Message

John,

While I don't have a timetable to reference, I'd have to question your=20= findings about the tower hours. While I was too young to recall specif= ics in 1966, 10 years later while I was in college, I had the opportunity to= visit Bryn Mawr tower on several occasions and know for a fact that it was=20= open until 10 or 10:30pm Monday through Friday. I'm fairly certain it=20= was closed on Saturday and Sundays. There was at the time no provision= s for remote operation of Bryn Mawr interlocking, so without an operator on=20= duty, it would be impossible to 'turn' the Bryn Mawr MU sets at Bryn Mawr.

Mark

In a message dated 12/24/2003 12:10:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, bobsin= @nac.net writes:

Timetable No. 21 (1966) shows westward locals=20= terminating at
Bryn Mawr, Mon-Fri ex hol, at 5.55 am, 6.51. 7.27, 7.52,=20= 8.22,
8.51, 9.21, 11.36, 12.51 pm, 1.51, 2.22, 2.51, 3.25, 3.36, 3.55, <= BR>4.18, 4.35, 4.47, 5.03, 6.36, and 7.41 pm. Note the ext= remely
dense schedule 3-5 pm!

Again, the interlocking station in=20= 1966 was in service, 5.30 am to
9.30 am, only. So how were all the= se trains handled after 9:30 am?

John Bobsin

-------------------------------1072244728-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] RS1 & 3 Horns Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 00:42:30 -0600 Doug asked-- > >I am curious as to what kind of horns are on the RS 1 & >3 (AS10 & 16)? = I know the "stock" horns are not >right. Who makes them? > Most of the RS-1's had a single trumpet horn mounted centered above the = windows, below the roof overhang, pointing forward (long hood). The = RS-3's had two normal configurations. The engines with the single beam = headlights had three trumpets all facing forward (long hood), mounted on = the hood immediately forward of the cab. I think you can use the Custom = Finishes 247-222. The engines with two vertical sealed beam headlights = had three trumpets, two forward, one to the rear, mounted on a bracket = that protruded from the front cab face just below the roof overhang = centered between the windows. CalScale 190-400 is perfect, includes the = bracket. And if you have a model with horizontal sealed beam = headlights, carefully scrape off the housing and use a Detail Associates = 229-1012 "Pyle Conversion Plate". As always try to work from a photo since changes did occur. Merry Christmas! Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_0AF1_01C3C9B6.CFF7F2F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Doug asked--

>I am curious as to what kind of = horns are on=20 the RS 1 & >3 (AS10 &=20 16)? I know the "stock" horns = are not=20 >right. Who makes them?

Most of the RS-1's had a single trumpet = horn=20 mounted centered above the windows, below the roof overhang, pointing = forward=20 (long hood). The RS-3's had two normal configurations. The = engines=20 with the single beam headlights had three trumpets all facing forward = (long=20 hood), mounted on the hood immediately forward of the cab. I think = you can=20 use the Custom Finishes 247-222. The engines with two vertical = sealed beam=20 headlights had three trumpets, two forward, one to the rear, mounted on = a=20 bracket that protruded from the front cab face just below the roof=20 overhang centered between the windows. CalScale 190-400 is = perfect,=20 includes the bracket. And if you have a model with horizontal = sealed beam=20 headlights, carefully scrape off the housing and use a Detail Associates = 229-1012 "Pyle Conversion Plate".

As always try to work from a photo = since changes=20 did occur.

Merry Christmas!

Steve Hoxie

Pensacola FL

------=_NextPart_000_0AF1_01C3C9B6.CFF7F2F0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 08:03:13 -0500 From: Joe Witcofsky Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Commuter (Bryn Mawr) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 08:38:22 -0500 Subject: [PRR] BLI T1's Have Arrived! From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <716CA81B-3616-11D8-ACCE-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The T1's have arrived...at BLI, that is. They are due to ship to dealers on Friday. New photos have been posted to BLI's web site. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 08:43:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Commuter (Bryn Mawr) From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 09:19:31 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Imperfect timetables? Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 10:11:17 -0500 From: Joe Witcofsky Subject: RE: [PRR] Imperfect timetables? From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Imperfect timetables? Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 10:40:34 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 In-reply-to: <1139847006-442099020@dsop.com> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Re: John's comment - "on the East End of Long Island -- territory where the old PRR rules still endure, unsignaled "dark" railroad, with operation using block-limit stations for conferring authority." ------------------ Although I don't have access to the LIRR Rule Book and ETT the term "dark railroad" typically refers to territory where all operations are conducted using TT&TO rules and there are no fixed signals other that TO signals. If block-limit stations were in place it appears that Manual Block Signal System Rules were in effect, and if so this IS NOT correctly referred to as "dark territory." It is in fact signaled territory. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] Merry Christmas Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 13:35:13 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gents, I just wanted to wish everybody Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas, and may your stocking be filled with coal for your tenders and hoppers. -John ----------------------------------------------------------- Member PRRT&HS #7237, Northern Central Chapter Member Miniature Railroad Club of York #161 Dispatcher for the York Connecting Railroad Superintendent of the Tuckahoe Valley Railroad Route of the "Golden Arrow" ----------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 12:27:54 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] Bowser B6sb arrival From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 15:30:23 -0500 Subject: RE: [PRR] In the Dark From: "John Cooper" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Commuter (Bryn Mawr) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 10:27:46 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I had always understood the "pocket" to be the sections of main track right along the platform, not the siding. The cantilevered signals at the ends of the platforms allow another train to go 3-4 infront of a westbound at the platform. Likewise, a train could go 2-1 in front of an eastbound at the platform. Better yet, a following westbound could go 4-3-4 around the local at the platform, and vise-versa for eastbound. Even though the pocket is neat in concept, I have to believe it was not actually as useful as it might seem. In order for a local train to get to the station platform while a "stop" is displayed on the cantelivered signal, it would have to have an "approach" indication on the distant signal, and a "slow approach" at the home signal. Thus any approaching local would have to run at 30mph for two stations prior to Bryn Mawr. This, along with the fact that Overbrook is only 5 miles away (less than 5 minutes run), makes its use questionable to me. Probably the greatest operating benefit is for getting around trains that are laying over at Bryn Mawr. The description of the Bryn Mawr Turn crossing all the way over to 1 and then backing into the station is correct. But this has its own operating curiousities. Normally if a train were to do this, it would need a train order, or some such, to proceed west on 1 beyond the interlocking. However in the case of Bryn Mawr, the distant signal on 1 at Villanova is actually a controlled signal. The operator would set that signal to "stop" allowing the Bryn Mawr local to crossover and be protected beyond the interlocking. When the Bryn Mawr local would crossover, it would get a "restricting" on the home signal, and an "approach" at Ardmore. Thus it was limited to 30mph after Ardmore. But because of the cabsignal code change point, it was further limited to 15mph for the last half of the way from Haverford to Bryn Mawr. This made the crossover move very time-consuming, not to mention that it blocked all the other tracks. It would be interesting to know why they didn't drop the passengers off on the outbound platform, allowing the train to run normal speed on "clear" signals the whole way. It would then take more moves instead get over to track 1, but at least they would be a deadhead moves rather than revenue, and would seem to tie up the railroad less overall. And if the inbound passengers were loaded on the outbound platform instead, then it would certainly be quicker overall. The eastbound cantilevered signal was removed around 1972, the westbound was still there last time I visited. It would be interesting to know why someone went to the trouble to remove a single signal and with it the operating flexibility. And looking at the operating patterns, why one would remove the eastbound signal and keep the westbound is even more baffling, though maybe having bi-directional signaling on track 3 was a factor. Overbrook also has the same design, though the signals are on masts and not cantilevered. John ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Commuter (Bryn Mawr) > Having grown up near Bryn Mawr and watching this operation countless times as a youngster, I can offer some observations. > > Yes, the 'Bryn Mawr' local only ran during rush hours. Bryn Mawr was a full interlocking, allowing 1-4 and 4-1 moves. In addition, as stated in another post, there was an MU pocket on the east bound main just west of the platform. Typically, the locals would arrive westbound, crossing over and skipping the westbound platforms. The set would then return to the eastbound platform to let passengers off. In most cases, the set would then back westbound into the pocket and wait for it's scheduled departure time. > > The tower at Bryn Mawr, which I had the pleasure to visit numerous times, was a simple affair, and only open from 5:30 to 10:30pm. > > For what it's worth, a trip to the Bryn Mawr area can still offer the visitor some interesting views. There is a sub-station there for the catenary. The old 'herring style' brick platforms remain, along with the original lamp standards, as they have for many years (at least all were still there on my last visit a few years back). In addition, the old stone freight house is still there, but I believe it is now a restaurant. Of course, along with the full interlocking, there is also a full set of signals protecting the interlocking. The complex makes for a perfect 'cross-section' of PRR mainline operations. I always wondered why, with all it's components still in place, not more is mentioned about this interesting stop on the main line. > > In the day, Bryn Mawr made for a great place to sit and watch trains. Ah, the memories!!! > > Mark > > In a message dated 12/23/2003 8:58:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, bobsin@nac.net writes: > > >Timetable No. 21 (1966) shows lots of trains originating/terminating > >at Bryn Mawr, but no indication of movements of equipment for the > >scheduled trains. (Did PRR ever show "deadhead" or "equipment" > >trains to position equipment? Many roads do show these moves in > >the operating timetables.) Many "could" have been turned -- the > >first westbound of the day, No. 001 (Get that number! The One- > >Spot!) arrives at 5.55 a.m., and No. 002 leaves at 6.04; next, 003 > >comes in at 6.51, and 012 leaves at 7.00. (Hmm, what happened > >to 002, 004 etc?) But this breaks down later in the day, not all > >departures seem to follow arrivals. > > > >Here's another clue: the interlocking station at Bryn Mawr was only > >in service 5.30 am to 9.30 am, M-F ex holidays. Could it be that > >trains turned during these hours, and otherwise proceeded to/from > >Paoli? Bryn Mawr was the only interlocking between Overbrook > >and Paoli, by the way. And I'm assuming that there were > >crossovers at Bryn Mawr to allow commuter trains to reverse, > >presumably crossing over from Track 4 to Track 1. > > > >John Bobsin > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 16:24:14 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser B6sb arrival X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 22,25-33 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: aurora7@juno.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I'm glad Doug has the privilege of adding another Pennsy loco to his collection. I have a Bowser G5 to assemble and add to my Long Island Rail Road. I am a bit perturbed by the number of criticisms regarding Bowser's locomotives. For a long time, many of us had to accept little Mantua 0-4-0's as Pennsy switchers, since that was all that was available. If you could afford brass, you could get a really nice looking engine, but the trade off was price. Now I happen to have problems with the prices of most model locomotives, being a Yankee and a cheapskate by nature. I am fortunate to own a few brass PRR locomotives. I also have a pre-war version of the Bowser K4, which I think is a terrific locomotive. BLI is now producing Pennsy style locomotives with plastic boilers and the detail is supposed to be great. The caveat is that you are paying brass prices for a plastic loco. Bowser kits aren't cheap, but they are metal, heavyweight, and pretty darn authentic to prototypes. Pennsy had enough of each of it's fleet classes to modify locos in an amazing variety. To say one model isn't good enough to match a specifc design seems a bit short sighted. There are lots of tricks in model railroading, and one of them is to allow for the fact that you are reproducing something that is almost entirely extinct. Maybe we should cut Bowser a little slack and be grateful for a business that has supplied a craving for Pennsylvania Railroad steam locomotives for a long, long, time. Many of us would have nothing to run from our favorite prototype road, if Bowser hadn't been casting our favorite fleet. Just my two cents. Have a great holiday, everyone! Maybe this is the year that they'll find that abandoned steel mill with the T1, J1, and Q2, locked up inside. Dick Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "There are no stupid questions, but there are many inquisitive idiots." ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RBurg74133@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 17:17:33 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Trach Charts - New Jersey Weldon, I don't know if you got the info on "SC" cabin. I finally found my copy of a book on interlockings on the NY Division. There is a 1 page diagram of URR OF NJ, NY DIVISION SHANLEY'S CUT - "SC CABIN" HOWEVER IT IS DATED 1905. Would this be of any help? Ray Burghart SPF -------------------------------1072304252 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

Weldon,

I don't know if you got the info on "SC"= cabin. I finally found my copy of a book on interlockings on the NY Di= vision. There is a 1 page diagram of URR OF NJ, NY DIVISION SHANLEY'S CUT -=20= "SC CABIN" HOWEVER IT IS DATED 1905. Would this be of any help?=

Ray Burghart SPF

-------------------------------1072304252-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 22:47:07 -0800 (PST) From: m repka Subject: [PRR] Bedford Pa. line Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk , Conrail-talk , Reading-talk , PRR-ER From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Holiday Greetings Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 12:51:11 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Good morning all! Hope you and yours are having a pleasant morning. Here in southcentral Pennsylvania the sun is shining and it is quite nice out. Hope you awoke to roundhouses with new steam locomotives, shops with new diesels, yards with new rolling stock, and terminals with new varnish. My own PRR-ER received another dozen InterMountain wood reefers in WFE's 1952 scheme. Stay safe, enjoy, and happy holidays from your Listmaster! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Peters" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Commuter (Bryn Mawr) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 15:02:51 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Look again should be 930 PM...................typo or your error Boomer ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2003 12:00 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Commuter (Bryn Mawr) > Timetable No. 21 (1966) shows westward locals terminating at > Bryn Mawr, Mon-Fri ex hol, at 5.55 am, 6.51. 7.27, 7.52, 8.22, > 8.51, 9.21, 11.36, 12.51 pm, 1.51, 2.22, 2.51, 3.25, 3.36, 3.55, > 4.18, 4.35, 4.47, 5.03, 6.36, and 7.41 pm. Note the extremely > dense schedule 3-5 pm! > > Again, the interlocking station in 1966 was in service, 5.30 am to > 9.30 am, only. So how were all these trains handled after 9:30 am? > > John Bobsin > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Peters" Subject: Re: [PRR] In the Dark Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 15:25:11 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: FYI Dark territory is without any signal rules, including Manual Block. Block-Limit signals are respected the same as Block Signals, except authority is conveyed verbally at the block-limit station or by clearance card form "K" (1966 time frame) If you look at your 1966 timetable carefully, you will see on the LIRR that the m/l was manual block from PW Block Station (controlled fom B Tower) to GY (Greenport) with several points with position light block signals including DK, SG, CI and Ronkonkoma. The last 4 hads ops part/time. On the Montauk Br. the manual block system ran from Y (Sayville) to MY (Montauk) Y was controlled from PD, a block station with fixed signals as was MS (Mastic-Shirley) One again the Port Jeff Br. from Smithtown to Port Jeff was manual block with fixed signals at Smithtown, Stoney Brook and Port Jeff. The West Hempstead Br, was manual block with fixed signal at Valley. PRR or LIRR to my knowledge in recent times (1925 on) never had dark territory on main tracks. K cards could give you one or more blocks ahead i.e the op at PD could give you the entire way "clear Block" to MY on one K card by each block-limit if the blocks were indeed clear, which he had control over with the DS........................boomer PS Dark means timetable train orders ONLY ----- Origin al Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2003 3:30 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] In the Dark > Well, dunno what the "official" definition of Dark Railroad would be, > but to me it means lines operated by timetable and train orders, > without benefit of automatic or manual block signals. That would > describe the LIRR"s single track Main Line from Ronkonkoma to > Greenport, and Montauk Branch from Mastic-Shirley to Montauk > (46 and 53 miles respectively). In 1966, the timetable I'm reading, > there were only block-limit stations, not block stations, and to my > knowledge no manual block signals either. For those of you who > just ride the Big Red Subway, a block limit station is basically a > passive post with the station name or signal letters on it, denoting > the end of manually-controlled blocks. But no changeable signals, > necessarily (that would be a manual block signal), and I'm pretty > sure the LIRR had none at that time. I guess there have to be > telephones at block-limit stations, before radio anyway, so crews > can call for clearance. The timetable shows which block station > (staffed tower or cabin) controls each manual block station, but I > think this means where the crew calls for permission. Can a > railroad be dark and still have telephones? > > Manual Block System rules are indeed in effect on this trackage, > LIRR rules 305 to 373 except 316; Movement of Trains in Same > Direction by Block Signals also in effect, rules 251, 253 and 254, > only for the stretches I noted I don't think there are any block > signals! Not at most block limit stations, for sure. I've been out > there, there's nothing (well, maybe today they have block signals, > dunno). > > Block limit stations have, in advance, "ABL" signals -- a fixed post > with those letters, Approach Block Limit. Neither the block-limit or > the ABL signals have changeable aspects. Casual observers > would say these are not signals at all, but strictly, they are so > classified. If rulebook examiners wrote motor traffic laws, a no > parking sign would be classified as a traffic signal! > > John Bobsin > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ron Widman" Subject: Re: [PRR] Holiday Greetings Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 18:44:38 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Good evening to everyone and Merry Christmas to all, The Columbus, PRR Lines West, Christmas weather for the day has been sunny to partly cloudy in the high 20's. Earlier today I went for a great two mile walk in the park and thought back a few years to the Pennsy days of a west bound T-1 engine pulling a load of holiday passengers along the double track main leaving Columbus and striding west to Chicago. The great speed of the T-1 engine and cars would no doubt send the snow tumbling around the main line tracks into a whirl of wind and snow as the train passes by. A pleasant scent of coal smoke is in the air as we hear the strong whistle of the T-1 heading off into the miles of main line trackage. Just a few minutes later a mighty eastbound Q-2 with freight train whistles for the crossing at West 5th Avenue in Marble Cliff and is heading into Columbus destined for the 20th street yard and engine/backshop facilities. The bright headlight shines ahead as the thick exhaust from the stack shoots high into the sky before a defining wale from the Q-2 whistle is heard echoing through out the western edge of Marble Cliff and Columbus area. Those folks eating their Christmas suppers are serenaded with a Christmas wish from the engineer on the Q-2. [Don't mind me, I'm just recalling back a few years to late in the year of 1949 and what the sights and sounds of the PRR in Columbus would have been like. Dream on if you wish.....] Clear Block Ahead! Ron, Columbus PRR Lines West. PRRT&HS member. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry @ Pennsy" To: "PRR-talk" ; "Conrail-talk" ; "Reading-talk" ; "PRR-ER" Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2003 12:51 PM Subject: [PRR] Holiday Greetings > Good morning all! Hope you and yours are having a pleasant morning. > Here in southcentral Pennsylvania the sun is shining and it is quite > nice out. > > Hope you awoke to roundhouses with new steam locomotives, shops with > new diesels, yards with new rolling stock, and terminals with new > varnish. My own PRR-ER received another dozen InterMountain wood > reefers in WFE's 1952 scheme. > > Stay safe, enjoy, and happy holidays from your Listmaster! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: MarkCFry@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 20:35:30 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Commuter (Bryn Mawr) John; In the case of Bryn Mawr, when I used the term 'pocket' (and maybe incorrectly so), I was referring to a siding located just west of the eastbound platform. If memory serves me correctly, I believe this was labled '0 Trk'. When the Bryn Mawr local arrived, it would crossover 4-1 and continue westbound down 1 behind the signals. There are signal bridges several hundred yards on either side of the complex but within eye sight of the platforms. The set would then proceed east on 1 to the platform, drop off passengers and then back west into the siding, or as I referred to it previously, the 'pocket'. I can't argue with your logic as to why they might have done it this way, other than to say it offered the 'turning movement' in fewer moves. If the set were to drop off the passengers on the westbound platform, then it would have to proceed west beyond the interlocking, then back through the interlocking again going 4-1, then back west on the eastbound main, past the platforms and into the siding. I remember watching this movement more times than I can remember as a child, watching the old MP54's. I remember thinking how neat it was to watch the cars go through the crossovers! Mark In a message dated 12/24/2003 3:57:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, johncoop@ix.netcom.com writes: I had always understood the "pocket" to be the sections of main track right along the platform, not the siding. The cantilevered signals at the ends of the platforms allow another train to go 3-4 infront of a westbound at the platform. Likewise, a train could go 2-1 in front of an eastbound at the platform. Better yet, a following westbound could go 4-3-4 around the local at the platform, and vise-versa for eastbound. Even though the pocket is neat in concept, I have to believe it was not actually as useful as it might seem. In order for a local train to get to the station platform while a "stop" is displayed on the cantelivered signal, it would have to have an "approach" indication on the distant signal, and a "slow approach" at the home signal. Thus any approaching local would have to run at 30mph for two stations prior to Bryn Mawr. This, along with the fact that Overbrook is only 5 miles away (less than 5 minutes run), makes its use questionable to me. Probably the greatest operating benefit is for getting around trains that are laying over at Bryn Mawr. The description of the Bryn Mawr Turn crossing all the way over to 1 and then backing into the station is correct. But this has its own operating curiousities. Normally if a train were to do this, it would need a train order, or some such, to proceed west on 1 beyond the interlocking. However in the case of Bryn Mawr, the distant signal on 1 at Villanova is actually a controlled signal. The operator would set that signal to "stop" allowing the Bryn Mawr local to crossover and be protected beyond the interlocking. When the Bryn Mawr local would crossover, it would get a "restricting" on the home signal, and an "approach" at Ardmore. Thus it was limited to 30mph after Ardmore. But because of the cabsignal code change point, it was further limited to 15mph for the last half of the way from Haverford to Bryn Mawr. This made the crossover move very time-consuming, not to mention that it blocked all the other tracks. It would be interesting to know why they didn't drop the passengers off on the outbound platform, allowing the train to run normal speed on "clear" signals the whole way. It would then take more moves instead get over to track 1, but at least they would be a deadhead moves rather than revenue, and would seem to tie up the railroad less overall. And if the inbound passengers were loaded on the outbound platform instead, then it would certainly be quicker overall. The eastbound cantilevered signal was removed around 1972, the westbound was still there last time I visited. It would be interesting to know why someone went to the trouble to remove a single signal and with it the operating flexibility. And looking at the operating patterns, why one would remove the eastbound signal and keep the westbound is even more baffling, though maybe having bi-directional signaling on track 3 was a factor. Overbrook also has the same design, though the signals are on masts and not cantilevered. John -------------------------------1072402530 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

John;

In the case of Bryn Mawr, when I used the term 'pocket' (and maybe inco= rrectly so), I was referring to a siding located just west of the eastb= ound platform. If memory serves me correctly, I believe this was labled= '0 Trk'. When the Bryn Mawr local arrived, it would crossover 4-1 and= continue westbound down 1 behind the signals. There are signal b= ridges several hundred yards on either side of the complex but within eye si= ght of the platforms. The set would then proceed east on 1 to the plat= form, drop off passengers and then back west into the siding, or as I referr= ed to it previously, the 'pocket'.

I can't argue with your logic as to why they might have done it this wa= y, other than to say it offered the 'turning movement' in fewer mo= ves. If the set were to drop off the passengers on the westbound platf= orm, then it would have to proceed west beyond the interlocking, then back t= hrough the interlocking again going 4-1, then back west on the eastboun= d main, past the platforms and into the siding.

I remember watching this movement more times than I can remember as a c= hild, watching the old MP54's. I remember thinking how neat it was to watch=20= the cars go through the crossovers!

Mark

In a message dated 12/24/2003 3:57:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, johncoo= p@ix.netcom.com writes:

I had always understood the "pocket" to be the= sections of main track right
along the platform, not the siding. T= he cantilevered signals at the ends of
the platforms allow another train=20= to go 3-4 infront of a westbound at the
platform. Likewise, a train= could go 2-1 in front of an eastbound at the
platform. Better yet,= a following westbound could go 4-3-4 around the local
at the platform, a= nd vise-versa for eastbound.

Even though the pocket is neat in concep= t, I have to believe it was not
actually as useful as it might seem. = ; In order for a local train to get to
the station platform while a "stop= " is displayed on the cantelivered signal,
it would have to have an "appr= oach" indication on the distant signal, and a
"slow approach" at the home= signal. Thus any approaching local would have
to run at 30mph for=20= two stations prior to Bryn Mawr. This, along with the
fact that Ove= rbrook is only 5 miles away (less than 5 minutes run), makes
its use ques= tionable to me. Probably the greatest operating benefit is for
gett= ing around trains that are laying over at Bryn Mawr.

The description=20= of the Bryn Mawr Turn crossing all the way over to 1 and
then backing int= o the station is correct. But this has its own operating
curiousiti= es. Normally if a train were to do this, it would need a train
orde= r, or some such, to proceed west on 1 beyond the interlocking. However=
in the case of Bryn Mawr, the distant signal on 1 at Villanova is actual= ly a
controlled signal. The operator would set that signal to "stop" allo= wing
the Bryn Mawr local to crossover and be protected beyond the interlo= cking.

When the Bryn Mawr local would crossover, it would get a "rest= ricting" on
the home signal, and an "approach" at Ardmore. Thus it=20= was limited to 30mph
after Ardmore. But because of the cabsignal co= de change point, it was
further limited to 15mph for the last half of the= way from Haverford to Bryn
Mawr. This made the crossover move very= time-consuming, not to mention that
it blocked all the other tracks.&nbs= p; It would be interesting to know why they
didn't drop the passengers of= f on the outbound platform, allowing the train
to run normal speed on "cl= ear" signals the whole way. It would then take
more moves instead g= et over to track 1, but at least they would be a
deadhead moves rather th= an revenue, and would seem to tie up the railroad
less overall. And= if the inbound passengers were loaded on the outbound
platform instead,=20= then it would certainly be quicker overall.

The eastbound cantilevere= d signal was removed around 1972, the westbound was
still there last time= I visited. It would be interesting to know why
someone went to the= trouble to remove a single signal and with it the
operating flexibility.= And looking at the operating patterns, why one would
remove the ea= stbound signal and keep the westbound is even more baffling,
though maybe= having bi-directional signaling on track 3 was a factor.

Overbrook a= lso has the same design, though the signals are on masts and not
cantilev= ered.

John

-------------------------------1072402530-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Peters" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Commuter (Bryn Mawr) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 22:02:11 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: As related to me by Paoli Engineers, the eastbound #1 "pocket signal was removed after a near miss or sideswipe when someone ran the signal after stopping in the station. Everything else you said is correct excepting the MU siding was interlocked off #1 and with the extended interlocking on #1 a train order would not be required to go in the siding. Only a few morning trains went in the clear, none in evening. I have already made the station stop westbound, pulled clear of the plant , shoved accross to #1 with the condr. on rear, then changed ends to clear the plant. Also interesting, a special light on westbound signals would tell helpers to cut off at Bryn Mawr instead of Paoli. (before radios) Boomer.......engineer on Paoli line 1973 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Cooper" To: ; ; Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2003 1:27 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Commuter (Bryn Mawr) > I had always understood the "pocket" to be the sections of main track right > along the platform, not the siding. The cantilevered signals at the ends of > the platforms allow another train to go 3-4 infront of a westbound at the > platform. Likewise, a train could go 2-1 in front of an eastbound at the > platform. Better yet, a following westbound could go 4-3-4 around the local > at the platform, and vise-versa for eastbound. > > Even though the pocket is neat in concept, I have to believe it was not > actually as useful as it might seem. In order for a local train to get to > the station platform while a "stop" is displayed on the cantelivered signal, > it would have to have an "approach" indication on the distant signal, and a > "slow approach" at the home signal. Thus any approaching local would have > to run at 30mph for two stations prior to Bryn Mawr. This, along with the > fact that Overbrook is only 5 miles away (less than 5 minutes run), makes > its use questionable to me. Probably the greatest operating benefit is for > getting around trains that are laying over at Bryn Mawr. > > The description of the Bryn Mawr Turn crossing all the way over to 1 and > then backing into the station is correct. But this has its own operating > curiousities. Normally if a train were to do this, it would need a train > order, or some such, to proceed west on 1 beyond the interlocking. However > in the case of Bryn Mawr, the distant signal on 1 at Villanova is actually a > controlled signal. The operator would set that signal to "stop" allowing > the Bryn Mawr local to crossover and be protected beyond the interlocking. > > When the Bryn Mawr local would crossover, it would get a "restricting" on > the home signal, and an "approach" at Ardmore. Thus it was limited to 30mph > after Ardmore. But because of the cabsignal code change point, it was > further limited to 15mph for the last half of the way from Haverford to Bryn > Mawr. This made the crossover move very time-consuming, not to mention that > it blocked all the other tracks. It would be interesting to know why they > didn't drop the passengers off on the outbound platform, allowing the train > to run normal speed on "clear" signals the whole way. It would then take > more moves instead get over to track 1, but at least they would be a > deadhead moves rather than revenue, and would seem to tie up the railroad > less overall. And if the inbound passengers were loaded on the outbound > platform instead, then it would certainly be quicker overall. > > The eastbound cantilevered signal was removed around 1972, the westbound was > still there last time I visited. It would be interesting to know why > someone went to the trouble to remove a single signal and with it the > operating flexibility. And looking at the operating patterns, why one would > remove the eastbound signal and keep the westbound is even more baffling, > though maybe having bi-directional signaling on track 3 was a factor. > > Overbrook also has the same design, though the signals are on masts and not > cantilevered. > > John > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ; > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 2:58 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Commuter (Bryn Mawr) > > > > Having grown up near Bryn Mawr and watching this operation countless times > as a youngster, I can offer some observations. > > > > Yes, the 'Bryn Mawr' local only ran during rush hours. Bryn Mawr was a > full interlocking, allowing 1-4 and 4-1 moves. In addition, as stated in > another post, there was an MU pocket on the east bound main just west of the > platform. Typically, the locals would arrive westbound, crossing over and > skipping the westbound platforms. The set would then return to the > eastbound platform to let passengers off. In most cases, the set would then > back westbound into the pocket and wait for it's scheduled departure time. > > > > The tower at Bryn Mawr, which I had the pleasure to visit numerous times, > was a simple affair, and only open from 5:30 to 10:30pm. > > > > For what it's worth, a trip to the Bryn Mawr area can still offer the > visitor some interesting views. There is a sub-station there for the > catenary. The old 'herring style' brick platforms remain, along with the > original lamp standards, as they have for many years (at least all were > still there on my last visit a few years back). In addition, the old stone > freight house is still there, but I believe it is now a restaurant. Of > course, along with the full interlocking, there is also a full set of > signals protecting the interlocking. The complex makes for a perfect > 'cross-section' of PRR mainline operations. I always wondered why, with all > it's components still in place, not more is mentioned about this interesting > stop on the main line. > > > > In the day, Bryn Mawr made for a great place to sit and watch trains. Ah, > the memories!!! > > > > Mark > > > > In a message dated 12/23/2003 8:58:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, > bobsin@nac.net writes: > > > > >Timetable No. 21 (1966) shows lots of trains originating/terminating > > >at Bryn Mawr, but no indication of movements of equipment for the > > >scheduled trains. (Did PRR ever show "deadhead" or "equipment" > > >trains to position equipment? Many roads do show these moves in > > >the operating timetables.) Many "could" have been turned -- the > > >first westbound of the day, No. 001 (Get that number! The One- > > >Spot!) arrives at 5.55 a.m., and No. 002 leaves at 6.04; next, 003 > > >comes in at 6.51, and 012 leaves at 7.00. (Hmm, what happened > > >to 002, 004 etc?) But this breaks down later in the day, not all > > >departures seem to follow arrivals. > > > > > >Here's another clue: the interlocking station at Bryn Mawr was only > > >in service 5.30 am to 9.30 am, M-F ex holidays. Could it be that > > >trains turned during these hours, and otherwise proceeded to/from > > >Paoli? Bryn Mawr was the only interlocking between Overbrook > > >and Paoli, by the way. And I'm assuming that there were > > >crossovers at Bryn Mawr to allow commuter trains to reverse, > > >presumably crossing over from Track 4 to Track 1. > > > > > >John Bobsin > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Peters" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Commuter (Bryn Mawr) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 22:42:13 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Correction: The siding was within the interlocking limits at Bryn Mawr #3 switch. This hold out signal on #1 I seem to remember, but various diagrams 1937 do not show it. Of course Rule 261 was put in later on #3 so could have been other changes. Also cab would not drop from approach to rest. if you had the signal until after you passed....................boomer ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Peters" To: "John Cooper" ; ; ; Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2003 10:02 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Commuter (Bryn Mawr) > As related to me by Paoli Engineers, the eastbound #1 "pocket signal was > removed after a near miss or sideswipe when someone ran the signal after > stopping in the station. Everything else you said is correct excepting the > MU siding was interlocked off #1 and with the extended interlocking on #1 a > train order would not be required to go in the siding. Only a few morning > trains went in the clear, none in evening. I have already made the station > stop westbound, pulled clear of the plant , shoved accross to #1 with the > condr. on rear, then changed ends to clear the plant. Also interesting, a > special light on westbound signals would tell helpers to cut off at Bryn > Mawr instead of Paoli. (before radios) Boomer.......engineer on Paoli line > 1973 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Cooper" > To: ; ; > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2003 1:27 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Commuter (Bryn Mawr) > > > > I had always understood the "pocket" to be the sections of main track > right > > along the platform, not the siding. The cantilevered signals at the ends > of > > the platforms allow another train to go 3-4 infront of a westbound at the > > platform. Likewise, a train could go 2-1 in front of an eastbound at the > > platform. Better yet, a following westbound could go 4-3-4 around the > local > > at the platform, and vise-versa for eastbound. > > > > Even though the pocket is neat in concept, I have to believe it was not > > actually as useful as it might seem. In order for a local train to get to > > the station platform while a "stop" is displayed on the cantelivered > signal, > > it would have to have an "approach" indication on the distant signal, and > a > > "slow approach" at the home signal. Thus any approaching local would have > > to run at 30mph for two stations prior to Bryn Mawr. This, along with the > > fact that Overbrook is only 5 miles away (less than 5 minutes run), makes > > its use questionable to me. Probably the greatest operating benefit is > for > > getting around trains that are laying over at Bryn Mawr. > > > > The description of the Bryn Mawr Turn crossing all the way over to 1 and > > then backing into the station is correct. But this has its own operating > > curiousities. Normally if a train were to do this, it would need a train > > order, or some such, to proceed west on 1 beyond the interlocking. > However > > in the case of Bryn Mawr, the distant signal on 1 at Villanova is actually > a > > controlled signal. The operator would set that signal to "stop" allowing > > the Bryn Mawr local to crossover and be protected beyond the interlocking. > > > > When the Bryn Mawr local would crossover, it would get a "restricting" on > > the home signal, and an "approach" at Ardmore. Thus it was limited to > 30mph > > after Ardmore. But because of the cabsignal code change point, it was > > further limited to 15mph for the last half of the way from Haverford to > Bryn > > Mawr. This made the crossover move very time-consuming, not to mention > that > > it blocked all the other tracks. It would be interesting to know why they > > didn't drop the passengers off on the outbound platform, allowing the > train > > to run normal speed on "clear" signals the whole way. It would then take > > more moves instead get over to track 1, but at least they would be a > > deadhead moves rather than revenue, and would seem to tie up the railroad > > less overall. And if the inbound passengers were loaded on the outbound > > platform instead, then it would certainly be quicker overall. > > > > The eastbound cantilevered signal was removed around 1972, the westbound > was > > still there last time I visited. It would be interesting to know why > > someone went to the trouble to remove a single signal and with it the > > operating flexibility. And looking at the operating patterns, why one > would > > remove the eastbound signal and keep the westbound is even more baffling, > > though maybe having bi-directional signaling on track 3 was a factor. > > > > Overbrook also has the same design, though the signals are on masts and > not > > cantilevered. > > > > John > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: ; > > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 2:58 PM > > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Commuter (Bryn Mawr) > > > > > > > Having grown up near Bryn Mawr and watching this operation countless > times > > as a youngster, I can offer some observations. > > > > > > Yes, the 'Bryn Mawr' local only ran during rush hours. Bryn Mawr was a > > full interlocking, allowing 1-4 and 4-1 moves. In addition, as stated in > > another post, there was an MU pocket on the east bound main just west of > the > > platform. Typically, the locals would arrive westbound, crossing over and > > skipping the westbound platforms. The set would then return to the > > eastbound platform to let passengers off. In most cases, the set would > then > > back westbound into the pocket and wait for it's scheduled departure time. > > > > > > The tower at Bryn Mawr, which I had the pleasure to visit numerous > times, > > was a simple affair, and only open from 5:30 to 10:30pm. > > > > > > For what it's worth, a trip to the Bryn Mawr area can still offer the > > visitor some interesting views. There is a sub-station there for the > > catenary. The old 'herring style' brick platforms remain, along with the > > original lamp standards, as they have for many years (at least all were > > still there on my last visit a few years back). In addition, the old > stone > > freight house is still there, but I believe it is now a restaurant. Of > > course, along with the full interlocking, there is also a full set of > > signals protecting the interlocking. The complex makes for a perfect > > 'cross-section' of PRR mainline operations. I always wondered why, with > all > > it's components still in place, not more is mentioned about this > interesting > > stop on the main line. > > > > > > In the day, Bryn Mawr made for a great place to sit and watch trains. > Ah, > > the memories!!! > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > In a message dated 12/23/2003 8:58:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > bobsin@nac.net writes: > > > > > > >Timetable No. 21 (1966) shows lots of trains originating/terminating > > > >at Bryn Mawr, but no indication of movements of equipment for the > > > >scheduled trains. (Did PRR ever show "deadhead" or "equipment" > > > >trains to position equipment? Many roads do show these moves in > > > >the operating timetables.) Many "could" have been turned -- the > > > >first westbound of the day, No. 001 (Get that number! The One- > > > >Spot!) arrives at 5.55 a.m., and No. 002 leaves at 6.04; next, 003 > > > >comes in at 6.51, and 012 leaves at 7.00. (Hmm, what happened > > > >to 002, 004 etc?) But this breaks down later in the day, not all > > > >departures seem to follow arrivals. > > > > > > > >Here's another clue: the interlocking station at Bryn Mawr was only > > > >in service 5.30 am to 9.30 am, M-F ex holidays. Could it be that > > > >trains turned during these hours, and otherwise proceeded to/from > > > >Paoli? Bryn Mawr was the only interlocking between Overbrook > > > >and Paoli, by the way. And I'm assuming that there were > > > >crossovers at Bryn Mawr to allow commuter trains to reverse, > > > >presumably crossing over from Track 4 to Track 1. > > > > > > > >John Bobsin > > > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 07:33:24 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] FP7's out of Cincinnati In a message dated 12/24/03 5:02:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 14:08:28 -0000 > From: "skunkskunk2001" > Subject: Re: Photos posted > > --- In PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com, "catuttle" wrote: > > I've put some photos in the group photo files. Look for the > album "Mostly Winchester Ind" I'll dig in the archives and see if I > can find others that may be of interest to the group. > > Chuck: > > I take it the photos at Winchester, Indiana would be on the Pennsy > line from Adams to Cincinatti? What's the date? I'm familiar with the > GR&I further north that some of these trains ran over but we never > had six axle power other than the E units on passsenger trains in the > 50's. Your photo of the "covered wagon" reminded me of the PRR FP-7's > in this neck of the woods. We had other F units but the Pennsy FP-7's > continued to haunt the GR&I into the Penn Central era. A > knowledgeable railfan once said that in the Penn Central era, the > GR&I hosted the largest fleet of FP-7's anywhere. I have a super 8 > movie of a pair on GR-1 switching the interchange at Wolcottville > August 1972. The first unit was still in PRR garb. We had more than > a few GP-9's too but I really liked those FP-7's with their > passenger pilots. We would usually have three units on through > freights and in the early 70's it wasn't uncommon to have a set with > an F-7B in the middle but later A-A-A got to be a common arrangement > and also a GE U boats or geeps mixed in. > > Victor Baird > Fort Wayne, Indiana > Victor, I'm glad to have you repeat your comments about the FP7 concentration on the "GR&I" route north from Cincinnati, through Richmond IN, through Winchester and Decatur to Fort Wayne and beyond. At least one individual has intimated to me that this was not true, and that I must have made it up. Of course, in the past year I've also been looking at an interesting number of photos of freight and passenger on that route, showing FP7 as power. Look for these photos in the Spring Keystone. Incidentally, the last time I saw an ex-PRR FP7 in Cincinnati it was sandwiched between an ex-PRR F7 and an ex-NYC F7, and was in the departure yard at Sharonville (ex-NYC hump yard). I was there by random chance, but in minutes there were 22 railfans down there, shooting pictures like mad. Logic says these covered wagons were actually running out their final miles for Conrail out of Collinwood (NYC Cleveland), but it was still nice to see a "4300" (their PC/CR road numbers) once more in Cincy. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 07:33:24 EST Subject: [PRR] FP7's out of Cincinnati In a message dated 12/24/03 5:02:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 14:08:28 -0000 > From: "skunkskunk2001" > Subject: Re: Photos posted > > --- In PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com, "catuttle" wrote: > > I've put some photos in the group photo files. Look for the > album "Mostly Winchester Ind" I'll dig in the archives and see if I > can find others that may be of interest to the group. > > Chuck: > > I take it the photos at Winchester, Indiana would be on the Pennsy > line from Adams to Cincinatti? What's the date? I'm familiar with the > GR&I further north that some of these trains ran over but we never > had six axle power other than the E units on passsenger trains in the > 50's. Your photo of the "covered wagon" reminded me of the PRR FP-7's > in this neck of the woods. We had other F units but the Pennsy FP-7's > continued to haunt the GR&I into the Penn Central era. A > knowledgeable railfan once said that in the Penn Central era, the > GR&I hosted the largest fleet of FP-7's anywhere. I have a super 8 > movie of a pair on GR-1 switching the interchange at Wolcottville > August 1972. The first unit was still in PRR garb. We had more than > a few GP-9's too but I really liked those FP-7's with their > passenger pilots. We would usually have three units on through > freights and in the early 70's it wasn't uncommon to have a set with > an F-7B in the middle but later A-A-A got to be a common arrangement > and also a GE U boats or geeps mixed in. > > Victor Baird > Fort Wayne, Indiana > Victor, I'm glad to have you repeat your comments about the FP7 concentration on the "GR&I" route north from Cincinnati, through Richmond IN, through Winchester and Decatur to Fort Wayne and beyond. At least one individual has intimated to me that this was not true, and that I must have made it up. Of course, in the past year I've also been looking at an interesting number of photos of freight and passenger on that route, showing FP7 as power. Look for these photos in the Spring Keystone. Incidentally, the last time I saw an ex-PRR FP7 in Cincinnati it was sandwiched between an ex-PRR F7 and an ex-NYC F7, and was in the departure yard at Sharonville (ex-NYC hump yard). I was there by random chance, but in minutes there were 22 railfans down there, shooting pictures like mad. Logic says these covered wagons were actually running out their final miles for Conrail out of Collinwood (NYC Cleveland), but it was still nice to see a "4300" (their PC/CR road numbers) once more in Cincy. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West --part1_78.4d5621f8.2d1d8494_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 12/24/03 5:02:07= PM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes:

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 14:08:28 -0000
From: "skunkskunk2001" <fwj@mail.fwi.com>
Subject: Re: Photos posted

--- In PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com, "catuttle" <catuttle@i...> wrote: > I've put some photos in the group photo files. Look for the
album "Mostly Winchester Ind" I'll dig in the archives and see if I can find others that may be of interest to the group.

Chuck:

I take it the photos at Winchester, Indiana would be on the Pennsy
line from Adams to Cincinatti? What's the date? I'm familiar with the
GR&I further north that some of these trains ran over but we never
had six axle power other than the E units on passsenger trains in the
50's. Your photo of the "covered wagon" reminded me of the PRR FP-7's
in this neck of the woods. We had other F units but the Pennsy FP-7's
continued to haunt the GR&I into the Penn Central era. A
knowledgeable railfan once said that in the Penn Central era, the
GR&I hosted the largest fleet of FP-7's anywhere. I have a super 8
movie of a pair on GR-1 switching the interchange at Wolcottville
August 1972. The first unit was still in PRR garb. We had more than
a few GP-9's too but I really liked those FP-7's with their
passenger pilots. We would usually have three units on through
freights and in the early 70's it wasn't uncommon to have a set with
an F-7B in the middle but later A-A-A got to be a common arrangement
and also a GE U boats or geeps mixed in.

Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana

Victor,

I'm glad to have you repeat your comments about the FP7 concentration on the= "GR&I" route north from Cincinnati, through Richmond IN, through Winche= ster and Decatur to Fort Wayne and beyond. At least one individual has= intimated to me that this was not true, and that I must have made it up.&nb= sp; Of course, in the past year I've also been looking at an interesting num= ber of photos of freight and passenger on that route, showing FP7 as power.&= nbsp; Look for these photos in the Spring Keystone.

Incidentally, the last time I saw an ex-PRR FP7 in Cincinnati it was sandwic= hed between an ex-PRR F7 and an ex-NYC F7, and was in the departure yard at=20= Sharonville (ex-NYC hump yard). I was there by random chance, but in m= inutes there were 22 railfans down there, shooting pictures like mad. =20= Logic says these covered wagons were actually running out their final miles=20= for Conrail out of Collinwood (NYC Cleveland), but it was still nice to see=20= a "4300" (their PC/CR road numbers) once more in Cincy.

           &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO
(Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968)
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   And Remembering PRR Lines West
--part1_78.4d5621f8.2d1d8494_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] R50b handrail holes Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 14:06:18 +0000 From: "Keith Burkey" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: Bedford Pa. line Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 11:32:01 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <80719.3281426531@dialup-67.74.238.236.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I just realized that I replied directly to Mike and not to the email list when I sent my response. Allow me to tack the following information onto the discussion for, um, posterities sake. ;-) ------ Under Penn Central and Conrail (and probably the Pennsy), the Bedford line was let deteriorate. I know it follows Dunnings Creek very closely in some areas and I'm sure the flooding due to Agnes was, at least, partly responsible for the situtation. When Conrail started rationalizing their lines in the late 70s, the network of branches radiating out of Duncansville was an easy target. This included the Hollidaysburg & Petersburg, New Portage Secondary, Cove Secondary (south of Roaring Spring/Hammermill Paper) and the Bedford Secondary. There was a ton of political wrangling to try to keep the lines in operation. The premise was that Bedford had to have rail access for their manufacturing base. Included in the negotiations was suggestions that the Everett would purchase the line from Mt. Dallas up through to Brooks Mills. The then-owner of the line, Howard Hinish, at one point stated that it would be cheaper to rebuild the scrapped line from Bedford to Hyndman than to rebuild the deteriorated line from Bedford to Brooks Mills. By this point, the Everett was down to running on an as-needed basis anyways. There was no way they'd have had the capital to afford the purchase and rebuild. Finally, in a sequence of events that I'm not sure of the order and dates of, the following occurred to bring us to today's state: 1) The Everett shut down and was sold to Alan Maples of Maryland. 2) The Bedford Secondary was abandoned and sold for scrap. 3) The Bedford line was scrapped, leaving the Everett's equipment isolated in Everett (essentially just their 80-Ton GE). 4) Alan Maples purchased the Brooks Mills to Sproul portion of the Bedford Secondary and started the Everett back up in 1983 or 1984 after moving the 80-Ton by truck from Everett to Claysburg. 5) The Roaring Spring to Curryville portion of the Cove Secondary was sold to the Morrison's Cove Railroad (owned by a group of Martinsburg-area shippers) 6) The Allegheny Southern was designated the contract operator of the Morrision's Cove Railroad (1982 or 1983). 7) The Everett took over the operations of the Morrisons Cove RR (1985). 8) The Everett purchased the remainder of the Cove Secondary from Roaring Spring to Hollidaysburg and established an office at Duncansville (early-90s). ------ Keith www.bbandbrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Peters" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Commuter (Bryn Mawr) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 10:22:37 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: OK I finally got this correct after looking at Bryn Mawr diagram You could not cross over 4 or 3 or 2 without making reverse to get into siding boomer ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Cooper" To: ; ; Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2003 1:27 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Commuter (Bryn Mawr) > I had always understood the "pocket" to be the sections of main track right > along the platform, not the siding. The cantilevered signals at the ends of > the platforms allow another train to go 3-4 infront of a westbound at the > platform. Likewise, a train could go 2-1 in front of an eastbound at the > platform. Better yet, a following westbound could go 4-3-4 around the local > at the platform, and vise-versa for eastbound. > > Even though the pocket is neat in concept, I have to believe it was not > actually as useful as it might seem. In order for a local train to get to > the station platform while a "stop" is displayed on the cantelivered signal, > it would have to have an "approach" indication on the distant signal, and a > "slow approach" at the home signal. Thus any approaching local would have > to run at 30mph for two stations prior to Bryn Mawr. This, along with the > fact that Overbrook is only 5 miles away (less than 5 minutes run), makes > its use questionable to me. Probably the greatest operating benefit is for > getting around trains that are laying over at Bryn Mawr. > > The description of the Bryn Mawr Turn crossing all the way over to 1 and > then backing into the station is correct. But this has its own operating > curiousities. Normally if a train were to do this, it would need a train > order, or some such, to proceed west on 1 beyond the interlocking. However > in the case of Bryn Mawr, the distant signal on 1 at Villanova is actually a > controlled signal. The operator would set that signal to "stop" allowing > the Bryn Mawr local to crossover and be protected beyond the interlocking. > > When the Bryn Mawr local would crossover, it would get a "restricting" on > the home signal, and an "approach" at Ardmore. Thus it was limited to 30mph > after Ardmore. But because of the cabsignal code change point, it was > further limited to 15mph for the last half of the way from Haverford to Bryn > Mawr. This made the crossover move very time-consuming, not to mention that > it blocked all the other tracks. It would be interesting to know why they > didn't drop the passengers off on the outbound platform, allowing the train > to run normal speed on "clear" signals the whole way. It would then take > more moves instead get over to track 1, but at least they would be a > deadhead moves rather than revenue, and would seem to tie up the railroad > less overall. And if the inbound passengers were loaded on the outbound > platform instead, then it would certainly be quicker overall. > > The eastbound cantilevered signal was removed around 1972, the westbound was > still there last time I visited. It would be interesting to know why > someone went to the trouble to remove a single signal and with it the > operating flexibility. And looking at the operating patterns, why one would > remove the eastbound signal and keep the westbound is even more baffling, > though maybe having bi-directional signaling on track 3 was a factor. > > Overbrook also has the same design, though the signals are on masts and not > cantilevered. > > John > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ; > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 2:58 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Commuter (Bryn Mawr) > > > > Having grown up near Bryn Mawr and watching this operation countless times > as a youngster, I can offer some observations. > > > > Yes, the 'Bryn Mawr' local only ran during rush hours. Bryn Mawr was a > full interlocking, allowing 1-4 and 4-1 moves. In addition, as stated in > another post, there was an MU pocket on the east bound main just west of the > platform. Typically, the locals would arrive westbound, crossing over and > skipping the westbound platforms. The set would then return to the > eastbound platform to let passengers off. In most cases, the set would then > back westbound into the pocket and wait for it's scheduled departure time. > > > > The tower at Bryn Mawr, which I had the pleasure to visit numerous times, > was a simple affair, and only open from 5:30 to 10:30pm. > > > > For what it's worth, a trip to the Bryn Mawr area can still offer the > visitor some interesting views. There is a sub-station there for the > catenary. The old 'herring style' brick platforms remain, along with the > original lamp standards, as they have for many years (at least all were > still there on my last visit a few years back). In addition, the old stone > freight house is still there, but I believe it is now a restaurant. Of > course, along with the full interlocking, there is also a full set of > signals protecting the interlocking. The complex makes for a perfect > 'cross-section' of PRR mainline operations. I always wondered why, with all > it's components still in place, not more is mentioned about this interesting > stop on the main line. > > > > In the day, Bryn Mawr made for a great place to sit and watch trains. Ah, > the memories!!! > > > > Mark > > > > In a message dated 12/23/2003 8:58:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, > bobsin@nac.net writes: > > > > >Timetable No. 21 (1966) shows lots of trains originating/terminating > > >at Bryn Mawr, but no indication of movements of equipment for the > > >scheduled trains. (Did PRR ever show "deadhead" or "equipment" > > >trains to position equipment? Many roads do show these moves in > > >the operating timetables.) Many "could" have been turned -- the > > >first westbound of the day, No. 001 (Get that number! The One- > > >Spot!) arrives at 5.55 a.m., and No. 002 leaves at 6.04; next, 003 > > >comes in at 6.51, and 012 leaves at 7.00. (Hmm, what happened > > >to 002, 004 etc?) But this breaks down later in the day, not all > > >departures seem to follow arrivals. > > > > > >Here's another clue: the interlocking station at Bryn Mawr was only > > >in service 5.30 am to 9.30 am, M-F ex holidays. Could it be that > > >trains turned during these hours, and otherwise proceeded to/from > > >Paoli? Bryn Mawr was the only interlocking between Overbrook > > >and Paoli, by the way. And I'm assuming that there were > > >crossovers at Bryn Mawr to allow commuter trains to reverse, > > >presumably crossing over from Track 4 to Track 1. > > > > > >John Bobsin > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] R50b handrail holes Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 09:53:01 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Norm wrote-- > > Now that I have broken two #80 drills in the first four holes how are others > drilling the holes? I even lubed the drill bits before I began and still > broke them. > Try a slightly larger bit, #78, 77, or even 76. Although the holes will be slightly oversize, the "extra" clearance is difficult to see. If you use gap filing CA to secure the parts, it will completely fill the holes. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 12:36:01 -0600 From: gpierson@trnty.edu Subject: [PRR] MDC Yellow Kid cars User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.0 Return-Path: gpierson@trnty.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Dec 2003 18:30:19.0125 (UTC) FILETIME=[508F4250:01C3CBDE] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hello, all, Has anyone seen the Yellow Kid-painted cars offered by MDC? What do you think of them? I'm sure they do not match the prototype in many ways but given the non-availability of the Westerfield kits, they might be a decent stand-in. However, at the list price they're asking, I'd like some feed-back before I place an order. Your thoughts? George Pierson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <5C24D94C-37D5-11D8-95D4-000A9570A806@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] What Did You Get? Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 13:57:32 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Santa bring anyone train goodies? I got the Cedco color PRR calendar for 2004 and also the "Great Model Railroads" video on Chuck Hitchcock's Argentine Division of the Santa Fe. His approach to passenger ops is very similar to what I plan to implement. I had also gotten myself a dozen of the new Fruit Growers Express wood reefers from InterMountain. It occurred to me that modelers with young railroaders in the house who are just starting to read -- like Bruce Smith -- ought to consider the perfect gift to bring these kids up right: the 1951 Book of Rules!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PGrace" Subject: Re: [PRR] What Did You Get? Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 19:58:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Spam-Processed: aspects.net, Fri, 26 Dec 2003 20:01:16 +0000 (not processed: spam filter disabled) X-MDRemoteIP: 194.164.118.182 X-Return-Path: pgrace@aspects.net X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Reply-To: pgrace@aspects.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: All I managed to get was the Cedco Calender Patrick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry @ Pennsy" To: "PRR-talk" Sent: Friday, December 26, 2003 6:57 PM Subject: [PRR] What Did You Get? > Santa bring anyone train goodies? > > I got the Cedco color PRR calendar for 2004 and also the "Great Model > Railroads" video on Chuck Hitchcock's Argentine Division of the Santa > Fe. His approach to passenger ops is very similar to what I plan to > implement. > > I had also gotten myself a dozen of the new Fruit Growers Express wood > reefers from InterMountain. > > It occurred to me that modelers with young railroaders in the house who > are just starting to read -- like Bruce Smith -- ought to consider the > perfect gift to bring these kids up right: the 1951 Book of Rules!!! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 14:10:09 -0600 From: Randy Subject: Re: [PRR] What Did You Get? From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 15:23:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] What Did You Get? MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I got a box of PRR 8x10 photos. All Pittsburgh Division 1947-48. And a 1940 Car Builders' Cyclopedia. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 15:14:15 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [PRR] What Did You Get? From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: > Santa bring anyone train goodies? > It occurred to me that modelers with young railroaders in the house who > are just starting to read -- like Bruce Smith -- ought to consider the > perfect gift to bring these kids up right: the 1951 Book of Rules!!! Brianna's 2.5 yr old cousin Annie learns fast too...when running grandma's garish Holiday Express, she said she was in charge. I asked if she was the engineer or the conductor, and she said "the conductor"! Good girl! Santa brought Brianna a 1937 AAR boxcar in NH script lettering (HO Scale Yardmaster kit by Branchline)...PERFECT for a first kit. In fact, she may have it done and weathered by the Cocoa Beach meet (Jan 8-11). She also managed a kodak 6000 digital camera from Santa, for better railfan photos... I got an NWSL True Sander from Brianna and Tami, which will help square up those resin kit car sides for PRRPRO projects, and my present to myself, the BLI T1 is on the way...I also got a 30,000 BTU gas burner which nearly completes my "all grain" beer brewing setup. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 15:41:48 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser B6sb arrival From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Dick writes: I am a bit perturbed by the number of criticisms regarding > Bowser's locomotives. Dick, If the criticisms are personal und not backed by fact, then I agree. On the other hand, I think that you should be damn glad that there are folks out there who will call it what it is. Thats the reason you're getting better and and beter models. Thus, I think it is perfectly valid to point out that the rivet size on the B6sb cab and tender do not match, or as I was about to do in reply to review, to note that the tender wheels are not blackened, while the loco wheels and rods are. Issue like these later ones are concerning to me, because they indicate that at the very highest levels, Bowser does not "get it". Is this of consequence to you? Sure it is. For two reasons: First, when a product is not done correctly, it can damage both the sales of that product and the chance to bring a correct product to market. The original manufacturer is tempted to say that there is no market, when in fact the market has been diluted or softened by poor marketing decisions (for example, only one number in each scheme on the BLI GG1...and they wondered why reservations were soft?) Second, when looking to bring a new product to fruition, I want to go with a maufacturer that I know CARES about "getting it right". It is for good reason that several new PRR projects may go other places. As for your coments about price...a Bowser loco, plus details, plus a sound system is pretty durn close to the price of a BLI loco. For some, including myslef, the pleasure of actually building the model is a deciding factor, however, I always have enough projects, so I have to ask myself why I should pay that much for details that are not correct...especially when correct details would not cost any extra (well, OK, tooling a new tender would...) So, I'm sorry you're not happy with it, but I will continue to point out where ANY product differs from the prototype, so as to allow the consumer to make an informed and educated decision. Isn't it better to be free to patronize Bowser KNOWING what you are buying...or is it that in not knowing, you can ignore the faults, but like me, once you know, it is hard to ignore them? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: "PRR-talk" From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] What Did You Get? Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:03:14 -0500 To: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Dec 26, 2003, at 4:14 PM, smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu wrote: > Brianna's 2.5 yr old cousin Annie learns fast too...when running > grandma's > garish Holiday Express, she said she was in charge. I asked if she was > the engineer or the conductor, and she said "the conductor"! Good > girl! I'm a regular on Bob Martin's layout in Emigsville, Pa. Two weeks ago he had an open house for some scout troops and allowed my son Andrew to assist me in running trains for ambiance purposes. Bob had never seen Andrew run before, and all came away impressed with his prototypic running skills and use of Soundtraxx. Later I was running a train and a visitor had leaned against the fascia (we think) and sent me into a hidden reverse loop. Oooops! I had to back it out. Near the end of my move I was backing through the visible yard. My son scolded me for not having my bell ringing....good boy!!!! I need to start working with him on radio protocol now and then he'll be ready for op sessions! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:29:04 -0500 From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." Subject: [PRR] Re: R50b handrail holes Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: > From: > Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 14:06:18 +0000 > > Now that I have broken two #80 drills in the first four holes how are > others drilling the holes? I even lubed the drill bits before I began > and still broke them. > From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" > Try a slightly larger bit, #78, 77, or even 76. Although the holes will > be slightly oversize, the "extra" clearance is difficult to see. If you > use gap filing CA to secure the parts, it will completely fill the holes. I always go one size up from "the advertised." I broke two #79 bits as well, but the second break was on the last hole. Both breaks came in holes at the corners, which has always been a problem spot for my tiny bits in the past. So you might be a little heavy handed on the pin vise, Norm. The #79 hole gives just the right amount of "slop" to make a nice fit with very light pressure on the tweezers. You will also have interference problems with the lower grabs at the corners of the car body because the holes are only sightly off-set, if at all. Happy model railroading (yeah, right), Vagel Keller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 18:52:31 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser B6sb arrival X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,11-19 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: aurora7@juno.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bruce: Please continue to accentuate the positive and constructively comment on the negative. I merely wanted to point out that Bowser, and Penn-Line prior to them, has been the only source for reasonably accurate Pennsy steam. I would never advocate praising a product that proclaimed itself to be what it is not. On the other hand, Bowser has provided us with pretty fair representations of the PRR steam family. I hate to see a company knocked down when they have been the PRR model flagship for so long. With all that out of the way, let us hope that your constructive comments strengthen Bowser's modeling efforts, and encourages them to produce additional steam models for our renditions of Horseshoe Curve and Jamaica Station. Dick Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "There are no stupid questions, but there are many inquisitive idiots." ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 20:26:19 EST Subject: [PRR] R50b Handrail holes Slightly enlarge the dimples with the point of a pin or sewing needle to give the bit a better start. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1072488379 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

Slightly enlarge the dimples with the point of a=20= pin or sewing needle to give the bit a better start.

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ

-------------------------------1072488379-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:10:16 -0500 From: Steve Sharpe Subject: Re: [PRR] What Did You Get? Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: At 1:57 PM -0500 12/26/03, Jerry @ Pennsy wrote: >Santa bring anyone train goodies? Nothing train related, but my Spectrum K4 derailed and hit the concrete floor of my basement rather hard. It is now on my work bench...in three pieces and with bent and broken valve gear. Anyone recommend a decent looking, decent running replacement? How do the latest K4s from Bachmann run and how much can they pull? (Mine is eight years old, I think). Anything reasonably priced in used brass? -- Steve sbs@milestone-media.com � ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill" Subject: Re: [PRR] What Did You Get? Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 07:08:47 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I got a BLI GG1!!! now i have to learn how to do the cat. Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 08:40:15 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] What Did You Get? I got STARTED on a new layout in S scale. No more empty, reproachful basement for me. I even put our Christmas visitors to work on benchwork. This is a small layout designed to get done, with opportunities for mainline running to debug rolling stock, and lots of switrching. Lee Rainey --part1_6c.3607348f.2d1ee5bf_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" I got STARTED on a new layout in S=20= scale. No more empty, reproachful basement for me. I even put our Christmas=20= visitors to work on benchwork.

This is a small layout designed to get done, with opportunities for mainline= running to debug rolling stock, and lots of switrching.

Lee Rainey --part1_6c.3607348f.2d1ee5bf_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 09:07:28 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] What Did You Get? From: Alex Charyna In-Reply-To: <5C24D94C-37D5-11D8-95D4-000A9570A806@pennsyrr.com> Message-Id: <62DEC30B-387E-11D8-95AE-000393C92AF2@arclyte.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Another BLI GGI, the silver with red stripe #4866.... The GG1 fleet now stands at 6! Only 132 to go! :) -alex On Friday, December 26, 2003, at 12:57 PM, Jerry @ Pennsy wrote: > Santa bring anyone train goodies? > > I got the Cedco color PRR calendar for 2004 and also the "Great Model > Railroads" video on Chuck Hitchcock's Argentine Division of the Santa > Fe. His approach to passenger ops is very similar to what I plan to > implement. > > I had also gotten myself a dozen of the new Fruit Growers Express wood > reefers from InterMountain. > > It occurred to me that modelers with young railroaders in the house > who are just starting to read -- like Bruce Smith -- ought to consider > the perfect gift to bring these kids up right: the 1951 Book of > Rules!!! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] New Hope & Ivyland RS3 Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 11:41:46 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, Can anyone confirm if the New Hope & Ivyland RS3 was ex-PRR? I have seen a slide taken on 7-26-98 where is looks like the carbody corners were notched for the large numberboards. Is it still on the property? Have the large numberboards been replaced? Please reply to billlane@comcast.net Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 17:44:24 GMT Subject: [PRR] PRR 2-8-0 Engine From: Dominic Mazoch From: "Bill Lane" Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 11:41:46 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] New Hope & Ivyland RS3 Hi All, Can anyone confirm if the New Hope & Ivyland RS3 was ex-PRR? I have seen a slide taken on 7-26-98 where is looks like the carbody corners were notched for the large numberboards. Is it still on the property? Have the large numberboards been replaced? Please reply to billlane@comcast.net Thanks Bill "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Cprrboss@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 13:19:54 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 12/27/03 by Bob Martin Re: [PRR] What Did You Get? by "Jerry @ Pennsy" Re: Jerry's tale of whoa operating the CPRR a few weeks ago. He's right, Andrew did a super job. In fact, I believe the consensus was that he did better than Dad! Dad's story is that "somebody" leaned against the fascia and "accidentally" pushed a button that bent the iron and detoured his train into a hidden reverse loop. HA! Now, gents, I ask you, if Dad would have been paying attention, as son Andrew had been doing all afternoon, would that have happened??? And, of course, Dad didn't tell you the rest of the story. For example, the really great puzzling look on his face before he screamed "I CAN'T FIND MY TRAIN, WHO TOOK MY TRAIN, I LOST MY TRAIN". Eventually, after the rest of us finished rolling on the floor laughing, cooler heads prevailed, Jerry took an aspirin, Andrew took the throttle (after Dad failed to energize the bell), and all was tranquil on the CPRR again. Of course, the other operators couldn't leave it alone and Jerry took some jibes at the op session a week later and, I expect will be the brunt of some more, very embellished, stories in months to come. That's my story and I'm sticking to it! Happy New Year to all from the CPRR. BOB MARTIN, President & Superintendent Central Pennsylvania Railroad (CPRR) (HO Scale) A Penn Family Line 45 W. Locust Lane, York, PA 17402 cprrboss@aol.com 717-848-3640 --part1_77.1f67bf4f.2d1f274a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

Re: [PRR] What Did You Get?
by "Jerry @ Penns= y" <jerry@pennsyrr.com>

Re: Jerry's tale of whoa operating the CPRR a few weeks ago. = ;He's right, Andrew did a super job. In fact, I believe the consensus=20= was that he did better than Dad! Dad's story is that "somebody" leaned= against the fascia and "accidentally" pushed a button that bent the iron an= d detoured his train into a hidden reverse loop. HA! Now, gents,= I ask you, if Dad would have been paying attention, as son Andrew had been=20= doing all afternoon, would that have happened??? And, of course, Dad d= idn't tell you the rest of the story. For example, the really great pu= zzling look on his face before he screamed "I CAN'T FIND MY TRAIN, WHO TOOK=20= MY TRAIN, I LOST MY TRAIN". Eventually, after the rest of us finished=20= rolling on the floor laughing, cooler heads prevailed, Jerry took an aspirin= , Andrew took the throttle (after Dad failed to energize the bell), and all=20= was tranquil on the CPRR again. Of course, the other operators couldn'= t leave it alone and Jerry took some jibes at the op session a week later an= d, I expect will be the brunt of some more, very embellished, stories in mon= ths to come. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Happy New Year to all from the CPRR.

BOB MARTIN, President & Superintendent
Central Pennsylvania Railroad (CPRR) (HO Scale<= /FONT>= )
A Penn Family Line
45 W. Locust Lane, York, PA 17402
cprrboss@aol.com 717-848-3640
--part1_77.1f67bf4f.2d1f274a_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] What Did You Get? Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 14:42:03 -0500 Jerry wrote: "Santa bring anyone train goodies?" Well......I got a lump of coal....which I conveniently crushed and used = to fill my Bowser H21's. :-P Seriously, with the release of the P85 coaches this past month, the = pending release of the BLI T-1's and next months scheduled release of = the BLI M-1's, I have bought a lot of Christmas presents for myself!=20 Ted ------=_NextPart_000_05D3_01C3CC87.97C00160 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Jerry wrote: "Santa bring anyone train=20 goodies?"

Well......I got a lump of coal....which I = conveniently=20 crushed and used to fill my Bowser H21's. :-P

Seriously, with the release of the P85 coaches this past = month, the=20 pending release of the BLI T-1's and next months scheduled = release of=20 the BLI M-1's, I have bought a lot of Christmas presents for = myself!=20

Ted

------=_NextPart_000_05D3_01C3CC87.97C00160-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:23:22 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: [PRR] MU-equipped PRR Baldwin shifters Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Vagel C. Keller, Jr. wrote: > weight restrictions on the old through-truss bridge at State Line Jct. > over Wills Creek in the Cumberland Narrows led the PRR to purchase a > set of m.u.'d Baldwin shifters (called "Ike and Mike") especially for > the Altoona - Cumberland turn. I do not know if these units survived > the PC merger. As I understand things, these were the only m.u.'d > Baldwin shifters on the PRR roster ... but someone check me on that. Greetings to Vagel, Jerry and the List: In fact, 51 PRR Baldwin shifters were equipped with MU. These were: -- Three DS-4-4-750s. All three were built in 1950 without MU and later retrofitted. They were 5595 and 5597, built in 1950 and retrofitted with MU in 1951 (these units were regularly assigned to the Bedford line) and 5600 (retrofitted with MU in 1963). -- Sixteen DS-4-4-1000s, as follows: 9429-9434 as built (others of the class were retrofitted -- 5978-5979, 9180-9183, and 9258-9261). In the mid-1960s, PRR assigned the 9429-9430 to the Milroy Branch out of Lewistown. -- and 32 S-12s (8732-8752 and 8765-8775). Many of these were equipped with trainphone and used in local service on the main line in the Wilmington and Philadelphia areas. In addition, seven of PRR's eight RS-12s were MU-equipped (8105-8110 and 8776). Most of above info from Hahn/Withers Volume 2 -- note: photo of 5595-5597 MU'd on Bedford local on p. 80 of that book. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:36:34 -0500 From: RamblingReck Subject: Re: [PRR] What Did You Get? Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: At 1:57 PM -0500 12/26/03, Jerry @ Pennsy wrote: >Santa bring anyone train goodies? I got Triumph VI and the Carlton Pennsy Diesel Review. I was a little disappopinted in the lack of pictures from the Claymont, DE - Marcus Hook, PA. area. There were some, including some aerial shots, but I was hoping for more, especially in relation to some of the more obscure locations like Trainer that no longer have stations. John Ryan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:36:44 -0500 From: RamblingReck Subject: Re: [PRR] What Did You Get? Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: At 1:57 PM -0500 12/26/03, Jerry @ Pennsy wrote: >Santa bring anyone train goodies? I got Triumph VI and the Carlton Pennsy Diesel Review. I was a little disappopinted in the lack of pictures from the Claymont, DE - Marcus Hook, PA. area. There were some, including some aerial shots, but I was hoping for more, especially in relation to some of the more obscure locations like Trainer that no longer have stations. John Ryan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 17:56:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] New PRR Lines West Book. MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Happy Holidays... I just saw an ad in the lastest TRP Magazine for the new book,"PRR Lines West: Pittsburgh to St. Louis". The book will be available in early 2004. According to the ad, the book sells for $59.95. The website link is: www.alco628.com Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] MDC Yellow Kid cars Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 20:25:48 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: George Pierson asked: "Has anyone seen the Yellow Kid-painted cars offered by MDC? What do you think of them? I'm sure they do not match the prototype in many ways but given the non-availability of the Westerfield kits, they might be a decent stand-in. However, at the list price they're asking, I'd like some feed-back before I place an order. Your thoughts?" The paint and lettering are very nicely done, and aside from the Westerfield cars, the MDC palace cars are the only game in town for the early 20th century "splinter fleet." My main concern about these cars is operation. On the NEB&W, we use the sleepers to represent commuter coaches used by the D&H in Albany-Saratoga service. (We keep the side with the two small oval windows towards the backdrop.) We encountered two problems with these cars: - The coupling distance between cars is HUGE. Fixing this makes these cars look a lot better if your curves will allow it. - The cars roll poorly. I'd welcome any tried-and-true suggestions to fix this. The bottom line is whether or not avoiding hunting down the decals and painting the Yellow Kid scheme yourself is worth $49.95 per car. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 12/27/03 by Bob Martin Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:07:56 -0500 To: Cprrboss@aol.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Dec 27, 2003, at 1:19 PM, Cprrboss@aol.com wrote: > Re: =A0Jerry's tale of whoa operating the CPRR a few weeks ago. =A0He's=20= > right, Andrew did a super job. =A0In fact, I believe the consensus was=20= > that he did better than Dad! =A0Dad's story is that "somebody" leaned=20= > against the fascia and "accidentally" pushed a button that bent the=20 > iron and detoured his train into a hidden reverse loop. =A0HA! =A0Now,=20= > gents, I ask you, if Dad would have been paying attention, as son=20 > Andrew had been doing all afternoon, would that have happened??? =A0And,= =20 > of course, Dad didn't tell you the rest of the story. =A0For example,=20= > the really great puzzling look on his face before he screamed "I CAN'T=20= > FIND MY TRAIN, WHO TOOK MY TRAIN, I LOST MY TRAIN". =A0Eventually, = after=20 > the rest of us finished rolling on the floor laughing, cooler heads=20 > prevailed, Jerry took an aspirin, Andrew took the throttle (after Dad=20= > failed to energize the bell), and all was tranquil on the CPRR again.=20= > =A0Of course, the other operators couldn't leave it alone and Jerry = took=20 > some jibes at the op session a week later and, I expect will be the=20 > brunt of some more, very embellished, stories in months to come.=20 > =A0That's my story and I'm sticking to it! Ahhhh, I think it was a set up! Instead of following trains as we=20 normally do during on op session, Bob purposely had us stand at one end=20= of the room and monitor the entire trains progress from that location.=20= The disappearance conveniently occurred at the far end of a peninsula=20 where the train was conveniently out of sight for 8-10 feet. That's MY=20= story and I'm stickin' to it! Of course, Bob is prez of the CPRR, so his story pulls rank! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 03:39:39 EST Subject: [PRR] Reply from Union Pacific about licensing Model Railroad Brenda and all, We shippers, modelers as well as stock holders see this as taxation without proper representation... You are not capable of producing anything only extracting... It mirrors your current money hungry gouging just as the current fuel surcharge of at last 2% based on West Texas crude, that is adjustable to the shipper and the recent announcement of yet another 4% rate increase due at the end of February. Perhaps you think that the Model Railroad industry will calmly sit back and be force fed by your company. As I have said in the past and continue to stand ... You must use your marks in daily business to enforce them. Your company has not painted one piece of equipment in your predecessors marks since you engulf them. You are being challenged with your position and will continue to do so. The MEDIA, the Stockholders, and the INTERNET see this current practice as nothing but selfish corporate GREED. We continue to see the UNION PACIFIC's current advertising as "BUILDING OUR AMERICA ON THE BACKS OF SMALL BUSINESS." If you see 3% as pennies, we see it as an unnecessary evil taxation that other Railroads see unnecessary. Others have tread were you are leading your company and they have backed away... Let that be a lesson to the Union Pacific... AKA Unlimited Parking to your shippers... For the record... Brenda Mainwaring only approached one member of MRIA with idea of a flat percentage and it was NEVER ratified by their board of directors and will not be. > Thank you for sharing your concerns about Union Pacific's licensing > program. Union Pacific announced a formal licensing program in 2002. The program for > the model railroad industry was developed in consultation with the Model > Railroad Industry Association. Rates for model railroad manufacturers are > extremely low and small businesses are generally exempt from royalty payments. > Media reports and Internet chatter have inaccurately portrayed the royalty > fees. On a $10 model, royalty rates are pennies. You can find additional > information about our licensing program > on our Web site at http://www.uprr.com/newsinfo/modelrail.shtml. --part1_b2.26905d2f.2d1ff0cb_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Brenda and all,

We shippers, modelers as well as stock holders see this as taxation without=20= proper representation... You are not capable of producing anything only extr= acting... It mirrors your current money hungry gouging just as the cur= rent fuel surcharge of at last 2% based on West Texas crude, that is adjusta= ble to the shipper and the recent announcement of yet another 4% rate increa= se due at the end of February. Perhaps you think that the Model Railro= ad industry will calmly sit back and be force fed by your company. As I have= said in the past and continue to stand ... You must use your marks in daily= business to enforce them. Your company has not painted one piece of equipme= nt in your predecessors marks since you engulf them. You are being challenge= d with your position and will continue to do so. The MEDIA, the Stockholders= , and the INTERNET see this current practice as nothing but selfish corporat= e GREED. We continue to see the UNION PACIFIC's current advertising as "BUIL= DING OUR AMERICA ON THE BACKS OF SMALL BUSINESS." If you see 3% as pen= nies, we see it as an unnecessary evil taxation that other Railroads see unn= ecessary. Others have tread were you are leading your company and they have=20= backed away... Let that be a lesson to the Union Pacific... AKA Unlimited Pa= rking to your shippers...

For the record... Brenda Mainwaring only approached one member of MRIA with=20= idea of a flat percentage and it was NEVER ratified by their board of direct= ors and will not be.

Thank you for sharing your conc= erns about Union Pacific's licensing program. Union Pacific announced a form= al licensing program in 2002. The program for the model railroad industry wa= s developed in consultation with the Model Railroad Industry Association.&nb= sp; Rates for model railroad manufacturers are extremely low and small busin= esses are generally exempt from royalty payments. Media reports and In= ternet chatter have inaccurately portrayed the royalty fees. On a $10=20= model, royalty rates are pennies. You can find additional information=20= about our licensing program
on our Web site at http://www.uprr.com/newsinfo/modelrail.shtml.

--part1_b2.26905d2f.2d1ff0cb_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kevin Lehman" Subject: Re: [PRR] What Did You Get? Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 19:46:55 -0500 What does Triumph VI cover? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20 Please visit my homepages =20 The Del-Mar-Va Model Railroad Club Website=20 http://community.webtv.net/PCRR4LIFE/TheDelMarVaModel=20 Kevin S Lehman`s Train & Railroad Equipment Pictures=20 http://community.webtv.net/KEVINLEHMAN/KevinSLehmansTrain/=20 Owner of Railfanning_Delmarva Yahoo Group=20 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Railfanning_Delmarva ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C3CD7B.594A0300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

What does Triumph VI cover?

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Please visit my homepages

The Del-Mar-Va Model Railroad Club Website
http://com= munity.webtv.net/PCRR4LIFE/TheDelMarVaModel=20

Kevin S Lehman`s Train & Railroad Equipment Pictures
http:= //community.webtv.net/KEVINLEHMAN/KevinSLehmansTrain/=20

Owner of Railfanning_Delmarva Yahoo Group
http://groups= yahoo.com/group/Railfanning_Delmarva
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C3CD7B.594A0300-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 18:08:20 -0700 From: "Dave Mittner" Subject: [PRR] Name the Painting List, I am seeking the help of those knowledgeable and creative minds = subscribing to PRR-talk in an effort to come up with a title for my = latest artwork. I have just finished a 24" by 30" acrylic painting = depicting a T1 bursting through a snow drift. The scene is set = somewhere on the mainline in either Illinois or Indiana with engine = #5514 still in it's original 1946 design. Here is a link that will show = you a pretty decent representation of the painting. CLICK HERE What I would like everyone to do is submit what they feel would be a = good title for this painting. If enough responses are received, I will = choose what I feel are the top five candidates and then have the entire = list vote for the winning entry. The person that submitted this winning = entry will receive a signed print of this painting when they become = available, probably the end of January. After contacting Jerry Britton and getting his blessing for this = endeavor, he became the first participant. The first candidate will be = "Northern Express" submitted by Jerry himself. I will accept your = submissions until the evening of Sunday, January 4th, 2004. You can = contact me personally, off the list, or via PRR-talk. Besides this = lists members, only two other people will have seen this painting. You = will not find it on my web site, so you will need to use the above link = to view the painting. I will periodically re-post details of this contest and any current = submissions throughout this week to insure as many list members as = possible can participate. Thanks for participating and good luck! Sincerely, David B Mittner Dave's Railroad Art Gallery ------=_NextPart_000_0141_01C3CD6D.938AC3A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
List,

    I am seeking the = help of those=20 knowledgeable and creative minds subscribing to PRR-talk in an effort to = come up=20 with a title for my latest artwork. I have just finished a = 24" by 30"=20 acrylic painting depicting a T1 bursting through a snow = drift. =20 The scene is set somewhere on the mainline in either Illinois = or=20 Indiana with engine #5514 still in it's original 1946 design. Here = is a=20 link that will show you a pretty decent representation of the = painting. CLICK = HERE

    What I would like = everyone to do=20 is submit what they feel would be a good title for this = painting. If=20 enough responses are received, I will choose what I feel are the top = five=20 candidates and then have the entire list vote for the winning = entry. The=20 person that submitted this winning entry will receive a signed print of = this=20 painting when they become available, probably the end of = January.

    After contacting = Jerry Britton=20 and getting his blessing for this endeavor, he became the first = participant. The=20 first candidate will be "Northern Express" submitted by Jerry = himself. I=20 will accept your submissions until the evening of Sunday, January 4th,=20 2004. You can contact me personally, off the list, or = via=20 PRR-talk. Besides this lists members, only two other people will = have seen=20 this painting. You will not find it on my web site, so you will = need to=20 use the above link to view the painting.

    I will periodically = re-post=20 details of this contest and any current submissions throughout = this week to=20 insure as many list members as possible can participate.

Thanks for participating and good=20 luck!

Sincerely, David B Mittner

Dave's = Railroad Art=20 Gallery
------=_NextPart_000_0141_01C3CD6D.938AC3A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: "PRR-talk" From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] What Did You Get? Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 20:08:01 -0500 To: "Kevin Lehman" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Dec 28, 2003, at 7:46 PM, Kevin Lehman wrote: > What does Triumph VI cover? Largely the "Maryland Division". Covers what is now NEC from Washington to Philly, the Octoraro Branch, the Port Deposit branch, the Northern Central between Baltimore and Harrisburg (with a lot to be desired), and a brief mention of the Frederick branch. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI T1's Have Arrived! Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 20:14:06 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Marvin, It is true for the N&W A class but i'm unsure about the rest. Though I must say, I sawe one pulling 120 cars up a 2.7% grade and it only slowed slightly overall. Kind of funny condiering three brass J1's couldn't pull the same train. -John Marvin wrote: A recent review in RailModel Journal indicated that the N&W 2-6-6-4 possessed traction tires. Is this true of the BLI imports? These tires were a pain on the old Rivarossi models. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2003 7:38 AM To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: [PRR] BLI T1's Have Arrived! The T1's have arrived...at BLI, that is. They are due to ship to dealers on Friday. New photos have been posted to BLI's web site. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 20:21:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Name the Painting MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, I would like to cast my suggestion for the T1 Painting title as "CHRISTMAS RUSH" ..........Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 19:47:27 -0600 From: Randy Subject: Re: [PRR] Name the Painting From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] Name the Painting Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 21:26:32 -0500 Dave and the List: How about: "Snow fighting, Pennsy style." Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana ------=_NextPart_000_0556_01C3CD89.43941E20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Dave and the List:

How about:

"Snow fighting, Pennsy style."

Ted Andrews

Carmel, Indiana
------=_NextPart_000_0556_01C3CD89.43941E20-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:33:02 +1100 From: "Mick Molloy" Subject: Re: [PRR] Name the Painting From: AlbertSR@aol.com Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 21:53:41 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Name the Painting Hi Dave & List, I'd call the painting "Bustin Through" Al Stump --part1_16.39b85f1a.2d20f135_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Hi Dave & List,
I'd call the painting "Bustin Through"
Al Stump --part1_16.39b85f1a.2d20f135_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Name the Painting Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 22:04:58 -0500 Two suggestions: "MASTER OF THE ELEMENTS" or "WE'LL MAKE NEW YORK ON TIME." The scene is highly reminiscent of areas around the Illinois-Indiana = state line on the Chicago-Fort Wayne main line. Colehour, maybe? Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dave Mittner=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 8:08 PM Subject: [PRR] Name the Painting List, I am seeking the help of those knowledgeable and creative minds = subscribing to PRR-talk in an effort to come up with a title for my = latest artwork. I have just finished a 24" by 30" acrylic painting = depicting a T1 bursting through a snow drift. The scene is set = somewhere on the mainline in either Illinois or Indiana with engine = #5514 still in it's original 1946 design. Here is a link that will show = you a pretty decent representation of the painting. CLICK HERE What I would like everyone to do is submit what they feel would be = a good title for this painting. If enough responses are received, I = will choose what I feel are the top five candidates and then have the = entire list vote for the winning entry. The person that submitted this = winning entry will receive a signed print of this painting when they = become available, probably the end of January. After contacting Jerry Britton and getting his blessing for this = endeavor, he became the first participant. The first candidate will be = "Northern Express" submitted by Jerry himself. I will accept your = submissions until the evening of Sunday, January 4th, 2004. You can = contact me personally, off the list, or via PRR-talk. Besides this = lists members, only two other people will have seen this painting. You = will not find it on my web site, so you will need to use the above link = to view the painting. I will periodically re-post details of this contest and any = current submissions throughout this week to insure as many list members = as possible can participate. Thanks for participating and good luck! Sincerely, David B Mittner Dave's Railroad Art Gallery ------=_NextPart_000_0132_01C3CD8E.A2516800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Two suggestions:

"MASTER OF THE = ELEMENTS"

or

"WE'LL MAKE NEW YORK ON = TIME."

The scene is highly reminiscent of areas around the=20 Illinois-Indiana state line on the Chicago-Fort Wayne main line. = Colehour,=20 maybe?

Gregg Mahlkov

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Dave = Mittner=20

To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com

Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 = 8:08=20 PM

Subject: [PRR] Name the = Painting

List,

I am seeking the = help of those=20 knowledgeable and creative minds subscribing to PRR-talk in an effort = to come=20 up with a title for my latest artwork. I have just finished = a 24"=20 by 30" acrylic painting depicting a T1 bursting through a = snow=20 drift. The scene is set somewhere on the mainline in = either=20 Illinois or Indiana with engine #5514 still in it's original 1946=20 design. Here is a link that will show you a pretty decent = representation=20 of the painting. CLICK = HERE

What I would like = everyone to=20 do is submit what they feel would be a good title for this=20 painting. If enough responses are received, I will choose what I = feel=20 are the top five candidates and then have the entire list vote for the = winning=20 entry. The person that submitted this winning entry will receive = a=20 signed print of this painting when they become available, probably the = end of=20 January.

After contacting = Jerry Britton=20 and getting his blessing for this endeavor, he became the first = participant.=20 The first candidate will be "Northern Express" submitted by Jerry=20 himself. I will accept your submissions until the evening of = Sunday,=20 January 4th, 2004. You can contact me personally, off the=20 list, or via PRR-talk. Besides this lists members, only two = other=20 people will have seen this painting. You will not find it on my = web=20 site, so you will need to use the above link to view the=20 painting.

I will = periodically re-post=20 details of this contest and any current submissions throughout = this week=20 to insure as many list members as possible can = participate.

Thanks for participating and good=20 luck!

Sincerely, David B = Mittner

Dave's = Railroad Art=20 Gallery

------=_NextPart_000_0132_01C3CD8E.A2516800-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chuck Friedlein" Subject: Re: [PRR] Name the Painting Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 22:06:32 -0500 Dave, That's one #$!! of a nice piece of art ! Are you going to have copies = made for sale? My title submission is: DASHING THROUGH THE SNOW=20 (borrowing from the "Jingle Bells" song). Chuck Friedlein ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dave Mittner=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 8:08 PM Subject: [PRR] Name the Painting List, I am seeking the help of those knowledgeable and creative minds = subscribing to PRR-talk in an effort to come up with a title for my = latest artwork. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3CD8E.DA1A1B60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Dave,

That's one #$!! of a nice piece of art ! Are = you going=20 to have copies made for sale?

My title submission is:

DASHING THROUGH THE SNOW

(borrowing from the "Jingle Bells" = song).

Chuck Friedlein

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Dave = Mittner=20

I am not pleased with the prr layout in the altoona museum.as a profession= al model company,there should be an accurate description of Altoona,at least= a part of the city as it was,not a general model with the name Altoona.Kalm= bach and the MR staff seems to write,and endorse those that do this type of=20= proto-phototype modelling,and for what they have in resources,it really is s= ad,Us scratcbuilders study,study,and study, photos,dims,drawings,plans,etc.=20= to get it right....For love of the hobby,but believe you me,if I was contrac= ted to build a model of an area like Altoona or Chicago,or even Emery Grove,= it would be recognizable as such...Now that I have shot my mouth off,I'll go= back to figuring out a way to lay out a section of Wrightsville...

Jeff Jacobs

-------------------------------1071110450-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Christopher Baker" Subject: [PRR] X-29 boxcars - Who has the best HO-scale model? Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:55:19 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I know that at least a couple of manufacturers/distributors have recently come outh with or announced X-29 boxcar models. So does anyone have a thought they'd be willing to share on which model is the best and most accurate? I'd like to acquire a couple dozen of 'em, primarily to flesh out some of my secondary train consists, but will use some in local freight trains too. Thanks for your input. Chris Baker #1918 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] prr in newest mr Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:01:06 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jeff and List, In some espects I can agree wth you. My father and I were just recently discussing this after I saw the post and made mention of it. As a layout I think it's very well done. The problem my father and I have is the accuracy of the rolling stock itself. It seems as though nobody has taken the time to even build a Bowser kit with a Bellpaire firebox. On another note, the limit to what a company does with a layout is in the money spent. I've just recently been employed at a custom layout design company. In addition to layouts we also have the ability to custom design structures with the use of an acrylic laser cutter. I can speculate that if our company would have been given the layout contract we would have done at least one 'Altoona Accurate" building on the layout. In the end it still comes down to how much money do you wish to spend. One of the first few things I asked after being hired was cost of doing a custom building. What it comes down to is size. The cost to do a "big city" station such as Philadelphia's 30th Street station would be estimated at around $3,000 whther its in N scale or Gauge 1 its all reletive to size. Gentelmen, i've only been employed for four weeks. My eyes have been opened to so much already. You can pick up a book, read the cover, and put it back, but until you open it up and read it and look into why an author did it in a certain way it's unfair to judge. Granted, the Altoona layout, just like the museum, has been finished for many years and is availible to the scrutiny of those on the list. Many will come to criticize, srcutinize, suggest, badger, and bug. It is the one who takes a step above the rest and gives the money, the time, the effort that makes the final call. Until that can be recognized and achieved the scrutiny will remain forever silenced. Thats my opinion and let it be said that I gave my $10.00 worth. -John PS- For those wondering, the company i work for makes accurate kits including a bank modeled off of one in Williamsport, PA and the American Brewery in Baltimore. If that isn't enough of a hint, they also make a Bromo-Seltzer tower kit and a City Station that is based on Penn Station in Baltimore. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:07:56 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] prr in newest mr From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Wednesday, December 10, 2003, at 10:01 PM, John Frantz wrote: > Jeff and List, > > In some espects I can agree wth you. My father and I were just > recently discussing this after I saw the post and made mention of it. > As a layout I think it's very well done. The problem my father and I > have is the accuracy of the rolling stock itself. It seems as though > nobody has taken the time to even build a Bowser kit with a Bellpaire > firebox. Yeah, like is that an IHB 0-8-0 in the back corner? I counted at least three major errors in the rolling stock area. Add to that the problem of MR's dreck for copy, and it was a low point in the issue (for me). I know I'm a cranky rivet counter, so I figured I'd stick to the "if you can't say something good..." rule, but since the cat is out of the bag... I don't want to "bash" the museum, but on the other hand, they do have an obligation to present historically correct information. I'm willing to bet that folks on this list would donate time/effort...even models to rectify these issues...so how does one politely let the museum know what the problems are(?) since the museum is something I think we would all like to support! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-2-502679558 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII On Wednesday, December 10, 2003, at 10:01 PM, John Frantz wrote: Jeff and List, In some espects I can agree wth you. My father and I were just recently discussing this after I saw the post and made mention of it. As a layout I think it's very well done. The problem my father and I have is the accuracy of the rolling stock itself. It seems as though nobody has taken the time to even build a Bowser kit with a Bellpaire firebox. Yeah, like is that an IHB 0-8-0 in the back corner? I counted at least three major errors in the rolling stock area. Add to that the problem of MR's dreck for copy, and it was a low point in the issue (for me). I know I'm a cranky rivet counter, so I figured I'd stick to the "if you can't say something good..." rule, but since the cat is out of the bag... I don't want to "bash" the museum, but on the other hand, they do have an obligation to present historically correct information. I'm willing to bet that folks on this list would donate time/effort...even models to rectify these issues...so how does one politely let the museum know what the problems are(?) since the museum is something I think we would all like to support! Happy Rails Bruce HelveticaBruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-2-502679558-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:34:42 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] X-29 boxcars - Who has the best HO-scale model? From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Wednesday, December 10, 2003, at 09:55 PM, Christopher Baker wrote: > I know that at least a couple of manufacturers/distributors have > recently > come outh with or announced X-29 boxcar models. So does anyone have a > thought they'd be willing to share on which model is the best and most > accurate? Chris, Where ya been dude? RECENTLY? The X29s on the market have been out for quite a few years now...perhaps you are looking at the latest RTR releases of these models? Walthers - cheap (that's about all I'll say ) Red Caboose - the gold standard in styrene. Lots of variations...plate end, Dreadnought ends, 1924, 1928 bodies, lots of paint schemes. Kits are still available, in limited numbers and from eBay. New releases primarily sold as RTR from RC. Tichy - announced an X29 a decade ago, never released. Sunshine - resin X29s, out of production, some with patch panels, eBay (and expensive) Brass - some brass cars are good, some are rocks, all cost more than RC... Many folks have been waiting for X29 rebuilds in styrene...they are still waiting. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-6-504285991 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII On Wednesday, December 10, 2003, at 09:55 PM, Christopher Baker wrote: I know that at least a couple of manufacturers/distributors have recently come outh with or announced X-29 boxcar models. So does anyone have a thought they'd be willing to share on which model is the best and most accurate? Chris, Where ya been dude? RECENTLY? The X29s on the market have been out for quite a few years now...perhaps you are looking at the latest RTR releases of these models? Walthers - cheap (that's about all I'll say <) Red Caboose - the gold standard in styrene. Lots of variations...plate end, Dreadnought ends, 1924, 1928 bodies, lots of paint schemes. Kits are still available, in limited numbers and from eBay. New releases primarily sold as RTR from RC. Tichy - announced an X29 a decade ago, never released. Sunshine - resin X29s, out of production, some with patch panels, eBay (and expensive) Brass - some brass cars are good, some are rocks, all cost more than RC... Many folks have been waiting for X29 rebuilds in styrene...they are still waiting. Happy Rails Bruce HelveticaBruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-6-504285991-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] prr in newest mr Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:59:25 -0500 From: Bruce Smith [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu] Subject: Re: [PRR] prr in newest mr size=2>-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Smith Jplfans@aol.com
Subject: Re: [PRR] prr in newest mr Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:17:30 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Partial bibliography of CT1000 et al. 12th revision From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] X29 boxcars - Who has the best HO-scale model? Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:46:17 +0000 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:07:30 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: No question today -- surprise!!! Just sharing some findings. I was looking into ratios of passenger power in 1954, for the Philadelphia, Middle, and Pittsburgh divisions that I model. I'm sharing this info in case it helps anyone else. Source is the March 1954 MP229. Going by the general assumption that electrics would bring passenger trains into Harrisburg from points east. Interesting to note that, even though the PRR had a significant engine house at Harrisburg for passenger power, there are ZERO passenger units allocated to the Philadelphia Division!!! Same for the Pittsburgh Division...ZERO passenger locos in 1954. It looks like they listed them all under the Middle Division since they pretty much ran from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh. By 1954 there were no BP class units in service. Of the passenger units rostered, the breakdown is as follows: 74 EMD E8A units (Class EP22)...45% 49 EMD E7A units (Class EP20)...30%...39% collectively 14 EMD E7B units (Class EP20)...9% (caution: commonly ran with E8's) 10 Alco PA1 units (Class AP20)...9% collectively 5 Alco PB1 units (Class AP20) 8 EMD FP7A units (Class EFP15) ...7% collectively 4 EMD FP7B units (Class EFP15) The above percentages do NOT take into account any steam still in passenger service between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh...only diesel. I figure the two Alco lashups that I have on hand should suffice; add to that an FP lashup if they ever come out. Then the rest should be a reasonable balance between E7's and E8's. Throw in a little steam for good measure. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 Subject: RE: [PRR] Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:46:00 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 Thread-Index: AcPAE7osnL/tYtVKTlSYYsxWcBsO2gAAzarg From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: "Jerry Britton" , "PRR-Talk LIST" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Dec 2003 18:46:00.0941 (UTC) FILETIME=[05BAB9D0:01C3C017] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Where were the diesels assigned that operated west of Pittburgh? -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 12:08 PM To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: [PRR] Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 No question today -- surprise!!! Just sharing some findings. I was looking into ratios of passenger power in 1954, for the=20 Philadelphia, Middle, and Pittsburgh divisions that I model. I'm=20 sharing this info in case it helps anyone else. Source is the March=20 1954 MP229. Going by the general assumption that electrics would bring passenger=20 trains into Harrisburg from points east. Interesting to note that, even though the PRR had a significant engine=20 house at Harrisburg for passenger power, there are ZERO passenger units=20 allocated to the Philadelphia Division!!! Same for the Pittsburgh=20 Division...ZERO passenger locos in 1954. It looks like they listed them=20 all under the Middle Division since they pretty much ran from=20 Harrisburg to Pittsburgh. By 1954 there were no BP class units in service. Of the passenger units=20 rostered, the breakdown is as follows: 74 EMD E8A units (Class EP22)...45% 49 EMD E7A units (Class EP20)...30%...39% collectively 14 EMD E7B units (Class EP20)...9% (caution: commonly ran with E8's) 10 Alco PA1 units (Class AP20)...9% collectively 5 Alco PB1 units (Class AP20) 8 EMD FP7A units (Class EFP15) ...7% collectively 4 EMD FP7B units (Class EFP15) The above percentages do NOT take into account any steam still in=20 passenger service between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh...only diesel. I figure the two Alco lashups that I have on hand should suffice; add=20 to that an FP lashup if they ever come out. Then the rest should be a=20 reasonable balance between E7's and E8's. Throw in a little steam for=20 good measure. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:49:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, December 11, 2003, at 01:46 PM, Cadwell, Marvin L wrote: > Where were the diesels assigned that operated west of Pittburgh? As my post said, I was only passing on info that I researched for my own use, for the Philadelphia, Middle, and Pittsburgh divisions. I did not look further west. There were 19 divisions in 1954. Feel free to review an MP229 as it pertains to your own needs. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Doug Drew Subject: [PRR] Dunham's Altoona Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:16:32 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 Subject: RE: [PRR] Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:10:00 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 Thread-Index: AcPAGkBXZdA011qkQ8W1G4A1jGNdewAABZEQ From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: "Jerry Britton" Cc: "PRR-Talk LIST" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Dec 2003 19:10:04.0779 (UTC) FILETIME=[6252EBB0:01C3C01A] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Just asked out of curiosity. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 12:49 PM To: Cadwell, Marvin L Cc: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: Re: [PRR] Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 On Thursday, December 11, 2003, at 01:46 PM, Cadwell, Marvin L wrote: > Where were the diesels assigned that operated west of Pittburgh? As my post said, I was only passing on info that I researched for my=20 own use, for the Philadelphia, Middle, and Pittsburgh divisions. I did=20 not look further west. There were 19 divisions in 1954. Feel free to=20 review an MP229 as it pertains to your own needs. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:58:28 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry: The Northern Central book shows centipedes on passenger trains (MD Div) dated 1949, so it must be very early 1950's they were removed... Jeff > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:17:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, December 11, 2003, at 02:58 PM, Jeff Warner wrote: > The Northern Central book shows centipedes on passenger trains (MD > Div) dated 1949, so it must be very early 1950's they were removed... The Centipedes were actually still pretty new then. They arrived in 1947, when the PRR was buying "samples" of practically every locomotive made. It took a few years until they gave in to the fact that they just weren't reliable. They regeared them for helper service, painted them in the freight scheme, and reclassified them as BH50's. The BH50's are listed in the Pittsburgh Division as of 1954. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:47:19 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jeff, Bill Lewis, a friend of mine, has pictures his dad took of a pair sitting at York Station with one the 'Limited' trains. in 1948 or 49. -John Jeff wrote: Jerry: The Northern Central book shows centipedes on passenger trains (MD Div) dated 1949, so it must be very early 1950's they were removed... Jeff ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] Museum Layouts Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:53:24 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gentelmen, For the record, the company i'm working for is Custom Model Railroads based out of Baltimore. www.cmrtrain.com Currently we are completeing a 1:32 scale model of LaSalle Street Station in Chicago (B&O) and as of Tuesday, benchwork was finished on a new B&O Museum layout. The B&O is slated to be done in August and i'm looking forward to constructive criticism after it is debuted. Primarily a B&O layout it will have some Western Maryland and Pennsylvania RR influence. It will be aproximately 10'x50'. Regards, John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Fw: [PRR] X-29 boxcars - Who has the best HO-scale model? Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:04:57 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: > If you want them buy the dozen's I'd suggest the red caboose X29's. You > didn't say what year you model but using my era of 1957 as a reference, I'd > get 18 circle keystone, flat steel ends, 2 circle dreadnaught ends, and 3 > Shadow Keystone cars, and 1 Merchandise service car. Depending on the > passenger train breakdown on your layout you may want some in express > service also. I'm probably off on the ratio and Ben Hom or Bruce Smith will > correct me. Chris you should know there are no dashes in PRR Classes, > except the H-2a hopper but that was really N&W. > > If you enjoy building resin kits Sunshine made very nice X29 models > including ones with patch panels, however I believe they are out of > production. I don't have the newest Sunshine list. > > If you quantity over quality or don't have a lot of money to spend. The > older TM and Walthers X29's that can still be found at swap meets. > > Why your secondary trains and locals? X29 were still everywhere in the late > 40's and into the 50's until the X29b and X29d rebuilds started to impact > the straight X29 classes numbers. > > Brian J Carlson > Cheektowaga NY > PRRT&HS 4919 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christopher Baker" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 10:55 PM > Subject: [PRR] X-29 boxcars - Who has the best HO-scale model? > > > > I know that at least a couple of manufacturers/distributors have recently > > come outh with or announced X-29 boxcar models. So does anyone have a > > thought they'd be willing to share on which model is the best and most > > accurate? > > > > I'd like to acquire a couple dozen of 'em, primarily to flesh out some of > my > > secondary train consists, but will use some in local freight trains too. > > > > Thanks for your input. > > > > Chris Baker #1918 > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Re: [PRR] prr in newest mr Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:25:11 -0500 Since no one brought it up yet, look at the end of the GG1 on page 143. = At least "it" belongs in a museum. LOL. Thanks Bruce now the first = thing I see it the IHB loco. I also like the catenary. Did the PRR ever = have a building that said X-ray?=20 Someone mentioned that we should donate models to the museum. At least = one person on this list has, and I do not see Greg Martin's F-units = anywhere. Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bruce Smith=20 To: John Frantz=20 Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com ; Jplfans@aol.com=20 Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 9:07 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] prr in newest mr=20 On Wednesday, December 10, 2003, at 10:01 PM, John Frantz wrote: Jeff and List, In some espects I can agree wth you. My father and I were just = recently discussing this after I saw the post and made mention of it. As = a layout I think it's very well done. The problem my father and I have = is the accuracy of the rolling stock itself. It seems as though nobody = has taken the time to even build a Bowser kit with a Bellpaire firebox. Yeah, like is that an IHB 0-8-0 in the back corner? I counted at least = three major errors in the rolling stock area. Add to that the problem of = MR's dreck for copy, and it was a low point in the issue (for me). I = know I'm a cranky rivet counter, so I figured I'd stick to the "if you = can't say something good..." rule, but since the cat is out of the = bag... I don't want to "bash" the museum, but on the other hand, they do = have an obligation to present historically correct information. I'm = willing to bet that folks on this list would donate time/effort...even = models to rectify these issues...so how does one politely let the museum = know what the problems are(?) since the museum is something I think we = would all like to support! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.=20 Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin = Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| = |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C3C014.1CFFA220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Since no one brought it up yet, look at = the end of=20 the GG1 on page 143. At least "it" belongs in a museum. LOL. = Thanks Bruce=20 now the first thing I see it the IHB loco. I also like the = catenary. Did=20 the PRR ever have a building that said X-ray?

Someone mentioned that we should donate = models to=20 the museum. At least one person on this list has, and I do not see = Greg=20 Martin's F-units anywhere.

Brian J Carlson
Cheektowaga = NY

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 Bruce=20 Smith

Early in 2003 when BLI's offerings consisted of the NYC Hudson & PRR M1, , the N&W Class A, PRR GG1, EMD E7, PRR T1, & USRA Heavy Mikado 2-8-2 weren't even mentioned in the offerings - yet the scheduled delivery date of June 2003 for the M1, then November 2003, then December 2003 have been slipped yet again to January 2004 while the GG1, E7, and N&W class A are in people's hands. For those people who have been pleased by the release of the GG1, E7, Hudson, etc., there are those who wonder if the M1 will ever arrive. I had planned on the M1 as a birthday present for my son in July - didn't happen then as a Christmas present - still won't happen. With the recent legal proceedings by MTH against decoder manufacturers, one might also wonder if the DCC and sound capability will be watered down in future BLI offerings. Don Luke Tucson, AZ Prr6100@aol.com wrote:

__________________________________________________________________ McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network. Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.