From: Prr6100@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 11:47:02 EST Subject: [PRR] M-1 -------------------------------1067705222 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone heard about the Broadway Limited M-1's lately? Are they still on time to be released in November or has it been moved back? Thanks. -------------------------------1067705222 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Has anyone heard abo= ut the Broadway Limited M-1's lately? Are they still on time to be rel= eased in November or has it been moved back? Thanks.<= /HTML> -------------------------------1067705222-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach"
----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies"----- Original Message -----Sent: 11/1/03 6:47:02 AMSubject: [PRR] M-1Has anyone heard about the Broadway Limited M-1's lately? Are they still on time to be released in November or has it been moved back? Thanks.
Subject: Re: [PRR] Road numbers= of X29 Railway Express cars
From: "Claus Schlund" <schlund@cwnet.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 19:00:34 -0800
Hi Fred,
My photocopy of the Apr 1938 ORER has the following entry:
AAR Designation BX Express 2000-2498 (number of cars 215) under 60 ft=20= length.
While the ORER does NOT give the PRR class designation for passenger
equipmenbt (it DOES for freight equipment) these are probably the
X29 cars assigned for that era.
I believe the low 2000's numbers were X29 cars for a very
long time - probably during your 1937 era as well
as earlier and later.
- Claus
Subject: Bowser B6 now availabl= e
From: "Martin Harriss" <martin@Princeton.EDU>
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:30:34 -0500
It apprears that Bowser's B6 is now available (they just updated their
web page this morning.)
Martin
I saw a J, and a couple of M's, along with many L's, = at Enola back in 1953, or so. It was a smoky place. Within = only a few months of my last visit there when steam was operational, it = was all gone--cleaned out. The only thing left was the coaling = tower down in the mixing bowl. I can't attest to the service = assigned the J, or M's. Might've been stand-by for other assigned = power. Wish I had a camera with my back then.
Andrew Harmantas, now watching the action at C&O = Milepost FM Zero.
-----Original Message-----
From: kbt@bit-net.com [mailto:kbt@bit-net.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 5:03 PM
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] J1 at Enola?
Hello,
I'm posting the question below for a friend. =
You
can reply to the list, me, or directly to =
Jim.
Thanks,
kbt
-------
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:08:54 -0600
From: "Jim Kindraka" =
<raisinone@wideopenwest.com>
Subject: Pennsy Question...
Had a question at the Fest regarding the PRR 2-10-4 =
and where they
operated. Can
any of you Pennsy guys tell me if the 'J's traveled =
as far east as Enola??
I have
photos of them on Horseshoe, but wasn't sure if =
Altoona was the eastern
terminus of
'J' activity or if they ranged east to Enola.
Responses off line are fine...
Jim Kindraka
River Raisin Models
http://www.riverraisinmodels.com
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|
Jamie, Just off the top of my head, it would seem that t=
he picture would be in southern Ohio. If I'm not mistaken, th=
is would have been the Panhandle and would have gone in the directi=
on of St Louis. I'm quite sure there are people on this list =
that will pin it down for you . Jim
-------Original Message-------
From: Jamie Bothwell
Date: Wednesday, N=
ovember 05, 2003 12:23:07 AM
Subject: [PRR] The=
first in a series. Good evening,
On page 116 of "Pennsylvania Railroad" by Schafer and Solomon=
in the
"Railroad Color History" series there is a photo of a pair of
Centipedes on single track pulling what is claimed to be the America=
n
through Manchester, OH in April, 1952. My road atlas list two
Manchesters in Ohio. One is way down along the Ohio River, so there =
is
no chance of a Pennsy line through there. The other is between Akron=
and Massillon. I find it hard to believe the American would be calli=
ng
at either of these Manchesters on a regular basis. As a St. Louis
train the American would have traveled through Coshocton, Dennison, =
and
Steubenville. A 1952 timetable shows this train through eastern Ohio=
in the early to to mid morning, but not so early that the sun wouldn=
't
be out. So, is the train shown really the American? Is it really in<=
/DIV>
Manchester? If so, which one, and why? If not, what train is it,
and/or where was the photo taken?
Jamie Bothwell
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According to the April 24, 1955 ETT No. 8, the J class locomotives were proh= ibited on the Middle Division mainline from the Philadelphia division post t= o BELL and all branches except Bald Eagle from Lock Haven to Park, Clearfiel= d from Park to Tyrone, Holidaysburg ALTO to Jones Street Holidaysburg.= This raises several questions. Since the J's were permitted from Loch=20= Haven to Tyrone but not from Tyrone to BELL, where did they originate. = The only possibility is the Williamsport Division. It is also impossible for a J to get to Enola via the Middle Division mainli= ne, as they are only permitted from SLOPE to ANTIS on the mainline. J's were permitted across the entire length of the Buffalo Division ETT No.=20= 9 date April 30, 1950. I do not have a copy of the Renovo Division, wi= lliamsport Division and Sesquehanna Division ETT to check the rule 1160-A2 f= or these divisions. FYI the Q's had the same restrictions as the J's in the September 28, 1947 E= TT No. 10 Rich Orr --part1_105.38f215e4.2cdaf6eb_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] The first in= a series. Especially since this is an R.D. Acton, Sr. photo, one suspects that West Ma= nchester, on the St. Louis main west of Dayton, could be the location. = Can anyone verify that the pole line there is on the south side? For the historian, this line started -- and almost died -- as the Dayton &am= p; Western, was picked up by the Little Miami Railroad circa 1853, which was= in turn leased to the Panhandle (PC&StL) in 1869. Believe it was=20= part of the Cincinnati Division until 1928, and then became part of the Colu= mbus (later Buckeye) Division. The route through Dayton specialized in= east-west passenger (and mail) trains; most freights passed through Urbana,= bypassing ugly grades and short sidings between Xenia and New Paris OH.&nbs= p; Abandonment came by 1978. This photo is a bit of a revelation, since I didn't locate/recognize any Cen= tipede pix several years ago when putting together a program on Dayton Ohio.= Further, I don't have any Centipede shots for the Cincinnati article=20= now in prep. I never met R.D., but I've bought some great prints he shot with K4s in and=20= out of Dayton (I grew up on the main between Dayton and Xenia).  = ; &nb= sp; Rick T= ipton - Louisville KY &nbs= p; &n= bsp; Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) &nbs= p; &n= bsp; And Remembering PRR Lines West --part1_180.21fa051c.2cdc1e66_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jeff Smith" I was wondering how often the M1s were =
used on=20
passenger trains and on what assignments? Were they used on =
passenger=20
trains after WWII?
Thanks,
Jeff Smith
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From: "bill pokorny" That depends on how much time you have and how much driving =
you wish=20
to do. There are 4 railroads running on Delmarva and the all run on what =
was=20
once the Delmarva Division/Branch of the PRR. The only class one is the =
Norfolk=20
Southern with most of it's equipment still in Conrail Blue, The Maryland =
and=20
Delaware with a couple of nicely kept RS3m's and one of those weird =
CF7's=20
all done in a cross between PRR tuscan and Norfork western maroon. There =
is also=20
the Delaware Coastline and The Eastern Shore. I am not sure of =
their paint=20
schemes. The NS runs south from I guess Wilmington and runs almost =
parallel to=20
route 13 south of Dover. Then I believe at Harrington it branches off =
toward the=20
east then south right thru Gtown where it interchanges with the DE=20
Coastline. Also right in Georgetown is the old Georgetown station which =
went=20
through a very unfortunate resurfacing some years back . There is also =
the=20
remnants of an engine house. If you come into Gtown from route 9 go 1/2 =
way=20
around the circle and continue east to the crossing look left and you =
will see=20
the station . If you squint just right you will also see the old engine =
house=20
[it's been heavily remodeled] . If you turn right =20
at the crossing you will get to the interchange in about 2 =
blocks or=20
so. Other points of interest are Seaford interchange yard =
connects=20
to the Maryland and DE also Dupont Plant where those WWII parachutes =
started=20
life as nylon, some waterfront railroading, a moveable=20
bridge and the old PRR station. Delmar DE further down the=20
mainline has a ball signal and other PRR artifacts along the =
mainline.=20
By the way if you do get to Delmar the cabin car is not a cabin car but =
a=20
B&O caboose. There is also a small museum that is manned =
actually womened in the Library on =20
Sat mornings. Further down the =
mainline=20
in Salisbury is a beautiful station on the left of route 13. =
If you=20
have lots of time and like to drive let me know there are a number of =
other=20
interesting places on Delmarva. BillP
M1s were often found on Harrisburg-Buffalo/Erie passenger trains, where the speed of a K4 wasn't necessarily always needed. They operated in this service both before and after WWII. They also operated occasionally in passenger service on the main line Harrisburg-Pittsburgh, but the higher speeds of that route meant that K4s, either singly or doubleheaded, were more often assigned. In PRR's limited assignments of 4-8-2s in passenger service, the company assigned M1s, but not M1a's, which for reasons that were intensely investigated by PRR but never completely resolved, turned out to be a disaster. The railroad spent a couple of years unsuccessfully trying to figure out why the 10 passenger M1a's (6700-6709, steam-heat piping, gold-leaf striping on cabs and tenders, etc.) consistently failed on the road while the M1s did not, but all M1a's were fine in freight service. It had something to do with the drafting of gases in the smokebox and PRR never did figure out what the problem was. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. --------------040402000405040807040308-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" ------=_NextPart_000_0264_01C3A4B4.FAD41F20-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Robert Kessler" The BROKER of Woodbridge wr= eck fame was K4s 2445. Pat McKinney --part1_a3.4bbf12a7.2cdd57f2_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Re:=20
Question asked the other day - Interesting book.=20
Answers many questions. however it raises at least one. The picture of =
the 26=20
&1 parlor car on page 6 named JESSIE is out of place my sources =
indicate=20
that it was a Mopac car, Why was in a PRR book, a mistake or was it =
necessary to=20
fill the page?
Author=20
Dave Sweetland says -
The car was in PRR/LIRR service =
in 1936 when=20
photographed at Long Island City.
Al
Coincident with Milwaukee Trainfest, =
the Model=20
Railroad Industry Association meets and invites dealers. Of some =
interest=20
to this list:
BLI schedule as of now (estimates only, =
obviously)=20
is:
USRA 4-8-2 end of November
PRR M1a and M1b =
December
PRR T1 January
NW2 about April
Forgot to ask about J1, but will check =
with them=20
tomorrow.
They expressed considerable =
interest in=20
offering 6-packs of K7A stockcars without sound.
Des Plaines Hobbies PRR P85 first run =
is sold=20
out. Next run of P85 with Keystone herald is underway. =
Working on=20
next car model. No ETA
Bob Zoeller
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Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 20:50:35 -0600
From: Randy Dayna & Randy Williamson --=====================_227009031==.ALT-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "DON MURPHY" A number of years ago I sent a check to reserve =
a new=20
passenger car
by ,I think, the Middle Division. I thought that it =
as related=20
to the PRRT&HS.
Exactly who or what was this organization =
??
Did the car ever get produced ?? What happened =
to the=20
reservation deposits??
lah
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From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" L. Heintz wrote:
"A number of years ago I sent a =
check to=20
reserve a new passenger car by, I think, the Middle Division. I =
thought=20
that it as related to the PRRT&HS. Exactly who or what was this organization=20
??"
I'll leave someone who's more in the =
know to=20
explain Middle Division's situation, but they're a separate company, NOT =
a part of the PRRT&HS.
"Did the=20
car ever get produced ?? What happened to the reservation=20
deposits??"
Middle Division never released the =
car (a=20
P85BR coach), and the rights and the tooling were purchased by Des =
Plaines=20
Hobbies of Des Plaines, Illinois. After much work to upgrade the =
tooling,=20
the car is now close to release - I took a look at test shots and an =
assembled=20
model on display when I was up at the Naperville RPM meet two weeks ago, =
and the=20
model looks fantastic, including the trucks. More info, including =
photos,=20
are at:
I also had sent in a reservation =
deposit years=20
back, and got it returned by Middle Division. I've got no idea =
what the=20
status is of any remaining deposits. You might want =
to contact=20
Des Plaines Hobbies: (847)=20
297-2118, dphobbies@earthlink.net
Ben Hom
I also had sent in a reservation deposit years back,=20= and got it returned by Middle Division. I've got no idea what the stat= us is of any remaining deposits. You might want to contact ... Iah, I am sure Ben was pointing you towards Des Plaines Hobbies in hopes you coul= d get in touch with the owner of Middle Division. I am sure we all realize t= hat any problems that existed prior to Des Plaines acquiring the tooling wou= ld be Nick's own responsibility... I am sure Nick was paid a sum for t= he tooling as it existed and I would have thought that monies would have bee= n returned to all whom were owed, but again I didn't realize anyone was reim= bursed as all I have ever heard was from those claiming to have been "burned= ." Who knows the truth after all these years... Seems to me I had Nick= Seaman's email address ... perhaps someone else can provide it to you priva= tely off list. Greg Martin --part1_a5.41a686b1.2cde82ea_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jerry @ Pennsy Is there a list anywhere of steam era on-line =
locomotive=20
coaling facilities? Pennsy (along with many other railroads) was =
fond of=20
using on-line coaling facilities/service facilities outside major yards =
to=20
relieve congestion and speed service of locomotives on through=20
trains.
My specific question applies to the Buffalo Line =
(Susquehanna Division, Northern Division, etc. during the 40's/early=20
50's). There was an on-line coaling facility at Linden (Nisbit =
Jcn.)=20
across the river from Williamsport & Newberry Yard with two coaling =
towers=20
that was used right up to the end of steam. Looking at mileages =
from=20
Harrisburg/Enola/Northumberland and Buffalo, it appears there should =
have been=20
another one in the vicinity of Keating Summit, but look as I might, I've =
never=20
found evidence of it. I've searched track charts, employee TT's, =
books,=20
etc. There was a short siding at Wrights at the bottom of the west =
(north)=20
slope of Keating hill, presumably used for helpers to wait for =
trains. =20
Might it also have contained an on-line coaling tower? As I =
remember from=20
track charts it was located between the two mainline tracks. This =
seems=20
like a likely location mileage wise.
The only other possibility I've come up with is =
that they=20
used the coaling facility at Emporium since they had to stop there for =
helpers=20
anyway, and it wasn't a major yard, so congestion wouldn't have been a=20
factor. And they serviced the Keating Hill helpers there, so=20
certainly would have had the facilities and capacity. Either =
way,=20
I've never seen reference to it or to locomotives stopping for service =
in that=20
area. Can anyone help? TIA.
Bill Bigler - 4915
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From: "Al Buchan" Big Flats NY Modeling = PRR Renovo=20 & Williamsport = WWII Re: =
The Middle=20
Division and its passenger car model.
The =
PRRT&HS=20
has a Chapter headquartered in Lewistown, PA know as the Middle Division =
Chapter. However, the company that went by the name "Middle Division" of =
New=20
Cumberland, PA, has absolutely no affiliation with the=20
PRRT&HS.
It =
was most=20
unfortunate that the Middle Division's Nick Seaman experienced so much =
trouble=20
in developing the P85BR as the initial preproduction models he had were=20
excellent. I for one had seven kits on reserve. However, after it became =
clear=20
that its release would be greatly delayed I got a complete refund from =
Nick, as=20
did many other people.
I =
suggest you=20
contact Nick to resolve any issues you might have with the=20
company.
Al=20
Buchan
President=20
PRRT&HS
Subj:Re: [PRR] Centipedes on= the main through Dayton? A good question -- much of the Panhandle between Pittsburgh and Indianapolis= was double tracked. However, most freight traffic did not follow the=20= "passenger main" through Dayton, instead being routed through Urbana and Bra= dford on a double tracked segment of the Columbus-Chicago main, then across=20= a single track segment to rejoin the passenger main at New Paris, OH (which=20= is just west of West Manchester, almost on the Indiana state line). Th= is rerouting to the north of Dayton was a high-volume, low-grade, double tra= ck crossing of the Miami Valley without the awful grades in and out of Dayto= n (the valley deepens to a 400 foot depression at Dayton). The Dayton routing carried some (later all) of the first class trains to St.= Louis. Because of its 1850's heritage, the line from Xenia through Da= yton to New Paris never got the kind of rebuild that benefited many other pa= rts of the Pennsy, and much of its primeval grades and curves remained, alon= g with infrequent and short passing sidings. As a veteran PRR engineer= says, "If you got out of Xenia with more than two K4s and 16 cars, you were= in trouble before you reached Dayton". You can really see the difference in traffic (and investment) on the part of= the line from Columbus to Xenia. This line segment carried traffic fo= r both Dayton and Cincinnati. Granted, this is easier terrain (Ohio's=20= "Central Glacial Till", but the land still rises and falls, and yet the rail= road was straight, double tracked, and has only minor grades. There we= re even a few road overpasses/underpasses (not that common for southwest Ohi= o). You could stand on the station platform at Xenia and see the difference -- t= he double track line from Columbus simply continued straight past the statio= n and became the "Little Miami" to Cincinnati. By comparison, the sing= le track Dayton line torqued off north on a fairly tight curve.  = ; &nb= sp; Rick T= ipton - Louisville KY &nbs= p; &n= bsp; Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) &nbs= p; &n= bsp; And Remembering PRR Lines West --part1_1d5.13e198d8.2cdf8eb0_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walter Prusick" When the E8 locomotives arrived did the =
PRR=20
continue to use the E7s on the Blue Ribbon trains? In other words, =
where=20
the E8s and E7s used interchangeably or were the E8s =
preferred?
Thanks,
Jeff
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From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 22:33:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [PRR] Aerotrain/Kemtron
Lists,
Need some help here. When Varney released the Aerotrain back in the
mid 50's, Kemtron came out with an upgrade kit that included brass
castings for the truck journels for the cars and Loco. I am in need of
just 1 of these castings for the cars. I just want to barrow it for a
little while so you will get it back.. I want to try to duplicate it in
Resin. If you can help, just drop me an email.....Thanks, Gary
Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art
Work!
PRR K4s Loco Pics:
http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/
PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.:
http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html
and......
PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models:
http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html
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From: "Walter Prusick" Took a shot of the BLI T1 in action on =
the test=20
loop at Milwaukee Trainfest. RELAX guys, its a preproduction =
sample, don't=20
worry about the mismatch between tender and loco height. Also, the =
Deluxe=20
Green Locomotive Paint is a LOT darker in person than the=20
photo indicates. Unfortunately, the sample didn't have the T1 =
chip---not sure which loco chip they borrowed, though I don't think it =
was the=20
N&W A.
Rough Estimate for the J1 delivery is =
Summer 2004=20
(any sooner and it would be divorce city for me---with all the others in =
the=20
near pipeline).
Bob Zoeller
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From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 23:59:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI PRR T1
Bob,
2 questions on what you saw on the T1. Did they articulate it or is
there an option to run both ways? Also, what color is the lettering?
Just can't tell with photos.....Thanks, Gary
Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art
Work!
PRR K4s Loco Pics:
http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/
PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.:
http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html
and......
PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models:
http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html
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From: "Bob Zoeller" Guys, Walt and all, The LL P1K is an excellent example of a Canadian CF16-44. But it is no= t that far off from the US production FM CF16-44. There are some probl= ems to over come to make it shine as a PRR model. On of the most difficult a= nd a compromise you may likely accept as is the truck sideframes. They are d= istinctively different if you look close. Also the PRR blanked out one= of the fans on the roof, this was a problem with the AHM/Rivarossi (includi= ng the very nice O Scale offering) but can be overcome. Walt, it just=20= depends on your level of acceptable compromises and you willingness to overc= ome them. They are very well detailed and can make up into "brass-like" offe= rings. I have some for my PRR Fleet. Greg Martin --part1_60.379d5800.2ce08f82_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jerry @ Pennsy -----=20 Original Message ----- From: "Jerry @ Pennsy" <jerry@pennsyrr.com> It is truly possible that the flash of a camera = brings out=20 the pigment that adds the "dash of green" to = DGLE. Jerry: In a=20 private email to Greg, I discussed this further. The lighting in=20 the new Wisconsin State Fairgrounds building is very bright. No = flash required.The reflections you see are from the overhead = lights. =20 Under bright lights on our club layout, even the Genesis units appear = "blue-green". Also, my Nikon Coolpix 880's only demerit in a 36 page=20 favorable review was a skew of color to the red side, which also = affects=20 "black" in ways unpredictable. I did not color correct the T1 = photo in=20 Photo Shop. In person, I liked the color of the BLI locos and was = surprised=20 at how green it turned out in the photo. But as I pointed out to = Greg, my=20 freight steamers are painted 4 parts grimy black,one "Brunswick"=20 green. Bob Zoeller Hi all;
We listen to all your suggestions, and have acted on = the majority. Of course, we are limited on the types of articles = we can do based on actual submissions by authors, but we have an = interesting line-up. And we can always use more articles from our = readership! In the vein of keeping modeling projects = approachable, Jim Hunter's fine article on the Bowser GS was just what = is needed for those cars. Al and Lin's article on headlights was very = informative, and I appreciated understanding the "why" and = "what" related to the PRR rules. So, what can we do to make you happy? What can = we do to make it better? Are we going into enough detail? = Too much? Are the techniques hard to follow? Are we = forgetting important points? Let us know how we did. Your feedback is VERY = important to us. Elden Gatwood
Hi Elden,
From the very quick scan (its ten to =
midnight here)=20
through it looks pretty good!
FYI the BLI GG1 was also reviewed in =
Continental=20
Modeller in the November 2003 issue.
Patrick Grace
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triplets came in (in 1959) after they pulled the Red Arrow off east of=20
Pittsburgh and combined the Detroit coaches and sleepers with The Spirit =
of St.=20
Louis. They did the same thing with the Cincinnati trains =
and some=20
others in the great consolidation of Winter 1958-59 which totally =
decimated the=20
great red (a.k.a. Blue Ribbon) fleet. Trains became ungodly long =
with lots=20
of head end cars on each train. Only the Broadway and General ran =
without=20
X-29s etc. They each had an RPO car for a few more =
years.
Also=20
with all the steam leaks on the head end cars it took 5 or 6 steam =
generators to=20
push enough of the stuff back to the coaches and =
sleepers.
------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C3A835.8DA21A90-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Question on steam generators: Did the PRR rely
solely on steam generators of their A and B units, or did they buy and/or
rebuild separate steam generator cars?
The reason I ask is that I've seen pictures of other RRs
which did rebuild some ex-freight cars to accomplish the task, but have never
seen a picture of any PRR car such as that.
Thanks in advance.
Zak
"Norton Anti-Virus is used for all outgoing mail." --Boundary_(ID_xzQUrEtdjQoR3eg2v6Bj9g)-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" The=20
PRR never owned any steam generator cars. The CN and others relied =
heavily=20
on them. As a matter of fact, one of the great blunders of all =
time in=20
railroading (IMO) was when Amtrak did not take over the existing =
railroad steam=20
generator cars (1971) and instead bought the SDP-40fs with steam =
generators=20
knowing full well that they would become obsolete in a short =
while. There=20
were enough steam generator cars in existence to serve all the Amtrak =
trains=20
that needed them.
No=20
further comments on Amtrak blunders forthcoming.
WDV
------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C3A855.613BC760-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:21:45 -0500 From: Zak Bill,
Great. Thanks for that info! I didn't think
the PRR had any, but . . . as the legend goes, "one of everything".
;-)
Zak
"Norton Anti-Virus is used for all outgoing mail." --Boundary_(ID_FM/Zd7RGleaB6B947ODKiQ)-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:33:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] E7 or E8? From: Jerry Britton No,=20
the power car contained a Hercules Diesel Generator set, nothing =
more. All=20
the Keystone coaches and power car were retrofitted with steam =
trainlines and=20
steam connectors so that they could "mu" with standard coach and head =
end=20
equipment.
WDV
------=_NextPart_000_008C_01C3A85A.39927B50-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Life-Like C-Liners Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:33:46 +0000 Greg Martin wrote: "On of the most difficult and a compromise you may likely accept as is the truck sideframes. They are distinctively different if you look close." A-Line once made C-Line sideframes, though I don't remember if they were scale or if they were designed to fit the Athearn 4-axle wheelbase. "Walt, it just depends on your level of acceptable compromises and you willingness to overcome them. They are very well detailed and can make up into "brass-like" offerings." They certainly beat upgrading the old AHM model! (Now to find something to do with the stash of AHM C-Line shells and Athearn GP-35 underframes...) Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:44:36 -0500 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] MDC RS-3 motor mount issues Doug writes: > Hello lists, > I'm building an MDC Alco RS-3, and I'm running into an issue I've never seen before. > The motor mounts aren't especially rigid, and they let the motor/flywheel assembly flex just enough to contact the frame at random (and aggravating) intervals.< Doug, you didn't tell us which version of the MDC RS-3 you have but I would guess that it the new "P2K- like" drive? I believe that the motor mounts are the same as the Athearn or at least like the Athearn? as they are for the original FA/B-2's? They imported version of these mounts were more pliable than the Athearn. I would try to replace them with the Athearn FIRST. Also, check to make sure your mounts are firmly pressed through the mounting hole in the frame... Yah, I know you already did this but still good to check. Years ago there were a batch of mounts that Irv bought from over sea that had this same issue, he changed to a stiffer motor mount. > I considered grinding down some of the frame around the flywheels for clearance, but the problem is mostly vertical, not side to side.< Also check to make sure the drive is not binding as well, this can cause the otor to lurch toward the truck. Before you go much further are you converting this to DCC? email me off line. > I'm currently considering throwing out the motor mounts and mounting the motor with styrene and silicone caulk for a more fixed approach. I've already replaced the lower motor clip (with it's springy metal protrusions) with a plain one that has wire soldered for electrical connectivity.< Okay now we are getting somewhere... Replace the lower clip with the original... These springy metal protrusions are there to apply upward pressure and keep the motor mount stiff. Then as the motor torks the movement is surpressed. You can still hard wire the lower motor mount but the springs resolve the problem. >I have a couple of possible solutions, but has anyone run into this before, and what did you do? > Thanks in advance! > Doug< Have fun with it Doug... Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Hi List, I’m in need of decals for a PRR scale test car =
in HO. Anyone
know if these are available? Pete Reinhold Mark,
One of the earliest stories written by Andy Sperando, Model Railroading's current editor, was a short prototype article about Pennsy Centipedes published in one of the 1961 issues. The brief story talks about downgraded Centipedes could be found plying the Panhandle lines west of Columbus. The story, if I remember right, had a picture of a Cenetipede somewhere in Darke County (Bradford and Union City) or Preble County (West Manchester and New Paris) in Ohio on the Richmond & Convington Rwy. connecting the double-tracked Columbus-Chicago Panhandle "frieght line" at Bradford on the Darke-Miami county line with the Little Miami's Dayton & Western, the Panhandle's "passenger line" at New Paris or on the Panhandle's doube-tracked main between New Paris and Richmond, Ind., (Wayne County).
(Still recovering from THE DIVORCE, my once immaculatly organized and alphabetized magazine collection is a hopeless mess. Most recently it carried out an unsuccessful assassination attempt on me as I parked my bicycle next to its hapjazardly stacked boxes. I was briefly buried but emerged unscathed.)
I am aware of two other pictures of Centipedes on the Little Miami both, if I remember right, were taken circa 1961. One is probably the aforementioned shot of a Centipede at Dayton's Union Station. The other shows a Cenetipede passing the Xenia "station," as the the 1880s freight station and tower were called after the Little Miami & Columbus & Xenia passenger station was razed in 1955.
Rick, I don't think you'll find a shot of a Centipede in the Queen City for the same reason I'll never find my Golconda, a shot of a T-1 outside of CUT. The turntable at the (I'm hoping I remember this right) Pemberton enginie house was too short to accomodate either the 140+ -foot-long T-1 4-4-4-4 "permanently" connected to a coast-coast tender with a drawbar and similarly connected A-A Centiplede lash-ups. Several seasoned SPFs (that's SERIOUS Pennsy Fans, ya'll) have assured me that while the drawbar could be dropped and the two pieces of each lash-up truned separately, they didn't like to do it and it wasn't done often, if at all. I, for one, have yet to see a photo of anything larger than a K-4 Pacific on the Cincinnati-Xenia line although I am fairly sure it could accomodate M-1 Mountains. The Wye in Xenia at the northern end of this line, just west of Greene Tower guarding the diamonds of the B&O's Ironton
Secondary, was large enough to accommodate the M1s.
Tom V.
Mark Tweeddale <gandydancer4@mchsi.com> wrote: My name is Mark Tweeddale and I grew up in West Manchester as a child from Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard --0-1317100472-1068663620=:24916-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "mike brown" I am CERTAIN there =
were no=20
Centipedes operating west of Altoona in 1961. In the years =
preceding 1958=20
the Centipedes were used as east slope helpers. In 1958 they were =
stored=20
at E. Altoona. In December 1958 they were re-activated and used on =
VERY=20
low priority trains on the Middle Division and 2 sets were assigned to=20
Philadelphia as helpers from S. Philadelphia to =
Paoli.
So the photo in =
Ohio was=20
unquestionably not taken in 1961. Maybe 1951.
WDV
Mark,
One of the earliest stories =
written by Andy=20
Sperando, Model Railroading's current editor, was a short =
prototype=20
article about Pennsy Centipedes published in one of the 1961 issues. The =
brief=20
story talks about downgraded Centipedes could be found plying the =
Panhandle=20
lines west of Columbus. The story, if I remember right, had a picture of =
a=20
Cenetipede somewhere in Darke County (Bradford and =
Union City) or=20
Preble County (West Manchester and New Paris) in Ohio on =
the Richmond &=20
Convington Rwy. connecting the double-tracked Columbus-Chicago =
Panhandle=20
"frieght line" at Bradford on the Darke-Miami county line with the =
Little=20
Miami's Dayton & Western, the Panhandle's "passenger line" at =
New Paris=20
or on the Panhandle's doube-tracked main between New Paris and Richmond, =
Ind.,=20
(Wayne County).
(Still recovering from THE DIVORCE, my =
once=20
immaculatly organized and alphabetized magazine collection is a =
hopeless=20
mess. Most recently it carried out an unsuccessful assassination attempt =
on me=20
as I parked my bicycle next to its hapjazardly stacked boxes. I was =
briefly=20
buried but emerged unscathed.)
I am aware of two other pictures of =
Centipedes on=20
the Little Miami both, if I remember right, were taken circa 1961. One =
is=20
probably the aforementioned shot of a Centipede at Dayton's Union =
Station. The=20
other shows a Cenetipede passing the Xenia "station," as the =
the 1880s=20
freight station and tower were called after the Little Miami & =
Columbus=20
& Xenia passenger station was razed in 1955.
Rick, I don't think you'll find a shot =
of a=20
Centipede in the Queen City for the same reason I'll never find my =
Golconda, a=20
shot of a T-1 outside of CUT. The turntable at the (I'm hoping I =
remember this=20
right) Pemberton enginie house was too short to accomodate either =
the 140+=20
-foot-long T-1 4-4-4-4 "permanently" connected to a coast-coast =
tender with=20
a drawbar and similarly connected A-A Centiplede=20
lash-ups. Several seasoned SPFs (that's SERIOUS Pennsy=20
Fans, ya'll) have assured me that while the drawbar could be =
dropped and=20
the two pieces of each lash-up truned separately, they =
didn't like to=20
do it and it wasn't done often, if at all. I, for one, have yet to =
see a=20
photo of anything larger than a K-4 Pacific on the Cincinnati-Xenia line =
although I am fairly sure it could accomodate M-1 Mountains. The Wye in =
Xenia at=20
the northern end of this line, just west of Greene Tower guarding the =
diamonds=20
of the B&O's Ironton Secondary, was large enough to =
accommodate the=20
M1s.
Tom V.
Mark Tweeddale=20 <gandydancer4@mchsi.com> wrote: My name is Mark Tweeddale and I grew up in West Manchester as = a child=20 from Bill, in the absence of any firm data to the contrary, I stand corrected. However, I am positive that Sperando's short article on Centipedes was in one of the 12 1961 issues of Model Railroader.
Youse udder gize! Enough of the sarcasm about turning an A-A lash-up. In practice wasn't one of the units more often used as the lead unit to the point that spares may have been scrounged off of the usual trailing unit.
Just somethughts
Bill Volkmer <bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com> wrote:
Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard --0-1852583503-1068753638=:94185-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:10:01 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Centipedes on the Panhandle From: Jerry Britton Message: 6 = ; &nb= sp; Rick T= ipton - Louisville KY &nbs= p; &n= bsp; Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) &nbs= p; &n= bsp; And Remembering PRR Lines West --part1_152.26c942eb.2ce58938_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Jerry, and all, Stock cars was something I looked at strictly= from the photos of same on the PRR. The following is a composite of the roadnames gleaned= : MoPac-----------NP-----------GN--------CRI&P CMStP&P-------M-K-T-------T&P---------IC FRISCO---------NKP----------GOTHAM[something] Was taken aback that none of the larger western carrier names were in evidence. [ no SP or UP ] I have no credible answer as to why; surmised that= brokerage reshipped the critters in what ever available eastern lines cars were on hand. Either way, this is enough variety to fill my modest nee= ds. Hope there are others who have more authortative records than scanning the pix,; it has potetnial. If this helps, then I have done one thin= g right today. The teenage daughter will be in awe!!! Since the UP and SP did not have tracks into Chicago, I would not expect to=20= see large numbers of livestock cars for those roads. The UP eastern te= rminus for livestock was South Omaha stockyards. Upto 20,000 head of l= ivestock were delivered her daily. Most were slaughtered nearby. = The ATSF, MP, KCS, and others terminated in the Kansas City Stockyard= s (1900 -- 100,000 head of stock per day). Most of this livestock was=20= dressed in Kansas City. On the other hand the roads observed in PRR trains, terminated in Chicago.&n= bsp; So it would be more likely to see those cars on PRR rails. One co= uld thus speculate the the beef being served in the East originated in the N= orthern Plains for the most part. Rich Orr --part1_27.4b349b2f.2ce5ada5_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Viv brice" I have one photo of stock cars being switched into the catt=
le pens at Ephrata, Pa.. The cars were received from the Pennsy at Har=
risburg (Enola or Harrisburg yard??) The stock came up from Texas=
. Add to the road name list of foriegn stock cars on the PRR tha=
t of the Santa Fe, D&RGW and Rock Island. Many MoPac cars in this=20=
block. These photos were given to me years ago by my grandfather who w=
as the station agent at Ephrata, Pa., where the stock was unloaded, sent to=20=
local pastures for fattening then off to the processing plant for eastern re=
staurants.
This may have been the operation of the King Ranch, an operation=
that lasted on the rails into the early sixties. After that it was ha=
ndled by much faster trucking; I know it lasted into the mid-eigh=
ties.
Evan Leisey RCT&= ;HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 Approx 1 year ago some one on the list was gracious =
enough to=20
send me copies of a manual that detailed exactly how to secure loads =
such as=20
steel girders, beams, columns, etc for shipment on flat cars and=20
gons. The manual tells you exactly what dimension =
lumber to=20
use (based upon the weight of the load) to fasten the loads as well as =
what=20
types steel rods, angle iron and even what kind of nails to=20
use.
Using the photocopied pages from the manual I =
scratch built a=20
large steel beam for a load and have built all the cribbing, support =
lumber,=20
angle iron. Problem is the pages do not identify what the name and =
revision of the manual is. Who published it and in what =
year. The=20
model is almost complete, photos have been taken and I have an =
article=20
started to hopefully be picked up by some magazine. I'd like to =
include a=20
lot of information from this technical manual but without the =
identifying info=20
it'll be rather difficult.
Would the list member that sent me the info please =
contact me=20
or anyone else for that matter that can help out. Thanks for the =
help,=20
again!
Kris
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3ABD5.C9BD0E60--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.
!!NEXT MESSAGE!!
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 21:30:50 -0800
From: Peter Weiglin MY guess is you probably have copies of pages from =
"Loading of=20
Commodities On Open Top Cars" published at various times by the AAR =
Operations=20
and Maintenance Department, Mechanical Division.
Frank Brua
Approx 1 year ago some one on the list was =
gracious enough=20
to send me copies of a manual that detailed exactly how to secure =
loads such=20
as steel girders, beams, columns, etc for shipment on flat cars =
and=20
gons. The manual tells you exactly what dimension =
lumber=20
to use (based upon the weight of the load) to fasten the loads as well =
as what=20
types steel rods, angle iron and even what kind of nails to=20
use.
Using the photocopied pages from the manual I =
scratch built=20
a large steel beam for a load and have built all the cribbing, support =
lumber,=20
angle iron. Problem is the pages do not identify what the name =
and=20
revision of the manual is. Who published it and in what =
year. The=20
model is almost complete, photos have been taken and I have an =
article=20
started to hopefully be picked up by some magazine. I'd like to =
include=20
a lot of information from this technical manual but without the =
identifying=20
info it'll be rather difficult.
Would the list member that sent me the info please =
contact=20
me or anyone else for that matter that can help out. Thanks for =
the=20
help, again!
Kris
------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C3AC16.147B78C0--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.
!!NEXT MESSAGE!!
From: "Tammra Link" Listers: Does anyone =
have any=20
information like drawings and or photos of the ashpit gantries used at =
the=20
Canton and Crestline facilities? Part of the one at Crestline can be =
seen on=20
Gary Mittner's website. Here is the link: http://prrsteam.p=
ennsyrr.com/images/k45373.jpg
Thanks in advance
Matt Link
----- Original =
Message -----=20
From: Kevin =
Lehman
To: r d=20
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 10:05 AM
Subject: [Railfanning_Delmarva] Top 15 Reasons Railfanning =
is better=20
than Deer Hunting 15. Kids don't cry BAMBI when you bring a = "trophy"=20 home. &n= bsp; =20 14. Wife wouldn't object too much to have "trophy shot" over dining room = table.=20 13. No taxidermist fee for "mounting" your best trophy shot. 12. = Trains=20 can be shot all year long. 11. A warm car beats a tree stand any = day.=20 10. Train lovers don't get mad at you for shooting "Thomas The Tank = Engine".=20 9. You can't use a scanner to tell when deer are getting close. = 8. No=20 arguments when two people shoot the same train at the same time. 7. = No=20 boring Deer Hunting stories. 6. Nobody cares if you use a railroad = crossing=20 sign to "sight in" your camera. 5. Three words: "Hunting License = Fee".=20 4. SD90MAC's don't need to be field dressed. 3. Working models = of deer?=20 Yeah, right. 2. There's no limit on how many trains you're allowed = to shoot.=20 1. Unless they're really dumb, your buddies won't mistake you for = The=20 Southwest Chief. Please visit my homepages The = Del-Mar-Va Model Railroad Club Website http://com= munity.webtv.net/PCRR4LIFE/TheDelMarVaModel Kevin=20 S Lehman`s Train & Railroad Equipment Pictures http:= //community.webtv.net/KEVINLEHMAN/KevinSLehmansTrain/ Owner=20 of Railfanning_Delmarva Yahoo Group http://groups= .yahoo.com/group/Railfanning_Delmarva ------------------------= --------- Do=20 you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product=20 search [Non-text portions of this message have been=20 removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for = your HP,=20 Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 = or more=20 to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking= .com/l.asp?cid=3D5511 http://= us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/8ZCslB/TM ----------------= -----------------------------------------------------~-> To=20 learn more about this group visit: http://groups= .yahoo.com/group/Railfanning_Delmarva To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Railfann= ing_Delmarva-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com or=20 to go to and change your settings to web only: http://groups= .yahoo.com/group/Railfanning_Delmarva=20 and you won`t have to resubscribe later Your use of Yahoo! = Groups is=20 subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/ter= ms/=20 Tom V wrote... Pemberton sounds like some place in NJ -- Pennsy's longtime Cincinnati engin= e terminal was Pendleton. I have no idea where that name originated, b= ut there's strong evidence the Pennsy's predecessor Little Miami terminated=20= here in 1843 (because of fear of locomotives downtown). Much more in the Keystone this spring, including T1's at CUT's engine termin= al.  = ; &nb= sp; Rick T= ipton - Louisville KY &nbs= p; &n= bsp; Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) &nbs= p; &n= bsp; And Remembering PRR Lines West --part1_46.41953b94.2ce92ee9_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 19:00:14 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Re: Altoona roundhouses List, Although this is old by now,there were three roundhouses from 17th St( or Bridge St as it was once called) down to the 12th St foot bridge. As Dan Cupper mentioned that two were for motive power I think the third may have been the Frt car shop at that time when it was the Altoona Machine shops. This would have been before they expanded east of todays 7th St bridge to build the psgr car shops,frt car shop and Juniata . There was also another roundhouse at approx 2nd St Altoona which was a freight car shop. That foundation area can still be seen today from Chestnut Ave. So including the E. Altoona roundhouse there were at least 5 roundhouses in Altoona,not all at the same time and not all used for locomotives. Pat McKinney [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 19:00:14 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Altoona roundhouses --part1_19f.1d2d3e48.2ce9698e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List, Although this is old by now,there were three roundhouses from 17th St( or Bridge St as it was once called) down to the 12th St foot bridge. As Dan Cupper mentioned that two were for motive power I think the third may have been the Frt car shop at that time when it was the Altoona Machine shops. This would have been before they expanded east of todays 7th St bridge to build the psgr car shops,frt car shop and Juniata . There was also another roundhouse at approx 2nd St Altoona which was a freight car shop. That foundation area can still be seen today from Chestnut Ave. So including the E. Altoona roundhouse there were at least 5 roundhouses in Altoona,not all at the same time and not all used for locomotives. Pat McKinney --part1_19f.1d2d3e48.2ce9698e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List, Although this is old=20= by now,there were three roundhouses from 17th St( or Bridge St as it was onc= e called) down to the 12th St foot bridge. As Dan Cupper mentioned that two=20= were for motive power I think the third may have been the Frt car shop at th= at time when it was the Altoona Machine shops. This would have been before t= hey expanded east of todays 7th St bridge to build the psgr car shops,frt ca= r shop and Juniata . There was also another roundhouse at approx 2nd St Alto= ona which was a freight car shop. That foundation area can still be seen tod= ay from Chestnut Ave. So including the E. Altoona roundhouse there were at l= east 5 roundhouses in Altoona,not all at the same time and not all used for=20= locomotives. Pat McKinney --part1_19f.1d2d3e48.2ce9698e_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walter Prusick" Written by "Moi"
WDV
------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C3ACE7.C911B6B0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:39:09 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Photos of New Alkem Scale Models Products From: Jerry Britton By the way, Johnny Cash, my hero, ended up appropriately at #1- Sooooeeee! Tom Hayden --=====================_1363122==_.ALT-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Rich Orr --part1_196.22b42181.2cead4f4_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" --part1_17c.235f55c4.2ced1388_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Kr01a@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:01:20 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] LV at Metuchen If I had been a train fan on my return home from Korea in '52, I might now be able to contribute some first hand info on the Camp Kilmer discussion. A bunch of us were shipped from Seattle to Camp Kilmer in Dec. 1952 by train just in time to make it home two days before Christmas. As you can imagine, with other things on my mind, I have only very vague memories of Kilmer. We had passes over Christmas and then were discharged on 12/31/52 to reenter civilian life. I'm a new member of this list that grew up and later lived in various areas of the SW Philly suburbs (among lots of other places) and remember the B&O, PRR/PC and RDG from the time I was able to talk walks with my grandfather until I moved from the Malvern/Paoli area to Kansas City. I spent 1971 thru mid-1974 commuting on the MP54s and Metroliners from Paoli to Philly for further connections over to Somerdale, NJ. It was that commute that finally persuaded me to move to the Midwest (g) I still have a couple of the monthly PC trip tickets in a scrapbook. I enjoy the list info and did model the PRR in HO scale but not to the level of detail that I read so much about on here. Thanks for the enjoyment of being a bystander to so much information! Ed "Mac" MacDonald Kansas City, MO (which has lots of big trains still running) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:43:28 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Survey Q&A From: Jerry Britton
That's correct -- Wilkes-Barre to Philadelphia via this routing: PRR-Nescopeck- Tomhicken-LV(Hazleton)-New Boston Jct.-PRR-Pottsville-Reading-Pottstown-Phoenixville-Norristown-Philadelphia. There were two trains -- the Mountaineer and the Anthracite Express. The Anthracite Express left Wilkes-Barre in the morning and arrived in Philly early afternoon, then returned, leaving Philly late afternoon and arriving back in WB just before 11 pm. The Mountaineer was on the oppostie schedule -- it left Philly in the morning and got to Wilkes-Barre in mid-afternoon. It then left less than an hour later and arrived back in Philly a little before 10 pm. Service ended in August 1941. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. --------------080304040305030704050307-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:37:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] LV at Metuchen Hmm, a field investigation in the Metuchen area may be in order. As Bill noted, the Durham Woods apartment complex has obliterated the northern end of the RDG-PRR connection, but the southern segment might still exist, and who knows, along the LV ROW some evidence of a wye connecting RDG-LV (it would probably vanish into the Durham Woods apartments, or maybe under the I-287 right of way). The western end of the LV line, the end approaching the junction with the LV main line at South Plainfield, had track, at least about two years ago anyway. The track kind of disappears into the mud, I think well before reaching the bridge over the RDG. This is a very, umm, interesting area of New Jersey; there are streets that if you go down you will find lead to no exit in any direction, a bunch of people and junk yard dogs staring at you, and chain link fences surrounding the district -- outside of which are new condos and squeaky-clean industrial parks. I was in a commuter van pool about five years ago that tried a "short cut" through there and beat a hasty retreat. The bridge abutments for the Middlesex Ave bridge that carried the LV-PRR connection are certainly still in place. I guess we still don't know the main use of the connection, unless it was for Camp Kilmer. But I am pretty sure the PRR had its own line into Kilmer from the Edison area further west. Too bad Ed didn't have his eyes open when his troop train pulled in! Well, I guess soldiers have to grab sleep when they can! John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:32:54 EST Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg Electrified Bridge -------------------------------1069291974 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What was the name of the bridge in Harrisburg that allow electric locos to reach Enola Yard? Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1069291974 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What was the name of the bridge in Harrisburg that allow electric locos=
to reach Enola Yard?
Evan Leisey RCT&= ;HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ If you=20
look through the Pennsy Diesel Years series, (Don't remember which =
Volume) you=20
will see pictures I took at Altoona of the funeral trains leaving =
town. =20
The dead steamers were interspersed with scrapper hopper=20
cars.
WDV
------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C3AF53.180A7230-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 23:55:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] PRR-C&NW-UP Through Sleepers. Hello List, Can anyone tell me the names of UP's "Pacific" series (Budd 10-6) sleeper cars that were assigned to the PRR for New York to Los Angeles service PRIOR to 1952? I'm looking for car names in the two tone grey paint scheme. Thanks in advance, Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 01:56:11 EST Subject: [PRR] PS18 sleeper -------------------------------1069397771 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has this car or car sides for it ever been done in HO? I would like to model the City of Reading as shown in the book PRR Color Guide to Frt. and Pass. Equipment. Thank you, Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1069397771 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has this car or car sides for it ever been done in HO? I w=
ould like to model the City of Reading as shown in the book PRR Color Gu=
ide to Frt. and Pass. Equipment.
Thank you,
Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&= amp;HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ Listers, Since the list has been quiet, I'll throw this = out. Walther's has announce a Santa Fe Super Chief with a ABBA = set of special number Athearn Genesis F units. Will they do a PRR = train (the Broadway, Congo) and what will pull it P2000 E's, BLI = G? Chris Chany ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3B06D.79FF6390-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 15:14:07 -0800 (PST) From: MICHAEL MERCURE PRR List,
Thanks for the help on this car. Doing a little furth=
er reading it appears there were 142 of these built but the text is unclear=20=
if these were all for the Pennsy or total built? If all for the Pennsy=
, then I have no idea of how vast the Pennsy's pass. system was.
Evan Leisey RCT&= ;HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ Chris and the List:
The answer is YES!! In all likelihood, this endeavor by Walthers is =
only=20
the beginning. I will predict that they will do the following:
PRR Broadway Limited
NYC 20th Century
SP Daylight Limiting
GN Empire Builder
Expect to see other trains for UP, B&O, C&O, IC, =
etc.
These train sets will be limited run and will probably be in=20
the $700-$900 range. I think that it will be worth it!!
Please note that everything that I have posted above is my =
speculation=20
only; I don=92t have any inside info from Walthers. BUT, in the past few =
years I=20
have wondered and speculated that passenger train "sets" were a strong=20
possibility. It looks like it is now becoming true!
As Homer Simpson would =
say: WHOA-WHO!!!!
Ted Andrews
(waiting for the Broadway in Indiana)
Subject: Herron PRR DVD's Frank, First of all, I'll admit that Jim Herron is a friend of mine. So I kno= w that what Herron Video puts out is a labor of love. Second, I have y= et to buy my first railroad DVD -- I am still watching my VHS tapes. That said, my opinion of the Glory series has been that they are of the high= est quality, and are the ones I find myself getting out first. Natural= ly Pennsylvania Glory No. 2 is my favorite, with all the action around Colum= bus Ohio. Lately I've also been enjoying the Donald J. Krofta series,=20= which cover northern and central Ohio. And yes, I even enjoy the NYC o= fferings! All these make the hours on an exercise bike almost tolerabl= e. Hope this helps a bit...  = ; &nb= sp; Rick T= ipton - Louisville KY &nbs= p; &n= bsp; Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) &nbs= p; &n= bsp; And Remembering PRR Lines West --part1_62.37df9a88.2cf134b5_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 16:52:51 EST Subject: [PRR] Post-1966 PRR paint is like a different model --part1_aa.25623100.2cf134b3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/22/03 10:06:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Reminder -- Surveys Due Today by 5 PM > From: "Jerry Britton" Subject: Reminder -- Surveys Du= e Today by 5 PM Jerry and friends, My ballot is already in. Thanks for the opportunity to participate. Was talking about this voting with a friend who, like me, is interested in v= ery late PRR modeling. He bemoaned the tendency of model manufacturers= to offer engines only in the as-delivered paint (and accessorization). = ; I commented that this is a simple matter of detailing, painting, and decal= ing, but he countered with the observation that the market as a whole WILL N= OT BUY KITS and WILL NOT DECAL ROAD NUMBERS -- if it isn't complete, it gets= left on the shelf at the hobby shop. I'll offer as a general comment that I think he is right -- he has correctly= described the market in the new millienium. But looking at the bright= side, this means there's an untapped market segment waiting to be served.&n= bsp; This is especially good news for the supplier who has to have "six pain= t jobs" in order to bring out a model -- Pennsylvania Railroad is two of the= m. This unserved segment starts around 1961, with the advent of the bi= g orange numbers, and spreads to many more locos with the system renumbering= of 1966. The late PRR E7/E8 with single stripe & large numbers on= the flank, the F7 with same, the switchers with big numbers -- all are an o= pportunity for P2K and others to sell new products using the same tooling. One caveat -- over their service lives, locomotives change character -- they= will pick up grab irons, MU connections, etc. At the same time, they=20= may change footboards, air horns, and radio antennae. So serving this=20= market will not be as easy as finding the as-built drawings and ordering som= e builder photos; this will require prototype research -- or retaining a pro= totype consultant FOR EACH RAILROAD and perhaps FOR EACH TIME PERIOD. Still, guys, it's another market, and it can be yours. Go for it...  = ; &nb= sp; Rick T= ipton - Louisville KY &nbs= p; &n= bsp; Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) &nbs= p; &n= bsp; And Remembering PRR Lines West --part1_aa.25623100.2cf134b3_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Pattirobpatti@cs.com Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 17:04:12 EST Subject: [PRR] Consist Info for Tr. and 570/571 & 574/575 Does anyone have specific consist info for the Buffalo Day Express/Washington & New York Express and the Dominion Express between Buffalo and Harrisburg for the early 1950's? I am interested in the assigned sleepers' names, if any, as well as the specific type of "reclining seat coaches" (P70K? P70G? P85B?) in these trains. Thanks, Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Dayna & Randy Williamson www.trainstuffllc.com --=====================_481825890==.ALT-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 21:20:01 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR: Off Subject - RTR Models -------------------------------1069554001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PRR List, A large portion of the "model railroaders" in the hobby have gone to buying only ready-to-run and ready-built models. At a hobby shop were I work part-time, one of our regular customers bought around three dozen reefers then hired one of the employees to renumber the cars at almost half the cost of the car. The cars were Intermountain -- not a cheap proposition in my book. Customers have even offered amounts around twenty-five dollars to add cab numbers on locomotives. Bottom line, today's hobby population does not have enough time to build AND run trains preferring spend their time running them. Plus there is obviously enough expendable cash amongst today's model railroaders to support this style. Fortunately some of the manufacturers realize there is still a healthy kit market and offer limited runs of kits along with their RTR models. Whatever happened to the predictions from the late 50's and early 60's where future advances in technology will allow more leisure time? Or is that added time being spent on the job?? PRR List,
A large portion of the "model railroaders" in the hob=
by have gone to buying only ready-to-run and ready-built models. At a=20=
hobby shop were I work part-time, one of our regular customers bought around=
three dozen reefers then hired one of the employees to renumber the cars at=
almost half the cost of the car. The cars were Intermountain -- not a=
cheap proposition in my book.
Customers have even offered amounts around twenty-five dollars t=
o add cab numbers on locomotives.
Bottom line, today's hobby population does not have enough time=20=
to build AND run trains preferring spend their time running them.  =
;Plus there is obviously enough expendable cash amongst today's model railro=
aders to support this style.
Fortunately some of the manufacturers realize there is stil=
l a healthy kit market and offer limited runs of kits along with their RTR m=
odels.
Whatever happened to the predictions from the late 50's and earl=
y 60's where future advances in technology will allow more leisure time?&nbs=
p; Or is that added time being spent on the job?? <G>
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