From: Prr6100@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 11:47:02 EST Subject: [PRR] M-1 -------------------------------1067705222 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone heard about the Broadway Limited M-1's lately? Are they still on time to be released in November or has it been moved back? Thanks. -------------------------------1067705222 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anyone heard abo= ut the Broadway Limited M-1's lately? Are they still on time  to be rel= eased in November or has it been moved back? Thanks.<= /HTML> -------------------------------1067705222-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach" Subject: [PRR] Looking for Walthers Pennsy 4-4-2 Stock 932-6707 Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:18:59 -0500

Has anyone seen any of these? I finally decided to pick one up and I think I may have waited too long. I have searched, but most everyone seems to be out.
Thanks,
Eric
 
--- Eric Lauterbach
--- ealauterbach@earthlink.net
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
 

----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach" Subject: RE: [PRR] M-1 Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:23:53 -0500
It is now listed as being shipped in December on BLI's website. I am getting two of these and hope they are here before Christmas.
Eric
 
--- Eric Lauterbach
--- ealauterbach@earthlink.net
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Sent: 11/1/03 6:47:02 AM
Subject: [PRR] M-1

Has anyone heard about the Broadway Limited M-1's lately? Are they still on time  to be released in November or has it been moved back? Thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: [PRR] For Sale - BLI M-1a/M-1b Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 14:29:52 -0400 We still have unallocated Broadway Limited M-1a and M-1b locomotives available. Please contact me off list for info if you need one. Dennis mailto: dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES http://www.onerrave.com featuring almost 10,000 in stock items 90A Jersey Avenue New Brunswick, NJ 08901 732-565-1555 Voice 732-565-1005 FAX ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] GP7/9 - alive and well in South Jersey Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:39:59 -0500 Hi All, There has been some banter on the S Scale list about GP7. I have something to add to it. The property of my new work backs right up to the Atlantic City line. I go the back of the property sometimes at lunch to watch New Jersey Transit roll by at 60+ MPH. Yesterday afternoon was wonderful weather in South Jersey. I am the purchasing agent for my work, and was looking to get out for a little while. There was an order of cut glass ready in Hammonton that I volunteered to go pick up. I don't remember the last time I have been in downtown Hammonton. I was about 5 cars back from an intersection that included a grade crossing. I was turning left just before the tracks. Of course I thought while waiting for the light it would be nice to see a train now. I no sooner thought that and the crossing gates dropped! I thought it was going to be a NJT train, but luckily I was wrong. To my total surprise it was a GP7/9 at about 30 MPH, still making a living 50+ years later! It had about 20 cars in tow. I could not tell if it was a GP7 or a GP9. It is difficult to read the builders plate from 150 feet and the engine at 30 MPH. If I were a little closer to the grade crossing I would have chased it for sure! I was in complete shock, so I did not see the markings. It was similar to B&M blue. I am pretty sure that is the first GP9 I have ever seen running, let alone in revenue service. Does anyone know what the road is? Is it based out of Winslow Junction? Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Robert Kessler" Subject: [PRR] RE: PRR-Talk Digest - 11/01/03 Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 12:44:51 -0800 Dennis and all: Thanks for the suggestion. I have checked the Utah Pacific web site where these parts are illustrated: http://www.internettrains.com/internettrains/utpaclocdetp.html That antenna mast is the same part I used more than 20 years ago to model the train phone antennas on a PRR GP30. Not quite right for the GP30 , but this was before the Cal-Scale masts were available. The needed part will have two legs and a cross-member forming an inverted U-shaped support with a rod-like mast rising maybe 6 inches from the cross-member. One thing is certain. I will be buying pre-war Falls or Colonial car sides from you to use the Custom Finishes parts I have. Bob Kessler -----Original Message----- From: Prr1187@aol.com [mailto:Prr1187@aol.com] Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 8:36 PM To: robertke@comcast.net; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: Antenna Bracket Castings for PRR Lounges Bob, et al, For postwar cars in HO scale, Utah Pacific makes the single post antenna masts either in brass, Walther's catalog #755-91 or in plastic, #755-92. Kind regards, Dennis Sautters Laser Horizons In a message dated 10/31/03 4:20:30 PM, robertke@comcast.net writes: << I must not have had my glasses on when I looked at that photo of Sassafras Falls. The Custom Finishes A-181 antenna supports are correct for the pre-WW2 Falls, Colonial and Harbor sleeper/lounge cars, as well as the Narrows and View observation lounges, but not the post WW2 Pullman sleeper/lounges and sleeper/lounge/observation cars. Sorry about that. I am temporarily at a loss as to how to model the antenna for my NKP Falls car. Bob Kessler >> Narrows and View observation lounges, but not the post WW2 Pullman sleeper/lounges and sleeper/lounge/observation cars. Sorry about that. I am temporarily at a loss as to how to model the antenna for my NKP Falls car. Bob Kessler >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 18:41:36 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] GP7/9 - alive and well in South Jersey Southern Railroad of New Jersey has service out of Winslow Junction, as well as the line to Salem further west. Dunno about paint schemes they use, but Dale Woodland's "Seashore Lines" column in November Railpace Magazine reports that SRNJ GP 9 100 was in service on the Salem line in September, and GP10 102 in service out of Winslow Junction. Dale notes that there has been a substantial increase in traffic out of Winslow, with both day and night runs on the Pleasantville line -- a 24-hour operation, he says. - - John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 20:32:32 EST Subject: [PRR] E-7 Vents --part1_114.2adf456f.2cd5b8b0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am working on the conversion of plastic shells to represent the Pennsy's units. One detail I have not found and doubt exists is the two small square vents just to the rear of the cab doors. Does an HO manufacturer make these vents or will they need to be scratched? Thank you, Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 --part1_114.2adf456f.2cd5b8b0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   I am working on the conversion of plastic shell= s to represent the Pennsy's units.  One detail I have not found and dou= bt exists is the two small square vents just to the rear of the cab doors.&n= bsp; Does an HO manufacturer make these vents or will they need to be scratc= hed?

Thank you,

Evan Leisey
RCT&HS  346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 --part1_114.2adf456f.2cd5b8b0_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 20:57:01 EST Subject: [PRR] Builders plate on EBay From: aurora7@juno.com There is a B6sb builders plate on EBay at the moment. To high for my collection, but a nice piece, none the less. Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "If you can't say anything nice, at least be vague". ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 21:21:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] E-7 Vents Hi Evan, Are you building "as built" or late PRR E7s?. There are two vents behind the cab doors on the second order(?) of E7s. You might want to check out "PRR Diesel Loco. Pictorial Volume 7- EMD E Units and Alco PAs" by Withers. Hope this helps. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chuck Friedlein" Subject: Re: [PRR] Builders plate on EBay Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 22:10:31 -0500 I don't have a list of items handy, but does anybody know if the plate on eBay might be one of the things stolen from the Strasburg RR? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 8:57 PM Subject: [PRR] Builders plate on EBay > There is a B6sb builders plate on EBay at the moment. To high for my > collection, but a nice piece, none the less. > > Richard Glueck > Peace of the Planet Farm > Winterport, Maine > > "If you can't say anything nice, at least be vague". > > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 22:32:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Builders plate on EBay Chuck, The B6sb Plate, which is from Loco #4001 doesn't ring a bell as to one from the Strasburg Collection. However, there is a slight coincidence with this plate. It happens to be the same number I picked for my 1:29th Scale B6sb model. I chose that because the 4001 was a late steam era loco still alive and running around in the Columbus area. Too high for me now as well.................I think, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 00:06:18 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] 100 more X29 BX converted into 2000-2498 In a message dated 10/31/03 1:12:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: [PRR] Road numbers of X29 Railway Express cars > From: "Claus Schlund" > Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 19:00:34 -0800 > > Hi Fred, > > My photocopy of the Apr 1938 ORER has the following entry: > > AAR Designation BX Express 2000-2498 (number of cars 215) under 60 ft > length. > > While the ORER does NOT give the PRR class designation for passenger > equipmenbt (it DOES for freight equipment) these are probably the > X29 cars assigned for that era. > > I believe the low 2000's numbers were X29 cars for a very > long time - probably during your 1937 era as well > as earlier and later. > > - Claus > Thanks, Claus I infer this means that another 100 X29's were converted between July 1936 and Apr 1938. Then no more were converted to passenger service until after January 1940. Yes, this number series appears to be the only one active in 1937. We're inferring that all the X25 cars in this series are gone -- a good bet after 1934. For you later modelers, this number series is not the only one active after 1943, but it contained most of the 500 cars allowed from 1942 through at least 1958, and 180 survivors made it to the end of the PRR. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Rent DVDs Online - Over 14,500 titles. No Late Fees & Free Shipping. Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/xlw.sC/XP.FAA/3jkFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 00:06:18 EST Subject: [PRR] 100 more X29 BX converted into 2000-2498 --part1_145.1b93afca.2cd5eaca_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/31/03 1:12:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: [PRR] Road numbers of X29 Railway Express cars > From: "Claus Schlund" > Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 19:00:34 -0800 > > Hi Fred, > > My photocopy of the Apr 1938 ORER has the following entry: > > AAR Designation BX Express 2000-2498 (number of cars 215) under 60 ft > length. > > While the ORER does NOT give the PRR class designation for passenger > equipmenbt (it DOES for freight equipment) these are probably the > X29 cars assigned for that era. > > I believe the low 2000's numbers were X29 cars for a very > long time - probably during your 1937 era as well > as earlier and later. > > - Claus > Thanks, Claus I infer this means that another 100 X29's were converted between July 1936 and Apr 1938. Then no more were converted to passenger service until after January 1940. Yes, this number series appears to be the only one active in 1937. We're inferring that all the X25 cars in this series are gone -- a good bet after 1934. For you later modelers, this number series is not the only one active after 1943, but it contained most of the 500 cars allowed from 1942 through at least 1958, and 180 survivors made it to the end of the PRR. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_145.1b93afca.2cd5eaca_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 10/31/03 1:12:53 AM Eastern Standar= d Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:


Subject: Re: [PRR] Road numbers= of X29 Railway Express cars
From: "Claus Schlund" <schlund@cwnet.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 19:00:34 -0800

Hi Fred,

My photocopy of the Apr 1938 ORER has the following entry:

AAR Designation BX  Express 2000-2498 (number of cars 215) under 60 ft=20= length.

While the ORER does NOT give the PRR class designation for passenger
equipmenbt (it DOES for freight equipment) these are probably the
X29 cars assigned for that era.

I believe the low 2000's numbers were X29 cars for a very
long time - probably during your 1937 era as well
as earlier and later.

  -  Claus


Thanks, Claus

I infer this means that another 100 X29's were converted between July 1936 a= nd Apr 1938.  Then no more were converted to passenger service until af= ter January 1940.

Yes, this number series appears to be the only one active in 1937.  We'= re inferring that all the X25 cars in this series are gone -- a good bet aft= er 1934.  For you later modelers, this number series is not the only on= e active after 1943, but it contained most of the 500 cars allowed from 1942= through at least 1958, and 180 survivors made it to the end of the PRR.&nbs= p;

Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_145.1b93afca.2cd5eaca_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 00:06:16 EST Subject: [PRR] B6 a Lines West acquisition --part1_64.366f2fd3.2cd5eac8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/30/03 7:36:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Bowser B6 now available > From: "Martin Harriss" > Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:30:34 -0500 > > It apprears that Bowser's B6 is now available (they just updated their > web page this morning.) > > Martin > I'll bet you mean the B6sa/B6sb. The class B6 is an earlier and slightly lighter animal, bought only by Lines West. To add to our confusion, those B6 were built with piston valves, but most were rebuilt with (you guessed it) superheaters, yielding class B6s. Some of these lasted long enough around Cincinnati to cause concern in our captioning of the Spring 2004 Keystone article. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_64.366f2fd3.2cd5eac8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 10/30/03 7:36:06 PM Eastern Standar= d Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:


Subject: Bowser B6 now availabl= e
From: "Martin Harriss" <martin@Princeton.EDU>
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:30:34 -0500

It apprears that Bowser's B6 is now available (they just updated their
web page this morning.)

Martin


I'll bet you mean the B6sa/B6sb.  The class B6 is an earlier and slight= ly lighter animal, bought only by Lines West.  To add to our confusion,= those B6 were built with piston valves, but most were rebuilt with (you gue= ssed it) superheaters, yielding class B6s.  Some of these lasted long e= nough around Cincinnati to cause concern in our captioning of the Spring 200= 4 Keystone article.

Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_64.366f2fd3.2cd5eac8_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 23:41:43 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: Re: [PRR] E-7 Vents Evan, list, You may already have it, but RMC's May 2000 issue (pages 66 to 71) has a good article on modeling a PRR E7/EP20 circa mid 50s. Article includes how to add the extra vents added by the PRR. Only error that I caught on a very nice model was author's use of a "freight" pilot vs the correct "passenger" pilot. Naturally, this article came out after I finished my model of 5901...rebuilding her is on my list of future projects. Doug --- RDG2124@aol.com wrote: > I am working on the conversion of plastic shells > to represent the Pennsy's units. One detail I have not found and doubt exists is the two small square > vents just to the rear of the cab doors. Does an HO > manufacturer make these vents or will they need to be scratched? > > Thank you, > > Evan Leisey > RCT&HS 346 > PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] N8 Interior Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 18:13:27 -0500 Hi Guys, I am forwarding this for a friend who is painting some S Scale N8. Please reply to Rusty at rusty1945@juno.com Thanks Bill -----Original Message----- From: James rustermier [mailto:rusty1945@juno.com] Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 5:49 PM To: billlane@comcast.net Subject: Bill: Do you know what color the PRR painted the inside of their N8? The photos you sent me of the interior looks like it was a two tone job with some light color on top. Rusty --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.534 / Virus Database: 329 - Release Date: 10/31/2003 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 18:28:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] N8 Interior Rusty, Bill, In emailing back and forth with Bob Johnson, the following is the info he supplied me cocerning the interior of Cabins. Should help somewhat.....Gary E-mail message From: bobjohnson@alltel.net (Bob=A0Johnson) Date: Tue, Mar 4, 2003, 9:24pm To: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Subject: Re: N5c Hi Gary, The only specification I have found for cabin car floors is "Apply two coats of Quick Drying Floor Enamel, P.R.R. shade, Acct. 47, Ref. 2334, to the floors." This was dated January 13, 1953. I have been told that it was a dark red, like old-fashioned red porch and floor paint. I don't know if that stuff is still sold in paint stores or not. If you fellows can get a good match to the existing red on your floor, I would like to know what it is, as I get lots of questions. It would be great to be able to tell people to use a specific brand and type of paint, or a specific mixture. The original interior color of the N5c (and most other PRR cabin cars) was Buff. On January 13, 1953 this was changed to "Apply two coats of P. O. Green Enamel, Acct. 47, Ref. 3119, to the walls, from floor up to and including window sills; the lockers, interior and exterior; seat frames; lower bunks; table and sink, except tops; end doors and frames; bulkhead corner posts to the ceiling, and the cupola seats, including armrests and sides to and including cupola side window sills and safety rail." "Apply two coats of Cream Enamel, Acct. 47, Ref. 3047, to the remainder of the interior above window sills, including the bottoms of upper bunks and the ceilings." I have no idea what P. O. stands for in the green name. Perhaps careful sanding will allow you to find the original Buff under the green in some spots. Once again, any color matches you can make will be very helpful to others restoring cabin cars or even doing model interiors. Modelers wouldn't want to use the prototype paint - it would be too thick. But knowing what it was would allow samples to be obtained of the real paint, which could then be matched to model paint. Good luck with the project, Bob Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 18:13:27 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] N8 Interior Hi Guys, I am forwarding this for a friend who is painting some S Scale N8. Please reply to Rusty at rusty1945@juno.com Thanks Bill -----Original Message----- From: James rustermier [mailto:rusty1945@juno.com] Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 5:49 PM To: billlane@comcast.net Subject: Bill: Do you know what color the PRR painted the inside of their N8? The photos you sent me of the interior looks like it was a two tone job with some light color on top. Rusty --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.534 / Virus Database: 329 - Release Date: 10/31/2003 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 20:42:41 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] E-7 Vents --part1_d0.40e4fc19.2cd70c91_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Evan, The vents need to be scratched... Then don't forget the radiator vents need to be rebuilt, there is a commercial part for that, and the addition of the rear vents on the carline below the roof at the very rear. The we can talk about the pilots and them the journals ... this should keep you busy for sometime.... Greg Martin --part1_d0.40e4fc19.2cd70c91_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Evan,

The vents need to be scratched... Then don't forget the radiator vents need=20= to be rebuilt, there is a commercial part for that, and the addition of the=20= rear vents on the carline below the roof at the very rear. The we can talk a= bout the pilots and them the journals ... this should keep you busy for some= time....    

Greg Martin --part1_d0.40e4fc19.2cd70c91_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 18:28:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] N8 Interior Rusty, Bill, In emailing back and forth with Bob Johnson, the following is the info he supplied me cocerning the interior of Cabins. Should help somewhat.....Gary =20 E-mail message=20=20=20 =20 From: bobjohnson@alltel.net (Bob=A0Johnson) Date: Tue, Mar 4, 2003, 9:24pm To: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Subject: Re: N5c=20 Hi Gary,=20 The only specification I have found for cabin car floors is "Apply two coats of Quick Drying Floor Enamel, P.R.R. shade, Acct. 47, Ref. 2334, to the floors." This was dated January 13, 1953. I have been told that it was a dark red, like old-fashioned red porch and floor paint. I don't know if that stuff is still sold in paint stores or not. If you fellows can get a good match to the existing red on your floor, I would like to know what it is, as I get lots of questions. It would be great to be able to tell people to use a specific brand and type of paint, or a specific mixture.=20 The original interior color of the N5c (and most other PRR cabin cars) was Buff. On January 13, 1953 this was changed to "Apply two coats of P. O. Green Enamel, Acct. 47, Ref. 3119, to the walls, from floor up to and including window sills; the lockers, interior and exterior; seat frames; lower bunks; table and sink, except tops; end doors and frames; bulkhead corner posts to the ceiling, and the cupola seats, including armrests and sides to and including cupola side window sills and safety rail." "Apply two coats of Cream Enamel, Acct. 47, Ref. 3047, to the remainder of the interior above window sills, including the bottoms of upper bunks and the ceilings." I have no idea what P. O. stands for in the green name.=20 Perhaps careful sanding will allow you to find the original Buff under the green in some spots. Once again, any color matches you can make will be very helpful to others restoring cabin cars or even doing model interiors. Modelers wouldn't want to use the prototype paint - it would be too thick. But knowing what it was would allow samples to be obtained of the real paint, which could then be matched to model paint.=20 Good luck with the project, Bob=20 Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=3D5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remember= ing Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to =3D PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com=20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=20 !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:47:53 -0600 Subject: Re:[PRR] B6 a Lines West acquisition From: Bruce Smith --Apple-Mail-2--634240022 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On Saturday, November 1, 2003, at 11:06 PM, RickTipton@aol.com wrote: > I'll bet you mean the B6sa/B6sb.=A0 The class B6 is an earlier and =20 > slightly lighter animal, bought only by Lines West.=A0 To add to our =20= > confusion, those B6 were built with piston valves, but most were =20 > rebuilt with (you guessed it) superheaters, yielding class B6s.=A0 = Some =20 > of these lasted long enough around Cincinnati to cause concern in our =20= > captioning of the Spring 2004 Keystone article. Actually, you mean that the Bowser is a B6sb only since the B6sa had a =20= radial stay firebox Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin =20= Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ = ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ = =20 | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | =20 ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| =20 |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-2--634240022 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Saturday, November 1, 2003, at 11:06 PM, RickTipton@aol.com wrote: I'll bet you mean the B6sa/B6sb.=A0 The class B6 is an earlier and slightly lighter animal, bought only by Lines West.=A0 To add to our confusion, those B6 were built with piston valves, but most were rebuilt with (you guessed it) superheaters, yielding class B6s.=A0 Some of these lasted long enough around Cincinnati to cause concern in our captioning of the Spring 2004 Keystone article. Actually, you mean that the Bowser is a B6sb only since the B6sa had a radial stay firebox < Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. =20 Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin Courier __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ =20 ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __=20 __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 = 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-2--634240022-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 08:21:12 -0600 Subject: [PRR] FW: RS: News Regarding "Surviving World Steam" for From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" Forwarded from the Railspot list. Some of you may be interested. Don Harper Marine Lab Texas A&M Univ. at Galveston Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ---------- From: James Hefner To: "james@survivingworldsteam.com" Subject: RS: News Regarding "Surviving World Steam" for November 2003 Date: Sat, 01 Nov, 2003, 7:03 The "Surviving World Steam" project is documenting the last of the world's remaining steam locomotives, ships, boats, vehicles, and reciprocating pumps in the form of searchable databases and digital photographs. Roughly 31,000 steam engines in 150 countries and 2,000 photographs are included in the Surviving World Steam project. For more information please visit our new website at: http://www.survivingworldsteam.com *** Contents *** =B7 New Features, New Photographs, New Website all part of the update for November 2003 =B7 "Surviving World Steam Locomotives" has been updated for November 2003 =B7 "Surviving World Steam Vehicles" has been updated for November 2003 =B7 " Steam Lizards" update for November 2003 =B7 "Surviving World Steamships" has been updated for November 2003 *** New Features, New Photographs, New Website all part of the update for November 2003 *** The "Surviving World Steam" Project has achieved several notable milestones in the past six months. The total number of users surpassed the 200 mark during this time. For the first time since this project was begun, the total number of pictures added to the project exceeded the total number of new engines added in the past six months. And two new and long-awaited program features have been added to the "Surviving World Steam" CD-ROMs. The project now has its own website at http://www.survivingworldsteam.com. A great big THANK YOU to Paul Evans and Internal Fire, Museum of Power, Wales for hosting our new website; and to Patrick M. Cassell, Jean Francois Cou=EBdou, Neil J. Edwards, Ray Gardiner, Paul Sharpe, and Franz VonRiedel (Zenith Tug) for providing the majority of the 873 photographs that have been added to the "Surviving World Steam" project library since May 2003. *** "Surviving World Steam Locomotives" has been updated for November 2003 *** The "Surviving World Steam Locomotives" for Windows CD-ROM was the first CD-ROM in the "Surviving World Steam" series, and has been updated for the month of November 2003. It now contains 19,018 steam locomotives; up 73 since the last update in May 2003 and 91% or more of the total worldwide. The "Surviving World Steam Locomotive" program CD-ROM now includes 820 photographs in 62 countries. They include representative examples of builders and classes the world over. Examples of most surviving classes in North America, the UK, and much of Europe are also now included. Thirteen sound clips are also included. The program itself includes two new features. One is a more extensive search form. You can now search each field individual; so for example, you can search for 3 ft gauge Baldwin 4-6-0s remaining in India. The other is a slide show feature; you enter the number of seconds delay, and the program automatically pages through the database. Hitting the same function key stops the slide show; when it reaches the end of the database, it starts back at the beginning again. Those who have already purchased a copy can order an update. The update includes a copy of the program with the new features and 210 pictures, many of which do not ship with the program. Update CD-ROMs include an "Update Wizard", which transfers pictures and sound clip links to the update from your current copy before overwriting it. Thus, you needn't worry about losing your picture collection with each update. To read more about "Surviving World Steam Locomotives", or to obtain a program or update CD-ROM, go to http://www.survivingworldsteam.com/us_steam *** "Surviving World Steam Vehicles" has been updated for November 2003 **= * "Surviving World Steam Vehicles" is the second CD-ROM in the "Surviving World Steam" series. It was first released in November 2001; and has also been updated for November 2003. It now includes 10,014 vehicles (up 121 since the last update in May 2003), 480 photographs, and one Quicktime Movie. No one knows how many steam vehicles remain; my best guess is that this represents 75% of the total worldwide. It also includes the new release of the "Surviving World Steam" program with the extended search and slide show features. An update CD-ROM with the new program, 497 photographs, and the "Update Wizard" is also available for "Surviving World Steam Vehicles". To read more about "Surviving World Steam Vehicles", or to obtain a copy, please go to http://www.survivingworldsteam.com/steam_tr . *** " Steam Lizards" update for November 2003 *** The "Steam Lizards" project now has two main websites. First is our "Steam Lizards" group on Yahoo. It is at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/steam_lizards It is currently made up of 84 members, second only to "Surviving World Steam Locomotives" in total number of users. The online "survivor's database" contains 729 pumps, nearly twice as many since May 2003. A good selection of links is also available in the Links section. New for November 2003 is a picture on the "Steam Lizard" Group home page of a pair of G&J Weir vertical simplex steam pumps in the Bressingham Steam Museum; taken by "Sharpo" a member of the Steam Lizards group. The second "steam lizard" website is the "Surviving World Steam Lizard" photo gallery at: http://www.survivingworldsteam.com/gallery/ It now includes 551 current and historical photographs by various photographers from around the world. The photo gallery is entirely searchable, using the search field on the home page; and has no pop ups or banner ads. It is available to everyone; no logon ID is required. Special thanks to Ray Gardiner for his major contributions to this project to date, and to Rob Dickinson for the help he and Ray have provided by documenting virtually every single steam pump found in the sugar mills of Java in Indonesia. *** "Surviving World Steamships" has been updated for November 2003 *** "Surviving World Steamships" is the third CD-ROM in the "Surviving World Steam" series. It includes: =B7 Vessels propelled by a steam engine and boiler =B7 Vessels propelled by a steam turbine and boiler =B7 Vessels propelled by a steam turbine and nuclear reactor It was first released in November 2002; and has been updated for November 2003. It now includes 1956 vessels (up 200 since last May), 183 photographs, and one Quicktime Movie. It is thought that this total is 78% of the estimated 2500 steam vessels worldwide. (Steamboats as small as steam launches are included, and make up most of the missing vessels.) It also includes the new release of the "Surviving World Steam" program with the extended search and slide show features. To read more about "Surviving World Steamships", or to obtain a copy, please go to http://www.survivingworldsteam.com/steamship Special thanks to Ted Miles of the San Francisco Maritime National Historical Park, Franz VonRiedel of Zenith Tug, and Jeff H. Schurr for their help in researching this project. *** In closing, I want to once again extend a warm "thank you" to everyone who has supported "Surviving World Steam", either by sending photographs or data, or by purchasing a CD-ROM, or both. In every respect, 2003 continues to be our best year ever, and I am indebted to everyone who has made this possible. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. -James Hefner (Hebrews 10:20a) JDH Consulting james1@survivingworldsteam.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Rent DVDs Online - Over 14,500 titles. No Late Fees & Free Shipping. Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/xlw.sC/XP.FAA/3jkFAA/8ZCslB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:59:49 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Alco RS1 Use in 1954 From: Jerry Britton Have a few RS1's and I'm trying to figure out how to use them on my 1954 layout, which includes portions of the Philadelphia, Middle, and Pittsburgh divisions. The 1957 "Trains" feature on the "World's Busiest Mountain Railroad" shows two trains with RS3 lashups (I think PG-10 was one of them). But I've learned through Jack Consoli that not all of the RS1's could MU, and the majority of those that could, could only MU at one end. So, you wouldn't see more than a pair together. Of the actual road numbers released by Atlas, one was assigned to the New York division and one to the Eastern division. How were they used? How might I use them? Did they switch locals? Or did they switch with the yard limits? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:01:43 EST Subject: [PRR] BLI GG1 Knuckle Couplers --part1_1ea.1265bb64.2cd7f207_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been looking at mounting the Kadee 58 coupler on this unit as has another list member. There does not appear to be any way to do this without some detail damaging surgery. Has any one found a way? I am really not fond of the supplied knuckle coupler. BTW, Kadee is working on a new "draft gear" (coupler pocket) as found on their box car line as a separate part. This will yield a much narrower coupler pocket. An interesting item here is that the shank length of the box car coupler is longer than the 58 couplers' shank and the ends are different. So, a current number 58 will not mount in the box car. I was told that the customer complaints about that too large and unprototypical coupler box was the driving force behind this new coupler and draft gear project. Wonder if this will lead to a line of prototypical couplers and coupler pockets? Thank you, Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 --part1_1ea.1265bb64.2cd7f207_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   I have been looking at mounting the Kadee 58 co= upler on this unit as has another list member.  There does not appear t= o be any way to do this without some detail damaging surgery.  Has any=20= one found a way?  I am really not fond of the supplied knuckle coupler.=

  BTW,  Kadee is working on a new "draft gear" (coupler pocket) as= found on their box car line as a separate part.  This will yield a muc= h narrower coupler pocket.  An interesting item here is that the shank=20= length of the box car coupler is longer than the 58 couplers' shank and the=20= ends are different.    So, a current number 58 will not mount= in the box car.  I was told that the customer complaints about that to= o large and unprototypical coupler box was the driving force behind this new= coupler and draft gear project.  Wonder if this will lead to a line of= prototypical couplers and coupler pockets?

Thank you,

Evan Leisey
RCT&HS  346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 --part1_1ea.1265bb64.2cd7f207_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:33:37 -0600 Subject: [PRR] BLI GG1 Knuckle Couplers From: Bruce Smith --Apple-Mail-14--617095171 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On Monday, November 3, 2003, at 12:01 PM, RDG2124@aol.com wrote: > =A0 I have been looking at mounting the Kadee 58 coupler on this unit = as =20 > has another list member.=A0 There does not appear to be any way to do =20= > this without some detail damaging surgery.=A0 Has any one found a = way?=A0 =20 > I am really not fond of the supplied knuckle coupler. > > =A0 BTW,=A0 Kadee is working on a new "draft gear" (coupler pocket) as = =20 > found on their box car line as a separate part.=A0 This will yield a =20= > much narrower coupler pocket.=A0 An interesting item here is that the =20= > shank length of the box car coupler is longer than the 58 couplers' =20= > shank and the ends are different.=A0=A0=A0 So, a current number 58 = will not =20 > mount in the box car.=A0 I was told that the customer complaints about = =20 > that too large and unprototypical coupler box was the driving force =20= > behind this new coupler and draft gear project.=A0 Wonder if this will = =20 > lead to a line of prototypical couplers and coupler pockets? Evan, What you want is the Kadee #78, which has been out for around a year =20 ...You reading guys gotta get out more ;^)> This coupler comes =20 with a "prototype" width box. I have heard of one person doing this =20 conversion on the BLI GG1. You're right, the kadee #19 (or what ever =20= it is) is pretty bizarre. Apparently it is european style coupler, but =20= last I looked, Broadway is an AMERICAN company. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin =20= Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ = ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ = =20 | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | =20 ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| =20 |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-14--617095171 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Monday, November 3, 2003, at 12:01 PM, RDG2124@aol.com wrote: Arial=A0 I have been looking at mounting the Kadee 58 coupler on this unit as has another list member.=A0 There does not appear to be any way to do this without some detail damaging surgery.=A0 Has any one found a way?=A0 I am really not fond of the supplied knuckle coupler. =A0 BTW,=A0 Kadee is working on a new "draft gear" (coupler pocket) as found on their box car line as a separate part.=A0 This will yield a much narrower coupler pocket.=A0 An interesting item here is that the shank length of the box car coupler is longer than the 58 couplers' shank and the ends are different.=A0=A0=A0 So, a current number 58 will = not mount in the box car.=A0 I was told that the customer complaints about that too large and unprototypical coupler box was the driving force behind this new coupler and draft gear project.=A0 Wonder if this will lead to a line of prototypical couplers and coupler pockets? Evan, What you want is the Kadee #78, which has been out for around a year <...You reading guys gotta get out more ;^)> This coupler comes with a "prototype" width box. I have heard of one person doing this conversion on the BLI GG1. You're right, the kadee #19 (or what ever it is) is pretty bizarre. Apparently it is european style coupler, but last I looked, Broadway is an AMERICAN company. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. =20 Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin Courier __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ =20 ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __=20 __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 = 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-14--617095171-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI GG1 Knuckle Couplers Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 18:37:55 +0000 Evan Leisey wrote: "Kadee is working on a new "draft gear" (coupler pocket) as found on their box car line as a separate part." It's already here as the #78: http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page350.htm "So, a current number 58 will not mount in the box car. I was told that the customer complaints about that too large and unprototypical coupler box was the driving force behind this new coupler and draft gear project." Going to the #58 revealed the shortcomings of the #5 coupler box. The oversized knuckle of the #5 hid the the fact that the boxes were too wide and shallow. "Wonder if this will lead to a line of prototypical couplers and coupler pockets?" Accurail has had their scale Accumate on the market for over two years now: http://www.accurail.com (Select "Accumate Couplers" from the drop down menu.) The Proto HO: Accumates don't have the large gap in the knuckle assembly that the #58 has. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:22:15 -0600 Subject: [PRR] F30 flat car brake detail From: Bruce Smith --Apple-Mail-22--606977676 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hello y'all, In a little spill over from the PRR Project group, I'm looking for F30A underframe shots or drawings. Specifically, I'd like to know the locations of the brake rods and levers. There is one shot in an older issue of the Keystone looking down with the deck off, but it isn't informative WRT the levers. Any help would be much appreciated! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-22--606977676 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Hello y'all, In a little spill over from the PRR Project group, I'm looking for F30A underframe shots or drawings. Specifically, I'd like to know the locations of the brake rods and levers. There is one shot in an older issue of the Keystone looking down with the deck off, but it isn't informative WRT the levers. Any help would be much appreciated! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin Courier __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-22--606977676-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Liljestrand & Sweetland Parlor Book Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:14:43 -0500 Just got in my shipment of Liljestrand & Sweetland's latest...volume three in the passenger car series. This volume is on parlor cars and -- lo and behold -- provides great insight into the many long-standing questions I have had about "coach cafe" and similarly named cars from the "makeup of trains" books. This book finally attaches actual classes to those ambiguous names. I will soon update the "24 Hours at Harrisburg" with this newfound info. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Frank & Andrea Amato" Subject: [PRR] X31a trucks Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:46:57 -0600 Listvolk, I have ten Fine N Scale X31a boxcars on the way, and I want to put appropriate trucks on them (we N scalers finally have several choices). That said, I have found conflicting info regarding trucks used on the prototypes. Several online references state that these cars were built with coil eliptic trucks, but the X31a pictures in PRR Color Guide Volume 2 that clearly show plain 'ol Bettendorf trucks. What's the story? My modeling period is 1960-ish, if that makes a difference. Thanks in advance! Frank ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] X31a trucks Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:15:23 -0600 Frank Amato wrote: Several online references state that these cars were built with coil elliptic trucks, but the X31a pictures in PRR Color Guide Volume 2 that clearly show plain 'ol Bettendorf trucks. What's the story? That's pretty much the story. The Class X31A boxcars were built with 2D-F10 coil-elliptic trucks. By the 1960s, photographic evidence in the three Morning Sun Color Guides shows that many (but not all) cars got 2D-F8 trucks by then. PRR 76642 (1955, Vol 1 p 77) still has coil-elliptic trucks, while PRR 62374 (2/18/1962, Vol 1 p 78) has one coil-elliptic truck and one 2D-F8 truck! It's possible that the leaf springs were simply replaced by coil springs as they wore out. As always, when in doubt, model from photos. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 23:45:38 -0500 From: John Ryan Subject: Re: [PRR] X31a trucks Who makes the 2D-F10 trucks in HO. John Ryan Benjamin Frank Hom wrote: >Frank Amato wrote: >Several online references state that these cars were built with coil >elliptic >trucks, but the X31a pictures in PRR Color Guide Volume 2 that clearly show >plain 'ol Bettendorf trucks. What's the story? > >That's pretty much the story. The Class X31A boxcars were built with 2D-F10 >coil-elliptic trucks. By the 1960s, photographic evidence in the three >Morning Sun Color Guides shows that many (but not all) cars got 2D-F8 trucks >by then. PRR 76642 (1955, Vol 1 p 77) still has coil-elliptic trucks, while >PRR 62374 (2/18/1962, Vol 1 p 78) has one coil-elliptic truck and one 2D-F8 >truck! It's possible that the leaf springs were simply replaced by coil >springs as they wore out. > >As always, when in doubt, model from photos. > > >Ben Hom > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Re: [PRR] X31a trucks Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 00:07:35 -0500 John, Bowser makes them. They are included in their X31a kits. Brian c ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ryan" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 11:45 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] X31a trucks > Who makes the 2D-F10 trucks in HO. > > John Ryan > > Benjamin Frank Hom wrote: > > >Frank Amato wrote: > >Several online references state that these cars were built with coil > >elliptic > >trucks, but the X31a pictures in PRR Color Guide Volume 2 that clearly show > >plain 'ol Bettendorf trucks. What's the story? > > > >That's pretty much the story. The Class X31A boxcars were built with 2D-F10 > >coil-elliptic trucks. By the 1960s, photographic evidence in the three > >Morning Sun Color Guides shows that many (but not all) cars got 2D-F8 trucks > >by then. PRR 76642 (1955, Vol 1 p 77) still has coil-elliptic trucks, while > >PRR 62374 (2/18/1962, Vol 1 p 78) has one coil-elliptic truck and one 2D-F8 > >truck! It's possible that the leaf springs were simply replaced by coil > >springs as they wore out. > > > >As always, when in doubt, model from photos. > > > > > >Ben Hom > > > > > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Looking for Bud Kaiser Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 15:01:18 +0000 Bud if you are still on PRR-talk would you contact me off list about the Jacks Tower please. Thanks, Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:02:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] J1 at Enola? From: Hello, I'm posting the question below for a friend. You can reply to the list, me, or directly to Jim. Thanks, kbt ------- Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:08:54 -0600 From: "Jim Kindraka" Subject: Pennsy Question... Had a question at the Fest regarding the PRR 2-10-4 and where they operated. Can any of you Pennsy guys tell me if the 'J's traveled as far east as Enola?? I have photos of them on Horseshoe, but wasn't sure if Altoona was the eastern terminus of 'J' activity or if they ranged east to Enola. Responses off line are fine... Jim Kindraka River Raisin Models http://www.riverraisinmodels.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach" Subject: [PRR] Walthers 4-4-2 Sleeper - Reply from Walthers Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:07:12 -0500

I emailed Walthers about the Pennsy 4-4-2 sleeper in the late scheme and this was the response.
 
"Thank you for the e-mail. Walthers item #932-6707 is not a
discontinued item. We will be re-running the product again.
 
Unfortunately, I do not expect to see that item again until January or
February of 2004.
 
I hope that this answers your questions. Thank you for allowing us to
serve you. "
 
So it looks like it will be available again. At first I thought this was the FOM color scheme, but the stock number for the scheme is 932-16704. I am still looking for the sleeper in the late scheme, but it is nice to know that I can pick one up later too.
Eric
 
--- Eric Lauterbach
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
 

----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] J1 at Enola? Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:17:02 -0500 On Nov 4, 2003, at 5:02 PM, wrote: > > I'm posting the question below for a friend. You > can reply to the list, me, or directly to Jim. It was previously discussed on the list that they did not come east of Altoona. There were clearance problems at the Spruce Creek tunnels as well as the flyover (under) into Enola at the west end of the Rockville Bridge. > > Thanks, > kbt > > ------- > > Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:08:54 -0600 > From: "Jim Kindraka" > Subject: Pennsy Question... > > Had a question at the Fest regarding the PRR 2-10-4 and where they > operated. Can > any of you Pennsy guys tell me if the 'J's traveled as far east as > Enola?? > I have > photos of them on Horseshoe, but wasn't sure if Altoona was the eastern > terminus of > 'J' activity or if they ranged east to Enola. > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: [PRR] Cabin car lettering Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 17:10:59 -0700 Gize, I am finally getting around to doing a couple of cabin cars as per Ed Martin's (bro of our very own Greg Martin) article in the Dec '95 Mainline Modeler. Need some advice on a couple of items though...lettering is the biggie. Who makes decent lettering for a pre-54 cabin car? And one more item...anyone out there affiliated with a hobby shop that can get the roofwaks (N5c version) needed from Bowser? We no longer have a hobby shop here in Tucson that can get these, and the shipping from Bowser is prohibitive. (Before the last hobby shop that was able to get these closed I had tried to order some...but he never got them. No wonder he's history). Although if necessary I can order them from Bowser, pay the price for shipping and be done with it. Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:23:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin car lettering Bill, Check out the new set by Microscale specifically for PRR Cabins. They have pretty much all versions. And with the thin decal film they apply and ide very good. As for Bowser roof walks, you might want to call AB Charles in Pgh. He has drawers of Bowser parts. I am sure he can ship quick if he happens to have them on hand which I wouldn't doubt. Phone number is 412-561-3068. Have the part number on hand so they can possily look while you wait.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 22:18:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] 2004 PCRRHS Convention in Altoona Pa. (With permission from Mr. Jerry Britton) Greetings, On Sept.16,17, and 18 of 2004, the Penn Central Railroad Historical Society will have their annual meet in the City of Altoona and help celebrate the 150th anniversary of the opening of Horseshoe Curve. The convention will focus on operations of the PC on the Pittsburgh and Allegheny Divisions of the railroad. A slide show from a 35 year engineer who operated trains over Horseshoe. Plus a presentations on PRR's yards and shops during the steam era. And we are working on tours Yes, there is a Penn Central Society. Many of the members are also PRRT&HS members. About 250 strong and growing. A great bunch of friendly guys. Altoona during the PC era was still THEE place to watch and photograph trains. Well over 100 trains a day and four tracks wide. Plus the H&P and the New Portage Branches still carried trains. If you would like to know more about the 2004 Convention or joining the PC Society, please contact me off list. Thanks and Best Regards, Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 22:40:06 -0500 Subject: [PRR] The first in a series. From: Jamie Bothwell Good evening, On page 116 of "Pennsylvania Railroad" by Schafer and Solomon in the "Railroad Color History" series there is a photo of a pair of Centipedes on single track pulling what is claimed to be the American through Manchester, OH in April, 1952. My road atlas list two Manchesters in Ohio. One is way down along the Ohio River, so there is no chance of a Pennsy line through there. The other is between Akron and Massillon. I find it hard to believe the American would be calling at either of these Manchesters on a regular basis. As a St. Louis train the American would have traveled through Coshocton, Dennison, and Steubenville. A 1952 timetable shows this train through eastern Ohio in the early to to mid morning, but not so early that the sun wouldn't be out. So, is the train shown really the American? Is it really in Manchester? If so, which one, and why? If not, what train is it, and/or where was the photo taken? Jamie Bothwell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RBurg74133@aol.com Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 22:48:46 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Liljestrand & Sweetland Parlor Book -------------------------------1068004126 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Interesting book. Answers many questions. however it raises at least one. The picture of the 26 &1 parlor car on page 6 named JESSIE is out of place my sources indicate that it was a Mopac car, Why was in a PRR book, a mistake or was it necessary to fill the page? Ray Burghart An SPF for Over 50 Years -------------------------------1068004126 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Interesting book. Answers many questions= . however it raises at least one. The picture of the 26 &1 parlor car on= page 6 named JESSIE is out of place my sources indicate that it was a Mopac= car, Why was in a PRR book, a mistake or was it necessary to fill the page?=
 
Ray Burghart
An SPF for Over 50 Years
-------------------------------1068004126-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] X31a trucks Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 23:10:21 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell On 3 Nov, "Frank & Andrea Amato" wrote: > I have ten Fine N Scale X31a boxcars on the way, and I want to put > appropriate trucks on them (we N scalers finally have several choices). Good choice of rolling stock! These are some of my favorite models. > That said, I have found conflicting info regarding trucks used on the > prototypes. As always, the Standard Railroad of the World! > Several online references state that these cars were built with coil eliptic > trucks, but the X31a pictures in PRR Color Guide Volume 2 that clearly show > plain 'ol Bettendorf trucks. What's the story? This is likely old news to you, but Bettendorfs and Coil-Elliptic look identical except for the springs; look at http://www.micro-trains.com/Cuts/1137.jpg from http://www.micro-trains.com/latest_t%20and%20coup.htm for a photo of the truck I would suggest you use, the only N Scale coil-elliptic truck that I know of. Look closely at the springs; if you strain your eyes, you'll see one coil and one leaf spring. As Ben said, the trucks and/or springs got replaced as time went on, and since the Color Guide only wants color pics, they tend to be mid-fifties and later. Are you aware of the prr-n_scale yahoo list? See . Good luck! Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harmantas, Andrew G TRADOC DCSOPS&T" Subject: RE: [PRR] J1 at Enola? Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:44:14 -0500 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3A3A2.E6777A08 Content-Type: text/plain I saw a J, and a couple of M's, along with many L's, at Enola back in 1953, or so. It was a smoky place. Within only a few months of my last visit there when steam was operational, it was all gone--cleaned out. The only thing left was the coaling tower down in the mixing bowl. I can't attest to the service assigned the J, or M's. Might've been stand-by for other assigned power. Wish I had a camera with my back then. Andrew Harmantas, now watching the action at C&O Milepost FM Zero. -----Original Message----- From: kbt@bit-net.com [mailto:kbt@bit-net.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 5:03 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] J1 at Enola? Hello, I'm posting the question below for a friend. You can reply to the list, me, or directly to Jim. Thanks, kbt ------- Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:08:54 -0600 From: "Jim Kindraka" Subject: Pennsy Question... Had a question at the Fest regarding the PRR 2-10-4 and where they operated. Can any of you Pennsy guys tell me if the 'J's traveled as far east as Enola?? I have photos of them on Horseshoe, but wasn't sure if Altoona was the eastern terminus of 'J' activity or if they ranged east to Enola. Responses off line are fine... Jim Kindraka River Raisin Models http://www.riverraisinmodels.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3A3A2.E6777A08 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [PRR] J1 at Enola?

I saw a J, and a couple of M's, along with many L's, = at Enola back in 1953, or so.  It was a smoky place.  Within = only a few months of my last visit there when steam was operational, it = was all gone--cleaned out.  The only thing left was the coaling = tower down in the mixing bowl.  I can't attest to the service = assigned the J, or M's.  Might've been stand-by for other assigned = power.  Wish I had a camera with my back then.

Andrew Harmantas, now watching the action at C&O = Milepost FM Zero.

-----Original Message-----
From: kbt@bit-net.com [mailto:kbt@bit-net.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 5:03 PM
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] J1 at Enola?


Hello,

I'm posting the question below for a friend. = You
can reply to the list, me, or directly to = Jim.

Thanks,
kbt

-------

Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:08:54 -0600
From: "Jim Kindraka" = <raisinone@wideopenwest.com>
Subject: Pennsy Question...

Had a question at the Fest regarding the PRR 2-10-4 = and where they
operated.  Can
any of you Pennsy guys tell me if the 'J's traveled = as far east as Enola??
 I have
photos of them on Horseshoe, but wasn't sure if = Altoona was the eastern
terminus of
'J' activity or if they ranged east to Enola.

Responses off line are fine...

Jim Kindraka
River Raisin Models
http://www.riverraisinmodels.com



---------------------------------------------------------------= --------
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C3A3A2.E6777A08-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:05:13 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] J1 at Enola? From: Jerry Britton On Wednesday, November 5, 2003, at 08:44 AM, Harmantas, Andrew G=20 TRADOC DCSOPS&T wrote: > I saw a J, and a couple of M's, along with many L's, at Enola back in=20= > 1953, or so.=A0 It was a smoky place.=A0 Within only a few months of = my=20 > last visit there when steam was operational, it was all gone--cleaned=20= > out.=A0 The only thing left was the coaling tower down in the mixing=20= > bowl.=A0 I can't attest to the service assigned the J, or M's.=A0 = Might've=20 > been stand-by for other assigned power.=A0 Wish I had a camera with my=20= > back then. Man, I'd love to see a pic of that...would add a whole new dimension to=20= my modeling!!! I'd love to run J's all the way from Cresson through=20 Enola! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:22:12 -0500 From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] J1 at Enola? In a message dated 11/5/2003 9:05:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > Man, I'd love to see a pic of that...would add a whole new dimension to > my modeling!!! I'd love to run J's all the way from Cresson > through > Enola! Jerry, you are assuming the J's came through Altoona. It is possible they came off the Buffalo line and therefore avoided the constricting points at Spruce Tunnel and the Rockville flyover. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:29:27 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] J1 at Enola? From: Jerry Britton On Wednesday, November 5, 2003, at 10:22 AM, SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote: >> Man, I'd love to see a pic of that...would add a whole new dimension >> to >> my modeling!!! I'd love to run J's all the way from Cresson >> through >> Enola! > > Jerry, you are assuming the J's came through Altoona. It is possible > they came off the Buffalo line and therefore avoided the constricting > points at Spruce Tunnel and the Rockville flyover. Good point. Did the J's run the Susquehanna Division main line...anyone? Anyone else recall seeing J's in Enola? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:36:23 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Last call for PRR Cincinnati photos Gentlemen, The response over the last several months to my request for photos of PRR in the Cincinnati area has been terrifiic. I owe all respondents a debt of gratitude and hope that all of you enjoy the article when it appears in the Spring Keystone. In a few days, my editor tells me, he will cut off new photos for "PRR in Cincinnati". I've recently received groups of photos from Gary Rolih and Gary Mittner, have written captions for them, and need to get the photos into the mail for scanning. This message is to ask if any of you will be sending in more photos (or have them on the way). If so, can you estimate when they will arrive here? Many thanks, Rick Tipton Email RickTipton@aol.com Phone or fax 502-228-4997 (8am to 8pm please) Wolf Penn Station 5108 Wolf Pen Woods Drive Prospect, KY 40059-9197 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:36:23 EST Subject: [PRR] Last call for PRR Cincinnati photos --part1_1d5.13a7ff00.2cda72f7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gentlemen, The response over the last several months to my request for photos of PRR in the Cincinnati area has been terrifiic. I owe all respondents a debt of gratitude and hope that all of you enjoy the article when it appears in the Spring Keystone. In a few days, my editor tells me, he will cut off new photos for "PRR in Cincinnati". I've recently received groups of photos from Gary Rolih and Gary Mittner, have written captions for them, and need to get the photos into the mail for scanning. This message is to ask if any of you will be sending in more photos (or have them on the way). If so, can you estimate when they will arrive here? Many thanks, Rick Tipton Email RickTipton@aol.com Phone or fax 502-228-4997 (8am to 8pm please) Wolf Penn Station 5108 Wolf Pen Woods Drive Prospect, KY 40059-9197 --part1_1d5.13a7ff00.2cda72f7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gentlemen,

The response over the last several months to my request for photos of PRR in= the Cincinnati area has been terrifiic.  I owe all respondents a debt=20= of gratitude and hope that all of you enjoy the article when it appears in t= he Spring Keystone.

In a few days, my editor tells me, he will cut off new photos for "PRR in Ci= ncinnati".  I've recently received groups of photos from Gary Rolih and= Gary Mittner, have written captions for them, and need to get the photos in= to the mail for scanning.

This message is to ask if any of you will be sending in more photos (or have= them on the way).  If so, can you estimate when they will arrive here?=

Many thanks,

 Rick Tipton
Email RickTipton@aol.com
Phone or fax 502-228-4997 (8am to 8pm please)
Wolf Penn Station
5108 Wolf Pen Woods Drive
Prospect, KY 40059-9197 --part1_1d5.13a7ff00.2cda72f7_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:07:59 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] J1 at Enola? From: Jerry Britton On Wednesday, November 5, 2003, at 12:03 PM, Garry Spear wrote: > Yes, as a small (8-10 yo) boy I remember seeing Js at Enola. My > father had pictures, which were sold to a slide vendor about 10 years > ago. No idea who bought them. Man, now ya got me drooling! I can run my J's across the entire layout. No more helper duty! Hmmm, now what should be helpers...I1's? Eventually I'll get BH50's, one way or another, and at least one lashup of F units. And Jack Consoli tells me there were five GP7's assigned to passenger helper service in 1954. But dang, now I can run J's on the mains! But which train? Hmmmm. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] J1 at Enola? Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:26:48 -0600 From: "Bill Volkmer" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3A3C1.FE75297C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SSB3b3VsZCBwZXJzb25hbGx5IGJlIHZlcnkgc3VycHJpc2VkIGlmIGFueW9uZSBjb21lcyB1cCB3 aXRoIHByb29mIHRoYXQgSi0xcyBtYWRlIGl0IHRvIEVub2xhIHZpYSB0aGUgU3VzcXVlaGFubmEg RGl2aXNpb24uICBSZWFzb24gSSBzYXkgdGhpcyBpcyB0aGF0IENsYXJlbmNlIFdlYXZlciAgcHJl dHR5IHdlbGwgcGhvdG9ncmFwaGVkIGV2ZXJ5IGxvY29tb3RpdmUgdGhhdCBvcGVyYXRlZCBwYXN0 IFN1bmJ1cnkgKCBJIHRoaW5rIGhlIGhpdCBldmVyeSBsYXN0IEstNCBvbiB0aGUgcm9zdGVyIGJ5 IHNpdHRpbmcgb24gdGhlIFN1bmJ1cnkgUG9zdCBPZmZpY2Ugc3RlcHMgYWNyb3NzIHRoZSBzdHJl ZXQgZnJvbSB0aGUgZGVwb3QpIGFuZCBJIGRvbid0IGV2ZXIgcmVjYWxsIGhpbSBzaG93aW5nIG1l IGEgcGhvdG8gb2YgYSBKLTEgcGFzc2luZyB0aHJvdWdoIHRvd24uIA0KIA0KSSB3b24ndCBzYXkg Im5ldmVyIiBidXQgSSB3b3VsZCBzdGlsbCBiZSBzdXJwcmlzZWQgaWYgaXQgd2FzIGV2ZW4gIm9u Y2UhIg0KIA0KV0RWICAoZm9ybWVyIG5laWdoYm9yIG9mIENsYXJhbmNlIGFib3V0IG9uZSBibG9j ayBhd2F5KQ0KIA0KIA0KDQoJLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0gDQoJRnJvbTogSmVy cnkgQnJpdHRvbiBbbWFpbHRvOmplcnJ5QHBlbm5zeXJyLmNvbV0gDQoJU2VudDogV2VkIDExLzUv MjAwMyAxMTowNyBBTSANCglUbzogR2FycnkgU3BlYXIgDQoJQ2M6IFBSUi1UYWxrIExJU1QgDQoJ U3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtQUlJdIEoxIGF0IEVub2xhPw0KCQ0KCQ0KDQoJT24gV2VkbmVzZGF5LCBO b3ZlbWJlciA1LCAyMDAzLCBhdCAxMjowMyAgUE0sIEdhcnJ5IFNwZWFyIHdyb3RlOg0KCQ0KCT4g WWVzLCBhcyBhIHNtYWxsICg4LTEwIHlvKSBib3kgSSByZW1lbWJlciBzZWVpbmcgSnMgYXQgRW5v bGEuICBNeQ0KCT4gZmF0aGVyIGhhZCBwaWN0dXJlcywgd2hpY2ggd2VyZSBzb2xkIHRvIGEgc2xp ZGUgdmVuZG9yIGFib3V0IDEwIHllYXJzDQoJPiBhZ28uICBObyBpZGVhIHdobyBib3VnaHQgdGhl bS4NCgkNCglNYW4sIG5vdyB5YSBnb3QgbWUgZHJvb2xpbmchIEkgY2FuIHJ1biBteSBKJ3MgYWNy b3NzIHRoZSBlbnRpcmUgbGF5b3V0Lg0KCU5vIG1vcmUgaGVscGVyIGR1dHkhDQoJDQoJSG1tbSwg bm93IHdoYXQgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGhlbHBlcnMuLi5JMSdzPw0KCQ0KCUV2ZW50dWFsbHkgSSdsbCBn ZXQgQkg1MCdzLCBvbmUgd2F5IG9yIGFub3RoZXIsIGFuZCBhdCBsZWFzdCBvbmUgbGFzaHVwDQoJ b2YgRiB1bml0cy4gQW5kIEphY2sgQ29uc29saSB0ZWxscyBtZSB0aGVyZSB3ZXJlIGZpdmUgR1A3 J3MgYXNzaWduZWQgdG8NCglwYXNzZW5nZXIgaGVscGVyIHNlcnZpY2UgaW4gMTk1NC4NCgkNCglC dXQgZGFuZywgbm93IEkgY2FuIHJ1biBKJ3Mgb24gdGhlIG1haW5zISBCdXQgd2hpY2ggdHJhaW4/ IEhtbW1tLg0KCS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQoJSmVycnkgQnJpdHRvbiwgU1BGICAgTWVtYmVyLCBQUlJUJkhTICAgamVy cnlAcGVubnN5cnIuY29tDQoJUGVubnN5bHZhbmlhIFJhaWxyb2FkLCBFYXN0ZXJuIFJlZ2lvbiwg MTk1NCBpbiBOIFNjYWxlLg0KCSJLZXlzdG9uZSBDcm9zc2luZ3MiIC0gSG9tZSBvZiB0aGUgIlBS Ui1UYWxrIiBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QhDQoJICAgICBodHRwOi8va2MucGVubnN5cnIuY29tDQoJIk1l cmNoYW5kaXNlIFNlcnZpY2UiIC0gTW9kZWwgcmFpbHJvYWQgcHJvZHVjdHMuLi4NCgkgICAgIGh0 dHA6Ly9tZXJjaGFuZGlzZS5wZW5uc3lyci5jb20NCgkNCgkNCgktLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KCUZv ciBhc3Npc3RhbmNlIHdpdGggdGhpcyBsaXN0LCBwbGVhc2UgdmlzaXQgaHR0cDovL2xpc3RzLmRz b3AuY29tLg0KCQ0KDQo= ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3A3C1.FE75297C Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PE1FVEEgSFRUUC1FUVVJVj0iQ29udGVudC1UeXBlIiBDT05URU5UPSJ0ZXh0L2h0bWw7IGNoYXJz ZXQ9dXRmLTgiPgo8IURPQ1RZUEUgSFRNTCBQVUJMSUMgIi0vL1czQy8vRFREIEhUTUwgMy4yLy9F TiI+CjxIVE1MPgo8SEVBRD4KCjxNRVRBIE5BTUU9IkdlbmVyYXRvciIgQ09OVEVOVD0iTVMgRXhj aGFuZ2UgU2VydmVyIHZlcnNpb24gNi4wLjYzOTYuMCI+CjxUSVRMRT5SZTogW1BSUl0gSjEgYXQg RW5vbGE/PC9USVRMRT4KPC9IRUFEPgo8Qk9EWSBkaXI9bHRyPgo8RElWPkkgd291bGQgcGVyc29u YWxseSBiZSB2ZXJ5IHN1cnByaXNlZCBpZiBhbnlvbmUgY29tZXMgdXAgd2l0aCBwcm9vZiB0aGF0 IApKLTFzIG1hZGUgaXQgdG8gRW5vbGEgdmlhIHRoZSBTdXNxdWVoYW5uYSBEaXZpc2lvbi4mbmJz cDsgUmVhc29uIEkgc2F5IHRoaXMgaXMgCnRoYXQgQ2xhcmVuY2UgV2VhdmVyJm5ic3A7IHByZXR0 eSB3ZWxsIHBob3RvZ3JhcGhlZCBldmVyeSBsb2NvbW90aXZlIHRoYXQgCm9wZXJhdGVkIHBhc3Qg U3VuYnVyeSAoIEkgdGhpbmsgaGUgaGl0IGV2ZXJ5IGxhc3QgSy00IG9uIHRoZSByb3N0ZXIgYnkg c2l0dGluZyAKb24gdGhlIFN1bmJ1cnkgUG9zdCBPZmZpY2Ugc3RlcHMgYWNyb3NzIHRoZSBzdHJl ZXQgZnJvbSB0aGUgZGVwb3QpIGFuZCBJIGRvbid0IApldmVyIHJlY2FsbCBoaW0gc2hvd2luZyBt ZSBhIHBob3RvIG9mIGEgSi0xIHBhc3NpbmcgdGhyb3VnaCB0b3duLiA8L0RJVj4KPERJVj4mbmJz cDs8L0RJVj4KPERJVj5JIHdvbid0IHNheSAibmV2ZXIiIGJ1dCBJIHdvdWxkIHN0aWxsIGJlIHN1 cnByaXNlZCBpZiBpdCB3YXMgZXZlbiAKIm9uY2UhIjwvRElWPgo8RElWPiZuYnNwOzwvRElWPgo8 RElWPldEViZuYnNwOyAoZm9ybWVyIG5laWdoYm9yIG9mIENsYXJhbmNlIGFib3V0IG9uZSBibG9j ayBhd2F5KTwvRElWPgo8RElWPiZuYnNwOzwvRElWPgo8RElWPiZuYnNwOzwvRElWPgo8QkxPQ0tR VU9URSBkaXI9bHRyIHN0eWxlPSJNQVJHSU4tUklHSFQ6IDBweCI+CiAgPERJVj48Rk9OVCBzaXpl PTI+LS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0gPEJSPjxCPkZyb206PC9CPiBKZXJyeSBCcml0 dG9uIAogIFttYWlsdG86amVycnlAcGVubnN5cnIuY29tXSA8QlI+PEI+U2VudDo8L0I+IFdlZCAx MS81LzIwMDMgMTE6MDcgQU0gCiAgPEJSPjxCPlRvOjwvQj4gR2FycnkgU3BlYXIgPEJSPjxCPkNj OjwvQj4gUFJSLVRhbGsgTElTVCA8QlI+PEI+U3ViamVjdDo8L0I+IAogIFJlOiBbUFJSXSBKMSBh dCBFbm9sYT88QlI+PEJSPjwvRk9OVD48L0RJVj4KICA8UD48Rk9OVCBzaXplPTI+T24gV2VkbmVz ZGF5LCBOb3ZlbWJlciA1LCAyMDAzLCBhdCAxMjowMyZuYnNwOyBQTSwgR2FycnkgU3BlYXIgCiAg d3JvdGU6PEJSPjxCUj4mZ3Q7IFllcywgYXMgYSBzbWFsbCAoOC0xMCB5bykgYm95IEkgcmVtZW1i ZXIgc2VlaW5nIEpzIGF0IAogIEVub2xhLiZuYnNwOyBNeTxCUj4mZ3Q7IGZhdGhlciBoYWQgcGlj dHVyZXMsIHdoaWNoIHdlcmUgc29sZCB0byBhIHNsaWRlIHZlbmRvciAKICBhYm91dCAxMCB5ZWFy czxCUj4mZ3Q7IGFnby4mbmJzcDsgTm8gaWRlYSB3aG8gYm91Z2h0IHRoZW0uPEJSPjxCUj5NYW4s IG5vdyB5YSAKICBnb3QgbWUgZHJvb2xpbmchIEkgY2FuIHJ1biBteSBKJ3MgYWNyb3NzIHRoZSBl bnRpcmUgbGF5b3V0LjxCUj5ObyBtb3JlIGhlbHBlciAKICBkdXR5ITxCUj48QlI+SG1tbSwgbm93 IHdoYXQgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGhlbHBlcnMuLi5JMSdzPzxCUj48QlI+RXZlbnR1YWxseSBJJ2xsIAog IGdldCBCSDUwJ3MsIG9uZSB3YXkgb3IgYW5vdGhlciwgYW5kIGF0IGxlYXN0IG9uZSBsYXNodXA8 QlI+b2YgRiB1bml0cy4gQW5kIAogIEphY2sgQ29uc29saSB0ZWxscyBtZSB0aGVyZSB3ZXJlIGZp dmUgR1A3J3MgYXNzaWduZWQgdG88QlI+cGFzc2VuZ2VyIGhlbHBlciAKICBzZXJ2aWNlIGluIDE5 NTQuPEJSPjxCUj5CdXQgZGFuZywgbm93IEkgY2FuIHJ1biBKJ3Mgb24gdGhlIG1haW5zISBCdXQg d2hpY2ggCiAgdHJhaW4/IAogIEhtbW1tLjxCUj4tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLTxCUj5KZXJyeSAKICBCcml0dG9uLCBTUEYm bmJzcDsmbmJzcDsgTWVtYmVyLCBQUlJUJmFtcDtIUyZuYnNwOyZuYnNwOyAKICBqZXJyeUBwZW5u c3lyci5jb208QlI+UGVubnN5bHZhbmlhIFJhaWxyb2FkLCBFYXN0ZXJuIFJlZ2lvbiwgMTk1NCBp biBOIAogIFNjYWxlLjxCUj4iS2V5c3RvbmUgQ3Jvc3NpbmdzIiAtIEhvbWUgb2YgdGhlICJQUlIt VGFsayIgbWFpbGluZyAKICBsaXN0ITxCUj4mbmJzcDsmbmJzcDsmbmJzcDsmbmJzcDsgPEEgCiAg aHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL2tjLnBlbm5zeXJyLmNvbSI+aHR0cDovL2tjLnBlbm5zeXJyLmNvbTwvQT48 QlI+Ik1lcmNoYW5kaXNlIAogIFNlcnZpY2UiIC0gTW9kZWwgcmFpbHJvYWQgcHJvZHVjdHMuLi48 QlI+Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7IDxBIAogIGhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly9tZXJjaGFuZGlz ZS5wZW5uc3lyci5jb20iPmh0dHA6Ly9tZXJjaGFuZGlzZS5wZW5uc3lyci5jb208L0E+PEJSPjxC Uj48QlI+LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS08QlI+Rm9yIAogIGFzc2lzdGFuY2Ugd2l0aCB0aGlzIGxpc3Qs IHBsZWFzZSB2aXNpdCA8QSAKICBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vbGlzdHMuZHNvcC5jb20iPmh0dHA6Ly9s aXN0cy5kc29wLmNvbTwvQT4uPEJSPjwvRk9OVD48L1A+PC9CTE9DS1FVT1RFPgoKPC9CT0RZPgo8 L0hUTUw+ ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3A3C1.FE75297C-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 18:23:55 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "sjlash" Subject: Re: [PRR] The first in a series. --------------Boundary-00=_VNJWQL80000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jamie, Just off the top of my head, it would seem that the picture woul= d be in southern Ohio. If I'm not mistaken, this would have been the Panhandle and would have gone in the direction of St Louis. I'm quite sure there are people on this list that will pin it down for you . Jim=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: Jamie Bothwell=0D Date: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 12:23:07 AM=0D To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=0D Subject: [PRR] The first in a series.=0D =0D Good evening,=0D On page 116 of "Pennsylvania Railroad" by Schafer and Solomon in the=0D "Railroad Color History" series there is a photo of a pair of=0D Centipedes on single track pulling what is claimed to be the American=0D through Manchester, OH in April, 1952. My road atlas list two=0D Manchesters in Ohio. One is way down along the Ohio River, so there is=0D no chance of a Pennsy line through there. The other is between Akron=0D and Massillon. I find it hard to believe the American would be calling=0D at either of these Manchesters on a regular basis. As a St. Louis=0D train the American would have traveled through Coshocton, Dennison, and=0D Steubenville. A 1952 timetable shows this train through eastern Ohio=0D in the early to to mid morning, but not so early that the sun wouldn't=0D be out. So, is the train shown really the American? Is it really in=0D Manchester? If so, which one, and why? If not, what train is it,=0D and/or where was the photo taken?=0D Jamie Bothwell=0D =0D =0D -----------------------------------------------------------------------=0D For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.=0D =0D =2E --------------Boundary-00=_VNJWQL80000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 Jamie,  Just off the top of my head, it would seem that t= he picture would be in southern Ohio.   If I'm not mistaken, th= is would have been the Panhandle  and would have gone in the directi= on of St Louis.   I'm quite sure there are people on this list = that will pin it down for you .  Jim
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: Wednesday, N= ovember 05, 2003 12:23:07 AM
Subject: [PRR] The= first in a series.
 
Good evening,
  On page 116 of "Pennsylvania Railroad" by Schafer and Solomon= in the
"Railroad Color History" series there is a photo of a pair of
Centipedes on single track pulling what is claimed to be the America= n
through Manchester, OH in April, 1952. My road atlas list two
Manchesters in Ohio. One is way down along the Ohio River, so there = is
no chance of a Pennsy line through there. The other is between Akron=
and Massillon. I find it hard to believe the American would be calli= ng
at either of these Manchesters on a regular basis. As a St. Louis
train the American would have traveled through Coshocton, Dennison, = and
Steubenville. A 1952 timetable shows this train through eastern Ohio=
in the early to to mid morning, but not so early that the sun wouldn= 't
be out. So, is the train shown really the American? Is it really in<= /DIV>
Manchester? If so, which one, and why? If not, what train is it,
and/or where was the photo taken?
Jamie Bothwell
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------= ---
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.
 
.
--------------Boundary-00=_VNJWQL80000000000000-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 19:59:23 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] J1 at Enola? --part1_105.38f215e4.2cdaf6eb_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All: According to the April 24, 1955 ETT No. 8, the J class locomotives were prohibited on the Middle Division mainline from the Philadelphia division post to BELL and all branches except Bald Eagle from Lock Haven to Park, Clearfield from Park to Tyrone, Holidaysburg ALTO to Jones Street Holidaysburg. This raises several questions. Since the J's were permitted from Loch Haven to Tyrone but not from Tyrone to BELL, where did they originate. The only possibility is the Williamsport Division. It is also impossible for a J to get to Enola via the Middle Division mainline, as they are only permitted from SLOPE to ANTIS on the mainline. J's were permitted across the entire length of the Buffalo Division ETT No. 9 date April 30, 1950. I do not have a copy of the Renovo Division, williamsport Division and Sesquehanna Division ETT to check the rule 1160-A2 for these divisions. FYI the Q's had the same restrictions as the J's in the September 28, 1947 ETT No. 10 Rich Orr --part1_105.38f215e4.2cdaf6eb_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All:

According to the April 24, 1955 ETT No. 8, the J class locomotives were proh= ibited on the Middle Division mainline from the Philadelphia division post t= o BELL and all branches except Bald Eagle from Lock Haven to Park, Clearfiel= d  from Park to Tyrone, Holidaysburg ALTO to Jones Street Holidaysburg.=

This raises several questions.  Since the J's were permitted from Loch=20= Haven to Tyrone but not from Tyrone to BELL, where did they originate. = The only possibility is the Williamsport Division.

It is also impossible for a J to get to Enola via the Middle Division mainli= ne,  as they are only permitted from SLOPE to ANTIS on the mainline.
J's were permitted across the entire length of the Buffalo Division ETT No.=20= 9 date April 30, 1950.  I do not have a copy of the Renovo Division, wi= lliamsport Division and Sesquehanna Division ETT to check the rule 1160-A2 f= or these divisions.

FYI the Q's had the same restrictions as the J's in the September 28, 1947 E= TT No. 10

Rich Orr --part1_105.38f215e4.2cdaf6eb_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] J1 at Enola? Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 20:18:59 -0500 On Nov 5, 2003, at 7:59 PM, SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote: > According to the April 24, 1955 ETT No. 8, t... When all else fails, check the official PRR documentation! Yes, I just checked the 9/1954 ETT's for the Susquehanna, Philadelphia, and Middle Divisions. No way J's were running into Enola at that time. With all due respect, those who reported seeing them either mistook the class of loco they saw, or their memory of era was off. Perhaps at another time they ran into Enola. Other possibility: The Marysville Yard in the 1950's became a yard for "soon to be scrapped" steamers. Perhaps the J's were run into Enola, somewhat stripped, then pulled out to Marysville until scrapping time. The era would be correct. Just a thought. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: [PRR] More cabin fever... Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:43:54 -0700 Hi again gize... One more item...I've noticed that according to NJ INternational's Cabin Cars of the Pennsylvania and Long Island Railroads, Caboose (sic) Data Book No. 2, classes N5a and N5b were fitted with Duryea underframes. Apparently later era (1960's) photos of these cars do not show any evidence of these underframes...anyone know the story on these? Would they still be on cars in the late 40's~early 50's era? When were they removed (if they were indeed removed?) And does anyone know a good online source of photos...preferable in service (and would it be too much to ask for color?) during this era? Yeah...I know it's more than one item, but that's the way it is... Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 00:15:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] J1 at Enola? Add this to the J1 clearence problems..... An old timer PRR worker told me a story about the J1s not being permitted west of Kittanning Point because of side swipes or near side swipes on Horseshoe Curve. He also said that in the early months of the J1s, they were mostly working east from Conemaugh/West slope via the New Portage. There is some published reports about J1s and side swipes. I don't know the year but PRR did spread the tracks out (at Horseshoe) farther because of the J and T class locomotives. Anyone have any info on this? Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:25:47 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Shipment of Potatos Received! From: Jerry Britton A few weeks ago we discussed the Maine potatoes that came into the Pennsy system via the BAR by way of the CP and D&H to Wilkes-Barre, then to Enola by train S-83. It was discussed that the "potato block" of this train (in 1954) would include a bunch of the red, white, and blue "State of Maine" BAR or New Haven box cars, perhaps a few PFE cars, and maybe even a few of the white MDT cars. Well, I already assigned a dozen of the BAR cars and a single MDT car, with plans for 2-3 PFE cars. Long ago Atlas had run a NH "SoM" car, but they are few and far between. Lo and behold, yesterday I received an unexpected package: A single NH "SoM" box car from lister Fred Freitas for use on this train, with a note indicating it contains potatoes! Gotta love it, thanks, Fred! With that gift-in-kind investment, Fred is now a minority stockholder in the PRR Eastern Region... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/stock.ws4d ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 07:38:43 -0800 (PST) From: Frank Smith Subject: [PRR] PRR piggyback trailers Hello, I have a question regarding short piggyback trailers, circa 1940s and 50's. What color were they? Were they tuscan like the later Tructrain trailers? Thanks for any info. Frank Smith __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:35:46 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] J1 at Enola? zootowerprr@webtv.net wrote: > I don't know the year but PRR did spread the tracks out (at >Horseshoe) farther because of the J and T class locomotives. Anyone have >any info on this? > Summer of 1945; foreman was Art Julian (now a retired professor and a volunteer with the Gallitzin tunnels museum) and a crew of 40 Mexican track workers. Started with Number 1 track and worked outward, one track at a time, doing 20 rail lengths per day. Details are on page 55 of Horseshoe Heritage. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR piggyback trailers Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 16:53:52 +0000 Frank Smith asked: "I have a question regarding short piggyback trailers, circa 1940s and 50's." No such thing as a Pennsy piggyback trailer "circa 1940s" - service wasn't inaugurated until 1954. "What color were they? Were they tuscan like the later Tructrain trailers?" Yes, but they appeared to be painted a darker shade than the later trailers: http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?photo=PR475462.JPG&fr=clF30 Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:07:07 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Sanborn map source From: Alex Charyna I got my first CD of maps from "seleniteman". Pretty handy for answering some questions I had about the Reading through my home town. Be aware that 1 map isn't really a complete map. For Collegeville, Pa he had 8 available, but they're really one "index" map, and 7 smaller, but higher detail, ones. -alex On Thursday, Oct 30, 2003, at 11:37 US/Eastern, ndbprr@att.net wrote: > I came across a source of Sanborn maps with a couple of caveats. This > person > will supply Sanborn maps on CD for $1.00 per map and $5.00 handling. > If the > order is more than 50 maps he gives a 10% discount and does not charge > for > shipping and handling. The only consideration (and it could be one) > is that > he is only allowed to sell maps up through the 1927 series. The web > page is > www.utahice.com which lists what is available from him by state. The > e mail > contact if you know the map designation(s) is seleniteman@comcast.net. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:09:35 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR piggyback trailers From: Jerry Britton On Thursday, November 6, 2003, at 11:53 AM, b.hom@att.net wrote: > Frank Smith asked: > "I have a question regarding short piggyback trailers, > circa 1940s and 50's." > > No such thing as a Pennsy piggyback trailer "circa 1940s" - service > wasn't > inaugurated until 1954. A technical clarification is in order here. True, the Pennsy did not have its own TOFC service until 1954. June, 1954. And it wasn't named "TrucTrain" until December 1954. However, the Pennsy did have a fleet of trailers prior to that. They offered "Keystone Merchandise Service" which trucked customer shipments between their sites and the freight stations. As of the early 1950's, these trailers were typically 24' and 26', single-axle, rounded front, curb side door. They had the "PENNSYLVANIA" name running in large letters diagonally from lower left to upper right. Each of the opposing open corners had keystone logos. Within one read "KEYSTONE MERCHANDISE SERVICE" and within the other "DOOR TO DOOR". When Pennsy TOFC service started, these trailers were used. However, the Pennsy soon ordered longer trailers to maximize use of the service. They started arriving late in 1954, about the time that the F39 flats started arriving. Besides "traditional" trailers, the Pennsy also owned flat bed trailers, open top trailers, and (I believe) a few tank trailers. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR piggyback trailers Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:32:02 -0500 Re: "I have a question regarding short piggyback trailers, circa 1940s and 50's." Paul Backenstose is in the process of writing an article on scratch building the 30' and 32' early flat end trailers for TKM. Re: "What color were they? Were they Tuscan like the later TrucTrain trailers?" This is a confusing question as the later larger TrucTrain trailers were NOT Tuscan they were a bright red, more like if not Toluidine red. The earlier trailers were a darker brownish red. I really don't know if they were a true Tuscan red or not. This was true of the PRR's motor vehicles also. The earlier were darker, the later brighter red and the MW department hi-rail vehicles were yellow. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR piggyback trailers Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:20:50 -0500 I heard mention on another group that Sunshine's coming out with piggyback trailers in the near future, supposedly based on PRR trailers. Does anyone have any info on these? Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Al Buchan > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 12:32 PM > To: b.hom@att.net; 'Frank Smith' > Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR piggyback trailers > > > Re: "I have a question regarding short piggyback trailers, circa 1940s > and 50's." > > Paul Backenstose is in the process of writing an article on scratch > building the 30' and 32' early flat end trailers for TKM. > > Re: "What color were they? Were they Tuscan like the later TrucTrain > trailers?" > > This is a confusing question as the later larger TrucTrain trailers were > NOT Tuscan they were a bright red, more like if not Toluidine red. The > earlier trailers were a darker brownish red. I really don't know if they > were a true Tuscan red or not. This was true of the PRR's motor vehicles > also. The earlier were darker, the later brighter red and the MW > department hi-rail vehicles were yellow. > > Al > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR piggyback trailers Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 19:15:27 +0000 Rob Schoenberg asked: I heard mention on another group that Sunshine's coming out with piggyback trailers in the near future, supposedly based on PRR trailers. Does anyone have any info on these? Sunshine showed test shots of short trailers for PRR, B&O, NKP, and DL&W at the Naperville PM meet. No release date yet. BTW, other items of interest to the Pennsy modeler coming in the near future (no set release date) are Fruit Growers Express war emergency reefers and plug door ice reefers. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:00:06 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Centipedes on the main through Dayton? In a message dated 11/5/03 11:47:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: [PRR] The first in a series. > From: "sjlash" > Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 18:23:55 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) > > > --------------Boundary-00=_VNJWQL80000000000000 > Content-Type: Text/Plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Jamie, Just off the top of my head, it would seem that the picture woul= > d > be in southern Ohio. If I'm not mistaken, this would have been the > Panhandle and would have gone in the direction of St Louis. I'm quite > sure there are people on this list that will pin it down for you . Jim=0D > =0D > -------Original Message-------=0D > =0D > From: Jamie Bothwell=0D > Date: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 12:23:07 AM=0D > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=0D > Subject: [PRR] The first in a series.=0D > =0D > Good evening,=0D > On page 116 of "Pennsylvania Railroad" by Schafer and Solomon in the=0D > "Railroad Color History" series there is a photo of a pair of=0D > Centipedes on single track pulling what is claimed to be the American=0D > through Manchester, OH in April, 1952. My road atlas list two=0D > Manchesters in Ohio. One is way down along the Ohio River, so there is=0D > no chance of a Pennsy line through there. The other is between Akron=0D > and Massillon. I find it hard to believe the American would be calling=0D > at either of these Manchesters on a regular basis. As a St. Louis=0D > train the American would have traveled through Coshocton, Dennison, and=0D > Steubenville. A 1952 timetable shows this train through eastern Ohio=0D > in the early to to mid morning, but not so early that the sun wouldn't=0D > be out. So, is the train shown really the American? Is it really in=0D > Manchester? If so, which one, and why? If not, what train is it,=0D > and/or where was the photo taken?=0D > Jamie Bothwell=0D Especially since this is an R.D. Acton, Sr. photo, one suspects that West Manchester, on the St. Louis main west of Dayton, could be the location. Can anyone verify that the pole line there is on the south side? For the historian, this line started -- and almost died -- as the Dayton & Western, was picked up by the Little Miami Railroad circa 1853, which was in turn leased to the Panhandle (PC&StL) in 1869. Believe it was part of the Cincinnati Division until 1928, and then became part of the Columbus (later Buckeye) Division. The route through Dayton specialized in east-west passenger (and mail) trains; most freights passed through Urbana, bypassing ugly grades and short sidings between Xenia and New Paris OH. Abandonment came by 1978. This photo is a bit of a revelation, since I didn't locate/recognize any Centipede pix several years ago when putting together a program on Dayton Ohio. Further, I don't have any Centipede shots for the Cincinnati article now in prep. I never met R.D., but I've bought some great prints he shot with K4s in and out of Dayton (I grew up on the main between Dayton and Xenia). Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:00:06 EST Subject: [PRR] Centipedes on the main through Dayton? --part1_180.21fa051c.2cdc1e66_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/5/03 11:47:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: [PRR] The first in a series. > From: "sjlash" > Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 18:23:55 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) > > > --------------Boundary-00=_VNJWQL80000000000000 > Content-Type: Text/Plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Jamie, Just off the top of my head, it would seem that the picture woul= > d > be in southern Ohio. If I'm not mistaken, this would have been the > Panhandle and would have gone in the direction of St Louis. I'm quite > sure there are people on this list that will pin it down for you . Jim=0D > =0D > -------Original Message-------=0D > =0D > From: Jamie Bothwell=0D > Date: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 12:23:07 AM=0D > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=0D > Subject: [PRR] The first in a series.=0D > =0D > Good evening,=0D > On page 116 of "Pennsylvania Railroad" by Schafer and Solomon in the=0D > "Railroad Color History" series there is a photo of a pair of=0D > Centipedes on single track pulling what is claimed to be the American=0D > through Manchester, OH in April, 1952. My road atlas list two=0D > Manchesters in Ohio. One is way down along the Ohio River, so there is=0D > no chance of a Pennsy line through there. The other is between Akron=0D > and Massillon. I find it hard to believe the American would be calling=0D > at either of these Manchesters on a regular basis. As a St. Louis=0D > train the American would have traveled through Coshocton, Dennison, and=0D > Steubenville. A 1952 timetable shows this train through eastern Ohio=0D > in the early to to mid morning, but not so early that the sun wouldn't=0D > be out. So, is the train shown really the American? Is it really in=0D > Manchester? If so, which one, and why? If not, what train is it,=0D > and/or where was the photo taken?=0D > Jamie Bothwell=0D Especially since this is an R.D. Acton, Sr. photo, one suspects that West Manchester, on the St. Louis main west of Dayton, could be the location. Can anyone verify that the pole line there is on the south side? For the historian, this line started -- and almost died -- as the Dayton & Western, was picked up by the Little Miami Railroad circa 1853, which was in turn leased to the Panhandle (PC&StL) in 1869. Believe it was part of the Cincinnati Division until 1928, and then became part of the Columbus (later Buckeye) Division. The route through Dayton specialized in east-west passenger (and mail) trains; most freights passed through Urbana, bypassing ugly grades and short sidings between Xenia and New Paris OH. Abandonment came by 1978. This photo is a bit of a revelation, since I didn't locate/recognize any Centipede pix several years ago when putting together a program on Dayton Ohio. Further, I don't have any Centipede shots for the Cincinnati article now in prep. I never met R.D., but I've bought some great prints he shot with K4s in and out of Dayton (I grew up on the main between Dayton and Xenia). Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West --part1_180.21fa051c.2cdc1e66_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-T