Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 08:16:03 -0500
From: "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers 4-4-2 Prewar Pullman Model

Chris wrote

>I was at my local hobby shop this past weekend struggling with whether or
>not to purchase the Walthers 4-4-2 sleeper. 
<snip>Since Walthers has obviously made this model in a skirted version,
and since they describe the PRR paint scheme they use as the "Late Scheme"
has anyone discovered whether Walthers intends to do an "Early Scheme" of
the Pennsy 4-4-2 with the FOM colors and the side skirts?  If not I guess
I'll have to tackle a conversion on the UP version of the model....

Chris, I know that you are not the first to ask this question and that
Walthers is aware of the potential.  Bill Wischer of Walthers is the guy to
contact to make your desires known.  They may be trying to size up how many
units they can sell, or they may just not have the capacity yet (to busy
turning out those UP cars), or they may not have the data they need
(although I'm pretty sure one of our listers has offered it to them)

Happy Rails
Bruce



Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
                           __
                          /  \
  __<+--+>________________\__/___   ____________________________________
 |- ______/ O        O \_______ -| | __  __  __  __  __  __  __  __  __ |
 | / 4999  PENNSYLVANIA   4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
 |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________|
 | O--O     \0  0  0  0/    O--O |   0-0-0                        0-0-0



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From: ndbprr@att.net
Subject: [PRR] Metra update
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 13:38:27 +0000

The Metra bridge that burned last weekend is back in service one day earlier 
than anticipated.  They had already installed a concrete pier anticipating 
replacement laster in the year so it was just a case of removing the debris and 
installing the new bridge (130' long divided about 1/3 and 2/3 in length over 
the pier).  IC/CN has not done anything with their 4 tracks yet and they remain 
out of service.  Woodcrest yard in Homewood Illinois is as dead as it gets.  It 
appears most traffic is bypassing the area excpet for that headed for the IHB 
or GTW. It is speculation on my part but they may have stayed out of the way 
while Metra got the commuter line back up and will now get started.  The cost 
to Metar was in excess of $1,000,000.

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From: John Frantz <johnf2384@suscom.net>
Subject: [PRR] DS-4-4-660 vs. DS-4-4-750
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 11:58:25 -0400

List dudes,

I was flipping the The Pennsy Diesel Years, A-6 to EF-36 
and was cheking engine rosters. Mentioned and rosterized 
are the DS-4-4-660 and DS-4-4-750. Was there any major 
difference besides horsepower, tractive effort, etc. Were 
the bodies the same? If so, this would be good to do a 
repaint of a Stewart engine. 4 such engines were based out 
of York. <VBG> Thanks for anybodies help.

-John

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Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 15:39:17 -0400
From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers 4-4-2 Prewar Pullman Model

Chris, Andy,Bruce and all... 

Bruce Replies with...
> Chris, I know that you are not the first to ask this question and that Walthers is aware of the potential.  Bill Wischer of Walthers is the guy to contact to make your desires known.  They may be trying to size up how many units they can sell, or they may just not have the capacity yet (to busy turning out those UP cars), or they may not have the data they need (although I'm pretty sure one of our listers has offered it to them)
> 
> Happy Rails<

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Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 15:47:41 -0400
From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com
Subject: [PRR] OOPPPPSS... Walthers 4-4-2 Prewar Pullman Model

Chris, Andy,Bruce and all... 

Bruce Replies with...
> Chris, I know that you are not the first to ask this question and that Walthers is aware of the potential.  Bill Wischer of Walthers is the guy to contact to make your desires known.  They may be trying to size up how many units they can sell, or they may just not have the capacity yet (to busy turning out those UP cars), or they may not have the data they need (although I'm pretty sure one of our listers has offered it to them)
> 
> Happy Rails<

What I had intended on saying before I hit the send button was... If you call Bill he will think that I have put you up to it and in this case I would love to take credit for it but it was Bruce's idea. Boyh Bruce and I have put the bug in Bill's ear at Cocoa Beach and he just gave us a chuckle which means he will or he has already thought of that... I would believe that you will see this in FOM but it may take a bit of time as they don't have the artwork in China for the FOM, but they do have the drawings, I gave them a set. So if you can wait and it may very well be a while, then hold off, but if you are like me I am going to start with an undecorated and work from that. My ear doesn't allow for many if any actually, but I like it... and I model to please me. Just might look great leading CARYL around the layout. 3^)

Greg Martin 

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From: "Harry Fitch" <prrk4s@msn.com>
Subject: [PRR] Items for sale - HO scale only.
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 16:59:26 -0400

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Dear List Members:

In accordance to list rules pertaining to the first day of the month, I am
making items available for sale to list members.
I have a number of items that I am thinning from the herd.  They include
both brass and non-brass items.
I am NOT a dealer these are from my own collection.

Kato SD45 (DCC equipped, PRR EF36, #6200) 1 of 2
Kato SD45 (DCC equipped, PRR EF36, #6200) 2 of 2
Gem-Olympia Brass PRR F3c 2-6-0
Gem-Olympia Brass PRR E6s 4-4-2
Akane Brass C&O H-8, 2-6-6-6
NJCB-Daiyoung Brass C&O T-1, 2-10-4
PFM-Atlas Brass C&O H-6, 2-6-6-2

Please E-mail me OFF LIST for details.

Thanks,

Harry

prrk4s@msn.com

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D060594615-17062003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D200084720-01072003>Dear List Members:</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D060594615-17062003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D200084720-01072003></SPAN></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D060594615-17062003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D200084720-01072003>In accordance to list rules pertaining to the =
first day=20
of the month, I am making items available for sale to list=20
members.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D060594615-17062003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D200084720-01072003>I have a number of items that I am thinning =
from the=20
herd.&nbsp; They include both brass and non-brass=20
items.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D060594615-17062003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D200084720-01072003>I am NOT a dealer these are from my own=20
collection.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D060594615-17062003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D200084720-01072003></SPAN></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D060594615-17062003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D200084720-01072003>Kato SD45 (DCC equipped, PRR EF36, #6200) 1 =
of=20
2<BR>Kato SD45 (DCC equipped, PRR EF36, #6200) 2 of 2<BR>Gem-Olympia =
Brass PRR=20
F3c 2-6-0<BR>Gem-Olympia Brass PRR E6s 4-4-2<BR>Akane Brass C&amp;O H-8, =

2-6-6-6<BR>NJCB-Daiyoung Brass C&amp;O T-1, 2-10-4<BR>PFM-Atlas Brass =
C&amp;O=20
H-6, 2-6-6-2</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D060594615-17062003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D200084720-01072003></SPAN></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D060594615-17062003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D200084720-01072003>Please E-mail me OFF LIST for=20
details.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D060594615-17062003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D200084720-01072003></SPAN></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D060594615-17062003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D200084720-01072003>Thanks,</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D060594615-17062003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D200084720-01072003></SPAN></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D060594615-17062003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D200084720-01072003>Harry</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D060594615-17062003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D200084720-01072003></SPAN></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D060594615-17062003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:prrk4s@msn.com">prrk4s@msn.com</A>=20
</FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 22:27:18 -0400
From: Owen Thorne <owen@UDel.Edu>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Re:BLI M1a/b

Group-
  I agree with Eric on this point - it never hurts to ask. If model
manufacturers want to sell more products then they first need to know
what we will buy. Molded on details must be removed before redetailing
and paintjobs are often sacrificed in the effort. If the piping in
question were either molded oversized and attached as separate parts or
left off entirely, then each customer can choose his or her own level of
detail without having to scrape and sand off the molded on details such
as have haunted steam locomotive detailers throughout plastic scale
modeling history. I doubt either option would affect the overall cost of
tooling greatly and I believe that many more modelers would invest if
major surgery could be avoided on a brand-new several-hundred-dollar
purchase. 
  Along a similar line of discussion - while I admire Bowser's efforts
at building and marketing PRR prototypes, I have always been frustrated
by the molded-on detailing of the plastic cabins and freight cars they
offer. It is encouraging to read that the new N8 will not have those
shortcomings and I hope it proves a success for Bowser. I agree with
some earlier comments that a perfect paint and lettering job would be
expected on a $30.00 cabin car model. Any news on optional trainphone
antenna or whether the detailing will be as-built or modernized?
  Thanks to all those who have helped the manufacturers with accuracy on
these and so many other fine models.
Owen Thorne, PRRTHS#2461  

Eric Lauterbach wrote:
> 
> I am not really complaining. I am very happy that BLI is making this
> engine, as it is my favorite Pennsy engine. I also think it is a pretty
> good deal, especially considering it has sound and what looks to be an
> awesome tender. I just wish that they would give us a few more separate
> details above the running boards. Their Hudson even has more separate
> details above the running boards. I am still getting one, this hasn't put
> me off. I will probably end up with two. I just figure that it could never
> hurt to ask. Plus, BLI seems pretty responsive to customer feed back.
> Eric
> 
> --- Eric Lauterbach
> --- ealauterbach@earthlink.net
> --- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
> 
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From: SUVCWORR@aol.com
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 23:27:56 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] DS-4-4-660 vs. DS-4-4-750


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John,

The DS 4-4-750 is closer in body style to the DS 4-4-1000 than the DS 
4-4-660.  The 750 has the same body vent configuration as the 1000 and the same turbo 
charge bulge.  However and I don't have my drawing in front of me, I think 
the 750 is the same length as the 660 which is shorter than the 1000.  Also, the 
660 is a cast frame and I think the 750 is either a fabricated frame or 
combination of cast and fabricated.  Check your Dad's copy of Pennsy Power II pages 
208 and 209.

Check Stewart Hobbies website for the differences among the Baldwin switchers 
which Steve has done so far   <A HREF="www.stewarthobbies.com">www.stewarthobbies.com</A>  from the home page 
select the VO 660 and then look for the comparison drawings link.

Rich Orr

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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">John,<BR>
<BR>
The DS 4-4-750 is closer in body style to the DS 4-4-1000 than the DS 4-4-66=
0.&nbsp; The 750 has the same body vent configuration as the 1000 and the sa=
me turbo charge bulge.&nbsp; However and I don't have my drawing in front of=
 me, I think the 750 is the same length as the 660 which is shorter than the=
 1000.&nbsp; Also, the 660 is a cast frame and I think the 750 is either a f=
abricated frame or combination of cast and fabricated.&nbsp; Check your Dad'=
s copy of Pennsy Power II pages 208 and 209.<BR>
<BR>
Check Stewart Hobbies website for the differences among the Baldwin switcher=
s which Steve has done so far&nbsp;&nbsp; <A HREF=3D"www.stewarthobbies.com"=
>www.stewarthobbies.com</A>&nbsp; from the home page select the VO 660 and t=
hen look for the comparison drawings link.<BR>
<BR>
Rich Orr</FONT></HTML>

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From: "Bill Lane" <billlane@comcast.net>
Subject: [PRR] Just when you thought you have seen everything!
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:32:23 -0400

Hi All,

I give you the following photo.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/F22_flat.jpg I never thought I would
see a F22 and Shay in the same photo!

Enjoy!
Bill


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From: bbreynolds@aol.com
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:54:22 EDT
Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] Just when you thought you have seen everything!

In a message dated 7/2/2003 8:39:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
billlane@comcast.net writes:


>  

Is that shot from the book The Railroad that Lighted Southern California?

Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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From: BBReynolds@aol.com
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:54:22 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] Just when you thought you have seen everything!


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In a message dated 7/2/2003 8:39:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
billlane@comcast.net writes:


>  

Is that shot from the book The Railroad that Lighted Southern California?

Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA

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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2>In a message dated 7/2/20=
03 8:39:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, billlane@comcast.net writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-=
LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">http://mywebpages.comcast.n=
et/billlane/F22_flat.jpg</BLOCKQUOTE> </FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=
=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">
<BR>
<BR>Is that shot from the book <I>The Railroad that Lighted Southern Califor=
nia?</I>
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Ar=
ial" LANG=3D"0">Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA</=
FONT></HTML>

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From: "Bill Lane" <billlane@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:32:23 -0400
Subject: [PRR-FAX] Just when you thought you have seen everything!

Hi All,

I give you the following photo.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/F22_flat.jpg I never thought I would
see a F22 and Shay in the same photo!

Enjoy!
Bill



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Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 22:38:50 -0400
From: Jeff Warner <jeff@pennsyrr.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI Class A


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Eric:

Did you really mean to say this is worse than a Bachmann in detail, or 
did you mean the Life-Like Heritage?  That's a pretty big gap in my 
opinion (with the Heritage far in the lead beyond the Bachmann)...

Jeff

Eric Lauterbach wrote:

> I just got my BLI Class A and thought I would give a short review on 
> the overall qualities of the engine, since BLI is releasing so many 
> Pennsy engines in the near future. 1218 used to come through Atlanta 
> during the days of the NS steam program, which caused this Pennsy fan 
> to become a big fan of her. She appears to be very accurate in 
> dimensions and paint scheme. They did a very good job in getting the 
> red/orange right for the windows. She runs very well and pulls 18 
> hoppers on my layout with no problems what so ever. No derailments and 
> no issues with getting electricity on switches or any of the other 
> usual problems we sometimes see in plastic steam. The sound is 
> excellent and captures the whistle very well. The sound starts up 
> nicely, but is a little too loud which is easily fixed.
> As far as her detail level goes and construction, I do have a few 
> issues. I understand that not every pipe can be a separate detail, but 
> there is a major pipe just behind the front sand dome. The pipe is 
> molded in and takes away from the over all appearance. The pipe is not 
> molded in on the Life-Like Y3. A similar pipe was a separate detail on 
> the Hudson. Also, I was disappointed in the use of plastic for the 
> hand rails, particularly on the pilot.  It makes me wonder if these 
> parts can handle the general wear and tear.
> Over all, I would say this engine comes in a little behind the 
> Bachmann engine in detail. However, the sound and generally good 
> running qualities of this engine, make her a pretty good deal at 
> around $400.  I would give her a letter grade of B+.
> Eric
>  
>  
> --- Eric Lauterbach
> --- ealauterbach@earthlink.net <mailto:ealauterbach@earthlink.net>
> --- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
>  
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 
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--------------080001050607060202030901
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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
  <title></title>
</head>
<body>
Eric:<br>
<br>
Did you really mean to say this is worse than a Bachmann in detail, or did
you mean the Life-Like Heritage? &nbsp;That's a pretty big gap in my opinion (with
the Heritage far in the lead beyond the Bachmann)...<br>
<br>
Jeff<br>
<br>
Eric Lauterbach wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid410-2200375421617810@earthlink.net"> 
  <meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1251"
 http-equiv="Content-Type">
 
  <meta content="MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name="GENERATOR">
 
  <p><font face="MS Sans Serif" size="2"> 
  <div>I just got my BLI Class A and thought I would give a short review
on the overall qualities of the engine, since BLI is releasing so many Pennsy
engines in the near future. 1218 used to come through Atlanta during the
days of the NS steam program, which caused this Pennsy fan to become a big
fan of her. She appears to be very accurate in dimensions and paint scheme.
They did a very good job in getting the red/orange right for the windows.
She runs very well and pulls 18 hoppers on my layout with no problems what
so ever. No derailments and no issues with getting electricity on switches
or any of the other usual problems we sometimes see in plastic steam. The
sound is excellent and captures the whistle very well. The sound starts up
nicely, but is a little too loud which is easily fixed. </div>
 
  <div>As far as her detail level goes and construction, I do have a few
issues. I understand that not every pipe can be a separate detail, but there
is a major pipe just behind the front sand dome. The pipe is molded in and
takes away from the over all appearance. The pipe is not molded in on the
Life-Like Y3. A similar pipe was a separate detail on the Hudson. Also, I
was disappointed in the use of plastic for the hand rails, particularly on
the pilot.&nbsp; It makes me wonder if these parts can handle the general wear
and tear. </div>
 
  <div>Over all, I would say this engine comes in a little behind the Bachmann
engine in detail. However, the sound and generally good running qualities
of this engine, make her a pretty good deal at around $400.&nbsp; I would give
her a letter grade of B+. </div>
 
  <div>Eric</div>
 
  <div>&nbsp;</div>
 
  <div>&nbsp;</div>
 
  <div>--- Eric Lauterbach</div>
 
  <div>--- <a href="mailto:ealauterbach@earthlink.net">ealauterbach@earthlink.net</a></div>
 
  <div>--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.</div>
 
  <div>&nbsp;</div>
  </font> </p>
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From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 21:31:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PRR] MP229 Help

List,

    Need to know something from a circa 1955ish MP-229. Was B6sb 3233
still assigned to the Pgh Div? If no, then where? Also, any B6sb's still
rostered in Columbus? If so, what #'s?.....Thanks, Gary 





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Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 20:22:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Sawicki <casawicki2@yahoo.com>
Subject: [PRR] PRR structure colors

--0-2084837897-1057461733=:73263
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

List- can anybody tell me the names of the PRR structure colors each used on the J Tower in Strasburg and the New Freedom Station?? 
 
J tower is at http://prr.railfan.net/photos/teabow/StrasburgRR_JTower_front34_RayThibaut.jpg from Rob's site
 
New Freedom Station is at  http://prrths-ncc.pennsyrr.com/ from the PRRT&HS NC chapter.
 
They appear different. There was some discussion last week referring to the light and dark structure colors. Thanks. Chris Sawicki


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--0-2084837897-1057461733=:73263
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<DIV>List-&nbsp;can&nbsp;anybody tell me the names of the PRR structure colors each used on the J&nbsp;Tower in Strasburg and the New Freedom Station?? </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>J tower is at <A href="http://prr.railfan.net/photos/teabow/StrasburgRR_JTower_front34_RayThibaut.jpg">http://prr.railfan.net/photos/teabow/StrasburgRR_JTower_front34_RayThibaut.jpg</A>&nbsp;from Rob's site</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>New Freedom Station is at &nbsp;<A href="http://prrths-ncc.pennsyrr.com/">http://prrths-ncc.pennsyrr.com/</A>&nbsp;from the PRRT&amp;HS NC chapter.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>They appear different. There was some discussion last week referring to the light and dark structure colors. Thanks. Chris Sawicki</DIV><p><hr SIZE=1>
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From: "Claus Schlund" <schlund@cwnet.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 20:45:12 -0700
Subject: [PRR] Pennsy J or Lemo Tower design

Hi list members,

List member Doug Nelson recently noticed (and pointed out to
me) the following item...

A company doing business as Model Tech Studios
is selling a kit for a "Ornate Signal tower inspired by
the Pennsy J or Lemo Tower design".

It is available in both N and HO scales.
See URL below.

http://mts.inline.net/merchant.ihtml?id=1&step=2=

Any feedback from anyone out there?
Quality? How close is this to Lemo?
Is the company good to deal with? Etc.

  -  Claus


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From: Chris Sawicki <casawicki2@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 20:22:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR structure colors

List- can anybody tell me the names of the PRR structure colors each used on the J Tower in Strasburg and the New Freedom Station?? 
 
J tower is at http://prr.railfan.net/photos/teabow/StrasburgRR_JTower_front34_RayThibaut.jpg from Rob's site
 
New Freedom Station is at  http://prrths-ncc.pennsyrr.com/ from the PRRT&HS NC chapter.
 
They appear different. There was some discussion last week referring to the light and dark structure colors. Thanks. Chris Sawicki


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From: "Al Buchan" <abbuchan1@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR structure colors
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 06:33:15 -0400

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C34388.7B0B0980
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

"J" tower at Strasburg appears to be painted:
 
"Light Building Paint" with "Dark Building Paint" trim, with Maroon
sash. The roof is an oxide red and the block station sign is "Toludine
Red" with what appears to be "Synthetic Buff Lettering Color Enamel,"
although it could be imitation gold leaf - I can't discern from the
photo and forget from actually looking at it.
 
Al




------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C34388.7B0B0980
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<TITLE>Message</TITLE>

<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2726.2500" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D606282710-06072003><FONT face=3DArial>"J" tower at =
Strasburg=20
appears to be painted:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D606282710-06072003><FONT =
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D606282710-06072003><FONT face=3DArial>"Light Building =
Paint" with=20
"Dark Building Paint" trim, with Maroon sash. The roof is an oxide red =
and the=20
block station sign is "Toludine Red" with what appears to be "Synthetic =
Buff=20
Lettering Color Enamel," although it could be imitation gold leaf - I =
can't=20
discern from the photo and forget from actually looking at=20
it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D606282710-06072003><FONT =
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D606282710-06072003><FONT =
face=3DArial>Al</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C34388.7B0B0980--



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From: "Al Buchan" <abbuchan1@comcast.net>
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 06:33:15 -0400
Subject: [PRR-FAX] RE: [PRR] PRR structure colors

"J" tower at Strasburg appears to be painted:
 
"Light Building Paint" with "Dark Building Paint" trim, with Maroon
sash. The roof is an oxide red and the block station sign is "Toludine
Red" with what appears to be "Synthetic Buff Lettering Color Enamel,"
although it could be imitation gold leaf - I can't discern from the
photo and forget from actually looking at it.
 
Al





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From: "parkvarieties" <parkvarieties@provide.net>
Subject: [PRR] New R50B Paint Schemes
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 08:00:57 -0400

I notice that Walthers has announced three new paint schemes for the
R50B which they call 1) 1939 paint scheme; 2) 1943-44 Tuscan paint scheme;
3) 1954 paint scheme no REA logo.

Can those of you working with Walthers elaborate on the first two
versions - is 1939 scheme FOM lettering??

Frank Brua


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From: "Bill Lane" <billlane@comcast.net>
Subject: [PRR] B6sb 3233
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 08:01:34 -0400

Gary & List,

According 4-1-55 MP 255 B6sb was assigned to the Conemaugh division.

Thanks
Bill


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Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 05:40:44 -0700
From: Steven B <paradise@pacbell.net>
Subject: [PRR] Re: MP229 Help

"Gary Mittner" <mittner@webtv.net> wrote:

> PRR-Talk Digest - Sunday, July 6, 2003
>
> List,
>
> Need to know something from a circa 1955ish MP-229. Was B6sb 3233
> still assigned to the Pgh Div? If no, then where? Also, any B6sb's still
> rostered in Columbus? If so, what #'s?.....Thanks, Gary 


I get the digest version of the list, so this may be repeating another 
post.  From the 1955 M.P. 229:

B6sb 3233 was not in Pittsburgh. It was one of two in that class 
assigned to the Conemaugh Division, the other was 6361.

Columbus had five B6sb class locomotives assigned: 1345, 4001, 4029, 
4179 and 6391.

Steve Beals
Los Angeles



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From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 09:22:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: MP229 Help

Steve, Bill, List,

    Thanks for the info on the B6sb numbers. All confirm with each
others replys. I also had an email of list that lists #3233 as later
being assigned to the Pgh Region in a 1956 MP229. This was my hunch.

    As for the Colmbus assigned B6sb's. One of these locos  along with
the 3233 is the candidate for my 1:29th B6sb. I am leaning towards a
Columbus assigned loco as it will display better/more correctly with my
"Buckeye" Region N6b.

    The latest on the B6sb, minus the decals:
http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/Im001013.jpg    .....Thanks again,
Gary 





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Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 09:45:09 -0400
Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy J or Lemo Tower design
From: Jerry Britton <jerry@pennsyrr.com>

On 7/5/03 11:45 PM, "Claus Schlund" <schlund@cwnet.com> wrote:

> List member Doug Nelson recently noticed (and pointed out to
> me) the following item...
> 
> A company doing business as Model Tech Studios
> is selling a kit for a "Ornate Signal tower inspired by
> the Pennsy J or Lemo Tower design".
> 
> It is available in both N and HO scales.
> See URL below.
> 
> http://mts.inline.net/merchant.ihtml?id=1&step=2=
> 
> Any feedback from anyone out there?
> Quality? How close is this to Lemo?
> Is the company good to deal with? Etc.

It only remotely resembles LEMO. I grew up near LEMO and consider it, quite
frankly, an insult that they call this tower LEMO.

The first floor isn't detailed right, the windows aren't right, and the
cupola is way oversized.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@pennsyrr.com     Member, PRRT&HS

"Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of
Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana
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From: John Frantz <johnf2384@suscom.net>
Subject: [PRR] PRR structure colors
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 13:10:04 -0400

New Freedom station was painted differently than "J" tower 
altogether. When Bill Knepper, the late head-supervisor 
for the New Freedom Station Project, had the station 
painted they made an educated guess as 5to how the colors 
were in the early 1900's. This doesn't  mean that they are 
correct. That is why the colors are so different.

Hope this helps any.

John

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From: "Bill Lane" <billlane@comcast.net>
Subject: [PRR] box car door latch
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 16:03:01 -0400

Hi All,

Does anyone have a good detail photo of this door latch assembled on a car,
preferably a prototype? This is a Grandt Line On3 plastic sprue that I had
cast into brass. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/doorlatch.jpg

I am only interested in the parts that are for the door latch. Perhaps you
could identify the other parts that appear to be hinges of some kind.

Please reply to billlane@comcast.net

Thanks
Bill


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From: "Al Buchan" <abbuchan1@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR structure colors
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 20:14:38 -0400

Re: New Freedom station was painted differently than "J" tower
altogether. 

The pictures of the New Freedom station certainly substantiate this
statement. From the pictures it appears the station has been painted
"Buff" color. This is not an unusual station color as I have
photographic evidence of its use on the Millersburg freight station.
When I last visited that location in August 1994, it certainly appeared
to me that it was not the "Light Building Paint" color associated with
so many PRR buildings. Even though it had not been painted in almost 34
years the color was a lot brighter and more yellow than the standard
color. And sure enough I found a stenciled plaque on the side of the
building which read,

PAINTED-10-60
2-C-BUFF
1-C-DK.STD.TRIM

M.W. DEPT.



Al



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Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 19:31:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Philip Taylor <drphil59@earthlink.net>
Subject: [PRR] TT/TO Pennsy Mainline in 50's

Is there a Pennsy mainline from the 1950s that was still using timetable/train orders? 

Thanks,

Philip Tayor

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Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 04:25:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Sawicki <casawicki2@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR structure colors

--0-848424296-1057577147=:7464
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Al & John- thanks for your explanations.

Al Buchan <abbuchan1@comcast.net> wrote:Re: New Freedom station was painted differently than "J" tower
altogether. 

The pictures of the New Freedom station certainly substantiate this
statement. From the pictures it appears the station has been painted
"Buff" color. This is not an unusual station color as I have
photographic evidence of its use on the Millersburg freight station.
When I last visited that location in August 1994, it certainly appeared
to me that it was not the "Light Building Paint" color associated with
so many PRR buildings. Even though it had not been painted in almost 34
years the color was a lot brighter and more yellow than the standard
color. And sure enough I found a stenciled plaque on the side of the
building which read,

PAINTED-10-60
2-C-BUFF
1-C-DK.STD.TRIM

M.W. DEPT.



Al



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Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<DIV>Al &amp; John- thanks for your explanations.<BR><BR><B><I>Al Buchan &lt;abbuchan1@comcast.net&gt;</I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid; WIDTH: 100%">Re: New Freedom station was painted differently than "J" tower<BR>altogether. <BR><BR>The pictures of the New Freedom station certainly substantiate this<BR>statement. From the pictures it appears the station has been painted<BR>"Buff" color. This is not an unusual station color as I have<BR>photographic evidence of its use on the Millersburg freight station.<BR>When I last visited that location in August 1994, it certainly appeared<BR>to me that it was not the "Light Building Paint" color associated with<BR>so many PRR buildings. Even though it had not been painted in almost 34<BR>years the color was a lot brighter and more yellow than the standard<BR>color. And sure enough I found a stenciled plaque on the side of the<BR>building which read,<BR><BR>PAINTED-10-60<BR>2-C-BUFF<BR>1-C-DK.STD.TRIM<BR><BR>M.W.
 DEPT.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Al<BR><BR><BR><BR>-----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.</BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><p><hr SIZE=1>
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From: "Al Buchan" <abbuchan1@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: [PRR] TT/TO Pennsy Mainline in 50's
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:24:05 -0400

The PRR had "Mainlines" and "Branch lines" both of which had "Main
Track." The definition of "Main Track" is "A designated track upon which
trains are operated by time-table, train order or both or the use of
which is governed by block signals."

I really don't believe there was any "Mainline" ca. 1950s  that was
using a TTTO only method of operation. Most all "Mainline" track at that
time operated using block signals, usually ABS 251 or 261 territory.
Branch line "Main Track" were typically MBS territories although there
were branches with ABS operations. However, there has recently been some
discussion that the PRR perhaps still had some pure TTTO operations on
some of its branchlines, or segments thereof.

Having said that TTTO was not the Mainline method of operation,
timetables and train orders continued to be used.


Al  



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Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 07:52:53 -0500
From: "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu>
Subject: Re: [PRR] New R50B Paint Schemes

Frank sez:
>I notice that Walthers has announced three new paint schemes for the
>R50B which they call

Based on the dates, here is what I beleive these schemes are:

>1) 1939 paint scheme;

This is not FOM <G> but is lettered in Futura . This scheme dates from
7-13-1939 to 6-13-1941 and has a car cement roof, light Tuscan Red body,
Olive trucks, Olive underbody equipment, Black underframe, Buff lettering
with no edging, Railway Express Agency lettering, 5 5/8" spacing of
numerals, wide spacing of all lettering, no end numbers.

>2) 1943-44 Tuscan paint scheme;

This scheme dates from 9-29-1943 to 9-7-1944 and consists of light Tuscan
Red body, Black roof, Black trucks, Tuscan Red underbody equipment, Tuscan
Red underframe, Block style lettering with round P and S, Buff lettering
with no edging, Railway Express Agency lettering, 5 5/8" spacing of
numerals, wide spacing of all lettering, no end numbers.

>3) 1954 paint scheme no REA logo.

IIRC, this is the standard postwar scheme without REA lettering

Thanks for the heads up that these are the next release Frank!

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
                           __
                          /  \
  __<+--+>________________\__/___   ____________________________________
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 | / 4999  PENNSYLVANIA   4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
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Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:29:12 -0500
From: "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu>
Subject: [PRR] 1965 public timetable question

Morning y'all,

I'm trying to figure out a troop movement that occurred on July 15 1965,
departing New York Penn Station, headed for boot camp in Great Lakes, Ill
in two cars which had been tacked on to the rear of a regularly scheduled
train which departed around 5:30 PM.

What train was this?

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
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From: ndbprr@att.net
Subject: [PRR] BLI GG1 Ad in MR
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 17:56:35 +0000

This is not a criticism per se of their G but the number is for one that didn't 
have the drop coupler pilot yet the pilot is the drop coupler variety like all 
the other versions.  It needs to be renumbered between 4849 and 4939 to be 
correct.  Didn't have any idea how to pass this on to BLI.

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Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:28:44 -0500
From: "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu>
Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI GG1 Ad in MR

Norm says:

>This is not a criticism per se of their G but the number is for one that
>didn't
>have the drop coupler pilot yet the pilot is the drop coupler variety like
>all
>the other versions.  It needs to be renumbered between 4849 and 4939 to be
>correct.  Didn't have any idea how to pass this on to BLI.

Well, It WOULD be a criticism if the released model was numbered 4805 <G>
and a perfectly VALID criticism too...however, when the numbers for
reservations were released, and they listed 4805, I pointed out the error
in their ways, as did a number of others...and if you look at the web page,
they are now listing #4905 for thta model and appropriate nubmers for all
of the others.  BLI seems to be one of those companies that is responsive
to input, at least when the fixes are doable.

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
                           __
                          /  \
  __<+--+>________________\__/___   ____________________________________
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Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 15:32:39 -0500
Subject: [PRR] 1965 troop movement
From: Frederick Ripley <fjr@mchsi.com>

Bruce,

RE your question about a departure from Penn Station around 5:30 PM, July
1965:  the Chicago train with the departure closest to this is No. 49,
the "General", at 5:05 PM.  Seems an unlikely train for troop movements, but
the more workaday trains departed much earlier/later: the "Manhattan
Limited" at 1:30, the "Pennsylvania" Limited" at 9:40.

Hope this helps,

Fred R.


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From: mdimaio@ids.net
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:12:27 -0400
Subject: [PRR] PRR Middle Division for MSTS

I am responding to this note a little late :-)  The Middle Division was 
relased for better or worse on 10 June 2003.  It can be downloaded 
at http://www.avsim.com.  Go to the file Library, go to MSTS 
adventures, and search the term Middle.  You will come up with 10 
files.  Download the manual first to see what you might be getting 
yourself into because the download is massive.   Alternative 
meothods of obtaining the material are listed om the manual.  It 
includes all PRR locos, freight cars, and passanger cars used in the 
activities.  NYC material has to be obtained separately.  Sorry for 
the slight delay because I said the material would be available on 
31 March 2002.   Please read the manual and the install directions 
before attempting an install.  To use you must own MSTS. 


Well the terrain will be available later this week.
On 31 Mar 2002 at 7:10, Charles Whary wrote:

> Mike,
> 
> I just recently obtained a copy of the Microsoft's Train Simulator 
and I'm
> in total awl with it.  If you and your fellow works get this project
> accomplished please let me know I would be interested in 
obtaining o copy.
> Thanks
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On 
Behalf Of Michael
> DiMaio
> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 5:52 AM
> To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
> Subject: [PRR] Big Pennsy project!!!
> 
> 
> I am a fan of Microsoft's Train Simulator. A number of us have
> decided to rebuild the PRR's mainline in PA virtually.  There are
> some going from Pittsburgh to Altoona, and others doing Philly to
> Harrisburg.  Atleast one person is attempting to revbuild the
> mainline from NYC to Philly in this manner.  The PRR line from 
DC
> to Philly is in operation.  I, for better or worse, have taken on the
> route from Harrisburg to Altoona/ Tyrone.  Using 3 dimensional
> cartographical software and USGS topographical maps I have just
> finished recreating in 3 dimensions all the topography of the main
> line from Steelton/Harrisburg to Tyrone/Altoona.  The task of 
laying
> track or setting up a marker file which will tell me or others where 
to
> place the trackage.  To do this I will again rely on USCS maps 
and
> overlays which show the trackage from the air.  I have gone 
through
> what Jerry has available online as far as track maps go.  If any 
one
> has clear maps that are on-line and easy to use, accesss to them
> would be appreciated.  If any one has familiarity with MSTS and 
or
> its route editor, I would sure like some help in laying track.  I will 
be
> uploading the Allegeny Mountains and all of the terrain from 
Altoona
> to Harrisburg at http://www.train-sim.com in the middle of the 
week.,
> if any one is interested in downloading it.  I am only concerned 
with
> thwe path of the Broadway Limited so, for that reason, although
> sidings will be provided,  I do not plan to stray from the mainline.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.
> 
> 



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From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:35:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PRR] Aerotrain,

List,

    Anyone know of published Aerotrain Drawing(s)?  Or, how well the
Varney/Bowser Aerotrain Loco and Cars actually scale out?  Thanks, Gary





Come visit my PRR Pages:  Photos, Models, Historical Items and  Art
Work!

PRR K4s Loco Pics:
http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/

PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.:

http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html

and......

PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models:

http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html


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From: "Gregg Mahlkov" <mahlkov@gtcom.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Aerotrain,
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:28:17 -0400

Gary,

As far as I can recall, the Varney Aerotrain was an accurate scale model
when it was issued. It lacked much detail as far as the trucks went, but
Kemtron at one time issued investment castings for both the power truck and
the single axle trucks on the cars.

I assume Bowsdwer is using the same tooling for the bodies. Don't know what
happened to the Kemtron masters..

Gregg Mahlkov

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Mittner" <mittner@webtv.net>
To: <PRR-Talk@dsop.com>
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 8:35 PM
Subject: [PRR] Aerotrain,


> List,
>
>     Anyone know of published Aerotrain Drawing(s)?  Or, how well the
> Varney/Bowser Aerotrain Loco and Cars actually scale out?  Thanks, Gary
>
>
>
>
>
> Come visit my PRR Pages:  Photos, Models, Historical Items and  Art
> Work!
>
> PRR K4s Loco Pics:
> http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/
>
> PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.:
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html
>
> and......
>
> PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models:
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.
>



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Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:01:09 -0400
Subject: [PRR] InterMountain N Scale 50' Box
From: Jerry Britton <jerry@pennsyrr.com>

FYI: A few months ago InterMountain ran a "not quite right -- but 
close" AAR 50' double door box car in N scale, Circle Keystone, with 
AUTOMOBILES on the side. It is quite an attractive car, actually.

This month they are running the same car in a single door version, 
Shadow Keystone (no AUTOMOBILES). There are 12 road numbers.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF   Member, PRRT&HS   jerry@pennsyrr.com
Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale.
"Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
     http://kc.pennsyrr.com
"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products...
     http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com


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Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:03:34 -0400
Subject: [PRR] Digitrax Signal System
From: Jerry Britton <jerry@pennsyrr.com>

FYI for those of you using Digitrax...their long-awaiting signalling 
system is set to ship in August. Details are not yet available via 
Digitrax web site, but I've received a dealer mailing on it. As soon as 
I digest it, I'll share the info. They specifically point out support 
for Pennsy position light signals!!!
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF   Member, PRRT&HS   jerry@pennsyrr.com
Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale.
"Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
     http://kc.pennsyrr.com
"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products...
     http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com


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From: "pgrace" <pgrace@aspects.net>
Subject: [PRR] NMRA Convention
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:05:33 +0100

Are any listers going to the NMRA convention next week?

Patrick Grace
www.prr.org.uk
www.scanrailsoc.org.uk


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From: "pgrace" <pgrace@aspects.net>
Subject: [PRR] NMRA Convention
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:05:40 +0100

Are any listers going to the NMRA convention next week?

Patrick Grace
www.prr.org.uk
www.scanrailsoc.org.uk


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From: ndbprr@att.net
Subject: Re: [PRR] Aerotrain,
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 13:07:40 +0000

I have no idea about drawings but the two Aerotrains do exist yet.  One is in 
Green Bay at the National RR museum and I believe the other is in St. Louis at 
the National Transportation Museum.  Nothing like a field trip for really 
acurate info.  The one in Green Bay is the one that ran on the PRR.  Norm Bell
> List,
> 
>     Anyone know of published Aerotrain Drawing(s)?  Or, how well the
> Varney/Bowser Aerotrain Loco and Cars actually scale out?  Thanks, Gary
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Come visit my PRR Pages:  Photos, Models, Historical Items and  Art
> Work!
> 
> PRR K4s Loco Pics:
> http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/
> 
> PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.:
> 
> http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html
> 
> and......
> 
> PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models:
> 
> http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.

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From: "Ted Andrews" <Ted_Andrews@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] 1965 troop movement
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:27:09 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Bruce:

According to my CT 355-A form for Warsaw interlocking in Warsaw Indiana, =
train No. 49, The Admiral, went through Warsaw at 5:36 am on July 16. =
There was no mention of a special cars such as troop cars on this train =
or any other train that day. That is not unusual since consist =
information was really not part of operations.=20

At any rate, on July 16, train 49 was pulled by an E-7, No. 5859.

Ted=20
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Frederick Ripley=20
  To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20
  Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 3:32 PM
  Subject: [PRR] 1965 troop movement


  Bruce,

  RE your question about a departure from Penn Station around 5:30 PM, =
July
  1965:  the Chicago train with the departure closest to this is No. 49,
  the "General", at 5:05 PM.  Seems an unlikely train for troop =
movements, but
  the more workaday trains departed much earlier/later: the "Manhattan
  Limited" at 1:30, the "Pennsylvania" Limited" at 9:40.

  Hope this helps,

  Fred R.


  =
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<STYLE></STYLE>

<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY id=3DMailContainerBody=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 10px; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
COLOR: #000000; BORDER-TOP-STYLE: none; PADDING-TOP: 15px; FONT-STYLE: =
normal; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; =
BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; TEXT-DECORATION: none; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: =
none"=20
leftMargin=3D0 topMargin=3D0 acc_role=3D"text" CanvasTabStop=3D"true"=20
name=3D"Compose message area"><?xml:namespace prefix=3D"v" =
/><?xml:namespace prefix=3D"o" />
<DIV>
<DIV>Bruce:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>According to my CT 355-A form for Warsaw interlocking in Warsaw =
Indiana,=20
train No. 49, The Admiral, went through Warsaw at 5:36 am on July 16. =
There was=20
no mention of a special cars such as troop cars on this train or any =
other train=20
that day. That is not unusual since consist information was really not =
part of=20
operations. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>At any rate, on July 16, train 49 was pulled by an E-7, No. =
5859.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Ted </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:fjr@mchsi.com">Frederick Ripley</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com">PRR-Talk@dsop.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, July 07, 2003 =
3:32 PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [PRR] 1965 troop =
movement</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>Bruce,<BR><BR>RE your question about a departure from =
Penn=20
  Station around 5:30 PM, July<BR>1965:&nbsp; the Chicago train with the =

  departure closest to this is No. 49,<BR>the "General", at 5:05 =
PM.&nbsp; Seems=20
  an unlikely train for troop movements, but<BR>the more workaday trains =

  departed much earlier/later: the "Manhattan<BR>Limited" at 1:30, the=20
  "Pennsylvania" Limited" at 9:40.<BR><BR>Hope this helps,<BR><BR>Fred=20
  =
R.<BR><BR><BR>-----------------------------------------------------------=
------------<BR>For=20
  assistance with this list, please visit <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://lists.dsop.com">http://lists.dsop.com</A>.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE=
></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: ndbprr@att.net
Subject: [PRR] Chicago Chapter PRRT&HS meeting
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 14:01:19 +0000

The Chicago Chapter of the PRRT&HS will be meeting Saturday 7/26 at The Pullman 
Visitors Center in Pullman, Illinois.  If you are going to be in the area 
anyone is welcome.  We will meet at 1PM for a tour of the remaining Pullman 
factory buildings.  This will be followed by a presentation on the Panhandle 
lines by Fred Ripley at 2PM.  the meeting will last until about 5PM.  Anyone 
who wants more information or directions can send me an email and I will 
provide you with further details.  Norm Bell

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From: "William Bigler" <wbigler@stny.rr.com>
Subject: [PRR] NMRA Convention/National Train Show
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:05:06 -0400

For those planning to attend the NMRA Convention in Toronto, note that the
latest issue of the NMRA Bulletin announced cancellation of the national
train show.  Too many vendors canceled due to SARS concerns to be able to
put on a first class show.

Bill Bigler
Big Flats NY
Modeling PRR Renovo &
     Williamsport WWII


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Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:36:48 -0500
From: "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu>
Subject: Re: { SPAM 1 }::[PRR] NMRA Convention/National Train Show

>For those planning to attend the NMRA Convention in Toronto, note that the
>latest issue of the NMRA Bulletin announced cancellation of the national
>train show.  Too many vendors canceled due to SARS concerns to be able to
>put on a first class show.

Hey Bill,

This is old news, which is why it is in the Bulletin (last issue of "The
Bulletin" BTW...it will have some new title next month).

When National backed out, the Canadians (Canadiens) decided to go on
without them.  They indicated from day 1 that they would have an alternate
train show.  The following is a news release from NMRA:

June 10, 2003
NMRA/NFR Maple Leaf 2003 Convention
Toronto, Ontario

MAPLE LEAF TRAIN SHOW ANNOUNCED

Organizers of the Maple Leaf 2003 NMRA National Convention in Toronto,
being held from July 13 to July 20, have announced today that the Maple
Leaf Train Show which will run in conjunction with the Convention on
Saturday July 19th and Sunday July 20th will be held at the International
Centre.

The International Centre is one of Toronto's premier Trade Show facilities
and is located just west of the convention hotels.

The Maple Leaf Train Show will provide the short free shuttle service to
the Train Show for convention attendees. Attendees of the Maple Leaf 2003
Convention will have access to the Maple Leaf Train Show as part of their
registration package.

The Maple Leaf Train Show will occupy 100,000sq. ft. of space and will
contain numerous display layouts in all of the major scales.

Vendors who are interested in participating are asked to contact Doug
Jarvis at 905-945-2775, e-mail FAX 905-945-0197 or Frank Steele at
613-378-0309 FAX 613-378-1361. Vendor pricing information will be made
available on contact. Rates are consistent with the normal Toronto market.

Admission prices for the General Public will be:

Adult - $10
Kids under 6 - Free
Kids (age 6 -12) - $4
Seniors	- $8

Train Show hours are:

Saturday: July 19th 10 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Sunday:	July 20th 10 a.m. to 4 p.m.

Convention attendees will find updates on the convention Web Site
http://www.ml2003.com/.


SEE YOU IN TORONTO

JULY 13TH - 20TH

MAPLE LEAF 2003 ORGANIZING COMMITTEE
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
                           __
                          /  \
  __<+--+>________________\__/___   ____________________________________
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From: ndbprr@att.net
Subject: [PRR] backdrops
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:02:27 +0000

OK, I am trying to take the easy way out and not having much success.  I am 
looking for pictures of industrial buildings on the web that I can print out 
and paste onto my backdrop to build depth to my city area.  They are darn near 
impossible to find that are in the correct perspective.  Does anybody know of a 
source for this type of picture?  It needs to be of industrial buildings taken 
from ground level.  Nearly all I have found are from higher elevations.  
Someone could do us modelers a real service by supplying a web page repository 
where individuals could send pictures for other modelers to use.

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Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 14:37:33 -0400
From: Godfrey Hall <lcpgh@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [PRR] NMRA Convention/National Train Show

However, Bill, the host group has put together a train show almost as large -
on their own!!
-godfrey hall

William Bigler wrote:

> For those planning to attend the NMRA Convention in Toronto, note that the
> latest issue of the NMRA Bulletin announced cancellation of the national
> train show.  Too many vendors canceled due to SARS concerns to be able to
> put on a first class show.
>
> Bill Bigler
> Big Flats NY
> Modeling PRR Renovo &
>      Williamsport WWII
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 14:47:09 -0400
From: Godfrey Hall <lcpgh@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [PRR] NMRA Convention

Yes Patrick, I'll be helping in the TH&BHS booth in the SIG room. Please
come and visit.
- godfrey hall

pgrace wrote:

> Are any listers going to the NMRA convention next week?
>
> Patrick Grace
> www.prr.org.uk
> www.scanrailsoc.org.uk
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: "edmund burbage" <leeprrswitchkey@msn.com>
Subject: [PRR] For Bill Bigler in New York state
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 15:01:46 -0400

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Do you ever run across any switch keys? I am looking for a Williamsport =
and North Branch RR key for my collection

Lee Burbage
Ret Rail and Military Man
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1>
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<BODY id=3DMailContainerBody=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 10px; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
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<DIV>Do you ever run across any switch keys? I am looking for a =
Williamsport and=20
North Branch RR key for my collection</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Lee Burbage</DIV>
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From: "Ted Andrews" <ted_andrews@msn.com>
Subject: Warsaw, Ind. Train Movements (was Re: [PRR] 1965 troop movement)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 20:11:11 +0000

Fred:

Thank you for your interest. In regards to Warsaw, I am preparing an 
article(s) for the Keystone. I have the daily trainsheet forms (C-355) for 
Warsaw Tower for every day in 1965 and 10 of the 12 months for 1966. I 
acquired these sheets from a shortage locker on the towers first floor just 
days before it was raised in 1986.

I am in the process of entering data in a Excel spreadsheet and will use it 
as a base for entering the data for sorting and analyzing purposes. I the 
data that I am entering is the following

Date
Direction
Train Number
Engine Number
Time of Arrival
Time of Arrival of adjacent interlocking.

For this data, I will be able to determine the most likely classes of 
engines that pulled trains (by pass/frt or by specific train). I will also 
determine if there was certain engine numbers within a specific class(i.e. 
GP-35)  that appeared on the Fort Wayne with a degree of frequency. One 
limitation of the data is that only the lead unit engine number was written 
down; no information regarding the number of engines in the consist or thier 
numbers was recorded. Still the info. will be insightful.

Other information will be determined such as the average travel speed of 
each train (by pass. / frt. and by specific train (Broadway, Admiral, etc.) 
and how it compared to the timetable month to month.

After a l-o-n-g hiatus, I am beginning to enter in data again and should 
have the months of June and July 1965 entered by the end of the month. I 
will perform an analysis of these months and produce a short article on it. 
I will then make it available to Jerry for his website as well as others on 
PRR-Talk. I would be interested in getting feedback from people such as 
yourself on what information is important to you and how to format it.

It should be an interesting summer. In addition, I am working on my Fort 
Wayne layout in my basement. All track work from Bourbon, Indiana through 
Hamlet is done. I am now working on the Wanatah interlocking. After that, I 
will be laying track eastward from Bourbon to Warsaw, then Columbia City, 
and then finally to Fort Wayne.

In the meantime, if you need and train data from a specific date in 1965 or 
1966, I would be more than happy to furnish it to you.

Ted Andrews


>From: Frederick Ripley <fjr@mchsi.com>
>To: Ted Andrews <Ted_Andrews@msn.com>
>Subject: Re: [PRR] 1965 troop movement
>Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 14:07:55 -0500
>
>Ted,
>
>The form you mention from Warsaw (presumably showing daily train movements)
>intrigues me!  I am modeling Crestline-Ft. Wayne, 1965-67.  I have ETT's
>from these years, showing all the freight schedules, but it would be very
>interesting to me to see
>a daily train sheet or two from some location on the Pittsburgh-Chicago
>main, to see how
>close to their schedules the freights ran, whether there were 2nd sections,
>how many
>extras, etc.
>
>Would it be possible for you to share some of this info?  If xeroxing is
>possible,
>I would be delighted to pay copy costs plus postage.
>
>How is your layout coming?  Was it Warsaw-Valpo, 1950's?
>
>Thanks, Fred R.

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From: John Frantz <johnf2384@suscom.net>
Subject: Re: Warsaw, Ind. Train Movements (was Re: [PRR] 1965 troop
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 17:04:41 -0400

Ted,

You noted that a limitation to the train order is that 
inly the lead engine number was written down. Over time 
once everything is entered it might be easier than you 
think to figure out how many units may have been on a 
consist.

Here is an example to prove my point. Say we have two 
engines that are numbered 1 and 2. Engine one faces 
eastbound and engine 2 faces westbound. And there are two 
cities, say York and Philly. If one a given date: June 
6th, 1965 engine 1 moves a train east from york to philly. 
Then, the next day or two after, number 2 moves a train 
west to york from philly. Then a few days later engine 1 
moves a train east from york to philly. 

This is where the fun can begin. Since engine 1 cannot 
obviously go from york to philly twice without being run 
east there is a point in between the two arrival times 
that engine traveled westbound. There is a varying margin 
of error if you take into account turntables, wyes, etc. 
But, generally the idea can work. 

I hope this sheds a little bit of light into an otherwise 
dark corner.

John

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From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:24:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Warsaw, Ind. Train Movements (was Re: [PRR] 1965

Ted,

     Your Tower Records find reminded me of a book I barrowed from
someone recently. It dates from 1955 thru mid 1964.  It is a log book
from the Pitcarin Enginehouse. In this book the worker would record his
daily activity on each of the Locos that was sent his way for fixing,
usually light repair that could be done at the house or on site. The
worker recorded Times, Trouble reported, Touble found, Loco Numbers,
What was done to fix and when Loco was ready for service again. All
kinds of Power is Listed, Sharks, FM's FA's, F's, E's, Centipedes, etc.
Even found a few J1's and a K4 that needed work. Usually for Hot Boxes.
Here is an example:

9-24-55

Notified by Engineer:  6402--J1 PNE Helper

Trouble Reported:  Extension Rod to Water Pump Disconnected & Right
Front ???? Cock Stuck Open.

Repairs Made: Extension Rod Coupled up at Steam Valve to Water Pump.
Right Front ???? Cock Cleaned Out. 

Engine 6402 J1 arrived at 7:30am left 7:45am

And .....

11-3-55

    5338-K4s, Engine  Dead in Train, West, (for Scrap) 

Right Trailer Hot Bearing. Bobbet milled off

Pitcarin Crew to renew Bearing on #10 Track Derry

Cut out 6 pm, Report R. Akins at 2 PM 11-4-55, Ready to Move.

end samples.....

    Lots of interesting reading, especialy to what the problems were
with the J1's. Past history recorded for life.....Gary





Come visit my PRR Pages:  Photos, Models, Historical Items and  Art
Work!

PRR K4s Loco Pics:
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PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.:

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From: "Ted Andrews" <ted_andrews@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Warsaw, Ind. Train Movements (was Re: [PRR] 1965 troop
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 21:38:21 +0000

John:

Thanks for your email and comments. Your assumptions may be valid since the 
Fort Wayne was relatively flat; the photos that I have seen consist of 2-3 
engines per train. If the engines were held together as a unit, then it made 
be likely to see the opposite end of the engine lashup the following day on 
a train heading in the opposite direction.

The middle units will be hard to determine. Especially the B-units (F-3B's, 
F-7B's, FP-7B's, E-7B's and even GP-9B's). These never were on the point for 
obvious reasons but were there nonetheless. It was common practice for the 
Pennsy to have 3 E-units on its prominent passenger trains. In addition, 
many freight trains had F-3/F-7/GP-9 B-units in the consists and there are 
good photograpghical evidence that this was the case in the mid-'60's

Bill Vollmer, who worked for the Pennsy in Chicago in the early to mid 
-'60's probably could shed some light on this.

Ted


>From: John Frantz <johnf2384@suscom.net>
>To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
>CC: "Ted Andrews" <ted_andrews@msn.com>
>Subject: Re: Warsaw, Ind. Train Movements (was Re: [PRR] 1965 troop 
>movement)
>Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 17:04:41 -0400
>
>Ted,
>
>You noted that a limitation to the train order is that inly the lead engine 
>number was written down. Over time once everything is entered it might be 
>easier than you think to figure out how many units may have been on a 
>consist.
>
>Here is an example to prove my point. Say we have two engines that are 
>numbered 1 and 2. Engine one faces eastbound and engine 2 faces westbound. 
>And there are two cities, say York and Philly. If one a given date: June 
>6th, 1965 engine 1 moves a train east from york to philly. Then, the next 
>day or two after, number 2 moves a train west to york from philly. Then a 
>few days later engine 1 moves a train east from york to philly.
>
>This is where the fun can begin. Since engine 1 cannot obviously go from 
>york to philly twice without being run east there is a point in between the 
>two arrival times that engine traveled westbound. There is a varying margin 
>of error if you take into account turntables, wyes, etc. But, generally the 
>idea can work.
>
>I hope this sheds a little bit of light into an otherwise dark corner.
>
>John
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: ndbprr@att.net
Subject: [PRR] Phildelphia interchanges
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 21:42:27 +0000

I can't recall any Philadlephia interchanges with other roads between Zoo and 
Morris except for the Reading Belmont branch and the PRSL connection at 
Frankford Junction.  Any others?

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From: "Al Buchan" <abbuchan1@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: [PRR] Phildelphia interchanges
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:01:49 -0400

PRR PHL Interchanges ca. 1968

B&O
20th and Wolf Streets
Delaware and Commercial Avenues
Grays Ferry (connection but not used regularly for interchange)

PRSL
Pavonia Junction (NJ)

Reading
North Philadelphia (22nd St)
Delaware Avenue and Noble Street
Grays Ferry
Belmont
Kensington-Richmond Junction
Sears Station

Al



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From: "Bill Lane" <billlane@comcast.net>
Subject: [PRR] moving parts on brass models
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:08:31 -0400

Hi All,

I am just trying to take a little poll on how important moving doors and
opening hatches are for brass freight cars. I have heard "if I am paying
$XXX.XX for a car, those door better open."

The parts needed to make these items move and open actually make the car a
little less accurate, because they have to be out of scale. To me, there is
nothing more aggravating then having doors slide and hatches hanging open
while painting the car. I solder ALL of them shut. There is nothing in there
to see anyway. Then you can scratch up your weathering job too.

How many of you have ever posed a scene loading a car? OK, so that makes 3
of you. Could you have done it with a plastic car? SURE can!

Hit me with your thoughts please!

Thanks
Bill


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From: John Frantz <johnf2384@suscom.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] moving parts on brass models
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 07:28:21 -0400

Bill,

I can readily agree with you when it comes to how 
rediculous moving parts on a piece of brass can be. Dad 
and I were babysitting a new Western Maryland J1 and I was 
looking at it and found out that the sand hatches came off 
with little interior chains. I felt that detail wasn't 
needed.

Personally, when it comes to brass, I close everything up 
and do my experiments in plastic. I only have one 
exception, and that is putting a tailsign and end lights 
on an observation/business car.

Your in railroading,
John

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From: "Pete Reinhold" <preinhol@unidie.com>
Subject: RE: [PRR] moving parts on brass models
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:35:29 -0500

Bill and list,

   I'll keep this short. Accuracy over moving parts in models. The doors
on the prototype were closed most of the time anyway.

Pete Reinhold


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From: "Ted Andrews" <ted_andrews@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Warsaw, Ind. Train Movements (was Re: [PRR] 1965 troop
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:26:26 +0000

Norm:

It would be interesting in how long that combination lasted. It may be true 
from the late '40's to the late '50's but when passenger service began to be 
curtailed and there was a surplus of engines, perhaps three"A" units (as per 
the Cedco calender) were the more typical in the 1960's. Still, it would be 
great to model PB-1's on the Lines West.

One other thought. I believe that only 1 PB-1 was given the broad stripe 
treatment. All others had the 5-stripe scheme. Perhaps that may shead light 
on the frequency of PB-1's use on passenger trains from the late '50's 
onward.

Ted


>From: ndbprr@att.net
>To: "Ted Andrews" <ted_andrews@msn.com>
>Subject: Re: Warsaw, Ind. Train Movements (was Re: [PRR] 1965 troop 
>movement)
>Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:58:18 +0000
>
>Pennsy Power 2 shows the PB's in conjunction with the E7A's in the front
>section on diesels that lists all the stats and numbers.  I missed that 
>fact
>for about 20 years!
> > Thanks for the info Norm! I have that calender in my office and am 
>looking
> > at that picture as I write this.
> >
> > Ted
> >
> >
> > >From: ndbprr@att.net
> > >To: "Ted Andrews" <ted_andrews@msn.com>
> > >Subject: Re: Warsaw, Ind. Train Movements (was Re: [PRR] 1965 troop
> > >movement)
> > >Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 21:54:57 +0000
> > >
> > >Be careful with E7B's.  The PB's were used with the initial E7A's (all 
>5).
> > >Every picture of E7's I have seen show mostly A units.  The July Cedco
> > >calendar
> > >picture shows three A's leaving Chicago with an E7 ABA lash up in the
> > >background.  E7B's may be farely rare - even though I have two of 'em!
> > >Norm
> > >Bell
> > > > John:
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for your email and comments. Your assumptions may be valid 
>since
> > >the
> > > > Fort Wayne was relatively flat; the photos that I have seen consist 
>of
> > >2-3
> > > > engines per train. If the engines were held together as a unit, then 
>it
> > >made
> > > > be likely to see the opposite end of the engine lashup the following 
>day
> > >on
> > > > a train heading in the opposite direction.
> > > >
> > > > The middle units will be hard to determine. Especially the B-units
> > >(F-3B's,
> > > > F-7B's, FP-7B's, E-7B's and even GP-9B's). These never were on the 
>point
> > >for
> > > > obvious reasons but were there nonetheless. It was common practice 
>for
> > >the
> > > > Pennsy to have 3 E-units on its prominent passenger trains. In 
>addition,
> > > > many freight trains had F-3/F-7/GP-9 B-units in the consists and 
>there
> > >are
> > > > good photograpghical evidence that this was the case in the 
>mid-'60's
> > > >
> > > > Bill Vollmer, who worked for the Pennsy in Chicago in the early to 
>mid
> > > > -'60's probably could shed some light on this.
> > > >
> > > > Ted
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: John Frantz <johnf2384@suscom.net>
> > > > >To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
> > > > >CC: "Ted Andrews" <ted_andrews@msn.com>
> > > > >Subject: Re: Warsaw, Ind. Train Movements (was Re: [PRR] 1965 troop
> > > > >movement)
> > > > >Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 17:04:41 -0400
> > > > >
> > > > >Ted,
> > > > >
> > > > >You noted that a limitation to the train order is that inly the 
>lead
> > >engine
> > > > >number was written down. Over time once everything is entered it 
>might
> > >be
> > > > >easier than you think to figure out how many units may have been on 
>a
> > > > >consist.
> > > > >
> > > > >Here is an example to prove my point. Say we have two engines that 
>are
> > > > >numbered 1 and 2. Engine one faces eastbound and engine 2 faces
> > >westbound.
> > > > >And there are two cities, say York and Philly. If one a given date:
> > >June
> > > > >6th, 1965 engine 1 moves a train east from york to philly. Then, 
>the
> > >next
> > > > >day or two after, number 2 moves a train west to york from philly. 
>Then
> > >a
> > > > >few days later engine 1 moves a train east from york to philly.
> > > > >
> > > > >This is where the fun can begin. Since engine 1 cannot obviously go
> > >from
> > > > >york to philly twice without being run east there is a point in 
>between
> > >the
> > > > >two arrival times that engine traveled westbound. There is a 
>varying
> > >margin
> > > > >of error if you take into account turntables, wyes, etc. But, 
>generally
> > >the
> > > > >idea can work.
> > > > >
> > > > >I hope this sheds a little bit of light into an otherwise dark 
>corner.
> > > > >
> > > > >John
> > > > >
> > > > 
> >-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > >
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> > > >
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From: "Hpallesen" <h2pallesen@wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: [PRR] moving parts on brass models
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:48:58 +0200

Bill and list,
I am new on this list, I am a Danish 0-Scale (both 2-rail & stud(3)-rail)
PRR fan building a layout (using ATLAS O's new code 148 2-rail track) in
Reims,France ! Any of you from Europe ???
I like moving parts like Cab-windows on my steam locomotives, so I can have
my friendly engineer saying hallo,I do not need moving parts, I only try a
couple of times and then never use, I hate out of scale details to make them
moving!
I do not like models were numberboards and markerlamps are not illuminated!
I like sound and the possibility to have SYNCRONICED smoke!
I do not like LIONEL couplers and HiRail's unnecessary big flanges (and too
small wheels) etc to make bigger locomotives run on streetcar curves, this
and moving diesel cowcatchers made me sell most of my HiRail !
You are welcome to e-mail me direct h2pallesen@wanadoo.fr !
Regards
Hugo B. Pallesen
Member of NMRA,TCA,PRR T&HS(Phil./Nation.)FREMO,ARGE,GOG,OSK, etc...


----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete Reinhold" <preinhol@unidie.com>
To: "'Steam Era Freight cars'" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>; "'PRR Talk'"
<PRR-Talk@dsop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 2:35 PM
Subject: RE: [PRR] moving parts on brass models


> Bill and list,
>
>    I'll keep this short. Accuracy over moving parts in models. The doors
> on the prototype were closed most of the time anyway.
>
> Pete Reinhold
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: b.hom@att.net
Subject: [PRR] Moving Mail on the MOPAC
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:56:05 +0000

Stumbled onto this while searching for something else - in 1999, the 
TRRA Historical Society ran an issue devoted exclusively to Missouri 
Pacific mail trains - more info is at:

http://trra-hts.railfan.net/issue4950.html

This article might answer some of those questions about MOPAC baggage and 
express cars on the Pennsy.


Ben Hom

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From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" <lmatt@alltel.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] moving parts on brass models
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:59:58 -0400

Friends:

For me, I don't think operating doors for brass or plastic are that
critical.  Cars that operate have the door glued shut, as I would rather see
scale size hardware.  I usually remove the plastic components and make
smaller ones from scratch and glue the door in place, opened or closed.

In the past, I have detailed a string of freight cars on a siding with easy
view from the aisle and modeled scale debris (strapping, brown paper and
lumber blocking etc) with workers, as if the cars were being cleaned out
after unloading.  Very unusual and effective foreground scene.

Lew

"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in
our air and water that are doing it." -- Al Gore, Vice President

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?" --
Lee Iacocca

"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure." -- Bill Clinton,
President

Synergistic Solutions: Alternative, Sustainable Waste Management and Energy
Systems.   Advocating water for life through the integration of sustainable
agriculture,  sustainable toilets,  sustainable gray water systems and
sustainable green construction.

Lewis J. Matt III, Ph.D., C.S.E.O., B.O.C.A.I.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Lane" <billlane@comcast.net>
To: "PRR Modeling" <PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com>; "Steam Era Freight cars"
<STMFC@yahoogroups.com>; "PRR Talk" <PRR-Talk@dsop.com>; "Brass Collectors"
<brasscollectors@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 7:08 AM
Subject: [PRR] moving parts on brass models


> Hi All,
>
> I am just trying to take a little poll on how important moving doors and
> opening hatches are for brass freight cars. I have heard "if I am paying
> $XXX.XX for a car, those door better open."
>
> The parts needed to make these items move and open actually make the car a
> little less accurate, because they have to be out of scale. To me, there
is
> nothing more aggravating then having doors slide and hatches hanging open
> while painting the car. I solder ALL of them shut. There is nothing in
there
> to see anyway. Then you can scratch up your weathering job too.
>
> How many of you have ever posed a scene loading a car? OK, so that makes 3
> of you. Could you have done it with a plastic car? SURE can!
>
> Hit me with your thoughts please!
>
> Thanks
> Bill
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.


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From: ndbprr@att.net
Subject: [PRR] E7's and PB's
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 16:19:00 +0000

Pennsy Power 2 shows a picture of a PB between two E7A's and say's that they 
were used in that manner when the PA's were switched to freight service.  Does 
anybody know for how long and what trains they were used  on?  Was it all 
five?  Did they remain DGLE 5 stripe or were they repainted Tuscan 5 stripe?  
Thanks.

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From: "John Bruce" <j.bruce@gte.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] E7's and PB's
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:46:09 -0700

There was an article on this in Mainline Modeler some time ago.  Some of the
PBs were repainted in tuscan single-stripe, but none of the PAs was.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Volkmer" <bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com>
To: <ndbprr@att.net>; "'PRR-Talk'" <Prr-Talk@dsop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 9:43 AM
Subject: RE: [PRR] E7's and PB's


> In the summer of 1958 they were used that way between Baltimore and
> Harrisburg on 575 and 581.  By 1959 or possibly 1960 they were back in
> coal drag service out of E. Altoona.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of
> ndbprr@att.net
> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 12:19 PM
> To: PRR-Talk
> Subject: [PRR] E7's and PB's
>
>
> Pennsy Power 2 shows a picture of a PB between two E7A's and say's that
> they
> were used in that manner when the PA's were switched to freight service.
> Does
> anybody know for how long and what trains they were used  on?  Was it
> all
> five?  Did they remain DGLE 5 stripe or were they repainted Tuscan 5
> stripe?
> Thanks.
>
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>
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Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain N Scale 50' Box 
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:01:42 -0400
From: Dennis Rockwell <dennis@bbn.com>

On 8 Jul, Jerry Britton wrote:

> FYI: A few months ago InterMountain ran a "not quite right -- but 
> close" AAR 50' double door box car in N scale, Circle Keystone, with 
> AUTOMOBILES on the side. It is quite an attractive car, actually.
> 
> This month they are running the same car in a single door version, 
> Shadow Keystone (no AUTOMOBILES). There are 12 road numbers.

Jerry, is this for August release?  It's not listed in the
July releases on their "new products" page:

	http://www.intermountain-railway.com/new.html

It has long been listed on the "upcoming products" page.

I wonder what the class and dates are on the car?  Most of
the 50' single-door cars have been at least late fifties,
with at least one (without roofwalk) that was much later.

Dennis

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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:14:35 -0400
Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain N Scale 50' Box 
From: Jerry Britton <jerry@pennsyrr.com>

On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 10:01 AM, Dennis Rockwell wrote:

> Jerry, is this for August release?  It's not listed in the
> July releases on their "new products" page:
>
> 	http://www.intermountain-railway.com/new.html

The web page is incorrect. I've already notified them. The web page has 
the car listed, but the webmaster duped New York Central into the road 
name. The dealer memo indicates Pennsy and has a photo of the car. It 
is for July release.
>
> It has long been listed on the "upcoming products" page.

So have a lot of cars! That's about a six month look ahead.
>
> I wonder what the class and dates are on the car?  Most of
> the 50' single-door cars have been at least late fifties,
> with at least one (without roofwalk) that was much later.

I've e-mailed them this question but have not heard back yet. The 
double-door car is a very nice car, but is kind of a combination of 
subclasses and not accurate for any one single subclass. Will be 
interesting to see what they call this car!

-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF   Member, PRRT&HS   jerry@pennsyrr.com
Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale.
"Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
     http://kc.pennsyrr.com
"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products...
     http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com


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Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain N Scale 50' Box 
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:30:13 -0400
From: Dennis Rockwell <dennis@bbn.com>

On 10 Jul, Jerry Britton wrote:

> On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 10:01 AM, Dennis Rockwell wrote:
> 
> > Jerry, is this for August release?  It's not listed in the
> > July releases on their "new products" page:
> >
> > 	http://www.intermountain-railway.com/new.html
> 
> The web page is incorrect. I've already notified them. The web page has 
> the car listed, but the webmaster duped New York Central into the road 
> name. The dealer memo indicates Pennsy and has a photo of the car. It 
> is for July release.

Ah!  There it is.  I do wish that they'd steal a good idea
from Atlas and post the car art when they haven't taken a
photo yet (but they had one for the dealer memo?  Huh?).
The two CB&Q cars are vastly different and about ten years
apart.

Dennis



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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:49:57 -0400
From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [PRR] New R50B Paint Schemes

Bruce replies to Frank...

> Frank sez:
>>I notice that Walthers has announced three new paint schemes for the
>>R50B which they call Based on the dates, here is what I beleive these schemes are:
> 
>>1) 1939 paint scheme;
 
> This is not FOM <G> but is lettered in Futura . This scheme dates from 7-13-1939 to 6-13-1941 and has a car cement roof, light Tuscan Red body, Olive trucks, Olive underbody equipment, Black underframe, Buff lettering with no edging, Railway Express Agency lettering, 5 5/8" spacing of numerals, wide spacing of all lettering, no end numbers.<
> 
>>2) 1943-44 Tuscan paint scheme;
> 
> This scheme dates from 9-29-1943 to 9-7-1944 and consists of light Tuscan
> Red body, Black roof, Black trucks, Tuscan Red underbody equipment, Tuscan
> Red underframe, Block style lettering with round P and S, Buff lettering
> with no edging, Railway Express Agency lettering, 5 5/8" spacing of
> numerals, wide spacing of all lettering, no end numbers.
> 
> >3) 1954 paint scheme no REA logo.
> 
> IIRC, this is the standard postwar scheme without REA lettering
> 
> Thanks for the heads up that these are the next release Frank!
> 
> Happy Rails
> Bruce

Bruce is correct but we are still working on a few issues with Walthers but they should be on track to meet their deadline.

Greg Martin

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From: ndbprr@att.net
Subject: [PRR] Station announcer recordings
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:07:02 +0000

A couple of months ago someone posted a message looking for a copy of the 
recordings made in the late 40's.  I posted that I had them and would be 
willing to copy them to tape but was never contacted with where to send them.  
If the person is still around please contact me off list with the information 
needed to help you.

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From: "Eric Lauterbach" <ealauterbach@earthlink.net>
Subject: [PRR] HO scale passenger cars
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:54:32 -0400

<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=windows-1251" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<P><FONT face="MS Sans Serif" size=2>
<DIV>At one time I had a list of all the plastic HO scale passenger cars that are correct for the Pennsy. Due to a computer error, I have since lost that list. Can anyone tell me&nbsp;which passenger cars, particularly the Walthers, Rivarossi, and IHC cars, are correct for the Pennsy? This would be greatly appreciated.</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>Eric</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>--- Eric Lauterbach</DIV>
<DIV>--- <A href="mailto:ealauterbach@earthlink.net">ealauterbach@earthlink.net</A></DIV>
<DIV>--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT>
<P></P></BODY></HTML>


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From: ndbprr@att.net
Subject: [PRR] N scale baggage cars
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:18:50 +0000


 This is from the Trains.com website.  There is also a picture if the car but 
it wouldn't copy and paste.

 
N scale 

Hell Gate Models offers both Pennsylvania RR class BM70k baggage/Railway Post 
Office and class B60b baggage/express car kits. The baggage/Railway Post Office 
kit features a cast-resin body and underframe, two styles of doors, American 
Limited diaphragms, a brake wheel, etched-brass detail parts, and decals but no 
trucks or couplers. The baggage/express car kit features a cast-resin body and 
underframe, East Wind Manufacturing 2D-P5 trucks, etched-brass detail parts, a 
brake wheel, and decals. Hell Gate Models, P.O. Box 2076, Mill Valley, CA 
94942; www.hellgatemodels.com 

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From: PKMac101@aol.com
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:52:28 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] Phildelphia interchanges


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Norm.
          I think there use to be a connection of the RDG and the PRR at 
Engleside,way back alot of years. That is where Acme use to have a large freezer 
warehouse and Conrail bought it,tore it down and made the new connection from 
the Trenton Line,former RDG that connected to the B&O, up to connect to the 
then Amtrak(ex PRR)"0" track to make a straight move to the Delair Bridge and 
Camden.

Pat McKinney

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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Norm.<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I think there use to=20=
be a connection of the RDG and the PRR at Engleside,way back alot of years.=20=
That is where Acme use to have a large freezer warehouse and Conrail bought=20=
it,tore it down and made the new connection from the Trenton Line,former RDG=
 that connected to the B&amp;O, up to connect to the then Amtrak(ex PRR)"0"=20=
track to make a straight move to the Delair Bridge and Camden.<BR>
<BR>
Pat McKinney</FONT></HTML>

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From: "Al Buchan" <abbuchan1@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: [PRR] Philadelphia interchanges
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 21:45:54 -0400

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="US-ASCII"
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Re: I think there use to be a connection of the RDG and the PRR at
Engleside,way back alot of years.
 
I f there was a connection there, I don't remember. However, it doesn't
show as an interchange point in either 1950 or 1968.
 
 
Al

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<TITLE>Message</TITLE>

<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2726.2500" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D405331619-12072003><FONT face=3DArial>Re:<FONT =
size=3D2> I think=20
there use to be a connection of the RDG and the PRR at Engleside,way =
back alot=20
of years.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D405331619-12072003><FONT=20
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV><SPAN =
class=3D405331619-12072003><FONT=20
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
size=3D3>I<SPAN=20
class=3D405331619-12072003>&nbsp;f there was a connection there, I don't =
remember.=20
However, it doesn't show&nbsp;as an interchange point in either 1950 or=20
1968.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
class=3D405331619-12072003></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
class=3D405331619-12072003></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
class=3D405331619-12072003>Al</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV></BODY></H=
TML>

------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C348BE.F88F68C0--



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Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 19:54:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: robert netzlof <wb3iqe@rocketmail.com>
Subject: RE: [PRR] Philadelphia interchanges

--- Al Buchan <abbuchan1@comcast.net> wrote:
> Re: I think there use to be a connection of the RDG and the PRR at
> Engleside,way back alot of years.
>  
> If there was a connection there, I don't remember. However, it
> doesn't show as an interchange point in either 1950 or 1968.
>  
According th the valuation report (Vol 22, page 214) PRR had a
"traffic connection" with the Philadelphia and Reading Rwy at, among
others, Engleside, PA. That eas as of June 30, 1918.

=====
Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob


__________________________________
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From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:24:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PRR] MofW Tenders

List,

    Is there a list somewhere of the Tenders used in MofW service? In
particular, the long haul welded side Tenders. When I say "list", I also
mean if records exsist to match what the MofW number was and what the
original Tender number was or what it atleast came from. I have purpose
to this question. Thanks, Gary





Come visit my PRR Pages:  Photos, Models, Historical Items and  Art
Work!

PRR K4s Loco Pics:
http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/

PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.:

http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html

and......

PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models:

http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html


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From: "Al Buchan" <abbuchan1@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: [PRR] MofW Tenders
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:41:22 -0400

Gary,

If there is I've never seen it, which doesn't mean much. I'd be very
interested in it.

Thanx.

Al

Re:   List of Tenders used in MfW service? 



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From: "Al Buchan" <abbuchan1@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: [PRR] Philadelphia interchanges
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:07:28 -0400

There were lots of places that had track connections that may or may not
have at one time been interchanges. Go to any ORER for your favorite
railroad an go to the back pages under  "Consolidated Freight
Connections and Junction Points,"   where all connections are listed.
Then check how many have a "Note 1" annotation, which means "Track
connection but not used as regular interchange point." These of course
changed over time.

Al




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From: "Bill Lane" <billlane@comcast.net>
Subject: [PRR] Why does this happen?
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 18:09:07 -0400

Hi All,

I have just returned from the NASG convention where I sat at my table
promoting and selling my X29 project. www.pennsysmodels.com

The following has happened before, however, when it happened this week, I
REALLY had to wonder......

A man came up to the table and looked at the pilot model. He seemed to be
impressed with the detail and quality. His comments were positive. He said,
"I would need at least 20 of these, but I can't afford that many of them." I
told him this would be his only chance to get the variety of cars in S Scale
because they will most likely never be made again. After a little more
conversation, he took the order form and wandered off into the show. He left
me more then a little bit wondrous about him.

Could someone PLEASE explain this to me? If you want 20 of a certain car,
but can't afford that many of them, then how is it that buying none is
BETTER then buying one or two of them? If you are modeling the Pennsy as
this man said he was, you HAVE to have the X29! I truly don't understand it.

Thanks
Bill


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From: LeeRainey@aol.com
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 19:18:14 EDT
Subject: Re: [PRR] Why does this happen?


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In a message dated 7/13/2003 6:15:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
billlane@comcast.net writes:


> Could someone PLEASE explain this to me? If you want 20 of a certain car,
> but can't afford that many of them, then how is it that buying none is
> BETTER then buying one or two of them? If you are modeling the Pennsy as
> this man said he was, you HAVE to have the X29! I truly don't understand it.
> 

Bill, the guy at the convention was not me, but since I am one of the people 
who said this to you some years ago, here is the story. The price of one car 
is more than I can comfortably pay, but certainly a fair return for the work 
you have put into it. If I need 20, and will have to find some other way to 
simulate the other 19 with cars that are not as good as yours, why pay an 
uncomfortable amount for the 20th? Having 19 average cars and 1 super car is not worth 
it to me. 20 average cars works as well.

This is why the world has Ford Expeditions and Ford Escorts. Both are worth 
their price. Not everyone chooses to, or can, pay the higher price.

Lee Rainey

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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 7/13/2003 6:15:33 PM Eastern Standa=
rd Time, billlane@comcast.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT=
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Could someone PLEASE explain th=
is to me? If you want 20 of a certain car,<BR>
but can't afford that many of them, then how is it that buying none is<BR>
BETTER then buying one or two of them? If you are modeling the Pennsy as<BR>
this man said he was, you HAVE to have the X29! I truly don't understand it.=
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Bill, the guy at the convention was not me, but since I am one of the people=
 who said this to you some years ago, here is the story. The price of one ca=
r is more than I can comfortably pay, but certainly a fair return for the wo=
rk you have put into it. If I need 20, and will have to find some other way=20=
to simulate the other 19 with cars that are not as good as yours, why pay an=
 uncomfortable amount for the 20th? Having 19 average cars and 1 super car i=
s not worth it to me. 20 average cars works as well.<BR>
<BR>
This is why the world has Ford Expeditions and Ford Escorts. Both are worth=20=
their price. Not everyone chooses to, or can, pay the higher price.<BR>
<BR>
Lee Rainey</FONT></HTML>

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From: "Gregg Mahlkov" <mahlkov@gtcom.net>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Why does this happen?
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 19:58:37 -0400

Bill,

Lee ERainey gave you one excellent reason, and I'll suggest another. Many
folks like you go to conventions and sell your wares at the retail price,
but you also sell to dealers at the standard dealer discount. Perhaps the
gentleman thought that he could get a better price from a dealer for
ordering 20 there. I'm in N scale, not S, so I'm not familiar with how you
sell your products, but I've sure seen this happen.

Gregg Mahlkov

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Lane" <billlane@comcast.net>
To: "Steam Era Freight cars" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>; "S Scale List"
<S-Scale@yahoogroups.com>; "PRR Talk" <PRR-Talk@dsop.com>; "PRR Modeling"
<PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com>; "Brass Collectors"
<brasscollectors@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 6:09 PM
Subject: [PRR] Why does this happen?


> Hi All,
>
> I have just returned from the NASG convention where I sat at my table
> promoting and selling my X29 project. www.pennsysmodels.com
>
> The following has happened before, however, when it happened this week, I
> REALLY had to wonder......
>
> A man came up to the table and looked at the pilot model. He seemed to be
> impressed with the detail and quality. His comments were positive. He
said,
> "I would need at least 20 of these, but I can't afford that many of them."
I
> told him this would be his only chance to get the variety of cars in S
Scale
> because they will most likely never be made again. After a little more
> conversation, he took the order form and wandered off into the show. He
left
> me more then a little bit wondrous about him.
>
> Could someone PLEASE explain this to me? If you want 20 of a certain car,
> but can't afford that many of them, then how is it that buying none is
> BETTER then buying one or two of them? If you are modeling the Pennsy as
> this man said he was, you HAVE to have the X29! I truly don't understand
it.
>
> Thanks
> Bill
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: RDG2124@aol.com
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:55:08 EDT
Subject: [PRR] Walthers 10-5 smooth side car


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  I cannot find a Pennsy photo that matches the Walthers photo on their web 
site.  Did the Pennsy have these cars or were their these cars in other roads 
paint schemes that travelled on Pennsy trains. 

Many thanks,

Evan Leisey
RCT&HS  346

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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">&nbsp; I cannot find a Pennsy photo that matches the W=
althers photo on their web site.&nbsp; Did the Pennsy have these cars or wer=
e their these cars in other roads paint schemes that travelled on Pennsy tra=
ins. <BR>
<BR>
Many thanks,<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2=
 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Copperplate Gothic Bold" LANG=3D"0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2=
 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Bookman Old Style" LANG=3D"0">Evan Leisey<BR>
RCT&amp;HS&nbsp; 346</FONT></HTML>

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From: "Bob Zoeller" <bobspf@wi.rr.com>
Subject: [PRR] Re: [PCL] Walthers 10-5 smooth side car
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:50:43 -0500




>   I cannot find a Pennsy photo that matches the Walthers photo on their
web
> site.  Did the Pennsy have these cars or were their these cars in other
roads
> paint schemes that travelled on Pennsy trains.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Evan Leisey

I didn't get out the rivet counter (welded side anyway) but the photo I see
on the Walthers site looks identical (less skirting) to the diagram in the
Pullman-Standard reference library for the 41 10-5s delivered in 1938-40 to
the PRR.  Skirting is another issue with these PRR prewar Walthers cars
delivered in the postwar scheme.  I hope they will follow up the promised
Fleet of Modernism scheme for the 4-4-2 with one for the 10-5 and both have
full skirting as appropriate. When I get ambitious I will get an undec 4-4-2
with skirting to do the Golden State run-through car on the PRR.

Bob Zoeller

Bob Zoeller


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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:09:57 -0400
From: "Michael A. Hmel" <michaelhmel@bigplanet.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Why does this happen?

Hi List ,
Another reason may be that the gentleman may have been tring to get a little
discount from you for 20 cars . I run into this every day in my construction
business . " I have this big job to do in a few months , but for now I need
this tiny thing done . How about taking care of me cause you'll get the big
one later "........ Sure ! If I got all those I may a have a real set of PRR
F's running around my island .  I think that most people have money for what
they have money for . They buy whats important to them . Thats why they have
Ford Explorers , Ford Expeditions and Ford Excursions .
Chances are he was just " sight seeing "

Mike


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From: "Pennsy Nut" <PennsyNut@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PRR] Why does this happen?
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:38:07 -0500

Hi Y'all

I get a kick out of the "Ford" analogies.  How about GM?  They have so many
duplicate models it's staggering.  Chevy and GMC and every model one has,
the other has also.  Blazer, Yukon, Suburban & Jimmy and ?.  I don't even
know all the names.  Not to mention all the different vans they sell.  LOL

I think you, Mike, have hit the nail on the head.  That gentleman was indeed
looking for a discount.  He wanted the Bill to say "how about 20 for the
price of 10"  or something equally ridiculous.

Morgan Bilbo
Ferroequinologist
PRRTHS #1204 & Proud SPF

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael A. Hmel" <michaelhmel@bigplanet.com>
To: "prr-talk list" <PRR-Talk@dsop.com>
Sent: Monday, 14 July, 2003 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [PRR] Why does this happen?


> Hi List ,
> Another reason may be that the gentleman may have been tring to get a
little
> discount from you for 20 cars . I run into this every day in my
construction
> business . " I have this big job to do in a few months , but for now I
need
> this tiny thing done . How about taking care of me cause you'll get the
big
> one later "........ Sure ! If I got all those I may a have a real set of
PRR
> F's running around my island .  I think that most people have money for
what
> they have money for . They buy whats important to them . Thats why they
have
> Ford Explorers , Ford Expeditions and Ford Excursions .
> Chances are he was just " sight seeing "
>
> Mike
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
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>

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X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" <domemt@juno.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 06:44:50 GMT
Subject: [PRR] Golden State run through ops
From: Dominic Mazoch <domemt@juno.com>


The GS ran from Chicago to Las Angeles via El Paso over the RI and SP.  

Now a few years ago, K-Line made O-27 and O-31 cars for this train.  The ads mentioned the PRR was the "third railroad" involved with the GS.  Did the whole train exchange between the RI and PRR at Chicago, or just some cars.

Thanks for any info,


Dominic Mazoch

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