From: "Charlie" Subject: [PRR] Brass Items for SALE Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 08:48:28 -0400 People, Before listing on E-bay I would like to give everyone on the list first chance. I have the following brass engines for sale: Oriental Limited BP-20 A and B units Tuscan Red 5 gold stripes production run. Overland Models SD-9 Phase II U/P Railworks I-1s 2-10-0 w/long haul tender F/P #4248 Railworks L-1 2-8-2 F/P #597 Key I-1s 2-10-0 w/short tender F/P #4305 and lightly weathered. All pieces are new in the box except Key I-1s #4305 which was test run only. Please contact me off line at cwhary@paonline.com if interested. Charles ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 10:22:27 -0400 Subject: [PRR] FOR SALE: Various From: Jerry Britton 1st of the month ad... "Merchandise Service" has recently added a bunch of stuff to its Clearance Center. Go to http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com and click on the Clearance Center link. Among lines added: Bowser, Digitrax, Soundtraxx. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrew S. Miller" Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 11:55:26 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] BLI GG-1 Second thoughts I got to run my GG1 last night at the North Shore Club. They are transitioning to DCC so I got a chance to hear all the sounds. WOW! Those coupler sounds could make me abandon the mainline and just spend my model RRing time switching cars in Sunnyside! I got the G hooked to my 15 car Broadway and ran it around the layout. The good news is the brake sound is great. The bad news is it could not take the hill in our mountain division. I know, Gs never got to the mountains. But they did pull trains out of the Hudson River tunnels. I had to remove my few brass cars and reduce the train to 13 cars to make it over the entire layout. AFAIK our grades do not exceed 2%. It was disappointing for a loco that weighs as much as this one does. My Rivarossi Gs can haul this train! I would love to see if more weight can be added but I have yet to figure out how to open the shell! There are four screws, two under each nose, which appear to attach the floor to the body. Removing them was insufficient. Something is still holding the shell on.. The shell can not be spread like a Rivarossi G or an Athearn loco, because the shell is not plastic. So how do I take this loco apart. I would like to paint the wires visible in the cab when the light are on. The brightly color coded wires are ugly through the cab windows. On a more positive note, I solved the ugly-ass coupler problem. Scale Accumates with the scale draft gear box fits rather nicely after carving the two bosses under (over) the coupler pocket off. I suspect the new Kadees with scale D/G boxes would do also. -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge & refill kit orders to US & Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark & more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 11:55:26 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] BLI GG-1 Second thoughts I got to run my GG1 last night at the North Shore Club. They are transitioning to DCC so I got a chance to hear all the sounds. WOW! Those coupler sounds could make me abandon the mainline and just spend my model RRing time switching cars in Sunnyside! I got the G hooked to my 15 car Broadway and ran it around the layout. The good news is the brake sound is great. The bad news is it could not take the hill in our mountain division. I know, Gs never got to the mountains. But they did pull trains out of the Hudson River tunnels. I had to remove my few brass cars and reduce the train to 13 cars to make it over the entire layout. AFAIK our grades do not exceed 2%. It was disappointing for a loco that weighs as much as this one does. My Rivarossi Gs can haul this train! I would love to see if more weight can be added but I have yet to figure out how to open the shell! There are four screws, two under each nose, which appear to attach the floor to the body. Removing them was insufficient. Something is still holding the shell on.. The shell can not be spread like a Rivarossi G or an Athearn loco, because the shell is not plastic. So how do I take this loco apart. I would like to paint the wires visible in the cab when the light are on. The brightly color coded wires are ugly through the cab windows. On a more positive note, I solved the ugly-ass coupler problem. Scale Accumates with the scale draft gear box fits rather nicely after carving the two bosses under (over) the coupler pocket off. I suspect the new Kadees with scale D/G boxes would do also. -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "PennsyRRfan" Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 16:27:23 GMT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Keystone Online vs. Keystone on CDs From: PennsyRRfan Al - I would be much more interested in the hi-res CD option than in the online subscription at the current quality. It just wouldn't be worth an annual fee to see and print at such poor resolution. Paul R. Greenwald PRRT&HS 1802 Phila Chapter 2009 ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - NetZero HiSpeed! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month -visit www.netzero.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 12:40:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Keystone Online vs. Keystone on CDs From: Jerry Britton On Friday, August 1, 2003, at 12:27 PM, PennsyRRfan wrote: > I would be much more interested in the hi-res CD option than in the > online subscription at the current quality. It just wouldn't be worth > an annual fee to see and print at such poor resolution. I previously expressed the same opinion privately. A drawback to the CD's however, is that you would not have searchability over the entire life of the Keystone, just the one's on the current CD. And there would be no way to add new issues to an existing search index. The only workaround would be for the Society to include an updated index on each new CD release. OR, have the master index online. It would return volume/issue references. The results listing would be used as a sales tool to sell CD's, each containing a volume or two, or to reference the CD's that the viewer has already purchased. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Removing BLI GG1 shell Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 16:47:20 +0000 looking at the preproduction pictures in their web site including the one of the unpainted shell and frame I think the four slots are to allow insertion of a screwdriver to pry the shell outward and unlock it from the frame. It could also be such a tight press fit that using a flat bladed screw driver in the slot could free the shell by prying it free. That could be the purpose of the indentation in the side of the frame. These are just guesses however. -- E mail me about the Chicago terminal Chapter of the PRRT&HS if you have an interest in learning more about us ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "PennsyRRfan" Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 17:15:39 GMT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Keystone Online vs. Keystone on CDs From: PennsyRRfan On Friday, August 1, 2003, at 12:40 PM Jerry Britton wrote: >OR, have the master index online. It would return volume/issue >references. The results listing would be used as a sales tool to sell >CD's, each containing a volume or two, or to reference the CD's that >the viewer has already purchased. Jerry - I think that this is the best way to go. Even if you own all of the CD's, using the online index would tell you which one(s) have the information you are looking for. If you don't have a particular CD, you could then order it online. Paul R. Greenwald PRRT&HS 1802 Phila Chapter 2009 ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - NetZero HiSpeed! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month -visit www.netzero.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRRT&HS Keystone Online vs. Keystone on CDs Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 13:28:26 -0400 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C35852.50F01620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" My feelings also. Chris -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 12:40 PM To: PennsyRRfan Cc: abbuchan1@comcast.net; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Keystone Online vs. Keystone on CDs On Friday, August 1, 2003, at 12:27 PM, PennsyRRfan wrote: > I would be much more interested in the hi-res CD option than in the > online subscription at the current quality. It just wouldn't be worth > an annual fee to see and print at such poor resolution. I previously expressed the same opinion privately. A drawback to the CD's however, is that you would not have searchability over the entire life of the Keystone, just the one's on the current CD. And there would be no way to add new issues to an existing search index. The only workaround would be for the Society to include an updated index on each new CD release. OR, have the master index online. It would return volume/issue references. The results listing would be used as a sales tool to sell CD's, each containing a volume or two, or to reference the CD's that the viewer has already purchased. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C35852.50F01620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [PRR] PRRT&HS Keystone Online vs. Keystone on = CDs

My feelings also.

Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com]=
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 12:40 PM
To: PennsyRRfan
Cc: abbuchan1@comcast.net; PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Keystone Online vs. = Keystone on CDs


On Friday, August 1, 2003, at 12:27  PM, = PennsyRRfan wrote:

> I would be much more interested in the hi-res CD = option than in the
> online subscription at the current = quality.  It just wouldn't be worth
> an annual fee to see and print at such poor = resolution.

I previously expressed the same opinion = privately.

A drawback to the CD's however, is that you would not = have
searchability over the entire life of the Keystone, = just the one's on
the current CD. And there would be no way to add new = issues to an
existing search index. The only workaround wouldâŕăô= for the Society to
include an updated index on each new CD = release.

OR, have the master index online. It would return = volume/issue
references. The results listing would be used as a = sales tool to sell
CD's, each containing a volume or two, or to = reference the CD's that
the viewer has already purchased.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF   Member, = PRRT&HS   jerry@pennsyrr.com
Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N = Scale.
"Keystone Crossings" - Home of the = "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
     http://kc.pennsyrr.com
"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad = products...
     http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com


---------------------------------------------------------------= --------
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C35852.50F01620-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: [PRR] TKM, The Keystone Modeler Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 13:37:52 -0400 Kudos to the staff of the TKM!!!!!!!!! Great ideas, photos and articles. I am excited about what is coming up. Lew "It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it." -- Al Gore, Vice President "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?" -- Lee Iacocca "If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure." -- Bill Clinton, President Synergistic Solutions: Alternative, Sustainable Waste Management and Energy Systems. Advocating water for life through the integration of sustainable agriculture, sustainable toilets, sustainable gray water systems and sustainable green construction. Lewis J. Matt III, Ph.D., C.S.E.O., B.O.C.A.I. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "James L. McDaniel" Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 14:05:23 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Keystone Online vs. Keystone on CDs As the proud user of a 56K modem that will only run at 28K because of old phone lines, I would much prefer Keystone CDs. Download time for online use is a big consideration and CDs are portable, cheap and fast. Jim McDaniel, slowly uploading in Delmarva ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 14:05:23 -0400 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Keystone Online vs. Keystone on CDs As the proud user of a 56K modem that will only run at 28K because of old phone lines, I would much prefer Keystone CDs. Download time for online use is a big consideration and CDs are portable, cheap and fast. Jim McDaniel, slowly uploading in Delmarva ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 13:26:41 -0500 From: gpierson@trnty.edu Subject: [PRR] Address Hello, everyone, I need to get an e-mail address for Pete Forbes. If you have it, please pass it along to me off-list. TIA, George Pierson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Keystone Online vs. Keystone on CDs Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 14:48:12 -0400 Jerry's solution of having the all-time index on line sounds like a good one - but it would still be desirable to have an index on each CD. With the online index, there really isn't an issue of resolution/quality - on an index we're just interested in the information in readable/printable form. Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PennsyRRfan" Cc: ; Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Keystone Online vs. Keystone on CDs > On Friday, August 1, 2003, at 12:27 PM, PennsyRRfan wrote: > > > I would be much more interested in the hi-res CD option than in the > > online subscription at the current quality. It just wouldn't be worth > > an annual fee to see and print at such poor resolution. > > I previously expressed the same opinion privately. > > A drawback to the CD's however, is that you would not have > searchability over the entire life of the Keystone, just the one's on > the current CD. And there would be no way to add new issues to an > existing search index. The only workaround would be for the Society to > include an updated index on each new CD release. > > OR, have the master index online. It would return volume/issue > references. The results listing would be used as a sales tool to sell > CD's, each containing a volume or two, or to reference the CD's that > the viewer has already purchased. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 17:50:43 EDT Subject: [PRR] For Sale--S and HO Scale PRR Buildings Greetings, I have some of the new Trainstuff resin Pennsy buildings onhand, in both HO and S scale. These are easily assembled resin kits that have the nice feature of separate window and door castings, allowing much easier painting, and have very clean castings for resin kits (or plastic, for that matter). Available are a Pennsy "Standard Tool House" and Pennsy Scale House. In HO the tool house runs $11.00 and the scale house is $13.50. First class mailing in the US is $1.75 for one building, $2.25 for both. In S scale, the tool house runs $14.50 and the scale house is $16.75. Mailing for one is $2.50, $2.85 for both. Please advise me offline if you'd be interested. Scans available if you'd like. Thanks for looking. Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] TLC Publishing Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 18:21:23 -0400 Hi All, Has anyone RECENTLY called TLC Publishing wondering where the Passenger consist book is? I preordered it in October. I won't do that again! I last called in April stating early July as the shipping date. I have not called lately because I have been really busy at work, and am not up to possibly hearing "another 2 months because.........." Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John H. Wright" Subject: [PRR] Layout progress uploaded to web site Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 23:28:44 +0100 Dear all, An account of the last six months work on rebuilding my standard HO layout 'Franklinsburg' have now been uploaded to the website .... details of the trackplan, historical/geographical rationale, notes on construction etc. and some pictures of the layout emerging from the 'mess'. All being well the pages will gradually take the form of a diary, similar to those on my 'Federal Street' P87 layout. What you'll get is a 'warts 'n all' account .... if I screw up it'll be typed up:-) Please feel free to drop in from time to time. Go to http://www.xclent.clara.net Enter the site ..... then click on the 'Franklinsburg II' button. Regards, John H. Wright, Washington, England Websites at: http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/ and: http://www.xclent.clara.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 18:21:23 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] TLC Publishing Hi All, Has anyone RECENTLY called TLC Publishing wondering where the Passenger consist book is? I preordered it in October. I won't do that again! I last called in April stating early July as the shipping date. I have not called lately because I have been really busy at work, and am not up to possibly hearing "another 2 months because.........." Thanks Bill ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bennett Levin" Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] TLC Publishing Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 19:33:12 -0400 Peter Tilp is running their order fullfillment operation. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Lane" To: "PRR Fax" ; "PRR Talk" Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 6:21 PM Subject: [PRR-FAX] TLC Publishing > Hi All, > > Has anyone RECENTLY called TLC Publishing wondering where the Passenger > consist book is? I preordered it in October. I won't do that again! I last > called in April stating early July as the shipping date. I have not called > lately because I have been really busy at work, and am not up to possibly > hearing "another 2 months because.........." > > Thanks > > Bill > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark > Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 > http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. > > To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = > PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Chrisandbelton2@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 20:42:01 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] TLC Publishing --part1_31.3c276e4b.2c5c62d9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Tilp is the guy who screwed so many on an earlier pre-pub offer for a passenger car book, then threatened to sue PRRT&HS if they told anyone about it. I hope I get the consist book that I pre-ordered! --part1_31.3c276e4b.2c5c62d9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Peter Tilp is the guy who screwed so many on an earlie= r pre-pub offer for a passenger car book, then threatened to sue PRRT&HS= if they told anyone about it.  I hope I get the consist book that I pr= e-ordered! --part1_31.3c276e4b.2c5c62d9_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 18:42:17 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Layout progress uploaded to web site --- "John H. Wright" wrote: > An account of the last six months work on rebuilding my standard HO > layout > 'Franklinsburg' have now been uploaded to the website .... > All being well the pages will gradually take the form of a diary, > similar to > those on my 'Federal Street' P87 layout. What you'll get is a > 'warts 'n > all' account .... Speaking of warts, have there been any further developments on Federal Street, after the feline catastrophe? I'm wondering if the damage was as bad as, worse than, or not as bad as at first thought? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bennett Levin" Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 19:33:12 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] TLC Publishing Peter Tilp is running their order fullfillment operation. > Hi All, > > Has anyone RECENTLY called TLC Publishing wondering where the Passenger > consist book is? ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge & refill kit orders to US & Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark & more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mike Morrow" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Keystone Online vs. Keystone on CDs Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 15:46:21 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C3590D.38AFD440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's an exciting time to be a PRR modeler!!! The Keystone Modeler looks = fantastic as did the Keystone e-news: very professionally done. The = photo on the cover of TKM just about took my breath away when it came up = on my screen. My 2-cents on the Keystone CD's: I agree with Jerry that = an online searchable index of the Keystone with the individual CD's for = sale is the way to go.=20 Mike Morrow PRRT&HS #6703 ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C3590D.38AFD440 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It's an exciting time to be a PRR = modeler!!! The=20 Keystone Modeler looks fantastic as did the Keystone e-news: very = professionally=20 done.  The photo on the cover of TKM just about took my breath = away=20 when it came up on my screen. My 2-cents on the Keystone CD's: I agree = with=20 Jerry that an online searchable index of the Keystone with the = individual CD's=20 for sale is the way to go.
 
Mike Morrow
PRRT&HS = #6703
------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C3590D.38AFD440-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Comcast Mail" Subject: [PRR] VO-1000 (BS10) Horn. Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 17:05:19 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C35918.409CA240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List, Just finished off and dullcoted a Stewart VO-1000 and was wondering if = anybody had any info as to horn placement. Maybe a photo or something. = This loco is numbered PRR 5913. Doug (OH) ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C35918.409CA240 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
List,
 
Just finished off and dullcoted a = Stewart VO-1000=20 and was wondering if anybody had any info as to horn placement.  = Maybe a=20 photo or something.  This loco is numbered PRR 5913.
 
Doug (OH)
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C35918.409CA240-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harmantas, Andrew G TRADOC DCSOPS&T" Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 20:07:00 -0400 Subject: RE: [PRR-FAX] TLC Publishing Bill, and others waiting for the Pennsy pasenger car book from TLC Publishing, TLC is noted for long lead times from announcements to publication. I don't know that they have ever failed to deliver on a book once they announce it. They may be slow, but they take forever. Andrew Harmantas, reading books from near C&O Milepost FM Zero. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 21:18:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] #9957 List, Quick question. Anyone have the Edson's Steam Roster Book handy? Need to know which loco(s) carried road number 9957. Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: RE: [PRR] #9957 Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 21:40:30 -0400 Mr. Edson says it was an H8c, built by Alco. Construction number 48799 built 2/11 converted 7/19 to H10s. Sold for scrap 11/55 Cos Wayne S. Betty Cos Communications, Inc. Small business IT services. Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Gary Mittner Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 9:18 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] #9957 List, Quick question. Anyone have the Edson's Steam Roster Book handy? Need to know which loco(s) carried road number 9957. Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. Tracking #: 5D93FACFC21A3C43B75AE634B2993ED9613CD34D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 21:57:21 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] #9957 Gary: It was built by Alco (!) as an H8c in February 1911, c/n 48799, converted to an H10s in July 1919 and dropped from the roster in 1950. According to Edson, no other PRR locomotive carried this road number. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. Gary Mittner wrote: >List, > > Quick question. Anyone have the Edson's Steam Roster Book handy? >Need to know which loco(s) carried road number 9957. Thanks, Gary > > > > > > > >Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art >Work! > >PRR K4s Loco Pics: >http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ > >PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: > >http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > >and...... > >PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: > >http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 21:59:11 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] #9957, cx Wayne is correct on disposition, 11/55. Wayne S. Betty wrote: >Mr. Edson says it was an H8c, built by Alco. Construction number 48799 built >2/11 converted 7/19 to H10s. Sold for scrap 11/55 > >Cos >Wayne S. Betty >Cos Communications, Inc. >Small business IT services. > >Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road >NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 >NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 >http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm >at the west end of the PRR electrified zone > >-----Original Message----- >From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Gary Mittner >Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 9:18 PM >To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com >Subject: [PRR] #9957 > >List, > > Quick question. Anyone have the Edson's Steam Roster Book handy? >Need to know which loco(s) carried road number 9957. Thanks, Gary > > > > > > > >Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art >Work! > >PRR K4s Loco Pics: >http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ > >PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: > >http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > >and...... > >PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: > >http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > >Tracking #: 5D93FACFC21A3C43B75AE634B2993ED9613CD34D > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 22:02:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] #9957 List, Thanks for the info. The reason I asked is I spotted a PRR Bell this morning in, of all places, a roadside Flea Market in Florida. This was just the Bell, no cradle. 2 Loco numbers stamped in it. 5735 (a G5s) and 9957 (Now I know, an H8 later H10). Too expensive for me but is anyone interested in it? Contact me off list and I will let you know who to call.....Thanks again, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SMuel10363@aol.com Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 16:38:32 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 08/03/03 --part1_16a.2232079f.2c5eccc8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit is there a list that shows how many of each class of cars thar were made? ray mueller --part1_16a.2232079f.2c5eccc8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable is there a list that shows how many of each class of c= ars thar were made? ray mueller --part1_16a.2232079f.2c5eccc8_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walter Prusick" Subject: [PRR] "Commonwealth trucks" Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 18:20:21 -0400 guys, In wisiting my local hobby shop, I discovered 5 sets of Roundhouse Commonwealth passanger trucks in new wrappings. Remembering a previous discussion here of about a year ago(?), I figured I would tip those off who desired said trucks for their P70 cars(Eastern Car Works). Does this mean that they are available once again? Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "DON MURPHY" Subject: [PRR] PRR Passenger paint Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 07:38:19 -0400 Does anyone know what Model-Flex or Pollyscale color matches the new Walther's smooth side PRR passenger cars in postwar paint? Thanks. Don Murphy ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Doug Drew Subject: [PRR] PRR in 1954 CD-ROM Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 10:17:12 -0400 Nice endorsement from Tony the K in the newest Model Railroader about Jerry's latest CD-ROM. Since he's a modeler of American standard-gauge mainline railroading in the 50's, Tony's a Pennsy modeler as well as an NKP modeler. -- Doug Drew ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 10:26:50 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR in 1954 CD-ROM From: Jerry Britton On Monday, August 4, 2003, at 10:17 AM, Doug Drew wrote: > Nice endorsement from Tony the K in the newest Model Railroader > about Jerry's latest CD-ROM. > > Since he's a modeler of American standard-gauge mainline railroading > in the 50's, Tony's a Pennsy modeler as well as an NKP modeler. I was rather "floored" myself when I saw it! Tony called me about the product, and we had several conversations following. I figured it would end up a "typical" product announcement buried in the text of the MR News column. I also figured I had missed it since it was over six months ago that we discussed it. Needless to say I was quite pleased to see it got a headline and a photo. For those who didn't see it, I think it was page 35 or so in the new issue of Model Railroader. And, yes, Tony has found some PRR items of note via the CD. His NKP is coming along and I am currently working on his official web site, which includes a discussion forum. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 11:13:14 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] "Commonwealth trucks" The "Commonwealth" trucks are appropriate for the P70 FBr's only. These are the post war rebuilds with the porthole annex window. All other P70 variants had the "Pennsy Roller Bearing" truck which ,AFAIK, is still out of production :-(( Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Walter Prusick wrote: > guys, > In wisiting my local hobby shop, I discovered 5 sets of Roundhouse > Commonwealth passanger trucks in new wrappings. Remembering a previous > discussion here of about a year ago(?), I figured I would tip those off who > desired said trucks for their P70 cars(Eastern Car Works). Does this mean > that they are available once again? > > Walt Prusick > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] NJ Transit announces changes to incident response protocols Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 19:29:29 +0000 This was on Trains.com web site today. Is NJT really running trains without radiosor am I missing something? NEWARK, N.J. – Following a month plagued with extensive train delays and inconvenience to thousands of customers, including severe thunderstorms, power outages, trespasser fatalities, downed overhead electric catenary wires, and a train derailment, a 22-member task force was created to review passenger carrier NJ Transit’s response to major incidents. The task force, which included representatives from the two major unions, United Transportation Union and Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers, issued a number of recommendations, including: Stopping the first available train to the incident to rescue passengers Equipping trains and stations with bullhorns Establishing new crew size standards for 8-, 10- and 12-car trains Creating regional six-to-eight member “Go Teams” of NJ Transit managers who will be immediately deployed to incidents Equipping all train crews with radios to keep passengers better informed Displaying emergency procedures on all trains, with accompanying panel cards available at major terminals and stations. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Blackhawk" Subject: RE: [PRR] NJ Transit announces changes to incident response Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 12:58:07 -0700 Someone asked: This was on Trains.com web site today. Is NJT really running trains without radiosor am I missing something? ------ I think if you add the word "members" below, it makes more sense. Certainly the trains themselves have radios. However equipping all crew members with portables allows them to use the intercom to inform passengers of the reason for a delay, or to inform the conductor of a situation remotely. "...Equipping all train crew [MEMBERS] with radios to keep passengers better informed..." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bennett Levin" Subject: Re: [PRR] NJ Transit announces changes to incident response Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 16:12:19 -0400 I think I read elsewhere that not all crew members have radios. All trains do but not all crew. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 3:29 PM Subject: [PRR] NJ Transit E´unces changes to incident response protocols > This was on Trains.com web site today. Is NJT really running trains without > radiosor am I missing something? > > NEWARK, N.J. - Following a month plagued with extensive train delays and > inconvenience to thousands of customers, including severe thunderstorms, > power outages, trespasser fatalities, downed overhead electric catenary > wires, and a train derailment, a 22-member task force was created to review > passenger carrier NJ Transit's response to major incidents. > > The task force, which included representatives from the two major unions, > United Transportation Union and Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers, issued a > number of recommendations, including: > > Stopping the first available train to the incident to rescue passengers > Equipping trains and stations with bullhorns > Establishing new crew size standards for 8-, 10- and 12-car trains > Creating regional six-to-eight member "Go Teams" of NJ Transit managers who > will be immediately deployed to incidents > Equipping all train crews with radios to keep passengers better informed > Displaying emergency procedures on all trains, with accompanying panel cards > available at major terminals and stations. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 17:57:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Keith Thompson Subject: [PRR] Furnace (WH?) Tower in East Altoona --0-477753017-1060045024=:65171 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Does anybody on the list know anything about Furnace tower in East Altoona? I'm looking for photos of the tower. Thanks -- Keith Thompson --0-477753017-1060045024=:65171 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Does anybody on the list know anything about Furnace tower in East Altoona? I'm looking for photos of the tower. Thanks -- Keith Thompson
--0-477753017-1060045024=:65171-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 21:07:10 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Furnace (WH?) Tower in East Altoona From: Jerry @ Pennsy On Monday, August 4, 2003, at 08:57 PM, Keith Thompson wrote: > Does anybody on the list know anything about Furnace tower in East > Altoona? I'm looking for photos of the tower. Thanks -- Keith Thompson Don't know about "east Altoona", but just east of Altoona, more specifically, just east of Tyrone there was "Union Furnace" block station. We're talking about 15 miles from downtown Altoona. Don't know if that is what you are referring to or not. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 18:24:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Keith Thompson Subject: Re: [PRR] Furnace (WH?) Tower in East Altoona --0-140862446-1060046665=:40453 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks Jerry but I'm looking for the interlocking tower just to the south of the East Altoona passenger station between the westbound loaded receiving and classification yards. It's referenced in a track diagram in "Triumph IV" on page 225. You can also see it referenced in the big map of Altoona in the same book. No photos though. Thanks again! -- kt Jerry@Pennsy, UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR. wrote: On Monday, August 4, 2003, at 08:57 PM, Keith Thompson wrote: > Does anybody on the list know anything about Furnace tower in East > Altoona? I'm looking for photos of the tower. Thanks -- Keith Thompson Don't know about "east Altoona", but just east of Altoona, more specifically, just east of Tyrone there was "Union Furnace" block station. We're talking about 15 miles from downtown Altoona. Don't know if that is what you are referring to or not. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com --0-140862446-1060046665=:40453 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Thanks Jerry but I'm looking for the interlocking tower just to the south of the East Altoona passenger station between the westbound loaded receiving and classification yards. It's referenced in a track diagram in "Triumph IV" on page 225. You can also see it referenced in the big map of Altoona in the same book. No photos though. Thanks again! -- kt

Jerry@Pennsy, UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR. wrote:
On Monday, August 4, 2003, at 08:57 PM, Keith Thompson wrote:

> Does anybody on the list know anything about Furnace tower in East
> Altoona? I'm looking for photos of the tower. Thanks -- Keith Thompson

Don't know about "east Altoona", but just east of Altoona, more
specifically, just east of Tyrone there was "Union Furnace" block
station. We're talking about 15 miles from downtown Altoona. Don't know
if that is what you are referring to or not.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com
Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale.
"Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
http://kc.pennsyrr.com
"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products...
http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com
--0-140862446-1060046665=:40453-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 02:01:14 -0400 From: Owen Thorne Subject: [PRR] Online vs. CD-Rom and the future of the Keystone Hi Al- Thanks for all your good work on this (and so many other) PRR history project. I've always enjoyed the old-fashioned hardcopy Keystones and I would vote for reprints a la Phila Chapter High Line (and more recently through the kind offices of President Dick Adams) but as that was not one of the choices your note proffered ...here is some quick feedback for you guys at PRRTHS HQ. I, too, had trouble with the picture quality online. I have second generation xeroxes that look better. Could the site be reformatted to make the pictures each fill a screen? Is the resolution even there to be accessed? Others with more sophisticated computer skills may have had more success than I. Alot of people have basic computer skills but will not really want to master Adobe or Photoshop's latest version just to look up a photo reference for a model on the workbench (that old hardcopy is real easy, there!) While I don't really know about the probability of alot of members or non-members maintaining a paid online annual subscription in case they want to look something up (and the requisite billing headaches at your end;) I do know that in my eighteen years as a retailer, it was alot easier to sell someone a bunch of good stuff when they were in the store than to get 'em to remember that good experience and come back next Christmas. I suspect many people would buy large, cost effective blocks of old Keystones on CD-Rom (modelers and rail historians tend to be collectors (hoarders?) by their nature) to fill out or replace their library as so many old issues are impossible to find - IF - and here is the key - the society can demonstrate the CD-Roms' photo quality and ease of use is better than what we use now. That means better picture quality and flexibility; reformatted, modernized content where necessary and available; and thorough, convenient indexing with updated cross-references in a cost-effective package. Tall order. Those who do buy might then release some old, now surplus, hardcopy issues back into circulation to help those not ready to convert to computer research tools to fill out their back issue files. Furthermore, if the Society could maintain a free updated online index referencing both the magazines and ROM data locations - and print on paper and CD and sell copies of that index for those without easy computer access at the annual meeting or through back of Keystone, and also at hobby shops and through the popular hobby press to help defray index costs - we would have a selling tool for both members who have not yet bought the CDs and for non-members looking for PRR info. After all, attracting new members should be a primary goal for our aging group if we hope to be around (and viable) in coming decades. Also, selling a CD now puts the money in the board's hands rather than hoping people keep paying online each year down the road. Or maybe offer both online and on CD-Rom, if it is not too much extra work for the board. Which brings me to the second part of my letter. The Keystone is my favourite publication of the thirty-five or so to which I subscribe each year - because I love the Pennsy. But I fear that excluding modeling from our society organ is not a constructive way to treat the problem of a shrinking membership and the difficulty in getting younger people to join and then renew their memberships. Modelers ought to be as closely embraced as those who love N2sa, Brooklyn subways, 19th century dining car china, Pennsy airplanes, catenary pole variations, and the Camden and Amboy's stone sleepers have been. The Snapper has been a favourite part of the quarterly experience for me over the decades and it provides a natural place for PRR modeling info to spring forth from; but it's recent de-emphasis and subsequent exiling of oft-requested modeling topics, articles, reviews and forums to on-line-only status is troubling. I had hoped the publication of Chuck Cover's interesting NX23 kitbashing article was a positive turning point...were there instead great cries of anguish from some quarter of the membership I am out of touch with? If the plan is to grow the group, expand interest in the PRR, share our love for the history with a wider, younger audience; the best way to do so is by increasing our appeal to those who also model the PRR, whether their primary road of interest or not, and provide them with a product that is more inclusive, attractive, useful and timely in nature rather than turn them away to the web. If a fellow hobbyist who models the SP, Erie or NYC picks up an issue in a hobbyshop or through an online information reference because it contains an article on modeling mill gons, or painting cross-country 10-6 sleepers they have need for in interchange, likes the publication and sends in dues for next year - that is a big win for everyone! Not only will he/she join our fellowship and help to accelerate all of our journey toward the understanding and love of PRR history by their subscription dollars, but also hopefully through eventual contribution by active participation. Every Keystone issue should thus be a powerful evangelical instrument containing something for everyone, an invitation to anyone interested in any facet of railroading to join our fellowship and to support the working end of the Society with their ideas, articles, pictures a™– ×ithes. Otherwise, by our maintaining and projecting a rigid, exclusive, divisive, and frankly outdated, philosphy of straight history only; we stand to alienate a large block of the current and potential future generations of membership and risk the very future of the Society and its noble mission of gathering, keeping, and promoting the history and preservation of all things PRR. I know this has been at issue since I joined the group in the 70's and in that time Mr. Blardone and other dedicated officers and contributors have continued to maintain the best publication in the field. I know the proverbial dead horse has been beaten senseless only very recently at meetings and in online forums but we must not lose sight of the goal: Increase the membership ranks by broadening interest or continue to see costs and dues rise, forcing more members to give up and spend their shrinking renewal dollars elsewhere. Thanks again. Owen Thorne Member#2461, PhilaChap#1176. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: [PRR] PRR loco lettering drawings Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 00:59:27 -0500 Pennsy Journal published many locomotive lettering diagrams during its run. Specifically, Vol 1 #1 had passenger sharks, Vol 1 #2 had PAs, Vol 1 #4 had F3s, and Vol 2 #4 had F7s. All four of these issues referenced PRR tracing # C-15477 for 8" numerals and C-97662 and C-97663 for 8" letters. I am interested in purchasing photocopies of C-15477, C-97662, & C-97663. If anybody has these drawings and is willing to copy them for me, I'd appreciate hearing from you. Alternatively, if anybody has originals they'd be willing to part with, I'm interested too. Thank you, Andy Cich P.S. PRRT&HS microfilm generally has pre-1950 drawings, so I have not tried asking them. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] Online vs. CD-Rom and the future of the Keystone Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 09:09:28 -0400 Owen, et al: Your comments were extremely thought provoking. I tend to agree with your analysis of the trends for the future. ANYTHING that attracts new people to be card-carrying-members is a good thing! I noticed that my son's interest in the Sante Fe RR led him to the Sante Fe Historical society many years ago. Somewhere along the line, the historical focus of the group was replaced by the focus of the modelers. These modelers are still avid historians, but as a means to an end. The Sante Fe group has survived and, more importantly, it has grown and continues to produce a credible magazine. Perhaps we need to look closely at this approach for the survival of the PRRT&HS as a viable society. In the under 40 group, the probability is that there are more hobbyists out there than historians. The group under 40 has not been exposed to the sulpherous smell of a straining T1 or the ozone of the P5 breaking ice on winter wires or have treasured elongated pennies squashed under the wheels of an A5 while shunting in city streets. None the less, this group is as avid as the "old-timers" in their search for historical accuracy. The under 40 group has an entirely different milieu from which springs their interest in things PRR. This is neither good nor bad, appropriate or not, it just is. The old adage says "let your light shine". Some people tend to interpret that to mean that if your light is outshined by another's light, that it is OK to cover the other light to make yours look brighter. I think there is room in the society and magazine for both philosophies: scale modeling and history. For many of us, we would be hard pressed to make a choice between one or the other. Lew PRRT&HS #6107 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Owen Thorne" To: ; "Modeling, PRR" ; "Talk, PRR" Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 2:01 AM Subject: [PRR] Online vs. CD-Rom and the future of the Keystone > Hi Al- > Thanks for all your good work on this (and so many other) PRR history > project. I've always enjoyed the old-fashioned hardcopy Keystones and I > would vote for reprints a la Phila Chapter High Line (and more recently > through the kind H›ces of President Dick Adams) but as that was not > one of the choices your note proffered ...here is some quick feedback > for you guys at PRRTHS HQ. > I, too, had trouble with the picture quality online. I have second > generation xeroxes that look better. Could the site be reformatted to > make the pictures each fill a screen? Is the resolution even there to be > accessed? Others with more sophisticated computer skills may have had > more success than I. Alot of people have basic computer skills but will > not really want to master Adobe or Photoshop's latest version just to > look up a photo reference for a model on the workbench (that old > hardcopy is real easy, there!) While I don't really know about the > probability of alot of members or non-members maintaining a paid online > annual subscription in case they want to look something up (and the > requisite billing headaches at your end;) I do know that in my eighteen > years as a retailer, it was alot easier to sell someone a bunch of good > stuff when they were in the store than to get 'em to remember that good > experience and come back next Christmas. I suspect many people would buy > large, cost effective blocks of old Keystones on CD-Rom (modelers and > rail historians tend to be collectors (hoarders?) by their nature) to > fill out or replace their library as so many old issues are impossible > to find - IF - and here is the key - the society can demonstrate the > CD-Roms' photo quality and ease of use is better than what we use now. > That means better picture quality and flexibility; reformatted, > modernized content where necessary and available; and thorough, > convenient indexing with updated cross-references in a cost-effective > package. Tall order. Those who do buy might then release some old, now > surplus, hardcopy issues back into circulation to help those not ready > to convert to computer research tools to fill out their back issue > files. > Furthermore, if the Society could maintain a free updated online index > referencing both the magazines and ROM data locations - and print on > paper and CD and sell copies of that index for those without easy > computer access at the annual meeting or through back of Keystone, and > also at hobby shops and through the popular hobby press to help defray > index costs - we would have a selling tool for both members who have not > yet bought the CDs and for non-members looking for PRR info. After all, > attracting new members should be a primary goal for our aging group if > we hope to be around (and viable) in coming decades. Also, selling a CD > now puts the money in the board's hands rather than hoping people keep > paying online each year down the road. > Or maybe offer both online and on CD-Rom, if it is not too much extra > work for the board. Which brings me to the second part of my letter. > The Keystone is my favourite publication of the thirty-five or so to > which I subscribe each year - because I love the Pennsy. But I fear > that excluding modeling from our society organ is not a constructive way > to treat the problem of a shrinking membership and the difficulty in > getting younger people to join and then renew their memberships. > Modelers ought to be as closely embraced as those who love N2sa, > Brooklyn subways, 19th century dining car china, Pennsy airplanes, > catenary pole variations, and the Camden and Amboy's stone sleepers have > been. > The Snapper has been a favourite part of the quarterly experience for > me over the decades and it provides a natural place for PRR modeling > info to spring forth from; but it's recent de-emphasis and subsequent > exiling of oft-requested modeling topics, articles, reviews and forums > to on-line-only status is troubling. I had hoped the publication of > Chuck Cover's interesting NX23 kitbashing article was a positive turning > point...were there instead great cries of anguish from some quarter of > the membership I am out of touch with? If the plan is to grow the group, > expand interest in the PRR, share our love for the history with a wider, > younger audience; the best way to do so is by increasing our appeal to > those who also model the PRR, whether their primary road of interest or > not, and provide them with a product that is more inclusive, attractive, > useful and timely in nature rather than turn them away to the web. If a > fellow hobbyist who models the SP, Erie or NYC picks up an issue in a > hobbyshop or through an online information reference because it contains > an article on modeling mill gons, or painting cross-country 10-6 > sleepers they have need for in interchange, likes the publication and > sends in dues for next year - that is a big win for everyone! Not only > will he/she join our fellowship and help to accelerate all of our > journey toward the understanding and love of PRR history by their > subscription dollars, but also hopefully through eventual contribution > by active participation. Every Keystone issue should thus be a powerful > evangelical instrument containing something for everyone, an invitation > to anyone interested in any facet of railroading to join our fellowship > and to support the working end of the Society with their ideas, > articles, pictures and tithes. Otherwise, by our maintaining and > projecting a rigid, exclusive, divisive, and frankly outdated, philosphy > of straight history only; we stand to alienate a large block of the > current and potential future generations of membership and risk the very > future of the Society and its noble mission of gathering, keeping, and > promoting the history and preservation of all things PRR. > I know this has been at issue since I joined the group in the 70's and > in that time Mr. Blardone and other dedicated officers and contributors > have continued to maintain the best publication in the field. I know the > proverbial dead horse has been beaten senseless only very recently at > meetings and in online forums but we must not lose sight of the goal: > Increase the membership ranks by broadening interest or continue to see > costs and dues rise, forcing more members to give up and spend their > shrinking renewal dollars elsewhere. Thanks again. > Owen Thorne > Member#2461, PhilaChap#1176. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] RE: [PRR-Modeling] Online vs. CD-Rom and the future of the Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 09:48:03 -0400 RE: Owen Thorne's comments " But I fear that excluding modeling from our society organ is not a constructive way to treat the problem of a shrinking membership and the difficulty in getting younger people to join and then renew their memberships. Modelers ought to be as closely embraced ....... The Snapper has been a favourite part of the quarterly experience for me over the decades and it provides a natural place for PRR modeling info to spring forth from; but it's recent de-emphasis and subsequent exiling of oft-requested modeling topics, articles, reviews and forums to on-line-only status is troubling. The Society has recognized the need for providing more information to the PRR modeler. The publication of "The Snapper," which amounted to only a couple of pages every quarter, was inadequate. To more adequately address the modeling issue a modeling committee has be formed and we have launched a new online monthly magazine "The Keystone Modeler," The rational for its birth was expressed in both the July edition of "The Keystone e-NEWS" and the August (first) edition of "The Keystone Modeler" (TKM). There will also be a similar statement in the autumn "Keystone," and there will be no more modeling information in "The Keystone." The core of this rationale as stated in the first edition of TKM is - Technical and historical information about the PRR is definitive or completed (as best we know it), and is best documented in a permanent printed publication such as "The Keystone." On the other hand, modeling information is generally short-lived, in that it is constantly changing and in need of periodic updates based on new and better products and techniques. Therefore, modeling information is better suited to an environment where additions and changes can be made and updated to keep up with state of the art modeling. As a result, we are establishing this new online modeling magazine, "The Keystone Modeler" (TKM), to announce and review new PRR products and present articles of interest about PRR modeling. If you do not now receive TKM send a blank e-mail to: Or visit our website www.prrths.com to view it. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Paul and Dot" Subject: [PRR] NX23 Kitbash Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:08:35 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C35B39.885D8680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am interested in finding the article mentioned in the email from Owen = Thorne that was done by Chuck Cover concerning the kitbash of the NX23. = I have an older copy of an article about this particular piece of = equipment. With the release of the Westerfield kit of the X23, this = should be a fairly easy kitbash. I would be specifically looking for the = porthole windows and the bay windows. Thanks in advance. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C35B39.885D8680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am interested in finding the article mentioned in = the email=20 from Owen Thorne that was done by Chuck Cover concerning the kitbash of = the=20 NX23. I have an older copy of an article about this particular piece of=20 equipment. With the release of the Westerfield kit of the X23, this = should be a=20 fairly easy kitbash. I would be specifically looking for the porthole = windows=20 and the bay windows.
Thanks in advance.
Paul
------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C35B39.885D8680-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] NX23 Kitbash Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 14:31:07 +0000 Paul wrote: With the release of the Westerfield kit of the X23, this should be a fairly easy kitbash. I would be specifically looking for the porthole windows and the bay windows. Just a couple of pitfalls to watch out for with the Westerfield kit (through no fault with the kit's accuracy whatsoever): - Find a prototype which kept the vertical sheathing of the as-built boxcar. Some boxcars and cabins received horizontal sheathing and had bracing removed over the years. Here's a cabin that fits the bill from Rob's website: http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?photo=NX23_Urbana% 20caboose_KenDavis.JPG&fr=clNX23 - One-piece resin bodies tend to be thicker due to the casting process - something to take into account when planning for doors and windows. Of course, if I do one of these kitbashes, the Rail Classics model that I reserved will finally show up...I'd also be interetd in a copy of the article if one turns up! Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 10:59:35 -0400 From: Owen Thorne Subject: Re: [PRR] NX23 Kitbash Paul & list- Chuck Cover's article on NX23 appeared in Keystone, v.35, #2, Summer 2002, p.5-6. As part of 'The Snapper' section, it does not appear on the cover, or in the table of contents, and is thus difficult to find when needed. This causes anyone wishing to refer to a previosly published modeling reference, current news item, book or product review, or letter to page through every issue in the stack! Let's hope any online or CD-Rom indexing project addresses this continuing problem as well as that of the oft-mentioned photo cross-referencing. Thanks, Owen Thorne ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 12:47:21 -0400 From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: [PRR] South Fork Branch track chart Does anyone have a copy of an early to mid 50's track chart of the South Fork branch and the associated branches which arise for it who would be willing to copy it for me? I am willing to pay for the copy and shipping. I need this for modeling purposes. Please contact me off list. Thanks. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 16:07:08 -0400 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR loco lettering drawings Andy, This might not go through to PRR-FAX because I signed off that list, so if you could forward it I would appreciate it. > Pennsy Journal published many locomotive lettering diagrams during its run. Specifically, Vol 1 #1 had passenger sharks, Vol 1 #2 had PAs, Vol 1 #4 had F3s, and Vol 2 #4 had F7s.< Correct! > All four of these issues referenced PRR tracing # C-15477 for 8" numerals and C-97662 and C-97663 for 8" letters.< Ditto > I am interested in purchasing photocopies of C-15477, C-97662, & C-97663. If anybody has these drawings and is willing to copy them for me, I'd appreciate hearing from you. Alternatively, if anybody has originals they'd be willing to part with, I'm interested too.< You can contact my brother Ed Martin who, I believe, has all teh copies plus the FP-7's as well. (ELM2@alo.com)Ed was a very close freind of Bob Reid. Also, the original EMD drawings were domnated to the NMRA in Chattanooga by Bruce Meyer (Ex EMD marketing) several years back. you might remember the drawings and article he had presented in AMinline Modeler in the early 80's, albeit they never got around to doing the PRR subjects. You might search there if you would like the EMD presentation of the drawings. > Thank you, > Andy Cich > P.S. PRRT&HS microfilm generally has pre-1950 drawings, so I have not tried asking them.< Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] PRR Modeling and the "under 40 group" Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 07:14:46 -0400 Hi All, Having just turned 41 last week, I almost fit in the "under 40" group. I have been a member of the Phila. Chapter & National for about 12 years now. I was on the younger side when I joined, and based on what I have seen at every convention since 1988, am still on the younger side of the membership age scale. MODELING the PRR is the only way I can experience the PRR first hand! My only memories of the PRR are seeing a GG1 & E44 once or twice on family trips to the Philadelphia area. I was still running my American Flyer at that point, about to transition into my HO period. It has been discussed MANY times that seeing something that was genuine PRR roll down the rails is a rare sight indeed. The Levin's trains are about the only thing going now. The K4 will be coming at some point. I DO consider myself to be a PRR Historian and researcher. Anyone who has amassed a collection of 1200 PRR Builders Photos and hundreds of PRR construction drawings in 8 years may be a needed information source in the future. I have done this to make my MODELS as accurate as possible. Evolve! It is not that painful. The PRR T &HS is taking steps for the future by embracing modeling. I have wondered MANY times about the viability of the Society, the Keystone, and holding large events like the Annual Meeting in 20 years from now. Realize and appreciate the gifts that you are getting now from people like Chuck Blardone and Al Buchan. It is not going to be forever folks! I believe the saying that 5% of the people do 95% of the work is not far off when it comes to volunteer organizations! The Santa Fe Society was recently mentioned in a post. The difference here is that the Santa Fe still exists today in a modified version. The PRR has been gone for over 30 years now, with the main era of interest at 45+ years. I believe this to be a significant different. People need to be exposed to something in everyday live to make them aware of its existence. I am very confidant that Al Buchan will successfully bring the society into the computer age. Rant over. I have to go to work now! Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 07:14:46 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR Modeling and the "under 40 group" Hi All, Having just turned 41 last week, I almost fit in the "under 40" group. I have been a member of the Phila. Chapter & National for about 12 years now. I was on the younger side when I joined, and based on what I have seen at every convention since 1988, am still on the younger side of the membership age scale. MODELING the PRR is the only way I can experience the PRR first hand! My only memories of the PRR are seeing a GG1 & E44 once or twice on family trips to the Philadelphia area. I was still running my American Flyer at that point, about to transition into my HO period. It has been discussed MANY times that seeing something that was genuine PRR roll down the rails is a rare sight indeed. The Levin's trains are about the only thing going now. The K4 will be coming at some point. I DO consider myself to be a PRR Historian and researcher. Anyone who has amassed a collection of 1200 PRR Builders Photos and hundreds of PRR construction drawings in 8 years may be a needed information source in the future. I have done this to make my MODELS as accurate as possible. Evolve! It is not that painful. The PRR T &HS is taking steps for the future by embracing modeling. I have wondered MANY times about the viability of the Society, the Keystone, and holding large events like the Annual Meeting in 20 years from now. Realize and appreciate the gifts that you are getting now from people like Chuck Blardone and Al Buchan. It is not going to be forever folks! I believe the saying that 5% of the people do 95% of the work is not far off when it comes to volunteer organizations! The Santa Fe Society was recently mentioned in a post. The difference here is that the Santa Fe still exists today in a modifť‚ ×version. The PRR has been gone for over 30 years now, with the main era of interest at 45+ years. I believe this to be a significant different. People need to be exposed to something in everyday live to make them aware of its existence. I am very confidant that Al Buchan will successfully bring the society into the computer age. Rant over. I have to go to work now! Thanks Bill ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 08:16:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Future of PRRT&HS (was): PRR Modeling and the "under 40 Bill & List.... I often wonder how many of the 'new generation" railfans will join the PRRT&HS. I don't see many members that are under 30 years of age. Today's youth see the PRR as just an old railroad from the past. Growing up the the late 1960s/early 70s with the Penn Central, there was still a connection with the PRR. Hundreds of cars still marked "PRR". GG1s and E44s still running. Lots of first gen diesels still running. Today, there is no connection to the past when you look at Norfolk Southern or CSX. Only the restored PRR E8s give us a link to the past. I wonder where the PRRT&HS will be in 10 years. Will it be a much smaller group? Just my two cents worth. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 08:17:31 -0400 Subject: [PRR] R2R P85 Coaches! From: Jerry Britton Varnish modelers rejoice! The Des Plaines Hobbies P85's have been available in kit form in N scale for nearly two years. It's been known that ready to run cars, via InterMountain have been coming. It's also been speculated that HO ready to run cars would also be coming, eventually, via InterMountain. I got a call from InterMountain last week and was told that the N scale cars should arrive in early September and the HO cars in late September. I have not yet received my dealer memo for August, but I suspect the N scale cars will be on it, as the HO cars are now list on the "future releases" page whereas the N scale cars are not, and they are supposed to arrive first! Here's the link to IM's "future releases" page... http://www.intermountain-railway.com/newscomingsoon.html ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 08:25:46 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Future of PRRT&HS (was): PRR Modeling and the "under 40 From: Jerry Britton On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 08:16 AM, zootowerprr@webtv.net wrote: > I often wonder how many of the 'new generation" railfans will > join the PRRT&HS. I don't see many members that are under 30 years of > age. Today's youth see the PRR as just an old railroad from the past. Most (IMHO) of our future young members will be modelers seeking prototype information. If that assumption pans out as correct, may I suggest: * During the annual fall open houses in southeast PA/south NJ/north DE (80 or so layouts) that are hosted by Society members, that they put out PRRT&HS materials; * That we, as a Society, promote a national open house weekend of PRR layouts and encourage children (of a reasonable age) to attend with parents. Perhaps age 10 and older or so (though my five year old runs Digitrax/Soundtraxx quite well!). ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 08:30:47 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] R2R P85 Coaches! Varnish collectors might rejoice, but varnish modelers want to know when The HO kits will be available. I don't like paying some Chinese person to enjoy my hobby for me! Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > Varnish modelers rejoice! > > The Des Plaines Hobbies P85's have been available in kit form in N > scale for nearly two years. It's been known that ready to run cars, via > InterMountain have been coming. It's also been speculated that HO ready > to run cars would also be coming, eventually, via InterMountain. > > I got a call from InterMountain last week and was told that the N scale > cars should arrive in early September and the HO cars in late September. > > I have not yet received my dealer memo for August, but I suspect the N > scale cars will be on it, as the HO cars are now list on the "future > releases" page whereas the N scale cars are not, and they are supposed > to arrive first! > > Here's the link to IM's "future releases" page... > > http://www.intermountain-railway.com/newscomingsoon.html > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 08:46:46 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] R2R P85 Coaches! From: Jerry Britton On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 08:30 AM, Andrew S. Miller wrote: > Varnish collectors might rejoice, but varnish modelers want to know > when The > HO kits will be available. I don't like paying some Chinese person to > enjoy > my hobby for me! I don't think you'll ever see them. I'm told from sources within IM and DPH that ready-to-run is what the market wants. IM's stock of kits has dwindled to nearly nothing. Red Caboose is doing the same thing. My own stock of kits (IM and Red Caboose) has barely moved in two years. I quit ordering kits. I'll special order if someone wants them and they are available, but they are no longer worth the overhead to keep in stock. The down side of R2R is that they are not openly available. They are "limited release". Each month companies like InterMountain, Red Caboose, Micro-Trains, etc., will announce what they are running. If you want an offering, you'd better reserve, cause over half of the products are sold out by the time they arrive. The balance goes into the warehouse, but rarely lasts for more than a few months. Good news is that re-runs are done with new road numbers fairly frequently on the most popular cars. IM has some cars that have been released in over 80 road numbers! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] PRR Modeling and the "under 40 group" (long) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 08:42:56 -0500 I have been a strong objector to modeling in the Keystone. The article on the NX23 was for all intents and purposes obsolete the day it was published (please, no slur intended on the modeling and writing skills of the builder) , based as it was on obscure kit parts of a different generation of tooling. The introduction of the Westerfield X23 further dated it. If I had saved any of them (I have kept very few modeling magazines the last 50 years) I would be happy to paper your walls with old PRR modeling articles which you would laugh at. OTOH, I have collected all but a few Trains magazines 1943 to 1954, the era I model. And starting with back issues, I have about 27 years of the Keystone. By the way, the few issues of MR et al that I did save most likely were saved for a prototype article or plan in it, lets say a John Armstrong article on Yards. Having said that, technology marches on and my principal reasons for objecting, waste of space and rapid obsolescence (to say nothing about adding clutter to wade through in a search), is all but eliminated in the lastest proposals by Al Buchan and others. Thus, giving a classic example, having a complete set of National Geographic requires a second home. The CD-ROM version occupies about a foot of shelf space. In doing the CD-ROM version, they included ads and all (a part of history, including railroad advertising, which is valuable). And it is searchable on a certain level. The points about the under-40 members are well taken. Having argued against merging modeling and history in one publication, now I hope that our best historians participate in the modeling web publication. Otherwise there is the danger of the the rapid exchange and perpetuation of misinformation. I have long contended that the problem I see with some so-called model railroaders is that they are trying to duplicate their idea of a railroad as they remember their Lionel Christmas tree layout, not any prototype. So far groups like the PRRT&HS and the PRR web chat lists have helped SPFs avoid much of that trap. A little more than my $.02 worth. And again BTW, though I am at an age where I don't buy green bananas, I am a modeler, not an historian---having been too busy to observe the railroads in any detail in my youth. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Model railroad thoughts and questions Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 14:39:50 +0000 I definitely want to model the corridor somewhere between Zoo and Trenton. My original thoughts were to selectively compress the area on two levels with a dogbone layout and sling clockers and through freights run by towers in addition to locals. I am beginning to form an idea that I need help with as an alternative. I figure that a much more detailed and prototypical run could be made by seriously modeling a very small portion of this area. the idea forming is to run the railroad diagonaly across the basement from one corner to the other and have either a dogbone or a round and round with the staging behind the visible portion in the point of the triangle it creates. I could still run the volume through the area but what I need is an area that would have a yard and some fairly heavy local traffic so that I could do more than watch the trains go round. Any thoughts as to the concept or a specific area to model? It would certainly minimize the maintenance aspect over a two level railroad. The area around N. Philly appears to have the most potential initially since all passenger trains stopped there. The N. Phl. Tower operator could act as dispatcher. Margie yard is nearby. I could also run PRSL traffic. Local industry could be a problem. I don't think there are industrial branches or areas like Holmeburg offers. Interchange traffic would benonexistant in the N. Phl. area. If a 50' length could be done it would equal about 8/10 of a mile in HO and allow lots of room for operators and operation in real time rather than fast time. I suspect I will still need to selectively compress the yard area although much of that could be hidden in the staging area and some sidings but it could work. With the staging area behind the visible portion I could also put MP54's out the Chestnut Hill line. An engine terminal would be out of the question. I'm sure I have missed something and haven't thought it all through yet. Thanks for any input or suggestions. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 10:55:50 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Model railroad thoughts and questions From: Jerry Britton On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 10:39 AM, ndbprr@att.net wrote: > the > idea forming is to run the railroad diagonaly across the basement from > one > corner to the other and have either a dogbone or a round and round > with the > staging behind the visible portion in the point of the triangle it > creates. And while operated as a point-to-point layout, you'd also have the easy option of continuous running for open houses...or to recirculate common trains, such as clockers. You also might consider a point on the system where a flyover or interchange occurs, such as MORRIS, with its connection tot he Trenton Cut-Off (http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Prr/Maps/Itlk/morris.gif). This would make dispatching much more challenging as you would be interspersing freight traffic with passenger traffic. The Trenton Cut-Off could just be a staging yard stacked over one of the other yards. Another candidate would be SHORE, where the New Jersey traffic breaks off the corridor. You could model all of the Atlantic City specials! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bennett Levin" Subject: Re: [PRR] Model railroad thoughts and questions Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 11:21:07 -0400 Not so fast. There were two yards with interesting operations betweeen North Phila and Shore. C St Yard and Fairhill Yard. The Oxford Rd Branch carried massive amounts for express (B-60, R50, REA, X-29) traffic to and from Sears' Distribution Center. C Street served many local industries with some street trackage north of the main line accessed from the Oxford Road Br. Cuneo Press printed TIME and it went out in express cars also. Fairhill Yard served industries from Philco to Bethlehem Steel and a branch the went to industries to the south. The LCL business for Philadelphia was concentrated at Fairhill yard, and when RBBB came to town the circus train was parked there when the circus was under the tent at Lighthouse field. the area from Ford to Zoo has terrific opportunities for modeling and operations. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Model railroad thoughts and questions > On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 10:39 AM, ndbprr@att.net wrote: > > > the > > idea forming is to run the railroad diagonaly across the basement from > > one > > corner to the other and have either a dogbone or a round and round > > with the > > staging behind the visible portion in the point of the triangle it > > creates. > > And while operated as a point-to-point layout, you'd also have the easy > option of continuous running for open houses...or to recirculate common > trains, such as clockers. > > You also might consider a point on the system where a flyover or > interchange occurs, such as MORRIS, with its connection tot he Trenton > Cut-Off (http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Prr/Maps/Itlk/morris.gif). > This would make dispatching much more challenging as you would be > interspersing freight traffic with passenger traffic. The Trenton > Cut-Off could just be a staging yard stacked over one of the other > yards. > > Another candidate would be SHORE, where the New Jersey traffic breaks > off the corridor. You could model all of the Atlantic City specials! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 11:48:41 -0400 From: Owen Thorne Subject: Re: [PRR] R2R P85 Coaches! What a shame! I guess that means those of us who like to buy, build, repaint, kitbash, and collect kits have not been voting often enough with our wallets. I have been less than satisfied with foreign assembled HO cars I have examined lately. Sloppy glue and/or paint work is often evident even before removal from the box. Most people I know who run trains regularly prefer metal grabs and steps for durabilty - much more difficult to retrofit an already built model than on a kit version. Then try to match the paint! Also, running gear usually needs work and cars almost always require added weight; often defeating any advantage to me of pre-assembly. I understand that the I-M and Red Caboose investors make a higher profit margin on R-T-R equipment but PLEASE offer models either way for those of us who still build. BTW, Kadee R-T-R PS-1 boxcars (the unsurpassed industry standard) have always been exceptionally well constructed (I have 40 examples now) but I believe they are assembled domestically. Also their delrin parts are tough as nails in operation though a bit difficult to paint! Here's to hoping I-M's Chinese labor force assembles carefully, paints correctly in avariety of car numbers, and details adequately the PRR P85 models or we will be tearing apart, stripping, repainting and redetailing those expensive R-T-R cars. Again, easier and cheaper to buy the kit. Are interiors planned? Owen Thorne PRRTHS#2461 Happily modeling the mid fifties Jerry Britton wrote: > > On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 08:30 AM, Andrew S. Miller wrote: > > > Varnish collectors might rejoice, but varnish modelers want to know > > when The > > HO kits will be available. I don't like paying some Chinese person to > > enjoy > > my hobby for me! > > I don't think you'll ever see them. > > I'm told from sources within IM and DPH that ready-to-run is what the > market wants. IM's stock of kits has dwindled to nearly nothing. Red > Caboose is doing the same thing. > > My own stock of kits (IM and Red Caboose) has barely moved in two > years. I quit ordering kits. I'll special order if someone wants them > and they are available, but they are no longer worth the overhead to > keep in stock. > > The down side of R2R is that they are not openly available. They are > "limited release". Each month companies like InterMountain, Red > Caboose, Micro-Trains, etc., will announce what they are running. If > you want an offering, you'd better reserve, cause over half of the > products are sold out by the time they arrive. The balance goes into > the warehouse, but rarely lasts for more than a few months. Good news > is that re-runs are done with new road numbers fairly frequently on the > most popular cars. IM has some cars that have been released in over 80 > road numbers! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad proˇk ×s... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 11:53:55 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] R2R P85 Coaches! From: Jerry Britton On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 11:48 AM, Owen Thorne wrote: > Here's to hoping I-M's Chinese labor force assembles carefully, > paints > correctly in avariety of car numbers, and details adequately the PRR > P85 > models or we will be tearing apart, stripping, repainting and > redetailing those expensive R-T-R cars. Again, easier and cheaper to > buy > the kit. Are interiors planned? I understand the frustrations of those who prefer to build and paint... InterMountain has previously done build-ups of Reading and B&M coaches and combines from Bethlehem Car Works and they came back looking fantastic. I sold quite a few of them. My recollection is that they had interiors, but they definitely had sun shades, which was an unexpected nice touch. They will be rerunning four additional Reading coach road numbers shortly. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] R2R P85 Coaches! Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 11:22:51 -0500 Own Thorne writes: > What a shame! I guess that means those of us who like to buy, build, > repaint, kitbash, and collect kits have not been voting often enough > with our wallets. I have been less than satisfied with foreign assembled > HO cars I have examined lately. Sloppy glue and/or paint work is often > evident even before removal from the box. Most people I know who run > trains regularly prefer metal grabs and steps for durabilty - much more > difficult to retrofit an already built model than on a kit version. Then > try to match the paint! Also, running gear usually needs work and cars > almost always require added weight; often defeating any advantage to me > of pre-assembly. I understand that the I-M and Red Caboose investors > make a higher profit margin on R-T-R equipment but PLEASE offer models > either way for those of us who still build. . Agree with you on paint, etc. But also how about the nuisance of replacing those plastic land fill,otherwise known as provided couplers? Especially if the coupler pocket is glued on. You are also correct about not voting enough with the wallet. But there is another big factor. Manufacturers who want kit parts build in China are at the back of the line. China wants labor value added and Chinese manufacturers give priority to assembled goods for that reason and hard sell anyone looking for kit parts to assemble them. So the manufacturers have to vote with the wallet to get suppliers by paying for assembly. Given the dearth of kit sales in the last few years, they opt for that assembly. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 12:32:49 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 12:33:15 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] R2R P85 Coaches! From: Jerry Britton Resent-From: Jerry Britton On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 12:22 PM, Bob Zoeller wrote: > Agree with you on paint, etc. But also how about the nuisance of > replacing > those plastic land fill,otherwise known as provided couplers? > Especially if > the coupler pocket is glued on. All InterMountain assembled cars come with Kadee #5's installed. Or are you putting horn hook couplers on yours? ;-) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http:/Opennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ray Breyer" Subject: RE: [PRR] R2R P85 Coaches! Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 11:46:15 -0700 Jerry, What about us trying to use Kadee #58's? Frankly, I loathe the fact that all the new RTR cars come with their coupler pockets glued on. I have to use an ACC debonder to remove them, and even then it's a pain, and I usually break something. Whatever happened to screw-on coupler pockets? Ray Breyer -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Jerry Britton Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 9:33 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] R2R P85 Coaches! > Agree with you on paint, etc. But also how about the nuisance of replacing > those plastic land fill,otherwise known as provided couplers? Especially if the coupler pocket is glued on. All InterMountain assembled cars come with Kadee #5's installed. Or are you putting horn hook couplers on yours? ;-) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Future of PRRT&HS (was): PRR Modeling and the "under 40 Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 12:51:12 -0400 Dave said> " I wonder where the PRRT&HS will be in 10 years. Will it be a much smaller group?" So wonder where it will be also. What ideas do we have to keep it from getting smaller and hopefully growing? Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] R2R P85 Coaches! Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 12:56:25 -0400 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C35C3B.AC152A80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Screwing on takes time, Also the screws probably cost more than the glue! Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: Ray Breyer [mailto:rbreyer@cesinfo.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 2:46 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] R2R P85 Coaches! Jerry, What about us trying to use Kadee #58's? Frankly, I loathe the fact that all the new RTR cars come with their coupler pockets glued on. I have to use an ACC debonder to remove them, and even then it's a pain, and I usually break something. Whatever happened to screw-on coupler pockets? Ray Breyer -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Jerry Britton Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 9:33 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] R2R P85 Coaches! > Agree with you on paint, etc. But also how about the nuisance of replacing > those plastic land fill,otherwise known as provided couplers? Especially if the coupler pocket is glued on. All InterMountain assembled cars come with Kadee #5's installed. Or are you putting horn hook couplers on yours? ;-) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C35C3B.AC152A80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [PRR] R2R P85 Coaches!

Screwing on takes time,  Also the screws = probably cost more than the glue!


Chris Chany

-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Breyer [mailto:rbreyer@cesinfo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 2:46 PM
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: RE: [PRR] R2R P85 Coaches!


Jerry,

What about us trying to use Kadee #58's?  = Frankly, I loathe the fact that
all the new RTR cars come with their coupler pockets = glued on.  I have to
use an ACC debonder to remove them, and even then = it's a pain, and I usually
break something.

Whatever happened to screw-on coupler pockets?

Ray Breyer

-----Original Message-----
From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On = Behalf Of Jerry
Britton
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: [PRR] R2R P85 Coaches!

> Agree with you on paint, etc.  But also how = about the nuisance of
replacing
> those plastic land fill,otherwise known as = provided couplers?  Especially
if the coupler pocket is glued on.

All InterMountain assembled cars come with Kadee #5's = installed.

Or are you putting horn hook couplers on yours?  = ;-)
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton


---------------------------------------------------------------= --------
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C35C3B.AC152A80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Future of PRRT&HS (was): PRR Modeling and the "under Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 13:02:01 -0400 Maybe we should talk to the guys from the NYO&W society. They seem to be very active and their railroad went belly up 10 years before ours. Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: Al Buchan [mailto:abbuchan1@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:51 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: RE: [PRR] Future of PRRT&HS (was): PRR Modeling and the "under 40 group" Dave said> " I wonder where the PRRT&HS will be in 10 years. Will it be a much smaller group?" So wonder where it will be also. What ideas do we have to keep it from getting smaller and hopefully growing? Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 13:02:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Future of PRRT&HS (was): PRR Modeling and the "under 40 From: Jerry Britton On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 12:51 PM, Al Buchan wrote: > Dave said> " I wonder where the PRRT&HS will be in 10 years. Will it be > a much smaller group?" > > So wonder where it will be also. > > What ideas do we have to keep it from getting smaller and hopefully > growing? Al: I think you're on the right track. The Society -- with respect to the older members who think otherwise -- must cater to the modelers. Twenty years from now most of the ex-PRR employees will be gone. Prospective members will be historians (very few) and modelers. The Pennsy may gain momentum in the modeling field. Why? Well, a high percentage of modelers model current roads. They will always change. Those that want to model the days of steam will look to the historic roads that used a lot of steam. PRR, I believe, will be near the top. So how do we cater to modelers and attract more? I think the new modeling enewsletter is a great start. Just make sure you have backups of everything on CD-ROM (in the event of server failure) and keep all issues accessible at all times (don't skimp on disk space). My suggestion earlier of putting out Society prospectus materials at PRR layout open houses ought to help. Now that we have a "modeling committee", I wonder if we could develop a rapport with manufacturers to "certify" their models. Taken a step further, if a model is certified by the PRRT&HS, might we get them to include a PRRT&HS mini-brochure inside the model box? Would probably be difficult to arrange, but it's a thought. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Bruce" Subject: Fw: [PRR] Model railroad thoughts and questions Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 10:24:40 -0700 Pressed "Reply" instead of "Reply All", meant it for everyone. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bruce" To: "Jerry Britton" Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 8:11 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Model railroad thoughts and questions > I would simply offer a note of caution here -- in my late teens during > PRR/PC years I rode the NEC back and forth to college, from Washington to > either Boston or Springfield, depending on when bus connections were better. > You can well imagine what I wanted to model. > > There are several things that I came up against in this. Recent years have > brought some models that would make the chances better -- when I first > thought of this scheme, not even S.Soho had come along with > Congressional/Senator cars, for instance, and the choice in GG1s was Penn > Line or Rivarossi -- but you will need: > > 1 set each (at least) of such trains as the Congressional, Senator, > Patriot, Keystone, Silver Meteor, other SAL trains, Champions, Crescent, C&O > trains, Broadway, General, Manhattan Limited, Duquesne, etc. etc. etc. etc. > etc. etc. etc. > > A very large roster of (depending on era) GG1s, P5as, E44s, > miscellaneous other electrics, MU cars, etc., plus diesels or steam > > A very large roster of (depending on era) P70s or other coaches and > other heavyweight cars, including rebuilt diners, etc. etc. > > In addition to the "usual suspect" freight cars, a lot of the > distinctive cars that you saw on the NEC, such as the "Sole Leather Line" > WAG box cars, Southern Railway unique modern box cars, PRR freight car > designs, etc. > > Now, in the 35 or so years since I envisioned doing this, there are now > brass passenger cars, resin freight cars, brass electric locos, the Broadway > Limited GG1, Bowser caboses and other freight cars, etc., that would make > this at least much more theoretically do-able, as might a C/MRI or other > form of assisted operation. But even assuming the money were available to > get the equipment (you would presumably have to budget for at least one or > two full sets of brass name trains a year to begin to finish this in a > lifetime) teh question is time, effort, the burnout factor, etc. And what > if you have a career that means you'd have to move several times? And if > you figured the staging needs of the hidden "Sunnyside yard" at the ends of > the layout, how much space would this REALLY take up? And what if, like > Tony Koester, you suddenly decided you'd maybe like to try something else, > like narrow gauge? > > I ran up against all these issues (still have a Soho Congressional and > Senator set in boxes, mostly painted) and wound up deciding to rethink my > approach to the hobby -- have never regretted it, even though I still get > the occasional brass FL9 or E44! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Britton" > To: > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 7:55 AM > Subject: Re: [PRR] Model railroad thoughts and questions > > > > On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 10:39 AM, ndbprr@att.net wrote: > > > > > the > > > idea forming is to run the railroad diagonaly across the basement from > > > one > > > corner to the other and have either a dogbone or a round and round > > > with the > > > staging behind the visible portion in the point of the triangle it > > > creates. > > > > And while operated as a point-to-point layout, you'd also have the easy > > option of continuous running for open houses...or to recirculate common > > trains, such as clockers. > > > > You also might consider a point on the system where a flyover or > > interchange occurs, such as MORRIS, with its connection tot he Trenton > > Cut-Off (http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Prr/Maps/Itlk/morris.gif). > > This would make dispatching much more challenging as you would be > > interspersing freight traffic with passenger traffic. The Trenton > > Cut-Off could just be a staging yard stacked over one of the other > > yards. > > > > Another candidate would be SHORE, where the New Jersey traffic breaks > > off the corridor. You could model all of the Atlantic City specials! > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Future of PRRT&HS (was): PRR Modeling and the "under 40 Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 13:48:42 -0400 The more people who are exposed to PRR material, the more people will want to join. How about seeing if Model Railroader & other sites would want to link to the Keystone Modeler? Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Buchan" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:51 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] Future of PRRT&HS (was): PRR Modeling and the "under 40 group" > Dave said> " I wonder where the PRRT&HS will be in 10 years. Will it be > a much smaller group?" > > So wonder where it will be also. > > What ideas do we have to keep it from getting smaller and hopefully > growing? > > Al > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Future of PRRT&HS (was): PRR Modeling and the "under 40 Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 18:09:17 +0000 Now that we have a "modeling committee", I wonder if we could develop a > rapport with manufacturers to "certify" their models. Taken a step > furt