Re: [PRR] How far east did those T1s roam??

Frederick Ripley <fjr@mchsi.com> wrote:

Steve H. wrote:

I don't have an ETT in front of me but I am reasonably certain that Wooster
Hill was the ruling eastward grade between Crestline and Conway, 0.88%, I
think. Maybe your engineer friend was thinking of the sag out of Mace up to
Reedurban or the long climb up Garfield Hill, which starts in Canton, levels
off a bit through Alliance then picks up again just east of the Alliance
westward home signal.

Although the sight and sound of eastbounds dragging and squealing around the
curves on Wooster Hill was (and probably still is) a wonderful thing, I have
good memories of watching/shooting/chasing underpowered heavy Conrail
eastbounds struggling towards Garfield with pushers (Alco's, geeps and GP38s
in the early CR era, GP38-2s in the later CR years) past Fairhope and
Sebring.

------

I have also enjoyed watching/photographing trains on Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. --0-2009903856-1051992044=:90708-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 13:37:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Vondruska Subject: western ohio grades Re: [PRR] eastern OH grades --0-1634206898-1051994272=:10940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Gize, Saw a reference earlier this week to Murray Hill, a topographical feature near Clement Yard on the eastern edge of Dayton. Clement was also the name given the grade-separated crossing of the Panhandle's Dayton, Xenia & Belpre RR Columbus Division main by the B&O Dayton east cutoff that connected the DX&P with the PRR's Highland Route, the flood-proof connection between Dayton and Cincinnati via the Dayton, Lebanon & Cincinnati and the Cincinnati, Lebanon & Northern, both built before 1885 as narrow guage lines. Clement is located on the north side of the U.S. 35 freeway between S. Smithville Road and Woodman Drive about a mile southwest of the westernmost edge of Wright-Patterson AFB. It lies at the summit of formidable grades accending either flank of a lateral moraine on the eastern side the Great Miami River Valley. According to PRR track charts, the grade to the west of Clement, between Dutoit Street, a block east of the line's junction with Dayton Union Terminal Ass ley wrote: Steve H. wrote: I don't have an ETT in front of me but I am reasonably certain that Wooster Hill was the ruling eastward grade between Crestline and Conway, 0.88%, I think. Maybe your engineer friend was thinking of the sag out of Mace up to Reedurban or the long climb up Garfield Hill, which starts in Canton, levels off a bit through Alliance then picks up again just east of the Alliance westward home signal. Although the sight and sound of eastbounds dragging and squealing around the curves on Wooster Hill was (and probably still is) a wonderful thing, I have good memories of watching/shooting/chasing underpowered heavy Conrail eastbounds struggling towards Garfield with pushers (Alco's, geeps and GP38s in the early CR era, GP38-2s in the later CR years) past Fairhope and Sebring. ------ I have also enjoyed watching/photographing trains on both these grades. The neat thing about the latter (Garfield) is that in later CR days it was is was much busier than Wooster Hill (there is even a bigger disparity in traffic today between the two), due to Chicago traffic joining at Alliance. In the late 80's/early-mid 90's, many of the bigger EB's from Crestline would leave pushers on all the way to Conway, to help on both these grades. It seems to me that the crest of Garfield hill was east of Garfield, just to the west of the signal bridge at MP 73.5 (west of Salem). Looking west at this location, you could see the "summit", and big EB's were often really working, down to 25mph or so. New crossovers were installed at this location in 1994, which meant the end of the PRR signals. Shortly thereafter, the entire line received cab signals from Alliance to Conway. Fred R. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. --0-1634206898-1051994272=:10940 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Gize,

   Saw a reference earlier this week to Murray Hill, a topographical feature near Clement Yard on the eastern edge of Dayton.

   Clement was also the name given the grade-separated crossing of the Panhandle's Dayton, Xenia & Belpre RR Columbus Division main by the B&O Dayton east cutoff that connected the DX&P with the PRR's Highland Route, the flood-proof connection between Dayton and Cincinnati via the Dayton, Lebanon & Cincinnati and the Cincinnati, Lebanon & Northern, both built before 1885 as narrow guage lines.

   Clement is located on the north side of the U.S. 35 freeway between S. Smithville Road and Woodman Drive about a mile southwest of the westernmost edge of Wright-Patterson AFB. It lies at the summit of formidable grades accending either flank of a lateral moraine on the eastern side the Great Miami River Valley.

   According to PRR track charts, the grade to the west of Clement, between Dutoit Street, a block east of the line's junction with Dayton Union Terminal Association trackage and Waynetown Tower, and Smithville Road was nearly two percent. Now part of an industrial spur servicing the Delphi (nee DELCO) auto parts plant in eastern Kettering. I became familiar with this grade nearly 35 years ago while attending a art school located next to the tracks. At that time the line was double tracked with clear signs that a third track was once lcoated there. Old timers told me that Clement, which I knew only as an industrial staging yard ahd been once used as a helper yard in the days of steam.

   The going wasn't much better east of Clement. Between there and Zimmerman in the heart of today's Beavercreek where the lien crossed North Fairfield Road, the grade was greater than one percent. This is one of the main reasons that Conrail abandoned this line in 1984 (last through train Jan. 10, 1986)

This was not the steepest grade in the supposedly flat Columbus division. I've heard sketchy tales of turntables to turn helpers west of Urbana, Ohio, on the Columbus, Chicago & Indiana Central before it became the the double-tracked Panhanlde "freight line" (it carried only one named passenger train, The Union). linking Columbus and Chicago.

   Sparse information in the 1927 PRR Comapny history refers to redcutions of grades between Urbana and Piqua about 20 miles west. In this area the line crossed the valleys of the Great Miami and Mad Rivers with grades as great as four percent.

Tom V.

was nearly two percent

ley <fjr@mchsi.com> wrote:

Steve H. wrote:

I don't have an ETT in front of me but I am reasonably certain that Wooster
Hill was the ruling eastward grade between Crestline and Conway, 0.88%, I
think. Maybe your engineer friend was thinking of the sag out of Mace up to
Reedurban or the long climb up Garfield Hill, which starts in Canton, levels
off a bit through Alliance then picks up again just east of the Alliance
westward home signal.

Although the sight and sound of eastbounds dragging and squealing around the
curves on Wooster Hill was (and probably still is) a wonderful thing, I have
good memories of watching/shooting/chasing underpowered heavy Conrail
eastbounds struggling towards Garfield with pushers (Alco's, geeps and GP38s
in the early CR era, GP38-2s in the later CR years) past Fairhope and
Sebring.

------

I have also enjoyed watching/photographing trains on Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. --0-1634206898-1051994272=:10940-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 13:56:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Vondruska Subject: [PRR] Re: [PennsyWest] Western Region --0-397905539-1051995365=:82377 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The bridge crosses the Little Miami River Valley, yup, the whole valley, at Fort Ancient just east of Lebanon, Ohio. When you're canoeing on the Little Miami or biking on the Little Miami Scenic Trail that follows the Panhandle's Cincinnati Division Main (only the PennCentral called it the C&X branch. It was the Little Miami RR, a leased line right up to Conrail) Interstate 71 is a tiny, noisy line in the sky. Tom V. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. --0-397905539-1051995365=:82377 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
The bridge crosses the Little Miami River Valley, yup, the whole valley, at Fort Ancient just east of Lebanon, Ohio. When you're canoeing on the Little Miami or biking on the Little Miami Scenic Trail that follows the Panhandle's Cincinnati Division Main (only the PennCentral called it the C&X branch. It was the Little Miami RR, a leased line right up to Conrail) Interstate 71 is a tiny, noisy line in the sky.

Tom V.
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. --0-397905539-1051995365=:82377-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 03 May 2003 20:11:07 -0400 From: Vince Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Western Region --------------F95265B3BC48F3F76A076604 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Lee I have a book " Firing on the Pennsy" 1943-1947 by Paul C Dietz copyright 2001 . He evidently was 87 when he wrote the book , which I enjoyed . If there was a way for you to meet this man , I'm sure he would be interesting for the railroad experiance , and all the other things he has accomplished in his life . You can reach him at:Deitz Publishing Company ,Box 1237 , Beverly OH 45715 . It would be great to hear if you can hook up with man Good luck Vince Miller LeeRainey@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/30/2003 12:49:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, > RickTipton@aol.com writes: > > > >> I am in the "research" phase of doing a layout circa 1944 in Ohio, >> the Canton >> > District from east of Alliance to west of Orville....4 track >> mains, bridges, >> > crossings with W&LE, B&O, two other PRR branches.......loads of >> industry and a >> > huge roundhouse/yard..... >> > You guys consider Ohio Midwest or??? >> > > I grew up in Canton and certainly consider Ohio to be the midwest. And > for those of you who think Ohio is flat, west of Canton there was a > grade through Wooster that required helper service. I used to go down > to the depot while in college in Wooster and visit with railroaders > there and watch the helpers run light downgrade. An engineer who > usually worked the turnaround local out of Wooster told me the grade > was the worst grade between X and Y -- where X and Y are cities whose > names I have completely forgotten, but which at the time seemed quite > distant. > > Lee Rainey --------------F95265B3BC48F3F76A076604 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit       Dear Lee
            I have a book " Firing on the Pennsy" 1943-1947 by Paul C Dietz copyright 2001 . He evidently was 87 when he wrote the book , which I enjoyed . If there was a way for you to meet this man , I'm sure he would be interesting for the railroad experiance , and all the other things he has accomplished in his life . You can reach him at:Deitz Publishing Company ,Box 1237 , Beverly OH 45715 . It would be great to hear if you can hook up with man
                              Good luck
                                 Vince Miller
LeeRainey@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 4/30/2003 12:49:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, RickTipton@aol.com writes:

I am in the "research" phase of doing a layout circa 1944 in Ohio, the Canton
> District from east of Alliance to west of Orville....4 track mains, bridges,
> crossings with W&LE, B&O, two other PRR branches.......loads of industry and a
> huge roundhouse/yard.....
> You guys consider Ohio Midwest or???

I grew up in Canton and certainly consider Ohio to be the midwest. And for those of you who think Ohio is flat, west of Canton there was a grade through Wooster that required helper service. I used to go down to the depot while in college in Wooster and visit with railroaders there and watch the helpers run light downgrade. An engineer who usually worked the turnaround local out of Wooster told me the grade was the worst grade between X and Y -- where X and Y are cities whose names I have completely forgotten, but which at the time seemed quite distant.
Lee Rainey
--------------F95265B3BC48F3F76A076604-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 00:42:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] Fleet of Modernism paint scheme Hello list, According to Blardone and Tilp's Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger Car Painting and Lettering, page 13, the Fleet of Modernism paint scheme was applied to some PRR cars between 1938-46. The book doesn't say how long the scheme lasted (ie until all cars were back in Tuscan red) after PRR stopped applying the scheme in 1946. How often were PRR passenger cars shopped and/or painted in the late 1940s? The answer to that question may help Rick and Andy pin down a date. Doug __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 00:47:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] Request for convention report Hello list, Would those of you lucky enough to attend the PRRT&HS convention post about it when you return home as you have in years past? For those of us unable to attend (due to work and/or geography), it would be most appreicated. How does the Westerfield X23 look? Doug __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Robert A. Kessler" Subject: [PRR] RE: end of FOM paint scheme Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 10:38:34 -0700 In a message dated 5/3/03 1:12:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Does anyone know the year the PRR abandoned the FOM scheme? A question > has arisen on the Passenger Car list. It is claimed that the ACL > painted cars in that scheme in 1949 for service in the Southwind. I > thought FOM was dead by then. > -- > Regards, > > Andy Miller > asmiller@mitre.org According to a time-line in PRR Passenger Car Painting and Lettering, Blardone and Tilp, the "Fleet of Modernism" paint scheme was applied to selected cars between early 1938 and early 1946. According to the same source, use of the post-war scheme with one (initially gold leaf) stripe above the windows, two below began in mid-1947. Obviously the FOM cars were not repainted immediately. The Southwind cars would have remained in the FOM scheme until repainting was needed. As a kid in Newark, NJ I was aware of the transition and used to look for the FOM cars when I was in Penn Station. I would guess that it was around 1950 when I saw one for the last time. Bob Kessler Robertke@attbi.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Request for convention report Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 14:41:13 -0400 I had a great time at the convention. Had the wife and daughter tagging along so I skipped the tours this year so I can't report on them. But two talks that I enjoyed the most were Elden Gatwood's gave a talk about modeling PRR gons and Jack Consoli's talk about PRR F-units. Jack's talk is a precursor to a Keystone article on F units which is scheduled to be in an upcoming Keystone. I picked up a Westerfield X23 and it looks gorgeous to me! It has Extremely fine detail and since it has a one piece body with much of the detail already applied, it shouldn't be too bad to assemble. Definitely looks like it was worth the wait! I also picked up some stuff that will make it to my website as time permits.. Rob http://prr.railfan.net -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Doug Kisala Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 3:48 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Request for convention report Hello list, Would those of you lucky enough to attend the PRRT&HS convention post about it when you return home as you have in years past? For those of us unable to attend (due to work and/or geography), it would be most appreicated. How does the Westerfield X23 look? Doug __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 16:53:21 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Need Vendor contact Help List. Need to contact Dave from Daves Books,who was at the far end of the vendors room. I didn't get a list of his books that would have contact information. Need a mailing address,email address,phone number or all three. Glad to have talked to all that I meet walikg around and the ones who stop to talk at my table. Thanks. Pat McKinney [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Rent DVDs from home. Over 14,500 titles. Free Shipping & No Late Fees. Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/BVVfoB/hP.FAA/uetFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 16:53:21 EDT Subject: [PRR] Need Vendor contact Help --part1_141.10bd3d9f.2be6d7c1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List. Need to contact Dave from Daves Books,who was at the far end of the vendors room. I didn't get a list of his books that would have contact information. Need a mailing address,email address,phone number or all three. Glad to have talked to all that I meet walikg around and the ones who stop to talk at my table. Thanks. Pat McKinney --part1_141.10bd3d9f.2be6d7c1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List.
       Need to contact Dave from Daves Books,w= ho was at the far end of the vendors room. I didn't get a list of his books=20= that would have contact information. Need a mailing address,email address,ph= one number or all three.
Glad to have talked to all that I meet walikg around and the ones who= stop to talk at my table. Thanks.

Pat McKinney --part1_141.10bd3d9f.2be6d7c1_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 17:02:38 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] Need Vendor contact Help Pat McKinney asked: Need to contact Dave from Dave's Books,who was at the far end of the vendors room. I didn't get a list of his books that would have contact information. Need a mailing address, email address, phone number or all three. Dave Hickox Dave's Books PO Box 137 Delaware OH 43015-0137 (740)-363-9108 (7-11 PM EST) gnrailroader@yahoo.com Ben Hom ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/KXUxcA/fNtFAA/uetFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] Need Vendor contact Help Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 17:02:38 -0400 Pat McKinney asked: Need to contact Dave from Dave's Books,who was at the far end of the vendors room. I didn't get a list of his books that would have contact information. Need a mailing address, email address, phone number or all three. Dave Hickox Dave's Books PO Box 137 Delaware OH 43015-0137 (740)-363-9108 (7-11 PM EST) gnrailroader@yahoo.com Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 17:20:59 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Request for convention report From: Jerry Britton On 5/4/03 3:47 AM, "Doug Kisala" wrote: > Would those of you lucky enough to attend the PRRT&HS > convention post about it when you return home as you > have in years past? > > For those of us unable to attend (due to work and/or > geography), it would be most appreicated. > > How does the Westerfield X23 look? > Got home 15 minutes ago. If nobody does before, I'll post something in a few hours. Definitely an excellent convention! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 17:22:01 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Need Vendor contact Help From: Jerry Britton > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3134913721_23163176 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 5/4/03 4:53 PM, "PKMac101@aol.com" wrote: > Need to contact Dave from Daves Books,who was at the far end of th= e > vendors room. I didn't get a list of his books that would have contact > information. Need a mailing address,email address,phone number or all thr= ee. > Glad to have talked to all that I meet walikg around and the ones who s= top > to talk at my table. Thanks. >=20 >=20 Similarly, anyone have a phone number for Bob=B9s Photo=B9s? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- --B_3134913721_23163176 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [PRR] Need Vendor contact Help On 5/4/03 4:53 PM, "PKMac101@aol.com" <PK= Mac101@aol.com> wrote:

   &nb= sp;  Need to contact Dave from Daves Books,who was at the far end = of the vendors room. I didn't get a list of his books that would have contac= t information. Need a mailing address,email address,phone number or all thre= e.
  Glad to have talked to all that I meet walikg around and the on= es who stop to talk at my table. Thanks.

Similarly, anyone have a phone number fo= r Bob’s Photo’s?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@pennsyrr.com &= nbsp;  Member, PRRT&HS

"Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of
Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana
products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossi= ngs",
the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "= Conrail-
Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "M= S", you are
providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit
our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com.
------------------------------Thank you!-----------------------------
--B_3134913721_23163176-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 17:28:06 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Vendor contact no longer needed List. I got Daves information and thank you to all that helped. Pat McKinney [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/KXUxcA/fNtFAA/uetFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 17:28:06 EDT Subject: [PRR] Vendor contact no longer needed --part1_1cb.8e85846.2be6dfe6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List. I got Daves information and thank you to all that helped. Pat McKinney --part1_1cb.8e85846.2be6dfe6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List.
       I got Daves information and thank you t= o all that helped.

Pat McKinney --part1_1cb.8e85846.2be6dfe6_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 18:05:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention Well, I had a great time. Finally got to put some faces to the names I see on PRR-Talk and FAX. I also spent more money than I was supposed to. "Bob's Photos" table is hard to walk away from. Overall, the PRR meet was very nice. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 18:50:11 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Convention Report From: "Jerry @ Pennsy" All, please amend this report as appropriate... The convention was excellent in many ways. The site was very accessible, just off I-95, close to the airport, etc. Vendor/banquet room was sufficient (even had a/c!). Guest rooms were fine. Drawback was three shaky elevators that had you feeling like you were riding in an MU car, except going up/down! Arrived with Dave Wartell around 10:30 a.m. on Thursday. Quite unexpectedly, the well-prepared Philly chapter was already registering attendees...and rooms were ready! The vendor room opened for setup at noon. Kudos to Philly on the vendor room. They had special badges for vendors and shoppers were not allowed in during setup time and it was enforced! A security guard was present around the clock. Thursday evening Bruce Smith rolled in. After the vendor room closed, many of us gathered in the lobby and chatted model railroad ops until sometime after 11. As a vendor, I didn't get to many sessions, but the feedback was excellent. Same with the tours at Amtrak and Juniata Terminal (thanks, Bennett!). I really appreciate those of you who purchased through Merchandise Service, though overall sales were only mediocre. I mention this only because I heard the same things from almost every vendor I spoke with. Bob's Photos was one of the few that seemed to do well. Many vendors left after Friday night. Business was slow Friday, so I opted to bag Friday night in the vendor room and lead a consist of three vehicles to several layouts. Among those along were Dave Wartel, Bruce Smith, Doug Gerin, John Frantz, Doug Nelson, Claus Schlund, Brian Butcher, Mike (sorry!), Bob Gallup, and Bill Lewis. Started at Charlie Corangi's in Newark, who does an absolutely awesome Harrisburg passenger scene set in the moonlight with a coat of snow on the ground. We next hit Bill Kachel's. His back yard was decorated with railroad signs including flashing crossbucks and a position light signal. There were two diesel horns that were connected to a compressor that were a "real blast"! Bill was described as the "Patron Saint of Model Catenary" and were were not let down. Wow! Good think those wires weren't really electrified with everyone salivating! Ken McCorry did open on Friday, though it wasn't shown in the program. We arrived at 10:45 to find that, other than us, there were only about a half dozen people there. Sure beat the heat and crowd of 70+ we're used to seeing there! Ken was available to answer a lot of questions from folks visiting for the first time. Thanks, Ken! Back to the hotel and bed! Saturday morning business meeting had no real surprises. Good news! Al Buchan took over as president. Chuck announced that the society will be, at some point, discontinuing centerfold prints as they are not selling. He announced what is in the pipeline for future issues. A thrill is that Jack Consoli authored an article that will be the entire Autumn 2003 issue on PRR's F Units. (My jaw hit the floor!) The next issue will feature PRR's two rail pipe fence, with three rail pipe fence covered next winter. Just kidding, I made that up! I closed up in the vendor room around 1 p.m. and attended Jack Consoli's F unit session, which was a preview of the Keystone article previously mentioned. For the first time I learned that the first set of F3 helpers had freight pilots. I think everyone came away with at least one new fact. Dinner was good and Al G. gave an excellent presentation on the Baldwin Locomotive Works, whose former Eddystone plant was RIGHT NEXT TO THE HOTEL!!! A ton of PRR art was on display. And a surprise to many was the unveiling of two 4' by 6' paintings from the 1939 Broadway Limited that Northern Central Chapter member Ken Murray had just acquired in recent weeks. He was in period dress and told a wonderful story "in character" as he unveiled them. Back to layout tours today. Bruce Smith joined Dave Wartell and I. We had breakfast out and then checked out a few of the main line stations west of ZOO. We were at Bryn Mawr when an eastbound Amtrak (Pennsylvanian?) came through at a about 60 mph. We were on the platform behind the yellow line, which put us only about three feet from the side of the train. What a rush! Surprised they allow this kind of speed vs. pedestrian access. Went to Ken Rideout's layout. He models the eastern slope in HO, doing about half of the same portion I am doing in N scale. He blew me away when he pulled out some photos of the Tunnel Hill blower, which he allowed me to photograph for my own use. These will be of great value in my own modeling. Thanks, Ken! Next took the guys down to Charlie Grant's in Wilmington. Does an excellent Washington Terminal, but the highlight is a working hump yard at Pot Yard. I'd been there before, but it was great to see the amazement on Bruce's and Dave's faces. Dropped Bruce off at the airport and headed home. Time to do laundry and start packing for next year in Cincy. What? You mean I have to wait 360 days or so? ;-( Another great convention with good times and good friends. Thank you all!!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 19:11:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Report Jerry, 2 items not covered. Did Ed Woodings have his completed Live Steam T1 finished and on display as he was hoping? The Model/Contest Room. Any interesting models on display and any results in the votings?.......Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 19:16:03 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Report From: "Jerry @ Pennsy" On Sunday, May 4, 2003, at 07:11 PM, Gary Mittner wrote: > > 2 items not covered. Did Ed Woodings have his completed Live Steam > T1 finished and on display as he was hoping? T1 was indeed there, as was a K5 and an A?. > > The Model/Contest Room. Any interesting models on display and any > results in the votings?.......Thanks, Gary There was an awesome diorama of a three stall roundhouse cutaway showing a T1 and another loco being serviced. HO scale. I believe this is what won "Best of Show". Claus Schlund and Doug Nelson took home their usual count of N scale awards. Ivan Frantz, a frequent winner in HO, seems to have passed the torch to his son, John, who won for an HO model. I don't recall the particulars of the winners and which entries were theirs, overall. Anyone? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 19:34:12 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Report Any comments on the Westerfield X23? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 19:38:33 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Report Jerry, thanks for an excellent summary that was long on facts and yet concise. One small note, Ken Murry's name is spelled without an "a." He's not on-line so he wouldn't have a way to speak up. And just a comment: While it's correct to identify him as a member of the society's NC Chapter, his most significant and impressive railroad preservation work has been carried out with the Lancaster Chapter of NRHS -- principally as project chairman of the GG1 4800 preservation committe, and later as project chairman of the Lemo (or "J") Tower preservation committee. He also had lesser roles in the GG1 4935 and 4859 projects, and of course did the lion's share of photography for my Crossroads of Commerce book on the life and work of PRR artist Grif Teller. Thanks, Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LAMAassoc@aol.com Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 19:45:55 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Report In a message dated 5/4/03 5:59:55 PM, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << Another great convention with good times and good friends. Thank you all!! >> Jerry - Thank you for the fine report of what sounds like a wonderful meeting. I was unable to attend but will certainly try in the future. I was most pleased to see that your report did not contain any suggestion that there was any drinking or carousing going on. These are things up with which I will not put. It was during my early six years on the Pennsy, riding in dining cars and lounge cars where the porters charged a high price for a libation, that I learned to always carry a pint of Jim Beam. We'd pass it around until it was empty and then, the really evildoers would play cards. Yes, it is true, they'd play cards for money. I carried a pint on business trips for many years after I left the Pennsy and remember a particularly tough meeting in Washington. We took the last Eastern Shuttle to NYC and found that there were no snacks or liquor kits on board. I had a pint in my carryon and passed it around just as I had many years earlier in those lounge cars. So, I'm pleased to see that there was no such goings on at your meeting. Thanks for the feedback. Regards, Marty ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 19:49:14 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Report From: "Jerry @ Pennsy" Very well received. Earliest version was not ready. On Sunday, May 4, 2003, at 07:34 PM, Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > Any comments on the Westerfield X23? > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 19:53:23 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Report From: "Jerry @ Pennsy" On Sunday, May 4, 2003, at 07:45 PM, LAMAassoc@aol.com wrote: > I was most pleased to see that your report did not contain any > suggestion > that there was any drinking or carousing going on. These are things up > with > which I will not put. > > So, I'm pleased to see that there was no such goings on at your > meeting. > Thanks for the feedback. > I am not aware of any drinking problems related to the PRRT&HS. There was, apparently, a small, unrelated group that overindulged. I don't think they caused any damage or noise, but Friday morning there was a drunk passed out in the hallway on the third floor. Police and medics were summoned, but I guess they returned him to his room as the gurney left empty. Irresponsible! But again, I don't believe this was related to the Society. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Report Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 20:09:30 -0400 Gents, It's good to be back after attending my first convention. I arrived around 10:00 with my father and hung out meeting people that i talk to here on the list as well as jumping from my dads sometimes overpowering shadow. I took the thursday trip to the Amtrak training center in Wilmington which was excellent. The engineering department supervisor was a great host. We heard many stories from the start of his employment as a hostler at Wilmington through his current assignment with Amtrak. Side note: The building is actually south of wilmington between the corridor and I-95. Anyway, In the simulator suite they had control stands for an F40, an P42, and an F59PHI. These were all class 2 simulators with a constant video. The only significant thing training wise is the signal tree. Though it was neat to sit with the control stands. The best part was the class 1 simulator for the Acela trainset. This had full 360 degree motion including the regular sway and bounce of a train. After running through the lower washington section of the corridor they switched to Providence, Mass. This provided interesting fun when we concluded the simulation by plowing a tractor trailer straddling a grade crossing. Friday morning, i took the trip to Bennet's Juniata Terminal: Fairhill Division. On the way to the terminal we were given an unplanned cultural tour of North Philadelphia since the bus driver managed to get semi-lost. All things conmsidered, once we arrived we were greeted with idling E8's and SW-1500's. The switchers were painted in Bennet's unmistakable JUNIATA paint scheme. The 120 and recentlt completed parlor/lounge car WARRIOR RIDGE were on display with the Pralor car open for exhibition. Coupled to the SW-1500's was an N5C in a east-west pool service scheme. Besides the road equipment, two mobile cranes were also on display for pictures. THANK YOU BENNET! Friday afternoon i attanded a session on Morris tower witch was delightfully given by a former operator. He had many unique experiences to tell. I also divulged among the vendors room and bought a piece of brass and some other rolling stock. That evening was highlighted by a wild and wonderful trip to three layouts as mentioned by Jerry. (Side note: Jerry has been inspired to perhaps model catenary now.) Saturday morning was the business meeting as mentioned by Jerry. Unknowing to me, my father is now vice president. Peg Stanley said that makes me the Assistant of Vice, or Vice Assistant. That evening was the dinner with a wonderful presentation as noted by jerry. Also, to my suprise i magaed to get 3rd in the model competiton for freight cars. (Side Note: I believe pictures of all models will be posted online sometime.) Sunday Morning my father and I packed and checked out. We then left for the tour of CETC at 30th street and the platform where the Acela trainsets are maintained in Penn Coach yard. CETC was very interesting even for the meager amount of traffic on a sunday. A highlight was taking ictures of the main concourse from the 30th street breezeway at the fifth floor. Then the group was escorted to Penn Coach yard where we were allowed to take pictures of all the equipment. We were allowed to do hands on inspection of one of two trainsets and ask any questions with the technicians that were working. After arriving back at the hotel dad and I did what you should always do in philly. Eat a cheesesteak! went to Paul Backenstoses layout and drove home. Overall, I had a great time for my fuirst convention and am thorougly looking forwatrd to Cinncinatti. -John Frantz P.S. Jerry failed to mention the he got an unused MP54 whistle at the banquet as a door prize. lol. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 20:25:52 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Report From: "Jerry @ Pennsy" I'm not sure if Juniata Terminal was in the right place in the program...shouldn't it have been under "layout tours"? ;-) Thanks for the show, Bennett and Eric! On Sunday, May 4, 2003, at 08:09 PM, John Frantz wrote: > Friday morning, i took the trip to Bennet's Juniata Terminal: Fairhill > Division. On the way to the terminal we were given an unplanned > cultural tour of North Philadelphia since the bus driver managed to > get semi-lost. All things conmsidered, once we arrived we were greeted > with idling E8's and SW-1500's. The switchers were painted in Bennet's > unmistakable JUNIATA paint scheme. The 120 and recentlt completed > parlor/lounge car WARRIOR RIDGE were on display with the Pralor car > open for exhibition. Coupled to the SW-1500's was an N5C in a > east-west pool service scheme. Besides the road equipment, two mobile > cranes were also on display for pictures. THANK YOU BENNET! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 20:29:29 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Report From: "Jerry @ Pennsy" On Sunday, May 4, 2003, at 08:09 PM, John Frantz wrote: > P.S. Jerry failed to mention the he got an unused MP54 whistle at the > banquet as a door prize. lol. I NEVER win in the raffle...but this year I was like the fourth or fifth ticket pulled. Yes, I got an unused, near mint condition whistle that was labeled as being for an MP54. First, I hate MP54's. I think they are ugly. Not "butt ugly", as that is reserved for the P5's. (Sorry, Bruce, had to jag you!) Whistle looked cool, and I suppose any whistle is a good whistle. Besides, I will have MP54's on my layout. I'll get it set up with CO2, but I don't know if it'll be in the train room or outside -- to call the kids for dinner! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 20:57:22 -0400 Subject: [PRR] June Model Railroader From: "Jerry @ Pennsy" Received the June Model Railroader while I was at the convention. Two important points: 1) In the editorial, Terry Thompson lists "Trains I'd Like to See". He writes "A pair from the Pennsy - a K4 Pacific and an L1 Mike, in HO and N. The Bowser and Bachmann HO K4 models aren't bad, but DCC and sound would make a good thing better. And if you're making a K4, why not an L1? The Pennsy was industrial America at its most heroic." (page 6) 2) The preview for the June issue of Trains (page 107) indicates that the "Railroad Blueprint" section will feature "PRR's Sunnyside Yard. The complete inside story and detailed track diagram of the world's largest passenger car yard in 1956. Perfect for the urban modeler!" Good month for PRR coverage. Does anyone on the list model portions of Sunnyside? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 21:00:03 -0400 Subject: [PRR] MP54 Whistle From: "Jerry @ Pennsy" Anyone know what range of pressure should be applied for an MP54 whistle? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Cooper" Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Report Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 22:03:03 -0700 Last time I was east, the entire Bryn Mawr interlocking had a 30 mph speed restriction due to poor track maintainence (due to lack of funds?). I take it this has been remedied? John > >Back to layout tours today. Bruce Smith joined Dave Wartell and I. We >had breakfast out and then checked out a few of the main line stations >west of ZOO. We were at Bryn Mawr when an eastbound Amtrak >(Pennsylvanian?) came through at a about 60 mph. We were on the >platform behind the yellow line, which put us only about three feet >from the side of the train. What a rush! Surprised they allow this kind >of speed vs. pedestrian access. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 01:09:56 -0400 From: Rob Schoenberg Subject: [PRR] Withers Diesel Pictorial Volume 8... Hi all, Picked up Vol 8 (EMD GP7, GP9, SD7 and SD9's) of the Withers diesel pictorial series at the PRRT&HS convention over the weekend. This volume is pretty much the same great stuff as the previous volumes. The majority of the coverage is on the GP's with 88 pages and only 11 on the SD's but based on quantity of units the PRR owned, this makes sense... Did anyone else on the list buy a copy yet? If so, are all the pages in the right order? My copy has a few sections stapled in out of order. Just wondering if it's just mine that's messed up! Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 01:32:08 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Withers Diesel Pictorial Volume 8... The one I picked up from Withers at the convention has the pages messed up like yours. They are all there just out of order. ----------- Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 06:44:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Withers Diesel Pictorial Volume 8... I bought the book also. Great book but the page numbers are really mixed up. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] MP54 Whistle Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 08:01:05 -0400 Now Jerry, Why would you want to know that? ;) I thought you hated MP54s Congrats though on your new acquisition! Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: Jerry @ Pennsy [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 9:00 PM To: PRR-talk Subject: [PRR] MP54 Whistle Anyone know what range of pressure should be applied for an MP54 whistle? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] MP54 Whistle Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 08:06:26 -0400 Oops! This is what happens when you get back to 120 emails and start reading from the end forward! Didn't see till after I sent that he already annonced he won it. Chris -----Original Message----- From: Chany, Christopher Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 8:01 AM To: 'Jerry @ Pennsy'; PRR-talk Subject: RE: [PRR] MP54 Whistle Now Jerry, Why would you want to know that? ;) I thought you hated MP54s Congrats though on your new acquisition! Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: Jerry @ Pennsy [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 9:00 PM To: PRR-talk Subject: [PRR] MP54 Whistle Anyone know what range of pressure should be applied for an MP54 whistle? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bud Kaiser" Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Report Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 08:16:40 -0400 This was my first PRRT&HS National Convention and I had a great time, especially placing faces with names that we all see the time here on the PRR-Talk list. Jerry's report was a good synopsis of the meeting but I would like to add a comment on the excellent presentation and model display that Elden Gatwood had on PRR gons. His presentation showed both prototype and model pictures of most of the PRR's gon classes and he also brought along more that a dozen of the models that we all drooled over in the model contest room. His clinic handout provided information on 54 classes and subclasses on basic construction of the prototype and how to model each particular car. Elden has stated several times that he is just an average modeler, but his model presentation showed just the opposite. Really great looking models and I know many people went away salivating after looking at his display. Thanks Elden for a super presentation and model display and for a chance to talk to you about your construction techniques. Bud Kaiser ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 08:30:18 -0400 Subject: Elden's Gon Handout - Re: [PRR] Convention Report From: Jerry Britton On 5/5/03 8:16 AM, Bud Kaiser (bkaiser@voicenet.com) wrote: > His clinic handout provided information on 54 classes and > subclasses on basic construction of the prototype and how to model each > particular car. Elden: Any chance we could post your handout on Keystone Crossings in PDF format? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 09:02:43 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Gondola Modeling Handout Posted From: Jerry Britton On the Modeling page of Keystone Crossings you will now find a PDF of Elden's handout on modeling PRR gondolas. Al Buchan, incoming president of the society, provided me with it in Word format. Thank you. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 08:49:45 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] Request for convention report Howdy folks...I rolled back in about 8:30 central last night after another great convention (Kudos to the Philly Chapter and especially Al and Tina G!). We had a ton of fun, including elevator roulette!!! Next year in Cincy sounds incredible...make plans now...no excuses!!!!! Doug asks: >How does the Westerfield X23 look? Bob adds: >Any comments on the Westerfield X23? Al had three different kits there...original roof with plate door, original roof with replacement door, and replacement roof (lap seam?) and door. I bought 2 of each to complete my fleet of X23s!! The kit is spectacular. The details on the body casting are pretty amazing and the bodies are one piece as has been mentioned. Al pointed out to me that the bracing overlapped correctly at the top and bottom of the car. All three cars are vertical sheathed with the clamp boards at the bottom. The resin in mine was still "outgassing"...(I LOVE the smell of resin in the morning) Jerry said: >There was an awesome diorama of a three stall roundhouse cutaway >showing a T1 and another loco being serviced. HO scale. I believe this >is what won "Best of Show". Matthew Hurst (of this list), a young whippersnapper of a modeler built the diorama from the Grif Teller painting of such!!! Stunning. Tom Hayden (also of this list) won best HO steam with his $60 highly modified Pennline/Bowser T1 Keith Thompson had an S scale resin H21 from his own masters, Craig Bossler (sp?) had an H21D covered hopper (you can always count on Craig to have a weird one). Keith and I fell down this year as neither of us brought an electric, and therefore there were NONE on display. Walt Stafa had a crawler crane on a a GRA, and I had my wreck train, as well as my crawler/FXL/FM project. Frankly, the model room was packed, and there wasn't enough time to see it all, especially if you stood and drooled at Ed's live steam T1!! The vendor room was a little disappointing this year. For some reason, it felt sparser than last, and aside from Bob's photos, and the Westerfileds, most of the vendors seemed to be having a slow convention...I managed to pick up some back issues of the Keystone, and the 1940's passenger train consist book along with my Westerfield ktis. There wasn't really anything "new" there except the X23. Nick Seamen (Middle Div) did have some O scale FOM decals, but is apparently having trouble getting a printer for his work. The seminars were also very good. To Jerry's list of standouts I would add Tom Flagg's talk on PRR in New York Harbor...this talk, as well as the F unit talk and both of Ken's talks about tower operation could have easily been two hours instead of one! For me, one of the highlights of the convention was the layout tours...too many good layouts!!! As a "virgin" for these, I was in "shock and awe". Standouts for me were: Bennet and Eric Levin's 1:1 trains Bill Kachel's inclined catenary...WOW!!!!! Ken McCorry's space...we followed one train end to end...it took 1 hour, 22 minutes and my feet were TIRED! We need to get him back to PRR and out of Conjobs... Ken Rideout's pristine layout room...you could eat off the floors, and the carpentry and craftsmanship of the benchwork and trackwork were gorgeous...almost hate to cover it with scenery!!! He also had everything organized and in its place (although I'm told the work crew STILL manages to lose things!). BTW, the layout is fantastic too!!! As Jerry mentioned, we did some railfanning on the mainline yesterday AM. One big find was a section of PRR 3 pipe fence in the underpass at the west end of the Wynwood station...with a couple of 2 pipe stanchions in the middle as replacements! The middle pipe lay on top of the bottom hole and the bottom pipe was suspended by a piece of rebar welded onto the middle pipe. The same underpass showed us that the superelevated track crossing above (evident in the height of the ends of the ties of adjacent tracks) was at least in part due to the bridge footings being built with the superelevation BUILT IN! That is that the steel work rested on ANGLED abutments...giving the abutment a "notched" appearance. Very interesting indeed (model THAT!) Oh yeah, Jerry confirmed with his own eyes that there is a significant grade for westbounds out of Philly towards Paoli. Another GREAT convention! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 09:50:09 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Aerial Shots of ZOO From: Jerry Britton Yesterday while running around on layout tours, having just left Ken Rideout's, we were driving east on 76 along the river. There was some kind of walk-a-thon taking place, and News 6 was giving tethered balloon rides from inside the Zoo. There was a huge gondola on the balloon. Taking parking and admissions costs into mind, waiting in line, and other planned schedules, we passed. But it occurred to us that while most people were going up and looking east at the city and north at boat house row, a few of us might be looking south and down and snapping a roll of film (or memory card) full of shots of ZOO interlocking! Would have been perfect height and angle! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 09:59:44 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Bowser B6 0-6-0 From: Jerry Britton Not intended as a sales pitch, but as a public service announcement... Bowser has assigned a part number and set pricing on their forthcoming B6 steam locomotive. It will be a deluxe kit and is expected "summer 2003". New pics are on Bowser's site as well as on the advance reservation page of Merchandise Service ( http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/ms_ar.html ). ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 09:22:39 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] FOM (once more) >Does anyone know the year the PRR abandoned the FOM scheme? A question >has arisen on the Passenger Car list. It is claimed that the ACL >painted cars in that scheme in 1949 for service in the Southwind. I >thought FOM was dead by then. >-- >Regards, > >Andy Miller >asmiller@mitre.org Andy, Larry Goolsby's book "Atlantic Coast Line Passenger Service; the Postwar Years" shows two photos of ACL cars in FOM. On page 129 is the following quote" "Around 1949, No. 209 was painted in Pennsylvania's Tuscan red with imitation gold striping and serif lettering for expanded South Wind service. FEC contributed at least one such coach too, the Boca Raton." Notably, the PHOTO show an FOM scheme on 209, but that caption isn't NEARLY as clear in the description . The second photo is on the rear cover and is in color. Both are credited to ACL and show #209 on a transfer table with brand new paint. FOM was definitely longer lived than Futura...In the Octararo Branch book there is a photo of an FOM combine on the branch in 1945. As noted by others, FOM cars continued to show up into the late 40s... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 10:44:59 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser B6 0-6-0 A deluxe kit with an NMRA coupler? ;-) A switcher with no coupler on the pilot?? :-( Hopefully this is a pilot and installing Kadee compatibles at both ends is an anticipated option for the builder. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > Not intended as a sales pitch, but as a public service announcement... > > Bowser has assigned a part number and set pricing on their forthcoming B6 > steam locomotive. It will be a deluxe kit and is expected "summer 2003". > > New pics are on Bowser's site as well as on the advance reservation page of > Merchandise Service ( http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/ms_ar.html ). > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 11:28:48 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Blowers at Tunnel Hill From: Jerry Britton We previously discussed the blowers at Tunnel Hill, but never came to a conclusion as to when the steam power plant there was replaced by the diesel power plant. During the convention, I visited Ken Ridout's layout. He is modeling this area in HO and had numerous photos of the diesel plant and the photos were all marked 1947 on the back. So it appears that the diesel facility was definitely in place by my modeling timeframe of 1954. I am very thankful to Ken as he allowed me to digitally photograph his photos and they came out well. Not only that, but my digital macro/zoom allowed me to do on-the-spot enlargements of specific details! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 11:59:33 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Convention Photos From: Jerry Britton I've posted 58 digital photos from the convention. They are at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/photos/ Search on Keyword = "PRRT&HS 2003". (without the quotes) There are photos of Bill Kachel's layout, several stations on the main line, and Ken Rideout's layout. I did not photograph the layouts of Charlie Corangi, Ken McCorry, or Charlie Grant, as I had previously done that and they are already in the Photo database. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 12:50:56 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Report From: Jerry Britton On 5/5/03 1:03 AM, John Cooper (johncoop@ix.netcom.com) wrote: > Last time I was east, the entire Bryn Mawr interlocking had a 30 mph speed > restriction due to poor track maintainence (due to lack of funds?). I take > it this has been remedied? I don't know about remedied, but that train was a hell of a lot faster than 30 mph! I posted a photo of it entering the interlocking limits. My digital camera saved it and I tried to take another. I got one big blur of the side of the lead locomotive. I was standing just behind the yellow line, so I must have been only three feet from the loco. And there was no barrier. Just one hell of a rush of air. Despite being in an "allowed" area, I opted to step back further for the rest of the consist! Bruce, Dave, and I did note that they are still using sectional rail on all four tracks through Bryn Mawr. At our other stops (east) there was welded rail on tracks 1, 3 and 4. Track 2 was still "snap track" sections for some reason. > > John > > >> >> Back to layout tours today. Bruce Smith joined Dave Wartell and I. We >> had breakfast out and then checked out a few of the main line stations >> west of ZOO. We were at Bryn Mawr when an eastbound Amtrak >> (Pennsylvanian?) came through at a about 60 mph. We were on the >> platform behind the yellow line, which put us only about three feet >> from the side of the train. What a rush! Surprised they allow this kind >> of speed vs. pedestrian access. >> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 13:10:33 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Withers PRR Diesels Volume Eight From: Jerry Britton Even more reports are coming in about Withers "PRR Diesels Volume Eight" having pages out of order. It "may" be possible that the entire run was assembled incorrectly. At this point I am somewhat grateful that I wasn't selling them (only Withers was) so I don't have to deal with returns! (We have taken reservations and will check page order before shipping once they do arrive.) For those with "bad books", Withers has a web site at http://www.witherspublishing.com ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 13:19:27 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Convention Wrap Up From: Jerry Britton Al: As chair of the Philadelphia Convention, please accept a note of gratitude from the members of the "PRR-talk" list who attended. Pass on our thanks to all chapter members who played a role in this year's edition of the event. It was well-planned, well-managed, and seemed to come off without a hitch. It was especially interesting that you arranged for the elevators to feel like you were riding in MP54's!!! Okay, maybe you didn't arrange that!!! I want to particularly commend Charlie Horan for the management of the vendor room. The special badges, the enforcement of "vendors only" during setup times, and the security was appreciated. Your group has set high standards that others will need to strive to meet or exceed. Thank you for doing so. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 13:20:15 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: [PRR] Amtrak rail Jerry Britton wrote: >Bruce, Dave, and I did note that they are still using sectional rail on all >four tracks through Bryn Mawr. At our other stops (east) there was welded >rail on tracks 1, 3 and 4. Track 2 was still "snap track" sections for some >reason. > I rode an Amtrak Keystone Service train to Philly en route to the convention. It's still mostly stick rail between Middletown and Lancaster, and the welded rail east of Lancaster isn't all that smooth (I gave up trying to write notes on some work I'd brought along). Supposedly this will be remedied under the $140 million capital program that PennDOT and Amtrak agreed upon several years ago but which has been stalled because Amtrak has had problems coming up with its $70 million share. PennDOT came up with its half, but Amtrak under David Gunn is only now emerging from its previous practices of generating creative accounting lies and keeping multiple sets of books. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alex Charyna" Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Report Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 09:26:13 -0800 > of the lead locomotive. I was standing just behind the yellow line, so I > must have been only three feet from the loco. And there was no barrier. Just > one hell of a rush of air. Despite being in an "allowed" area, I opted to > step back further for the rest of the consist! On the NEC, if you sit in the shelter during a passing train, the rush of wind will bend the "glass" quite a fair amount. Good thing it's plastic. That's running on the inside tracks. You do have warning though... The track "sings" a couple of seconds before the train passes you. Occasionally, Amtrak will run on the outside tracks, then it's *really* dramatic. -alex ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 13:35:58 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Report From: Jerry Britton On 5/5/03 1:26 PM, Alex Charyna (alex@arclyte.com) wrote: >> of the lead locomotive. I was standing just behind the yellow line, so I >> must have been only three feet from the loco. And there was no barrier. > Just >> one hell of a rush of air. Despite being in an "allowed" area, I opted to >> step back further for the rest of the consist! > > On the NEC, if you sit in the shelter during a passing train, the rush of > wind > will bend the "glass" quite a fair amount. Good thing it's plastic. > That's running on the inside tracks. > You do have warning though... The track "sings" a couple of seconds before > the > train passes you. > > Occasionally, Amtrak will run on the outside tracks, then it's *really* > dramatic. > In this case it was on the outside track...track one. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 13:38:19 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: [PRR] ADVISORY from Withers Publishing regarding replacements for Greetings to all: Publisher Paul Withers has checked several cases of the new Withers Publishing PRR Diesel Volume 8 Geep books and all seem to be misbound, on account of an error at the bindery. We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused for readers, researchers, or model railroaders. A new press run will have to be done. If you purchased a Geep book, please contact Paul Withers in one of the following ways to arrange for a replacement: * e-mail at witherspub@aol.com * phone at 717-896-3173 * snail-mail at 528 Dunkel School Road, Halifax, PA 17032 Thanks for your patience and understanding, adn for your continued support of the PRR diesel series. Dan Cupper, managing editor, Diesel Era magazine and Withers Publishing ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 13:47:46 -0400 From: Al Buchan Subject: RE: [PRR] Convention Wrap Up Jerry, et al., Thanx for your kind comments. It makes doing things worthwhile when getting positive feedback. Yes the elevators were like a trip on an MP54 or on anything for that matter that was running over bad track. I must say though that I was not really the overall chairman, I only ran the programs and got the HO scale layout guys. Al Giannantonio, Chapter Prez, was the overall chair coordinating all of the separate interest groups. But I will certainly pass this message to all concerned. And thanx for all who attended, it was good seeing old friends again, putting faces to online names and meeting new people. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 13:54:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Wrap Up From: Jerry Britton On 5/5/03 1:47 PM, Al Buchan (abbuchan1@comcast.net) wrote: > Thanx for your kind comments. It makes doing things worthwhile when > getting positive feedback. Yes the elevators were like a trip on an MP54 > or on anything for that matter that was running over bad track. > > I must say though that I was not really the overall chairman, I only ran > the programs and got the HO scale layout guys. Al Giannantonio, Chapter > Prez, was the overall chair coordinating all of the separate interest > groups. But I will certainly pass this message to all concerned. Al: The message was sent to Al G., with a copy to PRR-talk. Suppose I should have started the message with "Al G:". Sorry you misunderstood. Your support is appreciated as well, however. Best wishes for your tenure as prez! > > And thanx for all who attended, it was good seeing old friends again, > putting faces to online names and meeting new people. > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: RE: [PRR] Gondola Modeling and Conference Thanks Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 11:24:03 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C31333.81CEF630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Jerry and all; I just got back late last night. Thanks to all for a great time. Jerry, thanks for posting the list. It is the Society's property now, so Al was the person to say "yes". Several people asked me about it and unfortunately my folder of additional handouts had gone missing after the presentation. To those that missed, I apologize for the scheduling conflicts. There just seem to be too many things to do in too little time, and so some overlap appeared to be unavoidable. I am sorry that I didn't get to talk to a greater number of you. I was still assembling the presentation up until showtime and had some other things I needed to take care of afterward. All the conversations I had were great and I appreciated all the folks I got to chat with. I greatly enjoyed talking to those of you that did not get to go on the layout tours. And Bud, thanks for the kind words about my models. But did you SEE some of the models there? Craig's H21d was astounding. And Jack's G31c and G31e are the best PRR gons I've ever seen. I am still in awe. Congrats to not only the winners, but all that contributed their models. I know many that did not receive recognition should have. This year was sure better than others, and I'm counting on the Cincy group to bring theirs in 2004. For those that asked, I do not think that the gon modeling materiel is the right thing for the Keystone. It is, after all, not a modeling magazine. And all the info would be too much. I will, however, get the details out there one way or another. I was quite serious that this whole thing is do-able and achievable by anyone that puts the time in. If I could put together 12 gons in 5 months, including two scratchbuilds, then anyone could. I am notoriously fumble-fingered, so the "skills" thing is NO excuse. In the meantime, feel free to drop me a line and I will try to answer your questions. And one final heartfelt thanks once again to Jack Consoli and Larry Kline. I couldn't have done it without you. Elden Gatwood --