me and we can work out the details! Thanks! Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: [PRR] T1's... BLI vs Sunset? Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 17:02:55 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi guys, Any comments on how the BLI T1 compares with the Sunset model? I have a Sunset model and was wondering if i shouldn't trade it in for a BLI model or if it's worth keeping? Does anyone have both? How do they stack up on accuracy and running quality & pulling power? (Ignoring the sound of course!) Paint & lettering isn't really an issue to me either... Thanks! Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] NP Vista dome -- Mixing it up on the South Wind ADDENDUM Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 17:52:49 -0600 I apologize if this has been covered ((I have been tuning in and out of = email this week) but it should be pointed out that the NP domes did not = run every winter on the South Wind during the period, i.e. there was a = gap between the 1959-60 winter season and the last hurrah in 1964-65 = season. I have lots of video of these cars at Hammond, IN, on Amtrak's Capitol = Limited in the 90's. As I pointed out in a private email to Richard = Wallis, NKP Car Co has the sides. My last contact with them, we were = waiting to see how they match up with the new Walthers cars. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RBurg74133@aol.com=20 To: RickTipton@aol.com ; prr-talk@dsop.com ; JKTRR@MSN.COM=20 Cc: pRR@Yahoogroups.com ; PennsyWest@egroups.com=20 Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] NP Vista dome -- Mixing it up on the South Wind = ADDENDUM According to a copy of the consist book. They were still running = during the winter of 64/65. They were from an order for 10 cars built by = BUDD in 1954? to plan 9535 Lot 9669-141 and included the 24 rooms = mentioned and 24 seats in the dome. They were split between CB&Q, SP&S = and NP=20 Ray Burghart SPF INFO from CAR NAMES NUMBERS AND CONSISTS By WAYNER ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C3DB90.64157FD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
I apologize if this has been covered ((I have been = tuning in=20 and out of email this week) but it should be pointed out that the NP = domes did=20 not run every winter on the South Wind during the period, i.e.  = there was a=20 gap between the 1959-60 winter season and the last hurrah in 1964-65=20 season.
 
I have lots of video of these cars at Hammond, IN, = on Amtrak's=20 Capitol Limited in the 90's. As I pointed out in a private email to = Richard=20 Wallis, NKP Car Co has the sides.  My last contact with them, we = were=20 waiting to see how they match up with the new Walthers = cars.
 
Bob Zoeller
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 RBurg74133@aol.com
To: RickTipton@aol.com ; prr-talk@dsop.com=20 ; JKTRR@MSN.COM
Cc: pRR@Yahoogroups.com ; PennsyWest@egroups.com =
Sent: Thursday, January 15, = 2004 4:28=20 PM
Subject: Re: [PRR] NP Vista = dome --=20 Mixing it up on the South Wind ADDENDUM

 According to a copy = of the=20 consist book. They were still running during the winter of 64/65. They = were=20 from an order for 10 cars built by BUDD in 1954? to plan 9535 Lot = 9669-141 and included the 24 rooms mentioned and 24 seats in the dome. = They=20 were split between CB&Q, SP&S and NP 
Ray Burghart SPF
INFO from CAR NAMES NUMBERS = AND CONSISTS=20 By WAYNER
------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C3DB90.64157FD0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Nesbitt" Subject: [PRR] NEC location question Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:50:45 -0500 Question for those on the list. Along the NEC through Philadelphia, somewhere near the N. Philly station there is an old industrial complex that has outside of it an old Conrail locomotive, an old Amtrak E unit and I think an old heavy weight coach or baggage car. There is alot of trackage here, almost a small yard. Riding past northbound a little while back one of the big doors on a large building was open and I thought I seen a restored locomotive inside. I only caught a glimpse as I was looking out the other side of the commuter train and just glanced over. Can anyone tell me the address of big building, what it used to be and how I can visit here on foot ? Thanks Kenny ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C3DC0D.D5319D70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
Question for those=20 on the list.
Along = the NEC=20 through Philadelphia, somewhere near the N. Philly station there is an = old=20 industrial complex that has outside of it an old Conrail locomotive, an = old=20 Amtrak E unit and I think an old heavy weight coach or baggage = car.  =20 There is alot of trackage here, almost a small yard.
Riding = past=20 northbound a little while back one of the big doors on a large building = was open=20 and I thought I seen a restored locomotive inside.  I only caught a = glimpse=20 as I was looking out the other side of the commuter train and just = glanced=20 over.
Can = anyone tell me=20 the address of big building, what it used to be and how I can visit here = on foot=20 ?
 
Thanks
 
Kenny
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C3DC0D.D5319D70-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:06:43 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] NEC location question From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, January 16, 2004, at 08:50 AM, Ken Nesbitt wrote: > Question for those on the list. > Along the NEC through Philadelphia, somewhere near the N. Philly=20 > station there is an old industrial complex that has outside of it an=20= > old Conrail locomotive, an old Amtrak E unit and I think an old heavy=20= > weight coach or baggage car.=A0=A0 There is alot of trackage here, = almost=20 > a small yard. > Riding past northbound a little while back one of the big doors on a=20= > large building was open and I thought I seen a restored locomotive=20 > inside.=A0 I only caught a glimpse as I was looking out the other side=20= > of the commuter train and just glanced over. > Can anyone tell me the address of big building, what it used to be and=20= > how I can visit here on foot ? > Guys, is this Juniata Terminal? I've never been there, but the description of the equipment is=20 plausible. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] NEC location question Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:29:29 -0500 It is Juniata Terminal home of the E8's Warrior Ridge and PRR 120. It = is an old PRR Freight Station. It is not in the best section of town. (to = put it mildly) Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 9:07 AM To: Ken Nesbitt Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] NEC location question On Friday, January 16, 2004, at 08:50 AM, Ken Nesbitt wrote: > Question for those on the list. > Along the NEC through Philadelphia, somewhere near the N. Philly=20 > station there is an old industrial complex that has outside of it an=20 > old Conrail locomotive, an old Amtrak E unit and I think an old heavy = > weight coach or baggage car.=A0=A0 There is alot of trackage here, = almost=20 > a small yard. > Riding past northbound a little while back one of the big doors on a=20 > large building was open and I thought I seen a restored locomotive=20 > inside.=A0 I only caught a glimpse as I was looking out the other = side=20 > of the commuter train and just glanced over. > Can anyone tell me the address of big building, what it used to be = and=20 > how I can visit here on foot ? > Guys, is this Juniata Terminal? I've never been there, but the description of the equipment is=20 plausible. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3DC3D.265B0180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: [PRR] NEC location question

It is Juniata Terminal home of the E8's Warrior Ridge = and PRR 120.  It is an old PRR Freight Station.  It is not in = the best section of town. (to put it mildly)

Chris Chany

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com]=
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 9:07 AM
To: Ken Nesbitt
Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: Re: [PRR] NEC location question


On Friday, January 16, 2004, at 08:50  AM, Ken = Nesbitt wrote:

> Question for those on the list.
> Along the NEC through Philadelphia, somewhere = near the N. Philly
> station there is an old industrial complex that = has outside of it an
> old Conrail locomotive, an old Amtrak E unit = and I think an old heavy
> weight coach or baggage car.=A0=A0 There is = alot of trackage here, almost
> a small yard.
> Riding past northbound a little while back one = of the big doors on a
> large building was open and I thought I seen a = restored locomotive
> inside.=A0 I only caught a glimpse as I was = looking out the other side
> of the commuter train and just glanced = over.
> Can anyone tell me the address of big building, = what it used to be and
> how I can visit here on foot ?
>
Guys, is this Juniata Terminal?

I've never been there, but the description of the = equipment is
plausible.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF   Member, = PRRT&HS   jerry@pennsyrr.com
Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N = Scale.
"Keystone Crossings" - Home of the = "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
     http://kc.pennsyrr.com
"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad = products...
     http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com


---------------------------------------------------------------= --------
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C3DC3D.265B0180-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Nesbitt" Subject: RE: [PRR] NEC location question Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:51:52 -0500 I just looked up Juniata Terminal on the 'net, that's what it is alright http://www.trainweb.org/railpix/juniata4.html Thanks all Kenny -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Chany, Christopher Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 9:29 AM Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] NEC location question It is Juniata Terminal home of the E8's Warrior Ridge and PRR 120. It is an old PRR Freight Station. It is not in the best section of town. (to put it mildly) Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 9:07 AM To: Ken Nesbitt Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] NEC location question On Friday, January 16, 2004, at 08:50 AM, Ken Nesbitt wrote: > Question for those on the list. > Along the NEC through Philadelphia, somewhere near the N. Philly > station there is an old industrial complex that has outside of it an > old Conrail locomotive, an old Amtrak E unit and I think an old heavy > weight coach or baggage car. There is alot of trackage here, almost > a small yard. > Riding past northbound a little while back one of the big doors on a > large building was open and I thought I seen a restored locomotive > inside. I only caught a glimpse as I was looking out the other side > of the commuter train and just glanced over. > Can anyone tell me the address of big building, what it used to be and > how I can visit here on foot ? > Guys, is this Juniata Terminal? I've never been there, but the description of the equipment is plausible. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _____ This message scanned for viruses by Corecomm ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C3DC16.5ED71110 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
I just=20 looked up Juniata Terminal on the 'net, that's what it is=20 alright
http://www.trainwe= b.org/railpix/juniata4.html
 
 
Thanks all
 
Kenny
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of = Chany,=20 Christopher
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 9:29 = AM
Cc:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: RE: [PRR] NEC location=20 question

It is Juniata Terminal home of the E8's Warrior = Ridge and PRR=20 120.  It is an old PRR Freight Station.  It is not in the = best=20 section of town. (to put it mildly)

Chris Chany

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry=20 Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] =
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 9:07 AM =
To: Ken Nesbitt
Cc: = PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20
Subject: Re: [PRR] NEC location question =


On Friday, January 16, 2004, at 08:50  AM, Ken = Nesbitt=20 wrote:

> Question for those on the list. =
> Along the NEC through Philadelphia, somewhere near the = N. Philly=20
> station there is an old industrial = complex that=20 has outside of it an
> old Conrail = locomotive, an=20 old Amtrak E unit and I think an old heavy
> weight=20 coach or baggage car.   There is alot of trackage here, = almost=20
> a small yard.
> Riding=20 past northbound a little while back one of the big doors on a =
> large building was open and I thought I seen a restored = locomotive=20
> inside.  I only caught a glimpse = as I was=20 looking out the other side
> of the = commuter train=20 and just glanced over.
> Can anyone tell = me the=20 address of big building, what it used to be and
>=20 how I can visit here on foot ?
> =
Guys, is this Juniata Terminal?

I've never been there, but the description of the = equipment is=20
plausible.
-----------------------------------------------------------=20
Jerry Britton, SPF   Member,=20 PRRT&HS   jerry@pennsyrr.com
Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N = Scale.=20
"Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" = mailing=20 list!
     http://kc.pennsyrr.com=20
"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad = products...=20
     http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com


----------------------------------------------------------------= -------=20
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.=20

 
This message scanned = for viruses by=20 Corecomm=20
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C3DC16.5ED71110-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:06:48 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] BLI T1 revisited Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I took my T1 with the broken universal back to my dealer (Charles Ro, Malden MA) and they came through for me. They weren't happy, but they exchanged the loco. That's why they get my business.; Its great to have a local dealer who stocks most of what I need and is willing to order the rest and whose prices are among the best in the country. Guess I'm lucky. I put the flanged wheels on the T1 before ever trying a train this time. This substantially im proved its pulling power on the curving 2% grade. I handled my 15 car mail and express train up the grade without batting an eyelash! (A beautiful girl like this just must have eyelashes somewhere). I am a very happy camper. It is a great loco and gathered lots of oohs and aahs from the other club members. Some long time PRR detractors even said they might buy one! BTW, This new unit has made eight trips around the eleven mile course of the layout and its universal is still healthy. -- Regards, Andrew S. Miller ======================================================= ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:22:28 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI T1 revisited From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, January 16, 2004, at 10:06 AM, Andrew S. Miller wrote: > I put the flanged wheels on the T1 before ever trying a train this > time. This substantially im proved its pulling power on the curving 2% > grade. I handled my 15 car mail and express train up the grade without > batting an eyelash! Good to hear, Andy. I suspected the flanged drivers might improve pulling power -- not that it was necessarily bad before. My unit will be running in Bob Martin's op session tomorrow evening. He also has about 2% grades. I have not put the flanged drivers on (yet, anyway). ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI T1 revisited Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:11:57 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jan 2004 16:33:04.0808 (UTC) FILETIME=[6A746A80:01C3DC4E] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All Andy - can you say what the minimum radius was with the all flanged T1? Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist, Proud SPF PRRTHS #1204 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew S. Miller" To: "PRR-Talk" ; "PRR Modeling" Sent: Friday, 16 January, 2004 9:06 AM Subject: [PRR] BLI T1 revisited > I took my T1 with the broken universal back to my dealer (Charles Ro, > Malden MA) and they came through for me. They weren't happy, but they > exchanged the loco. That's why they get my business.; Its great to > have a local dealer who stocks most of what I need and is willing to > order the rest and whose prices are among the best in the country. > Guess I'm lucky. > > I put the flanged wheels on the T1 before ever trying a train this > time. This substantially im proved its pulling power on the curving 2% > grade. I handled my 15 car mail and express train up the grade without > batting an eyelash! (A beautiful girl like this just must have > eyelashes somewhere). I am a very happy camper. It is a great loco and > gathered lots of oohs and aahs from the other club members. Some long > time PRR detractors even said they might buy one! > > BTW, This new unit has made eight trips around the eleven mile course of > the layout and its universal is still healthy. > -- > Regards, > > Andrew S. Miller > > ======================================================= > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 01/02/2004 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:44:57 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI T1 revisited Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The tightest on our club is slightly under 36". And I cheated. I only flanged the front set. When it handled the 15 car train I set as my benchmark, I decided to stop there. If ain't broke, don't fix it! Regards, Andy Miller ======================================================= PennsyNut wrote: > Hi All > > Andy - can you say what the minimum radius was with the all flanged T1? > > Morgan Bilbo > Ferroequinologist, Proud SPF > PRRTHS #1204 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andrew S. Miller" > To: "PRR-Talk" ; "PRR Modeling" > > Sent: Friday, 16 January, 2004 9:06 AM > Subject: [PRR] BLI T1 revisited > > > I took my T1 with the broken universal back to my dealer (Charles Ro, > > Malden MA) and they came through for me. They weren't happy, but they > > exchanged the loco. That's why they get my business.; Its great to > > have a local dealer who stocks most of what I need and is willing to > > order the rest and whose prices are among the best in the country. > > Guess I'm lucky. > > > > I put the flanged wheels on the T1 before ever trying a train this > > time. This substantially im proved its pulling power on the curving 2% > > grade. I handled my 15 car mail and express train up the grade without > > batting an eyelash! (A beautiful girl like this just must have > > eyelashes somewhere). I am a very happy camper. It is a great loco and > > gathered lots of oohs and aahs from the other club members. Some long > > time PRR detractors even said they might buy one! > > > > BTW, This new unit has made eight trips around the eleven mile course of > > the layout and its universal is still healthy. > > -- > > Regards, > > > > Andrew S. Miller > > > > ======================================================= > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 01/02/2004 -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:11:06 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] T1's... BLI vs Sunset? From: Bruce Smith In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <5ABBB680-484F-11D8-843A-000A958DAD46@mail.auburn.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, January 15, 2004, at 04:02 PM, Rob Schoenberg wrote: > Any comments on how the BLI T1 compares with the Sunset model? Rob, I don't have the Sunset T1, but that won't stop me 1) Detail - advantage Sunset, or a tie. The level of detail on the BLI is good to excellent (I won't say outstanding because there are a number of molded on details). I don't know the specifics of the Sunset model, but it may also provide a different version than the BLI model (which is the post 1947 version). I'll provide some ideas on bringing the BLI T1 up to the detail level of some better brass engines in my TKM review. 2) Running - advantage BLI. The T1 would have to be the best Sunset ever produced to come close to the BLI T1. Smooth doesn't begin to describe it, and it is probably significantly more powerful. 3) Sound - no contest! 4) Paint and lettering - no contest! The BLI T1 has builders plates, trust plates and tender badges all picked out in gold leaf...you gonna do that on your Sunset? The best HO T1? That's easy..the last run of the Key locos, but for a complete "package" the BLI is a pretty good place to go and it is great fodder for some quick upgrades. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:06:56 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Weekly Photo Sharing Forum From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <2714FFF6-4857-11D8-B608-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: A few days ago we discussed (on PRR talk) a weekly forum to share Pennsylvania Railroad photos -- both proto and models -- akin to the Sunday Nite Foto Fun held in the Atlas N Scale Forum. Since this is the first week, I'm kicking it off early to jump start it. Hopefully it will share the success of its counterpart. Please stop by this evening, and later over the weekend, and share a shot or two, or your comments. The address is http://forum.pennsyrr.com:8010/forum/ . Look in the Pennsylvania Railroad Forum. Hope to see you there! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: [PRR] PRR FM H-16-44/FS16m Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:35:15 -0800 PRR FM H-16-44/FS16m

Hi all;

I haven't really seen any discussion on our own PRR = lists, but I was hoping that someone has seen/bought the new = FS16m/H-16-44 from Atlas, and might be open to discussing what we can = do to finish these beauties.  I just got mine, and I have to say = that, based on a limited look, they are on par with the PRR Genesis = F's!  REALLY nice!  I can't think of another offering = recently that has gotten my blood going like this one.  The color = is good (lettering is a bit dark and a bit "rounded"), the = detail is finely done, it has nice touches like the builder's plate and = trust plate, interior with painted engineer and fireman, wipers, fine = rails, and a nice mesh screen with fan underneath.  Sharp! My Red = Ball is going into the box!

It appears that we may have to mess with the = equipment box(es), install antennae and receiver, install dual beam = headlights, so it is not out-of-the-box correct, but hey, what = is?  Does anyone have any thoughts on this?  Is CalScale = going to do the antenna set?

Elden

------_=_NextPart_001_01C3DC67.DDF18100-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:43:13 -0800 (PST) From: ealauterbach@earthlink.net Subject: [PRR] 3rd Rail K4 X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Message
Sunset aka 3rd Rail has a picture of the prewar version of their upcoming K4 posted on their site. The price without sound is under $650. Not bad for an O scale brass model. My only question is whether the boiler will be more accurate than the Sunset HO k4, which was a real lemon in my opinion.
http://www.3rdrail.com
 
Eric
----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: [PRR] RE: [PRR-Modeling] PRR FM H-16-44/FS16m Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:59:32 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <90C14BFF34EC7A4F8361427C6B63129604D870@isgds01.ttisg.com> Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Elden, I was waiting for a discussion on these! They did a nice job! Did the PRR units have the sloped cab sides like the Atlas unit? I've only found 3/4 view photos so far and can't tell from them. I know this was a bone of contention with some other roads' modelers. Also, most/all of the photos I've seen of PRR units have louvers instead of the screened area in the upper-middle section of the sides. Is this a PRR retrofit or were the PRR units delivered this way? If it's a retrofit, when did they get modified? Similarly, what's the deal with the side numberboards? Atlas has them as part of the marker lights but the PRR photos I have have them further back as part of the body. Again, delivery or PRR modification? I'm hoping someone does an antenna kit, they really make the say PRR! Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: ELDEN GATWOOD [mailto:ELDEN.GATWOOD@ttisg.com] > Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 2:35 PM > To: 'PRR Talk'; PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [PRR-Modeling] PRR FM H-16-44/FS16m > > > Hi all; > > I haven't really seen any discussion on our own PRR lists, but I > was hoping > that someone has seen/bought the new FS16m/H-16-44 from Atlas, > and might be > open to discussing what we can do to finish these beauties. I just got > mine, and I have to say that, based on a limited look, they are > on par with > the PRR Genesis F's! REALLY nice! I can't think of another offering > recently that has gotten my blood going like this one. The color is good > (lettering is a bit dark and a bit "rounded"), the detail is > finely done, it > has nice touches like the builder's plate and trust plate, interior with > painted engineer and fireman, wipers, fine rails, and a nice mesh screen > with fan underneath. Sharp! My Red Ball is going into the box! > > It appears that we may have to mess with the equipment box(es), install > antennae and receiver, install dual beam headlights, so it is not > out-of-the-box correct, but hey, what is? Does anyone have any > thoughts on > this? Is CalScale going to do the antenna set? > > Elden > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Sharing and enjoying our memories and materials and methods to > better reproduce the PRR in miniature ! > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark > Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/9MtolB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR-Modeling/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > PRR-Modeling-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bennett Levin" Subject: Re: [PRR] NEC location question Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:03:19 -0800 RE: [PRR] NEC location questionThere is a lot worse in Philadelphia. we = are a class act in a classless city! ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Chany, Christopher=20 Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 6:29 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] NEC location question It is Juniata Terminal home of the E8's Warrior Ridge and PRR 120. It = is an old PRR Freight Station. It is not in the best section of town. = (to put it mildly) Chris Chany=20 -----Original Message-----=20 From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com]=20 Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 9:07 AM=20 To: Ken Nesbitt=20 Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Subject: Re: [PRR] NEC location question=20 On Friday, January 16, 2004, at 08:50 AM, Ken Nesbitt wrote:=20 > Question for those on the list.=20 > Along the NEC through Philadelphia, somewhere near the N. Philly=20 > station there is an old industrial complex that has outside of it an = > old Conrail locomotive, an old Amtrak E unit and I think an old = heavy=20 > weight coach or baggage car. There is alot of trackage here, = almost=20 > a small yard.=20 > Riding past northbound a little while back one of the big doors on a = > large building was open and I thought I seen a restored locomotive=20 > inside. I only caught a glimpse as I was looking out the other side = > of the commuter train and just glanced over.=20 > Can anyone tell me the address of big building, what it used to be = and=20 > how I can visit here on foot ?=20 >=20 Guys, is this Juniata Terminal?=20 I've never been there, but the description of the equipment is=20 plausible.=20 -----------------------------------------------------------=20 Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com=20 Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale.=20 "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!=20 http://kc.pennsyrr.com=20 "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products...=20 http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com=20 = -----------------------------------------------------------------------=20 For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C3DC28.BB502460 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: [PRR] NEC location question
There is a lot worse in Philadelphia. = we are a=20 class act in a classless city!
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Chany,=20 Christopher
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 = 6:29=20 AM
Subject: RE: [PRR] NEC location = question

It is Juniata Terminal home of the E8's Warrior = Ridge and PRR=20 120.  It is an old PRR Freight Station.  It is not in the = best=20 section of town. (to put it mildly)

Chris Chany

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry=20 Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] =
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 9:07 AM =
To: Ken Nesbitt
Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com =
Subject: Re: [PRR] NEC location question


On Friday, January 16, 2004, at 08:50  AM, Ken = Nesbitt=20 wrote:

> Question for those on the list. =
> Along the NEC through Philadelphia, somewhere near the = N. Philly=20
> station there is an old industrial = complex that=20 has outside of it an
> old Conrail = locomotive, an=20 old Amtrak E unit and I think an old heavy
> weight=20 coach or baggage car.   There is alot of trackage here, = almost=20
> a small yard.
> Riding=20 past northbound a little while back one of the big doors on a =
> large building was open and I thought I seen a restored = locomotive=20
> inside.  I only caught a glimpse = as I was=20 looking out the other side
> of the = commuter train=20 and just glanced over.
> Can anyone tell = me the=20 address of big building, what it used to be and
>=20 how I can visit here on foot ?
> =
Guys, is this Juniata Terminal?

I've never been there, but the description of the = equipment is=20
plausible.
-----------------------------------------------------------=20
Jerry Britton, SPF   Member,=20 PRRT&HS   jerry@pennsyrr.com
Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N = Scale.=20
"Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" = mailing=20 list!
     http://kc.pennsyrr.com=20
"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad = products...=20
     http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com


----------------------------------------------------------------= -------=20
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.=20

------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C3DC28.BB502460-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] NEC location question Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:26:29 -0500 From: Bennett Levin [mailto:v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net] Subject: Re: [PRR] NEC location question From: Chany, Christopher Subject: RE: [PRR] NEC location question From: Jerry Britton [ mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com Subject: Re: [PRR] NEC location question size=2>-----Original Message-----
From: Bennett Levin PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: Re: [PRR] NEC location style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From:
Subject: RE: [PRR] NEC location

-----Original Message-----
From: size=2>Subject: Re: [PRR] NEC location question


From: "David R. Campbell" Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] BLI T1 revisited Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:36:47 -0500 I am glad to see this thread come back to life, I recevied my T1 = yesterday and had an opportunity to run it on the club layout. Our = layout has some rough track, from the days the layout was housed in less = than l perfect conditions... another story. I was interested to see if = there would be any problems with this locomotive and how it operated on = some of our tighter curves.=20 This locomotive performed nearly flawlessly, even on curves on under = 26". I don't have many passenger cars for testing so the train it was = pulling would make some of the readers here ill, 25 weighted loaded = hoppers of coal, the real stuff as this in coal mining country. This = locomotive does not have problem with curves as far as I am concerned. = Backing the train into the oldest portion of the yard (soon to be = upgraded) through old Atlas #4 turnouts was a problem where the blind = drivers would ground on the switch points, but that's an unrealistic = test for this locomtive to say the least.=20 My layout at home has crossovers in a yard using Peco small radius = turnouts, again no problem for the T1. I am throughly satisfied with = this locomotive and look forward to the M1b. best regards, David Campbell Norton, VA ------=_NextPart_000_0191_01C3DC4E.EEF99640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
I am glad to see this = thread come=20 back to life, I recevied my T1 yesterday and had an opportunity to = run it=20 on the club layout.  Our layout has some rough track, from the days = the=20 layout was housed in less than l perfect conditions... another = story.  I=20 was interested to see if there would be any problems with this = locomotive and=20 how it operated on some of our tighter curves.
 
This locomotive performed = nearly=20 flawlessly, even on curves on under 26".  I don't have many = passenger=20 cars for testing so the train it was pulling would make some of the = readers=20 here ill, 25 weighted loaded hoppers of coal, the real stuff as = this in=20 coal mining country.  This locomotive does not have problem = with=20 curves as far as I am concerned.  Backing the train into = the=20 oldest portion of the yard (soon to be upgraded) through old Atlas #4 = turnouts=20 was a problem where the blind drivers would ground on the switch = points,=20 but that's an unrealistic test for this locomtive to say the=20 least. 
 
My layout at=20 home has crossovers in a yard using Peco small radius = turnouts,=20 again no problem for the T1.  I am throughly satisfied with this = locomotive=20 and look forward to the M1b.
 
best = regards,
 
David = Campbell
Norton, VA
 
    =20
------=_NextPart_000_0191_01C3DC4E.EEF99640-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: [PRR-Modeling] PRR FM H-16-44/FS16m Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:44:40 -0800 From: Rob Schoenberg [mailto:robsch@optonline.net] Subject: [PRR] RE: [PRR-Modeling] PRR FM H-16-44/FS16m > From: ELDEN GATWOOD [mailto:ELDEN.GATWOOD@ttisg.com] > Subject: [PRR-Modeling] PRR FM H-16-44/FS16m RE: [PRR] RE: [PRR-Modeling] PRR FM H-16-44/FS16m

Rob;

That little numberboard thing was something I had to = deal with on an H-12-44 (Phase 2?) that I did several years ago. I = don't have it here to look at, but I recall the number was like 8719 or = something?  The ones that had no overhang, and the new louver = arrangement, but not the short carbody.  I had to get rid of the = original numberboards, and then I replaced them with strip styrene; = maybe 1 x 2's?  I cut out little pieces and jockeyed them around = until they looked right.  After sanding some of the paint off so = they stuck, of course.  I think PRR must have decided they didn't = like the marker-located little numberboards after the first order of = FS20's, because they had them on the first order (9300-9311?), but not = the second (the 8900's).  That second order had those same boards = mounted back on the body.  And all of those H-20's were pre- the = H-16 order (52?).  Funny how PRR messed around with numberboards = on a number of units.

I am not sure what the sloped cab thing is.  = Tell me more.  I had to file off the sloped cab ends off an Alco = Models H-20-44 that I did a few years ago because the sloped ends were = not on the PRR units.  Hmmmm.

I will look at the builder's photo in PP2 to see if = the screens were as-built.  I heard a long time ago that PRR = installed filters on some units, which required changes, and some units = also got louvers to fix water leakage issues, but I don't know that = much.  The louvers I did on that same unit were done using sets I = hacked out of a Trainmaster shell.  I wouldn't want to go there = again, but if forced to.......

I'll take a detailed look this weekend.

Elden




-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Schoenberg [mailto:robsch@optonline.net] =
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 12:00 PM
To: PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com; 'PRR Talk'
Cc: ELDEN GATWOOD
Subject: [PRR] RE: [PRR-Modeling] PRR FM = H-16-44/FS16m

Elden,

I was waiting for a discussion on these!  They = did a nice job! 
Did the PRR units have the sloped cab sides like the = Atlas unit? 
I've only found 3/4 view photos so far and can't = tell from them. 
I know this was a bone of contention with some other = roads' modelers.

Also, most/all of the photos I've seen of PRR units = have louvers
instead of the screened area in the upper-middle = section of the
sides.  Is this a PRR retrofit or were the PRR = units delivered
this way?  If it's a retrofit, when did they = get modified? 

Similarly, what's the deal with the side = numberboards?  Atlas has them
as part of the marker lights but the PRR photos I = have have them further
back as part of the body.  Again, delivery or = PRR modification?

I'm hoping someone does an antenna kit, they really = make the say PRR!

Rob

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ELDEN GATWOOD [mailto:ELDEN.GATWOOD@ttisg.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 2:35 PM
> To: 'PRR Talk'; = PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PRR-Modeling] PRR FM = H-16-44/FS16m
>
>
> Hi all;
>
> I haven't really seen any discussion on our own = PRR lists, but I
> was hoping
> that someone has seen/bought the new = FS16m/H-16-44 from Atlas,
> and might be
> open to discussing what we can do to finish = these beauties.  I just got
> mine, and I have to say that, based on a = limited look, they are
> on par with
> the PRR Genesis F's!  REALLY nice!  I = can't think of another offering
> recently that has gotten my blood going like = this one.  The color is good
> (lettering is a bit dark and a bit = "rounded"), the detail is
> finely done, it
> has nice touches like the builder's plate and = trust plate, interior with
> painted engineer and fireman, wipers, fine = rails, and a nice mesh screen
> with fan underneath.  Sharp! My Red Ball = is going into the box!
>
> It appears that we may have to mess with the = equipment box(es), install
> antennae and receiver, install dual beam = headlights, so it is not
> out-of-the-box correct, but hey, what is?  = Does anyone have any
> thoughts on
> this?  Is CalScale going to do the antenna = set?
>
> Elden
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been = removed]
>
>
> Sharing and enjoying our memories and materials = and methods to
> better reproduce the PRR in miniature !
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor = ---------------------~-->
> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, = Epson, Canon or Lexmark
> Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 = or more to the US & Canada.
> http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=3D5511
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/9MtolB/= TM
> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-&= gt;
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR-Modeling/=
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email = to:
>  = PRR-Modeling-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

---------------------------------------------------------------= --------
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C3DC79.F1E89150-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:37:30 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Barren, Green, Kentucky River 10-6's In a message dated 1/16/04 7:23:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: > Rick, > > What about L&N cars like the Green River? I have always been led to believe > > that this car and another were painted in Tuscan for use in South Wind > service. > > Stuart Thayer > Modeling the Pennsy of the 1960's Stu, The draft copy of the Cincinnati article/book just came, and on the last page of Chuck Blardone's article on the Cincinnati Limited are black-and-white pix of both these River cars as they appeared in tuscan. It's interesting to see "Louisville and Nashville" spelled out in Pennsy Roman style, instead of in normal L&N script. I've always read these cars were used in the 10-6 pool New York-Louisville, New York-Nashville, and New York-Birmingham?, all via Cincinnati. The third car was the Kentucky River. Blardone and Tilp's Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger Car Painting and Lettering (PRRT&HS 1988) says these cars "arrived in the latter half of 1949 and matched the Pennsy's Tuscan red RAPIDS-series cars in color and configuration". This may (or may not) indicate the L&N cars were the same Pullman floor plan (4129?) as some of the Pennsy 10-6's. I know that later, these L&N cars were repainted into the Old Reliable's normal blue. And still later into the 60's, the New York-Louisville (or farther) route saw PRR Rapids cars passing through St. Matthews on their way at least as far as Louisville Union Station (Jack Fravert photographed them). I'm willing to learn otherwise, but all evidence I have says the L&N cars were not normally seen on the South Wind. Rick Tipton Remembering the Old Reliable, and its connections with the Pennsylvania Railroad at Cincinnati and Louisville [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:37:30 EST Subject: [PRR] Barren, Green, Kentucky River 10-6's In a message dated 1/16/04 7:23:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: > Rick, > > What about L&N cars like the Green River? I have always been led to believe > > that this car and another were painted in Tuscan for use in South Wind > service. > > Stuart Thayer > Modeling the Pennsy of the 1960's Stu, The draft copy of the Cincinnati article/book just came, and on the last page of Chuck Blardone's article on the Cincinnati Limited are black-and-white pix of both these River cars as they appeared in tuscan. It's interesting to see "Louisville and Nashville" spelled out in Pennsy Roman style, instead of in normal L&N script. I've always read these cars were used in the 10-6 pool New York-Louisville, New York-Nashville, and New York-Birmingham?, all via Cincinnati. The third car was the Kentucky River. Blardone and Tilp's Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger Car Painting and Lettering (PRRT&HS 1988) says these cars "arrived in the latter half of 1949 and matched the Pennsy's Tuscan red RAPIDS-series cars in color and configuration". This may (or may not) indicate the L&N cars were the same Pullman floor plan (4129?) as some of the Pennsy 10-6's. I know that later, these L&N cars were repainted into the Old Reliable's normal blue. And still later into the 60's, the New York-Louisville (or farther) route saw PRR Rapids cars passing through St. Matthews on their way at least as far as Louisville Union Station (Jack Fravert photographed them). I'm willing to learn otherwise, but all evidence I have says the L&N cars were not normally seen on the South Wind. Rick Tipton Remembering the Old Reliable, and its connections with the Pennsylvania Railroad at Cincinnati and Louisville --part1_104.3da8e0a5.2d39c1aa_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 1/16/04 7:23:11=20= AM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes:


Rick,

What about L&N cars like the Green River?  I have always been led t= o believe
that this car and another were painted in Tuscan for use in South Wind
service.

Stuart Thayer
Modeling the Pennsy of the 1960's


Stu,

The draft copy of the Cincinnati article/book just came, and on the last pag= e of Chuck Blardone's article on the Cincinnati Limited are black-and-white=20= pix of both these River cars as they appeared in tuscan.  It's interest= ing to see "Louisville and Nashville" spelled out in Pennsy Roman style, ins= tead of in normal L&N script.

I've always read these cars were used in the 10-6 pool New York-Louisville,=20= New York-Nashville, and New York-Birmingham?, all via Cincinnati.  The=20= third car was the Kentucky River.  Blardone and Tilp's Pennsylvania Rai= lroad Passenger Car Painting and Lettering (PRRT&HS 1988) says these car= s "arrived in the latter half of 1949 and matched the Pennsy's Tuscan red RA= PIDS-series cars in color and configuration".  This may (or may not) in= dicate the L&N cars were the same Pullman floor plan (4129?) as some of=20= the Pennsy 10-6's.

I know that later, these L&N cars were repainted into the Old Reliable's= normal blue.  And still later into the 60's, the New York-Louisville (= or farther) route saw PRR Rapids cars passing through St. Matthews on their=20= way at least as far as Louisville Union Station (Jack Fravert photographed t= hem).

I'm willing to learn otherwise, but all evidence I have says the L&N car= s were not normally seen on the South Wind.


Rick Tipton
Remembering the Old Reliable, and its connections with the Pennsylvania Rail= road at Cincinnati and Louisville --part1_104.3da8e0a5.2d39c1aa_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 22:25:43 -0500 From: Phil Balles Subject: [PRR] Laser Horizon's diner car sides Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: All Merchandise Service lists D85C diner car sides - does anyone know whose car it is (Budd, ACF or Pullman) and/or what core kit to use. Is there a corresponding D85D or D85E not listed? On a related note, which car core kit would one use for the D70CR/DR/ER car sides. Thanks Phil Balles ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: k4sb@niia.net Subject: [PRR] Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 05:28:32 -00 From: Prr1187@aol.com Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:25:22 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Laser Horizon's diner car sides X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 146 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Phil, The D85C diner sides are Altoona built and have holes for a horizontal grab iron over the vent louvres, whereas the product A4FLD sides are the ACF version having holes for a vertical grab iron by the vent louvres and the louvres are slightly larger. The D85D is the Kitchen/Dormitory that goes with the full length diner above. The product A4KD sides are the ACF version to go with the above. The correct core kits to chose from are: Eastern Car Works #1299, or Train Station Products #807. The D85Ed is a coffee shop built by Budd with fluted sides. No one has yet asked for these sides, possibly because of the fluting. The D70CR/DR/ER cars are shorter cars and there may not be a shorter core kit available. That means either modifying (shortening) a core kit, or obtaining a complete kit and replace the sides that come with it. Regards, Dennis Sautters Laser Horizons In a message dated 1/16/04 10:33:37 PM, prrdepot@cablespeed.com writes: << All Merchandise Service lists D85C diner car sides - does anyone know whose car it is (Budd, ACF or Pullman) and/or what core kit to use. Is there a corresponding D85D or D85E not listed? On a related note, which car core kit would one use for the D70CR/DR/ER car sides. Thanks Phil Balles >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 07:48:50 GMT Subject: [PRR] South Wind From: Dominic Mazoch Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 09:36:34 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Auction Items From: Roger P Hensley Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Folks, the Central Indiana Division, NMRA holds its annual auction Sunday January 25th at Noblesville Indiana. This is only important to you because of the number of Pennsy items that have been donated to the division for the auction. A partial list (and I mean partial because I took in more yesterday) is in the CID web site in the latest Rusty Spike newsletter pdf file. http://cid.railfan.net/ (take the Rusty Spike link in the NavBar) A long standing member of the division has left the state and is now traveling in an RV where they just can't take all of this with them. For people who are not into the Pennsy, many of the items will not mean anything, and may end up with folks who do not really know what they bought. In the materials I received yesterday are some Pennsy blueprints of items in Ohio. No, I haven't been through all of this stuff yet. from models to collectable and memorabilia, there is a lot there. In any event, if you are close, this might well be worth a trip to Noblesville north of Indy. Meet and Auction details are also in that Spike pdf and on the web site. The auction is from 2 to 4 and, in many cases, I will auction in lots to make the ending time. Roger Hensley - KC9EJI === Central Indiana Division, NMRA - http://cid.railfan.net/ === === Railroads of Madison County - http://madisonrails.railfan.net/ === ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" From: Dominic Mazoch Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 07:48:50 GMT Subject: [PRR-FAX] South Wind Question: Would have it made more sense to route the SW via Wasington DC, or have through cars on CHI-WAS trains. At least then one could have daily service of some sort. Dominic Mazoch ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] South Wind Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 10:23:07 -0600 There was daily service from Chicago. Every third day service by each = of the C&EI Dixie Flagler, IC City of Miami, and PRR Southwind, gave daily service. In addition, the Southland which was routed via Ft. Wayne and = was gone by 1959 picked up the Detroit business. IN 1951 C&EI made its last run of all sleepers and through cars. City = of Miami and South Wind went to 2 out of every three days in 1951-52. By = 1954 the latter were every other day service and the C&EI's new Pullmans = remained every third day. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Dominic Mazoch" > > Would have it made more sense to route the SW via Wasington DC, or = have through cars on CHI-WAS trains. At least then one could have daily = service of some sort. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C3DCE3.E605E9E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
There was daily=20 service from Chicago.  Every third day service by each of
the = C&EI=20 Dixie Flagler, IC City of Miami, and PRR Southwind, gave = daily
service. =20 In addition, the Southland which was routed via Ft. Wayne and = was
gone by=20 1959 picked up the Detroit business.

IN 1951 C&EI made its = last run=20 of all sleepers and through cars.  City of
Miami and South Wind = went to=20 2 out of every three days in 1951-52. By 1954
the latter were every = other day=20 service and the C&EI's new Pullmans remained
every third = day.

Bob=20 Zoeller

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dominic Mazoch"=20 <domemt@juno.com>
>
> Would have it made more sense to route the = SW via=20 Wasington DC, or have
through cars on CHI-WAS trains.  At least = then one=20 could have daily service
of some = sort.
------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C3DCE3.E605E9E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Christopher Baker" Subject: RE: [PRR] South Wind Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 15:08:10 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20040116.234902.2345.492597@webmail07.lax.untd.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I believe daily service between CHI and Florida was available - albeit, not all on a PRR train. The CHI-Florida streamliners offered a coordinated schedule of departures in each direction so that at least daily service was available over one routing or another. Chris Baker PRRT&HS#1918 -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Dominic Mazoch Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 2:49 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com; PRR@yahoogroups.com Subject: [PRR] South Wind Question: Would have it made more sense to route the SW via Wasington DC, or have through cars on CHI-WAS trains. At least then one could have daily service of some sort. Dominic Mazoch ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 18:01:50 EST Subject: [PRR] Oven Baked ECW Car Kits I am using the ECW PRR P70 coach kits, 1131, to model the 1947 Freedom Train. All three kits have the floors, clerestory roofs and sides so badly warped they beg to be returned to the vendor. However, as they are to be heavily modified and as they are the only kit on the market, returning them is not an option. I have heard about placing parts in a warm oven to remove the warp from flat parts. Before doing a Betty Crocia number on these parts, does anyone have experience with the heating of styrene parts to straighten them? If so, I would greatly appreciate learning of your experiences. Thank you, Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1074380510 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
  I am using the ECW PRR P70 coach kits, 1131, to model the 1947 F= reedom Train.  All three kits have the floors, clerestory roofs and sid= es so badly warped they beg to be returned to the vendor.  However, as=20= they are to be heavily modified and as they are the only kit on the market,=20= returning them is not an option.
 
 I have heard about placing parts in a warm oven to remove the war= p from flat parts.  Before doing a Betty Crocia number on these pa= rts,  does anyone have experience with the heating of styrene parts to=20= straighten them?  If so, I would greatly appreciate learning of your ex= periences.
 
Thank you,

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1074380510-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: k4sb@niia.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Oven Baked ECW Car Kits Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 01:52:05 -00 From: k4sb@niia.net Subject: [PRR] Introduction of myself and BLI T1 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 02:05:15 -00 From: "michael hmel" Subject: Re: [PRR] Oven Baked ECW Car Kits Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:17:59 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ContentStamp: 5:2:1070330783 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hello list , I have to agree with Ken , you may indeed do more harm than good . I am a contractor and can tell you that certain vinyl products ( i.e. vinyl siding , vinyl hopital hand rail ...) do indeed have a memory . Many times when a piece is forced it one way or another it forms a white stress mark . These can be removed , with a heat gun along with bends and destortion . Note the common denominator " vinyl , but the styrene is a totally different animal . Mike Hmel Member : TCA , PRRT&HS Lists : PRR Talk , PC Modeling , Conrail Talk Lionel Collectors , Toytraintrading E-Mail : michaelhmel@netzero.net E-bay : iron*mah ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: [PRR] Steam Doghouses Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 22:00:42 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I vaguely recall that someone makes after-market doghouses (may be in resin) for Steam Tenders. Can anyone enlighten me on the manufacturer? Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 22:16:16 EST Subject: [PRR] Thanks - Oven Baked ECW kit Wow! What a data dump. I feel fully armed to try heating the pieces. Will start with the floor pieces as they are the most easily replaced if damaged (damaged? Can an already unusable piece be damaged?) The sides and roofs will be the trick. Will try both the oven and the hot water methods then post the results. FYI: Tried using the IM roller bearing wheel sets in the ECW trucks and it is a no go. The taper on the axle end of the IM sets are too different from the ECWs. The axles swim around in the axle pockets. Tried Tichy's axle bearings but the work, about a hour per truck, is not worth the effort as the fit is a bit tight. Bottom line. No more ECW products for this boy. Still have a few ECW core kits begging for a wreck scene to put them to use. They also are too warped to be used. Would rather pay more for the TSP to have a core ready to use. Again, thanks to all for an encyclopedia's worth of info. on heating styrene. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1074395776 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Wow!  What a data dump.  I feel fully armed to try heating th= e pieces.  Will start with the floor pieces as they are the most easily= replaced if damaged (damaged? Can an already unusable piece be damaged?)&nb= sp; The sides and roofs will be the trick.  Will try both the oven and=20= the hot water methods then post the results.
 
FYI:  Tried using the IM roller bearing wheel sets in the ECW truc= ks and it is a no go.  The taper on the axle end of the IM sets are too= different from the ECWs.  The axles swim around in the axle pockets.&n= bsp; Tried Tichy's axle bearings but the work, about a hour per truck, is no= t worth the effort as the fit is a bit tight.
 
Bottom line.  No more ECW products for this boy.  Still have=20= a few ECW core kits begging for a wreck scene to put them to use.  They= also are too warped to be used.  Would rather pay more for the TSP to=20= have a core ready to use.
 
Again, thanks to all for an encyclopedia's worth of info. on heating st= yrene.

Evan Leisey
RCT&HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ=
-------------------------------1074395776-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 20:23:37 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Behavior of polystyrene, variations, thoughts on why From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] Thanks - Oven Baked ECW kit Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:00:14 -0600 Evan--Kadee's 36 in. wheel sets will work in the ECW PRR trucks. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RDG2124@aol.com=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com ; Reading-Talk@dsop.com ; = PassengerCarList@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 9:16 PM Subject: [PRR] Thanks - Oven Baked ECW kit Wow! What a data dump. I feel fully armed to try heating the pieces. = Will start with the floor pieces as they are the most easily replaced = if damaged (damaged? Can an already unusable piece be damaged?) The = sides and roofs will be the trick. Will try both the oven and the hot = water methods then post the results. FYI: Tried using the IM roller bearing wheel sets in the ECW trucks = and it is a no go. The taper on the axle end of the IM sets are too = different from the ECWs. The axles swim around in the axle pockets. = Tried Tichy's axle bearings but the work, about a hour per truck, is not = worth the effort as the fit is a bit tight. Bottom line. No more ECW products for this boy. Still have a few ECW = core kits begging for a wreck scene to put them to use. They also are = too warped to be used. Would rather pay more for the TSP to have a core = ready to use. Again, thanks to all for an encyclopedia's worth of info. on heating = styrene. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3DD56.0C9E9030 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Evan--Kadee's 36 in. wheel sets will work in the ECW PRR = trucks.
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 RDG2124@aol.com=20
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com ; Reading-Talk@dsop.com ; PassengerCarList@yahoogr= oups.com=20
Sent: Saturday, January 17, = 2004 9:16=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] Thanks - Oven = Baked ECW=20 kit

Wow!  What a data dump.  I feel fully armed to try = heating the=20 pieces.  Will start with the floor pieces as they are the most = easily=20 replaced if damaged (damaged? Can an already unusable piece be = damaged?) =20 The sides and roofs will be the trick.  Will try both the oven = and the=20 hot water methods then post the results.
 
FYI:  Tried using the IM roller bearing wheel sets in the = ECW trucks=20 and it is a no go.  The taper on the axle end of the IM sets are = too=20 different from the ECWs.  The axles swim around in the axle=20 pockets.  Tried Tichy's axle bearings but the work, about a hour = per=20 truck, is not worth the effort as the fit is a bit tight.
 
Bottom line.  No more ECW products for this boy.  Still = have a=20 few ECW core kits begging for a wreck scene to put them to use.  = They=20 also are too warped to be used.  Would rather pay more for the = TSP to=20 have a core ready to use.
 
Again, thanks to all for an encyclopedia's worth of info. on = heating=20 styrene.

Evan=20 Leisey
RCT&HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.)=20 2036
CNJ
------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3DD56.0C9E9030-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] Steam Doghouses Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:02:09 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Brian--Bowser makes them in their Selley line. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian J Carlson" To: "PRR Talk" Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 9:00 PM Subject: [PRR] Steam Doghouses > I vaguely recall that someone makes after-market doghouses (may be in resin) > for Steam Tenders. Can anyone enlighten me on the manufacturer? > > Brian J Carlson > Cheektowaga NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Robert Kessler" Subject: [PRR] RE: Oven Baked ECW Car Kits Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:57:58 -0800 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Importance: High In-Reply-To: <1137716291-24792021@dsop.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Thread-Index: AcPdimvHm02LuGIFSrOc++477H45+gAFZ29w Message-ID: <1137706212-25389411@dsop.com> Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Evan: I once tried baking Scalecoat paint at 150 degrees F on two sets of Alco (ECW predecessor) P70 car sides. The paint came out exactly as desired, but the car sides were reduced almost to N gauge size. The use of heat will releave the molding stresses that caused the warpage, but the shrinkage will be a serious concern. Bob Kessler Subject: Oven Baked ECW Car Kits From: Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 18:01:50 EST -------------------------------1074380510 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I am using the ECW PRR P70 coach kits, 1131, to model the 1947 Freedom Train. All three kits have the floors, clerestory roofs and sides so badly warped they beg to be returned to the vendor. However, as they are to be heavily modified and as they are the only kit on the market, returning them is not an option. I have heard about placing parts in a warm oven to remove the warp from flat parts. Before doing a Betty Crocia number on these parts, does anyone have experience with the heating of styrene parts to straighten them? If so, I would greatly appreciate learning of your experiences. Thank you, Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] B&O light Mike HELP! Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 07:20:55 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, I am getting a little desperate here. I am decaling a USRA Light Mike by tomorrow latest for delivery at the Timonium Md. train show on Saturday. Does ANYONE have a good side shot of one, or close up of the tender painted in B&O? I understand that # 4500 from the B&O Railroad may be the actual class I need as well. Without a good photo, I will just be happy if I spell it right! (:->) Please reply to billlane@comcast.net as I don't receive email from most of my groups. Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Wildwood Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 09:57:21 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, This is my response to the following sent to PRSLfans@yahoogroups.com I WOULD like to know what photo they are referencing. Message: 1 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 02:01:46 -0000 From: "DOCTOR REYNOLDS" Subject: Wildwood Junction Question I'm winging it, because my RR books are mostly 700 miles away, but I think NJT ran the last trains into Wildwood NJ ca. 1981 (or was that Ocean City?). PRSL went into "Conrail" in 1976, and NJT had trackage rights to run passenger service, but eventually the track conditions got too bad. Before the 1933 PRSL merger, the West Jersey and Seashore ran from their own (further north) Wildwood Jct. Into Anglesea and North Wildwood--much of the causeway is still there-- then down the island to a turning loop in the marsh at Wildwood Crest. The track across Richardson Sound was built later as the Wildwood & Delaware Bay Short Line RR, which connected with the Reading's Atlantic City RR line to Cape May. A very grouchy person has built a house at the barrier-island end of that causeway/swing bridge. The mainland end is being used to dump clamshells, and there are some crumbly old concrete bridges across the marsh. I don't know what that boxy bldg. in the photo is, but the hexagonal (some were heptagonal) ones you refer to were RR phone booths-there is a nice one on the old DL&W Bloomsburg branch just south of Plymouth PA, and another at the Ashley PA CNJ yard by the old Huber breaker. A photo of one can be seen at the home page of the Carolina Coast Line group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/carolinacoastline I'm not sure where that one was taken. - Doc http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eastcoastrailfans http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bigvalleyrailroads From: "Gary Stephens" Date: Sat Jan 17, 2004 6:55 pm Subject: Wildwood Junction Question When did the last trains run into Wildwood NJ? I know the line and track were sold to someone and then removed. Something is bugging me about the concrete building in picture 37 in the Wildwood photo album. Anybody have any ideas what it is, it looks like a grave. It's about 10 X 7 feet, door at the opposite end, all concrete walls and roof. This could be the worlds strongest relay cabinet. CNJ has a much smaller hexagon concrete building they used for crew telephone messages along their southern branch through Lakewood and Lakehurst. Anybody have any thoughts? Gary Here is my response: Wildwood has always been a favorite as 2 houses have been in my family since the 30s. My Grandmom and Great Aunt still live there. I could see the West Wildwood draw bridge from the dock. My father would take me and RACE to the station in summer traffic to try and beat the trains. It was always close. They were mostly RDC by then. I don't know exactly when the last trains left the island. There was an attempt at making some passenger cars into shops about 1980. By the time the idea fizzled, the tracks were abandoned. The cars were scrapped on the spot and removed by truck. The last freight trains I remember seeing were bringing LARGE boulders for beach jetties. One of the concrete bridges paralleling the road in Grassy Sound has finally collapsed in the past year or 2 leaving one end in the water. That was one of the original routes onto the island. I can remember seeing people crabbing from them in the summer wondering how they got there. The return loop was Cold Spring Harbor. You can still see trees growing on the old R O W if you know what to look for. The summer 1990 PRR T&HS Keystone did a wonderful issue on Wildwood. I met the "grouchy" person once while trying to take some photos of the remainder of the bridge. He is/was very strange. He bought the R O W from the mainland to the island from NJT for $1.00. Sly like a fox if you get a building lot in West Wildwood for that price. He was scrapping the bridge for YEARS. When he finally cut it loose, he "underestimated" the weight of the bridge. It took the bridge and the crane into the drink where it remains today! He did not say if he went with it too. There was a concern with the Coast Guard about water clearance so he removed some of the pilings on the mainland side and rerouted the waterway. Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 09:57:21 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Wildwood Hi All, This is my response to the following sent to PRSLfans@yahoogroups.com I WOULD like to know what photo they are referencing. Message: 1 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 02:01:46 -0000 From: "DOCTOR REYNOLDS" Subject: Wildwood Junction Question I'm winging it, because my RR books are mostly 700 miles away, but I think NJT ran the last trains into Wildwood NJ ca. 1981 (or was that Ocean City?). PRSL went into "Conrail" in 1976, and NJT had trackage rights to run passenger service, but eventually the track conditions got too bad. Before the 1933 PRSL merger, the West Jersey and Seashore ran from their own (further north) Wildwood Jct. Into Anglesea and North Wildwood--much of the causeway is still there-- then down the island to a turning loop in the marsh at Wildwood Crest. The track across Richardson Sound was built later as the Wildwood & Delaware Bay Short Line RR, which connected with the Reading's Atlantic City RR line to Cape May. A very grouchy person has built a house at the barrier-island end of that causeway/swing bridge. The mainland end is being used to dump clamshells, and there are some crumbly old concrete bridges across the marsh. I don't know what that boxy bldg. in the photo is, but the hexagonal (some were heptagonal) ones you refer to were RR phone booths-there is a nice one on the old DL&W Bloomsburg branch just south of Plymouth PA, and another at the Ashley PA CNJ yard by the old Huber breaker. A photo of one can be seen at the home page of the Carolina Coast Line group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/carolinacoastline I'm not sure where that one was taken. - Doc http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eastcoastrailfans http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bigvalleyrailroads From: "Gary Stephens" Date: Sat Jan 17, 2004 6:55 pm Subject: Wildwood Junction Question When did the last trains run into Wildwood NJ? I know the line and track were sold to someone and then removed. Something is bugging me about the concrete building in picture 37 in the Wildwood photo album. Anybody have any ideas what it is, it looks like a grave. It's about 10 X 7 feet, door at the opposite end, all concrete walls and roof. This could be the worlds strongest relay cabinet. CNJ has a much smaller hexagon concrete building they used for crew telephone messages along their southern branch through Lakewood and Lakehurst. Anybody have any thoughts? Gary Here is my response: Wildwood has always been a favorite as 2 houses have been in my family since the 30s. My Grandmom and Great Aunt still live there. I could see the West Wildwood draw bridge from the dock. My father would take me and RACE to the station in summer traffic to try and beat the trains. It was always close. They were mostly RDC by then. I don't know exactly when the last trains left the island. There was an attempt at making some passenger cars into shops about 1980. By the time the idea fizzled, the tracks were abandoned. The cars were scrapped on the spot and removed by truck. The last freight trains I remember seeing were bringing LARGE boulders for beach jetties. One of the concrete bridges paralleling the road in Grassy Sound has finally collapsed in the past year or 2 leaving one end in the water. That was one of the original routes onto the island. I can remember seeing people crabbing from them in the summer wondering how they got there. The return loop was Cold Spring Harbor. You can still see trees growing on the old R O W if you know what to look for. The summer 1990 PRR T&HS Keystone did a wonderful issue on Wildwood. I met the "grouchy" person once while trying to take some photos of the remainder of the bridge. He is/was very strange. He bought the R O W from the mainland to the island from NJT for $1.00. Sly like a fox if you get a building lot in West Wildwood for that price. He was scrapping the bridge for YEARS. When he finally cut it loose, he "underestimated" the weight of the bridge. It took the bridge and the crane into the drink where it remains today! He did not say if he went with it too. There was a concern with the Coast Guard about water clearance so he removed some of the pilings on the mainland side and rerouted the waterway. Thanks Bill "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Hough " Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 11:04:01 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Oven Baked ECW Car Kits From: ARRJERRY@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 12:15:37 EST Subject: [PRR] BLI Mountains Hi All, What is going on regarding the BLI Mountains? A friend of mine in Arkansas says he has had 2 of these for several days. He got them from an Oregon dealer. He says they are wonderful and he particularly is impressed with the regular DC sound as he uses the old Rail Command. The BLI web site still says early 2004. Recent comments said shipping to dealers in 10 days. This impatient Pennsy nut would like some good news before a phone or electric bill takes my pigeon holed money. Jerry --part1_59.35cfd66.2d3c1939_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Hi All,
What is going on regarding the BLI Mountains? A friend of mine in Arkansas s= ays he has had 2 of these for several days. He got them from an Oregon deale= r. He says they are wonderful and he particularly is impressed with the regu= lar DC sound as he uses the old Rail Command.
The BLI web site still says early 2004.
Recent comments said shipping to dealers in 10 days.
This impatient Pennsy nut would like some good news before a phone or electr= ic bill takes my pigeon holed money.
Jerry
 --part1_59.35cfd66.2d3c1939_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI Mountains Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 12:31:13 -0500 To: ARRJERRY@aol.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: M1's have not shipped yet. They are due out in about 10 days. I suspect your friend has seen the T1's which arrived about two weeks ago. If it was the M1's, they they know someone at BLI and saw a pre-production unit. On Jan 18, 2004, at 12:15 PM, ARRJERRY@aol.com wrote: > Hi All, > What is going on regarding the BLI Mountains? A friend of mine in > Arkansas says he has had 2 of these for several days. He got them from > an Oregon dealer. He says they are wonderful and he particularly is > impressed with the regular DC sound as he uses the old Rail Command. > The BLI web site still says early 2004. > Recent comments said shipping to dealers in 10 days. > This impatient Pennsy nut would like some good news before a phone or > electric bill takes my pigeon holed money. > Jerry > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Subject: Re: [PRR] Thanks - Oven Baked ECW kit Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 13:33:39 -0600 Hi Y'all I had eMailed Evan without y'all. No to oven bake. A friend of mine = suggested holding the roof/floor on both ends, and passing the middle = over a stove/range burner. I don't like that either. But - how about using brass 1/16" or so. Glue to the underside of roof = and floor. I've not tried it, but with several EDW kits to work, = shouldn't be too difficult. Separate matter. Trucks. There are really nice 4 wheel PRR 2DP5 PSC = #33179 & #33180. One # is roller bearings, the other is friction = bearings. The retail $18ish, and I paid $14.50 a year or so ago. The = brass weight helps the light ECW car. A more modern P70... can use the = MDC trucks #2933, which are roller bearing Commonwealth design. Keep in mind I am no expert. These are untried ideas. But as in all = things, use common sense. And most important of all, get a good proto = photo of the car you are modeling. Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist, Proud SPF PRRTHS #1204 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RDG2124@aol.com=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com ; Reading-Talk@dsop.com ; = PassengerCarList@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Saturday, 17 January, 2004 9:16 PM Subject: [PRR] Thanks - Oven Baked ECW kit Wow! What a data dump. I feel fully armed to try heating the pieces. = Will start with the floor pieces as they are the most easily replaced = if damaged (damaged? Can an already unusable piece be damaged?) The = sides and roofs will be the trick. Will try both the oven and the hot = water methods then post the results. FYI: Tried using the IM roller bearing wheel sets in the ECW trucks = and it is a no go. The taper on the axle end of the IM sets are too = different from the ECWs. The axles swim around in the axle pockets. = Tried Tichy's axle bearings but the work, about a hour per truck, is not = worth the effort as the fit is a bit tight. Bottom line. No more ECW products for this boy. Still have a few ECW = core kits begging for a wreck scene to put them to use. They also are = too warped to be used. Would rather pay more for the TSP to have a core = ready to use. Again, thanks to all for an encyclopedia's worth of info. on heating = styrene. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.562 / Virus Database: 354 - Release Date: 01/16/2004 ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C3DDC7.AE7A8000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Y'all
 
I had eMailed Evan without = y'all.  No to=20 oven bake.  A friend of mine suggested holding the roof/floor on = both ends,=20 and passing the middle over a stove/range burner.  I don't like = that=20 either.
 
But - how about using brass 1/16" or = so. =20 Glue to the underside of roof and floor.  I've not tried it, but = with=20 several EDW kits to work, shouldn't be too difficult.
 
Separate matter.  Trucks.  = There are=20 really nice 4 wheel PRR 2DP5 PSC #33179 & #33180.  One # is = roller=20 bearings, the other is friction bearings.  The retail $18ish, and I = paid=20 $14.50 a year or so ago.  The brass weight helps the light ECW = car.  A=20 more modern P70... can use the MDC trucks #2933, which are roller = bearing=20 Commonwealth design.
 
Keep in mind I am no expert.  = These are=20 untried ideas.  But as in all things, use common sense.  And = most=20 important of all, get a good proto photo of the car you are=20 modeling.
 
Morgan Bilbo
Ferroequinologist, = Proud=20 SPF
PRRTHS #1204
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 RDG2124@aol.com=20
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com ; Reading-Talk@dsop.com ; PassengerCarList@yahoogr= oups.com=20
Sent: Saturday, 17 January, = 2004 9:16=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] Thanks - Oven = Baked ECW=20 kit

Wow!  What a data dump.  I feel fully armed to try = heating the=20 pieces.  Will start with the floor pieces as they are the most = easily=20 replaced if damaged (damaged? Can an already unusable piece be = damaged?) =20 The sides and roofs will be the trick.  Will try both the oven = and the=20 hot water methods then post the results.
 
FYI:  Tried using the IM roller bearing wheel sets in the = ECW trucks=20 and it is a no go.  The taper on the axle end of the IM sets are = too=20 different from the ECWs.  The axles swim around in the axle=20 pockets.  Tried Tichy's axle bearings but the work, about a hour = per=20 truck, is not worth the effort as the fit is a bit tight.
 
Bottom line.  No more ECW products for this boy.  Still = have a=20 few ECW core kits begging for a wreck scene to put them to use.  = They=20 also are too warped to be used.  Would rather pay more for the = TSP to=20 have a core ready to use.
 
Again, thanks to all for an encyclopedia's worth of info. on = heating=20 styrene.

Evan Leisey
RCT&HS = 346
PRRT&HS=20 (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
 

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus = Free.
Checked by=20 AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: = 6.0.562=20 / Virus Database: 354 - Release Date:=20 01/16/2004
------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C3DDC7.AE7A8000-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 16:33:09 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] South Wind (again this year) Funny how the thread on the South Wind comes alive again with each new January... I looked at last year's emails on this, and I'm not convinced we know much more than we did last year. As for me, I've said all along that I don't know enough about this to even be dangerous... but it is fun to try to correlate what's posted with what the railfans in Louisville tell me and show me in pictures... In a message dated 1/17/04 8:17:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:13:30 -0600 > From: "Briers, Ken" > Subject: RE: Re: More South Wind Questions > > I would suggest that the IC train was comprised of cars and locomotives of > varying ownership, but they were uniformly painted in IC colors. This is to > say that IC did a better job of maintaining the image/appearance than PRR. > > I rode the City in early 1970, up to Chicago from Columbus, GA, and back the > next day on the same consist. The lead unit was in IC colors but lettered > "Central of Georgia" on the sides, in the IC type style, with no logo of any > kind on the nose. There was a dome (Mopac or Wabash?) in the consist, in IC > colors. I believe all of the cars carried "City of Miami" on the letter > boards, with railroad initials, of various roads, at the ends. > > Ken Briers Maybe uniformity was easier to do because all these cars were dedicated to this train (and just one trainset, right?). Of course, it's known that every winter season when IC leased an NP Vista Dome sleeper, it WAS repainted in IC colors to match the train... > > -----Original Message----- > From: brokenjaw1939 [mailto:bobaud@sbcglobal.net] > Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 2:12 AM > To: PRR@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: More South Wind Questions > > > I had always seen it as a solid > ICRR train. The PRR (and its cohorts) on the other hand, had tcco > scratch for equipment to protect their schedule. Bob, 1. I suppose I wouldn't have used quite the terminology "scratch", but you have a point. Originally, the PRR and the ACL trainsets may have run as distinct and mostly uniform sets; photo evidence suggests this continued through 1950 and maybe as late as 1952. Of course, you are right, either a) the PRR trainset never was dedicated equipment, or else b) it was eventually combined with the rest of the fleet and the Wind was just assembled from whatever Chicago 12th Street had on hand that day. 2. With the possible exception of the Broadway, I doubt any of the trains that originated out of Chicago to New York, to Columbus, to Cincinnati, or to Louisville were dedicated sets. What would be the point? 3. The second observable period in photos show near-solid consists, but seemingly always with the "wrong" units. This may just reflect the perverse tendency of railfans to photograph the freaky; nevertheless, if you look at somebody's slides/prints taken around Louisville in the diesel era, if the units are PRR, the train is stainless Budd? ACL (and maybe with stainless FEC baggage). The other pix are of ACL units, purple-striped, pulling tuscan cars. 3. Then the third observable period (1953 to the 60's?) shows more mixing in the trainsets. Pennsy started stripping tuscan off its stainless steel cars, so that a string of just PRR cars was part tuscan and part gleaming stainless, adding to the "mixed" impression. Also, I think it makes sense that, with passenger traffic dying and with fewer cars coming to Chicago, the South Wind trainsets would get more and more mixed up. 4. As a fourth factor, as the cars got older, maintenance holdbacks were likely more frequent, and this would get cars "out of phase". 4. Certainly MY favorite color photo of the Wind is in the Sixties, with the train northbound just coming down off the big hill at Coalsburg KY. The units are a pair of ACL E-8's; coaches are tuscan; the NP sleeper is gleaming in its 2-tone green, and the sleepers at the rear (owner not obvious) are shining stainless. Looking forward to picking up this thread after Christmas 2004... Meantime I'll be watching for better documentation. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 16:33:14 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Cincinnati Limited cars (Plan 4140, PRR and L&N) In a message dated 1/18/04 5:51:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 17:23:26 EST > From: RBURG74133@AOL.COM > Subject: Re: RE: L&N cars painted Tuscan Red > > According to Bob Wayner, > The three cars Green River, Kentucky River & Barren River were Plan 4140 Lot > > 6814 built10/49. Note some PRR Rapids cars were also Plan 4140 and others > were > 4129. > The intended use was for joint service with PRR on NY to Louisville, > Nashville and Memphis routes. > > Ray Burghart SPF > Thanks, Ray. Do we know the names of the Plan 4140 Rapids cars? Volume 4 (PRR) of The Official Pullman Standard Library" shows two were Sangamon Rapids and Towanda Rapids; it does not list the other 16 car names. The N&W 4140's were listed as McDowell County, Buchanan County, and Sussex County. Also, the RF&P cars were King George, King William, and King & Queen (are these all counties in Virginia?) Also, I'm glad you correct the intended routes to New York-Louisville, -Nashville, and -Memphis. I knew "Birmingham" was wrong about as soon as I sent that message. I'm still looking for confirmation that all three Pullman routes (definitely via Pittsburgh, Columbus, and Cincinnati) were served as connections to PRR's Cincinnati Limited (Numbers 40 and 41). Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 16:33:14 EST Subject: [PRR] Cincinnati Limited cars (Plan 4140, PRR and L&N) In a message dated 1/18/04 5:51:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 17:23:26 EST > From: RBURG74133@AOL.COM > Subject: Re: RE: L&N cars painted Tuscan Red > > According to Bob Wayner, > The three cars Green River, Kentucky River & Barren River were Plan 4140 Lot > > 6814 built10/49. Note some PRR Rapids cars were also Plan 4140 and others > were > 4129. > The intended use was for joint service with PRR on NY to Louisville, > Nashville and Memphis routes. > > Ray Burghart SPF > Thanks, Ray. Do we know the names of the Plan 4140 Rapids cars? Volume 4 (PRR) of The Official Pullman Standard Library" shows two were Sangamon Rapids and Towanda Rapids; it does not list the other 16 car names. The N&W 4140's were listed as McDowell County, Buchanan County, and Sussex County. Also, the RF&P cars were King George, King William, and King & Queen (are these all counties in Virginia?) Also, I'm glad you correct the intended routes to New York-Louisville, -Nashville, and -Memphis. I knew "Birmingham" was wrong about as soon as I sent that message. I'm still looking for confirmation that all three Pullman routes (definitely via Pittsburgh, Columbus, and Cincinnati) were served as connections to PRR's Cincinnati Limited (Numbers 40 and 41). Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_34.4447b54f.2d3c559a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 1/18/04 5:51:58=20= AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes:


Message: 3
   Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 17:23:26 EST
   From: RBURG74133@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: RE: L&N cars painted Tuscan Red

According to Bob Wayner,
The three cars Green River, Kentucky River & Barren River were Plan 4140= Lot
6814 built10/49. Note some PRR Rapids cars were also Plan 4140 and others we= re
4129.
The intended use was for joint service with PRR on NY to Louisville,
Nashville and Memphis routes.

Ray Burghart SPF


Thanks, Ray.  Do we know the names of the Plan 4140 Rapids cars? =20= Volume 4 (PRR) of The Official Pullman Standard Library" shows two were Sang= amon Rapids and Towanda Rapids; it does not list the other 16 car names.&nbs= p;  The N&W 4140's were listed as McDowell County,  Buchanan C= ounty, and Sussex County.  Also, the RF&P cars were King George, Ki= ng William, and King & Queen (are these all counties in Virginia?)

Also, I'm glad you correct the intended routes to New York-Louisville, -Nash= ville, and -Memphis.  I knew "Birmingham" was wrong about as soon as I=20= sent that message.  I'm still looking for confirmation that all three P= ullman routes (definitely via Pittsburgh, Columbus, and Cincinnati) were ser= ved as connections to PRR's Cincinnati Limited (Numbers 40 and 41).


Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_34.4447b54f.2d3c559a_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 16:33:09 EST Subject: [PRR] South Wind (again this year) Funny how the thread on the South Wind comes alive again with each new January... I looked at last year's emails on this, and I'm not convinced we know much more than we did last year. As for me, I've said all along that I don't know enough about this to even be dangerous... but it is fun to try to correlate what's posted with what the railfans in Louisville tell me and show me in pictures... In a message dated 1/17/04 8:17:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:13:30 -0600 > From: "Briers, Ken" > Subject: RE: Re: More South Wind Questions > > I would suggest that the IC train was comprised of cars and locomotives of > varying ownership, but they were uniformly painted in IC colors. This is to > say that IC did a better job of maintaining the image/appearance than PRR. > > I rode the City in early 1970, up to Chicago from Columbus, GA, and back the > next day on the same consist. The lead unit was in IC colors but lettered > "Central of Georgia" on the sides, in the IC type style, with no logo of any > kind on the nose. There was a dome (Mopac or Wabash?) in the consist, in IC > colors. I believe all of the cars carried "City of Miami" on the letter > boards, with railroad initials, of various roads, at the ends. > > Ken Briers Maybe uniformity was easier to do because all these cars were dedicated to this train (and just one trainset, right?). Of course, it's known that every winter season when IC leased an NP Vista Dome sleeper, it WAS repainted in IC colors to match the train... > > -----Original Message----- > From: brokenjaw1939 [mailto:bobaud@sbcglobal.net] > Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 2:12 AM > To: PRR@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: More South Wind Questions > > > I had always seen it as a solid > ICRR train. The PRR (and its cohorts) on the other hand, had tcco > scratch for equipment to protect their schedule. Bob, 1. I suppose I wouldn't have used quite the terminology "scratch", but you have a point. Originally, the PRR and the ACL trainsets may have run as distinct and mostly uniform sets; photo evidence suggests this continued through 1950 and maybe as late as 1952. Of course, you are right, either a) the PRR trainset never was dedicated equipment, or else b) it was eventually combined with the rest of the fleet and the Wind was just assembled from whatever Chicago 12th Street had on hand that day. 2. With the possible exception of the Broadway, I doubt any of the trains that originated out of Chicago to New York, to Columbus, to Cincinnati, or to Louisville were dedicated sets. What would be the point? 3. The second observable period in photos show near-solid consists, but seemingly always with the "wrong" units. This may just reflect the perverse tendency of railfans to photograph the freaky; nevertheless, if you look at somebody's slides/prints taken around Louisville in the diesel era, if the units are PRR, the train is stainless Budd? ACL (and maybe with stainless FEC baggage). The other pix are of ACL units, purple-striped, pulling tuscan cars. 3. Then the third observable period (1953 to the 60's?) shows more mixing in the trainsets. Pennsy started stripping tuscan off its stainless steel cars, so that a string of just PRR cars was part tuscan and part gleaming stainless, adding to the "mixed" impression. Also, I think it makes sense that, with passenger traffic dying and with fewer cars coming to Chicago, the South Wind trainsets would get more and more mixed up. 4. As a fourth factor, as the cars got older, maintenance holdbacks were likely more frequent, and this would get cars "out of phase". 4. Certainly MY favorite color photo of the Wind is in the Sixties, with the train northbound just coming down off the big hill at Coalsburg KY. The units are a pair of ACL E-8's; coaches are tuscan; the NP sleeper is gleaming in its 2-tone green, and the sleepers at the rear (owner not obvious) are shining stainless. Looking forward to picking up this thread after Christmas 2004... Meantime I'll be watching for better documentation. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_ac.4f4c6349.2d3c5595_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Funny how the thread on the South W= ind comes alive again with each new January...
I looked at last year's emails on this, and I'm not convinced we know much m= ore than we did last year.  As for me, I've said all along that I don't= know enough about this to even be dangerous... but it is fun to try to corr= elate what's posted with what the railfans in Louisville tell me and show me= in pictures...

In a message dated 1/17/04 8:17:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups= .com writes:


Message: 4
   Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:13:30 -0600
   From: "Briers, Ken" <Ken.Briers@parsons.com>
Subject: RE: Re: More South Wind Questions

I would suggest that the IC train was comprised of cars and locomotives of varying ownership, but they were uniformly painted in IC colors.  This=20= is to
say that IC did a better job of maintaining the image/appearance than PRR.
I rode the City in early 1970, up to Chicago from Columbus, GA, and back the=
next day on the same consist.  The lead unit was in IC colors but lette= red
"Central of Georgia" on the sides, in the IC type style, with no logo of any=
kind on the nose.  There was a dome (Mopac or Wabash?) in the consist,=20= in IC
colors.  I believe all of the cars carried "City of Miami" on the lette= r
boards, with railroad initials, of various roads, at the ends.

Ken Briers


Maybe uniformity was easier to do because all these cars were dedicated to t= his train (and just one trainset, right?).  Of course, it's known that=20= every winter season when IC leased an NP Vista Dome sleeper, it WAS repainte= d in IC colors to match the train...


-----Original Message-----
From: brokenjaw1939 [mailto:bobaud@sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 2:12 AM
To: PRR@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: More South Wind Questions


I had always seen it as a solid
ICRR train. The PRR (and its cohorts) on the other hand, had tcco
scratch for equipment to protect their schedule.


Bob,

1.  I suppose I wouldn't have used quite the terminology "scratch", but= you have a point.  Originally, the PRR and the ACL trainsets may have=20= run as distinct and mostly uniform sets; photo evidence suggests this contin= ued through 1950 and maybe as late as 1952.  Of course, you are right,=20= either
a) the PRR trainset never was dedicated equipment, or else
b) it was eventually combined with the rest of the fleet and the Wind was ju= st assembled from whatever Chicago 12th Street had on hand that day.

2.  With the possible exception of the Broadway, I doubt any of the tra= ins that originated out of Chicago to New York, to Columbus, to Cincinnati,=20= or to Louisville were dedicated sets.  What would be the point?

3.  The second observable period in photos show near-solid consists, bu= t seemingly always with the "wrong" units.  This may just reflect the p= erverse tendency of railfans to photograph the freaky; nevertheless, if you=20= look at somebody's slides/prints taken around Louisville in the diesel era,=20= if the units are PRR, the train is stainless Budd? ACL (and maybe with stain= less FEC baggage).  The other pix are of ACL units, purple-striped, pul= ling tuscan cars.

3.  Then the third observable period (1953 to the 60's?) shows more mix= ing in the trainsets.  Pennsy started stripping tuscan off its stainles= s steel cars, so that a string of just PRR cars was part tuscan and part gle= aming stainless, adding to the "mixed" impression.  Also, I think it ma= kes sense that, with passenger traffic dying and with fewer cars coming to C= hicago, the South Wind trainsets would get more and more mixed up. 
4.  As a fourth factor, as the cars got older, maintenance holdbacks we= re likely more frequent, and this would get cars "out of phase".

4.  Certainly MY favorite color photo of the Wind is in the Sixties, wi= th the train northbound just coming down off the big hill at Coalsburg KY.&n= bsp; The units are a pair of ACL E-8's; coaches are tuscan; the NP sleeper i= s gleaming in its 2-tone green, and the sleepers at the rear (owner not obvi= ous) are shining stainless.

Looking forward to picking up this thread after Christmas 2004...  Mean= time I'll be watching for better documentation.

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_ac.4f4c6349.2d3c5595_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-talk , chascastner@earthlink.net From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] Cincinnati Limited cars (Plan 4140, PRR and L&N) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 16:44:30 -0500 To: RickTipton@aol.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: All.. My passenger car roster allows you to search by plan.. http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/varnish/ I am still working on the photo bibliographies and other data, but all=20= the cars with plan references are there. Have at it! On Jan 18, 2004, at 4:33 PM, RickTipton@aol.com wrote: > > Thanks, Ray.=A0 Do we know the names of the Plan 4140 Rapids cars?=A0=20= > Volume 4 (PRR) of The Official Pullman Standard Library" shows two=20 > were Sangamon Rapids and Towanda Rapids; it does not list the other 16=20= > car names.=A0=A0 The N&W 4140's were listed as McDowell County,=A0 = Buchanan=20 > County, and Sussex County.=A0 Also, the RF&P cars were King George, = King=20 > William, and King & Queen (are these all counties in Virginia?) > > Also, I'm glad you correct the intended routes to New York-Louisville,=20= > -Nashville, and -Memphis.=A0 I knew "Birmingham" was wrong about as = soon=20 > as I sent that message.=A0 I'm still looking for confirmation that all=20= > three Pullman routes (definitely via Pittsburgh, Columbus, and=20 > Cincinnati) were served as connections to PRR's Cincinnati Limited=20 > (Numbers 40 and 41). > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: v-scarpitti@att.net Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] South Wind (again this year) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 21:45:36 +0000 > > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:13:30 -0600 > > Subject: RE: Re: More South Wind Questions > > Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: More South Wind Questions From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 20:32:05 EST Subject: [PRR] Renovo on eBay I stumbled across a large number of Renovo postcards with excellent railroad content being sold on eBay. Try the link below or do an eBay search on Renovo. http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?query=renovo&catref=C3& socolumnlayout=3&from=R2&sacategory=914&BasicSearch= Lee Rainey --part1_105.3de591b8.2d3c8d95_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" I stumbled across a large number of= Renovo postcards with excellent railroad content being sold on eBay. Try th= e link below or do an eBay search on Renovo.

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?query=3Drenovo&catref=3DC3&= socolumnlayout=3D3&from=3DR2&sacategory=3D914&BasicSearch=3D

Lee Rainey --part1_105.3de591b8.2d3c8d95_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 22:11:48 EST Subject: [PRR] ECW Oven Baked -- NOT! Okay, here it is. After perfecting the temperature control of the oven last evening. (The better half said I could have made Thanksgiving dinner in the time I took. Women!) Don't try the parts on a cookie sheet. The trial was started at 130 degrees then stepped up in five degree increments. Each time the part was removed until the temp. was stable at the new temperature then put back in and left for ten minutes. To make a short story long, at 155 it just started showing signs of flattening after about three minute when all of a sudden the floor began to shrivel up starting at the center. Before it could be removed it twisted laterally at the mid point and necked down. Very interesting was that at the points where the floor was cut free of the sprue, the styrene shrunk in deeply in nice little vee shapes. The floor is now completely useless unless I switch to modeling the Fiddletown & Copperopolis. Will try to correct one of the other floors by the hot water method a list member suggested. But that will be Thursday night. About the trucks and different wheel sets. The axle pockets are too large for the IM ball bearing axles. Both Kadee and P2K 36" sets fit nicely once the bolster had its width reduced to 27/32" over the sides. Both wheel sets rolled very nicely. One "gotcha" with the trucks is that the bolsters molds are not aligned and the hole in the top of the bolster is offset from the hole in the bottom. This was easily corrected by milling a large hole through on center then filling with Evergreen rod and drilling a new hole. What is really annoying about this is that I picked up a few ECW kits made years ago, both heavyweights and streamlined, at an estate sale last year and they have very little to no warp in them. What happened to ECW quality control? Were the ECW coaches originally made by ALCO Models? Have several of the ALCO Pennsy P70 coaches that were easy to put together, even the clerestory roofs. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1074481908 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Okay, here it is.  After perfecting the temperature control o= f the oven last evening.  (The better half said I could have made Thank= sgiving dinner in the time I took.  Women!)
 
Don't try the parts on a cookie sheet.  The trial was started at 1= 30 degrees then stepped up in five degree increments.  Each time the pa= rt was removed until the temp. was stable at the new temperature then put ba= ck in and left for ten minutes.  To make a short story long,=20= at 155 it just started showing signs of flattening after about thr= ee minute when all of a sudden the floor began to shrivel up starting a= t the center.  Before it could be removed it twisted laterally at the m= id point and necked down.  Very interesting was that at=20= the points where the floor was cut free of the sprue, the styrene shrunk in=20= deeply in nice little vee shapes. The floor is now completely useless unless= I switch to modeling the Fiddletown & Copperopolis. <G>
 
Will try to correct one of the other floors by the hot water method a l= ist member suggested.  But that will be Thursday night.
 
About the trucks and different wheel sets.  The axle pockets are t= oo large for the IM ball bearing axles.  Both Kadee and P2K 36" sets fi= t nicely once the bolster had its width reduced to 27/32" over the sides.&nb= sp; Both wheel sets rolled very nicely.  One "gotcha" with the trucks i= s that the bolsters molds are not aligned and the hole in the top of the bol= ster is offset from the hole in the bottom.  This was easily corrected=20= by milling a large hole through on center then filling with Evergreen r= od and drilling a new hole.
 
What is really annoying about this is that I picked up a few ECW k= its made years ago, both heavyweights and streamlined, at an estat= e sale last year and they have very little to no warp in them.  What ha= ppened to ECW quality control?
 
Were the ECW coaches originally made by ALCO Models?  Have several= of the ALCO Pennsy P70 coaches that were easy to put together, even the cle= restory roofs.

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1074481908-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 22:19:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] BLI T-1 Tender Troubles. MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi List.... Has anyone having trouble getting the tender body off their T-1. According to the instructions, the tender is snap fitted and SUPPOSED to come off with ease. Well we have three on our layout and we can't get any of the tender bodies to release from the frame. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks in advance. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 21:43:53 -0600 (CST) Subject: [PRR] BLI T1 Tender From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Evening y'all, My apoligies - I've lost the origianl message, but some (Dave?) was asking about the BLI T1 tender... I struggled with mine for 3 days, then figured it out. 1) Remove the "plate" from the front end (it is a press fit) 2) Lay the tender on its side on a mar proof sufact (sitting on the floor, it was my leg). 3) Pull the top of the tender and the tongue that holds the drawbar pin in opposite directions. PULL HARD (but no too hard) and it should come right apart. Good Luck Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ed Price" Subject: [PRR] T-1 decoder problems Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 00:04:24 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned for spam. Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Greetings all, Anyone having any problems with theeir T-1 decoder? When I got mine is would not run even though their was sound. After fumbling with the tender I was able to do the factory reset and got things moving. Functions 0-4 work but the reset do not appear to do anything especially F-8 which is the mute. If I stop the loco and play with the higher functions once again the loco will not move. I must once again to the factory reset. Any suggestions? Ed ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI T-1 Tender Troubles. Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 06:25:35 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Dave: I had the same problem but , finally, did manage to get the thing off. It is IMPOSSIBLE to remove the tender shell as explained by BLI. Reason....there is NO WAY to grab the chassis. You must put a small object (preferably something flat like the flat surface of a pair of tweezers), into the hole where the wires come out and pry against the floor. This will probably crack the tender shell at the coal bunker doors, but this is the only way to remove the shell. The fit is WAY too tight. Getting it back on is no picnic either. The good news is that the crack will not be seen once the tender is joined to the loco. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 10:19 PM Subject: [PRR] BLI T-1 Tender Troubles. > Hi List.... > > Has anyone having trouble getting the tender body off their > T-1. According to the instructions, the tender is snap fitted and > SUPPOSED to come off with ease. Well we have three on our layout and we > can't get any of the tender bodies to release from the frame. Any > suggestions are appreciated. > Thanks in advance. > > Dave Hopson > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 06:33:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI T1 Tender MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Thanks Bruce, We also have had decoder trouble with all three T1s that are on the layout. All three seem to just shut down. Thats why we were trying to get the tenders bodies off. Used everything except a blow torch to remove the tender body.We had to reprogram every funtion to get them runing again. That was fun.:-( Now we have the task of changing out the blind drivers for the flanged ones. Thanks again. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Park Varieties" Subject: Re: [PRR] ECW Oven Baked -- NOT! Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 07:30:12 -0500 Evan, The ECW P70 coach kits were indeed designed and marketed originally by = Alco Models. The PS kits were developed and marketed by E&B Valley. Frank Brua ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RDG2124@aol.com=20 To: PassengerCarList@yahoogroups.com ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com ; = Reading-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 10:11 PM Subject: [PRR] ECW Oven Baked -- NOT! Okay, here it is. After perfecting the temperature control of the = oven last evening. (The better half said I could have made Thanksgiving = dinner in the time I took. Women!) Don't try the parts on a cookie sheet. The trial was started at 130 = degrees then stepped up in five degree increments. Each time the part = was removed until the temp. was stable at the new temperature then put = back in and left for ten minutes. To make a short story long, at 155 it = just started showing signs of flattening after about three minute when = all of a sudden the floor began to shrivel up starting at the center. = Before it could be removed it twisted laterally at the mid point and = necked down. Very interesting was that at the points where the floor = was cut free of the sprue, the styrene shrunk in deeply in nice little = vee shapes. The floor is now completely useless unless I switch to = modeling the Fiddletown & Copperopolis. Will try to correct one of the other floors by the hot water method a = list member suggested. But that will be Thursday night. About the trucks and different wheel sets. The axle pockets are too = large for the IM ball bearing axles. Both Kadee and P2K 36" sets fit = nicely once the bolster had its width reduced to 27/32" over the sides. = Both wheel sets rolled very nicely. One "gotcha" with the trucks is = that the bolsters molds are not aligned and the hole in the top of the = bolster is offset from the hole in the bottom. This was easily = corrected by milling a large hole through on center then filling with = Evergreen rod and drilling a new hole. What is really annoying about this is that I picked up a few ECW kits = made years ago, both heavyweights and streamlined, at an estate sale = last year and they have very little to no warp in them. What happened = to ECW quality control? Were the ECW coaches originally made by ALCO Models? Have several of = the ALCO Pennsy P70 coaches that were easy to put together, even the = clerestory roofs. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C3DE5E.135A6850 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Evan,
 
The ECW P70 coach  kits were indeed designed and marketed = originally=20 by  Alco Models. The PS kits were
developed and marketed by E&B Valley.
Frank Brua
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 RDG2124@aol.com=20
To: PassengerCarList@yahoogr= oups.com=20 ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com ; Reading-Talk@dsop.com
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 = 10:11=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] ECW Oven Baked = --=20 NOT!

Okay, here it is.  After perfecting the temperature = control of=20 the oven last evening.  (The better half said I could have made=20 Thanksgiving dinner in the time I took.  Women!)
 
Don't try the parts on a cookie sheet.  The trial was = started at 130=20 degrees then stepped up in five degree increments.  Each time the = part=20 was removed until the temp. was stable at the new temperature then put = back=20 in and left for ten minutes.  To make a short story = long, at=20 155 it just started showing signs of flattening after about = three=20 minute when all of a sudden the floor began to shrivel up = starting at the=20 center.  Before it could be removed it twisted laterally at the = mid point=20 and necked down.  Very interesting was that at the = points=20 where the floor was cut free of the sprue, the styrene shrunk in = deeply in=20 nice little vee shapes. The floor is now completely useless unless I = switch to=20 modeling the Fiddletown & Copperopolis. <G>
 
Will try to correct one of the other floors by the hot water = method a=20 list member suggested.  But that will be Thursday night.
 
About the trucks and different wheel sets.  The axle pockets = are too=20 large for the IM ball bearing axles.  Both Kadee and P2K 36" sets = fit=20 nicely once the bolster had its width reduced to 27/32" over the = sides. =20 Both wheel sets rolled very nicely.  One "gotcha" with the trucks = is that=20 the bolsters molds are not aligned and the hole in the top of the = bolster is=20 offset from the hole in the bottom.  This was easily corrected by = milling=20 a large hole through on center then filling with Evergreen rod = and=20 drilling a new hole.
 
What is really annoying about this is that I picked up a few = ECW=20 kits made years ago, both heavyweights and streamlined, at = an estate=20 sale last year and they have very little to no warp in them.  = What=20 happened to ECW quality control?
 
Were the ECW coaches originally made by ALCO Models?  Have = several=20 of the ALCO Pennsy P70 coaches that were easy to put together, even = the=20 clerestory roofs.

Evan = Leisey
RCT&HS=20 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) = 2036
CNJ
------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C3DE5E.135A6850-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walter Prusick" Subject: [PRR] ECW oven baked...NOT Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 08:12:39 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Evan and all, A few months back I encountered a similar problem on an FAR and posted my problem (twisted sides and floor) on this site. Fortunatly I was dissuaded from using the "bake" method in favor of using brass angle to straighten the twisting. Took a fair amount of time and a few clamps but my coach is twist free, square, plumb and level. The only problem encountered was shimming the seats, as the brass angle near the sides at the floor caused a distinct cant to my seats. Easily solved by shimming, wouldn't want the paying public to fall onto the floor. Take care, Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1 decoder problems Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 08:15:11 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Ed: Please see my reply to the Digitrax list concerning this problem. This should sum it up! "Well, it looks like Manfred was right on when he suggested that F5 thru F8 may be toggling F9 to F12. Testing the sounds, I get exactly what Manfred said I would. My DCS100 is five plus years old, so it could need to be up-graded. I'll probably buy a new one and switch the old one with Jeff Warner when he's not looking! Seriously, I was going to add another DB150 anyway, so I'll just change the old DCS100 over to a booster." I hope this helps. I've had problems since the beginning and have even gone as far to buy another T1 thinking that my first one was defective. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Price" To: Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 12:04 AM Subject: [PRR] T-1 decoder problems > Greetings all, > > Anyone having any problems with theeir T-1 decoder? > > When I got mine is would not run even though their was sound. After > fumbling with the tender I was able to do the factory reset and got things > moving. Functions 0-4 work but the reset do not appear to do anything > especially F-8 which is the mute. If I stop the loco and play with the > higher functions once again the loco will not move. I must once again to > the factory reset. > > Any suggestions? > > > Ed > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:52:30 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Timonium Show This Saturday From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <1B4DE45B-4A8F-11D8-B644-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Anyone doing the Timonium Show this Saturday? This tends to be the best of the four shows of the year, so I try to make it. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 10:07:53 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1 decoder problems From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Timonium Show This Saturday Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 10:07:38 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List Guys, I'll be there all weekend selling for work and with some friends. For work, we are debuting our new Viaduct kit in HO. I'm already working on the N scale version so don't be disappointed. See you there! -John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 10:25:59 -0500 Subject: [PRR] T1 Test Run From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Saturday I had my BLI T1 over to Bob Martin's layout for a test run... His layout generally has wide sweeping curves -- about 40" -- although at one location there is a @ 24" radius "kink" to allow continuous running on an otherwise point-to-point layout. Grades are over 2% in spots. Running light, the T1 ran beautiful, looked beautiful, and sounded beautiful. Well done, BLI! After making a few laps (200' or so) running light, we put a pre-assembled train on the back. The T had absolutely no trouble pulling it around the curves and up grades. In fact, using Digitrax, throttle was only up to about 32% going uphill. Had only five cars on. But we ran into complications unrelated to the T. Two of the cars kept uncoupling and had to be removed. They were Red Caboose RtR X29's with McHenry couplers. The couplers kept opening up. Down to three cars we proceeded again. Next thing I knew there was another uncoupling. The cover plate on a coupler box on a Centralia Car Shops P85b just "fell off" and allowed the coupler to fall right off the car!!! Okay, down to two cars... a Walthers R50b and a Spectrum business car. No problem... nor should there be! Unfortunately we ran out of time as it was time for the op session to start. Will have to do some coupler work on rolling stock. Will plan further tests, though by then many other reports will have already been in, making it a moot point. Plus, the M1's will be out! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 10:51:42 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR archaeology, again. X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-5,7-14 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: aurora7@juno.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: PRR cut up most of it's own steam fleet on it's own property. I'm assuming this was inside the Altoona shops property, since virtually no photographs have turned up of Pennsy steam being torched seem to exist. If that was in the yard, I'm wondering if anyone has walked that land, kicking over the soil for dropped bits and pieces of ex-locos? Does anyone have a mechanical drawing, diagram, etc., of the classic Pennsy four-legged marker light? Does anyone cast full-size replicas? Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "There are no stupid questions, but there are many inquisitive idiots." ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 10:54:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 Test Run MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry and list.... Once we did get the T1 running, we tested them on 10 and 15 cars trains. We had only one problem with the blind drivers shorting on a curved switch on track 4. Other then that , they ran fine. We double headed them and that was real nice. They looked great! I do think that the sound was a bit to loud. I like the bright headlights they come with. And it's the correct golden glow for steam locomotives and not the bright white of modern diesels. Even though I model 1960s PRR, it was fun running the T1s. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 11:37:27 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI Mountains Jerry: I received my invoice last Monday with a Jan 30 ship date. Rich --part1_148.20cbc3bd.2d3d61c7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Jerry:

I received my invoice last Monday with a Jan 30 ship date.

Rich --part1_148.20cbc3bd.2d3d61c7_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Erie Built Parts Status Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:48:23 +0000 Cc: PRR-Talk LIST From: David Wartell Subject: Re: [PRR] Timonium Show This Saturday Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 11:51:34 -0500 To: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I am planning to go. I have a short wishlist this time, unlike the past couple of shows. Dave djwartel@comcast.net On Jan 19, 2004, at 9:52 AM, Jerry Britton wrote: > Anyone doing the Timonium Show this Saturday? > > This tends to be the best of the four shows of the year, so I try to > make it. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bennett Levin" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR archaeology, again. Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:04:53 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: An issue of the Lionel Mag, Model Builder had a photo Story of the scrapping of PRR locomotives including great photographs. I seem to recall a large sheer reducing iron to "bite size". ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 7:51 AM Subject: [PRR] PRR archaeology, again. > PRR cut up most of it's own steam fleet on it's own property. I'm > assuming this was inside the Altoona shops property, since virtually no > photographs have turned up of Pennsy steam being torched seem to exist. > If that was in the yard, I'm wondering if anyone has walked that land, > kicking over the soil for dropped bits and pieces of ex-locos? > > Does anyone have a mechanical drawing, diagram, etc., of the classic > Pennsy four-legged marker light? Does anyone cast full-size replicas? > > > Richard Glueck > Peace of the Planet Farm > Winterport, Maine > "There are no stupid questions, > but there are many inquisitive idiots." > > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:09:56 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR archaeology, again. Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Greetings to Richard, Jerry and the list: I'm thinking that probably only a tedious tallying of the disposition information on the equipment betterment and depreciation cards in the state archives at Harrisburg can give us a true fix on what percentage of engines were scrapped by PRR vs. sold for scrap to others. Photos certainly exist -- though not often published -- of retired PRR engines awaiting scrapping at commercial scrapyards in Modena and Sharpsburg, Pa., and Weirton, W.Va. As for the quantity of photos, remember that when steam left, many fans put down their cameras and gave up -- this was the period when TRAINS magazine's circulation plummeted and nobody knew, at that day, if the hobby could survive without steam. I suspect that the fans who still carried cameras simply self-censored their photography -- by choosing not to record the painful sight of beloved steamers sitting whitelined or being cut up. Re: archaeology -- I know a fan who found (and saved) a T1 siderod buried in the cinders at Altoona. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. ------------------------------------------------ aurora7@juno.com wrote: >PRR cut up most of it's own steam fleet on it's own property. I'm >assuming this was inside the Altoona shops property, since virtually no >photographs have turned up of Pennsy steam being torched seem to exist. >If that was in the yard, I'm wondering if anyone has walked that land, >kicking over the soil for dropped bits and pieces of ex-locos? > >Richard Glueck >Peace of the Planet Farm >Winterport, Maine > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bennett Levin" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR archaeology, again. Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:29:25 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Some A's and B's were cut up at a scrap yard in 1949 just south of the Tacony Bridge on the Phila side where the mausoleum is today. It used to be a scrap yard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Cupper" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 9:09 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR archaeology, again. > Greetings to Richard, Jerry and the list: > > I'm thinking that probably only a tedious tallying of the disposition > information on the equipment betterment and depreciation cards in the > state archives at Harrisburg can give us a true fix on what percentage > of engines were scrapped by PRR vs. sold for scrap to others. Photos > certainly exist -- though not often published -- of retired PRR engines > awaiting scrapping at commercial scrapyards in Modena and Sharpsburg, > Pa., and Weirton, W.Va. As for the quantity of photos, remember that > when steam left, many fans put down their cameras and gave up -- this > was the period when TRAINS magazine's circulation plummeted and nobody > knew, at that day, if the hobby could survive without steam. I suspect > that the fans who still carried cameras simply self-censored their > photography -- by choosing not to record the painful sight of beloved > steamers sitting whitelined or being cut up. > > Re: archaeology -- I know a fan who found (and saved) a T1 siderod > buried in the cinders at Altoona. > > Dan Cupper > Harrisburg, Pa. > ------------------------------------------------ > aurora7@juno.com wrote: > > >PRR cut up most of it's own steam fleet on it's own property. I'm > >assuming this was inside the Altoona shops property, since virtually no > >photographs have turned up of Pennsy steam being torched seem to exist. > >If that was in the yard, I'm wondering if anyone has walked that land, > >kicking over the soil for dropped bits and pieces of ex-locos? > > > >Richard Glueck > >Peace of the Planet Farm > >Winterport, Maine > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] 1948 Broadway Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 13:06:31 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gents, I've been flipping through some passenger car books lately and have some questions that hopefully can be answered. I was looking at the consist of the 1948 Broadway limited and noted that two Pullman cars were in consist. The "Bahama" a 7-compartment, 2-Drawing Room car, and the "Elm Queen" a 12-Roomette, 2-Single Bedroom, #-Double Bedroom car. Where can i find the Pullman plan numbers for these cars as well as drawings with the floorplan and car sides? Also, in the consist there were two D82AR Diners, could I substitute a twin-unit diner in consist? If so, what class? Thanks for any and all help. -John ---------------------------------------------------------- Member PRRT&HS #7237, Northern Central Chapter Member Miniature Railroad Club of York #161 Dispatcher for the York Connecting Railroad Superintendent of the Tuckahoe Valley Railroad Route of the "Golden Arrow" ----------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 13:40:04 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] 1948 Broadway From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Monday, January 19, 2004, at 01:06 PM, John Frantz wrote: > I've been flipping through some passenger car books lately and have > some questions that hopefully can be answered. > I was looking at the consist of the 1948 Broadway limited and noted > that two Pullman cars were in consist. The "Bahama" a 7-compartment, > 2-Drawing Room car, and the "Elm Queen" a 12-Roomette, 2-Single > Bedroom, #-Double Bedroom car. I suspect two things for the consist info you are looking at: 1) It was before the Pullman breakup when many of the cars' ownership was transferred to the railroads. The BAHAMA and the ELM QUEEN were not transferred to the PRR. > > Where can i find the Pullman plan numbers for these cars as well as > drawings with the floorplan and car sides? I have a complete Pullman roster at home that would have the plan numbers, but I do not have drawings. Also bear in mind that during 1948 and 1949 the PRR built hundreds of new passenger cars. I suspect that by late 1948 the above two heavyweights would have been replaced with lightweight cars. > > Also, in the consist there were two D82AR Diners, could I substitute a > twin-unit diner in consist? If so, what class? Once the twin units were built, yes, the BL did have a set. If you are dating your train late enough for the twin units, you might upgrade the above two heavyweights as well, for consistency. The BL was protected by twin units D85c #'s 4620 and 4622 and by D85d #'s 4621 and 4623. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 13:43:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] 1948 Broadway MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: John, Bahama: Plan 2522a Diagram 47 Elm Queen: Plan 4158 Diagram 293 Info is from "Pullman Company List of Cars" I think these cars are Heavyweight sleepers own by Pullman. Hope this helps. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 13:56:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] 1948 Broadway MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: John, Dig out that back issue of the Keystone that contained info on the Braodway. I am sure your dad would have that issue. December 1979. Vol XII #4. Lots of diagrams, including Pullman Plan numbers, of the original '48 consist plus consist info into the mid-late 60's....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Martin Skrzetuszewski" Subject: Re: [PRR] 1948 Broadway Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:04:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi John, Sorry I cannot help with drawings - I am looking for those myself. As far as plan/diagram numbers is concerned, "Pullman Company List of Cars 1950", Wayner Publications gives: Bahama plan 2522A, diagram 47, MB air cond., owned by Pullman in 1950. Elm Queen - plan 4158, diagram 293, MB air cond., owned by Pullman in 1950. Regards, Martin Skrzetuszewski ----- Original Message ----- From: John Frantz To: Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 6:06 PM Subject: [PRR] 1948 Broadway > Gents, > > I've been flipping through some passenger car books lately > and have some questions that hopefully can be answered. > > I was looking at the consist of the 1948 Broadway limited > and noted that two Pullman cars were in consist. The > "Bahama" a 7-compartment, 2-Drawing Room car, and the "Elm > Queen" a 12-Roomette, 2-Single Bedroom, #-Double Bedroom > car. > > Where can i find the Pullman plan numbers for these cars > as well as drawings with the floorplan and car sides? > > Also, in the consist there were two D82AR Diners, could I > substitute a twin-unit diner in consist? If so, what > class? > > Thanks for any and all help. > -John > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Member PRRT&HS #7237, Northern Central Chapter > Member Miniature Railroad Club of York #161 > Dispatcher for the York Connecting Railroad > Superintendent of the Tuckahoe Valley Railroad > Route of the "Golden Arrow" > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] 1948 Broadway Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 13:20:15 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" > Once the twin units were built, yes, the BL did have a set. If you are > dating your train late enough for the twin units, you might upgrade the > above two heavyweights as well, for consistency. Yeah, but then he'd miss the fun of a real rainbow coalition Broadway. Two heavyweights in whatever color, Imperial Point in Pullman two tone gray, three new ACF Inn series cars in the postwar tuscan scheme, dunno about the diners, but the last 6 prewar lightweight cars almost surely still in Fleet of Modernism. By the end of the year, proably all except Metropolitan View replaced with 1948 cars, as you indicated. BTW, I haven't looked at the data (having trouble with Adobe and downloads right now), but are we sure Elm Queen is a heavyweight? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] 1948 Broadway Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 14:25:00 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gents, Thanks so far for the information. Its always fun to know how to stir the pot for information. Just some wayside comments, I pulled the consist out of the book "Pennsylvania Streamliners" and it is the make-up for September 30th, 1948 Train #28. I'm strongly considering building the train in HO to rival my fathers' 1928 Broadway he's working on right now. Using the info Jamie passed on below, could I take a Rivarossi 12-1 and convert it to the Elm Queen using New England parts? Once again, thanks for the plethora of information. -John Jamie wrote: John, The Pullmans are not PRR cars. "A Century of Pullman Cars Vol 1" says Elm Queen is a 12 rmt, 2 single bedroom, 3 double bedroom car from 4844 of plan 4158. Wayner's "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" says it was rebuilt form the "McKelvie", a 12-1, in August 1948. With no other owners listed I would assume Pullman owned this one all along. "Bahama" is from lot 4222 and is plan 2522A. The Wayner book says it was built in November 1913 and was sold for scrap in 1960. It also has no other owners listed, so it too was probably a Pullman owned car its entire life. I'll try to track down photos and plans later today. Jamie Bothwell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 14:28:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] 1948 Broadway MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi again John, The drawings,photos and floorplans for the Pullman cars "Bahama" and "Elm Queen" are in the book: "Passenger Car Catalog- Pullman Operated Equipment 1912-1949". It's a long shot but you may find this book in Timonium this weekend. Hope this helps. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 14:47:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] 1948 Broadway MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: John, Just thought you should know that the "Elm Queen" was assigned to the New York Central in 1948. Good chance it was a trans-con car from the west car returning on the PRR. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 14:51:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] 1948 Broadway MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: John, I just thought you should know that the "Elm Queen" was assigned to the New York Central RR in 1948. Might be a trans-con car returning from the west on the PRR. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] 1948 Broadway Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:14:37 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: John: Are you sure about this? I've searched all my info and come up blank. These names don't seem to exist for the PRR under lightweights, heavyweights or even wooden cars. They sound like heavyweights, but that would not fit the 48 BWL. I've looked at the assignment of sleeping cars from the New York Division for eastward and westward trains and come up with nothing. I've also checked the makeup of train consists from that era and nothing. Also, the floor plans as you described, don't look like the Pennsy in 1948. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Frantz" To: Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 1:06 PM Subject: [PRR] 1948 Broadway > Gents, > > I've been flipping through some passenger car books lately > and have some questions that hopefully can be answered. > > I was looking at the consist of the 1948 Broadway limited > and noted that two Pullman cars were in consist. The > "Bahama" a 7-compartment, 2-Drawing Room car, and the "Elm > Queen" a 12-Roomette, 2-Single Bedroom, #-Double Bedroom > car. > > Where can i find the Pullman plan numbers for these cars > as well as drawings with the floorplan and car sides? > > Also, in the consist there were two D82AR Diners, could I > substitute a twin-unit diner in consist? If so, what > class? > > Thanks for any and all help. > -John > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Member PRRT&HS #7237, Northern Central Chapter > Member Miniature Railroad Club of York #161 > Dispatcher for the York Connecting Railroad > Superintendent of the Tuckahoe Valley Railroad > Route of the "Golden Arrow" > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Martin Skrzetuszewski" Subject: Re: [PRR] 1948 Broadway Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:21:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: John, If it helps, there is a shot of one side of Elm Field (same details as Elm Queen in 1950) in plate 58 on page 52 of the PRRHTS Passenger Car Painting & Lettering book. Martin Skrzetuszewski ----- Original Message ----- From: John Frantz To: Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] 1948 Broadway > Gents, > > Thanks so far for the information. Its always fun to know > how to stir the pot for information. > > Just some wayside comments, I pulled the consist out of > the book "Pennsylvania Streamliners" and it is the make-up > for September 30th, 1948 Train #28. I'm strongly > considering building the train in HO to rival my fathers' > 1928 Broadway he's working on right now. > > Using the info Jamie passed on below, could I take a > Rivarossi 12-1 and convert it to the Elm Queen using New > England parts? > > Once again, thanks for the plethora of information. > -John > > Jamie wrote: > > John, > The Pullmans are not PRR cars. "A Century of Pullman > Cars Vol 1" says Elm Queen is a 12 rmt, 2 single bedroom, > 3 double bedroom car from 4844 of plan 4158. Wayner's > "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" says it > was rebuilt form the "McKelvie", a 12-1, in August 1948. > With no other owners listed I would assume Pullman > owned > this one all > along. "Bahama" is from lot 4222 and is plan 2522A. The > Wayner book says it was built in November 1913 and was > sold for scrap in 1960. It also has no other owners > listed, so it too was probably a Pullman owned car its > entire life. I'll try to track down photos and plans > later today. > Jamie Bothwell > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] 1948 Broadway Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:22:22 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Larry, The Bahama and Elm Queen I understood to be Pullman Company cars not on the PRR Roster. When I get home tonight I'll jump back on to cite the book and page number. It's possible that the book chose a consist that was unusual in the cars that were in the consist. -John Larry wrote: John: Are you sure about this? I've searched all my info and come up blank. These names don't seem to exist for the PRR under lightweights, heavyweights or even wooden cars. They sound like heavyweights, but that would not fit the 48 BWL. I've looked at the assignment of sleeping cars from the New York Division for eastward and westward trains and come up with nothing. I've also checked the makeup of train consists from that era and nothing. Also, the floor plans as you described, don't look like the Pennsy in 1948. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Frantz" To: Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 1:06 PM Subject: [PRR] 1948 Broadway > Gents, > > I've been flipping through some passenger car books >lately > and have some questions that hopefully can be answered. > > I was looking at the consist of the 1948 Broadway limited > and noted that two Pullman cars were in consist. The > "Bahama" a 7-compartment, 2-Drawing Room car, and the >"Elm > Queen" a 12-Roomette, 2-Single Bedroom, #-Double Bedroom > car. > > Where can i find the Pullman plan numbers for these cars > as well as drawings with the floorplan and car sides? > > Also, in the consist there were two D82AR Diners, could I > substitute a twin-unit diner in consist? If so, what > class? > > Thanks for any and all help. > -John > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Member PRRT&HS #7237, Northern Central Chapter > Member Miniature Railroad Club of York #161 > Dispatcher for the York Connecting Railroad > Superintendent of the Tuckahoe Valley Railroad > Route of the "Golden Arrow" > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit >http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:02:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR Coaling Tower MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Guys, Although I didn't email back each individual who provided tips on the Coaling Tower paint job, I do appreciate the notes. Even the few that recommended I "dip" the Tower. Thanks. Well, the Tower is completed! Yes, surprisingly so, I finished it late Sunday night. I figured I would have this is my hands for several weeks at least for sure. I was anxious to get started and was even more anxious to complete it after the first night of airbrushing. Thank goodness for quick drying Polyscale! I just completed a webpage showing a dozen or so views. If you care to view, just visit: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/Tower.html Once again, Thanks for the notes......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] 1948 Broadway Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:53:58 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Agreed. Being updated all private room cars, I guess the two heavyweights would be eligible for backup service on the Broadway. Wonder if both cars were Pullman green. Several videos in the era show at least one heavyweight Pullman in green next to the Sante Fe through sleeper behind the RPO and baggage dorm car on the Broadway. I had asked a while ago on PCL list if that was an extra coast-to-coast car to handle overflow traffic, but Andy Sperandeo from the Sante Fe side wasn't convinced there ever was that heavy a load for a second car, to his knowledge. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jamie Bothwell" > > but are we sure Elm Queen is a heavyweight? > > > > Bob, > Yes. Three sources point to it being such. > Jamie Bothwell > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Hough " Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:27:05 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Scrapped engines From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:31:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] 1948 Broadway MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The "Bahama" heavyweight sleeper was assigned the PRR but the "Elm Queen" was assigned the to New York Central RR. The entire "Elm" series (Plan 4158) were all Pullman owned NYC service cars. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Craig Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Scrapped engines Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:42:54 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I recall seeing pictures of PRR engines being scrapped in Aspinwall, PA (Northern side of the Allegheny River, under the Brilliant Branch bridge, where it tied in with the Conemaugh Line), don't know if that's where the majority went though. There is still a scrapyard in business there, with many old Conrail cars meeting the torch. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Hough " To: Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 7:27 PM Subject: [PRR] Scrapped engines > > I'm trying to post one more time. Someone respond so I know my posts > are getting out................. > So far only my intro showed up > > My grandfather, Ralph Hough was the plant General Manager of > Bethelems Johnstown PA plant from 38-52. During the war they scrapped > many B&O steamers. > I have some early Kodachrome of them sitting in the scrap line. When > I was a kid dad and he would talk about steel and how the PRR never > sent locos to Johnstown. As there was a fixed price for scrap there > was no bidding. Did the PRR favor their original steel suppliers? > Thanks, Ken H > > Ken Hough Photographic Repair > Specializing in Deardorff repair and refinishing > Shutter repair and Lens recementing > Custom machine work > www.deardorffcameras.0catch.com > 219-462-0281 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] Kadee Couple Clone Problem (was T1 Test Run) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:00:13 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry Britton wrote: They were Red Caboose RtR X29's with McHenry couplers. The couplers kept opening up. One problem that the Kadee clones with integral plastic knuckle springs have is that the spring eventually loses its tension, causing the coupler knuckle to stay open. You have no option but to throw away the coupler and replace it. McHenry did revise their design to include a separate knuckle spring (a la Kadee). Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] RE: [PRR-Modeling] Re: PRR Coaling Tower Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:09:40 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <1930-400C53DF-2417@storefull-3114.bay.webtv.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Priceless is an understatement. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:21:05 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Kadee Couple Clone Problem Ben and list, Don't throw away those Kadee clones that failed. Just CCA them closed, cut the coupler pins off and you have a nice unit train coupler. That is one sure way to keep'em closed. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1074565265 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Ben and list,
 
  Don't throw away those Kadee clones that failed.  Just CCA=20= them closed, cut the coupler pins off and you have a nice unit train coupler= .  That is one sure way to keep'em closed.

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1074565265-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: [PRR] The next GG1: Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:26:02 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-SLUIDL: 6922BA59-DDA74772-92FDBA80-DA06B2A4 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The next big wave of GG1's is coming. LGB has announced two. 4935 in Brunswick Green (their description) 4877 in Tuscan Red Get that extra job now - Cos Wayne S. Betty Cos Communications, Inc. Small business IT services. Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone Tracking #: C246516DDB4F574DBC35D131AEC0D29CFAA65764 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Christopher Baker" Subject: RE: [PRR] 1948 Broadway Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:28:29 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <001001c3dec1$4543c6f0$6401a8c0@ownery8cl2csk3> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The two D82AR dining cars #4512 and #4517 were pre-war single-unit Pullman-Standard cars delivered to the PRR in the summer of 1939. They were operated kitchen-to-kitchen in the consist. Chris Baker PRRT&HS #1918 -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Bob Zoeller Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 2:20 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] 1948 Broadway ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" > Once the twin units were built, yes, the BL did have a set. If you are > dating your train late enough for the twin units, you might upgrade the > above two heavyweights as well, for consistency. Yeah, but then he'd miss the fun of a real rainbow coalition Broadway. Two heavyweights in whatever color, Imperial Point in Pullman two tone gray, three new ACF Inn series cars in the postwar tuscan scheme, dunno about the diners, but the last 6 prewar lightweight cars almost surely still in Fleet of Modernism. By the end of the year, proably all except Metropolitan View replaced with 1948 cars, as you indicated. BTW, I haven't looked at the data (having trouble with Adobe and downloads right now), but are we sure Elm Queen is a heavyweight? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 22:35:13 -0500 From: Garry Spear Subject: [Fwd: Re: [PRR] 1948 Broadway] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Guz, The two cars in question were, according to the Pullman records, always Pullman owned, never in railroad ownership. Here are answer's to many Pullman questions: http://home.att.net/~pullmanproject/index.htm This will present you with the opportunity to download a xls spread sheet with Pullman information. ELM QUEEN was a 4158 Plan car and drawings for the Plan are in RMC Jun. 1972 and MLM Mar. 1987. The MLM has a floor plan. This is a very interesting plan; a heavyweight car with roomettes and bedrooms. New England Rail Service makes (or is planning to) a conversion kit for the AHM 12-1. http://varnish.pennsyrr.com/PRRModel.html About halfway down the page there is a link to pictures of my model of ELM FIELDS. Bahama was a Plan 2522C and drawings for this Plan are in the MLM Apr. 1985. Lots of luck with this car. Garry Spear John Frantz wrote: > Gents, > > I've been flipping through some passenger car books lately and have some > questions that hopefully can be answered. > I was looking at the consist of the 1948 Broadway limited and noted that > two Pullman cars were in consist. The "Bahama" a 7-compartment, > 2-Drawing Room car, and the "Elm Queen" a 12-Roomette, 2-Single Bedroom, > #-Double Bedroom car. > > Where can i find the Pullman plan numbers for these cars as well as > drawings with the floorplan and car sides? > > Also, in the consist there were two D82AR Diners, could I substitute a > twin-unit diner in consist? If so, what class? > > Thanks for any and all help. > -John > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Member PRRT&HS #7237, Northern Central Chapter > Member Miniature Railroad Club of York #161 > Dispatcher for the York Connecting Railroad > Superintendent of the Tuckahoe Valley Railroad > Route of the "Golden Arrow" > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 23:22:23 +1100 From: "Mick Molloy" Subject: Fwd: [PRR] Re: PRR Coaling Tower From: 760331thx@netcourrier.com Subject: [PRR] Introduction & BLI T1 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 13:29:48 CET Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi, I'm Xavier Thiriet, I'm 28 and live in France. I've been attracted to the = mighty Pennsy since I first saw pictures of the incredible S1 and T1 on th= e web...That was I think 8 years ago, and I've been lurking on PRR-Talk fo= r I think 6 years. This is really a list I appreciate, with invaluable con= tributions and a wealth of information. I'd like to thank all the contribu= tors for sharing their knowledge, it is too rare on this side of the Atlan= tic not to be mentioned. And I've just joined the PRRTHS. By the way, thanks for the TKM initiative : fantastic=21=21 I'm also interested in french railways (I've always been a train fanatic),= particularly in the eastern region (also coal, steel, smoke and steam), f= rom the 30s to the 50s. I'm modeling in HO scale, with a tendency to be a = rivet counter for the french part of my hobby, but I'm beginning to be a n= it-picker for PRR models too... Now for the BLI T1 : I received mine last Friday, and spent a good part of= the week-end to test it and tune it. First of all, concerning the tender = : to remove the shell, take some business cards, or thin pieces of stock c= ard or plasticard. Gently insert a flat screwdriver between the frame and = the base of the shell, then insert the card, beginning between the trucks,= then going forward, while prying the shell with your thumb to help the ca= rd going on. Do this on both sides. Then grab the front coupling pin assembly (don't pull the cabling=21) in one hand, and grab firmly the uppe= r part f the shell with the other. Pull straight down the =22pin=22 : it i= s hard to get the frame out of the shell, but once the front has disengage= d, the rest will follow. Not a thing to do each week...it is a really tigh= t fit, most certainly to avoid the shell vibrating. Another remark concerning the removable water hatch : first, it is the lef= t hand one. Second, mine had paint on its mounting tabs, and was hard to r= emove...I chop off some paint. I ran my T1 with a Roco =22Digital is cool=22 set, with =22LocoMouse2=22, = sold by E-R Models in the US (under the name PowerMouse). Though this comm= and unit is limited (you can't use decimal values superior to 99, and ther= e are only 4 functions + light), I really enjoyed the Quantum circuit. The= system volume =22as built=22 is darn too loud, the exhaust chuff could ha= ve more depth, but the Doppler effect is cooooooool. Getting a short =22ho= ot=22 is not easy at all, but getting a short whistle is easy. I tested it on a =22nightmare oval=22 track, with 24=22 radius RocoLine (c= ode83) curves, and code 100 straight sections and turnouts (15=B0, that's = less than =234). With both blind wheelsets, I found that the rear one (3rd= driver) has a tendency to stay out of the track, creating short circuits = on frogs. I then installed the flanged wheelset on the 3rd driver, and not= iced that contrary to the blind one, it has some sideplay. The locomotive = tracked OK when turning left, but I have to tune it because the rear drive= rs derail when turning right...I'll try change the 2nd driver for the flanged= one later. As Ken mentioned it, be sure when you change an axle that the screws fixin= g the rods are not screwed loose : they will interfere with the crosshead = assembly and jam the mechanism. Difficult thing to spot when you don't gue= ss it. Apart from that, I try to make the lead and trailing trucks track b= etter : I really don't like the way they are articulated. Even my old Spec= trum K4s tracks better... Otherwise, I'm very pleased with it. It's not that detailed, but good look= ing, especially with FoM cars. It runs good, but will run better at slow s= peed when the load control will be implemented... If you have trouble with the Quantum circuit, Pat Quinn of QSI recently op= ened a Yahoo group : By the way, if you are not aware of it, Roco recently announced it would n= ot produce the 3 american locomotives they intended to propose in HO : the= AC4400, the GP40-2 and, sadly for us, the FP7. -- = Best regards, Xavier Thiriet ------------------------------------------------------------- NetCourrier, votre bureau virtuel sur Internet : Mail, Agenda, Clubs, Tool= bar... Web/Wap : www.netcourrier.com T=E9l=E9phone/Fax : 08 92 69 00 21 (0,34 =80 TTC/min) Minitel: 3615 NETCOURRIER (0,16 =80 TTC/min) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 07:57:06 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] 1948 Broadway From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Monday, January 19, 2004, at 01:25 PM, John Frantz wrote: > Gents, > > Thanks so far for the information. Its always fun to know how to stir > the pot for information. > Just some wayside comments, I pulled the consist out of the book > "Pennsylvania Streamliners" and it is the make-up for September 30th, > 1948 Train #28. I'm strongly considering building the train in HO to > rival my fathers' 1928 Broadway he's working on right now. > > Using the info Jamie passed on below, could I take a Rivarossi 12-1 > and convert it to the Elm Queen using New England parts? John, Don't do it! The number one reason is that Elm Queen was converted from McKelvie, which was a plan 3410 car. The Rivarossi model is most accurate for a plan 2410 (in spite of much that has been written) as it is too short for a 3410. Branchline is coming with a plan 3410 car, which would be a MUCH better starting point, which will also fix many of the OTHER problems with the Riv car. BTW, the Pullman database says of Elm Queen... Rebuilt 27-Aug-48 from plan 3410 McKelvie to plan 4158 Paint: 70-15 Light gray; CED3600D (no date); Pullman Two-tone gray (1/11/56) Trucks: 2410AR; 2410A (no date); 2410AR (9/22/52) Underbody equipment included UC brakes with two 16" cylinders, two 8 cell battery boxes, 4 tread steps Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Introduction & BLI T1 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 13:59:34 +0000 From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] GG1 question Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 14:05:46 +0000 From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] A general question Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 14:20:50 +0000 From: BillyDee53@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:33:41 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] A general question I read about that, years ago in a book titled 'A Treasury of Railroad Folklore'...it supposedly happened back in the 1800s after a labor dispute. Union members involved in the dispute were given letters of reference that featured a broken-necked crane as a water mark. Those not involved in the strike had regular watermarks...I dont think it neccessarily had anything to do with the PRR, though...Bill --part1_19a.1f87724c.2d3e9645_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" I read about that, years ago in a b= ook titled 'A Treasury of Railroad Folklore'...it supposedly happened back i= n the 1800s after a labor dispute.  Union members involved in the dispu= te were given letters of reference that featured a broken-necked crane as a=20= water mark.  Those not involved in the strike had regular watermarks...= I dont think it neccessarily had anything to do with the PRR, though...Bill<= /FONT> --part1_19a.1f87724c.2d3e9645_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Broadway Limited Question.... Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 14:40:15 +0000 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 11:30:44 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] BLI T1 revisited Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Dave, High Speed Coal! Now there's a market the PRR never exploited ;-) Regards, Andrew S. Miller ======================================================= "David R. Campbell" wrote: > I am glad to see this thread come back to life, I recevied my T1 yesterday and had an opportunity to run it on the club layout. Our layout has some rough track, from the days the layout was housed in less than l perfect conditions... another story. I was interested to see if there would be any problems with this locomotive and how it operated on some of our tighter curves. > > This locomotive performed nearly flawlessly, even on curves on under 26". I don't have many passenger cars for testing so the train it was pulling would make some of the readers here ill, 25 weighted loaded hoppers of coal, the real stuff as this in coal mining country. This locomotive does not have problem with curves as far as I am concerned. Backing the train into the oldest portion of the yard (soon to be upgraded) through old Atlas #4 turnouts was a problem where the blind drivers would ground on the switch points, but that's an unrealistic test for this locomtive to say the least. > > My layout at home has crossovers in a yard using Peco small radius turnouts, again no problem for the T1. I am throughly satisfied with this locomotive and look forward to the M1b. > > best regards, > > David Campbell > Norton, VA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 12:01:51 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Weekly Photo Sharing Forum Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry, I "stopped by" on Friday but could not figure out how to post photos! Regards, Andy Miller ======================================================= Jerry Britton wrote: > A few days ago we discussed (on PRR talk) a weekly forum to share > Pennsylvania Railroad photos -- both proto and models -- akin to the > Sunday Nite Foto Fun held in the Atlas N Scale Forum. > > Since this is the first week, I'm kicking it off early to jump start > it. Hopefully it will share the success of its counterpart. > > Please stop by this evening, and later over the weekend, and share a > shot or two, or your comments. > > The address is http://forum.pennsyrr.com:8010/forum/ . Look in the > Pennsylvania Railroad Forum. > > Hope to see you there! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 12:08:45 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Steam Doghouses Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: CalScale (Bowser) also make a brass casting of the three-man doghouse used on the J1, Q2 and a few others. Regards, Andy Miller ======================================================= STEPHEN HOXIE wrote: > Hi Brian--Bowser makes them in their Selley line. > > Steve Hoxie > Pensacola FL > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian J Carlson" > To: "PRR Talk" > Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 9:00 PM > Subject: [PRR] Steam Doghouses > > > I vaguely recall that someone makes after-market doghouses (may be in > resin) > > for Steam Tenders. Can anyone enlighten me on the manufacturer? > > > > Brian J Carlson > > Cheektowaga NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 12:09:48 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Weekly Photo Sharing Forum From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Tuesday, January 20, 2004, at 12:01 PM, Andrew S. Miller wrote: > I "stopped by" on Friday but could not figure out how to post photos! 1. You must already have the photos in electronic form, either GIF or JPEG. 2. You must upload those photo files to a server somewhere. It can be your own server, your ISP's server, or a free image hosting server such as Rail Images (http://www.railimages.com -- down at the moment). 3. In the Forum -- and other forums for that matter -- you "link" to them by putting the URL inside [img][/img] tags. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 14:32:58 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] A general question X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 46 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In a message dated 1/20/04 8:29:23 AM, ndbprr@att.net writes: << I'm not sure this is PRR related and am trying to track down a reference I saw somewhere years ago. I think it was the PRR but when asked for a reference letter the company had two forms of staionary with a watermark of a standing crane or a flying crane. Regardless of what the letter said the flying crane was a warning not to hire the person in receipt of that letter. If the watermark was the standing crane it was a legitimate reference letter. Does anybody recall this and have a source? Thank you >> ***************************** I was in the Pennsy labor relations department from 1960 to 1966. I never heard this before (which doesn't mean it could not have existed), but I simply can't imagine any one on the Pennsy feeling the need to be that subtle. The Pennsy's "rule," which I never understood, was never to reemploy someone who had been hired and then left under any circumstances. But, if we didn't recommend that another employer hire a former employee, we probably would have said exactly that. Although, I think we simply would have declined to get involved or write any letter. Remember, in those days, there was little of today's concern for giving anyone grounds for a suit. If you do confirm the crane story, no matter what company is involved, please post what you find. Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RBurg74133@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 14:59:28 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] 1948 Broadway Diners Interesting that those diners are mentioned. A copy of a Car Builders Cyclopedia that I have indicates that these diners in the series 4512-4517 ex 4513 (no car) were all aluminum. Does any one know anything further about these? Ray Burghart One and one half miles from milepost 38 on the NY&LB -------------------------------1074628767 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
 
Interesting that those diners are mentio= ned. A copy of a Car Builders Cyclopedia that I have indicates that these di= ners in the series 4512-4517 ex 4513 (no car) were all aluminum. Does any on= e know anything further about these?
 
Ray Burghart
One and one half miles from milepost 38=20= on the NY&LB
-------------------------------1074628767-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 12:14:39 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] A general question From: "James Gitts" Subject: Fw: [PRR] Re: PRR Coaling Tower Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:36:35 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Gitts" To: "Mick Molloy" Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 6:34 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR Coaling Tower > Speaking of Gary, > He is a good friend and I have the opportunity to see a lot of his work > . He's done for me, all the tedious work of mine that I would never attempt. > I am very grateful and proud to display his work on my layout. ( when > completed ). He helps with that too. > I've been in the hobby over 20 years, subscribe to all the model railroad > magazines and have been around the country to see many layouts and quality > model builders work. > All the famous published modelers , NMRA conventions , Larger train shows, > you name it. > Without being biased , I would put Gary right up with the best of them . > If you get the opportunity check out Gary's web pages , it's well worth the > time.... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mick Molloy" > To: "PRR Talk Discussion Group" > Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 7:22 AM > Subject: Fwd: [PRR] Re: PRR Coaling Tower > > > > > > And just cause for us to break out the drool mops. > > > > An excellent job Gary > > > > Mick in Aus > > *********** BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** > > > > On 19/01/2004 at 5:02 PM mittner@webtv.net wrote: > > > > >Guys, > > > > > > Although I didn't email back each individual who provided tips on > > >the Coaling Tower paint job, I do appreciate the notes. Even the few > > >that recommended I "dip" the Tower. Thanks. > > > Well, the Tower is completed! Yes, surprisingly so, I finished it > > >late Sunday night. I figured I would have this is my hands for several > > >weeks at least for sure. I was anxious to get started and was even more > > >anxious to complete it after the first night of airbrushing. Thank > > >goodness for quick drying Polyscale! > > > I just completed a webpage showing a dozen or so views. If you care > > >to view, just visit: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/Tower.html > > >Once again, Thanks for the notes......Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > > >Work! > > > > > >PRR K4s Loco Pics: > > >http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ > > > > > >PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: > > > > > >http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > > > > > >and...... > > > > > >PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: > > > > > >http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > *********** END FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Hough " Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 11:07:09 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI T1 Tender From: "Fred in Vt." Subject: Re: [PRR] The next GG1: Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:49:39 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I want to be there when Jerry tells the family that Harrisburg Terminal is going in the back yard!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne S. Betty" To: "PRR-Talk" ; "PRRCatenaryElectrics" Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 9:26 PM Subject: [PRR] The next GG1: > The next big wave of GG1's is coming. > LGB has announced two. > 4935 in Brunswick Green (their description) > 4877 in Tuscan Red > > Get that extra job now - > > Cos > Wayne S. Betty > Cos Communications, Inc. > Small business IT services. > > Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road > NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 > NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 > http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm > at the west end of the PRR electrified zone > > > > Tracking #: C246516DDB4F574DBC35D131AEC0D29CFAA65764 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Hough " Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 21:38:53 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Sleepind car in RRMM Altoona From: DWSNRHS@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 23:55:44 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Sleepind car in RRMM Altoona In a message dated 01/20/2004 10:54:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, k4sb@niia.net writes: Years ago my wife and I stopped at the museum in Altoona. In the yard was an old PRR/Amtrak sleeper. As a kid my mom and I went to Fla in the car. Is its name Palm Grove? When my wife and I walked through it I went to room D. It was the same car. Whats the history of it? Ken Greetings to list: If this is the car with stainless steel fluted siding, it is the BIRCH RIVER, which, I think, operated as a PRR car on the Southern Railway. There are two cars from the FOM, however, with painted tuscan car bodies: The HARBOR SPRINGS, a mid-train lounge/sleeper and the JACKS NARROWS, an oval end OBS with bedrooms. D W Seidel, Altoona -------------------------------1074660944 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 01/20/2004 10:54:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, k4sb@n= iia.net writes:
Years ago my wife and I stopped at the museum=20= in Altoona.
In the yard was an old PRR/Amtrak sleeper.
As a kid my mo= m and I went to Fla in the car. Is its name Palm Grove?
When my wife and=20= I walked through it I went to room D. It was the
same car. Whats the his= tory of it?
Ken
Greetings to list:  If this is the car with=20= stainless steel fluted siding, it is the BIRCH RIVER, which, I think, operat= ed as a PRR car on the Southern Railway. There are two cars from the FO= M, however, with painted tuscan car bodies:  The HARBOR SPRINGS, a mid-= train lounge/sleeper and the JACKS NARROWS, an oval end OBS with bedrooms.&n= bsp;
D W Seidel, Altoona
-------------------------------1074660944-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 01:31:20 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Cincinnati Limited and other 10-6 Rapids cars In a message dated 1/19/04 3:30:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, RBurg74133 writes: > Rick: > Vol. 4 of the Pullman Standard Library has the info on the car names see > pages 160 and 162. Car numbers 8317 thru 8332 plus 8343 and 8344 are Plan > 4140 > > Ray Burghart SPF. > Thanks Ray -- idiotically, I found that (and more info in Blardone and Tilp) shortly after I sent the posting on the Plan 4140 cars. Wouldn't it be interesting to know how 8343 and 8644 (Juniata Rapids and Mackinaw Rapids) got added? Obviously, somebody's calculations changed in 1946 while the orders were being prepared. I went ahead and added this info to my private Access database of passenger car names and accounting numbers. I use this database as a quick reference, so I don't have to be online or pull down the reference books every time. Good thing Jerry has an online database all you broadbanders can reach; we're still dialup only here. I find the name changes these cars went through to be interesting, but pretty confusing (of course, the business cars are the worst of these). PS -- If I read the references correctly, the PRR, L&N, N&W, and RF&P 10-6's from Plan 4140 were all built by Pullman at one time, despite different order numbers for the four customers. I'm afraid to say "all one lot"; not sure that's the right terminology here. I'm working on the galleys of The Pennsylvania Railroad in Cincinnati right now. As now planned, this will appear as a PRRT&HS book, containing my article on the railroad in Cincinnati Ohio, plus a 56 page article by Chuck Blardone with more info on the New York-Cincinnati train The Cincinnati Limited and the cars it carried over the years. I notice Chuck deals in detail with the PRR and L&N sleepers assigned to the Cincinnati Limited, and his photos illustrate what we've been talking about. I appreciate your looking out for me -- thank God our listmates are so helpful. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 01:31:16 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] End of an electrifying thread? In a message dated 1/19/04 10:15:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:30:33 -0500 > From: dave pierson > Subject: Re: Re: Dome zapping > > OK. > (puts on hat that says 'electrical engineer') > > The current will flow down the OUTSIDE of the car. [1] > Inside is the safest place. > > Museum of Science in Boston has a BIG van de Graaf. > Millions (literally) of Volts. 10 ft sparks. > > Operator sits in a 'bird cage' with bars about 6" apart. > > WITH the sparks hitting the outside. 10 foot sparks. > > At one point they would walk over and touch the INSIDE > while sparks hit the OUTSIDE. (dunno if they still do...) > > Risks from UV flash exist, however most glazing blocks > some of the UV, tho not all. > > [1] > The hidden assumption is that the shell of the car > is a solid continuous (electrically) structure. Mostly it > is. Not recommended to make the experiment unless driven to > it... > > If involved in derailment under wire DO NOT step out unless advised. > (This is in the ETT rules for crews, etc... ) If the wheels are > off the tracks, the car shell may be 11kvac off 'ground'. > > Even with the wheels off, in a metal bodied car, the > inside will be 'equipotential'. (cf 'Faraday cage') > > best > dwp Dave and all, Whatever the current distribution, we've seen postings on many other things that could go wrong (I didn't dare refer to them as "potential" problems (groan)). Now let me put on my physicist hat (there's one I haven't worn in a while): 1. It's good science that current will tend to run on the "outside" of a metallic object. 2. But passenger cars are made of steel, and that steel has more resistance than copper -- thus, it's not prudent to assume that a large current will stay all on the surface; resistance is likely to push some current inward on the metal surface. 3. Additionally, even if current in the vista dome frame wasn't of concern, the inside of the metal will be about the same potential volts above ground as the outside -- touching it could put a person in an 11000 volt pathway. 4. I believe you will find that a Van de Graaf generator is a suitable toy for science museums because the mechanism kicks just a few electrons up by millions of volts. The volts are sufficient to launch a nice air gap spark -- but the DC amps generate barely enough static charge to make a female's hair bush out comically. A VdG isn't much good for continuous current. That's why it's so different from grabbing a wire with a powerhouse on the other end. I hope all have been entertained by this thread -- I especially liked the vaporizing roller bearings (spoken like a true accountant). I think we should now return to subjects more relevant to modeling or remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 01:31:20 EST Subject: [PRR] Cincinnati Limited and other 10-6 Rapids cars In a message dated 1/19/04 3:30:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, RBurg74133 writes: > Rick: > Vol. 4 of the Pullman Standard Library has the info on the car names see > pages 160 and 162. Car numbers 8317 thru 8332 plus 8343 and 8344 are Plan > 4140 > > Ray Burghart SPF. > Thanks Ray -- idiotically, I found that (and more info in Blardone and Tilp) shortly after I sent the posting on the Plan 4140 cars. Wouldn't it be interesting to know how 8343 and 8644 (Juniata Rapids and Mackinaw Rapids) got added? Obviously, somebody's calculations changed in 1946 while the orders were being prepared. I went ahead and added this info to my private Access database of passenger car names and accounting numbers. I use this database as a quick reference, so I don't have to be online or pull down the reference books every time. Good thing Jerry has an online database all you broadbanders can reach; we're still dialup only here. I find the name changes these cars went through to be interesting, but pretty confusing (of course, the business cars are the worst of these). PS -- If I read the references correctly, the PRR, L&N, N&W, and RF&P 10-6's from Plan 4140 were all built by Pullman at one time, despite different order numbers for the four customers. I'm afraid to say "all one lot"; not sure that's the right terminology here. I'm working on the galleys of The Pennsylvania Railroad in Cincinnati right now. As now planned, this will appear as a PRRT&HS book, containing my article on the railroad in Cincinnati Ohio, plus a 56 page article by Chuck Blardone with more info on the New York-Cincinnati train The Cincinnati Limited and the cars it carried over the years. I notice Chuck deals in detail with the PRR and L&N sleepers assigned to the Cincinnati Limited, and his photos illustrate what we've been talking about. I appreciate your looking out for me -- thank God our listmates are so helpful. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_1ef.17c4445d.2d3f76b8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 1/19/04 3:30:56=20= PM Eastern Standard Time, RBurg74133 writes:


Rick:
Vol. 4 of the Pullman Standard Library has the info on the car names see pa= ges 160 and 162.  Car numbers 8317 thru 8332 plus  8343 and 8344 a= re Plan 4140

Ray Burghart SPF.


Thanks Ray -- idiotically, I found that (and more info in Blardone and Tilp)= shortly after I sent the posting on the Plan 4140 cars.  Wouldn't it b= e interesting to know how 8343 and 8644 (Juniata Rapids and Mackinaw Rapids)= got added?  Obviously, somebody's calculations changed in 1946 while t= he orders were being prepared.

I went ahead and added this info to my private Access database of passenger=20= car names and accounting numbers.  I use this database as a quick refer= ence, so I don't have to be online or pull down the reference books every ti= me.  Good thing Jerry has an online database all you broadbanders can r= each; we're still dialup only here.  I find the name changes these cars= went through to be interesting, but pretty confusing (of course, the busine= ss cars are the worst of these).

PS -- If I read the references correctly, the PRR, L&N, N&W, and RF&= amp;P 10-6's from Plan 4140 were all built by Pullman at one time, despite d= ifferent order numbers for the four customers.  I'm afraid to say "all=20= one lot"; not sure that's the right terminology here.

I'm working on the galleys of The Pennsylvania Railroad in Cincinnati= right now.  As now planned, this will appear as a PRRT&HS book, co= ntaining my article on the railroad in Cincinnati Ohio, plus a 56 page artic= le by Chuck Blardone with more info on the New York-Cincinnati train The=20= Cincinnati Limited and the cars it carried over the years.  I notic= e Chuck deals in detail with the PRR and L&N sleepers assigned to the Cincinnati Limited, and his photos illustrate what we've been talking a= bout.

I appreciate your looking out for me -- thank God our listmates are so helpf= ul.


Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_1ef.17c4445d.2d3f76b8_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 01:31:16 EST Subject: [PRR] End of an electrifying thread? In a message dated 1/19/04 10:15:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:30:33 -0500 > From: dave pierson > Subject: Re: Re: Dome zapping > > OK. > (puts on hat that says 'electrical engineer') > > The current will flow down the OUTSIDE of the car. [1] > Inside is the safest place. > > Museum of Science in Boston has a BIG van de Graaf. > Millions (literally) of Volts. 10 ft sparks. > > Operator sits in a 'bird cage' with bars about 6" apart. > > WITH the sparks hitting the outside. 10 foot sparks. > > At one point they would walk over and touch the INSIDE > while sparks hit the OUTSIDE. (dunno if they still do...) > > Risks from UV flash exist, however most glazing blocks > some of the UV, tho not all. > > [1] > The hidden assumption is that the shell of the car > is a solid continuous (electrically) structure. Mostly it > is. Not recommended to make the experiment unless driven to > it... > > If involved in derailment under wire DO NOT step out unless advised. > (This is in the ETT rules for crews, etc... ) If the wheels are > off the tracks, the car shell may be 11kvac off 'ground'. > > Even with the wheels off, in a metal bodied car, the > inside will be 'equipotential'. (cf 'Faraday cage') > > best > dwp Dave and all, Whatever the current distribution, we've seen postings on many other things that could go wrong (I didn't dare refer to them as "potential" problems (groan)). Now let me put on my physicist hat (there's one I haven't worn in a while): 1. It's good science that current will tend to run on the "outside" of a metallic object. 2. But passenger cars are made of steel, and that steel has more resistance than copper -- thus, it's not prudent to assume that a large current will stay all on the surface; resistance is likely to push some current inward on the metal surface. 3. Additionally, even if current in the vista dome frame wasn't of concern, the inside of the metal will be about the same potential volts above ground as the outside -- touching it could put a person in an 11000 volt pathway. 4. I believe you will find that a Van de Graaf generator is a suitable toy for science museums because the mechanism kicks just a few electrons up by millions of volts. The volts are sufficient to launch a nice air gap spark -- but the DC amps generate barely enough static charge to make a female's hair bush out comically. A VdG isn't much good for continuous current. That's why it's so different from grabbing a wire with a powerhouse on the other end. I hope all have been entertained by this thread -- I especially liked the vaporizing roller bearings (spoken like a true accountant). I think we should now return to subjects more relevant to modeling or remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_36.4fa9507a.2d3f76b4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 1/19/04 10:15:55= PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes:


Message: 4
   Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:30:33 -0500
   From: dave pierson <davep@quik.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Dome zapping

OK.
(puts on hat that says 'electrical engineer')

The current will flow down the OUTSIDE of the car. [1]
Inside is the safest place.

Museum of Science in Boston has a BIG van de Graaf.
Millions (literally) of Volts.  10 ft sparks.

Operator sits in a 'bird cage' with bars about 6" apart.

WITH the sparks hitting the outside.  10 foot sparks.

At one point they would walk over and touch the INSIDE
while sparks hit the OUTSIDE.  (dunno if they still do...)

Risks from UV flash exist, however most glazing blocks
some of the UV, tho not all.

[1]
The hidden assumption is that the shell of the car
is a solid continuous (electrically) structure.  Mostly it
is.  Not recommended to make the experiment unless driven to
it...

If involved in derailment under wire DO NOT step out unless advised.
(This is in the ETT rules for crews, etc...  )  If the wheels are<= BR> off the tracks, the car shell may be 11kvac off 'ground'.

Even with the wheels off, in a metal bodied car, the
inside will be 'equipotential'.  (cf 'Faraday cage')

best
dwp


Dave and all,

Whatever the current distribution, we've seen postings on many other things=20= that could go wrong (I didn't dare refer to them as "potential" problems (gr= oan)).

Now let me put on my physicist hat (there's one I haven't worn in a while):<= BR>
1. It's good science that current will tend to run on the "outside" of a met= allic object.
2. But passenger cars are made of steel, and that steel has more resistance=20= than copper -- thus, it's not prudent to assume that a large current will st= ay all on the surface; resistance is likely to push some current inward on t= he metal surface.
3.  Additionally, even if current in the vista dome frame wasn't of con= cern, the inside of the metal will be about the same potential volts above g= round as the outside -- touching it could put a person in an 11000 volt path= way.
4.  I believe you will find that a Van de Graaf generator is a suitable= toy for science museums because the mechanism kicks just a few electrons up= by millions of volts.  The volts are sufficient to launch a nice air g= ap spark -- but the DC amps generate barely enough static charge to make a f= emale's hair bush out comically.  A VdG isn't much good for continuous=20= current.  That's why it's so different from grabbing a wire with a powe= rhouse on the other end.

I hope all have been entertained by this thread -- I especially liked the va= porizing roller bearings (spoken like a true accountant).  I think we s= hould now return to subjects more relevant to modeling or remembering the Pe= nnsylvania Railroad.

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_36.4fa9507a.2d3f76b4_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "David Honner" Subject: [PRR] Panhandle Division Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 17:29:06 +1100 Hi, I'm after some information on the prototype PRR Panhandle division. I'd like to have a copy of the system maps that show the lines, grades and turns from about Burgettstown to the junction with the Cadiz branch, although information further east and west would also be appreciated. I have the Keystone journal articles showing this information for the branches in this area (Wheeling, River, Cadiz, etc.) (Summer 94) but frustratingly the same articles on the mainline don't show this (Winter 90). If you do not have this do you know where I might obtain it? I am hoping to model something in this region and would like a little more information. Many thanks, David Honner ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C3E044.15B3AAC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi,
 
  I'm after=20 some information on the prototype PRR Panhandle division. I'd like to = have a=20 copy of the system maps that show the lines, grades and turns from about = Burgettstown to the junction with the Cadiz branch, although information = further=20 east and west would also be appreciated.
 
  I have the=20 Keystone journal articles showing this information for the branches in = this area=20 (Wheeling, River, Cadiz, etc.) (Summer 94) but frustratingly the same = articles=20 on the mainline don't show this (Winter 90).
 
  If you do=20 not have this do you know where I might obtain it? I am hoping to model=20 something in this region and would like a little more information. Many=20 thanks,
 
David = Honner
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C3E044.15B3AAC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: 760331thx@netcourrier.com Subject: [PRR] Roco FP7 Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:29:51 CET Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Ben Hom asked : >>>Was the FP7 going to feature new tooling for the body? I'm certainly n= ot = shedding any tears if it was to be yet another reissue of the old Atlas FP= 7, = which was great when it was first introduced in the mid-1970s, but still = needs work to make it a decent Pennsy model.<<< Don't know. All I can say is what was written on the Roco News 2003 flyer = : http://www.lokshop.de/images/Kataloge/ROC/2003.News/12.jpg Translation : = -New construction -High-end model with specifics details for each roadname (but no passenger= pilot) -Photo-etched side grilles with visible structure behind -Separately applied windshield wipers -Complete cab interior -8-wheel drive & current pick-up -Knuckle couplers -Factory equipped with DCC decoder with load control -Some versions with DCC Sound decoder (ESU LokSound2) Sounded like a nearly brand new model... PRR offering was the rare Tuscan red/5 stripe units. The picture at the center of the page could let hope that a new nose profi= le would be designed... Well, Roco has just invested a bunch of money in a brand new factory in Au= stria, and now has to deal with a big competitor which is the Maerklin gro= up, and they will perhaps buy some of the molds of the nearly defunct Lima= /Rivarossi group. -- = Xavier Thiriet -- = Salutations =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F Xavier Thiriet ------------------------------------------------------------- NetCourrier, votre bureau virtuel sur Internet : Mail, Agenda, Clubs, Tool= bar... Web/Wap : www.netcourrier.com T=E9l=E9phone/Fax : 08 92 69 00 21 (0,34 =80 TTC/min) Minitel: 3615 NETCOURRIER (0,16 =80 TTC/min) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] January 21, 1965 Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 07:55:21 -0500 Train 45, a westbound mail train, came through Warsaw, Indiana lead by = PRR No. 9845, an FP-7. This was rare, nearly all passenger and mail = trains on the Fort Wayne line were pulled by E-units by 1965. This tidbit of information was brought to you by the Station Record of = Train Movement sheets from Warsaw Tower. Ted M. Andrews Carmel, Indiana ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C3DFF3.EB6F6920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Train 45, a westbound mail train, came through Warsaw, Indiana lead = by PRR=20 No. 9845, an FP-7. This was rare, nearly all passenger and mail trains = on the=20 Fort Wayne line were pulled by E-units by 1965.
 
This tidbit of information was brought to you by the Station Record = of=20 Train Movement sheets from Warsaw Tower.
 
 
Ted M. Andrews
Carmel, Indiana
 
------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C3DFF3.EB6F6920-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 04:47:58 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Panhandle Division Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 09:16:08 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] BLI T1 shut down (was: BLI T1 Tender) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Did they shut down on DCC or on DC? I have run mine both ways and have experienced frequent shut downs on DC. The engine suddenly just stops while full voltage is still applied. It continues to makes steam sounds, but the headlight goes out. Bringing the voltage to zero and starting up again recovers, but the passengers complain if this happens more than two or three times on a trip ;-) Has anyone contacted BLI about this? Regards, Andrew S. Miller ======================================================= Ken Hough wrote: > Be careful of the axle springs. Apply a dab of grease in their hole > so you do not lose them. > Ken H > > On 19 Jan 04, at 6:33, zootowerprr@webtv.net wrote: > > Thanks Bruce, > > We also have had decoder trouble with all three T1s that > are > on the layout. All three seem to just shut down. Thats why we were > trying to get the tenders bodies off. Used everything except a blow > torch to remove the tender body.We had to reprogram every funtion to > get them runing again. That was fun.:-( > Now we have the task of changing out the blind drivers > for > the flanged ones. Thanks again. > > Dave Hopson > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > Ken Hough Photographic Repair > Specializing in Deardorff repair and refinishing > Shutter repair and Lens recementing > Custom machine work > www.deardorffcameras.0catch.com > 219-462-0281 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 09:31:33 -0500 From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Panhandle Division Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In a message dated 1/21/2004 7:47:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, wb3iqe@rocketmail.com writes: > (and others, but the Panhandle didn't go to those > states). Ahh, yes it did. The Panhandle ran from PIttsburgh to St. Louis. Traversing Western Pennsylvania, West Virgina panhandle from whence the name came, Ohio and points west. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "L. Heintz" Subject: [PRR] PRR Coaling Towers Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:34:44 -0500 In Sept. I had the opportunity to photo and measure the old coaling = tower at Ebenezr Yard near Buffalo. I remember seeing a smaller one at = Emporium Jct about 20 years ago, is that one still standing ?? How can = you tell what tonnage rating they are ?? Are anymore still standing = between Enola, Pittsburgh and Buffalo ?? lah ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C3E00A.2F2D5260 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
In Sept. I had the opportunity to photo = and measure=20 the old coaling tower at Ebenezr Yard near Buffalo. I remember seeing a = smaller=20 one at Emporium Jct about 20 years ago, is that one still standing=20 ??   How can you tell what tonnage rating they are ??  = Are=20 anymore still standing between Enola, Pittsburgh and Buffalo=20 ??
lah
------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C3E00A.2F2D5260-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:37:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Coaling Towers From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Wednesday, January 21, 2004, at 10:34 AM, L. Heintz wrote: > In Sept. I had the opportunity to photo and measure the old coaling=20 > tower at Ebenezr Yard near Buffalo. I remember seeing a smaller one at=20= > Emporium Jct about 20 years ago, is that one still standing ??=A0=A0 = How=20 > can you tell what tonnage rating they are ??=A0 Are anymore still=20 > standing=A0between Enola, Pittsburgh=A0and Buffalo ?? > There's still a tower at Renovo. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:59:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Coaling Towers MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Seen here: http://trfn.clpgh.org/avlt/HistoryofAVRR.html is the one that still stands at Phillipston Yd. near the Allegheny River. It is now an attraction on the bike/walk trail. At least it still stands.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Sheets" Subject: [PRR] Section shanty at Altoona Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:13:09 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Riding eastbound out of Altoona, there is a section shanty on the south side of the tracks, east of where the yard tracks end. It was there on Dec 24th as I rode AMTRAK 40 to Trenton. It appears to have a large front door, painted cream with red trim, in some disrepair. Does anyone ave a picture of this building they could share. TIA, send off offlist John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Coaling Towers Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 13:24:36 -0500 Emporium coaling tower long gone. Coaling tower in Renovo still there = (at least as of October '03). Only ones I'm aware of. A few = foundations and footers here and there, however. Bill Bigler - 4915 Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message -----=20 From: L. Heintz=20 To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 10:34 AM Subject: [PRR] PRR Coaling Towers In Sept. I had the opportunity to photo and measure the old coaling = tower at Ebenezr Yard near Buffalo. I remember seeing a smaller one at = Emporium Jct about 20 years ago, is that one still standing ?? How can = you tell what tonnage rating they are ?? Are anymore still standing = between Enola, Pittsburgh and Buffalo ?? lah ------=_NextPart_000_0096_01C3E021.EA120D20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Emporium coaling tower long gone.  Coaling = tower in=20 Renovo still there (at least as of October '03).  Only ones I'm = aware=20 of.  A few foundations and footers here and there, = however.
 
Bill Bigler - 4915
Big Flats NY
Modeling = PRR Renovo=20 &
     Williamsport WWII
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 L.=20 Heintz
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, = 2004 10:34=20 AM
Subject: [PRR] PRR Coaling = Towers

In Sept. I had the opportunity to = photo and=20 measure the old coaling tower at Ebenezr Yard near Buffalo. I remember = seeing=20 a smaller one at Emporium Jct about 20 years ago, is that one still = standing=20 ??   How can you tell what tonnage rating they are ??  = Are=20 anymore still standing between Enola, Pittsburgh and Buffalo = ??
lah
------=_NextPart_000_0096_01C3E021.EA120D20-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: [PRR] Turntable question Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:47:10 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-MDRemoteIP: 192.0.1.150 X-Return-Path: geshick@velocity.net X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: prr-talk@dsop.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I was looking at turntable plans (from 1915) on Rob's site: http://prr.railfan.net/standards/standards.cgi?plan=61930-A and I was wondering about that 11'2" section at the lower right of the overhead view. It appears to be the opening that you see at the far left of the following photo of the Oil City turntable: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/images/oilctt.jpg Does anyone know what that opening was for? Also, those drawings show a drop of 2'10" from the rail the bridge rides on down to the sloping floor of the pit. Photos of the Oil City & Altoona turntables show that the floor slopes right up to the rail. Anyone know when this design was changed, or have newer drawings showing this? Thanks. ----------- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] Roco FP7 Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 18:32:00 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Xavier Thiriet wrote: Sounded like a nearly brand new model... That's definitely a disappointment, though the pictured models were the old Roco tooling. I could have used FP7s for both PRR and Rock Island. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 18:45:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI T1 shut down (was: BLI T1 Tender) MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Andy, The T1s we were running shut down in DCC mode. We got them running again but it took a while. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ron Widman" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Coaling Towers Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 19:19:31 -0500 Coaling Towers,=20 In Ohio, the old PRR concrete coaling tower still stands tall just north = of Marion, Ohio, just south of Ohio Route #23. The old structure still = stradles two of the old PRR Sandusky Barnch line (now N&S) tracks that = ran from Columbus to Sandusky. The PRR J-1 steam engines stomped the = line for a number of years pulling loads of coal.=20 If my memory is correct, this coaling tower north of Marion, Ohio is = very similar (or the same) as the concrete tower that the PRR had in = Renovo, PA. Check the railroad books for sale, there is a book out on specifically = "Railroad Coaling Towers" and all of the important information. I picked = one up a while back and the book is most informative and interesting.=20 Ron Widman,=20 Columbus, Ohio =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: L. Heintz=20 To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 10:34 AM Subject: [PRR] PRR Coaling Towers In Sept. I had the opportunity to photo and measure the old coaling = tower at Ebenezr Yard near Buffalo. I remember seeing a smaller one at = Emporium Jct about 20 years ago, is that one still standing ?? How can = you tell what tonnage rating they are ?? Are anymore still standing = between Enola, Pittsburgh and Buffalo ?? lah ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C3E053.7F35DE50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Coaling Towers,
 
In Ohio, the old PRR concrete coaling tower still stands tall just = north of=20 Marion, Ohio, just south of Ohio Route #23. The old structure still = stradles two=20 of the old PRR Sandusky Barnch line (now N&S) tracks that ran from = Columbus=20 to Sandusky. The PRR J-1 steam engines stomped the line for a number of = years=20 pulling loads of coal.
If my memory is correct, this coaling tower north of Marion, Ohio = is very=20 similar (or the same) as the concrete tower that the PRR had in Renovo,=20 PA.
 
Check the railroad books for sale, there is a book out on = specifically=20 "Railroad Coaling Towers" and all of the important information. I picked = one up=20 a while back and the book is most informative and interesting.
Ron Widman,
Columbus, Ohio
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 L.=20 Heintz
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, = 2004 10:34=20 AM
Subject: [PRR] PRR Coaling = Towers

In Sept. I had the opportunity to = photo and=20 measure the old coaling tower at Ebenezr Yard near Buffalo. I remember = seeing=20 a smaller one at Emporium Jct about 20 years ago, is that one still = standing=20 ??   How can you tell what tonnage rating they are ??  = Are=20 anymore still standing between Enola, Pittsburgh and Buffalo = ??
lah
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C3E053.7F35DE50-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "L. Heintz" Subject: [PRR] Coaling towers Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 20:35:48 -0500 The one on the trail at Phillipston appears to be a better size for = modeling. And,it is accessible. Has any detailed info on PRR coaling = towers ever been put into print anywhere ?? LAH ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C3E05E.273D9200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
The one on the trail at Phillipston = appears to be a=20 better size for modeling. And,it is accessible. Has any detailed = info on=20 PRR coaling towers ever been put into print anywhere = ??
 
LAH
------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C3E05E.273D9200-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 21:03:41 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Turntable question In a message dated 1/21/2004 2:58:16 PM Mountain Standard Time, geshick@velocity.net writes: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/images/oilctt.jpg This was to allow access to the motor/gearbox/wheel assembly in each end of the table. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1074737021 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 1/21/2004 2:58:16 PM Mountain Standard Time, geshick= @velocity.net writes:
http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/images/oi= lctt.jpg
This was to allow access to the motor/gearbox/wheel assembly in each en= d of the table.
 

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1074737021-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Hough " Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 20:17:31 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Sleeping car in RRMM Altoona From: "Ron Widman" Subject: Re: [PRR] Coaling towers Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 21:46:40 -0500 Dear L.=20 I picked up a while back a book titled: "Steam Locomotive Coaling = Stations and Diesel Locomotive Fueling Facilities" by Thomas W. Dixon, = Jr.=20 Published in 2002 by TLC Publishing, Inc. Lynchburg, VA.=20 There are a few PRR coaling towers in the book which is devoted to all = RR steam coal docks in general.=20 Ron, Columbus, Ohio. PRRT&HS Member. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ----- Original Message -----=20 From: L. Heintz=20 To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 8:35 PM Subject: [PRR] Coaling towers The one on the trail at Phillipston appears to be a better size for = modeling. And,it is accessible. Has any detailed info on PRR coaling = towers ever been put into print anywhere ?? LAH ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C3E068.0D8BEB40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear L.
 
I picked up a while back a book titled: "Steam Locomotive = Coaling=20 Stations and Diesel Locomotive Fueling Facilities" by Thomas W. Dixon, = Jr.=20
Published in 2002 by TLC Publishing, Inc. Lynchburg, VA.
There are a few PRR coaling towers in the book which is devoted to = all RR=20 steam coal docks in general.
 
Ron, Columbus, Ohio. PRRT&HS Member.
 
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 L.=20 Heintz
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, = 2004 8:35=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] Coaling = towers

The one on the trail at Phillipston = appears to be=20 a better size for modeling. And,it is accessible. Has = any detailed info=20 on PRR coaling towers ever been put into print anywhere = ??
 
LAH
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C3E068.0D8BEB40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Turntable question Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 21:47:07 -0500 That makes sense. Thanks. --- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, Chautauqua branches web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RDG2124@aol.com=20 To: geshick@velocity.net ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 9:03 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Turntable question In a message dated 1/21/2004 2:58:16 PM Mountain Standard Time, = geshick@velocity.net writes: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/images/oilctt.jpg This was to allow access to the motor/gearbox/wheel assembly in each = end of the table. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C3E068.1DF01600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
That makes sense. Thanks.
---
Jerry Shickler
Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, Chautauqua = branches web page at:
http://www.velo= city.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 RDG2124@aol.com=20
To: geshick@velocity.net ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, = 2004 9:03=20 PM
Subject: Re: [PRR] Turntable=20 question

In a message dated 1/21/2004 2:58:16 PM Mountain Standard Time, = geshick@velocity.net = writes:
http://ww= w.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/images/oilctt.jpg
This was to allow access to the motor/gearbox/wheel assembly in = each end=20 of the table.
 

Evan = Leisey
RCT&HS=20 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) = 2036
CNJ
------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C3E068.1DF01600-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Coaling Towers Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 22:19:53 -0500 Here are pics of the coal towers at Marion: http://www.velocity.net./~geshick/temp/marion.jpg at Renovo: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/images/renovo1.jpg and at Wheatland (no longer there): http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/images/wtld_1.jpg --- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, Chautauqua branches web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ron Widman=20 To: L. Heintz ; prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 7:19 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Coaling Towers Coaling Towers,=20 In Ohio, the old PRR concrete coaling tower still stands tall just = north of Marion, Ohio, just south of Ohio Route #23. The old structure = still stradles two of the old PRR Sandusky Barnch line (now N&S) tracks = that ran from Columbus to Sandusky. The PRR J-1 steam engines stomped = the line for a number of years pulling loads of coal.=20 If my memory is correct, this coaling tower north of Marion, Ohio is = very similar (or the same) as the concrete tower that the PRR had in = Renovo, PA. Check the railroad books for sale, there is a book out on specifically = "Railroad Coaling Towers" and all of the important information. I picked = one up a while back and the book is most informative and interesting.=20 Ron Widman,=20 Columbus, Ohio = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ----- Original Message -----=20 From: L. Heintz=20 To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 10:34 AM Subject: [PRR] PRR Coaling Towers In Sept. I had the opportunity to photo and measure the old coaling = tower at Ebenezr Yard near Buffalo. I remember seeing a smaller one at = Emporium Jct about 20 years ago, is that one still standing ?? How can = you tell what tonnage rating they are ?? Are anymore still standing = between Enola, Pittsburgh and Buffalo ?? lah ------=_NextPart_000_0AC8_01C3E06C.B1B31820 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Here are pics of the coal towers at=20 Marion:
http://www.vel= ocity.net./~geshick/temp/marion.jpg
at Renovo:
http://w= ww.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/images/renovo1.jpg
and at Wheatland (no longer = there):
http://ww= w.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/images/wtld_1.jpg
 
---
Jerry Shickler
Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, Chautauqua = branches web page at:
http://www.velo= city.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ron=20 Widman
To: L. Heintz ; prr-talk@dsop.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, = 2004 7:19=20 PM
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Coaling=20 Towers

Coaling Towers,
 
In Ohio, the old PRR concrete coaling tower still stands tall = just north=20 of Marion, Ohio, just south of Ohio Route #23. The old structure still = stradles two of the old PRR Sandusky Barnch line (now N&S) tracks = that ran=20 from Columbus to Sandusky. The PRR J-1 steam engines stomped the line = for a=20 number of years pulling loads of coal.
If my memory is correct, this coaling tower north of Marion, Ohio = is very=20 similar (or the same) as the concrete tower that the PRR had in = Renovo,=20 PA.
 
Check the railroad books for sale, there is a book out on = specifically=20 "Railroad Coaling Towers" and all of the important information. I = picked one=20 up a while back and the book is most informative and interesting. =
Ron Widman,
Columbus, Ohio
=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 L. Heintz
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, = 2004 10:34=20 AM
Subject: [PRR] PRR Coaling = Towers

In Sept. I had the opportunity to = photo and=20 measure the old coaling tower at Ebenezr Yard near Buffalo. I = remember=20 seeing a smaller one at Emporium Jct about 20 years ago, is that one = still=20 standing ??   How can you tell what tonnage rating they = are=20 ??  Are anymore still standing between Enola, = Pittsburgh and=20 Buffalo ??
lah
------=_NextPart_000_0AC8_01C3E06C.B1B31820-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] Turntable question Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:29:56 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p5 (Debian) at paonline.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry, That 11' 2" dimension you see on the turntable plan is the dimension for the "ties" that were laid around the top edge of the pit wall in the areas where tracks were located. It isn't a dimension for a recess in the pit wall. The recess in the pit wall that appears in the photo of the Oil City turntable isn't detailed on the drawing. I am coincidentally right in the middle of building a model of the 100' Turntable at Shire Oaks Yard (on the Monongahela Division) and I just put a similar recess in the pit wall in my model the other day, based on photographs I had taken. It differs however from the Oil City pit in that the recess extended the whole way up from the shelf the pit rail sat on to the cap around the top of the pit - much taller than in the Oil City photo. I too was wondering what was the purpose of the recess. Thought maybe it was for maintenance access to the end of the bridge - forgot that the " motor/gearbox/wheel assembly in each end of the table" as Evan put it - officially know as the "tractor" on the drawings, might also need accessed on its outside. The pit at Shire Oaks very closely followed that drawing you gave the link to including the step down from the pit rail to the start of the sloping bottom of the pit. Note that this drawing from 1914 only applies to 75', 85' and 100' tables - other sizes and those built later may well have had different designs - such as what you noted in Altoona. The table at Shire Oaks was built shortly after this drawing was issued. Since you started this thread, I have a question as well. A friend and I who is also working on his model turntable have been discussing how fast a typical PRR turntable revolved, in order to build a prototypical speed drive for them. Does any body know how fast they turned? 180 degrees in 15 seconds? 30 seconds? 1 minute? I tried to figure it out from the information on the tractor drawing, but one piece of data is missing. For the 100' table at Shire Oaks (and similar on a number of others) the "gear ratio" from the motor, through the tractor, to the pit rail and up to the turntable bridge works out to be about 792:1. The motor is specified as a 35 hp, 220V AC, 3-phase motor, but its RPM is not given, thus I can't complete the calculation. Looking at similar motors available now, about 1800 RPM is common. If this were what was used, the top speed of the table would be just over 2 RPM, or about 15 seconds per 180 degrees - seems a little fast. If the motor could be run at less than full speed, then this seems reasonable. I did notice large open-air resistors hanging underneath the control shed on the turntable bridge - similar to those that you see under trolley and interurban cars. Were these used to allow the tractor to run at slower speeds than wide-open? I thought about timing one pictured in a commercially available video - but wondered if the way many old films run too fast would bite me. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Jack Consoli ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Shickler To: PRR-Talk Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 4:47 PM Subject: [PRR] Turntable question > I was looking at turntable plans (from 1915) on Rob's site: > http://prr.railfan.net/standards/standards.cgi?plan=61930-A > > and I was wondering about that 11'2" section at the lower right of the > overhead view. It appears to be the opening that you see at the far left of > the following photo of the Oil City turntable: > http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/images/oilctt.jpg > > Does anyone know what that opening was for? > > Also, those drawings show a drop of 2'10" from the rail the bridge rides on > down to the sloping floor of the pit. Photos of the Oil City & Altoona > turntables show that the floor slopes right up to the rail. Anyone know > when this design was changed, or have newer drawings showing this? > > Thanks. > > ----------- > Jerry Shickler > Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 02:01:22 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Roco FP7 OOPS! That is what I get for hitting send to quickly... Ben Hom writes... > That's definitely a disappointment, though the pictured models were the old > Roco tooling. I could have used FP7s for both PRR and Rock Island. Your wish should come true by the end of this summer or maybe even sooner Ben ... Now that your on the modeling committee ... there are benefits... 3^) Greg Martin --part1_143.208766b2.2d40cf42_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" OOPS! That is what I= get for hitting send to quickly...

Ben Hom writes...

That's definitely a disappointm= ent, though the pictured models were the old Roco tooling.  I could hav= e used FP7s for both PRR and Rock Island.


Your wish should come true by the end of this summer or maybe even sooner Be= n ... Now that your on the modeling committee ... there are benefits... 3^)<= BR>
Greg Martin --part1_143.208766b2.2d40cf42_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dave Pfeiffer" Subject: [PRR] Speaking of PRR Coaling Towers... Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:28:27 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out003.verizon.net from [151.197.193.211] at Thu, 22 Jan 2004 07:22:09 -0600 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Does anyone know if the new Walthers coaling tower is appropriate for any PRR tower? Dave Pfeiffer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 07:51:56 -0500 From: TWRimer@uss.com Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/21/04 From: 760331thx@netcourrier.com Subject: [PRR] New from Trix for 2004 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:50:00 CET Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Just saw that Trix (Marklin group) has announced new liveries for its USRA= Mikado, one which is for PRR. Alas, it is announced as an L1...alas, it is an L2. See : http://www.lokshop.de/images/Kataloge/TRX/2004.News/085.jpg Little translation : die-cast boiler, tender and frame, coreless motor in = the boiler, 8-wheel drive (certainly with traction tires), DCC equipped wi= th load regulation and sound, minimum 18 inch radius curves. Price is 324 euros for 2003 NYC version (with sound). Picture on the flyer= is just a prototype, so feel free to mail your comments to Trix USA... -- = Salutations =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F Xavier Thiriet ------------------------------------------------------------- NetCourrier, votre bureau virtuel sur Internet : Mail, Agenda, Clubs, Tool= bar... Web/Wap : www.netcourrier.com T=E9l=E9phone/Fax : 08 92 69 00 21 (0,34 =80 TTC/min) Minitel: 3615 NETCOURRIER (0,16 =80 TTC/min) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 Subject: RE: [PRR] Sleeping car in RRMM Altoona Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:31:21 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] Sleeping car in RRMM Altoona Thread-Index: AcPgkQU/HGIaMvRvQDSY0f7VowRL6AAYzdGw From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jan 2004 14:31:21.0888 (UTC) FILETIME=[680DC200:01C3E0F4] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Last time I visited Altoona,the "Nicholas Firestone" was just outside the fence of the Museum Property along with a Boat-tailed observation car. -----Original Message----- From: Ken Hough [mailto:k4sb@niia.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 8:18 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Sleeping car in RRMM Altoona Birch River! Thanks. I know I saw that car in 30th St as a kid. I think we rode in it. Could it have been on the FEC Champion Or The Seaboard in the 60s? How common were sharing cars? Ken In a message dated 01/20/2004 10:54:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, k4sb@niia.net writes: Years ago my wife and I stopped at the museum=20 in Altoona. In the yard was an old PRR/Amtrak sleeper. As a kid my mom and I went to Fla in the car. Is its name Palm Grove? When my wife=20 and I walked through it I went to room D. It was the same car. Whats the history of it? Ken Greetings to list: If this is the car with stainless steel fluted siding, it is the BIRCH RIVER, which, I think, operated as a PRR car on the Southern Railway. There are two cars=20 from the FOM, however, with painted tuscan car bodies: The HARBOR=20 SPRINGS, a mid-train lounge/sleeper and the JACKS NARROWS, an oval end OBS=20 with bedrooms. D W Seidel, Altoona Ken Hough Photographic Repair Specializing in Deardorff repair and refinishing Shutter repair and Lens recementing Custom machine work www.deardorffcameras.0catch.com 219-462-0281 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:37:00 -0600 Subject: [PRR] N&W hopper trains on the electrified PRR in 1944 From: Bruce Smith Message-Id: <700345F6-4CE8-11D8-A499-000A958DAD46@mail.auburn.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Good Morning, I was reviewing Vol 24, No. 4 of the PRRT&HS Keystone (The PRR and WWII) last night and found lots of interesting things. One of which was the following quote: "So, when this call came on Jan. 4, 1944, for 2:01 it signified a doubleheader; the crew on the lead engine was called for 2:00 a.m. Joe and I got #6755, which was an M1a then, and we coupled to a solid N&W coal train for the Meadows that a Cumberland Valley crew from Hagerstown had yarded on the old line on the river side of the westbound receiving yard" - Gene Steffy, recalling incidents from his time book as a fireman working out of Enola on the PRR during WWII. Some interesting stuff in here... 1) Solid blocks, or in this case an entire train of N&W coal moved to northern New Jersey via the PRR. Routing was Hagerstown to Enola-Columbia-Thorndale-Morrisville-Meadows. Was it loaded into coastal steamers for delivery to N.E., or were the cars ferried to the New Haven, or was the coal unloaded and used in the NYC area? Was this to bypass U-boat activity, or due to a shortage of shipping? 2) The M1 in question was subsequently converted to an M1B and is at the RMPA in Strasburg PA. 3) The trip took 17 hours from Enola to Thorndale (23+ hours to Morrisville) In the past, we have assumed that solid blocks or trains of N&W hopper cars were only found on the PRR on the run North to the Great Lakes. This first hand account indicates that these cars might have been a bit more widely traveled than just that route. Now I feel perfectly justified in my 2 ECW H2s...and maybe I need more! My unnumbered BLI M1a will become 6755 to . Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] Section shanty at Altoona Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:28:39 -0500 From: John Sheets [mailto:john@mpa-inc.com] Subject: [PRR] Section shanty at Altoona From: Paul Stumpff Subject: [PRR] RE: PRR Coaling Towers Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:34:17 -0500 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:22:08 -0600 Subject: [PRR] PRR/PULLMAN P30A Troop Sleepers etc.. From: Bruce Smith Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hello Again, Obviously, I had too much time on my hands last night...In reading a number of back issues of the Keystone, I started to wonder about the X32A boxcar conversions on the PRR. 1) When were the P30A Troop sleepers lettered for PULLMAN? The Keystone article on the conversions has a photo of a porthole window sleeper lettered PENNSYLVANIA and a rebuilt square windowed car (circa 11/43) lettered PULLMAN. Were the porthole cars ever lettered PULLMAN or did the relettering take place when the windows were changed? 2) The P30As were painted Tuscan when converted (and lettered PENNSYLVANIA). Was the roof black or tuscan? How about after they were lettered PULLMAN? Did the body color remain Tuscan? (I believe it did, but I'm not sure...) 3) The P78 conversions (P78, P78A, P78B, P78T) of the X32A were painted Tuscan...was the roof Tuscan or black? I'm trying to figure out how to paint my Railworks porthole P30A so its ready to run with my Walthers Troop Sleepers and my P78s. (Yeah, I KNOW, the PRR porthole window sleepers overlapped the phase 1 PULLMAN built sleepers for <6 months of 1943 and the Walthers cars are phase 2 anyway...but mine will become phase 1 sleepers and nothing says "Pennsy" like portholes!) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:17:15 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] N&W hopper trains on the electrified PRR in 1944] From: Bruce Smith Message-Id: <96E6C420-4D0F-11D8-A499-000A958DAD46@mail.auburn.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Let me pass on a response from Tim Gilbert on the Steam era freight car list that I think you will find VERY interesting! Those of us modeling the WWII years need to account for increases in coal traffic in response to maratime conditions, in addition to oil. - Bruce Bruce Smith wrote: > 1) Solid blocks, or in this case an entire train of N&W coal moved to > northern New Jersey via the PRR. Routing was Hagerstown to > Enola-Columbia-Thorndale-Morrisville-Meadows. Was it loaded into > coastal steamers for delivery to N.E., or were the cars ferried to the > New Haven, or was the coal unloaded and used in the NYC area? Was this > to bypass U-boat activity, or due to a shortage of shipping? Most of the coastal packet steamers remaining after the Depression had been ceded to the US Maritime Authority in November/December 1941. These steamers were used in overseas service. (These packets of the Merchant & Merchants, Savannah and Eastern Transportation Lines, however, did carry coal.) The colliers, which prior to WW II, did tote coal from Hampton Roads to New York and New England, had likewise been transferred to export service during the War. Because of the paucity of maritime shipping, the round trip of hoppers from mines to unloading and back empty to the mines increased from 14 to 21 days. This created a hopper car shortage. To alleviate this shortage, the transshipment ports for coal was shifted from the Hampton Roads to New York Harbor where the coal was transferred to barges for New York City, Southern & Northern New England as well as probably up the Hudson River. Many of the barges used in the Northern New England service were schooner barges which averaged about 200' long and whose hulls resembled a sailing schooner - whatever masts they had probably had been removed from these barges which had been built between 1900 & 1910. The U-Boat menace on the Coast was pretty much over by the end of 1942 so the reason for the block of hoppers going to the Meadows in 1944 was the paucity of shipping available for this trade other than the barges. After the War, the coal trade from Hampton Roads to New England resumed. Many of the colliers were of the SEAM Class which were built during the War using an elongated version of the Liberty Ship hull. Hope this helps, Tim Gilbert Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] LGB GG1 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 20:21:28 +0000 From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] BLI M1b Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:05:02 -0500 From: "L. Heintz" Subject: [PRR] Re : Coaling towers Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:47:18 -0500 After I sent that message I realized that I intended to ask , Was there = ever any PRR medium to small size (Emporium) coal towers written = up/plans in any of the model magazines ?? =20 lah ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C3E10F.C7DFD540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
After I sent that message I realized = that I=20 intended to ask , Was there ever any PRR  medium to small = size=20 (Emporium) coal towers written up/plans in any of the model = magazines=20 ??  
 
lah
------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C3E10F.C7DFD540-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI M1b Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:49:31 -0500 To: "Chany, Christopher" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I received my shipment yesterday. So, yes, they are out. On Jan 22, 2004, at 4:05 PM, Chany, Christopher wrote: > Listers, > =A0 > A friend of mine who is not on this list received his BLI M1b=A0 from=20= > Tony's Train exchange today! > =A0 > He said it looks runs and sounds great. > =A0 > =A0 > BTW Where did BLI get the sounds for the T1 and M1? > =A0 > Chris Chany > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:03:11 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Re : Coaling towers X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 46 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I've read this thread with great interest as the names of places I used to know were mentioned. But, the thought struck me, "When was the last time that the coaling towers that still exist were used for the purpose intended?" A coaling tower has not been used to fuel a train in normal railroad service in 50 to 60 years. Why would any coaling tower still exist today? If the towers were on property owned by an entity with an obligation to pay taxes, wouldn't it have been prudent to knock the towers down and return the land to as close to "unimproved" as possible, thereby, reducing property tax liability? I am interested that coaling towers still exist. A more interesting question is, "How come?" Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "dfc PRR 7002" Subject: [PRR] Hoodlebug Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:37:43 -0500 From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re : Coaling towers Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:42:37 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <148.210331fd.2d41bebf@aol.com> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The one in the pictures recently posted was concrete. Pretty expensive to tear down. I see one in New Haven off of I-90 when I'm headed to NY to visit my daughter. Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of LAMAassoc@aol.com Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 7:03 PM To: lheintz2@rochester.rr.com; prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Re : Coaling towers I've read this thread with great interest as the names of places I used to know were mentioned. But, the thought struck me, "When was the last time that the coaling towers that still exist were used for the purpose intended?" A coaling tower has not been used to fuel a train in normal railroad service in 50 to 60 years. Why would any coaling tower still exist today? If the towers were on property owned by an entity with an obligation to pay taxes, wouldn't it have been prudent to knock the towers down and return the land to as close to "unimproved" as possible, thereby, reducing property tax liability? I am interested that coaling towers still exist. A more interesting question is, "How come?" Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 21:45:23 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Re : Coaling towers X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-14 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: aurora7@juno.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The one in the old New Haven yards at Cedarhill is a big mother, too! They are still standing on the BAngor and Aroostook tracks in several places, in Morris Park or the LIRR, and who can say where else. They are solid concrete with re-bar inside. Many still hold coal for locomotives that will never come. The weight, the magnitude of breaking up, the disposal...all figure into the demolision costs. If they should fall across used trackage, it's even worse. Better to leave them standing. They sure aren't going to blow over. Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "There are no stupid questions, but there are many inquisitive idiots." ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 22:10:20 -0500 From: Jerry Jordak Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR Coaling Towers Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: > Girard, Ohio on E&A at end of former LE&E [Girard Jct.]. Northside of I-80. > Condition continues to deteriorate, I haven't had time to stop there in > three years. Picture of it in late 1960s on Mr. Elwood's Fallen Flag Site. That coaling tower is still there as of a month or two, the last time I drove across the north side of Youngstown. I'm still trying to get a shot of either an NS or Ohio Central train passing it. Also, the coaling tower at Wheatland, PA, that Jerry Shickler posted the link to the photo of is still there as of two weeks ago. It stands in the middle of a large open area on the property of a trucking company. An industrial spur track curves into the company's property behind the coaling tower, so it is possible to photograph a train passing it (on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, when NS works that line). -JWJ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Elmira Branch Book Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 22:55:48 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, I have recently bought the Elmira book from an Ebay win, luckily for about $25.00. I have seen it go as high as $60.00 over the years. It is a book not often seen listed on Ebay. I have a habit of paying a lot more for something that was once readily available by deciding that I want it after it is not available! (:->) Since receiving it, I have not put it down. It makes me wish it were a thicker book. It is such an interesting area. I am not going out and buying Lightning Stripe decals and gray paint, but the competing roads seemed to have a share and share alike agreement up there. The photos of multiple I1 giving their all heading north on a single track mainline to Sodus Point is unlike most other areas of the PRR. When you add to that, almost anything else available was used for additional helper power makes it even more interesting. I am somewhat glad I bought this after reading "Set Up Running", and the Hastings "Pennsy Portrait" book. The Elmira and the Hastings books have the magnificent photos of the bridges with Seneca Lake in the background. I did not know these bridges existed until seeing those photos. Is that line still active? The photo in the Hastings book with the I1 really put the scale of the scene in perspective. The Elmira book is definitely inspiring me to get both of my I1 out of the box and painting them after 8+ years! I also have at least 4 extra tenders I will include in the run as well. I am still the biggest fan of the Mighty PRR 4 track mainline. But the Elmira branch would be a very viable area to model as well. Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 22:55:48 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Elmira Branch Book Hi All, I have recently bought the Elmira book from an Ebay win, luckily for about $25.00. I have seen it go as high as $60.00 over the years. It is a book not often seen listed on Ebay. I have a habit of paying a lot more for something that was once readily available by deciding that I want it after it is not available! (:->) Since receiving it, I have not put it down. It makes me wish it were a thicker book. It is such an interesting area. I am not going out and buying Lightning Stripe decals and gray paint, but the competing roads seemed to have a share and share alike agreement up there. The photos of multiple I1 giving their all heading north on a single track mainline to Sodus Point is unlike most other areas of the PRR. When you add to that, almost anything else available was used for additional helper power makes it even more interesting. I am somewhat glad I bought this after reading "Set Up Running", and the Hastings "Pennsy Portrait" book. The Elmira and the Hastings books have the magnificent photos of the bridges with Seneca Lake in the background. I did not know these bridges existed until seeing those photos. Is that line still active? The photo in the Hastings book with the I1 really put the scale of the scene in perspective. The Elmira book is definitely inspiring me to get both of my I1 out of the box and painting them after 8+ years! I also have at least 4 extra tenders I will include in the run as well. I am still the biggest fan of the Mighty PRR 4 track mainline. But the Elmira branch would be a very viable area to model as well. Thanks Bill "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 23:00:12 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/21/04 In a message dated 1/21/04 1:29:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Panhandle Division > From: "David Honner" > Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 17:29:06 +1100 > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C3E044.15B3AAC0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi, > > I'm after some information on the prototype PRR Panhandle division. I'd > like to have a copy of the system maps that show the lines, grades and turns > from about Burgettstown to the junction with the Cadiz branch, although > information further east and west would also be appreciated. > > I have the Keystone journal articles showing this information for the > branches in this area (Wheeling, River, Cadiz, etc.) (Summer 94) but > frustratingly the same articles on the mainline don't show this (Winter 90). > > If you do not have this do you know where I might obtain it? I am hoping > to model something in this region and would like a little more information. > Many thanks, > > David Honner > Hello David, Funny you should ask about the Panhandle Division... just this week I pulled out a 1990 Conrail Indianapolis Division employee timetable I'd been given -- and noticed the Division Superintendent was R.L.Hoover. In case you don't recognize the reference, Dick Hoover, a PRR/PC/Conrail veteran, was the grand old man of Panhandle Division history. He retired a few years back and was preparing to write about the Division when he was struck by a fatal heart attack. To my knowledge, his only book published was a pamphlet about the railroads and stations of Coshocton OH (PRR and W&LE/NKP). Returning to your request, the "system maps" you describe are called Track Charts. Originals can be expensive, but there's a vendor in Wisconsin named Dave Cramer who sells nice copies of these charts -- why can't I ever find his address or email when I want it? Failing that, I think many years ago Bob Reid of Rails Northeast and Pennsy Journal copied track charts for lines as far west of Columbus -- but frankly those copies may be hard to locate. Best of luck with your quest -- and stay alert for the several other modelers on this list that concentrate on parts of the Panhandle line between Pittsburgh and Columbus. I'm between Columbus and Xenia this time... Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West --part1_17a.24ff5b31.2d41f64c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a messa= ge dated 1/21/04 1:29:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:=


Subject: Panhandle Division
From: "David Honner" <dhonn@primus.com.au>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 17:29:06 +1100

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=3D_NextPart_000_0004_01C3E044.15B3AAC0
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset=3D"iso-8859-1"

Hi,

  I'm after some information on the prototype PRR Panhandle division. I= 'd
like to have a copy of the system maps that show the lines, grades and turns=
from about Burgettstown to the junction with the Cadiz branch, although
information further east and west would also be appreciated.

  I have the Keystone journal articles showing this information for the=
branches in this area (Wheeling, River, Cadiz, etc.) (Summer 94) but
frustratingly the same articles on the mainline don't show this (Winter 90).=

  If you do not have this do you know where I might obtain it? I am hop= ing
to model something in this region and would like a little more information.<= BR> Many thanks,

David Honner


Hello David,

Funny you should ask about the Panhandle Division... just this week I pulled= out a 1990 Conrail Indianapolis Division employee timetable I'd been given=20= -- and noticed the Division Superintendent was R.L.Hoover.  In case you= don't recognize the reference, Dick Hoover, a PRR/PC/Conrail veteran, was t= he grand old man of Panhandle Division history.  He retired a few years= back and was preparing to write about the Division when he was struck by a=20= fatal heart attack.  To my knowledge, his only book published was a pam= phlet about the railroads and stations of Coshocton OH (PRR and W&LE/NKP= ).

Returning to your request, the "system maps" you describe are called Track C= harts.  Originals can be expensive, but there's a vendor in Wisconsin n= amed Dave Cramer who sells nice copies of these charts -- why can't I ever f= ind his address or email when I want it?  Failing that, I think many ye= ars ago Bob Reid of Rails Northeast and Pennsy Journal copied=20= track charts for lines as far west of Columbus -- but frankly those copies m= ay be hard to locate.

Best of luck with your quest -- and stay alert for the several other modeler= s on this list that concentrate on parts of the Panhandle line between Pitts= burgh and Columbus.  I'm between Columbus and Xenia this time...

           &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO
(Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968)
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   And Remembering PRR Lines West
--part1_17a.24ff5b31.2d41f64c_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 20:00:52 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Hoodlebug Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 06:48:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re : Coaling towers From: Jamie Bothwell In-Reply-To: <20040122.214524.-550161.2.aurora7@juno.com> Message-Id: <0B941EA2-4D9A-11D8-8C22-000393A994E0@verizon.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out004.verizon.net from [151.201.153.225] at Fri, 23 Jan 2004 05:47:35 -0600 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, January 22, 2004, at 09:45 PM, aurora7@juno.com wrote: > If they should fall > across used trackage, it's even worse. Better to leave them standing. > They sure aren't going to blow over. > Hi All, I remember a few years back when Conrail blew up an ex-PRR tower between Pittsburgh and Altoona. It was SUPPOSED to fall to the side of the tracks. The main was blocked for quite awhile! Jamie Bothwell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 08:53:39 EST Subject: [PRR] Off Subj: Sunrise NMRA Show The Sunrise Division of the NMRA (Aurora, Colorado) is hosting their annual train show and swap meet at the Buckingham Square Shopping Center (mall) in Aurora, Colorado during Presidents' Day Weekend, Feb. 14 through the 16. There are usually between ten to twelve operating layouts set up plus numerous sales and swap tables, typically eighty to ninety tables. The show is FREE with the shopping center's doors opening at 9 on Saturday and Monday and 10 on Sunday. The shopping center is located at the intersection of Havana and Mississippi streets in Aurora, Colorado, approx. two miles west of Interstate 225 on Mississippi. Note that some of the vendors and layouts will not be there on Monday as they are unfortunate like the rest of us having to work. PS Please don't forget that Feb. 14 is Valentine's Day; your "significant other" may not find that long sought after car, kit or loco that you bring home to be an appropriate Valentine's Day offering. If you are an SPF or a Reading fan, please stop by the Sunrise layout as there are three of us modeling PRR and one doing the Reading. Hope to see you there. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1074866019 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
The Sunrise Division of the NMRA  (Aurora, Colorado) is hosti= ng their annual train show and swap meet at the Buckingham Square Shopping C= enter (mall) in Aurora, Colorado during Presidents' Day Weekend, Feb. 14 thr= ough the 16.  There are usually between ten to twelve operating layouts= set up plus numerous sales and swap tables, typically eighty to ninety tabl= es.
 
The show is FREE with the shopping center's doors opening at 9 on=20= Saturday and Monday and 10 on Sunday.  The shopping center is located a= t the intersection of Havana and Mississippi streets in Aurora, Colorado, ap= prox. two miles west of Interstate 225 on Mississippi.  Note that some=20= of the vendors and layouts will not be there on Monday as they are unfortuna= te like the rest of us having to work. 
 
PS   Please don't forget that Feb. 14 is Valentine's Day;&nbs= p; your "significant other" may not find that long sought after car, kit or=20= loco that you bring home to be an appropriate Valentine's Day offering.=  <GRIN>
 
If you are an SPF or a Reading fan, please stop by the Sunrise layout a= s there are three of us modeling PRR and one doing the Reading.
 
Hope to see you there.

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1074866019-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:05:02 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Philip Taylor Subject: [PRR] Coal, WWII, C&O and PRR? X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Another twist to this might be C&O. During the WWII era it was not uncommon for C&O to send 12 coal trains of up to 80 cars to Potomac Yards each day. I have always wondered where they went from there. I assumed that some would have gone PRR, but has anyone seen anything about this?\ Philip Taylor ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:14:43 -0500 Subject: [PRR] MoW Paint Color and "S" Cars From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <7D7DF88C-4DAE-11D8-9E10-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Steve Bowyer posted this in response to a query on the Atlas N Scale Forum. It's been discussed here, at times, but his summary is concise and appears to be accurate. For the sake of having one decent summary... ----------------------------------------------------------- "S" service cars & M.O.W. cars were all classified by the PRR as "work equip". "S" cars came into existance in 1960. Until that time the PRR transported in own stuff mainly in its LCL cars. When these cars were phased out, the PRR started to take std revenue cars for use in delivering their own stuff. These cars were, for the most part, left in std paint, renumbered as non-revenue & had the "S" in the box added. The reason for the "S" was to allow for easy identification & help expidite movement. These cars were used for transportation & it is unlikely that they were stenciled for any particular item. As stated previously M.O.W. cars were painted "battleship gray" until 1953 & after that time "camp yellow". Remember, that M.O.W. cars were seldom outshopped or repainted, so those cars that were painted gray most likely stayed gray for the rest of their lives. In addition we should be aware that many M.O.W. cars served as small machine shops or storage on wheels. Therefore it was common to stencil them for what they contained. If you model before 1953 only gray cars are appropriate. After that, mix as you desire. With regaurd to use of the X-29. Bob, go to "PRR Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment Vol. 3" (Ian S. Fisches). Go directly to pg 113, do not pass go, do not collect $200. The reason I am using this as an example is that it is not only an X-29, it is a what I call a modernized version. The horizontal break wheel & corrigated ends is a give away. This picture was taken in 1975 showing how long they lasted, yet the car is gray indicating is what placed in the work fleet prior to 1953. This car also has the "S" added, indicating it was moved to the "Service" fleet in 1960 or later. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 06:29:45 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Re : Coaling towers From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] Timonium Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:29:54 -0500 Those of you attending Timonium this weekend look for our e-Store vendor Tom Salmon, of Club E-Stores, who will have a table there. Al ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C3E193.7577E660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Message
Those of you attending Timonium = this weekend=20 look for our e-Store vendor Tom Salmon, of Club E-Stores, who will = have a=20 table there.
 
Al
------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C3E193.7577E660-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Paul Stumpff Subject: Re: [PRR] Hoodlebug Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:43:14 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Hoodlebug From: "robert netzlof" Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 20:00:52 -0800 (PST) From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Coaling Towers Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:32:26 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-MDRemoteIP: 192.0.1.150 X-Return-Path: geshick@velocity.net X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: prr-talk@dsop.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I thought I remembered one being at Redbank, because someone had sent a photo link a few years back. I couldn't find it when I posted the other photo links, because I thought Redbank was 2 words. Oh, well. Here it is: http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/6652/coaltower.jpg Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:13:04 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Coal, WWII, C&O and PRR? From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, January 23, 2004, at 08:05 AM, Philip Taylor wrote: > > Another twist to this might be C&O. During the WWII era it was not > uncommon for C&O to send 12 coal trains of up to 80 cars to Potomac > Yards each day. I have always wondered where they went from there. I > assumed that some would have gone PRR, but has anyone seen anything > about this?\ > > Philip Taylor Indeed a possibility. It is also important to remember that many individual cars of C&O and B&O origin were handled by the PRR, and show up frequently in yard shots. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re : Coaling towers Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:34:10 -0500 I think I have told this one before so forgive me if it was here that I told it. It was Halloween (probably the day before) of 1962. Work crews had spent the previous week setting up explosives in the Harrisburg (PA) coaling tower. In the news all week was the story that Castro was planning to launch a missle attack from Cuba on the US. My pregnant wife and I were among a crowd assembled on the curb of Market Street about 7:30 in the evening awaiting the start of the Halloween parade when all of a sudden there was a LOUD explosion, followed by the air raid sireens going off. We all had a collective heart attack on the spot and people were literally jumping into the sewer grates. And thus ended the long history of the PRR coaling tower in Harrisburg. Enola stood for a few years more. Bill Volkmer X-PRR employee -----Original Message----- From: robert netzlof [mailto:wb3iqe@rocketmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 9:30 AM To: Jamie Bothwell; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Re : Coaling towers --- Jamie Bothwell wrote: > I remember a few years back when Conrail blew up an ex-PRR tower > between Pittsburgh and Altoona. It was SUPPOSED to fall to the > side of the tracks. The main was blocked for quite awhile! In a similar vein, the Buffalo Rochester and Pittsburgh built 5 cast concrete interlocking towers around 1910 (give or take a few years). In 1931 BR&P was merged into the B&O. In the 1970's, the B&O installed a centrally controlled signal system, decided the towers were redundant and should go. After going through all the trouble it took to demolish one, they decided it wasn't worth the hassle. (That's why one of our number was able to see one of them at Falls Creek a couple of years ago.) If the stories I've heard are correct, what started as "hit it with the headache ball until it breaks" turned into multiple rounds of drill and blast, each round using increasing amounts of dynamite. Perhaps similar considerations account for concrete coaling towers still standing in out of the way places? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C3E1A4.D367D7B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
I=20 think I have told this one before so forgive me if it was here that I = told=20 it.
 
It was=20 Halloween (probably the day before) of 1962.  Work crews had spent = the=20 previous week setting up explosives in the Harrisburg (PA) coaling=20 tower.
 
In the=20 news all week was the story that Castro was planning to launch a missle = attack=20 from Cuba on the US.
 
My=20 pregnant wife and I were among a crowd assembled on the curb of Market = Street=20 about 7:30 in the evening awaiting the start of the Halloween parade = when all of=20 a sudden there was a LOUD explosion, followed by the air raid sireens = going=20 off.  We all had a collective heart attack on the spot and people = were=20 literally jumping into the sewer grates.
 
And=20 thus ended the long history of the PRR coaling tower in = Harrisburg.  Enola=20 stood for a few years more.
 
Bill=20 Volkmer  X-PRR employee
-----Original Message-----
From: = robert netzlof=20 [mailto:wb3iqe@rocketmail.com]
Sent: Friday, January 23, = 2004 9:30=20 AM
To: Jamie Bothwell; PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: = Re:=20 [PRR] Re : Coaling towers

--- Jamie Bothwell <vze4cs43@verizon.net>=20 wrote:

> I remember a few years back when Conrail blew up an = ex-PRR=20 tower
> between Pittsburgh and Altoona.  It was SUPPOSED to = fall to=20 the
> side of the tracks.  The main was blocked for quite=20 awhile!

In a similar vein, the Buffalo Rochester and Pittsburgh = built 5=20 cast
concrete interlocking towers around 1910 (give or take a few=20 years).
In 1931 BR&P was merged into the B&O. In the = 1970's, the=20 B&O
installed a centrally controlled signal system, decided the = towers
were redundant and should go.

After going through all = the=20 trouble it took to demolish one, they
decided it wasn't worth the = hassle.=20 (That's why one of our number was
able to see one of them at Falls = Creek a=20 couple of years ago.) If the
stories I've heard are correct, what = started=20 as "hit it with the
headache ball until it breaks" turned into = multiple=20 rounds of drill
and blast, each round using increasing amounts of=20 dynamite.

Perhaps similar considerations account for concrete = coaling=20 towers
still standing in out of the way = places?

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Bob Netzlof=20 a/k/a Sweet Old = Bob


__________________________________
Do you=20 Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try = it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/p= s/sb/

--------------------------------------------------------= ---------------
For=20 assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

<= /P>

------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C3E1A4.D367D7B0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR/PULLMAN P30A Troop Sleepers etc.. Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:35:13 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:37:53 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders From: Bruce Smith Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hello, Once again it seems like I am working on a product review ...this time the Broadway M1A/Bs and in doing my background research I had the following questions: 1) When did the lettering PENNSYLVANIA go from condensed to spread out on the 210F75 tenders? There are any number of photos from 1937 and 1938 with condensed lettering and then, post 1945, it is all spread out. Is the change spelled out on any lettering diagram? 2) I assume that the freight only M1As and M1Bs had buff lettering, although they had keystones. Is this correct and were the keystone borders and numbers gold leaf, or buff? 3) Was the lettering/numbers on the passenger assigned M1s and M1As gold leaf? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR/PULLMAN P30A Troop Sleepers etc.. Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:53:18 +0000 From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:25:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bruce, Your question #2. Answer, according to the Painting Instructions of 1929, Gold Leaf was used onl all Keystone Number Plates, including those M1 and M1a locomotives in Freight service. Need to research your other questions more closely....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR/PULLMAN P30A Troop Sleepers etc. Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:46:51 -0500 Ben and list: The article was in the Autumn 1998 Keystone; photos on page 38. The = side view is too small to show it, but the locations of the windows were = clearly visible on the outside. I still have the original photos, including a close-up of the left portion of the side. All four window locations are visible on the outside, denoted by thin circular weld lines and the = circular array of rivets that held the window frames in place. Bob Johnson ----- Original Message -----=20 From: To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 12:53 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR/PULLMAN P30A Troop Sleepers etc.. | Dennis Rockwell wrote: | I've wondered if these were converted back to boxcars, and | if the sides were replaced, or if the portholes were simply | plated over, like the ACF troop sleepers were. | | They were converted back to boxcars. The Keystone article on these = cars | (Summer 2001 IIRC) had interior and exterior photos of one of these = cars | taken during the 1960s, and you can clearly see where the portholes = were | plated over on the interior of the car. However, you couldn't tell = that the | car had been a war emergncy car from the exterior photo! | | | Ben Hom ------=_NextPart_000_013D_01C3E1B7.5AA91100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Ben and list:

The article was = in the=20 Autumn 1998 Keystone; photos on page 38.  The side
view is too = small to=20 show it, but the locations of the windows were clearly
visible on the = outside.  I still have the original photos, including a
close-up = of the=20 left portion of the side.  All four window locations are
visible = on the=20 outside, denoted by thin circular weld lines and the circular
array = of rivets=20 that held the window frames in place.

Bob Johnson

----- = Original=20 Message -----
From: <b.hom@att.net>
To: "PRR-Talk" = <Prr-Talk@dsop.com>
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: = [PRR]=20 PRR/PULLMAN P30A Troop Sleepers etc..


| Dennis Rockwell = wrote:
|=20 I've wondered if these were converted back to boxcars, and
| if the = sides=20 were replaced, or if the portholes were simply
| plated over, like = the ACF=20 troop sleepers were.
|
| They were converted back to = boxcars.  The=20 Keystone article on these cars
| (Summer 2001 IIRC) had interior and = exterior=20 photos of one of these cars
| taken during the 1960s, and you can = clearly see=20 where the portholes were
| plated over on the interior of the = car. =20 However, you couldn't tell that
the
| car had been a war emergncy = car from=20 the exterior photo!
|
|
| Ben = Hom
------=_NextPart_000_013D_01C3E1B7.5AA91100-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR/PULLMAN P30A Troop Sleepers etc.. Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:50:12 +0000 From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:30:30 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Smith" > 1) When did the lettering PENNSYLVANIA go from condensed to spread out > on the 210F75 tenders? There are any number of photos from 1937 and > 1938 with condensed lettering and then, post 1945, it is all spread > out. Is the change spelled out on any lettering diagram? Don't remember seeing any lettering charts in the time period in my library. However,to complicate matters, Bruce, several 1941 and 1942 photos show extended lettering, but Futura! Or at least some sans serif face. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:05:31 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR/PULLMAN P30A Troop Sleepers etc.. From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, January 23, 2004, at 10:35 AM, Dennis Rockwell wrote: > > There's a photo in the VT imagebase of converted > round-roof with the number 6890; it's got portholes and > rectangular upper windows (vents? they're pretty small). > > The roof is pretty clearly black. > > http://imagebase.lib.vt.edu/view_record.php?URN=ns2624 Wow, Neat photo...wonder what its doing in the N&W files? Of note, this is not a P30A, but rather it appears to be the prototype "command car" (only one was ever built). Looking closely at the bottom of the photo, it is labeled, "P54" and "11-27-42". I think that the car number is erroneously reported by the VT Imagebase as 6890. It is very difficult to see the digits, but the Keystone shows a photo of 6899, the command car, with PRR's label indicating "P54". Also telling is the blanked window on the rightmost panel. These are only present on #6899 and the P78 coaches, AFAIK. Since the P78s also had a window in the leftmost panel, this is not a P78. Finally, if the date were later, the fact that the car rides on Barrett-Whitehead (2D-F22C tucks) not Allied Full Cushion (2D-F23) trucks would be important. It being November 1942, this is not that important as the decision to require the AFC trucks on the P30A for interchange was not made until Feb 10, 1943. #6899 was converted to a P78A suburban coach in May, 1943. The bottom line is that the roof of 6899 is clearly black, making it likely that the other cars were painted in a similar fashion (matching PRR's painting instructions for passenger cars). Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:09:03 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, January 23, 2004, at 01:30 PM, Bob Zoeller wrote: > Don't remember seeing any lettering charts in the time period in my > library. > However,to complicate matters, Bruce, several 1941 and 1942 photos show > extended lettering, but Futura! Or at least some sans serif face. > > Bob Zoeller Bob, I'm not sure that actually complicates matters . My thought process was that the change was likely to have been made at the same time the style of lettering changed, which left me with the choice of when it went to Futura or when it changed back. BTW, where are those photos of long tenders in Futura lettering? Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:32:23 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Weekly Photo Sharing Forum Started From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <4002B918-4DE3-11D8-9E10-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Please share your PRR photos (models and proto) interactively on our new weekly event. Week Two has been kicked off at http://forum.pennsyrr.com:8010/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=18 . ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:39:22 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Timonium Show Tomorrow From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <39D71831-4DE4-11D8-9E10-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Anyone going to the Timonium show tomorrow? I should be there mid-morning with my young apprentice (Andrew, 6). Will be around until mid-afternoon. Will likely spend a good bit of time near the N modular layout as I know some of their operators from online. They're calling for snow on Sunday, so tomorrow is the day to go... ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:41:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bruce, What a strange case of the M1a blues!!!! I have lots and lots of photos of M1 M1a and B's and I just noticed something. I have absolutely nothing from the war years. Policing must have been 100 times worse than 9/11 security. Inspecting the lettering of the tenders, every thing prior to 1942 is 99.9999% short spacing and everthing after 1946 is extended spacing. Somewhere in between was the changeover. But, I do have some pics of M1's from 1941 with what appears to be extended spacing but it is in the Futura style. You want to see a futura M1a, look in the NJ International book Classic Power #8 "M1 Dual Service Mountains" Page 26 shows one, #6743 Dated May 1942. Getting back to my pics I spotted M1 6881 with Futura extended spacing from Oct 1940. So if that photo is dated properly we can narrow it down to late 1940-early 1941 when the first switch to wider spacing occured, albeit, futura. But there were still many more short spacings on the roster than the newer wider spacing. Still looking for mre data.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] MoW Paint Color and "S" Cars Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:15:47 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 In-Reply-To: <7D7DF88C-4DAE-11D8-9E10-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: 1. The generalization of PRR work equipment as MW cars is a typical railfan misnomer. The Maintenance of Way department (more appropriately referred to as MW - not MOW) was but one of the several organizations that used work equipment. Many pieces of work equipment were used by the Mechanical Department (wreck trains), the C&S Department, the B&B department, the ET department (wire trains) and the Material and Stores Department (S cars). So it is more proper to refer to this pool of company service equipment as work equipment not MW equipment. 2. The "S" cars were under the control of the Material and Stores Department and used for the distribution of company material through out the system. 3. Re If you model before 1953 only gray cars are appropriate. Add to that statement and after 1940, as before then work equipment was FCC. So prior to 1940 work equipment was FCC, 1941-1953 existing work equipment was FCC phasing into gray, and after 1953 existing work equipment was gray phasing into yellow. It's reasonable to assume that revenue equipment being converted to work equipment was painted the standard color of the time, except for the "S" car fleet, which by and large remained FCC. As I've said many times use photos to make sure of your accuracy for any specific model. 4. Re Steve Bowyer's comment - "Remember, that M.O.W. cars were seldom outshopped or repainted, so those cars that were painted gray most likely stayed gray for the rest of their lives." The color of work equipment from gray to yellow took place in 1953. By that time most likely all of the XL conversions to work equipment had occurred and of course would have been painted gray. We see so many pieces of work equipment (including the XL) that had been converted from revenue equipment prior to 1953 painted yellow there obviously was an effort to repaint this equipment, post 1953. I think the quoted statement above, that cars "most likely stayed gray for the rest of their lives" is not correct. 5. With regard to the X-29 on page 113 of the "PRR Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment Vol. 3" (Ian S. Fischer). This picture was taken in 1975 showing how long they lasted, yet the car is gray indicating is what placed in the work fleet prior to 1953. This car also has the "S" added, indicating it was moved to the "Service" fleet in 1960 or later. Be very, very careful in using any post merger pictures to justify a pre merger condition. Given the cars gray color it was most likely placed in work equipment status before 1953. However, the yellow "S," sans box, was not standard marking (not that, that means anything) and to me, smacks of a PC application. Although I might not be correct in this particular case. If you ever see the photo of the other ("A") end of this car at this same location the coupler is missing, which leads me to believe this car may have been a stationary sand supply car at this location. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:19:24 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR/PULLMAN P30A Troop Sleepers etc.. Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Why would this be in the VT photos which were donated by Norfolk Southern from the old N&W files? Could they have been transported from Pullman-Standard in Chicago to somewhere on the N&W for military use? Ft. Eustis (transportation Corps) is off the C&O mainline as was the Hampton Roads Port of Embarcation. I'll send this along to the N&W list and see if they have any thoughts. Jim McDaniel, Delmarva, VT Class of '72 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:17:44 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, January 23, 2004, at 02:41 PM, Gary Mittner wrote: > Bruce, > > What a strange case of the M1a blues!!!! I have lots and lots of > photos of M1 M1a and B's and I just noticed something. I have > absolutely > nothing from the war years. > Policing must have been 100 times worse than > 9/11 security. Inspecting the lettering of the tenders, every thing > prior to 1942 is 99.9999% short spacing and everthing after 1946 is > extended spacing. Somewhere in between was the changeover. That's what I noticed in a brief review of photos last night and this morning! Its really an amazing transition between all short spacing prewar and all long spacing postwar with an almost complete blank in between! > But, I do > have some pics of M1's from 1941 with what appears to be extended > spacing but it is in the Futura style. You want to see a futura M1a, > look in the NJ International book Classic Power #8 "M1 Dual Service > Mountains" Page 26 shows one, #6743 Dated May 1942. > > Getting back to my pics I spotted M1 6881 with Futura extended > spacing from Oct 1940. So if that photo is dated properly we can > narrow > it down to late 1940-early 1941 when the first switch to wider spacing > occured, albeit, futura. But there were still many more short spacings > on the roster than the newer wider spacing. Still looking for mre > data..... So the question is, are there any Futura lettered M1 tenders with short spacing? Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:35:08 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Re : Coaling towers When Conrail decided to take down the coaling tower in Enola the contractor they hired found out why a number of the WW 2 era built towers were still standing. During that period rebar was a war material and unavailable. Any heavy concrete rr construction during that period ended up with old small section rail instead of rebar. So you had a 75 lb. per yard rebar inside all that concrete. Most B&B people who had been around long enough knew this and figured it would take too much effort to demolish the structures. The one at Truxall was the one which came straight down on the tracks instead of toppling over like the demolision contractor thought. This was a WW2 era tower. ----------------Ken McCorry --part1_3d.39e21081.2d42ed8c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" When Conrail=20= decided to take down the coaling tower in Enola the contractor they hired fo= und out why a number of the WW 2 era built towers were still standing. Durin= g that period rebar was a war material and unavailable. Any heavy concrete r= r construction during that period ended up with old small section rail inste= ad of rebar. So you had a 75 lb. per yard rebar inside all that concrete. Mo= st B&B people who had been around long enough knew this and figured it w= ould take too much effort to demolish the structures. The one at Truxall was= the one which came straight down on the tracks instead of toppling over lik= e the demolision contractor thought. This was a WW2 era tower. -------------= ---Ken McCorry=20

--part1_3d.39e21081.2d42ed8c_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:45:25 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] MoW Paint Color and "S" Cars Al, I recall in the late 1960's getting into the 250 ton steam wreck derrick when the M. of E. person was checking the boiler one day and asking about the wreck derricks having MW stenciled on them . He told me that they showed them on the MW Equpiment register but M.of E. people operated them. I thought that the B&B dept came under the Engineering dept and would be marked MW also. Pat McKinney --part1_ba.4e423043.2d42eff5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Al,
     I recall in the late 1960's getting into the 250 to= n steam wreck derrick when the M. of E. person was checking the boiler one d= ay and asking about the wreck derricks having MW stenciled on them . He told= me that they showed them on the MW Equpiment register but M.of E. people op= erated them.
   I thought that the B&B dept came under the Engineering dept= and would be marked MW also.

Pat McKinney --part1_ba.4e423043.2d42eff5_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:47:03 -0600 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Bruce Smith" > BTW, where are those photos of long tenders in Futura lettering? In Classic Power No.8 Pennsylvania M-1 Dual Service Mountains by Bert Pennypacker. NJ International Inc soft-cover publication, 1990. Bob ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C3E1C8.257354D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
----- Original=20 Message -----
From: "Bruce Smith" <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu>
> BTW, where are those photos of long tenders in = Futura=20 lettering?

In Classic Power No.8  Pennsylvania M-1 Dual = Service=20 Mountains by Bert
Pennypacker.  NJ International Inc soft-cover=20 publication, 1990.

Bob
------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C3E1C8.257354D0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:49:49 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR/PULLMAN P30A Troop Sleepers etc.. From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, January 23, 2004, at 03:19 PM, James L. McDaniel wrote: > Why would this be in the VT photos which were donated by Norfolk > Southern from the old N&W files? Could they have been transported > from Pullman-Standard in Chicago to somewhere on the N&W for military > use? > Ft. Eustis (transportation Corps) is off the C&O mainline as was the > Hampton Roads Port of Embarcation. > > I'll send this along to the N&W list and see if they have any thoughts. Jim, I doubt PS had anything to do with these cars ;^) They were converted from X32 and X32A boxcars by the PRR at Altoona. The group of 40 P30A troop sleepers and 4 kitchen cars was then leased to PULMAN and carried PULLMAN lettering. It is quite likely that the P30A troop sleepers traveled over the N&W while under lease to PULLMAN, however, the car in the photo, probably never left the PRR. The photo in the VT Imagebase is a PRR builder's photo (or at least it is marked like one). I can imagine a multitude of reasons why the N&W might have that photo, chief among them that they may have been contemplating conversions themselves. BTW, I answered my own question #1 (were the porthole P30As painted PULLMAN/) They were. See page 26, The Keystone, AUTUMN 1998 (vol 31, no 3) for a photo of #8207, dated 6-43. This is a PRR builders photo, suggesting that these cars were lettered PULLMAN immediately. The only problem is that it is very hard to tell if the roof is black or tuscan (or Pullman green for that matter) Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:58:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bruce, I took the challenge and went thru all my photos again. So you want proof of an M1 Tender with Futura Lettering. Got one. It appears it is a 130P75. Dated 6-24-40 Altoona Pa.. Clearly shows what appears to be a freshly washed M1 6903. Maybe getting ready for the road or a display assignment. That is the only one I can come up with. ....Next Challange Please!. ......Gary original emails.... On Friday, January 23, 2004, at 02:41 PM, Gary Mittner wrote: Bruce, =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0What a strange case of the M1a blues!!!! I have lots and lots of photos of M1 M1a and B's and I just noticed something. I have absolutely nothing from the war years. =A0=A0Policing must have been 100 times worse than 9/11 security. Inspecting the lettering of the tenders, every thing prior to 1942 is 99.9999% short spacing and everthing after 1946 is extended spacing. Somewhere in between was the changeover. That's what I noticed in a brief review of photos last night and this morning! Its really an amazing transition between all short spacing prewar and all long spacing postwar with an almost complete blank in between! But, I do have some pics of M1's from 1941 with what appears to be extended spacing but it is in the Futura style. You want to see a futura M1a, look in the NJ International book Classic Power #8 "M1 Dual Service Mountains" Page 26 shows one, #6743 Dated May 1942. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Getting back to my pics I spotted M1 6881 with Futura extended spacing from Oct 1940. So if that photo is dated properly we can narrow it down to late 1940-early 1941 when the first switch to wider spacing occured, albeit, futura. But there were still many more short spacings on the roster than the newer wider spacing. Still looking for mre data..... So the question is, are there any Futura lettered M1 tenders with short spacing? Regards Bruce Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:20:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bruce, Dang, I got to correct myself. The M1 I spotted with the futura lettering 130P75 has the lettering spaced out to the full length of the side. It isn't the short spacing as you asked about. Actually all my futura lettering photos tend to be wide spacing, even on the B28's C1's etc. There may not be such a thing as short space Futura?....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] X42 mail-storage in Circle Keystone Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:40:08 -0600 Can anyone point me to a photo or lettering diagram for the above car = either on the web or perhaps in a Keystone? There are photos in more = modern schemes, but I can't seem to find the one I need for decal = project. Bob Zoeller ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C3E1D7.F168C7A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Can anyone point me to a photo or = lettering diagram=20 for the above car either on the web or perhaps in a Keystone?  = There are=20 photos in more modern schemes, but I can't seem to find the one I need = for decal=20 project.
 
Bob Zoeller
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C3E1D7.F168C7A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:51:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] X42 mail-storage in Circle Keystone MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bob, Check out page 12 of the Winter 1999 Keystone.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR] Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 19:46:15 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bruce: Here's some information from the PRR drawings. 1) I'll just quote the information that pertains to Class 210F75, except as noted, in the format - tracing number, date issued and what changed, any notes I add in square brackets: C-75515, drawn 6-7-1924, issued 10-11-1924, 2-5-1929 210F75 added to list of classes, 7-20-1929 210F75 for passenger service added to table, 7-29-1929 210F75 for passenger service crossed off, 10-10-1929 210F75 for passenger service added to table, 8-15-1930 210F75 crossed off and shown on C-93265. [PENNSYLVANIA in 8" high letters, coved P and S, spaced out 17'-1" overall. Note that 8-wheel tenders at that time had the lettering spaced out 13'-3", so there were two different "compact" spacings.] C-93265, drawn 8-15-1930, issued 8-22-1930 supersedes C-75515 on account of redesign, 6-13-1932 made obsolete and is superseded by D-99355. [The redesign is pretty subtle - same size, shape and spacing of the lettering. It's positioned the same height from the bottom of the tender, but is now 16'-0" from the rear instead of 16'-6". On the passenger version, the lower 3" wide chocolate stripe is now 4" wide and the 2 1/2" wide black stripe below it is now 1 1/4" wide.] D-99355, drawn 6-13-1932, issued 6-24-1932 supersedes C-93265 made obsolete on account of eliminating striping on passenger tenders, 10-31-1939 210F75 crossed off see tracing B-418156. [Same size, shape and spacing of lettering as before.] B-418156 [Sorry, I don't have any notes on this one, but it's obviously for Futura lettering, according to the next tracing. I'll try to get the notes on my next trip to Lewistown.] B-424250, drawn 7-2-1941, issued 7-28-1941 superseded B-418156 - made obsolete on account of no longer using Futura letters. [This shows a return to the standard 8" high letters, but spaced 32' long. I suspect this was the spacing used on the Futura lettering, but will have to check that, as well as any further notes after the initial issue date.] [In the meantime, some notes from tracings D-419179 (Futura lettering for tenders up to 13,000 gallons) and its replacement D-424257 may be of interest. The Futura lettering was 10" high and came in seven different spacings, depending on class, ranging from 13'-4" to 25'-2" long. D-424257 shows a return to the 8" standard letters, but having the same spacing as the Futura (13'-4" to 25'-2"). On 3-25-1942 the letters "P" and "S" in "PENNSYLVANIA" have had the cove corners removed and are now shown rounded by using suitable radii. I expect that the same was true for the longer tenders.] Bob Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Smith" To: "PRR-Talk" ; Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 12:37 PM Subject: [PRR] Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders | Hello, | | Once again it seems like I am working on a product review ...this | time the Broadway M1A/Bs and in doing my background research I had the | following questions: | | 1) When did the lettering PENNSYLVANIA go from condensed to spread out | on the 210F75 tenders? There are any number of photos from 1937 and | 1938 with condensed lettering and then, post 1945, it is all spread | out. Is the change spelled out on any lettering diagram? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR] Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 20:34:00 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gary and Bruce, Here's some information from the PRR drawings for keystone number plates, again in the format - tracing number, date drawn and issued, what is shown, dates and change and what the changes are, my notes in square brackets: C-83725, drawn and issued 9-1-1927, finish - 2 coats John W. Masury & Son of New York City super-fine coach color cardinal red baked on; outer edge black; front surface of numbers and border to be gilded with gold leaf; entire front surface - 3 coats of baking varnish, baked on. 10-6-1927 finish - 2 coats Impervious Varnish Co. red enamel baked on; front surface of numbers and border and outer edge of rim to be gilded with gold leaf; gilded surfaces - 3 coats of Flood and Conklin baking varnish, baked on. 2-16-1928 finish - the baking varnish was also applied over the enamel. 6-10-1929 - the note referring to number plate being applied only when specially ordered has been removed and classes shown. [The classes include M1 and M1a, with no mention of passenger service only.] C-89623, drawn 9-4-1929, issued 9-10-1929, supersedes C-83275 - made obsolete on account of changing from enamel to lacquer finish - 2 coats approved brand toluidine red lacquer to entire front surface; gold sizing and gold leaf to face of the figures and rim and to the edge of the rim; 2 coats of clear lacquer to all gilded and lacquered surfaces. At and unspecified date the finish was changed to 2 coats Class Y toluidine red lacquer to entire front surface; apply gold leaf using coach Japan tinted with chrome yellow to the face of the figures and rim and to the edge of the rim; 2 coats of Class Z clear lacquer to all gilded and lacquered surfaces. 4-12-1940 - made obsolete and is superseded by C-419181. 7-21-1941 - brought back to standard and supersedes C-419181 - made obsolete on account of no longer using Futura numerals. [Once again the classes include M1 and M1a, with no mention of passenger service only. It's interesting to note that the last revision date on the drawing I saw was 4-2-1954, but there was no mention of changing the gold leaf to buff (which most other lettering drawings show as happening on 10-13-1952). Of course, the use of gold leaf could have been ended by letter of instruction, without appearing on the drawing.] Bob Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" To: "Bruce Smith" Cc: "PRR-Talk" ; Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders | Bruce, | | Your question #2. Answer, according to the Painting Instructions of | 1929, Gold Leaf was used onl all Keystone Number Plates, including those | M1 and M1a locomotives in Freight service. | | Need to research your other questions more closely....Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ARRJERRY@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 20:53:48 EST Subject: [PRR] BLI M1's Hi All, Has anyone had experience with the BLI M1's yet. I keep hearing they are out but no reports on how they look, run, sound, pull. Thanks, Jerry --part1_71.39fd5192.2d432a2c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Hi All,
Has anyone had experience with the BLI M1's yet. I keep hearing they are out= but no reports on how they look, run, sound, pull.
Thanks,
        Jerry --part1_71.39fd5192.2d432a2c_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR] Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 20:55:47 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bruce, The standard PRR locomotive and tender lettering drawings I have looked at simply define the numerals and letters to be gold or gold leaf; the tender striping to be chocolate, gold and white; and the locomotive striping to be gold, crimson, and white. They state that letters and numerals for freight or shifting locomotives are to be buff and all striping is to be omitted. On 6-13-1932 all striping was deleted from the tender lettering drawings and the striping on passenger locomotives was reduced to a simple border line around the number on the cab. On 4-25-1933 the border line was crossed off and no longer applied. On 10-13-1952 the use of gold leaf was ended. There was never any indication of classes on the locomotive lettering drawings. I asume this meant that M1 and M1a locomotives that had passenger pilots (after front steps became standard for road freight locomotives) were assigned to passenger service and would have had gold leaf lettering, at least up through October 1952. Bob Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Smith" To: "PRR-Talk" ; Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 12:37 PM Subject: [PRR] Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders | Hello, | | Once again it seems like I am working on a product review ...this | time the Broadway M1A/Bs and in doing my background research I had the | following questions: | | 1) When did the lettering PENNSYLVANIA go from condensed to spread out | on the 210F75 tenders? There are any number of photos from 1937 and | 1938 with condensed lettering and then, post 1945, it is all spread | out. Is the change spelled out on any lettering diagram? | | 2) I assume that the freight only M1As and M1Bs had buff lettering, | although they had keystones. Is this correct and were the keystone | borders and numbers gold leaf, or buff? | | 3) Was the lettering/numbers on the passenger assigned M1s and M1As | gold leaf? | | Happy Rails | Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 21:02:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Bob, Great info on the lettering and Keystones. Photo evidence pretty much had it narrowed down to late 1941-42 when the long spacing occured. Your info pin pointed it down perfectly. Boy could you imagine the job in the Altoona Foundry and I suppose later the Paint Shop, painting and baking Keystones. I would have enjoyed that Job. The end result of your work being advertised on the front of the PRR's Best.....Thanks again, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: Prr-Talk@dsop.com From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI M1's Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 21:08:51 -0500 To: ARRJERRY@aol.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Jan 23, 2004, at 8:53 PM, ARRJERRY@aol.com wrote: > Hi All, > Has anyone had experience with the BLI M1's yet. I keep hearing they=20= > are out but no reports on how they look, run, sound, pull. > Thanks, > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Jerry Jerry: They are indeed out. MS received its shipment on Wednesday.=20 Despite purchasing one for demo use, I haven't even had an opportunity=20= to open the box yet... and no layout to run it on! May have a chance=20 tomorrow evening. About a third of MS's customer's orders have been=20 shipped, so you'll start hearing reports from them by Monday or=20 Tuesday. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 22:39:15 -0500 From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Subject: [PRR] Walthers 4-4-2 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List- Can anyone attest to the accuracy of the Walthers 4-4-2 for PRR. Model numbers; 932-6701 TTG 932-6704 FOM 932-6707 Late scheme TIA Regards, Eddie ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Robert Kunkle" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/23/04 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 22:41:59 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN Mail 8.00.0022.1400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V8.00.0022.1400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jan 2004 03:42:00.0335 (UTC) FILETIME=[05FC11F0:01C3E22C] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Know that it is now PRR, but a couple of other standing coaling towers. GTW (CN) has a tower in Lansing, MI that is easily seen and photographed. At least a few years ago, the opposition still had a tower standing on their line between Battle Creek and Kalamazoo Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "PRR-Talk" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 5:25 PM Subject: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/23/04 PRR-Talk Digest - Friday, January 23, 2004 Re: [PRR] PRR/PULLMAN P30A Troop Sleepers etc. by "Bob Johnson" Re: [PRR] PRR/PULLMAN P30A Troop Sleepers etc.. by Re: [PRR] Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders by "Bob Zoeller" Re: [PRR] PRR/PULLMAN P30A Troop Sleepers etc.. by "Bruce Smith" Re: [PRR] Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders by "Bruce Smith" Weekly Photo Sharing Forum Started by "Jerry Britton" Timonium Show Tomorrow by "Jerry Britton" Re: [PRR] Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders by "Gary Mittner" RE: [PRR] MoW Paint Color and "S" Cars by "Al Buchan" Re: [PRR] PRR/PULLMAN P30A Troop Sleepers etc.. by "James L. McDaniel" Re: [PRR] Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders by "Bruce Smith" Re: [PRR] Re : Coaling towers by Re: [PRR] MoW Paint Color and "S" Cars by Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders by "Bob Zoeller" Re: [PRR] PRR/PULLMAN P30A Troop Sleepers etc.. by "Bruce Smith" Re: [PRR] Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders by "Gary Mittner" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR/PULLMAN P30A Troop Sleepers etc. From: "Bob Johnson" Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:46:51 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_013D_01C3E1B7.5AA91100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Ben and list: The article was in the Autumn 1998 Keystone; photos on page 38. The = side view is too small to show it, but the locations of the windows were = clearly visible on the outside. I still have the original photos, including a close-up of the left portion of the side. All four window locations are visible on the outside, denoted by thin circular weld lines and the = circular array of rivets that held the window frames in place. Bob Johnson ----- Original Message -----=20 From: To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 12:53 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR/PULLMAN P30A Troop Sleepers etc.. | Dennis Rockwell wrote: | I've wondered if these were converted back to boxcars, and | if the sides were replaced, or if the portholes were simply | plated over, like the ACF troop sleepers were. | | They were converted back to boxcars. The Keystone article on these = cars | (Summer 2001 IIRC) had interior and exterior photos of one of these = cars | taken during the 1960s, and you can clearly see where the portholes = were | plated over on the interior of the car. However, you couldn't tell = that the | car had been a war emergncy car from the exterior photo! | | | Ben Hom ------=_NextPart_000_013D_01C3E1B7.5AA91100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Ben and list:

The article was = in the=20 Autumn 1998 Keystone; photos on page 38.  The side
view is too = small to=20 show it, but the locations of the windows were clearly
visible on the = outside.  I still have the original photos, including a
close-up = of the=20 left portion of the side.  All four window locations are
visible = on the=20 outside, denoted by thin circular weld lines and the circular
array = of rivets=20 that held the window frames in place.

Bob Johnson

----- = Original=20 Message -----
From: <b.hom@att.net>
To: "PRR-Talk" = <Prr-Talk@dsop.com>
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: = [PRR]=20 PRR/PULLMAN P30A Troop Sleepers etc..


| Dennis Rockwell = wrote:
|=20 I've wondered if these were converted back to boxcars, and
| if the = sides=20 were replaced, or if the portholes were simply
| plated over, like = the ACF=20 troop sleepers were.
|
| They were converted back to = boxcars.  The=20 Keystone article on these cars
| (Summer 2001 IIRC) had interior and = exterior=20 photos of one of these cars
| taken during the 1960s, and you can = clearly see=20 where the portholes were
| plated over on the interior of the = car. =20 However, you couldn't tell that
the
| car had been a war emergncy = car from=20 the exterior photo!
|
|
| Ben = Hom
------=_NextPart_000_013D_01C3E1B7.5AA91100-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR/PULLMAN P30A Troop Sleepers etc.. From: Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:50:12 +0000 Ben and list: The article was in the Autumn 1998 Keystone; photos on page 38. The side view is too small to show it, but the locations of the windows were clearly visible on the outside. I still have the original photos, including a close-up of the left portion of the side. All four window locations are visible on the outside, denoted by thin circular weld lines and the circular array of rivets that held the window frames in place. Bob Johnson ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders From: "Bob Zoeller" Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:30:30 -0600 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Smith" > 1) When did the lettering PENNSYLVANIA go from condensed to spread out > on the 210F75 tenders? There are any number of photos from 1937 and > 1938 with condensed lettering and then, post 1945, it is all spread > out. Is the change spelled out on any lettering diagram? Don't remember seeing any lettering charts in the time period in my library. However,to complicate matters, Bruce, several 1941 and 1942 photos show extended lettering, but Futura! Or at least some sans serif face. Bob Zoeller ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR/PULLMAN P30A Troop Sleepers etc.. From: "Bruce Smith" Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:05:31 -0600 On Friday, January 23, 2004, at 10:35 AM, Dennis Rockwell wrote: > > There's a photo in the VT imagebase of converted > round-roof with the number 6890; it's got portholes and > rectangular upper windows (vents? they're pretty small). > > The roof is pretty clearly black. > > http://imagebase.lib.vt.edu/view_record.php?URN=ns2624 Wow, Neat photo...wonder what its doing in the N&W files? Of note, this is not a P30A, but rather it appears to be the prototype "command car" (only one was ever built). Looking closely at the bottom of the photo, it is labeled, "P54" and "11-27-42". I think that the car number is erroneously reported by the VT Imagebase as 6890. It is very difficult to see the digits, but the Keystone shows a photo of 6899, the command car, with PRR's label indicating "P54". Also telling is the blanked window on the rightmost panel. These are only present on #6899 and the P78 coaches, AFAIK. Since the P78s also had a window in the leftmost panel, this is not a P78. Finally, if the date were later, the fact that the car rides on Barrett-Whitehead (2D-F22C tucks) not Allied Full Cushion (2D-F23) trucks would be important. It being November 1942, this is not that important as the decision to require the AFC trucks on the P30A for interchange was not made until Feb 10, 1943. #6899 was converted to a P78A suburban coach in May, 1943. The bottom line is that the roof of 6899 is clearly black, making it likely that the other cars were painted in a similar fashion (matching PRR's painting instructions for passenger cars). Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders From: "Bruce Smith" Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:09:03 -0600 On Friday, January 23, 2004, at 01:30 PM, Bob Zoeller wrote: > Don't remember seeing any lettering charts in the time period in my > library. > However,to complicate matters, Bruce, several 1941 and 1942 photos show > extended lettering, but Futura! Or at least some sans serif face. > > Bob Zoeller Bob, I'm not sure that actually complicates matters . My thought process was that the change was likely to have been made at the same time the style of lettering changed, which left me with the choice of when it went to Futura or when it changed back. BTW, where are those photos of long tenders in Futura lettering? Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Weekly Photo Sharing Forum Started From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:32:23 -0500 Please share your PRR photos (models and proto) interactively on our new weekly event. Week Two has been kicked off at http://forum.pennsyrr.com:8010/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=18 . ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Timonium Show Tomorrow From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:39:22 -0500 Anyone going to the Timonium show tomorrow? I should be there mid-morning with my young apprentice (Andrew, 6). Will be around until mid-afternoon. Will likely spend a good bit of time near the N modular layout as I know some of their operators from online. They're calling for snow on Sunday, so tomorrow is the day to go... ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders From: "Gary Mittner" Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:41:23 -0500 (EST) Bruce, What a strange case of the M1a blues!!!! I have lots and lots of photos of M1 M1a and B's and I just noticed something. I have absolutely nothing from the war years. Policing must have been 100 times worse than 9/11 security. Inspecting the lettering of the tenders, every thing prior to 1942 is 99.9999% short spacing and everthing after 1946 is extended spacing. Somewhere in between was the changeover. But, I do have some pics of M1's from 1941 with what appears to be extended spacing but it is in the Futura style. You want to see a futura M1a, look in the NJ International book Classic Power #8 "M1 Dual Service Mountains" Page 26 shows one, #6743 Dated May 1942. Getting back to my pics I spotted M1 6881 with Futura extended spacing from Oct 1940. So if that photo is dated properly we can narrow it down to late 1940-early 1941 when the first switch to wider spacing occured, albeit, futura. But there were still many more short spacings on the roster than the newer wider spacing. Still looking for mre data.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: [PRR] MoW Paint Color and "S" Cars From: "Al Buchan" Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:15:47 -0500 1. The generalization of PRR work equipment as MW cars is a typical railfan misnomer. The Maintenance of Way department (more appropriately referred to as MW - not MOW) was but one of the several organizations that used work equipment. Many pieces of work equipment were used by the Mechanical Department (wreck trains), the C&S Department, the B&B department, the ET department (wire trains) and the Material and Stores Department (S cars). So it is more proper to refer to this pool of company service equipment as work equipment not MW equipment. 2. The "S" cars were under the control of the Material and Stores Department and used for the distribution of company material through out the system. 3. Re If you model before 1953 only gray cars are appropriate. Add to that statement and after 1940, as before then work equipment was FCC. So prior to 1940 work equipment was FCC, 1941-1953 existing work equipment was FCC phasing into gray, and after 1953 existing work equipment was gray phasing into yellow. It's reasonable to assume that revenue equipment being converted to work equipment was painted the standard color of the time, except for the "S" car fleet, which by and large remained FCC. As I've said many times use photos to make sure of your accuracy for any specific model. 4. Re Steve Bowyer's comment - "Remember, that M.O.W. cars were seldom outshopped or repainted, so those cars that were painted gray most likely stayed gray for the rest of their lives." The color of work equipment from gray to yellow took place in 1953. By that time most likely all of the XL conversions to work equipment had occurred and of course would have been painted gray. We see so many pieces of work equipment (including the XL) that had been converted from revenue equipment prior to 1953 painted yellow there obviously was an effort to repaint this equipment, post 1953. I think the quoted statement above, that cars "most likely stayed gray for the rest of their lives" is not correct. 5. With regard to the X-29 on page 113 of the "PRR Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment Vol. 3" (Ian S. Fischer). This picture was taken in 1975 showing how long they lasted, yet the car is gray indicating is what placed in the work fleet prior to 1953. This car also has the "S" added, indicating it was moved to the "Service" fleet in 1960 or later. Be very, very careful in using any post merger pictures to justify a pre merger condition. Given the cars gray color it was most likely placed in work equipment status before 1953. However, the yellow "S," sans box, was not standard marking (not that, that means anything) and to me, smacks of a PC application. Although I might not be correct in this particular case. If you ever see the photo of the other ("A") end of this car at this same location the coupler is missing, which leads me to believe this car may have been a stationary sand supply car at this location. Al ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR/PULLMAN P30A Troop Sleepers etc.. From: "James L. McDaniel" Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:19:24 -0500 Why would this be in the VT photos which were donated by Norfolk Southern from the old N&W files? Could they have been transported from Pullman-Standard in Chicago to somewhere on the N&W for military use? Ft. Eustis (transportation Corps) is off the C&O mainline as was the Hampton Roads Port of Embarcation. I'll send this along to the N&W list and see if they have any thoughts. Jim McDaniel, Delmarva, VT Class of '72 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders From: "Bruce Smith" Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:17:44 -0600 On Friday, January 23, 2004, at 02:41 PM, Gary Mittner wrote: > Bruce, > > What a strange case of the M1a blues!!!! I have lots and lots of > photos of M1 M1a and B's and I just noticed something. I have > absolutely > nothing from the war years. > Policing must have been 100 times worse than > 9/11 security. Inspecting the lettering of the tenders, every thing > prior to 1942 is 99.9999% short spacing and everthing after 1946 is > extended spacing. Somewhere in between was the changeover. That's what I noticed in a brief review of photos last night and this morning! Its really an amazing transition between all short spacing prewar and all long spacing postwar with an almost complete blank in between! > But, I do > have some pics of M1's from 1941 with what appears to be extended > spacing but it is in the Futura style. You want to see a futura M1a, > look in the NJ International book Classic Power #8 "M1 Dual Service > Mountains" Page 26 shows one, #6743 Dated May 1942. > > Getting back to my pics I spotted M1 6881 with Futura extended > spacing from Oct 1940. So if that photo is dated properly we can > narrow > it down to late 1940-early 1941 when the first switch to wider spacing > occured, albeit, futura. But there were still many more short spacings > on the roster than the newer wider spacing. Still looking for mre > data..... So the question is, are there any Futura lettered M1 tenders with short spacing? Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Re : Coaling towers From: Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:35:08 EST --part1_3d.39e21081.2d42ed8c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" When Conrail decided to take down the coaling tower in Enola the contractor they hired found out why a number of the WW 2 era built towers were still standing. During that period rebar was a war material and unavailable. Any heavy concrete rr construction during that period ended up with old small section rail instead of rebar. So you had a 75 lb. per yard rebar inside all that concrete. Most B&B people who had been around long enough knew this and figured it would take too much effort to demolish the structures. The one at Truxall was the one which came straight down on the tracks instead of toppling over like the demolision contractor thought. This was a WW2 era tower. ----------------Ken McCorry --part1_3d.39e21081.2d42ed8c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" When Conrail=20= decided to take down the coaling tower in Enola the contractor they hired fo= und out why a number of the WW 2 era built towers were still standing. Durin= g that period rebar was a war material and unavailable. Any heavy concrete r= r construction during that period ended up with old small section rail inste= ad of rebar. So you had a 75 lb. per yard rebar inside all that concrete. Mo= st B&B people who had been around long enough knew this and figured it w= ould take too much effort to demolish the structures. The one at Truxall was= the one which came straight down on the tracks instead of toppling over lik= e the demolision contractor thought. This was a WW2 era tower. -------------= ---Ken McCorry=20

--part1_3d.39e21081.2d42ed8c_boundary-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] MoW Paint Color and "S" Cars From: Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:45:25 EST --part1_ba.4e423043.2d42eff5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Al, I recall in the late 1960's getting into the 250 ton steam wreck derrick when the M. of E. person was checking the boiler one day and asking about the wreck derricks having MW stenciled on them . He told me that they showed them on the MW Equpiment register but M.of E. people operated them. I thought that the B&B dept came under the Engineering dept and would be marked MW also. Pat McKinney --part1_ba.4e423043.2d42eff5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Al,
     I recall in the late 1960's getting into the 250 to= n steam wreck derrick when the M. of E. person was checking the boiler one d= ay and asking about the wreck derricks having MW stenciled on them . He told= me that they showed them on the MW Equpiment register but M.of E. people op= erated them.
   I thought that the B&B dept came under the Engineering dept= and would be marked MW also.

Pat McKinney --part1_ba.4e423043.2d42eff5_boundary-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders From: "Bob Zoeller" Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:47:03 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C3E1C8.257354D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Bruce Smith" > BTW, where are those photos of long tenders in Futura lettering? In Classic Power No.8 Pennsylvania M-1 Dual Service Mountains by Bert Pennypacker. NJ International Inc soft-cover publication, 1990. Bob ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C3E1C8.257354D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
----- Original=20 Message -----
From: "Bruce Smith" <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu>
> BTW, where are those photos of long tenders in = Futura=20 lettering?

In Classic Power No.8  Pennsylvania M-1 Dual = Service=20 Mountains by Bert
Pennypacker.  NJ International Inc soft-cover=20 publication, 1990.

Bob
------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C3E1C8.257354D0-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR/PULLMAN P30A Troop Sleepers etc.. From: "Bruce Smith" Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:49:49 -0600 On Friday, January 23, 2004, at 03:19 PM, James L. McDaniel wrote: > Why would this be in the VT photos which were donated by Norfolk > Southern from the old N&W files? Could they have been transported > from Pullman-Standard in Chicago to somewhere on the N&W for military > use? > Ft. Eustis (transportation Corps) is off the C&O mainline as was the > Hampton Roads Port of Embarcation. > > I'll send this along to the N&W list and see if they have any thoughts. Jim, I doubt PS had anything to do with these cars ;^) They were converted from X32 and X32A boxcars by the PRR at Altoona. The group of 40 P30A troop sleepers and 4 kitchen cars was then leased to PULMAN and carried PULLMAN lettering. It is quite likely that the P30A troop sleepers traveled over the N&W while under lease to PULLMAN, however, the car in the photo, probably never left the PRR. The photo in the VT Imagebase is a PRR builder's photo (or at least it is marked like one). I can imagine a multitude of reasons why the N&W might have that photo, chief among them that they may have been contemplating conversions themselves. BTW, I answered my own question #1 (were the porthole P30As painted PULLMAN/) They were. See page 26, The Keystone, AUTUMN 1998 (vol 31, no 3) for a photo of #8207, dated 6-43. This is a PRR builders photo, suggesting that these cars were lettered PULLMAN immediately. The only problem is that it is very hard to tell if the roof is black or tuscan (or Pullman green for that matter) Happy Rails Bruce ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Lettering on M1A/Bs and 210P/F75 tenders From: "Gary Mittner" Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:58:44 -0500 (EST) Bruce, I took the challenge and went thru all my photos again. So you want proof of an M1 Tender with Futura Lettering. Got one. It appears it is a 130P75. Dated 6-24-40 Altoona Pa.. Clearly shows what appears to be a freshly washed M1 6903. Maybe getting ready for the road or a display assignment. That is the only one I can come up with. ....Next Challange Please!. ......Gary original emails.... On Friday, January 23, 2004, at 02:41 PM, Gary Mittner wrote: Bruce, What a strange case of the M1a blues!!!! I have lots and lots of photos of M1 M1a and B's and I just noticed something. I have absolutely nothing from the war years. Policing must have been 100 times worse than 9/11 security. Inspecting the lettering of the tenders, every thing prior to 1942 is 99.9999% short spacing and everthing after 1946 is extended spacing. Somewhere in between was the changeover. That's what I noticed in a brief review of photos last night and this morning! Its really an amazing transition between all short spacing prewar and all long spacing postwar with an almost complete blank in between! But, I do have some pics of M1's from 1941 with what appears to be extended spacing but it is in the Futura style. You want to see a futura M1a, look in the NJ International book Classic Power #8 "M1 Dual Service Mountains" Page 26 shows one, #6743 Dated May 1942. Getting back to my pics I spotted M1 6881 with Futura extended spacing from Oct 1940. So if that photo is dated properly we can narrow it down to late 1940-early 1941 when the first switch to wider spacing occured, albeit, futura. But there were still many more short spacings on the roster than the newer wider spacing. Still looking for mre data..... So the question is, are there any Futura lettered M1 tenders with short spacing? Regards Bruce Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of PRR-Talk Digest ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] X42 mail-storage in Circle Keystone Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 00:02:48 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" > Bob, > > Check out page 12 of the Winter 1999 Keystone.....Gary Thanks, Gary, just what I was looking for. Bob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: [PRR] PRR Trains 580, 581 Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 10:22:18 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I am trying to determine what class of sleeper was assigned to trains 580, 581. At one time there was a New York to Erie Sleeper. Pictures on pages 54, 55, in Pennsy Diesel Years volume 3 shows the train in 1964. I'm more interested in 1957. Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR Talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Trains 580, 581 Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:28:44 -0500 To: "Brian J Carlson" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Jan 24, 2004, at 10:22 AM, Brian J Carlson wrote: > I am trying to determine what class of sleeper was assigned to trains > 580, > 581. At one time there was a New York to Erie Sleeper. Pictures on > pages > 54, 55, in Pennsy Diesel Years volume 3 shows the train in 1964. I'm > more > interested in 1957. As of 1954, train 575, the Dominion Express / Northern Express, carried a 10-3 (heavyweight) for trainsfer to train 581 at Emporium. It also transferred a cafe coach (class unknown) and a reclining seat coach (class unknown) from train 615 at Harrisburg. Going the other direction, train 574, the Dominion Express / Southern Express, carried the same cars south/east, with the addition of an 8-1-2 (heavyweight) from Emporium. If I recall, there is a 1957 consist book on Rob's site. > > Brian J Carlson > Cheektowaga NY > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:32:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] N5c Restoration update MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, Just a note on how the restoration is going on x-PRR N5c 477974. Slow, but moving forward. The latest can be seen and read about here: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html The entire floor has now been removed as well as the bottom of each locker who's metal was also rotted away by years of moisture. Soon the work to replace everything we removed will begin. Hopefully by mid summer we can have the steel floor, lockers and car sides replaced. Then work on the interior walls and wood floor. Lots of work ahead but it should pay off in the long run. It has been to cold in and out of the shop to do any work the past few saturdays. Last week we stayed warm sitting in the restored PRR N8 with the stove roaring. Nice and toasty! Today I have a question on the porches of an as built N5c. We know it was wood decked originally. Would this have been tounge and groove oak, maple? We want to replace the steel grate type presently applied. Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Breon" Subject: [PRR] BLI PRR J1 Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 17:27:08 -0500 Folks, I got a look at the new Broadway Limited Imports HO scale PRR J1 2-10-4 = today at Timonium. Looks every bit as good as the recent T1 and M1a/b = models. While my pix don't clearly show it, I feel the models are a = little less green that the T1s and the oxide color on the tender deck is = definitely less red. BLI representative told me the would probably not = be shipping these much before June of this year. Enjoy the pix at: http://photos8.msn.com/myfiles/folderview.aspx?Folder=3D4gPozhciq6ZTdypEP= FXEQnBp29SIiijgVOa07t5FV*s%24 Jerry Breon Birdsboro, PA ------=_NextPart_000_0547_01C3E29F.4B1D6180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Folks,
I got a look at the new Broadway Limited Imports HO scale PRR J1 = 2-10-4=20 today at Timonium. Looks every bit as good as the recent T1 and M1a/b = models.=20 While my pix don't clearly show it, I feel the models are a little less = green=20 that the T1s and the oxide color on the tender deck is definitely less = red. BLI=20 representative told me the would probably not be shipping these much = before June=20 of this year. Enjoy the pix at:
http://photos8.msn.com/myfiles/fol= derview.aspx?Folder=3D4gPozhciq6ZTdypEPFXEQnBp29SIiijgVOa07t5FV*s%24<= /DIV>
Jerry Breon
Birdsboro, PA
------=_NextPart_000_0547_01C3E29F.4B1D6180-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Breon" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI PRR J1 Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 19:18:41 -0500 Please accept my apologies for not realizing that my original link for = the J1 photos was to a MSN "Members Only" site. Gary Mittner is working = on posting them to one of his sites. Thanks for your patience. Jerry Breon Birdsboro, PA ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jerry Breon=20 To: PRR-talk ; PRR Modeling=20 Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 5:27 PM Subject: [PRR] BLI PRR J1 Folks, I got a look at the new Broadway Limited Imports HO scale PRR J1 = 2-10-4 today at Timonium. Looks every bit as good as the recent T1 and = M1a/b models. While my pix don't clearly show it, I feel the models are = a little less green that the T1s and the oxide color on the tender deck = is definitely less red. BLI representative told me the would probably = not be shipping these much before June of this year. Enjoy the pix at: = http://photos8.msn.com/myfiles/folderview.aspx?Folder=3D4gPozhciq6ZTdypEP= FXEQnBp29SIiijgVOa07t5FV*s%24 Jerry Breon Birdsboro, PA ------=_NextPart_000_0543_01C3E2AE.E0A67CA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Please accept my apologies for not realizing that my original = link for=20 the J1 photos was to a MSN "Members Only" site. Gary Mittner is working = on=20 posting them to one of his sites. Thanks for your patience.
Jerry Breon
Birdsboro, PA
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry Breon
To: PRR-talk ; PRR Modeling
Sent: Saturday, January 24, = 2004 5:27=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] BLI PRR J1

Folks,
I got a look at the new Broadway Limited Imports HO scale PRR J1 = 2-10-4=20 today at Timonium. Looks every bit as good as the recent T1 and M1a/b = models.=20 While my pix don't clearly show it, I feel the models are a little = less green=20 that the T1s and the oxide color on the tender deck is definitely less = red.=20 BLI representative told me the would probably not be shipping these = much=20 before June of this year. Enjoy the pix at:
http://photos8.msn.com/myfiles/fol= derview.aspx?Folder=3D4gPozhciq6ZTdypEPFXEQnBp29SIiijgVOa07t5FV*s%24<= /DIV>
Jerry Breon
Birdsboro, PA
------=_NextPart_000_0543_01C3E2AE.E0A67CA0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 19:16:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI PRR J1 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Lists, Jerry wanted me to make a quick webpage showing hs photos of the new BLI J1 since many can not view it on his member only and non browser freindly page he originally posted them on. The pics can be viewed here: http://community-2.webtv.net/mittner/PRRJ1byBLI/ Quick internet viewing of the preproduction sample already shows there needs to be some corrections. I spotted the Cab Roof and the Dog House Roof color. Both should not be painted in those colors. Plain DGLE here folks. Not sure where BLI got that idea. I am sure I will get a report from someone who inspected the model first hand today at the show. And I am sure he already mentioned these little booboos along with anything else noticed while seeing it in person. We will try to get BLI to to any corrections needed to get this model right. Hope they listen....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: WAMMP236@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 19:31:52 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Trains 580, 581 The train also carried the pre war 10 roomette 5 double bedroom lightweights also. -------------------------------1074990712 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" The train also carried the pre war 10 roomette 5 double bedroom lightweig= hts also. -------------------------------1074990712-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 19:58:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI PRR J1 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hello List.... I was also at the Timonium Show today and notice the red cab roof and the red roff on the dog house. Are you kidding me??!!! But I'm not surprised at Broadway Limited Imports. This is the same company that announced a Tuscan Red Penn Central GG1 in their second run of the motors. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Breon" Subject: Re: [PRR-Modeling] Re: [PRR] BLI PRR J1 Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 20:11:53 -0500 Let's not loose sight of the fact that the photos are of a = pre-production sample and not necessarily an indication of exactly how = the finished model will appear. I think BLI has done an excellent job of = listening to comments about and making adjustments to their previous = offerings.=20 Jerry Breon Birdsboro, PA ----- Original Message -----=20 From: zootowerprr@webtv.net=20 To: Gary Mittner=20 Cc: Jerry Breon ; PRR-talk ; PRR Modeling=20 Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 7:58 PM Subject: [PRR-Modeling] Re: [PRR] BLI PRR J1 Hello List.... I was also at the Timonium Show today and notice the = red cab roof and the red roff on the dog house. Are you kidding me??!!! But I'm not surprised at Broadway Limited Imports. This is the same company that announced a Tuscan Red Penn Central GG1 in their second run of the motors. Dave Hopson ------=_NextPart_000_0542_01C3E2B6.4F750460 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Let's not loose sight of the fact that the photos are of a = pre-production=20 sample and not necessarily an indication of exactly how the = finished model=20 will appear. I think BLI has done an excellent job of listening to = comments=20 about and making adjustments to their previous offerings.
Jerry Breon
Birdsboro, PA
----- Original Message -----
From: zootowerprr@webtv.net
To: Gary Mittner
Cc: Jerry=20 Breon ; PRR-talk ; PRR    &= nbsp;Modeling=20
Sent: Saturday, January 24, = 2004 7:58=20 PM
Subject: [PRR-Modeling] Re: = [PRR] BLI PRR=20 J1

Hello=20 = List....

         &nb= sp;    =20 I was also at the Timonium Show today and notice the red
cab roof = and the=20 red roff on the dog house. Are you kidding=20 = me??!!!
          &n= bsp;   =20 But I'm not surprised at Broadway Limited Imports. This
is the same = company=20 that announced a Tuscan Red Penn Central GG1 in
their second run of = the=20 motors.

  Dave Hopson
------=_NextPart_000_0542_01C3E2B6.4F750460-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR-Modeling] Re: [PRR] BLI PRR J1 Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 20:59:29 -0600 Amen. Speaking as one of many who bent their ear to offer the K7a = without sound in multiple packs. And though my M1a is en route, so I = can't comment, I am certainly pleased with the T1. Henny Pennies of the = World, forget it. They may not produce Key Imports level detail and they = may not quite reach Soundtraxx in their sound flexibility, but my god, = what value for the money! Spent the day playing with my T1 learning how to play with the whistle = effects. And backing it down a 60 foot curving 2.5% grade at about 5 = mph through No. 6 switches to hook onto a train. Awesome. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jerry Breon=20 I think BLI has done an excellent job of listening to comments about = and making adjustments to their previous offerings.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C3E2BC.F5899770 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Amen.  Speaking as one of many who bent = their ear to=20 offer the K7a without sound in multiple packs.  And though my M1a = is en=20 route, so I can't comment, I am certainly pleased with the T1.  = Henny=20 Pennies of the World, forget it. They may not produce Key Imports level = detail=20 and they may not quite reach Soundtraxx in their sound flexibility, but = my god,=20 what value for the money!
 
Spent the day playing with my T1 learning how to = play with=20 the whistle effects.  And backing it down a 60 foot curving 2.5% = grade at=20 about 5 mph through No. 6 switches to hook onto a train. =20 Awesome.
 
Bob Zoeller
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Jerry = Breon
I think BLI has done an excellent job = of=20 listening to comments about and making adjustments to their previous=20 offerings.
 
------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C3E2BC.F5899770-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Trains 580, 581 Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 22:46:50 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry thanks for the heads up on the consist book, didn't know it was there on Rob's site. Now I have another problem. What to do with the R50b's I have since they are not listed in the consist for 580/581. Which leads me to my next question. would it be unrealistic to throw an R50 or two in the mix. How set in stone are these consists? I realize it's my railroad and I could do what I want but I'm trying to be faithful to the prototype. brian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry @ Pennsy" To: "Brian J Carlson" Cc: "PRR Talk" Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 2:28 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Trains 580, 581 > On Jan 24, 2004, at 10:22 AM, Brian J Carlson wrote: > > > I am trying to determine what class of sleeper was assigned to trains > > 580, > > 581. At one time there was a New York to Erie Sleeper. Pictures on > > pages > > 54, 55, in Pennsy Diesel Years volume 3 shows the train in 1964. I'm > > more > > interested in 1957. > > As of 1954, train 575, the Dominion Express / Northern Express, carried > a 10-3 (heavyweight) for trainsfer to train 581 at Emporium. It also > transferred a cafe coach (class unknown) and a reclining seat coach > (class unknown) from train 615 at Harrisburg. > > Going the other direction, train 574, the Dominion Express / Southern > Express, carried the same cars south/east, with the addition of an > 8-1-2 (heavyweight) from Emporium. > > If I recall, there is a 1957 consist book on Rob's site. > > > > > Brian J Carlson > > Cheektowaga NY > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 22:58:52 EST Subject: [PRR] M-1 road test Picked up my M-1's at the Timonium show from Jerry. Put two thru their paces tonight on the Buffalo line. Put the 6775 and 6704 in service at Norry. Only programming I did was assign the long address's didn't change anything else. The DGLE is a bit too green for me but I think some weathering will cure that problem. Side rods /valve gear needs to be dirtied up as do the lead truck wheels. Sounds are nice a bit loud and I will adjust later but now for some fun. Couple the 6775 to 40- 100 ton Bowser PPLX hoppers with a CR brown N-5c attached. These cars are equipped with Intermountain Wheelsets and are really free rolling. Time to head north. The rr is water level until you pass Lock Haven where the first grade of any signicance is achieved. It's a 1% from there to Renovo thru the curves at Hyner. The M handled the 40 car train with ease on the 1%. Pulled into Renovo and decided to see how far up the Keating grade it would go. The grade starts at the west end of Renovo at 2.6%. The 40 car train would normally rate at least 2 powered 6 axles to this point so the M is equal to this point. The train made it about 1/4 up the 2.6% grade before it slipped and stopped. Tried to restart the train a few times but it was evident that the tonnage was too much. Pulled the 6704 out of the Renovo engine terminal and placed it on the rear of train. With much whistling from the one engineer the 2 M's started the train with ease. Got rolling at a nice pace including the short stretch of 3% near the summit. We went over the top of Keating Summit at about 25 mph with the engines going in and out of sych as they rolled along.As the train neared the summit the 3% did drag the speed down and the steadily slower exhausts were really great to hear. Over Keating summit I cut the 6704 off on the fly and the 6775 brought the 40 hoppers down the other side of Keating smoothly with no run in problems . The 6775 handled the train with ease to my Delevan staging 39 miles from Buffalo. This includes a short stretch of 2% just west of Eldred to Portville. I turned both engines and consisted them for the return trip with both on the head end. They walked right up the 3% eb ruling grade again with no problem and completed their run back to Norry. I am really impressed with the running quality, pulling power and the sound is a blast to play with. Play value is way up on the scale. Time to get the turntable/roundhouse in Harrisburg so I'll have a home for these in the future 56 era. I think I'll try the 70 car Stewart ore train tommorrow. It normally requires 5 powered units to get it over Keating Summit. I'll let you know how it turns out. ---Having fun in Downingtown ----------------------- Ken McCorry --part1_15.211450c7.2d4498fc_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Picked up my=20= M-1's at the Timonium show from Jerry. Put two thru their paces tonight on t= he Buffalo line. Put the 6775 and 6704 in service at Norry. Only programming= I did was assign the long address's didn't change anything else. The DGLE i= s a bit too green for me but I think some weathering will cure that problem.= Side rods /valve gear needs to be dirtied up as do the lead truck wheels. S= ounds are nice a bit loud and I will adjust later but now for some fun. Coup= le the 6775 to 40- 100 ton Bowser PPLX hoppers with a CR brown N-5c attached= . These cars are equipped with Intermountain Wheelsets and are really free r= olling. Time to head north. The rr is water level until you pass Lock Haven=20= where the first grade of any signicance is achieved. It's a 1% from there to= Renovo thru the curves at Hyner. The M handled the 40 car train with ease o= n the 1%. Pulled into Renovo and decided to see how far up the Keating grade= it would go. The grade starts at the west end of Renovo at 2.6%. The 40 car= train would normally rate at least 2 powered 6 axles to this point so the M= is equal to this point. The train made it about 1/4 up the 2.6% grade befor= e it slipped and stopped. Tried to restart the train a few times but it was=20= evident that the tonnage was too much. Pulled the 6704 out of the Renovo eng= ine terminal and placed it on the rear of train. With much whistling from th= e one engineer the 2 M's started the train with ease. Got rolling at a nice=20= pace including the short stretch of 3% near the summit. We went over the top= of Keating Summit at about 25 mph with the engines going in and out of sych= as they rolled along.As the train neared the summit the 3% did drag the spe= ed down and the steadily slower exhausts were really great to hear.  Ov= er Keating summit I cut the 6704 off on the fly and  the 6775 brought t= he 40 hoppers down the other side of Keating smoothly with no run in problem= s . The 6775 handled the train with ease to my Delevan staging 39 miles from= Buffalo. This includes a short stretch of 2% just west of Eldred to Portvil= le. I turned both engines and consisted them for the return trip with both o= n the head end. They walked right up the 3% eb ruling grade again with no pr= oblem and completed their run back to Norry.=20
I am really impressed with the running quality, pulling power and the s= ound is a blast to play with. Play value is way up on the scale. Time to get= the turntable/roundhouse in Harrisburg so I'll have a home for these in the= future 56 era.=20
I think I'll try the 70 car Stewart ore train tommorrow. It normally re= quires 5 powered units to get it over Keating Summit. I'll let you know how=20= it turns out.=20
---Having fun in Downingtown -----------------------  Ken McCorry<= /FONT> --part1_15.211450c7.2d4498fc_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Trains 580, 581 Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 23:12:39 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Brian, I know yous aid you are interested in info more for the 1957 consist but I dug through a slide collection I'm borrowing and found that on August 7th, 1964 the Cascade Trails and Cascade Range were sitting at the station in Erie. Theres a tidbit of info for you. -John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harry Fitch" Subject: [PRR] BLI M1a/M1b color Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 02:12:03 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Return-Path: prrk4s@msn.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jan 2004 07:12:09.0864 (UTC) FILETIME=[8C434080:01C3E312] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: A note on the BLI M1a/M1b color. I saw these models at Timonium yesterday and I was hoping that what I was viewing were preproduction models. The color is just too green. It was not as green as the GG1 sitting on the same table with the track loop where the M1a was running (with smoke unit). I have not received my M1b model yet and I am already considering a repaint. Color of course is a subjective topic. Harry prrk4s@msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Breon" Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1 road test Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 10:54:15 -0500 Ken McCorry writes: "Picked up my M-1's at the Timonium show from Jerry. Put two thru their = paces tonight on the Buffalo line." Hmm, Ken's running steam?? While I must admit that Ken's layout is = fantastic no matter what the era and I've even personally been tempted = to cheat my time period forward after listening to his big Alcos idling = in Renovo, the sight (and sound) of those 4-8-2's working up the Keating = grade must have been wonderful. Not to throw any fuel on the fire Ken, but when I quizzed Broadway = Limited yesterday about future offerings I was told that the Pennsy = modelers should be very happy campers during the next few years! Jerry Breon Birdsboro, PA ------=_NextPart_000_055B_01C3E331.9343C2A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Ken McCorry writes:

"Picked up my M-1's=20 at the Timonium show from Jerry. Put two thru their paces tonight on the = Buffalo=20 line."
 
Hmm, Ken's running steam?? While I must admit = that Ken's=20 layout is fantastic no matter what the era and I've even personally been = tempted=20 to cheat my time period forward after listening to his big Alcos = idling in=20 Renovo, the sight (and sound) of those 4-8-2's working up the Keating = grade must=20 have been wonderful.
 
Not to throw any fuel on the fire Ken, but when = I quizzed=20 Broadway Limited yesterday about future offerings I was told that the = Pennsy=20 modelers should be very happy campers during the next few = years!
 
Jerry Breon
Birdsboro, PA
------=_NextPart_000_055B_01C3E331.9343C2A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PGrace" Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1 road test Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:00:49 -0000 Does that mean we will get an H? Patrick Grace Colchester UK ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jerry Breon=20 To: PRR-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 3:54 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1 road test Ken McCorry writes: "Picked up my M-1's at the Timonium show from Jerry. Put two thru = their paces tonight on the Buffalo line." Hmm, Ken's running steam?? While I must admit that Ken's layout is = fantastic no matter what the era and I've even personally been tempted = to cheat my time period forward after listening to his big Alcos idling = in Renovo, the sight (and sound) of those 4-8-2's working up the Keating = grade must have been wonderful. Not to throw any fuel on the fire Ken, but when I quizzed Broadway = Limited yesterday about future offerings I was told that the Pennsy = modelers should be very happy campers during the next few years! Jerry Breon Birdsboro, PA ------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C3E35C.66B1CA90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Does that mean we will get an H?
 
Patrick Grace
Colchester UK
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Jerry = Breon
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 = 3:54=20 PM
Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1 road = test

Ken McCorry writes:

"Picked up my=20 M-1's at the Timonium show from Jerry. Put two thru their paces = tonight on the=20 Buffalo line."
 
Hmm, Ken's running steam?? While I must admit = that Ken's=20 layout is fantastic no matter what the era and I've even personally = been=20 tempted to cheat my time period forward after listening to his = big Alcos=20 idling in Renovo, the sight (and sound) of those 4-8-2's working up = the=20 Keating grade must have been wonderful.
 
Not to throw any fuel on the fire Ken, but = when I=20 quizzed Broadway Limited yesterday about future offerings I was told = that the=20 Pennsy modelers should be very happy campers during the next few=20 years!
 
Jerry Breon
Birdsboro,=20 PA
------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C3E35C.66B1CA90-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 11:05:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1 road test MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry, Ken, When I was in contact with BLI regarding a possible 2nd run of T1's with the chance of having them design a new Boiler and Tender shell to represent the earlier 1945/1946 porthole shroud, Tony said that would be a great idea to look into but right now their plate is full of Pennsy locos. So it does look like we are in for some more PRR releases but nothing was mentioned to what anything would be. Could it be an I1s, an H Class? a B6sb? or could a K4s be in our future......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 11:17:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1 road test MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Pat, Or do we dare wish for a BF15/16 or BP20 A-B-A set, with burbbling sounds complete with the smell of leaking oil?......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PGrace" Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1 road test Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:21:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Spam-Processed: mail.aspects.net, Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:21:31 +0000 (not processed: spam filter disabled) X-MDRemoteIP: 194.164.118.182 X-Return-Path: pgrace@aspects.net X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: prr-talk@dsop.com Reply-To: pgrace@aspects.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gary, I love the idea but especially the oil leak, but as like many "Brits" my layout is designed for exhibition I can just imagine how the Health & Safety authorities would react......... Anyway a nice 2-8-0 for switching would suit a 14' by 22" layout. Patrick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1 road test > Pat, > Or do we dare wish for a BF15/16 or BP20 A-B-A set, with burbbling > sounds complete with the smell of leaking oil?......Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work! > > PRR K4s Loco Pics: > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ > > PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > > and...... > > PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Trains 580, 581 Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 11:23:12 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: >From Drew McGhee, back in '97: "The April 1956 _Official Guide..._ lists the typical make up of the trains, north of Williamsport, as follows: 575/581 Dominion/Northern Express Lounge Car Washington - Buffalo 8 S Buffet Sleeping Cars Philly - Buffalo 10 S 5 DB Washington - Buffalo 10 S 5 DB to 581 Washington - Erie 10 S 3 DB to 581 NYC - Erie 8S 5 DB from Train #1 to 581 NYC - Erie 10 S 3 DB from Train #1 NYC - Emporium Cafe Car to 581 Washington - Erie Coaches Washington - Buffalo to 581 Philly - Erie from Train 615 574/580 Dominion/Souther Express Lounge Car Buffalo - Washington 8 S Buffet Sleeping Cars Buffalo - Philly 10 s 5 DB Buffalo - Washington 10 S 5 DB from 580 Erie - Washington 10 S 3 DB from 580 Erie - NYC 8 S 5 DB via train #20 from 580 Erie - NYC 10 S 3 DB via Train #20 Cafe Car from 580 Erie - Harrisburg Coaches Buffalo - Washington Buffalo - Philly via Train #36 from 580 Erie - Harrisburg" And from Drew again soon after: "And a while back, I provided some information about trains 574/575 the Dominion/Washington Express and 580/581 the Southern/Northern Express. I mentioned that they ran as a combined train to Harrisburg-Emporium. At Emporium 574/575 ran as its own train Emporium-Buffalo and 580/581 ran as its own train Emporium-Erie. This is true after 1954. Prior to that they were two complete and separate trains from Harrisburg-Buffalo in the case of 574/575 and Harrisburg-Erie in the case of 580/581. They ran about 20 minutes apart. This summer I had the opportunity to talk with a former PRR RICH tower operator (McElhattan, PA). He had kept the timetables he was issued for the years he was employed by the railroad; 1950-1965. The timetables indicated that the two trains ran independantly and separately from each other until General Order #311 was issued April 25, 1954. After that, they ran combined Emporium-Harrisburg. According to Wayner Publications' _Passenger Train Consists of the 1940s_, train 574, the Dominion Express, had the following make up as it departed Buffalo on May 14, 1945: Two K4s locomotives #s 5426 (lead) and 7116 Baggage Express 5644 Baggage Mail 5467 Baggage Coach 5118 Three Coaches 3746, 4359, 4244 Poplar Isle Isaac Hull Ambassodor Poplar Leaf Mettler Dunning The Duquesne Business Car Buffalo Business Car Hope this was of some help." --- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, Chautauqua branches web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian J Carlson" To: "PRR Fax" Cc: "PRR Talk" Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 10:22 AM Subject: [PRR] PRR Trains 580, 581 > I am trying to determine what class of sleeper was assigned to trains 580, > 581. At one time there was a New York to Erie Sleeper. Pictures on pages > 54, 55, in Pennsy Diesel Years volume 3 shows the train in 1964. I'm more > interested in 1957. > > Brian J Carlson > Cheektowaga NY > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-talk@dsop.com From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1 road test Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 12:15:13 -0500 To: KEMACPRR@aol.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Jan 24, 2004, at 10:58 PM, KEMACPRR@aol.com wrote: > Picked up my M-1's at the Timonium show from Jerry. Put two thru their=20= > paces tonight on the Buffalo line. Put the 6775 and 6704 in service at=20= > Norry. Only programming I did was assign the long address's didn't=20 > change anything else. The DGLE is a bit too green for me but I think=20= > some weathering will cure that problem. Side rods /valve gear needs to=20= > be dirtied up as do the lead truck wheels. Sounds are nice a bit loud=20= > and I will adjust later but now for some fun. Ken: The master volume can be adjusted mechanically. However, there is=20= a CV. Check the manual for CV's 49 and 51. 51 actually holds the master=20= volume and it defaults to max (127). At Jeff Warner's last evening we=20 set mine to 50 and that was pretty good. > Couple the 6775 to 40- 100 ton Bowser PPLX hoppers with a CR brown=20 > N-5c attached. These cars are equipped with Intermountain Wheelsets=20 > and are really free rolling. Time to head north. The rr is water level=20= > until you pass Lock Haven where the first grade of any signicance is=20= > achieved. It's a 1% from there to Renovo thru the curves at Hyner. The=20= > M handled the 40 car train with ease on the 1%. Pulled into Renovo and=20= > decided to see how far up the Keating grade it would go. The grade=20 > starts at the west end of Renovo at 2.6%. The 40 car train would=20 > normally rate at least 2 powered 6 axles to this point so the M is=20 > equal to this point. The train made it about 1/4 up the 2.6% grade=20 > before it slipped and stopped. Tried to restart the train a few times=20= > but it was evident that the tonnage was too much. Pulled the 6704 out=20= > of the Renovo engine terminal and placed it on the rear of train. With=20= > much whistling from the one engineer the 2 M's started the train with=20= > ease. Got rolling at a nice pace including the short stretch of 3%=20 > near the summit. We went over the top of Keating Summit at about 25=20 > mph with the engines going in and out of sych as they rolled along.As=20= > the train neared the summit the 3% did drag the speed down and the=20 > steadily slower exhausts were really great to hear. =A0Over Keating=20 > summit I cut the 6704 off on the fly and =A0the 6775 brought the 40=20 > hoppers down the other side of Keating smoothly with no run in=20 > problems . The 6775 handled the train with ease to my Delevan staging=20= > 39 miles from Buffalo. This includes a short stretch of 2% just west=20= > of Eldred to Portville. I turned both engines and consisted them for=20= > the return trip with both on the head end. They walked right up the 3%=20= > eb ruling grade again with no problem and completed their run back to=20= > Norry. Excellent "real world" test. Thanks for the report! > I am really impressed with the running quality, pulling power and the=20= > sound is a blast to play with. Play value is way up on the scale. Time=20= > to get the turntable/roundhouse in Harrisburg so I'll have a home for=20= > these in the future 56 era. > I think I'll try the 70 car Stewart ore train tommorrow. It normally=20= > requires 5 powered units to get it over Keating Summit. I'll let you=20= > know how it turns out. FYI, the M1's come with a dummy coupler on the pilot, unlike the T1's=20 which has a working coupler. Haven't explored the changeout yet. Also,=20= the M1's were made in China; the T1's in Korea, FWIW. > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Breon" Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1 road test Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 12:34:21 -0500 Jerry writes "FYI, the M1's come with a dummy coupler on the pilot, unlike the T1's=20 which has a working coupler." Actually, the T1's (at least mine) arrived with a static Kadee clone = type coupler on the front. The knuckle is fixed and does not operate. It = will mate with Kadee's, but must be mechanically engaged. It will not = couple automatically in my tests. Jerry Breon Birdsboro, PA ------=_NextPart_000_0576_01C3E33F.8E9FFBC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Jerry writes
"FYI, the M1's come with a dummy coupler on the = pilot,=20 unlike the T1's
which has a working coupler."
 
Actually, the T1's (at least mine) arrived with a static Kadee = clone type=20 coupler on the front. The knuckle is fixed and does not operate. It will = mate=20 with Kadee's, but must be mechanically engaged. It will not couple = automatically=20 in my tests.
Jerry Breon
Birdsboro, PA
------=_NextPart_000_0576_01C3E33F.8E9FFBC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] air eraser revisited Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 13:24:42 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, Does anyone know where I can get the abrasive dust for an air eraser? I need it to be suitable for cleaning brass cars without killing them. I am thinking about buying the Paasche AEC-K Air Eraser Kit. Does anyone have any experience with this unit? Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1 road test Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 13:40:03 -0500 I have two T1's and they both have the fixed coupler that will not = operate. Larry ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jerry Breon=20 Cc: PRR-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1 road test Jerry writes "FYI, the M1's come with a dummy coupler on the pilot, unlike the T1's = which has a working coupler." Actually, the T1's (at least mine) arrived with a static Kadee clone = type coupler on the front. The knuckle is fixed and does not operate. It = will mate with Kadee's, but must be mechanically engaged. It will not = couple automatically in my tests. Jerry Breon Birdsboro, PA ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C3E348.BC58C2F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
I have two T1's and they both have the = fixed coupler=20 that will not operate.
 
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Jerry = Breon
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 = 12:34=20 PM
Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1 road = test

Jerry writes
"FYI, the M1's come with a dummy coupler on the = pilot,=20 unlike the T1's
which has a working coupler."
 
Actually, the T1's (at least mine) arrived with a static Kadee = clone type=20 coupler on the front. The knuckle is fixed and does not operate. It = will mate=20 with Kadee's, but must be mechanically engaged. It will not couple=20 automatically in my tests.
Jerry Breon
Birdsboro, PA
------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C3E348.BC58C2F0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:27:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1 road test MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry, Check out Tony's Train Exchange. He now has photos of what it took to mount KD's on both the M1a and M1b's....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] air eraser revisited Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 14:43:13 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Bill--I use Paasche's air eraser and am satisfied with it. The only shortcoming is having to frequently refill the supply cup. Looking at Paasche's catalog, the AEX-6 Fast Cutting Compound is 6 oz. of aluminum oxide, just the right stuff for cleaning brass. When I bought mine, I also bought a 5 lb. container of the same stuff. They also have pumice and corn starch which could be used on plastic. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 13:47:40 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Emporium Junction, a correction Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 13:50:20 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] air eraser revisited From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1 road test Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 17:26:21 -0500 Ken and all: I also picked up my M-1's today. All I can say is "Beautiful"! Say = goodbye to brass! These things and the T-1's are just grand. I coupled = one to a 33 car train and it pulled the train with little effort. I = tried it up the East Slope, but it slipped to a stop. That's ok, with = two decks added to the rear of the train, all was fine. I'm extremely = happy with the F5 function that lowers the exhaust for coasting. Maybe = side rod clank will be a future feature. The only disappointments that = I can see, (you know someone ALWAYS does this), are the solid front = coupler, the single hole in the drawbar, (easily fixed), and the = crosshead guide slanting upward towards the rear. It looks like this is = a design compromise. Can't wait till the next session. Larry ----- Original Message -----=20 From: KEMACPRR@aol.com=20 To: PRR-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 10:58 PM Subject: [PRR] M-1 road test Picked up my M-1's at the Timonium show from Jerry. Put two thru their = paces tonight on the Buffalo line. Put the 6775 and 6704 in service at = Norry. Only programming I did was assign the long address's didn't = change anything else. The DGLE is a bit too green for me but I think = some weathering will cure that problem. Side rods /valve gear needs to = be dirtied up as do the lead truck wheels. Sounds are nice a bit loud = and I will adjust later but now for some fun. Couple the 6775 to 40- 100 = ton Bowser PPLX hoppers with a CR brown N-5c attached. These cars are = equipped with Intermountain Wheelsets and are really free rolling. Time = to head north. The rr is water level until you pass Lock Haven where the = first grade of any signicance is achieved. It's a 1% from there to = Renovo thru the curves at Hyner. The M handled the 40 car train with = ease on the 1%. Pulled into Renovo and decided to see how far up the = Keating grade it would go. The grade starts at the west end of Renovo at = 2.6%. The 40 car train would normally rate at least 2 powered 6 axles to = this point so the M is equal to this point. The train made it about 1/4 = up the 2.6% grade before it slipped and stopped. Tried to restart the = train a few times but it was evident that the tonnage was too much. = Pulled the 6704 out of the Renovo engine terminal and placed it on the = rear of train. With much whistling from the one engineer the 2 M's = started the train with ease. Got rolling at a nice pace including the = short stretch of 3% near the summit. We went over the top of Keating = Summit at about 25 mph with the engines going in and out of sych as they = rolled along.As the train neared the summit the 3% did drag the speed = down and the steadily slower exhausts were really great to hear. Over = Keating summit I cut the 6704 off on the fly and the 6775 brought the = 40 hoppers down the other side of Keating smoothly with no run in = problems . The 6775 handled the train with ease to my Delevan staging 39 = miles from Buffalo. This includes a short stretch of 2% just west of = Eldred to Portville. I turned both engines and consisted them for the = return trip with both on the head end. They walked right up the 3% eb = ruling grade again with no problem and completed their run back to = Norry.=20 I am really impressed with the running quality, pulling power and the = sound is a blast to play with. Play value is way up on the scale. Time = to get the turntable/roundhouse in Harrisburg so I'll have a home for = these in the future 56 era.=20 I think I'll try the 70 car Stewart ore train tommorrow. It normally = requires 5 powered units to get it over Keating Summit. I'll let you = know how it turns out.=20 ---Having fun in Downingtown ----------------------- Ken McCorry ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C3E368.5974B2F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Ken and all:
 
I also picked up my M-1's = today.  All I=20 can say  is "Beautiful"!  Say goodbye to brass!  These = things and=20 the T-1's are just grand.  I coupled one to a 33 car train and it = pulled=20 the train with little effort.  I tried it up the East Slope, = but it=20 slipped to a stop.  That's ok, with two decks added to the rear of = the=20 train, all was fine.  I'm extremely happy with the F5 function that = lowers=20 the exhaust for coasting.  Maybe side rod clank will be a future=20 feature.  The only disappointments that I can see, (you know = someone ALWAYS=20 does this), <G> are the solid front coupler, the single hole in = the=20 drawbar, (easily fixed), and the crosshead guide slanting upward towards = the=20 rear.  It looks like this is a design compromise.
 
Can't wait till the next = session.
 
Larry
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 KEMACPRR@aol.com=20
Sent: Saturday, January 24, = 2004 10:58=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] M-1 road = test

Picked up=20 my M-1's at the Timonium show from Jerry. Put two thru their paces = tonight on=20 the Buffalo line. Put the 6775 and 6704 in service at Norry. Only = programming=20 I did was assign the long address's didn't change anything else. The = DGLE is a=20 bit too green for me but I think some weathering will cure that = problem. Side=20 rods /valve gear needs to be dirtied up as do the lead truck wheels. = Sounds=20 are nice a bit loud and I will adjust later but now for some fun. = Couple the=20 6775 to 40- 100 ton Bowser PPLX hoppers with a CR brown N-5c attached. = These=20 cars are equipped with Intermountain Wheelsets and are really free = rolling.=20 Time to head north. The rr is water level until you pass Lock Haven = where the=20 first grade of any signicance is achieved. It's a 1% from there to = Renovo thru=20 the curves at Hyner. The M handled the 40 car train with ease on the = 1%.=20 Pulled into Renovo and decided to see how far up the Keating grade it = would=20 go. The grade starts at the west end of Renovo at 2.6%. The 40 car = train would=20 normally rate at least 2 powered 6 axles to this point so the M is = equal to=20 this point. The train made it about 1/4 up the 2.6% grade before it = slipped=20 and stopped. Tried to restart the train a few times but it was evident = that=20 the tonnage was too much. Pulled the 6704 out of the Renovo engine = terminal=20 and placed it on the rear of train. With much whistling from the one = engineer=20 the 2 M's started the train with ease. Got rolling at a nice pace = including=20 the short stretch of 3% near the summit. We went over the top of = Keating=20 Summit at about 25 mph with the engines going in and out of sych as = they=20 rolled along.As the train neared the summit the 3% did drag the speed = down and=20 the steadily slower exhausts were really great to hear.  Over = Keating=20 summit I cut the 6704 off on the fly and  the 6775 brought the 40 = hoppers=20 down the other side of Keating smoothly with no run in problems . The = 6775=20 handled the train with ease to my Delevan staging 39 miles from = Buffalo. This=20 includes a short stretch of 2% just west of Eldred to Portville. I = turned both=20 engines and consisted them for the return trip with both on the head = end. They=20 walked right up the 3% eb ruling grade again with no problem and = completed=20 their run back to Norry.
I am really impressed with the running = quality,=20 pulling power and the sound is a blast to play with. Play value is way = up on=20 the scale. Time to get the turntable/roundhouse in Harrisburg so I'll = have a=20 home for these in the future 56 era.
I think I'll try the 70 car = Stewart=20 ore train tommorrow. It normally requires 5 powered units to get it = over=20 Keating Summit. I'll let you know how it turns out.
---Having fun = in=20 Downingtown -----------------------  Ken McCorry=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C3E368.5974B2F0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <89B583BF-4F87-11D8-B9C9-000A9570A806@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] BLI T1, M1 Couplers Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 17:40:55 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Earlier I made a post commenting that the M1 had a non-working coupler vs. the T1 which works. Others indicated theirs (T1) did not. I just took another look and a clarification is in order. I did not try to double-head the T1. I noted that the coupler had swivel/pivot action and ASSUMED it worked. Turns out it is indeed non-functional. It does pivot/swivel though. The M1 coupler is not only non-functional, but is totally rigid. Please accept my humble apology over this inaccurate report. I must be flogged!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] MoW Paint Color and "S" Cars Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 20:44:55 -0500 Pat, et al., >From the rosters I have, the PRR seemed to list everything as work equipment. I don't recall seeing any PRR wreck derricks w/ MW stencils, I think that was a PC thing. The AAR classes listed most company service cars as "General Service Maintenance of Way Equipment Cars," with the first two characters being "MW"- the third character identified the use so the wrecking derricks were "MWW," camp cars (boarding outfit cars) were "MWX," store-supply cars were "MWM," etc., etc. You're right about the B&B being under Engineering (MW). The MW department was the umbrella organization for Track, B&B and C&S. I forgot the transportation department also had work equipment - the air brake instruction cars. Al ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01C3E384.16D630B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Message
Pat, et al.,
 
From the rosters I have, the PRR = seemed to=20 list everything as work equipment. I don't recall seeing any PRR wreck = derricks=20 w/ MW stencils, I think that was a PC thing. The AAR classes listed most company service = cars as=20 "General Service Maintenance of Way Equipment Cars," with the first two=20 characters being "MW"- the third character identified the use so the = wrecking=20 derricks were "MWW," camp cars (boarding outfit cars) were "MWX," = store-supply=20 cars were "MWM," etc., etc.
 
You're right about the B&B = being under=20 Engineering (MW). The MW department was the umbrella organization for = Track,=20 B&B and C&S.
 
I forgot the transportation = department also=20 had work equipment - the air brake instruction cars.
 
Al
------=_NextPart_000_0083_01C3E384.16D630B0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 19:29:51 -0800 (PST) From: MICHAEL MERCURE Subject: [PRR] BLI E7A's From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 01:34:52 EST Subject: [PRR] M-1 road test part 2----long Well tonight I decided to see how the new BLI M's would handle ore traffic over my Keating grade. Since I'm currently operaing a 1979-81 time period the train used was 70 of the new Stewart G-39/39b jennys. All equipted with Intermountain wheelsets. Turned the 6704/6775 from last nights test on the wye at Kase. Pulled the A-B-A-B-A-A-A set of Stewart F's off the train and headed north. The F unit set was used during the last open house's in November so the train would not require helpers during open houses. Of the 7 units 6 are powered and all are required to make the grade at Keating. The 6704/6775 pulled out of Norry and crossed over to track 1. Got right up to track speed thru East Allens , same thru West Allens then on to Lock Haven. Past Lock Haven the grade begins at 1% thru two 180 degree curves between Lock Haven and Hyner with no problem. Train speed down somewhat and really sounded nice thru the cut coming into Drocton at the east end of Renovo. Decided again to see how far they would pull up Keating and poured the coal on going thru Drury. The engines stalled out at about the same place the 6704 did the previous night with the 40 car hopper train. Backed the train down so the head end was at the yellow pole just west of Drury. This is where we normally stop trains for helpers at Renovo. It's marked by a telephone pole with the bottom half painted yellow. I had the 6766 ready at Renovo for helper duty. Came out at Drocton and coupled to the train. In order to couple to the dummy couplers you have to lift one coupler over the other. The engineer whistled his readiness and away we went. Started off good but by the time the entire train was on the grade is was evident that 3 M's wasn't going to be enough. Train speed kept dropping until we stalled with the head end just west of the first automatic signal. Rather than trying to start the train on the 2.6% I backed the train back down to Renovo where we first started. Out of Renovo came the 6716 and it coupled on to the rear of the 6766 at the rear of the train. We now have 4 M's 70 cars of ore and 1 N-5b ready to go. Some fancy whistling and away we go again. This time it looks good. Train is moving at about 20 mph with helpers doing about half the work. Head end thru Wrights and now into the 3%. Train starts slowing , I apply more throttle it slows more I apply more throttle. I stand there amazed at the sound of 4 M's at about 10 mph as the head end goes over the summit. I cut the 6766/6716 off on the fly at the summit and the leaders took the train down the 3% with narry a hitch. The 6704/6775 continue north thru Eldred and have little problem with the short 2% grade from there to Portville. I then ran the 6766/6716 back to Renovo and called it a night. A few items I have found out. lower the volume to about half it sound much better , much less distortion. The dummy coupler on the front will cause problems when really pushing hard as it has no side play and the fit of a KD is tight. It lifted the cabin car right off the track if I pushed too hard. I will have to replace the dummies with KD's as shown on the Tony's Train exchange web site. Some of the locos have a tighter fit on the drawbar hole which will cause problem with the lead tender truck. Larry Reynold's has already reported this. A simple reaming out with a #11 blade fixes the problem. The distance between the loco tender is a little too big for my eyes. I think it's to allow the loco to negotiate tighter radius. I have a 36'' minimum so I might drill another hole in the drawbar for a little tighter coupling. If you decide to take the tender body off the instructions are WRONG. Just remove the two screws visible in the middle of the tender floor and the body will come off. All in all I am very pleased with the operation qualities of the M's. I intend to run them a good bit to see how they last in a long term test. By the way it took me 25 minutes to get over the grade which is a lot longer than the diesels normally take but it was a lot more fun and more challenging. Hope you enjoyed the ride. ------------------ -------------------------------------------Ken McCorry --part1_165.2a62495b.2d460f0c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Well tonight=20= I decided to see how the new BLI M's would handle ore traffic over my Keatin= g grade. Since I'm currently operaing a 1979-81 time period the train used w= as 70 of the new Stewart G-39/39b jennys. All equipted with Intermountain wh= eelsets. Turned the 6704/6775 from last nights test on the wye at Kase. Pull= ed the A-B-A-B-A-A-A set of Stewart F's off the train and headed north. The=20= F unit set was used during the last open house's in November so the train &n= bsp;would not require helpers during open houses. Of the 7 units 6 are power= ed  and all are required to make the grade at Keating. The 6704/6775 pu= lled out of Norry and crossed over to track 1. Got right up to track speed t= hru East Allens , same thru West Allens then on to Lock Haven. Past Lock Hav= en the grade begins at 1% thru two 180 degree curves between Lock Haven and=20= Hyner with no problem. Train speed down somewhat and really sounded nice thr= u the cut coming into Drocton at the east end of Renovo. Decided again to se= e how far they would pull up Keating and poured the coal on going thru Drury= . The engines stalled out at about the same place the 6704 did the previous=20= night with the 40 car hopper train. Backed the train down so the head end wa= s at the yellow pole just west of Drury. This is where we normally stop trai= ns for helpers at Renovo. It's marked by a telephone pole with the bottom ha= lf painted yellow. I had the 6766 ready at Renovo for helper duty. Came out=20= at Drocton and coupled to the train. In order to couple to the dummy coupler= s you have to lift one coupler over the other. The engineer whistled his rea= diness and away we went. Started off good but by the time the entire train w= as on the grade is was evident that 3 M's wasn't going to be enough. Train s= peed kept dropping until we stalled with the head end just west of the first= automatic signal. Rather than trying to start the train on the 2.6% I backe= d the train back down to Renovo where we first started. Out of Renovo came t= he 6716 and it coupled on to the rear of the 6766 at the rear of the train.=20= We now have 4 M's 70 cars of ore and 1 N-5b  ready to go. Some fancy wh= istling and away we go again. This time it looks good. Train is moving at ab= out 20 mph with helpers doing about half the work. Head end thru Wrights and= now into the 3%. Train starts slowing , I apply more throttle it slows more= I apply more throttle. I stand there amazed at the sound of 4 M's at about=20= 10 mph as the head end goes over the summit. I cut the 6766/6716 off on the=20= fly at the summit and the leaders took the train down the 3% with narry a hi= tch. The 6704/6775 continue north thru Eldred and have little problem with t= he short 2% grade from there to Portville. I then ran the 6766/6716 back to=20= Renovo and called it a night. A few items I have found out. lower the volume= to about half it sound much better , much less distortion. The dummy couple= r on the front will cause problems when really pushing hard as it has no sid= e play and the fit of a KD is tight. It lifted the cabin car right off the t= rack if I pushed too hard. I will have to replace the dummies with KD's as s= hown on the Tony's Train exchange web site. Some of the locos have a tighter= fit on the drawbar hole which will cause problem with the lead tender truck= . Larry Reynold's has already reported this. A simple reaming out with a #11= blade fixes the problem. The distance between the loco tender is a little t= oo big for my eyes. I think it's to allow the loco to negotiate tighter radi= us. I have a 36'' minimum so I might drill another hole in the drawbar for a= little tighter coupling. If you decide to take the tender body off the inst= ructions are WRONG. Just remove the two screws visible in the middle of the=20= tender floor and the body will come off.=20
All in all I am very pleased with the operation qualities of the M's. I= intend to run them a good bit to see how they last in a long term test. &nb= sp; By the way it took me 25 minutes to get over the grade which is a l= ot longer than the diesels normally  take but it was a lot more fun and= more challenging. Hope you enjoyed the ride. ------------------
-------------------------------------------Ken McCorry --part1_165.2a62495b.2d460f0c_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI E7A's Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 07:24:40 -0500 To: MICHAEL MERCURE X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Jan 25, 2004, at 10:29 PM, MICHAEL MERCURE wrote: > Does anyone know when and how the additional E7A units > from Broadway Limited can be ordered? I think I read > that they will be offereing these separate "A" units > -- this way an A-B-A lashup can be made. Any BLI dealer can take your order. If your regular dealer can not, or does not know how, Merchandise Service would be more than happy to meet your needs (address in sig). > > I have tried to send an e-mail to BLI but keep getting > an error message that their server is refusing the > e-mail!! I think there server is having some issues. I know they are in the process of physically moving their offices. > > Mike > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-talk@dsop.com, BobDavis@silverstar.com From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1 road test part 2----long Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 07:29:15 -0500 To: KEMACPRR@aol.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Jan 26, 2004, at 1:34 AM, KEMACPRR@aol.com wrote: > Well tonight I decided to see how the new BLI M's would handle ore > traffic over my Keating grade. Sounds like Brad needs to do another model railroad video!!! Wow, 4 M's... cool! I agree with the volume setting to half. I actually took mine to 50 (out of 127). We had tried 70 but thought that still to loud. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:29:44 -0500 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:38:32 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Monday, January 26, 2004, at 09:29 AM, Sam Vastano wrote: > Group, > > I have been thinking about how Broadway Limited will effect the price > of the brass locomotives? Any opinions? > New brass will remain where it is, in my opinion, though there will likely be less offered. More brass importers will migrate to high end plastic like Oriental Imports/Broadway Limited Imports did. Brass models that have now been done in high-end plastic will go on "fire sale". ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:43:21 -0500 >From: Jerry Britton >Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD >Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:38:32 -0500 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 08:59:25 -0600 Subject: TAN: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Monday, January 26, 2004, at 08:29 AM, Sam Vastano wrote: > I have been thinking about how Broadway Limited will effect the price > of the brass locomotives? Any opinions? While I'm not sure that this has a whole lot to do with the PRR, it does impact PRR modelers... I think that this will have little impact on brass, EXCEPT for two issues: 1) As seen in the larger scales, HO brass may now start to come with sound. After all, it will only add $100 to the price tag, and on a $1K+ loco, that's not a big deal. 2) Low end brass prices (e.g. Sunset) will stagnate even more (I doubt they will fall) eBay has really leveled the playing field for brass by nationalizing the market. Where before, your local dealer could get more for a given loco, because you had fewer choices, now, you've got the whole country...so for common locos in good supply, brass prices have been flat or even fallen (e.g. for ALCO Models P5A boxcabs) . For rare locos it has the opposite effect, as now the pool of buyers has gotten bigger, and the price goes up (e.g. for that elusive Alpha R1 I want). BLI locos have nowhere near the detail of high end brass and simply don't compete there so they will not affect the price. The impact that has me wondering is on Bowser. I cannot imagine why anyone would actually buy one of their (innacurate) T1 models at this point. It can't be price, because by the time you've fixed the Bowser (the parts that can be fixed) and added sound, you've equalled the price of the BLI. Any new BLI PRR steam will almost certainly impact on Bowser and Sunset as well...I1, L1, H9/10, B6, etc... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:01:53 -0500 From: Tom Hayden Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Coaling Towers Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:19:06 -0500 From: Prr6100@aol.com Subject: [PRR] M-1 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Has anyone who ordered the new M-1's from Standard Hobby recieved it yet? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:29:39 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1 From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Monday, January 26, 2004, at 10:19 AM, Prr6100@aol.com wrote: > Has anyone who ordered the new M-1's from Standard Hobby recieved it > yet? Nobody should panic if they haven't received their M1's from whomever yet. Apparently MS got theirs a bit earlier than most... Over the weekend I finally met Tim Nissley, the sales manager for BLI. Turns out MS had one of the largest orders and they were drop shipped directly from China. So other dealers' units will go to BLI first, then shipped to the dealers, then to the final customers. May be a week or so difference. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:11:21 -0500 Subject: [PRR] N Scale P85b Coaches From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <483D1452-501A-11D8-B19C-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Public Service Announcement... Though the ETA has not yet been established, InterMountain has put N scale P85b coaches (Des Plaines Hobbies / Centralia Car Shops) back into production. They should appear late spring. The first to appear will be the later scheme, with the Keystone logo on it, as was just delivered in HO scale. They will follow with a rerun of the PENNSYLVANIA on the letter board scheme. Marty McGuirk tells me they are considering doing six road numbers -- they did four the first time around. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:38:56 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] BLI PRR J1 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: what is the thing that this model is displayed on? Jim McDaniel, Delmarva, confused as usual ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "J. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:51:23 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Not yet. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 10:19 AM Subject: [PRR] M-1 > Has anyone who ordered the new M-1's from Standard Hobby recieved it yet? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:57:15 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Vastano" > > Maybe it is just me but it looks like older used brass has been falling in > price.... eBay for one has been down 20-40% on most model rail items this last year. The economy. And older used brass is definitely down. There are exceptions for some rare brass or other items. I haven't tried selling an old Walthers HW passenger kit or CV truck this year , so don't know if they have declined from their usual premium prices, but out of production resin kits still get a premium. That Challenger brass 1938 Broadway Limited set which sold for $2500 in 1992 and peaked at well over $5000 in value during the 90's is down to about $2500 on eBay in two recent sales. A factory painted Gem Olympia brass Pennsy loco which got $450 in 1992 struggles to get about $300 today. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:12:29 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] BLI PRR J1 From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Monday, January 26, 2004, at 10:38 AM, James L. McDaniel wrote: > what is the thing that this model is displayed on? > > Jim McDaniel, Delmarva, confused as usual Rollers (and not really set up right either!) They allow he model to run, while stationary...just like the Altoona test plant ;^) Several brands are available. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Breon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] BLI PRR J1 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:31:16 -0500 Jim asks: "what is the thing that this model is displayed on?" The BLI PRR J1 was being displayed this past weekend in Timonium on a = fully adjustable, stationary fixture that allowed the model to operate = much the same as the S1 was displayed at the New York World's Fair in = 1939. In this case the model's drivers were resting and turning on = rollers whereas the S1 in NY was actually suspended about an inch above = the rails (or so I've read). I overheard the BLI representative = explaining that the fixture was manufactured in Germany and cost several = hundred dollars. The model ran smoothly and the sound was great BTW, although I could not = determine if the bell sound was brass or steel (threw that in for you = Gary M.) because of crowd noise. Jerry Breon Birdsboro, PA ------=_NextPart_000_061E_01C3E410.B13731E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Jim asks:
"what is the thing that this model is displayed = on?"
 
The BLI PRR J1 was being displayed this past weekend in Timonium on = a fully=20 adjustable, stationary fixture that allowed the model to operate much = the same=20 as the S1 was displayed at the New York World's Fair in 1939. = In this=20 case the model's drivers were resting and turning on rollers whereas the = S1 in=20 NY was actually suspended about an inch above the rails (or so I've = read). I=20 overheard the BLI representative explaining that the fixture was = manufactured in=20 Germany and cost several hundred dollars.
 
The model ran smoothly and the sound was great BTW, although I = could not=20 determine if the bell sound was brass or steel (threw that in for you = Gary M.)=20 because of crowd noise.
 
Jerry Breon
Birdsboro, PA
------=_NextPart_000_061E_01C3E410.B13731E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Emporium Junction Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:00:48 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Also, a year or two ago, much of the old roundhouse foundation (5 stall roundhouse) was still there, in the weeds between the tracks and the road across the road from the gas station/mini-mart. The coaling tower was just north (RR east) of that along the yard, but I don't believe there are any signs of it left. At Keating Summit, you can still see the location of the old wye where the B&S joined the PRR way back in the early 1900's. Amazing it's still there. A few (several?) miles further along, down the east slope of Keating Hill, are two humongous concrete piers left over from the overpass where the Potato Creek, a standard gage logging railroad, once crossed the PRR, as I understand it. The PRR must have insisted on these massive piers for some reason, unless there was once more there than an overpass. I've theorized there might/should have been an on-line coaling facility somewhere near there (Wrights?), based on miles from Linden/Nisbet near Williamsport and from Buffalo. They would have had to take coal near there, and the Emporium facility didn't seem big enough to serve both the through trains and the helpers for Keating Hill. However, noone has been able to confirm. Bill Bigler - 4915 Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert netzlof" To: Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 4:47 PM Subject: [PRR] Emporium Junction, a correction > Several days ago, someone wondered if there was still a coaling tower > at Emporium Junction. I said no, and added that there was nothing > remaining "from the age of steam". > > Wrong. > > I happened to pass through there today and noticed an elderly tool > house north of the route 120 grade crossing. I'd be willing to bet > that it was there where the PRR was still there, and possibly the > BNY&P. Had a quite Victorian look to it. > > > > ===== > Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:10:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] BLI PRR J1 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry Be, Ahh, I got you thinking Steel Bell as well!!!! I am wondering if you noticed the Bell color on the J1. Was it Brass as the T1 or was it dark like a good rendition of Steel? I already emailed BLI about the color of the cab roof and the dog house roof. And yes, I mention the bell color to them too. They may as well their spend the money correctly. All they need to do is add a modern diesel bell sound chip instead of the brassy steam type to get a better sample we are after.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:44:17 -0500 Subject: [PRR] TANGENT: QSI Discussion Group From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <0747E1A6-5038-11D8-B19C-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: For those of you with BLI locomotives, you might want to know that there is a Yeehaw group set up by QSI -- the manufacturer of the decoders in the BLI locomotives. The address is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/QSIndustries/ Pat Quinn, the "Q" in QSI is very active and the group is obviously affecting some changes. You'll find some tricks in this group, as well as some good solutions. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] BLI PRR J1 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:59:01 -0600 MIcromark has a set of 4 rollers you can mount on a track for $60. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jerry Breon=20 I overheard the BLI representative explaining that the fixture was = manufactured in Germany and cost several hundred dollars. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C3E414.8CF34D60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
MIcromark has a set of 4 rollers you can mount = on a track=20 for $60.
 
Bob Zoeller
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Jerry = Breon
I overheard the BLI representative = explaining=20 that the fixture was manufactured in Germany and cost several hundred=20 dollars.
 
------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C3E414.8CF34D60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:15:33 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Emporium Junction From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:34:55 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD My feelings are that the potential investment value increase will be less than in the past. While the detail quality is not on the same level as the newer brass units. The collectors will still buy the brass as a collectable but fewer operators will purchase the more expensive brass that still needs work to put it on par with the sound equipped. DCC ready plastic. Long term repair part availibility is a big problem with brass steam. Hopefully the plastic versions will not have the same problems. I've purchased PRR brass steam in the past but will not do so in the future. $1200 for an I-1 that is going to be run is too much. just my opinion. ---------Ken McCorry --part1_148.213fd5b4.2d46d3ef_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" My feelings a= re that the potential investment value increase will be less than in the pas= t. While the detail quality is not on the same level as the newer brass unit= s. The collectors will still buy the brass as a collectable but fewer operat= ors will purchase the more expensive brass that still needs work to put it o= n par with the sound equipped. DCC ready plastic. Long term repair part avai= libility is a big problem with brass steam. Hopefully the plastic versions w= ill not have the same problems.  I've purchased PRR brass steam in the=20= past but will not do so in the future. $1200 for an I-1 that is going to be=20= run is too much.  just my opinion. ---------Ken McCorry --part1_148.213fd5b4.2d46d3ef_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Hough " Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:41:55 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Coaling Towers Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:52:05 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Wye at Keating Summit From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Wye at Keating Summit Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:22:45 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-MDRemoteIP: 192.0.1.150 X-Return-Path: geshick@velocity.net X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: prr-talk@dsop.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Just a guess, but might the wye have been used for turning helpers? Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert netzlof" To: "William Bigler" ; Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 3:52 PM Subject: [PRR] Wye at Keating Summit > --- robert netzlof wrote: > > --- William Bigler wrote: > > > Amazing it's still there. > > > > Well, maybe. It's not like it was in prime farm country where > > someone > > couldn't wait to start plowing once the train stopped running. > > > > Looked at the map at > > http://historical.maptech.com/getImage.asp?fname=empr48nw.jpg&state=PA > > surveyed in 1948. According to it, the wye, and just the wye, was > still there in 1948. > > Interestingly, the newer map at www.topozone.com, surveyed 1971, also > shows track on the wye. I personally find it hard to believe that > there were still two grade crossings on 155 to serve that wye as > recently as 1971. > > But it remains that there appear to have been tracks on that wye long > after the Sinnemahoning Valley/B&S departed that scene. > > ===== > Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Wye at Keating Summit Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:48:23 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Using the wye for turning helpers is certainly a possibility, but in the '90's they ran the helpers over the top and down the other side for the dynamic braking. Helpers stayed on between Emporium and Port Allegheny. But may have turned helpers there in an earlier age. And they don't update those topo maps that often. And it's possible they paved over the rails crossing the highway but left the rest in - although they usually pull up the rails when they abandon trackage. I'm amazed that none of you guys know anything about where they coaled/serviced steam locomotives between Linden and Buffalo. Had to be around Emporium/Keating Summit/Wrights. Haven't seen a thing in all my books, track charts, maps, ETT's, etc. So far, it's a total mystery. Bill Bigler - 4915 Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Shickler" To: Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Wye at Keating Summit > Just a guess, but might the wye have been used for turning helpers? > > Jerry Shickler > Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: > http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:15:19 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Sam: I truly believe that brass is becoming a thing of the past for operating model railroads. There will always be the true collector that wants the detail to be perfect, but then again, many collectors don't run their locos very much. I have a lot of brass and I'd venture to say that most needed some kind of TLC before they'd pass the test for an op session. These BLI engines "run the nuts" right out of the box. There will be some modifications that I will do, such as an additional hole in the drawbar on the M-1's to bring the tender closer, but as far as smoothness of performance goes......the BLI engines are superb. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Vastano" To: ; Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 9:29 AM Subject: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD > Group, > > I have been thinking about how Broadway Limited will effect the price of the > brass locomotives? Any opinions? > > Thanks > > SamV > > _________________________________________________________________ > Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up - fast & reliable Internet access with prime > features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1 > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Park Varieties" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:54:44 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Sam's comments are pretty much right on I believe. However, the one aspeect of the BLI engines that is not proven yet is durability. I am an operator and have a number of Westside and PFM brass that are built like tanks and I am not about to dispose of them until the BLI engines can prove they can stand up to the rigors of normal layout use without mechanical or electronic breakdowns. Frank Brua ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Reynolds" To: "Sam Vastano" ; ; Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD > Sam: > > I truly believe that brass is becoming a thing of the past for operating > model railroads. There will always be the true collector that wants the > detail to be perfect, but then again, many collectors don't run their locos > very much. I have a lot of brass and I'd venture to say that most needed > some kind of TLC before they'd pass the test for an op session. These BLI > engines "run the nuts" right out of the box. There will be some > modifications that I will do, such as an additional hole in the drawbar on > the M-1's to bring the tender closer, but as far as smoothness of > performance goes......the BLI engines are superb. > > Larry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sam Vastano" > To: ; > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 9:29 AM > Subject: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD > > > > Group, > > > > I have been thinking about how Broadway Limited will effect the price of > the > > brass locomotives? Any opinions? > > > > Thanks > > > > SamV > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up - fast & reliable Internet access with > prime > > features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1 > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "SHM" Subject: [PRR] Dominion.Southern & Northern expresses Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:10:34 -0500 Hi all... Speaking of these trains...I know they had E units later on, but what kind of power might you find on them between 1947 and say 1953 ? I'm looking to find what was used between Baltimore and Harrisburg. I'm guessing K's then a switch to E units after 1952 as the Maryland Div. was dieselized after 1952.=20 Til Later Hank Mummert --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 10/22/2003 ------=_NextPart_000_00DC_01C3E440.130F1020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi all...
 
 Speaking of these trains...I know = they had E=20 units
later on, but what kind of power might = you find=20 on
them between 1947 and say 1953 = ?
 
I'm looking to find what was used = between=20 Baltimore
and Harrisburg. I'm guessing K's then a = switch=20 to
E units after 1952 as the Maryland Div. = was=20 dieselized
after 1952.
 
          &nbs= p;            = ;      =20 Til Later
          &nbs= p;            = ;      =20 Hank Mummert
 

---
Outgoing mail is certified = Virus=20 Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: = 6.0.530 /=20 Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: = 10/22/2003
------=_NextPart_000_00DC_01C3E440.130F1020-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Rwo1361@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:24:20 EST Subject: [PRR] fixture for test running I picked up a set of 4 rollers (saddles) at the Timonium show, the dealer was Bear Locomotive Co. the saddles are on this web site. I paid $37.00 They work great. www.bachrus.com. -------------------------------1075163060 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
I picked up a set of 4 rol= lers (saddles) at the Timonium show, the dealer was Bear Locomotive Co. the&= nbsp;saddles are on this web site.  I paid $37.00 They work great. = ;            &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;            = ;            &nb= sp;   
-------------------------------1075163060-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:43:32 -0600 I agree. I bought an old tarnished United for $200, = gritblasted,painted,installed can motor. Runs flawlessly through the = entire club layout. Now that my BLI M1b is here, I probably will move = my Soundtraxx from my Bowser M1 to that loco or an H10 (yeah, I know the = H10 probably needs a Banshee whistle :-)). Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message -----=20 From: KEMACPRR@aol.com=20 $1200 for an I-1 that is going to be run is too much. just my = opinion. ---------Ken McCorry ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C3E43C.4C720F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
I agree.  I bought an old = tarnished United for=20 $200, gritblasted,painted,installed can motor.  Runs flawlessly = through the=20 entire club layout.  Now that my BLI M1b is here, I probably will = move my=20 Soundtraxx from my Bowser M1 to that loco or an H10 (yeah, I know the = H10=20 probably needs a Banshee whistle :-)).
 
Bob Zoeller
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 KEMACPRR@aol.com=20 $1200 = for an I-1=20 that is going to be run is too much.  just my opinion. = ---------Ken=20 McCorry ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C3E43C.4C720F60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] Dominion.Southern & Northern expresses Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:50:03 -0500 To: "SHM" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Jan 26, 2004, at 7:10 PM, SHM wrote: > > =A0Speaking of these trains...I know they had E units > later on, but what kind of power might you find on > them between 1947 and say 1953 ? > =A0 > I'm looking to find what was used between Baltimore > and Harrisburg. I'm guessing K's then a switch to > E units after 1952 as the Maryland Div. was dieselized > after 1952. K4's would have been logical. Might T1's have made an appearance on the Harrisburg-north segment? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "bill pokorny" Subject: [PRR] Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:58:13 -0500 On March 4, 2004 the Delmarva Model railroad club will be having their = annual meeting in Delmar DE. As the outgoing Pres it has fallen upon me = to find a speaker. Soo of course I am looking for a speaker with a PRR = connection. The talk could be on any aspect of railroading or model = railroading. We are a small club with about 25 members so we cannot = afford to pay a great deal. But we can afford to pay the persons = expenses and a small fee. If anyone is interested or knows of someone = who might be please contact me ASAP Billpo@msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C3E446.BB8030D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
On March 4, 2004 the Delmarva Model railroad club will be having = their=20 annual meeting in Delmar DE. As  the outgoing Pres it has fallen = upon me to=20 find a speaker. Soo of course I am looking for a speaker with a PRR = connection.=20 The talk could be on any aspect of railroading or model railroading. We = are a=20 small club with about 25 members so we cannot afford to pay a  = great deal.=20 But we can afford to pay the persons expenses and a small = fee.   If=20 anyone is interested or knows of someone who might be please contact me = ASAP Billpo@msn.com
------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C3E446.BB8030D0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:14:44 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Dominion.Southern & Northern expresses From: Jamie Bothwell In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <30C29C4E-5066-11D8-BD70-000393A994E0@verizon.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out008.verizon.net from [141.158.31.108] at Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:13:56 -0600 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Monday, January 26, 2004, at 07:50 PM, Jerry @ Pennsy wrote: > > Might T1's have made an appearance on the Harrisburg-north segment? There is a scene in a Clarence Weaver film of a pair of Centipede with train up there. Probably not 580/581 though as they were through that area in darkness. Jamie Bothwell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] BLI M-1b......my quick review Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:43:35 -0500 PRR-Gize: I just received my BLI M-1b No. 6738 from Jerry today. I have not run it = yet but here are my comments so far: Overall, I am very satisfied in this engine. I think that BLI added more = separate detail parts from the time they first posted their first = pre-production photos. I did notice that they have separate grab irons = on the smoke box cover. In their pre-production photos, it was molded = on. I believe that a number of us sent in emails about this and it = apparently worked. I think it is a huge improvement. Both the color is = close (weathering should help if it is a tad bit too green) and the = lettering crisp. Now, the bad news......... I was startled when I took out the engine the first time and noticed = that it had the "Beauty Treatment" ( ie: cast pilot, headlight and = generator reversed). While BLI's web site does show now that the M-1a's = are to be produced as delivered and the M-1b's are to be produced in = post-1947 "beauty treatment," BLI was not that clear about this when = they were taking orders back in mid-2003. IIRC, BLI only had = pre-production photos of the M-1a at that time on its website. They did = not specify (in text) as to how each class of engine was to appear. This = is sort of surprising for BLI, a spinoff of Oriental Imports, a brass = manufacturer. Companies like Challenger Imports would always specify as = to exactly what the engine would look like if different versions were to = be made. I'm not disappointed, only surprised. I will move the headlight = on this one since a few M-1b's did have cast on pilots with the original = headlights. It is just that BLI should be more specific (both in photos = and text) as to the versions of engines that they will be producing for = the benefit of customers. Lastly, I am missing a wheel set!! I am missing the wheel set for the = trailing truck. The truck is there, just not the wheel set. From the = looks of it, I think it will snap on. Has anyone run into this before = with BLI? Please don't take this as a negative note. I bought 3 T-1's and I am = very very very happy with them. I am getting more M-1's and planning an = refinancing my home to get some NW-2's, SW-9's and E-7's from them as = well. Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C3E44D.11A5D040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
PRR-Gize:
 
I just received my BLI M-1b No. 6738 from Jerry today. I have not = run it=20 yet but here are my comments so far:
 
Overall, I am very satisfied in this engine. I think that BLI added = more=20 separate detail parts from the time they first posted their first = pre-production=20 photos. I did notice that they have separate grab irons on the smoke box = cover.=20 In their pre-production photos, it was molded on. I believe that a = number=20 of us sent in emails about this and it apparently worked. I think it is = a huge=20 improvement. Both the color is close (weathering should help if it is a = tad bit=20 too green) and the lettering crisp.
 
Now, the bad news.........
 
I was startled when I took out the engine the first time and = noticed that=20 it had the "Beauty Treatment" ( ie: cast pilot, headlight and generator=20 reversed). While BLI's web site does show now that the M-1a's are to be = produced=20 as delivered and the M-1b's are to be produced in post-1947 "beauty = treatment,"=20 BLI was not that clear about this when they were taking orders back in = mid-2003.=20 IIRC, BLI only had pre-production photos of the M-1a at that time on its = website. They did not specify (in text) as to how each class of engine = was to=20 appear. This is sort of surprising for BLI, a spinoff of Oriental = Imports, a=20 brass manufacturer. Companies like Challenger Imports would always = specify as to=20 exactly what the engine would look like if different = versions were to=20 be made. I'm not disappointed, only surprised. I will move the headlight = on this=20 one since a few M-1b's did have cast on pilots with the original=20 headlights. It is just that BLI should be more specific (both = in=20 photos and text) as to the versions of engines that they will be = producing for=20 the benefit of customers.
 
Lastly, I am missing a wheel set!! I am missing the = wheel=20 set for the trailing truck. The truck is there, just not the wheel=20 set. From the looks of it, I think it will=20 snap on. Has anyone run into this before with BLI?
 
Please don't take this as a negative note. I bought 3 T-1's and I = am very=20 very very happy with them. I am getting more M-1's and planning an = refinancing=20 my home to get some NW-2's,  SW-9's and E-7's from them as = well.
 
 
Ted Andrews
Carmel, Indiana
------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C3E44D.11A5D040-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:50:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Brass is going to be here for a long time. There are so many different variations of PRR steam,diesel, and electric locomotives to keep brass companies busy for years to come. And what about PRR's unique freight cars. Some of those cars will never be produced in plastic. The last brass M1 (HO) was about $1400.00. The detail was outstanding. It didn't has sound. And I understand that brass I1s are on the way. I think those brass I1s will sell. My 2 cents worth. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Is there a steam engine doctor in the house? Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:31:37 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, My request is actually 2 fold. 1. For my S Scale list, does anyone have any extra code 148 blind center drivers for the Omnicon PRR M1? Since that is extremely unlikely, lets go to #2. 2. Can anyone remove the code 110 blind driver rims from 2 axles and reinstall 4 code 148 blind driver rims? Again, these are for an S Scale PRR M1. The driver O D is 1.135". You have to deal with the fish paper for proper insulation and be sure they will not wobble. I actually have 2 sets of the code 110 drivers so there is some room for error and a redo. However, I only have 4 code 148 rims. The worst thing that can happen is I keep the all flanged drivers that are already on the model in place. Please reply with an estimated fee. Thanks, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:32:01 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Frank: I couldn't agree with you more. The PFM and Westside have proven themselves very worthy over the years. One of my PFM decapods has been in my possession since 1970 and is still running fine. This old workhorse has many miles of work to it's credit and still sees pusher service at every op session on my rr. And BTW, it only cost $90.00 back then. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Park Varieties" To: "Larry Reynolds" ; "Sam Vastano" ; ; Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 6:54 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD > Sam's comments are pretty much right on I believe. However, the one aspeect > of the > BLI engines that is not proven yet is durability. > I am an operator and have a number of Westside and PFM brass that are built > like tanks and I am not about to dispose of them until the BLI engines can > prove they can stand up to the rigors of normal layout use without > mechanical or electronic breakdowns. > Frank Brua > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry Reynolds" > To: "Sam Vastano" ; ; > > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 6:15 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD > > > > Sam: > > > > I truly believe that brass is becoming a thing of the past for operating > > model railroads. There will always be the true collector that wants the > > detail to be perfect, but then again, many collectors don't run their > locos > > very much. I have a lot of brass and I'd venture to say that most needed > > some kind of TLC before they'd pass the test for an op session. These BLI > > engines "run the nuts" right out of the box. There will be some > > modifications that I will do, such as an additional hole in the drawbar on > > the M-1's to bring the tender closer, but as far as smoothness of > > performance goes......the BLI engines are superb. > > > > Larry > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Sam Vastano" > > To: ; > > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 9:29 AM > > Subject: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD > > > > > > > Group, > > > > > > I have been thinking about how Broadway Limited will effect the price of > > the > > > brass locomotives? Any opinions? > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > SamV > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up - fast & reliable Internet access with > > prime > > > features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1 > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harry Fitch" Subject: [PRR] Brass vs. Plastic Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:02:13 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Return-Path: prrk4s@msn.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jan 2004 03:02:20.0736 (UTC) FILETIME=[FADF5400:01C3E481] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Brass vs. Plastic With all the talk and consideration of plastic models becoming better and with greater choices becoming available it makes one reflect on the viability of brass. IMHO brass is not effected by plastic. The person who purchases brass usually has reasons that go beyond the plastic market and not all are show case collectors. I did purchase a BLI M1b and with the exception of one engine the BLI was more expensive than the five brass class M engines that I have collected. I bought brass with the need to paint, repaint, re-motor or re-gear therefore the better price break. I also purchase to operate not display. I would venture to say that when my BLI plastic engine is sitting on the shelf with my few Rivarossi engines in the future that won't work, my brass engines will still be doing the job. Has anyone looked at how some of the plastic marvels are made? Not so much BLI, just any good looking plastic steam power. It took me three tries to get an Athearn B&O light USRA mike that would run from a local hobby shop. Split gear on drive axle, bad hang-up in valve gear, etc. Has anyone tried to pull anything with this locomotive on anything that looked like a challenging grade? FORGET trying to add additional weight. JUST FORGET IT, it is as fruitless as trying to add weight to the beautiful but won't pull diddly Bachmann K4s of any release. (Thanks fellas, I have three and the oldest out pulls the later by a small margin in my non scientific pull test). The Bachmann on a grade challanged layout does at least make a two car Parkton Local. Bachmann M&PA 4-6-0, It took 2 or 3 to get one that ran out of the store including the one in the display case. I was the first idiot who purchased one and asked to have it tested in the store. I will not take plastic steam out of the store without test running it first. I will carry brass home and think nothing of it. I KNOW I can repair it, add weight to it, regear it, decoder it, etc. I do not need a secret handshake from some secret society to take it apart and I will not have to pry the tender shell off with large amounts of tension?! I have an OLD Akane M&PA 2-8-0 that I can solder things on to, it has real screws, a real gearbox, a wireless drawbar instead of a piece of trash reject wire harness that lifts the tender off the track. It is durable. I can run it and still give it to my kids long after the Bachmann has gone to Luria Bros. for Scrap. My PFM M&PA #43 that is remotored and equipped with a flywheel, torque arm and TCS decoder. It runs like a Hamilton watch. It eats plastic. I paid less than $200.00 for it because it was a cruelty case. Running gear was nearly perfect but some *(#@&#(&$#$ idiot drilled a app 1/8" hole though the center of the headlight and smoke box and center mounted the headlight! I could hear it's mournful cries and I repaired it before I went to bed the night I brought it home. Compare this price to plastic. It's a no brainer! The catch is, you have to be able to do the work yourself or any or all savings are negated. This may lead one to think, why should a person have to or ever want to add weight, regear or remotor a model. I will want to stop having the capabilities to do this the day the manufacturers get it right!!! The next thing is I will stop wanting to be able to do this when mechanical things no longer fail or wear out. There have been some winners out there in the plastic field, i.e. Bachmann HO shay and brass losers i.e. Alco Models PRR E5 by Kobra. The good news is there is something for everyone. (Even Penn Central fans! just kidding, no hate mail please) There are a lot of things that I will not pretend to know about brass or plastic steam locomotive models. I am not the buyer of $2,500.00 brass models. But I should sure would like to get anything steam out of the box with an legitimate operable front coupler on it! Now I am awaiting delivery of my BLI, Great Northern, Glacier Park Green, M1b Mountain without operating front coupler! (This is one persons opinion and you know the saying, everyone has an opinion) Harry Fitch prrk4s@msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 00:39:02 -0500 From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." Subject: [PRR] PRR Whistle Sounds (was: Re: PRR Brass VS BLI) Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: --On Monday, January 26, 2004 19:51 -0500 "Bob Zoeller" wrote: > Now that my BLI M1b is here, I probably will move > my Soundtraxx from my Bowser M1 to that loco or an H10 (yeah, I know the > H10 probably needs a Banshee whistle :-)). _IF_ (pray God) BLI or some other firm that has a Saul of Tarsus experience re: Pennsy Steam for model-railroaders-not-collectors deigns to market a TRULY NEEDED H-class loco with DC/DCC sound, is there such a resource as an clean audio recording of a Banshee whistle? And at what point did those whistles stop being applied? L1? I1? FWIW, on the soundtrack of the Ore Train video, the sound of a shrill, possibly "banshee" whistle, is dubbed over ONE scene of an I1 whistling for a grade crossing. Vagel Keller Pittsburgh PS: Memo for BLI. Find a way to fit that Quantum System in a small tender. Think "Field of Dreams" when it comes to the Pennsy. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Rea" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 23:58:07 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: OK, while we are at this, my PFM/United Ma&Pa 2-8-0 is runs like a dream. My wife gave it to me for Xmas in 1962! It cost $37.50. It has had 43 years of service, many as my only loco!. Will my BLI locos last that long? I doubt it....but I'm 65 now, so that is not my problem. Fred Rea ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Reynolds" To: "Park Varieties" ; "Sam Vastano" ; ; Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 8:32 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD > Frank: > > I couldn't agree with you more. The PFM and Westside have proven themselves > very worthy over the years. One of my PFM decapods has been in my > possession since 1970 and is still running fine. This old workhorse has > many miles of work to it's credit and still sees pusher service at every op > session on my rr. And BTW, it only cost $90.00 back then. > > Larry > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Park Varieties" > To: "Larry Reynolds" ; "Sam Vastano" > ; ; > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 6:54 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD > > > > Sam's comments are pretty much right on I believe. However, the one > aspeect > > of the > > BLI engines that is not proven yet is durability. > > I am an operator and have a number of Westside and PFM brass that are > built > > like tanks and I am not about to dispose of them until the BLI engines can > > prove they can stand up to the rigors of normal layout use without > > mechanical or electronic breakdowns. > > Frank Brua > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Larry Reynolds" > > To: "Sam Vastano" ; ; > > > > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 6:15 PM > > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD > > > > > > > Sam: > > > > > > I truly believe that brass is becoming a thing of the past for operating > > > model railroads. There will always be the true collector that wants the > > > detail to be perfect, but then again, many collectors don't run their > > locos > > > very much. I have a lot of brass and I'd venture to say that most > needed > > > some kind of TLC before they'd pass the test for an op session. These > BLI > > > engines "run the nuts" right out of the box. There will be some > > > modifications that I will do, such as an additional hole in the drawbar > on > > > the M-1's to bring the tender closer, but as far as smoothness of > > > performance goes......the BLI engines are superb. > > > > > > Larry > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Sam Vastano" > > > To: ; > > > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 9:29 AM > > > Subject: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD > > > > > > > > > > Group, > > > > > > > > I have been thinking about how Broadway Limited will effect the price > of > > > the > > > > brass locomotives? Any opinions? > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > SamV > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up - fast & reliable Internet access with > > > prime > > > > features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Rea" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 00:05:44 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Replying to my own post with an after thought. Ten to one seems about right for inflation from the early 60s to now. That makes my PFM loco about $375 in today's dollars. Very in line with BLI prices, but not todays brass. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Rea" To: "Larry Reynolds" ; "Park Varieties" ; "Sam Vastano" ; ; Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD > OK, while we are at this, my PFM/United Ma&Pa 2-8-0 is runs like a dream. > My wife gave it to me for Xmas in 1962! It cost $37.50. It has had 43 > years of service, many as my only loco!. > > Will my BLI locos last that long? I doubt it....but I'm 65 now, so that is > not my problem. > > Fred Rea > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry Reynolds" > To: "Park Varieties" ; "Sam Vastano" > ; ; > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 8:32 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD > > > > Frank: > > > > I couldn't agree with you more. The PFM and Westside have proven > themselves > > very worthy over the years. One of my PFM decapods has been in my > > possession since 1970 and is still running fine. This old workhorse has > > many miles of work to it's credit and still sees pusher service at every > op > > session on my rr. And BTW, it only cost $90.00 back then. > > > > Larry > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Whistle Sounds (was: Re: PRR Brass VS BLI) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 00:17:29 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: My understanding has always been that any multichime whistles L1s or I1s had were replacements in later years from retired passenger locos. I await one of the gurus of the list who can set me straight if that understanding is in error. Dunno if M1s had the multichime from the get-go. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." is there such a resource as an > clean audio recording of a Banshee whistle? And at what point did those > whistles stop being applied? L1? I1? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 01:18:24 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Wye at Keating Summit In a message dated 1/26/04 5:00:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, wbigler@stny.rr.com writes: > I'm amazed that none of you guys know anything about where they > coaled/serviced steam locomotives between Linden and Buffalo. Had to be > around Emporium/Keating Summit/Wrights. Haven't seen a thing in all my > books, track charts, maps, ETT's, etc. So far, it's a total mystery. > > One of the PRR video's I have has a K-4 at the Emporium engine facility. The helpers were I-1's until the RS-3 came upon the scene. Order # S-3218 shipped November 1953 for units 8435-8438 and 8445 were the Keating helpers. So the wye was probably used until late 1953 to turn the I-1's. ---------- Ken McCorry --part1_12b.3a283a6c.2d475cb0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message=20= dated 1/26/04 5:00:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, wbigler@stny.rr.com writes:


I'm amazed that none of you= guys know anything about where they
coaled/serviced steam locomotives between Linden and Buffalo.  Had=20= to be
around Emporium/Keating Summit/Wrights.  Haven't seen a thing in al= l my
books, track charts, maps, ETT's, etc.  So far, it's a total myster= y.



One of the PRR video's I have has a K-4 at the Emporium engine facility.= The helpers were I-1's until the RS-3 came upon the scene. Order # S-3218 s= hipped November 1953 for units 8435-8438 and 8445 were the Keating helpers.=20= So the wye was probably used until late 1953 to turn the I-1's. ---------- &= nbsp;Ken McCorry --part1_12b.3a283a6c.2d475cb0_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 02:51:49 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Whistle Sounds Bob: While not an expert, this is in-line from what I recently read in the book "set up running" (an excellent book for PRR fans). The book said the M1s did not have the multichime until shopped (all M1a's and M1b's did). Once again, that's not first hand evidence, but relatively reliable. Jeff Warner Bob Zoeller wrote: >My understanding has always been that any multichime whistles L1s or I1s >had were replacements in later years from retired passenger locos. I await >one of the gurus of the list who can set me straight if that understanding >is in error. Dunno if M1s had the multichime from the get-go. > >Bob Zoeller > > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." > is there such a resource as an > > >>clean audio recording of a Banshee whistle? And at what point did those >>whistles stop being applied? L1? I1? >> >> > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > --------------070908080904090107020708 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Bob:

While not an expert, this is in-line from what I recently read in the book "set up running" (an excellent book for PRR fans).  The book said the M1s did not have the multichime until shopped (all M1a's and M1b's did).  Once again, that's not first hand evidence, but relatively reliable.

Jeff Warner

Bob Zoeller wrote:
My understanding has always been that any multichime whistles L1s or I1s
had were replacements in later years from retired passenger locos.  I await
one of the gurus of the list who can set me straight if that understanding
is in error. Dunno if M1s had the multichime from the get-go.

Bob Zoeller

 ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." <vck@andrew.cmu.edu>
 is there such a resource as an
  
clean audio recording of a Banshee whistle?  And at what point did those
whistles stop being applied?  L1?  I1?
    



-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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--------------070908080904090107020708-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 07:51:13 -0500 >From: "Park Varieties" >Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD >Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:54:44 -0500 >From: "Larry Reynolds" >Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD > > From: "Sam Vastano" > > Subject: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Whistle Sounds Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 07:22:15 -0600 Jeff, I shoulda thought of that book for some info. I read it some time = ago and had forgotten. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jeff Warner=20 While not an expert, this is in-line from what I recently read in the = book "set up running" (an excellent book for PRR fans). The book said = the M1s did not have the multichime until shopped (all M1a's and M1b's = did). ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C3E4A6.4A28FC90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Jeff, I shoulda thought of that book = for some=20 info.  I read it some time ago and had forgotten.
 
Bob Zoeller
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Jeff = Warner=20 While not an expert, this is in-line from what I recently read = in the=20 book "set up running" (an excellent book for PRR fans).  The book = said=20 the M1s did not have the multichime until shopped (all M1a's and M1b's = did). 
------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C3E4A6.4A28FC90-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: [PRR] Free to a good home - Bound volumes of Cinders Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:05:55 -0500 All: This is a bit off topic, but I have available, free to a good home, four bound volumes of the Philadelphia Chapter NRHS monthly publication "CINDERS". For those of you in the Philadelphia area you will know that it is one of the premier monthly newsletters in terms of thoroughness of news coverage. There are frequent flashbacks into the PRR era of Philadelphia history. I will make them available off list to anyone willing to pay the $10 or so postage. Volume 1 December 1976 to October 1978 Volume 2 Summer 1983 to November 1984 Volume 3 September 1987 to January 1990 Volume 4 September 1998 to November 2001 In the event I get multiple replies, I will hold an auction if necessary. Please contact me off list at bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com Thanks much Bill Volkmer ------=_NextPart_000_0074_01C3E4B4.C60294D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Message
All:
 
This = is a bit off=20 topic, but I have available, free to a good home,  four bound = volumes of=20 the Philadelphia Chapter NRHS monthly publication "CINDERS".  For = those of=20 you in the Philadelphia area you will know that it is one of the premier = monthly=20 newsletters in terms of thoroughness of news coverage.   There = are=20 frequent flashbacks into the PRR era of Philadelphia=20 history.
 
I will = make them=20 available off list to anyone willing to pay the $10 or so=20 postage.
 
Volume = 1 =20 December 1976 to October 1978
 
Volume = 2 =20 Summer 1983 to November 1984
 
Volume = 3 September=20 1987 to January 1990
 
Volume = 4 =20 September 1998 to November 2001
 
In the = event I get=20 multiple replies, I will hold an auction if = necessary.
 
Please = contact me=20 off list at bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com=
 
Thanks = much
 
Bill=20 Volkmer
------=_NextPart_000_0074_01C3E4B4.C60294D0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:05:06 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Sam, I picked up a an old Gem J1 a few years ago. Remotored it for DCC. It stumbles a little on our club layout which has bad trackwork in certain weather, but I believe my grandchildren will be able to dust it off 20 years from now and it will run. Same with that PFM United I1 I remotered. And I completely dissassembled that I1 for painting and put it back together without a hitch. Beautifully made. In fairness, I like the construction of the BLI locos as to repairability, with the exception of the blankety-blank tender shell that won't come off. Changing drivers, removing boards for lubrication, etc, are all straightforward. That will all be for nothing, of course, if no replacement parts are ever available. That is the key question. It does have good pulling power as well. And the combination of middle drivers with vertical sprung flexibility and end drivers with good lateral movement makes the T1 tolerate reasonable variations in trackwork for a duplex. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Vastano" > I have the same concerns about Broadway. How will they hold up? Will the > electronics fail in a year or two? I just purchased a used J1 in Brass and > have been pondering if I should have waited for the Broadway Ltd version? I > really don't care if it has sound I just know this brass peice has been > around since the 60's will the Broadway's be around that long? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] BLI T1 Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:19:52 -0600 Couple questions, comments. In changing out drivers on this loco, is there any way besides an = ohmeter to figure out the insulated side of these driver sets? Also, has = anyone figured out the wiring of this loco,that is, does loco pick up RH = rail only. I believe the tender picks up both as the sound is active = when loco and tender are disconnected. I note that the stack is a dual stack. I was under the impression that = only the two prototypes had this feature and the production models had a = single large stack. True or false? Bob Zoeller ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C3E4B6.B89B9290 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Couple  questions, = comments.
 
In changing out drivers on this loco, = is there any=20 way besides an ohmeter to figure out the insulated side of these driver = sets?=20 Also, has anyone figured out the wiring of this loco,that is, does loco = pick up=20 RH rail only.  I believe the tender picks up both as the sound is = active=20 when loco and tender are disconnected.
 
I note that the stack is a dual = stack.  I was=20 under the impression that only the two prototypes had this feature and = the=20 production models had a single large stack.  True or = false?
 
Bob Zoeller
------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C3E4B6.B89B9290-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Tom Kane Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI M-1b......my quick review Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 07:46:02 -0800 From: Ted Andrews [mailto:Ted_Andrews@msn.com] Subject: [PRR] BLI M-1b......my quick review Message
Listers,
 
I too received my M1a from Jerry=20 yesterday.  I did notice that the cab roof color and tender deck = color are=20 different.  The tender deck is much brighter.  The cab roof = looks=20 correct (FCC) to my eye.  I had not heard anyone comment on this=20 before.  Any others with this?
 
Tom Kane
-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Andrews=20 [mailto:Ted_Andrews@msn.com]
Sent: Monday, January 26, = 2004 8:44=20 PM
To: PRR Talk
Subject: [PRR] BLI M-1b......my = quick=20 review

PRR-Gize:
 
I just received my BLI M-1b No. 6738 from Jerry today. I have = not run it=20 yet but here are my comments so far:
 
Overall, I am very satisfied in this engine. I think that BLI = added more=20 separate detail parts from the time they first posted their first=20 pre-production photos. I did notice that they have separate grab = irons on the=20 smoke box cover. In their pre-production photos, it was = molded on. I=20 believe that a number of us sent in emails about this and it = apparently=20 worked. I think it is a huge improvement. Both the color is close = (weathering=20 should help if it is a tad bit too green) and the lettering = crisp.
 
Now, the bad news.........
 
I was startled when I took out the engine the first time and = noticed that=20 it had the "Beauty Treatment" ( ie: cast pilot, headlight and = generator=20 reversed). While BLI's web site does show now that the M-1a's are to = be=20 produced as delivered and the M-1b's are to be produced in post-1947 = "beauty=20 treatment," BLI was not that clear about this when they were taking = orders=20 back in mid-2003. IIRC, BLI only had pre-production photos of the = M-1a at that=20 time on its website. They did not specify (in text) as to how each = class of=20 engine was to appear. This is sort of surprising for BLI, a spinoff = of=20 Oriental Imports, a brass manufacturer. Companies like Challenger = Imports=20 would always specify as to exactly what the engine would look = like if=20 different versions were to be made. I'm not disappointed, only = surprised.=20 I will move the headlight on this one since a few M-1b's did = have cast on=20 pilots with the original headlights. It is just that BLI should=20 be more specific (both in photos and text) as to the versions of = engines=20 that they will be producing for the benefit of customers.
 
Lastly, I am missing a wheel set!! I am missing = the wheel=20 set for the trailing truck. The truck is there, just not the wheel=20 set. From the looks of it, I think it will=20 snap on. Has anyone run into this before with BLI?
 
Please don't take this as a negative note. I bought 3 T-1's and = I am very=20 very very happy with them. I am getting more M-1's and planning an = refinancing=20 my home to get some NW-2's,  SW-9's and E-7's from them as = well.
 
 
Ted Andrews
Carmel, Indiana
------_=_NextPart_001_01C3E4EC.AA7CDB70-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 11:18:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI M-1b......my quick review MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Tom, Actually this cab roof color and the tender deck color is correct in certain ways. You need to read the special publication on the "Painting of PRR Locomotives and Tenders". It was published by the PRRT&HS back in the late 60's or early 70's. It may be available again as a reprint, not sure. In a nut shell it states: Freight Car Color---Tender Decks..... Mixture of 3 Parts Freight Car Color and one part Black--- Steel Cabs, Roof above rain gutter (repainting when only one coat is applied). MIxture of equal parts Freight Car Color and Black--- Steel Cabs, Roof above rain gutters (new cabs and repainting when 2 or 3 coats applied) These instructions are for Oct 1929. Wood cab were treated a bit differently. The article goes into more detail regarding paint on the whole locomotive. So, depending on the 2 shades of FCC on the M1a and b's, this will determine what the cab and tender deck is suppose to represent. Me, I will paint the cab roof black and weather the tender deck heavily to represent the M!b's of the later era.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI M-1b......my quick review Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:29:49 +0000 >From: Tom Kane >Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI M-1b......my quick review >Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 07:46:02 -0800 >From: Ted Andrews [mailto:Ted_Andrews@msn.com] >Subject: [PRR] BLI M-1b......my quick review From: Tom Kane Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI M-1b......my quick review Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 08:32:33 -0800 From: mittner@webtv.net [mailto:mittner@webtv.net] Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI M-1b......my quick review Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 11:17:31 -0600 Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI M-1b......my quick review From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On Tuesday, January 27, 2004, at 09:46 AM, Tom Kane wrote: > Listers, > =A0 > I too received my M1a from Jerry yesterday.=A0 I did notice that the = cab=20 > roof color and tender deck color are different.=A0 The tender deck is=20= > much brighter.=A0 The cab roof looks correct (FCC) to my eye.=A0 I had = not=20 > heard anyone comment on this before.=A0 Any others with this? Gary (beating me at the keyboard) wrote > Actually this cab roof color and the tender deck color is correct=20= > in > certain ways. You need to read the special publication on the = "Painting > of PRR Locomotives and Tenders". It was published by the PRRT&HS back=20= > in > the late 60's or early 70's. It may be available again as a reprint,=20= > not > sure. In a nut shell it states: > Freight Car Color---Tender Decks..... > Mixture of 3 Parts Freight Car Color and one part Black--- Steel > Cabs, Roof above rain gutter (repainting when only one coat is=20 > applied). > Mixture of equal parts Freight Car Color and Black--- Steel Cabs, > Roof above rain gutters (new cabs and repainting when 2 or 3 coats > applied) > > These instructions are for Oct 1929. The bottom line is that Broadway thought that the 1929 paint=20 instructions should be followed (and it appears applied these to the J1=20= as well) for 1950's era steamers. In addition, their expert has his=20 own opinion of what DGLE and FCC looked like. In reality, the M1A/B=20 body is too green, the roof not black enough and the deck too red (the=20= roof color would be good on the tender deck!) Note that the T1 deck=20 color suffered the same issues. The good news is that, at least in my=20= lights last night, the buff lettering looked pretty good! I too got my M1As last night, and one of the first things I did was=20 look at the tender since I will need to remove the trainphone on all of=20= mine. After taking out the two screws and easily getting the shell=20 off, I gently pulled out the trainphone wire and the ladder. I saw=20 that the tender deck was a separate piece, fitted from the top, and=20 removed it with gentle pressure from the bottom. Likewise, all the=20 stanchions and other parts are pressure fits, not glued, and the slope=20= sheet is also a separate piece! So, for repainting, you can take it=20 all apart and not worry. This makes me wonder about is if we will see=20= other tenders (ie passenger, w/no doghouse or earlier freight tenders)=20= since all that would need to be changed is this one piece! Most likely=20= I will make one "master" for the deck and then cast replacement decks=20 for mine in resin which can then be attached by screws from the bottom.=20= I'm sure that about the time I finish, BLI will announce the other=20 versions... BTW, overall, a very nice model. Lots of molded on detail that could=20 have been separate, but a fair amount of separate detail as well, and=20 it looks very nice. A very good deal for the price. Look for a review=20= of the T1 in the February TKM and a review of the M1 in the March TKM. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin=20 Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-2-279887440 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tuesday, January 27, 2004, at 09:46 AM, Tom Kane wrote: Listers, =A0 I too received my M1a from Jerry yesterday.=A0 I did notice that the cab roof color and tender deck color are different.=A0 The tender deck is much brighter.=A0 The cab roof looks correct (FCC) to my eye.=A0 I had = not heard anyone comment on this before.=A0 Any others with this? Gary (beating me at the keyboard) wrote=20 Actually this cab roof color and the tender deck color is correct in certain ways. You need to read the special publication on the "Painting of PRR Locomotives and Tenders". It was published by the PRRT&HS back in the late 60's or early 70's. It may be available again as a reprint, not sure. In a nut shell it states: =20 Freight Car Color---Tender Decks..... Mixture of 3 Parts Freight Car Color and one part Black--- Steel Cabs, Roof above rain gutter (repainting when only one coat is applied). Mixture of equal parts Freight Car Color and Black--- Steel Cabs, Roof above rain gutters (new cabs and repainting when 2 or 3 coats applied) These instructions are for Oct 1929.=20 The bottom line is that Broadway thought that the 1929 paint instructions should be followed (and it appears applied these to the J1 as well) for 1950's era steamers. In addition, their expert has his own opinion of what DGLE and FCC looked like. In reality, the M1A/B body is too green, the roof not black enough and the deck too red (the roof color would be good on the tender deck!) Note that the T1 deck color suffered the same issues. The good news is that, at least in my lights last night, the buff lettering looked pretty good!=20 I too got my M1As last night, and one of the first things I did was look at the tender since I will need to remove the trainphone on all of mine. After taking out the two screws and easily getting the shell off, I gently pulled out the trainphone wire and the ladder. I saw that the tender deck was a separate piece, fitted from the top, and removed it with gentle pressure from the bottom. Likewise, all the stanchions and other parts are pressure fits, not glued, and the slope sheet is also a separate piece! So, for repainting, you can take it all apart and not worry. This makes me wonder about is if we will see other tenders (ie passenger, w/no doghouse or earlier freight tenders) since all that would need to be changed is this one piece! Most likely I will make one "master" for the deck and then cast replacement decks for mine in resin which can then be attached by screws from the bottom. I'm sure that about the time I finish, BLI will announce the other versions... BTW, overall, a very nice model. Lots of molded on detail that could have been separate, but a fair amount of separate detail as well, and it looks very nice. A very good deal for the price. Look for a review of the T1 in the February TKM and a review of the M1 in the March TKM. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. =20 Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-2-279887440-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: [PRR] Circa 1900 photo Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 13:29:30 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-MDRemoteIP: 192.0.1.150 X-Return-Path: geshick@velocity.net X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: prr-talk@dsop.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: A couple months ago I was looking through old photos in an antique store in Westfield NY. I came across (& purchased) the following photo of a G(3? - can't make out the number) and an NA or NB cabin. It appeared to be from a private collection, and not a reprint. The owner of the shop believe it was taken nearby. If you can give any more info about it, or have seen it somewhere before, please do tell. http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/images/g_and_n.jpg ----- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eSCM-MailFrom: From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: [PRR] Creating the PRR FS16m (H-16-44) in HO Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:21:43 -0800 Creating the PRR FS16m (H-16-44) in HO

Rob and all;

In terms of creating the PRR FS16m from the Atlas = model, I did some more looking and found out that you and the Erie = (DL&W) folks were right about the changes needed to the shell = before it resembles a PRR unit.  It does appear that the cab sides = have the flared extension that runs down either side next to the cab = end doors/windows.  While this certainly appears to be a feature = of the earlier H-15-44 models, which had a lot of these little = stylistic features, it does not appear to be a feature of the PRR 1951 = versions, which also had deleted rounded cab side end windows (too bad, = too....very cool).

It also appears that you can fix this with a sanding = stick, a good eye, and a healthy dose of patience.  I have not = determined how this will affect the handrail tie-in, as it does come = close to the end of the cab side.  Perhaps penciling in the = vertical line of the cab side would provide a guide for the sanding = effort.  Careful touch-up of the exposed plastic is in = order.

The FS16m also has those vented covers that cover the = dual screened grilles "two in" from the cab on both sides of = the long hood.  I did an FS12m conversion a few years ago, and on = a second look, you can do the same thing I did on that one.  These = can absolutely be sawn out of an Athearn Trainmaster shell, sanded = thin, and overlain on the existing grille work.  If there is any = objectionable stand-off, you could shave off some of the rim detail to = get it to lie flatter.  Wow, we dodged the bullet on that = one!  Making louvers stinks!

Adding the equipment boxes will be tougher. We need = duplicate walkway grid material for the top and step, plus material for = the sides.  I suppose you could make masters and cast them, but = this seems to be a more involved issue.  I also did this on an = FS20 I did a few years ago, and I think I ended up using screening for = the grid material.  Plus, .010 sheet for the sides, steps, and top = of the box.  Of course, you will have to prepare the area in back = of each box by shaving down the doors to the appropriate height and = adding new latches and all.  I think you can mask and spray = without repainting the whole shell.

The little touches will include putting the sanding = doors on the cab sides (little rectangles of styrene sheet/strip); the = charging outlets on the side (maybe DA MU receptacles re-shaped?); the = MU connections on the end sill above the long grab; and changing out = the headlight assemblies for dual beam units (DA part?).

But, with all this good news, the hold up:
No antennae!  A must have spotting feature of = these units!  Ouch!  So, can we all write to the folks at = Bowser/Cal-Scale and request they do the antenna set?  And say, = please?  You can beg if you want....I will.  Then we are = set!

Oh, BTW, these guys were usually found in Cresson = during the fifties, but they moved west on coal trains, at least into = the eastern Ohio area.  Maybe they used Cresson-area coal at the = Ohio mills?  There are certainly enough photos of them at = Dennison, for one.  Plus, I have photos of them at Conway in the = early sixties drilling cars and making transfers below the hump, plus = they were absolutely at Pitcairn in ~'65 or so, doing trimming work and = transfers.  I understand the survivors went west right before the = end.  One made it to PC.  What cool units.

Hope you're having fun!  I am!

Elden

------_=_NextPart_001_01C3E4FA.08AF02B0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1 road test Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 11:43:36 -0500 Patrick Grace wrote: Does that mean we will get an H? One can only hope! Remember, everyone needs Consolidations! Ben Hom ------=_NextPart_000_00C9_01C3E4CA.CCCFC100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Patrick Grace wrote:
Does that mean we will get an = H?
 
One can only hope!  Remember, = everyone needs=20 Consolidations!
 
 
Ben Hom
------=_NextPart_000_00C9_01C3E4CA.CCCFC100-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI M-1b......my quick review Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:26:06 -0600 Hi Bruce--Since you have had the tender apart, is the doghouse removable = or part of the deck casting? For those of us stuck in the 50's, a few = M1b's could be seen with a three man doghouse (Calscale 190-452) on = their 210F75 tenders. =20 I don't have mine yet but Santa is making a belated stop this weekend. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_00AD_01C3E4E1.8058E5B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Bruce--Since you have had the tender = apart, is=20 the doghouse removable or part of the deck casting?  For those of = us stuck=20 in the 50's, a few M1b's could be seen with a three man doghouse = (Calscale=20 190-452) on their 210F75 tenders. 
 
I don't have mine yet but Santa is = making a belated=20 stop this weekend.
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
------=_NextPart_000_00AD_01C3E4E1.8058E5B0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:08:51 EST Subject: [PRR] M-1 tender question I know that the M-1a's were built with the 210F75 as offered by BLI. The M-1's were originally built with short tanks and later most were converted to 210F75's or the 8 wheel truck version. Question is where any of the M-1a/b's equipted with the larger welded 8 wheel truck tenders later in their life. After looking inside the tender of one of my M-1b's and seing how I happen to have a few old PFM coast to coast tanks laying around I was thinking of doing some tender swaps. ------- Ken McCorry --part1_150.2976d330.2d482d63_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" I know that t= he M-1a's were built with the 210F75 as offered by BLI. The M-1's were origi= nally built with short tanks and later most were converted to 210F75's or th= e 8 wheel truck version. Question is where any of the M-1a/b's equipted with= the larger welded 8 wheel truck tenders later in their life. After looking=20= inside the tender of one of my M-1b's and seing how I happen to have a few o= ld PFM coast to coast tanks laying around I was thinking of doing some tende= r swaps. ------- Ken McCorry --part1_150.2976d330.2d482d63_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:19:12 -0800 (PST) From: Frank Smith Subject: [PRR] Trail Blazer From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 17:27:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1 tender question MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Ken, There are some photos of M1s with the eight wheel welded tender in "Classic Power No.8, M1- Dual Service Mountains. Hope this helps. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 17:50:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1 tender question MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Ken, Any M1a/b's with the huge 8 wheel 210f75a tenders? I wanna say no. Seems these were only used on M1's. I can't come up with anything in print or photo proof showing this happened. Don't know if the PRR experimented with it or not. You would almost think it would show up in photos, but dosn't appear so. I need to dig deep into the photo stash....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 15:52:15 -0600 Subject: :Re: [PRR] BLI M-1b......my quick review From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On Tuesday, January 27, 2004, at 02:26 PM, STEPHEN HOXIE wrote: > Hi Bruce--Since you have had the tender apart, is the doghouse=20 > removable or part of the deck casting?=A0 For those of us stuck in the=20= > 50's, a few M1b's could be seen with a three man doghouse (Calscale=20 > 190-452) on their 210F75 tenders.=A0 Removable. I don't think that the well is however, so you may have a=20 little work re-arranging that area. =A0 > I don't have mine yet but Santa is making a belated stop this weekend. Enjoy Happy Rails Bruce --Apple-Mail-6-296370993 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tuesday, January 27, 2004, at 02:26 PM, STEPHEN HOXIE wrote: ArialHi Bruce--Since you have had the tender apart, is the doghouse removable or part of the deck casting?=A0 For those of us stuck in the 50's, a few M1b's could be seen with a three man doghouse (Calscale 190-452) on their 210F75 tenders.=A0 Removable. I don't think that the well is however, so you may have a little work re-arranging that area. =A0 ArialI don't have mine yet but Santa is making a belated stop this = weekend. Enjoy < Happy Rails Bruce --Apple-Mail-6-296370993-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 18:30:47 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Sam: Yes, I have the some of the same concerns. Here's how I look at this issue. I have just purchased two beautiful BLI T-1's and two M-1's for a grant total of $1,056.00. If three of them go sour, I'm still ahead of the game if I'd gone out and purchased a new Samhongsa T-1. And if all of them fail, well, I guess I just gambled and lost. I still have my brass T-1's and M-1's to run. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Vastano" To: ; ; ; Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 7:51 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD > Larry, > > I have the same concerns about Broadway. How will they hold up? Will the > electronics fail in a year or two? I just purchased a used J1 in Brass and > have been pondering if I should have waited for the Broadway Ltd version? I > really don't care if it has sound I just know this brass peice has been > around since the 60's will the Broadway's be around that long? > > > SamV > > > > > > > > > >From: "Park Varieties" > >To: "Larry Reynolds" , "Sam Vastano" > >, , > > > >Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD > >Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:54:44 -0500 > > > >Sam's comments are pretty much right on I believe. However, the one > >aspeect > >of the > >BLI engines that is not proven yet is durability. > >I am an operator and have a number of Westside and PFM brass that are > >built > >like tanks and I am not about to dispose of them until the BLI engines can > >prove they can stand up to the rigors of normal layout use without > >mechanical or electronic breakdowns. > >Frank Brua > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Larry Reynolds" > >To: "Sam Vastano" ; ; > > > >Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 6:15 PM > >Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD > > > > > > > Sam: > > > > > > I truly believe that brass is becoming a thing of the past for operating > > > model railroads. There will always be the true collector that wants the > > > detail to be perfect, but then again, many collectors don't run their > >locos > > > very much. I have a lot of brass and I'd venture to say that most > >needed > > > some kind of TLC before they'd pass the test for an op session. These > >BLI > > > engines "run the nuts" right out of the box. There will be some > > > modifications that I will do, such as an additional hole in the drawbar > >on > > > the M-1's to bring the tender closer, but as far as smoothness of > > > performance goes......the BLI engines are superb. > > > > > > Larry > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Sam Vastano" > > > To: ; > > > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 9:29 AM > > > Subject: [PRR] PRR Brass VS Broadway LTD > > > > > > > > > > Group, > > > > > > > > I have been thinking about how Broadway Limited will effect the price > >of > > > the > > > > brass locomotives? Any opinions? > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > SamV > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up - fast & reliable Internet access with > > > prime > > > > features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > > > La > > _________________________________________________________________ > Find high-speed 'net deals - comparison-shop your local providers here. > https://broadband.msn.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1 road test Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 18:43:37 -0500 Actually, the expression is, "You can never have enough H's. Larry ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Benjamin Frank Hom=20 To: pgrace@aspects.net=20 Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 11:43 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1 road test Patrick Grace wrote: Does that mean we will get an H? One can only hope! Remember, everyone needs Consolidations! Ben Hom ------=_NextPart_000_00B4_01C3E505.799E71D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Actually, the expression is, "You can never have = enough=20 H's.  <G>
 
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Benjamin=20 Frank Hom
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 = 11:43=20 AM
Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1 road = test

Patrick Grace wrote:
Does that mean we will get an = H?
 
One can only hope!  Remember, = everyone=20 needs Consolidations!
 
 
Ben = Hom
------=_NextPart_000_00B4_01C3E505.799E71D0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] M-1 road test Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 18:50:29 -0500 Re: Does that mean we will get an H? One can only hope! Remember, everyone needs Consolidations! In large numbers. Al ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C3E506.6F3ED8A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Message
Re:  Does that=20 mean we will get an H?=20 One can = only=20 hope!  Remember, everyone needs Consolidations! 
 
In large = numbers.
 
Al 
 
------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C3E506.6F3ED8A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1 tender question Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 18:52:41 -0500 Ken: In the Herron Rail video, "Pennsylvania Railroad Altoona Area" there is = a scene of a M-1 a or b negotiating the Y at Tyrone. This engine has = four wheel trucks with a welded tank. As a side note, I'd like to see BLI also offer the 250P75 tender. Larry ----- Original Message -----=20 From: KEMACPRR@aol.com=20 To: PRR-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 4:08 PM Subject: [PRR] M-1 tender question I know that the M-1a's were built with the 210F75 as offered by BLI. = The M-1's were originally built with short tanks and later most were = converted to 210F75's or the 8 wheel truck version. Question is where = any of the M-1a/b's equipted with the larger welded 8 wheel truck = tenders later in their life. After looking inside the tender of one of = my M-1b's and seing how I happen to have a few old PFM coast to coast = tanks laying around I was thinking of doing some tender swaps. ------- = Ken McCorry ------=_NextPart_000_00CA_01C3E506.BE2CD700 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Ken:
 
In the Herron Rail video, = "Pennsylvania=20 Railroad Altoona Area"  there is a scene of a M-1 a or b = negotiating=20 the Y at Tyrone.  This engine has four wheel trucks with a welded=20 tank.
 
As a side note, I'd like to see = BLI also offer=20 the 250P75 tender.
 
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 KEMACPRR@aol.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 = 4:08=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] M-1 tender = question

I know that=20 the M-1a's were built with the 210F75 as offered by BLI. The M-1's = were=20 originally built with short tanks and later most were converted to = 210F75's or=20 the 8 wheel truck version. Question is where any of the M-1a/b's = equipted with=20 the larger welded 8 wheel truck tenders later in their life. After = looking=20 inside the tender of one of my M-1b's and seing how I happen to have a = few old=20 PFM coast to coast tanks laying around I was thinking of doing some = tender=20 swaps. ------- Ken McCorry ------=_NextPart_000_00CA_01C3E506.BE2CD700-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "SHM" Subject: [PRR] Dominion,Southern and Northern expresses Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 20:22:45 -0500 Hi all... Ok i should have mentioned this from the beginning. I know that K-4's and the two K-5's were used in 1945 before the diesels. I also know that the EP-20 E-7 engines were used on the Liberty Limited after 1947. I also know about the use of the Baldwin centipedes after 1947. What i don't know is how long the K classes were still used on name trains there and when the Baldwins were reassigned or when enough EMD E7 and E8 were available to take over these trains. Well enough for now. Til Later Hank Mummert P.S. K-4's were still used on the Liberty Limited in 1947.=20 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 10/22/2003 ------=_NextPart_000_01AD_01C3E513.53330DE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi all...
 
 Ok i should have mentioned this = from the=20 beginning.
 
 I know that K-4's and the two = K-5's were used=20 in 1945
before the diesels. I also know that = the EP-20=20 E-7
engines were used on the Liberty = Limited after=20 1947.
I also know about the use of the = Baldwin=20 centipedes
after 1947.
 
What i don't know is how long the K=20 classes
were still used on name trains there = and=20 when
the Baldwins were reassigned or when=20 enough
EMD E7 and E8 were available to take=20 over
these trains.
 
Well enough for now.
 
          &nbs= p;            = ;       =20 Til Later
          &nbs= p;            = ;       =20 Hank Mummert
 
P.S. K-4's were still used on the = Liberty=20 Limited
in 1947. 
 

---
Outgoing mail is certified = Virus=20 Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: = 6.0.530 /=20 Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: = 10/22/2003
------=_NextPart_000_01AD_01C3E513.53330DE0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Broadway Limited Imports E7's Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 20:31:17 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I was speaking with Tim at Broadway this evening... He told me the Pennsy E7A units -- due in March -- will have factory-installed trainphones!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "J. Smith" Subject: [PRR] train phones Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 21:14:22 -0500 What year sis the PRR start using the train phone in earnest? Jeff ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C3E51A.8896CB00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
What year sis the PRR start using the = train phone=20 in earnest?
 
Jeff
------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C3E51A.8896CB00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 22:25:14 -0500 From: Steve Sharpe Subject: [PRR] BLI 4-8-0 mountain X-Rcpt-To: Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I received my M1b yesterday. After taking it out of the box and admiring it for awhile, I eventually noticed that it was missing the trailing wheels! The truck is there but there are no wheels in it. I've emailed them requesting some replacements but have not heard back yet. I may get on the phone after them tomorrow. -- Steve sbs@milestone-media.com • ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Rwo1361@aol.com Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 23:00:42 EST Subject: [PRR] M1a question I just got my M1a today. Two of the drivers have blind wheels. Is this how BWL made them? Roger -------------------------------1075262442 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
I just got my M1a today. Two of the driver= s have blind wheels.  Is this how BWL made them?
 
Roger
-------------------------------1075262442-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 23:16:45 EST Subject: [PRR] M-1 tenders Have spent the better part of the evening looking thru my PRR library to see what I can find on M-1a/b with 210F75a tenders. Have found 2 so far the 6736 on pg.56 of the Heart of the PRR , and the 6758 on pg. 215 of the good old Pennsy Power. Looks like most M-1a's kept their 210F75's until the end. The M-1a's that were rebuilt with new boilers in 1946 and became M-1b's seem to be the ones that got the slightly bigger 210F75a tanks. Am I correct in thinking the only difference between the 210F75a and 210F75b is the location of the stoker motor ? If I remember one had the motor located on the tender and the other was under the cab of the loco. ------------------------------------------Ken McCorry --part1_d5.3f0c0ef.2d4891ad_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Have spent th= e better part of the evening looking thru my PRR library to see what I can f= ind on M-1a/b with 210F75a tenders. Have found 2 so far the 6736 on pg.56 of= the Heart of the PRR , and the 6758 on pg. 215 of the good old Pennsy Power= . Looks like most M-1a's kept their 210F75's until the end. The M-1a's that=20= were rebuilt with new boilers in 1946 and became M-1b's seem to be the ones=20= that got the slightly bigger 210F75a tanks. Am I correct in thinking the onl= y difference between the 210F75a and 210F75b is the location of the stoker m= otor ? If I remember one had the motor located on the tender and the other w= as under the cab of the loco.=20
------------------------------------------Ken McCorry --part1_d5.3f0c0ef.2d4891ad_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chuck Friedlein" Subject: [PRR] trainphone transmitter Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 23:18:19 -0500 Are there any thoughts on who manufactures the best HO scale version of = the trainphone transmitter disk? I need to get some for future projects and want to get ones that are the = most accurate, if possible. Also, is there any known reference as to where they would be positioned = (location and orientation) on steam & diesel locos and on cabins? TIA for any help, Chuck Friedlein ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C3E52B.D9A799A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Are there any thoughts on who manufactures the best = HO scale=20 version of the trainphone transmitter disk?
 
I need to get some for future projects and want to = get ones=20 that are the most accurate, if possible.
 
Also, is there any known reference as to where they = would be=20 positioned (location and orientation) on steam & diesel locos = and on=20 cabins?
 
TIA for any help,
Chuck Friedlein

------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C3E52B.D9A799A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] M-1 tender question Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 22:18:45 -0600 Hi Ken--Scurrying thru my books showed the following with regard to your = question about M1a/b with 210F75a/b tenders (welded sides and eight = wheel trucks): =20 Keystone June 1979, p. 12, according to John Prophet, "...but a few = appeared on M1b engines." I Remember Pennsy, p. 92, too distant to read, but Don Wood's caption = reads 6738. Pennsy Power II, p. 96, engine number unreadable. Pennsy Steam A to T, p. 170, 6736. Pennsylvania M-1 Dual Service Mountains, p. 15, 6736. Also, = interesting, but probably not reliable, the drawings reproduced in the = foldouts show 6739 and 6762 with the 210F75a/b. I also looked thru PPI, PPIII, Mainline Modeler for Jan. and Feb. 1987, = without any luck. =20 If your are going to do the swap, it looks like 6736 would be the best = candidate. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_0103_01C3E523.8729B760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Ken--Scurrying thru my books showed = the=20 following with regard to your question about M1a/b with 210F75a/b = tenders=20 (welded sides and eight wheel trucks): 
 
Keystone June 1979, p. 12, according to = John=20 Prophet, "...but a few appeared on M1b engines."
 
I Remember Pennsy, p. 92, too distant = to read, but=20 Don Wood's caption reads 6738.
 
Pennsy Power II, p. 96, engine number=20 unreadable.
 
Pennsy Steam A to T, p. 170, = 6736.
 
Pennsylvania M-1 Dual Service = Mountains, p. 15,=20 6736.  Also, interesting, but probably not reliable, the drawings=20 reproduced in the foldouts show 6739 and 6762 with the = 210F75a/b.
 
 
I also looked thru PPI, PPIII, Mainline = Modeler for=20 Jan. and Feb. 1987, without any luck.
 
If your are going to do the swap, it = looks like=20 6736 would be the best candidate.
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
       =20
------=_NextPart_000_0103_01C3E523.8729B760-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred in Vt." Subject: [PRR] BLI/brass Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 01:10:26 -0500 Listers, To understand , we must regress in time. For myself, serious = modeling began in 1962, at age 15. Alco Models marketed an SW1 for = $36.50. Very good price even then. The next two issues of the SAME model = were $42.50 and $45.00. What effected the price? The US dollar was equal = to 1000yen. Have you noticed the current dollar/yen valuation? So then, = the world is catching up to the US, and with respect to the Euro, = pulling ahead. Brass makers have tried to follow the lower cost labor to = other Asian vendors, who in turn see the profit line and increase = production costs. This may explain how the PFM I1 of $110.00 has evolved = into the $1,200.00 model of today. Another factor in the equation is the "trends" in the model = industry. While we had very good running models back when, the details = were not of the "museum quality" that were winning the NMRA contests. = The modelers complained that they had to have the ultimate level of = detailing if they were going to buy the brass. Ergo, the manufacturers = gave us what we asked for, and at the premium price expected. In time = the adds went from "smooth running pulling power" to "never before seen = attention to detail". Yes, we got the correct sized globe valve handle, = as measured by a micromiter; while the dependable power plant we were = used to dissappeared. The trend was to furnish the details, and not = worry about how it runs. Many of you have noted that the idea was to = buy, then take apart and rebuild something that would run right.I must = be getting old, my idea of buying to build was an old Roundhouse E6. All = brass needed was the perfect paint job to make it right. Where were we = derailed into thinking detail was more improtant than running the = equipment? Please remember that I am an operator, not a collector of = shelf models. If you are the optimum collector, that's fine too. Every = aspect of the hobby has it's place, and each benefits the other in time. The T1 on my work bench is one of the best pieces I own, and I = expect to get a lot of use from it. Should the principals of BLI read = these postings, I would encourage them to begin NOW to stock a parts = inventory. The rebuilders on this, and many other lists will be looking = for quality parts to rebuild the dinosaurs in the box, under the = workbench, and it not the too distant future. Personally, I'm elated = that one manufacturer has redone their thinking about the brass market. = To divest that method, and embrace the more affordable will no doubt = show profits. Profits begets the modeler's opinions heard, and acted = upon. BLI could have anywhere from 1 to 4 new PRR steam models in the = production schedule, and if we are quick to find more than an honest = critque, then they can always build for some other lines for a few = years, and leave us waiting. FWIW, I think we should let them work on = production for awhile, then compare the apples and oranges. How many of = us have bought a new vehicle for $20,000 and had to stop by the = dealership to have something or other adjusted? A modeler without = patience, hmmmmm? Someone on the list made refference to "field of dreams", and = that was right on the money! Polite encouragement will get the results = we seek; not to mention a selection of tenders to go with an H9/10. = Something tells me that if the H-I-K-L classes are produced, we will all = get at least one, and do what we thnk it needs to suit our own specs..If = we, as a group were affraid of challenge, we would never have gotten = into THIS hobby in the first place. Essay complete, now I'm going back = into my igloo here in Vt. to take on some P70 kits that I refuse to = surrender to. Thank you. Fred in Vt. ------=_NextPart_000_00C9_01C3E53B.8385C8C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Listers,
         To=20 understand , we must regress in time. For myself, serious modeling began = in=20 1962, at age 15. Alco Models marketed an SW1 for $36.50. Very good price = even=20 then. The next two issues of the SAME model were $42.50 and $45.00. What = effected the price? The US dollar was equal to 1000yen. Have you noticed = the=20 current dollar/yen valuation? So then, the world is catching up to the = US, and=20 with respect to the Euro, pulling ahead. Brass makers have tried to = follow the=20 lower cost labor to other Asian vendors, who in turn see the profit line = and=20 increase production costs. This may explain how the PFM I1 of $110.00 = has=20 evolved into the $1,200.00 model of today.
          Another = factor in=20 the equation is the "trends" in the model industry. While we had very = good=20 running models back when, the details were not of the "museum quality" = that were=20 winning the NMRA contests. The modelers complained that they had to have = the=20 ultimate level of detailing if they were going to buy the brass. Ergo, = the=20 manufacturers gave us what we asked for, and at the premium price = expected. In=20 time the adds went from "smooth running pulling power" to "never before = seen=20 attention to detail". Yes, we got the correct sized globe valve handle, = as=20 measured by a micromiter; while the dependable power plant we were used = to=20 dissappeared. The trend was to furnish the details, and not worry about = how it=20 runs. Many of you have noted that the idea was to buy, then = take apart=20 and rebuild something that would run right.I must be getting old, my = idea of=20 buying to build was an old Roundhouse E6. All brass needed was the = perfect paint=20 job to make it right. Where were we derailed into thinking detail was = more=20 improtant than running the equipment? Please remember that I am an = operator, not=20 a collector of shelf models. If you are the optimum collector, that's = fine too.=20 Every aspect of the hobby has it's place, and each benefits the other in = time.
          The T1 = on my work=20 bench is one of the best pieces I own, and I expect to get a lot of = use=20 from it. Should the principals of BLI read these postings, I would = encourage=20 them to begin NOW to stock a parts inventory. The rebuilders on this, = and many=20 other lists will be looking for quality parts to rebuild the dinosaurs = in the=20 box, under the workbench, and it not the too distant future. Personally, = I'm=20 elated that one manufacturer has redone their thinking about the brass = market.=20 To divest that method, and embrace the more affordable will no doubt = show=20 profits. Profits begets the modeler's opinions heard, and acted upon. = BLI could=20 have anywhere from 1 to 4 new PRR steam models in the production = schedule, and=20 if we are quick to find more than an honest critque, then they can = always build=20 for some other lines for a few years, and leave us waiting. FWIW, I = think we=20 should let them work on production for awhile, then compare the apples = and=20 oranges. How many of us have bought a new vehicle for $20,000 and had to = stop by=20 the dealership to have something or other adjusted? A modeler without = patience,=20 hmmmmm?
           = Someone on=20 the list made refference to "field of dreams", and that was right on the = money!=20 Polite encouragement will get the results we seek; not to mention a = selection of=20 tenders to go with an H9/10. Something tells me that if the H-I-K-L = classes are=20 produced, we will all get at least one, and do what we thnk it needs to = suit our=20 own specs..If we, as a group were affraid of challenge, we would never = have=20 gotten into THIS hobby in the first place. Essay complete, now I'm going = back=20 into my igloo here in Vt. to take on some P70 kits that I refuse to = surrender=20 to. Thank you.     Fred in Vt.
 
------=_NextPart_000_00C9_01C3E53B.8385C8C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] M1b Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 01:04:59 -0600 A couple notes on the M1b. First, though I wouldn't put it in the = category of Railworks GN green on brass steamers, I thought the DGLE was = a little greener than the T1. A minor issue as it is easier for me to = overspray with a light wash of grimy black on green than trying to get a = coal-black Bachmann K4 to have a subtle green hint. Second, it seemed much lighter than the T1 but I didn't get a chance to = operate under load as I unfortunately drew the dispatcher assignment in = tonight's ops session. Though I lubricated it thoroughly later, my T1 operated smooth as glass = out of the box. The M1b needs a thorough break-in and after about 15 = minutes running, I won't run it again without a thorough lube job---I = have a feeling it wasn't lubed at all at the factory. That also might = get rid of the squeaks:-). I also noticed the center pair of drivers were blind. Kind of looked = for an extra set of flanged replacement drivers ala the T1, but not to = be seen. I also concur with one poster that I would like to see another drawbar = hole for closer coupling, but thats an easy fix. I do like the sound of the two-cylinder exhaust at speed. In fact I = loved the sound in general. I really cranked mine down to a setting of = 25 (out of 127) as my hearing is outstanding and I prefer the lower = levels. Gets a fairly undistorted speaker result, too. Just wish I could have afforded a second to double-head. And on that = subject, when is some steam loco supplier going to give us a working = front-end coupler? Bob Zoeller ------=_NextPart_000_00A6_01C3E53A.C084AC10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
A couple notes on the M1b.  First, = though I=20 wouldn't put it in the category of Railworks GN green on brass steamers, = I=20 thought the DGLE was  a little greener than the T1.  A minor = issue as=20 it is easier for me to overspray with a light wash of grimy black on = green than=20 trying to get a coal-black Bachmann K4 to have a subtle green = hint.
 
Second, it seemed much lighter than the = T1 but I=20 didn't get a chance to operate under load as I unfortunately drew the = dispatcher=20 assignment in tonight's ops session.
 
Though I lubricated it thoroughly = later, my T1=20 operated smooth as glass out of the box.  The M1b needs a thorough=20  break-in and after about 15 minutes running, I won't run it again = without=20 a thorough lube job---I have a feeling it wasn't lubed at all at the=20 factory.  That also might get rid of the squeaks:-).
 
I also noticed the center pair of = drivers were=20 blind.  Kind of looked for an extra set of flanged replacement = drivers ala=20 the T1, but not to be seen.
 
I also concur with one poster that I = would like to=20 see another drawbar hole for closer coupling, but thats an easy=20 fix.
 
I do like the sound of the two-cylinder = exhaust at=20 speed.  In fact I loved the sound in general.  I really = cranked mine=20 down to a setting of 25  (out of 127) as my hearing is outstanding = and I=20 prefer the lower levels.  Gets a fairly undistorted speaker result, = too.
 
Just wish I could have afforded a = second to=20 double-head.  And on that subject, when is some steam loco = supplier=20  going to give us a working front-end coupler?
 
Bob Zoeller
 
------=_NextPart_000_00A6_01C3E53A.C084AC10-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] M1a question Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 07:12:09 -0500 To: Rwo1361@aol.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: That is correct and how advertised on their web site. Most of their models have some blind drivers. Some (T1, J1) include=20 replacement flanged drivers. On Jan 27, 2004, at 11:00 PM, Rwo1361@aol.com wrote: > I just got my M1a today. Two of the drivers have blind wheels.=A0 Is=20= > this how BWL made them? > =A0 > Roger > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI 4-8-0 mountain Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 07:30:38 -0500 Steve: You are not alone. The SAME thing happened to me with my M-1b that I got = yesterday. The trailing truck is there.....just no wheel set. I have emailed BLI too but have not heard from them yet. Ted Andrews wheelset-less in Indiana ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steve Sharpe=20 To: PRR-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 10:25 PM Subject: [PRR] BLI 4-8-0 mountain I received my M1b yesterday. After taking it out of the box and=20 admiring it for awhile, I eventually noticed that it was missing the=20 trailing wheels! The truck is there but there are no wheels in it.=20 I've emailed them requesting some replacements but have not heard=20 back yet. I may get on the phone after them tomorrow. --=20 Steve sbs@milestone-media.com . = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C3E570.A05DB720 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Steve:
 
You are not alone. The SAME thing happened to me with my M-1b that = I got=20 yesterday. The trailing truck is there.....just no wheel set.
 
I have emailed BLI too but have not heard from them yet.
 
Ted Andrews
wheelset-less in Indiana
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Sharpe
To: PRR-talk@dsop.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 = 10:25=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] BLI 4-8-0 = mountain

I received my M1b yesterday. After taking it out of the = box and=20
admiring it for awhile, I eventually noticed that it was missing = the=20
trailing wheels! The truck is there but there are no wheels in it. =
I've emailed them requesting some replacements but have not heard =
back=20 yet. I may get on the phone after them tomorrow.
-- =

Steve
sbs@milestone-media.com
.<= BR>
------------------------------------------------------------------= -----
For=20 assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.
------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C3E570.A05DB720-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Park Varieties" Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway Limited Imports E7's Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 08:22:51 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Yes it does. Frank Brua ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. Smith" To: "prr-talk" Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 9:10 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway Limited Imports E7's > Does this include the A units in the A-B sets and the single A units? > > Jeff > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry @ Pennsy" > To: "PRR-talk" > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 8:31 PM > Subject: [PRR] Broadway Limited Imports E7's > > > > I was speaking with Tim at Broadway this evening... > > > > He told me the Pennsy E7A units -- due in March -- will have > > factory-installed trainphones!!! > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 08:24:44 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Broadway Limited PRR E7's From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <562A75FC-5195-11D8-95C5-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In response to my posting about E7's last night, I have received a plethora of off-list questions. I will summarize the answers here... BLI is offering FOUR A/B sets of E7's. Two in DGLE; two in Tuscan. Both are in FIVE STRIPE livery. Subsequent to the original announcement of A-B sets, I (and others) petitioned BLI to offer additional A units, as the PRR purchased these as ABA sets. BLI made that announcement to dealers via FAX. Unfortunately, they originally made the announcement with the plans to sell the A's with the same road number as the ones in the A-B sets. Some of the western roads do this... they might have an ABBBA lashup and they all have the same road number, but perhaps with A, B, C, etc., suffixes. I called BLI and got the numbers changed to match how the sets were delivered. So now you can put together up to four ABA consists. This change was also FAXed to dealers. A lot of potential customers are saying that their dealer knows nothing about these A units. That is further confused by the fact that BLI never added them to their web site. However, they have been announced, and they are for real. Finally, and confirming, BLI has told me that the A units will have factory-installed trainphones. This is very good news! To summarize, BLI is offering the following: DGLE: A-B set: 5846A, 5846B A only: 5847A A-B set: 5850A, 5850B A only: 5851A Tuscan: A-B set: 5850A, 5840B A only: 5841A A-B set: 5842A, 5842B A only: 5843A Delivery is now mid-March, not February as the web site says. This is current as of 7:24 a.m. this morning! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 09:01:53 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] trainphone transmitter Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Chuck, AFAIK CalScale is the only manufacturer of those disks. Fortunately they seem to do a good job and offer at least 3 varieties (2 diesel, 1 caboose or tender deck). Regards, Andy Miller ======================================================= Chuck Friedlein wrote: > Are there any thoughts on who manufactures the best HO scale version > of the trainphone transmitter disk? I need to get some for future > projects and want to get ones that are the most accurate, if > possible. Also, is there any known reference as to where they would be > positioned (location and orientation) on steam & diesel locos and on > cabins? TIA for any help,Chuck Friedlein -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 08:23:06 -0600 Subject: Re: { SPAM 1 }::[PRR] M1b From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On Wednesday, January 28, 2004, at 01:04 AM, Bob Zoeller wrote: > A couple notes on the M1b.=A0 First, though I wouldn't put it in the=20= > category of Railworks GN green on brass steamers, I thought the DGLE=20= > was=A0 a little greener than the T1.=A0 A minor issue as it is easier = for=20 > me to overspray with a light wash of grimy black on green than trying=20= > to get a coal-black Bachmann K4 to have a subtle green hint. Definitely too green. You may even consider something like Steam Loco=20= black, as Grimy Black has some green to it as well, and may not mute=20 the underlying green as much as needed...guess we need to experiment. =20= Lots of Grimy Black for the roof and tender decks is in order too! > Second, it seemed much lighter than the T1 but I didn't get a chance=20= > to operate under load as I unfortunately drew the dispatcher=20 > assignment in tonight's ops session. > =A0 > Though I lubricated it thoroughly later, my T1 operated smooth as=20 > glass out of the box.=A0 The M1b needs a thorough =A0break-in and = after=20 > about 15 minutes running, I won't run it again without a thorough lube=20= > job---I have a feeling it wasn't lubed at all at the factory.=A0 That=20= > also might get rid of the squeaks:-). I agree. My M1As sound quiet going forwards, but sound like a sewing=20 machine in reverse. In addition, the tender axles squeak like a herd=20 of mice! You may notice a LOT of play in the middle axle of the tender=20= trucks. I have, but I haven't looked very closely to see if there are=20= any issues (hey, at least there's an axle there ) > I also noticed the center pair of drivers were blind.=A0 Kind of = looked=20 > for an extra set of flanged replacement drivers ala the T1, but not to=20= > be seen. No need, its prototypical =A0 Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin=20 Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-2-355822008 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wednesday, January 28, 2004, at 01:04 AM, Bob Zoeller wrote: ArialA couple notes on the M1b.=A0 First, though I wouldn't put it in the category of Railworks GN green on brass steamers, I thought the DGLE was=A0 a little greener than the T1.=A0 A minor issue as it is easier for me to overspray with a light wash of grimy black on green than trying to get a coal-black Bachmann K4 to have a subtle green hint. Definitely too green. You may even consider something like Steam Loco black, as Grimy Black has some green to it as well, and may not mute the underlying green as much as needed...guess we need to experiment.=20 Lots of Grimy Black for the roof and tender decks is in order too! ArialSecond, it seemed much lighter than the T1 but I didn't get a chance to operate under load as I unfortunately drew the dispatcher assignment in tonight's ops session. =A0 ArialThough I lubricated it thoroughly later, my T1 operated smooth as glass out of the box.=A0 The M1b needs a thorough =A0break-in and after about 15 minutes running, I won't run it again without a thorough lube job---I have a feeling it wasn't lubed at all at the factory.=A0 That also might get rid of the squeaks:-). I agree. My M1As sound quiet going forwards, but sound like a sewing machine in reverse. In addition, the tender axles squeak like a herd of mice! You may notice a LOT of play in the middle axle of the tender trucks. I have, but I haven't looked very closely to see if there are any issues (hey, at least there's an axle there <) ArialI also noticed the center pair of drivers were blind.=A0 Kind of looked for an extra set of flanged replacement drivers ala the T1, but not to be = seen. No need, its prototypical =A0 Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. =20 Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-2-355822008-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 08:44:31 -0600 Subject: ::[PRR] BLI/brass From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Wednesday, January 28, 2004, at 12:10 AM, Fred in Vt. wrote: > Should the principals of BLI read these postings, I would encourage > them to begin NOW to stock a parts inventory. The rebuilders on this, > and many other lists will be looking for quality parts to rebuild the > dinosaurs in the box, under the workbench, and it not the too distant > future. Fred, First, you're way too late and second, it ain't gonna happen anyway. In today's model railroad business environment, "stock" is a dirty work. I'm not trying to be cranky or start a long thread here, but rather to point out the reality. Maintaining inventory has an adverse impact on profit margins. "Spare" (ie repair) parts are run in limited numbers along with the production run. There is no continuing production of parts and no intention of supplying parts long term to anyone. The preferential method of repairing a broken locomotive is replacement. This eliminates assymetric stocking issues AND the need to keep a repair tech on payroll. This all makes outstanding business sense, particularly when you realize that the "rebuilders" are tiny tiny fraction of today's market, and parts are small ticket items. Part of the reason we're even seeing locos like BLI is producing is the shift in market dynamics. For a lesson in "stocking" talk to Bill Wischer of Walthers. Based on pleas from PC modelers, Walthers ran some of the early Budd passenger cars in PC lettering. They had cars on the shelf 12 months later, making the PC lettering a "failure". You can bet that it will be a long time before Walthers releases another PC lettered passenger car! So, if you want to rebuild a Bowser T1 with a BLI chassis, you're going to have to buy the whole BLI loco and throw away the shell...and why would you want to do that when the BLI shell is nicer in many ways? Now, is there a place for a third party to do resin castings of a replacement nose for the 6110 and 6111, porthole front ends, or an "early" tender shell? Maybe...maybe not (typical volume for resin is at least 400 "units") Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-4-357107213 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII On Wednesday, January 28, 2004, at 12:10 AM, Fred in Vt. wrote: ArialShould the principals of BLI read these postings, I would encourage them to begin NOW to stock a parts inventory. The rebuilders on this, and many other lists will be looking for quality parts to rebuild the dinosaurs in the box, under the workbench, and it not the too distant future. Fred, First, you're way too late and second, it ain't gonna happen anyway. In today's model railroad business environment, "stock" is a dirty work. I'm not trying to be cranky or start a long thread here, but rather to point out the reality. Maintaining inventory has an adverse impact on profit margins. "Spare" (ie repair) parts are run in limited numbers along with the production run. There is no continuing production of parts and no intention of supplying parts long term to anyone. The preferential method of repairing a broken locomotive is replacement. This eliminates assymetric stocking issues AND the need to keep a repair tech on payroll. This all makes outstanding business sense, particularly when you realize that the "rebuilders" are tiny tiny fraction of today's market, and parts are small ticket items. Part of the reason we're even seeing locos like BLI is producing is the shift in market dynamics. For a lesson in "stocking" talk to Bill Wischer of Walthers. Based on pleas from PC modelers, Walthers ran some of the early Budd passenger cars in PC lettering. They had cars on the shelf 12 months later, making the PC lettering a "failure". You can bet that it will be a long time before Walthers releases another PC lettered passenger car! So, if you want to rebuild a Bowser T1 with a BLI chassis, you're going to have to buy the whole BLI loco and throw away the shell...and why would you want to do that when the BLI shell is nicer in many ways? Now, is there a place for a third party to do resin castings of a replacement nose for the 6110 and 6111, porthole front ends, or an "early" tender shell? Maybe...maybe not (typical volume for resin is at least 400 "units") Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-4-357107213-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 09:58:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Re: M1b MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Guys, I am still awaiting my M1b's delivery from my local guy so can't comment on too much yet. However, a member of the local (yes you Eric, a lurker here on PRR-Talk) ) club who just happened to be the one who won the raffle M1a from BLI at the Timonium show, had the chance to run his on the club layout. It too squeaked a bit but another member lightly oiled the rod and associated bearing contacts and it quited right up. Got a question. I am assuming the M1a/b's are made in China? and the T1's I know were made in Korea. If so we may have to deal with some differences in quality ad quality control itself in regards to the missing wheels sets. I know someone who bought the USRA 2-8-2 and it is made in China. Maybe it will be hit or miss with everything from the Chinese side? Oh well, still patiently awaiting my M1b's arrival so I can turn one into the 6749 with Keystone and Builders plates from Schukyill Div. Thanks Doug, it arrived.......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 09:27:46 -0600 Subject: [PRR] M-1 tenders From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Tuesday, January 27, 2004, at 10:16 PM, KEMACPRR@aol.com wrote: > Am I correct in thinking the only difference between the 210F75a and > 210F75b is the location of the stoker motor ? If I remember one had > the motor located on the tender and the other was under the cab of the > loco. > ------------------------------------------Ken McCorry Ken, Yes indeed! Information from Mainline Modeler, February 1987, by Richard Adams (This is the second in a 2 part series on the M1 which ran in Jan 1987 and Feb 1987) 210F75A - stoker motor on the tender (there is a door on the fireman's side of the tender for it) 210F75B - "LT conversion stoker" used existing Duplex stoker motor on locomotive with a Standard conveyor and distribution system...called "bucket a day" stokers by crews due to their slow stoking speed. Mr. Adams indicates that the M1A class was all equipped with 210F75 (or 210P75 for the 10 assigned to passenger duties) when built. In the 1930s 25 250P75 tenders were built with 21 assigned to M1s and 4 assigned to K4's. In addition 18 210F75 tenders were built with 12 assigned to M1s and 6 assigned to K4's. The 6 210F75 tenders assigned to K4's were transferred to M1's in the 1940's. All welded construction was introduced in 1938, along with 8 wheel trucks. Between 1938 and 1942, 115 210F75A/B tenders were built as replacements for M1 tenders (110P/F75). Thus it stands to reason that any 210F75B tenders on M1B locomotives were the result of a tender "swap" at a later date and were thus "rare" compared to the 210F75. It would seem unlikely to see a 210F75A on an M1B because the M1B was equipped with a stoker beneath the cab. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-8-359702722 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII On Tuesday, January 27, 2004, at 10:16 PM, KEMACPRR@aol.com wrote: ArialAm I correct in thinking the only difference between the 210F75a and 210F75b is the location of the stoker motor ? If I remember one had the motor located on the tender and the other was under the cab of the loco. ------------------------------------------Ken McCorry Ken, Yes indeed! Information from Mainline Modeler, February 1987, by Richard Adams (This is the second in a 2 part series on the M1 which ran in Jan 1987 and Feb 1987) 210F75A - stoker motor on the tender (there is a door on the fireman's side of the tender for it) 210F75B - "LT conversion stoker" used existing Duplex stoker motor on locomotive with a Standard conveyor and distribution system...called "bucket a day" stokers by crews due to their slow stoking speed. Mr. Adams indicates that the M1A class was all equipped with 210F75 (or 210P75 for the 10 assigned to passenger duties) when built. In the 1930s 25 250P75 tenders were built with 21 assigned to M1s and 4 assigned to K4's. In addition 18 210F75 tenders were built with 12 assigned to M1s and 6 assigned to K4's. The 6 210F75 tenders assigned to K4's were transferred to M1's in the 1940's. All welded construction was introduced in 1938, along with 8 wheel trucks. Between 1938 and 1942, 115 210F75A/B tenders were built as replacements for M1 tenders (110P/F75). Thus it stands to reason that any 210F75B tenders on M1B locomotives were the result of a tender "swap" at a later date and were thus "rare" compared to the 210F75. It would seem unlikely to see a 210F75A on an M1B because the M1B was equipped with a stoker beneath the cab. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-8-359702722-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:29:32 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] Yet another M1 Report Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Got my M1b last night at my dealer. It ran well and usually quiet, but an occasional rubbing sound occurred. It quickly went away (the sound, not the M1). I was disappointed in the pulling power. On the North Shore Club's mountain division, it topped out at about 15 cars - not what the PRR expected of these engines. The good news is that there is still room in the firebox aft of the can motor for another 2-3 oz of weight. I tested the engine with a 3.5 oz weight sitting on it and it still was safe weighted. For contrast, my old Gem M1a pulled 25 cars up the same hills. My Bowser L1s do about the same. Unfortunately on DC, I can not double head these locos. The DCC/sound chip in the BLI steals the first 8 volt of track power, so the Gem M1 starts moving way earlier than the BLI and it pushes the BLI engine around while pulling the train! I guess double heading will have to wait until I put a DCC receiver in the Gem M1. The biggest visible difference between the BLI and the brass M1s is in the exposed edges of sheetwork such as the edge of the running boards or the edge of the tender coal board. The brass construction produced a much thinner cross section than the molded plastic. -- Regards, Andy Miller ======================================================= ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 09:52:17 -0600 Subject: ::Re: [PRR] M-1 tender question From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On Tuesday, January 27, 2004, at 05:52 PM, Larry Reynolds wrote: > > As=A0a side note, I'd like to see BLI also offer the 250P75 tender. Larry, This is where I see brass as having a real market still...Only 25=20 250P75 tenders were ever built, 24 riveted and 1 welded. Railworks=20 imported the tender alone (as well as attached to an I1) a few years=20 ago, and I know folks who have picked them up recently for less than=20 $100 (with a list of $250). Now, good possibilities for BLI include revising the 210F75 to include=20= earlier freight and passenger versions, and producing a welded 16 wheel=20= tender to be used behind an I1 model, should they choose to release one=20= (and they have 8 wheel trucks already under the T1 tender). The neat=20 part about that is that the same tender, with a 75" deck height, could=20= be used with an M1 model...(for which a revised chassis and boiler=20 would be needed, but for which the cab, pilot and running gear are=20 already done) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin=20 Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-10-361173800 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tuesday, January 27, 2004, at 05:52 PM, Larry Reynolds wrote: ArialAs=A0a side note, I'd like to see BLI also offer the 250P75 tender. Larry, This is where I see brass as having a real market still...Only 25 250P75 tenders were ever built, 24 riveted and 1 welded. Railworks imported the tender alone (as well as attached to an I1) a few years ago, and I know folks who have picked them up recently for less than $100 (with a list of $250). Now, good possibilities for BLI include revising the 210F75 to include earlier freight and passenger versions, and producing a welded 16 wheel tender to be used behind an I1 model, should they choose to release one (and they have 8 wheel trucks already under the T1 tender). The neat part about that is that the same tender, with a 75" deck height, could be used with an M1 model...(for which a revised chassis and boiler would be needed, but for which the cab, pilot and running gear are already done) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. =20 Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-10-361173800-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:56:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Yet another M1 Report From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Wednesday, January 28, 2004, at 10:29 AM, Andrew S. Miller wrote: > I was disappointed in the pulling power. On the North Shore Club's > mountain division, it topped out at about 15 cars What amazes me is the variance in pulling power being reported. Yours topped out at 15 cars. What was the grade? Ken's barely stalled on his 2.5% Keating Summit grade with 40 cars...and I suspect I know where it stalled. Ken: Was it at the "S" curve located directly above where the REA building is on the lower level? I've seen trains stall here before on his layout. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:09:27 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Yet another M1 Report Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry, The NS Club's grade is also on a nearly continuous 36" r turn. It is almost a helix. The turn could be adding more resistance than the grade. I don't believe then grade is over 2%. My M1 never stalled. It spun its drivers, after which its pulling power (with polished drivers) decreased. Another variable is the weight and rolling characteristics of the cars. Almost all of my cars are weighted to NMRA std 3.5oz and are equipped with Reboxx or IM wheels. There were no particularly heavy clunkers in the consist, but a few of the cars still had their original Bowser/Athearn/Accurail/Kadee wheels. Regards, Andy Miller ======================================================= Jerry Britton wrote: > On Wednesday, January 28, 2004, at 10:29 AM, Andrew S. Miller wrote: > > > I was disappointed in the pulling power. On the North Shore Club's > > mountain division, it topped out at about 15 cars > > What amazes me is the variance in pulling power being reported. Yours > topped out at 15 cars. What was the grade? > > Ken's barely stalled on his 2.5% Keating Summit grade with 40 > cars...and I suspect I know where it stalled. Ken: Was it at the "S" > curve located directly above where the REA building is on the lower > level? I've seen trains stall here before on his layout. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Tammra Link" Subject: [PRR] DCC Question Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:33:17 -0500 List, Many of you out there have tried a number of different brands of DCC = systems and decoders. I have a few questions. I want to wire my Bowser = Locomotives for DCC. What is an excellent decoder for use in a Bowser = locomotive with a helix humper motor?, or one with the stock motor? I = would like to assign the locomotive's number as the decoder address, so = I am assuming that I need a decoder with 4 number address capability. = Will I be able to wire a back-up light on the tender? How much does the = motor need to be "isolated" (insulated) from the frame? Will this = decoder support sound? Will this decoder work well with any system? How = will the system work with a BLI locomotive? (I have one on the way) Is = this system "Idiot" (meaning myself) friendly? Thanks for all help!! Matt Link -- slowly building a large roster of steam locomotives for a = future Crestline, Ohio themed layout PRR T&HS #7120 President -- The Crestline Roundhouse Preservation Society, Inc. Lover of PRR Steam!!! ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C3E592.85F5CBD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
List,
    Many of you out there have tried a number of = different=20 brands of DCC systems and decoders.  I have a few questions.  = I want=20 to wire my Bowser Locomotives for DCC.  What is an excellent = decoder for=20 use in a Bowser locomotive with a helix humper motor?, or one with the = stock=20 motor?  I would like to assign the locomotive's number as the = decoder=20 address, so I am assuming that I need a decoder with 4 number address=20 capability. Will I be able to wire a back-up light on the tender? How = much does=20 the motor need to be "isolated" (insulated) from the frame?  = Will this=20 decoder support sound? Will this decoder work well with any system? How = will the=20 system work with a BLI locomotive? (I have one on the way)  Is this = system=20 "Idiot" (meaning myself) friendly?  Thanks for all help!!
 
Matt Link -- slowly building a large roster of steam = locomotives for a=20 future Crestline, Ohio themed layout
PRR T&HS #7120
President -- The Crestline Roundhouse Preservation Society, = Inc.
Lover of PRR Steam!!!
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C3E592.85F5CBD0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:53:17 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] DCC Question X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Matt: > Many of you out there have tried a number of different brands of > DCC systems and decoders. I have a few questions. I want to wire my > Bowser Locomotives for DCC. What is an excellent decoder for use in a > Bowser locomotive with a helix humper motor? assuming this is the can motor that I think it is, any decoder should work. For any motor, to be safe, you should check the amount of current (amperage) the motor draws runniing and stalled (grab the flywheel). If it takes more than about 1/2 amp running or 1.25 amps stalled, it is best to replace the motor with a newer can motor before going to DCC. For a steam locomotive, I would recommend a decoder with back-EMF control. It will help smooth out operations on curves... Different people will tell you different decoders, but my personal favorite (I have standardized my layout on it and have over 100) is the Lenz LE1024 or LE1025 (same decoder, 2 different shapes). > , or one with the stock motor? I would strongly recommend replacing this motor. > I would like to assign the locomotive's number as the decoder address, > so I am assuming that I need a decoder with 4 number address capability. Almost any decoder made in past few years will support 4 digits. Avoid MRC decoders... > Will I be able to wire a back-up light on the tender? yes. > How much does the motor need to be "isolated" (insulated) from the > frame? 100% required. Not an option. There is NO WAY to install DCC and not isolate the motor (without letting all the "magic smoke" out of the decoder). > Will this decoder support sound? sound decoders are about $100 more than a normal motor decoder. If you want a sound decoder, it should be placed in the tender. My recommendation would be to put a LE1025W in the boiler someplace (assuming there is a little room) and a sound only decoder (such as Soundtraxx's DSX line) in the tender. This is the arrangement I use on my steam locomotives. Don't use a cheap speaker. Look for a better one with an enclosure. Soundtraxx sells an edgeport speaker that comes with the enclosure already attached that I often use. > Will this decoder work well with any system? You have to be careful with the old MRC systems. They only supported 10 numbers and not all the function keys (so you would not, for example, be able to blow the whistle). I don't know how big of a layout you have, but the Digitrax Zephyr is an excellent starter set for a smaller layout. If a larger layout, I would recommend the Digitrax Chief. Lenz and NCE also offer very good full featured systems. From your tag line (building large roster), I'd think maybe you would want to go with the Chief... > How will the system work with a BLI locomotive? (I have one on the way) Well, then you definitely want to avoid the MRC system -- you will loose a lot of sound... > Is this system "Idiot" (meaning myself) friendly? There is a learning curve with DCC (like most anything else). There are also some excellent resources on the web. There are support groups in the yahoogroups community for most DCC systems and Soundtraxx. If you are interested, let me know off list and I'll get you some more info on these. > Thanks for all help!! > Jeff Warner > Matt Link -- slowly building a large roster of steam locomotives for a > future Crestline, Ohio themed layout > PRR T&HS #7120 > President -- The Crestline Roundhouse Preservation Society, Inc. > Lover of PRR Steam!!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: [PRR] Westerfield PRR "Yellow Kid" Baggage/Smoker Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 18:42:26 +0000 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:53:59 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Westerfield PRR "Yellow Kid" Baggage/Smoker From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Wednesday, January 28, 2004, at 01:42 PM, b.hom@att.net wrote: > Apologies in advance to Jerry as this isn't the 1st or 15th of the > month, but > the scarcity of this item warrants mention immediately. Just spotted > this on > eBay - NIB kit, looks complete. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ > eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3172470313&category=484 I'll acknowledge the sense of urgency! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Rwo1361@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:16:21 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR M1 settings I am trying to set V2, V3 AND V4 on my M1a so that it will start out slow but can't seem to get the right combination of values. I thing some of the problem is the loco is a little rough at starting out nice and slow, maybe a little breaking in will help that. Any suggestions on setting or any other hints. It still runs well; also looks and sounds great !!!! Have digitrax throttle Roger -------------------------------1075317381 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
I am trying to set V2, V3 AND V4 on m= y M1a so that it will start out slow but can't seem to get the right combina= tion of values.  I thing some of the problem is the loco is a little ro= ugh at starting out nice and slow, maybe a little breaking in will help that= . Any suggestions on setting or any other hints.  It still runs well;&n= bsp;also looks and sounds great !!!! Have digitrax throttle
 
Roger
 
-------------------------------1075317381-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:31:46 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR M1 settings From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Wednesday, January 28, 2004, at 02:16 PM, Rwo1361@aol.com wrote: > I am trying to set V2, V3=A0AND V4 on my M1a so that it will start out=20= > slow but can't seem to get the right combination of values.=A0 I thing=20= > some of the problem is the loco is a little rough at starting out nice=20= > and slow, maybe a little breaking in will help that. Any suggestions=20= > on setting or any other hints.=A0 It still runs well;=A0also looks and=20= > sounds great !!!! Have digitrax throttle If someone can help out on this quickly and correctly, so be it.=20 Otherwise, I would recommend asking this question on the QSI list on=20 YeeHaw. (QSI is the manufacturer of the decoder.) I'd also suggest a good 30 minutes of break in time before adjusting=20 any CV's. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:34:50 -0600 Subject: ::RE: [PRR] M-1 road test From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Ben said: > Re:=A0 Does that mean we will get an H? One can only hope!=A0 = Remember,=20 > everyone needs Consolidations!=A0 And Al added: > In large numbers. As of September 1945, the largest single class of locos on the PRR=20 was... L1s 563, followed by H9s 535 I1s 478 K4s 421 H10s 400 B6sb 232 H6sb 210 M1 201 If you combine subclasses the numbers change a little bit... I1 593 L1 563 H9 557 K4 424 H10 400 And if you combine H 8, 9 & 10 class locos (basically, the only=20 difference was cylinder size) H 1063 And that's TWICE as many as any other wheel arrangement!! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin=20 Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-18-374526852 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 Ben said: Times New RomanRe:=A0 Does that mean we will get an H? One can only hope!=A0 Remember, everyone needs Consolidations!Times New = Roman=A0 And Al added: In large numbers. As of September 1945, the largest single class of locos on the PRR was... L1s 563, followed by H9s 535 I1s 478 K4s 421 H10s 400 B6sb 232 H6sb 210 M1 201 If you combine subclasses the numbers change a little bit... I1 593=20 L1 563=20 H9 557 K4 424 H10 400 And if you combine H 8, 9 & 10 class locos (basically, the only difference was cylinder size) H 1063 And that's TWICE as many as any other wheel arrangement!! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. =20 Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-18-374526852-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: ::RE: [PRR] M-1 road test Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:58:15 -0500 Bruce, Don't forget the 210 H6sb's, they're Consolidations, too. Sort of a = "vest pocket" version, but a handsome one. I'd LOVE to have one in N = scale! Gregg Mahlkov #7418 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bruce Smith=20 To: Al Buchan=20 Cc: 'Benjamin Frank Hom' ; pgrace@aspects.net ; prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 2:34 PM Subject: ::RE: [PRR] M-1 road test Ben said: Re: Does that mean we will get an H? One can only hope! Remember, = everyone needs Consolidations!=20 And Al added: In large numbers. As of September 1945, the largest single class of locos on the PRR = was... L1s 563, followed by H9s 535 I1s 478 K4s 421 H10s 400 B6sb 232 H6sb 210 M1 201 If you combine subclasses the numbers change a little bit... I1 593=20 L1 563=20 H9 557 K4 424 H10 400 And if you combine H 8, 9 & 10 class locos (basically, the only = difference was cylinder size) H 1063 And that's TWICE as many as any other wheel arrangement!! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.=20 Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin = Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------=_NextPart_000_0CB3_01C3E5AF.28674580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Bruce,
 
Don't forget the 210 H6sb's, they're Consolidations, = too. Sort=20 of a "vest pocket" version, but a handsome one.  I'd LOVE to have = one in N=20 scale!
 
Gregg Mahlkov #7418
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bruce=20 Smith
Cc: 'Benjamin Frank Hom' ; pgrace@aspects.net ; prr-talk@dsop.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, = 2004 2:34=20 PM
Subject: ::RE: [PRR] M-1 road = test

Ben said:
Re:  Does that = mean we=20 will get an H? One can only hope!  Remember, = everyone=20 needs Consolidations! 

And=20 Al added:
In large=20 numbers.

As of September 1945, the = largest=20 single class of locos on the PRR was...
L1s 563, followed by
H9s = 535
I1s 478
K4s 421
H10s 400
B6sb 232
H6sb 210
M1=20 201

If you combine subclasses the numbers change a little = bit...
I1=20 593
L1 563
H9 557
K4 424
H10 400

And if you = combine H 8,=20 9 & 10 class locos (basically, the only difference was cylinder = size)
H=20 1063

And that's TWICE as many as any other wheel=20 arrangement!!

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith = V.M.D., Ph.D.=20
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850=20 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof = that God=20 loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/=20 \
__<+--+>________________\__/___=20 ________________________________
|- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ = __ __=20 __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ |=20 = ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________\|_|= ________________________________|
|=20 O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------=_NextPart_000_0CB3_01C3E5AF.28674580-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 16:08:43 -0500 From: Drew McGhee Subject: CalScale was Re: [PRR] trainphone transmitter Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:27:26 -0600 Subject: H class models, was RE: [PRR] M-1 road test From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On Wednesday, January 28, 2004, at 01:58 PM, Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > Bruce, > =A0 > Don't forget the 210 H6sb's, they're Consolidations, too. Sort of a=20 > "vest pocket" version, but a handsome one.=A0 I'd LOVE to have one in = N=20 > scale! Greg, I would never forget them! But as we have argued long and=20 hard before, from a modeling standpoint, the H8, H9 and H10 classes can=20= easily be combined into a single model (albeit with multiple tenders,=20 but that is true within classes too), so what I should have said was=20 the I was lumping classes from a modeling perspective. Of course, then=20= we need to consider the affect of lumping the L and K series eh? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin=20 Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-20-377681911 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wednesday, January 28, 2004, at 01:58 PM, Gregg Mahlkov wrote: Bruce, =A0 Don't forget the 210 H6sb's, they're Consolidations, too. Sort of a "vest pocket" version, but a handsome one.=A0 I'd LOVE to have one in N scale! Greg, I would never forget them! < But as we have argued long and hard before, from a modeling standpoint, the H8, H9 and H10 classes can easily be combined into a single model (albeit with multiple tenders, but that is true within classes too), so what I should have said was the I was lumping classes from a modeling perspective. Of course, then we need to consider the affect of lumping the L and K series eh? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. =20 Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-20-377681911-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: WAMMP236@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 16:54:48 EST Subject: [PRR] Last 510 511 Hello List, Does anyone have any information on the last run of Trains 510 and 511 on the Bald Eagle branch between Tyrone and Lock Haven? -------------------------------1075326887 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Hello List,
            = ;  Does anyone have any information on the last run of Trains 510 and 5= 11 on the Bald Eagle branch between Tyrone and Lock Haven?
-------------------------------1075326887-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 18:08:33 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] mP54 question X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,7-40,42-56 From: Michael E Allen Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: George et alia, As an off-of-the-top-of-my-head response - I don't know of any ~54 type cars with rectangular end windows. The wooden PRSL electric cars (Somebody please help me with a class here!!) were originally built with wooden ends and rectangular widows which were replaced with steel ends with portholes. Mike Allen On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:26:35 -0600 writes: > Hello, all, > > I recently came across a photo of what looked like a mP54 coach > (non-electrified) which had rectangular windows on the ends (like > the early P70's) rather than the usual round "owl eye" windows. > Were any mP54's built this way? > > TIA, > > George Pierson > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While > Remembering Our PRR Heritage. > > To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = > PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~--> > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or > Lexmark > Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & > Canada. > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chuck Friedlein" Subject: [PRR] trainphone transmitter Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 19:33:10 -0500 Andy & Drew, Thanks for the information on who makes them. I'll order some form = Bowser. Chuck ------=_NextPart_000_0073_01C3E5D5.8FFE2C60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Andy & Drew,
Thanks for the information on who makes them.  = I'll order=20 some form Bowser.
Chuck

------=_NextPart_000_0073_01C3E5D5.8FFE2C60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: [PRR] Trains 580, 581 another question Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 21:40:45 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: While looking over the consist book on Rob's PRR site for these trains I noticed that 2 express X29's and one B60 got dropped off at Ridgway Pa. While Ridgway is on the P&E it is east of the section I am familiar with and I am wondering what was in small town of Ridgway that required 3 express cars. Also, Ben Hom the pages I printed from the consist book contained dashes in the PRR Classes :-) Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Train Symbol Question....... Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 22:16:29 -0500 PRR-Gize: Looking over the train sheets from Warsaw "KS" tower in 1965, I have = noticed differences in how multiple trains of the same symbol would be = called in the same day. The most common train with multiple sections was = WC-5, a.k.a. "The West Coast Clipper." This train primarily had blocks = of cars for Rock Island, Milwaukee and C&NW. There is listed in Mark = Bej's site an "Advance WC-5" whose schedule was approximately 12 hours = ahead (or behind) WC-5. Advance WC-5, or WC-5A's blocking had the = following railroads: Milwaukee, C&NW, CB&Q, and ATSF. At the same time, I have seen WC-5B's. Furthermore, I have seen 2 trains = named WC-5 on the same day. Here are my questions: 1.. What is the difference between an Advance train and a "B" train?=20 2.. What about multiple trains of the same symbol? Are the blockings = of these trains identical but they had more cars than one train could = handle? Any information that you can provide me would be greatly appreciated. Ted M. Andrews Carmel, Indiana ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C3E5EC.612A23A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
PRR-Gize:
 
Looking over the train sheets from Warsaw "KS" tower in 1965, I = have=20 noticed differences in how multiple trains of the same symbol would be = called in=20 the same day. The most common train with multiple sections was WC-5, = a.k.a. "The=20 West Coast Clipper." This train primarily had blocks of cars for = Rock=20 Island, Milwaukee and C&NW. There is listed in Mark Bej's site an = "Advance=20 WC-5" whose schedule was approximately 12 hours ahead (or behind) WC-5. = Advance=20 WC-5, or WC-5A's blocking had the following railroads: Milwaukee, = C&NW,=20 CB&Q, and ATSF.
 
At the same time, I have seen WC-5B's. Furthermore, I have seen 2 = trains=20 named WC-5  on the same day.
 
Here are my questions:
 
  1. What is the difference between an Advance train and a "B" train?=20
  2. What about multiple trains of the same symbol? Are the blockings = of these=20 trains identical but they had more cars than one train could = handle?
 
Any information that you can provide me would be greatly = appreciated.
 
 
 
Ted M. Andrews
Carmel, Indiana
------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C3E5EC.612A23A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mark Taylor" Subject: [PRR] Spectrum Color Question Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 22:02:07 -0500 From: "PennsyNut" Subject: Re: [PRR] H class models Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 21:00:18 -0600 Okay, now you've made me get mad enough to comment. LOL If - a manufacturer were to consider the H6, he/she could then consider = E5 and prior classes. We've discussed this before. If the H8/9/10 is lumped together, the E6 = "could" be considered (yeah - the firebox, the domes, etc. are = different.). But when counting numbers, and maketing, the H8/9/10 also = had some B&O counterparts. And I don't know how many others. So lumping K and L gets larger numbers. The huge numbers of the H/E = classes are more feasible. But look at how many K's have been produced. = Granted it was known by huge numbers of people who don't even know = Pennsy without the K4. So let me put in my vote again. LOL For the H6 and all those little = E's that "have they ever been made?". Brass is nice, but who can afford = it anymore. The day's of the little Lambert H6sb for under $50 are gone = forever. And a BLI version with DCC sound, etc. might be possible? Are we having fun yet? Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist, Proud SPF PRRTHS #1204 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.567 / Virus Database: 358 - Release Date: 01/24/2004 ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C3E5E1.BC1B1680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Okay, now you've made me get mad enough to=20 comment.  LOL
 
If - a manufacturer were to consider the H6, = he/she=20 could then consider E5 and prior classes.
 
We've discussed this before.  If the = H8/9/10 is=20 lumped together, the E6 "could" be considered (yeah - the firebox, = the=20 domes, etc. are different.).  But when counting numbers, and = maketing, the=20 H8/9/10 also had some B&O counterparts.  And I don't know how = many=20 others.
 
So lumping K and L gets larger numbers.  = The huge=20 numbers of the H/E classes are more feasible.  But look at how many = K's=20 have been produced.  Granted it was known by huge numbers of people = who=20 don't even know Pennsy without the K4.
 
So let me put in my vote again.  = LOL  For the=20 H6 and all those little E's that "have they ever been made?".  = Brass is=20 nice, but who can afford it anymore.  The day's of the little = Lambert H6sb=20 for under $50 are gone forever.  And a BLI version with DCC sound, = etc.=20 might be possible?
 
Are we having fun yet?
 
Morgan Bilbo
Ferroequinologist, Proud = SPF
PRRTHS=20 #1204
 

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus=20 Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: = 6.0.567 /=20 Virus Database: 358 - Release Date: = 01/24/2004
------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C3E5E1.BC1B1680-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ron & Marilyn Mele" Subject: [PRR] chautauqua branch Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 21:50:58 -0600 I'm doing some research for a magazine article on the Oil Creek & = Titusville RR which runs on a portion of the old PRR Chautauqua Branch. = For about 7 or 8 years during the 1960's, the branch was controlled from = a CTC board located in "EYE" tower in Corry, PA. I remember reading some = time ago that the CTC project was financed by money the PRR received = from the federal government as compensation for the forced abandonment = of the Salamanca Branch due to construction of the Kinzua Dam. These = were the same funds used by the PRR to purchase GE U25Bs. Does anyone = know when the Chautauqua CTC system went into operation? Also, when did = "EYE" tower close? I think the CTC machine moved from "EYE" to " = Bridge" at the very end of the PRR or within the first months of PC. My = 1967 PRR time table shows the branch controlled from"EYE" but my 1968 PC = timetable shows it controlled from "Bridge." Thanks for any information = on this subject. Ron Mele ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C3E5E8.D04BAE60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
I'm doing some research for a magazine = article on=20 the Oil Creek & Titusville RR which runs on a  portion of the = old PRR=20 Chautauqua Branch. For about 7 or 8 years during the 1960's, the = branch was=20 controlled from a CTC board located in "EYE" tower in Corry, PA. I = remember=20 reading some time ago that the CTC project was financed by money the PRR = received from the federal government as compensation for the forced = abandonment=20 of the Salamanca Branch due to construction of the Kinzua Dam. These = were the=20 same funds used by the PRR to purchase GE U25Bs.  Does anyone = know=20 when the Chautauqua CTC system went into operation? Also, when did "EYE" = tower close?  I think the CTC machine moved from "EYE" to "=20 Bridge" at the very end of the PRR or within the first months of = PC. My=20 1967 PRR time table shows the branch controlled from"EYE" but my 1968 PC = timetable shows it controlled from "Bridge."  Thanks for any=20 information on this subject.
 
Ron Mele
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C3E5E8.D04BAE60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred in Vt." Subject: [PRR] Springfield,Ma. Show Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 23:01:23 -0500 Fellow SPF's Springfied show is 10 days away. Other than the local = faithful, is anyone from afar planning to attend? This is a fine = opportunity to divest the instant refurnd from your tax preparer; or = that holiday cash that came in the cards! For those who may not have been up this way as yet, consider it as = a possibility. One of the Amherst folk claims this show is 22% larger = than last year, with more manufacturers on hand. Make that list of = questions now. Paul Ziesmer is the point man for a group of NE-SPF's who are = trying to promote interest in a NE chapter of the Society; we will be = congregating in the main hall at 2pm. Why not stop by, and meet the local crew. See y'all there---------Fred in Vt ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C3E5F2.A65831F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Fellow SPF's
          &nbs= p; =20 Springfied show is 10 days away. Other than the local faithful, is = anyone from=20 afar planning to attend? This is a fine opportunity to divest the = instant=20 refurnd from your tax preparer; or that holiday cash that came in the=20 cards!
      For = those who may=20 not have been up this way as yet, consider it as a possibility. One of = the=20 Amherst folk claims this show is 22% larger than last year, with more=20 manufacturers on hand. Make that list of questions now.
       = Paul Ziesmer=20 is the point man for a group of NE-SPF's who are trying to promote = interest in a=20 NE chapter of the Society; we will be congregating in the main hall at=20 2pm.
Why not stop by, and meet the local=20 crew.
          &nbs= p;            = ;     =20 See y'all there---------Fred in Vt
------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C3E5F2.A65831F0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 22:14:23 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Spectrum Color Question From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: > My question concerns the Bachmann Spectrum heavyweight passenger cars. Is > there a reason for the shade difference in the tuscan red (seems the > pre-war > are more red tint and the post-war are more brown tint). Anyone care to > comment? Mark Mark, That would be because pre-war and post war "tuscan" were different . If you look at Walther's R50B, you'll see the same thing, and I trust the colors on the R50B more as they were developed with the help of Greg Martin. Much of this has to do with the development of synthetic pigments and changes in paint formulation and technology over time. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John and Peg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Last 510 511 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 23:30:17 -0500 WAMMP, The Middle Division Time-Table No. 3, dated December 6, 1942, Lists Trains 510 and 511 on the Bald Eagle (Branch Tyrone - Lock Haven). The Middle Division Time Table No. 8, dated April 24, 1955, Does not list Trains 510 and 511. I realize this leaves a 12 or 13 year hole in your puzzle but, these are the only time tables I have. I hope this helps. I 'm sure someone else can help narrow this down for you. John Dolensky PRRTHS # 7102 -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of WAMMP236@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 4:55 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Last 510 511 Hello List, Does anyone have any information on the last run of Trains 510 and 511 on the Bald Eagle branch between Tyrone and Lock Haven? ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C3E5F6.AFD39360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
WAMMP,
 
The Middle Division Time-Table No. = 3, dated=20 December 6, 1942, Lists Trains 510 and 511 on the Bald Eagle (Branch = Tyrone -=20 Lock Haven).  The Middle = Division=20 Time Table No. 8, dated April 24, 1955, Does not list Trains 510 and = 511. =20 I realize this leaves a 12 or 13 = year hole=20 in your puzzle but, these are the only time tables I have.  = I hope this helps.  I 'm sure someone else can help narrow this = down for=20 you.
 
John Dolensky
PRRTHS # 7102
-----Original Message-----
From: = PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of = WAMMP236@aol.com
Sent:=20 Wednesday, January 28, 2004 4:55 PM
To:=20 prr-talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] Last 510 = 511

Hello List,
=
           &n= bsp; =20 Does anyone have any information on the last run of Trains 510 and 511 = on the=20 Bald Eagle branch between Tyrone and Lock=20 Haven?
------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C3E5F6.AFD39360-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Trains 580, 581 another question Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 23:34:58 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: >From the 1945 CT1000C: Russell Snowplow Co. Smith Bros. & Co. Keystone Tanning & Glue The Elliot Co. Ridgway Electric Co. --- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, Chautauqua branches web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian J Carlson" To: "PRR Talk" Cc: "PRR Fax" Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 9:40 PM Subject: [PRR] Trains 580, 581 another question > While looking over the consist book on Rob's PRR site for these trains I > noticed that 2 express X29's and one B60 got dropped off at Ridgway Pa. > While Ridgway is on the P&E it is east of the section I am familiar with and > I am wondering what was in small town of Ridgway that required 3 express > cars. > > Also, Ben Hom the pages I printed from the consist book contained dashes in > the PRR Classes :-) > > Brian J Carlson > Cheektowaga NY > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Re: [PRR] Trains 580, 581 another question Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 23:50:59 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry, I looked in my CT1000 also, none of those companies seemed to me to be big enough to warrant 3 express cars. However I probably am wrong. Warren is a much larger town with some substantial industry also and by the time that 581, 580 get to Warren only 2 B60's and 1 X29 are left for head end traffic. Of the 6 head end cars that, not counting the RPO, that left Harrisburg 3 got dropped at Ridgway. It just seems odd to me. Brian Carlson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Shickler" To: "PRR Talk" Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 11:34 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Trains 580, 581 another question > >From the 1945 CT1000C: > Russell Snowplow Co. > Smith Bros. & Co. > Keystone Tanning & Glue > The Elliot Co. > Ridgway Electric Co. > --- > Jerry Shickler > Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, Chautauqua branches web page at: > http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian J Carlson" > To: "PRR Talk" > Cc: "PRR Fax" > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 9:40 PM > Subject: [PRR] Trains 580, 581 another question > > > > While looking over the consist book on Rob's PRR site for these trains I > > noticed that 2 express X29's and one B60 got dropped off at Ridgway Pa. > > While Ridgway is on the P&E it is east of the section I am familiar with > and > > I am wondering what was in small town of Ridgway that required 3 express > > cars. > > > > Also, Ben Hom the pages I printed from the consist book contained dashes > in > > the PRR Classes :-) > > > > Brian J Carlson > > Cheektowaga NY > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] trainphone transmitter Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 23:57:18 -0500 Chuck, First, a little terminology. The disk structures used in the PRR = Inductive Train Communication equipment installations are receiving = coils. The loop structures that look like handrails, are the = transmitting loops, when used in conjunction with the receiving coils. I know of three sources for HO scale receiving coils (if they all still = exist): Cal Scale, Gloor Craft Models & Keystone Replicas. -The Cal Scale parts are brass castings with small diameter casting = sprues extending off the bottoms of the support brackets that can be = used to mount the parts into a hole in the model - a good thing for = helping to keep them from getting knocked off in their relatively = vulnerable locations. The prototype coil enclosures were 14.25" in = diameter and the height from the top of the coil to the bottom of a = "typical" mounting bracket was 24.125". These dimensions translate to = .164" diameter and .277" in height in HO. The Cal Scale parts measure = about .147" diameter by .310" high. -The Gloor Craft parts are soft metal castings with small nubs on the = bottoms of the brackets - less effective for robust attachment. They = measure about .176" diameter by .264" high. -The Keystone Replica parts are similar to the Cal Scale parts, being = brass castings with the sprues extending off the bases of the brackets. = They measure about .167" diameter by .270" high. The shapes of the Cal Scale and Gloor Craft coils are very similar and = look pretty close to the prototype. The Keystone part has a somewhat = exaggerated flange around its perimeter that is noticeable to the naked = eye (well, mine anyway!). So appearance-wise I would rank them 1) Gloor Craft, 2) Keystone, 3) Cal = Scale; Fidelity to prototype size would rank 1) Keystone, 2) Gloor Craft, 3) = Cal Scale Ease of attachment 1) Keystone & Cal Scale, 3) Gloor Craft Doing the math would suggest the Keystone Replicas part is the = "closest". Maybe somebody else out there can comment on availability of = these parts.=20 The information on positioning the Trainphone components is available = from PRR tracings, but it is spotty. Best bet is to throw out a request = for what application specifically you are looking for and see if anyone = can come up with it. I have some, I know others have others pieces of = the puzzle. A lot of us just use what the photos tell us. Jack Consoli=20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Chuck Friedlein=20 To: (PRR-Talk)=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 11:18 PM Subject: [PRR] trainphone transmitter Are there any thoughts on who manufactures the best HO scale version = of the trainphone transmitter disk? =20 I need to get some for future projects and want to get ones that are = the most accurate, if possible. =20 Also, is there any known reference as to where they would be = positioned (location and orientation) on steam & diesel locos and on = cabins? =20 TIA for any help, Chuck Friedlein ------=_NextPart_000_00BE_01C3E5FA.765B8580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Chuck,
 
First, a little terminology. The disk structures = used in the=20 PRR Inductive Train Communication equipment installations are receiving = coils.=20 The loop structures that look like handrails, are the transmitting = loops, when=20 used in conjunction with the receiving coils.
 
I know of three sources for HO = scale receiving coils=20 (if they all still exist):
 
Cal Scale, Gloor Craft Models & Keystone=20 Replicas.
 
-The Cal Scale parts are brass castings with small = diameter=20 casting sprues extending off the bottoms of the support brackets that = can be=20 used to mount the parts into a hole in the model - a good thing for = helping to=20 keep them from getting knocked off in their relatively vulnerable = locations. The=20 prototype coil enclosures were 14.25" in diameter and the height from = the top of=20 the coil to the bottom of a "typical" mounting bracket was 24.125". = These=20 dimensions translate to .164" diameter and .277" in height in HO. The = Cal Scale=20 parts measure about .147" diameter by .310" high.
 
-The Gloor Craft parts are soft metal castings with = small nubs=20 on the bottoms of the brackets - less effective for robust attachment. = They=20 measure about .176" diameter by .264" high.
 
-The Keystone Replica parts are similar to the Cal = Scale=20 parts, being brass castings with the sprues extending off the bases of = the=20 brackets. They measure about .167" diameter by .270" high.
 
The shapes of the Cal Scale and Gloor = Craft coils=20 are very similar and look pretty close to the prototype. The = Keystone part=20 has a somewhat exaggerated flange around its perimeter that is = noticeable=20 to the naked eye (well, mine anyway!).
 
So appearance-wise I would rank them 1) Gloor Craft, = 2)=20 Keystone, 3) Cal Scale;
Fidelity to prototype size would rank 1) Keystone, = 2) Gloor=20 Craft, 3) Cal Scale
Ease of attachment 1) Keystone & Cal Scale, 3) = Gloor=20 Craft
 
Doing the math would suggest the Keystone Replicas = part is the=20 "closest".  Maybe somebody else out there can comment on = availability of=20 these parts.
 
The information on positioning the Trainphone = components is=20 available from PRR tracings, but it is spotty. Best bet is to throw out = a=20 request for what application specifically you are looking = for and see=20 if anyone can come up with it. I have some, I know others have others = pieces of=20 the puzzle. A lot of us just use what the photos tell us.
 
 
 
Jack Consoli 
 
 
   
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Chuck Friedlein
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 = 11:18=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] trainphone=20 transmitter

Are there any thoughts on who manufactures the = best HO scale=20 version of the trainphone transmitter disk?
 
I need to get some for future projects and want to = get ones=20 that are the most accurate, if possible.
 
Also, is there any known reference as to where = they would be=20 positioned (location and orientation) on steam & diesel locos = and on=20 cabins?
 
TIA for any help,
Chuck Friedlein

------=_NextPart_000_00BE_01C3E5FA.765B8580-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 21:14:17 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Trains 580, 581 another question From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] M1b Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 23:18:31 -0600 You and Bruce are correct. Forgot that. I can't even defend myself by = saying drivers were changed from unflanged to flanged at a point in = their lives (like some other Pennsy locos) 'cuz I find no evidence that = occured with the M classes. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message -----=20 From: J. Smith=20 The blind drivers are prototypical. The real M-1a at the RRMofPA in = Strasburg has blind drivers. ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01C3E5F5.0B2DE050 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
You and Bruce are correct.  Forgot = that. =20 I can't even defend myself by saying drivers were changed from unflanged = to=20 flanged at a point in their lives (like some other Pennsy locos) 'cuz I = find no=20 evidence that occured with the M classes.
 
Bob Zoeller
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 J.=20 Smith

The blind drivers are = prototypical.  The=20 real M-1a at the RRMofPA in Strasburg has blind drivers.
 
------=_NextPart_000_0040_01C3E5F5.0B2DE050-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Spectrum Color Question Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 23:38:27 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The prewar Bachmann are painted tuscan red. The postwar Bachmann have a bilious (IMNSHO) salmon colored dye molded into the plastic. Some say the latter fairly represents a faded tuscan color. I just don't like it and have gradually traded out most of my postwar for prewar cars, though now I have stopped to build up the better ECW coach kits I've had around in a box. The prewar Bachmann cars have correct olive roofs and trucks, but it resembles grimy black close enough I like it for postwar use. I did repaint one of the postwar diners in tuscan. Combination of the more correct paint plus the sharper and more correct Pennsy lettering and striping really stopped a few people at train shows viewing it on our modular layout, as they had to study it to figure out who made it. As always, YMMV. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Taylor" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 9:02 PM Subject: [PRR] Spectrum Color Question > My question concerns the Bachmann Spectrum heavyweight passenger cars. Is > there a reason for the shade difference in the tuscan red (seems the pre-war > are more red tint and the post-war are more brown tint). Anyone care to > comment? Mark > > _________________________________________________________________ > Rethink your business approach for the new year with the helpful tips here. > http://special.msn.com/bcentral/prep04.armx > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chuck Friedlein" Subject: Re: [PRR] trainphone transmitter Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 06:56:53 -0500 Jack, Thanks for setting me straight on the terminology. Over the years = I've seen each described as the other part, and honestly didn't know = which to believe. I know I have a book somewhere in my library that = explains it correctly, but haven't had a chance to go through them all = to find out which it is to look it up. I'll have to look for the Gloor Craft and Keystone brands to see if = they're still available. Bowser owns and markets Cal Scale, so I know I = can get those. ** Does anybody out there on the List know where I can get some = Gloor Craft or Keystone parts----or have a set or two of either they'd = be willing to sell? Please contact me off list if you do. TIA Thanks for the dimensions and characteristics of each. That's a big = help. As to tracings that might show location(s), I'll try looking at George = Elwood's site, but would you know of any sources? I have a variety = of models I'm thinking of putting these on, so at this time I'm not = think of any specific one(s). Thanks, Chuck ----- Original Message -----=20 From: jconsoli=20 To: Chuck Friedlein=20 Cc: (PRR-Talk)=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 11:57 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] trainphone transmitter Chuck, First, a little terminology. The disk structures used in the PRR = Inductive Train Communication equipment installations are receiving = coils. The loop structures that look like handrails, are the = transmitting loops, when used in conjunction with the receiving coils. I know of three sources for HO scale receiving coils (if they all = still exist): Cal Scale, Gloor Craft Models & Keystone Replicas. -The Cal Scale parts are brass castings with small diameter casting = sprues extending off the bottoms of the support brackets that can be = used to mount the parts into a hole in the model - a good thing for = helping to keep them from getting knocked off in their relatively = vulnerable locations. The prototype coil enclosures were 14.25" in = diameter and the height from the top of the coil to the bottom of a = "typical" mounting bracket was 24.125". These dimensions translate to = .164" diameter and .277" in height in HO. The Cal Scale parts measure = about .147" diameter by .310" high. -The Gloor Craft parts are soft metal castings with small nubs on = the bottoms of the brackets - less effective for robust attachment. They = measure about .176" diameter by .264" high. -The Keystone Replica parts are similar to the Cal Scale parts, = being brass castings with the sprues extending off the bases of the = brackets. They measure about .167" diameter by .270" high. The shapes of the Cal Scale and Gloor Craft coils are very similar = and look pretty close to the prototype. The Keystone part has a somewhat = exaggerated flange around its perimeter that is noticeable to the naked = eye (well, mine anyway!). So appearance-wise I would rank them 1) Gloor Craft, 2) Keystone, 3) = Cal Scale; Fidelity to prototype size would rank 1) Keystone, 2) Gloor Craft, = 3) Cal Scale Ease of attachment 1) Keystone & Cal Scale, 3) Gloor Craft Doing the math would suggest the Keystone Replicas part is the = "closest". Maybe somebody else out there can comment on availability of = these parts.=20 The information on positioning the Trainphone components is = available from PRR tracings, but it is spotty. Best bet is to throw out = a request for what application specifically you are looking for and see = if anyone can come up with it. I have some, I know others have others = pieces of the puzzle. A lot of us just use what the photos tell us. Jack Consoli=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C3E635.13EA8E60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Jack,
Thanks for setting me straight on the = terminology. =20 Over the years I've seen each described as the other part, and = honestly didn't=20 know which to believe.  I know I have a = book somewhere in=20 my library that explains it correctly, but haven't had a chance = to go=20 through them all to find out which it is to look it = up.
 
I'll have to look for the Gloor Craft and Keystone = brands to=20 see if they're still available.  Bowser owns and markets Cal = Scale, so I=20 know I can get those.
 
  ** Does anybody out there on the List = know where=20 I can get some Gloor Craft or Keystone parts----or have a set or two = of either=20 they'd be willing to sell?  Please contact me off list if you=20 do.   TIA
 
Thanks for the dimensions and characteristics of = each. =20 That's a big help.
 
As to tracings that might show location(s), I'll = try looking=20 at George Elwood's site, but would you know of any=20 sources?      I have a variety of models I'm = thinking=20 of putting these on, so at this time I'm not think of any specific=20 one(s).
 
Thanks,
Chuck
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 jconsoli
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, = 2004 11:57=20 PM
Subject: Re: [PRR] trainphone = transmitter

Chuck,
 
First, a little terminology. The disk structures = used in=20 the PRR Inductive Train Communication equipment installations are = receiving=20 coils. The loop structures that look like handrails, are the = transmitting=20 loops, when used in conjunction with the receiving = coils.
 
I know of three sources for HO = scale receiving=20 coils (if they all still exist):
 
Cal Scale, Gloor Craft Models & Keystone=20 Replicas.
 
-The Cal Scale parts are brass castings with = small=20 diameter casting sprues extending off the bottoms of the support = brackets=20 that can be used to mount the parts into a hole in the model - a = good thing=20 for helping to keep them from getting knocked off in their = relatively=20 vulnerable locations. The prototype coil enclosures were 14.25" in = diameter=20 and the height from the top of the coil to the bottom of a "typical" = mounting bracket was 24.125". These dimensions translate to .164" = diameter=20 and .277" in height in HO. The Cal Scale parts measure about .147" = diameter=20 by .310" high.
 
-The Gloor Craft parts are soft metal castings = with small=20 nubs on the bottoms of the brackets - less effective for robust = attachment.=20 They measure about .176" diameter by .264" high.
 
-The Keystone Replica parts are similar to the = Cal Scale=20 parts, being brass castings with the sprues extending off the bases = of the=20 brackets. They measure about .167" diameter by .270" = high.
 
The shapes of the Cal Scale and Gloor = Craft=20 coils are very similar and look pretty close to the prototype. = The=20 Keystone part has a somewhat exaggerated flange around its = perimeter=20 that is noticeable to the naked eye (well, mine = anyway!).
 
So appearance-wise I would rank them 1) Gloor = Craft, 2)=20 Keystone, 3) Cal Scale;
Fidelity to prototype size would rank 1) = Keystone, 2)=20 Gloor Craft, 3) Cal Scale
Ease of attachment 1) Keystone & Cal Scale, = 3) Gloor=20 Craft
 
Doing the math would suggest the Keystone = Replicas part is=20 the "closest".  Maybe somebody else out there can comment on=20 availability of these parts.
 
The information on positioning the Trainphone = components=20 is available from PRR tracings, but it is spotty. Best bet is to = throw out a=20 request for what application specifically you are looking = for and=20 see if anyone can come up with it. I have some, I know others have = others=20 pieces of the puzzle. A lot of us just use what the photos tell=20 us.
 
Jack Consoli 
 

------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C3E635.13EA8E60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Trains 580, 581 another question Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:26:01 -0500 I seem to remember a paper plant being in Ridgeway. Don't know what kind of paper the NY & Penna produced but it might very well have been newsprint. WDV -----Original Message----- From: robert netzlof [mailto:wb3iqe@rocketmail.com] Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 12:14 AM To: Brian J Carlson; Jerry Shickler; PRR Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] Trains 580, 581 another question --- Brian J Carlson wrote: > Jerry, I looked in my CT1000 also, none of those companies seemed > to me to > be big enough to warrant 3 express cars. More to the point, perhaps, none of them would seem to have a need for express cars. (See below) > ...by the > time that 581, 580 get to Warren only 2 B60's and 1 X29 are left > for head > end traffic. Of the 6 head end cars that, not counting the RPO, > that left > Harrisburg 3 got dropped at Ridgway. It just seems odd to me. > > >From the 1945 CT1000C: > > Russell Snowplow Co. <-- What else, snow plows > > Smith Bros. & Co. <-- Don't know, but it was a small wholesale grocer in more recent times > > Keystone Tanning & Glue <-- Leather, glue > > The Elliott Co. <-- by 1945, electric motors > > Ridgway Electric Co. <-- by 1945, probably just a substation (if it ever was anything else) Perhaps the 3 cars were empty by the time they got Ridgway? So, rather than lug them up the steep grade to Kane, they were dropped at Ridgway, to be returned to Harrisburg on the return trip? It is also possible, I suppose, that some one car might have run down the Ridgway Branch to DuBois with newspapers or some such. (Was there passenger service on the Ridgway Branch in 1945?) ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_000_0094_01C3E641.87A4E7E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Message
I seem=20 to remember a paper plant being in Ridgeway.  Don't know what kind = of paper=20 the NY & Penna produced but it might very well have been=20 newsprint.
 
WDV
-----Original Message-----
From: = robert netzlof=20 [mailto:wb3iqe@rocketmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 29, = 2004=20 12:14 AM
To: Brian J Carlson; Jerry Shickler; PRR=20 Talk
Subject: Re: [PRR] Trains 580, 581 another=20 question

--- Brian J Carlson <brian@net.bluemoon.net>=20 wrote:
> Jerry, I looked in my CT1000 also, none of those = companies=20 seemed
> to me to
> be big enough to warrant 3 express=20 cars.

More to the point, perhaps, none of them would seem to = have a=20 need
for express cars. (See below)

> ...by the
> = time that=20 581, 580 get to Warren only 2 B60's and 1 X29 are left
> for=20 head
> end traffic.  Of the 6 head end cars that, not = counting the=20 RPO,
> that left
> Harrisburg 3 got dropped at = Ridgway.  It=20 just seems odd to me.

> > >From the 1945 = CT1000C:
> >=20 Russell Snowplow Co. <-- What else, snow plows
> > Smith = Bros.=20 & Co. <-- Don't know, but it was a small wholesale
grocer in = more=20 recent times
> > Keystone Tanning & Glue <-- Leather,=20 glue
> > The Elliott Co. <-- by 1945, electric = motors
> >=20 Ridgway Electric Co. <-- by 1945, probably just a substation = (if
it ever=20 was anything else)

Perhaps the 3 cars were empty by the time = they got=20 Ridgway? So,
rather than lug them up the steep grade to Kane, they = were=20 dropped at
Ridgway, to be returned to Harrisburg on the return = trip? It is=20 also
possible, I suppose, that some one car might have run down=20 the
Ridgway Branch to DuBois with newspapers or some such. (Was=20 there
passenger service on the Ridgway Branch in = 1945?)

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Bob=20 Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old=20 Bob


__________________________________
Do you = Yahoo!?
Yahoo!=20 SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/p= s/sb/

--------------------------------------------------------= ---------------
For=20 assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

<= /P>

------=_NextPart_000_0094_01C3E641.87A4E7E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "dfc PRR 7002" Subject: [PRR] M1b---help? Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:23:33 -0500 Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 05:41:19 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: RE: [PRR] Trains 580, 581 another question X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:58:38 GMT Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/29/04 From: Dominic Mazoch X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:59:03 GMT Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/29/04 From: Dominic Mazoch X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 14:01:46 GMT Subject: [PRR] Yellow Question From: Dominic Mazoch From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:22:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] trainphone transmitter MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Chuck, Jack, You know, I am still kickin myself for not buying these Keystone Replica Trainphone items the last time I saw them at a atrain show, about 10 years ago. I did get some Water Hatches, Dog House and something else I can't think of right now, but left the coils. Dang! These were made available by PRRT&HS member Charlie H. That is why they are very close to PRR dimensions. He also made available some nice PRR Tenders. I have the 110P-75a. Finding these items is a bit tough these days. Check in the parts boxes some dealers have at train shows. You might get lucky. Most Hobby shops would not have these around anymore. I do recall a Brass dealer having one of the tenders llisted on the net somewhere. Maybe it was Mitchells? It was painted and priced at $199.00.....Good Luck, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:29:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Yellow Question MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Dom, When I bought and built my Westerfield Yellow Kid train when it was first released, the instructions called for the mixing of certain colors. It is a pale yellow, unlike the deeper yellow found on MW equipment. I will try to find those instructions and let you know what the mix ratios were. I do have some photos of my cars on the 2nd page of he 3rd website listed below. The only ones I have ever seen built by anyone! I almost painted them in the normal Tuscan/Black of that era too but stuck with the more colorful scheme of the Yellow Kid. ..Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:31:02 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] M1b---help? From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, January 29, 2004, at 07:23 AM, dfc PRR 7002 wrote: > My M1b will not power up. No lights, no sound, no movement, nada. I > have tried three differrent power packs, two of them older MRC packs > in the copper cases. I have also tried a Spectrum Magnum. NOthing > has happened so far. I have not attempted to take anything apart as > of yet and no, I canno t program anything since nothing happens. > Advice?? I had one of my M1As DOA as well (on DCC). You need to perform a "hard reset" if you have not already. This is how to do it for DCC...I ASSUME (always dangerous) that you need to do it similarly for DC...as always, check you manual first (Yeah, I know, most of us have a Y chromosome and that is an anathema, but according to the X chromosomes in the family, it really works !) Open the tender shell (remove the two screws in the bottom) being careful of the wires to the volume adjuster thingy. With the power off, remove the jumper plug. Turn the power on. You should get three whistle toots (sometimes I only get one...don't know what that means!). Turn the power off and put the jumper plug back. Turn the power back on and you should be back in the groove. If not, something is serious wrong with the board and you need to contact BLI directly for a warrantee replacement. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Aerotrain Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 14:37:33 +0000 From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] trainphone transmitter Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:47:38 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, I have them for S Scale. How many do you want? (:->) I also have the real PRR drawing of it, full size. It is not handy at this time though. Thanks, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:56:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Aerotrain MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Norm, If this event took place, the coupling on the first car would have had to be changed over to the normal coupler as the Aerotrain had its own type of coupling. Not a draw bar like Varney/Bowser but a smaller knuckle/scissor type. Someone emailed me some pics once of photos found in an Aerotrain brochure that showed these couplers. It didn't appear they were compatible to let a GG1 pull the train. But, if it did happen, then some type of modifaction was done.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] trainphone transmitter Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:01:01 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 In-Reply-To: <195-4019172C-82@storefull-3118.bay.webtv.net> Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Re: Charlie Horan's tenders and parts. I think Charlie may still have some of these parts. I know he has a lot of water hatches as that was one of the many subjects of discussion during our drive to Cocoa Beach. However, he does not lurk on PRR-Talk. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:08:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE: [PRR] trainphone transmitter MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, Thought I would throw this in as well. This is a photo of one of our local NRHS chapter members restored N8. He actually found someone who had an original coil and had several cast in aluminum so he could attach to his Cabin. They look as though they can make contact with the next tower ahead! http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/new25.jpg .........Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 07:30:54 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] Yellow Question From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:35:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Yellow Question MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Dom, Here is what Westerfield explained in the instruction sheet to get the colors of the Yellow Kid: Yellow: Start with Floquil Antique White or Reefer White and add about 50% Floquil Railbox Yellow (2:1 ratio) Green: Floquil Reading Green Red: Floquil Signal Red Mahogany: Floquil ATSF Freight Car Color and add Floquil Roof Brown drop by drop to match Floquil Flostain Mahogany color. Good Luck....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Trains 580, 581 another question Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:49:52 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-MDRemoteIP: 192.0.1.150 X-Return-Path: geshick@velocity.net X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: prr-talk@dsop.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Brian, Which document are you looking at? What year? Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:01:53 -0500 From: Drew McGhee Subject: NYPenn was RE: [PRR] Trains 580, 581 another question Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:20:30 -0500 From: Tom Hayden Subject: [PRR] Broadway vs Bowser From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] M1b---help? Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:23:23 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Clean. Clean. Clean. My T1 was ready out of the box. My M1b wheels, tender wipers, were absolutely filthy. Also, make sure there is correct tension on the contacts on tender trucks. I just had a problem with my M1b dying and BLI suggested I do a reset by removing the jumper in tender, then repowering, then replacing jumper after three whistle blasts (as in the manual back page) . Reset did the job, but I had to clean the wheels and wipers in addition. BTW, the instructions aren't clear that you need to remove the two screws on tender bottom to remove shell. You do. BLI helped me within hours in response to an email. I seem to be up and running now. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: "dfc PRR 7002" To: Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 7:23 AM Subject: [PRR] M1b---help? > My M1b will not power up. No lights, no sound, no movement, nada. I have > tried three differrent power packs, two of them older MRC packs in the > copper cases. I have also tried a Spectrum Magnum. NOthing has happened so > far. I have not attempted to take anything apart as of yet and no, I canno > t program anything since nothing happens. Advice?? > > > > DF Cramer--Teacher-Trombonist-Conductor-Historian > www.geocities.com/armconband > > _________________________________________________________________ > Learn how to choose, serve, and enjoy wine at Wine @ MSN. > http://wine.msn.com/ > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Broadway vs Bowser Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:41:41 -0500 Based upon my tests to date with the new M1, Bowser still wins the = drawbar contest hands down. My Bowser L1s with a Helix Humper outpoll the new = M1 almost 2 to 1 ! =20 Last night I took my new M! home and added weight behind the motor. = Tonight at the club I will put it first on the electronic scale to see just how = much weight I was able to add, and second on a long freight, to see what improvement it made over the anemic 15 cars it managed up the mountain Tuesday. Stay tuned. =20 regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Tom = Hayden Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:21 AM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Broadway vs Bowser On Monday, January 26, 2004, at 08:29 AM, Sam Vastano wrote: > I have been thinking about how Broadway Limited will effect the price=20 > of the brass locomotives? Any opinions? On Jan 26, Bruce Smith wrote: The impact that=20 has me wondering is on Bowser. I cannot imagine why anyone would=20 actually buy one of their (innacurate) T1 models at this point. It=20 can't be price, because by the time you've fixed the Bowser (the parts=20 that can be fixed) and added sound, you've equalled the price of the=20 BLI. Any new BLI PRR steam will almost certainly impact on Bowser and Sunset=20 as well...I1, L1, H9/10, B6, etc... I do see Bruce's point, though I'm not 100 % convinced there is not = still a place for the Bowser products. From comments I have seen here and on = other lists, there is a large segment of our hobby that does NOT want sound. = And a little modeling effort (which is what quite a few of us enjoy more than operating ) can bring a Bowser to a pretty high level model.=20 But Bruce, I am wondering just what specific inaccuracies do you find = in the Bowser T1 ? Just wondering if there are any that I have not noticed myself.=20 Tom Hayden=20 ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C3E65C.DCBD5080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Message
Based=20 upon my tests to date with the new M1, Bowser still wins the = drawbar=20 contest hands down.  My Bowser L1s with a Helix Humper outpoll the = new M1=20 almost 2 to 1 !
 
Last=20 night I took my new M! home and added weight behind the motor. Tonight = at the=20 club I will put it first on the electronic scale to see just how much = weight I=20 was able to add, and second on a long freight, to see what improvement = it made=20 over the anemic 15 cars it managed up the mountain Tuesday.  Stay=20 tuned.
 
regards,
Andy Miller
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Tom=20 Hayden
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:21 = AM
To:=20 PRR-Talk
Subject: [PRR] Broadway vs = Bowser


On=20 Monday, January 26, 2004, at 08:29 AM, Sam Vastano wrote:
> I = have=20 been thinking about how Broadway Limited will effect the price =
> of=20 the brass locomotives?  Any = opinions?

On Jan 26, Bruce Smith wrote:
 The impact that =
has me=20 wondering is on Bowser.  I cannot imagine why anyone would =
actually=20 buy one of their (innacurate) T1 models at this point.  It =
can't be=20 price, because by the time you've fixed the Bowser (the parts =
that can=20 be fixed) and added sound, you've equalled the price of the=20
BLI.

Any new BLI PRR steam will almost certainly impact = on Bowser=20 and Sunset
as well...I1, L1, H9/10, B6, etc...

I = do see=20 Bruce's point, though I'm not 100 % convinced there is not still a = place for=20 the Bowser products. From comments I have seen here and on other = lists, there=20 is a large segment of our hobby that does NOT want sound. And a little = modeling effort (which is what quite a few of us enjoy more than = operating )=20 can bring a Bowser to a pretty high level model.

 But = Bruce, I am=20 wondering just what specific inaccuracies do you find in the Bowser T1 = ? =20 Just wondering if there are any that I have not noticed myself. =

Tom=20 Hayden
------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C3E65C.DCBD5080-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] M1b---help? Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:49:26 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <001701c3e684$38052a40$6401a8c0@ownery8cl2csk3> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Re: BTW, the instructions aren't clear that you need to remove the two screws on tender bottom to remove shell. You do. This is an excellent point Bob Z. A friend tried to remove it in the same manner as the T1 and cracked the tender shell. Bummer. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:14:59 -0600 Subject: Re: { SPAM 1 }::[PRR] Broadway vs Bowser From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On Thursday, January 29, 2004, at 10:20 AM, Tom Hayden wrote: > =A0But Bruce, I am wondering just what specific inaccuracies do you = find=20 > in the Bowser T1 ?=A0 Just wondering if there are any that I have not=20= > noticed myself. Tom, Well, you escaped the worst one with your model because you used the=20 old style tender ;^) The new cast tender, with its full topside=20 streamlining is a real problem. First, because of the casting=20 approach, the entire area under the sheet metal is filled with metal. =20= This pushes all of the details into a central "ditch" down the back of=20= the tender. When it was released we had extensive discussions about=20 milling it down and adding brass, or modifying it to resemble the=20 tender with sheathing removed (as yours is). Second, the model as sold=20= only represents one locomotive (from photos) and only for a few months.=20= The pairing of a fully sheathed tender and a modified front loco is=20 only seen on the shots of 5511 just after her front end mods. Add in=20 the fact that the Bowser has a fog light and I think you may just go to=20= no locos at all with that combination...Fixing this problem requires=20 junking the new tender and either getting an old one or scrounging a=20 BLI or brass tender, or backdating the front end to portholes. I took=20= the "easy way" and numbered mine 5511, but now that I have a BLI, I'm=20 going to look more seriously at what it will take to do a porthole=20 front end (along with a 6110 nose) so that I can have a T1 for my 1944=20= period. Locomotive Workshop was offering this at one point, but he has=20= disappeared from the web... Other issues can be fixed, like the *^&% screws in the boiler top. =20 Your fix looks pretty nice, although I would prefer not to have them=20 there at all...Bowser could have done us all a favor and re-engineered=20= the chassis to a bottom mount style when they redid the body. Now that=20= the BLI is out, I'm also going to look at getting flange-less drivers=20 for axles 2 and 3 on my Bowser to allow my "rigid chassis" to negotiate=20= those curves As for the rest of the detailing issues, I refer=20 readers to your TKM articles ! I'm also not totally anti-Bowser. Some aspects, in particular the=20 piping details, are definitely better than the BLI T1, however, the=20 detail, when considered in toto, is far superior on the BLI T1. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin=20 Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-8-452535051 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thursday, January 29, 2004, at 10:20 AM, Tom Hayden wrote: Helvetica=A0But Bruce, I am wondering just what specific inaccuracies do you find in the Bowser T1 ?=A0 Just wondering if there are any that I have not noticed myself. Tom, Well, you escaped the worst one with your model because you used the old style tender ;^) The new cast tender, with its full topside streamlining is a real problem. First, because of the casting approach, the entire area under the sheet metal is filled with metal.=20 This pushes all of the details into a central "ditch" down the back of the tender. When it was released we had extensive discussions about milling it down and adding brass, or modifying it to resemble the tender with sheathing removed (as yours is). Second, the model as sold only represents one locomotive (from photos) and only for a few months. The pairing of a fully sheathed tender and a modified front loco is only seen on the shots of 5511 just after her front end mods.=20 Add in the fact that the Bowser has a fog light and I think you may just go to no locos at all with that combination...Fixing this problem requires junking the new tender and either getting an old one or scrounging a BLI or brass tender, or backdating the front end to portholes. I took the "easy way" and numbered mine 5511, but now that I have a BLI, I'm going to look more seriously at what it will take to do a porthole front end (along with a 6110 nose) so that I can have a T1 for my 1944 period. Locomotive Workshop was offering this at one point, but he has disappeared from the web... Other issues can be fixed, like the *^&% screws in the boiler top.=20 Your fix looks pretty nice, although I would prefer not to have them there at all...Bowser could have done us all a favor and re-engineered the chassis to a bottom mount style when they redid the body. Now that the BLI is out, I'm also going to look at getting flange-less drivers for axles 2 and 3 on my Bowser to allow my "rigid chassis" to negotiate those curves < As for the rest of the detailing issues, I refer readers to your TKM articles <! I'm also not totally anti-Bowser. Some aspects, in particular the piping details, are definitely better than the BLI T1, however, the detail, when considered in toto, is far superior on the BLI T1. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. =20 Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-8-452535051-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:35:15 -0500 From: Tom Hayden Subject: Re: { SPAM 1 }::[PRR] Broadway vs Bowser From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:52:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] PRR Trust Plates, MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, Anyone here familiar with PRR Trust Plates and the history of how they were used? I am not really after info such as what series plates went with what equipment, at least I don't think so, but rather what the plates use was. This is my understnding as of now. I beiieve when the PRR wanted to purchase Locos or whatever rolling stock they wanted to acquire, and they didn't have the funds to purchase outright, the need to barrow the money came to be. When the money was barrowed, those certain pieces of equipment once delivered recieved a trust plate stating the source of the funding. Am I correct so far? OK now, when the funds were eventually paid back, was there a certain step followed for the removal of these plates? Did the finacial people come out to remove the plates or was the PRR allowed to? Slight converation via email a little while ago concerning the BLI M1a/b's and the lack of Trust Plates started me thinking and looking for photo proof of these locos having Trust Plates. Funny thing is I couldn't find anything yet showing these locos having Trust Plates, but the straight M1 class having them. If my reasoning is correct, did the PRR have the funds to purchase/construct outright, all the M1a's without having to barrow funds? Spotting an M1 with a Trust Plate as late as 1946 is a bt strange I thought too. Was this loco not paid off yet? If anyone has info regarding this stuff, please share if possible. Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] X31a photo Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:08:25 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, Does anyone have a good dead side shot of a double door X31a in Shadow Keystone? I have one in the Color Guide Vol. 1, but that is not close up, or a dead side. I was hoping for a 1MB JPG+ photo, not necessarily color, so I can print it out. Please reply with the photo to billlane@comcast.net as I don't receive email from some of my Yahoo groups Thanks, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] ATTENTION BLI M-1b owners!!!! Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:25:06 +0000 From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:32:48 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway vs Bowser On Jan 26, Bruce Smith wrote: > The impact that > has me wondering is on Bowser. I cannot imagine why anyone would > actually buy one of their (innacurate) T1 models at this point. It > can't be price, because by the time you've fixed the Bowser (the parts > that can be fixed) and added sound, you've equalled the price of the > BLI. > > Any new BLI PRR steam will almost certainly impact on Bowser and Sunset > as well...I1, L1, H9/10, B6, etc... > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > - I do see Bruce's point, though I'm not 100 % convinced there is not still a place for the Bowser products. From comments I have seen here and on other lists, there is a large segment of our hobby that does NOT want sound. And a little modeling effort (which is what quite a few of us enjoy more than operating ) can bring a Bowser to a pretty high level model. Tom Hayden ------------------------------------------------------ Folks, I have to agree with Tom here. I could care less about the sound equipment (though it does take me back to my childhood admiration of American Flyer's Choo-choo sounds). At this point I,m hardly ready to forget Bowser and begin lapping up BLI goods, especially after looking at a couple of them at the local shop. (I'm speaking of BLI's NYC Hudson who's detail was far, far, far below that of the Athearn Genesis USRA offerings, and the cast-on piping metal etc offered on their 'economy' models). We don't even know how long BLI will be around. Perhaps they'll become another staple of the hobby, or they could go the way of many another importer. And how about parts? Do they offer an inventory of parts, either as replacements or as detail add-ons? And are their products ongoing inventory items or are they buy it now or forget it producers? I have to hope they don't hurt a good old steady builder like Bowser. Unless BLI plans to produce pretty nice Pennsy cabin cars and freight cars at a very reasonable price, things like loco and caboose antannae sets, Cal-scale detail parts (it's nice to be able to pick up an occasional brass Andrews truck set) and the myriad other goods that Bowser offers, and makes them steadily available, I don't have a whole lot of affinity with them. Regards, Barry Peltier --part1_ea.45e0f29f.2d4ad600_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" On Jan=20= 26, Bruce Smith wrote:
The impact that
has me wondering is on Bowser.  I cannot imagine why anyone would
actually buy one of their (innacurate) T1 models at this point.  It can't be price, because by the time you've fixed the Bowser (the parts
that can be fixed) and added sound, you've equalled the price of the
BLI.

Any new BLI PRR steam will almost certainly impact on Bowser and Sunset
as well...I1, L1, H9/10, B6, etc...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------= --

I do see Bruce's point, though I'm not 100 % convinced there is not still a=20= place for the Bowser products. From comments I have seen here and on other l= ists, there is a large segment of our hobby that does NOT want sound. And a=20= little modeling effort (which is what quite a few of us enjoy more than oper= ating ) can bring a Bowser to a pretty high level model.
Tom Hayden
------------------------------------------------------

Folks,
I have to agree with Tom here.  I could care less about the sound equip= ment (though it does take me back to my childhood admiration of American Fly= er's Choo-choo sounds).  At this point I,m hardly ready to forget Bowse= r and begin lapping up BLI goods, especially after looking at a couple of th= em at the local shop. (I'm speaking of BLI's NYC Hudson who's detail was far= , far, far below that of the Athearn Genesis USRA offerings, and the cast-on= piping metal etc offered on their 'economy' models).

We don't even know how long BLI will be around. Perhaps they'll become anoth= er staple of the hobby, or they could go the way of many another importer. A= nd how about parts? Do they offer an inventory of parts, either as replaceme= nts or as detail add-ons?  And are their products ongoing inventory ite= ms or are they buy it now or forget it producers?

I have to hope they don't hurt a good old steady builder like Bowser. Unless= BLI plans to produce pretty nice Pennsy cabin cars and freight cars at a ve= ry reasonable price, things like loco and caboose antannae sets, Cal-scale d= etail parts (it's nice to be able to pick up an occasional brass Andrews tru= ck set) and the myriad other goods that Bowser offers, and makes them steadi= ly available, I don't have a whole lot of affinity with them.
Regards,
Barry Peltier


 --part1_ea.45e0f29f.2d4ad600_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: WAMMP236@aol.com Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:44:22 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Aerotrain Hello, The Aerotrain had a direct connection to the Tubular ( I believe it was THE AFTERNOON KEYSTONE) train at Philadelphia 30th Street Station. It did not run through to New York. Bill -------------------------------1075412662 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Hello,
        The Aerotrain had a dir= ect connection to the Tubular ( I believe it was THE AFTERNOON KEYSTONE)&nbs= p;train at Philadelphia 30th Street Station.  It did not run through to= New York.
            = ;            &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;            = ;            &nb= sp;       Bill
-------------------------------1075412662-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "dfc PRR 7002" Subject: Re: [PRR] M1b---help? Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 17:29:14 -0500 >From: Bruce Smith >Subject: Re: [PRR] M1b---help? >Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:31:02 -0600 From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Trust Plates, Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 18:06:20 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gary, Virtually all railroads purchased locomotives and rolling stock using Equipment Trust Certificates, which was basically a fifteen year mortgage on the equipment. For many years, pre-computer, cast plates were affixed to cars and locomotives purchased under equipment trusts. These were considered an extremely good investment, so only the best and biggest banks and financiers got the business. Now, I don't know where the trust plates were on T1's, but I do recall a lineup of dead J1's in Columbus that were lined up in order of the expiration of their trust plates, to be sent to scrap as soon as the certificate was paid off. These were located at the bottom front of the cab on the fireman's side. Most boxcars had them in the upper left corner of the sides. A 1930 M1a would not have been paid for before 1945, so it might still sport a trust plate in 1946. They were usually removed when the equipment was repainted. About the only major railroad that didn't buy almost all of its equipment via equipment trust certificates in the 1920-1970.period was the ATSF. These days, most lease everything. When the railroad I worked for at the time, the AN, went to EMD in 1982, to buy locomotives for cash, they almost didn't know how to handle the transaction.. It got us a great price, though, on three GP15-T's. Gregg Mahlkov #7418 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" To: Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 3:52 PM Subject: [PRR] PRR Trust Plates, > List, > > Anyone here familiar with PRR Trust Plates and the history of how > they were used? I am not really after info such as what series plates > went with what equipment, at least I don't think so, but rather what the > plates use was. > This is my understnding as of now. I beiieve when the PRR wanted to > purchase Locos or whatever rolling stock they wanted to acquire, and > they didn't have the funds to purchase outright, the need to barrow the > money came to be. When the money was barrowed, those certain pieces of > equipment once delivered recieved a trust plate stating the source of > the funding. Am I correct so far? OK now, when the funds were eventually > paid back, was there a certain step followed for the removal of these > plates? Did the finacial people come out to remove the plates or was the > PRR allowed to? > Slight converation via email a little while ago concerning the BLI > M1a/b's and the lack of Trust Plates started me thinking and looking for > photo proof of these locos having Trust Plates. Funny thing is I > couldn't find anything yet showing these locos having Trust Plates, but > the straight M1 class having them. If my reasoning is correct, did the > PRR have the funds to purchase/construct outright, all the M1a's without > having to barrow funds? Spotting an M1 with a Trust Plate as late as > 1946 is a bt strange I thought too. Was this loco not paid off yet? If > anyone has info regarding this stuff, please share if possible. Thanks, > Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work! > > PRR K4s Loco Pics: > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ > > PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > > and...... > > PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bennett Levin" Subject: Re: [PRR] Aerotrain Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:11:00 -0800 Ah! the benefits of age. I have two distinct recollections of the Areotrain. 1.Riding it from Lewistown to 30th Street and changing to the = Keystone equipment to get to North Philadelphia. 2.Seeing it cross the Delaware River Bridge eastbound at Trenton at = night. My dad was driving westbound on the US1 bridge and there it was! (Only one sighting) Bennett=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: WAMMP236@aol.com=20 To: ndbprr@att.net ; Prr-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 1:44 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Aerotrain Hello, The Aerotrain had a direct connection to the Tubular ( I = believe it was THE AFTERNOON KEYSTONE) train at Philadelphia 30th Street = Station. It did not run through to New York. = Bill ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3E67A.1AD8CBC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Ah! the benefits of age.
 
I have two distinct recollections of the Areotrain.
 
    1.Riding it from Lewistown to 30th Street and = changing=20 to the Keystone equipment to get to North Philadelphia.
 
 
    2.Seeing it cross the Delaware River Bridge = eastbound at=20 Trenton at night. My dad was driving westbound on the US1 bridge = and there=20 it was!
    (Only one sighting)
 
 
Bennett 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 WAMMP236@aol.com=20
Sent: Thursday, January 29, = 2004 1:44=20 PM
Subject: Re: [PRR] = Aerotrain

Hello,
        The Aerotrain had = a=20 direct connection to the Tubular ( I believe it was THE AFTERNOON=20 KEYSTONE) train at Philadelphia 30th Street Station.  It did = not run=20 through to New York.
=
           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =          =20 Bill
------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3E67A.1AD8CBC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Morgan Bilbo" Subject: [PRR] PRR, BLI, MDC & E5,H6 Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 17:32:52 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jan 2004 23:52:42.0137 (UTC) FILETIME=[FBF02890:01C3E6C2] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All For those of us wanting older locomotives, and this "BLI" concern with "where to put the DCC, sound, speakers, etc.". I have not purchased any T1's or M1's. So - for those of you with them, how big is the decoder, etc.? Speakers? Then, using the only tender I know of that might be usefull behind an E2, E3, E5, H6, etc., which is the MDC tender very close to a PRR 70 ? 66 or 70. Is it feasible for them to be able to put this decoder stuff in that tender? So for those of you that own a BLI and this MDC tender, what say y'all! Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist PRRTHS #1204 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.567 / Virus Database: 358 - Release Date: 01/24/2004 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 18:58:11 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Trust Plates, X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 46 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In a message dated 1/29/04 4:31:00 PM, mittner@webtv.net writes: << Anyone here familiar with PRR Trust Plates and the history of how they were used? I am not really after info such as what series plates went with what equipment, at least I don't think so, but rather what the plates use was. >> I think the concept goes back further than that. The trust plate was designed to be a symbol that the property to which it was attached was "owned" by a distant entity, one other than the entity who was the apparent owner, i.e., the operator and that, therefore, the property couldn't be sold to a third party by the operator because he didn't own it. So, when the operator took possession of the property, the "owner" put a plate on it and got signed representations by the operator that he wouldn't/couldn't sell the property to a third party. It also allowed to original owner to reclaim the property by saying, "I don't care what representations were made to you or what you came to believe, my plate was on it and the plate could not be removed without my approval." The plate makes much more sense as protection for a boat or a large freight wagon than it does for a railroad engine. But, we also have a common usage today. The next time you are on line on the jetbridge waiting to get on an airplane (with your bag with a bistro meal in it), once you get immediately inside the aircraft, look around. Look especially on the bulkhead right over the main passenger door. There should be an equipment trust plate showing who actually owns the aircraft, who it has been leased from. And, when an airline goes bankrupt, one of the first things it seeks is court authority to break these aircraft leases and return the aircraft to the true owner. Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "J. Smith" Subject: [PRR] passenger consist consistancy Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 19:08:07 -0500 I am beginning to look at PRR passenger consists on long distance trains = from the 1948-1954 time period and have a few questions. =20 How often did the consists of trains actually match the official list = put out by the PRR? I would imagine that the numbers of head end cars = and coaches would change with demand, but what about the sleepers?=20 Were the official consist lists updated every year? How much would = they change from year to year?=20 How often would one find sleepers from foreign railroads on trains that = they were not regularly assigned to? Thanks for you assistance. Jeff Smith ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C3E69B.3A915BF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
I am beginning to look at PRR passenger = consists on=20 long distance trains from the 1948-1954 time period and have a few=20 questions. 
 
How often did the consists of trains = actually match=20 the official list put out by the PRR?  I would imagine that the = numbers of=20 head end cars and coaches would change with demand, but what about the=20 sleepers? 
 
 Were the official consist lists = updated every=20 year?  How much would they change from year to year?
 
How often would one find sleepers from = foreign=20 railroads on trains that they were not regularly assigned = to?
 
 
Thanks for you assistance.
 
Jeff = Smith 
------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C3E69B.3A915BF0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] NEW PRR Silverliner MU in HO Scale From: "mkwb@excite.com" Cc: Message-Id: <20040130001749.F408829A0F@xprdmailfe23.nwk.excite.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 19:17:49 -0500 (EST) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: NEW in 2004 from Imperial Hobby Productions is our first Pennsylvania RR prototype: the St. Louis Car Co. 1968 Silverliner MU Cars. These 85' stainless steel cars are still in service on SEPTA and have gone through several agency images over the years. These HO models will be easy-to-build resin kits, complete with trucks. Your choice of PRR Keystones or SEPTA decals (yes, this item will be licensed by SEPTA). More details are on the IHP website at: http://ihphobby.tripod.com. Quantities will be limited. Thanks, Mike Bartel IHP http://ihphobby.tripod.com _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Christopher Baker" Subject: RE: [PRR] Last 510 511 Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 19:35:26 -0500 My April 1950 ORG still lists trains 510 - 511 in table #109 as operating daily between Altoona - Tyrone - Bellfonte - Lock Haven. Hope that tidbit helps you some... Chris Baker PRRT&HS #1918 -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of John and Peg Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 11:30 PM To: WAMMP236@aol.com; prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] Last 510 511 WAMMP, The Middle Division Time-Table No. 3, dated December 6, 1942, Lists Trains 510 and 511 on the Bald Eagle (Branch Tyrone - Lock Haven). The Middle Division Time Table No. 8, dated April 24, 1955, Does not list Trains 510 and 511. I realize this leaves a 12 or 13 year hole in your puzzle but, these are the only time tables I have. I hope this helps. I 'm sure someone else can help narrow this down for you. John Dolensky PRRTHS # 7102 -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of WAMMP236@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 4:55 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Last 510 511 Hello List, Does anyone have any information on the last run of Trains 510 and 511 on the Bald Eagle branch between Tyrone and Lock Haven? ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C3E69F.0BBB03E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
My April 1950 ORG still lists=20 trains 510 - 511 in table #109 as operating daily between Altoona - = Tyrone=20 - Bellfonte - Lock Haven.  Hope that tidbit helps you = some...
 
Chris Baker
PRRT&HS #1918  =

 -----Original = Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of John and = Peg
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 11:30 PM
To:=20 WAMMP236@aol.com; prr-talk@dsop.com
Subject: RE: [PRR] Last = 510=20 511

WAMMP,
 
The Middle Division Time-Table = No. 3,=20 dated December 6, 1942, Lists Trains 510 and 511 on the Bald Eagle = (Branch=20 Tyrone - Lock Haven).  The Middle=20 Division Time Table No. 8, dated April 24, 1955, Does not list Trains = 510 and=20 511.  I realize this = leaves a 12 or=20 13 year hole in your puzzle but, these are the only time tables I = have. =20 I hope this helps.  = I 'm sure someone else can help narrow this = down for=20 you.
 
John Dolensky
PRRTHS # 7102
-----Original Message-----
From: = PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of=20 WAMMP236@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 = 4:55=20 PM
To: prr-talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] Last 510 = 511

Hello List,
=
           &n= bsp; =20 Does anyone have any information on the last run of Trains 510 and = 511 on=20 the Bald Eagle branch between Tyrone and Lock=20 Haven?
------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C3E69F.0BBB03E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Broadway vs Bowser Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 18:40:53 -0600 For budget purposes I cancelled a BLI M1a to go with my M1b. However, = though I have been considering moving my Soundtraxx decoder from my = Bowser M1 to my brass I1 or H10, I may first double headthe two = mountains to see how they look (and sound!) together. The Bowser has = had some piping and brass details added, plus helix humper, and is a = nice weathered color.=20 I will also be checking dimensions one on one. For some reason, the = Bowser looks bigger in the boiler, but I will have to put the calipers = on both locos Bob Zoeller ------=_NextPart_000_008C_01C3E697.6CC732B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
For budget purposes I cancelled a BLI = M1a to go=20 with my M1b.  However, though I have been considering moving my = Soundtraxx=20 decoder from my Bowser M1 to my brass I1 or H10, I may first double = headthe two=20 mountains to see how they look (and sound!)  together.  The = Bowser has=20 had some piping and brass details added, plus helix humper, and is a = nice=20 weathered color.
I will also be checking = dimensions one on=20 one.  For some reason, the Bowser looks bigger in the boiler, but I = will=20 have to put the calipers on both locos
 
Bob Zoeller
------=_NextPart_000_008C_01C3E697.6CC732B0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: "prr-talk" From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] passenger consist consistancy Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 20:19:53 -0500 To: "J. Smith" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Jan 29, 2004, at 7:08 PM, J. Smith wrote: > I am beginning to look at PRR passenger consists on long distance=20 > trains=A0from the 1948-1954 time period and have a few questions.=A0 > =A0 > How often did the consists of trains actually match the official list=20= > put out by the PRR?=A0 I would imagine that the numbers of head end = cars=20 > and coaches would change with demand, but what about the sleepers?=A0 You need to remember that different types of sleepers had different=20 types of rooms -- duplex, double bedrooms, roomettes, etc. They were=20 priced differently. So if the railroad sold reservations for specific=20 types of rooms, they couldn't just drop a car because there were enough=20= "overall" rooms in the train. They needed to maintain the correct types=20= of rooms. So it was unlikely that they just dropped cars because they=20 didn't sell the rooms. You also need to remember that the car might be=20= needed for the return half of the trip. > =A0 > =A0Were the official consist lists updated every year?=A0 How much = would=20 > they change from year to year? Subtle changes year to year, but not much. I enjoy comparing the=20 Stegmeir 1952 data with what I have for 1954. > =A0 > How often would one find sleepers from foreign railroads=A0on trains=20= > that they were not regularly assigned to? > =A0 > =A0 > Thanks for you assistance. > =A0 > Jeff Smith=A0 > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 20:38:11 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "sjlash" Subject: [PRR] Tiger Valley Models Hi Guys, I was wondering if any of you know who the distributor is for t= his company. I remember an e mail a while ago with this information, but= with changing computers, I must have lost the information. Thanks Jim= --------------Boundary-00=_NJ4AG6G0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Guys,  I was wondering if any of you= know who the distributor is for this company.  I remember an e mail= a while ago with this information, but with changing computers, I must h= ave lost the information.  Thanks   Jim
--------------Boundary-00=_NJ4AG6G0000000000000-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:18:26 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR, BLI, MDC & E5,H6 While down at the Timonium show this last weekend I had a chance to talk with the people at the BLI booth. I was asking about the potential for future PRR loco's specifically I-1's, L-1's and H-9/10's. I mentioned the 90F82 tank as the one to use for the small tank version of the I-1. I asked if sound would fit in the smaller PRR tenders and the individual from BLI said if we can get it to fit in a SW-9 we can get it to fit in almost any tender. So it looks like tender size is not an issue. --------------------------------- Ken McCorry --part1_54.21660c95.2d4b18f2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" While down at= the Timonium show this last weekend I had a chance to talk with the people=20= at the BLI booth. I was asking about the potential for future PRR loco's spe= cifically I-1's, L-1's and H-9/10's. I mentioned the 90F82 tank as the one t= o use for the small tank version of the I-1. I asked if  sound  wo= uld fit in the smaller PRR tenders and the individual from BLI said if we ca= n get it to fit in a SW-9 we can get it to fit in almost any tender. So it l= ooks like tender size is not an issue.=20
---------------------------------  Ken McCorry --part1_54.21660c95.2d4b18f2_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:42:26 -0500 From: Steve Sharpe Subject: Re: [PRR] ATTENTION BLI M-1b owners!!!! Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: At 9:25 PM +0000 1/29/04, Ted Andrews wrote: >I just got off the phone with BLI regarding my M-1b with the missing >wheelset in the trailing truck. > >The person from BLI was very apologetic about the situation; he told >me that I was the first one to report about the problem of the >missing wheelset. He is sending me a wheel set for the trailing >truck. All I did was give him my mailing address. He told me that >best way to contact BLI about missing parts is via the phone. He did >say you can email as well but there is a sizable backlog in >answering the email. > >I will keep you posted on how soon the missing part arrives. I phoned today as well after getting no response to my email. They are sending me the missing wheel set as well, no questions asked, which really pleased me. His only comment was, "That is really weird." -- Steve sbs@milestone-media.com • ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 22:42:57 -0500 From: Garry Spear Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Trust Plates, Additional Usage Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Another use of the trust plate was to inform mechanical department employees as to the true owner of the equipment. In the event of a wreck a car with a trust plate MUST not be scrapped. The complete car (body and trucks) must be picked up and accounted for. If this was not possible special (very special) arrangements had to be made with the (trust) owner. As with the reports of engines lined up in trust date sequence, so were cars. There were cars wrecked beyond repair stored in the Altoona and Sam Ray shop area; stored until the trust expired or other alternative arrangements were made. And not all PRR freight cars became or were the PRR's property. Boxcars in some of the 600,000 number series were the property of the Equitable Insurance (sp??) of Chicago. At the end of the lease many of these cars were returned to the owner; who then leased them to other RRs. Garry Spear ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "George Rudy" Subject: [PRR] New Member Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 23:22:25 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner-VirusCheck: Found to be clean Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: hi everybody, I just joined your group about a week ago and have been reading the post with great interest. I am in the process of building a new layout modeling the PRR in Perry County in 1940. My main interest is Newport and Duncannon. Along with the PRR 4 track mainline (HO) will be the Newport and Sherman's Valley 3 foot narrow gauge line from Newport to New Germantown and then the Perry County Lumber Co. from New Germantown up into the mountains in western Perry County (HOn3). By the way, I am searching for a HOn3 class B Climax. If anyone has one to sell make me an offer. Anyhow, I will be full of questions and I'm looking forward to learning all I can about the mighty PRR. George Rudy New Bloomfield, Pa. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 23:57:49 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] M1b---help? I just received mine today and have the same problem. It will not operate on DC or DCC, not even a light or a whimper. When the decoder is queried for an address it could not find a page for the address (ADDR=??? on the Digitrax system). Did notice the tender sides getting warm while attempting to read the address. Also, took the loco off and tried just the tender on the programming track getting the same results with the tender sides again getting warm. BLI will be contacted tomorrow about this problem. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1075438669 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
I just received mine today and have the same problem.  It will not= operate on DC or DCC, not even a light or a whimper.  When the decoder= is queried for an address it could not find a page for the address (ADDR= =3D??? on the Digitrax system).  Did notice the tender sides getting wa= rm while attempting to read the address.  Also, took the loco off and t= ried just the tender on the programming track getting the same results with=20= the tender sides again getting warm.
 
BLI will be contacted tomorrow about this problem.

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1075438669-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 00:28:42 -0500 From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR, BLI, MDC & E5,H6 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: --On Thursday, January 29, 2004 19:01 -0500 "Morgan Bilbo" wrote: > Then, using the only tender I know of that might be usefull behind an E2, > E3, E5, H6, etc., which is the MDC tender very close to a PRR 70 ? 66 or > 70. > Is it feasible for them to be able to put this decoder stuff in that > tender? > > So for those of you that own a BLI and this MDC tender, what say y'all! There is a wonderful scene in an eminently forgettable movie called "1941," in which the crew of a Japanese submarine, having landed near Hollywood, CA, has confiscated a cathedral-style vaccuum tube radio and are trying, unsucessfully, to get it through the hatch. Frustrated, one sailor looks at his mate and exclaims -- via subtitles -- "We've GOT to find a way to make these things smaller!" And, so it is with BLI. Vagel "If Soundtraxx can do it for Spectrum's 2-10-0, so can BLI" Keller Pittsburgh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] New Member Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 06:28:24 -0500 To: "George Rudy" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Jan 29, 2004, at 11:22 PM, George Rudy wrote: > hi everybody, > I just joined your group about a week ago and have been reading the > post > with great interest. Welcome! > I am in the process of building a new layout modeling the PRR in Perry > County in 1940. My main interest is Newport and Duncannon. Along with > the > PRR 4 track mainline (HO) will be the Newport and Sherman's Valley 3 > foot > narrow gauge line from Newport to New Germantown and then the Perry > County > Lumber Co. from New Germantown up into the mountains in western Perry > County > (HOn3). By the way, I am searching for a HOn3 class B Climax. If > anyone has > one to sell make me an offer. We're almost neighbors! I'm in Etters, below New Cumberland. I'm modeling the PRR in 1954 and include the main line from the Rockville Bridge up through Duncannon. I've included the interchange with the Susquehanna & Western, but it was out of business by then (barely). Might park a rusting steamer on the interchange track! See http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/ . > Anyhow, I will be full of questions and I'm looking forward to > learning all > I can about the mighty PRR. > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Phila Chapter meeting & my new website Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 07:37:58 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, I am very happy to announce my new website http://www.lanestrains.com It is not much now, but I will add to it when I can. Business has been good for the first month, but I could use a little more work backlog. I am currently running at about 2-3 weeks. Please reply with what you would like to have done, what scale, and if there are decals or dry transfers available. I will have a table at the Phila Chapter meeting tomorrow. You could bring something for me to quote, and possibly take with me for painting. I want to stress that while I am in S Scale, I will work on all scales. I have had a lot of O Scale recently. Thanks, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] NJT new Morrisville Yard Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 07:38:04 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, Give a look at these photos. It is interesting to see PRR style catenary supports that are NEW. http://www.trainweb.org/phillynrhs/RPOTW040111.html http://www.trainweb.org/phillynrhs/RPOTW040111.1.html http://www.trainweb.org/phillynrhs/RPOTW040111.2.html http://www.trainweb.org/phillynrhs/RPOTW040111.3.html Thanks, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 08:21:44 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Broadway Limited Imports in N Scale? From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <3FE87FF8-5327-11D8-B9C9-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I've spoken with BLI several times about the prospect of N scale. They've consistently indicated that it is desirable in the long range plan but that the miniaturization of the QSI decoder technology is the main stumbling block. Yesterday Pat Quinn -- the Q in QSI -- made the following statement online: > QSI has every intention of > moving the Quantum system to N scale. This will take some serious re- > tooling of the hardware. This is no trivial matter. Please be > patient, I assure you that you will see it or I will collapse > trying. It is just not an active project yet, but the strategy to > succeed in N scale has been carefully conceived. I'm really glad to > hear from N scalers - thanks for checking in. -Pat While Pat clearly indicates it is not yet an active project, it is good to see IN PRINT that the plans are in the works! I'm hoping most for GG1's, P5's, E7's, and E8's. I think steam will follow later, as it will really require miniaturization! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 07:38:04 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] NJT new Morrisville Yard Hi All, Give a look at these photos. It is interesting to see PRR style catenary supports that are NEW. http://www.trainweb.org/phillynrhs/RPOTW040111.html http://www.trainweb.org/phillynrhs/RPOTW040111.1.html http://www.trainweb.org/phillynrhs/RPOTW040111.2.html http://www.trainweb.org/phillynrhs/RPOTW040111.3.html Thanks, Bill Lane http://www.lanestrains.com "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 08:18:42 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR, BLI, MDC & E5,H6 From: Bruce Smith In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <352B3E9A-532F-11D8-B5E7-000A958DAD46@mail.auburn.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, January 29, 2004, at 05:32 PM, Morgan Bilbo wrote: > Hi All > > For those of us wanting older locomotives, and this "BLI" concern with > "where to put the DCC, sound, speakers, etc.". > > I have not purchased any T1's or M1's. So - for those of you with > them, how > big is the decoder, etc.? Speakers? > > Then, using the only tender I know of that might be usefull behind an > E2, > E3, E5, H6, etc., which is the MDC tender very close to a PRR 70 ? 66 > or 70. > > Is it feasible for them to be able to put this decoder stuff in that > tender? Well, you heard Jerry say QSI is looking at N-scale... I took my MDC tender shell and my Trainstuff LLC 90F82 shell and compared them to the "guts" of the M1A last night. The board from the M1A is about 1/4" longer than these two shells, but could easily be compressed...the biggest issue I see is height, but the electronics can definitely be compressed. Two speakers may still fit, or they may need to go to one large oval speaker...All in all, it looks like my concern for size isn't really relevant after all! (which makes me happy, cause I RELLY want those H9s and L1s!! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Broadway vs Bowser Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 10:16:27 -0500 I was able to add 2.5 to 3 oz of lead to the space behind the motor. A = few words of caution when (if) you do this. First be very careful of the runningboards along side of the smokebox when removing the boiler. They = are fragile. I broke the fireman's side off trying to maneuver the boiler = off the frame. That's some of the good and bad features of plastic. Brass = would not have broken. Plastic is easily glued back on. =20 The easiest way to remove the boiler seems to be to slide it forward to allow the gearbox cover to slip out they wider opening in the firebox. = Once the space in the firebox is filled with lead, this can no longer be = done. So I carved the opening on the bottom of the boiler a tad wider so the gearbox can not drop straight down without fouling the cover. With the = loco reassembled, the larger opening is still not visible. =20 I cut 16 odd shaped plate from sheet lead to fit the firebox. I press = fit them into the firebox without glue, so they could be removed if they = caused trouble. I put some electrical tape over the motor lead contacts so the lead weight would not accidentally touch them and cause a short. =20 The engine now weighs in as 22 ozs (w/o tender). The original center of gravity was slightly forward of the center of the drivers. It is now slightly aft. Keeping the CoG centered over the drivers is as important = as adding more weight. Its pulling power up the North Shore Club's = mountain has increased from 15 cars to 18-20 cars. I had hoped for more. I = suspect I will put DCC receiver in my Gem brass M1a and double head them. That should enable me to pull about 40 cars which would look right. As it stands, the BLI M1 with 18 cars looks a little silly. Perhaps that's = just the down side of operating on a large club layout. There are too many places where the entire 18-20 car train is visible and the shortness = shows. Of course during an op session the yard operator is all to prone to dispatching a 6 car train with 3 SDPF69MACs (or some such modern thing) = ;-) =20 regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Andrew = S. Miller Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:42 AM To: 'Tom Hayden'; 'PRR-Talk' Subject: RE: [PRR] Broadway vs Bowser Based upon my tests to date with the new M1, Bowser still wins the = drawbar contest hands down. My Bowser L1s with a Helix Humper outpoll the new = M1 almost 2 to 1 ! =20 Last night I took my new M! home and added weight behind the motor. = Tonight at the club I will put it first on the electronic scale to see just how = much weight I was able to add, and second on a long freight, to see what improvement it made over the anemic 15 cars it managed up the mountain Tuesday. Stay tuned. =20 regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Tom = Hayden Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:21 AM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Broadway vs Bowser On Monday, January 26, 2004, at 08:29 AM, Sam Vastano wrote: > I have been thinking about how Broadway Limited will effect the price=20 > of the brass locomotives? Any opinions? On Jan 26, Bruce Smith wrote: The impact that=20 has me wondering is on Bowser. I cannot imagine why anyone would=20 actually buy one of their (innacurate) T1 models at this point. It=20 can't be price, because by the time you've fixed the Bowser (the parts=20 that can be fixed) and added sound, you've equalled the price of the=20 BLI. Any new BLI PRR steam will almost certainly impact on Bowser and Sunset=20 as well...I1, L1, H9/10, B6, etc... I do see Bruce's point, though I'm not 100 % convinced there is not = still a place for the Bowser products. From comments I have seen here and on = other lists, there is a large segment of our hobby that does NOT want sound. = And a little modeling effort (which is what quite a few of us enjoy more than operating ) can bring a Bowser to a pretty high level model.=20 But Bruce, I am wondering just what specific inaccuracies do you find = in the Bowser T1 ? Just wondering if there are any that I have not noticed myself.=20 Tom Hayden=20 ------=_NextPart_000_006C_01C3E71A.1F773D60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Message
I was=20 able to add 2.5 to 3 oz of lead to the space behind the = motor.   A few=20 words of caution when (if) you do this.  First be very careful of = the=20 runningboards along side of the smokebox when removing the boiler.  = They=20 are fragile.  I broke the fireman's side off trying to maneuver the = boiler=20 off the frame.  That's some of the good and bad features of = plastic. Brass=20 would not have broken. Plastic is easily glued back = on.
 
The=20 easiest way to remove the boiler seems to be to slide it forward to = allow the=20 gearbox cover to slip out they wider opening in the firebox.  Once = the=20 space in the firebox is filled with lead, this can no longer be = done.  So I=20 carved the opening on the bottom of the boiler a tad wider so the = gearbox can=20 not drop straight down without fouling the cover.  With the loco=20 reassembled, the larger opening is still not = visible.
 
I cut=20 16 odd shaped plate from sheet lead to fit the firebox.  I press = fit them=20 into the firebox without glue, so they could be removed if they caused=20 trouble.  I put some electrical tape over the motor lead contacts = so the=20 lead weight would not accidentally touch them and cause a=20 short.
 
The=20 engine now weighs in as 22 ozs (w/o tender).  The original center = of=20 gravity was slightly forward of the center of the drivers.  It is = now=20 slightly aft.  Keeping the CoG centered over the drivers is as = important as=20 adding more weight.  Its pulling power up the North Shore Club's = mountain=20 has increased from 15 cars to 18-20 cars.  I had hoped for = more.  I=20 suspect I will put  DCC receiver in my Gem brass M1a and double = head=20 them.  That should enable me to pull about 40 cars which would look = right.  As it stands, the BLI M1 with 18 cars looks a little = silly. =20 Perhaps that's just the down side of operating on a large club=20 layout.   There are too many places where the entire 18-20 car = train=20 is visible and the shortness shows.  Of course during an op session = the=20 yard operator is all to prone to dispatching a 6 car train with 3 = SDPF69MACs (or=20 some such modern thing)  ;-)
 
regards,
Andy Miller
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of = Andrew S.=20 Miller
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:42 = AM
To: 'Tom=20 Hayden'; 'PRR-Talk'
Subject: RE: [PRR] Broadway vs=20 Bowser

Based upon my tests to date with the new M1, Bowser = still wins the=20 drawbar contest hands down.  My Bowser L1s with a Helix Humper = outpoll=20 the new M1 almost 2 to 1 !
 
Last=20 night I took my new M! home and added weight behind the motor. Tonight = at the=20 club I will put it first on the electronic scale to see just how much = weight I=20 was able to add, and second on a long freight, to see what improvement = it made=20 over the anemic 15 cars it managed up the mountain Tuesday.  Stay = tuned.
 
regards,
Andy Miller
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Tom = Hayden
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:21 = AM
To:=20 PRR-Talk
Subject: [PRR] Broadway vs = Bowser


On=20 Monday, January 26, 2004, at 08:29 AM, Sam Vastano wrote:
> = I have=20 been thinking about how Broadway Limited will effect the price =
> of=20 the brass locomotives?  Any = opinions?

On Jan 26, Bruce Smith wrote:
 The impact = that
has=20 me wondering is on Bowser.  I cannot imagine why anyone would =
actually buy one of their (innacurate) T1 models at this = point. =20 It
can't be price, because by the time you've fixed the Bowser = (the=20 parts
that can be fixed) and added sound, you've equalled the = price of=20 the
BLI.

Any new BLI PRR steam will almost certainly = impact on=20 Bowser and Sunset
as well...I1, L1, H9/10, B6, = etc...

I=20 do see Bruce's point, though I'm not 100 % convinced there is not = still a=20 place for the Bowser products. From comments I have seen here and on = other=20 lists, there is a large segment of our hobby that does NOT want = sound. And a=20 little modeling effort (which is what quite a few of us enjoy more = than=20 operating ) can bring a Bowser to a pretty high level model.=20

 But Bruce, I am wondering just what specific = inaccuracies do=20 you find in the Bowser T1 ?  Just wondering if there are any = that I=20 have not noticed myself.

Tom Hayden=20
------=_NextPart_000_006C_01C3E71A.1F773D60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 10:47:43 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PRR Lettering From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bob Johnson, list: I saw -- a long time ago in a land far, far away (and I've forgotten where) -- a book or series of blueprint sheets that had the individual letters and numbers the Pennsy used for spec'ing lettering of rolling stock. I am specifically interested in 1950's passenger car lettering. The whole alphabet and all numbers would be needed. Does anyone have such a book or sheets? What about the Society archives? The driving interest is to scan these letters to make digital outlines and produce TrueType and PostScript fonts. They would become freely available to anyone who wants them. (Note: The Adobe Clarendon font is NOT a match for the Pennsy's Craw Clarendon, though many parts of it are close.) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Lettering Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:11:32 +0000 From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Lettering Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:12:16 +0000 From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Lettering Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:12:16 +0000 From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Lettering Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:12:16 +0000 Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:19:56 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Lettering From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Ben: I don't have that book, but isn't that book full of lettering diagrams for cars? That's NOT what I am looking for. What I am looking for has each individual character (letter or number) about 10" high. On Friday, January 30, 2004, at 11:12 AM, b.hom@att.net wrote: > I saw -- a long time ago in a land far, far away (and I've forgotten > where) -- a book or series of blueprint sheets that had the individual > letters and numbers the Pennsy used for spec'ing lettering of rolling > stock. > > Sounds like the Middle Division "Pennsylvania Railroad Compendium": > > Kusner, George S. "Pennsylvania Railroad Compendium: freight car > lettering > arrangements - Volume 1 1954-1968." New Cumberland, Pa. (P.O. Box > 332, New > Cumberland, Pa. 17070): Middle Division, c1989, p., chiefly illus., > 27x43 cm. > LC#: 89-164396 > > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 10:18:06 -0600 Subject: [PRR] New PRR Project Groups Project - R50B From: Bruce Smith Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hello, Please excuse the cross-posting. I wanted to invite any interested party to join the latest project on the PRR Projects group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRRPro/ Beginning immediately, we will be working on R50B reefers. The project will focus on modifying the Walthers HO scale R50B, but modelers in other scales are encouraged to participate as well. This will be an ideal project for modelers of all skill levels to learn new skills. Following this project, we will be working on X29 boxcars (all subclasses, all scales), beginning in late March or the first week of April. The PRR Projects Group is for modelers of all skill levels and all scales who wish to model the PRR. Our goals are to support each other's modeling habits and to encourage each of us to grow, and expand our abilities. The group is not a competitive arena where we are looking for the best model, just our personal best efforts to accurately model the Standard Railroad of the World. Members are encouraged post photographs of in-progress and finished models to the group files section. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:20:58 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Lettering From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, January 30, 2004, at 11:11 AM, ndbprr@att.net wrote: > Rails Northeast published several drawings that had the lettering > spacing on > them. What really surprised me was the amount of variation in distance > between letters on some of the equipment. I can not recall without > checking > if they also did passenger cars. I remember he was big on wanting > someone to > do the P85br and had drawings but beyond that don't remember. I'll have to take a look. I don't recall it. The nice thing about PostScript is that once the font is created, you can apply spacing rules to a selection of text. You don't have to measure or manually figure anything out. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:53:46 -0500 From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Lettering Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: b.hom@att.net wrote: Jerry- The Compendium has such pages, but only for freight and cabins. Look in the back of the book. Regards, Eddie > Jerry Britton wrote: > I saw -- a long time ago in a land far, far away (and I've forgotten > where) -- a book or series of blueprint sheets that had the individual > letters and numbers the Pennsy used for spec'ing lettering of rolling > stock. > > Sounds like the Middle Division "Pennsylvania Railroad Compendium": > > Kusner, George S. "Pennsylvania Railroad Compendium: freight car lettering > arrangements - Volume 1 1954-1968." New Cumberland, Pa. (P.O. Box 332, New > Cumberland, Pa. 17070): Middle Division, c1989, p., chiefly illus., 27x43 cm. > LC#: 89-164396 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:25:57 -0500 Subject: [PRR] R50b Use, Lettering From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <5D681AF2-5349-11D8-B9C9-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bruce Smith recently made a post about the PRR Pro group's next project, the R50b. In the PRR Pro archive I found Bob Johnson's comments about R50b lettering. This one in particular caught my eye... "n - On 2-15-1954 the lettering "RAILWAY EXPRESS AGENCY" was crossed off and no longer applied to cars." Does "was crossed off" mean it was crossed off the lettering diagram with regard to future application, or literally crossed off the cars? If literally crossed off the cars, was this a cross off or a "patch" painting over? What led to this, was the REA no longer performing the express reefer service...reverting it to the Pennsy itself? If the Pennsy was now (as of 1954) performing the express reefer service, would the loading/unloading have been done on the passenger station platforms or a the LCL freight house? I'm thinking of, of course, my Harrisburg layout set in fall of 1954, several months after this lettering change would have taken place. (So I'll probably want some cars with, and some without, the REA lettering.) There's a video that shows several minutes of footage at the east end of Harrisburg. I think it might be one of the Pennsylvania Glory volumes. Either that or one of the Penn Valley Pictures videos. The shots I am thinking of were taken from the Mulberry Street bridge and look across the passenger tracks towards the REA building and the freight house beyond. There are reefers in the foreground...accessible via the passenger platforms. Are these reefers here, ready to be added to trains, or are they being loaded here by the PRR (rather than the REA)? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:24:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Lettering From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, January 30, 2004, at 11:11 AM, ndbprr@att.net wrote: > Rails Northeast published several drawings that had the lettering > spacing on > them. From an incomplete index, I've come up with March 1978: PRR Lettering of Passenger Cars Feb 1979: PRR Lettering Diagram for Head End Passenger Cars Will have to look and see if either helps. Thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] R50b Use, Lettering Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:52:22 +0000 From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Coaling Towers Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:47:04 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-MDRemoteIP: 192.0.1.150 X-Return-Path: geshick@velocity.net X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: prr-talk@dsop.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Red Bank is in west central PA. It is where the Allegheny Valley's low grade line from Driftwood on the P&E meets the original AV line from Pittsburgh to Oil City. Other sources on the web call it Redbank Furnace. Mapquest doesn't show it at all. I'm not sure if the tower is still there. Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Kelling" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 5:45 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Coaling Towers > > > Sorry, what was the final word on this tower, still standing? If so, where > is Redbank? > > >>> "Jerry Shickler" 01/23/04 10:32AM >>> > I thought I remembered one being at Redbank, because someone had sent a > photo link a few years back. I couldn't find it when I posted the other > photo links, because I thought Redbank was 2 words. Oh, well. Here it is: > http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/6652/coaltower.jpg > > Jerry Shickler > Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: > http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] PRR J1a exposed sand pipes or not? Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:35:14 -0500 From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:53:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR J1a exposed sand pipes or not? MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Sam, What do you mean by more valuable? That really has no bearing unless its a dealer trying to get rid of it (G). More desirable on the other hand is something else. Only 10-12 J's had outside delivery sand pipes and these were all later converted to sand lines under the boiler skin. So if you want an outside sand line J, you are limiting yourself to the earlier era. I have to check the dates on when they were actually converted over. I think most people prefer the inside sand lines. Was it AHM that modeled the exposed sand lines? Key did them both ways. It just comes to what YOU prefer. I have both......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Nesbitt" Subject: [PRR] Chapter meeting ? Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:59:48 -0500 " I will have a table at the Phila Chapter meeting tomorrow " Is this open to the public, and where will it be held ? Thanks Kenny ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C3E741.B556F010 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message

"    =20 I will have a table at the Phila Chapter meeting tomorrow    "

Is this open to the = public, and=20 where will it be held ?

Thanks

Kenny

 

 

 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C3E741.B556F010-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 Subject: RE: PAINT Re: [PRR] Spectrum Color Question Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:04:01 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: PAINT Re: [PRR] Spectrum Color Question Thread-Index: AcPmNZjm4shojpK1SLiUnUArNXeQ+wBNinRA From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: , , Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Jan 2004 20:04:02.0554 (UTC) FILETIME=[34D7ADA0:01C3E76C] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In discussions with Bachmann about the color of the post-war P70s at an = MRIA convention several years ago, I had the impression that they had = done a lot of research in an effort to get the color right. The = gentleman also indicated that cheaper grade paints were employed by the = PRR after the was, reflecting a general efforts to cut costs (like = switching from gold leaf to dulux in certain lettering applications).=20 -----Original Message----- From: k4sb@niia.net [mailto:k4sb@niia.net] Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 12:53 AM To: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu; taylorsouthwood@msn.com Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: PAINT Re: [PRR] Spectrum Color Question I personally feel it depends on the paint supplier in China/ Korea/ wherever......First, they are given a color sample. Is the sample correct? Is it a photo of a PRR car? Is there a tint to the photo? Cyan, green, magenta, yellow, red, blue? Were they given a true PRR paint chip? Asian eyes interpert color far differently than we do. That is a proven fact. Then it boils down to the guy mixing 40 gallons of paint. They spray it on the entire production run of 2000 cars. They ship the cars to the USA. Then the boss at the "Name a model company" says "well that looks good enough to me, what do you say Bob?" Bob, fearing for his job says "Gee wizz Art, I think they=20 look GREAT too!!" They ship the models to the wholesale distributors (Who do not know the true PRR colors) who ship to the hobby shops (most of who do not know the true colors) where 75 percent of the models get sold to the "grandma trade" (gifts etc"). 25% percent go to us serious modelers who say..........."that's not the right color" In short theres too many variables. Do you view the cars under 5000 Kelvin flouresents? Or shop lights that turn everything a bit green? I'm in the process of designing the lighting systen for our clubs new layout. I'll be using theatrical lighting gels to balance the view and give "close to correct" lighting. You can't use flouresents as is. Take the car outside on a sunny day to determine the paint hue. Ken H Professional Photographer Camera designer > > >---- Original Message ---- >From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu >To: taylorsouthwood@msn.com >Subject: Re: [PRR] Spectrum Color Question >Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 22:14:23 -0600 (CST) > >>> My question concerns the Bachmann Spectrum heavyweight passenger >cars. Is >>> there a reason for the shade difference in the tuscan red (seems >the >>> pre-war >>> are more red tint and the post-war are more brown tint). Anyone >care to >>> comment? Mark >> >>Mark, >> >>That would be because pre-war and post war "tuscan" were different >. If >>you look at Walther's R50B, you'll see the same thing, and I trust >the >>colors on the R50B more as they were developed with the help of Greg >>Martin. Much of this has to do with the development of synthetic >pigments >>and changes in paint formulation and technology over time. >> >>Happy Rails >>Bruce >> >>Bruce Smith >>Auburn, AL >> >> >> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------- >--- >>For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:21:22 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: [PRR] Re: Red Bank Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: It's also 1/2 mile east of Weirwood, Delmarva, just south of Nassawadox, no coaling tower, no railroad but lots of salt water. MY sister's husbands grandmother is buried there and she was married to a PRR clerk from Cape Charles --required PRR content. (Couldn't resist!) Jim McDaniel, Delmarva, with too much free time... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR J1a exposed sand pipes or not? Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:22:31 -0500 >From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) >Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR J1a exposed sand pipes or not? >Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:53:23 -0500 (EST) From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:41:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR J1a exposed sand pipes or not? MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Sam, list, I figured I would list known J's with exposed sandlines. These are from my photo stash. J1#'s 6451, 6453, 6456, 6457, 6461. 6471 and 6473...... J1a# 6475 Thats 8 of the 10-12 known to have had them. Need to look in books to see if I can spot the others. Unless, John G wants to make it easy for me and chime in with the others?......Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jeff Toreki" Subject: [PRR] Old Keystone article Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:43:03 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <401ABCC2.90303@esva.net> Thread-Index: AcPncNmfbTWajO6YSyySsn7D3bOckQAABPYQ Message-ID: <1136627066-90297352@dsop.com> Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Does anyone know where I can find an old issue of the Keystone, specifically Sept. '82? Would anybody be willing to make me a copy of an article from said magazine? I'd gladly reimburse copy and mailing costs. I'm looking for detailed information/drawings of the G38 ore jennies. Thanks in advance, Jeff T. Austin, TX ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Chapter meeting ? Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:48:17 -0500 NEXT CHAPTER MEETING IS JANUARY 31, 2004 At the Drexel Hill United Methodist Church at Burmont Rd. and School Lane 2 blocks from the Aronomink station of SEPTA's Route101 trolley line between the 69th St. and Media. 11:00 AM - Social hour and vendors, Dining Car open, no Modelers Meeting. 1:00 PM - Business Meeting, 2:00 PM - Slide show by Andy Hart, "Potpourri of the PRR in Action" ------=_NextPart_000_0057_01C3E748.7A96A360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Message
NEXT CHAPTER MEETING = IS=20
JANUARY 31, = 2004=20
At the Drexel Hill United = Methodist=20 Church at Burmont Rd. and School Lane =

 2 blocks from the = Aronomink=20 station of SEPTA's Route101 trolley line between the 69th St. and = Media.=20

 11:00 AM - Social = hour and=20 vendors, Dining Car open, no Modelers Meeting.

1:00 PM - Business Meeting, = 2:00 PM -=20 Slide show by Andy Hart, "Potpourri of the PRR in Action"=20

 

 

 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0057_01C3E748.7A96A360-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Old Keystone article Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:04:51 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 In-Reply-To: <1136627066-90297352@dsop.com> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Re: Does anyone know where I can find an old issue of the Keystone, specifically Sept. '82? Yes, if you're a member of the PRRT&HS you can bid on it during our single issue auction. Auction forms were send to members with the winter Keystone. It's item number 45 on the bid for. Auction closes on March, 1 2004. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:09:48 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: Re: [PRR] H class models Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:14:32 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Old Keystone article From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, January 30, 2004, at 02:43 PM, Jeff Toreki wrote: > Does anyone know where I can find an old issue of the Keystone, > specifically > Sept. '82? Would anybody be willing to make me a copy of an article > from > said magazine? I'd gladly reimburse copy and mailing costs. I'm > looking > for detailed information/drawings of the G38 ore jennies. > > Thanks in advance, > > Jeff T. > Austin, TX Jeff, This may not help you in your time of need, but coming soon will be a cd/dvd with ALL of the back issues of the Keystone...No more looking for specific issues on the dealers tables, or paying premium because it was the hottest issue, etc...with the added bonus that the PRRT&HS will get the benefit! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:03:14 -0500 From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Subject: [PRR] PRR Lettering] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry- The Compendium has such pages, but only for freight and cabins. Look in the back of the book. Regards, Eddie Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling Harrisburg & the C&PD in HO > > Jerry Britton wrote: > > I saw -- a long time ago in a land far, far away (and I've forgotten > > where) -- a book or series of blueprint sheets that had the individual > > letters and numbers the Pennsy used for spec'ing lettering of rolling > > stock. > > > > Sounds like the Middle Division "Pennsylvania Railroad Compendium": > > > > Kusner, George S. "Pennsylvania Railroad Compendium: freight car lettering > > arrangements - Volume 1 1954-1968." New Cumberland, Pa. (P.O. Box 332, New > > Cumberland, Pa. 17070): Middle Division, c1989, p., chiefly illus., 27x43 cm. > > LC#: 89-164396 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] BLI quality Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 22:22:43 +0000 Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:32:54 -0500 From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] passenger consist consistancy Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: >> ... PRR passenger consists on long distance >> trains=A0from the 1948-1954 time period ...=A0 >> =A0 >> How often did the consists of trains actually match the official list >> put out by the PRR?=A0 I would imagine that the numbers of head end cars >> and coaches would change with demand, but what about the sleepers?=A0 > You need to remember that different types of sleepers had different > types of rooms ... they couldn't just drop a car because there were enough > "overall" rooms in the train. So it was unlikely that they just > dropped cars because they > didn't sell the rooms. This is the gist of what Harry Stegmaier told me a while back: Although PRR owned sleepers built by Pullman and others during this period, they leased them to Pullman for operations, including selling the spaces. In fact, on those trains that were not "all Pullman," separate food service cars were provided for Pullman and non-Pullman ticket holders. And sleeper = space was not always sold from point of origin to final destination of a train (or the car, if in through-service over foreign roads). Certain spaces on every Pullman sleeper were regularly allocated to one of several ticket offices enroute. Once a Pullman-equiped train departed a station where Pullman passengers could board, unsold spaces allocated to that ticket office were divvied among remaining stops, in succession, as the train arrived and departed Pullman passenger loading/unloading points enroute. In that age of main-frame computers and batch-processing, the extremely complex system for managing and allocating spaces on Pullman sleepers was run by paper and people: Pullman agents at various stations enroute and the Pullman conductors, themselves. You didn't play "musical Pullmans" with a system like that. What often happened, however, was that cars of slightly different configurations or floor plans than those called for in the consist book would be substituted when a car of the appropriate config. wasn't available in the yard due to servicing, maintenance, etc. As to head-end cars and coaches, the number of cars wouldn't dip below the published number, but WOULD increase based on demand. This was especially true during the Thanksgiving/Christmas holiday season on long-distance trains. When head-end grew large enough during annual peak periods, second = sections were run just to handle the additional head-end traffic. The same = adding of extra cars might also have occurred for sleepers, if demand supported it. I think I've read somewhere that second-sections sometimes ran for Blue Ribbon trains during holiday rush and summer vacation periods, = as well. One other thing that's already been discussed on this list to keep in mind: = when the consist book called for a Mail Storage car, that could be fulfilled a "dry" R50b, a B60/B60b, or an express X-29. Vagel Keller Pittsburgh =A0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ray Breyer" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI quality Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:47:47 -0800 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <013020042222.19635.2847@att.net> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I haven't had a single problem with either of my two BLI USRA heavy Mikes, and I bought them from different sources. I've had one of them apart, and the drive train is of brass quality, but detailed better. The can motor and gear tower would be a piece of cake to replace, and even rewiring an engine after BLI goes under and the sound board fries won't be a big deal to anyone who's ever built a Bowser kit. I'm giving BLI the benefit of the doubt. I can't think of a single new model RR company that's come out with as many engines in as short a period of time, so there are bound to be some teething issues. I don't expect the second run of any engine to have problems. In short, don't look a gift horse in the mouth! Ray Breyer -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of ndbprr@att.net Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 2:23 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] BLI quality First let me say that I don't intend this as a bash. Does it seem like BLI has an inordinate number of quality issues compared to the other manufacturers? Everyone appears to be so excited about getting these engines that they are willing to accept some pretty shoddy quality control issues. Does anyone think the initial problems will be replaced by ongoing quality issues after some hours of running? In other words how durable are the mechanisms? If they fail during break in how good can they be in the long run in the case of the T1? Has anybody determined the cause of the GG1 gear problems? How many M1's don't have the rear set of wheels? Can they possibly be testing these things before shipping? What percentage of the engines are lemons right out of the box? I have some real reservations about purchasing any of these at this point. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:59:28 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI quality From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 18:23:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI quality Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:51:49 -0800 (PST) From: ealauterbach@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI quality X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I model in both O (3 rail) and HO. Problems with engines are common in both scales and among many of the manufacturers. MTH and Lionel routinely have problems as does Bachmann in HO scale. If you watch the ogaugerr.com message board you will see complaints about engines all the time. The actually seem to have more problems with electronics than the HO scale railroaders. The recent Lionel NYC S1 had quite a few problems for example. The Lionel scale T1 had a tender wiring issue and MTH sound boards (PS1, not PS2) are known to need chip replacements. Bachmann's new HO scale N&W J still has the pilot and trailing truck connecting pieces still have to be switched when you get the engine. (Bachmann's quality is a lot better than it used to be. I think they are past the botchman days) I think we need to give BLI the benifit of the doubt. They are building models we want and seem to be planning to build even more. They are also giving very good customer service and they listen to our comments about upcoming models! I don't mind the occassional bad engine as long as they fix the problem. We are entering a golden period of Pennsy engines in plastic with sound. Eric ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR J1a exposed sand pipes or not? Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 19:06:12 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gary: I have two brass J-1's, one is an AHM and the other is a Key. Personally, I wish they had inside the sand pipes. Larry Reynolds ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" To: "Sam Vastano" Cc: ; Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR J1a exposed sand pipes or not? > Sam, > > What do you mean by more valuable? That really has no bearing > unless its a dealer trying to get rid of it (G). More desirable on the > other hand is something else. Only 10-12 J's had outside delivery sand > pipes and these were all later converted to sand lines under the boiler > skin. So if you want an outside sand line J, you are limiting yourself > to the earlier era. I have to check the dates on when they were actually > converted over. I think most people prefer the inside sand lines. Was it > AHM that modeled the exposed sand lines? Key did them both ways. It just > comes to what YOU prefer. I have both......Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work! > > PRR K4s Loco Pics: > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ > > PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > > and...... > > PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI quality Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 19:15:22 -0500 From: ealauterbach@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI quality From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 19:30:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR J1a exposed sand pipes or not? MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, More on the J's. Thanks to an email we can now put #6450 and #6472, both J1's in the list of outside sand lines. According Roger Keyser and his J article in the March 1982 Keystone, he states that there were at least 11 J1's and 3 J1a's that had the outside lines. So far I think I have 9 J's and 1 J1a on the list. Need to find 4 more! He also states that it is believed some J's retained the outside lines til the end. I was told otherwise. Roger also says this is hard to determine which is true. .....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Lettering Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 19:32:59 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry and list, I don't know of any book that shows the letter shapes for PRR passenger cars. Perhaps somebody made up a one-of-a-kind book by cutting individual letters out of the PRR alphabet and number tracings. The following are the tracing numbers for standard PRR passenger car block style alphabets and numbers. All of these should be available from the PRRT&HS microfilm. See the Society's web site for details on ordering. C-15746 Detail of 7" Letters, Sheet No. 1, 6/5/1901 to Futura [Shows coved P and S; letters outlined with 1/8" black line] C-15747 Detail of 7" Letters, Sheet No. 2, 6/5/1901 to Futura [Shows letters outlined with 1/8" black line] C-424561 Detail of 7" Letters, Sheet No. 1, 8/26/1941 to mid-1962 [Original issue showed coved P and S; reissued shows round P and S as of 2/25/1942. No black outline.] C-424562 Detail of 7" Letters, Sheet No. 2, 8/26/1941 to mid-1962 [No black outline] C-65426 6" Letters, 8/24/1920 to Futura [Original issue showed coved P and S; used on B74a, R50b, MP38 type, and wooden baggage cars and postal cars]; made standard again 8/1/1945 [Shows round P and S] D-92250 Detail of 6" Numerals, 3/20/1930 to Futura [Shows numerals outlined with 3/32" black line] D-424573 Detail of 6" Numerals, 8/29/1941 to 1968 [No black outline] C-93642 Four Inch Letters, 9/30/1930 [Original issue showed coved P and S. An undated ( probably ca 2/25/1942) revision shows round P and S. Oddly enough the letters B, C, D, G, J,, O, Q, R, U, Z, and & remained coved.] By the way, I have never seen any PRR tracing or other PRR document that refers to the above as Craw Clarendon, only as block letters. Can anybody give a reference to an authentic PRR source for Craw Clarendon, or shall we consign that to the growing scrap heap of railfan inventions? Bob Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: Cc: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 10:47 AM Subject: [PRR] PRR Lettering | Bob Johnson, list: | | I saw -- a long time ago in a land far, far away (and I've forgotten | where) -- a book or series of blueprint sheets that had the individual | letters and numbers the Pennsy used for spec'ing lettering of rolling | stock. | | I am specifically interested in 1950's passenger car lettering. The | whole alphabet and all numbers would be needed. | | Does anyone have such a book or sheets? What about the Society archives? | | The driving interest is to scan these letters to make digital outlines | and produce TrueType and PostScript fonts. They would become freely | available to anyone who wants them. | | (Note: The Adobe Clarendon font is NOT a match for the Pennsy's Craw | Clarendon, though many parts of it are close.) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI quality Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 18:52:05 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: FWIW, my T1 ran as smooth as can be out of the box. My ONLY complaint is that I don't know how to ever get the tender shell off the trucks. Though I may never have to: you can do nearly everything in ops mode programming. My M1b had some hiccups in running. No. 1 rule from the PC: when in doubt, reboot. Per their instructions (received within a couple hours of my email to them) I did a hard reset (jumper in the tender, which shell does come off easily after removing the screws) and everything works spectacular. I did also have to clean the wheels which were exceptionally gunked up. BLI mentions lubrication---they don't want to ship with too much as it get on the paint job, etc, etc. They should also mention the wheel and contact cleaning: it looks like they might have some protective grease or something, also a good idea for an ocean shipment from China. In other words, do a cleaning job, though the T1 from Korea was truly RTR---I did lubricate it after about 20 minutes of playing with it, as recommended. I don't think anyone has yet done justice to describing the software in these locos. I don't think I will ever need a programming track again, at least for a BLI loco. Everything can be done in ops mode programming. In fact, after doing all kinds of calculations to enter the long address in the decoderusing CVs 17, 18, and 29, I discovered that the first CV I accessed, 17, on my NCE system allowed me to enter the four digit number on the mainline, then asked me if I wanted to switch to use of the four digit address. One-two and I was done. And of course all CV values can be read out (voice) from the main. All functions can be tuned up or down for volume from the main. I wish now I could afford an M1a to doublehead,but I have to save my pennies for the J I have on order. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 4:22 PM Subject: [PRR] BLI quality > First let me say that I don't intend this as a bash. Does it seem like BLI > has an inordinate number of quality issues compared to the other > manufacturers? Everyone appears to be so excited about getting these engines > that they are willing to accept some pretty shoddy quality control issues. > Does anyone think the initial problems will be replaced by ongoing quality > issues after some hours of running? In other words how durable are the > mechanisms? If they fail during break in how good can they be in the long > run in the case of the T1? Has anybody determined the cause of the GG1 gear > problems? How many M1's don't have the rear set of wheels? Can they possibly > be testing these things before shipping? What percentage of the engines are > lemons right out of the box? I have some real reservations about purchasing > any of these at this point. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: "PRR-Talk LIST" From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Lettering Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 20:08:17 -0500 To: "Bob Johnson" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Jan 30, 2004, at 7:32 PM, Bob Johnson wrote: > By the way, I have never seen any PRR tracing or other PRR document > that > refers to the above as Craw Clarendon, only as block letters. Can > anybody > give a reference to an authentic PRR source for Craw Clarendon, or > shall we > consign that to the growing scrap heap of railfan inventions? Interesting observation, Bob, now where did I get it from? I know I've seen/heard it in multiple places. ------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 20:18:31 -0500 From: Phil Balles Subject: [PRR] Passenger car diaphragms Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List Any suggestions on appropriate HO scale passenger car diaphragm vendors / part numbers for P70s and/or B60s, circa 1950? Thanks Phil Balles ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "George Rudy" Subject: [PRR] Loco List? Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 20:26:38 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner-VirusCheck: Found to be clean Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Where can I find info on which locomotives and rolling stock were in use in 1940 on the middle division? Thanks, George Rudy New Bloomfield, Pa. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 20:29:13 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Trust Plates, X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-10 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: aurora7@juno.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: What always struck me was the railroad company still paying on these locomotives, huge pieces of complex machinery sitting idle! As soon as they owned them outright, they scrapped them! I know it was done everywhere, but it goes against my Yankee thriftiness. Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "There are no stupid questions, but there are many inquisitive idiots." ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 21:33:09 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Lettering Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bob Johnson wrote: >By the way, I have never seen any PRR tracing or other PRR document that >refers to the above as Craw Clarendon, only as block letters. Can anybody >give a reference to an authentic PRR source for Craw Clarendon, or shall we >consign that to the growing scrap heap of railfan inventions? > Greetings to Bob, Jerry and the List: Only one "source" that I've ever seen, and it was a secondary one at best -- a caption in a popular PRR locomotive book of the early 1960s. Every other printed reference to that typeface name seems to have followed that initial usage. Basically, this means that in all of the PRR research that people have conducted over the last 40 years, no one has ever independently verified that (1) "Craw Clarendon" or "CrawClarendon" is the correct name, or that either of those terms really is an actual typeface name, and (2) the PRR style of type is truly that typeface, whatever the name is. It should be added that we haven't seen such verification either from the PRR-document side, or from the world of typography. We do know for sure that a Clarendon family of type exists, but whether the PRR style is legitimately part of it remains in question. Until verified (and I'm not holding my breath), I'd vote for the scrap heap you mentioned. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 21:44:28 -0500 From: Bill Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI quality Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" wrote: > > Food for thought. > > With the exception of Bachmann (Kader Industries), I believe that NONE of the > production done in China is done in a factory owned or even controlled by the > company offering the product in the U.S. Production time is brokered to ALL > of the U.S. companies offering products made in China. A lot of the products > offered by separate manufacturers are actually produced in the same > factories. It would seem that the QC problems may be related to the fact > that the actual production is done for a "job lot" time slice. There is no > learning of a manufacturer product line to gain experience with that product > line to avoid common problems on the "next" model. The next model is > probably being done for a competitor. > > Of course, I could be wrong. > > Dennis Actually, MTH built their own factory about a year ago. There were the normal issues about controlling/improving quality along with a problem concerning possible theft of designs that were purportedly given to the factory producing Lionel engines. That dispute is currently in the US court system. MTH's recent Premier Line engines are very well done. Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 21:54:35 -0500 From: Steve Sharpe Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI quality X-Rcpt-To: Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In my experience with the hobby and toy business there is very little quality control. About 18 years ago I worked 6 weeks for Toys'r'Us Canada. The number of returns for defective merchandise astounded me. I recall people paying several hundred dollars for radio controlled cars and then bringing them back an hour or two later because they were dead out of the box. One of the most memorable times I had while there was a tour of their warehouse in Toronto. The entire perimeter of the building was stacked floor to ceiling (probably 50' high) with stacks and skids of defective goods that had been returned. They had a devil of a time returning them to manufacturers who of course did not want to take them. To their credit they donated a fair amount of stuff to local charities for repair and distribution to needy families. Even though my model railroading interest was dormant at that time I do recall seeing a lot of trains in those piles. -- Steve sbs@milestone-media.com • ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 22:23:44 -0500 From: Jerry Jordak Subject: [PRR] Re: Tiger Valley Models Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: sjlash wrote: > Hi Guys, I was wondering if any of you know who the distributor is for > this company. I remember an e mail a while ago with this information, but > with changing computers, I must have lost the information. Thanks Jim I think they sell direct. They have a new web site at http://www.lynnet.com/~tigervalley/ where you can find more details on their products, along with contact information. -JWJ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 22:35:38 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Trust Plates, X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 46 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In a message dated 1/30/04 7:31:17 PM, aurora7@juno.com writes: << What always struck me was the railroad company still paying on these locomotives, huge pieces of complex machinery sitting idle! As soon as they owned them outright, they scrapped them! I know it was done everywhere, but it goes against my Yankee thriftiness. >> ********************** Wasn't this strategy simply a function of the IRS regulations? When the locomotives were fully depreciated, they were "worthless," especially if they were not in revenue producing service. And, since the RR didn't owned the engine, the RR probably got paid by the bank/owner to scrap the engine. Accountants? Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRTRAINS@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 23:08:54 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Old Keystone article Can I get a copy of this list sent to me? Bob P. --part1_93.389d22b2.2d4c8456_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Can I get a copy of this list sent=20= to me?
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;            =    Bob P. --part1_93.389d22b2.2d4c8456_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRTRAINS@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 23:36:24 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI quality Where is D&S Hobbies now is used to be in NJ. correct? --part1_152.29ae3de9.2d4c8ac8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Where is D&S Hobbies now is use= d to be in NJ. correct? --part1_152.29ae3de9.2d4c8ac8_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRTRAINS@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 23:39:57 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI quality This was 18 years ago electronics have come a long way. Your PC and the web were on now will be antiques 18 years from now. Softwear moves so so FAST. --part1_6b.2199242e.2d4c8b9d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" This was 18 years ago electronics h= ave come a long way.  Your PC and the web were on now will be antiques=20= 18 years from now. Softwear moves so so FAST. --part1_6b.2199242e.2d4c8b9d_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR] R50b Use, Lettering Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 23:43:41 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Ben, Jerry, list, Ben is correct. The note refers to crossing off the RAILWAY EXPRESS AGENCY lettering on the relevant lettering arrangement drawings. This policy, by the way, is of enormous benefit to us today, because we can still see what had been done previously, even though it was crossed off. We couldn't do that, if it had been erased. I doubt that there was any special campaign to wipe out the old lettering. I know of no photograph that shows a car with the REA lettering painted over. As Ben said, the instruction meant that cars repainted after 2-17-1954 would not get the RAILWAY EXPRESS AGENCY letttering. Cars that already had it would keep it until the next time they were repainted, which could be many years. The tracings that contain this note are: C-429417 Passenger Cars Painting, Lettering & Numbering Arrangement Sheet No. 1, 9-29-1943, and C-429418 Passenger Cars Painting, Lettering & Numbering Arrangement Sheet No. 2, 9-29-1943. Together, these two show the spacing and arrangement for most of the PRR-owned passenger cars then in existence. The exact wording of the note is "Lettering relative to Railway Express Agency has been crossed off to conform to new contract with Railway Express Agency, Inc. 2-17-54". It applied to every type of car that was leased to REA, not just to R50b. I don't know the details of the contracts (before and after 2-17-54), but I suspect the Pennsy was charging the REA extra for the lettering. Perhaps REA decided it wasn't worth it. Bob Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 12:25 PM Subject: [PRR] R50b Use, Lettering | Bruce Smith recently made a post about the PRR Pro group's next | project, the R50b. In the PRR Pro archive I found Bob Johnson's | comments about R50b lettering. This one in particular caught my eye... | | "n - On 2-15-1954 the lettering "RAILWAY EXPRESS AGENCY" was crossed | off and no longer applied to cars." | | Does "was crossed off" mean it was crossed off the lettering diagram | with regard to future application, or literally crossed off the cars? | | If literally crossed off the cars, was this a cross off or a "patch" | painting over? | | What led to this, was the REA no longer performing the express reefer | service...reverting it to the Pennsy itself? | | If the Pennsy was now (as of 1954) performing the express reefer | service, would the loading/unloading have been done on the passenger | station platforms or a the LCL freight house? | | I'm thinking of, of course, my Harrisburg layout set in fall of 1954, | several months after this lettering change would have taken place. (So | I'll probably want some cars with, and some without, the REA lettering.) | | There's a video that shows several minutes of footage at the east end | of Harrisburg. I think it might be one of the Pennsylvania Glory | volumes. Either that or one of the Penn Valley Pictures videos. The | shots I am thinking of were taken from the Mulberry Street bridge and | look across the passenger tracks towards the REA building and the | freight house beyond. There are reefers in the foreground...accessible | via the passenger platforms. Are these reefers here, ready to be added | to trains, or are they being loaded here by the PRR (rather than the | REA)? | ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton asked: Does "was crossed off" mean it was crossed off the lettering diagram with regard to future application, or literally crossed off the cars? Crossed off the lettering diagram WRT future application. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 20:51:17 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Lettering Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 06:14:48 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Lettering From: "Frederic H. Abendschein" From: GFPat420@aol.com Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 08:43:11 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Trust Plates, Don't know about the IRS regulations, but the trust plate and concurrent ICC registration protected the owner against the railroad scrapping a piece of equipment which the railroad didn't own. We've all heard stories of equipment sitting around in scrap lines for years until the trust ran out (i.e., the equipment was paid off). I've also heard stories of trust plates being moved from wrecked equipment to a good piece of equipment. Don't know if that's true or not. G.F.P. --part1_149.214927db.2d4d0aef_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Don't know about the IRS regulation= s, but the trust plate and concurrent ICC registration protected the owner a= gainst the railroad scrapping a piece of equipment which the railroad didn't= own.  We've all heard stories of equipment sitting around in scrap lin= es for years until the trust ran out (i.e., the equipment was paid off).&nbs= p; I've also heard stories of trust plates being moved from wrecked equipmen= t to a good piece of equipment.  Don't know if that's true or not.

G.F.P. --part1_149.214927db.2d4d0aef_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: "PRR-Talk LIST" From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] R50b Use, Lettering Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 10:36:01 -0500 To: "Bob Johnson" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Jan 30, 2004, at 11:43 PM, Bob Johnson wrote: > The exact wording of the note is "Lettering relative to Railway Express > Agency has been crossed off to conform to new contract with Railway > Express > Agency, Inc. 2-17-54". It applied to every type of car that was > leased to > REA, not just to R50b. So that would include the B60b's then? Hmmm. My N scale decalling work may have just gotten easier! Of course, most cars in 9/54 would still have the REA. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 14:04:20 EST Subject: [PRR] Classic Trains The Spring issue showed up today and has a great article on the eventful first road trip of a Lines West fireman. Lee Rainey --part1_c3.3d5c742e.2d4d5634_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" The Spring issue showed up today an= d has a great article on the eventful first road trip of a Lines West firema= n.

Lee Rainey --part1_c3.3d5c742e.2d4d5634_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 15:10:07 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR Ft. Wayne Div. The Spring 2004 issue of Classic Trains has a steam era story by a fireman on this division. My copy arrived in today's mail. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1075579806 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
The Spring 2004 issue of Classic Trains has a steam era story by a fire= man on this division.
My copy arrived in today's mail.

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1075579806-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:21:07 EST Subject: [PRR] Like an everyday car loan. In a message dated 1/31/04 1:13:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Trust Plates, > From: > Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 22:35:38 EST > > > In a message dated 1/30/04 7:31:17 PM, aurora7@juno.com writes: > > << What always struck me was the railroad company still paying on these > locomotives, huge pieces of complex machinery sitting idle! As soon as > they owned them outright, they scrapped them! I know it was done > everywhere, but it goes against my Yankee thriftiness. >> > ********************** > > > Wasn't this strategy simply a function of the IRS regulations? > > When the locomotives were fully depreciated, they were "worthless," > especially if they were not in revenue producing service. And, since the RR > didn't > owned the engine, the RR probably got paid by the bank/owner to scrap the > engine. > > Accountants? > > Regards, Marty > No, think more like a car loan. The equipment was not being rented. It was the security for a loan the railroad had taken out to purchase the equipment. Stop paying, and you destroy your credit -- not smart. The obligation continued whether the equipment was in use, in storage, or stored useless. Once the loan was discharged, the newly free-and-clear owner was free to scrap 'em -- but that decision depended on scrap prices, the used loco market, the possibility of needing peaking power later, and so on. Same logic you'd use on a paid-off car -- drive it, trade it, park it, or junk it. Notice leases, used more nowadays, are different. Leases are a contract to rent equipment for a minimum time. At the end of the lease period, the asset goes back to the financing organization. Thus, if a leased group of engines turns out to be turkeys, they can go back to the lessor the day the lease is up. Notice that the risk of obsolescence is always borne by the buyer -- but the railroads probably bet wrong when they became "buyer" of steam under an equipment trust. But with a lease, the lessor (bank, financing company, whatever) assumes the buyers' risk. I wonder if this means the newest, least proved loco designs are poor candidates for lease? Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_10.3b24ec57.2d4d8453_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 1/31/04 1:13:40=20= AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:


Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Trust Pl= ates,
From: <LAMAassoc@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 22:35:38 EST


In a message dated 1/30/04 7:31:17 PM, aurora7@juno.com writes:

<< What always struck me was the railroad company still paying on thes= e
locomotives, huge pieces of complex machinery sitting idle!  As soon as=
they owned them outright, they scrapped them!  I know it was done
everywhere, but it goes against my Yankee thriftiness. >>
**********************


Wasn't this strategy simply a function of the IRS regulations?

When the locomotives were fully depreciated, they were "worthless,"
especially if they were not in revenue producing service. And, since the RR=20= didn't
owned the engine, the RR probably got paid by the bank/owner to scrap the en= gine.

Accountants?

Regards, Marty


No, think more like a car loan.  The equipment was not being rented.&nb= sp; It was the security for a loan the railroad had taken out to purchase th= e equipment.  Stop paying, and you destroy your credit -- not smart.&nb= sp; The obligation continued whether the equipment was in use, in storage, o= r stored useless.

Once the loan was discharged, the newly free-and-clear owner was free to scr= ap 'em -- but that decision depended on scrap prices, the used loco market,=20= the possibility of needing peaking power later, and so on.  Same logic=20= you'd use on a paid-off car -- drive it, trade it, park it, or junk it.

Notice leases, used more nowadays, are different.  Leases are a contrac= t to rent equipment for a minimum time.  At the end of the lease period= , the asset goes back to the financing organization.  Thus, if a leased= group of engines turns out to be turkeys, they can go back to the lessor th= e day the lease is up.

Notice that the risk of obsolescence is always borne by the buyer -- but the= railroads probably bet wrong when they became "buyer" of steam under an equ= ipment trust.  But with a lease, the lessor (bank, financing company, w= hatever) assumes the buyers' risk.  I wonder if this means the newest,=20= least proved loco designs are poor candidates for lease?

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_10.3b24ec57.2d4d8453_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!!