Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 08:16:03 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers 4-4-2 Prewar Pullman Model Chris wrote >I was at my local hobby shop this past weekend struggling with whether or >not to purchase the Walthers 4-4-2 sleeper. Since Walthers has obviously made this model in a skirted version, and since they describe the PRR paint scheme they use as the "Late Scheme" has anyone discovered whether Walthers intends to do an "Early Scheme" of the Pennsy 4-4-2 with the FOM colors and the side skirts? If not I guess I'll have to tackle a conversion on the UP version of the model.... Chris, I know that you are not the first to ask this question and that Walthers is aware of the potential. Bill Wischer of Walthers is the guy to contact to make your desires known. They may be trying to size up how many units they can sell, or they may just not have the capacity yet (to busy turning out those UP cars), or they may not have the data they need (although I'm pretty sure one of our listers has offered it to them) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Metra update Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 13:38:27 +0000 The Metra bridge that burned last weekend is back in service one day earlier than anticipated. They had already installed a concrete pier anticipating replacement laster in the year so it was just a case of removing the debris and installing the new bridge (130' long divided about 1/3 and 2/3 in length over the pier). IC/CN has not done anything with their 4 tracks yet and they remain out of service. Woodcrest yard in Homewood Illinois is as dead as it gets. It appears most traffic is bypassing the area excpet for that headed for the IHB or GTW. It is speculation on my part but they may have stayed out of the way while Metra got the commuter line back up and will now get started. The cost to Metar was in excess of $1,000,000. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] DS-4-4-660 vs. DS-4-4-750 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 11:58:25 -0400 List dudes, I was flipping the The Pennsy Diesel Years, A-6 to EF-36 and was cheking engine rosters. Mentioned and rosterized are the DS-4-4-660 and DS-4-4-750. Was there any major difference besides horsepower, tractive effort, etc. Were the bodies the same? If so, this would be good to do a repaint of a Stewart engine. 4 such engines were based out of York. Thanks for anybodies help. -John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 15:39:17 -0400 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers 4-4-2 Prewar Pullman Model Chris, Andy,Bruce and all... Bruce Replies with... > Chris, I know that you are not the first to ask this question and that Walthers is aware of the potential. Bill Wischer of Walthers is the guy to contact to make your desires known. They may be trying to size up how many units they can sell, or they may just not have the capacity yet (to busy turning out those UP cars), or they may not have the data they need (although I'm pretty sure one of our listers has offered it to them) > > Happy Rails< ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 15:47:41 -0400 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] OOPPPPSS... Walthers 4-4-2 Prewar Pullman Model Chris, Andy,Bruce and all... Bruce Replies with... > Chris, I know that you are not the first to ask this question and that Walthers is aware of the potential. Bill Wischer of Walthers is the guy to contact to make your desires known. They may be trying to size up how many units they can sell, or they may just not have the capacity yet (to busy turning out those UP cars), or they may not have the data they need (although I'm pretty sure one of our listers has offered it to them) > > Happy Rails< What I had intended on saying before I hit the send button was... If you call Bill he will think that I have put you up to it and in this case I would love to take credit for it but it was Bruce's idea. Boyh Bruce and I have put the bug in Bill's ear at Cocoa Beach and he just gave us a chuckle which means he will or he has already thought of that... I would believe that you will see this in FOM but it may take a bit of time as they don't have the artwork in China for the FOM, but they do have the drawings, I gave them a set. So if you can wait and it may very well be a while, then hold off, but if you are like me I am going to start with an undecorated and work from that. My ear doesn't allow for many if any actually, but I like it... and I model to please me. Just might look great leading CARYL around the layout. 3^) Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harry Fitch" Subject: [PRR] Items for sale - HO scale only. Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 16:59:26 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C33FF2.213EB8A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear List Members: In accordance to list rules pertaining to the first day of the month, I am making items available for sale to list members. I have a number of items that I am thinning from the herd. They include both brass and non-brass items. I am NOT a dealer these are from my own collection. Kato SD45 (DCC equipped, PRR EF36, #6200) 1 of 2 Kato SD45 (DCC equipped, PRR EF36, #6200) 2 of 2 Gem-Olympia Brass PRR F3c 2-6-0 Gem-Olympia Brass PRR E6s 4-4-2 Akane Brass C&O H-8, 2-6-6-6 NJCB-Daiyoung Brass C&O T-1, 2-10-4 PFM-Atlas Brass C&O H-6, 2-6-6-2 Please E-mail me OFF LIST for details. Thanks, Harry prrk4s@msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C33FF2.213EB8A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear List Members:
 
In accordance to list rules pertaining to the = first day=20 of the month, I am making items available for sale to list=20 members.
I have a number of items that I am thinning = from the=20 herd.  They include both brass and non-brass=20 items.
I am NOT a dealer these are from my own=20 collection.
 
Kato SD45 (DCC equipped, PRR EF36, #6200) 1 = of=20 2
Kato SD45 (DCC equipped, PRR EF36, #6200) 2 of 2
Gem-Olympia = Brass PRR=20 F3c 2-6-0
Gem-Olympia Brass PRR E6s 4-4-2
Akane Brass C&O H-8, = 2-6-6-6
NJCB-Daiyoung Brass C&O T-1, 2-10-4
PFM-Atlas Brass = C&O=20 H-6, 2-6-6-2
 
Please E-mail me OFF LIST for=20 details.
 
Thanks,
 
Harry
 
prrk4s@msn.com=20
------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C33FF2.213EB8A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 22:27:18 -0400 From: Owen Thorne Subject: Re: [PRR] Re:BLI M1a/b Group- I agree with Eric on this point - it never hurts to ask. If model manufacturers want to sell more products then they first need to know what we will buy. Molded on details must be removed before redetailing and paintjobs are often sacrificed in the effort. If the piping in question were either molded oversized and attached as separate parts or left off entirely, then each customer can choose his or her own level of detail without having to scrape and sand off the molded on details such as have haunted steam locomotive detailers throughout plastic scale modeling history. I doubt either option would affect the overall cost of tooling greatly and I believe that many more modelers would invest if major surgery could be avoided on a brand-new several-hundred-dollar purchase. Along a similar line of discussion - while I admire Bowser's efforts at building and marketing PRR prototypes, I have always been frustrated by the molded-on detailing of the plastic cabins and freight cars they offer. It is encouraging to read that the new N8 will not have those shortcomings and I hope it proves a success for Bowser. I agree with some earlier comments that a perfect paint and lettering job would be expected on a $30.00 cabin car model. Any news on optional trainphone antenna or whether the detailing will be as-built or modernized? Thanks to all those who have helped the manufacturers with accuracy on these and so many other fine models. Owen Thorne, PRRTHS#2461 Eric Lauterbach wrote: > > I am not really complaining. I am very happy that BLI is making this > engine, as it is my favorite Pennsy engine. I also think it is a pretty > good deal, especially considering it has sound and what looks to be an > awesome tender. I just wish that they would give us a few more separate > details above the running boards. Their Hudson even has more separate > details above the running boards. I am still getting one, this hasn't put > me off. I will probably end up with two. I just figure that it could never > hurt to ask. Plus, BLI seems pretty responsive to customer feed back. > Eric > > --- Eric Lauterbach > --- ealauterbach@earthlink.net > --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. -------------------------------------: Re------------------------------ For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 23:27:56 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] DS-4-4-660 vs. DS-4-4-750 --part1_10d.26d5283c.2c33ab3c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, The DS 4-4-750 is closer in body style to the DS 4-4-1000 than the DS 4-4-660. The 750 has the same body vent configuration as the 1000 and the same turbo charge bulge. However and I don't have my drawing in front of me, I think the 750 is the same length as the 660 which is shorter than the 1000. Also, the 660 is a cast frame and I think the 750 is either a fabricated frame or combination of cast and fabricated. Check your Dad's copy of Pennsy Power II pages 208 and 209. Check Stewart Hobbies website for the differences among the Baldwin switchers which Steve has done so far www.stewarthobbies.com from the home page select the VO 660 and then look for the comparison drawings link. Rich Orr --part1_10d.26d5283c.2c33ab3c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John,

The DS 4-4-750 is closer in body style to the DS 4-4-1000 than the DS 4-4-66= 0.  The 750 has the same body vent configuration as the 1000 and the sa= me turbo charge bulge.  However and I don't have my drawing in front of= me, I think the 750 is the same length as the 660 which is shorter than the= 1000.  Also, the 660 is a cast frame and I think the 750 is either a f= abricated frame or combination of cast and fabricated.  Check your Dad'= s copy of Pennsy Power II pages 208 and 209.

Check Stewart Hobbies website for the differences among the Baldwin switcher= s which Steve has done so far   www.stewarthobbies.com  from the home page select the VO 660 and t= hen look for the comparison drawings link.

Rich Orr --part1_10d.26d5283c.2c33ab3c_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Just when you thought you have seen everything! Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:32:23 -0400 Hi All, I give you the following photo. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/F22_flat.jpg I never thought I would see a F22 and Shay in the same photo! Enjoy! Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bbreynolds@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:54:22 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Just when you thought you have seen everything! In a message dated 7/2/2003 8:39:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, billlane@comcast.net writes: > Is that shot from the book The Railroad that Lighted Southern California? Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ------- ra----------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:54:22 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Just when you thought you have seen everything! --part1_f4.2e45673e.2c34d8be_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/2/2003 8:39:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, billlane@comcast.net writes: > Is that shot from the book The Railroad that Lighted Southern California? Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA --part1_f4.2e45673e.2c34d8be_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 7/2/20= 03 8:39:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, billlane@comcast.net writes:


http://mywebpages.comcast.n= et/billlane/F22_flat.jpg

Is that shot from the book The Railroad that Lighted Southern Califor= nia?

Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA --part1_f4.2e45673e.2c34d8be_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:32:23 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Just when you thought you have seen everything! Hi All, I give you the following photo. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/F22_flat.jpg I never thought I would see a F22 and Shay in the same photo! Enjoy! Bill ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Shith g Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 22:38:50 -0400 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI Class A --------------080001050607060202030901 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eric: Did you really mean to say this is worse than a Bachmann in detail, or did you mean the Life-Like Heritage? That's a pretty big gap in my opinion (with the Heritage far in the lead beyond the Bachmann)... Jeff Eric Lauterbach wrote: > I just got my BLI Class A and thought I would give a short review on > the overall qualities of the engine, since BLI is releasing so many > Pennsy engines in the near future. 1218 used to come through Atlanta > during the days of the NS steam program, which caused this Pennsy fan > to become a big fan of her. She appears to be very accurate in > dimensions and paint scheme. They did a very good job in getting the > red/orange right for the windows. She runs very well and pulls 18 > hoppers on my layout with no problems what so ever. No derailments and > no issues with getting electricity on switches or any of the other > usual problems we sometimes see in plastic steam. The sound is > excellent and captures the whistle very well. The sound starts up > nicely, but is a little too loud which is easily fixed. > As far as her detail level goes and construction, I do have a few > issues. I understand that not every pipe can be a separate detail, but > there is a major pipe just behind the front sand dome. The pipe is > molded in and takes away from the over all appearance. The pipe is not > molded in on the Life-Like Y3. A similar pipe was a separate detail on > the Hudson. Also, I was disappointed in the use of plastic for the > hand rails, particularly on the pilot. It makes me wonder if these > parts can handle the general wear and tear. > Over all, I would say this engine comes in a little behind the > Bachmann engine in detail. However, the sound and generally good > running qualities of this engine, make her a pretty good deal at > around $400. I would give her a letter grade of B+. > Eric > > > --- Eric Lauterbach > --- ealauterbach@earthlink.net > --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. --------------080001050607060202030901 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eric:

Did you really mean to say this is worse than a Bachmann in detail, or did you mean the Life-Like Heritage?  That's a pretty big gap in my opinion (with the Heritage far in the lead beyond the Bachmann)...

Jeff

Eric Lauterbach wrote:

I just got my BLI Class A and thought I would give a short review on the overall qualities of the engine, since BLI is releasing so many Pennsy engines in the near future. 1218 used to come through Atlanta during the days of the NS steam program, which caused this Pennsy fan to become a big fan of her. She appears to be very accurate in dimensions and paint scheme. They did a very good job in getting the red/orange right for the windows. She runs very well and pulls 18 hoppers on my layout with no problems what so ever. No derailments and no issues with getting electricity on switches or any of the other usual problems we sometimes see in plastic steam. The sound is excellent and captures the whistle very well. The sound starts up nicely, but is a little too loud which is easily fixed.
As far as her detail level goes and construction, I do have a few issues. I understand that not every pipe can be a separate detail, but there is a major pipe just behind the front sand dome. The pipe is molded in and takes away from the over all appearance. The pipe is not molded in on the Life-Like Y3. A similar pipe was a separate detail on the Hudson. Also, I was disappointed in the use of plastic for the hand rails, particularly on the pilot.  It makes me wonder if these parts can handle the general wear and tear.
Over all, I would say this engine comes in a little behind the Bachmann engine in detail. However, the sound and generally good running qualities of this engine, make her a pretty good deal at around $400.  I would give her a letter grade of B+.
Eric
 
 
--- Eric Lauterbach
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
 

----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

--------------080001050607060202030901-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 21:31:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] MP229 Help List, Need to know something from a circa 1955ish MP-229. Was B6sb 3233 still assigned to the Pgh Div? If no, then where? Also, any B6sb's still rostered in Columbus? If so, what #'s?.....Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 20:22:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Sawicki Subject: [PRR] PRR structure colors --0-2084837897-1057461733=:73263 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii List- can anybody tell me the names of the PRR structure colors each used on the J Tower in Strasburg and the New Freedom Station?? J tower is at http://prr.railfan.net/photos/teabow/StrasburgRR_JTower_front34_RayThibaut.jpg from Rob's site New Freedom Station is at http://prrths-ncc.pennsyrr.com/ from the PRRT&HS NC chapter. They appear different. There was some discussion last week referring to the light and dark structure colors. Thanks. Chris Sawicki --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! --0-2084837897-1057461733=:73263 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
List- can anybody tell me the names of the PRR structure colors each used on the J Tower in Strasburg and the New Freedom Station??
 
 
New Freedom Station is at  http://prrths-ncc.pennsyrr.com/ from the PRRT&HS NC chapter.
 
They appear different. There was some discussion last week referring to the light and dark structure colors. Thanks. Chris Sawicki

Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! --0-2084837897-1057461733=:73263-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 20:45:12 -0700 Subject: [PRR] Pennsy J or Lemo Tower design Hi list members, List member Doug Nelson recently noticed (and pointed out to me) the following item... A company doing business as Model Tech Studios is selling a kit for a "Ornate Signal tower inspired by the Pennsy J or Lemo Tower design". It is available in both N and HO scales. See URL below. http://mts.inline.net/merchant.ihtml?id=1&step=2= Any feedback from anyone out there? Quality? How close is this to Lemo? Is the company good to deal with? Etc. - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Chris Sawicki Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 20:22:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR structure colors List- can anybody tell me the names of the PRR structure colors each used on the J Tower in Strasburg and the New Freedom Station?? J tower is at http://prr.railfan.net/photos/teabow/StrasburgRR_JTower_front34_RayThibaut.jpg from Rob's site New Freedom Station is at http://prrths-ncc.pennsyrr.com/ from the PRRT&HS NC chapter. They appear different. There was some discussion last week referring to the light and dark structure colors. Thanks. Chris Sawicki --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Inkjet cartridges up to 80% off. HP, Epson, Lexmark--we have your brand. Free shipping on every order to the U.S. and Canada! Excellent service. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/QWB0QC/.eUGAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR structure colors Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 06:33:15 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C34388.7B0B0980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "J" tower at Strasburg appears to be painted: "Light Building Paint" with "Dark Building Paint" trim, with Maroon sash. The roof is an oxide red and the block station sign is "Toludine Red" with what appears to be "Synthetic Buff Lettering Color Enamel," although it could be imitation gold leaf - I can't discern from the photo and forget from actually looking at it. Al ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C34388.7B0B0980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
"J" tower at = Strasburg=20 appears to be painted:
 
"Light Building = Paint" with=20 "Dark Building Paint" trim, with Maroon sash. The roof is an oxide red = and the=20 block station sign is "Toludine Red" with what appears to be "Synthetic = Buff=20 Lettering Color Enamel," although it could be imitation gold leaf - I = can't=20 discern from the photo and forget from actually looking at=20 it.
 
Al
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C34388.7B0B0980-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 06:33:15 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] RE: [PRR] PRR structure colors "J" tower at Strasburg appears to be painted: "Light Building Paint" with "Dark Building Paint" trim, with Maroon sash. The roof is an oxide red and the block station sign is "Toludine Red" with what appears to be "Synthetic Buff Lettering Color Enamel," although it could be imitation gold leaf - I can't discern from the photo and forget from actually looking at it. Al [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Save up to 80% on top-quality inkjet cartridges and get your order fast! FREE shipping on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. Shop at Myinks.com! http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/v2G7ND/KfUGAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "parkvarieties" Subject: [PRR] New R50B Paint Schemes Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 08:00:57 -0400 I notice that Walthers has announced three new paint schemes for the R50B which they call 1) 1939 paint scheme; 2) 1943-44 Tuscan paint scheme; 3) 1954 paint scheme no REA logo. Can those of you working with Walthers elaborate on the first two versions - is 1939 scheme FOM lettering?? Frank Brua ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] B6sb 3233 Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 08:01:34 -0400 Gary & List, According 4-1-55 MP 255 B6sb was assigned to the Conemaugh division. Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 05:40:44 -0700 From: Steven B Subject: [PRR] Re: MP229 Help "Gary Mittner" wrote: > PRR-Talk Digest - Sunday, July 6, 2003 > > List, > > Need to know something from a circa 1955ish MP-229. Was B6sb 3233 > still assigned to the Pgh Div? If no, then where? Also, any B6sb's still > rostered in Columbus? If so, what #'s?.....Thanks, Gary I get the digest version of the list, so this may be repeating another post. From the 1955 M.P. 229: B6sb 3233 was not in Pittsburgh. It was one of two in that class assigned to the Conemaugh Division, the other was 6361. Columbus had five B6sb class locomotives assigned: 1345, 4001, 4029, 4179 and 6391. Steve Beals Los Angeles ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 09:22:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: MP229 Help Steve, Bill, List, Thanks for the info on the B6sb numbers. All confirm with each others replys. I also had an email of list that lists #3233 as later being assigned to the Pgh Region in a 1956 MP229. This was my hunch. As for the Colmbus assigned B6sb's. One of these locos along with the 3233 is the candidate for my 1:29th B6sb. I am leaning towards a Columbus assigned loco as it will display better/more correctly with my "Buckeye" Region N6b. The latest on the B6sb, minus the decals: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/Im001013.jpg .....Thanks again, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 09:45:09 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy J or Lemo Tower design From: Jerry Britton On 7/5/03 11:45 PM, "Claus Schlund" wrote: > List member Doug Nelson recently noticed (and pointed out to > me) the following item... > > A company doing business as Model Tech Studios > is selling a kit for a "Ornate Signal tower inspired by > the Pennsy J or Lemo Tower design". > > It is available in both N and HO scales. > See URL below. > > http://mts.inline.net/merchant.ihtml?id=1&step=2= > > Any feedback from anyone out there? > Quality? How close is this to Lemo? > Is the company good to deal with? Etc. It only remotely resembles LEMO. I grew up near LEMO and consider it, quite frankly, an insult that they call this tower LEMO. The first floor isn't detailed right, the windows aren't right, and the cupola is way oversized. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PE FroRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] PRR structure colors Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 13:10:04 -0400 New Freedom station was painted differently than "J" tower altogether. When Bill Knepper, the late head-supervisor for the New Freedom Station Project, had the station painted they made an educated guess as 5to how the colors were in the early 1900's. This doesn't mean that they are correct. That is why the colors are so different. Hope this helps any. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] box car door latch Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 16:03:01 -0400 Hi All, Does anyone have a good detail photo of this door latch assembled on a car, preferably a prototype? This is a Grandt Line On3 plastic sprue that I had cast into brass. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/doorlatch.jpg I am only interested in the parts that are for the door latch. Perhaps you could identify the other parts that appear to be hinges of some kind. Please reply to billlane@comcast.net Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR structure colors Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 20:14:38 -0400 Re: New Freedom station was painted differently than "J" tower altogether. The pictures of the New Freedom station certainly substantiate this statement. From the pictures it appears the station has been painted "Buff" color. This is not an unusual station color as I have photographic evidence of its use on the Millersburg freight station. When I last visited that location in August 1994, it certainly appeared to me that it was not the "Light Building Paint" color associated with so many PRR buildings. Even though it had not been painted in almost 34 years the color was a lot brighter and more yellow than the standard color. And sure enough I found a stenciled plaque on the side of the building which read, PAINTED-10-60 2-C-BUFF 1-C-DK.STD.TRIM M.W. DEPT. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 19:31:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Philip Taylor Subject: [PRR] TT/TO Pennsy Mainline in 50's Is there a Pennsy mainline from the 1950s that was still using timetable/train orders? Thanks, Philip Tayor ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 04:25:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Sawicki Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR structure colors --0-848424296-1057577147=:7464 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Al & John- thanks for your explanations. Al Buchan wrote:Re: New Freedom station was painted differently than "J" tower altogether. The pictures of the New Freedom station certainly substantiate this statement. From the pictures it appears the station has been painted "Buff" color. This is not an unusual station color as I have photographic evidence of its use on the Millersburg freight station. When I last visited that location in August 1994, it certainly appeared to me that it was not the "Light Building Paint" color associated with so many PRR buildings. Even though it had not been painted in almost 34 years the color was a lot brighter and more yellow than the standard color. And sure enough I found a stenciled plaque on the side of the building which read, PAINTED-10-60 2-C-BUFF 1-C-DK.STD.TRIM M.W. DEPT. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! --0-848424296-1057577147=:7464 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Al & John- thanks for your explanations.

Al Buchan <abbuchan1@comcast.net> wrote:
Re: New Freedom station was painted differently than "J" tower
altogether.

The pictures of the New Freedom station certainly substantiate this
statement. From the pictures it appears the station has been painted
"Buff" color. This is not an unusual station color as I have
photographic evidence of its use on the Millersburg freight station.
When I last visited that location in August 1994, it certainly appeared
to me that it was not the "Light Building Paint" color associated with
so many PRR buildings. Even though it had not been painted in almost 34
years the color was a lot brighter and more yellow than the standard
color. And sure enough I found a stenciled plaque on the side of the
building which read,

PAINTED-10-60
2-C-BUFF
1-C-DK.STD.TRIM

M.W. DEPT.



Al



-----------------------------------------------------------------------
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! --0-848424296-1057577147=:7464-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] TT/TO Pennsy Mainline in 50's Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:24:05 -0400 The PRR had "Mainlines" and "Branch lines" both of which had "Main Track." The definition of "Main Track" is "A designated track upon which trains are operated by time-table, train order or both or the use of which is governed by block signals." I really don't believe there was any "Mainline" ca. 1950s that was using a TTTO only method of operation. Most all "Mainline" track at that time operated using block signals, usually ABS 251 or 261 territory. Branch line "Main Track" were typically MBS territories although there were branches with ABS operations. However, there has recently been some discussion that the PRR perhaps still had some pure TTTO operations on some of its branchlines, or segments thereof. Having said that TTTO was not the Mainline method of operation, timetables and train orders continued to be used. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 07:52:53 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] New R50B Paint Schemes Frank sez: >I notice that Walthers has announced three new paint schemes for the >R50B which they call Based on the dates, here is what I beleive these schemes are: >1) 1939 paint scheme; This is not FOM but is lettered in Futura . This scheme dates from 7-13-1939 to 6-13-1941 and has a car cement roof, light Tuscan Red body, Olive trucks, Olive underbody equipment, Black underframe, Buff lettering with no edging, Railway Express Agency lettering, 5 5/8" spacing of numerals, wide spacing of all lettering, no end numbers. >2) 1943-44 Tuscan paint scheme; This scheme dates from 9-29-1943 to 9-7-1944 and consists of light Tuscan Red body, Black roof, Black trucks, Tuscan Red underbody equipment, Tuscan Red underframe, Block style lettering with round P and S, Buff lettering with no edging, Railway Express Agency lettering, 5 5/8" spacing of numerals, wide spacing of all lettering, no end numbers. >3) 1954 paint scheme no REA logo. IIRC, this is the standard postwar scheme without REA lettering Thanks for the heads up that these are the next release Frank! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:29:12 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: [PRR] 1965 public timetable question Morning y'all, I'm trying to figure out a troop movement that occurred on July 15 1965, departing New York Penn Station, headed for boot camp in Great Lakes, Ill in two cars which had been tacked on to the rear of a regularly scheduled train which departed around 5:30 PM. What train was this? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] BLI GG1 Ad in MR Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 17:56:35 +0000 This is not a criticism per se of their G but the number is for one that didn't have the drop coupler pilot yet the pilot is the drop coupler variety like all the other versions. It needs to be renumbered between 4849 and 4939 to be correct. Didn't have any idea how to pass this on to BLI. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:28:44 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI GG1 Ad in MR Norm says: >This is not a criticism per se of their G but the number is for one that >didn't >have the drop coupler pilot yet the pilot is the drop coupler variety like >all >the other versions. It needs to be renumbered between 4849 and 4939 to be >correct. Didn't have any idea how to pass this on to BLI. Well, It WOULD be a criticism if the released model was numbered 4805 and a perfectly VALID criticism too...however, when the numbers for reservations were released, and they listed 4805, I pointed out the error in their ways, as did a number of others...and if you look at the web page, they are now listing #4905 for thta model and appropriate nubmers for all of the others. BLI seems to be one of those companies that is responsive to input, at least when the fixes are doable. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 15:32:39 -0500 Subject: [PRR] 1965 troop movement From: Frederick Ripley Bruce, RE your question about a departure from Penn Station around 5:30 PM, July 1965: the Chicago train with the departure closest to this is No. 49, the "General", at 5:05 PM. Seems an unlikely train for troop movements, but the more workaday trains departed much earlier/later: the "Manhattan Limited" at 1:30, the "Pennsylvania" Limited" at 9:40. Hope this helps, Fred R. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mdimaio@ids.net Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:12:27 -0400 Subject: [PRR] PRR Middle Division for MSTS I am responding to this note a little late :-) The Middle Division was relased for better or worse on 10 June 2003. It can be downloaded at http://www.avsim.com. Go to the file Library, go to MSTS adventures, and search the term Middle. You will come up with 10 files. Download the manual first to see what you might be getting yourself into because the download is massive. Alternative meothods of obtaining the material are listed om the manual. It includes all PRR locos, freight cars, and passanger cars used in the activities. NYC material has to be obtained separately. Sorry for the slight delay because I said the material would be available on 31 March 2002. Please read the manual and the install directions before attempting an install. To use you must own MSTS. Well the terrain will be available later this week. On 31 Mar 2002 at 7:10, Charles Whary wrote: > Mike, > > I just recently obtained a copy of the Microsoft's Train Simulator and I'm > in total awl with it. If you and your fellow works get this project > accomplished please let me know I would be interested in obtaining o copy. > Thanks > > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Michael > DiMaio > Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 5:52 AM > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Big Pennsy project!!! > > > I am a fan of Microsoft's Train Simulator. A number of us have > decided to rebuild the PRR's mainline in PA virtually. There are > some going from Pittsburgh to Altoona, and others doing Philly to > Harrisburg. Atleast one person is attempting to revbuild the > mainline from NYC to Philly in this manner. The PRR line from DC > to Philly is in operation. I, for better or worse, have taken on the > route from Harrisburg to Altoona/ Tyrone. Using 3 dimensional > cartographical software and USGS topographical maps I have just > finished recreating in 3 dimensions all the topography of the main > line from Steelton/Harrisburg to Tyrone/Altoona. The task of laying > track or setting up a marker file which will tell me or others where to > place the trackage. To do this I will again rely on USCS maps and > overlays which show the trackage from the air. I have gone through > what Jerry has available online as far as track maps go. If any one > has clear maps that are on-line and easy to use, accesss to them > would be appreciated. If any one has familiarity with MSTS and or > its route editor, I would sure like some help in laying track. I will be > uploading the Allegeny Mountains and all of the terrain from Altoona > to Harrisburg at http://www.train-sim.com in the middle of the week., > if any one is interested in downloading it. I am only concerned with > thwe path of the Broadway Limited so, for that reason, although > sidings will be provided, I do not plan to stray from the mainline. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:35:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Aerotrain, List, Anyone know of published Aerotrain Drawing(s)? Or, how well the Varney/Bowser Aerotrain Loco and Cars actually scale out? Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Aerotrain, Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:28:17 -0400 Gary, As far as I can recall, the Varney Aerotrain was an accurate scale model when it was issued. It lacked much detail as far as the trucks went, but Kemtron at one time issued investment castings for both the power truck and the single axle trucks on the cars. I assume Bowsdwer is using the same tooling for the bodies. Don't know what happened to the Kemtron masters.. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" To: Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 8:35 PM Subject: [PRR] Aerotrain, > List, > > Anyone know of published Aerotrain Drawing(s)? Or, how well the > Varney/Bowser Aerotrain Loco and Cars actually scale out? Thanks, Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work! > > PRR K4s Loco Pics: > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ > > PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > > and...... > > PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:01:09 -0400 Subject: [PRR] InterMountain N Scale 50' Box From: Jerry Britton FYI: A few months ago InterMountain ran a "not quite right -- but close" AAR 50' double door box car in N scale, Circle Keystone, with AUTOMOBILES on the side. It is quite an attractive car, actually. This month they are running the same car in a single door version, Shadow Keystone (no AUTOMOBILES). There are 12 road numbers. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:03:34 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Digitrax Signal System From: Jerry Britton FYI for those of you using Digitrax...their long-awaiting signalling system is set to ship in August. Details are not yet available via Digitrax web site, but I've received a dealer mailing on it. As soon as I digest it, I'll share the info. They specifically point out support for Pennsy position light signals!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" Subject: [PRR] NMRA Convention Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:05:33 +0100 Are any listers going to the NMRA convention next week? Patrick Grace www.prr.org.uk www.scanrailsoc.org.uk ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" Subject: [PRR] NMRA Convention Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:05:40 +0100 Are any listers going to the NMRA convention next week? Patrick Grace www.prr.org.uk www.scanrailsoc.org.uk ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Aerotrain, Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 13:07:40 +0000 I have no idea about drawings but the two Aerotrains do exist yet. One is in Green Bay at the National RR museum and I believe the other is in St. Louis at the National Transportation Museum. Nothing like a field trip for really acurate info. The one in Green Bay is the one that ran on the PRR. Norm Bell > List, > > Anyone know of published Aerotrain Drawing(s)? Or, how well the > Varney/Bowser Aerotrain Loco and Cars actually scale out? Thanks, Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work! > > PRR K4s Loco Pics: > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ > > PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > > and...... > > PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] 1965 troop movement Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:27:09 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_05BD_01C3452A.B97B14A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bruce: According to my CT 355-A form for Warsaw interlocking in Warsaw Indiana, = train No. 49, The Admiral, went through Warsaw at 5:36 am on July 16. = There was no mention of a special cars such as troop cars on this train = or any other train that day. That is not unusual since consist = information was really not part of operations.=20 At any rate, on July 16, train 49 was pulled by an E-7, No. 5859. Ted=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Frederick Ripley=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 3:32 PM Subject: [PRR] 1965 troop movement Bruce, RE your question about a departure from Penn Station around 5:30 PM, = July 1965: the Chicago train with the departure closest to this is No. 49, the "General", at 5:05 PM. Seems an unlikely train for troop = movements, but the more workaday trains departed much earlier/later: the "Manhattan Limited" at 1:30, the "Pennsylvania" Limited" at 9:40. Hope this helps, Fred R. = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_000_05BD_01C3452A.B97B14A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bruce:
 
According to my CT 355-A form for Warsaw interlocking in Warsaw = Indiana,=20 train No. 49, The Admiral, went through Warsaw at 5:36 am on July 16. = There was=20 no mention of a special cars such as troop cars on this train or any = other train=20 that day. That is not unusual since consist information was really not = part of=20 operations.
 
At any rate, on July 16, train 49 was pulled by an E-7, No. = 5859.
 
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: Frederick Ripley
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 = 3:32 PM
Subject: [PRR] 1965 troop = movement

Bruce,

RE your question about a departure from = Penn=20 Station around 5:30 PM, July
1965:  the Chicago train with the = departure closest to this is No. 49,
the "General", at 5:05 = PM.  Seems=20 an unlikely train for troop movements, but
the more workaday trains = departed much earlier/later: the "Manhattan
Limited" at 1:30, the=20 "Pennsylvania" Limited" at 9:40.

Hope this helps,

Fred=20 = R.


-----------------------------------------------------------= ------------
For=20 assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.
------=_NextPart_000_05BD_01C3452A.B97B14A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Chicago Chapter PRRT&HS meeting Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 14:01:19 +0000 The Chicago Chapter of the PRRT&HS will be meeting Saturday 7/26 at The Pullman Visitors Center in Pullman, Illinois. If you are going to be in the area anyone is welcome. We will meet at 1PM for a tour of the remaining Pullman factory buildings. This will be followed by a presentation on the Panhandle lines by Fred Ripley at 2PM. the meeting will last until about 5PM. Anyone who wants more information or directions can send me an email and I will provide you with further details. Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] NMRA Convention/National Train Show Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:05:06 -0400 For those planning to attend the NMRA Convention in Toronto, note that the latest issue of the NMRA Bulletin announced cancellation of the national train show. Too many vendors canceled due to SARS concerns to be able to put on a first class show. Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:36:48 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: { SPAM 1 }::[PRR] NMRA Convention/National Train Show >For those planning to attend the NMRA Convention in Toronto, note that the >latest issue of the NMRA Bulletin announced cancellation of the national >train show. Too many vendors canceled due to SARS concerns to be able to >put on a first class show. Hey Bill, This is old news, which is why it is in the Bulletin (last issue of "The Bulletin" BTW...it will have some new title next month). When National backed out, the Canadians (Canadiens) decided to go on without them. They indicated from day 1 that they would have an alternate train show. The following is a news release from NMRA: June 10, 2003 NMRA/NFR Maple Leaf 2003 Convention Toronto, Ontario MAPLE LEAF TRAIN SHOW ANNOUNCED Organizers of the Maple Leaf 2003 NMRA National Convention in Toronto, being held from July 13 to July 20, have announced today that the Maple Leaf Train Show which will run in conjunction with the Convention on Saturday July 19th and Sunday July 20th will be held at the International Centre. The International Centre is one of Toronto's premier Trade Show facilities and is located just west of the convention hotels. The Maple Leaf Train Show will provide the short free shuttle service to the Train Show for convention attendees. Attendees of the Maple Leaf 2003 Convention will have access to the Maple Leaf Train Show as part of their registration package. The Maple Leaf Train Show will occupy 100,000sq. ft. of space and will contain numerous display layouts in all of the major scales. Vendors who are interested in participating are asked to contact Doug Jarvis at 905-945-2775, e-mail FAX 905-945-0197 or Frank Steele at 613-378-0309 FAX 613-378-1361. Vendor pricing information will be made available on contact. Rates are consistent with the normal Toronto market. Admission prices for the General Public will be: Adult - $10 Kids under 6 - Free Kids (age 6 -12) - $4 Seniors - $8 Train Show hours are: Saturday: July 19th 10 a.m. to 5 p.m. Sunday: July 20th 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. Convention attendees will find updates on the convention Web Site http://www.ml2003.com/. SEE YOU IN TORONTO JULY 13TH - 20TH MAPLE LEAF 2003 ORGANIZING COMMITTEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] backdrops Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:02:27 +0000 OK, I am trying to take the easy way out and not having much success. I am looking for pictures of industrial buildings on the web that I can print out and paste onto my backdrop to build depth to my city area. They are darn near impossible to find that are in the correct perspective. Does anybody know of a source for this type of picture? It needs to be of industrial buildings taken from ground level. Nearly all I have found are from higher elevations. Someone could do us modelers a real service by supplying a web page repository where individuals could send pictures for other modelers to use. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 14:37:33 -0400 From: Godfrey Hall Subject: Re: [PRR] NMRA Convention/National Train Show However, Bill, the host group has put together a train show almost as large - on their own!! -godfrey hall William Bigler wrote: > For those planning to attend the NMRA Convention in Toronto, note that the > latest issue of the NMRA Bulletin announced cancellation of the national > train show. Too many vendors canceled due to SARS concerns to be able to > put on a first class show. > > Bill Bigler > Big Flats NY > Modeling PRR Renovo & > Williamsport WWII > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 14:47:09 -0400 From: Godfrey Hall Subject: Re: [PRR] NMRA Convention Yes Patrick, I'll be helping in the TH&BHS booth in the SIG room. Please come and visit. - godfrey hall pgrace wrote: > Are any listers going to the NMRA convention next week? > > Patrick Grace > www.prr.org.uk > www.scanrailsoc.org.uk > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "edmund burbage" Subject: [PRR] For Bill Bigler in New York state Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 15:01:46 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0455_01C34561.D9FA2720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Do you ever run across any switch keys? I am looking for a Williamsport = and North Branch RR key for my collection Lee Burbage Ret Rail and Military Man ------=_NextPart_000_0455_01C34561.D9FA2720 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Do you ever run across any switch keys? I am looking for a = Williamsport and=20 North Branch RR key for my collection
 
Lee Burbage
Ret Rail and Military Man
------=_NextPart_000_0455_01C34561.D9FA2720-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Warsaw, Ind. Train Movements (was Re: [PRR] 1965 troop movement) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 20:11:11 +0000 Fred: Thank you for your interest. In regards to Warsaw, I am preparing an article(s) for the Keystone. I have the daily trainsheet forms (C-355) for Warsaw Tower for every day in 1965 and 10 of the 12 months for 1966. I acquired these sheets from a shortage locker on the towers first floor just days before it was raised in 1986. I am in the process of entering data in a Excel spreadsheet and will use it as a base for entering the data for sorting and analyzing purposes. I the data that I am entering is the following Date Direction Train Number Engine Number Time of Arrival Time of Arrival of adjacent interlocking. For this data, I will be able to determine the most likely classes of engines that pulled trains (by pass/frt or by specific train). I will also determine if there was certain engine numbers within a specific class(i.e. GP-35) that appeared on the Fort Wayne with a degree of frequency. One limitation of the data is that only the lead unit engine number was written down; no information regarding the number of engines in the consist or thier numbers was recorded. Still the info. will be insightful. Other information will be determined such as the average travel speed of each train (by pass. / frt. and by specific train (Broadway, Admiral, etc.) and how it compared to the timetable month to month. After a l-o-n-g hiatus, I am beginning to enter in data again and should have the months of June and July 1965 entered by the end of the month. I will perform an analysis of these months and produce a short article on it. I will then make it available to Jerry for his website as well as others on PRR-Talk. I would be interested in getting feedback from people such as yourself on what information is important to you and how to format it. It should be an interesting summer. In addition, I am working on my Fort Wayne layout in my basement. All track work from Bourbon, Indiana through Hamlet is done. I am now working on the Wanatah interlocking. After that, I will be laying track eastward from Bourbon to Warsaw, then Columbia City, and then finally to Fort Wayne. In the meantime, if you need and train data from a specific date in 1965 or 1966, I would be more than happy to furnish it to you. Ted Andrews >From: Frederick Ripley >To: Ted Andrews >Subject: Re: [PRR] 1965 troop movement >Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 14:07:55 -0500 > >Ted, > >The form you mention from Warsaw (presumably showing daily train movements) >intrigues me! I am modeling Crestline-Ft. Wayne, 1965-67. I have ETT's >from these years, showing all the freight schedules, but it would be very >interesting to me to see >a daily train sheet or two from some location on the Pittsburgh-Chicago >main, to see how >close to their schedules the freights ran, whether there were 2nd sections, >how many >extras, etc. > >Would it be possible for you to share some of this info? If xeroxing is >possible, >I would be delighted to pay copy costs plus postage. > >How is your layout coming? Was it Warsaw-Valpo, 1950's? > >Thanks, Fred R. _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: Warsaw, Ind. Train Movements (was Re: [PRR] 1965 troop Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 17:04:41 -0400 Ted, You noted that a limitation to the train order is that inly the lead engine number was written down. Over time once everything is entered it might be easier than you think to figure out how many units may have been on a consist. Here is an example to prove my point. Say we have two engines that are numbered 1 and 2. Engine one faces eastbound and engine 2 faces westbound. And there are two cities, say York and Philly. If one a given date: June 6th, 1965 engine 1 moves a train east from york to philly. Then, the next day or two after, number 2 moves a train west to york from philly. Then a few days later engine 1 moves a train east from york to philly. This is where the fun can begin. Since engine 1 cannot obviously go from york to philly twice without being run east there is a point in between the two arrival times that engine traveled westbound. There is a varying margin of error if you take into account turntables, wyes, etc. But, generally the idea can work. I hope this sheds a little bit of light into an otherwise dark corner. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:24:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Warsaw, Ind. Train Movements (was Re: [PRR] 1965 Ted, Your Tower Records find reminded me of a book I barrowed from someone recently. It dates from 1955 thru mid 1964. It is a log book from the Pitcarin Enginehouse. In this book the worker would record his daily activity on each of the Locos that was sent his way for fixing, usually light repair that could be done at the house or on site. The worker recorded Times, Trouble reported, Touble found, Loco Numbers, What was done to fix and when Loco was ready for service again. All kinds of Power is Listed, Sharks, FM's FA's, F's, E's, Centipedes, etc. Even found a few J1's and a K4 that needed work. Usually for Hot Boxes. Here is an example: 9-24-55 Notified by Engineer: 6402--J1 PNE Helper Trouble Reported: Extension Rod to Water Pump Disconnected & Right Front ???? Cock Stuck Open. Repairs Made: Extension Rod Coupled up at Steam Valve to Water Pump. Right Front ???? Cock Cleaned Out. Engine 6402 J1 arrived at 7:30am left 7:45am And ..... 11-3-55 5338-K4s, Engine Dead in Train, West, (for Scrap) Right Trailer Hot Bearing. Bobbet milled off Pitcarin Crew to renew Bearing on #10 Track Derry Cut out 6 pm, Report R. Akins at 2 PM 11-4-55, Ready to Move. end samples..... Lots of interesting reading, especialy to what the problems were with the J1's. Past history recorded for life.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: Warsaw, Ind. Train Movements (was Re: [PRR] 1965 troop Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 21:38:21 +0000 John: Thanks for your email and comments. Your assumptions may be valid since the Fort Wayne was relatively flat; the photos that I have seen consist of 2-3 engines per train. If the engines were held together as a unit, then it made be likely to see the opposite end of the engine lashup the following day on a train heading in the opposite direction. The middle units will be hard to determine. Especially the B-units (F-3B's, F-7B's, FP-7B's, E-7B's and even GP-9B's). These never were on the point for obvious reasons but were there nonetheless. It was common practice for the Pennsy to have 3 E-units on its prominent passenger trains. In addition, many freight trains had F-3/F-7/GP-9 B-units in the consists and there are good photograpghical evidence that this was the case in the mid-'60's Bill Vollmer, who worked for the Pennsy in Chicago in the early to mid -'60's probably could shed some light on this. Ted >From: John Frantz >To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com >CC: "Ted Andrews" >Subject: Re: Warsaw, Ind. Train Movements (was Re: [PRR] 1965 troop >movement) >Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 17:04:41 -0400 > >Ted, > >You noted that a limitation to the train order is that inly the lead engine >number was written down. Over time once everything is entered it might be >easier than you think to figure out how many units may have been on a >consist. > >Here is an example to prove my point. Say we have two engines that are >numbered 1 and 2. Engine one faces eastbound and engine 2 faces westbound. >And there are two cities, say York and Philly. If one a given date: June >6th, 1965 engine 1 moves a train east from york to philly. Then, the next >day or two after, number 2 moves a train west to york from philly. Then a >few days later engine 1 moves a train east from york to philly. > >This is where the fun can begin. Since engine 1 cannot obviously go from >york to philly twice without being run east there is a point in between the >two arrival times that engine traveled westbound. There is a varying margin >of error if you take into account turntables, wyes, etc. But, generally the >idea can work. > >I hope this sheds a little bit of light into an otherwise dark corner. > >John > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Phildelphia interchanges Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 21:42:27 +0000 I can't recall any Philadlephia interchanges with other roads between Zoo and Morris except for the Reading Belmont branch and the PRSL connection at Frankford Junction. Any others? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Phildelphia interchanges Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:01:49 -0400 PRR PHL Interchanges ca. 1968 B&O 20th and Wolf Streets Delaware and Commercial Avenues Grays Ferry (connection but not used regularly for interchange) PRSL Pavonia Junction (NJ) Reading North Philadelphia (22nd St) Delaware Avenue and Noble Street Grays Ferry Belmont Kensington-Richmond Junction Sears Station Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] moving parts on brass models Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:08:31 -0400 Hi All, I am just trying to take a little poll on how important moving doors and opening hatches are for brass freight cars. I have heard "if I am paying $XXX.XX for a car, those door better open." The parts needed to make these items move and open actually make the car a little less accurate, because they have to be out of scale. To me, there is nothing more aggravating then having doors slide and hatches hanging open while painting the car. I solder ALL of them shut. There is nothing in there to see anyway. Then you can scratch up your weathering job too. How many of you have ever posed a scene loading a car? OK, so that makes 3 of you. Could you have done it with a plastic car? SURE can! Hit me with your thoughts please! Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] moving parts on brass models Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 07:28:21 -0400 Bill, I can readily agree with you when it comes to how rediculous moving parts on a piece of brass can be. Dad and I were babysitting a new Western Maryland J1 and I was looking at it and found out that the sand hatches came off with little interior chains. I felt that detail wasn't needed. Personally, when it comes to brass, I close everything up and do my experiments in plastic. I only have one exception, and that is putting a tailsign and end lights on an observation/business car. Your in railroading, John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Pete Reinhold" Subject: RE: [PRR] moving parts on brass models Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:35:29 -0500 Bill and list, I'll keep this short. Accuracy over moving parts in models. The doors on the prototype were closed most of the time anyway. Pete Reinhold ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: Warsaw, Ind. Train Movements (was Re: [PRR] 1965 troop Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:26:26 +0000 Norm: It would be interesting in how long that combination lasted. It may be true from the late '40's to the late '50's but when passenger service began to be curtailed and there was a surplus of engines, perhaps three"A" units (as per the Cedco calender) were the more typical in the 1960's. Still, it would be great to model PB-1's on the Lines West. One other thought. I believe that only 1 PB-1 was given the broad stripe treatment. All others had the 5-stripe scheme. Perhaps that may shead light on the frequency of PB-1's use on passenger trains from the late '50's onward. Ted >From: ndbprr@att.net >To: "Ted Andrews" >Subject: Re: Warsaw, Ind. Train Movements (was Re: [PRR] 1965 troop >movement) >Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:58:18 +0000 > >Pennsy Power 2 shows the PB's in conjunction with the E7A's in the front >section on diesels that lists all the stats and numbers. I missed that >fact >for about 20 years! > > Thanks for the info Norm! I have that calender in my office and am >looking > > at that picture as I write this. > > > > Ted > > > > > > >From: ndbprr@att.net > > >To: "Ted Andrews" > > >Subject: Re: Warsaw, Ind. Train Movements (was Re: [PRR] 1965 troop > > >movement) > > >Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 21:54:57 +0000 > > > > > >Be careful with E7B's. The PB's were used with the initial E7A's (all >5). > > >Every picture of E7's I have seen show mostly A units. The July Cedco > > >calendar > > >picture shows three A's leaving Chicago with an E7 ABA lash up in the > > >background. E7B's may be farely rare - even though I have two of 'em! > > >Norm > > >Bell > > > > John: > > > > > > > > Thanks for your email and comments. Your assumptions may be valid >since > > >the > > > > Fort Wayne was relatively flat; the photos that I have seen consist >of > > >2-3 > > > > engines per train. If the engines were held together as a unit, then >it > > >made > > > > be likely to see the opposite end of the engine lashup the following >day > > >on > > > > a train heading in the opposite direction. > > > > > > > > The middle units will be hard to determine. Especially the B-units > > >(F-3B's, > > > > F-7B's, FP-7B's, E-7B's and even GP-9B's). These never were on the >point > > >for > > > > obvious reasons but were there nonetheless. It was common practice >for > > >the > > > > Pennsy to have 3 E-units on its prominent passenger trains. In >addition, > > > > many freight trains had F-3/F-7/GP-9 B-units in the consists and >there > > >are > > > > good photograpghical evidence that this was the case in the >mid-'60's > > > > > > > > Bill Vollmer, who worked for the Pennsy in Chicago in the early to >mid > > > > -'60's probably could shed some light on this. > > > > > > > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: John Frantz > > > > >To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > > > > >CC: "Ted Andrews" > > > > >Subject: Re: Warsaw, Ind. Train Movements (was Re: [PRR] 1965 troop > > > > >movement) > > > > >Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 17:04:41 -0400 > > > > > > > > > >Ted, > > > > > > > > > >You noted that a limitation to the train order is that inly the >lead > > >engine > > > > >number was written down. Over time once everything is entered it >might > > >be > > > > >easier than you think to figure out how many units may have been on >a > > > > >consist. > > > > > > > > > >Here is an example to prove my point. Say we have two engines that >are > > > > >numbered 1 and 2. Engine one faces eastbound and engine 2 faces > > >westbound. > > > > >And there are two cities, say York and Philly. If one a given date: > > >June > > > > >6th, 1965 engine 1 moves a train east from york to philly. Then, >the > > >next > > > > >day or two after, number 2 moves a train west to york from philly. >Then > > >a > > > > >few days later engine 1 moves a train east from york to philly. > > > > > > > > > >This is where the fun can begin. Since engine 1 cannot obviously go > > >from > > > > >york to philly twice without being run east there is a point in >between > > >the > > > > >two arrival times that engine traveled westbound. There is a >varying > > >margin > > > > >of error if you take into account turntables, wyes, etc. But, >generally > > >the > > > > >idea can work. > > > > > > > > > >I hope this sheds a little bit of light into an otherwise dark >corner. > > > > > > > > > >John > > > > > > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > > > > > > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Hpallesen" Subject: Re: [PRR] moving parts on brass models Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:48:58 +0200 Bill and list, I am new on this list, I am a Danish 0-Scale (both 2-rail & stud(3)-rail) PRR fan building a layout (using ATLAS O's new code 148 2-rail track) in Reims,France ! Any of you from Europe ??? I like moving parts like Cab-windows on my steam locomotives, so I can have my friendly engineer saying hallo,I do not need moving parts, I only try a couple of times and then never use, I hate out of scale details to make them moving! I do not like models were numberboards and markerlamps are not illuminated! I like sound and the possibility to have SYNCRONICED smoke! I do not like LIONEL couplers and HiRail's unnecessary big flanges (and too small wheels) etc to make bigger locomotives run on streetcar curves, this and moving diesel cowcatchers made me sell most of my HiRail ! You are welcome to e-mail me direct h2pallesen@wanadoo.fr ! Regards Hugo B. Pallesen Member of NMRA,TCA,PRR T&HS(Phil./Nation.)FREMO,ARGE,GOG,OSK, etc... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Reinhold" To: "'Steam Era Freight cars'" ; "'PRR Talk'" Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 2:35 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] moving parts on brass models > Bill and list, > > I'll keep this short. Accuracy over moving parts in models. The doors > on the prototype were closed most of the time anyway. > > Pete Reinhold > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: [PRR] Moving Mail on the MOPAC Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:56:05 +0000 Stumbled onto this while searching for something else - in 1999, the TRRA Historical Society ran an issue devoted exclusively to Missouri Pacific mail trains - more info is at: http://trra-hts.railfan.net/issue4950.html This article might answer some of those questions about MOPAC baggage and express cars on the Pennsy. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] moving parts on brass models Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:59:58 -0400 Friends: For me, I don't think operating doors for brass or plastic are that critical. Cars that operate have the door glued shut, as I would rather see scale size hardware. I usually remove the plastic components and make smaller ones from scratch and glue the door in place, opened or closed. In the past, I have detailed a string of freight cars on a siding with easy view from the aisle and modeled scale debris (strapping, brown paper and lumber blocking etc) with workers, as if the cars were being cleaned out after unloading. Very unusual and effective foreground scene. Lew "It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it." -- Al Gore, Vice President "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?" -- Lee Iacocca "If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure." -- Bill Clinton, President Synergistic Solutions: Alternative, Sustainable Waste Management and Energy Systems. Advocating water for life through the integration of sustainable agriculture, sustainable toilets, sustainable gray water systems and sustainable green construction. Lewis J. Matt III, Ph.D., C.S.E.O., B.O.C.A.I. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Lane" To: "PRR Modeling" ; "Steam Era Freight cars" ; "PRR Talk" ; "Brass Collectors" Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 7:08 AM Subject: [PRR] moving parts on brass models > Hi All, > > I am just trying to take a little poll on how important moving doors and > opening hatches are for brass freight cars. I have heard "if I am paying > $XXX.XX for a car, those door better open." > > The parts needed to make these items move and open actually make the car a > little less accurate, because they have to be out of scale. To me, there is > nothing more aggravating then having doors slide and hatches hanging open > while painting the car. I solder ALL of them shut. There is nothing in there > to see anyway. Then you can scratch up your weathering job too. > > How many of you have ever posed a scene loading a car? OK, so that makes 3 > of you. Could you have done it with a plastic car? SURE can! > > Hit me with your thoughts please! > > Thanks > Bill > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] E7's and PB's Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 16:19:00 +0000 Pennsy Power 2 shows a picture of a PB between two E7A's and say's that they were used in that manner when the PA's were switched to freight service. Does anybody know for how long and what trains they were used on? Was it all five? Did they remain DGLE 5 stripe or were they repainted Tuscan 5 stripe? Thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Bruce" Subject: Re: [PRR] E7's and PB's Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:46:09 -0700 There was an article on this in Mainline Modeler some time ago. Some of the PBs were repainted in tuscan single-stripe, but none of the PAs was. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Volkmer" To: ; "'PRR-Talk'" Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 9:43 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] E7's and PB's > In the summer of 1958 they were used that way between Baltimore and > Harrisburg on 575 and 581. By 1959 or possibly 1960 they were back in > coal drag service out of E. Altoona. > > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of > ndbprr@att.net > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 12:19 PM > To: PRR-Talk > Subject: [PRR] E7's and PB's > > > Pennsy Power 2 shows a picture of a PB between two E7A's and say's that > they > were used in that manner when the PA's were switched to freight service. > Does > anybody know for how long and what trains they were used on? Was it > all > five? Did they remain DGLE 5 stripe or were they repainted Tuscan 5 > stripe? > Thanks. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain N Scale 50' Box Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:01:42 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell On 8 Jul, Jerry Britton wrote: > FYI: A few months ago InterMountain ran a "not quite right -- but > close" AAR 50' double door box car in N scale, Circle Keystone, with > AUTOMOBILES on the side. It is quite an attractive car, actually. > > This month they are running the same car in a single door version, > Shadow Keystone (no AUTOMOBILES). There are 12 road numbers. Jerry, is this for August release? It's not listed in the July releases on their "new products" page: http://www.intermountain-railway.com/new.html It has long been listed on the "upcoming products" page. I wonder what the class and dates are on the car? Most of the 50' single-door cars have been at least late fifties, with at least one (without roofwalk) that was much later. Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:14:35 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain N Scale 50' Box From: Jerry Britton On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 10:01 AM, Dennis Rockwell wrote: > Jerry, is this for August release? It's not listed in the > July releases on their "new products" page: > > http://www.intermountain-railway.com/new.html The web page is incorrect. I've already notified them. The web page has the car listed, but the webmaster duped New York Central into the road name. The dealer memo indicates Pennsy and has a photo of the car. It is for July release. > > It has long been listed on the "upcoming products" page. So have a lot of cars! That's about a six month look ahead. > > I wonder what the class and dates are on the car? Most of > the 50' single-door cars have been at least late fifties, > with at least one (without roofwalk) that was much later. I've e-mailed them this question but have not heard back yet. The double-door car is a very nice car, but is kind of a combination of subclasses and not accurate for any one single subclass. Will be interesting to see what they call this car! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain N Scale 50' Box Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:30:13 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell On 10 Jul, Jerry Britton wrote: > On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 10:01 AM, Dennis Rockwell wrote: > > > Jerry, is this for August release? It's not listed in the > > July releases on their "new products" page: > > > > http://www.intermountain-railway.com/new.html > > The web page is incorrect. I've already notified them. The web page has > the car listed, but the webmaster duped New York Central into the road > name. The dealer memo indicates Pennsy and has a photo of the car. It > is for July release. Ah! There it is. I do wish that they'd steal a good idea from Atlas and post the car art when they haven't taken a photo yet (but they had one for the dealer memo? Huh?). The two CB&Q cars are vastly different and about ten years apart. Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:49:57 -0400 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] New R50B Paint Schemes Bruce replies to Frank... > Frank sez: >>I notice that Walthers has announced three new paint schemes for the >>R50B which they call Based on the dates, here is what I beleive these schemes are: > >>1) 1939 paint scheme; > This is not FOM but is lettered in Futura . This scheme dates from 7-13-1939 to 6-13-1941 and has a car cement roof, light Tuscan Red body, Olive trucks, Olive underbody equipment, Black underframe, Buff lettering with no edging, Railway Express Agency lettering, 5 5/8" spacing of numerals, wide spacing of all lettering, no end numbers.< > >>2) 1943-44 Tuscan paint scheme; > > This scheme dates from 9-29-1943 to 9-7-1944 and consists of light Tuscan > Red body, Black roof, Black trucks, Tuscan Red underbody equipment, Tuscan > Red underframe, Block style lettering with round P and S, Buff lettering > with no edging, Railway Express Agency lettering, 5 5/8" spacing of > numerals, wide spacing of all lettering, no end numbers. > > >3) 1954 paint scheme no REA logo. > > IIRC, this is the standard postwar scheme without REA lettering > > Thanks for the heads up that these are the next release Frank! > > Happy Rails > Bruce Bruce is correct but we are still working on a few issues with Walthers but they should be on track to meet their deadline. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Station announcer recordings Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:07:02 +0000 A couple of months ago someone posted a message looking for a copy of the recordings made in the late 40's. I posted that I had them and would be willing to copy them to tape but was never contacted with where to send them. If the person is still around please contact me off list with the information needed to help you. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach" Subject: [PRR] HO scale passenger cars Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:54:32 -0400

At one time I had a list of all the plastic HO scale passenger cars that are correct for the Pennsy. Due to a computer error, I have since lost that list. Can anyone tell me which passenger cars, particularly the Walthers, Rivarossi, and IHC cars, are correct for the Pennsy? This would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Eric
 
 
--- Eric Lauterbach
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
 

----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] N scale baggage cars Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:18:50 +0000 This is from the Trains.com website. There is also a picture if the car but it wouldn't copy and paste. N scale Hell Gate Models offers both Pennsylvania RR class BM70k baggage/Railway Post Office and class B60b baggage/express car kits. The baggage/Railway Post Office kit features a cast-resin body and underframe, two styles of doors, American Limited diaphragms, a brake wheel, etched-brass detail parts, and decals but no trucks or couplers. The baggage/express car kit features a cast-resin body and underframe, East Wind Manufacturing 2D-P5 trucks, etched-brass detail parts, a brake wheel, and decals. Hell Gate Models, P.O. Box 2076, Mill Valley, CA 94942; www.hellgatemodels.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:52:28 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Phildelphia interchanges --part1_12d.2d69d553.2c41b2ec_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Norm. I think there use to be a connection of the RDG and the PRR at Engleside,way back alot of years. That is where Acme use to have a large freezer warehouse and Conrail bought it,tore it down and made the new connection from the Trenton Line,former RDG that connected to the B&O, up to connect to the then Amtrak(ex PRR)"0" track to make a straight move to the Delair Bridge and Camden. Pat McKinney --part1_12d.2d69d553.2c41b2ec_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Norm.
          I think there use to=20= be a connection of the RDG and the PRR at Engleside,way back alot of years.=20= That is where Acme use to have a large freezer warehouse and Conrail bought=20= it,tore it down and made the new connection from the Trenton Line,former RDG= that connected to the B&O, up to connect to the then Amtrak(ex PRR)"0"=20= track to make a straight move to the Delair Bridge and Camden.

Pat McKinney --part1_12d.2d69d553.2c41b2ec_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Philadelphia interchanges Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 21:45:54 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C348BE.F88F68C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Re: I think there use to be a connection of the RDG and the PRR at Engleside,way back alot of years. I f there was a connection there, I don't remember. However, it doesn't show as an interchange point in either 1950 or 1968. Al ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C348BE.F88F68C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Re: I think=20 there use to be a connection of the RDG and the PRR at Engleside,way = back alot=20 of years.
 
I f there was a connection there, I don't = remember.=20 However, it doesn't show as an interchange point in either 1950 or=20 1968.
 
 
Al
------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C348BE.F88F68C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 19:54:35 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: RE: [PRR] Philadelphia interchanges --- Al Buchan wrote: > Re: I think there use to be a connection of the RDG and the PRR at > Engleside,way back alot of years. > > If there was a connection there, I don't remember. However, it > doesn't show as an interchange point in either 1950 or 1968. > According th the valuation report (Vol 22, page 214) PRR had a "traffic connection" with the Philadelphia and Reading Rwy at, among others, Engleside, PA. That eas as of June 30, 1918. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:24:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] MofW Tenders List, Is there a list somewhere of the Tenders used in MofW service? In particular, the long haul welded side Tenders. When I say "list", I also mean if records exsist to match what the MofW number was and what the original Tender number was or what it atleast came from. I have purpose to this question. Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] MofW Tenders Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:41:22 -0400 Gary, If there is I've never seen it, which doesn't mean much. I'd be very interested in it. Thanx. Al Re: List of Tenders used in MfW service? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Philadelphia interchanges Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:07:28 -0400 There were lots of places that had track connections that may or may not have at one time been interchanges. Go to any ORER for your favorite railroad an go to the back pages under "Consolidated Freight Connections and Junction Points," where all connections are listed. Then check how many have a "Note 1" annotation, which means "Track connection but not used as regular interchange point." These of course changed over time. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Why does this happen? Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 18:09:07 -0400 Hi All, I have just returned from the NASG convention where I sat at my table promoting and selling my X29 project. www.pennsysmodels.com The following has happened before, however, when it happened this week, I REALLY had to wonder...... A man came up to the table and looked at the pilot model. He seemed to be impressed with the detail and quality. His comments were positive. He said, "I would need at least 20 of these, but I can't afford that many of them." I told him this would be his only chance to get the variety of cars in S Scale because they will most likely never be made again. After a little more conversation, he took the order form and wandered off into the show. He left me more then a little bit wondrous about him. Could someone PLEASE explain this to me? If you want 20 of a certain car, but can't afford that many of them, then how is it that buying none is BETTER then buying one or two of them? If you are modeling the Pennsy as this man said he was, you HAVE to have the X29! I truly don't understand it. Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 19:18:14 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Why does this happen? --part1_7d.3a97a09c.2c4342b6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/13/2003 6:15:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, billlane@comcast.net writes: > Could someone PLEASE explain this to me? If you want 20 of a certain car, > but can't afford that many of them, then how is it that buying none is > BETTER then buying one or two of them? If you are modeling the Pennsy as > this man said he was, you HAVE to have the X29! I truly don't understand it. > Bill, the guy at the convention was not me, but since I am one of the people who said this to you some years ago, here is the story. The price of one car is more than I can comfortably pay, but certainly a fair return for the work you have put into it. If I need 20, and will have to find some other way to simulate the other 19 with cars that are not as good as yours, why pay an uncomfortable amount for the 20th? Having 19 average cars and 1 super car is not worth it to me. 20 average cars works as well. This is why the world has Ford Expeditions and Ford Escorts. Both are worth their price. Not everyone chooses to, or can, pay the higher price. Lee Rainey --part1_7d.3a97a09c.2c4342b6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 7/13/2003 6:15:33 PM Eastern Standa= rd Time, billlane@comcast.net writes:


Could someone PLEASE explain th= is to me? If you want 20 of a certain car,
but can't afford that many of them, then how is it that buying none is
BETTER then buying one or two of them? If you are modeling the Pennsy as
this man said he was, you HAVE to have the X29! I truly don't understand it.=


Bill, the guy at the convention was not me, but since I am one of the people= who said this to you some years ago, here is the story. The price of one ca= r is more than I can comfortably pay, but certainly a fair return for the wo= rk you have put into it. If I need 20, and will have to find some other way=20= to simulate the other 19 with cars that are not as good as yours, why pay an= uncomfortable amount for the 20th? Having 19 average cars and 1 super car i= s not worth it to me. 20 average cars works as well.

This is why the world has Ford Expeditions and Ford Escorts. Both are worth=20= their price. Not everyone chooses to, or can, pay the higher price.

Lee Rainey --part1_7d.3a97a09c.2c4342b6_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Why does this happen? Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 19:58:37 -0400 Bill, Lee ERainey gave you one excellent reason, and I'll suggest another. Many folks like you go to conventions and sell your wares at the retail price, but you also sell to dealers at the standard dealer discount. Perhaps the gentleman thought that he could get a better price from a dealer for ordering 20 there. I'm in N scale, not S, so I'm not familiar with how you sell your products, but I've sure seen this happen. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Lane" To: "Steam Era Freight cars" ; "S Scale List" ; "PRR Talk" ; "PRR Modeling" ; "Brass Collectors" Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 6:09 PM Subject: [PRR] Why does this happen? > Hi All, > > I have just returned from the NASG convention where I sat at my table > promoting and selling my X29 project. www.pennsysmodels.com > > The following has happened before, however, when it happened this week, I > REALLY had to wonder...... > > A man came up to the table and looked at the pilot model. He seemed to be > impressed with the detail and quality. His comments were positive. He said, > "I would need at least 20 of these, but I can't afford that many of them." I > told him this would be his only chance to get the variety of cars in S Scale > because they will most likely never be made again. After a little more > conversation, he took the order form and wandered off into the show. He left > me more then a little bit wondrous about him. > > Could someone PLEASE explain this to me? If you want 20 of a certain car, > but can't afford that many of them, then how is it that buying none is > BETTER then buying one or two of them? If you are modeling the Pennsy as > this man said he was, you HAVE to have the X29! I truly don't understand it. > > Thanks > Bill > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:55:08 EDT Subject: [PRR] Walthers 10-5 smooth side car --part1_99.3a8df79f.2c43596c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I cannot find a Pennsy photo that matches the Walthers photo on their web site. Did the Pennsy have these cars or were their these cars in other roads paint schemes that travelled on Pennsy trains. Many thanks, Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 --part1_99.3a8df79f.2c43596c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   I cannot find a Pennsy photo that matches the W= althers photo on their web site.  Did the Pennsy have these cars or wer= e their these cars in other roads paint schemes that travelled on Pennsy tra= ins.

Many thanks,

Evan Leisey
RCT&HS  346 --part1_99.3a8df79f.2c43596c_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] Re: [PCL] Walthers 10-5 smooth side car Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:50:43 -0500 > I cannot find a Pennsy photo that matches the Walthers photo on their web > site. Did the Pennsy have these cars or were their these cars in other roads > paint schemes that travelled on Pennsy trains. > > Many thanks, > > Evan Leisey I didn't get out the rivet counter (welded side anyway) but the photo I see on the Walthers site looks identical (less skirting) to the diagram in the Pullman-Standard reference library for the 41 10-5s delivered in 1938-40 to the PRR. Skirting is another issue with these PRR prewar Walthers cars delivered in the postwar scheme. I hope they will follow up the promised Fleet of Modernism scheme for the 4-4-2 with one for the 10-5 and both have full skirting as appropriate. When I get ambitious I will get an undec 4-4-2 with skirting to do the Golden State run-through car on the PRR. Bob Zoeller Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:09:57 -0400 From: "Michael A. Hmel" Subject: Re: [PRR] Why does this happen? Hi List , Another reason may be that the gentleman may have been tring to get a little discount from you for 20 cars . I run into this every day in my construction business . " I have this big job to do in a few months , but for now I need this tiny thing done . How about taking care of me cause you'll get the big one later "........ Sure ! If I got all those I may a have a real set of PRR F's running around my island . I think that most people have money for what they have money for . They buy whats important to them . Thats why they have Ford Explorers , Ford Expeditions and Ford Excursions . Chances are he was just " sight seeing " Mike ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Pennsy Nut" Subject: Re: [PRR] Why does this happen? Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:38:07 -0500 Hi Y'all I get a kick out of the "Ford" analogies. How about GM? They have so many duplicate models it's staggering. Chevy and GMC and every model one has, the other has also. Blazer, Yukon, Suburban & Jimmy and ?. I don't even know all the names. Not to mention all the different vans they sell. LOL I think you, Mike, have hit the nail on the head. That gentleman was indeed looking for a discount. He wanted the Bill to say "how about 20 for the price of 10" or something equally ridiculous. Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist PRRTHS #1204 & Proud SPF ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael A. Hmel" To: "prr-talk list" Sent: Monday, 14 July, 2003 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Why does this happen? > Hi List , > Another reason may be that the gentleman may have been tring to get a little > discount from you for 20 cars . I run into this every day in my construction > business . " I have this big job to do in a few months , but for now I need > this tiny thing done . How about taking care of me cause you'll get the big > one later "........ Sure ! If I got all those I may a have a real set of PRR > F's running around my island . I think that most people have money for what > they have money for . They buy whats important to them . Thats why they have > Ford Explorers , Ford Expeditions and Ford Excursions . > Chances are he was just " sight seeing " > > Mike > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 06:44:50 GMT Subject: [PRR] Golden State run through ops From: Dominic Mazoch The GS ran from Chicago to Las Angeles via El Paso over the RI and SP. Now a few years ago, K-Line made O-27 and O-31 cars for this train. The ads mentioned the PRR was the "third railroad" involved with the GS. Did the whole train exchange between the RI and PRR at Chicago, or just some cars. Thanks for any info, Dominic Mazoch ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 07:00:28 EDT Subject: [PRR] Big Thanks --part1_1a5.16c7ff3a.2c43e74c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To all, A note of thanks for all the help you have given me since joining this list. Much learned and many myths dispelled. We are fortunate to have a site such as this. Thank you very much, Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 --part1_1a5.16c7ff3a.2c43e74c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To all,

  A note of thanks for all the help you have given me since joining thi= s list.  Much learned and many myths dispelled.

   We are fortunate to have a site such as this.

Thank you very much,

Evan Leisey
RCT&HS  346 --part1_1a5.16c7ff3a.2c43e74c_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" From: Dominic Mazoch Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 06:44:50 GMT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Golden State run through ops The GS ran from Chicago to Las Angeles via El Paso over the RI and SP. Now a few years ago, K-Line made O-27 and O-31 cars for this train. The ads mentioned the PRR was the "third railroad" involved with the GS. Did the whole train exchange between the RI and PRR at Chicago, or just some cars. Thanks for any info, Dominic Mazoch ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Naturally Painless & Spray Away Backaches & Joint Pain. $19.97 http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2867&lp=m331.html http://us.click.yahoo.com/tJIe0D/79VGAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Doug Day" Subject: [PRR] VO-1000 Stacks. Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:37:16 -0400 List, Just got an un-numbered VO-1000 and looking at the list saw that the "P" Co. didn't own all that many. These are 4 & 1 stack versions I guess and I did the #5919 before and got advice that is had 1 stack on the fireman's side close to the cab. Can anybody give me the numbers and amount of stacks the other numbers had? Most people that visit my layout won't know the difference, but "I" will! Thanks for the info. Doug (OH) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] Golden State run through ops Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 07:46:23 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C349DC.05E62EF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > The ads mentioned the PRR was the "third railroad" involved with the = GS. Did the whole train exchange between the RI and PRR at Chicago, or just = some cars. > Dominic Mazoch A 4-4-2 was the coast-to-coast car in Golden State-PRR service. For a = more complete answer I will repeat my private post to Evan Leisey on the Passenger Car List. Source is the usual Blardone-Tilp PRR Passenger Car = and Lettering guide, plus consist books and public timetables of the era. Quote: The Golden State was a joint Rock Island-SP train. A pool of 4 coast-to-coast cars was created with the Pennsy. Two cars with numbers from the SP-RI and PRR cars Imperial Range and Imperial Terrace. The = latter cars started out in 1946 in two-tone gray like those running through on = the Sante Fe. In 1948 the Pennsy cars were painted in the red and silver of = the new Golden State. The through cars were listed on the PRR Golden Arrow though I think I have seen other timetable options. The PRR cars were repainted two-tone gray in 1951, about the time the Golden State through cars stopped. They went back to tuscan red Christmas of 1953. Note that these were 4-4-2s. Some PRR 10-5s were in MOP colors as = another poster noted. The biggest issue I have with Walthers is the skirting. I can't find = photos of either type of prewar PRR car without skirts prior to the early 60's. = In the case of the 4-4-2, I can't find any like the Walthers car, with the skirts removed and the upper berth windows blocked out. They are = offering a 4-4-2 in Fleet of Modernism and in the Pullman two-tone gray. Hopefully they will use the full-skirted tooling for these cars. Bob Zoeller ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C349DC.05E62EF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 

> The ads mentioned the PRR was the "third railroad" = involved with=20 the GS.
Did the whole train exchange between the RI and PRR at = Chicago, or=20 just some
cars.
> Dominic Mazoch
 
A 4-4-2 was the coast-to-coast car in Golden State-PRR = service.  For a=20 more
complete answer I will repeat my private post to Evan Leisey on=20 the
Passenger Car List.  Source is the usual Blardone-Tilp PRR = Passenger=20 Car and
Lettering guide, plus consist books and public timetables of = the=20 era.
Quote:
 
The Golden State was a joint Rock Island-SP train.   A = pool of=20 4
coast-to-coast cars was created with the  Pennsy.  Two = cars with=20 numbers
from the SP-RI and PRR cars Imperial Range and Imperial=20 Terrace.  The latter
cars started out in 1946 in two-tone gray = like=20 those running through on the
Sante Fe.  In 1948 the Pennsy cars = were=20 painted in the red and silver of the
new Golden State.  The=20 through  cars were listed on the PRR Golden Arrow
though I think = I have=20 seen other timetable options. The PRR cars were
repainted two-tone = gray in=20 1951, about the time the Golden State through
cars stopped.  = They went=20 back to tuscan red Christmas of 1953.
 
Note that these were 4-4-2s. Some PRR 10-5s were in MOP colors as=20 another
poster noted.
 
The biggest issue I have with Walthers is the skirting.  I = can't find=20 photos
of either type of prewar PRR car without skirts prior to the = early=20 60's.  In
the case of the 4-4-2, I can't find any like the = Walthers car,=20 with the
skirts removed and the upper berth windows blocked = out.  They=20 are offering a
4-4-2 in Fleet of Modernism and in the Pullman = two-tone=20 gray.  Hopefully
they will use the full-skirted tooling for = these=20 cars.
 
Bob Zoeller
------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C349DC.05E62EF0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:49:29 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] VO-1000 Stacks. From: Jerry Britton Yes, I researched all of the numbers and numbers of stacks prior to Atlas committing to the PRR versions. I also documented published photos. Note that several units were retrofitted and had their stack arrangements changed over time. The URL to the page with the details is... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/pleasemake_bs10.ws4d On Monday, July 14, 2003, at 08:37 AM, Doug Day wrote: > Just got an un-numbered VO-1000 and looking at the list saw that the > "P" Co. > didn't own all that many. These are 4 & 1 stack versions I guess and > I did > the #5919 before and got advice that is had 1 stack on the fireman's > side > close to the cab. Can anybody give me the numbers and amount of > stacks the > other numbers had? Most people that visit my layout won't know the > difference, but "I" will! Thanks for the info. > > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] Golden State run through ops Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 07:59:50 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01C349DD.E6D64CF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just to clarify a point about the above, only one coast-to-coast 4-4-2 = car is listed per day in consist books and timetables, though I too have = seen the video of a train on the Curve with two Golden State = cars---dunno if this was an extra car due to a heavy traffic day . Bob Zoeller ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01C349DD.E6D64CF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Just to clarify a point about the = above, only one=20 coast-to-coast 4-4-2 car is listed per day in consist books and = timetables,=20 though I too have seen the video of a train on the Curve with two Golden = State=20 cars---dunno if this was  an extra car due to a heavy traffic day=20 .
 
Bob Zoeller
------=_NextPart_000_004C_01C349DD.E6D64CF0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] Walthers 10-5, Golden State errata Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:06:25 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C349DE.D261AD90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I wrote:=20 < In the case of the 4-4-2, I can't find any like the Walthers car, with the skirts removed and the upper berth windows blocked out. > That should read "and the upper berth windows NOT blocked out". Bob (its early) Zoeller ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C349DE.D261AD90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I wrote:
< In
the case of the 4-4-2, = I can't find=20 any like the Walthers car, with the
skirts removed and the upper = berth=20 windows blocked out. >
 
That should read "and the upper berth = windows NOT=20 blocked out".
 
Bob (its early) = Zoeller
------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C349DE.D261AD90-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:56:56 -0400 From: Owen Thorne Subject: Re: [PRR] moving parts on brass models Fellows- The only time working doors are an advantage to me is reefer roof hatches as these were often run open. In HO scale, most working parts are just extra trouble and expense. I would rather the brass builders concentrate their efforts on very accurate, scale detail work and good operational qualities. A $60.00 Kato, right out of the box, outperforms almost every brass engine in my collection, many costing ten times that amount. Nothing is more frustrating than an expensive brass model that won't run, shorts out, lousy trucks, can't mount kadees, won't run on practical model railroad radii, etc. If I want to model an open door on the occasional car, I can unsolder and move it before painting but as others have pointed out, prototype cars were rarely run without doors secured. While I believe separate details are good whenever practical on plastic or resin models and kits, I see no need for working parts. I prefer separate scale details for doors, grabs, brakes, hatches, etc. rather than molded on detail that requires cars to be sawed, stripped, scraped and sanded before redetailing and repainting. If one wants to build a model with doors open, it is easy if parts are molded individually (Red Caboose, Intermountain, Branchline) while very difficult with one piece bodies (Bowser, Accurail, Yardmaster, etc). I also prefer bodies be drilled or dimpled for separate grabirons or left off casting altogether. Older kits, state of the art for their day, (Train Min, Athearn, MDC, etc) required as much work to bring detail up to prototype modeling standards but the working doors always provided an added headache as door tracks and claws had to be totally reworked. Please leave working doors to toy train makers. Thanks for asking, Owen "Lewis J. Matt PhD" wrote: > > Friends: > > For me, I don't think operating doors for brass or plastic are that > critical. Cars that operate have the door glued shut, as I would rather see > scale size hardware. I usually remove the plastic components and make > smaller ones from scratch and glue the door in place, opened or closed. > > In the past, I have detailed a string of freight cars on a siding with easy > view from the aisle and modeled scale debris (strapping, brown paper and > lumber blocking etc) with workers, as if the cars were being cleaned out > after unloading. Very unusual and effective foreground scene. > > Lew > > "It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in > our air and water that are doing it." -- Al Gore, Vice President > > "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?" -- > Lee Iacocca > > "If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure." -- Bill Clinton, > President > > Synergistic Solutions: Alternative, Sustainable Waste Management and Energy > Systems. Advocating water for life through the integration of sustainable > agriculture, sustainable toilets, sustainable gray water systems and > sustainable green construction. > > Lewis J. Matt III, Ph.D., C.S.E.O., B.O.C.A.I. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Lane" > To: "PRR Modeling" ; "Steam Era Freight cars" > ; "PRR Talk" ; "Brass Collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 7:08 AM > Subject: [PRR] moving parts on brass models > > > Hi All, > > > > I am just trying to take a little poll on how important moving doors and > > opening hatches are for brass freight cars. I have heard "if I am paying > > $XXX.XX for a car, those door better open." > > > > The parts needed to make these items move and open actually make the car a > > little less accurate, because they have to be out of scale. To me, there > is > > nothing more aggravating then having doors slide and hatches hanging open > > while painting the car. I solder ALL of them shut. There is nothing in > there > > to see anyway. Then you can scratch up your weathering job too. > > > > How many of you have ever posed a scene loading a car? OK, so that makes 3 > > of you. Could you have done it with a plastic car? SURE can! > > > > Hit me with your thoughts please! > > > > Thanks > > Bill > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:01:32 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: [PRR] Inquirer article, Lorett Treese, Stackpole Books, and --------------000004030005020702000006 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lorett Treese is a Philadelphia-based author who is not so much a specialist on railroads as a writer who specializes in Philadelphia and Pa. topics. I believe the reason she was mentioned in Sunday's Inquirer story is that her book on railroading in Pennsylvania is freshly released by Stackpole Books of Mechanicsburg, Pa. The book is a widely cast collection of history, anecdotes, listings of tourist railroads, railroad museums, rails-to-trails sites, etc., and isn't focused on any single aspect of the topic. I've helped Stackpole with this and other railroad-related projects (more details below); the company is a major publisher of Pa. titles of all kinds, including such topics as the Lincoln Highway in Pa., Pennsylvania Diners, Pennsylvania Amusement Parks, Pennsylvania Courthouses, etc. With Treese's book, the company is beginning to expand more into railroad titles, and in the fall it will re-release Crossroads of Commerce: The PRR Calendar Art of Grif Teller. The original (1992) publisher, Great Eastern, is long out of business and the nearly 7,000 copies of the hardcover version are all but gone. Over the last year, Stackpole people and I met to discuss the idea of a new edition. The content is basically unchanged with the exception of minor corrections, and four pages of updated text, which includes the death of Teller (occurred four months after publication of the 1992 edition) and photos and accounts of the exhibitions of his PRR calendar and other art held since then; also, the establishment of the Teller gallery at the RRMofPa. This version will be in softcover, perfect-bound format, with a cover price of $29.95. Instead of the border-framed 1937 calendar painting "Ready to Go!", this version will use the 1947 calendar painting Working Partners, which shows a Q2 and an E7 at Marysville, Pa., in full-bleed (no borders) format. Note: Since the publisher is seeking new railroad titles, I'd encourage anyone with a manuscript idea (must be Pennsylvania-related and cannot be too localized) to contact editor Kyle Weaver there at kweaver@stackpolebooks.com. Or drop me a note if you have questions about working with this company. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. ------------------------------------------------------ Richard Wallis wrote: >Lin Bongaardt wrote: > > > >>List Members, >> >>For those of you who are able to obtain a copy, "The Philadelphia Inquirer" has a nice article in its Arts & Entertainment section about the PRRT&HS. It's in today's issue, Sunday 7/13/2003. >> >> >> >Anyone know more about the historian mentioned: Loretta Treese? Just >curious, and fascinated that the writer chose her to use as a major >resource for PRR history. > >Richard Wallis > > > >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> >Buy Ink Cartridges & Refill Kits for Your HP at Myinks.com >Free shipping on orders $50 or more to the US and Canada. >http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5706&lp=home/hp.asp >http://us.click.yahoo.com/arYXfA/.xWGAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM >---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > >"PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. > >To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = >PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > --------------000004030005020702000006 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lorett Treese is a Philadelphia-based author who is not so much a specialist on railroads as a writer who specializes in Philadelphia and Pa. topics. I believe the reason she was mentioned in Sunday's Inquirer story is that her book on railroading in Pennsylvania is freshly released by Stackpole Books of Mechanicsburg, Pa. The book is a widely cast collection of history, anecdotes, listings of tourist railroads, railroad museums, rails-to-trails sites, etc., and isn't focused on any single aspect of the topic. I've helped Stackpole with this and other railroad-related projects (more details below); the company is a major publisher of Pa. titles of all kinds, including such topics as the Lincoln Highway in Pa., Pennsylvania Diners, Pennsylvania Amusement Parks, Pennsylvania Courthouses, etc.

With Treese's book, the company is beginning to expand more into railroad titles, and in the fall it will re-release Crossroads of Commerce: The PRR Calendar Art of Grif Teller. The original (1992) publisher, Great Eastern, is long out of business and the nearly 7,000 copies of the hardcover version are all but gone. Over the last year, Stackpole people and I met to discuss the idea of a new edition. The content is basically unchanged with the exception of minor corrections, and four pages of updated text, which includes the death of Teller (occurred four months after publication of the 1992 edition) and photos and accounts of the exhibitions of his PRR calendar and other art held since then; also, the establishment of the Teller gallery at the RRMofPa.

This version will be in softcover, perfect-bound format, with a cover price of $29.95. Instead of the border-framed 1937 calendar painting "Ready to Go!", this version will use the 1947 calendar painting Working Partners, which shows a Q2 and an E7 at Marysville, Pa., in full-bleed (no borders) format.

Note: Since the publisher is seeking new railroad titles, I'd encourage anyone with a manuscript idea (must be Pennsylvania-related and cannot be too localized) to contact editor Kyle Weaver there at kweaver@stackpolebooks.com. Or drop me a note if you have questions about working with this company.

Dan Cupper
Harrisburg, Pa.

------------------------------------------------------
Richard Wallis wrote:
Lin Bongaardt wrote:

  
List Members,

For those of you who are able to obtain a copy, "The Philadelphia Inquirer" has a nice article in its Arts & Entertainment section about the PRRT&HS.  It's in today's issue, Sunday 7/13/2003.

    
Anyone know more about the historian mentioned: Loretta Treese?  Just 
curious, and fascinated that the writer chose her to use as a major 
resource for PRR history.

Richard Wallis



------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Buy Ink Cartridges & Refill Kits for Your HP at Myinks.com
Free shipping on orders $50 or more to the US and Canada.
http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5706&lp=home/hp.asp
http://us.click.yahoo.com/arYXfA/.xWGAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

"PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage.

To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to =
PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--------------000004030005020702000006-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:05:11 -0400 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Golden State run through ops Bob writes: > The biggest issue I have with Walthers is the skirting. I can't find photos of either type of prewar PRR car without skirts prior to the early 60's. In the case of the 4-4-2, I can't find any like the Walthers car, with the skirts removed and the upper berth windows blocked out. They are offering a 4-4-2 in Fleet of Modernism and in the Pullman two-tone gray. Hopefully they will use the full-skirted tooling for these cars. > > Bob Zoeller< Bob and all, THe photos are out there, especially of the 4-4-2 configuration you mention. It was published in the Bob L.... Book on sleeps. It is a soft cover book and I have a copy by my computer at home but I am at work, but will post the name and the author later. All I know is it was put together by the owner of Bob's Photos. It would be a good photo to publish on a web page but I don't think Bob would appreciate it as he would rather sell the book... 3^) Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:21:46 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Golden State run through ops From: Jerry Britton On Monday, July 14, 2003, at 02:05 PM, TGREGMRTN@aol.com wrote: > THe photos are out there, especially of the 4-4-2 configuration you > mention. It was published in the Bob L.... Book on sleeps. It is a > soft cover book and I have a copy by my computer at home but I am at > work, but will post the name and the author later. All I know is it > was put together by the owner of Bob's Photos. It would be a good > photo to publish on a web page but I don't think Bob would appreciate > it as he would rather sell the book... 3^) Robert Liljestrand & David Sweetland are doing the softcover PRR passenger car series you speak of. The first volume, on Coaches, was published via The Railroad Press. The second volume, on Sleepers, was published privately. Both are still available. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:23:06 -0500 From: Randy Williamson Subject: Re: [PRR] Golden State run through ops --=====================_152819382==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 02:05 PM 7/14/2003 -0400, TGREGMRTN@aol.com wrote: >It would be a good photo to publish on a web page but I don't think Bob >would appreciate it as he would rather sell the book... 3^) You could probably also purchase the photo from him. In speaking with him about putting some of his photos on a web site at one time he said no because that is his lively hood. Dayna Williamson --=====================_152819382==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 02:05 PM 7/14/2003 -0400, TGREGMRTN@aol.com wrote:
It would be a good photo to publish on a web page but I don't think Bob would appreciate it as he would rather sell the book... 3^)

You could probably also purchase the photo from him. In speaking with him about putting some of his photos on a web site at one time he said no because that is his lively hood.
Dayna Williamson --=====================_152819382==.ALT-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Golden State run through ops Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:49:17 -0500 > THe photos are out there, especially of the 4-4-2 configuration you mention. It was published in the Bob L.... Book on sleeps. It is a soft cover book and I have a copy by my computer at home but I am at work, but will post the name and the author later.> Greg Martin I have the same book and as you may have noted, I corrected my first post regarding the upper berth windows. The 4-4-2 fully deskirted but with upper berth windows not plated over (aka the Walthers version) is not in the book or anywhere else that I can find. I still run it and look the other way. I compound the felony because I picked a car name that would have been one of the earlier sleepers to run in the South Wind and might have possibly filled in on the Broadway after the war until all the 1948-49 equipment arrived. That car not only would have had full skirting but could conceivably have had the FOM scheme for a while after the war. Maybe I will use one of the upcoming FOM 4-4-2s for that overlap period. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] Golden State run through ops Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:58:51 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C34A10.0DFE07F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok, lets try again. At least by 1950, there was one car listed EVERY = OTHER day in this service. By 1950 PTT the car traveled Eastbound in the = General and Westbound in the Pennsylvania Limited. Bob Zoeller Just to clarify a point about the above, only one coast-to-coast 4-4-2 = car is listed per day in consist books and timetables, though I too have = seen the video of a train on the Curve with two Golden State = cars---dunno if this was an extra car due to a heavy traffic day . Bob Zoeller ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C34A10.0DFE07F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ok, lets try again.  At least by = 1950, there=20 was one car listed EVERY OTHER day in this service. By 1950 PTT the car = traveled=20 Eastbound in the General and Westbound in the Pennsylvania = Limited.  Bob=20 Zoeller

Just to clarify a point about the = above, only one=20 coast-to-coast 4-4-2 car is listed per day in consist books and = timetables,=20 though I too have seen the video of a train on the Curve with two = Golden State=20 cars---dunno if this was  an extra car due to a heavy traffic day = .
 
Bob = Zoeller
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C34A10.0DFE07F0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:57:12 -0400 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Golden State run through ops Thanks Jerry!!!!!!!! No being at home and having at hand is a b***h, but a book all PRR Modelers should have, did I say both I meant both! Greg Martin > Robert Liljestrand & David Sweetland are doing the softcover PRR > passenger car series you speak of. The first volume, on Coaches, was > published via The Railroad Press. The second volume, on > Sleepers, was > published privately. Both are still available. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:46:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] "NJ" Tower????? Greetings, Found a PRR form "K" clearance card in a time book I have. Its dated 1926. It was given to the engineman at "NJ". It reads "Proceed at H D J Q E D" "Report clear clear at "BY" Anyone have a clue where these towers are? Pittsburgh area???----Mark---- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:52:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] "NJ" Tower????? Hi Mark, There was an "NJ Tower" on the Alliance Branch in North Jackson,Ohio. "BY" Cabin was in Bayard Ohio. Info from 1923 CT 1000. Maybe some of the Lines West fans can chime in. Hope this helps. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:49:11 EDT Subject: [PRR] Empire Line --part1_30.434d6902.2c454437_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit During what time period did the Pennsy operate cars lettered "Empire Line," which I believe was one of the turn-of the-century fast freight arrangements? Thanks. Lee Rainey --part1_30.434d6902.2c454437_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable During what time period did the Pennsy operate cars le= ttered "Empire Line," which I believe was one of the turn-of the-century fas= t freight arrangements?

Thanks.

Lee Rainey --part1_30.434d6902.2c454437_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:58:49 -0400 Subject: [PRR] RailFest 2003 From: Jerry Britton Kudos to the Altoona Railroader's Memorial Museum! This year's RailFest already looks more organized than last year! I received the brochure in the mail yesterday, well ahead of the event, as it should be. Juniata Terminal's E8's will pull the excursions again. New this year are hot air balloon rides ABOVE Horseshoe Curve. Great idea!!! You can download the brochure from the museum's web site at http://www.railroadcity.com ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Empire Line Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:39:07 +0000 Lee Rainey asked: During what time period did the Pennsy operate cars lettered "Empire Line," which I believe was one of the turn-of the-century fast freight arrangements? According to Al Westerfield (http://users.multipro.com/westerfield/): "The Empire Line was a fast freight service operating over Lines East, LS&MS, CCC&StL, LE&W and connecting lines. Pennsy had over 500 cars in Empire Line service, running from 1902 into the early 1920's." Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrew S. Miller" Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:27:11 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] [Fwd: FW: Today: 80th Anniversary of Cab Signal] This from Constantinople ?! > > THE PAST IS PROLOGUE > > by Brother Pius, a Monk of Constantinople > > > > Eighty years ago, the Maitland Branch of our Juniata Valley Railroad > > served as a test bed for a revolutionary technology, when the first > > experimental cab signal apparatus was installed, tested and perfected on that line. > > > > Between 1890 and 1910, the Pennsylvania Railroad's traffic increased > > four-fold. By 1920, the Main Line had already been four-tracked. > > Although automatic block signaling had been installed, the Main Line was being > > operated under such conditions of traffic saturation that an additional > > two tracks were being planned. A study determined that the greatest factor > > impeding the more rapid movement of trains was fog... and the Juniata > > River valley was one of the worst areas for fog. Foggy conditions required > > enginemen to slow down and "feel" for the next signal, thus delaying the > > whole parade of trains. The solution was to mount the signal right in the > > engine cab, where the engineman had a close up view, all the time. > > > > On July 11, 1923, a primitive and experimental version of the cab signal > > system was installed on all 43.5 miles of the single track "Sunbury & > > Lewistown Branch" of the Railroad's Sunbury Division, extending between > > Selinsgrove Jct and Lewistown. The "S&L" operated about twenty-five trains > > daily, using fourteen passing sidings, with eleven open telegraph offices > > delivering train orders telegraphed by the dispatcher in Sunbury. Double > > heading was frequent. Besides passenger trains, the S&L carried large > > amounts of Wilkes-Barre anthracite coal moving westward, New York-bound > > perishables moving to the Lehigh Valley RR at Mount Carmel, Pa, plus > > freight moving to Buffalo. > > > > The S&L was the perfect place to test a new technology. The line offered > > heavy traffic volumes, but should the experiment involve complications, the > > Main Line operation would not be sabotaged. For a two year period, the new > > system was tested. The "superiority of trains" (class, right and schedules, > > supplemented by train orders) was withdrawn as a method of operation, and > > trains ran by continuous, inductive cab signal indications. For the first > > time, the vacuum tube was used outside the communications industry. Between > > passing sidings, trains ran only on the indication of the signal in the > > engine cab, without wayside signals. > > > > The cab signal had three aspects: "A" for authorized speed, "S" for Slow > > Speed, and "R" for restricted speed. A warning whistle sounded whenever the > > cab signal changed to a more restrictive aspect, and if the engineman did > not reduce speed, a penalty application of the brakes occurred. > > > > One of the more interesting problems solved during the experiment involved > > the frequency of the alternating current driving the system. Commercial 60 > > cycle AC was used at first, but it was found that an improperly grounded > > motor in a nearby feed mill caused the cab signal to give improper > > indications. Therefore, the energy powering the system was changed to 100 > > cycle current - which remains the standard today. > > > > After two years of experimenting and perfecting the technology, the > > equipment was removed from the S&L and operations returned to the old > > "timetable-train order" and manual block system. But the PRR immediately > > placed an order for enough of the new cab signal apparatus to equip its > > entire New York-Washington-Pittsburgh system. The logjam of trains running > > slowly through the fog was broken, and six-tracking the Main Line was not > > necessary. The Franklin Institute awarded its Elliott Cresson Medal for > > invention. Even today, one can find some of the old, experimental signal > > foundations along the Juniata Valley RR. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges & Refill Kits for Your HP at Myinks.com Free shipping on orders $50 or more to the US and Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5706&lp=home/hp.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/arYXfA/.xWGAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:27:11 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] [Fwd: FW: Today: 80th Anniversary of Cab Signal] This from Constantinople ?! > > THE PAST IS PROLOGUE > > by Brother Pius, a Monk of Constantinople > > > > Eighty years ago, the Maitland Branch of our Juniata Valley Railroad > > served as a test bed for a revolutionary technology, when the first > > experimental cab signal apparatus was installed, tested and perfected on that line. > > > > Between 1890 and 1910, the Pennsylvania Railroad's traffic increased > > four-fold. By 1920, the Main Line had already been four-tracked. > > Although automatic block signaling had been installed, the Main Line was being > > operated under such conditions of traffic saturation that an additional > > two tracks were being planned. A study determined that the greatest factor > > impeding the more rapid movement of trains was fog... and the Juniata > > River valley was one of the worst areas for fog. Foggy conditions required > > enginemen to slow down and "feel" for the next signal, thus delaying the > > whole parade of trains. The solution was to mount the signal right in the > > engine cab, where the engineman had a close up view, all the time. > > > > On July 11, 1923, a primitive and experimental version of the cab signal > > system was installed on all 43.5 miles of the single track "Sunbury & > > Lewistown Branch" of the Railroad's Sunbury Division, extending between > > Selinsgrove Jct and Lewistown. The "S&L" operated about twenty-five trains > > daily, using fourteen passing sidings, with eleven open telegraph offices > > delivering train orders telegraphed by the dispatcher in Sunbury. Double > > heading was frequent. Besides passenger trains, the S&L carried large > > amounts of Wilkes-Barre anthracite coal moving westward, New York-bound > > perishables moving to the Lehigh Valley RR at Mount Carmel, Pa, plus > > freight moving to Buffalo. > > > > The S&L was the perfect place to test a new technology. The line offered > > heavy traffic volumes, but should the experiment involve complications, the > > Main Line operation would not be sabotaged. For a two year period, the new > > system was tested. The "superiority of trains" (class, right and schedules, > > supplemented by train orders) was withdrawn as a method of operation, and > > trains ran by continuous, inductive cab signal indications. For the first > > time, the vacuum tube was used outside the communications industry. Between > > passing sidings, trains ran only on the indication of the signal in the > > engine cab, without wayside signals. > > > > The cab signal had three aspects: "A" for authorized speed, "S" for Slow > > Speed, and "R" for restricted speed. A warning whistle sounded whenever the > > cab signal changed to a more restrictive aspect, and if the engineman did > not reduce speed, a penalty application of the brakes occurred. > > > > One of the more interesting problems solved during the experiment involved > > the frequency of the alternating current driving the system. Commercial 60 > > cycle AC was used at first, but it was found that an improperly grounded > > motor in a nearby feed mill caused the cab signal to give improper > > indications. Therefore, the energy powering the system was changed to 100 > > cycle current - which remains the standard today. > > > > After two years of experimenting and perfecting the technology, the > > equipment was removed from the S&L and operations returned to the old > > "timetable-train order" and manual block system. But the PRR immediately > > placed an order for enough of the new cab signal apparatus to equip its > > entire New York-Washington-Pittsburgh system. The logjam of trains running > > slowly through the fog was broken, and six-tracking the Main Line was not > > necessary. The Franklin Institute awarded its Elliott Cresson Medal for > > invention. Even today, one can find some of the old, experimental signal > > foundations along the Juniata Valley RR. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] P70 coach numbering Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:31:11 +0000 I have Tilp and Blardones book but there is nothing about how the P70's were numbered. Can anybody shed any light on this for me. I need to number my coaches for clocker service. Thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:57:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] RailFest 2003 were is 1361 Still no K4 !!!!!!???? I've been hearing it would be pulling the excursion trains at railfest for the last 3 or 4 years. Maybe Steamtown should just reassembled it,paint it and return it to the museum as a static display. What is the date there giving these days for 1361s return to service?-Mark- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:19:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] "NJ" Tower????? Dave. This engineman lived in E.Conemaugh(Johnstown)though. I assumed he would have worked the Pitts Div. would enginemen work outside there Div??? The signalmans writing is some what poor. I maybe reading it wrong. "NJ" maybe "NG. " H D J Q E D" maybe "HD" "J or G/Q or O" "ED" The only one that i'm 90% sure of is "BY" e-mail message =A0=A0Greetings, Found a PRR form "K" clearance card in a time book I have. Its dated 1926. It was given to the engineman at "NJ". It reads "Proceed at H D J Q E D" "Report clear clear at "BY" Anyone have a clue where these towers are? Pittsburgh area???----Mark---- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] RailFest 2003 were is 1361 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:07:41 -0400 Mark, Let me grab this ebfore we float on this ever so common tangent. The K4s steam restoration program at Steamtown has been extended another year to 2004. Personally I would add another year give-or-take on this date. Secondly, as you would recall two months ago when someone announced about the Ohio Central Steam program being terminated I would imagine insurance costs would be way to much for the Altoona Museum to handle. One last thing, Mark, like all good things rebuilding the K4s will take time. The state of Pennsylvania is putting what funds into it that it can. If you didn't know, the PRR K4s is t©H ×fficial state steam locomtive of Pennsylvania. For now, I'm content having two restored E-8's pulling the excursion train. Definately is better for the spf soul than a P42. Don't complain for now unless you wnat to pay for it. If steamtown doesn't take thier time putting the big bowser kit back together a mistake could be made that could desroy the K4s in the long run. That statement is purely skeptical but god forbid it could come true if this project isn't enacted with the best amount of patience and caution. Welcome to the 21st Century. Hope this calms you down. I don't know for sure, but you can probably go to the Steamtown Website and contribute to the K4s fund. Yours in railroading, John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:31:28 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] "NJ" Tower????? --part1_15b.2185e1ab.2c45e8d0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark. Pgh. Div. ETT No. 4, 9-26-1926. Pg 6. This is the Turtle Creek Branch although there is no mention of "NJ" BY just west of Blackburn HD is Lyons Run Br Jct JQ is Newlinsburg ED may be EP which is Export There is however a "UJ" between "SZ" (Trafford) and Pitcairn. Pat McKinney --part1_15b.2185e1ab.2c45e8d0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark.
           Pgh. Div. ETT N= o. 4, 9-26-1926. Pg 6. This is the Turtle Creek Branch although there is no=20= mention of "NJ"
BY just west of Blackburn
HD is Lyons Run Br Jct
JQ is Newlinsburg
ED may be EP which is Export
There is however a "UJ" between "SZ" (Trafford) and Pitcairn.

Pat McKinney
 --part1_15b.2185e1ab.2c45e8d0_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:32:45 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Empire Line --part1_1cc.dc5ca13.2c45e91d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/15/2003 8:46:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, b.hom@att.net writes: > Pennsy had over 500 cars in Empire Line > service, running from 1902 into the early 1920's." > Perfect! Gives me a great excuse to build the kit I just required -- I have an 19-aughts narrow gauge diorama and this will do nicely on the interchange track. Lee Rainey --part1_1cc.dc5ca13.2c45e91d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 7/15/2003 8:46:08 AM Eastern Standa= rd Time, b.hom@att.net writes:


Pennsy had over 500 cars in Emp= ire Line
service, running from 1902 into the early 1920's."


Perfect! Gives me a great excuse to build the kit I just required -- I have=20= an 19-aughts narrow gauge diorama and this will do nicely on the interchange= track.

Lee Rainey --part1_1cc.dc5ca13.2c45e91d_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:53:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] "NJ" Tower????? Hello Mark, Yes, enginemen do work outside thier home divisions if they are qualified. Enginemen from NYC and the freight yards in North New Jersey take trains back and fourth to Harrisburg/Enola...and thats passing through two separate divisions. If this engineman lived in E. Conemaugh, he may have pick if this train at Pitcarin or Conway and worked west. I too collect PRR enginemen time books. Getting back to NJ Tower, I went to the 1923 CT1000 and I don't see a "NG" tower listed. Hope this helps. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] RailFest 2003 were is 1361 Guys...... Lets hope that someone has cut the trees at Horseshoe Curve so if and when 1361 does find her way back to Altoona, we'll be able to see her! The 150th anniversary of the opening of Horseshoe Curve is one year away. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:17:43 -0400 From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Subject: Re: [PRR] P70 coach numbering ndbprr, P70- Coach-70' inside length #820-23,825-832,834-35,837-877,879-882,885-86,912-1099-W/O seats 88-Non-A/C P70- Coach- #824,833,836,878,883,884,887-911-Walkover seats 86 -Non-A/C P70- Coach-ACF-1923 #1046-Walkover seats 80-Non-A/C- one of a kind- Gone by 1953 x P70- Coach #1227-1268,1270-1305-Walkover seats 88-Non-A/C P70- Coach #1269-Walkover seats 86- one of a kind-Non-A/C P70- Coach #1309-10,13-26,28-31,33,36-45,48-74,1378-1483-Walkover seats 88-Non-A/C P70- Coach #1327,1334-35,46-47,75-77-Walkover seats 86-Non-A/C P70- Coach #1332-Walkover seats 84- one of a kind-Non-A/C P70- Coach #1487-93,1498-1564-Walkover seats 86-Non-A/C P70- Coach #1494-96-Walkover seats 86-Non-A/C P70- Coach #1844-69 -Walkover seats 88-Non-A/C P70- Coach #1889-1900 -Walkover seats 88-Non-A/C P70- Coach #3101-3181 -Walkover seats 88-Non-A/C P70- Coach #3183-3197-Walkover seats 86-Non-A/C P70- Coach #3287-3397 -Walkover seats 88-Non-A/C P70- Coach #3986-3995-Walkover seats 88-Non-A/C P70R-Coach-ACS- #3400-27,3429,3431-60,3462-87,3489-99-Walkover seats 80-Ice A/C P70R-Coach #3428,61,88,3528,58,61-Walkover seats 76-Ice A/C P70R-Coach-ACS-1915 #3500-20,3522-24,3526-27,3529,3549-57,3559-60,3562-99-W/O seats 80-Ice A/C P70R-Coach #3604-3611,3613-Walkover seats 80-Ice A/C P70R-Coach-Scheme 2-Clerestory roof-1936 #3521-Walkover seats 60- one of a kind-Ice A/C P70R-Coach-Scheme 1-Clerestory roof-1936 #3525-Walkover seats 60- one of a kind -Ice A/C P70R-Coach #3651-3749,3757-73 -Walkover seats 80-Ice A/C P70R-Coach-"Penn Ventilator" w/ 12" 2-speed 900 CFM Fan. #3413,3519,3596-99,3611,13,06,08,09,13-19,22,30,34,36,44-55,3757-60. -W/O seats 80-Ice A/C P70R-Deluxe Coach- #3600-3603-Individ. seats 80-Ice A/C P70R-Deluxe Coach- #7203-7208-Individ. seats 60-Ice A/C P70R-Deluxe Coach- #7209-Individ. seats 86- one of a kind -Ice A/C P70R-Deluxe Coach- #7243-7245-Individ. seats 86 -Ice A/C P70R-Deluxe Coach- #7539-7670-Individ. seats 86 -Ice A/C P70R-Deluxe Coach- #7742-7795-Individ. seats 86-Ice A/C P70R-Deluxe Coach- #9860,9864-Individ. seats 86-Ice A/C P70BR- Coach, Buff, Parlor #3620-21- Seats 42- Reblt. from #7148-49- Seats 48 P70dR-Coach-(Partitioned) #3530-31,3533-42,3544-45,3547-48- Seats 80 P70dR-Coach-(Partitioned) #3532,3543,3546- Seats 80 P70dR-Coach-(Partitioned) #3614-19,3622-43- Seats 80 P70eR Coach-Scheme 4 #1497-rotate-recline seats 72- one of a kind-EM A/C P70eR Coach-Scheme 3 #1735-rotate-recline seats 42- one of a kind-Ice A/C P70eR-Scheme 5 #3243-rotating seats 76- one of a kind-EM A/C P70eR Coach-Scheme 3 #3244-rotate-recline seats 42- one of a kind-Ice A/C P70eR Coach-Scheme 5-ACS-Arch roof-1936 #1774-Rotating seats 76- one of a kind-EM A/C P70fR Coach- Scheme 6 #1306-Walkover seats 84- one of a kind-EM A/C P70fR Coach- Scheme 6-Blt.1908-16 as P70. #3774-3935-Reblt. 1937-41-Walkover seats 84-EM A/C P70fa Coach- Blt.1909 as P70. #1311-12-Walkover seats 80-no A/C P70fa Coach-Blt.1909 as P70. #3206,3208-Walkover seats 80 -No A/C P70faR Coach- Scheme 6-Blt.1909 as P70. #3200-05,3207,3209-3229-Walkover seats 80-EM A/C P70faR Coach-Scheme 6- Blt.1908-14 as P70. #3936-3984-Walkover seats 80-EM A/C P70fbR Coach-1926-28 as P70.-Clerestory Roof- Reblt. 1948-52 #1600-16,18-22,26-36,38,48,52-54,58-65,72,74,75,79,83,88,92,95,98-W/O seats 72 P70fbR Coach-1926-28 as P70.-Clerestory Roof- Reblt. 1948-52 #1705,06,09,12,16-19,21,22,24,27,28,33,36-73,1775-1814-Seats 72-Use MDC#2935 P70fbR Coach-1926-28 as P70.-Clerestory Roof- Reblt. 1948-52 #1617,23-25,43,56,71,73,76,80,82,89,93,96,1709,21,33,40,41,42,44-Seats 72 P70fbR Coach-1926-28 as P70. Reblt. 1948-52 to Arch Roof #1637,39-42,44-47,49-51,55,57,66-70,77,78,81,84-87,90,91,94,97,99-Seats 72 P70fbR Coach-1926-28 as P70. Reblt. 1948-52 to Arch Roof #1700-04,07,08,10,11,13-15,20,23,25,26,29-32,34-Seats 72-Use MDC#2935,KD wh. P70fcR- Coach-Lunch counter-Fluted Sides #1150- one of a kind- Seats 56 P70gR Coach-Scheme 4- Blt.1908-11 as P70-Reblt.1937 #4360-4399-rotate-recline seats 68-EM A/C P70gsR Coach-Blt.1909-16 as P70-Reblt.1939 #4310-4359-rotate-recline seats 68 -EM A/C P70gsR Coach-Scheme 4-1908-13 as P70. Reblt. ACS 1939 #4194-4243-rotate-recline seats 68-EM A/C P70hR Coach- Scheme 6 #3230-3242-Walkover seats 80 -Ice A/C P70kR- Coach-Scheme 4- 1908-13 as P70. Reblt.1940. #4244-4309-rotate-recline seats 56 -EM A/C P70kR- Coach-Scheme 4- 1908-13 as P70. Reblt.1940 #4269,71,73,4279-81,85,86,87,89,90,93,96,4306-Ptd./East Wind-Assign./B&M-1940-42 P76- Coach- Blt as #7525- "Lancaster"- Blt.1929 #829- Conv. to P76 coach #829-1943-Walkover seats 76-Non-A/C -one of a kind Hope this helps. Regards, Eddie ndbprr@att.net wrote: > > I have Tilp and Blardones book but there is nothing about how the P70's were > numbered. Can anybody shed any light on this for me. I need to number my > coaches for clocker service. Thanks. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:40:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] "NJ" Tower Clue Thanks Dave and Pat. I think Pat is on the right track( Ha-Ha) with this form "K" being from the Turtle creek Branch. Anyway I checked the Enginemans time book for the date on the form "K". He was operating loco #2843. maybe someone knows where this loco was assigned? I'm going to guess it was a K4 or L1. Some other interesting notes from that days trip.9-3-26 Time allowed----9hr-50min Pay for the trip--11.65$- Big money in those days. "RATE" this is interesting.I going to assume there were different pay rates for different trains. This trip was marked:"Pud" Anyone have any clue what that means????? There are other entries for different days for rate. Some seem obvious like "Frt" or "YD"But, what Do "I","PI","RYD" mean? Dave your the Time book man. Have you seen these abbreviations in the RATE column? Do you know what they mean?----Mark------ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:40:18 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] "NJ" Tower????? --part1_117.266f1f98.2c45f8f2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave. Don't forget that the CT1000 does not always show interlocking towers. Listing of stations and sidings,yes.The best place is a ETT. Pat McKinney --part1_117.266f1f98.2c45f8f2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dave.
     Don't forget that the CT1000 does not always show i= nterlocking towers. Listing of stations and sidings,yes.The best place is a=20= ETT.

Pat McKinney --part1_117.266f1f98.2c45f8f2_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:53:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Trees at HS curve Last years tree project was a step in the right direction. Hopefully the new people running the curve and the museum will finish the job. My guess is that it will be like the K4 project and the view at the curve will be completely obstructed again in a few years--Mark-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:00:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] "NJ" Tower????? Thanks Pat. I never thought to look at an "ETT" I dont think I have one from 1926. The ones I have are from the 50's. Would that make any difference?? Also the form"K" say Blockstations not towers if that means anything.---Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "SHM" Subject: [PRR] old lines west roads Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:12:29 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C4_01C34B15.CC826580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all... I'm doing a little research for a relative. I was retracing a train ride from Washington, DC to Yellow Springs Ohio in 1862. So far i have the B&O to Baltimore where they crossed town to the Northern Central >From the NC in Baltimore to the PRR in Harrisburg. Then on the PRR from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh. Here i lose track. I pick up the trail again in Columbus with the=20 Little Miami RR to Xenia and on to Yellow Springs. My question is this. What predecessor "Lines West" "Pan handle" roads ran between Pittsburg and Columbus in 1862 via Stubensville, Oh. I do realize that what ever they were they might have run on=20 trackage rights on the P,FW&C RR out of=20 Pittsburgh to Stubenville . At first i thought there might have been one road between Columbus and Pittsburgh, but that was later. It seems that there were two early roads between them. Thanks in advance Hank Mummert ------=_NextPart_000_00C4_01C34B15.CC826580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello all...
 
  I'm doing a little research for = a relative.=20 I was retracing
a train ride from Washington, DC to = Yellow=20 Springs
Ohio in 1862. So far i have the B&O = to=20 Baltimore
where they crossed town to the Northern = Central
From the NC in Baltimore to the PRR in=20 Harrisburg.
Then on the PRR from Harrisburg to=20 Pittsburgh.
 
Here i lose track.
 
I pick up the trail again in Columbus = with the=20
Little Miami RR to Xenia and on to = Yellow=20 Springs.
 
My question is this.
What predecessor "Lines West" "Pan=20 handle"
roads ran between Pittsburg and=20 Columbus
in 1862 via Stubensville, Oh. I do=20 realize
that what ever they were they might = have run on=20
trackage rights on the P,FW&C RR = out of=20
Pittsburgh to Stubenville = .
 
At first i thought there might have = been one=20 road
between Columbus and Pittsburgh, but = that=20 was
later. It seems that there were two = early=20 roads
between them.
 
          &nbs= p;            = ;           =20 Thanks in advance
          &nbs= p;            = ;           =20 Hank Mummert
------=_NextPart_000_00C4_01C34B15.CC826580-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:11:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] "NJ" Tower????? Pat, Your right about the ETT's. Problem is that I never have them handy. My CT 1000 was was right next to me at the time. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:22:07 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] old lines west roads In a message dated 7/15/03 8:12:49 PM, bubbles@visi.net writes: << I'm doing a little research for a relative. I was retracing a train ride from Washington, DC to Yellow Springs Ohio in 1862. So far i have the B&O to Baltimore where they crossed town to the Northern Central >From the NC in Baltimore to the PRR in Harrisburg. Then on the PRR from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh. >> Hank - I can't answer your question but have a suggestion if you want to embellish your research. 1862 was, of course, in the middle of the Civil War. There is an outfit, "www.guildpress.com", that publishes a CD-ROM that contains all the military correspondence of the War. The disk is searchable. I did a quick and dirty on Steubenville and got a lot of hits. Here is one: ----- WAR DEPARTMENT, Washington City, D.C., September 3, 1] 19 His Excellency Governor TOD, Columbus, Ohio: List of provost-marshals received. The Secretary does not propose to appoint so many. No more than two have been appointed to a State hitherto. He suggests six for Ohio--say one at Cleveland, Toledo, Cincinnati, Portsmouth, Steubenville, and Columbus each, or in those parts of the State. C. P. BUCKINGHAM, Brigadier-General and Assistant Adjutant-General. -------------- My bet is that in later messages, there will be one from CPB to the Ohio governor authorizing and identifying a provost marshall for Steubenville. The disk is about $70 and is wonderful if you research this period. Several years back, I researched Lincoln's funeral train and was able to build the schedule and actual times from the messages that the honor guards officers sent the war department arriving and leaving various cities. Since the railroad was such a key element of the war there are many, many references. Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:30:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] RailFest 2003 where is 1361 Lets hope that Norfolk Southern will be kind enough to allow PRR K4 1361 to operate from Altoona up to the Curve. Don't know if that will happen but it sure is a nice thought! Or maybe posing the restored PRR E units on the Curve just like they did in 1954. Dreams do come true from time to time. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:53:39 EDT Subject: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve --part1_a4.3a34e954.2c46b2e3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is there a web site with a view of the results of the tree cutting at the curve? Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 --part1_a4.3a34e954.2c46b2e3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Is there a web site with a view of the results=20= of the tree cutting at the curve?

Evan Leisey
RCT&HS  346 --part1_a4.3a34e954.2c46b2e3_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:23:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Here we go again! List, Seems like that practice of releasing duplicate items again is alive and well. Most heard of Athearn releasing the Challengers with the same capability as BrowadwayLimited stuff which is a loco able to run DCC or the regular way. I just got a note that Lionel, yep, Lionel, is re-entering the HO market with, yep, you got it, Ho Scale Challengers with full sound and DCC or regular running. Too bad Lionel didn't choose an HO J1 as their Lionel Scale J1 in the standard size is quite impressive. Sure would have been nice to see it reduced to HO. Maybe it is in their future yet to coincide with the release of BL!'s J1? That seems to be how it works ya know....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:41:33 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Here we go again! From: Jerry Britton On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 11:23 AM, Gary Mittner wrote: > Seems like that practice of releasing duplicate items again is > alive and well. Most heard of Athearn releasing the Challengers with > the > same capability as BrowadwayLimited stuff which is a loco able to run > DCC or the regular way. I just got a note that Lionel, yep, Lionel, is > re-entering the HO market with, yep, you got it, Ho Scale Challengers > with full sound and DCC or regular running. Too bad Lionel didn't > choose > an HO J1 as their Lionel Scale J1 in the standard size is quite > impressive. Sure would have been nice to see it reduced to HO. Maybe it > is in their future yet to coincide with the release of BL!'s J1? That > seems to be how it works ya know....Gary Duplication? Yes. Quality? I doubt it. I think BLI will stand out as the best, with Lionel being "an option" in third. Athearn will likely produce a "decent" version and place second. Just my early thoughts. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Here we go again! Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:46:58 +0000 The Trains.com web site had an unpainted small picture on the web site yesterday. It may still be there. As near as I could tell it is typical Lionel tinplate die casting with all the piping cast into the boiler jacket. If the picture was accurate it would appear they won't be in the HO business for long as it will definitely be a substandard although heavy engine. At last with the Bowser you can add the details. You have to wonder what drives the thinking of some of these decision makers. > List, > > Seems like that practice of releasing duplicate items again is > alive and well. Most heard of Athearn releasing the Challengers with the > same capability as BrowadwayLimited stuff which is a loco able to run > DCC or the regular way. I just got a note that Lionel, yep, Lionel, is > re-entering the HO market with, yep, you got it, Ho Scale Challengers > with full sound and DCC or regular running. Too bad Lionel didn't choose > an HO J1 as their Lionel Scale J1 in the standard size is quite > impressive. Sure would have been nice to see it reduced to HO. Maybe it > is in their future yet to coincide with the release of BL!'s J1? That > seems to be how it works ya know....Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work! > > PRR K4s Loco Pics: > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ > > PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > > and...... > > PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] Here we go again! Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:50:55 +0000 Gary2-ra the list: I would not be surprised if both the Lionel and Genesis Challengers will be built by the same factory in China. Ted _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:53:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Here we go again! Norm, List I just checked the Lionel site out for pics. They have 3 fairly closeup shots. If this is indeed an HO version shown and not their regular line, it looks pretty good. Check it out. It also says that this is the first in a series. A PRR J1 is a possibilty afterall?.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:01:55 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Hot air Balloon at RailFest From: Jerry Britton Yesterday I mentioned that tethered hot air balloon rides will be featured on Horseshoe Curve for RailFest this year. This is an awesome new idea and kudos go out to the BoD of the museum for implementing it. Perhaps it was inspired by the PRR-talk mention of a tethered balloon ride over ZOO in Philadelphia back in May. No matter. Excellent idea! If successful, perhaps another tethered balloon site could be implemented right at the museum. You'd be able to see well past SLOPE to the west and who knows how far to the east. Would make for some excellent photography! Now if only I could get about 300' up at Cresson! (But maybe that's why I model N scale!) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:22:49 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] Here we go again! What's the probability that the Lionel Challenger is a just a relabled BLI loco? Lionel's last foray into HO was a collection of relabled stuff. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== mittner@webtv.net wrote: > List, > > Seems like that practice of releasing duplicate items again is > alive and well. Most heard of Athearn releasing the Challengers with the > same capability as BrowadwayLimited stuff which is a loco able to run > DCC or the regular way. I just got a note that Lionel, yep, Lionel, is > re-entering the HO market with, yep, you got it, Ho Scale Challengers > with full sound and DCC or regular running. Too bad Lionel didn't choose > an HO J1 as their Lionel Scale J1 in the standard size is quite > impressive. Sure would have been nice to see it reduced to HO. Maybe it > is in their future yet to coincide with the release of BL!'s J1? That > seems to be how it works ya know....Gary > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work! > > PRR K4s Loco Pics: > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ > > PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > > and...... > > PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> > Buy Ink Cartridges & Refill Kits for Your HP at Myinks.com > Free shipping on orders $50 or more to the US and Canada. > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5706&lp=home/hp.asp > http://us.click.yahoo.com/arYXfA/.xWGAA/ySSFAA/9MtolB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > Sharing and enjoying our memories and materials and methods to better reproduce the PRR in miniature ! > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > PRR-Modeling-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:23:42 -0400 From: Jeff Warner Subject: [PRR] lionel HO All: A better question may be will they put any more effort into being correct in HO scale than they do in O... I, for one, am not looking into an HO version of a UP Challenger with every paint scheme they can think of... I know they say "authentic paint schemes" on their web site, but, based on what they do in O scale, it will be on an incorrect model. I cringe everytime I see the Western Maryland painted UP challenger in O scale at a local hobby shop. It's about as wrong as you can get... Hopefully, Lionel will make more of an effort to be correct (but I personally doubt it). Jeff Warner ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:12:16 -0400 Subject: [PRR] X47a Box Cars From: Jerry Britton This month InterMountain is offering an N scale 50' ARA single door box car in PRR Shadow Keystone (their web site incorrectly labels it as NYC). Marty McGuirk tells me it is lettered as an X47a, which is a 50' single door car. Wondering about roster data, I checked Rob's site and found that X47's and X47a's do not appear on the Oct. 1953 ORER, but they do appear in large numbers as of the Oct. 1958 ORER when there were 317 X47's and 399 X47a's. The January 1954 ORER on my "Pennsylvania Railroad in 1954" CD-ROM shows 22 X47's and no X47a's, leading me to believe they were constructed after this time. The tracings on Rob's site have references to 1953 (X47) and 1957 (X47a) but, being handwritten, don't lend any "officialness" to those dates. Anyone know when the X47a's started appearing? I suspect they will be too late for this September 1954 modeler! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry "Buton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach" Subject: RE: [PRR] lionel HO Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:18:52 -0400 After taking the time to look at the Challenger, I think that it looks like Lionel is making a first rate attempt at an HO scale engine. While I will not be interested in the engine, it does offer promise of more to come. As far as what Lionel does in offering a Challenger in Western Maryland colors, that is typical of the O Gauge market in general. Most companies offer the engine in its correct color scheme and then several others. The reason is that Lionel could probably not make money by making a correct WM 4-6-6-4, but by offering a UP challenger in those colors, they will sell some to WM fans. Also, you should note that this is in their semi-scale line if my memory serves me right. (which is not always the case) If you have seen Lionel latest O scale engines such as the Berkshire or even better the Y6b, you would realize that Lionel is putting a lot into making a very detailed engine. Besides if you don't like the fantasy painrasbheme and they do offer the correct, then buy only the correct schemes. The only time the fantasy schemes bother me is if they don't have the correct ones too. The Challenger does not look like something that would come from BLI. It appears to have more metal parts and more separate details. This does come at a price. Also, Lionel does their own sound and does not use QSI who has a relationship with BLI. Judging by the sample pictures, which are not always an indication, this should be better than the Athearn challenger if the Mikado and Pacific are any indications. My hope is that Lionel will not duplicate BLI or anyone else when it comes to Pennsy engines. Since BLI has the J1a coming out next year, how about a S1 or S2 from Lionel or something like a H9 or N1? I would prefer the H9 come from someone who is a little less costly like Bachmann, Life-Like, BLI, or Rivarossi as you can't have just one or two of them. Eric --- Eric Lauterbach --- ealauterbach@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:23:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve --0-1733433040-1058379813=:72624 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I road Amtrak around the curve back in June, both ways. Trees were cut in vicinity of the park where the Geep is displayed but were pretty bad the rest of the way around the curve. Ron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! --0-1733433040-1058379813=:72624 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
I road Amtrak around the curve back in June, both ways.  Trees were cut in vicinity of the park where the Geep is displayed but were pretty bad the rest of the way around the curve.
 
Ron

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SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! --0-1733433040-1058379813=:72624-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] lionel HO Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:31:34 -0400 So, H9's are like potato chips? You can't be satisfied with just one. ; Subject: Re: [PRR] old lines west roads --0-902754482-1058380271=:16661 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hank Sorry, I don't have my reference materials in front of me here at this computer, but will confirm that the Panhandle main line between Pittsburgh and Steubenville was not complete in 1862; main hold up was the Dinsmore Tunnel, which wasn't completed until 1865. Not sure if the Yellow Creek line on the west bank of the Ohio was completed in 1862, will have to check my references and respond with more info if available tomorrow. Hope this helps somewhat. Ron Di Orio SHM wrote: Hello all... I'm doing a little research for a relative. I was retracing a train ride from Washington, DC to Yellow Springs Ohio in 1862. So far i have the B&O to Baltimore where they crossed town to the Northern Central >From the NC in Baltimore to the PRR in Harrisburg. Then on the PRR from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh. Here i lose track. I pick up the trail again in Columbus with the Little Miami RR to Xenia and on to Yellow Springs. My question is this. What predecessor "Lines West" "Pan handle" roads ran between Pittsburg and Columbus in 1862 via Stubensville, Oh. I do realize that what ever they were they might have run on trackage rights on the P,FW&C RR out of Pittsburgh to Stubenville . At first i thought there might have been one road between Columbus and Pittsburgh, but that was later. It seems that there were two early roads between them. Thanks in advance Hank Mummert --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! --0-902754482-1058380271=:16661 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Hank
 
Sorry, I don't have my reference materials in front of me here at this computer, but will confirm that the Panhandle main line between Pittsburgh and Steubenville was not complete in 1862;  main hold up was the Dinsmore Tunnel, which wasn't completed until 1865.
 
Not sure if the Yellow Creek line on the west bank of the Ohio was completed in 1862, will have to check my references and respond with more info if available tomorrow.  Hope this helps somewhat.
 
Ron Di Orio

SHM <bubbles@visi.net> wrote:
Hello all...
 
  I'm doing a little research for a relative. I was retracing
a train ride from Washington, DC to Yellow Springs
Ohio in 1862. So far i have the B&O to Baltimore
where they crossed town to the Northern Central
From the NC in Baltimore to the PRR in Harrisburg.
Then on the PRR from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh.
 
Here i lose track.
 
I pick up the trail again in Columbus with the
Little Miami RR to Xenia and on to Yellow Springs.
 
My question is this.
What predecessor "Lines West" "Pan handle"
roads ran between Pittsburg and Columbus
in 1862 via Stubensville, Oh. I do realize
that what ever they were they might have run on
trackage rights on the P,FW&C RR out of
Pittsburgh to Stubenville .
 
At first i thought there might have been one road
between Columbus and Pittsburgh, but that was
later. It seems that there were two early roads
between them.
 
                                   Thanks in advance
                                   Hank Mummert

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SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! --0-902754482-1058380271=:16661-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:36:33 +0000 The obvious solution is to run steam around horseshoe. Those hot cinders will kill anything but it will need frequent applications. (just a hint of a solution for NS to consider) It is going to be a losing battle without agent orange or some other serious vegetation killer. I can't even keep my backyard trimmed let alone the side of a mountain. One has to wonder about erosion possibilities if the area is cleared seriously. > I road Amtrak around the curve back in June, both ways. Trees were cut in > vicinity of the park where the Geep is displayed but were pretty bad the rest of > the way around the curve. > > Ron > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:04:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] were is 1361-still a mess The museum is putting out this info through its news letter and member meetings. I attended the annual meeting in 2000. The head man at the museum in charge gave a big long list of all the thing that were done.It was supposed to be compleat for railfest 2001. Hell,the members were supposed to get a private excursion at Steamtown that fall before Railfest. Never happened . Never will happen! I'm sorry if i'm stoken an empty boiler but today when I stopped at the museum to find out about the K4 a was not surprised. seems the work that has been done is not correct!! namely the welding. I hope that new backhead was welded on correctly. Maybe the were referring to the steam dome which was cracked. I thought the boiled had been inspected? Money was spend(our tax $s) and the work was not done right. Now work has come to a halt while the higher poweres figure out there next mistake.---Mark--- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:44:38 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] old lines west roads --part1_d.1508f638.2c473d66_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/15/2003 9:12:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, bubbles@visi.net writes: > My question is this. > What predecessor "Lines West" "Pan handle" > roads ran between Pittsburg and Columbus > in 1862 via Stubensville, Oh. I do realize > that what ever they were they might have run on > trackage rights on the P,FW&C RR out of > Pittsburgh to Stubenville . > Remember in 1862 there was no railroad bridge across the Ohio River at Steubenville. It was not built until 1865. So someone who arrived opposite the town on the Pittsburgh & Steubenville from Pittsburgh would have crossed there, probably by ferry, to change trains. At Steubenville there were several choices: 1. The Steubenville & Indiana via Coshocton to Newark, and then on via the Central Ohio (jointly owned by B&O and PRR interests) to Columbus 2. Less likely, via the River Division of the Cleveland & Pittsburgh south from Steubenville to Bellaire, then over the Central Ohio to Newark and on into Columbus 3. River steamer to Bellaire, and then the CO to Columbus Indeed, why not a steamer from Pittsburgh to Steubenville or Bellaire in Ohio? Also, why go north to Baltimore from DC? I'm assuming the trip was during a period of 1862 when the B&O was menaced by the Confederates, so that obvious direct route was not available? The following year when the Union army moved 25,000 men from Virginia to Tennessee via Columbus, they went on the B&O from DC to Wheeling and then the Central Ohio to Columbus. Lee Rainey --part1_d.1508f638.2c473d66_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 7/15/2003 9:12:45 PM Eastern Standa= rd Time, bubbles@visi.net writes:


My question is this.
What predecessor "Lines West= " "Pan handle"
roads ran between Pittsburg=20= and Columbus
in 1862 via Stubensville, Oh= . I do realize
that what ever they were the= y might have run on
trackage rights on the P,FW&= amp;C RR out of
Pittsburgh to Stubenville .<= /FONT>


Remember in 1862 there was no railroad bridge across the Ohio River at Steub= enville. It was not built until 1865. So someone who arrived opposite the to= wn on the Pittsburgh & Steubenville from Pittsburgh would have crossed t= here, probably  by ferry, to change trains. At Steubenville there were=20= several choices:
1. The Steubenville & Indiana via Coshocton to Newark, and then on via t= he Central Ohio (jointly owned by B&O and PRR interests) to Columbus
2. Less likely, via the River Division of the Cleveland & Pittsburgh sou= th from Steubenville to Bellaire, then over the Central Ohio to Newark and o= n into Columbus
3. River steamer to Bellaire, and then the CO to Columbus
Indeed, why not a steamer from Pittsburgh to Steubenville or Bellaire in Ohi= o?

Also, why go north to Baltimore from DC? I'm assuming the trip was during a=20= period of 1862 when the B&O was menaced by the Confederates, so that obv= ious direct route was not available? The following year when the Union army=20= moved 25,000 men from Virginia to Tennessee via Columbus, they went on the B= &O from DC to Wheeling and then the Central Ohio to Columbus.

Lee Rainey --part1_d.1508f638.2c473d66_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Lionel is FULL of surprises Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:01:33 -0400 Hi All, I just returned from the NASG convention. Lionel debuted these parts as the first all NEW American Flyer S Gauge loco in over 40 years. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/Lionel_loco.jpg It is a USRA light mike. (PRR L-2?) Anyway, the castings were quite nice. A scale version is remotely possible as well. Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:16:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Lionel is FULL of surprises Bill, List, Evidently Lionel Corp. is stretching their legs and expanding their market. If they continue they may be a player to watch in the not so distant future. With their contacts in China who knows what is on the agenda. Anyone have contacts to see what the next Lionel HO loco after the 4-6-6-4's will be?....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hanlon" Subject: [PRR] H-10 #8220 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:44:13 -0400 does anyone have a quality image of this locomotive. i am in the process of purchasing a new house and the number is 8220. i'd like to get a high resolution scan of the negative or photo to make a print to hang in my new house. i know it is a off the wall request. i love the H-10's and having one with my new house number makes it even sweeter. -steve hanlon severn, md ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] X47a Box Cars Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:30:39 +0000 Jerry Britton asked: "Anyone know when the X47a's started appearing? I suspect they will be too late for this September 1954 modeler!" Unfortunately, your suspicions are correct. There's a photo of PRR 72510 on page 50 in PRR Color Guide Vol 2 which clearly shows a built date of 9-55. I also cross-checked this against my copy of the January 1955 ORER - it shows the X47A number series (72280-72679) as a new series reserved for 50 ft 6 in IL boxcars but with no other dimensional information. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Scott Cessna" Subject: [PRR] 1361 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:49:29 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_09FF_01C34C40.5568B810 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mr. Lehman, I'm not sure who you talked to at the museum when you were here but it = obviously wasn't me. I certainly have no intention of trying to stop = discussion of the K4 but it would be nice if everyone did their homework = before spreading unsubstantiated information. In your case, you = referred to the work coming to a halt while we "figured out our next = mistake". I take great offense to the commentary that we don't know = what we are doing. There is a crew working fulltime on the locomotive = and the work has not come to a stop. The steam dome was welded and = inspected but then had a grinder taken to it for some unknown reason by = the previous contractor. Guess what, that meant it had to be completely = redone. Contrary to your opinion, 1361 IS coming home and IS going to = run in excursion service (if the insurance industry makes that = possible). New pictures of the work can be seen via our website at = railroadcity.com. Thanks Scott Cessna Director of Operations Railroaders Heritage Corporation Altoona, PA 814-946-0834 ext 224 Fax 814-946-9457 ------=_NextPart_000_09FF_01C34C40.5568B810 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mr. Lehman,
 
I'm not sure who you talked to at the = museum when=20 you were here but it obviously wasn't me.  I certainly have no = intention of=20 trying to stop discussion of the K4 but it would be nice if everyone did = their=20 homework before spreading unsubstantiated information.  In your = case, you=20 referred to the work coming to a halt while we "figured out our next=20 mistake".  I take great offense to the commentary that we don't = know what=20 we are doing.  There is a crew working fulltime on the locomotive = and the=20 work has not come to a stop.  The steam dome was welded and = inspected but=20 then had a grinder taken to it for some unknown reason by the previous=20 contractor.  Guess what, that meant it had to be completely = redone. =20 Contrary to your opinion, 1361 IS coming home and IS going to run in = excursion=20 service (if the insurance industry makes that possible).  New = pictures of=20 the work can be seen via our website at railroadcity.com.
 
Thanks
 
Scott Cessna
Director of=20 Operations
Railroaders Heritage Corporation
Altoona, PA
814-946-0834  ext = 224
Fax=20 814-946-9457
------=_NextPart_000_09FF_01C34C40.5568B810-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:11:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: Re: [PRR] old lines west roads --0-714795257-1058461907=:80805 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lee As I mentioned in my previous posting, the bridge was not the only problem. There were no through Pittsburgh to Steubenville trains until 1865, after the Dinsmore tunnel was completed, although parts of the line between Pittsburgh and Steubenville had been laid, and possibly were in use. Ron Di Orio LeeRainey@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 7/15/2003 9:12:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, bubbles@visi.net writes: My question is this. What predecessor "Lines West" "Pan handle" roads ran between Pittsburg and Columbus in 1862 via Stubensville, Oh. I do realize that what ever they were they might have run on trackage rights on the P,FW&C RR out of Pittsburgh to Stubenville . Remember in 1862 there was no railroad bridge across the Ohio River at Steubenville. It was not built until 1865. So someone who arrived opposite the town on the Pittsburgh & Steubenville from Pittsburgh would have crossed there, probably by ferry, to change trains. At Steubenville there were several choices: 1. The Steubenville & Indiana via Coshocton to Newark, and then on via the Central Ohio (jointly owned by B&O and PRR interests) to Columbus 2. Less likely, via the River Division of the Cleveland & Pittsburgh south from Steubenville to Bellaire, then over the Central Ohio to Newahe ond on into Columbus 3. River steamer to Bellaire, and then the CO to Columbus Indeed, why not a steamer from Pittsburgh to Steubenville or Bellaire in Ohio? Also, why go north to Baltimore from DC? I'm assuming the trip was during a period of 1862 when the B&O was menaced by the Confederates, so that obvious direct route was not available? The following year when the Union army moved 25,000 men from Virginia to Tennessee via Columbus, they went on the B&O from DC to Wheeling and then the Central Ohio to Columbus. Lee Rainey --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! --0-714795257-1058461907=:80805 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Lee
 
As I mentioned in my previous posting, the bridge was not the only problem.  There were no through Pittsburgh to Steubenville trains until 1865, after the Dinsmore tunnel was completed, although parts of the line between Pittsburgh and Steubenville had been laid, and possibly were in use.
 
Ron Di Orio

LeeRainey@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/15/2003 9:12:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, bubbles@visi.net writes:


My question is this.
What predecessor "Lines West" "Pan handle"
roads ran between Pittsburg and Columbus
in 1862 via Stubensville, Oh. I do realize
that what ever they were they might have run on
trackage rights on the P,FW&C RR out of
Pittsburgh to Stubenville .


Remember in 1862 there was no railroad bridge across the Ohio River at Steubenville. It was not built until 1865. So someone who arrived opposite the town on the Pittsburgh & Steubenville from Pittsburgh would have crossed there, probably  by ferry, to change trains. At Steubenville there were several choices:
1. The Steubenville & Indiana via Coshocton to Newark, and then on via the Central Ohio (jointly owned by B&O and PRR interests) to Columbus
2. Less likely, via the River Division of the Cleveland & Pittsburgh south from Steubenville to Bellaire, then over the Central Ohio to Newark and on into Columbus
3. River steamer to Bellaire, and then the CO to Columbus
Indeed, why not a steamer from Pittsburgh to Steubenville or Bellaire in Ohio?

Also, why go north to Baltimore from DC? I'm assuming the trip was during a period of 1862 when the B&O was menaced by the Confederates, so that obvious direct route was not available? The following year when the Union army moved 25,000 men from Virginia to Tennessee via Columbus, they went on the B&O from DC to Wheeling and then the Central Ohio to Columbus.

Lee Rainey

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SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! --0-714795257-1058461907=:80805-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:30:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Vondruska Subject: [PRR] HO motive power sale --0-1328535656-1058463055=:80826 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Please e-mail a request for P2K, Bowser steam and Stewart Locos I'm selling. Tom V. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! --0-1328535656-1058463055=:80826 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Please e-mail a request for P2K, Bowser steam and Stewart Locos I'm selling.
 
Tom V.

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SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! --0-1328535656-1058463055=:80826-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:32:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] Dinsmore Tunnel Story --0-2135674347-1058463136=:76816 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Heard this story recently concerning an incident that had to do with the old Dinsmore tunnel from the son of a man who used to fire on the Pennsy out of Burgettstown. Evidently, there used to be a man who lived in the Burgettstown area who fired for the Pennsy and was, to say the least, quite a character. I have his name but will let him remain anonymous. One day he was firing on an eastbound freight--the train was stopped somewhere west of here, Mingo, Weirton Junction or Colliers, not sure exactly where. In any case, this fireman did not get along with the engineman. When it became time for the train to start the climb out of the Ohio valley, there was not enough steam up in the boiler. The fireman informed the engineman that this was the case, but the engineman didn't care, and proceeded to move the train. The fireman sweated all the way up the long climb out of the valley trying to keep sufficient steam up to keep the train moving, but the train eventually stalled just at the crest of the climb, with the locomotive in the Dinsmore tunnel. In disgust, the fireman abandoned the train, but not before having thrown his scoop, the oil can, and anything else he could find into the firebox and telling the engineman exactly what he thought of him. The fireman walked home, up over the hill, leaving the engineman alone with a train stalled in the tunnel. Needless to say, not only was this the fireman's last trip as an employee of the Pennsy, but later that day authorities from Pittsburgh arrived at his home and placed him under arrest. Evidently abandoning a locomotive/train like he did was some sort of crime, let alone the willfull destruction of property charges stemming from his tossing the tools into the firebox! The fireman in question eventually went to work firing steam shovels for Harmon Creek Coal Company. Not sure exactly when this incident occurred, but the Dinsmore tunnel was daylighted during World War II. Ron Di Orio --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! --0-2135674347-1058463136=:76816 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Heard this story recently concerning an incident that had to do with the old Dinsmore tunnel from the son of a man who used to fire on the Pennsy out of Burgettstown.  
 
Evidently, there used to be a man who lived in the Burgettstown area who fired for the Pennsy and was, to say the least, quite a character.  I have his name but will let him remain anonymous.  One day he was firing on an eastbound freight--the train was stopped somewhere west of here, Mingo, Weirton Junction or Colliers, not sure exactly where.  In any case, this fireman did not get along with the engineman.  When it became time for the train to start the climb out of the Ohio valley, there was not enough steam up in the boiler.  The fireman informed the engineman that this was the case, but the engineman didn't care, and proceeded to move the train.  The fireman sweated all the way up the long climb out of the valley trying to keep sufficient steam up to keep the train moving, but the train eventually stalled just at the crest of the climb, with the locomotive in the Dinsmore tunnel.  In disgust, the fireman abandoned the train, but not before having thrown his scoop, the oil can, and anything else he could find into the firebox and telling the engineman exactly what he thought of him.  The fireman walked home, up over the hill, leaving the engineman alone with a train stalled in the tunnel.
 
Needless to say, not only was this the fireman's last trip as an employee of the Pennsy, but later that day authorities from Pittsburgh arrived at his home and placed him under arrest.  Evidently abandoning a locomotive/train like he did was some sort of crime, let alone the willfull destruction of property charges stemming from his tossing the tools into the firebox!  The fireman in question eventually went to work firing steam shovels for Harmon Creek Coal Company.
 
Not sure exactly when this incident occurred, but the Dinsmore tunnel was daylighted during World War II.
 
Ron Di Orio

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SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! --0-2135674347-1058463136=:76816-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:39:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] List of P-70 coaches --0-321763195-1058463551=:87599 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii While checking the list of P70 coach numbers supplied yesterday, I noticed that number 4531 does not appear to fit in anywhere on the list. Reason I mention this is that this is one of the numbers applied by Bachman to their P70s. Any explanation? Was there a P70 numbered 4531 or is this another "Botchjob"? Thanks. Ron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! --0-321763195-1058463551=:87599 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
While checking the list of P70 coach numbers supplied yesterday, I noticed that number 4531 does not appear to fit in anywhere on the list.  Reason I mention this is that this is one of the numbers applied by Bachman to their P70s.  Any explanation?  Was there a P70  numbered 4531 or is this another "Botchjob"?  Thanks.
 
Ron

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SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! --0-321763195-1058463551=:87599-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:36:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] 1900 PRR Pass. Train List, It didn't take long for Roundhouse/MDC to release one of the most colorful Passenger Trains in history. The PRR "Yellow Kid". Although not 100% prototypical it does do the train justice. Check them out: http://www.mdcroundhouse.com/news/ho-07-03.htm For power, good luck as there is no D16a available. A half decent stand in could be the Mantua E3/E7 or whatever it is. I was all set to do this train myself in the Yellow Kid colors but now I do not need the headache that goes along with a multicolor and striped set. I did however have "fun" with the Westerfield Yellow Kid when it first come out. Nice train, hard to build but worth it. For Power, although I seldom if ever run it, would be my Key Imports E7s 4-4-2 backdated with oil burning headlight. Looks appropriate enough for me. Anyway, for those interested in the MDC cars, they are $42.98 list each. Only 4 cars available so hopefully they release 2-3 more sleepers with the appropriate names.......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: [PRR] Getting puiblicity in your local paper. Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:18:40 -0400 Lists, I will be exhibiting my 2 ft. by. 4 ft.. PRR N scale layout at the Tallahassee Train Show located at the North Florida Fairgrounds this Saturday, the 19th. I emailed the local weekly paper the URL for the flyer and a couple of URL's from my website. Their reporter interviewed me Tuesday and did a two page spread in the paper. Its' also on line at: http://www.starfl.com/article.cfm?ID=17310 Hope y'all enjoy and can make the show if you're in the area. Gregg Mahlkov ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:11:01 -0400 From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Subject: Re: [PRR] List of P-70 coaches Ron. P70 #4531 does not appear on the 1/53 ORPTE. It lists 4519 to 4526, then jumps to 4545. However, the 4500 series of cars were mostly dining cars. The coaches stopped at 4399. So, 4531,4533 & 4535 are wrong numbers on the cars. Regards, Eddie Ronald Di Orio wrote: > > While checking the list of P70 coach numbers supplied yesterday, I > noticed that number 4531 does not appear to fit in anywhere on the > list. Reasonore ention this is that this is one of the numbers > applied by Bachman to their P70s. Any explanation? Was there a P70 > numbered 4531 or is this another "Botchjob"? Thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: [PRR] PRR Freight cars and Carmer Cut Levers? Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:36:11 -0400 I have been building my stash of RC X29's and based on the photo's I have I need to get some Carmer cut levers (Not sure if I spelled the name right) for them. Does anyone know of a source for them in HO. I know Westerfield makes them for some kits, but I didn't see them available separately. Does anyone else make them in brass, resin or plastic? Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: [PRR] Re: [STMFC] PRR Freight cars and Carmer Cut Levers? Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:53:52 -0400 Brian Carlson asked: I have been building my stash of RC X29's and based on the photo's I have I need to get some Carmer cut levers (Not sure if I spelled the name right) for them. Does anyone know of a source for them in HO. I know Westerfield makes them for some kits, but I didn't see them available separately. Does anyone else make them in brass, resin or plastic? Westerfield does not offer them separately as the pattern maker has reserved his rights to the Carmer cut levers. (Don't hold your breath for him to offer them either.) It's not as good as the Westerfield part, but Sunshine offers an etched stainless steel Carmer cut lever at $3 a pair. You can also make them yourself per John Teichmoeller's method detailed in his hopper book, which is basically bending them from brass strip. Your other recourse is to model some Class X29 cars with bottom-operated cut levers, which some did receive as time passed. Check your photos. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:52:30 -0400 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] Getting puiblicity in your local paper. Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > Lists, > > I will be exhibiting my 2 ft. by. 4 ft.. PRR N scale layout at the > Tallahassee Train Show located at the North Florida Fairgrounds this > Saturday, the 19th. I emailed the local weekly paper the URL for the flyer > and a couple of URL's from my website. Their reporter interviewed me Tuesday > and did a two page spread in the paper. Its' also on line at: > http://www.starfl.com/article.cfm?ID=17310 There is a point here: Many, especially local, news media are HUNGRY for material to 'fill the white space'. We hear from time to tim much worry about 'the decline of 'the hobby'' Everyone with even the possibility of a story can do what Gregg did. Worst is to get no story, best is a nice story, some positive PR. Some papers have formal 'local activities' lists, with or without accompanying longer stories. This can pull in 'new blood'. End Rant. 8)>> best dwp ...the net of a million lies... Vernor Vinge There are Many Web Sites which Say Many Things. -me ...for he has read everything, and written nothing... A J Raffles ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Corridor problems Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:27:57 +0000 This was on the Trains.com web site. They also had a blurb yesterday saying an Accela snagged the catenary at DC taking out 12 tracks. Looks like it was a bad day for catenary. NEW YORK CITY – At about 6 p.m. yesterday, Amtrak restored overhead electric power to the first of two Hell Gate line tracks where wires fell that morning, enabling trains to again operate directly to and from Penn Station from Connecticut and points east. The second track was expected to be back in service today. Preliminary reports indicate that an insulator used to separate the high- voltage power lines from a non-energized support bar "flashed-over" - or sparked - causing the lines to fall. The section of power lines affected is among the oldest on the Northeast Corridor, installed about 90 years ago. Amtrak has plans to upgrade these power lines in its five-year plan, which is currently before Congress. Service was disrupted between Penn Station and points along the Northeast Corridor toward New Haven, Conn., at approximately 7 a.m. yesterday when Amtrak received reports of downed wires. During the service disruption, passengers were rerouted on Metro-North commuter trains between Grand Central Terminal and New Haven. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Corridor problems Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:05:19 +0000 This one? Human error and mechanical failure cited as contributions to derailment NEWARK, N.J. – Three days into an investigation of New Jersey Transit train 3920’s derailment, NJDOT Commissioner and NJ Transit Board Chairman Jack Lettiere and NJ Transit Executive Director George D. Warrington announced that the preliminary results point to two factors – human error and mechanical failure – that contributed to the incident. Based upon all available evidence to date, the officials said that the preliminary report indicates train 3920 struck debris enroute from Trenton. The debris strike caused the bearing seal in the wheel assembly of car 1368 to be damaged between the gear unit and the bearing housing. This damage and subsequent overheating caused the bearing to seize up and fail. The investigation also found that at railroad milepost 29.7 near Edison, New Jersey, Amtrak’s wayside hot wheel scanner detected excessive heat and signaled to the dispatcher that the wheel was overheating. “The protocol in these instances is clear – and is guided by both NJ Transit rules and Amtrak special instructions to crews,” said Warrington. “The conductor is required to use a Tempilstik device on a specific part of the wheel assembly to determine whether the surface temperature has exceeded 200 degrees. Proper performance of this type of inspection would have detected an impending wheel failure. As a result, all of our train crews will immediately be re-trained in safety and inspection protocols within the next 60 days.” Later in the train’s journey, the bearing failure led to the separation of the wheel from the axle, according to the investigating team’s findings. The investigation revealed that instructions and assistance rendered to train 3920’s passengers immediately following the derailment were inadequate. While the first NJ Transit manager was on the scene within 20 minutes, the on-board public address system was not operational following the derailment. “It is clear that on-board emergency response plans and contingency protocols need to be improved,” Warrington said. > Speaking of the corridor, has anyone heard anything more about the NJT > derailment near Portal, other than the initial headlines? > > John > > -------Original Message------- > From: ndbprr@att.net > Sent: 07/18/03 09:27 AM > To: PRR-Talk > Subject: [PRR] Corridor problems > > > > > This was on the Trains.com web site. They also had a blurb yesterday > saying an > Accela snagged the catenary at DC taking out 12 tracks. Looks like it was > a > bad day for catenary. > > NEW YORK CITY – At about 6 p.m. yesterday, Amtrak restored overhead > electric > power to the first of two Hell Gate line tracks where wires fell that > morning, > enabling trains to again operate directly to and from Penn Station from > Connecticut and points east. The second track was expected to be back in > service today. > > Preliminary reports indicate that an insulator used to separate the high- > voltage power lines from a non-energized support bar "flashed-over" - or > sparked - causing the lines to fall. The section of power lines affected > is > among the oldest on the Northeast Corridor, installed about 90 years ago. > Amtrak has plans to upgrade these power lines in its five-year plan, which > is > currently before Congress. > > Service was disrupted between Penn Station and points along the Northeast > Corridor toward New Haven, Conn., at approximately 7 a.m. yesterday when > Amtrak > received reports of downed wires. > > During the service disruption, passengers were rerouted on Metro-North > commuter > trains between Grand Central Terminal and New Haven. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 19:44:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Ed Woodings Ed, List, Would Ed Woodings please email me off list. I seemed to have misplaced your email address. Anyone here have his email if he is not presently a member here. Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] "The Garys" photo source question Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:53:55 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0779_01C34D6E.B3E9EF60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Listers: In many publications such as the Withers Pennsylvania Railroad Diesel = Locomotive Pictorial series, many photos are presented from a variety of = sources. These sources are referenced by the full names of photographers = or collectors...except for one. I have noticed that one reference is simply listed as The Garys. What = does this mean? Is it a last name? Is it an organization? Or is it a = collection of photographers whose first name is Gary?? While this requisition may seem silly, it is slowly but surely beginning = to bother me. =20 -Ted (with possibly too much free time on my hands) ------=_NextPart_000_0779_01C34D6E.B3E9EF60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Listers:
 
In many publications such as the Withers Pennsylvania Railroad = Diesel=20 Locomotive Pictorial series, many photos are presented from a = variety of=20 sources. These sources are referenced by the full names of = photographers or=20 collectors...except for one.
 
I have noticed that one reference is simply listed as The=20 Garys. What does this mean? Is it a last name? Is it an = organization? Or is=20 it a collection of photographers whose first name is Gary??
 
While this requisition may seem silly, it is slowly but surely = beginning to=20 bother me. 
 
 
-Ted (with possibly too much free time on my=20 hands)  
------=_NextPart_000_0779_01C34D6E.B3E9EF60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:06:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] "The Garys" photo source question Ted, I can honestly say I seen the same thing and wondered the same thing. I can say this though... It isn't me.... A Gary, not thee Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] "The Garys" photo source question Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:14:48 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C34D7A.00656620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ted, If you have a copy of the Spring 2002 Keystone, there is a picture on = page 38 of a T1 taken by Stephen Gary, of his twin sons, Dennis and = Peter standing on the running board along with Roger Keyser in 1955. All = 3 of "the Garys" were railfans/photographers and chose to label their = collective works simply as being taken by "the Garys". Some time ago I = too was curious after seeing this credit repeatedly and Roger explained = it to me. Jack Consoli ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ted Andrews=20 To: PRR Talk=20 Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 9:53 PM Subject: [PRR] "The Garys" photo source question Listers: In many publications such as the Withers Pennsylvania Railroad Diesel = Locomotive Pictorial series, many photos are presented from a variety of = sources. These sources are referenced by the full names of photographers = or collectors...except for one. I have noticed that one reference is simply listed as The Garys. What = does this mean? Is it a last name? Is it an organization? Or is it a = collection of photographers whose first name is Gary?? While this requisition may seem silly, it is slowly but surely = beginning to bother me. =20 -Ted (with possibly too much free time on my hands) =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C34D7A.00656620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ted,
 
If you have a copy of the Spring 2002 Keystone, = there is a=20 picture on page 38 of a T1 taken by Stephen Gary, of his twin sons, = Dennis and=20 Peter standing on the running board along with Roger Keyser in 1955. All = 3 of=20 "the Garys" were railfans/photographers and chose to label their = collective=20 works simply as being taken by "the Garys". Some time ago I too was = curious=20 after seeing this credit repeatedly and Roger explained it to = me.
 
Jack Consoli
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ted = Andrews=20
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 = 9:53 PM
Subject: [PRR] "The Garys" = photo source=20 question

Listers:
 
In many publications such as the Withers Pennsylvania Railroad = Diesel=20 Locomotive Pictorial series, many photos are presented from a = variety of=20 sources. These sources are referenced by the full names of = photographers=20 or collectors...except for one.
 
I have noticed that one reference is simply listed as = The=20 Garys. What does this mean? Is it a last name? Is it an = organization? Or=20 is it a collection of photographers whose first name is Gary??
 
While this requisition may seem silly, it is slowly but surely = beginning=20 to bother me. 
 
 
-Ted (with possibly too much free time on my=20 hands)  
------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C34D7A.00656620-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Fw: [PRR] "The Garys" photo source question Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 21:48:18 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_07BC_01C34D76.4CEBB020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jack and Larry: Thank you for your answers. I just pulled up the Spring 2002 Keystone = and saw the photo with caption. I had a sneaking suspicion that it was a = last name however, the "s" threw me off . A last name such as Gary is = common. Ted ------=_NextPart_000_07BC_01C34D76.4CEBB020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Jack and Larry:
 
Thank you for your answers. I just pulled up the Spring 2002 = Keystone and=20 saw the photo with caption. I had a sneaking suspicion that it was a = last name=20 however, the "s" threw me off . A last name such as Gary = is=20 common.
 
Ted
------=_NextPart_000_07BC_01C34D76.4CEBB020-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Cessvw@cs.com Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:46:32 EDT Subject: [PRR] Steamtown and #1361 --part1_7f.3a43c34b.2c4a0b08_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just as a point of clarification, the K4 #1361 restoration is taking place at Steamtown but is in no way under the direction of Steamtown personnel. The crew working on the locomotive is paid by and is supervised by the Railroaders Memorial Museum. Anyone wishing to participate in the restoration effort in any way, financial or otherwise would need to do so through the Museum and not Steamtown. Thanks, Scott Cessna Director of Operations Railroaders Heritage Corporation Operators of The Railroaders Memorial Museum & Horseshoe Curve National HIstoric Landmark - Altoona, PA --part1_7f.3a43c34b.2c4a0b08_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just as a point of clarif= ication, the K4 #1361 restoration is taking place at Steamtown but is in no=20= way under the direction of Steamtown personnel.  The crew working on th= e locomotive is paid by and is supervised by the Railroaders Memorial Museum= .  Anyone wishing to participate in the restoration effort in any way,=20= financial or otherwise would need to do so through the Museum and not Steamt= own.

Thanks,

Scott Cessna
Director of Operations
Railroaders Heritage Corporation
Operators of The Railroaders Memorial Museum & Horseshoe Curve Natio= nal HIstoric Landmark - Altoona, PA --part1_7f.3a43c34b.2c4a0b08_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach" Subject: [PRR] BLI GG1 pictures Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 14:52:51 -0400

There are now pictures of models in all the paint schemes on the BLI website. It also states "in stores this month!"
Eric
 
 
--- Eric Lauterbach
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
 

----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 01:00:54 GMT Subject: [PRR] PRR Pass. Run-Through Info. From: Dominic Mazoch The book, Pennsy Streamliners, the Blue Ribbon Fleet, has an excelent chapter on PRR passenger run through ops with other railroads. Dominic Mazoch ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" From: Dominic Mazoch Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 01:00:54 GMT Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR Pass. Run-Through Info. The book, Pennsy Streamliners, the Blue Ribbon Fleet, has an excelent chapter on PRR passenger run through ops with other railroads. Dominic Mazoch ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge & refill kit orders to US & Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark & more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jim Weinschenker" Subject: [PRR] PRR Cast Iron Milepost Markers Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 19:43:31 -0400 Hi folks- What were the colors of a cast iron milepost marker? I'm talking about the markers that were triangular in shape with an open back and about eight feet long. Were they white with black numbers or black with white numbers? Thanks... Jim Weinschenker 775 Race Street Waynesburg, PA 15370 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 20:18:15 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Cast Iron Milepost Markers --part1_f5.2f16aeab.2c4c8b47_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Jim. The Std plan says that Mileposts are painted white with numbers painted black. Division markers,markers designating county line were painted black with lettering being white. I have seen the old mileposts painted all white(front and back) with the black numbers and others with the two sides with the numbers painted white down to approx where it enters the ground and then painted black along with the entire back portion being black. Unless you pull one out of the ground, hardly anyone sees what color the portion in the ground may have been painted. I have two mileposts and the two faces with the numbers are painted white with the numbers black. The front faces at the bottom are painted black from the top of the two round open curvatures down to the base along with the entire back. Check the site of Rob Schoenburg, as it has the Std Plans for MP's and painting. http://prr.railfan.net Hope this helps. Pat McKinney Altoona, Pa --part1_f5.2f16aeab.2c4c8b47_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Jim.
        The Std plan says that Mileposts=20= are painted white with numbers painted black.
Division markers,markers designating county line were painted black with let= tering being white. I have seen the old mileposts painted all white(front an= d back) with the black numbers and others with the two sides with the number= s painted white down to approx where it enters the ground and then painted b= lack along with the entire back portion being black. Unless you pull one out= of the ground, hardly anyone sees what color the portion in the ground may=20= have been painted.
   I have two mileposts and the two faces with the numbers are pai= nted white with the numbers black. The front faces at the bottom are painted= black from the top of the two round open curvatures down to the base along=20= with the entire back.
  Check the site of Rob Schoenburg, as it has the Std Plans for MP's an= d painting.
             http://prr.railfan.net
Hope this helps.

Pat McKinney
Altoona, Pa --part1_f5.2f16aeab.2c4c8b47_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Div6super@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 23:09:10 EDT Subject: [PRR] (no subject) --part1_109.25e58166.2c4cb356_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'M SO SORRY ! A virus has been passed to me through a contact's address book. My address book was infected. Since you are in my address book, you will probably find it in your computer, too. The virus - called jdbg.exe - is not detected by Norton or McAfee Anti-virus systems. The virus sits quietly for 14 days before damaging the system. It is sent automatically by "messenger" and by address book, whether or not you sent e-mails to your contacts. Here is how to check for the virus and how to get rid of it. It only takes a few minutes. 1. Go to START and then click your "Find" or "Search" option 2. In the folder option, type the name: jdbgmgr.exe 3. Be sure to search your C Drive and all the sub folders and any other drives you may have 4. Click "FIND NOW" 5. The virus has a teddy bear icon with the name jdbgmgr.exe. DO NOT OPEN IT. 6. Go to EDIT (on the menu bar) and choose "Select All" to highlight the file without opening it. No go to FILE (on the menu bar) and select DELETE. It will then go to the recycle bin. If you find the virus, you must contact all the people in your Address Book so that they may eradicate the virus from their own address books. TO DO THIS: 1. Open a new E-Mail message. 2. Click the ICON Address Book next to "To:" 3. Highlight EVERY name and click "BCC". 4. Copy this message and paste it into the E-mail --part1_109.25e58166.2c4cb356_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'M SO SORRY !
A virus has been passed to me through a contact's
address book. My address book was infected. Since you
are in my address book, you will probably find it in
your computer, too. The virus - called jdbg.exe - is
not detected by Norton or McAfee Anti-virus systems.
The virus sits quietly for 14 days before damaging the
system. It is sent automatically by "messenger" and by
address book, whether or not you sent e-mails to your
contacts. Here is how to check for the virus and how
to get rid of it. It only takes a few minutes.
1. Go to START and then click your "Find" or "Search"
option
2. In the folder option, type the name: jdbgmgr.exe
3. Be sure to search your C Drive and all the sub
folders and any other drives you may have
4. Click "FIND NOW"
5. The virus has a teddy bear icon with the name
jdbgmgr.exe. DO NOT OPEN IT.
6. Go to EDIT (on the menu bar) and choose "Select
All" to highlight the file without opening it.
No go to FILE (on the menu bar) and select DELETE. It
will then go to the recycle bin. If you find the
virus, you must contact all the people in your Address
Book so that they may eradicate the virus from their
own address books.
TO DO THIS:
1. Open a new E-Mail message.
2. Click the ICON Address Book next to "To:"
3. Highlight EVERY name and click "BCC".
4. Copy this message and paste it into the E-mail




--part1_109.25e58166.2c4cb356_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 08:28:33 -0400 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: [PRR] Re: Virus alert You jumped the gun and are spreading bad info. This file is part of Windows and should not be deleted. See http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99436.htm Please notify and apologize to those that you have inconvenienced. Jim McDaniel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:17:32 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Virus Humor From: Jerry Britton Seems as if we have yet another instance of "the sky is falling" virus alerts. Folks, DO NOT put virus warnings on the list! The list has never been known to spread a virus. Until that changes, viruses are your own. Get inoculated! Okay, perhaps an analogy is in order... WARNING: All of your locomotives have been infected with a virus. If you do not act quickly, it will spread to your rolling stock, power supplies, structures and scenery. To clean your locomotives of this virus, you must immediately go to the tallest building in your town with all of your locomotives. Go to the top floor. Open a window. One by one, drop your locomotives out the window. When finished, go back to the ground floor. Pick up your locomotives and return them to service on your layout. The virus will be gone as sudden impact destroys its structure. I assure you, this is the only way to clean the virus from your locomotives. Okay, would you overly-anxious anti-virus folks follow the above directions? If you would, more power to you, I guess!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI GG1 pictures Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:28:20 +0000 Since these are the ones being sold I guess we can now comment on the pictures. 1. I don't recall the pantograph insulators being red. I seem to remember a dark green or black on the order of DGLE. 2. The silver wheel centers are incorrect. They should be black 3. The side views somehow make the nose sections look to short. It could be paralax in the photo or shot with a wide angle lens to get closer to the model. It appears to me the center section is to high causing the effect. 4. I do like the continuation of the steps below the car body side. 5. My personal opinion and not in the majority is it isn't worth the money so I will not be purchasing any. To each their own however. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:58:47 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: [PRR] TAN: Hosam (S.A. McCall) Fellow SPFs, I wanted to let y'all know of the passing of S. A. "Hosam" McCall, who was an early and prolific member of the PRR-talk list. Hosam hadn't posted anything since November of 1999 to PRR-talk, but he continued to be an active and supportive modeler. He maintained a very useful web site at http://www.hosam.com/, which I have heard via other lists will likely be maintained. I know that like me, many of you will miss him. Sincerely, Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 08:04:59 -0400 From: davep Subject: Don't be sorry, don't delete that file. Re: [PRR] (no subject) Please Don't Delete that file! It is a normal, if obscure, part of windows. Feel free to check at www.symantec.com (the 'Norton' people.) This is a KNOWN HOAX. Please pass this note along, it may save others some work and damage... best dwp ====================================================== Div6super@aol.com wrote: > I'M SO SORRY ! > A virus has been passed to me through a contact's > address book. My address book was infected. Since you > are in my address book, you will probably find it in > your computer, too. The virus - called jdbg.exe - is > not detected by Norton or McAfee Anti-virus systems. > The virus sits quietly for 14 days before damaging the > system. It is sent automatically by "messenger" and by > address book, whether or not you sent e-mails to your > contacts. Here is how to check for the virus and how > to get rid of it. It only takes a few minutes. > 1. Go to START and then click your "Find" or "Search" > option > 2. In the folder option, type the name: jdbgmgr.exe > 3. Be sure to search your C Drive and all the sub > folders and any other drives you may have > 4. Click "FIND NOW" > 5. The virus has a teddy bear icon with the name > jdbgmgr.exe. DO NOT OPEN IT. > 6. Go to EDIT (on the menu bar) and choose "Select > All" to highlight the file without opening it. > No go to FILE (on the menu bar) and select DELETE. It > will then go to the recycle bin. If you find the > virus, you must contact all the people in your Address > Book so that they may eradicate the virus from their > own address books. > TO DO THIS: > 1. Open a new E-Mail message. > 2. Click the ICON Address Book next to "To:" > 3. Highlight EVERY name and click "BCC". > 4. Copy this message and paste it into the E-mail ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:51:14 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: [PRR] Pullman to MOW conversions Howdy, A fellow lister asked me about PRR Pullman to MOW conversions recently. Its a little past my era, but I did a little digging and here's what I found...please feel free to correct or add as you see fit! On the subject of PRR conversions for MOW. I looked at PRR Color Guides 1,2 & 3 and found pictures of converted Pullmans in 1 and 3. On page 106 of CG1, there are photos of three cars, 492898, 492900, 492765 which are clearly conversions from 12-1 like cars. Notably, they are probably plan 3410/A/B cars as they have A/C ducts on the roof. On page 115 of CG3 is PRR 429544, a class KRDS14, 14 man kitchen, riding, dining, sleeping car, converted from the Joshua Barney (also numbered PRR 8843 after 1948) in 1964. From Tom Madden's Pullman database (http://home.att.net/~tgmadden/Pullman_CCR_Text.htm): Joshua Barney, built 8-Apr-26, plan 3410A, paint PRR Std.; MDD4973 (nd), trucks 2410; 2410A (nd), brakes UC 1x18, battery boxes 2x8; 1x16 (3/12/34), steps 4T, Ice A/C (12-Mar-34), Sold To PRR (Leased To Pullman) 31-Dec-48, WFL date 19-Jun-62. As for the modeling the PRR cars...you can make almost anything from a Riv 12-1 and NERS windows. You will probably want the Pullman name so you can look it up in the database, find its plan number and work from there. Personally, I'd wait and do the KRDS14 bash on the Branchline plan 3410 car. The conversion would involve blanking some windows, adding ventillators, changing from 3 tread to 4 tread steps and probably remodeling the interior. Branchline will be releasing the plan 3410/3410A car in the next 12 months... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:25:02 -0400 From: "Richard Poole" Subject: [PRR] PRR GG-1 QUESTION SIRS, A friend of mine wants to build a GG-1 in 1.6 scale. He has all the drawings necessary EXCEPT the one he needs to get started . . . The WHEEL DRAWING. Can anyone come up with the drawing of a GG-1 wheel or a picture of the wheel straight on with some critical measurements so that it can be modeled? THANKS!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:18:33 EDT Subject: [PRR] White posts --part1_12c.2e98775d.2c4deae9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/21/03 1:11:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: PRR Cast Iron Milepost Markers > From: "Jim Weinschenker" > Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 19:43:31 -0400 > > Hi folks- > > What were the colors of a cast iron milepost marker? > I'm talking about the markers that were triangular in shape with an open > back and about eight feet long. > Were they white with black numbers or black with white numbers? > Thanks... > > Jim Weinschenker > Every one I've seen or photographed was white with black numbers (remember, I'm on Lines West). Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_12c.2e98775d.2c4deae9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 7/21/03 1:11:18 AM Eastern Daylight= Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:


Subject: PRR Cast Iron Milepost= Markers
From: "Jim Weinschenker" <wandwrr@alltel.net>
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 19:43:31 -0400

Hi folks-

What were the colors of a cast iron milepost marker?
I'm talking about the markers that were triangular in shape with an open
back and about eight feet long.
Were they white with black numbers or black with white numbers?
Thanks...

Jim Weinschenker


Every one I've seen or photographed was white with black numbers (remember,=20= I'm on Lines West).

Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_12c.2e98775d.2c4deae9_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] A Weekend to Remember Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:14:16 -0400 Gents and list, I do not wish to brag or boast, but merely report on the recent weekend trip I took on the Warrior Ridge and Pennsylvania 120. Friday morning, my father and I parked in Lancaster and got on the Eastbound Keystone Srvice train to Philadelphia. Once arriving and checking in at our accomidations for the night we had time and decided to ride the Chestnut Hill West line on Septa. (Ex-PRR Chestnut Hill branch.) Boarding at Suburban Station we were happy to find that one of the three Pioneer 3 Silverliners we were riding was still lettered Pennsylvania. This is number 239. So we rode all the way out to Chestnut Hill keeping an eye out for remnants of the good ol' PRR. Part of it was interesting seeing the tube steel columns for Cat poles from the original 1915 electrification. After a wonderful round-trip we both had dinner at the Micro-brewery in the first floor of Reading Terminal Station. ( Now part of the Pennsylvania State Convention Center.) Saturday morning we woke up early, checked out, and walked to get a train to 30th Street Station. For those PRR fans that have never been in downtown Philly, Suburban Station still retains its great art-deco appearence from 1930 as well as Pennsylvania lettered on the exterior facade of the station along wqith all of the Subway steps around the station. Once in 30th street we found out which track the Pennsylvanian would be arriving/departing form and sat with our luggage. When time finally came to board the magic started. Some of us on the trip that knew each other, including some from the PRRT&HS, all decended the steps. It was truly a beautfiful thing to see two Tuscan Red cars at the bottom of the steps. We boarded the cars, stowed out luggage, and got comfortbale for departure. Once we departed the station, Bennet Levin gave out many handouts, including a route guide for our weekend trip to Pittsburgh and a copy of the first Annual Report of the PRR. Once we all settled in the magic truly took ahold of you. Snacks and drinks were readily served and we took in the old main line. About fifteen miuntes into the trip I went to the Parlor of the 120. (Unfortunately due to Amtrak reg'] 19 can't stand on the rear platform when the train is moving.) It was fun to look at the speed gauge and see us traveling at a brisk 80 mph. We ahd a small ten minute layover in Harrisburg where we got out and took pictures of the cars in all thier glory. Then off we went, over Rockville Bridge and moving at an exhilerating 75mph along the Middle Division. Many stories were told along the way. Eric and Bennet Levin are a virtual plethora of information regrading the sights along the main line. Unfortunately, while rounding the curve at Kittaning Point a stack train was on the inside track and blocked out view of people on the curve. Overall, our whole trip to Pittsburgh was wodnerful. On Sunday, departing Pittsburgh was just as wonderful as the previous day. We were maiing good time all the way to Harrisburg and even had a clear view of Horseshoe Curve. The train moved at such a brisk pace that w arrived in Harrisburg 35 minutes early and had plenty of time to take an excellent picture of 120 next to GG1 4859. After leaving Harrisburg Bennet doned an apron and made excellent pizza for dinner. My father and I departed at Lancaster to head home and i still have visions of 120 and Warrior Ridge dancing in my head. It was a great trip and if anyone ever has a chance to ride in those two cars I seriously recomend it. Yours in railroading, John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:08:13 +1000 From: "Mick Molloy" Subject: Re: [PRR] A Weekend to Remember John, After a report like that I can see that I'm going to make a killing,= selling my patented drool mops. :D I am insanely jealous that distance makes it near impossible for me to join= in some of these trips into history. I guess I'll just have to rely on essays like the excellent one you posted. Mick Molloy *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 21/07/2003 at 10:14 PM John Frantz did electronicly scribble: >Gents and list, > > > I do not wish to brag or boast, but merely report on >the recent weekend trip I took on the Warrior Ridge and >Pennsylvania 120. > > > Friday morning, my father and I parked in Lancaster >and got on the Eastbound Keystone Srvice train to >Philadelphia. Once arriving and checking in at our >accomidations for the night we had time and decided to >ride the Chestnut Hill West line on Septa. (Ex-PRR >Chestnut Hill branch.) > > > Boarding at Suburban Station we were happy to find >that one of the three Pioneer 3 Silverliners we were >riding was still lettered Pennsylvania. This is number >239. So we rode all the way out to Chestnut Hill keeping >an eye out for remnants of the good ol' PRR. Part of it >was interesting seeing the tube steel columns for Cat >poles from the original 1915 electrification. After a >wonderful round-trip we both had dinner at the >Micro-brewery in the first floor of Reading Terminal >Station. ( Now part of the Pennsylvania State Convention >Center.) > > > Saturday morning we woke up early, checked out, and >walked to get a train to 30th Street Station. For those >PRR fans that have never been in downtown Philly, Suburban >Station still retains its great art-deco appearence from >1930 as well as Pennsylvania lettered on the exterior >facade of the station along wqith all of the Subway steps >around the station. > > > Once in 30th street we found out which track the >Pennsylvanian would be arriving/departing form and sat >with our luggage. When time finally came to board the >magic started. Some of us on the trip that knew each >other, including some from the PRRT&HS, all decended the >steps. It was truly a beautfiful thing to see two Tuscan >Red cars at the bottom of the steps. We boarded the cars, >stowed out luggage, and got comfortbale for departure. >Once we departed the station, Bennet Levin gave out many >handouts, including a route guide for our weekend trip to >Pittsburgh and a copy of the first Annual Report of the >PRR. Once we all settled in the magic truly took ahold of >you. Snacks and drinks were readily served and we took in >the old main line. About fifteen miuntes into the trip I >went to the Parlor of the 120. (Unfortunately due to >Amtrak reg's we can't stand on the rear platform when the >train is moving.) It was fun to look at the speed gauge >and see us traveling at a brisk 80 mph. > > > We ahd a small ten minute layover in Harrisburg >where >we got out and took pictures of the cars in all thier >glory. Then off we went, over Rockville Bridge and moving >at an exhilerating 75mph along the Middle Division. > > > Many stories were told along the way. Eric and >Bennet >Levin are a virtual plethora of information regrading the >sights along the main line. Unfortunately, while rounding >the curve at Kittaning Point a stack train was on the >inside track and blocked out view of people on the curve. >Overall, our whole trip to Pittsburgh was wodnerful. > > > On Sunday, departing Pittsburgh was just as >wonderful >as the previous day. We were maiing good time all the way >to Harrisburg and even had a clear view of Horseshoe >Curve. The train moved at such a brisk pace that w arrived >in Harrisburg 35 minutes early and had plenty of time to >take an excellent picture of 120 next to GG1 4859. After >leaving Harrisburg Bennet doned an apron and made >excellent pizza for dinner. My father and I departed at >Lancaster to head home and i still have visions of 120 and >Warrior Ridge dancing in my head. > > > It was a great trip and if anyone ever has a chance >to ride in those two cars I seriously recomend it. > >Yours in railroading, > >John > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. And thus finishes this communication from John Frantz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:52:08 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR GG-1 QUESTION Richard, Railroad Model Craleasan Magazine published a detailed set of drawings of the GG-1, back in the 1970's, I think. There was a lot of frame detail, including sections, so there should be sufficient information to build the wheels. Steve Bartlett Richard Poole wrote: SIRS, A friend of mine wants to build a GG-1 in 1.6 scale. He has all the drawings necessary EXCEPT the one he needs to get started . . . The WHEEL DRAWING. Can anyone come up with the drawing of a GG-1 wheel or a picture of the wheel straight on with some critical measurements so that it can be modeled? THANKS!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR GG-1 QUESTION Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:23:24 +0000 I think it was the December 1975 issue. Great drawings; don't know if they have detail of the wheels though. I remember that article well. It was one of those articles that influence you in what railroad you are going to follow or model. It did for me on the Pennsylvania. However, while the article was on the GG-1 and electrified lines, I am now modeling Lines West.....go figure. :P Ted Andrews (laying track at the Kankakee River bridge as well as Van Tower) >From: Stephen Bartlett >To: PRR-Talk >Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR GG-1 QUESTION >Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:52:08 -0400 > >Richard, > Railroad Model Craftsman Magazine published a detailed set of drawings >of the GG-1, back in the 1970's, I think. There was a lot of frame >detail, including sections, so there should be sufficient information to >build the wheels. > >Steve Bartlett > >Richard Poole wrote: >SIRS, > > A friend of mine wants to build a GG-1 in 1.6 scale. He has all >the drawings necessary EXCEPT the one he needs to get started >. . . The WHEEL DRAWING. Can anyone come up with the drawing of a GG-1 >wheel or a picture of the wheel straight on with some >critical measurements so that it can be modeled? > THANKS!! > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:39:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR GG-1 QUESTION Hello Rich, The Dec 1975 issue of Railroad Model Craftman is your best bet. An old issue but I see it all the time at various train shows. The plans also show the exact contours of the end noses. Don't know where you live but at the Great Scale Train Show in Timonium(Baltimore), there is a guy who sells old railroad magazines and there's a good chance he may have that issue. Hope this helps. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR GG-1 QUESTION Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:41:13 +0000 Steve Bartlett wrote: Railroad Model Craftsman Magazine published a detailed set of drawings of the GG-1, back in the 1970's, I think. There was a lot of frame detail, including sections, so there should be sufficient information to build the wheels. The articles and drawings were by Alan Chesley and were in the December 1975 and January 1976 issues. BTW, you can search at http://index.mrmag.com for magazine articles (but not product reviews). BTW Richard, there's a list of survivors at http://spikesys.com/GG1/survive.html . Your friend can go to one of these and measure and photograph to his heart's content if he's within driving distance of one. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR GG-1 QUESTION Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:44:36 +0000 Steve Bartlett wrote: Railroad Model Craftsman Magazine published a detailed set of drawings of the GG-1, back in the 1970's, I think. There was a lot of frame detail, including sections, so there should be sufficient information to build the wheels. The articles and drawings were by Alan Chesley and were in the December 1975 and January 1976 issues. BTW, you can search at http://index.mrmag.com for magazine articles (but not product reviews). BTW Richard, there's a list of survivors at http://spikesys.com/GG1/survive.html . Your friend can go to one of these and measure and photograph to his heart's content if he's within driving distance of one. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: PRR GG-1 QUESTION Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:57:24 -0400 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C35059.2DB71330 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Speaking of GG-1 survivors, I was up in Cooperstown Junction last week and saw the 2 G's does not look like much work has been done on them since last year when I was up there. Two new arrivals though FL-9's. Also the express double door mail box car is looking pretty shabby. I know the PRR only had about 8 of these are their any others remaining? Chris -----Original Message----- From: b.hom@att.net [mailto:b.hom@att.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 9:41 AM To: Stephen Bartlett Cc: PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR GG-1 QUESTION Steve Bartlett wrote: Railroad Model Craftsman Magazine published a detailed set of drawings of the GG-1, back in the 1970's, I think. There was a lot of frame detail, including sections, so there should be sufficient information to build the wheels. The articles and drawings were by Alan Chesley and were in the December 1975 and January 1976 issues. BTW, you can search at http://index.mrmag.com for magazine articles (but not product reviews). BTW Richard, there's a list of survivors at http://spikesys.com/GG1/survive.html . Your friend can go to one of these and measure and photograph to his heart's content if he's within driving distance of one. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C35059.2DB71330 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [PRR] Re: PRR GG-1 QUESTION

Speaking of GG-1 survivors, I was up in Cooperstown = Junction last week and saw the 2 G's does not look like much work has = been done on them since last year when I was up there.  Two new = arrivals though FL-9's.  Also the express double door mail box car = is looking pretty shabby.  I know the PRR only had about 8 of = these are their any others remaining?

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: b.hom@att.net [mailto:b.hom@att.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 9:41 AM
To: Stephen Bartlett
Cc: PRR-Talk
Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR GG-1 QUESTION


Steve Bartlett wrote:
Railroad Model Craftsman Magazine published a = detailed set of drawings
of the GG-1, back in the 1970's, I think.  = There was a lot of frame
detail, including sections, so there should be = sufficient information to
build the wheels.

The articles and drawings were by Alan Chesley and = were in the December 1975
and January 1976 issues.  BTW, you can search = at http://index.mrmag.com for
magazine articles (but not product reviews).

BTW Richard, there's a list of survivors at
http://spikesys.com/GG1/survive.html .  Your = friend can go to one of these and
measure and photograph to his heart's content if = he's within driving distance
of one.


Ben Hom


---------------------------------------------------------------= --------
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C35059.2DB71330-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] BLI GG1 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:59:56 +0000 What is the little notch in the bottom edge of both ends of the carbody all about on BLI G's? It doesn't exist on any other model or the real ones. At first I thought it was where the body mounted to the frame but looking at the first pictures of the unfinished body with the frame from the bottom view it appears it has nothing to do with the body mount. It is really quite evident on the finished models. Much more so than the first pictures. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RBurg74133@aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:38:35 EDT Subject: [PRR] GG-1 Wheels -------------------------------1058891915 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The RMC plans mentioned are really comprehensive, however the only wheel detail is a partial side view showing only about 120 degrees of the full wheel as it appears in the truck frame. The plans are quater inch scale "O" gauge. It might be useful if nothing else is found. Ray Burghart SPF for over 50 years -------------------------------1058891915 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The RMC plans=20 mentioned are really comprehensive, however the only wheel detail is a parti= al side=20 view showing only about 120 degrees of the full wheel as it appears in the t= ruck=20 frame. The plans are quater inch scale "O" gauge. It might be useful if=20 nothing else is found.
 
Ray=20 Burghart
SPF for over 50= =20 years
-------------------------------1058891915-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Lionel is FULL of surprises Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:15:10 -0400 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3507D.3000D1C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" According to MR a UP Veranda turbine. Then 3 more engines in 2004 Chris Chany PS catching up on 200+ post after vacation so if someone answered, Sorry. -----Original Message----- From: mittner@webtv.net [mailto:mittner@webtv.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 9:16 PM To: billlane@comcast.net Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Lionel is FULL of surprises Bill, List, Evidently Lionel Corp. is stretching their legs and expanding their market. If they continue they may be a player to watch in the not so distant future. With their contacts in China who knows what is on the agenda. Anyone have contacts to see what the next Lionel HO loco after the 4-6-6-4's will be?....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3507D.3000D1C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [PRR] Lionel is FULL of surprises

According to MR a UP Veranda turbine. Then 3 more = engines in 2004

Chris Chany

PS catching up on 200+ post after vacation so if = someone answered, Sorry.

-----Original Message-----
From: mittner@webtv.net [mailto:mittner@webtv.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 9:16 PM
To: billlane@comcast.net
Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: Re: [PRR] Lionel is FULL of = surprises


Bill, List,

    Evidently Lionel Corp. is = stretching their legs and expanding their
market. If they continue they may be a player to = watch in the not so
distant future. With their contacts in China who = knows what is on the
agenda. Anyone have contacts to see what the next = Lionel HO loco after
the 4-6-6-4's will be?....Gary 



Come visit my PRR Pages:  Photos, Models, = Historical Items and  Art
Work!

PRR K4s Loco Pics:
http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/

PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.:

http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.h= tml

and......

PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. = Models:

http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html


---------------------------------------------------------------= --------
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C3507D.3000D1C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:48:02 -0400 From: davep Subject: [PRR] Re: Kinzua Bridge suffers heavy damage Dan Learn wrote: > Good afternoon listers, > > Some breaking news was on this morning's newscast. Apparently a number of > support piers on the Kinzua Bridge in Kinzua State Park, Pennsylvania, have > blown over and toppled as a result of a violent windstorm in the mountains. Confirmed. Multiple web stories up. google 'news' search finds several... best dwp ...the net of a million lies... Vernor Vinge There are Many Web Sites which Say Many Things. -me ...for he has read everything, and written nothing... A J Raffles ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Kinzua Bridge Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:35:29 +0000 3 excellent aerial views at www.bradfordera.com. Looks like it is a tear down at this point. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jim Weinschenker" Subject: [PRR] PRR milepost marker Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:27:20 -0400 I would like to thank all who responded to my posting about PRR milepost markers. I now can confirm that I own milepost 27 marker from the Waynesburg & Washington RR. Thanks again. JIM Jim Weinschenker 775 Race Street Waynesburg, PA 15370 M2FQ Publications, Accounts Manager http://www.lightirondigest.com/ http://www.narrowtracks.com/wwrr/index.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Loco 423 was H-10 #8220 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:20:46 -0400 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C35114.D8150D80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" OK Steve has got me interested. Did the PRR have a loco numbered 423? Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: Steve Hanlon [mailto:asciibaron@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 10:44 PM To: PRR Talk Subject: [PRR] H-10 #8220 does anyone have a quality image of this locomotive. i am in the process of purchasing a new house and the number is 8220. i'd like to get a high resolution scan of the negative or photo to make a print to hang in my new house. i know it is a off the wall request. i love the H-10's and having one with my new house number makes it even sweeter. -steve hanlon severn, md ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C35114.D8150D80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [PRR] Loco 423 was H-10 #8220

OK Steve has got me interested.  Did the PRR = have a loco numbered 423?

Chris Chany

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Hanlon [mailto:asciibaron@comcast.net= ]
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 10:44 PM
To: PRR Talk
Subject: [PRR] H-10 #8220


does anyone have a quality image of this = locomotive.  i am in the process of
purchasing a new house and the number is 8220.  = i'd like to get a high
resolution scan of the negative or photo to make a = print to hang in my new
house.

i know it is a off the wall request.  i love the = H-10's and having one with
my new house number makes it even sweeter.

-steve hanlon
severn, md


---------------------------------------------------------------= --------
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C35114.D8150D80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:32:09 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Loco 423 was H-10 #8220 From: Jerry Britton Never pondered checking the number on an address... On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 08:20 AM, Chany, Christopher wrote: > OK Steve has got me interested.=A0 Did the PRR have a loco numbered = 423? 423 was a G1, an H3b, and a B6sb at various times. My address links to a G2, an H1, and an H6. Hmmm. You can look up numbers at Keystone Crossings in the Steam database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/steam/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Hanlon [mailto:asciibaron@comcast.net] > Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 10:44 PM > To: PRR Talk > Subject: [PRR] H-10 #8220 > > > does anyone have a quality image of this locomotive.=A0 i am in the=20 > process of > purchasing a new house and the number is 8220.=A0 i'd like to get a = high > resolution scan of the negative or photo to make a print to hang in my=20= > new > house. > > i know it is a off the wall request.=A0 i love the H-10's and having = one=20 > with > my new house number makes it even sweeter. > > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:18:48 -0500 From: gpierson@trnty.edu Subject: [PRR] New pass cars; BL T1's Hello, everyone, Apologies in advance if the following info has already been posted. Two new PRR passenger cars schemes have just come to my attention in HO. One is MDC offering four of their wooden Pullmans done in the Yellow Kid scheme. Be prepared for sticker shock for these assembled RTR cars (I just e-mailed them to see if they plan to release these in kit form - read "lower prices") but still a neat alternative to the rare Westerfield kit versions. But of more universal interest (and in the "it's about time" category), Walthers plans to do one of their new smooth-side sleepers in the Fleet of Modernism!!!!! Let's hope that they will do some additional cars so that a credable FOM train can be assembled. On another note, a friend who runs a hobby shop recently told me he had heard that Broadway Limited has dropped plans to produce a T1. I hope he's wrong - can anyone comment? George Pierson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] Kinzua Bridge Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:24:36 +0000 I concur. I am directly involved with government funded projects involving historic properties especially bridges. This looks like a complete loss; if they did rebuild now, most of the reconstructed bridge would be with 21st century steel which would defeat the purpose of preservation. Too bad. But then, these bridges, especially the steel ones, were not designed or constructed to last forever. Was this a Pennsy line? Wasn't there another PRR line in Kinzua that was relocated due to a dam project in the early 1960's? Ted Andrews >From: ndbprr@att.net >To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com (PRR-Talk) >Subject: [PRR] Kinzua Bridge >Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:35:29 +0000 > >3 excellent aerial views at www.bradfordera.com. Looks like it is a tear >down >at this point. > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:30:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] New pass cars; BL T1's George, I know someone who talked to the BLI people at the last Timonium show. He had the feeling after the conversation that the T1 was going to be pushed back, not completely canceled. I understood there was a debate going on with their engineers on how or not to articulate the T1. If the T1 was pushed back then more attetion could be put forth on the PRR J's. If the T1 has been canceled, maybe the J will actually be released on time in the spring of 2004?.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:34:09 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] New pass cars; BL T1's George asks: >On another note, a friend who runs a hobby shop recently told me he had heard >that Broadway Limited has dropped plans to produce a T1. I hope he's wrong - >can anyone comment? According to the web page, they are on for a December 2003 release...No test shots to show us yet and this loco has been leap-frogged by many projects, but it seems unreasonable to speculate as to why. If it does make the December ship date, I'm gonna have a ROUGH year with the GG1, M1A and T1 all shipping in 2003!!! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-a co (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] New pass cars; BL T1's Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:35:01 +0000 Interesting regarding the rumor about the BLI and their T-1 project. Keep in mind that it is just a rumor. I would doubt it at this point. If the sales for the PRR GG-1 and M-1 are strong, BLI would be foolish in dropping the plans for the T-1. UNLESS, they caught wind of someone else doing a T-1 and releasing it ahead of BLI's schedule. This is all speculation of course, but don't you guys think it is a bit odd that Walthers is coming out with FOM passenger cars when there is no available motive power to pull them? Sure there is the Bachmann K-4's. But what about streamlined K-4's (both versions: 3678 and 1120). It would be pretty easy for someone to do the toolwork in plastic on these streamlined engines. Perhaps Bachmann or Bowser. Of course, this is all specualtion on my part. But I would not be surprised right now if we got blind sided with a very pleasant surprise within the next 6 months My 2 cents worth, Ted >From: gpierson@trnty.edu >To: PRR-talk >Subject: [PRR] New pass cars; BL T1's >Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:18:48 -0500 > >Hello, everyone, > >Apologies in advance if the following info has already been posted. Two >new >PRR passenger cars schemes have just come to my attention in HO. One is >MDC >offering four of their wooden Pullmans done in the Yellow Kid scheme. Be >prepared for sticker shock for these assembled RTR cars (I just e-mailed >them >to see if they plan to release these in kit form - read "lower prices") but >still a neat alternative to the rare Westerfield kit versions. > >But of more universal interest (and in the "it's about time" category), >Walthers plans to do one of their new smooth-side sleepers in the Fleet of >Modernism!!!!! Let's hope that they will do some additional cars so that a >credable FOM train can be assembled. > >On another note, a friend who runs a hobby shop recently told me he had >heard >that Broadway Limited has dropped plans to produce a T1. I hope he's wrong >- >can anyone comment? > >George Pierson > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:43:13 -0400 From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] New pass cars; BL T1's I spoke with BLI this morning. They have no intention of canceling the T1 project. It is on schedule. They have a pre-production model and pictures will be on their website shortly. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:59:14 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] New pass cars; BL T1's The specialty cars (diner, lounge, observation) will be the real hang-up in doing a 38 FOM Broadway. Walthers should be able to provide the 10-5s and the 4-4-2s. If only the Rivarossi 12-5s were also available in FOM (what are the odds that the colors would match?)... Perhaps the appearance of the Walthers' FOM cars will inspire someone to do decals for the others. The diner can be kitbashed from the Bachmann D78, and the lounge and obs may still be available from USP. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== gpierson@trnty.edu wrote: > Hello, everyone, > > Apologies in advance if the following info has already been posted. Two new > PRR passenger cars schemes have just come to my attention in HO. One is MDC > offering four of their wooden Pullmans done in the Yellow Kid scheme. Be > prepared for sticker shock for these assembled RTR cars (I just e-mailed them > to see if they plan to release these in kit form - read "lower prices") but > still a neat alternative to the rare Westerfield kit versions. > > But of more universal interest (and in the "it's about time" category), > Walthers plans to do one of their new smooth-side sleepers in the Fleet of > Modernism!!!!! Let's hope that they will do some additional cars so that a > credable FOM train can be assembled. > > On another note, a friend who runs a hobby shop recently told me he had heard > that Broadway Limited has dropped plans to produce a T1. I hope he's wrong - > can anyone comment? > > George Pierson > > ------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:08:37 -0500 From: "Stephen Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] New pass cars; BL T1's Ted wrote-- > >This is all speculation of course, but don't you guys >think it is a bit odd that Walthers is coming out with FOM passenger = cars=20 >when there is no available motive power to pull them? Sure there is = the=20 >Bachmann K-4's. But what about streamlined K-4's (both versions: 3678 = >and 1120). It would be pretty easy for someone to do the toolwork in = >plastic on these streamlined engines. Perhaps Bachmann or Bowser. > More than one car in the FOM scheme would be nice, of course, but videos = show FOM cars mixed in with later schemes well into the fifties. A train = of mixed schemes behind diesel power would certainly be prototypical. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] Kinzua Bridge Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:08:06 -0500 I think the line was ex-Erie. PRR may have gone under. -----Original Message----- From: Ted Andrews [mailto:ted_andrews@msn.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 8:25 AM To: ndbprr@att.net; Prr-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Kinzua Bridge I concur. I am directly involved with government funded projects involving historic properties especially bridges. This looks like a complete loss; if they did rebuild now, most of the reconstructed bridge would be with 21st century steel which would defeat the purpose of preservation. Too bad. But then, these bridges, especially the steel ones, were not designed or constructed to last forever. Was this a Pennsy line? Wasn't there another PRR line in Kinzua that was relocated due to a dam project in the early 1960's? Ted Andrews >From: ndbprr@att.net >To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com (PRR-Talk) >Subject: [PRR] Kinzua Bridge >Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:35:29 +0000 > >3 excellent aerial views at www.bradfordera.com. Looks like it is a tear >down >at this point. > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:09:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] New pass cars; BL T1's Ted, Way back when Bowser just started releasing their Cabooses I sent off a letter, (nope email wasn't too popular yet) to them explaining what I did with one of their K4s's, I told them this would be a rather easy conversion for them to do. Sorry for this bad photo, but this is what I sent them. http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/b1120.JPG It is a Bowser K4 converted into a 1940 Streamined K4s. Their reply was they were in full production of their new Cabooses, (N5c's at the time) at this point and have no interest but liked the idea. But you bring up that good idea again. If Bowser could produce a high quality Plastic Streamlined K4 Boiler Shroud (with plenty of lead weight added) to fit their K4 mechanism and an all New Tender, then I would imagine they could be a source of power for any future FOM cars, trains. My K4 conversion, although one of my very early modeling attempts, prooves something could be done. I removed all the domes, stack, cab rivets, etc and added "steel putty". Then filed and sanded the putty to shape forming the Streamline effect. For the Pilot I used a Westside K5 solid pilot. For the Tender, I used a Low side version, removed all rivet detail and added steel putty for the shround. I can probably do a much better job these days, both in modeling the K4 and taking a better picture. Wonder what one of these would look like in 1:29th scale? naaaaaa, I have another project for that lined up already.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] New pass cars; BL T1's Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:22:17 +0000 The question that nobody but insiders at BLI can answer is if their growth plans and accounts receiveable are in sync. They have been on an extremely aggresive plan from the start probably predicated on a very large acceptance and purchase of their products. 9/11 and the economic downturn have probably had some impact on potential sales and plans. It would appear that somebody in that organization has very deep pockets to fund the diework alone. If they are inventing every drive they have additional costs that would stagger most of us. I suspect that these will not be limited runs but will be rerun with time to maximize profits but that is speculation on my part. The hobby is replete with people who have had big ideas until reality took hold. I for one am rather pleased that I do not have any deposit money with them. I find it rather annoying that a company with a PRR reference in their name is continually pushing back the PRR offerings. Why? With the exception of the sound and cab steps I really don't see any great breakthroughs with their G. The shell isn't that great IMHO and to my eyes has some glaring errors. One screw up could cause some projects to be canceled. Please note the word COULD. That is speculation also. > George asks: > >On another note, a friend who runs a hobby shop recently told me he had heard > >that Broadway Limited has dropped plans to produce a T1. I hope he's wrong - > >can anyone comment? > > According to the web page, they are on for a December 2003 release...No > test shots to show us yet and this loco has been leap-frogged by many > projects, but it seems unreasonable to speculate as to why. If it does > make the December ship date, I'm gonna have a ROUGH year with the GG1, M1A > and T1 all shipping in 2003!!! > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:14:07 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] New pass cars; BL T1's >Ted wrote-- >> >>This is all speculation of course, but don't you guys >>think it is a bit odd that Walthers is coming out with FOM passenger cars >>when there is no available motive power to pull them? Sure there is the >>Bachmann K-4's. But what about streamlined K-4's (both versions: 3678 >>>and 1120). It would be pretty easy for someone to do the toolwork in >>>plastic on these streamlined engines. Perhaps Bachmann or Bowser. >> >More than one car in the FOM scheme would be nice, of course, but videos >show FOM cars mixed in with later schemes well into the fifties. A train >of mixed schemes behind diesel power would certainly be prototypical. Indeed, non-modified steam too... a photo in the Highline edition on the Octararo branch shows a FOM painted modernized PB70 behind a G5. In looking at Pullman 12-1 and Tourist cars I have also noted some FOM painted UNMODIFIED cars...such as Daniel Webster, a plan 3410A 12-1. Perhaps Branchline will run this scheme? A couple of tourist cars are listed in the PRRT&HS book as well. Any idea where the FOM tourist or 12-1 cars were assigned? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] Kinzua Bridge Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:09:41 -0400 Where are the pictures located on the newspaper website? Lew ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 4:35 PM Subject: [PRR] Kinzua Bridge > 3 excellent aerial views at www.bradfordera.com. Looks like it is a tear down > at this point. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach" Subject: Re: [PRR] New pass cars; BL T1's Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:21:35 -0400 I don't have a lot of real concern about BLI's success for a number of reasons and here they are: 1. While we are experiencing a period of slower economic growth, the HO scale portion of the hobby seems to be doing better than ever. Don't look at just BLI products, but also look toward the number of products that Walthers is introducing this year. The hobby doesn't seem to be cutting back any at all, but rather growing. 2. BLI has made sound access able to those who don't have DCC. Not only that but the sound is available at a rather low price. Compare the price of the BLI Class A versus the Marklin Big Boy or Rivarossi Allegheny. Both fine models, but no sound for plain DC operators. Or no sound at all for the Allegheny. 3. The addition of BLI to the market place will only make the market place give us better products. The case for this is easy to see if you look at the O Gauge market. Since MTH started bringing out high quality affordable engines in the mid 1990's Lionel and now K-Line have had to follow suit. 4. The market is still pretty starved for steam engines. When you compare the number of steam versus the number of Diesels, their are still only a handful of steam. 5. The GG1, M1a/b, and J1a have a lot of appeal beyond the Pennsy modeler. I would put the GG1 up there with the Hudson and Big Boy as far as famous engines go. Just look at the fact that there are so many O Gauge models of the GG1 available. I have also noted that a couple of NKP modelers on the NKP list my dad is on are going to buy either the M1a/b or the J1a. The Pennsy T1 probably has a lot of appeal outside of Pennsy modelers too. 6. BLI now has a pretty good track record with their Hudson and Class A. Both seemed to sell very well, actually so well that a second run of the Hudson's was done. While I do see some things that they could have done better on the Class A I have, I still think it is a great deal at the price. They also have shown us samples of their M1a, GG1, USRA Heavy 2-8-2, and E7a&b. These engines exist, they are not vapor wear. 7. BLI also has experience in the hobby with their ties to Oriental that brought out some fine brass engines. This means they have business relationships with manufacturers in the Asian market. 8. BLI also seems to listen to us modelers/ customers. This is why they decided on doing the Class A instead of the N&W J and why they changed the number on one of their GG1's. We as modelers have a vested interested in BLI succeeding because they are producing Pennsy engines that have not been produced in plastic before, which may bring more people into the Pennsy modeling family. Also, competition in the market place is great for the hobby, it not only gives us more choices, but better products. I never would have thought I would have sound in my HO scale steam engines without spending the money on DCC. I also never thought I would have nice models of Pennsy steam in plastic & a GG1 with to boot! Sorry for the rant, Eric Lauterbach ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] New pass cars; BL T1's Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:40:29 -0500 The proliferation in the number of products may be due to the opening up of commerce in China, where very cheap labor is available, rather than any growth in the NUMBER of people participating in the hobby. I suspect that there has been little growth in the sale of Model Railroader, which is sort of a barometer of how many participate in the hobby. There "World's Greatest Hobby" campaign was implemented in part to encourage more people to enter into the hobby. And, there is almost no growth in the NMRA membership despite its recruiting efforts. The other thing thatis disturbing is demographics. The average age of the model railroader hobbyist is actually increasing. -----Original Message----- From: Eric Lauterbach [mailto:ealauterbach@earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 12:22 PM To: prr-talk Subject: Re: [PRR] New pass cars; BL T1's I don't have a lot of real concern about BLI's success for a number of reasons and here they are: 1. While we are experiencing a period of slower economic growth, the HO scale portion of the hobby seems to be doing better than ever. Don't look at just BLI products, but also look toward the number of products that Walthers is introducing this year. The hobby doesn't seem to be cutting back any at all, but rather growing. 2. BLI has made sound access able to those who don't have DCC. Not only that but the sound is available at a rather low price. Compare the price of the BLI Class A versus the Marklin Big Boy or Rivarossi Allegheny. Both fine models, but no sound for plain DC operators. Or no sound at all for the Allegheny. 3. The addition of BLI to the market place will only make the market place give us better products. The case for this is easy to see if you look at the O Gauge market. Since MTH started bringing out high quality affordable engines in the mid 1990's Lionel and now K-Line have had to follow suit. 4. The market is still pretty starved for steam engines. When you compare the number of steam versus the number of Diesels, their are still only a handful of steam. 5. The GG1, M1a/b, and J1a have a lot of appeal beyond the Pennsy modeler. I would put the GG1 up there with the Hudson and Big Boy as far as famous engines go. Just look at the fact that there are so many O Gauge models of the GG1 available. I have also noted that a couple of NKP modelers on the NKP list my dad is on are going to buy either the M1a/b or the J1a. The Pennsy T1 probably has a lot of appeal outside of Pennsy modelers too. 6. BLI now has a pretty good track record with their Hudson and Class A. Both seemed to sell very well, actually so well that a second run of the Hudson's was done. While I do see some things that they could have done better on the Class A I have, I still think it is a great deal at the price. They also have shown us samples of their M1a, GG1, USRA Heavy 2-8-2, and E7a&b. These engines exist, they are not vapor wear. 7. BLI also has experience in the hobby with their ties to Oriental that brought out some fine brass engines. This means they have business relationships with manufacturers in the Asian market. 8. BLI also seems to listen to us modelers/ customers. This is why they decided on doing the Class A instead of the N&W J and why they changed the number on one of their GG1's. We as modelers have a vested interested in BLI succeeding because they are producing Pennsy engines that have not been produced in plastic before, which may bring more people into the Pennsy modeling family. Also, competition in the market place is great for the hobby, it not only gives us more choices, but better products. I never would have thought I would have sound in my HO scale steam engines without spending the money on DCC. I also never thought I would have nice models of Pennsy steam in plastic & a GG1 with to boot! Sorry for the rant, Eric Lauterbach ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:29:24 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: RE: [PRR] New pass cars; BL T1's Marvin sez: >The proliferation in the number of products may be due to the opening up of >commerce in China, where very cheap labor is available, rather than any >growth in the NUMBER of people participating in the hobby. I suspect that >there has been little growth in the sale of Model Railroader, which is sort >of a barometer of how many participate in the hobby. There "World's >Greatest Hobby" campaign was implemented in part to encourage more people to >enter into the hobby. And, there is almost no growth in the NMRA membership >despite its recruiting efforts. Whoa!! I won't touch the China issue, since lots of folks here like to complain about how expensive everything is, but I will have to point out that neither of your other two measures are appropriate measures of "participation" in the hobby of Model Railroading, IN SPITE of what each would like you to believe!! Looking at the more basic question of how these new products "fit in" the market, it is not clear at all if the product ranges represent real growth or just segmentation of the market...interesting, but totally unavaialble figures might include total number of boxcar models sold in 1973 vs 2003 for example... Me, I'm just happy that I have the choice of models I do today, and I'm doing my level best to support the good manufacturers by buing their products (and letting my wallet speak just as loadly when I don't like a product....) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:44:14 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: RE: [PRR] Kinzua Bridge --- "Cadwell, Marvin L" wrote: > I think the line was ex-Erie. "Yes" and "sort of". The New York, Lake Erie and Western and the Buffalo, Rochester and Pittsburgh were both projected south through Bradford around the same time, both intending reach coal properties in Elk and Jefferson Counties. NYLE&W built from Bradford to near Johnsonburg, BR&P built from there to Walston (just south of Punxsutawney). Each granted the other trackage rights and the right to build spur tracks. So, as originally conceived, the Kinzua Bridge was owned by NYLE&W but used jiontly with BR&P. (I'm playing fast and loose with predecessor names.) Later BR&P (or perhaps B&O by that time) found the bridge too light to support their locomotives and so built a new line from Bradford, around the head of th evalley crossed by the bridge, rejioning the Erie at Mt. Jewett. Later Erie found themselves with the same problem and dropped use of the bridge, using the B&O route. The amusing part is that had NYLE&W followed the route later used by BR&P/B&O to bypass the bridge, there would have never been a Kinzua Bridge. It is said that one of the promoters of the NYLE&W line insisted on crossing the valley as an impressive gateway to what he viewed as a new frontier. > PRR may have gone under. There was a railroad in the valley of Kinzua Creek, but it was not PRR. At one time you could have followed the track under the bridge westward several miles along Kinzua Creek, and come out at a junction with PRR along the Allegheny River. The last part of your trip would have been along what became the PRR Kinzua Branch, but I believe the part under the bridge was long gone by the time the Kinzua Branch became part of PRR. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] What the ---- is wrong List, I can't believe I can not figure this out. I feel like a rookie! Here is what I am suppose to do for someone. I am to add the close coupling to a Proto 200 E7 using the Kadee #453 Conversion. Ok sounds simple. Following the instructions enclosed I removed the Body. Pilot and original coupler clips. No problem. I then constructed the new KD swing bracket and the #30 Coupler kit. Still no problem. Now they say to install on underside of chassis. Big Problem. After mounting and installing the 0-80 screw and nut to hold it in place. nothing sems to be correct. The mounting screw now interfers with the Truck, no clearence at all, it actually makes the truck sit cockeyed. It also appears the coupler sits way to far back and probably won't stick out far enough to be able to couple to anything. Now, the drawing supplied in the instructions shows the chassis has 2 possible holes for mounting a coupler. If actuality, the model only has 1. I have yet to try the rear coupler. As the subject of this email states. What the ---- is going on? Did Proto change chassis style and now the KD 453 dosn't work? Am I doing something Stupid? Inquiring minds need to know. Please share info if you have done this simple conversion before...Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Charles Chandler" Subject: [PRR] PRR Phila. Passenger Ops. Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:10:55 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C35134.FF363E00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Listmembers, I am thinking of modeling the Phila. area on my next = layout. It was posted before that 30th st. station took up too much = space when including the coach yards. My question is just what was this = yard used for? Seems to me that it would be a very busy place. Didn't = "clockers" begin and end here? Wouldn't" there be Pullman, dining car, = business car, mail / express ect. activity? I don't want to include the = yard if it's just a place to park coaches with little operational = interest. Any thoughts? C. Chandler ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C35134.FF363E00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Listmembers, I am thinking of modeling = the Phila.=20 area on my next layout. It was posted before that 30th st. = station took up=20 too much space when including the coach yards. My question is just what = was this=20 yard used for? Seems to me that it would be a very busy place.=20 Didn't "clockers" begin and end here? Wouldn't" there be Pullman, = dining=20 car, business car, mail / express ect. activity? I don't = want to=20 include the yard if it's just a place to park coaches with little = operational=20 interest. Any thoughts? C. Chandler
------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C35134.FF363E00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:47:33 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Kinzua Bridge --------------020308020902090504010504 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings to Bob, Jerry, and the List: The following should help: http://www.postgazette.com/journal/photos_bygallery.asp?special=Collapse+of+the+Kinzua+Viaduct For orientation purposes, Kinzua Viaduct was on the ex-Erie RR Bradford Division, surrounded closely by several PRR routes but not directly served by any of them. The north-south branch on which it was located extended southward from the Erie main line between Olean, N.Y. (connection with PRR Harrisburg-Buffalo line) and Salamanca, N.Y. (PRR Oil City, Pa.-Olean., N.Y. line). PRR also served Bradford, Pa., which the Erie line traversed on its way to Kinzua. South of the bridge, the Erie line continued to Johnsonburg, Pa. (on the PRR P&E Emporium, Pa.-Erie, Pa., route) and Brockway, Pa.(location of coal mines and connections with Pittsburg & Shawmut RR and Buffalo, Rochester & Pittsburgh/B&O). At the small town of Mount Jewett, Pa., four miles south of the bridge, a connection existed between the Erie line and an old B&O route (former Pittsburgh & Western narrow-gauge), which was the northern end of a line that meandered to Kane, Pa. (also on PRR/P&E Emporium-Erie line) and through the Allegheny National Forest past Clarion, Pa., into Butler, Pa., (on PRR's Butler Branch). The Knox & Kane tourist railroad uses the ex-B&O from Marienville north to Kane, where it crosses under the ex-PRR (ex-P&E, now Allegheny & Eastern) to Mount Jewett, from which point it uses the former Erie for the last four miles out to the bridge. K&K not only rebuilt the abandoned Erie line to the bridge, but also built a wye on the north side of the bridge. K&K is, as anyone who's seen it will attest, a collection of engines and rolling stock from widely varying sources, and you could (and probably still can) find PRR heritage there. The 2-8-0 engine #38 is a former Huntgindon & Broad Top Mountain RR Baldwin that carries a PRR tender. There's an F30 flat car used for m/w work, and (less sure about this) I believe that one of the cabooses you could/can rent to sleep in might be an N8. Having ridden the line a few years ago, I can say that what struck me most was the difference in engineering standards, from the up-and-down, chase-your-tail curves and hills of the former P&W/B&O narrow-gauge portion of the line (Marienville-Mount Jewett, about 40 miles) to the relatively smooth, straight, and level alignment of the former Erie (Mount Jewett to the viaduct, 4 miles). I remember thinking, once the train got on the former Erie, that the riding quality changed so markedly that it seemed like the Northeast Corridor by comparison. All at a giddy 20 mph, of course! It wasn't PRR, but the Kinzua was a stunning example of bridge engineering, ranking up there with all of the other great railroad bridges of Pennsylvania -- Nicholson, Tunkhannock, Rockville. To see it, ride over it, or hike under it -- all were breathtaking experiences. Its loss to all of us involved in railroad history and preservation is immeasurable. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. robert netzlof wrote: >--- "Lewis J. Matt PhD" wrote: > > >>Where are the pictures located on the newspaper website? >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: >>To: "PRR-Talk" >>Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 4:35 PM >>Subject: [PRR] Kinzua Bridge >> >> >> >>>3 excellent aerial views at www.bradfordera.com. >>> >>> > >"The moving finger writes, and having writ, moves on." > >The URL points to today's top story, whatever day "today" is. >Pictures yesterday, something else today. The Era doesn't have an >online archive. > >===== >Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > --------------020308020902090504010504 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings to Bob, Jerry, and the List:

The following should help:

http://www.postgazette.com/journal/photos_bygallery.asp?special=Collapse+of+the+Kinzua+Viaduct

For orientation purposes, Kinzua Viaduct was on the ex-Erie RR Bradford Division, surrounded closely by several PRR routes but not directly served by any of them. The north-south branch on which it was located extended southward from the Erie main line between Olean, N.Y. (connection with PRR Harrisburg-Buffalo line) and Salamanca, N.Y. (PRR Oil City, Pa.-Olean., N.Y. line). PRR also served Bradford, Pa., which the Erie line traversed on its way to Kinzua.

South of the bridge, the Erie line continued to Johnsonburg, Pa. (on the PRR P&E Emporium, Pa.-Erie, Pa., route) and Brockway, Pa.(location of coal mines and connections with Pittsburg & Shawmut RR and Buffalo, Rochester & Pittsburgh/B&O). At the small town of Mount Jewett, Pa., four miles south of the bridge, a connection existed between the Erie line and an old B&O route (former Pittsburgh & Western narrow-gauge), which was the northern end of a line that meandered to Kane, Pa. (also on PRR/P&E Emporium-Erie line) and through the Allegheny National Forest past Clarion, Pa., into Butler, Pa., (on PRR's Butler Branch).

The Knox & Kane tourist railroad uses the ex-B&O from Marienville north to Kane, where it crosses under the ex-PRR (ex-P&E, now Allegheny & Eastern) to Mount Jewett, from which point it uses the former Erie for the last four miles out to the bridge. K&K not only rebuilt the abandoned Erie line to the bridge, but also built a wye on the north side of the bridge. K&K is, as anyone who's seen it will attest, a collection of engines and rolling stock from widely varying sources, and you could (and probably still can) find PRR heritage there. The 2-8-0 engine #38 is a former Huntgindon & Broad Top Mountain RR Baldwin that carries a PRR tender. There's an F30 flat car used for m/w work, and (less sure about this) I believe that one of the cabooses you could/can rent to sleep in might be an N8.

Having ridden the line a few years ago, I can say that what struck me most was the difference in engineering standards, from the up-and-down, chase-your-tail curves and hills of the former P&W/B&O narrow-gauge portion of the line (Marienville-Mount Jewett, about 40 miles) to the relatively smooth, straight, and level alignment of the former Erie (Mount Jewett to the viaduct, 4 miles). I remember thinking, once the train got on the former Erie, that the riding quality changed so markedly that it seemed like the Northeast Corridor by comparison. All at a giddy 20 mph, of course!

It wasn't PRR, but the Kinzua was a stunning example of bridge engineering, ranking up there with all of the other great railroad bridges of Pennsylvania -- Nicholson, Tunkhannock, Rockville. To see it, ride over it, or hike under it -- all were breathtaking experiences. Its loss to all of us involved in railroad history and preservation is immeasurable.

Dan Cupper
Harrisburg, Pa.


robert netzlof wrote:
--- "Lewis J. Matt PhD" <lmatt@alltel.net> wrote:
  
Where are the pictures located on the newspaper website?

----- Original Message -----
From: <ndbprr@att.net>
To: "PRR-Talk" <Prr-Talk@dsop.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 4:35 PM
Subject: [PRR] Kinzua Bridge

    
3 excellent aerial views at www.bradfordera.com.
      

"The moving finger writes, and having writ, moves on."

The URL points to today's top story, whatever day "today" is.
Pictures yesterday, something else today. The Era doesn't have an
online archive.

=====
Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

--------------020308020902090504010504-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:46:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] What the ---- is wrong Lists, Ahhhhh, I found the problem!!! It would help if I was supplied the correct conversion kit. KD #453 package states this is for Life-Like Proto 2000 "E" Units. I just checked out the Kadee website. There it says #453 is for Proto 2000 E9's. I continued down the list, sure enough KD#455 is for Proto E7 A-B and the PA/PB Units. There is where the goof is. I need #455 instead. I guess the owner assumed #453's were for ALL E Units. Now to pack it all up and return for exchange.......Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Pennsy Nut" Subject: [PRR] Hobby Spending Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:04:59 -0500 Hi Y'all Taking Eric's point a little further: > 1. While we are experiencing a period of slower economic growth, the HO scale portion of the hobby seems to be doing better than ever. Don't look at just BLI products, but also look toward the number of products that Walthers is introducing this year. The hobby doesn't seem to be cutting back any at all, but rather growing. < History shows that hobby dollars spent do NOT drop during "bad times", because people still spend their dollars during slumps. I don't have the facts in front of me, nor can verify this. But I have read it. And - believe it. I spend about the same now as I did when working, on the hobby. And that's a higher proportion of my income and expenses. i.e. A higher percentage. I won't comment further, just keep your perspective. Spend what you can, on what you want/need. And don't worry. We'll get through this. We always have, and always will. America is The Greatest Country in the World. Make no mistake about that. And to the Brits and Aussies - Y'all are included, mainly because y'all are right in there with us. French - well they are a different sort. LOL To keep this Pennsy. Thank goodness, BLI is doing what they are. I can't afford them, so it's up to the rest of you that can. Thanks. Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist PRRTHS #1204 & Proud SPF ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RBurg74133@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:24:00 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Phila. Passenger Ops. -------------------------------1058999040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In your wildest dreams you could never replicate what went on at 30th St. coach yards Clockers Arriving and departing U.S.Post Office facility was serviced by rail Cars added to New York Bound Trains Cars removed from Washington Trains Harrisburg trains arrive and depart PRSL trains to and from the Jersey Shore There was significant headend traffic with REA There were no less than 12 switch crews on 1st and 2nd tricks and 6 on third using various Baldwin switchers. Business cars were stored in the station I doubt many other terminals had more activity. Ray Burghart SPF for over 50 years -------------------------------1058999040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In your wildest= dreams=20 you could never replicate what went on at 30th St. coach yards
Clockers Arrivi= ng and=20 departing
U.S.Post=20 Office facility was serviced by rail
Cars added to N= ew York=20 Bound Trains
Cars removed fr= om=20 Washington Trains
Harrisburg trai= ns=20 arrive and depart
PRSL trains to=20= and=20 from the Jersey Shore
There was signi= ficant=20 headend traffic with REA
There were no l= ess=20 than 12 switch crews on 1st and 2nd tricks and 6 on third using various Bald= win=20 switchers. Business cars were stored in the station
I doubt many ot= her=20 terminals had more activity.
Ray=20 Burghart
SPF for over 50= =20 years
-------------------------------1058999040-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:36:10 -0500 Subject: [PRR] prr talk: streamlined K-4 From: beth capl caples I am dying for someone to convince either Bachman or Bowser to produce one of these babies for the simple fact that I can't afford brass!! It would probably even sell better than an ordinary K-4 because of it's shear beauty. Modelers who don't even model the PRR would buy one just because you gotta have one. How many people bought a N&W J or a NYC streamlined Hudson? Most of the buyers probably don't even model those roads! They buy them because their from the streamlined era when trains were a thing of beauty. John Caples ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "E. Mike" Subject: [PRR] PRR Radio Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:58:45 +0000 I was idly looking through www.radio-locator.com and on a larf I ran through some interesting letter combinations and was surprised to find this little gem: WPRR-FM 100.1 MHz Altoona, Pennsylvania "Todays Hit Music" Station Owner: Vital Licenses, LLC find stations owned by Vital Licenses, LLC this feature is only available to Gold Customers Station Address: 2727 West Albert Drive Altoona, PA 16602 Phone: 814-944-9456 Fax: 814-944-0250 Unfortunately it is a Top 40 station, but you never know, it could have a format change and broadcast ambient acanner traffic along with some other rail related fare. WPRR, all railroad all the time. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Chrisandbelton2@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:15:41 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] New pass cars; BL T1's --part1_7c.3b7bbb54.2c507f2d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "On schedule" to me means an October 2003 ship date. Some have reported here that the date has been slipped to December 2003.... --part1_7c.3b7bbb54.2c507f2d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "On schedule" to me means an October 2003 ship date.&n= bsp; Some have reported here that the date has been slipped to December 2003= .... --part1_7c.3b7bbb54.2c507f2d_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:23:34 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] New pass cars; BL T1's From: Jerry @ Pennsy On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 08:15 PM, Chrisandbelton2@aol.com wrote: > "On schedule" to me means an October 2003 ship date.=A0 Some have =20 > reported here that the date has been slipped to December 2003.... The T1 ship date was moved to December SEVERAL MONTHS AGO by BLI. You =20= will not see them in October. ------------------------------------------------------------------------=20= ------------------------- Jerry Britton, president jbritton@dsop.com Merchandise Service 717-938-4270 A Division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com= ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ALGUCKES@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:59:27 EDT Subject: [PRR] State of the Hobby --part1_6e.304e9f6c.2c50977f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Model Railroader has stated that their circulation is growing. The NMRA membership problem is old news. The problem has been exacerbated by the recent dues increase. I have been a member for 25+ years to support the hobby. However I think the NMRA often "shoots itself in the foot" as evidenced by the recent selections for the "Living Legends" series of special run cars. In addition the hobby is much more fragmented than it was 30 years ago. The variety of magazines and historical society publications are amazing. All quality publications. Large scale, especially in the garden is a significant growth area. Finally the Internet discussion groups have really "Bu interesting information regarding international activities available. However, make no mistake Model Railroading is now primarily an adult hobby. On the bright side regarding growth, all my grandchildren and their friends are interested in trains, and my adult son has a large garden railroad with digital command control and loves the Maine two foot gauge prototypes. The message is mixed, but I think the hobby is pretty healthy. In fact, given the competition from video games and fantasy card collecting I think the hobby has more of presence with young people than I would have expected. Al --part1_6e.304e9f6c.2c50977f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Model Railroader has stated that their circul= ation is growing. The NMRA membership problem is old news. The problem has b= een exacerbated by the recent dues increase. I have been a member for 25+ ye= ars to support the hobby. However I think the NMRA often "shoots itself in t= he foot" as evidenced by the recent selections for the "Living Legends" seri= es of special run cars.

In addition the hobby is much more fragmented than it was 30 years ago. The=20= variety of magazines and historical society publications are amazing. All qu= ality publications. Large scale, especially in the garden is a significant g= rowth area. Finally the Internet discussion groups have really made interest= ing information regarding international activities available. 

However, make no mistake Model Railroading is now primarily an adult hobby.=20= On the bright side regarding growth, all my grandchildren and their friends=20= are interested in trains, and my adult son has a large garden railroad with=20= digital command control and loves the Maine two foot gauge prototypes. The m= essage is mixed, but I think the hobby is pretty healthy. In fact, given the= competition from video games and fantasy card collecting I think the hobby=20= has more of presence with young people than I would have expected.

Al --part1_6e.304e9f6c.2c50977f_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: [PRR] Kinzua Bridge - some history: Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:26:49 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C35169.827DE310 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Phoenix Bridge Company built the original viaduct over the Kinzua Valley, Bradford County, PA in 1882 for the New York, Lake Erie and Western Coal and Railroad Company. Designed by Adolphus Bonzano, it was the highest railroad bridge in the world, with 20 towers ranging from 20 to 280 feet in height and a total elevation of 301 feet above the creek. The length of the iron work on the viaduct was 2053 feet. "The towers are each composed of Phoenix columns for the main compression-members and transverse struts, with longitudinal struts of four latticed angles and diagonal tension-rods arranged in pairs as shown (I did not include the diagrams). Both longitudinal and transverse bracing were designed in view of the extraordinary circumstances of the location. Very high winds sweep through the gorge and produce conditions requiring the most careful considerations in connection with such an elevated structure, while its vibrations, caused by moving trains, call for scarcely less attention. A train of consolidation engines formed the moving load under which the viaduct was designed for.. Besides the railway track, the viaduct is provided with a sidewalk on each side." Description from 1888 Album of Designs. The bridge was replaced in 1900 by a steel one to accommodate heavier trains. Courtesy of Frank A. Weer. The above is found in the book "Without Fitting, Filing, or Chipping - An Illustrated History of the Phoenix Bridge Company" by Thomas R. Winpenny. A Phoenix Column is a three section iron (not steel) column. A really great example is located at the Knoebles Amusement Park, on their live steam amusement railroad. Cos Wayne S. Betty Cos Communications, Inc. Small business IT services. Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone Tracking #: 8CD73AFCAA8915448AD81CC296771C50D9314B49 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C35169.827DE310 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Th= e Phoenix Bridge Company built the original viaduct over the Kinzua = Valley, Bradford County, PA in 1882 for the New York, Lake Erie and Western Coal = and Railroad Company.  = Designed by Adolphus Bonzano, it was the highest railroad bridge in the world, with = 20 towers ranging from 20 to 280 feet in height and  a total elevation of 301 feet above the creek.  The length of the iron work on = the viaduct was 2053 feet.

&#= 8220;The towers are each composed of Phoenix columns for the main = compression-members and transverse struts, with longitudinal struts of four latticed angles = and diagonal tension-rods arranged in pairs as shown (I did not include the diagrams).  Both = longitudinal and transverse bracing were designed in view of the extraordinary circumstances of the location.  Very high winds = sweep through the gorge and produce conditions requiring the most careful considerations in connection with such an elevated structure, while its = vibrations, caused by moving trains, call for scarcely less attention.  =

A = train of consolidation engines formed the moving load under which the viaduct was = designed for…. Besides the railway track, the viaduct is provided with a = sidewalk on each side.”

De= scription from 1888 Album of Designs.  = The bridge was replaced in 1900 by a steel one to accommodate heavier = trains. Courtesy of Frank A. Weer.

 

Th= e above is found in the book “Without Fitting, Filing, or Chipping – = An Illustrated History of the Phoenix Bridge Company” by Thomas R. = Winpenny.

A = Phoenix Column is a three section iron (not steel) column.  A really great example is located at the Knoebles = Amusement Park, on their live steam amusement = railroad.

 

 

Cos

=

Wayne S. = Betty

Cos Communications, Inc.

=

Small = business IT services.

=

 

Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road

=

NMRA, = MER, Susquehanna Div, 11

=

NHRS, = Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061

=

http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm

at the west end of the PRR electrified = zone

=

<= font color=3Dblack> <= /p>

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C35169.827DE310-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:07:46 GMT Subject: [PRR] Increase in Model Railroaders From: Dominic Mazoch These days, I think one would have to add those who subscribe to Model Railroader, CTT, and Garden Railways. Some people are gravitting to the larger guages, and MR may not be their cup of tea! Dominic Mazoch ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:13:33 GMT Subject: [PRR] MTH/Railking "7 light signal" From: Dominic Mazoch I just got the MTH/RK "7-light" PL signal. Looks neat as the yellow lights change aspects. Also, you can wire it so the light below the circle lights when the "circle's" aspect is: 000. Once I find out, I will let you know. .....7 lights in the circle, and one below...that would make it an 8 light circle....wonder if MTH can add? Dominic Mazoch ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 04:55:09 -0400 From: Bill Subject: Re: [PRR] MTH/Railking "7 light signal" Dominic Mazoch wrote: > > I just got the MTH/RK "7-light" PL signal. Looks neat as the yellow lights change aspects. > > Also, you can wire it so the light below the circle lights when the "circle's" aspect is: 000. Dominic, The MTH "Pennsy Signal Bridge" is also well done as it utilizes the same 7 light signal (2 of them) with the option of adding 2 more. I only wish I had enough space to faithfully model the actual trackage to use the signal bridges. I haven't finished wiring the layout so I haven't seen them in action yet. Both Rich Foster and Andy Edleman, his two top assistants, are also very responsive as to correcting any mistakes. I recently gave Andy a copy of a PRR document (courtesy of Chuck Blardone) describing the correct colors used for PRR steam engines from the 1930's. All I need now are the color drift cards. IIRC, one of Mike Wolf's grandparents worked for the 'P' Company as did his wife's father. He also spent part of his childhood living in the Altoona area. So it's no surprise that Mike's company does as much Pennsylvania product as it does. His recent Premier DD-1's were almost instant sell-outs. Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:24:19 -0400 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] photos Three sources of photos (for sale) of PRR locos and other stuff: 1) Harold Volrath (no e-mail of web site) Mr. Vollrath has over 40,000 photos available. If you are interested in ordering from him, send $1.00 and a self-addressed, stamped envelope for particulars about the collection. Then $1.00 for----h railroad list you are interested in, Bear in mind that New York Central, Santa Fe, and other mainline lists are very large, so use an appropriate envelope. Snail mail to: Harold K. Vollrath 1000 West 97th Terrace Kansas City, MO 64114 and 2) Phil's Rail Photos 5 East B St. Brunswick, MD 21716 see http://www.philsphotography.com/ and 3) John C. La Rue, Jr. 25,000 BLACK-AND-WHITE PRINTS ARE AVAILABLE FROM JOHN C. LA RUE, JR., 27491 DUVERNAY DRIVE, BONITA SPRINGS, FL, 34135-6029 Telephone:(239)-992-8802 e-mail: MOFWCABOOSE@aol.com Prices (postpaid): $1.25 @ for a 3½ x 5, $2.50 @ for a 5 x 7, or $4.00 @ for an 8 x 10 Black-and-white prints made to order, of mainly railroad cabooses and non-revenue equipment, dating from the 1940s on (with a few earlier). There are also locomotives and freight cars, as explained below. These prints are for sale to collectors, modelers, authors, and publishers, and may be published, with permission, free of additional charge except for a free copy of the publication the pictures appear in. Lists are available for all major class 1 railroads that were/are operated in North America since 1940. Up to three of these lists may be had for a large, self-addressed, stamped envelope. In the case of large lists such as the UP, postage for a second ounce is advisable. Individual railroad lists can also be scanned and e-mailed. Each page will arrive as a separate e-mail, because some computers cannot untangle attachments. Jim McDaniel, always looking for NYP&N and PRR Delmarva photos and info ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:22:39 -0400 From: Godfrey Hall Subject: Re: [PRR] State of the Hobby --------------A0C311D2A74E4D38B845F653 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ALGUCKES@aol.com wrote: > The NMRA membership problem is old news. The problem has been > exacerbated by the recent dues increase. However I think the NMRA > often "shoots itself in the foot" as evidenced by the recent > selections for the "Living Legends" series of special run cars. Also, according to a number of members who are not going to renew their memberships, by the way they handled the Toronto Convention, just past. - godfrey hall --------------A0C311D2A74E4D38B845F653 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

ALGUCKES@aol.com wrote:

The NMRA membership problem is old news. The problem has been exacerbated by the recent dues increase.  However I think the NMRA often "shoots itself in the foot" as evidenced by the recent selections for the "Living Legends" series of special run cars.
Also, according to a number of members who are not going to renew their memberships, by the way they handled the Toronto Convention, just past.
- godfrey hall
  --------------A0C311D2A74E4D38B845F653-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Can you say T1 moved back again Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:51:04 +0000 This is from the Trains.com website. Broadway Limited enters On2 1/2 Broadway Limited Imports has announced production of a Denver & Rio Grande Western C-16 2-8-0 Consolidation steam locomotive in On2 1/2. These models will be the firm’s first entry in the narrow gauge locomotive market and will be offered in two variations, one with round domes and the other with fluted domes like no. 278 shown in the prototype photo above. Like other Broadway Limited models, the Rio Grande C-16 locomotive will come with a working sound system that functions on both DC- and DCC-equipped layouts. The model’s sound system features specific C-16 sounds and copies the prototype’s single-chime whistle. The locomotive should be available in late October or early November. Broadway Limited Inc. will offer it in two different paint schemes for the Denver & Rio Grande Western, and also in: Milwaukee Road, Nevada County Narrow Gauge, Pennsylvania RR, and Rio Grande Southern. A painted but unlettered version will also be available. - David Popp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach" Subject: RE: [PRR] Can you say T1 moved back again Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:21:32 -0400 Hard to speculate if the T1 will be moved back because of this. If BLI does already have a preproduction sample on hand, then the tooling is done on the T1 for the most part. Why assume the worst? Eric --- Eric Lauterbach --- ealauterbach@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 7/24/03 9:51:04 AM > Subject: [PRR] Can you say T1 moved back again > > This is from the Trains.com website. > > Broadway Limited enters On2 1/2 > > Broadway Limited Imports has announced production of a Denver & Rio Grande > Western C-16 2-8-0 Consolidation steam locomotive in On2 1/2. These models will > be the firm’s first entry in the narrow gauge locomotive market and will be > offered in two variations, one with round domes and the other with fluted domes > like no. 278 shown in the prototype photo above. > > Like other Broadway Limited models, the Rio Grande C-16 locomotive will come > with a working sound system that functions on both DC- and DCC-equipped > layouts. The model’s sound system features specific C-16 sounds and copies the > prototype’s single-chime whistle. > > The locomotive should be available in late October or early November. Broadway > Limited Inc. will offer it in two different paint schemes for the Denver & Rio > Grande Western, and also in: Milwaukee Road, Nevada County Narrow Gauge, > Pennsylvania RR, and Rio Grande Southern. A painted but unlettered version will > also be available. > > - David Popp > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:30:05 -0400 Subject: [PRR] The Big Tease From: Jerry Britton My wife travels a lot around the state of Pennsylvania for her work. This morning, while I was bound inside the cinderblock walls of my abode, she calls from her cell phone around 10 a.m. Paraphrased... "I'm heading east. The sky is blue with a few beautiful white clouds. The mountains look great. As I head down the side of the mountain, I'm looking across the valley to the other side. There's a train over there, running parallel to me. One locomotive is black (Norfolk Southern) and one is blue (Conrail). It looks really cool hanging there on the side of the mountain." Grrrrrr! I'm stuck inside and she's.... Easy one...where is she? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:36:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] The Big Tease On Thu, 24 Jul 2003, Jerry Britton wrote: > My wife travels a lot around the state of Pennsylvania for her work. > > This morning, while I was bound inside the cinderblock walls of my > abode, she calls from her cell phone around 10 a.m. Paraphrased... > > "I'm heading east. The sky is blue with a few beautiful white clouds. > The mountains look great. As I head down the side of the mountain, I'm > looking across the valley to the other side. There's a train over > there, running parallel to me. One locomotive is black (Norfolk > Southern) and one is blue (Conrail). It looks really cool hanging there > on the side of the mountain." > > Grrrrrr! I'm stuck inside and she's.... > > Easy one...where is she? Coming down 22 from Cresson to US220. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:44:40 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] The Big Tease From: Jerry Britton On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 01:36 PM, Derrick J Brashear wrote: > > Coming down 22 from Cresson to US220. Yup! Hey, I said it was an easy one! I half expected one of my crew to jump in with the answer, since we are building that stretch in the basement, but "D" was right on top of it! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: [PRR] BLI GG-1's Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:14:46 -0400 Just got a call from my dealer saying that he got the Broadway Ltd. GG-1's! With all the complaining about them and late deliveries I was pretty surprised that they're here already... Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:23:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI GG-1's From: Jerry Britton On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 02:14 PM, Rob Schoenberg wrote: > Just got a call from my dealer saying that he got the Broadway Ltd. > GG-1's! > With all the complaining about them and late deliveries I was pretty > surprised that they're here already... While BLI continued to maintain "August" delivery on their web site and in public, when they invoiced dealers (direct accounts) at the beginning of the month they did indicate "late July, early August". Also, those who ordered (from anywhere) should be patient for delivery. It could take several weeks until BLI ships all of their orders to dealers (direct accounts) and distributors (who then have to ship to dealers). The N&W Class A's took a few weeks to complete shipping. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Locomotive maintenance and painting Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:40:49 +0000 How long would most diesels go between repainting? Would they be repainted when rebuilt or more often? Was it up to an assigned facility or were there corporate guidlines and locations for repainting? Thanks ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:51:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI GG-1's From: Alex Charyna I forgot I ordered one, much to my surprise, my dealer called and I had to go pick it up. It's a lot heavier than I thought it'd be. But it looks and sounds great.. -alex On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 02:14 PM, Rob Schoenberg wrote: > Just got a call from my dealer saying that he got the Broadway Ltd. > GG-1's! > With all the complaining about them and late deliveries I was pretty > surprised that they're here already... > > Rob > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:01:57 -0400 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Rivarossi is going bankrupt, update. Folks, With all the speculation of the situation at Rivarossi, it is all speculation. Rivarosi has a new board of directors, the new owner is in control of the company, they are shipping new products, some slated for a couple weeks out. They are working on revising older products as well, and I will be working indirectly to correct some of the out dated tooling(PRR). The line will be expanding with both new heavy weight cars as well as new light weight equipment. They are a progressive company and their future looks quite good. Now can we stop all this speculation? It creates a lot of bad press. And that is all it is bad press. Let's think positive. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Locomotive maintenance and painting Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:40:52 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007C_01C35202.59425F00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PRR repainted road locomotives if and when two conditions were met: a) the locomotive was at Altoona for overhaul, and b) there was money in the budget to cover painting. Condition b varied widely according to which year you are talking about. The switchers seldom were sent to Altoona for overhaul since they were low mileage units, but the paint wore out by the calendar rather than by the mile. So the individual roundhouse foreman, of which I was one, would sneak a paint job or two in when nobody was looking. This was difficult to do because with the tight budgets of the late 1950s and early 1960s there were zero painters on staff. What I would do was step-rate a laborer who had formerly been a painter to the painter's rate and as soon as he was finished painting, he would go back to laborer status. I painted GP-7s, SW-1s, SW-9s, S-3s, Baldwin Switchers, and FS-20s in this manner. Most of the other foremen couldn't care less whether the units looked good, so they didn't bother. Renovo DID have painters on staff when there was what they called a "low mileage overhaul" program on the RS-3s and the Alco switchers. Renovo also had painters on staff to paint the maintenance of way cars that were being turned out of the shop. Conway and Columbus were two other places that did painting from time to time. My own painting experiences were when I had Canton, Renovo, and Northumberland under my watch. Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net] Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 3:41 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Locomotive maintenance and painting How long would most diesels go between repainting? Would they be repainted when rebuilt or more often? Was it up to an assigned facility or were there corporate guidlines and locations for repainting? Thanks ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_000_007C_01C35202.59425F00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
PRR=20 repainted road locomotives if and when two conditions were met:  a) = the=20 locomotive was at Altoona for overhaul, and b) there was money in the = budget to=20 cover painting.  Condition b varied widely according to which year = you are=20 talking about.
 
The=20 switchers seldom were sent to Altoona for overhaul since they were low = mileage=20 units, but the paint wore out by the calendar rather than by the = mile.  So=20 the individual  roundhouse foreman, of which I was one, would sneak = a paint=20 job or two in when nobody was looking.  This was difficult to do = because=20 with the tight budgets of the late 1950s and early 1960s there were zero = painters on staff.  What I would do was step-rate a laborer who had = formerly been a painter to the painter's rate and as soon as he was = finished=20 painting, he would go back to laborer status. I painted GP-7s, SW-1s, = SW-9s,=20 S-3s, Baldwin Switchers, and FS-20s in this manner.
 
Most=20 of the other foremen couldn't care less whether the units looked good, = so they=20 didn't bother.  Renovo DID have painters on staff when there was = what they=20 called a "low mileage overhaul" program on the RS-3s and the Alco=20 switchers.  Renovo also had painters on staff to paint the = maintenance of=20 way cars that were being turned out of the shop.  Conway and = Columbus were=20 two other places that did painting from time to time.  My own = painting=20 experiences were when I had Canton, Renovo, and Northumberland = under =20 my watch.
 
Bill=20 V.
-----Original Message-----
From: = ndbprr@att.net=20 [mailto:ndbprr@att.net]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 3:41=20 PM
To: PRR-Talk
Subject: [PRR] Locomotive = maintenance and=20 painting

How long would most diesels go between = repainting?  Would=20 they be repainted
when rebuilt or more often?  Was it up to an = assigned facility or were there
corporate guidlines and locations = for=20 repainting? =20 = Thanks

-----------------------------------------------------------= ------------
For=20 assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

<= /P>

------=_NextPart_000_007C_01C35202.59425F00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Locomotive maintenance and painting Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:52:19 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01C35203.F2B4A390 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Partly true. The passenger units were always being cycled through Altoona between overhauls because their main generators were prone to failure and Harrisburg Diesel didn't have facilities to lift the generators out easily. So the green five-stripe they were delivered in had largely disappeared by 1952 when the change to tuscan red came. Similarly, most of the units got repainted after the 1955 shadow keystone era appeared. For a time in 1958 Altoona was merely spraying varnish on the freight units which gave them the look of fresh paint but the varnish quickly crazed and the unit needed repainting because it turned yellow! Pennsy Diesel Years Volume 1 has photos of this phenomenon. WDV -----Original Message----- From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net] Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 4:28 PM To: Bill Volkmer Subject: RE: [PRR] Locomotive maintenance and painting I figured this would bring you out of your lurking! I assume then that the older a unit got with some exceptions the more faded it got so if you are modeling say 1957 most of the switchers, F3's and 7's, RS units and most of the stuff delivered in the 40's would be pretty grimy at that point. The GP7's and 9's would be less so because of being newer. If one is modeling a year they need to consider the 15 year life and weather accordingly with newer units being the better looking except for an occasional repaint. Correct? > PRR repainted road locomotives if and when two conditions were met: a) > the locomotive was at Altoona for overhaul, and b) there was money in > the budget to cover painting. Condition b varied widely according to > which year you are talking about. > > The switchers seldom were sent to Altoona for overhaul since they were > low mileage units, but the paint wore out by the calendar rather than by > the mile. So the individual roundhouse foreman, of which I was one, > would sneak a paint job or two in when nobody was looking. This was > difficult to do because with the tight budgets of the late 1950s and > early 1960s there were zero painters on staff. What I would do was > step-rate a laborer who had formerly been a painter to the painter's > rate and as soon as he was finished painting, he would go back to > laborer status. I painted GP-7s, SW-1s, SW-9s, S-3s, Baldwin Switchers, > and FS-20s in this manner. > > Most of the other foremen couldn't care less whether the units looked > good, so they didn't bother. Renovo DID have painters on staff when > there was what they called a "low mileage overhaul" program on the RS-3s > and the Alco switchers. Renovo also had painters on staff to paint the > maintenance of way cars that were being turned out of the shop. Conway > and Columbus were two other places that did painting from time to time. > My own painting experiences were when I had Canton, Renovo, and > Northumberland under my watch. > > Bill V. > > -----Original Message----- > From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net] > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 3:41 PM > To: PRR-Talk > Subject: [PRR] Locomotive maintenance and painting > > > > How long would most diesels go between repainting? Would they be > repainted > when rebuilt or more often? Was it up to an assigned facility or were > there > corporate guidlines and locations for repainting? Thanks > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01C35203.F2B4A390 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Partly=20 true.  The passenger units were always being cycled through Altoona = between=20 overhauls because their main generators were prone to failure and = Harrisburg=20 Diesel didn't have facilities to lift the generators out easily.  = So the=20 green five-stripe they were delivered in had largely disappeared by 1952 = when=20 the change to tuscan red came.  Similarly, most of the units got = repainted=20 after the 1955 shadow keystone era appeared.
 
For a=20 time in 1958 Altoona was merely spraying varnish on the freight units = which gave=20 them the look of fresh paint but the varnish quickly crazed and the unit = needed=20 repainting because it turned yellow!
 
Pennsy=20 Diesel Years Volume 1 has photos of this phenomenon.
 
WDV
-----Original Message-----
From: = ndbprr@att.net=20 [mailto:ndbprr@att.net]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 4:28=20 PM
To: Bill Volkmer
Subject: RE: [PRR] Locomotive=20 maintenance and painting

I figured this would bring you out of your = lurking!  I=20 assume then that the
older a unit got with some exceptions the more = faded=20 it got so if you are
modeling say 1957 most of the switchers, F3's = and 7's,=20 RS units and most of the
stuff delivered in the 40's would be = pretty grimy=20 at that point.  The GP7's and
9's would be less so because of = being=20 newer.  If one is modeling a year they
need to consider the 15 = year=20 life and weather accordingly with newer units
being the better = looking=20 except for an occasional repaint.  Correct?
> PRR repainted = road=20 locomotives if and when two conditions were met:  a)
> the=20 locomotive was at Altoona for overhaul, and b) there was money = in
> the=20 budget to cover painting.  Condition b varied widely according = to
>=20 which year you are talking about.
> 
> The switchers = seldom=20 were sent to Altoona for overhaul since they were
> low mileage = units,=20 but the paint wore out by the calendar rather than by
> the = mile. =20 So the individual  roundhouse foreman, of which I was = one,
> would=20 sneak a paint job or two in when nobody was looking.  This = was
>=20 difficult to do because with the tight budgets of the late 1950s = and
>=20 early 1960s there were zero painters on staff.  What I would do=20 was
> step-rate a laborer who had formerly been a painter to the = painter's
> rate and as soon as he was finished painting, he = would go=20 back to
> laborer status. I painted GP-7s, SW-1s, SW-9s, S-3s, = Baldwin=20 Switchers,
> and FS-20s in this manner.
> 
> = Most of=20 the other foremen couldn't care less whether the units = looked

>=20 good, so they didn't bother.  Renovo DID have painters on staff=20 when
> there was what they called a "low mileage overhaul" = program on=20 the RS-3s
> and the Alco switchers.  Renovo also had = painters on=20 staff to paint the
> maintenance of way cars that were being = turned out=20 of the shop.  Conway
> and Columbus were two other places = that did=20 painting from time to time.
> My own painting experiences were = when I=20 had Canton, Renovo, and
> Northumberland under  my=20 watch.
> 
> Bill V.
>
> -----Original=20 Message-----
> From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net]
> = Sent:=20 Thursday, July 24, 2003 3:41 PM
> To: PRR-Talk
> Subject: = [PRR]=20 Locomotive maintenance and painting
>
>
>
> = How long=20 would most diesels go between repainting?  Would they be
>=20 repainted
> when rebuilt or more often?  Was it up to an = assigned=20 facility or were
> there
> corporate guidlines and = locations for=20 repainting?  Thanks
>
>=20 = ----------------------------------------------------------------------->=20 For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.
>
>=

>


------=_NextPart_000_0087_01C35203.F2B4A390-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:12:01 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: [PRR] Re: MTH/Railking "7 light signal" I have both the PRR signal bridge and the mast signal with the two, three-color triangle pattern lights. As anyone who has them knows, they turn green (or vertical lights) when one control wire is energized, and yellow for a few seconds, then green, when the other wire is energized. If anyone is interested in rewiring these signal for conventional red/yellow/green control, using three control wires, it can be done, though it is a fussy job. I made a sketch of the changes necessary and can post them to the files section if anyone is interested. Steve Bartlett ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] New PRR product Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 08:07:34 -0400 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C352A5.54E0B580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Listers, >From the Model Railroader e-news: Here are all the new product announcements that the Model Railroader Product Desk received this week. For complete details and photos, visit ModelRailroader.com's Product News by clicking the link below: >> HO scale << --Accurail: coal loads for four styles of twin hoppers --Athearn: more details about the Genesis line 4-6-6-4 Challenger --Bowser: Pennsylvania RR class N-8 caboose kit --Kadee: Three PS-1 boxcars --Pine Canyon Scale Models: fully built machine works structure Chris Chany ------_=_NextPart_001_01C352A5.54E0B580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" New PRR product

Listers,

From the Model Railroader e-news:

Here are all the new product announcements that the Model Railroader
Product Desk received this week. For complete details and photos, visit
ModelRailroader.com's Product News by clicking the link below:

>> HO scale <<
--Accurail: coal loads for four styles of twin hoppers
--Athearn: more details about the Genesis line 4-6-6-4 Challenger
--Bowser: Pennsylvania RR class N-8 caboose kit
--Kadee: Three PS-1 boxcars
--Pine Canyon Scale Models: fully built machine works structure


Chris Chany

------_=_NextPart_001_01C352A5.54E0B580-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "edmund burbage" Subject: [PRR] Question Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:35:37 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C35298.7CE820C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Would any person/persons on this Net have or be able to tell me where I = may find a picture of a Janney Coupler please? leeprrswitchkey@msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C35298.7CE820C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Would any person/persons on this Net have or be able to tell me = where I may=20 find a picture of a Janney Coupler please?
 
 
leeprrswitchkey@msn.com
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C35298.7CE820C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:04:27 -0400 From: davep Subject: Janney Coupler Re: [PRR] Question How Old? The standard US coupler is a 'Janney' after some evolution... edmund burbage wrote: > Would any person/persons on this Net have or be able to tell me where I > may find a picture of a Janney Coupler please? > > leeprrswitchkey@msn.com -- best dwp ...the net of a million lies... Vernor Vinge There are Many Web Sites which Say Many Things. -me ...for he has read everything, and written nothing... A J Raffles ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] D16sb Survival Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:04:59 -0400 List gents, I recently acquired a PRR D16 class book that was published in 1942 by the RLHS. It lists evry D16 engine built when and where and what railroad it was given to. In here it states that three engines reamin of the D16sb class. They are 1223 (obviousluy now at Strasburg), 5079 (The oldest D16 built that was still in service on the road), and 1035 (Noted as being on service on the Delmarva Division, being leased to the Baltimore and Eastern for a few years). Of the latter two, does anybody know if they still survived? Thanks for any help. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Athearn and Bowser details Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:35:13 +0000 This is from the Trains.com site. Athearn is raising the bar and the price is going with it. Athearn has announced more details about the 4-6-6-4 Challenger in its Genesis line. The locomotives will feature a detailed backhead with micro-printed gauge faces, adjustable cab windows, prototype-specific cab details, see-through boiler walkways, blackened RP25 contour wheels, electrical pickup from all 12 drivers and all tender wheels, directional lighting with illuminated number boards, and are smoke unit ready. All road names will be offered with analog ($529.98) or digital ($599.98) sound. Locomotives scheduled for release in Spring 2004 include Clinchfield no. 670, Denver & Rio Grande Western no. 3802, Union Pacific no. 3985, and undecorated. Locomotives scheduled for release in late 2004 include UP no. 3943 (with smoke deflectors), UP 3977 (with oil tender), and Clinchfield no. 672. Athearn Inc., 19010 Laurel Park Rd., Compton, CA 90220; www.athearn.com Bowser has announced the release of a Pennsylvania RR (PRR) class N-8 caboose kit. The kit, scheduled for release this winter, features a molded-plastic body, roof, and cupola; end railings; window glazing; free-rolling trucks; separate grab irons; and McHenry KS couplers. Road names available in the first release include: Conrail (blue carbody), Illinois Central Gulf, Penn Central, PRR circle keystone (Central Region), PRR shadow keystone, PRR shadow keystone (Pittsburgh Region), PRR shadow keystone (Susquehanna Division), PRR plain keystone (red carbody with yellow cupola), and PRR plain keystone (Focal orange carbody). All cabooses will be available in three road numbers each. Bowser, P.O. Box 322, Montoursville, PA 17754; www.bowser-trains.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] D16sb Survival Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:40:22 -0400 Lee and List. The book lists the following as D16 leased to the Baltimore and Eastern in 1933. 964, 4049, 5079, 5312 and 5323. It aslo says that they were probably run between Love Point and Ocean City, Md. Connection was made at Love Point with Baltimore by boat. This pamphlet is great, it lists everything. It specifically lists all PRR eastern lines D16 but does list the number spread for lines west engines, such as Pittsburgh, Ft. Wayne & Chicago series 7000-7500. Vandalia Line 8700-8900. Grand Rapids & Indiana 9500-9600. Washington & Waynesburg 9680. It is an excellent resourse for information on D16 class engines. I'm even half inspired to write a small article for the Keystone if one hasn't been done yet. lol. Thanks for any help. John ----------------------------------------------------------- Lee Wrote: I saw them operate as a small lad here on Delmarva. The B&E ran from the Bridge to Baltimore to Ocean City, MD, ie West Ocean City MD. MY cousin shipped Fish out on the Refer Cars from the track across the road from his Dock. Davis and Lynnch Fish Co. Now gone. Lee Burbage ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:55:37 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] D16sb Survival From: Jerry Britton On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 01:40 PM, John Frantz wrote: > The book lists the following as D16 leased to the Baltimore and > Eastern in 1933. 964, 4049, 5079, 5312 and 5323. It aslo says that > they were probably run between Love Point and Ocean City, Md. > Connection was made at Love Point with Baltimore by boat. It was only several years ago that I learned of the PRR's boat operations between Baltimore and Love Point. I've never delved into it, but I ought to... In the mid-1970's my family was fortunate to have a boat on the Chesapeake Bay. We kept it on the northeast side of Kent Island, which is a sizable island all but connected to the eastern shore at the east end of the US 50 bridge that crosses the bay just above Annapolis. A very narrow channel, known as the Kent Narrows, separated the island from the eastern shore. US 50 crosses this via a drawbridge. Love Point is at the northern tip of this island, where a river from the east joins the main body of the bay. There is a lighthouse there, off shore. The waters can be very rough there, which is why I am somewhat enthralled by the idea of railroad car barges coming ashore there. I have to wonder if "Love Point" was used loosely and they really docked on the western shore of the island. There was no sign of railroad when I was there in the 1970's so it's hard to say. Let me somewhat retract that last statement... There was remnants of the railroad trestle across the Kent Narrows. But it was in a dramatic state of disrepair. Perhaps only piers. My memory isn't clear on that point. Also worth mentioning is that many of the marinas, our marina (Castle Marina) included, used old wooden barges to protect the sides of their channels. The water wasn't too deep, so they ran these old barges aground and cut a channel between them. I gotta wonder if these might have been old PRR rail barges! I was too young to know or care at the time. If only I could go back for a few hours! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:32:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] Diaphragms --0-411249179-1059165139=:30315 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Ronald Di Orio wrote:Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:23:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: Diaphragms > > >Were "full-width" diaphragms on streamline > passenger > >cars compatible with regular diaphragms? As far as > PRR > >practice goes, if non-compatible when were the > >full-width diaphragms removed? If compatible, any > >photo evidence showing full-width and regular PRR > cars > >coupled together? Thanks. > > > >Ron Di Orio > > > >__________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software --0-411249179-1059165139=:30315 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii


Ronald Di Orio <prrpass2249@yahoo.com> wrote:
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:23:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ronald Di Orio
Subject: Diaphragms


>
> >Were "full-width" diaphragms on streamline
> passenger
> >cars compatible with regular diaphragms? As far as
> PRR
> >practice goes, if non-compatible when were the
> >full-width diaphragms removed? If compatible, any
> >photo evidence showing full-width and regular PRR
> cars
> >coupled together? Thanks.
> >
> >Ron Di Orio
> >
> >__________________________________
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site
> design software
> >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>
>


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software --0-411249179-1059165139=:30315-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:41:03 -0400 From: Steve Sharpe Subject: RE: [PRR] Can you say T1 moved back again At 11:21 AM -0400 7/24/03, Eric Lauterbach wrote: >Hard to speculate if the T1 will be moved back because of this. If BLI does >already have a preproduction sample on hand, then the tooling is done on >the T1 for the most part. Why assume the worst? >Eric How many models have BLI actually ***released*** up to this point, as opposed to just announcing? -- Steve sbs@milestone-media.com • ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:35:37 -0400 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [Fwd: [PRR] D16sb Survival] John Franz wrote -- or rather asked: I recently acquired a PRR D16 class book that was published in 1942 by the RLHS. It lists evry D16 engine built when and where and what railroad it was given to. In here it states that three engines reamin of the D16sb class. They are 1223 (obviousluy now at Strasburg), 5079 (The oldest D16 built that was still in service on the road), and 1035 (Noted as being on service on the Delmarva Division, being leased to the Baltimore and Eastern for a few years). Of the latter two, does anybody know if they still survived? Thanks for any help. John What I know from MP 229s is that in 1944 both 1035 and 5079 were leased to the B&E and 1223 was a Delmarva engine. By 1954 none of the three is listed. By 1957, there was no steam on Delmarva. . Jim McDaniel, Delmarva correspondent ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Silverliner Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:30:45 -0400 Hi All, I know that car 154 was a Silverliner. Does anyone know what class it was? Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "edmund burbage" Subject: [PRR] Question Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 08:09:02 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C3534D.2CD43DC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Would anyone on this net have the URL for the US Patent Office in = Washington, DC.?? Help Plaease?? leeprrswitchkey@msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C3534D.2CD43DC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Would anyone on this net have the URL for the US Patent Office in=20 Washington, DC.??
 
Help Plaease??
leeprrswitchkey@msn.com
= ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C3534D.2CD43DC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mark Murtha" Subject: Re: [PRR] Question Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 08:20:04 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C3534E.B7275AB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable www.uspto.gov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: edmund burbage=20 To: PRR-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 8:09 AM Subject: [PRR] Question Would anyone on this net have the URL for the US Patent Office in = Washington, DC.?? Help Plaease?? leeprrswitchkey@msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C3534E.B7275AB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
www.uspto.gov
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 edmund=20 burbage
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 = 8:09=20 AM
Subject: [PRR] Question

Would anyone on this net have the URL for the US Patent Office in = Washington, DC.??
 
Help Plaease??
leeprrswitchkey@msn.com
= ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C3534E.B7275AB0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] Question Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 08:20:20 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C3534E.C0E54030 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Edmund: Try this one. http://www.uspto.gov/ Larry ----- Original Message -----=20 From: edmund burbage=20 To: PRR-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 8:09 AM Subject: [PRR] Question Would anyone on this net have the URL for the US Patent Office in = Washington, DC.?? Help Plaease?? leeprrswitchkey@msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C3534E.C0E54030 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Edmund:
 
Try this one.
 
http://www.uspto.gov/
 
Larry
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 edmund=20 burbage
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 = 8:09=20 AM
Subject: [PRR] Question

Would anyone on this net have the URL for the US Patent Office in = Washington, DC.??
 
Help Plaease??
leeprrswitchkey@msn.com
= ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C3534E.C0E54030-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 08:27:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Can you say T1 moved back again From: Jerry @ Pennsy On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 09:41 AM, Steve Sharpe wrote: > At 11:21 AM -0400 7/24/03, Eric Lauterbach wrote: >> Hard to speculate if the T1 will be moved back because of this. If >> BLI does >> already have a preproduction sample on hand, then the tooling is done >> on >> the T1 for the most part. Why assume the worst? >> Eric > > How many models have BLI actually ***released*** up to this point, as > opposed to just announcing? > Three. The NYC Class J, the N&W Class A, and this week the PRR Class GG-1. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------- Jerry Britton, president jbritton@dsop.com Merchandise Service 717-938-4270 A Division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:30:45 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Silverliner Hi All, I know that car 154 was a Silverliner. Does anyone know what class it was? Thanks Bill ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Toner for Your Printer or Fax at LaserTonerSuperstore.com-Save 55%! We have your brand: HP, IBM, Canon, Xerox, Apple and many more for less! http://www.LaserTonerSuperstore.com http://us.click.yahoo.com/YmQqWC/qicGAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 09:25:23 -0400 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] Question edmund burbage wrote: > Would anyone on this net have the URL for the US Patent Office in > Washington, DC.?? www.uspto.gov [google found it quite rapidly... There are Other Sites with Patent Search Engines Google found several, of which: http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html Searching on 'railroad' and 'coupling' yields a manyness of hits... > Help Please?? > leeprrswitchkey@msn.com -- best dwp ...the net of a million lies... Vernor Vinge There are Many Web Sites which Say Many Things. -me ...for he has read everything, and written nothing... A J Raffles ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: [PRR] ELECTRIFIED RS-3? Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 09:57:24 -0400 I read this on the Yahoo list. Anyone care to comment? Anyone have a photo? Lew --- In PRRCatenaryElectrics@yahoogroups.com, "Sernak, Mike" wrote: > Electrified RS-3? I am sure this was not Pennsy, but has anyone heard of > this? Yes, there was a modified RS-3[or RS-2, hard to tell because it was de-engined] at GE-Erie in the late '70s that could well have survived into the 80's. As I understand, it was used to provide a load when testing electric locomotives and running on the EECCRR/GE test track. When I saw it, it was painted in the standard GE light blue/gray paint scheme. The pantograph sat on a flat platform which resided over the area where the radiator/fan had once been. There was a transformer installed plus smoothing reactors mounted where the fuel tank had been. A box affair, not unlike the box now seen on new GE diesel locomotives that housed the dynamic brake resistors and fans had been installed just ahead of the cab on the "engine side". I didn't see inside the cab, but through the side cab windows, it was evident a lot of instrumentation had been installed. Whether or not the unit was movable on it's own is unknown. Any more information on this would be appreciated. Daniel van Beers Long Beach, CA "It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it." -- Al Gore, Vice President "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?" -- Lee Iacocca "If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure." -- Bill Clinton, President Synergistic Solutions: Alternative, Sustainable Waste Management and Energy Systems. Advocating water for life through the integration of sustainable agriculture, sustainable toilets, sustainable gray water systems and sustainable green construction. Lewis J. Matt III, Ph.D., C.S.E.O., B.O.C.A.I. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "edmund burbage" Subject: [PRR] All Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 12:58:17 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C35375.959736A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you for your response to my Patent Office question. Appreciate it = very much. leeprrswitchkey@msn.com L. BURBAGE BMCM USCG-Ret. ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C35375.959736A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you for your response to my Patent Office question. = Appreciate it=20 very much.
 
 
=
 
 
L. BURBAGE
BMCM USCG-Ret.
------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C35375.959736A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Michael Hauk" Subject: [PRR] Bowser GLa's Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 13:45:34 -0400 Greetings: A quick two questions for the list - 1) Are there any cast resin coal loads commercially available for the Bowser GLa hoppers? 2) What brand of metal wheelset is recommended to replace the ones that come with the kits? Thanks! Doc H. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 12:46:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] Diaphragms --0-1796350083-1059248794=:26421 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks to all who responded on my question concerning diaphragms. Ron Di Orio --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software --0-1796350083-1059248794=:26421 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Thanks to all who responded on my question concerning diaphragms.
 
Ron Di Orio

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software --0-1796350083-1059248794=:26421-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 19:40:39 -0400 From: Elliot Fishbein Subject: [PRR] drawings needed Hello, Does anyone out there know where I might find drawings (as opposed to photos) of LIRR class C51 0-8-0 switchers? These ran during the Pennsy era on the LIRR but were not standard PRR design. Thanks in advance. Elliot Elliot Fishbein Cochecton Center, NY --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by ezaccess.net] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 04:01:56 GMT Subject: [PRR] Items, Lionel Cat. 2003-2 From: Dominic Mazoch PRR items from 2003-2 Lionel Cat. 1. PRR Flyer train set 2. 1947 Freedom Train. Lionel states PRR cars used on train. 3. PRR Baby H***** (4-6-4)??????????????? 4. PRSL 4-6-0 Camelback (2 engines, one conv., other full TMCC) 5. Lionmaster T-1 (smaller than O scale for O-31 curves.) 6. Alco FA-1 (AA) 7. Alco FB-1 8. PRR Stock car 9. Crane Car, full TMCC 10. RS-11 (2004) 11. Jersy City tug boat. Dominic Mazoch ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Items, Lionel Cat. 2003-2 Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 08:25:54 -0400 Dominic Wrote: >PRR items from 2003-2 Lionel Cat. >2. 1947 Freedom Train. Lionel states PRR cars used on >train. >5. Lionmaster T-1 (smaller than O scale for O-31 curves.) >6. Alco FA-1 (AA) >7. Alco FB-1 To answer some things, Yes Lionel is correct when they say PRR cars were used in the 1947-1949 Freedom Train. Four P70 Coaches were modified for use as exhibit cars. For more information go to: www.freedomtrain.org As for the T1 and FA-1,FB-1. I have all three of these items in a Metro Harrisburg Hobby Shop. Despite the fact that i Don't model in Lionel these items look great, the detail on each is immaculate. The only thing I see wrong asthetically is that the Brunswick Green is just a hair too green. Besides that they look great, and i understand they have sound too. Thats my two cents worth. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walter Prusick" Subject: [PRR] Bowser GLa Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 21:37:17 -0400 Mike, Can't offer much help concerning commercial castings for these hoppers, but I use Kadee wheel sets for these and other Bowser cars. Make sure that you get the 33" diameter (freight car) and NOT the 36". As to whether the ribbed back or non-ribbed, well I use both as I go thru "growth spurts" and my local supplier usually doesn't have enough of one type. In my opinion, rolling quality outweigh the asthetics in this case. Nuff said, Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 08:58:47 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser GLa's From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" I've made reasonably good coal loads from the plastic ones by filling in the valleys with white putty, spreading carpenter's yellow glue over the entire upper surface, putting the load in a box lid, and covering it with coal of the desired size. Let sit overnight so the glue dries completely. My coal train has three different grades of coal in the hoppers. Don Harper Marine Lab Texas A&M Univ. at Galveston Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ---------- >From: "Michael Hauk" >To: >Subject: [PRR] Bowser GLa's >Date: Sat, 26 Jul, 2003, 12:45 > > Greetings: > > A quick two questions for the list - > > > 1) Are there any cast resin coal loads commercially available for the > Bowser GLa hoppers? > > 2) What brand of metal wheelset is recommended to replace the ones that > come with the kits? > > Thanks! > > Doc H. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walter Prusick" Subject: [PRR] Bowser GLa Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:06:14 -0400 guys, a more annoying question is how does one bring these cars up to the desired/recommended weight, when there is no coal load. Granted this is the age old question which arises when dealing with "open" cars. Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR] Bowser GLa Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:12:21 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C35544.8DA53F20 Content-Type: text/plain Walt, I have had luck with replacing the "steel" weights with lead sheet, and dropping that low-temp liquid "lead" alloy into the center sill and between the hopper bays. Add Kadees and metal wheel sets and that'll probably be about it! It is still below weight, but better. Oh, and NO, I have not done this to a fleet, but only a handful of cars. That, and replacing all the molded on detail with better stuff is not my idea of fun. Maybe after I get some of this other stuff done.... Elden -----Original Message----- From: Walter Prusick [mailto:cabincar01@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 1:06 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Bowser GLa guys, a more annoying question is how does one bring these cars up to the desired/recommended weight, when there is no coal load. Granted this is the age old question which arises when dealing with "open" cars. Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C35544.8DA53F20 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [PRR] Bowser GLa

Walt, I have had luck with replacing the = "steel" weights with lead sheet, and dropping that low-temp = liquid "lead" alloy into the center sill and between the = hopper bays.  Add Kadees and metal wheel sets and that'll probably = be about it!  It is still below weight, but better.

Oh, and NO, I have not done this to a fleet, but only = a handful of cars. That, and replacing all the molded on detail with = better stuff is not my idea of fun.  Maybe after I get some of = this other stuff done....

Elden

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Prusick [mailto:cabincar01@earthlink.net= ]
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 1:06 PM
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] Bowser GLa

guys,
a more annoying question is how does one bring these = cars up to the
desired/recommended weight, when there is no coal = load. Granted this is the
age old question which arises when dealing with = "open" cars.

Walt Prusick


---------------------------------------------------------------= --------
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C35544.8DA53F20-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:27:11 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser GLa I have filled the void between the bolster and the sloped bottom of the hoppers with lead sheets. I even cast some of these weights by cutting a notch of the correct shape in a 2x4, nailing some sides on the notch and filling the resulting cavity with solder (the lead based kind - getting harder to find - thank you EPA!) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Walter Prusick wrote: > guys, > a more annoying question is how does one bring these cars up to the > desired/recommended weight, when there is no coal load. Granted this is the > age old question which arises when dealing with "open" cars. > > Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser GLa Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 20:31:39 +0000 Walt Prusick wrote: A more annoying question is how does one bring these cars up to the desired/recommended weight, when there is no coal load. Granted this is the age old question which arises when dealing wh li"open" cars. For open cars without loads: - First, determine what can't be seen when you have the car on the track. This also helps to determine how much brake detail to add (i.e., brake detail on a gon with deep fishbelly sides is largely wasted. - Once you've figured that out, pack the unseen areas with weight. For hoppers, the area in the center between the bays is a great spot to add weight. I use lead snake shot. A-Line sells it in small packages at a relatively high price per ounce - if you have a lot of cars to weigh, you might want to check through your local hunting supply to buy in bulk, though it might be harder to find due to environmental restrictions. (I don't like using the steel shot as uncoupling magnets have a habit of "grabbing" a car when you least want it.) The smaller the shot, the better - less air gaps means more lead weight. - Use metal trucks - for Bowser's Class GLA hopper, Kadee's 2D-F8 will do. - For cars with no nooks or crannies, consider making false slope sheets or a false floor using sheet lead sold for roofing. See "Invisible weights for open freight cars" by Charles Baker in the January 1993 Model Railroader, page 120. - When all else fails, add a load to the car. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:50:20 EDT Subject: [PRR] This com.on Drudge today and is attributed to Miller at the AP. Source was not checked or confirmed. This certainly might effect ROW that we care about. And, I couldn't help think about being back in the business of passenger interchanges, car leasing companies, and switching engines. I believe Amtrack sends the equipment in a direction and changes crews. The new lines, some of which will NOT be unionized, will send crews and equipment just so far. Should be exiciting if it ever happens. Regards, Marty ***************** "Government to Offer Amtrak Reform Plan By LESLIE MILLER The Associated Press Sunday, July 27, 2003; 12:14 PM WASHINGTON - A new Bush administration proposal for Amtrak's future could end the government-subsidized railroad's monopoly on intercity passenger rail travel, a congressional supporter says. Officially, the legislation is intended to eliminate unprofitable long-distance routes and force states to give more financial support to intercity passenger rail. Amtrak has been under severe pressure from Congress and the Bush administration to end its dependency on government cash and start turning a profit. The passenger railroad has received government subsidies every year of its 32-year existence. Michael Jackson, outgoing deputy transportation secretary, described the broad outlines of the plan to the Senate Commerce Committee in April. He said a bill would soon follow, and that proposal is going to Congress Tuesday. Rep. John Mica, R-Fla., a senior member of the House Transportation subcommittees that deal with railroads and transportation infrastructure, was briefed on the administration's proposal last week. "If properly implemented, this could be as dramatic as the establishment of the interstate highway system in the Eisenhower years," Mica said. In addition to encouraging private investors to build railroads, the bill would improve service and promote high-speed rail service between cities, Mica said. Congestion would be eased at airports, he said, because people would prefer to take fast trains for trips under 500 miles. The plan would give states responsibility to form regional railroads that would hire Amtrak or other private companies to run the trains. The federal government would help pay for some of those operations, Mica said, although the goal would be to minimize subsidies. The Boston-to-Washington line would be treated differently because it's the only large segment of railroad that Amtrak owns. Under the plan, the Northeast Corridor would be broken into three entities: a compact between the federal and state government to lease and improve the railroad infrastructure; a company to operate the trains; and a company to maintain the tracks and equipment. Amtrak at first would perform the latter two functions on the Northeast Corridor but eventually would have to compete with other companies. Critics say such restructuring is necessary because Amtrak loses about $1 billion a year, thanks in part to money-losing long-distance lines like the Sunset Limited between Orlando and Los Angeles. They point to the railroad's increased indebtedness over the past few years and the failure of Acela high-speed rail trains to reach average speeds of 150 mph that were promised. Supporters say Amtrak's troubles stem from years of underinvestment in tracks and equipment, and all passenger railroads require government subsidies. "No intercity rail system has ever made money," said Rep. John Olver, D-Mass., senior Democrat on the subcommittee that finances Amtrak. The House Appropriations Committee voted Thursday to allot Amtrak $900 million. Amtrak says it needs double that just to maintain existing service this year. Mica said such a shortfall would create a crisis and force Congress to restructure the railroad. But Amtrak's supporters in the House say at least 219 House members, a majority, have signed a letter supporting the railroad's $1.8 billion request. A key question about the administration's bill is how much it will be willing to spend on a restructured passenger rail system. Amtrak, formed in 1971 from defunct passenger railroads, serves 500 communities in 46 states on 22,000 miles of track. --- On the Net: http://www.amtrak.com" ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Keystone Online - Demo is up! Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 21:04:51 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3554B.E54BBCC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In February 2003 the PRRT&HS BoD agreed in principle that the Society would enter into a contract with a vendor to convert all previously published issues of The Keystone into a digital format appropriate for online viewing and distribution, facilitate the construction of a graphical interface that would allow The Keystone to be searched and navigated by users on a web site so that it can be accessed on a subscription basis. The vendor has put together a demo using just two issue of The Keystone so that we can judge the results for ourselves. It's best read using Adobe Reader 6.0 (a new version which can be downloaded). "There are some wrinkles in it, but what you see for these two issues is a good general reflection of the image quality and functionality that will apply. (The image quality in volume 27 is slightly better than in the volume 29 sample, for technical reasons) Be sure to try the full text search features, Try "X29" and a few other words, I tried "green" and got quite a few hits. Please take some time playing around with the demo at: http://C03.AbbottDigital.com/ I am interested in knowing: Would you subscribe to such a service? If yes what would you be willing to pay on an annual subscription basis? Any other comments you may have. Please reply to abbuchan1@comcast.net Thanx for your time and interest . Al ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3554B.E54BBCC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message

In  February 2003 the  PRRT&HS=20  BoD agreed in principle that  the Society would enter = into a=20 contract with a vendor =  to=20 convert all previously published issues of The Keystone into a = digital=20 format appropriate for online viewing and distribution, facilitate the=20 construction of a graphical interface that would allow The=20 Keystone to be searched and navigated by users on a web site so = that it can=20 be accessed on a subscription basis.

 The=20 vendor has put together a demo using just two issue = of=20 The Keystone so that we can judge the results for=20 ourselves.  It's best read = using=20 Adobe Reader 6.0 (a new version which can be=20 downloaded). 

"There are some wrinkles in = it, but=20 what you see for these two issues is a good general reflection of the = image=20 quality and functionality that will apply. (The image quality in volume = 27 is=20 slightly better than in the volume 29 sample,  for technical reasons) Be sure = to try the=20 full text search features,  Try "X29"=20 and a few other words, I tried "green" and got quite a few=20 hits. 

 

Please take some time playing = around with=20 the demo  at:  http://C03.AbbottDigital.com/  

 

I am interested in=20 knowing:

 

Would you subscribe to such a=20 service?

If yes what would you be = willing to pay on=20 an annual subscription basis?

Any other comments you may=20 have.

 

Please reply to abbuchan1@comcast.net 

 

Thanx  = for your=20 time and interest .

 

Al

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3554B.E54BBCC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 21:04:51 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRRT&HS Keystone Online - Demo is up! In February 2003 the PRRT&HS BoD agreed in principle that the Society would enter into a contract with a vendor to convert all previously published issues of The Keystone into a digital format appropriate for online viewing and distribution, facilitate the construction of a graphical interface that would allow The Keystone to be searched and navigated by users on a web site so that it can be accessed on a subscription basis. The vendor has put together a demo using just two issue of The Keystone so that we can judge the results for ourselves. It's best read using Adobe Reader 6.0 (a new version which can be downloaded). "There are some wrinkles in it, but what you see for these two issues is a good general reflection of the image quality and functionality that will apply. (The image quality in volume 27 is slightly better than in the volume 29 sample, for technical reasons) Be sure to try the full text search features, Try "X29" and a few other words, I tried "green" and got quite a few hits. Please take some time playing around with the demo at: http://C03.AbbottDigital.com/ I am interested in knowing: Would you subscribe to such a service? If yes what would you be willing to pay on an annual subscription basis? Any other comments you may have. Please reply to abbuchan1@comcast.net Thanx for your time and interest . Al [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge & refill kit orders to US & Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark & more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 22:22:01 EDT Subject: [PRR] Coal loads --part1_e6.3c1eebc4.2c573449_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I make loads from blocks of blue foam insulation carved to fit the car with the top contoured for the desired load configuration. The foam form is painted with flat black paint. A piece of plastic wrap (Saran Wrap) is placed over the hopper then the block set in. Thinned, white glue is then brushed across the foam and coal sprinkled on. Allow to dry thoroughly then apply a second coating of coal. The plastic wrap acts as a dam protecting the car while it is so thin that when removed there is no objectionable gap between the load and the car sides. The nice part of this method is that the foam block can be cut to fit over the internal bracing allowing the car to still see service as an empty. It is fast, easy and cheap. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 --part1_e6.3c1eebc4.2c573449_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   I make loads from blocks of blue foam insulatio= n carved to fit the car with the top contoured for the desired load configur= ation.  The foam form is painted with flat black paint. A piece of plas= tic wrap (Saran Wrap) is placed over the hopper then the block set in. = Thinned, white glue is then brushed across the foam and coal sprinkled on.&= nbsp; Allow to dry thoroughly then apply a second coating of coal.  The= plastic wrap acts as a dam protecting the car while it is so thin that when= removed there is no objectionable gap between the load and the car sides. <= BR>
  The nice part of this method is that the foam block can be cut to fit= over the internal bracing allowing the car to still see service as an empty= .  It is fast, easy and cheap.

Evan Leisey
RCT&HS  346 --part1_e6.3c1eebc4.2c573449_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Laird" Subject: [PRR] Railroad Map Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 21:59:11 -0500 I have received the following request from a friend of mine and fellow PRRT&HS member. Anyone have any ideas? > > I am looking for a map of the Pennsylvania Railroad, basically only in > Pennsylvania. I'm interested in the era 1900 to about 1940, perhaps 50. > I'd like it to have detail of the various lines and branches, not just a big > broad line representing the main line and such. I am not interested in a > system map, but would settle for one if it had all the small branches in > the state of Pennsylvania. Bill Laird Canyon Lake, TX ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Possible Chicago Chapter offering Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:30:45 +0000 There is a possibility that the Chicago Terminal Chapter may be able to obtain and reproduce the valuation drawings for a large portion of the Chicago area of the PRR. We are considering offering this on CD in either JPEG, PDF or similar universal format as a way of covering our expenses. This idea is in the very early stages and would not be available for some time yet (3-6 months). We are considering offering this for $10.00 or so. At this time I am only trying to determine if there would be interest and not take orders or names. If you would have interest in obtaining this information would you please e mail me off list at ndbprr@att.net. Just the word yes would be sufficient at this time. Thank you, Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:33:48 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Cab Symbols Revisited From: Jerry Britton About three months ago we discussed how freight trains, regardless of their "arranged freight symbol" typically ran as "extras" as far as radio traffic was concerned. So eastbound train ED-4, led by F7 #9640, would report as "Extra 9640 East". Does my memory/understanding serve me correct? Assuming so, what about yard cabs? If VO1000 #5917 is working the Harrisburg passenger station (just say it is, regardless of real assignment!) and it needs to make a move outside of its "free movement zone", would it report as "Extra 5917", "5917", "Harrisburg switcher", or what? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:19:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] "C" Tower closes Aug.1,2003 Hello List, This Friday, Aug 1st, another famed tower along the Pittsburgh Division will close for good. "C" (Conemaugh) Tower will go remote from Pittsburgh ending an era. Those of you in the Johnstown Pa. area this weekend should pay a visit to "C" Tower. It won't be long before ALTO Tower goes remote. I think that is the last manned tower left between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:19:36 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] "C" Tower closes Aug.1,2003 Dave & List, If they remote "C" on Aug.1, they must have been working around the clock since last Thur, as they didn't work on Fri and they still had alot of wiring to do, plus still install new dwarfs(as they would block the view of the present ones) and swing in the new westbound home sig bridge. When it is ready I would think they would have to do it in sections and work out the bugs. Probably one track at a time. I would think that the Opr will be there during the entire cutover process and testing so what problems show up when the Disp calls up a move and it fails, the Opr will be there to assist trains. Pat McKinney Altoona,Pa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:19:36 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] "C" Tower closes Aug.1,2003 --part1_1dd.ecd893f.2c586918_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave & List, If they remote "C" on Aug.1, they must have been working around the clock since last Thur, as they didn't work on Fri and they still had alot of wiring to do, plus still install new dwarfs(as they would block the view of the present ones) and swing in the new westbound home sig bridge. When it is ready I would think they would have to do it in sections and work out the bugs. Probably one track at a time. I would think that the Opr will be there during the entire cutover process and testing so what problems show up when the Disp calls up a move and it fails, the Opr will be there to assist trains. Pat McKinney Altoona,Pa --part1_1dd.ecd893f.2c586918_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dave & List,
          If they remote "C" on= Aug.1, they must have been working around the clock since last Thur, as the= y didn't work on Fri and they still had alot of wiring to do, plus still ins= tall new dwarfs(as they would block the view of the present ones) and swing=20= in the new westbound home sig bridge. When it is ready I would think they wo= uld have to do it in sections and work out the bugs. Probably one track at a= time.
   I would think that the Opr will be there during the entire cuto= ver process and testing so what problems show up when the Disp calls up a mo= ve and it fails, the Opr will be there to assist trains.

Pat McKinney
Altoona,Pa --part1_1dd.ecd893f.2c586918_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] "C" Tower closes Aug.1,2003 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:57:32 -0400 List, It's interesting this came up. When i was on the trip last week I do recall seeing a signal bridge with the ehads covered up that were being replaced by NS, look slike Reading style, signals. I have afriend that dispatches for NS and the thing he misses the most is working in a tower. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:19:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR-FAX] "C" Tower closes Aug.1,2003 Hello List, This Friday, Aug 1st, another famed tower along the Pittsburgh Division will close for good. "C" (Conemaugh) Tower will go remote from Pittsburgh ending an era. Those of you in the Johnstown Pa. area this weekend should pay a visit to "C" Tower. It won't be long before ALTO Tower goes remote. I think that is the last manned tower left between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh. Dave Hopson ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge & refill kit orders to US & Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark & more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Rea" Subject: [PRR] PRR colors Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:36:55 -0400 PolyScale makes a color called PRR Maroon. Does anyone know where it would be appropriate to use it? It appears to be very close to their PRR Tuscan. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR colors Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:06:44 -0400 I Have found that Floquil Tuscan Red is an exact match for 1950's PRR Tuscan. John ------------------------------------------------------------ Fred wrote: PolyScale makes a color called PRR Maroon. Does anyone know where it would be appropriate to use it? It appears to be very close to their PRR Tuscan. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:17:04 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR colors From: Jerry Britton On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 01:06 PM, John Frantz wrote: > I Have found that Floquil Tuscan Red is an exact match for 1950's PRR > Tuscan. > John > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Fred wrote: > > PolyScale makes a color called PRR Maroon. Does anyone know where it > would > be appropriate to use it? It appears to be very close to their PRR > Tuscan. Don't have the painting diagrams and drift cards handy, but I'd guess if PolyScale is offering both "PRR Tuscan" and "PRR Maroon" that the Tuscan is the common color we are all used to and that the Maroon might be for the darker elongated oval window band used on the Leowy "Fleet of Modernism" scheme from the late 1930's. (Just a "three point shot" guess!) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:14:04 -0400 From: Don LaPlante Subject: [PRR] ITEMS FOR SALE HO SCALE ITEMS FOR SALE DL=DIRECTIONAL LIGHTING WITH CONSTANT BRIGHTNESS K/D= KADEE COUPLERS G/G=GREEN WITH GOLD STRIPES T/G=TUSCAN WITH GOLD STRIPES BOWSER 2-8-2 PRR FACTORY BUILT AND PAINTED NEW NO BOX $90 BOWSER 4-6-0 UNDEC. FACTORY BUILT AND PAINTED NEW IN BOX $99 BOWSER 4-6-2 PRR BUILT UP KIT NEW IN BOX $60 BOWSER 4-6-2 PRR BUILT UP KIT NEW IN BOX $60 RIVAROSSI E9 PRR G/G WITH 5 STRIPES K/D & DL assi $30 RIVAROSSI GG1 PRR G/G WITH 5 STRIPES K/D $25 ATHEARN SD9 PRR BLACK WITH K/D & DL NEW $30 ATHEARN SD9 PRR BLACK WITH K/D & DL NEW $30 ATHEARN SD9 PRR BLACK WITH K/D & DL NEW $30 ATHEARN PA PRR M/G 5 STRIPES WITH K/D & DL $30 LIONEL 0-6-0 PRR BLACK $50 AMERICAN FLYER 0-6-0 PRR BLACK $50 PEMCO GG1 PRR T/G 5 STRIPES WITH K/D NEW $30 PROTO 2000 PA/PB PRR G/G 5 STRIPES WITH K/D NEW IN BOX $50 MANTUA 4-4-2 PRR FACTORY BUILT AND PAINTED WITH K/D IN BOX NEW $60 WALTHERS 12 MAINTAINENCE OF WAY CARS PRR YELLOW WITH K/D $50 HELJAN TURNTABLE NEW IN BOX $25 HELJAN TURNTABLE MOTOR DRIVE NEW IN BOX $20 MAKE ALL INQUIREYS TO JDLAPLANTE@RCN.COM ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Blackhawk" Subject: [PRR] Custom N Scale H 10s For Sale Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:19:33 -0700 Hi folks, I have listed a custom N Scale H 10s on ebay this week, with a starting price of $9.99. I am a professional modeler specializing in Pennsy equipment, and I'm hoping to generate some cash to buy more raw materials (engines!) for conversion into the One True Road with this sale. The model looks good and runs very well. Purists will note that it does not have the prototypical Belpaire firebox; this was left off because I ran out of my self-allotted time put into the engine's customization. If someone does win the auction and wishes to order the firebox lines added onto the model, I will happily oblige. The link to the auction follows: http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3140427741 Thanks for your time... I've just joined the list, and there is some awesome info in the archive! Forgive me if I re-ask a question that's been beaten to death; I'll try to responsibly cover my bases in the archive first. :-) Regards, David Chong Central Coast, CA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:33:38 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] For Sale Ads From: Jerry Britton Folks, second one today... For Sale ads are only permitted on the list on the 1st and 15th days of the month. (Under special circumstances the listmaster will run an ad outside of this rule. Example: announcement of Bennett's recent Warrior Ridge excursion.) See http://lists.dsop.com/prr/ . This is nothing new, but a compromise reached years ago for the numerous subscribers who do not wish to see for sale ads on a daily basis. On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 03:19 PM, Blackhawk wrote: > I have listed a custom N Scale H 10s on ebay this week, with a starting > price of $9.99. I am a professional modeler specializing in Pennsy > equipment, and I'm hoping to generate some cash to buy more raw > materials > (engines!) for conversion into the One True Road with this sale. The > model > looks good and runs very well. Purists will note that it does not have > the > prototypical Belpaire firebox; this was left off because I ran out of > my > self-allotted time put into the engine's customization. If someone > does win > the auction and wishes to order the firebox lines added onto the > model, I > will happily oblige. The link to the auction follows: > > http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3140427741 > > Thanks for your time... I've just joined the list, and there is some > awesome > info in the archive! Forgive me if I re-ask a question that's been > beaten to > death; I'll try to responsibly cover my bases in the archive first. :-) > ---------------------------------------- Listmaster listmaster@dsop.com Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS e-Store Summer Sale Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:42:58 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C356B1.42FC0A80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit During the month of August the Society will be running a "Keystone" sale. All summer editions will be on sale for $9.00 (25% discount) at the e-Store ONLY, no write ins. Al ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C356B1.42FC0A80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message

During the month of August the Society will be = running a=20 "Keystone" sale.

All summer editions will be on sale for $9.00 = (25%=20 discount) at the e-Store ONLY, no write ins.

Al=20

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C356B1.42FC0A80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:42:58 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRRT&HS e-Store Summer Sale During the month of August the Society will be running a "Keystone" sale. All summer editions will be on sale for $9.00 (25% discount) at the e-Store ONLY, no write ins. Al [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge & refill kit orders to US & Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark & more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Blackhawk" Subject: Re: [PRR] For Sale Ads Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:45:44 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" Subject: Re: [PRR] For Sale Ads > Folks, second one today... > Thanks for the heads-up Jerry. I generally assume that most lists accept ads only on the 1st / 15th, but since I saw a one posted today I figured PRR-talk must not have the same guidelines. My regrets, and everyone please don't read my last post until Friday. :-) Regards, David ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: [PRR] RE: Modeling subjects Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:08:10 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C356D6.4C801B80 Content-Type: text/plain Hi all; I was wondering what you all are most interested in seeing, in terms of modeling, on PRR subjects? I mean, specifically, or even generally, what would you most like to see broken down in modeling terms, for your enjoyment? I do not mean what models a manufacturer might produce, but rather how a given class of car, for instance, might be modeled. Or a whole group of them. Are there specific freight cars you'd like to see modeled, and then discussed in detail? Diesels? Do you like the oddball diesels? What steam engines are begging for coverage? What passenger cars? Are there common structures you'd like to see modeled? What decals do you want made? Are you interested in paint, weathering, resin kit construction, or what? One of the points is, that there are a large number of subjects that will NEVER, EVER be produced for you, particularly with all the PRR-specific details on them. So, what can we do about that? Are you interested in knowing how to expeditiously get your fleet up and running? What you should have? How to model things that you might never see if you don't do them yourselves? Or, do you want to wait around until the magazines do their "One PRR subject a year" article on one single piece of equipment? Or would you like to see more? I look forward to your feedback. Elden ------_=_NextPart_001_01C356D6.4C801B80 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

=

Hi = all;

       &nbs= p;    I was wondering what you all are most interested in seeing, in terms of = modeling, on PRR subjects?  I mean, specifically, or even generally, what would you most = like to see broken down in modeling terms, for your enjoyment?  I do not mean what models a = manufacturer might produce, but rather how a given class of car, for instance, might = be modeled.  Or a whole group of them.

       &nbs= p;    Are there specific freight cars you'd like to see modeled, and then = discussed in detail?  Diesels?  Do you like the oddball = diesels?  What steam engines are begging = for coverage?  What passenger = cars?  Are there common structures = you'd like to see modeled?  What = decals do you want made?  Are you = interested in paint, weathering, resin kit construction, or = what?

       &nbs= p;    One of the points is, that there are a large = number of subjects that will NEVER, EVER be produced for you, particularly with = all the PRR-specific details on them.  = So, what can we do about that?  = Are you interested in knowing how to expeditiously get your fleet up and = running?  What you should have?  How to model things that you = might never see if you don't do them yourselves?

Or, do you want = to wait around until the magazines do their "One PRR subject a year" article on one single piece of equipment?  Or would you like to see more?

       &nbs= p;    I look forward to your feedback.

 

=

Elden

 


------_=_NextPart_001_01C356D6.4C801B80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR colors Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:29:01 -0500 I have found bottle to bottle variations with respect to Floquil. Like "beauty" an exact color is in the eye of the beholder. -----Original Message----- From: John Frantz [mailto:johnf2384@suscom.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 12:07 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Cc: Fred Rea Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR colors I Have found that Floquil Tuscan Red is an exact match for 1950's PRR Tuscan. John ------------------------------------------------------------ Fred wrote: PolyScale makes a color called PRR Maroon. Does anyone know where it would be appropriate to use it? It appears to be very close to their PRR Tuscan. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: Modeling subjects Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:39:52 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0111_01C356C1.951BA680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List, What I want to see most right now is X23 boxcars in a Westerfield type = resin kit or a laser cut wood kit, IN N SCALE. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ELDEN GATWOOD=20 To: 'PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com' ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 4:08 PM Subject: [PRR] RE: Modeling subjects =20 Hi all; I was wondering what you all are most interested in = seeing, in terms of modeling, on PRR subjects? I mean, specifically, or = even generally, what would you most like to see broken down in modeling = terms, for your enjoyment? I do not mean what models a manufacturer = might produce, but rather how a given class of car, for instance, might = be modeled. Or a whole group of them. Are there specific freight cars you'd like to see modeled, = and then discussed in detail? Diesels? Do you like the oddball = diesels? What steam engines are begging for coverage? What passenger = cars? Are there common structures you'd like to see modeled? What = decals do you want made? Are you interested in paint, weathering, resin = kit construction, or what? One of the points is, that there are a large number of = subjects that will NEVER, EVER be produced for you, particularly with = all the PRR-specific details on them. So, what can we do about that? = Are you interested in knowing how to expeditiously get your fleet up and = running? What you should have? How to model things that you might = never see if you don't do them yourselves? Or, do you want to wait around until the magazines do their "One PRR = subject a year" article on one single piece of equipment? Or would you = like to see more? I look forward to your feedback. =20 Elden =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0111_01C356C1.951BA680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
List,
 
What I want to see most right now is X23 boxcars in = a=20 Westerfield type resin kit or a laser cut wood kit, IN N=20 SCALE.
 
Gregg Mahlkov
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 ELDEN=20 GATWOOD
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 = 4:08=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] RE: Modeling=20 subjects

 

Hi=20 all;

           =20 I was wondering what you all are most interested in seeing, in = terms of=20 modeling, on PRR subjects?  I mean, specifically, or = even=20 generally, what would you most like to see broken down in modeling = terms, for=20 your enjoyment?  I do = not mean=20 what models a manufacturer might produce, but rather how a given class = of car,=20 for instance, might be modeled. =20 Or a whole group of=20 them.

           =20 Are there specific freight cars you'd like to see modeled, and = then=20 discussed in detail?  = Diesels?  = Do=20 you like the oddball diesels? =20 What steam engines are begging for coverage?  What passenger cars?  Are there common structures = you'd like=20 to see modeled?  What = decals do=20 you want made?  Are you = interested=20 in paint, weathering, resin kit construction, or=20 what?

           =20 One of the points is, that there are = a large=20 number of subjects that will NEVER, EVER be produced for you, = particularly=20 with all the PRR-specific details on them.  So, what can we do about = that?  Are you interested in = knowing how to=20 expeditiously get your fleet up and running?  What you should have?  How to model things that you = might=20 never see if you don't do them = yourselves?

Or, do=20 you want to wait around until the magazines do their "One PRR subject = a year"=20 article on one single piece of equipment?  Or would you like to see=20 more?

           =20 I look forward to your feedback.

 

Elden

 


------=_NextPart_000_0111_01C356C1.951BA680-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: Modeling subjects Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:41:18 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C356E3.4F9251A0 Content-Type: text/plain Gregg, Let me see if I can find someone who can model one of these guys and pass that info on to you. But I am specifically not asking for kit suggestions, just modeling topics that folks want to see presented. Elden -----Original Message----- From: Gregg Mahlkov [mailto:mahlkov@gtcom.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 2:40 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: Modeling subjects List, What I want to see most right now is X23 boxcars in a Westerfield type resin kit or a laser cut wood kit, IN N SCALE. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: ELDEN GATWOOD To: 'PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com' ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 4:08 PM Subject: [PRR] RE: Modeling subjects Hi all; I was wondering what you all are most interested in seeing, in terms of modeling, on PRR subjects? I mean, specifically, or even generally, what would you most like to see broken down in modeling terms, for your enjoyment? I do not mean what models a manufacturer might produce, but rather how a given class of car, for instance, might be modeled. Or a whole group of them. Are there specific freight cars you'd like to see modeled, and then discussed in detail? Diesels? Do you like the oddball diesels? What steam engines are begging for coverage? What passenger cars? Are there common structures you'd like to see modeled? What decals do you want made? Are you interested in paint, weathering, resin kit construction, or what? One of the points is, that there are a large number of subjects that will NEVER, EVER be produced for you, particularly with all the PRR-specific details on them. So, what can we do about that? Are you interested in knowing how to expeditiously get your fleet up and running? What you should have? How to model things that you might never see if you don't do them yourselves? Or, do you want to wait around until the magazines do their "One PRR subject a year" article on one single piece of equipment? Or would you like to see more? I look forward to your feedback. Elden ------_=_NextPart_001_01C356E3.4F9251A0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Gregg,  Let me see if I can = find someone who can model one of these guys and pass that info on to you.  But I am specifically not = asking for kit suggestions, just modeling topics that folks want to see = presented.

Elden

 

=

-----Original = Message-----
From: Gregg Mahlkov [mailto:mahlkov@gtcom.net]
Sent: = Wednesday, July 30, = 2003 2:40 PM
To: = PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: = Modeling subjects

 

List,

 

What I want to see most right now is X23 = boxcars in a Westerfield type resin kit or a laser cut wood kit, IN N = SCALE.

 

Gregg Mahlkov

----- Original Message = -----

Sent: Wednesday, July 30, = 2003 4:08 PM

Subject: [PRR] RE: Modeling subjects

 

 

Hi = all;

         I was = wondering what you all are most interested in seeing, in terms of modeling, on PRR subjects?  I mean, specifically, or even generally, what would you most like to see = broken down in modeling terms, for your enjoyment?  I do not mean what models a manufacturer might produce, but = rather how a given class of car, for instance, might be modeled.  Or a whole group of = them.

         Are there = specific freight cars you'd like to see modeled, and then discussed in detail?  Diesels?  Do you = like the oddball diesels?  What steam = engines are begging for coverage?  What = passenger cars?  Are there common structures = you'd like to see modeled?  What decals do = you want made?  Are you interested = in paint, weathering, resin kit construction, or = what?

         One of the = points is, that there are a large number of subjects that will NEVER, EVER be produced for you, particularly with = all the PRR-specific details on them.  = So, what can we do about that?  Are = you interested in knowing how to expeditiously get your fleet up and running?  What you should have?  How to model things that you = might never see if you don't do them yourselves?

Or, do you want to wait around until the magazines do their "One PRR subject a year" article on one single piece of equipment?  Or would you = like to see more?

         I look = forward to your feedback.

 

Elden=

 

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01C356E3.4F9251A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: Modeling subjects Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:49:04 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C356E4.650A4550 Content-Type: text/plain Marvin, As you've probably seen your share of passenger and freight stations, and undoubtedly notice few alike, it seems that the guidelines would have been VERY general. Like the use of board-and-batten siding, or paint colors. But there do seem to be somewhat-standard structures like water towers and grade crossing structures that adhered to std plans. Let me ask around. Elden -----Original Message----- From: Cadwell, Marvin L [mailto:cadwelml@bp.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 2:04 PM To: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: Modeling subjects How about building and structures? Are their typical guidlines that can be incorporated into our buildings on our model layouts? -----Original Message----- From: ELDEN GATWOOD [mailto:ELDEN.GATWOOD@ttisg.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 3:08 PM To: 'PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com'; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] RE: Modeling subjects Hi all; I was wondering what you all are most interested in seeing, in terms of modeling, on PRR subjects? I mean, specifically, or even generally, what would you most like to see broken down in modeling terms, for your enjoyment? I do not mean what models a manufacturer might produce, but rather how a given class of car, for instance, might be modeled. Or a whole group of them. Are there specific freight cars you'd like to see modeled, and then discussed in detail? Diesels? Do you like the oddball diesels? What steam engines are begging for coverage? What passenger cars? Are there common structures you'd like to see modeled? What decals do you want made? Are you interested in paint, weathering, resin kit construction, or what? One of the points is, that there are a large number of subjects that will NEVER, EVER be produced for you, particularly with all the PRR-specific details on them. So, what can we do about that? Are you interested in knowing how to expeditiously get your fleet up and running? What you should have? How to model things that you might never see if you don't do them yourselves? Or, do you want to wait around until the magazines do their "One PRR subject a year" article on one single piece of equipment? Or would you like to see more? I look forward to your feedback. Elden ------_=_NextPart_001_01C356E4.650A4550 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Marvin, As you've probably seen your share of passenger and freight stations, and = undoubtedly notice few alike, it seems that the guidelines would have been VERY = general.  Like the use of = board-and-batten siding, or paint colors.  But = there do seem to be somewhat-standard structures like water towers and grade crossing structures that adhered to std plans.  Let me ask = around.

Elden

 

=

-----Original = Message-----
From: Cadwell, Marvin L [mailto:cadwelml@bp.com]
Sent: = Wednesday, July 30, = 2003 2:04 PM
To: ELDEN GATWOOD
Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: = Modeling subjects

 

How about = building and structures?  Are their typical guidlines that can be incorporated = into our buildings on our model layouts?

-----Original Message-----
From: ELDEN GATWOOD [mailto:ELDEN.GATWOOD@ttisg.com]
Sent: = Wednesday, July 30, = 2003 3:08 PM
To: 'PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com'; PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] RE: = Modeling subjects

 

Hi = all;

            = I was wondering what you all are most interested in seeing, in terms of = modeling, on PRR subjects?  I mean, specifically, or even generally, what would you most like to see broken = down in modeling terms, for your enjoyment?  I do not mean what models a manufacturer might produce, but = rather how a given class of car, for instance, might be modeled.  Or a whole group of = them.

            = Are there specific freight cars you'd like to see modeled, and then = discussed in detail?  Diesels?  Do you like the oddball = diesels?  What steam engines are begging = for coverage?  What passenger = cars?  Are there common structures = you'd like to see modeled?  What = decals do you want made?  Are you = interested in paint, weathering, resin kit construction, or = what?

            = One of the points is, that there are a large number of subjects that will = NEVER, EVER be produced for you, particularly with all the PRR-specific = details on them.  So, what can we do = about that?  Are you interested = in knowing how to expeditiously get your fleet up and running?  What you should have?  How to model things that you = might never see if you don't do them yourselves?

Or, do you want to wait around until the magazines do their "One PRR subject a year" article on one single piece of equipment?  Or would you = like to see more?

            = I look forward to your feedback.

 

Elden=

 

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01C356E4.650A4550-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: rla0220@enter.net Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:45:51 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 07/30/03 I would like to see more trackside items such as dwarf signals, pedestal signals, T boxes, and of course the octagon concrete phone booths, along with station signs and tower signs. If these items already exist you must forgive me because it is either the worlds best kept secret or I do not have the right connections. Everytime I ask at various shops no one seems to know what I am talking about. Oh one other item; those PRR handrails on bridges and culverts etc. Thanks My 2 cents for what it's worth. Rich Ader PRR northern region ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Morgan Bilbo" Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: Modeling subjects Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:03:02 -0500

Hi Elden

How about an article or some ideas on how to get an H6 from ?whatever other is out there?

I'm not sure if this is what you are requesting.  I understand the "non-kit", but got confused about - "just modeling topics that folks want to see presented"  I kind of like the idea of our asking fellow listers "what did you do with what kit to make it an accurate (or reasonable facsimile of) model".

That is "not asking" for new articles or such, but asking fellow modelers what they've done.  Is that what you want us to start discussing?

Morgan Bilbo, PRRTHS #1204


MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Blackhawk" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: Modeling subjects Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:28:22 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C356B7.982A51A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My preference would be to see articles that include 3-aspect diagrams of = prototype locomotives (especially steam) and rolling stock complete with = color-balanced photographs. This helps us scratchbuild the things we = cannot purchase. David ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C356B7.982A51A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My preference would be to see articles that include 3-aspect = diagrams=20 of prototype locomotives (especially steam) and rolling stock complete = with=20 color-balanced photographs. This helps us scratchbuild the things we = cannot=20 purchase.
 
David
------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C356B7.982A51A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: Modeling subjects Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:39:01 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C356F3.C1702620 Content-Type: text/plain Yes, Morgan, that's exactly it. I want to get feedback on what articles, procedures, photos, etc. people would like to see on the PRR modeling subjects they are most curious about. Your request to see an H6 is a good one. I recognize that this list is not the forum to pass on detailed articles on "how I did this", as those kinds of things get rather long and involved, and the inclusion of photos and big attachments is forbidden, but it is the perfect forum for soliciting input on that subject. If you all can keep giving me ideas about what you want to get information back on modeling PRR subjects, we will see what we can do about fulfilling that list. We may not get to it as fast as some may want, but we will certainly try to, and in a forum that is accessible to everyone, even those not on a list, or with a computer of their own. So, let's hear 'em! Elden -----Original Message----- From: Morgan Bilbo [mailto:pennsynut@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 4:03 PM To: ELDEN GATWOOD; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: Modeling subjects Hi Elden How about an article or some ideas on how to get an H6 from ?whatever other is out there? I'm not sure if this is what you are requesting. I understand the "non-kit", but got confused about - "just modeling topics that folks want to see presented" I kind of like the idea of our asking fellow listers "what did you do with what kit to make it an accurate (or reasonable facsimile of) model". That is "not asking" for new articles or such, but asking fellow modelers what they've done. Is that what you want us to start discussing? Morgan Bilbo, PRRTHS #1204 _____ MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C356F3.C1702620 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yes, Morgan, that's exactly = it.  I want to get feedback on what = articles, procedures, photos, etc. people would like to see on the PRR modeling = subjects they are most curious about.

       &nbs= p;    Your request to see an H6 is a good one.

       &nbs= p;    I recognize that this list is not the forum to pass on detailed articles = on "how I did this", as those kinds of things get rather long and involved, and the inclusion of photos and big attachments is forbidden, but it is the = perfect forum for soliciting input on that subject. 

       &nbs= p;    If you all can keep giving me ideas about what you want to get information = back on modeling PRR subjects, we will see what we can do about fulfilling that list.  We may not get to = it as fast as some may want, but we will certainly try to, and in a forum that is accessible to everyone, even those not on a list, or with a computer of = their own.

       &nbs= p;    So, let's hear 'em!

 

=

Elden

 

=

-----Original = Message-----
From: Morgan Bilbo [mailto:pennsynut@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July = 30, 2003 4:03 PM
To: ELDEN GATWOOD; PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: = Modeling subjects

 

Hi Elden

How about an article or some ideas on how to = get an H6 from ?whatever other is out there?

I'm not sure if this is what you are = requesting.  I understand the "non-kit", but got confused about - = "just modeling topics that folks want to see presented"  I kind of = like the idea of our asking fellow listers "what did you do with what kit = to make it an accurate (or reasonable facsimile of) = model".

That is "not asking" for new = articles or such, but asking fellow modelers what they've done.  Is that what = you want us to start discussing?

Morgan Bilbo, PRRTHS = #1204


MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL = VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*.

----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C356F3.C1702620-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 07/30/03 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:43:01 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C356F4.508B9600 Content-Type: text/plain Good ideas, Rich. I will pass all this on. Elden -----Original Message----- From: rla0220@enter.net [mailto:rla0220@enter.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 2:46 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 07/30/03 I would like to see more trackside items such as dwarf signals, pedestal signals, T boxes, and of course the octagon concrete phone booths, along with station signs and tower signs. If these items already exist you must forgive me because it is either the worlds best kept secret or I do not have the right connections. Everytime I ask at various shops no one seems to know what I am talking about. Oh one other item; those PRR handrails on bridges and culverts etc. Thanks My 2 cents for what it's worth. Rich Ader PRR northern region ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C356F4.508B9600 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 07/30/03

Good ideas, Rich.  I will pass all this = on.
Elden

-----Original Message-----
From: rla0220@enter.net [mailto:rla0220@enter.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 2:46 PM
To: PRR-Talk
Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 07/30/03

I would like to see more trackside items such as = dwarf signals,
pedestal signals, T boxes, and of course the octagon = concrete
phone booths, along with station signs and tower = signs.  If these
items already exist you must forgive me because it = is either the
worlds best kept secret or I do not have the right = connections.
Everytime I ask at various shops no one seems to = know what I am
talking about.
Oh one other item;  those PRR handrails on = bridges and culverts
etc.
Thanks
My 2 cents for what it's worth.
Rich Ader  
PRR northern region

---------------------------------------------------------------= --------
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C356F4.508B9600-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: Modeling subjects Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:46:02 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C356F4.BC694390 Content-Type: text/plain OK, David, I will see what we can do. Elden -----Original Message----- From: Blackhawk [mailto:blackhawk@progameplay.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 4:28 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: Modeling subjects My preference would be to see articles that include 3-aspect diagrams of prototype locomotives (especially steam) and rolling stock complete with color-balanced photographs. This helps us scratchbuild the things we cannot purchase. David ------_=_NextPart_001_01C356F4.BC694390 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

OK, David, I will see what we can = do.

Elden

 

=

-----Original = Message-----
From: Blackhawk [mailto:blackhawk@progameplay.net]
Sent: = Wednesday, July 30, = 2003 4:28 PM
To: = PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: = Modeling subjects

 

My preference would be to see articles that include 3-aspect diagrams of prototype locomotives (especially = steam) and rolling stock complete with color-balanced photographs. This helps us scratchbuild the things we cannot = purchase.

 

David

------_=_NextPart_001_01C356F4.BC694390-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Chrisandbelton2@aol.com Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:07:30 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: Modeling subjects --part1_123.244be7fd.2c59b7c2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are two things I would like to see done well (if at all) in the modeling industry: 1 - a thorough and well-written article on replicating PRR signaling, including common signaling practices, interperetation and use of the various aspects, and how to model working position light signals in the realm of two-rail wiring on the model railroad. 2 - having some manufacturer produce some of the more esoteric decals for Pennsy passenger cars that were operated in joint-train assignments like Union Pacific-style lettering, Southern Railway-style lettering, etc. Just my two cents worth... Chris Baker #1918 --part1_123.244be7fd.2c59b7c2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There are two things I would like to see done well (if= at all) in the modeling industry:

1 - a thorough and well-written article on replicating PRR signaling, includ= ing common signaling practices, interperetation and use of the various aspec= ts, and how to model working position light signals in the realm of two-rail= wiring on the model railroad. 

2 - having some manufacturer produce some of the more esoteric decals for Pe= nnsy passenger cars that were operated in joint-train assignments like Union= Pacific-style lettering, Southern Railway-style lettering, etc.

Just my two cents worth...

Chris Baker  #1918 --part1_123.244be7fd.2c59b7c2_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ray Thibaut" Subject: [PRR] Sorry I've been had ! jdbgmgr.html was just a hoax Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:45:58 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C356D3.32DB0AD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tim Carrig=20 To: Ray Thibaut=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 1:44 PM Subject: Re: Ray- Here is a link that might be of interest to you regarding this message. http://www.utexas.edu/its/alerts/jdbgmgr.html Check it out. Tim ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ray Thibaut=20 To: Undisclosed-Recipient: ; @dbscorp.net=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 8:15 PM Unfortunately a Virus has been passed on to me by a contact. My address book WAS infected, and since you are in my address book there is a good chance you will find it in your computer too. The virus is NOT detected by Norton or McAfee antivirus systems. The virus sits quietly for 14 days before damaging the system. It is sent automatically by messenger and by the address book, whether or not you sent e-mail to your contacts.=20 Here's how to check for the Virus and how to get rid of it: 1. Go to START, select SEARCH or FIND 2. In the file folder option, type the name of the virus: =20 jdbgmgr.exe 3. Be sure you search your C drive and all subfolders and any other drives you may have. 4. Click "find now" 5. The virus has a teddy bear icon, with the name "jdbgmgr.exe" DO NOT OPEN IT! 6. Go to EDIT (on the menu bar) and choose SELECT ALL to highlight the file without opening it 7. Now go to FILE (on the menu bar) and select DELETE. It will then go to the recycle bin. 8. If you find the virus, YOU MUST CONTACT ALL THE PEOPLE IN YOUR ADDRESS BOOK WITH THIS MESSAGE. 9. To do this: A) Open a new e-mail message B) Click the icon of the address book next to the "TO" C) Highlight every name and add to "BCC" (blind copy) D) Copy this message and paste to e-mail ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C356D3.32DB0AD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Tim = Carrig
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 1:44 PM
Subject: Re:

Ray-
 
Here is a link that might be of = interest to you=20 regarding this message.
 
http://www.utexas.= edu/its/alerts/jdbgmgr.html
 
Check it out.
 
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ray = Thibaut=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 = 8:15=20 PM

Unfortunately a Virus has been passed = on to me by=20 a contact.  My
address
book WAS infected,  and since = you are=20 in my address book there is a
good
chance you will find it in = your=20 computer too.  The virus is NOT
detected by
Norton or = McAfee=20 antivirus systems.  The virus sits quietly for = 14
days
before=20 damaging the system.  It is sent automatically by messenger=20 and
by
the address book, whether or not you sent e-mail to your=20 contacts.
Here's
how to check for the Virus and how to get rid = of=20 it:

    1. Go to START, select SEARCH or=20 FIND
    2. In the file folder option, type the name = of the=20 virus: 
jdbgmgr.exe
    3. Be sure you = search your=20 C drive and all subfolders and any
other
drives you may=20 have.
    4. Click "find now"
    = 5. The=20 virus has a teddy bear icon, with the name "jdbgmgr.exe" = DO
NOT
OPEN=20 IT!
    6. Go to EDIT (on the menu bar) and choose = SELECT=20 ALL to highlight
the
file without opening = it
    7.=20 Now go to FILE (on the menu bar) and select DELETE.  It = will
then=20 go
to the recycle bin.
    8. If you find the = virus, YOU=20 MUST CONTACT ALL THE PEOPLE IN YOUR
ADDRESS BOOK WITH THIS=20 MESSAGE.
    9. To do=20 = this:
          &nbs= p; A)=20 Open a new e-mail=20 = message
          &n= bsp;=20 B) Click the icon of the address book next to the=20 = "TO"
           = ; C)=20 Highlight every name and add to "BCC" (blind=20 = copy)
          &nbs= p; D)=20 Copy this message and paste to = e-mail
------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C356D3.32DB0AD0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR-Modeling] RE: [PRR] RE: Modeling subjects Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:37:55 -0400 As a follow up to some of the fine comments that are being made, don't be too concerned about the length of an article. If articles get too long to be effectively handled via email we will simply issue the first few pages of a monthly edition with a hyperlink to the Society's website for the entire contents of the magazine. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Frank Stingone" Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: Modeling subjects Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 0:9:19 -0400
Elden,
 
Now you have intrigued me. If I read between the lines of your last paragraph, you are implying the formation of some sort of "media" in which this knowledge, however detailed it may be, will be conveyed to us modelers, whether we have a computer or not. Are you talking about some sort of forthcoming newsletter or magazine? And, excuse my ignorance here, who is the "WE" to which you refer? In any event, I'll take one!!
 
My requests? Excuse the scvale specificity. Well, therted ready exists in electronic form several "articles" regarding the improvement/modernization of N-scale Minitrix PRR steamers (the only N-scale out there with the Belpaire firebox). I would like to see them in printed form with diagrams and pictures for easy reference. Jim Cullen has several. I believe Claus Schlund has one also? They are for the K4s.
 
Perhaps some articles on the conversion of other N-scale steamers to PRR. I know a couple of people have made H10's from Bachman Consolidations using different methods. Bachman has announced a 4-8-2 Mountain. How about converting one to an M1. Someone has had to have done one in HO by now. The N version should not be too different?
 
How about making correct N-scale PRR tenders.
 
Not too long ago there was an e-conversation on this forum regarding the specific details that make a layout PRR. There were a lot of great suggestions that came out of that. (Most of the suggestions actually screamed Pittsburgh as well as Pennsy! I recognized many of them immediately and loved them all.) I would like to see that expanded, illustrated and printed.
 
 
Frank Stingone
VP - P&LERRHS
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 7/30/2003 7:39:01 PM
Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: Modeling subjects

Yes, Morgan, that's exactly it.  I want to get feedback on what articles, procedures, photos, etc. people would like to see on the PRR modeling subjects they are most curious about.

            Your request to see an H6 is a good one.

            I recognize that this list is not the forum to pass on detailed articles on "how I did this", as those kinds of things get rather long and involved, and the inclusion of photos and big attachments is forbidden, but it is the perfect forum for soliciting input on that subject. 

            If you all can keep giving me ideas about what you want to get information back on modeling PRR subjects, we will see what we can do about fulfilling that list.  We may not get to it as fast as some may want, but we will certainly try to, and in a forum that is accessible to everyone, even those not on a list, or with a computer of their own.

            So, let's hear 'em!

 

Elden

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Morgan Bilbo [mailto:pennsynut@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 4:03 PM
To: ELDEN GATWOOD; PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: Modeling subjects

 

Hi Elden

How about an article or some ideas on how to get an H6 from ?whatever other is out there?

I'm not sure if this is what you are requesting.  I understand the "non-kit", but got confused about - "just modeling topics that folks want to see presented"  I kind of like the idea of our asking fellow listers "what did you do with what kit to make it an accurate (or reasonable facsimile of) model".

That is "not asking" for new articles or such, but asking fellow modelers what they've done.  Is that what you want us to start discussing?

Morgan Bilbo, PRRTHS #1204


MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*.

 
--- Frank Stingone
--- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 07:34:50 -0400 From: TWRimer@uss.com Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: Modeling subjects Would be great to see articles on various branchlines along the system. Many of us modeling the PRR try modeling a portion of the mainline from point A to point B, and unless we have unlimited space or choose to model a "reasonable" portion of the mainline the final product often falls short in capturing the feel of the Pennsy mainline. A branchline, however, is a more reasonable modeling possibility since many were short (under 10 miles) and had a backwoods flavor to them that you would expect to find on a shortline. By modeling a branchline along with the junction to the mainline, larger locomotives could still be used. The standard branchline locomotives along the branches in the Pittsburgh area were the H10 in the steam era and the GP7, GP9, and RS3 in the diesel era. I would love to see such articles. Tom Rimer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: Modeling subjects Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:08:01 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C3573A.E045B410 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frank, et al. For those of you who might have missed it in the July edition of "The Keystone e-NEWS" the Society is starting a new online magazine "The Keystone Modeler," (TKM) the first edition of which will be released tomorrow, August 1, 2003. All current subscribers to the e-NEWS will automatically receive a copy of TKM. If you do not get the e-NEWS you may do so be sending a blank email to: < mailto:keystone-e-news-request@lists.keystone-pubs.org?Subject=subscribe > If you wish to get TKM send a blank email to: TKM is available to all, especially those who are not online or who do not have a computer, by visiting their local library and viewing it on the Society's website ( www.prrths.com). Al ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C3573A.E045B410 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Frank, et=20 al.
 
For those of = you who might=20 have missed it in the July edition of "The Keystone e-NEWS" the Society = is=20 starting a new online magazine "The Keystone Modeler," (TKM) the first = edition=20 of which will be released tomorrow, August 1, 2003.  All current=20 subscribers to the e-NEWS will automatically receive a copy of=20 TKM.
 
If you do not = get the=20 e-NEWS you may do so be sending a blank email to:

<mailto:keystone-e-news-request@lists.keystone-pubs.org?Subje= ct=3Dsubscribe>

 
If you wish to = get TKM send=20 a blank email to:
<mailto:the-keystone-modeler-request@lists.keystone-pubs.o= rg?Subject=3Dsubscribe>

 

TKM is = available to all,=20 especially those who are not online or who do not have a computer, by = visiting=20 their local library and viewing it on the Society’s website = (www.prrths.com).

 
Al
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C3573A.E045B410-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dave Pfeiffer" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: Modeling subjects Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:32:25 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0152_01C3573E.454A6C40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eldon, A topic I would like to see some more information on and has been = getting some attention on another list recently is early piggyback = equipment. Specifically for the PRR, I would like to see how to = correctly modify the Bowser F30 to an F30d, ways of improving (if = possible) the Walthers F39, and anything on modeling PRR trailers other = than the BCW kit. How about an article to modify the Athearn Genesis Mikado to a = correct PRR L2. Thanks. Dave Pfeiffer ------=_NextPart_000_0152_01C3573E.454A6C40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Eldon,
 
    A topic I would like = to see some=20 more information on and has been getting some attention on another list = recently=20 is early piggyback equipment.  Specifically for the PRR, I would = like to=20 see how to correctly modify the Bowser F30 to an F30d, ways of improving = (if=20 possible) the Walthers F39, and anything on modeling PRR trailers = other=20 than the BCW kit.
 
    How about an article = to modify=20 the Athearn Genesis Mikado to a correct PRR L2.
 
    Thanks.
 
Dave = Pfeiffer
------=_NextPart_000_0152_01C3573E.454A6C40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach" Subject: [PRR] BLI GG1 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:30:21 -0400

I received my GG1 yesterday from Merchandise Service and here are my initial thoughts. The engine runs very smoothly and has an incredible amount of pulling power. The sound is also excellent and adds a nice touch. I should also note that the volume was already set at about the right level unlike the Class A which was too high. I was very impressed with how the volume knob is accessed which is through a panel on the roof that is held into place by a magnet. The is a great way to conceal the controls.  Among the control is the switch for overhead operation. The separate detailing on the engine is very nice and the general look of the engine appears to be at least very close. (I have not had the time nor the inclination to measure it for accurateness) The paint is applied very nicely and the lettering is very crisp.
As for the dislikes, my biggest gripe is that mine came without instructions nor a warranty card. I will be emailing BLI about this. Also, I have not been able to get the pantagraphs up yet. There is probably a trick to this and I haven't spent much time at all trying. Some may think the DGLE is too light, on this issue I am undecided.
For the price of around $240, this engine is a great deal and I hope that it is the first of many Pennsy electric to come from BLI. I would love a P5a boxcab and modified with sound!
Eric
 
 
--- Eric Lauterbach
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
 

----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] PRR (PRR MODELING) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:32:53 -0400 Eldon, I would liket o see some sort of artile on remotoring and or regearing either brass or Bowser. I have wanted to swap out motors and do NWSL gear box but have always been timid to get too far into it and not be able to get it complete. I think that would be a good topic. Sam Vastano _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:47:41 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Alco Centuries from Atlas! From: Jerry Britton (Not an ad, but a public service announcement.) Today Atlas announced HO and N scale Alco Centuries! In N scale, the C628, including two Pennsy numbers and a Pennsy un-numbered, available with or without decoder. This would be Pennsy class AF27, first acquired in 1965. In HO scale, the C424/5. No Pennsy in the first run, but Undecorated is available. The 424 would be Pennsy class AF24a, first acquired in 1963. The 425 would be Pennsy class AF25, first acquired in 1964. Both are due in December. Both have guaranteed order deadlines of August 28th. Too late for my modeling! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dave Vinci" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: Modeling subjects Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:52:12 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C35751.CC600C40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hmmm.... let's see, in no particular order... Towers (brick and frame) signal bridges semiphore signals upper and lower quadrant and which ones were used = where & when how are folks modeling the train order signals (ie yellow or red flags = hanging from tower windows?), how about those loop-top fences between = the tracks at stations? test weight cars well-type flat cars MOW equipment (pre WWII) how about placement of car scales? When were the hoppers weighed? At = the mine, in the yards, both? Just some stuff to chew on. Dave ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ELDEN GATWOOD=20 To: 'PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com' ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 4:08 PM Subject: [PRR] RE: Modeling subjects =20 Hi all; I was wondering what you all are most interested in = seeing, in terms of modeling, on PRR subjects? I mean, specifically, or = even generally, what would you most like to see broken down in modeling = terms, for your enjoyment? I do not mean what models a manufacturer = might produce, but rather how a given class of car, for instance, might = be modeled. Or a whole group of them. Are there specific freight cars you'd like to see modeled, = and then discussed in detail? Diesels? Do you like the oddball = diesels? What steam engines are begging for coverage? What passenger = cars? Are there common structures you'd like to see modeled? What = decals do you want made? Are you interested in paint, weathering, resin = kit construction, or what? One of the points is, that there are a large number of = subjects that will NEVER, EVER be produced for you, particularly with = all the PRR-specific details on them. So, what can we do about that? = Are you interested in knowing how to expeditiously get your fleet up and = running? What you should have? How to model things that you might = never see if you don't do them yourselves? Or, do you want to wait around until the magazines do their "One PRR = subject a year" article on one single piece of equipment? Or would you = like to see more? I look forward to your feedback. =20 Elden =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C35751.CC600C40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hmmm.... let's see, in no = particular=20 order...
 
Towers (brick and = frame)
signal bridges
semiphore signals upper and = lower=20 quadrant and which ones were used where & when
how are folks modeling the = train order=20 signals (ie yellow or red flags hanging from tower windows?), how about = those=20 loop-top fences between the tracks at stations?
test weight cars
well-type flat = cars
MOW equipment (pre = WWII)
how about placement of car = scales? =20 When were the hoppers weighed?  At the mine, in the yards,=20 both?
 
Just some stuff to chew = on.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 ELDEN=20 GATWOOD
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 = 4:08=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] RE: Modeling=20 subjects

 

Hi=20 all;

           =20 I was wondering what you all are most interested in seeing, in = terms of=20 modeling, on PRR subjects?  I mean, specifically, or = even=20 generally, what would you most like to see broken down in modeling = terms, for=20 your enjoyment?  I do = not mean=20 what models a manufacturer might produce, but rather how a given class = of car,=20 for instance, might be modeled. =20 Or a whole group of=20 them.

           =20 Are there specific freight cars you'd like to see modeled, and = then=20 discussed in detail?  = Diesels?  = Do=20 you like the oddball diesels? =20 What steam engines are begging for coverage?  What passenger cars?  Are there common structures = you'd like=20 to see modeled?  What = decals do=20 you want made?  Are you = interested=20 in paint, weathering, resin kit construction, or=20 what?

           =20 One of the points is, that there are = a large=20 number of subjects that will NEVER, EVER be produced for you, = particularly=20 with all the PRR-specific details on them.  So, what can we do about = that?  Are you interested in = knowing how to=20 expeditiously get your fleet up and running?  What you should have?  How to model things that you = might=20 never see if you don't do them = yourselves?

Or, do=20 you want to wait around until the magazines do their "One PRR subject = a year"=20 article on one single piece of equipment?  Or would you like to see=20 more?

           =20 I look forward to your feedback.

 

Elden

 


------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C35751.CC600C40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:02:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Alco Centuries from Atlas! On Thu, 31 Jul 2003, Jerry Britton wrote: > In HO scale, the C424/5. No Pennsy in the first run, but Undecorated is > available. The 424 would be Pennsy class AF24a, first acquired in 1963. > The 425 would be Pennsy class AF25, first acquired in 1964. They already did these, I haven't looked but I'd guess it's the usual Atlas Classic deal, they'll clean it up a bit and put it on their current mechanism. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alex Charyna" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI GG1 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 07:25:15 -0800 > Also, I have not been able to get the pantagraphs up yet. There is probably > a trick to this and I haven't spent much time at all trying. Has anyone gotten the pantographs up? I pulled on them, and actually bent one of the ends a bit. If it's any consolation, Eric, those directions ARENT in the manual. -alex ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "PennsyRRfan" Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:40:08 GMT Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI GG1 From: PennsyRRfan Alex wrote: >Has anyone gotten the pantographs up? I pulled on them, and actually >bent one of the ends a bit. >If it's any consolation, Eric, those directions ARENT in the manual. Yes they are. It is at the bottom of page 26. I was able to raise the front easily. The rear was much harder. You have to grasp them along the LONG edges of the contact area, NOT by the sides Paul R. Greenwald Proud owner of BLI GG1 #4905 PRRT&HS 1802 Phila Chapter 2009 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - NetZero HiSpeed! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month -visit www.netzero.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrew S. Miller" Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:47:52 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] BLI GG1 I got my BLI GG1 last night and spent some time trying to raise the pans. They do pull straight up. I too was surprised that the instructions say nothing about this. There are two cross members, visible under the contacts, which grasp an indentation in the center post. I was also very disappointed in the couplers. They are almost as atrocious looking as the "NMRAs on a stick" which protrude from an AHM passenger car. The problem seems to be that there is no room under the pilot for an adequate sized draft gear box, so the centering mechanism is external. This causes the coupler to stick waaay out and to have what looks like a basketball backboard behind it. It ruins an otherwise beautiful model. Now for the good news. The model is gorgeous and the sound put me in heaven. I sat there all night with the engine in idle listening to the occasional sound of the compressor and the air relief. I could just see myself as a kid on one of my beloved trips to Penn Station NY. This was the sound I remember as I stood in awe in the basement of the Baths of Caraculla, surrounded by G's at head end of a never ending array of beautiful trains: the clockers, the Congo and the Crescent, the Senator and the Silver Star, the General and the George Washington, a sea of P70s and the continuous hustle of PRR MP54s on one side and LIRR ones on the other. This is when I fell in love with trains and the PRR. Bravo BLI. I slept with a smile on my face last night ;-) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Alex Charyna wrote: > > Also, I have not been able to get the pantagraphs up yet. There is > probably > > a trick to this and I haven't spent much time at all trying. > > Has anyone gotten the pantographs up? I pulled on them, and actually bent > one of the ends a bit. > If it's any consolation, Eric, those directions ARENT in the manual. > > -alex > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. -- ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge & refill kit orders to US & Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark & more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:47:52 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI GG1 I got my BLI GG1 last night and spent some time trying to raise the pans. They do pull straight up. I too was surprised that the instructions say nothing about this. There are two cross members, visible under the contacts, which grasp an indentation in the center post. I was also very disappointed in the couplers. They are almost as atrocious looking as the "NMRAs on a stick" which protrude from an AHM passenger car. The problem seems to be that there is no room under the pilot for an adequate sized draft gear box, so the centering mechanism is external. This causes the coupler to stick waaay out and to have what looks like a basketball backboard behind it. It ruins an otherwise beautiful model. Now for the good news. The model is gorgeous and the sound put me in heaven. I sat there all night with the engine in idle listening to the occasional sound of the compressor and the air relief. I could just see myself as a kid on one of my beloved trips to Penn Station NY. This was the sound I remember as I stood in awe in the basement of the Baths of Caraculla, surrounded by G's at head end of a never ending array of beautiful trains: the clockers, the Congo and the Crescent, the Senator and the Silver Star, the General and the George Washington, a sea of P70s and the continuous hustle of PRR MP54s on one side and LIRR ones on the other. This is when I fell in love with trains and the PRR. Bravo BLI. I slept with a smile on my face last night ;-) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Alex Charyna wrote: > > Also, I have not been able to get the pantagraphs up yet. There is > probably > > a trick to this and I haven't spent much time at all trying. > > Has anyone gotten the pantographs up? I pulled on them, and actually bent > one of the ends a bit. > If it's any consolation, Eric, those directions ARENT in the manual. > > -alex > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Pete Reinhold" Subject: [PRR] Modeling subjects Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:21:43 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C35755.EC5BC620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elden and List, I'd like to see a write up on weathering PRR hoppers in coal and iron ore service. I'd also welcome information on how the Pennsy handled the placement of reweigh and repack data. Pete Reinhold ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C35755.EC5BC620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Elden and List,

 

   I’d like to see a = write up on weathering PRR hoppers in coal and iron ore service. I’d also = welcome information on how the Pennsy handled the = placement of reweigh and repack data.

 

Pete = Reinhold

 

------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C35755.EC5BC620-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI GG1 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:35:23 -0400 I think I found the secret to raising the pantagraphs. I took a small flat head screw driver and places if between the two metal wires that are around the center post. I then turned the screw driver so that is widest part forces the wires open a little and lifted up at the same time. It worked remarkably well without damaging any parts. Hope this is helpful, Eric --- Eric Lauterbach --- ealauterbach@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. > [Original Message] > From: Andrew S. Miller > To: PRR-Modeling@egroups.com ; PRR FAX ; PRR-Talk Posting ; Alex Charyna > Date: 7/31/03 11:47:52 AM > Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI GG1 > > I got my BLI GG1 last night and spent some time trying to raise the pans. > They do pull straight up. I too was surprised that the instructions say > nothing about this. There are two cross members, visible under the contacts, > which grasp an indentation in the center post. > > I was also very disappointed in the couplers. They are almost as atrocious > looking as the "NMRAs on a stick" which protrude from an AHM passenger car. > The problem seems to be that there is no room under the pilot for an adequate > sized draft gear box, so the centering mechanism is external. This causes the > coupler to stick waaay out and to have what looks like a basketball backboard > behind it. It ruins an otherwise beautiful model. > > > Now for the good news. The model is gorgeous and the sound put me in > heaven. I sat there all night with the engine in idle listening to the > occasional sound of the compressor and the air relief. I could just see > myself as a kid on one of my beloved trips to Penn Station NY. This was the > sound I remember as I stood in awe in the basement of the Baths of Caraculla, > surrounded by G's at head end of a never ending array of beautiful trains: > the clockers, the Congo and the Crescent, the Senator and the Silver Star, > the General and the George Washington, a sea of P70s and the continuous hustle > of PRR MP54s on one side and LIRR ones on the other. This is when I fell in > love with trains and the PRR. Bravo BLI. I slept with a smile on my face > last night ;-) > > Regards, > > Andy Miller > asmiller@mitre.org > > ================================================== > > Alex Charyna wrote: > > > > Also, I have not been able to get the pantagraphs up yet. There is > > probably > > > a trick to this and I haven't spent much time at all trying. > > > > Has anyone gotten the pantographs up? I pulled on them, and actually bent > > one of the ends a bit. > > If it's any consolation, Eric, those directions ARENT in the manual. > > > > -alex > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > -- > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach" Subject: [PRR] BLI Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:50:13 -0400

I ended up calling BLI and they are sending me an instruction book for the GG1. I did ask them a couple question about upcoming releases and here are their answers. The M1a/b is on schedule for release in November. I also asked about the T1 and they stated that they did have a sample, but since this sample is a bit more rough than other samples they probably would not be posting pictures yet. They did say that it will have a diecast boiler and a plastic nose.  Also, the On3 engine will not affect the release of the T1 since the On3 steamer has been planned for some time just unannounced. So the T1 is on schedule!
Eric
 
 
--- Eric Lauterbach
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
 

----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Phil Paskos" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI GG1 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:03:43 -0400 The couplers do leave something to be desired. Kadees? The pantographs are a bit sticky, but I found if you take thumb and forefinger (Fingernails help) under the very center and pull straight up they are fine. For those who have other engines they have put sound units in from other manufacturers, I hope they are as pleased as I am with the quality, variety, and overall operation of this BLI loco. The rest of the industry has a lot of catching up to do. BLI has raised the bar. My main interest these days is my 1" live steam M1a coal burning loco that I run at the Pennsylvania Live Steamers club track in Rahns,PA. Do you think I'm looking forward to BLI's M1a? Phil P > I got my BLI GG1 last night and spent some time trying to raise the pans. > They do pull straight up. I too was surprised that the instructions say > nothing about this. There are two cross members, visible under the contacts, > which grasp an indentation in the center post. > > I was also very disappointed in the couplers. They are almost as atrocious > looking as the "NMRAs on a stick" which protrude from an AHM passenger car. > The problem seems to be that there is no room under the pilot for an adequate > sized draft gear box, so the centering mechanism is external. This causes the > coupler to stick waaay out and to have what looks like a basketball backboard > behind it. It ruins an otherwise beautiful model. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:02:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-Modeling] PRR (PRR MODELING) Plans, photos, how-to conversions of early 4-4-0's, especially PCC&St.L. locomotives. Ron Di Orio __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] Alco Centuries from Atlas! Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:11:15 +0000 They also will paint and letter it correctly. I think that Atlas, in terms of the correct paint color and lettering type, is the most accurate for locomotives. They did a great job on the PRR SD-35's and likewise on the correct shade of blue for their Conrail units. I personally would rank the 5 major model locomotive builders (quality of paint and lettering): 1. Altas 2. Athearn Genesis (close second or even a tie for 1st) 3. Athearn R-T-R 4. Lifelike P2K 5. Kato 6. Stewart my 2 cents worth... Ted >From: Derrick J Brashear >To: PRR-Talk LIST >Subject: Re: [PRR] Alco Centuries from Atlas! >Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:02:59 -0400 (EDT) > >On Thu, 31 Jul 2003, Jerry Britton wrote: > > > In HO scale, the C424/5. No Pennsy in the first run, but Undecorated is > > available. The 424 would be Pennsy class AF24a, first acquired in 1963. > > The 425 would be Pennsy class AF25, first acquired in 1964. > >They already did these, I haven't looked but I'd guess it's the usual >Atlas Classic deal, they'll clean it up a bit and put it on their current >mechanism. > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:12:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Alco Centuries from Atlas! On Thu, 31 Jul 2003, Ted Andrews wrote: > I personally would rank the 5 major model locomotive builders (quality of > paint and lettering): > > 1. Altas > 2. Athearn Genesis (close second or even a tie for 1st) > 3. Athearn R-T-R > 4. Lifelike P2K > 5. Kato > 6. Stewart Kato with the too green locomotives and wrong front for numbers on cabs? Ahead of Stewart? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] Alco Centuries from Atlas! Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:45:21 +0000 Tough call between Kato and Stewart. It could be reversed. Kato historically has been known for excellent drives and detail. But their paint jobs (correct color and finish) and lettering accuracy, Kato has allot to be desired. Stewart, I think is a little better in correct color shades but the quality of the lettering, using the latest example of the U25B, has been dissapointing. But, perhaps you are right that Stewart needs to be put ahead of Kato. Ted >From: Derrick J Brashear >To: prr-talk@dsop.com >Subject: Re: [PRR] Alco Centuries from Atlas! >Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:12:48 -0400 (EDT) > >On Thu, 31 Jul 2003, Ted Andrews wrote: > > > I personally would rank the 5 major model locomotive builders (quality >of > > paint and lettering): > > > > 1. Altas > > 2. Athearn Genesis (close second or even a tie for 1st) > > 3. Athearn R-T-R > > 4. Lifelike P2K > > 5. Kato > > 6. Stewart > >Kato with the too green locomotives and wrong front for numbers on cabs? >Ahead of Stewart? > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Keystone Online vs. Keystone on CDs Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:57:21 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C35784.CF53C8A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was surprised that I did not get more feedback from my July 28, 2003 message to the group - "PRRT&HS Keystone Online - Demo is up!" Perhaps there are many list subscribers on vacation or many who are just not interested in using such a tool. At any rate thanx to those of you who did respond. We got some interesting comments and feedback all of which were forwarded to the Society's proposed vendor for his review. One specific comment that surfaced in several of the feedback messages and has been the subject of previous discussions, going back probably three or more years, is putting "The Keystone" on CDs as an alternative to putting them online as specified in the previous proposal. The Society is now considering the alternative of putting "The Keystone" out as CDs rather than as an online subscription service. This would allow us to use a higher resolution than would be made available online. Depending on the amount of data we could put on a CD, they would probably be offered in multi-year sets, with perhaps one or two CDs per set. There would be a search function but it would not be as sophisticated as would be available using the special Keystone online search functions. The question put before the group now is - Would you be more interested in having CDs or having the data available online for an annual subscription fee? .Please respond to abbuchan1@comcast.net Thanx. Al ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C35784.CF53C8A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
I was surprised = that I did=20 not get more feedback from my July 28, 2003 message to the group - = "PRRT&HS=20 Keystone Online - Demo is up!"
 
Perhaps there = are many list=20 subscribers on vacation or many who are just not interested in = using such a=20 tool. At any rate thanx to those of you who did respond. We got some = interesting=20 comments and feedback all of which were forwarded to the Society's = proposed=20 vendor for his review.
 
One specific = comment that=20 surfaced in several of the feedback messages and has been the subject of = previous discussions, going back probably three or more years, is = putting "The=20 Keystone" on CDs as an alternative to putting them online as specified = in the=20 previous proposal.
 
The Society is=20 now considering the alternative of putting "The Keystone" = out as=20 CDs rather than as an online subscription service. This would allow = us to=20 use a higher resolution than would be made available online. Depending = on the=20 amount of data we could put on a CD, they would probably be offered in=20 multi-year sets, with perhaps one or two CDs per set. There would be a = search=20 function but it would not be as sophisticated as would be available = using=20 the special Keystone online search functions.
 
The = question put=20 before the group now is -
 
Would you be = more=20 interested in having CDs or having the data available online for an = annual=20 subscription fee? 
 
.Please respond = to abbuchan1@comcast.net
 
Thanx.
 
Al
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C35784.CF53C8A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR (PRR MODELING) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:32:48 -0400 Hear! Hear! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Vastano" To: ; Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 10:32 AM Subject: [PRR] PRR (PRR MODELING) > Eldon, > > I would liket o see some sort of artile on remotoring and or regearing > either brass or Bowser. I have wanted to swap out motors and do NWSL gear > box but have always been timid to get too far into it and not be able to get > it complete. I think that would be a good topic. > > Sam Vastano > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:57:21 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRRT&HS Keystone Online vs. Keystone on CDs I was surprised that I did not get more feedback from my July 28, 2003 message to the group - "PRRT&HS Keystone Online - Demo is up!" Perhaps there are many list subscribers on vacation or many who are just not interested in using such a tool. At any rate thanx to those of you who did respond. We got some interesting comments and feedback all of which were forwarded to the Society's proposed vendor for his review. One specific comment that surfaced in several of the feedback messages and has been the subject of previous discussions, going back probably three or more years, is putting "The Keystone" on CDs as an alternative to putting them online as specified in the previous proposal. The Society is now considering the alternative of putting "The Keystone" out as CDs rather than as an online subscription service. This would allow us to use a higher resolution than would be made available online. Depending on the amount of data we could put on a CD, they would probably be offered in multi-year sets, with perhaps one or two CDs per set. There would be a search function but it would not be as sophisticated as would be available using the special Keystone online search functions. The question put before the group now is - Would you be more interested in having CDs or having the data available online for an annual subscription fee? .Please respond to abbuchan1@comcast.net Thanx. Al [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:50:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Alco Centuries from Atlas! Of all the Alco Centuries to chose from, Atlas would choose a model that has already been offered before in HO. It seems like the entire EMD catalog has been done in (plastic) HO but when it comes to GE U-Boats and Alcos, there is hardly anyhing to choose from unless you buy brass. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:40:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Alco Centuries from Atlas! On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 zootowerprr@webtv.net wrote: > > Of all the Alco Centuries to chose from, Atlas would choose a > model that has already been offered before in HO. It seems like the Sure, done before *by Atlas*. They're both Atlas Classic models, meaning it's entirely the fact that they were done before that means we can have them again. > entire EMD catalog has been done in (plastic) HO but when it comes to GE > U-Boats and Alcos, [Xe is hardly anyhing to choose from unless you buy > brass. Well, Atlas did just announce the U30C, didn't they? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:51:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Alco Centuries from Atlas! Yes Derrick, Atlas did announce the U30C in HO. At first I was excited till I found out that it's not the "Pennsy correct" version. Maybe I've become a PRR rivet counter. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 22:10:22 -0400 From: Ken Meyer Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI GG1 --------------090505060006050106060606 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To get the pan to raise I used a small screw driver (.100 inch wide) to spread the thin bars that hold the pan down which is secured over a rounded head. If that make sense. Ken Alex Charyna wrote: >>Also, I have not been able to get the pantagraphs up yet. There is >> >> >probably > > >>a trick to this and I haven't spent much time at all trying. >> >> > >Has anyone gotten the pantographs up? I pulled on them, and actually bent >one of the ends a bit. >If it's any consolation, Eri[Xhose directions ARENT in the manual. > >-alex > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > --------------090505060006050106060606 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To get the pan to raise I used a small screw driver (.100 inch wide) to spread the thin bars that hold the pan down which is secured over a rounded head. If that make sense.
Ken

Alex Charyna wrote:
Also, I have not been able to get the pantagraphs up yet. There is
    
probably
  
a trick to this and I haven't spent much time at all trying.
    

Has anyone gotten the pantographs up?  I pulled on them, and actually bent
one of the ends a bit.
If it's any consolation, Eric, those directions ARENT in the manual.

-alex



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--------------090505060006050106060606-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!!