From: "John Bruce" Subject: Re: [PRR] dwarf signals Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 07:29:40 -0700 A dwarf signal, if this is your general question, is an absolute signal used to control low-speed movements within an interlocking or yard limit. Someone else will have to explain why some have multiple indications. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 5:39 PM Subject: [PRR] dwarf signals > Friends: > > When I was a youngster, I remember seeing a three light, two position dwarf > signal near the station at Lancaster, PA. Since then, I don't believe I have > seen any. Where were these signals usually located, what was their purpose > and what did the positions indicate. Some of the illustrations I have seen > of dwarf signals showed what looked like three aspects, vertical, diagonal > up to the right and horizontal, using four lights. > Lew > > > > > How long a minute is depends on what side of the bathroom door you're on. > > Synergistic Solutions: Alternative, Sustainable Waste Management and Energy > Systems. Advocating water for life through sustainable agriculture, > sustainable toilets, sustainable gray water systems and sustainable green > construction. > Lewis J. Matt III, Ph.D., C.S.E.O., B.O.C.A.I. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 13:52:40 EDT Subject: [PRR] Items for Sale --part1_137.20555509.2c0b9768_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0 I have the following items for sale. Please contact OFF list wi= th the=20 above subject with questions. Prices DO NOT incl shp. I do work out of town=20= so=20 responses may not be right away. PRR CT 1000E Nov 1,1923-Very good cond=A0=A0 $ 100 PRR CT 1000E May 1,1945-Very good cond, $ 30 PRR Loco Test Plant Book No.21 for Class E6=A0 $20 PRR Station Plan Book,Copy of 1907 book,71 stations E. of Pgh, a front view, =A0 a cross sect. view & shows location, 8 towers, sig bridges-2 thru 8 trac= ks=20 =A0 wide. 90 pgs, 8-1/2 x11=A0 $25=20 PRR Middle Division Interlocking Plants, Copy of 1914-1917 plans,Banks to=20 Slope, =A0 Hollidaysburg Br,Morison Cove Br, 50 pgs,8-1/2 x 14=A0=A0 $25=A0=20 PRR Map of 1881 MainLine from Alt. to Johnstown,Alleg. Portage RR & inclines= , =A0 New Portage Br,Blue print copied from original linen.=A0 $9 PRR Mine Card & Revenue Waybill,has 3 copies with carbon paper=A0 $2 PRR Pocket calenders-1957 & 1960=A0 $ 6 PRR Land Book of 1890 for South West Pennsylvania RailWay=A0 $400 PRR CT1515 Qualification Card-New,never issued=A0 $6 PRR MW200 Machinery Qualification Card- New,never issued=A0 $5 PRR MW52(D) Manual of Instructions for MW Equip. NO COVER,=20 =A0=A0 dated 1-1-60,very good cond.=A0 $35 PRR Demurrage Card-pad, unused=A0 $5 PRR Application for Position-Pad of 100 unused,for bidding on jobs=A0 $5 PRR Deposit Slip book-Pad,unused=A0 $5 PRR Annual Report-1930 $30 PRR Annual Report-1945=A0 $25 PRR Annual Reports-1953,58=A0 $12 PRR Annual Reports-1952,55,59,60,61,62=A0 $15 PRR 1st Annual Report 1848 (1894 reprint)Front cover loose,pages brittle=A0=20= $50 =A0=20 PRR Cent. Reg.ETT No.4, 10-27-67,Good used cond,has all G.O.'s=A0 $20 PRR Storage stamps for baggage-full book of 100 - 5 cents, 35 cents, =A0 75 cents=A0 $10 ea.bk=20 PRR Leather Conductors wallet (well used)name still visible $5 PRR 25 year Bronze service pin=A0 $30 PRR ConCor, Ltd. Ed., Keystone Psgr set,Erie builts,Hwt cars w/keystones new,not run,engines tested only $ 250=20 PC Leather conductors Wallet-Good cond=A0 $18 PC CT-225-G Haz. Mtl. Reg-plastic cover,good cond=A0 $12 PC 1969 Annual Report-Fair cond-water mark=A0 $5 PC POST employee magizine,various issues but not all=A0 $4 PC MW1-New Unused=A0 $ 16 PC MW4-Used but excellent cond,field notes on some pages,1section=20 =A0 for inspection,1 section for construction=A0=A0 $20=20 PC Conductor & Trainman Hat Badges=A0=A0 $40 PC Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform=A0 $40 CR C&S Signal plans,Blue CR logo on cover,NEW,not issued $125 =20 CR Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform=A0=A0 $40 CR First Aid Kit-New,unused,Large square metal case with red Conrail & logo= =A0=20 $40 CR Hardhat-MW-New,unused,1 safari style=A0 $18, 2 reg style=A0 $15 ea. CR Annual Report-1987=A0 $12 CR MW-4,NEW,never used,has a couple of small rub marks across logo =A0=A0 but other wise excellent.=A0 $30 Pullman Brass Car Door handles-From Heavyweight PRR Sleepers,old former camp =A0=A0 cars,some dinges and dents mostly to door knob,latch moves,heavy=A0 $= 40=A0=20 Great Northern Atlas N scale FA1 (2 units)-older stock,not run,tested only= =A0=20 $55pr EL ETT #4=A0 2-24-74=A0 $15 Thank you. Pat McKinney --part1_137.20555509.2c0b9768_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List
=A0=A0=A0=A0 I have the following items for sale. Please contact OFF list wi= th the above subject with questions. Prices DO NOT incl shp. I do wor= k out of town so responses may not be right away.


PRR CT 1000E Nov 1,1923-Very good cond=A0=A0 $ 100
PRR CT 1000E May 1,1945-= Very good cond,  $ 3= 0
PRR Loco Test Plant Book No.21 for Class E6=A0 $20=
PRR Station Plan Book,Copy of 1907 book,71 stations E. of Pgh, a fron= t view,
=A0 a cross sect. view & shows location, 8 towers, sig bridges-2 thru 8=20= tracks
=A0 wide. 90 pgs, 8-1/2 x11=A0 $25
PRR Middle Division Interlocking Plants, Copy of 1914-1917 plans,Banks to Sl= ope,
=A0 Hollidaysburg Br,Morison Cove Br, 50 pgs,8-1/2 x 14=A0=A0 $25=A0
PRR Map of 1881 MainLine from Alt. to Johnstown,Alleg. Portage RR & incl= ines,
=A0 New Portage Br,Blue print copied from original linen.=A0 $9
PRR Mine Card & Revenue Waybill,has 3 copies with carbon paper=A0 $2
PRR Pocket calenders-1957 & 1960=A0 $ 6
PRR Land Book of 1890 for South West Pennsylvania RailWay=A0 $400
PRR CT1515 Qualification Card-New,never issued=A0 $6<= /B>
PRR MW200 Machinery Qualification Card- New,never issued=A0 $5
PRR MW52(D) Manual of Instructions for MW Equip. NO COVER,
=A0=A0 dated 1-1-60,very good cond.=A0 $35
PRR Demurrage Card-pad, unused=A0 $5
PRR Application for Position-Pad of 100 unused,for bidding on jobs=A0 $5
PRR Deposit Slip book-Pad,unused=A0 $5
PRR Annual Report-1930 $3= 0
PRR Annual Report-1945=A0 $25
PRR Annual Reports-1953,58=A0 $12
PRR Annual Reports-1952,55,59,60,61,62=A0 $15
PRR 1st Annual Report 1848 (1894 reprint)Front cover loose,pages brittle=A0=20= $50=A0
PRR Cent. Reg.ETT No.4, 10-27-67,Good used cond,has all G.O.'s=A0 $20
PRR Storage stamps for baggage-full book of 100 - 5 cents, 35 cents,
=A0 75 cents=A0 $10 ea.bk =
PRR Leather Conductors wallet (well used)name still visible $5
PRR 25 year Bronze service pin=A0 $30
PRR ConCor, Ltd. Ed., Keystone Psgr set,Erie builts,Hwt cars w/keystones
   new,not run,engines tested only  $ 250
PC Leather conductors Wallet-Good cond=A0 $18
PC CT-225-G Haz. Mtl. Reg-plastic cover,good cond=A0 $12
PC 1969 Annual Report-Fair cond-water mark=A0 $5
PC POST employee magizin= e,various issues but not all=A0 $4
PC MW1-New Unused=A0 $ 16=
PC MW4-Used but excellent cond,field notes on some pages,1section
=A0 for inspection,1 section for construction=A0=A0 $20
PC Conductor & Trainman Hat Badges=A0=A0 $40<= BR> PC Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform=A0 $40=
CR C&S Signal plans,Blue CR logo on cover,NEW,not issued $125 
CR Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform=A0=A0 $40
CR First Aid Kit-New,unused,Large square metal case with red Conrail & l= ogo=A0 $40
CR Hardhat-MW-New,unused,1 safari style=A0 $18, 2= reg style=A0 $15 = ea.
CR Annual Report-1987=A0 = $12
CR MW-4,NEW,never used,has a couple of small rub marks across logo
=A0=A0 but other wise excellent.=A0 $30
Pullman Brass Car Door handles-From Heavyweight PRR Sleepers,old former camp=
=A0=A0 cars,some dinges and dents mostly to door knob,latch moves,heavy=A0 <= /FONT>$40=A0
Great Northern Atlas N scale FA1 (2 units)-older stock,not run,tested only= =A0 $55pr
EL ETT #4=A0 2-24-74=A0 $= 15

Thank you.
Pat McKinney

 --part1_137.20555509.2c0b9768_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 14:27:44 -0400 Subject: [PRR] For Sale: Signed Phillip Hastings Books From: Jerry @ Pennsy Merchandise Service has a limited supply of the following book, signed by the author, Douglas Nelson... "Philip R. Hastings: Portrait of the Pennsylvania Railroad" by PRRT&HS member Douglas Nelson and Published by Pine Tree Press. The genius of Philip R. Hastings is captured in this 128-page, museum quality, duo-tone black & white book featuring 145 superb Pennsy images of steam, diesel, and electric. Hastings made repeated trips to the railroad in the 1950s, capturing its landscape in broad strokes, defining its character and embracing its people. Smyth-sewn, cloth covers, 100 lb. paper, maps, index, 128 pages. This book regularly sells for $49.95 but is now available, signed, for $42. Offer limited to quantities on hand. This is one of the best, if not THE BEST, black and white photo book ever done on the Pennsylvania Railroad. Hastings work appeared regularly in TRAINS magazine during the 1950's. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 18:58:42 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] dwarf signals Looking at a rule book (sorry, don't have a _real_ PRR rulebook handy; this is PC, Rules for CT 4/28/68); the only dwarf signal indications shown are: Two vertical lamps. Name: Slow-clear Two horizontal lamps: Name: Stop. Two diagonal lamps (NE to SW): Name: Slow-approach Two diagonal lamps (NW to SE): Name: Restricting. Where there any other indications that could be displayed by dwarf signals? If all four of these indications were possible, the signal would have four lamps, I suppose. John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 19:16:32 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] dwarf signals --part1_1f1.a01ee22.2c0be350_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John & List. Some locations did not require the slow-approach signal so the lite in the middle would be blanked out. Pat McKinney --part1_1f1.a01ee22.2c0be350_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John & List.
        Some locations did not require th= e slow-approach signal so the lite in the middle would be blanked out.

Pat McKinney --part1_1f1.a01ee22.2c0be350_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 20:01:06 -0400 From: Bill Lane Subject: [PRR] S Scale F7 set Hi All, I thought I would post a few quick photos of my S Helper Service S Scale F7 A B A set. I still have to put the decoders in, and touch up the weathering. Then they will be done! Enjoy! http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/S_Scale_F7_1.jpg http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/S_Scale_F7_2.jpg Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] S Scale F7 set Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 20:17:19 -0400 Bill: Very nice! Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Lane" To: "PRR Talk" ; "PRR Modeling" ; "S Trains" ; "S Scale List" Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 8:01 PM Subject: [PRR] S Scale F7 set > Hi All, > > I thought I would post a few quick photos of my S Helper Service S Scale F7 > A B A set. I still have to put the decoders in, and touch up the weathering. > Then they will be done! > > Enjoy! > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/S_Scale_F7_1.jpg > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/S_Scale_F7_2.jpg > > Thanks > Bill > - a > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 21:10:15 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] dwarf signals Pat said, Some locations did not require the slow-approach signal so the lite in the middle would be blanked out. +++++++ The illustrations in my timetable suggest that you only need three lamps for three indications (below, "O" indicates lighted lamp, and "x" indicates unlighted:) Slow clear: O x O Slow approach: O O x Stop: x O O Presumably Restricting would require a fourth lamp: O x x O Additional question: were there dwarfs that didn't have a slow approach but did show Restricting, like this: O x O This also raises the question of whether the curved portion of the target was on the right (for the hypothetical signal just above), different from the first two, which would have the curved portion on the left (which is all that is shown in my rule book). John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 21:39:53 EDT Subject: [PRR] Haltoona --part1_17e.1b91b13f.2c0c04e9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For the second time on this list, I have seen the name Haltoona used with respect to passenger car repairs. Is there such a place or shop or is this a humorous way of pronouncing Altoona?? Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 --part1_17e.1b91b13f.2c0c04e9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   For the second time on this list, I have seen t= he name Haltoona used with respect to passenger car repairs.  Is there=20= such a place or shop or is this a humorous way of pronouncing Altoona??

Evan Leisey
RCT&HS  346 --part1_17e.1b91b13f.2c0c04e9_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 20:03:57 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] dwarf signals --- bobsin@nac.net wrote: > This also raises the question of whether the curved portion of the > target was on the right (for the hypothetical signal just above), > different from the first two, which would have the curved portion > on the left (which is all that is shown in my rule book). It runs in my mind that both kinds existed, that one kind was introduced later than the other. Once the newer kind came into use, the older type was no longer installed but did continue in use where installed. I think the matter was kicked around on this list some time ago. Perhaps a visit to the list archive at kc.pennsyrr.com a/k/a Jerry's Site and search on "dwarf" would turn something up? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Laurie Cooper" Subject: Re: [PRR] dwarf signals Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 20:08:03 -0700 My understanding is that the original dwarfs had the rounded part on the right side, allowing stop, slow-approach, and slow-clear to pivot around the same bulb (lower left) as a semaphore dwarf would. Restricting was then the long diagonal. Then I believe for clearance reasons, the rounded part was moved to the left side, so that stop, restricting, and slow clear would pivot around the lower right bulb, with slow approach on the long diagonal. As for dwarfs with only 3 bulbs, I would think it would be unusual for a dwarf to be able to display slow-approach and slow-clear, and not need to also display restricting. I would think it would be even more unusual for a dwarf to be able to display slow-clear and restricting and not slow-approach. Most likely for a 3 bulbed dwarf would probably be just stop and restricting. John -----Original Message----- From: bobsin@nac.net To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Sunday, June 01, 2003 6:10 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] dwarf signals Pat said, Some locations did not require the slow-approach signal so the lite in the middle would be blanked out. +++++++ The illustrations in my timetable suggest that you only need three lamps for three indications (below, "O" indicates lighted lamp, and "x" indicates unlighted:) Slow clear: O x O Slow approach: O O x Stop: x O O Presumably Restricting would require a fourth lamp: O x x O Additional question: were there dwarfs that didn't have a slow approach but did show Restricting, like this: O x O This also raises the question of whether the curved portion of the target was on the right (for the hypothetical signal just above), different from the first two, which would have the curved portion on the left (which is all that is shown in my rule book). John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ARRJERRY@aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 23:15:14 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] dwarf signals --part1_b4.1dbba0f5.2c0c1b42_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would really like to add dwarf signals to my yard approach. Does anyone know of a model/kit in HO of the PRR type? Thank you, Jerry --part1_b4.1dbba0f5.2c0c1b42_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would really like to add dwarf signals to my yard ap= proach. Does anyone know of a model/kit in HO of the PRR type?
Thank you,
         Jerry --part1_b4.1dbba0f5.2c0c1b42_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 23:24:37 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: [PRR] Re: dwarf signals John, From what I have read on the subject, it appears that the dwarf with the curve on the right side is an older design than that with the curve on the left. The reason for the change may have been to provide increased clearance for larger equipment. Either housing shape can display all 4 aspects, but different lamp combinations are used for the right and left diagonals. Steve Bartlett John Bobsin wrote: Some locations did not require the slow-approach signal so the lite in the middle would be blanked out. .... This also raises the question of whether the curved portion of the target was on the right (for the hypothetical signal just above), different from the first two, which would have the curved portion on the left (which is all that is shown in my rule book). John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 23:47:15 -0400 From: Dave McNeil Subject: [PRR] FA Pennsy Power 2 I have an autographed copy of Al Stauffers Pennsy Power II for auction on Ebay at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2177271856&category=4132&rd=1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 23:53:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: dwarf signals List, I own a PRR dwarf signal. It is a US&S PL-1 type with the access doors on the sides and the slope is on the right side. It can show four aspects. I'm in the process of sand blasting off 70 years of paint. And yes ,it does work. Also found a signal expert who can build relays to lite signals and have the aspects change every 10 mins. or what ever you want. I was lucky to find this one with all the wiring,bulbs, and lenses in good condition. I had been seaching for a dwarf for years. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: dwarf signals Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 07:21:40 -0400 Dave, All you need now are six more, and a poisiton light signal to complete the set. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Haltoona Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 07:58:30 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C328DC.C1E1C220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MessageAs in BEEutiful, Phildelfya, and Igles??=20 Tom Mahon formerly of Mt Ephraim, NJ=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bill Volkmer=20 To: RDG2124@aol.com ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 8:06 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] Haltoona THAT's the way the Station Announcer at North Philadelphia pronounced = it, so that's the way Philadelphians pronounce it! WDV -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of = RDG2124@aol.com Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 9:40 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Haltoona For the second time on this list, I have seen the name Haltoona = used with respect to passenger car repairs. Is there such a place or = shop or is this a humorous way of pronouncing Altoona?? Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C328DC.C1E1C220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
As in BEEutiful, Phildelfya, and = Igles??=20
 
Tom Mahon
formerly of Mt Ephraim, NJ =
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bill Volkmer
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 = 8:06 AM
Subject: RE: [PRR] = Haltoona

THAT's the way the Station Announcer at North Philadelphia = pronounced=20 it, so that's the way Philadelphians pronounce it!
 
WDV
-----Original Message-----
From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of RDG2124@aol.com
Sent: = Sunday,=20 June 01, 2003 9:40 PM
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject:=20 [PRR] Haltoona

  For the second = time on this=20 list, I have seen the name Haltoona used with respect to passenger = car=20 repairs.  Is there such a place or shop or is this a humorous = way of=20 pronouncing Altoona??

Evan Leisey
RCT&HS  346 =
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C328DC.C1E1C220-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Haltoona Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:06:12 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D6_01C328DD.D64B7A20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THAT's the way the Station Announcer at North Philadelphia pronounced it, so that's the way Philadelphians pronounce it! WDV -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of RDG2124@aol.com Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 9:40 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Haltoona For the second time on this list, I have seen the name Haltoona used with respect to passenger car repairs. Is there such a place or shop or is this a humorous way of pronouncing Altoona?? Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 ------=_NextPart_000_00D6_01C328DD.D64B7A20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
THAT's=20 the way the Station Announcer at North Philadelphia pronounced it, so = that's the=20 way Philadelphians pronounce it!
 
WDV
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of=20 RDG2124@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 9:40=20 PM
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR]=20 Haltoona

  For the second time = on this list,=20 I have seen the name Haltoona used with respect to passenger car=20 repairs.  Is there such a place or shop or is this a humorous way = of=20 pronouncing Altoona??

Evan=20 Leisey
RCT&HS  346 =
------=_NextPart_000_00D6_01C328DD.D64B7A20-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Laird" Subject: [PRR] PRR Narrow Gauge Operations Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:10:51 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C328DE.7B57ACA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What narrow gauge operations took place on the Pennsy? I am aware of = the interchange with the East Broad Top. Were there interchanges with = other narrow gauge lines? Did the Pennsy operate any narrow gauge track = or equipment? Bill Laird Canyon Lake, TX Building 2 1/2" scale NG equipment to opeate on 7 1/2" gauge track ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C328DE.7B57ACA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What narrow gauge operations took place on the = Pennsy?  I=20 am aware of the interchange with the East Broad Top.  Were there=20 interchanges with other narrow gauge lines?  Did the Pennsy operate = any=20 narrow gauge track or equipment?
 
Bill Laird
Canyon Lake, TX
Building 2 1/2" scale NG equipment to opeate on 7 = 1/2" gauge=20 track
 
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C328DE.7B57ACA0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dso8.5im. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 09:12:49 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Narrow Gauge Operations From: Jerry Britton On 6/2/03 9:10 AM, Bill Laird (Bill-Laird@satx.rr.com) wrote: > What narrow gauge operations took place on the Pennsy? I am aware of the > interchange with the East Broad Top. Were there interchanges with other > narrow gauge lines? Did the Pennsy operate any narrow gauge track or > equipment? > There were quite a few that interchanged on the Middle Division. There was one at Newport (or Port Royal?) that George Pierson models. There was a Perry County railroad that came in at Duncannon. I know there were others. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Narrow Gauge Operations Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 06:25:46 -0700 Bill and all, I heard that the Pennsy (at one time) operated at least 3 narrow gauge lines, all 3 foot. One was the Ohio River and Western, another one was the Waynesburg and Western (one of their locomotives survives today) and I can't remember the third line. One of the Pennsy Power books has a photo of one of the W&W locomotives, lettered "PENNSYLVANIA". Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ On Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:10:51 -0500 "Bill Laird" wrote: > What narrow gauge operations took place on the Pennsy? I > am aware of the interchange with the East Broad Top. > Were there interchanges with other narrow gauge lines? > Did the Pennsy operate any narrow gauge track or > equipment? > > Bill Laird > Canyon Lake, TX > Building 2 1/2" scale NG equipment to opeate on 7 1/2" > gauge track > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:25:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Narrow Gauge Operations On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Bill Laird wrote: > What narrow gauge operations took place on the Pennsy? I am aware of > the interchange with the East Broad Top. Were there interchanges with > other narrow gauge lines? Did the Pennsy operate any narrow gauge track > or equipment? The Ohio River and Western, and the Waynesburg and Washington were both narrow gauge (and operated by the Pennsy) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Haltoona Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:36:10 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C328EA.674A0B70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No as in Payoli, Lannnnnnncaster, Hairrrrrisburg, Lewissssssstown, Mount Union, Tyrone, Halllllltoona, Johnstown, Latrobe, Greensburg, East Libbbbberty, and Pittsburgh. And that's just the way it wuz. WDV -----Original Message----- From: Tom Mahon [mailto:tmahon@adelphia.net] Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 7:59 AM To: Bill Volkmer; RDG2124@aol.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Haltoona As in BEEutiful, Phildelfya, and Igles?? Tom Mahon formerly of Mt Ephraim, NJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Volkmer To: RDG2124@aol.com ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 8:06 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] Haltoona THAT's the way the Station Announcer at North Philadelphia pronounced it, so that's the way Philadelphians pronounce it! WDV -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of RDG2124@aol.com Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 9:40 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Haltoona For the second time on this list, I have seen the name Haltoona used with respect to passenger car repairs. Is there such a place or shop or is this a humorous way of pronouncing Altoona?? Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C328EA.674A0B70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
No as=20 in Payoli, Lannnnnnncaster, Hairrrrrisburg, Lewissssssstown, Mount = Union,=20 Tyrone, Halllllltoona, Johnstown, Latrobe, Greensburg, East Libbbbberty, = and=20 Pittsburgh.
 
And=20 that's just the way it wuz.
 
WDV
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom = Mahon=20 [mailto:tmahon@adelphia.net]
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 = 7:59=20 AM
To: Bill Volkmer; RDG2124@aol.com;=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: Re: [PRR] = Haltoona

As in BEEutiful, Phildelfya, and = Igles??=20
 
Tom Mahon
formerly of Mt Ephraim, NJ =
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bill Volkmer
To: RDG2124@aol.com ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 = 8:06=20 AM
Subject: RE: [PRR] = Haltoona

THAT's the way the Station Announcer at North Philadelphia = pronounced=20 it, so that's the way Philadelphians pronounce = it!
 
WDV
-----Original Message-----
From: mso-A=20 href=3D"mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com">PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of RDG2124@aol.com
Sent: = Sunday,=20 June 01, 2003 9:40 PM
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject:=20 [PRR] Haltoona

  For the second = time on this=20 list, I have seen the name Haltoona used with respect to passenger = car=20 repairs.  Is there such a place or shop or is this a humorous = way of=20 pronouncing Altoona??

Evan Leisey
RCT&HS  = 346=20
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C328EA.674A0B70-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 09:56:30 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 06/01/03 From: "Stephen H. Prosser" > For the second time on this list, I have seen the name Haltoona used with > respect to passenger car repairs. Is there such a place or shop or is th= is a > humorous way of pronouncing Altoona?? Evan & List, As a former Altoonan or "Altoid" as some of us say, I have never heard of a= n Haltoona, nor do I think that it's funny. The correct funny way to say Altoona (and using proper Altoonaese) is "Altonna" as in "gonna". =20 Hope this clears things up (once and for all), --=20 Steve Prosser Modeling Altoona and Environs _____________________________________________=86\ / =3DALTOONA=3D | / | \HOME OF THE WORLD'S LARGEST RAILROAD SHOPS | \____________________________________________ | \ | \| =20 -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "JOHN PLACHA" Subject: [PRR] Dwarf Signals PRR Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:09:27 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C328EF.0D078FC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My friend that works for NS ,is the regonal Superviser for the = signal dept. HE told me the original dwarfs were supplied by one vender. = When that vender went out of business the person that copied the specs = for the new vender, accidentaly copied the photo negative backwards. = That is why the dwarfs were changed,when broken,or no longer = sevisable,the slope was to the opposite side.The originals all sloped to = the right,the newer ones sloped to the left,due to the clerical = error,when this was noticed the PRR had already purchaced hundreds of = them. John P. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C328EF.0D078FC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
        My=20 friend that works for NS ,is the regonal Superviser for the signal dept. = HE told=20 me the original dwarfs were supplied by one vender. When that vender = went out of=20 business the person that copied the specs for the new vender, = accidentaly copied=20 the photo negative backwards. That is why the dwarfs were changed,when = broken,or=20 no longer sevisable,the slope was to the opposite side.The originals all = sloped=20 to the right,the newer ones sloped to the left,due to the clerical = error,when=20 this was noticed the PRR had already purchaced hundreds of=20 them.           &n= bsp;       John=20 P.
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C328EF.0D078FC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Narrow Gauge Operations Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:47:44 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C328F4.666F3040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lew, What about the Ohio River & Western from Bellaire to Zanesville, OH? It = was owned by PRR and 3ft gauge. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lewis J. Matt PhD=20 To: PRR-Talk LIST ; Bill Laird=20 Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Narrow Gauge Operations Bill: The Waynesburg and Washington was Pennsy's only operating 3 foot = narrow gage railroad and was never changed to standard gage. It ran in = southwestern PA between Washington and Waynesburg, both towns are = located along Interstate 79. The roadbed is still in existence along = with all the bridges and can be walked. Many of the structures are = still in place and in good repair, being used by local farmers who have = "claimed" the right of way on their land. The right of way is still = owned in total by a holding company in Ohio(?). I would like to see this RR rebuilt as a light rail and connect the = existing Pittsburgh light rail, located in North Washington, and run = through Waynesburg to Morgantown W Va. A Baldwin 2-6-0 w/tender from the W&W is on display at the Waynesburg = Historical Society, just minutes from I 79. This loco looks like the = Bachman On30 (or is it the other way around????). Jim Weinshanker is the resident expert on the W&W and is currently = writing a book on the subject. It is scheduled for printing very soon. = Contact Gary Kohler of the Maine 2 foot publications m2fq@aol.com for = details on availability etc. This book will have all new, unpublished = photos. There is also a periodical about the W&W published by Jim. Lew How long a minute is depends on what side of the bathroom door you're = on. Synergistic Solutions: Alternative, Sustainable Waste Management and = Energy Systems. Advocating water for life through sustainable = agriculture, sustainable toilets, sustainable gray water systems and = sustainable green construction. Lewis J. Matt III, Ph.D., C.S.E.O., B.O.C.A.I. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bill Laird=20 To: Talk PRR=20 Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 9:10 AM Subject: [PRR] PRR Narrow Gauge Operations What narrow gauge operations took place on the Pennsy? I am aware = of the interchange with the East Broad Top. Were there interchanges = with other narrow gauge lines? Did the Pennsy operate any narrow gauge = track or equipment? Bill Laird Canyon Lake, TX Building 2 1/2" scale NG equipment to opeate on 7 1/2" gauge track ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C328F4.666F3040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lew,
 
What about the Ohio River & Western from = Bellaire to=20 Zanesville, OH? It was owned by PRR and 3ft gauge.
 
Gregg Mahlkov
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Lewis J. = Matt PhD=20
To: PRR-Talk LIST ; Bill=20 Laird
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 = 9:44=20 AM
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Narrow = Gauge=20 Operations

Bill:
 
The Waynesburg and Washington was = Pennsy's only=20 operating 3 foot narrow gage railroad and was never changed to = standard=20 gage.  It ran in southwestern PA between Washington and = Waynesburg, both=20 towns are located along Interstate 79.  The roadbed is still = in=20 existence along with all the bridges and can be walked.  Many of = the=20 structures are still in place and in good repair, being used by local = farmers=20 who have "claimed" the right of way on their land.  The right of = way is=20 still owned in total by a holding company in Ohio(?).
 
I would like to see this RR rebuilt = as a light=20 rail and connect the existing Pittsburgh light rail, located=20 in North Washington, and run through Waynesburg to = Morgantown W=20 Va.
 
A Baldwin 2-6-0 w/tender from the = W&W is on=20 display at the Waynesburg Historical Society, just minutes from I = 79. =20 This loco looks like the Bachman On30 (or is it the other way=20 around????).
 
Jim Weinshanker is the resident = expert on the=20 W&W and is currently writing a book on the subject.  It is = scheduled=20 for printing very soon.  Contact Gary Kohler of the Maine 2 foot=20 publications m2fq@aol.com for = details=20 on availability etc.  This book will have all new,=20 unpublished photos.  There is also a=20 periodical about the W&W published by Jim.
 
Lew
 
 
 
How long a minute is depends on what side of the bathroom door = you're=20 on.
 
Synergistic Solutions: Alternative, Sustainable Waste Management = and=20 Energy Systems.  Advocating water for life through sustainable=20 agriculture,  sustainable toilets,  sustainable gray water = systems=20 and  sustainable green construction.
Lewis J. Matt III, Ph.D., = C.S.E.O., B.O.C.A.I.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bill=20 Laird
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 = 9:10=20 AM
Subject: [PRR] PRR Narrow = Gauge=20 Operations

What narrow gauge operations took place on the=20 Pennsy?  I am aware of the interchange with the East Broad = Top. =20 Were there interchanges with other narrow gauge lines?  Did the = Pennsy=20 operate any narrow gauge track or equipment?
 
Bill Laird
Canyon Lake, TX
Building 2 1/2" scale NG equipment to opeate on = 7 1/2"=20 gauge track
 
------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C328F4.666F3040-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 07:52:08 -0700 From: Peter Weiglin Subject: [PRR] Haltoona Steve Prosser wrote: > As a former Altoonan or "Altoid" as some of us say, I have never > heard of an Haltoona, nor do I think that it's funny. The correct > funny way to say Altoona (and using proper Altoonaese) is "Altonna" > as in "gonna". -- But Bill Volkmer's point was that "Haltoona" was the way PHILADELPHIANS pronounced "Altoona." There are sub-regional differences. The constant seems to be the "Gyunt Iggle" supermarket chain. (And to translate for the Penn-Texans, the "Iggle" is our national bird.) Peter Weiglin San Mateo CA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:21:00 EDT Subject: [PRR] (no subject) --part1_18c.1b23d7f6.2c0cc55c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/2/2003 11:12:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com writes: > Not "Philadelphians" Pete, more specifically the TRAIN announcer on the > loud speaker at North Philadelphia station, which was a hangout for > legions of railfans. > Not to be confused with the Sunday afternoon announcer at Newark (NJ) Pennsylvania Station, who reduced each of the station names for the Jersey Avenue local to a single syllable, e.g., "'Tuch". During a recent stint of telephone-order-taking, more than half of my callers from Metuchen remembered the PRR pronunciation of their borough's name. Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA --part1_18c.1b23d7f6.2c0cc55c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 6/2/20= 03 11:12:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com writes:


Not "Philadelphians" Pete,=20= more specifically the TRAIN announcer on the
loud speaker at North Philadelphia station, which was a hangout for
legions of railfans.


Not to be confused with the Sunday afternoon announcer at Newark (NJ)
Pennsylvania Station, who reduced each of the station names for the=20
Jersey Avenue local to a single syllable, e.g., "'Tuch". During a recent
stint of telephone-order-taking, more than half of my callers from Metuc= hen
remembered the PRR pronunciation of their borough's name.

Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA --part1_18c.1b23d7f6.2c0cc55c_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:22:37 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Haltoona --part1_156.1fe767e4.2c0cc5bd_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/2/2003 11:12:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com writes: > Not "Philadelphians" Pete, more specifically the TRAIN announcer on the > loud speaker at North Philadelphia station, which was a hangout for > legions of railfans. > Not to be confused with the Sunday afternoon announcer at Newark (NJ) Pennsylvania Station, who reduced each of the station names for the Jersey Avenue local to a single syllable, e.g., "'Tuch". During a recent stint of telephone-order-taking, more than half of my callers from Metuchen remembered the PRR pronunciation of their borough's name. Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA --part1_156.1fe767e4.2c0cc5bd_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 6/2/20= 03 11:12:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com writes:

Not "Philadelphians" Pete,=20= more specifically the TRAIN announcer on the
loud speaker at North Philadelphia station, which was a hangout for
legions of railfans.


Not to be confused with the Sunday afternoon announcer at Newark (NJ)
Pennsylvania Station, who reduced each of the station names for the=20
Jersey Avenue local to a single syllable, e.g., "'Tuch". During a recent
stint of telephone-order-taking, more than half of my callers from Metuc= hen
remembered the PRR pronunciation of their borough's name.

Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA --part1_156.1fe767e4.2c0cc5bd_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Haltoona Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:23:21 -0400 Not "Philadelphians" Pete, more specifically the TRAIN announcer on the loud speaker at North Philadelphia station, which was a hangout for legions of railfans. Or have we all forgotten the most populous trainwatching spot in the nation until Cajon Pass was discovered? -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Peter Weiglin Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 10:52 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Haltoona Steve Prosser wrote: > As a former Altoonan or "Altoid" as some of us say, I have never > heard of an Haltoona, nor do I think that it's funny. The correct > funny way to say Altoona (and using proper Altoonaese) is "Altonna" > as in "gonna". -- But Bill Volkmer's point was that "Haltoona" was the way PHILADELPHIANS pronounced "Altoona." There are sub-regional differences. The constant seems to be the "Gyunt Iggle" supermarket chain. (And to translate for the Penn-Texans, the "Iggle" is our national bird.) Peter Weiglin San Mateo CA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] More PRR along I-70 Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:51:34 -0500 And there are still discernable remnants of the PRR passenger station along the river and the bike path where the tracks were located. -----Original Message----- From: Dan Cupper [mailto:cupper@att.net] Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 12:11 AM To: Beth Caples Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] More PRR along I-70 Greetings to John, Jerry, and the List: Not equipment, but some more I-70 PRR highlights: Columbus, Ohio It's fairly easy to take a quick detour off I-70 to the Columbus Airport. If you follow a service road to the southeast end of the airport property, you'll find the original Port Columbus Airport terminal building intact, converted for office space. It is exactly as shown in surviving photos and the 1929 Grif Teller PRR calendar painting, which illustrated the rail-to-air transfer when PRR's Airway Limited connected with Transcontinental Air Transport to offer 48-hour coast-to-coast travel. The ex-PRR Panhandle main line, now Ohio Central, tracks are right across the street, and you can see how easy it was for detraining PRR passengers to walk the short distance to the waiting TAT Ford Tri-Motor plane. Zanesville to Bellaire, Ohio (opposite Wheeling, W.Va.) Definitely need more time than a quick stop off the interstate provides, but this was Ohio River & Western narrow-gauge territory and the abandoned right-of-way can still be seen in places. Wheeling W.Va. If you have an extra half-hour while you're passing through Wheeling, W.Va., it's fairly easy to find a surviving ex-PRR tunnel on active track. From the Interstate(s), there are two ways to get there. If using I-70 proper through town, exit into the city and follow local streets south until you come to the only tracks left in town, then turn around and follow them northeast, using parallel and cross streets, and you'll eventually come to the tunnel. If using I-470, the bypass, exit the interstate and start to drive north on local streets toward Wheeling until you come to the tracks, then follow the directions above. This is a remnant of PRR's former Wheeling Terminal Railway. If you have more time to explore, it's not too difficult to follow local streets to trace the ex-PRR trackage on the north end of the tunnel. Connected to the outside world only via ex-B&O trackage on the south end, this ex-PRR line leads to a small industrial park and what used to be an interchange (and once upon a time, a wye) with the now-abandoned Pittsburgh-Wheeling line of the B&O, now a hiking-biking trail in and around Wheeling. (By the way, the very substantial ex-B&O passenger station still stands in the city, but all the B&O tracks leading to it are gone.) North of the industrial park, the ex-PRR line is abandoned, but it previously passed through two more tunnels and then crossed the Ohio into Martin's Ferry, Ohio, on a bridge that no longer exists. From there, it connected with another PRR line that ran north to Steubenville, Ohio, and a connection with the Panhandle main line. If you drive to the north end of Wheeling, you can observe the northernmost portal of the northernmost WTRy tunnel at the point where it exited the mountain high on a bluff, and from that, you can judge the height and the angle it took in crossing the river. A different ex-PRR route into town from the north, the Wheeling Branch, which followed the south bank of the Ohio from Weirton Junction, has been long abandoned. You can see Weirton Jct. and the beginning of the Wheeling Branch on the extreme left side of the 1953 Grif Teller PRR calendar painting, which shows the Panhandle main line crossing the Ohio at Weirton W.Va./Steubenville, Ohio. If you were to have the time to drive up to that area (28 miles), you can almost replicate the scene of that painting because the substantial 1926 steel bridge over the Ohio is still there and still used. Probably not a viable detour with family considerations, but it is possible to take U.S. Route 22 from there to Pittsburgh. Washington, Pa. Pennsylvania Trolley Museum north of the city is located adjacent to the former PRR Chartiers Branch (Pittsburgh area to Washington, Pa.), which is still active Gronow served by a shortline operator. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. Beth Caples wrote: >I would >also like to thank those who answered my vacation question taking I-70 >through Ill,, Ind.,Ohio, and into Pa. >Now for the final question. Is there any PRR equipment (not far off the >beaten path) along this same route? >Thanks, John Caples > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Freitas" Subject: [PRR] Haltoona Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:58:39 -0700 Guess this puts an end to the rumor that Bill Parcells was joining Scott Cessna's management "team". Thanks to: Bill>>Evan>>Tom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:19:22 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Haltoona In a message dated 6/2/03 8:24:47 AM, bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com writes: << No as in Payoli, Lannnnnnncaster, Hairrrrrisburg, Lewissssssstown, Mount Union, Tyrone, Halllllltoona, Johnstown, Latrobe, Greensburg, East Libbbbberty, and Pittsburgh. >> My memories are fading, but I never remember a passenger trainman calling "Payoli!" It was ALWAYS, "Payoli Payoli!" He always said it twice and if you were not from around here, you'd assume it was just another town with a double name like "Walla Walla." Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Haltoona Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 16:23:21 +0000 To us Philadelphians it is Iggles not iggle and they used to play at Franklin Field where you could watch games and while hearing trains on the highline. > Steve Prosser wrote: > > > As a former Altoonan or "Altoid" as some of us say, I have never > > heard of an Haltoona, nor do I think that it's funny. The correct > > funny way to say Altoona (and using proper Altoonaese) is "Altonna" > > as in "gonna". > > -- > > But Bill Volkmer's point was that "Haltoona" was the way PHILADELPHIANS > pronounced "Altoona." There are sub-regional differences. The constant > seems to be the "Gyunt Iggle" supermarket chain. (And to translate for the > Penn-Texans, the "Iggle" is our national bird.) > > Peter Weiglin > San Mateo CA > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Narrow Gauge Operations Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 09:42:58 -0700 Lew, The OR&W was never regauged...just abandoned in the 30's. Many, many years ago there was an article on the last run in Trains written by R.W. Richardson. Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ On Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:24:30 -0400 "Lewis J. Matt PhD" wrote: > I believe that RR and the others, except W&W, were > eventually regaged to standard. > > Lew ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 12:53:05 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Other Road's head-end cars Sounds like it time for the publisher to do another printing! Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Martin Skrzetuszewski wrote: > Thanks for the recommendation. Sadly the ($12.95?) book seems to > command a used price in excess of $150!!. Regards,Martin > Skrzetuszewski > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chrisandbelton2@aol.com > To: j.bruce@gte.net ; martinskrzetuszewski@lineone.net ; > PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2003 3:19 AM > Subject: Re: [PRR] Other Road's head-end cars > I recommend Vic Roseman's book "Railway Express: An > Overview" [Rocky Mountain Publishing, Inc. - 1992] as an > excellent starting point for car assignments and routings. > The Eastern railroads -- including the P.R.R. - are > prominently featured. > > Chris Baker #1918 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alex Charyna" Subject: Re: [PRR] Haltoona Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:58:04 -0800 > No as in Payoli, you mean it's not pronounced "Payoli"? what's next? some crazyness like "water" isn't pronounced "wuhdder"? ;) There used to be (5 years ago) a conductor on Septa's R7... Would call them out as Briiiiiides...burg! Wisssss-ono-MING! Ta-coney! then he'd let you down by announcing Holmesburg Junction in a monotone. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Volkmer" To: "'Tom Mahon'" ; ; Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 5:36 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] Haltoona > No as in Payoli, Lannnnnnncaster, Hairrrrrisburg, Lewissssssstown, Mount > Union, Tyrone, Halllllltoona, Johnstown, Latrobe, Greensburg, East > Libbbbberty, and Pittsburgh. > > And that's just the way it wuz. > > WDV > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Mahon [mailto:tmahon@adelphia.net] > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 7:59 AM > To: Bill Volkmer; RDG2124@aol.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Haltoona > > > As in BEEutiful, Phildelfya, and Igles?? > > Tom Mahon > formerly of Mt Ephraim, NJ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Volkmer > To: RDG2124@aol.com ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 8:06 AM > Subject: RE: [PRR] Haltoona > > THAT's the way the Station Announcer at North Philadelphia pronounced > it, so that's the way Philadelphians pronounce it! > > WDV > > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of > RDG2124@aol.com > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 9:40 PM > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Haltoona > > > For the second time on this list, I have seen the name Haltoona used > with respect to passenger car repairs. Is there such a place or shop or > is this a humorous way of pronouncing Altoona?? > > Evan Leisey > RCT&HS 346 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 13:01:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Other Road's head-end cars From: Jerry Britton On 6/2/03 12:53 PM, Andrew S. Miller (asmiller@mitre.org) wrote: > Sounds like it time for the publisher to do another printing! > That's unreal, $150? Maybe I should discount my own copy for $125! It's a shame, as it's not likely to reprint any time soon, IMHO. It sold very slowly and was, in fact, still available until less than a year ago. Because it did sell slowly, it won't be a likely reprint candidate for a few more years, anyway. > Regards, > > Andy Miller > asmiller@mitre.org > > ================================================== > Martin Skrzetuszewski wrote: > >> Thanks for the recommendation. Sadly the ($12.95?) book seems to >> command a used price in excess of $150!!. Regards,Martin >> Skrzetuszewski >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Chrisandbelton2@aol.com >> To: j.bruce@gte.net ; martinskrzetuszewski@lineone.net ; >> PRR-Talk@dsop.com >> Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2003 3:19 AM >> Subject: Re: [PRR] Other Road's head-end cars >> I recommend Vic Roseman's book "Railway Express: An >> Overview" [Rocky Mountain Publishing, Inc. - 1992] as an >> excellent starting point for car assignments and routings. >> The Eastern railroads -- including the P.R.R. - are >> prominently featured. >> >> Chris Baker #1918 ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:19:36 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Narrow Gauge Operations --- "Lewis J. Matt PhD" wrote: > The Waynesburg and Washington was Pennsy's only operating 3 foot > narrow gage railroad and was never changed to standard gage. Not so, on two counts. 1) The Ohio River and Western (Belaire to Zanesville) was narrow gauge and did operate from 1912 to 1931 as a subsidiary of PRR. See "American Narrow Gauge Railroads", George W. Hilton, Stanford University Press, 1990. 2) Last I looked, which was about 25 years ago, there was standard gauge track on the W&W right of way. Granted, very strange track, with ties 4 to 5 feet apart on trestles. Toward the end of "operation", traffic consisted of a truck fitted with flanged wheels which made regular trips from between Washington and Waynesburg. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Narrow Gauge Operations Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 14:37:20 -0400 Gents, If I recall correctly, some narrow gauge railroads actually switched trucks on cars so they wouldn't have to transfer loads in a standard car to a narrow gauge car. I think they used a crane to necessitate this procedure, but i don't remember. It would be an interesting practice to model. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:22:32 -0500 From: gpierson@trnty.edu Subject: [PRR] PRR NG Ops and connections Hi, all, In the "toot your own horn" dept., I did a presentation at the 2002 annual meeting on PRR NG connections. The outline is posted at the PRRT&HS website under the "annual meeting" link, under the 2002 annual meeting section. Some observations - the PRR's two most direct NG's were the already-mentioned W&W and the OR&W. Beyond this, the PRR had ng interests in a number of lines around Bradford, PA that came into the PRR fold via the W NY & Pa. Also there was the Cincinnati, Lebanon & Northern and the former Bells Gap, both of which started out NG. RE exchange of trucks, in the 19th century, there were many installations for this practice and the most common was the Ramsey Transfer. It used a pit with outside-bearing rails on both sides. The car was stopped at one end, poles placed under it and onto "trolleys" running on the outside-bearing rails. The car was then pushed over the pit, where the St.G trucks dropped off the kingpins and ng trucks were substituted. See Hilton's AMERICAN NG for the whole story. There were many such installations in Ohio and Pennsylvania. They were mostly gone by the 20th century - the last example, to my knowledge, was one used by the B&O at Foxburg, PA where the former Pittsburgh & Western n.g. line (owned by the B&O) ran from Butler, PA and continued on to Mt. Jewett as a NG. The whole line was St.g'd in 1911. I have modeled such a transfer on the Tuscarora Valley RR layout, it works, and it makes for some interesting operating. The two lines mentioned in an earlier message on the Middle Div. which I model, are the Tuscarora Valley RR at Port Royal, and the Newport & Shermans Valley RR at Newport. The Perry County connected at Duncannon but was always st.g. George Pierson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PGrace" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Narrow Gauge Operations Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 20:37:18 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C32946.C2C8E0A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill, Stanford University Press did a book on American Narrow Gauge that = covers all lines that ever existed and what happened to them. It is a fairly academic tome but has vast amounts of = information. regards Patrick Grace ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lewis J. Matt PhD=20 To: PRR-Talk LIST ; Bill Laird=20 Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 2:44 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Narrow Gauge Operations Bill: The Waynesburg and Washington was Pennsy's only operating 3 foot = narrow gage railroad and was never changed to standard gage. It ran in = southwestern PA between Washington and Waynesburg, both towns are = located along Interstate 79. The roadbed is still in existence along = with all the bridges and can be walked. Many of the structures are = still in place and in good repair, being used by local farmers who have = "claimed" the right of way on their land. The right of way is still = owned in total by a holding company in Ohio(?). I would like to see this RR rebuilt as a light rail and connect the = existing Pittsburgh light rail, located in North Washington, and run = through Waynesburg to Morgantown W Va. A Baldwin 2-6-0 w/tender from the W&W is on display at the Waynesburg = Historical Society, just minutes from I 79. This loco looks like the = Bachman On30 (or is it the other way around????). Jim Weinshanker is the resident expert on the W&W and is currently = writing a book on the subject. It is scheduled for printing very soon. = Contact Gary Kohler of the Maine 2 foot publications m2fq@aol.com for = details on availability etc. This book will have all new, unpublished = photos. There is also a periodical about the W&W published by Jim. Lew How long a minute is depends on what side of the bathroom door you're = on. Synergistic Solutions: Alternative, Sustainable Waste Management and = Energy Systems. Advocating water for life through sustainable = agriculture, sustainable toilets, sustainable gray water systems and = sustainable green construction. Lewis J. Matt III, Ph.D., C.S.E.O., B.O.C.A.I. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bill Laird=20 To: Talk PRR=20 Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 9:10 AM Subject: [PRR] PRR Narrow Gauge Operations What narrow gauge operations took place on the Pennsy? I am aware = of the interchange with the East Broad Top. Were there interchanges = with other narrow gauge lines? Did the Pennsy operate any narrow gauge = track or equipment? Bill Laird Canyon Lake, TX Building 2 1/2" scale NG equipment to opeate on 7 1/2" gauge track ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C32946.C2C8E0A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bill,
 
Stanford University Press did a book on = American=20 Narrow Gauge that covers all lines that ever existed and what=20 happened
to them. It is a fairly academic tome = but has vast=20 amounts of information.
 
regards
 
Patrick Grace
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Lewis J. = Matt PhD=20
To: PRR-Talk LIST ; Bill=20 Laird
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 = 2:44=20 PM
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Narrow = Gauge=20 Operations

Bill:
 
The Waynesburg and Washington was = Pennsy's only=20 operating 3 foot narrow gage railroad and was never changed to = standard=20 gage.  It ran in southwestern PA between Washington and = Waynesburg, both=20 towns are located along Interstate 79.  The roadbed is still = in=20 existence along with all the bridges and can be walked.  Many of = the=20 structures are still in place and in good repair, being used by local = farmers=20 who have "claimed" the right of way on their land.  The right of = way is=20 still owned in total by a holding company in Ohio(?).
 
I would like to see this RR rebuilt = as a light=20 rail and connect the existing Pittsburgh light rail, located=20 in North Washington, and run through Waynesburg to = Morgantown W=20 Va.
 
A Baldwin 2-6-0 w/tender from the = W&W is on=20 display at the Waynesburg Historical Society, just minutes from I = 79. =20 This loco looks like the Bachman On30 (or is it the other way=20 around????).
 
Jim Weinshanker is the resident = expert on the=20 W&W and is currently writing a book on the subject.  It is = scheduled=20 for printing very soon.  Contact Gary Kohler of the Maine 2 foot=20 publications m2fq@aol.com for = details=20 ct on availability etc.  This book will have all new,=20 unpublished photos.  There is also a=20 periodical about the W&W published by Jim.
 
Lew
 
 
 
How long a minute is depends on what side of the bathroom door = you're=20 on.
 
Synergistic Solutions: Alternative, Sustainable Waste Management = and=20 Energy Systems.  Advocating water for life through sustainable=20 agriculture,  sustainable toilets,  sustainable gray water = systems=20 and  sustainable green construction.
Lewis J. Matt III, Ph.D., = C.S.E.O., B.O.C.A.I.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bill=20 Laird
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 = 9:10=20 AM
Subject: [PRR] PRR Narrow = Gauge=20 Operations

What narrow gauge operations took place on the=20 Pennsy?  I am aware of the interchange with the East Broad = Top. =20 Were there interchanges with other narrow gauge lines?  Did the = Pennsy=20 operate any narrow gauge track or equipment?
 
Bill Laird
Canyon Lake, TX
Building 2 1/2" scale NG equipment to opeate on = 7 1/2"=20 gauge track
 
------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C32946.C2C8E0A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Bruce" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Narrow Gauge Operations Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:39:05 -0700 The Three Rivers Narrow Gauge Historical Society had its annual meeting last year in Waynesburg, PA, complete with motorcade tour of the right of way. The only standard gauge remaining on the W&W right of way now is basically rails in pavement here and there in both Waynesburg and Washington. The former Monongahela line to Bailey Mine parallels the W&W right of way but does not occupy it. The Washington depot still exists and is in use as a storage building for a building supply house. This depot is quite impressive and shares, with some other PRR stations, very European detail, such as the steel or iron latticework supporting the platform roofs. ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert netzlof" To: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" ; "PRR-Talk LIST" ; "Bill Laird" Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Narrow Gauge Operations > --- "Lewis J. Matt PhD" wrote: > > The Waynesburg and Washington was Pennsy's only operating 3 foot > > narrow gage railroad and was never changed to standard gage. > > Not so, on two counts. > > 1) The Ohio River and Western (Belaire to Zanesville) was narrow > gauge and did operate from 1912 to 1931 as a subsidiary of PRR. See > "American Narrow Gauge Railroads", George W. Hilton, Stanford > University Press, 1990. > > 2) Last I looked, which was about 25 years ago, there was standard > gauge track on the W&W right of way. Granted, very strange track, > with ties 4 to 5 feet apart on trestles. Toward the end of > "operation", traffic consisted of a truck fitted with flanged wheels > which made regular trips from between Washington and Waynesburg. > > > > ===== > Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). > http://calendar.yahoo.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Doug Drew Subject: [PRR] RE: PRR-Talk Digest - 06/02/03 Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 15:59:05 -0400 Martin Skrzetuszewski wrote: > Sadly the ($12.95?) book seems to >command a used price in excess of $150!!. Holy-Oke Massachusetts! (A "Tom Terrific" reference, how many of you remember?) Gee, I picked my copy up during the closeout sale at one of the Great Train Stores (in Holyoke, actually). Cover was a bit scuffed up, but the price was right, half-price IIRC. $6.50, you can pay more than that for a magazine full of ads... WHERE are they getting that kind of price for this book? Ebay? An example of "irrational exuberance"... I bought it as I had seen so little published about REA (I think it was a collection of articles originally published in Model Railroading magazine), but the book itself had pen and ink sketches of REA's facilities, rail and highway equipment and the like, and not very good ones at that, IMHO. I remember reading somewhere that the author didn't want to pay for rights to use actual photos, so he illustrated copies of the photos by hand! Doug Drew ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Narrow Gauge Operations Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 13:32:19 -0700 As far as I know, there was only one narrow gauge road that did this. However, it was the East Broad Top (who interchanged with the PRR at Mount Union) so we can model it! As I remember it, sometime back when the world was entirely black and white, MR (or was it Model Trains?) did an article on this operation. Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ On Mon, 02 Jun 2003 14:37:20 -0400 John Frantz wrote: > Gents, > > If I recall correctly, some narrow gauge railroads > actually switched trucks on cars so they wouldn't have to > transfer loads in a standard car to a narrow gauge car. I > think they used a crane to necessitate this procedure, > but i don't remember. It would be an interesting practice > to model. > John > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 16:54:58 -0400 From: Bill Subject: Re: [PRR] Haltoona LAMAassoc@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 6/2/03 8:24:47 AM, bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com writes: > > << No as in Payoli, Lannnnnnncaster, Hairrrrrisburg, Lewissssssstown, Mount > Union, Tyrone, Halllllltoona, Johnstown, Latrobe, Greensburg, East > Libbbbberty, and Pittsburgh. >> > > My memories are fading, but I never remember a passenger trainman calling > "Payoli!" > > It was ALWAYS, "Payoli Payoli!" He always said it twice and if you were not > from around here, you'd assume it was just another town with a double name like > "Walla Walla." > > Regards, Marty If it was announced in Philly, it might have been Payola. Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Narrow Gauge Operations Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 21:09:52 +0000 John Armstrong did an East Broadtop layout in MR also. The MT. Union facility was prominent in the plan. I want to remember it being somewhere in the late 70's that it was published. > As far as I know, there was only one narrow gauge road that > did this. However, it was the East Broad Top (who > interchanged with the PRR at Mount Union) so we can model > it! As I remember it, sometime back when the world was > entirely black and white, MR (or was it Model Trains?) did > an article on this operation. > > Bill Daniels > Tucson, AZ > > On Mon, 02 Jun 2003 14:37:20 -0400 > John Frantz wrote: > > Gents, > > > > If I recall correctly, some narrow gauge railroads > > actually switched trucks on cars so they wouldn't have to > > transfer loads in a standard car to a narrow gauge car. I > > think they used a crane to necessitate this procedure, > > but i don't remember. It would be an interesting practice > > to model. > > John > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:13:36 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Narrow Gauge Operations --- billd@gci-net.com wrote: > As far as I know, there was only one narrow gauge road that > did this. However, it was the East Broad Top (who > interchanged with the PRR at Mount Union) so we can model > it! As I remember it, sometime back when the world was > entirely black and white, MR (or was it Model Trains?) did > an article on this operation. > On Mon, 02 Jun 2003 14:37:20 -0400 > John Frantz wrote: > > If I recall correctly, some narrow gauge railroads > > actually switched trucks on cars so they wouldn't have to > > transfer loads in a standard car to a narrow gauge car. I > > think they used a crane... The East Broad Top did use a crane, mainly because the crane was there. It had originally been built by a logging company to transfer logs from narrow to standard gauge cars. EBT used it in their transfer of standard gauge car bodies to narrow gauge trucks. The EBT continued to do it much more recently that others. However, EBT weren't the only folks who did it. The practice seems to have been more common in the late 19th century than later. There is one account somewhere (don't remember where) involving an wreck precipitated by moving an Erie cattle car, and that in the days when the Erie was 6 foot gauge with car widths to match, over a 3 foot gauge line in northern PA. When the Ligonier Valley RR was still the Latrobe and Ligonier RR and 3 foot gauge, it had a car transfer facility at Latrobe, said to be the first of its kind. See Rehor's "The Nickel Plate Story" for some comments and drawings of the apparatus, in connection with NG lines in Ohio, and a footnote regarding the Ligonier Valley installation. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jim Weinschenker" Subject: [PRR] PRR narrow gauge Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 18:10:02 -0400 Hi folks... Jim Weinschenker here...reporting in on my railroad...the Waynesburg & Washington RR. The PRR purchased the W&W in 1885 as a result of a stock proxy battle with the B&O. The W&W ran under its own flag until 1920 when the Pennsy reorganized and relettered all W&W equipment "PENNSYLVANIA". The line was standard gauged in 1943/1944 with only a single test run under steam. A Ford railtruck as well as Fairmont type speeder cars serviced the line up until the early 1970s. The only surviving locomotive from the seven Moguls is second #4 (9684), an American Locomotive/Cooke Works product. It is currently housed at the Greene County Museum in Waynesburg and is awaiting funds for restoration to operating condition. At the end of all steam operations in April 1933, the W&W sent a few gondolas to the Ohio River & Western for their use. Ed Cass published a photo of a W&W gon in his book, "Hidden Treasures". Contrary to popular belief, the two roads never exchanged locomotives. As my good friend Dr. Matt alluded to, my book will be released October 2003 and contains over 200 previously unpublished photos. I even have a photo of the construction company locomotive that regauged the line. It's shown dumping cinders to fill in Elm Street Trestle just outside of Washington. I am still taking pre-orders for the book. Hit the Light Iron Digest website to order or hit the narrowtracks website to see my baby...Loco #4. Feel free to contact me should you have any further questions on the W&W. Thanks for your time..... JIM Jim Weinschenker 775 Race Street Waynesburg, PA 15370 M2FQ Publications, Accounts Manager http://www.lightirondigest.com/ http://www.narrowtracks.com/wwrr/index.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 18:40:20 -0400 From: Al Buchan Subject: RE: [PRR] Haltoona Two of my favorites on the PRR were the trainmen's announcements - Haver de grass for Havre de Grace and Odington for Odenton both on ML PHL-WAS And my all time favorite trainmen's announcement - Fellows Balls for Bellows Falls (on the CV) Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Chrisandbelton2@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 18:50:23 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRR-Talk Digest - 06/02/03 --part1_1f1.a0c8003.2c0d2eaf_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are a scant few prototype photos in the book -- mostly taken by the author, and a larger collection of photos of models -- again, mostly built by/taken by the author. Still, I think it's a valuable primer for the student of the REA from inception to end. And it does include some equipment references, station layouts and consist/routing information that is quite valuable. And if you can get a copy for $6 - $15 I think that's reasonable. Chris Baker #1918 --part1_1f1.a0c8003.2c0d2eaf_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There are a scant few prototype photos in the book --=20= mostly taken by the author, and a larger collection of photos of models -- a= gain, mostly built by/taken by the author.  Still, I think it's a valua= ble primer for the student of the REA from inception to end.  And it do= es include some equipment references, station layouts and consist/routing in= formation that is quite valuable.  And if you can get a copy for $6 - $= 15 I think that's reasonable.

Chris Baker  #1918 --part1_1f1.a0c8003.2c0d2eaf_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 19:53:18 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Other Road's head-end cars In a message dated 6/2/03 11:57:35 AM Central Daylight Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: << Sounds like it time for the publisher to do another printing! >> Or for the potential buyer to just hang on. For example, the Elmira Branch book is still listed used at 145-175 dollars on Amazon, etc. However, I got mine for about 20% of that on eBay. The Roseman book is only worth $150 if someone is willing to pay that. I have been outbid by people paying $100 for paper items and got the item for $15 a month later. Be patient. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 19:00:01 -0500 From: "Rev. Bob 'Bob' Crispen" Subject: Re: [PRR] Haltoona Al Buchan said on Monday, June 2, 2003 at 5:40:20 PM: > Two of my favorites on the PRR were the trainmen's announcements - > Haver de grass for Havre de Grace Having been near that part of Murriland, I recall that, rather than HAWV ruh duh GRAWSS, it's more like HAV-er-dee Grayce. Of course a lot of wooder has flowed under the bridge since those days. -- Rev. Bob "Bob" Crispen bob at crispen dot org "Novell has done us a tremendous service, by stomping upon an obnoxious parasite." - Bruce Perens ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 19:17:43 -0500 Subject: [PRR] RE: Haltoona From: Frederick Ripley Has anyone mentioned Terry Hut, IN? (as my dad says PRR conductors pronounced it in the 1950's). Fred R. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CENTGA@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 20:48:03 EDT Subject: [PRR] Repack Stencils --part1_1a0.15c153b0.2c0d4a43_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit While looking through some freight cars photos I noticed what appears to be a PRR repack stencil. As best as I can tell it reads: RPKG EV 2-16-51 PRR. Can anyone verify that this is a PRR location and if so where? I just thought it unusual to find a PRR stencil on this particular car. Todd Horton --part1_1a0.15c153b0.2c0d4a43_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable While looking through some freight cars photos I notic= ed what appears to be a PRR repack stencil. As best as I can tell it reads:=20= RPKG  EV  2-16-51  PRR. Can anyone verify that this is a PRR=20= location and if so where? I just thought it unusual to find a PRR stencil on= this particular car. Todd Horton --part1_1a0.15c153b0.2c0d4a43_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: [PRR] Branchline X43C's Shadow Keystone Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:32:51 -0400 I was just about to start assembly on the 4 PRR X43C boxcars I have in the Shadow Keystone. I noticed all the cars had "Return to Indianapolis Indiana" and the numbers 195 (pool assignment?) above the Pennsylvania. Before I build them I was wondering if anyone could tell me what assigned service these cars were used in. I would like to find out if they would make a regular appearance on my corner of the Pennsy. Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:39:51 EDT Subject: [PRR] RPC as an alternative for headend equipment... --part1_186.1aa102d0.2c0d5667_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/31/03 1:38:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: [PRR] Other Road's head-end cars > From: "Martin Skrzetuszewski" > Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 08:02:57 +0100 > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C3274B.0C591120 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Thanks for the recommendation. Sadly the ($12.95?) book seems to command = > a used price in excess of $150!!. > > Regards, > Martin Skrzetuszewski > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: Chrisandbelton2@aol.com=20 > To: j.bruce@gte.net ; martinskrzetuszewski@lineone.net ; = > PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 > Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2003 3:19 AM > Subject: Re: [PRR] Other Road's head-end cars > > > I recommend Vic Roseman's book "Railway Express: An Overview" [Rocky = > Mountain Publishing, Inc. - 1992] as an excellent starting point for car = > assignments and routings. The Eastern railroads -- including the P.R.R. = > - are prominently featured. > > Chris Baker #1918=20 > There's more on headend equipment (PRR and other) in various issues of the Railway Prototype Cyclopedia. See especially Issue 6: BX Express Box Cars Issue 7: BR & BS Express Refrigerator Cars (includes REA, R50b) Issue 8:editExpress Box Cars - Addendum These are in stock, well-illustrated, and have service-descriptive material in addition to RPC's usual exhaustive illustration and mechanical details, and their rosters of car series, builder, built date, etc. In this particular case, Issue 7 is just about as useful to a modeler as the Roseman REA book and has lots more pix of prototype equipment. The photo reproduction is also much better. I recommend the RPC series as a good way for modelers to drink from the wonderful world of "prototype car information" without drowning in minutae. The issues retail at about $21, but I source mine from Dave's Books at gnrailroader@yahoo.com. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_186.1aa102d0.2c0d5667_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 5/31/03 1= :38:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:


Subject: Re: [PRR] Other Road's= head-end cars
From: "Martin Skrzetuszewski" <martinskrzetuszewski@lineone.net>
Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 08:02:57 +0100

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=3D_NextPart_000_0008_01C3274B.0C591120
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks for the recommendation. Sadly the ($12.95?) book seems to command=20= =3D
a used price in excess of $150!!.

Regards,
Martin Skrzetuszewski
  ----- Original Message -----=3D20
  From: Chrisandbelton2@aol.com=3D20
  To: j.bruce@gte.net ; martinskrzetuszewski@lineone.net ; =3D
PRR-Talk@dsop.com=3D20
  Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2003 3:19 AM
  Subject: Re: [PRR] Other Road's head-end cars


  I recommend Vic Roseman's book "Railway Express: An Overview"  [= Rocky =3D
Mountain Publishing, Inc. - 1992] as an excellent starting point for car=20= =3D
assignments and routings.  The Eastern railroads -- including the P.R.R= . =3D
- are prominently featured.

  Chris Baker  #1918=3D20


There's more on headend equipment (PRR and other) in various issues of the R= ailway Prototype Cyclopedia.  See especially
Issue 6: BX Express Box Cars
Issue 7: BR & BS Express Refrigerator Cars (includes REA, R50b)
Issue 8: BX Express Box Cars - Addendum

These are in stock, well-illustrated, and have service-descriptive material=20= in addition to RPC's usual exhaustive illustration and mechanical details, a= nd their rosters of car series, builder, built date, etc.  In this part= icular case, Issue 7 is just about as useful to a modeler as the Roseman REA= book and has lots more pix of prototype equipment.  The photo reproduc= tion is also much better.

I recommend the RPC series as a good way for modelers to drink from the wond= erful world of "prototype car information" without drowning in minutae. = ; The issues retail at about $21, but I source mine from Dave's Books at gnr= ailroader@yahoo.com.

Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_186.1aa102d0.2c0d5667_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:39:53 EDT Subject: [PRR] Again, RPC --part1_bc.38eeaff5.2c0d5669_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/31/03 1:38:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Asking for assistance please? > From: "edmund burbage" > Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 09:25:12 -0400 > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C32756.89F03F40 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Is there anyone out there who can point me in the right direction of = > Railroad Freight Car markings and their meanings in book form. > > What I need is an explanation of the weights, built date etc stenciled = > on the sides of Freight cars for an article I want to write for our NRHS = > Club's Bulletin (Newsletter). > > Thank you, > > > Lee Burbage > No/1943 > PRRT&HS > You will find a good article on this in Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Volume 4, along with many pictures of application of the rules. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_bc.38eeaff5.2c0d5669_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 5/31/03 1= :38:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:


Subject: Asking for assistance=20= please?
From: "edmund burbage" <leeprrswitchkey@msn.com>
Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 09:25:12 -0400

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=3D_NextPart_000_0006_01C32756.89F03F40
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Is there anyone out there who can point me in the right direction of =3D
Railroad Freight Car markings and their meanings in book form.

What I need is an explanation of the weights, built date etc stenciled =3D on the sides of Freight cars for an article I want to write for our NRHS=20= =3D
Club's Bulletin (Newsletter).

Thank you,


Lee Burbage
No/1943
PRRT&HS


You will find a good article on this in Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Volume=20= 4, along with many pictures of application of the rules.

Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_bc.38eeaff5.2c0d5669_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:39:57 EDT Subject: [PRR] Layout designs for PRR Lines West and other locales --part1_144.12bc55d3.2c0d566d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/31/03 12:47:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pennsy@sover.net writes: > If you feel there are selected points that should receive special > consideration, I would appreciate your input. At this time Columbus is > looking like the starting point the planning,ie. many choices!! > Have followed the threads on the Penn Texas>>Manhattan Ltd., as well as the > topical mention of Columbus as main area of modeling. If anything comes to > mind, please send a note, it will be incorporated in the planning. > Many thanks>>>Fred in Vt. > Hi Fred, As a modeler for 40 years or so, as well as having spent time at the remains major sites on Pennsy's Lines West, you will find that I have a healthy respect for the hugeness of most of PRR's mainline facilities. You've outlined three or four different PRR routes, any one of which would be a monstrous handful even in N scale with plenty of space. As you may have realized from some of my posting, I have concluded that nobody has room for even one faithfully-reproduced PRR division point yard, at least not in HO. The choices seem to be: 1. model a secondary line, like the main ADAMS to NEWMAN (Fort Wayne to Richmond) 2. model some small towns on a main, one of which has a local yard to exchange blocks with through trains (I did this last layout) 3. cheat and model just one end of a major yard facility. That's my current proposal for modeling Columbus -- essentially model the part between two major highway overpasses. I tend to count the complexity of a model railroad in the number of switches used (my mentor used to bounce back yard track plans if they used more than 13 switches). As layout designers/builders, our job is to trade off complexity (thus cost and pain) for believability. Thus, each of us needs to evaluate: 1. What freight and/or passenger traffic is the most attractive to us? Dayton-Xenia-Columbus is my hometown and college experience. 2. What ultimate space could be used to tell this story? I have a new 2