Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 05:52:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Talasco Subject: [PRR] 2DF8 Trucks OK, I know I may be just wishing again.... has anyone ever made these trucks in O Scale? Fred ===== Fred Talasco "There is just one thing I can promise you about the outer-space program - your tax-dollar will go further." Wernher von Braun __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Nesbitt" Subject: [PRR] Freight on corridor Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 09:35:37 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C387FF.5F107470 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know if there is still any freight trains that on the NE corridor through Philadelphia ? I live fairly close to corridor and could swear I hear the diesel horns, the rumble multible loco's and the slower moving "Clickty-clack" of the wheels late at night and early in the morning. Thanks Kenny ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C387FF.5F107470 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Does = anyone know if=20 there is still any freight trains that on the NE corridor through = Philadelphia=20 ?
I live = fairly close=20 to corridor and could swear I hear the diesel horns, the rumble multible = loco's and the slower moving "Clickty-clack" of the wheels late at = night=20 and early in the morning.
 
Thanks
 
Kenny
------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C387FF.5F107470-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] MR review of BLI G Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 15:11:08 +0000 Don't get MR any more but note they reviewed the BLI G in the lastest issue. What were their conclusions? Thanks ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Freight on corridor Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:01:12 -0400 Ken, As far as I can tell you, CSX/NS still run freights early morning and Late Evenings. I've seen them north of Holmesburg along I-95 some mornings. -John ----------------------------------------------------------- Does anyone know if there is still any freight trains that on the NE corridor through Philadelphia ? I live fairly close to corridor and could swear I hear the diesel horns, the rumble multible loco's and the slower moving "Clickty-clack" of the wheels late at night and early in the morning. Thanks Kenny ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:31:59 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] MR review of BLI G From: Bruce Smith On Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 10:11 AM, ndbprr@att.net wrote: > Don't get MR any more but note they reviewed the BLI G in the lastest > issue. > What were their conclusions? Thanks Terry Thompson, editor of MR, is a former toy train editor, and he thought everything was just ducky . No mention of color or drive problems and only an oblique reference to cast on details, missing or inappropriate details and the european NEM coupler box (which necessitates the funky kadee). Of course, I am biased about which review I think has been most accurate so far Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Railfest - Altoona Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:51:00 -0400 Is anyone from either of these lists going to Railfest? I will be there late tomorrow (leaving tomorrow morning, so won't see my e-mails after first thing tomorrow morning). I will be in the museum late morning/early afternoon on Friday, then plan to start somewhere in the vicinity of Rose Tower/East Altoona and work my way west as far as I can get by dark. Saturday I'll pick up where I left off - Brickyard, Curve, Galitzin, Cresson, as time permits, resuming on Sun. Once things get set up in the museum yard with the live steam, I'll check that out and the model RR displays in the adjacent mall. I have a ticket to ride on Bennett's Warrior Ridge on the 3:15 excursion on Sunday, then leave for home. Hope to see some of you there. Bill Bigler - 4915 Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 13:26:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Circuit Boards List, Anyone using DCC in here have any of the Circuit Boards that you removed from the Athearn Genesis F Units so that you could mount your DCC Decoder? I need at least a handful of these plain jane Circuit Boards so if you have them lying around in your supplies, drop me an email. Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Nesbitt" Subject: RE: [PRR] MR review of BLI G Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 13:39:12 -0400 The reviewed had a overall tone of an outstanding locomotive model. Nothing was wrong with it, everything was great. Seemed a little biased. I myself am glad to see a company like BLI sell a feature rich model and roughly the same cost as a Life Like model, I think Spectum, Proto 2000, Genesis, are all getting way out of hand with the prices. Thanks Kenny -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of ndbprr@att.net Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:11 AM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] MR review of BLI G Don't get MR any more but note they reviewed the BLI G in the lastest issue. What were their conclusions? Thanks ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _____________________________________________________ This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: RE: [PRR] MR review of BLI G Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 17:54:33 +0000 Kenny Nesbitt wrote: The review had a overall tone of an outstanding locomotive model. Nothing was wrong with it, everything was great. Seemed a little biased. Frankly, if you're looking for an honest product review, you won't find it in a mainstream model magazine. Advertising income is a huge chunk of the bottom line, and the publishers fear any review that can be perceived as negative may result in retaliation from manufacturers in the form of lost advertising dollars. I think the last negative product review that I saw in MR was for the first run of C&BT Santa Fe reefers, and this was because the kits really did have significant fit and assembly problems. This makes independent forums such as TKM and PRR-Talk all that more crucial in getting honest information out to the consumer. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: RE: [PRR] MR review of BLI G Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 17:54:33 +0000 Kenny Nesbitt wrote: The review had a overall tone of an outstanding locomotive model. Nothing was wrong with it, everything was great. Seemed a little biased. Frankly, if you're looking for an honest product review, you won't find it in a mainstream model magazine. Advertising income is a huge chunk of the bottom line, and the publishers fear any review that can be perceived as negative may result in retaliation from manufacturers in the form of lost advertising dollars. I think the last negative product review that I saw in MR was for the first run of C&BT Santa Fe reefers, and this was because the kits really did have significant fit and assembly problems. This makes independent forums such as TKM and PRR-Talk all that more crucial in getting honest information out to the consumer. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] MR review of BLI G Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:01:22 -0400 I've gotten my issue of MR, but have not had a chance to read the review. I probably don't even have to. BLI advertises in MR and some of their other advertisers carry BLI products. The review will be very positive, I'm sure. In spite of some of the discrepencies discussed in detail on this list the MR review will proclaim this model the greatest thing since sliced bread. I'll go home tonight and read the review for myself... Just to make sure I haven't lied to you. Buzz -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Smith [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu] Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 12:32 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] MR review of BLI G On Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 10:11 AM, ndbprr@att.net wrote: > Don't get MR any more but note they reviewed the BLI G in the lastest > issue. > What were their conclusions? Thanks Terry Thompson, editor of MR, is a former toy train editor, and he thought everything was just ducky . No mention of color or drive problems and only an oblique reference to cast on details, missing or inappropriate details and the european NEM coupler box (which necessitates the funky kadee). Of course, I am biased about which review I think has been most accurate so far Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. **************************************************************************** This e-mail and any attachment may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential or subject to copyright belonging to Conectiv or its subsidiaries (Conectiv). This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the person to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or other action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout. Conectiv policy expressly prohibits employees from making Defamatory or offensive statements and infringing any copyright or any other legal right by email communications. Conectiv will not accept any liability in respect of such communications. The employee responsible will be personally liable for any damages or other liability so arising. **************************************************************************** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: RE: [PRR] MR review of BLI G Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 17:54:33 +0000 Kenny Nesbitt wrote: The review had a overall tone of an outstanding locomotive model. Nothing was wrong with it, everything was great. Seemed a little biased. Frankly, if you're looking for an honest product review, you won't find it in a mainstream model magazine. Advertising income is a huge chunk of the bottom line, and the publishers fear any review that can be perceived as negative may result in retaliation from manufacturers in the form of lost advertising dollars. I think the last negative product review that I saw in MR was for the first run of C&BT Santa Fe reefers, and this was because the kits really did have significant fit and assembly problems. This makes independent forums such as TKM and PRR-Talk all that more crucial in getting honest information out to the consumer. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] MR review of BLI G Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:01:22 -0400 I've gotten my issue of MR, but have not had a chance to read the review. I probably don't even have to. BLI advertises in MR and some of their other advertisers carry BLI products. The review will be very positive, I'm sure. In spite of some of the discrepencies discussed in detail on this list the MR review will proclaim this model the greatest thing since sliced bread. I'll go home tonight and read the review for myself... Just to make sure I haven't lied to you. Buzz -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Smith [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu] Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 12:32 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] MR review of BLI G On Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 10:11 AM, ndbprr@att.net wrote: > Don't get MR any more but note they reviewed the BLI G in the lastest > issue. > What were their conclusions? Thanks Terry Thompson, editor of MR, is a former toy train editor, and he thought everything was just ducky . No mention of color or drive problems and only an oblique reference to cast on details, missing or inappropriate details and the european NEM coupler box (which necessitates the funky kadee). Of course, I am biased about which review I think has been most accurate so far Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. **************************************************************************** This e-mail and any attachment may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential or subject to copyright belonging to Conectiv or its subsidiaries (Conectiv). This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the person to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or other action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout. Conectiv policy expressly prohibits employees from making Defamatory or offensive statements and infringing any copyright or any other legal right by email communications. Conectiv will not accept any liability in respect of such communications. The employee responsible will be personally liable for any damages or other liability so arising. **************************************************************************** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: RE: [PRR] MR review of BLI G Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 17:54:33 +0000 Kenny Nesbitt wrote: The review had a overall tone of an outstanding locomotive model. Nothing was wrong with it, everything was great. Seemed a little biased. Frankly, if you're looking for an honest product review, you won't find it in a mainstream model magazine. Advertising income is a huge chunk of the bottom line, and the publishers fear any review that can be perceived as negative may result in retaliation from manufacturers in the form of lost advertising dollars. I think the last negative product review that I saw in MR was for the first run of C&BT Santa Fe reefers, and this was because the kits really did have significant fit and assembly problems. This makes independent forums such as TKM and PRR-Talk all that more crucial in getting honest information out to the consumer. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] MR review of BLI G Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:01:22 -0400 I've gotten my issue of MR, but have not had a chance to read the review. I probably don't even have to. BLI advertises in MR and some of their other advertisers carry BLI products. The review will be very positive, I'm sure. In spite of some of the discrepencies discussed in detail on this list the MR review will proclaim this model the greatest thing since sliced bread. I'll go home tonight and read the review for myself... Just to make sure I haven't lied to you. Buzz -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Smith [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu] Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 12:32 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] MR review of BLI G On Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 10:11 AM, ndbprr@att.net wrote: > Don't get MR any more but note they reviewed the BLI G in the lastest > issue. > What were their conclusions? Thanks Terry Thompson, editor of MR, is a former toy train editor, and he thought everything was just ducky . No mention of color or drive problems and only an oblique reference to cast on details, missing or inappropriate details and the european NEM coupler box (which necessitates the funky kadee). Of course, I am biased about which review I think has been most accurate so far Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. **************************************************************************** This e-mail and any attachment may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential or subject to copyright belonging to Conectiv or its subsidiaries (Conectiv). This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the person to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or other action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout. Conectiv policy expressly prohibits employees from making Defamatory or offensive statements and infringing any copyright or any other legal right by email communications. Conectiv will not accept any liability in respect of such communications. The employee responsible will be personally liable for any damages or other liability so arising. **************************************************************************** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:08:05 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Any Surviving F30d Flats? From: Jerry Britton Does anyone know of any surviving F30d flat cars? These were the cars converted from F30 for TrucTrain use. Trying to find one for a manufacturer for reference. Can be ex-PRR or ex-TTX. TOFC features preferred intact. Thanks! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: RE: [PRR] MR review of BLI G Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 17:54:33 +0000 Kenny Nesbitt wrote: The review had a overall tone of an outstanding locomotive model. Nothing was wrong with it, everything was great. Seemed a little biased. Frankly, if you're looking for an honest product review, you won't find it in a mainstream model magazine. Advertising income is a huge chunk of the bottom line, and the publishers fear any review that can be perceived as negative may result in retaliation from manufacturers in the form of lost advertising dollars. I think the last negative product review that I saw in MR was for the first run of C&BT Santa Fe reefers, and this was because the kits really did have significant fit and assembly problems. This makes independent forums such as TKM and PRR-Talk all that more crucial in getting honest information out to the consumer. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] MR review of BLI G Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:01:22 -0400 I've gotten my issue of MR, but have not had a chance to read the review. I probably don't even have to. BLI advertises in MR and some of their other advertisers carry BLI products. The review will be very positive, I'm sure. In spite of some of the discrepencies discussed in detail on this list the MR review will proclaim this model the greatest thing since sliced bread. I'll go home tonight and read the review for myself... Just to make sure I haven't lied to you. Buzz -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Smith [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu] Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 12:32 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] MR review of BLI G On Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 10:11 AM, ndbprr@att.net wrote: > Don't get MR any more but note they reviewed the BLI G in the lastest > issue. > What were their conclusions? Thanks Terry Thompson, editor of MR, is a former toy train editor, and he thought everything was just ducky . No mention of color or drive problems and only an oblique reference to cast on details, missing or inappropriate details and the european NEM coupler box (which necessitates the funky kadee). Of course, I am biased about which review I think has been most accurate so far Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. **************************************************************************** This e-mail and any attachment may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential or subject to copyright belonging to Conectiv or its subsidiaries (Conectiv). This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the person to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or other action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout. Conectiv policy expressly prohibits employees from making Defamatory or offensive statements and infringing any copyright or any other legal right by email communications. Conectiv will not accept any liability in respect of such communications. The employee responsible will be personally liable for any damages or other liability so arising. **************************************************************************** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:08:05 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Any Surviving F30d Flats? From: Jerry Britton Does anyone know of any surviving F30d flat cars? These were the cars converted from F30 for TrucTrain use. Trying to find one for a manufacturer for reference. Can be ex-PRR or ex-TTX. TOFC features preferred intact. Thanks! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] MR review of BLI G Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 13:46:17 -0500 I'm not sure I can agree with this. Read the review on the recent Bachmann USRA Heavy in last month's MR. While in general the tone was positive, the reviewer noted several shortcomings in that particular model. I think one needs to read between the lines sometimes to find a model's true shortcomings. -----Original Message----- From: b.hom@att.net [mailto:b.hom@att.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 12:55 PM To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] MR review of BLI G Kenny Nesbitt wrote: The review had a overall tone of an outstanding locomotive model. Nothing was wrong with it, everything was great. Seemed a little biased. Frankly, if you're looking for an honest product review, you won't find it in a mainstream model magazine. Advertising income is a huge chunk of the bottom line, and the publishers fear any review that can be perceived as negative may result in retaliation from manufacturers in the form of lost advertising dollars. I think the last negative product review that I saw in MR was for the first run of C&BT Santa Fe reefers, and this was because the kits really did have significant fit and assembly problems. This makes independent forums such as TKM and PRR-Talk all that more crucial in getting honest information out to the consumer. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:49:23 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Open House List From: Jerry Britton Last month was the teaser because I had received some open house info. Now, being October, it's time to get serious with the open house listings. Most are held in November, with some spilling into December. If your private or club layout will be having a formal public open house this holiday season please consider sending the details to me for posting on the Timetable page of Keystone Crossings... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/timetable.ws4d Several dates already listed. You must provide complete info in one e-mail, though, not piecemeal. I need 1. Name of the club or layout 2. 2-3 sentence description, including PRR content 3. Dates and times of open house(s) 4. Address. Thanks! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: RE: [PRR] MR review of BLI G Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 19:10:50 +0000 Marvin Caldwell wrote: I'm not sure I can agree with this. Read the review on the recent Bachmann USRA Heavy in last month's MR. While in general the tone was positive, the reviewer noted several shortcomings in that particular model. I think one needs to read between the lines sometimes to find a model's true shortcomings. But my point is that the consumer shouldn't have to read between the lines to get that information! The higher price of today's products makes it even more imperative for the consumer to know what he's getting for his hobby dollar. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] MR review of BLI G Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:24:29 -0500 I don't doubt what you say. With regard to the Bachmann model, enough information was supplied to indicate there were quality control problems with the particular model. I think there are very few specialty magazines which give anything less than a positive analysis of the products they review. The car magazines fall into this category. The only magazine I know of that is not entirely positive about the products they review is Consumer's Report, which to avoid any bias whatsoever, accepts no advertizing. -----Original Message----- From: b.hom@att.net [mailto:b.hom@att.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 2:11 PM To: Cadwell, Marvin L Cc: Prr-Talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] MR review of BLI G Marvin Caldwell wrote: I'm not sure I can agree with this. Read the review on the recent Bachmann USRA Heavy in last month's MR. While in general the tone was positive, the reviewer noted several shortcomings in that particular model. I think one needs to read between the lines sometimes to find a model's true shortcomings. But my point is that the consumer shouldn't have to read between the lines to get that information! The higher price of today's products makes it even more imperative for the consumer to know what he's getting for his hobby dollar. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Pete Reinhold" Subject: RE: [PRR] MR review of BLI G Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:36:10 -0500 Ben Horn replyed: But my point is that the consumer shouldn't have to read between the lines to get that information! The higher price of today's products makes it even more imperative for the consumer to know what he's getting for his hobby dollar. --- Ben you took the words right out of my mouth!! I thank the guys here on the list for serving up the truth on model reviews. I can't trust the hobby press for a straight to the point review. My hobby dollars are not easy to come by and I need to know if the product is a peach or a lemon. Pete Reinhold ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: RE: [PRR] MR review of BLI G Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 20:08:33 +0000 Marvin Caldwell wrote: "I think there are very few specialty magazines which give anything less than a positive analysis of the products they review. The car magazines fall into this category. The only magazine I know of that is not entirely positive about the products they review is Consumer's Report, which to avoid any bias whatsoever, accepts no advertising." Consumer's Report is an outstanding magazine, and maybe that's the kind of approach we need to take. Unfortunately, independence comes at a price. None of us are independently wealthy enough to support a venture such as this. The organization who should be doing this, the NMRA National, simply doesn't have the staff and, as their current status shows, has trouble keeping its own house in order, much less act as an aggressive advocate for the hobbyist. Still, imagine the Bulletin remodeled along the lines of Consumer Reports - now there's a membership benefit worth the money! We're starting to wander way off-topic here - please direct comments to me off-list. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Louis Judice" Subject: RE: [PRR] MR review of BLI G Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 16:16:00 -0500 Just one point - MR has a very broad circulation. BLI is surely aiming at a wide market. Add these two factors together and the review will probably be seen as "fair and balanced" by the majority of readers. In circles where there is a lot more prototype knowledge, there is a lot more to criticize, and that criticism is well taken by the narrower band of readers.... Cheers, Lou -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Cadwell, Marvin L Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 2:24 PM To: 'b.hom@att.net' Cc: Prr-Talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] MR review of BLI G I don't doubt what you say. With regard to the Bachmann model, enough information was supplied to indicate there were quality control problems with the particular model. I think there are very few specialty magazines which give anything less than a positive analysis of the products they review. The car magazines fall into this category. The only magazine I know of that is not entirely positive about the products they review is Consumer's Report, which to avoid any bias whatsoever, accepts no advertizing. -----Original Message----- From: b.hom@att.net [mailto:b.hom@att.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 2:11 PM To: Cadwell, Marvin L Cc: Prr-Talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] MR review of BLI G Marvin Caldwell wrote: I'm not sure I can agree with this. Read the review on the recent Bachmann USRA Heavy in last month's MR. While in general the tone was positive, the reviewer noted several shortcomings in that particular model. I think one needs to read between the lines sometimes to find a model's true shortcomings. But my point is that the consumer shouldn't have to read between the lines to get that information! The higher price of today's products makes it even more imperative for the consumer to know what he's getting for his hobby dollar. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Pre-1953 MOW Colors Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 16:22:07 -0400 Re: Does anybody know if the plows painted in the pre-1953 grey scheme had black roofs in addition to the black blades and black plow? Yes, black roofs. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: RE: [PRR] MR review of BLI G Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 20:32:42 +0000 Lou Judice wrote: Just one point - MR has a very broad circulation. BLI is surely aiming at a wide market. Add these two factors together and the review will probably be seen as "fair and balanced" by the majority of readers. In circles where there is a lot more prototype knowledge, there is a lot more to criticize, and that criticism is well taken by the narrower band of readers.... That's true, but wouldn't everyone from the casual buyer to the prototype modeler want to know about a problem as significant as the drivetrain defects on the BLI GG1? This has nothing to do with the size of a magazine's circulation or the size of the target audience. It boils down to what are the merits and shortcomings of a given product. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] 2DF8 Trucks by Kadee Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 09:00:15 -0400 Bob Zoeller wrote: ...but since I would only use an undec Bowser X31 to get the color right anyway, I will build the Sunshine X31s). Amen. The other thing about the Bowser X31 paint and lettering that really bothers me is the lettering used for the reporting marks for cars in CK - the font used for "PENNSYLVANIA" is oversize and in the wrong style. This is obvious when the car is near any model with the correct lettering, even a Walthers Trainline X29! (This is bad enough, except they got the lettering right on their X32 and X33 models.) Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Martin Latowsky" Subject: RE: [PRR] 2DF8 Trucks Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:58:55 -0400 Hi Fred, A very accurate model of PRR 2D-F8 will be produced by in O scale by Keystone Model Works (http://www.keystonemodelworks.com). They will be available in both Proto:48 and standard O scale, in both brass and plastic. I've seen a preproduction pair of the trucks, and they are exquisite. Keystone is also planning to produce the 2E-F2 Crown 70-ton trucks. Usual disclaimer applies: I have no connection with the firm except as a satisfied customer. Regards, Martin Latowsky -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Fred Talasco Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 8:53 AM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] 2DF8 Trucks OK, I know I may be just wishing again.... has anyone ever made these trucks in O Scale? Fred ===== Fred Talasco "There is just one thing I can promise you about the outer-space program - your tax-dollar will go further." Wernher von Braun __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:22:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Talasco Subject: [PRR] X-29s in passenger service What color were X-29s painted when in passenger service? Were they Toluide(sp?) Red, or painted Tuscan to match the passenger cars? Thanks!! Fred ===== Fred Talasco "There is just one thing I can promise you about the outer-space program - your tax-dollar will go further." Wernher von Braun __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] X-29s in passenger service Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:41:39 -0400 Fred Talasco asked: What color were X-29s painted when in passenger service? Were they Toluide(sp?) Red, or painted Tuscan to match the passenger cars? Freight Car Color, though they all ended up more grimy than anything else. BTW, lose the dash in the car class. Ben Hom There are NO dashes in PRR car classes... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] MR Review of BLI G Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:51:48 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C38876.FAB1CA60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Bruce Smith" To: "PRR-Talk" No mention of color or drive > problems and only an oblique reference to cast on details, missing or > inappropriate details and the european NEM coupler box (which > necessitates the funky kadee). I believe, from memory, they did mention the NEM coupler box without any comment pro or con. However, reason for my post is one of curiosity: = in the absence of any mention of a traction tire, I assume there was none. = Is this correct, Bruce? I am not in the market for a GG1, but have a bunch = of steamers on order and while not a deal breaker, it might reduce the = order. Bob Zoeller ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C38876.FAB1CA60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
----- Original=20 Message -----
From: "Bruce Smith" <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu>
To: "PRR-Talk" <Prr-Talk@dsop.com>
 No mention of color or drive
> problems and = only an=20 oblique reference to cast on details, missing or
> inappropriate = details=20 and the european NEM coupler box (which
> necessitates the funky=20 kadee).

I believe, from memory, they did mention the NEM coupler = box=20 without any
comment pro or con.  However, reason for my post is = one of=20 curiosity:  in
the absence of any mention of a traction tire, I = assume=20 there was none. Is
this correct, Bruce?  I am not in the market = for a=20 GG1, but have a bunch of
steamers on order and while not a deal = breaker, it=20 might reduce the order.

Bob = Zoeller
------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C38876.FAB1CA60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:05:09 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] MR Review of BLI G From: Bruce Smith --Apple-Mail-6-893363936 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 11:51 PM, Bob Zoeller wrote: > I believe, from memory, they did mention the NEM coupler box without=20= > any > comment pro or con.=A0 However, reason for my post is one of = curiosity:=A0=20 > in > the absence of any mention of a traction tire, I assume there was=20 > none. Is > this correct, Bruce?=A0 I am not in the market for a GG1, but have a=20= > bunch of > steamers on order and while not a deal breaker, it might reduce the=20 > order. No traction tire, and they did give a drawbar pull that was equivalent=20= to at least 16 weighted pass cars (free rolling) on level track, or=20 IIRC 72 freight cars...hey man, for traction, its a hunk a burning=20 love(!) no debate there...so Ken McCorry will be about the only one of=20= us who will NEED to double head them As for BLI and traction tires, they have done steam both ways now. I=20 hope that the M1 is without, and heck, the T1 ought to be, so it can=20 slip prototypically! Happy Rails Bruce --Apple-Mail-6-893363936 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 11:51 PM, Bob Zoeller wrote: Times New RomanI believe, from memory, they did mention the NEM coupler box without any comment pro or con.=A0 However, reason for my post is one of curiosity:=A0= in the absence of any mention of a traction tire, I assume there was none. Is this correct, Bruce?=A0 I am not in the market for a GG1, but have a bunch of steamers on order and while not a deal breaker, it might reduce the order. No traction tire, and they did give a drawbar pull that was equivalent to at least 16 weighted pass cars (free rolling) on level track, or IIRC 72 freight cars...hey man, for traction, its a hunk a burning love(!) no debate there...so Ken McCorry will be about the only one of us who will NEED to double head them < As for BLI and traction tires, they have done steam both ways now. I hope that the M1 is without, and heck, the T1 ought to be, so it can slip prototypically! Happy Rails Bruce --Apple-Mail-6-893363936-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:45:30 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: ealauterbach@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [PRR] MR Review of BLI G When I emailed them about the T1, they said that it had a diecast boiler except for the nose. So it should not require traction tires with that kind of weight. Eric Lauterbach ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 10:17:58 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] X-29s MS Color I was at my dealer yesterday and saw a RTR RC X29 painted for MS. It was a dark "box car" red. The kit version of the same car was the red-orange RC uses on all their other PRR cars. I have come to believe that the red-orange is correct. Is there any basis for this dark chocolate brown on the RTR MS car? Regards, Andrew S. Miller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:26:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] X-29s MS Color From: Jerry Britton On Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 10:17 AM, Andrew S. Miller wrote: > I was at my dealer yesterday and saw a RTR RC X29 painted for MS. It > was a > dark "box car" red. The kit version of the same car was the > red-orange RC > uses on all their other PRR cars. I have come to believe that the > red-orange > is correct. Is there any basis for this dark chocolate brown on the > RTR MS > car? I was a bit surprised at the color as well. Is it a later color? You can see a pic at the top of http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/ms_ar.html WARNING: It's the top of the Advance Reservations page of Merchandise Service. If you take offense to this, please do not proceed. This has been a Public Service Announcement! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: [PRR] Re: X-29s MS Color Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 14:33:40 +0000 Andrew Miller asked: I was at my dealer yesterday and saw a RTR RC X29 painted for MS. It was a dark "box car" red. The kit version of the same car was the red-orange RC uses on all their other PRR cars. I have come to believe that the red-orange is correct. Is there any basis for this dark chocolate brown on the RTR MS car? As luck would have it, I was going through X29 photo sources last night. The only basis for the dark color are from photos of two very weathered cars in MS2 in PRR Color Guides Vol 1 and Vol 2. At any rate, the Class X41 builders photo in PRR Color Guide Vol 3 show a redder shade of FCC MS1 cars, but nowhere near as dark as a "boxcar red" or "tuscan red". FWIW, I'd save my $28.45 on the RTR car and put in the work on one of their kits decorated in MS2. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] X-29s MS Color Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 14:37:41 +0000 Jerry Britton wrote: I was a bit surprised at the color as well. Is it a later color? You can see a pic at the top of http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/ms_ar.html AARRGGHH!!! This is a continuation of the bloody "Tuscan Red" myth for PRR freight cars and is bogus. Who did they consult for color, Walthers? Again, save your money and build one of their decorated kits. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:40:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] X-29s MS Color From: Jerry Britton On Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 10:37 AM, b.hom@att.net wrote: > Jerry Britton wrote: > I was a bit surprised at the color as well. Is it a later color? You > can see a pic at the top of http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/ms_ar.html > > AARRGGHH!!! This is a continuation of the bloody "Tuscan Red" myth > for PRR > freight cars and is bogus. Who did they consult for color, Walthers? > Again, > save your money and build one of their decorated kits. Another thing that boggles my mind is, why are the kits correct? The RtR cars were supposedly built from the kits! Now, the cars are about nine months overdue. Is it possible that the Chinese did such a horrible build-up job that the cars required repainting AFTER they were assembled? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] X-29s MS Color Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 14:44:48 +0000 Jerry Britton wrote: "Another thing that boggles my mind is, why are the kits correct? The RtR cars were supposedly built from the kits! Now, the cars are about nine months overdue. Is it possible that the Chinese did such a horrible build-up job that the cars required repainting AFTER they were assembled?" The MS2 kits I have from an earlier run are in the correct shade of FCC. If the RTR cars are built from the same runs at the kits, this automatically makes any new run of kits suspect. Check the kits before you buy! Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 10:47:55 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] Re: X-29s MS Color Thanx Ben. I prefer kits in any event. I joined this hobby, in part, because I love to build things. I am not about to pay some Chinese girl for the privilege of doing it for me ;-) I deeply regret that the high profit margin on RTR cars is driving kits off the market. Case in in point is the new, long-awaited P85b's. Regards, Andrew S. Miller ======================================================= b.hom@att.net wrote: > Andrew Miller asked: > I was at my dealer yesterday and saw a RTR RC X29 painted for MS. It was a > dark "box car" red. The kit version of the same car was the red-orange RC > uses on all their other PRR cars. I have come to believe that the red-orange > is correct. Is there any basis for this dark chocolate brown on the RTR MS > car? > > As luck would have it, I was going through X29 photo sources last night. The > only basis for the dark color are from photos of two very weathered cars in > MS2 in PRR Color Guides Vol 1 and Vol 2. At any rate, the Class X41 builders > photo in PRR Color Guide Vol 3 show a redder shade of FCC MS1 cars, but > nowhere near as dark as a "boxcar red" or "tuscan red". FWIW, I'd save my > $28.45 on the RTR car and put in the work on one of their kits decorated in > MS2. > > Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:00:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: X-29s MS Color From: Jerry Britton On Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 10:47 AM, Andrew S. Miller wrote: > I prefer kits in any event. I joined this hobby, in part, because I > love to > build things. I am not about to pay some Chinese girl for the > privilege of doing > it for me ;-) I deeply regret that the high profit margin on RTR > cars is > driving kits off the market. Case in in point is the new, long-awaited > P85b's. Andrew, profit margins are the same, just a higher base price. I appreciate your interest in building kits. For those of us who prefer RtR, consider the recent P85b's in N scale. The retail was $39.95. The retail on the kit already available was $26.95. Add to that MicroScale decals (stripes and names) for $8. Add to that MicroTrains couplers for $3 or so. Since you'll have decals left over for other projects, assume the paint you need is free and is left over from other projects. We're up to a total of 37.95 at retail. Don't know about you, but my time is worth $2 per car to have someone else do it! If anyone disagrees, I need about 150 cars built up. I'd be happy to pay you $2 each to do them for me!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] PRR Bowser B6???? Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:33:47 -0400 Group, Since there has been so much talk of new products, I was wondering the status of the Bowser B6? I checked the website and it still says Summer 03??? Maybe they are adding sound to compete with BLI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SamV _________________________________________________________________ Instant message with integrated webcam using MSN Messenger 6.0. Try it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Bowser B6???? Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:19:17 -0400 There's an ad with picture in Nov's RMC. Chris Chany - Group, Since there has been so much talk of new products, I was wondering the status of the Bowser B6? I checked the website and it still says Summer 03??? Maybe they are adding sound to compete with BLI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SamV ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:23:58 -0400 From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] X-29s MS Color In a message dated 10/2/2003 10:17:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: > Is there any basis for this dark chocolate brown on the RTR > MS > car? The car color was standardized on the darker color in 1953. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:29:55 -0400 From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] X-29s MS Color In a message dated 10/2/2003 10:40:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > Now, the cars are about nine months overdue. Is it possible that the > Chinese did such a horrible build-up job that the cars > required > repainting AFTER they were assembled? Jerry, Check the paint date on the cars. Beginning in 1953 the FCC was darkened. For referrence check the color drift cards from the PRRT&HS. The FCC card is much darker and more brown than the pre '53 orange-red color. The color change predates the change to SK paint schemes. It is theoreticaly possible to have both colors in the MS scheme. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:37:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] X-29s MS Color From: Jerry Britton On Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 01:29 PM, SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote: > Check the paint date on the cars. Beginning in 1953 the FCC was > darkened. For referrence check the color drift cards from the > PRRT&HS. The FCC card is much darker and more brown than the pre '53 > orange-red color. The color change predates the change to SK paint > schemes. It is theoreticaly possible to have both colors in the MS > scheme. Cars are dated April 1953. So don't weather them!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] X-29s MS Color (fwd) Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:49:11 +0000 Rich Orr wrote: Check the paint date on the cars. Beginning in 1953 the FCC was darkened. For referrence check the color drift cards from the PRRT&HS. The FCC card is much darker and more brown than the pre '53 orange-red color. The color change predates the change to SK paint schemes. It is theoreticaly possible to have both colors in the MS scheme. I still have a problem with this model - I can't find any photos of freshly painted Class X29 boxcars in MS2 later than 1951. The two post-1953 MS2 X29 shots (one dated 9/58, the other dated 11/54) in PRR Color Guides Vols 1 and 2 show heavily weathered cars. Though it's theoretically possible, I'm skeptical that any X29s were repainted in MS2 with the later FCC after 1953. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] X-29s MS Color Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:41:06 -0400 Did FCC really darken in '53? I went through some of this when looking for a paint color to paint the N5c at Whippany. Since we're looking to paint it in the 1954 SK scheme I was originally planning on using the drift card. Some folks at the museum balked at the drift card color and pointd to photos of newly painted shadow keystone cars that sure look like the lighter orange-red color. The feedback that I got was that FCC didn't darken until into the sixtees and even then didn't get as dark as the drift card. One lister who's opinion I value stated right out that the FCC drift card shouldn't be used as it is too dark. This kind of caught me off guard as I bought it assuming it was an accurate reproduction but looking at 50's era photos I'm inclined to agree... Any thoughts on this? Also, the color most recommended for painting out cabin car was the orange-red used by Red Caboose on their earlier runs! That's why it seems so odd that they changed it! Does anyone out there have an original FCC drift card? I only have a pool green card (Did the PRR have that many pools that they needed a color standard for them or was pool green used elsewhere?) Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of > SUVCWORR@aol.com > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 1:30 PM > To: jerry@pennsyrr.com; b.hom@att.net > Cc: asmiller@mitre.org; prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] X-29s MS Color > > > In a message dated 10/2/2003 10:40:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > > > Now, the cars are about nine months overdue. Is it possible that the > > Chinese did such a horrible build-up job that the cars > > required > > repainting AFTER they were assembled? > > Jerry, > > Check the paint date on the cars. Beginning in 1953 the FCC was > darkened. For referrence check the color drift cards from the > PRRT&HS. The FCC card is much darker and more brown than the pre > '53 orange-red color. The color change predates the change to SK > paint schemes. It is theoreticaly possible to have both colors > in the MS scheme. > > Rich Orr > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:09:40 -0400 From: Joe Witcofsky Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Bowser B6???? FYI: The B6 shows up in Bowser's ad in the Nov. RMC. The kit #528 is advertised at $ 189.95 (retail), and comes with lost wax super detail parts and can motor. The ad specifies estimated delivery of Sept. 2003. BTW the same ad features the N8 cabin car kits in a host of varities. Winter 2003 for availability. Nothing new here. JW ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 20:13:25 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] X-29s MS Color --part1_11a.2901f836.2cae1925_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/02/2003 2:41:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, robs@actel.com writes: > Did FCC really darken in '53? The date on the color drift card for freight car paint RED ref nos. 47-2383; 47-2386; 47-2387 and 47-3042 is actually October, 1952. It is definitely a darker redish brown. Regarding cabin cars, the color did not change at the same time. Cabin cars were delayed somewhat. Rich Orr. --part1_11a.2901f836.2cae1925_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 10/02/2003 2:41:31 PM Eastern Dayli= ght Time, robs@actel.com writes:


Did FCC really darken in '53? <= /BLOCKQUOTE>

The date on the color drift card for freight car paint RED ref nos. 47-2383;= 47-2386; 47-2387 and 47-3042 is actually October, 1952.  It is definit= ely a darker redish brown.  Regarding cabin cars, the color did not cha= nge at the same time.  Cabin cars were delayed somewhat. 

Rich Orr. --part1_11a.2901f836.2cae1925_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:33:21 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Key Imports N Scale Announcements From: Jerry Britton Key Imports has made two significant announcements for the N scale PRR modeler. Neither has an ETA yet and both are expected to hit the streets for about $799 each. First, the PRR K4 4-6-2 Pacific in ten versions: 1) Prewar Version, #8, w/ 110P75A Tender, Strap Pilot, Top Mounted Headlight, Brunswick Green 2) Prewar Version, #5491, w/ 110P75A Tender, Top Mounted Headlight, Brunswick Green 3) Prewar Version, #5409, 110P75A Tender, Top Mounted Headlight, Tuscan Red 4) Post 1947 Rebuilt Version, #1361, 130 P75 Tender, Cast Pilot, Modern Front End 5) Post 1947 Rebuilt Version, #3750, 110 P75A Tender, Cast Pilot, Modern Front End, As displayed at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania. 6) 1936 Raymond Lowey Design, #3768, 180P75 Tender w/ 6 Wheel Trucks, Brunswick Green, Gold Stripes 7) 1940 Streamline Design, #1120 8) 1940 Streamline Design, #2665 9) 1940 Streamline Design, #3678 10) 1940 Streamline Design, #5338 Second, the PRR I1 2-10-0 Decapod in four versions: 1) I-1S #4293 w/ 210F82A Tender w/ 6 Wheel Trucks, Radio Equipped 2) I-1S #4305 w/ 90F82 Tender w/ 4 Wheel Trucks, Radio Equipped 3) I-1SA #1126 w/ 210F82A Tender w/ 6 Wheel Trucks, Non Radio Equipped 4) I-1SA #3720 w/ 90F82 Tender w/ 4 Wheel Trucks If you are interested, see your preferred authorized Key Imports dealer soon and place a reservation. The past several releases (T-1 and J-1) were sold out well before delivery! DISCLAIMER: I am a dealer of Key Imports products. I offer the above as a Public Service Announcement and do not mean to solicit business by providing this information. Please accept my apology if you were offended by the form of the announcement. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] BLI T-1 Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 14:12:06 +0000 A couple of questions for those of you with current BLI products. The T-1 will only have one motor if I read the technical information on their web site correctly since it onloy talks about one motor. I assume that the N&W A is built with a similar drive SO: 1. Do I interpret correctly that it is similar to a Rivarossi drive with connecting shafts between the drive trains and driven by one motor? 2. How does the sound sychronize? Is there any kind of physical trigger like the wheel wiper on a PFM system? 3. Would it be possible in the A to add a second motor and make the drive trains run independently like the Bowser? 4. Does the space exist in an A to do this? Thanks for any input. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Cooper" Subject: [PRR] Chestnut Hill Branch Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:05:48 -0700 What ever happened with SEPTA's plan to abandon the Chestnut Hill branch? Joh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 19:51:16 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Key Imports HO Scale Announcements From: Jerry @ Pennsy Hey, gang, just got another mailer. Key Imports will be doing the I-1's in HO scale as well. No ETA and street price estimated to be around $1,299. Same road numbers and specs as N scale. On Friday, October 3, 2003, at 08:33 AM, Jerry Britton wrote: > Key Imports has made two significant announcements for the N scale PRR > modeler. Neither has an ETA yet and both are expected to hit the > streets for about $799 each. > > First, the PRR K4 4-6-2 Pacific in ten versions: > 1) Prewar Version, #8, w/ 110P75A Tender, Strap Pilot, Top Mounted > Headlight, Brunswick Green > 2) Prewar Version, #5491, w/ 110P75A Tender, Top Mounted Headlight, > Brunswick Green > 3) Prewar Version, #5409, 110P75A Tender, Top Mounted Headlight, > Tuscan Red > 4) Post 1947 Rebuilt Version, #1361, 130 P75 Tender, Cast Pilot, > Modern Front End > 5) Post 1947 Rebuilt Version, #3750, 110 P75A Tender, Cast Pilot, > Modern Front End, As displayed at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania. > 6) 1936 Raymond Lowey Design, #3768, 180P75 Tender w/ 6 Wheel Trucks, > Brunswick Green, Gold Stripes > 7) 1940 Streamline Design, #1120 > 8) 1940 Streamline Design, #2665 > 9) 1940 Streamline Design, #3678 > 10) 1940 Streamline Design, #5338 > > Second, the PRR I1 2-10-0 Decapod in four versions: > 1) I-1S #4293 w/ 210F82A Tender w/ 6 Wheel Trucks, Radio Equipped > 2) I-1S #4305 w/ 90F82 Tender w/ 4 Wheel Trucks, Radio Equipped > 3) I-1SA #1126 w/ 210F82A Tender w/ 6 Wheel Trucks, Non Radio Equipped > 4) I-1SA #3720 w/ 90F82 Tender w/ 4 Wheel Trucks > > If you are interested, see your preferred authorized Key Imports > dealer soon and place a reservation. The past several releases (T-1 > and J-1) were sold out well before delivery! > > DISCLAIMER: I am a dealer of Key Imports products. I offer the above > as a Public Service Announcement and do not mean to solicit business > by providing this information. Please accept my apology if you were > offended by the form of the announcement. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 22:25:30 -0400 From: Bill Subject: [PRR] PRR on PHL PBS 10/8/03 Channel 12, the local PBS station here in beautiful downtown Philadelphia, will be again be broadcasting their PRR program. Bill Morlitz Wednesday, October 8 at 8:00 p.m. PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD Beginning in 1846 and closing in 1970 as the biggest bankruptcy in US history, the Pennsylvania Railroad had an impact on the major events of the 20th century, including the Great Depression and World War II. Taking a look at the rise and fall of the Railroad, the WHYY production is an amazing story of social history as well, detailing the lives of the owners and top management and the people who actually laid the tracks, stoked the engines and threw the switches. (1 hour) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 11:09:10 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Re: Bowser B6 Status From: Jerry @ Pennsy Received the following from Lee English at Bowser regarding the overdue B6 steam loco.. > we have packed the first couple of loco kits. We are building them > now to > be sure all the parts and the insturctions are correct. I hope to be > shipping in 1 week if all is correct. > > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: [PRR] The Keystone for Autumn 2003 Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 00:06:09 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_046D_01C38AD4.7AC92BD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Excellent issue of the Keystone! Reprinting the article from Trains was = a fantastic idea, good info on tenders with the promise of more to come, = and The Way It Was is very interesting. A couple of notes: 1) East of the Davis track pans at 60 mph and the fireman has to climb = over the coal pile and the slope sheet to check the water level in the = tank! And at this early date not even the trainphone antenna for a = handhold! 2) Whenever any of the modeling mags, especially Model Railroader, does = an article on track, we are reminded "Track switches, often called = "turnouts" by modelers to distinguish them from electrical switches..." = (MR Oct 2003 pg. 92) Not so fast, Mr. Editor. If it is good enough for = the Pennsylvania Railroad as in Mr. Archdeacon's article, then it is = good enough for me. They aren't track switches after all; they really = are turnouts. So be it. A new axiom to join "No dashes in PRR freight car classes!": "A Turnout is a Turnout is a Turnout!" Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_046D_01C38AD4.7AC92BD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Excellent issue of the Keystone!  = Reprinting=20 the article from Trains was a fantastic idea, good info on tenders with = the=20 promise of more to come, and The Way It Was is very interesting.  A = couple=20 of notes:
 
1) East of the Davis track pans at 60 = mph and the=20 fireman has to climb over the coal pile and the slope sheet to check the = water=20 level in the tank! And at this early date not even the trainphone=20 antenna for a handhold!
 
2) Whenever any of the modeling mags, = especially=20 Model Railroader, does an article on track, we are reminded "Track=20 switches, often called "turnouts" by modelers to distinguish them from=20 electrical switches..." (MR Oct 2003 pg. 92) Not so fast, Mr.=20 Editor. If it is good enough for the Pennsylvania Railroad = as in Mr.=20 Archdeacon's article, then it is good enough for me. They aren't track = switches=20 after all;  they really are turnouts.  So be = it.
 
A new axiom to join "No dashes in PRR = freight car=20 classes!":
 
"A Turnout is a Turnout is a = Turnout!"
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_046D_01C38AD4.7AC92BD0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 09:50:34 -0400 From: Phil Balles Subject: [PRR] E33 to E44 conversion All Has anyone attempted to use the Bachmann E33 trucks and underframe and put it under an old Alco brass E44 body - or even scratchbuild a new body? I just picked up an E33 yesterday - the truck spacing is dead on to the Alco model, but the body is shorter. Other than prr.railfan.net, has anyone seen detailed plans of an E44? Thanks for the help in advance Phil Balles ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:39:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] E33 to E44 conversion I believe that there were some plans of the E-44 in a Railroad Model Craftsman _many_ years ago. They were pretty rough, as I recall. Keep this discussion going, we need E-44's! E-33's may be nice but they just don't replace E-44's! John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:14:46 EDT Subject: [PRR] Wig Wag Grade crossing Signals --part1_115.298bd2ef.2cb19d76_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Yuze Gize, I just picked up the American Limited Wig Wag Grade Crossing Signal and I always associated them with Western Railroads. Did Pennsy use these on the system? Perhaps Al B. knows? Greg Martin --part1_115.298bd2ef.2cb19d76_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Yuze Gize,

I just picked up the American Limited Wig Wag Grade Crossing Signal and I al= ways associated them with Western Railroads. Did Pennsy use these on the sys= tem? Perhaps Al B. knows?

Greg Martin
 --part1_115.298bd2ef.2cb19d76_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roy Breon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Wig Wag Grade crossing Signals Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:30:14 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0075_01C38B44.CF62C6E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not just Western RR. I don't know about the PRR but the Boston & Maine = used them. Roy Breon ----- Original Message -----=20 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com=20 To: prr-modeling@yahoogroups.com ; prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 12:14 PM Subject: [PRR] Wig Wag Grade crossing Signals Hey Yuze Gize, I just picked up the American Limited Wig Wag Grade Crossing Signal = and I always associated them with Western Railroads. Did Pennsy use = these on the system? Perhaps Al B. knows? Greg Martin ------=_NextPart_000_0075_01C38B44.CF62C6E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Not just Western RR.  I don't know = about the=20 PRR but the Boston & Maine used them.
 
Roy Breon
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 TGREGMRTN@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 = 12:14=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] Wig Wag Grade = crossing=20 Signals

Hey Yuze = Gize,

I=20 just picked up the American Limited Wig Wag Grade Crossing Signal and = I always=20 associated them with Western Railroads. Did Pennsy use these on the = system?=20 Perhaps Al B. knows?

Greg=20 Martin
------=_NextPart_000_0075_01C38B44.CF62C6E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Wig Wag Grade crossing Signals Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:50:16 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01C38B58.5EE11CA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List, There was a crossing west of Decatur, IN at Union, IN, on the Erie = Western ex. Erie with a "wig-wag" as late as 1979. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Roy Breon=20 To: PRR-Talk=20 Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 1:30 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Wig Wag Grade crossing Signals Not just Western RR. I don't know about the PRR but the Boston & = Maine used them. Roy Breon ----- Original Message -----=20 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com=20 To: prr-modeling@yahoogroups.com ; prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 12:14 PM Subject: [PRR] Wig Wag Grade crossing Signals Hey Yuze Gize, I just picked up the American Limited Wig Wag Grade Crossing Signal = and I always associated them with Western Railroads. Did Pennsy use = these on the system? Perhaps Al B. knows? Greg Martin ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01C38B58.5EE11CA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
List,
 
There was a crossing west of Decatur, IN at Union, = IN, on the=20 Erie Western ex. Erie with a "wig-wag" as late as 1979.
 
Gregg Mahlkov
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Roy Breon=20
Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 = 1:30=20 PM
Subject: Re: [PRR] Wig Wag = Grade crossing=20 Signals

Not just Western RR.  I don't = know about the=20 PRR but the Boston & Maine used them.
 
Roy Breon
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 TGREGMRTN@aol.com
To: prr-modeling@yahoogroups.com= =20 ; prr-talk@dsop.com
Sent: Sunday, October 05, = 2003 12:14=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] Wig Wag Grade = crossing=20 Signals

Hey Yuze = Gize,

I=20 just picked up the American Limited Wig Wag Grade Crossing Signal = and I=20 always associated them with Western Railroads. Did Pennsy use these = on the=20 system? Perhaps Al B. knows?

Greg=20 Martin
------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01C38B58.5EE11CA0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Wig Wag Grade crossing Signals Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:58:29 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C38B59.84CBBA00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greg, et al., I don't recall ever seeing a wig wag grade crossing signal used on the PRR, nor of any standard drawings of it. But never, say never. Al ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C38B59.84CBBA00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Greg, et=20 al.,
 
I don't recall ever seeing a wig = wag=20 grade crossing signal used = on the=20 PRR, nor of any standard drawings of it. But never, say = never.
 
Al
------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C38B59.84CBBA00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 22:23:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Bennetts E8's Bennett, List, Anyone spot Bennetts E8's during tonights nationally televised Sunday Night Football? Returning from a commercial, the camera picked up Bennetts E Units crossing the Ft Wayne Bridge, (probably during the turnarond). It wa a night shot so all you could see was an outline but you sure could make out the lines of these locos. Not sure if it was live at that particular moment or on tape. Nice timing Bennett!.........Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Bennetts E8's Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 23:08:03 -0400 Gary, List, As far as I know they turn the p-burgh trains west of the station at CP-Home MP 347.8 unless they were under a diferent set of rules. John Gary wrote: Bennett, List, Anyone spot Bennetts E8's during tonights nationally televised Sunday Night Football? Returning from a commercial, the camera picked up Bennetts E Units crossing the Ft Wayne Bridge, (probably during the turnarond). It wa a night shot so all you could see was an outline but you sure could make out the lines of these locos. Not sure if it was live at that particular moment or on tape. Nice timing Bennett!.........Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 00:13:28 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Wig Wag Grade crossing Signals --part1_1c9.ff4706b.2cb245e8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Al Buchan replies... > Greg, et al., > > I don't recall ever seeing a wig wag grade crossing signal used on the PRR, > nor of any standard drawings of it. But never, say never. > > Al Well, I figured that might be the case as I can never remember seeing them in films or photos, but I will keep looking. I was hoping that it could be used, as I had mention I had picked up the American Limited Kit and it is just fabulous for the meager $7.00 I paid for it (no Sales Tax here in Oregon). It would have made an absolutely beautiful diorama and short article especially if we could have coupled it to some Pennsy drawings. Nevertheless, the kit is fabulous, go out and buy one for kicks and stick it right out front so everyone can see it and say, "Pennsy didn't have those..." 3^) Greg Martin --part1_1c9.ff4706b.2cb245e8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Al Buchan replies...

Greg, et al.,

I don't recall ever seeing a wig wag grade crossing signal used on the PRR,=20= nor of any standard drawings of it. But never, say never.

Al


Well, I figured that might be the case as I can never remember seeing them i= n films or photos, but I will keep looking.  I was hoping that it could= be used, as I had mention I had picked up the American Limited Kit and it i= s just fabulous for the meager $7.00 I paid for it (no Sales Tax here in Ore= gon). It would have made an absolutely beautiful diorama and short article e= specially if we could have coupled it to some Pennsy drawings. Nevertheless,= the kit is fabulous, go out and buy one for kicks and stick it right out fr= ont so everyone can see it and say, "Pennsy didn't have those..."  = ; 3^) 

Greg Martin --part1_1c9.ff4706b.2cb245e8_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 00:48:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] Dearth of E-44 plans Hello list, I just checked the Model Train Magazine index http://index.mrmag.com/ and there are articles about, but no plans of the E-44 in the index. Are dashes correct for PRR electric and steam classes (Ben Hom, please chime in on this...grin!)? Doug __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BillyDee53@aol.com Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:10:10 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Dearth of E-44 plans --part1_29.491bf9cd.2cb29982_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit RMC did an article on kitbashing an E44 from AHM U25 bodies. It ran back in the 1960's but I cant be more specific than that. Bill --part1_29.491bf9cd.2cb29982_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RMC did an article on kitbashing an E44 from AHM U25 b= odies.  It ran back in the 1960's but I cant be more specific than that= .  Bill --part1_29.491bf9cd.2cb29982_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:40:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Bennetts E8's From: Jerry @ Pennsy On Sunday, October 5, 2003, at 10:23 PM, Gary Mittner wrote: > Anyone spot Bennetts E8's during tonights nationally televised > Sunday Night Football? Returning from a commercial, the camera picked > up > Bennetts E Units crossing the Ft Wayne Bridge, Guess there's only one way to top that, Bennett.... You leaning out the window of the cab saying "Are you ready for some football?" on Monday night!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 07:27:33 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Dearth of E-44 plans From: Jamie Bothwell Hi All, There is an article in the December 1961 RMC by William Schopp about etching your own E-44 in brass. I remember the article about bashing the U25 into an E-44, but I can't affix a date to it. Jamie ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Dearth of E-44 plans Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:00:00 -0400 Re: Are dashes correct for PRR electric and steam classes No. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Reed Kosmal" Subject: Re: [PRR] Bennetts E8's Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:07:46 -0400 I did see them and didn't realize what they were. In fact I made a comment to myself as to what they were. Reed Kosmal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" To: Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 10:23 PM Subject: [PRR] Bennetts E8's > Bennett, List, > > Anyone spot Bennetts E8's during tonights nationally televised > Sunday Night Football? Returning from a commercial, the camera picked up > Bennetts E Units crossing the Ft Wayne Bridge, (probably during the > turnarond). It wa a night shot so all you could see was an outline but > you sure could make out the lines of these locos. Not sure if it was > live at that particular moment or on tape. Nice timing > Bennett!.........Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work! > > PRR K4s Loco Pics: > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ > > PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > > and...... > > PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bennett Levin" Subject: Re: [PRR] Bennetts E8's Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:26:59 -0400 In an attempt to enhance the revenue for the Altoona Museum, the NS went out of their way to route the train to Pittsburgh via the Port Perry, the southside of Pittsburgh, the OC bridge, Island Ave, then over the Ft Wayne Bridge into the station. The folks from Altoona indicated that they believe that they had a most successful weekend. Hats off to NS for giving them the opportunity to do something "special". Bennett ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" To: Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 10:23 PM Subject: [PRR] Bennetts E8's > Bennett, List, > > Anyone spot Bennetts E8's during tonights nationally televised > Sunday Night Football? Returning from a commercial, the camera picked up > Bennetts E Units crossing the Ft Wayne Bridge, (probably during the > turnarond). It wa a night shot so all you could see was an outline but > you sure could make out the lines of these locos. Not sure if it was > live at that particular moment or on tape. Nice timing > Bennett!.........Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work! > > PRR K4s Loco Pics: > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ > > PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > > and...... > > PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Purdue University Railroad Club Modular Layout Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 14:27:10 +0000 On a slightly related topic, Purdue University's Railroad Club unveiled its modular DCC-controlled layout this past weekend. The modular layout, consists of 16 modules and formed an oval layout with approximate dimensions of 25' by 14'. As a former club member, I assisted in laying down the mainline roadbed and track early this summer. All modules have basic scenery but there are plans to do more. The layout was placed on the first floor of the student union. Since it was Homecoming weekend, there were a ton of people there. The club recieved more exposure on Saturday than probably in the last several years combined. But the news to report to all of you is the engines the the club was using were the BLI GG-1 on a passenger train and 2 double-headed Bachmann K-4's on the other train. If one did not know, one would have assumed that they at Penn State or University of Pittsburgh! I was thinking of you guys when I saw the trains in action. BTW, Purdue trounced Illinois 43-10. Ted Andrews Purdue Alum and Club member from 1983-1986 and then again from 1991-1993. _________________________________________________________________ Help protect your PC. Get a FREE computer virus scan online from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:44:53 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Bennetts E8's From: Jerry Britton On Monday, October 6, 2003, at 10:26 AM, Bennett Levin wrote: > In an attempt to enhance the revenue for the Altoona Museum, the NS > went out > of their way to route the train to Pittsburgh via the Port Perry, the > southside of Pittsburgh, the OC bridge, Island Ave, then over the Ft > Wayne > Bridge into the station. The folks from Altoona indicated that they > believe > that they had a most successful weekend. > > Hats off to NS for giving them the opportunity to do something > "special". Excellent on both counts!!! Five days till the Renovo trip...and the long range forecast looks real nice! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: [PRR] The Keystone Modeler #3 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:07:37 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C38C34.B9B8CD30 Content-Type: text/plain Hi all; Once again, we are asking for your input on The Keystone Modeler, this time on issue #3. The reason I ask is that we always appreciate your feedback. And we have made a number of big changes this time around (as we did with #2, based on your input). Although what feedback we've gotten has been greatly appreciated and quite positive, we can always use your expert opinions, as to whether or not we are giving you what you want, whether it interests you, or whether or not, for some of you, your silence is a good thing. We could particularly use your continued advice on subject matter. So, did you like the balance of proto versus model? Diagram versus text versus photo? The types of articles? Was the GR article too much? Too much on building? Are the techniques too "over the top"? Is the image quality good? Are you having trouble with getting it up in a timely manner, with load times, with viewing? Is it too long? And, do you have any more suggestions on future subjects? We are going to hit some of those you suggested pretty soon. Keeping in mind that some of these do require a lot of preparation. We are thinking about offering up an article on weathering. Based on several requests. Also, upgrading a plastic kit. And perhaps running one of the gondolas out of sequence for a scratchbuilding article. Are you up for that? We eagerly await your feedback. And, thanks again for reading. Elden Gatwood PRRT&HS Modeling Committee ------_=_NextPart_001_01C38C34.B9B8CD30 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Keystone Modeler #3

Hi all;

Once again, we are asking for your input on The = Keystone Modeler, this time on issue #3.  The reason I ask is that = we always appreciate your feedback. And we have made a number of big = changes this time around (as we did with #2, based on your input). = Although what feedback we've gotten has been greatly appreciated and = quite positive, we can always use your expert opinions, as to whether = or not we are giving you what you want, whether it interests you, or = whether or not, for some of you, your silence is a good thing.  We = could particularly use your continued advice on subject = matter.

So, did you like the balance of proto versus = model?  Diagram versus text versus photo?  The types of = articles?  Was the GR article too much?  Too much on = building?  Are the techniques too "over the top"?  = Is the image quality good?  Are you having trouble with getting it = up in a timely manner, with load times, with viewing?  Is it too = long?

And, do you have any more suggestions on future = subjects?  We are going to hit some of those you suggested pretty = soon.  Keeping in mind that some of these do require a lot of = preparation.

We are thinking about offering up an article on = weathering.  Based on several requests.  Also, upgrading a = plastic kit.  And perhaps running one of the gondolas out of = sequence for a scratchbuilding article.  Are you up for = that?

We eagerly await your feedback.  And, thanks = again for reading.

Elden Gatwood
PRRT&HS Modeling Committee


------_=_NextPart_001_01C38C34.B9B8CD30-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 16:06:55 -0400 From: Rod Schaffter Subject: [PRR] Re: The Keystone for Autumn 2003 Stephen speaketh thus: > 2) Whenever any of the modeling mags, especially Model Railroader, does = > an article on track, we are reminded "Track switches, often called = > "turnouts" by modelers to distinguish them from electrical switches..." = > (MR Oct 2003 pg. 92) Not so fast, Mr. Editor. If it is good enough for = > the Pennsylvania Railroad as in Mr. Archdeacon's article, then it is = > good enough for me. They aren't track switches after all; they really = > are turnouts. So be it. I wholeheartedly agree, and so does Atlantic Track and Turnout: http://www.atlantictrack.com/ Cheers, Rod Schaffter -- The Ten Commandments display was removed recently from the Alabama Supreme Court building. There was a good reason for the move: You can't post "Thou Shalt Not Steal" in a building full of Lawyers and Politicians without creating a hostile work environment. --"E" ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: The Keystone for Autumn 2003 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:35:02 -0400 Technically, the "switch" is the part of the "turnout" that moves, a.k.a. the "point rails". The engineerring department tends to call the whole thing, "turnouts" while the train crews call them "switches". Gregg Mahlkov Per Rod Schaffter: Stephen speaketh thus: 2) Whenever any of the modeling mags, especially Model Railroader, does = an article on track, we are reminded "Track switches, often called = "turnouts" by modelers to distinguish them from electrical switches..." = (MR Oct 2003 pg. 92) Not so fast, Mr. Editor. If it is good enough for = the Pennsylvania Railroad as in Mr. Archdeacon's article, then it is = good enough for me. They aren't track switches after all; they really = are turnouts. So be it. I wholeheartedly agree, and so does Atlantic Track and Turnout: http://www.atlantictrack.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 18:33:38 -0400 From: Phil Balles Subject: Re: [PRR] Dearth of E-44 plans Jamie / et al I have a copy of the article about bashing the E44 from a U25C - the guy who did it left the fuel tank on (modelling in those days was a bit more laid back....). As for the etching article, I've never heard about that one - does anyone have a copy? As for plans, does anyone have any idea if the RR Museum of PA has any E44 plans - they have the 4465 and somebody gave the paint diagrams to Juniata to paint it. For that matter, who would I talk to at the museum about it? Thanks again Phil Jamie Bothwell wrote: > Hi All, > There is an article in the December 1961 RMC by William Schopp > about etching your own E-44 in brass. I remember the article about > bashing the U25 into an E-44, but I can't affix a date to it. > Jamie > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:57:26 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Maybe a switch is still a switch In a message dated 10/6/03 1:14:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > 2) Whenever any of the modeling mags, especially Model Railroader, does = > an article on track, we are reminded "Track switches, often called = > "turnouts" by modelers to distinguish them from electrical switches..." = > (MR Oct 2003 pg. 92) Not so fast, Mr. Editor. If it is good enough for = > the Pennsylvania Railroad as in Mr. Archdeacon's article, then it is = > good enough for me. They aren't track switches after all; they really = > are turnouts. So be it. > > A new axiom to join "No dashes in PRR freight car classes!": > > "A Turnout is a Turnout is a Turnout!" > > Steve Hoxie > Sorry Steve, No hope for peace in the turnout wars here... 1. The Walthers catalog and MR's editorial style standards have historically called them turnouts, probably because that's what they're called in the NMRA Glossary. The October MR article by Jim Hediger uses turnout almost throughout. However, the text on page 92 is careful to start with the phrase "Track switch" and then introduce "turnout" as the term the article will use. Notice nothing at all is said there about prototype terminology. Even the Walthers catalog has to cross-reference turnouts as "switches, track" so you can find the page number. However, in the real world, all model railroaders I know call them switches. 2. I believe Mr. Archdeacon's Keystone article uses "turnout" 5 times. It also uses "switch" twice and "switch points" 4 more times. And a caption uses "switch" another time. Sounds to me like "switch" and "turnout" are close equivalents here. 3. In a friend's L&N collection, I find that the corresponding blueprints for trackwork are labelled "turnouts and crossovers"; these drawings were issued various dates between 1905 and 1911. 4. The 1896 Lines West Signal Department manual makes numerous references to switches, and none I can find to turnouts. Some sample phrases in the 1896 book: "One lever may be used to throw one or more switches", "one or more locks". But not "a switch and a lock..." "Facing point locks must be used on all switches" "Front rods must project beyond point of switch" "Bolt locks must have an independent connection to the switch points" BTW, I was interested to see that the responsible official signing the front of this manual was L.F. Loree, Lines West General Manager, of later fame on the B&O and the Delaware & Hudson. I suppose this manual will be held up as one more crime against nature by the renegades west of Pittsburgh , but it does leave us with credible "Pennsy" sources that used both definitions. 3. Have you ever heard of a "turnoutman"? Me neither. But there were switchmen. 4. Pennsy's premier supplier of signals and interlocking equipment was not named "Union Turnout and Signal". I'm ready to believe that the "turnout" designation has come to us from civil engineering manuals. I'm fairly sure the NMRA attempted to adopt that usage in an effort to distinguish track switches from electrical switches in model railroading. However, it is clearly not a term in everyday use -- at least within my hearing. If there were a Webster's dictionary for model railroading/railfanning, I suspect "turnout" would be defined as "an archaic civil engineering term." If it's any consolation, I do agree that there are no dashes in PRR classes. At least, that's the practice in whatever PRR documents I've seen. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:57:26 EDT Subject: [PRR] Maybe a switch is still a switch --part1_9c.3624e280.2cb37786_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/6/03 1:14:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > 2) Whenever any of the modeling mags, especially Model Railroader, does = > an article on track, we are reminded "Track switches, often called = > "turnouts" by modelers to distinguish them from electrical switches..." = > (MR Oct 2003 pg. 92) Not so fast, Mr. Editor. If it is good enough for = > the Pennsylvania Railroad as in Mr. Archdeacon's article, then it is = > good enough for me. They aren't track switches after all; they really = > are turnouts. So be it. > > A new axiom to join "No dashes in PRR freight car classes!": > > "A Turnout is a Turnout is a Turnout!" > > Steve Hoxie > Sorry Steve, No hope for peace in the turnout wars here... 1. The Walthers catalog and MR's editorial style standards have historically called them turnouts, probably because that's what they're called in the NMRA Glossary. The October MR article by Jim Hediger uses turnout almost throughout. However, the text on page 92 is careful to start with the phrase "Track switch" and then introduce "turnout" as the term the article will use. Notice nothing at all is said there about prototype terminology. Even the Walthers catalog has to cross-reference turnouts as "switches, track" so you can find the page number. However, in the real world, all model railroaders I know call them switches. 2. I believe Mr. Archdeacon's Keystone article uses "turnout" 5 times. It also uses "switch" twice and "switch points" 4 more times. And a caption uses "switch" another time. Sounds to me like "switch" and "turnout" are close equivalents here. 3. In a friend's L&N collection, I find that the corresponding blueprints for trackwork are labelled "turnouts and crossovers"; these drawings were issued various dates between 1905 and 1911. 4. The 1896 Lines West Signal Department manual makes numerous references to switches, and none I can find to turnouts. Some sample phrases in the 1896 book: "One lever may be used to throw one or more switches", "one or more locks". But not "a switch and a lock..." "Facing point locks must be used on all switches" "Front rods must project beyond point of switch" "Bolt locks must have an independent connection to the switch points" BTW, I was interested to see that the responsible official signing the front of this manual was L.F. Loree, Lines West General Manager, of later fame on the B&O and the Delaware & Hudson. I suppose this manual will be held up as one more crime against nature by the renegades west of Pittsburgh , but it does leave us with credible "Pennsy" sources that used both definitions. 3. Have you ever heard of a "turnoutman"? Me neither. But there were switchmen. 4. Pennsy's premier supplier of signals and interlocking equipment was not named "Union Turnout and Signal". I'm ready to believe that the "turnout" designation has come to us from civil engineering manuals. I'm fairly sure the NMRA attempted to adopt that usage in an effort to distinguish track switches from electrical switches in model railroading. However, it is clearly not a term in everyday use -- at least within my hearing. If there were a Webster's dictionary for model railroading/railfanning, I suspect "turnout" would be defined as "an archaic civil engineering term." If it's any consolation, I do agree that there are no dashes in PRR classes. At least, that's the practice in whatever PRR documents I've seen. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_9c.3624e280.2cb37786_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 10/6/03 1= :14:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:


2) Whenever any of the modeling= mags, especially Model Railroader, does =3D
an article on track, we are reminded "Track switches, often called =3D
"turnouts" by modelers to distinguish them from electrical switches..." =3D<= BR> (MR Oct 2003 pg. 92) Not so fast, Mr. Editor. If it is good enough for =3D the Pennsylvania Railroad as in Mr. Archdeacon's article, then it is =3D
good enough for me. They aren't track switches after all;  they really=20= =3D
are turnouts.  So be it.

A new axiom to join "No dashes in PRR freight car classes!":

"A Turnout is a Turnout is a Turnout!"

Steve Hoxie


Sorry Steve,

No hope for peace in the turnout wars here...

1.  The Walthers catalog and MR's editorial style standards have histor= ically called them turnouts, probably because that's what they're called in=20= the NMRA Glossary.  The October MR article by Jim Hediger uses turnout=20= almost throughout.  However, the text on page 92 is careful to start wi= th the phrase "Track switch" and then introduce "turnout" as the term the ar= ticle will use.  Notice nothing at all is said there about prototype te= rminology.  Even the Walthers catalog has to cross-reference turnouts a= s "switches, track" so you can find the page number.  However, in the r= eal world, all model railroaders I know call them switches.

2.  I believe Mr. Archdeacon's Keystone article uses "turnout" 5 times.=   It also uses "switch" twice and "switch points" 4 more times.  A= nd a caption uses "switch" another time.  Sounds to me like "switch" an= d "turnout" are close equivalents here.

3.  In a friend's L&N collection, I find that the corresponding blu= eprints for trackwork are labelled "turnouts and crossovers"; these drawings= were issued various dates between 1905 and 1911.

4.  The 1896 Lines West Signal Department manual makes numerous referen= ces to switches, and none I can find to turnouts.  Some sample phrases=20= in the 1896 book:
"One lever may be used to throw one or more switches", "one or more locks".<= BR> But not "a switch and a lock..."
"Facing point locks must be used on all switches"
"Front rods must project beyond point of switch"
"Bolt locks must have an independent connection to the switch points"

BTW, I was interested to see that the responsible official signing the front= of this manual was L.F. Loree, Lines West General Manager, of later fame on= the B&O and the Delaware & Hudson.

I suppose this manual will be held up as one more crime against nature by th= e renegades west of Pittsburgh <G>, but it does leave us with credible= "Pennsy" sources that used both definitions.

3.  Have you ever heard of a "turnoutman"?  Me neither.  But=20= there were switchmen.

4.  Pennsy's premier supplier of signals and interlocking equipment was= not named "Union Turnout and Signal".

I'm ready to believe that the "turnout" designation has come to us from civi= l engineering manuals.  I'm fairly sure the NMRA attempted to adopt tha= t usage in an effort to distinguish track switches from electrical switches=20= in model railroading.  However, it is clearly not a term in everyday us= e -- at least within my hearing.  If there were a Webster's dictionary=20= for model railroading/railfanning, I suspect "turnout" would be defined as "= an archaic civil engineering term."

If it's any consolation, I do agree that there are no dashes in PRR classes.=   At least, that's the practice in whatever PRR documents I've seen.
Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_9c.3624e280.2cb37786_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:09:15 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Maybe a switch is still a switch From: Jerry @ Pennsy I scanned thousands of pages of Pennsy docs in creating my 1954 CD-ROM. I have no recollection of references to "turnouts". References to "switches" are in every Employee Timetable. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:05:49 -0400 Subject: RE: [PRR-FAX] Maybe a switch is still a switch The PRR CE78J, "Specifications for Construction and Maintenance of Track" refers to them as Turnouts. As I said before turnouts have two major components, a switch and a frog w/ guard rails. T&E crews referred to them as switches (as did MW guys) as that was the only part of the turnout they could operate. And they used switch keys because the frogs weren't locked and didn't have keys. And yes one man easily threw a switch. However, a turnout could also be thrown but it took several MW men with lining bars. Al ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR